The Iced Coffee Hour - “This Keeps You POOR!” Caleb Hammer Reveals The WORST Money Traps To Avoid In 2025

Episode Date: January 26, 2025

RocketMoney: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions today at https://RocketMoney.com/iced ExpressPros: Get the hiring support you need at https://ExpressPros.com Ramp: Now get $250 when you join Ramp at https://ramp.com/ich Bilt: Start earning Points for the rent you’re ALREADY paying at https://joinbilt.com/icedcoffee Shopify: Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/ich NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Follow and Subscribe to  @CalebHammer  Caleb Hammer Here! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps : 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:25 - Most upsetting guest 00:02:05 - Valid excuses for failure 00:04:35 - Worst money habits 00:08:22 - Common audit findings 00:08:32 - Why people stay broke 00:09:58 - Discipline vs small purchases 00:10:45 - When small purchases are OK 00:13:29 - Lessons on human nature 00:15:14 - Sponsor - RocketMoney 00:16:53 - Lack of responsibility 00:18:21 - Sympathizing with guests 00:19:24 - Breaking through with guests 00:20:32 - Items keeping people poor 00:22:39 - Accusations of exploitation 00:24:53 - Guest verification process 00:25:34 - Credit card usage mistakes 00:29:09 - Finance improvement tips 00:32:23 - Cash stuffing thoughts 00:32:47 - Are side hustles worth it? 00:34:38 - Tipping without servers 00:36:12 - Sponsor - ExpressPros 00:37:10 - Sponsor - Ramp 00:38:58 - Relating to show guests 00:41:47 - Hardest part of being broke 00:46:24 - Cost of pet insurance 00:49:39 - Your worst financial moment 00:57:54 - Caleb and relationships 01:01:27 - Sponsor - Bilt 01:02:31 - Sponsor - Shopify 01:03:46 - Life goals 01:09:49 - Asking people on dates 01:16:21 - Dating apps 01:18:40 - Finance in relationships 01:19:19 - Who spends more? 01:21:02 - Couple finance advice 01:24:05 - Victim mentality 01:26:45 - Thumbnail complaints 01:29:43 - Caleb's business growth 01:32:27 - Revenue streams 01:39:29 - Fear of dying poor 01:44:06 - Handling criticism 01:49:08 - Quitting YouTube *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruit Flies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy.

Please sit and stretch. Steep. Flip. Or that. And enjoy. Via rail, love the way. It only takes a couple things to be successful. What are those things? Why'd you get into the debt in the first place? I bought a car for no reason.

No, no, no, no. You really become the Gordon Ramsey of personal finance. Why'd you get laid off? You scared all the dogs with you all have? That wasn't very nice. That makes sense. What do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke?

It's only five bucks, though. Five percent interest, yes. A lot of people don't understand how interest actually works. You guys have so many cards. There's $2,000 of Disneyland tickets after that. Another ticket. What is it happening?

Anytime anyone just sits and it's just like they won't take responsibility for literally one thing, that pisses me off. No, no, no, no. Objectively, no. first document right here. And when I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change on the show, I'm just like, okay, go do it. I don't care.

But I'm having the conversation of here's what you should do to actually get your finances in order. Is it true you're really going to quit YouTube? Caleb, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. Really appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Welcome back to Austin. I always love having my dudes in town. Thank you.

We always have a lot of fun. And it's interesting because over the last year, you really become the Gordon Ramsey. of personal finance. Sure. And I'm curious, what guest have you had on that's made you the most upset? Oh,

having the Takedo man himself back, Britt and Davy, coming on trying to pretend like the whole thing is a victim complex, everything that, all the choices that he's making, anytime anyone just sits and it's just like,

they won't take responsibility for literally one thing, everything is against them and they have no control, which is his ultimate, mindset and everything, that pisses me off. And that's what pissed me off about him. People can insult me all day. People can insult me all day. And he tried. He tried. People try. But that's what upsets me when people just refuse to take at least one ounce of responsibility.

All right. Now, I'm curious, what is outside of someone's control that you think when they say that, okay, you know what? This person does have a point. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, mental health things is a huge thing. Right. So there are some mental health things. Of course, that's where you're like, okay, well, what should I do? I should probably go see someone, you know, I should probably, you know, see an expert, talk to people around me, try to surround myself with a good community, but that's something you might not have control over, you know, maybe you don't have a good family, you know, we did have one person that was raised in the, an orphanage community. I guess there's no parent, and they were never adopted,

and they kind of just got dropped off in a town at 18. So that was, that was, he was on his own from there and that he didn't have control for he didn't have control if he was going to get adopted or if he was raised by loving parents so he didn't really he doesn't have that community but you know we live in the world where if that happens whatever you're dealt with that is kind of what you have to deal with and then what you choose to do from there is still kind of up to you but obviously we should support each other and help each other and that's what we try to do for him and we've connected him to resources and we're in his corner whenever he has any questions um Yeah, so being raised, of course, there's been some people that have had family trauma.

Everything childhood related, I feel like is like that's what's beyond control. Obviously, natural disaster stuff that feels like beyond your control, but also make sure you have the right insurances. Like, there are some things you can do more in adulthood that helps alleviate some of the things. You can't control necessarily if your company fails and you get laid off, but you can control if you had an emergency fund before that. You can't control if your pet get sick, but you can control if you have pet insurance. So it's more how people are raised and whether or not they have a community. And obviously there's some addiction things where it's like, yes, you see someone who has addiction and you're like, oh, just go get help. It's obviously more complicated than that.

So, I mean, that's just a little extra handholding, a little extra support. We had one person who was addicted to drugs of the crystal variant and, you know, ended up going to rehab. And we've been in touch with him, helping him. And we got him set up. Well, actually, there's a promise if he was, like, clean for a few months, you know, we'd give him some money to help pay off some of the debt. And we did that. That's cool. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, but obviously it's still more difficult to get out of an addiction thing than just pay off some debt. So.

Right. But he still had the control to go to rehab. And he made that decision. Yeah. And what are some of the worst things you've seen people do with their money? Well, I've definitely seen people fuck up their relationships by purchasing only fans. That's been interesting. It's the relationship ending things where it's just like, why would you do this? First of all, how does that come up in an audit?

Do they not hide this in their bank statements? Or they go in knowing that, like, I'm paying for only fans and my wife is here and you're going to call me out on this? What are they thinking? I think we've had a couple guests now that they confess to their wife, because it's the dude that's getting in it. They confess to their wife on the drive over here. They're like, this is going to come up in the finances.

I need to tell you. And yeah, that's dumb. We definitely had one wife. They all used fake names, so I don't remember anyone's name. But she was visibly upset that the dude, I was calling it, only fans, only fans, only fans. The episode we just uploaded today in the host show, now that this is, you know, kind of distant to the host show, dude and his friends collectively put hundreds of dollars together so they can subscribe to OnlyFans. Graham, you need to get some friends like that. Save you some money.

I'm telling you, man. That's the way to do it. I didn't realize I could even do that. Yeah. That's incredible. Wait, wait. So, explain this. So his buddies were pulling money together to do it through him?

No, so they could all use one account and subscribe to one of the people. Would you rather go into debt? So they have a group account. Right now. Yeah. And we have a significant method. And we're about there. That's genius.

But why the fuck would you rather go into more instead of just a little bit of a little bit of adult sacrifice. 32. To go to school. Really bad for them. Now they say he's clean. However, again, this just got uploaded today. People are reading into the episode, and I do not want to make an accusation, but just

reading the comments. He claims that he has to go to a store and buy a new charger or a phone charger because he works on the road three times a week, which blew everyone's mind. We didn't understand. So was it visas or something that he's going? Maybe to continue that potential addiction. Is it an addiction at that point? Or is it just like he has a, he just enjoys three times a week, hiding it from the

wife. I'm not accusing him of doing that. It is still don't understand the breaking multiple charges a week though. So he was saying on the show that it was, you know, chargers. I feel like that's, I hate to say it. I'm maybe I'm going to hate it. I feel like that's an easy cop out when your wife finds out and be like, no, sorry, I have an addiction. Because then it's like, now it's not you anymore. It's like, hey, I'm consumed by this addiction.

Maybe imprime. And that kind of alleviates some of the concern with the wife, some of the, it's really hard to tell. I'm sure you've had plenty of experiences and we're going to go into it between people actually should they be taking responsibility for the things that happened to them or should they they not be. You know what I mean? Like are they a victim or are they just someone who lacks discipline? That's a very, very hard line to draw. A lot of the people, they've just never been called out in their life. You can tell.

They just haven't really been called out. So they hear that pushback for the first time. Someone really giving them just like no bullshit. This is what I think. And kind of my more brutalistic way because I know, you know, my special way with words. And you can see that their immediate, instant cope mechanism is, well, it's because of this. I'll never talk to.

Here's, you know, everything's against me and all this stuff. But you can see that start to fade away as we record for like an hour and a half. It starts to fade away. And you see a little more acceptance. You see a little more emotion in their face. As they really start, we go document, document, document. Almost everyone, almost everyone I talked to after we stopped recording it says that was worse than I thought. They come in thinking it was better than it really was.

And you can see that in their face throughout the episode. I don't know if that's reflected on camera, but when I'm sitting here, how many audits have you filmed now? Okay. When I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the.

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Canada's car marketplace. Dude, I have no idea. We try to film four to five a week. So do you think you're in probably the mid-hundreds at this point? Yeah. Okay. So after auditing the finances of hundreds of people, what do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke?

A lot of people don't understand how interest actually works on their credit cards. And even when they do kind of understand it, since a lot of people, they always say, oh, but I didn't look at it. You know, I don't want to look at it because it's too scary. It's easier to just, you know, let it be and not think about it. They don't know. Like, I call their interest rate out. And I'm like, this is 30%. They're like, I thought this was 12%.

Do they even know the difference at that point? At that point, they do understand. Most of them at least understand that difference. Once they at least understand interest, everyone's wrong. I have to explain interest. And that's okay. but that's definitely the common threat I see throughout is a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand because it just gets so scary. So they just bury, but then it gets worse and that ends in the situation where there's been a few guests this year where I don't see anything but bankruptcy being the only option.

And, you know, those people specifically where I can't figure out anything on the basic level, we set them up with the financial advisor that we partner with. That is definitely the common threat is they just put their head in the sand. They're scared and it just ends up getting worse. and then they have no idea how bad the debt even is. And not even that. They put their head in the sand so much that they will sit here and they'll say, no, you'll be having to know that I didn't purchase on that credit card. And I had spent like six months since I purchased on the credit card.

I open it. There's like five subscriptions renewing. They have no idea. And are those people, are any of those people that you audit that are in really bad financial situations, also the type of person to skimp out on small purchases? I feel like you can really draw a line between two kinds of people, the people that are very disciplined with like the small things.

I'm not going to go get a coffee. I'm going to not get avocado. I'm not going to get bacon because it's adding a few dollars. And then the other people that are like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Do you see a common thread there where like you really don't see that archetype of human that saves on those small things to be really in financial strife?

I don't see anyone that doesn't get the small purchases. I feel like our show always has the small purchases. And they always think that they're getting, they're going out to eat like once, twice a week. And then I show them that they get a coffee in the morning and then a, you know, a vending machine. during the day and then a dinner at night almost every day. So it's just the, they think they're not making small purchases, but they do.

Well, what are small purchases okay? Because I saw some hate that you got maybe about a month or two ago. Spotify. Was it that? Yeah, I think it actually was. You told someone not to do the Spotify when they said, listen, it's like $9 a month or $11 a month. It's like the only thing I enjoy.

