The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The $100,000,000 NBA Players | From Rags To Riches

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

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Hey guys, so Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson are former NBA players with a combined $100 million in career earnings. And now they host the All This Smoke Podcast, which is one of the largest sports podcasts, and they've had guests like Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry, Kevin Hart, Shaq, and many more. In this episode, we talk about the overwhelming amount of money in the sports industry and how, unfortunately, a lot of it goes to waste. So if you're interested in episodes just like this, make sure to subscribe because we post a brand new video every single week. So first off, you guys may notice, we're using two different size mic stands here. Because these are the biggest guests we've ever had on the podcast.

The tallest. The tallest guests. We've ever had on the podcast. It's an honor. We have Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, former NBA players. According to Google, it says you guys have a combined earning of over $100 million. It must be lying. Is that true?

That's what Google says. Mind? A lot of money. Yeah, maybe. I didn't know it was that much. I saw 65 and 35. That's exactly what I saw. I thought someone was lying.

Yeah. I mean, that is absolutely incredible. And now you guys have a massive podcast, all the smoke. It's one of the biggest sports broadcasts out there right now. And it's an honor to have you guys here on the ice coffee hour. Thank you guys for coming.

So we got to talk a little bit about your backstory and how you got started in this, how you guys met, and a little bit about the business aspect of coming up in the, uh, uh, Jack and I met. Jack got traded from Indiana, Golden State,

where I was at the time. and during the 2006-2007 season, like in the January, February? Instantly, you know, we just bonded and made NBA history during that season with, you know, being the first number eight seed in the seven-game series

to ever beat the number one seed. The very next season, my mom died from cancer, like really fast within a month. And Jack was one of the one, one of the main guys that just, I took time away from the team and traveling back and forth to see my mom, but every single day I was there,

Jack brought me food, brought me weed, came and just sat and talked. Sometimes we can't say nothing. He was just there for me, and that went from teammates to a real-life brother. And fast forward, we both had 14-year careers and went into the media space, I messing around with Fox and ESPN, and we were getting a lot of positive feedback. We were at my house in the bay one time and kicking back, and I was just like, do a podcast. He's like, what's a podcast? I was like, I don't know about it.

what people are doing. Joe Rogan just made it after you know. I know we can drink and smoke and cuss. And we couldn't do that on our other platforms. So let's do it. And, you know, now we're about going on three years now and sports podcasts the year. And it's just been a great experience

and learning experience at the same time. Shout out, Danielle, his sister. My sister came out with the name. It's a good name. Great name. I'm curious, did you always think you would play basketball? I think you started with football, right? I was a football guy.

Yeah, I was die-hard football. I picked up basketball because I kept getting taller. But I knew somehow, some way, one of those two sports were going to be my profession. And, you know, growing up in a household and an environment of drugs, abuse, violence, I just knew that my path was always going to be different. So although I saw everything, you know, I was someone who started smoking. We did about 14, but that was about as deep as I went into it. I was just really locked in on sports.

And how about you, Stephen, always basketball? I think, yeah, it was always basketball. my city and my parents, my family, saw something in me that I didn't know I had at a young age. And they put a basketball in my hand. Obviously, my family. They knew I had something different, and they kept me around it. They kept me out of trouble. Like I said, they seen something in me that I didn't even know I had as young.

What age is at? How old are you? So it started at five for me. When I was five years old, I played in the game at the YMCA. The score was 44 to 40, and I had 42 hour points at five. So you always been a ball hug. Yeah, I always been a ball hug. And around that time, everybody was like, hold up, this kid really has something.

And from then on, my city treated me like I was an NBA prospect. Worked out that way. So there was like a time where you realized, okay, I could do this for a living. This is, you know, my most likely career. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because I fell in love with it. And I knew I was good at a young age and, you know, playing basketball. Once you fall in love with the game, you start to fall in love with the NBA and you start to have idols and you start to patting your game after players.

And I started that like any other kid that played basketball. Nobody knew it would get to the NBA. You know, I ended up going out of high school. But like I said, people around me, my high school coaches, my parents, they knew that I was on my way there, but I didn't see. What's it like getting a deal, getting your first, you know, bonus? How do you know where that money went? You guys know my first million?

I've seen it. That's a fun series. What was the first signing check? What's the process like? How do they find you? I'm going to get this first one. I'm going to eat too. My first, I signed with the Pena's Sons, they gave me a check for $25,000 cash.

This was in 97. Blew it all in one day. I blew it all in one day. Me and Mike Bibby, his sister and my little brother went to the mall and bought everything we could find. I think when I got back to the house, I probably had like maybe $5,000. Damn, they blew it all in the mall. That was my first check.

But I got one, when I signed my six-year deal with the Pacers, the first thing I did was bought my mom and my grandmother's house. Yeah, my first, you know, I was someone, a guy that came in on minimum deals. You know what I mean? So my deals were 300, 400, 500,000, you know, the first few years. And to be honest with you, at the end of every summer, I was broke. Because, you know, financial literacy is something that's talked about often now. But you think late 90s, early 2000s, it wasn't talked about.

You know, we talked about houses, cars, jewelry, women, everything but, you know, how to save what we're all working for. So with no background, I came from food, stamps, and drugs. So I didn't really have any kind of representation that showed me, you know, okay, we'll put this way and save this and do this invest this so like jack said when it came in and went out even faster so it took me about maybe maybe going into year four or five maybe to really start understanding okay i'm going to get this amount and put this aside um i never really made any no huge you know i got my mom and dad cars i never really made i got myself a house but yeah so my first i really didn't go cry i wasn't a jewelry guy um you know like i said i bought a house by my mom and dad some cars

and that was kind of understanding like I have money, but I don't have a ton of money. You know what I mean? So that's kind of, if we can space this out. And when did the money really start rolling in from the pro basketball careers? Those first couple of years, I won a championship with the Spurs in 03. I was expecting to get paid after that year, and I didn't. They paid somebody else.

