The Iced Coffee Hour - How Clavicular Makes (And Spends) $500,000+ Per Month By LooksMaxxing

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Starting point is 00:00:45 For the average person starting their journey of ascension, where does every dollar go? The average person's pretty fine. Lovicular had an apparent overdose here in South Florida, and those disturbing moments unfolding live on camera before the stream suddenly cuts off. What are you taking right now? 10 milligrams of redetrutin, testosterone, macutin, melanotan, 2, ibupil, inoxidyl, potassium, and exams. With the concurrent viewers with Kik, what is K-pate? Around like 1,000 an hour.

Starting point is 00:01:14 You have Snapchat, which is a new one that's really big. Few grand a day. What is your gambling deal look like? I gamble 15K every day. How much do you spend every month? Do you have this penthouse apartment? You have another one, apparently. That's way nicer, you said.

Starting point is 00:01:29 $400,000? $400,000 a month. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Clavicular, thank you so much for coming on, the ice coffee hour. Thanks for having me. You get one billion views per month. How much do you pay for that?

Starting point is 00:01:45 Zero. You pay $0 for a billion views. I have no clipping spend. How do you spend zero and get a billion views? Kick pays for the clipping because it's got a huge kick.com slash clavicular logo. So they're driving traffic to their site, right? When you do a clipping campaign, you're sort of picking, like, where you want these views to go, whether it be your product or maybe getting people to follow your

Starting point is 00:02:12 account, whatever the case may be. And KIC is driving traffic to their website because on their website, it's stake. A lot of people gamble on stake. So that's kind of what happens. Did they run this for anyone else? Everyone on KICK. Everyone on KIC. Yeah. And so if you create a KIC account and you get views, they just assume that you're okay with running clipping. Yeah, you get a clipping budget. What's your clipping budget?

Starting point is 00:02:39 It's unlimited. It's just they'll fluctuate the CPM based on like the spend. So like one month it was close to 700,000. Whoa. Yeah. Holy cow. 700 grand. Yeah, I did 2.2 billion views in like a month or two ago.

Starting point is 00:03:00 That is insane. Do you think people care because it's looks maxing, or do you think they care because they want to see what you're doing? Both. It's like a new phenomenon, and, like, I'm sort of created an entire new part of the internet, so it's just like, it's different content. People want to see it. Is looks maxing more popular today or about a year ago?

Starting point is 00:03:21 Today, for sure. I would say that looks maxing, you know, I'm obviously like the face of it. So maybe like the popularity that you saw for looks maxing and you saw all these videos about looks maxing, maybe you're seeing videos about me instead. It could be the case of that, but it's as big as ever. Everyone knows what looks maxing is. Every kid is using these terms, whether it be, you know, the NFL or Netflix, people are saying it at the Oscar Awards. So it's the lingo that's also huge.

Starting point is 00:03:57 Imagine three guys. One of them is five, four. with $50 million, and he has average everything, aside from money. One of them is 510, average on everything, but very funny. One of them is 6-3, broke, obese, and balding. Who would you rather be? I would say the middle option in the immediate context, but the person who's 5-4 arguably has the best chance to ascend, right? With that kind of, you know, with that kind of savings, you could do a lot of different things, get a lot of different surgeries and max out, you know, with limb lengthening, because that is like very low percentile height. So you're going to be at a huge

Starting point is 00:04:40 disadvantage in dating, right? A lot of like women will filter out, even anything below six feet on dating apps. You're not even going to appear as they're swiping. And that's where the majority of people are meeting their partners nowadays. There's a lot of new research on this. People don't meet in person as your parents would. So totally different dating marketing markets. market, you know, but with that amount of money, you're going to be able to really, like, do different things like flex your status and get girls, but it won't be authentic love. That's the problem, right? Fake love.

Starting point is 00:05:14 Right. I mean, you might be able to have, you know, a 90-foot boat or whatever that plenty of women want to come on just for the experience, but are they really going to love you? That's the question. Whereas, you know, the example of the guy who's 5'10. With a good personality, it's a lot more likely. So you think someone who's under a certain height is incapable of being loved? Or how does that work?

Starting point is 00:05:37 Or is it only the money and the status? I think it's less likely, certainly. But it's possible. It's, yeah, anything's possible, right? But are we talking about, you always have to clarify, like getting women and having women around because that's not necessarily the most difficult thing in the world, but keeping them and actually having them be physically attracted to you. Very different ballgame.

Starting point is 00:06:00 So what's your advice to the other two? The person who's 6-3 and fat and balding, that's going to be something that's pretty easy to ascend in, right? Getting lean with today's technology, the gLP ones, it's never been easier. So there's really no excuse. And 2026, in my opinion, to be overweight. Like, that just seems ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:06:22 And as for the hair, you have a lot of different stuff. You have hair transplants. You have hair, systems. So, you know, you do that in conjunction with a good hair loss protocol, then, you know, you're going to be able to ascend. The only issue is, you know, being broke, it's a very competitive dating market. So once you ascend and you do these things in your 630, you have hair, you're in good shape. There's someone who's also going to have those same stat lines, but they're also going to have millions of dollars, right, because of just the nature of hypergamy and how Instagram's global

Starting point is 00:06:56 anything. You're not just competing with that 20 mile radius of the guys in your town. You're competing with sometimes famous influencers, athletes, people all around the world. So if you were building the perfect male from scratch, where would you start? The common saying is it's all about the face, right? That's going to be the thing in which, you know, the margin for error is extremely small, right? If your midface ratio is even a centimeter long, that's going to affect you a lot more than, you know, even 10 centimeters of height will. For example, if your midface is one to one, it would be perfect. You know, that's going to be the distance between your pupils relative to the distance between your pupil and your lip. So if you extend that by a centimeter or decrease it by a

Starting point is 00:07:46 centimeter, that's going to have a huge effect on your facial ratios and your overall harmony percentage versus, you know, if you change a margin of one centimeter, even to 10 centimeters, and height, it's not going to do as much. So you would start there, though, and then what's next after that? Just physical, I would say, would be your height, right? Women are going to feel, you know, that sense of being protected, and they're going to feel a lot safer. their anxiety levels will drop quite significantly. And there's a lot of research, even, you know, if you extend it to your career, right, about your average income going up for every inch, you know, above six feet you are. It's like an additional $5,000 on average per year. So that's probably

Starting point is 00:08:33 where I would go next. And then, you know, after that would be having a proportional frame because a lot of taller guys, we call them lanklets on the forum, because they'll have that super narrow by deltoid width. and it's just not proportional to your height. So it kind of looks goofy. So the frame and how wide your biochromial width is shoulder joint to shoulder joint is very important. What if you were to build the optimal female from scratch? I would say the same pretty much. So the face is always going to be the most important to me.

Starting point is 00:09:06 It's sort of like been a new trend that's been influenced, I think by pornography more or less, with just like this emphasis on the body more so than a girl having like a super model looking hot face. It's like a lot of guys are just like gooning and shit all day. So they're just looking with the girl with the biggest, some of the biggest tins. But you know, that's obviously not going to be the best choice in terms of your genetics and what you're passing along to your kids. There's also a different thing that I look for in women, which is an important ratio called. the waist to hip ratio. And that's a huge indicator of fertility. Okay, that's interesting. So you look for fertility in women. And this is not supposed to be a contending thing. It just sparked an idea in my

Starting point is 00:09:53 head. But I also know that you've been, you know, taking PEDs for several years. Correct. Yeah. And I think I've heard somewhere that you claim to be incapable of being fertile, at least in the current stage. How does where does your mind go when you juxtapose those two things? Well, I mean, I'm infertile as of now, but with the right fertility protocol, HG and HMG, yeah, I'll be able to regain my fertility quite quickly. And, you know, I've been thinking about doing the protocol and just freezing sperm while I'm still young because the more years go on, your chances sort of diminish, but it's extremely, extremely rare, and the chances are so low that you'll go completely infertile from taking testosterone that it's really not even that important.

Starting point is 00:10:41 If you had $10,000 for the average person to spend starting their journey of ascension, where does every dollar go? I would say it goes towards GLP1 peptides, a gym membership, different things like makeup is a really good one. I would say different tanning supplements, melanotan2, you know, you have your carotenoids, stuff like that. That's a pretty good place to start. How are we so sure that this is not potentially harmful? Well, there's a lot of research, and it's a completely mainstream opinion that GLP-1s and something like Redisur Tide are very actually healthy for you, right? So your lipid profile is going to go down, right?

Starting point is 00:11:29 But is it the peptide itself, or is it once you lose weight, you're just naturally healthy? A little bit of both, you know? So the glucagon receptor. that's being agonized has lots of different health benefits. Redisututide is also good for non-fatty acid liver. You know, so there's tons of different stuff that comes along with this. And the phase two clinical trials have really shown that, even at high doses, reddishutide, as high as 12 milligrams, is proven to be safe. What are you taking right now? Right now, I'm taking 10 milligrams of red atchutide every five days. I'm taking 200 milligrams,

Starting point is 00:12:10 of testosterone, 7.5 milligrams of acutine, 150 micrograms a day of melanotan 2. I'm taking 5 milligrams of didalafil, Cialis a day. I take 5 milligrams of Nebivol, which is a beta blocker per day. I take 2.5 milligrams of monoxidil. I take 0.5 milligrams of deastoride, and I take 9 milligrams of M-SAM, soleduline. How much does that cost? I would say the most expensive would be the M-SAM, the sulegeline, since no insurance really covers it, and I don't have health insurance regardless. I think it's about $2,200 a month for just that. But the rest of it, I would say my prescriptions are probably like maybe $300 a month. So about $2,500 a month, give or take on the supplements. Yeah, about that. And what would happen if tomorrow you decide?

Starting point is 00:13:10 decided to quit everything. Well, I would be hypogynatal. So my testosterone would take two or three weeks to start, you know, my endocrine cycle again. So my energy levels would be pretty bad. I would lose some muscle mass. And, you know, when you stop taking the monocidil, all the different hair density will start to go away. Some of my eyelashes will fall out. So those would be the biggest changes. But Everything else wouldn't really be too noticeable. And what about makeup? Are you wearing any makeup right now? A lot of people run their side hustles off their personal Venmo and Instagram for way longer

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Starting point is 00:14:49 Yeah, a little bit. Where? Just, I use like a tinted SPF. Does that qualify as makeup? I don't think that's. Yeah, I think so. Tented sunscreen. If it doesn't know if that is.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Yeah, I don't know if that. Well, I mean, just for argument's sake, it's like, say you were to opt for like a little bit concealer as well, like, you know, to cover up, um, some blemishes. I don't really think that's, um, something that should be criticized because you're never going to get caught for it unless you're saying on a podcast, you know? So I've always been a huge advocate for, uh, men's makeup. Because like, why should you have to suffer from horrible skin and acne when, uh, an easy solution exists that's been used by women for decades? I see this a little bit more traditionally. Like,

Starting point is 00:15:36 if you're wearing makeup as a man, let's just say, I'm putting myself in the shoes of a woman. I could be completely wrong. I don't have the brain of a woman. Don't make any comments about me having the brain of a woman. Let's just say that I start dating a woman. And all of a sudden, she comes over and she looks into my bathroom and she just sees everything. She sees concealers. She sees blush. She sees, I don't know, mascara, all these things. She would think that you're cheating. She would think I'm cheating, first of all. But then after that, she'd be like, so you wear all of this stuff. And I said, yes, I do. I think that that would be like the plate crash moment in how I met your mother where everything just falls apart because she would be like, wow, this person is a fraud or be very metrosexual, which I think being Metro is an unattractive.

Starting point is 00:16:22 I have trait. Or that you're trying too hard. That's Metro. No, I thought Metro is just into like female things. No. Metro's not trying to. What is Metro. Okay.

