The Iced Coffee Hour - Everything You’ve Been Taught About Money Is WRONG! | Caleb Hammer

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

HERO: Right now, Hero Bread is offering our audience 10% off their first order! Just go to https://hero.co/ICED and use our code ICED NETSUITE: Take advantage of NetSuite’s FREE KPI checklist: https://www.netsuite.com/ICED ORACLE: Free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/iced Caleb's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@CalebHammer NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w 0:00 - Intro 3:33 - Caleb's Experience with Boogie2988 After Appearing on His Show 12:24 - Can ANYONE ‘Make It’ financially in America 13:27 - The Impact of Mental Health & Trauma on Personal Finances 22:42 - The Guest that STILL Struggles w/ Finances After 4 Appearances 26:08 - The Surprising Benefits of Being in Debt 32:30 - The #1 Thing That Keeps People Poor in 2024 36:27 - Caleb's Candid Discussion About His Current Debt & Credit Card Usage 41:20 - Caleb's Step-by-Step Guide to Financial Freedom 44:25 - Is College Worth It in 2024? 46:31 - Confronting Caleb About Being Too Hard on Guests 52:42 - How FAST YouTube Growth & Hate Has Affected Caleb 1:09:28 - Asking Caleb “Do You Think You Listen to Your Own Advice?” 1:12:18 - Diving into The Fear of LOSING EVERYTHING 1:24:57 - Caleb Opens Up About His Anxieties 1:32:13 - Caleb Hammer Has a GIRLFRIEND?! 1:41:22 - Should Couples Share Their Money? 1:43:06 - Is Universal Basic Income a Good Idea? 1:45:47 - Closing Comments For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I can declare bankruptcy if I need to. I'm $1,000 away. It doesn't even matter. We're already there. A lot of YouTubers, they get their $10 million house. They'll get their Ferraris and fancy clothes and all this stuff. And then at the end of the day, they end up with not that much. And that's happened to a lot of YouTubers.

They're so close to just falling off the deep end, they're just like, I don't even care anymore. But I try to let them know just how truly bad it is. What would you say is the number one thing that's keeping people poor? What the fuck is this? Why is this here? Caleb, thank you so much for having us in your new studio. This place is amazing. Thank you.

It's inspiring. First, we have to get to the drama. Okay, we're racing you to a million subscribers. And this has been the most tumultuous race of our entire lives. Caleb doesn't even know he's racing. No, we've been up by tens of thousands. You've been up by tens of thousands. And now we're behind by a thousand subscribers.

It's only a thousand. 1,200, to be precise. You are 1,200 subscribers ahead of us. I've been checking every single day. Your stats against ours. and I've calculated when our break-even is going to be at our current trajectory in a few days. Yeah.

But our algorithm is slowed down. So I think you might have a bit of a lead here. So if you guys watching, we're racing, we need to beat Caleb. So if you want to subscribe here, make sure to subscribe. But also, it's my birthday next month. My birthday next month.

My birthday was a couple months ago. Tell him to subscribe. My birthday's coming up soon too. Subscribe for my birthday. I'm a Valentine's baby. Oh, that's special. Now, after you guys subscribe, there's one other thing I have to.

to bring up, okay? Graham is unreal. Come on, Jack. It was unbelievable. Everyone's getting all hyped because I'm going to spill the tea, spill the drama. We get off this plane. We woke up at like 5 a.m. We're very tired.

I got a bum leg, okay? I had an incident on a basketball court. You guys can see the image right here. I'm hobbling. I'm barely walking. Graham calls an Uber. Sends us to a parking lot miles away. He missed the way.

I was so confused. I asked Jack to get the U.S. Uber. He always gets the Uber. And I was like, yeah, I just get the Uber. He's like, no, it's your turn to get the Uber. So I did. Yeah, we went to a parking lot miles away. And he was so weird. Yes. Yes. It was weird. I saw the address. Like, there's no way your office is here. Because it was like off of a freeway. It was like an overpass. He's like, all right, you're here. And we get there and I'm like, looking at out, there's no way this is it. So I check your text, and I see that we're five miles away. We're stranded in this parking lot in the middle of nowhere.

Graham calls this Uber. Okay. We finally. get into the next Uber, my leg is starting to really bother me, but that's okay. I soldier it through. We get into the car, drive to another parking lot miles away. He mixed up the numbers again. It's the right street thing. And he mixed up the numbers. The second time, I thought it was the Uber.

And he, you know, like made a mistake. I'm like, the dude must have gotten this wrong. But I looked at your address and then I typed it in, but I went back and forth between them. And somehow, in my mind, I read the address. dresses is the same even though they were not you know we could have been filming under a freeway though maybe i'm doing this on the cheap yeah saving the money i think it's honestly i was on like four hours of sleep last night and for whatever reason i kind of screwed it my mind so now i'm like double fisting

two coffees here this is the consequence of me no longer filming in my house it's having to find an office space but we've also had like six guests come here now and only one has never been able to find it it's you guys you guys professional travelers here we got dropped off on the wrong and we had to walk around to get here. It was very confusing. This guy. This guy. Anyways, Caleb, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

The first episode, everybody loved it, and they all wanted another one, and we have some tea and some drama that we got to bring up at some point during this episode. I don't even know what it is. The first big piece is you interviewed Boogie, and that was something completely unexpected. The interview came out, for those unaware,

Boogie is one of, like, the OG YouTubers. He's been doing this for, like, 15 years, his millions of subscribers, and he's broke. and so when this documentary came out on his lifestyle, people were very much criticizing his lifestyle and they said he had narcissism and personality disorders, but you went out from the perspective of his personal finances. What was it like meeting him?

He's interesting behind the scenes. Well, I wasn't even expected to talk about him. Like, do I want to just like out his entire existence? No, probably not. But I mean, okay, a little. I heard he was talking trash after the episode. He was talking trash after the episode, but the dude is just so nice and gentle in person,

and you can tell, unlike you guys, who you're the same as you are off camera, I think I'm the same off camera as I am on camera. He's not. He like, he kind of puts on a show, which I think is why a lot of people find him to be a little more fake, which isn't surprising why an audience would fall off like that. If the person you're not watching is genuine on YouTube,

YouTube is supposed to be the place where you're literally just seeing the person, you know? So he was very nice, very happy. But then, you know, after we recorded the episode and everything, he went and he trash talked on his own podcast. It's so funny because I did this Caleb Hammer episode. But number one, that guy was such a dumb. I thought that I actually bought a Tesla. Anybody with the brain knows that I'd buy a fucking Tesla.

He's like trying to find something to nail me on. He's like going through my bank account. And the only thing he can find a nail me on is like eating out. Bitch, look at me. Do I look like somebody who's saving money on food? He trashed on Twitter. And then a couple times on Twitter, he was like, oh, this is for the drama and this is for that. It was very confusing to follow.

And like me and my team, we were just like sitting back watching him just do his own thing and just confused as to why. So what did he say about you? I think he said I was a dick, which, fair enough. It's fair. That's a little bit of a dick. True. Yeah. It's fair.

Though I was actually pretty gentle to him because one thing he's really good at. Yeah. He's very good at the manipulation around therapy talk. What is therapy talk? Therapy talk in terms of just. just bouncing around subjects and making everyone feel very sympathetic for your situation and just making it seem like everything's excusable in a way. He was very good around just dancing around things.

And also, I mean, he lied a lot as well. Did he? I mean, so he-c-fil-A thing. I don't know if you guys watched the full episode, but he was talking about going chick-fil-A and he spent like $20. He was like, I got to feed two people. Or I got to feed four people. or whatever, and that's why I spent $20 there.

There's no shame, fat shaming, anything like that, but you do not stay at his weight if you're only consuming for a meal, one chick-flay sandwich, you know? If you're splitting that between four people, you don't. It's impossible. It's like calorically mathematical equation. So he was certainly lying a lot about his overall spending

and just making excuses for things. And it's hard because a lot of people that come on the show, we see their statements, they'll admit to things where he, we see the statements. We're like, why did you spend money on this? he's like, oh, I'm buying it for other people, not consuming it for myself. I'm like, okay. So what predictions do you have for Boogie?

He might be forced to sell his house, which really sucks, but forced to sell his house just to have enough money to survive. He talked about moving into like a rural environment after selling his house, but then his health care needs require being close to like good medical facilities and people, and he wouldn't have that in the place he talked about moving. So, I mean, the sad likelihood is, I mean, the dude's probably not going to be here in 10 years. And that's the hard part. Financially speaking,

I mean, he's not going to be able to make it much longer with the bills he's obligated to pay. Just his monthly health insurance costs, just his monthly health insurance costs. A lot of money. How much was it? It's ridiculous.

I don't remember exactly. I think it was like $1,500 a month? Yeah, it was something like... It was like... It was immediately like half or 60% of his revenue. $50 a day just in health insurance. And the dude runs on bumps, too. He runs on bumps in like his little YouTube algorithm.

So he goes out and chases something. And he probably used my show for that as well, just like the podcast. He chased that. He gets a little bump in his YouTube. Absolutely. Absolutely. But the revenue wasn't that much more impactful. He was celebrating bringing in like a few thousand dollars, which, I mean, that's exciting to bring in a few thousand dollars.

But from where he was and what he needs to survive, it wasn't that much. I feel bad because I'm not actually like, I don't like the trash talk people, but since we're here. But yeah, the dude is not going to make it. My takeaway from your episode when you really did the budget, and you broke it down how much he was spending, how much he needs to spend, he was really only $1,500 a month off at the end of it, assuming he's going to cut back where he needs to.

Everything. Yeah. Only $1,500. I mean, there's no reason why he couldn't find a way on YouTube, especially to make an extra $1,500 a month. And he has a low-cold podcast as well that I think is starting to do okay with Kempstar and some other person that's kind of falling off the YouTube world. So, I mean, there's definitely ways.

He puts low effort into things, like his Patreon and other things that he tries to sell his audience. He doesn't put any value into them, so he doesn't really receive any rewards from them. His Patreon that came in, what was it? It was like 40 bucks or something. His Twitch was like 150. He doesn't put effort into things and actually provide value that people want to consume as a viewer or pay for. Could be, though. He's not giving that value because he's not receiving anything first.

So it's hard to put value into something. It's like I'm making $40 a month. Why would I spend time on this? It's $40 a month versus I could make more YouTube videos. So I'll keep this going and I'll do this. Which is what I recommend it all in on YouTube. But I think you said in your reaction in the video. He's kind of stuck on YouTube 10 years ago.

Yeah. He hasn't really evolved with the platform. You've got to constantly evolve. But with all this being said, very pleasant person in person. It's interesting that this is a character on screen, off screen. Because I'm not used to that. Most people we've met, they're the same people. I'll throw out.

Most people I've met at least. So that was a little weird. And then the trash talking afterwards, that was very weird. Because, like, I don't think I'm that intimidating. I'm just over here. Just kind of, you know, chunky little boy. If you want to tell me to fuck off, tell me to fuck off. You know, I'm good with that.

Just tell me in person. Although, you know what? Before we go on to that, we're here in Austin, Texas. We've been traveling a lot lately for the podcast. We have some really cool guests lined up. And we're also doing our best in addition to that, eat a lot healthier for New Year's. I've been on a new diet lately, and I'm trying to build a little bit more muscle, lose a little bit more fat, and a staple of this new diet I'm on is our

sponsor hero. It's funny you mention that, but every single morning now, I have hero bread with peanut butter, and it tastes so unbelievably good. It's better than the bread that I would buy at the grocery store, and it's a lot healthier. Like, just take a look at the nutrition facts. So the hero sliced white bread has zero grams of net carb, zero grams of sugar, 45 calories, five grams of protein, and 11 grams of fiber. Not to mention my personal favorite, which is the hero tortilla that has zero grams of net carbs, zero grams of sugar, 80 calories, 7 grams of protein, and 15 grams of fiber. They also just came out with this brand new recipe using antioxidant-rich olive oil, which is shown to reduce cholesterol and reduce the risk of heart disease.

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Have you talked to him since then? Well, I mean, I don't respond to drama. I did one little fiery tweet, but I was like, this is too mean. This is too mean. Did you delete it? I deleted it because this is too mean. Like, why be meaning, you know, online? Like, I don't really get the point.

