The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The $100,000,000 Woman Who Owns Nothing | Leila Hormozi

Episode Date: July 24, 2022

Leila Hormozi is a first generation Iranian-American entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist. Today Leila talks how to run and grow several 8 figure businesses and what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur.  Get up to 10 Free Stocks via moomoo: https://j.moomoo.com/00kHd2 For Australian audience, Get $10 AUD for every $100 AUD funded (Up to A$50) via moomoo: https://j.moomoo.com/00kHd5 Check out the Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/icedcoffeehour  Add us on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan https://www.instagram.com/alex_nava_photography Check out Leila's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leilanhormozi/?hl=en Leila's Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxCcu9pet4dljrBLf8R5nwA Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] GET YOUR FREE STOCK WORTH UP TO $1000 ON PUBLIC & SEE MY STOCK TRADES - USE CODE GRAHAM: http://www.public.com/graham  MY NEW COFFEE IS NOW FOR SALE: http://www.bankrollcoffee.com/ The Equipment used: https://tinyurl.com/y78py5g2 Audio Equipment Used In Podcast: Rode NT1, Rodecaster Pro The YouTube Creator Academy:   Learn EXACTLY how to get your first 1000 subscribers on YouTube, rank videos on the front page of searches, grow your following, and turn that into another income source: https://bit.ly/2STxofv $100 OFF WITH CODE 100OFF  For Podcast Inquiries, please contact [e-mail] *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the iced coffee hour. My name is Layla Formose. And over the last two years, this podcast has made over two million in revenue from AdSense. I wish. Yeah, that's close. That would be really nice, wouldn't it? What's the number brand? $239,000.

Oh, wow. I was so far. Yeah. Most people are. But great guests, nonetheless. Thank you so much for coming on, Layla. We got a lot to get into. And people may recognize your last name, Hormozie.

We had on Alex twice previously. and I got really excited to have you on because someone told me, I don't remember exactly who it was. It was a business person, entrepreneur person. They said, Layla Hormozi is a savant

in business and entrepreneurship. They said it could be looked over sometimes, but she is a genius in it. And I'm like, you know what? That makes total sense. Of course you would be, right?

And I think it would be interesting to bring you on here. Tell your story how you got to where you are today. And yeah. Yeah, everyone that I've talked to, by the way, is like, oh, you had Alex on,

just wait until they have Layla on. Yeah. Just wait. Like it gets even better. Not trying to put any pressure on you or anything. Yeah. We're not setting the bar. It's too hard.

Yeah. But not one person has said anything less than like she's a genius. You have to talk to her. You have to have her on the podcast. So here we are. Okay. No pressure. No pressure at all.

But yeah. So thank you so much for coming. Give us a little bit of your backstory. Yeah. And what led up to everything that has conspired so far? Yeah. So if we rewind back, just to give context, I think sometimes you start a little bit sooner.

So I'll go back to when I was in high school. So high school started getting into fitness. I was always overweight as a kid. And so I kind of pursued figuring out, you know, food, working out, all that stuff. And that caught my interest in I was like 13. And so I actually didn't stick with really any sports. I started going to the gym and like lifting by myself. And so that was really the only form of like physical fitness that I did.

And then when I was around, I want to say like I learned enough that then when I was at the age of like 18, 19, I end up losing like 85 pounds. And so first, I use that as context because I think going through like a fitness transformation and losing a ton of weight like that and like changing your identity is really similar to becoming, you know, someone who's successful in business, right? It's like becoming successful in one area of real life kind of translates over to the other. And so then I went to college for exercise science thinking that I would attain some kind of skill set that would allow me to like one day have a business, which was very wrong.

And so I went to school and I think like two years in, I realized that. like, this is not going to do anything for me. And so when I went to college and I realized that it was basically useless and there was nothing for me to learn, I started investing myself. So I started listening to like Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn. And I started really paying attention like, what do I want to do when I get out of here? Because I kind of was just finishing it for the sake of finishing it. Like my dad was a professor.

And so I got like, I literally paid like 25% of tuition because he worked there. So it was like, you know, I just, honestly, I didn't take it serious. I wasn't like a bad student, but I also wasn't like super good. I just like thought it was useless. And I was like, I can learn more on my own. and from other people that I'm studying right now. And so I did a lot more of that. And then I knew that I wanted to compete in fitness and move out to California.

And so I graduated college and I was like, okay, I understand everything about the human body, very useless. Like I got that by now. It's like I'd read enough books that I was like, this isn't really going to help me a ton because that can only take me so far. I need to learn how to build a business and market and sell. So I lived in Michigan at that point in time. And I was like, pretty much everyone there was like from at least the town that I was

and it's like, hey, you're either going to like, you know, maybe take. over the small business of your parent, you know, work at Stryker or like work at one of the big automobile places in Detroit. Like it wasn't a lot of opportunity. At least nothing that I wanted to do or apply myself. I didn't see myself in big corporate. So I packed up my Prius at the time. Nice.

And I was two days after I graduated college. I just drove out to California and got some disgusting, you know, apartment that was like as cheap as I could find that I pulled up and I was like, oh, this is in the ghetto. Great. This is good for like a single, you know, like 21-year-old. old girl. And I moved there. And then I was like, okay, I need to get a job within walking distance. I don't want to pay for gas too much because like I have like $8,000 at this point, which when rent is like $1,500 a month, you're like, okay, this isn't going to last too long with like food and all the other

things. So I went and I applied to every gym nearby and I was like, I'll just start working at a gym at first because like I know I could get a job at a gym. And then I'll learn sales. I'll learn sales for the gym. And then eventually I'll learn more about business and have my own business. I didn't know what kind of business, but I just knew I want some kind of business. So I ended up getting a job at all the places I applied. And so I tried like a couple of them out for a couple of weeks. And I ended up staying with 24-hour fitness. Why are you looking at me like that?

I'm just curious. Why 24-hour fitness out of all of the other locations? Well, I won't say the name of some of them, but like one of them I went to. And, you know, within like the first few days, I was like, oh, you know, they were basically like, hey, you need to pull down your shirt a little bit, hike up those shorts and you're going to get those Indian men over there. And I was like, that's not how I flow, man. Okay. So like, I get that that's like extremely. extremely advantageous in the fitness industry.

A lot of women are totally fun like doing that. I don't judge them for doing that. That's just like not me. I just never want to do that. That's not how I want to, like I want to prove that I'm good at business, not that I can use my body to get business. So I actually end up sticking with 24 because I really like the manager there.

He was really encouraging and he was like, dude, I can train you so much. And like I can, you know, teach you my skill set. And he was like, he'd basically taken that gym and made it like the top 24 hour fitness for personal training. So I was like, okay, I'm going to learn how to sell here. And so I ended up. going there and within the first, you know, basically there's like 20 other people that they hired around the same time. And I remember they told me they like, you need to go out and get referrals. You need to get like, I don't remember it was like 15 or 20 referrals. I didn't even know if that was a

lot or not at that point in time. But basically in order to do that, you have to go up to everyone in the gym and just ask for someone's like name and phone number. And I had no idea at the time that it was even hard to do that or like a thing. And so I think it's really interesting because a lot of people say like, oh, I'm bad at sales. I'm like, but if you don't know you're selling, which I didn't know how I was like selling or getting leads at that point in time, it wasn't that hard. And so I end up being the person that collected the most. And so whatever, I got the job. Referrals to what? Referrals for, like, from members of the gym for people that would be interested in joining the gym. What was your technique in doing that? Was it just walking up like, hey, man,

how's it going? You got a friend. You have friends? You have any friends? Well, like, how do you, how do you do it? Like, what made you stand out when you were doing that? I honestly just didn't think it was weird. Okay. I just moved there. I was like, I have nothing. to lose. These people don't know me. I have no reputation here. Like, what am I going to do? Fail? I mean, and that's, there were two girls that were like crying outside the building. I was like, I went up to someone. Why are you crying? They're like, I don't want to go talk to strangers and I was like, I just don't want to be that person. So I was like, I'm just going to go up and I'm just going to be like, hey, my name's Layla. I'm new here. I'm curious if you have

any friends that are interested in joining the gym. That's it. Like, just nice and not weird. You know, I think a lot of people get like really weird because they're nervous and then it makes it worse. Yeah. So anyways, I end up working there for, I don't know, maybe like 18 months. And then I realized, you know, it was basically like, as soon as you sell enough people that you're full, which became my roster, like my roster was full, then they just have you, you know, selling for other people. And I was like, this is a waste of my time. Like it's basically like, come in as early as possible before you're training, you know, eight sessions a day, sell for other people. And I was like, I don't want to do that. Did you get paid to beef up other people's rosters? I mean, yeah, you do get paid for it, but you don't get paid ongoing, so it's not very appealing to me. And I also didn't think a lot of the trainers were that good. Okay. Yeah. It didn't. feel ethical. And so I was like, okay, one thing that I learned from the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I read that like in the back room of the training. I remember it said like, work to learn not to make

money when you're young. And so I was like, okay, I have learned enough here. I get it. I get how this works. I don't want to move up the corporate ladder. They like tried to get me to do all that. And I was like, okay, I heard about this guy who had this really great gym and people like, he's like a fantastic leader and he really knows how to run a business and like he has a ton of clients. and I was like, oh, I want to go learn from that guy. And so I ended up reaching out to him, I want to say, like 18 months into working at 24. And then, you know, didn't interview, did a couple. And it was obvious we got along really well.

And so I went and worked at his gym. And at the same time, I started building up like a roster of online clients because my former coach, because I competed in bikini competitions, she was like, you should do this too. I'll feed you a few clients and then you bring your own. And so I was like, okay. So then I started kind of doing both, like learning from her in terms of like online and how that works and how you like get clients online. And then learning from him in terms of like, how do you run a business? Which that's what I really got to see when I moved there.

And what it allowed me to see was that really interestingly enough is that the same effort it takes to build a small business, it's the same effort to take a big business. And so looking at like 24 hour and looking at the small business, I was like, it's almost harder to have small business even because there's less opportunity for people. So like less people want to work there because it's a smaller business. So they have less opportunity or less runway to like build something for themselves in there. You know what I mean? So you see a lot of turn in small businesses, which makes sense because they're small. So like the vision has to be small as well. So if people have a big vision for themselves, they don't want to work at a small business, which is interesting.

So anyways, I worked there. And then about not long into it, like I want to say seven months. I was on Bumble. And I basically at this point, I was like, man, I've been single for a little while. I'd been dating when I was in Michigan. When I went to California, I was like, I just want to build up my career. like I want to be successful and that was all I really cared about. So I didn't really care about dating and I didn't really like the guys in the area either

because they just wanted some girl that would like shut up and sit and look pretty. And that's not really me. So I got on Bumble and I remember my sales manager was like, listen, it's like this is just like sales. He's like, it's a numbers game. And I was like, that's completely true. And so I committed to basically like every day when I had lunch, I was like I'll sit and just swipe for 30 minutes. Just like, that's it.

It's just like swiping and deciding. And so I did that and I went on, gosh, I think I would. did this for like, I don't even know how long until I finally met Alex. I think it was like maybe 13 or 14 months. How many dates was that in 13, 14 months? A lot. I mean, at least one a week. That's a lot.

Wow. How many of this resulted in a second date? Not many. Really? Okay. Maybe like three. Okay. Yeah, there was like one guy.

You know, I went on like maybe like eight or nine dates with and like, you know, just that kind of stuff. Okay. Yeah, not too many. What did you learn going on all of these dates? People are weird. No, I'm kidding. People?

I mean, I think what it reinforced for me is just that it is a number team. Like, a lot of people like, I just, you know, you hear women all the time. They're like, I just can't find a man. I'm like, how hard have you tried? Like, did you swipe for 14 months? That's probably not. Yeah. But you know what?

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basis. Since market timing is pretty much impossible, this allows you very simply, mind you, to buy in. All you got to do, by the way, is specify what you want to buy, how much you want to buy, how often you want to buy it, swipe right, and you're done, and you get free crypto on every single trade you make over $10. So definitely check them out with that link down below in the description. Yep. And now with that said, let's get back to the podcast. Again, the link is down below in the description. I think also what I learned is like, most people are not picky in terms of what they look for in a significant other. Because most guys were like, well, we're going to go on another date. And I was like, no. And they were like, what? I'm like, you don't want what I want. This is not a match. This is clearly not a match, but they were like totally okay with it. And I was like, that's so odd. Do you know what you're looking for? Like, have you thought about what you want in this person? And it's like, I would ask them, I'd be like, have you thought about what you want in like a girlfriend?