You're like, no, you need to cut everything. you have no room for enjoyment. Yeah. Looking back, do you think that maybe there was some room for enjoyment or no? No, it's an all or nothing. I give people,

it's not all or nothing. I give people all the time some room. I gave the episode we recorded today. I gave her 20 bucks a month for subscriptions. There are people that I do give room on when they have room. When people are literally going to potentially get evicted from an apartment because they only have $50 hours left after I give them the most conservative budget, they have $50 dollars.

left on a monthly basis, I think they can listen to ads. Now, I mean, do I care if someone gets Spotify specifically? No. It just becomes an example throughout where it's like, hey, we can sacrifice something. It's not about, it's not about Spotify. It's about the example of we can sacrifice. If they want to keep Spotify, they can keep Spotify. I think your point that I actually agreed with was that they could get Spotify with the ads. Yeah. Just listen to the ads. Or just YouTube. YouTube has everything that Spotify already does. I do YouTube. Apparently the ads are a lot worse on Spotify. The features on premium, apparently you can't even like skip a lot of songs anymore. Things, apparently free Spotify is pretty shitty. But again, it's never been about Spotify.

The reason why we kind of made Spotify kind of like almost a meme to always call out is because people would work good with me telling them to cut back in the moment they heard Spotify, they would always perk up and almost be offended that I'm suggesting. Because it seems like the simplest of thing that people should be able to afford. Oh, it's just listening to music. It's not even like television. It's just audible. It's auditory. So I feel like really. coming after that. It's like attacking what people think as like a basic human necessity. But it's also cheap. When you think of over

the course of a month, if like, if you're not getting much enjoyment anywhere else in life, but Spotify is giving. But it's more expensive if you're paying interest on that because you're not paying it off and you're putting it on a credit card. Even paying 50% interest on $12 a month. Like isn't that bad in the big picture. Like if they work an extra hour at their job,

I agree, but I think you would also probably agree with the sentiment that it's not necessarily about the $9.99 and the 50% of that. But it's the string of actions. Yes. Oh, totally. Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Of the $9.0.00. Oh, it's not a big deal. Oh, the $3 Starbucks is not a big deal. Oh, this isn't a big deal. But it adds up. And that's why I push back on that. That's why I find it really interesting that you rarely ever see people struggling that are the type to skip out on those small little purchases. Yeah. That's very interesting. No, we don't get those people because we only have people on that are struggling and we never have the people who are

trying to be frugal on small purchases. What have you noticed about human nature, not only auditing the finances of hundreds of people, but also just talk. to 500 people that open up to you. Yeah, definitely some sense of entitlement. And I hate saying that word because a lot of it gets politically charged. You know, when you hear the word entitlement in our culture, it's, you know, politically charged. But a lot of people think that they had a hard day at work and are entitled to pick up the meal. And sure, they can do it.

And what I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change on the show, I'm just like, okay, go do it. I don't care. Go do it. But I'm having the conversation of, oh, here's. what you should do to actually get your finances in order. But a lot of people, they had a tired day of work. Oh, you know, maybe make it even more complicated with a little extra school, make it even more complicated by having some kids.

And it says they deserve the sweet treat, all that stuff. And I want them to get the sweet treat. I want them to spend 30% of their money on their sweet treat once they're out of debt and have a fully funded emergency fund. But I've picked up on a lot of that entitlement, thinking that it's more of a deserve. than a let's just put in a little bit of sacrifice and then let's get all the sweet treats you want so a lot yeah lots of where does that come from total guess yeah but just based on how i grew up

and based on the culture and probably the consumerism culture you know we are median household income in the united states or our GDP per capita is double the united kingdom so it's like we have that extra money more typically than those other countries to just go blowing on things we see the commercials we got everything it's in our culture you guys you guys you're get the McDonald's because you want the ice cream, you know? You get it. It's a nice day out. This is the actual little things. Should have that yearly trip somewhere.

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Thank you so much to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode. Back to the podcast. I feel really bad saying this. I genuinely do, but it's just my honest. It's my honest thoughts. So obviously, you know, when we have a guest in the show, we research them a lot. So I was watching a ton of your videos. I'd seen a lot in the past, but I'm just like, I would say,

re-watching a lot of stuff. And I noticed I kept getting very honestly kind of upset, like a little bit angry because a lot of the guests, like I would not, it would be rare for me to feel sympathy for them. And I know this sounds awful to say, because these are people in bad situations. They're struggling financially.

They're not coming from a good spot. But it seems like similar to what you said. It's like, oh, because this. Oh, because this. Because this. And I'm thinking like, is there no sense of personal responsibility for people? How far did you make it in the episodes?

care is. I mean, your episodes are long now, like an hour and a half. So I probably watched six episodes all the way through. All the way through. Did you see towards the end, though? I feel this doesn't happen for all of them, but a lot of them that I see these days, they really start with that. Because again, they've never been pushed back on. Also, they've never been on camera. They're literally random people off, you know, they're in the audience, typically. I do notice a small resolve at the end after being berated, you know, for like an hour on their finances. Well, it's because, again, they've never had it. They also just, we do story times and stuff and, you know, to get more context on their life. But once you start getting halfway through

the document pile, it really starts to set on them, how bad it is, worse than they thought it was. And we can see it after the show. And then we filmed the post show. And that's an extra 20 minutes. And you can just see, they're just like, oh, I can't believe how bad that was. I had no idea. So would you find yourself being sympathetic towards the guests that you have sometimes on your show, or what's the general? How do you feel about it? Yeah. Well, definitely more sympathy towards the uncontrollables that we talked about earlier. Controlables, absolutely. Lots of, definitely sympathy towards them.

And then, you know, usually we give them an extra helping hand. But sympathy of, I can't get Chick-fil-A after work, a little less. Usually, when people have kids and they have to cut back on, you know, special things for the kids, just temporarily, that's definitely where I feel, you know, more of a heart on that. But when it's just a single person, just trying to really grind it out for like a year. year. That's hard for me to. Actually, I have less sympathy. When we get to the end, we make a budget, and they have thousands left over. I'm like, this is just the, there's no reason to be in this kind of debt. You could literally fix this in a few months. And we recorded like four of those in a row a few weeks ago. And I was just like, I had no sympathy at the end. It's like, dude,

just fucking do this. This is the dumbest thing in the world that you're not doing. How long does it take to break through to people? And what do you have to do to get to that point? I start to see it about 45 minutes, 45 minutes into the episode. Anything you're doing in particular, or it's just like, you got to like keep like chipping away, chipping away and then 35 minutes and they break down. That seems to be the philosophy. You know, you find the things to relate to them. I learn more things about their family, more things about their personal life, and you

can start relating things to it and the consequences of their actions and who they might be affecting. If I learn they have a kid, you know, I demonstrate that older kid's going to feel morally obligated to take care of them at some point. if they don't actually get their shit together now, because I don't think any of us would let our parents literally become a homeless, you know, if they don't have retirement. But we didn't choose to come to the world either.

So it's like, why put that on your kids? So I find something related to, and then yeah, chipping away, and usually about 45 minutes in, we're most of the way through the documents, and that's where the numbers really start the stack. So it's just, I think it's just all that becomes a little overwhelming, good overwhelming, hopefully, and you start to see some emotion,

and they even get quieter in that moment, usually. And, yeah, that's when they start to be more receptive to things. So what are the items that are keeping people poor the most that you notice? Definitely car loans, big car loans on the show. Some of our, you know, biggest moments are big trucks, big American manly trucks or something, you know, I have their Ford. F1.50. Yeah. At a, you know, seven-year, eight-year loan, 25 percent so that they can pick up groceries.

I saw a video. this is real. This guy got a Lamborghini Gallardo and he went through his expenses on like, here's how much it cost to buy a Lamborghini Gallardo. Great car, by the way. Like, fantastic for resale value. I believe he put almost no money down, but he got a hundred and forty month car loan on this. 12 years? It's about 12 years. And I was thinking like the average auto loan rate for a used car that's that old, because these cars were built from like 2004 to like, I think it was like 2012, something like that, give or take. But for used cars over four years old, the interest rates have to be minimum 7%.

Like at the lowest. And I was doing like some backwards calculations to figure out like how much he's paying an interest over this 12 years. Like it makes no sense. But I want to get that guy on the show. But he has the car. He has the car. The thing is he seemed like a really bright, smart guy.

Okay. That was the one thing. Maybe he got a super good rate somehow though. There's no way you're getting a. Not that I would support that. Better than 6% on a 12 month. It's impossible. Yeah.

That's crazy. Should get him on. That would be interesting. I always wondered, it would be kind of cool rather than people that apply to going on the show. Like, you just go on the street and just like go up to someone working a McDonald's job or something like that and just approach them. That's so hard. Because that's a little bit more true, I feel like. Yeah.

Well, I mean, that would be. I mean, it is all true. But it's just, I don't know, because people get on such a big. This is, it's the, there is a bit of a moral dilemma. Yeah. We want to make sure that the people coming on, the amount of onboarding they come on before coming on the show, but we couldn't do that with someone on the street, you know. Right. So.

But it makes sense for you not going up to random people, just given the audience size at this point. Yeah. Where do you draw the line between people who think that you exploit poor people versus offering true criticism and helping them with tough love? With the amount of times that we have on phone calls with them, a onboarding video that's sent to them before they come on. an onboarding video they're forced to watch in the green room before they come on. The amount of stuff we say, hey, dude, you're about to get shit on in front of a bunch of people. Don't do this if you don't want to do it. We won't be offended.

Don't do it. Tell us now. They get that chance like five times before they ever come on. That's why we actually have a lot of people cancel right before, which is okay. What percent would you say cancels? We put four on the calendar. We could say one cancels, one to two a week. Yeah.

So how many people apply towards how many people actually get on the show? Now we get a lot more applications because we're targeting our audience on TikTok and meta. But that's specifically targeted our audience still. And now we have a lot more applications. I don't know. We're getting 100 applications a day. I don't know. Wow.

I don't know. A lot of people want to come on. Yeah. I think a majority of it is kind of jerking themselves off a little. So a lot of people want to come on. they want to talk about their multi-million dollar portfolio or something, but it's a pretty limited selection. If we were, like Lindsay could have pretty much anyone with that come on, but that would get, we already have kind of relatively repetitive show. It would get Uber repetitive.

We'd just let anyone in anyone and anyone on that. So we want to make sure we at least get interesting stories and, you know, more diverse selections of what is happening. How do you know what to pick for it to not become repetitive? Well, that's why I heard I hired Lindsay. She's a beast. Her and Jake, and eventually our new junior producer as well,

they just have so many conversations with them, so many conversations going through their life and just trying to understand them and, you know, see where their headspace is at, see what their opinions on things are and just making sure that it's not someone on coming on who just spends a McDonald's, and that's their only thing, you know?

Yeah. So, you know, I put it in their hands and I trust them and they've been delivering. And how do you verify all the information that they say is accurate? Statements. Financially, it's in their statements. And they send credit karma screenshots as well. So that for sure.

Life things, it's a little hard to tell. We definitely get one side of the story. And I've gotten in trouble a couple times for that. Where it's like, you know, someone will tell a big trauma dump or something, which is very fair. Go ahead. And I'm like, I, you know, instinctively play devil's advocate of a lot. when we're not hearing the other side, so I just want to be a little cautious. But then, you know, it's almost like, am I denying someone's experience?

You know, that's kind of what I heard a few times. So I don't know. It's a little difficult, but we can't verify that stuff's true. A hundred percent. That gets dicey. On the top of credit cards, do you think the average person uses them appropriately? Or would you say, for the most part, it's just a bad thing? The average person?

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oh dude I don't know the statistics around this but well I guess we know the median balances in the thousands right so I'm sure the average person oh the average credit card debt right now I think is like $6,000 $6,600. The average person... Yes. So is that the average credit card debt and then that's you put that per... So you assign divide by $330 million or whatever?