But, you know, I was just kind of playing into it, and I was having a little fun. But what I recommended to him was really doubling down on YouTube. and figuring out where to provide value there in terms of what his viewers want to do. He falls into a cycle, though, where he starts getting to something like begging for money or pulling for sympathy. And he's like, guys, I'm done.

I'm done playing a character. I'm going to be myself, very authentic. And then one month later, he falls into something. Like, he just kind of is on this endless cycle of just falling into his own traps for some reason. Have you talked to him at all since then or no? Yeah, we've texted a few times. Again, he's a very place.

person. Like, like, I would be happy to meet with him. I don't play Magic the Gathering, but if he wants to teach me, I'll learn. Like, he's a pleasant dude to be around. Yeah. So given everyone you've had in your channel, do you believe that anyone could make it in America? I think anyone definitely has a shot, but certainly some people are going to come from harder situations. I think a lot of that comes from family situations. If you're raised in a single family household and a place that there's, like, you know, are in a middle of a food desert or there's just lack of jobs, education. It's certainly going to be harder, but anyone can. Some people are just going to have to put in extra effort for, you know, where they're born, from where they come from, whatever their

situation. Anyone can, but it's going to be harder for some people. And it might take longer as well. Might take longer. You take every single person that's ever been on your show. There is still plenty of opportunity for them to be able to, quote unquote, make it. Every single person that's come on my show, I see a path for them to do it. Sometimes it requires, I mean, it always requires a slightly different sacrifice, whether it's cutting down or needing to go make more money, changing behavior, getting mental health help. You know, it's always something different, but anyone that's ever been on my show can certainly get out of it. We see a path. How often do you see a correlation between mental health and financial insecurity?

Oh, it's certainly a lot. It's interesting because some people have complained that it's become more of a mental health show. And of course, we allow the guests to bring up what they want to bring up. What I don't like are people using it as an excuse when it comes to finances, which I'm starting to see sympathy play in some of the guests trying to do that. So what I try to do is not a mental health expert. I'm not. I try to steer them towards, okay, this is a financial conversation. Sir, we can have sympathy and understand the basis of where things are coming from if there is trauma in the past. But you need to talk to a mental health expert who can actually help you on this. And let's talk about finances.

So I try to rope people back into the main line of the conversation that we're trying to be on. But certainly it's a big play. It would be fantastic if you could have a licensed therapist as well on the show. Yeah. Get Dr. K to call in. That would be amazing. Incredible. One thing we actually want to do, this is just more of a service behind the scenes because our show is nothing without our guests.

I would love to at some point, if we can afford it, have a therapist that I can have the guest. see if they want to see with no fee. And also a financial advisor that a guest could see with no fee for like, you know, a year or something like that. That would be, that's something I really want to do. I want to invest more in the guests post show. So, yes, I mean, there could be more content having someone on. Send them to the ranch.

Like the doctor bill. Yeah. But yeah, a lot of them do, a lot of them, things stem from trauma. I think you navigate that conversation very well, though. It's like, it's like your expertise is in finance. And also, we had Hormosey on the podcast, and he says a lot of people they come up with excuses for why they can't do a certain thing. But the only appropriate response to that is like, okay, and it's like, okay, you have this, you suffer from this. And maybe it does infect this.

But like, what are you going to do? Yeah, it becomes a really hard part of the conversation. It's an immediate barrier that some people have been thrown up more than normal. Like, I'll lay out what the issues are. I'll lay out what you can do. And they're like, yeah, but trauma. And I'm like, shit, what do I do about that? Hormozzi's response is always, all right, then you can't do it.

Silence. And they're like, well, but I could do that. And then they start to backpedal. When they're confronted and they say, I can't do this because, you know, when I was five, my dog died and that traumatized me and I can't do it. Okay. Fine. You can't do it. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Too bad. All right. See you. You're screwed. That would be an interesting. Maybe it's not appropriate, but it would be an interesting, you know, to see if it yielded in any.

good results. I'll test it on a couple of people. We'll see where it goes. I tend to agree with them because if they go in with the mindset, I can't do it. Dog died,

traumatized, fine. And that's going to be self-fulfilling. Well, that's where I already come on the show anyway. You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped in the first place.

Why I wonder why they're here. Like, you know, to be on the show. Yeah, we want people to come on the show who want help, right? So they'll, we have an extensive screen process. Half of our team are producers.

I can sure we get the right people on the show. But there's all always, you can never force everything out of people. They can fully frame themselves to something completely different through multiple video calls and then they can come sit here and they can trauma dump. And it's just like, dude, I never went to school for mental health. Why are we talking about this right now?

This is not me. What sort of traumas are you seeing? Is it, what trauma really impacts someone's like financial literacy? Is it divorced parents? It's less about financial literacy. It's less about that. It's, no, it's not even that, man. It's the cope.

The cope is spending more. The cope is they don't care about going into debt. The cope is the actions around it. And it can stem from any trauma that people do, whether it's something sexual in the past, whether it's, you know, a family situation in the past, a death, whatever it is. And then the cope around that is spending.

And the cope just feels better to them than actually disciplining and knowing they can't spend so they don't spend. You probably attract that type who cope with finances because they watch your channel. It makes sense, yeah. This might seem insensitive, but I feel like the question a lot of people are wondering, it's like, how many of them do you think are just using that as kind of an excuse and allowing that to like consume them rather than it genuinely being like a pushing hand on their back?

Like, no, you've got to go towards these coping mechanisms. Dude, it's so hard because I just don't want to assume. Right. I don't want to assume. I feel like it's just, it would be so. rude for someone in my position to just assume they're trying to make excuses. I don't want to invalidate them. Solutions. Yes. Right. It's like you've got to attack the problem head on. It is. That's why I try to fear them back on that conversation. I allowed people to go on trauma

dumps for a long time for a while and we're really trying to get them back on the conversations now, you know, pull them back in. But I don't want to invalidate their own life experience. Like they could be lying. But if I call one person out for being a liar and they're not, then it's just like, oh, Caleb Hammer is the biggest dick ever. Or do you think they're, maybe they're taking their experiences and maybe exaggerating? Maybe. But statistically, we've had so many people talk about it. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one person was lying, just using it as an excuse to not look bad on camera.

Like they thought they were going to come here and look good the whole way and then I'm calling out their bullshit. And it's worse than they thought it was. And they're like, oh, yeah, but something bad happened at the house. So how do you ensure that people don't lie on your show? Well, we have the hard numbers. Now, again, they can lie up front and say, this is every single doc. I sent you every single doc. I've sent you every single doc.

Then I get them to pull up credit camera. And then there's something else that's not there. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? Why is this here? You didn't send us that. I haven't in the episode that you guys walked in on. Really? Yeah.

Dude didn't send her one of the checking accounts. And it's this and one of the debts. There was $50,000 to student loans. She was seriously out there. No. I forgot about that one. What can I? Yeah.

So we bet, we vet, we vet. And those people are working their ass off back there. and it's impossible to know 100%. People can always lie. But before we go into that, as you're about to see, running a business could be pretty tough. And keeping everything organized

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or from your show. Like how, what percentage of people that come on can you see a measurable financial difference in? We haven't done like a study to gather a percentage,

but you should. That would be really interesting. What we mostly have focused on in terms of reaching out to best guests is their experience to make sure to improve overall experiences for people coming out on the show. We don't have statistics around this,

but we do have a private discord of all guests posting their wins and fails. We get a lot of wins, which is really good. Now, we've been doing this for a year and a half in a lot of the solutions to get out of it, even when restricting themselves down to zero is like three years.

So we're seeing a lot of progress, seeing a lot of completions, won't really take place until the channel is like twice as old as it is. So, but we are in the guest updates channel and in a newsletter, not to plug it, but in the newsletter, we send out like biweekly updates from guests

and those have been more successful updates. It's an investment to get people here. We give them money, but sometimes they spend money as well. You know, it's an investment. to get people here. People that are starting to get on the right train, it's oftentimes not worth a, all right, come down from Alaska or whatever.

Like, just give us a written update. Let's send it out. Let's keep people informed of what's going on from the situation. Usually, like, the sitting here is a, all right, time to get your shit together. You know, fire up the butt and just get shit going from there. And then when they come back is when they're, like, completed. Unless they need another slap in the face.

Do you notice any commonalities between the guys? that are very successful and the guests that just don't follow what you tell them? The guests that are very successful seem to be a bit more quiet after the show. They really kind of put their heads down and they really just start grinding things out. The guests that tend to be less successful, we hear from a little more. Like they want to be involved in the conversations a little more, which I'm down to definitely help them. I'll be a part of a, but Joseph, who's been on the show four times,

who I still absolutely love as a person, and no, I hear from him all the time, and I know he wants to continue to be on the show. We're probably not going to do that again for a while because he's been on more than anyone, and he hasn't made much progress, a ton of progress that he should have. But usually those people tend to make less progress.

Why is Joseph not making progress? Just behavior and excuses, man. He has not changed his overall behavior. He'll do behavioral change for two weeks, and he just falls back into old habits. And then excuses. We told him to pay off a credit card, and then we'd pay off some other debt, me and the money guy,

by a certain date, he started to pay off the credit card, and then he opened up another credit card and got these different insurances and maxed out the cards. What was his reasoning for that? I was a reason. I need insurance, so I put the annual, I paid for it annually and opened a new card to pay for it.

So sorry, guys, I kind of made it, but I didn't really. Did he need the insurance from your perspective? Yes, because I believe it was car insurance that he didn't have. I'm blinking on it right now a little bit. It was something necessary. Okay. And what do you think is holding most people back? It's kind of like me with the diet, which is totally fair.

Me with the gym. It's, I think, just jumping into the deep end, you know. It's intimidating at first, changing a lot of things, changing your entire lifestyle. If you're going out to you three times a day, which a lot of people on the show are, just completely changing that. So sometimes, you know, it takes slower steps to get there, which is fine, as long as they actually change in the end. But it's a big hurdle that I see a lot of people. They get fired up after leaving the show, but then actually changing things around their life.

That is their actions they actually have to take on their own without someone holding their hands. And it's very scary to make a big change when you've been doing something for half a decade or a decade. Do you think you overwhelm them when they come on the show and you're giving them this whole financial breakdown that says if you follow this for three years, so disciplined you'll be debt-free and you can start saving?

Like you said, it's a big lifestyle change. But for you, it might be with your diet, once a week I'm going to have a personal trainer, come here, once a week for one hour. That's it. And for maybe some of these people who need to improve their finances, it could be like Dave Ramsey would say, save $1,000. Yeah. And come back. Maybe you're giving them too much too soon. They're not ready to handle it.

Their mind can't comprehend all of these changes so they don't stick with it versus here's a little simple step. Just do this and then report back. I would say yes if it was just the conversation. Yeah. The conversation is a big picture item. But then from there, you know, we put them through our educational program. We put them through budgeting reviews. We put them through the Discord.

We connect them with resources and answer questions all along the way. So if it was the big picture conversation and then go off here on your own, I would be more inclined to say, yes, for some people it might be too much. But we do a lot of pre-show work and a ton of post-show work. So just helping them along the journey. I think helps combat that. Yeah. Now, Grant Cardone, we had him on the podcast a few weeks ago.

He said that for people who want to make a lot of money, they should not be liquid. They should have very little money in their bank account because that means they're all in, they're all invested. They have to make it work. Then everyone on my show's rich because they have $0 in their bank account. So you disagree with it. Well, I don't know. I don't know where you're going with that. I want to get your thought of that.

Because from Grant's perspective, there is an element of truth when, you have nothing left to fall back on. You have to make something work. You're all in. Oh, it's the Dave Ramsey $1,000. It's like burning, yeah, burning the ships. It's like, I got to make this thing work. And because of that, I'm going to be so much more driven

because I had no money in the account and I'm putting everything I have in what I'm doing. I'm done with that philosophy, but nothing ever in this entire world is one size fits all. Nothing ever, especially psychology. It's not going to be one size fits all. So for some people, yeah, that might work. for some people seeing that they're just so close to falling off,

we've had them on the show, they're so close to just falling off the deep end, they're just like, I don't even care anymore. I don't even care. It's just happening. I can declare bankruptcy if I need to. And I'm $1,000 away. It doesn't even matter.

