The Iced Coffee Hour - From $0 To Millionaire | Investing For Beginners with Dumb Money

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

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Hey there, Dave here. Welcome back to the 44th ever episode of the iced coffee hour. I'm Dave with my two good friends here. We have Graham, we have Jack, and we're ready to talk about iced coffee. But how much is the podcast made? Funny you should ask. It's made $48,379.46. Wow.

That was so good. Mateo, you got to tell us now what that breaks down to. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Dave. Yeah, well, Dave, thank you so much for coming out here. Absolutely. I love coming to L.A. I don't get to do it that often.

So this is the first time I've been on an airplane in a year. How was it? It was actually, I'm fully vaccinated now. Wow. That's why I'm here. That's incredible. But still, everyone wearing their masks, I absolutely would be freaked out on a plane,

even with masks, without the vaccination. So I was super happy to be. vaccinated, but everything was fine. People were wearing masks. Everyone was well maintained. Yeah. We flew to Utah to meet with the Stradman, and that was our first time flying in probably the same, about a year

and a half, and we were surprised. I mean, they were so stringent on everything. I think they were taking temperatures as you were, like, going through, like certain things. I felt safe. Like, I felt probably more safe on an airplane than I would, like, going out to a restaurant. Really? Yeah.

I felt nervous that whole time. It was Because, yeah, because you're crammed in a small space. I think that you're crammed in a small space, but I think getting onto the plane is the riskiest part. Because actually on the plane, they have, like, good air circulation. They turn the air over inside the plane way more frequently than a restaurant does. I think there's way more liability. If an airline messes up, they got a lot riding. If a restaurant messes up, it's like you can't really prove it's the restaurant.

I don't know. Anyway. If you have 300 passengers on a plane all get COVID, you know. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, anyway, thank you so much for coming on today. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself for people who aren't familiar with you? I love the Dumb Money Live.

You know us from Dumb Money Live. Right. You may know me from Dumb Money Live. That's just basically we started that when we went into lockdown and we started putting our video conference calls that we were just having amongst my two friends, Chris and Jordan, talking about stocks. What are we doing in the market? And it kind of turned into a show. But before that, we had an original Dumb Money. channel that was all about our startup investing, which we, again, we just decided to start taking

cameras with us to meetings, business meetings that most people would, you know, never see, but we kind of thought of it as the anti-shark tank where basically we were, we're entrepreneurs, we're trying to find the next big startup investment. And it was hopefully kind of an interesting blog style format to do that. Give us some clickbait here. We got to clickbait the title. How much money are you investing with. Give us some stats that we could just hit him in the beginning. I can tell you that $25 million is where, is that where we are now? We're more than that. But at the end of the year, we had turned around $10 million into $25 million. So that's kind of what we're investing with.

We're investing our own money. We are not a fund. We have nothing to sell. We had a really hard time with YouTube because we didn't have ads running at all. And so nobody was able to even find our channel at first. And so as soon as we turned the ads on, people started finding the channel, which is, you know, took a little growing pains to learn that. What do you mean by we are investing with $25 million? It's me and my two buddies. And we have kind of just done this our whole lives. We, well, not our whole lives, but once we sold a software company, we had some money. And instead of going to work for another company, we started to start investing in other startup. All right. So we got to go way back. Tell us from the beginning,

How do you start a software company, sell it, then turn 10 million into 25? We got so many questions here. There's too many pieces to the puzzle that are missing right now. You just have to subscribe to the money channel. That's all you really need to know. So I don't know. There's not an easy one, two, three process. Started like age 10.

So when I was 10 years old, I wanted to be a radio DJ. And so that's where my kind of fascination with media. And that's the whole reason we're on YouTube now is I just thought, now that I'm kind of retired and working for myself, why not have some fun with it and make videos? But that's, I don't do it for a job. It's just something fun to do. Sure.

So when I was 10, I wanted to be a DJ and that made me want to eventually go to film school. I went to film school. Never actually got to use that in my professional career at all. I went to, so I went to NYU, graduated, lived in L.A. for a year. Okay. I thought I was going to be in the entertainment industry, decided that wasn't for me. So then I went into basically radio production out of my bedroom, and I was doing voiceovers

and production for stations all over the country. I sold that company when I was probably, what was that, 20 years old, and 22-ish, went to work for a little startup company called Broadcast.com right after Yahoo had acquired it from Mark Cuban for four. billion dollars. It was a huge, huge thing that put Mark Cuban on the map. Right. And so from that point, I was working a corporate job at a big startup company, and that was really my business school education. Film school didn't prepare me for the business world, but working at Yahoo during the heyday of, you know, before Google was a thing, Yahoo was the, you know, the homepage of the internet.

Before that, it was AOL. Remember that? A.m. Yeah. Yeah. Say that? You could do the voiceover there. Well, how do... Ding, ding? You've got mail. Oh, if that doesn't make you want to hit the like button, I don't know what will. Two quick questions. How much did you sell that voiceover company for? Not much.

That was not like a life-changing amount of money. It was not much. But it was enough so that I could move out of my parents' backhouse, which is where I was living at the time. I put foam all up in the closet, and I was doing that. out of their backhouse. Why would they want to buy it? Did they grow it? Yeah.

So we were doing production for radio stations, 40 or so stations all around the world. I was the voiceover for Power 100 FM and Istanbul Turkey. What? Because they liked American-sounding voices and I was cheap. I was running ads in the back of Radio and Records magazine. Wow. Which is like a print publication. And, yeah, I was trying to start.

Give us an example of what you would say, like, welcome back to Power 106. where hip-hop lives. I don't know. Something like that. Well, so in DJ voice or in, like, announcer voice. Like, how you would do it. Like, like, The new mix 96 is serving up hits.

That's the friendly voice. And then you have the, uh, Z 100 FM. That kind of voice. And then you have. That is so cool. Keep on. Do more. Uh, you put me on the spot.

So, uh, the best mix of the 80s, 90s. And today, the new mix 1029. I'm Dave Hanson. We got another. all requests and dedication hour coming right up. You can start puking like that. That's cool. Yeah.

Jack, you got to learn how to do that. Graham, you try. You try. I need a script. I can't just freestyle it. That's the hard part. Yeah. Hey, Graham, I'm calling in to make a request.

Welcome to 97.1. I don't know. I can't do it. Welcome to smooth jazz. 87. I don't know. I actually got. to be a smooth jazz DJ for one night when we were, again, I was 18 years old. I was in high school.

And the program director for the radio station that I was working in was moving over to turn this smooth jazz station into a top 40 station. And the last night before we pulled the plug on smooth jazz, they put me on the air from like, you know, 8 p.m. until midnight. And I got to, you know, switch the station over into being a top 40, but I got to do smooth jazz for a night. Wow. That's very cool. I was 18. I didn't know any of the music I was playing. It was great.

You should have done the intro in that voice. Welcome back to the 44th. Welcome back to the 44th ever annual. That's amazing. I need a script too. That is cool. So how did you get a job, like a corporate job, with a film degree? Well, it was a production kind of company.

It was broadcast.com, which was streaming audio stuff onto the internet and later video. And I started, what was my first job there? I was like a producer who was helping coordinate production, like just getting satellite feeds in and putting them into an encoder and sending it out on the internet. And over the course of 10 years in that corporate job, that was my education. And I basically did 10 different jobs. I was a website manager. I was a director of marketing. I ended up in the marketing

department and we did so many cool projects that Yahoo never really got credit for. Things like Crash the Super Bowl that Doritos Super Bowl promo that for years they would let people submit their commercials and then if you would get chosen, that was originally a Yahoo promotion that my team did.

Interesting. So then what evolved after that that got you into investing? large sums of money. Yeah. So all during that time, I was fascinated with investing, and I was investing the small sums of money that I had and learning. And that was probably, you know, the reason that I feel confident in investing now

is because I've made so many mistakes when I was younger. So I was doing just crazy Yolo option trades before Yolo was even a thing. Like, because instead of having the capital to actually buy shares of a company, I would be like, oh, well, I can control 100 shares at a time if I buy these out-of-the-money options, knowing that I'll probably lose all of my investment. But it was kind of gambling meets investing. What year was this? But first, we have to talk about one of my favorite services out there.

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You will also receive $5 by clicking the link below or heading to Privacy's com slash ICH. You really don't want to miss out. That is privacy.com slash ICH. Thank you so much privacy and back to the podcast. That was, well, all through college. So that was in the late 90s. Okay. How much were trades back then? It was ridiculous. So back before, so I got in on, you know, using online, I used e-trade. That was my first online brokerage. But I had an old-fashioned broker who was a human being who you would call up and have to make a trade. And I think it was like $50 every time you wanted to buy or sell a share. And so, and options were even more. So once E-Trade came around with their, was it $30 at the time or something, that seemed like, oh my God, I can do $30

trades now and then they got cut in half. 15. No. I remember I used Scott trade back in the day. And I think that was, I think it was between $7 and $12 per trade either way. So it didn't matter how much you wanted to buy either. It's like if you wanted to buy one share for $15, well, that's going to cost you $12. That is a lot to make up. Yeah. And that's another reason that options kind of helped with that because you had a better chance of being able to pay the commission on this thing that would have, I mean, it was not a great investment strategy, but I want to hear about your options trading and how that's going because some of the earlier episodes of this podcast. I love to talk about options. I love to talk about. You know what, Jack would have made more money, though. How do you just

bought the actual stock instead of the option? I would have made more money if I was buying call options instead of selling call options. You were writing call options on uncovered positions? No, covered calls. Okay. So I was still making money. I was still making money. I was still making money. I was still making money. I was still totally like making money. But I was mostly making it just due to like selling out of the money call options. So I was making money on the appreciation. And then I would end up losing money most of the time on like the actual options contract. That was after my first 20 out of 20 profitable options trades. Those were all.