So I had to go to the Atlanta Hawks for the minimum and play again just to prove myself to get paid. And I got paid that following year in Indiana. But it was a blessing. He said it took me six by six years in my career to understand how to even think about generational wealth. Like when we was going up, that word never even came around. Nobody in my family ever thought about saying generational wealth, right? So it took, be being around people and having financial advisors to six, seven years in my career, to start thinking about saving for a rainy day.

Yeah, and I think my light turned on when I started having kids. So I came in the league at like 21. I had twins at 28, so probably seven, eight years in. And it's where I realized, okay, you know, there's got to be a future here. Although I hope my kids are, you know, great at whatever they do and they get scholarships just in case. You know, so it started being less about me and more about obviously my kids after that. And that's what kind of turned the light on for me. So when you were playing, what was the schedule like day to day?

Like how much training were you putting in? How much were you putting into like diet, exercise? It's different. And all that, it's different for everybody. And again, when we first came in the game, there wasn't that kind of talk. Like I said, it's regular now. You know what I mean? Like, during the summertime, we play basketball and smoke weed.

Like, that was really how every, I'd say, majority of the NBA was. And not till, you know, I was lucky enough to play until 2017. And, you know, to me, it probably started changing around 12 or 13 where diet was important. And, you know, all these other nuances of the game started coming in to kind of preserve your career. But like I said, not that we're old school, but almost like, you know, kind of the old school was, far as it was basketball on the weed for us. That was a, it wasn't weight training. It wasn't training all the time.

It was just, it just wasn't what it was at the time. And so it's so far advanced now where I have kids that are, you know, 13 and they're training, you know, three to four times a week now. And that was really more than I was training when I first got in the NBA. And how important do you think all those tangential exercises, practices make you at basketball?

How much does that improve your game? Is it extremely important? It works. I mean, you know, anything you put a hard work in until you're going to get something out of it. And especially with basketball, I mean, that's why Kobe was in the time. That's why LeBron's so great. I'm going to spend a million dollars on his body a year. That's to be

great. A million dollars on his body? That's a bargain, man. What does that even mean? Just maintenance. He has... The right fools, the right trainers, you know, all you around, all you're not just eating right during the season. I'm sure you get like massages, chiropractors. Everybody right on hand.

You know, he's going into year 20 and he's been great his entire career. You know, we've seen a lot of great players play for a long time. Have we ever seen someone play at the level that LeBron has been able to play for so long? And obviously that's to what he does off the court in his upkeep. So, I mean, I think it's very beneficial, obviously. Again, it wasn't something that we were major into really toward the end of my career. But, you know, as like I said, being a father of twin boys who are teenagers now and I'm coaching them, I can, like, I didn't work out for the NBA until I got to the NBA. That sounds crazy, but I just didn't. Like, now my kids are training and I can

see the drastic improvement week by week, month by month, year by year. I'm just like, man, I wish I would have had this when I was younger because I didn't, yeah, I didn't have that and I still made the league and played 14 years. I couldn't imagine if this was something like my parents put me here and I knew what I was going to do when I had a regiment and all this kind of shit. It would have been a whole other play, you know, experience for me, I think. So at what point in your guys' career could you call yourself like an actual liquid millionaire?

Like I said, like a year after I signed my big deal, around seven years when I actually went through that first year of that season and were able to see being dollars in my bank account saved. That was the first time I ever saved a million dollars. Once I was able to put that away and knew I didn't have to touch it and I still had checks and stuff coming in,

I was able to say that. It don't mean shit. What was that like for you to see, though? It's a gift and a curse because you feel good, but then you got people doing this now. Oh, no. You know what I'm saying? And that's always the sad part

because there's a lot of people that feel they're entitled now. Those same people, that was telling you, you go ahead and you do this, you know what I'm saying? But we didn't make it off told your souls and keep going. Like the Russell said, we made it off hard work and just meant for us to be here. But, you know, that's the sad part about it, you know, don't have people feel like they're entitled to your money. You got to, you know, you take care of a village, you know,

if you're the one that's fortunate enough to make it, and the hardest thing to do is, you know, being able to tell people no, really the hardest thing to do is being able to tell family no. That's tough, you know what I mean? I can tell. I have friends that I've helped. and they're all appreciative, but I never had a problem, be like, okay, but obviously when you have to tell your family, no, that's a different level.

And I think all people coming into money, not just athletes, have to understand that. Because, again, everyone feels like they're entitled to, you know, if they've been around the whole time, they feel like they're entitled. So being able to tell people know is big. But same thing, six, seven years into the game and being able to save it and see it, you know, it was important. But again, I still didn't have a plan with it. You know what I mean?

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ice coffee at checkout. Thank you so much, Henson. and back to the podcast. How often does that come up that family or close friends ask for money? Man, it's been happening since I was a late 10. Four times since I've been here. You know, I'm actually kind of short on some cash.

Is it like directly asking? Like, hey, man, I'm really struggling to make rent this month. Can I please just have some money? It might be a lot. It might be a told. Everyone has their own angles. Some people go right to it. Text you.