We're already there. So for some people, it's going to be different for everyone. Jack, what did you say about that? Because we had a conversation on the walk from the airport about exactly that. Like, do people feel bad about their situation? Do they realize how severe? So what I noticed when I was watching a lot of your episodes is, like, people are in horrible financial situations. Like hundreds of thousands of dollars in high interest debt, just objectively not doing okay.

Yet it seems like they're just completely apathetic to it. It just doesn't matter to them. And I don't understand how, granted, I've never been in a situation like that. But, like, I still sweat when, you know, certain big expenses come up and stuff like that. But how do these people, they just seemingly don't care whatsoever? I was in that situation. I was in that situation, you know, a decade, 11 years ago. I didn't care because there was a lack of education.

There was needing to jump in the deep end. It would be such a change that I just wasn't willing to take. And I didn't see the benefits of it or the benefits are really going to outweigh it. I didn't really see it. And I didn't really realize just how dire it is. So that's where I really try to get across. And sometimes it comes across a little squeaky. but I try to let them know just how truly bad it is.

I kind of talk about it in a way where it's like, this is the part of kitchen nightmares where Gordon Ramsey's going through all the stinky food and he's vomiting. He's like showing you how fucked up this is and you probably didn't realize it until right now. And then we try to get down to the core issues and what it can take to change things. Like why do you think people are just so apathetic towards it?

Like you're literally telling them, oh, you have over $100,000 in high interest debt. And they're like, yeah. See, I said that people are just used to it at that point. Like $100,000 to them is normal. It doesn't seem unreasonable Because they've already experienced it So they're experiencing it

That's normal And then to them What's an extra $1,000 on top of that It's like 1% of what I owe It's not that big of a deal We have people in their mid-30s You know They've been in bad death since they're 18

It's just their life Yeah It's their day to day We had one dude And we filmed a couple days ago And He can't sleep at night Because of his that

Like he literally cannot sleep Like half the nights because he's just stressing about the debt. So he's finally starting to wake up to how bad it is. But until he was educated and realized how bad that debt was, it was just every day for him. Yeah. Just building up more debt.

It doesn't matter. That's what I did the day before. It's just normal. It's a part of American culture. So my parents told me I could do. What's crazy is that I read something about the hedonic treadmill that said you adjust whatever situation you're in within about six months. So lottery winners will feel about normal again six months from the time they win.

Same thing like people who, you know, are maybe in a car accident. They become disabled. Six months later, they feel about the same as they did before becoming disabled. So for people in a lot of debt, you know, maybe they sign that that paper. And for six months, they feel, oh, that's a lot of money. How am I going to dig myself out? But after six months, you're about normal.

And then all of a sudden, that to you is your baseline. It's interesting because last time we talked about, it wasn't a full six months ago. But we talked about me not liking, like, internet hate and stuff like that. No, I don't give a shit. I don't care. I don't care. I don't know. It's just every single day.

It's just every single day. You were so worried. I remember we were hanging out with you before and after the shoot and you were just refreshing your phone. Looking at comments, looking at comments, and videos and this and that. And we're like,

like, I remember I was feeling the same way and Graham probably used to feel the same as well. You just get used to it. You get used to it, yeah. And I just realized people don't just really know what's actually happening here, right here. Well, that's why it's so hard for people

to blow up online. Like, I would say for your channel, you went from, let's say, zero to 500,000 subscribers really quickly. most people would have to grind through that for years. And so they'll get some comments. It'll grow over time as they get used to it. So by the time they get all these hate comments,

it's like, I don't know, I've just been dealing with that the entire time. But for you, it's like going from everyone loves me to all of a sudden out of 500,000 people, you have 100 who hate you, who can't stand you,

and they want to make that very well known. Yeah. So it's a lot to adjust. Taylor Cameron's very evil. Yeah, no, I'm used to it now. That's true. So I get that. No, it makes sense.

Most people that are going through their debt situation. every single day. It just feels normal. Actually, you know what? I was kind of thinking about this. AI could quite possibly be the most important computer technology out there. It's storming through almost every industry and billions of dollars are being invested. So buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a bunch of speed in processing power.

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The link is down below in the description. Enjoy, and now let's get back to the episode. What would you say is the number one thing that's keeping people poor? Behavior. You'd say it's just behavior. Well, number one, man. I don't know. How much of that is student loans?

Car payments. People? Oh, look. Yeah. What's keeping people for? For people on our show, the guests would probably say my mental health. That's probably what they would say. The people that's on my show, from sitting across from behavior, the change actually jumping in and starting to take control and becoming a. a financial adult for the first time in their life.

You know, a lot of behavior-based things. In terms of the number one debt, man, we've had people, it's been a recent thing where people consolidate their debt. Then they just build up right back on credit cards. So just trying to finesse the system has been a big thing that has gotten a lot of people in trouble. You know what's crazy is I used to be, and still am, very pro-debt consolidation. I think the services from a mathematical standpoint make a lot of sense. If you have 30 grand a debt and you're paying 30% in interest, consolidate it,

you know, combine all those credit cards, get one company now that you're paying 15%. Still high, but now you're saving 15%. Dave Ramsey is very against that. And I've always looked at that advice and think that's stupid. Mathematically, you're saving 15%. Why wouldn't you do that? But he says for the exact reason that you said,

because people end up debt consolidating, feeling like I've accomplished something, I've already got it taken care of, but now I could open up another credit card since I'm technically saving money. It's free, so I'm going to get that credit card. But he's wrong, and you're wrong. It's not one-size-fits-all.

For the vast majority of people, mostly on the show, yeah, it's stupid. Don't do it. You're going to build it back up. But if you can do it, if you're disciplined, if you've proven to yourself that you will be able to manage it, absolutely save that money. I don't really get the being pro or anti,

like you need to be one or the other. Like, I don't really get why he's like that. But how do people know if they're disciplined enough to do that? A track record, proving it. If you're showing that on a credit card, you're only putting gas on it and you're paying it off every single month. If you're able to prove to yourself that you've become more financially disciplined, you're budgeting, you're sitting down once a month, seeing where things are going and actually assigning every single cent of your money to specific task and you're not spending money you don't know. You're proving to yourself with over a course of maybe a quarter, let's just say, then I think you're ready to take the next step into something. Do you think credit cards are a net positive or net negative? Probably, well, probably a net negative when it comes to society, but like, I don't know, we all finesse it. And I would love everyone to be able to finesse it. There's a lot of things that you can take advantage of that are great if you do it right, but can be shitty if you don't.

So for the vast majority of people, I mean, yeah, it's fuck them. So do you think I've been having this like internal debate because I know Graham and I, like, generally speaking, we advocate for people. to get credit cards if they're responsible about it. But do you think that it's an irresponsible thing if you're advocating for the usage of credit cards if overall you see it as a negative? No, because in the way that Graham was taught it on the main channel, you teach it

with all the extra steps of being responsible. You haven't gone on there and just said, go get a credit card. Said go get a credit card and here's how to be responsible with it. So it would be irresponsible if you're like just walking down the street and you're like, hey, you go get a credit card. Or just you're a booth at the college. You like sign up for your first.

credit card go spend all the money pimping out your dorm that's irresponsible but I don't think the way that like we've discussed it is responsible it's not quite like a casino where you go in and you're going to lose like that house is always going to win I think credit cards on average prey on people who are probably going to spend more money than they should but it's not like they're always going to win that's the way I see it pretty much with every type of leverage I mean people can get fucked by if they do it wrong and this is one of the worst ones you can get because the rates are just ridiculous and anyone can sign up for it.

Much harder to get than a mortgage, but you can do a mortgage wrong as well. No. Let's talk about leverage. What kind of debt do you have right now? Mortgage primary residence. Two of my rental properties have leverage. The rest of them do not.

They're in cash because that's how to get good deals now. Ashley is paid off by now. I talked about that last time. Did you pay it off? It ended at six months things. Okay, so you just got rid of it. You paid off furniture? Yeah.

I think I zero percent finance the NAS we're invested in here. I don't know if I'm saying that. What's a NAS? Is this a thing between my two editors so they can work off the same system without having a cloud transfer or wire things? So I'm zero percent in that, which is going to be chill, just like the Ashley. It'll be done in six months. How much is that? Five?

Six? Five, six thousand? Five, six thousand? Six thousand. Dude, I wouldn't finesse zero percent over five or six thousand. I was like, why not? Like, I mean, I have. I had it.

Is that even worth ten seconds of your time? It's just too long to explain to be worth it. I'm just, I'm silly about it. I'm silly about it. We're going to waste more time talking about this than you just paying this thing on. Well, we've already wasted more time talking about it than it took for me to do it. So it's already set up and ready to go. It was like a click.

Like, I already knew what I wanted. I just used my, like, it's already ready. So I have PayPal credit ready. You can zero percent finance something for success. once it's just ready to go. Paypal? Yeah, pretty much. That's really good.

Those who just accept it. I didn't even know that it was an option. Yeah, that's amazing, actually. We're not advocating for this. Neither would I. Well, see, now I'm running through my mind, like, what can I spend the money on? I don't need to. And then keep the money in the account and then get paid back.

Yeah. It could be worth it for, like, legitimate business. Well, if we were to buy a bunch of cameras and stuff like that. Yeah. Which is what I essentially did, business. So we should buy cameras we don't need just for the zero percent interest. George Campbell makes the argument. I think it's backed by data that people are more comfortable spending more money on credit cards than they are on debit cards.

That's another reason why he advocates for debit cards. Which is fine, but that's, again, another one-size fits all, which doesn't make sense. I love George. DM with George all the time. It's great. Love to hang out with you, George, someday. But one-size-fits-all. It just doesn't work, dude.

I don't spend more money because it's not a credit card. I spend the exact same. Probably same with you. But you're right. The vast majority, they would. We don't ban everything for everyone because of them. I like to think I'm spending the same amount on a credit card, but I don't know if I'm I would spend less on a debit card because I've not used a debit card for like 10 plus years.

Do an exercise. Budget yourself. But he's going to lose out on 2% for a month's spending. No, no, no. The issue with that is I would consciously know I'm paying with a debit card. And so for me to overcome like, I'm testing myself, I'm on the debit card, do I spend less because I know I'm spending on a debit card and I'm testing myself? Well, here, I'll talk about my psychology.

And I think this might be more applicable to Gen Z and young millennials as well. me swiping, me spending cash, it's like it's money that doesn't even exist. It's money that doesn't even exist. What exists is what's a number on a screen. That's what I think. Exactly. And if I see a dollar go up on a credit card balance,

that dramatically impacts me. Where if I go spend a dollar bill, it just flew into the ether. That's what I think. It's not accounted for. Yeah. Like any time that I find 20 bucks of cash sitting in like a pent pocket or a jacket pocket,

I'm thinking, oh, that's free 20 bucks. Yes, exactly. Spend that on something. It doesn't exist because I've never accounted for it. Yeah. So that's where, again, I think for the majority, yes, absolutely. They probably spend more money on a credit card. It prevents me from spending money because I see, I open the app and I see a $1.25 spent getting a tequito or something.

I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. Why did I just spend that? Do you pay off your credit cards throughout the month? Like, if you see a balance on there, you just automatically go and pay off. I do the same thing. I mean, I just find myself opening them like every other day or every three days. something like that.

I was going through, it's terrible for my taxes. So I'm going through my accounts to kind of line up where I'm drawing from which and some of these cards I'm paying off like seven times a month. And it makes it a nightmare

to go through and just say I took these expenses on the credit card for business, but I've pulled it from the account in multiple instances to make sure I'm not like double counting anything or missing something. It's pretty bad.

But I like seeing the number on mint show credit cards, zero. And anytime it ticks up. Not for much longer, but yeah. I just paid it immediately. Ripped mint. Yeah.

I know. They're moving to what credit karma, right? I haven't done that yet. Everyone online says to wait and there's a small chance everyone's revolting because they've kept pushing back the migration. And so everyone on the Reddit subred is like, I'm not doing it until the very last minute. Hopefully they're just going to keep it going. No.

