The Iced Coffee Hour - Making $130,000 /Month Becoming The Next Dave Ramsey | Caleb Hammer

Episode Date: September 24, 2023

Take advantage of NetSuite’s FREE KPI checklist: https://www.netsuite.com/ICED Start creating high-quality content easily with Streamyard: https://clickurl.ca/ICH-StreamYard NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Timestamps: 00:00 - INTRO 00:36 - Caleb's $15,000,000 Dream 05:50 - Caleb HATES Being A Youtuber 12:48 - Working 2 Full-Time Jobs WHILE Being a Musician 21:38 - Caleb Finances His FURNITURE?? 28:14 - The Used Car Market Is F***ED 33:50 - America Has An Eating Problem 42:45 - Housing Is A Overlooked Expense 44:19 - The Guest With The WORST Finances 49:48 - Why Caleb Has Gotten "More Mean" 01:02:13 - The Backend Of Caleb's Business 01:06:34 - What Are Caleb's Financial Weaknesses 01:11:39 - How Is Caleb Hammer Still Single? 01:15:38 - Caleb The Big BULLY 01:24:31 - How Growing Up Poor Help Caleb's Perspective 01:32:18 - Caleb's Panic Attacks 01:39:50 - Caleb's Biggest Insecurity 01:43:42 - Caleb Is That Guy 01:46:33 - The Meaning Of Life Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's what I've said. Q. Q. Why didn't you hire me? You could have hired me a year and a half ago. Wow. I wanted his job. Do not finance your furniture, Caleb.

Absolutely finance your furniture sometimes. No, you don't do that. How would you bring it in per month on YouTube? All right, Mr. Caleb Hammer. You said something about $15 million. What was that? Okay. All right.

We're getting right into it. Well, I just feel like that when you're, All right. Yeah, you're hitting strong. Yep. Let's hear about it. $15 million. I feel like if you have $15 million in stocks,

and you withdraw 4%, which I know 3% is more long, better. But 4% was the quick math. $15 million in the stock market. $50,000 a month. That's $50,000 a month. Yeah.

It's $50,000 a month. I feel like that's an amazing, if you're in a very good income situation, of which I've become absolutely blessed to be in because I have the most amazing audience in the world, It's like if I'm like one-fifteenth of the way there If someday I get there

I feel like that's incredible Because how can you even spend 50,000 hours a month? I have no idea You'll find a way In Texas you'll find a way It's a bigger house Bigger property taxes

Aquariums It's a Tesla It's a lot of ways to spend It goes fast I just feel like it's It's like The ultimate goal The ultimate goal

You were saying something Graham Where you're like Yeah you're saying 15 now But at some point in the future Yes I think one Once you build up to the point where you get to 15, you're going to say 20. Because what if your stock's half in value now that 15 turns into 7.5?

What if your 15 happens during the peak of a bull run? And then you say, all right, I got my 15. I'm done. You lose 50% like that. Now you're down to 7.5. And then you think, well, now I've got to go back to work. I just think if you were given $15 million today and snap of the hat, done, you might treat a little differently than if you accumulate $15 million over, let's just say, a decade.

I will say I'm very competitive with myself, so I'm sure if for some reason I ever get there, which is still just crazy, that, okay, sure, I'd be competitive with myself. I'd probably want to do more and stuff like that. But 15 just sounds like such a milestone that is slightly beyond what I think is possible, that it's something to just shoot the moon for. Sure. Yeah. And have you mapped out at your current trajectory how long that's going to take you? If things continue at the same path, which we're going to get into very shortly, how long? No, I haven't because I refuse to believe that.

there's something in the back of my head every single day that this thing is going to come crumbling down. That's what I've said. I've told Jack since the very beginning. I'm like, this is the last month, Jack. How often have I said it? This is the last month. I mean, like every time we meet basically, you say that. I have such a big fear and anxiety around, okay, so I have the show.

And the show's primary goal is to educate the people, financial out of educate the people on the show and that educate the audience as well. And I'd be okay doing that only bringing in a tenth of what to bring. I'd still love to do that. It's absolutely good because I could still sustain myself and stuff. Well, maybe not in the new house, but, you know, liquidate that. Move into like a place that I was at before and that'd be totally fine. I just have a fear and anxiety man. We just live in this age where like anything online can happen.

One random person gets angry at you for a yell, I'm someone who yells on my show. It happens. I like the yelling though. $462 of purchases. What are we doing? Do it in the future. Well, it's also just my personality. It's part of the show.

It's my personality, but I yell at someone just the wrong way, then boom, I'm the most evil person that's ever been created on the history of the planet, and it's time for Caleb Hammer's over party. And it's just like, okay, I feel like that's always a preparation. Yeah, but how much of a service

is it providing for you to constantly be worried and anxious about something like that? None, but it's in the back of my head at all times. It's like, because anyone can do anything, anyone can spread anything. This is, the internet is a weird place where people don't care about other people's feelings because someone's behind a camera. They're all of a sudden a person that no longer exists. They are not just a normal person anymore.

It's weird. But see, you can't control that. You could only control yourself. And so when you can control yourself, you can control what you do with those emotions, what you do with your time, what you choose to focus on. And if you're focused on that, we're focused on the things that bring you anxiety. And we're talking about you feeling trapped when we were filming for your episode of you feeling like you're not in control. And I think at a certain point, I'm very much the same way. I like being in control of things.

You just have to let it go. I've been getting better at that, too. I've been very hands-on with everything I've done. But there is a sense of relief that comes with, I can't control it. Nothing I could do. Let the anxiety go. Yeah, it's fair enough. Which is we've all seen people on Twitter, just go wild,

and just follow down any rabbit hole. And so I think that's just always just in the back of my head. Because I never expected to be in this position. I hardly want to be in this position. I know someone's going to say, okay, but you're making a ton of money. Sure, that's great. You know, I have to say your come-up has been faster than just about any other finance channel that I've seen. Right?

Yeah. In finance. I don't think there's anyone that's gone from, like, relatively unheard of a year ago to where you are today. When I'm posting, hey, I'm in Austin. Who should we do a podcast with? It was Joe Rogan was number one. You were the second. And I'm not sure if that's just because their audiences overlap, which I have a feeling is a lot of it.

But there's so many people that said, Caleb. The fact that you went from almost nothing a year ago to that today really says a lot about what you're doing. And I think that's a lot for people to handle coming up with such a consistent schedule like you do and growing at that speed. People have just been so cool and so supportive. It's been really cool. Well, I mean, I was telling you off camera and I'll tell you now, I don't think it's anything that a YouTuber should say, but I like being open and transparent. Sure. And I was telling you this off camera. I actually don't really like being a YouTuber.

I really don't. I feel like it's a lot of kids' dreams, but I don't. it gives me panic attacks almost on a daily basis at night I go to bed with panic attacks I wake up with panic attacks it's just so much stress there's so much I like the interaction so every once in a while yeah I'll you know run into someone on the street like oh kale hammer stuff like that that's cool that's a positive good interaction but even that I'm like nervous in some specific instances like what if I would just

went out in my pajamas that day and then all of a sudden like you know someone recognizes me and it's just like a bad in oh I love that I love when I'm dressed like crap and I'm at Target and I'm doing the ultimate sin, which is wearing socks with sandals. And I do that. I just dress horrible. I'm walking in. So it was like, Graham? And I'm like, yeah. I'm shopping at the cheap part of Target, like the clearance section. It's not, it's, it's, it's what you would expect. If you see me in person, I'm usually dressed pretty bad. Just wearing just, you know, free clothing. I love running the business side of things. I love running business. I know, my dad's a business owner. My grandpa had a small business. My grandma had a corner shop. I think that just,

runs in my blood, love working with the employees that I've brought on full-time. Love that. I hate how public this job is. I hate it. But you're good at it. You're great on camera. So that's why that 15 exists. If I ever got that, I think if I hit that number, I think all of a sudden no one would ever hear from me again. I would disagree. I would disagree with that. I think you're too good at what you do and the demand is there and enough people have an interest in your content. I think you could take it so many places. I think the thing that gives me the panic attacks the most is just the wide audience. So it's such a big number.

Now people rely on me. I have two people who they rely on me to pay their rent. They rely me to pay their bills. And then I've, you know, taken on bills of my own. And then also, I mean, there can be people who disagree with the way I do the show. You know, maybe they wouldn't get financial help being in the seat, right? You know, maybe it's not for them. But then it's like character assassinations and stuff like that.

Things that people, they just, they go to. to this extent and say you're someone completely different than you are. And that gets under my skin with me where they think I have negative intentions because I might raise my voice every once a while. I'm betting that you're going to get over it eventually. I don't know how soon or how late it will be. But I think that right now you're so focused and you say that all of your anxiety comes from this wide audience that you have. No, I think it just comes from an underlying condition of being an anxious person. Definitely am. And once you solve that, having a wide audience and people that are complaining about you online and make hate videos and stuff like that, like that's not going to affect you.

I don't care about complaints. I don't care about complaints or hate videos specifically. It's when people character assassinate. That's what I don't like. But you're assigning all of your anxiety to this up here when actually it's just this underlying condition of being an anxious person, right? And eventually you're going to solve this,

which is going to solve all these auxiliary things. A great book, the subtle art of not giving a fuck. A great book. Have you read that? I have. Okay, I read that a couple months ago. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

There's an audio book, by the way, for free, I think, on YouTube. So you could just listen to it. The book is actually better because I feel like you internalize it more. A great book. I'd recommend that. This feels like a Caleb Hammer vent session so far. I think so. We'll get more into the venting.

But the reason I were here about one more thing. Is it in and out? No. Okay, go ahead. Let's not. It's fuck you. Fuck you. Why didn't you hire me?

You could have hired me a year and a half ago. Wow. I wanted a job. What was the job for? I don't know. Any job. This was to do Jack's laundry. Was it actually?

Yes. Anything. I would have done anything. I wanted a change in job. I had enough saved up. So here's what happened. Two and a half years ago, give or take. This was Alex's position?

Yep. Yep. Caleb was right there. So we asked our audience to submit a video on YouTube, just titled it, Grahamstaff, an interview. And in the interview, we want you to share why you think that we should hire you. And we look through all the videos. We've probably got 100 submissions. We're sending submissions.

But Caleb, I think you were saying you wanted to make one of the, videos but you decided against it and instead you went with a financial audit approach because you're going to film a video well yeah you already hired him so yeah like a year and a half going i was just done i got turned down by another YouTuber and stuff and then i was like damn but i want to work in the youtube space and like you know uh watch you forever try to get in your dms no looks right no i totally get it i get a trillion dms a day now so i i get not being able to look at them so that makes sense and then you also did not look uh i don't check him Alex also did not not look, but I scored a one-on-one with him.

I paid for a one-on-one with him. And I talked to him. And I was like, okay, can I get a job for like $0? Like, I'll come work for free because I just want to work in the YouTube space. And the answer was no, and that was totally fine. But I was like, you know, I'm going to show that I know Graham's script style. I know Graham's video style, editing, blah, blah, blah. So I ordered like everything of your set.

So I could redo the set, film, write a script, and even do like the Graham talking arms. and everything. And record that, send it to you guys somehow. And then maybe get a job. Last attempt ditch right there. Then I just decided to record, make a show that I wish I was able to watch. That's good. What were you doing before then?

I... Because I noticed Caleb Hammer composer, so you're into music. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, that's always been a side hustle. And I studied music composition in college and dropped out. Actually, I dropped out to college. But what I was doing right before that, I'm a little naughty. talked about it before. I was doing the classic work from home work two jobs. But you know what?

