The Iced Coffee Hour - Side Hustle King: The Most Profitable Business You’ve NEVER Heard Of! | Chris Koerner

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

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How did you become known as the side hustle king? Probably by starting 80 side hustles. I've always said that the overlooked businesses are the ones that are the most profitable. Any side hustle can become a full-time business. Anything. There is a million ways to make a million bucks. This is a business that nobody talks about. So how much are you making in total from all of these businesses?

Millions of dollars a year net to me personally income. Why do you think most people never even start? What do people think about me? That's the number one thing. They need to care less about that than, they care about being broke. There has to be a great enough need. I like to say that everyone needs to hit their own personal rock bottom. What do you think could be a death sentence for an entrepreneur? The worst situation we can be in is when our job is just good enough. But sometimes when the

boats are burned for us, it can be the best thing that ever happens to us. And what qualities make the best business? It comes down to Chris Kerner. Thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. Thanks for having me. So you have some pretty crazy statistics with all of the different businesses that you run. But first we have to ask you, is passive income a scam? No. There's just a big asterisk by it. You have to work your way up to passive income, which takes a lot longer than most people think.

So it takes active work to then create passive income at some point in the future. Yes, or money. Or a lot of money. Why do people think it is a scam? Because there's a lot of course creators that make a lot of money by putting those two words in the name of their course. So there's a lot of passive income stuff that isn't actually passive income. Yeah, because the click-through rates and all the metrics show that it converts better if you call it that, but it's not actually that. So how many businesses have you built?

Over 80. How many have failed? Well, do you define like me pivoting away from it as a failure or like probably less than five? I have like properly failed. So why spend your time building all of these businesses when you could spend that time building one massive one? Yeah, because it's really fun. And I know one will be able to prove that I made the wrong choice, right? I can't A, B, test my life and say, Chris, if you just want to focus on that one, who knows?

There's too many variables. But what I do know is that, like, I don't want to report to a board. I don't want a bunch of shareholders. I don't want to take a company public. I don't want to be in meetings all day or Zoom's all day. I don't want to be away from my family. And to build a billion-dollar business, I feel like I would need to do those things. And what's the biggest business you currently run?

And how much does that make? Let's see, I have a portfolio of RV parks that I'm a partner in that is worth, in about a month or two, it'll be worth $250 million. I'm one of many partners in that, but that's the biggest asset I have. So how much are you making in total from all of these businesses? Millions of dollars a year net, to me, personal income. Between two and six depends on the year. How is there so much variance in your income? That's crazy. I feel like very few people we talk to have a 3x variance. It just depends on the year. It depends on do I exit something? Is there a big distribution one year? Did something fail the year before? Did I have a good year in some, a bad year and others? It's just all across the board. I've had multiple years in a row with zero dollars of income. So if you would have asked me a few years ago, it would have been much, much lower number. I could be getting the numbers wrong here. But if I'm doing some reverse math, if you run 80 businesses but you can make $2 million a year, then wouldn't the average business be like $25,000 a year? I've started 80 businesses. I don't have 80 today.

So how many do you currently operate? Like 9 to 11. 9 to 11. What you call like a business versus an investment, it's kind of fluid. Okay, that makes sense. Call it 10. And so how many businesses have you exited? Less than 10.

Most of the 80 businesses that I've started, I've just moved away from. Why would you move away from a profitable business? Opportunity costs. Sometimes they weren't profitable, right? They weren't failing. I could see like the path to scale, but shiny object syndrome, ADHD, opportunity costs, whatever you want to call it. just decided to put my energy and efforts elsewhere.

And how did you get started doing all this? What sparked the interests? I grew up poor, and I lived across the street from a golf course, and these golf balls would fly into my yard, and for whatever reason, I had the thought to sell them, to sell them to golfers. And so I lived on this busy road in Logan, Utah, and I put up this big piece of plywood, I leaned it against my mailbox, and it said, use golf balls three for a dollar. And at eight, nine, ten years old, I would just have.

with these golfers and just sell them use golf balls so I could pay the bills. Did they know you were so young when they would show up and see the sign? Probably not. Looking back, I think it's kind of crazy because I have a nine-year-old. I mean, I would let him do that, but I just can't imagine him doing that. Like talking with 35-year-old golfers about, like, can you do four for a dollar? Like, but that's what I was doing. Why were you different than your son in that capacity?

Well, my son didn't grow up poor. and to me it was just like a necessity, right? A lot of times people ask me like, why are you an entrepreneur? Why do you start businesses? And they want like this big, like philosophical answer. And it was just like, I just wanted to be able to have money for a yearbook

or a bike or candy. It was just a necessity. A lot of people are going to hear your story of selling golf balls when you were young and they're not going to be able to relate to that at all. But they know that they want to be an entrepreneur. And so there's going to be like this weird dissonance with most of the viewers where they're like tuning in because they want to be a business owner, but they're like, I have not been that person. What would you say if they could look inwards are the main traits that would be indicators of them being a successful entrepreneur? There has to be a great enough need, right? Because some people just like the idea of entrepreneurship, but then they try it, they taste it or they have a good job that pays them well and they just, it doesn't give them energy because they don't really have a need. So they kind of need to be at like their own.

personal rock bottom. I like to say that everyone needs to hit their own personal rock bottom, right? And that looks different to different people. But there needs to be a big enough need there, and they need to have a bias for action. Like, they need to just be impatient. Impatience can be a superpower. They need to just do things, like not just like research endlessly, but like be willing to go out there and like try to get a customer. And if they're not willing to do that, then they probably don't want to be an entrepreneur. And then what personality trait do you think, could be a death sentence for an entrepreneur. I think anyone can be an entrepreneur.

Not that anyone should. Anyone can? Yeah. I don't agree with that. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think some people are just naturally, can't do it, or they're way too impatient.

When Jack talks about qualities, the first thing that comes to my mind is impatience. Yeah. And wanting something too fast. I think that we are survivors as humans, right? We haven't had to survive in centuries. But if we truly had to, If I'm a father and I have to feed my family and there are no jobs, I would, if I didn't have an entrepreneurial bone in my body, I would find a way to make a work to feed my family. I might not like it. It might not be my true nature. I might be terrible at it. But I think everyone has the capacity. I don't think everyone should. I don't think everyone would like it. I think everyone would like it. I think everyone would like it. It's not as free as people would like to think. Maybe I oversimplify it because it's all I know.

No, I think that's a better justification is like, okay, everyone's sure they may have the capacity. Like if it was that or death, then, yeah, I would assume people can find a way to spin up some bucks to continue living. But also, like, would they end up living a fruitful, successful life? I would say not many people have that ability. It's all I know. So it looks easy to me. It feels easy. It's all I've ever done.

And so I tend to oversimplify it. How do you scale up from golf balls, though? Like, you're making money as a kid. How do you turn that into all of these different businesses? At 11, I moved away from Utah. I moved away from the golf course. I moved from Utah to Florida. And I just worked odd jobs.

I wasn't even an entrepreneur. It just kind of went dormant, right? I waited tables. I mowed lawns, whatever it took to make money. My parents got divorced at 13. My mom raised by San Juan. She was a waitress. She waded tables at this Mexican restaurant.

I bused tables. And then everything changed when I went and served a two-year mission for my church. I went to Hungary. I learned Hungarian, and I knocked doors, and I approached people on the street as an extreme introvert for two years. And that just like completely rewired my brain to make me embrace failure, embrace embarrassment, and just not care anymore. What sort of failure did you see knocking doors? Everything. Like, we were selling Jesus. We were teaching people about our religion. And in a post-communist, European country, in most countries that doesn't go over a while. In Hungary, it especially didn't. It was especially difficult.

And what did that teach you about people going door to door like that? It made me grateful for America, honestly, because these people, that's all they knew. They had lived in, like, this communist society for decades, and all they knew was darkness. There was no hope. And so it didn't, like, make me a pessimist. I'm an optimist. It made me grateful for America. And so to answer your question about how do you go from, you know, selling golf balls as a 10-year-old to 80 businesses, I came home with, like, no fear of failure, no fear of rejection, and that entrepreneurial gene that was, you know,

implanted to me at age 10 was reawakened, and I came home just like ready to take on the world. How long did it take you to get over the fear of knocking on someone's door? This might surprise some people, but for the entire two years of my mission, every time I knocked on a door, I would kind of silently hope they didn't answer. I never got over it.

Like, it was hard the entire time, right? Now, when they rejected me, I said, no, that got a lot easier. I didn't take it personally after a week, maybe. But I never, like, I never wanted them to answer the door. But then when they did, I would go all in. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of like you don't want to go to the gym, but you go anyway, and you're glad you did when you're done. I had a similar occurrence.

I did a video where we would go door-to-door window washing. And I hated it. Going door to door was so scary for me to knock on a door and feel like I'm intruding, I'm bothering them. And every single time, I have the same thing. I hope they don't answer it. I did the same thing for a video like a month ago. And it was no different. It was just cringe. It was bad. But when you start your first big businesses that start making money, how much did that cost you? And what gave you that idea? Yeah. So I was a student at the University of Alabama. And I had learned about another business. I was fixing iPhones from a retail location. And they were, they were like bragging to the local news that they were making $20,000 a month. And I had been reading these business books.

I'd been like looking for my thing to start. And for whatever reason I said, I can do that. I can fix phones. And so right around the same time, one of my classmates gave me a broken iPhone, and I saw like a flyer on the bulletin board for a guy that fixed iPhones. And so I went to his dorm room, and I had him fix my iPhone in front of me, and I asked him all kinds of questions. and then I went and signed a five-year lease on a storefront.

