The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The $100,000,000 Power Couple Who Sold Everything | Hormozi

Starting point is 00:00:00 Alex and Layla Hormozzi have become the ultimate power couple. Together, they made over $100 million by their early 30s, and today they're sharing the secrets behind creating a successful relationship. The single most important decision that you make of all the systems in life is who you spend your life with. Building a multi-million dollar business. Right now, it's pacing just about $250 million a year. And how finding the right partner could be the best or worst investments you will ever make. Yeah, you should learn how to do this.

Starting point is 00:00:24 Let's build a fucking business. On this episode of... The iced coffee hour. This episode of Subscribe. Thank you guys for tuning in. Subscribe down below and let's get on with the episode. But first we got to thank our sponsor, Match. Oh, boy.

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Starting point is 00:02:07 Hello, we're Alex and Laylor Hermosie. We run Acquisition.com, which is a private equity fund firm, that we just privately manage our own wealth. Sounds really agree just when you put like that. Yeah, we have portfolio companies that right now is pacing just about $250 million a year. It's been a crazy journey. My wife and I met a long time ago. And or actually feels like it. It wasn't that long ago.

Starting point is 00:02:28 How long ago was it? Seven years? Yeah, seven. Yeah, but a lot has happened since then. So, yeah, I'll give you the quick rewrite up to the present. So I was a consulting bro who like did really well in school, did the consulting job, did my two years, was going to go try and get into Harvard, you know, scored really well. Realized that I wanted to be an entrepreneur in the two years of business school and the cost associated. Like I couldn't pencil it out.

Starting point is 00:02:51 I was like, I could take that money and do two years. Probably make the same money or more. So I decided to go that route. I was 23. I opened my first gym in California. So I drove across the country and opened a gym because that's what I thought I knew. I didn't know anything, but I thought I knew a little bit about fitness, knew nothing about business.

Starting point is 00:03:10 And that was a rude awakening for me, slept there on the floor for the first nine months, and then was able to kind of figure it out as I went. I talked to gym owners every single weekend. I would fly out or drive out and just like harass them to teach me more about how to run the gyms, learned a ton. And then from there, every six months after the first nine, months I opened a new location until we had six. And right around then is when Layla and I met. So I had, I think, five locations when Layla and I met. I had just spoken at an event because

Starting point is 00:03:40 they had heard that I opened each of my gyms at full capacity. So marketing guy had heard about this thing that I would do, which I'd run these big promotions and I'd pre-sell the whole thing. And I would use the cash from the pre-sells to actually pay for the actual whole facility. So I never took cash out of pocket, which is why I was able to open them so fast. And he's like, dude, you got to speak at my event and tell how you did it. So I spoke at this event and after I got off stage and like, I was just hoping I was some boring people. And I got mobbed.

Starting point is 00:04:05 Like I've never been mobbed. Still to this day, I've never been so like, like people were in the bathroom with me. Like I was like, this is, this is a lot. Wait,

Starting point is 00:04:12 what do you mean they were in the bathroom? Like I could, it took me an hour to get from the stage to the bathroom. So they were following you into that. And they just want to ask you a question about business or like, fitness business business in general, but mostly fitness stuff because that's what I, I was like,

Starting point is 00:04:24 here's how I'm getting, you know, 30 to one back on. I was like, every dollar I put in, I get $30 back, and here's the ads. I didn't know how presentations work, so I was just like, this is what I do. And they were like, hey, I want to sign up for whatever your thing is. And I was like, I don't have a thing. I'm just, this is just what I do.

Starting point is 00:04:37 Like, these are my numbers. And they're like, you have to have something. Can I pay you for time? I was like, no, I don't want to tell anybody what I'm doing. Like, I just made this presentation go away. But I got like a hundred, like literally had an Excel sheet for it to manage the hundred business cards I got from just that speech without wanting to. And I met.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Layla, I want to say like that week. I was like right after, like literally the week after. On Bumble. Yeah, on Bumble. Yeah. So you can probably pick it up from Bumble or you DM'd me, let the record show. That's how is your experience with Bumble, by the way? I mean, better than Tinder?

Starting point is 00:05:12 You know what I'm saying? What happened on Tinder? You can't share. Disgusting, yeah. I mean, like, it was just like inundated with photos that I didn't want to see. And so I was like, this is nasty. And Bumble was just coming on to the scene that. then, I think. Like, it was fairly new still. And, like, my girlfriends that were, like, a little more

Starting point is 00:05:30 classy told me about it. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm definitely going to do that. And so, you know, I'm on Bumble. And I'm, ironically, like, I am in California. I had graduated college and I had graduated with a degree in exercise science. And then the day after I graduated, I drove, I, like, packed up my Prius and I drove out to California. And I was like, I'm going to just, I got like a dumpy apartment that was like in the ghetto of Costa Mesa. I then was like, I'm going to get a job at a gym. So get a job at a gym. I applied to like literally every gym. I got accepted all of them and like, I didn't even work at one of the nice ones because in the beginning I was like, okay, well, when can I start making sales and money? And they're like, you have to go through three month

Starting point is 00:06:08 training program. And I was like, screw this. Like I need money now because I don't have money to pay for my apartment. And so I did that. And then I worked my way up to being one of the top sellers at the gym I was at. I then took my clientele, went to a private facility, would train them there and then started doing that plus online training because that was like right at the precipice. of when online was starting, so I was like, you didn't need to know how to do anything. And you could have people, you know, I was just like, you want to be my online client for $500 a month? Like, it was just like so easy. $500 a month.

Starting point is 00:06:36 Oh, yeah. Can you think that's a lot? Yeah. Oh, man. That's expensive. Is it for online? Personal training? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:43 What would, what does that entail exactly? I mean, like, how many sessions? Yeah. There's no sessions. There's no sessions. It's just like, you know, they have an online portal. You're doing their, what, what food they're supposed to be eating. You're giving them their workout regimen.

Starting point is 00:06:55 Oh, it's not like a video. You're watching them work out. No. Oh. It's just a schedule based. Wow. Interesting. Okay.

Starting point is 00:07:02 It was so easy back then. Okay. Yeah. So anyways, you know, I'm doing that and I'm like, I knew that I wanted to have a business one day. I just didn't know what it looked like. I knew it was some kind of fitness business. And dating out in California was tough because, like, I'm from the Midwest and like, I'm

Starting point is 00:07:18 ambitious and I'm not, I'm not like a lot of the girls in California where it's like, you know, I would be like, oh, I'm single. And they're like, you should be going on a date for breakfast. breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And I was like, girl, what? Like, I'm working. You know what I mean? And so I got on Bumble, and I was like, my goal was every day at lunch, I would swipe

Starting point is 00:07:33 the whole lunch. And that was just, like, my assignment to myself. And so I did that until I met Alex. But now, why did you decide that that was the right time for you to find somebody? I didn't think it was. Okay. I just was like, I, one, I have no friends. Two, all I do is work.

Starting point is 00:07:49 I need to do, like, if I don't start now, I'm like, how long is it going to take me to find somebody? How old were you? 23. And what was the objective of doing that? Was it to find like a lifelong partner? Or was it just to like, it was just like, somebody to have fun with. You know what I mean? Like it was like, I had no friends. I didn't know anybody out there. I was like, gosh, like I have to try. You know what I mean? Like find somebody that would just be cool to hang out with. Because I felt like a lot of the guys I would meet. Like, I literally went on one date. I'll tell you this. And I meet this guy. He's really cool. We go on this

Starting point is 00:08:18 date. You know, I thought he was awesome. He like, you know, has good things going for him. He's like ambitious and stuff. And that was what I was looking for. Specifically. I want someone who's ambitious, who had like their own going for them. And the second date, he takes me to Javier's. Oh, God, it's these water. Oh, very fancy. A very nice restaurant. Very nice place.

Starting point is 00:08:37 With like a couple of his friends. And I think, you know, everyone was like drinking a little bit. I barely did at that point. And at the end of the dinner, we like sidelined afterwards. And he was like, hey. And I was like, yeah. He's like, if you could just like not talk as much, that'd be great. And I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:08:53 And he's like, yeah, I mean like, you know, like you look really nice. And like if you were just like, you know, I want you to come to the dinner and like sit and like look nice. And I was like, oh, oh, we are not one in the same. And I was like, this is not going to work. As bluntly as that. Yeah. And that was like, that sums up my dating experience in Newport Beach, California was like, why can't you just shut the fuck up and look pretty? They wanted.

Starting point is 00:09:18 That was what everybody wanted. Okay. And I've just never been that person. You know what I mean? Like, when I moved there. Everyone's like, I'm trying to get clients, for example. And they'd be like, hike up your shorts, pull down your shirt. And I was like, what the?

Starting point is 00:09:29 I was like, I will win off being so good at business, not off of showing off skin. Right. And that's just always what I've been. So that was my experience up until Alex was just a lot of that. And then I was like, all skin, all the way. Pulled it down. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:45 I got a question. So were you guys paying for Bumble premium, like the advanced one? I don't think that existed. It did not. It did. It just, I remember it had just like started. Really? I didn't because I was like, I don't need unlimited looks.

Starting point is 00:09:56 I was like, I'll play on steroids. I'll play nashy, but I'll go. Yeah. And you were not paying for it as well? No. Interesting. Okay, so you guys know Andre Jick, right? Andre, yeah, the finance YouTuber.

Starting point is 00:10:09 He basically came to me and he's like, hey man, I know you don't pay for apps because I have, you know, I got them all. And he said, but you should. It's a numbers game. And if you just swipe and swipe and swipe and swipe, you have a higher chance of finding a right match. And they also show you who likes you if you pay for Tinder Platinum. which saves you copious amounts of time, right? And it's worth it if you average out the value of your time

Starting point is 00:10:29 and the time spent on the apps if you don't have it, it's worth it. I think it makes sense. We were just both cheap. I think I was super cheap back then. So like, I just don't think I was like. Fair enough. Do you remember swiping on Alex's profile?

Starting point is 00:10:41 What was it like? What was it like? What set that apart? Well, it was a picture of a guy with a six-pack. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that was the, really? That was the first photo? Yeah, in the water with sunglasses on.

Starting point is 00:10:57 It was, it was, it was, it was not like in the mirror. I was like at the beach. Okay. Literally in the water, half submerged. So someone else took the picture. I was like, I was, I had some floaty or whatever that I was like moving and I'm just had a like. Can you tell us?

Starting point is 00:11:09 Was that a, it was an old picture, okay? Which I realized when we met. Yeah. So that was who it was. But it specifically, it was like fitness and business. So it was like own five gyms, fitness. And then. And like something else, you remember.

Starting point is 00:11:24 Cheap bourbons and expensive stakes. Cheap bourbons and expensive stakes. I can get behind that. Yeah. But I was like, ooh, business and fitness. Like that sounds like me too. So that was why I swiped. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:34 And then he messaged me immediately after I messaged him and was like, we should get off the app. Let's talk on the phone. And that was actually what I appreciated the most is I was like, I'm so sick of these guys that have like so much time to waste, you know, like talking on these apps, not actually like moving forward to a date. I was like, this is just like lame. So I actually really appreciate that he wanted to talk on the phone.

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Starting point is 00:13:35 And I was like, would you, I would pay you to leave. Can you please leave? Anyways. Well, wait, can you tell us what went wrong with it? Oh, God. It was so I understood. This was the first date I went on after being in a five relationship. There were no apps.

Starting point is 00:13:47 Like I didn't know any of how this world worked. So I had texted with this girl or whatever. And I was like, hey, I live in this, I lived in a really nice condo. I was like, oh, there's like this whole pool thingy area. Like we can meet at my place and then we'll like go hang out there, grill, whatever. Middle of the day. So I wasn't trying to be, you know, sketchy or whatever. I now realized that it is incredibly sketchy for a girl to just meet a guy in this place on the first date without a conversation.

Starting point is 00:14:14 Right. So like that's who I was dealing with here. So she just shows up at my door. I let her in, and I still only think about this in retrospect. And we have probably the most awkward, no, like, weird exchange, like, I don't know what to talk to you about anything. And then this is maybe like a 45 or 60 minute date. And then she was like, hey, do you have any food? And I was like, yeah, I've got like leftovers.

Starting point is 00:14:41 And she was like, do you want food? And she was like, yeah, that'd be great. She was like, I've got, I got to go up to L.A. tonight for dinner. And I was like, and then it like became clear was another date. And so I was like, okay, so I'm lunch. Got it. All right. So I know it was another date?

Starting point is 00:14:58 Couldn't it have been like friends or family? You know what I mean? Like I'm guessing she also was hungry in a different way. And that's why she was there to eat lunch. So anyways, I like literally heated up leftovers. I gave her a plate. She ate it. Like she was hungry.

Starting point is 00:15:13 She ate the whole plate. And then I was like, bye? You know, like... Did she not leave you a tip? I mean, I feel like I should have had one.

Starting point is 00:15:21 Yeah. It's... Intuity of some sort. That was my first online dating exchange. And I was like, this process is broke. How did you kick her out? I was like...

Starting point is 00:15:31 She finished. Yeah. She finished. She finished and then left, right? And so I was like, finished your plate. Um, that taught me a really important lesson,

Starting point is 00:15:42 which was I was like, no more dates without a phone screen. And so I would get on, and within two messages, I would say, hey, I have lunch at this time. I can call you at that time while I'm on my way. Like, what's your number? And four out of five times, the girls would be like, thank God. Like, I don't want to talk on these apps all day. And then one out of five times, it would be a ghost.

Starting point is 00:16:04 So that was my, like, my metric there. And so I would get on the phone and I would just do a phone screen. So I was just like, hey, you know, how's it going? What's going on? Whatever, whatever. And so what happened, though, and I think reason my, like, close rate was higher. was that I would go to the date with like a first date out of the way. So we'd have like a 15 or 20 minute call.

Starting point is 00:16:20 And so I'd be like, oh yeah, right, because your brother, he's in Iowa and he's a medical engineer. Yeah, yeah, totally. And so there was just more rapport and more like feeling of familiarity. And so anyways, that became a mainstay in the process. And I would always do Froyo for the first date if I could to have a low commitment so we can back out in like five or 10 minutes if it's like not good. And so that was, anyways, that was my bubble dating. I have a funny Tinder story.

Starting point is 00:16:44 I think I've told you this one, Jack, but I was trying to optimize for Tinder. And I noticed that maybe I'd only get a few matches a day. And gosh, this must have been like 10 years ago. I was swiping and all of a sudden I see like this blue, like this glowing blue profile. Oh, yeah. I'm like, what is this? And it's a super like. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:02 And so I screenshot it and I photoshop my main picture to be a super like. Because I think you're only about. Unlimited superlikes on every single girl who swat on your account. Every single one. And I went from getting maybe a few matches a day to hundreds. And it lasted about two to three weeks and my profile was taken down. You got banned. I got banned.

Starting point is 00:17:22 That's smart. But it worked. That's so good. So that's, so we actually did, we did Froyo for the first date, true to the, true to the process. You'd have stick to the process. Very romantic. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:36 And I actually, so Layla actually got there first. And I was walking up from behind her. and I immediately was like, shit, because she has a full back tap. Like, back to tailbone. And I was like, no, this is not going to be a good date. So, like, he walks up. Were you open back? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:59 I didn't even think about it, though, because, like, I got this thing, you know, 10 years ago, whatever. It was, I got so long ago. And I was, like, when I was high and, like, it is what it is. But he walks up and back and then he comes in the front. And, like, he's just like, hey. And I was like, oh, God. I was like, and he was like, you want to go in, get some pro? I was like, let's knock this.

Starting point is 00:18:18 I was like, I was like half smiling, like, you know, like, hey, you know, and we go in and we're standing in line. I remember just looking at his face and he was like, I don't think we talk. He didn't talk. I didn't talk. I didn't talk. How do you have that confidence to not feel like you need to like, you know, be energetic in a date, you know? I think it's a plight amount. You, really?

Starting point is 00:18:39 Yeah. So as long as you go on so many dates, it just doesn't. You no longer feel that anciness and like but didn't get a lot of that out in the phone call in the phone screening process Yeah, there was definitely yeah the phone screen went and actually Layla tried to cancel on the date She did but I I told him I was sick and he goes you're not sick How did you know? How did you know? I was just like I've been selling for a long time You know what gave it away? I could just she didn't have conviction in her in her

Starting point is 00:19:07 She's like oh well kind of sick. I was like you're on the phone with me. I was like you're not that sick I was like I was like, no, I really don't feel good. He's like, yeah, you're fine. We're going on the date tomorrow. And I was like, what? Holy gal. That's a power move right there. I kind of appreciated it because nobody ever pushes back on me.

Starting point is 00:19:23 But why did you feel the need to say you were sick? Like, what made you hesitant about that? Yeah, I think I was hung over because I went out and partied the night before. So you weren't feeling well then. And I was like, oh, I just don't want to, you know, do this. Like, what do I care? I was, and like, listen, I've had so many bad dates at this point. Like, I'm pretty sure the one right before,

Starting point is 00:19:41 that the guy like tried to sneak me into a movie without paying like it was just like it was bad he tried to because he wanted to save the he wanted to save money and how did he did he end up doing it successfully we got we went in I was like wait don't we have the ticket he's like no I have the special uh pass and I was like okay and you got in and so we went in and then this security came up to us no and they were like you need to leave you snuck into the movies and I was like wait did you he's like oh I was just trying to save a few dollars I was like man like it was just like movie first So I don't know. Part of me thought that Alex might be like a little bit of a sociopath when I talked to him.

Starting point is 00:20:17 So I was like, I don't know. Like the way he's talking and everything. Like it sounds a little sketchy. Yeah. So that was honestly like my inkling as well. And then, you know, turned out to do. So. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:28 There you go. So what happened with the tattoos? So you're in line and you're not saying anything? So, no, I mean, yeah, we weren't saying anything. And then I also tend to be a little bit of a hangary person. So like if I don't eat for a while, I am not as friendly. And so I got, so I, you know, I started a couple bites of pro you, a lot of little sugar in my system. Then I was like, all right, tell me about you.

Starting point is 00:20:48 And then, you know, it warmed up. And then, and then we had a great conversation because she wanted to talk about business. And so I was like, great. And because the vast majority of my dates was always just like me expending a lot of energy, pretending to be interested in whatever they were saying. And I was like, I don't have to pretend to be interested in what you're saying. This is great. We're going to talk about what I want to talk about, which is business.

Starting point is 00:21:06 So I'll talk all day. And so we talked for like four hours. We went on a walk for like, we went to walk like two something miles, like just talking. Which I had also read was a way of increasing trust faster because people trust inherently people they'd travel with. He told me that while we were walking. He's like, listen to what I'm doing to you right now. I was like, I'm increasing rapport faster. I was like, let's go for a walk.

Starting point is 00:21:26 And was there a certain like aha moment where you were on the date and you're like, okay, this is good. You check all the boxes and we're good to go. There had to have been for you because you came to my car right after. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I had to go to a dinner, just a friend's dinner. And I was like, hey, I actually need to buy steak and stuff for this dinner. I'm going to go.

Starting point is 00:21:46 So I was like, want to grocery shop with me for like 30 minutes? Because we were like in a retail shopping center. Yeah, got it. And she was like, okay. And so then we shop for like the last 30 minutes or what 20 minutes, whatever it was to get the stakes. And then I was like, hey, this was fun. Let's do this again. And then he called me that night.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Yeah. And then we talked for like three hours. Three hours. Yeah. And then after that, the thing that made this relationship. Yeah. you're talking about? Just all business. Honestly, we talked about a lot of stuff, I think, in the very beginning.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Like, views on everything in life, essentially. You know what I mean? Like, just perspectives in general. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Was there anything romantic at that point? Or it was mostly just like, hey, we hit it up. You're smiling.

