The Iced Coffee Hour - The Savings Expert: They’re Lying To You About Building Wealth - Do THIS Instead! | Humphrey Yang

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Starting point is 00:01:14 or also link down below in the description. Use code iced coffee for 10% off. It truly gets a great workout in. Thank you so much to AMP for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast. An alarming new trend. More Americans are tapping into their forefews. 401ks for emergencies.

Starting point is 00:01:32 There are million things that keep people broke, but these three things in particular are doing the most damage. A family of four now needs nearly $140,000 a year just to survive. New data shows Americans are saving less as they struggle to keep up with rising costs. The personal savings rate across the country is nearing a record low. Do you think that that trend is going to stay the same?

Starting point is 00:01:54 In 2030, do you think that people are going to be even worse off than they are today? The blueprint to wealth is incredibly simple, but most people don't know where to start. The stock market has set 53 all-time record highs since the election. Think of that one year. The rich are getting richer, they're getting richer faster. I mean, that's the reality.

Starting point is 00:02:10 What are the biggest financial red flags? I mean, you can get away with a lot of stuff. You just carry yourself, like, you look rich. We're minting millionaires faster than we've ever minted them before. So what is technically the number one wealth killer? Look, if you want to get rich in 2026, here's how you do it. Humphrey Yang, you used to be a financial advisor, and now you're a financial educator on YouTube. I absolutely love your videos. You simplify very complex topics. We have a lot we agree on.

Starting point is 00:02:38 We also have some things we disagree on, which I am very excited to explore this episode. Thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to dive into some of these deeper topics that we might disagree on. So I want your take on some of these insane statistics. More than half of Americans currently cannot cover $8,000 emergency. And on top of that, one in five car buyers has a payment above $1,000 a month. Is this the fault of the American economy or are people just spending themselves into oblivion? You know, I think it's partially lack of financial education, obviously, number one. Number two, impulse control.

Starting point is 00:03:16 Zero. A lot of Americans just have no impulse control. They go to a car dealership. They see their shiny new toy. They want that shining new toy. they say, oh, I can afford the monthly payment. And then they get kind of roped into these car loan terms, high APRs, no money down or low money down so that they can just drive the car off the lot and they get something that they can't really afford. But do you think that Americans are getting more impulsive as time has gone on?

Starting point is 00:03:42 Like, are we, are we worse off now than we were 10 years ago in terms of like financial literacy and financial discipline? Or is there something else at play? I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say that Gen Z and younger probably feel like. like they can't get ahead, right? Because everything is so expensive. So they start giving up on long-term financial goals and instead, opting for the short term, right?

Starting point is 00:04:02 Renting something that is really nice to live in and also, you know, getting a luxury car that they probably can't afford because they're like, well, what's the point in saving for a house? I'm never going to get there. Why do they feel like they can never get to a house? Yes, I guess it's more challenging now. Easy for you to say to it. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:04:20 It's more challenging now than it was back in the day. But at the same time, I mean, like, we've explored this subject in so much depth. If you just set aside a little bit of money and you invest it, yes, it might take you five to ten years. Unfortunately, that's very difficult and annoying. But like, it's still doable. Yeah, I think like the biggest argument that you might hear is that the relative wages to what things cost, let's say from the boomer age to now is a lot. The relative cost is higher, right? So that means, you know, the median wage 50 years ago could have bought you a house in one to two years of your earnings.

Starting point is 00:04:59 But nowadays, it's like five to seven or even more just. And even for the down payment in a lot of these places, people have to work 10 years before even saving enough money to get that down payment. Do you think at the crux of it all, it's truly just home ownership? Because a lot of other things have gotten cheaper relative to wages, like a lot of things in the technology sector, you know, microwaves, phones on average. Like things are decreasing in cost relative to the increase of wages. But homes, obviously, there's been a huge change in terms of affordability. Yeah, I mean, I think that's also like the narrative that we're kind of taught, right? Which is like the American dream is owning a house.

Starting point is 00:05:35 So that is kind of the benchmark that people kind of judge their own personal finances against. And so if that's like the ultimate financial goal for a lot of people to have a house and then to have a family, which is the point of life in America, then if they can't really afford these homes, anymore, then yeah, then I can see why they would just be like, all right, well, I'm going to yolo my money on Kalshi, or I'm going to yolo my money on, let's say, a thousand dollar car payment. So part of me wonders if buying a home is not actually the goal anymore. Like, I think that other people just want to get rich. It's not even about buying a home and having a place to like, to hang your hat. It's about like having a Lamborghini and having all of these things that advertised to us with like genius marketing commercials, TikTok investors and traders that are able

Starting point is 00:06:22 to turn 100% returns per year. I think it's just the house is being seen now as an investment. There's like a wealth building vehicle. You think people are still in the same mindset as they were previously? I don't think any of it's changed. I just think things have gotten a lot more expensive than people with social media are a little more apt to like complain about things and be vigilant about things. Absolutely. But I don't think it's a Lambo anymore. I don't think like people really care as much about that as they do like, if I buy a house,

Starting point is 00:06:53 I'm going to be way wealthier in the future. I think it's consumerism. Like I think if you go on TikTok, everyone's talking about buying the new expensive clothing or buying expensive vintage clothing or looking the best, having like the nicest watch, living in the high-rise apartment. All of like expensive life is glamorized now. And so everyone wants that, but they can't afford it with their wage. So, yeah, they go to things like Kalshi or they want to yolo their life savings on Wall Street bets.

Starting point is 00:07:20 Yeah, I mean, I think 50 years ago, even if everybody was average or somewhat the same, you didn't really care. You know, you're just kind of in your own little bubble. But these days, if you're average or homogenous, then you're going to look at TikTok, you're going to look at Instagram. And everyone that's standing out online are these, like, huge outliers that are just, you know, living these glamorous lives. And then you're going to want to naturally just want to be part of that, right? Like if you don't feel like you're standing out, then you just feel like, oh, well, I'm just so normal. But that's completely fine. So when it comes to building wealth, what do you think is the biggest reason that people feel held back?

Starting point is 00:07:56 Do you think it's that they don't make enough money? They spend too much money, cost of living, things like health care, housing, or bad investment decisions. Okay, I think ranked in order, number one is probably income. number two really close behind it is how much they spend bad investment decisions i don't know i don't see that many people i mean unless they're going for the get rich quick stuff i think that if you're just paying attention to good old standard s and p 500 i don't really think you can make too bad of a decision there but usually it comes down to like their impulses are usually too bad so like or you know they're too impulsive so they spend more than they should and they're just not

Starting point is 00:08:36 saving enough so and that could be combated by having a higher income, but really just comes down to income and expenses. So what financial behavior does the most damage? What do you think? And then I'll give you my opinion. Because I think what you would say is spending. I would, you know what, it would be spending, but I would say, assuming I don't say spending is complacency.

Starting point is 00:08:58 It's just feeling like I'm doing good enough not to try for something better. Or that things are lukewarm and they aren't bad and other people have it worse. But, you know, my situation's decent. It could be better, but it's okay. And from that, you just kind of stay in that like middle ground where you're just kind of like treading water a little bit, but you're never going to go any more than that. I tend to agree. I think it's realistically spending. I don't think it's an income problem.

Starting point is 00:09:25 I think it's a spending problem. And you can see this because people earning up to $150,000 a year are still paycheck to paycheck. No reason for them to be paycheck to paycheck. But if it's not spending, then realistically, I think it's an attention problem. I think it's lack of awareness. That's what I was going to say. is lack of awareness to what is going on in their financial life. You cannot improve upon something if you aren't paying attention to it.

Starting point is 00:09:45 If you're just ignorant to it, then it's just going to fester and spiral down. I use this analogy all the time, which is like if you're trying to lose weight, you're going to weigh yourself, right? You're going to go to the gym. You're going to weigh yourself maybe once a week, once every two weeks. And you're kind of conscious of what your weight is and if what you were doing is reaching your goals or not. With finances, people just for some reason they have a blind spot and they just can't figure out how much spending and it's hard to face how much you're spending too because it's kind of an embarrassing thing, especially if you feel like you spend money a little bit frivolously, right?

Starting point is 00:10:17 What's really interesting is that you came in, by the way, exactly on time. I did. We were going to start at 11. You show up exactly at 11. And you said that on the way, the cab driver only got paid $4 for the trip from the Las Vegas trip to our studio here. And it's a decent drive. It's a good 25 minute drive, sure.

Starting point is 00:10:37 But $4. How do they get away with paying someone $4 and walk through the math and what this person should be doing instead of a $4 ride? Okay. So this person in particular was a really tough situation. Okay, this guy is 78 years old. He's a senior and he's just trying to make ends meet. He's driving for this cab company. He told me that the base fare is $5.50.

Starting point is 00:11:00 But immediately that goes to the taxi cab company, right? And so on the remaining fare, he gets 40% of it. So the fare was like $28. So right then and there, that's $23 of an effective fare that he's going to get, maybe $2.50, 40% of that. What's that? About $8, $8.80, maybe $10. So he just drove me 25 minutes out of the strip. Now he has to drive back to the strip for more business.

Starting point is 00:11:25 And he waited in the hotel line, in the taxi stand line for about 10, 15 minutes. So right then and there, he's making less than $10 an hour if he's driving the cap. Now, the nice thing is he doesn't have to pay for maintenance on the car. I think he might have to pay for gas, but I don't think he has to pay for maintenance. And he basically just gets to take that home. But in his situation, if he's making $10 an hour as a cab driver, at 78 years old, he might not have any other employable skills. And so he might just have to be stuck in that situation.

Starting point is 00:11:53 That's really tough. But are you saying for someone younger, perhaps? I'm just thinking, how is there not a better use of this person's time that could even be it like as a greeter somewhere or at any other business. Unless it's purely something where it's like that's a type of career where you could just clock in when you have some extra time.

Starting point is 00:12:15 Yeah. Which might be the case. You know, we don't know him and we don't know what his situation is like. I mean, but in that particular situation, I don't know what he should do. Maybe he should, maybe he might need another job. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:12:27 That's a really tough one. Do you think there's a chance he's lying for a tip? You know, of course there's a chance that's a chance but because you left him a pretty good tip after you I left him a $20 tip but still let's like I think that

Starting point is 00:12:41 there is a chance but then there's also like I believe in the good of humanity and I feel like he was a pretty honest person based on the 20 minutes that we shared together and we were talking for a little bit yeah could he be a lot of sure he did get 20 bucks out of you though he did but he actually didn't

Starting point is 00:12:56 he was like you don't have to tip me he's like you know I was like oh I'll just tip you 10 bucks and he was like oh great, I'll be happy with that. And when I gave him, so the fair was like $29. I gave him $40 at first, $29.50 or something, whatever it is. So he was effectively going to get a $10 tip, and he was really happy with that. And I was like, all right, let me just do you one better.

Starting point is 00:13:15 Here, I have an extra 10. And he was elated. So that just made his hour, which was nice. You know, what's interesting is tips can absolutely be manipulated. Like, I had a friend that worked at an ice cream shop. And apparently when you scoop ice cream, it can start to hurt your wrist if you do it for like eight hour shifts like a few days in a row. And so what he would do is wear a brace on his wrist. And when he would go to scoop the ice cream, he'd be like, and like the customers

Starting point is 00:13:40 would say, oh, is your wrist hurting what's going? He's like, yeah, just, you know, a few shifts in a row. And yeah, it ends up hurting my wrists and it's a little bit weak and oh, but it's fine, it's fine. I'll be okay. And he said he noticed a significant jump in the amount of tips he received once he started wearing the brace on his wrist and acting like it hurt to scoop ice cream. I believe that. I mean, I mean, hot girls get better tips as a waitresses, right? Yeah. In general, and hostesses.

Starting point is 00:14:06 I got another story for you. We knew someone who was driving for Uber and really friendly person and he would make conversation. And in the conversation, he would bring up that he's doing Uber to help pay for a future child and that him and his wife are saving up to have a child. The tips he got were insane. Like he was telling us, people would take. I'm like $100.

Starting point is 00:14:30 Oh my God. For just casual rides around town. And he would just mention this. Now, he was telling the truth. Yeah. But had he not said that, the tip would be substantially less. I'm for that. I think, you know, don't hate the player, hit the game.

Starting point is 00:14:45 I'm fine with that. And, you know, if I overtip this cab driver today, then, you know, he got me. All of a sudden, next time you go to get ice cream, every single ice cream scooper. It's just going to be wearing wrists and every single Uber driver is going to be preparing for a few. future family, every single one. So you mentioned you think that people are worse off today than they were five years ago or in 2020. I'm curious. Cost of living wise, yeah. Yeah, I'm curious. Do you think that that trend is going to stay the same? In 2030, do you think that people are going to be even worse off than they are today? I put it at more than 50 percent. So maybe 60 percent. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:15:17 they're probably even more worse off. If the cost of living increases go the way that they're going and nothing gets changed with wages. So you attribute it mostly to a cost of living. Yeah, I mean, grocery prices are way up. Energy prices are up, but that's because of the war. But even before then energy prices were up, I mean, the inflation stuff from COVID still was like 4% was the last one. But that obviously had some energy, but still, it's over 2%. Yeah. Even filling up the gas tank recently, it's not $6 a gallon at a lot of places. You drive a Tesla. I do, but I had to fill up another car. Oh, okay. And I was paying six bucks a gallon for gas for the premium. Yeah. And that's up fast. So what do you think is hurting people

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Starting point is 00:17:01 dot pro slash ICH or click the link down below in the description to get started. Enjoy. And that's up fast. Yeah, it's up fast. So what do you think is hurting people the most right now? Do you think it's inflation, housing, interest rates, or lifestyle creep? I think it depends where you go in San Francisco housing. San Francisco rents are crazy right now because of the AI boom.