Well, not everyone has a credit card. I know. I'm just saying like the amount of people... The average person with a credit card has a balance of... I believe it was $6,600. I did a video similar to this about like the American debt. And the savings rate is 3% right now. For the average American, 3%.

And if they're making $65,000 a year, they're saving like $2,000 a year. And they have a credit card balance of $6,600. there's no way to pay it off. You physically can't, you know, it just doesn't work. Do you think then that it could be irresponsible to advocate for credit cards for something that generally is bad? I don't know, man. That's kind of the same thing.

It's just like, you know, someone could get addicted to that coffee right there. You know, I don't drink, but I don't care if people drink. Like, someone could get addicted to it. I don't know. That's why I always just say, use credit cards only if you're a credit card person. If you can demonstrate that you can budget and pay your bills correctly for at least a quarter, then maybe give yourself like an intro credit card, right? You know, really got to do it safely.

It's a tool, but just like any other tool in construction, dude, you can get your head caved in. So just got to be safe. I don't like super advocate for credit cards. I wouldn't say either. I'm not like, dude, if you look at my wallet, you'd be so bored as like a credit card person. I'm like nothing. I got like just a couple credit cards that makes sense. That's from a business credit card.

It's just like I'm not a super big advocate. I like them because I can utilize them and I like to, a little but I'm not like go get a credit card go go to credit card go get a credit card but credit scores I know I know our boy Dave isn't he doesn't think credit scores are the biggest thing in the world but no underwriting you've really got to find like the right institution for that definitely becomes less convenient especially for apartment hunting so I mean then again maybe I am advocating for smart credit card usage and training from parents to kids so that they can build a good credit so when they go to lease their own place without any room

or co-signers or whatever that they're able to get it. So you know what they're going to do at some point? Because I have a feeling the credit card usage and interest rates are going to be an issue over the next probably 10 years in terms of like Congress and senators and they're going to look into this. I have a feeling at some point they're going to mandate credit card companies require a test before you get the credit card. Interesting.

And basic. Like is a 24% interest rate when you have a $1,000 debt? What is that? And you have to like select the dollar amount. Or like, is your credit going to take a hit if you don't pay it off after a 30 days, like all these questions. And if you answer like five questions correctly, like basic, beginner level questions, then you get the credit card. Because they do that with stock trading. When you sign up for Robin Hood options, you have to answer a few stupid, basic questions that a monkey

could answer, but they're questions. At least it's Robin and hey, we did our job. We did something. I think a credit card should do that if people are taking out loans. I remember the one she, that you had on your show, didn't understand what the credit card. card interest rate was and thought that was her limit or there was like a weird one like that right that probably she just like didn't understand what it what it was like the 20% she's like oh i thought this is like how much i could spend a lot of them they think their 2% cashback is beating their 30% interest so like yeah for the average viewer out there that's trying to improve their finances what are some things that you would just generally recommend for for them to be in a better financial

spot just to start with just the basic budget literally any budgeting app. I have some preferences, but literally any budgeting app. I have an extra preference towards simpler budget, because you just got to do the simple things. That's what a lot of people fail on is a lot of people try to get the

crazy spreadsheet. A lot of people try to get, you know, download the you need a budget and then it's like a trillion billion things. Literally just the basic start of setting up the budget, understanding just what your even income is. People can't even answer the damn income question sometimes. And then just

just understanding what's going out. It always blows their mind when I tell them how much they're spending versus how much is coming in. They have no idea. So literally just creating that simpler budget. That's why we made the simpler budget app for the basics. People are just getting started. Want to change their life, take control from the first time. It's just that basic thing, dude. Starting with the budget. From there, then it's just the foundations, right? What are the goals are trying to hit? Got to get that emergency fund or are we trying to pay off high interest that, you know, what's our life situation looking like at that time? Do we need to make sure we have a little extra cushion before paying off that debt because we have kids?

You go from there, but you gotta start with the budget. People just don't know how much money's going in and out. I remember back in college, I did this, why I created a mock budget for a fake family that lives. It was a husband and wife or boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, two people, and they had a child, and they were affording a car, gas. I allocated a budget towards rent, towards X, and I found an actual place, everything. even child care. I got the average health care costs.

I got food budget costs from the census, everything. And they were able to still save. It was like $5,000 a year, which is a pretty substantial amount. And that's not accounting for any growth in income, just working standard hours. And I remember I got in college when I did this presentation. So many people were like giving me backlash from this. But it's so weird. It's like, am I then supposed to instead say, oh, if this is your situation, you're screwed.

there's nothing you can do. Yeah, I know what I mean? It's like, okay, well, if you do the right things, then good things will happen. But the only other thing, the thing that people want you to say is that, oh, there's nothing you can do, you're screwed. I mean, that's definitely easier. It's to put the head in the sand. It's easier to assume that everything's doomed and gloom. Why work?

Why make it? Why put it in effort? Why sacrifice? Live uncomfortably for a second. I mean, there are real situations to acknowledge of, you know, like, I've had a few people that live in pretty shitty situations. And like, fuck, I don't know if they can afford to get out of there. I think it's also important for people to probably know their rights as tenants as well. I had someone, I think it was the person I was talking about earlier, where they were an orphan their entire life, they live in a place where, like, he literally can't stand in the shower because you fall through.

Like, you've got to know, you need to know your rights and just talk. You try to get connected. Actually, I think we sent them links to pro bonos, people that would be interested in pro bono work, you know, in that space. So it's important for people to know their rights as well. if they are getting fucked. People do get, there are situations that are fucked. Just know you're right. There's laws in place for a reason.

A lot of people just don't know. What do you think about cash stuffing in envelopes? For some people, they need that little extra help. If it's digital, they can't track it. For me, I can't track it if it's cash. I need the digital number. If a dollar goes down on my bank account, I'm like, ooh. But if a dollar goes out physically, it doesn't exist.

But yeah, some people, like, if it's digital, they have no control. So envelope systems been recommended a few times on the show, quite a few times. But what do you say to the people who want to get a side hustle? How often is it actually worth it? It's worth it when, it's really worth it when they don't have that wiggle room. On the tightest budget, no Spotify with ad free. Even with all that, they only have $100 left on a monthly basis. And like mathematically it's going to take them, you know, 10 years to pay it off.

Or they could go through bankruptcy and then it's on for seven or 10 years. You know, it's just like, okay. At that point, if they can literally bring in an extra $500 a month, I could like more than double their progress for its paying off debt. What do you think is the best side hustle? I mean, I just recommend people getting a job as quick as possible. I know during the pandemic, there's some, you know, Uber Eats and Uberine was pretty good. It's not as good anymore.

It's a little hard. It's kind of, isn't it like kind of the, it's a low percentage that's actually making good money on it versus everyone else. Dude, I'm telling people there's a coffee shop up the street. I talked to the manager. I see him off and he's like, I need to hire people. We're hiring people at 18 bucks an hour. Please send your guests here.

Please send them. And I'm like, go. That's pretty good for a coffee shop now. Yeah, I'm like, go. Go brew some coffee. Go. I don't know. That's pretty good.

And like they're desperate to hire people. They'll work schedules out. I'll figure it out. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Try the place next door. Service is still backfilling in a lot of cities. Not as much as before. Interesting.

But they're still back, filling. I know tech's hard. You can't just go out and get a random, like, side gig is easily in tech or anything. But if you work a little service for a bit, that's not a huge issue. Anything with tips. Yeah. Tips can bring in some really good money. Yeah.

Actually. Yeah, just ask a few questions. True. Flip this thing over real quick. Yeah. How much do you tip if you go into a place, like a Chipotle? Chipotle. Where they make the food in front of.

of you, but you're not sitting down and eating. What's the appropriate tip on that? Percentage. Uh, coffee shop, I always give a tip. Food delivery, always give a tip. Restaurant, I give a great tip. Yes, yes, yes. I give 30% at restaurants. But for like, whatever Chappolla, like a fast, casual sort of dining experience, because it's not an 18% or because you're not. A good tip at Chipotle? The way I see it is it's dependent on multiple different variables. If they serve, they have good service, then I'm tipping. But also, If they flip that screen over and the first button is 20%, that makes me upset. Is it ever 20%?

I always see 15. No, no, no, no. A lot of the times they'll flip it over. And the top, the first thing, the lowest you can tip is 20%. And that will make. There's always an other button, though. Yes, you can. But I'm just saying, like, when they provide you with three things, because no one's, very

few people go to the custom tip, usually do, you know, the three, 20, 25, 30 or 15, 20, 25. And if it starts out at 20, then that. for some reason, I don't know, I'm thinking to myself, like, that's what a lot of people tip at restaurants. And I would say there's a big delta between, you know, the service that's provided at a restaurant versus taking an order. And obviously, it gets split with the chefs and stuff like that. I mean, there's like kiosk and stuff. When I go to, like, a concert and I get, like, a little snack there. And it says, I pick it up from a roller. Yeah. And then it's asking for a tip. I smash. I punch that no tip button. Yeah. Because nothing was done there. I didn't see

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Thank you so much to Ramp for sponsoring this episode. So what are most people getting wrong about personal finance? Probably the behavior part. A lot of people think it's out of control. You know, we kind of talked about it already. It's just like, everyone just says, oh, they deserve, or is this out of my control. So much is behavior. You're seeing in the number.

numbers. I mean, $900 spent on DoorDash in today's episode. Did you really need to DoorDash $900 in a month when you literally couldn't pay for a $400 collection? So it's impossible. I don't have an extra $400. Okay. You do. It's like it gets control. So much more behavior than people think. Do you ever have a problem relating to some people who are on their show who are in situations that you have not been in yet? Like let's say a single mother with three kids, is that hard for you to like help her given that you haven't been in a situation like that yourself. Yeah, I think anything that I haven't been in, it's always going to be a little harder. I try to relate it to people I know in my life, family members or friends who have been through

certain things, you know, like I wasn't raised in a single family household, but I know people who have been and I've had conversations that. I try to try to relate it in some kind of way and I try to at least listen and be empathetic even though I'm known for interrupting. I try. I think the big, the big hard ones, I feel like I can relate to that pretty okay. The big hard ones. There's someone that, again, if it's like, I've never been in or known anyone that's been in a, like, horribly abusive situation.

I don't know how to relate to that. Never been in it. And I don't know people in it. And if I do, I don't know it because they don't want to talk about it. Yeah, there's that heartbreaking Dave Ramsey call. I remember that where someone was in an abusive situation and she called. And Dave Ramsey, like, do you need help? And she's like, yes.

Oh, yes. And they told her to, we're going to call 911 for you, like stay on the line. That was awful. I can't relate to that. That's hard. That's really hard. But that's usually when we try to connect them with different resources and stuff as well. What percentage of just the general, what you've seen come on your show can be solved with some more financial literacy and discipline versus the stuff that realistically these people are going to need to file for bankruptcy and take extremely drastic measures to completely reset?

Vast majority. Vast majority. I'd say only 5% this year that we've uploaded like it. It needs to be something extreme like bankruptcy. like the only option or, you know, so one out of 20. And the people that come on your show are probably a representation of some of the, the people that are lower on the scale of just general financial status.

