The Iced Coffee Hour - Destiny on Debating Ben Shapiro, Toxic Wokeism and Getting Divorced

Episode Date: February 11, 2024

NETSUITE: Take advantage of NetSuite’s FREE KPI checklist: https://www.netsuite.com/ICED ORACLE: Free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/iced COLLECTIVE: Get your onboarding fee waived when you visit https://collective.com/ich and tell them ICH sent you Follow Destiny here: https://www.youtube.com/@UC554eY5jNUfDq3yDOJYirOQ Tier List: https://tiermaker.com/create/the-iced-coffee-hour---destiny-16744855 NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Time Stamps: 0:00 - Intro 1:10 - Destiny Addresses the Ben Shapiro Debate 8:29 - Jordan Peterson Interview Spoilers (UNRELEASED) 11:38 - Eating Crickets: A Climate Fix? 13:03 - The Dangers of Political Ideologies in 2024 17:30 - Do Ben Shapiro & Jordan Peterson Have BAD Political Intentions? 25:23 - “Anybody Who Supports Trump is F***ing CRAZY” 32:59 - Political Ideologies Are Dangerous, Think For Yourself 38:35 - No More Excuses. Take Responsibility For Your Life. 45:59 - Destiny Opens Up About His ADHD 1:01:51 - Defining Political Labels: Leftist, Liberal, Progressive 1:05:30 - Destiny’s WILD 🍄 Story 1:09:53 - The Cultural Shift: Why Are People Becoming More Conservative? 1:17:02 - Destiny Breaks Down the “Jeffrey Epstein Case” 1:19:57 - Destiny Explains the Trump Indictments 1:27:15 - Is Modern Media Failing America? 1:39:32 - Destiny on The Border Crisis 1:47:12 - Destiny’s Big Business Deals and Investing Strategy 1:51:33 - Debate: Go to College vs Don’t Go to College 2:11:56 - Destiny’s Thoughts on the F.I.R.E. Movement 2:21:14 - Progressive Penalties: The $80,000 Speeding Ticket?! 2:24:24 - Destiny Talks About His Divorce & Open Relationships 2:38:23 - TIER LIST: Destiny Ranks 33 Political Figures 2:51:04 - Closing Thoughts *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. Anybody that supports Donald Trump, I think is crazy. And that's like 85% of Republicans right now. Why do you like Trump over Biden? Well, Trump did way better with the economy. What did Trump do for the economy? Uh, tax cuts. They like Trump because he represents a real anger that people have.

And they want to break. And Trump is a guy saying, I'll break it for you. Is that the best president in my entire lifetime in the United States? For a lot of people, life just works better on rails. There are people who it's like, if you throw them into the wind, they are lost. The Republican Party is on the verge of Congress. collapse. Stephen Bonnell, aka Destiny, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour.

You're one of the biggest streamers across all platforms. You've appeared on podcasts like PBD podcast. You've debated Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro. That was a recent debate that blew up. It's like 6 million views in a week. Jordan Peterson recently, that hasn't came out yet. We're going to talk about this. Fresh and fit, whatever pod.

You've debated basically everybody, which I admire a lot. Some people call you Ben Shapiro of the left because you talk very fast and you're incredibly intelligent. By some people, you mean the title you put on my YouTube video, okay? You should have called him the destiny of the right. Did you feel okay by that? Was that all right by you? Okay, cool.

Well, thank you so much for coming on, man. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. So the Ben Shapiro debate. This is, I feel like, what everyone's been talking about. It's highly anticipated. We brought it up to you if you would debate, Ben. You said yes, that clip went viral.

We brought it up to Ben when we had him on if he would debate you. He said, yes, that clip went viral. How did this all come about? I'm kind of friendly, friends, friendly with Lex and. I think I did a Jubilee show and Jubilee asked me at the end, could you film like a call out to Ben Shapiro and maybe we could host it. Lex saw that and Lex was like, hey, do you think I could get this debate and I love Jubilee, but Lex is like the guy that would let me have a two to three hour uninterrupted conversation. Jubilee will shoot three hours of

content and they cut it down like 45 minutes. And I just feel like Lex's platform would have been really good for that. So I was like, yeah, if you think you can get the debate, then go for it. And then Lex did a bunch of work in the background and he, yeah, got the debate. Was that hard to schedule with Ben? Probably. But Lex said all of that. facilitated all of it. Yeah. Were you nervous for the debate with Ben? Not particularly, no.

How did you prepare for that? Did you just go in or did they give you topics to talk about and you could research them? I think it was going to be a pretty broad conversation. So we went over, it must have been like 10 topics in like two hours. And a lot of the Trump-related stuff is more, I'm just kind of like curious because it's such an easy topic on my end and such an indefensible topic on their end. I'm just more curious like how are you going to try to navigate this particular thing. But I've been doing a lot of political stuff for the past like four to six months now ever since

I started Vibance and stopped talking to Red Pillar. So yeah, my brand has been pretty plugged in politically. So I felt like pretty okay to go on. I am. Interesting. You think that Trump stuff is indefensible. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Easily. Well, I just think that like half of the nation, well, not half, but a pretty, what is it, 40% approval rating for Trump? I know that the conservative approval rating is always very, very, very, very high. Yeah. My general thought is that I feel like it's somewhat defensible, 40% of the general population is somewhat in support of something.

But that's beside the point. I think I find for the, Trump stuff, I would just say, most people just don't know the facts of anything that have happened. So when you don't know the facts, you think that like, oh, yeah, well, people are indicting him for no reason. Everybody hates him for no reason. People say he still the election for no reason. They try to say there's an insurrection for no reason. But when you actually lay out all the facts, then it's like, okay, oof. But if you go up against Ben Shapiro, I mean, his whole thing is like facts. At least that's what he claims. So don't you think he would at least have a different angle to attack.

He criticizes Trump. Trump a lot. The thing is Ben Shapiro took, this is the funny part is that when you go to the people that know, their defenses start to look, in my opinion, very wacky. So Ben Shapiro's defense of Trump was that he graves him on a big curve. So he gives him a lot of leeway and that Trump would try to take over the government as a dictator, which he tried to do. But Ben feels like the guardrails are strong enough that he won't be able to do it even if he tries a second time. So it's more of an admission than like most people will make. I find that insane.

Do you think Ben was the hardest debate you've ever had? Probably not, but not because it was a dumb debate or not because he didn't know anything. But just because it was just kind of like surface level on everything. We kind of like hit topics and then move to the next one on kind of a surface level way. So I'm sure if we had like a two or three hour conversation on like one or two topics, it would be far more challenging. Would you prefer that to go deeper on each topic? Because I noticed it seems as though some of these topics are only like 10, 15 minutes long. They give you a few minutes, him a few minutes, another few minutes between both of you.

And then it was on to the next. There was a part where Ben was like, here let me actually draw this out for you. And he looks for like a pen and a piece of paper to be able to draw this. line curve of job production between like Joe Biden and Donald Trump. But then Lex was like, oh, we got to like take this back. We're getting a little too granular. Yeah, I would definitely prefer that.

But it's also like it's like a first conversation. So you have to buy a little bit of trust with the other person. I think it was a I think it was a conversation for a first conversation. Are you going to have another one? Hopefully. We'll see. There's nothing like what's different when you debate Ben versus somebody else? Nothing.

I try to take a similar approach to everybody in that like there's a dynamic approach depending on the person that I'm talking to, how radical or not radical they are, how reasonable or not reasonable they are, how much of a showman they are versus how much of a sick of the facts kind of person they are. So Ben, I'll have like a unique approach to Ben, but it all stems out from like the same type

of dynamic approach I think to everybody. The one thing that you mentioned in that debate that I did notice, and I noticed a lot of people doing this, is you would make a point and they would counter that point by not addressing the point, but saying, well, we shouldn't focus on this,

we should focus on all these other things. How do you navigate something like that and get someone back to the point. It seems like a lot of times they'll avoid the point entirely. Well, there are two different concepts you're talking about that sounds similar, but they're totally different. In terms of policy, that was the one that I was focused on with Ben and that I feel like sometimes conservatives will, I call it like the conservative merry-go-round. Or anytime you want to address a thing, they want to address another thing. Or if you want to make an incremental change somewhere, they'll say, we can't do that incremental change because it doesn't fix everything.

So we should only focus on this. and that's very frustrating to me. So for instance, you might say something like red flag laws for firearms, the ability to flag people and say, this guy's probably a danger. Maybe we should do something about it. They'll say, like, oh, well, that doesn't fix gang violence. So we shouldn't do this. It's like, okay.

Or I think the examples that we're going through in that conversation, we're in schools, I think air conditioning and food availability are like two of like the easiest most data-driven, helpful things to children in school. And that would be a thing that could help a little bit. But Ben's point, which is true is that, well, this is going to fix the schools. I'm like, well, of course not. but it helps. Well, we need to fix like families or whatever, right?

And I feel like anytime you want to focus on like a particular problem or try to help in an incremental way, conservatives will hop back one or two steps to go, well, it doesn't fix everything. So we need to do this radical society-changing thing like enforcing shotgun marriages. I think was his social. Yeah. Okay. Well, this feels. Recommending shotgun marriages.

Recommending. But I will say that's different than in a debate when somebody won't ever address a point you're bringing up, which I don't think Ben ever did that. I don't think he like avoided addressing a particular point, yeah. What I thought was really interesting is. it sounded honestly kind of like a therapy session of like two like a like a wife and a husband that have been together for a super long time and they're having struggles in the relationship like you would say man i just feel like conservatives always do this they do the conservative merry go around and they don't attack the issues where they have the control and then ben was like i feel like

liberals always ignore the iceberg they're just focused on the thing that's above the water line when there's this whole massive problem underneath it and it was really funny just like the the difference and i don't know yeah the reality is you have to come at it from both ends but anytime you talk to somebody in the left or the right, they only want to address their end and then vent their frustrations about the other end, which is very frustrating. So anytime you try to bring somebody a little bit over to the middle where it's like, yeah, the family structure is incredibly important, obviously for a whole bunch of different predictive things in society. But also there's incremental changes you can make in schools too. We can do both. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It can be both, but people get really hung up on their particular thing. Who do you think won the debate? I don't know. I mean, like I said, I don't think it was like a huge debate. I think we kind of like bounce through topics. I don't think that we, yeah, resolutely concluded on a particular thing where it's like, you're wrong about schools or you're wrong about Trump or you're wrong about whatever. It was just kind of our different perspectives in terms of how we viewed those things. What do you think Ben would say? Do you think he would say he won?

I don't know, maybe. I'm not sure. I feel like people on the left would probably say you won. People on the right would probably say he won. Maybe, yeah, depends. Some people on the left will say I won because my points were better on like Trump or something. or they'll say I lost because I needed to push him way harder on other things. And I'm sure there are people on the right that say, oh, Ben crushed him because he said the things of that they agree with.

And there might be some people on the right. It was like, Ben didn't do as good because he should have crushed him on these points or whatever. You posted on Twitter yesterday that you finally dressed up for a podcast or interview. And it was a photo of you and Jordan Peterson. Yeah. I want to know how that conversation went. Was it more of a debate or a conversation that's not released yet because it was just filmed yesterday. I'm assuming this is probably going to be released before that.

Maybe we could get some teasers. Some teasers. I didn't expect her to stand up. We got into a physical fight. about 45 minutes in, which was crazy. It's hard to say who won exactly because he, no, I'm just kidding. Yeah. It was definitely, it went from like conversation to like debate to conversation to debate to conversation.

I think I was pretty happy with the level of combativeness. He seems like he's somebody that's able to ratchet it up and then kind of like bring it back a little bit and not be completely unhinged. I'll say there was like a 30 minute section on climate change, which I wish I could have been more prepared for it because I was not ready for it to be a debate on climate change. He asked me for an example of like, like in capitalism, do you know what an externality is? Yeah. Okay. So when you're trying to deal with a policy, you might do a particular thing or there might be a thing that happens and there's an external effect that's not accounted for in your system. Sure.

So like pollution, in my opinion, that's like the go-to good example of an externality, right? If you pollute a ton, you'd have to pay for it. So that's external to your system and it's not factored into the cost. And as soon as I brought that up as an example, like, oh, well, here's an externality where government can help sometimes. then it was like, okay, well, the WEF and they're trying to make a seed bugs, and Bill Gates and billionaires, and the global elite, and the UN are all trying to do this. And I'm like, oh, Jesus. And then we did like a 30-minute thing on climate change.

So, yeah. Why does he go from pollution to the World Economic Forum and all these other places? Like, what is their involvement in that? As Graham and I definitely know, and you may know, too, that running a business is incredibly challenging. And trying to stay organized with a bunch of different spreadsheets and softwares can oftentimes end up taking more energy than what it's worth. But with today's sponsor NetSuite, all you have. to do is remember these three numbers. 37,000, 25, and 1. 37,000, because that's how many companies have switched to NetSuite and stop doing things like typing in manual data entry and searching

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Again, for free, netsuite.com slash iced. Graham, did I hear that correctly, net suite.com slash iced? The link is also down below in the description. Thank you so much, NetSuite, and back to the episode. Why does he go from pollution to the World Economic Forum and all these other places? Like, what is their involvement in that? What is he saying that they're doing that's negatively affecting society? I mean, I get the eating bugs thing.

I've looked into this. It seems very interesting. It seems like crickets are a good source of protein. Oh, boy. You could feed a lot of people. You disagree? No, I just, you're going to get these people in your comment section now. I feel like it's not controversial.

It's like, this seems like a thing. Like, I don't know about the crickets. Can you elaborate? Crickets are like the highest. source of protein that you could get. What does that have to do with W.A.F? I don't quite know. How much it eat bugs?

Yeah, I guess they're like Bill Gates and the WEF, and this is like some high level, I don't quite know, is seeming to think that we should force people to eat bugs. That way you'll own nothing and be happy. Exactly, but it's a way that you could feed the planet. The amount of waste that goes... Methane from cows. Exactly, from cows or raising meat is so absurdly high,

but you need that for certain vitamins and proteins. And you get the same thing with crickets for a fraction of the cost. You could grow crickets anywhere. They reproduce very quickly. I guess it's the idea. But we haven't tried this on large scale yet. You know what I mean? Like what if we start having these crazy cricket colonies and they start gaining intelligence

and then take over the human. We just don't know. I don't know. I think if you want to solve a lot of hunger is probably crickets. It's probably insects. I think people are going to come up with like a class problem. You know what I'm with that? Like the people on the bottom are just like, you know, eating crickets.

Crickets while the people on the top get like... Look at lobster, though. Lobster used to be like the cockroach of the sea. Lobster did not use to be the culinary luxury that is now. So crickets are getting into a delicacy? They could be. We don't know this. But lobster is now a delicacy.

And beforehand, it would be like, you eat lobster that's like for peasants. I'm seeing a lot of things have changed. Interesting. But what are your thoughts on that? This is where I'm at right now for political stuff. I think that probably it's probably true for everything, actually. but you know how you might have like 10 or 15 different beliefs. You might think a thing about climate change.

You might think a thing about vaccines. You might think a thing about the presidency. I think people like to have this idea that they have rational justifications for all of their different beliefs. But I think what actually happens is I think there's like constellations of belief systems. And they just inherit these from whatever social group you're in. And when you go into that social group and you inherit the constellation of beliefs, all of these beliefs kind of sort of implicitly rest on every other belief. And it's not really changeable.

because if you pull out like one thing, it's like a jenga tower, it all collapses. So when you talk to somebody, unfortunately, today, about a particular subject, because of how homogenous and how huge these, like, political groups have gotten, I think you can make a lot of predictions about things that they believe about other things,

and it all just kind of goes together. So if I ask you, for instance, about what you think about Andrew Tate, if you think that in Romania, if you think that the charges are trumped up and it's not fair what they're doing to Andrew Tate, you probably also believe that the WF is trying to control.

your life. You probably also think the UN is like a corrupt organization. You probably think that we should support Russia over Ukraine and the war. You probably support of Donald Trump. You probably think the MRI vaccines were rushed and are making us unhealthy. You probably like there's like third you probably think like trans people are fake. There's like 20 different beliefs that like everybody inherits just on their social groups. And that's how I feel about so when climate change comes up. Well obviously this is the ruling global elite billionaire class that's trying to force us to they'll quote that one article. Own nothing and be happy. So we're a runner society. They all want to eat crickets. It's, yeah, Klaus Schwab.

Oh, don't even get me started. Right. It's always that type of thing, I think, yeah. That's really interesting. Chris Williamson brought this up when we collaborated with him, but he said if he knows about three things about a person in their ideology and then he can pinpoint every other ideology, he doesn't really respect them. He feels like they're looking at life through an ideological lens rather than as an

independent thinker, which I kind of agree. That's true. How dangerous is it when you noticed yourself slipping into these, I guess, ideologies? And how do you prevent that? So I wouldn't say I lose respect for people. I think it depends on the kind of person you are. I think there's something that's really, really important to keep in mind.

There's a couple of important things. One, we live in worlds where you need some sort of like ideological congrrency with the people around you or else you can't survive, right? So for me, and you can probably find me saying this, I'll say things like similar to what Chris Williams says. I shouldn't be able to predict every single belief you have based on two tweets. That's fucking pathetic, okay, in my opinion. But I'll say that.

But then also, I'm not surrounded by a whole bunch of people that are kind of enforcing that ideological homogeneity. Like, what if it was the case that I've got really strong opinions about Israel Palestine that are probably out of sync with a lot of younger people today? Well, if I was going to school and I was 21, would I want to make those opinions known? Like, what if that means losing half my friend group? And you can't lose half a friend group. You'll probably lose your whole friend group because now people have to make choice on who to hang out with. And the decision for an individual in like a social group that requires some level of cohesion, that's going to be a really difficult decision to make. So I'm understanding of people that, you know, kind of have bias to their social groups and need to believe certain things to maintain membership with those social groups.

I'm sympathetic towards it. The less sympathy happens when I'm talking to like YouTubers or political figures. I don't like partisan people or people that have a strict adherence to a particular ideology in the face of all other things and all other like data evidence. So like for instance, like I don't think it's bad to support political figures. I think that's fine. but let's say tomorrow the most 100% rigorous fact-fided,

everything about this study it was just true and you knew it was true if you read it and it says it like socialism is the best way to organize society okay.

Personally I'm a capitalist but if that study came out okay well fuck it I guess I'm a socialist if it really is the best thing that's fine but if you take somebody who's really smart

in my opinion Ben Shapiro is really smart but he's a conservative pundit there's no way that he can ever make any concessions towards that particular thing because his audience are all conservative

it's going to lose his paycheck, his money, his business, all of his employees, livelihoods will be threatened. Yeah, that's, yeah. So when it comes to people that are partisan, I think that I'm sympathetic towards individuals, but when it comes to larger figures,

I'm less sympathetic because I feel like you guys are getting paid big bucks to do this particular stuff. You should be a little bit more fearless when it comes to exploring kind of the edges of your ideology or pushing into other ideologies. That's really interesting. And I also want to be sure that everyone here knows. I'm not quoting him directly when he says he loses respect for people

when he can pinpoint all of their beliefs based off of three. You're just kind of smart. Yeah. You were saying that you don't feel. think Ben would alter his opinion because he's motivated by profit to think a certain way. Or there's a bit of audience capture, though, because he's like the conservative guy, right? Yeah. He is the conservative guy. Yes. But even if facts came out that disproved everything he was saying and they are objective, axiomatic facts, he would not change his opinion. I want to know if you

think that means that Ben is a bad faith political pundit. Bad faith is on a, there's a spectrum of bad faith, I think. I would say that anybody that is like ideological partisan has some adherence to that political ideology, and there might be some level of bad faith. But, I mean, it's going to depend on how you flex it. So, for instance, I might talk to some conservatives that they will bury their head in the sand when it comes to anything that Donald Trump has done. That's the norm for conservatives. Ben will at least acknowledge it all.

But then, in my opinion, if I would say he would be bad faith in any way, I would say that the excuses that he makes for Trump are way out there that he would never make for somebody on the left. So if Biden were to say like, oh, I'm going to tell, you know, Kamala Harris to change the election results or I'm going to call all these states and say, hey, guys, you need to change your electoral college votes. You know, I think it would be over. I think Ben would say, like, this is obviously one of the most corrupt things I've ever seen in my entire life. But I think he's actually said that about like, about Hunter Biden, you know, and comments relating to Hunter and Joe Biden. And it's like, okay, well, why are you so quiet on like Kushner, you know, pending $2 billion deals with the Saudis after his place in government.

in an office that Trump created for him, by the way. Like, Joe, you know, Joe Biden and Son Hunter Biden isn't even involved in government. Like, I feel like there's a lot of double standards at play there, and I think it comes down to political ideology, in my opinion. But to say that Ben is bad faith, I mean, it's all in the spectrum, I would say, yeah. And what about Jordan Peterson? I feel like Jordan Peterson is in the constellation of beliefs, and he's very much up there and out there. That's my feeling, yeah. But, yeah, we argued quite a bit, I think on vaccines, I think on global warming, on,

Yeah, it's out there, yeah. Now, why do you think that each side needs a common enemy? You mentioned that on Chris Williamson, that it helps to unite people to say, that this guy's bad, and we could all gear up together and say that person is causing all of our problems. I think when you are being attacked by somebody

just brings people together. You have a common enemy. You all feel like you've got a common struggle. You've got a common purpose. You can unite against something. You've got something in common to hate. I don't know why, but for humans, that's just a really unifying thing.

