The Iced Coffee Hour - The Harsh Reality Of Child Acting | Devon Werkheiser (Ned's Declassified)

Episode Date: June 18, 2023

Use code ICEDCOFFEE for 10% off your first Unbound Merino purchase at https://shrsl.com/43uwv Start creating high-quality content easily with Streamyard: https://clickurl.ca/ICH-streamyard NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselbyhttps://www.instagram.com/gpstephanhttps://www.instagram.com/alex_nava_photography Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] GET YOUR FREE STOCK WORTH UP TO $1000 WITH OUR SPONSOR PUBLIC - USE CODE GRAHAM: http://www.public.com/graham TIMESTAMPS: (00:02:32) - Early Career Success (00:07:22) - School As A Child Actor (00:09:46) - Landing The Role Of Ned (00:14:26) - Devon's Pay For Playing Ned (00:19:44) - Hands-On Parents (00:23:26) - Can Guys And Girls Be Friends (00:25:36) - Friends With Your Ex's (00:28:47) - Current Dating Life (00:32:14) - Is Hopeless Romance Real? (00:43:09) - Devon's Music Career (00:45:56) - Skrillex's Comeback (00:47:30) - Getting Caked By Steve Aoki (00:51:02) - Graham's Need To "Live A Little" (00:52:54) - Psychedelic Benefits MY NEW COFFEE IS NOW FOR SALE: http://www.bankrollcoffee.com/ The Equipment used: https://tinyurl.com/y78py5g2 Audio Equipment Used In Podcast: Shure SM7B mics, cloud lifters, rodecaster pro audio interface The YouTube Creator Academy: Learn EXACTLY how to get your first 1000 subscribers on YouTube, rank videos on the front page of searches, grow your following, and turn that into another income source: https://bit.ly/2STxofv $100 OFF WITH CODE 100OFF For Podcast Inquiries, please contact [e-mail] *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So if you're a 90s kid like me, you're probably seen Devin Warheiser. He starred as Ned in the hit Nickelodeon show, Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide. He's worked throughout a series of TV shows and movies throughout the 2010s. And today, he's revealing the dark side of child acting that most people don't hear about. There was no air conditioning. It was a warehouse. We're there to shoot a show 12 hours a day under hot lights. He's also opening up about how much money he made, how much money he spent, and how he wound up completely broke.

So these are the good, the bad, and the horror stories of Nickelodeon stars. as soon as you subscribe and hit the like button for the YouTube algorithm. Why are you laughing, Jay? It's just funny. It works. Before you go into that, if you follow our Instagrams, I'm sure you're aware that Graham and I have been traveling nonstop. And when you're traveling, packing can be an absolute nightmare.

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career after it would be nothing but uphill. And Jack, come on. I'm sorry. I really, and it's a FaceTime, really? You can't silence a computer. You got to put that on Do Not Deskirts. It's okay. I am so strong. I'm usually great. Yeah, exactly. If you're watching this man, Come on. It was Sean. Yeah. Sean, you fucking blew it, man. Okay. All right, let's get back to it.

I'm so sorry. Oh, no, it's okay. There's a couple remnants of my childhood ego that I struggle with. Then one of them is that I booked my own show. I was the lead on my own show. And so I knew 100% like I am meant to do and be great in this industry that I love. Like, I'm meant to be in movies that are great. I'm meant to be in more shows that are great.

And I still haven't done anything as big as Neds. And that is some weird thing to reckon with that continues to humble me. In good ways, I think. Like, I like who I am. I think my character is developed. But I still have this part of me that, like, is like, no, no. I'm, like, I'm meant to be on all the things. I'm supposed to be in this.

industry like and I caught it at such a young age for me it was supposed to continue forever and it hasn't um but I'm still going to do it for the rest of my life let's go back how did you get started in acting uh I was just a little ham I was just a little it was just a kid who loved attention and loved being funny I just like loved movies and my parents saw it and they were like hmm do you want to do community theater or something do you want to do you want to do something with this. Like I watched Austin Powers and Ace Ventura. Yeah. And I would just recite them at like six years old.

I used to have a photographic memory kind of. Like I would see a movie and just be able to recite most of it. And my parents were like, yeah, that's not normal. Do you want to do theater? And I was like, yeah. And then did theater for a while. And the theater people were like, do you want to audition for commercials, movies, TV? And I was like, yeah, and did that. And then that led to L.A. And that led to Neds. And what do you mean that led to L.A.? So you didn't grow up in L.A., correct?

No, I grew up in Georgia, suburbs of, suburbs of Atlanta, which is now a big entertainment town. Yeah. It's like East Hollywood now. But it wasn't then. It was a right-to-work state then,

which meant non-union. And so if the union isn't there, like only non-union projects are filming there, which is like cheap and smaller independent stuff. So when I was there, there wasn't a lot of work there, but that's where I live. So that's where I was auditioning.

And I booked a small role in a movie called We Were Soldiers. It was a Mel Gibson film. How did you book that? That was just casting out of there. Really? Did you know going in it was going to be like a Mel Gibson film? Oh yeah, yeah. You did. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that was just through my agents out there. I was a kid. I was just going and doing it. Like, how old were you? 10? 10. 9. And that would have been Mel Gibson was like at his peak at that time.

Oh, peak. Oh, prime. Yeah. We Were Soldiers was, it was, it's a great film. Yeah. And he was making it with Randall Wallace who wrote Braveheart with him. Oh, right. Yeah. It was like, and huge cast. And they were casting his kids out of Georgia because they were shooting in Fort Benning, Georgia. So book that. Small role, big movie. And that led my Atlanta agents to ask, like, do you want to go to L.A. for pilot season? Like, we think you should. We have a connection with an agent out there. And yeah, man. What did that look like? Was that Ned's declassified? Or not yet? That, no, my first pilot season was just auditions. I did like an independent movie and some things. And then my second pilot season was Nets. And how did that work? Were you just flying back and forth between Georgia, L.A.?

Yep, yep. Yes, it was me and my mom. My dad and sister would stay in Georgia. Pilot season used to be this thing in L.A. That it's not anymore. Pilot season used to be the time of the year when most auditions were happening, when most pilots were being cast, most new shows.

There was a season of it. It was January to like April. And that was the time for auditions And then like a little bit in September So people from all over the country That would be the time You'd come and you'd come for those four months And that would be when you would hit all the auditions

And then go back to wherever the hell you came from Nowadays it's not that with streaming Everything's all the time But yeah so we'd come out for four months And then go back to Georgia And then come back out booked Ned's shot that What we did for school by the way at that time.

