The Iced Coffee Hour - “I Regret Nothing!” Clavicular Exposes The Dark World Of Looksmaxxing, Attraction & Extreme Surgery

Starting point is 00:00:00 There's more to life than finding the perfect car. But finding the perfect car can help you get the most out of life. Like the SUV that handles everything from drop off to off road, and the car that hulls groceries and hockey teams, or the van that's gone from just practical to practically family. Whatever you want, wherever you're going, start your search at autotrater.ca. Canada's Car Marketplace.

Starting point is 00:00:30 So why does so many people believe that looks don't matter? It's easy to convince yourself if you're not an attractive person that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the most important for your overall well-being. If you aren't good-looking, no one's going to take your opinion seriously. What's the point of it all? Like, what's the end goal? There's no end goal to looks maxing.

Starting point is 00:00:50 The only real goal is to get better looking, no matter what it takes. Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months? I would say because of my authenticity With everything that I do Even if it might make me be perceived a little worse He's got the worst of both traits The worst of the men combined with the worst of the women So we previously had Greg Doucette on the podcast

Starting point is 00:01:15 Oh geez He sent over a few questions you wanted to ask Claviculum How much do you consider morals With what you do and preach online I don't necessarily care Too much about like and what I need to do to accomplish the result, if that's what you're asking.

Starting point is 00:01:36 Hey, guys, a quick disclaimer on this episode before we start. We own the iced coffee hour firmly believe in hearing out every single perspective. We like to consider ourselves a self-improvement podcast. And so this mentality has been gaining a lot of ground in the self-improvement niche. So we decided to hear him out. Of course, go into everything with a healthy level of skepticism and curiosity. He says a lot of stuff on this podcast that's a little inflammatory. We didn't want to have an approach of saying,

Starting point is 00:02:02 saying, no, you can't say that. And policing what he can and can't say. So we heard him out, no filters. Let us know what you guys think. And of course, if you're considering doing any of this stuff, talk to a professional. Don't just go out on your own and do it. Let us know what you guys think about this episode. And if you want more content like this, thank you so much for watching. Appreciate every single one of you on the episode. Clavicular, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour podcast. Absolutely. I got to ask, which social medias are you banned from? I am banned from Instagram and YouTube right now. Do you know why? you got banned? Something to do with like the new AI moderation system. I had one of my live accounts

Starting point is 00:02:38 sticking down that uploads like my kick vods, which are, you know, pretty over the line. So, and then for some reason I got my main channel flagged, even though there was no correlation between the channels. They didn't give you an actual reason as to exactly why. I believe it was for talking about pharmaceuticals and something peptide related is a no-go on YouTube now. Did your business take a big hit from these social media accounts being banned? Not really. That's not my main source of revenue. YouTube is kind of just like a side project.

Starting point is 00:03:10 And I use that to post a lot of my like informational content. So YouTube actually operates at a loss for me. So your main thing is to get to look as good as you possibly can, taking whatever measures necessary to be what would you call an Adam or a Chad? Something like that. Yeah, there's a lot of. like terminology out there. I just think of it as improving. I don't really have like an end goal in mind. Like I know that looks maxing is a pretty much never-ending process. Like there's really no looks

Starting point is 00:03:42 maxed that you could achieve. So just seeing like how far you can go, you know, what you can achieve is kind of my mentality. So why does so many people believe that looks don't matter? It's a lot of cope. It's a lot of people living in delusion, fantasy land because it's easy to convince yourself if you're, you know, not an attractive person, that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the most important for your overall well-being. How much would you say looks matters compared to something like personality? It matters so much more because your personality is correlated with your looks via the halo effect, right? So people are going to perceive your personality, your interests, your hobbies vastly different if you're good looking versus not. So it's,

Starting point is 00:04:23 you know, a direct correlation. What would you say are your most attractive and least attractive features right now? Most attractive features, I would say that I've got a pretty good hair line. Well, I mean, I am pretty young, so that's one of the things that I should. And I would say that

Starting point is 00:04:43 my jaw from the front profile is pretty good. So I would say that. And least attractive features, I would say that my nose and yeah, as well as maybe like the total height of my of my skull could be a little better how is that not body dysmorphia well it could be absolutely and i think a lot of people usually end up there but it's just about how

Starting point is 00:05:11 you're going to let this affect your overall mental well-being right uh you asked me that question and i you know sat there and thought about it um but it's not something you ever think about on a day-to-day basis i'm not like oh my god i don't want to go outside today because my ailer base is too wide or something like that. What is that? Just the width of your nose. So, you know, that's not a thought process. That's not a mentality that I hold.

Starting point is 00:05:34 It's just I know that I have to improve. I have to get better, you know. But at the same time thinking about your nose, don't you think that time would be better spent elsewhere? Not really, because once again, it's not something I ever think about just on a day-to-day basis. It's like I know that the steps that are required to, you know, fix this what we call a phalo.

Starting point is 00:05:56 would be rhinoplasty, but that's the extent of the thought process, the mental burden. So I don't really see it as problematic. So why did you start this entire process? What did you feel like you were missing in your life? I didn't really think that I was missing anything. And the way that it kind of took on was I was pretty big into bodybuilding. I liked watching Rich Piano when I was growing up. And I had a home gym that I was working out without really any idea what I was doing.

Starting point is 00:06:25 So, and then I kind of learned, you know, through my use of forums when I was growing up about, right? And I was already lifting weights and I was like, well, if I could have this cheat code essentially that's going to get me to my desired physique, get me my results quicker, why would I not do it? It's not like your typical person who ups on that age where they're like, I want to look like David Laid or Jeff's side. That's not my mentality. It was just an objective, okay, here's a tool that I could utilize and I'm going going to, going. to do so. So you hopped on at 14, right? And was any part of your brain concerned with consequences of taking that at such a young age? No, no, not at all. So what was the mentality going into? It's just strictly like, this will help me reach my goals at a faster rate, barring whatever consequences.

Starting point is 00:07:12 Yeah, and it seems pretty silly to not take, like, it seemed more ridiculous to not take at the time than to take them, you know, because of how much quicker I could achieve that physique. But why not do that naturally and then without taking this? Because at 14, you would just assume that you're already going to make a lot of progress, that there's no point to doing something. Well, I mean, that mentality I think is holding a lot of people back. Like, why not doing naturally? Because it's going to not only take longer, but you're not going to get nearly the results that you otherwise could, you know? So just not doing whatever it takes was completely off the table for me. That's like the rich piano mentality, whatever it takes.

Starting point is 00:07:53 How did you get them? She's ordering things on the internet. You were not concerned about ordering stuff the internet? No. No. How did you know what you were going to get, though? How do you know it's going to be legitimate and how do you know what to take? Well, I mean, I did my due diligence with, like, you know, online forums and talking about this stuff.

Starting point is 00:08:13 So it took me a little while to figure it out, but, you know, same way everyone else does. And what about your parents? Did they have any idea that you were doing this? Yeah, they were not happy with my decision. they would go and, you know, go through my room from time to time from time to time and take them away or, you know, snipe the mail. They'd always be going through my packages trying to, you know, intercept this. But they were not in support it at all. Did you have any of your friends in support of this? Was anyone in support of this aside from yourself? No one really had much to say about it.

Starting point is 00:08:46 And they just, you know, I guess appreciated the honesty because a lot of people take some lie. but I was always someone who just didn't care. Even when I first started, because people who are normies usually put into like this weird binary in their head where it's like, okay, you're on. You should look like Ronnie Coleman, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:09:05 Rather than, okay, you're on well, how much, oh, you're only on a little bit of testosterone. Like, that makes sense that after two months that you're not an IFBBB pro. But that's not how people's brains work. So I would definitely take on a little bit of, of heat for that oh you know you're you know barely big for taking bro but i i didn't care i was always open about it did you start immediately getting more attention from women no i would say that

Starting point is 00:09:31 i probably looked worse taking for a little while because i didn't really know how to do them properly um you know you deal with issues with your skin uh i was you know getting severely bloated um i was doing dirty bulk so like the gym was kind of something that looks mend me at the start and And the reason I started doing looks maxing was because I was on these forums and then there was a little of like the black pill influence, like looks maxers coming into the spaces and just that overlap. Like, wait a second, guys, we're doing all this gym selling and, you know, dedicating all our time. Maybe our priorities are wrong.

Starting point is 00:10:08 Maybe we should be focused on the face. I was like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. And that's kind of where I segue it around the age of 16 into looks maxing. What's the point of it all? Like, what's the end goal of looks maxing? Well, once again, there's no end goal to looks maxing. What's the point? Like, what do you, what's the objective?

Starting point is 00:10:27 Well, the objective is to get better looking because that's going to allow for more opportunities, allow for better overall treatment, you know, just that subconscious bias in people that you're leveraging by, you know, becoming better and better looking, is really worth all the effort that you put in. But don't you think that someone could achieve 90% of looks maxing, really just going to the gym, eating healthy, getting a haircut, getting fit clothes. Soft maxing, as they call it. 90%. And then the other 10%

Starting point is 00:10:57 that you would spend years trying to build, you could spend that 10% doing anything else to make you more attractive in other areas. For instance, personality, business, intelligence, things like this. I would say that the number falls closer to 70%, and I agree with that general premise

Starting point is 00:11:13 that you just gave. But I think you're overestimating the time burden of looks maxing. It's not like something that you really have to do. In a lot of regards, you actually have to focus on business because that additional like 30% would be typically very expensive. So you've got to have, you know, the budget set aside to be able to do things like plastic surgery, things like some of these peptides. It's not exactly a cheap process, but it's not really time intensive either. How much have you spent on your current looks maxing journey and how much do you intend on spending throughout the rest of your life, do you think?

Starting point is 00:11:47 I think I probably spend around $50,000 to $80,000 a year just on like peptides. So I would say that that's probably the majority. That's like obviously an absurd figure. Like it's not required that you do that. I think your average person will probably, who's doing like a lot of the protocols, maybe we run them $5,000 to $10,000 a year. But I'm experimenting with like a lot of different stuff like NAD. and like a lot of neutropic related stuff that really pushes the price up.

Starting point is 00:12:23 So like intelligence maxing is like another thing I do. What is intelligence maxing? Well, using different pharmaceuticals and neutropics to try to be, you know, as mentally cognizant and sharp as possible. And how do you actually record how intelligent you are? How do you know if you're making forward progress? Well, I mean, just you could definitely notice the acute mental clarity with like a lot of these neutropics that you're taking. For example, something like Samax, if you, you know, take that in conjunction

Starting point is 00:12:52 with, you know, a stimulant, you're really going to feel a lot more dialed in. Like, and it's very noticeable. It's not like a placebo garbage cope supplement that you could take. That's, like, very legitimate stuff. So in that regard, but in terms of, like, doing IQ tests and stuff, like from time to time, I think that's a little bit silly to begin with. So I wouldn't really say, It needs to be measured because we have the literature, we have the studies to support that this stuff does, you know, cause like things like synaptogenesis. And that's going to make you more intelligent. So is this all yourself trying to progress towards this ideal version of yourself? And then what do you do once you reach that? Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out the objective. Like, is this to get like, is it to get girls? Is it to like just make money? Like, what's the purpose of this? Well, all of those things are true, right? Being better looking just, is it. is so advantageous in getting women, but it's like at the end of the day,

Starting point is 00:13:52 that would be like a silly reason to do something with this much dedication just to get women, because there's a lot of different things that you could do to get women. Like you could become a more interesting person, even like you could learn, like a lot of these psychological tactics.