Before we go into that, we have a bonus segment really quick. Jack sent me a few of his expenses, and I have to say it's atrocious because everything is completely disorganized. But Graham, I have so many different softwares and plugins that I need to subscribe to to run my business. I mean, what do you recommend I do? The thing is, running a business could be tough and try to manage that with a whole bunch of different softwares could be really confusing. But that's why our sponsor, NetSuite wants to help. All you have to do is remember three numbers, 36,000, 25, and one. 36,000 because 36,000 companies have already upgraded the NetSuite. That means they stop doing things like typing in data by hand and searching through scattered numbers. 25, because NetSuite has spent

25 years helping businesses drive down their cost. And one, because NetSuite is an all-in-one solution that allows you to manage all of your KPIs or key performance indicators with one efficient system. You know what, Graham, you're right. NetSuite can help. reduce mistakes for manual data entry, which there always are, and prevent your busy work from scaling with the business. So get a full picture of your business and help make better decisions faster. Make sure to download NetSuite's popular KPI's checklist for free right now at netsuite.com slash iced. Again, that's NetSuite.com slash ICE to get your own KPI checklist for free, netsuite.com slash iced with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much. And now

let's get to the episode. So you had a full-time job and then you were also doing something on the side, They didn't know. I had two full-time jobs. In non-competitive, non-competitive businesses. They didn't know that. No, and I talked to a lawyer before this because I wanted to make sure I had them read through the employment contracts of both companies. Nothing is against this that they could take action of now because, one, I don't work for either

of them. And two, they weren't competitive businesses. And I didn't do anything that overlapped with each other in terms of different work projects on either. But yeah, I worked one job and another job and I had half the time blocked off as busy on each calendar and just had like thousand hours of meetings and then I got laid off from one of the jobs fairly enough because I was doing shit

and also I was done with that company because that company and I'm not going to say who though and they're just they weren't very good and they're going downhill but whatever and then I stuck with the other job for a little bit but then YouTube started taking off and so I ended up quitting that job so what did you do out of college then if you dropped out Why did you drop out of school?

I dropped out, and this was not a financial smart decision. This was like, what, seven years ago or something like that? I dropped out studying music composition. This is going to make me sound like the biggest asshole in the world, but this was like my actual logic, not, was not trying to brag. I was making more money selling my music compositions than my professors were. So it was like, how much do you make it? I didn't even know you did that.

Not that much, like an extra 20,000 hours a year. It's nothing crazy. We're selling your own music company. So you write actual music. So like in the concert band world, Like people will pay you like a certain number per minute of music that you write in like an original piece and then people will then purchase that music eventually once it's published. So you play the piano or what is it that you? I played the trombone, a little bit of the bassoon.

I can fake the piano more like chords melody. But then I write music like that. How did you get started doing that? Were you always just gifted in music? Dude, I don't know. It was random. Fourth grade. We had a music class that everyone hates.

No one likes elementary school music class. So I think I did. You did? You liked playing the little? I was the recorder. We never did that. No, I was involved in like the piano and stuff. Oh, okay.

Either way, we would have like, every once in a while we'd go to the computer and we'd take like music theory or whatever, I didn't know. But the quicker you complete the assignment, you can go into a program where you drag notes onto a thing and it makes, you know, songs and stuff. And then I was like, I asked for that for Christmas, that program.

And that's what I ended up getting. And then I just, you know, fell into the, of just writing music and coming up with music. And the idea was like, okay, there's a piece of music I want to hear it, doesn't exist yet, so I'm going to write that piece of music. So you're making music, making about, what, 20K a year you said? Extra, something like that. What period of time in your life was this during?

College. This is during college. Okay, so then you dropped out of college. Yeah, right. And then immediately after college, you got this product management job. Not immediately, no, I was just working around doing extra jobs, barely making it by the music composition stuff plus Jimmy Johnson's and some other odd jobs and stuff like that. But then I ended up getting a sale.

job down in Austin five years ago because one of my friends that I've known forever, he just recently graduated college. He ended up getting a sales job down here and they were looking for the exact same position. And I was like, oh, okay, well, there you go. I've always wanted to be in Austin. So perfect. Pack up the sedan, come down in a week and then just kind of built a mini career at that company.

But I was able to do very well in sales. So that's how. It was like education when it comes to. trading and different things you can plug into your charts to help trade. Okay, so like indicators and stuff like that. So we were selling educational classes for trading and trading indicators and subscription services to watch traders trade live. And then so the sales team was responsible for getting people into those.

So it wasn't much cold calling because we didn't have a big team. So really we only had time to focus on the people who are already internal. And it was actually quite an easy job. I always led the sales team, which was a very big prideful thing for me. except for my first month, obviously, when I didn't know what the fuck I was on. So I ended up leading the sales team, and that's how I paid off all my debt as quick as possible. Before then, a couple years before then, a couple years before then was when I started to get really interested in to personal finance and becoming as educated as I could on that. And then landing, you know, the first adult job, it was like the perfect avenue that sales, as much as you grind, as smart as you are in it, you can make an indifferent, like an infinite amount of money as long as the company doesn't suck, right?

So I just worked my ass off and made as much money in that role. as possible to pay off the debt, start investing, and then save up a 10% down payment on my first property, all within a couple years. And how much were you making doing sales? Over 100. You're making over 100 from that. Yeah, even though the base salary is 30. But what about that other job that you were also working? Well, that was only the last six months. Got it. Okay. The last three, four months at this original company. Yeah. So I was doing a product management role of both the companies. And then got laid off at the first one. Totally fair. Reasonable. I wanted to quit anyway. I was just like, I may as well collect the dual income over here, which, I mean, come on, not a good thing to do.

I don't recommend anyone do it. Like, I don't feel great about it, but it happened, and I'm open and honest. It's not something I would say anyone should do. But, yeah. What led you down personal finance at that time? Well, it was way before, man. I've always been interested in real estate. I don't know if it was growing up as an HGTV kid.

I'm not sure, but, like, just delivering Jimmy Johns to all throughout college, I actually delivered to a lot of the rental property management companies, and I just became really interested in that and just, you know, bigger pocket type material, bigger pockets. I got really into that, reading the books, audiobooks, whatever. And I started getting into real estate that way. And then real estate, I feel, it's a good natural overlap in just the world of personal finance and wanting. Then I think that was more like Dave Ramsey started hearing some of him and like, oh,

a lot of people are in a bad situation. Like, oh, my situation's bad. Maybe I should do something about it. it then, you know, actually work to do something about it and sacrifice. I feel like real estate is extremely appealing because it seems like the most hands-off you can be while making passive income. Whereas like the other things that appeal to the younger generation, such as like trading and stuff like that, that's like, okay, you have to have some level of expertise in trading and it's more active income, although it could get you

rich quicker. But real estate's like, okay, you can build wealth over time, which is still exciting, but it's also extremely hands off where you're like, okay, that sounds really nice. Especially if you're working with a brokerage, yeah, or a rental property management company. Because yours is pretty hands on, right? Not anymore. It was. When I was actively involved in it, oh my gosh. I was going to those rent.

But I was also doing renovations and I was there every day, sometimes twice a day. Yeah, no, that's just keeping an eye on. Yeah, I couldn't stand it. I mean, at the time I enjoyed it. Yeah, I have four tenants that rent rooms in my house. But they're basically your pals, right? Yeah, they're just my friends. But at the same time, like, just owning a house, like stuff will go wrong.

So, for example, like, there was raining, like, for a whole week in Vegas and now we have just like. Have you seen the mushroom? Yeah, we have. a mushroom. Jack has mushrooms growing out of his wall. So that's getting inspected right now. I had some of my floorboards.

They were leaking water. Water was seeping from beneath the floorboards. So getting that checked out as well. Just like other random home ownership things. Did they ever find out what was wrong with your wall? Our patio cover, it's bolted into the to the wall. And then the bolts were not sealed properly. So when the rain came, it ran down the facade of the house into where the connection point was.

And then that went in between. the wall and then it went down to the floor and then out comes a mushroom. That's a long ways for the water to go. I would be worried about the damage all the way down. All the way down. Yeah, well, I mean, we're going to open up the wall and get it all checked out, but the water all settled at the bottom. So, like, that's where, you know, the moisture was detected when we used a moisture meter.

You could always just be an idiot and go buy a brand new house. I could do that, yeah, at the rates that we have right now, which you just did and we'll also get into that. But anyways, that is the grievances that I have with homeownership, but it's a beautiful thing. I think it's important. Why did you quit your $100,000 a year job to do YouTube? Well, I quit it once. We were at $10,000 a month.

And I was doing all the work myself, so I got all the money. So that kind of equated to it. And I made sure I saved up a one year emergency fund before I went into it. Because I think business owners should have probably one year emergency fund. Honestly, again, I do not want to just say this over and over again and let it lose weight. Like, okay, sure. I'm sure I do an okay job on the show.

literally everything goes to the guests who come on the show because there wouldn't be the show if people weren't willing to come on and put their financial situation and display and like for the whole world to learn off of so thank you to them and then thank you to the audience this is not something I could have ever even dreamed of does it feel fake or real it feels fake it feels completely fake yeah like I mean I've the only thing I've upgraded in my life is a house and it was an expensive house

I needed more space but you know that you had to finance the furniture You took loans to buy 0% 1. 0% Do not finance your furniture Caleb. Absolutely finance your furniture.

No, you don't do that. You do not finance furniture. I try to do it, Caleb try to yell, I can't do it. Sometimes I like 0% finance when it's a finance.

How much was the furniture? I think in total percent financed the all of it back there. Okay, so how much was that? You finance something 30,000? 30,000? Maybe.

With the TV sound system couch, chair. rugs, the guest bedroom stuff. So all the furniture I bought for this entire place, probably $30,000. Including some of the staging furniture I bought. But isn't it like cumbersome to go in like auto, like, not auto pay, but like pay that and then your condens of it and do they want a credit check on you on that they must, right? Yeah, I think so.

No. I don't know. It's not cumbersome. It happens on a monthly basis. I make sure I always have $50,000 in my checking account. If I always have $50,000 in my checking account, plus a one-year emergency fund on the side, then when that happens, it happens. It hits your account.

It's gone in six months. And I invested that, what did I say? $30,000 instead. And guess what? Since I invested it, the stock market has been great this year. I've made a great return on that investment instead of. Could have just as easily gone down, though. You could have invested that money in the stock market goes down 20%.

It's hindsight. Hindsight is great. It would have been in, though. And it would have grown historically. What you did was smart, right? What you did is objectively smart. I'm just honestly, I'm a. astonished you did that.

Really? It's something I advocate for on the show, but not for most people. People who just have clearly demonstrated that they are bad with money. Exactly. I think if you can finesse money, I love finessing and love taking the extra mental effort to just go wild for an extra 0.5%. That's okay because I can manage it. For the average person, I don't think it's a thing.

Just like a credit card's not good for the average person. I don't think a car loan is good for the average person. But I think if I have $20,000 and I'm going to go buy a $20,000, thousand-hour car and I can get a rate at three percent on the car I'd rather put a thousand dollars down on the car get it at three percent though that other 19 thousand dollars in the stock market I think there's a level where it just becomes trivial and it becomes not even worth your time anymore you're right I think for me it's more fun I like finessing it because it's fun it's a game finances in the end if you're doing it well regardless of the income that has been

blessings but even when you know I was making the hundred thousand hours so when I was making $50,000 so when I was making $30,000 a lot of the stuff finding the best deals and stuff like that. If that's something you're into, it can be funny. It's like a video game. So I think that's one reason I went about it. But before we go into that, if you guys have been following us or Caleb Hammer for a while, you may have noticed over the course of the last couple of years, our production quality has drastically improved. And if a financial audit was done on either of us at that time, it would not look pretty. Well, thankfully, Streamyard is a live streaming software that allows you to create high quality content with just the click of a

button for the low cost of free. So you're saying like the $10,000 we put into the studio, we could have just done it for free? Technically, yes. All you need is a camera and an internet connection, and from there, you could stream really high-quality content right from your browser. Plus, you could stream to multiple social media platforms at the same time, including Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and more.

Plus, guys, they have so many other amazing features that we haven't mentioned yet. Like, they have analytics tools that tell you where all of the traffic is coming from. We highly recommend you guys check out Streamyard. It's completely free. Check it out with that link down below in the description. Honestly, guys, Streamyard is one of the best ways

that you could begin creating high-quality content without spending a ton of money. And one of the best ways to start is just to start for the low cost of free. So the link is down below in the description. We highly recommend you check it out. Thank you so much. And now back to the podcast.

We went through. You have $37,000 of student loans, not bothered paying that off. For no degree. Yeah, for no degree that you dropped out of school. But you're trying to arbitrage the 4% on the student loan that's non-tax deductible with your investment returns in the stock market historically.

And hoping that that's enough to cover the student loans and make a bit of a profit. Because I know I can pay it off today. Yes. And I know that from the savings in the side I can pay off. If I didn't have that, I wouldn't invest the other money. But you learn from experience because of the people that you have on the show, you go into them when they graduate with a whole bunch of debt.

I've seen it, especially private debt. Private debt for useless degrees. But also, once I get through all their debt, usually the last thing we talk about is any federal student loans that are at 4% or less. And then usually for them, depending on the situation, I'm like, okay, minimum monthly payment sales paid off. We need to catch up on investing because you're 40. You don't have to see.

