The Iced Coffee Hour - Got Punched In The Face By A TikToker | Minx, Nate O'Brien, Silicon Valley Girl, AskSebby

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

Graham and Jack just turned a party into a podcast! JustaMinx is a popular twitch streamers with over 2 million followers, Nate O'Brien is a minimalist entrepreneur who breaks down the logistics of running several million dollar business's all from his laptop in a van. You definitely don't wanna miss today's episode! Check out Storyblocks and sign up for the Unlimited All Access Plan: Storyblocks.com/ICH Check out the Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/icedcoffeehour  Add us on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan https://www.instagram.com/alex_nava_photography Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] GET YOUR FREE STOCK WORTH UP TO $1000 ON PUBLIC & SEE MY STOCK TRADES - USE CODE GRAHAM: http://www.public.com/graham  MY NEW COFFEE IS NOW FOR SALE: http://www.bankrollcoffee.com/ The Equipment used: https://tinyurl.com/y78py5g2 Audio Equipment Used In Podcast: Rode NT1, Rodecaster Pro The YouTube Creator Academy:   Learn EXACTLY how to get your first 1000 subscribers on YouTube, rank videos on the front page of searches, grow your following, and turn that into another income source: https://bit.ly/2STxofv $100 OFF WITH CODE 100OFF  For Podcast Inquiries, please contact [e-mail] *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So we had a really cool event hosted by this company called Carrot. They provide these metal credit cards to creators and influencers. They invited us to this event. And there are tons of super cool people here. And we decided we tried something different for this episode. We're going to have a bunch of people swing by. Just random really cool influencers or business people like Nate O'Brien, Ask Seby, a bunch of people. And they're all just going to have little segments on here talking about some really fascinating tidbits of information.

Yeah. Now, the fun part about this is that we're filming this at the very end, and I have to say these 20 minutes that we have with each person is, in my opinion. But it's so good because we have to be so fast-paced. Sometimes I think this is more interesting than like an hour-long episode. So you guys are really going to enjoy it as soon as you subscribe. Yeah. Subscribe. You just got it.

Check out the Patreon, too. Oh, yeah, we got the Patreon. Check out many things, guys. Okay. They're all going to be linked down below. We're going to have tons of really cool guests on. Thank you so much, Karat, for throwing this event. and inviting us.

And let's get on with the episode. So coming on right now, we have Mink. She is a massive Twitch streamer, and she also participated in Creator Clash. She dominated the event, and she's incredibly interesting. So we're going to have her on right now. There we go.

Just bite it. That's perfect. It tastes like an alimonymy name. Hello? No, it's the other way. It's where it says Audio Technica. Hello? Yeah, that was good.

Hello? That's good. Okay. Welcome back to the ice coffee hour. My name is my name. minx and I'm here with my two guests. Wow. Cool.

We're the guests. It's just fantastic. Welcome to my podcast. We're not streaming today. I'm happy to have you here. So you're a streamer. I am. How did you get started in that?

I liked games. I liked video games. I used to play Crash Bandicoot as a gate on the PS2. Bit of Hercules sometimes. And then as a little side hobby, I started Twitch. And for seven

years, was a 10 viewer Andy with absolutely nothing. playing video games, dead by daylight, call a Dewee, everything. And then I went on a dating show called Loverhost and it changed everything. So you did it for how long? I started, maybe I should even pull out my old YouTube videos. I started as a kid. I always wanted to be in content creation, but, you know, especially when you're from Ireland,

you don't expect to succeed. It's one and a million chance for anyone regardless, but a loud Irish girl. from Ireland making it here in LA made it though look at me mom I'm on a podcast right now sorry got sidetrack with grandma jack nonetheless I'm ADHD could you repeat the question

what was the question oh how did you get started and you said you were streaming for seven to ten people for years and then you were on a dating show yeah so I just I would play games like dead by daylight college U.E on my own with my friends when I was younger

and then a guy called Austin Austin show he found a clip of me spilling ketchup on my shirt and instead of changing it I just turned the shirt

backwards and was like well it's clean now and he thought that was funny and he invited me to his show lover host which is you go on it's not Discord

it's not Skype there's another one there's one of those things Stream Yard No it's like Zoom I think It was before, yeah, Zoom, Zoom.

Okay. There was one before that. That's to say it's Zoom. Whereby? Yeah. Whereby? That was it. Sure.

And then you just go on there and he'd have a guy and have 20 women fight over that guy. And then it was always a big streamer. So like, I guess I was just loud and crude and that blew me up. What did you say? Like, what clip went viral with that? You must have said something. I would just call the other, because I was, I'm not mean to women. But they were my enemy at the time, because I was,

fine for the guys love and I guess the C word here isn't really popular so I would continuously call them that if they would get ahead of me and I'd get mad and throw my chair around and then a lot of people were like oh she's a bit insane in she let's just click on her and watch her more and then I went from 10 viewer to 200 viewer Andy and then from that I had more opportunities people reached out to me and had me on their shows too and it just kept growing. But if you're asking about my biggest clip, it would be the dreaded white claw clip. What is the dreaded white claw clip? I was, I'm not going to call it cosplaying. I'll say dressing up because I looked not unlike Hanata from Naruto, but I was dressed up as her and I had a little shirk in and

I was just flipping it around. It was plastic by the way. So I didn't expect it to actually hit the white claw. I stopped the white claw, sprayed me in the eye, I got blinded, I screamed and ran off and that got like 2.4 million views just from that clip and this was when I was still smaller like 200 viewers and then it just kept going from there so you found that by like kind of acting out or doing these obscene things that you got viewers and you're able to catapult that then to twitch yep and then it just kept going and I kept being more cycle and then I moved to LA six months ago and I was like it's going to be temporary

but the opportunity's here but you're all like no offense to Americans love you guys love you guys you're a bit not funny Americans aren't funny are we trying to be funny though I don't think we're you just don't get Irish humor

I said on a fucking train going to Disneyland and no woman looked at me as if I was like the devil and I was like ooh okay I think that's just a little bit more normalized like over in like that place Europe to be fair to the Irish That place. Geography-wise, Europe-ish, you know, that's common.

No, the Irish are a bit off their head. It's not really a word that you say here. Like in the U.S., a bit of a stigmatized word. It's not the best. It's just like really, really abrasive or something? I think so. It's shocking for people to hear. So I hear that.

They don't know how to react. It kind of like stuns them a little bit. It's a lady's part, but we can say, like, you dick. And no one blinks an eye at that. It is kind of interesting how we just pick and choose what words are like the worst ones and what are it. It really is. Let's get back to your successor.

Okay, would you say that the person that you acted on camera, was that strategic in order to get these viral moments to help catapult your career to success? Or is that like actually kind of an accurate reflection of who you are on a daily basis? And it just so happens that like people really like that. I would say a mix of both because at the time I was working a full-time job as a receptionist. And then I'd like to just have fun, but this sounds sad. I didn't have many friends in Ireland. I was an introvert back then.

Surprise, look at me now on a podcast. But I was an introvert, so I would try to show my fun, crazy side to the internet and do that. So yeah, it's definitely a part of me. And ever since I moved to L.A., I realized it's a bigger part of me than I thought. Because I've not been as introverted since. But, no, it's probably just mental illness, to be honest. Like, I don't think, or the Irish. It's either the Irish in me or the mental illness in me.

Could be both, though. Yeah. Could be both. Probably on the good side. I succeeded a tiny bit. Not yet. No, you've succeeded a lot. A lot, actually.

Can you talk about finances at all? Are you comfortable talking about that? Oh, I thought you were going to ask me, like, advice on finance. I was like, man, I'm really dumb. We can talk about that, too. Yeah, yeah, we could go over that. But I'm curious, like, from your perspective in terms of, like, your income and how that's, shifted. So it

went from you know I was working 50 hours a week as a receptionist for a more company by the way would give out headstones. Tough job actually because you'd come in and they'd just be sobbing to it because they're buying a headstone for someone that's dying or dead and I'd be like

that would be $400 plus tax Yeah yeah no no no it starts at 2,600 2,600 That was for the limestone one and then if you want just go to granite and there's different colors and I'd just be like it's a lot of money for you, I know, and I know

you just lost someone, but my boss will kill me if I don't sell you the best headstone out here. My boss was a bit of a like, he was like no, just show them and I'm like, they're here crying about their lost ones. That job was and it was funny because it wasn't funny. We also sold counter stops because it was like a

countertops. It was a granite company. So when someone would come in, I wouldn't know if they were going to come in and be sobbing for a headstone or a new family excited to get their first countertop in their new house. So I'd see someone and be like, hold the face like this, hold it. But no, that job was paying me 1,500 to 2,000 months, depending on my hours. The hours started at 40. And then I realized when I started, which happened, and I remember getting my first paycheck, and it was like, well, not my first one, but when I started growing.

And it was 3.5K and I was like, I can just act the idiot online instead of sitting at this headstone company for 40 hours a week and make more money. And then my dad was the most supportive one in that. My mom was always, because I went to college to be a special needs assistant for three years. So the headstone company was like just a stepping stone. And then I was like, I don't want to do prison officer or special needs assisting when I can just like be myself and be a weirdo and somehow get paid more. Somehow get paid more.

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How is that evolved? Can you share? How much? Yeah, so I, I, I, right now, like my most recent paycheck on Twitch was 8.6K. But the issue with that is, because the Brits took half of the Irish land. I get taxed 60% on everything. So even no matter, even though I'm making a lot of money at the end because Ireland doesn't have a treaty with America like UK does the top half northern Ireland does so I'll pay Twitch's tax I'll pay Irish tax and I'll pay LA tax and it all bundles off where it tolls to 60% so I do make good money but more than half of it gets taken do you find that demotivating though like why am I doing all this work when I get to keep 40% it It is when the tax time comes around and I see my friends paying way less.

But it's also like I still have this insane opportunity. Like even with the amount of tax I pay, it's better than what I was doing in Ireland. But it's just a bit annoying. Now, what about other opportunities, sponsorships, endorsements? Are you doing those? Yeah. So my agent Daniel, he has brought up. I used to work.

Oh, no, I won't say names because it'll make them look bad. But I used to work with three different sponsor companies, and they'd bring stuff to me in a Discord channel. And my sponsor, when I got sponsored, it'd be around to 3K per sponsor. And then when I was at my peak and blowing up, I remember my biggest one was saying. And I was like, oh, my God, thank you, Pram video. Shout out to you, baby. But then I got canceled. And it dropped down to I would be.

lucky if I got 1K for a sponsor. What do you mean you got canceled? I'm out of the loop. Are you able to talk about this? Yeah, no, I can talk about it. So in Ireland, it's different there. So I said, I didn't realize that the L word was a slur for lesbian. I didn't realize that was a slur at the time.

And I, because I have very gay friends in Ireland that would say it normally. And then I said it on stream And this was when I was blowing up with the Minecraft community And they couldn't be a bit finicky with And they Almost kind of like kept saying it in chat They're like, you can't say that And I was drunk at the time

I was like, I can't say The else slur? I'm like, but it's for a lesbian And they were like, no, but that's a slur towards lesbians. And I'm like, I'm more gay than I am straight. I'm like, I didn't even realize this. I didn't mean it like that.

But they kept taking that clip of contacts and they would post all over TikTok saying that I was just kind of degrading. And then that was the start of it. And then they dug up tweets from 2015 when I was a teen where I was like, I prefer Asians over white boys. And they said I was fetish. I can't say the word. Fetish. Fetishizing. Yeah.