Starting point is 00:17:23 And a lot of people can't afford housing there because everyone that, that's coming there for rent is AI, right? And so they're getting this inflated salary or this, not inflated, but high for their, for their, um, industry salary. And the rental market there is small. So I would say their housing, but I would say across the board probably inflation is, is probably like, I would rank that the highest. And inflation does include rent prices too. That's crazy. I don't, I just see it.

Starting point is 00:17:51 No. I don't think that it's the cost of living. Like I think the, yes, the cost of living is increasing. But you can live elsewhere. Like, you can move and have cheaper housing. I think you said than done, though, if you have your whole community in one area, your family's there, your friends are there, it's hard just to pick up and move somewhere else, I'm not saying like move to a different state.

Starting point is 00:18:12 I'm just saying move into like a cheaper place and move in some roommates. Like I still live in a house with five people. I have four roommates. You know, I, it's, you can make living cheap. I could choose to live in Vegas and spend $10,000 a month on rent or I could choose to live to live in Vegas and spend $700 a month on rent. If I'm renting out room. So like the way that I see it is, yes, the overall environment might get more difficult

Starting point is 00:18:38 to live in. I 100% agree with that. But there are always solutions. But there are absolutely solutions. And it's the problem will not get solved if you put the burden of solving the problem on other people or on the environment or on cost of living or inflation. Like that's just not going to solve the problem. I agree.

Starting point is 00:18:53 It's not going to solve the problem. But I think you can still recognize like the reality that a lot of people. are facing, which is like, it is more expensive. For sure, but I would never attribute it to the number one problem that's facing people if they're dissatisfied with where they're at financially. Oh, well, if that's the question, then yeah, then they can make better choices, but or different choices to maybe save money. But still, I think that is the number one thing that affects everybody.

Starting point is 00:19:16 Well, since so many people live paycheck to paycheck, including those making over $150,000, $200,000 a year, at what level is living paycheck to paycheck purely a spending problem? probably over 150, 200k a year. Yeah, at that point, it is a spending problem because what is 150K a year after tax? Like take home? Like you're bringing home 10K a month. Let's say your rent is 40% of that.

Starting point is 00:19:39 So 4K a month. You got 6K left to work with. At that point, it's probably a spending problem, unless you got a family of four. What would you say? Outside, I think, of New York and San Francisco, I would say probably. Yeah, I'm also talking.

Starting point is 00:19:58 Yeah, outside of New York and SF, Because I think in New York and SF 150, even in Seattle, 150 is like, or Austin, 150's maybe closer to the median. I would say really anything above like $90,000 a year, you should be able to save some extra cash. What about you, Jack? What do you think, threshold? I'm going to get so much hatefully. You're going to say $40,000 a year, Jack. I mean, it depends.

Starting point is 00:20:21 So, like, if you're living in a place like Las Vegas, like, this is like an average cost of living city, I'm pretty sure, like in America. I'll go, yeah. If I was earning $50,000 a year, then I'm sure that I would somehow be able to find a way to save an addition, like a save $1,000 a month, $12,000 a year. I just think it's doable. I would just, I would move in. What salary, 50K a year? 50K a year. Well, that's going to be 42 after tax. 42 after tax, 4200 after tax. So that's 25%. So it's like, it leaves me with 30K. So like my rent would maybe be a thousand dollars a month. Like the rooms that are in my house are renting for like $750. to $1,000 a month. So let's just call it $800 on average.

Starting point is 00:21:03 So then you still have, what would you still have? You still have $20,000 a year to like spend on whatever. So like... Well, then it's car. And we're talking car insurance, potentially gas, maybe utilities. Okay, car insurance for the year, let's just call it $2,000, right? So you have $18,000. Then you have food.

Starting point is 00:21:23 Let's just say $400 a month. So you're down to... $400, it's not that much for food. I mean, maybe if you're doing like, you know, meal preps and cost. How much do you want to give for food? Probably $600 a month for food. Okay, $600 a month for food, which I think is pretty high.

Starting point is 00:21:37 Okay. But let's just say you're at $600. So that's what, $7,000, $7,000 per year. So what is the math? Now we're down to like 10K after car insurance, after food. And then you just have any other entertainment, any other like random life expenses that just seem to come up. It's always a plane ticket to see your family. I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:21:59 you, but when I was making $50,000 a year, I was, I was not doing those things. Like, I was not spending money on entertainment because I think that, like, it's more important to be saving money and, like, focusing on increasing my income. And then once I was able to do that, then, like, maybe my, my tolerance for, like, or my bar where I set, like, I can afford these things is just a little bit higher. Here's the thing, though. I think it's easier to do that when you're 20 or 21, harder to do when you're like 20. Oh, I agree with that. A hundred percent. Like 30. Without question.

Starting point is 00:22:30 So if someone's 30, it's going to be tougher than if you're like just toughing it out at like 19 or 20. I agree. And if you run into like a crazy emergency expense, 3Gs, that could easily just take it down to all your savings. Yeah, but that's all the more reason to have a savings and to not spend it on things like going to the theater or like a subscription services or buy now pay later. I just think that 50K a while in time ago would have given you a little bit more breathing room than that. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like 50K is really.

Starting point is 00:22:59 100%. But I just don't like saying online that, you know, you have an excuse if you're making less than $90,000 a year to not be, to be paycheck to paycheck. Like I want people to think that they can not be paycheck to paycheck even at $50,000 a year. Like I want, I want them to think that they can still make some compromises, make some sacrifices and like decrease their entertainment budget by $100 a month to be able to save and invest that money for a rainy day or if an emergency happens. No, I agree. I think, you know, I've recently been interviewing a lot of my viewers because I have like this new show where we do like, I review three viewers per episode. And a lot of them are early 20s and they make 50, 60K and they're saving 20, 25%. So it is possible. But their conditions are also really good, right? They, they maybe live with a couple roommates. They have really low expenses. That's pretty good. Or maybe they're just like still in school. So stuff like I agree. I just think that like online if you say that like, oh, like if you're making under $90,000 and you have a reason for not being paycheck to pay. It's an easy opinion to take because people are going to be like, oh yeah, like, you know, I making $80,000 a year can't save and this guy just validated what I had to say. So like people are going to applaud

Starting point is 00:24:11 you for that. But I would like, it's it's a more dislikable opinion to have to say like, oh, like you should be saving money even at $60,000 a year. Granted, this is assuming you have no kids, you know, like you don't have like some debilitating, you know, heart condition. Yeah, I think I agree with good financial discipline and good habits. You can still make it. Yeah. So what is technically the number one wealth killer? Technically, it's divorce, but. Is it really? Yeah, when I was like doing my research online, yeah, it's usually divorce. Like, how so? Uh, well, divorces are expensive. The divorce lawyers are expensive on its own. So I think the average divorce lawyer costs you like between five and 10K at least. And then, um, the splitting up of the assets, usually a little bit

Starting point is 00:24:55 rough. It's going to cost you a lot in terms of opportunity costs as well. So like, let's say you had a joint investment account and now you have to split it. You're going to have to sell those stocks or you might have to sell those stocks and then take those gains or you might have to restart investing. I thought now, let's just say you have a joint investment account. Can't you just do an ACATS transfer and then that person gets some of them without having to sell and then you keep the cost basis? Yeah, it's assuming both people want to hold the stock. But what if one person wants to sell it, right? And you can ACATs out and then sell it probably.

Starting point is 00:25:30 Yeah, to me that would just be their decision to sell. Like, they should have the tax burden if they want to sell. I guess I've never been through a divorce, so I can't really speak on that. But in doing my research, divorce was one of them. And what's the solution to that? Picking a better partner. I don't know, picking the right partner or maybe asking the right questions before you get married. I don't know what the right questions are, Graham.

Starting point is 00:25:49 Maybe you do. I think it's just being upfront and transparent, as early as possible, putting it all on the table. And then that's an easy out where, hey, if this doesn't work for the other person, you tell them early. And then they know and they could find a partner who maybe the financially is more compatible. Yeah, I think that is a really big, like, rift for a lot of couples is the financial aspect side. Like, a lot of couples just don't talk about it. And so you don't know what the other person has. You don't know what the other person's values around money is.

Starting point is 00:26:18 And so that could be a big reason for financial or relationship problems. but I think the other wealth killer was cars I mean, if that's what you want to talk about. What would you say are the biggest lies that people believe on all sides of the spectrum about money? I mean, we have such similar, I think both of all of us have like these similar views on money.

Starting point is 00:26:39 I don't think so. Really? I think I disagree with you too. Yeah, I think I disagree with you guys. Just Graham and I? Yeah. Well, I think you guys probably agree a lot more. We do.

Starting point is 00:26:48 Yeah, but I would say I disagree with you guys. What do you disagree with them most? I would say I don't think you guys are frugal. I think you guys are cheap. That's harsh. Why do you got to say you guys? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:04 Well, this is... Well, define cheap. Like, like, as... Because maybe we're doing this exercise yesterday, like, as a percentage of your income, like how much you spend. It's funny, I don't see Humphrey is cheap at all. I splash around it sometimes.

Starting point is 00:27:15 Yeah. Humphrey's balling. He brought two gold coins here. One of them's pretty hefty. We're going to talk about them later. So you think I'm cheap? I do. I think that you guys are both technically cheap.

Starting point is 00:27:27 And it was interesting. So I found, I asked if there is a mathematical definition to cheap versus frugal as opposed to like a philosophical or psychological definition of it. And this is what I got. The mathematical definition of cheap would be minimizing costs even when the lost value exceeds the money saved. So an example would be taking a 20 minute longer flight connection to save things. to save $300 is probably frugal, taking a 10-hour longer itinerary to save $100 when you earn $200 an hour is probably cheap.

Starting point is 00:28:01 That's such an extreme example that neither one of us would do that. That's an example. That's not like an example of a definition. Yeah, give us an example of something that we do. You're just trying to say like we're just saving to save rather than saving based on anything. I mean, I would go by the definition, minimizes costs even when the lost value exceeds the money saves.

Starting point is 00:28:21 Your own definition. That is my definition. I agree with that. Your definition is just someone else's... Well, I think that there is like an actual value to money. Money is not good for the sake of it being money. Money is good for the things that money can do. And like money buys things like comfort.

Starting point is 00:28:35 It buys things like freedom. So like there's value to money and freedom. And you can assign the unit as like a dollar to tie to it. And so like if your comfort and freedom and time and stress are all worth this amount and money is worth this amount and you spend... like, let's say less money, but all of like your stress and the stress goes up and your freedom goes down. But like this unit is greater. The unit of value lost is greater than the unit of money spent than I think that that is being cheap. You're just saying like the ways that

Starting point is 00:29:11 we think about money perhaps, me and Graham, are just like a little, like there are frameworks a lot. Yeah. So here's here's an actual thing that actually might, this might click with you, Graham. I would say Humphrey, you spend 1% of your withdrawal rate annually, right? That's what you're on track for right now personally. One percent of your withdrawal rate. Where did you get that from? Yeah, talk to him about it yesterday. Okay. Yeah. And you save 100% of your net business income. Currently I'm saving, yeah, close. Well, I reinvest in the business, but other than that, yeah, like net profit, yes. Yeah, you save 100% of your net business income. Like, so like, you're not spending that personally. No. And you're spending 1% of your investment portfolio.

Starting point is 00:29:52 you. Yeah. So like, I would just say that there is no way that like if you're only spending 1% and from this 1% you're able to live the life that you're living, traveling, eating the food that you want to eat, doing the things, spending the money on personal things like you want to be spending it. If you bumped it up to two, realistically, the financial. Yeah, my bottom line would probably be fine. Nothing would change. But you have double the amount of options that you have right now. Like, there's no way that that that's not being cheap. That's assuming that you double the spending, you double the options. You don't.

Starting point is 00:30:27 Sure, but even if you 10% increase the options, I would say it's like you're not spending. I think I could live a little and spend a little bit more. That's exactly right. Yeah, but I don't think Humphrey's depriving himself of anything. I don't think he's needed. Well, here's a great example. I'm going to Norway next week, right, with my girlfriend. And right now we have premium economy tickets.

Starting point is 00:30:46 Love it. Premium economy. Great value. Now, lie flat seats are an extra $2,200 per ticket. Per ticket. Yeah, I agree. For 10 hours. Yep.