I don't think so. But I'm going to hold out into the very last minute. Into it, right? Into it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. They're pretty smart. They've been successful.

I'm sure they'll just do whatever the fuck they want. Yeah. If you were to create your own 10-step program, let's say like... I don't like that stuff, dude. The Caleb Baby steps. I don't like it. I hate one-size-fits-all. Everything is a different person.

You think everything is super nuanced, but like... Not super nuanced, but everything's going to apply to someone a little bit. Why can't you just do something to the broad demographic out of 10 million people? This is going to work for more than a half. I just think for the viewers watching, like generally speaking, if they want some actionable structures that they can follow. All right, let's think. Okay, one month emergency fund. One month emergency fund.

Let's start there. Cover yourself for a month if anything goes wrong. For your needs, your needs plus wants. No, fuck wants. You're getting me? No, we're cutting all the way down. So this is one month emergency fund, absolute needs. Absolute needs.

Okay. No. Unless the only time I've ever given a little bit of wants is if they have a big gap between their minimum needs and their bringing income. But usually most people, it's just like that gap is not large enough to justify wants. Okay, start there. One month emergency fund. then this is where again it's not it's it's going to be based on discipline but either for either avalanche all your debts that are not in collections or owed to a person or debt snowball your debt so do small is the largest if you need to see the little successes along the way to keep you more motivated but if you can be motivated all throughout save the extra money in the end by doing the avalanche method then negotiate collections I'd negotiate collections from there which is going to be a relentless annoying disgusting process but the over the simple simple

to say you did that cool. And then if you had the conversation with the people appropriately at the time, then pay your personal debt spec, like if you owe your mom some money. Now, if in the debt process, your mom's like, no, I don't feel comfortable with waiting that long, then include them in the snowball or avalanche process. But I would hold that towards the end if it doesn't strain the relationship and if they give their consent on that. From there, I go six-month emergency fund or 12-month if you're your own business.

If you're your own business, you may as well. I think it's more comfortable due to do it 12-month emergency fund closer to what I have, where the average person, six months. I wouldn't do three months because now we live in a world where a pandemic can exist randomly. So, okay, six months. From there, I usually do the 50, 30, 30,000 on wants, 20% on savings. It's going to be different where you live. New York, California.

Your needs are going to be a little higher because your housing is going to be a little higher. But I would be trying to hit minimum 20% on a monthly basis towards investing goals or saving for a home, wherever that is. Obviously, this is where it becomes, again, applicable to a different person. If you're 55, you have no retirement. A larger chunk is going to have to go to starting to save a retirement versus if you're 25 and you just got out of debt, fully funded emergency fund, and you need to start investing. So from there, it's kind of just 50, 30, 20, until you're retired.

When you're just living in your dream. It's fantastic. I love that. Yeah, it's pretty concise. Yeah. It depends on your age. Depends on where you live. Depends on how discipline you are through your debt-paying journey. So there's nuances here in there.

So speaking of debt, when do you think college is worth it? And when do you think it's worth it to go into debt to go to college? What do they say? If you're starting salaries going to be double what you borrowed for school, I think that's a general rule that people have kind of agreed upon in the financial community that it's worth it. So if you know you're going to make $60,000 and you can borrow $30,000. hours ago to school. I think college is college debt or college? College debt. Okay. Yeah, I mean,

you definitely justify it with the degree. If we can mathematically say that you're going to have a good return on your investment. I'd say, I mean, let's just break it down simple, simple math. If it's going to, whatever amount that you're borrowing for college, if with that degree you're going to make at least twice the interest on the debt, then sure, you can probably justify it, right? I figure that's a relatively basic way to go about it. Yeah. What's crazy is that they did a study recently. ZipRecruiter. They found that only 14% of jobs posted on there actually required a degree.

That's it. And now, overall, not including just all jobs, only 45% require a degree. As you know, I've recently hired people. I never once asked for the degree or education or even previous work. I gave them exercises to complete. The best who complete... Push-ups or...

Video editing exercises. and graphic creation and, you know, conversational skills and then just overall interviews. Be funny if you do physical exercises. Yeah. I think we'd all lose. Oh, no,

one would do well. But, no, I just hired the best people for the job. I didn't give a single shit about where they come from. As long as they'd get along, they'd fit in the overall culture

that we're trying to build and they'd get their job done. I'm at the best of the best, now whoever has the best degree from the best school. I'd almost prefer someone without a degree. I mean, a degree wouldn't, like, turn me off entirely,

but someone without a degree, I feel like, might be a little better for the job because it shows that they've taken an alternative path that they're thinking outside the box. They're not just going with what everyone else is doing that they're pursuing something on their own. I think that's invaluable.

Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. Pretty cool. I would never like it. I'd probably prefer that, yeah. Well, that's fun. Yeah. What do you say to the critiques?

What do you say to the critiques that you are too harsh on guess? Did the camera see that you did a double take because you messed up the first time? I did a double take, yeah. You got to keep that at it. Jack. I grew up so often on the podcast

and you're like, keep that, keep that. I usually cut those out. Do you really? I don't think you can that time. All right. Say it again. That I'm too harsh on the guess. Yeah.

I don't know. I have the conversation in the way that I wish someone had with me a decade ago, like the exact same way. Everyone gets help in different ways. If you don't think you would get help from being on the show, if that's going to be something that's too much for you, congratulations. Don't come on the show.

We have a broad catalog for you to investigate before, and 99% of the people who are on the show are fans of the show. So they know exactly what they're getting into. They think it's a process that's going to help them, so they sign up for it. If some people feel insulted watching it, you're not the ones who signed up for the show. Have you ever had someone freak out on you

because you're being, quote unquote, harsh or mean to them? No, there was that one dude who stood up and started to walk out. He just is emotionally imbalanced in general, and we did not know that going into it. So when I was pushing him too hard, he started to emotionally not react well. And he started to walk away and I was able to loop him back in. I didn't know I was good at this,

but people have commented that I'm good at this. I know, apparently, I know when to let off. So as people are kind of pushed to that point where they're realizing how bad their situation actually is, good at looping them back in, turning it into a more hopeful message. So I didn't know I was good at that. People have told me I'm good at that,

so I guess I'll just trust them. I don't think I'm too harsh. I mean, people know what they're something. finding out for and they know what helps them. If it doesn't help you, don't come on the show, and they don't. Some of your titles, though, are a little, like this one, dumb blonde can't get her life together. Click on that video. Read the pin comment.

Into the mic, please. Before people get angry about the title, she walked in the room and told us she wanted dumb blonde can't get her life together to be the title. I love you. Yeah, we don't just do it on our own. We work with our guessing. It's kind of a meme at this point where we just, We try to have outrageous and funky, weird titles and thumbnails.

But what are the chances that she said, I want dumb blonde? And this one says, dumb stripper blows my mind. Did she walk in and say, I want you to say it? But we talked about thumbnail and title ideas afterwards with them. So we get everyone's permission. Not only do we have a conversation with them, they also read through paperwork and agree to it. There's a whole extensive process to make sure everyone feels comfortable and agrees. Now, when you record six episodes a week,

statistically there's going to be a couple of people that might end up being more upset than you would like them to be. I would wish everyone would have a great experience. But the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority have had a great experience. How do you ensure that they don't feel pressured to say yes to it because they feel like it's Caleb Hammer? He knows what's best. Because I don't have the conversation with them.

My producers do before they come on the show and my producers do before they come even to the set. And then all communication with them after the fact to the producers, because I know there's a power dynamic between me and other people now at this point. So I try to make it have with an unintiminating person, someone that they can just relate to that they've never heard of before, and someone who really has their comfort at heart. I'm not going to mention her by name because she does not like being like in the public eye, but my goodness, the amount just nagging I get in my ear from the desk behind me in our new office of ideas to just make,

It better for the guest every single second of every day. She's actively obsessed with it, which is what I need and what we all need. It's, we put so much attention in detail and making sure they have the best experience. Have you had any moments on the podcast that you thought were genuinely heartbreaking or like you felt a lot of internal sadness? Yes. I don't know anyone's name. I know their face because I'm just bad with names. Barely even know your guys' names.

Not true. But there was this girl who was taking care of her siblings like there are her own kids. and I remember that episode, right? Yeah. They grew up in a situation where they didn't get anything so she wanted to provide a lot, but she couldn't afford it in order to get out of her debt situation. So that absolutely destroyed me, and I paid for her Christmas so that they could have an actual Christmas. Something like that is brutal.

When it involves kids, even though they're stinky and sticky, I still feel sad when, you know, the relationship with their sister or parental figure is impacted by the overall situation. that breaks me every time. That kills me. How is she doing? Well, they had a good Christmas, and I'm being told that we're going to have a positive update with her within a couple months on the show.

I'm very excited about it. And what was the situation for those who haven't seen the episode? The overall situation in terms of her and her relationship with their family, just a really bad household from her parents, so she adopted, whether legally or just bringing them on, her brothers and treated them like her kids, but just like everyone else on the show, she was in debt.

She could barely afford to exist, but she wanted to give them the lives that they deserve. And I'm like, but we've got to cut back so that they can eventually have the lives that they need to have. In terms of not growing up with their parental figure, always being stressed about money,

not being able to pay bills, having to move a lot because you can't afford to stay in the place you're living in. We have to cut back and sacrifice now, which might mean they don't get the nicest clothes, means they might not get a trip to great with lodge was a big thing they like doing. They might not get to go out to eat all the time,

which was like their escape away, cutting back for the better future, that they'll remember more later in life because they're younger, they're forming less core memories. But that was really hard because they grew up in a really rough home and she wanted to give them amazing life.

And they deserve to have that amazing life. It's just they got to work for it. And so that's why I wanted to help her out for Christmas and I'm excited to see your positive update if it's positive like I've been informed. How would you say your mindset has changed from scarcity to abundance as you've acquired more well?

I've become more scared of retirement for some reason, more scared of being able to attain retirement. I don't know how. I've made more money than I've ever have in my life, but I feel like retirement is less likely somehow. For some reason, I don't know if because my retirement goals have gotten bigger,

which they have gotten a little bit bigger. But I always felt like working the 9 to 5, felt more secure and then I would eventually be able to retire, you know, 59 and a half, something like that. If I invest correctly, put enough aside on a monthly basis. And now that I'm like running their team, I have an office, all this stuff is just like, oh my gosh, everything could collapse at any moment. I got to make sure I'm prepared and I can take care of people. And so there's a lot more anxiety surrounding that. And how is your relationship with money in and of itself changed as you've like,

quote, quote, got rich? It hasn't really changed that much. I'm investing as much as I can, which is what I did before. My fun and crazy spending, you know, on bullshit hasn't really increased. I'll go to a nicer restaurant every once in a while and bring the friends along with me. If one of them can't afford to pay for it, I will cover it because I want to experience that as a friend group, you know. But I, in my money skills and my overall behavior has not changed. Random off-topic question, but we took you to sushi? Yeah.

Last time it was like your first time having sushi, right? Very scary. And you kind of enjoyed it? Love it. I've been back so many times. You've been back. You gone to another sushi restaurant? Yes.

And what's your overall... That makes me so happy to hear. Oh, it was so good. Love it. Overall experience in sushi, man. Dude, it's just so good. Yeah, you were nervous. I remember so...

As the background, we went to this place, and it was like the nicest sushi place. I believe in Austin. Uchi, yeah. Uchi. And I went there and just... Honestly, it was one of the best sushi places that I'd been to in terms of quality,

the type of fish that they had the menu. And you were there, and you're like, I don't eat sushi. Anything raw, nothing. I'm like, just try it. I don't want the booze. Just try it. And you know what, you did it.

You tried it. Yeah. You tried it. And what happened? I liked it. I was nervous all night when I was in bed. I was like, is this good? Something bad going to happen?

