The Iced Coffee Hour - Justin Waller: The Ultimate Guide to Being High-Value, Rich, and Successful

Episode Date: June 16, 2024

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My name is Justin Waller. Platform. I do not any longer have a YouTube. I own a real estate portfolio with over 400 doors. I work very hard to give the best advice I can possibly give to young men and young women. What happened to the YouTube channel? I'm going to choose to take the high ground, if you will. I cannot stand alpha male.

You can't get women, bro. You have to be on your mission. It's not because I'm a superhero. It's because I worked hard every day to focus. on becoming the absolute best man I could be. And you know what's funny about that? When is the last time that you cried? I'm in eighth grade.

Get off the school bus and I see the family dog dead. And then I look through the trees and I see that our house had burned out. I didn't cry. I don't know. I will cry. Justin, thank you so much for coming back in the Ernest Coffee Hour. Clearly I'm glad to be here. Nine months ago, you gave some really good dating advice.

I think it was Jack. You asked what? you go and say to a girl when you see her out on the street or you see her at her bar what do you say how do you approach her what's the line and you gave a really good line and i was scrolling youtube shorts and i came across this video i said you know what that's it's really familiar got seven and a half million views he took what you said word for word and tried it down on the street yeah how to go i want to show you this video i want to get your reaction to it what he did right what he did wrong if there's anything he can improve it's really interesting seven and a half million views

I could not get away from girl talk. Let's do it. This is it. All right. Saw you and I just thought you were really pretty. Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, I couldn't help to notice that you were absolutely beautiful. Thank you very much. That made my day.

Wait, hold on, real quick. It would have really bothered me and I would have felt like a coward if I didn't approach you. Oh, okay. Hi, my name's Kevin. I'm Brooke. Nice to meet you. Can I get your number? Sure.

Okay. Where are you from, Brooke? I'm from Connecticut. Connecticut. Yeah. I'm from Connecticut. Oh, cool. Where about?

Nagatogahah. I'm from Cheshur. Oh my God You gave me a Connecticut She looks happy to do it I'll take it I guess I thought the worst thing Yeah that's that's crazy

When did you move down here? I just moved in like a couple weeks ago Oh you got the 203 too? Yeah Okay nice awesome All right well I'll text you Nice to meet you

Secured And then he linked back to this video Where you said this And he follows it word for word It would have really bothered me If I didn't come over here and talk to you It's vulnerability Is it? Is that what it's

I think it is It's putting walls down I can't believe I want to talk about girls I'm like super trying to get away from but but you have me here yeah man it's so it's honesty I mean you're walking up to someone and you're telling them your actual intentions

you could do the same thing in networking hey you know I came to this event because I really look whatever that may be right and just tell them the truth I think it goes across way better and when you're dealing with women particularly when they're used to men coming up up to them, especially if they're going to get approached on the street. The guy is generally taking some information that he learned from a pickup artist on YouTube

and going up to that girl and saying it to her. And I think that she feels a disingenuous, you know, energy in the interaction. So why not just tell her exactly what you think? I thought you were beautiful. I'd have been upset with myself if I didn't come speak. I'm not a PUA coach. And I also don't claim to have game. One of the most viral videos I ever did.

was a video where I was doing an AMA. And I ended up getting very upset with the young men that were asking me questions on the channel because the first 15 questions were about girls. And I won this large rant about how none of you were in shape, none of you have your money, right? None of you were doing the things. Because I genuinely believe that game really goes out the window

when you work on yourself as a person because it makes people want to be with you. I think becoming the man that women want is substantially more powerful than telling them some slick line. Because even if you do tell them a line and it works, let's say you nag them or you make them believe that you're somebody you're not, it's all hot air anyway. And she's going to find out.

So even if you sleep with her, she's not going to stay with you because she's going to find out who you are. So working on who you are, in my opinion, in my experience, is the most important thing you could possibly do. you could take two men, same girl, let's say the men are exact clone of one another. Like they're the same person, but one man had developed himself over here and the other one did not. He didn't work on, you know, his fitness and getting his career together and his style and becoming who he wanted to be. Both of those guys could say the same thing to the same woman on the same day and would get two different responses. And that's why I actually don't believe in pick up at all.

I believe on developing yourself and the better you develop yourself, the more that you're going to attract women or have the opportunity, like in this case in that video, just to tell the truth. I think you're beautiful. What's wrong with that? A lot of these guys, they talk about game and things like that. I think that you naturally become charming when you're successful.

Is that game? Maybe. Maybe you're just really confident in who you became. Yeah, here's what I think. You said that he's vulnerable. And I agree with you. He is to a certain degree. But what I saw even more than that was his confidence.

He walks up. He's not shaking in his speech. He seems very secure in himself. You know he's confident? Yeah. Because he knows he's not trying to trick or he's just telling him the truth. What's wrong with that? What's wrong we give somebody a compliment walking away?

Well, here's the thing. I think a lot of guys, if they see someone really pretty like that, can go up and be vulnerable and be like, excuse me, you're really beautiful. Can I get your number? Like something like that, that's vulnerable too. That's very truthful. But it's him walking up with confidence. And it's the tone of his voice that he feels very, you know, secure in himself.

And I think that's what made the difference. Well, but where does it come from? In my opinion, that comes from not going into the interaction with anything that you have to have from it. I can be very confident walking up to a beautiful woman saying, hey, I think you're beautiful, you look great today. And if it ends there, then you still get to walk away from that interaction with that woman, knowing that you gave somebody a compliment that will probably be with them at least all day. And if you go into it with the right expectations, then you can be substantially more confident about it. Now, for those who are unfamiliar with you, could you give the audience just a two-minute introduction,

who you are, what you do, or why people should listen to you? My name is Justin Waller. I have an online platform. I do not any longer have a YouTube. I work very hard to give the best advice I can possibly give to young men and young women. I own a real estate portfolio with over 400 doors, and I started a steel company at 24 years old, and we now hang steel all across the America, and the Caribbean. So airplane hangers, Costco's, rooms to go, Amazon buildings, you name it, if it's steel, we'll do it.

That's who I am. What happened to the YouTube channel? There was a vice article that came out that said, because I was promoting the real world, which is the world's best online school that they got in touch with YouTube and got me taken down. They called me the heir apparent to Andrew. So it was gone.

I woke up one morning. It was completely gone. I'd never had a stripe. I'd never had a warning. Nothing. We're working hard to get it back. I'm not going to talk poorly about YouTube. I think that likely YouTube did

what they thought was best in the situation based off the information that they had. I'm doing my best to get in touch with them on some higher levels to state the case that there was nothing going on on my channel that wasn't clean. And that's absolutely true. I've never had a strike. So I'm not going to sit here and talk poorly about YouTube. However, I think that if I get an opportunity to have them actually review my videos and the reason they took me down, then I might have a

good shot of getting it back. So I'm going to choose to take the high ground. Sounds good. Yeah. I respect that. But advice on the other hand, they, you'll talk negatively about because they went to YouTube, right, to try to undermine you, to try to convince them of something to get your channel taken down. I'm trying to understand what exactly caused the channel to be taken down. Sure. Actually, I won't go after Vice. I think that Vice is getting whatever they have coming to them in regards to how they choose to do their media. I recently did an interview with Vice and, you know, it's an art of war, man. You know, keep your enemies close. I don't hate vice. But also it was a great opportunity to show Vice. Hey,

This is who I actually am. I got to meet a real producer, create a real relationship with a producer. He wanted to talk to me about the things that he spoke to me about. And I took the high ground there as well. Sometimes in life and business and war and all these different things, you have to choose when you're going to strike. And I don't think right now is the intelligent time to do so.

If I can build rapport with somebody advice or somebody at YouTube and get the channel back, what's the greater good for me? What's the best outcome for me in the end? Is it talking trash about somebody? on the internet. That's why I don't talk trash about people on podcast. For what? For what? I'm not insecure about who I am, so I don't need to talk poorly about you. In regards to the vice, yeah, they did it and they were proud to do it, but they don't know me. And if they did,

I'm almost certain, just like anybody that doesn't like me on the internet or any comment I ever see, that they either wouldn't say it to my face or if they had an opportunity to meet me in real life, they would like me. You two thought about not bringing me on this podcast. And here we are a second time. So all I need is an opportunity for you to get to know who I am. That's it. And I think there's probably a pretty important lesson for any young man, especially a red-blooded, aggressive man like me. I feel the anger. But objectively, you sit back and you say, okay, but what actually makes sense? I'm not big on, you know, talking about stoicism, but you could argue that having stoicism in some of these moments are going to benefit you in the long run far more

than anything else. Because if you're truly mad, acting in that moment is probably not the best retaliation anyway. Plotting, making a plan and executing that plan over time, that's what's dangerous. And so I think that a dangerous person would actually not be emotional, even if they're angry, and then really calculate what they wanted to do about it, and then strike in that way. Not that I will, vice. So you seem to have this overwhelming sense of security, and who you are and confidence. And even as you sit here, I mean, your back is about as erect

as I imagine the back can be. I think you don't use the word erect. Okay, your back is about as straight as I imagine a back can be, right? You're towering over us. You've got the power hand stance. Ah, I'm curious, this confidence, where does it come from?

Did you always have it, or did you have to prove it to yourself over time? I think you build it. You build it. So as you build yourself up in life, you start to believe that you can do bigger and bigger things. Maybe when you first start out, you're skinny or you're overweight, and then you get in

shape, and then you think, you know what, maybe I can get that girl. Maybe I can get that job. And then maybe you start a business and you go from zero to a million in revenue. Maybe I can go to 10 million. Maybe I can be ultra net worth one day. So generally, I think you earn confidence. You earn confidence through trusting yourself and going through certain things. And then, then new consciousness becomes available to you and new belief in yourself becomes available to you. So it's like unlocking it in a video game. Everybody starts off as a character and you have a choice to make. Either you're going to go the route of building that character up over time and growing that confidence in the background along with all the other attributes that any, let's say, superhero would have.

And then you start to become confident in the levels in the game that you can go. And for me, there was a lot of things I didn't know about the world when I started out. where I'm from. I didn't even have exposure to some of the things that I'm shooting for now, but I built my body first, and then I built my career, and then I started to build my network, and now I truly believe there's not much that I can't do if I want to achieve. And that's not arrogance. It's just I believe I can do it. So what do you say to someone who has no confidence right now? How do they start building that up, and how long is that going to take? But before we go into that, one of my favorite things about running this podcast is getting to talk with so many different experts of so many different walks of life.

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have to earn your confidence you know are you confident in real estate ground fairly but i doubt myself sometimes how much you spend on that fish tank too much Ah, I'm telling Dave. When I meet Dave, I'm going to tell him. You're confident you could buy that fish tank. You were confident that you could create a YouTube channel. You were confident that you could grow who Graham Steffin is because of the work that you put in. How many hours do you have to study to do those amazing YouTube videos you do?

They're good. I would say I wasn't confident in the beginning, though. In the beginning, it was very self-conscious. When I started posting videos, I was like, I didn't tell a soul. Nobody. No one. I told no one about that. channel, not even my closest friends, families, girlfriend at the time, had no idea until I got like

15 videos under my belt and I was like, all right, I could tell a few close people about these videos and then we'll see what happens. So, yeah. Two things. You had to do a massive amount of studying to be able to put yourself in a position to make the videos one. Then you had to take massive action of actually shooting those videos and producing them in a way that you could be proud enough that you could take those to friends and family. you did the work to grow the confidence.

And now you're Graham Steffen. I mean, it's really simply that. I wouldn't be able to buy as many properties as I buy with the speed and the confidence that I'm able to. If I had not studied cap rate, net operating income, debt service, the cycle, due diligence, how to find it, I wouldn't be able to do it, especially not with any speed. I'd second guess, second guess, second guess, second guess.

and then the deal that I have that's off market would hit the market because I wouldn't pull the trigger I wouldn't put the $20,000 down earnest money. But you earn that confidence because it goes from most fears in the dark. You ever watch a scary movie? And you know how it's dark

and the scariest part is far before they actually show the bad guy or the scary thing. Many times in life, you don't take action because you didn't do the work to be confident enough in yourself to know they're not.

your actions will actually pay off or not hurt you. I always say that if you have something on your to do list or you have a goal that you had set out to achieve and for whatever reason, you're not taking action on it, go in the bathroom, look yourself in the eyes in the mirror and ask yourself what you're afraid of. What's going to come back is something that you don't know. You're uncertain about something, just like a scary movie. That's what's stopping you from taking action. So if you can go and get the competencies like you did, shine a light on it, and understand how to navigate through it, then all of a sudden your confidence goes up. But really, you just know what you need to do and you understand what needs to be done to hit that goal. And then magically you take action.

I think a lot of life is like that, a lot of it. Did you also study to learn how to do the videos in a good way? A lot of trial and error. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you knew what you were looking for. And then you saw it and you're like, you know what? I can tell my friends and family about this. Same thing. If I put a deal on your desk tomorrow, let's say it was like a 12 cab. Owner finance, I owe 5%, 100 doors.

You'd buy it, yeah? Would you be so confident that you would come to an investor if you didn't have the initial down payment that you'd be like, hey, listen, this is a good deal. Would you take their money? I mean, no, yeah. You would. You would take it because you know. And it took you all those years to get yourself in a position where you can understand that.

I can tell you, if we went outside in the hallway and I told those two camera guys that came with me, hey, I have 100 doors, 12 cap, here's the price, here's the debt service. I owe both those boys would look at me like I had, like they had seen a ghost and they're like, no, no, no, thank you. Until you tell them it's office space. And they're like, oh, definitely not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the point is, is that I could also walk in that hallway and say,

hey, guys, would you be interested in owning 100 doors that will change your life forever? They would both say yes. Most of all entrepreneurs you meet, they're like, man, I want to get into real estate one day. They don't because they don't understand it. And if they didn't understand it and they knew exactly what they were doing, then they would follow through on some of those things, but they don't. And so is it this confidence that you get born with? I would argue no.

I would argue that you build your confidence over time by earning it. And that that work that you do makes you believe in yourself in a completely different way. And it comes off to the world as confidence. But really, it's a lifetime of work that puts you in a position to feel secure with yourself in a way that will allow you to move forward and do the things that you set out to do. That's it. But in order to do the things that you set out to do, that requires a certain level of motivation. and my concern with producing podcasts like this, I'm always nervous that the viewers are just going to watch this

as some form of like mental masturbation. And they think that they're putting in the work by listening to a podcast like this. And the same way that people, when they go to therapy, they think that when they're being, or when they're being therapists, that they're like actually doing the work, when a bulk of the work,

the bulk of the work should be done outside of therapy. It shouldn't be done by watching podcasts like this. It should be done in other areas. What would you say to people like that, that binge these podcasts, that think that they're doing the right thing, how do you motivate them to actually go and do it? Because you can't just tell yourself to be motivated.

It doesn't work like that. No, you can't. I would tell them to watch the ratio of hours watched versus action taken. Even if you change the gradient of what you're doing. For example, if I were to watch a bunch of podcasts on real, let's go back to real estate, on how to do net operating income, debt service, cap rate, all these different things.