You can't say it all. Fetishizing. And then. That just blew up more on TikTok and they kept going. And then even if you look at my TikTok comments now, like if I post something, it'll be like, oh, isn't this the homophobic? And I'm like, bro, I'm gay. I was a closeted fucking gay for years because Ireland's still moving on. But that just brought my sponsors down because any time my name would be mentioned, it was a bad thing about it.

Was this recent? No, this was like last year, but it still comes to this day. And then that's why I was saying back to the sponsors, the three companies I worked with just kind of stopped bringing me stuff to wait for it to blow over. And then luckily, my current agent, when I came out here, Miko hooked me up with him. And he was like, that's not why your price went down. It's because you were working with three different people, and they were giving out different people. and they were giving out different prices.

But the whole time I thought it was because I was like, oh, I'm a bad person. But he was like, no, it's because three different. And then he brought my price and now my recent sponsor was A for a Pac-Man thing, which when I thought that was the end of me is a really good thing to get back off there. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BedMGMGM Casino and check out our newest exclusive. The price is right fortune pick. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show. Only at BetMGM.

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could just be misconstrued as like oh that's your intention you're trying to hurt these people or whatever but I don't know I mean especially you just you said that you're a lesbian I am like mostly I'm pansexual prefer women but if I'm a guy that has the same

it's personality for me but I prefer women it's a weird thing I'm scared to even say my sexuality because I never wanted to label myself I said I don't want to label and then at the time they were like no if you like everybody you're pan your pan and I'm like okay I'm pansexual then and then one day I was like I think I prefer women and they're like that

means you're not pan because you're open to everyone and I'm like at the time you were you're the one that put the label I was just like I like I like it's a weird thing so the internet can be scary at times especially because you know you're figuring out stuff on your own you're changing and then someone will come or similar back to I don't know if you guys played Xbox I play PS3 back in those days the shit that was said on the line

it just it just it's I don't like when they dig up stuff from the past and they don't let people change it's kind of same with Jenna Marbles the stuff like that where she apologized but they won't let it go but then

they missed her when she was gone it's like yeah The internet. But I will say the one thing I really admire about you is how competitive you are. And just how resilient you are, no matter what happens, you keep coming back. And your fight, I think was a great example of that at the boxing ring. I was shocked between you and Yodling Haley.

That was, in my opinion, the most gut-wrenching fight for me to watch as well. I think that was, that takes the entire thing for the entire boxing match, was watching you two. Yeah, 100%. I was like, I couldn't, because I couldn't do that. like straight up. If you put me in that situation, I'd be out so fast. I was so impressed by her because so I don't remember

we would have like group training things. People would meet up. Haley was always very hidden to the point my coach would be like, she's not taking it serious. And then at the end he was like, no, I met her coach. And she's taking this very serious. She gave up vaping.

And I was like, I'm scared. I'm scared. But I did not expect her to, because I had contacts in and in the first round she knocks out one of my contacts and I remember being half-blind and I'm like, oh my God! I thought when I was going to fight a TikToker

it was going to be over in one throw. No, she was, she was, everyone was saying that she wasn't like hitting me, but she was. It was like, I was days. Like I, neither of us really remember the fight and she just kept going and kept going and then the second, no, the third round

she knocked out my other. contact. So it was just a blurry vision. And at that time, I thought she was going to call me because between like not being able to see and every time she'd come back, there's one clip of her where she's bleeding down the nose and she's like, and I was like, if I'd seen that, I would, people didn't see it with my coach. I was saying to him that I think I need to tap out. I couldn't breathe. I was using it. I was like, I can't breathe. And he's like, you've got this, you got. And I'm like, oh my God, my dad's watching. And every time I went back up and then even when I

the fourth round when I won you can actually see me in the video not realizing I won. I was so dazed I was so out of it that when I heard that bell I thought it was about to go to the next round and I sat down they gave me water and my coach is like you did it and I was

like I won I won and everyone in the clip was like she walked off so confident I was I thought you did I was no I was just like keep going keep going and then I went up back to the room and hurled everywhere in the toilet. Really? Yeah, when they brought me back.

Like, even on the winning scene, I was like trying to be funny, but I was like, oh my God, just let me back in the room. I'm going to pass out. How did you feel the next day? Amazing. Really? No, I did feel amazing. At the time I was like, when I felt that pain from the hits and, like, they're like,

oh my God, what happened? I was like, never again. And then, no, it wasn't even the next day. It was after it hurled, and I stood up. and I was like, that was the best experience of my life. What did you like about it? I just like boxing because it's a place where you can be feral. You can be feral, and they're not going to, but it's a safe way that the refs will stop it when they're worried,

but you don't have to worry about holding back and you don't have to worry about your opponent. Like if you get in a bar fight, bouncer's going to take you away straight away. But in the ring you can just boo, boo, boo, and it's the energy, it's the, Fitness. Gained a lot of weight since that fight. I haven't worked out in two months, but I get back into it soon. But at that time, it was just, it's, boxing is. Yeah.

Are you going to continue doing the boxing training? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It was, I don't know why, because I, like, look back and I'm like, oh, I almost lost, but it was still one of the most thrilling things I've ever experienced in my life. Do you think you would do it again? Absolutely.

So if Ian comes back, you says, Creator Clash 2, UN? You'd say yes? Absolutely. Really? Absolutely. Is there anybody that you would want to fight in particular? So, I don't know how much I can say, but they already have been locking at someone for me. And she terrifies me.

Really? She terrifies me. And it was funny because we went to Spotify, closed down Disney recently. And I walked into her and I was like, hey, she's so nice. She's the sweetest girl ever. but she scares me. With the, like Haley, I didn't know much about her. I was like, TikTok or easy.

But the fact that I almost lost that, and I'm already scared of this one, and I'm like, maybe I, maybe we should just, because a lot of people wanted to get into creator clash. They wanted to go into it after, you know, how big it was last time.

And Ina and Nisa has to choose from so many content creators. So no one's comfort. except for two matches. They confirmed mine straight away. And I was like, I don't mind giving up my place. I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, and they're like, no, no, no, we're excited for this.

And I'm like, you have a huge advantage. So I was reading on Reddit. And everyone who was like a, you know, semi-pro or, you know, amateur fighter was saying the first fight like that is the most difficult because you go in and you're not prepared. But doing it again, you know, it's like, okay, I know I'm going to be out of breath. I know what it's going to feel like with all the, you know, the adrenaline going on. I know what the crap. So you have an advantage that nobody else would have because, like, you've been through it before.

And you also see just how hard you would need to train. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't. It's true what they say. Until you're in the ring, you don't understand. Yeah. Because, like, you train so much before your fight. Yeah.

I train so much. But then when you get in it, even sparring is not the same. No. You get a hit and you're like, huh, you're punching me. Yeah. You're punching me. And I think my issue was just I didn't train cardio enough. I couldn't keep my hands up.

Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to say? We have three minutes, two minutes. I got a quick question if we could ask it before. I've noticed people that do Twitch have uniquely dedicated, like, fans. And I want to know your take on it. Why do YouTubers? There could be a YouTube channel with, like, 5 million subscribers,

but their Instagram could have, like, 20,000 followers, and then their engagement could be, like, you know, 40 likes or 100 likes a post. But for some reason, it is unique within the Twitch community, where those creators, they can have, you know, like a million followers on Instagram, but their Twitch has, you know, I don't know, two, three million followers. How are the conversion so good for fans on Twitch? I think it's the fact that it's real time. It's talking.

Like a YouTube video, I personally prefer YouTube because you can sit there, but when you're at career, you're seeing them do it live. There's no editing. There's no cutting. Like, because I watched a lot of Twitch people before I blew off, but it just was more engaging. I can, like, type to them. they'll see my message, I'll see their reaction live,

whether YouTube you see it after, and they might like the comment, but it's, for me it was like, oh my God, I'm not to be parosocial, I'm seeing this person like react to this thing, and when Twitch blows that up, and then you can just be like, hey, follow my answer right now, and then, you know, you can put that in a YouTube video,

but then when chat responds, and they're like, no thanks, and it's like, do it, do it, like, it's an easier way to engage, It's And Twitch clips I mean you know Twitch has been Going insane lately But now I think YouTube might be making

The comeback because they're gaming right They're taking a lot of the biggest creators Yeah A lot Like Tim the Tatman Myth Lily Peachu YouTube if they get their

Emotes and check like their BTTV Their chat I think they could outroll Twitch at this point I agree They could conquer Twitch and maybe Spotify for podcasts. So that's where I think they have to head though, because there's so much competition. They're not going to compete as well with TikTok.

So what's left? Podcasts and Twitch. TikTok is insane. It's too addicting. It is, but it's also like the amount of opportunities it's given like, you know, a little NASP blow off from that. You know of music creators that grow from TikTok. And TikTok creators too, though, because you're not talking with them one-on-one.

It doesn't feel like you're having a relationship with them. But the relationship between followers on TikTok and the TikTok creator is also like Twitch. It's like it's so much more than just like a YouTube and a subscriber. And then it's easier to go viral because it's a shorter thing and it goes up. And that's why I love like if anyone wants to get into music that I think TikTok right now is the best place to grow. You put one song on there. It's catchy. People will reuse it.

More people will hear it. And then it's so I even though TikTok is going to cringe, I think it's one of the best platforms for smaller creators to grow. Like Twitch, like I said, I streamed seven years. YouTube, I tried since I was a kid. TikTok, one viral thing can set you off into... Famousness? Yeah. Famousness?

Cool. Is that a word? Yeah. It may as well be. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. We got to go up at the carrot thing right now. So thank you guys, and we'll be right back.

Thanks for having me. So now we're going to be having on Marina, Silicon Valley Girl, who by the way, was one of the first people that we've ever. had on the podcast back when Jack was still in college. Yep. Sounds weird. Yeah. Anyway, we're going to have her on because lately she has been going completely viral on

TikTok. She has a huge YouTube channel. And we're going to be getting some updates on her in terms of her business. And what else, Jack? And her baby. She had two babies. She did. Thank you so much for coming back on because you were one of our first guests ever on

the ice coffee hour. Oh, was the first? One of them. I think it was number 10. Maybe. The episode number 10, so you would have been guests like number five or something like that. That's pretty, that's pretty cool. Those are the really early days, though, before we did like any crazy thumbnails or anything like that. Like you were there. It's 2020. Yeah. Yeah. The kitchen did.

It was a dining room table. That's crazy. So a lot has changed. You've been deciding whether to leave college. Yeah. That was what that was the time. Did we talk about that that episode? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like ages ago. Yeah. That's, I hardly remember college. Oh my gosh. Wow. That's nuts. We were still doing this before he out of college. I remember that used to be the talk. It used to be college. Then it went on to like girlfriend stuff and now it's like outsourcing. That is so funny. All right. Yeah. So do you regret not finishing college? Uh yeah man I wish I quit all this work. I went straight to college. I was actually advocating for finishing. Were you really? Yeah because I'm pro education. Let's talk about that a little bit more. Why are you pro education? First of all,

you run an education business, right? Can you explain to us what exactly this education business is. So it initially started as a study abroad booking platform. So you could book a trip to Spain to learn Spanish or trip to the U.S. to learn English. But during COVID, we lost 90% of our revenue. So we had to pivoted to an online learning platform. So we basically work with creators in educational space and they create product for us and we distribute it. How many languages do you speak? A Russian, English, German, and a little Italian. Fluently? Well, I studied mathematics in German, but it was in 2010 when I studied in Germany. So I think I won't be able to use it, like on a daily basis now. But English and Russian, Russian is my native and English. Why did you

decide to learn so many languages? Well, when you don't speak English, English is the number one language you have to learn because it opens all the doors. I wouldn't be here if I didn't learn English. German, I was like my dream was always to study abroad and going to the U.S. or UK, you can't really afford it as a Russian family. And Germany had free education And I was like, let's learn German And I really fell in love with the country And like with the products that Germany creates for the world

So this is why I learned German And Italian, I just had Italian friends And there were sisters And they would always chat to each other in Italian And I was fascinated by the way it sounded So I decided to learn a little bit of that You speak any other languages, grandma? I took four years of Spanish and one year of Latin

How good are you at both? Terrible. Really? Yeah. Really bad. don't remember a single thing. Really? Nothing.