Starting point is 00:16:33 I don't know. That's like a millennial term. I think it's just like a guy. detective. I'm millennial. That's like a more of a fashion style, I'm pretty sure. But if there's something that can make you better looking and more attractive to women, why wouldn't you leverage that? You know, that doesn't really make any sense to me. And I've never had a girl really say anything about makeup. And I mean, what, you're telling me that you can't just like put this stuff in a draw or something. So like these don't seem like really valid reasons to not engage in it.

Starting point is 00:17:05 Like, I think that, um, you're a lot better off maybe having a stick of concealer, uh, in your bathroom than being acne ridden, you know? Maybe it's different if you had lipstick. Yeah. And that's maybe a little... No one's talking about that. You know, we're talking about, you know, maybe just covering up a little bit of blemish. We're not talking about mascara. We're simply talking about...

Starting point is 00:17:26 About eyelash. Yeah. I mean, I just imagine a guy crying for some reason and it's like coming down his face and he's at the club because a girl just rejected him. I'm like, there's... I can't imagine a lower place to be than that. Right. Yeah, but I mean, these are all hypotheticals that aren't realistic, you know, so... I'm very pro, looks max, make a max.

Starting point is 00:17:48 Are there any genetic disadvantages that are pretty much irreversible? Yeah, like having like, you know, a really tiny skull or short face syndrome, these are all things that are going to be very difficult to fix. I mean, like, there's a lot of people who are genetic defects because maybe you're an acutane baby, maybe, you know, the mother was consuming too much alcohol in the womb. So, like, a lot of these things, unfortunately, are going to be quite brutal in your life and, you know, the way people treat you, not consciously, more so subconsciously, is going to be worse.

Starting point is 00:18:30 And that's a really hard thing to say, and it's a really unfortunate reality because, you know, you want to judge people and treat all people equally. but it's not really something that you could control if it's in your subconscious. What genetic defect do you have that you think is irreversible, something that you cannot improve? I've got something called pectus excavateum, which is just a little bit of a collapsed sternum right here in between my pecks. So it could be fixed, but you have to have this procedure called the Nussbar procedure where there's a metal bar that gets inserted into your chest and then it pushes it up. But it takes about six months. And you can,

Starting point is 00:19:10 can't train. It's extremely expensive. So that's just not something that I'm willing to undergo for just how small of an issue it is. So what genetic disadvantages are just cope? Like, they're not actually genetic disadvantages. People just, they blame it. Oh, yeah, like, I'm big-boned. You know, I don't necessarily agree with that. What would you say or just cope? anything that's not super visible when you're wearing like normal clothes like maybe your ab inserts or um you know a decent amount of your muscle inserts are not going to be the most like life changing thing um to have like bodybuilder uh tier perfect muscular insertions um but everything matters right so there's no reason like i don't really think anything is is necessarily too cope it just

Starting point is 00:20:05 There are things that matter more and things that matter less. It's interesting. I just saw this, actually. On Twitter, they had two twins, and they looked at male pattern baldness. And the twin that was in the sun more, smoked more, drank more, had a lot of thinning hair. The other twin who didn't do any of that led a healthy lifestyle low stress to, full head of hair. Yeah, so smoking and drinking are very aging. Smoking is going to be the worst thing that you could do for your collagen.

Starting point is 00:20:33 so that will aid you quite significantly. So I always heavily advocate against both of them. And it's like people will see me on the stream sometimes smoking a cigarette or, you know, having a drink because I do nightlife content. But I know exactly what's going on. And I think being conscious of the fact that alcohol or ethanol, whatever you want to call it, is very toxic to your body is a good thing because it limits my consumption. Every time I'm about to have a drink, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm weighing in my head how this is going to affect my looks, what this is actually doing in terms of neurotoxicity, what it's doing to my liver. So having that always in the back of my head helps. Where is the worst place to have your natural fat storage?

Starting point is 00:21:20 Because I could be wrong here, correct the science, but everybody's body comp is slightly different. And some people store fat more in their trunk, some people more in like the torso area, some people up here. Like Elon Musk, he's a little bit more dense kind of up here than he is down here. Right. Me, I got kind of a wagon. I got kind of a caboose that's just I naturally store the fat back there. And mine is just like the- He's got an inner belt. Perpetual inner tube.

Starting point is 00:21:43 I do. Yeah. Obviously, the face is going to, first and foremost. The next, I would say, would be your cemental region. So right underneath your jaw. So if you have like that turkey neck look, that's not good. How do you lose fat there? Because I've seen some people that appear to be decently lean, but they do have like,

Starting point is 00:22:00 there's a slant, you know what I mean? Well, it's also tissue and it's also about like your oral volume, so the forward growth of your jaw. So it's a lot more nuanced than just adipose tissue, but it certainly goes into it. So I would say that's bad. Another underrated brutal one is going to be your mon's pubis. Oh.

Starting point is 00:22:20 So the fat pad right above your penis, that's going to reduce your perceived length because it's almost like obfuscating wears like the, the base of your shaft, like, you know, so your non-bone-press length will be, like, significantly lower. And where are the best places to store fat? Probably your glutes, um, your legs, um, the, your arms and maybe like your back is in the most, you know, significant.

Starting point is 00:22:54 But yeah, having a lot of fat around like your waist, your midsection, um, these are all going to be pretty bad for your physique. Yeah. At what age does looks max and give you the highest ROI? As young as possible, right? And that's not saying like, oh, taking red at Shrutide and doing all this crazy shit. That just means consuming enough macronutrients, eating a lot of protein, right? Enough micronutrients, supplements.

Starting point is 00:23:22 All this kind of stuff is going to be great, right? maybe being conscious of, you know, things that are going to affect your growth, right? So that's doing things like drinking. I notice nowadays it's not uncommon that people start drinking really like freshman year of high school. And that's such a terrible thing because that is going to really, really affect your MTOR signaling, which is a huge growth pathway. It's very neurotoxic as well. What's the earliest that someone should looks max? Forever. Looks maxing is in. just about like these crazy peptides and all this, it's anything that makes you look better is looks maxing. But like at what age? Like what's the youngest? Like when I was, it's as soon as

Starting point is 00:24:06 become body conscious. Like when I was 11, I was self-conscious that I was fat. And so, or I was self-conscious that I was very pale. And so I was like, I got to get in the sun a little bit more. But like, like that is considered looks maxing. I think what Graham is saying is like what age do you make it like a very strong priority where you start, you know, actively, you know, making that a part of your routine. I think once you start coming into high school, it's a good idea to start being conscious of your diet, to start some sort of training regimen, you know, maybe a skincare routine. And if it's earlier than that, then great, right? Starting to wear SPF at a very early age. Like, earlier you start to do all these things, the better, right? You know, so I would

Starting point is 00:24:54 say is it's just going to depend on people's maturity levels. When does surgery become more valuable than lifestyle improvements? If you're someone with like huge facial phaloes, right, if you've got like this huge nose that just is like so brutal and, you know, everyone's making fun of you. You're not going to really be able to compete in the dating game. Then you could watch all the red pill pickup artist courses and learn the perfect game,

Starting point is 00:25:23 the perfect cold approach. But that's going to be the thing that's holding you back. So I think it's just about fixing your phalo's, not trying to create halos, has always been, you know, the general advice from the LuxMax community. Does that make sense? So it's two motivating factors. One, some people are motivated running towards something. Some people are motivated running away from something. And you would say you find the things that you don't like and you actively change those.

Starting point is 00:25:53 Right. I mean, like, if you've got like an average looking eye area, you shouldn't be trying to go for like orbital implants to look like Sean O'Pry. I'm talking about, you know, if you've got a super, super recessed jaw, maybe you were like a really bad mouth breather growing up and your airway is completely cooked to the point where you have sleep apnea and it's just not functional whatsoever. Is a jaw surgery like something to consider? Well, I'll let your, I'll like, I'll like, let's your doctor and your maxillofacial surgeon answer that question for you. But yeah, so that's kind of the goal. It's just about fixing the phalos. If you're 18 or 25 or 35 or 45 or even 55, does your advice change? Certainly, yes. You're not really going to be able to have like this insane control over your development. Do something like keep your growth plates open for a longer period of time by taking like an aromatase inhibitor, that won't work past a certain age. Past what age? It's going to depend, but somewhere around like 17, 18. It's usually when male stop growing. But I mean, for some people, it could be as late as 20, 21 or even earlier than that,

Starting point is 00:27:06 you know, so just it really depends. So if you're 45 and you're physically just cooked, wouldn't making more money simply have the best result? No, because think about it, right? Going from a six out of 10 to an 8 out of 10 is, you know, more of a marginal thing than, but it's going to have a huge, huge result, you know, much more achievable than going from making $100,000 to a million dollars. That's not going to be even close to achievable for the average person. And it really isn't going to do much. Women are super able to perceive income. And like, there's a lot of memes about, like, what is,

Starting point is 00:27:50 your average salary requirement when dating. And like the answers will just be like so absurd. Do you think they really believe that or do you think those clips are just selectively picking the people who say ridiculous numbers? I think it's a true belief, you know, because I've, you know, I typically ask girls, like, you know, what's a good amount of money for a guy to make a month, you know, for you to qualify them as someone you'd want to date? And I was doing a stream of the girl last night. We said 500K a month. But that's, you're also in Miami. She's not from here. She's a regular.

Starting point is 00:28:25 Where is she from? How old is she? Like Maryland. She's 18. She doesn't with you though. That's, I think that that is. It's like a random girl from like Maryland or something. I would like to get a different poll, like a pole on the street.

Starting point is 00:28:38 I'd be so curious. Dude, I could do it. If it would vary from like Las Vegas to Miami to Los Angeles to like, I bet most would be, my bet is most would say a hundred. $150,000 a year. We'll see if I can motivate myself before this post to go out. I'll ask five girls just some place in Vegas and I'll stitch it in right here. Yeah, that would be incredible. I'd be curious, it could be a Miami thing, quite honestly, or an L.A. thing.

Starting point is 00:29:05 Vegas also probably is not the best place. The other thing, was she on stream? Yeah. So I feel like that also gets, like the higher she says, the more people pay attention to her, the more people talk about her. And so it benefits her to say like, oh, yeah, a million dollars. a month minimum to date me and then you get banter back and forth that keeps you on stream longer versus if you're saying 8,000 a month, you'd be like, all right, and then move on to the next one.

Starting point is 00:29:30 Yeah, but I think once again, like a lot of girls like don't really know like how much things cost, like how much it costs to live in these big cities. So there's just not a huge grasp on like what's going on, you know, because there's a lot of people that bullshit also. It's like you can lease or finance like a Corvette, which is a $100,000 car and be on car payments for eight years. And a girl will think you're rich, right? But sometimes it's not the case. Would you not believe a girl if you started dating her and she said, yeah, I wouldn't care if you weren't making this kind of money? Like, if you were making 5K month, I'd be fine with it. Like, I enjoy hanging out with you.

Starting point is 00:30:16 I don't think I would because it's like, you know, maybe you're not immediately spending, like, all this money going on, like, these super expensive dates. And then the girl's like, oh, you know, you see, I'm not with you for the money. But, like, you know, then we're living in, you know, like crazy apartments going on, like, private jets. And, you know, that, that's just the environment she gets used to, you know. So it's not the immediate, like, what she's spending on her credit card. It's more so just, like, the environment. But what if she wasn't used to that? What if it was, it was just like 5K a month is all she's experienced.

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Starting point is 00:33:55 experienced? She says she's fine with that. Would you believe that? It really just depends on how old the girl is, where she's from, because 5K a month, you're not going to really be able to live in Miami for that much. How much do you need to live in Miami? I wouldn't want to live anywhere near Miami for less than $10,000 a month. $10,000 a month? Yeah, I think that's a good answer because I think that rent is probably going to start around 2 to 3K, maybe in like Edgewater, like good luck in Brickle. Like you're not living in Brickle, you're not living in downtown for, you know, less than than 5 to 6K, you know, even for like some of these one or two bedroom apartments.