Starting point is 00:14:06 There are steps that you could take, but it's just about, you know, whatever I want to do, my message will be received better. I'll be received better as a person, person entirely when I become good looking. So there's essentially no lane that I could take that I wouldn't benefit from massively from looks max. You don't think you've already accomplished 99% of that. No, not at all. Do you really think that if you had maybe a sharper nose or a more chiseled jaw line that you would make more opportunity, more money? Do you think that's what's holding you back?

Starting point is 00:14:41 Absolutely, because, you know, I take a look at percentiles, like where I am. I would say I'm probably, you know, maybe top 90th percentile in terms of looks. But, you know, you push yourself further, just like that additional 10 percentiles. And what you start to achieve and the doors to start to open are like, you know, for example, like the one guy Jeremy Meeks who commits a felony and has a bunch of girls find him attractive and bail him out on Facebook. And then he gets a $1 million modeling contract or Jordan Barrett who gets caught stealing, another like, you know, contracts and like all these people who do like these heinous crimes and just like have people girls like stamping over them that's what becomes available to you so life is like just impossible to lose

Starting point is 00:15:29 yeah but are you going to be committing crimes i mean well that's an example to show that those guys it's purely because they went viral based on their mugshot no it's like it's the crime and then you see the face and you're like wait a second that face can't fit that crime like i see a lot of women now. You see their mug shots of like, she just threw hot coffee on this guy and went to jail and it's like some attractive, like 20-something year old. And they go viral on Twitter. Well, not when you're getting like modeling contracts worth millions of dollars, right? That's like a looks level that. And, you know, I'm pretty sure Brad Pitt even had a similar come up story. I don't recall his exactly. But life just becomes like uneasy mode. Like you're basically playing

Starting point is 00:16:08 like creative and Minecraft, you know? Yeah, but how do you explain then Mark Zuckerberg? or a lot of these billionaires, which are just average-looking dudes. Easy because they're extremely innovative. They came up with something, you know, that's never been seen before. And I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't win at life if you're not good-looking. I'm just suggesting that it would be drastically easier, right? And I don't think that's really a controversial thing to say. I would say that if Marcus Zuckerberg were to be, you know, a top percentile maugger,

Starting point is 00:16:40 then he would be even more successful. I would disagree with that. I would say that if he's so attractive, people might not take him as seriously. And that part of the reason he did so well is because people see him as a quote-unquote nerd. And they see his face and his style. And they associate that with someone who's really good at tech. And if he were a model-looking dude, I think he would be passed up on a lot of opportunity. Just because they're like, oh, a dude, this good-looking can't possibly create this whole social network.

Starting point is 00:17:09 Versus the dude who fits the part. I think it's really just about looking the part. And I would argue and push back for you. I think you would benefit the most from taking like comedy classes and stand-up classes and work on charisma more so than looks. Because just objectively, I see you. So, Jeff said, Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette.

Starting point is 00:17:42 with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Probably, but I... I've never heard of that.

Starting point is 00:18:01 You just make that up? Is that a thing? Yeah, jester maxing. It's a thing. Doing comedy shows. I think, yeah, because I look at you, and I'm like, dude, you probably, you did probably 98% of the work

Starting point is 00:18:12 you're done as long as you just hit the gym and moisturize your face. That's it. And then charisma and comedy and being, you know, just self-amused at things. And like that, to me,

Starting point is 00:18:26 would take you a lot further. Okay, I see. So, you know, obviously that's completely cope about the Mark Zuckerberg thing. But even if it wasn't, that's just one, you know, anecdote, right?

Starting point is 00:18:38 But we're talking about across the society, and general principles. People are going to receive you better and you're going to be more successful if you're good-looking. So even if you were correct, I don't really think it's even worth

Starting point is 00:18:50 necessarily going into a back-and-forth about just one specific antics. Here's another point I want to make because I'm not a tall guy. And they have these studies out there that say that for every inch you are, I think above like 5-10 or something, you make more money.

Starting point is 00:19:06 And it looks like on the surface, short people make less than taller people. And therefore, if you're taller, they make more money when they really got down to the study it was not due to the height but due to the confidence that person had and the taller the person the more likely they are to be confident and because they are confident they're more likely to take career risk and take risks in approaching people and because of that they feel more comfortable it was that as a differentiation and not the height itself yeah well because you know you think about evolution you know if you're taller you're

Starting point is 00:19:38 you know a biological dominator just intrinsically so of course you're going to be more confident but that's still correlated with looks right no i think it's correlated with confidence well you know the confidence stems from the looks from you being no i think the confidence stems from within if you believe in yourself and you have the you have the assurance that no matter what you put your mind to you'll be able to achieve when you're bigger than than the rest the average you know guy the rest of the population that's what I would say would be the main driver of your confidence levels. I would say that when you're bigger, you don't have to work as hard as if you have something to overcome. I think confidence comes from evidence. I know that most of my confidence was it had arrived

Starting point is 00:20:24 after I achieved some sort of like success. And so whether you're short and you work really hard and achieve material of success, the confidence is coming from that. If you're tall and you achieve, you know physical dominance like the confidence comes from that it's not just because you're tall it's not just because you know you're short it's it's kind of like through the evidence and you proving to yourself over time i see okay well yeah um agree to disagree there you know i would say that looks are just like the you know and all be all for opportunities so guys it's about that time of year where you start thinking about the next year and all of the things that you want to improve on things like getting healthier eating cleaner building better habits and actually sticking to a

Starting point is 00:21:06 routine. This is the moment everyone sets massive goals, but most do not have a system that actually helps them follow through. That's why today's sponsor, Bevel Health, is perfect for starting this New Year's strong. It turns your iPhone or Apple Watch into a complete health hub, tracking your sleep, nutrition, workouts, recovery, stress, and habits all in one clean, connected dashboard. What seriously makes Bevel stand out is the AI. It's not a passive tracker. It actually learns your goals, understands your routine, checks in throughout the day, and gives you real-time insights so you actually know how your body's doing. It could even build personalized workouts based in your goals, how much time you have, and what equipment you own. And the nutrition tracking is

Starting point is 00:21:43 next level. Just describe your meal or snap a quick photo, and Bevel identifies it immediately from over 6 million verified foods. And if you're concerned about it, privacy is built into everything. Your health data stays on your device. It's encrypted and anonymized, so only you have access to it. With over a million downloads and a 4.8 star review on the app store, Bevel is becoming the go-to app for people who want to take their health seriously in 2026. So start the new year off right and the best time is now because you can get 30% off the Beville Health annual plan at Bevel. Health and use code 2026 at checkout 30% off the Bevel Health annual plan. Every single time I've invested in my health, I have never regretted it. I highly recommend you guys look into it.

Starting point is 00:22:25 Again, that is Bevel.comth with a link down below in the description and use the code 2026 for 30% off an annual plan. Again, that is Bevel. dot health with the link down below in the description and make sure to use the code 2026. Enjoy. I would say I mostly agree that looks are very important. I agree with the halo effect. I think you're right on that. I think wasn't there some study that showed more attractive people get shorter sentences? Yes, and it's quite significant. It's around 40% shorter sentences. So it's clearly not inconsequential to look really good. I think the main part that we're disagreeing on, is that if you're really trying to like life max to speak the lingo,

Starting point is 00:23:09 then it would make more sense to spend a little bit more time developing some other skills that you could be lacking, pulling your overall like weighted score down more than like not having a perfect nose. Well, yeah, and I tend to agree with like a lot of like the Red Pill podcast guys on this. I just literally think there's the key nuance missing of looks being mentioned whatsoever. I almost never hear guys like, you know, Tate, like those type of figures. even mention it whereas i agree with all the stuff you guys are talking about like improving upon other

Starting point is 00:23:39 metrics becoming a more interesting person um you know focusing on business and you know maximizing your income this is all stuff that i talk about and heavily advocate for i just don't think it's necessarily the most important thing um and none of it's mutually exclusive so it doesn't matter whatsoever because looks maxing is not a time intensive thing whatsoever it's it's very simple it's just a principles to follow, like, you know, the main one being maintaining a low body fat, you know, so there's no, there's no conflict there with, you know, maybe working on your charisma. What are the most basic things someone can do to achieve maximum physical appearance? I would say that just as I mentioned, being lean, low body fat percentage is going to give you

Starting point is 00:24:26 such an advantage over the average, especially in a country like America with the obesity do rates, right? People are typically sitting between 20 to 30% body fat. So if you're able to really like shred yourself down to that 1012 mark, that facial angularity that you gain is going to serve you so well. So that's the easiest thing that you could do as well. And that's going to largely be about like 70% of what you could accomplish in terms of soft maxing is quite literally just being lean. And the next thing you could do that's a really big one is being tan, right? That's another health indicator and there's a lot of sexual preference surveys that suggest that this is the most optimal coloring for you know female sexual attraction what is the halo effect the halo effect is people

Starting point is 00:25:13 receiving you better your personality your interests your hobbies based on your appearance right so for example if two people were into video games and one of them was good looking and one of them was not. The good looking guy might be, oh, that's really interesting. That's a unique hobby you have. Might be how someone would react, and they might call the unattractive person playing video games, even though it's the exact same thing, just a nerd, a loser, you know? So that's an example. And when did you decide to go all in? I would say that it was an evolving process. It wasn't like, you know, one day I had like a girl break up with me and I'm like, okay, I'm doing looks maxing all in. It was kind of just as the information hit me, I applied what made sense to me.

Starting point is 00:26:00 I go about looks maxing in like a very objective way. I would say a lot of guys, like for doing stuff like the gym and self-improvement, it usually stems from some huge cope, whether it be just like a girl like breaking up with them or like, you know, just some type of motivation like that. and that's where you get a lot of like the losers like the cringe is from that rather than just like, okay, objectively this could make my life better. And when do you think you're going to peak

Starting point is 00:26:31 in terms of looks? I'm sure at a certain age there's going to be a bit of a decline. I'd say in like a year or two would probably be when that would occur. What needs to happen between now and then? Well, I'm getting jaw surgery soon. So that's going to be one of the biggest things.

Starting point is 00:26:46 And then just getting back into the gym because with content I've been really like at a loss with trying to manage my schedule, you know, doing these long live streams, doing like a lot of podcast appearances and like continuing to work out. So once I get those two things out in, I would say I'll be certainly nearing that. What's the surgery you're getting? A double jaw surgery. What is that? It's an osteotomy of the upper maxilla and lower mandible. Just dumb it down for me. I don't know what any of that. So they basically make a cut on the lower jaw and then move it forward and apply screws. And same with the upper jaw.

Starting point is 00:27:23 It's like a, it's called a Lafort Ossiotomy. They cut long your interior nasal spine and then advance your jaw forward. It's like they actually have to break your jaw. Why? How many points do you think you're going to go up on the one through ten scale after getting that surgery? 1.5. How did you come to 1.5 points?

Starting point is 00:27:42 What do you rate yourself out of 10? I don't. I don't. But if you move up one in a. a half. Is that like out of 10? Yeah, I would say that that's generally how much people improve from bimax, from what I've seen. How much is that going to cost? 35,000. Oh, what's the recovery like? It's pretty brutal, I'd say, for the first three weeks, then after that you just have residual swelling that kind of subsides over like a three to six

Starting point is 00:28:08 month period. Has anyone tried to talk you out of this? Yeah, pretty much everyone, like parents and stuff like that, just copers, normies. The only thing that I see with you, again, just objectively, is that if you do the surgery, your views are going to shoot through the roof because people are going to want to tune in to see, okay, what happens. So you'll make the money back. So it'll be a free surgery. Yeah, no, of course.