People sent to your name. So I'm curious. Where do you find people to be on the show? Well, 99% comes from the audience. Is it DMs? No, no, no. We have a survey in our description so people can fill out there. So for weirdos who think we're like taking advantage of people.

No, people are going out of the way to come on the show. People are literally going out of their way in flying multiple states because they want to come on the show because they know it's the method that helps them. And they want to put their situation on display. It is the exact conversation that I wish I had at 18. Might not work for everyone? That's fine. It's the conversation I wish I had because it would work for me. How much research do you do ahead of time on your guests?

A good amount. Now I've been able to, so we collect their information. We put it in a spreadsheet and we see who we could probably help the best. There are good conversations that can happen from people who've built a good amount of wealth. But I know that's also taking a limited spot away from someone who's like, Caleb, please, I need to be on the show. I'm literally like going to die in. debt. Please build me a budget. What does it take? So we figure out the people we can best help

come on the show. They do that. I have some part-time people also on the side who help put all their stuff into spreadsheets and build some things out with me. So it can save me a few hours for each episode and then I personally go through their documents as well. And how can you tell if someone wants to be on the show, just to be on the show and get some publicity versus someone who genuinely wants help? Because from what I've seen watching almost all of your episodes, some people on there, I'm like, they don't give a crap. They just want to be on. They want the airtime.

They're trying to get their name out there. It just seems like you could tell them whatever they want, your excuses. And then at the end, I'm like, they're not going to do anything with that. Which is where I definitely, you can see, I get more irritated with them more than other people. But I know that even still, the advice that I give them in their situation, you know, getting at least 200,000 views an episode, it's going to help a few thousand, hopefully, that are relating to their situation. So even if they might not walk away with it because they're just a little for coming on and getting, you know, publicity or whatever the reasoning, someone else is going to benefit. And what trends have you noticed amongst people that are struggling financially?

Like what are they doing with their money? Why is it not going in their favor? Everyone's good with getting a five, six, seven year car loan at 25% and thinks that that doesn't mean anything. So that's crazy. I mean, what? The average new car payment? What was it? I think it's recently come out to like $800 a month. It's insane. If 50% of the people in the United States, 50% who have a job make $30,000 or less on a yearly basis, $800 a month as the new average car payment, that's insanity. Now, what's interesting is that when you look into auto loans, they're not regulated the same way that student loans are or with mortgages or even credit cards for that matter.

Credit card reviews your income in such a way where they're not going to give you too much of a limit because that's an unsculated. secure debt. They're not going to collect on that if you don't pay that debt. They're going to discharge it. But auto loans for the most part are very unregulated. It's a very much gray market that they could sell these off privately without there being a rule out there that says, oh, we can't qualify you for this. Most auto loan places are able to give you the loan that you want by just extending out the term, even if the interest rate's 20, 25%. Yeah. It's scary. It's scary. I'll also say there are On the show

I try not to talk about a lot of societal things Because it's like, okay, that's another show We can cover what should, what should not Blah, blah, blah, and also just vote however you want to vote That's whatever we don't get into that My job is to say, okay, this is where we live right now And this is the best way to navigate it Because it's irresponsible for me on the side of the table

To say something different One thing I will say societal that I like to rant about And I'll rant about for a second Our car infrastructure if it's a societal text that we have in the United States that everyone has to have a car to survive. It's so fucked. It's so stupid unless you live in New York City,

San Francisco or Chicago, where they have actually decent public transportation, you essentially have to get a job in order to work in order to afford the car that you're getting to actually work. It sucks, man. It sucks. That infuriates me. Well, that's why I like Dave Ramsey's approach

that the car you could afford is the one that you could buy out right in cash. or the car that you could pay off relatively quickly. I think people are sleeping on these sub-10,000-dollar cars. You go on Craigsister Auto Trader. So many great cars out there. Six, seven, $8,000, a Toyota Corolla with 100,000 miles on it. It's good for another 100,000 miles easily. Very reliable car.

People are also just a great car. So people will get that $3,000, $5,000 car. And they won't get it checked out by a mechanic to make sure that it's going to be safe for them. And it's going to be reliable for at least a few years to come. And then it just breaks down. and it gives, yeah, cars within that price category a really bad name, which is very fair. I would venture to say that more people in that category

just want a newer car. Oh, very, oh, yeah. Much better about, no, I want the car that's two years old. Just if I have to pay more, I'd much rather, I'd be happier in that car than this old piece of junk over here. I don't want to be seen in that. I think there's also a lot of pressure

to be seen in a nice looking car, and that's almost a reflection of who you are as a person. If you see someone pull up in an old car, are people going to judge you for that? Are they going to think that maybe because you're driving an old car here, maybe you're not as good as what you do. If you're good at what you do, you should be driving a newer car because you could afford it.

So there's all these image things that I think play into that as well. I have to say I am blessed to have the mindset that with the income that I currently have that you all have blessed me with, completely thanks to you. I don't give a shit about cars. So I probably will never spend money on a car that is way too expensive. I have my 2019 Jeep Cherokee that has good soundsets. And that's all I care about.

That's good. Very lucky. Do you find that the people that end up overpurchasing on their vehicle, they regret it or are they still happy about it? And they think that the source of all of their financial problems comes from something else. Well, it definitely comes down to how they're prioritizing their money in general, like the big picture in terms of where their money is going.

But then, yes, those little decisions that can be big decisions like the car is definitely a big thing. A lot of people are regretting it more than they were at the beginning of the show because car values, you know, they were. great when I was first starting used car values and though it's still not the pre-pandemic levels not even close and it probably never will be. It has come down a little and a lot of people

who have come in with these expensive used cars now find that they're underwater by thousands and thousands of dollars. So selling it is not always an option anymore. There's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus, it's the

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that we have on the show to come up with a good solution other than it says time to sacrifice for years. I mean, what do you think that someone should do if they're looking for a car? Or they think their car might be too expensive for their needs. If it's too expensive for their needs, I mean, just, I think it just comes to the overall maturity around the purchase of it. But when it comes to the average person looking for a car, as long as we're budgeting out, we have an emergency. So the question is then, okay, why do they need a new car?

Did their car break down? If the car broke down, they should have a six-month emergency fund. We can at least get a temporary measure while we then build that up and then pay for another car. Now, does someone need another car because they just want another car? Okay, fine. Then we're putting in our wants category, a certain percentage of a side on a monthly basis that is going towards saving up a cash pile to get the car that we want. Again, I think some people can finance, finesse low interest car loans. I do not think that is the average person you did with your Tesla. Lovely. And I think that's good.

I might, if my Jeep ever breaks down and I can get a good rate. But I think for the average person, just like cards, a cash option is better for them. And aside from cars, what other trends are you finding or patterns amongst the people that are financially. struggling. Yeah, spending 40% not eating out. Eating out. Oh, yeah. So it's like fast food or is like fancy restaurants. And trust me, I like my nugs. Everyone knows I like my nugs. But like when people are in really bad debt, but they're only paying their minimum monthly payments and they have zero in retirement and only their minimum monthly payments is counting for 5% of their overall spending. But 50% of their spending is going to eating out. We got some priorities that need to be

straightened out. Why do you think people aren't cooking at home? Why do you think they're so prone to all the time. Well, ease of access, I mean, luckily it fits in my budget now, and I definitely eat out a good amount. And what it fits in my budget, a lot of the reasons why I can speak to my own reasons for eating out, I got addictive tendencies towards it. So when it comes to the fatty, the salty, the sweet and stuff like that, that can, that's honestly my addiction. You got to crush that. Just get rid of that. I know, I know, but it also. The salty sweet one is like the brain hack. I think your brain just craves that naturally. And so anything's giving it. So So whenever I take it away, it's really, really difficult for me.

Now, I was able to do that when it came to getting out of debt and saving up for a house. I was able to do that from a financial standpoint. But when I think about my health, for some reason, I am not as motivated. And I need to be. There, I feel like so many reasons why people don't take action, especially with regards to their finances or with regards to, like, eating, which is because the consequence of the action that they take is way too detached and delayed from the action they take. Oh, sure.

For example, when you're eating fast food, it's like you feel great immediately. But then the consequence of eating that fast food, such as gaining a little bit of weight or maybe feeling lethargic. It's like days down the road maybe. And you can't necessarily see like a one-to-one, you know, this is my action. This is the consequence from that action. And the same thing goes for finance. It's like, you know, you can save a little bit of money here. But it doesn't matter if you spend it because it's just a few bucks or you can put it on credit.

But then it delays the consequence of it rather than like when you're a kid and you say a swear word and your dad comes up to you and spanks you right away. you're like, okay, now I know, I say a swear, I get spanked. Not going to do that. But with food and with finances, the consequences are just so far out in the future. Yeah, no, that's true. And it's also just daunting to tackle at, you know, the offset, unless you're in it already, you know. So losing weight starting the diet or tackling a big amount of debt, you're already in this train of just doing what you're already doing. And you know this is a big problem.

It's a daunting thing to overcome and start. But once you start, it's actually much easier. And then you start seeing the progress you making it motivates you to go even further. It's so similar between finance and health, though. And I feel like because you're on such the finance path that eating healthy and going to the gym should be so easy for you. Because it's the same thing, the same qualities that you do to saving money are the exact same to eating healthy and going to the gym. You know, it actually might be easy for me. It's just, I think it's the daunting starting.

I think if I started and I continued down healthy, sustainable rounds. So I've done extreme cuts before And it's resulting in good progress But it wasn't sustainable And I bounced back Yeah I think if I head down it I'm quite disciplined once I'm in it

I think everyone thinks that they need to like Exit the Gate sprinting And I don't think that's the case at all I think you could just start by introducing healthier foods into the diet And maybe going out a little bit less But it doesn't need to be like zero to 100 Good thing we all ate 10 burgers right before this time

Yeah what the hell was that all about man You ordered the entire menu We showed up here Tasting And you I mean you walk in And how many bags? 15 bags?

Oh, easily. I mean, like, I had, like, I had six burgers, which I should not be. You had six? You actually had six. No, you didn't have six. Probably somewhere around there. Are you serious? He had to cleanse his body from all his love of in and out, all the nasty.

Did you take a nap afterwards? No, but I felt like I was going to die. Oh, my gosh. That's why I stopped eating. I think it is extremely important. My one piece of device, get in good shape. Getting in good shape. That's what I was thinking.

There's no excuses. You have no reason not to. I know it's scary. I know it's daunting. But it will be one of the most rewarding things that you have done. You know how rewarded you feel when you help someone out with their finances when they come on your show? And they DM you weeks later. Like, hey, you know what?

I paid off my debt. I paid off my credit. I paid off everything. 26% APR. Like I paid it off. You will feel, dare I say, just as good, if not better, fixing your own health. It has been for me one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my entire life, taking it seriously over the past year, cleaning up my diet.

I feel more motivated. I feel like it's easier to get out of bed every morning. I feel like I have more energy. It's easier for me to just get started on a task and it would have taken me, I don't know, like an hour to muster up the motivation to do beforehand. It is confidence too. You feel better about yourself.

Oh yeah. My confidence would go up. Oh yeah. Get more matches. Then your anxieties too and all these judgments. Trust me, I've been very fit. And I have the same anxiety. You know what I would do is hire a personal trainer and prepay them.

I looked at that. I did look at that. Prepaid them for like three months. Yeah. I looked at it before. I moved in that. Yeah. I think you honestly, I wouldn't even worry about working out right now.

I would just clean up the diet. Because working out is a whole other thing you'd have to introduce. But I think you do it in conjunction. Oh yeah. It'll be nice. I think the benefits from working out or just. Working out is it's just adding. I feel like a little bit too much at once.

I do need to get my cardio fitness up though. I know my cardio fitness level is definitely low. Which is not good. Staining treadmill. I have an elliptical in the room over. How often you use it? Well, now nothing. But I did for a bit.

Again, I fell off that wagon. You know what? You might be a little too intimidating if I came in and you're just like jacked. And you're telling me how to run my finances. Here, it's not as spooky. It's got a thick boy y'all now. But imagine you come in like Ronnie Coleman, you sit down, biceps. That is a very good point.

It might, people might be a little more closed off. That's a really good point. That's true. No, I mean, I would just like to get rid of the belly and, you know, just feel better, have more energy and stuff like that. I will say, and I don't let it count for people on my show We've only cleaned up their stuff recently Because it's like, okay, but you've demonstrated for like a year that it's bad

But these last few weeks have been better My film guys in the back there Very fed goes to gym every day He's giving me a protein blueberry smoothie recipe That I have for lunch every single day And it goes well unless a guest brings desserts Which is better thing recently which is harming me Is it actually they bring desserts?