One percent each. Yeah, they were very, very conservative. But yeah, that's. But that's what you need to do to learn and get into it. I love you're doing it. And that's kind of why we do dumb money is to just get out there and let people start thinking about investing and start thinking about things that they may have never thought about.

I think that the whole idea that Robin Hood lets you invest. for nothing and it makes it easy in a game. I love that. Yeah. I actually kind of agree with you. I think so long as people are investing, even if they're making mistakes, losing, even like a few thousand dollars, at least they're out here doing it, you know? Well, just know your risk tolerance, know what you're willing to lose and you should be okay with it. If you know that I'm, I have set this money aside, this is not what I need to pay my rent. This is not what I need to pay for my life expenses. This is just extra money. Go for it. There's not much of a difference, though, between Robin Hood right now and a casino.

I'm all for the gamification of it. I love being able to get a free stock and you go and see the confetti and you go and swipe up to buy a stock and it's just like people are clapping for it. I love it. But there's not much of a difference between that and putting your money on roulette.

I disagree. I disagree. Most of my friends that use Robin Hood don't do these crazy like short term out of the money call options. They just buy like common stock. Like they just buy equity. That's how I see a lot of my friends do it.

And I know a lot of people use it as a casino, but I wouldn't say that it's like comparable to a casino. And I think you can do both. You can actually go to a casino and be very conservative in your gambling, right? You know the odds. You can play a game that you have that 51%. There's a smart way to do anything. And then there's the gambling way to do it. And I think you can use Robin Hood for either.

And I think that it's fine if you want to have fun sometimes and just make some crazy. I bought GameStop. I did. And I knew that I was either going to. it was going to be a huge winner for me, or I would just cut my losses at about, you know, half. Yeah. What did you buy GameStop at?

I have no idea. I bought it in the first wave of GameStop's insanity. So it must have been like $50, $60 around there? Okay. I do so many things. Numbers don't mean anything to me. But basically I know that I lost about half of what I invested. Wow.

Okay. That was what I was, this was my risk capital that I was, you know, not needing the money. And for me, it was, I don't really remember, but it was probably around $100,000. And that was just, that was a gamble. So you bought my shares that I sold. Yeah. So I literally just transferred $100,000 to grams.

Yeah. Thank you. And you're comfortable losing $100,000. Yeah. How? I feel like, even for me, it's like locking in a loss of $100,000, I immediately think, like, all the things I could have done with that. But are you also thinking of all the things that you can do with the money that you haven't

sold and all of your crazy stocks that have appreciated that you're not willing to sell because of tax implications? No, but I feel like losses for me are so much harder than the gain. Like the gain, I know it's kind of like, all right, it's there. I could use it if I need to. But a loss, especially a realized loss. That to me is like, all right, that money's gone. It's definitely not coming back.

and I could have bought all these other things instead. Yeah, I could have bought some really nice vacations. That's the one thing that it really gets me because I'm a little bit cheap when it comes to actually spending money on things, but I am less cheap when it comes to like the opportunity of making money on something. So, yeah, that would be a really nice $50,000 vacation if you think of it that way. But I think of it as a loss that I get to now not have to pay taxes on some of the money that I, made in another stock. So it's a $50,000 loss. Okay. You're great at separating emotions and investing. You have to be. That's a total skill. A total skill. Yeah. And so probably the thing that I learned when I was

young was that buying the dip is a thing. I would just get freaked out. It's going down. It's never coming back. I can't afford it. This is too much. I was maybe on margin and forced to sell or just like had paper hands and had to lose out on stocks that had I just held on for another year even it would have totally turned around I lived through the

the dot-com bubble right I was working at Yahoo when the stock they gave me all this it was in 1999 when I started working there that was the year they were added to the S&P 500 and they gave me stock options on the day that I started and that was the day that they were added to the S&P

So that was a all-time high for them. And they kept going up. They kept going up. Within a couple months, I was a paper millionaire. And I never made more than like $50,000 a year at that point in my life. And so that was just insane, but I couldn't sell it. And within the time of the vesting of those options, I was underwater. And those options pretty much for the entire 10 years that I was there.

They kept giving me more and more. So it worked out. What's the lockup years? Is it a year? It was one year. a vesting for the initial, I think it was a four-year vesting, but for the initial hit, it was a full year before then they started vesting monthly or something. Yikes. Were you able to sell after that year?

Yeah. But all those were worthless. They were underwater. So I had to wait for them to give me more options the next year. So it's just call options that they buy, like on your behalf, basically? They basically issuing. Yeah. And then they expired worthless.

They expired. And they were actually 10-year call options, and they expired worthless 10 years later. That's how bad the dot-com bubble was. I have no idea. That's unsubble. Dot-com bubble was terrible for some of the stocks. Cisco was a big one. Cisco was one of the biggest runners during the dot-com bubble.

And even today, like 20 years later, it still has not recovered to the same price it was back in 2000. I found an old login on my Yahoo, where you tracked your portfolio at the time. And like half the stocks on there were completely out of business, like zero, is quote even available, including Yahoo's ticker, because they were required. fired so many times. And then the others, like, if I had stayed in so, I can't remember which ones, but if I had stayed in some, like, tried and true companies, Amazon was one of the stocks that I held back then, that, you know, it was going down, down, down, and I lost money in Amazon. How did you lose money in Amazon in the 90s? Like, I must be the worst investor ever, but it's, it's, you know,

you sell without waiting. Are you worried about another bubble today? Where do you see the warning signs? flashing. I wish I had that crystal ball. I'm worried about it, but I'm not proactively in fear about it. So when we had the big crash in March, last March, we're already in March again. Yeah, I know. Did this crash correspond with the last crash? Almost. No, no. I wonder if it's like Bitcoin, where it's going to be like a cyclical thing. every March 4th. It's like, yeah.

The eyes of March. Very close, actually. I think the bottom was March 23rd. So we'll see if we... And the top was like March 11th, right? I don't know. I don't know the exact top. But no, no, it was late February, I think was the top.

Was it? And then it slowly started going down. I was on vacation at the time and lost a million dollars. Wow. Because I was not paying attention. And that is a huge lesson. But I was able to aggressively get in there and I basically was shorting the SPY and also just shorting it and also buying puts on it.

And I was able to not only get back to break even, but I doubled my net worth in the past year. Wow. So you were buying puts in March. As it was falling apart, I was a week late. So I made a video on my first channel, hey there, Dave here, all about how I paused the stock market as it was in free fall. I watched that video. I watched that video back then. I'm going to check that video out right after that.

You would like it. Because it does talk about how I used options to... That's amazing. Explain how that works for everybody who is not going to watch that video. But first, we have to thank our sponsor, Surf Shark VPN. Have you ever been searching how to make your own 20-cent iced coffee only to get Starbucks ads for the next few days? Well, that is because advertisers and people are constantly stealing information online.

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It's cool. Easy. No. Basically, when the stock, okay, when stock prices, are going down. If you want to not let, and you own that stock, and essentially I'm saying the S&P because my portfolio was a pretty good representation of the S&P. I had, you know, Amazon and Apple and Microsoft and, you know, all of those tech companies that were going down at the same rate as the S&P. That's kind of what my portfolio was doing. So I used the S&P as a proxy for that.

And essentially, as the market was going down, I was buying puts so that that, that's, that, you basically gives me the right, but not the obligation, to buy. I'm going to get this backwards. You're forcing someone else to buy the shares away from you. Yes. When you sell, when you buy, and you buy a put, you're forcing someone else to buy the shares. And so I, it's a hedge. Yeah. If you have to. Exactly. And, and, and, and but I, but I was, basically, it was a covered hedge because my portfolio was backing it up. So I knew that worst case, I'd break even and, and, and sit on the sidelines during a recovery, but best case, it keeps going down, and I'm going to profit on it continuing to go down. So smart. I love that. That's so cool. So wait, so you,

how much did you make during all of that? Was you said a million dollars? Well, I lost a million, but you made a million. But I hadn't actually sold anything, so I didn't actually take any losses. Got it. Okay. I was able to, before the market even started correcting, I made a million dollars back. So that was an actual made million once the market did correct. In all, it was probably a million and a half in a month and a half period. Wow. That's incredible. But then last week, I mean, over the last, I don't know when this is going to air,

but remember when the market was going down so bad for like five days in a row? That's a million dollars, right? It's easy come, easy go. But you just have to kind of be persistent. Now, is that in the $25 million portfolio? No, that is just in my. portion of that, which is about 10. Okay.

And, you know, together, it's probably, we're, we don't all disclose every dollar. So I say that my, my main investing portfolio is about 10 million Chris's, I think, is 25, and Jordan doesn't disclose his. So we're at about 35 of disposable. Does Jordan not disclose his because it's the lowest or because it's the most? It's got to be one or the other. I can't tell you either one on that. But I think it's the most.

Gordon did well because he was one of the co-founders of the software company that we sold. And I came in. Oh, it's got to be the most. Chris and I came in a little late on that, not as co-founders, but his founding partners. Okay. It's the most. He's the most conservative of our investing. I think I would be too.

I think as I've grown in my portfolio, the less risk I want to take. I'm okay taking, like, thrown 10 grand here and there. I think my 10 would be the equivalent of your 100. where if I were to lose 10 and lock in a loss, it is what it is. So I think maybe you just have a higher threshold. Yeah, but I also have a higher demand. You know, I want to make more money.

Like that's my drive. Yeah. To get to the point, basically I got to the point where I knew I would not have to work when I hit, I think, $2 million. And from there, I was like, okay, what do I want to do with my life? What can I do? I just want to travel. I want to have fun.