Starting point is 00:28:33 The downside is if the surgery goes wrong, in which case your views double from what they would be otherwise but beyond just more of a shock factor yeah no I absolutely understand that perspective and um usually when people are trying to talk me out of the surgery they've you know often never heard of it before um so I've done a lot of research into this I wouldn't be choosing this like as a way to just like get attention and get views I like there's no way I would permanently disfigure myself for that reason and I decided upon jaw surgery for reasons other than social media like I didn't start doing social media up until like a few months ago so I was already dead set

Starting point is 00:29:19 on on this course of action far before then do you think there could be a point though where you do certain surgeries and it makes you less attractive like a lot of people lately have been talking about Bradley Cooper right he had a facelift is that everyone or Zach Ephron right well yeah that's just incorrect surgical choices they're you know Zach Ephron is doing filler, which doesn't dissolve, it migrates, right? So you do filler into your cheekbones, slowly migrates down your face into your buckle region. It's just going to make you look like a bloated pig, right? So, of course, you know, if you go about things the wrong way, if you go to surgeons, you know, incorrect procedures, yeah, that can happen. But it's, you know, people like my self's job

Starting point is 00:30:03 to advocate for, you know, proper surgical intervention and actually doing things the right way. would say overall as a message to spread, this could be good, but it's more than likely bad, at least to that degree. I'm curious, if you were to spread a message to a million people, so know that some people will take it in the right way, some people will take it in the wrong way, what is the exact message that you want to spread to them in terms of looks maxing, in terms of what you're comfortable with? I think people should just be more aware of self-improvement in general, not necessarily, you know, taking it to the extreme that I do without, you know, going through the ringer with just stuff like getting lean, going to the gym. I think you should

Starting point is 00:30:48 start there, see what you can accomplish and slowly build an understanding. And then, you know, you want to come back and take a look like maybe things still aren't going so well for you because there is this huge purgatory zone where even like the average to above average looking man who's, you know, got a decent job, can't even find a sexual partner, right? And that's been well researched, like two-thirds of men, 18 through 21, haven't had sex in six months, right? So it's very difficult in today's society. So pushing the limits isn't necessarily something I'm super against advocating for,

Starting point is 00:31:22 but I would say that you really have to know yourself as an individual to make sure you're not going to take things too far or go about it incorrectly. See, I don't think there's a looks thing. I don't think it's just like people are now all of a sudden more unattractive than they were in the past. I think it's more of just that people aren't talking. They're not making the effort. They're chronically online. And if they were to make an effort to go and talk to people in person and work on their personality, they would go so much further.

Starting point is 00:31:47 Well, that's the thing. It's funny you mentioned chronically online because that's the problem. But for a reason that you might not have acknowledged is because you're not only competing with people in your immediate surroundings. You know, hypergamy would exist where maybe every single girl in a town would go for, like, you know the top five um chads or whatever but that's only in your town now with instagram you have a competition with NFL football players sometimes right because uh they're flying these girls out it's sort of globalized dating and that's an awful thing if you're just like

Starting point is 00:32:23 the average dude and you have to compete with um you know like tom brady who's dm a girlfriend on it's like there's no there's no way to win right so that's why it looks maxing but i but then why not use that to your advantage? Why not be a dude who's interesting, who's posting great pictures on Instagram, and then you could become almost the same thing as that? No, as Tom Brady or like a football player? No, as someone who could get girls online too. No, no. It's about the status and not necessarily about like building a good Instagram profile, even if you've got like a few thousand followers, like, you know, if someone like, you know, even myself with like the Instagram profile that I had, well, I guess before I got banned, we're like DM a girl. It doesn't matter if my Instagram

Starting point is 00:33:09 is like perfectly like NT and I'm like doing all these neurotypical and doing all these activities. It's just about the number and like the clout that comes with it. Okay. So this is a part where I would like to fight back a little bit. I do think that there's a little bit of like a self-selected group of people that live here in South Florida. For the record, we are at Ben Mala's place. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Ben, for letting us be here. We're in South Florida, and I do think that the average type of person that lives here may look for different things than the average type of person coming out of, you know, Arkansas or coming out of California or coming out of New York or coming out of Montana. Like they're all, you know, maybe if you do all of those things to the extreme measure, you're going to be more popular in this location with this type of person. But would you acknowledge that there are communities of people that have different interests?

Starting point is 00:34:01 Yes, I would say that you're spot on with that. Miami is like the most degenerate city like I've ever like lived even near. That's why I don't even, I can't even live in Miami. I have to live in Delaware each about an hour north just because of how bad things are down there. But I didn't build this worldview in Miami. I only lived here for about two months. So these were observations that I began making living in my small town in Massachusetts, right? I noticed that from time to time I would take interest in a girl and should be followed. by like a ridiculous like status monger and that was like okay this globalization of dating is really people over you know so that's kind of how i i had figured that out but maybe a girl that would take interest in a guy like that in the first place would that be your first pick at a girl or once you realize okay your values are in this area you know maybe there's less compatibility at least i know for myself if i would took interest in a girl and yet she was followed by all these DJs and she's following them. I'm like, ah, like, I don't really know if that's something I'm interested in. Right, but I mean, like, at the end of the day, women are always looking for,

Starting point is 00:35:08 like, you know, the next best thing. They're extremely hypergamous in nature. And, you know, maybe you're able to beat this, you know, issue and find a good girl who's maybe not even on Instagram. We're talking about a societal issue. I think it really just depends on the type of person you're talking to. Because it really depends on how they grew up, their priorities. Right, but he's saying it's a societal, broadly speaking, bringing up a specific... Right, so I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't find a girlfriend who's wonderful, you can't get married and start a great family in 2025.

Starting point is 00:35:44 I'm just saying it's become increasingly difficult. And from the last generations, dating has really took a turn for the worse, and I am speculating that it's going to continue to become more and more hypergamous. So, you know, you are right that you can find... great girls with great upbeings, but just as a general rule of thumb, because I like to look at the black pill on lookism in a very societal sociological context. What's lookism? Lookism is just treating people differently based on their looks. So it's sort of like a ha-o-office. It's like racism but for looks. What are all these pills? I don't understand what a

Starting point is 00:36:23 black pill is. The black pill is, it's an idea about genetic determinism, and it stems from like the matrix like you take the red pill and then you stop living in fantasy land it's like the idea behind it so like you could swallow all these different pills for like these different ideas and like you kind of unlock them so um you know and people will make memes about it they'll like you know say like you could for example take like the i don't even know take like the haircut pill and just like to memeify that yeah sure like getting a haircut will say there's something like that, or like the pill would be like another just like meme version of it. And that would mean that like getting is the best thing you could do for your life.

Starting point is 00:37:09 Yeah, yeah, exactly. So like you're peeled, like you're in tune with that idea. So what's the difference between black and red pill? So black pill is like genetic determinism. It's saying like your life is going to go a certain way based on your genetics, whether or not you're good looking. And the red pill suggests that you could actually improve upon your base. You can change your life. And it's more of like a improvement mentality. And the black pill is more of like a dumer mentality. So the black pill is more correlated with the lux maxing space because a lot of it is like in cells who have like a lot of, you know, self resentment and kind of stuff like that. So that's why it's there. But I think

Starting point is 00:37:52 black pill extremism is, you know, comes from extreme cognitive dissonance. They don't really understand the world at all. So I would say that I'm kind of like somewhere in the middle of like the red pill and the black pill. I think that a lot of what suggested in the red pill, which is like, oh, you could just like go to the gym and, you know, you'll be able to send your life, you know, but you're talking to people with like, you know, genetically low intellect who are extremely subhuman. I think that's, you know, very dishonest. But I definitely think that there's room for improvement for everyone. What's subhuman? Subhuman is a term that we use in like the Lux Max community for like a horrendously ugly people. Where would they fall on the scale of like

Starting point is 00:38:40 one to ten? Is that like below a five? Yeah. Traditionally like around like a three. Can they not be subhuman? Like they could take themselves from subhuman to like optimal? Like what's the most that you could increase points from one to ten? Well that depends on whether or not puberty is in play. because you could jump like... Let's say you're 25. You're 25 and your subhuman. A 25 subhuman, I would say that 10 to 15 percentiles would be like the maximum if you're to like looks max

Starting point is 00:39:09 to the extent that I am. But besides that... Let's say naturally. Let's say you're in... Naturally today, you're 25 and you're a 4 out of 10. It depends on like where we are. Like if we're like a fat, you know, acne-ridden gesture, it's like, that's something that can be easily soft max.

Starting point is 00:39:26 So that would be a huge jump. So it's all... contextual i don't think it would be something i could give like a general principle for do you think it's possible to go from a four to an eight once again it's just very context oriented so i can give me an answer there but i would say that yeah sometimes it just depends on what's driving the scale up or down like if we were to take like i mean christian bail has even done that like when he uh goes for like movies like the machinist and gets extremely skinny or what's the one where he got extremely overweight for a movie role.

Starting point is 00:39:59 Oh, gosh. I know the one you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. Regardless. You guys get the idea, and then you have them, like, for American Psycho where he fully looks maxes.

Starting point is 00:40:06 So, like, that's afforded in an eight. Like, what are we talking about? But it's just why are you a four to begin with, you know, what is it your body fat or is it like your... Local news is in decline across Canada. And this is bad news for all of us. With less local news,

Starting point is 00:40:22 noise, rumors, and misinformation fill the void. And it gets harder to separate truth from fiction. That's why CBC News is putting more journalists in more places across Canada, reporting on the ground from where you live, telling the stories that matter to all of us, because local news is big news. Choose news, not noise.

Starting point is 00:40:44 CBC News. Phone structure. Yeah. You know, when it comes to gifting, there's a lot of things that people forget about. But giving the gift of better sleep is something you can't miss on. That's why we're proud to be sponsored by Cozy Earth. Their bedding and loungeware is seriously just,

Starting point is 00:40:58 nothing short of perfect. I mean, it's the kind of gift that you can give to someone, and they'll use it every single day, and whenever they use it, they'll think of you. Their bamboo sheet set is made from This Goes By Bamboo, which, no joke, is the most comfortable thing I've ever witnessed in my entire life. Like, you know, when you go to a really nice hotel

Starting point is 00:41:15 and they have these bed sheets, it's just like, you want to know where they got them? Well, no joke, these bedsheets by Cozy Earth are like that times 10. They're just that much better, and they've been so incredible that we actually give them out now as gifts to friends and family,

Starting point is 00:41:28 And the bed sheets are so comfortable that I don't want to wake up in the morning. Because I just don't want to get out of bed. They're that comfortable. And if you think I'm joking, you've got to try them out for yourself and see exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not lying. And everything comes with a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty, so it is completely risk-free. So give the gift of everyday comfort and effortless luxury.

Starting point is 00:41:48 All you have to do is head to cozy earth.com and use the code ICH for 20% off sitewide. And if you get a post-purch survey, be sure to mention to them that you heard about it here on the ice coffee hour because I want them to keep sponsoring us because I seriously, seriously love their product. So get it as a gift for someone that you love or someone you're trying to impress because they are very impressive or just get it for yourself because I can't emphasize enough. I cannot wait to get into my cozy earth comforter every night. This is comfort that lasts way beyond the holidays and it's something you really appreciate. So again, that link is down below. Enjoy.

Starting point is 00:42:19 Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months? The thing is for us, we are somewhat of like a self-improvement podcast. I like to think that people can tune in. They can learn something about finance. They can learn something about the gym. They can learn something about health, whatever it may be. That's what the goal is here. And obviously, you've been rising in the ranks of like self-development extremely, extremely fast.

Starting point is 00:42:43 So we just couldn't ignore you. Right. Okay, like, you know, this would make sense to have clav on the podcast. But I'm curious, like, why you have such an attractive personality to so many people out there. I would say because of my authenticity. with everything that I do, even if it's something that might make me look or be perceived a little worse. I just really don't care about being like a PR-trained influencer. I blow brand deals all the time, you know, just by, you know, being authentic. I'm not like performative for the cameras.