Starting point is 00:34:39 And then you have your car payment, you have groceries and, you know, God forbid you want to put away a single dollar in your savings account. then it's just not worth living here, you know? And I see a lot of people who have this online income, you know, they start making a little bit of money and they move to Miami. It's like, why? You don't need to be here. There's no reason for that whatsoever.

Starting point is 00:35:01 You might as well live somewhere with a super low cost of living and put some money away. At what point are people chasing improvements that no one will realistically notice? Well, it certainly gets there, like within a few years. of looks maxing because if you look at it like a pie chart right you're going to get about 70% of what's able to be accomplished from your body fat percentage from lean maxing and maybe throw another 20 towards um like your coloring you know that's going to be like how tan you are your contrast dyeing your hair whatever and then maybe a little bit is going to be your physique um and then your skin quality and once you like achieve these things it's really becomes more about

Starting point is 00:35:45 maintaining than like finding the next endeavor. So you would say if you were to give broad advice to the average person watching this right now, which most people are probably not going to be of the looks maxing community, it's just guys between the ages of 18 and 35. The most broad advice that you would give would just say get lean. 10 to 12% body fat. Yep. And creating contrast is a key thing as well. That's what I'm talking about. Your coloring. So you think it would be beneficial for me to probably dye my eyebrows? No, I think your eyebrows are quite dark. But I think you would have a lot more contrast to your face, you know, with your blue eyes if you're more tan. That's also going to create more contrast with your sclera, which is the whites of your eyes.

Starting point is 00:36:24 See, I would be worried. I actually started taking eyedrops because I did notice that I look a little weird when my eyes are all red. I think it looks better to have like clear white eyes. It's a health indicator. Yeah. But the only thing is that I'm so worried about getting my face tan because I have one sunspot and I just don't want more to appear. Yeah, I mean... You'd say Melano Tan is probably. No, Melano Tan would probably exacerbate that. that. So there's different laser treatments or things of that nature to try to remove those. It looks like you have, you know, post-inflammatory marks. So like hyperpigmentation. Oh, yeah. This is melasma.

Starting point is 00:37:02 Okay. Oh, all right. That's, yeah, that's going to be a little bit more difficult to treat. So you notice when you get super tan that exacerbates like it looks more obvious. And I take hydroquinone to like remove it. Okay. Yeah. How long has that I been there? It's gotten worse over the... I mean, not worse. It's kind of stayed the same, but maybe three or four years at this point. Yeah, then that's certainly something to consider.

Starting point is 00:37:23 I mean, you could always throw like an SPF that's super high and make sure it has like PA plus plus plus in that region. You know, because it would almost blend in if the rest of your face was more tan. So that's something to consider. I really like trying to be as striking as possible. And, you know, that contrast with the tan. between your sclera and your teeth, it's really important. What causes that? Is that just being in the sun without sunscreen?

Starting point is 00:37:50 Yeah, and it's the thinning of your skin as well. Because you have it kind of on like the subdermal or whatever it is, like the skin underneath. And then as you get older, you typically lose facial fat. And then as it gets closer, it just tends to push out more. And the sun will also exacerbate the coloring. It's not exactly losing facial fat. What starts to occur is you lose elastin, which keeps everything in place. and gravity takes course and it migrates down.

Starting point is 00:38:16 So that's why you notice the fat starts to accumulate on these folds, the nasolabial folds, and you start to get jowls a little later into life. That's just gravity and last and loss. So you know what's funny. I was in, you'd probably appreciate this. I was in Korea, this is the first time I've mentioned this on the podcast in March. And I knew that they were popular for skin care.

Starting point is 00:38:37 And so I thought, I'm going to book myself a skincare appointment. You know, maybe they can laser this thing off. I had no idea what I was getting into. showed up to the appointment, and I was with my friend. My friend's like 10 years older than me, 15. And he was like going through everything. They were like, you need this, this, this, this is this. What do you want?

Starting point is 00:38:54 And he said everything. And then they turned to me and she said, what do you want? This, this is this. And I was like, I mean, if he's getting everything, I guess I'll get everything too. And then I go to the Apple pay. And it was in the foreign currency. And so I didn't really know. Tap the Apple pay $3,500.

Starting point is 00:39:08 Okay. And they ended up, I was in there for, they kept it open past closing for, for about eight hours, the entire procedure, everything. And they were lasering everything on my face. They did several different ones. One was actually to move the muscles up, like you said, to prevent jowls. And then they also did another one that was like burning off small wrinkles on your face. It was a laser treatment, I believe.

Starting point is 00:39:32 It was a laser treatment. I did that as well. I got collagen injected and Botox injected. And then one other thing injected as well. I don't really remember. You did Botox? Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:40 But I also had, one of them felt like they were like, like, like, pull. with strings. Oh, that's called PTO threads. Yeah. I don't know if I got the strings, though. It just felt like they were. It was like they were putting the needle in and then moving it around. Yeah, that would be PEDO.

Starting point is 00:39:52 Wow. And like I literally almost quit probably a dozen times within the session because it was so uncomfortable. And I also was so frustrated that I didn't know what I was signing. Like honest to God, I had no idea what I was signing up for. Jack sent me a photo and he had the numbing cream on for like a full hour. I had blood like on my face because they injected so many different things. I saw on the next day. They also, microndeling, they did that.

Starting point is 00:40:14 Yeah. There's a lot of things that are cope in, like, the whole med spa world. But micrneedling is great, really good for your collagen, hair growth. You know, there's certain types of lasers that are a little less effective. But usually the more invasive ones that have a longer recovery time, like they do work, like ablative CO2 laser. Like, yeah, you're going to have to stay out of the sun and stay inside probably about three, four weeks. But the results are going to be, like, tremendous compared to, like,

Starting point is 00:40:42 the fractal CO2 laser that you heal in a week. It's results aren't as pronounced, you know. How much time do you typically spend researching all this stuff? Because you're understanding of pharmacology, how different things interact with, you know, foreign substances with your body. It's really impressive, especially just like being 20 years old, not to slight the age or anything. But I'm curious, how do you do all of this research? And how much time do you spend? Well, it's, you know, years of accumulation, right? So in high school, I, I wasn't really a social guy. I was kind of just on my computer all day,

Starting point is 00:41:16 like reading about the stuff. And, you know, even to this day, say, I'm probably spending like an hour, just looking into new things, reading new literature that comes out. When you say literature, are you actually looking at, like, studies and stuff? Or is it like Reddit and Twitter?

Starting point is 00:41:31 Yeah, yeah, mostly literature, because Reddit is just like anecdotes. And I think that's important, certainly, to research, you know, people's experience with different things because it's important, but it's more so about understanding the safety of things, you know, control groups, and, you know, the actual mechanism, how the drug works, you need to understand these things really, really proficiently before you start looking

Starting point is 00:41:59 into what other people on Reddit are doing. So if someone wanted to try GLP-1s or peptides or any of the things that you've mentioned, like the hard-maxing stuff, how many hours of research before they do it, should they really? I think you could get a pretty sufficient understanding of how GLP1's work in a few hours. It's not the most complex thing in the world. And even further than that, you're going to be relying on medical experts, right? You should be going to your doctor about this kind of stuff. Reda is not an FDA-approved treatment yet, but it will be, right? And so for now, you're going to get prescribed probably Manjaro, it's your hepatide.

Starting point is 00:42:43 So you're doing your research, you're understanding how it works, you're understanding how to reconstitute the peptide, and then you're having a doctor with years and years of medical training to oversee it. And I'm pretty confident in talking about these peptides and recommending them, because, you know, it's very, very difficult to pick up on peptides, right? even if you injected the entire vial of radisher tide or something like that, you know, it's not like that's the lethal dose. You know, nothing really would happen.

Starting point is 00:43:14 What looks maxing advice that's out there right now is actually harmful? I've seen a lot of different stuff about people installing dental appliances, like screwing in like an MSC themselves. I've seen people self-performing like gino removal. surgery, like literally cutting open their glandular tissue and removing it. What?

Starting point is 00:43:43 You've seen this? I've never seen videos, but I know what gyno is. Oh my God. I've seen one where people cut their medial canthus with a knife that's like really bad. So it's mostly people performing these surgery that are supposed to be done by professionals. Or really what it is is just making decisions

Starting point is 00:44:00 without consulting professionals. Correct. Yeah. So most of what I about, I always say this has to be done under the supervision of a doctor because people aren't going to understand how to use something like an HGH earlier into their life. And they're just not going to give a fuck to do their research. They're just going to randomly pin it. And if they don't understand about their blood glucose levels, they're going to eat a bunch of carbs and then take hg. And then, you know, they're going to be pre-diabatic pretty soon, right? So whereas a doctor would come in and make sure to clarify that and make sure that that they're going to be a lot of the

Starting point is 00:44:34 they understand fully how to use these things. And then, you know, maybe they could get some results. Or same thing with testosterone. If someone just starts a randomly pinning test without realizing that it's going to convert to DHT and give them a severe hair loss, then, you know, they're going to be screwed, right? And they're actually going to look, min, in a lot of cases. Do you think someone could become less attractive simply because they're trying too hard? Yeah, most definitely.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Yeah. And where do you draw that line? A lot of it comes from, like, fitness advice. right like people will say caloric surplus um 500 milligrams of testosterone um that's going to make you fat and acne ridden and bald right if that's if that's where it ends right but maybe just a t rt uh so that you're more energetic throughout the day uh so your face masculinizes a little bit in your body uh like sort of recomps that's a lot more uh of of a looks max than the traditional bodybuilder blast the gutteroids, eat 12 meals a day type advice.

Starting point is 00:45:37 What about the act of trying too hard? Like the fact that you care so much about it makes you less attractive, only because you care. Even if your decisions and mentality are not born out of insecurity, that's how a lot of people will perceive it. And I think they see insecurity as an unattractive thing. Yeah, no, absolutely. But I think, you know, you have to just realize that you can make observations about the

Starting point is 00:46:01 world, even if you're being fully objective and your reasoning was different research they did on dating and, you know, how the top 20% of profiles get all the attention. And if you, you know, looked at research about like the interview process and how less qualified applicants who are better looking are getting these jobs. And then you decided, hey, I'm going to look max. This makes sense. That's not insecurity. The average person's not going to be capable. of being an entrepreneur and having some insane AI or tech startup, that's successful. Then wouldn't you think the people that are able to do that are already? They're outliers.

Starting point is 00:46:45 They're genetic outliers with typically above average IQ. Do you think people should aspire to do that? It's genetic, you know. That's why I like all the advice about don't go to college. college is both. It's like, yeah, maybe you were able to transcend the requirements of having a college degree because you're super creative, super innovative, and extremely smart, but the average person is not. The average person's pretty fine. What do you think your IQ is? I wouldn't, you know, get into that. Have you taken tests and stuff? Yeah, but it's, unless it's said an in-person

Starting point is 00:47:26 certified testing center, it doesn't matter because, um, People will spam these tests, which improves their score, and they'll just take them until they're happy. You know, so it really isn't. You wouldn't speculate? No. No. So I asked ChatGBT, I said, hey, based on our conversations, what's my IQ? Wouldn't give it.