Starting point is 00:22:22 And you're shaking your head and you're smiling. I was thinking about in the pool. Do you remember what I said? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, there was not romantic vibes in the beginning, which is like weird because, like, we're like physically a very compatible match and everything. But, like, I think we were just, like, for me at least, I was like, it's just,

Starting point is 00:22:36 it's just so nice to talk to someone that I actually want to talk to. Like I was like, I want to keep talking to this person. I'm just so interested. That was the word. It was like, I'm so interested. More interested than I am concerned with like anything else. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:50 And what was it that you said in the pool? So it was our second date? Yeah, it was our second date. Right? And we were in the pool. And I was just surprised because I think by then we'd gone to this is our second date. And he didn't try to kiss me on the first date. And then we're on the second date and we're like in the pool playing around.

Starting point is 00:23:09 I'm in a bikini. And he didn't try and kiss me or anything. And I was like, I don't understand why is this guy not trying to kiss me. So I literally looked at him and I was like, I just feel like I just kind of gets his friend vibes. And he was like, I had never seen. All of a sudden his face turned from like, it's super friendly to like, you're going to like, you're going to learn. And he was like, friend?

Starting point is 00:23:30 And then he like threw his head back and chuckles. And he was like, I'll show you. You know? Like, oh my gosh. It was like a, it was, I, never in my life. Is that a trigger point is to be a friend? Oh, no. Never.

Starting point is 00:23:42 It was so funny. Yeah. Not once in my entire life had a girl said, I get friend vibes from you. Ever. Like, ever. And so to me, it was like, this is the funniest. Like, I laughed like a psychopath when I heard that because I was like, that is the funniest thing. He wouldn't stop laughing.

Starting point is 00:23:58 And I was like, and then I got kind of scared. I was like, I don't know what I said wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, the resolution. Yeah, we resolved that we were not friends. You know, that was those. He kissed me. Made my intentions. Good. Nice. But yeah, but I mean, I think that the thing that was interesting for me at least was that the word that she used interested was the same one that I had. I was like, she's just interesting. Like I, I, I enjoyed talking to her. I wanted to keep talking to her. And I didn't feel like there was a lot of effort on my part to

Starting point is 00:24:27 like keep conversation go or anything like that. And so what pretty much after that first date, we hung out every day. And so it was much more like, like, and we didn't go on dates. I was just like, I'm going to be working all day. You can work next to me if you want. And she was like, sure. And so that was what we did. And so we pretty much just like started living life together, like, as soon as we met.

Starting point is 00:24:50 And there wasn't a lot of like relationship stake because within the first week of us, of us being together, I was like, you should, you should quit your thing and work with me. Like, even if I remember saying, I was like, even if this doesn't work out or like, I don't come with the deal, like, this is employment. this is what I would pay and it'll be whatever you're getting paid because I know like if you can sell like we can make a ton of money together and that so I was not receptive of first yeah she was not receptive for why is that but we just met we just met I mean you know that's it's all your exit into it's like a week into it started success yeah like ship and career yeah yeah yeah yeah and you know he pointed out that like everyone's he you know the options that I had were like people trying to basically like monetize me yeah and he's like you're bringing everything at table and then he's like but come

Starting point is 00:25:34 work with me. And I was like, well, he's like, yeah, but you're making way more money. So it took like a few weeks. Yeah. Okay. There's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus,

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Starting point is 00:26:14 and that's because I had just spoken at that event to go full circle. So I'd just spoken at that event, I had all these business cards, and I was like, I think I could make some money doing this, like just figuring out how to, like, help other people, like, launch their gyms. And so I was like, I'm going to start this thing called Gym Launch. And, like, the next time she came over, like, I had all the dogs and the bank accounts and everything. Like, it was all set up. And she was like, you're going to do it.

Starting point is 00:26:34 I was like, yeah, I said I was going to do it. Like, let's go do it. But she still wasn't like sure because she had a full book of business. It takes like a year or two years sometimes to build up a full like training roster. And so she already had that. So it would be like significant cost or risk to walk away from that. And so I was like, I'm going to go do this and I'll come back and let you know how it goes. And so I called her every night while I was doing these launches.

Starting point is 00:26:52 And so I did three launches in like, I want to say like six weeks, something like that. It was like two and a half weeks. It was definitely long. I was at Josh's for two and a half weeks. And I did three launches. I feel like it was two weeks. It was like six weeks. And so, and then I flew back and she picked me up from the airport.

Starting point is 00:27:08 And she was like, you have to take me on a date. That's the, because I hadn't taken on a date. I was like, I need to set some standards here, which is like, you know, we've been going to Panda Express and Chpulte like every night. And like, as nice as those are, I was like, we should go do something that's like cute and fun, you know. His flowers. Where did you guys go on the date? The cliff in Laguna Beach. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:29 And as she picked me up, I was like, hey, I know I promised you were going on a date. I did this one thing first and she was like, dude, seriously? She was like dressed out ready to go. And I was like, so I poured her a glass of like whiskey or something. And then I poured myself one and I taught her how to process payments. And so I took out this fat sack of contracts. And I was like, can you just help me process all these?

Starting point is 00:27:48 And so we processed like 45 minutes later, we had processed like 120 grand or something like that in an hour. And I knew what I was doing. And so like, like you want to do this thing with me? And the first question she asked me was, is this legal? I didn't know. You know, you also have to understand context, which is like Alex's apartment at the time, for example. Like, you walk in. It's like pristine, clean with like pictures of animals and killing positions on the walls.

Starting point is 00:28:16 And then like in the fridge, it's just like diet Coke and yogurt. And he drinks egg whites out of a carton while he's drinking whiskey. Like, you know, I'm like questionable. What taught you that that was a normal way of like life? Well, I didn't think it was a normal way of life, but I didn't want a normal life. I knew it. Well, yeah. I mean, I had Coke zero. I had. I had. Red Bull, I had Greek yogurt that was 0% and I had egg whites and then I had Johnny Walker Black. Is Coke zero that unhealthy? Because I've been getting into Diet Coke lately and I hear like a lot of

Starting point is 00:28:44 people tell me like it has what do they call carcinogens. How smart are those people? Sorry. I don't know. That's the thing, you know. I know nothing about nutrition. So anybody's probably smart. Let's blow up the comments. It's fine. It's fine. You can smell it's better than cigarette a a week and it wouldn't be unhealthy for you. Sure. Really. You drink water all day. Great. It's also better to like Not driving cars, only walk everywhere. Like, don't smoke. Don't see people like live in a bubble your whole life. Rub your face in the dirt every morning.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Not live. But if drinking a Coke Zero is the thing that you're like most concerned about in your life and you're doing everything else. It's interesting. The big obvious stuff. Like the people who are upset about like Diet Coke and Coke Zero are the ones that like don't even work out. I'm like, dude, I want you just like shut the fuck. And you're a very clean person just in general. I'm neat.

Starting point is 00:29:26 I'm very, I'm like, I'm tidy. I don't like stuff out. Well, you pick up that for me. So now it's like my own night. Yeah. You know, like with myself, like I, I would spend a very lot of effort to not make a mess so I wouldn't have to clean. So I would like eat over the sink, the same cup, you know.

Starting point is 00:29:43 That's what I did. Yeah, because I didn't want, one plates. Yeah. One fork, one spoon, one bowl. That's it. And I just wash it as soon as I've done with it. Simple life. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:50 It worked out fine. And I would always just put water on it. And as soon as I would eat the next meal, I would just, because it was like, yeah, exactly. One wipe and then I put my face. That's funny. The exact same thing. Dude, it worked fine.

Starting point is 00:30:01 And then I had all the animal pictures on the wall of like in killing and attack positions because like I was really hardcore at the time. Like more than I am now. And I was just like I was going to be reminded that I'm either the predator of the prey. I was pretty awkward. I can't even. He told me this. Isn't that make you feel like the prey now? I was like, well, I'm not the prey.

Starting point is 00:30:22 No, I couldn't even take it seriously. I was like, I remember he told me and I started laughing and he was like what? And I was like, what? You know, like I just, I don't know. I thought it was quirky. Yeah, it was only quirky, but I was like, it wasn't for her. You know what I mean? It was for me. And so for me, it was like, if I didn't want to work or whatever, I was just like, everything around me was like, keep going. You know what I mean? And so that was the stage I was in business wise. Like I was very much in the like, I have to, I have to grind. I have to work a lot phase. And so I just, and that's why it worked out with us because I didn't, the biggest thing that biggest reason I believe that are among the biggest reasons is that Layla never tried to change me. And that. that was something that I felt like was a constant in the majority of the other relationships that I had was like,

Starting point is 00:31:05 you're here, I'm here, let's meet in the middle. And that's why I said strong stance on compromise, because I, like, I don't think you can compromise on you. You know what I mean? And so I always felt like I had to be less than or a different version of myself in order to like make the relationship work. And I also was in a season where like I had just gotten out of a long relationship. So I was like, I'm not really bending the knee to anyone for anything. Like, I'm not compromising. If you don't like my schedule, then cool. Like, I'm not going to stop living how I live. And so she just kind of like oriented herself around me and it worked just amazingly well and I got to do what I want to do all day, which is work and it was great. How did you feel about that? Did you feel like

Starting point is 00:31:43 you needed to compromise or bend a little bit to fit Alex? What was your side of things on that? No, honestly, I think we got really lucky because I was kind of always the same way, which is like, I'm not going to like be less of myself and like less ambitious and less career oriented for a man because that was what typically they wanted of me. So I actually really liked the fact that he wanted to work all the time because I was just finally somebody that didn't tell me like, oh, you need to go do your hair and look pretty. Like it was someone who was like, yeah, you should learn how to do this.

Starting point is 00:32:11 Like let's build a fucking business. Like let's do all this stuff. Like I just loved that he believed in me so much. And I think most men that I had dated up into that point, I'm sure they believed in me, but I don't think that they wanted me to ever be any better than I was because they were worried that it would be better than them. Where do you think that independence came from?

Starting point is 00:32:29 Have you always been like that? Was it an upbringing? Was it a... I think it was a couple things. One, you know, like having when my parents separated and I lived with my mother, she basically was an absent parent, just, you know, alcohol and all that stuff. And so for a period of time, it was kind of like I raised myself. Like nobody was there, kind of have to learn how to do things for yourself.

Starting point is 00:32:51 For context, because Layla won't say it. Like, Lela would be alone for days or weeks at a time as like a nine-year-old. Like a different vibe. You know, I mean, just for context here. Yeah. Yeah. But either way, I think it was that plus.

Starting point is 00:33:05 Then when I finally moved in with my dad, when they figured out that my mom was not fit to be a parent, my dad, my dad, he's always just instilled like a huge sense of like you need to have your own career. You need to make your own money. Like you need to be self-sufficient as a woman. And he's always very adamant about that for me and my sister. So I think it was hearing that as I'm growing up. Like, that is the priority. And I think what a lot of women here is the priority is like you're going to have a family and you're going to have kids. And like, that's what you do.

Starting point is 00:33:31 Versus like my dad was like, you make money. You have a living of your own. You have a career. Like, that's what you do. And so if you're told that enough times, I think that becomes kind of your frame of the world. I remember, I think it was either the first or second time we had you won. You said that there are two different, you know, relationship structures that work well. And one is like we're in the trenches together.

Starting point is 00:33:48 We're grinding it out. The other one is the cheerleader and the football player. Right. And what is your sentiment towards this? You said that we're in the trenches together is more powerful. It's harder to break. and it's just a better overall relationship is kind of what you were hinting at. Divorce rates for people who have made a dollar together in a business they started is 10%.

Starting point is 00:34:09 So it's significantly lower. And I think maybe that's because there's like in order to even get to that first dollar together with somebody, like there's a lot of other things that have to be aligned. And then you also have this post commitment kind of bias where you both want to keep this thing alive and you're both working together towards like a shared mission or goal. And so I think there's just a lot of alignment that happens there. And there's also a lot of context. And so one of the things that I think happens in many relationships is that people get exposed to different stimuli.

Starting point is 00:34:33 And then they adapt to those stimuli and then they grow apart just because of the nature of just stimulus response, right? And so if you're both in the same business together, you're being exposed to the same stressors. And then you can grow together in the same direction. And I think at least for us, that's been our experience rather than having to like, we just have a shared mission. And so we're on it together. I think it's something we were talking about the other day is, you know, we were talking to a guy and he's, was talking about wanting an open relationship. And I come from the air of like, I'm not the kind of woman who's like, oh, my husband should never look at a lot. He never looks at another woman.

Starting point is 00:35:06 I assume that Alex looks at other women because he's a man. Like that is what men do. And that's like how we're wired. Like we're humans, right? That's a human thing. And I think what I subscribe to is that if you want a relationship to last, then you have to create more reasons to stay with the person than to not. Because there's always reasons not to be with somebody. Freedom, autonomy, you want to go bang other people, whatever it is, right? It's like we have all these human instinctual things that are pulling us in one direction. Can you create more reasons within your relationship to stay with that person? So if you work together, if you're on the same mission together, if you have the same values,

Starting point is 00:35:39 if you both like fitness and nutrition and like all these things, those are all the arguments as to why you want to be with that person. And I think what happens, a lot of relationships, they just don't have much of an argument. It's like, cool, we like fucking each other and that's it. Like, I can go f***ing each other people. and then there's nothing else in common. They're not on the same mission. They have nothing else to argue.

Starting point is 00:35:58 So when things are hard, your mind is going to go, why am I with this person? It's like I have a million reasons why I'm with Alex. If we ever have a hard day, it's like the thought of exiting doesn't even cross my mind because there's so much overwhelming evidence as to why it makes sense to stay. Don't you think it complicates things

Starting point is 00:36:14 to also be in business that maybe now financially you have an incentive to stay together? I think it absolutely complicates things in terms of like there are more layers to the relationship, but I also think that to the same degree they can compound and become even, you become even, you have more potential for disruption, but also more potential for alignment. I'll say this, which is like me and Alex when we are dating, we broke up for six

Starting point is 00:36:38 weeks. And we talked about in the very beginning of our relationship, like if we're going to get into business together and do this together, then we need to know what it would look like if we weren't together. And so when we broke up, we both uphold our end of the bargain. Like, we were great partners to each other without being in a relationship. And so like I look at it like this, which is like if you have to worry about the exit, then you shouldn't be with the person. I don't worry about that with Alex. And I, I even, we talked about this the other day. I was like, we would just do that again. You know what I mean? Like it would be amicable. And so I think if you have to worry about what it would look like, oh, we're going to fight over money and do this stuff, it's like,

Starting point is 00:37:14 then don't be with the person. Why did you guys break up? Was that on purpose to, it was, it was, it was mostly me. Yeah, no, not to test it. No, it was. I'm like, hey, we should Test prank and wants to see what it's like. See how we go. No. I had, so at the time, this is like,

Starting point is 00:37:27 this was probably like during the hardest 90 to 120 days of probably my like career besides going out of my own and like starting the gym. Like that was very hard for me. But this was like the next hardest season because like I had lost all the money because of a partnership that person had taken the money out of the account. It was a whole thing. So I'd lost basically all the money I'd had from opening and scaling all the gyms. So like when I met her,

Starting point is 00:37:50 I felt like I felt like, I had high status because I had five gyms and I was successful when I was doing these things. And then I lost everything. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habaniero? More like Habinier, yes.

Starting point is 00:38:22 Save the everyday with Amazon. And then my mom got in an accident, and then so she was at the hospital, and then I got a DUI and a head-on collision, all within a matter of like a month and a half. And I just like, and I still had a partnership for a chiropractor agency, a partnership for a dental marketing agency.

Starting point is 00:38:47 I was doing the actual launches, flying out, not at home, doing these launches. And then I still had my five gyms at home. And so I was so spread thin and I had so much emotional noise that was going on that I was like, she actually came to me. She was like broke up with herself. She was like, do you want to not do this? And I was like, yeah, that's fine. That was literally the conversation.

Starting point is 00:39:07 I was like, do you want to just not do this? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, okay. How long into the relationship was this? Well, we were living and traveling together at this point. We were in Virginia. We were in a different state launching a gym there together. Seven months in?

Starting point is 00:39:24 Yeah, somewhere in there. Seven? No. How do you feel like a relationship complicated things for you at that time versus just being a business partner? Was it vulnerability or just a time? No, it's just like there's another dynamic. You know, if we were just business partners,

Starting point is 00:39:36 there's not like another dynamic of the relationship you have to take care of. And what was that like for you going through all of those within a month and a half? How did you come out of that? Better? I mean, I just, I honestly, I did not have attention.

Starting point is 00:39:49 So that was what I identified was that I was just way too spread thin. And so I mean, I say this a lot, but like a lot of times, like the life you want is on the other side of a few hard conversations. And so I knew I shouldn't have been in those partnerships, like multiple of them. I was still in the partnership with the guy who had taken all the money. You know what I mean? Like I was so afraid of confrontation. And so I was like, we need to end this. And I was in another partnership.

Starting point is 00:40:14 And I was like, I need to end that. And then I was in, I was in three different partners. partnerships across those different companies, and I ended all of them. And the difficulty for, I knew it was going to be a hard conversation because I was the one who was for the, I mean, I was, there was, I was, I was the one who was bringing the money in. And so it didn't, didn't change my life, but I knew it was going to change theirs if I left the dynamic of the relationship. And so, that's why I was dreading those conversations.

Starting point is 00:40:38 And so anyways, I had all those conversations. I, you know, cut back on my drinking significantly and then just try to like focus on the thing that was in front of me, which was, like, this was actually Layla. She was like, do the gym launch thing works. Like, we should just like focus on that. And I was like, all right, let's do that. And so I lost all the money. And then Layla went to launch this big gym in Hawaii.

Starting point is 00:41:00 And this, and it ended up being. And so one of the reasons that we got back together was that I never could rely on anyone. And so it was like, it was always Alex has to save the game. Right. And I was accustomed to doing that. I'd done over and over again, the business, whatever. And so when she flew out to Hawaii, I basically was like, you need to make this work. Like you have to crush this launch.

Starting point is 00:41:23 And I didn't have that much money left. And it cost 10 grand to like put her up in Hawaii for, it was like six weeks or whatever, like hotels, airfare. In Hawaii is expensive. And so she was splitting a house with five guys. And it was still like 250 at night. But it was all like really afford. And so we launched this gym in Hawaii.

Starting point is 00:41:40 And then in that time, she set the all time record for sales. And so it was like at a time that was. probably pretty difficult for her. You know what I mean? Like we had just broken up. What's my future look like? What am I going to do with this guy? You know, whatever.

Starting point is 00:41:52 And she's in another state in the middle of the ocean. And I was like, you have to come through. And she did. And so it was one of those times like most people had always wilted under pressure. But like, Layla was hard as fuck. And I was like, man, wherever I'm going, I know that I need someone like that with me because I know where I want to go and the life that I want to lead is not going to be normal. And so I need somebody who can handle that kind of pressure.

Starting point is 00:42:23 And she crushed it. And so we talked every night. Well, I mean, just to show like, we weren't like malicious. We talked every night still about the business, things that we were improving, et cetera. And she came back and that cash was what I was able to put into all the refunds at this gym that I basically had to shut down. That was my number six that that other guy was supposed to partner with me on. And then he dipped or whatever. So I had to put, I basically had to float payroll, rent, everything without bringing in new sales, basically just out of my savings, which sucked.