And they're like, I mean, you look good. You look good and you talk. Yeah, I don't know. And I was like, okay. And so I think I was just looking for something a little more specific, which like I always knew. I was like, I want someone that's equally as powerful. Like I don't want to be in every relationship before. I met Alex, I was always like the dominant one in a relationship.

And I realized I was like, I don't really want that. I want someone who's almost more dominant than me or at least could be equally powerful. And I'm like, that is something cool. And I think when that was probably also when like power couples started trending on Instagram and stuff and Twitter. And so that was what I was really looking for. And so at this point, you know, basically what happened was I swiped on Alex and he messaged me or no, I messaged him because it was Bumble. And so the girl also messengers the guy first. And then, you know, it was basically like he's like, this is stupid being on this platform.

Let's talk on the phone. I was like, amazing. I don't want to talk on this platform. He is such a waste of time. And so he called me and we talked for like 20 minutes and he was like, I consider this to be like our first date. And I was like, amazing. This is so efficient. So basically we got like all the questions out of way.

It's very efficient. Did he have a checklist? What did he say to you? I feel like he must have had like a. What did you guys consist up? Like what did you guys talk about? Yeah. Um, I think it was mostly like.

What are your qualifications? So where did you? How many hours a day do you work? Yeah. What's your sales to, you know, close ratio? Yeah, right. You know, it's like, do you want kids? Do you want to get married?

What do you see for your life? Like, all the basic questions that that would be reasons that people would break up later that they don't talk about in the beginning. We just talked about that on the first phone call. And so, you know, some of it, we weren't completely aligned on at that point in time, but we found each other enough interesting that I think we were like, yeah, let's go on a date. So then it was just like, let's go meet for pro you tomorrow. You kind of went with the flow and Alex kind of initiated that phone call thing.

I would imagine being a guy on a dating app. That's not a very effective way to find a significant other. It's just immediately ask for a phone call and ask questions, like aspirations in life. I don't know. I mean, I think it might be. I don't know. You're weeding out all of the people, I guess, that, like, you wouldn't want to do this. Also, like, I mean, think about, like, I don't know.

I think also, like, how attractive someone is is going to have something to do with the two because, like, a lot of women will put up a lot, guys will put up with somebody's good looking. That's a good thing. A dating app would do really well if they had a questionnaire that you would fill out first. that would filter out stuff like that. Like, do you want to get married? Do you want to have kids? Like, how do they do?

Yeah, like match.com and, well, I guess so. Yeah, I guess so. But like a, like a Tinder. No, no. You would have to use as eHarmony or Match.com. No, I don't think so. But like, I actually tried signing up then. But like for a Tinder, if you, just 10 questions, right?

Like, what are your political views? Would you date someone with differing viewpoint? Like stuff like that, right? Yeah. I think the building system would be useful. Yeah. You know what I think would be really, really, cool. I'm not single. I'm married now, but I'm never the type of person that would go to bars or

clubs and everybody's meeting people there. And I also don't like online places. But I think it'd be cool if you went to a place and like, uh, I don't, it could be like fun too. So, uh, it's like a restaurant, but maybe you're seated with other people. And it, you could do like single matching or you could do like group matching and meet new friends or something. I don't know, something like that I think would be cool for the friend match. Uh, kind of. Yeah, but in person. Yeah. That makes sense. I would I can attend that. Huh. It could also be used for, like, meeting potential dates, too,

because you could do, like, a, just like a two-seater table, you know, you could be single and then have another single person. Or you can go with a group of friends and meet, you know, more friends and get to know about them over dinner because I don't go to clubs and stuff. Sounds lovely, actually. I like doing the online stuff. It is efficient. Yeah, you could just scope people out ahead of time.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Then we went for Froyo the next day, which I tried to get out of. And he was like, no. Why try to get out of it? I said I was sick or something. I think I was hungover. Really?

So nothing to do with Alex. So you were hungover. You said you were saying, I literally never drank. And it was like a friend's birthday. And it was the first time like 18 months I drank. And so I was like, I'm sick. He's like, you sound fine. Let's go.

I was like, okay. I just liked how assertive he was. He said you sound fine. Let's go. Yeah. That sounds like him though. Yeah. Just like it.

It baffles me. It baffles me every time. But could you get away with that, Jack? No, you sound fine. Let's go. I like that. Jack can not get away with that. I don't think I can't do that.

You have to have the confidence to do that. I think about this, right? Like, I'm a woman who, like, I've been looking for a man who can actually, like, be more assertive with me. Everyone I've dated has been passive. I've always over-dominated those people. So, like, to have somebody who's finally like, no, we're going to go do this. I'm like, I like that. That's nice.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so he ended up not forcing you, but, like, really compelling. Yeah. Yeah. So selling you into this fro. Pitch dude. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So then we went to Froyo the next day. And we didn't talk about like relationships at all. We actually just talked about business all time. So we like walked for four hours. We had the Froyo. I don't even think he liked me in the very beginning actually.

Actually, I know he didn't because he walked up and I have a giant back tattoo. And he saw my back tattoo. And when he said hi, he was like, hey. I was like, no smile? I was like, this is so odd. Right? And I was like, maybe he's having a bad day. I don't know.

And then we went inside and he ate. And then afterwards I find out too that, you know, and his blood sugar is low. He's very cranky. So I think after you ate it, it helped. But then he told me, he's like, why do you have a giant back tattoo? And I was like, I don't know, I was 18. Yeah. I felt like getting it.

What was his response to that? Struck it off, I think. All right. He's like, whatever, I'm here, right? Matchy's like, you could get that removed. What are your plans tomorrow? You'll get that removed. Yeah, I met his dad.

The first time I met his dad, he came from behind. He sees me. He goes, we can get this removed. It doesn't even say hi. No. He just goes, we can get this removed. Wow. Which, by the way, I, where Alex gets it from.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Have you gotten it removed? No, dude, I went through like one session. And the guy was like, he was like, well, we could do it now, but you won't be numb. But like, if you come back, you know, we can numb, but it's going to be a few weeks out because I'm booked. I was like, bad is it?

He was like, it's not that bad, you know? And I was like, okay, it's only my whole back. Let's just try. So he did like a little thing. And I was like, wow, it's terrible. And I was like, just do it. So I sat there and like, no, it was the worst pain I've ever had my life. I always thought that they should have just one massive laser for something like that instead of doing that and it's just.

And it's just like, you know, and it just does the entire session right there. Yeah. You know, you bite on a towel or something. Like, you just knock me out. Like, this is actually like pretty aggressive. It feels like bacon grease is just popping on your mat. Really? That's what it feels like.

Yeah. Identical. I've always been so curious in what it's like. Yeah, I've heard it's very painful. Oh, I would not. I was like, I must. Yeah. Numbing heated cream is like.

I get those videos recommended to me on TikTok now. Yeah. Because I started watching them. It's so addicting to be, like they just go through the, like, they just go through the, like, like, I want us to just. watch it done. You know? It's interesting.

And it was just sweat. Like, and Alex, like, he almost told the guy to stop because he was there. And I was just, like, convulsing because it,

like, the way that it hits your nerves. And so you just, like, you like, you like, is this thing like, straight up shoulders to like,

you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's angel wings. Wow. Okay. Super techy.

So Alex, so Alex, when he was on here, I think he mentioned that pretty early on in the first couple dates. I think he might have said, like,

the second date. he said that he had you like do something for for like a business he was running or something and that you just like kind of went along with it so how did that come up what did you think going on you know one of the first dates with this person and just being like told like hey I'm working on this rope did this yeah how did that make you feel and did you feel intimidated or did you think did you like that he took charge um intimidated no I actually was like he asked me to pick up all the cash from his That's what it was, yeah, oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm more like, call him. I was like, bro, I was like, you don't even know me. I was like, why you asked me to pick up the cash? I was like, I'm happy because he was out of town. He was like, I have to drop by the bank by this day. You think you could help me out. And I was like, that's a lot of money.

Like, you don't even know me. And he was like, I know you won't steal. And I was like, interesting. And I picked money. I was like, if I were not a good person, I was like, I don't know. So I mentioned to Alex, I kind of thought, you know, that was him being like, yeah, Pick up my cash from the gym. Yeah.

A hundred grand here. This guy's really killing it. You know, you take it to the bank. Do you think, what was it just you needed a hand with this? I mean, I think that he was trying to figure out if he wanted. He was like, because, you know, basically on the first day, he's like, we should work together. Like, I want to start this new business. You seem like you can sell and you understand business and you like all this.

He's like, you should do it with me. And I was like, we just met. Like, I just feel like, I was like, this a lot. Like, I'm doing these other things. I'm not sure. And so I think he like kept slowly trying. to just like get me to like start working and doing stuff with him. So I feel like it was a little bit of that and just like necessity.

Like I don't think like we both didn't have like a ton of friends at that point in time. So it was like we gone on three dates and might as well. Did you worry that maybe there's something illegal going on? Like he's having you go and pick up cash from different locations and like bring it somewhere. Did that never cross your mind? No, they were gyms. I like went in. There's like people training people.

Jim. Yeah. That's the cover, right? Yeah. Interesting. The real Alex was exposed on this episode of nice coffee. But first, Alex and I want to thank today's sponsor, Moomu. Mumu helps you monitor market movements, perform deep technical analysis,

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So that was like the second date ever, basically. He already hired you to go pick up some cash for him. And then how did this evolve into what it is today and now you guys are building these crazy, huge businesses? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, basically we started gym launch. And after Alex got rid of all his other businesses because he had like a bazillion, and that was very like it took a ton of attention from him and so I actually end up you know fast forward I end up six weeks into us knowing each other uh quitting the gym that I was at uh stopping anything

with online personal training and I just went all in on gym launch and then I think it took him probably close to like a year to shed everything that he was doing um but he did because it was also like every time that he like was like I don't know if on grids was like did I quit my job and like I gave all my clients to do this because of this idea and so I think it was it was really really cool once he finally got those things off his plate. And then we realized that we have really great complementary skill sets. And I think that evolved over time because in the beginning it was like I, we both could kind of do the same thing.

So we just split stuff up. And then as gym launch ended up taking off, which it was just a concept for 18 months, you know, it was basically just like eating shit. And then 18 months in, and we changed the model. And then it just took off. You know, we stopped flying people out to the gyms. And instead we started, we turned it into basically like an education business or a licensing model where we licensed the IP to them and then we coached them through the program.

And that was when we said, okay, we're not going to be able to do the same thing and split it anymore. We're going to kind of split roles because we understand that's what a business needs and order to function. And so that's when basically, you know, we wrote everything on a whiteboard that happens with the business and it was like marketing, sales, finance, HR, ops, you know, customer success, tech, all that. And then one of our friends just circled marketing and like, this is Alex. And then all the rest is Layla. And they were like, that's how you split it. And I was like, okay. And that was what kind of stemmed how we work together and then like me going into learning

the other parts of a business because I understood marketing and sales fairly well at that point, not as well as him because he had his six gyms, right? So he'd had to market and sell for those. But I understood it better than most people. But I didn't understand literally anything else. And so that's when I just went into learning and like investing in, you know, reading books and studying, like how do you run the rest of a business? How do you grow and scale a business?

And that became kind of my hat. And then his hat, you know, continued and always went further into marketing. And it's just worked incredibly well. And, like, we actually really enjoy doing it together. And so we just haven't stopped. At one point did you guys start, like, dating, though? Because it seems like in the beginning it was like a business venture. I mean, it's kind of weird, honestly, because, like, we were dating during the whole first year, but, like, more working together.

Listen, this is the thing. Me and Alex, both, our ambitions are always going to be what's most important to both of us. And so I think until we realized that we were both useful in terms of the same. of helping each other achieve your ambitions, it's kind of like our ambitions are always going to be first. But once you realize that that person is going to actually help you achieve your ambitions, putting that person first and partnering with them and putting the partnership first becomes more of a priority. Does that make sense? Yeah. And how long would you say it took for that to occur where you put each other before the ambition? Maybe two and a half years.