So during Neds, I was homeschooled six months of the year while we shot Neds, and I was back in my public middle school in Georgia. So you were actual middle schooler while you were shooting Nets. And I was the same age I was on the show. So Ned was in sixth grade. I was in sixth grade. I was in sixth grade. I was in eighth.

What? Yeah. How was that? Were the people in your school being like, yo, only for like a moment when I would first get there. And then you're just like in school. You know, like kids, the novelty like wears off. very quickly and then you're just another student, you know, and people are judging you not based

on that, but on like, do I like this person or not? Like, you know, do we have connection or not? And I think that, like, I had a really good version of the child acting industry and I think that was part of it was I'd come out here and do L.A. and then I'd go back and live, like, the life that I grew up in with my friends in my hometown in public school for half the year. And I think that was like a nice balance of both. It would really ground me to go back home. Um, so that ego thing like was less in play. Yeah, that sounds smart. And also while you were in middle school, since you were also playing the same, obviously in the moot or in the show, uh, did you ever have experiences in middle school where you're like, hmm, I could pitch this because this is a funny like thing that

occurred? No, it's like, it's on the writers, man. Like they have a whole team of writers who have lived a lot of life and are very funny people. And, and they had it. Um, for me, it was more just get excited to see what they were writing for us because Ned's was so funny and so zany and we always got to do crazy shit. I mean, the show was a blast. It was basically a cartoon that we filmed with real people, but the size of the jokes and the size of the world was cartoon. So, yeah, it was more just exciting every table read and every season seeing what we got to do. I mean, even going through the rewatch pod now, I haven't watched these episodes and so. long and now I'm watching through them. And even in the first season, like, the amount of, like,

gags were doing and, like, stunts and I'm in, like, a giant beach ball and we have, like, this mop bucket slingshot thing. And, like, everything's just so off the wall. It was always great getting episodes, like, always great seeing what the new jokes were going to be. So how did you land Ned's? It was a normal audition process. You know, I had an agent. They sent the audition and then there's like a round there's series of auditions you go to the first read with the casting director then you go to the next read with maybe a producer or two the creator uh from there they're starting to pick favorites for each role and trying to do a chemistry read they're trying to blend different actors and read them in different uh groupings to try and see who who is the

role you know so it was a series of them so we had we had ned's the pilot got cast in waited a year to find out if it was getting picked up. We found out a year later, hey, congratulations. It's going to series. But one of the three cast members is going to get recast for a diversity hire because we had three white kids in the pilot. And one of you are going to be recast. And so you have to come in an audition one last time.

Wow. After we made the pilot. Yeah, after booking the pilot, waiting to hear if it goes to series. Like, our dreams are on the line for this thing. And it was like this bittersweet, crazy phone call. Congratulations, it's going. But also, hold on tight because you have to audition again. And we're going to have to wait to hear.

How did you prepare for that? That was more just like mental shit. It was like, I already know what I'm doing in there. Like, it's going to be the same scenes that I auditioned with already five times and filmed in the pilot. Like, we're going to do the same scenes that booked me the role. It was about just owning what I already did and not siking myself out. Just owning like, no, like I already booked this role. Do what I do.

Be comfortable and just do it. So when you film for a pilot, do you know which network it's going to be at that time? Yeah, this is. So you knew already it was going to be like this is for Nickelodeon. Sometimes people do it kind of independent and then are going to sell it. But most of the time, the studios who's funding, the pilot. They've been pitched the pilot and they're like, yeah, we're going to make this and then we'll see. We'll test it and we'll see if we want to make it. So we knew it was Nick.

Were you a fan of Nickelodeon at that time? Yeah, of course. It was more of the cartoons at the time, but I guess, you know, I had watched so much Nickelodeon. It's all I watched yet. All that. Yeah. Eon and Kell is my favorite. Peanut and Kell. Arnold. Uh, Pete and Pete and Pete. Oh, Pete and Pete and Pete. Oh my gosh. Nickelodeon. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about that show. I'd watch all of that. I loved, I loved Nickelodeon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's fire to be on it.

That's so cool. Yeah. But first, you want to thank today's sponsor is StreamYard. Streamyard is a live streaming software that allows you to create high quality content with the click of a button. All you need is a camera and an internet connection to be able to stream directly from your browser. And one of my personal favorite features is that they allow you to multi-stream, which basically means that you can stream to Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and more all at the same time. I also really enjoy that Streamyard offers various analytic tools so that you can measure the success of every single one of your live streams,

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So it would mean a lot if you check them out with a link down below in the description. Thank you so much, Streamyard, and back to the podcast. It was also my second pilot season in L, So it honestly, man, I hit, I don't know if you've ever read, what's that book, The Alchemist. It's like, I think I did in high school. Yeah, it's like an allegory for, you know, following your pursuit in life. Right. But there's like a part where he talks about beginner's luck, kind of being life showing you like grace early on to say yes, pursue this thing.

And then you'll meet your challenges. but like a little bit of beginners luck is like, hey, yeah, here you go. Here's a little grace starting out. The casinos do the same thing, by the way. Exactly. Every single time, I'm like, yo, that's what gets you hooked. You're going to win. That's what gets you hooked, man.

That's kind of what I'm saying is like my second pilot season, I book Neds. And it just felt like, oh, the path is just going to like, this is what I'm doing. This is going to be easy. I'm meant to do this. It's all happening. That is not. That is not always the case. Do you remember what the pay was on like this, that first season?

I don't. But whatever it was, it's less than what any of you think it is. That's what, who was it? It was Josh Patch. Josh said, what, 15K an episode? No, I think that was at the very end. That would have been third season. Exactly.

That would have been the end. He was getting, I think it was $1,500 or $3,000 an episode. He said that it was enough to move. move out on his own to like a one bedroom apartment. But also now he's not getting, I remember he said he wasn't getting royalties anymore, which is really interesting. Because he was on Jason Nash's podcast and Jason is still getting royalties from Drake and Josh.

But Josh wasn't because he was a kid when he was doing it. No, because he was elite. Oh, whoa. No, because he was elite. No, Nickelodeon worked out some crazy deal with AFRA at the time. There's two acting union, SAG and AFRA. They're merged now at SAG AFR. they were split at the time

and I don't believe SAG ever would have let this happen but it was an after show all Nickelodeon shows were AFRA and after I don't know got screwed and sold us out in negotiations with Nickelodeon because they were kind of ruthless and they didn't pay their leads residuals but like guest stars and recurring got residuals because their initial pay was so much much less. The residuals are going to be less. Yeah. No, it does seem insane, doesn't it?