Starting point is 00:30:57 And so in my head, I'm thinking $4,400, I would much rather have $4,400. And we can do whatever we want in Norway. We can go out to the finest restaurants, use that money there. But Jack is saying, well, you don't spend that much money anyway. You might as well just buy the $4,400. Because you could do that and do all the cool stuff you want to do in Norway. and your total portfolio or total investable assets are hardly going to change. So I kind of, I can see his, I can see his argument.

Starting point is 00:31:28 And personally, I want the life flat seat. But, but, you know, it's like, I agree with you. I agree with you. The premium economy to me is 80% of a first class ticket. But 20% cost. Like, how do you determine value of something? Like, value to you is different than value to the market. Correct.

Starting point is 00:31:49 Yeah. Because like if you have an abundance of a certain resource, then adding more of that resource to your life might not actually be very valuable. But if you don't have an abundance of something like a life flat seat or comfort or like eating the food you want to eat or let's say you want to go to the gym but you don't want to hire a personal trainer or health, like you don't have an abundance of those things. Then you can sacrifice something that you are abundant in, which is money. Right. It's just a resource. Like people want to acquire money just for the sake of having more money and this drives me at the wall. It makes no sense.

Starting point is 00:32:17 You're saying, oh yeah, but I could spend $4,400 extra when I get to Norway on whatever I want. I'm like, dude, you're at the point right now where you're spending 1% of your withdrawal rate and saving 100% of your business profits. Like, why not both? You're not actually losing anything. If like, if you get so excited, if you get so excited about the optics of spending $4,400 in Norway, spending $4,400 is so exciting to you, then like, that just shows me that you can be allocating this thing that you are abundant with, which is money, better. I'm sure a lot of you guys feel the same, but it is so difficult to trust anything you see online. Every headline exists to just try to make you feel a certain way without even reading the story. And it's not just social media. Even real news outlets feel like they're picking aside before they've even told you what's actually happened. And that is the exact problem that our sponsor's Strait Arrow is built to solve.

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Starting point is 00:35:05 Check it out at amp.aI, or also link down below in the description. Use code iced coffee for 10% off. it truly gets a great workout in. Thank you so much to AMP for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast. Then, like, that just shows me that you can be allocating this thing that you are abundant with, which is money, better. Yeah, I think you really bring up, like, a good mental blind spot, which is, like, a lot of people treat different buckets of money differently, right? Like, if we were to say, let's spend $4,400 on a nice mattress,

Starting point is 00:35:37 you might not blink an eye. You're like, oh, that's a great investment. But then all of a sudden, we're having this debate. $4,400 for 10 hours of flight time. Like, is that worth it? And I think that is a trait that I have inherited from my parents, which is like scarcity mindset. And we've talked about this before, probably on a podcast five years ago. But it's still hard to fight those feelings because you always feel like money could be better used elsewhere if you don't feel like it's being best used, for example, in this flat seat. So I'm always thinking about the deal. Am I getting a good deal? Is it? is worth the money. And that's kind of how I've operated my entire life. And probably grand, that's how you do. And here's the thing too. Premium economy, you're in an age right now or premium economy is fantastic. But doing premium economy on a 10 hour, 12 hour flight at 65 is going to be a much different experience. So I'd say, well, you still can. Well, Jack can still live with roommates.

Starting point is 00:36:33 We could probably say the same thing to Jack. Jack, you could move out and you could buy a baller mansion and like do this and that and all these things and get a car with longer range. instead of having to charge when you drive to Ventura, like all these things you could do. I will defend Jack a little bit here, which is that if I continue to think this way in terms of this mindset that I have, like I will not be able to switch it off.

Starting point is 00:36:55 Like I'm already 38, so like by the time I'm 65, will I switch this off? Realistically, I don't think we would switch this off. Yeah, I think it's a slow trickle. Yeah. And it's like it's hard to spend once you have, if you're wired like that.

Starting point is 00:37:06 Like I did that basically going to Europe. I took premium economy there. but did the first class going back. But he didn't want to. Like this was something that we had multiple conversations. Oh, yeah, I really didn't want to. But I justified it because I could plan out an entire video with... Justified it as a business expense.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Yeah, that was the only way I was able to get out that video is if I had my own space where I could like zone in, headphones in, and just focus nonstop without any distraction for like 10 hours straight. But that's like a justification, right? And so I don't even think that you would have done it. I wouldn't have done it without. I agree that you wouldn't have done it. But just because that doesn't necessarily make you right because you did it and you were successful in that way. I think that as your friend, I would I would encourage you to value your comfort.

Starting point is 00:37:58 Like just a little bit more than you do. But the problem is I am comfortable and premium economy. I'm not uncomfortable. What about Macy? Like it seemed like Macy. Macy posted a couple of pictures on her on her Instagram. And she was personally fine with premium. And she was very excited about.

Starting point is 00:38:10 I've never seen her post premium economy on her story, but she posted the life flats. She posted the life flats on her story. She did when we went to Japan. The premium economy is a fantastic seat. She is just fine with premium economy. But this is all to say that I think that money for the sake of money is it's a trap. I would say that is a lie about money that everyone believes. Like whether you're wealthy or whether you're poor, it's like if someone who's broke wants to get more money, I would love to ask them, why do you want more money?

Starting point is 00:38:38 Like, what is it that you would like that you don't have right now? And if they say, oh, well, I want to go and eat at a steakhouse and I want to have a nicer car and I want to like move into this house, I'd be like, okay, which car, like which steak house? Right, right. Which house do you want to move into? And I'm like, great. Like, let's figure out. I agree with all this. Like, let's figure out a way that you can do that and I want that for you.

Starting point is 00:38:57 But if I ask Graham, why does he want more money? Like, he can't come up. Like, try to answer. What do you want? That house I want. And you can afford that right now. Couldn't. I would be, I would be completely.

Starting point is 00:39:08 stressed out of my mind. I would be. But you're going to be stressed out of your mind in any environment. Whether you had twice the amount of money, you would still be as stressed. I would not. I would not. There's a price point right now where if I bought in that price point and I found a good deal in that range, I wouldn't be stressing about it at all.

Starting point is 00:39:24 But I think that your perspective on it is a little bit too far pushed out of the norm. Like if you ask everybody else that is aware of your financials, Jason Oppenai and I, you said, oh, I wouldn't even think about it. I buy it. that dude is spent $500,000 on a jersey. But it looks like he's living an amazing life. It looks like he's loving life and he's making a ton of money. It would be different if one day I didn't want like, you know, a family.

Starting point is 00:39:47 He is just Jason. He is just chilling. It's just him. He doesn't have to worry about taking care of anyone. He is just living life. And everything he has is just a bonus. Well, you guys have interviewed a lot of guests and some of the guests are reckless with their spending. Like I think I watched that Togi one or maybe some other.

Starting point is 00:40:02 Togi for sure. Yeah, Togi. So like, is there a balance? I'm just saying that I think Togi's extreme in the same way that I think you and Graham are extreme. Graham spends 0.5% of his portfolio and saves 100% of his net business income. That's insane. To me, that makes no sense. Maybe it's more than that. I don't know what the what the percentage is. Yeah. So how do we change, Jack? How do we do it? I don't know how to change. Like for me, I think like my entire life, I always ask myself the question of like, why am I doing something? And if I can't come up with a good

Starting point is 00:40:34 answer, then I have zero motivation. Maybe it's an ADHD thing. Like, ADHD is essentially, like, your dopamine receptors are bad. Dopamine is motivation. It's not necessarily happiness, although they sometimes feel like the same thing. So, like, if I can't motivate myself to do something, the only way I can get motivation is if I have a good answer of why I'm doing it, I'm not going to do it. And the same thing applies to everything I do. Like, if I want to make more money, even if it's like doing consulting and maybe the rate is like something incredible, that like, oh, I could go buy this and I could buy this and I've wanted this. Like, if I just don't want to do it. I don't know. I can't motivate myself to do something just for the sake of doing it.

Starting point is 00:41:09 Like, I want to have a reason for everything that I do. It's like being intentional about things. Also, math. Like, math is a very, very easy justifier for me spending money on things. It's very easy. Like, I will spend $100 to save an hour of my time. Yeah. Yeah, you're putting math, though, above behavior. And as Dave Ramsey would say, I think behavior always trumps math every single time. people default to their behavior. Yeah, but like, what if your behavior is rooted in math? Well, that's you. Then there you go, Jack.

Starting point is 00:41:39 That's your answer. But if you talk to most people, it's going to be a behavior. It's going to be something emotional. And I think that is inherited from your parents. I think it's just, that's just how it is, with money at least. I think that if you were talking to a loved one, the rules that you would give to them are different than the rules that you apply for yourself. But I think that's true with a lot of things, right? Like, we're always good at giving advice, but not taking our own.

Starting point is 00:42:02 What were your parents like in terms of spending money? Very frugal. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, like, we grew up in a, you know, middle class family. And then I got older and I realized, okay, we were probably upper middle class, not upper class, but upper middle class. But we never went on any vacations.

Starting point is 00:42:17 And the few vacations that we did go on were paid for by other people. And the only vacations we did were camping trips. Oh. So, like, I never had, I didn't get an iPhone until super, super, super, super late in life. I never had, like, the newest gaming console. Like, I always, like, was far behind the curve. and so like growing up with very frugal parents, I realized, okay, like I need to figure out

Starting point is 00:42:35 how to make money so I can afford the things I want to afford. And I grew up very frugally because of them. Like, I repeated that. But then I asked my dad on this drive we were going to go play pickleball and I asked him, hey, dad, like if you could go back at time

Starting point is 00:42:45 and change anything, what would you have done? He said, well, maybe I would have started living a little bit earlier. Living a little. Was money a big topic for you guys growing up? No, we wouldn't really talk about it. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it was just very frugal.

Starting point is 00:42:55 You had to, like, formulate your own thoughts about money probably when you're, yeah, but like, but I think that like, I realize that I can't just continue saving money for the sake of money. Like, I don't like looking at a bank account and just seeing it go up. That's not exciting for me. Meanwhile, Jack, you're showing me your numbers. Be like, yo, I just did it.

Starting point is 00:43:11 Yeah, like, that's cool. But it's cool because it's not cool when the S&P 500 goes up and I own S&P 500. I like it if I'm like, I want to start selling options on this stock. And then I see that that strategy worked out. It's like, yeah, it's like it's growth. It's something that's experimental. That's fun. Well, see, I would, I want, okay, so now I want to ask the same question in Graham,

Starting point is 00:43:28 which is that did your parents stress money growing up? Because maybe this is where we are very similar. My dad was always talking about money. Like he would not. Like that was his favorite time. No, my parents never talked about money. And I didn't. I was just always inherently a saver of everything.

Starting point is 00:43:46 Like my parents did go through money problems, but I was not aware of it. Like you would have no idea as like a five or six. So when you wanted like a video game or something when you were 10, what would you do? Did you say, mom, I want this? Usually they would say you have to, like, wait for Christmas or like, oh, your birthday's in a few months and you'll have to wait for then. But it was all, like, I never wanted anything expensive. It was maybe like a Game Boy or like a new Nintendo 64 game. They were like 60 Box.

Starting point is 00:44:16 And it was always like, oh, we'll wait for Christmas or maybe your grandma will buy that for you. So you kind of learned delayed gratification at the young age. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, certainly. But by the time I figured out they had, you know, some. money problem. I was like 15, 16, 17. And by then my habits are all ready, like, very frugal. I was just naturally just wired, I think, to like accumulate and save. Yeah, I find that some people are like,

Starting point is 00:44:40 I was a squirrel on a past life. It's just like finding the nuts and just bearing him away. He loves nuts. He really loves wrapping them. Yeah. You got to edit a squirrel on your face right now. That's be funny. But I was always the same. Like, I remember just getting birthday money, Christmas. money like just things like this and I wouldn't spend it I would keep it in an envelope uh on like a dresser cabinet and I would just just keep adding I like adding to it I think some people are wired to save yeah some people are wired to spend and I don't know what you are you're kind of like in the middle you're a weird hybrid you're a mutant I would say I felt like I was wired to like to save but then I just sort of changed because I realized I wasn't very happy doing that

Starting point is 00:45:21 and yes I still save and I say very aggressively but I'm not going to ever hesitate at something that would like make my life a little bit more comfortable when the math makes sense. Okay. And you? Oh, I'm definitely wired as a saver. And are you happy with that? So far I've lived a pretty happy life. But yeah, I think to your point, I could live a little bit more for sure.

Starting point is 00:45:39 Like I was talking to my girlfriend about what you said last night. And she was like, you do whatever you want to do. But still, it's like, you know, I just want to be responsible with the money because it's like, I don't know. She's like, you do whatever you want to. But those lie flat seats sound awesome. Yeah. That sounds great. It's like a philosophical argument.

Starting point is 00:45:57 I think that being a good steward of money is to like be intentional about it. And I think that it's unconscious behavior. I think it lacks intentionality to just say every dollar that I get, I'm immediately going to throw into this index fund past a certain point. Obviously this like this conversation does not apply to many people. It's like if you are if you are a crazy spender, then you should be more intentional about your money. If you are a crazy saver, you should be more intentional about. You know what's interesting in the index group. There's a link down below in the description.