Wow. Two and a half years. It's not like a normal relationship, which I'm like totally aware of, but it works. So how did you then scale this business? And what was your role exactly? Yeah. So we had the titles of co-CEOs. And so how we divided it was really Alex is top of funnel. So he's going to make it rain, right? That's always what Alex is going to do.

In Jim Watch specifically, Alex also was like the face of the product for the beginning. So until we brought in like coaches and had them basically redo all the product, he was the face of the product. So he was like in all the videos. So Alex is in all the videos. He was running the marketing and I did the rest of it. And so that's how we've always split it because. He's definitely somebody who like, he needs to focus on one thing. So it's like, I always, in any business that we start, I'm like, I'm going to try and get Alex like in a corner focusing on one thing.

That's what he likes doing. Like he likes writing his books. He likes promoting. He likes making content. Like he likes doing that stuff. I like the rest of it. I like the people stuff. I like building teams.

I like hiring leaders. I like doing all of those things. And so that's how we've run all the businesses. In terms of gym launch, it was a little bit in the beginning of us overlapping. And then learning that we had to let go of things in order to be more effective. just as a business. You know, it's like we had to define our own roles, have our own job descriptions. You know, basically like if you look at if we weren't in a relationship, how would we run the

business? That's just what we did because we're like, that's going to make the business successful. As if we're partners that we clearly define our roles and then we give each other autonomy to make decisions in those areas. So that makes sense? Yeah. How often do you guys get disagreements? And if you are at a stalemate, who makes that decision?

We actually were given a really great piece of advice early on, which was if you don't agree, don't move forward. And so people ask us that all the time, especially if they're interested in working for us. They're like, how do you guys as co-founders and as a married couple make decisions? We're like, there's honestly not one like final decision maker. We just wait until we agree on something. Like we continue to work the idea or the problem until we both like it and then we move forward. And that means like I can think of the biggest time that we had a disagreement was with Allen launching the software company, which I think I've talked about this before.

But basically like I just when we had a minimum viable product, I looked at. to everything that had to happen in order to make it a scalable business. And I was like, I don't think it's worth it. I think we're going to incur like millions and dollars. We'd all have put like four million dollars into this thing. And I was like, it's going to cost way more. And I don't think that we're going to see the return we want. And the market moves so fast in tech.

And tech is not our strong suit that I didn't believe it was like a great, you know, venture. And he was like, I think it is. And because he's always more optimistic. I'm usually more pessimistic. And so we like locked ourselves in a room for like three days. And then finally I was like, screw it. Like, okay, the deal was that we would launch it. And we would try and

build it and scale it, but if it didn't become profitable, within four months, we would shut it down. And so, like, it's kind of funny because literally like at month two, I was like, dude, it's not looking good. And he was like, he just like dove in and it became extremely profitable. And so we ended up growing it to an extent and then selling it. But we sold it because, again, it just wasn't our strong suit. So we always look back. We're like, who was right?

Who was wrong? It's like neither nor, right? But it did make money. So it made a profit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it ended up doing that. It was just very painful is probably the right word. Sure.

Because we don't have, we're not like technical experts. You know, like I'm great at running a business and the operation side of things and he's great at marketing. And there was no product person. And so if we had started with a product person, I think it would have done like, I think it would have crushed. But we just, we didn't do that. We didn't know. Yeah. Now what about the decision to sell everything, scale back?

How involved were you in that process? What were your thoughts on that? Super involved. I actually, you know, I think that he probably wanted to like sell the house before me. I think part of it was like wanting to feel like, like I had for a long time or at least for like a few years of our marriage, it's only been like six years. You know, I had this image of like I want to be like of the perfect CEO, the perfect wife, the perfect, you know, employer, the perfect boss, like all these things. And part of being like the perfect wife and the perfect like, I don't know, just human that I was in. was like having this huge house that was like very impressive that people could walk into.

And so I think finally what was like the tipping point for me was realizing how much of my attention was going to that house. And I think one of my friends I was talking to her one day about it. And she's like, do you know how much more valuable your attention is on the business? And I was like, I agree with you. And so I think at that point then it just became a nuisance to me because I was like, I'm so sick taking care of this. Like I'm not a traditional wife. And I think it was like I resisted that for a long time because I'm around all these other wives who like they don't run businesses. They don't, they're like, they run a business with their husband.

But like, they don't run the business with their husband. They're actually like doing something else. And like they have lots of free time to take care of the house, which is great. That's just not me. And I think for a long time I didn't accept that about myself. Once I accepted it, I was like, screw this. I was like, I'm not cooking dinner anymore. I don't want this house.

I don't want this car because I want to take care of this. And so now I realize there are other other ways to do that. But I, in hindsight, I'm glad that we did it because it was like a fresh start. And it's also because like, you know, we knew that we were going to sell the businesses. And I was like, I want a fresh start. I feel like I'm like gym-laught Layla in this house. And Acquisition.com Layla doesn't live in this house. She doesn't do this shit.

She doesn't cook this dinner like this. She doesn't do any of this. And so it's much easier to change your life if you change your environment. At least we both tend to think that. And so, you know, moving, selling the house, getting rid of all cars and everything, like just doing a fresh start. I think it was like really good for turning the page to the next chapter. Yeah. And now you're living in middle of Las Vegas Strip.

What is that like? I was awful. In a hotel. Yeah. I didn't like it at all. But Alex had always wanted to try Las Vegas. And I was like, listen, I'm flexible. And like, I just always am one of those people.

I'm like, I'm not going to not try something once. So we got like a lease. And I was like, what is it? I can do anything for a year. And so we moved there. At first I didn't like it because it was very loud and very like busy. And now it's odd. It's like I actually really like it.

Really? Yeah. What do you like the most about it? Everybody always comes to Las Vegas and everybody always stays on the strip. So the amount of like networking, the amount of people that we can see and things that we can do, the amount of activities that there are that you can do on the strip. I actually really like that. And so it's like if people come in, you know, you know where to take them, you know what to do,

there's lots that you can do. You don't have to like entertain people in your home. And I love being able to walk to everything versus, you know, we were kind of isolated in the suburbs before when we were in Austin, which I was not a big fan of. I would find it so weird just to like take an escalator or take an elevator down and like there's thousands of people that are just a few stories below you. It seems just an odd mindset. Yeah. Yeah. People think of the strip.

They think of like, you know, the mirage. And like we live in the other side. It's a little nicer, a little more quiet. So it's like our like very intermediate surrounding area is more of the nicer side of the strip, which I don't want to talk about what it is. But yeah. That's fair. I want to talk a little bit more about business operations because you say that's kind of what you do with now it's acquisition.com.

Previously was Jim launch. Yeah. What do you think you're uniquely good at within business operations and how did you get good at those things? You said hiring was one of them. you think that you're yeah i think i think i think probably good at picking people i think i'm fairly probably more competent than most people at hiring for sure um and then also managing people like i really think that's it i think it's just like it's building the team right and i think that doing that and aligning it with the strategy of the business is something that i feel really good at doing like i can

i know where the business our projections are for like three to five years from now and i'm like oh i know what the team's going to look like i can map it out on a piece of paper and do that. I would say it's probably like my bigger advantage. I'd be interested of what my team would say, actually. What do you look for in a person? Like, is there quality? Yeah. And how do you build out the team and the culture of the team? Yeah. It starts with you, which is like the weird, okay, what I hate is that there's like an art and a science. This right? The culture is the art side. And I think that a lot of people, there is obviously science. There's like, you know that in hospitality, efficiency is everything. That's why their system lets you

take payments, track sales, handle inventory, manage staff, send invoices, and keep up with finances all in one place. Fly through orders with zero mistakes. Get the data you need and keep everything working together. So you're ready for whatever's next. Learn more about their customizable plans at squareup.com. You can do these things, but if the heart isn't there and the intention isn't there, that's not going to happen.

And so I think a lot of times it's very misconstrued because people see like a Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk and they're like, oh, the culture and all these things. I'm like, but he's, he's honestly an outlier. Most people that have very big businesses are just people of like elite character. Because people want to, people that have elite talent want to work for people with elite character. Right. So if you think about it, like I think about my job, I don't need to be the smartest person in the room. But I need to be of sound enough mind and competent enough that the smartest person in the room wants to work for me.

And that I've created a big enough vision that their vision for however smart they are, can fit within mind. So I look at that as my job. I'm like, that's what I do. And I think that when you think about building a culture, oftentimes it's just, it continues, the culture is like you start at the top and it just continues dilute all the way down. And the culture is really just the mission and the vision and the values of the co-founder or of the founder or of the person that's, you know, whatever, head-hant of the business,

whatever you want to call them, right? And so it just continues to drip down. And so the more potent you can be in terms of how you exemplify those values in that mission, the more that you can repeat it over and over again. the stronger a culture you're going to have because it's going to the next level is going to be like a little diluted and then like a little more diluted and then like a little more so the bigger the organization that's why you see that people lose the mission and the values it's unless you make it in immense effort and it starts with the person at the top unfortunately it's like nobody's going to exemplify those values more than the person at the top it's like you think about it's just i've seen it so many times it's just nobody will work for you that has better values they will go find somebody else has better values and within operations of a business if you see that dichotocom of like culture and talent, would you be able to say one is more important than the other? That's a good question. I thought of that question.

I think that without culture, talent fails. Interesting. So you think it becomes a very cold environment. So you think culture is probably more important than talent? Yeah. I'm just wondering, it's like if you're building a business or if I'm trying to create a team, how can I radiate that, that positive culture that you're saying or like constantly be instilling the values of the company into the employees of the company. Is it like actual like

board meetings? Like more specifically, what exactly is it? Yeah, like tactically, if you're looking at it, like it really is down to the tactics, which is like first you start with, you know, quarterly meetings. Like this sounds so late. But like that's really a dude. It's like you have an annual meeting. You've got quarterly meetings. In each of those, you're reiterating the mission, the vision, the values over and over again. And you're showing how all of the goals of the business tie into those values, tie into that mission. And so those values and that mission are actually decision-making filters to decide, are these the priorities that we need to follow as a company?

Do they align with the values? And do they relate to the mission? If the mission is we want to help 1,000 women lose weight. And someone says, well, I want to start a men's weight loss program. It's like, but it's helped women lose weight, not men. So that means that decision's out. And so a lot of people just think they're like these foo-foo things. I'm like, no, these are the principles that we use to make decisions for the company.

And so they should always be prominent because that's what, so I'll give you an example, right? With Acquisition.com, it's sincere candor, unimpeachable character, and then competitive greatness. And so every time we're picking a CEO portfolio company, we run them through that filter. We have a scorecard, and it literally has those as the filter. It's like, do they fit those values? Would they be something that we're proud to associate with? Do they have sincere candor? Are they being transparent with us?

And then do they want more of the money? Are they actually competitively great? And the same goes for hiring is that I have a little scorecard. It's like, do they fit the values? And that's always the first question. It's like, it doesn't matter how skilled they are. If they don't fit the values, they just can't work here. And so I think it's that.

And then when I talk about those quarterly meetings, those get broken down into, you know, on a monthly basis, I think that most companies should be running what I call like a vision meeting, which is again, reiterating the vision. It's just repetition of the vision to the entire company. And then talking about the vision, breaking it down to the actual mission and then the values. And then giving examples of decisions that were made that month that relate to that. It's like, hey, guys, we decided not to do this because of this value. And then calling people out. It's like, Sally actually did this month, which relates to our value number two. You know, Harry didn't do this because he realized it didn't relate to our value or it didn't tie into our mission.

Do that make sense? That makes sense. It's like you're just always using those as like the guiding light and tying every decision back to them of why we do or do not do something in a company. That's really interesting. You have like your overarching goal or mission and every action that is taken within the business should always be serving that main goal. Absolutely. I think we could do that a little bit better. Probably do that better.

Because you said like quarterly meetings within. Within us, it's like we go out, we do dinners on occasion. Like, I'm seeing Graham fairly often. I'm seeing Alex like fairly often. We never like allocate or reserve time specifically to just discuss the intricacies of the business. I feel like that's what we always talk about though. It's what we talk about. But I feel like it's it's more conversational than it is like an actual, yo, we're doing a business.

You know what I mean? Yeah. What is the mission? Well, that's a great question. That's a great question. I'll defer this one to you, Graham. So glad you asked this question, isn't it, Jack? Yeah. It's a great question, Alex.