It's so happy. So I've been back there one more time and then I've been to a couple of other sushi restaurants as well. Took my team out after we finished the budgeting program that we worked so many hours on. We had a celebration dinner at their sister. restaurant. It was really good. It's just fun to explore the different tastes that are on the menu that day, you know, whatever fish they have, whatever the chef wants to prepare. So I wasn't a fancy restaurant person before that. So those have been my fancier restaurants where I've spent more money than I would like to spend has been sushi. Do you feel more financially secure

today or did you in the beginning? A little more in the beginning because I had a job. I don't know, man. Even though you make more money now. I make more money now. But every time I add an employee for a task, because we're trying to launch other channels, a new channel, maybe by the time this comes out,

we all have launched our new channel. Every time I add something like the lease for this office, buying the new cameras, dude, it's a gut in my stuff. I'm like, this is taken away from me retiring if for some reason... If the cameras are holding you back from retirement, man. I don't know, man. If for some reason just like people are like, oh, financial audit, I don't like that show anymore.

I'm not going to watch it. I'm like, oh, okay. What do I do now? I have employees. I probably pull for my own money to be able to make sure they exist first. Yeah, there's extra stress on top of it. But I love it. I absolutely love it.

So how much has it grown in the last five months since we had you on the podcast? Because you have a completely different operation than what I've seen five months ago. You've expanded from what I could see to be like 10 times. Yeah, I mean, this has become a well-oiled machine financial audit. You know, people are taking care of that and we're able to expand into more areas focusing on different passion products that I want to do. Our second channel is purely educational base. Then we're going to do a third channel on mini documentaries on things that I'm interested in. We're going to launch a second podcast in that corner with just us hanging out and talking, me and the team that we're going to upload on Saturday.

So I'm able to focus on more of the passion things. So that's really fun. Do you worry that's going to split attention, though, that maybe you're diverting your attention away from what? what's working. I refuse to start anything new until something is well-oiled and just being able to run. So Jack and I were talking about this earlier, and Jack was really trying to reel me in. I told Jack, hey, listen, sometimes we film these podcasts where we know it doesn't quite fit with the current style of our episodes, but they're really good episodes.

I'm like, what if we just posted them on Eclipse channel? Or we had another podcast channel where we have a, like, we have a backer. backlog, probably 10 episodes that are already filmed. Some of them we try to fit in, slot in, but they're really good episodes. It's just not my fit with the style. I'm like, let's post that on that channel. And then guess what we could do, Jack, is just have fun episodes. Just have people on where we know it's not going to fit with our main channel, but we just

throw them on. We just do a podcast. Jack said, nope, we've got to do one thing really, really, really well. And we want people to look forward to that one episode every single week and now we're going to knock it out of the park. And I'm like, but we could do both. And Jack is really me. And you know what?

I see Jack's point of view. you. And I would tend to agree with Jack slightly more than, I think, posting. I think that realistically, we will make more money if we do what Graham says. But I still think that it kind of dilutes the brand a little bit. And I think there's a component of over exposure. If people are seeing you like a few times a week rather than just like one time every single Sunday and counting on that. Yeah. I think that people can get sick and tired of you, to be honest. And also like, I think it's weird like posting certain ones on the clips channel. It's like everyone knows, okay, this isn't as good of an episode as something on the main channel.

And I just want people to know every single Sunday you can get a banger on the iced coffee hour. 9 a.m. Pacific time. Yeah, the big eye-opening thing for me is posting less on the main channel going from three a week to one a week. And that one a week gets more views than posting three weeks. Unless it's following someone around. We don't need to start that right now. Oh, gosh, man. Sorry, you took a wound.

Yeah, that was just poured so much of salt. is so bad is I've not looked at the analytics on the main channel in 24 hours purposely. That's good. Because it put me in such a mood every time I opened it, it ruined my night last. A Macy came in and she's like, what's wrong?

It's nothing. But deep down I knew it was nothing. It's nothing. Choking back tears. Literally it's nothing because no one's watched the damn thing. It's hard. That's why I like second channels, though. If that's a passion that you want to do that, it fits better on another channel where they don't have expectations.

and it's going to long down. It's so bad. It's so bad. For those who are not aware, I've been on this tear on the main channel. Every video has been like 3 to 600,000 views. And I had this one I had been sitting on since October. October three months,

I had been like casually working on this video. It's following around a solar salesperson who's making $1,000 a day. And I spent two full days with this guy going door to door, two full days, going door to door with this guy in Las Vegas. and I pieced together this video, and I was pretty happy with it overall.

I knew it was not going to be a hit, but my gosh, it bombed worse than I expected. Like my baseline, my baseline was bad. I set the expectation so low, and it underperformed that by like 50%. We didn't even talk about it before this, but... Yeah. Did you watch the video?

I didn't watch it. Why didn't you watch it? Be honest. Tell me why you didn't watch it. Because you're probably indicative of most of the audience. Okay, well, this is... Be honest. This isn't fair.

I don't watch a main channel. So. You made it worse. How'd you just said I wasn't interested in this? I watched the ice coffee hour. All right. I watched the ice coffee hour. There's very funny conversations.

I never watched the main channel. I watched the Graham Stephan show. You watched that? That's what I watched back in the day. That's what you watched. Yeah, that's what I watched that. All right.

Those videos. I never watched the main channel. That's the lowest effort content I put out there. I used the, the millennial monies, you know, back in the OG Millennium Money Days. That's what I watched, and then I transitioned to Ice Coffee Hour and never watched the main channel.

But I am subscribed to the main channel. And I opened up YouTube after a long day yesterday and I got in bed, opened up YouTube, and I saw it uploaded eight hours ago and it was at 20,000 views and I was like,

I know my boy's not happy over there in Vegas. Sorry, sorry, the change of topic. I'm sorry. I've not been looking at it. That's good. No, no, I think that's healthy that you're not looking at it.

I think it's more healthy I could look at it, accept it and move on. Yes. Of course, that's more healthy, but at the same point, it's like you're not feeling the negative emotions. That's a step in the right direction. The emotions are there.

I'm purposely just like... Suppressing them. Dude, you would not believe... This guy, we were on the plane coming over here, and I see Graham, he's like got his phone, like, right at his hip, and he's doing some calculations on his phone. And I'm like... I'm like...

I literally asked, I was like, so what money calculations are you doing right now? Because he knows it's so money. Every time I'm like calculates on my thing. He was just like random. I'm like dividing, multiplying, like, all these things doing percentages. And he's like, just like seeing how much money I would have made if I bought Bitcoin a while ago. I'm like, because you know what?

Bitcoin hit 49K. And I remember when it was at 20. I thought, I remembered it trading a 20. And I thought, hmm, 100 grand could buy five bitcoins even. Should I do that? Just buy five of them. And I was like, nah. And then I did the math, how much that would be worth today?

250 grand. Is it because of the UTF launch? Is that why it's spiking? It spiked up and then it's spiked up and then went back down. But it's been consistently 42 to 46, consistently lately. So, and then I'm thinking I missed out on 150,000 worth of profit. And then I was doing the after tax calculation. It'd be like 150,000 dollars a day.

Assuming I sold, what would that be after tax? And then Jack looked over me like, but it got me upset. Because it did this imaginary calculation on something that I didn't do. You need a therapist. There needs to be a therapist here because that's like so not right, I feel like, I feel like everyone does that. Do you not go back and like, okay, if I bought Bitcoin, I do that,

I did that when I bought my first rental property, I'm like, how did I just took the cash, bought Bitcoin instead? I'd be like, $2 million. And I'm like, all right, there we go. Yeah. There we go. My day is ruined. I think I asked Graham, like afterwards, I was like, I was like, how are you feeling now? And he joking

was said, like, my day's real. Like, but that's the thing. It's like, I can, you go and you set yourself up for these certain things that you know, you're just like, well, let's see how much money I actually didn't. Hypothetically lost. And then it's like, how are you? Well, I'm pretty upset.

I don't know, man. I feel like I did that a long time ago. Like, back when I, like, made my money a doge coin, I was thinking like, well, what if I sold off earlier? What if I sold off now? And buying a house. That was the last time I did it. And I'm like, well, this isn't really serving me.

I don't know. It's fun. It's fun. It's playing around. But you do that too. Absolutely. One thing that I do constantly is I'll, I'll pick like the

if a video absolutely bombs like bomb bomb bombs I like take that calculation as like that's going to be the peak I ever get like what does annual income look Yeah yeah I do the same thing Mostly because now I take care of people Like payroll

Yeah expensive so But you also said I think we had to talk about this October November where I was like Dude maybe you want to go down to like once or twice a week Yeah And you said well you know January Are you doing that Or do you think you're going to keep your three

a week. Man, it's hard. We have discussions about it in the team. We have so many people that want to come on that we can just indefinitely record forever.

It's interesting because I think we can put out different episodes. A lot of people, I got on Reddit today for the first time in like two months or something like,

I don't get on Reddit anymore. I look at your subreddit, believe it or not. I check it out. I followed the subreddit and I read. Overall positive, I would say

the biggest critique seemed to come from the guest choices or from the guests themselves. From the guests themselves. Yeah. They don't like the guess. Like certain guests, they'll say, oh, yes.

This person did this. This person did it. It's not like Caleb did this. Caleb, it's usually guest selection or the guest themselves. Yeah. This has been bad for my mental illness, so I just don't go on there anymore. But actually, before I go into the story,

I was going to say, on the Reddit, and it was when I started to check out of the subreddit. We had this dude that came on, and he had the weirdest voice I've ever heard in my life. It was like it sounded like he was using a voice changer. And that's what he sounded. Like in real life? It's a deep voice, huh? Yeah.

I texted you about this. You did. You thought it was fake, too. I thought it was fake. And everyone thought it was fake, and I was like, guys, this isn't fake. What episode is this? Yeah, I can show you. I can find a video.

Who's that one YouTube of a little deep voice? You played... Oh, or among us. Yeah, he has the same thing as that guy. Yes, he has the same thing as corpse husband. Apparently, I learned after the fact. See, I think it's such a unique voice. I think it's like, it sounds...

You pay a lot of money for a voice like that. I would like my voice to be a little deeper. A little deeper. A little deeper. You were living. You were living the dream. Every child wants to absolutely live. Absolutely.

I was living the dream and I really, really abused that fact. I was like, oh, I have extra money. I can spend it. I did not have extra money to spend it. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BedMGMGM casino and check out our newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. Don't miss out.

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He was responding to YouTube comments about his. disorder. It's very, you suffer a lot apparently with that disorder. It's like not a comfortable thing. You have damage in your vocal cords and your throat. But the weirdest thing was on that subreddit, people were not only just commenting, people were posting their own threads like

Caleb, you don't have to lie to us. We know what's going on. You use the voice changer. You don't have to lie to us, your audience. And I'm like, what is happening? Like, I don't know, everything will just turn into a conspiracy somehow. I don't know if it's a parosocial relationship.

in terms of just thinking they know what it's like behind the scenes. But it's so interesting. But your original question. There are a few things we threw out there, going down to fewer episodes. Yeah. So one reason why I like uploading three is because we can have a diversity, I guess. We had something posted on Reddit today, and it was like the first thing I responded to in a long time.

It was like, can we have more normal episodes, please? Can we have episodes of people that want to sit down and just get out of debt? And then I went through the last 11 episodes, and I posted. posted eight of them and I was like, oh, here's eight out of the last 11 episodes. They were just normal people who came on to get out of depth. Thumbails and titles were ridiculous. It's kind of a meme at this point, sure. But they sat down and we got a budget and they went on their way and there's a little bit of squeakiness.

But they ranged from like a Hammer Financial Score 1 to 4. But then I also told them, you probably didn't see this episode because it has a lower amount of views. Because less people clicked on it, less people watched for longer, and it got less views, which means it was not recommended to you. the videos that were more wild that you watched and thought the whole channel is, like the last three out of 11, you probably think that's the entire channel

because people watched it for longer, they voted with their eyeballs, they enjoyed the content, and it was recommended to you, and you probably clicked on it, and you thought that's what the channel was. But eight out of the last 11 were exactly what that person was asking for

on the subreddit posts. And I'm like, you just didn't see it. That's the thing. People don't know what they want. I've learned that so quickly on YouTube. People say, oh, make a video about this. It was like, yeah, it's a great idea. I do. No one watches it.

But you make the video you think people want to watch, more clickbait videos, or the more negative videos, or the more extreme videos, everyone watches them. That's why I like having three videos a week is because I can have someone on who is just chill. And we can have that video.