I just want to, I enjoy the market. I enjoy making. videos? What do I like? And so that's kind of what I have focused on. Is that the point where you decided you're going to do the financial independence route when you hit two? I mean, I never really thought of it as, you know, following someone's system. But yeah, when I had $2 million in cash or in equities, I was like, yeah, that's good. I know that worst case scenario, I can stretch this out and survive. The crazy, I'm still just like the same level of worried. It doesn't matter how much money I have. I feel exactly the same.

in terms of like, I'm worried like something's going to happen. I'm not going to have money to pay for it all the time still. Well, I mean, what are you invested in now? Are you fully invested in equities? No. I think eight, well, if we're, are we talking gross? I think like eight and a half real estate, four and a half, four six stocks, two something cash, and then, I don't know, 600 grand and just like random.

Yeah. 700 and random but 300 4GT oh yeah 4GT yeah and a 4GT that's a good investment that's a I would lump that in with real estate it's a kind of like that it's appreciating asset if someone offered me how much 350 no it's not worth it to sell 400 350 4 I would sell it at 4 I feel like that's it yes you'd be you'd be immediately a buyer again I would get a golf I would get the golf

version of the 4Gs I'd spend 450 and get a golf so I I've come out 50 grand of my own money by the Gulf. I'm going to have to go out to Vegas and see that vehicle. So next time I'm out there. You could buy it. You could buy it. No. I'm not a car person.

To me, that's just not, that's never been my thing. I literally have, every car that I bought, it was like, they gave me this as a loaner at the dealership. And I'm like,

yeah, that's pretty good. I'll buy that next time. Like my, I have a range rover Valar now. And I had that because it was like, those are nice. Those are a pretty deluxe car.

They're not as bad as you would think. So that's a four cylinder, right? Right? You're a car guy. Yeah, so it's a, I could be wrong. I mean, it's a four door, I can tell you that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe it's a four-cylinder car, so it gets really good gas mileage. The least prices on those cars are really affordable.

They're not bad, and they look so good. You could throw up a picture of this and just see if I'm right or not, but I really liked it. Actually, the dealership gave me an evoke, and I was like, oh, I don't like those. And I was like, yeah, it's a little squatty in the back. I didn't really like it. But then when I turned it back in, I was like, what is that? It was all shiny and new in the lobby. So I took that home.

And I think my lease is almost up, so I don't know what to get next. Tesla. Tesla Model X. That's really what I've always said that that's what I should buy. You should. I don't drive, though. Like, I think you put 5,000 miles on my car this past year. That's a decent amount, though.

Yeah. But that's a decent amount. I'm sure. I plays effect. I like the Model X because of the doors. That's really. Get one. If it was just a little bit bigger, they look cool.

Back to the Future is my favorite movie. I've always wanted a DeLorean. So if I bought a stupid car, it would be a DeLorean. Really? Yeah. Andre Jick wants a DeLorean really badly. Really? Yeah.

And it made sense, like, as soon as he told me... Did he want the tricked out version with a flux capacitor in it? Yes, he does. Okay. Yeah. But as soon as he told me that he wanted a DeLorean, I'm like, wait a second, that's a great car to get. It is. Part of me wanted a DeLorean.

But I'm not going to... Just get one really quickly. Yeah, I'll get it right now. How funny would it be if we all three got them? And then drove them. Just by his house. They've gone up in value a lot lately. Those cars used to be like $18,000, $20,000 a few years ago.

They're all now selling for like $30, $35,000. Do you think it's just all alternative investments right now are just like picking up? Yeah. If you're buying NFTs of like random things, then yeah, there's a lot of alternative investment going on. Everything, like watches, Pokemon cards, like everything is super high right now. Why is that? So odd. Why?

I don't know. Is it hobbies? People have too much time right now. We've had a lot of free time and some free money got dropped in their bank accounts. And I don't know. I've never really been a collector of anything either. So, it's, Pokemon's never really made sense to me. We had on dumb money that $3,000 fake Pokemon.

Oh, we should talk about that. So let me explain this. So Sebi sends me this video minutes after it happens and you need to watch this immediately and react to it. And for a long live stream like that, I'm like, let me at least scroll and see what I'm going to react to and just make sure it's worth it. I started watching it. And I couldn't react to it because I watched the whole thing because I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. So you bought at the time the most expensive first edition box of unopened Pokemon cards ever. It was right after Logan Paul bought a $300,000 box.

We were scrambling because we wanted to open one. We knew that the market for these was going to. to accelerate because they're now famous and now people are going to want these boxes. And so we bought one and how did... $300,000 or how much was it? $375,000. Yeah. And the guy who actually was on Logan Paul's show, hand delivered it to us.

He secured one, brought it to us. We had Leonhardt and some Pokemon experts standing by ready to look at it. And then comes time to open it. and it was a re-sealed box. There were fake, like there were real cards, but there were not the cards that were supposed to be in there.

There were not first edition cards. And it was just, we had no idea what to even do. Now, we were not even expecting this live stream to be a big thing. At the time, live, only like 2,000 people simultaneously were watching. It was small because it's a smaller channel.

And then within, within two days, there were, you know, quarter million views on a video that basically was a huge, failure. We had people saying how poor the production was. How can you do a box break without having a camera on the box? I'm like, dude, I was, I was buying gear off of Amazon the night before just to be able to give you that much quality. Wouldn't you think, though, that if you were spending $375,000 on a box, you know, like a few weeks ahead of time to fly Leon hard out there, like, collectibles guru is, oh, he's local, okay. He's local. All right, okay, fair enough. It all happens

so quick. It literally, I had collectibles guru in DMs on Twitter in one stream and then my Amazon cart in the other. And it was all happening within a few days. So what was your immediate reaction when he opened up the box and it was like all fake? What was your response? It was just shock. I didn't even know what to do.

Like, do we pull the thing off the air? Is this, what do we do? But it actually just ended up being the only thing that was good about it. Nobody would have ever seen our $375,000. Right. Pockemon box had it not been fake. So, I mean, we have people saying, oh, you staged this whole thing. I can tell you, this was not at all staged.

And it was shocking. And I didn't even, it was like I was in my own world. Right. Because I'm also monitoring audio and people's mics are going out. And so it was just, the whole thing was a disaster. So you were in shock. You weren't feeling like angry or you weren't feeling sad or anything like that. No, no. I mean, it wasn't my money, first of all.

So that made it completely like, oh, well, it sucks to be Chris right now. But no, we haven't actually transacted the money. So it wasn't like we were going to be at a boss on this. I was actually glad that we didn't wait and not open it. Because, yeah, it would be more dramatic to do a box break for whatever the event charity thing is eventually and have it just be already a perfectly sealed box. I'm so glad that we actually opened it. because that would have been a huge disaster.

Now, you didn't pay for it, right, ahead of time? Like, you had the cash, but... We had a suitcase full of cash, because that's how... You either buy it using Bitcoin or cash, and so we... Is it a wire transfer or not work? Apparently, they don't do that in this crazy world of...

In Pokemon, are you serious? It's either cash or big... I think it was all... We actually did end up giving them the suitcase of cash like a week later. That day? Oh, a week later. After a resource you guys... What do you do with that much cash, though?

That's a pain to deal. deal with that much cash? Even getting that much cash was a huge pain. How do you do that? They basically give you a clear garbage bag, and you're just walking through the parking lot with $375,000 in cash before you can put it in your little suitcase. I have some B-roll clips that you can insert into this.

Now, to get the cash, you didn't have to go in like an airplane or take the cash anywhere. You just, you just, you just, no, no. Just a local bank. They had security there, but it was not like an armed guard or anything. It was just like a dude who worked at the bank who said, yeah, if you're parked right there, I'll keep an eye on you. Wow. Did they question what this is for?

I don't really recall. They must not believe you. Yeah, I'm surprised that it was just so nonchalant. I think we in advance told them, you know, because I don't know that they always have that much cash just sitting in the vault. So I'm sure that there was like an order in advance. So they knew we were coming. It wasn't just like, hey, I want to write a check from $400,000 and take it out in cash. What bank is it?

I was a Wells Fargo. Ew. Nasty. That's what I, so it's actually Chris's money. I would never buy a $400,000 Pokemon. But it was his money, his bank. I always give him a hard time for Wells Fargo because every time he needs to wire money, he physically goes into a branch.

Why? Because he's an idiot. J.P. Morgan. Yeah, I get free wire transfers now at Chase. I use, I don't know, that's him now. Oh, that was nice. That's funny. No, I use Bank of America, and I can do it all on my phone.

And if you watch any of the original Dumb Money channel, you see, like, every time we need to wire money for some startup we're investing in, there's always like this scene of us driving to the bank. So Chris can do it while I'm doing it on my phone. Yeah. I had a terrible experience with Bank of America. Two terrible experiences. The first one was I wired money from one account to another. And I forget what it was, but I think I switched the routing and account number, or there was some sort of like a kind. common error that was there.

The wire was sent, but it was never received. And it was 150 grand. Oh. Try tracing that back. And trying to reach somebody at Bank of America. They have wire hours that closed down at like 5 p.m. Eastern time. It takes like three hours just to reach somebody who's in, who then is like, oh, we got to transfer you over to this person.