Instead of watching another video, and I actually used to do this, I would drive through an apartment building that was for sale, that I knew was for sale or a loop net, something that was going on there. I drive it like I was doing due diligence on it. Now I'm putting action in mass against what I've learned. I would go, I tell you, there's actually an apartment building that was next to my first due place. that I ever bought and it came up for sale and to this day I wish I'd have bought it. It was two million

dollars. It was like 80 units. It's in Louisiana. I remember going at night and with my flashlight and checking to see how many of the water meters were on. I remember driving it during the day on Tuesday and being like how many cars are here. I wonder if there were. I was acting like I was going to buy it. You know? And so for me that was a different experience where I could go physically pretend that I was going to buy the place, even though I didn't have the money at the time it was many years ago. I believe that making sure you pay attention to

how much you're taking in versus the amount of action you take is going to be a very important part of making sure you're not mentally masturbating. And then what about the motivation aspect of things? How do you become motivated? For me, I always had this vision of the man I'm going to become. And to this day, that's what I use.

because like anything, you accomplish something and you're happy about it for about five minutes. And so what I always tell people is that you need to create a larger consciousness. You need to go out into the world and find things that are either bigger than or were previously not in your realm of thought or possibility and be around them because it will inspire you to reach for bigger and bigger things. Like I never thought that I would own a year. yacht, let's say, or possibly by a plane. But the more I'm around people that own them, the more I see that that is a definite possibility for me in the future if I so decide. I mean, I could

do either now. I don't think it makes sense. But my being around those individuals, my seeing where their goals are and getting in rooms with people that have these things and meeting them and seeing that they're human and finding out what they do and understanding all these things about them, it humanizes big goals. And so one thing I would tell those people that are watching podcasts all the time is go get around these people. It's not hard in 2024 to get to an event or to meet, let's say, an influencer or somebody that you look up to that has some things that you want and you're not motivated to do them

yourself, but get close enough to them to realize that it's very real and it's very possible for you. and so that is to this day personally I focus on the man that I want to become and I have a relationship with that vision and I can see it. A lot of people do vision boards I actually just think about it in my head where do I want to be what I want my life to look like

what I want my character to be you know what what do I care about how do people know me you know what am I respected for in business and in life and when I think about those things they're very motivating to me because I'm becoming the character in my own show. That's interesting.

It actually sounds very similar to what Dave Ramsey was saying, of all people. He was saying... Yeah, me and Dave Ramsey, same sentence. It's kind of odd, isn't it? He was saying that if you plant corn, and you know that if you plant corn

and everything's going fine, you're going to actually grow corn. Corn will grow. They'll get a yield. In the same way that you say, like, it doesn't seem possible until you get into the rooms of people that are doing it.

It's true. So it's like faith that if you put in the work, you will get the yield is what will actually make you motivated to work. I think it was either Dave Ramsey or Grant Cardone said that once you make six figures, it's like you blow up a balloon, and even if you deflate it, it's still easier to inflate back up because it's got that elasticity to it.

So it's a little saggier than it was before because you've expanded to that income level. When you go to like 500 grand a year, you expand it even further. And it's easier to get back to that. So in a way, it's like when you hit these milestones, it becomes easier to achieve, just because you're expanding once possible. All of life is mindset. Am I letting?

I met Ed and he's a great guy. He has a book. I think it's one more rep or something like that. I've read it. He talks about temperature. Temperature in a room. So he talks about how people have a baseline temperature. Like their whole being,

as let's say a temperature is using an example. He says, but if you walk in a room or you get around other people where their temperatures are higher, your temperature will naturally rise. And that goes back to you're the culmination of your five people, all these different things. And that's why I do always say is that

if you don't have those people around you, which is a problem that I hear a lot when I get messages on Instagram, well, there's nobody around me, all my friends are bad, blah, blah, blah. Well, then maybe it is good to spend a lot of time watching some podcasts or reading books and spending time with authors

and people you looked up to. That's what I did. I didn't feel like I had anybody around me when I was in South Louisiana that made me want to dream bigger or that would want to even talk about dreaming bigger. And so I had to go out and find that and then start to develop these things with a relationship with people I didn't know,

but the relationship was still real to me because I was trying to aspire to be like them. And so as I built those things up and I started to have success in certain areas, then I started putting myself in places where people were physically there. And I think once you have a relationship with other people, that have done what you want to do, especially if you can be in touch with them.

And I'm not talking about influencers. I'm talking about people in the metal building world, let's say, when I was coming up. Or if you go to a local real estate meet up and you meet a guy that has 60 doors and you have zero, and you have his cell phone number, it gives you this different type of confidence. It's almost like an insurance. And then you meet him and he becomes human to you and this goal of getting 60 doors, this big monster thing that you think will be life-changing and you might not even be able to achieve. if you know somebody that literally you can tell is a normal person that achieved a goal that you

want to achieve, and now you even have a relationship with that individual, it changes your whole mindset about your ability to do it. And so the other part of watching videos is to go out into the world and see people that have done the things that you have done. You will quickly find that they can't fly. They're not, they don't have anything particularly that you don't have other than the fact that they did it. And if that can't motivate you to move forward, then maybe that's not what you actually want in your life. But before we get into that, when I first moved to Vegas a few years ago, it was my first time living anywhere, aside from my hometown, which is in California. And I very quickly learned a very important life lesson, which is it's extremely difficult to find a new doctor, let alone finding a doctor that's accepting of new patients or your insurance.

That, of course, is where our sponsor, ZocDoc comes in. For those that aware, Zoc Doc is a free app and website where you could search and compare highly rated in-network doctors in your area and then book appointments with them online. All you have to do is download the app, type in the problem that you're experiencing, select the time and date that you need an appointment, and then click Find Care. Zoc Doc then gives you a long list of suitable doctors in your area as well as their availability. Plus, every doctor on Zocococ comes with real patient reviews, which makes them a reliable source when you're looking for the right fit. And once you've found the right doctor, all you got to do is pick a time and date that works for you, fill in your info and then you're good to go. It is really that easy.

Just go to Zocdoc.com slash iced and you can download the Zocdoc doc doc app for free. And then you can find and book a top rated doctor today. That is Z OCDOC.com slash iced. Zokdoch.com slash iced. Thank you so much Zock doc doc for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast. When do you think it's unhealthy? When do you think it goes too far with this whole entrepreneurial grind set thing? Like you start to hear stories about like 13 year olds going into monk mode and, you know, for going over.

Like when is the line crossed between like... That's a tricky one. You know, there was a video with a young man in it. I actually did a response video to this on my Instagram to this day. Young man comes on. He couldn't have been any older than 12, 13 years old. And he was talking about how I'm working on my business. You brokies are going to be washing my car when I'm living my dream life in Dubai, blah, blah, blah.

And when I first saw the video, it really upset me. And it still does, to be fair, because I think a child should be able to be able to be. to be a child. This said, when I was a little boy, I thought I wanted to be a ninja, or a professional athlete. So in all fairness, the experience that he's going to get from trying at least to own his own business is going to be far better than his belief that he's going to play in the NBA. Now, where I think he got it incredibly wrong and where the whole grind set thing, I think

gets way off is when you start looking at everyday people like they're not as good as you. That's not okay. And that's a message that I would never want to push to young men. I don't care how much money you make. You're not better than anybody. It's like you asked me a minute ago. Hey, when we get done, we're going to go eat, right? Are you okay going to a buffet? Yes. Yes, I am. I am. Because this suit and these watches, it doesn't make who you are. It doesn't. I'm sorry. It doesn't. You can be very, very rich and be either a nerd or a bad person. And I've met plenty of people that are rich that are both. And I think where the grind set and some of the influence has gone is in a way of loud feathers on a bird, like look at me, look at me, look at me. I'm okay with that as long as we don't forget that the people that don't choose that life are not bad people. And you are not better than them. I am not better than the guy that dropped me off in the Uber today. And I am not so foolish to believe that I am. And I think that's the message that is unhealthy

out there is where people that have influenced, people that have done quite well for themselves, somehow allow younger people to believe that that means you're better than somebody else. Well, newsflash, you're not. You know how I feel about the trades. You know how I feel about the cops and the garbage people and the teachers and all these other things that actually make society run. We can't, as people that do have eyeballs on us, allow for young people to think that we are better than them. Because it's not true. It's absolutely not true. Maybe their goals are different than yours. Do I believe by and largely that every man would like to make a lot of money, have his choice of women, have a fancy car, be able to do what he wants? Yes, I do. But as you both know, it's called the one.

percent for a reason. It is not an easy road to get there. We are not all dealt the same hand in life. And so some people are not going to make it. And if all of us were the 1%, what would society even look like? So I think it's an important thing to say. This is a question that we ask everybody. I can't remember if we asked you this the first time. If you're poor in America between the ages of 20 and 50, is it your fault? Today? Assuming your, you're, you're competitive. No disabilities, no kids, just like an internet connection. Yeah. I actually would break that up.

Okay. Because if you're 20 to 30 right now, I think that you're absolutely getting wrecked. The Fed is printing money faster than you can possibly earn it faster in wage growth for Dampshire. For wars that aren't for the actual country, people are just getting wrecked. Let's say Ukraine, for example. So I get so angry when I see a Ukraine flag on somebody's house. Not only you arrogant, you don't even realize that when we print money and send it over there for those boys to die, by the way, you yourself have less spending power because of what it does of a dollar. You know, and so you have young men and young women that are, even if they do go to college, they're going into a workplace where they can't even afford to buy a house.

You know, they can't really afford to raise a family. And so they're certainly not doing it. I mean, you see the numbers on that. Like the nuclear family is getting wrecked. And so if it's from 20 to 30, even 35, no, no, I don't. I think the middle class is absolutely getting wrecked. I think that the powers that be, they, the politicians that have stock in Lockheed Martin that would love to see us print a 60 more trillion dollars, a billion dollars in sent it to Ukraine.

They're getting rich. And so the whole middle class is getting wiped out. The American dream is getting wiped out. And I think that's why young men are not weak today. They're probably just angry. And they're being dealt to hand that is not in their favor to win. And so I don't, I, you know, everybody talks about young men are weak and all this other stuff. No, young men are getting wrecked.

And it's not even their fault. And young women. And so from 30, let's say from 35 or let's just go ahead and go to 40 to 50, I think that we had a substantially better shot by just one debt cycle to do better. And so like your older millennial has a shot, had a shot. So if they haven't done well, then, and they're not in a position after they had what, let's see if you start your average career, say you get out of college at 24, let's say you had, you know, two cycles to build yourself up. Now those people, I would say you don't need to be wealthy,

but you could have a substantial amount of equity on your house, a substantial position in a company or in a market if you had a business. business and you should be doing substantially better than somebody that is, let's say, 20 to 30. Yeah, but say the 20 to 30 crowd, they're getting screwed. What do they do with that? I mean, my line of thought is, hey, the situation is what it is. It's a lot better not to focus on the situation at hand and how bad it is, but instead focus on the opportunity. Like, I think there's so much opportunity right now if you're between the ages of 20 and 30. It just never existed before. Where do you find that opportunity to be?

I see social media. Like one of the best examples I've said this so many times is getting really good at short form content. And even you don't even have to make the content yourself, but to be able to do that for somebody else, I think there's so much opportunity in taking podcasts like this, clipping them up, making them really, really, really good. I mean, that's a service that people would gladly pay five, ten grand a month for.

Imagine scaling that up across five people. Thumbails, titles, I think all of these things with social media had never existed 10 years ago and they're abundant now. I agree, but also in a very saturated market and what is the actual GDP

of that? More consumption? The thing is, I think the bar is so low. I mean, in fairness, people don't try. They don't give it their all. They're half-assing it. They're distracted. I think if you really stay focused and you dedicate yourself,

I think it's possible. A winner's going to win in every environment. Right? Like, I don't care who the president is. I read something over today that said that more millionaires were made during the Great Depression than any other time in history. Winners win in any environment. So, of course, you could go clip up videos or of course you could become an influencer. But I believe that the number one thing that kids in high school want to be is a YouTuber or an influencer. But that's not... Yeah, but even going back to your example of the traits, a plumber 24-7 who picks up

their phone when you call it three o'clock in the morning. You know how hard that is? I'd have to call a plumber for a leak by the pool. And it was after 6 p.m. I called a few places and I finally found one dude who picked up his phone where after hours it went to a cell phone. I shouldn't have to call five companies to find one guy. And it didn't even say 24-7. It just, it was after 6 p.m. I just happened to call this guy. It kept ringing and then I knew it like, okay, it's going to a cell phone at this point. The guy picks up he's down the street. He's like, yeah, I'll be there.

And he was there, fixed it, amazing person. So the question is, though, is everybody made to be an entrepreneur? No. But it depends, I guess, on what you want. I believe 9% of the population is entrepreneurs. Actually, I spent like 8 hours with Alex Hermosia's office yesterday. And we were all talking about this. He said 9% of the population are entrepreneurs.

And then out of that 9% only 4% actually have employees. So if we're dealing with 4% of the population in regards to being an entrepreneur, what happens to the other 96? What happened to the guy that could get up, go to work for a company, make enough money that he could support a family, and that family would stay together? That's where I think we're really wrecking it.

But all in all, what about the other 96? like how do we make sure that the person that wants to get up and go to work and have a job and do a good job and show up and work for a company for a long time. Like that deserves at least a decent life, at least a family, at least an opportunity. Well, how do you think that plays into quiet quitting? Because you have a lot of people who do exactly that and say, you know what, I'm never appreciated for my work. So I'm going to do the bare minimum coast by leave it at that. Or there's thousands and thousands of people clipping content. and they're watching that shit all day.

So I think it comes down to the individual and whether they want to quit or not. And we are in this weird time in the world where you can actually be quite broke and live on Raymond Noodles, still have porn hub, still probably be able to get your hands on some drugs or whatever you want to do,

and you have Netflix. So if you were to compare that life to, let's say, a king, you know, a couple hundred years ago, you're not doing that bad. you know what I'm saying? In all fairness. Yeah, you got air conditioning. You got AC.

Automobile. Automobile. You can go to the buffet we're going to after this. 997, all you can eat sushi. I wish, man. $33. $33. Yeah, it used to be $29.

That's inflation. I bet it used to be seven, honestly, 10 years ago. I think when I first started going there, it was like 2499. Yeah. You have YouTube. You can literally learn how to do almost anything short of open heart surgery, you know. and so people are living a lot better than they've ever lived and what's being thrown in their face I think that people will be substantially happier if Instagram didn't exist.

Substantially happier. And I don't like it either. You know, like I understand that I'm competing against people with their flashy cars and their lifestyle and these things. And fair enough, you have to show a little bit. I'll never forget when I was a little boy,

I don't think I've ever told this story on a podcast. I remember being a little boy. I was at a baseball game. And there was this kid who was kind of pretty arrogant kid. And he was walking around. He was flexing his bicep to everybody. And I looked at him and I'm like, I knew my arm was bigger than his. And for whatever reason, probably because I was in the South and everybody was like,

be humble, be humble. You know, God says be humble. I didn't do it. And now today as an adult, because they made fun of me because I didn't do it. As an adult, I'm like, well, you should have probably flexed a little bit, you know, in all fairness, because you start to understand that, you know, I'm not saying we're monkeys or anything like that, but I am saying that we signal. And sometimes signaling is helpful, if not for anything else, but for people

to know that you've achieved the things that you say you've achieved. And we also live in a world where you can fake signal, which is very interesting as well. And so, I think that people, when they see these things, particularly the abundance of fake signaling, they feel like they failed in some way. And their expectation and their reality has a large gap in between it. I always say that my definition of happiness is the gap between your expectation and your reality. So when they go online, they're comparing themselves to all of these people, whether they did it for real or they didn't.