Absolutely. So it's, we're talking a very small percentage of people you would say are actually financially screwed. Oh, well, I don't know about that. Again, when we go back to the,

what, average American doesn't have a thousand, can't afford a thousand hour emergency or the six thousand hour credit card balance. A lot of people are financially fucked. A lot of people don't have even close to an, enough for retirement. Like a lot of people are financially fucked. As dire is what we have on the show for the average or the median American, no, we're definitely on the lower half because, you know,

we want it to be a challenge. We want it to be more interesting, you know. It's definitely, but it's, these are still the people you're working with. They're the people you're walking next to on the street. There are people in your family talking about money's taboo in the country. So it's like, we don't know until they come on here. So many people actually have come on the show to send us, we talked to them in a follow-up and they're like, yeah, like my co-workers knew I was coming on the show and stuff, but they were so surprised at how bad my finances were. And it says, we don't know. Now, on their side, what's the most difficult part about being poor or broke?

Yeah, when you don't have an emergency fund, that's where things can get fucked. I mean, what happens, you know, a pet gets sick. You know, should get scary? That's got to be the worst, honestly, for a pet. Yeah. It's expensive. I had to take Bailey in. She had a little limp.

apparently she had a sprain. It was almost $1,000. $1,000 for medication, for them to look at it and do an x-ray. I did $30,000 recently. Wow. $30,000 multiple surgeries on my great paroneys. What happened?

She ate a toy, this small, little piece of a ball. Do you have insurance? I do. Save me 20. Because I think that was the cap. It was still 10. But it busted up her intestine So it exploded and then sepsis and stuff How's the dog?

Oh, she's great. She's great now. She's great now. That was a $30,000 surgery. Yeah, it was so hard to catch because usually they were telling me Like that blockage and stuff. It's like they can't keep down any food. They can't, you know, it's just diarrhea and vomit.

But she wasn't really showing that many symptoms. How did you know? It's because she like shows symptoms and then she'd be fine for a few days and then symptoms and then find few days. And I was like, okay. Well, that's it. I was send in. Send in. They sent her home saying,

nothing was wrong after x-rays. Then a week later, after symptoms, like, kept popping up, I'm like, okay, something's happening. She was acting slow and brought her over, and that's when they realized it split open. How did that was hard? Did they get a different? Scan or something? Yeah, they went with ultrasound. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Why do I think that this was the second time this had happened? Yes, because it is, because that's why she has to, she looks like a big scary dog every time she goes outside alone now because she wears a, what's it called? Muzzle. but it's not because she bites it's because she eats shit. Why? I don't know dude, she's obsessed. I was talking to one of the vets there

and her great parenting does the same. So she just, she eats shit. Is that a breed thing to like see something and just want to eat it? My other dog doesn't. My other dog chew sticks, but spits them out, you know? They chews on bones and stuff, but spits it out.

But I don't know, man, she's crazy. So I'm telling people, it feels so fucking mean. It feels so mean. But I've started to come to the mindset where like if you cannot afford pet insurance, you cannot afford a pet. Because if you can't afford to pay for a life-saving event or even if you can't afford to pay to take them in and have them throw up, you know how they can do that little medication if they eat something. If you can't afford to pay that, you can't. You can't a pet is a privilege. Yeah, they're your responsibility. You're taking on that contract, you know, that moral contract. Yeah, there was someone I knew who had a pet.

Didn't have pet insurance or it was something where the pet wouldn't be covered. The pet had an issue and there was like a 50-50 chance of survival, but it was going to be like a $20,000 surgery. Yeah. 50-50 chance. That's what mine was right. Didn't have any money. Took out a loan. Took out one of those because they offer the payday services or whatever it is.

I took out the loan, did the surgery. Pet didn't make it. Yeah. Didn't make it. It was a 50% of no. So now not only have you lost your pet. But you're $20,000 in debt on a payment plan for a pet that didn't make it. Yeah.

It just, that's got to suck. Because it's not like you want to say, oh, 50, 50, well, okay, let's save the money. You never want to just, like, save the money for a pet. Probably even if there's, like, a 20% chance of survival. Yeah. Probably want to take it. Oh, yeah. Gosh, that's got to be, that's got to be sad.

It's harder for a pet than it. I hate to say it's something's harder for a pet than a person because the pet really is, like, entirely dependent on you. Unless it's like a kid. Instead of a child. Yeah. Like a child would be, you know. But when something depends on you and it's like you're the one responsible for it.

Yeah. I used the one of the. I don't really, you know, get on like Reddit or anything anymore. But one thing I used to see back in the day, uh, people just kept saying, oh, Caleb yells at people for taking out credit cards to save their dog's life at the thing.

And I've like, don't think I've ever yelled at that. I yell at the fact that, They take out the credit card to, you know, do the vet bill. But then they go and blow a shit ton of money on fast food instead of paying off the credit card. It's like, I never understood that criticism. I've never yelled at them saving their pet's life. Me, I'm yelling at them not paying off the card.

Do it. If you don't have an emergency fund, do it. I would do it. But pay it off. Sacrifice for a bit and pay it off after you do it. How much is pet insurance? It depends on, you know, the breed and age and stuff. Both of my pups are like, I think, like, 35, 40 a month.

It's not bad at all. That's not bad. I got them young and healthy. Oh, okay. Before she started going crazy with her consumption. Do you think that's a good thing should I do that? I would. Really?

I would. You're not going to let a pet die. You're not going to let a pet die. No. And you're not going to want to spend $30,000 dollars either, so do it. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, she got quoted a while ago for a potential like a, like a,

elective surgery that like, hey, she might need this at some point. It was like, five grand. And I was like, I don't know about that. She's fine. Who? What? Who, which one? Bailey.

Oh, okay. Yeah. It was like, apparently these dogs are sometimes born without like, so weird, a kneecap. And like, her kneecap isn't fully developed on one leg. It's not an issue, but it might be an issue. And so it's like, do you want to do this, have the surgery now for something that might not be an issue? or not do it, and it might be an issue in the future,

but it might not be. And I was like, well, if it becomes an issue, then we could address it. Get the pet insurance, I think because of that, it might be a little more expensive depending. And I think Bailey's, what, five, four, six, four, okay. So, yeah, it gets more expensive the older they get. I'd get it young.

Get it young. You just got a cat, right? Yeah. Yes. Actually, I got a kitten, too. You're double catting? I'm double catting. So now your triple catting, right?

No, no, Ramsey. I was talking about the kid. Ramsey, Gigi is the new cat, and then Bailey. Yes. Gigi's very cute. I don't want to fish. She is. Oh, yeah, the fish.

A ton of fish. Oh, yeah, I don't think you pet insurance on fish. I don't even know if that's an option. That'd be pretty funny. That'd be interesting. Tank insurance for the coral. Gosh. That would be great.

Yeah, if your coral dyes, we'll pay you for it. I'm going to ruin your retention right now for a quick second, so you can cut this if you want. But I was dating. No, no, no, I was going on multiple dates with, someone and she had a nice coral, uh, tank. It was just beautiful, lots of fish coral. Then the big Texas freeze four years ago happened, it all died. Everything died. That's my nightmare. If it, if a tank goes without electricity for like eight hours, pretty much everything dies. And it depends on the temperature too, because because the oxygen

and the water. So the first thing, so the temperature can drop, that's okay up to like, you know, low 70s and things can survive from that. It's actually a lot better that the temperature goes down than go up. The temperature goes up too much, everything will die. It goes down a little bit more wiggle room there. But basically the fish just affixiate. It's just no oxygen in the water,

no running water and they'll just suffocate to death. Her room got 40 degrees for a week. Nothing, nothing could be done. Got to get a generator. Yes. I ended up getting a generator for the tank. Smart. Yeah. They were actually a sponsor

of a video and I used it, I plumbed it directly into the outlet, the breaker for the aquarium. That's so cool. So now it just takes over, it's electric, works great. Tank insurance. It's the new insurance.

It's worth it. What was it like for you? What were the statements like when you were in the worst financial situation you've ever been in? I don't look at them. I don't know, but I do know this. When I was really bad early college,

you know, I wanted my daily McD's, that was my dinner, and I could physically afford it because I was also active. What I would do is just find a way just to make the payment necessary on a credit card. So I had enough at the credit card before it hit to the limit to go to McDonald's and get that meal for that day. Because how could I cook?

I couldn't cook. I needed my tendies. What was the meal? What would you get? Chicken tendies. Back when they did it. Tendies, fries, and probably a shake. Wow.

It's the shake. The shakes are the real, like, calorie. some fat back then though. It didn't mean anything because I was active, walking around campus and stuff. Are you just less active now? Oh, yeah. I mean, just here, you know, we're at the studio. I'm going back and forth between the three units, but like, yeah, a lot less active now.

Are you motivated at all to try to get in better shape? To a certain point, I mean, it's the motivation that I tell a lot of people on the show as well. It's like, yes, I'd like to get thin or be more fit. but obviously my behavior is suggesting I prefer going and getting that meal or whatever, being lazier and not working out a bit more. Like mentally, yeah, I want to get there, of course. It's surprising to me that you're very dedicated when I come to business, money, finances, like all of that. It's like you're like a 10 out of 10, like perfect on that, very disciplined. But when it comes to health, there's little.

less of a focus on like wanting to dial it in. I think it's consequences. I always have a wake-up call. I had a financial wake-up call one day. Just, you know, everything was fucked and I realized how fucked it was. I joke with my friends. Like, I'm just like, I need to have a heart attack real quick. Someone ordered me a heart attack real quick.

It's give me, you know, if I have that, then I'm like, oh, fuck. It's how to get, it's like, you know, I don't have, I don't have any harder time going on dates or anything. I don't have any, there's been no. There's been no negative. You're not. at a point where you're going to have a wake-up call. I mean, like, you could be your entire life like you are right now and be totally fine.

It's, I feel like there's a bit of a health aspect of like, you know, be healthier. You might have more energy. You might, you know, look in the mirror and be like, yeah. But there's not going to be like, you know, someone is like, you know, can't. Like, I just don't think that's going to happen. Exactly. And that's why I'm not going to make an excuse. I mean, there's no excuse.

The fact is for those other things that I'm so disciplined in, as if I get less disciplined on the business, I see that in next months, you know, numbers when I sit down with my number two robber and we're looking over numbers. I see the immediate impact, right? The moment you've been waiting for is here. GMC's truck month is on. For a limited time, get zero percent financing for 72 months on the 2026 GMC Sierra 1500 crew cab pro graphite. Feel the strength of GMC Sierra's 5.3-3-liter V8 engine. Elevate your confidence with a factory two-inch lift and off-road suspension. Ready for whatever lies ahead. Power, capability,

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No scale. I want to. I want to, but obviously my behavior is showing that I want something. I think the hardest part is. starting. That's all it is. I think if you gave it 30 days, like you challenged yourself from January 1st to 31st, 30 days hiring a dietitian, meal preps, and a personal trainer three times a week. You don't even need a personal trainer. You could just go on a caloric deficit, honestly. I'm moving to a walkable community. And every time I, and before I moved to this house,

I lived in a walkable community and I was, you know, I was 30 pounds lighter. I went. on walks every day with the dogs. Now that I live in some, just, I love my house, but I just live in a suburban, suburban neighborhood, no streetlights, no sidewalks. It's dark when we get out of work in the winter. Because people refuse to keep permanent daylight savings time.

And, uh, I don't go on walks or anything anymore. I would like to see you get in really good shape this year. Because we've, we've almost done, dude, we've almost done like an audit a year between you and I going on. And I'll find something.

We could find, tuned a little bit. I think the first year was getting you off the franchise. We did that. That restaurant, man. It is as successful as ever, though. That's okay. But look at you. I think you made a better decision. I think you were the winner here. But I will say there's something beyond money that like I've noticed a lot of like really wealthy people are now gravitating towards like getting really fit and shape because that's something you can't really buy. Like you got to think of all the billionaires now are all doing the thing where they're all getting like jacked with six packs.

