The Iced Coffee Hour - Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

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Starting point is 00:00:32 This industry is my life, and I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape, or form. It's never been at a worst place than it is today. The attitude, the arrogance. The retail side of this industry is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary. Your customer should be number one. The customer is the reason of your company, not the other way around. So is the wait list real?

Starting point is 00:00:56 No, absolutely not. The watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a one. watch. Rolex is not scarce, but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. The mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bullshit toward to sell their product. What do they lie about? Just to be very clear, it's not that I am looking for enemies, but this industry would collapse if I would tell you the truth. Nico, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. Thank you for having me. We've been talking about this for a good amount of time.

Starting point is 00:01:35 and I'm honored that I'm here. I've been looking forward to this a lot, and I want to start by getting your reaction to this tweet that got 30 million views not too long ago. It says, if you're a guy in your early 20s, buy a Rolex. Go into debt if you have to. This is not satire.

Starting point is 00:01:54 You can get a Rolex for $4,000. Having a nice watch communicates status to women and business relationships. And if you buy it right, it will hold its value, if not appreciate. I think that's the biggest load of bullocks I've heard in a very long time. I do agree that watch show status, but if you need that status to do business,

Starting point is 00:02:16 I think you're overstepping the market. I think you need to enable for you to do business. You need to have different talents first. But don't you think for four grand, it's pretty cheap to get in some of these circles? Yeah, but if you go in debt for four grand, I think you have other problems, to be honest. So I think you need to solve that first.

Starting point is 00:02:35 If foreground gets you into debt, priorities first. So everyone knows you as reacting to celebrity watch collections, calling out fake watches, all of this. I love those videos. I'm curious, how many watches have you currently bought, sold? What's your collection like today? I don't know the exact number of my personal collection, but I am pretty sure it's significantly over 200.

Starting point is 00:02:59 I don't think I crossed the line of 300 watches today. but like the amount of watches I have sold personally or one of my companies is is is a lot what's the value of that we turn over about say 35 million a year so five years yes it's quite all right and what's a good number what's the most expensive watch that you own i would say 1.8 million dollars yeah what is it it's a piscenique it's a watch made by aldermarpie k and it's a prototype to an actual really important model. A watch that was never supposed to be sold. How do you get that?

Starting point is 00:03:41 I knew about the existence of that watch for many years. But I never really had the money to acquire that. It was quite early in my career. And the gentleman that had this watch didn't really want to sell it. And at some point, he did approach me and say, I'm ready to sell. And then I needed to go in debt to get that one. watch to get my hands. And how does he get that watch to begin with?

Starting point is 00:04:06 I think he had a, he might have worked at AP. And so what is a piece unique for people who are not familiar? So a piece unique is a, is a watch. There's only one off. But like, you have variations. Kevin O'Leary has a piece unique on a watch, which is different color stones on a vessel. You can call that a piece unique for sure.

Starting point is 00:04:24 What I'm talking about is this is the actual prototype to a watch, the line of watches that was created. So this was the first, the one. that was trade and tested. It is also a watch without a crown that they've been only really done in 1997. So it was really, really special. So a piece unique is a watch.

Starting point is 00:04:47 There's one-off, a unique piece. How is it worth $1.8 million? How much did you pay for it? And what do the finances look like in acquiring a watch like that? Yeah, do you just send a wire? It's like, here's $1.8 million. Yeah, yeah, that was just a wire.

Starting point is 00:05:01 Yeah, yeah. Because I knew the owner, a nudity collector for some years. And that's just based on trust. And this was in the middle of COVID. And I actually had to cross the border illegally a good few times. This was crazy. But I bought it in the end in Romania. So that's where the watch was.

Starting point is 00:05:19 How is it worth $1.8 million? It's worth as much as I'm saying. But the last offer I got was $1.8 million. How much did you pay for it? 300,000 sterling. 300,000? How did he let it go for 300? Well, I mean, that was at that point the value.

Starting point is 00:05:38 This is prior to absolute hype. This is, this, at 300 was a lot of money like. How did you know that watch was going to be worth so much more in the future? Because that's a watch that money can't buy. Like, I mean, you can have all the money in the world. I'm the only one that owns that watch. I can set the price. And I can say the value is more, but the last offer I got, which I declined.