Hello, how's das? Let's see. Oh, wow. Four years. Yeah, four years. Holy cow. I can use it. I regret because definitely I think Spanish would be such a fantastic language to learn, but...

Would you do videos in Spanish, though? No. I think it's good to understand and be able to speak, but I don't know. When I was in high school, I had very, just, I was very narrow focused, and it was either I'm playing the drive. ROMs are I'm working and if it wasn't either of those two I had no interest in it so I didn't pay attention yeah I was the kid you know what I used to do there was some sort of like he she they them like those sort of differentiations and I'd write them I think on my on my hand before going

in class so I could if I had taken a test sheet yeah you would cheat that was the only way I think I passed did you ever get in trouble for cheating um I think once I got caught with having notes and the teacher took the notes and told me that if I got caught again, that, you know, he would flunk me from that. I'm guessing you continued cheating. I just didn't get caught. Okay. He said if I got caught again, but didn't say that I couldn't continue.

I don't remember what I did. I have a feeling that you would be like an exemplary student for some reason. Straight A student. You were straight A's. Where'd you go to college? St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg. And then from there.

And Dresden University in Germany for like a semester. But then I got accepted to Johns Hopkins. full rights scholarship for their master's program and University of Florida MBA full rights scholarship but then we could also we accepted investment from 500 startups and we decided that I would focus on the business instead of doing my MBA. How has your income shifted over these last two years from going in person to online how have you evolved as well we've lost in gross revenues we lost a lot but then we're making more on selling online products because if you're selling an online

offline product, you have partners as well. But we're still getting to pre-pendemic revenues. Really? Yeah. Why do you think that is? Because I would feel like for an online business that there would be a lot of demand from people who have the time, let's just say, during the pandemic, to learn another language. Yeah, I think it's the average check. The average check before was like $2,000 to $3,000. Wow. And we have thousands of people traveling. We were like number one for a lot of schools all over the world. And now, like, we have the same audience, but the average check is like, $150. So it's different.

Got it. Now, I have to say, though, the one thing you have been doing really well is the what I spend or a day in the life, a mom in San Francisco, let's just say. Those videos are so much fun to watch. The short videos? Yeah, I keep getting them recommended. Like, you go into the grocery store and, like, putting items in your basket and comparing the cost.

It's crazy how they're blowing up. Like, I'm even not ready for that right now. When you're posting a video, I'm used to, like, 100K views. Yeah. But if you get, like, 2 million views overnight and, like, all the different people who watch your videos, because I'm targeting, you know, young entrepreneurs or people who would want to start a business. And now, like, millions of people are watching them. So it's new. It's interesting. How did you come up with that idea?

I started researching the algorithm on TikTok, and somebody told me that you actually need to post yourself. So I had my assistant in Ukraine who was helping me with posting. So we saw most of the audience coming from Asia and, like, Eastern Europe. And then I thought, what if I post with my American SIM card? What would change? And so because it was me creating con and I was like, let's create something, you know, that I wanted to create. So I created a video about having a baby in California and how much it cost. And I just posted it with my SIM card and it blew up like in a day or maybe like in a week. I think it was 7 million views and I got featured in Mashable Busfeed. And I was like, oh my God.

So it was the SIM card and this new format that I thought I would do. So yeah, crazy. Wow. How are you continuing that momentum? So you see, like, when we're talking about those short videos, the price is the shock factor. And I think this is why people are watching until the very end. And then they hear the price. Like I went to this dentist and they gave me an estimate to like fix my teeth and was like $2,000.

And people like, what's going on here? Like I could continue doing that and like going to Air One and like showing how much it costs. So, okay. I did a, yeah. I'm a little ignorant, I guess, on this. These haven't showed up in my feed. The exact bit. So you go to these places.

Recommended Jack. You go to these places, you're pulling a bunch of different items off the shelf, and at the end you show the total cost of it all. Yeah. And it's just blowing up. And people freak out. It was the short as a TikTok? It was a short video.

Well, I guess short on TikTok. It's like 60 seconds on TikTok. Yeah. The big one, though, I remember seeing the cost of having a baby. How much was that? 2,300, something like that, after insurance. Of going to the hospital and, like, giving birth. Yeah, and, like, giving birth.

Like, doctors were not even there when I had my baby. Because I had her so fast. They walked in. I was already with the baby. Who delivered it? So there was just a lady who was watching me. I was like, the baby's going to. She was like, okay.

How painful is that? Well, the first time was more painful, but the second time is like, your buddy just gets used to it. Is it the, was the first time? I'm curious too, actually. Okay, so it was the first time that you gave birth? Was that the most painful thing you've ever experienced? Because I've heard on many accounts.

That giving birth is like the most painful thing. No. I think like, no, because I had a couple of surgeries and like recovering after surgeries is a lot more painful because I think this is a natural process. And your body releases so many hormones. I don't know. It's the first time you're talking about having birth on this podcast. It is. But like your body releases hormones.

We were meant to have babies, you know, just doing our daily stuff. Like we would hide for several hours, have the baby and then go back to our lives. And because you're, you know, I've never tried drugs, but yeah. You didn't, you weren't drugged up when you. I never tried, yeah. And when you're having a baby, you're like, you love everyone. I saw babies and I started crying because I was like, I'm going to have another baby right now. So it's just the hormones, it's just crazy.

You're in the outer space. So you didn't have any sort of epidural or? No. And that wasn't as painful as the, so what was the surgery that you had that was that painful? I had a, what is it called? So they had to cut out something from my stomach, but they had three holes, and then I couldn't walk after it for days. So that was really painful. But having a baby was natural.

Yeah. You don't hear of many births without pain. You know, I was born without any pain medications. You were born. Yeah. Yeah, so my mom, when she had my half-sister, she, I don't know, she had the epidural or whatever was given, but because I was going to be her last that she wanted to have a natural experience.

And so I've heard it's better because apparently I think the epidural does something to the child when it comes out. Like there's some after effects that maybe they come out. That makes sense. Numb or something. I think there's something like that. I'm not an expert by any means. They're probably butchering not really bad.

But no, yeah, I wanted this natural experience. So I worked with Dulas who were helping me concentrate and Dima was part of my husband. He was helping me a lot, so it was truly magical. And how has having a child, like, affected, has it affected your business at all, like your business philosophy, or philosophies in life in general? Are they good for business? This is what's Jack's asking.

I don't think, unless you're trying to build, like, a family blog. But in general. That's how we triple views there. Yeah. It's hard to focus, because sometimes you have a plan, like, I'm going to have a plan. I'm going to film every day of the week, and then your child gets sick, and that's it. Your plans are ruined. You stay with your kid.

So, yeah, it's different now. I can't really plan ahead. Would you ever consider getting a nanny? We have a nanny. You have a nanny. The problem is, like, the kid needs you as a parent. The nanny helps with daily things, but it's so when the kid is sick, it's you who they need. Got it.

What was the most unexpected thing for you being a parent? Hmm. Interesting. How dependent we're going to be on the nanny. Really? We won't really be able to travel. Like, for example, we went to Europe a year ago when the kids were really small. We wouldn't be able to do it without a nanny. What do they do exactly?

Nanny. Yeah, that's such a help. Sometimes she sleeps with them so I can get the full night rest. Because when you have a small kid, they would wake up several times in night and you just don't get enough sleep. That's number one thing. I think Graham wants to have a child at some point, you know? At some point, yeah. And he's just trying to get a feeling.

Feel it out. Yeah, I'm not ready by any means. Like, I could go probably another 10 years and feeling, all right, maybe, maybe now. I don't know. It's a big commitment to, you know, I know it's at some point, but I feel like right now I'd be too selfish. Like, I want to be too focused on this, anything that takes time away, I wouldn't be as receptive. I don't think I'd be a good parent right now. One thing Alex Hormosey said when we had him on our podcast is that it would be hard

for him to have a child and be okay with his child not being the exact person he wants him to be. He wants the child to be. What do you think about that being a parent yourself? But you can control that. Right, but he says he would just have a hard time with that. Accepting that. Accepting that. Yeah, and he adds that to the risk of having a child.

Like, what if I don't like my child? Oh, you would love your child. Regardless. Of course. What if they don't like you? Maybe that's how they phrased it. No, this is not how we built. The kids are built to love their child.

parents and do anything that their parents do. But let's say he has an expectation of his child and his child's, I don't want to do that. I'm doing my thing. And it happens to be crime or maybe, you know, drugs. Okay, we're talking about older kids. Yeah. I'm talking like, you know, 20s, 30s. They just grow, you know, in a different direction that's not as intended. It's maybe not the best for the society. Yeah, I think my approach to this, I want them to be happy and then want them to be good citizens. So I have 18 years to teach them all I can And then after that, it's really up to them So you can change their personality

After 18, you think people are pretty set in Yeah That's interesting Yeah, I think for me my biggest thing would be like If they don't have that drive or work ethic Then I'd feel like But no, this is something you can teach them This is something you can totally teach them

Because they wouldn't be to I don't know Like I'm not very different from my parents because you just live in this world and this is how you see the world and the kids, they just learn from you. That's it. But here's the thing, though,

what if I don't do a good job at teaching? What if they see, like, oh, you know, dad's always working. I don't want to work. There's something like that. Like, maybe they want to do the opposite way. But it's a, you can look at it in a positive way. My dad's always working.

That's amazing. If you're mean to your children or you don't, like, treat them well, then I think whatever you do, they're probably going to go against. But I think if you, like, shower your kid with love and support, obviously don't spoil them, you know, but you live your own good life and you show

them love and you do your own thing, they'll look at you just like most people would and be like, that's a pretty remarkable person. I want to be just like them. That's true. So I agree with that. So on the whole business side of things, how are your business is broken down currently? What businesses are you running? So my husband took over most of the operations of Lingua Trip, because it's really hard when other people cannot rely on you. Like sometimes the team needs a manager. And I I'm with a kid, so we decided that he's taking over all the operations at Language Trip. I'm doing my channels. I'm doing my courses.

I'm doing brand deals and investing. So those are the two things that you have going on. It's the language course thing. You have your own courses, like how to be a YouTuber and stuff, right? Yes, I remember those. And then the child and everything. Yeah. That's interesting.

Two kids. And how many hours are you working then? Four to five a day. That's the maximum I can do. But that's on top of taking care of Of course, yeah, yeah. No, like working is four to five hours, yeah, and the rest is like kids and home.

I don't know what to say. It's hard to relate because it's like we don't have those experiences. I'm like, we're trying to learn, but it's hard to be like, oh, yeah. How many hours do you work? Depends on the day, usually eight to 12 a day, I'd say. But it depends on the day.