And if it doesn't perform as well, that's okay. People are still getting help from it who are watching it, and the person who came on is still getting help. And then I can have a wild episode that performs. The downside is that because your episodes are so long. People have to pick and choose what they want to watch. Yeah, that is true. is they're not going to watch every single episode.

They're probably going to watch one a week. And so now they have three episodes, and they're like, which one am I going to pick to watch? If it's just one a week, everyone is going to say, all right, I'm watching that episode. Sure. So you could, I'd notice my views double going from three to one. I just feel like we're going to have less diverse episodes

because I want to upload the episodes of the least crazy people. You do that for a week, and then it just sits there for a week. Twice a week. Okay. I think every Monday and Thursday. That's what we're thinking about was Monday and Thursday. We're considering it. We're considering it.

So we have a piece of criticism for you and we want to know what you think. Okay. Do you think that you listen to your own advice? You say you're not a car person, but you consistently want to like buy a Tesla. I mean, you've reached out to Graham and I several times about like, I think I want to buy a Tesla. But every single time we visit you, you're like, this car is perfectly fine. Was it a Jeep or something? Yeah, Jeep Cherokee.

Perfectly fine Jeep Cherokee. Love the car. Never want to upgrade. I'm not a car person. And then over and over and over, you're like, yeah, but. But that new Tesla is pretty awesome. You bought a house impulsively. Right?

Not impulsively. But it was an emotional spend. Kind of. I was looking for about three to four months. But once I found the place, I went and visited it about six times and I pulled the trigger. So I think we framed it a little rough last time. Sure, but at the time of purchase, did you really think that that was the smartest financial decision for yourself? Smartist?

Or a smart. I don't think it was bad. But it wasn't like the smartest thing. The smartest thing would always be throwing money in the market. It wasn't bad. only because of how well you do. It wasn't bad in proportion to that. I think you would have gotten a cheaper home had you waited,

and I think you would have been able to rent a better house for less. I don't think it was bad. I mean, it's like, you know, because you're doing so well in proportion, it absorbs a lot of the mistakes. Like you make a lot of fuck-ups, and it doesn't matter. Sure. So. Well, in terms of following my own advice, no, I don't because I advise 50, 30, 20.

but I invest instead of 50, about 80%. Dave Ramsey said something where those percentages become skewed after a certain amount. They do. And he no longer recommends that because someone making, let's say, a million dollars a year, and they're spending 30% on wants. I mean, $300,000 a year on wants, yeah. Which I would never. So it skews beyond like 400K a year.

Which I would never do. So technically, I don't follow my advice. I would invest 30%. I would go spend 30%, which I wouldn't even know what to do with. So technically no. I'm investing the vast vast majority. But if I went and bought a Tesla, it would be such a small fraction of my overall spending

because I don't go spend money on fun, really like ever. I'm working. We'll go out to eat or see a movie with the friends like once or twice a week. It wouldn't be the end of the world. How do you think you can improve your finances? Okay. So let me ask you, what does improve it look like? Because technically I could have half the employees just do this show

and invest more money. Sure. Let's just say your overall relationship with money. Probably the, oh, I'm going to sound like a guest on my show. Get ready. The mental health aspect of thinking that I'm just going to die in poverty

at all times. I think I'm just going to retire with nothing. You still feel that way? Yeah. Yeah. And every time I expand the business slightly, I'm like, oh, this is preventing me from retiring. I wonder if there's always going to be something

because I feel the same way. And there's always been something that has prevented me from feeling secure. It's because we know the statistics that YouTubers, on average, three years, like you said, five years you said is good. Not everyone gets to be like the YouTubers who have retired recently, 10 years. So good for them, by the way. Graham, do you think I'm going to die in poverty?

No. But you have a significant amount more money than I have. Right? And probably access, better access to higher paying jobs than I have. Yeah. And for some reason, you think I'm not going to. to die in poverty. No.

And you think you will. Yeah. Can you explain that? Not on camera, but you probably know. Oh, well, now I want to hear. Can you explain it killed? Do you think I'm going to die in poverty? Oh, I don't think you're going to die in poverty.

Right, but you have more money than I have. By significant. Do I? Yeah, probably. Yeah. And then also you have... No, you don't. You have more money than that's good.

Well, you've just been doing it for so long. You have access to hire-paying jobs, probably. Why do YouTube channel end, though? Do they end in, like, a stupid scam? scandal there's just nothing. With that, I wonder if it's easier for that person to then go make money. You, I don't think, I hate this, this is going to sound so fucking cunty, you

are not known enough where it would impact your job career outside. That's what I told Jack earlier today. We literally had this exact conversation. So that's what you didn't want to say? Because it sounds bad to say. I wanted to, no, no, no. I wanted to extrapolate on that even further. Yeah. But it sounds bad to say you sound like the most dick is let's cut to the chase right here I think that's a fair point but at the same time like I don't think that your level of like being famous is is working against you in that case no but when YouTube channels end like

let's just I make one stupid tweet let's say I get I don't drink but let's just say I get randomly drunk you guys cooks me into getting just wild tonight on 6th Street and I make the dumbest tweet that's ever existed in the world just for some reason. And it's just like, oh, scandal planet YouTube drama, woo, drama alert Philip DeFranco show, let's go. You know, YouTube career ends

and it's just like, they search for me and it's just like, oh, Caleb made this terrible tweet. We can't hire him. Rip me. But you still don't think that the skills that you've acquired along the way, you could still work behind the scenes. Well, probably could. Could do like an agency. Yeah, here's the thing, you could always work.

You could always work. but I think that future income is never guaranteed. But you always have what it takes to be able to work, as long as you're physically able to. Yeah. I suppose what gives me a lot of confidence is like, sure, I don't have anywhere near enough money right now to retire. But I do know if everything would have crash and burn right now

that I do have marketable skills that I'd be able to bring into any other position and be able to provide value and make money. Yeah, I just think you could get hired easier because I just think when YouTube channels end, either they're peter off for a decade or they just get YouTube drama canceled because everyone's looking for drama.

I don't think that all of your influence evaporates, though. I don't think that you get, like, you know, let's just say 85, 90% of your audience turns on you. You still have 10% of 90,000 people. But then you see people like Boogie. I hate to use him as an example, but like he's someone who had millions of subscribers. Now, he might be an extreme.

But you know he can turn it around. There are certain things that are in. He can't get back to where he was. I mean, that was no. But there are certain things that he is suffering from that are preventing him from getting where he needs to be. that you aren't necessarily. And those I feel like

are the really only things that you can bar from this. That's a good point. That's fair. Maybe it's kind of when you look in the mirror and you think you look ugular than you actually do. Like, I can see you being successful,

but I have a hard time seeing me be successful after you do. Like, I don't know. Maybe it's just some projection of some kind. What's been the thing for me that I've noticed? Like when I went from the duplex and I bought the first like real house in L.A., I remember thinking I'm locked into

working just as hard, if not harder on YouTube, for another year to be able to make enough to be able to sustain these payments if everything were to go to zero. And so my motivation for that year was, here's my payment, this is all new, earn enough, and then do backwards math

and be like, okay, now I'm financially secure with this. Then I ended up moving to Vegas. And then I thought, okay, now I need to work another, let's say, eight months to make sure that this is sustainable. And then after that, it could be another thing. And then, you know, usually there are, there are incremental life changes that happen. And then I'm thinking also like, okay, now if I'm okay here, I'm okay on the current

lifestyle, but what happens in the event of, you know, you need medical assistance. Yeah. Okay, let's put a padding on that. What if kids, let's put a padding on that? What if a kid, for whatever reason, God forbid, has a, you know, disability? And that's expensive and you need to plan for that. Okay, we'll pad that. It's always like a little more just to like, pass.

it for these things. So that's from my perspective, it's always like, okay, let's work a little more just to make sure that situation is taken care of. That's what this last year was for me before expanding the business into more ventures that I wanted to do is I have now built my rental portfolio to after property management fees, after property taxes, after insurance, after any mortgage on the couple that I have. And after 3% for future vacancies and 3% for future repairs generates $11,000 a month in cash flow. So that was my big goal for the end of the year and I ended up hitting that.

So, I mean, that more than covers my mortgage and, you know, I don't really have many expenses left on top of that, but obviously you wouldn't want your mortgage to be 50% or more of your income. But either way, that was my big goal because if, for some reason, things dry up, I could live a good upper middle class, middle class, upper middle class life for that indefinitely.

That's really fast. the way that you guys are explaining it, because it's like a completely different ballpark than the ballpark I'm in, obviously, if we're just considering finances involved. But like, I, oddly enough, I feel rich, even though I am still very far from it. Like, I feel very comfortable.

Growing up, I definitely, like, I would skimp out. I wouldn't get the avocado on Chipotle. In fact, I wouldn't even, like, go out to eat ever. I would be like, I play what we call the waiting game. You'd go, you'd show up. Everyone else would order food, and if they didn't finish it, you'd just eat their food. And we'd call it the waiting game.

what I did the other night. We were all out at tacos. I was telling you about this place that we went to. And I checked the table to see who's not finished with the food. And I'm never going to say, are you done with that? Because then people feel guilty. I was like, they look at the food and like, all right, I'll just give it to you. I like it when they're about to take it away. And it's, oh, do you wait. Can I have it? And then they give it to me. Because then I know a hundred percent they're going to be done. Is when they're taking it. Then I know they're going to be done with it. Because I don't want the guilt food. I don't want them to guilt give me. food. Maybe I have no shame, but I always ask if they're done about that. No, so I saw buddy Daniel. He's

Vegas low roller on YouTube and he had one lobster enchilada and some street corn that was just sitting there uneaten and he had, he was the only one of food on the entire table. I didn't want to ask if he's done with the food and wait 10 minutes. They took the food and then to the server, I'm like, wait a second, could you put that right here and I'll finish it? And I did. It was delicious. Absolutely delicious. Like, that makes sense, right? You're being financially somewhat responsible. But it's also, you don't want to be wasteful. Of course.

No, I think, and that's something I really respect about. You're very resourceful. I don't want to be wasteful. That's a smart thing to do, Jack. But the thing I don't understand, okay, is like, the only real thing that I need to survive is my mortgage payment, which is like $2, $2,2, $2,300. And I have all of my rooms rented out. And I'm basically cash flow flat, like not positive, not negative on my living expenses.

And I know for a fact, I can just get a job if I really needed to as a budget. buser at a Starbucks, something like that. And I could still work 20, 30 hours a week and pay for health insurance, my car's paid off, et cetera, et cetera. And that right there is like, I'm comfortable, right? It would be hard to raise a family for sure, but I still think that like that's like worst case scenario. And like that in and of itself, like knowing that that is the baseline gives me so much confidence. And like, I feel like I feel very secure. And also just like the small little practices of getting avocado, which sounds so simple, like getting avocado on like a sandwich or whatever, or not caring when you're going out to like eat, even if it's like a $10

burrito, whatever, and just happily paying for it. Like that, like those little practices make me feel like I'm totally fine and well off. I still can't quite understand the difference, but I know it's a very common thing. Well, I mean, I can't fully answer the why. That's why I said at the beginning. It's probably a mental health thing. Like there's probably some underlying anxiety surrounding it, but I can't pinpoint a why. Why do I think it's going to crash and burn?

Why do I think I'm going to die on the Walmart floor? I don't know. I don't have an answer. Do you have an answer? Why you think you're going to? No, not necessarily. My biggest fear is doing something that I never want to do. Like I had that one experience doing data entry for like six weeks.

I don't know that's so stupid. But I was so depressed. It was the only time in my life where I actually would go home and just feel just miserable. I didn't want to wake up. I didn't want to do anything. It was terrible. And I never want to return to that. Fair enough.

But it was waking up every day knowing I got to put in this nine to five. I was like, is this life? And I just saw that for like 60 years doing that. I hated it so badly that. I never want to be forced to do something like that. So the idea of going into a job that I hate doing to me is like I'll do anything to avoid that, even if that means thinking, I'm constantly broke and I just got to like do enough to be, you know, to be a bit scarcity. That's what buggy is right now.

Like refuses. Even if YouTube doesn't make money, I think we all think you can make a little more money on But he refuses to get any job, any job, if it fully stops. He's a YouTuber. He has 3 million subscribers or whatever. So he thinks, I don't know. Yeah, I think it's a humility thing. The embarrassment as well of being boogie.