Starting point is 00:46:29 It's a group of like 30 high-level entrepreneurs, business owners. Someone provided, I'll do a shout out here, his spending fund sheet. Oh, yeah, I like that. It was really interesting. And it was almost a tax bracket of how much you could spend guilt-free guaranteed. And the money comes off the top into an account that's purposely meant to spend. And obviously, if you don't spend at all, it rolls over. to the next year, but it's money specifically just earmarked for whatever.

Starting point is 00:47:00 Yes. And it was interesting, but like up to the first $150,000, it was like 5%. And then from 150 to $500,000 of income, it went to like 10%. And then incrementally after that. And then like above, you know, a million dollars a year, it was 25%. And just kept going up all the way to 95%. Yeah. So everything earned above X amount, 95% of that is meant for fun.

Starting point is 00:47:24 is like a bonus, like we don't need that much more, so we may as well just enjoy it. I thought that was quite interesting. And that might be a good way to go about it. It's just to say, hey, based on a percentage, 3% no matter what, I'm putting it aside of 5%, 10%, whatever it might be, I got to find a way to spend that. Yeah, I talk to a lot of people that have the same saver gene that we do.

Starting point is 00:47:45 And that's kind of what I tell them too, is like set aside 5% of your paycheck every month and just be like, that's the money you can spend. So maybe I should do that. You tell all of them, but you know that. Maybe I save aside zero percent. Zero. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:47:56 It's unconscious. So what do you think is the best way to save money? Tracking, automating, tracking and automating. That's what I would do. How do you track and automate? So I track everything manually because I'm OCD about it. But every expense, I log in an app, especially discretionary expenses. So that goes into my spending tracker app.

Starting point is 00:48:17 But I've had it since 2014. I've tracked every expense since 2014. And then at the end of every month, I put that into a spreadsheet. And I do all my categories. I just kind of see how the trends go in terms of discretionary spending. And I have a sheet for every year. So 2026, 2025, all the way to 2014. And so that's how I track my expenses.

Starting point is 00:48:36 And that's what got me in a great place of saving initially in 2014. And I just haven't stopped because it's now a habit. May I provide a piece of unsolicited advice? You have already done a lot of that today. I've found a way for you to spend some money. a bookkeeper. I have a bookkeeper. Oh, but they don't do that for you?

Starting point is 00:48:55 Not my personal expenses. Some of this, though, is important psychologically that you go through your own expenses. Yeah. Like, it's like trying to outsource, you know, tracking your meals throughout the day. It's like something that you need to be made aware of to make the decisions that help you long term. I would argue I've probably overdone it at this point. You know, 2014 until now is 12 years.

Starting point is 00:49:18 I probably had overdone it after four years to be. honest. But at that point, I was like, well, I'm just, I'm so addicted to this or not really addicted. It's such an ingrained habit that I'm just doing it. And I like seeing my spreadsheet, so that's also part of it. What do you get from it? What does it tell you? What do you learn? Perspective. I love perspective. So like, anytime I'm feeling bad about my financial situation or where I'm at where I'm at in life, I look at this sheet and I'm like, oh, like, five years ago, me would have been really happy with where I am today. And sometimes it gives you some perspective and some pause is like, oh, you're actually, you're doing good, you're doing well. You're like

Starting point is 00:49:49 progressing. And, you know, I even do that with my YouTube stats. So, like, I have a spreadsheet from, like, 20, 21 of, like, all the videos we posted, how many views they got after 30 days, seven days, 24 hours. And I'm looking at this. I'm like, okay, well, the floor of views is going up. So back in 2021, maybe I got 10,000 views after 30 days. And now it's like 130,000. I'm like, oh, this looks great. So every time I think I'm failing at something, I can look at this sheet and just like, oh, you know, you're not doing too bad. Why do you think that you're failing at things? I don't know. I have this constant stress cloud above my head thinking like I'm not doing enough or like doing doing well enough or I kind of really like working too.

Starting point is 00:50:29 I have the like this work ethic. I have like this desire to keep going. Probably comparison to like comparisons to like comparisons to Theath of Joy. But sometimes I look at what other creators are doing or what other successful people are doing or stuff like that. And I'm like, dang, what can that be me? but I already have a great life, so it's like, ah, I could use some more of Jack. Jack, I need more Jack in my life. Would you say that you were wealthy?

Starting point is 00:50:56 No, half the time, maybe. Half, so you don't have a resolute answer. No, I don't have a resolute answer. I don't think I'm wealthy. If someone else had your exact financials, would you call them wealthy? Income, network. I'd say they're wealthy or doing very well, yeah, sure. But I do not feel wealthy.

Starting point is 00:51:15 And Graham, do you feel wealthy? No, the answer is always, the answer for feeling wealthy is always double from what you currently have is technically when people say they feel wealthy and it's always double. But shouldn't that tell you something? Like, isn't there something to be drawn from that? You know what it is? I think it's just humility. I think as soon as you say, yeah, I feel wealthy. It's just an ego thing.

Starting point is 00:51:41 It's not about expressing this to a million people, but it's about feeling happy and comfortable. I don't know, man. I just think there's so much value in a, you know, a dollar that you just got to be... I feel wealthy in time right now, which I think is good, which is like in the flexibility of my time and the choices I make with my time. And I think that's the ultimate goal anyway. So in terms of that, yeah, I think I've already kind of won the game there. But in terms of like monetary value, I feel like maybe not as wealthy as other people, but maybe their time isn't as free. Do you have any tips or secrets for saving money that have worked really well for you?

Starting point is 00:52:22 I used to put like cash in an envelope, like on a monthly basis and just like, you know, like extra cash that I would have. I just put it in an envelope and just kind of put it away and just out of sight, out of mind. And then at the end of like, you know, six months, you look at this envelope and it's got like $800 or $10,000, you know, $1,000. It's really nice. Where do you get cash? Like, I just don't see cash.

Starting point is 00:52:45 I got $600 on me right now. I love cash. Why do you keep cash? I don't know. I was always taught that, like, a gentleman should have cash just for, like, you know, like, random opportunities. Opportunities? I thought you were going to say, like, oh, for, like, tipping people out or for, like.

Starting point is 00:53:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean by opportunities. Like, tipping people out or, like, let's say. Oh, it's not like cutting a deal somewhere. No, no. Or, like, you know, sometimes you're in Chinatown and they take cash only. Or, like, last night, we went to a talkeria, cash only, right? And debit.

Starting point is 00:53:14 And debit. But still, like, I had cash, even if we were screwed. So if someone's dissatisfied with where they're at financially and maybe it's their spending problem, let's say realistically, if you're listening and you're dissatisfied with where you're at financially, let's all agree. It's probably a spending problem. 80% of the time. It's a spending problem, 20% in income problem. If you're one of these 80%, what would you recommend they use for payments? Should they pay for everything with a credit card, debit card, cash? Should they pay for everything? What would you recommend them to pay for things? Well, as a blanket statement, yeah, debit or cash. That's a blanket statement for everybody. Obviously, everyone's, everyone's, different. I'm not going to say everyone should use a credit card and get that 2% cash back because really if you have a spending problem, that 2% is going to make a big difference, right? Is this a good strategy? Like should people employ actually going back and paying in cash? I mean, if it physically pains you to give that cash up, then yeah, or debit at least, so that you can't overspend, yeah. I tend to agree with that. The studies show that people

Starting point is 00:54:08 are more willing to spend money if it's on a credit card than they will be if it's actually with like physical cash or on a debit card. Or these days it's tap to pay, so it's even worse. Oh, yeah, because it doesn't even feel like you're spending money. And I've spent, you know, a day's worth of transactions once. I'm like, I don't even remember these because you just kind of... You know, it's pretty soon it's all going to be AI for spending? You're just going to be able to walk in, take something off the shelf, put it in a cart, walk out. There's going to be no tap to pay, no credit card.

Starting point is 00:54:37 That's what Amazon tried to do. But remember, it was just like people watching the groceries, the grocery shoppers from, like, another country. For now, for now. For now. But eventually it's going to get good. enough. Yeah, yeah. Were they're going to make it so seamless?

Starting point is 00:54:50 You're just going to look at your statement and be like, how did I spend $800 today? Yeah. But you're just like picking things and walking around with them. And then that's it. The obstacle to spend has drastically decreased. That was in a unique glow in Japan. You go and you get this basket, throw a bunch of clothes in. And at checkout, you literally just plop the basket on this thing, like on the saucer.

Starting point is 00:55:09 And it reads all of the tags in the basket. And then it's just like, here you go, tap the thing. And then you pay. And I spent like $100. I didn't even need to get the thing scanned. I didn't need to talk to an attendant. I didn't do any of that. I just dropped my basket in the thing.

Starting point is 00:55:23 It scanned it immediately just tapped, walked out. Yeah, that's crazy. It takes like a minute to leave this store after you've picked out your things before you've paid. It's crazy. So yeah, I would say that cash. Spend with cash. If people were to walk away from this podcast with one idea,

Starting point is 00:55:37 what would it be? They could categorize every single thing they want to spend money on and add 20% to what they are currently spending on those things. So let's say you put in an Excel spreadsheet, you write down rent, food, transportation, recreation, whatever it is. You have that in column. Add 20% or even up to 50% and just total how much you would need. It's usually a lot less than you would think. And so like that's an experiment that I challenge a lot of people to do, which is like, oh, give me an idea of your annual expenses

Starting point is 00:56:10 for your, like not your dream life, but like your target life, like where you would like to be. And then give me basically the same column of your dream life. You know, I want to spend from $3,000 a month in rent to $5,000 a month in rent or $8,000 a month in rent. And do that for every single category. It's usually a lot less than you would think. And I think that helps a lot of people understand, like, they don't have to swing for the fences or, like, do the yellow sports betting in order to get there. They can do it with discipline and investing. And maybe I could take some of that own medicine myself.

Starting point is 00:56:43 How often do you see people trying to look rich? In San Francisco, not often. In fact, it's the opposite there. You want to look poor. The poorer you look in San Francisco, the richer you are, which is so messed up. But it's absolutely true. Like I've seen some people looking like slabs and they've got like $20 billion. You know, I saw this funny chart.

Starting point is 00:57:03 It was a bell curve. And instead of the left side was just someone looking homeless. And then it was the guy with the Lambo and the suit. And then it went down to the billionaires and it was like the homeless again. Yeah, yeah. there's a famous tweet. It's like the five levels of wealth. And, you know, it's like level one, you have a time X. Level two, you have, I don't know what it is. Like an omega, level three, Rolex, level four, Pat Tech Philippe, level five, Apple Watch. You know, it's like, yeah, it's just like

Starting point is 00:57:28 that. So I agree. I think it's such a power move to be able to walk in anywhere with sweatpants and a just kind of raggedy t-shirt. Yeah, sometimes the sweatpants with a raggedy t-shirt and holes, those guys have a lot of them. Why don't you have a raggedy, do you feel like you're not there yet? What do you mean, a raggedy t-shirt? Yeah, the thing that you just said. You should see me when I'm not going and film on a podcast. Usually when I'm coming in here, we're filming. Dude, I've seen you. I've seen you before, like when I lived with you.

Starting point is 00:57:54 I saw it when you're, I feel like, okay. Yeah, that's, dude, that one. You know, it's hilarious, actually. Oh, man, you're probably not going to be okay with me doing this, but I, to me, you're not going to be okay with me saying we're doing this, but we were in L.A. for an index meeting, and you were reaching to the back of the car to grab something, and your shirt was kind of cropped, and it came up a little bit. Oh, Macy's going to hate this.

Starting point is 00:58:14 And your underwear was peeking out from your pants. And your underwear had a gaping hole about this big on it. I remember that, yeah. And I couldn't believe it. And I actually took a picture. So, like, you, it's like he was trying to flaunt it because he was, I don't know why he was reaching in the back of the car for as long as he was. But he was. And I was able to get my phone out and take a picture because he had a huge hole in it.

Starting point is 00:58:38 And I'm like, dude. And this is what I said. I literally said, hey, Graham, like, let's be honest. Cheap, not frugal. But you are wearing underwear with huge holes in it, dude. It's because it's functional. It's still works. It's not functional, bro.

Starting point is 00:58:52 It's like your naked butt is touching your pants. It was a whole like this. Let's refer to the picture, dude. Yeah, it's maybe this big on an iPhone. Like, yeah. So like, realistic. And you know what I said? I was like, dude, I'm going to buy you some new underwear.

Starting point is 00:59:05 And so I texted our, I texted. I know, I texted our contractor. I was like, hey, can you run out to like Costco to get some new underwear? They didn't have like extra smaller whatever I thought your size of you said. So I swear. No, it's not messed up because he is. But I did ask. I was like, can you?