Like Fridays I could take a little earlier because you have the whole weekend. And nothing happens in the market. I'd say you work close to like 60 hours a week, 50 to 60. Yeah. Yeah, probably. But it's great. Yeah, but it depends.

Because sometimes I could get like five hours with the work, but it's so concentrated. And you're just like in the zone. And other days it'll be like 14 hours. But my brain's scattered. I don't get quality work done. It takes me so much longer. And you've experimented with TikTok, right? Because I've seen your TikToks.

Oh, kind of. Kind of. We have the TikTok iced coffee hour, which have been doing really well for us. Oh, nice. Actually. The TikTok? The TikTok again. Yeah, it's been doing really well.

For my own personal, we've had our guy just clipping up little bits and pieces and posting them. I got to do more on TikTok, though. Yeah. I think realistic, he was here today. Yeah, I saw him. You should talk to him and just put him on the actual salary or something like that. I expect one per day because. I know.

I got to do that. And you should try creating platform-specific content. Like TikTok specific. I don't have the time. That's not true. I am burnt out. Everyone always has the time, man. I am burnt out.

You don't have the energy. I don't. But you have the time. Something will have to be pushed off. Something. I'm at a point now where I feel so good we're just saying no. And like even of what I have right now, I just, like, deep down, which I think I might do, is just say no.

It's like, just cancel the things I have going on right now. Interesting. Everything I've canceled, I felt so. good afterwards. Like I felt so good about the vlog. I felt so good about just everything else. Millennial money. Like just not doing it. It's weight has been lifted off my shoulder. I feel so much better.

And the more I say no to things, the better I feel the happier I am. Zero. Oh my gosh, no. You couldn't pay me to want to take that back on. I just, I don't want to do it anymore. So yeah, for TikTok content, it would take my time away from something else. Even now, I sold one rental property. That just closed. And now I'm like, it's so nice just not to think about it. It's the mental, I could go off the deep end here and just like sell everything. I'm not going to do that, but it's just the simplicity of just buying an index fund.

I've loved it. And I don't want to deal with the properties anymore. It's like, oh, I have to pay property taxes and remember, like, you know, I had insurance lap on a property. It was so stupid. And it was just because I didn't have the time. They sent me an email. I didn't see it.

And insurance lap for like three months. Like, what if something happened in those three months? And now I'm not insured because I'm too busy to look at an email and the property manager isn't aware of that. Interesting. So in five years, ideally, you would just do one video a week and that's it? I don't know. Because sometimes I love the three videos a week, and I love the current schedule.

I think if I could just, I think at the end of it, I just need to focus on the three things, which is main channel, second channelized coffee hour. And that's it. I don't think I have any capacity anymore for anything else other than those. And I think I just do those really well. That's my strength. Interesting.

Because, yeah, because I hear too many things, honestly. And I've been thinking, like, you know, even listening to all these pitches today, I've been taking so much advice from other people. And I just like, oh, yeah, they're right. Like, you know, not saying this is wrong for you, Jack, but, like, the outsourcing or taking on new projects and, oh, you should be doing this. And, you know, your audience is perfect to, you know, collaborate with these ideas. And, like, I think they're the wrong choices for me.

And at the end, like, I don't feel as excited as I should be. What's your end? Cool. Sorry, I took over. Yeah, I think it's fine. I'm just enjoying what I do. And I think at the end of the other, like, I enjoy making videos. And, like, that's what I have the most fun doing, everything else at this point.

But, like, if you could imagine an event where you go as a very special guest, like Oscars or Nobel Prize or whatever, like, what would this event be? Dr. Phil. Wait, me going on an event? Yeah. Yeah, like, I'm getting an award or. I don't want an award. I don't want it. Or like a party where everybody.

Graham hates parties. I don't go. I'm not that social. I don't know. Like a perfect event for me would be like six people, all you could eat sushi. That would be the perfect event for me. Who are those six people? Oh, gosh.

Well, Jack, obviously. No, I just think honestly with the team. It's like, you know, me, Macy, Jack, Alex, Kelsey, and then Jack's feature girlfriend. Six of us right there. Andrew could come along. Andrew, come along. Until you get a girlfriend and then Andrew, you know, tested. He's my interim girlfriend.

That's great that you're like, you're all said now. Yeah. He's got everything you want. You know what, Graham with the team? I got to say it. I'm always pushing to outsource. I'm always pushing, like, try this new thing. Try growing and stuff like that.

But at the end of the day, knowing who you are and with your logic, I think what you just said was extremely reasonable. And I agree with you. I think, yeah. Look, man, if you're at the point of just not having the energy, I sympathize with that. And I get where you're coming. As long as you can maintain what you're doing and you can maintain it well, it's totally fine. That's what I think.

Everything else has been stressing me out lately, and I just don't want to stress anymore. I just, I don't want to deal with it. I just, you know, I want to look at my emails and not have to deal with it. You know, I just want to focus, making videos, you know. Great. So I think that's, I've learned that. I think today was a good revelation for me. That's good, man.

Yeah, I think so, too. That's great. What about you, Marina? Do you feel like you still have all this energy to continue pushing these new things and trying out new businesses and scaling what you have right now? I think so. You think so? Yeah, I just got excited. Like, all the things happening with short videos.

Like, my choice right now is do I push it and just do more or do I stop there? Because, like, the attention I'm getting, I'm not ready for it right now. Like, millions of using, like, as I was saying, kids staring at me in the streets and, like, not necessarily getting the feedback I was expecting when I was, like, show. the Tesla and all of the comments are about me showing off with a Tesla. Oh, I remember. Okay, so did you see this video, Jack? No, how it. Okay.

It's kind of funny. I'm going to speak candidly here. No, I took the Tesla to the car wash. But instead of calling it a car, I took the car, the Tesla. But this is what I'm used to like. I say, I know. I do the same thing. I'm like, we're going to take the Tesla.

We're going to take my car. You're going to take the Tesla. That's interesting. Yeah, but everyone in the comments was like, I didn't know she had a Tesla. Tell me again that she had a Tesla. People are like, what car does she drive again? People do that with Tesla.

Like, Tesla specifically. But I did with everything. Like, I name things. I give them a name. And like the most basic thing you can name them is the brand. Yeah, it's true. Apple watch. Do you say watch?

Do you say Apple Watch? I say Apple Watch. Yeah. And I think with Tesla specifically, they do it. Nobody says, like, I'm going to take my Toyota, my Nissan. No, I say my Ford. I say my Ford all the time. You should remake that, but with Ford.

See what the reaction is. My Ford. My 87 Celica. Everyone's going to think it's sponsored there. I don't know. My 2010 Ford Explorer. That's a good way to ex-self. To make light of situations like that,

kind of leaning into the joke, you know what I mean? Leaning in the joke, but it happens every time. I deliver a message, but people see something completely different. Like, because they go viral. Like, if I get 300,000, like, when I get 300,000 views, like, the feedback is perfect. When I get 2 million views, 11 million news, 30 million views, this is when things go wild. And I don't know, like, I'm excited about all the views. Like, this is cool.

I can actually make this this type of videos. But at the same time, do I want people to see me as a dumb girl who says Tesla versus a car? I know, because they think it's dumb. I just think it's engagement. It's engaged. I know. But then I'm thinking, like, if I'm sorry. If I want to work with, you know, this particular brand, like if they come to the common section, would they want to work with me?

Yes. I don't know. I think if you got canceled, you're not getting canceled. No, no, no. I don't think it matters at all. Even like Chris, Chris Jenner, she made the master class. And I watched the master class. I was like, okay, it's a good product, but what do people say?

Because Kurdash and said her, so I went on Reddit. People were like, like, fucking on this product. And they were like, I will cancel my master class membership because you, did this. I was like, do I want to be, like, not exactly Kardashians, but do I want to be this controversial person that does something? And then the company

is also getting... Depends how safe you want to play it. I think there's a high risk, high reward. I think the risk is pretty limited because you're not saying it, like saying my Tesla and people are poking fun at that. I think it's very mild. I don't think there's anything

wrong with that. It's the nature of TikTok comments. Right. Are YouTube shorts? comments. That's just how it is. I think any brand would look at that and say, wow, 20 million views. That's incredible. I don't think they're going through reading the comments. I'd be surprised.

I think it's worth it. Because the thing is, like, when you're talking to 20 million people, like, that little minuscule percent is going to be the most vocal about it. Every time I have something, do better than average, you get those comments. And the haters are way louder than the people that support you. Not at the time, I think they're joking, though. I think it's just like, you know, exaggerating behind a computer because it's funny. And then if they start getting up votes, then it's like, ooh, I got all the attention.

And then if the creator response, like, wow, I got their attention. Half the time, I think it's just that. Yeah. I don't think it's that serious. But you've got a knack for this. Like, you're on to something, and we don't know how long the algorithm is going to work for. That's true. That's absolutely true.

And this is what I'm like, maybe we have six months. Maybe like that. I would take your shot because with this audience that you could grow, could be. be faster than like taking 10 years somewhere else and you could do it in six months. I think that the risk is low. Yeah, just managing how people see. Because I don't want to be seen as like this girl who shows off in Silicon Valley. This is not the brand I'm trying to build here.

Like I try to convey one message and people see another message. Maybe I have a review system. Have it filtered through like five people and then if they all like it. Like I watched her video and I didn't think a single thing about the Tesla until I went to the comments. Yeah. But you know what? It's funny.

Yeah, that's a good point. But the comments made me watch it again. So if anything, the comments could be, it's like this loop or it's like, watch the video, go to comments, watch the video again to see if the comments were right. Yeah. That could work to your favor. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, like the latest video about the flying experience when we had to wait, et cetera.

But everything, everyone was focused on like a broad neck on the airplane, but this is what Russians do would bring eggs, cucumbers, and ham to feed the babies. No, on the plane. See, this is what we did. And people like freaking out. Eggs, plane, really? But you know what, but I think some of that, just I want to say the culture differences make it watchable and engaging.

Yeah. And the fact that you get so many comments, I just, that's not something that people get upset about, at least. Like, I think it's fine. Yeah. I think something to work with myself as well because I think I want to control everything and also the way people see me

and when I can't control it I'm freaking out and that's my problem. I get you 100%. Like anytime I see a hate comment it makes my day so like okay this is gonna get a lot of people to write hate comments but it doesn't make me feel good right but I can see a bunch of really nice compliments

and I would say like the feeling that I get is so much less than like you know what I mean that I hate comment reason they put you down way more than, you know, nice comments put you up. Yeah. Yeah, I would say it's almost 100 to 1. Like, you have to get 100 good comments to outweigh one bad comments.

Yeah, I agree on that. It's terrible. But I think that, like, that's something we can all work on as creators is recognizing, like, people watch you for a reason. It means they probably appreciate what you have to say for the most part. I agree. And also, I'm a firm believer. It's like you get a pool of, you know, 100% of your people watch your video.

Let's say 99% enjoy it, 1% dislike it. 3% of your comments are going to be negative. because if you have a negative emotion towards the video, you're probably more likely to comment than, you know, positive. That's true. Well, thank you so much for you really appreciate it. What an interesting episode. I know.

Yeah, let me know the next time I get right into your recommended section, let me know for you. Before I reading the comments. Okay, I will. We'll do. Okay. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks.