Like, hey, can I have some money? Some people ask how your day is going first. Some people call you Thursday and ask you, and just to know because they go ask you Monday. Yeah, they'll set you up. So again, everyone has their methods and rhyme and reason and asking. And, you know, some people you say yes to, some people, I just, you know, I ain't got it. Even if I do have it because I just don't feel like giving it to you. So you're saying they'll try to buddy up to you ahead of time and then. Yeah, they act like a week later. Think like, oh, by the way, man. They plant the seed last week to ask us this week. And then it's a different

situation where you grow up around a lot of guys that, you know, that didn't make it. and didn't reach their potential. So the first thing they're going to say is, oh, man, you changed. Yeah, I did. Honestly, I was broke with you. I ain't broke no more. I worked hard and got myself some money

and put my family in different positions. And they try to use that against you as like a guilt trip. Yeah, like a guilt trip. Like, you changed. You're right. I did change. I worked hard and I changed to get myself out a better position. But that's stuff you have to deal with

in the areas we come from. You have to grow some tough skin. That's everybody going to feel like they're entitled to what you work for. Now, this may be a little nosy, but is there, like, a specific example that you guys, like, think of when you think of people asking for money?

Maybe it was, like, your assistant coaches, like brother-in-law or something like that. I'm ready for that one. Say one. Say one. I want to hear it. I had a church. I was a part of term Muslim. I was a Christian,

and my grandmother, grandfather, basically ran a church my whole life. So I grew up in the church. And as they got older, they couldn't run a church. So they brought in another pastor from outside to run our church. Well, he ended up stealing money,

and up kicking my grandmother, grandfather, the church where the church was in debt, all kind of stuff. When I first made it, made it, this guy told my mom, I had a vision. I want you, I want you and Stevie, they call me Stevie. I want you and Stevie to meet me over here at this store, at the abandoned store. I had a vision.

I want to tell you about my vision. You fell for it, too. No, my mom did. Oh, no. I was at Roy Dee House rolling up. She was like, come over here and, actually, I was something. She was like, come over here.

Do what? Yeah. Well, come back to that. I want you to come to a little of me. We're going to see what Reverend Washington want. We get to the place, he tells my mom, he had a vision that God told him for me to give him a million dollars to turn this broken down Safeway grocery store into a church. What kind of bullshit was that?

What did I didn't give you no vision for me to give you a million of my hard-earned money for you to build a church that I ain't going to never go to. But it worked. It did not work. Oh, okay. No, he didn't get a dime. My mama cursed him out, all that. I haven't talked to him since.

Why did she curse him out? What happened there? Because she brought you to him, right? Right. But she didn't think it was that. Oh. She didn't think he was doing, going that far, we're asking for a million dollars.

Okay, 15, 20, help the community, something like that. A million? Lost your rabbit. That's my own. Oh, my gosh. That's not a small ass. We glanced over the selling crack parts. What?

It's something crazy. You're not coming from your mouth. What? Yes, sir. It's not. It's a bit. It's not. You know what I mean?

I'm trying to loosen up a little bit. No, it's good. We're the group to loosen up with. I was around it. You know what I mean? I found my guy, John Johnson, rest of peace, he used to take care of me. So there's a lot of things I used to do for him involving that to make money. You know what I mean?

And I was no different from everybody else in my neighborhood. Everybody did that. So I was just blessed to have basketball to get away from it. For sure. Yeah, and that's the biggest blessing. What age was that at about? Probably from 14. 18, 19.

14? Yeah. How much were you making doing that? It depends. I wasn't the actual source. I was doing different things. So I can... $300, $200.

That was a lot of money. I mean... That was 14, 15 years old, $200 go a long way. I can get an ounce of wheat for $50. That's going to last the rest of the week. And buy some pizza. Buy some shoes. And I go buy some shoes.

Yeah. And I was getting $2,300, like, almost every day. I was helping my mom with groceries. My mom worked from 6 in the morning to 6 at night. So I didn't. never seen her. He was at school when she was at, you know, when she was home sleeping. We come on from school, she's going to work.

So I never seen my mom. Did I ever scare you? Did you ever almost get caught? You don't think about being scared. You think you're surviving. That's just the way of life. That's just the way of life. It's in a bubble, that little bubble where that's just normal.

Yeah. I get that. Now, you mentioned earlier about the people who don't live up to their full potential and don't make it. Have you noticed anything within them that maybe they don't have a certain quality or whether it was persistence or anything that got in the way that you feel It's a lot of them on social media right now And I think the thing is with them is that

They instead of working and putting the work in, they want to say why him and not me You know what I mean? And it's a whole bunch of people saying that But they don't know what you went through to get where you at For sure. Right? So that's the biggest thing.

People are like, why him and not me? Why he made it? We did the same things. Well, you don't know what I went through to get here. Right? And that's just the biggest thing. Everybody, like I said, feel entitlement. It's entitlement.

And it takes a lot of luck. A lot of luck. A lot of guys coming up that were better just as good and just, you know, made a wrong turn along the path, you know, and that's why, you know, I think my family and friends where, you know, I had friends die from overdoses and didn't shot at and all kinds of things. But like I said, although I was amongst that and in that, you know, I was able to stay on that path, knowing that, you know, what my ultimate goal was in and, you know, what the people around me wanted for me too. So, you know, along with what he said, it just takes it,

takes a lot of luck, man, you know, like, there's only been 5,000 NBA players in the history of the game. 5,000. What, 400 jobs? 300 some jobs a year. Yeah, you would think more. Yeah, 400 jobs. I would have thought it would be like 30,000. Oh, wow.

There's only like 400 jobs each season, you know what I mean? And so, you know, the turnover, you know, you're probably bringing in 100, 120 new guys every season and losing, you know, losing that many as well. So it's just a lot of luck goes with it. You know, the average career is two or three years, you know what I mean? So to get past that and play double-digit years and be able to win, it was, you know, it was obviously a lot of God, a lot of hard, work but a lot of luck. Best athletes are in prison. I'm just keeping the real.