Starting point is 00:43:16 It's not like I have to go around having people like sign NDAs who are, you know, I'm hanging out with off-camera because I'm the exact same person, regardless of what I do. And I would say that that offers like a huge advantage based on like what people are used to with most influencers are like very performative a lot of the time. Like the virtue signal about political issues. And I'm like the complete opposite of that. So people like that. And it's also something new that I'm mentioning because people have gone through, you know, the final boss of COPS and they've done. um you know like pick up artist like coaching and stuff like that or they've done um just regular fitness

Starting point is 00:44:03 and their life hasn't really changed in the way that they were promised by a lot of the old people in the manosphere and now i'm coming in and acknowledging like wait a second guys maybe it's not your personality maybe it's not your game um it could be something a little bit deeper you know so offering that new perspective i think has also risen me to fame and as well as my speaking abilities i think i could convey my message fairly well on podcasts. I tend to think it's just a bit of the, I'm going to go back to the extremism, that a lot of people look at you objectively and say,

Starting point is 00:44:35 okay, you're a good looking guy who doesn't need to do these things, but then you're taking that already to an extreme at the same time that no one else is really doing the looks maxing thing to your degree. So you have like this first mover advantage with a really unique package and a really unique style to it. personally what I think it is. Because I remember when I first saw you,

Starting point is 00:44:58 I think it was you were at the gym and I thought maybe you were joking about like snorting something before working out and I'm like, what the fuck? There's no way. And then you go down that rabbit hole a little bit and then I realize like wait a lot of people are listening to you. Yeah, so the thing

Starting point is 00:45:15 was like one of the more extreme looks maxes. Once again, I heavily advocate against what was that? Well, to explain this for people who haven't seen it. So as I was rising to fame, right, I was like, okay, I really need to cash in and capitalize on this, like, you know, jump in exposure that I'm getting, you know, from a lot of different collaboration. So I was like, okay, I need to ascend as quickly as possible. So what I did was I suppressed my appetite to an extremely high degree with, so. Like actual, like, we're talking about, like, the street.

Starting point is 00:45:52 No, not true. talking like, like, Adderall or we're talking like? Talking dextram. So, yeah. So it's,

Starting point is 00:46:01 it's not quite, like, Adderol would be like dextra amphetamine. Yeah. And dextram. So like, what would the main difference

Starting point is 00:46:10 between those two be? There's just the addition of the group, which makes it longer acting, more psychoactive, and, um, just cross your blood brain barrier fairly quicker.

Starting point is 00:46:20 And then what about the difference between that and street? Street. it has different isomers in it. So there will typically be like more L versus, you know, deoxin, which is like the dextram. It would be D. So just like the different isomers kind of do different things like the L.

Starting point is 00:46:42 Isomers much more of like a physical like tweaker stimulus. That's where you see like the hobos on the street tweaking off of L. So do you think that establishing that distinction is important at all? because I do wonder if you just say, oh yeah, I'm doing, you know, then kids are going to watch and they're like, okay, like, let me go over to this guy hanging out at the bottom of this fence

Starting point is 00:47:01 and see what he's got, you know, because I'm trying to look like clav when in actuality, it's not exactly that, but obviously colloquially, we always think of, you know, as that. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm always very quick to clarify, but the issue that you run into is people just clip things out of context. So it's like, but also at the end of the day,

Starting point is 00:47:21 if someone stumbles across like short form media and they're like okay like i'm gonna start doing like that's just darwinism at the end of the day so like you know what i mean so uh i'm not gonna sit here and act like i'm some like uh influencer like i'm not i'm not i've never claimed to be i'm just simply someone who uh doesn't like the inconvenience of having to uh conceal the the things that i do um when i'm a full-time live streamer so why did you do that you do that though what was the objective what was the goal of facial leanness to get leaners to do you what do you mean it's just start well also for like the psychoactive benefits right so uh increasing my productivity so when i was up and coming with like the whole streaming game

Starting point is 00:48:08 and when i was doing my youtube videos i could just be more productive couldn't couldn't you do that with like pre-workout or coffee i mean yeah you could but i mean like it's comparing like you know creatine to you know did you get this idea of doing from anyone else online no so you came up with this um yeah pretty much and what was the logic behind coming up with it like how did you read a forum or where did that information come about um well i just i mean i've always been like kind of a stem maxer and i was that like a stimulant user okay simulam maxer so i'm a boomer i'm a boomer i was

Starting point is 00:48:48 I'm 35, and so it's like a new world. I would typically stem max with, and that's just like was a cope, that's like a physical stimulant. It's horrible for your heart, all right? You know, you're blocking the sodium channel. You could have a heart attack in a second and die. But a lot of the was often laced with like infatamine salts anyway.

Starting point is 00:49:11 And then I, for the first time, tried street. like what i would say like almost a year ago and i was like wow this was like extremely longer acting and i'm like wow like i haven't eaten in like a day so that was that was the only time i did because um you know i was like okay i don't really want to do this like this is this is not great and then um you know as i started coming into more of reality i i was like okay like this is i acknowledge it is bad but like i need to get lean as quickly as possible so this is like this is like i like kind of a weird, unique situation, and this is a weird method.

Starting point is 00:49:49 Like, I don't advocate- How are you getting it? Well, I mean, I'm not going to talk about sourcing, but once again, I heavily advocate against immemate usage. I think that if most people with their willpower get adderil prescriptions, they're going to misuse them. They're going to just take adderall to get high. So that's why I say, like, do not take-

Starting point is 00:50:10 So you would be, you're the exception that you feel like you could control it, use it. Well, I've got strong willpower, right? I mean, it's incredibly addictive. You see people's lives get quite literally ruined. If you say you have strong willpower, couldn't you have the willpower then just to get the work done without the... Well, there's no reason to do so, you know, because it becomes more optimal to do it a certain way, so it just makes no sense to... When's the last time you did?

Starting point is 00:50:38 I would say about two weeks ago. I haven't done any... I haven't been drinking. And I always do that as like, you know, a tolerance break and just kind of a litmus test to see, like, okay, like I'm still good. Like, I'm not actually like dependent on stimulants. So I'm just like, okay, I'm not going to take any stimulants. I'll do no caffeine even for like a while. Just kind of reset myself.

Starting point is 00:51:01 What are the things you've done along the journey of looks maxing that you would not recommend for the viewers? I would say that that's probably a big one. Stimulence for appetite suppressants. I would not advocate for that. I would say that the testosterone thing, to a large degree, you can wind up putting yourself over because the aromatization into astrodial

Starting point is 00:51:23 can actually cause your growth plates to close prematurely. So if you're not carefully managing that aromatization, taking something like an aromatase inhibitor, you could wind to, I wind up actually screwing yourself quite significantly. Is there anything that you've done that you regret doing?

Starting point is 00:51:39 Hmm. Is there anything that I regret? regret doing. Hmm. There's nothing that, like, went horrendously wrong, per se. Is there anything you wouldn't do again? Not really. I mean, just, like, the higher doses of testosterone, I wouldn't have done trin again.

Starting point is 00:51:53 I did trin for, like, two or three weeks, and that caused my hair to really, like, take a big hit. I mean, I recovered, but, like, try and I definitely regretted. What would you consider to be too far? I don't really think that there's, like, going too far, unless. you're causing detriment to your health unless something is looks manning you in another metric. So it's like, I don't really understand that premise. Do you think that would do detriment to your health? Well, in high doses, it's extremely neurotoxic.

Starting point is 00:52:28 Yeah, dopamine toxicity is a very real thing. So if you take high doses of any dopamine release stimulant, then, yeah, it's neurotoxic. I heard on Bradley Martin, you were doing stuff to your downstairs. Yeah, I was doing like shopping bag hanging and like pumping. I haven't really been P-E-maxing since I just- What is that? P-Nancement. I haven't been doing that as of lately, but that was something I did last year in 2024. How do you, is there, is there like a forum that you see this?

Starting point is 00:52:58 Yeah, R-slash getting bigger. I could refer to like Leon Longevity, does a lot of stuff, Connor Murphy. I would say are more like veteran like P-E-Maxers to refer to. I certainly have made content about it and sort of the things that I did, but I wouldn't really classify myself as like an expert in that field. Jack's been told that it doesn't really matter how big it is, just it's how you use it. Well, there's like what women say and like what they actually do. So on soft maxing, because I like talking about this because I think it's something that I have a more strong endorsement of. You're not like permanently changing anything about your body.

Starting point is 00:53:34 You're just trying to get in better shape. you're maybe trying to, I don't know, do some light work to your face, like fix your eyebrows, get a good hairstyle, nice clothing that fits. I'm curious for going to the gym, if you're trying to develop your physique into the most physically aesthetic physique possible, what are the best workouts to do that? So I would say it's more about like principles rather than workouts. And people have gotten this so wrong for so many years in the gym fitness community is like just a joke to me because they don't understand about like training free.

Starting point is 00:54:05 and what's actually optimal for hypertrophy. I would say up until about 2022, everything was so far from the truth. Like even from fitness figures that I liked, like doing like the eight hour arm workouts like from Rich or like people would even say you have to do like 100 curls before you go to sleep. So your body is like thinking about producing muscle.

Starting point is 00:54:25 Like the whole thing is just like such a joke. So, you know, simply what I'm telling you guys is if you actually look at the literature and you know the studies on like EMG activation, what you find out is doing something that's high frequency with low volume is the most optimal way to induce hypertrophy. So what would be the perfect workout for a physique right now? So the perfect workout split, I'll say that, would be like an upper lower split where you go, you do your upper body and then you do your lower body the next day with generally low amounts of set volume. So that would look like, you know, maybe two sets for your chest,

Starting point is 00:55:06 and then you alternate between these two muscle groups, and that's going to induce the best results. What do you think all the billionaires are doing to get shredded? Like a Jeff Bezos. Oh, they're usually doing TRT and Ozempic. Jeff Bezos is a classic case of TRT and likely a GLV-1. So this is just like all these designers, billionaires have been using them for about two years now,

Starting point is 00:55:30 and now they're kind of like available to the normies. like the mainstream and even myself I've been using these things talking about them for the longest time now I see like even moms like driving around minivans doing TikTok lives promoting gLP ones and ozempic it's just quite comical to me because it's like okay you guys kind of stole my talking points here what do you think jack and i should do to looks max oh um I mean I just I would what do you think I would say that um the the best way to looks max and like increase your demomorphism would be taking testosterone. That's a really phenomenal way to not only increase your dimorphism in the face, but increase your presence, your frame. Those are all, you know, amazing things that you could do.

Starting point is 00:56:13 And it's not a huge time investment, not a lot of financial burden there. So just getting like the most comprehensive understanding of and, you know, all the exogenous hormone usage. And then implementing that can go a long way. Okay, so we're not going to do that. We're not going to do any, like, exogenous stuff, we're not going to ourselves with anything. What about just soft maxing? What would you say is the best thing we can do? I'd say that getting a tan would be probably the next best thing. It's so funny.

Starting point is 00:56:41 Jack, just as to as to- Yeah. Yeah. So, you and I have to do that again. I mean, and I would I know you guys aren't going to do anything, but there are things you could do to tan quicker. I mentioned that this morning. Yeah. Like the melanotan tattoo? Okay, well, yeah. So that's a one. All you're doing

Starting point is 00:56:57 is preventing premature aging mechanisms by inducing melanogenesis so that, you know, the amount of UV exposure drastically decreases. So that seems like a very logical thing. And that's going to decrease your chances of getting skin cancer. And there's really no side effects. You know, the only side effects that occur from melanoc 102 would be like acute nausea, but long term, it's perfectly healthy.