So it was a low amount for the first season. Do you remember at all what it was like in those those final two seasons? No, but somewhere, somewhere up between 10 and 15K makes sense for the final seasons. And that was a big show too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would expect it to be so much more. Nowadays, people are getting paid like 100K an episode of a modern family or whatever. Well, yeah, but that's ABC. That's prime time. That's prime time ABC. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, one's getting that. Like, kid shows were always less. As a kid, it was something, you know.

Yeah, it's not nothing. Um, but the, the fact that it's, like, sold all over the world repeatedly since, and there's no residuals on it is, is just some shrewd business from Nickelodeon. Yeah, you just don't really know what you're signing as a kid. You know what you're getting it. You knew exactly what you were getting into. Yeah, yeah, we knew. I mean, it's not like I didn't have lawyers and parents.

Like, no, we knew exactly what we were signing. They just will not change that. They were like, they were like, they were like alternative saying no. Yeah. I mean, no, literally, they call that bluff. They say, we'll hire someone else. Like in between seasons, we were like, okay, the show's doing well.

Let's renegotiate these residuals. They're like, we'll hire. We'll recast Ned right now. Would they, do you think, looking back, do you think there's no way they could have done that? I feel like there's no way. But you know what, dude, I bet they're ruthless. Dude, they might have. They're like, look, there are thousands of kids across the country who would want to do this.

Yeah. Like, they're savages. It makes sense so because if you did that, that would set precedent where, Everyone else would want to renegotiate. Exactly. And it would be very threatening. Exactly. And also, what, am I going to walk away from my show?

Like, and the opportunity? Absolutely not. Like, they know. Of course I'm not going to. But now, it does seem like Nickelodeon actors are a lot better off afterwards than the Disney Channel actors. It's because we're less famous. Do you think so?

Yeah, I do. Honestly. I do. I think it's because we're less famous. I mean, not all of us Nickelodeon. Apparently, there's a lot of shit coming out. with a lot of Nickelodeonians who had fucked up experiences, man. It breaks my heart to hear.

But no, I honestly think it's because we're less famous. Disney has a better machine. They have a better business. I had imagined Nickelodeon be more like hands-on and like kind. I don't know. I don't know. From like my random perspective, I was feeling like Disney is like.

They feel like that, I think on a corporate level. They feel more that. I don't know. They were fine. It was fine. I had a good overall good experience. on Nickelodeon. But so did a bunch of the Disney kids.

Sure. It really depends on who's running your show. That's where it happens is who's the creator of your show. Who's the show runner of your show? Right. How they are is going to dictate the vast majority of your experience while making the show. Neds was made by a guy named Scott Fellows, who is an incredible human. He's a great family man, hilarious.

guy, his wife produces with him, his kids are on set. Like, it was a blast. Scott's incredible. And, you know, sets are a hierarchy. If your boss is not a good leader and is kind of toxic and kind of project it on people or whatever is unaware of the responsibility they have as a leader, your job's going to be very frustrating. Like, I've worked other jobs than acting. And, man, if a boss has some blind spots or whatever, man, it sucks. Sure.

It sucks. If your boss is a great leader and a great person and actually cares about the people who work for him and making the environment function and connected and open and hardworking, then the experience is going to be great. And yeah, we had that on Ed's. We had a great experience. Hearing from other kid stars come out over the last few years that some of their experiences were less good. So how involved were your parents? and like, you know, you working and making sure like you're doing okay. Super involved.

My mom, especially because she was the one out here with me. My dad was back in Georgia working. Right. And he would come out a lot, but my mom, my mom was on set with me every single day. And my mom is, she's the best. Yeah. She's the best.

And she was always making sure I'm good, what to watch out for. stage mom stage mom is a term it's parents who are aggressively pushy yeah yeah it's parents who want the kids career more than the kid does

and it makes them not trustworthy people to be around it makes them sketchy right like stage moms are sketchy because their motives are a parent and they're aggressive and it's weird my mom was always watching out for that and always making sure I knew what to watch out for

and um she was on like keeping an eye and confronting shit for her kid. What would she be confronting? One example was she reminded me, so first season we filmed at one studio in Hollywood, Sunset Gower, a proper soundstage. Based on the great success of our show, Nickelodeon moved us to some shitty cheap studio out in the valley

that's like a converted warehouse, not a real soundstage. They were going to try and make us film there with no air conditioning. There was no air conditioning. It was a warehouse. And... Oh, those are hard. to heat and cool. I mean, they are.

They're basically exposed to whatever the outside is is the inside of a warehouse. You're right. Yeah. But doesn't fucking matter. Like, we're there to shoot a show 12 hours a day under hot lights in the valley during parts of the summer.

Like, my mom's like, I don't care what it costs or what you, what are you going to do? You're not going to air condition the set. They're like, it's going to cost a lot to bring in, you know, AC and these, these like big, like yellow vents. But you can't even do that while you're filming, right? Don't they have to turn them off for filming? Yeah.

Yeah. for sure. But you need them on when we're not filming. There's plenty of time we're not filming. I didn't realize. My mom was kind of who had to push that because she was like, what do you mean? Did the other parents not get involved to that degree, or was your mom the one? My mom was the one, man. Okay. Yeah, she was the one. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa.

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habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. I imagine it would be bad for the show. Like, you don't want to show up me all sweaty. Yeah, no, it's stupid. Exhausted what you're trying to perform. But you know what, don't they have you wear multiple layers of clothes? Like you would wear a shirt with a jacket and but we'd be, but nah, we'd be sweating, man.

And then our faces, our hair. Yeah, no, it's a dumb idea to not. Ultimately, they had to air-condition it. But I forgot about that whole thing. I forgot, like, we would stand in front of these giant yellow air-conditioning tubes and just, like, yeah. Yeah, it was a thing. But my mom was, like, I forgot how much she was kind of, like, going to bat to make sure everything was okay. And that's what it takes.

Was this her full-time job at that point? For my mom, yeah. Wow. Yeah, man. I mean, she was on set every day. I mean, we're there 10 hours a day. So one thing I was curious about in the show, going back through some of your

podcast, you were in a relationship with Lindsay. How did that come to be? And were the producers worried that like two of the actors were like maybe getting involved and maybe like what if that doesn't work out? No, that's so typical, man. It was the end of the show.