Starting point is 00:59:19 And I was like, I was like, all pay for it. Because I was trying to buy you underwear to show you like, dude, you should not be wearing underwear with huge holes in at this point. So he's talking a big game. I never got. They didn't have an extra small. Somebody send Graham some underwear. There's a very specific underwear I like. It's the Kirkland signature premium, whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:59:35 I don't want the same money you have. It's not the ones that I personally, you know, took off my body, you know, but. I used to wear holes with holes. in them too, like undershirts, like when I was in high school. And, yeah, I had a close girlfriend of mine tell me, like, that's not cool. I'm like, you can't do that. And how did that feel? I was like, thank you.

Starting point is 00:59:56 So you were receptive to it? Yeah, I needed that. Yeah. Would you wear underwear with holes in it? No. No holes. It's functional. Dude, I was talking.

Starting point is 01:00:10 I was talking about shirts if they get a little shrunk. I just don't like that anymore. How many holes does your underwear need until you determine it is not functional? When it's like, when it's unusable. When it's more than 50% holes than actual fabric. Yeah, I would say is a good, probably 35. You got to cut it off there. So if it's a tiny hole, you're okay with it.

Starting point is 01:00:31 Do you think there's a good way for people to look rich for cheap? Maybe just the way they carry themselves. I mean, you can get away with a lot of stuff. You just carry yourself like you look rich. Yeah. So that's the cheapest way. You just look like you belong there. I love these videos.

Starting point is 01:00:47 I see them all the time of like five cars to get under $30,000 that make you look rich. And you get served those videos? All the time. And it's like an old Mercedes 500 SL. Yeah. Or you could get like a Maserati used. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:03 Those depreciate like crazy. Older Aston Martins. Good prices. Older BMWs. Yep. Great. And then in terms of like clothing, a lot of it's just like getting cheap clothes that you could tailor a little bit.

Starting point is 01:01:18 Yeah, well tailored clothes. Yeah. Sometimes like someone's wearing a well tailored shirt. I can't tell if it's Laurel Piano or whatever, you know, just like a really cheap brand that looks good. Yeah. That's funny. Mercedes S-classes, too. They depreciate pretty well.

Starting point is 01:01:32 Part of me is so tempted just to buy one. Yeah. Because I see them on Facebook Marketplace. And some of them I see $18 to $22,000. But no one that's watching this podcast wants to look rich. They just want to be rich. It's tempting for me to want that S-class Mercedes because they're like 20 grand. And these cars were like $150,000 new.

Starting point is 01:01:50 Yeah. And they look pretty good. And it's like, you're driving on an S class. That's pretty cool. For 20 grand. How many cars do you have? Do you want people to know that you are rich, though? How many cars do you have?

Starting point is 01:02:03 If I get rid of the Tesla. He thinks that because, like, the market says something is worth 20 grand, that, like, it's worth 20 grand to him. But I'm like, dude, you don't, you don't touch 75% of your cars. For 20 grand is a lot of car. You would not have a place to park it. You'd be asking if you could park it in my car. My space. Graham's a car guy.

Starting point is 01:02:22 My space. You've always been a car guy. Yeah, I like that. He has been a car guy. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So if you say that people tune into this episode, not because they want to look rich, but because they want to be rich, let's talk about the ways that people can actually be rich in

Starting point is 01:02:37 26. What are the best things that someone can do if you're talking to someone 18 to 35, they got some time on their hands. Maybe they're working a job part time. Between the podcast and all of the different businesses we run, I was seeing a lot of very sensitive personal information of me being leaked online to websites I have never even heard of. It's honestly scary how much data these companies have on you without you even knowing it until it's too late. That is why we are so excited to partner with their sponsor, Incogni.

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Starting point is 01:04:46 reset. Call 1-88-78-8-8-8-9-7-77-visit CCPGg.org slash chat, Connecticut. Visit MDGamblinghelp.org. Visit Gamblinghelpline, MA, dot-Rourg. Call 800-3-2-7-50-50, Massachusetts. Call 18-7-N-Y. Text Hope NY, New York. Call 18-7-7-N-Y-N-Y-N. What are the best things that someone can do? If you're talking to someone 18 to 35, they got some time on their hands, maybe they're working a job part-time. I've always thought that content creation is a great way to get, you make one copy of something and it can be viewed, you know,

Starting point is 01:05:22 a million times. So zero cost of marginal replication, right? Like, just like software. So I'd say like if you're young and you're like looking for something to look to do on the side, you want to build some sort of skill that can pay you well in the marketplace,

Starting point is 01:05:35 coding. You could do, you could do podcasts or content, but that's a lot harder that, you know, we've acknowledged that that's a lot harder these days because of of saturation. But you need some sort of skill that commands a lot of money in the market, which means that it has to make a lot of money somewhere down the line in the whole life cycle

Starting point is 01:05:52 of whatever you're doing, right? What do you think of becoming an AI consultant? We've had a few people on the podcast who say you could make $8 to $10,000 a month, becoming an AI consultant, setting up processes, systems for businesses. I agree. I think that's like a huge asymmetry right now, right? Just like if you were joining TikTok in 2019, there were no, there were We're hardly any creators on there, right? So there's this mismatch in the market. You have all these people wanting to watch TikTok in 2019, not a lot of creators. So immediately you just got all this demand.

Starting point is 01:06:23 Same thing with small businesses, they're not on AI. Like these are mom and pop shops. So if you're like the AI consultant and you can AIify their business, then great. Like property management companies could probably use an AIify person. Yeah. And a lot of that stuff can be automated or agentic. How often are side hustles worth it? If they pay you,

Starting point is 01:06:43 more than your hourly rate, I think they are worth it. So let's say you make 25 bucks an hour and you can do a side hustle that pays you 35. I think it's worth it. Or you're flipping stuff on Facebook marketplace and maybe you make 100 bucks for three hours of work, 33 bucks now. I still think that's worth it because it's maybe fun for you too, right? So it also depends on how fun it is. What do you think? Generally not worth it. Okay, why? I think you get way more value doing what you're already doing, but to a better degree. And that's even if you can pick up extra hours at the job you already have, I think that would yield probably a better result. And I think even if you were to work harder without

Starting point is 01:07:25 compensation early on, I think you'll see a better long-term outlook. Okay. What if you're a server at like Applebee's? And you want, you can either pick up more hours for 20 bucks an hour or you can do a side hustle. I would say the side hustle needs to then be a hobby or something that you would be doing regardless that hopefully makes money or something that you're uniquely good at. Okay. I think most people have something that they're just better than average at. Like, Jack, for instance, would do really well as a side hustle charging for pickleball lessons. Like that's one of the things. Like, if he was just like just a random guy or whatever, I think you would do really well

Starting point is 01:08:07 and all these like 70 year olds who want to play pickleball hire Jack at like 50 bucks an hour to teach them how to play in strategy I think he would do really well If you want pickleball lessons in Las Vegas you know where to find me Instagram link down below JLSS I'll see why

Starting point is 01:08:19 Which side hustles are not worth it Hmm Drop shipping Is that a side hustle? Drop shipping day trading Drop shipping day trading 4X Anything where you can lose money

Starting point is 01:08:30 I think Yes but you would say something like Turro might be worth it or Uber might be worth it. Like, I would argue in a lot of those times, it's probably not worth it when you account for depreciation,

Starting point is 01:08:40 some of the work involved. Yeah, Uber's tough because you have to figure out what your effective hours, you know, dollars per hour after depreciation and gas and all that stuff. So, yeah, I think,

Starting point is 01:08:50 I think maybe Uber's not worth it, but anything that's not scalable. Yeah, anything that's not scalable or, like, doesn't, or, like, makes you more tired for your main hustle where you're not performing as good. So, like, an example would be in Vegas,

Starting point is 01:09:04 it's 100 degrees out. If you're power washing sidewalks, you're going to be tired for your job later. It's just, it's 100 degrees out. How are you not going to be tired? I think that would affect your main job, right? So at that point, probably not something like that. Now, speaking of cars,

Starting point is 01:09:19 with car payments hitting a record high, why do you think so many people are willing to go broke for their car? Well, median prices of cars have gone up by a lot. So, like, that's definitely number one. Number two, probably just social, social status and looks. I'm guessing it's probably a look-smaxing thing. Like, if you want to show up to your office and you're driving a beater, like that doesn't look optically as good.

Starting point is 01:09:43 But if you're showing up in like the newest Subaru, which could run you 50K these days, MSRP, like that car payments can be high. So it also depends on their interest rate, right? Interest rates are really high right now and their term. I have a theory that housing has gotten so unaffordable that a lot of people have just said, I'm never going to be able to afford a house, but I could buy this really cool car. I agree.

Starting point is 01:10:05 And now that's within reach. Or I could buy this really cool card or this collectible or this thing or this watch. I could afford all these things but not the house. So I may as well just kind of get what's in reach. You think it's status or you think it's within reach stuff? I think it's within reach. But I also think it's a status thing. But I think mostly because lending standards for cars are like just, it's wild.

Starting point is 01:10:27 Yeah. What they can just approve you for. And they don't have as strict underwriting requirements as a house does. that's right with a house they have very strict underwriting requirements right you you need to be you need to have like a certain debt to income ratio but with the car it's like whatever it's like oh you got good credit here here's a loan i love these videos i also get these on instagram of the car dealer uh oh yeah when they go and they're like what's your car payment no no no it's the dealer yeah we just got this person a new dodgs challenger you will not believe the deal that they got they got a purchase price of $45,000 zero percent down 35 percent interest with monthly payments and $1,000 for the next six dollars for the next six dollars for the next six dollars for the next six dollars for the next six dollars for the next seven years. Yeah, they don't ever say the interest, but it's always like, yeah, zero down. Yeah. No money down. No credit. And the loan term is like 20 years. Yeah. But, and then you see this, this guy probably shouldn't be driving a Corvette, driving a brand new Corvette. Yeah. Like a very nice one, too. Yeah. Or it's like, or it's like a brand new Mercedes SUV. Sure. Yeah. And, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:26 but those people can't afford a house in any market. Like, even if housing was more affordable, they would still not be able to afford a house. I would, air a little bit more on the side of like, hey, it's marketing, it's consumerism. And a lot of people want things because they're told they should want it or because people that they're around also want the same thing. Yeah, I agree. And so like a lot of it's hobby hopping and, yes, people may be buying cars because they can't afford the house that they would have been otherwise able to afford. But realistically, they're just overspend. What car purchase immediately tells you that someone's bad with money? Maybe like a Dodge Hellcat. Those are like the number

Starting point is 01:12:00 one repoed car, right? I think the number one repossessed car or the most stolen. It's like a challenger. It might be the most stolen. I feel like it's a challenger or like a charger. It's one of those. It's a dodge of some sort usually.

Starting point is 01:12:12 Yeah. The thing is like if here's an interesting thought provoking thing. You say Graham that people are buying cars because they cannot afford houses. But the same people that are buying cars because they can't afford houses are not able to afford the cars that they're buying.

Starting point is 01:12:26 But they're able to get it. They're not even able to get the house. That's a good point. Because otherwise they would just get the house. They're able to sneak their way into... But also, if they were to sneak their way into the house, then they would be doomed just the same. No, the house... They're stretching for something that they shouldn't be stretching. The house would probably retain more value than the car would.

Starting point is 01:12:44 That's true. That's true. Car would be worth a lot less. When do you think it's worth it to buy versus lease a car? Buying is almost always better than leasing, in my opinion, financially. But people have different priorities or people might only want the car for two years because of business reasons or whatever it may be or they can write right off the lease payments or they don't like maintenance so they want the newest newest car so they can have maintenance covered under the

Starting point is 01:13:10 warranty sure i get that but i think in terms of just financially yeah buying a car is the cheapest way there was a moment i was so close to leasing a car it was a year ago and it was a tesla model three when they had the promotional offer of like three hundred and forty nine dollars a month sure zero down for like a brand new Tesla Model 3. And I was doing the math on this thinking, how on earth does this make financial sense? Because buying the car, you would lose more value than you just pay in the least. And the reason they were able to get it down so much is that they were pushing inventory out, getting rid of some of the old stock for the newer cars, and throwing in that $7,500 tax credit.

Starting point is 01:13:52 And then as soon as that went away, yes. And so for a brief period of time, it was cheaper to lose. lease a Tesla Model 3 than buying one. I was also taught by an ex-car dealer. She used to run the McLaren dealership. She just told me on the side, you should probably lease lease. And I think that was just because they're super cars. They depreciated quite quickly, and you're probably not going to want to drive it for longer

Starting point is 01:14:14 than five, ten years. Just lease it. Yeah. Does it ever make sense to get a loan on a car? Oh, like finance a car? Mm-hmm. Depending on the interest rate, yeah. If you can't purchase it outright.

Starting point is 01:14:25 Yeah, I mean, that's what most people do. But does it make sense? Because what most people do does not make sense. I think as long as the monthly payment makes sense for your budget, then that's fine. But obviously, I would want you to pay off your car as quickly as you can, especially with interest rates right now being over 8%, 9% on some certain auto loans. Yeah. But wouldn't it make more sense for them to just buy something that they can afford in cash and then invest the difference? It would.