Most often I think that they didn't. or even the people on their Facebook, and they're gauging that success, because I don't completely believe success is monetary, certainly not the entire thing, and certainly not even most of it. They're gauging that against what they have. And I think that's where the unhappiness comes from.

Because even now in America, in these inflationary environments where it's hard to go buy bread, it's hard to do all these other things, I was just as happy eating rotissory chickens when I was building my company and having the instant two minute rice that you put in the microwave than I am today when I go eat luxurious buffet sushi with you guys for $34. I was just as happy because I was working on the man that I would become. I was excited to get out of bed in the morning because I was excited about what I might be able to become one day. And I think if a person can put the phone down and think about where they are and everything that they have and what the opportunity in their life could be if they could get excited about it and create that vision for the future, then they have hope. And if you have hope with a vision, I think that you can be happy on the way.

I was certainly happy on the way just as much as I am now. Because for me now, no matter what I do, it's never good enough because your confidence grows. and you're like, oh, I can do more, which means guess what? You're on the way. I always say that success is a two-way street. It's climbing the mountain, which is working on all the things to achieve the vision that you're looking for, that peak. But the dangerous thing about it is getting to the top without a vision or knowing

the next mountain to climb. And so for me, I'm never going to reach the top because I'm going to keep moving it. And what keeps me happy is the climb, regardless if I don't have a jet yet. regardless if I go to Andrew's house and he's got 87 supercars and I only have one. It's the climb and it's finding those things that are going to make you happy. There's a lot of things that I've been able to do. Private Jets is a great one. I've been on a bunch of private jets and I've paid for private jets most of those times.

I don't like it more than first class. I don't. It's to me it's not that much of a lot of, a difference. It seems like a huge difference to me. It's not. You can't walk on the plane? It's not. To me, it's not. I like airports. I love airports. There's no way. It's impossible. I really do like them. I like the frenzy. When I'm in an airport and I'm waiting on a flight, bro, I can work. I can work. In fact, a lot of my construction business was built at night when my employees left my office. I'd go sit at this little sports bar and I'd keep working because something,

about all the moving and chaos around me and people watching the game, it helped me focus. That's not normal. It might not be. It might not be, but in life, to me, you have to, you have done, the biggest key to success, in my opinion,

is understanding and then accepting who you are. You get Delta hand. Maybe I didn't have this hyper-focused hand, you know, around quiet situations, but I found out about myself that I really liked chaos. Here's the other thing. I love when people stop me in the airport. They're like, can I take a picture?

I would love to take a picture with you. It makes me happy. I can't stand when people are like, oh, yeah, you know, kind of gets old sometimes. Not for me. Not for me. You want me to be completely hat and hand on us with you? Makes me feel really cool. And I am very happy to do it.

Thank you for stopping me. I love you. I hug 99% of the people that stopped me for a photo. So I love airports. I love the frenzy. I love seeing the people. I love being in it. I like first class.

You know, I enjoy it. The seats are comfortable. You know, it's fun. I enjoy talking to the person next to me. So to me, there's this massive difference in cost. And to be quite honest, I think I might be bored on a plane by myself. It's just, you know, it's a preference. Sure.

It's a preference. It's just like I buy black Walmart t-shirts. Do it all the time. I like them. I could go to Versace and buy black t-shirts, but I like the ones from Walmart. So that's the ones I wear. And I think people get this mixed up.

I see people all the time wearing like Gucci and all kinds of things. And it doesn't fit them right or they kind of look ridiculous. And when I see that, I'm like, they're just wearing that so everybody else can see the logo. But they probably could have got an outfit similar to that. in shape and it would have fit them better. It would have looked better, but they wanted the logo more than they cared about the fit of the shirt. And for me, the things I want in my life

are the things that I actually want for me, not the things that I think other people will look up to me for. And I think that's very important. I really like my Lamborghini. I really do. I didn't think I would as much, but I found out that I do. And somebody told me the other day

that it's not a real Lamborghini unless the doors go up. And I thought to my... V-12. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought to myself, but I really like my car. I really like it. You know,

I have my F-150. It's a lariat. It's not a king ranch. It's not a raptor. But I really love that truck, man. You know? And I think going back to being confident in yourself and being secure in who you are,

those things don't make who you are. And we get that mixed up. And young men, particularly, I think get that really mixed up. because they see these things and they see some of the, you know, the boasting and the bragging and they attie their value as a person to either the amount of women they slept with or the amount of money or the foolish things that people buy. And I think that's the wrong way to look at it. And I know that maybe my persona on the internet is assumed to be something different.

But I can tell you if you were to ever to meet me in person, you find out quickly that it's not. tight pants or not. So I believe these things are really important to share, especially in times when people are hurting, because you never know when you're going to reach a place that you thought was going to be the most incredible thing ever, just to realize that it's not what you thought it was and that what's going to make you happy is going to be something else. It's like we're talking about, I know for a fact there's going to be a point in my life where I'm going to sell whatever house I'm in or just leave it there and I'm going to go RV for a couple years. I'm going to take my kids and we're going to go to Switzerland or Greenland or wherever I want to go that I think is going to be beautiful and we're going to RV for a couple years and we're going to eat off of paper plates and I'm going to teach them real estate math and I'm going to talk to them about how the world works and all these different things and it's going to be a substantially cheaper lifestyle than let's say I currently live today.

But I don't need the validation because I'm doing what I actually want to do. I'm doing what actually makes me happy. I'm secure in who I am and I could go live that life I wanted to. But I think oftentimes people don't even give themselves the permission to not show the world that they're doing better than somebody else. even if they would be happier doing the opposite thing. And so I think that it's important to say. So why do you think so many people are misguided then?

Like going after things that they think will make them happy, but they actually don't? How would you, so to speak, like wake them up out of that trance? Are there certain questions that you should be asking yourself to see how you respond to them and good and bad answers? Yeah, I think you have to find the balance for yourself because I'll also say as a counter argument to everything that I've said, is that we are still competing

on a very primal level, I believe, particularly men, are competing to show what they can offer is in the dating market. And so I do think that's real. There's a guy, I don't know his name is hard to pronounce. He's like, I'll teach you to be rich. And he talks about being very frugal

with the things that you don't care about. Ramit. Ramit, yes. and being extravagant about the things that you do. I agree with that on every level. It's just like the jet thing. If I want to get a jet, I can stretch and do that, but I'm not going to enjoy it.

Not in any massive way. Now that car, I really enjoy that car, and that car is not as expensive as a jet, but at the same time, it is a few house mortgages a month, you know, the note. and I really enjoy the car. So I think he's actually right in that regard. And so where I think that the young person that's trying to navigate how to make those decisions

has to really ask themselves. And I think they can only answer that question. What is lavish that I enjoy and what is lavish that I don't like at all? And I'm just doing it for other people. And I would advise them to put down the things that they're doing for other people. people and only they can answer that question. How would you answer that, Graham? It's easy for me to say clothing is something that I don't really, like lavish clothing

is something that I don't really care about. The clothes that I do have, I get for free. Almost everything. A lot of it's designer, but it's just given to me for free, but I prefer H-NM. So like really high-end clothing, that's something I probably don't get. Something lavish. Gosh. Watches probably.

That fish tank. The fish tank is something. It is. That fish tank is. That thing's dope. I guess I like things that are aesthetically pleasing or beautiful to look at. So for me it would be I love the aquarium, landscape, art, watches. Things that I look at is like a piece of art. Like if I could display watches on the wall and never wear them, I probably would. You should.

You should do that. Why would you not? Yeah, get bulletproof glass. I'm not going to and harness it. That's not that expensive. That would be actually awesome. And if you buy the right watches,

they hold value. I look at my watch. I have a watch collection. I look at it like gold. Well, obviously it is gold. Right. But Rolex is very famous

for holding its value. Which is another reason why Graham appreciates. Right. I don't think I would have as many as I do if it weren't for the fact. I thought of it. I thought of something.

Or what is it? Priority boarding on the airplane. Jack does not. Jack does not care. He just gets on the plane. I dislike priority. I like getting in last. Oh, for me,

going on, being one of the first people to board on an airplane is so important to me. Because I know I could put my bag up in this, there's space up there. I get to sit down

while everyone else is bustling in. I'm just in my space. I get extra 20, 30 minutes of work done. That's an extra $15. I'd gladly spend it. Jack, on the other hand, he's like, detest priority boarding.

I want to be the last person in the plane. I get so antsy. And if we're already in the plane for several hours. Like you notice I start taking off my shoes. I start like moving around. I start like rocking back and forth.

I'll get up and stand. Like I cannot sit. When they call our boarding, like we're boarding group three. I want to be the first one at boarding group three in. So I have a question for you guys. What do you spend money on that is ego driven that you know about and you do it anyway? There's got to be something.

Gosh, I don't think I have any. I bought. a Tesla, but I don't think that was ego-driven. No. Because I could have afforded one a few years back, but I waited and waited and waited and waited. Aside from that, I feel like an egoic boost whenever I'm like out to dinner with someone and I decide to pay. Like that makes me feel like pretty baller, you know?

Yeah, that's cool. Or like I'll tip a pretty substantial amount. Yeah, and that makes me feel pretty. Girls like that. The paying or the tipping part? The tipping part. I usually don't show. Just the tip.

Just the tip. Yeah. I usually, I don't show, I don't like, I don't like showing the amount that I'm tipping. I think that's kind of, like, and I don't look at how much other people are tipping. That's up to them. But I also, I don't, I don't want them to know them just like, you know, sliding the dial or whatever it is. Right. Yeah.

That makes sense. I can't think of it a single thing. Yeah. I don't think I have any purchases that are, that are eco-driven like that. I'm trying to think of what I would have. The aquarium for sure. It's not an ego thing. I'm kidding.

Gosh. You love aquariums. He's in a Facebook group. Yeah. What is. Graham like that. He's in a Facebook group. You don't think that like the 4GT?

No, uh-uh. No, because I never drive it. Yeah, he's got a 4GT. He's got a lot. We don't have to list them all off. The fact that I'd never drive it though, if it were an ego thing,

I'd be taking it out of the house. There's so many cars outside. I mean, I just have the Tesla. That's the only car that's out front. The garage is on the other hand. Yeah, but I never drive them. I know the truth. If it were an ego thing,

you would think that I'd be taking them everywhere. I'd be driving them all the time. I'd want to show them off. I don't drive them. They sit there. They're investments. What are you most proud of? Oh, man, probably the, probably the YouTube channel overall. I think all my work, my life for the last eight years has gone into that. Yeah. So do you think you have ego about it? Yeah, probably. Yeah. But that's not a purchase. That's like where I spend my time. Right. But I don't think that's like a purchase. Well, I think people do it all the time. And the word gets thrown around a lot like it's negative. I don't.

think that anybody that's successful has an ego to a certain degree. I do think that's healthy. Oh, you know what I think it could be if my investments perform well. If I buy a property and it makes just a little bit more, then I'm like, okay, that's great. Or a stock. I buy, you know, I buy something and it goes up in value. That for me is an ego thing because then it's like I was able to identify an opportunity and it did well and it played out as I thought. And I guess that's an ego thing. Do you keep that to yourself though? hopefully not probably not I sometimes do yeah yeah one of my favorite things I know that my ego is tied to this is like how I actually structure a real estate deal for example like if I get

owner finance I owe for five to seven years and I raise the money and I can pay them back you know and like own the part completely or just whatever that may be I get really fired up and excited and think I'm cool, you know, when I like structure it the right way. I really enjoy that. You know what? On that thought, negotiating and feeling I got a good deal. Puerto Rico, we were there doing a podcast and I found a necklace that I wanted to buy Macy and I tried negotiating. And I just, it would make me. That made me so uncomfortable. It would make me a good. He's in Puerto Rico. Like they don't have a whole lot of money. That's what they do.

But this she was a shrewd. She was a shrewd negotiator would not give me a dollar off. I thought about it. It's either I get the thing or I don't get the thing and I got the thing. And I put a premium on like, you know what, just for piece of, just let me pay a premium. But deep down I love the art of negotiating. Not to try to like rip somebody off, but like let's haggle. I like haggling a little bit.

Right. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun. Just a little bit. Just to feel like I get a little win. One last question while we're on this topic. Can you be successful in life if you have a negative mindset? I don't believe so.

Because even if your life was incredible, you wouldn't be able to see it. So your whole experience in life, even if you were dealt every possible, wonderful thing that could be there for you, you wouldn't enjoy it. because you would have a negative mindset on what you see. A lot of life is the lens that you see it through. Many people are in bad situations and they're happy because they have hope because they're looking through the right lens. Or gratitude. They're very grateful for the things that they have.

And so I don't think that there's any possibility, regardless of your situation, for you to be happy if you look at life through a negative lens. No. Although really quick, before we go into that, if you're a business owner, you know there's no better sound than here. hearing. And if you want to hear a bunch more, then it's time to get started with our sponsor,

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one of the audience's favorite topics as well as Graham's, Graham loves this. Justin is always iffy on this because he talks about this quite often, but it's dating. Okay. No, I get pulled into talking. talking about this. We do. This is our phone. Everybody wants to talk to me about it. I know, but you happen to be so good at talking about it. You have a gift. You have a gift, dude. I don't know why people want to talk to me about women so much. It doesn't have to be about women. It could just be about dating. About dating in general. All right. I'll talk about it on one condition that I publicly said, I didn't bring it up, not my idea, and would rather talk about interest rates. Proceed. Okay. All right. We'll talk about. entrepreneurship and finance later in the podcast.

Don't worry that's coming. We have a whole segment on that. On the topic of dating, we recently collaborated with Sadia Khan. Do you know who that is? Yeah, the really smart, pretty lady. Yes, very smart, very pretty lady. And we asked her about high value and low value people.

Now, this is kind of like a cliche, and a lot of people use you as like the poster boy of like a high value man, right? I was just talking to Rolo Tomasi about that. He's like, he called me and he's like, hey, I apologize. but I do use you all the time. I mean, you're like a six, four, lean two, I don't even know, 230.

Six-pack year-round. Yeah, six-pack year-round makes a whole lot of money. It's interesting because as I talk to girls my age about high-value, low-value, they all kind of recoil at those terms. Most people do. Most people do. I'll be the first to say, I cannot stand alpha male.

Yeah. If I ever say I'm an alpha male, please kick me in the nuts immediately. It won't be hard. My jeans are tight. You'll see where they are. Do it. I hate it. Anyway, proceed.

When do you bring up high and low value to women? I'm just curious. Are you on a date? You're like, hey, don't look at this bill, but, uh, no, no, I don't even think it was like we were talking about dating. I think it was, I'm trying to remember which. context it was. I'm not going to be able to remember exactly what it was from.