And what if there's no one to hate? Do they find somebody? Do they find something to dislike about a person? Maybe turn on each other. I'm not sure. I think people do generally need something. Like Chris Williamson says, we keep bringing them up. Run away from something as well as running to something. So it's like hating a certain group, but also loving another certain group. Maybe, yeah. What is your favorite debate that you've participated in? So we actually use AI on every single episode of the Ice Coffee Hour, and it might actually be the most important new computer technology out there. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested. so buckle up. The problem, though, is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power,

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My favorite debate that I participated in. I really like things where if I do a lot of research and I acquire a lot of knowledge, it's fun. So Ukraine-Russia debates against, I think probably the most in-depth one I might have had was against Nick Fuentes. I think that was a good debate because I did a lot of research for that. I did a lot of research for like MRANA vaccines and COVID stuff. So those debates were pretty fun. I've done recently like a lot of Israel-Palestine research.

At the end of the month, I'm pretty sure I'm having a two-and-two debate where one of my opponents is Norman Finkelstein for another Israel-Palestine thing that Lex is going to set up. And I'm looking forward to that. Are you going to be doing it with Ben? Because I saw Lex's tweet where he's like, all the people are. in Israel, all the people in Palestine. I will be doing it with Ben, not Ben Shapiro. Ben Morris. But yeah, I don't think me and Ben are not going to be super aligned on that in depth of a conversation about Israel.

Broadly speaking, we're going to be on the same side if you're like a pro-Palestinian person. But I have very, very, very harsh criticisms to Israel. They're just not going to come up unless you're really in the weeds on stuff. Who do you feel like is the most influential person on the left and the right? Oh, man. I feel like it's so like bubbled off. Like it depends on what part of the internet you're on. on like you could argue that I'm pretty influential in terms of like political left debating people

but depending on where you go people have never heard of me or even like Hassan or anybody so I don't know broadly speaking who is the most influential on the left I feel like we just don't have much really big alternative media on the left right now is really not like on the right you I would say Ben Shapiro is probably the largest and most influential or Tucker um Tucker definitely was him just on Fox News I feel like he's lost a lot of influence after I don't know on on Twitter or on X now, the amount of views he's getting seems to be substantial. And we could argue is that less than Fox,

but he's doing pretty good views right now. What does he do? Do you know what his last video was? Yeah, look at it up. They're usually in the millions. Not usually. They vary. Depends on the cast.

I guess in the left, the young Turks. But that's not even like, if you look at their views. Yeah. Tucker Carlson, one day I go, 260, one day, 415, two days, 440. Okay, so on Fox, he's getting more.

Here's a million. A million. It's definitely popular, but I, like, I would say six months ago, Tucker was the most popular, maybe media person of the world. Definitely the most popular conservative. He was the most consumed. Yeah, they had the most live concurrent viewers on Fox News.

Fox, I think of 5 with Tucker. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the most popular in the world. So he's still big. I'm not saying he's like, nobody now, but I'm saying he took a dramatic fall off a cliff when he got kicked off a Fox. And you had to be careful with the Twitter viewers because I think you realize, right? It's like if you watch a video for six seconds, it goes to view and it's not an accurate way of determining how popular person is. Yeah.

So why don't you feel like the left has more representation? Like the right does. Man, I don't know. The center left is just not a fun place to be. Nobody really likes you. You have to fight. Conservatives will hate you just as much, whether you're center left or a communist.

And if you're center left, everybody online is going to hate you because the only people online are the far left and those guys are fucking insane. So why is nobody big on the far left? Why don't we have larger people there? They're crazy. And it's a super minority opinion.

These guys are the most detached. They're all like millionaire, socialist, tanky fucks who like chair when like Israeli babies are killed. Like, they're actually fucking insane. So where is the majority on the left? Like, in the real world, it's probably like center left, but like those people aren't online. Like, you don't find, like, black people between the ages of like 45 and 65, like, aren't on Twitter. Or, like, center left, you know, like, cosmopolitan liberals and shit

aren't really on, like, Twitter anymore. It's like young, white, affluent, very, very far left, in college kids. These are the people that dominate social media, I think, these days. So what's the difference between that and people on the far right? Like, why are those people, people on the internet. I'm trying to figure out like what the commonalities are. If you're on the far right, I feel like aren't super on the internet. At least now. Sometimes it's, but why do it the personalities that garner so many views? It's different and it's weird, but like I would say, I would say that like for the far left, I think this is a very, very, very, very small minority of all Democrats, like less than less than like three or four

percent, if that. It's very, very, very small minority. But on the right, I would argue that Like for radical right, people like, you're really mad at me. I think anybody that supports Donald Trump I think is fucking crazy. And that's like 85% of Republicans right now. So they're way more visible.

You see a lot more of them. But because a lot of them are literally ready to follow Trump off a cliff. Yeah, they just are louder on the internet. There is no like, I guess I'm complaining about being a center left Democrat, truly being a center right Republican is probably a more difficult place to inhabit.

I would say it's difficult for us too because we like to really have equal representation on the podcast. And it's difficult for us to find people on the left to have on because there aren't that many. And the people that we do ask, it's very difficult to get them to say yes.

They've denied us a lot. Yeah. And then some people, like, we ended up getting them on, but it took months of scheduling. Whereas the people on the right, they're kind of just like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Why is that?

Do you have any idea? I think right now, I think when the left is kind of more in charge of like overall the media and they don't feel the pressure to be platformed because they are platformed, They probably don't want to jump on to controversial or debate platforms as much because there's more to lose. And their own audiences will attack them quite a bit for it. Like, oh, you're supporting them.

Why are you there? They platform this guy or why are you in this show, you know, Myron from Fresh and Fit was just there. Like, these guys are white nationalists. These guys are Red Hill, blah, blah, blah. So it's harder because people on the left will hardcore audit you for going on places that they don't approve or talking to people that they don't like. One thing that I've always found it really hard to grapple with is you think that if anybody supports Donald Trump, they're pretty much insane. Yeah. But that is still a significantly large population of a developed country of the United States.

That's pretty crazy. So how do you not have this like shadow of a doubt at least in your opinion of like, okay, if so many people and within this group of people, there are extremely intelligent people, there are very thoughtful people. They're very charitable people. They're very, like, open-minded people. Find me some. And I'll show on this podcast where you talk to them. I don't believe that there are very, there are very intelligent people that support Donald Trump, but they do it with their head in the sand. Or if somebody were to say something like, listen, okay, yeah, Donald Trump is all the.

these things, but like the tax cuts are good. And I like the economy a little bit more because he like tries to deregulate something. Okay, fine. But here's the thing. South Park did a great episode where you have like a turd sandwich and like a piece of diarrhea. I don't know. And you have to choose between the turd sandwich and the diary. If you have Trump and someone else, I'm just, I'm just giving an example here. And you don't like someone else. Doesn't that then by default, you're going with Trump. Does that make you the same? Yeah, but that's only if you're dumb enough to think that your choices are two things that are essentially the same. Like I said, I understand why some people support Trump. When I say that they're crazy, I don't necessarily mean like in a malevolent kind of way or I'm sorry, a malicious kind of way. Usually they just don't know anything. So they like Trump because he like owns the left. Because anytime because people say this thing, like, well, the both parties are the exact same thing. You're like, no, they're not. Like you're rich if you think that you're wealthy and you're stupid and you're disconnected. We actually think that both parties stand for the same thing. They clearly don't, right? Abortion or Supreme Court Justice picks are a really big example of that. Or support for like same sex marriages are a big example of that. The difference in the types of legislations that both people have

is a huge example of that. The different approaches to foreign policy are a huge example of that. Like the two parties are very, very, very different in terms of what they stand for and represent. The only way you can think they're the same as if you just don't follow it much,

or if you're pretty wealthy and insulated, you don't really care that much. You're just like whoever's the funniest on Twitter. Yeah. It seems as though a lot of people will look, if it comes between Trump and Biden, people that like Biden and like the policies, but worry that his age is getting in the way

and say, well, between the two of them, I don't know, I might pick Trump. Just because the alternative is something that I think might be slightly worse. Yeah, I just, like I said, find me one of those people and we can hash it out. It's just so not even close to true. There's such a large contingent of people that feel.

Yeah, but they just don't know what they're talking about. I just can't bring them in front of me. Give me 10 of them. You could send me with 10 in room every single time I talk to these people. It's always the exact same thing. Like, why do you like Trump over Biden? Well, Trump did way better with the economy. What did Trump do for the economy?

Thanks, cunt. How did that help you? Do you even do your own taxes? You make like 24,000. You saved me more money than you, you fucking retard. I actually take more money on my tax than you grossed in income because of your president. It was a billionaire from New York. And this is the guy that represents you.

Like, none of it actually makes sense. I'm sorry. No, I'm just like, listen, when I talk to the people, it's always the same fucking talking point over and over again. They have no fucking idea about anything they're talking about. They like Trump because he's funny because he represents a real anger that people have towards the system. And they want to break shit.

And Trump is the guy saying, I'll break it for you. And that's it. That's the extent of the support for Trump. It doesn't go deeper than that ever. There's no policy analysis ever. There's no foreign policy analysis ever. there's no like what a Trump actually tried to do to get reelected nobody even knows about like any of the J6 stuff or the elector of fraudulent scheme or the pressure on the DOJ saying he was going to fire one of them but they didn't write fake letters to state assemblies like nobody knows any of these things they're just like Trump because he's funny and he seems unbelievable he's playing a better social game so at what point does that need to be acknowledged that he is somehow appealing to people's innate feelings of you know wanting to join him yeah I mean well there's two things well one is it might end him in federal prison so I mean depending because there's you maybe play the game a little bit too much or two,

people need to do a better job on the left of representing their ideas. And it can't be, you know, average age, 72-year-old white guy that goes on TV to talk to people. They have to do a better job to get in their message job. I hate to say it, like, I'm not a fan of Newsome, but he does a good job on the left. Absolutely. Holy Jesus, I saw him do a couple. Yeah. Damn.

Yeah. He is amazing. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if he runs for president and he becomes the president because he has amazing people skills, incredible debate skills. He is confident. he is sharp you know again it's like i'm not i'm not a fan based on what i've seen in california but this guy has something really special that i think will appeal to those people yeah and i don't think anybody's going to make the mistake again not in in in the soon-to-be future of trying to run a

candidate that's not like people tested because oh my god i saw this you can find my stream and i joke i joke when i said i didn't have like a strong opinion of the time but i remember the very first time i saw desantis walk into like a store and talk to me i was like this guy's never going to be president There's no shot. He is so awkward. So, you know, mumbly with his feet and like anytime, it's just, this is not it. And yeah, I think as time is going on, I think it hasn't been yet. And DeSantis is like a non-well, right?

He suspended his campaign. Right. So I mean, like, yeah. But how do you see DeSantis and come to that conclusion? But at the same time, you have Joe Biden. I feel like he can't even like walk off a stage without five handlers helping him. It's not a matter of walk off the stage. It's a matter of like, do you have like, I don't know how to explain this.

It's like presidential energy. The bravado? Presidential energy. Biden has it. He talks. He's been a senator for a long time, the way that he talks and can talk to a crowd and smile at people and talk to people. I don't know why, but, like, Descentage just has this energy of, like, guy... Insecurity?

I don't know what it is. It's just the way that he carries themselves and speaks. He just comes off as, like, very wimpy kind of, yeah. Wimpy. Yeah, it doesn't really have to do with how senile or not senile you are. Like, some people just kind of come off that way. I'm not sure why. It's like a vibe thing, you know?

Yeah, I don't know. Like, in conclusion, the way that I see it is whenever I find myself in some sort of belief or having a belief system and then there's this massive opposition, I usually try to eke somewhere closer to the middle because I know that I'm probably wearing like an ideological onesie as well as the other side and there's still massive populations on both sides and both sides have people within that population that are super intelligent, super deep thinkers, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I agree. I think it's always a red flag if you find yourself standing against a huge opposition. Especially in a developed nation like the United States where like there's, you know, democratized access to information. So I mean, one of the ways to test that, it'd be really scared

is, well, go and talk to people, talk to a lot of them. I feel like I can represent their arguments really well, better than most of them can do it. Again, you can find me ten of them and put me in a room with them and we'll, yeah, we'll have the arguments. I've done it over and over and over again. And on the facts, it just, yeah, fails time and time again. Do you recommend people listen to political commentators that lean right? You should always be receptive to opposing viewpoints. I don't like almost any alternative media. I just, I don't know. I think most of it's trash. So you wouldn't recommend it? I don't listen to anybody on the right. Or left either. Like, most alternative media is just trash. But you're on the left. Yeah.

I'm a special boy. Listen to me. So you're the YouTube.com. You're the one exception. I feel like that's another example of you being this fringe exception where there's this massive population

of other people on the left and on the right or even in the center. What can I say? And none of it's okay. I'm a cool guy, you know? Here are things that I like about myself and if other people did them, I would say watch them.

There might be people to be able to do this. They might be out there and I'm just not aware of them, okay? One, I don't have a rigid adherence to a certain political ideology. I have my political ideology, which I could be biased towards sometimes. I admit that. I'm not a fucking perfect person. But like, there are going to be

things that the Democrats or progressives do that I think you're fucking stupid. And I'm going to side more with, I don't even say I'm siding with Republicans, but I just have strong inclination starts this way. And the reason why is because I have a personal set of beliefs and when a new situation is presented towards me, you're going to get my take on things. When you turn on my stream, and I think everybody now who is a familiar really knows this. If you're turning on my stream, you're getting what does Stephen Bonnell think about this particular issue. If I turn on, say, like Hassan's stream, I'm getting like, what do progress,

those are far left people think about this issue? Or if I turn on, you know, like Stephen Crowder's YouTube channel, I'm getting, what do these kind of like, right, MAGA people think about this?

But it's not really like a unique consideration of the facts and then a filtering through their own personal, you know, like moral or philosophical lens. And then how do they think about things at the end of the day? I would say that's evidenced by the fact that I have like a variety of opinions that I get in trouble with on the left and the right. So for instance,

like I think that written house is totally in the right. I think that there's good criticism of like a lot of the trans youth stuff. That doesn't mean I'm fully against it. Like I can be, yeah, there's a lot of things. Like Israel,

Palestine's also a little bit kind of like, oh true. I am a massive big dick for Zionism. Okay, totally fucking 100%. Yeah. Although I would be critical of Israel

on a lot of things as well. But like, yeah, definitely come out and support of that. But then like I fall very far left on some things. However, I would say it can be deceptive though when people say they're on the center

because they've got left and right beliefs because some people will say that. But in reality, when you go to analyze their beliefs, they're actually just like anti-disestablishment or dis or or establishment so like i would say that people like um uh tim pool it's a friendly guy but when somebody like that says like oh i'm you know i'm not on the left or the right or i'm even like center left or i'm more like a centrist when you

look at their beliefs actually over there is anything that has to be established so anything related to pharmaceutical companies big business government they're against all of that um although they're in favor of like every other like whatever stands in opposition to that um yeah so i I guess find people that you feel like have unique or interesting points of view. They don't always have to be like politically aligned. They don't feel a pressure to be politically aligned with one thing all the time. I personally, maybe it's unreasonable because I'm a streamer.

So I have like a different thing than what I would expect YouTube to do. But I stream like all of my research and reading. Like you can see what I read. You can see what I'm researching. You can be putting together my opinions as I'm like I take notes. I publish the notes that I take on everything and I show you what I'm, you know, looking up. I think that helps too. So you can see how I arrive at my particular belief, which helps.

I don't know I understand what you're saying in terms of like it's hard to think that you're like anytime you think you're unique in a certain way statistics would prove you should be yeah of course

yeah that is a good heuristic what you're saying like if I was listening to me say this and I was across the table I'd probably think like okay well you're probably full of shit and you just don't realize it

but you think you're unique for this particular way which I understand but yeah I mean I just stream all my stuff I've made it to this point of my career if you want to test it on anything like I said I'll argue with anybody on the facts on the morals

and whatever, and I feel like I can make a good argument for what I do here. Yeah, I just don't like it when I have super high conviction on something that's just obviously controversial. It kind of reminds me of the thing that your mother told you, don't be so open-minded, your brain falls out in a sense. It's like I just don't allow myself to have super high conviction on certain things like that, but it could be a double-edged sword. One thing I do appreciate is a lot of people I feel like, similar to what you'd probably

argue for Ben Shapiro is now people have this expectation of he needs to have this ideology, so he's financially incentivized to have this ideology. so, you know, he can interpret data and like, you know, what you would probably claim as an objectively incorrect way. But one thing that you've done, and I think you talked about this last time

we had you on, was you have taken stances you knew would piss off your audience just because you found it right. So financially punished for seeking truth. Yeah. I would say that one thing that I wonder because I'm trying to,

when I'm trying to think about being fair, I try to put myself in the other person's position. I wonder if I would feel differently if I had a company of people that we're all relying on my political opinion. So like if Ben Shapiro really, if that study for socialism did come out, Ben Shapiro's like,

you know what, I am a socialist now. Say that negatively impacts. I don't know how many employees are the daily wear. I say like 40, 50, 60 full-time employees and are negatively impacted. Is it hundreds now for full-time? W-2, full-time employees? Probably. Yeah.

So if it was in like the hundreds of employees, maybe would you feel differently about that. But actually, I don't think I would. I think I would just tell people when I hire you, like, this is what you're signing up for, good luck. I changed my opinion on the moments notice. I'd like to think that they would still be able to survive as a profitable company even if they change their complete narrative.

That's what I like to think. Yeah. That's another thing too is that like after you, I mean, when you made so much money, after a point, it's like, I'm not like, oh, God, like, I'm only going to make $80,000 this month. There's $150,000. Like, I don't know if I can handle this hit.

Like, I'm like, my lifestyle is the exact same. I mean, you see the clothes I wear, I drop my $40,000 focus arrest. I've got a nice apart that I pay like $5,000 a month for it. But like, other than that, I don't need a ton of money for anything. So, yeah. Do you think the American dream is dead? No, of course not.

If you're poor in America today, or physical, and you're between the ages of 20 and 60, is it your fault if you're poor? Fault is a really loaded word. Like, I mean, the answer is always yes to know at the same time. Like, there's probably steps that you can take to do better, but there's probably reasons why you've taken the steps that you've had taken. So, I mean, yeah, I don't know. That's a hard.

That's such a reductionist. Like, if you find, like, a person who's 20 years old and obese, is that their fault? I mean, like, kind of. They're choosing to eat the food that they eat. But, like, what if this person was obese at, like, eight years? years old. It's like one percent of people ever make it. That's probably a cognitive disability at that point. Or they just had kind of parents that like set them up for failure. So if it's like morbidly obese, then it could be a physical disability, which we disincluded in this. So it's like,

no, I'm not saying morbidly obese. I'm just saying like obesity. I like obesity as a lens for this because it's very like that's a very clear like just eat less and exercise more. Eat healthy exercise more. Those are things that every single person has theoretically 100% control over. But even though we have control over that 100% clearly it's influenced from our childhood. Right? Like if you take a behavior and you say like, oh, every single person can make a choice on this every single day. It's like, okay, well, that's one, you agree with that, right? That every single person can every day make a choice to eat or exercise, right? Basically, assuming no disabilities, right? But if that was really true, then you would expect to see smattering, it would basically be random for what everybody's weight and physical health would be in terms of obesity, right? But it's not random. Chances are if your parents are obese are, if your parents instilled these habits, right? But it's not random. Chances are if your parents instilled these habits, you know, you probably carry these habits. with you through adolescence into adulthood. So a lot of stuff that's like your fault is kind of your fault, but it's also because of the way you were raised.

So it's just good to have a realistic perspective on there are certain behaviors that you might have that came from childhood. And it is your, it's within your power to change them. But like they came from somewhere so you have to like work to accept that and then change it at the same time. If that makes sense. It does make sense. So you're saying that there are some exceptions once we bar out the certain things that

I had mentioned that we barred out the cognitive and physical disability. and no dependence and stuff like that, that there still will be exceptions. Of those exceptions, whose fault do you think it is then that they're poor? Instead of looking at it as fault, you should just look at it as every single person has 100% responsibility for themselves.

I agree with that. Yeah. So regardless of who's at fault, it is your responsibility and only your responsibility to improve yourself as much as you can. Now, there might have been things in your childhood that put you on a bad path and that fucked you up

and, you know, whose fault it is is, you know, is debatable or arguable. but it's your responsibility to change it. Now, the only time I would say that fault is important in determining how this is a... We can go over specific examples we can talk about this for a long time, but sometimes ascribing blame or fault is important

because if you're really, really, really far off the norm, sometimes it can be... The problem is you have to be careful. It can either be really empowering to ascribe fault or blame or it could be really disempowering to ascribe fault or blame. You just have to go through that process

in a very careful way. think you should be ignorant of fault. Yeah. Because I still think that is important, like you just alluded to, like, two minutes ago, that you need to see it through a real transparent lens. Like, you need to be experiencing reality for what it is. But I don't think that you should put a bunch of weight in fault. I think you should probably be aware that there might be some culpability from somebody

somewhere. But it is ultimately, the productive thing is whose responsibility is it? It's mine. Yeah. A lot of people want to figure out the root cause of something. And if, in that case of if they're obese, here's why I'm obese, here's what I was taught as a kid. And because of that, I am where I am today.

