The Iced Coffee Hour - Meet The Man Who Makes $3 Million Doing Nothing

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

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Welcome back to the Ice Coffee Hour. I am Charlie from Charisma on Command, and this podcast so far has made $212,000 of ad revenue. Hey. No. That's close. Yeah, if we compare that with our other guests, that's close. Yeah, it's compared to the other guest. You came in, you're like, I watched the other episode.

You told me he said 160, but then you said it was old. Yeah, I didn't expect you'd say that much. Well, it's 163. Okay. Slower growth than I had originally anticipated. Yeah. Add rates are down. So, uh, January's not the best month.

No, it's not, but, but this was the worst January in, in going back the last like four years compared to December. For us too. Just RPMs? Yeah, everything's down 25%. Yeah. We are, with views down, we're at a third of what we were in December. Oh, man. So I had to sell a house.

Oh, wow. No, no, we're fine. We're good. That's not where most of our money comes in. We can talk about all of that. Let's talk about it. I'm looking forward to it. So you've had a channel now gone on seven years, right?

So that makes you official. you're an OG YouTuber. Yeah, I was like second generation. Okay. The OG's, the Joey Greceph is and all those people at VidCon. I remember going to my first Vidcom and looking at them and not feeling in the same league as them. But yeah, we've been doing it since 2014 was the first video I put up.

But we didn't really catch any traction until 2016 or so when we started doing the breakdown style that I think we've become more known for these days. So for those that don't know, charisma on command. Yeah, maybe your audience doesn't know this. I should introduce myself. Yeah, it'd probably be a good idea. It's a YouTube channel where basically they teach people like, like tips and tricks, how to be more charismatic, how to get people to like you, how to tell funny

jokes that don't hurt other people, how to be the most confident person in the room, stuff like that. Yes. So self-help stuff. You know what the funny thing is I've been recommended so many of your videos because you have this few videos every now and then that just pop off that just kept showing up on the homepage. And I know, just like even before all of this years ago, I know, I know I've seen the channel

before. Yeah. And I think a lot of people have. Yes, I think people, they don't realize it because it's not like a face that is often associated with. did a video predicting that Trump would win the presidency early on in his presidential run. We've got some of the most famous Marvel actors. I think they think of us as like a screen rant sometimes or some faceless corporation, but really it's mostly me and Ben and Ivan and a handful

of other people behind the scenes. Nothing too crazy or complicated. It is crazy because I remember the first time I met you was at Vid Summit and this was October, was it? October that time. And I recognize the name charisma on command, but I didn't really really read. recognize, I didn't recognize you nor Ben. And then I looked back and I like saw your videos and the types of videos you made. And I was like, wow, I've watched so many of these over the course of like the last like three, four years. It's just like randomly shows up in my feet. I'm like, how can I be more charismatic? Yeah. Exactly. It worked. Yeah. He made such a good first impression. No fucking joke. I told you this, right? What was the, what did Jack do? What do you do?

Okay. So when you're at when you're at fit someone, you were there, there's this idolization thing that can happen when people introduce themselves to you and they get really nervous and they put you on a pedestal and it can be alienating. And then there's the reverse where people play it way too cool and they don't give a shit about what you do and they're trying to not do that first thing. You were able to be complimentary of our channel and then treat us like humans instantly. And it was like, yo, dude, I love your channel. Do you want to get a drink and play poker? Is that what you said? I don't remember. I don't remember. No, we were playing, we were playing, what, hold them that night. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you didn't take it easy on me.

You clean me out. Wow. Wow. That's high praise. Exactly. No, you made a fantastic first impression. Thank you.

And then we said to state itself. She came and visited the house and here we are. We got to talk about this house, by the way. And almost, yeah, six million subscribers later for you, right? Yes, we're at about, so we've got several foreign, do you guys have foreign language channels? No, we do not. You should consider it. And I can introduce you to some of my people if you're interested.

Yeah. We have, it's about five on our main channel, but then another four or so on foreign language channels that we just give them access to. our Google Drive, they usually translate or dub over it. And we own all the channels, split half the revenue that comes from course sales and ad rev. It's not a ton of rev, but it's like a significant amount of our views are in foreign countries, which is pretty cool. We're legit, more famous in Russia on a per capita basis than we are in the United States

of America and the English-speaking world. That's interesting. Now, I'm curious. I first want to ask, before we get into the house, by the way, Jack has talked nonstop about your house. I think since I visited a man's house. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

And I just start talking about this house. So we'll get to that in a second. Why not show your face? Good. So we have a couple of videos back in the day. Probably 2018 or 19 was the last time I was on the camera. So there's a lot with my face on it. But we found a couple of things.

Format-wise, the breakdowns just do better. I do the same topic standing in front of a wall in my own house. Not going to do as well as when I put Robert Downey Jr.'s face on the thumbnail. So that was the first decision. And the second is that recently actually, Ben, who was here with us today, has been doing the videos for us. And I realized that we had a very personality-driven channel when I was part of it.

And I didn't want to have to be attached to every single thing that was being done. So I've transitioned to Ben and hopefully we'll be able to transition to other writers for the content and not have to be involved every day with all the video stuff that we're doing. So that's been a conscious decision

that we've made as time has gone on. Yeah. Don't you feel like by doing that, though, you're missing out on growing your own personal brand? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. I don't really want a personal brand these days.

I actually feel the benefits of fame is something that we were talking about. I think we're oversold in my imagination than in my experience. And I've much preferred being behind the scenes, helping people to grow within the business rather than having to be the face of everything that is said and being relied upon in that way. And it's nice because you get cool interactions with Jack at VidSummit, where people recognize you and you can't discount that. but mostly I feel like it puts a target on your back these days where people could come at you for cancellation or any sort of thing and I just I don't no longer feel

interested in the fame side of things. Got it. Yeah. Well, let's talk about your house. I'm really curious about what's going on with the house. Let's talk about. It's nuts. First of all, I pulled up the place is a mansion.

Yeah. Like I remember Graham and I, we went to Logan Paul's house. I like your house way more than Logan Paul's house. It's not my house to be clear. I rent. Right, right, right, right. Right. Yeah.

But it is amazing at a crazy. Crazy price for some pretty crazy reasons. Yeah. Go ahead and explain this. He told me that you would have feelings and I'm excited to chat about it. So we, for the longest time, I slept on floors. I live in tiny apartments. We had nothing nice. And then this apartment is, it's a home that I could not afford to buy if I wanted to buy it.

It's too expensive. But the amount of money that we have made has made it so that I felt like I could. And the reasons that I wanted specifically because it's got five bedrooms, which meant that my entire family was able to come for three weeks extended and not be on top of each other, which for me is one of the most valuable things that I can do as I get older is try to spend time with my mom and dad and sister and not crow to hate one another in three days of like super close quarters living. So that's been a big reason. And then we wanted to get out of downtown Santa Monica, which is sort of fallen apart, unfortunately. I don't know if you've been in the area

these days. Often. I saw you. Yeah, I'm leaving California. And a lot of what you spoke to, and a lot of people have spoken to is like I experienced that we were in the very center of 3rd Street and it just was not the area that we wanted to be in. Were you in one of those apartments? Yeah, the Mayfair. Oh yeah, I can reveal this now. We were right on 3rd Street.

Yes. So that area. It's funny because I would always walk by and see those places up down. I'm like, what is it like to live there? But I envy that because I'm like, I can't believe you could literally just take an elevator down

and you're right there. It was like walking distance to the beach. The coolest when we moved in. It was so awesome. How much was rent? Rent there was when we moved in, it was for a single bedroom like $3,000. And for a two bedrooms, like $4,300 or something like that. Prices actually went down over COVID, but they didn't reflect that for us because we had contracts.

But yeah, it was amazing when we got there. You're right next to everything. All the stores, all the shopping, people coming in town all the time. It's got the bungalow, if you like to go out. And then with time, they, I think there was an ordinance that kicked the homeless out of Venice. And so they migrated a lot of them towards the downtown area. Santa Monica. And I mean, I've got stories.

We don't need to go over them. But it became much more uncomfortable to just walk around your front yard. And walking the dogs became not something that I looked forward to and wanted to do in the same way. And taking a stroll in that area was not something that was, it used to be the best part of my day. And then there was just an added stress that I didn't want to deal with. So we moved up to Malibu as well for that reason.

And I set a price that I thought I was going to pay. And then I found this house. and that was like 1.3 to 1.5 times more than I had planned on. So there's a different financial philosophy. How much we're talking? How much is rent? I knew we were going to ask me. I normally don't talk about this stuff, but I'm on the podcast.

Thank you. Yes. So it's $20,000 a month is the rent. And it's Malibu. It's a large place. Yeah. It's massive. It's beautiful.

It's got a pool. And it is the type of place that I don't know I'll be able to live forever, but we'll be happy to have lived in for the year. that I did. But first, I'd like to thank our sponsor, Hewle. Man, I could really use some human fuel right now. Graham, help. Alex turned into a zombie. No, no, no. Not humans for fuel.

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And I remember back when I went to your house, you were explaining to me some funny rules that your landlord had implemented on you guys. Yes. And like weird restrictions that they gave you? Yes. So they're, first off, I really actually like them a lot. The way that the house works is they live in the Casita, basically, in a separate area in the back. But it's large enough of a place that they're pretty separate. But this house is their pride and joy.