And you go into Tripoli, for instance, and be like, hey, are you boogie? And serving Chipotle is like, oh, can I get a selfie with you? It might be just a, but seriously, imagine that. Any front-facing jump like that, anyone is going to, they're going to recognize them. Let's take selfies. I remember we had Devin Workheiser on the podcast from Ned's Declassified. And they're like, for any kid would instantly recognize, you know, that's Ned. And he was working at Equinox.

And didn't care because he, like, that was what it took to support his acting career at the time. It made good money. But, like, he was this really famous child actor working at Equinox. That's what you have to do. And he didn't have an ego. It was just like, yeah, I'm doing this. It pays really well, and I'm doing my acting on the side, and this is just what it is.

So I think that's a big hurdle for a lot of people to overcome. I bet a lot of people wouldn't be able to do that. They would have a pride thing. Like, no, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, I'd probably work at the fish shop. The fish shop I like to go to. I would love that. Everyone there seems to be having a good time.

Decent manual labor. They're always lifting heavy buckets of water. But that might be good. And, well, it looks fun. They're all happy. You know what I thought? like if everything were to go to zero. Let's just say I started with zero today,

like, and I had to go and get a job. It would probably be like a marine aquarium wholesale. I'd just go back to, I'd probably just go back to doing that. Top shelf aquatics would probably be, or worldwide corals, one of those two places. You'd help me build my first reef tank. Yeah, I would. Or I just do, I set up reef tanks for people.

I think that would be fun. Yeah. I'd do that. So I thought of all of those things. I thought of every scenario. If I were just like, all right, starting over from scratch, what would I do if it's not YouTube? Yeah.

That's why I'm investing everything. A lot of people that get into the YouTube, I think we're fortunate enough to be in the finance space where we at least are educated on personal finances enough to know, okay, at some point, this income might not exist. I should invest. A lot of YouTubers, they get their YouTuber, they get their, like a house for $900,000,

but a lot of people, they'll get their $10 million house. They'll get their Ferrari. They'll get their, you know, lavish parties and fancy clothes and all this stuff. and then at the end of the day it's you know this is kind of they end up with not that much

and that's happened to a lot of YouTubers what is it Sunny V2 703 yeah yeah he follows a lot of those stories great channel loves it sunny V3 that's the next stage sunny V1

it just gets worse it's like Sunny V5 at that point yeah so do you feel like you're conquering your anxieties or do you feel like they're still somewhat controlling which direction you're taking in life

I'm sure it's controlling the financial aspect that we talk about I haven't been. I haven't visited. You guys have been here three times. I haven't you to come to Vegas. I want you to go to Vegas and I want you see Dave Ramsey.

I want to meet the dog. I want to meet Bailey. Valian. Ramsey would, I feel like Ramsey would like you. Oh, I'll meet Ramsey too, but I really...

And you see the aquarium. Yes, yes. No, I would love to go. I think in terms of anxieties holding me back, that's my big one. For some reason I'm just not getting on a... Oh, my panic disorder or whatever. I think that's the one thing I'm not doing.

Yes. What if it's on a plane with us? Listen, I'm open to it. Are you really? I'm open to it. Hypothetically, if we flew from New York here back to Vegas, would you do that in the next few days? Well, no, we got a schedule. Excuse me.

That's a limiting belief. No, we have a schedule to meet. If we plan it, if we plan it within like a month that we can schedule our schedule. No, no, no. Like within a specific month that we can take like a schedule. week off. You don't need a week. It's two and a half hours.

It's a two and a half hour flight. We were talking, Jack and I, saying how easy the flight was, and we could go here and back in this same day. I did a full video edit on the plane, so I wasted no time. The only time I wasted is just the time it takes to get to the airport and wait to board the plane.

Yeah, the day of Ramsey show, or sorry, the Ramsey show, come on. They've stopped inviting me. I'm serious. Well, I mean, you just invite somebody so many times, right? It's not like they're saying, I can't come on,

but they're just like, there was like a different producer every other week that was like, hey, we really want you on. Hey, we really want you on. Please come. And I'm like, all right.

So I think they're... But that's huge. I mean, just, I think that connection you'd build what you would learn from him and his team and just walking in

and seeing his operation. I'll challenge his 8% would draw on the air. Yeah, good. Call him out on it. Dave, sequence of return. Risk. but you got to go there.

You got to get on the airplane. Or a road trip. Zoom, Zoom. I think this is less about you physically being there and more about conquering there. It is. It is. That's my one thing. The only probable benefit is I like me in new places.

I just don't like getting there. So because I don't fly, I'm not spending money on going on vacations. No, you're not going to go to vacations. But I'm going to tell you, I think it's going to be like the sushi thing. I think you're going to go in very skeptical. That was so much easier. And just you say that, but you're sitting. You don't have to consume anything.

It's like a roller coaster. I like being on a roller coaster but standing the line for two hours. I just feel like I'm like dying. Like my body feels like it's dying. Going through all the checks, driving to the airport, getting the parking,

going through the lines, getting the check, all that lead up, there was no lead up to sushi. All you need to do is a first class ticket. You buy a first class... Is it that much better domestically? Okay.

Oh yeah. And you're going to spend under a thousand dollars on a first class ticket almost anywhere in the United States. And then to and from the airport, you're going to hunt hire the best driver you can.

Get a nice SUV, an escalade that's going to pick you up, take you right there. You could even pay someone to go with you. Buy an extra $1,000 ticket, and what they're going to do is just you follow one person. You're also going to get TSA pre-check ahead of time. So that way, you skip the line and you go right in.

You could make this so seamless that you have someone with you at all times sitting right next to you who leads the way. maybe they could even drive you there you got to do nothing you could zone out the entire time and they will be the one to coordinate everything for two grand total and it's a tax ride off

because you're going to see Ramsey there was an awkward game of telephone the last time you guys came down we didn't film anything but you guys came down to film with Mr. Fallen and I was filmed with the money guy like right before that and they were like

oh you know hey George we're friends with George just DM George see if they will fly down a plane and pick you up just kind of as a joke. So I jokingly text George, I was like, oh, it would be funny, we'd get this. And then you guys hung out with George the next day,

and George must have told you like, Caleb wants a private jet to get here. And then Graham came down and he's like, I can't believe you told Dave, you need a private jet to get here. That's like just not even how it happened. I mean, this is, yeah. Private jet, though.

That would be nice. Does meet Kevin still have a private jet? Yeah. Yeah, hey, meet Kevin. Come meet me. Fly me somewhere. I guess, I don't know. Local news is in decline across Canada.

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Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IDPrivatewealth.com. Well, you could ask them. You never know. But I think the big thing is getting over your fear. Yeah. Two grand. Get over your fear.

It's hot of money, though, ground. I'm afraid of flying, too, which was never been the case. I think I mentioned that it's the last time. But I started getting these TikToks of planes crashing. And I watched one of them. And I started getting all the other ones recommended because I watched one. And it scared me. I'd never been afraid of flying, ever.

But now I, because I've seen that, it's burned into my mind. Plan's crashing. I've had to explain it before and it's hard for other people to understand I'm not afraid of flying it's the panic disorder of being stuck in a situation that I can't control and then all of a sudden I'm far away

from my place, my place of comfort and that's what's kind of hard that's an episode we probably won't release because it was really short and it just wasn't the it was okay but we had a dude that was literally afraid to leave his house

like a much more extreme version of what I had and I felt so bad for him and the dude took all his effort to come down from Dallas and I was so proud of him for doing that and filming the episode. But it's kind of like that. If you've ever heard of those people's experiences,

it's like that, but at a much looser, gentle level. So, you know, I know it's something that just needs to be done. This is that overwhelming fear of just actually going and taking the steps to do it. Yeah. If we could help in any way.

Let us know. You'll do it eventually. Yeah, because I would even go on a plane with you. If we, like, open up, like, buying a ticket for me on the phone, you know, Google tickets right now, I'll get an anxiety poop in five minutes. Like, it'll happen.

Like, I just get so nervous about it. I'd go with you. If you want to go to Ramsey Solutions, I would 100% go with you. I would fly here just to be able to go with you to Nashville. I love it there. It's interesting. Being live.

Being live. That's nervous. Easy. Dave gives you a little script beforehand, kind of going over, like, here's the bullet points of what we're going to be talking about. It's so easy.

is 10 minutes. It flies by. It felt like three. And they're not out there like grilling you. They're not going to ask you hard-hitting questions. No, I know.

Very, like, novice-level beginner questions that are going to appeal to a mass audience. I'm an aggressive word fumbleer, though. That's fine. That's fine. They also have a,

I believe it's like a 30-second delay. So just in case, like, a naughty word comes out, they have a 30-second delay or they can. I can't say it on national radio. We're going to keep that in. I say it on the show all the time.

It's bleeped. I mean, I think all swear words are fun. Yeah, I know. I do want to get there. I do want to get there. You'll get there eventually. But before we go on to anything else, we have to talk about the favorite conversational topic

that we had last episode. He's getting back on script. Which was dating. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we hear. I didn't tell Jack anything. No, we hear that you have a special someone now.

Yeah. I think she's going to stop by at some point working right now. How did you mean the special someone? Fish shop? Fish shop? Yeah, she was shopping for some shrimp. I was there looking for some puffer fish. She was there with her sister.

She was in her scrubs. She just got off of work. Thought she was very attractive because she is very attractive. And I went up to her. I was like, I like your glasses can have your number. Did you act? What do you say? It was something along that line.

No. You went straight for the number? I was like, hey, you're really attractive. I was wondering if I could get your number. I like your glasses. Something like that. something involving glasses. It was weird.

It was weird. Because I just, I shut down. I was just so nervous. Like I was confident. I was going up there and then the closer I got was, oh no.

Then the word started coming out of my mouth. And I was like, what am I doing? And it worked. And we went on a few dates and it's just been good. It's actually been really nice because some of the hinge dates

I've been on, like we would have just normal conversations. Then we'd meet up in person. Then they'd tell me they were like a fan of the show and I'm like, all right. So you know like 10 times more about me

than I know about you. Why didn't you tell me this before? That sucks. This person had no idea that I was a YouTuber and stuff. Still didn't within like a couple dates, I think. So what would you say you did when she would ask? Media. That's usually what I tell people, work in video or media.

Yeah. What was it? And what was her response when you asked for her number? She was like, oh, yeah, sure. She did. It was a little awkward. She gave me her number. And then I think I typed it down wrong and then confirmed it back to her and had to change her number.

Had to change one of the numbers. That was fun. Like I went back to her. Like I started going away and I went back. Wait, was with this? And it was really awkward. And then, yeah, just texted later that night. What was your first text?

Can I have my phone? Wait, is she like your girlfriend, girlfriend? Or is she just like, you know, date? Girlfriend in non-name. Like, we're definitely girlfriend. Girlfriend boyfriend. But she wants like a special date for it to be official girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend type thing.

I don't know. I thought a cute date would be, 2-4-24, which is going to be gone so we can't become official on that day. So, I don't know. But, yes, we are. Let's find the first step. How long ago is this that you hit on her?

For lack of it. For lack of it. A week before Thanksgiving? Really? Yeah. Good for you, dude. Yeah. And I really respect the confidence of that.

She's also made me want to get a Tesla more because she has a Tesla Model 3. Then I experienced it self-driving, which is much better than you said it was. Last time we talked, it's very. All right. Listen, they've upgraded the firmware, a little nicer, the little less jerky,

and trust it a little bit more. Yeah. Have you talked much about her? No, she doesn't want to be like name and face and stuff. She doesn't really want that. I think you should do a financial audit. Imagine. We've made jokes about it.

My girlfriend. Hey, I am from the fish shop. My name is Caleb. Thank you for giving me your number. I just thought you were incredibly beautiful. So I had to ask, Smyrubb.

My face. What's your name? Hi. I'm blank. Sorry, I was a bit awkward. I was focused on the shrimp. emoji. Emoggy.

Exhibition point emoji. 100 emoji. Wait, she sent how many emojis? She's obsessed with me. No, she was very flirty. I don't get, I don't get emojis anymore. You know what?