We had worked together three years. In the story, Ned and Moes are coming together that season and Devin and Lindsay off camera we're coming. I mean, it's just... How did that develop though after? Because I feel like you just develop more

of like a friendship. Naturally, man. Naturally. Kids with hormones spending a lot of time together. It was it. It was bound to happen. You think it's hard for guys and girls to be friends?

It can be done. Of course it can. I've got some of my best friends are girls. But keeping it emotionally clean, keeping the space clean, keeping the communication clean, keeping the feelings clean is, you know, it's not always easy. Someone might develop feelings. and if that's incongruent, if it's not reciprocated in the way you want,

navigating that can be difficult. But I don't know. I've got great friends that are girls. It seems like it's easier. Every time they ask questions like this on TikTok, guys and girls be friends, all the girls are like, yeah, we could be friends, but every guy's like, no.

No, no, the girls are like, no, of course we can be friends. And then they ask the guy that's friends with that girl. And they're like, if you couldn't hang out with her in an intimate way, Would you do it? Absolutely. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Yeah. But if you ask girls the same question, almost all of them would be like, no, we're just friends. Right. I think it's possible, but it's hard for both sides to be like on the same wavelength.

That's it. So that's what I think. But it's difficult, yeah. That's why it's tricky. And like I said, again, I have best friends. Like girls I will know for my entire life who I love and cherish

and we have amazing friendships. So of course it's possible. It's doable. And you should not only have, have guy friends if you're a guy and as a girl you should have some dude friends. But it's challenging. You just got to not deceive each other. You got to be really fucking real with yourself and your friends.

And intentional, I guess. Yeah, and intentional and clear about boundaries and clear about talking through things. And like you really have to care for each other's well-being. because yeah, it can just get, can just get messy. I don't know. I don't know that I have more to say on that. I think it's fair. In my experience, it's like, you find a, oh, go ahead.

I have a question for you guys. Sure. Not just, not just being friends with girls, because that's doable, of course. There are challenges, but it's doable. Can you be friends with your exes? Yeah. No. I think so.

I love it. I love it. I just got two answers. Yes. That's what I'm talking. about. Why? Why? No. I think I'd just move on and then mentally it's just, it didn't work out. I have no interest in becoming friends afterwards. I'm sure maybe there might be like something in the very long future of just being cordial. I'd be cordial no matter what, actually. I would never be like,

oh my God, I'd always be friendly. Sure. But not friends. No. No desire. Respect. Like no desire. Respect. Why yes? Well, a lot of the times you'll start out as friends and then you can go two dating and if dating doesn't work out, like that doesn't take away from the fact that you were once friends. So in those situations, I think, I think it's a little easier. Depends on how intimate you got. Yeah, I would agree, but I don't, like, I just don't think that there's one stereotype that you can say and sweep for everything. I agree. Of course, there will always be situations where it's challenging and, of course, there will be situations where it's fine. Yeah. It just depends on the people. For me personally, I like to think I'm the type of guy that could just be, yeah, sure,

let's be friends, whatever. I guess friends is also different than acquaintances and wanting the best out of the person and checking in every once in while, but not like actual like hangout friends. Yeah. Yeah, I think if you want to be friends, you will, right? Anything is possible if you just really want it. Yeah, I think too many people want that and they aren't real about why or the, like, yeah, why, why? I'm more on yours. I agree with you that it's not one size fits all. I am, I'm friends with Lindsay. She was my first love, right? But I do feel, don't you feel like it is different as like a teen? Like this is your kind of first relationship versus something like later.

Absolutely. Like X's in my 20s is different than X-15. But I think too many people immediately go to, well, we'll just be friends then. It's like, it doesn't work like that entirely. I'm more with you where it's like... You got to go no contact. We did our thing. We shared this transformational experience, good or bad.

and we've been not just physically naked with each other, but like spiritually naked with one another. We were intimate. And now it's over and goodbye. Can we ask what happened? What? What happened? With Lindsay?

Yeah. I mean, we're 15. That was never going to work out. Do you know what I mean? But there's still got to be something that happened. I feel like things happened, but like it doesn't matter. It was never going to work out. I feel like you see some stories, though, of people who met in high school.

Very rare. Very rare. Did they really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, they had art class together. But didn't they, did they stay together the whole time?

But they weren't together. I think they had one, they had one break. It might have been when my dad went off to college or something like that. And they got back together like a year later, I think. It was spring break of 94. It was nuts. Yeah. I think that's it, though, yeah.

It's very rare. Very rare. So, yeah, like, things happen. but ultimately we couldn't sustain a relationship. We were two different people who had never loved people before. Sure. And what about dating for you now? What about it?

You got a girlfriend? No. You on the apps? No. Really? Yeah. How do you meet people? How do you meet people without phone, though?

How do you meet people? You don't go in public and meet people, do you? That's nerve-wracking. Yeah, public. What? Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah.

I meet people in the phone. the world and on social media some of the time. Okay, walk us through and, you know, maybe at a coffee shop. No, like, I don't know. So you'd blow up on Tinder. Like, I guess. I was on for a minute during the pandemic. It didn't blow up that much.

I did the apps for the first time over the pandemic because it was the first time I was lonely enough and there was no other option. I was home alone. So I was like, all right, let me do these things. Because the thing was when the apps blew up, I was in a long-term relationship at the time. So when they became the thing that ever, was on, I wasn't dating. And then I was recovering from that. I was heartbroken, so I wasn't

fucking on apps. Pandemic hit, I was lonely enough and there was no other chance to meet someone. So I was like, all right, let me download all these things. Let me see what it's about. I see why people are doing it. I get it. I met some nice people through it. But ultimately, the time spent like scrolling on potential who this person could be me judging based on their photos and like their dumb little like that's not real. I don't even like, I don't even like getting to know someone over text. Like I need to know, like, I can't, text is fun. I keep text very like light usually for a long time.

Like I feel like way too many people are going through a very important part of courtship and getting to know someone over text. Text is, man. That's meant to weed out the creepers. That's all. it is. Like, can you continue a conversation? I don't know, like somewhat normal from their perspective. Yes, I get that. But then you have to get

in person with that. The time with the apps to get to a date that I might know instantly like, oh, this just ain't the vibe. Like, great girl, not the vibe for me. And I wouldn't know it, but now I do. Like, I don't know. I'm just not, it's not for me. So I meet people in person.