It's the thing that they love. It's got all of their furniture, which is the reason that I picked it because it's, I didn't have to bring anything because I didn't have anything. But they've got some, like a 1950 motorcycle antique that's in there. It's worth $100,000. dollars that's just like please don't touch me and I trust me I don't want to but they have all of their furniture they have this workout equipment from the 70s that that is they don't want to throw out so it's just filling up space so we're trying to like find a room to put a set in but it's just carved out with these crappy old stairmasters that we have to like put behind

curtains on all this kind of stuff so there are some weird rules I'm not allowed to hang anything in the house they ask this isn't that weird but she's allergic cats no cats we've got dogs So they're not, they're, it's, it is their pride and joy. And so they're very particular about like, they don't want us to make it our own. They want us to be people. Why are they renting it? Is it financial? It must be.

It has to be. You know, it is, I asked them this question. I said, why do you do it? She said, I like money. And I was, okay. But they're old. So, yes. And this is, and maybe they don't view it that way.

But from my perspective, I was like, you love this thing so much. And they do have enough money. Like, I don't get it. to me, I would want to enjoy the place that I, they built it themselves over many, many years. I don't get it. But I'm happy for it because when there's a problem, they're on it. Lickety split. They're over the next second because they care so much.

And they rented it to me, which. But if they like, I'm very happy. They're renting to you for $20,000. Yeah. But realistically, what's the market rent on that place? Six million something probably. Oh, market. Oh, no.

Oh, like for sale. Sorry, the market rent. I would suppose if they if they comparatively I would guess 30k is what it's actually it could go for if they weren't so stringent about the type of person that's in there and they they like us because it's me and my brother they're like you guys are going to throw parties no I don't I don't drink I don't do any of that kind of stuff I'm not going to have like a big rager at the house at this point we're both getting old and just we hang out with their dogs we sit by the pool there's nothing crazy going on so they are looking for a particular I think type of renter which is why they're happy to do it at a discount and maybe they just don't know that it could go. I don't even want to say this because I'm like, Jack, it showed me your house online. I looked it up. I honestly thought about 20 to 25. You think so? Realistically, yeah. I think it's tough to get an actual feel of the house though without seeing it in person. Like online does not do it justice. The backyard is, it just goes on. Yeah. It keeps going. It's, it's nice. When I was looking at comps, because you know more about the

market than I do, but I for a moment in time became aware of like what my options were. And there was nothing like this in that area. The ones, that were smaller than this, we're selling for 25. Yeah. I wasn't even looking at ones that were more expensive. Yeah, the issue is that like you're renting it with their furniture. Yes. So you take the tenant pool, you cut that down 75%.

Exactly. No hanging things. Cut it down further. You got to keep treadmills in there, cut it down further. So it's like how many people are going to rent this place? Very few. True. It's going to take a long time for them to rent.

Exactly. And that's why it's the right fit for us. So because they are so particular about it and most of the things we don't mind, it makes it a good fit for us. Yeah. Yeah. that's interesting any thought of leaving moving somewhere yeah so we i mean we talk about it Puerto Rico you can do that so we've discussed this and this is perhaps the interesting

question about like philosophy of money which which ben and i often discuss and maybe you have a different take um it California's really expensive and not only the house but you know this the taxes and all of that kind of stuff the amount that i spay on a daily basis to be in california compared to Nevada is probably over $1,000 a day, just for the privilege of a few hours of sunlight. And should I do that? I come to the conclusion that, yes, I should because one, right now I can afford it. And it just makes me marginally happier than being in Puerto Rico. That's why I come to the conclusion.

The idea of stacking up more money while nice seems less valuable to me than sunshine in the afternoon. and I don't know if that's, I don't think that's something that I'm going to regret later in life, but I don't actually know what I would do if I had, say, at the end of the year and I saved a bunch of them, say I had another $250,000 or $500,000. There's nothing that I can conceive of that I could use that money for

that would add to my life in a meaningful way. That's it. You need some good dividend stocks. Yeah, and so what is your, so do you just get joy out of seeing the pile grow? Like, why have more? And is there an enough number for you where it's like, you know what? I'm going to splurge. I'll just screw it at this point.

I am to a certain extent. No, I don't look at the whole number. I look at like whatever, whatever the number is. So let's say it's, you know, a hundred, a hundred bucks. I'm like, okay, now I could spend $3 of that. Yeah. So I just spend $3. So whatever that number is, you know, 3% of it.

So right now I could, you know, I'm really living off like, imagine I make like $100,000. I keep it about that. Yeah. So whatever I, I, earn more is just no increase at 3%. Got it. And so is that what, why not spend more, is it because you don't think it would make you happy

or because you would stress about not saving as much? Both. I wouldn't be any happier, but also I would stress over, it's unsustainable. Like I know if I spent more, if something were to happen, I can't keep that up. So I'm not going to even try. I'm going to stay within my means. Got it. Yeah. But there's a 3% of 4% of 5% of 6%.

why not spend like you have or making 250k year? Because I know that you're making seven plus, not seven plus figures, seven figures solidly, right? Yeah, yeah. But any more than 3%, it's not guaranteed to last through inflation or a downturn that could last however long.

But aren't you not spending 3%? It's less. I don't know what it is. But mentally it's about plus or minus 3%. It's like one. It's like it's less than 1%. We could see a downturn. The market's down.

Markets down, okay? Bitcoin's down 50%. I guess here's my question is it seems like the implicit idea is that you want to have enough money to survive forever should you never be able to work again. But the impression that I get from you is that you are smart.

You are smart, hardworking, but I don't want to have to do that. That's the thing. But you do have to give in your own mentality. To a certain extent, I think it's worthwhile to be able to, you know, when the sun is shining, you make hay. And an opportunity like this, I don't think necessarily is guaranteed to stay around for forever. So at this time, I think it makes sense to double down when things are working. And at some points, things are going to change.

Yeah. So I'd rather look back at this and be like, all right, you know, I've done everything I could on this and things could change. Got it. Is there a age or an amount that you would have to be like the sun has been shining for 12 years. I don't have to make hay anymore or? No, no. I think it's slowly just, you know, over time, I think, you know, as I get older, I think just the more you want to kind of just take it easy, a little bit more each and every year, I think it'll be a gradual thing.

I don't think it's going to be one day. I'm like, all right, I'm done. I think, you know, just maybe an hour or less a week every now and then and then two hours a week. Yeah, a little bit less. Yeah. And I don't think one is right and wrong. I guess my philosophy, which we'll see how it plays out is, I'm not.

I want to enjoy the benefits of retirement while I'm young. And if I am forced to work and to make hay, I believe that I will be able to do that. And I know this is the other thing that we kind of talked about is like, the worst case scenario for me is living on a friend's couch because I have done a good job of making friends and having people that care about me. So I don't believe that I will ever be in real deprivation. I might be in like socially ostracized.

You're a big loser. You're 45 years old. Then you can't pay for yourself. I think that's worst case scenario. But yeah, it's tough for me to conceive of true calamity, barring the total collapse of the United States of America, in which case I'm screwed anyway. Like I don't know how to work a gun and I can't make my own food. So I'm in trouble. Jack told me that you are thought would be with that amount of money, why not?

Purchase a smaller home, own it, build equity, those sorts of things, right? Uh, yeah, preferably not in Malibu. Yes. Yeah. What is your opinion on Malibu? Uh, I, I think if you live in Malibu, you may as well live in Ventura for half the price. I mean, what's the difference? Very little.

You're driving an extra 35 minutes north, uh, and everything's half off. Yeah. So I would rather do that. I'm, or move out of state entirely because your voice doesn't, or your, your, your image doesn't need to be attached to this channel. So why, why live there? Yes. So, uh, I,

I guess it's a few reasons. When I think of the things that matter to me in life, and I've tried to take stock and I've lived in a lot of different places, weather comes up very, very high on the list. And so Southern California, as compared to here, for instance, in Vegas, where it's like low taxes, that's why we stay in California. Instead of Ventura, I've got a girlfriend,

Ben's got a girlfriend, and it was just, do you want to live 20, 30 minutes away from your girlfriend, or do you want to live an hour away? And so that was a decision. But certainly in the future, I could see myself in Ventura. But yeah, there are smarter decisions that I could have made. I think the underlying philosophy, though, with regard to why I chose to spend probably more than you would have been comfortable with is that I do. Jack, Jack has told me that you feel that the YouTube train could run out.

And I totally agree. Watching my ad revenue go from 90. Oh, wow. Say it. You're there? It's okay. It's a safe place. 90 to 30 from December to January.

January and that's of course. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and of course, we got salaries and I'm splitting with the team and with Ben of course. Watching that is like, yeah, this can end. But I'm under the impression. This has always been true for me that I tend to perform better one when I have a financial necessity. Like when the pressure is off, I take my foot off the gas. And that's not something I mind doing, but I feel like I can be on the hook to build, grow in the future. If It's necessary financially. But when it's not, I'm happy to like chill, coast, enjoy. Got it.