But we were talking about dating, I think, just in general. And then they brought up high value and low value. The girl did. Yes. They brought up like all these people. They talk about like high value, low value. And I said, yeah, I think that those terms are like a little bit disingenuous because by saying that someone's a high value person, it implies that someone can be a low value

person. I would also say that it implies that the, person that's making the decision on who they want to be with, it implies that you know what they value. There's many women that would look at a guy like me and say, I don't want him. I want the guy that I know is going to be home every day consistently. And maybe that has something to do with what they feel secure and what they don't. But just the implication is, yes, you are putting some people in a low value range and a high value range. But you're also implying that the person that is looking for either of these subsets of people,

you're saying that you know what they are going to value in the first place. So I think it's wrong in many ways, but anyway, proceed. But I, like, caught myself in a position because I do tend to play devil's advocate, usually, you know, to my chagrin. But I played devil's advocate to this lady. And I said, yeah, I agree. the terms in and of themselves are a little bit, for lack of a better word, toxic. However, I think that a small concentration of men get a wide majority of women, and the same thing goes vice versa.

I think the same thing gets... Well, I think you're wrong there. You're right in the first statement. There's a very small subset of men that get most of the women. That's a fact. Because hypergamy looks across and up. So that said, and this is where I think that some women find themselves very unhappy, let's say here's another thing I hate, the point scale, you know, the zero to 10, like she's a rating scale? He's a 10, yeah. It's horrible.

But these words and these phrases, they're used as a placeholder for people to understand the context of the situation. So the point I'm making is, is that a 10 out of 10 man will sleep with a 5 or a 6 out of 10 woman. He will sleep with her and that gives her the illusion

that she has a shot with that man, which is not true. He is just sleeping with her. For a woman, a woman is generally not going to sleep with a 5 out of 10 or a 7 out of 10 man. She's just not going to do it. So I do think it's different in that way.

Does that make sense to you? It does. Yeah. What do you think? are the disadvantages to being attractive? Well, everything that you just listed about me, most often my experience in my life is that people have to talk to me for a few minutes

before they like me because I look like an absolute arrogant asshole. Seriously, I look like the guy that was mean to them in high school. And so that's the whole fox and the rabbit thing. So there's that if you're a man. Disadvantages past that, I don't think there's many.

if you're a beautiful woman, you will quite often probably be called a slut or something of that nature when a woman has you in her presence and she's intimidated by you or threatened by your beauty. She might try to say that you're a slut or that you dress a certain way or you're probably, you know, or you wear too much makeup. I think that you'll get attacked sometimes for being too attractive or you'll get labeled a certain way. That might not be true. Is that just from other women? Or we're talking about from guys too? I think it's society. No, the guys, if a woman is very attractive,

let's say she's very well built. She's wearing tight-fitting clothes, but not very revealing, but well-formed fitting, where you can clearly see that she's put together quite well physically. I think that he'll be attracted to it. Whereas a woman might attack it.

And if a girl is really beautiful, I think that she has the disadvantage of people assuming that she's not intelligent, which isn't true. and it's just like if you see like a really buff guy there's going to be this thought that he's not intelligent until you get an opportunity to speak and then you might find out otherwise.

So I think there's stereotypes for all sorts of things. It's like saying that you think that people are lazy. Maybe they are, maybe they're not, who knows? But these things happen. You know, people make assumptions based off of certain things, but to be completely fair, a lot of times that's pattern recognition. You know, I mean, people do it about all kinds of things, genders, races, attractiveness scales,

whatever these things are, guys in tightly fitted suits are like, oh, he must be this or that, or he must think he's the shit, or whatever it may be. So I think those things are there, but I don't think it has to be a disadvantage in the end. I don't think there's many disadvantages to being attractive.

I think there's far more advantages to being attractive than not being attractive. I also think being attractive is so much more, than the physical looks that you were granted at birth. There's so much more to it than that. There's style. There's understanding how to dress. There's confidence.

There's hairstyles. There's not being overweight. There's being in shape. I think being in shape can give you three or four points by itself. So there's so many things that could make you substantially more attractive in the first place. But as far as a disadvantage, I think there's very few. And I think many of those disadvantages can be. gotten past if somebody just has an opportunity to get to know that person.

One thing that I've been finding really interesting lately is the importance of having women in your life that you're close to, whether that's like a sister or going up with female friends. For example, I didn't grow up with a sister. I grew up with an older brother. I didn't really have any female friends growing up. And I think that that kind of handicapped me because it made me think that women are some like foreign entity for the longest time. And so I didn't know how to talk to them.

So I'd either talk to them like very formally where like you know, you know, you're like buttoned up and like open up the car doors and like try not to crack any like stupid jokes or anything. I think that's so funny. You know like and dude, I'm telling you that was like the worst thing that I ever did. It did not work at all. Like because maybe I was too shy. Maybe I was like just way too serious. But that's just what I thought because that's like what Hollywood makes it out to be like how you're supposed to be to attract someone.

Formal with women like dude, dude, I don't even know how to explain it. It was just like weird. Like I was like way too professional. Professional. Like I was like trying to pitch him into a business or something like that. Like are you talking about girls we were actually attracted to or just like random girls? Girls that I was attracted to. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're very formal with them. Yeah. Like I don't even know how I'm called. Probably think interview. Formal. Like it's just weird. Yeah.

Like I was trying to sell them on me. I don't even know what it was. Right. But that was like a long time ago. And then after like some experience, I started realizing like, okay, yeah, they aren't as different as people make them out to be.

But they still are. psychologically different. We're talking about them like they're aliens. That was my existence for a super long time. To be fair, I think a lot of people think that way. Yeah, and I think that this is a really common problem for people that don't grow up with sisters. Like, I think that it's a really educational and enlightening thing as a young guy to see your sister just go at it with your mom. Okay. Like, like, like, not like that. How did we go to like, like, bickering? How did we go from like high value, low value to his pitch on why everybody? but it should have sisters.

I think that it's important. And I want to know, like, okay, you grow up as a young guy trying to learn how to date. People tell you so many different things. They tell you act apathetic. Like, that's a huge thing. You have to have no interest in the woman. That will make them attracted to you. Or-

I disagree, but continue. Yeah. Or you have to just treat them like a friend, but then you get friend zoned. Or you do this and then this happened. Or you do this and then this happens. Like, is there an actual? like substantiated guide or something that can be followed or is it truly you just have to go out there learn your strengths learn your weaknesses become the best man that you can possibly be and then

try and get rejected and try and get rejected and try and get rejected or even is that like dogma you know and people like they follow that blindly and then it leads them down the wrong path how do we always end up here okay it's a lot to unpack there so you said a few things you said apathetic like you don't care. Is that correct? Yeah, apathetic. And then what was the second one? Like treating them like a friend, like a normal person.

And then there's being an asshole, girls like assholes, right? And then there's personal development and becoming the best man you can be. The thing is that there's just so many options. And people say them in a dogmatic way that they will. There's about four there. Okay. So I think, I know that it should all start off. with the man that you become.

You need to do your best in every category. If you're super young and you haven't had an opportunity to develop all the way, then you can still do your best to put your best foot forward looks wise. Put your best foot forward, let's say you're in high school. Socially, you know, if you want to play, if you like sports or you want to be the captain of a team or you want to debate or whatever you, like, so there's still the social aspect of it. So you want to build yourself up as high as you can. and then when it comes to women,

I don't believe in playing games. So when they talk about being apathetic, what they're talking about is blowing the girl off. No, that's not the way to do it. The way to do it is to actually be so busy on your mission as a man that you have a hard time and she feels like you're making time for her when you make time, that you really actually are that guy

that is trying to achieve everything that you possibly can. You're not seeing a text from her and being like, oh, I'll answer that tomorrow. No, that's silly. You like the girl. Text her back. Hey, so glad you text me. I'm super busy walking into a meeting.

I can't wait to see you on our date tomorrow. It's honest. You're honestly that busy. You're honestly that much. Women want to be with men. that they feel like he's going somewhere. And so to be apathetic with her is really just like some kind of weird form

of manipulating her into thinking that you don't like her. So she'll come to you. You want her to come to you because of the type of man you become. And so actually be that guy that's so busy, that's working so hard. She will see that and she will respect it and respect equals love. And she will be understanding to,

it. And you can even go a step further and tell her how much you appreciate her being understanding of the mission and the journey that you're trying to accomplish and you appreciate it. And then when you do get in her presence, it is okay to be her best friend. It is okay to laugh and joke and then be a gentleman and open the door and then laugh and joke again. And then here's where guys, especially successful guys, get it wrong. Once you're in a relationship, she has to respect that you are going to have expectations, boundaries, and things that you expect of her. Some things you are going to have to tell her, hey, I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that from you. It doesn't mean you have to call her names.

It certainly doesn't mean you need to raise your voice. But you have standards. And you're going to stand by those standards. And just like your ambition, she's going to respect the fact. that you have standards, you hold her to those standards and that she's accountable to them. And that also means respect. And again, respect equals love. It's when a woman sees that you're all of these wonderful things, you're ambitious, you're her friend, you don't blow her off.

You're a very busy person trying to create a better life, which she will benefit from. And then that you have standards that you'll stand by and hold true to because you're confident in who you are, the missing you're on and to be quite honest you should be the leader i know that won't be popular but if you look over time generally men are the leaders of the relationship and women want a strong leader and if she can walk all over you she cannot respect you which means she cannot love you so it's not being asshole it's being firm even loving in the fact that hey i'm not going to put up with that it's not acceptable and you can be her best friend the person that even you text randomly,

hey, walking into this podcast, I love you, I can't wait to see you. All of that's okay. Inside the strength of, there's boundaries and guidelines and expectations. But she should always feel safe around you and safe inside that role that you're providing to her, which is a leader, which is ambitious,

which is funny, which loves the fuck out of her, and do anything for her. And if you can't allow her to know that she has all that support and all that safety from you, then how is she going to listen to you when you do have to put your foot down? So what does it look like?

It's all of those things. For most relationships to let the woman walk over you. Like what is that, like an example of that? It could be any list of things. What would you not want a woman to do? Let's say you had a girlfriend. What would you feel really uncomfortable with her doing? This will make me sound jealous.

But I would not like it if she was posting very revealing photos of herself online. Hey, I love you, but we need to talk. I notice that you're posting photos that are very revealing on the internet. And in my opinion, that looks like marketing to me. We're together. But all of these men are going to see these photos of you on the internet and probably DM you. I would really appreciate it if you would take them down. if you can't, then we may have to re-look at this situation between you and I.

That's just what I do to feel good about myself. To feel good about yourself. That is a standard. If I'm with a woman and I care about her, like truly, I'm in love with the girl, a girl that I think I could have children with, it is a definite standard that you're not marketing your body half naked on the internet. I'm not sorry about that. Does that mean that I'm going to yell at you?

No. Doesn't mean I'm going to curse you? Does it mean I'm going to call you slur names? No. But it is my expectation that those photos are not on your page to draw that attention to yourself. What are the guys who are proud of that though? They see their girl posting up that and they look at that and be like, yeah, that's my girl. I get it.

She's awesome. She looks amazing. And they don't have that worry of like the marketing aspect, let's just say. I'm fine with that. But I asked him. And that's why I asked him. And that's why I asked you, because some guys, they don't care. Some guys that's showing off.

You understand what I'm saying? And so I'm not judging that act. I'm telling you. That makes sense. In the example, how I would handle it if it was a problem for me. Yeah. And I would say it's not necessarily doing that. That is the walking all over.

But if I were to raise a question about it, and they blew off my opinion about that. Like, I don't know. It doesn't matter. Like, it's just, it's up to me. It's my page. What do you? Sometimes I think it's just a difference of priority. I think there's some people out there that love those photos.

I think it's preference. Yeah, it's just preferences like anything. Yeah, sure. What I would say to that is if that was a deal breaker for you and she blew you off, then she might not be the girl for you. Right. And so sometimes in life, people slide their chips in. Sometimes you've got to slide them in.

So there's this thing that went really viral of you, and I think it was the Tate Brothers as well, which was this song. that you guys quote. Yeah, Cheyenne. Yeah. Still make Shyam and George Strait. Yeah. So what are the lyrics of this song?

So this, for reference, is... Yeah, went super viral. Yeah. Is if something like causes a rift in the relationship and you need to break things off, then you just quote this song and you send these as texts. I get about three a day.

It's a screenshot of a young man texting his girlfriend and he'll just send her the pen. to Cheyenne Wyoming, screenshot it, and I get a message on Instagram. I get it all the time. So what are the lyrics of the song?

Why is it so effective? Yeah, so the telephone rang about a quarter to nine. She heard his voice on the other end of the line. She wondered what was wrong in his time. You never knew what his calls might bring with a cowboy like him. It could be anything. She always expected the worst in the back of her mind.

He said, it's cold out here, and I'm all alone. I'm going to make the short go again. Then I'm coming home. I know it's been way too long. And then she says, don't bother coming home. By the time you get here, I'll be long gone. There's somebody new, and he sure ain't no rodeo, man. All that stuff is super sad or whatever,

but the important part is after that first chorus, the first thing is he left that phone dangling off the hook. He slowly turned around and gave it one last look, and then he walked away. He aimed his truck toward that Wyoming line with a little luck he could still get there in time. So the point is, is that every man in his life has a rodeo.

I remember Tristan telling me the first time you heard that song, he's like, man, I wish I was a rodeo man. And I said, oh, my friend, you are. Every young man has a rodeo to catch. Whether it's an actual rodeo or it's building a steel company or a real estate portfolio or building a podcast, every young man has a rodeo. And most often when put in that position,

and I would say every time if it was my son I was talking to, you have to be willing to leave that phone dangling off the hook, walk away and catch your rodeo. Because you want a woman that is going to be about the mission that you're on and be supportive of it. And if she can't get behind that and she can't do the things that are necessary for you and her to be on the same,

same page while you're on that journey, then you have to leave the phone dangling off the hook. Send her the pen, Cheyenne, saddle up. It is just what it is. And not enough men are strong enough to walk away. And that's how they really get wrecked. They stick in it so long, they really, really get hurt. And it's simply a part of being a man. Like, I think that love is probably the most painful thing that you could get hurt doing. I say all the time is like, I'd rather lose a fight. thinking my heartbroken, because that's going to cost me two years. And we've all gone through it. But what I believe makes a woman respect you

and creates the strong possibility that they will call you back is if you can walk away. And I think you have to do that with grace. And so that part about he turned around and gave it one last look and he just walked away, she needs to know that you're strong enough to live in that pain and still catch your rodeo. And that's what the whole point of that video was about.

I didn't think it would go that viral, but it didn't. How viral did that go? You could go on YouTube right now and type that song in and there'd be like a George straight YouTube video and it would just say Jay Waller Tate, Jay Waller Tate. Yeah, it's pretty big. The video had like two million views before my channel got taken down. And what are those texts that you send because you reference texts that you send when you're cutting it off?

Oh, I'm sorry. lyrics to the song. Yeah, I mean, that, that has actually become kind of like a joke. I would never do that.

What are the texts? Song lyrics. But no, I'll get a text from a young man and dude, I can go on my screenshots right now. I've got hundreds of them.

Because I think they're funny and I take screenshots because when I'm an old man, I kind of want to re-experience my life. And all it'll be is she'll say something and then he'll just send back the Wyoming pen.

Like literally like the Google maps of Wyoming and then they'll screenshot send it to me. Or they'll say, I'm sorry it's come down to this. There's so much about you that I'm going to miss, but it's all right, baby, if I hurry, I can still make Cheyenne. That's actually probably the beef of the message is, I'm sorry it's come down to this. There's so much about you that I'm going to miss. But it's all right, baby, if I hurry, I can still make Cheyenne. He's catching his rodeo. That's funny. What if the rodeo is actually the relationship, though. Should any man's rodeo be a relationship?