Starting point is 00:47:46 You have to prompt it multiple times. But the fifth time, it says, okay, your IQ is, what was it? 138. I thought it was 130-something. It was 128. It was 128. And the 19-12-gram, I'm like, I think that's inaccurate. it, I think that 128

Starting point is 00:48:00 is like the perfect IQ to tell someone that they are. It is not so high to the point where you're a genius. It's not low to the point of being discouraged of like... It placates you a little bit. Yeah. It placates you and kind of keeps you on it. It makes it believable. When it takes over it

Starting point is 00:48:16 and it humbles you. That's a few standard deviations above the average. So that, no, that's certainly... So what's interesting? I had jackass the same things. And it wouldn't tell, wouldn't tell. And then finally... 128. So we both got the exact same number, which, let's be honest, guys.

Starting point is 00:48:33 It's not. I think we tried this with someone else who also got a one. Yeah, it was Justin Atlin, and he also got what 28. So the three out of three, 128. Everyone asked Chad GBT and don't say anything that would inflate it. And then comment whatever it tells you your IQ is down below. I'm very curious to see. And you just had to say, estimate an IQ, do your best.

Starting point is 00:48:52 Be honest. Be honest. Just give me a number. Do it. You have to keep prompting it to give you a number. It's just so funny about like the whole IQ testing stuff is like you never meet anyone whose IQ is according to them less than 110 it seems like. So that's why it's kind of true. Well also have you ever, you know, I've never met someone. But maybe those aren't the people that were hanging out. Those are also not the people that are intellectually curious. And so like if you are under 100, intelligence isn't something that you're really considering on a daily basis. Whereas if you are smarter, you like observe it and you notice it more that it makes you curious about it. But yeah, that's true. I've never heard anyone ever say like, yeah, I'm like 93. Yeah, no, exactly. So I always just, I get asked that question a fair bit and I'll always just refuse it because I think it's just a silly, you know, game that people play with themselves.

Starting point is 00:49:45 But you would agree that IQ is very important. Extremely, yeah. And do you know of any ways to IQ Max? Yeah, like you could create more brain synapses with something like diHexia. or cerebrilicin. So just, you know, any form of neurogenesis. Yeah. And there's different neutropics that are going to, you know, improve just like how long you could, you know,

Starting point is 00:50:11 how long your attention span is and your productivity. So there is things that you can do to like IQ max, but it's a little bit nuanced. What's more attractive to a woman, more knowledge or more intelligence? More intelligence. is more attractive than knowledge. Really, I think knowledge is. Because knowledge to me just seems practical. Intelligence, maybe I'm just misinterpreting

Starting point is 00:50:35 is more like what you know about the world. But knowledge is like, to me, just seems like you could apply it. Like, I have knowledge about this thing and this thing and this thing, and I can apply it today. Knowledge is like understanding of things. Yeah, they'd be vice versa. Yeah, I would say it was probably vice versa. Like, knowledge is like, like, I can recite every state and their capitals.

Starting point is 00:50:57 And then intelligence is like how well you pattern recognized and like the decision making engine behind things. It's not necessarily like you could be incredibly intelligent as a five-year-old. It's hard to be very knowledgeable as a five-year-old. Yeah, right. And like maybe you could tell like cool stories about ancient Greece to a girl on a date. But at the end of the day, you're just. They like that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:20 No, they don't. Well, whatever. Just, you know, talk about current events. but you know eventually it gets to the point where if your decision-making and your understanding of you know just the world is is severely damaged then you know all these cool stories and little facts that you know don't really mean anything are there any cosmetic surgeries out there that you believe are just overrated pedo threads are pretty cope i've experimented with them and they're not so great.

Starting point is 00:51:54 I would say filler is probably the worst one. Filler is actually terrible. So filler is actually going to cosmetically descend people in a lot of cases because it's meant to replicate soft tissue. It's not meant to replicate bone. So if you're just injecting absurd amounts of filler into your jaw and your cheekbones

Starting point is 00:52:12 to make them appear more prominent, doesn't work. It's just going to migrate and not have the aesthetic result that you want after about two weeks. Have you ever put filler in? Never, never will, never would. What about your nose job?

Starting point is 00:52:27 That was something I saw, and I'm seeing it now. I don't notice much of a difference. Yep, that's the point. It was intended to be a super non-advasive thing. I didn't have any modification of the bone up here. It was just an ailerplasty, so really just about reducing the width of my nostrils by a couple millimeters. So when I was seeing clips of you after the nose job, I think that they were being edited.

Starting point is 00:52:55 Because you looked like sad and it looked like botched. And I was like, oh, man, like this, you know. That's what happened. But then I was surprised because I remember what we met, how meticulous and calculated you seemed to be about things. I'm like, there's no way that he like would go in and bought. Like if anyone was going to botch surgery, I feel like it wouldn't be. Right. You'd have too much writing on it and you'd plan too much.

Starting point is 00:53:14 And it looked botched. But yeah, in person, I was very surprised how actually it looks very similar to how you were. Yeah, no, I wasn't trying to have a completely, you know, different face. It was meant to just fix a small failo of mine, which was my, you know, mouth-to-nose ratio. My nose was a little bit too wide with, you know, relative to how wide my mouth was. And I improved it, right? So, of course, the day, you know, the week after you get a rhinoplastie, you're going to be swollen and it's not going to look as complete. And it takes about a year, by the way, for the swelling to fully go down and for the final

Starting point is 00:53:53 result. So right now it's been about five weeks. So it only look better and better. Do you have any more surgeries coming up? Now, one of the frustrating things about a regular debit card is that it's completely passive. You swipe, money leaves your account, and that's the whole relationship. Nothing ever comes back to you.

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Starting point is 00:55:46 Why is that? Well, I spammed. Like, I did like a lot of stuff at once. That's probably why I also looked like really weird is I got wisdom teeth removal right after that. So my face was all like puffy and bloated and my nose had a cast and I had surgery on my ears. So they were all black and blue. Um, so people were like, wow, this guy looks all fucked up. Uh, but I just needed to recover.

Starting point is 00:56:09 Are you going to get braces? Uh, yeah, I haven't visited. the line currently in my pocket i just take it out for interviews what would you say men look for in women uh i would say that men look for women who are modest um and who sort of are a good reflection on them um right if your girl is just like you know going and being obnoxious poor mannered uh when you're out to dinner for example that's like also a reflection on you even if you're the most respectful person in the world. So it's, it's an, your girlfriend is an extension of you and vice versa.

Starting point is 00:56:52 Yeah. If Henry Cavill is like the number one most attractive man or, yeah, people talk about Matt Boomer versus Henry Cavill, but one of the two. I mean, most people would isolate it to both of them. I'm curious, who is the most traditionally attractive woman? It's funny because like female models get paid. so much more than male models do. And yet, you know, a lot more of the discussion, just amongst the looks maxing community and on these forums would be more male oriented.

Starting point is 00:57:27 Not necessarily because it's like anything to do with, you know, it being gay or whatever. Just people were talking about men's aesthetics and it's a men's aesthetics community at the end of the day. women could looksmax just as men can, but looksmaxing was kind of created as like a more male-centered space. But I would say that there's a couple of the earlier 2000s Victoria's Secret models could be Tom Brady's ex-wife could be one of the highest scoring in terms of facial harmony, but maybe some people have a preference for like a different phenotype than hers. but I would say she's probably up there. So that's interesting.

Starting point is 00:58:09 You just mentioned some people have a preference for a different phenotype, but the whole idea of looks maxing is it's not about preference for phenotype. It's just objective, science-based, you know, attraction. Yeah, so maybe you weigh coloring out a little bit heavier. I think that's where being subjective kind of comes into it. You know, so like preferring like Adriana Lima, for example, has worse facial ratios, but she's more striking, right? And she's got like these super piercing blue eyes, really tan skin and brown hair,

Starting point is 00:58:45 versus Giselle has like, you know, more pale skin and blonde hair. So it's just not as much of a like immediate contrast, like striking look. So, but both are very close in terms of harmony percentages. I would be interested to see, you know, how people get the outline of like a perfect face and then they match up a man's and move it around and see who's close to it, what a woman's face would look like and how, geometrically speaking,

Starting point is 00:59:10 an attractive woman should be from an attractive man because, you know, you talk about the one-to-one ratio or you talk about the strikingness, you talk about, you know, having like a sharp jaw line. It's a lot different. But if you applied the same things from a man to a woman, like you... It's not even close.

Starting point is 00:59:26 You would have like a relatively masculine-looking woman. Yeah, so women are, according to the golden ratio, was supposed to have a bit shorter of a face. So their midface would be closer to like, you know, a 1.1 rather than males being one. And then, you know, they would also have a bit softer of a jaw, softer of a chin, and not as much height to it. So these are some of the differences. Does social media distort what men find attractive?

Starting point is 00:59:55 Yeah, just from pornography, I would say. You don't think by any other way? I mean, maybe editing. So one thing that I noticed, and I don't want to get in any trouble by mentioning this, I think that Elisa Liu is actually very, I think she's very pretty. However, I would argue she probably does not fit your scientific definition of what, like, objective beauty is to a T. Like, you know, let's just say the average consensus is going to say she's like a 10 out of 10, but then you probably would argue, well, based on science, she would be, you know, a seven or a six and a half or something like that. But, you know, There's no doubt that the amount of attention that she got after her performance at the Olympics, I have never seen the amount of, like, edits. I didn't even watch her performance, but my For You page, like every fifth reel, I feel like I was seeing her dancing or her at some Academy Award or whatever it was.

Starting point is 01:00:50 And I would check the comments because, you know, I have to pay attention to these things. Of course. You have to click it. And the amount of attention that she was getting, the amount of edits that I would see about guys, you know, like fan girling over her. whatever, like admiring her saying she's like the most perfect beautiful woman or whatever. I have never seen anything like it. But yet she doesn't quite fit.

Starting point is 01:01:09 And so I'm curious how social media can distort something like that or if there are other things outside of beauty that make a man attracted to a woman, they don't even know. I think that's just always going to be a new phenomenon, like that you have a girl, like, you know, who just comes up. And like you said, maybe not the most perfect in terms of her facial harmony. but, you know, maybe she just has like a girl next door kind of vibe to her. You know, it's not maybe typical that athletes are, you know, model looking and extremely attractive. So when you see one that is, it's like kind of a shock, I would estimate.

Starting point is 01:01:49 But regardless, people rating her 10 out of 10, they're not saying, oh, wow, she's completely perfect according to science. It's more so, in my opinion, them saying my life would be perfect if I had this girl. How much is it, though, that men just want what other men want? I wouldn't say it's that important. I would say that's more of a female characteristic. Really? I do think there is a bit of a hurt mentality. So that's called pre-selection, right?

Starting point is 01:02:16 Correct. That's more applicable to women. It seems like men would be just as susceptible, that if all these guys are like, yo, we like her, and everyone's competing, I think that makes that person more attractive. Just like it would be like a car or a house, or a watch or some other thing that everyone collectively wants. It just makes it more desirable.

Starting point is 01:02:37 Well, if everyone is, you know, I think a girl's hot and she's dated a lot of like top celebrities, I think in a lot of cases that would probably be something that'd be not so positive. Whereas like the pre-selection of women being intrigued, if they see a hot girl walking with a guy, like, what does this guy have going on for him? So that's a lot more of a feminine thing, certainly. I do want to mention you said that when people say that she is a 10 out of 10, then they really mean that they think their life would be perfect if they were with her.

Starting point is 01:03:13 But wouldn't that be more important than just looks? And so then you have to break, would you agree with that or no? It's more so just like because like two-thirds of males, 18 or 21 having had six and six months. So that's just like a loneliness thing. But if you were to say what's more important, like a person's scientific matching of 10 out of 10 beauty or what the general public would, things that would improve their life to the point of being perfect

Starting point is 01:03:44 if they were to be with someone, which one would you say is more important? The objective looks because a lot of people are just rating these girls super highly out of desperation. like, you know what I mean? If you could actually sit down and analyze the face and not just like, oh, my God, like, my life would be perfect. I'd be so happy to be with this girl. The answer starts to change a lot.