How do you do that? You guys are amazing. How do you meet So like, walk us through. So you see somebody like, you're like, you. Yeah, you come here. You can do that. I mean, I don't know.

Like last weekend I was at a show with some friends, at an improv show with some friends. Um, there was a girl there who knew some of my friends. So just throughout the night, we had just had enough passing each other little exchanges. We happened to be walking out of the bar at the same time. And then, um, well, she got my number. but I could have gotten her number and then I did get her number. She asked for your number.

She was proactive. She did, which I love. Did you text her afterwards or you did? Cool. Yep. I love it. I love proactive. Yeah.

I love knowing like, okay, that's a good first step is like, ah, awesome. You, a girl was brave enough to do the thing and not just leave it on the guys. Yeah, she's assertive. She knows she wants. Yeah, I like that. But also I can do it. It's just about like, do you feel a little, vibe or whatever and you just go talk and then if you feel something you say hey can I get your number and it's a little awkward and it's a little but uh you just fucking do it man

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You used to be. Mm-hmm. What changed? Experience. You think it's better not to be? Or it suits you more? I think it's better not to be entirely. Why?

I think romance is amazing and intimacy is beautiful and all of it has a place in our lives. but being a hopeless romantic, idealizing and fantasizing ideas about what your relationship should be and how it should fulfill you, I think is leading so many people wrong. Yeah, I think it's the expectation that you put on another person.

I remember there's someone in high school, and every guy she met was the one. That every single time. And it would last almost always six to eight months, nasty breakup, and then right afterwards, I met the one. That over and over and over again, yeah. That's being a hopeless romantic.

Over committing, maybe. Over committing, not being real. You're in Fantasyland. If you're being a hopeless romantic, you probably watch romantic stories on movies and television, and you actually believe that you want that. They're not real. They're constructed stories between actors.

They're not real. Jim and Pam are not real. Don't say that, man. They're not real. It's too far. Bullshit. It's fun to watch. It's entertaining.

But I think it's actually poisoned to having a real relationship. I would tend to agree with that. There's so many relationships on TVs that I see. I'm like, that would never exist. And I think a lot of it's unhealthy personally. I know. And I think people are really, because media, we relate to it, I think people really aren't aware how much they are adopting the romance, the romantic ideas.

in movies and television and actually putting it and trying to put it on their real life. And it's just not it, man. I did it. I did it. I met someone who I thought was the one. I wanted to marry her. I was the best boyfriend I could be at the time. I played out the best version of like what I thought this romance idea was. And there was a lot of it that was really beautiful.

but where it got me, I learned too much from and I said, hold on, all those things. Like, that's not what's important to me in love. I'm not even sure those things are love. You don't need to build this big grand story. You don't even need the story of the fucking one. Like, I don't need all that.

I don't want all that. It doesn't get you, it doesn't get me where I want to go, which is a healthy relationship with myself and another person, which is healthy boundaries, which is being able to discuss boundaries and respect one another, which is still being open, supportive, romantic at times, intimate, vulnerable. These things are all still included in what I want in partnership. But these fantasies and these conventions that everyone's a part of,

I'm fucking too old for this shit, man. I'm over it. I played it out enough times. I saw it repeated enough times. I've watched it in other people. People just bounce. Oh, yeah, it's our. our da-da anniversary again.

Oh, I've watched you go through like six of these with six different the ones and every person is completing you. Fuck that, man. Like, change how you approach this thing. That's how I just don't approach it the same. I have an aversion to fantasy in relationship now. And not some kinds of fantasy.

You know what I mean? But these fantasies of like, I'm going to complete you and I think people move way too fast at slotting someone into an idea and into a feeling that they've seen on fucking TV. And it's just not it, man. I completely agree. Jack, what do you think?

I agree people shouldn't get into relationships for the sake of being romantic or because they want romance, yes. Get into a relationship because you like the other person. You guys, you know, you think you're good together. Yeah, I would say I mostly agree. But also, like, maybe we have different definitions of hopeless and romantic, like people that are just so romantic and that's what they think about and stuff like that. Like that's fine.

It's just a preference. That's who you are, you know? But of course, don't let that make you make irrational decisions. Yeah, like I'll give an example. Like, like, to me being a hopeless romantic is not about the other per. It's your, it's your filling in like an idea. So I was overhearing, I was overhearing a friend of a friend talk. And he was explaining how he had kind of been talking to this girl.

They hadn't met yet, but they had, they had, they had, I had. I don't know. I guess been linked up through friends and they've been texting and talking over the phone a little bit and kind of, you know, they were starting to be interested in each other. They were going to have their first date. So this guy, probably identifying as a hopeless romantic, sets up this elaborate first date. This fucking picnic on the beach and blindfold and... Blindfold. First date? And tandem bicycle and just like way to... flags. And it didn't go how he wanted it to go. And things are a little awkward with the girl. And I was overhearing this just going like, well, what the fuck are you doing, man? Go get coffee. Relax.

Dude. Romance should come like way, for me, like romance like that should come way into a relationship with someone when you know you show up for each other, when you know you've respected each other, when you've gotten to really know someone, like not just doing a romantic thing on the first date for someone. Like, that's crazy. How to go? It didn't go well.

It didn't go well. They're married with three kids. They didn't go well for him because, of course not. It's too much. I feel like that happens. Did nobody tell him before, like, yo, don't do that.

Did you want him? I didn't know him. He was a friend of a friend. So I was kind of just hearing this and I didn't know him well enough to go like... He needs better friends. I agree. I agree because I wanted to be like,

hey, dude, I don't know you. but like, what are you doing? You did too much. I feel like he's already lost at that point. I agree. Yeah, he's already... I agree. Yeah.

But this is out of some, like, romantic ideal, rather than, like, just go meet someone, take it slow. Everyone can take it slow. Slow down. You think a movie would do well that accurately reflected what you imagine real romance would just flop? No, absolutely not. You don't think people would relate to it. I don't think for those part.

If you go against the grain, If everybody is so used to this like archetype or this general movie plot, if you go against the gray and try something different. No, some people do it. There's been like Friends with Benefits movies and there's been heartbreaking movies like Blue Valentine that show a real relationship falling apart. It has been done, but it's still not what a real full, full dimensional life is. Movies is a medium.