Yeah, cookies or donuts Because they're awesome Because they're like the best people in the world How do they know what to bring you? I think everyone likes donuts and cookies. Did you make it public that you want people to bring stuff? This is the first time that I think anyone would have ever heard that that's happened over and over. So people are recurring doing this without like...

It's happened recently a few times. One person did bring sprouts. Okay. That's good. That's good. Did you eat them? Yes, I was munching on them a lot. They were actually quite tasty.

Yeah, sprouts are good. Yeah, they were sunflower sprouts. Okay. That was very cool. So I have a good clean day. Have my blueberry smoothie. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, then also cookies. Donuts.

Very scary, very intimidating. Control yourself on that. Control yourself. Which I did. I made Brandon my film, our film editor, take them home. So I had like a nibble. I'll tell you, my weakness is seeing food go to waste. So if I see a whole tray of cookies and I know they're going to be thrown out, I feel

so bad about them being wasted that I'll want to eat them. Not because I'm hungry, but I don't want them to be thrown out. So for me, it's that. And so I will engage. and desserts because I just don't want it to go to waste. I will say on the aspect of my health that I think is rare for other people, this is not a brag, but just curiosity because I think you've talked about it. I'm like, oh, shit, there's another weird person out there.

I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. I don't smoke anything, and I do not drink at all. I've just never had the interest in any of those things, which I know is beneficial health-wise. Extremely. Extremely. I mean, alcohol is just toxic, basically. Yeah. That's good.

That's great. Yeah. For me, it just ruins my day the next day. And every now and then I'll have a drink. but it's just the next day I just counted out that's a done day and I feel like crap

and then the next day I'm like is it really worth it no there's been very few times where I look back at that drink and like yeah that drink was worth it if my friends pestering me enough

I'll have a singular sex on the beach because it tastes like candy I just don't like the taste of alcohol it's not even an alcohol thing I just hate the taste I don't like beers I don't like alcohol beverages

is like ah alcohol just straight alcohol is gross like a virgin drink will taste better than a you know alcohol like yeah I just want to pop that's my thing Copper water. Give it to me.

So there's a lot of sugar, though. So we could cut those out. I go diet, though. Okay, I'm a diet Coke. Okay, that's good. That's good. Yeah. Back on to the finances.

So we have these people, they come onto the show. You've noticed the pattern of people being irresponsible with their car purchases, as well as going out. Are there any other patterns? Because I want people that are watching this,

maybe that are slipping, to be able to acknowledge and think, like, hey, how are my finances doing and be cognizant about money? Yeah. And maybe consider these things that you've recognized

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German engineered for all. One thing that has shown up a lot that is in less people's control than the other categories, but I think people have a little more control over than they're willing to admit is cost of housing. So Austin's an expensive city for Texas, you know, compared to L.A. or New York, it's certainly not. But like a guest was on the other day. He was spending like close to $2,000 with barely any income on rent. And he was like, I'm going to have to move back home. And I'm like, dude, you can find places here.

They might not be the grandest of places, but you can find places here, like under $1,000 still, like the studio. It's like, that doesn't exist. So I pulled up Zillow real quick, showed him, I think it was like 32 complexes with the different units of under $1,000. So that exists. But, yes, I mean, for someone making it even $100,000 in a year in New York City or L.A., like housing is going to be a larger percentage than we would normally want them to see.

So that's a big one that definitely hurts people because it takes away a lot of their money from their investing goals and paying off goals. So sometimes it's in their control. sometimes it's not. And I think it's more people's control than they're willing to admit some of the time.

But I think it's a really unpopular opinion when you recommend people move in order to save money. Because they think, hey, look, I am deserving of living where I please because this is where I, it's my home. Something feels very like,

like it's a part of your identity where you live. So they place a lot of importance on it. I think a lot is also the distance to where they work. So someone could justify and say, well, my job is five minutes away and if I move,

then my commute turns into 40 minutes. We've had a few of those. And they're like, my gas will more than make up for it. Exactly. Which sometimes, I mean, all the prices are kind of high right now. Sometimes it can make up for it. What's the worst episode that you've done where you look back in this person's in the worst financial position?

Because there's been a few where you've said this is the worst finances I've ever seen as a title. Yeah. But what is actually the worst? It's someone that I haven't had an update from, and I'm really sad about that. She came, she's one of my first few episodes. And, you know, like I said, now in this whole year, everyone, and even most of the last year, honestly, has been from the audience.

So good relationships. They're very happy to do the show. When I was first doing the show and not a single episode was released, that we recorded four episodes and I put out a call in Austin for anyone to come on the show. I'd give them like 50 bucks, which is like all I had at the time to be on the show. There was someone with $250,000 in private student loan debts, a variable high interest rates. I can't imagine what those interest rates are like now because they were at 10% then.

They started at like $150,000. In only a few years, they went to $250,000. They're going to be a million dollars before she knows it. and she really doesn't utilize. It's for social work. Who gives these loans? Well, that's surprising to be that someone saw that and checks the box, say, yeah, we're going to give you the money on that.

I know, right. Personal responsibility is very important. I will say in this situation, she certainly got fucked with her dad. Your dad, she shouldn't have done it, but as an impressionable teenager, getting out of high school, her dad was like, sign the loan.

I'll pay for it. I'll pay for it. Her dad's ghosted her, essentially, and it's become, this has been a complete tear in the relationship. so they haven't, you know, seen each other or talked. Did he ghost because of the loan? I don't remember exactly.

There's too many conversations. That would be gnarly if he just couldn't make the payments. And that's an awkward conversation to have with your daughter. She wanted to go to an in-state school in California that was public and save a lot of money. He was like, go to Baylor. That's where I want you to go. Borrow as much as it take, I will pay. Baylor is a out-of-state private institution.

So she did get fucked in it. But because of that, and with a degree that doesn't make a degree, make as much money. That has to be one of the more daunting situations we've ever seen. And you can see in her finances that she's given up. What would you recommend for somebody like her? What would she do for bankruptcy? You can't, you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

That's why they're so terrible because they allow an 18-year-old kid to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, regardless of what they want to study. And there's no recourse. You can't discharge that in bankruptcy because you're getting an education. The education stays with you. So you just get screwed. Yeah. There's no way around it.

It's terrible. And the fact that people sign off on that, when they could buy a house with it, you know, and at least they could claim the house back. But no, that's why the student loans, there's no recourse on that. I think instead what would be interesting is if they give the education to you for free, but they get a percentage of what you make, you know, for life, let's just say. So if you want the public school that's $30,000, well, now you give 1% of your income. But if you want the private school that costs X amount, you give maybe a little more,

like up to a certain limit. So it's not, you know, billions of dollars necessarily. But I don't think you're like lighting the fire underneath students' butts, though, for them to like go out, get a job because, hey, I got to pay this off. Well, that's a thing too. Yeah. I didn't think this through because then you could just say, well, now I'm not going to make any money or make, you know, do stuff on the side.

Just don't report it. And other conversation that needs to happen, as a guy who has lots of music friends, I studied in school music. I loved my school music. They excelled at quite a few things like jazz and music therapy and stuff like that. You know, I love the experience. Not every single college in the United States needs to offer a music degree or an arts degree. These are industries that the small minority make it, right?

And that's okay. And I think anyone should pursue it with that expectation of knowing it's going to be hard, and they can totally do that. But when a college of 10,000 people in the middle of Iowa or whatever, is offering these degrees that have training that are lackluster compared to other institutions and are setting their students up for failure. It's irresponsible that institution to even offer that degree in the first place. But I get it because the college wants some money.

You got the professors. They're on payroll. They're getting tenure. You got the college. You got the all the executives. Administrators? Yeah, administrators that take up a massive percentage of payroll for colleges. So I think it's irresponsible for that every single institution in the United States,

regardless of them. and we have a billion of them needs to offer every degree, even if that education for that degree at that institution is not going to be as good as it could be somewhere else. How do we get that girl back in the podcast? I don't think she wants to. Again, she wasn't from the audience. I cut out a lot of things that she wanted me to cut out,

including even after the fact. Can you gift her something towards the student loans in exchange for coming on? I think I even gave her a big chunk of money after the fact because I was like, hey, you were one of the first people on the episode. I know you weren't thrilled with the, experience, which, by the way, we sent on a survey to all the past guests this year, and we got an average four out of five in terms of the experience.

The only thing that people don't like is that we rush a lot, they feel. But either way, she's one of the first guests. And because she didn't even know what the show was, I didn't even know what the show was. I think she was just, oh, this went in front of more people than I was expecting than any of us expected. So I don't think she wants to be in front of that. Fair enough. Fair enough.

Yeah. Rough situation, though. Yeah. I feel so bad for her. and I would, no, I'd love to help in any way whatsoever. Hopefully the budget I gave her, right? I know in those situations, some people, I will also say, just for context, because I've read it a few places that I was nicer in those earlier episodes

in her situation and stuff like that, and that I'm not me or anything like that when I get like intense and stuff like that. No, I'm like actually allowing my personality to come through now. When I was first getting started, I had no idea. what a YouTube video took. I was trying to level back, you know, don't want to put off things,

especially while I have another job. I don't want to come across as rude. So I was just, a lot more things were just tame and just chill, including her episode. But now I'm literally just me. I just try to be the most open,

honest person I can be in all times. Well, now people know what to expect. Yeah. And so if they're signing up, though, they know that you're probably going to yell at them. Yeah.

Well, it also depends on the people's situation. We had a dude, unfortunately experiencing homelessness on recently. I don't think the voice was raised once in that episode, and I gifted him what he needed to, like, his first two months of rent. I gifted him. I gifted him a refrigerator for his current situation,

so he didn't have to eat out all the time. And I gifted him, someone from the audience gifted him a drone. A drone, because he was making good money working for drunk companies, but his drone broke down, then he went homeless. And then also I offered a pay for his first four therapy sessions because he has some really critical depression. So I love being in the position to be able to help with that. So it depends on the episode.

But yes, there are lots of people like the model that you were talking about. She wasn't receptive to anything. So naturally, as me just being me, you know, I'm just very invested in it. And I hate when I care more about the situation than they do. But I also get equally as excited when they pay off their debt. Like, dude, I get so fucking hype. Like you have no idea. When people are making progress, dude, that,

emotion you see when I'm angry is equal on the other side of me being excited for them. Because the channel's only been around for a year and a half and debt takes a long time to pay off. We've seen less of that excitement. We will, though. You've got to do like the Dave Ramsey debt-free scream. Yeah. But like your version of that when they pay off like student loans or something like that. You know, when they do a six-month emergency funds, let's say, have them come back and like

take a photo or something like that. We tell them to give us updated all along the way. You know what you need awards. Little trophies to give you. Oh, that would be good. And if you're on the show and they hit certain milestones, let's just say paying off their student loans, six-month emergency, you send them a little trophy of some sort. I like that. I think that would be a nice of a lot.

As they make it further, the trophies get like a little bit bigger. Yeah. They hit a million dollar net worth. They get, you know, a big trophy. Yeah. That's sweet. No, that's actually really cool. No, that's good.

That's good. Well, we get updates all the time from people. And people are doing well. But again, a lot of these debt situations, if you watch the videos, they're like multi-year payoffs. So we won't see the end situation for a while. So this guy that was homeless for a little bit. Have you had any updates with him after giving him the money in the refrigerator and the drone? Hasn't updated us in a few weeks.

So we leave it up to them to reach out to us when they need help and when they want. But we tell them to don't, like, you're not going to ignore it. You're not going to annoy us. Reach out to us as much you can, pester us for questions. Let us help, everything like that. But we also don't want to pester them and everything like, are you doing? How are you doing?

Are you bad this week? Are you bad this week? So I know he had a lot of clinical stuff. So I definitely don't want to pester him. but I very much want to hear from him. I haven't paid for the therapy sessions yet because he hasn't done them. I'm offered to pay for him, but he needs to, like, you know, sign up to do it. You can only do so much, I feel.

And same, same for the rent. Like, I want him to rent or put down a security deposit, whatever it was. Like, I was going to cover a two-month rent, I think, or a security deposit plus one-month rent. He has to go take the action to get the place, though. And I'm fully willing and excited to do it when he does it. And what are the character traits and personality traits that you're seeing as a pattern amongst people that are financially irresponsible? Personality traits, I don't know. I feel like we see a wide range of that.