How did you sign a five-year lease on a storefront with no income? So I went to all my previous bosses because I didn't grow up around wealthy people. My parents had no money. And I basically say, hey, Danny, like, I want to start this business fixing iPhones. This was 2010. So iPhones were still very new. No one thought it was viable, right? And the only data point I had was one news article I read about some guys, right?

But he's like, no, I went to my boss at the Thai restaurant where I was waiting tables. He said no. Everyone I knew said no. Until I went to a guy that I met on my mission in Hungary, in Hungary. He was Austrian, but he was living in Hungary. And I knew he owned a few businesses. And I told him, and he's like, no question, how much do you need? And I had some Pell grants. I had some credit card advances. But I needed $20,000. And he gave me the $20,000. And I put my Pell grants in, my credit card advance, and started the business. Why could you not just do that from your dorm? That's what everyone told me to do, right? And that would have been wise, but I looked at it as every day that I don't open, I'm losing money. Like, I'm effectively losing money. And so if I start small and scale this, I'm losing money. I want to be at scale now. And I did do some research.

So I scraped every single iPhone repair shop in the country with some random piece of software I found online. And I learned that a city of 100,000 could support about two iPhone repair stores. And the city I lived in, coincidentally, had 100,000 people, and there were no stores. And it was a similar demographic city as Baton Rouge, where Louisiana State was. So I thought, okay, 30,000 students, they're all going to get iPhones or smartphones. There's no one here fulfilling this need. I just knew, like, this will work. This works in all these other cities.

It will work here. And how much did you make from that? I sold it a few years later for a million bucks, right at a million bucks. Who bought it? A private, just a guy that won't. wanted to quit his W-2. He had a six-figure job and he wanted to own his own business. And you just had one storefront? We had four. Okay, so you had expanded. And how many in that city? One. And it's still there. 15 years later. That store is still there. So how much did you make in your

first year running this iPhone screen fixing business? First year, not much at all. No. No. The second year, maybe 60, 70,000. And then I partnered with another business and they took over it. I owned a third at that point. And then they added at one or two more stores and sold it. Why do you think most people never even start? They're just afraid of what people think or say. And people don't care. That's the whole secret is people don't care about you. Do you think it is that or do you think people just overthink what they want?

They do that too. Absolutely. Yeah. They get their dopamine from research because it feels good to like crunch numbers, make spreadsheets, copy the sheet, make this scenario, this scenario. It feels really good and we're getting dopamine from that. But we need to get our dopamine from action, right? from calling and trying to get a customer, trying to get a sale, like trying to call and negotiate a lease.

We get dopamine from both things, but the former is easier, the research side of things. So they get stuck in that loop forever until they get bored with it, and then they move on. And then they tell people, ah, it just didn't work out.

So how do you encourage somebody to start if they're either overthinking the idea or afraid of approval? I was afraid of what people thought as well. And so I did something kind of dumb. I put like a false constraint on myself. And I was like, I'm not ever going to post about this to Facebook. Because if I have to, what I told myself was if I have to start a business that relies on my friends and family, then they might not scale.

You don't have a business. But what the real reason was was, I don't want people to see what I'm doing because I might fail. I might not do it. I don't want to be publicly accountable, right? So everything I did, I did without the help of my friends and family who were willing to help. They were willing to be my first customer, right? But I didn't use that. So people need to just let go of that and be willing to ask for help from their friends and family to be their first customers.

And they need to do something every single day to keep the ball moving. Because we focus a lot on focus, right? That's the question everyone asked me, like, what if you should have done one business? What if you focus? What would happen if you focus? But we don't focus on momentum. We don't talk enough about momentum. I think momentum is everything.

And if we keep momentum going, then it doesn't matter if we focus. focus or not. We're going to win if we just keep going, right? In my opinion, compounding does not care if we're doing one thing or multiple things because if we're getting positive signals from an idea, we're not going to be distracted by other ideas. The distraction is a signal that something isn't right with this idea. But that would require a good idea in the first place. What would you say is more important for someone looking to become an entrepreneur or make a lot of money in business? Should they try to come up with the idea first or hone their skills first? Now, obviously, spring could be a great time to focus on your health as you're getting ready for the summer.

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Should they try to come up with the idea first or hone their skills first? I think they should try to find a customer first, a paying customer on any idea. Just steal an idea, honestly, like a burger restaurant. People try to think of a new idea. New ideas are more likely to fail than anything because it's new. I want an idea with precedent, right? I want a roadmap of someone that's gone before me and done that. And then I just want to copy that.

So I think that's what people should focus on, is taking another idea that meshes with their background. Maybe like their college major had something to do with it or their previous job or their passion or something, some idea that they've seen out there in the market, that looks interesting to them, and they should try to find a customer there. And they'll learn so much more in the effort of finding a customer

than they would in the effort of trying to research that idea forever. And at what point do you decide to cut the idea? That maybe this is not working. That's an excellent question. So that answer for me is different than for others. For me, if two weeks have elapsed, and I'm still thinking about it, I can go into bed, I'm on a walk, and I'm just like, there's something, there's really something to that.

Because I come across a ton of ideas on a daily basis. And so that idea has to compete with all kinds of others coming into my brain, right? So for me, two to three weeks is about the test that I give it. But for the average person, they have this thing called product market fit, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. And a normal business, let's call it a business or a business idea, feels like pushing a boulder up a hill, right? It's exhausting.

It's hard. We acquire two customers, we lose one. We acquire three, we lose two. That's normal. That's okay, right? but 5% of the time you've got product market fit where instead of pushing that boulder up a hill, you're sprinting down a hill.

And the boulder represents demand, customers, right? Money. And they're chasing you. You can't even sleep because you're fulfilling orders, right? You just find the sweet spot in the market, the pricing, the offer. It's just all the lines and you have product market fit, right? That is a beautiful thing.

Like, that is when you should not have shiny object syndrome. And you won't. Like, just by default of the idea, being so successful, you won't be looking around. You'll be figuring out how to fulfill these orders, right? It's then when you should not look around. But if it's the normal thing and you're pushing a boulder up a hill and you still have shiny object syndrome,

it doesn't mean you should just chase the first idea because that boulder, like, you could get over the hill and you could find product market fit. Keep pushing it. But also listen to those signals. Because if something sounds like a good idea to us, it's for a reason. And so it might sound woo-woo on the surface,

But like, we need to get to the bottom of like why that idea sounds interesting to us. And then maybe spend a little bit of time just kind of exploring it a little bit. You probably get pitched so many ideas. What are some of the common ideas that you hear that are just a waste of time? Like a lot of times, like the first thing that comes to mind for me is always like drop shipping or like Amazon FBA or like things like this that are so saturated. It's not worth anybody's time. Yeah. I think that with the right distribution, the right marketing, any idea could work. Like literally any business idea could work. If I were to think of the dumbest idea, like a Hello Kitty themed mous trap, right? Just objectively dumb. And if I were to tweet about that, I might get zero customers, right? If Elon Musk were to retweet me, I would get some customers because it's more distribution. That's it. It's not suddenly a good idea, right?

So I think that people should spend less time on the ideation and more time on the distribution strategy, more time trying to find customers. And if they do that, then a bad idea can become a good idea. And how do you test that idea to make sure there's enough demand? Facebook ads, Facebook groups, Facebook marketplace, meta ads, Instagram ads, short form video, Facebook posts. And what are you doing? You're running an ad to a landing page and then seeing if they just put their email address in? You don't even need to go that far. You could just post your idea to Facebook Marketplace. It doesn't need to be a product idea. It could be a service idea. Post it to Facebook Marketplace. Post another variation of it with a different price point or a different title and just see how many impressions each one gets. And then you've got one signal. You're like only 5% of the way there. Then you just do it again. You change the price point. You change the picture. You change some variable. Leave the other ones the same.

and just keep testing. And by the end of a week, you're going to have a really good idea if that idea is worth anything or not. How difficult is it to be decent at Facebook ads? It's not that difficult to be okay at it. You watch a few YouTube videos, play around with it for a few hours,

and you're probably where you need to be to post ads and start spending money and start seeing some signals that look promising or not. Most people seem to want to do this for the money, but do you find that there's an understanding, underlying reason beyond the money that someone wants to take on a side hustle or try to get passive income. Seems like in a lot of these cases they just want time. Yeah, and they don't want to be told what to do.

They probably had a crappy boss. They just want to own their time and they want to be able to provide for their family. I mean, the American dream is ownership in all its forms, whether it's ownership of a house or of your time or your idea or money, financial situation. What do you think of the four-hour work week? That book changed my life. Do you think it's possible? Absolutely. 100%.

Have you seen it in real life, someone working four hours a week and making that much money? Yeah. Like, if I wanted to work four hours a week, I could, and I would make really good money. But I, like, work is my passion. Like, I love working. You guys love working. It's fun to me. So I'll never retire.

Do you think, though, that if you only worked four hours a week, that after maybe a year, someone else would take over that spot, who is put up? and the time and the effort. 100%. Yeah. And I think the same thing about remote work versus in person.

I think if two companies are selling the same product or service, one is in person, one is remote. The in person company wins. So I look at that as the same principle.

So if in person is so successful, why do some of the biggest companies not demand in person work? I don't think they agree with me, honestly. I think that they, like, good is the enemy to great and they think they're doing fine remote,

so they're okay with that. So you demand all of your companies to be in person? No, I don't. because I'm not trying to build a world-beating company. Like, I know my companies would do better if I were in person. But I've got really good employees that are remote and they don't want to move, and I'd rather keep them.