Starting point is 01:04:09 But that could also be different if you know the person, right? And if you get to know them and then you see them, oh, wow, my life would be perfect if I am with this person. I think that that is just a desperation thing because most guys can't get fucking girlfriends, you know. I mean, I agree that a lot of guys are having trouble getting girlfriends. friends. I'm just trying to understand this because I do think that now from recalling back to like the people that I've liked in my life, like, I knew that they weren't perfectly physically looking or like even the most attractive person at the school. I just figured, wow, I really like their personality. I think that that was what a lot of people. No, yeah, yeah. And that's also a thing

Starting point is 01:04:43 that certainly plays into it. Could be like the parisocial relationship, whatever. But that would be a ridiculous claim to say that dating is only, you know, superficial and, you know, shallow towards looks and personality means nothing. Of course a girl is going to be more attractive to you and you're going to like her a lot more if her personality is what you're looking for. If she's gotten certain traits that you admire, maybe she's the same religion as you, whatever. So maybe people could resonate in that sense. So they're applying these different positives within her looks rating. I think could be the problem is it's everything is being a bit distorted on like what trade is actually influencing the person to rate them this high. So you're saying

Starting point is 01:05:29 that someone could see a woman is like a seven, but then just be distorted because all these other qualities make her a 10. Right. What I think is like how do you make yourself as datable as possible? But then I would probably, you and I would agree on the common thread of like, well, what would be a big component of being datable? It would probably be physical attraction. What I would say is being as well-rounded as possible. So any metric really that you can think of, whether it be status, whether it be your career, your income, your looks, you know, your knowledge even. So really everything. So just every single stat that you can possibly max, do it. That's how you become datable. So you have a girlfriend now. How did you pick her as a girlfriend?

Starting point is 01:06:17 Kind of just met her one night and then she moved in like a few days later. A few days? How'd you meet her? At my, at the club. And I brought her and her friend back to them. Both of them? Yeah. At the same time?

Starting point is 01:06:41 Yeah, and I liked her better. How did that go with a friend? Do you just, when did you make the decision? Like, immediately. The friend had like a weird smell to her. Did you tell the friend that she smelled? Yeah. And what did she say?

Starting point is 01:06:59 Just, uh, sorry. What was the smell? I know Jack has questions. What was the smell? Was it like a B.O. smell or was it just like a B.O. like post club, you know. Like, it's understandable. I don't really have a problem with it. Like, I'm sure my, my,

Starting point is 01:07:15 My, you know, balls have smelled like 10 times worse, you know, so. But that was enough for you that the one is like not, but the other one didn't smell. So that was the differentiating factor. Well, that just like allowed me to like, like, further the communications, you know, to her. But it's just like, it's a stupid story. But, yeah, I mean, I think I've had a girlfriend throughout the entirety of my career. Wait, so we were, I still am not quite through with this. So you brought them both back.

Starting point is 01:07:44 How is their relationship now? Is it fractured? No. They're chilling. Makes girls better friends. That's why I was asked two girls. I'm like, are you guys friends? They're like, yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:53 I'm like, do you want to be really good friends? That is an insane line. How often does that work? I'd say probably like, I don't know, maybe a dozen times. What's the ratio, though? Like, how many times have you asked that and it doesn't work versus it works? 50-50, probably. So you've asked about?

Starting point is 01:08:14 about two dozen times. Yeah. That is, I mean, that is, like, insane batting average. Well,

Starting point is 01:08:20 usually, like, you have to kind of know, like, like, you're not just shooting at every girl. It's not the stuff.

Starting point is 01:08:25 It's not the stuff. You can tell, like, a little bit if a girl's in, her friend or, like, with it. But is this happening on stream?

Starting point is 01:08:34 Like, obviously not, like, coming back here, but, like, when you're approaching and asking these questions, is that on stream?

Starting point is 01:08:40 Like, how much does it help you to have a camera? It actually hurts me quite a bit. Because girls want to, like, get a clip off and, like, get famous from, like, rejecting clav. And it's like, I know the chick's going, like, you know, if the camera's not here. So I've done, like, streams where, you know, I had, like, a hidden cam, like, from across the street.

Starting point is 01:09:00 And I'm, like, cold approaching or just standing there. And, like, girls are a lot more receptive when there's no camera. And so the morning after, you just kicked out of front. You say, hey, sorry, not interested. The 10 minutes after. 10 minutes after. Yeah. And she didn't feel any, you know, regret or, like, upset about it or she was pretty chilling.

Starting point is 01:09:22 Yeah, I mean. Do you still see her around? No. No. She was, has a boyfriend and was cheating. No. I didn't know. I always, I always will kick out the girl.

Starting point is 01:09:35 Like, I find out they're cheating, you know. Like, I'm not always down for that. But it usually just happens that, like, I'll find out. find out after. Wait a second. I saw a clip. No, she got it. What?

Starting point is 01:09:48 She's still with him. Yeah, she got the dude's name tatted. I was like an apology. No. See, that's Miami, dude. Holy. That is Miami. And that's why I can't live here.

Starting point is 01:09:58 That's just, that is insane. Now, I remember seeing one clip of you, man. You were at the bar and you were talking to this girl. And the guy came up to you and he was begging you, like not to get her number. Yeah, bro. Is this real? Yeah, that's like, that's.

Starting point is 01:10:13 real life that was in new york um and it's like if you have to like beg your girl like oh stop or you know go up to other guys be like stop talking to my girl it's like bro that's not your girl like she's going oh that would break my heart and then i like i don't think that would be recoverable i don't think i could ever look at her the same dude i mean if if your girl's like openly doing that yeah like entertaining other conversations even if like i would it be like yeah like all right no problem in you know like why that that relationship is cooked even if you said that's cooked yeah so it's almost like anytime like that happens like some dudes will get mad and like crash out on like their girl or the dude but it's almost just like well i would see it as if that happened to me i'd be like

Starting point is 01:10:57 yo thank god like i found this out sooner or later sooner the better you find out about that yeah for real you know so wow there's no point to get mad about it should be like all right like you know that's that's the way of the world. Do you know what happened between them? Nah. I still can't get over the... The girl getting a tattoo. Like, as an apology.

Starting point is 01:11:19 Why do you think he didn't leave her? And does he know what was you specifically? I mean, it's on a fucking live stream. But the thing is, like, people would rather, like, put up with this shit than not have a girlfriend and be lonely. So that's kind of, like, how it goes. And the thing that really, like, helps you in a relationship is if a girl knows, like, that you have access to other women and, like, there's other options out there for you. Because she's not going to, like, you know, try to walk all over you and be entertaining other guys because then you're just going to break up with her, right?

Starting point is 01:11:55 And then go on to the next girl. If it was on live stream, though, wouldn't she know that this is going to get back to her boyfriend? She probably knew he would, like, you know, take her. That's probably why she'd think. Did it? Do you think she could cheat on him again and then they could stay together? For sure, dude. Yeah, girls.

Starting point is 01:12:11 What's your advice to this guy? You got to just like realize that you're better off being single than being in a situation where your heart is constantly broken and a girl is just completely like all over you. Do you think that relationships are only ever cat and mouses? And you would always advocate, hey, the guy has to be the mouse running away and you know, you always have the cat chasing it. So like you have to have your options open. And then women are probably saying like in their whatever they used to communicate, like men on Reddit, women on whatever it is.

Starting point is 01:12:45 And they are probably saying, yeah, you have to be the mouse. You got to, you know, keep your guy in check, never show too much excitement. Yeah, man. I just hate like getting into the whole like dating dynamics thing because it's just like the red pill and like a lot of the talking points. be said by the same people who are just like all like fuck horrors like all this you know um a lot of misogynistic um talking points and just like all over women uh even though some of it is true you know about just like framing the relationship where do you draw the line between objectivity and misogyny if there's a statistic out there something about the amount of of sexual partners

Starting point is 01:13:31 uh either gender will have on average like in you're citing these things statistics. Like, I don't think that really makes you, uh, misogynistic. I think that just like makes you, uh, going over, you know, the state of the dating market. But if you're going out and you're only like spreading these facts about like how women are, are acting and, you know, with no uh, calling of attention towards like the fact that maybe this generation of men isn't the greatest, uh, either. A lot of them are financially dispositioned. So it kind of makes sense for women to only want to go for like the top profiles like i think you just kind of need to realize what's wrong with both sides what do you think of myron gains i've been on myron show a lot you know and i've i've watched

Starting point is 01:14:17 a lot of his streams i think that you know a lot of what he says um it's true you know and i've been on his his late night show the after hours with a lot of girls and he'll talk about a lot of things that are really relevant to dating today do you think that he's a misogynist? I think misogyny, like in my definition, would be like a hatred for women. Like an in-cell or something? Yeah, I don't think Myron hates women. I think he just realizes that there's a difference between genders and that gender roles are important, right? I think he says that our men are the leaders in their relationship and women are there in more of like an emotional supportive role. I think that's a fair take to give. So how long have you and your girlfriend

Starting point is 01:15:06 been dating since April. And are you guys monogamous? You know, I'd be lying if I said I haven't gotten with another girl, you know. Are you, you're open with her with that, right? Yeah, I don't lie. So she knows. Yeah. What does she think of that?

Starting point is 01:15:22 I mean, like, at the end of the day, there's a difference between, like, sex and love, right? I think women can kind of understand to a degree that men could just, like, have so the random girl and it's just a release. It's just like physical stimulation and there's nothing more to it than that. Um, so I think that there's a bit of an understanding. Do you think having the door open and always having options and women available decreases the intensity at which you can love your girlfriend? It's possible, but like, you know, it's not something that I like do or like intend on it. It's just sometimes like I go to the club, I get drunk and like it happens. But that sounds like something I want to be doing.

Starting point is 01:16:08 You know, I don't want to be doing like this just whole degenerate, like, you know, drinking and going out all the time. So that's just me being, like, immature. But it's not something I see last thing. So that's more like a lack of restraint or willpower to me being an idiot, like adjusting to fame, you know? And did that cause hiccups in the relationship that you were doing that? Or did she kind of assume that that was probably going to happen?

Starting point is 01:16:32 Probably assumed it just based on the circumstances of, of, you know, the introduction. Would you get a tattoo of her name to apologize to her? I'd never get a tattoo. How would you feel if she asked if she should get a tattoo of your name? I'm very against tattoos. But she has tattoos, I saw. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:50 That doesn't mean I like it. Would you pay to remove her tattoos? Uh, I don't know. Probably not, but it's just not something that I prefer. Do you still approach women? Yeah. And what is the goal of these approaches? seeing if I still got it.

Starting point is 01:17:07 How many women do you think you've approached in your life? Oh, probably 10,000? 10,000 women? I've approached, like, in a single night, like, probably 200 girls before. And did you notice, like, the 150th was better than the 20th? Yeah, that's usually how it goes. There's not, like, a diminishing return because I get tired of talking after some time. It's more like club, like approaches, like,

Starting point is 01:17:34 Yeah, just a couple words and either yes or no. What do you know? What, yes or no to what? Whatever. Like, you know, I'm... Gotta go get a drink or something like that. Something like that. I'm pretty straight, straight up with it.

Starting point is 01:17:47 But, um... Straight up with what I'm saying. I'm like, you know? Oh, like, do you want to, like, get to know each other better? Yeah, something like that. But, um... Something like that's... Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:58 You're always like, something like that. Well, what is it? Jeff wants to know the line. Do you want to come back to? to my place. So you're basically that you asked that off-rid. Yeah, usually. And so you failed 199 times before the 200th. Did you end into success that night? That was in college. I get a lot of girls who say yes, but then like I'm doing like a bunch of, and like I don't want to end my stream right then and there. If every single time like a girl said yes to that, like I'll go home and like,

Starting point is 01:18:27 you know, sleep with you right now. My stream might end after 45 minutes. I'd get the result that I'm looking for but what you said you did this in college. I feel like the stream doesn't need to end there. You'd be a different website. So you did this in college that without the stream. Yeah, I just used to spam cold approach. Okay, so now that you've cold approached probably 10,000 women. Yeah, I've gotten rejected more times than.