They are characters on a plot line. Like it represents life. It's not life. It can't. It's... Any artistic medium has to cut things out to make it work.

Like, it's not everything. It's the highlight reel. Not just the highlight reel. It's characters on a story. Yeah. Our life is a million things at one time. Getting to know someone is a million things at one time

negotiating how we share with one another or boundaries or what we need, our needs and wants. It just doesn't go... The movie, a character needs to... go on a fucking plot arc. Our life is going on a million of these things at one time. Like, it's just not it. It's not it. So you can watch them and maybe try and take parts, but I just think, I just, no, no, that is not romance. It's not romance, man. It's crafted by a Hollywood screenwriter.

It's beautiful. It's great storytelling. But your life is so much more than that. Getting to know someone is so much more than two characters having a scripted conversation. So do you feel like you're at a point now were you ready for a relationship or do you feel like you still have more like just self reflection growing to do and like yeah no um i don't want i don't want one okay uh smart man i don't want one i do feel ready for one i know i know my pace these days is way different and i will spend i will keep things i will keep things at a healthy distance while still getting to know someone for a longer and if someone is right enough during that process and it keeps unfolding in this way beautiful I could see that happening sure I've found most of my relationships these days um having uh they're not

sustainable but I think that's more realistic I don't think any relationship is sustainable so if we can start, if we can start not on the fantasy that we're going to be together forever, but that like, my life's super dynamic. It changes all the time. Let's just keep getting to know each other and keep being good to one another and see where this goes. That's kind of where I've been at these days. And I've gotten to know some great people. Some things have fizzled out naturally. And even that's been lovely, man. So I do think I'm capable of being in a relationship. I don't think I want one. Yeah. It seems like L.A., though, people do settle down way later. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, it's almost like the norm, I feel like, to really start settling down, at least here in like your 40s. It seems like that's about. Well, also, like, I'm a fucking actor, man. Like, my life changes all the time. It can change in a phone call. Like, and then I go and shoot in another city for a couple months or whatever. Like, I've grown loving and accepting of the way my life is dynamic. If I lived in a one town and kind of my life had a structure, I'd probably want.

a girlfriend. I'd want that. I'd want to build that. I'd want to do that. I'm so aware that my life is changing all the time and that I want it to. Yeah. That's not, it's not the best grounds for like a relationship. Like, hey, I love this right now, but also I'm always counting on the fact that my life is going to change and that it's going to take me to new places like next year. That's not the most stable like, hey, you can count up me being here. seems very exciting though. That's sort of life where it's like it could change every phone call, every text you get. Every day is like a new opportunity. There is something exciting about that. Yeah, it's maddening, but it's exciting. And I'm fucking, I'm back on, I'm back on it in a very

real way that makes me like, I'm stoked about it. I'm stoked for what's news. What about your music? Yeah. Music's pretty good. Thanks, man. Thanks. Music's been a journey. I've been doing that since I was 15. It is, uh, during, I was doing a lot during the pandemic. And then 2021, something creatively died in me musically for the last couple years and it's slowly starting to come back around so I don't have any news to report except that I will make

new music at some point and uh... What kind of will be great? Crushed it for you there? I don't know man. Just the creativity. Yeah, like literally something in my creative connection to it something, it's a natural process.

I've grown used to knowing myself well enough that like, it like, really just like skidded to a halt and died and I felt it. I was like, whoa, I'm like not connected to any of my music. And usually when that happens, I don't fight it. Sure. I don't resist. Like, creativity is so natural to me. If it's not happening, especially with music, I'm so connected to it, I knew like, oh, I can't fight this. I just actually need to let all of this, whatever this process. There's a lot in our life we think we can control. There's a lot that's just happening, man and if you can just pay attention to it if you can get to know your intuition well enough

you just got to like let some of these processes happen sometimes sometimes we're going through changes that we didn't choose but it's just our life man cycles of our life are like playing themselves out and creativity is a natural cycle and death is a part of creativity yeah like things need to people who could just create music like that though can like just flip a swiss with like that sort of create a mind i just i love that oh it me too yeah i love it and it's starting to flow again. I'm starting to experiment. And yes, I lose, I know I love it because I lose time doing it. I'll sit down and all of a sudden it's midnight and I've been like sitting at my desk for eight hours like making music and it feels so good. What's your creative process like?

These days it's different. So one of the things that kind of died for me musically was I had written every song I'd ever written on guitar pretty much and I just got tired of that. And so now I'm forging into experimenting with bedroom producing, you know, starting with just not guitar, starting with a beat, starting with something on keys, and just like crafting songs differently. And it's really just, I don't know, it's just a beautiful flowing process. I don't know, maybe I smoke a little weed and I just fucking try and find a vibe that feels, it's just like this deep, beautiful listening to myself and life and what's coming through me. And I love it, man.

I'm excited. There's some new music coming this year. can already feel it starting to cook. It's in the unmanifest. It's in the potential side of life right now. And I can feel it just like whispering to me. It's going to be great. You know who's back now?

It's going to be great. Hasn't been sick. Yes, his new records are fire. He dropped two new records and they're sick. So you know what's so crazy? It's like a few months ago, I was thinking, whatever happened to Scrillx? And here I am thinking, he's always been crushing.

Yeah, but here I am thinking like, I haven't seen or heard of him in like 10 years. And then all of a sudden he comes up on my TikTok. in the back of an Uber. And he's just like on his computer. And he's like, look at what I just came up with. And I don't know if this is real. I tend to believe that like he's just crafting stuff and the Uber.

Really good stuff. Yeah. I mean, they could have made that. They could have made that for the gram. But still, no, he's a, he's a incredible musician. He's glad he's back. Oh, he's amazing. Yeah.

I love Edia. Oh. You didn't know that? No, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Very diverse. He does. Hell yeah.

Me too. Eclectic music. But Skricks never left, not really. I feel like, I feel like he did, but his music popularity. Because he's been out there working, like, musicians are always doing sh** on the scenes. And he was so big, like, he's been out there doing, I mean, he's been at Burning Man every year doing sick DJ sets. I guess I'm thinking more like the mainstream sort of radio, but not, he's been out there, crush and DJ set. The cool thing about being a DJ man is you can just go get jobs all over the world whenever you want.