And I don't want to go into the office every day anyway. I work from home. But you're saying if all of those employees were in the same place with you, then the businesses would be more successful. 100%. What's the biggest advantage that that gives you, just being in person? It's hard to quantify, like those water cooler conversations. or just being able to go right down the hall and talk to someone.

Because if I needed like a file from you and we were in the same office. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust.

Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. And I just went down to your, into your office to ask for the file. we'd probably start talking about something else. I'd like, oh, what are you working on? What's out on your whiteboard? And we would just start talking. And amazing, beautiful things come out of those conversations.

I've seen it. I've had businesses where I've gone into the office every day, and it's incredibly fulfilling to do things together in person. And you, that is just a soapbox of mine. You cannot replicate them. I agree. It also lowers the bar for what makes something conversation worthy. So, for example, if I have a problem that comes up,

I'm not going to call Graham and bother him if he's not here at the studio. working just to try to, you know, workshop the idea, come to a quicker conclusion, or maybe I won't even come to a conclusion at all to just stave off the problem, push it off, push it off. But if Graham's there, then I'm like, hey, by the way, you know, what do you think about this, just lowering the bar for what's worth bringing up? And then we've solved the problem right then and there. At what point would you say you became rich? My late 20s. And what caused that? My second real business. So I had my iPhone repair business. I ran that for two years. and then right at the end of year two,

I merged with another company that basically took it over and I still had a third ownership stake in it. The day after I merged, I started a business that started selling iPhone parts and recycling iPhone parts. It was called LCD cycle. And we did $28,000 our first month,

$60,000 our second, $150,000 our third month. And we ended up doing over $2 million the first year and we doubled every year for five years. Was that the easiest business you ever started? Hmm, that's a good question. Because to make close to $30,000 in the very first month of operations, like that's crazy. Yeah. And you seem to be, you know, have your finger on the pulse of that market.

Yeah. When you say easy, it wasn't easy operationally, but it was the second, like, most successful business I had started in a short amount of time. Does that make sense? Yeah. It was like the second most successful business I had gotten from zero to a million in a short amount of time. And why would you say you became rich then? because we had a lot of free cash flow.

I was in my mid-20s, and we were netting $700,000 to a million a year. And I was distributing most of that to myself. Did that make you happier? What made me happy was showing to my wife that I could do it. It wasn't the money. My wife is incredibly supportive, incredibly patient. Anything I've ever wanted to do, she's like,

I trust you, go for it, right? And even when things didn't go well, She never had like a snide comment, nothing, not even once. So being able to say, hey, babe, like, look at the bank account. That made me happy because she's never asked for handbags or nice things or anything, right? But did you get her one? She doesn't want, today she doesn't want them. But you didn't ball out at all?

You're in your 20s, making a ton of money. We ball out by, we have a night. We got a really nice house that we still live in today, and we go on really nice trips with our family. Okay. And we eat. We're foodies, so we eat really well. But we don't have, like, fancy cars and clothes and hands. handbags or anything. How did you become known as the side hustle king? Probably by starting 80 side hustles,

80 businesses. Who gave you that name? Did you name yourself? No, I didn't. That was Ben Levy. He's friends with the, he's business partners with the My First Million guys. And I think he came up with that. And then they titled one of their videos with me as that. And then it kind of stuck. I actually just spent four grand last week on side hustle king.com. I just wanted to own the domain. I don't know what I'll do with it. But you wouldn't even consider what you do side hustles. You'd say their most businesses. No, I kind of like cringe at that, of that phrase because anything can scale. Any side hustle can become a full-time business. Like anything, I will go to my grave in saying that. So, yeah, it's just, I don't know, it seems kind of like a negative connotation to me.

Are there any true side hustles? Like something that can't scale? Yeah. I don't think so. I mean, a lemonade stand can scale. Anything. Use golf balls can scale. Because we have the internet. Like, we have unlimited What did you crave so much to continue working in business and to get started in business in the first place? Like what did you feel like you were missing in your life? We I was poor. I was always poor and I hated it my best friend one of my best friends was wealthy and I lived in a very middle class area, right? Titusville, Florida, you can go look it up is very middle class if not lower middle class. I was below middle class. my close friend was my close friend and my boss, my wrestling partner's dad. They were both business owners and they did very well.

One lived on a river. One lived in a really nice house. And it was just this weird dichotomy for me to be poor. Like I never had name brand shoes. My shoes came from Payless, hand me downs. I had these jeans that would get holes in them. My mom would cut them off, hem them and turn them into shorts. Like I went back and looked at my school pictures as a kid.

And you can just see in my picture, I was poor. And I just didn't like, I didn't like it. I didn't like not having money for a field trip, like $35 for a field trip or a yearbook. And so I just, I wanted to grab that myself and fix it myself. But did you have an abundance or scarcity mentality around money? Because it seems like you have an abundance mentality. Like you can make money wherever. Yeah.

You know, money is everywhere. I think definitely abundance. I know I have abundance mentality now. Back then, I didn't know what it was, but if I had to label it, it would be abundance. because I saw what was possible in my friends. Have you noticed that most of the successful entrepreneurs have an abundance mentality towards money or a scarcity one? A thousand percent abundance.

So what do you think is so important about an abundance mentality for an entrepreneur? And also, if you have a scarcity mentality, what is the advantages that can come with that? I don't know if I can think of any. I mean, honestly. Maybe being a little conservative on things. Tight with the budget.

Maybe not over-expanding, not over-indulging. There's got to be a few. things. That's true. I don't know if I see that as scarcity, though. Maybe that's just like being financially conservative. Like, I think you could have an abundance mentality and be frugal, right? Yeah, probably. That was a two-part question, though. The second part was... Yeah, like, why do you think the abundance mentality is so important for people that are growing in business? Yeah. I think what people don't understand is that when a new entrant joins an industry, in most cases, not all cases, it grows the entire industry, right? The reason that some of the world's best venture

capitalists passed on investing in Shopify, because back in the early 2000s, Shopify's total addressable market was like $10 billion, right? And so they said, okay, if Shopify owns 50% of this market, it's a $5 billion outcome, their valuation today is $500 million, is 10x really worth it for us at a Series C, and they passed. What they didn't know was that, Shopify's market would become a trillion dollar market. And now they own 15% of it, which is 50 times bigger than they thought the entire market was. So to me, that stat right there is the abundance mentality, right?

When you join a market, it grows the market. I knew a woman who made a million dollars decorating porches with pumpkins, right? That's all she does. October hits, and she charges $700 to put fancy pumpkins on a porch. And I posted about her, and it went mega viral. I think I might have seen that on 20. Probably did. Yeah.

Everywhere. Yeah. 20 million views, right? And now, like, she was literally the only person decorating porches with pumpkins. Now there are hundreds. And her business is thriving. Because now people know, I can pay someone to make my porch look awesome. So that helped her.

But most people I reach out to, I'm like, hey, let me profile. You're like, no, no, no, I don't want people to copy me. But they don't realize it doesn't work like that. Yeah, the Christmas lights is another huge opportunity. Like, we pay, I think it's like 800 bucks for them to put up. the lights and then take them down and they're doing the entire neighborhood. Yeah. So you could imagine like 150 homes at $800 each.

Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot of money for a seasonal business. To your example, Elon Musk, right, very abundance mindset. And he wants Mercedes for Toyota to make electric cars. He wants his market share to shrink because he knows he'll sell net more cars if they own 40% of the EV market as opposed to 60% because they're that much more normalized. That's the abundance mindset. So what do you think of the term side hustle? It doesn't sound like anything of

what you're doing is really a side hustle. It seems like starting a small business and expanding that. Yeah, well, I think any business can be proved out as a side hustle. I don't think people should just outright quit their jobs to test something. There's probably an exception out there, but basically anything can be proven without having to quit your job and go all in. So if someone hears side hustle and they think that's my escape hatch from the nine to five, like, that's what I need, a side hustle.

And that's what they get from that term, then I love it. If it enables more entrepreneurs, then I love the term. But I just don't want it to be seen as like derogatory or demeaning. How many people are just better off, though, working harder at the job they currently have instead of doing side hustles or side businesses. 80 to 90% of people maybe. Yeah.

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Thank you so much. Now let's get back to the episode. At what point should you decide to quit your job to pursue your side hustle? if you can see the path to scale, right? If you're not making enough money yet to replace your income, but you see what it would take. For instance, you're running Facebook ads, and let's say you have a pressure-washing business.

And you're making $10,000 a month in your full-time job, and you're making $3,000 a month on the side in your pressure-washing business. And you're tinkering with Facebook ads, you're tinkering, and finally you're like, oh, I got it. I just need a 15-second video that leads to an instant form.

That is the winning combo for my industry and my local market, right? I'm going to let Facebook decide who to show it to, but it's got to be a vertical video, it's got to be an instant form. And I know that I close 30% of those leads

and they cost $20 each to acquire, right? So they can see the path. And then they even test it. They're like, all right, I'm doing $50 a day budget. Let's do $100 a day. All right. Instead of costing me $50 to require a customer cost me $60,

but my average job size is $700. I'm still very profit. I can see the path to scale here, but it's kind of a chicken and egg situation. I don't want to increase my adsman before I quit because I don't have time to do all these jobs or even quote all these jobs. But they know at this point, like, if I quit, I can see the path to scale. I can replace my income with this one marketing channel. See, I've always felt that the ideal time to go all in on something else is when it's

consistently making more than you could make from your day job. And once that becomes stable enough to relax. on, then at that point, I think it might be worth it. That's certainly the better route, right? What I say is maybe more approachable to more people, because I think it's a lot harder to get to that point to where your pressure-washing business on the nights and weekends is making $11,000 a month and your job is making $10. I just think it's harder to get there.

