The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The Bodybuilder Making $200,000 Per Month | Jay Cutler

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

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Jay Cutler is larger than life. In business, he's pulling in millions of dollars a year. His dedication is unparalleled. And growing up, he was a major inspiration for me to get into fitness. This is going to be an incredible episode. Make sure to subscribe because we have episodes coming out like this every single week here on the ice coffee hour. This all happened because of a very funny situation where Graham came out to me. He's like, dude, you'll never guess what happened, man.

I was out at the casino and I met Jay Cutler. And I was like, yeah, do you remember this? I don't remember. This was at Resorts World. Really? It was the opening. restaurant there. And I was going through the casino and I saw you there in line. And I was so nervous. I wanted to go up and get a picture. And I was like, should I do? I don't want to bother him. This is kind of weird. But I gathered up the courage and went up. You were so nice. We took a picture together. I posted on Instagram and was like, whoa, you met Jake Huttler. And so then I thought, well, how cool would it be to get you on the podcast? And I sent you a DM. And I'm sure they get flooded. And it must have been six months later. I think you responded back. When I was 17 or 18, I started going to the gym consistently. And you were one of the people. because I was 18, 2008.

And so this was like right when you were winning, like back to back to back championships. And so when it came to bodybuilding and, you know, certainly like I'm nowhere close to where you are. But I think a lot of people look to that, be like, wow, even if I could achieve 10% of that, like, that's the goal. So tell us about your story, how you came up, how you got into bodybuilding in the first place. Man, it's, you know, it's pretty lengthy. I mean, I can honestly tell you guys that like from the very beginning. I mean, I have pictures when I was flexing when I was four years old, six years old, eight years old. I was the youngest of seven kids, and I was always inspired by like cartoon characters or heroes, right?

So it was like Superman, Batman, and, you know, Captain America, those kind of things. I was always intrigued by the muscle. I would probably say the first influence, I was 12, and my sister's boyfriend had a bodybuilding book, and it featured the 82 Olympia. Chris Dickerson won that. And I remember seeing this physique and I was like, man, this is unbelievable. It was kind of like a ripped up magazine and I, you know, since I had already had recognition from people around me, especially my older brothers and sisters, you know, I was the youngest of seven.

So I had a good physique and I was an active kid. I started, I guess, kind of following it and I'd go to my local GNC and I'd flip through the books like the magazines because that was the only real place that had fitness books was GNC. There was no such thing as vitamin shops or other like mom and pop supplement stores. So I would go in and I would reach the magazine rack and I watched that all through high school. I was a football player. Had an interest in bodybuilding. One of my friends when I was 15 took me to Gold's gym and we worked out.

He was super into bodybuilding. And I think that I kind of was like, wow, it's amazing what you can do getting under these weights. And I made a commitment that when I graduated high school, I graduated 91, I was going to join the gym. and start my journey towards lifting weights and developing a better body. But what I realized is when I started, I was attending college that fall, September. I was pursuing a degree in criminal justice. I had a family business that I worked in doing concrete. So I already had in high school a developed body.

But really, once I found those weights and I found that time in the gym, I was training from 8 to 10 at night. The gym closed at 10 o'clock. I was just lost in the weights. It was the best stress reliever. I was at that turning point. 18, like we reached that point. And it's like the family's trying to drag you to the business.

Like that was a family business. And then it was like, okay, do I want to pursue a degree in criminal justice? I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. And I think a lot of young kids just go to college and they're not sure is this going to be my lifelong career. And when I found lifting weights, not to say that I was like, this is what I'm going to do the rest of my life, but I knew it was a hobby for sure that I would, you know, participate in.

And that started the whole. kind of journey and progression obviously kept me in the gym on 50 pounds my first year training and somehow good on our bodybuilding stage and what about your siblings were they naturally fit to like if they went to the gym they train like you would they have the results that you did or do you think maybe that you were just genetically a little bit more inclined to put on muscle i was a little stockier i have an older brother that's a little stocky like that also but my other brothers are pretty slender uh and like i said they own a concrete business so they were all super active.

But no one ever lifted weights. So it's hard to say, would this benefit them like it benefited me? Really hard for me to imagine, you know, trying to, I didn't have a guide. Like, you know, normally like the older brother or the father, like today I see now, you know, someone gets someone into this and shows them a direction where I kind of had have found on my own. I think maybe there could have been genetics. It's hard to really say, but genes do play a part in when you can go to a certain

level like I did like Olympia level to win like you have to have something special like it's structure it's you know body composition how you handle foods and it's a lot of mindset what percent do you think you'd allocate towards hard work versus just pure genetics I think you know we've seen some great bodies that never really came to fruition of like being their absolute best uh because the mindset wasn't there but I would say you know listen hard work like a lot of it is hard work a lot of it genetics you still have to have right genetics like anyone can make progress but to go to the elite level when you start talking okay to be mr limpia like you have to have a good sway of genetics also what do you think drew you to the gyms in the beginning in terms of like lifting weights

was it uh was it the physique was it like hey get attention from girls was it uh the feeling You know, I mentioned that I said, wow, if I actually put my body to work, like I would get more reaction from people. But I think more, it wasn't like I get sand kicked in my face or anything like that. Like you hear these, or I was smaller than everyone else or I was picked on. And I was rather popular in high school. And for me, I strive on challenges in life. Like if something's not competitive or challenging, I'm not, I'm kind of bored with it, to be honest. So at what age do you think you cross that line? of being like, okay, he's got like a decent physique to like, holy cow, like this is actually

something he can compete with. Looking back now, it was the combination of doing concrete from 11 to 18, where I was just working nonstop after school, school vacations. It really tore my body down. So when I actually started going to college and I would be in class and I'd have more time to rest and then I started eating the food because I didn't have any kind of nutrition program at all when I was in high school, it really. Really, it just my body exploded.

And that's really how I, I would say that I made such fast progression. Because my body was just beat down, tired, not, not any, no nutrition value whatsoever. So back to the timeline, you were 18 when you started taking it seriously. You said you also went to college. Did you graduate college? I did, yeah. And what did you study in college again? Criminal justice.

Criminal justice, right? And then did you go into work right after college or did you go full into bodybuilding? The funny thing is, is, you know, I graduated college in 93. And I went to the, I went to the teen nationals around the time I was graduate. I actually skipped my graduation to go compete in the nationals. Yes. Wow. That's the best teenager in the country.

And I won that in the heavyweights. And from that forward, I was like, okay, that I have something. You know, I was looking at magazines and looking at California. I wasn't making a ton of money. And so when I graduated, I was able to, you know, just work and just support my career a little bit. I didn't take a job right away. And I was trying to decide because I graduated my associate's degree. And did I want to go and finish my bachelor's?

And I was kind of working. I was doing heating air conditioning at the time. And shortly after, I mean, I got my first sponsorship offer, like $50,000 contract. And at the time, it doesn't sound like a lot, but this is 90. 95. I landed my first muscle and fitness cover and I started getting fan mail from all over the world. I had a PO box and I'd handwrite letters to people and, you know, I started a mail order and it's kind of comical, but I would sell one picture of myself and one t-shirt. And people would send me money orders and checks. And I started kind of my business at that point. Every week I was getting residual money from basically a nobody.

You know, I was a guy that maybe had a couple pictures in a magazine. And that's kind of how I started my entrepreneurship. How much would you charge for a picture, shirt? I would charge $10 for the picture and the shirt was $20. I mean, between the contract and that, I mean, probably, I would probably make almost $100 grand. I was doing, I started doing some guest appearances for $500, like guest posing. And that's how it all kind of started was just basically nail order.

And, I mean, it's pretty laughable even when I was in Vegas, you know, fast forward. I mean, I was selling T-shirts out of my garage when no one was doing T-shirts and making a million bucks a year just on T-shirt sales, you know? It's out of my garage. Now back then, what was your overhead? Were you saving a lot of it? Were you... I was renting an apartment.

My apartment was $500. I drove kind of a crappy car. I bought my first car I bought was a BMW, 7 series. I think the payment was $600 a month at the time was huge to me. I'd buy a whole cow at a time. I had like two freezers in my house. At the time, I was eating probably four meat, four pounds of meat a day. And a lot of it was red meat, but I'd buy 150 pounds of chicken at the time.

I'd buy 30 dozen. eggs so I'd buy a whole case of eggs and that would be my whole refrigerator and that's how dedicated I was and I'd sit outside and I cooking all my chicken breasts and my steak and stuff like that on the barbecue grill and I put it on plates and I put it in my refrigerator and I'd pick as the days went on pair you know people eat their meal prep usually on Sundays or whatever I would pick enough for each couple days and that's how I kind of ate the pasta and rice and whatever around it ate every two hours and you talk about progression you said how did I do it I mean, that's where I was spending most of the money.

How much do you think you're spending on food? Back then, I was probably spending maybe $50,000 a year on food. Wow. Gosh. Yeah, 50,000. Back then, too. That was 95. Yeah, because, you know, I would eat out sometimes too, but I would travel.

Sure. So you said you were buying a whole cow at a time. Yes. How much did a cow cost? And how long did it take for you to go through an entire cow? You know, it was probably a few hundred dollars for what I paid back then. That's it? Yeah.

I think it would be. More. Yeah, I would have thought it would be like two grand. No, because remember, this is like, this is, I was, the guy was in Spencer, Massachusetts. So people that know Massachusetts. I mean, I grew up in Sterling. So, you know, it was, it was, I mean, I think 30 dozen. I just went to a grocery store the other day.

I called my mom. I said, mom, eggs are $5 a dozen. She's, I said, I remember when they were 99 cents. And I mean, I've probably been in a time warp, but I don't really pay attention. as much. But when I was buying 30 dozen eggs, I mean,

I remember I was getting them for free sometimes because I would publicize the farm stand I was buying them from. And when you're eating four or five pounds of meat a day, it's a lot. How do you eat every other hour?