Starting point is 00:42:50 And so all that cash went to there. And so that was when she came back. I was in a better place. I'd like cleaned up a lot of these like hard conversations I needed to have. And she had just like stood tall throughout the whole time. And so I think what happened at that point is that Layla earned my respect. And so like not that I didn't respect her before, but like she earned the respect. like independent you know what i mean it wasn't like oh yeah we're going to do this thing together

Starting point is 00:43:16 and you're a girl that i'm with it was like i would do this with you even if we weren't together yeah and i think that was the pivot what kept you going lela through that what what motivated you at that point to work so hard i think i've always worked really hard and so it was just like i kind of like the moments when it's like you either like it's an inflection point right where it's like i could give up and i know what my life might look like i'll go back home i've got to go pick up training again. I've got to go do all the stuff. Or I can fucking like pull some strength out of myself and like crush it here. And I think that I was looking for an opportunity to show him what I was capable of because I think also like Alex didn't trust me fully, I think to that

Starting point is 00:43:57 extent yet. Like in terms of like decisions, you know, like my input, nothing at that point. And I felt like I want to show him like I'm really fucking capable. And I remember thinking that to myself like he doesn't understand. Like I'm not. I get it. Like I can do this. And I think, I looked at it as like, I want to show him what I'm really made of. And so it worked. Yeah. And if I didn't, then I would have still made a lot of money. So it's fine.

Starting point is 00:44:21 Sure. Yes. I mean, when you came back, I think the dynamic, the relationship was just, it was different. It was better. It was just like,

Starting point is 00:44:27 all right. Like game recognized game. Like, all right, what do you think about this? You know, so it was much more like, before that it was very much like,

Starting point is 00:44:33 this is what we're going to do? This is the plan. And after that, it started being like, what do you think about this? This is where I'm, this is where I'm at, like,

Starting point is 00:44:42 much more of a partnership. So it was a big aha moment basically. Totally. That one was. Yeah. Whatever happened to the guy who stole the money? Were there any red flags that led up? How much money did you see?

Starting point is 00:44:51 So many red flags. Yeah. Can you say? Oh, I mean, so I'll tell you what I was told, which was that I, you know, I confront him was like, hey, man, like, you just drained the bank account, which is where I put all my savings to start this new thing together. And so he had said, hey, like, well, I'll give the, the 60 second story was, I was launching all these gyms, we were filling him up.

Starting point is 00:45:09 And he was like, dude, you're leaving all this money on the table. And me being the distrable. and me being the distracted entrepreneur that I was, I was like, yeah, I'm leaving all this money on the table. I should be owning all these gyms that I'm launching. He's like, dude, you launch a new gym every month, and I'll just come behind you, and I'll staff it up and run it,

Starting point is 00:45:21 and that way, and we'll just split it 50-50. And I was like, cool, I don't want to run them. Like, I'll just keep launching them in opening him. So that was the deal. But what ended up happening? So I launched this gym, we murder the launch. Like, 370-something people signed up, which is really big for, like, a gym launch.

Starting point is 00:45:37 And I was like, all right, man, like, you ready to run the thing? He was like, oh, no, I've got my, location you handle that one and I was like whoa no no no no no like I already had my five locations like this is not my game anymore I'm not running gyms anymore like I already I've graduated from that like I'm not doing this um and so we had some stickiness and then I woke up one day and all the money from that gym that I'd done 300 plus and each ones of those is like six you know five six hundred dollars times three 70 so there's a good amount of money in the account plus the money that I'd put in to like open it get things going etc

Starting point is 00:46:08 it was all like gone and I was like dude with that he's like I know you've been skimming I was like what he's like I'm just taking my half he's like because I know you like you have already taken out the other half I was like dude I know I haven't I haven't and so I went to a coach and the coach was like just show him the math he's like just print out the bank statements and go line by line I was like okay so I printed out the bank make statements and I went line by line and highlight everything and I was like, hey, let's meet up. And he was like, oh, I don't want to see that. And as soon as he didn't want to look at the math, that's when I knew that I had been played.

Starting point is 00:46:50 And so at that point, and the crazy part is like, were there red flags? He'd already been indicted for fraud. I already knew this. And he was like, it was a misunderstanding. And I believed him. And that's one of those like, you know, the saying, when experience meets money and money meets experience, the experience, the experience gets the money and the money gets the experience. that was very much my

Starting point is 00:47:09 I got the experience so lesson learned but the thing that like I would say as a kudos for Layla is that Layla has like Layla's people picker is it's dead on like I since we've been together like in a lot of the reasons that

Starting point is 00:47:25 my you know my business has grown since meeting Layla versus before is that she's such a good judge of character like I trust people more easily and I tend to be overly giving. And when I met Layla, it was like this kind of unit. I needed the yang. You know what I mean? I needed someone to balance my like over optimism, over trust. Like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:47:48 let's do something. I need someone to be like, do you see him like re-hesday there? She's like, that was off. I'm really curious about that. What do you look for? Is it's a subconscious? Is it a feeling you get? What red flags stand out the most to you? I honestly don't know. I mean, It's just like instinctual. I guess it's different with every person. Like with that guy, it was like the moment I met him. I was like he just seems like a crook. Like, and you also have to look at like situational context, which is Alex is when I met Alex and I was like, this is a very bright guy who is surrounded by people that are taking advantage of him who don't necessarily mean that.

Starting point is 00:48:25 They don't mean to take advantage of him, but they can't help it because he's smarter than them and he's better than them. And so they're all getting the better end of the deal. Like he's doing more work and he's smarter than them, bringing more to the table. And it was really obvious to me. And I remember thinking like, because I've always considered like a lot of the, I've been a great supporter for people. And so I saw that and I was like, he just needs somebody that like really believes in him and like can advocate for him. Like rather than him doing that for other people. And so seeing that guy and like meeting him, I think I just didn't trust.

Starting point is 00:48:55 I don't know. I have no idea what it is honestly. I wish, I can't put words to it because I don't know what it is. But like honestly, it might be because I pride myself on my character. So like my father has insanely good character. I've always pride of myself wrong. Like I can't be the smartest person in the room, but like I can have really great character. And so I look for that in people more than anything, more than like smarts, more than intelligence, like anything.

Starting point is 00:49:18 I look at character. And so I think it's just if you look at something all day, you hire for it, you filter your friends for it. You don't talk to family because of it. Like it's just forefront of mind. I mean, I was just going to add that like I, a lot, I had every one of the businesses, I had started up to that point, except for my very first gym, which I very quickly brought partners into. I always had this fear of doing it on my own, right? So I always just wanted someone there.

Starting point is 00:49:46 And when I look back on my business trajectory, like all the businesses that I just did on my own, I made a ton of money. And all the ones that I partnered on, I made not a lot of money and was terrible. And so, like, you know, if you go in 10 relationships and everyone's terrible, it's like it might be you. So I might have been a bad partner, which is very possible. or pick bad partners or a combination of those things. But I think when Layla and I partnered up, I trusted Layla. And I actually automatically, even in the first, you know,

Starting point is 00:50:14 when I went to go travel like in the very beginning to go try this gym launch thing out, I gave her all my bank account passwords. I told her to go pick up the cash from all my facilities every week. And so she would be handling like 11 grand every week and just cash that she would just like pick up from all the, she'd just drive around and pick up envelopes of like hundreds and whatever. and she was just, you know, and she was just depositing him for me because she was like, this guy's ridiculous. And to be fair, it is kind of ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:50:38 But, like, I just felt like I could trust her. Yeah. Did you ever get sketched out that you're picking up envelopes of cash and depositing them on Alex's behalf? Like, that could have been a thing where, like, now you take the fall for it? No, I don't think so. I think I thought more that it was ridiculous. I'm like, why would you get this to me? Like, you've known me for a week.

Starting point is 00:50:56 Like, that's not a smart idea. And he was like, I just know I can trust you. And I, to myself, I'm like, well, obviously you can trust me. But, like, how do you? know, you know, it's only been a week. So you kind of lucked out in a sense of like you had kind of been taken advantage of by other partners time and time again. And then just one random time, you overstrusted another person like you had in the past,

Starting point is 00:51:13 but it had been the right person. And it helped you. Just for the record, like, I don't, I wish no ill intent. And even the guy that took everything like, I hope he's doing better. And I think a lot of those partnerships that didn't work is not like, A, I wouldn't even describe it as them. I mean, Lela uses stronger language because she was on the outside. But on the inside, like, I don't think anyone had malicious intent.

Starting point is 00:51:35 I think that everyone came with skill sets. And I think that I tended to have more money-making skill sets, you know, at the time. And it worked out that way. But like, I wish all those people, you know, positive success, you know, since then. No question. When you talk about money-making skill sets, like, what exactly were those skill sets that were your money-making ones? Was it like business acumen, just raw intelligence? Was it like experience?

Starting point is 00:51:57 I knew how to market. I knew how to sell. It was marketing and selling. In the beginning, I mean, that's what you need. You got to know how to market. You got to know how to sell. Because if you can't do that, then there's no point. And like, you can't get people to try your thing unless you get someone to buy it.

Starting point is 00:52:09 And so it's like that's the first thing you need is you need to learn how to promote and you learn how to sell. After that, by all means, fix the product, get it better, improve it, et cetera. And then that becomes a much stronger force. But in the beginning, you've got to learn how to promote. And what were the biggest contributors to that exact money making skill set, the marketing and selling? Was it reading or experience?

Starting point is 00:52:27 I mean, it was, I would go to, I went to a workshop in 2013. and the guy taught Facebook ads in a weekend. And so I learned how to run Facebook ads. And I was like, all right, I can't figure this. It wasn't as simple as that. No,

Starting point is 00:52:38 I mean, it was, it was as simple as that. Really? I went there and he was like, here's where you run an ad and I was like, okay. What year was this?

Starting point is 00:52:44 2013. That's why when no one was doing Facebook ads. Yeah, I was so early. Yeah, I've been very, like, there have been a lot of things,

Starting point is 00:52:51 like, I've been very lucky. You know what I mean? Like, I'm at Layla. There are not many Lailas. Like, I recognize.

Starting point is 00:52:57 There are not many girls who are Persian, who are into fitness, who love business, who want to just work all the time and build something epic. A lot of girls will say that because they want you to like them and be with them. But they don't actually want that because then they're always like, hey, you've worked enough. Like let's go do this thing. Like if I'm working or if I'm like editing the book and it's like four days straight, it is what it is. Like this is my life. This is what I love doing. And we just made it work that way.

Starting point is 00:53:27 But like, anyways, all that to say, like, I've been very lucky in that way. And I was lucky at that, you know, for that workshop, which was only recommended to me by chance by another guy that I was supposed to partner with. And he backed out the night before, which is why I got the full gym rather than a 50-50 split on my first one. Like, there's a lot of things that I lucked out on. And so, like, you know, I was, you know, my dad's a doctor. Like, I was lucky with that. I, you know, like, there's a lot of things that I look out on. It's interesting.

Starting point is 00:53:50 I don't picture you as someone nor you really who necessarily believes in luck. So it's interesting you say that. I think I can be put into a condition that has a higher likelihood of a probable, like a positive outcome for sure. If I were born in Bangladesh, like same everything, the likelihood that I'd be here significantly lower. Possible, yes, likely, significantly less likely. What do you think about that, Layla?

Starting point is 00:54:12 I think there's just things that you can't control. And so it's like by happenstance, it's like handed to you. Yeah. And so like I think about, we talk about meeting each other. Because people are like, how do we get a relationship like yours? I'm like, I don't know. No, like I don't have an answer because I think we're really lucky to have met each other. And I don't think that this relationship dynamic would work for a lot of other people that either of us would have met.

Starting point is 00:54:35 So. Nor is it common. It's like, how could we control to make that circumstance happen? You can't really. Like you can, you know, try and it's a numbers game and all that. But like think how many other people I know because they send me screenshots are trying to find their Alex and Layla on Bumble. And they can't. And so it's like, there's things like that that just happen.

Starting point is 00:54:51 And you're like, you just got to take the card you're dealt, you know, and be grateful for it. It's interesting because I think that like the single great, the single most important decision that you make of all the schism in life is who you spend your life with, like as your significant other. And if you look at all the stats in terms of amount of time spent with people, like time spent with family basically drops off at 25. Like it's very, very low after that.

Starting point is 00:55:12 Time spent with siblings, same thing. Time spent with friends starts dropping off at like 30 pretty aggressively. And then the two that increase a lot for the majority of your life are time spent with spouse is number one. and then in between those is time spent with coworkers. So your coworkers matter way more than your friends do in terms of hours per day. So like where you work is actually incredibly important for your overall, like your subjective well-being.

Starting point is 00:55:35 But like there's one person that you're going to spend the rest of your life with if you believe in marriage. And like the strength of the relationship you have with your significant other has a 0.71 correlation to your overall subject well-being. So more than anything, how well you get along with the person you spend all your time with, which makes sense. You spend the majority of your time with this person. And so I think that if there's ever something to be obsessive over, it would be that. You saw that chart on Twitter, huh?

Starting point is 00:55:59 Which? The chart, the X and Y, and then you have, it was a bunch of line graphs. Who posted that? Seheel Bloom. What is that? It was this thing that I saw on Twitter and basically was just, obviously, X and Y. And then you had a line at its age. And then each different line had a different color showing, you know, different groups of people.

Starting point is 00:56:17 You would spend your time with children, like you said, coworkers, spouse. and it shows over time, and they obviously all average up to 100 on the Y axis, and it just shows the lines change over time. It's great account. Go follow him. Yeah. Yeah, he's got great stuff.

Starting point is 00:56:30 And so it just further proves the, like, at least for me, you know what I mean? Like, Caleb's here and he knows, but like I will buy 60 pairs of shorts and wear all of them to figure out which one is the one that I like the most. I'll buy 40 pairs of barefoot shoes to figure out the one that I like the most.

Starting point is 00:56:47 Like, I do that with everything. Can you say, because everyone was asking, the last time you came on the podcast. No, I won't. You will not say the company. They haven't responded to my DM. No, I'm not. Really?

Starting point is 00:56:56 Is there any way we can somehow put them in touch with you? Like I feel like, I'll, I'll, I'll see. If we say it publicly, people will bombard them. They don't happen. You shout them out once and everyone, the mob will go. I already did. I did one time. You shouted them out?

Starting point is 00:57:09 Yeah, I did. They did. They did, they do respond. And where could people find it? What? They can find it on my Instagram and, and YouTube shorts. It's on this. Got it lower.

Starting point is 00:57:20 Okay. So I want to ask just a general relationship question. So I believe that there are mainly three pillars to a successful relationship, such as shared values, shared interests, and just raw chemistry, right? I think those are the three things. As long as you can check those three boxes, everything else, obviously it matters to some extent, but those are the main three boxes you need to check to make sure your partner is a viable one. I swap with one of, I'd swap one of them out.

Starting point is 00:57:45 Which one? So chemistry, out swap, because that's going to disappear in terms of like, literally your chemical soup and your brain goes back to normal after two years. So like that, that feeling goes away. And so what I would swap with that is something long term, which is mission, which is do you want to do the same thing on Earth? So it's like shared mission, values is how you get, so do you want to go to the same place, values is how you get there and interest is stuff you do along the way. Tony Robbins talks about it a lot, but you can create chemistry. In fact, we've talked about it a ton because we have to manage our chemistry because of how much we work together.

Starting point is 00:58:16 Yeah. How do you do that? Space. How do you create space? So many ways. You guys go on like independent vacations? Well, I think, no. No. No. You're probably like, I think there's people every, every year. I think there's a couple different houses.

Starting point is 00:58:28 You go to Canada. I'm going to Mexico. We'll meet back in the U.S. No, I mean, I think some of it's physical space, which is like, you know, we technically work together all day, right? But we don't. We stay in separate areas of the house. We work on different things.

Starting point is 00:58:39 Like we're very segmented in terms of our responsibilities set in terms of what we do in the business and outside. And then on the other side of that, it's being able to, switch hats, which is there's Alex and Layla that work together and you see in the public eye. And then there's Alex and Layla that are themselves in their condo when nobody's their husband and wife. And so it's being able to switch between those two dynamics because if you constantly keep on the work hat, then like there's no chemistry. You know what I mean? Because what happens is you're not, it's the side of you that provokes chemistry in the person like for a woman, right? For me,

Starting point is 00:59:15 it's like, am I being feminine? I'm playful and funny and, you know, lighthearted. Well, it's like at work, I'm not going to be those things because it's more of like a masculine energy at work where you're like driving things forward making decisions like very decisive outspoken. So for me it's been learning how to swap the hats and I think we've both worked on that a lot over the years. So now it feels easy. I mean now it feels like the moment people leave like we talk in a different voice. Yeah. Like our manners. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:42 I don't even think I can do it. I do it. I do a little bit. Yeah. Like a little playful. I've done that. It's cool. You know, Alex has done it.

Starting point is 00:59:51 Of course. No, I think the things that's improved is that we've got our speed to be able to change gears is improved. So what used to maybe take like an hour or two hours to wind down like to switch gears is now like we can do it in almost an instant. And so that's been like being able to shift energy is really like the crux of it. Like you can feel like right now you have business Alex and Layla. Like this is like we can talk objectively about the marriage, but this isn't like our relationship dynamic. You know what I mean? This is our work dynamic because this is work, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:00:22 For us, you know what I mean? But when we are, when we're, you know, at home alone, like, we're pretty playful. You know what I mean? Like, we tell a lot of jokes. Like, we'll, we'll fuck with each other a lot. Like, there's a lot of practical life and stuff. Just like. We're really funny.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Yeah, just a lot of goofy. Like, we just, yeah, we're pretty goofy. And we're, it's incredibly lighthearted, which is a strong juxtapose against probably what most people see, which is just like hard charging, incredibly stoic-ish. Work hard, play hard. Business, yeah. But what if something's going on with the business between you two? Maybe a disagreement that you have on that.

Starting point is 01:00:57 How does that not bleed over and affect that part? We've had disagreements and we've walked out the door and looked at each other and just said, I love you. And then we just move on to like we're not in this disagreement currently. And being in a disagreement and like, again, I think we're very fortunate with this because so as a reminder to the audience, like we pretty much. much started doing business together day one. And so like we've only had a business dynamic. If anything, we had to work harder on the relationships are the romantic side than the business side.

Starting point is 01:01:25 So like business came natural to us. Like it was like a first language for us and then we learned the romance that, which is why she was saying like you can create chemistry. Like you can do it. Like you just do the things and like the chemistry's there. With disagreements, we, they're short lived. And a lot of times like I think we're pretty good at compartmentalizing it. Like if we disagree about something, we know that we are aligned with the same mission. We know we're aligned with the same values. And so the only thing that we will disagree about is like the best way to get there. And a lot of times I think both of us are like, is this a hill you're going to die on? And neither of us really die on many hills. And so it's like, if we do, it's really important.

Starting point is 01:02:01 It's shared probably. Yeah. And one of the rules that we had, which is one of the most important rules we had in the very beginning of our relationship was we had this like guru or whatever like talk to us. And he was like, I don't know what that was. Yeah, I don't know what it was. but like the advice was good. And he said, if you don't agree on something, don't move forward. And for whatever reason,

Starting point is 01:02:22 it struck us in the moment and we have stuck to that, which is like, and usually it's like, Alex wants to do something and Layla's like, I'm not sure. And because of the positive reinforcement

Starting point is 01:02:31 that I've had earlier on in our relationship from like most times when I was like, I'm going to do this thing. She was like, I don't think that's a good idea and I did it anyways.

Starting point is 01:02:38 Most times those things blew up. And so she has a very good track record for that. And so now we have like a very, like we like to joke that like, if I weren't here, we wouldn't have a business, but if Layla were not here, I would have a hundred and also not have a business. And so it's like, it's the drawbridge. It's the tension between these two extremes, which is where I think the magic happens for us. Interesting. I've heard like if it's not a hell

Starting point is 01:02:59 yes, then it's just a no. Well, from a deal perspective, absolutely. But like from a like, which way, like we're agreed on this direction. We're agreed on this strategy. Like, how are we tactically going to execute that? Like there's a million permutations you can have. And so like, if we don't agree, Because I get this question something. We're like, well, somebody's got to have veto right. Right. So if you're at a standstill, we just don't, like, I don't think that's real. Like if you're in a business and you disagree, you keep talking about it until you agree.