I think definitely just a clear, people are very ignorant to personal finances, just as I was, just as I'm sure we all were at some point before we became educated on things. And you end up in the situation before you become enlightened. But you don't think it's like an impulsive personality trait or, Hmm. It's actually a good question. Or maybe carelessness. I do try to get to the bottom of their situation. It's a little hard.

I'm like, why are you doing this? And not a lot of people can give good answers. And I try to dissect that. Remember, when people are coming in, though, we're often seeing a lot of the after effects of past decisions. So I can't see exactly what they're doing in that moment. What we can definitely see for people who are overspending instead of paying off debt, those kind of people, you can see that it's either lack of care or addictive personalities,

kind of like even my own with certain things. and stuff like that where they just feel like they can't stop eating out and excuses are being made. So I think some of that when it comes to people who are continuing their bad behavior when they're on the show. So what's the path to getting on track? What do you recommend usually for people? Step by step.

We lay out their debt. We figure out what the minimum monthly payments are. We add them up. Then we get what their budget is with their rent. Some of the stuff they can't control because they're already in it. Sure, we can maybe downgrade eventually. But okay, that is what it is. debt is this. I put them on a grocery budget that can be healthfully done, but is also limiting.

It just essentially involves weekly meal pre-prepping instead of like cooking fresh pre-prepared meals every day. It's going to be more meal prepping and then warming up. And then basically no fun, except for a few unique situations, no paid for fun, go have fun. Sometimes increasing income by getting a second job. So we create, once we create what a potential income could be, plus a potential budget, we'll then lay out the best way to get out of the debt. Sometimes that's a snowball method, by doing the smallest debt to the largest debt. Sometimes it's the avalanche method by having the largest interest rate to the smallest interest rate really depends on their situation and their mentality around it. If you can tell they're going to have a hard time making through it,

snowball makes sense from the emotional standpoint because they start seeing they're making progress. You pay off that small debt relatively easily, but all of a sudden you have a win, so you start paying off more. Avalanche, I like for people you can tell are a little more fired up discipline because Because mathematically avalanche method, you pay less over time. So we figure out the best method to do that. But first, we usually get them to save up a one-month emergency phone, whatever their budget was. We get one month.

Sometimes if they have kids, multiple kids, two months. Because if anything happens, we've also had people on the show who have followed the babysat. I love Dave Ramsey. We're going to collaborate with them. I've been invited on the show like twice. Yeah. I just travel anxiety. But the $1,000 thing, and I get his logic.

He's defended it a lot, especially recently. even though it hasn't been updated and he's explained why we've had people on the show especially earlier in the show who did the thousand dollars to get out of debt they started making progress on the debt then an emergency happened and there's basically no emergency that's less than a thousand dollars then they ended up in a worse situation than they were before they even saved up the thousand dollars so i'm like okay let's make sure if anything happens you can survive for a month will you scour for income sources or if you have a kid just to make up for extra risk because you're taking care of little ones okay let's have two months of emergency fund then we just

beat that debt down. And then from there, it depends on their age. So 50, 30, 20 is a good standard just for people to start a budget on 50% on needs, 30% on wants, 20% on investing. But if someone's just getting out of debt, getting a fully funded emergency fund, you got to get a fully funded emergency fund, obviously, first. Once you get out of debt, if someone's starting at 50 and they have zero dollars, they basically got to start investing 50% of their income. If they're going to try to retire mid-60s, you know, maybe even 70s. So it depends on the age. So whatever their budget allocation is going to be after that point,

depends where they aren't in retirement. Because what I really try to stress on the show, I just want people to be able to retire, whether they're spending their pile of money to zero by the time they die, or they're leaving something left over for someone else, passing on money. That's up to them in the avenue that they want to save in order to get there, how much they want to save in order to get that pile.

What I just really try to stress is that when parents are, choosing, specifically parents, are choosing fund spending over paying off debt and investing. They are putting that on their kids to be morally responsible to take care of their parent when they retire and have no money. That seems like a cultural thing, though. I do see some cultures where that's the norm. That's expected that the kids are going to take care of their elders in retirement. Which is okay.

I would personally have no issue with taking care of my parents. But I think it being in the choice of the kids would be better than it being put upon. on the kids. I agree. So if you have chosen to blow all your money, go and do a bunch of debt, you make it to 70, something happens, you can't work, you know, social security is going to be like at that point, then, okay, I have no money to survive. I don't think my, I don't think I'm going to let mom and dad die on the street. So, right. I mean, that's up to the parents and the kids, but it's important to make sure that the parents are aware that they are putting that pressure on the kids. Yes. Because a lot of them could just be living financially irresponsibly.

Yeah. And not really understanding that, hey, eventually down the line, this will be on your kids. Oh, again, there's lots of ignorance. And ignorance is okay that you just don't know. You don't know what you don't know. So that's why, you know, we try to tell them. Do you ever have people question whether or not you're qualified to give them advice? I've had interviews where people ask that or people get upset.

But then I'm very clear that we don't talk about different investment vehicles. That's usually what your license to talk about. Right. If you need a specific license to say, hey, if you make $100 a month, you shouldn't spend $120 on fast food, you know, honestly, fuck off. Like, I mean, that's pretty basic stuff. And I think that's very important for people to hear about. And, okay, even if people are upset that, sure, there's no CPA and I'm telling someone

they shouldn't spend more money than they make, I don't care that little hate that a couple people might give because we get thousands and thousands and thousands of people reaching out saying, yo in the comment section email social media whatever yo i've paid off my debt because of this channel and that is everything dude i don't even care right now i know right now i could uh back out of all my stocks my personal residence and get everything into the cash flowing type properties that i have up in michigan and i could generate ten thousand dollars ish a month i could do that and do this show for free because the biggest reward is the progress that people make it's just it's so hype. It's so hype when people turn their lives around. It's just crazy.

It's so exciting. Why not go for like the certified financial advisor license? I mean, at this point, I just don't feel like it's worth my time. Sure. I mean, it would be cool to talk people through investing and stuff like that. And I have my own opinions on investing. I do my own investing. Yeah. But I don't feel like it's worth my time. And also, I think where the average American is, it's more beneficial to help to people that are in the dire straights and sit down with someone to be like okay sure you have 43% of your investment portfolio in the s&p 500 but maybe let's do 45% or something like that i think it's going to be more beneficial to help someone learn how to budget and uh stop fucking around i agree i think that's like

the foundation of being good with finances is like budgeting and what i tell all of my friends that come to me because they know like i am somewhat in like the youtube finance industry like or somewhat related they would say oh jack how do i get good with money like what do you recommend I invest in. And I always just say like, you just have to be aware, conscious and intentional of money in general. If you want to learn how to be good with money, you have to just be conscious of money. What is money? What does money do for you? What do you do for money? Where is your money going? Be aware of your relationship with money. And that is like this strongest foundation that you can have to be to being financially free or secure. Yeah. And another thing, honestly, again, because I don't do this for

clout i hate like as i said at the beginning i honestly hate my social media presence i don't like being known it's weird i don't like it if people are like okay you know i've heard enough bad stories of people like i want to learn how to invest more money guys money guys are great i love them i'm friends with them they're coming down here watch them support them they're good i'm totally okay take a few weeks off my videos learning some stuff from them totally good i'm not doing this for cloud i'm doing it to help people so that's totally chill so i don't think i need to talk about investing because people like them exist, and they are so good at what they do,

and they're very educational. What's the back end of your business in terms of how many people you have working with you? Two full-time employees. One person that helps with thumbnails that cost $1,000 a month, $2,000 a month, then I pay someone very part-time

$1,000 a month to do some spreadsheet work, and then I pay both of my employees. If I'm doing better, they're doing better because a lot of it is the commission base and just revenue. They're both making six figures, and I want them to be making a shit ton of money eventually. So,

which is great, because I love rewarding. Dude, they're making my lives so much easier. They're helping me make money. I want them to make money. So, yeah,

they're both making six figures. I want to give out, like, a big yearly bonus. Don't be too excited. I don't know. I do want to. $100. Chris,

$100 bill. Because I, again, as we talked about at the beginning, the money that I'm all of a sudden starting making, I don't get it. It doesn't make sense. It's a number that's not real.

I don't need it all, so I want to make sure they're making money too. A videographer role and an editing role, I could get away with an awesome paying $50,000 a year. This dude makes well over six figures. Producer role. I could probably do something the same. How many inquiries do you get every day

of people who want to be on the show? Producer. 30 or 40 a day. And what do you look for in those 30 or 40 that make you want to pick them to be on camera? compiles them into especially and we make sure that they're diverse enough situations and situations that we can help the most because again a lot of them they're not like it'd be fun to be on camera some people want to do for club but some people are like dude i'm literally going to be homeless next

a month please help me give me anything and they want to get they want to get sat down they want some tough love and they want a budget made out in a plan so usually the people we can help the most is who we go for and are you worried about it eventually becoming too repetitive sure but again It's, we talked about the dream 15 million. Dream 15 million doesn't need to happen. As long as it's actually helping people and I'm able to pay the bills and I don't ever have to let someone go. Like I'm totally okay as long as it's helping people because that's the main goal in the end.

There is the extra stressor of having the payroll now. You know, again, paying for the rent, paying for the food, doing all the stuff. And I love that. And I love the team relationship that we have here. But if it gets repetitive, there's other shows I want to do. for fun. But as long as I'm helping people on the show, that's the ultimate reward, which sounds so corny.

So many people aren't going to believe that. Who the fuck says that? But I actually believe it. One thing that I've noticed is being friends with you, because I mean, we haven't really established this quite yet. But you and I, we talk. I feel like pretty regularly. Like, I'll give you a call.

You'll give me a call. We'll check in with each other. You'll send me a photo of you. Like, hey, man, do you prefer the beard or do you prefer without the beard, which I prefer with the beard? Yeah. You are extremely genuine. here. The thing that I've noticed is you, you're very blunt, you're very honest, your personality

on camera is exactly how you are off camera. And I meet so many people on a regular basis that appear on camera and their entertainers that are not entirely how they are in real life. But you, I can say with full confidence, you're extremely genuine, extremely sincere. And I really appreciate that about you. I really appreciate that. It's pretty shameless. Like honestly, like yeah, yeah, like talking about dating, talking about this, talking about that, like, you know what I mean? What's the point? Life is too short. Why not just be open? No, I agree with you.

It's just I respect that ability to, I don't know, I would say, kind of be careless towards other judgments. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I try. Again, it's when people assume I'm like something different or having negative intentions around the show. That gets to me. I think they're kind of evil people, but.

And the thing is when you say that you genuinely care about the financial well-being of the people that come on the show, I, without a doubt, believe it 100% wholeheartedly. Because I know for a fact, just based off of the way that you treat money, the way you talk about the income that you have, how I know your income has increased over time and how that's affected you, which is not at all, really, that it really is about the guests that come on your show and you really do just like want to help them. And we could so easily record an episode and say, okay, goodbye. We really try to be as much as they want.

It's up to them. Be a part of their lives. What do you think your financial weaknesses are? Fast food. again, we went over it and it was like... That's not a financial weakness. Because the implications on your finances are negligent. That's more of a health.

Okay, that's more of a health. Because it was 0.7% of my spending. Financial weakness. We talked about some indecisive things. I did upgrade in my living situation because I wanted a yard for the pups. I wanted more space to do more shows and do more things. I was feeling very tight in my condo.

Even though I like the location, I also wanted to be much closer to my friends who, you know, we all hang out. like almost every day. Very lucky, because not a lot of people who are that lucky in their 20s or 30s or 40s or their life.

But whatever. So that, maybe the impulse of decision to get upgrade. And for Austin, for what the house is in Austin, it's actually quite affordable, but the interest rates are rough.

The thing is, I mean, you still could have bought a house way bigger, way nicer, way more expensive, et cetera than this. So technically speaking,

you still kind of bought underneath what I would say the financially irresponsible, or even the average person would have done in your financial situation. Yeah. I went to the Burbs, $914,000, $20,000, down, 6.

whatever percent interest rate. But this exact house next to my condo and the neighborhood behind it would have gone for easily minimum $5 million. So I feel okay about it. It's tough for me as a real estate guy to look at the rents right now in the areas and you could rent almost a brand new construction

that they couldn't sell. Seven grand a month, no money down. And you have the freedom to pick up a move wherever you want to. Yeah. And you have that extra 20%, which is almost $200,000 to go to invest elsewhere

at a higher return. Put that in the Michigan properties that you're buying. No, you're right. So one of my personal flaws, lack of patience. So I couldn't find anything for that. Couldn't find anything for that within a week.