Starting point is 00:57:24 Okay. So if you're going to observe Graham first, what can he do to look as best as possible? glory um well i mean it looks like i can't really tell too much but it looks like your hair lines are seating a little bit yeah yeah so i would start with like a hair line a hair loss protocol would be a good place to use fanasteride okay well even due to house might be a little bit better there's less chance of like the libido related issues so i would switch over to dot take monocidal to regrow everything um and like you know obviously like a double jaw surgery you would certainly qualify for.

Starting point is 00:58:03 So I would- You could be brutally honest. There's nothing you're gonna say that don't hurt my feelings or anything. I would say like double jaw surgery. Like the two jaws are a little bit recessed. So I'd start there. But then where do you finish?

Starting point is 00:58:17 Like what would you keep doing? Well, you kind of have to just take it one step at a time and implement. Let's say do that and then what's next? Well, you know, increasing the physique, fixing up the coloring, like giving yourself the proper undertones. I mean, like, giving you like a looks maxing protocol, I could sit here for four hours, you know what I mean? Oh, it's that bad.

Starting point is 00:58:38 He needs to shopping bag a lot more. No, it's not that it's that bad. Like, everyone can improve. Like, I could generally sit and do a seminar, like, talking about lux maxing for, like, hours on end. Like, there's really no limit to how long we could talk about it. And what would you do with Jack? I would say that in principle, it's like very similar for, like,

Starting point is 00:58:58 like a lot of people. It's just like the only difference for looks maxing would be like maybe there's specific things person to person like, you know, perfecting the phenotype. So, you know, once again, it would just really take too long to like go into each individual. If there's like three things on Jack, three things on me, you're like, these three things would get you the biggest benefit. Okay. Yeah. So both of you, you more so, could certainly benefit from, like, you know, taking things like crotenoids because you really lack, like, their reddish, like, undertones. That's, like, a health indicator that indicates, like, proper blood flow. Um, would be certainly something that's good, like a crotenoid blend. You could usually buy those on Amazon. So what's that, too?

Starting point is 00:59:46 Just make me look a little lively or less like a vampire. Like, a little bit healthier. Okay. Like, basically, like, frauds, like, good blood circulation, like a lycopene. masticanth, you've probably heard of like, you know, undertones, carotenoids, no? Like eating sweet- No. Eating like different fruits, like in,

Starting point is 01:00:04 induce different colors. You never heard about this? Never. Okay, well, yeah, so you could either do that from foods or just taking supplements all over the counter. That's like soft max normy stuff. Okay. I would advocate for monoxidil,

Starting point is 01:00:17 certainly to grow back your hair. And definitely like a double jaw surgery would be a good place to start for you. And for Jack, I would say that the melanotan peptide would be really good. You know, maybe depending on your masseter setness, I tell people like if you've got a super high set master, don't take this advice. But if your master is lower set in your jaw and, you know, what you want to do is chew because it's going to increase your bigonial width. But that's just like a case dependent thing. So you kind of have to see like where your masseter sits on your ramus to determine whether or not that'll work.

Starting point is 01:00:56 It's possible that that would be something that could ascend you quite significantly. And I don't know how... You're a hairline jack? Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, quite good, actually. So... See, as a white guy, I know we already have, like, naturally you're going to have a bit of a V. Right, yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:12 No, you have perfect hairline, yeah, okay. And the next thing that you could do, I don't know how old you guys are. I'm 35. Take a guess. How old am I? Oh, I should have you guessed. Damn. Are you, you're probably over your 30s, around, no?

Starting point is 01:01:27 I'm 27. 27, okay. So what I would do for, like the under eyes, usually the first thing to start to go, because the way that works is, you know, facial fat redistributes down your face and starts to migrate with gravity. So under eye concealer is like a good way to, like, you know, kind of slap a band-aid on the solution. No one's going to know that you're fucking doing it.

Starting point is 01:01:49 So all actors, celebrities are doing this shit anyway. So that's like another good soft max. Those are just three like, you know, quick, easy soft maxes. I appreciate that. I think that those were the things I would probably do for myself as well. I think these are pretty egregious. Graham and I both have pretty bad eyebags. What do you think about Botox?

Starting point is 01:02:07 I'm a big fan of Botox, but people go about it wrong. It's not something that you could do after you've already achieved or after you already aged and, you know, accumulated wrinkles. It's a preventative measure because the wrinkles occur as you express your face. So it's about preventing that. Have you done Botox at all? Yeah, I've done Botox. Yeah, just one time. But it's just at a medspa and that I've done it myself a few times after that.

Starting point is 01:02:33 But it's just very difficult to maintain. It was expensive at the time. And it's just like a time burden that I don't necessarily have. Like, I'm not really that expressive anyway, so it doesn't really matter for me. What about sun damage? Just like wearing sunscreen outside. Yes. So American sunsbury.

Starting point is 01:02:51 screen is SPF, right? But SPF only protects you against UVB rays, whereas the UVA is actually one of the most aging rays as well. So you need SPF with PA+++, which is another mechanism of protection. It's typically found in like Korean sunscreen brands. That's why they generally age better than us, you know, white boys. So, you know, going with proper sunscreen is, is another thing that you could do that really will make sure you age quite better than your average person. Do you ever worry that someone might follow your advice and maybe hurt themselves? Yeah, that's why I'm very careful to advocate for some of the more intensive looks maxes, unless they're either under direct supervision or have done the research to have a fully comprehensive grasp.

Starting point is 01:03:43 Like, sometimes I'll talk to viewers and do like viewer segments on Discord, and people will start asking me about like tests, I'll be like, I can tell right away. I'm like, you haven't done your research. So I don't tell people to jump the gun and just like go around haphazardly promoting people to take exogenous hormones. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's very difficult because, you know, you could say that and people could still take your advice. But at the end of the day, I still just want to be able to be open and honest with what I'm doing. So unfortunately, that's kind of a tricky thing to navigate. Yeah, what was going on?

Starting point is 01:04:22 I saw a clip on Twitter of you. Some girl on stream. Yeah, those were liposis agents, so called aquilux, right? It's a fat dissolver, and we were, like, doing localized liposis, essentially. Why? Because we're going for more facial leanness, killing fat cells. Are you qualified to somebody like that? Um, well, I'm not like a nurse PA if that's what you're asking, but what makes someone qualified to something that's got essentially no risk profile? You know, I would say that this might be a little bit egotistical, but I would say I'm probably much more qualified than your average PA who's doing it. You know, I would say that they really don't have a comprehensive understanding of what the fuck they're doing at all.

Starting point is 01:05:13 Now, really quick, let's be honest. A lot of the big phone carriers these days are stuck in the past. I mean, let's face it, $100 a month for a phone service that barely changes during a time when people are saving for the holidays. It's insane. That's exactly why our sponsor Helium Mobile is flipping the script when it comes to wireless because they're actually offering a phone plan for free, which is perfect for the season of giving. Isn't that right, Graham? Like Jack said, there's zero plan, $0 a month. Yes, you heard that correctly. It's free with no contract, no credit card required, no catch.

Starting point is 01:05:46 Just download the app, bring your own phone and phone number, and you're set. And for kids, Helium Mobile has a phone plan starting at just $5 a month. This is perfect for peace of mind when they're going to school or practice. Parents could still keep full control, and when your needs grow, you could upgrade to the Air or Infinity Kids plan. On top of that, Helium Mobile actually pays you back with these things called cloud points, which is just think of it like credit card points because you can redeem them for e-gift cards to places like Apple, Sephora, Amazon, and more.

Starting point is 01:06:15 And this is all while running on nationwide 5G and the Helium Community Powered Network, which is kind of like the Airbnb of Telecom, which is exactly how they keep their costs low without sacrificing coverage. So stop overpaying for phone service. Click the link down below in the description to get started today and download the Helium Mobile app for iOS or Android. Enjoy. Now, when Jack and I first started the Ace Coffee Hour, we have to figure out everything ourselves, from the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to get guests. Every day was a new challenge.

Starting point is 01:06:44 That's why if you're thinking about starting or growing a business, but you find yourself saying, oh, I'm just going to start that next year, our sponsor, Shopify is the best way to get moving. Maybe you have an idea that you just can't seem to shake, or you have a product that people keep asking you for, or you've already built a store in your head. Shopify is the platform that will take it from an idea into something real. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell both online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made the leap from big names like Mattel and Jim Shark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started from scratch. And building your store could genuinely not be any

Starting point is 01:07:19 easier. Shopify gives you hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand with no coding needed or headaches. Set up is really fast too. Shopify's AI tools even help you write product descriptions, headlines, and enhance your photos so that that way you look professional right from the very beginning. Plus, marketing is already built in. You can run simple email and social campaigns to reach customers wherever they're scrolling all from the same dashboard where you manage. store. So in 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. So sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash ICH. Again, that is Shopify.com slash ICH with the link down below in the description to get started today. Enjoy. So we previously had Greg Doucette on the podcast.

Starting point is 01:08:03 Oh, geez. He sent over a few questions he wanted to ask. Claviculum. I thought you were all about looksmacting. Why are you wearing a burberry belt while training at the gym. When did I do that? Oh, actually I do remember. Why am I wearing a burberry belt while training at the gym? Dude, I believe I did that on a live stream. We were just like trying on like some new young LA clothes and like they didn't fit my waist. I had to have belt max. So that was pretty cringe because they were, you know, kind of getting on me for not like, you know, doing the milestones of wearing the clothes. So I had a, that was like a last minute thing. Okay. Here's the next one. What part of looks maxing involves losing 15 pounds of muscle from avoiding going to the gym while sniffing creatine?

Starting point is 01:08:51 Answer me that. Dude, well, I mean, people don't understand the content grind. Like, I've been, you know, all over the place, like traveling, you know, grinding my ass off, trying to, you know, keep my momentum going. So that's absolutely not looks maxing. I've been looks minning. I've been actually looking like worse and worse, like as I started streaming. like I didn't sleep like last night really I was I was just streaming all night so a lot of what I've been doing recently is not like what I should be so is it safe to say now that looks maxing is not

Starting point is 01:09:24 your north star I would say that like right now I'm still following like the same general principles but I'm just not doing like everything I should be necessarily like I'm trying I'm maintaining like my leanness like I'm doing all like the key things that are the most important but I'm just not taking it like that step further, like with, you know, going to the gym every day, like how there was would be. So, yeah, I guess you could say that, like, content is kind of taken over for, like, the time being, but I'm going to get back into, like, the swing of things. So if looks maxing is not your priority anymore, what would you say is? Content.