It's good seeing. Thank you. Thanks. So up next we have Nate O'Brien coming on. This is going to be a really unique episode because Graham is actually going to be busy for this one. He has to judge this event. People are going to be pitching him their startup ideas. Something like that.

And it's just going to be Nate and I. So this is a one-on-one, very short, 15 minutes. You guys are going to love this one. We get really personal. Tune in. Hey, guys, thanks so much for tuning in. I have Nate O'Brien here today. You may notice Graham, Stephen.

He's gone. He's not present. It's just Nate and I. We're going to have a little low-key chat about some business, some cool stuff you're doing because you're doing a lot of cool stuff. I don't know how much you're comfortable talking about, Nate. We can talk about a lot of business stuff. Yeah.

Okay. Because you're doing two things. I mean, you've been on this podcast a couple of times before. We discussed your, like, reclusive slash minimalistic life that you're doing, where you're, like, going into, like, the Rockies and, like, living in a van. Yeah. And at the same time, you're running, like, multiple six-figure businesses online, and we can go into a little bit of both of those.

Sure, yeah. They are two, like, weird things. Like, you wouldn't think that they match up and you feel like they wouldn't align, but they do. You're not a very flashy person for, like, being so young, making... some pretty good change. Yeah, I don't like the flash. I don't like drawing attention to myself. And I, yeah, I never really set out to be like an influencer or like to get attention.

It was just sort of an opportunity. And so, you know. And you've never been flashed you're never wanted to be? No, I don't want people looking at me. I'm trying to stay discreet, you know. Would you consider yourself kind of like an introvert? Oh, big time, big introvert. I've gotten a lot better at speaking to people, just like force myself to learn it.

But my social battery dies very quickly. So I just spent five days in New York with tons of meetings, and now I'm just like, and it's always been that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, actually, before it was even bad, I wouldn't even go to social events because I couldn't handle them. Why? Is it like anxiety, or do you think it's just your tolerance is low for me? No, just like I wasn't good at holding conversations, didn't know how to communicate with people.

I had to teach myself how to do that. I'm wondering if since you spent assuming that you did this, you spent time away from like social events and parties and that kind of lifestyle, you were left to your own devices and that gave you a lot of time and opportunity to research like different business strategies and stuff like that. Yeah, definitely, especially growing up because I didn't have a lot of friends. And so when everybody would go hang out or go to the movies on the weekends in like middle school, I would just go home into my room and just like focus on like building things. And I'm always curious.

I ask this question to a lot of people that come on this podcast, but I'm always curious. Like, what is it in you? That is that innate desire. that I'm assuming you've always had to be exceptional in something. Like a lot of people, I'm guessing, live their life and they just think, you know, like I'm happy making ends meet, doing my thing, you know, settling down or whatever. But it seems like a lot of people we have on, they just have this innate desire. Do you know if it's like your family instilling values on you or if it's like just something you people are born with?

You know, for me it was actually because for a business thing, it was because I wanted a lot of freedom with my time. Right. So like that's why I started all the business ventures because, you know, I didn't want to get a job. They didn't want to have to go to school and everything. So I was like, let me just make some money so I can just do whatever I want, whenever I want. You can be Tuesday and I can just be sitting in a lawn chair somewhere in the middle of the day. But, yeah, I mean, my family didn't really pressure me on anything.

So there wasn't any, like, big pressure. It's like, Nate, you need to go to college. You need to get a good job. It was just kind of, hey, do whatever you want. You know, if you want to mow lawns, that's cool. If you want to be a, you know, a doctor, that's cool, too. But it was very chill. So I don't know where that came from.

I think it was just I love learning. I love really challenging myself, and I think you need growth always. And so, you know, there's that saying, like, if you're not growing, you're dying, right? So, like, just always moving forward in some way, just kind of keeps me happy and everything in check. And what about comparing yourself to other people? Because I do my best not to do it because it's just, I think it's just objective, well, not objectively, because you can use it to your advantage. But a lot of the times it results in some pretty bad, you feel poorly, right?

And I compare myself, believe or not, to you a lot. Because we're the exact, you're 23, right? Yeah. We're the exact same age, right? But you get to live in the Rockies and you like have this cool van life. But at the same time, you're making like crazy money. You get to travel a bunch. You're like nomadic.

Like that is like the ideal life in my opinion. Do you find yourself comparing yourself to other people? Oh, the grass is always greener on the other side. I mean, I remember actually you had, you and Graham had Kevin on the ice coffee hour at one point. And you actually, like, I came up in the conversation. And you were talking about how, you know, you guys would like to be me where you can just kind of travel and stuff. And then I was watching this thinking, I would love to be Graham where I could actually get out so much more work or Kevin where I can get out, you know, seven videos a day. So the grass is always greener on the other side.

Yeah. That's really interesting. That you want to be more productive. I mean, honestly, I'm pretty content where I am. I mean, I always have that like work smarter before you work harder and mentality. And it's like also just, you know, I'm okay with not working 100 hours a week, but I do wish I had that capability of doing that. Is there ever a time in your life do you think where you'll just be like, I have enough? I'm making good money.

I've been making good money for a long time. I can stop on my businesses and go travel. I think that would get depressing if you stopped everything entirely. I think right now what I'm doing is exactly what I wanted to do. That's like my dream of like being able to travel and also growing stuff on the side. So like you don't need to have a full sprint and sacrifice 30 years of my life in order to still accomplish. or something. That's kind of, so yeah, I think I can do both.

Maybe I'm not going to be, you know, a billionaire, but still I think I can accomplish both at the same time, have fun while also growing businesses. That's interesting. And onto your actual businesses that you're running at the moment, it's interesting to me because you have so many different businesses. And every time you come on here, you're always kind of like a little secretive about what exactly is going on. And I was wondering if maybe we could talk about some of those businesses that you're

running, how you built them up, how successful. Are they really and yeah? Yeah, I mean you know just pays the bills I have like some YouTube channels and like you know personal finance stuff and yeah a couple channels and Yeah, they pay bills so you have your main channel you have Nate O'Brien yeah and How much is that making? Are you are you comfortable saying numbers or would you I mean Yeah, I probably don't want to go into specific numbers, but it's it's like it's not making as much as it is it did last year because I make one video a month on it now I feel bad letting it totally die you know because I feel like I have to like give people something and also you know I could do some decent size brand deals so I feel bad like

letting it go right but it doesn't excite you that much no it doesn't excite me that much because I I think I've said everything I need to say but why can't you just reorient the reorient the type of content you're putting out to stuff that you're you know interested in because I just don't really want to talk to a camera you know there's there's other things that I'd rather work on that that we are working on so okay so you're saying stuff where you're behind the camera running some sort of business Yeah, yeah, that stuff is good as well. Like running channels without being on them is also great. But even just beyond that sort of like the stuff I'm working on with Sebi with some of the venture stuff is more exciting. Let's talk about that for a second. Because I know I actually only became aware of this other business that you're doing with Sebi.

I don't know how long, maybe like three, maybe like it was a month and a half ago or something. You guys all came to Vegas and we all went like gambling, I guess. Like we all played poker. Oh man, that was rough. It was rough. I was so scared playing poker in Vegas. It was like one of the first time I've played too so I didn't really know what was going on but you know we were trying to crack jokes and stuff and everybody's so serious at the poker table in Vegas it's just yeah yeah that was a tough experience right there but I remember we were sitting at the poker table and you're talking about like some new business venture with Seby and I was completely caught off guard by it maybe I'm just out of touch but what exactly is this business

that you're doing with Ask Sebi we've had him on the podcast before yeah he's a really really smart guy yeah Sebi's great guy genius and so if you remember Graham invested into YADA, right, which is that banking app and, you know, they do a lot of really cool things. But so Graham invested in that through one of Sebi's syndicates. So Sebi, going back on some of his history and the reason why we partnered together is because he had a company, he was a co-founder of a company that got acquired by a firm back in, I think, 2015. And then he actually became a YouTuber and that's sort of how we all connected with him.

But at some point, around 2020, he started running syndicates. And he lives in SF, so he's very tied in with the venture world and in like that very early stage precede and seed companies. And so he's doing those syndicates and then eventually we kind of combined forces and said, hey, let's launch a formal venture fund. And so we just launched back in May. So it's been pretty recent. And just kind of focusing on like, hey, look, we're creators, creators having equity in

companies and we can help those companies grow. And that's kind of the main thesis there. So explain it. What's that thing they say on Reddit? Like explain like I'm five or whatever. Okay. Give it to me like that, right? Like say I don't even know what a syndicate is.

So let's take it actually from the startup's perspective, right? Okay, wait, so you don't know what a syndicate is. So basically a syndicate is when you just get a group of people together and that creates like a vehicle that then invests into a company, right? So Sebi went, he went to Graham, he went to myself, he went to a handful of other finance influencers. He said, hey, there's this really cool company. It's super early.

They're raising on their seed round at a certain valuation. I think we should get all these creators together and invest into this company and get some equity in them because look like Graham say for example Weble, right? How much equity has been driven by Graham for Weble over the past five years is probably an insane amount.

And like he got paid, you know, a lot of cash. But if he had equity, there's a potential it would be worth even more. Or like when I started promoting Robin Hood in 2016, I don't know what the valuation was probably $100 million or something. You know? And then at one point, They're worth over $10 billion.

So instead of getting $5 in cash, having some equity that would have been really incredible. So you're saying you get a bunch of people together. And when you're basically shouting out these companies or doing affiliates and stuff like that, driving traffic, instead of being paid cash, people are being paid equity in these companies. Essentially. So there's different ways to do it. You can be paid in equity, which is through one of some of these companies called Subscribe, which you should just have on again to talk about it because it's really interesting.

Or just investing into it. But imagine as an influencer if every company that you're promoting and is sponsoring your video, you have, you own a piece of that company. Like how really important that could be. And that's what the big people do. You know, that's what like Logan Paul does with a lot of his stuff or the Kardashians, right? I mean, just look at the stuff that they're talking about, right? Logan Paul's not doing one-off videos with like some random brand. Most of the stuff that he's promoting today.

Or Mr. Beast, for example, he does some one-off stuff. But a lot of this stuff, like feastables with his Willie Wonka video, he has a vested interest aside from that. Exactly. So creators shouldn't just be focusing on cash. It's also nice to have cash plus some interest in that. Because really the real money in most of business is built in equity appreciation. That's interesting. And it also makes sense that the businesses would prefer this as well because then also they get to like, first of all, you get like to add the creator, whoever is, you know, shouting you out as your list of, you know, like people that own or whatever. Yeah, totally. And also, it's probably a little cheaper if you're a startup and you're, you know. And then also we can really help on helping their companies understand, hey, look, you're overpaying influencers, right?

Because I'm sure you guys see that as well, where there's some startups who will raise some money and they just don't know what's the going rate for influencers. And so that's what we're kind of there to help them as investors into their company. We have the connections, right? So we know a lot of influencers. We can connect them with them for potential brand deals and also tell them, look, you're getting screwed. you're paying too much for new users or whatever it might be. So, yeah, we just feel like it's a great relationship. So that's that right there.

You have that. You have your main channel. And then what else do you have going on? I mean, those are really the two main things. And then, yeah, and then just also a lot of networking, which is kind of a weird thing. You can't really. I've never found a ton of value in networking.

But I know you go to all these conferences. You go to all these events and meet with a bunch of other, like, companies and creators. Like what value do you find in that? It's a couple of things. So going back to what I said earlier, I love learning. And so when I can just meet people and they have a new business, like we were just talking to John, right?