I don't know. To be honest, I mean, the mission has always been continue having fun and growing. I mean, I always put just enjoyment over anything. Okay. So just, I mean, obviously it would be cool to hit a million subscribers, but I think you have to enjoy it. And for me, it's really enjoyment first. And as long as I see growth month over month, as long as we're, you know, on an upward trajectory, we're continuing to do well and just growing. happy with it. I think it's growth for me. I would say like the overall mission of the ice coffee are getting on as many platforms as possible, getting as many views, having on the best quality

guests that we can, providing the most like amount of entertainment and educational value for the viewers, just growth. Why is growth important? Because I think that happiness is derived from growth and productivity. I think I like, I like watching the progress to me. It's a bit like a challenge to see month over month or even like, you know, six months over six months. Are we doing better if not why and try to figure that out. It's like a piece of a puzzle that you could figure out and grow. But I think at the end of the day for me, it's just like, do you have fun doing it? Is it something that I look forward to?

And if it's a yes, then I continue doing it. I think that's a value. Like the fun piece is totally a value. Like we have a company and their values, pig in the mud fun, right? But they have like a huge vision. It's just like, hey, if we're not having fun, like, we want to make sure we have fun while we get there. Values are basically constraints of how you get to the vision. So it's like we can get to a billion dollar company or make this, you know, somehow turn it into a billion dollar company as long as we're having fun.

Because that's a constraint we're putting on ourselves. Like, hey, we're going to get there, but we have fun along the way. If we're not having fun, that's not aligned with the mission. So that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

It seems to be deep in thought, Jack. It would be interesting if you actually like wrote it down and you were like, this is our mission. And like, because here's a thing is at some point, you're going to hit a million subscribers. You're going to hit these numbers you're talking about. And then what? Then you just bump it up. Then it turns it to have fun. That's a goal or a KPI.

A mission is something above that. It's like why even set the goal or KPI? Sure. What's the greater vision beyond it? You know what I mean? Like it's usually very amorphous and that's totally fine. But it's just like you can attract better people, better talent and then like align with that. I feel like you guys already have anything that's just not written down.

Structured. Yeah. Great suggestion. Yeah. Yeah. Honing it in. Yeah. It gives people so much clarity because so many opportunities come in it to every business owner.

They come their way. And people always like, how do you say no to opportunities? I'm like, I just run it through a decision filter. It's like, does it align with the mission or the values. If it does, then maybe it makes sense for us to pursue. If it doesn't, then we say no to it. Even if it's a great opportunity, it's not our opportunity. Yeah.

I'll say one thing that's kind of interesting is if we record a podcast and I think that podcast did like, or I think that it was extremely entertaining or extremely educational and it doesn't perform that well. It still makes me feel better than an episode where I feel like we didn't do that much, but it still gets a lot of views. I will say that. So maybe it is just providing as much value as possible. I get that because I make videos that like nobody watches, but I'm like, so good.

It's very valuable. Yeah. Yeah. You were telling us, though, that you don't even watch YouTube. You don't watch TikTok. You stay off of all of that. I forget what we mentioned. Oh, it was a mukbang.

We were talking about doing a mug bang. I don't know what that is. I don't even know what that is. I don't watch YouTube. I'm like, muckbang, you know? Is there a reason why you stay away from like TikTok or YouTube? It's not like a tool that's helping me get to my goals. You run it through the decision filter.

It's not. I don't have a, if I need to learn something, I will pick like what platform I could probably find something on. I will go learn it. But it's not like, I don't like have fun on social media. Like for me, social media is like I only think about putting out content that adds value to other people. And that's the only like purpose I see social media for.

I don't see it for like my own entertainment if that makes sense. That's interesting because I always find it really interesting when people that are really successful at social media don't consume social media because I feel like you need to consume social media in order to see what is good. That's why I think. Yeah. I would grow way faster. I study like all the time.

I'm like always trying to network and talk to other like podcast producers and stuff like that. Even studying podcasts and like how they break down their conversation. Like I'm always looking at stuff like that. And I would imagine it's pretty hard to try to scale on social media if you weren't like allowing yourself or consuming any of it. Yeah. But that's not my goal. I mean like I'm putting stuff out there because I think that it's I want to represent the other side of our business. Like me and Alex talked about when we started access.com, which is, it's basically like the two of us split the role of CEO.

And so people only see what he does and they assume that's all I need to be successful. And we talked about it. We're like, when we start access to com, I was like, I want to put a presence out there. But it's not my number one priority right now because I'm growing and scaling our business. And so like my team is my priority right now. And like growing the team and growing the portfolio companies. And I would sacrifice social media any day to make sure that I put them as a priority. So it's just like what's my priority?

It would be his priority, right? Because like Alex is more top of funnel than I am. It's like it should for sure be his. He's on the platforms way the more than me. He understands marketing to a different extent than I do. I listen to what he says. I listen to our team. I listen to like Caleb and Quinn and everyone that we have.

And I look to them. I'm like, what do you guys think? Like what content do you think I should be making? That's what I asked them because I'm like, I don't know. What's valuable? So what is your goal over the next 10 years? Your mission. Yeah.

I want to be the CEO of Acquisition.com when it hits a billion. And how are you going to do that? How are you going to get to a billion? It's fairly, I mean, there's a lot of different ways that we could do it. So, I mean, we could have, I think it's 100 companies doing, you know, 30 million a year. We could have, you know, 50 companies that are each doing 40 or 50 million a year. I mean, like, there's a lot of different ways math-wise. It works out.

I think right now what we're doing is we're taking minority interest in smaller companies. And so it's like more of a volume game. But what I would like to eventually do is take majority stake in bigger companies. Because here's the thing I've realized is that scaling a smaller company and scaling a bigger company, it's the same work. And like, honestly, I can do both. And so I feel like, but what I have to do is I have to build the team that can do both. Right now, I think our infrastructure supports scaling the companies that are, you know, below 100 million. But I think we can get the level of talent to scale companies beyond 100 million and like take them to, you know, I would

love to get a company to a billion. That would be so same. What sort of companies do you go after? We've actually just broadened it. So it was more service-based educational, et cetera. And at the last quarterly, I was like, I feel like this is very limiting because we can, can take technology. We can take, you know, physical goods. It's just, it's more about the business itself. A lot of technology businesses and physical goods businesses have really crappy margins and really bad economies of scale. And so oftentimes they end up going under because they just, one, they take on like VC money if you're tech. And then if you're a product business, you have like loans and lines of credit constantly going in and out. And so it's like there's not

much left over at the end of the day. And so to reinvest in like building, you know, a talent pool and stuff without taking on more debt, which is not something uncomfortable with asking people to do. It's really hard. And our method of growing a company is basically we want to take it to its organic max before we take it to it's basically like leveraged maximum. So every company has like an organic max where it's like if you've seen an S curve in a company, right, it's like the product is like doing great. It's going up. And then all of a sudden like it starts to go down decline. People start eating away at your market share. Competitors come in. You start to see your clients are leaving for other people. And then the goal is to then basically build a new S

curve and overlap the two. And if you can overlap the two, then you can go from, say, usually the first S-curve for a lot of businesses that I'd be talking to, it'd be like 50 million. And then they get to 50 million. Around 45, they start to see a decline. And they can hit 50 with, like, you know, a ton of grit. And then at that point, it's like you need something new to scale to 100 million and beyond. And so the goal is really to just take them to the organic max.

What it is is that a lot of companies, they don't go to their organic max. They get to like 2, 3 million. And then they're like, we're going to get all this VC money and we're just going to throw money at everything. And the thing is, if you've seen the inside of some of those companies, it takes someone very disciplined to not solve problems with just money. And if you solve problems with just money, the company is basically built on stilts. And how do you help all these businesses scale? Where do you find all the time to do that?

Time? Yeah. Well, we have a team. Okay. So, yeah, we have a team. It's not like it's just me and Alex. It's not at all. How big is your team?

Uh, 12. It's mostly comprised of consultants. So people who specialize in like strategy and certain areas of business, they can help scale those areas. So that makes sense? It's like you look like McKay. Kinsey or Bain or like some of those firms, that's what we're going for, but like a new kind of consulting P.

Sure. And walk us through an average day now, like what your schedule looks like, how many hours you work? Yeah. Usually I wake up at like five, I want to say. And then I really like to just get to work for like, I don't know, three hours maybe. And then at like eight or nine, I go to the gym. And usually I'm like walking, doing emails.

And then I go lift. then I come back and I shower and then I take calls from usually like I don't like that do them any earlier than 10 if I don't have to because I'd like to get my work done the morning but like 10 to maybe like 5.30 and then I go on a walk and then usually we have some sort of like dinner or event or something in the afternoon and then we do that and then we come home and Alex and I like debrief with each other and then that's it. I have a question. So we had Alex on here. He said he would consider himself a nihilist. Would you consider yourself a nihilist? I don't like identify with that term. I think that... Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one.

For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero, more like Habinier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. I have beliefs that would be aligned with that, but I don't like think about myself or identify. I don't label myself with any labels,

so that's probably actually why. But do we share the same beliefs mostly? But I think he's, Alex is more philosophical than I am. Like I actually try to get out of my head, because I can overthink and go into that really deep. And I don't like to as much. Just like, I don't, think most things matter.

And you can just assign whatever meaning you want to. Like you get to choose whatever meaning that you have and assign it to whatever occurs. I do believe that. I don't think anything has like inherent meaning. But I don't think about that all the time because if you stay stuck in there, it's just like a very, like I don't want to be a, you know, I tell Alex, I'm like, I don't want to be a philosopher. You know, like that's not, that's not my life. Yeah, I want to be a business person. So.

Makes sense. Yeah, yeah. But I do think that serves me. You know, I overheard earlier. and you walked in you saw Bailey the puppy you got a puppy too could you tell us this story you said you just brought a puppy home

Alex wasn't a big fan or something no he loves dogs and that's why he doesn't want one so there was like a period of time right before we got married that Alex and I he basically was like I need to tie up some loose ends or something you like want to talk to like an ex because he had been engaged

before we met and I was like talk to an ex I was like, okay. And so he's like, you know, I'm going to meet her at some place, whatever, and I'm going to like, you know, close things off because they just left it like, maybe we'll get back together because they've been on and off for so long. And I was like, pretty sure we're just breaking up. And so when he was gone, I was like, okay. And I just like went to get my own apartment and I got a dog. And he came back.

And he was like, I close things off. I want to get married. And I was like, wait, what? And I was so confused. I was like, wait, dude, come on. How long was he gone for? Two days? Two days?

Where did he go? Oh, he flew and then came back the next day. Oh, my gosh. But he was previously engaged to this woman. What was there to close off? Did you guys have a discussion? Like, why? Why couldn't me?

That was what I was saying the whole time, right? I was like, okay, you're going to close something off? You know, like, I'm just like sitting there. It seems like a weird thing to just not to say like, you know, she had a text or something like that or like a. Well, you know, I think I don't know much about the situation because I don't, I don't, like, tend to ask about people's pass. I think that it was his situation. He wanted to handle his way. And I think he handled it very maturely, which was that person felt like there wasn't closure.

And so he was like, I feel that she deserves to hear from me in person. And I'm going to tell her why she needs to move on. And she was with somebody else who I think wanted to get married with her. And she was like, do I do I do that? Or do we ever, do we ever have a future? I don't know. He could probably tell it better than me. My memory's not like 100% on it.

Because I was just more like, well, obviously we're broken up. So within these two days, you got your own apartment and a dog. I didn't get the own apartment. I like went and viewed them and then I got a dog because I was like, I wanted a dog. So you thought. I was like, if I'm going to be single, I was going to get a dog? Huh? You thought it was over?

Yeah. But he told you he was just going to come back, right? But how many people when they're like, oh, I have to go close things off with my ex. You're like, okay. You know what I mean? Like I'm, I just was thinking myself. But that's pretty insane. You accepted the fact that it was over.

You got a dog. And then he comes back and like, all right, let's go. You know? Well, I kind of realize that I just like let my own mind get the best of me. Oh. I mean, how many, like, thing about, like, every relationship I'd had prior to that, if somebody had said something like that, like, I did have people who were unfaithful and, like, did things like that. So I was like, oh, I've seen this before. Okay.

But this wasn't the case. You just noticed that as soon as he came back. You know, like, well, I already got the dog. So. Yeah. And I think that was like a huge moment where I gained a lot of trust with him because I was like, he's, I mean, Alex is like, he's never cheated on anyone. He's always been very faithful. He's always been very forthright about that.