Starting point is 01:03:30 Like it just, you keep beating the idea and thinking about upsides and downsides and risk, et cetera, exposure. And then you're like, I see where you're coming from. Let's emphasize that, you know, like you just keep solving for it. And I think being open and not taking it personally, especially we're in the business setting, because we both know because we've done this enough times that like we both just want to win. And so it's just like how we both have 100% alignment. So just like we don't take it personal. How do you keep the emotions out of it?

Starting point is 01:03:55 I think that we are able to admit when we are emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So if I'm, if we're in a some kind of disagreement, I'll be like, listen, I'm just too stressed with this. Like I need to go on a walk or something and then let's talk about it later. Or if Alex, he might be like, I'm too angry.

Starting point is 01:04:09 Like let's, I'm going to go do something and we'll talk about it later. So I think we usually are pretty self-aware of like if we're in an emotional state and if we are, we try to wait until we're not to then come back and talk about it then. I think it's a really big point is that like we don't, we actively avoid discussion when there's emotional charge. It's just not productive. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:29 And even sometimes like I mean, I as a woman, it's like I have to catch myself and be like, oh, I'm acting crazy right now. I'm going to go. And he's like, and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go because I'm acting like crazy bitch. and like I can now catch myself within like two minutes like we'll be in a conversation and it's like if I can feel that I'm just being emotional I'm like oh so sorry crazy going leaving now exiting myself from the room for you that has to be so nice that has to be incredible yeah yeah yeah it's great I mean I think people should be with people who are reasonable but now do you get emotional too

Starting point is 01:05:00 I get angry okay yeah I get angry um and so for me it's like I have to cool off like just like I can just feel like it's not like I'm an outburst type guy but like I got I got I I get very cold and I get incredibly like cutting and sharp with like, you're wrong. Like I am right and you just don't see it yet because I have to explain this to you in very slow term so that you can catch up. That's how I will be when I'm angry. And it's not good. It's not good for the team, you know, et cetera.

Starting point is 01:05:28 And so when I get in that in that zone, I can usually feel it. And then I'm like, I need like, sometimes it takes, you know, it takes training. You know, like you do it. And then I'll go on a 45 minute, you know, this is yours. ago, you know what I mean, ran about something. And she was like, it didn't come across too well. You know, because a lot of times we're team facing. You know, I mean, we're talking to our team. We're talking to, you know, whatever. And so, like, now I think we've gotten faster and faster at, like, just pulling it back, but it's not that we eliminate it. How do you take a step back? Do you just go

Starting point is 01:05:54 in a different room? Do you go do a workout? How do you do that? Really interesting. So, one of the things that we found, this has just worked well for us, is that via text, like, text communication, we are really good. And so, like, it kind of removes, it gives you a little bit more time to say what you're going to say. You know what I mean? There's also a record of it. You know what I mean? And so if we're, honestly, it's like, it's been something that we've done a lot, which is like, if we're in a disagreement, we'll, like, type it out. And typing it out, it gives, it literally gives you delay between when you feel something and when something gets delivered and you get to see it before, like, you don't have the slips of the tongue because you see the words and you're like committing to

Starting point is 01:06:32 them when you send them. And that's been honestly one of the, at least from a tactical perspective, one of the most valuable things that we've done to like diffuse situations. I think it works if you're logical, which we are. We both want to discuss things in a reasonable logical manner. I think if you're really just emotional, you're just going to find a reason as to why texting doesn't work because you can't, because emotion doesn't have a good argument, right? So when you type it out, it doesn't make any sense. I agree with that entirely. One thing that I tell my close friends is that if they're ever feeling extremely emotional, angry, sad, whatever, they should journal. Because the thing is, when you're writing stuff down, let's say your brain is functioning at like 200 words per minute, 300. I don't know what it is,

Starting point is 01:07:09 right? Your hand can only write 40, right? So there's a longer delay from like the emotion that you're feeling and the brain activity to when you're actually writing. You basically have to put more emphasis on each word and more thought into each word. And it comes off as more calculated than emotional. So yeah, it's very therapeutic. It's worked super well for going. Yeah, I mean, I was I think it's that. And I think we've also learned how to, how to disagree with each other more productively and how to manage each other when we're in emotional state. So like if Alex is angry, like back six years ago, I probably made him more angry when I was trying to help him not be angry.

Starting point is 01:07:45 Now I feel like I understand what diffuses Alex. She's really good at defusing him. What diffuses it? She's being really nice. Honestly, a lot of the times it's like I turn into like a cute little ball of fun. She basically turns on her role. like her relationship hat. And then like it,

Starting point is 01:08:03 I, it's like you can't hit a puppy. You know what I mean? Like you can, but like, but like it's a lot harder. Yeah. And so if I'm like in this very like

Starting point is 01:08:12 aggressive, you know what I mean? Like zone and she's just being like really cute and kind of vulnerable. I like it, I defuse really quickly. He can't help a laugh. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:08:23 Or smile or something. I'll just have this wry smile. I'll be like, all right. You know what I mean? Heard. You know what I mean? And then like we kind of go from there.

Starting point is 01:08:29 And like for Layla a lot of times like she just like she just needs like a long hug and being like it's okay. You know what I mean? Like it's totally cool. He gets stressed. Like she gets stressed. Like she gets stressed. I get stressed. And so for me it's like it's okay.

Starting point is 01:08:42 Like you can feel this way and it's totally fine and normal. When was the decision to get married? 11 months after dating after our first date. Yeah. 11 months in. Yeah. It was. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:53 It was. Uh, we had talked about it like a couple times up until then I think. It's more just like. We were like, we looked up one day, and I think people in the business were asking us, they were like, are you guys going to get married? And I was like, I don't know. I'm so young. You know?

Starting point is 01:09:07 She's 23. And then we started talking about it. We're like, interesting. They're all asking us if we're getting married. And we're like, do they feel like it's not stable? Well, that was actually a big point. They were like, job security wise, like we feel weird, you know, committing to this and you guys aren't even committed to each other.

Starting point is 01:09:20 You know what I mean? Like, what happens if you guys break up? And both was like, we just keep doing the same thing. Like, we'll keep running this business. Nobody believes you, though. Yeah, no one believes you. but like as a side note for the dudes who are like considering getting a girl into their into their business like you have to have objectively been willing to pick that girl of all people to do that role. But I think happens more often as guys are like, man, I want to involve my wife in the business who doesn't really like business.

Starting point is 01:09:43 And then they pull them in. They don't give them the respect because maybe it's not warranted because they don't have the acumen for it or whatever. And then they give them kind of a peon role, which that doesn't necessarily breed even more respect so that they can be like quote involved. I think, like, the role has to be the role that you would pick for that person, even if you had no dog in the fight. Like, if you didn't have the relationship, like, if we weren't together, I would still want Layla basically running all the companies because she's great at it. That's why we do well.

Starting point is 01:10:13 Strictly married. Yeah, it's 100% merit. And so, like, we just get the benefit of the fact that, like, we're also married. But, like, skills first, like, the position has to be earned. So do you think the marriage was in a way to satisfy a business partner? Yeah. And so it was the employees. And then so I came back. Well, go ahead.

Starting point is 01:10:31 Yeah. I mean, I, I, yeah, I think it was a mix of thing. I mean, I think it, I wouldn't say the employees are the reason that we got married. I think it was. Yeah. I think it was just like it just felt like it made a lot of sense. I mean, honestly, that's like what we came to is just like this makes a ton of sense. Like we're running a business together. We're romantically involved.

Starting point is 01:10:51 We're building the same together. It looks like it's like blowing up. We're like, it just makes more sense to get married than it doesn't. Did you have a contract? prior to then in terms of what would happen if you guys split like who owns what and who gets what or no well i mean we didn't have much but but but alex did was growing at that point it was growing but i think at that point did we both have 50 50 50 that i can't remember the business was on mine at that point yeah the business was yours at that point yeah i just didn't even you know it's so

Starting point is 01:11:15 weird because like i never even thought about that because like literally what i detest is women who take things from men like when i not i won't tell that but seeing that women are willing to take something from a man rather than start over and like get your like it was just never even in my mind like a possibility you know what i mean like i was like i would rather jump off a cliff than take money from somebody so i actually asked layla to sign a pre-nup because i think i had like 250 grand or something scrolled away um and she was like sure whatever and the fact that she was just like so effortlessly a yes and i had actually asked a former relationship to sign a pre-nup And it was like a big deal and very painful and horrible and whatever.

Starting point is 01:12:02 The fact that she was just like, sure, no problem. When we were on the way to like get it notarized or whatever, I actually just tore it up and threw it out the one. I was like, we're good. You know what I mean? Like you've risked everything at every single point. You like, you chose me and wanted to do this thing together. Like, let's do it.

Starting point is 01:12:16 You know what I mean? And so I, yeah, my proposal, I didn't have a ring. I was just like, I think the actual question was, I think it would make sense if we got married. What do you think? And then she- Here are flowers. like a very Alex thing.

Starting point is 01:12:28 Yeah. And so I handed her flowers and then I delivered that. How much forethought did you give the wedding or the proposal in general? Was it like from start to finish? Was it like a week, a month? Yeah, flowers. I mean, it's funny because like I say what I said earlier. Like it is the most important decision.

Starting point is 01:12:46 But like the, so this is countercultural is that if you look at like the rom-coms, right, that are out there. There's usually like Mr. Wright and then like the old flame from home. right and then they have to like break up with Mr. Wright to be with the old flame but the reason they don't have like sequels for rom-coms is because then you'd have two people who are married and have no reason to be together and so it would be a very boring movie that would just be like a miserable marriage and so I actually think that mr. Wright the one that makes sense on paper that you have all the logical reasons to be together is the person that Hollywood should be getting people to get married to because when the chemistry fades you need to have rational reasons to be with that person

Starting point is 01:13:23 because like when bad days come and they will you need to still be like this makes sense, right? It still makes sense. When it doesn't make sense and you don't have the feeling, it's tough. Right? And so I remember I was listing it out because when we were like in this one marriage discussion, I was just like, I mean, you have the cultural background, which is just a bonus. Like I never looked for like a Persian girl, but like the fact that she was was great. So she understood kind of of the cultural background of my whole family and whatnot. She loved business, which was awesome. And she loved fitness and like being active and eating healthy and working out and like that was pretty much the only three things that like were interesting or you know and she was kind right and like trustworthy

Starting point is 01:14:03 and she had character and so i was like i don't i didn't see a world where there was a high likelihood that i would find somebody else that had all those things and had already sacrificed all these things to be you know to do this thing and it's shown efficacy at being good at it i was like i just feel like it make sense if we get married. And she was like, yeah. And so she said yes. And then we literally, I was like, I guess I need to get you a ring. So we'd got in the car, drove the jewelry store, bought a ring. We both liked the same one. So she got that. Drove back, called the pastor. And I was like, when are you free? And he was like, this Wednesday? He's like, are you sure? This is fast. And we're like, yeah, we're good. And so the whole week leading up, it was six days from then

Starting point is 01:14:40 until we got married. And she was like, who's going to chicken out? And it was crazy is that I'd backed out of a wedding, which was really hard, by the way. Super hard. Yeah, expectations. both sides like invites on this stuff um but i thought i was like i thought that i had commitment issues but it was just that in my gut i knew it was the right person and i think that was the like that's why i committed issues it's like it's just a lot of people haven't found the right person like if you like if you're like not if you don't know you know kind of thing and so it just made sense to do it and so then we got married in the back of a church on a wednesday night um with no family nothing there was like some local friends who showed up, like five, six people, and that was it.

Starting point is 01:15:19 What caused you to walk away the first time? Especially so late in the process. I think it was kind of what you'd consider like the traditional Hollywood relationship of like the hot and the cold, the in, you're out, you're up, then you're down. Like, just so much emotional like drama and like chemicals and just all, you know, like all of that, very like intoxicating, very heavy relationship. Distracted too. And, you know, fundamentally, like, I would say there was tons of chemistry, but like none of, like a lot of the other stuff we didn't share.

Starting point is 01:15:51 So, like, we had different worldviews. We had different missions for our lives personally. And we didn't really have the same interests. So all we had was chemistry. And so that's why it made it so hard because you have opposite to tract and you have this like, like, well, if you don't like this, you don't like this. You don't like this whole thing. And like, the relationship that I had with Layla was literally the exact opposite of that. It was just like, everything made sense.

Starting point is 01:16:13 It was like, this is what I think. It's like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. And to someone that's been dating someone else for, let's say, a year or two, maybe three years, how do they know to make that final, like, you know, to tie the ribbon to make sure, okay, you are going to be my spouse? What is the deciding factoring that to someone who's been dating someone for a while? I mean, I think, I don't think that there is a deciding factor in the, in this context of,

Starting point is 01:16:34 I don't think everyone has to get married. You know what I mean? Like, I think we want to get married. And like, we both see ourselves, like, being with somebody, like, we would like to have this marriage for the rest of our lives. Like that's something that we've communicated to each other. But I think a lot of people don't want that. And so I think a lot of people should take one step back and think, like, do I even want

Starting point is 01:16:53 marriage? And if so, what's the purpose? Because I think that it's going to become less and less popular, in my opinion. And there's a lot of people that doesn't really make sense for. Like, it really doesn't have a lot of benefits. Particularly, like, you look at like the decline on birth rates and stuff, like if you're not going to have kids. Like, if you don't have kids, you don't share a business together.

Starting point is 01:17:12 You don't share a lot of your lives together. Like, I don't really understand why someone would get married. How was it for your family? Because I know with the Persian culture, it's very close. So how is it having a wedding and not having friends, cousins, fifth cousins, you know, uncles, aunts, like everybody there? Well, we did that on purpose because we didn't want that. Yeah, we didn't want that, A.

Starting point is 01:17:35 B, like, the whole concept of a wedding to me was very like, that never made sense to me. Like, why are we going to spend 50 grand, everything marked up 500% just to have everyone else come there and see everyone for five seconds? Like that just didn't make sense to me. And so, like, we worked the day that we got married and we worked the next day. We didn't take a honeymoon. It was just like you went to the thing, signed the papers. And we still haven't taken a honeymoon.

Starting point is 01:17:59 We haven't done any of that stuff. But we didn't tell our parents because we knew that they would be against it. We knew they'd be like, you're moving too fast. This is too extreme. And like, that's how my dad was like, you're always so extreme. You always go so all in on stuff. And, I mean, her dad was, you know, not a fan of me earlier on. Not that he wasn't a fan.

Starting point is 01:18:16 Like, he would have said it was fast. And he would have said, I think. Same thing. Just too fast. You guys are young. What are you doing? This business thing. It's confusing.

Starting point is 01:18:23 Slow down. And now they're all. Oh, yeah. My dad loves Alex. Yeah. Now, what about for you growing up? Did you have that vision of having that big wedding and that giant proposal? No.

Starting point is 01:18:35 I didn't. I just always thought it was so fake. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, what's the point? Like, I don't want to spend all that money on a wedding. Like that was always my thought. It was like, why spend all that money on a wedding when like you should be spending that money on the rest of your life being married to this person?

Starting point is 01:18:51 Like if we put that much effort into the marriage, imagine how much better our lives would be. But we put all this effort into a wedding. And so that's always how I looked at it. And I think I always just wanted it to be more private. You know, I'm like, I don't, I'm not somebody who like loves a ton of attention. So I think the idea of also like having a wedding and being in front doing all and stuff. Like that's not comfortable to me.

Starting point is 01:19:08 I think I just always wanted to be like, it should be about us, not about everybody else. You know what I mean? And it's like I always thought like it seems like weddings are way more about appeasing other people rather than doing what is authentic to you. And what's authentic to me has never been a huge wedding. It's been a meaningful marriage that is something that's, you know, important to me. And so I like the way that we did it because it was just us. And it was in like, it was a reflection of the rest of our.

Starting point is 01:19:38 our lives and who each of us are. You know, like, we don't like doing things like everybody else. And because of that, like, we just do things around the way. Yeah. And I had, you know, just because I have experienced proposing twice, the first time I was, you know, I was asked by the family, they're like, so what's the plan? Because I, you know, told them I was going to do it or whatever. I went to like the more normal traditional path.

Starting point is 01:19:58 And I was like, I just was planning on just asking her at like the grocery store or something because that's like real life. You know what I'm asking to do? not some big fanfare. And they're like, that's because you're being selfish and you're not thinking about her and you need to do something that she's going to be really excited about.

Starting point is 01:20:13 So I did this whole big fanfare and it felt inauthentic to me because I'm like, this is just not my vibe. You know what I mean? Like, this is me. Like this is how I am. And so like the engagement or the proposal that I had with Layla

Starting point is 01:20:24 of me just being like, I think it would make sense we got married and like here's why. Like, that's me. Like that's me. And if I had to not be myself in what would be considered a very memorable, pivotal moment

Starting point is 01:20:35 of the relationship like, I think that was for me a little bit of a precursor to why it ultimately didn't end up working out. I have nothing but love her and we never ever been with huge seasons of my life. But like, I just long term, I don't think it made sense. But one of the things that Layla and I did that I think was really cool was that in the very beginning of our marriage, we did a lot of,

Starting point is 01:20:56 we went through like courses and workshops on divorced and at-risk marriages. So we started going through all these workshops of people who were like trying to figure out their marriage. and we learned a ton of stuff about like how to communicate and like expectation setting and just a lot of really interesting things. And I think it served as well. So like highly recommend going through like divorce and like crisis marriage counseling type stuff. What did you learn from that? I think one fundamental thing that has to be learned in order to have a productive relationship with somebody of the opposite sex is like how men and women are different. Like how our brains work differently, how we think differently, how we receive love and affection differently.

Starting point is 01:21:36 or respect. And I think that that teaches you how you can't treat your partner like you want to be treated. You have to learn to treat your partner like they want to be treated. And I think that that's fundamentally hard to learn when you're not of the same sex. So it's like you have to learn like, how does a guy want to be treated? How does a guy receive love? How does a woman want to be treated? How does a woman receive love?

Starting point is 01:21:56 And I think that was a huge piece of it along with understanding like the kind of protection mechanisms that we had each built up along the way that had. created walls between us. And I think that those walls took a couple of years to probably come down, maybe two or three. Because I know for myself, like, over the years, like you build up walls that keep you from getting hurt, but they also keep you from getting super close to somebody. And I think everybody has those. It's completely normal.

Starting point is 01:22:24 And you shouldn't wait to find someone to, you know, until those walls are down. I think it's, you learn how to take them down with your partner. And so it's like you become aware of them yourself. And then you explore that with your partner. You talk about it openly, and then you talk about how you're going to work on it. And I think that being able to communicate those few things with each other was huge for us. Like, I used to be very cold, and I wouldn't tell Alex anything that was on my mind. I mean, I was extremely closed off.

Starting point is 01:22:50 And that was really tough for me and for him. And for me, one of the things that I had to work on the most was learning how to just communicate what I was actually thinking and not be so terrified that he would judge me or, you know, leave or mad at me or anything. Because just for some reason, I just never, I always was, like, used to doing things on my own. And so feeling like I could even tell somebody else how I was feeling about anything was, like, so incredibly overwhelming for me. And now it's normal. And I can, you know, if anything, it's like maybe five minutes of me not telling him. But it used to be weeks.

Starting point is 01:23:26 Yeah. What do you think you had to work on? Just great, you know. Not that. I think, I think my temper. It's gotten a lot better. That's a big one. My temper's got a lot better.