Okay. But first, we want to thank our sponsor, Morning Brew. Man, I'm so tired. I could definitely use some Morning Brew right now. Me too, Alex. There is nothing I love more than learning and keeping up to date with the latest trends first thing in the morning. From a cup of coffee? No, Alex.

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to keep up with today's demand. And that's just one of many things. fascinating and entertaining stories Morning Brew's YouTube channel has to offer. So go subscribe to Morning Brew's YouTube channel if you're interested in business, finance, or tech. We have links down below in the description. Thank you so much Morning Brew. And back to the podcast. Well, before we go into my thoughts on that, how do you get started on this channel? What made you get into charisma on command?

Yes. So I was a super, super shy kid. So Ben, my co-founder, I keep pointing to him. He's hiding here in the corner. He was my best friend in high school, a little bit more outgoing than me. but I was especially shy, and he was my closest friend that often translated for me to girls that I might like or that sort of stuff. So when I separated from him in college, especially was when I had to start learning it to be more outgoing, confident, charismatic, because it was not something that came naturally to me.

And so through reading books and I got a chance to study abroad and kind of reinvent myself and sort of build the fundamentals of relating to people from the ground up, through that process I learned a lot about how to do it came back, started talking to friends they were super into it and then I think I started writing on a blog just like here's what I'm learning eventually that became classes that we taught

eventually that became YouTube videos and we saw traction very very quickly with everything that it was that we were teaching it was one of the most quickly not widespread but the people that were exposed to it were very quickly very interested which is why it was something that we stuck with

when we came time to, you know, try to figure how to start a business and not live a life of consulting or investment banking in Ben's case. So it was mainly just talking about, like, how to be more charismatic and stuff like that. At the beginning, it was,

it was very much about getting dates and girls because I think we were trying to solve the problem that we felt most acutely. Kind of picked up from where a simple pickup, I think, left off because they abruptly ended, I think, right? And then there was this big, like, this big market out there. I think for a lot of people, especially when YouTube was becoming more popular and people were home,

those are the people who needed the dates watching YouTube. So, of course, they're going to watch YouTube videos on how to get dates. Yeah. And the videos, the videos by that time in my life, the dating part was not, it was still important to me, but it wasn't like the forefront of my mind. We were doing first breakdown that went viral was of Bill Clinton, and then we were doing Barack Obama. It became much more public speaking, making friends, moving up in the workplace, all the things that we found were important to people

and not just the dating stuff, which I think was over-emphasized in some of the people that I wanted to differentiate myself from when I had the YouTube channel. Got it. Yeah. But let's start with the dating for a second. I think that's interesting.

How did you begin teaching that and what strategies have worked the best in terms of boosting someone's confidence? So we started in New York, Skillshare, back in the day. Do you remember that it was an in-person platform? Did you ever use it? So it used to be basically a classroom booking platform.

And it was you would like say, I am an expert in X, Y, and Z. And I have 10 spots, and they would give you, okay, come into our location, and we will be the ticket selling platform to your class. So that was the first thing that we ever did. We had 10 seats, gave five of them away for free on a local Reddit, and then five people came through the Skillshare platform,

spent like $15 or something. So after the cost of Subway and, you know, all the food that we had to get, it was like we made $8 each. And the first class was how to, I think it was how to talk to girls in the park. And so we just kind of ran through like a model for how you might do this. Okay, here's how you work on your confidence. Here's what you can say to start the conversation. Here's the things that are important when you're setting up a date and here's how you make it all happen.

At the end of it, guys were hanging around in a lot of class. They were like, so when can we do this? We're like, oh, I hadn't thought about that. So then we started taking people out and we would go out. And very much it was, I guess, the pickup model at that time was like go talk to girls. and we were definitely trying to not be like most of what we saw out there, but this was the business model. So we took a handful of guys out to the park.

If we saw a pretty girl, we would go up, talk to her. If it went well, fantastic, if not, totally cool, and teach them to do the same. So that was what started it. And then from there, eventually that became one-on-one coaching with the guys that were most interested. Once that got booked up, the question was, how do we scale this? And the answer was, let's make a course of what we're doing.

By that point, we'd realized that the people that were most interested in dating and exclusively interested in dating were not the people that we wanted to work with. Why is that? Without judgment or trying to shame, it was like when I went to the friend of mine, I was like, hey, man, I'm going to teach you how to date girls. He might be interested in that, but that was a reputation that he didn't want to associate himself with. Understandably, in more mainstream society, that pickup artists. stuff was like icky and gross and anything adjacent to it nobody wanted to be related to. So when we talked to the guys that we most wanted to be working with, they didn't want that to be the primary focus.

So we realized that in order to attract the type of person that we wanted and still talk about dating, we were going to have to add all of these other pieces that were very important in as well. And that was why we focused on charisma broadly rather than dating specifically. It was just because we wanted to surround ourselves with a different type of person that was naturally attracted to pure dating. So that makes sense? Yeah, it does.

Yeah. So where does someone start? If they're not confident at all, if they have a fear of going out, talking to people, making friends, how do you begin people on that journey? The first, I mean, so we have our course broadly, and it's, what I try to do is give them the easiest, fastest thing that they can implement right off the bat. And so day one in our course is be better than good. So in every conversation, almost everyone, somebody's going to ask you, hey, man,

how's it going? And most people be like, not bad or fine or I'm doing good. The easiest way to set an interaction up to do well is to find a way to be better than that. So, hey, man, I'm doing awesome. Or I'm exceptional. I'm great. Like, it's been an awesome day. When you inject a little bit of energy into the beginning of the conversation, the other person tends to give back some. And then it's much easier to make conversation. So we, when we're starting, we start at the beginning, which is like, what do you say at the beginning of a conversation that is very easy, very small? That evolves into longer later in our courses and what we're teaching. It might be about storytelling and more complex ideas of how do you hook someone in a story

and when should you digress and tell a funniest side versus when should you just get to the punchline. But it's those small things that we try to do first when we're talking to someone. And these days it's almost all done through the course. I'm mostly in behind the scenes doing not charisma stuff. Honestly, I'm doing more business stuff these days. Yeah. Okay. And how long did it take for you to go from someone who is a little bit insecure?

and shy maybe to someone who was pretty pretty dang good at like being confident better than good yeah better than pretty dang good okay yeah yeah sure fantastic exactly exactly exactly sure i was listening pretty dang good isn't that better than good no i appreciate that he's doing all right i just like that you think i got better than than pretty dang good no so it took uh for me months it took a long time uh and that's because I was floundering. In fact, I made a lot of bad decisions because when you are not good at anything, any advice seems plausible. So, for instance, one of the pieces of advice that someone gave me was when you're at a bar and a girl asks you to hold her drink, that's like a beta move. Never do that. She's trying to get you do a favor and you can't do it that way. So I was like,

okay, I don't know any better. So when people ask me to hold drinks, I would be like, can't do that, no. And I would try to be some cool, tough badass until one day a friend of mine basically chewed me out and told me that I was being an asshole. And it was like those sorts of mistakes that I was making because I had no way to filter the good advice from the bad advice via my own life experience. So it took a longer time for me to go, oh, that's crappy advice.

And I probably didn't need to go down that path and define, oh, that stuff is actually good. So months, at least, if not years for me to get it. That's interesting. So you could take it from someone who you'd listen to and you'd put all of their advice into action. Oh, yeah. I didn't know any better.

You just believe it. I didn't know any better. And then you had to learn through your own experience. That's hilarious. You know, I'm not the funny thing. I watched a guy who I thought had great eye contact, and I determined it was because he had big eyes, which was wrong. But what I learned is when I talked to people, you should do this.

And for like a week, I was running around like, that's a great point. Swear to God. And I think it was Ben who one day I was at the gym. He's like, or not the gym. We were out at a club. And he goes, dude, what the fuck you look in? I was like, I'm making eye contact. No way.

That's where you guys, stop doing this. that it had probably been a week of me practicing that is so funny and it was so and i think it had to be there is understandably sort of a social stigma that comes from having to learn this stuff as consciously as i did you're supposed to just get it but for whatever reason i didn't and i think a lot of people didn't um not like i'm aspy or asperger's or autistic or anything on the spectrum i don't think i just whatever influences i had in my life didn't leave me to figuring this stuff out so i had to learn in a very analytical way, which is the way that my brain tends to work. That's most people now.

I feel like the fact that we're spending so much time online, you get in contact with somebody else, you're like, I forgot what to do. Even with me, if I'm working for like a few weeks and I don't really do anything, I get out and I'm so uptight. I'm like, I forgot how to act. Like, what do I do with my hands? Yeah. Am I supposed to look for too long?

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How long is too long? You start getting in your head about that. How about coming out of the pandemic? I mean, I felt that to the extreme. Not interacting with people and then going in and trying to have a conversation with the person who's serving you food was just I didn't know what to do. It felt so strange because it had been so long away from that world. And I think if you grew up like that for whatever reason, I was playing Starcraft Broodwart,

like that can be your life if you don't intervene and do something about it, which is hopefully where our channel comes in. That's interesting. Yeah, I felt like it does take practice. And it is something that, well, I guess not for everybody. But for me, like the more you socialize, the better you get at it. Yeah. I mean, by the end of the summit, you're like, you're in the flow, right? You feel good. I saw you at the end. I came and I had to break through eight people to say, hi to you.