No, let's hear it. The best basketball players, the best football players are in prison. So if you talk to any athlete from NFL to baseball to basketball, they know somebody who was the coldest athlete they've ever seen growing up in my line that's in jail right now. Any athlete, they're going to be like, yeah, I got a guy, man, who I grew up with. He in jail right now, but I'm telling you, he's supposed to be in the league. And every guy going to say that. And we all grew up with guys like that that made one bad decision.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And ended them in jail the rest of their life. Gosh. How does that mindset affect you today, having that sort of, you know, growing up in that sort of environment? Does that stick with you? Makes you humble.

Yeah. I'm not going back. I'm not making no mistakes. I'm where we at right now being able to be in this space with Showtime and Madness podcast. Like, we would be morons to play our stuff off this spot. You know what I mean? And we talk about it all the time.

We're not Hall of Famers, right? we are the guys that, you are your favorites player, favorite player, right? And we are guys that did the dirty work in the game. We're NBA champions,

but we're not Hall of Famous. Normally when you, when you retire, Hall of Famous and All-Stars, guys that are on the commercials get the jobs and the stuff that we are doing right now. You know what I mean?

But the roles have reversed because we are more reachable and touchable than those actual stars. Like, we are the guys that hang out at the arenas and talk to everybody and sign all our autographs.

So we're doing that, it's paying us back. You know, we're in this position now for a reason because we always treated people with respect and we treated everybody how we wanted to be treated. So that's how it works for us, man. I mean, I just think obviously, you know, understanding where you're coming from is always important. But the goal is to make it out and continue to elevate.

And, you know, that's what we've been able to do, you know, get the odds are, the odds were stacked against us. And we were able to get out and have a, you know, a long career. And then, you know, for us to be able to make the splash we've made post career, in several different spaces, it's been dope, you know what I mean? But again, to always understand where you came from, unlike Jackson,

had not wanted to go back. Yeah. Now, that's the goal is, you know, obviously if we're going to go back, you're going to help, but you're not going back to live on the level you came from. Yeah. And where do you learn how to get the skills

in terms of managing your money, investing it, making sure you're spending an appropriate amount? The experience was the best teacher. Right. I mean, being broken in summertime, time, you know, not having, seeing my family not have when I know I'm making money, all those situations.

Experience is the best teacher, and I had to go through it to understand how to save, to want to save, you know, to be able to be a crutch from my family. Like, seeing them not have, that made me focus on be able to be the breadwin and be the backbone of my family. So knowing that what we come from, it's imperative that I be the best protecting provider that I can be. And it starts with me making better. And, you know, just for, you know, like, again, getting coming from, you know,

food stamps and not really having no money, actually having money. Even if you have a situation in place, financial advisor, agent, everything, you never had nothing. There's nothing no one's going to be able to tell me to say, I can't spend my money. You know what I mean? So until you get to a point where you understand it's important to save and you really want to save.

And I think that's what happens with a lot of athletes is, you know, a lot of people have the framework and, in place. but it's just like man we never had shit and like jack said my family needs this I want this I work my hard you know I want to reward myself for this so it's just like until you get it in your mind that okay there's a reason for me it was kids there's a reason I need to start saving or okay I'm old enough now I want to start saving um you know hopefully that's when the light comes on and then that's when you kind of start after understanding and pull back and maybe change habits that you've been accustomed to for a long time but just understanding this is a marathon not a sprint I mean and

I think when I first got money it was a sprint I said that shit you know went out faster than it came in. So just being older and, you know, you get wiser with age. And I think that's when it kind of kicks in for people. It's interesting that the switch flipped for both of you guys with responsibility to other people, like financial responsibility to your kids or to your family. That was the main driving factor for you guys be like,

okay, got to start saving because I got to provide and protect. And I find that really interesting that it wasn't necessarily for yourself. You know what I mean? You're like, you know, you may realize in the summer, like you said, you have no money and you're like, oh my gosh, like, you know, I can't go to the fancy restaurant with all my, my teammates because I don't want to buy it or something, but it wasn't that.

It was just a responsibility to other people. Yeah, well, I mean, I just always feel a sense of responsibility when you come from nothing, you know what I mean? Because there are, although there's a lot of clingers, there are a lot of people that really helped you get to where you're getting to. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, okay, well, damn, you know, he trained me all those years for free or, you know, my mom and dad did so-and-so, or this guy did, you know what I mean?

So you always have those kind of situations. So we're always going to feel not indebted, but just like, okay, you know, I got it. You're going to have it too type way. So again, until you kind of just figure out what that balance is, if you're able to do it for a long time, that's great. But if you have to scale back, those are the tough conversations you have to have with people understanding, okay, you know, the money's not coming in the way it used to be coming in. So I'm going to have to scale back. That means, you know, your lifestyle is going to have to scale back.

So it's a lot. And that's a lot of, again, a lot of athletes or musicians or, you know, people have to deal with that. And, you know, everyone deals with a different. There's a segment I remember on this, this thing on YouTube. I forget what channel it is. but it's like the best and worst purchases that people make. It would be kind of fun if you guys recollected on the best purchase maybe. Every piece of jewelry I bought is the worst purchase I've ever.

What about now? What about what you're wearing? The worst. I still buy it, but it's the worst person I've ever. It's the worst person I've ever had. I mean, I'm not the guy.