He would never do that to somebody. And I always was like, wow, he's very aggressive about this fact about himself when we met. And that kind of showcased it to me because I was like he came back and he was just like, he seemed like much more clear of head. And he's like, I feel like really good about this now. And like I can completely focus on this. Because when we met, he was like, I wasn't really looking for a relationship. I was just looking for a distraction from this relationship that I was like exiting. Yeah.

So that makes sense. How is being married changed a relationship or has it? No. Okay. Has not. Why? I'm curious. I'm engaged.

Yeah. Well, I'm engaged now. So I'm curious if you've seen a shift or something. I think if anything, you just allows you a level of intimacy that's beyond what you had before because there's this, whether it's false or not,

a bigger sense of certainty and security with the person because you're like, we're married. It's almost like a, like, it used to just be like, okay, together and then you could break up. Now it's like together. And it's like if you even had the thought

of break up, you're like, wait, but we're married. It's almost like a stop gap, I want to say. And so you're like, you would have to take things more seriously and like consider things and try much harder

in order to end the relationship. And I do think that most people actually don't try very hard to save relationships. So I do think there's valid. There's validity to it. Okay. What other marriage advice do you have? I don't know why I have advice.

Is everything okay, great, right? Yeah, everything's going to be all. I'm just curious. Everything's going to great, Jack. Yeah. Except when I'm going to tell you about this thing. Don't complain for a second. The way I see marriage is like this.

If you study, I think that marriage is a team sport. And so if you look at the best teams of all time, how do they structure? Like, what do they build? top of. I think it's the same things, which is, it's like you have a shared mission, shared values, and then shared lifestyle or interests, basically. So it's like shared mission is that you're both going towards the same thing in life. There's something that you've decided that you can have your own ways of getting there and you have your own paths, but you both want to end up at the same place. Right. And so you have this goal, this vision that

you can both kind of like ideate over together. Below that is like we have shared values, which is we agree that we abide by these values to get to that vision. Right. So while we're on our paths there, these are the ways that we're going to behave in order to achieve the mission, which is like, say we want to get rich. We're like, oh, we want to have a billion dollars. But it's like, hey, we're also going to be ethical, right? So it's like, we're not going to sell cocaine to get a billion dollars because like we consider

that not to be ethical, right? And then the last piece to it is shared lifestyle or interests, which is a lot of people only have their love for each other in common. They have nothing else in common besides the fact of their attraction or their love for one another. And so they don't have activities or things that they can share and kind of collaborate over outside of that. It's like the only thing in the relationship is actually the relationship itself.

Does that make sense? Yeah. But it's like, what if you looked at them as like, would I be best friends with this person, right? Like, do I have interests and hobbies and things that I can do with them outside of just like, oh, my, I love you so much. And like, you're amazing and let's have sex. I wonder how many viewers you make question their relationship right now because I've never looked at it that way, like the mission above all else and then values and then

interest. But that makes perfect sense. It makes very good sense, actually. I always thought that it was values at the top and then, you know, like shared interest. Yeah, I always think it's commonalities at the top. Yeah. I think mission, that makes sense.

Well, it depends on what kind of life you want to live too. Yeah, it depends on the individual. I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it work for a lot of people of long lasting relationships. So I would like to stay. I mean, like, me and Alex have the same thing,

which like we could just be married to each other for forever. We'd be super excited about that. Which a lot of people don't have that. They're like, hey, I want to be married to multiple people. and like this might only last 10 years. Like, I'm super cool with all that. I would just prefer to be married for a very long time. Just like seems much easier.

Both of us, the vision that we each have for ourselves is of someone who can be married for 50 or 60 years. And why do you want to focus on building this business so much? When is enough enough or is it just always about the growth? Yeah, it's not about accumulation of anything. It's not about money. It's not about power or status.

Like, none of that. It's what else am I going to do with my time? Like, I think that, and I really get it now with Acquisition.com, which is you have to build a vision compelling enough that others can fit their vision inside of it and that you can fit your next vision inside of it. I only see, you know, Layla as she currently stands, able to get this business to, you know, 100 something million. I have to become a different person in order to hit a billion or to hit 10 billion or 30 or 50 billion. And that is super compelling to me because I'm like,

that's a challenge that I would like to figure out. That's something I would like to, and I would like to meet that person. I would like to meet Layla when she has a $10 billion company and be like, how did you do it? What did you have to go through? Like, what kind of person do you have to become and what beliefs did you have to break in order to get there? And so for me, it's about setting a goal so big that I am forced to change and evolve in a positive way as a human in order to get there. And that other people within it also have to do the same because that's what keeps people excited. But that's just because you find personal enjoyment in that. Yeah, I like, I like proving to myself that I'm tough. What if you,

picked up some random hobby, let's say golfing. And you enjoyed golfing way more. Let's just say in this like, this is a theory, right? Spike ball. Spike ball. Sure. Any sort of random thing. You loved it so much for the sake of the argument.

Golfing. Or ping pong in your case. You love ping pong way more than running your business, everything. Obviously you loved Alex, right? Would you stop doing your business in order to do ping pong if you loved it more than your business? Because love is fleeting. It's a feeling.

But, like, logically, what makes sense in order to, for me to evolve as a person, is to have challenge. And that is within the business. Ping pong would not have that. But then wouldn't that mean you love the challenge more than you love ping pong? Maybe. Yeah. There's always someone that's better in ping pong. There's always someone that's better.

Because then I think for you, it's a challenge. But if you were challenged and loved ping pong, assuming all else, then I think it would make sense you would follow ping pong. If I was challenged by ping pong? Yes. And you were loved and challenged by ping pong. you asked. But you made no money. That's yeah.

Yeah. So because if you're saying it's not about the money, there's got to be a component about it that is somewhat money related. Here's what I'm not following. I don't choose things because I love them. Yeah. That makes sense? Why do you choose things?

Because they make sense. Like logically. Like I'm like, this business makes the most sense and is like the most likely vehicle to create the kind of person I want to create that I have to become to run this business. Ping pong logically doesn't. make sense. Like, I don't think I will become that person through the hardships that ping pong is going to bring. Even if I love ping pong, I also love cake. I don't eat cake all day. That makes sense. It does. It makes sense. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do you have a strict diet?

You stick to? No, I used to. I kind of my macros for like 11 years. Really? Because I was really fat, and so I was afraid of getting fat again. How did you get fat to begin with? Was it just something that, you know, just excessive eating, not exercise? I mean, I'm curious. Yeah, okay. Well, it's like people like how did you get fat. I'm like, I ate more than my body. I eat more calories.

Some of it I feel like could be hereditary. Some of it could be hereditary. I don't know. I'm not on it today with my questions. I really not. I feel so odd. I'm going to have hereditary. I inherited their bad habits of food.

It could be. Well, okay. Then that. Yeah, but people love that. No, I mean, my family, you know, my mother was Southern and my dad was Iranian, like, probably didn't have the best food in the house. But, like, I mean, I let myself go. I think, you know, probably when I was like my upper teens, it was bad. I just drank a ton and then would eat out.

And I was just being irresponsible. And I think just for that period of time is almost like, we didn't get out of high school and it's like, oh, my God, I'm free. Like, that's how I felt at least, like not being under the roof of my parents, like, finally being free. I was like, oh, my God. And then I just disregarded everything that I had been doing. and kind of who I was. And that's when I gained more weight. And I went from, like, you know, having some weight to, like, I was fat.

And when you say drinking, you're talking, alcohol? Oh, yeah. Okay. Lots of alcohol. And that has a ton of calories. I don't think about that. How did you move out at 18? You don't see a lot of people just moving out at 18.

Well, unless they're going out to college. Okay. Got it. I went to college. So I went and lived in the dorms. Got it. Yeah. One thing that's kind of interesting to me is when I see people that are, like, exceptional in what they do,

I always wonder, what is the main driving factor of being this. Obviously, it has to be something maybe from childhood or growing up, but you were saying when you were in college, you were okay with college, like you didn't love it or anything, but all the while you were reading Tony Robbins books, right, and trying to like develop yourself, right? Yeah. What do you think it is in your life that caused you to have this, this drive to be exceptional? Is it something that like your value, your parents instilled in you? Is it just a unique thing that maybe is just like 10% of people have it? Or what causes you to have this? I think where it started and where it comes from now are different.

So I think where it started from was, you know, my parents ended up being divorced when I was like, I don't remember, eight or nine. And then I end up living with my mother who then became an alcoholic and like went super down that rabbit hole. And I essentially didn't want to tell anybody because I was, I didn't, you know, it's like it's so funny to say. He's like, I love my dad so much now and he's were really close. But I didn't know him super well back then. Like I felt like he was always at work and such. So they got divorced. I didn't want to live with him.

And so I was instead with my mother, and I didn't want to tell anyone that she had all these issues, and she would, like, leave me at home for long periods of time, and wouldn't come back, and then she would be in the hospital, and then she would, like, I don't know, one time she was just, like, passed out on the driveway, and, like, the police came because the neighbors called, like, just crazy shit like that, right? And so I essentially had to raise myself until I was 15 when she tried to kill herself, and I called the cops, and they came, and then they said, you can't live with her anymore. And so they took me out of dad, and then he was like, what's been going on? And I was like, all of this.

And so I told him. And so I think a lot of it was looking at her as a person and seeing, like, I was like, how do you do that to your kid one? I'm like, how do you like become the mother that like becomes this like crazy alcoholic and like, you know, exposes your kid to all this stuff and leaves them for weeks at a time when they're young, you know, aren't taking care of themselves? And I just wanted to be the opposite of that. Like I was like, I will, I actually remember the moment when I was sitting in the guest room of

my, my mother's house and she like hadn't come. home for like three days and I was calling her again and I was like fuck is she dead like like I always just assumed one time I'm gonna call it she's just gonna be dead or something and I hung up the phone because she didn't answer for like the 18th time and I was like screw this and I was like I'm not gonna be some victim sitting here calling her waiting for her to come home I was like I'm gonna use this I'm gonna make my life fucking awesome like she has because she would always tell me she like I had a really bad childhood and all this shit and I was like dude so you and you and 50 million other people on this earth and so I think looking at it I was just like I will

not be a victim of the circumstance, I will instead allow this to be a reason why I succeed. And this will propel me to my success. And I remember thinking that. And I was like, and I'm going to help other people do the same and see that circumstances should not dictate how your life terms out. And it was in that moment that I was like, I want to invest in myself. And I started looking at Tony Robbins and Numerow and all that stuff, you know, when I found them years later, but it was often a lot of not wanting to be like her. And seeing and then noticing the pattern in like so many women that they didn't take care of themselves, they couldn't take care of themselves. They always relied on men. I think I almost like to an extent, like had a distaste for people like that,

which I don't need more, which I'm glad about. But I really deeply never wanted to rely on someone else, and I never wanted to be a victim of circumstance. And I think it was just watching her just do that over and over again and seeing what it turned into her life. And I just, I felt very sad for her. And that was what put me in that direction. I no longer feel that that's what's propelling me, because I feel like it's like I am obviously not that. What purpose is. repels me now as more of a desire to honestly just meet my future self and see what's possible. Like I think that we're all made of the same stuff, right? And so it's like I can literally do, I truly believe, I'm like, I could do anything that anyone else's worth is done.

And I think that's really freaking cool. And so now it's more of a desire to see what that looks like and to meet the person I have to become in 20 or 30 years when I put myself in situations where there's more pressure to become that kind of person. So I like putting myself in a business and setting very high goals because there's external circumstance that is forcing internal change. In order to make the successful, make the external successful, the business, I have to become a different person. And I like that because I think that's constant challenge. And so I think it shifted over time. I think when I was probably around like 19 or 20, I went from not wanting to be like her or be like anyone like that to wanting something more. Probably because I think I went through a lot of like dealing with it around that age because I was very,

angry for a long time. Like I was just angry about the situation. And I changed my mindset around it. And I was like, I am so, and I really like, I am deeply thankful for this situation. I am deeply thankful that happened because I think I would have been so soft to have that not happen. Like my parents were very protective of me as a kid. And until they got divorced and I was in that situation with her, I think that they probably would have continued to be very protective of me. And I don't know if I would have learned how to lead myself, learn how to manage myself, learned how to manage my emotions, had I not been exposed to it young? And I think getting exposed to it young was a huge advantage for me because a lot of people are like, how old are you and

like, how have you to you? I'm like, I think I started being able to parent myself and manage myself at a very young age. And so it's helped me now. That's interesting. So basically it was a slow decline. And then you apparently had to hit this rock bottom moment in order to flip that light switch and change, I I don't know, the way that you felt about success in your own life. Yeah, I think I just realized that, you know, I forgave her for everything that went through. I mean, I just look at it from a very unbiased point of view. I'm like, she's just a human. And like so many people on this earth have so many issues.