It's Graham, Stephan, he's over here. Hi, Graham, please see me. Yeah, that was crazy. I had two people following me. Yeah. Yeah, one guy was giving me a stock tip, and I forget the, I forget the stock. He was telling me about this pharmaceutical company, but I think he was a part of it. So he wanted me to make a video on this company. Oh, I remember that guy. Yeah, yeah. He wanted me to talk about it, like, in a video. I'm like, I'm not going to. I'm not going to talk about a pharmaceutical company in the video, but yeah, he followed me for like 10 minutes. Yeah. To die.

I wish I knew this. Imagine if the thing is up like a thousand percent now. Should have taken that? I should have and I should have taken it. So you said after meeting me, you had a great first impression. What about after meeting Graham? Oh, oh yeah. So how about after meeting me and give both of us things that we could improve on?

Okay. How was that? Yeah, yeah, I'll have to, I did not come prepared. I will say outside you actually made a funny impression. So before we got in, we were, it's freaking cold in Vegas right now. We're standing outside of your house trying to knock in. And we hear on the doorknob things with the rings speak to us. Vacate the premises.

The cops are being called. What an impression. I love it. Honestly, and if there's a principle behind that, it is, it's treat people as friends immediately. Oh, yeah. As opposed to, I've got to be formal or professional. I think that's a very good initial instinct. Maybe open the door a little bit sooner?

Because it was cold You know the funny thing is I was trying to get the speaker to work And my mic was turned off He was committed to the joke He's like I cannot let them Alex and I were sitting here We're looking at you guys trying to come in

I thought you'd get the code right Dude I forgot what he is Yeah I forgot it Yeah And I was trying to get the speaker to work For like 10 seconds Yeah Because they're fumbling outside

And I mean that was it Literally I shook your hand there And then we've moved in And then we've moved in And I'll sit in We can splice something again but that was that was the moment of that was the strongest emotional feeling that was out of the ordinary from normal interactions that popped in my head was like oh good for him like he's

no seriously the there it's and i can fall out of this i can be i'm a philosophy major i'm if you ask me a question i'm going to answer it as deeply and literally as i can but i think the instinct to found can i say that we'll bleep it out yeah yeah is is a good one is a really really good one and it's uh i need to do a better job of it if i was if i was back in my career as well i probably You have to do a little less. I have this thing. Joking around? I love scaring people.

You do? How many times have I scared Alex? It's so much fun. And you scared me. In the last week he scared me probably like five times. I'm joking. And right before this podcast, like as we were driving back from the protein and veggies wherever we ate, I called Graham.

I'm like, yo, we're heading over right now. He's like, I thought you said eight. And I was like, oh my gosh. Alex, I'm like, Alex, he said eight, right? And Alex is like, yeah, no, we got to finish. We got to be, hurry, go! I called him on his bluff, though. Anyway, I know.

You're used to it. Yeah, I'm used to it. Yeah, everybody's got the prankster friend that is just like, yeah. I would come home, he got me a couple times. There was one where I came home to my Facebook with a message written to the girl that I had a crush on saying, hey, I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to let you know that I really like you and I have a big crush on you and I want to talk to you. And I was like mortified. I freaked out, started going, what have you done? Because he's a prankster.

and this is exactly the thing that he would do. And I realized they touched the screen. It was a totally photoshopped image. Wow. That's so good. He is, he was, he's the type of person to put hours of work into a 15 second prank. And, uh, yes. And it was good because if he had done the first thing and actually that would have just

pissed me off and not been a good thing. But the fact that he scared me with it without doing it was I, clever. That's good. Yeah. He got me, he got me hard and made me freak out. That's a great prank. So how was Jack's score? What could Jack improve on? So Jack and I have hung out now for a couple hours.

No, Jack is, Jack's got it, man. I think some people, it comes easily, I know, it comes easily for some people. I actually think, have you worked at all to try to be more charismatic? I have not. Yeah, you're natural, honestly. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you.

But that's because you're not Jack's date. Yeah. So I think we put you, if you were a date, it would, you know, maybe things would be a little different. Oh, yeah. Is that the... I might honestly just be good around dudes. I think that's probably the case. You're telling me you're not good with women?

Is this like a running gag that you guys have? I like to think that I'm good with them, but my track record says otherwise. Interesting. Suspect, suspect, but I'll buy it. No, so a lot of... Okay, so this is realistically, if I hang out with the girl, there will be two outcomes.

Okay, one outcome is I end up not really being super into the girl. And then for some reason for the next couple months, months. She's just super interested and I just try to distance myself. And then the other outcome is I just don't get a text back afterwards. But I do kind of after a date. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh, we could work on that. Really. If this is an actual thing that's happening and not something. It's an actual thing. No, no. No, yeah, we can air it. I'm cool with airing. Like, no, this is fake. Yeah. I don't know. 100%. It's not super troubling to me though. Like, I'm not super invested in any of these dates. What the heck? What is going on here?

Multiple times. And you'll feel like it's gone well. One, I felt like it went well. Okay. And then the other ones I kind of know. I'm like, you know, I either A should have made a move or B, like I should have done something else differently. And I oftentimes, like, I'll feel kind of like detached from the conversation if I'm like with a date. And I think that's something I can work on for sure.

Hmm. We need like a hidden camera. We need a series. You got to film a dating show. That's genius. Yeah. A few times because Jack runs these scenarios by me and I'm like, oh, it's because of this or it's because of this. There's been a few times, though, then I'm like, yeah, no.

The only thing I could think of with one was a girl that he met, and then she deactivated her account online. Yeah. She totally shut down social media because of you? No, yeah. It was such a bad experience. I think she's probably seeing somebody else or went back with an ex. You know, in Vegas, seeing someone else, because I lived here for four years, it not as uncommon as you, like, there's some weirdness going on in Vegas. There's a lot of double dealing.

I know girls that, like, a girl that I dated, the guy that she thought she was dating prior to me, I told her that he was in the scene. I told her that he was in the CIA. And what he really had was a wife. No. I swear to God, man. Swear to God. What? And he would take these, I've got to get on call.

And I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. He told her that he was in the CIA who had to take these, these like important trips and couldn't tell her about these dealings. Yeah. And it was, I think it went on for a handful of months, like a small number of months. And then I think the woman may have reached out to her if I'm remembering the story correctly. But I've heard a ton of those stories in veils. That's crazy.

Not the highest integrity dating town. But not, is that a surprise? Yeah. Like, could be some boyfriends out there. And I know that there was on the podcast. There was the issue where. Yeah, I explained to him the thing with the girl in the way. Yeah, that was tough.

Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. But anyways. We were all so excited by the end of the podcast. Yeah. All of us, man. Yeah, we were pumped. True love.

just cucked. Yeah. For those that don't know, we basically brought on a date for me on the podcast. This was a long time ago. It was my first time ever meeting this girl on the podcast.

And then after the podcast, I asked her on a date and then she said she had a boyfriend. And then like an episode or two later, we brought on her boyfriend and confronted him. Jack, what was the name of that?

Confronting Jack's girlfriend's boyfriend. Yeah. Was the name of the podcast. That was the olden days. I miss those days. Yeah, yeah, me too. Fun time.

You're like whatever it takes. Yeah, whatever it takes. Don't click out now, though. Click out at the end of the video to watch it. That was one of our most viewed videos, though, in the first 24 hours. Yeah, it was confronting. I think it was confronting my girlfriend's boyfriend. Was it my or Jack?

I don't know. I want to see the face that you chose for the thumbnail. I think it was the first time we used the famous, like the long hair. Just weeping, sad. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So, okay.

So do you have any advice for Jack? Could you, could we walk through? some scenarios? Yes. Well, is there a particular scenario you can run me through that surprised you? I can try to actually. Like a scenario that happened between me and a girl. A surprising not callback or surprising where you thought that it, where you went on a date and. I want to say, none of them were that surprising.

Just being completely honest. So you know, you know at some point in the interaction. Yeah. Amazon presents. Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Haboniero?

More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Yeah, at some point in the interaction, like interaction, something probably definitely went wrong. But nothing that serious, at least in my opinion. Yeah. So I don't know. And I also think, like, to a lot of girls that I'm going on dates with, I may be a little intimidating. Interesting.

Yeah. I mean, are they familiar with you from prior to the. No, I don't bring up like the YouTube thing or any of that stuff. But yeah, like going to my place and seeing like maybe a house and like, you know what I mean? Like, I own this house. I don't even tell them that. They, they usually ask. me. Like I try to leave some of those details out, which I think, like, if I were flaunting,

yeah, I have the house, I got a car, I got a Miata, you know what I mean? Got a Miata. Yeah, I got a sports car. Yeah. I feel like you live in a pocket universe where you are not crushing it. I'm blown away by this, but we should definitely talk more. I'm okay with it, though. Like, it's really not something that troubles me that often, nor is it something

where like, I'm like lying about, I'm like, oh, I just wish I had a girlfriend. Like, that doesn't really ever happen. Yeah. It's funny, though, when we talk about this, I check the retention rates. of every video. And every single time we talk about Jack's dating, the retention just goes up. Every single time.