And he was telling us about his new company that he launched, Lucy, which I'm assuming I can talk about on here. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it's just so interesting. And like, I would love to get on a call with him and talk for three hours about the company, just learn about it. And that might almost be a downside.

In the hopes of investing or something? No, no, no, no, just because I'm genuinely interested. And this might be one of my sort of like kryptonites, It's like my things that is almost bad where I'm too interested in things and in everything that sometimes I feel like I waste my time. Like, for example, I don't make a ton of videos on YouTube on my channel because I'm going to be honest, some of my time is just spent, you know, I'll spend six hours like researching a publicly traded company to try to make a trade. But maybe I should just be making videos. But I just love learning and I'm just always intrigued by things. That's really interesting.

And do you ever spend time like wasting it away, like on TikTok or just like? scrolling on YouTube shorts or something like that like I do that um yeah I mean I'm sure I do I would say the way that I waste time is probably a little bit different than other people so I don't consume really short form content I try to stay away from it just because I can't yeah like get away like it's so hard to get out of TikTok if once you enter into it you'll be on it for two hours so I mean I waste time like I'll drive for 15 hours on the road somewhere and just you know so that's kind of a waste of time I mean you're driving you're like listening to some crazy podcast yeah yeah I'm like

Like, thinking of your next multi-million dollar business. Okay, yes, yes. But, okay, yeah, that's true. But I love just learning. I love consuming as much as possible. Hmm. Okay, so that's all of the businesses that you have going on, basically, for the most part right now. Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, I have a couple, like, channels with my brother that also, you know, just kind of help, like, diversify a little bit. But other than that, yeah, that's pretty much it. And one thing I kind of wanted to make apparent, because I remember before I was, like, in the YouTube scene, and I would watch content similar to this, I would see like people that were near my age and I see them talking and they're all like business year or whatever. And I'm like gosh, like why am I not doing that? And I want to make it clear to people. I've always wanted to say this on the podcast, but now I guess it's the perfect time.

It's like Nate and I, when we're not talking on the podcast, it's not always about like, you know, these crazy business plans that we have. Like we all like, like, we just talk, you know, we joke around and talk about random stuff too. Oh, totally. I always just wanted to say that because I feel like that there's this idea that like people like Graham, people like you, people like me. like it's all business all the time. But that's not necessarily the case.

No, yeah, we do a lot outside of business, you know. Yeah, you got to have fun. Yeah. So Graham, I mean, you're still gone. I'm still just saying. So Graham's still gone. I mean, he's here right now, but recording this after the fact. But right now, I guess, in the video, he's, like, recording still.

And we figured it would be fun if we brought on Ask Seby. And Nate O'Brien is going to be filling in for Graham. He is my new co-host of this podcast. Let's get on with this. show with Ask Sebi. Welcome back to the iced coffee hour. We have my co-host, Nate O'Brien. Graham's actually filming the thing right now, and we wanted Seby on, and we couldn't have done it otherwise, so Nate's my co-host. Yeah, I've never co-hosted before, so. But you wanted to start a podcast, so this is a good opportunity to test out your skills. Yeah, so do we like

interrogate him or what's? Yeah, we're going to interrogate him. Don't you have a Nate O'Brien show? What happened to that? Ah, it's just been on the back burner forever, yeah. All right, well, well, we have Ask Seby. We've had you on the podcast before. People, people, People loved the episode. Okay, we talked about how you're an unemployed person making 10 million or whatever. I don't remember. Some clickbait. It was some clickbait that Graham came up with and I was like, all right, it sounds good

to me. So we brought you back on to talk about a lot of crazy stuff that's going on with you and your businesses and I know you've currently partnered with Nate on this new business venture. We kind of talked about it briefly when I had Nate on. I'm going to go ahead and pass it to you of Nate. What do you got to say? Yeah, kind of like, see, this is not a good hope. It's okay, man.

It's okay. What should I ask them? Okay, here, I have a question for you. I'm never starting a podcast. I can't do it. I'm retired. You got it, man. You got it.

But, yeah, what was your reasoning for? I have nothing. I have nothing. I believe in you. Okay, actually, tell us about the company that got acquired by a firm because you're so stealthy about that, and I didn't even know that until last year, and nobody knows that because he's so quiet about it. Yeah, so that was, we're basically helping people attending coding boot camps get loans because coding boot camps is one of those weird things where if you attend it, there's a very high likelihood that you get a very high paying job. So I think a lot of people who are not in the New York's and the Bay areas of the world or even LA's now, you don't realize that tech jobs can pay an absurd amount.

Like a lot of people in normal places, view six figures is kind of the dream. And oftentimes that's kind of the starting point for a lot of software. engineering roles and we're trying to help people get into these programs because they were otherwise expensive. So basically it was a lending platform for that purpose. Okay. So you were like tech lead kind of in a way? Not really tech lead. More so like kind of a firm or like a SOFI like getting a loan in order to attend the program. I think tech lead is selling you his course is his life. So for some reason it's hard basically to give loans or to go through the underwriting process or whatever these loans. For people that aren't making money.

yet. But for people that go through this coding boot camp, it's almost guaranteed that as they get out, they have a very marketable skill, they can get high-paying job. So you guys were providing loans for people to attend to those coding coups. Is it a tuition loan or is it like a loan? So those were tuition loans, but it wasn't, so these aren't like technically like colleges or traditional ones. They're more like secondary programs. So the hard part was making sure that we weren't financing bad programs. So a lot of these, okay, so it depends. So some of them are, very good in that they're focused on you getting hired and actually getting a good job and they have a good track record. A lot of other copycat ones were like, okay, you can charge people $21,000 or $17,000 to teach them the bare basics and there's no risk on their end.

So we need to make sure that we weren't funding those. Oh, so it depends on actually the boot camp that these people are going to. Yeah, so we were trying to go after like the Harvard and Stanford's of those programs to make sure that people had a higher likelihood of getting employed afterwards and also being able to repay it. And these weren't loans that were backed by the government or anything. These were just purely... It was peer-to-peer lending. How are you kind of like evaluating the sort of like the credit risk or like the default risk? And were you shipping that risk off?

Are you just like bringing it all on yourself? So we were just a technology platform. So we were not taking on the credit risk. We were a platform facilitating everything. And then also the risk, it was more so looking at the results of those coding boot camps and how they previously performed. So some of them, like again, if you don't have a track record, there, not that good. If you're someone who has a tendency of placing people at these high-paying jobs, then that's a lower risk. But the idea is that you might be very smart, you might be

under-employed right now. Let's say you're working at like McDonald's or something, but you are actually smart. But without that actual education, then you have a hard, it's a very hard path to get into that traditional role. And by going to this program, it can tangibly increase your income from $30,000 to let's say $80,000, $100,000. But, you might not want to pay that up front or you might not have the ability to get a loan of it. And who are the typical lenders? Was it just like random people that had good money or was it like businesses or banks? A lot of the lenders were not banks. A lot of the lenders were pretty much other tech people who have oftentimes seen the ability of tech to like kind of change people's lives.

And also some other people who are arbitraging to because they were like, well, I can make 8% here. And it makes sense because the credit risk feels relatively low. And that was kind of the rise of the prosperous of the world where you, There were a lot of peer-to-peer lending platforms taking off. And then that got acquired by a firm. Yeah. How much was the acquisition for? I can't say.

But where did your role fall into place in this? It was pretty much a bit of everything. So a lot of kind of marketing, partnerships, a bit of product. Like as a founder, you're not really doing just one thing. I think a lot of people, when they think of jobs, especially like traditional corporate jobs, you're looking very much like, okay, I do this. Anything beyond that? I'm not interested in.

I'm only hired for this. And that makes sense when you're an employee. But when you're like a founder or when you're like working with Graham, for example, you're probably doing a bit of everything, right? It's not like Graham's hiring you to edit. He's like, okay, cool, can you also send this email? Can you take out the trash? Can you pick up this package for me?

Yeah. You take out the trash for Graham? No. No. I've never taken out Graham's trash, but I have visited the postal office for him. Yeah, so the same idea. But, yeah, that was a while ago now. That's like seven years ago now.

And then transitioned into, YouTube. Why did you pivot to YouTube? Because I feel like when someone exits a company, then I feel like they just go onto their next startup. And I feel like YouTube is sort of, I've never seen that really. So ironically, YouTube was initially kind of, I was debating turning that into a next startup.

So I pretty much got very obsessed of credit cards. I kind of realized how much value could get from it. Because for me, as someone who grew up relatively, like I would say lower middle class income, I never thought I'd fly business class or first class, for that matter. So seeing how you can actually use points to do it, and I'm like, oh, wait, like instead of just turning those points into $700 in cash, that can be a business class flight that would otherwise cost $7,000. So the fact that I can kind of see how the other side lives was very interesting to me. And then I kind of dove into that rabbit hole of like, oh, crap, like there's all these cards.

You can actually kind of modify your spend. You can also sign up for them and just hit the intro bonus and do that. So initially, first off, I got very addicted to it. And then I was just telling my friends about it. That's kind of how that whole thing happened, where I spent like 30 minutes to like 45 minutes talking to a friend about like the Chase Half Hour Reserve. It's like, hey, you need to get this card. It makes so much sense. And then they were like, all right, cool.

And then next time I saw them, they're like, hey, can you explain the card again? I'm like, no. So I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to make content. It's like, at a minimum, it's going to be a friend who watches it. If they need to watch 10 times, great. But it's like just explaining the idea that like this is a no brainer as long as they're not overspending. And worst case, you can downgrade this into a new annual fee card. So that was kind of the starting point and then, yeah, just started making more content.

People were interested. And then I was surprised that I was getting a lot of smart comments too because I associated YouTube with like dumb comedy for lack of a better example where like the prank type stuff more than anything. So just to see like actual like professionals and smart people coming into, oh yes, I did this trip. I did this trip. That was pretty cool to me. And then initially that that whole thing was because I was also doing like a whole thing. a blog where I was trying to make the next like nerd wallet yeah so how many credit cards you have because I know you have a lot I'm saving that for a future video so I need to dozens at least

potentially yes many more than 30 and now I know you're going into like a lot of startup investing and stuff like that can you tell us a little bit more about I remember last time we talked we talked about the the business you just discussed what has changed since the last time we talked it was probably what like 10 months ago yeah so Which business? Like the startup investing business? It was the one that got acquired by a firm. It was the lending one. Yeah, so that was like eight years ago. That was like a while ago. Yeah, we talked about that in the first ever ice coffee art episode.

Yeah. So I ended up starting another company recently with Mandy, my co-founder, that's basically helping content creators work with startups for equity instead. The idea being that a lot of companies just can't pay what careers are worth, especially because personal finance rates might be more expensive than people realize. And then the other half of it is that we have seen so many of these companies go from, let's say, a 50 million valuation or 80 million to a 2 billion, a 1 billion valuation, like a unicorn. So if you think about it, like we're actively helping these companies 10, 20, 50x in value. But oftentimes when they come to us in their early stage, they kind of do the opposite. They're like, we can't pay that much because we're an early stage company and we'll pay you less now, but maybe I'll pay you more in the future.