And they don't know how to deal with them. And she was not equipped with those tools. And she didn't have access to some of the things I have access to now. So she never dealt with that stuff. And she's just, I don't know, chosen to never do anything about it now. So I don't know. I think it was just like dealing with that and being like, I'm okay with that. And I'm actually like really glad because I realized probably around that age.

I was like all of what I got to see showed me so much about what I did want because I knew what I didn't want. I was like, I definitely don't want that. And so I was like, what I do want looks more like this. And then over time, it became a lot less of I don't want that and more just this is what I do want. I've seen that a lot where people, they grow up in an environment and like they see their parents' life and they do not want that for myself. And that's a really powerful motivator. Yeah. Is to not be like someone.

also in the same way of like being like someone or being better than someone, not being like someone's also extremely powerful. Yeah, absolutely. Do you want kids? Not right now. Okay. No. I think that a lot of women want children when they don't feel fulfilled by other areas of their life. And typically that's like in your young 20s.

You're not fulfilled yet. You haven't figured out what you wanted. And typically, you know, men are more apt to like have pursued their career earlier. I started pursuing my career fairly early. And so the opportunity for me to really feel a gap where a children would fill it, it just, like, never occurred. And so I think I would love if I had a kid with Alex. Like, I think the one thing is like, oh, I would love to have a kid with him specifically, right? Like, I also have like a little shared thing.

It's like, well, it's half a few and half of people. It's so cute, right? Like, very cute. I don't think I would enjoy the day to day as much as I enjoy the day to day of what I do now without kids. So one thing Alex mentioned about having a kid is that he says it could be a selfish. thing to have a kid. Because a lot of people are selfish insofar as like they want to see their kid. They want to see that kid is me.

That kid is a representation of me. And I like me. So I love my kid. What do you think about that? I agree with him. Really? Mm-hmm. What do you think?

Explain it? It's selfish. He says like, yeah. It's usually motivated by being selfish. Because like people, he says people can oftentimes be inherently selfish, like some people, a lot of people. And that's like the motivation of having a kid. You could argue both ways.

I feel like you could say that's one of the most unselfish things because then you put your child before you or you would hope that would be the case. But then you dedicate, you know, so much of your, like you could be spending your time doing anything else, but now you're taking care of another person, like raising another person. That person becomes a priority. I think you could go either way. But it could be done initially at a selfish, selfish reasons. Maybe you're unfulfilled or maybe it's something to replace like, you know, I don't feel purpose. but now with a child, I feel purpose. Yes.

So it could go both ways, I feel. I think most people have a kid to give themselves purpose, and then they put a lot of pressure onto the child to fulfill the purpose that they've desired. And so that kid has all this pressure on them from a parent that's not warranted, and the kid never wanted that pressure, right? But it's what the parent has wanted from the kid.

And so I think a lot of times they try to project, it's almost like using it as a projection of oneself. And so I think in those situations, it doesn't make sense to have a kid. And I mean, I don't know about you, but like I would like my, I'm not yet enough of a realized person to want to have a kid and be like, I'm okay if Johnny hates me and is unsuccessful. Because here's the thing. He could hate you and be an unsuccessful person. You could have a kid and they could be a piece of shit and they could hate you and like never do anything with their lives.

And you have to be okay with that. I was in a room with Tony Robbins just like a month ago and he literally talked about this. He's like, dude, you have got to be okay with the fact that if you have a kid, he was talking to some woman. He's like that that kid might not be successful at all and might not like you. Do you still want to have a kid? That's a worst case scenario. Can you live with the worst case scenario? That is worst case scenario.

That's exactly what Alex said. Alex, well, this is what Alex said. He says he would have a hard time saying that he wants them to be their own person. He would want them to be who he wants them to be. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I mean, I'd say the same thing. I mean, yeah, I'd have a very. It would obviously hurt as a parent.

It's like you try so. hard to like raise your kid to be moral or ethical you know what I mean yeah and then all of a sudden they're like I'm not going to say anything but doing bad stuff you know yeah I'm so worried with the kids tend to rebel and if like I'm so focused on like you know hey improving yourself and making money and growing and like you know filling your passion and they're like ah that's stupid because dad does it I'm just going to go smoke weed and like that's all they do I'd be so upset I just feel like the best parenting strategy is leading by example like obviously there are sometimes where you're going to have to step in, you know, tell your kid, no, don't do that,

don't do that. But for the most part, like, I feel like people are moral and they know when they did something home for the most part. And if you're always just a good person, your kid will see that. They'll respect it. You know what I mean? Will they? Yeah, because kids will always be betrayed by their friends.

There will always be an ebb and float relationships with their peers, right? But if you can be this fatherly figure that the kid can always look up to and be like, there is no ebb and flow to my dad, he's always been good to me. He always loves me. He always supports me and all of my actions. and you just live your own life and lead by example, there's no ebb and flow to that. They're a constant.

Yeah, I don't agree. I think it just depends on the kid. I mean, I've seen the same, but then humans have this natural proclivity to rebel. And so it's like if you set the standard, even if you're not trying to coerce someone into an action, they know when you're trying to influence them. And humans naturally rebel when they think that they're under influence,

which is why so many kids rebel against their parents. There's lots of studies on this. So I think it depends on the intelligence level of the kid. Like, I could look at my parents when I was a kid and be like, my dad does this, that's good. Right. So I think some kids 100% that is, and let's be real, it's better to lead by example than not. Yes.

It's just that when they're of a certain age, when they're very like, they're very drawn to that rebellion stage, that they just do the opposite. But the thing is, it usually is like an echo chamber. For example, your kid rebels and then you get mad at your kid and the kid's like, oh, well, this is the worst thing that's going to happen. Is they're going to get mad at me? Like, that's pretty bad, but I can deal with that instead of like just, I feel like letting it kind of happen as long as it's not like outside of what you deem okay. and then obviously being upset by it, but not like shunning your kid and like pointing fingers and stuff like that.

Yeah. Well, I think most people don't understand how to use punishment and that punishment actually is not useful most of the time. Why do you think punishment's not useful? Because what is punishment actually doing?

Like, are they learning anything from it? If the goal is that they don't do this thing again, then now what you're teaching them is that you get this, this bad thing happens when you've done a bad thing. But you're not teaching them how to be better. You're not helping them realize for themselves why they could do something differently the next time.

And it's not autonomous either. It's you are an external person, you know, inflicting a punishment upon them versus like them deciding for themselves that it's not a good idea. So I feel like it just takes away a lot of autonomy. It's kind of like if an employee makes a mistake in my business, am I going to yell at them and be like, you did not do a good job? And because of this, you're getting taken away. And I'm like, no, I am also a human who makes mistakes.

I do not do that. I put Jack on timeouts so many times. Yeah. Like, Jack, no. I hated it. Part of me, though, feels like as a child within like a certain range of activities that they could be doing. It's like putting on a timeout or something negative moves them away from that pain. And so they're like, well, if I don't scream at the restaurant, I don't have to go

and sit by myself for 30 minutes with nothing to do. And so then you could learn social cues by like, I don't want to be in timeouts. I'm not going to do that long enough for you to like recognize that that's not something to do. I agree to an extent. It's just that most children then find a way to just avoid the punishment. So they'll just figure out a way to do it without you finding out as the parent. So they're not taught to not do the thing. They're taught to know now if I do the thing, I get punished, and now I have to figure out how to avoid that punishment. Maybe. Yeah, I can't say.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I have a very, very similar viewpoint. And when I grew up and I went to school, I went to two completely opposite schools. One was in a, you know, very impoverished area and one was very wealthy. And I learned that at this wealthy school, a lot of the kids have great examples for parents. They have parents that had successful careers. Half the time, you know, it's like a whole family or whatever you want to call it. And I noticed that those kids would rebel probably more than than the ones over here.

And I think that just because if you lead by example doesn't mean that your kid will want that, I think they're going to want what they want. Well, there's a difference between leading by example and enabling. Because I know that's a pretty big stereotype is like if you're a, wealthy parent, you kind of enable your kid to do these bad things because you can always get them out of trouble. And I think that is also kind of like, it's like the opposite of punishment, right? Enabling, kind of. It's like they're both the extremes on the spectrum.

Alex made a reference about the two types of relationships that in his mind, he thinks work. So one is the we are in this together relationship where two people are, you know, split partners, split responsibilities. He said, so that's what you and him are. And then the other one is the cheerleader and the quarterback with the cheerleader cheering on the quarterback. And that's not as successful of a dynamic as we are in this together. What do you think about that? Are those the two real only dynamics that you think will work? And do you agree that we are in this together is the most powerful dynamic for a successful relationship?

Yeah, I mean, actually, there's a study that's been done that basically talks about the three dynamics of relationship and who's the happiest versus who's the most successful versus who's not, right? So the most successful and the ones that make the most money are the ones that have our dynamic, where it's two people that share the power that are in the same vehicle together that are driving towards something. Right. So they have a shared career. They're in it together and they split it and it's equal power, right? They make the most money, but they're not the most content.

They're happy, but they're not the most content. The most content are actually people who they each have their own individual career, which is similar, but separate, right? But they're both leading the way in those careers. And then the last one are the people who are the most. most content, but make the least amount of money and impact, which is, one person is the dominating force and the other person is like the assistant or supporter. More content, for sure, less money and impact.

So there's a study done. Esther Perel broke it down, basically talked about those three. So I think what he was pointing out is basically just like, there's a couple things, which is like that's what we see most commonly. And this is like speaking in generalization. So like I see those tend to work best also because it's clarity of roles, right? Like it's really clear that either you're in this together or it's. It's like one person's doing it and the other one's following.

I think a lot of people, if you go outside of that, then you have to define it for yourself. So I'd say other forms of relationships could absolutely be successful. It's just that most people don't clarify it. Like most people don't clarify what our relationship is. What are the rules of this relationship game? And if we're not picking one that's off the shelf, what's it going to be? And a lot of people don't take the time to decide, like, are you a want match for me? Like, is what I want and what you want?

Are they the same thing? And are we going to write it down and make it very clear? Because I think that's where most people go wrong. And that's why it's in both those scenarios, it's so well defined that it's almost, it's hard to argue. That makes sense. Yeah. So I do think that that is probably, I agree with what he's saying. We talk about it a lot because we're like, we also recognize that like our relationship is not like most.

And it's, I think it's honestly just a unique situation in which like we met under weird circumstances. We're both kind of odd people and like have different, you know, things that we're like interested in. And we just work. And I don't think that our relationship advice should apply to everybody. at all. In fact, I think it applies to less people. It's like if you put two people in the same room, think about this, right? Like if you go on a deserted island with somebody, it's like, and you're stuck there for like a month, you most likely will love that person at the end of that month, whether you want to or not. Whether you even like them or not, you may love them because it's almost

like a feeling of comfort. And so I think that it's just reminding ourselves like feelings are always going to be fleeting. If we have a good argument and a good foundation for the marriage that's logical, then it's more likely to last in the long run. So it's also, I guess, you know, it'd be like, what is your goal? Some people don't care about being married forever or like for the rest of their lives. And like a lot of people don't. I know a lot of people are like, Layla, I don't dive with that. And so I'm also speaking in terms of like, if you want to be married for a long time, I've done a lot of research on that.

I've read a lot about it. And I feel pretty strongly that that I'm going to be right. Do you have any dating advice for Jack? Are you dating? I'm trying to be dating. Yeah. What's that mean? How are you trying?

Because I'm not really like, like, I feel like in order to qualify as dating, you probably need to be going on dates. Okay. Then you're trying to go on dates, but you're not. I wouldn't say I'm like trying super hard to go on dates, but if the opportunity is presented, you know, then I probably go on a date, yeah. That's going to be hard. You're going to be waiting a long time.