Why is he struggling so much? Yes. I can tell you. I couldn't tell you. We can make an entire episode of this. I'll give you the three broad dating things that we talk about. And we have people self-diagnosed, which of these is not going well for you.

So there's the first thing is basic interest. So this is like you're talking to her own. She says, I got to go to the bathroom. That is a lack of basic interest. She doesn't even want to speak to you. Really? Conversate. Well, if that ever should happen, like,

in an interaction, not that she would take a pee and then come back, but that she would excuse herself and never be seen or heard from again. Oh. So are you in interaction, is she engaged in conversation, answering with more than one word answers, following up with questions, reciprocating interest to you? That's the basic thing. And that's not sexual at all. That's like person to person.

Sure. So is she interested. The second thing is, are you communicating that you actually have standards, meaning a lot of guys, the standard that they implicitly have for women is, are you willing? Like, do you like me? Because I'm in if that's the case. And I think this is what happens when you see men putting women on pedestals.

And a woman might say, you know, he'll ask her, well, what do you do for work? And she'll say, I'm an accountant. He'll go, an accountant, that's so amazing. That's so cool. And he doesn't give a crap about accounting. But whatever she were to say, it's amazing. And people pick up on that and sense that you lack any sort of standard and are only interested in them for their looks. And that's a turnoff.

And then the third piece is, are you building? sexual tension. And that starts with, like, lasting eye contact. The second thing you might do is rather than sitting across a booth from somebody, you can sit on the same side of the table or at the bar so that when you're joking with them, you can touch them on the shoulder or laugh by touching their hand or high five. Like, you wouldn't want to sit like we are right now on a date because it's going to be much tougher to establish any sort of comfort with physical contact.

And then what happens is at the end of dates, a lot of people who don't do that piece, you know, you're walking the girl to her doorstep, you haven't touched all night, and it's like, how do I bridge this gap between you and me? Because we're not even comfortable holding hands at this point. And I got it close to my kid. Wow. So those are the things, and I would ask anyone out there self-diagnose, which is the area that is lacking? And if it's any of those areas, there's prescriptions that you can give to start to not falter so much in those areas.

That's some really good advice. Thanks, man. And it's kind of stuff that I feel like I intuitively just know. Yeah. You know what I mean? Natural, like I said. Well, I don't like just reinforce it to myself as often as I probably should. Sure.

So it makes sense. And if I look back on my dates, I can kind of understand why. Like I mentioned. Where do you think of those three? Just one ring true? Every date is a different experience, man. It really is. So for example, one, yeah, like we didn't have any contact until the end of the date.

Everything beforehand seemed to go well, though. another one I honestly kind of rejected the girl throughout the date which was kind of just like my bad yeah on that I don't know I was just feeling weird that day I guess another one what what other dates have I been on you I didn't text a girl all two of them yeah that's just that's it so I don't know I feel like I can diagnose for the most part like what's going wrong and I also I don't think I necessarily try very hard on the dates like I kind of just go and whatever happens happens so I suppose I could also work on that. Got it.

There you go. You know the answers. We'll see. We'll see. Now, I'm curious, what about your business? Because you mentioned that ad rates have declined. Yeah. How was your business broken up now?

Well, good news is that our business is not dependent on ad rates. It's very, very heavily tilted towards the core sales that we have. So those have dipped, but not nearly to the same amount that ad rates have gone down. Core sales more closely track views that we have. And the other thing is that as we build a back. back catalog, a lot of the people who join our course are not new to the channel. They've been watching the channel for two, three years. So whether or not we have a good month this month, there's still somebody who two years ago

tuned in and is like, oh, this is my day to buy. So we've seen the core sales have for us not, have been close to solid record highs for, you know, it's continued to grow. So that's another reason is that even though some of the indicators on the business are down, the business itself is actually doing quite well. Sure. Could you provide some numbers? Oh, we know, we want to be. For those that are curious. Ben, you tell me, can I provide some numbers?

Yes, say yes. Ivan's going over. I've got two thumbs up. Two thumbs up. I'm such a private person. You say yes. That's a yes to me. How about this? Do you want me to talk about it and you can you can make up your mind if you want us to trim it? No, I can give you rough numbers. Because honestly, I don't even know the true numbers. We should probably do that.

We, I think last year made of revenue somewhere in the three to four million dollars. range of Rev. And then that is, we have pretty solid profit margins, but we do have people that work for us. We have costs associated with some of the things that we do. And then I get of the profit, I get roughly 46%. Co-founder Ben gets roughly the same amount. And then we have a CMO who takes, would he like to be named? His name is Ivan. He gets 7%. And we're hoping to grow that into 10% for him as he takes on more responsibility. I kind of want like the Dana White. That's what we're looking for. I'm for Tita brother.

I started the thing and then I want to have a frontman that is not me more heavily involved with the day to day. How many people are involved in this? So it's a lot. There are several people that have like part-time things, but the core team is depending on the time is roughly 10 people. And then we also have these language channels, which if you multiply that out, there's 30 people within their teams because they each have, you know, one, the Russian guy has like 10 people that. work with him. So there's quite a few. But they're not all, Ivan is, are you chitch chatting over here?

Do you? 32 total. I'm here. Yeah. Got it. But they're not, they're not all like directly. The reason that I don't feel is nervous and I would, if I had 32 employees that were like every month they're on a salary, the vast majority of those people are on a profit share,

which is when the profit, like I can't owe more money than I'm making because we're sharing in the profit together, which makes me feel. much easier and I wouldn't want to coast if I had an operation that had super high overhead that would make me that would make me nervous for sure walk us through the process of making a video how involved are you like what do you it's nothing nothing it's been a year since I've been involved with the videos yeah yeah that's crazy to me yeah see yeah all of this so far I'm like that's good that's what impresses me yeah so wow that yeah well good news bad news I had I turned it over to my co-founder, Ben.

And so he makes, he's very involved. But we've been able to get more and more help as time has gone on. So when it started, it was, I would decide on a person or idea that I was interested in, say, it was Donald Trump at the time. And those were the fun ones

because I did not understand Donald Trump. I was like, why is this guy popular? And so it was fun to watch the videos and sort of figure it out. I watched the videos, and I'm keying in for the moments when the audience or I have an emotional reaction to this person.

Like, I like this person, I dislike this person. And then when I find those moments, I'm reverse engineering what they're doing that is creating that. And I bundle those all together, throw them in an outline, and then write a script off the back of that. Very quickly in the process, because I started also editing the videos, we outsourced to an editor who would then be in charge of getting B-roll. And now we have that initial process is done in tandem with a sort of a junior writer that we are training right now. I'm not training. Ben is training right now to help us with that whole video process.

But our goal by the end of the year, our number one goal for the business is not related to revenue. It is to have our junior writer level up to writer, and have us receive a video that we did not have input in that is up to our standards. And we are ready to put it on the channel. If we can do that by the end of 2022, I will be thrilled. And I know Ben will even be more thrilled than I am because he's making the videos. How difficult was that to turn over to somebody else? Because you're doing this channel in the beginning. I mean, this is yours.

Did you find that it did better with you behind it? You kind of like going through everything, putting your own touch on things? Yeah, there was a there was I think in investing in like when Ben came in. He had never done it before. And so if you looked at our best months, it was, oh, that might have been off our best month. But I actually think our best month ever, I think was when Ben and I were splitting videos or he was making some of them. So it was easy to turn over to Ben in a way because he had been with me through since I'm 13, 14, 14 years old.

Like, he's my best friend forever. And so he saw the whole process. He was a quick study relative to somebody totally fresh. There was that emotional component of people are going to think this is me. What are they going to think? I don't actually think in that exact way that Ben does. I don't, you know, that nervousness. But I've gotten past that these days.

What I more felt was stress of being responsible every week to come up with a new video and I was ready to offload it at the end of it. I got burned out. I never thought it would happen because I would watch these creators talk about burnout. And I really felt that I had said all of the interesting things that I had to say and was just repeating myself, which I'm a fairly creative person, drove me nuts. Like, not covering new ground to me was very stultifying and boring. So now I told Jack, like, we're starting at Dungeons and Dragons show. I suck at Dungeons and Dragons. I don't know

anything about it, but it's fun to do something that I don't understand and know how to do well. That's where I get the most enjoyment. Got it, got it. Yeah. How long to take you to get burnt out? from 2015 to about three, four years for me to get burned out of a video a week, I would say. And then, Ben, it's taken about six months. Yeah, about. And I, it's, I got to do, and to his, like, I got to do a lot of the fun ones. I got to take, like, the super charismatic Marvel actors and do Robert Downey Jr. And now he's, like, who's left? And I've done most of the people we would want to do.

So it does feel like what is cool. What is interesting about what you do is some of what you cover is news related. So there's always something, right, to cover. I'm trying to make a channel that could mostly be, I've said it, it's over. Like human interaction hasn't changed tremendously since 2018. So just refer to an old video. And that is kind of how I feel of what I've said. I'm sure there's some more that could be added around the edges.

but I am not the guy, I feel like that has it anymore. I really said my piece in that domain. So I wanted to step aside and learn how to be a good boss, a good trainer, all those sorts of things, rather than being the content guy. And what about now? Do people look for like, do your people look for what's in the news and be like, all right, we got this new rising star, we got the weekend. What's cool about them?