And like you don't really want to take that hand-shick agreement because first off, they might not necessarily. pay you more and secondly maybe it just doesn't make sense for them to do that. So it's like okay cool how do you like incentivize creators to have that upside so that's the equity component and then in addition recently ended up starting a rolling fund of Nate O'Brien the idea being that we end up seeing a lot of deals we were doing a lot of angel investing anyways and by having this fund it basically means that we can help either high network individuals invest and get access to these deals that they otherwise wouldn't are creators who just don't have the time, right?

Because creators, even if they might be interested in getting their hands dirty, they have so many different things they're working on, that investing is this whole other thing that maybe it's not worth the time. Yeah, and sitting in on meetings too. And I've never run syndicates, but you've run many of them that I've been in. And I can imagine how sort of just much of a headache it is to round up influencers, to get them on a call with the founder, and then have the influencer do some level of due diligence.

And then, you know, so it's definitely the fund made a lot more sense. And what about the public companies, like the bigger stock market? How, when that goes down or when that's struggling, how does that affect the private companies and stuff that you guys are more in tune with? Yeah, I would say that funding slows down, but good companies are still getting funded. I think the problem is that a lot of private investors look at these public companies as multiples. So, for example, if you were making a mattress company right now, you're like, okay, cool, who's the whale the space. Casper. If Casper's not doing well, then your upside is so minimal as well. So that's kind of the big risk there, unless you have some other like twist to it or like something else

going on. So eight sleep is one where even though they are a mattress company, they're more so a technology company because they have cooling. They do a lot of data stuff on the back end. They have like the SaaS play where they charge you a monthly fee to get your information and stuff. So I think like it just depends on how you position it. But I would say generally a bit of a pullback. It sort of trickled down. It started with, say, November when Elon and Bezos and some of those big guys started selling a lot of their public shares, and then it sort of trickled down from public to like the late stage, like the Series C and Series D. And then eventually now it's even affected like the seed and pre-seed where they're having to lower their valuations as well overall. I would say it's a net good thing because it means that the valuations have come down to earth.

I'd say before that, like in the last, especially last year in particular, a lot of valuations were in like the absurd range where it was like pre-products, pre-idea, pre-idea, pre-eatia, pre-end. thing, it's like 50-mail valuation. Yeah, pretty much. How do these companies even come up with their valuation? Like, do they just say, oh, I think this company is worth this much? And then it's kind of like, it establishes its own market. And then people are like, oh, I'm willing to contribute this amount of money at this valuation. Or is there actual, like, statistics or data to back up each valuation?

So I think some people will say that it's the probability of you becoming a billion-dollar company and, like, how you want to price that. I'd say it's more so just what people want to pay, right? Like if people, if you're someone whose last startup was well front and you've done well, you have a good track record of like founding these billion dollar companies and making people 10 to 20x back, people happily invested a higher valuation. And then if you're someone who is like fresh out of school, then it's probably going to be a lower valuation or if you don't have a track record. So just because a company is valued at a high amount doesn't necessarily mean, you wouldn't say accurately represents the chances of this company becoming a billion dollar business. No. I think if anything, sometimes the higher the valuation, the harder it might be to even be to hit the goal to keep raising money.

So one of the things of startups, I think people get like confused with, especially if they watch a lot of Shark Tank is the whole like focus on necessarily cash flow. They'll be like, oh, like what's your margin on this? What's your cash flow? And it's like, yes, that's important for certain things like D to T where like if you're selling a can, that matters a lot. But if you're doing software, oftentimes in the early stage, it's about acquisition and whether you can like grab the market. and you can kind of figure out how to like turn on more profit like levers afterwards to make it so that you are more profitable. So like if you look at like most companies early on,

like Amazon's a good example of this where like for a long time there were like other people's margin is their opportunity because they wanted to keep expanding. And then that's kind of how they got into their position. But if you look back into like the finance like news shows like 20 years ago talking about Amazon, everyone thought it was a joke. So it's a tough thing, I think. What's the biggest factor you look at on somebody, let's say it's a kid who's 18 years old and they have an idea and they're trying to raise at a $25 million valuation?

What's like the biggest thing you look at to say, okay, this is the person that is going to do it? Yeah, I think a lot of it is. So I think the three criteria, as most people say, are founder. So whether it's the right founder, whether it's a market that you think is growing and also whether the product is good in that market. In terms of the founder, I think part of it is education. And then it's that intangible side. I think you can kind of get it when you talk to them. So it's like dating, right?

Like someone might be good on paper or like under Tinder profile. It's like, oh, they're super attractive. Hey, you too, me. That's you too, Nate. Come on. It's every single little criteria you're like, oh, okay, cool. But like maybe when you're talking to them, the chemistry is not there or you feel like they're not worth their time.

Yeah. Interesting. So for the person's side, there's that. industry obviously is that space growing? Is it something that is in need of disruption or like is like or maybe it's highly competitive? Like if you're launching something that sounds like a Me Too product, then that's very tough. And then also the product in that space, how it does, relatively. Jack, do you have any angel investments?

I kept sinking. Do I have any angel investments? Yeah. I've made one angel investment in this company called Good Cash. And I saw the pitch last time, Carrot, the people throwing this event, why everybody is here filming with us. This guy pitched, and I liked the company. And then I remember I also, I think I talked to you a little bit about it and you. And you guys just said, do it, Jack.

And I said, okay, yeah, I trust you guys. So I did. Yeah, he's a really smart kid. I shouldn't call my kid, but he's 18. So he's like, young adult. Super smart. Yeah. And I hear one other thing on Angel investing.

usually when you're when you're buying some private equity in these companies are you mostly placing a bet on the CEO or the founder and it's not necessarily the product yes because they can pivot that's the thing but like are they able to execute if they need to pivot end of the day like you're so early that it has to be the person interesting yeah you think that it would be the product you really would so here's the thing though there's there's so many companies that I pass on that are outside of the venture world, like there was one just this week, where the idea was so good. And I probably shouldn't share it right now, but it was such a good idea, and I'll share it off camera.

It was such a good idea, but he just wasn't an operator. And you can tell, like, based off of, like, his failed businesses in the past and all these other things. And so, yeah. That's interesting, but you love the idea. Yeah. And I was talking to Chris Camillo yesterday about this. And he's like, look, if they're not an operator, don't do it. Because even if the idea is amazing, it's a billion-dollar idea, if they're not, like, if they just, yeah.

So, big piece of advice from Chris. doesn't matter. And you're betting on the person sticking around and making it a successful long-term company. One wouldn't expect that at all. You think all it is is like the product or service because that's what you do when you're investing in public companies. It's not like you're usually considering the founder in that. Yeah. So for example, good cash, right? Like he by himself, like the idea, you could argue that maybe it sounds like a Me Too copycat idea because there's a lot of other companies that do something similar. But the fact that he's just very smart in executing and like does the legwork to me matters.

So coming on next, we have Eric Way. He is the co-CEO and founder of Tri-Carrat, the company that's hosting this entire event. We've been friends with him for a super long time. He's the CEO of a business valued in the nine-figure range, super interesting guy. We're going to talk about how he grew this business and a bunch of other really cool stuff. You excited? I am. Let's bring him on.

Eric, welcome to the iced coffee hour. This is a long time coming. I appreciate it. Grandma Jack, I feel like I'm supposed to know in dollar terms how much you've generated. Right? That's usually how you frame it. I actually don't know. I'm trying to remember, let's say, 300,000. That's an accurate guess. I mean, that's pretty good. I think it's like 220, 2.30. No, it's about 240. Okay. Okay. That's a good guess. I mean, that's very accurate. Yeah, that was the classic really just throwing a number out there and going with my gut. A lot of people go in the millions, but it's about that. I wish. So thank you so much for coming on. I think it's important that we introduce you because you are the founder and owner of the credit card that I use. all the time. We got to listen to this. Hold on.

The carrot credit card. You've got to go like this. This is the heaviest credit card that I have, and you've created this as a whole business of running credit cards. Could you give us a little bit of your backstory for a few minutes and how you came up with this idea and how this makes money? I still don't understand how you make money with this. So my background is a mix of a couple of.

of different things. I previously worked at Instagram as a product manager where I helped build Instagram Live, Instagram business and creator accounts, products for creator and condom businesses like yourselves. And I had the time of my life because I grew up on YouTube and Twitch and getting to build product and tools for the people I had spent my entire high school and college time watching. It just felt really special, especially, and this goes into the other part idea of things I did before going Instagram, I previously worked in finance. I went to Harvard. I studied economics. I worked in investment banking at Blackstone. I worked in management consulting McKinsey. And I was absolutely miserable. It was all things that I felt like I needed

to do because it's what everyone else around me was doing. But it never actually was what I wanted to do. And so I went through a period of my life. I'd say my teens to my mid-20s where I was very depressed, not really liking the direction I was heading and watching a lot of YouTube to try and distance myself from it. About six years ago, I had that existential realization. I had to make changes. That's why I left finance to go build products for creators. And now here at Carrot, the company I co-founded, it brings it all together because we build better financial products for creators. We've worked with so many people, for example, ZHC, who you've actually spoken with and interviewed before, one of the biggest YouTubers out there when he walks into a bank and tries to explain what

he does for a living, they don't actually get it. Another individual you might be familiar with Ludwig, top streamer who was doing his sub-a-thon last year trying to gift subs to people, his card kept declining because no bank trusted enough to give them a high enough limit. The entire financial system underwrites you off a set of really standard metrics like FICO, how much debt you've taken out in the United States and how much you've paid back. It doesn't account for your actual income, your cash flow, or if your creator, the size of your business and your social stats. So we're trying to build the financial system for content creator businesses. And as you said, our first product is a metal business card where we base its terms,

limits, and rewards off of those social stats. And you ask us, how do we make money? So the real secret for us, we don't charge any fees to the creators who use our cards. We make a little bit of money called interchange, which is the processing fee that stores merchants pay to accept cards, but the real play is the cross-sell. We believe that we're going to do such a good job with these cards in building our brand, building our trust, and developing our own underwriting model to actually assess where the creators are good businesses that we're going to be able to cross-sell them to other financial products down the line, like bank accounts, tax products,

lines of capital, even mortgages. The secret of financial technology products, it's always about the cross-sell. You're probably familiar. with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. The former head of Chase Jamie Diamond when asked, how much money do you make on this card? Because it was such a hit. He said, we lost $200 million this year on it. And I wish we had lost $400 million

because all of the cost was incurred in year one and all of the benefit is from people who potentially might switch over to other Chase products over five, six, seven years. So our whole thinking at Carrot is we started with a card, which many top creators like yourself use because it's going to give us the ability

to cross sell what we build next. So I'll pause there, but sort of a really quick high level on some of the things you asked. But you've been doing this credit card now for two years. When is the next product? So three years, actually. But the reason I say two, we spent one year just failing repeatedly over and over.

And we tried 15 different products. One of them was actually bookkeeping and taxes for creators. And it's what we're launching next now. The difference is when we tried to do it before, nobody knew who we were. And as a creator, you think about taxes maybe 1% of the time. Usually you're focused on growing your channel, doing more content, making more money. And the 1% of the time you care about taxes, everybody goes to the people they already know and trust. Every creator goes and finds, hey, you know, my mom's uncle's fraternity brother does taxes for bakeries.