Do you just have a timer? I would have a clock and I would honestly just, I always have this, there's this quote on the internet and it's like, I eat for function, not for taste.

When's the last time you had McDonald's? Well, I mean, I still, listen, don't get me wrong. I still, I spent a long time

since I had McDonald's. So in and out burger. We actually had an out burger yesterday because we did it for YouTube. Oh, it's for YouTube. But did you enjoy it? Or was it like, I got to eat this in and out? I didn't feel,

I didn't, I didn't feel so good the rest of the day to be honest. But I have a specific order that I do. And I want to show like my following that, hey, I am normal because I know they think that they probably think that I just don't do anything outside the norm. You know what I mean?

Do you have ever any cravings for, let's just say, sweets, chocolate. I do. I mean, I'm a carrot cake. I mean,

cheesecake factory. I was one of my go-toes when I was finished with a contest over all the years. And carrot cake is one of my, my vices. But, you know,

I'm not afraid to have something if I really, but I don't, like, where a lot of athletes, they schedule cheat days, I don't necessarily have them. I feel like I still eat quite an abundance of food.

Even though I scale back, I could probably eat half as much as I used to. The diet, you ask some you, percentages. like 80% of what we do is the nutrition. Wow. It's saying abs are made in the kitchen.

Yeah, which we actually, I did a video yesterday. I said abs aren't made in the kitchen. They're actually made in the gym. But you still have to be visible. They're made in the kitchen, right? You're still working out and very structured and very intense about this whole, you know, bodybuilding thing. Is there ever a time in your life, do you think that you're going to ease up and be like,

you know what? I'm not going to worry about the food that I'm going to eat. I don't feel like I have to push. myself in this gym so much or is it just something that you thoroughly enjoy and you'll think you'll enjoy for the rest of the life i'm still i'm still on a fast track of appearances and in the public eye social media has become kind of i consider myself kind of laughable not kind of an influencer now i would agree i'm not competitive right so i think expectations you never want to see your hero or someone that inspires you off track and just normalized does that make sense i believe

social media like we only see the positive things on social media from certain people and know that it's come out that other you know sometimes people aren't what they are on social media what i try to do is be as real as i possibly can and i actually probably train now more than i did then meaning i train seven days a week where or i train five days total i got up this morning i did my fasted cardio this morning i ate a solid breakfast and uh you know i may not eat every two hours or three hours like i used to but i still try to at least four meals a day but it's all mostly clean eating and don't get me wrong i'll still eat out but you know if you throw something in front of me uh for dessert or something like that i probably will pass on that sure do you find that you notice

a difference if you eat fast food or something that's unhealthy how much do you feel it afterwards or the next day and in and out i mean i went and trained last night and i felt a little heavy and i felt like the sodium really got to me and i got everything without salt by the way yesterday and i just it something off track i definitely feel a difference in your body but sometimes you're body needs it. I mean, it depends how strict you are. I mean, don't be afraid to eat something that you crave once in a while. You need it for your mind, too, right? A lot of this, like I talked about, is mental. So if your mind is telling you, hey, I need something that's off diet a little bit or something that will help my mind. Can you walk us through your diet for today? What exactly

you ate for breakfast and what you're going to eat for the rest of the day? So breakfast was two whole eggs. I had Enzekiel bread, which is like a flowerless bread. I had a bowl. I had a bowl. oatmeal with a banana, a cup of coffee, that cottage cheese, and I had some bacon. That's still, I mean, that's a lot of food still. Yeah, I'd be full for hours. Yeah, I would be a much of the day. Yeah, so, so the breakfast is still 80, 80 protein and probably 200 grams of carbohydrates. And then I'll have, I'm not kidding, like chicken and rice the rest of the day.

Like chicken and rice, chicken and right. The same thing. People laugh about my monotonous eating style. It's just what I know. And I mean, once in a while, I eat red meat. I try to eat less now over the weekend. We ate at a restaurant. I did have some red meat.

But with my age and everything, I try to stay more leaner, less restaurant and that kind of thing. But first, we want to think today's sponsor, Rohn. So Rohn sent us their commuter shirt, and I got to say, I am wildly impressed. It's not only the comfiest shirt I've ever had, but I would say it's also one of the most stylish shirts I've had. Feels like you're almost wearing a blanket, like a silk blanket. It's hard to describe, actually, but it's extremely comfortable. Another really cool thing about Rhone is that they have wrinkle release technology, so as you wear and stretch out the shirt, it just gets rid of the wrinkles naturally. Yeah, it's perfect for Jack because he doesn't know how to use an iron. Plus, with your gold fusion anti-odor technology, you'll smell fresh and clean all day long, regardless of how sweaty you are. And that's perfect for Graham, because he always smells terrible. And on top of all of that, they're 100% machine washable, so no more long and expensive

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That's R-H-O-N-E dot com slash iced coffee and use code ice coffee at checkout. And you get 20% off your whole order. Thank you so much, Roan, for sponsoring this episode. Back to the podcast. And I made the transition to California when I was 25. So finally, after years of, I mentioned, Joe signed me to a contract when I was 21, gave me a raise like $10,000 every year and basically offered me $100,000 to California. At the time, I was making like $60,000.

So he gave me a $40,000 bomb to move California to offset the expenses. And that was kind of a shock to me. And I had a really good setup in Massachusetts. I had built a home gym at that point. I had like a 2,000 square foot gym, so I didn't train any public gyms. And I was traveling in the weekends, you know, I was doing the mail order stuff. And at that point, like, I didn't have a lot of competition because I'll be honest, a lot of the bodyblowers weren't motivated to make more money.

They just got a paycheck. I mean, think about it. You could sit on your couch and work out and get paid a check every month. You came every 30 days. But for me, I wanted to build something different. I thought this was a short-term career. I literally thought, I'm going to body bill for five years. And I'm going to quit because I don't know how successful I'll be at that.

So when I moved to California and I won my first pro show in 2000, I got $15,000. And I remember I was renting an apartment at the time. I was paying $1,500 from my apartment at Liseo, California. You know, I had one car that was married at the time. My wife and I, we shared that. And she was a nurse. You know, she was a nurse and she got a job at Hoke Hospital at the time. And so we had dual incomes.

Now I was making probably 150 a year. But when I won that night of champion, I got my 15K, I was able to go buy my first home in California. I bought a condo. I paid $2.20 for it. And that was kind of the start. And then I went on the tour. That fall, I went to the Olympia. I finished eighth.

And I went on a European tour, so I'd have collected money. And then the next year, I got second at the Olympia. And I was winning 60 grand. So now it was starting to really roll. Guest appearances were starting to fly. And I made my first million dollars when I was 29 years old. I was a balancing a relationship at the same time as keeping up. up the schedule because I'd imagine your schedule is like it's got to be going.

It's always a strain on the relationship because it's a very selfish game. Like you're eating, sleeping, training. You're very secluded from social gatherings and whatnot. What was that like coming in second? Who won first place? Ronnie Coleman, yeah. How close were you with him at the time? We were pretty close.

I mean, he was an idol of mine. I really wanted to stand next to him, but I was never even compared. And so when I was able to play second in 2001 next to, to him. It was in Vegas. So when it started to migrate to Vegas, obviously, I moved to California 99 also. So I was kind of a driving distance. So I kind of settled myself in Las Vegas and a week prior. And I got acclimated a lot easier than the other guys and landed that first second place. And man, it was like I had made it. Like that's the first realization that I could actually beat the best body blur in the world. It took a lot longer than I expected. I didn't win until

Can you say how much you make winning a Mr. Olympia? Well, at my peak, I won 200. Today it's around 400. Okay, so, you know, I won 155 the first year. I think I went up to 200 max. But 155 was my first prize. And it doesn't seem like a lot, right? Be the best in the world of something.

But the endorsements that come along, it's just endless. How do those look? How do you pick and choose which companies you want to work with? Do you have someone negotiating these in your, half of it. I did come to you. I didn't. I was always my own agent. You know, a lot of the times for my career, like I used products or I sat looked at what could be potentially something that I could utilize in my career. And you know, whether it's workout gloves, belts, supplements, clothing. I mean, I had hair products. I had skin products. I had tanning lotions. I had everything. It just falls on your

lap. I mean, when you're the best in the world or you're the most publicized guy. And back then, I mean, still talking about magazines. Yeah. I was on every page of every magazine, and, you know, I had the biggest supplement sponsor company out there, Muscle Tech, and that was, I had an eight-year contract with them. Now, how do you stay on top? Because imagine 2006, there's a lot of pressure. You're going to do this again, winning again, and keeping that momentum.

How did you do that? Your fear of losing. And that's how I pretty much could kind of dictate how I trained every day. and push forward. I mean, I always wanted to have a better physique. But once you win, you're, they kind of tell you like, this is the ideal physique we're looking at.

So it's now duplicate that every year or, you know, try to predict what else someone else is going to look like. So it's basically showing your strong points and hiding your weaknesses, because we all had weaknesses. For me, it was a conditioning thing. Like I always, my weakness was the consistency in conditioning, meaning that shredded look without water retention.

I mean, I could always get lean enough. It's just that, you know, that last dial down of dehydration, where you have that shrink-wrapped skin, you know, on stage,

which lasts a very short period. I just didn't want to lose. I mean, I don't know how some people just strive on being competitive and their fear of losing is what keeps them driven. And I'm not afraid to say that.

You know, every year it was, you know, I had nightmares of like, oh, I'm going to lose the title. I wanted to win as many as I could. And if you follow my career, I won two and I lost one in the middle, no wait. And then I came back to win it again for two more. And no one's ever done that in history.