Oh, no, that's a huge portion. Oh, my God. If you guys did Island Boys, why people hate. Viral. Why people hate or love the Island Boys. I did a video on the second channel on the Island Boys that was one of our most viewed videos in the first, like three to four days on the second channel. So the Island Boys. I've seen a photo of them.

That's all that I know about them. Yeah, I don't know anything about the Island Boys. So you got to start tonight. That's your next viral video. I want, but I want you to make this video. Oh, yeah? I promise. Please.

Please, please. If you trust me- Charlie, is it going to happen? No, there's no way. There's no way it's going to happen. What if you trust me on this one? I said, it's going to get a million views. And I could almost a guarantee it.

If you told me he was going to get 10 million views, I wouldn't do it. Why? I have enough views. I have enough money. Charlie is literally, I realize this. You are the exact opposite of Graham. You guys are so similar, but completely opposite. You are completely detached from views and money.

You are extremely attached to views of money. It's got to be the bottom line, James. Someone's got to be attached to it. Well, Jack told me, he said, and I think we have this in common, he said that Graham's the type of person who, like, only does what he wants. And what he wants to do is work-related stuff. And I'm the same way, except work-related stuff doesn't make it into my only wants-to-do category. Yeah.

But, yeah, so why not do it? Because the prize is a thing of which I already have more than can make me happy. I think part of, like, the process was, and there was a time where I would have been like, oh, fuck, a million views. Oh, jump on this. Yeah, exactly. But I'm curious, I really am curious for you. Do you still have goals?

Because what I found is like my first goal was say 100,000 and then a million. And I just watched the goalposts get moved while my satisfaction with the completion of those goals did not rise. And so I got turned off to the whole process of trying to grow past a certain point of enough, which for me was like, I can cover my rent. I'm not worried about food and I don't sweat it when we go out to eat or something like that. That's actually like the amount of money that I would, I definitely want to work to have. Yeah. But yeah, I'm curious. That's, is that ring true?

Not really. No, no. I just enjoy it. I would say there, I've, this was a good week for me. I've had a good week. Yeah, no, I would say it's sometimes like day by day. Some days I'm like, I just don't feel like doing anything. But I do it anyway because I've kept the schedule.

I don't want to break the schedule. But then other times, like this week, there's so much, like, I feel like there's so much new happening in the markets that, like, I was so excited to be able to make a video and, like, post it. And, like, I'm really proud of these videos. And I just, I just love doing it. So, yeah, I don't know, probably 80% of the time. It's just, I, that's just what I want to do. Good. I just, I really enjoy it.

And then 20% is like, that's part of the grind. Yeah. I can't miss an upload. I'm going to post something today. What can I talk about? That makes sense. I guess, do you feel like, your drive to do it these days is more joy driven or anxiety driven,

meaning you're trying to avoid the anxiety of not doing it or there's a joy of the creative process that you want to feel. I enjoy the creative process and I like having that schedule and sticking with it. I think I take a lot of personal pride in the fact that I don't miss hop loads. Yeah, man, if people, for now, but I know I'm sure at some point that'll change. Sure. Yeah. And I think I, there was a time for me where it was joy driven.

Of course there's always a balance of like, oh, I'm nervous that I don't want this thing to fall apart. But there was a discovering that was going on when I was like more learning this stuff, doing the people I was most interested in. And that phase ran its course for me. And then it became the reason that I'm doing this is because I'm anxious about losing what I've built. And at that point I was like, okay, I need to go find something that genuinely sparks my creative juice, even if I suck at it, even if it doesn't make money. because I did charisma for five years before I made a dime. And I'm willing to do Dungeons and Dragons or explore psychedelics and open a clinic for five, ten years because it's what I like to do. And then maybe there will be money at the end of that because I'll have become one of the people in the world that is most fascinated and most obsessed.

That's kind of what I've realized is that I monetized my obsession. And then the obsession died. And so trying to keep that thing going would just defeat the purpose of why I did it in the first place, which was to be free to choose how I spent my time. That's good. Yeah. I like that. See?

It's easy, man. It's not bad. Birds of a feather. Wow. Jack told me he's like, Graham is going to get you on that house. He said Graham is going to hear. He's talking about. So one thing Graham would get you on that you mentioned to me when I went and visited your house

is the fact that you said when you were making like $5,000 a month, 60 grand a year, you already hired someone to do your laundry. Oh, yeah. Well, this is, do you not have this? I actually think if you're a house, interested in making more and growing, I think you'd benefit tremendously from this. So he told me that your team is like almost nobody. You guys don't have virtual assistance. You process your own refunds. Do I, why don't you have a virtual assistant? Or what? To, to make sure that your brain

isn't going away from the valuable things that you do, that you are uniquely capable of. So like doing your own laundry, processing refunds, that's time where your brain, what I found it, I don't know if this is like you, is that it's not when I'm sitting in front of the computer. It's that like slow churn time, which can be interrupted with stupid tasks that people can do for $15 an hour. And if when you outsource that, my output got a lot better and went through the roof. And I started making a lot more. I don't know. I feel like my system works.

I mean, I think it works. And it's like if it works, why, you know, why try to fix something? So in a sense, because really my workload hasn't changed that much. It's a lot of the same stuff. I would feel like, you know, I got. Alex processing refunds. You know, the most I can think of is someone to go through my emails, but even then, it's like usually in a date, it's only maybe two things that are even worth responding to.

And those are things that I just need to respond to anyway. Sure. Yeah. So we had, I guess we had a lot more customer service things. We had editing, which I didn't want to necessarily be involved in. And your business might be different. What I found is that for us, the thing that I was uniquely good at was right. writing the videos. I was not uniquely good to responding to emails, doing laundry, preparing my own

food, any of that stuff. And so when I spent money to free up more of my time, we made a lot more money. And that worked well for me and the added benefit of I don't do laundry, make my own food. Like I'm, it's, there's something wrong with it to a degree because I've become totally dependent upon other people to function like a normal person. Like I wouldn't know where to find the detergent to do my own laundry these days. But that it has actually wound up being in, you know, helping me specialize more and do the things that are most valuable to the business

when I'm working on the business. And these days I've taken more time away from the business. Yeah. I don't know. I try to keep things simple. The only thing I would think about is hiring a, hiring someone to cook food

and bring in, like, do that like three times a week. You'll love it, man. You'll love it. Yeah. I'm going to respect Macy. this she's very like she doesn't want to do that and she's like i want to be the one to cook the food this is common i'm like well then you know but but that would free up your time like imagine if you could get out an extra video a week uh so you know what it's like it doesn't it doesn't

make that much of a difference to me so it's like yeah i mean my yeah my preference would be give her the time back and just have have a professional coming three times a week yeah but to me it's just you know if she's happier the other way i don't and that's the thing if you're if you truly deeply enjoy cooking, laundry, emails, processing refunds, anything, do it. I don't want to take anyone away from the things that they really love doing. But if they feel that they ought to or that it's a poor use of money, I have found that one ought to, it doesn't make any sense. And in terms of poor use of money, usually there's a handful of, if you were to like put the value of your time on the different tasks that you're doing, you find that there's a huge thousand X discrepancy between

some of the things. And that was helpful for us. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, agree with that. I could probably be a little bit better about a few of those things. But make sense. What else am I not going to like, Jack? Well, when we're talking about your numbers specifically, the way that you're investing or not investing, we could get into that. Sure. I don't like the not investing.

Yeah. Well, this is, I actually, this is an area where I would love to learn more because I am, I think the other areas I've thought about a lot and I like my philosophy. My investing is like, I'm ignorant. I don't know a ton about it. I never thought that I would have any money saved. And now that I do, I'm not super sure of it. So here's what I've done.

I probably have 40 to 50% of my net worth in cash. Why? Market went down. I'm ready to go. Oh, my God. You're lucky right now. You're not lucky right now. We're only down to where we were like five months ago.

So unless all of your cash is in the last five months, you've lost a ton of money. How long have you been cash for it? for as long as I've had money, which is, I mean, we started making it a couple of years ago. Oh, come on. Why? I don't know anything about it. I've never, I've never learned. Oh, yeah. So you're telling me outsourced this, outsource that. You have an outsourced you're investing. Exactly.

Yeah, that's costing you more money than I guarantee every other thing that you've outsourced. Yes. Well, you know, you might be right. I think in the terms of the income generating, I've probably stopped that. So this is an area that is important. I have outsourced some of it to Ivan, who runs the business. And the best thing I ever did was like, what's a cryptocurrency? Here's $20,000. Will you buy some cryptos for me?

And he crushed it. He crushed it. This was two and a half years ago. And how much is it now? He bought me 25 eth or something like that. And you've just held? Yeah, I don't touch anything. I don't touch anything.

He bought me an eth. He bought me a Bitcoin. He bought me a like, you know, I was like, oh, cool. And then he gave me a nano. I said, don't lose this. So I've got that. So yeah, that was a good. That was a good outsource that I did back a few years ago.