In a perfect world, that is superior. Yeah. So for someone who wants to start, where do you recommend they begin? Does it start with a good idea? How do they find that idea? How do they make that into a reality? How do they know that they know enough or know what they don't know? Yeah.

Well, I think if someone is asking themselves that question, they probably already have some idea, right? A lot of times we get business ideas from things that we see in our job. Like we see a vendor that's just making a lot of money. They're like, huh, I know how to do what the vendor is doing. That's where we should start. Like start with an idea that you already have. at that point, do whatever you can do to find a paying customer as soon as possible. Or a free, an unpaid customer.

Someone to say yes to your product or service, whether they pay you or not. Because that is going to be as hard as finding the next 20 customers. But it's going to give you so much more motivation and knowledge and skills than just endlessly researching that idea. So don't try looking for ideas. If you're watching this, you're listening to this, you probably already have ideas. Start there and see whatever you can do

to acquire customers as fast as possible. If someone does not feel like they have any sort of advantage, what's the thing that they could leverage that gives them a one-up? Humility and gratitude. It sounds generic, but it's not. Having the humility to ask for help, ask for a conversation.

Tell me what you think of this idea. Right. And then if they think favorably of it, can I do that for you for free? Can I run your Facebook ads for free? Can I implement AI in your business for free? If it's not helpful, then they learned. If it is helpful, then they probably will turn that friend into a paying customer. See, I like asking someone else, but oftentimes I feel like a lot of people will just say, oh, that's a great idea, because very few people want to be honest to be like, that's kind of crap. Would it be better, though? Just ask perfect. If you like the idea, would you pay me for it. How do you get honest feedback? Yeah. I mean, you answered your own question. If they're willing to pay for it, then they actually think it's a good idea. And there actually is a demand for it, preferably, unless they're willing to waste money on you. Is there a popular piece of advice that you hear very often that shared that you think is total garbage? Don't share your ideas because people will copy them. That's total garbage. We should share ideas with everyone. What if we share an idea here on the podcast, though, and we have a,

all these listeners. Is that about idea? Or do you think that's, that's fine? All I do is share ideas. That's all I do. Because Graham and I, we have an idea. Yeah, but let's just say you have a really good idea that you could implement, that very few people have been doing. And if we share it to 200,000 people, statistically, a few of them will actually do that idea and do it really, really, really well. And it might, you know, compete with us if we have a unique advantage. Yeah. Well, let me give you some exceptions to the rule, right? So maybe it's like a unique product that needs to be patented. If you share that to 100,000 people, someone goes out there.

And it's a very specific idea for a specific product. Let's say it's in the used car parts industry. And someone out there has been in the used car parts industry, and they're also an idea guy and law of large numbers. And it just all overlaps. And they're like, I've also patented something. And for some weird reason, they have all the tools and skills and know how to steal that idea. That would not be a good idea to share that in that case,

That could be stolen. But that's so specific, it's not likely to actually be the case. I'm curious to hear what you guys have, because in your case, you have an unfair advantage of an audience. So most likely your idea could be grown with your audience, and most likely the person that is capable and willing and has the money to copy that idea does not. You want to explain your idea?

Yeah. So the idea is, and this already exists, but I think we could do our own rendition of it. We could probably do it better. if you have a bunch of different credit cards that have benefits and bonuses, then you have one dashboard that has all of the deadlines

and it can send reminders to you, hey, by the way, make sure you spend this ORARing credit and make sure that you spend your cozy earth credit, whatever it is. And then also there's like rotating categories for a lot of credit cards where you can get 10% back up to a certain amount of spend. And if you could do a small survey

or put in some companies that you're already interested in or your credit card can look at where you've spent money and you can scrape that data. Instead of just giving someone 700 things that I'll have different expiration dates for a bunch of companies that you're unlikely to spend money at as a user, if it was a little bit more curated

of a list of like, hey, you know, like I noticed you spent money here, you can get 10% if you just want to check out then. And so it's kind of just like a lot of data consolidating it and I'm going kind of broad here. We don't want to get it exactly into like the nitty gritty specifics because that might be unwise.

But as a general idea, it would be credit card optimization for our very credit card heavy body. 100%. And the MX page is so convoluted with hundreds of offers. No one looks through it. But if you have the data, AI should be able to sort, hey, you're most likely to shop at these places, get these rewards. Or these rewards are the highest ROI based on your current spend and where you spend your money and where you're likely to get value. And then these ones expire. And at the end of the quarter, they're gone forever. Like I missed the Dell credit for the MX platinum. I just forgot about it. But that's 100 bucks. credit that was $100. I actually didn't even do a hotel credit one time, which was $300 with the Amex platinum. In fact, there was an old credit card I was going to go cancel.

And I pop it open and I'm like, what kind of benefits do I even get from this card? There was no annual fee. I just didn't want the card anymore. I look and I see the rotating categories. One of the categories was Cozy Earth. They're a sponsor of this channel. This is not a sponsored segment, by the way.

I genuinely just love their product. And so I see that I can spend $500 and get 10% back. and I also, with our discount code, sorry guys, I swear they're not... What is it? Code iced? Code iced or whatever it is. You guys can check it out on the screen. I was like, well, I can stack this with the credit card thing, and I can get like a pretty sizable discount.

I was going to go cancel the card. This was something that I kind of wanted already, and I got 10% stacked on top. And I saved a lot of money because of it. So either way, this is something that people do not realize if they were just to get 5% back on 10% of their spend, like that could be a pretty large number. Yeah. Hey, everybody. this is Grant from the future, and we did actually end up building this idea. So if you want to be a part of it and get early access and join the wait list, we'll have the information right here on screen or down below in the description. Would love to have you a part of it. We're really excited, and you're the first to hear it right now. So with that said, thank you so much. We'll get back to the episode now.

That's an amazing idea, because I do credit card hacking, and I think what you should add to that idea is upload your bank statement, and it could tell you what cards to buy, like what cards to add. add to your stack and you could just use the affiliate links to put them on those cards. Because is there an affiliate link that's more profitable than credit card? Mm-mm. That's pretty good. I mean, any sort of like FinTech company affiliate link, like a SOFI affiliate link, I know they pay a lot. It's like, hey, you're spending five grand a month on Facebook ads. MX was an MX gold?

It gives four points back per dollar. And then you send them a link for MX gold. And you could charge a monthly fee on top of that. I think that's someone's going to do that. Like that's a no-brainer. I think ideas are more valuable than they ever. have been. I think even with AI ideas are incredibly valuable. What would you say are the best AI tools that people should use, the lowest hanging fruit if you're trying to build a business?

You need to be vibe coding apps. What is vibe coding? Using natural language, just like we're using today, to build an app. Hey, build me a credit card dashboard where I can do travel hacking all in one place and see when my cards expire so I don't pay the renewal fee on cards I'm not using, etc. One prompt to get one app. I mean, if you think about it, colleges are teaching students today, what AI can already do better. So how do you recommend

being on the right side of that curve? Every new tool, every new update from the claws of the chat, GBT's, the Gemini's of the world, you have to play around with. You have to get to know. Even if you don't like it,

it's a non-negotiable. It's like moving to America and refusing to learn English. That doesn't work. Like if you want to move to America to get a better life, you have to learn English. If you want to have a better life

anywhere in the world, you have to learn AI, period. What's one of the biggest mistakes the beginners make before they even start? With AI specifically? Just with starting any sort of business, it could be AI. They think about what they learn in college. They try to be smart. They overthink it.

They need to just do it. They need to just go out and fail in small ways and make small mistakes because they're going to learn a lot faster during the execution of things than in the learning of things. And what qualities make the best business? Are there things that you look for? 100%. it comes down to high gross margin. It's very, very hard to overcome a business that does not have high gross profit margin. And then leadership.

Like you can't, you put a good leader in a crappy business and you've got a good business. You can't sacrifice that. How do you find good leaders? I don't spend a lot of time in interviews and like going back and forth and doing reference checks. I just look at this like a numbers game. I just tell everyone it's a 30-day test. and don't be offended if it doesn't work out. Because in my experience, other people probably have different experiences,

but in my experience, there's no correlation between how much time I spend really digging into someone and the likelihood of them working out or not. Because the fact of the matter is, some people show really, really well. Some people interview really, really well. And oftentimes there's an inverse correlation of those people and how they turn out. They put their energy into showing well, but then they don't show up. They don't perform well. And what do you notice from the people who don't perform well?

Like, are there any signs that you start to notice or, like, when they interview well, that's like a little tick or, like, they shuffled this way. Like, that's a red flag. I'm going to answer that a little differently. You will get your absolute best out of an employee the first week. And so if you're doubting or questioning a little bit that first week, almost certainly they're not going to work out. you need to be completely surprised.

Holy crap, this person is even better than I thought they were. They're doing even more than I thought they would. But if that first week you're like, all right, this is good, but this is good. Okay, well, they're new, and you just start, like, making excuses for them because you want them to work out

because your pride's on the line, right? You're the one that made that decision to hire them. It's almost certain that you'll end up firing them. So why not do it right then? And then just go on to the next person. What about beyond that? Are there things that you see that are red flags for you?

Not being able to work well in ambiguity. I thrive in ambiguity. Most employees don't. They want to be told exactly what to do. And that's okay. In some of my relationships and roles outside of business, I have like a boss. My wife is kind of my boss.