It's the one thing that like... They are. It's, yeah. It's now becoming the ultimate flex to be like in your 40s and 50s, but chiseled. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think that could be next for you because you've definitely done well in business as we're about to get to in a little bit. So keep watching and like and subscribe if you haven't done that already.

I mean, the world to us. But I think now that you've... Remember when I beat you guys to a million subscribers? Yeah. That was fun. Yeah, we don't think about that. Okay. But now that you've done well in all these aspects,

I think the next thing for you would be fitness, just dialing it in. And you might command a little more authority with guests being like, hey, I did. Yeah, I don't know if that's a good thing. Like having a jacked rich guy, like Chad. Yeah, like 12 employees like yelling at you. I feel like that's a different, you know.

Honestly, I mean, I can tell you guys, I have not talked about this on the show. I do hear that. I really do. And I know that's something that at some point really does need to be taking advantage of. One thing that is just like awakened in me this year that I almost feel like I'm falling behind in life.

I fucking, I want wife. I want kids. I've never felt that in my life before. I've always joked about it on this show. 29. I've always joked about it on the show. But for some reason something this year, I've felt like I'm like failing.

you're having a lot of couples on the show do you think I could have anything to do with it dude imagine it's like the subliminal messaging is coming out as Gaila's guests come on the show couples No it doesn't It's been really weird

Is it because of the financial success I don't know I do have financial success I have no one to share with I don't go to home to home to anyone I don't know I feel like I'd like to pass it along

I don't know dating dating's always been easy and fun and I love going on dates and I go on a lot of dates and I don't know but there's that

I feel like there's just that's a big missing chunk and I my family was in town this last weekend and I got the most thoughtful amazing gift from my mom of a photo album I've never had one before

and it showed my entire life and I saw my parents with like seven year old me no 10 year old me and they're my age now the age I am right now had a 10 year old me and I'm like what the fuck am I doing?

Yeah but you wouldn't have been able to do all of this with a 7th really that would have been an uphill battle it could also be part of the holidays you know a lot of people feel like around the holidays I've been feeling this year though it's been building up this year more than ever before like I've you know felt like oh it'd be nice to have a girlfriend before

you know and we've joked about that and stuff I've never felt the way I feel this way. Man, I give it five years. Like, you want to make sure the person that you, that you end up finding, like, you give it a few years with them and like a few years just to YouTube. Because once you have a kid, it's like that you can never undo that. You know, there's always going to be a kid no matter what. Like, your life will change forever because of that. Like, there's no going back.

And so, like, I think it's better to live it up now with someone else. I'm curious. And you, are you a single little guy? Yeah, I'm a single little guy. And I'm feeling a little bit of the pressure, too. I just turned 26. And I'm definitely like, once I hit that age, too, I'm like, okay, like, I'm past, you know, the first quarter of a century. Yeah.

I feel like I should probably get on it. But I'm curious for for you, what were you looking for previously just to go on casual dates and have fun or whatever? Yeah, I just, I enjoyed casual dates and it would be okay if a relationship happens here and there. Just I never really took it like super seriously. What's preventing you from getting into a relationship now, then? I guess nothing's preventing really. busy with this job because this job doesn't just exist here you know it exists when I go home I'm also beat afterwards because we do so much more than just filming the show you know now it's

it's a full-fledged business and and also just I love spending time with the friends as well and I don't know it's it's a busy life is that really what it is being busy I think so I mean I go on the dating apps and I try to ask some people out in person as well which was risky. But, uh, yeah. Dude,

I would give it five years. Unsolicited Graham advice. Just head down, buckle down five years. You told me. You told me a few months ago to just like not even go on dates anymore. Yeah, I think I said that.

You said it was just like too risky now. Yeah. I think for everything that you're building. Makes me extra nervous. But I also think any distraction is a bad thing from taking your eye off. But what's the point of this, right? What is the point of this? I think it's a short-term sacrifice.

Five years? We're not talking about a 30-year career. I'm just saying, just to give him a little bit of credit. You have a certain goal and future idea of what you want your life to look like. And maybe Caleb has a completely different dream life down the road. So your advice to him in terms of what you personally would do may not be, you know, sympathetic towards whatever Caleb wants. I see the spot that Caleb is in right now.

I could relate closely to it. And I think five years, I think you set yourself up for a lot of longevity. Yeah. For five years and an industry that changes very quickly where anything happens, I think five years solidifies yourself as like, you know, a paramount person in this space in such a way where you're going to slowly over time, remove yourself from the business. Like, it's not going to be Caleb Hammer show indefinitely. it's going to evolve.

I think it's going to evolve. You're slowly going to remove yourself and be more of an operator and investor and all these other things, a business owner. And then I think that's the appropriate time. And hey, if someone comes along, I'd be receptive to it.

But I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to like go out there and, you know, unless you enjoy it, unless it's like something you love doing. I love going on dates. Then keep doing that. I like going on dates. Keep doing that.

I'll give you two things. One, just saw my parents, right? I want my kids to be able to grow up with active young grandparents. You know, I want them to be able to experience grandparents. But in two, you know, especially more these days, you tend to date more like, you know, one, two, three years in your range. It's not the 1950s anymore. If I'm 35 dating my range, talking about the biological clock if we're just being purely realistic. I know modern medicine's great.

But there is that. It's what a lot of people fear. I don't have the biological clock. But a lot of people I talk to fear that. And if I'm waiting five years and if I'm 35 and I'm married to someone who wants to say the young end of 32, you know, that's probably like ticking in their brain. That's probably ticking in their brain. Well, Twitter would be up in arms. Like, we, we don't think they would.

I don't think anyone cares. I don't think any real people care. No. No, real people don't care. Terminal the online rage bait, absolutely. But, yeah, I don't know. It's just, I don't know. It's something that's been weighing on me a lot this year.

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House. Wife. Two to three kids. Two dogs, two cats, two cows, two cows. That'd be cool. Walkable community. How are you affording this? Where's the money coming from?

I could retire right now. I could retire and live a good, happy, upper middle class life. So technically speaking, the only thing that you can now optimize for, if you want to achieve that exact dream that you just stated, was you need to find a wife and two cows. Yes. And two dogs. I have two dogs. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, I guess I could do the ultimate stretch goals. I like building the business. I like building the business is fun. I'm competitive with myself, right? So I like building the business. That's another part of life. So that would be another thing that I'd like to see.

It's not about the collection of all the wealth. It's like, I just love this. And I love, I mean, you met so many employees today, you know? It's cool. It's fun. I love working with these people. I'd come here just to hang out, honestly, just to chill down. You have a very good work environment.

Well, thank you. It's fun. I can't wait for you guys to see the new place. It's lighthearted. I like it. In terms of your work, you're in your perfect schedule. How often would you be at the office? 9 to 5, Monday through Friday.

I mean, I do love the work. It is fun. How much would the house be? How much money? Yeah. The house I'm getting right now, I think, is my perfect house. Really? It's in a walkable community, and I value that more.

I didn't realize how much I value that more than almost anything. I want to be able to walk to the pub. I want to walk to the grocery store. I want to walk to everything, but it's also quiet, it's safe. It's cute, great parks. How much money would you need to support your lifestyle, your kids, your wife, wife, would she be working? Dream, dream, dream?

She could do whatever she wants, but dream, dream, dream. I mean, I'm pretty close. I think I'd be able to pull off 300 a year now. Pretty close. Do you think that's how much it would cost? No, no, no, no, no. We would be beyond comfortable with that. I could do less.

I could do two. With three kids? Well, I guess I haven't mapped the kids. And the nice house? I haven't mapped the kids. Yeah. I guess I haven't met the kids. $30,000 a year per kid.

What? Is that the... PBD was telling me $100,000 a year per kid. That's... That's PVD's kids. I understand. But, okay, so we're talking elite private school, after school activities, nanny. I'm okay with public school. I don't need to go.

I didn't mind public school. You're going to state college. It's like, I don't know. $30,000 a year a kid. Yeah, I don't want them to grow up like if we're like privileged or anything either, like spoiled. And I grew up with spoiled and I grew up with like a billionaire kid and millionaire kids who were also super chill because they, weren't spoiled. You know, I wouldn't want all that. I don't know. That's not my vibe. Yeah. So you think 300, 300 grand. Sure. It's hard for me to picture. I haven't priced out

because that's not a realistic thing right now. I'm not. $400,000 a year. I'm not popping out. I just say it's before tax, 400. It's hard for me to math it out. That's more of a security thing. Less of I want, I want, I want. It's more of a security thing because my life still, I think we talked about this last time. My life has not really changed since going on here. We're able to go to nice a restaurant, you know, as the friend group, but I hang out with the exact same friends before as I did afterwards. About a Tesla, that was exciting. I don't know.

It's like, I don't know. I guess that number is more of a security thing. I don't have the I want, I want, I want, I want. That's fair. Because I don't travel, you know, what do people do? They travel and they get on planes. There you go. How is your progress, Ben?

Because I remember that was a sticking point. You have a fear of flying. Nope. It's not a fear of flying. What was it? It was the anxiety of being in a combined space. Not having control. Yeah.

The most extreme version of that anxiety is people are afraid to leave their house. I have the light version, right? I have the light version, essentially. Yeah, gorephobia. Yeah. So I have like a version of that, probably. I mean, that's at least what therapists have said. So that's like the light version, you know.

Are you doing anything to work on that? Honestly, since we've talked about it, everything's just been. So there's only been one thing that I was like, Yeah, that would have been cool. But other than that, I've been just grinding and happy. It'd be cool to go back, fly back to Michigan. Maybe. I hate this now. Family would be cool, though, but they just came down.

I don't know. It hasn't been a big goal this year. I thought it would be, but it wasn't. You know what would change your life? Honestly, you get in shape for a year. Like, you get jacked. And when you finally reach a milestone, like, whether that be on the scale or, like, lifting a certain amount or something like that, you get on an airplane.

plane. Okay. And you go back and visit your family. I swear, man. That will change the entire trajectory of your life if you could accomplish those two things. And make your goal to get on the plane when you hit the goal. Or become best friends with Dave Ramsey and you is one of those PJs. That's it. That's the easy way out. But you know what? If it gets you on a plane. Actually, one thing we thought about doing for our paid member, our paid membership on our YouTube memberships is a vlog of us just renting a plane to fly up for like an hour and circle around Austin just to get on the plane you know but it would it wouldn't be like the full cost because this is circling but it would it would show that oh I can be on the plane I can be okay you know what

you could do that would be hilarious instead of getting a private jet you booking every single seat on the airplane so it's just you that would how much would that cost I don't know I don't It would be more than a private jet. Probably. But I think it would be hilarious just to be you on the airplane. That's it. The whole thing is just you. We'd have to make a content.

That'd be funny. You know what? I'm surprised. Honestly, something like Mr. Beast wouldn't do that for a short. Yeah. Buying every seat on an airplane. It would be logistically challenging.

Like, how are you going to find a flight that has no seats booked already? And then. You just book way in advance. Like, you probably like as soon as it comes out and like, yeah, that's possible. Okay. Or just leave one seat open and just a random person. Oh, that would be funny. I'd put that person next to you.

Yeah. That would be funny. Okay, I'm curious in terms of dating. You said that you would go up to people and just cold approach people. You're still doing that? Every once in a while, I'm not like a go-to-bar kind of person. You know, when I hang out with my friends, we either at each other's place or I get a restaurant. But every once in a while, you know, dog parks and something like that. Tell me, how does that typically go for you?

I have a mini panic attack and then I'm like, okay, let's go. and then I go and then I don't remember anything as I'm spurning out nonsense as I try to ask for a number and then I walk away. And how what's your success? Oh, there's a lot to be like 5%. Seriously, 5%. Yeah, it's pretty low. 20 women and then one of them will say yes and give it. That feels about right.