Starting point is 01:09:58 Content. Streaming. Content for the reason of what? Which is something that I'm doing. But I would say that it's not really just, like, looks maxing was just, like, the end-all-be-all. and now maybe like it's just pair on par with with content now but i still prioritize both of them to the best of my abilities but it's just very difficult and the way that i think about it it's like okay well i have to really grind for like and take advantage of the opportunity i had but right now

Starting point is 01:10:26 things are like getting a little easier like um i'm organized now i have my team so i have a little bit more time. So I'll certainly be getting back into the gym. So taking like a little hiatus from like working out and being like 100% on top of things, like that happens. You know. Go one last question for you. Claviculum. Have you ever taking your blood work? And if so, I challenge you to send it to me to see if you're healthy. If you're ascending, we want proof that you're healthy. If you haven't got your blood work done, get it done from Al Gorex. I'll make a video about it and show the world just how unhealthy you really are um i yeah i'd be fully down to to do that i haven't done

Starting point is 01:11:09 blood work in a little while so i don't have something that's like up to date enough with what i've been doing um but yeah i mean i did like a simple panel um like a few months ago i i guess we could send that over to him but i'll i'll be down to do a more updated one but i don't think coach gregg really knows like what exactly i'm doing i think he probably think he's probably is worse than it is, but we do like similar protocols. Like we're both on testosterone. Like, we're both on GLP-1s. Like, I don't, you know, and he does the same thing. I think he thinks I'm like a new togy figure who's like blasting like grams of gear. And it's just simply not true. What do you think of Greg Doucette? I think he's a jester and I think he's disingenuous about a lot of what he does

Starting point is 01:11:55 because think about it, right? He ascended and became an IFBBB pro from, doing something right he achieved his result he uh you know got a great physique and then now he does the content and he attributed to cope limits like cope supplements is what i like to call it so that just seems a little bit unfair um to to you know send your viewers down the path of like these random like nonsense like pills that don't do anything rather than like what actually gave you your results whereas i'm simply just being honest about it i'm like okay it was testosterone that got me or not you know egg dastorone or whatever yeah i can't really speak to the efficacy of like turkestrone or whatever you know pills or supplements he has um but i do generally agree with the sentiment he shared at least

Starting point is 01:12:45 when he was on our show which is like specific exercises workout routines and just eating eating healthy i know he has a cookbook which is totally fine too i mean if you obey the recipes that are in the cookbook i do think that it will have a positive impact on your physique yeah but at the end of the day it's not really as much about food selection as it is about macronutrients. So I think if he was like fully honest about like a lot of this stuff, it just would take a lot of, you know, market share off the table, which is why. And it's like, dude, I get it.

Starting point is 01:13:13 It's like you're an influencer, make your bag. But I just don't really like. And I would never like, I've even said anything had he not like called me out and like all over me. So I'm, I'm very okay with now being like, okay, this is like exactly what he's doing. It's just a marketing tactic. like he'll he'll attribute his results to garbage a lot of times and i i don't think it's right what do you think about togi i think toghi is uh is really funny i think he's a great

Starting point is 01:13:41 content creator um and he rage baited people i don't think toggy is as nearly as like unhealthy or just reckless as he makes it seem on his content i think he's like pretty intentional and diligent about like his protocols like i've talked to like his coaches and stuff it's really not that over the top, any of the stuff that he does. I would say that the reason his blood work was really bad, like the coach Greg reviews, was rec. So that's the one thing that you can't really do. And that's what I try to avoid is, like, rections at the same time

Starting point is 01:14:14 could be extremely unhealthy. Now, if content right now is your North Star temporarily, I'm assuming that's because you're doing well at it, and therefore you're making a decent amount of money. And then social media could be somewhat fleeting. and so you have a small little window to make the most of it. How much of looks maxing are things like a good watch, a car, a house? How much does this bring you up?

Starting point is 01:14:41 It's nothing to do with looks maxing. It's just a different measurement. That would be more like status or I would say that there's like the looks money status like triad, and that would just fall into those other categories. But aren't you looks macking, looks maxing for the sake of like making your life better. And so wouldn't the quality of your life not only be determined by looks maxing, but also like status maxing.

Starting point is 01:15:07 Of course. Yeah, no. But appearance too. Like if you walk in with a Richard Mill, I would say people would rate you overall more attractive than an Apple Watch. That's a pretty selection. I think they would serve you more respect. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:20 No, absolutely. Which isn't that why your looks maxing is like the halo effect? It's the status. Absolutely. But I'm not sitting here like looks or. the end-all be-all. Like, it's the easiest thing to jump a huge increase in percentiles, but I'm, of course, like, yes, go and status max. Go and get the nice car, get the nice house. I'm absolutely in agreement with you. Like, there's no point of contention there. So,

Starting point is 01:15:45 I would just say that the Richard Mill thing is comical. I think Richard Mills are pretty But what about driving like a really nice Ferrari or like getting a great car? I would say that there is no one on this podcast that can actually afford, or no one watching this that could afford a Ferrari. I think there's people who can buy Ferrari. Oh, I would disagree on this podcast. I would say at least 10% of the people watching could buy a Ferrari.

Starting point is 01:16:13 Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. They could buy a Ferrari, but they can't afford a Ferrari. Oh, no, they could afford a Ferrari. We have a very educated, business-oriented audience. You would be surprised right now. I don't know if I would say 10%, that seems like. I would say 10%. Pretty lofty.

Starting point is 01:16:28 The people who come to us afterwards who watch the podcast, I am blown away. 10% of them could afford. I am blown away. And have it be like a good idea to buy like a million dollar car. I wouldn't say a good idea, but I would say it for it. That's what I mean. They could buy it, but they can't afford it. Oh, no, they could afford it. I just don't think it's a good idea for everyone to buy a Ferrari.

Starting point is 01:16:45 Well, regardless, like, there's almost, there's not a lot of people, regardless of 10%, 5%, who can actually, like, get this car and have it be like a good idea until they're, like, into their 40s. I think that you could make a much larger return, taking that money and investing it into a plethora of different things. I don't think that having supercars and flexing them is really going to elevate you as much as people think it is, and for like how much you could be putting other things at a standstill. I think you could be advancing yourself, taking that money and investing it much differently would be a much better idea. See, I think in certain situations, actually a nice car could take you a very long way. Like, it really depends on how you use the car and what circles that gets you in.

Starting point is 01:17:37 Well, I'm going to speak, you know, from my perspective that when people drive, like, supercars, like, I would never, like, really do business with them. Like, if I see, like, a 20-year-old kid pull up in a Ferrari, I'm like, this is either you know, rented or just financial irresponsibility. So I'm like, nope. You know what I mean? Until you're like 30 years old, there's no, there's no shot.

Starting point is 01:18:04 You can like have a Ferrari and have it be a good idea. So your goal isn't necessarily looks maxing then. It seems like it's still sort of like status. It's all of them. They're not mutually exclusive once again. And I don't know why people make that mistake so

Starting point is 01:18:22 frequently that looks is just like the key part that was missing from the Manosphere conversation but all the other stuff is generally true but wouldn't you say though that you could maximize your status your aesthetics just your overall respect maybe that you get if you spent say a hundred percent of your income on super nice clothes watches cars a penthouse like you would technically ascend even higher access into better groups. Yeah, absolutely. No, you're absolutely right about that. I just don't think it's necessarily like a responsible idea. I think that a lot of people in Miami are, you know, like exactly what you

Starting point is 01:19:08 said, spending 100% of their income, having no savings at all. They're really not advancing themselves. Just to basically flex on people. It's like a lot of flex culture and I don't think that's good at all. You know, I usually know for a fact that these people aren't actually making the money that they claim. And the whole thing is just like, uh, sort of for, for show. And I think women kind of like realize this, like they know if you're, if you're moving well or not. And it's not going to be a car. Speaking of women knowing, what about then wearing makeup and wearing shoulder pads or lifts, lifts? These are all things that women could know, they could find out. I mean, they're the ones wearing makeup, they could probably detect makeup on a man's face. Yet this is something that you

Starting point is 01:19:53 would advocate for all three of those things. Yeah, but not, I mean, it's not the hardest thing in the world to kind of skate by, you know, I would say that, you know, it's probably on par with all these things that you're saying about like, you know, penthouses and Ferraris. It's like, I just don't think that that's necessarily a good idea to blow through like, you know, maybe a quarter million dollars a year renting out like a penthouse in Miami. Like that doesn't really sound like a good idea to me. But then what about these other things like makeup and shoulder pads and lifts? Like you still, you like those.

Starting point is 01:20:31 Is that correct or is that? Yeah, I think that there's use cases for them. Do you think that it's like you're playing a dangerous game there? Yeah, but the ROI I would say it's pretty good. Which one would you say it's highest with? Makeup. Yeah. So what do you do if a girl says,

Starting point is 01:20:49 Hey, are you wearing makeup? I don't think that would ever happen unless you're just like egregiously over the top with what you're doing. But let's just say in this hypothetical situation, a girl comes up to you, wow, you did a really good job concealing your eyebags. This episode is brought to you by Tellus Online Security.

Starting point is 01:21:05 Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms. But I've got Tellus Online Security. It helps protect against identity theft and financial fraud. so I can stress less during tax season or any season. Plan started just $12 a month.

Starting point is 01:21:24 Learn more at tellus.com slash online security. No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft. Conditions apply. Don't miss the devil wears product too in theaters. Merrill Street, Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt, and Stanley Tucci are back. In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility. I did not hire you, and all I need to do is bide my time until you've failed. On May 1st, icons.

Starting point is 01:21:47 I'm going to make something of this job. rain. The bridges I burn, light my way. Forever. I just love my job. Get tickets now. The devil wears prodot too. In theaters May 1st.

Starting point is 01:21:58 Directed by David Frankel. Then you just say thank you. Just don't spike your cortisol and then do a better job so it's more undetectable next time. You know, I know other looks maxers who have gotten like called out on shit. Like maybe you go to a bar, you sweat and it like leaks down your face. But it's just a skill issue at the end of the day, you know. Are you wearing any makeup right now? No, not right now. We're a little bit late to the podcast, but no, usually I would be fine doing that, though.

Starting point is 01:22:30 So what is the worst possible thing to get caught with as a guy? A hair system. So that is like a toupee we're talking. Yeah, like if you get caught, like wearing like a toupee and like it's over, like it's generally like finished like entirely. Have you seen that happen? No, no, I've never seen that happen. But there's no recovery from... Nope. It's done. It's just.

Starting point is 01:22:51 You just have to move on. Yeah. So what do you advise to people out there that are wearing hair systems? Does they just be like a professional and not getting caught? I don't know. Wouldn't it be better just to shave the head? What do you think about just like shaved heads? I don't think so.

Starting point is 01:23:06 I don't think so at all. I think the hair system's a good idea. Just know that if you ever like get caught, you're going to have to like move to a different country. Yeah, but what about like Jason Statham? Like just looks great with a shave head. Well, he's got a top percent off face, right? Of course he looks great with a shave. The rock.

Starting point is 01:23:21 Yeah, I look straight with a shaved head. Both great faces. It's like, but they would look better with like actually hair, you know. So like, of course, like good looking people look good with, you know, shaved heads, but they would look better with without. Do you think that you're misunderstood? Yeah. Yeah. And what do you think most people get wrong about you?

Starting point is 01:23:39 I think people think I'm just like impulsive and don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm very meticulous and intentional. I could see that you're very calculated with everything in life, which is hard. to juxtapose with like the usage and stuff like that just because 99.9% of people would consider anybody that touches any of that stuff maximally impulsive. Yeah. But you could be the very, very far edge case exception of those things, which is interesting to talk about, but also just in application, just so, in my opinion, dangerous. Oh, yeah. No, I absolutely agree. That's why I say, like, do not take Samaylan's not try to copy what I'm doing, you know. What do you think is a criticism about you that's valid?

Starting point is 01:24:27 Maybe that I could be, like, a little bit, like, cold sometimes or, like, maybe just, sometimes, like, I'll be mean or something, like, on live streams. I could be, like, a little bit more respectful and have, like, more humility, I guess, you could say um so people and you know that that's that's probably about about it and you know sometimes i get criticized for making like jokes about like serious situations like um you know like i've made jokes about like palestine and stuff like that but i don't and that criticism it's like yeah like i get like it's terrible but um it's just like that that's just the humor it's just i i mean no no disrespect like in action with what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:25:19 I just like to be able to make whatever jokes I want to make without any restriction or TOS violations. It's interesting because most people that I meet that are your age have a lot more like seemingly energy and like more upbeat and expressive. But you, I notice you're very like monotone, but like very calm. And I noticed even in a comment on your podcast with Brad Martin, like it had like 50 likes so it wasn't necessarily unpopular was like monotone clav is that something that you try to be to you know come across a little bit more calm and low cortisol or is it

Starting point is 01:25:58 nice nice acknowledgement yeah no that's um that's who i am i'm a very like level-headed like low cortisol person and when i'm trying to deliver my message in a serious context this is the tonality that i take right this is my long form um podcast stuff but obviously when i'm doing like an uh you know very casual setting like desktop stream or i'm streaming i rl maybe the energy will be a little bit different a lot of the times because i'm like hyped off off some stimulin or something or um whatever the case may be but yeah no if i want to if i want to be serious and like i have a conversation getting down to like the brass tax of like my ideology of course, you know, this is the tone I take.