And when she tells me exactly what to do, go to Home Depot, buy this thing. I don't have to think. It's really nice, right? But if an employee in the interview process says they have, they can tolerate a high degree of ambiguity, and then in the first week it's clear that they don't, that they're not taking the initiative to get creative and go to go find answers to their questions before coming to you, that's usually a tell that they're going to fail in other aspects as well. And how do you keep people motivated to keep operating at their top performance?

Cash incentives. the Netflix approach. They don't have these complicated bonus structures with RSUs that vest. They just pay their people a lot of money and they directly tie them to the outcome of the projects that they're working on. In my experience, that is the best way.

Not sharing equity, not like dangling a carrot for weeks and months and years on end that may never pan out because most equity goes to zero. By definition, most equity goes to zero. But if they have a direct incentive, if their project is directly tied to more cash in their personal checking account, they're more likely to be successful.

They need to see it then, not to just hope for some payout in the future. And where do you find people who work with you? The best people I hire come from personal references, friends of friends. And what about working with friends? It's high risk, high reward. Working with like a business partnership with a best friend, a 50-50 partnership where you're both there in person, On-site every day building the same thing.

One of you doesn't have a side hustle or a job. You're all in. That can be the most magical, amazing thing ever. But the statistical chance of it working out is very slim. Because usually one of them is invested more money or more time or one of them still has a job or one of them is remote, the other one's on site. All of those variables means that it's probably going to blow up at some point in the future. What's the messiest situation you've seen from that?

A $50 million business that I was built. that went to zero overnight when my two business partners just pushed me out. How could they do that? They started a new entity. The agreement that we had signed did not allow them to do that,

but they had this big deal on the table with some investors, and they said, they went to the investors and said, hey, there's not really enough room on the cap table here, so we got this,

Chris is going to do something else. And so they just tore up that agreement, started a new business, and told the investor, to join him there. Did you pursue it at all? Like, did I come after them? Yeah.

Yeah. And it all blew up. Everything blew up. Like the business we had, the business that they were starting, it all just went to zero. So nobody won. There's no winner. Why couldn't you just remake that business? I didn't want to.

It was a capital-intensive business. It's not something that I would have started on my own anyway. I joined up with two guys from the ground floor. One of them raised the money. I was the operator. And it's not something that I wanted to do by myself. Why did you go after them to destroy it instead of just like, yeah, whatever? Because I had invested 18 months of my full-time focus, in person, not remote, tens of thousands of dollars,

and the opportunity cost of everything I said no to over those 18 months was very high. And we had not made a profit yet. And so this was a life-changing deal for all of us. and I felt they had done wrongly. Did they end up having to pay you anything for that? It was literally just... They paid their lawyers, I paid mine. And then you just, it was like mutually assured destruction by the end of it.

Yeah. Where's that relationship today? Do you speak with them alone? They're best friends, Graham. Yeah, we had them over for dinner last night. One of them, I don't speak, I don't hold anything against them anymore. One of them I don't talk to because we weren't really friends in the first place, but I hold nothing against them.

And the other one, we're still friends, honestly. He, yeah, our families are still involved. We, together, we live five minutes apart. I would not go into business with him again. I'm not knowing what I know now. But, I mean, if you don't forgive someone, it'll eat you alive. What did you not see in these partners? I didn't vet them enough.

I didn't know them well enough. I didn't do due diligence like I would with a spouse. Would you have been able to find this out by doing more due diligence? I think so. Yeah. What would you have seen? When you're in a relationship, any relationship, business or otherwise, you see red flags or yellow flags, right? Even if it's with a potential spouse.

And those flags do not turn into red flags unless it's in retrospect. Does that make sense? Because if you start dating someone and something they do is like a yellow flag, it's either just an imperfection or there's something seriously wrong there. and you won't know until it's all played out. So I chose to overlook red flag after red flags, things that he would say, stories about his past, and I overlooked them just like I would in a spouse, right? But in aggregate, it adds up, and you start to see patterns.

And because of the fact that I was already months down the line in this business relationship, I just continually chose to overlook them until it was too late. What about in a spouse? What qualities do you look for or recommend for entrepreneurs. You need a spouse that A has a reason to believe in you. They need something. So that needs to start with you. You need to give them a reason to believe in you. But B, you need a spouse that just keeps believing you, like is truly there for you and knows that

you're capable of doing it and supports you wholeheartedly. I have several friends that would make amazing entrepreneurs, but their spouse comes first and they should. And so they're not. And they will never be entrepreneurs because the spouse either doesn't believe in them or is just too nervous about the outcome. Maybe they're just risk adverse, right? I'm not talking about a bad person here, just someone who's more risk adverse than the husband. Do you think that sometimes, though, if a spouse does that, it's them feeling insecure and not wanting their partner to do well because they're afraid that they might leave them? I think that could be the case. I wouldn't think that that's normally the case, but I think in some instances, yes. If we punch out real quick, like the average

viewer out there that tunes in because they want to start a business. I'm curious, what would you say after listening to this is the very first thing they should do after this podcast or this clip, of course, finish the podcast in the clip? They have to go find a customer. So they have an idea, or let's even start Ground Zero. They have no idea. So they want to do the copy strategy. Okay, so they're going to find a successful business, someone they know, some, you know, neighbors, uncles, once removed, you know, dog owners, whatever it is. That person has a successful business. They want to copy it. They have an idea.

Okay. And then the first thing they must do is come up with their own rendition of it? Or is it just the same? No, exact same. As closely as possible. Okay, so you're going to do the exact same as closely as possible. And you're going to find a paying customer for that idea. And then what do you do, you know, let's say knocking doors.

Let's get hyper-specific here. Are you putting out Facebook ads? How do you find that first paying customer friend? Can you give me like a hypothetical idea? Sure. Let's say that the idea is a, you know someone that sells a retractable dog leash thing. Like those things, you know, you push the button and it like goes and goes out. And you want to be able to make your own and you kind of know how to do that.

So you probably heard that they're doing really well, I'm imagining, right? Like not only is someone doing that, but they, you know, they just kind of let it slip. The thing's going really well. I would go to Alibaba or Alibaba and try to source something that looks very similar. And then I would go to the meta ads library where Facebook will show you exactly what ads are running on their platform. And I would try to find their ads. And how are they performing? Which ad has been running the longest?

On meta ads library, you can filter by how long an ad has been running. So let's say they have 12 ads running. One of them started in October. The rest started in January. I would go to the one in October. And then I would say, okay, they're using this product source from Alibaba. It costs about $4. They're selling it for $25.

They're using this Facebook ad to sell them. I would then spend some time learning Facebook ads well enough to do that. If they had a video ad, I would use a video ad. If they had a title that referenced the affordability of the product, I would reference the affordability of the product. What I would not do is copy paste. I would not copy the transcript of the video. I would not copy the title exactly.

I would not copy the colors, the branding, the logo. I would make it my own, but not so much to where I would like drastically change something strategic about it, like the price point. But that just kind of sounds like drop shipping. Like you're able to just copy a drop shipping store. Well, in the case of that specific idea. So let's hone in on something else, like some sort of service-based job. Like you mentioned pressure washing. We could do that, mobile detailing, you know, mobile mechanic.

Yeah. Let's say you want to, a big one I'm seeing online right now is people become, quote, unquote, contractors, and they find a bunch of subcontractors, and then they take a spread between what they bid and what they end up paying their subcontractors. So let's say something like that. Yeah, they call that drop servicing. Okay. Right? Same principle. So let's say I had a friend that was doing drop servicing for gutter cleaning business. And I can see on Thumbtack, which is a platform for getting home service. leads that he's listed there. And on Angie's list and on home advisor, he's listed there. I would go list there as well. I can see his price points are, let's say it's $150 an hour. I would be right in that ballpark. I can see that he's targeting 30 to 50 year old moms in certain neighborhoods. I would target similar neighborhoods, not his neighborhoods, but neighborhoods in my area that meet a very similar demographic. The distribution strategy and the pricing slash offer is everything. Aside from that, name of the business, the URL, it doesn't really matter as much.

And how important is it that you enjoy what you're doing? It's very important that you do that long term because no one wants a miserable life. But if you focus on passion and enjoyment from the outset, you probably won't find anything that you like. So the Ikegai principle is a Venn diagram of find what you love, find what gives you energy, find what people will pay you for, and find what there's a demand for. wherever that overlaps the most is where you should be. But if you don't love it yet,

feel free to sacrifice that one in the beginning. What's a business idea that sounds really boring, but works really well? AI consulting is exploding right now. There are 800,000 management consultants in the United States right now, and I think in five to 10 years, there's going to be at least 800,000 AI consultants. Someone that just takes time on their own

to learn these $30-a-month tools and implements them into small to large businesses. That's kind of boring, but people pay a lot of money. So what does that look like to implement it into small to large businesses? So that would look like, let's just say, practically speaking, my air conditioning goes out. And the guy comes over, it's a one-man shop. Most air conditioning business owners are one-man shops. It's the owner.

And we just start talking as he's fixing my unit. How long have you been in business? 35 years. Awesome. Like, are you doing anything with AI? Uh, no. I've heard about chat GPT. Okay, well, what happens when you get a lead?

Well, someone calls my phone. What happens if they call your phone at 9 p.m.? Well, I'm not answered at 9 p.m. I'm watching Netflix with my wife. Okay, well, have you heard of AI voice agents? No, is that like a call center? No, it's like with a few clicks, you can have AI answer your phone.