Starting point is 01:14:47 Yeah, it would if they're willing to. But sometimes, like, let's say your budget's 10K, maybe you can't find a used car that you, maybe the used car that you're probably going to get is like weight. too old or you want something in the middle there. For 10K you could find 2,300 S.00s Mercedes. That's not what you should be buying if it's your first car. Probably not working. Yeah, you're going to have a

Starting point is 01:15:10 1,000 miles, but you look incredible. You're going to have to replace one small sprocket and it's going to cost you $700. A what? A sprocket. It's just like a term for like a It's like a card. Yeah, it's like a widget. It's a widget. Yeah. I've never heard of that before. It's just like it's. I'm sure there's some mechanic out.

Starting point is 01:15:28 a widget, a sprocket. It's like just a small part of the car. It's going to cause you. It's going to cause you up the wazoo. Yeah. You know what that is too? Yeah, it's a lawsuit. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:36 What is the best car to buy in every income bracket? Let's say you're making $50,000 a year. What's the best car to buy? Probably like a Honda Civic. What about $100,000 a year? Oh, at that point, $100,000. Maybe like a Toyota Rav4. $200,000 a year.

Starting point is 01:15:52 Something with a low depreciation rate. Let's think of that. Let's think about that. $200,000 a year. A lot of Toyota SUVs. I think Audis don't really... They do. The Toyota has a strongest resale.

Starting point is 01:16:05 A lot of the Toyota Ravs. Yeah. What about Tesla? I feel like Teslas are becoming more of a budget-friendly car. They are very budget-friendly. They're electric, which is nice. And low maintenance and repair costs. That is true.

Starting point is 01:16:18 And the insurance costs are very cheap if you get it through Tesla insurance. So that's an option. But they do depreciate quite quickly. Unless if you buy a used one. I bought a new Tesla. Unfortunately, it was one of the very few financial mistakes I've ever made in my life. I've made so many really horrible financial mistakes. But it depreciated a lot very quickly.

Starting point is 01:16:37 Yeah. And your resale value, because Tesla is such a dynamic pricing company, it could just go down, like overnight, right? You've seen that a lot where they're just like, they just dropped the price. Or they go up, which is crazy. Right, right. But you're kind of at the wham of Tesla. You know, it's crazy right now. The Tesla Model X has gone up in value 30%.

Starting point is 01:16:55 Should have bought that. of Ethereum. I couldn't. I'm just kidding. It's a meme. It's a meme on Twitter. It's like, oh, this went up 6%. Guess you're outperforming Ethereum for the past 10 years.

Starting point is 01:17:06 Yeah, I couldn't believe it. This is one of the stupid decisions, but I was tracking Tesla values for a year. And I was watching, because here's the thing. I don't need a new car, but I want to upgrade, I want to upgrade my Tesla Model 3 at some point. An S or an X. I just want longer rain. No cyber trick. For the right deal, I would.

Starting point is 01:17:26 Okay. But I mostly in S or an X, and I just want longer range. So I've been tracking the values, and I was doing the math of like, okay, here's how much my car is depreciating in value. Here's how much these are coming down. This is coming down more. I don't need a new car. So I'm just going to wait and sort of throwing some lowball offers on Facebook marketplace, just for fun. Yeah, like local cars.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Wait, just for fun? Like, you have no intention to buying these cars. No, I would buy them. Yeah, but he'd rather spend 90 hours of his time across a year to try to save $400 on a model X. There was a 2022 Tesla Model S. They were asking like $43,000 for this car. And I threw out $38,000. And I'll pick it up this weekend.

Starting point is 01:18:05 And they said no. And they ended up probably selling it like 40. But I thought, hey, at 38, I'd buy this car. So anyway, then Elon announces that they're going to stop making the Model X and the Model S. He goes up. And they shot up in value. The X went up 30%. The S went up about 15%.

Starting point is 01:18:23 And the Model S plaid went up about 20%. And I remember I had an opportunity to buy a 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid, moderate miles, $47,000. That same car today would probably be worth 58. Live and learn. You live and learn. So what did you learn from that then? Maybe I should have just made more offers. More offers.

Starting point is 01:18:50 So it's about the offers. It's not about. Are you more mad that you lost out on the 30%? Or did you want the car? I was more mad about the 30%. But here's the other one. Here's the other regret that I have. Do you see what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:19:05 I know. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm saying the loss is greater of like comfort, of security, of happiness. Like there's value to that. And you have an abundance of money. There is no more value for an extra dollar for you. I'm also happy with my car. Here's where I am upset.

Starting point is 01:19:19 Elon Musk lowered the price of the cyber truck to $59,000. And I was so close to pulling the trigger, but I was watching. the cyber truck values continuing to go down. And I thought, well, in probably a year, I could get the non-budget version of the cyber truck for the same price is the new lower-end one. And so I didn't do it. And then, of course, he raises the price $10,000.

Starting point is 01:19:42 And now all of them are selling for way more. So what do you want at this exact moment? What I would love is a probably a 2023 late model or 24 Tesla model S or X with hardware for for a reasonable price. What is a reasonable price? Market minus 15%. So if anyone in my audience has something that matches that criteria,

Starting point is 01:20:09 preferably California, Arizona, Utah, or Nevada. And you would sell me a car like that. And you have that car that you're just trying to get rid of, but you don't want to deal with the hassle of selling it, putting it up on an auction site, or anything. reach out to me with the email in the description. And the benefit with me is that, you know what's me. I'm not going to like, I'm not going to scam you.

Starting point is 01:20:32 Yeah, he's not going to pay you like drastically under market. No, but, but you flip it and sell it like at market to someone else in the day. Yes, but like you can sell it to end for 15% less. A lot of people don't want, a lot of people don't want to put their car in Facebook market lace and deal with tire kickers and deal with people. And so, and so at least give me the discount of just the convenience of going with me and I'm your buyer. I will take great care of the car.

Starting point is 01:20:54 I'm not a wholesaler. I'm not a flipper. You'll sign a shirt too. I'll sign a shirt. We'll hang out. I think that's a great value. And on top of that, you can also buy his used model three for market plus 15%. It does come with full self-drive.

Starting point is 01:21:10 And it's the famous Graham Steffen car. So he's literally willing to meet with some dude off Facebook marketplace and hang out with him for an hour and a half to save $1,500. Graham is just stub hub. Your stub hub basically. You get the 15% premium on the sale, but you want the 15% discount on the buy. You make money in the spread. Yeah, that's you. You're stub-up.

Starting point is 01:21:31 I would sell my Model 3 for the right price, though. For the right price. But it comes with- What is the right price? What do you think? Okay, so describe what exactly is your model 3? I almost sold my Model 3, and someone was going to pay $20,000 for it. How is it worth $20,000?

Starting point is 01:21:47 Right. So explain what is your model 3, what year, how many miles? It's a 2019, 50,000. 5,000 miles on it with full self-driving. It is the premium plus, I think, is what they called it. What's a market value? Like 18? Probably 18.

Starting point is 01:22:06 The hard part is that it has full self-driving. Okay, got it. And so that, in and of itself, I paid $8,000 for it. Now, it is hard worth three, but the full self-driving, you don't get the full 8,000 when you sell it unless someone really values that full self-driving. And so you have other cars without the full self-driving salt, maybe a little less, some with full self-driving cell a little more. Gotcha. But I had a guy ready to pick it up at 20, and it was me that decided to keep the car, but he wanted to buy it.

Starting point is 01:22:36 Got it. Yeah. Do you think that there are actual, like, tiers to wealth that you could say, pass this amount, like, this is the line that I draw. Pass this amount, yes, before this amount, no. How would you draw true tears to wealth? I think that depends on like what you want to spend in retirement. I think we talked about this a lot, right? But yeah, tier one, 100K.

Starting point is 01:23:00 I like that. I think that's a really good number to get to. 100K in terms of net worth? Yeah. I think that's like the six figure net worth is a goal that everyone can aspire to and probably reasonably hit within a reasonable time frame if they're being disciplined and diligent with their finances. So that's definitely tier one.

Starting point is 01:23:15 And what opens up at this tier? Psychological comfort of knowing you have six figures. Compound interest is a little bit better. at the $100,000 level, especially if you have $100,000 invested, right? We know that. What would be tier two? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:23:31 I think also tier one, like the confidence that you can got there. Like, that's huge. I think a lot of people can't get to the five figure mark. So if you can get to the six figure mark, I think that proves that you are an exceptional accumulator of wealth, at least in some fashion, right?

Starting point is 01:23:44 You can't get there accidentally and you can't get there by spending too much. So it proves to me that you have some sort of discipline. Tier 2. Tier 2 varies. I think Tier 2 is between like 500K to a million. And I think at that level it's like, okay, you could probably reasonably assume, let's say you have 500K and you're, let's say, before the age of 40, you can reasonably assume that this person will get to Coastfire or something like that. And to find Coastfire?

Starting point is 01:24:12 Coastfire is the point at which your investments are right now in which if you never touched it until the age of full retirement age, which is 67, it would. would grow to a full retirement. So let's say a 500K right now, you know with compound interest, 8% returns in the SP 500. By the time you're 67, it'll be worth, you know, whatever, $2.4 million.

Starting point is 01:24:32 And that would cover your retirement traditionally at a 4% withdrawal rate. I think that's a reasonable goal that a lot of people can get to with some diligence. So that's probably like the next big level, like Coast Fire or around 500K. I don't know, 500K is a good psychological level too.

Starting point is 01:24:50 And then maybe like to your 3rd. three, like ultra two or three is like maybe like five mil. And what happens there? I think that that's like just financial freedom pretty much. What do you think? Don't you agree? Like five mil? I feel like $5 million.

Starting point is 01:25:05 I love what you just like. I tend to agree and I think that there are some caveats. But I think that $100,000, yes, I think you've proven to yourself that you have the discipline that is necessary to like actually achieve financial freedom. $500,000. Like it, it bumps your likelihood of financial freedom. let's say at $100,000, it was like 10% or 15%. At $500,000, it's like, okay, you've sustained this for a long enough period of time to be at like 80%, like 85, 90%.

Starting point is 01:25:32 Like that's a huge gap for like a smallish change in numbers. And then, yeah, $5 million, it's like, okay, at a 4% withdrawal where you have $200,000 a year, that's very hard to spend. Yeah. If you have reasonable standards of living. Right. And then pass that, what would you say is like the next level? Dude, I haven't gone that far. I don't think, uh, I've never gotten that far, but, oh, yeah, no, I know what you mean, but, like, I haven't really thought about it because it felt like five million was the frontier number, like, once you get there, it's great. But if I had to give it another number, maybe where like your lifestyle changes so much or like you have the freedom to spend on whatever you want without any repercussions, like 25. 25. Yeah, I feel like 25 is like a good number. I don't know why. It's arbitrary, by the way, 25. So you don't, you never really thought past five million.

Starting point is 01:26:21 No. Why not? I don't know. I never thought I would need more than $5 million. But now that you have $5 million, do you think past it? Well, you don't know if I have $5 million. Oh, am I not allowed to say that? No, you can say it. Okay. So, like, do you think past it? Yeah, I've, like thought past it, but I'm like, how is that going to materially change my life so much?

Starting point is 01:26:42 I don't really know. Life flats? Live flats. Probably lie flat seats. It's tough, though, in San Francisco. In San Francisco, three and a half gets you a house, like, immediately. a mediocre house. A two-bedroom, one bathroom, 1100 square foot house

Starting point is 01:26:55 in a decent area. Yeah, I mean, like 10, 20, anything in the double-digit millions would be really nice, you know, you could probably buy a house in cash, chill.

Starting point is 01:27:07 That's probably where it's at. And then maybe the next tier is like when you can afford a private jet, which is like, you know, 150. Do you ever aspire to have that level of wealth?

Starting point is 01:27:14 I think it's an aspiration, but, you know, if I don't get there, it's fine. It's an aspiration when you're sitting on the tarmac waiting for a delay. But then you're like, well, you know, you have to make so much, you know, it's exponential.

Starting point is 01:27:30 How much more money you have to even to even have the private jet low, unless you do like net jets or something. So what aspirations do you still have at your current net worth? My current aspiration is that I really like making content. I still enjoy it. I'm sure Graham you enjoy it too. And I like helping people with their finances. Like anytime someone comes up to me and says, oh, your video helped me invest or your video helped me figure out my budget better.

Starting point is 01:27:55 Like I feel like that's my purpose. So I want to see how far I can take it. So maybe my aspiration is just like reaching more people and building out more of a business around that in like a way that's not just like something, you know, snake oil. No, no, no, no. So you would just say that you're very satisfied and content with where you're at right now. Yeah. But then how do we juxtapose that with what you were saying earlier this episode? How you were like, I constantly feel an urge like I need to be working.