Starting point is 01:26:44 What do you see to the people who say it's an unattractive trait to focus on being attractive? Well, you always have to conceal your intentions with looks maxing, right? Don't go around like me, obviously. I'm a public figure, so everyone knows what I do. Everyone knows that I hit myself in the face with a hammer. But as long as you're just not running around telling people, no one's going to know. So it doesn't really matter. Does that make permanent, is that a permanent solution?

Starting point is 01:27:11 to grow the, it's like the zygomatic endurance or whatever it is. Zygomatic bones. Zygomatic bones. Yeah. So it's these bones right here. Yep. Wolf's Law.

Starting point is 01:27:22 Like, we did a lot of research going into this. So you basically state that if you, similar to an MMA person shins, if you continually micro fracture, it will grow back stronger and larger. Correct. And so it's an attractive trait to have these protruding more.

Starting point is 01:27:36 Yeah, more prominent. And so that's something that you have done and you've noticed permanent. Yeah. Absolutely. Growth of those bones. Don't you think that could just be puberty, though, that you're, like, still developing your face

Starting point is 01:27:50 through the next, like, five years? I bone smash after puberty. See, I just don't even like that term, bone smash. It's, like, so, it's so grotesque. And honestly, for me, it's like, it's really funny. I just, I just wouldn't be able to do it. I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want my son doing it.

Starting point is 01:28:05 Like, I wouldn't want any of the viewers doing it. It's just so, like, oh. If Jack started doing this, I would prompt you to go to therapy. Yeah, it would be my first thing. It's extremely comical, bone smashing, yeah. Just like the name, now that you pointed that out, yeah, that is actually really funny.

Starting point is 01:28:23 But I don't know, like, do you hope more people bone smash? What is the goal? As long as there's no issues of head trauma, like if you properly brace your skull, I mean, it's not the worst thing in the world. It's pretty low risk. Have you gone to therapy, or has anyone suggested that you try therapy

Starting point is 01:28:40 before doing some of these things? No, that's never been something that's been necessary. I would love to do an introduction if you would like to with Dr. K. Yeah. Do you know who Dr. K is? Yeah. Healthy gamer. Would you speak to him?

Starting point is 01:28:54 Yeah, I would speak to anyone. But I don't really think my psychological well-being has ever been like an issue of mine. Like I'd say that, yeah, well, I may be neurodivergent. Like I'd say that's probably one of my strong suits and what makes me like able to succeed as a person. Well, I would agree with you on that. Would you say that being neurodivergent just makes you focus on one thing and wanting to just do that thing

Starting point is 01:29:20 and dive 100% into that? Yeah, I would say that's probably one of the main reasons why I am the way I am. And it just happened for you to be looks max. Correct. And before that, it was like, there was like a lot of political stuff. And I would say I was fanatical about that.

Starting point is 01:29:38 And then it just segued into looks, maxing. I tend to think I got to be a little on the spectrum for something. Because a while ago, I used to be really into a reef aquariums as a kid. And I got super into that. And then it was, I got super into doing real estate. And I got super into doing YouTube. And it's always like these different things that shift over time. And then I just, all I want to do is that thing. Last about 10 years. And then I find some new thing. I'm like, I'm going to get really good at that. Do you think that maybe you'll start to fixate on something else? Well, I mean, after I've achieved like my desired results and it just becomes like a thing of maintenance to looks max, like yeah, but that was always my intention was my intention is not to look max for the rest of my life.

Starting point is 01:30:21 It's to leverage my increase in looks for whatever I decide to do. Again, I would go back to it's less about because you will as you said what it was the term, assent, right? You're going to assent, 100%. I would say that's less to do with your looks and more to do with you getting out on social media, doing extreme things, that pushing you into a new category, getting a lot of views, a lot of money, which will then give you more opportunities. But I don't think it's the looks itself. You know, that's just something that we're never necessarily going to be able to agree. So for you, it'll be because of your looks, the better looking you will be, the more money you make, the more status you have. And that's due to the looks and not the content strategy. Well, no, I mean, both are true. Like, it's a little bit of everything.

Starting point is 01:31:08 If we were to put, like, a pie chart together of how exactly that would look, like looks, like personality, like content, drive, or motivation. I don't know exactly know how I would scale that up. But I would say that it's definitely a factor. So it's worth acknowledging, regardless of 60% of the pie, 50%, whatever. What do you think is more important to get women? Do you think it's status, money, or looks? Looks, absolutely, without a question. More than status.

Starting point is 01:31:40 Yeah, I mean, this is, but that's like another thing where it's like, okay, well, how good looking are you? Are you, like, professional actor level status? It's like, that's why that question, like, often it gets taken out of context and doesn't really make a lot of sense. But if we're talking about, like, okay, we're 80th percentile in Lux Money status, which metric is going to drive us the results that we're actually looking for? it's going to be the looks, right? Whereas if you're like, you know, 10 million followers on Instagram, you know, but you're not necessarily good looking, you might be able to beat out a guy who's better looking than you and, you know, less status. Would you say that you are good with women?

Starting point is 01:32:19 I like to hold myself to high standards, so I'd say there's definitely room for improvement, but I'd say I do very well for myself. How would you improve? A lot of the stuff with women is not how interesting you are at all, right? It's more. like just psychological like tactics like manipulating women really it's like a big part of it um so you know you don't necessarily have to be like this well-traveled guy able to talk about like his experience in Tokyo you just need to know about like how to spike different um you know neurotransmitters and women and how to you know keep their dopamine going like like that is is that a good or a bad way to attract a woman though it's it's the way to do it's the way to do it

Starting point is 01:33:03 whether it's good or bad, like morally good or morally bad. And it's like, I don't really know, but the goal is to get women. It's not necessarily like about me moral, you know. See, I've seen some of your streams, and I haven't seen any of those manipulation tactics. The only things that I've seen from you that seem to work is that you're very forward and that you'll just say what's on your mind, which might have a better result than tactics, unless that is the tactic. Well, that's just, that's trolling on a stream, you know, that's not really like a fair, like, way to show. And especially when, like, the camera rig that I use and like, there's, there's, like, 10 lights coming off. There's mics. It's, like, ridiculous. So women are not acting the way that they otherwise would be if I were talking to them in, like, an off camera context. Um, like, the camera makes it a lot harder because, like, women, like, want to, like, clout chase, like, look at me. I can see a lot of chicks on TikTok do this. It's like, like, I'm like,

Starting point is 01:34:01 I went to this house party where there was like literally multiple girls that I had, you know, slept with previously who want to be like performative for the camera, like, oh, I rejected clav, you know, so it's like, okay, bitch, like, you know, whatever. But that's still just, I like to think that that is like just the Miami crowd. I think that like the behavior will be different depending on where you're at, quite substantially. Like, I can't imagine. You're not wrong. And you're also going not only, you're not only, you're not only, you're not only, you're not

Starting point is 01:34:31 in Miami, but you're also going to house parties in Miami with influencers and with people that speak a certain way, act a certain way. So that's kind of like fringe behavior. Yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, but once again, I wouldn't exactly, like, say that what I'm doing or what I'm talking about is what I recommend people do, like the way that they talk to women. It's just I'm going for stream clips, you know, so it's not really even worth acknowledging that. How much do you consider morals with what you do and preach online? I'm like an end justify the means. Sorry, the means.

Starting point is 01:35:08 You know what I mean? So I don't necessarily care too much about like what I need to do to accomplish a result if that's what you're asking. So you're objective oriented and you don't necessarily care if what you're doing is right or if it's wrong. Uh-huh. Correct. Have you ever been in love? Um, that's hard to say. I don't really know. I'd have to think about that a little bit.

Starting point is 01:35:36 It's a tough one. What would you rate your happiness out of 10? I wouldn't really rate it. I think that that's just like a silly... I disagree. Being like happy? Yeah. I think that's extremely silly.

Starting point is 01:35:51 Why? Because it's like the thing that I prior to us is like being driven, having like a purpose, being ambitious. It's like, you know, not a lot of the things that I do on a day-to-day basis are like the most enjoyable, like, you know, doing work is an enjoyable lot of the times. But it's just something that, like, needs to be done. Like going to the gym, it's not like an enjoyable thing for me, but I do it anyway. So I have like no regard for like my happiness. Like that seems like a very, like, immature idea.

Starting point is 01:36:26 Why is that immature? Sure. To prioritize, like, being happy. I'm not saying that you can, that you need to prioritize it to assess it, but you can still assess it without it necessarily being a priority. But it's just like happiness as an idea. Like men are, like, supposed to be, like, happy. I don't really think. Why are men not supposed to be happy?

Starting point is 01:36:42 Because life is hard and... Can't you enjoy difficult things? Not if you want to succeed to the highest level that you possibly could. Does a man need to succeed to the highest level that he can? No, they don't need to do anything, but I certainly want to. but if you want to so you know where your happiness lies if you were to assess it what would you rate it out of 10 i think that it's a totally fine thing to measure people sure you can go the philosophical route of like why even you know are we discussing happiness what is happiness

Starting point is 01:37:10 but you could chalk it up to joy you could talk it up to enjoyment of life um you know where would you say you are on a scale of one to 10 i would say that um it was pretty low i mean i don't i don't sleep i don't really do i haven't uh like done it anything outside of content for like months now. I don't even have time to go to the gym. So I would say that, you know, like my overall well-being would certainly have taken a hit from like the content that I'm doing. But it's worth it. It's just like how how it has to be, you know. And so that reminds me, I know I'm not going to compare you and Elon Musk, but it reminds me of Elon when he says I'm so mission-oriented that, you know, are am I happy? Not necessarily.

Starting point is 01:37:56 but I don't devote my life to, you know, happiness is not a priority of mine. Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And I'd say that's like a very like, neurodivergent mentality to have. And that's why I think that like a lot of, you know, successful people often, you know, are on the spectrum for autism and stuff like that

Starting point is 01:38:16 is because they're capable of all of this. Like if I were to, you know, go and do something that made me happy, like go play video games or, you know, just go do do, like jester activities go like bowling or something like that um or go hang out with girls go to bars whatever the case may be i would not be positioning of myself in the most optimal way possible so that would and having that in the back of my head that when i'm doing like things like that i could better be using my time and and prioritizing myself much better i would not be able to enjoy anything i sort of

Starting point is 01:38:52 disagree. I think if, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, if you're an influencer, I think being able to convey happiness, joy, like viewers like to have positive influences. They like to watch content and feel good about it, or at least feel something. And if you, if you can bring some sort of clear joy or happiness to your content, I do think that that could actually serve you, you know, business-wise, like Togi, you know, all of the largest influencers like David Dobrick, you know, Mr. Beast. They all, built their success off of kind of some sort of at least positive spin, like a happy thing instead There's an emotion to it.

Starting point is 01:39:30 There is an emotion to it. And don't you think that like that would come through in content if we're just talking entrepreneurally? I think Mr. Beast is a textbook sociopath who as soon as the cameras turn off from what I've heard is just like a robot that has no. I would disagree. Yeah, we've spent a lot of time with him. No cameras, no nothing.