But yeah, I've got a retirement thing. I've been putting in stuff into my SEP. And other than that, I have a lot of cash on the sidelines. How much cash? Five years of savings? Well, for me, it's a $2 million? We donate, we do donate a decent amount to charity. So it could be, no, it's not a few million dollars.

It's like half a million dollars is 40, 50% of my net worth. I would exist. Okay. Where's the other? 50%. I bought the mortgage on my parents' house. Should charge rent there. I know I could get it.

No, but I've elected not to. They're great tenants. So yeah, but they paid 75% of it for the long time. I started getting money. I wanted to help with that. And then some of it is just in that retirement fund. Some of it went to the crypto that I described. There's a handful of random investments.

Some of them are psychedelic related. So like I mentioned, I'm super interested in the future psychedelics. Some of them might be confidential, so you might just have to leave them vague. Some of them are confidential, so I have to leave them a bit vague. But invested in startups and things that are related to that, and those are like a $100,000 investment. I got an opportunity. I think I can say this to invest in SpaceX early.

So bought, took a flyer on that for like 25. And it's, you add all that up. It comes out to my net worth. About a mill? About. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a lot to be spending on rent relative, but you're able to, you're writing that off, right?

So it's a business expense? Because I'm not, it's a huge house and I can't. It's like, it's got a lot of, and this is a frustration with it. It's like, I don't need this big of a master bedroom. I just wish this could be office space. Yeah. But yeah, so like roughly 20% of the house is area that I use for sets and those sorts of things, but the rest is not.

Got it. Yeah. It's expensive. It's legit expensive. Well, I would encourage you to begin trickling that. So of the $500,000, let's just say, keep $50,000 to $100,000 in cash. And then the other $400,000 trickle it in the markets probably over the next six months. Set a plan.

Over six months and not two years. You think go faster. Two years? I was thinking faster than six months. Oh, my gosh. I thought six months was slow. No, I think if he's waited five years now, he's not going to. I'm waiting for that dip.

Yeah, he's, listen, I, after five years, there's, there's, there's nothing. Nothing I could say that would make you dump it all in the market. 100%. Oh, to be clear. Actually, there is. There is? It's not because I'm stubborn. It's because I don't think, okay, my thought, which I'm totally open to amending, is you should have enough money for a couple of years in pure cash.

No. A couple of years is definitely. That's excessive. Usually, usually at six to 12 months max, that's about as much as you would need. I got. Because you got plenty to fall back on. And the chance of like the business going belly up and you not. being able to pay a rent and all this.

It's, chances are, if that even happens, a year of runway is more than enough time to find out another plan. Got it. I mean, I'm 100% totally down to do that to set a much lower threshold and then what, just put it into S&P 500. Yeah. Or you could do what might be better is just a total stock market index fund. That way you're not just concentrated in tech, but you're encompassing everything.

It would be like 2, 3,000 companies. What do you think about, and this is, what do you think about China? Alibaba, 10 cent, that kind of stuff. Risky? Yeah. Because you don't really own the company itself. So the stock is like, you're buying a stock in a holding company. So, you know, there's some, it's a big risk, big reward.

To me, it's too risky. If you were to invest 10% of it. I was just curious. Fine. Well, I guess the broader question is you mentioned a lot of like the U.S. stock market. Do I need world exposure? Do I need different currencies? You could.

You could. Yeah. So there's two. trains of thought one is that the u.s. is dominated for quite some time and it's probably going to continue the other train of thought is well international markets are catching up pretty quick and they might have more growth so you know it's it's either one could really pan out what i've done is is allocated from my index funds about 10 to 20 percent with international stocks and just an international uh index fund that's it i so you could do that i legit will probably it i will tell ivan i were you

taking notes. If you want, yeah. I mean, honestly, what I would do, if it were me, I probably,

if you want a safe approach, is like 80% in a total stock market index fund and 20% with international. Yeah. If that were my 100 grand, that's probably what I would do. You know,

it is very safe. I like it. I like safe. But if you want riskier, you could put 5, 10% in crypto, Bitcoin Ethereum. Yeah. On account of Ivan's,

uh, Then you could just leave that alone, or you could put 5 to 10% in and fun speculative company like the Alibaba, Neo, and stuff like that that might do really well or it might just go to zero. Yeah. I think the chance of those companies being de-listed is pretty small, but you never know. Yeah. It's a risk.

Dude, I'm totally game for this. And this is an area where I confess near total ignorance and disinterest. So I do need to, and you're dead right, outsource it because I'm not going to be the guy that learns this stuff and manages my own money. But the big news is that you've already learned it. That's, that's, you're done. That's it. That's it.

Yeah, there's not much to it. It really is. If you literally just said, all right, for every $100 I earn, 80 bucks goes into the total stock market, 20 goes into the international and you do that for 50 years. Yeah. You know what's so silly is that I have done this in lump sums and it speaks to just, I guess, human behavior is that I haven't set it up on an autopilot. So like I took care of this one point a while back and then just left it.

Yeah. I just needed it. Yeah. it recurringly established, which is probably just going to these platforms and saying take X-9 money every month. Yeah. Most platforms at this point have auto-invest. So you could just say, you know, every month I want 10 grand to be divvied up this way, 80-20.

That's it. You don't even think about it. Every month it'll be invested. Or every week. That's it. I got rich on this podcast, dude. I got rich on the ice coffee hour. Let's see, maybe the market drops you more.

You're like, Graham, I should have stayed in cash. You got 50%. I was waiting to deploy. I'm waiting for this. Imagine we dip more than the prices were five years ago. And then he's like, I would have just made out bank right now. I knew I was saving for a reason. So I'm not an expert on this.

But there was something when the economy or the stock market boomed during corona. I was like, it's fake. And I know that's kind of a like a crow magnet approach to it. But it does seem weird that the stock market goes parabolic while productivity doesn't. No. Because yes and no, in hindsight, you could look back, no, that's fake. But in the moment, and even still now, you could consider that, well, how much money was printed into the economy? A lot of money. What was it? 40% of all dollars. Yeah. So you could look at that objectively and be like, all right, 40% more currency went into the market. People use that money to invest in the market. And now it's there. So that justifies the price going up. And that doesn't reflect a gain in real productivity. that just reflects this dollar is going to be inflated if you don't keep it in the market. Correct. So just to keep pace.

Yeah. So it's like instead of seeing inflation necessarily in the price of your bread, you're seeing inflation in the price of the stock market because that's where the money's going. Yeah. So it's impossible to really quantify how much was really caused by that, how much it's going to go down. Is this the new normal? Is it going to stay like it? We have no clue. Yeah.

I got it. I'm set. I'm rich guy. That's it. I thought your fear is that this was all bubble. This was all shame China was going to take over in the U.S. Well, well, I can bring some of that. Are you familiar with like Ray Dalai has been a pretty big China bull for a long time.

It's talked about sort of the end of the U.S. empire. He's been saying that for a long time. Yes. It seems to be that, do you think that is eventually going to happen? Like maybe in our lifetime, so? I think they're a huge market. And it seems as though a lot of overseas. these markets, they're like, that's even bigger than the U.S.

And their demand is even bigger than the U.S. I would not be surprised if that continues. Can they be as innovative as the U.S.? And can they create more than what we can here? Maybe, probably. I don't know to what extent, though. So I'm thinking, you know, the U.S. is so far proven, but I think there's more potential overseas.

It's just we don't know. Yeah. That's the way I see it. I think they're just as likely to do as well, but you know, you're taking a bit of a risk that it's a little bit less, you know, proven. Sure. So far. Yeah. And I think even to my concern that, you know, if let's just say that my hypothesis that the U.S. is a bubble and all of this stuff is overinflated, that doesn't mean that my money ought to be on the sidelines.

It means that it maybe should be in the European market or somewhere else, but not sitting. Yeah. I mean, probably anything's better than sitting, but you have a 66% chance. So far, I mean, that's what it's been like, if you dumped it all into the market at once, 66% of the time, you'll make more money than dollar cost averaging. Really? So, yeah. Yeah, but dollar cost averaging is going to, it's going to lower the exchange. It's going to lower the volatility.

Right. Got it. Yeah. And that's what I want. But two out of three times, you'll make more money just saying, all right, today I'm going to put it all in. I think, I can't remember over the period. I think it was like 10 to 20 years. Yeah.

You'll make more money doing it. And that's the other thing is I don't want to need or touch any of this money for ever. You know what I mean? I do plan like, there's things that are changing in the business, but I'm not planning on completely having my income go to zero. And if it did, you'd see a lot of activity for me in other fields doing other things. Yeah. The goal is to leave it in there and not need it, touch it for a long time. Yeah. Part of it, and part of it too just mentally, just assume the second you invest it, everything's going to drop 50%. Oh, I don't even, I don't care. You just even assume,

50%'s gone. Anything that drops, you know, less than that, it's a win. Yeah. My, exactly. No, if money is stress, this is, I don't know, I've noticed in, some ways I've been more stressed with more money and that's what I've tried to guard against when I had no money I couldn't lose any and when the market went down I didn't care and I was already sleeping on Ben's floor and so like it couldn't get worse than that so I want to make sure that I don't become one of the people that has a lot of money and is stressed about the fluctuations of the market when it's like you're better off than you were 10 years ago but you're mentally screwed every time and I hear people like freaking out about this most recent tip that are losing their mind and

definitely don't want to be it's not even that bad of a drop I mean, 10%. I know. I mean, yeah. Some people may be struggling then. Some people might be sensitive. Depends what you're invested in. If you're invested in an index fund, it's 10%.