So I believe, I mean, if you ask me honestly, that's probably why I, you know, kept pushing myself harder. It's just once you get that feel of Mr. Olympiates, you don't want to go backwards. What happened in 2008? Can you walk us through maybe where you feel like you could have done better, you could have pushed yourself, what happened that day? Yeah, a few variables. You know, Coleman and I battled, and I won in 06. And he came back in 07.

He tried to win it back. And he finished fourth. So we carried bodybuilding to a crazy level of size and conditioning through our rain. It was basically a two-man contest. There was no, if you look back in 03, 4, and 5, 6. No one talked about anyone else winning. It was only he and I, but there were 15 other guys in the contest, which was a little unfortunate for some of the other guys, to be honest.

It was a little unfair, but at the same time, like, it was he and I that battle, and we were the biggest. When Ronnie stepped away, he didn't come back in 08. I was kind of confused on how I wanted to bring my physique in because I had gone so big. And now I was looking at these littler structured guys that were more ripped. So I needed to try to become more conditioned because my overwhelming size probably wouldn't win it for me. I needed to be sharper. And when you try to bring your body back down to a smaller weight, because my first Olympia, I won at 273.

And even in 2009, when I came back to win the tight, I was 254. So that's a big swing of weight. So I actually had to lose a little bit of muscle in order to gather conditioning. And that's where I went wrong. It was miscalculation. I was flatter than I, flatter meaning the muscles weren't as full. And Dexter Jackson took the title from me. And it was heart wrenching for me.

Yeah. It was one of the darkest places in my career that I had been. Because remember, I had been first or second forever. And I'd never thought I could be beaten. So I guess it's kind of arrogance as far and overconfident and maybe just complacent places for me. I just never thought I would lose. Yeah.

And then what did you do for? 2009. I just... How did you get the motivation to, to put yourself out there again? I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. You know, I was embarrassed that I only held two times. Remember, the guy, one prior to me, one eight in a row.

The guy prior to him won six in a row. I mean, the guy prior to him won eight in a row. Here, I won two and lost. That's embarrassing for me. So, and I'm looked upon as, like, the do-all guy of bodybuilding. You know, I was super successful. I was motivated. I was driven. I was like very robotic in my routine and everyone knew that like Jay was all business like it was no play time for him and I think for me everyone's like well how did this guy miss a beat and just lose. So embarrassment, uh, extra motivated. I mean, I was always better chasing like when I chased Coleman for those years and was second I was always, you know, solidified second. So now, you know, here I am like they were talking about me not even placing O8. Like if you watch the buildup to the contest, they mentioned that Jay won't be in the top two or three.

His body's just tired. So when I came back in 2009, I just kind of shut up all that talk and came back at arguably one of my best looks since 2001. Yeah. And then what about in 2010? Bill Heath was coming up. I mean, I won another one. But I knew, you know, after 2009 and coming back and arguably, like I said, it was history making the quad stump that that famous pose I did. It was really hard for me to justify how am I going to be better than this?

My biggest fear, even talking with, you know, the guy that was training me and my group around me, how was I going to top 2009? And the truth was, as you weren't going to, right? It was really hard to repeat that. So for me, you know, I came back. I won it. It wasn't in the fashion that I wanted to. But that was my last victory.

I mean, I came back in 11. I tore my bicep three weeks out, Phil Heath-Won. He was second to me in 2010, and he started his reign of seven times. I came back in 13, and I was a shadow of myself, you know, after getting bicep surgery in 2012, and I finished sixth. What happened to your bicep? How did that happen? I was doing a photo shoot, and basically what I did a million times, I had dumbbells on my knees, and I was kicking them up to do a shoulder press, and when I kicked them up, the bicep detached.

on the upper. And it didn't hurt. Really? I just thought, oh, it was like an electric shock. And I just kept doing the photo shoot. And I kept training the leading up and it slowly started to get black and blue and it was actually detached. And the crazy thing is, is I competed with a torn bicep. I competed there and I went to India the next week. I got second. But it was a mess. You know, the bicep was all black and blue. And you could see the lump in there, you know, because it was rolled down. You know, when the muscle rose. Is that not painful? Well, it was painful when I, I got on stage and started posing, but I didn't really, you know, remember, when you're practicing,

you're not practicing. It's like being, it's like sparring, you know, like no one's hitting you with the force that you're going to get hit with real fight, right? So it started to hurt, but I had to suck it up. And the crazy thing is, this was September of 11. And I didn't have surgery until February of 12, because I had so many committed guest posings and appearances. I couldn't be slinged up or in a cast. I end up in a sling, but I had to stay committed to that because I had already booked a million things and I had competitions and I had to compete and represent. I mean, the fans would have been disappointed at the time. So, you know, that was kind of like nail in my cough and career, my opinion.

It's crazy because just listening to this conversation, the way that you talk, you have one of the most intense focuses that I've ever seen, I think, on a. guest on the podcast ever. It's you're so driven. You have so much momentum in one, in one direction. Are you feeling the same thing? I love it.

Yeah. It's just doing one thing really well. And there's nothing else that happens. Like I told you, you know, about the mindset. And I told you like it's, you know, I balance a lot of things now, but I try to do like one main focus thing,

like at the best of my ability, right? And it's kind of funny for the shows. I would basically say, okay, I would train for four months for these contests. So Olympia preparation, it was all year, but I would cut out everything for months out, meaning don't bother me. Don't pick up the phone. I wouldn't even pick up the phone for all people. I wouldn't do anything.

I would not travel, no social anything. It was like straight tunnel vision focus for training. I was trained twice a day. You know, I was in the gym twice a day. I do cardio at home two times. So I was basically training four times a day. You said in an interview or some sort of video I watched on you this morning that to be as successful as you are in the space, there needs to be something wrong with your brain. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

To go to the gym every day and destroy yourself. And you have to go to a really dark place, especially the last few weeks, like you're low on calories and you're dizzy, you're tired. And you're pushing yourself beyond. But remember, we build up like, like you eat all this food. then all of a sudden you have to pull all the calories back to get on stage. Like it's kind of, like it doesn't make sense, right? Because you've got to build your body up and then strip it down. So you basically have three,

I have 3% body fat when I'm on stage. And you do this over four months and you're tired and you're frustrated and everything else. But, you know, you look amazing, but you feel like total crap. And for me, it's just,

I, it's had this mindset. Like, it was just super driven. I can't explain it. I mean, I think that, Not everyone can ever build that over time.

It's something you're kind of born with. It makes sense. And when you look back on those years, would you consider yourself happy? No. What would you say you were? No, I wasn't truly happy. I mean, I was happy at moments,

but it was just routine. It was just eat, sleep, train, and, you know, repeat. And I thought I was, you know, we consider and talk financial success or notoriety. and like you knew who I was or whatever else, but like I didn't sit around and say, well, I'm Jay Cutler and people know me or I make X amount of dollars.

It's like I had one goal and like I told you if I never made a dollar and I was on my quest to be Mr. Olympia, I still would have done it because it was like something that, you know, history books, I'll be recognized forever. That makes sense.

Do you find it difficult to find determination and passion after retiring? Because it feels like you've had one focus and that focuses. I carried it right over to the other things I was doing It actually was like a sigh relief when I retired because like anything, everything gets old. And at 40, I never thought I'd go that long. I told you, I thought I'd do it a few years.

I mean, I always have been stated in a magazine. I said, I'll be retired by 30. And I had all these other ventures I was doing and connections. And I kind of wish I branched out a little more because I really could have rubbed shoulders with a lot more people that might have, you know, been more successful or someone that. could really be kind of do some mentorship towards me for the future. But I feel I did well. But I just, that's how I had to operate. I had to operate like that. And it wasn't about being happy or anything else. And I think that it really, you know, it gave me a lot of opportunity to focus on my other things. You know, once I stepped out and that whole focus was gone,

now I can zone in on, you know, living my life and in doing the things that I do. Like I live nothing like that now. And how did you balance running the business and training full-time when you were at your peak? It hurt me a lot to get ready for contests. So it was like literally the day the contest was over, it was like, oh, thank God, I can get back to business. And I can get back to travel and I can focus on all my other opportunities to, you know, use the success of the bodybuilding revenue to build a bigger empire. And I have a great team. I had great people around. And I have a great people around me to always help. You know, I was never individual.

You know, anyone that tells you that's successful solely on their own is probably lying to you, you know. What were some of the businesses that you were doing back then? How many income streams did you have? I had quite a bit. I mean, a lot of the endorsements turned into other business for me. So I mentioned, you know, the supplements and the clothes and, you know, online. I had DVD sales.

I had, I have so many different. outlets and then I was doing real estate you know I moved to Vegas to buy property and you know I had rental properties I was flipping some homes but back then I mentioned it was so much easier I mean Vegas was still so early this is something that someone like yourself probably looks and says man if I could have been there in 2002 right I was buying 150,000 dollars houses and selling them for 200 in a heartbeat and back then that was a lot right I was putting 5% down so it was easy to float money back then and then I had rental properties and I mean, the rentals were under $1,000 for a three-bedroom house with a pool.

And, you know, you had good and bad tenants. That's one thing I can tell you, like, I wasn't really, it's hard when you're Jay Cutler and you're a landlord. Did they know? Of course, because I kind of handled my stuff. You managed yourself? Unfortunately, like, it was easy to rent these because I'm out and about and someone's like, I want to come to Vegas.

Well, I have this rental property. And, you know, that's how it was. How much were you making at your peak years? Can you share that? Probably two, two and a half million dollars. Okay. And what about transitioning from that to now? Were you able to invest most of that?

Or how does that look today? Yeah. I mean, I was able to basically put a lot of money away. But I still was a huge earner. And still to this day, I mean, it just doesn't stop. And, you know, I was kind of laughing with Tyler. or yesterday we were talking about because he's like, he sees me traveling every weekend to these guest appearances.