That feels about right. And do you usually ask for a phone number at the end of it? Yeah, or Instagram or something. And one in 20 will give it to you. Maybe. that's I'm hard guessing. What do you think is causing, that seems slightly low.

I feel like 30%. It's a little awkward. I know I'm a bumbling awkward dude when I'm in that situation. And I'm bad at the, you know, I feel like the success rate would probably go from 5% to 15%

and that's just pure guess on both ends. But like if I did the whole conversation for five to 10 minutes and close off with, okay, I'm gonna go, you want to look soon? And it's like, that would probably be better, but I just kind of go.

And I'm like, you're cute. That's what you said. So you started off with a compliment. So I got recommended this video. I loved it. This guy just started a brand new YouTube channel. His first video got like 600,000 views. And it was him approaching 100 women to try to get a phone number.

And it's just him with one of those like, you know, sunglasses, you know, like what you have. Just him going and asking, hey, I think you're cute. Can I get your phone number? No, no, no. I think he got like one out of 100. it. And all the comments were like, yo, you're doing this wrong. You should just like start small talk, talk this and I. And they gave him critiques. And he went out and did it again. And he ended up getting like almost like one and four saying yes, you're getting a number.

It was, I think it was to agree to go on an instant date with him. But the secret was like just general small talk first without any objective was just like chit chatting. And it seemed very natural. And like obviously you could tell you was awkward in the beginning. But you see his progress through like one through 20 and by 20 in and he's doing this all in a day. Like he's kind of warmed up doing well and just getting like instant dates. That's interesting. Getting instant numbers. It's a lot of work.

Yeah, you got to work on it and just really practice it. Do you notice yourself getting better than more you do it? Well, the thing is they're just so far in between. Yeah. It's kind of like a restart every time. I had a success two days ago where I left the number for a waitress. Most beautiful person I've ever, literally most beautiful person I've ever seen. never seen anyone more beautiful

left my phone number she didn't text me but her cute friend texted me how did that work out she just gave it to her friend she was like she's married

so she gave it to her friend and she was like ah here's this guy he's cute and she text me and she's really cute too you know what I would do if you're doing this at least make content out of it

like for members or something like this no no really film it yeah okay that would be amazing to watch I would love to watch

well if you want to apply to be my wife and child bear go to Caleb Pammer.com slash only fans. That's where it's where all is. Is it actually a, you know what? We should make a, we should make a link.

Like a little Google forms. Yeah. Would you ever have a form where people can submit to go on a date with you? No, unless it was for a show. Unless it was for a show. It'd have to be for a show. I don't think so. Yeah, sure.

Because then you just get parisocial, I have a feeling, you know? It would just be like, yeah. Fan, fan, fan, and it's just like. Film, put it on the show. Like, do what Jubilee does where you have like a sheet in between you. But where you have a sheet in between you. But where you have a sheet in. between you and you're just talking to people.

You can't see them. And just like have them answer questions. And then you pick the one that you like the most out of the top 20. And then you go on a date with them. And maybe on the date you discuss credit scores and like savings goals and just things like this. And it's a fantastic show. Yeah. The girl that you picked on your blind date on your, I ended up talking to her just on accident.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. But long distance. so I don't want. Do you tend to get more nervous? This is once again a bad sounding question, but the more pretty. Give it to me. The girl is. Does it tend to make you more apprehensive to go and to talk to her? Probably. I'm not nervous on dates, but I'm definitely nervous asking people out. Yeah. That's definitely the scary part. Um, I think I'm nervous either way because I'm obviously

attracted to them if I'm asking them out. Yeah. So I'm like. And have you ever cold approached someone and then they recognize you? Ooh, I think once, I think, I think, I fucking buried that down. Yeah, I was like, yeah, but I love your show. I have a boyfriend, but I love your show. One of those. It would be even worse. It would be like, my boyfriend loves your show.

Yeah. I almost asked someone out who, I almost asked for someone's Instagram who came up to me the other day and started talking, but she was with someone. And I just couldn't do it because it could have been a brother. Here's what you asked. All you, I'll tell you, the way to get around.

that. How do you guys know each other? Instant. Oh, it's my boyfriend. Oh, cool. How long have you been together? Two years. That's awesome. Hey, you know, do you live nearby? And then you just spin it off. But any time it's what? You know, go ahead. I'm just, anytime they're like, oh, this is my friend. Now all you need to do is is no, now pay attention to the friend and like make him feel like he's a part of the conversation. And ignore her? I think it's a polite thing to do. Ignore her?

No, no, no, no. You just involve everyone in the conversation. Oh, yeah, cool, yeah, yeah. No, but you chitch out with the guy for a little bit. Yeah. You know, because you don't want to make it seem like, all right, I'm going to block you out. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

I'm always awkward in those encounters anyway when anyone comes up to me. Like, I just never really know what to say. I'm just like, oh, thanks for watching. Fist bump. Yeah. So if you came up to Caleb a couple days ago, which is sometime in December. In Home Slice. and at home slash.

That's a great. I'm going to go there when I'm here. It's a great pizza spot. If you came up to Caleb and you had a gentleman with you, slide into his DMs. Absolutely. Or something.

Calebhammer.com slash only fans. It's cute. Don't be afraid to ask how they know each other. Yeah, that's smart. That's really smart. I don't know. Did I think about that?

What about dating apps? Yeah, I mean, that's where I get the majority of my dates is hinge and bumble. Those are the two I use. Hinge and bumble. What do you find to be more successful? Um,

whatever one I'm focusing on. I can't do both at the same time. So I'm just like going in on one. And what do you think about dating fans? Do you think that's a weird thing, like someone who watches your content? Okay, it's really difficult because I have, I'm in a weird situation now where it's like almost anyone and everyone that I just like me in general has at least seen a clip. Because clips have gone viral or now they're like, I've seen the Rocket Money commercial, you know? So it's like they've seen the face.

So a lot of people know who I am where they are in the stage of like, oh, I'm a die-hard fan or, oh, yeah, I just know you. exist. That's what I don't know. So I would totally cool to go on a date with like, unless we get to the parasycial weirdness where it's like they know everything about me. I know nothing about them. That's a little bit weird. I accidentally went on one of those dates. They didn't, they didn't tell me until during. It wasn't a very good date. But if someone knows of my existence, that's totally fine. It's totally fine. I know there's conversations around power dynamics and stuff, but I don't know. It's really weird. Again, things are. I think it's impossible to to not have a power dynamic in some capacity.

Like, even if you have a really beautiful woman and, like, an average looking dude, there's going to be a income difference. Yeah, but there's going to be a power dynamic there just because she'll have more options than the guy. That's the conversation that Twitter tends to fail to have with power dynamics is everything has a power dynamic. Technically, you have a power dynamic right now because you guys are going to edit this and whatever it is is what it is.

That's fine. Even if I have a say, like, there is a power dynamic between a teacher and a student and a mother and a daughter and a me and my pet, there's a power dynamic. anywhere. Power dynamics are not a bad thing. Abuse of power dynamic. Of course. And how do you abuse it? Everyone always brings up, but there's a power dynamic. That's not a bad thing. It's like, hey, you don't get to come on this show unless you do this naughty bad thing. That's an abuse of a power dynamic. That's what people need to freak out about. But so I wouldn't have the issue of them knowing I exist and us getting dinner. That wouldn't be a too big of a deal for me.

It just gets weird. If it's parisocial, then that's a little. when I'm not having fun anymore. It's like, you know everything about me. That's just me trying to, you know, this just gets weird. Yeah. So I've noticed you lean a lot lately into relationship dynamics. What have you noticed between almost counseling couples with their finances?

I do not know why, but they do not talk about their fucking money. Why don't they talk? No one talks to each other about their money. There's always a hidden debt we discover. Almost every episode, just a hidden debt. and they just don't talk about it. Or when they go to have the conversation, one becomes bickering and nagging towards the other person. The other person becomes mute and never wants to participate in that conversation.

Again, the communication around finance in this country, especially among couples, is horrendous. I don't get it. We've never had one couple on the show where the communication is not at least bad in some way. Who spends more money? Men or women? On our show, I don't know the real answer, but on our show, it's been the dudes. What are they spending it on? They get their tool debt and they get their board and, you know, they get their manly toys.

They're only fans. Yeah, they always have some truck in the back that they're going to fix. They're going to fix, you know. But there's a car payment on it still, even though it's not running. So why do you think they're not talking? Is it the guy who just purely doesn't want to, like, involve his wife or girlfriend, fiance and his own finances? Are there shared finances as a separate?

it becomes an argument every single time, every single time. It just, it always becomes a blame game or they feel like it's a blame game. Like, we're calling out these purchases. What? You calling out this stuff that I'm buying? Oh, like, it's all my fault. You think it's all my fault? It always becomes an argument.

They don't know how to communicate it in a healthy way. When you have couples on the show like that, though, what dynamics do you notice do not work? Like, can you tell if people are a good fit for each other or not? Yeah, there's definitely the independent versus codependent. people. I'm sure they can figure out in other aspects of marriage, but when one person wants their finances to be their finances and the other one wants to achieve these goals together, getting into retirement together, paying off these debts together, nope. And the comments are always like, we'll see a divorce follow up in six months, you know? It's like, when they're just

not on that same page. I know finance isn't the leading cause of divorce in the country, but it's one of the major ones. And if one person just like, this is my money, I'll bring in my money, I want to spend my money, you know. So what's your advice for couples? Definitely that you need to go into the conversation about budgeting if it's your first time in a non-combative spirit, not doing accusations of, oh, why did you spend this much money on this toy?

It should have been that. Let's document where the money was spent, not who spent it, and just what are the goals we want to do. What does it take to get there? And then budget for those goals equally. Do you think a saver could live a happy life with the spender? As long as they're willing to hit the goals together, I think so. If the if the spender wants to overtake and not hit any of the goals that the saver wants to get into, I think that's pretty hard. And if the saver's not willing to have any fun that the spender wants to do, then I think that's going to be hard as well. But if they're at least willing to set reasonable goals that they want to get to together, and they're both willing to make their compromises to get there, I think that's fair.

I've noticed mental health has came up in your show a lot. I mean, it's nearly every episode at this point. Yeah. What percentage would you just generally say that is part of the equation of these people's poor financial standings? In terms of them bringing it up, 99%. In terms of it actually impacted them, probably closer to 25%. I've had people with real issues and we want to help. them out. A lot of people that get back to the corner and they'll bring up some mental health thing. We have an interesting, I'm very curious 20 years when they look back in this period of culture, what they're going to say. A lot of it is on TikTok right now of the mental health and trauma Olympics has to be one up in each other. Has to be, here's my trauma, here's this thing. And then people get convinced that they have a trauma in a mental health thing.

And it's just one up and one up and one up and. And lots of self-diagnosis. I've had way too many people that come on the show. They get backed into the corner of like, hey, you are wrong for this. This is what you need to do to fix it. And then they have some self-diagnosis that they never had through a mental health professional. I will respect it and I will take it seriously when you talk to a professional and they at least give an inkling that you might have something. Even if it's not an official diagnosis, that is when I will respect it. But if you are getting pushed back on for the first time in your life and you say, well, my anxiety is too high.

It's like, ah. Is this all just because we become a little too soft and a little too, like, gentle with each other? that people just aren't getting the reality of the situation. Can't just be told, hey, get your act together. Like, that's not okay. That's not cool. Maybe that might be a part of it. I still really think just the way social media is, you know, I'm on the cusp of Gen Z.

You're technically Gen Z. A lot of that generation that we're involved in or on the cusp of is, it really is kind of the Olympics of just how bad are things. Like, you have to be, you have to have the worst trauma. you have to have the worst situation. And it gets the best engagement. You get rewarded for it on the platforms. And I don't know, that's a big part of it.