I don't have 10 cars. I got two cars. Can you see what cars you have? I have a range over and a Mercedes. And my wife has a range over. We're not into cars and we don't have houses everywhere. those every every now and then i i'm myself a piece of jury which i you know that's that's my thing but the dumbest thing to do if anybody listening it's not really uh obviously house you know to me

i'm not really out bad purchase you know so no i'm saying he started he's doing with the best he started and then he's gone but then you can do the worst um yeah i mean house and again just the stability you know when you have to bounce around and move and live with family and all that kind of shit live with friends like a house is important so obviously that's you know that that that That's when I was able to buy my first house, I was like, okay, dope. Worst, I wouldn't say it was worse purchase, because again, I'm not someone that's crazy with buying dumb shit. It was just always buying everything for everybody. You know, when we're going to dinner, I'm always paying for.

If we're going on vacation, I'm paying for it. So I just think just always feeling like, again, like I said, early obligated to take care of people because they don't have it. I think I waste a lot of money doing that. I'm really curious. Are finances and the payments getting better for athletes over time? Are they getting worse? Do you think you maybe had a better deal back then than new athletes would have now? Money is crazier.

Yeah, money is crazier than it's ever been. You know, these new TV deals, the deals are crazy now, but deals are going to get even crazier. So, I mean, obviously, and that kind of just comes with, you know, as the game continues to evolve. You know, the greats before us helped us get to a certain level. And then, you know, Michael and Larry and Magic and guys took it to another level. And then the next wave comes, Shaq and Kobe and these guys take it to another level and the bronze and everyone. So it continues just to rise. So the game continue.

You know, you're going to have guys making $50 or $60 million a year playing basketball. You know what I mean? So that's why I'm glad I got, you know, I got three more boys. I got three chances to hit the lottery. I got three chances. So it's just, again, it just kind of comes, you know, with the evolution of the game. So, you know, although we made good money, you know, there's guys that are making more money in one season than we made in our careers. Yeah.

You know, so the game has evolved. I was just going to ask for a contract. I'm a little curious. There's usually a signing bonus, right? And then from there on... That's football. No signing bonuses. Our contract is to fully guarantee once we sign.

Every dollar's guarantee. When you hear signing bonuses, that's normally football because their contracts aren't guaranteed behind that, besides that money they get. So you'll see a huge signing bonus. You'll see a big deal. First of all, every deal you see for a professional athlete that you could probably cut it in half. Because of Texas is off. Oh, yeah.

And then agents and lawyers. And the bunch of... So cut it in half. And then after that is where you kind of, you know, see what else is going on with your money. But yeah, it's not, it's not necessarily the level that everyone may think it's at. But again, it's still good money. All guaranteed. Every player in the NBA show, even if they come in on a 10-day contract, they guarantee for those 10-day.

And even if they get injured, if something happens, they get into a fight that gets suspended. My whole thing is, you know, I signed a three-year deal. and I ended up winning a championship the first year of my three-year deal the first year of my three-year deal I won a championship and ended up retiring and I still got paid for the next two years I wasn't even playing and I was being paid

because that's the one great thing about the NBA is the money is guaranteed What is it just like a massive biweekly check? Every two weeks, twice a month first in the 15th That's pretty But you got guys like Kobe that was making 30

million a year. He was getting 15. One check at the beginning, one check at the end of the season. Really? So he was just accepting one check of $15 million. That's crazy. Imagine that. A check of 15. Like, I feel like I would be like putting it into the machine in my hand would just be shaking. Crazy. And are there institutions or programs within the NBA to ensure that now people aren't going

broke? Because it's a thing. I mean, everyone knows it's a thing. I mean, again, there's, I mean, there's, again, there's, there's, again, there's there's things that are in place to make sure guys don't. And I think, again, this is new. So I probably say, like, the talk of financial literacy and really being cool is probably started in the professional ranks. Probably started around 2014, 15, 16 in that space where a locker room, they're talking about, you know, what you're investing in, or have you seen this or have you seen that?

And that never used to be the talk in the locker room. So, you know, this is, it's newer. And there's more money now. So although guys are, you know, blowing money fast, I just think there's money to come. And then there's more responsibility around teaching guys how to save your money and investing your money. And it's a conversation now. So I don't expect to see this new generation of whether it be entrepreneurs, athletes, entertainers, necessarily having the same struggles as, you know, people before did because, again, the conversation, there was never conversation.

You guys have a poll podcast on financial literacy pretty much. You know what I mean? This is new. You know what I mean? And so the fact that it's cool and okay to listen to and okay to follow and you have great people who have experience teaching you the game, it's less likely that you're going to fuck up. But some people still do. What do you think of college athletes getting paid? Right.

But I also think there needs to be something in place for the educational side of it. You know what I mean? Again, most likely they're coming from nothing. I mean, these are scholar athletes that are signing these nice NIL deals. But again, if guys in the NBA are going, you know, crazy with money, imagine, you know, you're 17 in college or 18 in college and you're getting, you know, $50, $200, $250,000. You know, so I just think there has to be some kind of education behind it and understanding and, you know, almost like a safe haven, you know, where kids can go to kind of learn

and invest and start making their money work for them because they're getting, you know, obviously a leg up on people in the past because we didn't get paid until you actually make it and only 1% of people make it. Why do you think it's only recently that financial education is taking such a priority? The Internet. Yeah? The Internet's more popular now. So there's probably always been people probably talking about it, but it just wasn't a big deal.

You know, now, but it's out there and you can see it on social media platforms. And again, it's just a cooler conversation. You know, saving money is cool now. Investing is cool now. It was, like I said, that was never anything talked about when we came in the game in the late 90s and early 2000s. I feel like it's an itch that everyone has. You always want to know how much someone's making, how much money they have. It's just like something that's just so fascinating to everybody.