And because I understand this, I could better, you know, fix this going forward. Okay. Only in those circumstances, I think, is it good. But people have a really hard time doing that. Or it feels like it. So here, this is what I like to hear if somebody says this, okay? Let's say somebody says, oh, I have X, Y, Z condition, okay? Therefore, I do this thing.

I think that's really positive and really good. But often what I'll hear is, oh, well, I do this thing because I have this condition. these sound the same but like say somebody says I have um oh fuck OCD

sure well say I'm gonna make some shit up about us here let's say somebody says I have OCD I can't handle pink things or blue things okay therefore in my house

I've gotten rid of every pink and blue thing so doesn't mess with me ever right that's cool but instead I usually hear the reverse where somebody will be out and they'll be going crazy and they'll be hitting anything and it was like oh my God

what's going on like oh well I have OCD that's why I do all this and it's like okay instead of using like the when they do like this fault analysis instead of using it as like a diagnosis that they can then try to fix their life with. Instead, they learn this thing and now it's like, oh, thank God, I've got this new crush that I can just throw out whenever I act improperly or whenever I, like, fuck my life up. And I'd rather see people, if you analyze the thing and you understand it, use that understanding to build off of it and then either remediated it or, you know, find a way to avoid whatever triggers you or find a way to fix or cure whatever is going on, rather than now that I've identified this, oh, now I never.

ever have to. Oh, I've got, you know, XYZ condition. That's why I'm like such a piece of shit all the time. Ha, ha, ha, ha. And then, like, that's it. Yeah. I agree. I think you should frame your belief system in such a way that makes you better off at the end of the day. And what you're alluding to right here is better off insofar as you're using it to explain something and you're productive way to, like, actually make a measurable positive impact on your life, such as removing those things from your house. Yeah. Rather than saying that you're a victim and then just having inaction and continuing to suffer. Yeah. So what, uh, what advice would you give to those people? who maybe have something that they feel

is holding them back, they could place blame, they could place fault on something. How do you overcome that? I mean, like, oh, it's, I think, I feel like, I need to talk to the person. It's just, it's so, it's so individual.

Here's, like, two different things that I see, okay? Sometimes there are people that take no responsibility for themselves, and then they'll identify a thing, and then when they identify that thing, like, oh, this is why, I'm such a piece of shit, this is why I'm still lazy.

And then anytime anybody comes and tries to say, like, hey, like, don't you think you should do this? I'm like, oh, I can't. I've got this thing. And it's like, okay, well, shouldn't you do something about that? And like, no. It's like, okay. So if you find that you use your past as like an excuse to never do anything, or you have some condition or thing and you're using it as an excuse to never do anything, I mean, you're just kind of like a piece of shit. Like that, I mean, yeah, your life is going to be worse off for it.

It's not helping you. It's not, nobody else is giving you credit for this. Like, nobody ever thinks like, oh, you know, there's this guy. And I used to think he was like a really lazy piece of it. and shit, but then I found out he had this condition. So now I like totally, like, nobody thinks that. That's stupid. But on the other end of it, sometimes too, you've got people who are

they try to push forward too much and they won't actually stop and think like, hey, listen, you have a thing that you really need to address and you really need to understand this thing and do something about this because it's holding you back and just pretending that it's not there and pretending it's not having a negative effect on you. It's actually hurting you because you won't come to terms of their first.

So, yeah, those are like the opposite end of that spectrum, and both people need to move in totally opposite directions. But also sometimes I think people, these two people will switch themselves a lot too. That's what I'm saying. It's very individualized. For a long time, I had,

I think it was like seven years ago, my son got diagnosed with ADHD and got a medication fort and everything. And my community has always memed about me having it and blah, blah, blah. And I think I was the person at the one end of the spectrum where it's like, listen, okay, my brain works. I can sit and I concentrate,

blah, blah, blah. I'm just kind of like a lazy piece of shit. I can do this, okay? And my God, it took me, I think it was like four or five months ago. I had a friend who suggested like, hey, like I have Adderall. You should try someone. I was like, oh, fuck it. The first time of my life, I was like, holy shit, okay, maybe I actually have ADHD.

I'm going to go fucking get a prescription and we'll see blah, blah, blah, blah. And the past four months of my life have been unbelievably different my entire earlier light. I cannot fucking believe it. We could go on this Adderall conversation for hours. I had a very similar experience, suffered. I figured I had ADHD my entire life. It's been in my family. It was in my family too.

Yeah, because it was when my son got noticed a very high heritability. And I started looking back and like, oh man, maybe this is where my parents are late to every fucking thing. So late to everything. Oh, my God. Also, I remember one very distinct memory

I was taking piano lessons and my teacher, rather than fixing your notes, fixing your posture, fixing all of these things to improve your piano playing, he said the number one lesson in all caps,

underline, underline, underline, focus. Yeah. I just never throughout my entire life. How do you know if you have ADHD? Okay, so with most mental illness are most neurodevelopmental things. Everybody has some degree of everything.

I don't know if you're like on the border. I don't know what to tell you or I don't know how to help you figure it out. Obviously you should go to a professional or you can get an assessment. They do a lot of big neurocognitive testing if you're looking to like really know or you can just go to a psychiatrist or therapist

and get like a less formal assessment will do like a questionnaire. In my opinion for me, growing up through childhood, there were a lot of very, very, very obvious example. So like when it came to standardized tests, testing and stuff like I think we did the ITBS and it was Iowa test of basic skills. My scores were always very, very, very high.

Like 98, 99th percentile on all of these tests. My ACT scores were very good. I think I had a 35. And my in-class work, my GPA was like 2.7. And that was like in all AP classes. So this was curved up a lot. And my GPA was horrible. I could not focus to do homework to save my fucking life.

Okay, I remember I would get math sometimes. I would cry because I don't want to sit and do it. And not because it was hard. The idea of like sitting and doing anything ever, was just fucking agonizing. It was horrible. And I was the only kid in my entire grade whose parents had to sign my assignment notebook and the teacher had to sign it to make sure everybody knew what my homework was. Otherwise, I just wouldn't do anything. I would say that I was exceptionally outside of the norm in a lot of different ways in terms of my ability to focus on things versus, you know, what theoretically should have been like my intellectual capacity to do things. yeah so medication for that is just basically made it so that like oh like I can actually sit and read something for 46 hours and not hate my life to me that just seems like you weren't challenged

in school like if you're scoring really high but you don't want to sit there and do the homework to me that's like you're just seem bored I wouldn't think there are other indicators to like hyperactivity is another one so for example can be well with ADHD it's the like random like twitching that you always have like if you look at someone's hands and they're always like moving their hands or they're bouncing their knees and stuff like that that's the hyperactivity people can flate that with hyperactivity such as somebody who like runs around everywhere like a like golden retriever type personality yeah it's actually all these mini like little twitches that people have in order to like the reason the reason why i hesitate on a hyperactivity thing it can come out that way especially with the

twitching and the fidgeting is ADHD at the end of the day is a disease of focus and it's how do you direct your attention um for some people when they can't direct their attention they become hyperactive because they just want to like run around especially boys like to run around and do physical things or whatever but at the end of the day it's like can you sit and focus on something that you don't ordinarily have the ability to because people with ADHD have a really hard time relating to like reward that's not instantaneous because there's actually like parts of the brain that are neurodevelopmentally delayed like if you autopsy like an ADHD person there are certain parts in the forward part of the brain that are like and it's anywhere from like 10 to 13 percent smaller than an

ordinary person and what that means is for for a neurodevelopmental healthy brain if you've got to read something for four hours you can sit down and you can do it and you can read it and you can read it because you know that you have to. For somebody with ADHD, it is like an excruciatingly challenging task because unless you're being like constantly rewarded with some stream of stuff to sit and actually focus on doing anything is like impossible. That's lack of dopamine. Yeah. And the paradoxical kind of understanding of this is the way that it's kind of weird is that a lot of people say that's a lot of people say shit like. People say things like oh ADHD is a superpower and so my bullshit is not a fucking superpower. It's so stupid. But people look at people with ADHD and they'll

talk about something called like hyperfocus. All hyperfocus. All hyperfocus. And focus is, is because ADHD brain is usually so star for dopamine, if you find something that rewards you regularly, you will sit there and be fucking glued to it, because now you have something that's making you feel like, okay, for the first time, because your brain doesn't ordinarily produce dopamine at the levels it should.

That's where a lot of people with ADHD will sit and play. For a long time with my kid, or for me, I was like, I'm a professional Stargrap 2 player. I play Stargraf 2 play. I play Stargrap 2 for 16 hours a day. How the fuck can I have ADHD? Well, it's because this is like a game and it's rewarding me every single 10 seconds. I'm getting like another fucking hit and it feels good, you know? So what does Atterol do exactly?

So what an amphetamine is supposed to do is there's two ways that you can basically hit these little neurons, neurotransmitters in your brain. I think one is to prevent dopamine from coming out and one is to push it and vacuum it back in. I think what amphetamines do is they prevent the re-uptake of dopamine, so it increases the amount of dopamine availability in your brain. Methylphenidate, so that would be like Ritalin or concerta, concerta. These things like prevent the stuff from going out. They basically work the problem from two different ends. But at the end of the day, the goal is just make it to you've got higher levels of dopamine and no epinephrine available in your brain, which, like, makes you a little bit calmer, a little bit more able to focus on things that ordinarily you wouldn't be able to focus on because you want to go and do something else. What was that like for you, though?

What did it feel like? Like the first time trying it. And then you realize, wait a second, maybe I do have ADHD. Well, I'll be total honest. For the first three days, there's fucking amphetamine high, okay? I like amphetamines. I think they're fun. I think I've done dextra amphetamine recreationally on accident in the past.

What is that was? We'll just save meth amphetamine, basically. I thought I was getting MDMA. I was in Amsterdam, but it was a fun time. It was really nice. I was just high for like 20 hours. I didn't know why. And then I've done like MDMA in the past.

So there's like, I think there's a euphoria associated with amphetamine. So the first three days I was trying this Adderall, Adderall XR. I was definitely just high. I could definitely feel how it was like. What was the dosage? I started well, because my friend was on 20 milligrams of Adderal XR, which probably high to start with. But yeah, for the first three days, I was like fucking high.

It was cool, but like I know I'm just high. After day three and four when the euphoria were off, what I noticed was that like, like I could be on my computer and I could just read stuff. And I was like interested. I didn't have to keep rereading the same fucking sentence over and over again. And I could just sit and read and absorb the information and understand I talk about it for hours and hours and hours. Without having to feel like I was being like sucked to my other screen that I had to like have a oh like so for instance. Like if you guys are watching my stream, I'm always like playing games and stuff.

I haven't played a video game anything like four months because I just don't have the drive where it's like I need like something that's like making me feel good all the time. I just sit and read and focus on stuff which is so fucking nice. This is going to you're going to hate this. but this is the first time I've ever said this to you. I recognized recently, so I review every podcast before it goes out. We have editors and then I kind of do the final comb over recently what I've been doing because it takes me hours to go through a two hour podcast at 2X speed because I just pause it, rewatch, do this and that.

I just can't focus. But if I play a video game while I'm reviewing it, I can get through it so much faster. Similar to exactly what you do when you're researching, doing the super, super high-level deep research at the same time of playing a video game. I used to. I used to, but now I don't anymore. I don't need to. Now that I'm, like, medicated for the past four months,

I don't need to have that video game in the background. So I have Adderall prescribed, but I take it very sparingly. Oh, shit. Like, I have a sporadic schedule because I talked to my psychiatrist, and he was like, you know, ideally you don't use it every single day,

which is always how I was caught up on it. I thought that once you're prescribed, you take it as every single day to supplement you, basically. But actually, what it is is to make up, like, if you get a really bad night of sleep, and the next day you need to perform for some job or something like that,

you take it to bring, to bring you back up. Oh, that's crazy. I completely disagree on every single part of that. So, okay, this is something that we should probably talk about outside of the podcast. Because I think we're getting pretty nuanced here on AdRoll. But this is something, I mean, since I was like 19, I've like had it. I quit cold turkey for three years, not taking it at all.

Realized my life was like way worse when I wasn't taking it period. Now I'm kind of like using it sparingly. But that's another conversation. It works for you. Yeah. Fuck. I can remember you had Derek, I think, on from more place, more days. And he was saying that I was getting super fucking triggered.

but I think it's just really hard to tell like who actually has problems versus who's just like kind of lazy. I think that's the way I look at it is how long have you had this issue? Have you had it whole life? No, why does it seem so much more common now? You see these things, it's like ADHD

is going up through the roof and it's overprescribed. Do you think it's because we're testing for this now and we can acknowledge what it is? Or do you think that people are misdiagnosed all the time? I mean, it's probably overprescribed and underprescribed at the same time, I think. It probably just depends on the person.

I think it's like four or five percent of people have an ADHD diagnosis. People think today that it's like 50 to 60 percent. It's not that high. Like people think it's way higher than it actually is. But yeah, I don't know. I'm uncomfortable. Dr. Kha answered this question. Did he?

Yes, he said that a lot of people, and the same thing goes for actually autism these days, but a lot of it is actually just autism by proxy. And the same thing as ADHD by proxy. Because if you look at the way that we're actually spending our time, it's just scrolling on TikTok or scrolling on Instagram Reels and stuff like that. And that lowers... are dopamine. I would fight to the death on this as well.

There's absolutely no research that connects ADHD to environmental factors, like scrolling on screens or anything like a... Oh, this is what Dr. Case said. Here's the thing. Anecdotally, I think there's definitely a correlation between TikTok scrolling and attention spans. It increases people's, like, standard for, like, entertainment value threshold at any given moment because they're so used to super high entertainment value.

And then it decreases the, like, basically everything else and makes it monotonous. Like, what would you say to, like, a three-year-old kid or, like, a two-year-old. who's getting used to just like swiping, swiping, swiping and just scrolling. It's like, to me it's like. There's no research that connects any amount of like electronic. But there's so many, the thing is there are so many distractions these days.

And I think that's what, because people aren't productive, because you have advertisements, commercials, Instagram, all of these things. Yeah, and there might be those distractions, but it doesn't change the actual composition of your brain. Your ability, which is ADHD by proxy.

Sure. Because people find themselves unproductive since they're constantly being distracted by all these different things. Sure, but although, and the research on this is scarce. because I think it's hard to do this, but there's one study that I was familiar with

where if you give amphetamines to people, what they did was I think they broke people into three or four groups. If you give amphetamines to people who don't have ADHD, and then you assign them work, people that you give amphetamines to will do more work,

but they're not more productive. The quality of the work actually suffers. And the funny thing between this particular study was it, I think it broke them to four groups, the people that did the best when they were given the placebo, meaning no amphetamines and then you did their work

and then when you gave them emphetamines their performance was degraded they became the worst performers afterwards even though they didn't feel that way they actually felt like they were performing even better probably because they were high in amphetamines and it feels good but when you track the quality of the work had decreased the idea that like if you just give

amphetamines to everybody everybody will like become better I don't think is actually empirically tested anywhere as much as it feels very counterintuitive and I'm not a proponent of that either just to sure it seems like what you need to do is take two kids two twins but one of them on TikTok and one of them on a book and then test attention spans after like

five years and see who has a higher. Yeah. But it's just even for myself, I find myself falling into the trap at 33. If I scroll TikTok or Instagram reels for too long, for too many days in a row, I find myself, it's harder to

focus that following week after. Like there's a cool down period. Yeah, I definitely I understand what you're saying. And I don't necessarily disagree. This is just, I just have to put this out there for my fellow strugglers, okay? because it took me until I was 34 years old to finally get medication to do this, because I would fall into the trap of saying, like, I'm probably just lazy.

I play too many video games. I do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But one thing that happens growing up, and I don't know if you felt this way is, Graham, you know what time of year it is. Tax season's coming up. So you know we have a lot on our plate. And if you run a solo small business, you know about all of the different headaches that come with running your own company,

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the onboarding fee when you go to collective dot com slash ICH and tell them ICH sent you. That's a $199 value for free when you go to collective.com slash ICH and tell them ICH sent you. For the last time, that's collective.com slash ICH and tell them ICH sent you. Thank you so much collective and back to the episode. I would fall into the trap of saying like, I'm probably just lazy. I play too many video games. I do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But one thing that happens growing up, and I don't know if you felt this way is when you complain about a certain thing, everybody will kind of agree, but they don't actually do that particular thing. It's like a virtue signal. So I would say that when I was in high school easily, I think I probably studied for 10 hours cumulatively through the entire four years I was in high school. That might be an overshot. I could never sit down to study. But when you talk to other kids like, oh, like, did you study for the test or blah, blah, blah, blah. When a normal kid says it like, oh, no, I don't think I could really study, what they mean is they studied for like an hour Friday, two hour Saturday, and like only an hour Sunday. That's what they meant when they

would say that. Because we would get tests back and I'd be like, oh, I got like a 73 on my cal fucking paper and the kid next to me who didn't study and couldn't bring himself, got like a 94 and I'm like, fuck, how'd you do this? It's like, oh man, I think the last thing on Sunday, like it just helped. I was like, what do you mean the last thing? How many fucking days you studied for this for, right?

So there are definitely people that are just lazy or that complain or just want like a drug to fix things. I understand that. But there are, I think there are a group of people that have ADHD, hopefully, who your brain is just it's really, really, really, really, really hard to stay focused on things. Holy shit.

And the problem is that if we are to believe the current state of ADHD, research, and if we are to believe that the researchers know what they're talking about, if you have that type of brain, you cannot ever, ever, ever, ever, self-motivate. It is impossible. You don't have the neurochemical composition or the developmental structures that are grown enough to do it. The only way to do it is to externalize all of the rewards.

So like a counterint of example, for a kid that has ADHD, you might think that like, okay, well, I know he's got ADHD. I'm going to be more patient with him so that he can do, you know, his work in a timely manner. That's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. You have to actually ride that kid harder. You're going to be like, hey, do this, do this, do this. Because when you constantly remind him, that's the only way that they actually get it done. Because they can't internalize, but like, okay, I know this sucks, but like it'll just take three hours and they'll be done with it and that'll be fine.

It is impossible for a person with ADHD at a certain level to be able to do that ever. Yeah. Okay, I'm done with my spell. Fuck, I'm sorry. That's great. I want to keep talking about that. We'll talk more about it afterwards. Yeah, that'd be a great conversation.

I last five seconds. The only other reason I bring that last thing, too, is because amphetamines are really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really awesome mind drug. and that like when you take people with depression and you give them like SSRIs, bro, that's a whole fucking like one month period of like titrating up in doses and you don't even know it's going to fucking work and you might have fucking kill you some and blah blah blah whereas if you have ADHD and you get like an amphetamine

you'll know the next day or three days like if it's good or bad there's not this ramp up and ramp down and like oh I just got off my ADHD bed so I'm going to be like for a month like yeah that's my lash go okay if you have ADHD go get tested sorry I'm done Amazon presents Jeff versus

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Just to, Chris Williamson. To describe some definitions, what is the difference between a leftist, a liberal, and a progressive? A liberal, broadly speaking, the worldwide definition of, like, liberal is just somebody that believes in, like, the bill of rights. So you think that you should have, like, some freedom of speech, freedom of religion, private property rights. You're probably a capitalist. In the United States, more specifically, a liberal as a Democrat. But, like, on the rest of the world, they would say, well, conservatives and liberals in the United States are liberals, broadly speaking, because we all believe, like, in liberalism. So there's kind of like the two different definitions of liberal.

A liberalism, though. Yeah. In top level, just a definition. Well, like when somebody says liberal, they usually just mean like democratic capitalist person, broadly speaking. Like worldwide, that's what a liberal is. And the United States, liberal just means Democrat. Does that make sense? Yes.

And you said that that means someone who usually supports like the Bill of Rights and humanitarian type. Yeah, broadly speaking. Yeah. Okay. And then making amendments too, though, to the, to the constitution. I'm sorry. When I say bill of rights, I just mean like stuff like in the bill. Like you should be able to go to court and the government shouldn't like infringing on your property and like should protect your freedom of speech. That's what I mean. Like broadly speaking, that's like a liberal. So how is that opposed to a conservative? In the United States, it's not like like I said like if you go to Europe, they would say like oh in the US like conservatives and Democrats are both liberals. They're liberals. They believe like in democracy. They believe in capitalism. They're both liberals. Yeah. And then a leftist is usually. the United States, people will say anybody that's a Democrat is a leftist sometimes. But broadly speaking, like around the world or sometimes in the U.S., a leftist is a socialist

or a communist, somebody that is not a capitalist. And then what about a progressive? Progressive is they can be a liberal or they could be a leftist, meaning they might be a capitalist or anti-capitalist, but a progressive is somebody that that's usually more social policy aligned where they feel very, very, very, very strongly about like anti-racism. it might be like trans LGBT stuff a lot of stuff relating to like

white supremacy and stuff like that So is that top left then? What do you mean top left? Like on a political compass? Oh, I don't think about that political compass But maybe. Okay. Yeah.