Starting point is 01:23:44 Because I think what it was is like your, if Alex would get angry, then Layla would recoil. Yeah, it was like. And then it was not a productive relationship. So you worked a ton on understanding like anger didn't work with me at all. Very true. Like I would just get more aggressive and then like she like she would just shut down. And so I just had to like, I just had to create more space and learn how to like, okay. Like this is what we're going to do.

Starting point is 01:24:08 these are the values. That's why it's like the mission values, interest is so, at least for us, is so important is like, if we're aligned on these things, then it means that all we have, for the most,

Starting point is 01:24:15 nine times out of 10, it's a miscommunication. Like nine times out of 10, it just means like, I took something that you said the way that you probably didn't intend it. So let's just break down what you said and how I took it.

Starting point is 01:24:24 And then she's like, I didn't mean that to disrespect. I was like, well, here's, when you say this, I was like, this is what I hear.

Starting point is 01:24:29 She's like, I did not mean that. And so like, I think over time, like you just know that there are trigger sentences or whatever that I'm like I could probably work on this but it'd be a hell of a lot easier if you just don't say that and I will also concurrently try to work on it if it slips out I think we have so much ability to influence our partners and we have to be careful with that you know what I mean because it's like I only want to encourage Alex

Starting point is 01:24:52 and I'm sure Alex only wants to encourage me but we can say things and not know that we're discouraging the other person just by our behaviors and our actions and is it our full responsibility no, but it was definitely helpful if you know how to positively affect that person rather than negatively. And I think a lot of people in relationships actually negatively impact their partners more than they positively do. And that's why people break up because if they look at that area of their life and many other areas, they're negatively impacted once they get with that person. You know, it's like they look at the time they got in the relationship. It's like health, wealth, all these friends, everything. And it's like it all goes down versus, you know, for us, it all went up.

Starting point is 01:25:26 I had a mentor. So you asked the question earlier about like, how do you? you know if it's like the right person. I don't think there's like a one fits all, but I asked this to a coach that I had at the time who was kind of like basically helping me deal with the anxiety that I was going through and all that stuff was happening. And he was like, just look at your stats. That's what he told me.

Starting point is 01:25:44 He's like, just look at your stats. He's like, how are you fitness wise? I was like, is it up or down being with her? I was like, well, she goes to the gym all the time. She like does all the meal prep. Like it's up. I'm definitely like better because she's there. He's like, all right.

Starting point is 01:25:56 What about the business stuff? I was like, well, I was like, well she makes me money and he was like has any other girl made you money i was like no and he's like well that's a plus right and i was like okay and so you know we just went down the line of like what are the things that no matter most to me and like are they pluses or minuses and all of them were up my stats were up since i've been with layland i never like really thought through that and i was like oh like this logically like i'm better for being with her and so it was also like how's your headspace are you more you know what i mean you know like you feel like you're becoming a better version of you or worse

Starting point is 01:26:26 version of you. Because like there's some people who have partnerships, like that's how we see it, like spouse partnerships that like all they do is emphasize the worst character traits of you. It's like if your partner is always like, like, no, let's stay in or let's drink or let's, you know, not to say that these things are bad in small doses, but like if everything you have is always like decreasing all your stats to be with this person, like long term for people who are growth oriented, which not that many people are. But for people who are growth oriented, I think having somebody who holds you to a higher standard, like I know that Lela has. has extremely high expectations of me.

Starting point is 01:26:58 And I have very high expectations of her. And we just always want to exceed one another's expectations as the bar continues to rise. Because as you get better, so too do your alternatives by like other people who you attract are better quality. And so we both want to be in like, you think about this way, a voluntary relationship. Like of all the people, I still want to be with you. And that like, because what happens a lot of people, one person grows and the other person doesn't.

Starting point is 01:27:23 And like, it's just like if one person's growing and they both. have to grow. Yeah. I don't think it's going to work long term. Yeah. Well, I think if one person is growing, the other's not,

Starting point is 01:27:31 the other would be intimidated by that person growing and then fearing that that person might leave. Yeah. Maybe that's a reason why they wouldn't want the other person to grow. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:40 And they seek to control them in some way. Yeah. And they manipulate and they subvert, you know, not good. So how do you think the dynamic has changed before and after marriage for you guys? It seems like on paper,

Starting point is 01:27:52 just on the surface, like nothing has changed besides it's a legal standing, but is there a dynamic that's maybe different now? I would say the one thing that's really weird is when we got married. Like, you know, before you're married, you still have, like, these little thoughts in the back of your head about, like, other people that were around. Like, you still think about those people. Like, you still think about some of those exes that you, like, got back together with.

Starting point is 01:28:13 And you're like, maybe. And there's, you know what it is? You have possibility. So there's, like, a lot of possibility of what your future could look like. Even though you're with this person, but you're not married yet. It's like, there's still a lot of possibility. So you see a lot of alternative futures for yourself. When you get married, all of that noise in your head just goes away.

Starting point is 01:28:32 And it's like possibility is like it's gone and you're very certain about what your future is going to look like. So there's less possibility, right? Because you know, you're with one person now. But then you're very certain about what everything's going to look like going forward. And so it's like all that ancillary noise and like thinking about other people and dating and all that. It's just gone. So this is like a fun like mini segue. way, but Layla had a bunch of dudes who were always hollering, right? And like, even on like her

Starting point is 01:29:00 birthday, I think she got like two gifts from other dudes. You know what I mean? And we were like together. And I was like, you know that the, she's like, they're like, they're just friends. And I was like, they are not friends. I was like, they were trying to fuck you. Like, and she was like, no, they're just friends. I was like, guys are not going to be friends with girls to be friends with them. I was like, if they want to have a friend, they'll go find a guy. And they'll be like, why are they gonna go pretend to be interested in what you're like, that's not what it is. And so we had, this was like an ongoing, like not in a malicious way, but it was like almost like a joke throughout like the early days before we got married. The day she changed her marital status, all of them befriended her.

Starting point is 01:29:40 And I was like, just saying, you know what I mean? Defriended, unfollowed. Yeah. Oh, they unfollowed. What was that like for you going? I mean, I thought it was pretty funny. You know, I was like, really? This whole time like eight years?

Starting point is 01:29:54 You know, like, oh, yeah. Like, really not, friends? What's the term? There's a term on Reddit. They call them beta male orbiters. That's funny. Right? It's what it was.

Starting point is 01:30:06 It was just like, oh, you're so great, awesome stuff, like whatever, like mutual comments. You know what I mean? To like, whatever. And I was like, these guys are not your friends. Like, they're just, you know what I mean? They're planting seeds and hoping someday that it'll sprout. Yeah, I thought it was funny because I just, I've always been like super naive. Like there's so many times where I end up on date and I was like, this is a date?

Starting point is 01:30:26 And I thought you just said you wanted to grab coffee. Like, yeah, like a date. I'm like, that's a date? I thought you would say it's a date, you know? So I was just always pretty aloof. And, uh, yeah, that was pretty funny. I think that's a very common dynamic of relationships between guys and girls. Even me like growing up in high school, I don't think it's necessarily impossible for guys and girls to be friends.

Starting point is 01:30:44 But I do think more often than not, there has to be some sort of hidden motive there. And as upsetting as it is to say. Yeah. Maybe like 20% of friends. friendships could be genuine. Yeah. Maybe 80% like the majority you're probably not.

Starting point is 01:30:58 Yeah, I would say it's possible. You think 90%? I'm, look, this is just my personal anecdotal experience, you know? Like I think that's tough. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:09 Yeah. And it's not just you. It's just girls in general. They can be so, they can be oblivious to that stuff. And that's just, I did not have friend girls. Like, I barely had friends.

Starting point is 01:31:19 So like, let alone, like if I'm going to actually hang out with anyone's going to be a dude. Like I'm, you know, like if I actually, just want to like chill and relax. If you were to give a ratio, what would you say?

Starting point is 01:31:27 I would say 85. I'll meet in the middle here. 85, 15, 15% would be January. Sure, I'll do, 85 is pretty good. 85. What would you give it? That sounds about right. I mean, for me, and to be fair,

Starting point is 01:31:39 probably, and I want to be clear, there are probably some guys who somehow managed to do it. Me personally, I was never a guy friend, which is why her comment was so funny to me. Because I was like, never once in my entire life. I'm also a very clear communicator. So I was like,

Starting point is 01:31:56 here are my intentions with you. Like, they are not, they're not pure in nature. You know what I mean? Like, I want to be with you. And that's how,

Starting point is 01:32:03 in no uncertain terms, like, I made my attention, it's clear because I also didn't want the bullshit. So if someone's like, oh, I don't see that way, I'm like, cool.

Starting point is 01:32:09 Like, not trying to be friends. You know what I mean? Like, I can't, the amount of times where I was just like, I'm not friend material. Like,

Starting point is 01:32:16 that is not why I'm here. You know what I mean? It was like, I was just very explicit. And some people like that. Some people didn't. That's fine. Either way, that's me.

Starting point is 01:32:22 So anyways, this is probably, I probably projected a little bit of like my own, like, I don't have friends who are girls onto her. But in this instance, I have been right, which was confirming. But as a guy to shift back to the original question, did things change when you got married? Right. One, obviously all the side convos stop. And then for me, there was actually a huge amount of, like, noise that, like, disappeared. Because, like, especially about when I was single, like, I would,

Starting point is 01:32:48 say the majority of my time and attention went to like girls like and like you know what I mean like in terms of just headspace like texting organizing dates trying to you know what I mean like a lot of my mental bandwidth even if it wasn't hours but like in between time went to that and the moment we got married it was like all of this attention of like something else could happen was just gone and then it was just us and this business and then I mean then it just like it ripped you know what I mean Like that's when we got, like we went from making a few hundred thousand dollars a month to a few million a month, like 12 months later. Like it was just like we were both like, you're in, I'm in, let's go. And that was like, and it was like, we just were both able to attract other people.

Starting point is 01:33:33 You know what I mean? And so just having that security and that knowledge like, you're my person for the foreseeable future. It just washed away all of this attention that came back to focusing on the main thing. So how did your schedules change after that? Because I mean, the business did really well from that aspect. Were you guys just like, all right, now we could just focus? What was that? I think there's a lot of that.

Starting point is 01:33:54 It's kind of like the extra headspace because we're both believers in like split attention. Like even if like that's why we don't like like if you know what you want to do, I'm not a big fan of side hustles because it distracts. You know what I mean? Like it's not. It's just like it's attention. It's shower time. It's drive time that could be that creative energy, that juju, that extra time.

Starting point is 01:34:13 If it were reallocated to the main thing, like it compounds fast. faster, right? Most people just have enough. They spread it and there's like, there's a threshold that you have to get above to beat everybody else, right? Like, the people who are competing against are focused. The guys who are winning are focused. It's very arrogant to think that I can spread my attention to be better than other people who are all in on this one thing. And so one thing all in was, was how we saw it. Yeah, I don't think anything actually changed like in the physical realm. It's really just like mentally. You just don't worry about it. Yeah. And how do you make sure you have enough time for each other in the mix of everything?

Starting point is 01:34:46 that you do. You set time aside? No, God, we've tried that. I hate that shit. They're like date night. Don't talk about work. After X hours, it's relation. We tried that shit. And let me tell you, we were fucking miserable. I hate that shit so much. And I think it's some bullshit that people have to put. If you don't have values that you lead your life by, then you need rules. Like, we don't talk about work on date night. And that is exactly what most people do. But we have values, which is we value our marriage and we value the business, therefore we naturally allocate attention between both of them. And I think that most people aren't led by those values, and that's why they have to default

Starting point is 01:35:26 to those rules. But if you are led by values, then it's not something that you have to put a huge amount of effort towards. It's, hey, it's a dichotomy to manage, right? Which is like the relationship, which is like if you're completely focused on the relationship, then you're distracted from where you're going and your mission in life. But if you're completely aloof from the relationship, then you probably feel a little bit of anxiety because you're feeling like, am I secure, am I not? It's a dichotomy to manage. And I think that

Starting point is 01:35:50 it's just being able to catch yourself, it's like most people swing on a pendulum, right? Where it's like, we're completely obsessed in this relationship or we're completely aloof and distracted elsewhere. It's like, if you can just get to the middle faster, which is where everyone wants to be, which is like, we pay attention to our relationship and to other things in life. It's productive. Then I think that you'll be a lot happier. And so that's what we really try to do, which is like, If I feel like I need time with Alex, I tell Alex that. You know, if Alex feel like he needs time with me, he tells me. If we say that we want to go on a trip, we go on a trip.

Starting point is 01:36:19 You know, I mean, like, it's just being able to use your natural intuition in terms of like, this feels a little off and not judge yourself about it and not judge the situation, not be like, we suck. We're so bad at being married because we haven't done a date in so long. It's like, well, fuck, we've been busy. You want to go on a date, though? You know? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:37 I hate to take a little two-minute intermission, but I drink way too much. much more. Oh, Jack. I'm sorry. You got a phone. You got, I can, I can hold it.

Starting point is 01:36:46 I'm just going to be like antsy. All right, go. Jeez. You got a phone call, Graham. Yeah, but I didn't know I was going to get a phone call.

Starting point is 01:36:55 Jack, you could use this bath. Oh. We're going to hear him take a poop. Yeah, it's like, going to hear like a plunk down. I'll just continue.

Starting point is 01:37:03 Where do you guys feel like you could improve? Or is there any weakness that you have that, that you're working on? In the very beginning of COVID, I think that was like a great season for our marriage. You five extra marriage during 2020.

Starting point is 01:37:14 Yeah, we totally five extra marriage. I think that when we were selling the business, I think was another season where we put more attention to the marriage. I think right now we're putting way more attention to the business like in the last 10 months. And so I think that we just, I think we're really good at acknowledging the seasons that we're in being okay with them. And then and not judging ourselves for it. You know what I mean? And I think all that matters is that you're on the same page. If you are in a season of like, I'm putting all my attention on work, but your spouse is like, I'm putting all my attention on you.

Starting point is 01:37:46 That's when you get resentment, right? And that's when marriages don't work. But we both always agree and we talk about it transparently. Hey, this is a season where we're going all in on work versus, hey, this is a season where it's really nice that we get to enjoy each other more. And I think that's the best way that you can balance it. It's just like being open about it and also just not. I don't think that I think life works. It's like you have health, wealth, relationship, all these things, right?

Starting point is 01:38:09 And if you want to grow one thing, the rest kind of have to go on maintenance. So, like, I would say right now our marriage is probably on maintenance. It was in growth when we were selling the business because we didn't have a business to focus on. It was on growth during COVID because we had a lot of ancillary time. And it'll be in growth again once we have a little more space from the business. But right now we've agreed that we want to put that focus on the business and then we'll come back to the relationship.

Starting point is 01:38:31 And so that's how I see it. I think the biggest issue that comes up is where there's discrepancies. So where there's just mismatched expectations between. the spouses and reality or how they see it. And I think one of the worst things that I see kind of in the dating, marriage, whatever industry, is the labels that they ascribe to situations. Or kind of to Layla's point, like they're like, if you're not X, if you're not having a date night once a week, if you're talking about business,

Starting point is 01:38:57 if you're, they just insert something. They then say it's bad, right? And so if both, let's say that, let's say hypothetically, Layla and I were so busy with work that we did nothing but work and didn't have a meal together for a month. If we both didn't have a problem with it because it was the season that we were in, other people might say, that's bad. What they really mean is I don't prefer that. In which case I say, cool, live your life your own way, but don't live mine. And if we're both good with it, then there are no problems. And so that's where I feel like a lot of people get offroated because they adopt someone else's preferences. and ascribe good or bad meaning to their own circumstance

Starting point is 01:39:38 and then say we need to change something or my girlfriend gets a date night every Thursday why don't we have a day night every Thursday because now the fact that we don't have one is bad whereas they might just be in lockstep and totally fine and so for us it's as long as there's no discrepancy we're usually good and like if there's a time where Layla's like hey then I'm like cool

Starting point is 01:39:59 I'll stop right now if I'm not you know doing something but sometimes she's like hey you got a minute I'm like I'm in the middle of the middle of this book chapter, I'm going to need another four hours. She's like, cool, no sweat. Like, do your thing. I'm going to go for a walk or whatever. You know what?

Starting point is 01:40:12 I think the biggest thing is it's like the biggest gift that we've given ourselves or our relationship. We do not compare to anybody else's. Like, to a degree that I've never even had the thought about somebody else's relationship and how it contrasts to mine. Because I think it's just like each relationship is its own unique. It's like an unique organism. Like it shouldn't be compared to anything else.

Starting point is 01:40:33 They're dynamics. Yeah. And so I think. think we're two unique people, therefore we have a unique relationship. Therefore, why would I compare it to anybody else? And I think that's where most of like the angst and the resentment in so many relationships come from is you're comparing to somebody else's, they're two completely different unique people. In different circumstances. Different life goals, different mission, different values, different interests. So it's like, why would I ascribe their preferences to my

Starting point is 01:40:54 reality? How do you fight against that? Because I feel like it's a natural instinct almost to want to compare yourself to somebody else. I think this is a little bit of the personal involvement side like we were so hardcore about that like not comparing to other people that like like I think that's almost something like early on in our relationship one of the reasons I liked Layla and I kept saying this early on was I was like I was like you see reality the way I see reality and I just didn't have many people who saw the world the way I saw the world which is why I felt very lonely for a lot of my life I just felt like it just I just I just you know I miss I would stay in bed at night and just be like it's just me like no one else sees it this way and so I

Starting point is 01:41:31 feel like she saw the world the same way. And so, you know, if someone else, you know, it's like, oh, that's so unhealthy. We, like, we'll both immediately catch that. And we're like, okay. This motherfucker. Yeah, we're like, I mean, we both see it when people are judging us. And I think, I don't know, it's not even, it doesn't even cross my mind. I don't compare myself to other people in general. So it's like, you know, I compare myself to who I know I am potentially able to be. And I think Alex is the same thing. And so it's like our relationship would make less sense to compare. You know, and even, you know, people, you know, people say like relationship goals like they say that of other people like I have never said

Starting point is 01:42:08 that word nor have been thought you know what I mean and so like to a certain degree and like we get some of that and I'm flattered for those people but like at the same time I feel like your relationship goal should be like who you want to be and how you want that dynamic to be whatever way you choose and zero outside influence on that like if your parents are like this is weird then it's like cool weird for you that's your preference not mine thank god you're not married to me you know what i'm like and that's okay and so like we even i mean we got in a row with a family member they're like you guys are just so unbalanced i would never like want your life and i was like right you don't have it like you don't have my life everyone wants to judge other people and label things as good or bad

Starting point is 01:42:54 and we just don't subscribe to that it's like there's a lot of things that people would look at our marriage like very unhealthy very bad and i'm like cool fuck off i don't give a shit you know what i mean like I like it, he likes it, what doesn't matter? You're not in our relationship. Why do you care? What happens is a lot of people see a relationship, compare it to theirs, and then either feel bad about theirs or they feel bad about theirs and take the next step and then criticize the other one because it means that must be wrong because I don't want, because my ego can't take this. When your ego should just not be involved at all. Like if I see a relationship,

Starting point is 01:43:24 people are together and they like each other, I'm like, awesome. Like, so happy. Like, the thought, yeah, it's like the thought doesn't even cross my mind. I mean like, Jen, I don't care what I know what else does. And so like when someone puts it on us, I'm like, cool. Like, thank you for your, kids. How's that? Something must be super fucked up.