Starting point is 01:28:20 I need to be saving more money. I need to be doing this. I'm not doing well enough. Yeah, I think maybe that's like me balancing my professional aspirations and career with like my overall life satisfaction and happiness. Like overall, I'm like, yeah, I'm like a generally happy person. So it's hard to take that away from me. But I am stressed because I still have these aspirations to like build a fulfilling,

Starting point is 01:28:41 you know, content business. And what aspirations do you have, Graham? I probably want to find something else other than the main channel to, to fill my time. Well, you have this, but something else. Something in addition. I want to keep growing something. And I feel like I've capped out on that main channel to the point where it's a little

Starting point is 01:29:06 repetitive for me. Yeah. The podcast I love, but it's not as like intense. I think you like building things. I think you like seeing things go from zero to one. Yeah, I think so. So like you just like seeing that increase. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:22 Like you would probably get a lot of satisfaction out of growing a channel from like zero to 10K more than you would, seeing that number going from five to six million. I'm trying to put some of that energy right under the memberships and like really taking that over and doing a lot on that because I think there's a lot of potential to go from zero one. Right. On the membership side of things.

Starting point is 01:29:42 And so if you want to join the memberships, by the way, I'm putting all my resources behind that. And so there's a lot of extra content that you'll get with that. And I check my phone like every few hours for comments. He is. He's always on his phone. And we'll have a post show short conversation with Humphrey just talking about a bunch of other random stuff.

Starting point is 01:29:59 So you can also watch it there. Yeah. So that's probably where I'm going to be putting focus on. Other than that, man, you know what? Like, I had this, like, I really like getting into art and music. And so I've always wanted to do those things. But they just, I could never do them because they just don't. It sounds awful, but like I can't quite monetize it.

Starting point is 01:30:19 And I feel like I'm just spinning wheels if I'm not like making money doing something. So if I like, if you're doing something for fun, you're like, yeah, I could be making money right now. Yeah. I look at the opportunity cost of like if I'm, let's just say I put together a band. Yeah. And I'm playing drums in a band and we're like, you know, rocking out and like a corner of the house or whatever. Then I'm like, okay, well, I spent a few hours doing this. So I could have done all these other things or like, I know exactly how it feels.

Starting point is 01:30:47 Do you know how that feels or something? Do you know how that feels or no? Maybe a couple years ago. I was more familiar with that. But I think I just got to the point where like, working for the sake of just working. Like, I don't, what's interesting is that, like, Graham will come into the warehouse and we'll work for a couple hours, and he'll be like, dude, I feel like I've been here for two

Starting point is 01:31:07 hours and I haven't done anything. And I'm like, okay, well, like, what would you like to do? He's like, I don't know, let's put this shelf up. And then we'll put a shelf up. And then after that, he'll be like, okay, I feel good. I feel like we got something done today. Like, I'm glad I came in today because we checked the box. And I'm like, that's, I don't feel like.

Starting point is 01:31:24 Like, my happiness is tied to like putting up a shelf or like like checking a box of like, oh, well, I got this work done today. Yes, well, I'll feel better if I get more work done in a day as opposed to less. Like, yeah, sure, absolutely. But I also like, there are other things that I enjoy doing aside from working and like making money. You don't want to waste time. If I sit around doing nothing for an hour, I'm like, I just wasted an hour of my life. I'm never going to get that back. But at least if I put up a shelf or I did something that I did.

Starting point is 01:31:53 That's the thing that I would question with that is, like, don't you think at a certain point, like, if Warren Buffett, who's worth, let's say, $100 billion is, you know, near his deathbed, unfortunately, but like he's getting older, if he spends an entire day going over the financial statements of a company as opposed to spending time with his family, is that a wasted day? Is that wasted time? Yeah, but I'm not spending time with my family here. I'm just sitting on the couch, just like twiddling my thumbs just trying to think of something to do. Exactly, but I think that like, I think that the same rule could be effectively applied to your situation where it's like, if you're not working, time is being wasted. Just like you said, if you're not like, you would not enjoy jamming out, even though you love playing the drums and you've played for most of your life, you love all of these things in life. But you will not let yourself enjoy it because you feel like it's wasted time. We should be saving this for the post show. Yeah, realistically, because then we're going to go off on a long tangent here. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:47 I know what you mean, though. It's like opportunity costs of time. you don't really think about it too much, Jack, but I think Graham and I probably think about it, which is like my current hour could be used for something more productive, right? And productivity makes me feel good at the end of the day. Like, when I have a really good productive day,

Starting point is 01:33:03 I feel really good about myself. Usually the days where I'm having a, quote, bad day is when I'm staring at the computer trying to do something and nothing's coming out. And it's been like four hours of me just sitting there. I'm like, oh, now I feel like I wasted this time. And I also wasted the opportunity to, like, go do something else.

Starting point is 01:33:18 All right, we got to get back on track here about like finances. It's very difficult because we've spent a lot of time together. It's like we always want to talk about the philosophical, psychological things. We got to get back to finances because we know that's what you guys want. What is the perfect portfolio for someone watching this right now? Moderately conservative. I'd probably say 90% stocks, 10% other. Other could be if they're more conservative, fixed income.

Starting point is 01:33:41 Other could be if they're more aggressive, speculative assets. But yeah, I think if you're young and you're making money, 90 to 100, percent equities, it's probably fine. And what do you mean equities? Like, how do you determine which stocks you would want to buy? Most of the time, just S&P 500 is, is good enough. Is that what you do personally? That is not what I do personally. So what do you do personally? Personally, I've been buying more individual stocks. And why do you do that instead of buying the S&P? I think my appetite for risk has gone up over time as I've been making financial content. And I'm always paying attention in the markets. I'm investing in big companies that I know and love and I know intimate detail,

Starting point is 01:34:24 or not intimate, but I know them intimately. So my portfolio has been getting more weighted towards individual stocks, but I think, you know, I was on The Money Guy show maybe like six months ago. I think I need to diversify back into the SB 500. Why would you say that? Have you done well with individual stocks? I have done well with individual stocks, but I do think that the entire market has done really well with individual stocks, and I just really want to make sure that if I have the amount that I have so far, that I protect that capital. And so I should really take my own medicine there.

Starting point is 01:34:54 So I think I've learned a lot on this podcast, which is I should probably spend a little bit more, right, in my personal life. And I should probably take my own medicine and diversify back. But the tax hit on the individual stock is tough. Do you think that people should consider tax consequences when investing in stocks? How long are they investing for? Let's say they're investing for retirement and they're in their 20s or 30s. Then probably not.

Starting point is 01:35:17 Not as much. Especially if it's in a retirement account. Let's say it's not, though. It's a taxable account. You made a whole bunch of money, but you're like, oh, man, if I sell it right now, I'm going to have to pay all this tax. Yeah, I mean, that's, I don't know, that's a tough balance because what is their situation going to look like when they're 65?

Starting point is 01:35:35 I don't know. Is there a tax bracket going to be really high for long-term capital gains? Are they going to be able to weather that tax bill, depending on their other assets? I'm not sure. So that maybe is not a good question for me because I'm not sure. I personally, I've made more mistakes avoiding the tax than I have riding it out. Like there's so many positions where I was up a ton and I said, oh, man, I don't want to sell it because I'm going to have to pay the tax. And then it just drops.

Starting point is 01:36:05 Like I lose all the profit. Yeah, but on those positions, would you have held for 40 years or are these like, you know, that you're up a lot on? Some of them. I'll give you an example. Ethereum I bought in at the very bottom of like 20, 20 something. And I was up like 100 and something percent. And I figured instead of selling, I'm just going to let it ride. And now I'm basically break even on that.

Starting point is 01:36:31 Or no, I'm down a little bit, I believe. So you would have preferred to sell it, take the tax it, but at least have the gain. Yes. But you would have not known if it could have gone up to 10K. That's true. The other funny thing is, of course, the one time I do start to. to take profits. It was on Bloom Energy. And I started selling it like, I sold a little chunk at 250, a little chunk at like 275, a little chunk at like 285. And now it's past 300. And of course,

Starting point is 01:36:56 it's the one stock where I'm like, I'm going to trim some of this. That's the one that just keeps going up higher. I feel like you're measuring yourself up against the perfect investment, though. Like you still, what was percent return did you get in bloom in over how long of a time period was it? Hundreds of percent. And but I'm paying taxes as though. It's like, like ordinary income basically short-term gains. I would say that's like the only real distinction that I would make. Obviously, it's extremely nuanced and it's a case-by-case basis. But if you can hold it out so you're not taxed at short-term capital gains and you're

Starting point is 01:37:27 taxed at long-term, then that's like the biggest thing. And then past long-term, I don't think that tax consequences should make any decision for you. Like, you shouldn't guide your investment decision. Correct. And I agree to. Yeah. What do you think are the best investments to get rich? The best investments to get rich?

Starting point is 01:37:44 I mean, that's a loaded question. What do you think? It's tough because, like, concentration does really get you rich fast if you concentrate in the right thing, but it can also ruin you fast. So do you want risk of ruin, then if you want risk of, whatever that means to you. Dude, if you want risk of ruin, then yeah, you can concentrate in any, you know, individual stock that you want. And if it 10x is, then it 10x is.

Starting point is 01:38:07 But if you want the disciplined approach where you're going to get rich slow, then index funds. What do you think about the market? being at an all-time high right now. I'm a little frothy. Yeah. Do you think people should invest differently with the market hitting an all-time high? No, dollar cost average.

Starting point is 01:38:23 DCA and chill. Always and forever, dollar cost average. Time in the market beats time in the market. What do you say to the people who feel like they should sell a little bit right now and maybe take like half off the table with the market the way it is right now? I would ask them if it's out of a need,

Starting point is 01:38:37 like a psychological need or if it's out of like a portfolio need or do they need the money or they're just worried that it's too high. I would reevaluate your time horizon. Like if you're going to be investing for 30 years, like should you be selling half right now? Because in 30 years, it's probably going to be higher than it is today. So no. Do you feel any desire to sell?

Starting point is 01:38:57 Oh, yeah, I do. But I fight it. I fight it. I'm not going to sell. But yeah. Definitely. Interesting. Yeah, I feel it.

Starting point is 01:39:05 Like, I see the market right now and it makes no sense to me whatsoever. Yeah. Things are getting disconnected from their fundamentals. And the same thing happened. I remember in 2021 when people were. thrown like, oh, I'm going to add Bitcoin to this. And then it goes up in price. People are doing the same thing with AI. They just say, oh, we have this new AI division. It's like, I think it really depends on the type of investor you are, right? Like, if you're investing for really long term

Starting point is 01:39:26 stuff, retirement account passively, you're not even looking at it. But for someone like you or someone that's very active in the market, maybe you could trim a little. Sure. I wouldn't. I know, but you could. But you could if you wanted to. If that's what you really believe, which is like we're, yeah. But I also know that I don't know enough to be able to, you know, beat the market. Got it. That's good. And that every time I think,

Starting point is 01:39:48 okay, this is it, it's the peak, it's going to double from there. So it always do that. It's not worth it. It's not worth it for me to say, it's better for me just to keep buying and holding. And that's what I just continue to do.

Starting point is 01:40:00 That's fair. But I fight the feelings. Yeah. How often do you see bad investment advice? Like online? Yeah. Oh, yeah, all the time. What's the worst advice you've seen?

Starting point is 01:40:09 Just anything on Wall Street bets is usually the worst advice I've seen. I mean, see a lot of success stories on there. Don't get me wrong, but I see like zero date to expiration calls. Is that advice though? Or is that just people that's just circulating? I don't think that that that, I think Wall Street bets that's not advice. That's just investment is that is Dgen. Like they all know what they're doing and that it's gambling. I think like conventional advice. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this is investment advice, but like the idea that, oh, you'll just save more or invest more when you make more money. I don't think that's true. I agree with that.

Starting point is 01:40:43 to like, let's say someone is not already saving and investing, and they're like, oh, yeah, once I get my raise, I'll save more then. No, I don't think that's true either. So maybe something like that. But that's not really investment advice. It's not telling someone to buy certain stock or buy a certain thing. We were talking about this yesterday,

Starting point is 01:41:00 dividend stocks, right, for someone who's young. Like, really the only reason you would have dividend stocks if you're, like, 21 years old is just for psychological comfort. But really, it's not doing much for you in terms of growth. So, you know, Graham and I reviewed some people's portfolios yesterday, and it's like, well, you should probably be reallocating into VTI or VT or VOO. If we are to all pick, let's say each three of us at the table, two stocks that we think are going to do well over the next 10 years. Which two stocks would you pick?

Starting point is 01:41:30 I'm picking Robin Hood, because I've been a big Robin Hood bull since like $18, $15. So I really like Robin Hood. I like the direction that they're going. I like to Vlad when I met him. So I always liked founder-led businesses. I saw that their financials were growing year over year. I like all the offerings that they're coming out with, right? They have credit cards.

Starting point is 01:41:50 They have custodial accounts. They've got the, well, I guess they have the Trump accounts now. And I just think it's the de facto brokerage for Gen Z and younger and maybe a big slice of millennials as well. And I think that their assets under management is only going to grow. So for me, I thought Robin Hood is at least on the cutting edge of brokerages, right? whereas the old brokerages, they might take a little bit longer to adapt. I don't like the sports betting stuff or the polymarket stuff that's on the Robinhood app.