Should your identity and everything that you're striving to become be a relationship with a woman? I don't think it should be, but at what importance do you place in the relationship overall? Because it can't just be, you know, work, money, success. I know there's got to be some sort of balance to that. Well, rodeo in the frame of what we're talking about was his mission. I believe that women see men on a mission and respect it and admire him. And I definitely believe that the relationships that last that are healthy that are on fire, there's some level of her looking up to him in a way and really admiring him.

If you can't have that, I think it throws the dynamic off between the sexes. could you imagine a man looking up to his woman like she was just like the opinion like the relationship wouldn't work and what I'm saying is very factual it's like if you look at relationships where the woman

makes more money like the divorce rate goes through the roof like no man wants a woman he can't save from a castle and dragon no man doesn't want to be the hero not because he's insecure because it feels as hard up to take care of her in that way and save her like when when she's sad or there's something that she's always wanted to do in her life and he can be the one to like make that a real thing I think those

relationships are the ones that are going to last longer so why is it that the divorce rate is higher for women that make more than the guy what's what's the the reason behind that is it purely because it's the same thing we talked about earlier it's pergamy women women made are crossing up and so on what planet would a woman want a man that she has to support when do you see that in nature? You don't. And it's natural. And that's one thing that I feel actually bad for women for

is that this whole bad bitch boss movement is telling women that they can go out there and make 200 grand a year or whatever. But I'm going to tell you, every extra 50 grand might as well be an inch taller. You know why? Because they start to disqualify themselves. and I don't think it's their fault.

You see it in nature and clownfish, believe it or not. You see it in nature and almost everything. No, no, no, no, clownfish, women. The female clownfish is the one that is bigger, more aggressive. Right. Not the male. Yeah, but graham. The male cowlfish can also change its gender.

That's only if the female dies, though. A transgender fish? Is that what we're going to compare to? I think not my friend. We got very off topic here. I don't know. Whatever. What were we talking about?

Graham and his trainee fish. I think we should bring this back. All right. We were doing some research into relationships, and one of the hottest topics on that was actually getting out of the friend zone. I never realized how big of an issue this is. So we were wondering if there is a way out

or if you're labeled as a friend that it's game over. Believe it or not. So we did a ton of research in this, and I was looking through Reddit at the most common questions that men have in relation. Number one is how to get out of the friend zone. Number two is how to get back an X. Those are the two most common questions when it comes to dating. So how to get out of a friend zone. Be a dude you don't want to be friends with.

Like, I do it to women all the time. I'll drop. Like, you know, we might be able to be good friends. Like, we're, like how our friendship's evolving. and bro you watch their face when they realize you've kind of friends owned them and I'm just fucking with them I don't want to be their friend at all I ain't gay I don't have girlfriends um be the guy that she can't help but want to be romantically interested in there's not a trick you're not it's not like you're going to treat them any different they have to be attracted to you

it goes back to everything there's not it's almost like that question is almost a PUA question. Be that dude. Be the dude that she wants to be with. The end. There's not some like trick or some you know thing that you can say to her that will change the status or whether she's sexually attracted to you or not. In fact, she cannot help being attracted to you. Like women can't help who they're attracted to. Neither can a man. So it would be like if just like a 10 out of 10 complete Swedish smoke show, like met you on the street and you two were going to be like go to coffee. Like, and she decided she wanted to go from coffee friends to being romantic.

It wouldn't be a hard trend. Like you would already know you wanted to do it. Women know whether they're attracted to a man or not. They're not going to be like, you know what? I look at this guy as a friend. And if he tells me that he wants to sleep with me. You know, that might change my mind. That has never, ever, ever happened in the history of a dynamic between a man and a woman.

She's like, oh, my God, I looked at you a friend the whole time. And now I know that you want to sleep with me. Well, you should have told me so. Let me change how I feel about you in every way. No, it's not how it works. Not real. That's clown world shit. That's bullshit.

Not real. Become that dude. That's the answer to that one. What was the next question? How to get back an ex. How to get back an ex. Become that dude. We actually.

Yes. Funny enough. I think I'm getting the hang of this. Hey, man. It's the craziest thing, but you know what you have to do to get about the X? You left that phone dangling off the hook. You got a nice voice, man. And gave it one last look and just walked away.

I'm sorry it's come down to this. There's so much about you that I'm going to miss. But I got to go now, baby. If I hurry, I can still make Cheyenne. You have to be on your mission. I have never had a breakup where the girl did not call me back. Ever. And it's not because.

I'm a superhero. It's because I worked hard every day to focus on becoming the absolute best man I could be. And you know what's funny about that? Somehow, some way that's kept me out the friend zone also. It's the same thing, bro. It's the same thing. There's not a magic

pill to any of this. That's why I hate pick up. I'm not giving how to get girl advice. I'm giving advice on how to become the best possible man you can be. And you know who else that helps? The girl. But you know what? I just want to say before we go into that, we've spent a lot of money to be able to bring you these episodes. We've traveled across the United States multiple times where we've brought all of our equipment, which is probably worth 15 to 20 grand, but it doesn't have to be that way because we were able to grow to almost a million subscribers, which is the basics, and our sponsor, Stream Yard is able to help you do exactly that.

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LinkedIn and more. So if all that sounds good, guys, guess what? It gets even better because you can try out Streamyard for free, which basically means it will cost you this much, which means zero for the audio listeners. And all you got to do is click the link down below in the description, and you can get started today. Plus, I just want to say that we've been using Streamyard now for many years and have had nothing but an amazing experience with them. So if you want to get started for free, visit the link down below in the description. Once again, guys, check it out for free with the link down below in the description to get started with Streamyard. Thank you, so. so much stream yard and back to the episode. So this is more of a social dynamist question. It's not like a relationship question. However, I'm curious. This has been something that I've personally struggled with a lot and I'm sure a lot of the viewers as well. How do you tell if someone is interested or not interested in you? As far as like a female? Yeah, romantic. How do you know? Guys are really really bad at picking up on signals. Yeah, they are. They're horrible. Okay, cool. So there's a bunch of things, but I'll start at the top, let's say you're at a grocery store. Women will put themselves in your space.

One of the number one things. Eye contact. If you have a girl making eye contact with you, just know this. She's not going around making eye contact with men. In fact, a lot of times, and they've done studies on this, women that just simply have to walk through a parking lot, women are way more fearful than you believe that they are. So if they put themselves in your space, they're attracted to you. If they make eye contact, they're attracted to you.

Oftentimes, especially when they're alone, they don't feel as safe as we do. We feel substantially more safe than a woman does when we're in public. And so for her to put herself in your space or make eye contact with you as one, if you know the girl, she is going to give you attention in some way. And you can translate attention. I'll have a girl send me a message that will be talking about. all about business. We should work together, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I actually just had this happen to me. I'll show you after the show. She sent me this message about us doing

real estate deals together. But then she went, curled her hair, did her makeup, put earrings on, make sure her cleavage was showing professionally, and made me a video talking about how she thinks that, oh, well, maybe I could help you raise private money to get in some of your deals and all this thing. This girl likes me. This girl wants to have some sort of romantic relationship with me. And she's using business as a ploy to get in. It's attention. Attention is currency when it comes to a woman. And oftentimes the words that she says are the text messages that she sends should be translated into what those things really mean. I'll give you another great example. Let's say a girl sends you one of these long book text messages. And let's say she's acting like she's

angry and all this other stuff. And she's even saying, I'm going to miss you by. Let me translate that for you. I love you. I'm sad. I want to scare you into thinking that you're never going to see me again. Goodbye. Bullshit. She loves you. She likes you, bro. And it's just a fact. And so there's that. Then there's reading body language. So let's say you're at a table. Or let's say we're all sitting around like a low table in individual chairs. And let's say, You're to the right of me, and I'm the woman. If she turns this way towards you, women generally fold their legs in the direction

and expose their neck in the direction of the man that they're interested in. They don't even know they're doing it. If you go talk to a girl and she starts fidgeting, playing, fixing, look for these things in body language. I'm telling you. They don't even know they're doing it.

Those are the signs. Those are the things that you want to look for to recognize whether a girl likes you or not. So in the first case, she's coming to you with this real estate deal. Yeah. Well, she said we could work together. Oh, working together. We should work together.

Yeah. You also equally hear stories about women say, you know, I did this. I want to be, you know, taking seriously in my career. And now this guy's coming on to me, and I didn't give these signals. What could that person have done differently in this situation not to convey that she was interested or not? Oh, bro. But you miss what I said earlier. The woman's only going to say that when the wrong.

dude hits on her. Remember what I said earlier about you can take the same woman and you have the same have two guys tell her the exact same thing. One guy's a creep the other guy's charming. Same shit. If that woman, I in fact, I'll message her right now and say, hey, I'd actually rather go to dinner. Would you be open to it? I guarantee you the whole thing will flip. Let's see. I'm very curious. If you say like I'd like to go on a date or like romantic, actually I'm not interested. I'd like to do something romantic or take you out to a nice dinner. To all the ladies that are watching them right now, please comment. I would love to hear what you guys have to say about all this.

How accurate, how inaccurate. That's another thing. No disrespect, ladies. Sorry. This is going to piss people off. I don't listen to what women say when it comes to them talking about what they want romantically. I watch what they do. I can't tell you how many women, almost every woman in my life that I've ever met,

that I've had a romantic relationship even before. sex, let's say, has said, you know, I really am looking for this and this and this. And then I do what I know is actually going to work and what she actually wants. And then men listen to and take quite literally what women say and they wonder why it doesn't go right. You have to understand women. Women will just say shit that they heard or say shit that they want you to adhere to. a lot of times they're shit testing you to see if you'll actually do it. You have to understand women and know how women work and treat them accordingly in that way.

And then they won't leave. You understand? It's like, I don't listen to what, and I don't mean this disrespectful. There's so many incredible, beautiful, smart, intelligent, hardworking, amazing women. But when it comes to romantic situations, I do not listen to what women say, bro. You can't. You have to understand women. As much as the doucheback asshole I sound like right now,

what's important to me is to tell the truth of the world. This is what I'm going to treat my kids. I want you to know the truth of the world. I want you to develop yourself in a way that allows you choice and then go do whatever you want. I agree. I think that the truth is the most important thing that you can... Because I'm not here to judge you.

The truth is, is that I know... I'll show you another one. I don't care, dude. I don't listen to this nonsense. My concern, I suppose, is like on the ethics of something like this. Okay. Because, like, if you're going out and seeing, like, multiple different girls, right? I didn't say that.

So, so you're just seeing one girl, or what are you? Bible study every night, bro. Sorry. Bible study every night. Here's my position on me talking about and, like, bragging about seeing a bunch of women. Could it be true? true, maybe it could be. But the problem and the mistake I think that I could have made

and what I might would do differently than my first two and a half years doing content is that I talked about it as if it was, and I didn't say it, but through my language, it could almost have come off like I was promoting it. I'm not promoting it. What I meant to say and what I should have said is that often when men are put in a position

to have an abundance with women, they take advantage of it. That is true. Do I promote it? No, I do not. Do I think it's good to lie to women? No, I do not, so I don't do it. What happens is, and the ugly truth of this,

is that sometimes, and for me, particularly, I can't think of the last time it didn't work out this way, is that when you do tell the truth, they don't like it, but they stay anyway. I'm not promoting it. I don't think I'm cool because of it, but it is a fact.

That's all. I think that's a really important stipulation is to say that you're not endorsing. I'm not endorsing it. I'm not endorsing it. If you wouldn't have brought it up, we wouldn't even be talking about it. And I think

I think that's where a lot of people get really triggered by me. I'm not promoting it. It is true. It is a statement of fact. And I can tell you literally a fact because literally my life experience says exactly that.

And I would also even say... How else could I say it on podcast? I would say, so ask me a question. Are you dating multiple women? Currently, yeah, I am. They're all 100% aware of this and I think that that's the most important things. Up front, that's one of the first things

that you make crystal clear. Well, I'm not okay with that. If you're going to be with me, then I want you to only love me. Okay, I understand that. I think this is just where the difference of opinion, and that's fine, and I wish you the best. All right, cool.

Left the phone dangling off the hood. I don't know, that's the way I see. And here's, I would even maybe go as far to say that I think it's more ethical to be completely honest, which you were being with this lady that you were texting, completely honest and upfront with your intentions. Yeah. And, you know, if you still, you know, get whatever you want or whatever, I think that's better than being dishonest with it.

And then through some form of trickery getting that. Well, I, you know, it's deceit. That's really the problem, isn't it? Mm-hmm. And that's my problem with a lot of like these trad-contight guys that, like, will point barrels at me and be like, oh, he's this and he's that. How could you? You need to become a man. first of all, let me say something about like a real man would do this. I will never, ever,

ever tell somebody what it will take for them to be a real man. What an arrogant, foolish thing for me or anybody else to tell somebody. Nobody can ever tell you as a person what it takes to be a real man. We all have different views on life. We all know. So first of all, there's that. So like a real man would never have more than one woman. Okay, there's that. One, I'll never do that. I think that's arrogant. Two, I would never, oh no, cowboy, you couldn't. And there's a big difference.

They go out there and they virtue seek that they're a one woman man and they would never do such a thing. But the truth of the matter is, is that they can't. And there's a big difference between being able to do something and not being able to do something. Certainly in the terms and relevance of loyalty. So I would never do such a thing. I'm blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm loyal. No, you're not. You just can't get women straight up many of the times, unless religion is massively involved are, well, almost pretty much that. Men are wired the way they're wired. I'm sorry. Like, if you were deeply passionate love,

God, I hate that we're talking about this. You guys get me every time. Jack. Jack is going on. No, no, no. You know, I hate this subject. Let me just say again. Let's go back to clown.

I am not endorsing this at all. I'm going to tell you now, if you fell in love with a woman and you love her with all your heart, you gave her probably all of your resources, kids, everything. If she said to you, you can sleep with any Instagram model that inboxes you because you have this big podcast and all these girls are coming after and you're handsome and you finally shaved your fucking neck and you did all that shit. It looks good. Thank you. don't sit here and tell me you wouldn't do it like get out of here bro or if she was like you can bring

them home we could do it together shut the fuck up bro yes you would i think some people are just wired differently i agree i agree whatever it is yeah but we're i'm not talking about i'm not talking about the outliers line a thousand men up and see how that goes down yeah i would agree and here's my other argument to that you talk about how loyal you are mr church boy but when your wife goes a grocery store and you beat your dick to porn hub, you're no better than me. I can just get it in real life. Shut the fuck up. That's interesting.

That's interesting that you mentioned. You know what? I've noticed. I think it's like 75% of men in churches admit that they watch porn. See, I think there's a difference between watching porn and physically cheating on a partner. It's all the same to God, bro. So who are you to judge me? You're a sinner just like I am.

get the real life version of it. Sit down. Shut the fuck up. Go read your Bible. But don't judge me. So what's really interesting is it seems like the main theme here,

the thing that gets you riled up, is just... It's a hypocrisy. Hypocry. It's the hypocrisy in it. They sit there and act like, like, I would never know, pussy, you can't.

You can't. They don't want you like that. You didn't become that dude. That's on you. But don't sit here and virtue seek to me that, You're this real man when you just don't have the choice, bro.