Starting point is 01:43:41 It's like, no, we just don't want them right now. Like, what do you get the fuck? Thank you for the irrelevant commentary that describes, that I ascribe no meaning to. Yeah. And how developed do you think your own character and value system and,

Starting point is 01:43:53 and personality need to be developed before you're ready to date and marry someone? Or do you think that you go in kind of, you know, scribbles on a blank? slate or whatever, and then you get into this relationship and then the other person builds your values and character and stuff like that. I think you got to be good being alone. You think you need to be already kind of understanding yourself. You need to be a complete person. Like if you, if you're the person who always has to have somebody there to like feel complete, what you want in my opinion is two whole people that together like the sum of two holes is significantly greater, not two halves

Starting point is 01:44:26 making one whole. I think it's like I want at least this is Alex's viewpoint of the world. Yeah. I think we choose what we are dependent on each other for, right? Like there's a lot of stuff I depend on Alex for, and there's a lot of stuff he depends on me for. But it's chosen. We could do it on our own if we didn't have each other. You know what I mean? Versus there are some people that's not chosen.

Starting point is 01:44:46 It's like necessary. And I think that's when you have issues. That makes sense. It makes it seem much more voluntary than just like feeling compelled to join a relationship because of something you need from the other person. 100%. It's like, I mean, this is a voluntary, you know, These are voluntary relationships.

Starting point is 01:45:02 And we want to set ourselves up for success, which is like don't need anything. Yeah, can you imagine something more beautiful than two people who don't need one another who just choose to be together because they prefer life together? Like that in my mind is like, and if you continue to prefer living life together, then you don't need any outside anything.

Starting point is 01:45:20 But wouldn't you say that it also takes a lot of dating experience to know what to look for and what you like and what you don't like? I think dating experience or education. You know what I mean? I think like for me, I read Tony Robbins, was it Unleashed Power Within? Yeah. And they had the whole thing where you write down.

Starting point is 01:45:36 Awaken the Giant. I don't even know what that's what one it was, right? But it was like write down everything, non-negotiables of what you would break up with someone for. And then the characteristics you're looking at this whole thing. I had this whole exercise and like I didn't know. I have a ton of experience like in depth. I mean, you know, I had good significant relationship for like, whatever, you're young, right? I'm like 20-something.

Starting point is 01:45:58 But I had read that book and I was like, I tried. trust that this person knows what he's talking about. He has seen enough relationships. If I do this formula, I feel like it will pan out. And when we were talking about getting married, I was like, listen, I remember thinking, I was like, Tony Robbins said that if you do X, Y, and Z, you know, you pick like this, which we did. And then you go like this and, like, you can work on pretty much everything else as long as you get the fundamentals right. Like, basically get the fundamentals right of like matching your expectations and non-negotiables of what you're looking for in a spouse. And then everything else you can create.

Starting point is 01:46:28 One of the things that I think has been really important for Layla and I, at least. So Warren Buffett was in front of a crowd of college kids. And he said, so who here, you know, I get asked all the time, what if you could only have one character cheat that you would look for in a spouse, what would you look for? Right? And people are like, brains and beauty or character, loyalty, right? And he's like, you don't want any of that stuff.

Starting point is 01:46:50 He's like, you know what you want? Low expectations. He's like, that's how you create a merits that lasts. And like, he was being incredibly serious, but also tongue-in-cheek at the same. same time. But I think part of that process, at least how we approached it, was that we were probably the least Hollywood version of a relationship. You know what I mean? Like, we un-Hollywood everything. It was very much like, does this make sense? Right. And I think because of that approach, big picture, neither of us came in expecting the other person to save us. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need you

Starting point is 01:47:18 to make me happy. And I think that's where the whole person comes in. Like, if you're, if you're like, I'm happy doing what I'm doing, like, I don't need you. I prefer it. But like, I can continue to live my life and the other person can too, then the expectations are significantly lower from the other person, which is why, like, this is again, me's talking for me. Like, the fact that Layla never tried to change me and still hasn't throughout our whole relationship, I think is one of the biggest reasons why, like, you've been good because, like, I resist anyone who tries to change me very hard. Like, her point earlier about, like, no rules, like, I hate rules. Like, tell me I can't do something. Like, there's, like, there's nothing that drives me more mad than something like that.

Starting point is 01:47:58 And so because just may come like, what if circumstances change? You know what I mean? Like I hate it. And so low expectations and leading from values has been how we've just used as our compass pointing true north of mission. And then like we accept the waxes and wanes that occurred during the natural shifts of time. And it's, I don't know. It's work for us. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:20 And I think it's not judging that relationships morph and change and wax and Wayne like you're saying. like a lot of people judge that like oh we're not feeling as close like this is a problem if if we're not feeling as close i wouldn't label that as a problem i'd be like that's normal in relationships or if somebody's like i've been dating her for two years now i'm not feeling as attracted i'm like makes sense you basically are her roommate now let's work on it you know so i think a lot of the things that people label as problems in relationships are normal parts of being in a relationship and they're just things you have to manage they're not things you have to fix and i think that's the difference is like we don't look at any part of our relationship as we're

Starting point is 01:48:56 well as like anything that needs to be fixed because it's not broken. And so I wouldn't use that word. It's like things that we have to manage. And usually you're like a couple tiny tweaks away from anything. And so and when you don't need the other person, it makes all of those things feel much less serious. Yeah, they're way less like high. There's there's way less pressure. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, when you do this, I feel like if we did this, it'd be a little better. Does that work for you? Yeah. Great. Fantastic. You know what I mean? Like it's just Thousands of those. There's also low stakes

Starting point is 01:49:26 because if that person doesn't want to comply, you're like, okay, cool. It's fine. Are you guys comfortable saying the last direct example of a disagreement that you guys had and then how you resolved that? So to give the viewers an actual,

Starting point is 01:49:39 like, case right here, this is what happened and this is how it was solved. I think the only thing we argue about is business stuff. Yeah, yeah. Nothing person. It's not, we don't,

Starting point is 01:49:49 because that's not that important. It's not important. It's just we don't have many disagreements. We both are really aligned on it. I think it's that and we both just have, we spend much more time in the business. So there's more time for disagreements. Okay. Sure.

Starting point is 01:50:04 Probably cash cows. Yeah. So, yeah, we were thinking about starting a show, putting a lot of like effort and money into something called cash cows. I really wanted to do it. Layla was like, we have too much on our plate right now. And to be fair, that's kind of like a recurring theme. So that would be like the most recent one that has come up, but it's one of many. Well, I think there's, it was looking at a way that basically it was a show that we would, you know, people would pay to be on the show, basically kind of like a shark tank type thing.

Starting point is 01:50:30 They pay an equity like we get a person because that's how Shark Tank works. They get a stake in the business to be on the show. To be on it? Yeah. Yeah. No, I thought Kevin O'Leary or it was Mark Cuban argued against that. It's been that way for like, not anymore. So anybody that goes on Shark Tank.

Starting point is 01:50:47 But for years. Okay. They got a stake because people would get on the show not take any bids and then their business would blow up. Right. get a stake in everything plus whatever deals they take. Wow, I had no idea that was the case. That was the idea. And I was against it because I thought, one, it relies on you and me.

Starting point is 01:51:01 And I also know Alex doesn't like doing the same thing over and over again. So it worries me because I was like, I could see in two years you don't want, or even in a year that you don't want to do this show. And it requires our time, which I don't like building something knowing it's going to require our time. And so we disagreed. Yeah, so we disagreed. And basically we'll just keep revisiting and I'll, you know, like she'll bring up, concerns she has and I'll it's more like she's like here are the problems with the thing that I see and

Starting point is 01:51:26 like unless I'm like no I don't think I'm going to get sick of anything ever like I I would did you did you guys do you have a resolution on cash cow or no it's still yeah we decided yeah we decided we did we can't put the different idea yeah we have a different a different thing share it no not yet but uh it's free advertising it is free ad we're not we're not going to take a stake in it like shark tank no three percent it has that the conversations often go like here's the reasons why I don't support the idea. Yeah. And then I go back to Saniswark.

Starting point is 01:51:56 I give Alex space because, I mean, I do think it's also like something that you have to understand if you're working with something like Alice is very much like the vision is like continuing to bombard him. Like I need to give him some space to like digest it. And like I'm sure it sucks because like coming up with an idea and sharing that idea with a bunch of people. It's like you're very vulnerable. It's like a very vulnerable state, I would imagine.

Starting point is 01:52:15 And so it's like I try to give him the feedback and then like kind of distance for a little bit and then we revisit it maybe the next day. And even after you came. to that initial resolution of like, okay, you know, maybe we aren't going to proceed with this. Part of you, I'm sure, still kind of wanted to do it, but then that got squashed over time once you realize this is not happening. Honestly, I don't have a desire to do it because like we just continue to beat the idea up and then like really like it's one of the things we say, like play it out. Like let's play it out. Right. Like, well, then what happens? Then what happens? Then what, like,

Starting point is 01:52:41 let's talk six moves future. Like what happens? And so the more we beat it up, the more we played it out, I was like, I think like these are, the points she's bringing up are irreconcilable. like I'll always get excited about all the upside. I'm like, man, this could be like a cool new version of Shark Tank. It'd be exciting. We get to, you know, we get so many messages from smaller businesses that we would never normally like work with because most of our companies are, you know, top line that like, you know, it's, it doesn't make sense, but I want to help. And so I was like, okay, if I could help a few people in an in a minute setting and then broadcast it, then it can help a lot of other people. It doesn't make sense time wise. The commitment,

Starting point is 01:53:18 you know, do we have to build a studio? Do we have to build a production team? Like how, how, you know, da-da-da-da, it's played out, right? And so after we really played out every angle of it, because I'll come with like a three-quarter idea, right? I'll be like, you know, I took two or three steps, let's talk because I'm not going to take 20 because I don't want to do like talking. You know, it's a free-flow and thing.

Starting point is 01:53:36 And so once it's resolved, you don't really come back to it. So like I have no, like the points that were brought up made sense and there are better uses for our assets and resources. So like if you think about strategy, big picture. The definition of strategy as I define it is how you choose to allocate limited resources against unlimited options. And so I'm saying we have these resources. This is an

Starting point is 01:54:02 option I think we should allocate it towards. This is this is my strategy, right? And then she will say, I don't think it's a good resource allocation because of either opportunity costs or something else we could pursue or the cost is too high inherently in this thing based on the upside we predict. Right. And so we'll either disagree on the cost or we'll disagree on the upside or both, right? Or door three, that there's an alternative that would be a better return than the primary scenario. So there's kind of like three variables that we'll think through when we're beating up a decision. And so once, once that's spelled out, like I have a full loop on that. Like that loops closed and we, we pivoted like 20 other versions of something like that to what we have, you know, what we think we're going to do. And then there's timeline. It's like,

Starting point is 01:54:42 okay, cool, we're agreed on this, when. And then we'll have to talk that out. It's like, well, resources right now are constrained, you know, based on growth. It might be a two quarters from now, I think. And then two quarters from now, we revisit. And if we're not ready, it might be two quarters from then. You know what I mean? And that's something that I've had to learn because I tend to be more like, go, go, go, go, go, bowl, and China shop, like, ask questions later. We'll figure it out.

Starting point is 01:55:02 And Layla, since we're calculated. And so it's, I mean, that's our yin and yang. And that's why it's either one's right or wrong. Like, like, it has just worked well for us to have that draw bridge tension between the extremes. And that's where I think the magic happens for us. What's the motivation right now for you to continue pushing forward in terms of business and continuing to grow and where's that coming from?

Starting point is 01:55:23 I can say mine. I mean, why don't you go? You seem to eager. Yeah, I think motivation and business, it just continues to be wanting to have an impact. Like, I know that sounds so cheesy, but I was like really thinking about it.

Starting point is 01:55:39 Like, when I met Alex, he was like, what do you want to do? I was like, I just really want to help people. And I remember he looked at me, he was like, could you make money too? You know, and so I think looking at how can we, utilize, like we have an insane team. We have, like, tons of access to talent and to companies that are amazing. How can we best put together this stack of resources to have the biggest impact possible? That's really what I look at. In terms of the kind of workplace we build,

Starting point is 01:56:06 like, we get to set new standards for like what makes sense in the workplace. Like, for example, like, we pay really well and we don't have to. And outside the workplace, which is like how people build companies, like the way they think about building companies. Like, we're changing the way that people think about how they make money, how they make a living, how they build their companies. And I think knowing that if we continue to do this for long enough, we will get to a point where we're so good that we can have an impact even sooner in that life cycle. You know what I mean? Like we've talked about being able to build a school for entrepreneurship and things like

Starting point is 01:56:37 that because I think what we both genuinely really enjoy doing is teaching that stuff. It's like teaching people the lessons that we have learned that we paid a lot in terms of pain or time more money to learn in a way that is digestible easy to learn and they can go you know take action on it immediately like i think that's always what we want to do and so the motivation is just to do more of that like i want to like right now i'm motivated to continue hiring these people so i can get above a little bit of the business so that i can spend more time making content because like i barely put any thought into it you know what i mean and i want to get better at it because i want to be a better teacher um so yeah i don't know it's it's always just being better being a better version of myself

Starting point is 01:57:15 like being a better contributor? So, I mean, the mission of the business is to make real business knowledge available to everyone. And so that's the mission of acquisition.com. And, you know, my self-worth measuring stick over the last year or so has begun to shift internally for me because everything. So I think every day we wake up and we ask a question and we spend our day trying to answer it. So for me, for most of my adult life as a business person, it's been waking up and thinking, like how do I make more money, which shifted later to how do I, will this increase my net worth?

Starting point is 01:57:49 How can I increase my net worth? Like that, that is like how it shifted. Today, it's, will this build goodwill? And I think that that's been one of the more internal shifts that's been occurring and it's still continuing to happen with me is that like the net worth stick is dropping and the goodwill stick or brand equity stick is rising. And so what happens is like if you change the question that you ask yourself every day, then it changes the lens through which you interpret reality and the decisions that you make. And so my weighing, my measuring stick has shifted. And so if you think about like the richest man in the world, like, if you, if you take

Starting point is 01:58:25 the net worth thing to its natural conclusion, it's like, I want to be the richest man of the world. And then I thought about it. I was like, do I really want that? Because then the follow up question is when? Because no one's richest man in the world forever, right? It's only like a very brief, distint of time and then they go down, right? And I was like, well, that's kind of a weird goal.

Starting point is 01:58:39 And I also think that if, if, again, you take it all the way out, that means that the day I die, right? I would have no goodwill left, no brand equity left because I would have extracted all of the value from every relationship possible. If that's what I'm truly maximizing for. And when I thought about that, I was like, that's not the person I want to be and that's not what the end of my life, what I want the end of my life to look like? So then I was like, all right, well, what I want the end of my life to look like? And I was like, well, I want to have, I would like to die with nothing left to give. And so if that's how I want to die, then I have to start changing how I live now in order to get that. Now, obviously, a portion of it for sure. We want to continue to, you know,

Starting point is 01:59:14 make more money, build really big businesses that we have more ability to do cool stuff, right? But we're now measuring it against a different stick, which is like, will this build the bread, will this help more people, will this build goodwill? No, you build goodwill, you make money, for sure. But for me, that fundamental shift has been a cooler internal fire because at a certain point there's no the marginal impact of of money decreases precipitously as you gain more of it and so but the the marginal return on goodwill and brand equity continues to compound like the amount of people that stop us in the street every day being like dude watch your stuff like I went from I quit my job and now we make two million dollars a year like it happens literally every day and like that's cool and that's

Starting point is 02:00:01 why we do it and that's why the mission of the business to make real business um education available to everyone And so everything that we're doing now is oriented towards that. Like me writing a book takes like this next book that's going to come out, $100 million leads. It'll probably take me by the time it's published about 1,300 hours. And I'm going to give it away for $99. There's very little direct ROI that it makes sense for me to do that. Like for 1,300 hours, like just like in terms of what people offer me every day for my time

Starting point is 02:00:29 is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 an hour. If I'm going to like work with them on something business-wise, which I don't because we only do equity, but like whatever. And so if I think about that, like, okay, well, 25,000 times a thousand is 25 million. So I put $25 million of what I probably could have spent time on directly into this book that I'm going to give way for 99 cents. But if I'm using the net worth stick, it would be a failure and I should do other stuff that I would get a better return on my time on.

Starting point is 02:00:55 But in terms of the goodwill and the amount of people that it will reach with no extra incremental unit of time, there are few that are better. And it will outlive me. YouTube videos will not outlive me. Book will. And so when I think about that long term, like that's when I'm on my deathbed, having nothing left to give,

Starting point is 02:01:13 I want to extract everything I can out of my head, put it there so that anyone can consume it. Like I get messages from like India and Bangladesh, you know, people would be like, thank you for making it 99 cents because we could afford it. Now,

Starting point is 02:01:23 here's a question. If it's just goodwill, why charge 99 cents? Why not just give it? It's because you have to put it on the, just for Amazon to push it. Got it. Because if they make,

Starting point is 02:01:30 so 66 cents of it goes to Amazon. I'm not getting rich on 33. cents. Yeah. But when they make money, they, they push it more. So it sells, like right now it sells, like the other book, sells, I think 20, like I just checked, it's like 22 or 23,000 copies a month with nothing, like just word of mouth and Amazon pushing it. And so like that's 23,000 people every month that get, have access to stuff and learn stuff and make more money and I get messages every day from it. And so it's like that's because like she knows, like when I'm in the thick of writing the book, I'm like, you know what I mean? It's tough. Like it's easy to

Starting point is 02:02:05 a book, it's very hard to write a good way. What's your process like for writing a book? How do you, where do you even start? I feel like I would be so overwhelmed and constantly doubting like, is this going to be good enough or something I'm actually going to read it? For sure. All those thoughts. How do you, how do you push yourself outside of that? Well, I mean, for the book, I start with, what drive do I want the book to do? Right. Like, what do I want it to do? And so this book, 100 minute dollar leads is when someone's like, man, I have this thing. I can't get anybody to sell it to. I want somebody to be like, you need to read $100 million leads. Like, that's where it fits in the conversation. Like I need any more leads. Like,

Starting point is 02:02:41 right, buy a hundred million dollars leads, you know, go read it. And then I start with that as the very narrowly defined problem. And then I try and think, how can I, in as few moves as possible, solve this for as many people as possible? And that's very hard, especially with that topic. Like, that book was significantly harder to write than offers, right? Because offers is a really super well-defined, like, what do you do in exchange for money? Like, it's a clear. It's a clear problem definition. This one's like, how do you get anyone to know about anything? It's really what it is. It's advertising. Right. And so, anyways, start with the problem. Then I work backwards. And then I, I've made 127 different models of what I thought, like, the core model of the book would be.

Starting point is 02:03:18 Like you're familiar with the value. In the first book, there's something called the value equation, which kind of the core concept of the book, which a lot of people share it and whatnot. And so within this book, there were two core concepts that I had to like pull out of, hundreds of iterations to get it right. And so the first probably like eight, nine months of the book is like really just drawing out models over and over again and then beating them up. And so Dr. Cashy, who's my co-writer on this, like we'll meet every Monday and we'll beat it up for two hours.

Starting point is 02:03:49 I'm like, what about this? And then we just try another scenario and try and break the model until eventually we can't break it. And then once we have the core models of the book, then I'll start writing the book. And so right now, once I do it, I have like this is the 12th draft of the book. I mean, and if you think about it, the way that you put time into YouTube videos, like the reason that most books don't sell a lot is because they're not that good, or there's an alternative agenda, right?

Starting point is 02:04:12 If you're making the book with the intention of like, how can I get somebody who doesn't have clients or doesn't have customers to get their first customers and they know nothing, right? And then I also have somebody who's doing $10 million a month and I need, and I want it to provide value to that guy. How do I solve both of those and do it in under 200 pages, keeping it under third grade reading level? That's what takes time.