But if somebody says they're progressive, they're really telling you about their social views generally. And then there's going to be a big overlap between progressivism and leftism. So a lot of progressives might also be like anti-capitalist, not necessarily. But you could also have liberals. Like I would say like I'm a liberal

and I'm pretty progressive because I'm a very big supporter of capitalism and democracy but I also am like a big supporter and a lot of like progressive social ideas so yeah. Where are liberals more unhappy? Um, I don't know.

That's a really hard one. You don't know? I don't know. How happy are you? One to ten. I'm super happy. I'm like a 9.5. Why do you feel so happy?

Um, I don't know. I'm a, my whole life story is kind of unique so I don't know how much it applies to everybody else. But I mean, I get to, I just, I have a really high mental baseline. Like it's like even if I'm grumpy. If I wake up, I'm usually like pretty even again.

I just do stuff in my life that I enjoy doing. And as long as I feel like I can continue to do what I enjoy doing, and I feel like I'm making incremental improvements on myself. I just always feel like I'm going to have a good place. Do you feel like happiness might be genetic that you have a high baseline? Maybe your parents had a high baseline or someone your family did and you inherited that? Because some people have a very low baseline of noticed. Yeah, it's possible.

Probably it's going to be some combination of environmental and genetic factors. The environmental factors might be really early in life, like before you're like six or seven years old. But who's to say, yeah? Have you ever gone through a period of time in your life where you felt depressed? Like depressed in response to something? Yeah, there have definitely been like a few days and it's like, ooh, this thing sucked a lot. But I'm very much like for whatever reason, stress is like very empowering to me. So when stressful things happen, I usually feel like I've got the tools to deal with it.

I just want to like keep pushing forward. The only time I've ever had like stuff relating to like mental like neurological depression or whatever. When I was 30, I did a lot of mushrooms. And for that year, I had a lot of strange mental issues. but I think it was probably like a reverberation from that initial mushroom trip, but other than that, no. What were some of those issues that you had?

For the first time of my life, I had bouts of anxiety. So, like, sitting on the couch and for no reason, my heart is just, like, fucking thumping in my chest, and I don't know why, and I just feel very anxious. A few days of hardcore an hedonia.

So, like, I feel like nothing can make me happy. I don't even want to get out of bed. I don't want to do anything to make me happy. I just feel kind of, like, worthless. Like, really weird stuff. Like, I say weird, but unfortunately there are people that live. with things like this, but yeah, I think it was just because of those, what was the mushrooms?

Yeah, I did a really big mushroom trip and I think I had a response to that that took me about 12 months to go. How much did you take on that trip? It was 10.5 grams of dried mushrooms. It was a fucking stupid amount. 10.5 grams. What made you think that was a good idea? Or did you not? You just wanted to do it. So prior to, prior to doing mushrooms, I did edibles up to, I think I could do like a 25 gram cookie and for me is that weed edible? Weed edible, yeah. I think it's grams, not milligrams

that they measure it, right? Do you do? I don't know. Okay, yeah. So, Recful had a friend who got us mushrooms and they were all like neatly baggy in like 3.5 grams each so that we could have our, you know, our trip.

And I remember I was debating between two and 3.5 grams because he was saying if you do two, you can have like a, you'll see like the walls breathe and it'll be like a kind of a cool experience. But if you do 3.5, you have like a full mushroom trip and you'll have like the whole the different phases and blah, blah, blah.

And so I'm going to do the 3.5, so I took a whole bag, and then I ate it, and I was like, okay, cool. And I just remember a feeling after 30 minutes, I was like, oh, my God, I know what's going to happen. I already know what's going to happen. Nothing is going to fucking happen because all of this is stupid bullshit. It's literally fucking mushrooms, and everybody on stream is going to say, like, oh, it's because you didn't try enough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I remember somebody saying that five grams was like a heroic dose, and like, fuck it,

I'll just eat two more bags. So I ate seven more grams because it's fucking mushrooms or whatever. Who cares? and about an hour in, and we're seeing like colors on the wall for the first time on the... Because I think when you get high on psyched else, at least for me for LSD and mushrooms,

you kind of see like colors, like kind of moving and the wall breathing. I'm that, oh shit, I'm finally like getting high. This is actually really cool. And then like 10 minutes later, it was like, yeah, probably the most intense extreme experience

in my entire fucking life. I think I was like totally out for like 30 minutes. What do you mean totally out? Like the, when I, like, in terms of seeing in my eyes, I'm just like moving through like, basically if black,

and then fractal colors of like tunnels of life and shit, and I'm just completely and totally disconnected. The perception that I don't exist anymore, that I don't even know who I am, that the person that used to knew who I was was somebody that was like distant a long time ago, just like it was a whole process of being stuck in other dimensions for... Was it scary?

Yeah. I think there was the guy next to me, and every time I would come out of it a little bit like, don't let me die, please don't let me die. I think I'm dying. Please don't let me die. Yeah, it was really bad. How long were you high for?

Just six hours. I think mushrooms are pretty reliably, like up and down six hours. even if you do a lot. How grateful were you when you stopped being high? It was the best experience in my life because I felt like I survived like the most traumatic thing ever. And I was happy to be alive when I came back. Do you ever feel like since that incident, you get little bouts of feeling like, oh, my God,

like flashbacks to when you were high? Because I feel like I hear a lot of people, they say they take acid, they take mushrooms or something like that or big doses especially. And for the next few years, they could go through like, just like a little scare. Like they feel exactly what they felt in that high moment. for just a split second and get really scared. Only when I'm getting high on other stuff. So something I realized a month or two,

later I tried to do edibles again, and I was right back in my, like, the peak of, like, my mushroom trip. I was like, oh, shit. So now if I smoke weed, I have to be, like, emotionally a good place because it's going to be a very, very, very psychedelic, like shifted experience.

I'm going to be going to another dimension every time I smoke weed now, for instance, yeah? Did you learn anything from this? I learned a couple of things. One is I gave a lot of credit to kind of like your cognitive mind to sort through reality. I figured that you've got like 10% is like your mood, 90% is like your mood.

cognitive, you know, human brain thinking. I, like, have switched that now where I think, like, probably 90% is, like, this underlying stuff you don't really have access to and 10% is the stuff you're thinking about. Yeah. Rails I don't like to be alone. I like other people. That's freaky.

It was very freaky, yeah. Back to your expertise. Yeah. I want to talk really quickly about the cultural and political shift that I feel like is happening right now. Okay. Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, and other people of influence appear to be moving to the right. You see Elon replying to end-wokeness on Twitter, a popular conservative publication.

Elon recently collaborated for an hour with Ben Shapiro. More people appear to be aligning more with conservatives. How many people do you see are moving to the left these days versus the right? I mean, it's more visible in people moving to the right. But then the question is like how left were these people ever? I don't feel like people are necessarily moving to the right. I feel like we're doing a rehash of, you remember like 10 years ago when people would be like anti-SJW? They're not like really conservative.

They just don't like all the crazy SJW stuff. The very hardcore progressive stuff. Yeah. Well, yeah. back then we just called SJWs, but yeah, now today,

now it's like called woke or progressive. And I feel like you just seem like a similar thing. Like people that are really woke are like the old SJW sometimes just push things too far and be like,

I don't think I feel this. And then they kind of like go in the other direction. But like these people aren't really conservatives. They're not going to stay there for a long time. Like Elon Musk is not like religious.

He doesn't like vibe well with, you know, like hardcore fundamentalist religious people or evangelical Christians in the United States. And yeah, I don't think it'll last much. But we'll see.

There was a, it was like, a chart or a graph or a spectrum thing that Elon tweeted where it was like people on the right people on the left and then Elon right here so he was like more so aligned on the left of it and then it was like that was back in the day and then now it showed the left it just pushed so far left while the center and right have stayed exactly the same and now he's like on the right side of the spectrum even though he still feels like he's on the left yeah that's fucking accurate to no Elon is just a fucking moron he shouldn't ever be like to no it's fucking dumb

every all the political positions have changed the right has changed dramatically If you were a Bush era conservative, the idea that your political party is now anti-corporation hates all big business and is following a New York City billionaire off the edge of the earth who has like had three wives and was fucking porn stars and paying them off with campaign money while cheating on his wife. This is the new, you know, like moral leader of your political party who also makes fun of like war heroes and like makes fun of like POWs and shit. Like that's wild. That sounds like you're like saying that. basically all conservatives are saying that Donald Trump is their moral hero when in actuality, I think that very few people

honestly on the conservative side believe that. I don't believe that. I think it's the biggest cope in the world. Okay, but what do you say to the people that say I'm really going to vote for Donald Trump not because I support him just because I hate Biden? They're lying. They're lying. They're lying. You think everybody's lying. It's always the game. I run into so many people. They'll do this thing. We're like,

yeah, I don't really support Biden. And, you know, Trump isn't the grain is. But I, you know, I'm voting for Trump, I guess. And then every time you look at social media, it's always like, Joe Biden sucks his son's fucking cock while he's fucking smoking crack cocaine. Donald Trump fucking owns this fucking guy. Embarrassing Hunter Biden released sex tape. Donald Trump fucking owns.

Like every, dude, I can listen to an hour of this. Yeah, no, dude, every single fucking time I talk to these people. I have never found the moderate Trump supporter. It is always people that, like, when I talk to them, they are blue in the face because I know they just came from throading like an eight inch like Trump realistic replica dildo because that's all they you probably you probably never met them because they're the people that are the people that are never going to talk about it it's the same people i feel like that are liberals or on the left that are not super extreme that you feel like most people are right there i feel like that same thing

exists on the right where it's just you don't really feel like like compelled to integrate yourself into this whole thing because it's just so toxic and and violent yeah but the difference is when you look on the left like if i go to the center left and i'm like what do you guys think about like progressives and what do you guys think about you know like lefties or tankies or whatever a lot of them will be like I don't really know but that shows I can find that sentiment if I look in Congress there's what like

four maybe progressives if you talk about like the justice stems right if I look at Republicans they couldn't have their they had no House majority leader for like a month for the first time in all of US history because they're playing somebody stupid fucking games in the House

of Representatives if I look at the Republican Party you've got the largest conservative figure in all of media, Tucker Carlson, going on TV, talking about how cool Trump is, and then the leaked text messages that came out over the Dominion case where like, I hate this fucking guy.

Like, he's destroying our network. He makes America look fucking horrible. I can't wait until he's gone. We don't have to suck off the studio anymore. I'm paraphrasing a bit. But yeah, it's not the same. It's not the same. People have gone too far left.

Like, I have friends. I don't know if you guys are like this. Because you seem like you don't have friends. I'm just kidding. I have friends that live like in Seattle and Portland. And they regularly tell me things where it's like the people here fucking cringe. I, like, it's gotten way crazier than what I'm used to. And I know a lot of friends

like that. I don't know any conservative was like, yeah, like all these people that are in me are huge, like MAGA, like Trump supporters that are so uncomfortable. I've never heard that in my life. Now, maybe I have a different set of friends, so it's not like that. But I think that you can see in the polling data, you can see in the politicians that are supported. You can see in the general bend of both parties. On the left, Biden doesn't ever, now maybe if you're conservative, you brain did you think is. But on the left, recently, Biden is not trying to cater to woke tards. ever like the biggest time that he tried to catered them maybe was through the student loan debt cancellation stuff what about all of the the invitations to like the transgender people to the white house and that one lady who like exposed i think like some naked part of her bot i'm sorry i could be getting the gender wrong here but like that person got naked at the white house i feel like that still is kind of pandering towards that it might like pander sure okay i'll qualify maybe they like pander a bit but like and then the white house video there for for christmas That one, too. I feel like most of that one pandering a little bit more towards.

Yeah, they might pander. But like at the end of the day, if you look at Biden's legislative agenda, if you look at the lawmakers that are in Congress, it matches the composition of the Democratic Party, which is largely not that. But if you compare that to the Republican side, the, like, the Democratic Party right now is in a totally good spot. The Republican Party is on the verge of collapse. Like, we can pretend that both sides are the same. But if Donald Trump doesn't win this next election, nobody has any fucking idea what the Republican Party is going to look like. Because Donald Trump is the Republican Party. He is the center of the party right now. 80, 85% of people would follow him if he were to run third party. The Republican Party is lost.

It's total center in terms of leadership. The only person there is Donald Trump. And yeah, I just think to pretend that both are like, yeah, you know, they both have the things. It's just not at all the same. What do you think about Vivek Ramoswamy? I don't. You don't think of him? Don't think about this guy. Why? Losing. I don't know. What do you mean? He was a good litmus test for, oh shit. Wait, did you guys like Vivek? I was about to say, really mean stuff. No, I mean, I don't have like a hard stance on the thing. We had him on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was really kind to us, really generous with this time. Also, I like a lot of like his, his, that you, they could just be PR moves, but he seems very diplomatic and supportive and understanding of certain things. Like when Trump was restricted from the ballot, he said, oh, I'm going to do the exact same. It seems like he's doing it from an ethical standpoint. Maybe politically posturing, you could make that argument.

It's posturing. I don't even know if he knows why Trump has taken off the ballot. He said, oh, I don't even know if he knows why Trump is taken off the ballot. He said. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. He's I don't think anybody does. I want to know about Jeffrey Epstein. What about him? What a disappointment. You have all the answers, right? To Jeffrey Epstein. Here's what happened.

Here's what people wanted there to be. People think that there are a bunch of politicians, billionaires that are raping kids all day long. And they love that theory. It's just such a fun, awesome theory. Hillary Clinton was involved in it. Bill Clinton was involved in it. All the billioners are all the... And then when a story like this comes out, yes, you finally, okay?

Q-Qaeda, the pizza shop, everything is coming together. Okay? This is it. The child billionaire, public. politician, sex rape ring, finally. And I think what probably actually happened was you had a billionaire guy like Epstein, who was a pervert, who paid off a ton of girls, not even the majority of them, the minority of them were underage, to come over, give him massages, maybe give his friends

massages, and sometimes jerk him off. But the vast majority of it was probably legal. The majority of it probably weren't minors. There were a few that were, I think, two confirmed, I think, only two. And he just, like, sometimes he would, like, send girls to go and, like, rub and tug his fucking friends or whatever, and that's it. think that any of it could have been for blackmail. No.

Absolutely not. Or I won't say absolutely not, but right now there is zero evidence whatsoever of that at all. And the idea of doing something like that for blackmail in U.S. territory against some of the most powerful people in the fucking world, that sounds like the most stupid. I'll think you could ever do. Why would you want to, I'm going to blackmail ex-president. I'm going to blackmail every rich and powerful person. But I think there's a narrative that he has videotapes or he has photos. There is a narrative.

would say, hey, if you don't do this little thing here, we got these photos and we could release it. They're already a billionaire. There's no evidence of any of this ever being the case. Nobody is asserted this or claimed this. It is pure fantastic, like, everything. There was just no reason at all to believe that to be the case. It's a fun story and it's cool and it's sensational. There's no evidence for any of it. And if you really think about it, it would be pretty wacky for a guy, like, oh, I'm going to go in blackmail literally all of the most powerful people in the world and see what happens. Why would you overdo that. That sounds like the dumbest thing ever.

No? But maybe that's why he's dead. But then why isn't Galane Maxwell dead? Why wasn't he killed before he even got taken to prison? Like there's like a billion other ways that this could have played out more reasonably. Like that kind of guy wouldn't get arrested. He would get fucking whacked. He would get assassinated.

There'd be like, who saw Kill Bill? Long time ago. Not a big movie guy. Remember the Asian girl who killed the one guy in the bed because and she was like a long time ago? I wouldn't. I wouldn't know about it. But they all hate that. Someone will remember that.

They all of the interesting story. It is. It is bad. Listen, a lot of you hearing this for the first time, okay? Epstein probably didn't do anything that crazy. Probably paid off some minors to jerk him off, which is bad and wrong and coercive and gross and disgusting. Joyty of the girls weren't underage. I don't think anybody got like traffic in the sense that they were like abducted or kidnapped or forced to say somewhere where they didn't want to.

I don't think he was sending children around to all of his friends so that they could all be in some pedophile sex ring. I don't think that there was any like blackmail crazy shit, anything like that going on. There's literally no proof or evidence for almost any of those claims, but they're fun. Are you concerned at all about politicians trying to put the political opposition in jail on both sides? I'm on the Republican side, not on the Democrat side. What do you mean? When I look at the history of behavior of Republicans trying to jail or talk about jailing political opponents, I think it's very worrisome. I would say that so far I think Democrats have been fairly responsible when it comes to how they approach it with some select criticisms for the way that they conduct themselves.

But I think all of the Trump indictments are 100% fair. All of them are public. You can read them. some of them he's dead to rights on like the mar-a-ligo thing absolutely dead to rights on that the new york thing is like uh kind of i don't know um the rico thing in georgia and the main jacksmith case per the uh interruption stuff i think is really strong it'll be interesting to how that plays out in court but yeah but you compare that to like the jim jordan like house impeachment inquiry of biden because he because he saw too many hunter biden cockpicks or whatever is like fucking

stupid i think and that's the the documents you're talking about mara lago is the classified information correct didn't joe biden have classified information as well Yes. And so the status on that? So again, this comes down to a fact of the matter thing that I think a lot of people just aren't aware of. Taking classified material out of a, they're called skiffs. I'm trying to remember what it stood for it. It's like secured classified information area, designated area or something. Taking classified material is not a crime.

You might get fired for it. Taking classified material is not a crime. The crime, if you actually read the criminal statutes under the U.S. Code and you can see them on all the trauma indictments, the crime is if you knowingly take something or if you keep something that you know you're not supposed to have in an unsecured area. That's the crime. So for what Joe Biden did, and I think Pence did this as well,

was either, I think it was their lawyers discovered like, oh, here's a document that might be classified because a lot of it is retroactively classified. It's not classified at the time you take it. And then if you communicate with either NARA or the FBI or the DOJ, you're like, hey, we've got a classified material here. Do you want to come and take this or whatever? Then they do that, you're fine.

That's totally, it's happened to a ton of people. It happens every time presidents leave office. Sometimes they take a bunch of stuff. Some stuff gets retroactively classified. NARA will come and they'll take the stuff. That's all fine. Donald Trump had the ability to do that. Narra reached out to him in March,

2021, I think. And then it wasn't until a year later that the FBI finally came knocking on the door because he wasn't cooperating. He wasn't turning any of it back in. And when you read all the league stuff, he knew that he had stuff that he wasn't supposed to have. He was intentionally trying to move the boxes around and hide it. And he was telling his employee that,

guy, or not a, Nauta, I think. He was telling him to lie to his legal counsel about where stuff was and what was where and to move it around to hide it from them. So Donald Trump was knowingly, he was satisfying the mens rea aspect of that criminal statute to be committing the crime of having classified material and retaining it against. What was the material? What was in it? National defense secrets is part of it. So for some stuff it related to, if you actually read the indictment for the Mar-a-Lagal case, they list, but it's all in like vague terms. So it'll be like a document might be the weapons capability of an ally when it comes to this type of attack, the defensive capability of an enemy in this region.

Like, those are what they're all marked as. I won't tell you specifically what it is. And why would he keep that? Good question. Why would he? I don't know. He showed off some of it. There were at least two instances that they are asserted in the indictments where he's just showing off, like, I think one is Iranian attack plans where he's talking to a reporter.

And he's like, look, Millie, he tried to say that I wanted to do this, but look at what he did. He's the one that made this plan and he was showing it to a reporter. So that's one instance of it. And then there was another one talking about plans or something to another person. Those are crimes. The obstruction element is also a crime. Yeah, retention. Willful retention of national defense secrets is a crime. Even if the materials declassified. And then the obstruction of justice charges are crimes as well. The falsification of federal documents was one of the indictments. Conspiracy for obstruction was another charge. Yeah. Yeah. At any point do you think it's in the

people's best interest to limit free speech. Yeah, of course. And where do you draw that line? I don't know. It's a hard one to draw, but obviously there's tons of limits that we all agree. I can't make plans with you,

for instance, to go and kill somebody, right? And then go buy something to do it, right? That's conspiracy to commit murder. Conspiracies to commit crimes are arguably, it's just a speech element and then one step taken towards the crime

that's not illegal. The obvious, like, shouting fire in a movie theater is illegal. You know, leaking, classified information can be a crime. Like, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of free speech things that are crimes.

Yeah, I don't know. It's super depends. There's the Brandonburg, the Ohio standard for inciting a riot. Like you've got to know, you've got to have the intention of inciting a riot and know that your words will cause a riot or whatever.