And then it goes to a voicemail. Imagine waiting on hold for like two hours to go to a voicemail. It was terrible. Eventually the money was reverted back. I was so thankful, but that was really just a scary experience. I had something similar happen with E-Trade back when I didn't really know what I was doing and I got into some kind of a position that I should never have been in, some naked call position or something that they ended up like margin calling me

and Fed calling me on the same day and just emptying my entire account. And I'm like, what? You can't do this. everything go. You shouldn't have even let me get into that trade. I am not qualified to make that kind of investment, but I can't remember. It worked out in the end. I finally got through to someone who understood, but yeah. So what's the plan with the charity box break? Are you going to be selling the packs? How does this work? I'm not sure exactly the logistics of what we're doing, but basically it'll be similar to other charity box breaks. We'll be selling packs. We'll be giving

some to people in the dumb money community. We'll be giving some probably to some creators. Giving some to creators? How do you creators give this? And also what constitutes a creator? I think you probably both qualify. I'll definitely keep you in mind. Yeah.

Let us know. Okay. Ooh, okay. Now, would you do something like an NFT associated with that? Because I feel like you could either do like the round. thing and you buy into it and you raffle off, you would make a lot more money for charity, I feel like doing the raffle.

The bidding system was interesting, what Logan Paul did, but those prices were just insane, but he had the NFT attached to it. So what is your thoughts? I don't know. I would love to figure out an NFT that makes sense. It's just so hard to figure out something that makes sense.

I own a Logan Paul NFT. I have no idea if it'll ever be worth anything. What did you buy? I bought one of the original. original 3,000 or 2,000 that he did for one ether each. Okay. I bought one of those in the aftermarket when they had already depreciated. They depreciated that fast?

What about the original box break one? That's the one that I have. So he issued, that's where he made his $5 million. No, no, no, no. They're called box break. But then he had 44 unique ones. The 44 unique ones. When you received a pack, you also got one of those.

That's what I'm talking about. I don't know with those. I haven't found. those in the secondary market. At all. I haven't seen them, but I haven't really shopped. I looked them up once, and I saw the last one sold for $38,500, which I was shocked.

Yeah. Does any of it make sense, really? Do you want to have a gram coin? Maybe. I think, I think, I think there could be a lot of potential. I think for an NFT, Kevin mentioned this in one of his videos. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BetMGM Casino and check out our newest exclusive.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. And we mentioned it with Blow on the podcast last week. Doing an NFT that's valid for like, let's say, one phone call a month or like one mentorship thing a month or something like that, where they have access to me for an hour. And that could be resold in the future. Basically a resellable subscription that the person who bought it the first time can change the price. Yes.

And then you would get a percentage if the transactions happen. Yes. But it would be backed by a service. In terms of the artwork, I see there being some value for certain pieces. Right now it's a crapshoot. I think right now it's like throwing a shot in the dark. Is Beeple going to be a household name? Is he going to be the banksy?

I think people is one of those. People is because he was the first, the first to have these huge $6 million sales. I think that that kind of cemented his place in history and he will continue to have value. I think that that is kind of like owning a Picasso, right? I think that a bunch of these other random things are going to disappear. I also like Cryptopunks because they were the original original. And so I gave away 14 crypto daves for free, and I'm waiting to see if anyone sells them.

Right now, someone's offering $100 for one. There's no value at all. Oh, this is from your video, right? Yeah. So I just for fun, I thought, just to see what the process is, I want to show how easy it is to actually anyone can create one of these things. And what happens? If I just give them away and does anyone want them?

Yeah. Like within an hour, people were claiming them. I gave away one every hour for 12 hours. And like people were already offering, you know, they were free. And then five minutes later, they were $50. And there's some, right now there's an offer for like $170 or something. So like there's no value. There's, you can't do anything.

It's a picture of me pixelated with a stupid hat and glasses. That's it. I'm trying to get my dad to do an NFT. So he used to work for Disney throughout the 1980s and 1990s as an animator. And so he's done a lot of... We actually, in this box over here, we have a lot of the original animated artwork from like the Little Mermaid. Really? Yeah.

And like beauty and the beast. You wouldn't like store that in a nice climate-controlled environment? This has been sitting in a garage for like 30 years. I'll show you some pieces actually. You know what? You know what? While we're on the topic, let me pull out one piece here. So much for staying on track with a nice narrative.

Dude, we are just jumping from topic to topic. I'm with it, though. I like it. Who is this? Isn't that 101 Dalmatians? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So he was working on this. Yeah, 101 Dalmatians. How cool is that? So this is one of the original Disney sells. I have no idea how much these are worth. I'm never going to sell them, obviously. but he has his entire career basically just sitting in a garage right now and almost none of it is framed but eventually I want to get them all framed

but uh how is that this I want an original though I don't want a token version but now here's the thing I was telling him because he's he's just always done art um I think art in this sort of for it's it's difficult to sell but if he could create a digital version of his own version of like you know his own animations and sell an NFT version of that, just a one of one. I think then it has, and maybe I'm biased, because I'm talking about my dad here, so obviously I'm going to be like that bad. But I think there's something to be said about buying artwork from real artists and that

having value at some point. No, absolutely. And I think a digital version of a one of one from an artist that you respect, that you like, that definitely has value. And I don't know exactly how you're going to display it. I guess all frames in the future will be digital and you can just pull up whatever you want. But you could pull up any art, really. So the only thing is I own this and I can prove it because I have a copy of the blockchain.

Right. So. I agree. I think it's kind of a toss up right now with evaluations of NFTs. I know someone who made their own NFT, like digital artwork, they put it up online and sold it for like $400. And they have no following or any like background in digital art or like design or anything. They just sold it for $400. And they're like, oh, that was my first NFT, more to come.

Wow. It doesn't make sense. Well, it's so cool, though, that people can do that. I love anything that just gives more access to people to be able to sell whatever they want, to make something and be able to sell it. Like, can you imagine, like, if I was able to have YouTube when I was a kid, can you imagine how cool that would have been to, to, like, make videos when you're like, I don't know, how old you have to be to be on YouTube? But, like, when I was, when I was making mixtapes of me being a DJ. If I could have, like, sold those somehow back, like, and had an audience, that would have been super cool. Yeah.

Even Only fans. We got, we got to respect the OnlyFans here. But, like, there are creators making over a million dollars a month on OnlyFans. It just goes to show you. I don't know if right now just people have so much money to spend or if we're finding just new creative ways to make money. It's a little of both. Jack, how are you liking Onlyfans? It's great, actually.

Are you on Only fans? I'm kidding. Really? Little community. No, I'm not. I was going to say. What do you do there? I bet you would get people that would sign up for an only fans.

You would too. Like, maybe I'd get like five. I bet you'd get quite a few. What would I do on there? Like, money teasing? I don't know. I don't know. What is that?

What is money teasing? I just made it up. They're just like shaking money. I don't know. That's an interesting. in the making. Yeah. Yeah.

Should I make an only fan? I mean, maybe. Honestly, I would, what if, could I produce your content? I'm leaving. What would we post?

I don't know. What was the money clips with you and money? I don't know. Basically, it's like I'm in a bathtub just like full of $100. Yes.

Like that would, people would love that, dude. But it would have to be like PG stuff. Like I'm, we wouldn't be doing anything like crazy. Like PG.

Maybe PG 30. retain. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see. Well, anyway, that's, we really derailed your whole podcast. Yeah, okay. Let's go back to investing. What's your investing strategy now? What do you see in the market that scares you a little bit? I'm basically, the last month has scared me a little bit. And I don't know if I should be putting the brakes on, if I should be, you know, hedging again, if I should just let it ride, if I should be doubling down. I don't know what to do. So I really have just kind of taken a step back and not done anything

because long term, that's probably the right thing to do. What about the market worries you in the last month? The every day being red was a big problem. That, you know, I don't know if it's systemic. We're going to actually see this happen, you know, for two months in a row. Long term, I think we're fine. But we have inflationary worries. We have, you know, there's just so many things.

And I'm not a macroeconomics guy. I just play stocks. I almost felt a little easy about the market going down because when the market was going up like a percent every single day, I was like, how is this possible? But to see it just trace back and some stocks go back like 20, 30 percent, then it made me almost have some faith in the market. It's like, okay, maybe people aren't that crazy. Maybe there is some logic to this.

this. So that's kind of how I felt. Yeah. And that's great if that continues for a month or, you know, a few weeks and then we get some up days. What I would just absolutely terrifies me is if we had that happen for five years, where you have stagnation or, you know, it's just the market on a downward spiral, not big drops, not something that you wake up one day and go, oh, well, we had a 10% drop that, that's the end. And now it's going to go back up. But if we have, you know, 2% here, up 1, down 2, up 1, down 2, and that continues for a long time. That is what scares me. That's why you sell covered calls on your shares.

That's how you make money in like a stagnant market. And that's what I've been doing to hedge against like all of my equity holdings during this like last kind of like downturn or whatever, downfall, whatever you want to call it. Do things get called away from you frequently when you do that? No, no, because everything's been going down. So like nobody wants jack stocks. Nobody wants my socks. But fortunately, like, I've made a little bit of my money back. I'm still way down, but I would be way more down had I not sold these covered calls in my shares.

Are you picking stocks that have like a higher call price, like specifically? Like a higher premium? This is just in my Robin Hood account. So I have like a Robin Hood account, which is like my, you know, fund money, my risk, higher risk money. Then I have my TD account, which is buy and hold. then I have Vanguard, which is index funds. My Robin Hood account is all just like, yeah, high premium stock. Like I have a ton of Palantir.

I have Apple, which doesn't really have a high premium, but it's a little bit more volatile. I have Neo, stuff like that. So yeah, I will, you know, on the calls that I sell, I can usually get like 10% of the share cost with the premium. So the only thing that will really actually hurt me is if, you know, the stock plummets more than 10% or if the share price just like skyrockets

and I'm, you know, upside down on the, option, but I still make money on the appreciation and 10% premium as well. Yeah, I like doing that. It just got so time-consuming to monitor it and keep moving those call prices down. And, you know, you want to do it for your shorter, you know, weekly options instead of like the longer-term monthlies. And I usually just do monthlies because it's like less to worry about. Yeah. So that's the, that's the, like, I'm a little about simplifying. If it takes too much mental power, it's just like, is it even worth it? Oh, I'm not going to lie. Like sometimes I literally just go and rob and I click sell.