It's like, you know. Yeah. But if you're invested in other companies, Jack. I know a guy. Remember, I was going to pay Jack $300 to sell out of one stock that we don't have the name here. Robin Hood. Robin Hood. And I was going to pay him to sell Robbins.

Robin Hood and he didn't do it. I'm bullish on it. And it's down another 20%. Yeah, it's just so plummeted. So not only would he have saved money, that 30 days would have been up, you would have been able to buy back in at a lower price and profit $300.

And then this dip probably would not have happened. No. And then you could have affected the macro economy of the United States of America. We'd all be better off that you would have taken the 300. Yes. It's odd. The moment Jack bought in Robin, I was telling him,

don't buy in. It's going to drop. Don't do it. bought in it drops. It just plummeted. When I listen to you, you know what? I'm reminded of the way that I, my video game seems like your stocks.

Like it, to me, like, do you, do you matter if he buys or doesn't buy it? You just seem very interested in like, it does. It does. It matters because as soon as he buys it, it always goes down. Well, the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. I am. Okay, so you got superstition.

To me, it does matter. Okay, so it is not just like I like to play the game and, and optimize the dials. It's like, this is important to my future. Every time. Every time. Every time. But I poke his buttons because I'm not superstitious whatsoever. So if I see him buying a stock, I'm going to buy it.

It bothers me. So purposely, I do. Now I have to buy socks in secret. So he won't buy them because I know if he buys them, they're going to go down. He didn't tell me he was buying Robin Hood when I bought it. I just looked over his shoulder and saw him like towing around like frantically looking on Schwab. I'm like, Jack, please just wait to wait to buy this. No.

Wait until I get rich. And I went in and I went in big. Like I went in really heavy for me. And the loss is proportional to how much Jack and back. Oh. Yeah. You're just like the anti-Rabits foot. Yeah.

Got it. As soon as he sells, though, that's the thing. It's the whole thing. No, I'm not selling. We need this. Think of the people. Not selling. How about this?

What if I had Vlad call you? It's a Jack sell. Sell Robin Hood? I would sell. You would? Yeah, I would sell. Who's your guys? I'm at the point now, it's virtually nothing.

I wonder if we could make this happen. Can you get him on the podcast? Vlad? Yeah. I don't think he would tell me to sell Robin Hood. You know what? It's his own company. That would be.

It'd be hilarious. If we got Vlad on the podcast, and he's like, Jack, please sell. Sell Robin Hood, man. We need it. You do, though, it's Skyrots.

Imagine that. Hey. Like the next day, they introduced crypto wallets. They put, you know, Shiba Inu on there. Their stock just like, watch,

they finally have a good net income. Yeah. They turn profitable. Don't do it. Stand strong. Yeah. It's about principle. Diamond hands.

That's what we're about. I bet we might be able to get them on the podcast. I do it. I would love to. Yeah. Yeah. It would be a bit of a controversial episode. Yeah.

Because people... Hate him. Well, I don't want to say they hate him. Some people dislike him. It's very easy on the internet to like to gang up on somebody and just, I don't like them. Yeah. So, and I'm not like, you know, people, people didn't think that, you know, defending him. We're like, oh, Graham's part of the suits.

He's, you know, I don't care. But, like, objectively, it's people, you know, in some of the internet comments, there's, they assume that I have a lot more control over the world than I do, that I'm like part of, I've seen on occasion some comments that intimate that I have, I don't know, that I'm part of some elite group of people that is making videos for any other purpose than just to get views and sell my course, that it's actually some, you know, that you would have influence over Robin Hood, for instance, being in the same vein of thing, that you would be related to that somehow because you're a finance YouTuber that they would contact you and then pay you to say nice things about

them. I think that people overestimate the amount of people trying to influence what I say. It's zero. Yeah. Yeah, like Donald, that was that was it. Donald Trump, his people must have gotten in touch with Chris. Oh, yeah. What? Nobody, no, nobody gives to shit what I say. I was actually hoping that the Democrats would reach out to me when they saw that video. Didn't happen. Wow. Yeah. It didn't happen. They didn't want my strategy. I had a good

I was ready. What would have been the strategy? I'm curious. Oh, it would have been, like, it would have been, so Hillary at the time, this is 2016, was leaning very heavily on her story and it was like very leaning heavily on the fact that she was a woman. And I think Barack Obama set the example, which is he was a black man who became president, but did not run on being the first black president.

That was not his mantra. And I think for Hillary, it was much more what she drove at. Her attacks on Donald Trump at the time were, she. She sort of bought into his frame. It's been a long time. But if you remember back to the election, Donald Trump framed himself as an outsider. He said, you know, that he was going to come and drain the swamp. And Hillary, instead of going, why the heck would you want an outsider?

Like, I was there when Osama bin Laden was killed. I've done this job better than other people. I've got years and years of experience. This guy only has failed hotel chains. She said, you know, who could be more of an outsider than me? The first female president, which was just totally an unbelievable claim to make that you Hillary Clinton, who lived in the White House, are an outsider. So she bought into the framing of what makes a good president that Donald Trump had set up.

And if she had instead said, I'm going to set the frame for what makes good president, someone's with experience, someone who is serious, someone who doesn't, you know, call other people names, and that's how I'm going to do things. I think she would have had a much, much better chance of. Yeah. So what have you noticed with Trump? Because you were mentioning frame setting. And that is something I actually never even thought about until you,

mentioned that, that he could go in with a narrative and other people feed into that. Yeah. I think unconsciously, even if they don't want to feed into it, they end up doing that, which I think is really interesting. He was, he dictated the terms. Immigration became an issue. Why? No one else was talking about it. No one else cared.

When he talked about that we need a strong leader and Jeb is weak, everyone rushed to prove how tough they were instead of like, why are, why is this guy dictating the rules of the game? Because when you think about it, a president, what makes a good president? Well, in 2016, Donald Trump got to decide for the entire field. And he picked things where he would excel. And everyone else just reacted to it. So, yeah, a lot less reactivity to his campaign and a lot more. And this is what people have, you know, Joe Biden actually won on this.

But I think standing for something would have done much better for Hillary and framing it, you know, about the experience thing that we talked about would have been a much better call. Joe Biden was very reactive to Donald Trump and just kind of ran as the. I'm not Donald Trump candidate. That actually worked out for him. And I think probably could work out again, given his success and how many people learned to hate him over the course of his time in office. That's fascinating. Would you ever run for president?

No, no, no, no, no, it's a worst job ever. I would never. You wouldn't. No. Even if someone just said, all right, you can have it. You don't have to campaign. You can have it. Take it.

Fix our problems. I mean, you've heard my work ethic. I think I'd be a poor president. I don't. He'd outsourced it. He'd hire a virtual assistant. Take care of this meeting for me. Meet my, yeah, my team, my crack team of BAs.

No, that's, I would definitely not want to. The White House would be in Malibu. Yes, exactly. I want to, if I do things in the future, like I said, I would be to have a, like, psychedelic trauma treatment clinic, I think is something, run a D&D show and potentially a video game studio one day. But those are all nice to have, definitely not politics. And what's like the time horizon on those?

When possible. Oh, ASAP. No, no. So we're actually, I mean, we're going to be putting a D&D show up within the next couple of weeks. That's going up. If you guys are in town, you want to hop in for a game? You guys are welcome. You want to do some DND gram?

I'm not good at it. Have you ever tried? I've watched it done. You've never done it, though. Yeah. No, it's so weird. And it's like, what is this ridiculous make-believe game that these 34-year-olds are playing? I get it.

I just love it. I have a great time with it. And so to the friends that I play with. But we've got that show coming up. in a few weeks, hopefully, so that'll be out. Psychedelic Center, time frame, when it's legal, they're legalizing it in Oregon. Mushrooms, at least, will be legal within two to four years. Ketamine is being legalized all over the U.S.

I am a big fan of, for treatment, MDMA, for post, you can have, what is it, PTSD, all sorts of things are well done. Anxieties, I find, and often hidden anxieties, things that I didn't know that I had. I'd be very curious if you took MDMA, what you'd get out of it. You wouldn't like it because you'd come out and you wouldn't be working. hard. It's a day wasted. I don't want to do anything that would have any potential to change or alter my mind.

Yeah. I have no desire. Yeah. And it does. If it works, it takes away edge for a lot of people. It takes away the, and it not like the chip on the shoulder, the drive of this, because it forces you to answer some of the questions like, why this edge, why this thing, which I have appreciated it, but I totally respect people that don't want to do it.

Yeah. I have to put it into your dream. secretly. Jack, it should be kicking in any moment now. So thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. And thank you guys for watching. Make sure, before you leave, subscribe, hit the like button. Make sure to get your free stock down below in the description, sign up for public. But more importantly, subscribe. Thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you. And until next time. Thanks, guys. Please. Really quick, can I have you look at the camera? Yes.