And he says, you ever just want to stop? And he knows I'll get bored. Yeah, yeah. But I said, man, if someone calls you and offers you a great, you know,

revenue to come out there and speak in an event or whatever else, why would I ever stop? Not only do I enjoy it, but it's free travel, it's connections you make. I mean, I've walked in a gym this past weekend. And if I didn't go do this guest appearance,

I mean, they had all these murals of me on, the walls and everything like that. These young kids came in. And these kids were in their teens. And like, Jay Kotler, Jay, and I couldn't believe. I still floored that these young kids follow a guy that's older than their parents. And they watch, oh, I watch you on TikTok or I watch on Snapchat or watch you on YouTube.

And I did a collab last week with, you know, a 21-year-old kid. And it's getting tons of viral things. And I actually took my shirt off and put them. And now they're talking about a Jay Kotler. comeback in the masters, which is crazy to me. I mean, I'm almost 50. This Lex little guy. Okay. Yeah, he's, uh, he's like 21 years old, but, you know, we got in the posing room at Golds Venice, you know, the, yeah, historic Becca bodybuilding. I don't know if you've been there, but, you know, I have pictures all over the walls there and, oh, somehow got me in the poison room and I

never take my shirt off. You know, these guys all look good, you know, they're 21, the fresh muscle. And, you know, for me, it's hard for me to look at, you know, know I weigh two to 35 today and I used to be 300 pounds and I told you I think that ripped full 55 275 and uh you know I didn't think I looked so good but then the pictures are floating I was like man jay you should I'm doing this whole fit for 50 so next year I turned 50 in August and I'm gonna get in the best shape I've been in 10 years not to say I'm getting back to what I looked like before but I'm I'm encouraging people like age as a number because I honestly at my age it's I used to look at these guys in their 40s and say that old guy over there now I

I jump out of bed in the morning and I'm energized to get up and do and that's the crazy part is I always listen to people say oh when you're 40 when you're 45 when you're 50 you're going to be creeping out of bed after weight training I have zero pain I have no joint pain no restrictions no health issues I mean all my blood work everything is great now how often do you test your blood work and make sure that everything is in line. At least twice a year, sometimes every three months, but at least twice a year. I get busy and I'll be honest. I mean, it's like going to the dentist, right?

I try to go every three months or so. I do, but I'm very conscious of my help because I realize that, you know, what I did in order to look the way I did, I definitely feel like it had some wear and tear in my body. I mean, putting substance in my body to try to, you know, build the biggest physique. I mean, it's not necessarily natural in the food. We talk about four pounds of meat a day on the kidneys and everything. It's taxing. I mean, that's just the food is the killer.

Yeah. I mean, we can talk about drugs and dehydration and everything else, but that's what kills people is the heart disease. You know, the sugars are the worst things. People don't understand that, you know, too much sugar. I mean, it causes a lot of, it can build up in the heart, you know, and that's where a lot of people are diabetes. I mean, weight challenges. So for me, you know, the stage isn't where I'm kind of putting the end physique now. It's through the channels that I'm putting the content out there and realization that, listen, because you're a dad or because you're, you know, closer to 50 or even 60, like you don't have restrictions like, oh, I can't look certain way.

Yeah. Screw that, right. I've been hearing a lot more stories now about testosterone replacement therapy. It seems like these last five years, it's kind of come out of nowhere. Maybe people are talking about it more. What are your thoughts on that? I do it. Yeah.

I do. But the confusion is what is necessary for someone to replace what they're missing. They say at 35-year levels start to drop. That doesn't mean everyone. I mean, with a balanced diet, breast patterns and everything that's suitable in stress, you can maintain a healthy testosterone level. It doesn't mean it's going to go to zero. But unfortunately, someone like me that used steroids on and off through my career,

it's going to have a hard time for my body to kick back, especially as I get into my age. So I've chosen the path of testosterone therapy. I take around 200 milligrams of tests a week. Okay, it's an injection. That's what's been prescribed to me. And my levels aren't crazy. I mean, last test levels I had were around 660, which is a mid-range.

I mean, some guys were thousands. I mean, if you're in the twos or threes, they consider that a little lower, but not a point where you have to choose to take testosterone. Yeah. I think it helps. Obviously, someone like me that voluntarily used testosterone and other compounds to build my career, I'm going to have a different outlook than a person that's probably never used PEDs ever.

So, and I'm not a doctor, so I can't sit there and say that this is healthy and this long term. But the studies have shown that, you know, lower testosterone can lead to a lot of negative side effects more than just going and replacing it. But, you know, people have this misconception. How it causes cancer or this? What doesn't eat? Right? Sure. I mean, I use a lot of splendor instead of sugar and they say that that's not the best thing.

and a lot of things that we drink, I mean, choose a lot different routes, right? But I think that it can benefit. I would suggest to anyone, if you're feeling tired or you feel like eat or whatever else, I would definitely, you know, in your blood work,

definitely have your testosterone checked. Yeah, I've heard a lot of entrepreneurs now are doing that, Jack. It's extremely popular. It seems, yeah, but I don't know why it just seems like the last few years, people are, I think it's Joe Rogan, because he's really talked a lot of, lot about it.

I believe so. Yeah. But he says you have to do that in addition to training, eating rights, sleeping right? It's like, you know, it's like a supplement, right? It's like I sell fat burners or like you have to work out and diet around them. You can't just take fat burners and you head to the shop, right? It has a combination of things you need to do. But like I said, you can balance your testosterone with the better diet, less stress, great

sleep patterns and sleep is probably the most least spoken about issue with people cannot sleep. Yeah. Because either stress or their schedules rigid or they have sleep apnea. Like a lot, especially in the bodybuilding arena or people that have gained weight have sleep apnea. I would say you ask percentages, I would say 35% of America has sleep apnea. What even is sleep apnea?

It's waking up, choking. You can't breathe. It's blockage. And you have to sleep, you know, you have to go for a sleep study test. Your airway gets blocked as you're sleeping. But it happens so far. It's a number of times. Oh, can that just like wake you out at REM.

Well, people can die. People can die. Yeah, you can't get into deep REM because you wake up every two minutes, like choking because you stop breathing. You don't, you don't realize it. Right. That's really interesting. One thing that I've been hearing a lot recently as well is just getting your blood work

done in general that you should do it like one time a year so you can check all of your levels because I know some people personally that didn't realize they had a problem and they just thought that the way that they were living was just normal life until they got their blood work done and they saw those statistics and numbers and they're like holy cow this makes a lot of sense they find supplements to fix those numbers or whatever and then they feel what it's like to be truly balanced yeah I think at a certain age it's important I mean not to like all along because of what I did for living I always had blood work done. But like cholesterol, I mean, people should be checking cholesterol.

Blood pressure. I mean, a lot of people end up with kidney issues because of high blood pressure. And that, like I said, it's all like, they society is stress related. I think people drink too much caffeine often. Sometimes I have to watch. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm sitting, I'm, I'm, I know, I know. Two cups. It's fine.

But, you know, I sell pre-workouts and whatnot. And I just launched a 400-millimeter. pre-workout caffeine. Oh, my gosh, 400 milligrams. Yeah. And I had one, I have a group. I have a club called Cutler Club, and it's a whole group of avid lifters and whatever else.

And I was on a live feed last night and do these live feeds every two weeks. And I just launched this. And my guy said, I probably shouldn't have taken two scoops. He took 800 migs and it has a lot of other ingredients. What was his workout like? Tyler took one last night. At 6 o'clock, a biggest mistake ever, you know. How late were you up, Tyler?

You're up until 3 a.m. You're up until 3. But he was drenched with sweat. We went and trained at Kilo Club right here, and I'd never seen anyone sweat that bad. Oh, my gosh. I'd be afraid of taking that. For me, one cup of coffee is good enough.

I'll be, I'll be happy to send you some just to see if you want to dare to try it. You can take a half. You can take half of scoop, you know. I got some bankroll coffee for you. Yeah. You can try a bankroll coffee and see which one you prefer before the workout. We kind of addressed it, but why bodybuilding?

Does it come from a place of insecurity? No, no insecurity whatsoever. It was more, I wanted to make my family proud, I guess, my parents. And for me, like self-achievement, maybe. I think that anyone that goes in the gym and lifts weights, it puts you in a different place. It gets a great therapy. I always say this will drink or smoke to try to reach what I get out of the gym. If it makes sense.

And you don't want to understand until you actually get in there and your mind is clear. I can tell you at 18 when I joined that gym and I was there from 8 to 10 at night, all those stresses of like the family, the school, what I was going to do in life went away where I was lost in that weight training. And that's why I stayed with it. And that's why I still do it to this day. Has anyone ever tried to pick a fight with you? Or have you been in a fight?

Yes. What happened? Can you talk about it? I've gotten to fights. I'm not someone, I mean, obviously in my age, I'm not trying to fight anyone. Today, MMA is pretty rampant. Like the littlest guy sometimes can be the toughest guy. But back in my era, I mean, my size intimidated.

But, of course, I mean, you walk in a nightclub and, you know, you got bigger arms than someone else. And, you know, the girl looks at you and all of a sudden. And they're like, you know, and but now today, I'll be honest. I mean, I'm pretty known. So it's not like I'm that person. You know, I'm not known as a badass. I guess if you're a UFC fighter or something like that, people want to pick a fight with you, right?

It's like asking Dwayne Johnson or, I mean, like someone like Hulk Hogan, would you ask those guys, like, would you think that people want to fight them? But I'm sure they've gotten there. Fists a little bit too. But, you know, I get my traffic stuff. I mean, sometimes it's like cut you off and they start flipping you off. And I mean, I've stopped a couple times. Yeah.