I click call. I just pick a random date and I like, I'm not kidding. Like, and it works, like, especially considering what recently happens. It works until it doesn't, though. No, but this is, I mean, this is hedging against my, my holding, so it's not like, if anything, it's less volatile, what I'm doing. But I swear, like, I literally,

I don't even, like, compare premiums, you know, if I can get, like, 5% in one week versus 12% in two weeks. Like, I don't, it doesn't matter to me. I'm like, I'll take anything, honestly. That's where we buy stocks, too. He just goes to the top movers section of Robin and it's like, I just buy. That one. Yeah. All right. I'll buy it.

I'll take them all. I feel like my portfolio is kind of the same way. Really? If you think about, I have a lot of Amazon and Tesla and Apple, and that is probably, you know, a half of my portfolio in three concentrated, three highly volatile stocks.

Wow. I mean, Apple is my, that Apple is my cash. And then I have a bunch of things that I play with, right? And so that's, that just kind of keeps it fun. So what's your net worth right now? I haven't even done that calculation.

So my fun brokerage account is around $10 million. My house is... That's your fun brokerage account? Do you have a fun account for $10? Jeez. I thought that was like everything. That's my primary... That's the majority.

That's the majority. How is it the fun one, though? Well, because it's the one that keeps growing. That's a lot of fun. $10 million? We don't need that much fun. Yeah. It was only four when I started, so it's been a lot of, that's why I call it fun.

Because it's, and I'm not going to take money out of that and put it into a boring account. I'm just going to keep that in fun. So you're a fun account. Yeah, and then I have a, my real estate is very limited to my house that I live in, which I don't know, three, three and a half. Did you pay for that outright or do you have a mortgage on that? At the time, I had a construction loan that I, you know, it was a million dollar construction. construction loan that I kept as a mortgage for about a year and then I just decided to pay it off. Why decide to pay off the home? Why wouldn't you see that as a good way to leverage your money?

You get like 3% on that as a cash out. That's true. For me, it just felt like I was more in control of all of my money if I didn't have this extra money that I was going to have to pay back at some point, right? It just gave me more clarity and as far as what I have, what I can invest. I don't know. It was kind of a weird, on paper by math, it probably doesn't make sense, but I just thought, this is the time. Just pay it off. One less thing to think about. Right. So you have $10 million in fund money, $4 million in real estate. Then what else? That's about it. What else is there? So your fun money, the 10-

I don't have, like a lakehouse. I don't have any exotic cars. Just a couple million here, a couple million here. I don't really remember where I put them. I try to keep it really simple. Right. Okay, that makes sense. I respect that. Having to think about money too much is just I'd rather just not think about it.

I want to get like that. It's overwhelming for me to think of all the things. Like just, I got emailed today like with six different like, oh, this electric account is getting billed today. And like making sure I switch that over to like the new, you know, business account and like property tax.

Like the accountant Carol, she wanted all the property tax statements. I got to get like eight property tax statements. It's horrible. Making sure all that gets paid and like the insurance. The insurance, I had to renew the insurances and they have to call like the bank account information. It's just, I envy just like one place.

You have like a house and a stock market account. And I basically stayed away from real estate because it just seems like a hassle. Like I get it. That's a good investment. It's totally, it's just something I haven't explored and I just am not as comfortable with it. And so I just haven't done it. I've been telling Jack about this.

that I feel like when you really want to build your wealth in the very beginning, real estate is such a great way to do that if you have the time to do that. It's so hands-on that it's possible to get like a 50 to 100% return on your money, like somewhat safely in the first year by like buying a place under market, fixing it up. Now you have a whole bunch of equity. You could rent it out. You get the cash flow. But as you start growing, I feel like it starts making less and less sense just from like the time aspect of it.

Yeah. I was actually looking at like a eight unit apartment building. And that just seemed like it would make sense because I could hire someone to do most of the work. And I would just basically be able to collect, you know, paychecks that would, or, you know, collect rent that would pay the mortgage for it. But it just, even that seems messy because you're always trying to make sure that all the units are filled. And it's just, why do that when you can just sit back and watch the stock. Yeah.

The property manager that I have takes care of like 90%. percent of things, but there's still that 10 percent that I have to do in addition to it. And they were sending me emails back and forth today at the toilet. Do you want to repair it or do you want to just get a new one? It's a $100 difference between the table. I'm going to get a new one. And then the HVAC, the ducting is like some issue with that that now needs to be fixed. It's a hassle.

It's a hassle. I don't want to be dealing with it. It's enough to have to deal with five air conditioning units in my main house. Like there's always something that I'm dealing with. And I can't even imagine doing that at multiple properties. And that's why if I had multiple properties, they would be small, Airbnb-sized like one-two-bedroom kind of condo apartment type things in places that I want to visit.

But even then, Airbnb, so much easier. So do you not technically have an income then? Like, how do you have capital to throw into new investments if a lot of your, like, worth is tied up into, like, long-term holds or something like that? Um, my, I use margin. That's, I go into margin when I want to make a speculative investment and pull out of margin and get back to, uh, break even or, you know. So most of just like the, the actual stuff that you own not using margin, that is like all buy and hold. And then the margin is kind of just like speculative fun.

Yeah. Shorter, shorter term trades. It makes sense. I'll buy on margin knowing that this is, this is, I don't want to pay interest on this money for the rest of time. but I'll buy, you know, when I was in GameStop, I didn't have extra cash sitting on the sideline, so I went into margin to buy some GameStop, and that was probably not the best idea. But, yeah, that's, I use my brokerage account as my income and just pull, whenever I need some money, I pull some money out and put it in my checking account.

I've been debating doing that. Kevin has been telling me to do that. That's what he does. He has no cash in his accounts because it's all invested, and he just uses margin as like a piggy bank to go and pay for anything. Yeah. I mean, you can negotiate your rate down. It's, it's kind of worthwhile. The only difference between that and a mortgage is you don't get that tax deduction off of the mortgage interest, which is capped, but you do get, your margin interest is deductible. So on your, on your capital gains. Right. Check with the CPA. Yeah. I'm not an attorney. What would you do? Because I got the,

I got taxes coming up, and I got a big tax bill. I have the cash to pay the tax bill. Kevin, which he's doing is he's basically just getting a larger margin loan against his portfolio to pay his taxes. I'm debating it because it's like on the one hand, it's just peace of mind. Like, okay, it's done. I don't know anything. It is what it is. I'm back to square one again. Or I could borrow it. I think if you had something that you wanted to invest in, you actively were like, I need to have this money to invest in this. I would do what he's doing. He's fully invested. He's fully on margin and when he needs money to pay his tax bill he's going deeper into margin. If you don't have that investment in mind that you want to do, I would totally just pay it

because otherwise you're paying more taxes. You're paying interest and you're not putting that money to work for you in whatever because you don't have an investment line. But assuming I would invest it. Assuming you would invest it, you just have to do the math. Are you going to beat the margin rate and any penalties on delaying on paying your taxes? Are you just going to pay it? Well, I would be paying.

Because that's also, you could just decide not to pay your taxes and pay the penalty. No, no, I don't want to do that. Yeah, I made that mistake last year by doing the, I didn't pay my estimated taxes because I've always... I hate estimated taxes. I know, same. I just figured I'm just going to pay a big lump sum at the end of the year and that'll be fine. But it's just, I mean, in hindsight, it would have been better for me just to pay the estimated. But I liked having more cash on hand, especially when the market was dropping, to be able to buy in even more.

Yeah. So I now make my estimated payments and I do it based on a percentage of what the previous year was, which is such a weird system anyway, because you don't know what your previous year was because you're always filing. I'm sure you are filing an extension and filing at the last. I've never filed an extension. So you probably don't invest in many startup companies. They're notoriously slow at getting K-1s to you and you can't file your taxes until you have all your K-1s. And so I end up having to push my taxes. back and so I don't know what I owe.

And so I'm now making estimated taxes on what I think, an estimate of my estimated tax. The whole thing is... Wait a second. Okay, so I've already paid 100% of what I paid last year in taxes. So technically, then, I could file an extension. Yes. And because I've already paid 100% of the last year, I'd get... I think it's 110%.

There's a safe harbor amount. Sure. Just check on that. But yeah, you pay a certain amount based on what you paid last year. And then you can file an extension. And if you owe more this year, you did last year, you're not going to get penalized. Supposedly.

Not a, not tax price. That changes everything. I'm going to do that. Talk to it. Yeah. I mean, that doesn't increase the risks of, no. Okay.

I mean, I've been audited one time. Oh, that's a fun story. What happened? It was actually the, the small business department sent an auditor to my house because apparently some 1099 miscellaneous for like $100, like for some random little thing.

They filed it twice, and so I was missing $100, but they basically needed every bank account statement, every inflow, outflow. You can imagine that my finances are a little bit complicated, and this poor woman had to sit in my dining room for three days. Poor woman. I had to sit in my dining room,

handing her every document she wanted, for three days and it ended up like there was just all kinds of complications with things that I had depreciated incorrectly and just it was just a mess. Wow. I'd work out in the end. I bet if they were to audit like anyone who makes over a million dollars a year, there's going to be something going on that they can just nitpick at. There's no way you can keep track of that much finance. A lot of it is open to interpretation. So then it's you arguing your interpretation of the tax code, which is not exactly clear. It's not.