If you're that big. You can just book a show in any city and get a bunch of money and then go travel and do what you do. Like, you know, because even if you're not in the mainstream radio play, Skrillick's showing up to any club in any city in the world going to be fire. Yeah. And I'm sure

he's been doing it that whole time. I got to work with Steve Aoki on a movie. Oh, that's cool. He's so fucking dope, dude. Steve's so dope. We've done some Pokemon on boxing with him. Yeah, man. Yeah. He's insane. He's like one of of the most touring DJs in the world. He, like, tours, like, 300 days out of the year.

Yeah, he's got his residency, too, in Vegas. Yep. And he cakes people, and it's a blast. I've been caked by him. You've been caked. Yeah, it was an honor. How did that happen? Was that planned out or did...

Kind of. I mean, it was at a show, but he knew... It was while... He was in a movie I was shooting, so he knew, like, me and some of the cast were going to be there and caked us. That's awesome. How did that happen? What do you mean?

Did he just, like, were you in a crowd, or was it just like... Yeah, in the crowd? Did he look at you? Yeah, dude. Have you seen him do this? I feel so bad for the person. Oh, they want it. They want it. They want it. But, but, but, ruin my night.

I would want it. This man's aim. This man is insane. He does this at every show. He points at someone like, far the fuck away and throws a kick, like, a huge cake. It's not just a small cake. It's like a two foot cake. It's a full birthday cake.

Man's amazing. He hits them in the face every time. His aim's impeccable. I always think, I'm a big fan. Like, you see these people, they're wearing nice clothes. out. But a lot of the women would have their makeup on.

They know. Yeah, but the amount of people that can say they've been caked by Steve Ayoki. I mean. You just see their face like just Oh no,

it's a sticky mess. Oh, man. It's a mess. It's a mess. You have to leave after us. You have to go shower. We were covered in sugar.

It was crazy. But it's so fun. But it ends the night. No. The night's done. No. There's not a shower. There's not a decision.

That's a mentality. Exactly, man. The night just begun. You can end the night for you. You're going to do your whole. Yeah. People are going to fucking eat you. It's just not my...

You don't want people eating you? You don't want people licking your head? That sounds terrible. Yeah. You got to live a little, man. But he goes on also so late. Like, he goes on at like 2 to 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm fast asleep at that time.

Yeah. Yeah, you got to rage a little bit sometimes, Graham. Oh, Graham. It's funny. You guys' same age? Completely different. You would rage. I don't think you would rage.

He has money and I don't, so maybe there's something there. I don't think. I don't think you would raise. Like, what time would you go to bed? Look, regularly. Yeah. Like normal schedule. I'm going to bed at like midnight, right?

Or a little before. But no, I can reach. Yeah. It's all about balance, Graham. It's all about balance. I was up to like five on Saturday. Like Jack and I, what? Had a good night out.

Yeah, I had a good night out. 5 a.m. Where did you go? We went to a club on the west side or a bar on the west side. It was a little birthday celebration. I'm not sharing my spots. Okay. I'm not sharing my spots on the podcast.

Well, we like, we like, to go to Main Street. Main Street's fun. We go out and about. I like the bungalow. Yeah, bungalow's all right. All right. It's all right.

See, I'm not an L.A. guy. So if I do go out in L.A., that's where I'm not going to go. I don't go there, but it's a vibe. Is it a vibe good or bad? I can't tell. A vibe's good. A vibe is a vibe. It means it's a vibe.

It's not like Dave and Busters. Well, Dave and Busters. That's a different vibe. It's like, that's a vibe. It's like, that's a bad thing. No. No, it's a vibe is like, you want a vibe. Yeah.

I'm walking to a place and feel like, okay, here we go. Yeah. The thing is, it's either it is a vibe or you bring the vibe, okay? You usually don't want to have to bring the vibe. That's it. But if it's not already there, someone's got to do it. Exactly. So it's nice when the work is already done for you.

The environment, it already has this facilitated vibe. Exactly. Yeah. I don't like just hanging out with a whole bunch of strangers. Sometimes I like the atmosphere. Bungalo early, when there's not a lot of people, I like that. I'm going to get so crowded. Yeah.

We went to a spot in Nashville. terrible night terrible it was like Graham was sick food poisoning let's make sure we that was just ramping up

so like I was okay to be out but it was just like starting to feel a little queasy but it was these buildings there were like six stories four stories no there were more than four

there were more than four stories but you see each level is its own club yeah and they have all the windows all the windows open you just walk up the steps it was like a club

walk up the steps club yeah six stories stick back terrible It was terrible. Different strokes for different folks, man. Loud music, you've got to push people to get around. The floor, too, which is so cool.

Live music's fun. The floor was doing this. Yeah. That was scary. Yeah. It was spooky. I kind of love that shit. But the music was so loud.

You can't hear anything. You can't talk. No, that's a difficult part. Yeah. But you don't strike me as a dancer, Graham. I hate dancing. Yeah, see, there's your problem. There's a problem right there.

It's just not going to be for you. Like, when I go out, I go dance. You dance? I just dance, man. How do you do it? What do you mean? How do you want to give you a day? What do you mean how do I dance?

It's not about thinking you're in your head too much. I love that question you just ask. How do you dance? All it is. You mean you're feeling. Yes. You listen to music. Probably more than half the people watching this have no idea.

You want to know how you do music and you move your body. You turn off your brain. Your brain is completely off and you're just kind of having a good time. Shaking your arms, tapping your feet. Obviously the only thing that really matters is a rhythm. So you're kind of find the rhythm of the song. And then you just kind of make. And you just worry people are watching me.

They're not. Because you're in your head. The thing is you're in your head. That's it. You have to turn off your brain and just exist and feel. It's all a feeling. Someone's going to be like, oh, look at that guy. Dance.

He's trying to dance. That guy is so much more insecure than you. I got a question that I feel like I know the answer to, but you ever done psychedelics, Graham? No. I knew you haven't. Why? I'm just going to leave that there.

No, no, no. I'm curious. Tell me. Tell me. I'm curious. Yeah. Well, because to dance, you have to get out of your head and getting out of your head can be very hard for a lot of people.

And psychedelics won't always do it, but that's one way to literally have an experience where you go, oh, I let go of my mind for a moment and everything is okay. I'd be afraid of being changed after that. Because I've seen some people have tried it and then afterwards, they're not the same person and I like who I am as a person.

So like I don't want to risk that. That's fair. And then I think what's the benefit? Maybe I could dance at some point in the future. Like, is that worth the trip? No. Dancing's incredible, man. I don't like dance.