Starting point is 02:04:32 And so that's, so it was 650 pages. That's cut, cut down to about 220. So that's, that's a short answer of how I, like, wow. It's tough. I honestly never want to write a book watching and write one. It looks awful. But a while of time. What would you see the most challenging part is?

Starting point is 02:04:48 Getting the concepts right. The models. Like, the reason the value equation hasn't been, like, altered and people share it all over the place, but no one changes it. It's because it's right. Like, if you see people who, like, come up with these acronyms or, like, little, you know, like people will try and teach something and they'll spend something together and they'll throw it on the wall and people will continue to alter it is because it,

Starting point is 02:05:08 so the quality of a model is based on validity and utility. So how, how true is it, is it predict an outcome? And is it, sorry, is it useful and is it valid? So like I could say, something's right, something's wrong. That's a model for outcomes, but is it useful? No. Right. And so if you have something that predicts an outcome and is viable in many, many, many, many situations, you have a very valuable model. If you have a model that only applies to these situations and is wrong in all these other ones, it's not that useful. And so if I want to create very useful models that are correct in many scenarios, I have to continue to rechunk and rework it. And when you look in retrospect, like if you see the models, it would be like, oh, of course, these make sense, but they're unbreakable. And that's why it's so hard because once you see them, it seems obvious.

Starting point is 02:05:56 but it took me a lot of iterations to get there. That is by far the hardest part of it. Writing the book for me, writing's not as difficult. That's more like coats of paint and polishing it over and over again. But the ideas is the hard part. The timeline you have to finish by? Just keeps going until it's done.

Starting point is 02:06:13 It's done. And I feel like now this is the third book that I have finished. I'm like, it's going to be wrapped up in the next 14 days. It'll be done. I know that I'm done when I'm sick of the book. and I don't want to look at it anymore.

Starting point is 02:06:29 And I'm like, I don't even care. Like, it is, it is exact, like, there's nothing I can change about it. Like, if they don't like it, then it is what it is. But, like, there's nothing else I can change about it that would add or detract from the concept of the book. At that point, then it's been, like, there's nothing else. And then, then it, like, it can go in the world. And maybe it takes less time.

Starting point is 02:06:46 Maybe it takes more. It takes what it takes. I love that. Can we walk through maybe each of your own respective daily schedules? and maybe like how you can divide up that time between work if you're writing every day and then at the end of the night you know how you guys hang out sure um we're a little different so i mean wake up and i guess drink decaf coffee right now because i haven't been drinking calf so there you know i don't know i feel like sometimes it makes me like a little too

Starting point is 02:07:16 buzzed if that makes sense yeah a little too wired antsy yeah and i don't really need any more of that i have plenty of that naturally so what time do you guys do you guys guys wake up at is it still yeah it's so funny everyone's always like when you wake up and go to bed I don't pay attention what really it's just no alarm just you wake up yeah I don't have alarm really is it like are you okay if we have something going on like an event or something sure I'll set an alarm but like I mean I'll wake up anytime between 530 and 6 usually okay that's like pretty average for me um and then wake up uh drink coffee usually first thing I do is open my laptop

Starting point is 02:07:57 start doing emails in Asana and Slack so I like take care of everything that's come in the night before. I think of Asana. Oh no, no, no, I don't go in Asana. No, I'm actually, I'm literally thinking as I'm saying I'm like, God, this is boring. Here we go, most riveting part of the interview. Biggest drop off on YouTube.

Starting point is 02:08:15 Asana Slack, all that stuff. And then I usually work on something for like a couple hours. Like probably two to three hours. I work on either like an initiative doing diligence on a company, working on a company initiative, building out of training, doing content, whatever it is, working on it for a few hours. And then usually around like 9.30 or 9, yeah, go to the gym, work out,

Starting point is 02:08:39 come back, shower at some point. I try to like delay as long as possible. Sometimes I don't even, depending on the meetings we have. They're all internal, like you're not getting a shower. If they're external, like with our portfolio CEOs and stuff like definitely going to. And then do meetings from anywhere from like 11 to 5 typically. And then or, you know, the days I prefer, it's like 12 to 5 or something like that. Then done with meetings.

Starting point is 02:09:06 Alex and I go on a walk. We debrief with each other. Then we usually go to dinner somewhere really easy where we like pick up something. And then we come back lately sometimes been working again at night for a little bit just because of like the load of things going on. and then read or watch something on YouTube or watch a show and go to bed. What do you watch on YouTube? Honestly, I just study different people's channels now. So, like, I was on, last time I was on here and I was like, I haven't watched anything.

Starting point is 02:09:37 I was like, fuck, I should watch this shit. And then I'm like, oh, wow. Like, I get why I'm like, I just, I get it. And I'm like, I could put so much more effort into this. Just seeing what people do. So just the biggest channels I can find I look at. I look at a lot of the creative channels like Mr. Beast or Arak or like them. Yeah, because I think how can you take that and apply it to, like, educating people on business?

Starting point is 02:09:59 Sure. There are principles you can take away. And so I'd rather look at that because I don't really like to watch other people's business content because I don't like a lot of it. Or I don't want to, like, assimilate other people's ideas. So I try not to watch any other channels of that. That's usually, that's my routine. Yeah, I have a more, like, I have a bigger window. So I'll wake up between like 3.30 and 7.

Starting point is 02:10:21 So it really just depends on when I wake up. I can't remember the last time I said an alarm. Just wake up when I wake up. You would wake up naturally at 3 o'clock in the morning. Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, yeah, for sure. Do you feel tired?

Starting point is 02:10:32 Are you just like... Oh, good today at like 4.30. I mean, yeah, that's... I mean, that's not really... Just saying, like, that's a... Yeah, it's a Saturday. If Alex is writing his book or has ideas, he'll wake up. Like, it's the idea that wakes me out.

Starting point is 02:10:44 So, yeah, it'll knock on the door. And I'm like, oh, I'm up. All right. So, and yeah, so I'll wake up. And then, um, it depends on if Layla's up or not. If Layla's up, then I'll have coffee with her, and then I'll start working. And if she's not up, then I'll not have coffee with her. I'll just have coffee alone, but straight to my desk and start working there.

Starting point is 02:11:05 And then I work sometimes I go through the gym. Sometimes I don't. Usually I do all my creative work in the beginning of the day. So book stuff, content stuff, creative solutions for like portfolio companies. like if they need, you know, sales scripts like looked at or like there's marketing materials or something like that. I'll take a look at it. That's not as often now.

Starting point is 02:11:29 It's much more like probably candidates and stuff. Like if we're looking to hire a marketing, like a director of marketing for a company, it's like I'll look at their resume. I'll just do research background. But then, yeah, the second half of the day's meetings for me. And then I have the same back half as Layla. So for me, it's just wake up. First half is solo work.

Starting point is 02:11:49 The second half is group work. And that has worked extremely well for me. Just no disruptions. First half of my day is mine. Second half is meetings. And that's worked. Yeah. Have you ever had a desire to travel?

Starting point is 02:12:01 Oh, we do travel. How often? This is just like what we do on a normal, we were traveling a lot until about seven weeks ago when we decided to cancel most speaking, aside from certain that we committed to. And not do that anymore. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:12:19 Wine is speaking. It's not forever. It's a season thing, one. And then two, it's like we want to make sure that we're on the stages that we want to be on. I think, you know, in the beginning it was more like, sure, well, like, hey, like, when's this date? Like, yeah, we'll try and make it, you know. And we ended up just getting pulled in too many directions. And then our faces were like plastered all over stuff.

Starting point is 02:12:43 I noticed that. Yeah. And I don't have that. I've seen quite a few things where your face was the very first one in every, one was reposting. Yeah. And I think I was asked to speak at something similar. Yeah, I'm just, I'm not,

Starting point is 02:12:57 I think it's gross. Yeah, we don't like that. Like I, I have thrown multiple events myself and I would never exploit speakers like that. And so experiencing it sucks. But it makes you appreciate the people that throw good events. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:13:09 And we want to preserve our energy for people that are looking to throw events for the right reasons and not, and looking to treat the speaker as well. You know what I mean? I think that that's important. It's a speaker experience is seriously. It's a thing. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:13:24 Yeah. So, I mean, the big picture is like, if you just think like time in versus impact, doing shows like this, doing podcasts, like, I actually prefer this to the stage stuff. And the reach that you get is significantly higher. So like preunit of time, there's, there's not a strong argument for the other. The only reason we'll do the other ones is like if it's a state, like now, it would have to be a stage that we would have to be a stage that we would. pursue or one that we're like we want to be excited to get on a stage not just like passively accept an invitation and so we we just pretty much drew a line canceled everything going forward

Starting point is 02:14:00 and then now we're just being far more selective about the few things that we take i will say this we talked to two different people that are far ahead of us you know like worth billions and i asked them how they think through speaking on stages and they both spoke to the point of only speak on stages where you would want people to associate you with every person that's speaking on that stage. Right. And that's incredible. Yeah. It was a great piece of advice.

Starting point is 02:14:25 Yes. Because I was really struggling with it because I'm like, is this, does this work? Like, I want to make an impact to help these people in the audience. Yeah, I want to help these people. But can I help those people if I'm then associated with these other people from there on out? The answer is no. So I think that was a huge piece.

Starting point is 02:14:42 And I think that it was an unlock for me. I was like, I get it now. So it's like only speak on stages that you, want to be associated with all the other people speaking there and the brand of the company or person that you're speaking on their stage. That's a perspective I've never thought it before. Yeah, because is it, and this is the question, if you're speaking on a stage, is it building your brand or theirs? Right. Correct. And if it's not building your brand, why are you speaking on the stage? If it's deteriorating your brand, if it's almost, because some people, you know,

Starting point is 02:15:10 for us, like, we don't sell anything. And then we might go on someone's stage and they're milking our brand. They're selling tickets with our face on it. That's detracting from our brand. It's not what I want to do. If we threw an event, I'm not going to charge people that much money for a ticket. You know what I mean? So it's like if I wouldn't even do that myself, it's tough to then watch somebody else do it. Yeah, I've been invited a lot to speak. I've turned everything down except for one.

Starting point is 02:15:30 And the one event, it ended up getting pushed. But it was, I would love to be associated with everyone on stage. Like, I'm the odd one out in that situation. But even with that, they were saying, oh, you could sell something on stage. I'm like, I have nothing to sell. Yeah. And it seems like with a lot of these, it's like, and we'll let you pitch for free. And, you know, we're not going to add.

Starting point is 02:15:48 for anything, but, you know, we want you to come and just speak. So when you don't have anything to sell, especially, or any hard pitches like that on stage, it doesn't make sense. Plus, I've always thought about it logically that if I want to reach 100,000 people, it's much, right, it's so much easier to turn on the camera, then go up on stage and travel and have to wait. And it's just... Because it's two days.

Starting point is 02:16:08 I don't like it. That's the thing. It's two days. And then I think to myself, opportunity cost of two days, financially, never makes sense. From even just, if we just go impact standpoint, if I spend two days recording, you scripting and recording content or like writing out bullets of things that I want to cover and like really spend time on it. There's no universe where that and especially because we've now that we have the reach that we have, there's no universe that doesn't reach more people than any event.

Starting point is 02:16:30 And so that's where, you know what I mean? Like to your point, if we're really proud to associate with the brand and the other people on stage and it's a stage that we would actively pursue and be excited about, then that's what we're saying yes to. Everything else is, I'll just say, put it this way, like stages we own so we can control the setting and we know that it's, our messages are being delivered the way we want them to be delivered. Because to your point, like, if I'm not selling anything using my face, you better not be saying something using my face. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:16:56 Right. Some of it, though, I've seen the costs associated with holding these meetings. I mean, 50, 100,000. Patrick, bet David did one. How much was that, Jeff? Three million dollars to host the event for him. Yeah. So, and he does that every single year.

Starting point is 02:17:11 But there's so much work that goes behind the scenes to orchestrate something like that. I think because he knows how to do it right. Yeah. He's had probably a decade of experience, just hosting that event. Yeah. He's got it down. It's still $3 million in weeks worth of prep. Totally.

Starting point is 02:17:25 Just a setup. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. Our first, like, the biggest, like, we did a delivery event, so there was no, like, it was just like an event. We didn't sell anything. It was just for, for clients. It was like, it just costs a lot because we fed everybody for two days.

Starting point is 02:17:40 It's like having extra protein. Yeah, it's like having six weddings. You know what I mean? It's like having six weddings. And if you have a video. May I'd just double on a wedding on that. Yeah. While you guys are here.

Starting point is 02:17:49 Yeah. Yeah. I have a philosophical question. What do you guys think is the biggest threat to humanity right now? It's a deep question, man. I was thinking about it. I was thinking about it this morning. Well, I mean, I have two perspectives.

Starting point is 02:18:06 So one, you've got like the impending, you know, tension with the East and nuclear or whatever if something escalated and whatnot. That's one. The other one is just, it's just AI. You know what I mean? It would just like, I saw a video two days. ago that was an entire video of a girl like dancing and doing all the stuff and like they're like this person isn't real and I think that that has really really deep implications like AI will only be a threat to

Starting point is 02:18:33 humanity if it doesn't want humanity to be here right like that's that's where it's a threat otherwise I think there's like the micro or much more soon threat of what are people going to do because like even content right like imagine you've got somebody who can crank perfect content every hour of every day making a hundred videos every day that are like perfectly optimized and doesn't sleep and every time people watch they learn and they can pull from every YouTube video that's ever been made like that's i have a point i want to mention on yeah this is crazy ali abdahl on twitter posted his i think it was like 10 productivity hacks and i went through it i loved it i thought this is one of his best posts he's

Starting point is 02:19:12 ever made yeah and he came out a week later to say that i i wrote that he had nothing to do with it and it was also one of his most liked and retweeted tweets. It was AI. I was blown away. And he said it was a part of this experiment that he was running to see if an AI would be able to replace a human. And the answer was yes and better. Yeah. And that is nuts to me.

Starting point is 02:19:36 And I remember reading this specifically and like, wow, this is really good, really insightful. Yeah. I loved it. And I read it a few times because it's that good. But it was AI. And it just pulled the data from the internet and then assimilated it in such a way that, People understood. It's incredible.

Starting point is 02:19:52 If you, there's AI stuff right now for like, if you just say like, hey, I want a guy smoking a cigar, looking over a city in Van Gogh thing, click a button and they have a randomly generate, and just click generate again,

Starting point is 02:20:05 generate again. And now map these, the confluence of these things. You've got AI that can write better than humans. And then you've got it making moving pictures in real time. It's like it will be able to script and animate in real time. in real time perfect content. And so that's where like, it's going to be really interesting from like, so like imagine

Starting point is 02:20:24 movies in Hollywood. Like they can crank out a million movies with a click of a button. Like it's just not that far away. And so it's just going to be like what what jobs will be left for people to do. It's going to be like and I think a lot of AI stuff, people have been afraid of it because the people in power their jobs were never at risk. Yeah. And so it's just been laborers.

Starting point is 02:20:45 So like laborers like drivers like truck drivers. like truck drivers are going to be, which is a huge, huge amount of the workforce for men, especially. Drivers in general, Uber, like truck drivers, et cetera. Like, they're just going to be replaced, right? Like, that's like super, like everyone,

Starting point is 02:21:00 but those already exist. Don't you think that would lead to more productivity in general? If there's something that they can do. Farming equipment, I mean, has taken the way of the job so many people, but that's allowed us to progress so much. I'm not like, believe me, I'm pro technology in general.

Starting point is 02:21:13 I think where a machine can do everything better than a human, that's where it gets it gets fuzzy. That's where it gets tough. Can't it already to a certain degree in terms of just cars,

Starting point is 02:21:25 machinery, digging? I think it's the things coming together. It's like you have these robots that you see Boston dynamics. Yeah, Boston dynamics have those crazy robots and then you merge that with like

Starting point is 02:21:36 the brain that like can learn and then just replace all physical labor. Oh. Now, because it's really expensive to buy those versus labor. But then in 40 machine generation, it'll be cheaper and they can replace them like that. And then when that machine AI can also do X,

Starting point is 02:21:54 you know what I mean? Like in that they just become more and more able. And there's a saying in the finance world, you probably know, but like things take longer to happen than you think and then faster than you can imagine. So it's like it takes longer for, you know, like in the big short, like they knew that it was upside down for four years before it actually happened, right?

Starting point is 02:22:12 And then it happened almost overnight. And I feel like it's gonna be the same thing with, with AI stuff not to get, but it's something that it definitely keeps me up whenever I go down the rabbit hole and I see the stuff that's advancing and the rate that it's advancing right now and how it implies like every single copywriter,

Starting point is 02:22:28 every content creator. Like that's just all marketing. But don't you think then it would be so optimized that then you'll need outwires to stand out from that so it'll constantly have to be fighting against itself? Because if everything is optimized, then nothing is. And then you have to do something else to stand out. I think it would be competing against itself.

Starting point is 02:22:44 Right. It would just be, but like, it's AI comedian against itself not against us. Like we're just, we're not in the arms race. Sure. Like, it'll keep getting better.

Starting point is 02:22:54 Yeah, right. Like, it'll just be way above us and we're just never going to be able to make stuff as good. That's where it gets frightening. So anyways, that's what I think the biggest start of community is.

Starting point is 02:23:01 Great answer. All right. Layla? Not just similar. I think it's the next generation, honestly. So I was listening to, I can't remember which podcast it was.

Starting point is 02:23:14 And they were talking about how the upcoming, generation that will be the ones in power very soon, right? Nobody in the history of mankind has ever lied down as many hours a day as they do. And so I think it's actually the dissolution of the next generation. Because I think that like AI, for example, if in the right hands with the right regulations in place, I think could be beneficial to humanity. But I think that what like the underlying issue is that the people that are coming into power

Starting point is 02:23:43 and like the next generation, don't look at it that way or aren't going to take the measures needed to make sure that it doesn't go to the extreme that it could. Does that make sense? So I think it's more, that's what I fear because I see it in like there's ton, I mean, and listen, this is a huge generalization, but because there's tons of people still in the upcoming generation that are super hardworking, super diligent, like absolutely out there killing it. Like I talk to them every day. They work on my team. But there's also a ton of people who I've never seen. like more glued to their phones, more like lazy, not wanting to work, not wanting to do anything.

Starting point is 02:24:20 And that makes me sad. You know, I mean, it just sucks. I can't imagine that's a happy life. And so I just wonder what's going to happen when all these things are presented to humanity. And those are the people making decisions and deciding who's in power in this world. So that's what I think about. I agree with that. I think the next generation is going to be, could be a very big inflection point just for humanity in general.

Starting point is 02:24:43 I also think it's more of a symptom, though, than of like life for a lot of people. It's just gotten extremely easy. Like, everyone has a microwave. Now, well, not everyone, I shouldn't say that. A vast vast majority of people have a microwave now. Whereas, I don't know how long ago, right? Let's say 100 or so years ago, like it was pretty rare, you know? I don't think anyone had a microwave 100 years ago.

Starting point is 02:25:04 I don't know what a microwave is affected. I'm just saying, okay? Only a few people. I'm not going to history. But you know what I'm saying? Like, stuff like that is, everything is accessible to, everybody nowadays. I know. And I think it'll take a turn, but because history shows that it always does. But it's just, it's hard to watch. It's hard to talk to people that think that way. And it's hard

Starting point is 02:25:27 to talk to people who, you know, I mean, I've had conversations plenty of people that are like straight out of college with no experience or skills. And they're like, you need to pay me $100,000. I'm like, for what? Like, you didn't do anything. I think it's more expectations around reality. but you know I think every incumbent generation always has gripes with the you know the the up upcoming one like that's the 60s the 70 like you know it's you know there's there's always been strife but you know we'll see I mean the thing is is a lot of the stuff is uncharted territory in terms of how technology has shifted the landscape and really media in general how much that has like the propaganda machine you know what I mean yes in terms of shifting shifting shifting

Starting point is 02:26:10 culture in real time. That's the stuff that's, I don't know, scarier or different than, so like the ability to shift the entire zeitgeist of an era through media was not possible before. And so I think what happens is right now is that the extremes are significantly more, things are more polarized and it's kind of, I think there's a word for it, but it's like a double Gaussian chart, you know, but like it's way more polar. Yes. That's what we'll say.