You would think, yeah. Actually, the IRS was pretty nice about it. Yes. They show up with a giant binder anytime you have a question, and then they give you a copy of the thing that they're basing what their finding was based on, and then you have, and I'll write to then

question that and take it to court if you want. I just settled and paid them because, again, I'd rather pay a little bit more than have to deal with the mental anguish of going to court with the IRS. So I've heard, like, both horror stories, from audits, but I've also heard that anybody who's like complying with the IRS, they're really polite. I've never heard a story. Be like, hey, they're so rude to me, the IRS. But it seems like

if you're working with them, they're nice. It's just, yeah. I've always tried to be as like on point as I can because I just, I don't want to have to go through it. So I've always just tried to like, what do you call it? Cross your T's and dot your eyes and be like precise and everything. Yeah. And you try, but I mean, you have an auditor looking at your everything you've ever done in the, in the year. And then they, then they opened up the previous year. It was just a whole ordeal. And they're going to find things that they would have classified differently. And some things they found that were in my favor. So it's like, well, we found this that's going to cost you this much more. But we also found this that's going to cost you this much less. So they kind of offset each other.

So are they basically just going and doing your taxes for you at that point? Yeah. I said, If I didn't want to file my taxes, would you come audit me and just do this for me? Because you're clearly way more qualified than me because I don't know what I'm doing. And clearly the CPA had doing my taxes didn't know what they were doing. If you're finding these discrepancies, why are we going through this process? How about you just tell me how much I owe you and I'll just write you a check? Right. I mean, that seems like it would be a way easier system.

Right. I agree with that. That's always been an issue with mine with the IRS. It's like it's so weird how you. You have to come up with how much you owe them. But of course, there's always going to be some error that you could possibly make. And then they're just going to go do exactly what you just did, but correctly. Yeah.

And they supposedly know how much you owe. Why not just tell us? You're doing the math to figure it out. Like when you're auditing, you know, oh, this one's off because we had all these inputs and we are expecting this. Yeah, it really shouldn't be that hard. I would love, what do you think of a flat tax? I would love it. Yeah.

Yeah. I would love just, how about this? How about we just call it a flat? 30%. That's it. Everyone pays 30%. If you make a dollar or you make $100 million, 30%.

It would simplify everything. Same for corporations. And it wouldn't have to be 30%. If you're taxing everyone at that rate and there's no loopholes, there's no... If there's no deductions, if there's no ways for the Uber rich to do a fast one and end up paying 2%, no, everyone pays 30% on their income for the year. But would it be next?

but it couldn't be gross. But it's not going to be 30%. It would end up being like 8%. Once you factor in that you're basing it on everyone's income. Like the gross national product of humans and... So do you think of corporate... So you think we would collect more tax revenue

doing like a 30% flat tax across the board? I think you would be able to collect the same amount. And each individual person would have a way lower rate because you're also doing it for individuals, corporations, uber rich. I would love that. If you say it like that, though, do you mean that also eliminates like property tax, sales tax, hotel tax, like all gas tax? No, you really can't because it goes to different places.

Yeah. You still need to pay for your local schools and hospitals with your property tax. And you, I don't know what California does with all the money they take from you, but not anymore. I don't know. I mean, how Texas doesn't have that and California does, but we have bigger property tax, it's just you're going to have to pay for roads and bridges and hospitals and all. of that and I get it. Pay your fair share. Makes sense. You have a bigger house. You pay more. But I think there would be a way to

simplify everything. I would love that. I think just a 30%. We could come up with what it is here and then just implement that. We should love that. I wonder where parking tickets go because I've paid like 350 bucks in parking tickets and that's like three months. It goes for maintenance on the

scanners that they use to give you a parking ticket. I'm sure it's not even I don't think they make money from parking tickets. It would be impossible to pay some money from parking tickets. I swear. There's no way. I've paid so much money in parking tickets in the past five months. The thing is, they have street sweepers that come through L.A.

And I bet that those street sweepers, they actually make money on that because they give off parking tickets. They give off parking tickets if you park in the street. And every single time I walk up and down the street on like the weird Thursday, first Thursday of the month, like that day. California. Weirdest parking rules. Five to ten cars, every street have parking tickets. And each parking ticket is $73. It is crazy.

They make money cleaning our streets. I guess if the person driving, let's say, gets $120 a day, they're probably collecting $1,000 with the tickets. Maybe net of that. Way more than $1,000. $1,000 on the street. The street sweeping machine has to be maintained. The equipment, the mailing the thing to you,

the then court costs if you fight it. The whole thing, it probably is a break. I would bet that they make a lot of money. I was trying to look into like the financial statements of Santa Monica. You should start a YouTube channel that... That dies into that. I literally was like trying to find the financial statements.

Where is all this income coming from? What are their expenses like? Because I was just wondering, what is their parking ticket income? Right? And how much of a percentage am I of their parking ticket income? I went down that rabbit hole looking for where does the toll road money go? And is it actually all being used to pay for these roads that when they first started making toll roads back in the 60s or something?

The whole premise was you're going to have a... nickel toll to be able to build this road and then we'll take away the toll. But they never did. They just keep raising the rate. So what happens to that money? I couldn't find out. The Santa Monica sales tax is terrible. It's over 10% sales tax. 10%. Yeah. It's nuts. Las Vegas, I think, is 7.2. What was the best investment you've ever made, the best return you've ever gotten? And what is the worst return? The most money you've lost. These are, these are, you have to give me like time to research that. I would say probably Tesla is the best return,

but I still haven't sold it, so I don't know. So what's your unrealized gain? Like $2 million? But what percentage? I don't know, 200%. Okay. Something like that, isish. These are the questions that a lot of the audiences are you trying to check my eyes.

I'm trying to find a thumbnail. I think I got like 1,300%. It was like 1,200% on Tesla. I could look it out. I don't know. That's pretty good. I mean like a thousand percent on Apple. Maybe 400.

I have no idea. It's somewhere between 400 and a thousand. I still have some old, old Microsoft stock that I don't even remember buying that is probably like a 2,000 percent gain. So that. Wow. But that's something that, you know,

I just bought a long time ago and never really looked at it again. And it was never near the top of my account because I, you know, I sort by market value to see what I'm worried about for the day. and there was nothing. That's the way to do it. Just buy something and forget about it. Do you think you'd be better off today

if you just held on to everything you've ever bought or do you think that you were better off selling and actively managing your portfolio? That's a good question. I think actively managing. Because had I just bought, half of those companies went out of business. Like I found that old login on Yahoo that showed,

yeah, this company doesn't exist anymore. I don't know what would happen to those shares. So yeah, and I'm sure I've made terrible trades, but in the end, I've done better than having just set. What's your investing style like? Are you a value investor? Are you like a social arbitrage investor? Social arb. Oh, you are? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

That's kind of what I figured out from scanning your videos a little bit. So it's what it's all. And that, to me, is like the one edge that you have over. an investment banker. They don't know what's going on, you know, in the real world where real people are shopping and seeing trends before they make it onto Wall Street. So some of our big trades that we've talked about on Dumb Money are things that are like trends that we spot before they, you know, caught Wall Street's attention. Do you think those investment bakers have like certain quotas that they have to like check off their lists like regarding net income like debt to income ratio,

long-term debts to like short-term income, stuff like that? Do you think they have to do that so they can't do social arbitrage? Or do you think that they're just like not in that whole scene? I think social arbitrage is probably too hard to explain to the people whose money they're investing so that it would be hard for them to run a fund that does that kind of, you know, on a whim we've decided to buy these kind of shares because we thought we had some edge on the market. That would just be harder to justify in your prospectus. And so it's way easier to say, we track the S&P 500.

We track the, what's a port noise buzz thing? We track the social mention frequency of what people were talking about 30 days ago. So, I mean, they have a system that's easier to explain in a prospectus. And that's how, that's the reason I don't really invest in those funds other than I love the S&P 500 just as a, this is where I'm going to put cash that I don't. that's my bank account is the S&P 500. Really? Yeah. That's my investment.

I'm putting that in there and be like, all right, this is money I'm locking away. And then I have a bank account. I can't imagine dumping money into the S&P and being like, that's my bank account. Do you know what I did with all my retirement accounts? I put them in triple leveraged S&P 500 because I figure long term. Yeah. I mean, that's a terrible investment. I would never tell anyone to do that.

But that's what I did because this is money that I, I'm not planning to ever need. If I need my retirement savings, something has gone wrong in my life. And if I ever hit that point, I'll quickly restructure what's going on in those accounts. But to me, that's like opportunity money that grows tax-free, that if I want to be able to blow it out, what better investment historically over the course of 10, 20 years, what would do better than the S&P? The only thing I can think, I would be a triple leverage to S&P. Why don't you just do that throughout your entire portfolio?

Just 100% triple leveraged S&P, don't touch it. I mean, that is something that I've given a lot of thought to. Like, would that beat me trying to individually choose things like Tesla? I wonder if it would. Why wouldn't you just go and put a million dollars in that and be like, that's my fund, going to leave it, I'm not going to touch it? I had a half million dollars in that when the market started crashing. And that made me really nervous because a triple leverage fund does a triple inverse.

60%. Yeah. And the rule of percentages, once it's gone down, it takes twice as much to go back up. And so that's why for a market crash situation, being in a triple leveraged is, you know, it's death. You can't, you can't recover from it. Yeah. And so that was, I was a little late to pull the rip cord on that and get out of it. But it is since recovered too.