Starting point is 01:18:48 What is the worst rejection you've ever experienced? I mean, like, you only get really bad rejections if, like, you don't understand body language or if, like, some dudes are, are pretty weird. Like, they'll get rejected by a girl and, like, it's an obvious. obvious like IOD indication of disinterest and they'll still like continue the conversation. So what's an obvious IOD? Just like a really unreceptive like a posture like turning away from you like that. What's a non-obvious IOD?

Starting point is 01:19:21 Just saying like, do you want to go home with me and like the girl says, oh, I'm with my friends? It's like if a girl really wanted to go home with you, they would find a way to get around. on that right so that's her saying like you know an excuse to not let you down uh too hard but some dudes will like not understand that and they'll be like oh well like you know they can do this and try to like come up with um like a logistical solution it's like no the girl just isn't into it so i'm very good at like picking up right off the bat like if a girl doesn't want to talk to me i know right away and i'll just fuck off and i think it's perfectly fine to cold approach like all the time as long as you're super respectful about like, okay, this person is not interested whatsoever. Disengage.

Starting point is 01:20:07 What can someone do when approaching to maximize their chances of success? And what are the most common failures of the cold approach? I would say the most common failures is like not having an I-O-I first, like just going up to girls who don't even like know you're there. And then you're, what's I-O-I? An indication of interest. Like, maybe they give you a smile and are giving you eye contact and then you go up to them the chance of success is going to be like a lot better than if you just like approach a girl who's like on her phone and doesn't even know like uh that you're there you know because maybe it'll work but um you know there's there's no guarantee but regardless like i'm i'm pretty bad like you know with my game and like cold

Starting point is 01:20:53 approaching like that whole thing i got i just think it's like kind of funny and i'm like fine like sort of embarrassing myself and like getting rejected like I don't have a problem with that I'm not claiming to be some like pickup master because I actually think I'm like quite you haven't improved with 10,000 reps oh no certainly but it's more so I've improved like at looks maxing and being famous so it's like kind of hard to attribute it to like you know my conversational abilities when now I'm like huge on social media what do you think you can improve on in the cold approach um You still think you need a jester max more? No, no, jester max less.

Starting point is 01:21:33 I think just like finding more like interesting things in terms of the dialogue. Like I don't really have like a lot of dialogue options. It's like interesting things to talk about. I don't know. Just like that I guess would be good. Would you date a girl who makes more money than you? Find me one. Probably.

Starting point is 01:21:55 Yeah, I mean, I guess. I don't really have too much of a problem with that. that, but just not like something that's likely. Would you rather date, let's say all else considered equal, date a woman that makes more than you or date a woman that makes 50K year? It's more so just about the fact that like, you know, you don't want your girl's attention to be anywhere else than the relationship, in my opinion. And like, you know, potentially if you have a family in the future, like you don't want a girl

Starting point is 01:22:26 who's, you know, super dedicated to like a career, like a startup when, you know, you have, you have two newborn kids, you know, that's how I see it. Are you better or worse looking than your girlfriend? I wouldn't answer that. That's your favorite question, though. Or it's one of them. You've asked several people that question. Yeah, I always ask, no, I usually ask, like, girls who are friends. But you're not willing to answer? I think I know in my head, I think my girlfriend's very pretty. However.

Starting point is 01:23:06 That's all I'm going to say. Calm a butt. Well, like, she just hasn't put in the work. No, no, no. I think I would be perfectly fine and happy if I had a girlfriend who's better looking. So that wouldn't be a problem to me. So like, whatever people think, I don't really care, you know, but it's hard to be objective when there's like all the other things like, you know, you being attracted to like someone's personality. It sounds like you would care what she thinks, though, if you said that you're better looking, no?

Starting point is 01:23:44 No. That doesn't influence. So why would you not? Like, what's your internal dialogue telling you? Even if the answer is not out of ego and it's like purely, purely objective and you're like, okay, like, her. And you know, you mapped out every single point of every person's face. And then you said that you think either your girlfriend or yourself is more attractive, then you just look like an asshole, quite frankly.

Starting point is 01:24:10 So it's a trap when you ask the question of people. Yeah, of course. It's a trap, yeah. Okay, that's fair. Just to see if, like, someone will be, like, honest and brutal or if someone will be like... So what's the best way to handle it? Graham, are you better... Watch this.

Starting point is 01:24:25 I'll give you an opportunity. Graham, are you better or... worse looking than your wife. Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access, and a bonus post show posted every single week, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that, as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with priority responses to all of your comments. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now. Graham, are you better... I'll watch this. I'll give you an opportunity.

Starting point is 01:24:55 Graham, are you better or worse looking than your wife? worse. I think she's better looking. However. However. It sounded like there was a however. I think she's better looking. Yeah, well, I think that's the truth. I think it's, I think it's pretty clear. But I think that's a win. Like, I take that as a...

Starting point is 01:25:11 You look like Tom Cruise. I think that... I think it's a compliment. If you can get someone who's better looking than you, I think that's a compliment. Because then genetically, I've just basically maxed out your offspring. If they're better looking. So I think that, that I just did a service for the rest of humanity right there.

Starting point is 01:25:28 Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. I think my girlfriend's really attractive, so it doesn't matter regardless. What do you like about her? I don't really get into too much about, like, her relationship, but, like, just having her in my presence while I'm, like, working is nice, you know. Women feel, like, a very important role and, like, their energy that they bring around. So it's important. What about the energy specifically?

Starting point is 01:25:59 You just feel better, you know, like, whenever I'm, like, doing work on my computer and my girlfriend's, like, sitting on the couch behind me. I don't know how to explain it. Did you feel lonely without having a girlfriend? It feels a different role because I've always had, like, you know, my friends and, like, people around, but, like, a girlfriend is, like, a different type of connection, you know? So maybe, yeah. I saw the one clip recently where you told her she was spending more than 1,500. a week. I think it was like an $1,800 on a camera. Is she have a budget on like how much to spend a week or is it like a rough estimate? Like how does that work? You know, obviously if you say to a girl like, I don't want you to have a job and like I want you to focus on like the relationship, then it's your obligation to like, you know, take care of them and support them. That's like something people don't really understand who are like, you know, poor because a lot of like situations. are dual income, families, whatever.

Starting point is 01:26:59 So, you know, I was saying, like, I think $6,000 a month is more than anyone in this world needs to spend. That's more than... If they don't have rent. If they don't have any expenses, not a single bill. So, like, that's more than most people make. How do you determine market value in terms of payment? Like, how much this person should spend?

Starting point is 01:27:23 Why is $6,000 a month, not $10? Or not four. Yeah, how'd you arrive to that number? Um. Is it W2? Is it like health benefits too? I don't know. I think that's just an amount that's fine with me.

Starting point is 01:27:39 Like, I think it's just the amount that makes sense. There's like, you can get like new clothes and stuff with that much money. Um, and that's really about it. Does it scale with how much money you make? Like, no, no. It's just that, that's what it, that's just market rates. if you make 20 million a year or a million a year. Yeah, I just thought to myself, like,

Starting point is 01:28:02 you look at what shit costs and you look at what she's buying. It's like no reason for, like, more than 1,500 a week, even if I had unlimited money. Where does $1,500 a week go? Like, what do you spend $1,500 a week on? Well, the reason that I did it was because it was just, like, a lot of waste of, like, you know, sometimes like, oh, I want a smoothie or something like that.

Starting point is 01:28:30 And then it goes on a food delivery thing. And it's like it comes out to like $50 with all the fees for a $5 thing. So it's more so like, you know, you want like a smoothie or something. How about you get like, you know, seven of them and keep the other six in the fridge. So we are a little bit more economical here. Instead of like door dashing every single meal, how about, you know, things get cooked from time to time? So it's really just more so about like getting rid of waste than anything. I watched the podcast you did with Fresh and Fit.

Starting point is 01:29:03 You mentioned something about wanting waffles in the morning. Yeah. Did that change? Do you get waffles in the morning? Yeah, but not from my girlfriend. Usually I have like a maid who does it. How much do you work? Pretty much all I do.

Starting point is 01:29:20 So from the time I wake up to the time I sleep. How many people do you have working with you? Because I got to say, the people we met today, impeccable. I'm talking like, you seem. Yeah, look at all this lighting. We have like this box about us providing light right here. We got that light over there. We even have a light over here that shimmers for the, like, the thought that goes in,

Starting point is 01:29:42 the behind the scenes here that you've kind of assembled is really impressive. Yeah. So I think in person, I have like seven people that live with me and work. for me and then like you know another dozen or so just virtual assistance like that who does all the hiring and the firing and all that sort of stuff it's a mix uh i know some people like my cameraman have been with me pretty much since i started streaming and you know now i have someone who runs a lot of the business development like a CEO um you have a CEO yeah who does all the uh you know most of the hiring know what's the worst business decision you've ever made i do a lot of stupid stuff you know sometimes all

Starting point is 01:30:33 like self-deposit and like gamble money i've done that like i've done like a 60,000 dollar spin before how much money have you lost self-deposit in gambling probably like 20k that's not terrible yeah um i mean i think it is okay i just like you know 20 20k um you know compared to like how much made yeah it's not a lot but like i wouldn't it's just stupid you shouldn't have done it um so yeah i try to keep the margins as tight as possible um so yeah no like when people hear the thing about like oh a six thousand dollar budget a month or they'll be like um oh clavicular like don't you make this like why are you you know being so uh so strict about it and it's like strict about it that's like an insane amount of money six thousand dollars to spend when you have no bill

Starting point is 01:31:25 else. What's the most valuable business lesson that you've learned in your life? The relationships you make with people are extremely, extremely important, right? Like, and not doing business with people that you just don't trust and, you know, you don't get along with. I think it's very important that you actually get along with your business partners. How did you learn that lesson? By not getting along with people and trying to make things work to increase revenue. but, you know, the relationship eventually goes to shit. I want to talk about each one of your income sources and businesses. How is it broken down right now in terms of different income sources?

Starting point is 01:32:07 There's gambling, which is a pretty big one, live streaming. You get paid on kick for, you know, your concurrent viewers for how many hours you stream. And then you have some of the short form monetization, like the X monetization. You have Snapchat, which is a new one that's really big. Let's break down each of these because I'm curious, what do you make on Snapchat? Few grand a day. Few grand a day. That's a ton.

Starting point is 01:32:36 Like a hundred grand a month. Almost. Are we talking just from the photos? Yeah. Holy crap. How many people watch it? I don't really understand how the metrics work. I just have someone that runs it for me and takes all the pictures, post them.

Starting point is 01:32:50 I don't know if it's like, it's more so about like watching. time and like how many people how many stories are clicking through so maybe like a hundred thousand but it's like are there 100,000 people looking at one story or 100,000 people looking at 100. Wow. Say litter ads throughout where people are clicking through, you know. That's insane. Like that is some crazy monetization. I'm curious with the concurrent viewers with Kik, what is Kik pay you?

Starting point is 01:33:15 Somewhere around like a thousand an hour usually. And how many viewers does that take to get paid $1,000 an hour? if I'm not mistaken, what I've heard is like it's $10 for like 100 viewers or something like that. But I think they kind of fluctuate it manually. I don't really understand how the KPP metrics work. Because sometimes I'll have the same concurred viewers and it'll be less and it'll fluctuate. So it doesn't make sense. You know, it's kind of just like weather kick sort of likes you that month, I think.