Yeah, I think realistically, I just need more urgency with it, you know. How old are you? 23. Oh, you're young. Yeah, I need to be more motivated. That was when I met Alex. That was 23. Really?

All right. I got to get on it. I got to have a mission. Like, would you do online dating? But I don't really spend much time on them, to be honest. Like I said, there's an ebb and flow to my motivation with dating. Sometimes I really want a girlfriend. Sometimes I don't.

I figure if there is an ebb and flow like that probably means it's not the right time. I think that's normal, actually. Okay. Maybe it is perfect. Maybe it's the perfect time. I mean, there's totally times when you're going to be in a relationship and you're going to be totally fine being single. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean Alex actually talk about that. We're like, yeah, if you died, I don't know if I'd get remarried. You probably would, right? No. you wouldn't dude that's like I feel like I'm like the worst like I would have a lot of money and like run this big business and like have had a husband that I like ran it with who then you know died it's like who's my candidate pool like younger guys like I feel like a lot of men don't like the fact that I want all these things for myself and I have these ambitions or I find someone who's like a complete beta and they're like yeah sure I'll like fly on your private jet and take all your money and do all that which I wouldn't marry that person because I would definitely not want them to take on my money. money. So it's like what purpose is marriage shirt? It's like, I don't know if it would serve a purpose at that point. You could always have a life partner, someone that you're with,

you know, without, without marriage. I don't know if I would get married legally for that person. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because at that point, I just feel like, and then I don't know. I mean, Alex is always like, you're fucked to find out. What? It wasn't built together. If you get a new person, right? Yeah, it wasn't built together. And I, and then at a certain point, you're like, because I think the reason that people get married get married changes, right? It's like a lot of people get married. to have kids together and start a family. There's always like a purpose behind it, right? And I think some people get married, you know, we got married because we wanted to build

this life together, right? And so it's like if I have built the life that I've wanted and say I don't have kids and don't want kids and then I'm 45 and, you know, Alex is no longer there, why would I get married? And it would probably be if I wanted to start some kind of new life or new something with somebody. But if I'm content in my own, then I don't know why I'd get married. That makes sense. There is a possibility.

You seem very set in your ways, like about how. how you are so excited to meet your future self, right? There is a chance that one day you wake up and all of your desires from that just completely change and to something like, I want to live on a ranch in Montana. There's a chance, right? Yeah. And so what if the right guy comes along, you know, he's your plumber, he's fixing your pipes? You're assuming Alice is dead.

Assuming this pretty dismal conversation. But there's a chance, something like that could happen, right? There's a, do you think there's a chance that one day you can wake up? This is a weird. A lot of assumptions have to happen there, Jack. Alex is listening and he's like, well, like, if this happens but that happens and then over here, Jack is basically. I'll say this. I'll say this to your point, which is I think if I look at like who I was when I was even two years

old versus who I am now, I think there's always been inherent. Like, I've always been someone who's pursued challenges in that way. I don't plan on stopping. And maybe I do wake up and one day, you know, I mean, that's the thing that's like, there's plenty of days I feel like doing that. that I was like, hey, we could just retire and get a ranch and do it. Like, of course, there's days where that sounds like more incentivizing. I just never have given into that feeling.

So I would have to change a lot as a human in order to do that. I don't feel like it. I'm not going on some ayahuasca trip anytime soon, which is when I've seen a lot of people, you know, they do some weird thing like that. And then they're like, poop, other way. Yeah. What are your thoughts on, like, psychedelics, ayahuasca?

Have you tried any of that? I'm just curious, no? No, I've done a lot of drugs, like in my past. But, like, not like, the hippie drugs, like hard drugs. Okay. I don't even know how to define those. But I feel like there's a difference. Of hard drugs?

Yeah. That's like the, like the, you know, I haven't done like meth or anything. Okay. Yeah, let's be clear.

During my partying phase, like I was like, sure, I'll try something. Like, I was just super irresponsible. I didn't think about consequences. But I've not,

like, since that phase, I haven't done drugs just because what? I'm thinking, are you thinking what I'm thinking? What? The meth?

The meth? meth comment. What? We had a guy on the podcast a long time ago. Oh, come on, man. Former addict. Oh. And he talked about meth.

And Jack's question was, how do you do it? This was early on in the podcast. Jack, you don't ask that. I ask, like, my brain wants me to ask. That's like if you have an alcoholic and you're like, what was your favorite drink? Can you disagree? It was Jake. It was Jake.

It was Jake. I read the room. And he said he said he was. He was comfortable talking about whatever. He was comfortable. And I really had no idea. You know, it was an itch. I wanted to scratch it.

So I asked the question. I actually love that. Right? It's like, what do you do? Right? I don't want to say certain ways to that. I think it can be done, but what do you do? I mean, I asked, we met a guy and he was like, I have two wives.

And I was like, tell me how that works like, you know? Yeah. What if two of you? Do you just have sex in front of the other person on your bed? Like what do you do? He was super happy to tell me. And I was like, interesting. It's just satisfying that random, you know, a little curious.

I just think you could have Googled that. Like, that wasn't something for... I wanted to know how he specifically did it, man. Him. Yeah. I wanted to know, you know? Oh, my God. Did he describe it?

I don't think he did. No, because you wouldn't let him. I didn't think it was appropriate for the podcast. Describe how this guy... You know, that's a good point. Yeah, because you don't want to like... Yeah. Yeah.

We don't want to teach people how to... No. Do you guys do psychedelics? No. I've never done anything. I'll incriminate myself here. I've tried weed like three times in my entire life and that was it. And I hated it every single time.

The first time I was 16 and I was hanging out like in the band group and all of them were stoners. And so I would see them doing it. I was like, I was just curious. I'm like, what's appealing about this? I never had any desire. So I'm going to try it. And hated it instantaneously. Like I didn't like that feeling of not being in control.

I felt paranoid. I was like, I thought the police were going to show up and just like arrest all of us. I hated it. But then they're like, no, you got to do it again because like the first time is never good. Like the second time, try it going to say it was hated it just as much. And I think there was a third time years later where I was like, yeah, maybe I hated it. There's not one point I ever enjoyed it. So now that was my only ever experience.

Okay. Yeah, I'm not really like a proponent. I think most people are like, oh, it opens up my brain. It makes me smarter. And I'm like, it literally turns off part of your brain. I don't really think that makes you smarter. But like, I don't think, like, if you really study what they do, they turn off different parts of the brains.

And then people like, I can make better decisions. I'm like, can you, though? Yeah. I agree with the argument is that with certain parts of your brain shut off, you can kind of isolate your focus to other parts of your brain and it kind of simplifies things. Yeah. Do I necessarily agree that, like, it's a good strategy to find clarity?

No, but can it be used as a tool to find clarity? probably. Yeah, I've always been curious about like being able to tap into different senses of like creativity or different thoughts that you would never have otherwise. But then it's like, I would never want to like alter myself in such a way where you would rely on that or maybe like that's the only way you could tap into that. And I've been so terrified of doing anything because I'm like if I like it, it would be hard for me not to justify continuing. So it's probably best. I just don't. I mean, I think that's a really sound strategy. That's basically how I operate, which is like I would probably like it

and so I do not want to try it. Like I tried things in my past and I liked them and I was like I do not want to try it like you try like even like stuff like Adderall. I'm like oh my God I really like Adderall. Not doing that again. You know, like it's just don't want to even risk it. Yeah.

I think for me I limit it just to coffee. Coffee is the perfect balance. It is addictive. It is incredibly addictive. And you kind of rely on it. Yeah, I couldn't go a day without a couple of coffee. How much do you drink? Usually two cups of coffee.

It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not conservative, man. It's not. How many cups of coffee do you see around the house that are half finished? Is that coffee? I see way too many to be two cups a day, man. Because I don't pick up the glasses.

That could be glass from like days ago. That's a different problem, man. What, leaving glass? Sometimes I'll just, I'll have a coffee like this. We pick three glasses from the podcast. I want to leave it and then it gets watered down. Two cups of coffee. I feel like that's right.

So now that you... It's not three. I know 100% is not three. Now that you rely on coffee, right? How bad is it that you drink it every day? If you could find something else that was as inconvenient to drink as coffee, but it had the amount of upside that coffee does. It was just another random thing.

Let's just say, terrible example, smoking a cigarette, okay? But there wasn't really like the health detriment of smoking it. Would you step outside and smoke a couple cigarettes per day? If you got the same amount of benefit of coffee. No, probably not. No. For me, the coffee is like, I really enjoy the taste. I like sipping on something.

I like a cold drink. And they never drink warm coffee. It's about having a cold drink over ice. But what if you enjoy the taste of menthol? What if I enjoyed anything else? I mean, what does it have to do with menthol? Do you guys think coffee's bad? I don't think coffee's bad.

I think that the logic you're using is a touch flawed, you know? Two cups a day, Jack. We get at Macy in here. She'll tell me. Okay, that's the point here. But, you know, the coffee consumption, you rely on it every single day. I do rely on it. Right.

And if you weren't to have, If you wouldn't have it, right? Wouldn't you feel poorly? Correct. Yeah, but if you're just the thing, I've gone off coffee multiple times, you feel like shit for like a few days and then you're fine. Yeah, I know. It's better when you have it.

Yeah, yeah. The last time, I think it was like 2018, it was like five years ago, that I stopped drinking coffee for like a month. And I found myself I was less happy. I was not motivated and I made less money. And like, immediately when that happened, I was like, let me just drink coffee. Happy and motive part's not, you know, it's no big deal, but the money part.

The money, yeah, but no, I just, I lost that sense of enjoyment. It was weird. Like, the first two weeks sucked. And that was like, I was just going to bed early and just, you know, tired, groggy in the morning. But after, like, three weeks, it kind of wore off. I kind of made my mood and my energy was about the same. But I just lacked that, like, something look forward to. And for me, it was just like, I looked forward to just having that cup of coffee.

I don't know what it is. Why did you take a month off? I wanted to see if I could do it. And I read something online or I watched a YouTube video about being addicted to caffeine. And maybe it was like ASAP science or something of your body on caffeine. They mentioned that there's like 20 days or something like that your body gets rid of it. And like because you built up such a tolerance to it, I just figured it's probably a healthy thing to do. I mean, people that they've done studies on this like one cup of coffee a day, those people live longer and are happier on average.

Yeah. But they say that about cause or correlation. I don't know. But, like, I think it's dosage. Like, most things, like, did you know, if you smoke a cigarette three times a week, doesn't really do shit. Like, people don't talk about that. They're not like, you can only smoke three a week and stuff. They're like, smoking is so bad for you.

But, like, if you smoked three a week, most likely would never have anything else. Yeah. But don't you think if you smoked three a week that it would be very easy to, for that person to want for then? Yeah, correct. But if you have self-control or discipline, if you're somebody that can actually do that, which I know people who are like, they'll smoke a cigarette once a week or every two weeks or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, they know all these things. They're like, that's not bad, but it's the habit that gets people into it so you can't stop.

It's like anything in life, right? If we have too much of it, it's probably not going to be good. I watched a good video from Yes Theory where they visited the country that lives the longest. And for them, it was wine. And they would be drinking a lot of wine. It was like two to three glasses a day of wine. But it seemed to be more of the lifestyle that it's a lot of socializing and a lot of just like a community aspect than a small town. and they're all like drinking wine together.

And it seems like that's probably better for you than the wine itself. I would think so, the communal aspect of that. I mean, like America doesn't have much of that at all. No. Oh, and their work schedule, I think was like three days or four days. Like they had a much different schedule. I forget where this was. It was a really good video.

That's interesting. Yeah, there was another channel that got recommended. What is it? Skylife, where she interviewed some of the oldest living people and tried to figure out their secrets. And a lot of it was having purpose, work. But for them, it was their church. And, like, staying alive long enough to, you know, spread the gospel and network with other people. Not network.

It's a network. But had that supportive community where they're all, like, aligned together. And, oh, you know what it was? It was part of their religion was very much about, like, no caffeine, no drinking, no smoking, all natural foods. and I think that really fed into it. Who knows? That's the thing. Yeah.

Is there anything you wanted to bring up or talk about here? I was going to ask you guys what your goals are right now. That was my next question. Just like, what's the goal in terms of like with iced coffee hour versus the, you know, the main channel? Like, what are you guys focused on right now? Main channel for me is always like the top of the totem pole. It's about to say pyramid. Top of the pyramid.