80% of people don't know it's AI, and it works 24-7. It costs almost nothing, and they'll just take the person's information and say, hey, thank you so much. We'll call you at 9.30 a.m. tomorrow. You integrate it with your calendar, and you don't lose a $3,000 job,

but you don't have to answer the phone during Netflix either. And that will blow their minds, that that technology is possible, that the delay on the phone is very, very short. It sounds real, and people legitimately don't know it's AI. And if you tell them, they don't care, because they just want their problem answered. And if AI can do that,

and they're not just getting a voicemail, they would prefer that. to a voicemail. This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So Graham and I just wrapped up a trip. We were in Austin for a few days. We filmed episodes with Togi, Chris Camillo, and Caleb Hammer. And honestly, every time we're on the road, we're staying at homes on Airbnb, it's just become the default. And here's the thing most people don't think about. When you're the one traveling, your place back home is just sitting there empty. And that's a real missed opportunity. Whether you're gone for a long weekend or a few weeks, you can list your space on Airbnb

and let it work for you while you're away. If you've ever thought about hosting, but weren't sure how to manage everything from the road. Airbnb now has the co-host network. You can connect with a vetted local co-host who has real hosting experience and can take care of the day-to-day for you. A co-host can manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on-site support so you don't have to think about it while you're traveling. So instead of your home sitting empty, you could be generating some extra cash, whether that helps you cover the next trip, your flights, or just goes towards something that you've been putting off at home. I actually listed a spare room in my house on Airbnb, and I was genuinely so surprised how, you know,

easy it was to set up, how seamless the entire process was, and it actually made me some pretty good money. I would actually recommend this to anyone out there that wants to make a little extra cash on the side. It's honestly phenomenal. If you're thinking about hosting but want some help getting started, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Really quick, when Jack and I started the ice coffee hour, we had to figure out everything ourselves, from the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to grow on social media. Every day was a new challenge. That's why if you're building something yourself, you totally get it. And that's also why our sponsor sponsor, Shopify makes so much sense.

Shopify is basically an all-in-one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide from major brands like Mattel and Jim Shark to entrepreneurs who are just getting started. And here's something crazy. If you think you haven't used Shopify, I am willing to bet you that you're wrong because if you've shopped in the United States, there's a really good chance. It was actually on a Shopify store because they power about 10% of all American e-commerce. What's really great about Shopify is that they give you access to a complete design studio

with hundreds of ready-to-use templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. There's no coding needed. And through AI tools, even help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photos. Shopify also makes marketing extremely simple with easy-to-use email and social media campaigns, help you connect with customers wherever they are. And on top of that, I kid you not, they manage everything from inventory to shipping and returns so you can avoid all of the complicated stuff that you do not want to deal with. So start your business today with the industry's best business partner,

and start hearing all you got to do to get started is sign up today for a $1 a month trial period when you go to Shopify.com slash ICH. Again, that is Shopify.com slash ICH. Shopify.com slash ICH. The link is also down below in the description. Thank you so much to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. How do you manage all of these things? I imagine your time is pretty scarce if you have, you know, 10 companies right now that you're partnered in or running or some what have an executive in?

How do you divide up your time? Do you have an assistant? So I have two assistants, and I have a chief of staff that is kind of like the CEO for me, for all of my things, and he's awesome, and he just manages all kinds of initiatives. And then at every business,

I have an operating partner that runs the business. And they'll meet with me, they'll talk to me periodically, to talk strategy and whatnot, put out fires. But generally speaking, I just have a lot of equity partners in these businesses that do a really good job. At what point in your life was it worth it to hire an assistant?

Not until a few years ago. And what made you decide that it made sense then? Because I was just spending too much of my time on stupid things. Just low, low value emails, things that didn't require much of my skills or expertise. Just to free up your time to do other things. Yeah. What's a common side hustle that you think is not worth it? Cutting lawns.

If you're going to go outside and push a lawn mow around, then do something that's much higher ticket, something that's worth thousands of dollars, like tree trimming or pressure washing. But lawn mowing, I think, is just, it's a waste of it's $40 to mow along. And you can spend the same time washing a window and get $400. And what do you say to the people who say that they don't have the time? Everyone has the time. I have four kids. I had all four of my kids in my 20s. I've run multiple businesses at a time since I was 21. I am active in my church. There's always time. If they say I don't have time, I say, show me your screen time on your iPhone. Let's look at that real quick. Let's break it down. Is that where you think people are

wasting the most of time? 100%. Everyone has time, period. So then what's the limiting factor? Is it just like motivation? Is it energy? Is it hunger? They're not desperate enough. Like, they don't want it enough. If they want enough, they would do it. So is being broke a mindset problem? Mindset and skills are everything. They don't have the skills or they don't think they have the skills. They're not connecting the skills. Let's say they want to start a pressure washing business. And they enjoy it. They do it themselves and they enjoy it.

But they're like, where do we even go? Where do I find a customer? And then an hour later, they're on Facebook Marketplace selling their old Xbox. Where do I go? It's like you have the skills. You're Facebook Marketplace, right? Or then they go on Instagram and they post a couple reels about their food or whatever. That skill.

You can use that to sell pressure washing. They're not connecting the skills with the ideas. So we need to just sit down on paper and write down everything we do. We need to audit our time in a day. I spent this time scrolling reels, this time scrolling TikToks, this time working, this time going to the bathroom, this time listing on Facebook marketplace. And then we need to, after a week, we need to look back at everything we've done and see if we can tie our business idea to one of those things, something that we already do or already

know how to do. Is there a way that you can improve hunger? Yeah, like how can you develop that? Yeah, because some people want something 35%. And let's say it takes 80% hunger to actually cross that line to take action and make something happen. But if you're at 35%, you're still just constantly at like low grade dissatisfaction with your life. Because you have this like kind of thing, just always talking to you in the back of your brain saying, hey, you could do more. But also you're like, well, you know, I don't really want to try that hard to do more.

It's like you're dissatisfied. You're not happy necessarily. You could be happier. If they wanted to want it more, which I imagine, I know it's a weird thing to say, a lot of people probably feel that way. How can you do that? The pain of what people think about you needs to be lesser than the pain of being broke. Because I do think that's the number one thing. What do people think about me when I do this thing?

They need to care less about that than they care about being broke or vice versa. so however it goes. But I think in a situation like that, I think most people are at that stage where they want to do something, but their job is just good enough. The worst situation we can be in is when our job is just good enough to cover our bills. If they were to get a 50% cut, then that could be the best thing that ever happened to them. Or if they were to be fired, that could be the best thing that ever happened to them. Or if they could get a 300% promotion, that could be the best thing that ever happened to them. But like you said, to be in that like just enough paycheck to paycheck, that's the worst because it's just enough for us to get by and for us to not be hungry enough.

So I don't want to go on the record and suggest that everyone quits their job. But sometimes when the boats are burned for us, we talk about the metaphor of burning your boats, not looking back. No plan B. When that choice is taken from us, it can be the best thing that ever happens to us. How much do you think that's the situation that they're in versus that's just who they are as a person? Like even if they were to get fired in that case. They would just seek out the same thing. Yeah.

How do you fix human nature? How much of that do you think people are just born like that? Yeah. Well, I don't think I was born like that. I think that my mission gave that to me. I think if you were to work in a call center doing outbound miserable cold calls for some diet pill, I think that could develop the same skill. I think if we really want a tactical answer to give people, they need to go do sales.

And just know you're not going to like it. Like the person that really likes sales is just a freak. They exist, of course. And they're very wealthy. But it's not normal. Go do sales. Outbound. What I always attributed to when I was like 18 and I was super, super, super hungry, like

I really wanted to pursue business, be an entrepreneur, make some money. I always thought that I had a high capacity. I'm like, okay, like, I know if I put my mind to something, then I can achieve a good amount. But the reality of my life was not exhibiting that. And so I was like, okay, like, I'm either delusional or I just haven't hit my stride yet. And so that was enough motivation for me to be like,

okay, like I need to hit this capacity, even though at the time when I first reached out to Graham, when I was trying all these different side businesses, there were a few random ones that I tried drop shipping. You can name it. I've tried every single one of them. I was kind of in a place where I was relatively comfortable. Like I was, like the outer layer of my life would suggest I was living well.

Like I was living at my parents. I was going to community college, getting great grades. I was working at a restaurant, you know, making enough money to get by and buy some things I wanted because I had no rent. So like my life by most means was pretty good. It was just the fact that there was like a big difference between where I thought I should be and where, you know, I thought that I was at. Why did you think you had that capacity? Why did you have that confidence in yourself? If you, I mean, this is kind of a, maybe a poor answer to the question,

but I think if you have a high capacity, you kind of know you do. Did you grow up around people with money? Sort of. Like, I would say that when I grew up, I thought, actually, that we were like a low middle income, just because we never went on any trips. We lived super, super below our means. Like, I had, you know, six cars by the time I was like 22 because it just kept breaking down. We had to sell them.

So I thought we were low middle, but like turns out we're like, you know, upper middle class, I would say by the time I moved out. We also grew up in a really old home, like a 60-year-old home. So I would, there were some distant relatives that were successful. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I want to be like them. You know, I want to be like the successful people in the family. You saw it was possible. I saw it was possible.

Yeah, like my uncle had a really nice car. Yeah. And I was like, okay. So I want to, yeah. I want to get this nice car. You know, because, you know, my parents were driving old cars. or the car that, you know, the first car I got was, you know, blown out speakers and just horrible cars.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think people need to spend more time around people with money. We're spending time around people that are like us. And so we're going to end up like people like us, people that we spend time with. But you and I both, like middle class, lower middle class, we saw wealth. We saw that it was possible. Do you worry that your kids, though, are going to grow up in an environment where they don't

need to be as hungry as you did? I worry about it every day. And I don't know what to do about it. Do I go, you know, move to Compton so they can appreciate it? The answer is yes. Like, seriously, what do you do about it? It's something we think about regularly. We do service opportunities like around Christmas.