It's like people that are broke that say money and everything. Shut the fuck up. You don't have any money. Like, how are you going to tell me that you wouldn't sleep with women? Shut the fuck up. No women want you. Like, I don't even feel, like I actually feel like shit saying this. And I use Tim Pool because he came at me on Twitter.

I don't have a problem with Tim Pool. If Tim Pool walked in here right now, I'd hug his neck. Like, bro, all good. But you're full of shit. But I love you. I don't think I'm better than him. He's a very accomplished guy. But just as a precursor to understanding what I'm saying,

like men will do this shit as a mating strategy. Oh, I would never. Oh, these guys, they're big and bad and they're no good for you and their assholes and their pieces of shit. Well, are they? I'll never forget this. This guy was beef and Tristan talking about how he was a good dude. I think it was some guy from Barstow,

He's like, yeah, I'm a good guy. And Tristan goes, you know what, man, so am I. I'm kind. I'm considered to people's feelings. If there was a girl and I was with her and I could tell that she was truly, truly hurt that I had other women, I'd let her go. I really would, bro. I'd really do that. And I've offered that in the past in some situations.

And they didn't take me up on it. But I would do that. I don't want to hurt anybody. I don't want to be a bad person, but let's not sit here and act like a large percentage. And I mean in the 90s would take the deal that I just mentioned to you if they had the opportunity. Flat out, they would.

And anybody that says otherwise is full of shit. So. On that somewhat topic, let's talk about brocode. Because I think... Let's. Please. It's a topic that a lot of people take very seriously. We looked up what the bro code is online.

We came up with a few. Everyone has their own answers. Everyone has their own answers. I hope I'm the picture next to that. There's quite a few lists on the brocode. Like there are probably in the hundreds, but we got a few of them. Dating a friend's X. Absolutely not.

Is there any situation? Zero situation. Any. Zero. Zero. Ten years has gone by. Not cool. At any point.

No, never. Dead to you. Dead. The other one. Dead! Dead! What's your name? I'm sorry, I forgot.

I knew you for 20 years. Nope. Sorry. No. Absolutely not. The next one. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen TIG-Wan. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore.

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For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero, more like Habinier, yes. Save the Everyday with Amazon. For the brocode. And by the way, just for context,

we copy and pasted this from Google. I just want to give the guys a heads up on this, by the way, because this is actually something that happens a lot. A guy is friends with a guy for 20 years. Guy A gets married. Guy B doesn't, let's say. They spend time together because they're hanging out. They know each other.

a divorce happens over here. That woman will come after this man just to piss this guy off. This man, if he doesn't have an abundance of women or he doesn't have choice of women, is in this desert of not being able to get you know what. And he makes the mistake of letting that 15 minutes blow that 20 year friendship. The answer is no always, always. Number two, if his girlfriend asks you about where he is, You know nothing, nothing at all.

Keep his whereabouts to yourself. Hang up and warn him. Thousand percent, yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah, code. Again, you want to say this next one? What kind of bitch friend would rat you out? Here's the thing.

It depends, I think, on the severity of the friendship. Why are you answering the phone, bro? To your... Your boy's girl? What if she's genuinely concerned? Hey, what's up? You okay? Text her. Text her, bro. No.

I tend to think that the people I would surround myself with. But also, you're honest. Yeah. But let's say, if Macy reaches out to me for something, if she's calling me, I'm going to answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm going to throw this on Jack. Let's say Jack was dating someone. I have something to say about that.

And Jack is out with some other girl. And I know about it. That's the point I was going to make. And she calls me. Says, hey, where's Jack? I'm going to talk to you. and I'm going to say, hey, man, I don't want to get in the middle of this, but you got to come. Like, you got to be honest.

And I feel like there's a certain level of just respect that I would expect my friends and people I have in my life to have. Well, hold on now. Hold on now. We're talking about, they call it bro code for a reason. Correct. Yeah. It's not your place to tell on Jack. No, but it's my place.

But it's also, you have to understand, you got in this position, because. because Jack is full of shit. And Jack doesn't have frame with his girl in this hypothetical example enough to tell the truth. That said, it is code for you to handle it that way. It is to, I wouldn't personally answer the phone. Like, if my friend's wife called me, and especially if I knew that he was like, at least entertaining the idea of that,

Bro, Code says don't even answer the phone, call your boy. that's such a no-brainer to me. I guess the difference is instead of trying to warn him, just a heads up, it's more so like, hey, this is the situation, you got to handle it.

I would, you know, be honest with her. You can't be like hiding around like that. That's how I, you know, well, here's the actual way to handle it.

Hey, bro, what do you want me to tell her? And then you should do that. And then after that, you need to sit them down and say, hey, bro. You know, like,

why don't you just tell her the truth? Because again, I'm not promoting deceit at all. I don't lie to people. If every girl I ever dated that is in my phone or thinks she likes me right now, if she said, I don't care, I'm not about to lie to you. Lying to a woman gives a woman a very obvious sign that you're weak. Like, you're so weak that you have to lie to her. Presque.

It's lying, bro. How can she respect you if you can't even tell her? the truth. You literally look like a seventh grade little boy lying to his girlfriend so we can kiss her on the school bus. Stupid. A lot of women. I would lie to my friend's wife if I asked my boy what he was doing and be like, say,

say I'm with you and we're like playing golf. Maybe I would do that. But I wouldn't like that from him. And I'd be like, hey man, you need to clean this up. Because this, this and this. Because there's bad repercussions to that nonsense. because she's going to catch them. Yeah.

Women have this incredible ability to be spies. They also have an incredible ability to feel when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. Right. It's real. I think they're more in tune with their intuition. They're super in tune, the timing of when you're texting, how everything, they know.

They know. So just the idea that guys should be helping each other cheat on a girl, I think it's bullshit. But as far as bro code goes, if we're talking purely brocode, then no, you should help your boy, but then you should talk to him. Next question. So of our first interview, one of the most viral moments out of everything was how you have a six-pack year round. Yeah. We talk about wanting to build men up to be the best possible version of. themselves. Okay. Our audience, the demographics are highly male. These are young, hungry men that want to

make the best possible life for themselves. Are you still fasting? Is that still something that you're doing every day? Yeah. We're talking about how to get the best possible body, how to feel good about yourself. Right. How long do you fast for? I'll just, like, I won't eat until late tonight. So you haven't eaten yet? No. No, absolutely not. Was it five o'clock? No. Are you not concerned? And I hear that like caffeine is acidic and without other food in your stomach, that it can like damage the stomach lining. I think there's a fair argument. I think it's a fair argument. Maybe it's something like I look into some more gut health.

So maybe. I'm actually about to drop a product, a supplement, is a cognitive supplement that doesn't have caffeine in it. It has a precursor to caffeine. We're going to call it fierce. I'm actually really excited about it. So hopefully I'll be able to knock it out with that. but I think that's a fair argument. I do choose to fast every day.

I've also heard and I think is pretty well put out there that fasting is actually healthy for you and more kind of like in line with how we primarily used to be. I don't know that to be true. What I do know is fasting works for me. Eating during the day kind of makes me tired. Me too. And gives me a little brain fog and I don't like it.

And I also think it helps me at 38 years old, keep my abs, which is not the easiest thing to do with 38. Now, I do want to say something to that topic, and I want to give a big shout out to somebody. I'm actually a big fan of respect a lot as Derek for more place, more dates. I saw the clip.

We were taking about the six-pack? Yeah, the six-pack thing. The one of me. Yes. Yeah. He could have chose to take it out of context and wreck me, and I thought it was very cool how he handled it. And I don't recall exactly what I said,

but what I will say is that what he said about being in a deficit and fasting is actually correct. Now, the point I was trying to make about the weighted abs thing is the closer the muscle gets to the skin as they were to poke out, it can create a six-pack.

But what Derek said is very true. I mean, to lose weight, you have to be in a declarative deficit. So he's absolutely right about that. And so I can't actually recall what I said about six-pack. But diet is got to, Got to be 95 to 98% of it.

So fun story, since you were on, I'm down 10 pounds. Really? And a lot of that was from the Derek podcast where I asked him about my belly fat and saying, I have this circle of fat around my lower stomach that I could not get rid of. And after that, I really started looking through and he's like, do you track your calories? I said, no. And he's like, calories you're getting in somehow. And I really look through my diet and I realized that I'm eating a lot of processed foods,

fried foods. And I think I'm eating healthy. But I'm going through and I'm filling up my coffee with coffee creamer. There's an extra 60 calories there. Just never drink calories. I'm going to, you know, Poki with Jack and I'm putting the fried or fried onion on top of it. That's probably another 70 calories. But little things throughout the day that are just adding up.

And so I went through in January and I did the caveman diet of really just whole foods, nothing processed, nothing fried, no alcohol. and I kept a strict diet. And then the other thing I did, I didn't eat until 12. At 12, I would only have oatmeal and honey. With my coffee, I would drink it black or recently I've been mixing protein powder

and the coffee. So this is a scoop of protein powder, so 25 grams of protein in this thing, 90 calories. And just by doing that, I was down like 6 pounds. I believe it. Just that. I believe it.

No other change in my life. You know the way I look at fasting is like I don't have to count anything or think about anything because I'm just not going to eat. It's like when somebody wears black t-shirts every day. And to be quite honest with you, outside of like doing work events or podcast, I wear black every day. If I don't have something to be at, I wear the same black t-shirt, probably wearing sweats and I don't eat until nighttime.

So I don't have to track calories because it's going to be very hard for me to get above my basal metabolic rate when I'm only eating one minute. meal. And so some people might argue that, oh, well, you shouldn't eat and then go to sleep. It works for me. I think that you could make a point for any diet as long as you're in a deficit. And so for you, I believe that making that choice with the drinking calories and then going at least half the day, fasting is going to continue to pay off until you get to the point where you lose enough fat that you're kind of at a sticking point. That's what people start kind of playing with insulin and all these other things and, you know, fasting or like eating carbs and like telling the body one thing. Like it gets like real scientific and I don't even, you know,

know how to do that correctly. But I do know this. I'll weigh 230 pounds. I have a lot of leftover muscle from being an athlete playing college football. And as long as I can stay lean, I'm generally pretty happy. So that's my goal as an old man. And do you track your macros and Absolutely not. It all comes down to this. Like, how do I order? If you were to ask me, hey, where do you want to go eat? I would say I don't care because I'm probably going to order a steak.

Now, this is outside of us going to sushi. But if you're like, hey, where do you want to go? I'd be like, don't care because I'm going to get a steak. I'm going to get some kind of green vegetable. And that's it. That's it. That's what I'm going to order. So it doesn't matter where we're going to go.

Or I might get chicken. I'm going to get a large protein. and some sort of vegetable, green vegetable, and that's what I'm going to eat. And if I ordered food, it would be the same way. And what about creatine? I do believe in creatine. I take two creatine tablets every morning.

Outside of looking good, what are the benefits of being shredded? The thing about being shredded to me, I would take shredded over big pretty much every time. I just like to be lean. I feel lighter. I feel healthier. I feel better.

I make this point about it. about being lean. The thing about being lean is that you actually look bigger. When people get in this weird back and forth and they justify it because they start to get lean and then people like, are you getting smaller? Dude, when I was like really into working out, especially like at that younger age, when I would try to get lean, people like, hey, your arm's getting smaller. And they knew it would get to me. It would piss me off bad. And so you go, you're like, fuck that. And then you go, start trying to eat all this food and then you don't get lean so you like kind of go back and forth between the two i always say go lean first and then slowly add muscle because when you're

lean every amount of muscle you have looks bigger it just does rambo rambo rambo is a great example of this he shot rambo at like what buck 58 buck 60 but it looks 220 in the movie he looks huge like his back shredded. You can see the muscle definition. Yeah. But you can't maintain that year-round, like that sort of physique. Like that,

that to me seems... I get it. So here's what I'll say about that. My rule is to stay within two weeks of being able to do a beach trip, photo shoot, be seen with my shirt off. That's my rule.

Two weeks. I'm that close. And I can never not see my abs. Now, what happens is, maybe you start to get a little bit of a love handle, or maybe some of those bottom lines that would normally be there, you can see that they're starting to fade a little bit. Jack loves asking me these sorts of questions.

I want to ask you all about abs. About abs? Your abs. If someone offered you $50 million, but you have to gain 100 pounds, would you do it? Yeah, probably $50 million? Yeah. For life.

Oh, for life? No, not for life. But you just shake the pounds as soon as you got them. it was temporary. Yeah, I would just shake them. Yeah, I'd take my 50 million and LIPO that shit out. What do you mean?

What about a hundred million? But you have to weigh 100 pounds heavier for life. Is there a dollar amount that you would put on gaining weight? No, because that's shortening is life. Assuming you're going to live, have the same lifespan,

you're going to live the same amount of time. I still wouldn't do it. There's no amount of money. I wouldn't do it. I put fitness at the core of everything. Like, I would rather be in shape than be really rich or something like that.

Like, I don't, like, I love being in shape is, no, I wouldn't. I would absolutely not do that. I think that's a pretty important message to share. It's like how important it is to get physically fit. It's everything. It's how, I mean, people treat you differently. It's one of the only hobbies that you can have that you can take with you everywhere

and people have to see it. If you were really good at guitar. Or listen, even better. If you're really wealthy, nobody knows unless you tell them, or you do the things that it takes to show both that well. But when you're in shape, it's non-avoidable. You get to take it with you everywhere. And people do respect you and treat you differently.

I think I had a young man message me the other day. And he asked me, should he stop waking up and working out early in the morning or spend the extra money to move closer to his job so he could do so? and I said it's worth the money. I genuinely believe that if you're in shape, not only do people treat you differently, it takes you further in life. I've watched it happen in my own life,

and people just simply treat you differently. They have to respect you. You're put together. You're showing clear signs of discipline and self-care and self-love. And it's primal. People respect people that are in shape. The end.

How often do you work out whenever you do go to the gym? How often do you go to the gym? Now, I probably work out four or five times a week now. and no longer than 30 to 45 minutes. 30 to 45 minutes. So walk us through your average routine for a specific day. Okay. I'll go in.

I have a muscle group or two that I'm going to do. I'll do literally this is how I do my sets. And again, I'm not, I'm not Brandon Carter. You know, I'm not out here like telling people how to work out, but this is how I work out. I'll do warm up sets like 12 to 20 to get the blood flowing to those. muscles. So my mind in that muscle are connected.

So I feel it in the muscle I'm trying to target, basically. Then I go into working sets, which are normally sets of eight, and I progressively load heavier and heavier across those sets. And hopefully I'll fail and hit like six or seven on that last one. Then I'll go and do some sort of rep to fail on that muscle group, on a different machine or with the different barbell or whatever, whatever,

you know, body part I'm doing. And that's it. I'll rep it to fail. So I'm hitting like all that deep, heavy, heavy load telling my body to grow the muscle. Because you're just giving you,

you're really just, when you're eating and you're exercising, you're really just giving your body information. You're saying, hey, it's heavier. I need you to get bigger so we can pick up more.

You know, your body doesn't know that you're not trying to climb a tree to get to fruit. The body doesn't know. So the more weight, the progressive overload is just you telling your body, I need you to be stronger, so you need to get bigger.

So you hit two different workouts, usually. No, what I just told you is, yes, yes, two different workouts. So if you're doing chest, then you'll go in and do like incline bench, and you'll do, you know, the warmup and then the working sets. And I only do incline bench, by the way. I know, we talked about this, yeah. You definitely got me on the train of like doing that a little bit more. That's real.