Yeah. I remember, I was looking at Jason Oppenheim's portfolio, and he was invested in triple leveraged oil ETFs. And gosh, I can't imagine how much money that's gone up now. Oh, yeah. I remember looking back at him, I'm like, I can't believe you're buying this. This is crazy. He's like, no, well, fine. I'll do fine. Oil's got to come back. Sure not. He's right. But I was thinking, like, but no, it's going to change the whole, like, people aren't going to travel as much. but he's right. I mean, we're at a time where everything is just going up.

Yes. We're going to hit a point where it isn't like that anymore. And that's when I think it's going to be like a rude awakening for a lot of people who are new to investing where you can't just wait a week because it'll get better. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but that's what I'm worried about longer term. Like, when is that point? When is that? And you're not going to notice it.

It's going to sneak up on you. Yeah. So I was actually telling Jack about this. He's never heard of the lost decade. Yeah. So now Charlie Munger was talking about over the next decade to expect lower returns. We're not going to see what we have been over the next 10 years, which I agree with him. I could see a time where the S&P 500 goes up, goes down, goes up, goes down, and trades within a range of, I don't know, 900 points.

And we're at the same point 10 years from now as we're here today. I don't think that would be impossible. Yeah, I'd never heard of that. What would you do in that situation? Sell cover calls. And you'd probably, yeah. You would make money. You would manage a sideways market as, you know, try to make money going down and then appreciate it going on.

Yeah, it would sell puts, ideally when it's at the lowest and then sell cover calls, ideally, once it's down the highest. You're not going to time it just right, but, you know, hopefully you would be able to outperform zero, which is what it could possibly do for 10 years. So the goal would just be with time decay, utilizing that to slowly just make the premium money. And hopefully my stuff isn't called away from me. And hopefully I'm not forced to buy anything by selling the put. Yeah. That's why I love options. I mean, that would work.

And then you're also buying the dips and you're buying it over time. So it's going to average out. But yeah. What would you do? I don't know. I hope to never see that situation. but I feel like that would be so stressful that I would just want to just not be in the stock market

if it's just going sideways. I'd be done. You can just pull everything out if you wanted to and just sit on your money. I might do that. I don't know. Just the stress every day of having to worry, oh, it's a down day.

What's my strategy today? Oh, it's an up day. Is that what you do now? No, I try not to think about it. We talk on Dumb Money Live. We went from, doing one a week to doing one a day. And that really had me probably making more trades than I should have.

So I'm pulling back and we're only doing three shows a week now, maybe two. Okay. Just because you can't make a good trade every day. It used to be in our whole social arb thesis, you find one really good, high-conviction social-arb trade a year. And you might find two or three medium convictions a year. you can't find one every week. You can't find one every day.

And so it's like weeding through, the Discord community is finding all these amazing ideas and trying to weed through and find ones that you believe in. That's kind of the challenge now. There's so much information, so many opportunities, so many ideas that you can't invest in them all and you don't want to invest in them all, but there's so many good ideas that you kind of want to.

So it just comes down to like having some discipline and waiting for things that are truly, truly high conviction. and then having a little bit of fun with small amounts in the things that are medium and low conviction. What about Bitcoin? I think you just started investing in Bitcoin, didn't you? I've had Bitcoin. I was buying Bitcoin at that all-time high back. When was that Thanksgiving, when everyone was talking about it, I was buying and then just watching and go down.

I was buying Bitcoin. I had a Binance account that had some crazy weird coins in it. I don't know. Basically now I'm all Bitcoin and Ethereum, a 60-40 split. I love Bitcoin. It's going to 100,000. I should probably move more money over into it. I just can't mentally put my money into it.

I don't know. Yeah, sure. I've been doing so far about five grand a week into Bitcoin. When it dropped the other week, I think I may have done like 7,500. But just to balance everything out, Because I believe in it long term. I do too. Yeah.

And so I feel like I have not had the discipline of taking money out of the stock market and putting it into Bitcoin, but I should. It's so easy. I use Coinbase. And it's so simple to just transfer money. It shows up instantly. I think you got to wait like two, three days for it to withdraw the money. It's so easy. It just shows up like instantaneously.

You buy it instantly. It's so much easier than stocks to have to do that. The feast sucks. I'm sure there's a cheaper way of doing it. but it is what it is. It is easy. And I like that it's open on the weekends. And after, I was like, right now, if you want to go and buy it,

I think the stock market should be open 24-7. It should. I don't know why. There's no reason. Other than old-timey stockbrokers didn't want to work 24-7. Right. That doesn't exist anymore. Yeah.

But it should be. But it should be. It should always be going up and down. There's a market open somewhere around the world. Why not have our stocks also be available at all times? I would love that. That's a good question. I don't know.

It could be just too stressful for people. I'm serious, though. Imagine having millions in the market, like, doing some, like, you know, more gambly type investments. I guess, okay, yeah. It does give me the opportunity to sleep, you know. That's true. I didn't think of that if just, like, after, you know, 1 p.m. here, all right,

nothing's going to happen until 6.30 in the morning. Yeah. But does Bitcoin keep you up at night? Like, a Bitcoin 10% drawing, right? Like. No, not, no. I mean, if it dropped 50%. I mean, it just it is what it is.

What is your percentage of your net worth allocated to Bitcoin? 2%. 2%. I need to get to 2%. That's my goal. Yeah. I'm going to do that. When you're watching this, Dave, later, just go do that. The funny thing is I invested one.

Well, a little bit over one. I think I had like total investors like 1.3. That's grown to 2 in two months. I could see at some point this ending up at a million dollars a coin. At some point, maybe like 50 years from now, maybe. I think it's either going to be worthless or like a million bucks. It's one or the other. And that was my investment thesis in GameStop.

Either going to be worthless or I'm going to quadruple my money. So I'm good with being in Bitcoin for the long term. Yeah. And I need to get more into it. How about this? Give us some stock tips before we wrap up. Tell Jack what to invest in. I don't give stock tips.

I don't have. What are you buying that Jack can copy? coinage terms or something like that. Like what's a rule of thumb, stuff like that? Stuff to live by as an investor. Buy low, sell high. I don't have like any, it changes every day. You just have to be listening, looking, finding opportunities,

looking for things that you think you know that Wall Street doesn't know. That's what it's all about. And finding like a correlation to it's a cold and Texas, pipes are freezing, generators are going to be in demand. The electric power grid failed, batteries and Tesla and things like that. It's just making those kind of connections when you have something that you see that maybe other people haven't yet connected to a stock trade. Every time there's a hurricane, the roofing companies go up. That's now predictable. But the first time there was a hurricane and the roofing companies all went up, nobody had thought about that.

I respect your investing philosophy. You know what you're good at and you stick to what you know. Like you don't have a big allocation in Bitcoin. You paid off your house, although maybe it didn't make complete sense. Maybe you should diversify a little bit. You know stocks and you continue to do stocks and you continue to do well. So it's good. It works.

How about this? What stocks do you like? I mean, I'll tell you my biggest holdings for me and my risk tolerance, it's Tesla. and Amazon and Apple. Those are my... But are you buying more of Tesla? I wish I had the conviction to keep buying Tesla every time it goes down, because you see that every time it goes down, it does come back up.

But I just, for me to buy, because I don't have any other income, it means I have to sell something else. And I really like everything that I'm in right now. Couldn't you margin? I could go deeper into margin. I'm kind of at that threshold of there's so many good things that I want to be invested in right now that I'm at the point where I've margined about as much as I'm comfortable with. I'm at maybe 20, 30% margin right now.

And I don't like to go that much deeper. Probably I'm a little too conservative for what I, for the returns that I would like, but it's all a balancing act. Got it. I don't want to be that guy, but you could, theoretically, sell some puts on Tesla. If you wanted to pick a price that you were comfortable to buy it at, and if it didn't hit that price, you could get a little bit of income

to then buy more Tesla shares. I could do that. And I've done that, and I probably should have been doing that when instead of buying the dip, I should have been shorting the puts on the dip. I love the income thing. I got to try that at some point.

Any question you may have. If I can't answer, I would love it. I got to enable it on Schwab. Can you do that online? It's easy. It's just like placing an order. Instead of buy to open, you do sell to open.

It's a drop down. I really, really want you to do options. All right, you know what? I'll pull up my computer. We'll do one now. Okay, yeah. Let's do it. Well, I mean, technically, it's, you know, not during market hours.

Right, but couldn't I just... You could do a market order tomorrow, but I don't know if that's something that you... Well, can't we just do it now to open in the market open? I'm not a huge fan of it. You could put a limit order in. It's very complicated, but I wouldn't do anything like aftermarket or anything like that. I would realistically probably wait. You can do a limit order.

It's not like you're going to lose a ton of money, but just to be a... What are you talking about, like, selling puts? So if you sell a put, you select a price and a date. So say your price, that's called a strike price. Say your strike price for Tesla. What's Tesla right now? 715 or something like that? Seven.

I have no idea. I don't really have any Tesla, so I'm not. No, no, sorry, I meant doing the covered calls. Do you want to do a covered call? So covered call is. when you have the stock in your account and you're willing to sell it for a certain price by a certain day.

How do you do it on Schwab? Do you do this? You may have to unlock. Which is under the strategy. The options? Under strategy where your stock ETF right now, you have to apply for options. Yeah, yeah. You have to...

Five to ten days for processing. You could do it on Robin Hood instantly. Oh, God. You're going to fall in love with it. I promise you that, Graham. It's awesome. It's like... It opens up all these doorways in investing.

It's like you can hedge you. your positions with options. You can leverage your positions with options. You can do so much more with options that you can't do when just buying common stock. So like if I wanted to sell this at market right now, it's 9839. I could just hit sell and sell it for 98. Or I can write a covered call for 98 and then I would be selling at 98, but then I would also be getting this $1.89. So you're going to get an extra $4,000 because you did this instead of just hitting the sell button. And then that's someone, say the stock goes up to, you know, $99. Someone's going to buy that if they have the option to buy it at $98.