But for some reason, it was just taboo for such a long time. I just saw a thing today on Instagram as we were driving over here, like the top earning athletes. And LeBron was number one. And I think he's making like 43 million from basketball and like 80 million in endorsements. You know what I mean? In one year, you know what I mean? So it's just like it's out there and guys are doing it. And I love to see it because that means, you know, it's giving people who are coming up the aspirational.

Well, shit, if he can get it, I can get it. So I think it's cool. Yeah, I think endorsements and investments are starting to make up a lot more money. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just so fascinating to know that people could be making so much money. Like you said, like it just still blows my mind, but in the summer, they have no money. You guys, like you think, like I said, if you see a contract or he's making this much a year,

you cut it, you know, we're getting at least 45% is taken after taxes, fees, all that kind of stuff. And then once you get that money, you know, what are you going to do with this? So like you see these huge, you know, pretty much a $200 million deal is like, what are you guys going to clear? after that like 100, maybe 100 million, 110 million. You know what I mean? And then there's all kinds of fees

and people you're paying and the lifestyle. And so it's not, although it sounds like that is a lot of money. That's maybe an extreme example. But, you know, you see like a $5 million contract. Oh,

and then you're, well, they say you're making $5 million. So some people feel like, I need to live like I'm making that much so you're living above your means. So it's just a gamble with everybody is different. What do you guys think?

Because I heard rumor that LeBron that LeBron wants to create a new team here in Las Vegas. It's not happened. Love it. It's going to happen? I mean, we've been hearing about it. I mean, the NBA knows not out of ten times if I want to be involved in the team going anywhere in the world.

It's going to happen. I feel like it would immediately just be the most popular team ever. Like, I think it would be hard to compete with. I mean, you need to be good. You know, I'm a California sports fan. So I'm a Raider fan. I'm a Niner fan, but I'm a Raider fan too. And you guys got to win, although, you know, people are great

and you want to see, you want to be entertained. you still got to have a good product out there. I was the first time hearing that. I like all California. I just have my favorite team. Yeah, no question. So the rate is out. You can't beat fans of both.

How are you going to tell me what I can and can do? What are you down on 49ers? But I like teams from California. You don't like that. Okay. So he's a cowboy fan, so he doesn't have no one else to root for. So he gets salty all the time. Like, they would have been four and one right now.

They're going to lose to the Eagles this weekend. What's your record? What's your record? We're three and two, but we're coming. We're on the way. We're on the way. See. We're on the way.

We're on the way. So why do so many athletes' careers only end after a few years? How competitive is it to stay in? It's very competitive because you've got to think is somebody always trying to come take your job. Always somebody coming in. Hunger? Faster, stronger.

I wouldn't say hungrier. I think that's what keeps the hunger. That's what kept us 14? Yeah, there's just always, you know, it's like what's next. There's young kids that are watching you guys that want to, I want their spot. Yeah. They're going to come want your spot.

So I think that's just, that's huge. human nature. But it's just tough, man, that the odds are. Like I said, there's only 120, 430 guys in the league. You know what I mean? So it's just like turnover every year. You're losing 100 plus guys. So like, how can you say? How bad do you want it? Got some guys that come in and get that little taste the first three years to have the money and it can't handle it and feel like, you know, and they get complacent. Okay, I got these three years. I don't care about being on them more. Nah, got guys like us that are happy to be here. I don't play as long as we can. And do you, this is maybe the dumbest.

question ever but if you win the championships you get a bunch of extra money or is that basically just like you get a team bonus you get a team bonus you got a split between the team you guys got about what each player like like jack said you want to take care of your truck because of the trainers and guys that help you stay throughout the season they don't really get the bonuses but yeah I would say on average probably between 100 and 200 thousand extra yeah you get especially like if you win's best record you get more money I'm saying you get more money like the coach wins Coach of the year, everybody gets a little more in the pot. How do you guys invest your money right now?

Well, I'm involved in a cannabis company, Paula. I don't want to be tied down into too many things. I have a men's grooming line called Hugh for Every Man, that's in Target, a fresh press juice company where we have three stores and we're also online, called vibe help bar, so it's kind of our version of Starbucks, but just with juice and healthy stuff. Betting company, active dreamers where, you know, we make professional sport betting. So we make, you know, the blanket is the body and the pillow cases, the head. flowers flour you know we have a you know the number one like flower company

Los Angeles we serve all the a lot of A listers a lot of big A listers um tech obviously tech is the way you know so I have some tech investments I also have a cannabis investment um but just kind of learning on the fly again like I said yeah earning on the fly and and really you know to me the best way to learn is I have a lot of older people in the space that I just bother and lean on and take a look at this you know take a look at this deal and what do you think and should I do you know you do that enough you kind of start learning um as well so how do you get it into the cannabis industry and what's that like right now if the regulation you're opening it up a little bit how difficult is that i got lucky

um my best one of my close friends was the CEO of our company uh harrison he um was playing for the denbunuggets in 2010 and that's when it became legal and we were able to get a head a heads up a head start before everybody in the business. And being in this is 2010, we made a lot of mistakes. We made a lot of mistakes, but we got ahead of everybody. So to the point now, we were able to, I was able to basically be the face of athletes getting into the cannabis space. And, you know, he's done some great things as far as creating generational wealth

for different people as far as teaching people how to get licenses in the cannabis space and how to create your own business and generational wealth. he's been a good teacher in the cannabis space. And like I said, being able to be in the space first in 2010, gave us up on everybody. And we was able to learn the game early to be able to be where we have our own dispensary of all the dispensary in Detroit. And we have different grow houses and have our flower

and different cannabis dispensaries all across the country. Yeah. I heard it's difficult to collect money. You know, a lot of creditors. Cash business. Cash business. Just cash. Basically.