That's completely real. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe after that you do like some flies or something like that and burn them out. Yeah. And then you're good for chest day. Yeah.

I'm good. Wow. The strong foundation is the secret there. Yeah. So let's see. Been working out 24 years now. I'm 30. I started at 14.

So I can afford to do that. We all have seasons in our life. And for me, spending two hours in the gym doesn't make a lot of sense. And then to be fair. Nobody needs longer than 45 minutes to an hour in the gym. Nobody. I used to spend that much time in the gym because I genuinely enjoyed it.

Genuinely. I wish I enjoyed it as much now as I used to. But you know, I've got some shoulder issues. I've had six surgeries on it. I've had it replaced. Yeah, so I have to work around those things. But when's the last time you let yourself go? How do you define it?

Not going to the gym? Maybe just eating junk. I'll tell you what I believe. I believe. that there's this center line kind of where you want to be and there's this another line above it that if you start to go up too close to that line that's your oh no bullshit we're going to turn this around right now line and that needs to be really close that's why i say two weeks so i never get that far before i put my foot down with myself i'll have fun i just went i did a whole euro trip

I'm going to Greece, Spain, and Romania, and I ate and drank and did whatever I wanted. But if I look in the mirror, see, I also don't do the scale. I think the scale thing is kind of silly. I look in the mirror to make my decisions. I track how my clothes fit on me. Do I feel comfortable? Do I feel like I look good? Or am I starting to feel a little bit come over that belt loop?

That's how I gauge it. And then it's a hard stop. And I go hardcore in two weeks I can have it all back. And then I get into that. them again. I'm a big believer in shitty workouts in the neuro pathway because you're not going to get jacked in one day. And this happens to people. They're like, I need to get in shape. And they go and they kill themselves. So they're sore for a week. Now they've trained their brain. Networking out is absolutely horrible and you shouldn't go back. And so you can't have any consistency that way.

I believe that if you can train your brain or even lighter yourself and say, oh, we're just going to do a little bit. Even if you only do a little bit, it's the action in the circadian rhythm somewhere if you go in again and again and again and again and again. And then never ever letting yourself go. You have to lower that, like tighten that standard of where you are. And that's how you stay in shape. Once you get in shape, it's substantially easier to stay in shape if you just tighten the standard

of how far you'll let it go. And so for me, having that tight standard of what kind of condition I am in is very important. How does alcohol play into that? I saw your podcast with Brandon Turner. You both were talking about kind of quitting alcohol for the most part. Didn't work. Why? I actually don't know.

I mean, I enjoy drinking. I enjoy drinking with my friends. If you're asking me how I get away with it, I'll tell you, I drink whiskey or tequila. with water and I don't like I'm fasted so you get drunk faster than it's tequila and water or whiskey in water with a lime and so how am I really going to get super fat I just it's not going to happen I guess it's more of the psychological mental benefit of the issues of that people drink calories the next the next day maybe you're not as not as you yeah but you didn't ask me about that. You asked me about how to keep a six-pack and drink. I do think it affects you in that way.

I really do. Again, seasons in your life, I'm not drinking that much. But if I go somewhere and there's somebody that I want to network with or it's a good buddy of mine or somebody like that and they want to have a drink, I have a drink, no problem. But again, if we're going back to how do you stay aesthetically, you know, in shape and not get too fat. Well, I drink tequila either straight or with water or drink whiskey straight or with water and I don't put sugar in my coffee. Coffee black. That's it. So that's how. It's empty calories. It's horrible for you. And it does affect your mental capacity. I agree. So there's an important distinction to make that I feel like I've recently somewhat realized is how people respond to failure, how they view failure. And I think that makes,

like the world of difference in your life in literally every single capacity. Like for example for Graham one thing that I admire about him is that if he fails in some capacity, which he does quite often. I'm sorry Graham. You do fail. You do fail very uncommon. He does a really, really remarkable job of thinking of it as like what can I do different next time? How can I benefit from this situation? And I'm trying to understand because I really think that's like a key to success. Is that something that like people are just naturally born into or is that something that can be taught how can you foster that how can you change your mentality to failure to welcome it and be you know not be fine with it but like

wonder how to leverage it to make your life better instead of being like tied down to your losses yeah you just said it all man it's you have to choose how to frame it and if you choose to frame it in a way that makes you want to quit and you're a quitter and you're going to lose anyway people some people in life just want to say oh i tried well winners winners winners don't look at it that way. The reason Graham does it is because he actually wants to achieve the goal. He already took the hit. He already took the worst part of that transaction, which is losing. And so why would he not just get up, understand what happened, and then do it again. A lot of people want to say that they tried and they failed and they lost and oftentimes blame it on

somebody else when what they should do is get up and understand that if they can find a way to blame it on them or accept that they are the reason that it happened, then they could win. but a lot of people don't want it as bad as they will lead you on to believe. And that's why they quit. So a person that really wants to win will always look at their failures in that way. And anybody else is just simply full of shit. And what about other distinctions between people that tend to win in life versus people that tend to lose in life? Like how if you do happen to be someone who consistently loses in life, right?

Like how can you wake up out of that trance? Like what is it certain questions you should be asking yourself? What do you observe in your own life to be able to bridge that gap? I think they I think they fail to take true responsibility for it. If I lose in any situation, even if somebody else did the thing that made me lose, if I don't find a way to blame it on me, then I'm going to fail again. You have to take accountability for everything. And this is not like this accountability speech type thing.

You have to understand that if you don't find a way to make your, yourself the responsible party for it, you are always subject to it. I'll give you an example. Let's say one of my guys make a mistake today on one of the middle buildings. If I don't, if I blame that on him and I don't take responsibility for it, somehow I'm destined to have it happen again. Maybe I didn't put the panel on the roof wrong. Fair enough. But maybe I need to learn how to hire people that follow our systems. Or maybe I need a system for it. Or maybe I need a better hiring process. But if I forfeit my responsibility for said thing, then I am always going to be at its mercy. And I believe that people that win in life find a way to take accountability

for all realms of their life, even when the average person wouldn't. That's what I think the difference is. This might have been more appropriate earlier in the podcast, but what should a man do when he feels himself getting emotional? It depends on what circumstances is. That's another thing, too, that's kind of like people talk about like men can't cry and all these different things. Bro, if I see a retarded kid get put in a basketball game

and he starts draining threes and the gym goes crazy, I will cry happy tears almost 100% of the time. So it depends on the circumstance. You know what I'm saying? Dude, I started crying the other night. I'm going to be honest, I saw a TikTok. It was the most emotional TikTok I've ever seen, and I never cry, but I saw this one TikTok. I started bawling.

It was a mom who took her two kids to see their dad's tombstone with his face on it. And on the back of the tombstone are the kids' hands. And the kids are so excited to see their dad. And the wife, she had lost, I think, I don't know exactly how he passed away, but the wife is there crying as she's showing her. because I started tearing. It was so emotional. Yeah. And it blew up on TikTok.

But that got me. You always asked me, Graham, when the last time you cried? It was when I saw that TikTok. So I think it's situational, is my answer. Now, I'll tell you, there's plenty of times

where I think a man shouldn't cry, particularly, and maybe I'm a little bit more traditional about this, but when it's time for a man to be a leader, especially in a family situation or when his woman's around, I don't think you should be crying for any wife.

Sorry, don't. Not popular. Don't care. So what if you do if you start feeling yourself getting emotional? What if the dog passed away? Is that okay?

No, it's not okay. In fact, you're crying over a dog dying? No. I would, I would cry. Graham. What about a cat? If something happened to rams,

God forbid. What does something happen to your F-150 Super lariat? Someone backs up into it, man. I would buy another one. No, no, no situation that you guys just named would be a crying situation at all.

You would have to like lose a child. So your bar is different. My bar is substantially different. And I also take a certain responsibility around the role of leadership. So let's say somebody that you and your girl love very dearly dies. I want to be the strong one right there if I can. You want to hold it together for her. Now, I'm not saying it's not possible.

So before everybody gets all, you know, been out of shape, but I think a man should take that responsibility to be. the strong one in that situation and hold her and let her cry. What if it's someone like your, you know, grandfather, your parents? Yeah. And they pass away. What, like, what about that circumstance? Yeah, you know, I think situations like that, you shouldn't cry at all because it's your,

it's like you see it kind of coming. So I don't, though. What if it's a sudden? Yeah, cool. I know. Do it on your own. Do it on your own. Do it, do it in private.

Why? I wouldn't do it in front of a partner. And I know that people are going to disagree with that, but I don't like showing that level of, like you're supposed to be the strong one in the relationship. So I don't particularly think it's a good idea to be bawling and boo-hoo and sobbing and snodding everywhere in front of your girl. Couldn't you make the argument, though,

that the strong person in the relationship isn't afraid to express themselves or feel how they feel? Yeah, absolutely. I think you could, but I wouldn't do it. Yeah. see the argument, but I don't. I kind of tend to agree. Like, I don't think that you should be crying at the drop of a hat, certainly. And I think that there should be a pretty, pretty, you know, solid standard. But I don't think that- Losing a child is like the only thing I'd

think of really. I don't know. I think losing parents, losing grandparents, even losing a dog, dare I say. Bro, now you're just out of control. Maybe I just love dogs. I don't know. You're out of control right now. But I don't know. I think that there is something to be said about, like a guy who's comfortable, confident and secure. Like, that's the, if we're, pinning the root of like what women are attracted to. No, no, no, no, women are not attracted to a crime, man. I'm sorry, you want to dry a woman's vagina up? Go cry in front of her.

That's all bullshit. That's all this whole, this whole fake thing that's making men, pussies, man. And you should cry in front of your girl, share your feelings. Bullshit. I don't think it depends on the, yeah. I don't think that you shouldn't, like,

promote crime. You're like, out there crying. Let's say, you go watch a romantic comedy and you start crying. Yeah, good luck, bro. See, but I think it depends on what the context is. I don't too. But you know, you stub, you stub, you know,

you stub your toe and you start crying. Maybe that's a little too much. The state came back medium well. You're medium rare. If your dog dies and you cry, no. No. That's when you be strong and you hold her and you support her let her cry.

Sorry. I don't know. I'll tell you a story. Let me tell you a story. I'm in eighth. I'm in eighth grade. Get a phone call. Come home.

That's weird. I have basketball practice. Get off the school bus. I smell smoke. I'm walking down my driveway and I see the family dog dead. And then I look through the trees and I see that our house had burned down.

All at the same time. Same 30 seconds. I'm in eighth grade. I didn't cry. My little sister was with me. She was crying. It was my job. That's how I look at it.

Like this is a real story. But that seems to me like that was such a traumatic event. That could be shocked. No, but I think in that situation, you had to be so strong and protective for your little sister that that But that's the point, but that's the point,

but that's the point that I'm making to you is like, had I been alone and I would have wanted to cry, oh, okay, I don't think I would have. However, in that moment, I had a responsibility, and I believe that responsibility should be taken very seriously.

What do you think would have happened had you cried in front of your little sister? Do you think that would have made her feel worse or made her? No, no. And that's the whole thing about manhood. Now again, I'm not defining a man. One of the most beautiful things about manhood, in my opinion,

is that you get to be the rock that a woman's emotional ways crashed into. You get to be the strong one. You get to be the person that changed her life for the better. You get to do these things. To me, that's what, like I love my little sister, right? I got to be strong for her that day. in many other days.

And in a relationship, I feel the exact same way. You get to do these things. It is the honor. When they talk about honor, man, I say, one of the biggest honors that I think you can have is being that strong, stoic figure that is there when everybody, and that's what being a leader is too, when everybody else is scared and freaking out and the world's burning down,

if you can be that strong stoic person that will lead them out of it, not being the one crime, not being the one screaming. It doesn't mean you're not scared. It doesn't mean you're not hurt. It doesn't mean you're not in pain. But you get to be that person. I think that is something that although I don't think men are weak,

they're just in a bad position. I do think that's one thing that young men could be missing today. And a lot of that comes from the fact that they're being told that they should act more feminine, which is not true. Did you ever cry over that experience? No. Not once. No.

Not when you were alone? No, never. Nothing. No. When is the last time that you cried? When that retarded kid hit those times. threes. I hate to tell you.

I think you're supposed to say the word. Right? Can I say retarded? I think that it's like, it's politically incorrect is what people would argue. People are pussy's, man. Like, yeah,

I guess he had downs. Yeah, he was dropping threes like crazy gems going, wow. He was dropping threes? Okay, we got to try to find that footage and put that over here.

Google it. Put retarded kid hitting threes. You saw it too? Yeah, you saw it? What'd you think, Mike? Yeah, bro. You just,

He's choked up. Oh, bro. It's so good. I want to hug that kid. He caught fire. It just caught fire. That was hot as a pistol. Yeah, it's sick.

Yeah, sick. Oh, my gosh. He looks like starry-eyed. Like, he looks like his eyes. It's good. I can feel it. Yeah, it's a really good video, man. Okay, well, yeah.

I definitely have to check that out. If you want to get me to cry, hear me out. If you want me to cry, it's going to be out of joy for somebody else. Yeah. That's what's going to make me cry. Seeing somebody achie. something after they tried real hard.

The odds of you see me like boo-hoo cry or next to fucking zero. There hasn't been a time in the past five years that you've cried out of sadness. No. Ten years. No. Bro, I don't think you guys understand my childhood. There's a lot of violence. There's a lot of crazy shit.

I've seen a lot of things in my life. I'm not going to cry over a fucking dog. I've seen real pain. I've seen my father be beat after getting snuck on Christmas morning. them in the front yard. I was supposed to go with them. I can still see it in my head right now. Talking about a fucking dog dying.

No. Crying over that shit. I couldn't cry that day. How am I going to cry over a dog? No. Not crying. Some people are, some people have different experiences, but,

you know, like, again, my little sister was sitting there and saw that whole thing happen. I'm not crying. No. Not over that. Like I said, it would have to be something legitimately,

Like, the only thing I think of is like losing a kid or like a significant other suddenly is the only thing I think of. And still I'd be hard pressed to tell you, I couldn't guarantee you that I would. Not that I wouldn't feel it. Of course, of course. I would feel it. I'm not trying to be hard. I just don't know if I'd cry. That's it.

And I'll give you, and let me say this about it as well. Who is that? Who's the UFC fighter? He did a podcast with the Obani Cry. Strickland? Strickland. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That's one of the toughest son of a bitches on the planet.

You know? Like, I'm not judging him. I'm just telling you I wouldn't. That's it. I can tell you this, though, if I get really passionate about something, it's not from pain. It's just from, like, pure passion. I'll feel it well up.

But as far as like boohoo crying, like sobbing, no, no, it's not going to happen. Mm-mm. Nope. Certainly not from, like, physical pain. So what else is there? Yeah. What do you think the importance is of religion are being spiritual in happiness and fulfillment?

I think a lot of people use religion as a way to let go of things that maybe they're supposed to do. Or they think they can't control or don't want to control, mainly the things they don't want to control. And I think that's good for them. It also answers the question, why are we flying through space on a rock? Which is a very scary question to a lot of people. So religion, the reason I think religion is so good is because I don't think that we in society would exist.