There's got to be like imminent lawful or lawlessness that you're encouraging people to do, et cetera. Yeah, I don't know. That's very broad. It depends on any of a specific example of, how would you limit where to platform somebody or where they fall on that,

that you even want to give them a platform to talk? Problem out from anybody. I think, well, if it's popular enough, I think you should always be talking about it, if there's like a guy who thinks he's got like a rock-sallet argument for why we should sacrifice children to the sun god and he's got like 0.0001% popular. I probably wouldn't platform this guy. But for Donald Trump or all of the stuff relating to conservatives there, these are all very, very, very popular beliefs. There's a large segment of the United States population that believes in these things. So the idea that you wouldn't platform that when, you know, 30 or 40% of Americans believe it is insane to me. I agree. I'm not a huge fan of the word platforming or platform, which I feel like it's kind of exploded in usage in the past couple of years. How could you have this person on your just platform? these ideas and stuff like that, which I think is just like, I think that that thought, if you're thinking that, that's like plagued your brain. Well, I think the argument is that you're giving, you're exposing this person to a wide range

of people who may never have seen this person. And because we're the ones to introduce that person to a new audience, they might take on those beliefs. But how do you know you're right and they're wrong if they have support from like, you know, a non-institutional? Well, to the person who disagrees, everything that person says is bad. Right, but I'm saying it's up to them that's having that thought. if you recognize that thought,

then you should probably look inwards and question that thought. Yeah. I think it's also a matter of like how equipped is that person to deal with it versus you. Like if I, like if I was the world's most intelligent

flat earther, I could probably beat you guys on a debate about flat earth, right? Yeah. Like I would say the same. I don't think I would win a debate against the world's best flat of it. I don't know everything.

The world's best probably not. Yeah. And that's probably true of almost every conspiracy. I think I know a lot about like Russia Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, vaccines, but the like the top experts in any of these things could probably say almost anything to me

and I don't know if I could counter it. So if I have very strong moral beliefs about how I think we should feel about, say, like, vaccines, I'm not going to bring on like the world's best anti-vaxxer because I'm probably going to get crushed in that argument unless I do a lot of very particular research with this particular debate. So I wouldn't want to like give this guy access to my whole audience where I can't counter a single thing he says. So I think that's fair. Sometimes I think it's just the way you say it and with the confidence. If you say something with like 100% conviction, I almost can't disagree with it because I can't say, well, my experience is different. but if you believe that to be true, you know, sure. Go for it.

But I don't agree. And just leave it at that. But I think a lot of people want that. And if you say it in a very fluent way, people say fluency is a proxy for accuracy, which I kind of agree with. Interesting. It depends on what you mean by fluency. But yeah, I'd probably agree with you.

Like if you're able to just kind of like go and just maintain a good. Yeah, I'd agree. Yeah, I'd agree. Yeah. Do you think journalism is failing America? Mm, a little bit. But I also think America's failing journalism. I think they're very reciprocal.

They feed back into each other. And the type of journalism we have today is very much a response to the type of things that Americans want to see. And I think we all kind of have to do a little bit better in moving towards a more responsible future. So who's it up to first? I would argue the journalists. It's up to the, so we should set higher standards for journalists. Well, when you say we should set higher standards for journalists, that means not like the people need to move first because we're setting the standards. Right.

You're right. Yeah. So you'd say it's the government needs to set higher standards for journalists. No journalists need to set higher standards for journalists, I think. But why would they do that when they're financially incentivized otherwise? No, it's a hard one, right? So why would the people do it when the people like watching people screaming at each other and being the most part of them? That is the problem.

So they feedback in, that's what I mean when I say feedback into each other. Because that financial incentive is the feedback mechanism. And then for consumers, it's the consumption lever that's their feedback mechanism. So they're going to watch things that are entertaining the most, and journalists are going to produce the things that entertain them the most. And then you're stuck on this horrible world. That's the tough part. It's like you don't want to restrict them, but you do want to somehow incentivize them. to angle a little bit more towards truth.

It's human nature, though. That's why the news is so negative all the time. That's what keeps people watching. And we've even realized it on my main channel of just like negative titles, get twice to three times the viewership than a positive title consistently. And it's one of those things where,

like, do you want to make a positive title that a third of the people watch? Or you make the same video, the same message with a negative headline people watch it and take away the message. We were even talking about this earlier with a podcast title. Do we say the five things you could do to get rich

or the five things you could do not to be poor? The poor title, like, it's the same video, but the negative connotation does better. And so from a journalistic point of view, it's like the negative is going to get more attention. People are more likely to click it. There's no reason for them to change that. I don't know. It's a tough one.

I wonder sometimes, yeah, I don't know. This idea just popped in my head, So I might completely two days from now I think it's a dumbest thing in the world. But I wonder if people are drawn to the negative stuff because their actual real life is actually pretty decent, even though people don't realize it. So you're like drawn to the negative stuff because it stands out more.

Like do everyone turn on the TV and watch like some happy, normal, ordinary story? If like my life is like kind of boring or whatever, do I want to say like some exceptionally crazy shit? Because I'm thinking like if you take people in like really exceptionally fucked circumstances, like would they be listening to negative stuff all the time? I think they would. Because I feel like, when I think of the people that have the most engagement with politics,

in a negative way where it's really driving them crazy. I'm usually thinking of like middle class kids who are like their life is fine. I'm like, why the fuck? If this stuff makes you so miserable, why are you fighting about this all the time? There was something I saw of like the fear of loss versus the pursuit of gain. And someone fears losing $1 way more than they would pursue getting $2. There's a lot of interest in behavioral. Yeah, the ratios are so skewed towards like, I'd rather not risk this little bit than have all.

all of this upside. Yeah. And my understanding is that all of that was really designed to keep us alive. Like we have to be on edge because what if a lion comes out and like kills you or you do that one thing? Like it's more worth it to try to stay alive than it is to try to, you know. We had a psychiatrist on the podcast who also did crisis negotiation. And he said the reason why we're so fearful of negative things happening is because it's

been coded into our genetics into our DNA. Whereas back in the day, like Graham said, if you weren't fully perceptive of all the negative things like eating a certain bad fruit or like going into a certain bad part of the jungle where a lion could attack you like that was the end of it that was the end of your entire family tree end of spreading your your genetics end of your entire life end of everything um and we're so used to that that like kind of scared mentality the scarcity that it's just kind of like stayed with us even though we don't really have any of those like super violent threats it's still way more important when you're walking through a dark alleyway these days to think somebody's going to come and get you

um rather than to just be completely oblivious of negative things that could happen because that's the end of everything. Very little margin of error when it comes to your safety or your life. One thing that I absolutely despise about journalism is they can make certain claims about people. And then these claims, these alleged claims, they turn out to be false. And then they don't make content that would say, oh, sorry, guys, I made this claim about this person. It kind of ruined their life. But it turns out it's not false. And I'm sorry, I'll do better in the future. That just never happens. For example, this is a personal example. But it, It happened to my favorite artist in the entire world. His name's Rex Orange County.

So he had a bunch of articles made about him doing alleged sexual assault. And then I was in all of his fan groups and everything. And everyone was saying, I will never forgive him, even if he ends up being not guilty because this is just such a disgusting thing. Right. So he is incurring actual financial damage, reputation damage,

measurable damages to his life because of all of these articles that came out. Turns out CCTV footage came out, proved him innocent, like actual irrefutable evidence, all the charges got dropped, and nobody made any content whatsoever saying that he was innocent. And now I still feel to this day when I meet people and they ask me about my music taste and I say, oh, I love Rex Orange County. They always say, oh, yeah, but what do you think about that thing? It's like they all know about the alleged infraction, but nobody knows about when he was actually absolved from it. Yeah, that's definitely a problem. Even if Fable did publish retractions, the retractions always get way less coverage than the

original claims. There was something that I saw on Twitter, and it was this huge follow-up of this, I think she was like a congresswoman or something that said she was sexually assaulted in, like, the train station, and she pointed to the guy, and they caught the guy, and all these headlines went out about him. I was trying to just find his name, and then they pulled up the CCTV footage afterwards, and the guy just was on his phone, accidentally and kind of bumped into her like this, and kept walking. And that was it. And then no one really reported on it,

but they later found out how ridiculous this was. And then they posted it calling out this Congress. Maybe she wasn't a cop. And she probably didn't suffer that much. No, she didn't. No, but this guy, I believe, like, lost his job. He was targeted. People, like, were sending him death threats.

They were trying to track him. And the same thing happened to Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle Rittenhouse had several death threats. And like you said, assuming your take on Kyle Rittenhouse case is correct. and he was doing completely fine thing, not in the wrong in any capacity, but he suffered horribly because of the thing. And hardly any media,

well, at least on the left, more so on the right does it, covers it. Yeah, I mean, that's bad, of course, I agree. A lot of the coverage of those stories are really bad. One of the most fucked ones that I thought was funny was the Birdwatcher, the Central Park. I think it was in Central Park,

the birdwatcher guy, who ran into the woman with the dog and she called 911 on him. Oh, fuck, never mind. Wait a second. I remember this. Yeah, it was a big. That guy has a TV show now, I think, on, like, the Discovery Channel.

His whole life got made for that. Now, woman's life got destroyed. But basically, I think there's a recording of, I don't want to get the quoting on this wrong, especially because we're talking about misreporting. But there's, like, there's, like, a video of him on his cell phone. And she's saying something like, like, hi, 911. Like, there's a guy here. There's a black man here, and he's threatening me.

And something like that. I don't remember she says something like, oh, like you're a black guy. Like, the cops are going to get you. I don't know if it's something specifically. that or it was just her saying like there's a black man here and he's like oh you're being racist and blah blah blah and he published that video uh online and her life was destroyed and obviously he was a hero who endured this horrible karen white woman in the park blah blah blah blah but when you go back and you look at the actual facebook post that the black guy had made on his facebook now i'm not trying to

say that the woman was necessarily in the right for calling the cops but on the guy's own facebook he said that he had brought doggy treats because this woman was bringing her dog to the park and he thought that the dog needed to be on a leash or something, and he brought dogy traits, and he was going to try to lure the dog away from her so that he could, like, take the dog or something. And in that light, I'm like, okay, well, I kind of understand if he's threatening to do this,

because then he also threatened, like, I'm going to get your dog and blah, blah, blah, that she would call nine minutes now because she's worried or whatever. It paints that stirring a way different life. But, yeah, there's a lot of random stories where you get, like, half the, I mean, you brought up Kyle Rittenhouse. All of Kyle Rittenhouse happened

because of the riots that happened in Kenosha, which was in response. to like that 14 second Twitter video clip of Jacob Blake. Do you remember that? Black guy goes into a car with a cop behind him and he shoots him the back like seven times and it looks horrible. But the entirety of that was two or three cops

were wrestling with this guy to try to not get him to go in the car that had like the two children of a woman that this guy had previously sexually assaulted and the cops were trying to get him to not drive off with the kids in the car. So when the full of story came out, in my opinion, the police officers were completely exonerated. Maybe they should have tried harder to take him down

before him getting in the car, whatever. But initially, it looked like just some black dude trying to get in a car where the cops were bowling and they shot them in the back for like seven times for no reason, right? Did anything happen to the police officers? I don't remember what the follow-up for them was, but I know the Kenosha riots were in response

to that video, the Jacob Blake video. The problem with stuff like this is that you're financially incentivized to trigger negative emotions in people about us a given enemy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it just lined your pockets more,

the worst you make them seem. Cops, immigrants, black people, conservatives, liberals, yeah. For me, I don't like the fact that they could make all these alleged claims, but almost them as though they're a fact. Yep.

Like there are some of these things where I read them. It's like, you know, this person took this person to the thing. Beat them and did this and this and this. And then at the end it's like allegedly according to the complaint or whatever it might be. And it just makes it sound like, oh, they're stating this is a fact and this is true. I feel like from media there generally, well, they'll always say allegedly if that's the case. And then it's, we reached out no comments, you know. For Twitter and stuff, it'll be, I can always tell people like, if you see a 12 second video, you should always be wondering why it's a 12 second video.

We all have cell phones. We've got CCTV footage. Like, if you're seeing 12 seconds of video footage, it's because somebody very specifically wants you to see only 12 seconds of video footage. That should say something to you, you know? We had a conversation with David Packhouse. He was the guy from Ward Dogs, if you've ever seen that movie. And there was a major media publication.

I think it was the New York Times that made this massive article on him, saying that he was delivering improper ammo to the Afghans, sourcing it through the U.S. military. And then all of these secondary publications source, or they cite the original publication in the New York Times basically as fact so as it goes down the line

people just start citing other things and citing other things and then it just eventually becomes fact yeah that happens yeah I notice sometimes when I try to track down like an original source or clamp or something I'm clicking and clicking and what was like 15 different sources is actually only one

and then when you go to that one and you try to figure where they got it from you're like hmm yeah that happens I got a question about Tucker Carlson yeah he was recently spotted in Russia people are speculating he's going to be interviewing or having a conversation with Vladimir Putin, what do you think about that? Do you think more journalists should strive to have those hard conversations with people that are kind of warlords?

I think journalists should have hard conversations. That's not what Tucker Carlson is going to go. He's going to go do the constellation thing. Putin is awesome because he's standing up to the U.S. That's weak and they're losers. But Putin is based and strong. And they believe like in Christian values and the family. And they don't believe like in weird trans gay shit. And he's like, you know, doing what he needs. needs to do to be a man and traditional and America is like weak and feminine and it's just like that East versus West culture work stupid shit that's exactly with that whole energy I just spoiled the whole interview for your entire audience so make sure you put a spoiler on this section because that's the entirety of that interview is going to be like that I love the conviction that you have with that

and we'll be able to directly like actually good clip me yeah it's that's exactly what it's it would be hard to go to Russia and criticize Putin to his case I mean I mean you got how far could you take it to begin with right there's probably going to be like armed and just outside of the whatever building they're in or room. Yeah, but I probably just wouldn't do it then. If I have to either choose to be like a mouthpiece of some guy or not talk to the guy, I probably just wouldn't talk to him. I think it depends on what Tucker's incentives are.

If his incentive is I want to make money and I want to expand my reach because a lot of people are going to watch this, I'm just going to do it and say whatever I need to say. Sure. That's probably what he's, yeah, we'll try to do, yeah. I am having a really hard time understanding the left perspective as far as the border, to be honest. Um, obviously for everyone to get up to speed on the news, Texas started putting up walls.

The federal government was trying to take them down. Civil war was trending in the United States on Twitter because people think that it's like actually the first time since a state is disobeying direct orders from the federal government for what, like 50, 60 years or something like that. It had been a very long time since something like that had occurred. Um, the Supreme Court ruled Texas can't install razor wire and barriers to mitigate legal immigration. Um, what are your thoughts on? the governor Greg Abbott saying that they have a right to defend themselves. The federal government should not be involved in this. What do you think about the federal government removing the razor wire? This is just a legal argument. And it's not going to be satisfying for a lot of people. But the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction on matters relating to immigration, states that have no jurisdiction whatsoever. If the federal government and their enforcement of border policy is doing something and Texas wants to do something with them, they can do that in coordination with. each other with the federal government's consent, Texas cannot defy the federal government on immigration law. So if they're putting up razor wire fence that ICE or whoever DHS, I don't know, is it ICE?

Immigration is a customs enforcement or they're the ones that are at the border? I feel like it's a different agency. Customs and border enforcement. CBE maybe? I'm no, fuck, I don't remember. I think it's, it might just be ICE. I don't think it's ICE. There's another name for the agency. But yeah, if they're down there and they're saying, hey, stop putting them this razor wire. It's fucking with our job, you know, and then Texas continues to put it up for purposes of regulating immigration. Texas doesn't have the authority to do that as a state. Just pull stop. They don't. Okay. So barring what the current rules are saying, what do you think should happen here if you're going to make the biggest possible benefit for Americans? And do you think that that

should be the main thing in the purview of the government? I mean, the federal government should have exclusive rights to do immigration. That's just, that's the only way the country works. That nothing else makes sense there. So, I mean, that should be the case. In terms of, like, how to actually deal with the border, it's always hard to tell, like, if things are bad or not, because everybody has like an incentive in blowing up other stuff. Like every year, you know, conservatives say there's a new refugee asylum seeking crisis on the border and it usually is like overhyped. But this one seems to be different. Well, because Abbott is like making it his like job to now defy the federal government in terms of he wants to enforce border policy.

I think something definitely needs to be done. Obviously there are issues relating to the border and people like coming into this country illegally. I think Biden is trying to pass legislation to get something done, but Republicans are also blocking it. I think Biden was asking for more power when people were saying that Biden already has the authority to solve the problem. I don't think it was power. I think he was asking for money. I think they just need money. Our border system is like really backed up. Like I don't think we have enough money for agents. I don't think we enough money for the court stuff. Like it's just it's more money for it. And that's just more money for it. And that's just more money for it. And what we really need, unfortunately, is like comprehensive immigration reform. We need to figure out, we need to redo how we let people know this country. And there's just not the political will on either side for it yet. So is this not something that's concerning to you at all? There are parts of this that are concerning. The main part is that a state governor would defy the federal government and then get support from like 25 other governors to do that. That's very scary.

But this isn't high up on your list of priorities as far as like what's happening right now policy-wise. It's actually, it would be one of the highest things. I just don't talk about it because of the difference between the state and federal government. Yeah, because it, well, it makes me sound unhinged, but. Yeah. Assuming all the facts and I haven't done like the super deep dive into this, like, but if the facts are, I was like, I think they are or have they've been. Have they been, like, presented or whatever? I think Abbott should be arrested and thrown in a federal prison because he's literally, like, rebellious.

There are, again, this would be the same thing as if California were to say, like, oh, well, we've actually decided today that we're going to let anybody from Mexico that wants to fly into the state. We're going to let them fly and stay here even if they're legal immigrants. They can just get out at the airport and they can go and live in this in this state if they want to, which would be insane. You can't do that. Do you have confidence that if the plan that Biden has proposed would be approved, that it would actually drastically, improve the border enforcement in the situation? I think it would improve it. It would have drastically improve it?

I don't know. Biden's enforcement right now is, I think, a little bit better than Trump by the numbers. People don't like to hear that. But the reality is, one, Trump's final year in office was very easy because of COVID. There weren't very many people coming through. And because Trump could use, I think it was Title 42, he could declare a national health emergency and do hardcore border enforcement, which Biden couldn't do anymore. He tried to.

And the Supreme Court said, you can't use his title anymore to do this because there's no more COVID health emergency. But I think the Cato Institute did a big analysis on the number of people that were coming in as a percentage of like border rising and et cetera, et cetera. And it showed that Biden was doing percentage wise a bit better. There's just a whole bunch more people trying to come right now, especially once COVID is over. So I think that like more money would help. But again, we need like comprehensive like immigration overhaul. And I don't know when the fuck that's ever coming in.

So my understanding of the situation, let me just state this right here. I get most of my information from Twitter. On the left and on the right, just to be clear. but it seems as though the remain in Mexico was just it obviously went away with Title 42 and then people are coming. They're saying that I feel threatened by my current government. You get led into the United States with a certain court order that you have to peer by so-and-so date, say three or so months in the future. And then people just come into the United States, drop their passports, drop everything, drop all documentation and then pray that some policy

is going to be passed for them all to be granted amnesty. Yeah, I've read that. I don't know by the numbers, like how much it's actually happening. So it's current. It might that. If that is happening in a huge amount, that would be a bad thing. But I don't know if that's happening more than it ever has been in the past. If there's any reason to believe that it's happening more than it ever has been in the past. I think that the number, so I've seen a lot of data on this, at least, but it could be skewed data, but it does appear that the number is like 10,000 illegal immigrants coming per day from the southern border that are going into the United States. And the thing that's concerning for a lot of people is if you added up all of the numbers,

I think it was since the beginning of Biden's presidency. The known number is six million. And then you have all of the unknown godaways, which are the people that just get through the border without actually being on a camera or anything. And six million people, I think I saw some number where it's a greater population than like some crazy amount of the actual population of certain states. Yeah. I mean, I think the overall amount of illegal immigrants that I'm familiar with that are supposed to be like 12 to 15 million. And the numbers that people, I hear people saying is that like the illegal immigrant population is like almost doubled in the past like three or four years. I don't know if I believe that. But I haven't done like the really deep dive on the immigration border stuff.

I was going to. But I'm still doing like foreign policy. So I haven't dug into this as much right now. Yeah, I was really interesting that you didn't really talk about that with Ben Shapiro. I really thought that that was going to be brought up because I think for the conservatives right now, that's the biggest concern honestly. And you see other people like Bill Maher, you know, especially when you have these people, these like four illegal immigrants in New York that beat up all these police officers and that was caught on video. People are now saying, okay, these guys got let off scott. like without bail that makes absolutely no sense and then certain things are getting approved for i think

it was like i don't know the exact amount but it was in the millions tens of millions maybe over a hundred million um for visas with a thousand dollar credits to be dispersed to a bunch of different illegal aliens and then a lot of people are saying okay well it appears as though they're taking care of these immigrants more so than they're taking care of the citizens i normally and again i can't speak to those things i haven't looked into that but normally when you look into these things they never are as they're reported like i figured so yeah But if it is, then it would be concerning. Yeah, it would be, but it almost never is.

When a story seems like too sensational to be true, when you actually look into the details, it's usually not. But I haven't looked into those, so I can't speak to them. We'll do our best to fact check what I just said. But it would be interesting. I would like to see your take on that. Okay. Can we talk about business and finance?