Couldn't find anything for that within two weeks? Okay, that's done. Search is done. Uh-uh. We're going to go get this house that I really liked. I went to visit a lot of houses, most of them, I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this thing,

it needs to be really good. Like, everything here is done top level. So I was really excited about it. Like, there were lots of nice. nice new constructions, but everything here is top level. One of my friends is thrillingly excited about the level five drywall, whatever the fuck that is every time he comes in. Oh, gosh.

I know. No, he's excited about it. I'm not. I don't care. Level five drywall is like, it's a finish on the drywall that makes it incredibly smooth. I don't, this is painted over. We repainted. So I don't,

you're not going to feel it here, but you're going to feel it on the other one. It's drywall that they finish. They'll sand it. They'll polish it. They'll sand it. They'll polish it. And they do that like five times. It's a level five finish.

You don't, it's like. Like, it's a high-end thing. Yeah, but it's like, would I pay more for that? No, I also don't care about it. Oh, gosh, no, mine, you see the spackled job on the side of there. You don't have level five drywall. No, it's a waste of money. I didn't have paid for it, though.

It's a complete, it's a complete waste of money. Everything. The premium, the builder will charge on it. It's not like the builders doing this out of the goodness of their heart. They know that they owe level five drywall. It's like how much they're charging for that. With the cost to build it and the cost to buy the property, they lost money on it. Well, I think a lot of sellers are going to be losing money.

money. That's what I think. Building right now. What I feel really bad is it was their first building and design. So it was kind of rough for that. That's the risk. That's the risk they take. No, you're right.

I don't really feel that better. You know, it's the risk they take. But it's, you know, I did a whole video recently that's posting first week of October about buying versus renting. And I went through in today's market. And I analyzed the average price based on the average income of a person versus the average rent. And I based off a $400,000 home.

The monthly payments all. in on that. And I calculated the opportunity cost, what the home is going to be worth. After like 10 years, everything, rents are still substantially cheaper over the lifetime of the average ownership of 13 years. Interesting. If you plan to live in the home for less than about 11.5 years, if you're in here for 13, 14 years and you sell, and now I am also assuming that you're selling and you're paying a 6% commission on closing costs. So that's factored in there. My realtor is very nice and usually gives me the 3%. Love you. Okay. Well, then you'll see. save the 3%. So maybe for you, it's nine years.

If you're going to be in this house for the next 10 years, fantastic decision, probably, based on these projections. If you're only going to be in here a few years and then, you know, I might sell it and the move somewhere else, chances are it would have been way cheaper to rent. You're totally right. It's the mobility. And right now what I feel like is you're in this upward trajectory and 10 years right, I think your life is going to look totally different.

It's going to be wildly different than it is today. And so I think even five years from now it could be wildly. different. It's projecting whether or not you're still going to be here at that point. Yeah. I regret the decision overall financially. With the house and where it is and being closer friends, I don't regret it lifewise. But I definitely, I do regret it financially. And it's maybe the first not completely, okay, it wasn't incredibly stupid mistake. Like I still have equity in the home, whatever. It's an overall investment. So it's not like I just did something aggressively stupid. But in terms of my financial decisions within the last five, seven years,

wasn't definitely lower, lower subpar. I always text Jack and I'm like, Jack, please help me stop being single and he's like, dude, you're just shut up you big fat, nerd. Come on. Every time.

Every time, he just bullies me. He just just hits the gym, get a six-pack. Why do you not want to be single? What's the problem in that? I think I joke about it more than it's actually reality. Like, I joke about so many things that so many people take so literally, which is okay, that's just my personality.

But, no, I mean, in general, it's like, okay, so what am I doing here? Okay, maybe I'm making a good amount money now. What's the point of it all if I'm not passing it on to someone, if I'm not sharing the life with someone? It's just like, what's the point of it? You're young though. You're in the 20s. Almost not. Yeah. It's still in 28. But what's the rush? Oh, I guess there's no rush. But also, I like the experience of dating. I like the connection. Yeah. I do enjoy it. What are you exactly looking for right now in a relationship?

Oh, all right. Shameless. Let's go. Let's do it. Definitely a long-term partner, but I have found myself doing more temporary things for some reason. Are you in those relationships, is that what you go into it looking for? Is something a little bit more short term? Or like, why do you end up, are you initially looking for long term and you end up settling for short term

because that's just the defaults kind of the easier path to go on? Maybe it's because it's the easier path, and there's also just like innate desires that I think just get away, then I'm just stupid. Or here's the thing. Is it you choosing the short term

or is it them choosing the short time? It's mean. and maybe sometimes them as well. I mean, I'm not going to put the blame on anyone else. The thing is, the unfortunate reality, at least what I think is the case, is that you have not found the perfect person yet. And once you do, you're not going to want a short-term relationship with them. You will.

I don't want a short-term relationship. I just think. But you're opting for it time and time and time again. I just think, yeah, it just tends to happen. It's just, I think maybe I have a lot of expectations. And then it's just, I honestly don't know. I can't pinpoint this. I can't pinpoint this.

I'm in the exact same situation. Interesting. The exact same situation. I want a long-term relationship. I cannot pinpoint why I don't want to go on second dates with the people I go on first dates with. I don't know why. And I think it's an expectation slash standard thing, but I really do not know. Jack seems to get discouraged easily, though.

Like there's little, like, you know, small things. And I'm like, yeah, he's not that big of a thing. I just don't want to put up with it. I don't want to put up with it. But not even putting up with it. Sometimes it's just like, Jack just won't text back for like a month. And then just like there's a random text. That's usually due to a lack of interest on my end.

If I don't text back for a month. You better not be ghosting. Don't ghost. That's so mean to people. Don't ghost, you got to be nice to people. Don't ghost. Don't ghost.

Jack goes me. So many texts I send Jack attacks. I don't know. Well, that's fine. You guys are fun. This is not a podcast about me, guys. Okay.

This is a podcast about me. People are human beings. I know. You're drawing assumptions here. He just says something. He made a sound like you ghost. Jump on it. Getting ghost is like the worst feeling.

he'll text back weeks later. Can I please? It'll be like mid-conversation. Why is he speaking on my- because? Why are we allowing this right now? I would rather hear any... Let me answer on Biaavidja.

Just talk to me. Speak to my representative. I'd rather hear any and every day. Sorry, you're an ugly motherfucker. I don't want to see you again. They just never get a text. I would rather hear that every single day. Is it my turn?

Oh. Yeah. Okay. To explain myself. I do not ghost per se. They do not text me two, three times in a row and I don't get back to them. I will always.

get back. A lot of the times what ends up happening, unfortunately, yes, this is my bad. I should be better about this is I'll say, hey, I'll text you a week from now. And I don't text them a week from now. That's what happens. But they also, if they are texting me, expecting a response, I will always get back to him. A hundred percent, without a doubt. Sometimes not if it's Graham. I will say that's the timeline. He didn't mention a timeline. He says I'll get back, but not win. Yes, but it's not, it's not a week. Like, it's not, it's not even more than, you know, two days. Like, it's like. There was one that went like a month. That was and he was and he was like, Graham, why is she not taking me?

And look at Graham. That was years ago. We don't judge for years ago. I tried to make that very kind of my show. We don't judge for years. I was like a bully in high school, man. We don't judge. Wait,

maybe not high school. Why were you a bully? Like middle school maybe. I don't know because that's a dick. Just because maybe insecurities and just whatever. So what would you do? I don't know. I think just like make fun of.

Take kids lunch money? No, that was never physical. So it's more like joke on someone else's expense, you know? Were they, like, were they laughing about the joke? Or was it more like, ah, you know, come on, man. Maybe it was more elementary school. I found better friends, you know, late middle school, high school and then growth.

And then I think I was always just like trying to be the class clown in high school and stuff like that. So I was still like a dumb ass that the teachers probably hated and stuff like that. But we don't judge you for what you did two years ago because we all go through personal growth. We learn. We can look back and learn. But we only judge you for what you do now. And you're ghosting Graham. That's very mean to avoid Graham.

I don't ghost Graham. I'm going to swipe through some of our text right now. I'll show you guys. I actually get back very quickly. I'll let you know. He never ghost me. Okay. He never goes to me.

I never goes to me. I think he likes me more. Some people he texts back fast. Me, I don't think I'm on that priority list. Okay. Well, anyways, to bring this conversation back to Earth. Caleb. You're looking for the girl of your dreams.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, what does this girl look like? What does she do? Talk as. I don't know. I don't. My friends say I have a high standard.

I probably do. I don't know. I can't describe a physical type. I feel like I'm in a wide variety of, Canada can I. Okay, yeah. It's just like if that person's the person, boom, boom. Physical is obviously very important to get into the get to know you phase,

at least for me. And then I like someone who's definitely ambitious, doesn't want to just, you know, just lay around all day. But then someone who's also maybe a little more introverted like I am. I'm not a, I like to hang out with my friends a lot, but I don't like to just go do shit. I'm not hit the clubs, hit the bar kind of guy. So someone wants to drag me to that stuff.

That's not going to work. I like some sport restaurants. I don't know. Sounds like a dating profile, doesn't it? I'm reading off. classic stuff like that. I think ambition's a very important. That sounds about right and I agree. I think it's hard to like pinpoint a specific like visual profile of someone you're interested in. However, it's just like, sounds super, super lame, super annoying, but it's like an energy. Like you show up to somebody, you talk to them and you're just like, you know what? I really like the way this person carries themselves. I really like how they talk, how excited they seem about this or that, the passion that I see in this. Like that's just attractive and you can't pinpoint what it is you find in them that is attractive, but they are just attractive to you. you know and that happens but on very very very rare occasions and that's kind of what i'm holding out for yeah yeah sure i mean i like to go on dates so i go on dates when's last day you went on

it was last week i don't remember what day it was fine fine oh yeah it was okay i think we just agreed that i just we agreed that friends with venice would probably be better for our living situation okay so was their physical attraction yeah sure sure well yeah yeah i'm being vague because i'm uncomfortable but go ahead do you know what to talk about this no no let's talk about it i'll talk about anything. Okay, so where did you go on the state? We just went to a place called the domain here. The domain. I was about to say Buda-Wrigger. Okay. Now, this is so we walked around. We got some Boba. What do you like in her? Well, again, this was friends with benefits, so we really didn't really get to know each other very much. So how do you agree to those terms? Open and honest. You're just like, hey. Is that like the initial message? No. Okay. So this was only kind of came up.

This was only discussed in person. Yeah, I don't remember because I don't even think I was the one who first brought it up. I think we were talking about what we're each looking for. Yeah. I think that's what they were. Oh, because they're leaving after a year. So you're like, you know what? I think the best.

I think they said they're only looking for or friends with benefits. And I was like, oh, sure. You're like, oh, they opened that dialogue. I think so. I think so. Got it. I think so. Which is sure.

But if you're looking for something long term and serious, why spend your time on that when you could be... I'm not spending time on it, really. It's just existing. Yeah, but you're putting energy into this that could be spent, you know, growing the business, spent looking elsewhere, getting the gym, honestly, I'm not spending much energy on it. I'll be honest.

I've seen her twice. But it could be mental energy. Twice since last week? Yeah. Since last week. Yeah. And how many times you go to the gym? Zero.

What? How many times you go to the gym, man? We're talking about healthy days. I want to see lifting weights. We should hit the gym tomorrow. tomorrow. Okay. All right.

Let's do it. I think long term, yes, I would like to find a partner. I would like to find a partner. That would be good. I was talking to a few people. They were long distance though,

or a person who is long distance, but it just didn't really. Why do you want to find a partner? I don't know. It seems to be what I'm missing. I just, I don't know, I've always kind of craved it

and then I've always failed at dating. But you've, but so it's something you're missing, but you feel like, how do you know it's that? How do you know it's funny? I guess I don't. So you're trying to find what that is.

part of you is missing. Not necessarily, but I feel like that's missing. What are you missing from that, specifically? The human connection, the partnership, you know,

kind of building life together and just a future and stuff like that. But I feel like you have that with your friends and people that work with you. I do, but I mean, you're building a future

with everyone in this room. You've seen the charts of like, uh, the people you spend time with, and it's like, it just, but, and then everyone's like significant other.