I think I told Jack a while ago. I'm like, the more emojis that are sent, the more into you they are, if it's a lot of emojis. Yeah. And that's why Jack was sending so many emojis. Dude. And I was like, dude,

tone back. No emoji. One every now. I also got a note that one of her coworkers and friends disapproves. Disapproved when going on a few dates. She, like, showed her a picture of me. She was like, what are you doing? You can do so much better.

But I think it's gone okay since then. But now she found out you have a YouTube channel. She's like, oh, my gosh. She scored. So why was she immediately interested in you? I don't know if she was. I don't know if she was. She gave you a number.

I mean, you don't do that unless some interest. Well, like, I've never had my number asked. But what would I do in that situation? When I panic and just give the number because, like, oh, fuck, what do I do? But even the responding number. But even the responding number. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, sorry, a few days later, maybe just, I don't know. A physical attraction? I don't know. Maybe you're just interested in learning about someone who asked your number. It's hard to say. I haven't asked that question. Maybe I should ask that question. I'm going to ask that question.

But then we just got along, just really. similar interests. We like a lot of the same things. We have great conversations. Nothing's ever dollar dry, which is really nice. And yeah, no, it's a great time.

Anytime it's here. It's a great time. That's incredible. So do you still have Hinge or you're off of everything? I got in trouble for that one. What do you mean you got in trouble? Not in trouble. We were in a movie once and

like we weren't official. We weren't exclusive. We didn't have the conversation of exclusivity or anything yet. And a hinge notification popped up on my watch in the movie saying, your most something is updated or something like that. Like, your most likely attraction is updated. And went from immediate handholding to,

and went the other way in the middle of the movie. I'm like, I'm in trouble. But we didn't have the conversation. Did she tell you anything afterwards or did you just delete it? I learned like the next day or something that just didn't feel good. So then we started having the conversation with experts. exclusivity. It's just like, you know, haven't talked about it.

Didn't really know. Have you guys had any serious arguments? No. You know, drama bait. No? No. Wow. No.

A couple discussions, but never an argument. Discussion of just like, you know, I haven't been in like a long-term relationship and I am a very long while. So it was just me readjusting to it, making sure prioritizing some things, just things that she likes in terms of just like door openings and stuff like that and just, just feeling appreciated and just some of those more sit down like hey you know i would really appreciate this and stuff like that she wants no arguments this is one thing that she enjoys it's just one of the love languages where she feels really appreciated access service access service exactly that's a big one

so just you know making it known that and that i was less in the giving access of service because that's not one of the ways i naturally show i'm more of a words of information person in terms of what i give and probably quality time no gift giving i like that as well you like to receive gifts or You like to give the gifts. Yeah. But in terms of acts of service, this has been less to something just naturally that I've provided. So it was like, hey, I really appreciate this and this kind of stuff and makes me feel better and more appreciated.

Got it. And your favorite things about her? Her butt. We just get along so freaking well. I feel like that's kind of hard. I've been on so many dates and things click or they don't click. But man, getting along with someone just so just like that fit, it just feels so. nice and it's just so cool and it just makes every

timer together every time you're not like oh i got to think of something to say when we go to dinner that's not something i have to think about it's just we just flow so well and that has to easily she watch your videos now no she refuses to why she says she prefers the graham step and main channel instead yeah she prefers the iced coffee hour no she does know who you are okay uh graham stay fan I believe. Great. It's a tough one.

Yeah, it's very difficult. All right. I'm. Yeah, she watched a couple of your videos when she was back in college. But no, she refuses to. She's like, she doesn't want to. It's still weird for her when I get recognized. She's like, oh, I kind of forget you're like this.

There's like this other part of just your life because it's just, you know, me and her and like me and her, my friends and stuff like that. It's like, that's our life. And there's like this whole other part that she's just. she doesn't want to be out there. She's not, she doesn't watch YouTube. She doesn't watch YouTube. That's not her entertainment.

So I guess that's one of our differences. She's movies, shows, that kind of stuff. She did not open up YouTube. You said she was a nurse? Not nurse. She wants, she's going back to school to be a physical assistant. Not a physical assistant. Physicians assistant.

Physicians assistant. So she's doing that. She's applying programs now. And she's some medical assistant right now. She check out my foot? Yeah. That's a weird thing to have. I don't know.

I feel like, she's probably extremely unqualified to look at your foot. It's very bruised. It's, you know, it's just, I'll be honest, we're not trying to turn this into

like a three-person situation, but she can look at your foot. One-off, one-off. I just don't know if I need physical therapy or not. That's the main thing. Caleb, would you want to watch

if she looks at... Okay, okay, all right. We're getting off topic. I'm curious. For you, in relationships, Do you think that couples should share finances or do you think it's better to have separate bank accounts?

Marriage-wise, I think when we're our... As someone who's never been married, I'm very qualified to talk about this. Now, what does you... Because it's just opinion at this point in here. No, just statistically, we know that finances are the leading cause of divorce. So if we can figure out what our goals are,

whatever best works for that relationship, whether it's where we're combined, we know where all money is going, we're sitting down, we're talking about it. we see every transaction. If that's what works best for that couple, then that's what works best. As long as it doesn't provide that money issue that is the leading cause of divorce in the country. If what's best for them is being separate, but coming back at the end of the month and just discussing where our finances are and what we should tweak, then, okay, if that's what works best for them, cool.

Just avoiding that overall financial disaster that leads to divorce. But I think, we have seen, as far as I understand, that combining finances, typically, to a better form of success in terms of meeting overall goals that we're trying to hit financially as a couple. Have you already had that discussion yet, the financial discussion? Nah, but we're pretty, I know she's pretty good at personal finances, but too early for that. You think she cares either way if you said you want separate finances that she would disagree with that? Or do you think she's just easygoing, whatever is fine? No, she doesn't know how much I make.

She's never asked and I've never told her. She doesn't know what I'm worth. So I don't think she really, she doesn't really shouldn't care about that. Tell her to the camera. Tell her to the camera how much I make. Yeah. It was a joke. It was a joke.

Well, it varies on a month-to-month basis. She doesn't watch the channel. Yeah. That's a stupid joke. What are your thoughts on universal basic income? Not educated enough on the subject to have an informed opinion. And it would be irresponsible to give an opinion on something I'm not informed enough about. What do you think about giving everyone a thousand dollars a month?

As long as it's not my $1,000, go for it. What if a small portion of your taxes funded that, but you also received a, $1,000 a month. Well, if it statistically in the end proves to be a better economic system, I will go with whatever the better economic system is, but I would need to see the results. What if you pay in more than you receive? Again, if it shows better economic results for the country and everyone, then it works.

If it's proven to do so, fuck yeah, do it. If it's proven that our current system is better than that, no, is what I would do. I'm trying to wheezel every way around getting you to answer that. Well, I don't know. I'm not informed enough about it. I tend to be in favor, believe it or not. Okay. I tend to think that universal basic income would,

as long as that could eliminate a lot of the other wasteful programs out there, I think it's a better idea. Because from what I've seen, it has to go through so many people that, like there's too many cooks in the kitchen for the government to operate efficiently. So it seems like we have so much waste. So if we could cut out all the, you know, a lot of the things that are just wasting money,

but give everyone $15 a month. You know? That's what you get. $1,500 a month. It's up to you to you could budget however you want to, but everyone gets it, whether you make a billion dollars or nothing. Once you turn 17 years old, you get $1,500 a month. Okay. I think it'd be quite interesting to see what happens on that. Cool. I could be wrong. I could be terribly wrong. Maybe we should run for president. We want Andrew Yang on the podcast. This is... You haven't had Andrew? No, we've asked. We have been asking

for like a year and a half to get... He's not doing anything. Andrew Yang? Andrew, please. I have a feeling we're reaching out to people. We're not getting to Andrew Yang. We're getting somewhere up the chain. Andrew's up here. And we're getting halfway through. And so we're getting cut off before they even know we're interested. Like the principle.

That would be Andrew. Before the podcast, Graham told me he'd give you a thousand hours a month for the rest of your life if you came on the podcast. Maybe not that much. Maybe not that much. But Andrew, we could work out a deal to get you on the podcast and Bernie Sanders and AOC. These are three huge guests. We love to have a discussion.

Would HEOC want to do it? I feel like... No, she wouldn't want to do. She would have nothing to gain too much to lose for whatever her... Yeah, I think Andrew Yang, we'd just talk about universal basic income. Bernie Sanders would be incredible. Yeah, he's basically done with life. May as well do it.

Well... That's not how we're going to get him on. Now our chances went down. Yeah. All right, Caleb, is there anything else we should talk about? But we have you here. As always, you guys should have hired me. Dix.

In an ounce of piece of shit. Let's see, Graham, what do I have a great question about? Should the minimum wage be increased? Oh, that's interesting. It's interesting. I mean, in Texas, the minimum wage is the federal minimum wage, but no one makes the minimum wage, at least in the larger cities.

Unfortunately, I know everyone's going to hate this answer. Truly, it's not a topic I've cared enough about to become informed enough to have a good answer. I don't know, because I have not cared enough. This is not one of my interest points that I'm like, oh, let me study up to cause and effects of minimum wage. I've heard some arguments for. I've heard some arguments against where do the facts lie. I don't know. And I want to be where the facts lie. But I don't know the facts. Hey, but that's a good answer though. No one should have an opinion. No one should

force themselves to have an opinion based on their ideology. But that's why I refuse to subscribe to an ideology because then anytime someone asks for your opinion on something, it has to stem from your ideology has to stem to the politician you worship that you voted for has to stem for the political party that you subscribe to i hate that wherever reality is and reality changes all the time you're not wrong if you flip-flop because you know new information has come down just be where facts are at the time and if it changes it's okay to change your mind it's okay to change your mind i don't like coming from an ideological place there's wherever the facts are and i might not be informed like on that one if there are facts that suggest the minimum wage should be a certain

amount, I will go for that. If it suggests that minimum wage should not exist, I will go for that. I don't know what it is. Here's a follow-up to that. What do you think happens when you die? I was raised Christian. I've become more spiritual in general. I try to have faith.

I struggle with it, and I feel like when I die, I rot in the ground. but I want to believe there's something more. I want to believe there's something more, but I struggle with it. Why is it you want to believe something, but you don't? Wouldn't that be if you want to believe something? You have the power to believe it. Yeah, probably, but, like, just, I went through, like, in high school, like a very rebellious atheist thing.

She's like, oh, my goodness. You know, I was raised in the church. How dare I need to go the complete opposite direction now. So, but, I mean, it's just, I don't know. I was raised that way. when you're raised away from birth, you know, you probably just kind of want to believe it. Instinctively, you know, they start pushing that on to you when you're like zero.

This is what I believe forever, you know, I was there every Sunday. And but then like all understanding of just the universe that we have doesn't suggest anything exists. So it's just like my logic versus what I want to believe. It's a big cognitive dissonance. So real answer is, uh, I don't know. I don't know what happens afterwards, but I'm vibing.

Let's just have a quick death. Would you say you're happier now than you were in other stages in your life? The day happier stage. Yeah, I'm happy. I wish I could fly, but I'm happy. What are like the main things that are making you happy?

Is the financial security a part of that? I mean, no, no, because I feel less secure now than I ever have. But I love running a team every day. I love coming here Monday through Friday, and I love building something. It's so much fun. rather than being another cog in the machine,

it's so much fun. And knowing that it is one of the most rewarding things on a daily, monthly annual basis, getting the emails and tweets and whatever, of just people who have changed their lives, my goodness. Whether it's coming from a selfish point or selfless point, I don't know, but getting, knowing that you're actually helping people

and people have literally changed their lives because of something you're making is like the most rewarding thing ever. I mean, you've probably felt it. It's incredible. And it brings so much joy to my life. So I think I'm happier now than I ever happened. Probably when I was an ignorant little toddler running around and making things sticky and stinky.

I was probably actually happier. But I don't remember that time. So in adulthood, I'm the happiest I've ever been, I think. Awesome. Kenneth, thank you so much. As a reminder, make sure to subscribe to the iced coffee hour. We're closing it on a million subscribers. It's my birthday next month.

Please subscribe trying to beat them. Thank you. Until next time. Cool. I loved it. Thank you. Awesome.