Sure. So we talked about this last time you came on the podcast, and this was actually, interestingly enough, some of the viewer's favorite section of the entire podcast. Because I feel like it's very rare that you talk about this, aside from, like, policy and stuff like that. I want to know how your revenue. has changed since you last came on this podcast. And if the sources of revenue have changed, like where you're getting it from. Well, YouTube is a big one. I like a contract now with

KIC for streaming, which is also a big one. So the contract, you're still not able to disclose that contract? Probably not. Probably not. And then YouTube, I've noticed that like your YouTube channel seems to be like exploding. Yeah. Currently. Do you have any idea why that may be happening? Because I'm awesome. I try to go on a variety of platforms. I'm usually pretty entertaining on a variety of like different areas so I can like plug in with a lot of different audiences. And then I think my political point of view is a little bit refreshing because I can give you a unique take on things from my perspective and it's not just here's what all the progressives thinks or here's what all the centrist think or here's what all the conservatives think. Yeah. What about the pay difference

between kick and YouTube? Well, I mean the kick thing is because I have like a unique contract with them as an individual. YouTube ads since it's just so good. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who really competes with that right now. So what percentages would you say are coming from these sources? Well, kick now is probably more it's probably more than YouTube for sure. Wow. Yeah. Then YouTube revenue and totality. Is that revenue or profit?

Because I know that you have the clips channel where you pay the editor 50%, which a lot of people in the comments thought that we were saying that that was not a good thing that you're paying like your clips channel. It's really high. Because we were surprised because how much can you say your clips channel editor is making? Why, negotiated them down now to 43% so. 43 down from 50? Yeah. So what's that look like revenue wise?

A lot. What do you mean? A lot? I think last time you said it was like 50K a month. It's probably a little bit higher than that now, yeah. Around that, yeah. That's, that's really, and that's your main channel? Is that your clips channel?

No, no, these are for all three of my channels. So you'd say now that KIC is actually a more significant portion of your revenue than YouTube. Yeah. And how are you spending this money? It goes right into my investment account. And what are you invest in? I'll either, I'll buy meme stuff on stream because I'm like, I have, oh, shit, sorry. I have strong feelings about this particular thing for some stupid.

reason. It usually works out really well. Oh, really? Yeah, like I bought, God, I wish I could remember it. I think it was like a year and a half ago, I bought a whole bunch of meta because I was like, it dropped like, what, like 20% or something? It had a huge drop.

And I was like, did it really feel like it lost that much? And I'm like, I bet people are overreacting. So it always be like dumb. That's the logic. Are you still holding on to Meta stop? No, I don't before the 20% gain. Oh, yeah. It was. It was a huge. Like my investment massively be the ESPB of

So I was happy with that. How much did you throw into meta? I don't remember. It was like three or four hundred thousand. I don't remember. You put in three. Because I, well,

because I'll deposit a bunch of stuff for my checking account to my like, investment account. And I was like buy a meme stock. And then after a year I'll be like, oh, cool. I beat the market. And then I'll sell it.

And then I'll put it into like a S&B500, like VOU, like the O. What if you don't beat the market? What if it underperforms? Do you still sell it or do you just keep it until it? I'm going to be honest. I'm like five for five on my my stupid.

No way. Yeah, well, but it's all gambling at the end of the day. But like, if I lose... But do five for five. Well, it depends when you started. Like, over the last year and a half, everything is basically. Yeah, well, I talk about them on stream because it's funny because I'll talk... Because when I bought meta, it continued to tank for a while.

Because I want to say I bought it like one, like 60. Oh. I think it might have dipped below 100? It did dip below 100. Yeah. And everybody in my community is like making fun, it's like, no, guys, we're going to hold tight, okay? Where are my bag holders out? We're here.

And then, yeah, by the time I saw like a year and some change later, man, I don't remember. I don't, it was significantly beating the SB500, so I felt good on that. So what's the, I did down before the 20% big increase like yesterday, but yeah. So what's the next stock you're buying? I just buy it.

It's just total meme shit. It's a meme shit. You should never copy. I didn't think Facebook meta was a mean stock. I bought like 100K, I think, in that Anheiser Bush shit because so many conservatives is like, I'm going to dump the stock.

That beat the SB 500, barely, but it did. I just have, so I have like the screenshot of that I just want to post to like fuck with conservatives. So you were telling us earlier you didn't like a lot of financial YouTubers. You felt the advice that they give is bad. It's always just like some mean generics that like invest in real estate or something fucking random and I'm like, what does this even mean? I don't know.

Or like crypto or... So what would you like to see more of? More of? Number one is college. Go to fucking school. Really? It is incredibly important. If I could give one piece of advice myself growing up, it would be to study more.

God damn. Yes. Is it absolutely? And you're not being so. I'm not joking. I can't tell you. It is like the easiest path towards like securing a job and moving your way towards a career. Making a big and best for yourself.

But look at the studies, man. What studies? Is this ZipRecruiter? More businesses, yeah, are hiring people without a bachelor's degree. It was something ZipRecruiter now. It was like 50% of businesses did no longer require a bachelor's degree. For what jobs? For their jobs on ZipRecruiter.

Which ones? Nobody's getting an engineering job without a degree. Okay, that's STEM. That's STEM. Sure. So I would agree with you. Okay, I'm sorry. If you want to be like the manager at your local franchise Wendy's, you probably don't need a STEM degree.

Okay, but what are all of the like the, like the, the arts degrees. What about them? I feel like there's plenty of coding. A lot of tech jobs no longer require the bachelor's degree if you're proficient in what you know. Here's the here's the here. I'm so sorry to hurt your feelings if you're listening to me.

If you're, if you want to get into software development and you don't know if you should go to college or not, you absolutely should go to college. The people that get those jobs that didn't need to go to college are people that are already working on stuff. They're like highly driven. They do like all of their own research. They work on programs and they work on projects. And when they go, they, you know, they might practice a little bit for the tech

interview. but they like they pass to interviews. They've got like work they can point to and they're proficient. If you're just some guy who's like 18 are like, well, I heard that I don't need to go to college. And then you'd like do Python for four years and you make like one stupid program and you're like, oh, I want to interview. Like you're not going to hire for anywhere. You're not going to job. Okay.

Well, I think that's a whole different argument. I think we'd probably be an agreement because we, yeah, you and I would advocate if you're in STEM, you should go to college. Just generally speaking, broad strokes here. You should go to college if you want to study STEM. Same thing goes for things like coding, although I'd probably recommend a coding bootcamp because it's a lot less. not as expensive and specialized rather than taking all these undergrad random units like I had to take history of jazz

that gets me nowhere and costs me a bunch of money. It rounds you out as a human being. And if it's costing a bunch of money, because you're going to some stupid fucking private school. You should be doing either community college for two years or a state school. If you're not making money or studying something you're going to be eventually doing it.

You're rounding yourself as a human being. How is it a waste of time? You could be rounding yourself out in the way. I don't remember. I don't remember a single thing. Jazz is America's most important contribution to the entire world of music

and you don't care and you don't remember from that class is Duke Ellington. That's it. Don't even, I can't even name a song from him. That's okay. You know how much time I spent

sitting in that classroom and how much money probably went in even though it was community college. It could have been an actual university and it would have been because you're a well-rounded human being. Not thanks to jazz. I dropped out of college.

It was the opportunity. It was the opportunity. It's the opportunity cost of wasting four years in a school just to go through the motions just to prove that year you know. Because I just feel like you're being told what to do and you're not thinking for yourself. Yeah, welcome to every job

in the world. Being told what to do and not think it for yourself. How many jobs do you give you the creativity? You're not going to be in a Facebook playroom where they give you like Legos. You know, like let's see what projects you guys come up with today. But look at both of us. Both of us are in a very creative field. We're like the one percent of the one percenters though. But who's to say you can't do that.

Reality, most people can't. I feel like people can. Okay, I agree with you. I think to accept the fact that like everyone could do this job would be kind of lunacy. It's the difference feeling like anyone could do this job. Not everybody. Not everybody can do this job. I believe someone really wants to do something within reason most people can accomplish.

You haven't met a lot of NCAA athletes who really think that if they try hard, they can go to the NBA or the NFL or whatever. But that was my exception. You know, obviously, like, I can't play in the NBA. Maybe. But I just think when people go to college and they start studying things that like communications

and they just like, ah, well, I just wanted to go to this college, didn't know what I wanted to do and I know I could get in with communications, that's not going to take them anywhere in life and they're probably going to have $100,000 worth of student loan debt. First of all, if you have $100,000 student loan debt, you are exceptionally indebted.

Okay. What is the average student loan debt? Is it like 30 grand? Yeah. Okay. That's a lot. You've already fucked up. Number one. Number two, I agree with you. Going to school and being aimless is dumb and you shouldn't do that. But better to be aimless in four years and have gotten a degree than to be aimless from 18 to 22 and then what? Get a normal job, knock somebody up and then just be fucked for the rest of your life. You're never going back to school. What are you going to do? That's what you're saying is the only alternative.

And that's not what we would advocate for. Wait, what would you advocate for? If you're not going to college? Yeah. Figure out what you're actually interested in and then actually go pursue that. Okay, that's 1% of people. You're telling me, the problem is people draw from different groups making these arguments.

The person that goes to school and is like, I don't know I want a major, I didn't take one class. That person, okay, don't go to college. It's not out of college. And they're like, I'm going to take a one-year coding boot camp. I'm going to be totally fucking driven. I'm going to study every fucking day. I'm going to remember.

That person who's capable of doing that would probably just go to college at three degrees. Because every, the NPC bots, they think that college is the next route, okay? They think that college is the next route because that's what they've been learning and impressed upon since they were growing up. But if only we maybe had a little bit of a change of culture of like, oh, you want to get a job after college.

Maybe you try this alternative route. Maybe you do this. Instead of just the natural route being just go straight to college. And people are just like, I'm going to do it. Don't know what I'm going to study. Especially if you don't know what to do to get work experience and anything. Work experience. I'm saying the culture needs a change.

Any experience. If you got four years of retail experience, an apprentice for who's going to take an apprentice high school for a good job? Anybody. You could, you could, who? No, they're not. If you're going to college, if you're going to college, you need someone to support you, right? Or you have to get work experience to pay for the college. So in a lot of those cases, you could say, I'm going to intern for this person, I'm going to be this person's assistant.

I want to try this career. I could go to this trade school. I could get my real estate license. There's so many licenses that you could just get on your own. Real estate is for people that fail law school and trades are people that couldn't make it to college. Why would you do? The trades are fantastic. No, they are.

They suck. Why? Why do trades suck? Because they're worse than college degrees, by definition. They pay less, they hurt your body more, the hours suck. It's more demanding work. It's less creatively, like, free. Like, what do you mean? I've heard a lot of trades pay very well.

They don't. You heard lies from people. Here's what happens. Why are they lying? Because they're assholes and because they feel strongly about the profession. Here's what happens. Some asshole will come on is like, yeah, I'm a plumber and I make $250K a year. That person is not a plumber.

That person is a small business owner that employs plumbers. It is never the K. Yeah, you're looking at it up right now. What are you going to do not average. median median annual wage this is 2021 okay so it's a little bit uh wind turbine service technicians 56,000 sure that's an ultra specific part of like a trade I doubt that you like tile and stone setters 47,810 dollars the the ultra specialized trade things that you're talking about are not going to be trade jobs that you get going into the trades and working for two years so what trades are you talking about

these are one that person that's probably doing that probably started doing other types of trade work but you've got to build up to that for 10 or 20 years career floor late You could say the same thing about a doctor. Yeah, but having to do that work, it starts off with less pay. You're a pay per right. Yeah, but in college, you're not earning anything for four years. So by the time you would have graduated college, now you could be a specialist. Yeah, and when you're pulling something back on a slings shot, it's not getting any close to your target.

The whole point about colleges, you're doing an investment in yourself. You take on some early debt to increase your lifetime earnings potential. And if you look at the median wages of almost any college degree over a lifetime of earnings, it's like a million dollar difference between. Yeah, but couldn't that be because they're the type of. to go to college to begin with, if they would have done well regardless. They have the ability to sit there, focus, get a job done, do a task.

Yeah, I don't want to be a mean person. But for a lot of people, life just works better on rails. There are a lot of people where I think it's the exact opposite, where if you take a person, and I know people like this, where they, it sounds so mean because like we have like the dream job

of like, oh, you're your own boss, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is cool. And it's fun. I like that. You too, you must like that if you do this as a job. But there are people who it's like, if you throw them into the wind, they're lost. They're not going to like fucking self-direct and figure out what they need to do for work

or to grow the blah. But if you put them in a certain environment where you're like, here's your jobs, here's your task. They do really well. I think the problem is that the type of person to watch this podcast is not the type of person who wants to be on Rails. Just the fact that they're listening to a financial-based podcast makes them the exception. That's what I like to think.

I super disagree. I would fight you to the death on this because people will say things like, like that's more delusional than the every single person that thinks. they have ADHD, has ADHD take. Like, I think that a lot of people like the idea of like financial independence and being their own boss and blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, that's stressful stuff. Like, not knowing where your next paycheck is coming from, having to chase down your own

leads, having to create your own opportunities, not having a guy to just tell you what to do. That's an incredibly high level of stress. Some people, I think, the exception, like less than 5% are super built for that. You guys probably are. I know that I am because you guys do a podcast. everything you must be, I would imagine. But for a lot of people, that is incredibly stressful. Right, but that's for being your own boss. Like, we were talking about just certain trades and other

jobs that didn't necessarily require a college degree. Any path that's not going to a traditional four-year college. Yeah, I would say, if you know what you want to do for a career, you snipe it and maybe the snipe, you know, you got to go through college, which I think is totally fine. But if you're going into college and you just have no idea, you're going to be taking all of these undergrads and you're just going to be past killing time, essentially. I understand. And that could be the case. But that person that might go to college and have no idea, if they just spent four years doing nothing except for working and had no idea, that person is in a much higher likelihood of destroying their life than the person that goes to college for four years. I know. But the thing is that the culture says the only normal route that people should go on is straight to college.

But maybe if we shifted the culture a little bit more to like, hey, there are other alternative options where you don't have to take on so much debt and spend so much time going through the system, then I think that it would actually make sense. I think if there were other stronger alternatives, I would agree. but right now, like, that path towards going to college, getting your degree. I feel like it's getting less and less prestigious. Like, the college degree is no longer this barrier anymore. It seems like it's become so common that it's lost its meaning. You know, what else is common is GEDs, but we wouldn't tell people to drop out of middle school. I mean, yeah, college degrees are common and they're ubiquitous.

But, I mean, that's because the level of education needed. The American workers are more productive today than they happen at any point in history, right? Like, the level of education and everything you need for society today to participate in the economy is getting higher and higher and higher and higher. So of course degrees are becoming more and more and more than norm. I agree that there are paths that you can take that don't involve college that will set you up for success in life. But I don't see any regular general things that I would just push a bunch of people afterwards. I think it's up to the individual at that point. That doesn't mean anything.

Everything in life is up to the individual. But the reality is we can look at data, we can look at numbers. And we can see on average, like, you know, how do you perform if you go to this area in life? How do you perform if you go to this area? You know, if you get a high school degree, you're probably going to be fucked. If you go to the trades, you do better than high school. If you do a four-year degree in college, especially in STEM, you're probably going to be doing the best. But if you're outside of STEM and being a lawyer and stuff like that, I just know that, like, so many people in my own personal life, because I'm kind of at that age now, 25 where a lot of my friends, family, et cetera, have just gotten out of college recently.

And they're kind of just like, okay, well, what do I do if they don't have a STEM degree? Well, then they probably have rich families. Fuck them. Let them study what they want and have fun. If you want to go and be an English major or a history major or an art major, I mean, if you have passion for that, then do that. If you go to school and you're like, I'm going to be a history major, and you come and I'm like, God, I can't find a job that pays me 85K, 95K year. You're probably fucking retarded. I don't think they have passions.

A lot of them are just like, they're 18, I'm going to go to college, kind of bum around for four years, figure out what I want to do. By the end of it, I might know what I want to do. What would they have done in the interim? Like, what would they have done outside of college? And they would have magically stumbled into their passion? Okay. I think they'd understand more if they go into the real world and get actual experience. But like, what experience?

Like, when you guys talk about experience, I feel like you guys ever read the Odyssey or, Or the Iliad. It sounds like you're talking about these heroic journeys where it's like get your backpack on and go and travel through all of Europe

and work a collection of odd jobs and all these different places and like at the end of all of this magical excitement and adventure you'll discover who you are. The reality is

at 18 if you don't go to college what that usually means is it's time to go find a bullshit job and start working for the rest of my life. Because what other experiences? But you can try bullshit jobs in different careers and say you know what?

You say career. What are the careers? I'm thinking like you work at McDonald's and then you go and you work at fucking Walmart and you, what are the career? your jobs you're getting at 1819 with no experience. I like to think that you could be anyone's

assistant. What does that mean? Let's just say you want to be an artist. You could find an artist in your area and say, hey, I just want to work with you, see what you do, I'll do anything for you. I talk a lot about doing this. This is what's worked really well for me. And if you're going to be in college, chances are you're going to spend your time in a classroom or spend your time actually doing something. So if you spend your time working with someone or in an industry that you want to be in, you could determine pretty quickly if you like it or not. I think that would work if you're a really hot girl and you're trying to intern with guys

because they'll hire you or have you be their assistant because they want to fuck you. But other than that, realistically, I'm just trying to think like... I think passion and enthusiasm or something. I'm sorry, but there's... For Graham, it works for me. I don't want to sound like disrespectful towards younger people,

but like passion is a dime a dozen. I don't give a fuck about passion. And I don't think anybody that works well gives a fuck about passion. What you care about is, what have you done? So show me a portfolio. Are you reliable and on time?

Can you return an email in 24 hours? Are you, like, actually a reliable person that could show up whether you need to be? And then, like, yeah, what can you do for me? I don't think a random 18-year-old showing up at the doorstep of, like, a 30-year-old musician. Like, I really want to help an intern or whatever. Unless this guy's got, like, anything in his past. Like, maybe you- Jack didn't have anything his past. Jack just cold emailed me.

He was like, hey, I want to come work? Several times over the course of several months. I was very persistent, constantly showing up at the top of the inbox. And then finally, I was like six months of emails. What was your, why did you hire Jack? Well, he didn't hire me, per se. He just said, hey, I have all this extra work, and I just want to offload it. And I said, give me anything.

Let me provide value. And I just inserted myself kind of in the business. And that was that. What was your, how did you email him? What were you offering? How did I email him? I offered him literally anything. I was like, I mean, I think I mentioned in the email like, yo, if you want me to walk

Ramsey, which is his cat or pick up Ramsey's poop, I will do it. Just tell me one thing. I live an hour away. I could drive to you. Do whatever you want whenever you want it. And I'll just provide value. And then finally he got back to me. And he wasn't the only person that I hit.

Like I hit three creators in total, and I sent each of them several emails. Another creator got back to me. So what do you, and why did you say yes? A lot of that was his persistence. I saw six months of emails. And he was at the top of the inbox at a time where I was really trying to offload this work. And I was offering people in my office at the time, will you help me with this work? I'll pay you $20 an hour.

No one did it for like two months. And it was building up. I saw Jack's email. I was like, I'll do anything. I thought, you know what? let's put this to the test. Will he actually do it? You want to do these Facebook emails?

Let me know. Jack was like, yes, I'll do it. He finished it overnight. And then after that, I saw his work ethic, how quick he was. He was very responsive. And I said, you know what? I'll take you to dinner. Let's talk about it.

And I really appreciate your help. And then from there, I gave him all these other tasks. I was like, okay, you know what? You did well on this. I had this other thing. Do you want to go through my emails? And just pick people who you think would be good on my second channel. Yes, absolutely I'll do it.

Okay, here's what I'm looking for. Just let me know. I understand once you've got it initially in. Yeah, I don't know. I have hundreds of people that email look for stuff like that. I would never just take a random person. Like, I would need to see, like, what have you done in the past? Well, I think they might be shooting up a little bit too high up the ladder in fairness at this point.

Like, I think if you're going to try to find a mentor-Mitory relationship, I think you need to go like a few steps ahead of you rather than just shooting for the stars. I had at the time, like 500,000 subscribers, which was big, but small enough where I was still doing everything 100% myself. So every email was like me reading it personally. But that's also how I got like everywhere, every business I've ever gone into or every bit of work I've done has been just purely asking.

I mean, he had the same thing, a mentor-mente relationship. I reached out to H3-H3. He had millions of subscribers at the time and he'd get back to me because his inbox was probably flooded with stuff like. I'm sure it's possible to do this. I just don't think it'll be the norm.

Like how many people emailed you asking to help? You said he was at the top of your inbox so there were a ton of other people asking to help? Probably, but. So he was one of... But you know what's funny? I get some of those Instagram ones where it's like day one of asking Graham for blank.