I've also heard stories that you're not supposed to keep too much cash because it could be rated or robbed. So how do you balance the two? Well, I mean, that's a question that Al would have to answer. Jack just gets the brown paper bag. Yeah, I get the brown paper bags. You know what I'm saying? Al would have to answer those questions.

But he is basically the guy, if you have, besides Matt, but it's a lot of guys that's in the cannabis space. For sport-wise, I'm pretty sure a good 90% of those guys and went to Al and got game and on how to move and how to get into this business. I'm just curious if you guys could maybe say what percentage of your income comes from different sources. I want to know how your business is broken down

as far as income goes. I would say probably the largest amount of money of making this from our podcast. Second is ESPN. And then outside of that, investments probably start coming in. But, you know, when you're doing startups and other stuff, you normally roll that right back into the business.

So there's not a ton of money yet coming from investments. And then, I mean, through this podcast, I've been able to do a whole bunch of other stuff as far as hosting and working for other teams and a bunch of different stuff. So, like, kind of miscellaneous would probably round out where the rest of it comes from. Easy. Easy this show. The show is 80% for me.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because with the money from Viola, my cannabis company, I don't touch. Yeah. It goes back into the business. Yeah, sure.

And the money I saved, you know, I use that just to make sure my kids are straight and family is straightened to live. But this show is basically all I do. You know, I do speaking engagements every now and then I do little stuff to make money, but this is really all I do, all I really want to do. I had no idea the podcast was doing such big numbers. Oh, wow. Wow.

I think what it was able to help us was, you know, our, obviously, we love our partner in Showtime, but the first time around we kind of hit us all in negotiations with our first deal. So I kind of went out and learned the space and kind of started talking to other companies. And in the midst of that, you know, really liked Eye Heart at the time. And then, you know, obviously my loyalty was to Showtime. So when Showtime came back around and, you know, they started making more sense with what they were talking about, I was just like, well, how can we marry the two? I Heart can handle your audio and Showtime can handle the digital.

side. So we were able to pretty much get double. Wow. Now we're, you know, we weren't just, before we were just getting the Showtime money. Now we're just getting money from IHeart, which, you know. So they pay you directly? And they basically have licensing overall of the content. So they have, IHeart does the audio side of it. And Showtime does the digital side of it. But they're, I mean, obviously it's a partnership, but we get two different checks from two different companies now when before we were just

getting one. How do you approach that? Is that before you started and you say, Hey, we're about to start this podcast. Do you want in on it? No, I just learned. I mean, again, this whole podcast came together randomly. Just with, you know, people, a friend connecting us with Showtime. And we found lightning in the bottle. So obviously our first year, we didn't make very much at all.

But in our first year, we want sports podcasts at the year. So we knew coming into year too, I was like, all right, we get money this year. So when, you know, initially when, again, the talks had stalled, I was just like, okay, well, damn, I love what I'm doing over here. But if they're not going to pay us, we need to go find someone who's going to pay us. Yes. Again, I was talking to Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Ihard, you name. And I was talking to all these companies. And then when Showtime's like, okay, let's make this happen, I'm just like, okay, you know, my loyalties to you. But I also really love what they have, what they told me over here, like how can we make

these work? And since one was primarily audio and then Showtime is more of a visual company, we were able to, you know, be partners with both. Wow. How many followers did you have at the time when you did that deal? Well, I know we started with Showtime basketball. I want to say there was a couple thousand and now we're over 700,000 subscribers on Showtime. So, you know, it's, it's, and obviously there's other shows, but, you know, with all due respect, I think we're kind of the driving force behind, you know, kind of getting that wheel

rolling and, you know, and then now it's helping us and everyone. That's incredible. What do you think of Joe Rogan selling to, uh, to Spotify, 100 million? I think it's dope, but I mean, you know, when you listen, you listen to people, some people say he under, you know, he should have got more. I think, I think, I think, though. he was one of the first to get such a deal at that caliber. And when you negotiated that, like, you're already getting the top.

So there's no one beyond that. Pat McAfee, too. Pat McAfee, too, got a nice deal. He got a great deal. And then call her daddy was like, 50 million bucks. 50 million. I feel like half of that. Yeah, yeah.

Looking back at that deal. Level is set. Darn, people then, like, accept that you can negotiate at that level. But if someone had, you know, done a hundred million dollar deal before him, he's the biggest. Yeah. He could have done 152. A lot of those people own 100% of their IP, too. Wow.

Yeah. I think, The day they announced they signed him, I think their stock went up by like a billion dollars. It was something nuts. So when you take his value to Spotify, it's significant. Some people said like he should have got more. You know what I mean? Because he is a movement himself.

So, you know, he's definitely, you know, a pioneer in this space. I haven't seen an episode, but I know he's a man in the podcast. He's good. You know, you aspire to us, you know, to get to a level like that where, you know, you could be set for life financially from a podcast who would ever thought that. Yeah. So what's your plan to continue growing the podcast? Five shows.

Yeah? Live show, just creativity. You know, I think I was talking to our team because we just started season four. And I was just like, I feel like we set the bar in this sports space, although we weren't the first, we set the bar. And I feel like not that everyone's caught up, but now they're in the same, they're in the same book. You know, so how this, you know, season four, how do we take it to another level? Obviously, more fan engagement, more live experiences, more, you know, action. access to us. We're traveling around, doing a lot. You know, we're here right now sitting with you guys,

and we're doing NASCAR and Bubba Wallace this weekend. Thanks to our friends over at Moneyline. Todd Gibbs. Shout out to Money Line. They make the dreams happen, but, you know, we got a partner in Money Line, but just continuing to try to, you know, give the fans what they want. You know, obviously we feel like, you know, we're at the core of our show, but you know, to get top-name guests is important too. So we continue to try to do that. But, you know, like Jack said, live shows, merch, more fan engagement, animated. We have an animated series coming.