Starting point is 02:26:34 And I think to your point about like, or what you were saying about threats, it's like World Wars, like this crazy divide. You know, we'll see. But I mean, I think there's big cycles in humanity and what happens after war is peace. And so hopefully we can avoid it. But anyways, those are the things that keep me up besides AI. In this generation, like if you look at like creators even on YouTube that I look at, like that the upcoming generation has such an opportunity. And like to get on there and like change how people are thinking.

Starting point is 02:27:02 I'm just, we know a few that are, but it'd be cool to see more. That was the conclusion I drew. I thought it was the media, to be honest. This morning. That was just like maybe a 30-minute, like internal dialogue, though. I was just like on my walk and I was thinking like, oh, yeah, it's pretty dangerous, you know, especially like with all of the power that they have, like, over-influencing Americans as well as politicians as well. That's why they're outlawed in most countries.

Starting point is 02:27:25 So, like, most media, social media is not allowed. Like, TikTok's not allowed in India. But that's also a double-edged sword. It's like, I get it. You know, I get both sides. I'm worried it's more about the destruction of the planet and the natural resources and killing off the oceans. Elon doesn't seem upset about it or he's not worried about it. So I've taken my leave from him.

Starting point is 02:27:48 I assume he's done more work answering that question. And so, you know, because we talk about not to work back to Acquisition. But like our whole goal is like to make real business education available to everybody. And it's not because we think that we're going to save the world. But we hope that we can equip whoever can cure Alzheimer's and whoever can build a for-profit business that cleans the ocean. Like, we want to enable that person to. But he wants to colonize Mars.

Starting point is 02:28:18 So don't you think that maybe he thinks that humanity's too far gone and that's why he wants to build something else? Yeah, at least all the things that I've heard, it's just much more of a failsafe of, like, humanity's likelihood of staying alive increasing significantly if it's a multi-planetary species. Like that's the single like belief point that he has looking at like the models of Sure. Population growth and like if an asteroid hits or like you know what I mean like there's or

Starting point is 02:28:43 nuclear like there's just a lot of things that can happen on a planet that could kill everybody. And so if there's just two, you've got to back up. And that's what significantly increases the likelihood that the species stays alive. I'm also a believer humans, one of our best powers is our ability to adapt. And I think we're a lot better at adapting than mitigating other issues. And like you said, if something happens to the environment, I would like to think some for profit organization or whatever could go and try to find a solution for it. I think so. Yeah, I wrote this down, which I think is kind of interesting. Lots of successful business people tend to have greater

Starting point is 02:29:13 egos because there is a numerical metric to their success. Whereas in other areas of life, there is no number such as like your success in relationships or something like that. I have noticed that tends to lead, like I said, to greater egos. How do you guys both balance your egos, especially in a relationship where a lot of the times there usually is someone kind of at the top and a supporter. It's pretty common, but with both of you being so successful in your respective niches, how do you balance the egos? I mean, it's been tough. I didn't, I didn't think that Layla's ego is going to fit in the door, but, you know, here we are. So apparently, you know, she was able to. We have very large doors. Yeah. I was like, oh, got it. Go ahead. Yeah, I'll speak for

Starting point is 02:29:56 myself, which is like, I don't have an ego. I tend to err on the side of insecure. So if anything, it's been a balance because Alex tends to have an ego. I tend to be insecure. And I think that we've taught each other. I think that we've learned from each other in a way that has helped us each kind of migrate a little bit more towards the middle, if that makes sense. Like I tend to be incredibly self-critical. Like no matter how much success I have, like I do not see myself that way. Like no matter how fit I am, I think I'm fat.

Starting point is 02:30:27 Like, when I won a bikini competition, I was like, no shit. I was like, that's making sense. I'm fat. They must have felt bad for me. Like, that's literally how my brain works, and that's how I am with everything with success. It's just like any amount of money we make, I always look at other people and circumstances as to being the reason why rather than myself. And so I've had to work on building my self-esteem through building evidence that I am good at things and showing myself those arguments because I think my brain tends to go to why I'm not good at things and why it's all other people and not myself. And I've had to work really hard to build myself esteem by presenting myself with undefioms.

Starting point is 02:31:01 Deniable evidence as to why I'm good at something. So I don't really think I've had like a I definitely haven't aired on the side of having like a big ego. Yeah. Hasn't been my, hasn't been my fight. Hasn't been my battle. No, I mean, I've been, I've been pretty public about the fact that the thing that I, that I struggle with is ego and pride. And I mean, it's, it's the, it's the aspect of myself that I hate the most. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:31:28 I'm grateful for the drive, you know, that it, that it brings the ambition and whatnot. But, you know, I remember I was talking to as like an executive coach a few years back. And I was like, how do I keep the drive without the other stuff? Like, I was like, I feel like it's really effective fuel. I was like, but it just burns dirty. And so, you know, trying to tackle that has been a lifelong journey. And I don't, you know, I hope that I hope that I've gotten better over. over time. And I think that something, you know, just going back to something we're talking

Starting point is 02:32:01 earlier about finding a mate. I think that, I think that you want to have a mate that complements you and has character traits that you aspire towards. And so there are many traits that Layla has that I aspire to be more like. And there are things that I probably have that she aspires to be more like. And I think in that way we can both improve. And I think if, if you're kind of balanced, you end up kind of meeting a little bit more in the middle where like, hopefully I will have less ego, she will have more, she'll be less insecure, I'll be more insecure. You know what I mean? And we just meet in a place of just kind of acceptance. But I mean, managing that is, I guess it's like understanding what context it's in. So it's like is the context

Starting point is 02:32:39 our romantic relationship? For me, that would probably like feeling disrespected by something that she would say. That would be something where like my ego might manifest and I might get angry. I think that has happened less and less. You know, in the business setting, it's the same thing, someone not basically complying with the request and, you know, me getting upset about that. But I think the more times I'm wrong and I've been wrong plenty of times, I try and remind myself of the times that someone else was right and I was wrong and to just like, like put some space between my emotional reaction and my actual reaction so that I can give myself like a counting five before I like say something stupid. And so one of my favorite definitions of humility is from

Starting point is 02:33:25 Clayton Christensen, he said, humility isn't thinking less of yourself, it's increasing your regard for others. And C.S. Lewis has a different definition of it, but I also like it, which is humility isn't thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. And so both of those have, you know, one is actively saying you increase your regard for other people. The other one is just like not making yourself the center of the universe. And so those are kind of like the mental frames that I try and think through to try and decrease my ego in the moment. The third frame that I use is the grandfather frame, which I don't know if you follow any of my stuff, but is thinking if I were 85 years old and I were born into this moment, like I went through a time machine, like my 85 year old self and he reimagined,

Starting point is 02:34:09 like he reemerged in this body, but it's 85 years old looking at you. That man doesn't have that much ego and he's just very grateful to be here. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't be like, can you believe this? I'm here. I remember when Jack looks so young. You know what I mean, Graham, like, you don't be like, it's actually, if you really get into that state, like you, like it really shifts how you see the world. And I think the reason that ego is so insidious is that you can't be grateful and have an ego because the moment that the ego flares, you believe you deserve it, which means you can't be grateful for it. So you can't be both grateful and have an ego, which is why I think gratitude's been so difficult for me in my

Starting point is 02:34:49 life because I it's been like of course this happened I would expect this to happen which also removes a lot of the joy from anything and so it's been something that I've worked a lot on and I don't think that there's a solution to it I think it's just like the consistent chisling away you know layer by layer of it and trying to remind myself that like you know my worldviews like when I die nothing happens and I am not as significant as I like to pretend to be now what's wrong with feeling like you deserve something It's an expectation that you're placing on reality that you can't control. Let's say someone works really hard for 20 years and they, you know, save up money and they say, I deserve that Corvette and they buy it.

Starting point is 02:35:31 Is that a negative that they felt like that was the expected outcome? I think if they didn't think they deserve the Corvette and then bought it, they'd be more grateful for it. I think there's also a difference between deserving and earning something. It's important to delineate between. Maybe. This is why definition is really important. This is what I jammed. I'm on. But I mean, I said on the first podcast, like does that like this is a quote from

Starting point is 02:35:53 Raval who quoted somebody else, but it's, you know, desire as a contract we make with ourselves to be unhappy until we get what we want. And so when we say, I deserve that, you're making a statement that I, unless I get this, it's like making an if-than statement for being a discontent or, you know, not happy. And so I try to avoid those at all costs. Because then if your expectation is zero of reality, everything above zero is positive. It's just like making no, making no demands of the universe. Because, shoot, I think it's Albert Ellis who said he interviewed zillions and zillions of people

Starting point is 02:36:26 for therapy stuff and he continued to, he had like nine, nine, what did he call him? He called him, I want to say disillusions, distortions, distortions of reality. And then there were seven. And then finally there were three. And then it stuck with three and then he died, right? And it was people make demands of the universe.

Starting point is 02:36:45 So it's like a circumstance. Like it has to be, you know, sunny tomorrow because it's my wedding. It's demand of the universe, just circumstance. They make demands of other people. Like, people must comply with my requests. They must do things the way I want them to do them or else. They're threats, right? And then finally, there's avoidance at the bottom,

Starting point is 02:37:03 which is that they will avoid, like, taking accountability or their current state through fear, et cetera. And so I try to avoid all three of those things when I'm thinking about, like, how I interact with reality. And so that's why, from the deserving perspective, I don't like that language. I actually hate the word deserve. I deserve this. Yeah, I mean, it's literally setting yourself up to be angry.

Starting point is 02:37:24 See, part of me thinks that people deserve to be happy. They deserve to be fulfilled. They deserve a lot of things. And I think having that feeling enables them to pursue that. Otherwise, if they feel undeserving of something, that may be more likely to self-sabotage or not pursue or leave things on the table that they could have otherwise obtained. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:37:43 I think there's just underlying shoulds that I just don't agree with. Okay. Not that I think that they're good or bad. I just like, I don't think that, I don't think people deserve anything. I think we're just people, period. We are what we are. If we get things cool, but like, I just don't think anyone deserves anything, myself included.

Starting point is 02:38:01 Sure. I'd prefer things, but I don't deserve them. That's just how I see reality. As far as being grateful, that's something that I definitely used to not be very good at. And recently I've gotten a lot better at for the past three or four months, what I do every morning as I write down, don't type it, but I write down three things I'm grateful for.

Starting point is 02:38:19 And it's helped. You know, it's a simple exercise. But now I'd like to think I'm pretty good at practicing gratitude. So a tip, in case of you curious. It's worked for me.

Starting point is 02:38:29 I want to get your honest thought about a situation that I'm going through right now. FTX has been a sponsor of my channel. Yeah, I was curious how you were taking that. Yeah. Horrible. For the last seven months.

Starting point is 02:38:39 It has been made me question every, I mean, I won't go into the details, but it has been probably one of the worst weeks that I could imagine, worse than any breakup. I mean, I feel like I've done so much to just offer value in that this happens. And it's been shocking to see how quickly people have turned. And a lot of them, when I really get into it, it's, you know, when I think objectively about it, I'm like, okay, you know, a video gets 300,000 views, got 2,500 comments.

Starting point is 02:39:11 So there's 25, 2,000 or negative. And when you think it's like, okay, that's 0.5% of the overall audience, everyone has their own demand and expectation from me of how I should handle the situation. Yeah. And it's frustrating because I have my own intuition of just what I would like to do. Yeah. And I worry that's reactionary, that I'm only reacting because of this. And then I've seen other people who are in the same situation as me.

Starting point is 02:39:40 You stopped sponsoring them, presumably. Oh, absolutely. I cut it before anything happens. So, I mean, the hardest thing, I guess, for me has been that people have, at least I feel like people, I have completely ruined the trust I had built with my audience over six years. Like my entire life has been this. Yeah. And it's gone from something that I had no idea about. And it's been really tough to deal with that and not know how to properly address it.

Starting point is 02:40:08 I know how I would like to make the situation right. Yeah. But doing that properly. in a way that's not reactionary. People seem to have the assumption that I knew what was going to happen or like, you know, a scamming and shilling. And I want to get your take on it from someone who's not in it.

Starting point is 02:40:24 You could think objectively who's familiar with it. Because there's the side of, you know, from a business perspective, you do not address it, you keep going. But then there's a different aspect of like, hey, this is PR social media. I built my business on me. Yeah. It's not, like I am the business. It's not.

Starting point is 02:40:40 Yeah. The big statement is brand over everything, in my opinion. Because like what you just said, like trust is what you've built your entire reputation on. I don't think it's as bad as you think it is, just being on the outside. Okay. Because I think anyone who's reasonable, like if people on Wall Street lost millions and billions of dollars here, like they were doing a, they were putting a tremendous amount of effort behind hiding, you know, what they were doing. Yeah. And so anyone who I think is the type of person that you would want to be.

Starting point is 02:41:10 associated with your brand there's the emotions of the situation someone might have bought many people might have started to use ftx because of you but whether they hold you accountable for what happened is kind of separate and so i think that if you kind of like charge the shooter in terms of saying like i feel terrible like i lean towards owning everything and just being like this is the relationship that i had with i'm sure i didn't watch the video that you made but it's like this was the relationship that i had with them they were a sponsor for my video videos. Something felt weird, so I took it off. I've built this brand off of not chilling anything, really believing in products. Like, so-and-so said they were the JP Morgan. I thought they were the

Starting point is 02:41:49 most reputable brand. Believe me, I get brands every day who try and ask me to do stuff and I don't do it because I value y'all's trust. Like, I would never, for the money that I got from this, I could have equally just done something else. Like, you know what I mean? And just very clear, like, and this has been terrible for me. Like, imagine everything that you've built for six years, you know, gets called in question because of honestly, just a mistake. mistake. You know what I mean? And I think that the more you just own that narrative of like this is this is my fault. I should have looked even closer, but at the same time like, and I think you have to speak to them. They feel like how are they feeling right now? Those people. I'm confused because

Starting point is 02:42:28 when I made the first video, it was a two minute, like right to the point. No fluff, no nothing. Okay. And it was really well received. Someone else, Coffeezilla, made a whole video. Immediately, I got thousands of people just flooding everything. When I look through comments, I do a search to see if they've commented before on the channel. I want to say 95% have never commented before in the channel. So you already made a two-minute video addressing this entire matter. Yes. What did you say?

Starting point is 02:42:57 Just so I know. I said that FTEX.com was experiencing financial issues. FTX is separate from that. And right now is open for withdrawals. Yeah. I said, I cut my relationship with FTCS. I would recommend you take your money out of FTXUS. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:43:13 Right now they're working and they claim they're separate. I don't know if I believe that. So I take your money out what you still can. And then I just made a little mention that, you know, this was a sponsor who I took them at their word. I was mistaken. I'm sorry for doing this. Or I'm sorry that I, basically, I apologize. It was a mistake.

Starting point is 02:43:35 And, you know, I hope I'm wrong in this whole thing resolves itself. But in case it's not. I mean, there was two minutes just saying that. If you covered the core, like, and you were early on it, which is great, like really good. And you were like, hey, take it out. Like, I, and it was also before, like, that shows you're protecting your, like, you're fortunate in that you didn't have to wait for everything to collapse before doing something. Like, was there brand damage? Yes.

Starting point is 02:43:58 Is it permanent? No. Do it people who are reasonable who followed your stuff, especially because you made the two minute video beforehand, think that you are a shell? No. Because they've been following your stuff. stuff forever and you're so particular and I also know you that you're so particular about what you and like literally the whole conversation we just had about the the stages and who you stand next to in the associations like we're so particular about that because we know how much it matters and it's just

Starting point is 02:44:21 one of those like it sucks and it will happen and life will move on and when you're 85 you're like yeah I remember where that happened that sucked but like it's not going to destroy your brand I think the fact that you came forward did it first told your people to take it out like because you were just not even you didn't even wait for you're like I'm just not even sure and that's enough for me to say I cut my relationship with them and I told you to take your money out like dude I think you've done right by your audience I don't know I feel like

Starting point is 02:44:47 the longstanding audience does deserve something maybe more but they want the whole story like here's what I did here's the research I did but I don't know also if those are those are people who just want to they thrive on that sort of drama I think if you feel like there are things that are unsaid that you feel should be shared then

Starting point is 02:45:03 share those if you if you feel like that first video covered all the points then Yeah, I feel like a lot of it would just be, but defending myself. And that that's where I feel like I'm at, just based on the comments. And then, of course, I feel like some of that, you know, even if a person never thought of that before, Graham was scamming his audience or he knew. They see comments about they're like, wait a second, maybe these people are right.

Starting point is 02:45:28 Yeah, he was scamming his audience. Yeah, and then I believe it's infectious. The other aspect is that a lot of people want to know how much did you make from the deal? and then to give it all away. And I have no problem giving it all away and not profiting. If I can just count on this with like, you want to give the money away because you want to feel better. Yes.

Starting point is 02:45:48 Like just being real. Yeah. I don't think any less of your character because you had FTCS as a sponsor. It could have been Coinbase. It would like- We'll make those decisions all the time. It just happened to not work out. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:45:59 Like is there something realistically that you can add to the process for future sponsors? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'd just stay away from crypto. Sure. Then add that. You know what I mean? by all means. But there was a crypto craze and a lot of people were like,

Starting point is 02:46:10 it's the new money. Well, that's why I thought of brokerage, not any coins or anything like that. You're trying to do the most. You've always made the pro-brand decision. And you made it then and you made it early the moment you sniff something. You didn't keep taking their money.

Starting point is 02:46:24 Like if you had at that point, like right when you were like things are weird, I'm going to take the next check. You know Esau's fable of the man, the boy, and the mule. No. I think it's useful to know. Okay.

Starting point is 02:46:34 So this is like a multi-thousand-year-old story. So there's a father, a son and a mule and they're walking right and all three of them are walking and then people walk by and they're like what a waste of a mule they're like why would you have a mule walking when you've got you know two people walking beside it so the father puts his son on the on the mule and they keep walking and the next group of people come by and they're like what a terrible boy making his old father walk next him while he rides the mule so they hear that and then the kid gets off and the father gets on and they're riding and the next group of people passed by.

Starting point is 02:47:08 And they're like, what a terrible father, making his son walk next to him while he walks, while he rides the mule. And so as they walk, as they get into town, they hop off the mule. They take a stick and then they tie the donkeys feet together. And then they put the stick over the shoulder and then they start carrying the mule.

Starting point is 02:47:28 Like it hanging like a thing. And the moral of the story is like all four of the scenarios of the four possibilities they could have done. and off, and then, of course, people there are saying they're idiots too. And so it's like, you can't please everyone. And so it's like, you can only do the thing that you know is right. And you're the only one who has context

Starting point is 02:47:44 on your situation. No one else does. The funny thing is that when we die, the only person who has full context on our scenario dies with us. And so, like, you're the judge. Yeah. So if you feel good, I'm like, rock. If you're like, I feel weird, then it's like, then get that handled and then

Starting point is 02:48:00 be twice as loud. Because you shouldn't have anything to be ashamed of. Thank you. Yeah, no worries. Thank you. Appreciate it, guys. We really appreciate you coming on. So, I hope you enjoyed.

Starting point is 02:48:10 Yeah, yeah. Hope we get some of them clippy clippies.

The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The $100,000,000 Power Couple Who Sold Everything | Hormozi

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