Starting point is 00:06:01 was 1.8. What offer would you accept for that watch? I can't say it out because then all of a sudden I changed the value of the watch and maybe someone comes in. But if you said 20 million dollars, yeah, maybe that would be, I would, I would accept 20 million. Like, every day and the week. There we have it. Keep it. Like, that's not the point. The point is that I love watches that money can't buy. I mean, it's easy, like, you see someone wearing a, I'm wearing my own watch. Two-tones of Mariner. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people that have that. That's a amazing, right? But that has a certain value on average because there's so many on the market. I have a watch. It's the only one. I define the price. And that's what it is. How often do you wear it?

Starting point is 00:06:44 And I bought it. I was quite skinny. I was able to wear it and I enjoyed it. Not in very dangerous places. Europe is not very safer wearing a watch with that magnitude, right? But then I became a wee bit heavier. Basically, I became really fat. And for that watch, there's no extra links. It's not like I can call AAP and say, give me some extra links. So that was a problem. So I couldn't wear it for years. And now I can.

Starting point is 00:07:09 I can't wear it. So when's last time you wore it? Three weeks ago? What was the occasion? Seen a very good friend of mine. That is not well. So I was just like, yeah, it's good. I like to attach memories to watch it.

Starting point is 00:07:26 Yeah. So in terms of watches themselves, who should buy a watch? I think everyone should buy a watch. I think that's massively important. I think a mechanical watch, I think we need to define that or make a quite a difference in mechanical watch and an Apple watch, for example. I think we really need to split that.

Starting point is 00:07:44 The Apple watch is great for the industry, honestly, great, right? Because it created a lot of wrists. People are wearing watches today that wouldn't have wore watches before. We're getting used to things on our wrist, right? So that's amazing. But I think a mechanical watch is for a man, the only real legitimate jewelry. It's important.

Starting point is 00:08:02 Like I've kids, I bought my son a watch when he was born, and I wear that watch on every single one of his birthdays. And so 17 times, he's three now. So I wore it twice. And when he's 18, he gets to watch with a photo of me wearing that watch on every single one of his birthday. You see, you can't do that with anything else. And I think it shows that you're, like, don't get me wrong.

Starting point is 00:08:25 You can buy a watch at 10 grand, but you can buy a watch at 200 quid. It's fine. But I think it's just important that you show that you take care of things. Do you think it's important and style? What does a watch mean beyond keeping time? Well, that's for every person different, of course. Like, for me, it's an accolade. It's a reminder.

Starting point is 00:08:50 I don't really use a watch to tell the time. It's just a reminder for me of events, moments, a story, attachment. I'm quite sentimental in that part. But for other people, it's to flex. It's just show I have money, like what happened there with a tweet. I think it's absolutely rubbish. I think everyone at some point in their life should be able, should, well, shoot is different. I would love everyone to have the possibility to spend that money on a watch because I think

Starting point is 00:09:18 you deserve that, everyone deserves that, and it makes you feel better. It's like buy nice clothes, it's exactly the same. What do you think are some of the benefits today though of owning a really nice watch. It gives you an idea, right? I always see this. If I see someone wearing an Omega Speedmaster, right? I always, I like to speak with that person. Not because the Speedmaster is expensive, but because I always make a joke. There's a secret club between Speedmaster owners, which is when you have the hands set at 30, you're a part of a secret club. That's a connection. Like, if I see someone wearing a nice watch, I'm like, really cool, I want to hear the story. Why did you choose that?

Starting point is 00:09:53 It's a connection between people. There's not many things. Like, if someone wears a nice blouse, or a shirt or like you walk up to a bloke and say, I love your shirt. No, but you do that when someone wears a nice watch. And that's acceptable. And that's exactly, it's connecting.

Starting point is 00:10:11 I think that that's one of the most important reason. I've noticed that too with a lot of the people that we speak to, all you have to do is compliment them on their watch. As long as it's not something like too flashy or too like generic. There was a dude that I was playing blackjack with recently. You're a gambler. I love it. Occasionally.