If it goes down, say it goes down to $97, they're not going to buy it. And now you have $4,000 that you just get to use to offset your loss because you have the shares at that. And then, you know, they depreciate. Your best case scenarios, it stays at 98. So you don't lose anything. You get to keep the $2. And that's kind of just like, that's the best possible thing. If it goes up, you're losing out on it going above 98, but you're still getting that extra $2.

And it's cool because you don't have to pick $98. You can pick $105. So that's out of the money. That means it's above the, you know, selling a covered call above the market value. So, and obviously premiums would be lower because the chances of it hitting that are lower. People are paying less to be able to buy it at that price. Yeah. But if you wanted to sell it at 105.

Yeah. If you ever hit that, then you would only be getting, and this is not very volatile, you'd only be getting an extra at 19 cents. Yeah, you get $366. You have to pay commission to do this, by the way. Oh, you do? It's not much. $13. They base it on the number of contracts.

But in this case, you're only actually losing money if the stock goes above $105 and, what, 19 cents? Yes. Because you have 19 cents per. Yeah. So if you wanted to sell this at 105, if it ever hit 105, you could get an extra $400 for placing the order this way. But the downside is if it went to 110, you'd be like, I just gave up $5 in exchange for 19 cents. You can do this every week. I don't really do that.

You make $400 bucks every single week until this goes up to 105. But obviously, if it's a slow creep, you could just keep raising that up, 106, 107, my weight, and then continually just make money hedging against your own position of shares. I might experiment with that. Yeah. If you could build a robot that did that for you, it would make it worthwhile. So there's some options that the option chain is just like has an imbalance. and you can find like call writer, like these secret underground chat rooms

or people are like, oh, this one's really out of whack. And that is where you can actually make money if you have the time. And, you know, for an extra $500, you can spend an hour doing that. I used, I did that for fun for a while. And it was, it just got to be too much, you know, too much mental overhead to deal with. It depends on your strategy. But you should definitely, if you, if you have like an extra hour per day to just go dig and try to find those imbalances, in, oh, they're paying too much for these premiums.

And the stock, this is a stock that you can do what it's called like a buy-right where you buy the stock and write the call in the same transaction and you're guaranteed to make money unless it goes to a certain threshold. But there's enough premium built in so that you can get out before it hits that threshold. There's so complicated to me. I know. The thing is, it's so complicated, but so easy. It's a whole spectrum.

It's a whole dark web that you don't want to go anywhere on. It's great. I love it. I want to try doing a few, and we could do them together. Just maybe, like, I'll pick three stocks. I'll sell them so out of the money. And just collect the premium, just try it a few times. See, that's one way to do it.

You're probably not going to find it very worth your time. The way that I love to do it is to pick a stock that's super volatile, or say Wall Street Betts is hyping up a stock like Pallentier or Tesla or anything like that. You know what they're doing. They're buying as many calls as they can on that. That's driving up demand, thus driving up premiums. So you can sell, you know, covered calls on your shares for these exorbitant premiums. I mean, you could get like 20% in a month on some of these stocks sometimes.

20%. That's unbelievable. I don't recommend it. I love it. I recommend it. But if you know what you're doing or if you're very conservative with it. I've told Jack, it's like, what is it, picking up pennies in front of a steamroller. That is exactly what it is.

And Jack's like, no, it's so safe, though. I'm like that. Yeah, but that's if you're writing naked call options. That would be picking up pennies in front of a steamroller. Oh, I think so. I don't know. From my very limited understanding of this, that's my analogy that I've seen in the line. Fair enough.

All right. Well, is there anything else you want to throw in here? No, do we want to talk about the dumb money thing? Yes. So how do we just go right in it? So dumb money, the original channel is about to hit 100,000. By the time this is on, we will have hit 100,000 subscribers. And we've decided to basically give the channel away to the next generation of creators.

We want to basically turn it into like a platform for people who don't have a big audience. And so we're going to take submissions and basically hire three people, put them, give them a show on the dumb money channel. And we're going to not make content there. We're going to keep doing dumb money live. And then make the new, the old dumb money channel into something new. How do you find these people? Well, we're basically kind of auditioning.

So anyone can make a video. Tell us about your show idea. Tell us if you have some great idea or if you've already done a show or you're currently on YouTube, send us a link. And we are going to narrow it down and pick three and give them a show. How are the three of them all going to coordinate on one show? It's not one show. They each get their own show. Oh, I see.

They each post their episodes. Yeah. Think of it like, you know, NBC has a bunch of shows on it. And, or CNBC has like fast money and mad money and other kinds of money. Other kinds of money would be a good name. So basically, yeah, it'll just be. And they'll be a reoccurring show. They'll do two episodes a week.

And, you know, that'll fill up like a whole. Are you worried, though, that the audience is like not going to like one person, but maybe they kind of like another and like the algorithm is all out of whack? I think the algorithm is all out of whack on that channel anyway, because we basically stopped making videos a year ago. Wouldn't it be discouraging to somebody who's like making better videos than the other two? And it's like, well, I just posted a banger, but then like these other two knuckleheads, they, they ruined my algorithm so that by the time I post again, like fewer people are watching.

It depends. Like if YouTube thinks about what you're looking for, you know, the whole thing about the algorithm is they're trying to find what you want to watch, right? And if you have a playlist that has this type of video in one playlist and another type of video in another playlist, doesn't that... I don't know. I feel like Kevin does live and recorded, right? And he's... I mean, people love him. So that's why that works.

But I feel like you don't maybe get as penalized if you have organized your content. I don't know. I think it's like... You're the expert. BuzzFeed, cut, Jubilee. They all have that. But they have a structure. But they have different series.

Like they have like the... I don't know. It will essentially be. three different series on a single channel. And each one will be its own title and its own, like they'll be, I don't know. Concrete did that. They were a great channel and they had such good content,

but they were originally doing Ben Mallow videos and they were doing like other documentaries and stuff. What ended up happening was that the Ben Mallow was so successful and nobody cared about the other stuff. And it hurt the channel to have like a really good Ben Mala video. And then you'd have a documentary that, in my opinion, it was an amazing documentary, it just wasn't that audience. And the audience that wanted Ben did not want the documentary.

And it was discouraging, I think, for them to create this content because nobody wanted. They just wanted more Ben. Well, it's almost like if you think about, I come from the startup world. If you think about an incubator where it's basically putting money into a bunch of different projects. And if one of them takes off, that's great. We want to launch the career of the next great YouTuber. And it doesn't have to continue to live on dumb money.

but if they can find an audience there, they can grow from there. That's fair. So they can eventually go off and do their own thing whenever they want. It's basically, we're trying to incentivize people to do this because we had fun doing it

and we basically were not good at making money doing it. We just did it because we loved it. But if we can have people who are like really gung-ho about making content on YouTube and we can give them the platform and we can give them production assist, and editors and basically pay them a $60,000 a year salary to be able to quit their job. If that's like, I wouldn't say anyone should just jump into YouTube.

But if you've been wanting to do it, but you just haven't been able to because, you know, you just can't afford to. Right. This is, this is that little push. I feel like, part of me it just feels like if you're going to do it on your own, you would. And there are so many weird learning curves that like, if you were to throw me into 100,000, I would just drown because you're throwing me in a body of water that's just too deep for me to swim. But starting out your own channel and like growing that and figuring out like, oh, this works,

this doesn't work and learning by the time you hit 100,000, then you're like you're all prepared. Like you've been through it. Well, maybe we can help mentor them along the way. Maybe you could help mentor them. I will help judge. How's that? That would be great. I'll help judge.

Yeah. So we basically have set up an email address. you can send a link to a YouTube video to get a show at dumbmoney. I'll put it in the description. And that's how we're basically taking submissions. Cool. Link down below in the description. So, cool.

Anything else? Thanks so much for coming on. I mean, we met. It was really nice to meet you. And that was a great conversation. I loved it. We were all over the map on this one. Good luck editing.

Guys, let us know what you think of like this sort of style. This is one of the few. videos where we didn't go in with the structure and we just figured, well, we're just going to let it flow and have a conversation. I'm sure some people like it. Some people don't. But let us know what you think. If you think we should continue more of just like the free flow conversations, happy to do

that. If not, we'll go back to a more structured approach. I think it's fair. I think it's fair. But regardless, you should smash one of the buttons. There's a thumb up or a thumb down. Just a thumbs up button. Whoa.

As far as we're concerned, that other thumb button doesn't even exist. Just register the fact that you heard us say this by hitting the thumbs up. Yes. And then leave a comment telling us what you think. Yes. Sounds great. Also, don't forget to subscribe. It's totally free to do.

And you get a brand new video from us every single Sunday. If you hit the notification bell, you could be the first one to comment on the video. And Jack responds to like almost all of the comments, especially in the first like an hour or two. So make sure you do that. Thank you, guys. so much for watching. We have all of the links down below in the description. You can get two free stocks, too. Worth up to $1,850.

And that's it. Thank you. Anything else? That's it? Cool. Thanks so much. We're doing. We'll see you guys. We'll see you next time. If I did slow down on the main channel, I would double down on the podcast. Really? What about the second channel? There's only so much if you could react to. The podcast, I think, is unique. So we are in the 45th ever, right?

I have no idea We have no idea They're completely unprepared for this Yeah we've mismatched a few episodes Like we filmed some way ahead of time That we're now posting So welcome to the 44th ever episode Of the iced coffee hour

My name is Dave, if you want to say Dave from Dumb Money And so far the podcast is made 48,379 How's this? That's perfect, yeah Go off. All right Go for it Your name is Graham.

Okay. No.