You have a cannabis line coming. So just continuing to just, you know, not just touch this space, but, you know, how does this, you know, how does this cover our entire ecosystem and just be able to find different streams of revenue in different spaces through one thing?

Yeah. I do the commentating and we're boxing now. So, you know, it's a lot of stuff that's building from our podcast that we take advantage of. Yeah, so been a blessing. Yeah. So I got a question. If you guys could draw a pie with three different pieces of the pie,

one is the environment in which people grow up in, one is hard work, and one is natural skill. How would you draw the percentages as far as, if you want to be the best that you can be in the NBA, how big each slice of the pie occupy? Natural skill is the whole thing to me. I don't agree with that, but go ahead and do your pie first. I'm not going to eat your pie.

I'm going to eat my own pie. I want to say natural skill. For what percentage? All of it. A hundred. For me. Because everybody has a talent and everybody has a skill. Everybody don't figure out what their talent is skill.

So once I found out my skill was basketball, that's everything to me because that changed everybody life, that one game. Basketball did everything. Basketball is the reason why I'm here. My family's living good. Why I'm living good, basketball is the source to all that. So having that talent, putting that all together, that's the reason why I'm here. Without that talent, I'm not here.

So you just have one pie, no slices in it. I got that pie, ate that pie, and I'm going to make other pies for the people. Just to play devil's advocate real quick, real quick, because I know you want to answer too. What about, like, you know, the Ball Brothers or, you know, the son of LeBron James and stuff like that or Shaquille O'Neal's son? It's like, you know, they grew up in an environment. I feel like that culture played pretty hard into their ability. They still might not make it. They might get to the NBA.

They might not have a great career. they might stay in a position where their dads can force it for them so that might help but still they have to go out there and the brawl can't go in the game you're born with that skill you can't you don't mean when your dad goes away if you have that skill you can have you can still survive but if you go away if your dad goes away you don't have the skill you're going to be looking for help um i would say 10% is environment i grew up in never letting that hinder me but also realizing that made me the dog I was and had the mentality I had and had the chip on my shoulder. I would say 40% is natural ability.

I was just a super athlete when I was younger. Like basketball wasn't in my best sport. I was a football player. I played baseball. I ran track. I'd say 40% is natural ability. And I'd say 30% is hard work. And there's a lot of guys that are talented as fuck but don't work.

Yeah. So where are they going to go with that? Interesting. I agree. I feel like, you know, obviously natural talent. You have to have natural talent. You know what I mean? Like you have to have some talent.

But I mean, what are you going to do? I remember Kobe said like what are you going to do with that talent now? Like how hard are you going to work? How much do you want it? I feel like some people are very talented but don't really want it. And then you can tell. And for you Graham, if you're answering this as far as success in business and entrepreneurship.

What are the pieces you said? So you have natural skills. So innate just like you know, your smart person or hard work. Hard work. And then the environment that you grow up. Oh, geez. I'd say probably 50% natural skill

because you have to like really be into what you're doing. And like both of you, It seems like you were just, yeah, you were born. And so that gives you the ability to work hard, which I would say is probably another 30%. And then 20% is the environment. But so I think hard work and natural ability could, could overrun your environment.

Like it could out, I agree. It could outweigh that. It could be 50-50 with this goes to. Right. I agree. So that's what I think. What about you? What do I think?

As far as business, I'd probably say, 50% hard work, 40% natural skill and then 10%. That sounds like my pie. You know what? You know what? We all got the same circle around all our pies. Yeah. There we go.

Yeah. And I want to hear some hot takes. You guys have very, you know, not much time right now. If you guys were to say top three athletes to ever exist. Top three athletes to ever exist. You know what actually let's say like sure to ever exist yeah let's say yeah for me I'm going three I'm three right I'm going Muhammad Ali serena Williams Michael Jordan I'm gonna say LeBron James Because I'm a golfer so I say tiger okay um um I'm Brady Tom Brady

Brady yeah he's just in the mix okay so those are all yeah graham that's interesting I was I would say Tiger Kobe I don't know for a third though I'll just take the top two for now What are you, Jack? I would say, this is cliche, but I'd say, Bo Jackson. Oh, good call.

Nice. I would say Michael Phelps. And I would say, Michael Jordan. I'm not mad. And you got to think, too. I mean, you think like Bo Jackson,

professional athlete in two real sports. Any parting thoughts that you want to mention before we wrap up? Any advice to people watching? Any final thoughts that you want to get out there messages? No question is a dumb question.

Okay. That's just what I, no question is a dumb question. Don't know something. Don't be afraid to ask. I learned that as I got older. And one thing about me, I never listen to reply, listen to understand what you've been told. That's interesting.

I mean, if you want it, you've got to work for it. I think at the end of the day, I think, you know, everyone sees the end product and thinks, oh, shit, it should be easy. But, you know, gets in the grind and they're not cut out for the grind. So, you know, you're going to get out whatever you put into it. people have to be serious about their craft and if you love it you got to put your all into it and manifest it and believe it and every day get better at it oh thank you guys so much for coming on

thanks for having this man thanks for having this bro thanks for having us bro all right until next time thanks for watching until next time before I forget I got to get it