We go, like, you know, homeless shelters. Like, I try to get them engaged and, like, do things for other people. It seems like the only thing that I've noticed that works consistently from everyone that we've had on the podcast with kids is that they integrate the kids in their business, and they have the kids work. Yeah. Especially anything sales-related, but in the business itself. Yeah.

So not so much chores, but it's like, hey, you're coming to work with me today and you're going to talk to these customers and you're going to get a sale. Yeah. And then tying that to some sort of reward that they get. My kids all do little businesses. We have a farmer's market nearby.

They'll sell s'mores. They'll sell cookies. They'll sell. My daughter sells custom hats. So, and then they do chores at home, like hard chores. But I'm not really good lately about bringing them to work with me because I work on a MacBook. You know, like, if I had like a physical hands-on thing, it'd be easier.

And I did when they were younger, but it wasn't rightful then. Between 9 and 15. See, but the 15-year-old could come and listen in on the podcast. Yeah. And then you could say, hey, 15-year-old, come up here. You're going to be talking about what it's like to grow up with me as a father. Yeah, that is true. And then have him or her start practicing, speaking.

Yeah. That's a good point. Because I see the lack of confidence in some of my kids sometimes, and I wish I could just give it to them. How much do you make from coming on a podcast like this? Is there any sort of like trickle-down effect that you could attribute? Yeah, it depends. It depends on the podcast.

I've never, it certainly brings, like, more followers and subscribers, newsletter subscribers. My newsletter subscribers are worth like $6 to $8 each. That's a lot. So that could, yeah, if I got 500 subscribers from it, it'd be thousands of dollars. But it's more of just like a halo effect. And what's the benefit you hope to get from that halo effect of just more eyeballs on you? Yeah, I get asked that a lot.

Like, what's your goal? Yeah. Like, what are you working towards? And I just want progress. Like, I just want growth, whatever that looks like. I don't set. I'm not good at setting goals. How do you measure growth, though?

Is it just like money and money out? Just like number of newsletter subscribers, number of followers, number of YouTube. subscribers and financial. Yeah, like more profit one year than the year before. I'm just not good at setting goals. Will there ever be a time where you're like, okay, like I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at? I think at a certain point within five years, I'm just going to get off the internet entirely. And what will dictate, you know, where is that line? I don't know. I don't know where that is. It's just something I think about every day, chasing metrics and refreshing YouTube studio and all that. You guys know. Are you happy with it? I enjoy making content.

I look at every video like a new business, right? A new initiative. I do enjoy it, but it comes with a tradeoff. There are no solutions, only trade-off. See, I relate to that, but the only thing I relate to the most is I can't turn my mind off. It's constantly going. And so the only way it could zone out, honestly, is either watching a movie I'm really into, at a movie theater, because otherwise I have my phone and I get distracted,

or getting massage, oddly enough. It's only two times I could actually zone out and just be present. Same. Otherwise, it's all like, what's the next video? And I just posted this morning, but the first thing through my mind is how is it performing? And then what's the next one? How do I follow this up? Yeah.

But, I mean, that's also life. Like, that's the growth and progress is everything. Like, we're meant to work. We're built to work. There's no retirement. So what would you say is the question that a viewer needs to ask themselves, right now to make progress. Am I willing to go and get rejected enough times

so I can achieve my goals? Am I willing to do what it takes to embarrass myself and to experience failure in order to achieve my goals? Or am I not there yet? And they need to be honest with themselves and answer it truthfully and then hopefully come to a positive conclusion.

Yes. So we've drafted up a list of businesses. And we want you to assign them in a tier list, if you wouldn't mind. Oh, yeah. So right here, we have a tier list of a bunch of different business ideas. If you can just rank them from S all the way down to the bottom. So if someone has an idea, and they're watching right now, you can see, is it a good idea, is a bad idea? Should I pursue it? Should I not? All right. First one is AI implementation. We're going to start with an S tier because it's very approachable. Anyone with, you don't even need any money, you can use free trials for all of these AI tools.

Everyone knows business owners. So 10% of all adults are a business owner. So you can say, hey, I learned how to Vi-Code this app. I use Zapier to learn how to connect these two tools. Do you mind if I try it with you for free? That can scale. You can charge thousands of dollars up front and then hundreds of dollars up ongoing every month for each and every customer you acquire.

Cool. So it just becomes a numbers game. That is one of my favorite ideas right now. ATMs, second. I'm going to put that as a B tier. So I love ideas that are approachable because I want to remove friction to the most amount of people

to starting the business. ATMs, you have to purchase. There's not really a way around that. You could buy them on a credit card. You could borrow money to do it, but they do cost thousands of dollars. I think the trends for us becoming a more cashless society are going up.

I think it's going to take a lot longer than we think we're going to be given out $100 bills in a decade, right? I don't think it's going away overnight. But generally speaking, I like to start businesses that ride a tidal wave. I just want to have an easier time. AI implementation, that is a tidal wave, we would all agree. ATMs are not writing a tidal wave right now.

This business is highly dependent on the location. I'm actually going to move it down to a C. Okay. It's highly dependent on a location. So if we want to learn what type of location we'll do best with an ATM, we're probably going to need to try like five locations, which would require either a lot of time to move that ATM around. or a lot of money to buy five $3,000 ATMs.

But that said, if you can get this to scale, that can be a quite passive, passive income business, right? Which you know I don't just throw that term around. Car detailing, that's going to be a tier. Because it's so approachable. It can scale. It's not easy to scale. I hate the question, can it scale, right?

I hear that. Can that scale? Everything can scale? The right question is how hard is that to scale, right? And how much money will it take to scale it? This is harder to scale, but it's very easy to start. You can go to O'Reilly, you could buy a bucket of stuff, you could start card detailing. You can make $100 an hour on your first day.

Next one, content creation. That's going to be D. It's going to be D tier. There is survivorship bias, right? The only people we see in our feed are successful content creators because that's who the algorithm shows us. So it seems much more approachable than it actually is. Now, I truly believe that, like, you can crack the algorithm. You can figure out how to do short-form video.

I think short-form video is one of the greatest, greatest, most innovative things ever invented. You could definitely argue it's harmful. I'm not saying it's not. But it's just brilliant how it works, right? But it is very, very hard to crack the code as a content creator, because you need quality and consistency over a long period of time, and very few people are willing to do that.

And once you do that, the chance of you actually making money on that is very small. So that's a D. Couch flipping. I'm going to call that, oh, man, I really like couch flipping. So what I don't like about it is there is some level of friction here because you need a trailer, either to buy one or rent one, and you need a hitch. You need a car with a hitch or a truck with a hitch. So there's some friction there. But this is a business that could be 100% ran on.

on Facebook marketplace. You find your couches to buy on Facebook marketplace. You find them to sell on Facebook marketplace. And it's a very good business and it can scale. Day trading, oh man, that's got to be F. Back to survivorship bias. The only people we see out in public that are successful at day trading are the people

selling courses on day trading. And therefore their incentives are not aligned with the buyer of that course, right? The chance of someone being successful in day trading is very low. and the chance of them losing money is very, very high. It's an asymmetric bet in the wrong direction. Dog walking?

I'm going to say C tier because it's harder to acquire customers in the dog walking business. I like that it's recurring, but it's hard to acquire customers, and it might be one of the hardest to scale out of all of these. Yeah, because how many dogs can you walk at once? and then how profitable can you be if you hire someone out to walk those dogs for you? I like to look for businesses that have a binary outcome.

Simple business, right? Like, my tree trimming business is very simple. We show up, we cut the tree, we get a five-star review, we get paid. Whereas a house cleaning business, you show up, are they home, does the door code work? Did they leave a hair on the toilet seat?

There's a thousand things that could go wrong. The cleaner doesn't show up, the cleaner arrives drunk, like, it's just a very hard business. And I've had a cleaning business as well. And they've arrived drunk? Oh, yeah. Because they're all subcontractors. They're 1099.

I've seen it all. So dog walking is not my favorite because there's a lot of things that could go wrong. Yeah. And it's just the upside is not very high. Okay. DoorDash Uber Eats. I'm going to call that a B. I'll be our first B tier.

I love how approachable it is. but it's a lot more wear on the vehicle than people would think. People certainly more than they would like to think. It's a low ceiling, right? It's hard to make six figures a year of profit, like true profit when considering all of your cost in DoorDash or Uber Eats.

I think the bigger opportunity in that business is to buy and rent out cars to people that drive and deliver for. Toro. Kind of, but there's a whole business, The whole industry is called, it's called Cars for DoorDash. Like, that's the name of the industry. Really?

Because DoorDash is the only ride-sharing company that does not care what the cars look like. They don't need to care. You're just delivering food. You're not taking anyone on rides. So their liability requirements are lower, and the car, like, year and, you know, cosmetic requirements are lower. So there's a whole industry of people that go buy $5,000 Honda's and rent them out for $400 a week to people that drive for DoorDash.

And so they make their money back in three to six months, and it's pure profit after that. Not saying it's easy. Yeah. There's liabilities. There's, you're working with people that speak different languages. There's a lot of crazy things that happen in that industry. But I like that side of it better than me going out and delivering food for DoorDash. Interesting.