Because you have friends. That's because it's just, it's the older you get, the less you want to deal with bullshit. That's it. So the less people, people you see. You're more selective in the people you see. But okay, all of some of my friends can't do as much and I'm very blessed to have a great

friend group here. Then I'm just here. I'm just sitting here. I'm bored alone. I'm not very extroverted, but. Bortem isn't good though. I think you should fill the boredom with other hobbies and things that you're interested. Like the aquariums, I love the aquariums. I love the aquarium too, but it, uh, my wallet hates it. See, I think you'll find the best relationship as soon as you're content, being single, living your life. Like, that, that's the way it was for me. I was so happy, just doing my thing. Not a care in the world. No one to answer.

Nothing. And then I ended up getting a relationship of right afterwards. But I wasn't looking for a single thing. Guys, I'm not looking for anything right now. But I think you have to... I don't think you have to... No.

But I think when you get to that point where you're so comfortable and like self-assured in who you are that nothing phases you anymore, that's the point where you become really attractive to other people. It's just, hey, I'm perfectly single. happy with the way things are going.

I don't need a single thing in the world. Well, again, I'm very open, very honest. I really don't think many things phase me except for the one thing I told you guys. So just someone think, like if people think I'm like an evil person or something like that. That's the only thing, because this is not me and it's just like weird if other people think that.

But either way, other than that really nothing else gets to me. So I don't. Part of me wonders though people could sense that you're looking to fill something. So that when you're dating, I will say I move too quick. I move too quick. I could tell by we look through a few of your messages on your video and you can look through it.

Move too quickly in a sense of like go right for the date. Yeah. Immediately. I'm not going to text. Why are we texting? Because you have to build some sort of connection and rapport before meeting up in person. Let me connect with her in person. All of those texts are not building rapport in the beginning.

It's just exchanging pleasantries and super service. But when a girl has a hundred messages and all of them are, let's go on a date. Let's go on a date. How is she going to differentiate. I think that is atypical to ask for a date right out the gate. Well, also assuming on girls behalf of her. If you look through a woman's profile like that, she's going to have so many messages. How do you differentiate yourself from 50 other guys talking to her on the same day, trying to have the same conversations as you are?

You're the one asking for a date. Why should she pick you over everyone else? I'll tell you. My British impression. I didn't find it funny. I liked it. He found it funny. Yeah.

Jack's not the best. gauge on that. I'm going to say it, okay? It's true. How old are you, Graham? 33. How old are you? 24.

I think I would be the guest's best age, I guess. Yeah. By one year. I'm in between you guys. He's not true. I heard that women mature slightly faster than men. So the fact that if, you know,

someone's jack's age, they're going to be more mature. You know? I'm just saying. So maybe they're closer to my age, mentally. Okay. Well, I mean, you know,

I just don't like the bullshit. I just don't like the bullshit. bullshit. I just want to meet and get to know someone. I hate the bullshit. As you call exchanging plentments andries, I call it bullshit. I just want to meet and get to know someone. I don't get to know them, you know, you know. I don't like texts. So to me, it's like someone asking for a job interview. Be like, I'm not going to send you my resume. Just give me the interview. Interesting. You know? And you're like, who are you? No, just give me the interview. Trust me. I'm going to knock it out of the parts. Just give me the interview. Oh, you want to hear my Morgan

Freeman impression? Check this out. Just give me the interview. British Morgan Freeman. British. Oh, Morgan Freeman, isn't it? Wait, I'm Morgan Freeman. I can't do it.

I feel like that's better. You feel like that's better? I can't do it. All right. Okay. Dial it back in. Okay. So you got an interest in finance

from actually coming up or being brought up in a pretty, how do you say, like, not impoverished, but like not well off, not well-to-do-home at all.

Definitely born very, Born very low, middle class. Oops, baby, you know, teenagers type of thing, late teens. Dad just working at a grocery store. Mom just being like a clerk at like an eyeglass place. So like no money's coming in. So, I mean, I think that's just an other reason why I want to make sure I get to a point where there's good cash flow coming in because you can't rely on this thing,

especially a job that I don't like lots of aspects of it. And then just like as we went throughout the years, just finance struggles that they hate. for me very well. They're still making sure that I had, I felt like I was living in a middle class life. Like I was able to take trips. I got instruments, stuff like that, but it was all financed, like taking out second mortgages type things, stuff like that, all to make it feel like the kids were giving, getting that good life. And then even as we were getting closer to college, like foreclosure notices on the household and stuff like that. So really just seeing that, seeing parents struggle, it's not only the reason why I wanted to better my finances, but it's definitely one of the reasons

want to do this show because so many people are in that position, you know. How are your parents' finances today? Much better. Youngest brother, another oops baby, Levy Bresden. He is actually growing up that middle-class household that they pretended we were growing up. So my dad ended up starting a business, and it's taken off he's a third owner in it, of a fire-water restoration-type business, and fire and floods always happen. And that, he's, you know, serving the community.

He's been doing really well. My mom went back. I got a nursing degree. she's been very successful in her field and they're doing you know they've paid off so much bad debt and i've you know given them advice on what i think should be paid off as well i think they only have like their mortgage left i'm mistaken like a low interest like nothing together all this time yeah yeah that's really impressive and they're taking a well-deserved trip to australia which i'm so happy this is the first international trip i think i think maybe in mexico um so that's really cool but

definitely my situation growing up hidden you could start catching wind of it and then in hindsight that you can definitely tell was definitely lower middle class for a long time. But they're doing really well now. How do you think that affected your relationship with money or your interest towards finance? Scarcity mindset. Scarcy mindset. And do you think that you picked up on that from your parents? No, not necessarily because, again, they hid it quite well.

It was just more towards starting to understand what money even is in your teens. And then in hindsight, kind of understanding how things were that I understand. it, but just not wanting to be in that situation, not wanting to have a foreclose or notice type warning on this house ever, you know, not wanting to, if I ever have kids, I wanted them to be able to do whatever they want to do, you know, that's healthy and good, send them to college. Like college wasn't even, couldn't even come close to be paid for for me. Took out a bunch of student loans and they took out parent plus student loans.

So it's like, yeah, one of my dreams, dreams is to, I want to hit that $5 million mark, but I also want to pay off their remaining mortgage. That's a big dream of mine as well. Did you ever get evicted or you're talking about a foreclosure? We got very close. Warnings, very behind on payments. Second mortgages, well, maybe a third mortgage I don't even know. So, you know, always taking advantage of whatever little equity there is in that house

and just taking out credit cards. And this is credit cards was everything, credit cards, credit cards, credit cards. And seeing how that's impacted people. Big inspiration for why I want to help people as well that are in the same situations. Were they smart with their finances? though taking out those mortgage? I mean, they never effectively actually lost their housing. Oh, no. And I've talked to them about that recently. They knew nothing. Personal finances, they were not still going about. They could have been better off.

Oh, they probably could have been. You can leverage different resources, take out debt in different ways in a smart way if you know exactly what the implications of your actions will be. Yeah, incomes were certainly definitely limited for quite a while, but we could have strictly budgeted and done well, just like many people on the show. But, yeah, absolutely. But then if you budgeted like that, it would have been more apparent. to the children that they were struggling financially. Absolutely. Especially because eventually after I was five,

we moved from a more sketchy place to a wealthy school district, though we weren't wealthy. You know, we were in that district. If we were budgeting hard, they wanted me to live the lives of the neighbors, you know, the people that I went to school with,

who were able to take trips, who were able to participate in different activities and stuff. Do you think that that helped develop your character in the way that they maybe would have wanted? Like, did it actually improve your development? Maybe subconsciously. I think that's one point why I got interested in real estate in general is because I saw that as a cashful opportunity,

something that you can always have on the back. So when did you go to that school district, the nicer one? After kindergarten, so I didn't have very much time in the really sketchy area, to be honest. Is that when you became a bully? You moved in the school district. I think when I said, okay, when I said bully, I think that's just more broad than it was. I mean, I was with the wrong crew in elementary school, just bad influences. people who, I feel bad for saying this,

I got into a good friend group, they've continued falling back on their social media. They're not really doing anything right now. They're not living a very good life. But being mixed up with them for a while until I had a big falling out in middle school. So, you know, they do bad things to people. Not bad things to people.

Again, that makes it sound like we're stabbing people in the parking lot or something. It's like just like making fun of someone or something, you know? Or we're playing soccer and then you're like, and like someone falls over in the playground. Like, oh my goodness, that kind of stuff. Yeah. But just wasn't a good person, and that is not the type of person you want to continue and grow up in being.

Not that I'm close to perfect. But what made you make that change? When did you recognize that maybe that's not who you want to be? Well, I'm definitely very influenced by people I'm around, and I ended up getting into a better friend group. And they were good people. And, you know, associating with good people, and you're just kind of become a better person. I was still a class clown, just a bit wild. But it didn't take it out on other people specifically, you know,

bring others down to feel good or anything like that. So, yeah. But I mean, life is all about growth, right? So I'm, of course, I would take back that I was a bully, but I don't sit here and just like freak out about the fact that, oh my gosh, I can't believe if it was a bully. It happened, learned from it, hopefully use that experience if I ever have kids to help direct them through that situation.

My parents didn't know, by the way. I was so good at hiding things. So good hiding things. It's masterful. So it's a learning experience. 20 years ago, wasn't even close to perfect. I was better 15 years ago. And I was better than that 10 years ago.

And I was better than that five years ago. And I'm better than I was five years ago now. So just always striving to get better. It's very important. What would you change about yourself today? I can definitely get in trouble with my lack of filter and just complete honesty because people take things wrong. People can take advantage of it and trouble.

But also, I just want to be. me. Maybe some of the more impulsive things. We talked about that. Yeah, I think that would be a big one. Anxiety? Oh, so like literally change anything? Yeah, I would just get rid of my panic disorder. I'd be like, that's gone. That doesn't exist. I could be living so much. What's it like to have a panic disorder? Terrifying and very limiting. You're afraid of panic attacks in a strict phobia way where it's like you build your life around not having them. So wherever you found your safe place to be,

It's just like your life around that. And the extra things can, and that's another reason why this job just isn't the job for me is because it's so anxiety-inducing. And it triggers those panic attacks. And then you literally feel like you're dying. You can tell yourself you're not dying. It doesn't matter. Your brain thinks you're dying.

And then you dramatically fear that. Like you fear getting your hand cut off or something like that. You would avoid any situation in the world to not have your hand cut off. It's like the same fear of that. I'm avoiding anything and everything that could lead to a panic attack that I could get out of because it is the most miserable thing in the world. What does it feel like? You've never had a panic attack.

No. Oh, lucky you. Some people associated like a heart attack. Some people your brain just thinks you're dying. For me, my heart starts racing. I get very clammy, very sweaty. I breathe very fast. I feel like I'm going to pass out.

My brain is convinced it's dying and I feel incredibly depressed in the way where every once in a while, every once in a while, I don't want people to freak out about this, but every once in those extreme situations, suicidal thoughts can happen. But that's just because I feel like it's something that's never going to end, because it feels like it's just never ending, and you think that's like the easy way out. That's not something I've considered or want to do, but that's just like in the most extreme scary situation.

It's something that, unfortunately, veers its way. How long do they last? It's hard. You can get over it pretty quickly. I found good coping mechanisms to get over it, but I mean, I've had ones that have lasted like a few hours and those are miserable. But on average. Average? They feel, I don't know.

I don't time them. They feel like the last eternity. But maybe 15 minutes. I don't know. It could be longer. And what's the frequency of them? It depends, stress level and different things going on. Right now, I think with this job higher than before.

What are your coping mechanisms? Distracting myself, play some music, watch something, try to take a nap or go to sleep. Why do you think you have this? No idea. No idea. When did they start coming? I remember my first one taking a vacation in South Carolina, early teenager. It just happened.

Nothing triggered it. Happened. I thought I was dying. Didn't know what a panic attack was. And then unfortunately, learning what a panic attack was, I developed a phobia for panic attack. And have you ever spoken to a professionalism? No, I'm on Calexa. But I think that's more for general anxiety because my thing's more of a phobia.

I don't know if you can medicate a phobia. I think it's more mental health thing. I was in therapy for a while. I always advocate for therapy. I need to go back in therapy. When I moved to my last location, I was far away for my therapist. I was like, cancel. And I just need to get back on.

Yeah. It seemed like it was such a traumatic event when it happened the first time that you now fear that happening again of reliving that first time. And that YouTube job that I got turned down for, after the fourth day of supposed to meeting the person, he didn't show up the first three days. The fourth day, I had one of those three-hour panic attacks. I've had like twice in my life, maybe three times. and I just couldn't go.