But I'm a little. Yeah. Get out of the car. just keep getting out. Yeah. Just keep getting bigger. But I don't want to cause any altercations at this point. I feel like all you really have to do is just like roll up to sit.

Yeah, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean anything these days. I mean, if you look at it, it's scary. It's really scary. I mean, maybe to you. So, you know, maybe. See, now it's going to expose you, man. Anyone that sees you in traffic and like, oh, that guy is a pussy, you know. Yeah.

And do you think all of those forces that you had constantly being pushed onto your body, whether that be like, you know, steroids. or a bunch of crazy diet or pushing yourself all the time in the gym or all of the pre-workout and everything was turning you into a different, affecting personality? You know, I don't think, you know, they say these, you know, these roid rages and that kind of stuff. I never necessarily had that. I think people would say when I got mad, like, they just knew that I took steroids. So they're like, oh, he's having a royd rage.

You know what I mean? It's one of those things. Like, if you got mad, you know, I'm looking at you. I'm not considering you as someone that uses PEDs, right? So I'm kind of like, well, that's just, you know, you're at it, you know, you're angry, like you have maybe just the anger issue, right? So I think it's just easy excuses, you know, well, that guy, you know, he's having a roid rage or whatever. But no, I don't think it necessarily changed my personality.

I mean, obviously as you get, your status becomes higher, you get on a certain level and you feel like a little obligated for certain things. There's no question. I mean, I love to fly first class now, and I don't like to fly. I can't get a flight. I get a little disappointed. It's not comfortable for me. So those kind of things, I guess it's just more of an ego sense. So I guess, you know, you would say I have to have a little bit of an ego if I'm trying

to be the best in the world at something. I want to be super successful, but I don't use it to look down on anyone or kind of treat people differently. I've also heard that body dysmorphia is extremely common. It's very. It's hard to be satisfied with your physique. And you mentioned earlier you don't really pose anymore. Like you said you took off your shirt as though it was a bigger deal.

Yeah, yeah. And I can tell you that like even when I was Mr. Olympia, I would win the show and I would sit at dinner with my crew after and I'd say, how can I be better? So I don't think I read body dysmorphia. I realized I was massive, right? I was huge. I had big arms. I mean, but remember, we have judges that are telling us that we're not.

not wear either great or we're not so great. So I would look at that more than, well, I feel like I'm lagging or I'm a lot smaller. Like, I mean, I was wearing four X shirts at my peak. I mean, you've been still wearing a two X shirt. And I'm not trying to be big at all. I mean, the funny thing is I can sit in front of you guys and you're probably saying, he's not trying to be big. I mean, I look still like a bodybuilder.

Genetically, like I said, I started this thing because I felt like if I just took that step forward, how much better could I be? I was great, you know, flexing at six years old and eight years old and 12. And, you know, I was one of the most muscular kids in my high school. How do they judge, by the way? What do they look at specifically? So they look at symmetry condition and proportions. So basically, like, the calves have to match the arms.

You know, the shoulders have to have a good taper to the waist. The legs have to flare. The condition has to be there. Like, the skin has to be thin, the detail. Like, I was really detailed on my thighs. in my midsection, I had really wide shoulders. So that's really what gave me a great advantage. So when I stood there, it was just very cartoonish, if that makes sense.

And you have to have all those balances. And if you're missing certain body parts, it's very hard to be the best at a competition. Although guys can win at levels, but when you get to stand with the best in the world, which, you know, Mr. Olympia is an international contest. It's usually held here every year. It's here in December this year. It's been going back in port between Florida and here with COVID stuff. it's a lot of things presentation uh you know skin tone you know your fluency and how you

transition on stage like it's just so many different things but mainly the condition has to be there and you have to have a really dehydrated look how do you get that because you were mentioning 24 hours prior you get that like tight skin yeah you percent body fat like what's involved Like I told you, it's a four-month process to really rip down and get, like, I got down to 3% and like off-season. I maybe 12 or 15. So you go on a rigid diet. I mean, mostly I ate a lot of white fish.

I was eating five pounds of white fish a day. So I kept my fats low. And obviously, fluctuation of carbohydrates. Everyone knows, like, a low-carb diet's going to help you, you know, keto, which we never even knew what keto was back in my era because it didn't exist. But so basically you restrict calories.

You do some cardiovascular along with the weight training, which, offseason I did no cardiovascular, so no walking on treadmills or stairs or anything like that. It just strictly weight training. You strip down and then the last week you start cutting water out, you get dehydrated, and then, you know, you start eating carbohydrates a little bit and you find that balance of, you know, cutting the water down and filling the muscles so they push against the skin as much as possible. Wow.

And you create that shrink wrap look. So it's kind of, it's kind of different where you take out the carbs in the last week, you add them back in, but you cut water at the same time. So you get the fullness in the muscle because a lot of carbs bring glycogen to the muscle, which is, you know, the filler of the muscle. So it pushes. And then you dehydrate. So the skin gets super thin.

And then you get that limited time where you're just vainy and shrink wrapped and cut. You get on stage and you feel like hell, but you look amazing. Wow. Is it tiring when you're on stage to like be flexing or like, do you feel like you're pushing yourself very hard. You practice. So every day I would do 30 minutes, like at least six weeks leading up to the contest. So that was seven days a week practice the posing. So there's like seven or eight poses that they call. So you see these commercial, you see everyone do the front old bicep or you do the most muscular. Like those are all part of the poses, side chest, back double bicep, back,

lat spread. We have those mandatory poses that they call out and they put us in a line and they compare everyone. Then you have your free posing. whatever else, but it's mainly those seven or eight poses against the other guys in a lineup that separates you, and that's how they do the judging. But it's very subjective. You know, no one's punching someone out or scoring points. They're just, the judges eye those physiques, and they pick out who has the best flow. See, I wonder how important size is, because if I look at someone like David Laid, I sure you know who he is, he's like, I see that physique and I'm like, This, in my opinion, is like a perfect physique.

He looks very much so human, very ripped, shredded, you know what I mean, crazy abs, crazy pecks. What would happen do you think if he tried out for a bodybuilding competition? He would do well on a certain level. Remember, he's a natty guy. Natty means natural, you know, not enhanced. So at levels, like something like that with conditioning and certain flow to his physique,

it now with the different divisions. In a bodybuilding contest, he'd get destroyed. because he's not on the lines of bodybuilding because he's taller. And, you know, when you're taller, you're going to have shorter guys that are more stockier that are filled out a little more. So now you have classic physique or men's physique, which he probably could do well in, you know, as far as like trying to stand next to someone like me,

that would be really difficult. But I mean, he's a lot younger than me. And obviously he's not enhanced or anything like that. That's probably too much for me. I mean, yeah, it's too much. I'll never be able to achieve that. But do you think, I mean, he's not. that big in person, guys.

That's a very attainable for you. I could put you on a 10-week program and put you in that shape. 10-week program. I think I could get like that in 10 weeks. Wow. Yeah. Really? If you were dedicated, yeah.

And what would that involve? Training and probably clean up the diet a lot. I don't know how strict you are in your diet, but... I feel like I'm strict, but I don't see that rate of results. How many meals a day do you eat? Probably not enough. Probably two to three. Not enough, yeah.

Your metabolism is not. going fast enough. Yeah. Remember, the more you eat, it's like feeding, you know, wood or fire, a cold to a fire, right? More you feed it, the larger the flame gets, right? Yeah. That's kind of, you go to thinking metabolism, the same thing.

So every time you shoot food at it, keeps the body burning, and that's how you want it. See, part of me is like I got a bit of a belly that I got during COVID, and I want to eat less to get rid of that, just to have more like a flat stomach. But I think that doesn't coincide with, you know, building muscle. And so I'm in that weird in between where it's like, I don't want to, you know, grow out of gut. The amazing thing is, even with your diet right now, if I said to you, Graham, I want you to walk your neighborhood every morning when you wake up for 30 minutes.

Well, here's what I've done is almost three months ago. I said for the next 90 days, I want to go to the gym at least five to six days a week for one hour. And so I'm on day, probably 80 something of that. And of that one hour, I always do 30 minutes of cardio. and I just track on the treadmill. It usually burns between $250,300 calories. I've noticed a bit of a difference, but I feel like I should be noticing more.

And I don't eat dessert. I eat very little sugar. The only sugar I really eat throughout the day that I know of is probably a little bit of cream that I put in a coffee, maybe twice a day. That won't affect you. But in the morning, I eat a protein bar with coffee, and that's usually all I have until probably 12, maybe 12.30.

Then I'll have probably a pre-made salad at Trader Joe's or maybe some leftovers from the night before. And then it's dinner as could be mixed up between sushi. Your protein levels are probably too low. That's probably it, yeah. I mean, what's your body weight today? 130. So I would say, let's say you have 100 pounds of lean muscle.

Okay, if you really took all that stuff away. So you should take in 1.25 grams of protein per pound of body mass. So you should, let's say you need 125 grams of protein. You're probably not taking in that much. Probably. You know what I mean? you eat, think about it, even if you ate 40 a meal times three, it's only 120 grams. Right.

You're probably a 40, a chicken breast, eight ounce chicken breast is like 40 grams of protein. Right. I mean, 12 egg whites is, an egg whites, like three grams of protein for egg whites. So you'd have to eat 12 egg whites to eat 36 grams. Right. And you're probably not eating that. So I think you're probably, if you bumped your protein up, even if you used a protein shake or whatever, I'd be happy, I'd be happy to send you. I would love to try that.

We should have brought the, but we'll make sure. I would send it. I'll be happy to send you out your supplement companies. Yeah, cut the nutrition, very easy. Yeah, there we go. What advice would you say you have for my physique if I'm trying to get that David late? Okay, obviously I can't get that. First of all, you gotta shave the arms, you know, it will show more muscle definition, yeah.