Day two, they'll give up on like day 10. But do you think if they went to day 100, you be like, I am going to hire you? No, not hire, but someone's like day one until Graham calls my cell phone. Or like, I'm not talking about hiring somebody based on 100 DMs, but I'm talking about a low level lift

till Graham comments on my YouTube videos since Graham calls me like a minor lift thing and they'll give up after like a week, week and a half. Like when I started working as a real estate agent, I would go to open houses every single Sunday for months just to talk to other agents. And it took months.

Okay, I'm curious. And someone offered me, like, hey, you know what? You want to come work under me? Go for it. Okay. Neither you have children, right? No. If you did have kids that were like 15, 16 years old

and they were thinking like, I think I might want to go to college, you would say at 18, actually, I think what you should do is you just start emailing a bunch of people to see if you can work on them instead? No, I would say, what do you want to do? What do you want to do with, what is a college degree going to give you that you can't go and do right now? What is the barrier that a college degree is going to help you over the, And if they say, well, I want to be a lawyer.

And to do that, I need to pass the L-Sat. And to do that, I need to, absolutely. You want to be a doctor. I need the college degree. But if they said, you know what, I don't really know. The college is just pushing off that decision of what am I going to do to a later day. Yeah. The other thing, if they came to me and say, hey, you know what, I want to go to college

because it looks like a lot of fun. And I want to go because I want to be around a whole bunch of people my age and we're in the same. Then at least I understand why. But if it's, I don't know what I want to do. and I feel like this, everyone else is going, so I should go. I would really say, like, why do you want to do this? Is it just be everyone else you conformity?

They weren't sure. They're like, I don't know what I want to do yet. Hopefully, if I figured out my first two years or whatever, you would say, don't do that. You should. I would see if there's an alternative. I would say, if you don't know what you want to do, what do you, I feel like as a parent,

you would know by age 16, 17, where their passions are. Are they really good at something? Do they hate Matt? Do they love science? If they love science, Is there a field in there that they want to go into? Does that require a degree? I'd really try to narrow it down for the person.

The idea I think is being intentional about your decisions rather than just kind of following the norm and thinking that that's going to be the solution to your problems rather than like actually. So I don't disagree with that ever. Intentionality is always good. And I think if you're intentional, there might be some paths that aren't college

that are better than just wasting time in college. I don't disagree with that. I just don't like the idea that it feels like when we talk about not going to college, We're talking about a whole group of people that are kind of like lost in college. And then we say, well, if you just don't go to college and you do something else, you'd be so much more successful,

that's probably not going to be the case. I think if you're kind of not sure what to do after high school, this is what I would say. For the group of people that aren't sure what to do after high school, they're probably better served going to college, even if it takes them five years to get their degree

than to just start working right out of high school because the fear or the possibility of getting stuck in the rat race when you're 18 or 19 and then never being able to revisit any other opportunity. I just think it's too scary in my opinion. but because life can set in like really quick to where now you're one year out of high school

you might have a relationship you might have kind of like a job and it kind of pays so now you're cut off from like a lot of financial aid you're already out of high school for a year maybe two now you're 20 do you really want to go fucking study again and do homework and blah blah blah blah and now you're 25 and maybe you've got a kid and it's like you're not going to apprentice you're not going to do internships you're 25 you're working maybe you're like the manager at some you know supermarket or some bullshit and now you're just that's kind of the rest of your life there is no like go back. Like when you're 18,

you have this really unique opportunity where it's the only time of your life where you still get to exclusively study, exclusively invest in yourself, not have to worry about like working a job, taking care of a family, or any bullshit. And if you want to not do the college thing,

that's fine, but I think you have to have a really like a damn good idea of what you want to do as an alternative. It's better to wander aimlessly in college than it is to wander aimlessly outside of college and then to never, ever, ever, ever have an opportunity for a degree.

That's my take, but I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think if you're one of the 82% of students, pulled up the statistic, that goes to college and doesn't study STEM, you should really consider what job you're trying to get with whatever degree you're pursuing. And I think maybe if we remove the stigma, the taboo idea of not going to college straight after high school and pursuing some alternative career and maybe like, you know, maybe provided more information and roots that you can and paths that you can take in your life, I think it would be a lot more productive.

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Yeah, speaking of working, what are your thoughts on the fire movement? What is that? Financial independence, retirement early. Grinding away in your 20s, early 30s, saving religiously to be able to retire by 35. If you enjoy it, go for it, I guess. Some guy said something to me that that was really fucking stupid, and I had no counter to it. And I was really interesting. I was talking to some other, it must have been a stream of a YouTuber guy, something. And I think we were both like in our late 20s.

And I save a lot of my money, just not even because I'm a good saver. I just don't spend much because I don't need much. and this guy blew through his money like crazy and I just remember asking I was like are you not worried

that like once this whole streaming shit ends or whatever that when you're like 40 or 50 you're gonna be like completely bankrupt and the guy was like

I probably will be I'm probably gonna run out of money yeah probably like a decade or two or whatever or earlier and I'm like okay is that not like worrisome to you

and he's like well why the fuck would I want to have fun in my 40s and 50s when I got to have fun right now my 20s and I wanted to say like what a stupid thing to say

and I actually had no response to that whatsoever so I don't know I think there's like good arguments on both sides. If you want to do that grind away and, you know, the fire stuff and be financially independent, retired by 3540, that's cool. But I mean, your 20s and your 30s and hopefully your 40s, like these are unique, fun, cool times in your life. And if you grind all of that away, like working like crazy, I don't know. Is that really worth it? I'm not sure. I think it'd

be up to an individual to decide that. Yeah. Would you guys fall on that? My experience has been, it's been 100% worth it. Like, for me, my 20s. You don't count. You don't count. Because he finds enjoyment and purpose. I do. Yeah, because I'm doing fire. I can retire right now, but I'm not, I'm not like grinding away my life. I love my job. Every fucking day I love my job. But if I was, like, trying to go for a partner at a law firm, or if I was, like, doing, you know, hospital-related stuff,

or if I was, like, just grinding hard, small business, like, working every single part, every single day. And I really hate in my life, but I've got to make it to 35 or 40 to retire. I think that's fundamentally different. I don't know. I just feel like there's nothing in my 20s that I couldn't do in my 30s. Here are the things that would scare me is that one is health-related stuff could crop up. still a minority, but like in your 30s, you're more likely to run into some stupid, like, chronic pain

or some, like, chronic condition or whatever that starts to inhibit your ability to have fun a little bit. That would be scary. Minority of people, not a big deal. But the second thing, I think, would be your incongruency with other people in life. And I think that would fuck you up the most, be my guess.

So, for instance, if you're in your 20s, everybody else in their 20s, and you're all kind of like having fun and goofing off and being a little irresponsible, you all get to do that together. And then when you get to your 30s, you're all kind of like getting more mature, and then you get to do that together.

I think it would be kind of weird if you're like 33. I'm 33, $2.5 million, okay, in my investment account. I feel really good in life. I think I want to slow down and chill right now.

And then I look at my friends and they're like, well, we just had our second kids. We just got another mortgage in the house. Life is really stressful right now. We had all of our fun 10 years ago. It's time to grow the fuck up.

Okay, Graham, we're busy. We're trying to live life now. And you're like, okay, well, I want to have fun now. I wonder, hey, how do you ever worry about that? He wants to be the one 30-year-old old in Epizia. He's having fun?

Yeah. All the college kids. Yeah, then you go to the college parties. Then you go, okay. Yeah. I agree 100% with you. I think, like, I always question why am I working so hard, at least on the things I don't enjoy.

I'm very much the same as like both of you where there's a large portion of my work where I absolutely love it. There's a very small portion of my work where I'm like, okay, I really, like it stresses me out. It's like the 80-20 thing. Yeah. And I question myself, why am I working so hard for this to make money? What do I want the money for? To be able to live a life that I could currently probably be living, like playing

pickle ball a couple nights a week, like hanging out with my friends, playing poker and stuff like that. That's this type of stuff I enjoy. And I don't want to sacrifice that now because I'm just working so hard to be able to eventually do that down the line. Yeah. I find that you find people who you're in the same spot in life with, though. Like you mentioned that, you know, people are settling down and having kids, not being in the same spot, but from my experience, and this could just be through YouTube, that it's less about a person's age and more about like what they're doing with their time right now. So I gravitate towards the people that are in the same place as me in life, regardless of if they're 22 or they're 62.

Yeah, and I mean, you can do that if you don't mind that. But for more conventional work, I don't know how people would feel. Because I agree, like, the average age of the person that was, like, coming through my stream and shit is like, fucking like 24 or something. These people are all, how old are you guys? 33. 33. 35. Yeah, you're a kid.

Okay? I can barely even send a look at you. Okay. Jesus. But, yeah, no, like, everybody's, like, super young. So it's, I don't know, like, if you were in conventional work grinding away like that, if you could very easily be, like, 33, 35, have a lot of money. and then go and find a bunch of like 20 to 25 year olds who are kind of like ready to like chill and you know hang out and have fun I think it would be kind of off yeah yeah I found a lot of older people

who are in the chill mode like and older people I mean in like their 40s but uh it seems as though no matter where you are in life you could find other people who have the same interests and are in the same spot as you that you could relate to sure here's like another question I would have two two other things um one relates to like dieting okay so I think that when it comes to like putting together a good diet if you're like if that's something you're trying to do i think rather than having like the pain horrible agony diet for a few months or like a diet we have to have cheat days like find ways to make a healthy diet that's like fun um but healthy like that's easily doable right get rid of like super processed foods like the all-dry carb shit um the super sugar like just like really

dumb shit like that um and you can generally put together a diet that is like it's fun but like it's healthy and you have like all of your needs kind of met i feel like the fire stuff is similar, like, is it not possible to work and spend in a way that's, like, responsible in terms of your finances, but it's like, you're still working hard, but you can also, like, have fun. Wouldn't that be, like, a better way to go through life rather than to front load all of your stuff and then hope to read the rewards in the event? But then you make a balance between do I say 50%? Do I save 30%? 20%, if I, if I say 15%, I have to work an extra 20 years. Is that worth it? You just find a trade-off. Sure. Because my second question would be for you, for you, for

You too, especially you, do you think you'll ever, do you think you would ever actually retire early? Maybe. You think so? I do. Okay. Yeah, but like the pod, I keep going back to this. The podcast is something for me I could do for a very long time. The main channel, probably give that up at some point.

Travel, I would love to do. I'd probably, I like tinkering on things. I like collecting things. I like hobbies. I think you really enjoy the podcast right now. And if the podcast were to die out and you decided to quit your main channel, eventually you'd get this urge again. Like I think most people do. where you're just like, okay, I want to start working on something.

And that's just it. You just currently only have the podcast, right? And back in the day, you probably thought, I could do this main channel thing for a really long time. No, I knew, I knew immediately. Immediately that you'd have to stop. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's why I was so careful about saving it all, because I just thought, this is not going to last forever, because I've been watching YouTube since, like, 2009, and I see the lifespan of creators. Like, YouTube has been my TV since then. And I see, okay, creators got big. The last maybe two, three years. I was going to say, yeah, three, five years is like your upper limit for the average.

Exactly. So, and then I saw some creators are having more longevity. So I thought immediately going into it, best case, five to seven years. And that's like if everything goes right, five to seven years. What about real estate agenting? Did you feel like you could do that forever? I didn't want to. So, but I loved it. I loved doing it, but I didn't, I hated having to for, not like, I hated meeting a sale to happen. So I hated the going into. to it be like, if this deal doesn't close, it's going to ruin my day and like, you know, I'm not going to be able to save it. I hated doing that. So every deal I closed, it was like, okay, I'm going to pretend like this is the last money I'm ever going to make.

And how can I make this last for as long as possible? And that was my reason for saving. That makes sense. I think I agree with you. You guys just draw the line differently on the spectrum of, okay, how much you were supposed to work, how much supposed to save and play and have fun. So the type of people that I feel would be driven to do that fire stuff, I feel like are the type of people that wouldn't be happy to be like, ah, 35.

I'm done with everything, time to chill. But I could be wrong. I feel like those people would always be driven and do so. I don't want the financial independent subredits all the time. And it does seem like it's split evenly in the middle. There are some people who had these hobbies and they quit their job and they retire to something. And there's other people who have just always been working and then they quit because they can. And then they're aimless and depressed and they have no idea what they're doing and they're sad and they just go back to work.

So I really, it seems like a 50-50 split depending on the type of person. Is there anything else that financial YouTubers are talking about that you don't like? I feel like the basics should always be stressed. So your IRA contribution should probably be maxed out if you're trying to save 401K matches. Absolutely are what you're going for. And then if you're trying to figure out like whenever people are trying to figure out like living expenses, people focus on income. I think sometimes more than outflow. Like making a budget is probably one of the most important things you can ever do when you're trying to control for financial anything.

if you don't know where your money's going. And then otherwise, just like boring. So it seems like we're on the same, because that's exactly what I talk about. So it seems like when we're talking about, like, financial people, you're more so referencing the hustle culture. Yeah, the hustle culture, crypto,

all that shit, then those are two entirely different segments of like finance YouTube. Yeah, gotcha. Like the Gary V. sort of, you know, work, work. Okay. I wanted to ask you this,

if you think there should be, because we're talking about spending money, progressive penalties. in terms of... Yeah, I love to do. So this came up when I saw in another country someone who got a...

Yeah, was it the $80,000 speeding ticket? Yeah. It was either Norway or Finland, I think. I think it was Norway or Finland, I think it was no way. Yeah. How much money did they have? It was based on an income of like $10 million a year,

like $20 million a year. Yeah, fuck them. And so... But apparently it was only going like eight miles an hour over the limit or something like that, but that was the $80,000. So I heard you talking about before

if someone goes and gets a speeding ticket here in the United States, $500. For someone who's working minimum wage, that don't screw them up for like maybe half a year. And their insurance rates will go up. It could be a devastating thing.

For someone with money, the $500 speeding ticket is just, you're going to basically rip it up, give it to a lawyer. I haven't gotten a long time. Are they $500 on average now? I got one recently. How fast you're going?

I was going allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly they said I was going, it was in a 65 going faster than 60, no, no, no, gosh no, no, it was not, no, allegedly. A hundred? No, no. It wasn't that much over the limit

allegedly. It was a 65? He wrote you to take it up going to 79, didn't he? It was, it was something stupid. It was something stupid, but anyway. What state am I around? Are we in, we're in California? We're in Nevada. We're in Nevada. Five hundred dollars, damn. No, it wasn't 500. That one was like $370. Oh, okay. But then you also have to think of, you know, if you opt for traffic school, then that's another 80 bucks on top of that.

So all these little things that add up, you know, it could be close to $500. Okay. So you like progressive penalties? Yeah. I did too. I've never heard about that until when we were going over our questions before you came over. And I think that's actually, it makes a lot of sense. I think it's weird that you can pay to like not have shit bother you.

It seems kind of strange when it's like criminal stuff, yeah. I feel like for the legal system, honestly, people that use the legal system as a weapon against other people, especially if you're like punching downwards, I feel like you should suffer in the same way that other people are suffering. Well, the legal system is highly flawed because if you're somebody with money, you could basically write out any lawsuit

and you could allege anything you want to and the other person has to pay to fight it. I mean, kind of. I mean, there's a vexatious litigation. If you've got to go to a law team, you can get stuff like you can do motions for summary judgment and say that this is a bullshit court case.

There are some protections against that. Yeah, how much is it going to cost to get to that point? 20 grand, 15 grand, depending on the case. That's a heavy retainer for depending on the type of case. But I mean, like, hopefully five grand or less. I mean, I agree that, like, yeah, the legal system can be weighted in favor of, like, more wealthy people, for sure. Absolutely. That's undeniable, yeah.

Yeah. It's just not as hopeless as people make it out to be. But, yeah, I think it's kind of weird that criminal stuff especially can be reliant on your financial means in terms of your engagement with the system and how likely you are to come out good on the other end. That's not cool. It's really about hiring, I guess, the best lawyer that you can. Yeah. He just argues better than the other lawyer. We had a divorce lawyer on who was talking about how he wins cases against other, you know,

lawyers just because he's so much better and the people that could afford to hire him know that he has a higher success rate because of that. You're going through a divorce right now. I'm done with my divorce. You're done with a divorce right now. I heard divorces could take a very long time.

No contest divorce. It's like two weeks. Really? Just sign the papers and send him into a judge and they look at it and they give you a judgment and you're done, yeah. And you had a pre-nup? No. It was a short marriage. It was like less than five years.

So what does that mean if it's a short marriage versus a long marriage? longer marriage there's going to be a stronger case to be made for alimony but it also depends on if the earning potentials of your partner was hurt so if they stopped working or if you've got children or shared assets or anything like that you were in an open marriage which means each partner can sleep with other people and have these like kind of micro relationships with other people a lot of people were speculating that it would eventually fail what is your response to those people that say what did you think was going to happen i mean most relationships fail had four monogamous ones before for this open one and they all failed. That is true. But I guess the difference was that you weren't married to those. I was married to my high school girlfriend. Okay.

Got me. I mean, most relationships failed. I mean, I can make a prediction. The next relationship will definitely be an open relationship because it's probably the only style I would do. And that one will probably fail as well. I mean, just statistically speaking, like, it will probably happen. But were there signs that it was going in this direction

ahead of time? Yeah, for sure. There were just things I had to learn about myself. Would you have to learn about yourself? I think because of the way that I grew up, I'm very much a, like, I have to do everything and I'm like very, very, very independent. And I always thought that was a really good character trait. And I think it is for like business stuff, but I think for relationships, I think it's really bad

because you tend to take, um, rather than ever assigning any responsibility or blame to my partner, I would have just assume that I need to figure out everything for myself. And then I'm also like very not reliant on my partner for anything, which I also thought was like a benefit. But it's not. It just makes the other person feel like unwanted or unwinded or unlawful. needed. Go into that a little bit more because I'm, I don't want to say I'm similar, but I'm very much the same way where if something happens, I deep down, I look to myself and I'm like,

how could I have handled that? Because you can't dictate what another person's going to respond with or do. And I look at that and like, how can I improve myself? Where did I go wrong? Yeah. And I like to think of myself as like very independent and I don't want to like throw too much on my partner. So I think the issue here is every single piece of advice I'm about to give. a lot of the people that say this are actually the most energy vampiric subhuman piece of shit bucks in the world so it's hard

it's like that whenever you see somebody tweet like oh like everybody around me always needs so much and I wish somebody would just like take care of me for once 99% of the time that's an energy fucking vampire okay who actually is the most like energy consuming sucking person that doesn't help anybody else out except when I can benefit them blah blah blah so technically I say with a grain of salt maybe I am that person

basically I would get into conflict where it felt like my partner was able to justify every bad action they did on my prior bad actions. And I had done bad things. Like, I'm not perfect. I do fuck up. I make mistakes. But every time they made a mistake, it was because of mistakes that I'd made. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, well, fuck. Like, well, what can I do to change this in the future? Like, can I do this? Or can I change this? Or can I do that? And every time there was a fault that was my fault, like, it's my fault. And I'll do what I can for it. And then I'll see what

behaviors I can change. But I never could like tell my partner, like, hey, can you not do this? Or can you make this change or can you stop this behavior because then it was like the end of the world. So but that was, I set that dynamic up because I've gone through the whole relationship, never being able to make any asks for anything in terms of behavior from the other person. And it kind of, yeah, not was not good, I think, yeah. Got it. So in a new relationship, you're going to be more outspoken? Yeah, I just have a hard time asking for things from people.

I kind of just like meme and joke, even professionally sometimes. I've gotten better at it recently the past like two years especially, but I'll kind of like, If somebody's making me uncomfortable, I usually just like meme or joke it off or it's whatever until they reach a breaking point. And then I cut them out of my life completely. And for a lot of people, that's really confusing because they're like, okay, well, hold on. How did I just get cut out completely? I didn't know I was even bothering you. And it's like, well, and then I'll say something like, well, come on, you should have known.

This is obvious. But then when I think of it, it was actually not obvious because I laugh and meme everything off. So it's like people don't actually know. Did this come out of the blue for you? Um, no, I don't think so, no. No? No. Is there anything you would have done differently leading up to the situation that happened?

like getting divorced or No, I'm talking about maybe You could have done something prior to then That maybe would have had a different outcome Or you could have saved something I think my general behavior in the relationship Of not like putting like very Not being able to make asks for things

Or accepting or tolerating certain types of behavior That I were probably not okay I guess so like having like there I need somebody that shares my values In terms of what's important And what's not important in a relationship I guess Yeah and if somebody doesn't share those same values.

So, for instance, like, trashing your partner to another person to another friend, that's something that I, traditionally I would never do that. And I need somebody that, like, is aligned on that. And if I let somebody else do that, and I'm like, well, they view things differently

than I do, whatever. That's probably not a good thing, I think, yeah. Okay. You seem to be a very matter of fact about it. How did it affect you personally or emotionally going through something like this? Was it really challenging? Because it's kind of weird hearing you talk about it

in such a, I would say, nonchalant way. Yeah, my emotional baseline is just really, really, really high. So as long as I'm not like my life isn't fucked, if I go to sleep, I wake up, I'm usually a little bit better, you know, every day. And I just kind of, yeah, keep going. I got it. Do you ever wish you had more emotional variance? I don't think so, maybe. I'm not sure. Talk to a few people, Dr. Kay, a couple other people about that.