I was like, I'm sick. And he was like, okay, this isn't going to work done. So it can definitely impact life in ways that suck. In hindsight, though, would you be here today, if not for calling in sick that time? No, maybe. No, no, probably not. No, I mean, that's great. But in the moment, wasn't great.

And then my anxiety was very bad for a few weeks. I was supposed to have friends come down for a bachelor party and stay with me a few weeks later. But my anxiety levels were so high at that point where I just needed to. space of my own. It's actually one reason I didn't let you guys stay with me. It's because I didn't want to have to worry about potentially being, getting too anxious and having a moment and just needing to be by myself. So I put you guys up in a hotel. I get that. Well, if you had a larger home, then the problem would be solved. Let's go get a four million dollars. If you, if you waited to buy something. Okay. You know, I'm just saying you could rent,

you could rent a house. It's a little bit of binger. I could just take a loss on this house and just go get a mega mansion. Do that. Yeah. Just build something from scratch. So it's not fun. It sucks. And there's a lot of people that deal with it. I wish there was a better way for us to treat it, but no one knows what causes it or else we'd be treating there, right? So therapy, coping mechanisms, learning how to get over that.

So I haven't come to Vegas. I mean, you extended that invitation forever ago now, at least in the lifespan of my YouTube channel. And I really want to go there. Those places I want to experience. I've never been to California. Never been to the West Coast. I've never been west of here.

Yeah. There's a lot of things I want to do, and that's going to require getting honest. But you're going to be going to see Dave Rand. So that's going to require you to get in playing. I've been invited to see Dave Ramsey. Don't tell me. To be on the show.

I haven't not done it. I haven't said no. I'm just trying to, I just don't know what to do. It's so hard. My plan is to, right now, the plan is to rent an RV, hire a driver. And then us, me and my team just play games in the back. How long is the drive going to be?

12 hours. I've done to drive to Michigan where my family has quite a few things. And how long of a flight is it? Like two hours? Three hours. Two hours. Something like that. There's no way you could drive 12.

Fly two. I mean, control when I'm on the ground. I'd be like, turn this bitch around. We're going home. But I feel like the ratios are off. I feel like it's got to be

longer than a 12-hour drive. In an RV, you're driving 65 the entire way. Okay, maybe it's a little longer because the RV. It's got to be like 13, 14, 14, without stopping. Yeah, but I'm playing Catan in the back.

For 14 hours? Sure. Katan's awesome. Ish. For that long, I don't know. I have a phobia falling as... I have a phobia of falling asleep in the car

because I think if I fall sleep in a car, the car's going to flip over. Will you drive? He has a driver. Yeah, I know, but like... Oh, you mean if someone else is driving? Oh, yeah, no, no. I'm not like me driving, falling asleep in the car.

I'm saying if someone else is driving, that's what I meant, driving and floating, no. I'm saying if someone else is driving the car, I'm in the back seat, I'm paranoid about falling asleep because I can't see, like, what's going on around me. And prepare, like, if I see a car flip in and I'm like, you know, I could tense up a little a little bit. See? You at least see it coming. That's a phobia.

I don't have it. But that's just me falling asleep. It's completely irrational. Makes no sense. And it's silly. And that's what I have with the other thing. So I wish I had a reason or an excuse or treatment. A lot of people, I mean, what they do is they just do it.

I just got to do it. I think you just got to do it. But doing it is the hard part. Do you think you'd feel better afterwards getting through that? Oh, that if you could get through that. A billion percent. I would still be anxious getting into the situation, but you do it once.

Of course. It gets the ball rolling. Last time I was on a plane, and the only time I was on a plane was a decade and a half ago. Yeah. You know what actually you could do that would make the experience a little better

is fly first class. I know. That's what everyone says too. Spend the extra money. Pamper yourself. First class. Get the big comfy seat to get someone kind of like

dedicated over you. Get to board first. Or maybe you don't want a board for it. Maybe you board last. You're on the plane. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So on the plane, less time. I think what I like is one of those rooms,

but they don't have those domestically. No, they don't. But if I could have that, I have my own space, so if I freak out and just, like, feel like I'm dying, I can just do that myself. And some L.A. show wants me to come on, some daytime, ABC, The Talk?

The Talk? The Talk wants you on? Yeah. Isn't that the one with, what's your name? I've never heard of the show. I'm thinking, Whoopi Goldberg. That's the View.

Oh, dude. The View wants you on. What? You have to say, I don't know what the talk is. I don't know what the talk is either, but they want me to do like a live off. Someone could be fun. I've never been to L.A. Yeah, I would take the opportunities.

Because you don't know if they're going to be around forever. And you don't want to be 20 years from now looking back. I wish I had done that, but I was too afraid to take the chance to do it. A billion percent. What's your biggest insecurity? Maybe the thickness. Really? I want to say I'm not knowingly insecure about many things.

My friends might be able to tell me I'm insecure about things that I'm not aware of. But maybe the thing. thickness, just because there's nothing else I can think of. Because she's thick. She lumps. And what about your insecurity of internal things? Is it mostly what we've discussed this far? Yeah, I guess if I had a partner, I'd be, you know, they would need to be, like,

aware of my anxiety issues, and I'd be nervous about the first time anything, anxiety would happen around someone. I'd be nervous. I was nervous about that with you guys today. Like, I was, like, nervous I wouldn't be able to sleep last night because I was excited. so then all of a sudden, you know, less sleep, you get more anxious, have panic attack, who knows. So, yeah, I guess that could be an insecurity. I think meditation.

It sounds like you overthink and overanalyze. I'm very much the same way. I think if you calm your mind or you find other things that you could focus on or the gym, for me has been a lifesaver. It's been amazing. Finding outlets like that relieve so much stress. Reading is great, too. I love audiobooks.

I feel unproductive when I'm physically reading for some reason. The problem with audiobooks is the fact that your brain can trail elsewhere, whereas if you're actually reading text on a page, you can't really be reading and understanding and, like, drawing information from there. I'm just convinced I'm wasting time. I know I'm not, but I'm convinced I'm wasting time when I'm reading. So what I do is, audiobooks or YouTube videos to X speed while I'm at the gym.

Yeah. Or on the treadmill. And I watch all my YouTube videos on the treadmill, or I make my phone calls on the treadmill. Yeah, or you call me because every time we talk, that's been, yep, Yeah.

Yeah. I make all my calls on the treadmill. And then when I look down at the calories, I'm like, oh, wow, I just burned 70 calories on the phone with you. Yeah, and then you didn't even convince me to rent. And it didn't work. Well, I wish it did. But imagine, imagine it. You could do something productive while burning calories at the same time. So it's like you're doubling your output.

I finally, when I was using my elliptical, maybe like three months ago for a good while, I got down to a pretty okay weight that I was chilling with. went up since then, but for the first time of my life, I got the runners high. Never knew what that was. And I thought it was always bullshit, but I was like, oh, shit, after like 10 minutes of hating this, all of a sudden I was like, ooh, you guys are this fun. Things that was just in the dry, I just wanted to keep going. Yeah.

That was fun. So I know I need to get back to that. I've allowed the move to be an excuse to go backwards. If I pull up my cardio, whatever the cardio level is, cardiovascular or whatever, you'll see when I moved in because it went, so yeah, that's something I need to get back to, for sure. And I need to start that. This conversation is hopefully a good motivator to do that.

You're also talking about potentially doing other shows in your channel. Yeah. What do you want to do? Nervous to say it. Why? Because I don't want anyone else to do them. No one's going to be able to do it like that. Fine.

I'll do the ones, I'll say the ones that people already know. I want to bring back a good version of dating money. We did test versions. We didn't know what we were doing, but that was perfect. I'm glad we did that because we learned what worked and what didn't work. And we have this whole grand idea around it that is like 10 times better. I want to do that. It would be fun.

It'll be funny. It'll be engaging. I want to bring back audit on the street where I audit random people on the street. I want to bring back dumb money where someone can email in a situation and like, what should I do around that? And then get random people's suggestions on that and then give my suggestion. So I want to bring back some of the classics on like a second channel. Doing a grocery shopping trip, you know, $300 a grocery budget.

Yeah. Or whatever that is, broken down on a weekly basis. So I guess we'll shop for a week. But there's a few on their secret, secret shows that we talked about earlier. I want to see you on a first date. That's what I want to see. I have the date sitting right where I'm sitting and you guys talk finance. Finance.

Yes. Yeah. I'm usually a little, sometimes I'm awkward on a first date. And sometimes I'm... Even better. And sometimes I'm like, like, I'm the guy. Like, you know. What does the guy look?

like to you. Like, when you are being the guy, how does that, how is that? Like, you're just smooth or like what is. Interesting. Yeah, smooth. Hitting every word, nailing it. Engaging that conversation. And what is the determinant of whether or not you are that guy?

I walk away feeling like the guy. Like, what determines? Yeah. You know. Whether or not you're the guy or not the guy. No idea. Walk away with it feeling good. No, but you walk away, but how do you go in?

Oh, how do I feel good? Like, how do I go in the guy? Yeah. Yeah. How do you go in the guy? Like what determines if today you're going to be the guy or not? Yeah, is it good sleep? Outfit on point?

Is it arbitrary? I don't really care about what I wear usually. Yeah, I guess it's pretty arbitrary. I don't know, conversations are nailed. Dude, sometimes I think you just wake up and you're like, today's going to be a good day. I'm on it today. That's how I deal.

I'm like, today is a good filming day. You know a clothing hack? Speaking on that, I know you do H&M and I was all H&M. So this is Express, which is a pretty, well, at least for me, it's an expensive place. Get a friend who works at a clothing place and get your self's 50% discount. Then it's basically H&M, but nicer. I prefer Zara.

Oh, okay. Still a little expensive, though. Yeah. I guess so, slightly. I just don't like spending money on clothes. I don't know. I feel like there's this thing. My entire outfit's free.

Yeah. He gets all of his clothes for free. Yeah. No, I guess I can't beat that with 50%. It's very expensive. Yeah. That's his favorite thing to say. Theory.

Really? I forget what this is. This is. Speaking to the thickness, I don't know if Graham's going to allow this, but Graham called himself fat earlier. I said it a little pudgy, I had a little stomach.

Oh, you said, that you mentioned some thickness. This is thickness. That is not something we need to worry about. I would like... Is that your biggest insecurity? I would say so. I don't like taking my shirt off

because I see pudge around my midsection, and I really don't like it. And I want, like, just... I want that beat. I want that... You're back into the boxing. I didn't even have that with the boxing.

Oh. No. And I dieted pretty strict on that. Part of me thinks it's a bit of an age thing, but I have to take it so seriously. Like I've been going to the gym every day. I've been eating relatively clean. And then I'm thinking it's probably my portions. Dude, that big three zero is scary.

Maybe not staying hydrated as much as a shred. You've passed that you're at that 33, but that big three zero is scary. But you see some people in their 40s and are like, I'm in my best shape of my life. And they were like just ripped and shredded. Dude, my parents are like great. I don't know what's going. on with them, but I feel like I'm like dying. Yeah.

So, I've lost track of this. What do you think is the meaning of life, Caleb Hamer? Meaning my life right now is helping people while having fun doing it. That's what I like doing. That's the meaning of my life right now. Yeah. Meaning of life? Happiness.

Isn't that what everyone says? I don't know. I'm a day-to-day kind of guy. I got goals, but I'm a day-to-day guy. I can get it through the day. Try not to get hit by car. And what do you want to say to all the haters? Haters.

What do you say to them? I actually have no idea. What the fuck would I say to haters? Boo you. Boo haters. All right. Is there anything else you want to discuss? Comments, concerns?

Anything for us? You can ask us questions. Are we going to eat dinner? Are we going to eat dinner? I can be down for dinner. I hope you guys have enjoyed this episode. I know it is a highly anticipated ice coffee hour episode. Everyone wants Caleb.

on. We're really excited to be doing this and hope you guys enjoyed. And let us know if you guys want a part two. Maybe, just maybe, in this part two, we can discuss Caleb's transformation. Okay? He's going to have a six-pack.

He's going to be ripped. Okay. You're going to have like a huge neck vein right here. And yeah, it's going to be sick. We're going to put your face on liver king. Yeah. You should see my jawline when I'm fit.

Dude, it's hot. It's gnarly. You do have a pretty gnarly jawline. I know. And this is surrounded by fat, too. But you're also kind of shaping your beard, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, do a little trim for the boys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You look good, man. All right, guys. Thank you so much for watching. Until next time.