Starting point is 00:10:30 But he was wearing this vintage Daytona, and it must have been from like the 60s. Yeah. And it was on a leather strap, and it was gorgeous. But I complimented him on this watch. And he, like his eyes lit up because it looked like just an ordinary watch,

Starting point is 00:10:45 but I saw this vintage Daytona. And he was so excited that someone noticed the watch. And sometimes there's little compliments or those little inns with somebody where they just appreciate that. Well, the thing is when you wear a vintage Daytona, you actually think about a watch. You're in this industry. You're not financially or maybe work, but you really care.

Starting point is 00:11:05 You care about history. Well, I would say if you wear a vintage Daytona shows, you're very sophisticated. That person would always be very open to have that conversation. So what watch tells you that they have zero taste? Well, if you wear a hooplau, you have absolute zero taste. Or Jacob and Coe. I think Jacob and Coe is absolutely hugely embarrassing, to be honest. I think that that is

Starting point is 00:11:26 it's funny how like this industry is full with lies and marketing it is actually scary right the retail side of this industry is the biggest lie you've ever seen like this industry would collapse if if I would tell you the truth

Starting point is 00:11:45 like it would collapse we're going to talk about that shortly I'm curious that before we talk about that why do you hate Hooplo so much well it's got nothing to do with aesthetics right That's just the taste, but it's about the, just cutting corners, man. Just a generic movement that sits in Hamilton,

Starting point is 00:12:01 a sell up for 20x. Why would you buy it? Like, that's not luxury. Like, I am genuinely, what a watch says about you is, well, I don't really, I'm not in the position where I really care about what people think of me anymore. I've got enough stuff all over me,

Starting point is 00:12:20 and I've given enough people to be honest, well, that was the beginning of my career. And I'm different now. I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm just like done, right? After so many years being, doing that. So I don't care. I can wear whatever.

Starting point is 00:12:35 I can wear my own watch. You can wear a Rolex. I can wear a million dollar watch. Or it can wear a tech hoyer. I don't care. It's a watch that I want to wear at that moment and time. But a hoop blow is just a statement of, I don't really care.

Starting point is 00:12:46 I'm just lazy. I just watched in Boppe playing promoting this. So I might just have 20 grand to spend. I'll just spend it on that. That shows that someone doesn't really care. And what about Jacob and Co? Well, that you're very, they're too much on Instagram. That's what it shows.

Starting point is 00:13:01 You're too much on social and very much influential or very, very easy to influence via socials. Are they worth the price? Not even remotely close. What do you think they're worth? Because I've seen, I've seen the one where you click it and it has like the roulette thing. The casino, yeah. I'll get that produced for less than two and a half K. Simple.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Like, that's how easy it is. Like, less than two and a half K. You pay a wee bit for the gold. Like, don't get me wrong. Like Jacob, Jacob is a good designer, to be honest, but like, he's not a watchmaker. The watches are not made by Jacob & Co. It's a company that's called Concepto in Switzerland that makes that. And they do that for different brands.

Starting point is 00:13:36 But, like, I mean, it's not worth anything remotely near. What do they sell it for? Like, to give you an idea, it's 80% off, like 50% percent. Like, I will challenge you. Anyone that watches this that is in a social space knows they bought the Jacob and Co. because they got 50% off from Jacob to make them feel special. But he does that with everyone. So how special are you?

Starting point is 00:14:00 It's just a journey, man. You said that the entire watch industry would collapse if you said the truth. Yeah, if the watch industry was actually honest, which they aren't, this industry would collapse. What do they lie about? I mean, look at IWC. I mean, just to be very clear, it's a complete identity crisis. I would say that it's all about selling watches. It's all about, listen, I'm not mad about about economy of scale.