Yeah. Facebook Marketplace, I'm going to put this as S-tier, believe it or not. Because that could be so many different things. I love just clearing my cash in a browser, opening Facebook Marketplace, and seeing what it shows me. That's what I like doing too. I probably spend an hour a day on Facebook Marketplace, just browsing and looking.

It's so interesting. You'll see like a converted school bus. It's just a great playground to generate business ideas. Garage sales, I'm going to put at... Now, do you mean, like, flipping items from garage sales? the garage sale hunting. I'm going to put that at C because it's just like, I don't like businesses that I can't just like grab a hold of

and scale it if I wanted to. There are only so many garage sales. You don't know what they will have. Whereas with like Facebook Marketplace, I could buy as many things as I wanted. I could scale that with just a few more clicks and a few more dollars. But with garage sales, it's wholly dependent on,

there's a lot of luck involved. Am I going to find like a first edition Charzard here? Or is it going to be just a bunch of, crappy mirrors and dressers. I just don't like that about it. It's harder to scale and there's less upside, but I do like the fact that anyone could go do it with $100. I do like how approachable it is.

I kind of want to put it, I'm going to move it to B. I'm talking myself into it a little bit. I do love Gary V, too. So online tutoring, I'm going to put that at an A tier because there are so many marketplaces that will find customers for you. Upwork, you can just post your services and tutor people, and you can make $30 to $300 an hour. It's also great for a local area. If you can just find one parent to, so this isn't online, but let's just call it tutoring.

If you can find one parent to pay you to tutor their kid, and you don't totally screw it up, you'll probably have 10 parents within a year. So I really like that business because that doesn't cost anything. And I think there's a lot of demand for that that's not going anywhere. Only fans. That's going to be an easy F for me because of the fact that I am a very Christian and I think is pretty damaging and pretty terrible. And I personally would not start anything in like an illicit category, be it gambling, vaping, anything. Panhandling.

Okay, so you know what? This might surprise people, but I'm going to put that. at a B. Now, let me, let me clarify, are you, is that just like begging for money? Yes. I've seen these YouTube videos where people are reportedly making $60,000 to $100,000 a year. And they're adding up with hidden cameras, like how much they're making in donations. And then they confront the people afterwards of like, hey, you know, you've made X amount this year so far, but you're not reporting any of it.

And you're, you know, driving into a Ferrari. Yeah. Interesting. living in a really nice house and like all this sort of stuff, but they like dressed down to panhandle. Yeah, I saw the one where the person was panhandling as someone who is in a wheelchair, wheelchair now or something. And then they like got out and just walked away.

Okay, so if it weren't for the ethical concerns, this would be an S or an A for me because of the skills that it can build. Because we've talked a lot about humility today and doing hard things and getting rejected over and over. And that sounds a lot like serving a mission, right? I never asked for money, but I was asking for time, which is like money, of strangers, and it's very awkward. It's just awkward. And so I love the skills that this builds, but I don't suggest that people do it unethically or rely about who they are. But if it's like, hey, can you give me $10 so I can go start a business? I would give that person $10. And I applaud that. Don't do that, great. Print on demand, I'm going to put it C.

I think that there's a world where people can make really good money at this, but I look at it like content creation. There's a lot of luck involved, and you need to be fairly sophisticated at testing thousands, if not tens of thousands of patterns and designs and logos. I know a guy that does this very well on Etsy, and he uses AI tools. Just every morning he'll scrape everything that's, selling a lot of on Etsy. Let's say it's a mug with like a cute slogan on it about a puppy.

He would just copy that. And he would just start selling them on his own Etsy page. So there's a world where you can be successful at this. But I think it's very much, it's kind of like the MLM world where 1% of people are successful and 99% of people are still just like struggling trying to make it. So I don't like that about it. Real estate agent, I'm going to put that at an A tier. because of the fact that you will acquire so many different skills in the pursuit of this.

You have, like legally, you have to learn about real estate. You've got to learn how contracts are structured. My wife is a commercial real estate agent. She used to be a residential real estate agent. I've been in this space a lot. I think it's an asymmetric bet. You're spending tens of hours and $1,500 to become licensed. Once you're licensed, there's tons of brokerages that would love to have you under them

because it really costs them nothing. and depending on what market you're in, you can make tens of thousands of dollars for five to 15 hours of work. This also is like a power law game. You know, 5% of agents sell 95% of homes, but I think it's very formulaic to get in that 5%. Yeah.

It's just, it's, you can get there. Whereas with something like print on demand, it's not formulaic. It's, there's a lot of luck and virality and sophisticated skills. involved, but that can scale like it's great money. It's a great thing that you can do on the side, but you could also make it entirely replace your income. Shorts editing. I like this a lot, actually. I'm going to make that an A tier because, so there's a lot of, you know, AI tools that

will edit shorts for you. We probably know about a lot of them where you just upload a long form video. Opus clips. Opus, yes. And I've used Ophys, Yeah, they're great. Yeah, it is great. But with a lot of things AI, in AI, it's not going to be better than a human for years, in my opinion. And because of the fact that short form algorithms are so good, I think there's a lot of demand for good shorts editors. And if you're in a more developed country and you don't want to learn these skills yourself, you can go to Upwork. You can find people in the Philippines or anywhere overseas that will do them very cheaply.

and you can just subcontract out the work. So you could be a shorts editor without actually having the skills. So I really like that business. Solar sales. I'm going to put that as A, because it's sales and it's door to door, and it's hard, and it's a high ticket.

And you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars in three months of knocking doors. And you'll learn resilience, you'll learn rejection, you'll learn sales. I think it's an excellent business. Cool. That's not going anywhere.

I'm so glad I didn't read. these a head of time. Somali daycare fraud. Remove the word fraud. So you know what? Remove the word fraud. Daycare. In Minnesota specifically. Call it daycare and I'm going to put it as a C.

Okay. Because of the fact that you could, like, you could grow virally organically just by like, like the pendulum, right? Right now the pendulum right here is every daycare. here in Minnesota is a fraud and going the opposite direction and having like all kinds of proof that you're not a fraud. You do like profiles on the kids and you show like the water colors on the websites. Like you could, there are so many viral opportunities to grow that business where you would have so much more demand than you could ever take care of. Therefore,

you could charge much more than any other competitor. So. And you get money from the government, which is great. I guess you could, couldn't you? Like, would the government be willing to pay money to Someone who's legitimate, though? That's the question. No, I don't know. There's other ancillary businesses you could run off at, too, like, you know, transportation. Yeah, there you go.

So I'm gonna make that a B, actually. If you remove the word fraud, okay? We're not talking about fraud here. But there's a very, very short window of time where you could make a lot of money being a legitimate daycare in Minnesota right now. And you don't, shoot, maybe you just have a lead gen service for daycares. We're vetted daycares, right?

You go out, you knock on their doors, and you do it, Nick did. And you find out, like, independently verified daycares, and then you just become a lead gen service. That would be a great short, having someone go up to the daycare and be like, yeah, come on in. Surely you've heard about. Yeah, exactly.

I like that a lot. Uber Lyft. So I just got to put that in the same tier as DoorDash and Uber Eats. Because I see, I think you could make, I'll go one up, Because I do think you could scale that a little better. Maybe the Cars for DoorDash idea is kind of more in that category, where you could just have a fleet service and you could just have a fleet of cars. Or like I would even put Turo in there.

I think you can be successful in Turo if you have a very unique offering. But if you have like a Camry, it's very, very hard. Vending machines. So I'm going to put this as a B because it's above 80s. ATMs, because you can buy vending machines cheaper than ATMs in a lot of cases, and it's easier to find a place to put a vending machine than it is to find a place to put an ATM. I think there's more demand for Doritos and Gatorades than for getting cash on the spot. Yeah, I just like a little more than ATMs because it's more approachable.

You don't have the liability of large sums of money of cash, but it's like it's a power law game, If you place 20 machines, 15 of them will make one or 200 bucks a month. And five will make 800 to 1,200 a month. It's just a hard time finding where to put those five. Window washing, I'm going to put this as an A because like solar sales, it teaches you great skills. You can be in business for 20 bucks. And you learn people skills. You learn rejection.

you can make six figures a year doing it. Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. As someone who has a very well-balanced life, being a successful entrepreneur, a business owner, what you do is you problem-solve. I'm sure you've problem-solved many different aspects of your life. If you're to give a piece of well-rounded advice to the viewer right now, what would it be?

It would be to just do things. Don't focus on the outcome. Just do things that are unconventional, if for nothing else for this story or for doing something that was uncomventional. We just laid my grandmother to rest, and she was a great example of just doing things. One time at a funeral, they asked her to say the closing prayer,

and she wanted to pay tribute to my cousin more than that. And so for weeks, she practiced singing the song, and before she said the prayer, she just started singing into the microphone. Everyone's like, what is her grandma doing? She's going off the rails, but she didn't care. She just did it. And one time we were in New York driving, and we got up to these toll booths,

and she didn't have any cash. We had no way of getting in this toll booth. This was like in the late 90s. And she got out and she started knocking on windows of the cars in front of us in line asking for cash. And she didn't think any of it. She wasn't embarrassed. And she just did it.

She just made it happen. She always just made it happen. And there's a phrase out there. I don't know if C&LT started or what, but you can just do things. And people should just do things. Like if they have a question about like, what if I have this?

What if I tried? Like, just do it. Just test it. Just try it. Assuming that the risk isn't too great, you will just have a much more rich and rewarding life, and you'll have stories, you'll be interesting, like good things will happen to you.

You will have a lot of surface area for luck if you just go out there and chase your curiosities. I love that. That's great. Thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate it. We'll link to all of your information down below in the description. Thank you.

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