Well, look at his, look at his pictures. He doesn't have a big body hair. I kind of like living on my chest here, my arm hair because it hides. Well, you know, that's, that's the weirdest thing. Like when I started training, oh, I remember doing the competition, like you need to shave everything. Okay, everything. is my way to put on these little posing trunks, and that was a strangest thing for me.

Like, it took a lot of work to shave down the body. Like, at a razor, I'd have someone do it for me. And it was continuous. Once you start, you can't stop. Like, to this day, like, I'm still shaving my arms and my chest and whatever. I just don't let kind of grow out like that. And, you know, I tried doing waxing for a while on my back and everything. Because once you shave your back, it's like it grows like crazy.

And, you know, that's probably like maintenance is the hard part. But I would definitely say, You know, just focus on getting leaner. I mean, you're looking at David and saying that's inspiring to you. Remember, it's all about being cut. And I could tell you that both you guys need to clean your diet up a lot. Like, focus, if you said, okay, for five weeks or whatever, I'm going to stay, pay attention to a good diet, you'd see a lot of progress.

So for the past couple of weeks, ever since, honestly, we had Liver King on the podcast, which was like a million a month ago. Maybe. Yeah, I've been really just eating like a Chipotle bowl. which is usually what I have for lunch and then chicken and potatoes or chicken and rice or steak. And you're training consistently?

Yeah, I would say consistently. Yeah. What did the liver king teach you guys? Like if you walked away with one thing you got out of him on physique-wise was what? The liver. He delivered? Yeah, he says like basically like high protein.

I've never had liver. You haven't? Does any part of you want to? Absolutely not. Yeah, same with me. He's got crazy. abs that guy. Yeah.

Have you seen his ab routine? I watched a little bit. Yeah. It's crazy. One of our influencer friends actually shot a video with him. This guy, Jesse James West. Yep. He's one of my favorite YouTube.

Yeah. So he's a lot of energy. We've done a couple of videos together. And he kind of told me like the Liver King's team kind of like did all set up everything that was inside that video. Because normally he's like very structured with how he shoots Jesse. You know, he's very methodical about his approach on doing his YouTube videos. He's very dedicated.

Actually, you know what's funny is that he called, he was living with David. And they came to Vegas and he hit me up. Jesse wasn't super popular then. And he said, I'm on a shoot at YouTube. And David, you know, David came and he didn't work out with us, but Jesse shot with us. And that was at, he was at 500K. And he's like, I'm going to hit a million by the end of the year. That's my goal.

And I was kind of like, okay, yeah, whatever, you know. And he went up to a million. Now he's at two. Yeah. But, you know, it's nonstop. Like, we were just in L.A. last week together shooting for young LA and and he's like telling me I'm doing this project this project and he's he just texts me yesterday and he's like hey can I get you and Ronnie Coleman together

you know because he shot with Ronnie Coleman recently and he's always thinking like what's the next thing yeah but the liver king I mean I'm intrigued by what he kind of puts out there and I still don't understand a lot of it in crazy midsection on the guy but are you doing abs more since seeing his abs. Did he sit here with his shirt off? He did. Yeah. He doesn't put on a shirt. Really? Yeah. And I was saying like, even at the casino, I'm like, you're staying at a hotel. No way. He goes, no, I'm liver king.

I don't wear a shirt. And they don't care, huh? I saw him on the strip greeting fans in a video. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he was here for. So he did some stuff. So what did you learn? Liver. Liver, I mean, he just said, take, what was it immense momentum in one direction? which is kind of what I alluded to you a little bit earlier. I honestly learned a lot,

but not much of it was like about like physique or physical activity. It was more other stuff. Yeah, I think the most surprising part was his diet was a lot of raw meats. And that for me, like I could like he brought out a whole plate of like there was a testicle on there, liver, heart, kidney. Did you eat it? Yeah. What did it taste like? Honestly, okay.

Don't say horrible. I know you're going to say. say horrible. I was about say honestly. The testicles definitely was one of my least favorites, just flavor.

I even know, you know, aside what it is. What kind of testicle? Old testicle. It had apparently been a lot that morning. It was like that.

Yeah. That was pretty gross. The kidney was really gross because that's what filters, you know, urine. Yeah. So it kind of honestly

tasted like urine. The heart was good. They say urine's good for you to drink, though. Really? Yeah. says that. Remember the boxer was drinking his own urine?

You don't remember that when he fought Mayweather? Yeah. No, he didn't win. Of course he didn't. No one wins against him. Yeah, but yeah, the liver was decent and the heart was good. The heart was honestly kind of steaky. And those cuts tasted a little like sashimi.

See, I don't know the, man, I don't know if I could do that. You should do something with Liver King. I know, but I don't think I can eat that stuff. But neither did I. He brought it in and it was professionally prepared. the chef, you could tell this was like, like, Michelin Star sort of preparation. And it was cooked or?

No, it was raw. But they get it, but they seem to get it so fresh. It's cut in these like little tiny squares. I think I would have had an easier time had I not knowing what that was. Like if they told me, oh, this is seafood. It's like sushi. Probably would have had an easier time.

It's the mental aspect. See, that's the thing with me is like you asked about like eating out and what, like, isn't, I just can't bend. to try anything. Like, I've never had Kentucky Fried Chicken, never had Taco Bell. Taco Bell? I had,

I actually had Chick-fil-A for the first time. What'd you think? Weeks ago. Yeah, I kind of gave me a stomachache, to be honest. Did you get the grilled chicken or the fried? I think I got, like, a spicy chicken sandwich, and I had the waffle fries. You like those waffle fries.

They were pretty good. They were good, but, like, I don't know if I'll go back, to be honest. Sure. Like, I, I still feel like you're inhibiting yourself from enjoying life. I am. I am, and I think it stems, from how I grew up. I mean, I grew up, you know, a household, like I said, seven kids, you know, my dad,

my parents separated when I was four. So my dad pretty much kind of raised my mom moved to Florida. And we weren't allowed to have sugar cereals. They had no McDonald's. So you asked me about McDonald's, like we didn't have one locally. Like, we had to travel ways to do it. And we go to the grocery store. My dad would cook all these huge dinners every night.

And we were very restrictive to what we had. So I guess it stems from that. And I was really kind of. a introvert if that makes sense where I didn't I never slept to anyone's house ever I never like I stayed out and did things with other kids but I wasn't I had like mainly two friends all through high school that were like super close to me I mean I was friendly with everyone but I was just really secluded from a lot of things I think that's you know how I was brought up you should do a video with Liver King you should you should have them on your

podcast yes you guys did a video together or you went to his place and you did what's called the barbarian. Yep. I trained this morning for that. Yeah, this would be a video guaranteed. I don't know what that is, though. That's what Jesse James West did. Oh, he did, okay.

Drag the sled. Okay. Okay. 130 pounds, 20 pound ankle weights on each hand. You're wearing a backpack that has, I think, 70 pounds in it, and you're holding 70 pound kettlebells in each hand. You walk a mile, and you can never take the backpack off. With that, though, I would have no fear of bailing.

I mean, you would be able to do it easily. You know, you say that, but just because I'm me and, like, What I've achieved 20 years ago, dude, is different from now. You know? I mean, I'm not the same person. Remember, I'm almost 50. So it's a lot harder to do things at the gym. Like, I pick up weight.

I look at some of the weights I used to do. Like, I used to take a 200-pound dumbbell and hook it with my fingers like this and row it, no problem. And I literally went to move 150s at the gym the other day and I thought I was going to tear my bicep. Still, man, your 50s, like most people's. prime prime prime at like you know 20 i know but i'm j cutler it's different right i mean that's the thing is yeah when you say like how did you prepare yourself i used to look in the mirror and be like

okay you're not normal you know you're j cutler it's like people used to say how'd you get psyched up and go to the gym and sometimes it's loud music sometimes it's like switching gyms having training partners i used to fly people in and out to kind of challenge myself but a lot of it was looking the mirror and being like okay this is your job this is what people expect it I have one of those things. Like every week in I travel, it's like you hear one more story of how someone was inspired by this crazy thing that I did, that I have no idea I even forgot that I did.

And that's really what kind of continues to be a driver for me. Did you ever have any financial goals? Like hit a million net worth before 30, 10 million before this age? I never really did. I mean, I always said I want to retire from bodybuilding and, you know, not have to struggle. And I think, you know, there were certain things. I wanted to buy a home.

You know, I wanted to drive a nice car. My original goal was to buy a Corvette, drive it across the desert with the top down. Like, that was my dream to California. You listened to Journey soundtrack. I had all these, like, little things, and I blew past all that. But never, you know, although I've reached a, you know, financial freedom,

I still to this, don't talk about if I could make this or make that. It's more. You know, when you have a brand and you are the brand, it's more about being recognized. I think for me, if you said in the end, like, what is your whole goal with this thing? And I want to be spoken about as like one of the greatest bodybuilders ever. And that means all around, not just competitive, but like giving back and people learning from and, you know, being a figurehead that is inspiring to people in all aspects. And I feel I've kind of achieved that in a sense. I mean, just by the feedback that I get.

and my interaction on social media, like I try to learn. And, you know, I surround myself with a younger generation of people. And, you know, that's, that's kind of really, you know, what intrigues me now because everything is moving so fast. And what a year ago is what's happening is way different from today? So what's your strategy right now with social media? Do you have platforms that you prioritize? Um, yeah, I mean, I'm still working YouTube consistently, um, Instagram.

obviously has been something that was introduced to me back in 2012 and I have all my business on there. I use Facebook still. I have six and a half million on Facebook so I still utilize. I still think that has an audience. TikTok, I think, has really been the most thing people have talked about over the last year and I brought someone on to, you know, to help me with that to kind of understand it a little better. So I'm just creating more informational posts now, meaning instructional and more about mindset, motivation for people and really to show like knowledge from someone that's been there, done that. So I think the content is really, you know, and like I mentioned, the podcast is important for me

because it's not just me going to the gym and visually you watching. It's like getting into the mindset, okay, how do you prepare for this? You know, I talk about my travel experiences. I talk about some finance on there. I think right now everyone's in fear of what's going to happen over the next three to six. to 12 to 24 months. I mean, we don't know what direction it's going. We keep hearing all these.