Like if you were to watch Christianity, map it across the world and you follow society with it, it's been very good to make us act correctly, not kill each other, work together, and build a very beautiful thing. So that's why I would appreciate religion. But for the individual, I think it's a sense of community

in some situations that allows them to possibly let go with things that they don't want to face at that time. Like I gave it to God, if you will, which I'm not a very big fan of. So, but then it also gives people hope. And I think that people need hope, particularly the ones that are not as, as strong as some of the others.

I think it does a lot of wonderful things. So I have nothing negative to say about religion at all. Now to talk about finances, money, and entrepreneurship. Okay, cool. To tie everything together in this relationship. What are your businesses that you're currently operating? And what are the numbers look like for those businesses? Ah, ooh, you're getting in my business.

Okay, cool. What are the interest rates on the loans that you have on those businesses, if any? What do you think about inflation? CPI. lot of questions i have bought nine trailer parks for 16 apartment buildings and a large development house in Dubai in the past two years so i'm over 400 doors most of those sit at a eight to ten cap because mobile home parks cap rates are a bit higher on the debt we have gotten from six to eight and that's where those eight percent cap those eight percent

interest rates take my cap rate down yeah but it's also helping me with the price because of the interest rates you're like I'm getting a little bit of a better price I think my biggest risk is you know on on those seven year or five to seven year loans if we were to find herself in a situation like the 80s, that could hurt me. If I see that coming, what I'll likely do is raise money with a 7 to 8% return so I can control the interest on the capital stack. And three of those deals are owner financed interest only, and I raise money. So they're doing really well cash flow-wise. And every one of them is a value ad because the ones that I did owner finance are trailer parks and there's a lot of meat on the bone to take the cash flow

that I'm saving by paying I owe fill the park so upon getting the appraisal at the end of the loan I'm going to be in a pretty strong position so I'm doing well I'm doing well what about the real world I do very well with the real world yeah is that is that like a size chunk of everything that you have going on? Not comparatively in construction. I mean, it's over six figures a month. And what do your investments look like? Where are you storing your money currently?

I'm mostly stored in real estate. And then what about no stocks, no mutual funds, no index funds? Yeah, so I've been investing in the market since I was 25. So I've been getting to Edward Jones 500 a month for years. So I've quite a bit in there. You say that you do a thing called an island test. Now this is something where I try to think of like a utopian, like the perfect life. And I think that this would be like that in a test form.

Can you explain the island test? Yeah. So what I'm talking about is business systems. So the island test is, and this is how I choose the KPIs I want to measure in a business. So imagine you're sitting on the beach. only fans models both side fine baddies millions like really pretty drinking mojitos all day at the end of the day the guy's been bringing the majitos brings you a piece of paper and on that piece of paper has five to 15 things that you want to measure in your business and if those things all check out green light

they got hit you know you can stay an extra day and drink majitos again that's just an exercise that I did with an EOS consultant that we use to help pick daily KPIs that we measure. That's all. That's all it is. How much do you, like it doesn't see, like how much do you work? How much do I work? I work all the time. Like from the second I wake up to the second I go to sleep, I'm probably working in

some way. However, my construction company is a great example. I don't work in that company. people are like how many hours a week I'm like zero but if something happens or if something comes up or I see a report like I might take a phone call

but I don't work in the business every day it's just how I work is different now so what's your like North Star then to continue building and growing and making more money if you're making 30% of 20 million bucks to you at the end of every single year like how would you not just want to enjoy that you know spend a bunch of

time with the family. Bro, have you seen my life? Tell me about it. I mean. Seems like you are enjoying it. I am enjoying it. I love it. But you still are building auxiliary businesses.

Yeah, I'm building them all. I just build them differently now. I have CEOs in place. And when I sit in here trying to act like I'm some business guru, I do very, very well. And I've been very lucky. And I have really good people. And that particular business is 15 years old, by the way.

And then all of the other businesses especially the online stuff where yeah we might make a lot of money but I mean I've been doing podcast tours flying over the world for a couple years now and that's work as well you know so it's just like how I work is different and I'm able to take all the things that I learned and actually scaling one business and reapply them so it's like once you do something it becomes easier and easier to do it. You know, like, isn't it easier for you to buy a property today than it was

in the very beginning? Yeah, so it's a lot of the same thing. I was about to say, I don't see any good deals now. So actually, it's financially easier, but harder to find something that makes sense to buy. But when you first got started, like if you were to see a deal come across

your desk, you wouldn't be Graham Stephan when that happened. Today, you could literally go send an email right now and probably get a load of money to buy the property if you didn't want to use your own capital. And so these things change through whether it's your competency

or your connections or your status. Me hiring today is even completely different today. Because today when I hire a guy, he follows me. He wants to meet me. He literally likes me for who I am versus if I were hiring 10 years ago, it's a mercenary. He wants to get a job,

get paid as much money as possible. and likely even do as little much work as possible not to get fired. And so all these things kind of change over your career. Like most of my morning, every morning I wake up, I grab a coffee or a five hour, now a fierce, and I drive. And I think about each one of those businesses and all the different things that are going on and what I should do and what needs to happen.

And I think three and four moves ahead, kind of like chess, people like to call it. And then I start pulling the trigger on phone calls and all my meetings don't happen until past 12 o'clock. My entire morning is mine. And all I do is think about, call, set up the things that need to happen for the businesses to be successful. It's way more strategic now than ever.

I think about my contract negotiations. I think about how to set up deals to get them, how to make sure that my, My people are staying accountable. I just hired an integrating CEO that's going to be across all the people that run each company. That way, all of the things that we would like to get done quarterly, we call them rocks because we run EOS, he's going to be integrating those people and those businesses to make sure those things get done. But we've made enough money where I can afford to hire somebody to do that for me. And then me and him talk.

And if I need to talk to one of them, of course I will. And I'll be on some of those calls. but if I'm in Spain, I won't. So you'll see, and I know that you already understand, that there's seasons in your career. And sometimes, and I struggle with this a little bit, I've struggled with guilt over this, sometimes what used to work for you

and what used to feel like work to you, because I used to associate work with pain, I had to get over it. It's like, I'm on the, phone all day, whereas I used to might have been pulling a trailer or been in a forklift or on a roof, sweating, doing whatever I had to do to get the job done. Now it's more like I'm way up here and I'm just pulling all these levers and making financial decisions, talking to vendors, saying let's run an ad for more metal building jobs or whatever it may be or calling my main

person and be like, hey, tell the vendor, no, we want this instead of that and like getting prices. You know, I have an insurance captive. So insurance meetings where my workman's comp and my general liability, which is a big cost of my business, literally went from 30-something percent to single-digit number. And that's a $500,000 difference in profit. Like it's those types of things that your career ends up turning into, strategic stuff.

How was that shift from going from the mentality of like working is pain? So you have to be suffering for it to be considered working. to something else? It was actually pretty hard on me because I felt guilt over it. It bothered me. I felt like I wasn't working and I had to really step back

and ask myself, hey, are you actually working? In some instances, the answer was no and in some instances it was yes. But then particularly that business, I don't know that I wanted to grow much more because the return on investment of that business, putting energy into that business is nowhere near what it is if I build an online brand or a supplement

company or a more real estate. I got to the point where I started looking at business models. And I was like, okay, well, you only have a certain amount of energy. I can let this continue to run in the way that it is running. Or I can take that same energy that has a lot of headache with it, by the way, and put it into a business model that's going to produce substantially more money for me. And so those are the kind of decisions that I've been making. They're like really more strategic things. When I drive, I drive for like three or four hours. And I think about this almost every day.

And what is the feeling of like the weight on you and how is that different now versus how, you know, maybe being more like physically involved aside from like pulling levers like you said? What do you mean the weight? Like is one maybe more like what are the challenges? How have the challenges changed? Like originally I'm sure. sure like you know you're expelling a lot of like physical energy maybe the mental it was even more stressful like now now a lot of the stress load particular in the construction business that I should have I should be getting or would be getting is distributed across project managers

and the operations manager the person that runs a company are you not concerned about like if you're growing you're dying yeah we're growing I'm talking I'm talking about I'm talking about like putting this massive amount of energy into it. It's like that would that would be the wrong thing to do, especially that business. Hanging steel is not an easy business. It can be very profitable, especially for a person I grew up in a trailer park.

But man, I'm meeting people now. They have online businesses where they make so much more money than that business makes for me. And so like it doesn't, it doesn't quite make sense. It's interesting. You get a lot of criticism.

online. Like you're a very controversial person. Yeah. I hate that. What criticism do you think is... We should have to hug them. It's completely unfair. And what's a criticism of yourself that you think is fair? If you were to criticize yourself, something you think you can work on. I think it's probably unfair to call me a cringy douchebag. I think that any person that if they got to actually spend any time with me would realize it's not true. I think it's completely

fair that they say my jeans are too tight. Completely fair. too-shae. I can't think of anything else that people really say other than like... What's a criticism or shortcoming of yourself that maybe you have detected in something that you want to work on?

I'll tell you my first few years, because of the space I was in, I fell into... I wouldn't call it locker room talk, but one thing I would change is that if I do one of those panel shows, that I don't fly. for the positive feedback of dunking,

dunking on the girls. I don't hate women at all, at all. And I'm also not perfect, just like they're not perfect. And who the fuck I might have judged them for their career? Now, I will tell you that I don't believe they'll be able to get a husband in the same way. Or like, I think it'll cost them the possibility of people not, wanting to be with a girl that did that. But that's just a simple fact.

I would tell my daughter that. It's the dunking on them that I would probably do differently. Because who the fuck am I to do that? Like, I'm not Jesus. I got plenty, like, I have plenty of things that I've do on a daily basis

that people wouldn't agree with. So it is what it is. One thing I saw online, that went crazy viral, was your meeting that you had with like PPD, Colby Covington, and Barron, and a couple other people. How did that invitation come out? Yeah, I got a message on Instagram from a young man

that was with Trump in a photo. He's like, hey, Baron likes your content. He's a friend of your content, and he'd like to invite you to Mar-a-Lago. That's exactly how it happened. And I said, I'll be there. And this was a friend of Barron? Yeah, it's Barron's best friend, Bo.

follow Bo on Instagram. Shut up. I follow him. Bro, Bo's the truth, me, he's awesome. How did this interaction go? I'm guessing there are certain details

that you're not allowed to share or anything. It was incredible. It was incredible. I went to dinner and then it was me, Kobe, PBD, Barron, Bo,

another member of Mara Lago, my boy Moore. And we're sitting at the table, talking, Trump's at the next table, playing music on Trump is there. Oh yeah, I met Trump?

Yeah. Well, I saw you took a photo with him. No, he came over the table. Spoke. So he's over there playing on his laptop, like playing rock music and shit at Mar-a-Lago. It was kind of trippy, you know, very surreal.

And then we went in the room and we took the photo. And Barron, like, kind of like officially said, hey, I'm going to bed for the night. And then he texted us. And we sat under a canopy that's in the front yard of Mar-a-Lago kind of off to the side.

Secret Service ARs, 10 to 20 yards away, probably 20 yards away watching us talk. It's me, Baron Bo, and Kobe, just hang out, talking about politics, war, the election, things that are coming up. He's an incredible young man. In fact, I was lucky to be able to fly my tailor in. I just made him and Bo custom suits, which I really enjoyed. So we did the whole suit fitting together, you know, picked. pick the fabric and the shirts and all that stuff.

What's it like getting through Secret Service? Do they pat you down? Like, how do they know you're not, like, wielding something within your suit? Yeah, so they stop you at the gate at Mar-a-Lago. And when I show up, Bow or Barron just walks up and said, White Lambo, let them in. And so you roll through. It was actually a really cool moment I had.

So they block it off, right? It's a black SUV. And when I pulled in with the car at the top down, And so the Secret Service guy kind of rolls and like straightens out so I can get by. One of the coolest moments ever. I'm going to kind of, because I want to respectfully go by. Plus I'm inside the gate tomorrow I go now. I'm like, you don't go fast in there.

Like it's not far probably 100 and something yards from the front gate to where the valley is. Dude rolls down the window with the shades on and his earpieces that love the content. It rolls a window back on. I'm like, that was sick. It was sick. Yeah, it was cool. I thought he was going to say, do a burnout. No, no, no, no.

No, he's like, blow it. Love the content. And just like, like, he said it in, like, such a, like, professional way. Love the content. And just like the window goes back. And I'm like, thanks. Do you feel like you got any privacy when you're there? Do they give you space?

Yeah. So, I've been a few times now. So the day that we did the suits, it's me, Baron and Boe, walking, like, through the grounds. and it's just like secret surface is behind you and flanked at your sides. They're not close enough to hear what you're talking about, but they're there. They're certainly there.

I mean, and I mean strapped, ready. Legit strap, like round their shoulder strapped. Wow. And how does Barron feel about that being like a young guy? Barry's a pro, bro. Like, you can't talk about Barron like he's a young guy. I've never, I've not seen much like it actually. he has an understanding of the world.

Like 99.9% of grown men do not understand the world the way Bant and Trump understands the world. Not only does he understand it. He understands where his position is. He understands the things that I think that his father understands. And I think he is a person that can lean into that and do very, very well. And he's not scared of it. I think he's very, very special.

He's done a really good and careful job about, his social media presence. There's very little about him. He doesn't have one. He doesn't have one. Look, I talk to him on Instagram, and it's a fake avatar account. He's a pro.

He really is. I mean, but what would you do? Look at the example he has. What I think is so special about him is that he gets it so early. And I think he genuinely understands and accepts his responsibility as Baron Trump. and he's an incredible young man.

There's really nothing I can say because I don't want to kiss the kid's ass. In fact, he's really cool too. Like the first time I ever talked to him on the phone, I was calling him derogatory terms and he thought it was hilarious. You know, because nobody talks to him like that. And so we're just like cutting up

and like talking like guys. He's very down to earth. But he knows when to button it up. He's, look, he's sharp, dude. He should hop on a podcast. He should come on the ice to go off the other. I would love to hear him just kind of talk. I'm sure his experience through life has been just.

Incredible. Yeah, fascinating. And I'm sure he will. Like, there's no doubt my mind that he run the country one day. You know, it's like being friends with Alexander the Great. Like, and it's not just, it's not just the position that he was put in because of his family. Like, he himself. It's a perfect storm.

It's a perfect storm. He's going to do really incredible things. Yeah. That's all I say. How did that feel personally to get invited to something like that? I'm sure. My whole life, you've just saying like, dude, five years ago, what's today? Sunday?

Dude, I might have been on a forklift somewhere. This whole entire thing to me has been incredible. Like, I had a whole life before. this whole career. I was hanging steel all over the country, you know, like chasing the American dream. So all of this stuff is very new to me. And I'm just grateful for it. Even, even if I do get hate, listen, it is what it is. I'm very lucky. I'm very grateful. I'm grateful for the opportunity. I was very, and still I'm very grateful for the people that gave me an opportunity early. and what I want to do the best job I can

like anything else I've ever done and if I do that I'll be fine. But yeah, the whole thing has been almost surreal in every way. Justin, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. Really, really, really appreciate it. We'll do it again, I'm sure, at some point in the future. Another year from now.

Yeah. We'll make it a yearly thing. How's that? Maybe we should. We'll go get some sushi. I'll make sure Baron watches it. It'll be great. Thanks.

Thanks. That you guys for watching. Appreciate it. Until next time. See it.