And then people are convinced that they have a trauma. Like someone will tell a story. And then like comments will flood and you know, you've been through so much trauma and all this stuff. You're a victim and all this. And it's this. Why do you think the victim mentality lately has seen such a surgence? I'm sure we have been flow through everything, right? We haven't flow through cultures.

We had the sexual revolution in what, 60s, 70s, 80s. And now we're almost having like an ambinful, anti-sexual revolution amongst the youngest people where like people can't date, people are really lonely, and like people aren't even willing to have the conversations about sex. I feel like we probably Evan flow through this. You know, it's interesting I saw on Twitter. The amount of people who thought the founding fathers were heroes or evil. The majority of Gen Z believed that the founding fathers were evil versus heroes versus boomers who almost all thought they were heroes. It's interesting to see just how culture is shifted

And how people's mindset Is going towards a Let's focus on the bad You're also more rebellious when you're younger too Okay, all right I'll give you that That's something I didn't think of Yeah

You know, he's got to push back Be against the man That's true Everything's you know We're fighting the system So what are the biggest success stories That you've seen from financial audit We've had a quite our new

Financial Audit follow up channel We've had quite a few people come on completely debt-free, getting that emergency fund, starting to make progress towards those goals. Every time we see that, it's the most rewarding thing of the show, you know, actually seeing those real results, because you can get lost in the, you know, filming every day, making sure the uploads are going well, all this stuff. When you see real people getting real results, that is definitely. Yeah, so what do you do when they leave the show? Like, how do you support them and make sure that they stay on the right track? Yeah. So what we tell them specifically for communication

and everything, we say, hey, we filmed with a few hundred guests, reach out to us for anything. We'll reach out to here and there, but the main thing is if you need anything or any questions at all, you reach out to us. What we give them is access to our Discord and private Discord for past guests where they can cheer each other on. We give them our budgeting class, our investing class, and our debt class. And then we give them the free app forever, free budgeting app forever. And then any resources they personally want and ask for, they get free certification through course careers for, you know, income help.

They get three free therapy sessions every once in a while with the some of the financial advisors that I use. They can get some free sessions to sit down with them or if they don't will at least cover that session. So anything and everything they need. And then any questions they have along the way they can reach out. And then we have them for follow up channels and reassess. So here's what I'm curious about. how many guests are really unhappy with a thumbnail? At this, well, before, you know, in the first year, you know, decent, you know, a few here and there.

Now basically none. Basically, are some that I'm looking at where I see them posted because I, uh, dude, there's so much fun. But the thing is, the thing is, the onboarding process is so fucking extensive. They probably hear. Dude, these are funny. I'm going to kill him. Nasty woman, girl man. I deserve his money.

Fuck you. Pay me. Parasite. With every single one of them, the first phone call they have, it is told about the titles and thumb. Plus, again, they're from the audience. They literally see it. But how about this one? Controlling husband exploits young bride to serve.

That was a good one. How do they? Because it got 720,000 views. I guarantee that this person. like boss sees that, their coworkers see that, their family sees that. And they are a hundred billion percent aware of that every time. Most people tell everyone around them that they're coming on. They're co-workers.

They ask permission from their boss, a lot of people. You know, there's a lot that goes into it. And we give them the warnings of all that as well, so they can prepare for it. But they are asked permission. I probably two times for the thumbnail entitled before they come on. They're asked permission in the green room. Then they watch the onboarding video going over the thumbnail processes. Then if you go in the green room, you'll see our thumb and

nails in there with titles under them. That's a good idea. Okay. Yeah, they are given literally every opportunity in the world. Every, they're, we've gone beyond extensive. I've seen other YouTubers react to our content and they're in, you know, the Brent video where we kind of go over the process of how we do it and they're like, I mean, you guys don't need to be doing all this type of, this is, this is overboard.

You guys are going overboard on your onboarding process. These people can just look up the channel before they come on and know what they're getting into. Yeah. Which is true. I mean, why fucking baby people? You're an adult. Know what you're fucking doing.

You're going on the show. But also, fuck it. We do have a responsibility in my mind. I wouldn't feel morally comfortable if we weren't giving them every opportunity in the world to know exactly what they're doing. But even then, do you ever get people still saying after the fact, I don't like it? Or it's like, hey, I know what I'm getting into. I understand it. I'm an adult.

They are so beyond aware. They are so beyond aware at this point that we don't get a single complaint. We change the process any and every time that there ever is a complaint. So if we ever had the reason the onboarding process exists, honestly, because of someone like Brent. I was like, I didn't know what the thumbnail would have me crying or something. It's like, okay, we change the process. You make it better. It is always about growth and making it better.

Now, I'm curious in terms of your overall business. Like, I got to say, you know, Jack and I showing up here, a lot has changed. It's incredible. Like, we walked into a different business than we did before. How has it changed from your perspective? Yeah, I mean, we're just really building the business is my favorite thing. This is fun. It's not only a hobby, but I'm competitive with myself.

You know, there's a lot of avenues we're going into with the special project, whether or not that's in this video. Further diversifying our content with your week and money and financial auto follow-ups. You know, we do have our education now. So we have marketing with that. You know, our biggest part of the business is still the video side. So, you know, we have their shorts editor and then two video editors and then an ad editor.

And then, you know, three people soon on the casting side. So that's pretty big. We also have the inside sales rep who's able to go get sponsors that I want and stuff like that. You have surpassed everything that I like, everything that I could imagine should be done. Like you've done that plus 50%. And effectively, too. There's only a million things more I want to do.

Part of me wonders, like, I'm intimidated by seeing all the people and all the back end infrastructure that you have set up. How do you learn how to do that? I feel like I would just be kind of lost with, you know. Well, yeah, I mean, you don't do it all at once, right? You grow it. And like I brought on my friend and also past co-worker Robert, who, you know, he's also really good at this. And we put our heads together a lot. And, you know, we work on it together. And, you know, I throw them a lot of the more miscellaneous task, a lot of the HR, a lot of stuff like that.

So, so I don't know. You surround yourself the right people. You vet people well. We've never had any bad experience with any employees. So everything's been good. But even before people are hired, we bring them in for a day just to see if they culture fit and stuff because we're a little rambunctious. You know, we like to have fun. So it's just, I don't know. I think if you put in the right investment, it works out. How do you keep people motivated? I like relatively robust bonus structures. Some people are on like quarterly structures.

Some people, if they hit certain metrics on what they're working on, they get bonuses. But also, since I think it is a fun place to work in general compared to like if you're going to go to most corporations, I think people, like to see the end results. I know people got fired up today when we got the the results of the 10,000 hours paid off in 10 months, median thing. Like, that's really good to hear. I don't know, just seeing the growth. Everyone has such an integral part that no one is just here because they're here and they're not. There's not one person that you could take away in. Oh, that's okay. In terms of the revenue, could you break it down on like a pie chart in terms of where it comes from? Like, you don't have to say a specific number. Just

percentage terms like. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty. bad at that. Really? Let me give you the exact one. Can you get my laptop from the table now? Gramma Jack, I want to give them the best. All right. Give them the best.

I actually really like these. I did too. They're so nice. They're needos. They don't even sponsor, but I'll say it. If you could find a way to manufacture these and sell them, I swear. Like, this is the coolest thing I've held in my hand. Okay.

November. November ad rates for the YouTube channel was 32. 98% 1 dedicated sponsor was 11% membership was 7% another dedicated sponsor was 14.4 and a bunch of other little follow-up, different ads,

Patreon, that kind of crap. And then our secondary channels, that all adds up to about, I think it looks like, 10%. And then all other minor sponsorships coming together 15.4 and then classes at 11. But no...

Yeah. That's pretty healthy in terms of diversification. How do you plan to expand that over time? I want to make our education system more robust. We don't want to go through anything cash-grabby. There's just such a bad negative connotation and fairly so of like other influence or gurus out there who have just put out classes and they're just shitty. You know, that's why we do like, oh, a month. Take the class.

If you didn't find it valuable, we'll refund you, no questions ask. Also, our refund rate is 25% of industry average. So, like, we know we're doing things right. And the refund rate overall is, what, like 3%, 2%? Yeah, it's lower than that. It's like really low. And ours is 25% of that. So I know we're, so we want to build that out, make sure we're actually providing value.

Then again, with the special project, whether or not that it was announced, that'll be, hopefully a part. Building out our YouTube membership is a really helpful part as well. And we do all these dedicated shows behind it, behind the paywall there. and that helps support the ups and downs and everything. So I'll tell you what I think you need to do. I'll give you my unsolicited advice. Get a guy on the street.

I think a man on the street sort of style right now for shorts that you could turn into long form like 15 minute videos. I love this channel, the school of hard knocks. Have you seen this guy? He goes, what do you do for a living? Like, I love that. They're great videos. And this guy has no fear going up to like strangers. Hey, had we ever broke before.

How'd you make your money? I love this channel. Get a guy who's like really good going up to strangers. on the street and you're in the perfect spot for it like the bar scene but instead of the pickup videos or they're like flirting with women talk about money talk about finances have couples on it on our job on the i would do it yeah i would actually be fantastic i just i did it already i just i know editing i could stand the production you were really good at it man you had a good knack at yeah they did well i would do it but i just don't want to produce it yeah that's fair that's what i would do

so i would do the man on the street that's its own segment different from you then what i would what I think would be really interesting. And I'm giving you all the ideas that I just don't have the energy for, but I know they would do well. Have an attorney on that goes through legal issues for people. So it's like they'll get like a free attorney,

but like imagine I come to you and like, you were talking about the landlord issue. Nobody still is having to X. Yeah. And I just say like, hey, dude, my landlord is this and that. And there's like, can I see your lease? Show the lease. And they kind of go over it.

But it's like, you know, we came up. Oh, there's another one. Okay, so the legal, a legal thing. The next thing I'd love for you to do is a fitness audit. Okay. I'll have to hire someone with that one. Yeah, it doesn't have to be, I'm not talking like you, but I think hire.

It'd be funny. The biggest laser on YouTube. Yeah, hire someone who's just like, you know, ripped. But basically to do a, like, Jack. Yeah, they're all yours. Do a fitness audit of people where they could go through. And this is a lot more work. But like, go through and like go through their.

diet. Like you go through someone's finances, go through, like, have them track what they eat for like a month or for a week or something like this. Something like that. But they go through and it's like you ate at cheeseburger. What are you thinking you did? Pancakes with this and this mocha thing. That's 700 calories. Now that'll really outrage right in. But you know what? You a fat shamer. I think that would be, that would be good. And like, you know, put them on the spot in a place that they could get healthy and could learn the proper exercises and ways that they could get in shape

and diversifying away from you. I think that's the only thing I would do. And eventually you have the Caleb Hammer, the audit brand. Because right now you've got financial audit. I want to see fitness audit. I want to see legal audit. Yes.

That's it. I want to see the man on the street. Why aren't you doing things? It's not the energy for it. I don't have it. I have zero motivation to do it. Like to me, it sounds daunting. It sounds like a ton of work and I'm like, do I really want to do that?

Probably not. Is this the guy you want to partner with? Are you sure you don't want to? Jack doesn't have motivation. I'm trying to. That's false. The thing is, we're both passionate about what we're passionate about and it's hard to expand the parameters. Right now, the ice coffee hour for me is all I want. It's all I need. I would consider doing other things, but most of the time the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Like, I want to go and I want to make straight interview videos, but at the same time, I don't want to do all of the post-production process. I want to go try this thing out, but I know that that's going to also. There's going to be all of this auxiliary work with any other venture that's taken on.