Every time I turn on YouTube and I watch a lot of finance people, all I hear about is like, get ready for the worst destruction ever. You could thank this guy for that. You know, they don't know what's coming. And it's like month after month, here we are. And the world hasn't fallen apart yet. You know, and we talk about, you know, I watch Vegas real estate because So many people are moving here for the state income tax and leaving California and they're going to Texas or other places to Florida.

But everyone wants to buy a home. They're like, oh, is the crash going to come like 2008? And I don't think we're going to see 2008 again. I was in 2008, which, by the way, was my biggest earning year in professional bodybuilding ever. Because everyone went to the gym and started buying supplements that year when they lost their jobs and they were depressed. but will we see a reduction, you know, 20% or what I mean, I think that's what they're kind of saying. I think. Probably.

Yeah, it depends on the year. I mean, the rates are scaring everyone, but I know people are still buying because they're like, you know what, I'll just refinance, right? They think the rates are going to come back down to two, but we never see it. It's like gasoline going back down to three, right? Is it going to happen? That's what everyone is saying right now is that they're, oh, no, a few years, they'll pivot and then I'll refinance it, you know, four or three.

I don't know if that'll happen. We could stay at five, six for a while. When I took the loan on my home 2007, the current home I live in, and I paid five and a half percent. In fact, that was an amazing rate. So when we got down to our two and a half, you know, realistically three, let's say what it was, I mean, I know people talked about a two percent. Depends on what you bought. Exactly. So in my credit's eight plus and everything.

So, man, I don't know if we're going to see those days, right? I don't think so. I mean, that's kind of free money in a sense. Even one of the auto loans I had on one of my vehicles, you know, I bought a G-Wagon with the benefit tax benefit. You know, I got a 1.9% interest rate from Bank of America. Was that before the- 2012, I bought it.

Okay. So that was right as they were selling over MSRP? I got it slightly over sticker. Okay. And now it's still going way over sticker. But I financed through Mercedes for $6. months just to ask you to hold that and then I refinanced with Bank of America and I got a 1.9% today I you know I called once ago said what's the rate at five percent yep so it's inflation I mean if you're on there

shouting about you know what the market's going to do I think that's everyone's living in fear right now and I mean listen airline tickets I fly consistently it's like double what it was last year pandemic I remember one of my friends who had over a hundred doors you know call me, I'm so scared because, you know, pandemic thing. And I remember thinking, oh, it's going to go away. And all of a sudden, like, they locked us down. And it was like, oh, wow. Yep.

I never imagined in my life that the world would close. Yeah, I remember that for months. And that's what, for me, really pushed me full time to YouTube. Until then, I was like, you know, 80% YouTube. I was still doing 20% real estate on the side. But when everything shut down, I went a high. hundred and like 10 percent it was all I did so you benefited from it but you just said that your physique suffered oh yeah well part of that was because I was doing so much on youtube that I thought

I'm going to put my physique aside put like the health aspect aside because I'm going to get more ROI right now doing YouTube and like making that my focus so if I get an extra hour on YouTube that to me was better than an hour this is what I've tried to preach not to do your health is everything right your health is everything that you you, like without perfect health, how successful are you? Right? I mean, my thought was that I could always get back to it. Of course.

I mean, that's always a thing. I was just like, you know, sitting home eating like all the time. But it was just instead of going to the gym for an hour, get an extra hour work. And that's the same, same people. I think they can buy a house at 7% interest rate and say, well, I'll get back to the lower interest rate, right? But I have gone back to the gym, made it consistent. not to the same degree as I was prior,

but I'd say pretty good. And how do you feel after you train every day? Right. Do you feel like clarity and? I would say 85, maybe 90% of the time I do. Yeah. Yeah, I don't notice a huge difference going into the next day. I always feel better afterwards.

I don't know if that carries forward through the next day. I think it does. I haven't really noticed a huge difference. And so your positive message to anyone that, watches your content. Would you say consistency is necessary? Because you just said you sacrificed to be more consistent with the media, right? Yeah, it has to.

Yeah. Did you say YouTube is your biggest asset to your success? 100%. 100%. Yeah. But during COVID, there was so much happening every day that I couldn't afford to miss one upload, one thing. And so that was sometimes I even post like some back to back every day

because there were things that if I didn't talk about this, someone else was. Yeah. I'm not going to get another opportunity. So Arnold Schwarzenegger said that nowadays bodybuilding is basically a bunch of like roided out people and it isn't very aesthetic anymore. Basically, people see these bodies and are turned off from the sport rather than turned on to it.

And I know back when you were competing in your heyday, that was a lot different than what it is today, today. What's your opinion on this? Do you think that people have lost sight of the whole just like idea of something being aesthetic and they fill that in with just being, massive and I don't I don't think that's true necessarily there are some what we call freaks which is actually good thing in body billing uh you know it's really it's tough for someone like arnold who was in that 70s era to look at the physiques and think they're not going to advance you

know it's kind of like professional football where you know linemen with billy broke 300 pounds and now if you're not 350 or you know what i mean you can't even be competitive i think that you know we still have some aesthetics, but yes, there are some mass monsters. I am victim of becoming bigger than what I probably should have, but I needed to absolutely win. I mentioned that Ronnie and myself were bigger than everyone else, and that's what kind of the judges put us in first and second place. The advancement of everything is sometimes not looked upon by our former champions

to be as productive or attainable. There's no question. the food has become more extreme. The supplements have advanced. The weight equipment itself has become something that's different. Like we have way more machines. Look at the leg difference from Schwarzenegger's era to now. I mean, guys, their legs are crazy.

I mean, I had some of the best legs in bodybuilding where it was very few people that had that kind of leg development back in the era. But they did bring back classic bodybuilding to be a little more streamlined than the open men's bodybuilding. but I would somewhat agree with Arnold but disagree in a sense. Like in the end, I mean, it's advancement of everything and there's a lot of variables that go into. It's not just the steroid use. I wouldn't look upon that.

There are other compounds that are being used that maybe weren't available in Arnold's era. But like, he wasn't drug-free himself. So, I mean, it's, you know, not everyone, you know, it's kind of an open feel. We don't necessarily have drug testing in it. So it's easy for his perception to be like, this is what, causes it. But I believe that definitely things have advanced, sometimes for the better or worse, but you'd still have some aesthetics mixed in with mass monsters too. And, you know, in the end, it's really down to the judging and deciding who is going to be the first place winner at the

major contests. If you were to pick out a defining, like, muscle or feature on your body that you think as like the iconic J. Cutler muscle and then one that you think that you could have worked on more. It's the quads for sure for me. I mean, I had tons of detail. I had striations. I mean, the quad stump is something I'm known for, especially with the younger generation now. For me, you know, my back held me back or against Ronnie Coleman because he was just so advanced in the back area. Like I mentioned, the conditioning factor was always the downfall to me, meaning my consistency from show to show to have perfect conditioning. We talked about that dehydration process and, you know, making sure the muscles full enough and wrapped.

That was probably the downside. I was definitely not blessed with a small waist. So I had to offset with larger legs and larger shoulders to create, like I mentioned, that V taper. So you want to have the V taper, you know, and the legs come out. So it's definitely, you know, like I said, everyone's going to have their strong and their weak points, if that makes sense. And when you're working out, what's your favorite workout day?

Like biceps. Back or legs because they're the most challenging. Really? I hate arm training. It's so boring to me because it's so repetitive. It's either curls or press downs or whatever else for triceps. But I love the challenging. It's like the leg training.

Remember, the legs are half the body. And the back training, like I mentioned, I had a week back against some of the grades early on. So I had to really improve that. Mr. Olympia is not won by anyone without a tremendous back. What do you listen to at the gym? I don't listen to anything. Really? Yeah, I mean, half the time I don't have a headset.

You know, the gym I train at doesn't have a lot of loud music. Sometimes I don't even hear the music. I'm so zoned in. I don't really have a playlist. I do get approached, but I train it more of gyms now that I don't have that issue. But I do, like when I went to Venice last week, obviously took a million pitchers when I was there. I didn't have a headset in or anything. So a lot of times I just, I'm paying attention of what weights I'm pushing and my mind

to muscle connections. If it makes sense, training for me now is meditation, meaning like it's a time where I can kind of escape any kind of thought process. And my goal to go in the gym is just to not think about any problems or priorities. It's about putting my mind into that muscle and just working and just putting my headspace in an absent area where I don't have any stresses or have anything that's on my mind whatsoever. It's an escape. Like, I get up and do my fast cardi this morning and it's meditating.

So when you say, what do you listen to? I listen to all the things in my head that I try to escape from and just try to have a clear mind. One thing I hear a lot and one thing Liver King really emphasized when he was on our podcast is the fact that you need to get your body right before you can get your mind right because there are a lot of parallels that are drawn between people that are physically fit

and also successful entrepreneurs or successful in whatever field that they're in. Do you find this to be true being around people that are? It carries over. I think if you take care of your physique and, you know, you're happy. I mean, how many people wake up in the morning

and look in the mirror and say, I'm happy with you at love? I mean, that's the, knowing, like, my fan base, I mean, 98% of the people wake up and say, I'm not happy with how I look. I mean, I can tell you I'm one of those people. Like, I always want to see self-improvement. So I think that it carries over into everything that you do. So, yes, getting the body right. I mean, we mentioned the health aspect.