Starting point is 01:33:51 And the gambling deal. I know that this is like for everybody, like the way that everyone makes insane amounts of money. Like YouTube income used to be one thing. And then the gambling deals with like streamers and stuff and steak, rubout, whatever it is, those came out and completely changed. Like how much money people are making to unheard of amounts. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:11 I'm curious what is your gambling deal look like? So I gamble 15K every day. And like it just whatever. I keep at the end of my gambling session, sometimes is more, sometimes is less. But usually it's a lot more than that. So I'm positive for the past three months and I gamble every day. Interesting. So what's the most you've ever made in a session? I think the most I've ever made in a day gambling is like 85K. Holy cow. So your best income source is probably gambling. Yeah, no. So I would say gambling is probably the top. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say. But I don't really like to

Starting point is 01:34:51 tell people exactly how much money I make anymore. Like I do well for myself streaming. Like people have somewhat of an idea. I'm sure it could do the math kind of like what's publicly out there on like how much I make. But, you know, it's unwise to let people know exactly. I think the difference between, I mean, I would estimate probably 300, 400, 400,000 a month. I think the difference between 300 or 200 grand a month and 500 grand a month is the same thing to like 99.99% be a million a month. I'm saying. I mean, for gambling, just from that, I make a lot more than that. Really? Yeah. Then you're not, it's not 15K a day. That's what I start with, but I'm positive for the month, you know, so like I end with more than that. So like I'll start gambling with 15,000

Starting point is 01:35:41 in the account and then I'll, you know, usually end up with a lot more because like some days you could run it up to even 85K and some days I lose it all. Not like over. overall it's positive. Just thinking that maybe like, you know, women for only fans is almost like the men for gambling. Yeah, that's commonly said. Yeah. I mean, it's substantial. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:02 I'm, I just feel like everyone thinks when they seen, and don't quote me and sue me for this, but when people see Trainwrex TV hit like a $50 million win, there's just no way that's real. Like my brain immediately thinks this has to be fake. Like, there's no way this dude. spinning and $50 million. Wait, you're talking $50.50. $5.0? Steak has like a billion dollars a day in wagers.

Starting point is 01:36:28 So like, um, that, that's absolutely real. They're not going to like, you know, risk all of their licenses and how much, uh, money they're making from their situation to boost someone's account to get like marketing. Like people are already gambling on steak, whether train wrecks hits for 50 mill or not. Like, that's really not a big boost for them. And they're not going to risk, um, everything that they have going on for them to. to. But when you're a paid gambler and you win three months in a row, that also makes me, I hesitate. Like, is it a little like skewed? Yeah. Hey, instead of it being, you know,

Starting point is 01:37:00 51% house, we're going to go 49% house with this person. I mean, obviously, don't know me. Yeah, or even if it's a 50. This is also good to have this conversation because a lot of people, I am guessing, assume this. No, it's just like with the slot multipliers. Like, um, I don't know. I've just always gotten kind of lucky with it where like I'll be doing like $500 spins and I'll, I'll lose like three in a row. Then I'll randomly like up the buy to like 2K. And then I'll hit like a max win multiplier. And some of the multipliers are like 70,000 is like the max win.

Starting point is 01:37:32 70,000 X. What does that do to your perception of money when you're like up and down a few tens of thousands of dollars a day? Does that skew like how you view the cost of like a coffee or like rent, a car? No, not really. You're able to separate the two, categorize each one and say, oh, that's a car, this is just my gambling money. Yeah, I don't really live in too much luxury. You know, I have just the sprinter and I have an SUV.

Starting point is 01:38:03 Like, I don't even have any other cars because why would I? It's like, I don't even drive. How do you make sure you're not getting taken advantage of? Because virtually every single person that I've known that started making really good money at a young age that didn't have a lot of mentors around. I remember last time we spoke, you said you don't really have any mentors. how do you make sure that you aren't being taken advantage of? Well, now I do. Now I have people that kind of look out for me.

Starting point is 01:38:25 And as of, you know, networked with a lot more people who are in really successful positions, someone doing like a lot better than you, like isn't really going to be out to get you. Like, you know, I'm friends with people who are worth, you know, nine, ten figures. Like, they don't really care to, like, try to, me over in my situation and give me bad advice.

Starting point is 01:38:51 So now I have a better grasp on things. So what's some of the best advice you've received, best financial advice? Probably that it's not about what you make, it's about what you save. Because I've had some months where I was, you know, making a lot more than I do, but the expenses were, you know, quite higher.

Starting point is 01:39:12 So now it's like I end every single month, better off net profit-wise. you know, but the top of the line revenue might be a little less, whether it be spending on like stream production that doesn't actually translate into real income or, uh, something like that. You know, technology that I don't need. Just whatever. What's the ideal amount of money to make? Have you noticed any diminishing returns above a certain amount? Uh, no, it doesn't really make a difference because I, outside of like, you know, my bills and what stuff costs, salaries. Like, I'm not really spending too much money on a day-to-day basis. It's not like we're going to the club and blowing, like, you know, 10K every Friday night. It just doesn't happen. What's the most you've ever dropped at the club? $8,000.

Starting point is 01:40:03 That's not bad. I mean, especially if you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. What's the most amount of money you've ever wasted? Well, sometimes I'll, like, pick Airbnbs or hotels that are just, like, ridiculously overpriced. Like when we were staying at our last hotel, I think it was like 8K a night or something like that. What hotel was that? One in Israel.

Starting point is 01:40:27 That is so interesting. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's very surprising. It seems like you're pretty financially responsible. Not that that I wouldn't have expected that. But I don't know, very few people are, especially when they start making such good money at a young age. Well, you seem very calculated to me. It doesn't seem like this happened by accident.

Starting point is 01:40:43 It seems like you're very, you kind of know what you're doing. well i mean i've you know that's not to say that i haven't you know up like in a lot of ways um but it's just like i kind of would learn a lot from like seeing my parents situation because my dad um you know i i grew up like very well off but my dad would still steal toilet trees from like hotels and stuff like that. Like, you know, not actually steal, but just like take home like the little shampoo bottles from the room, even though he's making insane amounts of money. So just like all these principles, just you grow up with it and, you know, you're seeing it. That's just kind of how you are going to be as well. How much do you spend every month? Like, what's your monthly overhead?

Starting point is 01:41:32 You have this penthouse apartment. You have another one apparently. That's way nicer, you said. I would say maybe like 400 or something like that. It's $400,000 a month. When you account for staff. Yeah, probably around there. Payroll. Does that include gambling losses? No. How are you spending $400,000 a month? What is this penthouse? This one is 20 a month. And your other one? 35. Plus seven people. Plus probably paying for those people's food, plus security. Plus all the other stuff. Where's the most of it going? Salaries, travel is a big one.

Starting point is 01:42:14 Traveling's... You travel well, you fly first class and everything. Yeah. Well, not everyone, but like sometimes... I flew economy on the way over to Paris, but I'll fly economy as much as I can. But it's more so just about, like, you know, the Airbnbs and then every single time you want to go somewhere.

Starting point is 01:42:36 Uber, it just all adds up. You know what I mean? Traveling to Europe, especially, places like St. Trope and Mekinos are not the most cheap. It's very expensive to spend the summer in New York. You got a good tax person who's like filing for you now, right? Yeah. So this is going to be like the first year where I've had to pay like a significant amount of taxes because I didn't make too much money until about December of 2025. So yeah, it's all it's going to hurt. How does that feel? feel to write the check to the IRS. I haven't had the huge one yet, but it's just, it's not great. It's not great.

Starting point is 01:43:15 Are you also making money from the membership? Yeah. Is that substantial or is that a, no. So you kind of just do it on the side? Yeah. And do you do any one-on-one consulting? Sometimes. Really?

Starting point is 01:43:27 Yeah, sometimes I'll do it. But I mean, it's like, I'm hugely burdened in terms of my time, so it's not something I can really do more than like a few times a week. What do you charge for a one-on-one consultation? It's usually just something I'm doing for free, just like for people that I know. Oh. It's not usually a paid thing.

Starting point is 01:43:48 I mean, sometimes, but yeah, usually just people calling me, asking me for tips that I'm friends with that I've done collaborations with, whatever. We had some questions for you last time submitted by an influencer. this time we have a couple more questions. And I wanted to see what your response is to these. Okay. Okay, I see you out modeling.

Starting point is 01:44:12 I know you've been on performance enhancing drugs, but you seem to have lost all of your muscle. You look 100% natural. And you're no longer going to the gym. Do you have any plans to actually go back to the gym and try to look smacks by putting on more muscle? I know lean is law. But what about putting on muscle?

Starting point is 01:44:30 Will you be back into the gym to influence young people to actually train? Yeah, no, absolutely. I don't gym on stream. I started going like a few days ago when I got back, but it was just impossible between traveling and that whole thing. So yeah, I think the gym is a huge part of looks maxing. When Greg says you look natural, it's because realistically I am. Like I'm on TRT, testosterone replacement therapy.

Starting point is 01:45:00 not, you know, a steroid blast bodybuilder type cycle. And it doesn't do the work for you. Even if you are blasting steroids, if you're not going to the gym, then you're not going to make gains. You could probably make, you know, similar gains with good diet and training, you know, as a natural, then someone who's just taking gear and Lidar in some cases. So I see you got a nose, Sergei, a rhinoplasty, my girlfriend, she got the same thing out in Turkey.

Starting point is 01:45:30 And so I was wondering, do you really think you needed to get the surgery dumb? You dumb. I can send you that. Just so you have that video. Portisal spiking. Well, you know, if I recall, doesn't Greg have a hair transplant? Right? So does he really need that?

Starting point is 01:45:52 I mean, what? He's a millionaire. You're giving your content right now. Yeah, he's a millionaire. He's got a girlfriend. Like, did you really need the hair transplant, bro? You know what I mean? So that's what I'd say to him.

Starting point is 01:46:03 Did I need the nose job? Probably not, but it ascended me. So the same reasons that he got his hair done is the same reasons I got my nose. Clivicular. I think I found a worst fitness influencer than yourself. He goes by the name of Eric English. If you haven't heard of this guy, he's 16 years old. He's on performance enhancing drugs and a lot of them.

Starting point is 01:46:27 And he's literally promoting a peptide company on Instagram. Do you think he's worse than you? What is your opinion on this? I don't really think that Greg, like, knows anything that I've talked about because any of the advice that I've given I've always followed it up with, you know, under the supervision of a doctor, you know, as you've probably heard throughout this interview.

Starting point is 01:46:53 So I don't think I've said anything too shocking. You know, I've said things that I've done that are shocking that have a high risk associated with them. But I've always said, don't fucking do this. I've said, you know, maybe I'll have a drink at the club, you know, on the stream. But, you know, I still acknowledge, like, how evil and how toxic consumption of alcohol is and that you shouldn't do it. It's one of the worst things for people who are in development.