There's nothing wrong with hiring people. Hiring good. I don't like it. We pay a lot. We pay a lot of agencies to do certain things for us. And we have a few people that we pay to take care of a lot of our responsibility. So we don't really have any like full-time things employees, but we do have money going out to several different people that provide services for us that make our lives easier. You like third parties because that's the thing.

We're trying to in-house almost everything because I feel like no one cares. You make a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more than us. Well, yeah, okay. Well, maybe if you in-house things more, you would be able to make things better, though. True. Like, that's why we in-house our source and stuff. To me, it's management. It's now we have to manage someone and oversee that.

I don't like, what? You're like meetings, like sitting down and just making things better? Just like strategizing and like getting in the weeds. I love getting in and just like, let's figure this shit out. I love title thumbnail strategy conversations. Like this, this I love title thumbnail I like. And then the review process of making sure the episode is perfect.

I like that. I hate more than sitting down and making a thumbnail. I would prefer to build out like systems than I would that stuff, honestly. Really? Yeah. We all sit in that room over there and we spend an hour three days a week making titles and thumbnails. And I never felt a noose around my neck. Just hire me as a consultant.

Oh. That's all it is, man. You'd make ours too nice. They wouldn't be as fun and rowdy anymore. And give you, give you some good ideas. So in terms of your own finances, you mentioned in the past that you're worried about dying poor and a Walmart floor. Are you still worried about that? Maybe my worries change.

Maybe I'm less worried about that. And I'm worried about the getting old wife kids thing. I don't know. Interesting. Shift it. Maybe it shifted. I don't know. I did the whole, you know, drama thing and stuff like that.

you know, kind of, it was like bullshit online. And now I just like don't fear anything like that anymore. It's interesting because even just a year ago when we last talked to you still maintained that you were worried about dying porn at Walmart floor. But now in just one year, that's not really something that you think about too often? Not as much. I think because I hit that safety goal. So it really was achieving the goal because I know a lot of people, they achieve their certain financial goal and then they continue to extend that. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I have stretched goals that I'd like to get to out of competitiveness with myself, of course. but that was my safety goal and I hit it and you don't feel as worried about money now that you've hit that no not at least

everything collapsing no do you worry about everything collapsing well if everything collapsed I'd be fine unless everything collapsed countrywide but then we'd all be fucked

sure that's interesting I've not noticed much of a correlation between me feeling like financially secure and money yeah

it's just I still feel the same but that's probably more of a mental thing where I'm still kind of like looking over expenses. I'm still kind of thinking about like, do I really need that on Amazon? Probably not. I could give you three free therapy sessions if you need. I'm good. I'm good. Talk to a financial therapist, maybe. I'm going to tell you a huge life hack. Yeah. Huge. This will save you all your money and taxes. Marries someone who's a real estate professional. All of a sudden now, real estate losses can be

deducted against your active income. Assuming she's full-time in real estate. So now this year's what this means. Let's just say, I'm just round numbers here. You make a million dollars in a year. Now you're paying taxes on that million dollars at 37%. Let's just call it 300 grand wiped away gone, poof, done forever. But your wife is a real estate professional.

Well, guess what? Now you buy a commercial property with $500,000 down. It's a $2 million property. Now, on that $2 million property, you could do with, called cost segregation analysis where basically they go on and they say hey this uh ceiling has a lifespan of 15 years these floors have a lifespan of seven years here's the value of all of this here's the depreciation schedule and here's what we could take bonus depreciation on so maybe on that two million dollar billing again round numbers you get a million dollars of of active losses as a

write off now all of a sudden you got a million dollar income a million dollars of losses merge the two zero tax whatsoever putting that on the dating profile Yeah. Must be real estate. Now, here's the thing. In fairness, that does lower your cost basis on the real estate. So if you were to sell, that then becomes active income, you're going to have to pay this taxes. Sure.

The goal is that you just keep 1031 exchanging the properties. You keep tax deferring it. And you build a whole nest egg of tax-free income. Then eventually you die. And you could leave, I think as of now, it's $28 million tax-free to your errors. Or you could do a trust. And there's other things that you could do on that. There you go.

No one would complain about $28 million. No. So that's pretty good. That would be crazy. Yeah. Fucking, that'd be a crazy number. This sounds pretty, you know, aggressive, but have you ever considered trying like Ozmpic? Needles.

Not really. Big scared. Big scared guy. What if someone else does it for you? What's the needles? What if you don't look at it? I hear it's like a pen, right? Isn't it like one of those things?

The idea of a needle existing is already making my legs go queasy. Interesting. Okay. It's like, you're like, go, ugh. That's fair. I was just curious about that because I know a lot of people trying it. It's very effective. I've heard not, you know, advice there, but I've heard it works.

Yeah, well, one thing I would be interested in it, it's kind of like debt consolidation, right? So you still need to change the behavior else. It's not going to be sustainable long term. Like, you can debt consolidate, but if you don't change the behavior, you're building those credit cards all the way back up. So, like, I'd be open to it. If you guys ever seen me become skinny, it's probably not because of O-Sempe because I'm a little pussy with needles. No tattoos either? I'd love a bass clef though

Basecliff right here musical bass cleft Yeah for my trombone days You know what I would do is a bass clef on the one side A hammer? A hammer? A hammer? I could not do a hammer. A hammer. A hammer? I could not do a little too much, I think a hammer? No, I'm so egotistical, just like weird. Yeah, yeah What is a criticism that you get a lot that you think is completely invalid? No, you guys brought up the interesting one earlier. What did you guys call it?

not taking advantage. Are you exploiting poor people? That one I think because of just our entire process that people just aren't privy to. It's like I can see the criticism because they're not informed of everything going into it but it just feels merrily. Knowing everything we do in the conversations we have with them,

it feels very endowed. Listen, if we never changed the process from two and a half years ago when I was just in my kitchen in my condo filming the show, like yeah, Okay, that would be different. But if we're putting in the work, we're putting it in the change, and everyone's, we're getting very positive experiences across the board, except for a few misses here and there where we change the process.

Yes, I would agree. But that's just, I don't know, it's just bad takes. Again, everyone's just, one thing that is, it's really interesting online that I think, actually, no, it's, I don't know. You never want to, I've watched podcast now, or influencers or whatever, I guess if that's what we are, are on it. And then they make a complaint. And it's just like, there's no point.

No one can relate to it. It's just so silly. So, I don't know. I'm talking about like, don't you hate it when you have to take your Lamborghini for service? Oh, like I heard a big one was like streaming is harder than a nine to five. Well, that shit's crazy. But I meant more like, like, just thinking about criticisms, you know? Because no one, you can't know what it's like to get that overwhelming sense of mountains of criticism and hate against.

You can't. You do not know what that is like until you're in the position. And I always saw people do that. And I was like, oh, the fuck, dude. You have the coolest thing in the world. And I do have the coolest thing in the world now. And I'm so blessed for that. I do see that I never understood it before.

I understand, ooh, it's overwhelming when the internet's coming after you for a second, you know? Yeah. This is crazy. This is, you can't. People are getting way too comfortable throwing hate out of the people. And people are getting more and more aggressive to the point of it. just being blatant bullying and people bandwagon. Like I see things on Instagram where I saw this really sad video recently of a flight attendant.

It was like a, not an older lady, but, you know, middle-aged or so. And she was working a job just simply mining her own business as a flight attendant. These people walk into the plane and they have this massive dog. And it was captioned, service dogs have gone too far because it was like a Great Dane or something. They're bringing it on the plane. The Great Dane steps on the flight attendant's foot. And she goes, ow, ow. and she's saying have a good day or have a say flight to everybody that comes in.

But the great day and stepped on her foot, she said, ow, in kind of a disturbed tone. And one of the comments was just hate for the flight attendant. And it had an arrow pointing towards the like button. And it had like 100 likes. And I'm thinking to myself, this flight, because she sounded annoyed. Oh. And I'm thinking to myself, this person is sending 100 plus people at least. That was just after it had been closed for a little bit.

at this random lady she didn't agree to be filmed she's doing her job you have no idea what she's going through she's a human just like you she has her own struggle she's in her own world as are you and I'm like it's unreal how comfortable people are

just saying hate for this person like this comment and they're farming engagement for everything's engagement for me now but to do it in the most egregious and unacceptable way for this poor lady who had no idea what was going on she's just doing her own job especially when someone's doing their job you know what I mean I just The thing that honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is making fun of people for whatever job that they have.

Oh, yeah. That's crazy. I don't know. And it just really, it's kind of, you know, riling me up. Yeah, I can tell. But it was pretty upsetting. And I made a very long comment back to it. Oh, good.

And I was like, and then I said, uh, hate for this comment. I didn't say hate to this person in my response, but I just said hate for this comment. Everything's engagement bait now. I mean, this is what you're seeing everywhere. I forgot. The one thing I was trying to say, I got lost in my thoughts. The one thing I was trying to say, The thing that I think I don't like is in the world of online.

It's if they don't like your content, they will just assume the worst about you in every instance. And I think one thing that kind of sucks is I enjoy making people happy, watching the content, being happy. And I want people to like the show. And if people don't like the show, that's okay. That sucks. It's just, I don't know. That's what I struggled with, I think, towards the beginning of this year, end of last year. Maybe when we first met, whereas it's like, people,

just assuming the worst. They get parasycial. They just make all these assumptions. And that sucked. But it's been a good year. Move beyond that. You know, just kind of don't look at that stuff and just out of sight, out of mind. But I guess based on your question, that's the one thing that just kind of annoys me, those two things.

That criticism that you brought up that, yeah, I've seen that a couple times online. I'm like, gosh, you don't know the process. And it says, yeah, people just assume the worst. And it's really weird. It's really weird. And lastly, on quitting YouTube. Because I know you've previously mentioned quite a few times that you've always not been the biggest fan of being like a camera facing personality on YouTube. You're not a huge fan of any sort of fame, even though, you know, I wouldn't consider YouTubers famous, but they're definitely recognizable and famous to some extent.

Sure. You know what I mean? With parosocial relationships and just being recognized. How do you feel about that? Do you still want to quit YouTube? No. I'm very happy now. I'm very happy.

What changed? Based on exactly what we were just talking about. about once I learned how to separate from online and just accept that not everyone's going to like me, not everyone's going to like the show, and that's okay. And that sometimes, you know, people will scream into the void. That's okay. I can be happy. That's what used to get to me. And I was just like, I just want to step away from this and just help manage it. Now I get to meet with people every day, film, put out things, put out episodes that are literally changing tens of thousands of people's lives and getting positive results and also entertaining people, getting people through the workday. The fact that we get to do

that and people actually show up and watch three days a week is the most insane blessing in the world and I couldn't see doing anything else. I love this to my core. Did you stop reading comments somewhere in there or did you just divorce however you're doing on a daily basis with whatever people are saying about you online? I think I had a lot of fear back then of people not liking me or people saying things that weren't true and that fears has gone away as I went to therapy, talked about it, it with it through a therapist. And also, yeah, I just stopped going on some more outrage driven places online where it's, you know, engagement, you know, you get your karma, you get your like, you get your whatever based on, you know, outrage engagement. I just stopped looking at it and there's really no need to.

All right. Well, I think that is it. Caleb, thank you for being so generous either time. Thank you, team. Caleb's got his whole team. They're all helping out with this. I'm hungry. Well, yeah, we're going to link to your channel down below in the description. Obviously, if you've never seen, Caleb Hammer before the channel is down below thank you so much for letting us use your studio your equipment letting us film here the Diet Coke for the coffee don't forget the thank you for the Nidos these are so neat I want you to sell these two that's the other things are sponsor us Nito Caleb it's always a pleasure yeah I love you guys for watching until next time