Starting point is 01:39:50 He loves what he does. Yeah, he'll crack jokes. He'll be like... He is funny. Yeah. And you could argue, oh, well, that's because he's around other influencers. He knows that they'll speak about him. No, we were playing, like, soccer with him after filming with him.

Starting point is 01:40:03 And just... And he was playing till, like, midnight and then went down and we were, like, reviewing Instagram reels. And, like, he's... We went to go film with him. And then afterwards, he's like, hey, we're going to all go play soccer at, you know, in the backyard of this house that he has, and it's got this big lot. And he has these soccer goals set up.

Starting point is 01:40:22 up and he invites all of his friends over and he's got a little shed with a bunch of cleats and he lets us wear his cleats and borrow some of his clothes he was about having fun and just being positive yeah there's a lot of stuff he's he's done for us that a hundred percent he didn't even need to do like i would have been happy just getting an hour with him for a podcast well the thing that'll say is i've talked about like i and identified a lot of like sociopathic behavior from influencers over the past year and i've never been wrong so But you haven't met Mr. Beast. Yeah, and I haven't met a lot of these people that I've analyzed.

Starting point is 01:40:57 And how would you say you haven't been wrong if you haven't met them? Well, I'm just, I'm saying, you know, right now, you know, I'm not 100% sure that I'm correct about Mr. Beast, but I'm saying that I've never been wrong before. And as I, you know, see more and learn more and, you know, potentially get into the same spaces, I think I'll know for sure. But I really wouldn't be surprised if I were correct on that. Mr. Beast. But regardless, it doesn't really matter because I actually do enjoy making the content. It's just all the back end stuff that's extremely draining. You know, it's not the content itself. I like being on a live stream and I typically do enjoy it. But it's just like, you know, dealing with all the back end stuff is a nightmare, as you guys probably know.

Starting point is 01:41:47 When's the last time you were sad? Last time I was sad Probably last year when I got expelled from school And like, you know, my parents were like Had wanted nothing to do with me Was kind of a rough one I didn't really know what direction my life was going to take Why did you get expelled?

Starting point is 01:42:07 How do they catch you? Someone sent in an anonymous tip Into my university And they came I got back to my room And there was just Everywhere where, you know, there was like the campus police

Starting point is 01:42:22 and I got booted out. Why were you even in college in the first place? That seems kind of antithetical to you. It seems like less of a disagreeable person decision to go to college. Because it's just something people do, and I didn't have any direction in life at the time. You know, that's literally what college is

Starting point is 01:42:37 in the modern context. It's just like, okay, you graduate at high school, and now you have to go to college. It's not like a pursuit of higher intelligence or becoming a well-being. red person. Just not what it is. College as a whole, it's a complete joke these days. What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

Starting point is 01:42:58 Wouldn't. Wouldn't? I'd say I'm very, like, insecure person. You don't have anything you're insecure about? Not really. I know that might seem to come as a surprise, but just my thought process for everything is not the norm of my community, of looks max. I'm coming from a place of pure object. and I'm just trying to improve a metric I know is valuable.

Starting point is 01:43:26 But even if it's not physical insecurity, it could be a mental insecurity, emotional insecurity. I mean, potentially I wish I was more like socially adept, but that's like a very like small thing that doesn't really hold that much value in my life. Like I'm unable to really resonate with like a lot of people. Like, for example, like, you know, the hobbies and interests of, like, your everyday person, I just find to be so ridiculous, like, sports or, you know, like, watching movies. Like, I wish I could just, like, enjoy that kind of shit. But I don't know.

Starting point is 01:44:12 I've always hated, like, football so much. And that was, like, a big thing that kind of made it hard for me to, like, fit in with people. Like, everyone goes, you know, to a bar on Saturday to watch football. but I'm like I would literally rather do anything else you know I'm similar I could relate to that I don't get into sports unless I have money on the game yeah I know that's and then it's more about I want to win that bet than it is about the game there you go do you think a man should ever cry I think it happens I don't really necessarily think it's a bad thing I think people deal with immense loss a lot of the time and that's

Starting point is 01:44:46 just like a natural that makes you human it's almost worrying sometimes if like the loss you endure is great enough and you don't cry. That's probably like a worrying sign that you're like somewhat psychopathic or have like a, you know, a bit of trauma potentially. So it's a very normal thing as long as you don't make it like a residual cope for the rest of your life of like a relative dies. It's like that acute reaction seems very reasonable to me, but as long as it doesn't hold you back, you know. When's last time you cried? It's probably like, you know, around like a year ago.

Starting point is 01:45:26 How to do with the expulsion? Yeah, just like not really knowing, like, what to do with myself kind of thing. So if a viewer wants to know how to life max, what would you recommend? If a viewer wants to know how to life max, I would say that increasing your social skills by working in a restaurant for a lot of the young guys is one of the things that benefited me the most, learning how to deal with figures of authority, whether that be your boss,

Starting point is 01:45:56 learning how to deal with your peers, who are your coworkers, is an experience that you're going to learn in an early age, and simply being able to converse with, you know, a different clientele, whether you're a hostess, whether you're a server, all these different jobs really helped me increase my social skills quite a bit because I had to learn

Starting point is 01:46:16 like body language when people actually didn't want to talk to me or you know picking up on cues like hey like let's make some small talk which is something I was horrible at up until like pretty much like earlier this year was when I kind of got my head on with that

Starting point is 01:46:32 kind of stuff so working in a restaurant I would say shape to me and made me the person I am I would argue sales just learning door to door sales dealing with rejection yeah that's also that's a similar concept It is. That's probably even better, right? But I don't think many people are going to be able to jump straight into door-to-door sales. And you also lose like the dealing with figures of authority, like dealing with a boss and like that kind of thing. And also just like being around people your age or your coworkers is another good thing. Like it's a social thing. I really like working in a restaurant for young guys. So in terms of your business, are you comfortable saying how much money you're making?

Starting point is 01:47:14 Um, okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG private wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG private. I mean, I'll just say what I make on streaming, because I've said this before, like, probably, like, between, like, $80,000 to $100,000 a month. Is that just from ad revenue while you're streaming, or is that also from brand deals and sponsorships? No, that's from, like, donations, like, and, um, what we call KCIP. So it's basically, it would be like the Twitch equivalent of ad revenue, but they just pay the creators.

Starting point is 01:48:14 What do your expenses look like? I reinvest all the money I have into just like technology. I don't pay any rent. I don't have a car payment. So basically my expenses would just be like food and anything that's content related. Like I'll usually have to pay for like security or different accommodations for doing higher all streams, things of that nature. Are you investing any of it? Not at the moment.

Starting point is 01:48:42 You know, I was just talking to my account. And we're just going to wait like another six months before the 401k investing starts. I just really have no take home at the end of the month. You're spending that much? Like, yeah, but I didn't really start making money until like this month. So like, well, probably not spending that much. Like there's like obviously take home. I would argue you don't really need a 401K.

Starting point is 01:49:10 Yeah. Just to lock the money up for that long might not be in your best interest. given that you have a short burst, probably have a lot of money coming in. It might be better just to open up a taxable account, do some in a 401k, but keep it mostly in a taxable index funds. Well, yeah, I mean... Diversified or maybe a Roth, as you're young. Yeah, yeah, I told him, I was just like, I don't even want to...

Starting point is 01:49:32 I didn't, like, commit to doing it in a single month. I said, I don't even want to have that conversation for six months as it stands. But, yeah, no, so just like basically been reinvesting everything. and I would say like another expense would be like I've recently just bought like a sprinter van for just like you know traveling and being able to have a computer set up on the go like and be able to stream so that was like another thing that I spent a lot of capital on. So, you know, I'm not too well-versed. I've been kind of just trying to incorporate and set up like, you know, all the different business entities like to, you know, protect my assets and and stuff like that has been a priority of mine.

Starting point is 01:50:15 I haven't really dove too deep into like, you know, the whole Roth set up and all that. Just trying to get everything like legal and, you know, start dealing with taxes because it's the first year I'm going to have to pay taxes, you know. Yeah, that'll turn you real quick when you start to see how much they take in taxes. Maybe not this year because you're spending so much money. Yeah. I bet your taxable is going to be pretty little.

Starting point is 01:50:38 But next year, if you do well, man, that every quarter, you start making those estimated payments, you see how much money's going away, and it just gets you going. It just pisses you off. I'd say, and it just evaporates. It's a cortisol spike. That's what ages me so fast,

Starting point is 01:50:57 is you write these quarterly checks to the IRS, and you say, where does the money go? And then I start thinking all the things I could have done with that, and it's gone. I don't really think I'm going to owe more than five figures of taxes this year. I'm not going to even break six figures.

Starting point is 01:51:11 Okay, well, count your, blessings and the next year you're going to start to get that cortisol spike we're going to start to see wrinkles forming all around here from the stress of paying taxes yeah no i'm i'm definitely going to take a big hit but there's a lot of right-offs this year for sure this is a looks maxing tier list all right you put acutane as an s absolutely yeah one of the best i took acutane um let's do i'm actually going to put that beach here i think that confidence in charisma uh largely is going to be like genetic. It's not really something like that you could just do. You just either are or aren't. So you can't improve charisma?

Starting point is 01:51:52 No, you can improve charisma, but it's largely going to be, you know, you're there charismatic or you're not. And the improvements that you can make are going to be very marginal. I did bones smashing as B tier. Color theory with clothing. Give that like a C. Decreasing body fat. It's going to be an S-tier thing. eye contact, certainly going to be context-oriented, but it's definitely going to be an important one for, like, more business setting stuff, but eyebrow grooming. Like, these are all good.

Starting point is 01:52:27 Like, don't get me wrong, it's just like... Comparatively. Yeah. Hairstyle. Yeah. Hair transplant. Hair is life. And if you have no hair, you have no life.

Starting point is 01:52:39 Makeups certainly an A-tier looks max. That's crazy. You put makeup so high. Wow. Mewing. Let's give that like a C tier. Once again, comparatively. Extremely necessary during development.

Starting point is 01:52:51 You know, micronutrient sufficiency. C. Outside of puberty, not that important, especially acute deficiency. It's not going to matter that much. Money. It's certainly going to be an eight-year's thing. Peptides are going to be,

Starting point is 01:53:08 I'm going to put them B-tier. It's really just like reddish-rutide and melanotan. All the rest are great. rhinoplasty's S tier shoulder pads I like C tier they're not that good sleep quality

Starting point is 01:53:20 okay uh that's gonna be an A tier as well teeth whitener give that a C the gym give them a so I'd say that's

Starting point is 01:53:30 that's my looks max tier list clavicular thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour it was really interesting uh I feel like I learned a lot

Starting point is 01:53:38 I will not be going home and bone smashing for the record I might Graham might. He definitely needs a little bit more zygomatic growth. So, but anyways, thank you so much for doing it on the podcast. And happy birthday, by the way. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. I appreciate you doing on your birthday of all days. And the grind never stops. It doesn't. Thank you guys so much for watching. Until next time. See you. Before you knew what a stock was, you traded snacks, cards, turns.

Starting point is 01:54:15 You knew what something was worth because you felt it. That instinct to trade didn't disappear. It just grew up. TD Easy Trade taps into that instinct so you can build something real for the future with no minimums, no monthly fees and 100 free trades. You already got this because you are made to trade and TD Easy Trade is made to help. Download it now.

The Iced Coffee Hour - “I Regret Nothing!” Clavicular Exposes The Dark World Of Looksmaxxing, Attraction & Extreme Surgery

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.