Starting point is 01:47:22 So I just don't know if Greg exactly understands what I'm all about in any of the protocols that I've actually recommended for people. We got another one from one of the most popular guests on our podcast, Chris Camillo. Okay. He says this, I agree with most of his looks maxing takes. Where he misses the mark is in diminishing returns. It's not about looks versus status versus charisma. Once you're in roughly the top 10 to 15% in one area, your highest ROI usually comes from

Starting point is 01:47:52 improving other dimensions, not grinding to become the top 1% in the same count. category. That's the nuance. Ironically, I mean, I haven't ever said that. I kind of acknowledge the whole thing about diminishing returns. So I just don't, I think that's just another person that doesn't have a complete understanding of my takes or my ideology. He says, ironically, he also underestimated how much of his current success is now driven by influence and celebrity rather than incremental gains in his attractiveness. Additionally, I think his age, shapes his perspective. Looks might get you into the room,

Starting point is 01:48:30 but every new room has different bottlenecks. As you level up, charisma, intelligence, reputation, competence, authentic relationships, status, wealth, and actual accomplishments often become the limiting factors. Being exceptionally good-looking could even become a disadvantage in certain environments. I've seen it firsthand at the highest levels of business

Starting point is 01:48:51 where people sometimes have to work harder to overcome the assumptions others make about them. Looks matter. They just stop being the bottlenecks sooner than many people realize. If you want to quote me, you can, but you never need to. Oh, I didn't need to say that. Thanks, Chris. Another perspective is selection bias. If your sample is dating, you'll conclude that explains almost everything. But if your sample is CEOs, founders, elite athletes, politicians, entertainers, or anyone at the top of their field, the equation changes and looks won't get you as far as you think. He's also willing to trade you wealth maxing techniques for looks maxing techniques. And Chris Camillo is someone I would absolutely listen to who has helped us tremendously.

Starting point is 01:49:33 He's one of the few people I just love to back and forth with in terms of investing. Yeah. And once again, he mentioned something about me not attributing my newfound success with, you know, my internet fame. But I literally acknowledge that when we were talking about it. Yeah, you did mention that. Exactly. So it's just someone, it's another situation where, like, if you actually listen to me in like a long-form setting, I usually clarify all my points extremely well. It's just like things will be clipped. That's the nature of short-form redistribution. So I would say we probably don't disagree on much, me and me and that guy. What went wrong in the Channel 5 interview with Andrew Callahan? It wasn't him. I was necessarily.

Starting point is 01:50:21 calling out, but I was more so calling out the fact that no one actually asked me questions about looks maxing, you know, or any specifics based on that. I think he was just asking like random political questions. And I was like, you know, dude, why are you not asking me about what all my content is about, looks maxing? What's something that we could have done better? I don't think that there's anything wrong. I think this interview was great. You got to that you were asking about how I weigh looks versus status and what's more important, like, you know, and the hypotheticals that you gave. So I think everything was spot on.

Starting point is 01:51:03 It's about to get worse, though, because we have other questions. What caused you to pass out at the club? Oh, just from just drinking too much on an empty stomach. So, oh, wow. So it was just a miscalculation. Yeah, I mean, just what, like, the people watching, like, I've never had too much to drink, like in college and, you know, blacked out. little bit like it happens it seems like they were worried about you like you were unresponsive for a

Starting point is 01:51:26 second he's like yeah that didn't seem like alcohol to me but i could that's no no it was i mean i'm just not someone who frequently consumes alcohol so my uh you know my tolerance is not the strongest that was when i kind of like started drinking and after not consuming alcohol for like six months but yeah that's like what everyone put in the media was that it was in a and it's like yeah technically but that makes it seem like it was like drugs yeah right That it was like drug oriented when, yeah, technically it isn't, but it's alcohol. It's a little different. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:51:58 So you got slapped and then pressed charges. What was the conclusion of that? That's what got me. Like, not allowed back into that club is because I pressed charges. No. Yeah, so they knew how old it was. Oh, wow. I kind of fucked that up, but.

Starting point is 01:52:15 You didn't end up actually succeeding in pressing charges? No, I did. I did. What happened? I'm not sure, you know. I just know I pressed. like misdemeanor, I think battery is what it was? She's in jail for 35 years now.

Starting point is 01:52:27 Yeah. No, I'm sure she's perfectly fine. But regardless, that clip goes viral. It's so funny. Like every couple months, it'll just pop back up on the timeline. Okay. We need a yes or no answer. Did you get frame-mogged by the ASU frat leader?

Starting point is 01:52:43 That's what people say. That's so funny that the question still comes up. That went like so viral. And that was like earlier into my heart. career so I think that helped with a lot of virality because that was what like February yeah so you did I don't know that's I'll leave that up to what do you think I don't really think about it too much but if you were to you know do you think you frame-mogged him I don't know um you know my my whole thing is I've never really claimed to be like the best looking person that's not my thing like oh like I'm the

Starting point is 01:53:17 ultimate looks maxed it's like I'm just super knowledgeable in the field and I get advice. Do you see him at all? Never. You talk to him at all? His numbers blocked. I don't know. There's no way they're talking. He's banned from all platforms. No, that'll, uh, yeah, that all usually happen. Like, you know, there will just be like a random

Starting point is 01:53:36 characters on my stream. When is the last time you were embarrassed? Never. See, that's the thing I see. It's like you seem to be very emotionally neutral. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so like all these different things. like me getting rejected, like, you know, the clips that make me look silly. I get pretty happy about it.

Starting point is 01:53:58 I'm like, oh, this is great. It's just like more viral, more views. Do you wish that you felt emotions more deeply? No. Loquor is all is the move. So I'm just, you know, if I let all these little things affect me, like, you know, what people say on the internet, then, you know, I would be just in my head all the time when I was streaming.

Starting point is 01:54:18 I like the fact you're not reactionary. I think that's really important. It seems to that you hold composure extremely well regardless of what's going on around you. You have to, you know, or else you're going to be impulsive and do stupid. Is that just you or is that just practice? That's just me. Okay. So you've always been this way?

Starting point is 01:54:38 Mm-hmm. Do you think that it prevents you from experiencing highs as much as you could? Yeah. Usually people were so low in hip and they just do impulsors all the time. they have like a lot of fun doing so but um like being pretty emotionally flatlined allows you to be a lot more uh you know successful and a lot more consistent i would say so i'm extremely consistent and then running over that guy in the car did you feel bad or did you feel vindicated no comment no yeah i don't think you could say how you feel because i'm sure it's still

Starting point is 01:55:18 ongoing and is there litigation there's no way that's over i i think it is i think um the guy kind of like did up with a couple of statements made on the internet so oh interesting in fairness i got it i never think you should get in front of a car with a person behind the driver's seat when the car can go i have to say that to me yeah seems like common sense well let's just say that Thankfully, we're in Florida, not the state of California or else things would be very different. The state of Florida and a lot of its, you know, litigators, whatever, legislators, excuse me, have said, you know, about these protests. If you get in front of someone's car and are blocking them, then run them over. I see some of these that really upset me.

Starting point is 01:56:09 When there's a car trying to pass through, people surround the car. You could see the person inside freaking out. And they accelerate. And the people in front get off. And then sometimes then they try to chase down the car and rip out the person. Once again, I'm not an impulsive guy. Everything I do is calculated. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:31 So. So this is a status tier list. And so this, it's based off of, you know, how much they can status mug, what they're able to achieve looks kind of the whole package. you know, maybe attraction to woman or from woman. That's a good thing. Okay. So SMV, I'm going to put first S tier. Got to be Ronaldo easily.

Starting point is 01:56:58 And mind you, the closer you are to the letter, that is also within the S tier. That's how it's ranked. Oh, okay. Elon Musk, I'm going to put him. I'm actually going to put him at A tier, I would say. I would say Tate.

Starting point is 01:57:20 I'm going to put Tristan Tate at A tier. I'll also put Andrew Tate at A tier. Between them, which one's closer to the letter? I put Tristan. Let's see, we have Togi. We have Timothy Shalameh. That's probably another, yeah, that's probably another eight tier. Okay, now moving on to B tier.

Starting point is 01:57:47 I'm going to go with David Laid I'm going to go with Oh wait I forgot I didn't I just saw Messi on this list Yeah you could put them back in the tier Yeah I'll put Messi right after Elon Musk here

Starting point is 01:58:03 So he's going to go in front of the Tates And right behind Elon Musk All right and then I'm going to put Oh Henry Cavill Also another S tier right behind Ronaldo So let's see, Mr. Beast. We'll put him B tier.

Starting point is 01:58:22 That's hard. Yeah, we'll put him B tier. We'll do XQC, I think, is also going to be pretty high up there. Or, no, we'll go C tier. We'll put Hassan. We'll put Speed. Kai. ex-cc

Starting point is 01:58:48 oh dude when you're comparing to like messy I mean Elon Musk it's like I agree with you I took this I filled this out as well

Starting point is 01:58:56 I'll put my results what I put this as after you've done I can't wait to see this yeah um let's see I'll put neon

Starting point is 01:59:07 in T tier um Jesse James West I put in I would say detier. I think just like with how famous some of these people are, like, you know, we're talking about messy, you know, versus like...

Starting point is 01:59:29 It doesn't need to be linear. It could be... Yeah. Okay. I'm going to put myself in probably D tier. Um, let's see. All right. we'll put bang.

Starting point is 01:59:54 Okay, I don't know who these two... Oh, wait, let me put Nick and then... Hmm, I think we'll go... I think Nick, since just with, like, how controversial as politics are, might be a little lower, like, see? And then who are these last two people? Me and Caleb Hammer. You got Graham on the right.

Starting point is 02:00:23 than Caleb is on the left. Okay. That's probably how I... I hope I scored... Yes, I scored higher than Caleb Hammer. I scored higher than Graham. That's crazy. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:36 Okay, so I put... Wow, I can't believe you put neon higher than you. Yeah. Why is Neon higher than you? Oh, wait, I did? Maybe... Yeah. Neon was the only person I put lower than me.

Starting point is 02:00:50 Yeah, I might be... I was second to last in my list. Why is Togi so much higher than Jack and I? I think he is, dude. I mean, like, just because he's, he's jacked? He's jacked. He makes a lot of money. He's funny.

Starting point is 02:01:01 He's charismatic. He's Jester Max. Yeah. physique max. More than Jesse James West, though? I think so. I think so, yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 02:01:12 That's, yeah, that's my list. Caleb, Jack, we got some work to do. Awesome. I'm not last. I wasn't the last to my list. Second of last. Yeah. So, you know, like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty objective with it.

Starting point is 02:01:22 Like, you know, I realize, like, like my fault and I have no problem acknowledging it. You know, I've never claimed to be like the best looking highest SMV, just a guy who could, you know, talk for hours about every single drug interaction in my body and all areas of looks maxing. You know, that's what I'm about. You know what? The other thing I will give you a lot of credit for and Jack and I were talking about this, when he texted you, you texted Jack back immediately. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. And you knew your schedule because it was so planned.

Starting point is 02:01:55 out that when Jack asked when are you free, you said, this day, this time. Yeah. I finished another podcast right before this. I've just had a ridiculous amount of media the past like a week or so, probably done like over 10 different interviews. Yeah, you're very calculated. I think people can tell, obviously, if they watch enough of your raw content as opposed to just the clips, that everything you do has a plan and it's calculated. And that, I think the only thing that I haven't quite understood yet, and maybe it's an age thing, maybe it isn't, is that you juxtapose this like very calculated, intelligent, you know, you could go on for hours about pharmacology and you mix that up with a lot of very risky, irrational decisions that some people see you making on stream. That could just be

Starting point is 02:02:46 for entertainment purposes. It doesn't seem like you've actually experienced negative consequences of you know, extending yourself too much, right? So it seems like even the chaos is a little bit controlled. Yeah, no, most certainly. Which is good. Yeah. Thank you so much for giving us your time today. Consult a medical professional.

Starting point is 02:03:08 I do not get behind any of this like, you know, like, you know, talk to doctors. Oh, I'm clueless. Be smart. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I already said this. Yeah, of course he said this. We're not saying this as opposition to him, but we all agree. Talk to doctors.

Starting point is 02:03:22 Do your best. Oh, yeah. Do your best. Do your best. Thank you so much for watching. Until next time. Oh, and also, if you want to see the full-length podcast without the cuts, feel free to join the memberships.

Starting point is 02:03:33 You also get early access to the episodes as well. So really hope you enjoy. Thank you so much. Until next time.

The Iced Coffee Hour - How Clavicular Makes (And Spends) $500,000+ Per Month By LooksMaxxing

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