I don't like it. Yeah, and you might not ever like it, but dancing is incredible. It's not that you don't like dancing, you just don't like being uncomfortable. And because dancing isn't something that comes naturally to you, nor is it something that, like, you practice. It's different. And trying something new for you is uncomfortable. No, it's not that you don't enjoy it. If you knew how to dance, you would enjoy it.

I think so. That's it. If you felt free enough to even discover how to dance, I think I don't enjoy it. It's a lot. It's a blast. All it is just having a good time. Your mouth isn't moving. You're not having to think about what you're saying.

It's also primal. It's also like inherent to our social structures and biology through millennia. I look at this from a logical perspective. I know, but look at people. And I'm like, look at them moving their body in such a way to a beat. It's just strange to comprehend that. But logically, this is something inherent to our humanity that's been around for millennia. But if I look at like, like in nature, you don't see any other like, you do. Like, I don't know. Like you don't see frogs just going like kind of bump into. Lizards do the push-ups, man. Birds kind of like, dude.

No, you do. You see birds. Birds dance. Okay. Maybe birds of the exact. Mating dances are a thing. Mm-hmm. It's just weird.

I don't know. It's not weird, man. And also, if it is weird, what's so bad about being weird? That's what I got to know. Just don't like a cup of tea. It's just not. I believe that. I got that about you.

But that's why I was curious. Yeah, night out's not going to be your thing. Because it is too loud to talk. That's one of the things I don't love about going. going out or it's one of the things I don't love about trying to meet a woman out is I can't actually hear if it's a stranger stranger yeah like we can dance for a moment and maybe we have an attraction but if I can't like actually talk without yelling like it's too hard to have that first conversation so I don't love that um but I do love just going to dance me my friends we just go

my guy friends like we go yeah you go to just let loose forget about everything that's happening in your life you get out of your head you just go you listen to music and And you just have fun. You just... That's it. That's it. I love watching your face process this. It sounds exhausting.

It's just not... That wouldn't relax me. It's... So what it is is getting into a flow state where you're not just like constantly thinking. That's all it is. And you have your own ways of getting into your flow state. That work for you.

But the thing is, doesn't... Like, you can try out other ways. Like when you... Listen. When you make music, because I know you like making music, when you play piano,

when you edit, like, those are times where you get into a flow state. Yeah. Even when you're at the gym. Didn't dance. But you can... The thing is you're telling yourself that you dislike it before you give it an honest effort. Oh, I've given it efforts.

No, you haven't. Macy is drag me on the dance? No, you haven't set yourself free. But if you ever, if you ever accidentally end up at Burning Man and accidentally take some ecstasy and listen to Scrilix, you're going to dance. No, I don't think that's ever going to happen. Like I said, accidentally, you stumble upon Burning Man and then you stumble into some ecstasy. No, you don't. You don't. Of course not.

I'm just saying to get through this barrier around dance, he might need the drugs. My hard case, Jack. Yeah. He might need the drugs. Take drugs, but then I will become reliant on them to dance. No, no, no, no, no. That's not entirely true. I will say, in my psychedelic experience, no, you can have an experience on psychedelic. It's why I'm very excited that the FDA is getting closer to approving psychedelic-assisted therapy. You can have an experience on a psychedelic that changes your life moving forward sober.

It can show you a spectrum of what's possible inside yourself in terms of acceptance, love, expression, integrating yourself, and do it in a way that even when you come off it, you go, oh, wow, I know something different about myself in the world now. Even if you do them once or twice, it's why I'm really stoked for the work that's being done to bring them, into the, like, therapy space, bring them into the PTSD space, bring them into maybe couples therapy space, um, and do it with a protocol, like through the FDA that's, like,

really safe and really regulated. I think that's a great thing for our society, to be honest. Yeah. Because, like, I did it. I had great experiences, but I did it, the normal, reckless way of just, like, being somewhere and taking shit, right?

And ending up having some great experiences that have really enriched my life. But that is a, there's a lot of variables to those experiences. And doing it through like an actual, like regulated body, I think is nice. It's going to be good for the world. Yeah. Yeah. So one day, when you're in there, we'll see.

Doing, doing psychedelic assisted therapy. And the MDMA is coursing through your veins. And they put on scrylix. Oh, gosh. A little Graham. His feet will start tapping. In his little private space. Yeah.

You're going to tap And your head's going to bob And you're going to feel free And not uncomfortable And I hope in that moment, Graham, you think of Devin Workheiser I hope you think of this conversation And you say,

Ned told me Ned is everywhere and nowhere At the same time Ned's a survival guide right there Ned's dancing guide This would be funny as a Ned's survival guy Like tip number like 237

Do psychedelic assisted therapy and free up your ability to dance. That's a good way to end. Honestly, that's a great final tip for us. Well, thank you so much for this. What do you want to shout out? Who's your audience? 18 to 35, 85% male. Man, it's similar to mine.

So what's up, guys? If you like podcasts, I have Growing Up with Devin, new episodes are every Tuesday. That's my exploration with people about the transition between adolescence. and adulthood. And it covers a lot of different topics. And I interview a lot of different people, a lot of former entertainers, you know, or still entertainers. Ned's cast, I've got Lindsay and Daniel on there. Kendall from Big Time Rush, my friend Jacks, who's an amazing singer-songwriter, Alison Stoner. Like, there's tons of great people. I had great finance people on. Tori Dunlap, who I love her first 100K. She gave us a great talk on finances. But that's just my, it's that

exploration. The transition from adolescence to adulthood is different for all of us, but there's so much that is the same. And so I interview guests on that. And it's entertaining. And also, I hope, meaningful and inspirational. And then the Ned's Pod, rewatch pod, it's utter insanity. We talk about pooping half the time. It's a great time with me, Lindsay and Daniel, new episodes every Wednesday. What else? That's kind of it for now. There's a lot in the works, but that's the deal right now. Go check out my pods and say hi to me on social media. You know, you kind of look similar to Bo Burnham.

I've heard that before. I think it's the beard. It's the beard. I was noticing that halfway through the podcast. Like, who does he look like Bo Burnham? I love Bo Burnham. He's good. I did a TikTok after watching Inside

where I play on that idea that I look like Bo Burnham. Follow him on TikTok, guys. Follow me on TikTok. Thank you so much for maybe. Thanks for having me, fellas. Anything we can help with, just let us know. I will. need a house. No, I'm just kidding. I love renting.

See you guys. All right. Awesome. Sick, man. Good luck editing, man.