I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if I miss some things in life because my emotional variance maybe isn't that high, but I don't think so. I think I'm doing fine. Because being super sad can be a really pleasant experience, oddly enough, because you can find the beauty and the sadness. Maybe. I mean, it's all part of the experience. Fuck that, no, I don't think so at all. Fuck that, no. It doesn't sound like fun to me. Interesting.

Like watching a sad movie? Yeah, that's definitely. I enjoy that. I would say that's kind of like a proxy for what I'm saying. Okay. Then I do sadness by proxy then, okay? Interesting. Well, I respect the emotional baseline. Do you think that most people have more control over their emotions than what they think? Probably not. Most people probably have less control over their emotions than they think. That's true for me, I think. There are times where I'll just be a, like, can dick and I'm just being just not a not a fun person to be around and then I'll like eat a meal and after I eat I'm like oh shit I think I was hungry for like the past six hours because I feel

so much better now I'll go back to my chat unbanned like six people that I ban because I'm just like in a fucking whatever mood so yeah I think that most people's moods or vibes are impacting their emotional state more than they realize some the chemical reactions going on in yeah whatever's happening there that's really interesting I I'm more of a proponent of like I think people can force feeling whatever way nearly at every given situation obviously Obviously, there are certain random statistical anomaly. Like, bad stuff will happen and you'll feel sad. But I think for the most part, like, if you feel yourself being very impatient with something,

you just have to, like, have an instant of gratitude and you can force yourself feeling more positive about it. I don't 100% disagree. I would qualify it a little bit. Like, you can have, like, feelings and then responses to those feelings. And if you enact like certain behaviors or if you try to have, like, certain thoughts in response to feelings, you can slowly change the feelings, I think, like that. Yeah, there's like a feedback loop there that if any time you feel this way about a particular person or thing, you just think like, okay, maybe this isn't the best

where I need to be this a little bit differently. If you do that, that process, I think over time can change your thoughts, yeah. Was there any financial impact of having a divorce? No, just good. I just have to worry about myself now, I would say. Interesting, so it wasn't, like, expensive. You didn't have to pay out anything.

I think I paid like $2,000 for an attorney and all the filing fees or whatever, yeah. That's really fascinating. Was it no contest divorce? I mean, it's super cheap, yeah. You hear a lot of people say, oh, you're going to lose half. Yeah, most people are fucking retarded.

Why would I? You should never lose Losing half implies It's a whole bunch of... First of all, first of all, first of all, all right? The end of them even involve alimony. Division of assets is probably a good thing.

You should be dividing assets. You probably should be losing half because you're losing half your partnership that you use to acquire those assets, right? If you're a man and you work and the only reason you were able to afford that house because a wife stayed home and took care of kids,

then yeah, of course, she should be entitled to something. Like she'd sacrificed her entire career and enabled you and empowered you to go and work that job. I mean, I think you should, yeah. Do you regret having your relationship so public? No, everything in my life is public. And would you get married again? I don't know.

I'm not like a big marriage guy. We got married because she needed the green card to live in the U.S. because I don't want to have a long distance relationship. That sucks. But I'm not like a huge marriage, dude. And hopefully I don't have any more European bride. So, you know. And you think the next relationships that you get into will be open.

Almost for sure, yeah. Almost for sure. Yeah. I still can't help believe what I mentioned the first time you came on the show, which was I feel like the standards for levels of attraction. and love and intimacy are just lower for the people that have open relationships because I can't imagine myself.

I haven't been this way my entire life. I don't plan on being this way for the rest of my life where I find somebody and I'm happy to share this person with a bunch of other people. Like I feel like I just kind of want them for myself and I want them to want me for themselves. Okay.

What do you think about this? I don't even think about like I want this person to want me for themselves. It's like not like when I'm with somebody, never thinking like intimately like god i'm so happy that she just wants me and not anybody else this is not like a thing that's every my head i guess but the reason you're not even feeling that in the first place it's like these deep emotional feelings about somebody else that's what i'm saying there's like a deeper level of intimacy or connection what does that have to do whether or not

they're with somebody else when they're not with you i think what jack's trying to say is if you had like maybe a deeper connection or yeah i'm saying like i think that the connections are slightly more shallow in open relationships because of what is okay for for it to happen in a relationship Okay. I mean, I could just say I think the connections and monogamous relationships are way more shallow because if that person is with anybody else, all of a sudden, everything you feel about that person is now held at risk. I don't think necessarily any shallow or less shallow. I think just different people have different approaches to relationships, I guess. I don't know. Do you love your child less if you have a second one? I don't think that that's necessarily the same thing. I didn't say it's the same thing. I'm just saying that like when I'm with somebody, if I really love somebody, there's a lot of things that I'm thinking about for why I love this person. be the way that we spend time together. It might be some level of like physical attraction. It might be some level of like sexual and romantic chemistry. It might be like their sense

of humor, their ambition. It might be like personality traits. It might be hobbies or things we do together. But it's never my life is it like, I'm so happy that they're not going to be with somebody else when we stop hanging out. That's just not like a thing that I think about much. And if it would, and if we were just together and we weren't hanging with anyone else, I don't know why they would make any like them anymore or I would care any more about that. Local news is in decline across Canada, and this is bad news for all of us. With less local news, noise, rumors, and misinformation fill the void, and it gets harder to separate truth from fiction.

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Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. Right. I would say it's more so like the sacrifice that each person makes to the other person. I want them to sacrifice that.

Because I think it's a part of the relationship. That sounds horrible. Why would I? Like, what have I found out to my partner every morning for 30 minutes, like stuck like needles into their nipples and like every day like, God, I'm so happy to that sacrifice. Like, why would I want them to sacrifice? I don't know. How do I think sacrifice is good in and of itself? I think it's the idea of putting someone else above yourself.

So I think in most relationships You'll say you'll both make sacrifices To be in that relationship And if you give a little, you take a little It shows that you value the other person Yeah, but the goal should always be to minimize the sacrifice I don't want my partner sacrificing more than they need to Right? Like if I'm sick, I'd want them to take care of me

But I don't want them to like clean up like all my shit around my apartment Because I'm a child and I can't do anything for me, right? Like whatever sacrifice we're making should be in service to something that we feel is important If you think monogamy is important or sexual exclusivity is important Then the sacrifice is yeah, I think good or respectable but if you don't care about that, then I don't know, I wouldn't. Like, sacrifice isn't good just because it's sacrifice, right?

Like, I could go out right now to traffic and sacrifice myself and die, and you'd be like, what the fuck did you do the phone? It's like, shouldn't you be grateful? I suck for your podcast. I sacrifice myself for the podcast. It's like, you didn't actually help with anything. You didn't do anything. Yeah.

Okay. I suppose for me, I just think, like, if I'm in a relationship with someone, I want them constantly choosing me over anybody else. So technically, that would be an open marriage, but they're just not executing on the openness of the marriage, you know? I think any relationship would technically open. because you could just go and leave if you really wanted to. But then you end the relationship.

If you cheat everything as an open relationship. But then you end the, but at the sacrifice of ending their relationship. Sure. I think there's some level of people wanting to feel like they're the number one choice in every regard for their partner. They might want to have that feeling. So the exclusivity is really important because it reinforces that.

Yeah. Where do you think morals come from? Probably the same thing is the political beliefs. We inherit them from our social groups, basically. The social groups. So if you're going into a Christian, Islamic, you know, American family, like your morals are going to suspiciously resemble basically all the people around

you, probably because that's where you get them from. So when did you start adopting your current philosophical and moral beliefs? Was that influenced by your environment? Probably. So I grew up like very Catholic. I went to a Catholic school until I graduated high school. Around 1516, I started to kind of like

pivot towards atheism. And when I became atheist, I started to read a lot of, or I read two books by Einrand. And I noticed after that I was like full on like this is the smartest person ever. I'm like a card carrying objectivist like this is the best thing ever. I love this so much. And then I realized after like six months I was like okay well hold on. I just ditch my religion and then I read one author and the first author that I read I happen to agree with every single thing they said and I want to follow her

to the end of the earth. I'm probably just a stupid kid. I'm probably just like believing whatever the fuck stuff I read. So I need to like take a step back. I need to not let other people like influence me so much. I need to figure out like on a fundamental core level like what's important to me. And then once I've kind of like ironed out these fundamental core beliefs, then I can from there start to extrapolate these into the political world around me, basically, yeah, or the social world around me, I guess, yeah. So I try to be relatively independent, but, I mean, invariably I'm going to be influenced by whatever video games I'm playing, movies or anime or TV shows I'm watching, or the people around me, the country I'm in everything as well, right? Like, there's no way that it's just by chance. I happen to be like an institutionally supporting social Democrat who believes in liberalism and free market capitalism and also a person that lives in the United States of America. So, I mean, we spent the last three months carefully crafting this. This right here is a tier list of political commentators and we want you to fill it out. Okay, tier list how? Like who gives the most insightful political commentary? Who's the funniest, who's the most recommender? Just overall your thoughts about this person. Okay. Yeah. So it could be

accuracy, comedy, everything. Good faith, bad faith, et cetera. Oh, yeah. Do you want to pull that closer? You could just pull the computer closer, yeah. That's fine. Alex Jones. We've got deplorably behavior for Sandy Hook, factually inaccurate, all over the place, you know, all around, horrible contributor to misinformation. Also pretty fucking funny, pretty Mimi. I would say he's like a A to S tier in terms of comedy. He gave us the Kanye West interviews with that black hood and the Netin Yahoo stupid thing. So all in all, I'll put him in a seat here. I'll balance him out there, Okay.

It was a big judgment against him for that Sandy Hook stuff. Is that Anna Kasparian? Yes. Fiery political personality. On the Young Turks, though. A little bit far left for me. Tries to do her best.

I give her props for that. I'll stick her up here on the B tier. Yeah. AOC, progressive. Way to the left of me. Don't appreciate that. But she's grown a lot as a lawmaker.

It's a congressperson. She's working better. office tries to reach out to young people. I can appreciate that. Except for the podcast, but well, you know, one day. AOC, please come on our show. We would love to have you on. How many subs did you have when you tried then? Many times. We're still trying. No, how many subscribers do you have when you tried last? Uh, 100,000? Yeah, something like that. What do you know? 950,000? Get to a million and then maybe she'll think about it. Okay. Yeah. I think everyone is a good. Please. Oh yeah. If you want AOC on the podcast, subscribe,

subscribe. Thank you for telling him to subscribe Destina. There you go. Andrew Yang too. Um, you should be able to get Yang on now. No, we tried. Damn. Ben Shapiro, you know, largest right-leaning, I think, probably one of the most popular right-leaning people in the United States right now, if not the most. Unless Tucker is still beating him with older people. You know, but again, massive political disagreements. He tries to be fact-based, but these are my political enemies. Can I really put a political enemy higher than a C-tier? I'm not sure. I think you could if you highly respect them. No, don't put that on me. Don't put that on the same tier. But you put him on the same tier. Is Alex Jones? Do you really feel that way? Well, think about it.

Okay. Ben Shapiro is more factual than Alex Jones, which he got downrated heavily for. But Alex Jones is a lot more entertaining than Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro doesn't really have like that hilarious entertainment factor, right? Like Alex Jones does. Number one chart rap song. Okay. Well, if it was Ben Shapiro and Tom McDonald's.

You know what? His review of the Barbie movie was fantastic. Was it? Yeah. I might have watched that. I don't remember. Okay. We don't need to influence him.

That's fair. Bernie Sanders, you know, progressive. He tried his best. He got young people energized a little bit, but his whole campaign fell apart. He didn't really do a good job at picking people that weren't extreme radicals. And he got crazies like Brianna, Joy Gray and everybody after it. I'm going to put him on the seat here. But he tried.

Is that the best president in my entire lifetime in the United States? My God, inflation reduction act, the Chips Act, the Heroes Act, bipartisan infrastructure legislation, pulled us out of Afghanistan. Thank God. Got us out of the Saudi-led anti-Yemman coal. abolition, managed to reduce our troop commitments in places like Syria and Iraq, is responsibly handling Ukraine. Oh, my God.

Just what's not to like about this guy? But he's getting a little senile. I'll put him on the S tier. Okay. Wow. Love this guy. Great president. You know what?

Jenk, similar to Alex Jones. I like him a lot because he, you know, I might put him down here because Alex is a bit funnier, but he's also, he's on my political side a little bit more. And he comes on my show. So he gets big points for that. So I'll put him right here for the seat here. Chris is a really good guy. I think he's pretty entertaining.

I think I agree with most of the stuff he says. I don't think I've ever heard him disagree. I don't think we've had disagreements before, but also I don't know where he stands politically. Oh, thank you. I'll put him here on the A tier. He seems like a... I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about him

or seen anything bad about him ever. No. Yeah. Not that I'm aware of it. Actually, he's kind of suspicious. What? Yeah, good. Yeah, is my hair blurry?

Stephen Crowder F tier constantly doesn't talk to me is mean to his wife on video camera tried to blow up the daily wire failed miserably on that stupid contract shit what?

I'm just doing this so we have a better face cam because we're superimposed the face camera okay fine whatever yeah fuck Stephen Crowder far right dumb everything he does who's this guy I can't see who's that John Lemon

Oh CNN I don't have strong feelings But is CNN I'll put him on the seat here Fuck it Elon Musk It's just all of his political takes are horrible He did get me unbanned

No not personally But I was unbanned from Twitter So he gets bumped up to the D tier for that Why are you banned on Twitter Oh it's And it depends on which account you're talking about Oh no Let's just

Let's just try to get this a little bit. Yes. Oh, okay, fine. Who is this guy? Gavin Newsom. Oh, Jesus. Why these pictures are small? We had to make it small to have it all fit.

I just watched Gavin do a couple debates of speeches. You know, we agree, I think, on some things. I don't know much about the substance of his beliefs. I do know that I lived in California, and there were a lot of homeless people and a lot of taxes. And I think those two things should never go together. So, but he was really good on campus. I'll stick him here on the B tier. Okay.

Who is that? Who is that? Oh, that's Hassan Piker. Oh, Hassan Piker. Supports terrorists, champagne socialist, just bad political takes on everything. Can't read more than a Twitter thread. I mean, what do I, what is to like?

If I could make a lower tier, I would. Jesse Lee Peterson, he's funny, but also perpetually sounds like a stroke victim, and has some crazy beliefs. I'll put him down here with Elon on the D tier. These guys would be good friends in real life, I'm sure.

Is that Joe Rogan? Yes. Big purveyor of misinformation, but at least he brings a lot of people together to talk. And he's reasonably entertaining. Oh, I'll stick him on the C tier, I guess. Does he really go on the same tier as Don Lemon?

We'll bump Don up. You know what? John Oliver, I think he's still the left of me, but I don't really hear him fuck up ever. I think last week, tonight is generally a pretty good show. I don't think I've ever heard them. Listen, I watched their Israel-Palest and stuff,

and I thought it was actually pretty good, which says a lot in this environment. So, you know, I'll put him on the A tier. I appreciate him. Jordan Peterson, you know, he talked to me, so he gets big points for that. But, man, I just feel like he's off at the deep end right now with all the crazy stuff he believes.

So I'm going to put him on the C-tier as well. Kamala Harris, I don't know what she does. She's the vice president. I feel like I've never heard anything remember ever. She's visited the, visited the border once. Cool. Isn't she,

that's her department. Of the vice president is to visit the border over and over again? I think it was some other titles she had. I don't know. I saw on some stupid Twitter thread.

Charlie Kirk is an idiot and a loser. And believes horrible things politically. So he can go down there. Who is that Lex? Lex. Lex.

Hello. Sets up amazing conversations. Has helped me talk to people that I'd never thought I'd be able to talk to you before like Ben Shapiro and then hopefully other people at the end of this month, you know, tries to bring people together. It's a little bit, you know, too nice to everybody sometimes.

But yeah, he's up here. He's my S-tier. He's fighting for a buddy of the year right now in my stream. Okay, so good job. Is that Vosch? Matt Walsh. Oh. Yeah, Jesus Christ.

Man, Daily Wired talent that is not Ben Shapiro is in a pretty rough state, I would say. And here's another one of them. Yep. yikes. Nulls, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just it's just like whatever you can say to like bash people on the left. That's like what these two do all the time. And I'm pretty sure these guys have both collectively spent like more of their career talking about how much they hate trans people than literally every other subject combined, which is just really wacky to me.

Is that Fuentes? Mm-hmm. Okay, well, I will. I'm going to bump Fuentes up to a D tier. I do like that, um, Fuentes followed the exact career destructive arc that I said he would go on where he thinks. threw away the entirety of what he was building so that he can go hang out with Kanye West for a little bit and then ruin the entire rest of his political future. And that was just very fucking funny to me and I like the fact that I got to sit back and laugh and enjoy all of that. And it makes me funny when I see him and his griper fans beg me to go on and talk to him over and over again

because they know the only shred of relevancy they will ever have for the remainder of their political existence as if I give them any. So I'll give him a d'eture for making me feel good about myself. David Packman. One of the few people on the left that I feel like isn't completely and totally partisan brain rot to one side. We disagree on some. We disagree on some things, but I think he tries pretty hard. And he puts out a lot of content. He does a good job. I'll put him up here, A tier.

Patrick, David. Well, I want to go on their show, so I'll put him up on the C tier for now. These guys have a lot of crazy people on. I feel like they are very brought into the anti-establishment conspiracy crazy stuff. And I feel like I hear that a lot. But we'll stick them there for now.

Who is this guy? RFK. Oh, God. Just crazy, wacky, conspiracy. seriously guy, almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And every time I listen to him talk, I want to clear my throat like 20 times. It's crazy. Oh, God.

Russell Brand. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. My God. Like, take like Joe Rogan and just make him worse in every single way. And that's Russell Bran, basically. Less funny.

Less, just everything. Less intelligent. And he has a British accent, too. Just like, Jesus. How many more ways can you go wrong? Is this Trudeau? Mm-hmm. man canadianes hate this guy and i don't like canadian so he gets a bump for that in my book um i'll

stick him on the c tier b tier he can't go next to pvd i'll put him up on the b tier because we're like you know we're both left leaning and you know he's a young guy uh he beat trump at the handshake game so he gets points for that um yeah he'll make b tier for me uh donald trump uh normally i'd give him normally I would give him an F tier because we disagree on almost every single thing that could possibly be disagreed upon but D tear because he helps my career a lot because it's fun talking about to make money off him

but F tier because he's a treasonous fucking piece of shit and I hope he wroughts forever in prison Tucker Carlson I hope he rots right alongside Trump treasonous people that betray this country and give aid and comfort to enemies of the United States like what Tucker is doing right now as he interviews Putin and goes on the biggest easiest softball

suckoff interview his entire fucking life I know that's coming out. Fuck this guy. And he lied to the American people knowingly. He said he was lying. He doesn't like Sidney Powell. He thought all of his theories were fucking insane. And he's literally texting talking about how he hates that she won't actually verify anything they're saying, but still support it all of it on Fox News.

Fuck him. Vosch here. Where's Hassan at? F-F. Okay. Well, Vosch gets one tier above Hassan because he's a little bit smarter than Hassan. But that actually, that means he should know better. and he shits on me and he says so many incorrect things.

Actually, you know what? He's an F tier. F tier for lazy. He doesn't hustle enough. His channel should be bigger, but it's not because he's lazy and he's complacent and he's making his million so he doesn't care. Fuck that guy. Vivek, I don't think he offered anything of value. He was just like a little, basically a darker version of Trump who was like less successful

and less in every single conceivable way. Fuck Vivek. And XQC, God tier political commentator. Obviously, a frequent call into the Destiny Stream, believes in all the best. us things antagonizes the fuck out of people that I don't like like Hassan so you know he makes the S tier as well you didn't put anyone in the amazing tier amazing no that guy's crazy he's actually crazy now looking at this yeah do you still agree that all of those like you can see you know Stephen Crowder's on the same level as Charlie Kirk as Matt Walsh as RFK as Russell brand as Trump is

Tucker Carlson is vouch vouch vouch vouch vouch that all seems accurate when you're now able to compare each person to the people there beside. Well, you're also half-meaming on some of this. But yeah, I mean, like a lot of these guys are purveyors of huge, like, swallows of misinformation. I really don't like that. It's one of the things addressing the craziest. And then the obsession over weird, like, culture wars issues. I also think it's like cringe. Bro, I was so bored of talking about trans shit for like all of 2023. It was so fucking boring. My God, kill me. And I feel like Noles and Walsh especially.

We're, like, obsessed with that for a long time. Yeah. All right. Cool. That was really fun to watch. Thank you. Thank you. Destiny for coming on the show.

I appreciate it. Is there anything else you want to mention? No, I don't think so. Thanks for having me. It's been fun of chat. Thank you. We're going to leave a link to this exact tier list down below in the description. If you guys want to fill it out, you'll be able to do so there.

Post it on Instagram, tag Destiny. Oh, thanks. So we can see what all of these viewers think. You could tag us, too. Okay. Thanks for coming on the show, Destiny. We really appreciate it. Thank you, man.

Until next time. See ya.