Starting point is 01:42:19 That's maybe one thing morally that I can't get behind, but I just contacted them to disable it on my app. So I can't be tempted there. So that's one. The other is probably just Google. I just don't think you're going to be Google. Like, I feel like Google's like full AI capabilities are not fully realized yet. Kind of same thing with Apple. I feel like Apple's really positioned well.

Starting point is 01:42:41 for like the AI revolution because they haven't really done much but you know that they're probably working on it and they're just a little bit slower to market than all the other, all the other big like mega caps but I feel like they're in a good position too. So those are probably my two or three,

Starting point is 01:42:57 but what are yours? You picked my exact ones. Let's go. Yeah, I would say Apple. I just think that the moat is insane. Like, you know, tell me to buy a different phone, bring me a phone that's two times better than the iPhone.

Starting point is 01:43:10 I probably wouldn't change. And then on top of that, and also the way that like MacBooks are used in college, like it's kind of just like the go-to computer in education. And yeah, I would have to agree Apple. I think it's safe. I think it's like it's a safe bet. Okay. So two things about that. I think one, I really like the new CEO is more hardware focused.

Starting point is 01:43:34 I think that's kind of going back to their roots of like being hardware focused, which is nice, even though services is a large part of their business now. So that's like one more thing, great thing for Apple. But we were talking about the S&P 1 yesterday, which I thought was interesting too. Do you want to tell people about that? Yeah. And then we'll get grams. The S&P 1, and that's another argument for like Nvidia or like any of the other, like top, you know, three companies or whatever. The S&P 1, if you look at the way it's performed over the past 20 years, it is obliterated.

Starting point is 01:44:01 What is the S&P 510? The S&P 1 is when you buy the number one largest market cap company. And then as soon as a different company takes over and becomes the large. are just in market cap, you immediately sell and buy that company. Yeah, but you're getting a tax consequence in that. So you're constantly trimming. What did we just talk about? We just, we just spoke about.

Starting point is 01:44:20 I'm just saying constantly selling. Dude, this doesn't happen every three months. Like, the number one market cap company changes. A lot of times, they'll write out for a couple years, a few years. So you have long-term capital gains. But yeah, if you wrote out the S&P 1 for the past 20 years, the returns are like, I don't even know. I will put up an example right here, but like three or four X, the SPT.

Starting point is 01:44:38 Is that before or after tax? Probably before tax. I'm just saying when you constantly trim your position, depending on your tax bracket, 20 to 23 and a half percent or whatever it is, you're constantly trimming that down and then reinvesting. You have to outperform by that amount. Yeah, I agree with you. But you literally said 10 minutes ago that every single time you've made a decision based off of taxes, it is not healthy. And you're giving me another hypothetical scenario. It's not a hypothetical scenario.

Starting point is 01:45:08 Like you can look at the data. I don't know. Okay, well, look at the data. What are your two stocks, Graham? I would say, I like Robin Hood, Amazon, and Google. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've heard Chris Camillo talk about Amazon.

Starting point is 01:45:18 So I've got to look into that more. I'm in Amazon now. I'm in Amazon literally just because of Chris Camilla. So, like, you would argue the same thing, right? Listen, I like Amazon a lot, but I stay out of individual stocks. It's purely because Chris Camilla, that I'm in Amazon. Okay, so your portfolio is mostly ETS and maybe like a couple individual stock holdings? Pretty much.

Starting point is 01:45:37 What percent is individual stock holdings in your portfolio? portfolio, like less than 1%. Oh, that's really low. Oh, yeah. It's not much. I mean, it's... Is your crypto position higher? Yeah, oh, yeah. Crypto's like, now it's maybe eight to 10%. Just because it's gone up so much?

Starting point is 01:45:53 Uh, or just because you dollar cost basis or just because you dollar cost averaging? And I just didn't stop. And then when it dropped to like 60 to 65, I just, I couldn't help myself but to buy more. And we'll see if that was a bad decision or not. Cool. Speaking of Bitcoin. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Bitcoin?

Starting point is 01:46:12 I think it's not going anywhere. I think it's obviously low right now for low, relatively speaking. And it's definitely underperformed this year. It's down. I think you can have, let's say, if you wanted it in your portfolio, three to five percent. I mean, I know you have eight, but that's still, I think, within reason. It's like an alternative asset.

Starting point is 01:46:31 It's kind of like if you're just diversifying into like gold or something. I think if you wanted Bitcoin, that's fine. Yeah. I have like one Bitcoin. That's it. Well, when did you... When did you first buy Bitcoin? 2014, 2013, 2014.

Starting point is 01:46:45 How much? I bought one Bitcoin for $100 back then. What'd you do with it? I spent it at a cafe. Wow. It was the most expensive coffee you've ever purchased. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like a $60.

Starting point is 01:46:59 I mean, I think at the time I spent $60 at this cafe because we didn't know how Bitcoin worked and you had to like send Bitcoin from one wallet to the other using, using, you know, the, the 32, or however long on the wallet character address is. And so I sent this Bitcoin to this cafe in Palo Alto, Cupa Cafe. It's like a famous cafe where entrepreneurs meet. But I sent it to them and I didn't know that Bitcoin transactions,

Starting point is 01:47:25 they take like 30 minutes to confirm on the network because we didn't know anything back then. So the person behind the register was like, we didn't get it because they don't know either, right? No one's really paying with Bitcoin. And so I sent it again. And then I said, I had just basically send it like, three times.

Starting point is 01:47:39 And like that equivalent was like, I don't know, 0.45 bitcoins or whatever. So. And so they just kept the Bitcoin. I don't know or what, yeah. And so, but you held on. They could have lost it. You held on to the remaining 0.55. Uh, no.

Starting point is 01:47:52 I probably sold that. And then I, I re-bought in 2017. Yeah, you buy it the price that you deserve. Is that what they say? Ramsey thing. No, no, that's just the Bitcoin thing is you buy the price that you deserve. Interesting. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:48:06 And then, uh, yeah, 2017. I mean, I've been in. crypto for a long time, just maybe not as like, I'm not as outspoken about it, but I definitely keep up with what's going on and I know a lot about crypto. I just don't make stuff on the channel about crypto anymore because my audience hates it for some reason. They're just more into traditional retirement and growing your wealth slowly. Not that, not that Bitcoin is not doing that. It's just like, once I say Bitcoin on the on the, on the channel, people just are like, ah, that's like a scam. So what is the stuff that your audience is most excited to hear about?

Starting point is 01:48:36 Fire. Fire. Why do you think fire is so important to people? That's freedom. I mean, it's like when is it done? When's the job done? I think that's like a big thing. So that does really well on the channel. Psychological things do really well on the channel.

Starting point is 01:48:53 Like when is enough. And then other formats, affordability, cars, houses, stuff like that. What does money mean to you? You know, when I was like a kid, I always thought that money was like a really dumb concept because it's like, fake. It's just value that we assigned to it. But I view it as a resource that you can trade for things. So I like that. And I also view it as something that can bring a little bit of happiness. Sure. What do you think the best things are to spend money on? Experiences, other people.

Starting point is 01:49:27 What experiences have you spent money on that you say that's worth it? I went to, I mean, I'll let's give you an example. I went to the ERIS tour. I thought that was worth it. Taylor Swift? Yeah, it's so five stadium. How much for tickets? I think it was like 1200 bucks a ticket. I bought two. Yeah, they were great. She was great. And by the time I got there, the tickets were like 3,000 apiece. But yeah. Wow. I will say like, I mean, it's just a night I remember like really well. Like every Taylor Swift concert I've been to because I've been to the 1989 concert and the reputation concert, the other albums. They're always just like the craziest time of your life because the stadium is so loud, the energy is all there. It's like, it's really incredible.

Starting point is 01:50:09 And you know what? I want to go to a cold play concert because of that too, or a BTS concert because I've noticed a stadium concert to me is like the energy is electric and I like that. And I'm actually going to the World Cup game next Thursday. It's like Australia versus Paraguay. And, you know, I think that will be sold out. So that's going to be like an experience that I'll remember too. Speaking of Taylor Swift, did you guys see this morning she's pregnant?

Starting point is 01:50:33 No. Yeah. Really? I'm kidding. Oh. Gotcha. You should have held on to that for longer. I should have.

Starting point is 01:50:42 I would have believed it. I would have believed it too. I should. I didn't check anything this morning. I was doing it because someone's going to clip that. Oh, that's funny. So you're a Swifty. I mean, yeah.

Starting point is 01:50:51 I'd like to think so. Yeah, sure. I just like experiences. So I think, to your point, spending money on experiences like that, that was worth it. Buying things for other people is nice, too. Like,

Starting point is 01:51:04 Just buying dinner, picking up dinner. What are the worst things to spend money on? I don't know. I haven't felt like I've made a bad decision in terms of purchasing something recently, so I don't really have any worse decisions. The clothes, probably, sure. Especially if it just, like, shrinks or...

Starting point is 01:51:20 I don't know. I don't think gambling. Don't gamble. You know what we could do right now? $100 each coin flip. You want to do that, Jay? I have $100. So do I.

Starting point is 01:51:32 you guys want to do it? Sure. I'll officiate. Okay. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do a hundred dollar coin flip. Do you want heads or tails? I'll let you pick the heads or tails for the coin flip.

Starting point is 01:51:41 Uh, I would like heads. All right. I'll be tails. Do you have a coin? Just flip a coin heads or tails. Oh, digital coin. This is how, this is how, let's go. Oh, there you go.

Starting point is 01:51:58 Cool. Congratulations. Did you believe me? Yeah, I believe you. Okay. Wait. It was heads? No, yeah, it was heads.

Starting point is 01:52:04 He just looked for. a second like you didn't believe me. No, because you're like showing your phone. Okay. Yeah. I got Graham Steffin's $100. How does it feel? Pretty good. A hundred dollars How do you feel? A little bummed out, but it's, I mean, that's fine. That's fine, you know, it is what it is. It's the way the cookie crumbles. It is. You win some, you lose some. So this is. Would you do it again?

Starting point is 01:52:28 I don't know if I would. Because I kind of hit a limit. You catch your losses. Yeah, I kind of hit a limit where I'm like. But you could get back to where you were. That's a great point. What if you do double or nothing? $200? No, I wouldn't do that. I would do another 100 for the sake of content.

Starting point is 01:52:49 I would do another 100. That's double or nothing. No, it's not. Double or nothing is 200. It's technically double for him. Well, actually, no, it's another 100. Let's save this for the post show. Okay.

Starting point is 01:52:59 We'll save it for the most. If you want to see the next coin flip post show. Go. All right, we have some rapid fire financial questions for you. Humphrey. let's see what you got to say. All right, sir. Rent or buy.

Starting point is 01:53:10 Rent. New car or used car? Used car. Lease or finance? Finance. Credit card or debit card? Credit card. Pay off mortgage or invest?

Starting point is 01:53:22 Pay off mortgage. Roth or traditional? Roth. Bitcoin or gold? Gold. I like gold lately. But I've also been collecting gold, so, yeah. Index funds or individual stocks?

Starting point is 01:53:40 index funds. Real estate or stocks? Stocks. Higher income or lower cost of living? Higher income. Concentrated portfolio or diversified portfolio. Depends on age. Younger, concentrated. Die with zero or leave a large inheritance. Leave large inheritance. Retire early or work on something meaningful forever.

Starting point is 01:54:07 The latter. Work on something meaningful forever. Track every expense or automate savings. Track. 1 million at age 25 or 5 million at age 50. 1 million age 25. And then we have some multiple choice. Which will improve the average person's finances the most? Cutting expenses, getting promoted, changing careers, starting a side hustle or starting a business.

Starting point is 01:54:37 Probably cutting expenses. Our side hustles usually, a legitimate path to wealth, a useful source of, supplemental income, a distraction from advancing in a primary career or mostly internet marketing. B, which was a useful source of supplemental income. Yep. What's the best side hustle for the average person? Freelancing and existing skill, reselling, content creation, ride share or delivery, real estate, e-commerce, consulting, local business services.

Starting point is 01:55:07 I'll go freelancing, consulting, so basically using the skills you already have. And then I would go like reselling and then small business services right after that. Someone earns $70,000 as a stable job. Choose the better use of 10 additional hours per week. What are the options? Working towards a promotion. That's what you'd say, bud. Learn a new skill.

Starting point is 01:55:32 Build a side business. Work a second job. Or invest and research stocks. Learn a new skill, I think, is what I would say. Yeah. Especially if it helps you at work. like let's say you're at work and you learn database management on the side. Like you could you could increase your income by a lot doing that.

Starting point is 01:55:53 So Humphrey, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee. I really appreciate it. We got a post show for all the members coming up. So if you want to join, you'll see some extra content me trying to win my money back. Thank you so much. We're also going to link to all of your information.

Starting point is 01:56:06 Yes, please do. Down below in the description. Go and subscribe to Humphrey. Thanks again. And until next time. Thank you. Bye.

The Iced Coffee Hour - The Savings Expert: They’re Lying To You About Building Wealth - Do THIS Instead! | Humphrey Yang

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