I mean, want to be healthy. Some people view health. They don't look inside. They look on the outside first. and then, you know, they, they concern themselves. I mean, it should be the opposite way, but you need a lot of, like I said, it's not just like going to the gym and working out. You're not going to see automatic results.

It's the nutrition and the sleep patterns and everything. So your body needs to be right in order for your mind. If, you know, if you don't get sleep, you know, or if you don't have a way to relieve stress, how functional is your mind going to be? If you're just stressed audio, I mean, that's why weight training can be so therapeutic for people. Sure it works well for you.

I mean, you know, I still have goals. Like, I can't wait to go to the gym today. Sitting here at this interview. I'm going to do back today, but I can't wait to train. Like if you said, well, you know, you've asked about like, hey, what are your goals and whatever? But my goal is to go to the gym every day and have the best workout ever. I mean, I'm going to go to the office after this and I'm going to focus on business and do some phone calls, answers some emails I didn't get to this morning.

Can you tell us your back routine? Yeah, I'm going to start with today. I'm going to start with pull-ups. I'm going to do wide grip pull-ups and then I'm going to do reverse grip pull-downs. I'm going to do bent barbed row row's reverse grip. I'm going to do a one-arm dumbbell row and I'm going to do seated cable rows with a closed grip. I already know because I already thought about this before.

Wow. That was like every day. Is that the whole? Every day because it's always different, but I already went through. I visualize the day prior like what I'm going to do. So when I walk in the gym, it's like it's just not even,

it's robotic, right? But I already visualize, like, how many, I'm going to do eight to 12 repetitions or whatever. I'm going to do, I'm going to try to get 12 reps. But I'm going to, I already know, like, looking,

I can already visualize the weight stack and putting 180 on the seated cable rows. And I'm going to, I'm going to do, you know, one arm rows with hundreds. Like, I already know, I'm going to shoot for at least eight reps with the pull-ups,

you know, body weight pull. And is there a specific workout or one rep or something that you look back on? You remember that to be one of the artist, if not the hardest thing that you've had to do. For example, like maybe you were doing bench and there was, like you said, when you did, what was it, like 500 or something for two?

550, yeah. 550 for two, like that second rep right there. Or maybe you got like a nose bleed or something when you were working? No, you know, I used to squat until my nose bled, if that makes sense. So we had this mirror at the Gold's Gym in Worcester, Massachusetts. And there was a lot of spit on the mirror because the squat wreck was up against the mirror. So the guys would, you ever see the guy squat and they go, and they, but I would actually squat.

I didn't squat until like so much blood. It was like my nose would, you know, and I thought that was the coolest thing at 18. And you guys are sitting here like, what the hell? Yeah, but, you know, listen, that's what I mean. Like you have to be a little mentally messed up to push yourself. Think about that. I'm sitting on, you know, people look at me as like,

oh, you know, Jay is a successful entrepreneur and bodybuilder, you know, one of the smarter guys in bodybuilding. And I'm sitting there telling a story how I squatted to my note, how great that was. like that's the levels we pushed ourselves to that was the metric was like okay we're good but but you know I used to do lunges I remember gold's gym Sahara decatur we had a gold's gym there it's out of business now and I literally would drag the bar outside and I put 225 on the bar and I would do walking lunges in 120 degrees and I thought that was the coolest thing ever and I remember like throwing the bar off my back and trying to

catch my breath and the air is so heavy because it's over 100 degrees and you know the summers I was training for Olympia. So this was like July. Think about that. The bar would just be burned. Oh, well, it was hot, you know, but I would stay out there for maybe, you know, 15 minutes doing these lunges back and forth. You know, I would do at least 10 steps per leg.

And I thought that was the coolest thing ever because I was striving to be the best in the world at what I did. And I used to think this is what I'm going to think about when I stand on Olympia stage and win the title. And it's exactly what I thought about. Like I kind of had flashback. every time I won, like, of what it took to get there. I remember, like, being in Massachusetts trudging through the snow to get to the gym and Wistair when I first started. I remember driving to Maine and, you know, two hours up there so my nutritionist could,

I take my clothes off so he could see how I looked and any congestions to my diet and drive two hours home. I'd spend four hours in the car and literally 15 minutes, like, in his condo so he could adjust my diet and then drive back. I did that all my days off. I'd fly all over the country to do tissue work. I did massage therapy, like neuromuscular therapy, and I had therapists all over,

but I had one in California. So when I moved out of Elisa Viejo and I moved to Vegas, I would fly back on my days off every week to have this guy work me for an hour, and I would fly back. I mean, it cost me $500 for the trip back and forth, but I didn't care because it was, you know, tuning my body to be better on stage.

So we talk about the prize money at the Olympia. I'd spend all that $150 or $200 on all. preparations you know the you hear about LeBron James he spends a million a year to body to be his best like that was my and that was my asset so I I figured okay if I could keep putting the money into it and today I attribute a lot of that like dedication to my success of walking around without pain still being able to train a lot of guys in my heiress can't train like this they're finished like they just have aches and pains and are they just not interested like

like I said, bodybuilding was something I loved when I was 12 and I still love it just as much today. I don't plan on competing again, but, you know, I have different goals. What's this?

So this is the newest adventure. So this is a pet butter. So I have one that's, it has glucosamine and whatever in it, but this is more of a flavored one. So this is for dogs. You know, it's a little treat for them.

So it's basically healthy peanut butter because a lot of peanut butter don't have great ingredients. But this is, is the start. So these are my two little little ones here. So that's Dazing Compa by the way. Oh my gosh. So this is my newest

kind of launch out the start of my pet products. Yeah, we can't say the word Enutter because she goes nuts. Oh yeah? That's the one food where she just goes crazy for us. So I want it.

I want, yeah, so when you check it out, you know, you just mix it up a little bit and give her a little bit each day or whatever and healthy fats. Can humans eat this? Of course, yeah. It tastes really good, actually. Really?

Yes. Of course. I give one for the dogs and one for me. No way, because I actually ran out this morning. I literally ran out. So I was like scraping every last. So if you kidnap one of these, it's okay. Okay.

This one actually, this one has more flavor to it than that because that's more for joints and everything else that added glucosamine. So yeah, I'm looking at the ingredients like this sounds delicious. I would eat this. So put this, put this on your, on your toast tomorrow. You know what I'm saying? Thank you. How do you stay looking so young?

It's almost 50. I mean, you don't. Yeah. Talks early. I don't know. Is it water as well? Yeah, I drink a lot of water. You know, I use sunscreen.

I use a lot of lot of lot of lotions. I try to stay out of the sun as much as it's crazy. I live in Vegas, right? You stay out with the sun, you know. I have a pool. My back. I think, you know, I walked outside this morning, actually. I did my cardio around my neighborhood.

And I think stress. You know, we talk about stress. And I think that I'm a very relaxed person. And nothing really gets to me. Like, I'm super chill and paid back. And I feel that stress and I don't drink or smoke. I don't know if that has something. I don't know.

If you ask me that question, I don't know. I feel like, you know, I see my, self aging but at the same time I guess I guess you're comparing me versus some other people sure yes and I think that you the better question is to ask those people I look right that's good call is there anything else Jack no let me let me let me double check make sure I hit every one of these yeah hey that's it's there anything else you want to know no I mean you know I appreciate you guys having me on and like I said I've I'm always interested it's so cool that you're local you're like you know and I

I wish when you met me originally, you would have said, hey, I'm actually on YouTube or, you know, maybe at the time you weren't interested in doing a video. I was. I was. I messaged you right afterwards. Oh, really? Okay. So, you know, it's just, like I said, you know, my message to everyone is, you know, the consistency in life.

And I think that if you asked me, like, what, what kind of drives me is, you know, having the feedback. Remember, I travel so much and I get feedback from people on, you know, why they follow me. And sometimes I ask people, how do you know who I am? Because they're a younger demographic or they look like they necessarily don't work out, right? And it's just the smallest thing like I picked up a magazine or I saw something on social media. And it's relating to like something that I did in my life. And I think that's the coolest thing ever because selfishly I work to become the best bodybuild in the world. And honestly, all I cared about was, you know, in the beginning, getting featured in books,

you know, winning on stage, having all these. I have a crazy trophy room at my house. And I look around that room and I don't get the satisfaction I did 20 years ago because I'm not in it anymore. And I think that, you know, there's going to be more champions that come along in bodybuilding. But there's going to be more people in life that, you know, follow people on different aspects. And I think it's a unique opportunity for me to have the platforms that I do. It's very interesting to see someone like yourself that I'm probably sure that you'd never imagine it would be this level, right? So we keep spreading our messages and I'm all about positivity and, you know, just consistency with what you do.

One thing I can say about content and messages, it has to be constant. And I think that someone listening to this will learn that, you know, much driven and focused I was. Like it was a lot of consistency, right? in life and in general. So relationships, you know, lifestyle, everything is constant. I see you guys having me. You're welcome. You're welcome.

We'll link to everything down below in the description. Thank you for coming on. It's great meeting you. I really appreciate it. And I can't wait to hear about this barbarian challenge. I can't wait to maybe see the physique progression. You know, don't let him kind of beat you as far as. Train, train.

This morning I was dragging the sled. I was wearing the backpack. Yeah, kettlebells in hands, 57 pound water. So don't. So don't let me down. So I expect you to complete the challenge when it. We said January, right? January.

And you're going to film it, right? Yeah. I can't wait to see it. Cool. Thanks, man. If you want the connection to Liver King, just let us know too. I appreciate that so much. Drey knows who I am.

Cool. Oh, that was amazing. Holy cow. You want to get the...