Maybe he can help me out. So before in that year one, we spent an entire year trying to go out to creators saying, You haven't heard of me, but I can do this better for you. And everyone either being that 99% of the time when they didn't care or that one person of the time when they did, they already, are like, hey, I know somebody who can do this for me. But the reason why we're launching this now is because we actually have that trust. And we have the ability to go now to people and say,

you already use our cards. Now we can help manage your accounting, your tax strategy, your payroll. So that's the really big focus, scram and jack, that we actually just launched about a month ago. Who's doing that? How do you vet these people to make sure they're good? So there's really two, three things you care about when it comes to your bookkeeping and your taxes. The first one is, is it accurate, aka if it's not, you might get audited by the IRS. And there are so many creators we work with who are issues where they owe back taxes and penalties

because they didn't have someone helping them do it properly. The second thing is, does it help you save money? money. For example, if we went in order to Chipotle and started eating this here on camera, that potentially could be considered a business expense. And there are many financial professionals out there who don't know the sorts of right-house as creators that you can actually get. The third thing is responsiveness. A lot of times, you're on your own schedules. Both of you are so busy. You need someone who's managing your finances to be available right away. And so many creators, they're so much busier than normal small, small, being, businesses

that whoever they work with, they're not able to actually provide a high quality of service. So on those three things, making sure you're not audited, making sure you're getting all the write-offs, and making sure it's responsive, we actually went and hired the accounting creator specialists who were serving our cardholder clients. There were an entire team of people who we were emailing back and forth because we provided cards to their clients. And they'd ask us for statements. They'd ask us what is carrot, what is going on? And one day we went to them and said, hey, do you want to just come work for us?

Because everything you're doing, let's put it under one roof where not only are you going to help us provide the best quality financial services to creators, we're also a tech company with engineers. We're going to take those insights and start to build product around it too. So it's not just a peer services play for us. It's tech enabled. It's using the brand and trust we've developed with cards to hire the best people to now provide financial services and start to build product around automating more and more of those pieces. That's the focus now.

And again, what's our vision? It's one day every content creator business in the world comes to us to incorporate, to get set up on cards, accounts, taxes, credit, just everything. And this is just one small step toward getting there. Jack, really quick. You pressed record on these, right? Yes. I was paranoid for a second because I was like, oh, crap, was I supposed to do that? So here's something.

We're breaking some news right here, okay? We just wrapped up recording with Jack Conti, the CEO of Patreon. Yeah. What? You didn't click record on those. The cameras weren't recording. We'll get him after this. No, I'm serious.

I just wanted to get your live reaction because I think it would be kind of... Are you serious? Yes. No. Yes. It's right. I can't tell if you're messing because I mess with Jack

We're going to bring Jack back in after this. He's still upstairs. We'll make sure. Are you kidding me, Jack? Don't mess with me here. I'm not kidding, no, no. Because remember how I ran in because you were already in here?

I just assumed that you already clicked a cord on him. I saw you messing with this thing. Yeah, I mean, I turned this on. You don't know how to use that. You swear, Jack. You have to... I swear, I swear. I swear in your family.

I swear in my family. That's really high states. I screwed up. Really? Yeah. What do we do? It's fine. I'm not bothered by it. We could just try again. It's okay, Graham. No, but that was so good the first time.

I know it was really good, but we can get it again. Hey, look at it now. You have an even deeper friendship, and you know Jack, and I'm sure he's going to want to come down. We have another pitch coming up. After that, we can go crap punch. And right now, we have Eric from TriKarrat who has, what's the valuation, like, 400 million? Really high, and it's actually confidential for reasons that I'll tell you afterwards. But suffice it to say is we've built a product a lot of creators love and we've raised a lot of money. And I'll also say the whole reason why we brought Jack in, and for those who are watching and listening who might have the Connie, is Jack Conti, the founder and CEO of Patreon, who's a fellow judge with Graham here on the whole creator Shark Tank show we're putting together. The reason why we brought in Jack in why I'm excited to bring him back down and have him re-record is because that guy is the great example, one of the first tech CEOs who's also a creator.

because he's also a musician. Jack, I think, is actually one of the first CEOs who's also a creator. So I'm just trying to follow in his footsteps. And this is our way of creating by hosting events like this. Let's talk a little bit about this event specifically. Because I know with your card, you throw a lot of, like, different parties and events and then invite every creator. And it's one of my favorite things about the card, honestly.

It's the community that you guys facilitate. The perks of the card are obviously, like, they're great. I love the cashback and everything. And obviously, like, the fact that it's metal, totally. But I love the events that you guys throw and let's talk about this one specifically. We've done one like this in the past where it's like a shark tank kind of but instead of the sharks it's just a bunch of really good creators and then you bring in other people. What's like the purpose behind these events?

I'm sure that they're not cheap. So we want Scott dinner with Max Lepchen, the co-founder of PayPal and she told us the most important thing around financial products and acquisition. It's actually trust. Think about the financial products you use. I know for myself, the bank's I'm on is the one my mom set up from when I was 10 years old. In order to do something different and something new, you have to have a lot of trust in that new company and what you're doing.

And we're building something really new. Financial products for creators. The trust and awareness and education piece is actually the most important. We're not trying to say, hey, we're better than all of the other products out there. We're trying to say, hey, as a creator, you should care about these things, period. Because you're not just a creator and a creative. You're also a business who deserves and needs to be set up on business products. So an event like this one, creator Shark Tank, it's about helping everybody and yourselves see yourselves as businesses, as entrepreneurs, as CEOs of your own media empires, and as investors who other companies are coming in asking for your expertise to help. I know you've spoken with Minx as well.

And Minx joined because when I chatted with her on Discord and I said, hey, I I think you'd be fantastic as a judge on our creator Shark Tank. She said, hey, you know, like, I don't know if this is really my style. And I said, this is a chance to show to the world that you're not just funny. You're smart. And we get, and our mission is carrot to elevate you to the rest of the world sees you the same way we do as business people. So we host things like this because it builds trust and awareness and it aligns with our mission, where instead of watching Mark Cuban and Kevin O'Leary, you get to be.

get to watch people and personalities who've built followings of millions who inspire, entertain, and educate come in a different context as business people. One thing that I found kind of interesting is how you mentioned a mission of the company. How many employees do you currently have? So we have about 50 employees right now. 50 employees. And we recently had Layla Hormosey on the podcast. And she was mentioning how you can develop a good culture around the business.

Because she has her startup, I guess, as well. And she said the most important thing in order to create a culture around a business and to get good hardworking employees is you have to establish a mission and like a core goal basically that the company is trying to achieve. And then beneath that, what did she say there was? It was values. I don't remember. I think it was a mission. You have to establish a mission. And then you have to think about every action and value and make sure that every action and value of the employees is serving that mission somehow.

Now, how do you establish a culture within your business? And how do you find good people to try to emulate that culture? First all, absolutely love Alex and Leila. Second, the reason why you need a mission, even as looking as super tactically as a startup, why would somebody come work for us when they could just go work for Facebook and get paid multiple times more and probably work less? The only reason they would is they might be really aligned on liking us as people.

they might be excited by the prospect of building an early-stage company with the chance at upside. But part of it is going to be the mission. It's the why are you even a thing? Why do you even exist? And when you bring Jack, you should ask him about it. We actually share a very similar mission to Jack where he's described it as empowering the second renaissance. Many of you are familiar with the first Renaissance, which was a blossoming of intellectual and creative energy. and thinking is there's going to be another,

because when you've made it easier than ever for people to create content and share with each other, there's going to be a moment where the younger generations, they're all growing up, they want to be creators. Making content like this for them is going to be as simple and easy as breathing. And then when everybody feels comfortable sharing, creating content with each other, at a certain point, there's not going to be like a singularity moment

where, boom, there's going to be another inflection point in terms of humanity benefiting from everyone sharing and learning amongst themselves. And so in a way, the mission of companies like Patreon and ourselves is to empower the creators and help make that happen. And the way we see it as a creator, there's a lot of things you have to do on figuring out how to make content, how to find your community, how to make money from it. We're the ones that want to help you scale it into a business. Anything involving the hard work around managing your flows of money,

working with the financial system, working with the government, we want to make that easy. So you get to continue focusing on the creative piece. That's not only our mission. It's also why I started to carry it. The best part of what I get to do is spending time with people like both of you, genuinely appreciating and admiring what you've built. And just thinking through from my side, is there something I can do to make that better? The impetus behind our various product, like I said, is people like ZHC, people like, Ludwig who were just suffering really low limits set by really arbitrary banks. And that's what

informed the decision to go build that out. And everything we're doing after is based on what you think is important. Do you worry, though, that these banks have these systems in there for a reason? They've been around for a very long time. And by breaking some of those reasons, that maybe you're opening yourself up to some sort of issue, let's say, if a creator charges up the card, all of a sudden their ad revenue goes down, a sponsor doesn't come through, and and you're in a position like, oh, crap, I spent 100 grand and I got 20K. Yeah. Don't you worry about that?

That's a higher likelihood of happening here. So the risk and reward come hand in hand. People often ask, oh, I assume in starting this company, you must have figured out a way to minimize defaults. No, we have defaults. Absolutely. It's why there's no free lunch. It's why nobody's built something like this before.

You can't go and underwrite a brand new population without incurring the risk in learnings around figuring out, oh, here's somebody who I thought was good and they actually weren't. And the only way to build an underwriting model and build financial products for new population is to say, I'm going to underwrite people who I think might default. Because if you only underwrite the people who you think are good, you're just hard coding your own assumptions. You're not actually learning. So the really long answer to your point, Graham, is it's absolutely risky.

And big banks don't do it because they already have a proven business. model on serving the lowest common denominator of your average American. And what's changing now is financial technology products are becoming easier and easier to build, which means you get to specialize and build it to solve specific problems for specific types of people. You've probably noticed chime and step, for example, build to solve problems for young adults and teenagers. Nova Credit is focused on solving the problems of immigrants. There's ones doing that for Uber drivers and freelancers. We're doing that for creators. And yes, And underwriting that new population, you will face more defaults because you're taking on an area that people haven't yet understood.

But the hope is, if you can learn fast enough, you now have built a moat that stops anybody else from coming in. In terms of not only the trust you've built from a brand POV, but literally your underwriting models can be better than anybody else's because you've now learned what actually matters and what doesn't. So who defaults? Could you give us like maybe some factors that would play into that, like creators? who make riskier content or creators with under X amount of subscribers. So I frame it as where were the areas or populations that we had to learn the most because we knew the least? And it's creators who have now begun to expand their business models beyond just making money from, say, AdSense or sponsorship revenue. It's folks who have built content businesses where, say, now they're selling.

products and there's inventory risk, right? Then there's a potential outcome where they didn't necessarily know how well they were going to sell and it didn't end up being as strong as they thought it would. And those were some of the cases where we saw as, hey, we know this is a riskier segment. The upside is also potentially larger too. And we want to go learn and see how we can underwrite. It's probably the same calculus that both of you think about as creators, right? When you've decided, for example, to launch a line of courses, that was a little bit more risk for a little bit more reward. You've actually spoken on your channel about launching your coffee business and the risks and expenses and tribulations you've gone through are frankly, probably an order of magnitude more complex and harder than if you stuck to just doing content. But you do it because there's also more potential reward.

So I think of it less as who's more likely to fall and more on what are the segments that we realized we had to learn more to comfortably. because their business models were different and growing beyond the traditional, hey, I make content and I get AdSense and I get sponsorship revenue. Okay, so it's the night before posting, but we can't forget about giving a verbal shout out to our patrons. We got a shout out Ben, Ashmore, Rich Smith, Colin L, Enom Khan with Inam from investing, or investing with Enom, Rick Barkley and Kevin Dungle. Thank you guys so much for being patrons.

Thank you.