I can't, you can't say pyramid anymore without making it sound like a scam. I've basically just gotten to a point where I really feel like I should be diversifying and trying different things and not just having, you know, the main channel, which has basically been my core for such a long time. And I know that I cannot sustain three videos a week indefinitely. There's got to be a point where eventually I'm going to scale down to two. Maybe there's going to be one. Or maybe it just, you know, just five years or not. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to continue making this. videos. Who knows? But I want to have other things that I could do in conjunction with that

main channel. So it started off as a second channel, which was the reaction videos. We've done the iced coffee hour, which I believe has probably the most longevity from anything. Because it's an interview style. Right. But then it's like you don't want to just be you know, on camera all the time. And I felt like creator properties would be a great way where I could continue focusing on all the other channels, which are my priority right now, while still investing in getting back to the roots of real estate. What is creator properties? So it's a syndication where we could team up with other accredited investors

and buy a property that is significantly bigger than I would be able to do on my own. And Ryan Paneda has such a tight team that's able to handle all of the day to day. And so that's where the benefit really came in the sense that, you know, I could invest my money into this and get exposure to deals that I wouldn't have done on my own. Because I just, I wouldn't have the time to find them. I wouldn't have the time to manage them. So much work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of like fixing up and remodeling, I couldn't do that.

And it would pull time away from everything else that I'm doing. So you put your money in there and then how do you find the other people to, you know, put capital in? Just our own network, whether that be just putting a link in the description. I've talked about it every now and then Ryan talked about it when he was on the podcast. I found so far that usually just placing a link in the description, I don't like to be too pitchy. And so I'm always afraid like, hey guys, you know, go and sign up and, oh, you know, it's expiring in 30 days and you got to do it now. Like, I just don't feel good about that. So usually it's just, I feel better just putting a link in the description.

I'll casually mention it. And that's it. And I feel like the people who are interested are more likely to do that anyway than like having it forced. So. What's the typical, you know, what's the minimum that someone has to put into one of those deals? It depends on the deal. It's going to be between probably $25,000 and $75,000. Oh, shit.

as love. Well, that makes sense, too, because I was thinking, like, for your channel, like, if it's, like, 500 grand or something. No. No. No. Yeah, yeah, okay. No.

Yeah, the first deal, uh, was 25. And I think going forward, it's going to be higher. Um, but a lot of the other ones that I've heard, uh, some of the biggest ones are, uh, $250 to $350,000. Yeah. And like, they won't take anyone lower than that. And that's like the standard they've set. And, uh, they get it.

Yeah. So I think for this first one, we really just wanted to test a proof of concept and we felt like, you know, 25 was an appropriate amount. Yeah. That makes sense. As long as it's to somebody that 25 is not much money, it's not hard to do that. It's not like a lot of pressure on you guys. Right. That's interesting.

So do you want to do more things like that? Is that what the goal is? I think the goal is to do that in conjunction with everything else. I mean, right now, my goal is just to continue focusing on main second podcast channels. Have you guys thought about creating your own product? I'm not a product person. I mean, I've wasted so much just energy and mental thoughts on like, oh, I should be doing this. And, you know, when Alex was here, he got me thinking like, oh, man, what am I doing?

My strength and my enjoyment comes from making videos. And so right now that should be my focus. I think anything else, I'm not that person. I love just getting down, planning out a video, scripting, filming, title thumb. Like, that's what I like doing. And that's, I think, my strength. Yeah. I think you should do that.

I guess I just like from my perspective, right? Like, like there's so many people that just want to work with somebody like you and build the business below it and like not bother you with any of it. But they could, I don't know. I get my fingers and everything. It's hard for me to. No. It's really hard for me to take a backseat approach and just let someone else handle it. It's really difficult.

If I see something, I'm like, no, it should be done this way. And I get too, you know, nitpicky with things. So I've kind of realized that limitation. Just just. Yeah. Yeah. And attaching my name to anything, I would be a perfectionist in that, knowing that if something goes bad, then I would obsess over how could I fix that?

That would be hard to scale something. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Main focus is just the ice coffee hour, for sure. And growing and having the best possible guests on, talking about the coolest possible stuff, and, I don't know, making the best content. Do you see something that Graham doesn't see in terms of, like, where there's potential for the business?

Oh, yeah. yes certainly i'm i'm like very much so like hey let's keep like trying out new things uh like hiring on more people building building building and graham is very much like what we're doing right now is working let's just continue doing it and if we continue doing that we'll continue moving up so but i like i think maybe i'm a little bit more risky you know and uh i want to try out more things that maybe are a little bit more exhausting such as potentially hiring someone and you know doing stuff like that Interesting. I think both are needed, though. That's a good balance. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like most of the time what you do is needed. And then every once in a while, we need a new idea. So it's like, how can you in a safe environment continue to test ideas? It's like low risk, low capital. And then when one does work, then you're like, I like that too. Then you can. Yeah. I think for me and the iced coffee, the biggest thing is how can we break out of our, I don't want to call it a rut. But right now are the guests that we have on is within our sphere of influence. And it's people that we know or, or,

or people that we've reached out to or get back to us or who want to come on. There's plenty of people like that, but we want to get into just musicians, actors, people that we would never ordinarily come in contact with through the YouTube space. And we're having a hard time doing that because we look at, let's say, podcasts like NELC or Impulsive. And they're getting some of these people like,

I can't believe it. Like, NELC got the president on or the former president of Trump. And like, I'm not expecting that we would get up, you know, president on. But some of the people that they're on, I'm like, oh my gosh, how did they do that? That's incredible.

And I think we need to break into that. Do you know those people, like of the podcast impulsive? Could you talk to them? No, I mean, I watch their podcast. I watch almost every single one of them. Yeah, because I feel like the fastest way is actually not to go figure out how to get the influencers or like the celebrities or the musicians or any of that stuff. It'd be to go to the people that have those podcasts and say, how do you get these people on your show?

They literally just DM them. I mean, Logan Paul has 20 million followers on Instagram. So it's like he DMs anybody they see it. That's, interesting. Right. So if you tried DMing, they should respond.

Yeah, we would send out, I mean, Jack's like, Jack's like, DM Celine Dion, DM Bruno Mars. Like Jack,

you're never going to get back to us. What we used to do is we go on these blocks, and we'd come up with a list of like 20 possible people we could bring on the podcast, then, you know, create a copy paste. Should I say copy paste? No. It wasn't quite a template,

but I would go. through and personalize every single one of them. And we would send this out to those 20 people that we created the list of. And then I did it one recently and thought it was funny because I looked up, you know, mainstream celebrities in Las Vegas. And sure, Celine Dion was on the list. And sure Bruno Mars was on the list. But if you don't shoot, you can't make it.

Yeah. The thing I think with a lot of those people is that they have large PR teams that they just can't come on and talk candidly on a podcast without a lot of review and approval ahead of time because anything they say could reflect on so many different avenues. As soon as you land one, though, then you can use that to land. Because I've actually encountered this several times where people like,

show me the best episodes you've had or the coolest people you've had on. I've had to send this out to people for trying to get someone on. So that's very common. Yeah, I know like Steve Aoki lives here and like, you know. What's going on with that, man? I've told you to text. I know. I know. I know multiple people who are like friends with him here. I'm like, I feel like he would come on. Yeah. Yeah. There was a point

where it was like, you know, COVID time and didn't feel comfortable with, you know, coming on at that point. Yeah, with everything he was doing. So, yeah, I got to reach back out. Yeah, you should reach back out. I feel like that's a great one. Especially because I don't think people know that he's like such a great business person. Yeah. And they're just like, oh, Steve, okay, the DJ.

I'm like, no, dude, he's like, savage. Oh, yeah. It's sick. Yeah. So, yeah, I think he's just breaking into that. Yeah. I was actually doing some thinking. I think it would be a smart idea.

We hire a podcast producer for three months. I really like that idea. I love it. But just three months. Yeah. And if we don't see a benefit in three months, that's the end of it. I agree. And there's 90 days.

They have 90 days. You should just totally, like, if you're ever trying to, like, hire somebody and it's like, just bring someone as a contract to say it's a project basis and we'll reevaluate it 90 days. Yeah. Part of the thing for me is that I feel like I've done everything myself. And I'm like, we could just do it. We have four people between us and Andrew. four people.

There's no reason why we can't accomplish that. Well, not everyone's you though. Yeah, but I feel like everyone has the time. No, this is the fallacy that most founders like you have when you're like a very capable person is you think that it takes everyone else the same time it takes you.

And that's the reason a lot of businesses can't grow. People like, well, I'm not going to hire someone because like Sally can do that for two. They don't have the attention. Yeah. Most people don't have the attention to do what you do and have that much dedicated. Like most people have so many other things going on their lives.

I mean, to get myself out of the business, it's probably like five to six roles that need to get hired that are high level people that are paid like you know between 200 and 500 grand a year each to get Alex out the business is usually like you know eight to 10 people to get them out to build a whole marketing department basically so it's like it just never you're never going to find like one person who's going to be able to do it as well as you in most if it's something you're good at okay if it's not you're bad at you'll for sure find people that are better than you at it because you don't think that we're particularly good at reaching out to guess because that's something that lies in your court

of like the responsibilities of this podcast. And I would say honestly, that's one of the things that we need the most amount of. You'd be the one. I would get someone. I would pay them a commission based on the guests that they're going to get. So you basically have like an A list, B, list, C list, guest. And they get paid a commission based on the kind of guests that they bring on to the show.

That's exactly. I literally said that exact thing to you. Did you? You mentioned the commission. You never said A, B, and C on. Yes, I literally said they bring on this tier. We pay them X amount. They bring on this tier.

We pay them X amount. I don't remember that. I don't remember that. I just like if you have a full time doing that, that's going to get you out of the rut. I'm 100% agree. I think that is the main reason we need a producer is for guest outreach. I don't even think it's for the production of the podcast. I think that's all going fine.

Maybe it's not a producer. What would you call it? Because a producer is the person that you attract. It would help if they greased up the machine that is the podcast. That's not going to make the biggest difference. And so if you put out video producer, 99.9% of those people can't do that thing. So would be like an Asian or something? I would have to Google it for sure.

Yeah. To me, it sounds like you have like you build up some sort of network of a couple of people that just kind of have contacts and once one of them find somebody that would be suitable for us then they get paid you know like the fee yeah it's beneficial for them and for us is this just the commission thing that so we just put feelers out and we say maybe with five people we'll pay you based on the guests you bring in you could do five people or if you pay one person ideally that person has a network of people who do what they do and then they'll just pay those people if they really need something.

And then they cover it with their commission. Is it worth it to hire somebody who maybe is just resourceful? Like one person who does everything, but maybe they could, you know, find people and network. I will say this, which is I work with a company that does something similar and the guy is very resourceful, but it takes time to build a network. And so what you don't have is that you have the time that he's undergoing to build that network that you have to pay for. But if you can find somebody who's already built that network, then you don't have to

pay for that time, you just pay for their experience. Yeah. And I mean, I think I don't like waiting. So I'm like, I would rather find somebody who has already done it and already has a network because building one takes time. That's just me, though. I like that. What do you think on that, yeah.

I do. Because I think we are under the mindset that we have to hire someone full time for three months. No. Okay. You can hire. I mean, you can literally do whatever you want. You just have to be clear and set the expectations of that person. So like, I would just be clear when I'm putting a wreck out there.

I'd be like, I'm hiring someone to get this product. You have three months. And if you're able to hit this goal. which is maybe like two A-list guests or something like that, would you want to bring them on full-time? Like, what would they have to do in those first three months for you to say, now I would want to bring you on full-time? And then you tell them that's what it is, and it's very clear.

And if they agree to it and you agree to it, then like, it's great. Works on both sides. Yeah. I agree. Let's do that. Okay. I like that. Cool.

Yeah. You got to get this out by tomorrow. I know, yeah. Keep going, yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate this has actually been really helpful for us, too. Oh, good. Yeah.

I appreciate you guys having me. Cool. Well, thank you. I'll link to all of your info down below in the description, where you can also get a free stock. And you can follow me on Instagram. All the way up $2,000 and you send it from public. Check out Alex. Just use the good gram. Thank you, our sponsors. Did you just say for some reason? For some reason. And with that said, you guys, until next time.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.