Starting point is 00:14:30 You need to sell watches, the business, all good. But doors to sell a watch, like IWC this year came out with some astronaut watch. IWC is known for making formal watches and Portuguese, absolutely class, Portafino, amazing. But all of a sudden they want to make the most complicated to really honest. That's not you. That's not them. Like IWC is absolutely lost identity crisis. Worse than MJ or Michael Jackson at his prime, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:14:59 But the watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch, right? And that's a problem. As well as that. The journey of buying a Rolex, I mean, that's quite controversial, to be honest. What do you think about it? Well, what do you think? I hate it. So what really upset me was that I walked in to a Rolex boutique and I was wearing a 19018

Starting point is 00:15:30 oyster quartz. And I thought for sure some sales associate would at least mention it. It's such a unique watch. And I go in there and the lady's just on her phone. She could not give a shit that I was there. And I just said, hey, do you have a land dweller? I just want to be able to look at it. I'm not going and asking for a Daytona.

Starting point is 00:15:49 I'm not asking for an allocation. I just want to look at it. No. We don't have it. And then she was on her phone the entire time. Never asked any questions. She couldn't care. And I left.

Starting point is 00:16:01 And that turned me off so much. All she had to do is say, oh, where are you from? Oh, you're a local. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's an oyster. I was so fed up with it that I left. But yeah, I do think that's more an American thing because, like, the Rolex is one problem, right?

Starting point is 00:16:17 They have only one, only really one boutique themselves. that's in Geneva. They actually care. They're incredibly passionate people. What you're talking to is someone that actually don't care. It's a normal job for them. If they're sales associated at the Rolex or a sales associate at some tire place or used tire plays, I don't know what you have here in the US. That's more an American US type of thing. They just don't care. They don't know what you're wearing. They have no idea. And I noticed that in Vegas, to be honest, I think the worst of the worst I've seen in Vegas. I wanted to, this is five, six years. years ago and wanted to buy a specific Daytona and I mean the woman was on her phone I have photos

Starting point is 00:16:55 of that I have photos of that I'm like and I lost the plot at that day like you're an embarrassment for a brand you're representing the brand and that's a wee bit of a problem with Rolex because they don't control what an authorized dealer does or doesn't do and and they just don't care yeah I didn't like it either I went into a different boutique and it was display only and then they said oh but we have these pre-owned watches instead yeah I'm looking at the pre-owned watches. And then I pull up on Chrono 24. I probably shouldn't have done this. And I said, well, here's the same watch. But this is 20% cheaper with box and papers. And I could buy. Why would I pay 20%? Oh, well, because you get it now and it comes with the Rolex gear. I don't care for 20% last. I go on 24, get a top trusted seller. I hate it. It ruined the entire experience for it. Like this point, like this thing, which you're mentioned, right? I think you're looking at a different way, right? You think that the watch. are the luxury aspect, but it's actually the journey. Let me explain.

Starting point is 00:17:55 Rolex is not scarce. Like, it's not rare at all. Like, Rolex makes in, I would say, three weeks, what Petect makes in one year. Like, Rolex is not scarce. But yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world, right? So it's funny. The whole thing is, they make you feel

Starting point is 00:18:19 it's actually a privilege for you to buy a Rolex to make you feel it's a privilege. So privilege in that part becomes a luxury, right? So you need to be grateful that you're considered being able to buy a Rolex. So you're waiting there, you're sitting there. Privilege is a luxury in this part, right? Okay, you get the phone call finally. You can pick it up, champagne, oh, I've been considered. That's amazing, that journey, endorphins going.

Starting point is 00:18:48 you get a phone call, you can pick up your watch. More celebrations, more good Instagram photos. Ah, look, I got my new Raleigh by my course, whatever, right? Then you have the watch, then you own the watch, then you wear the watch. It's like, oh, what's next? I want another one. Like that journey is the product. That cycle is the product, not the watch, not the product.

Starting point is 00:19:12 That journey is the luxury. So is the wait list real? No, absolutely not. How do you move up on the wait list that's not real? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So Graham and I just wrapped up a trip. We were in Austin for a few days. We filmed episodes with Togi, Chris Camillo, and Caleb Hammer.

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Starting point is 00:20:29 If you're thinking about hosting but want some help getting started, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. How do you move up on the wait list that's not real? Well, let me put it this way. If you have a buddy at Rolex or at a Rolex authorized dealer, because we need to separate them. Rolex only has one shop. That's in Geneva. Rolex recently, well, in recent years, acquired Booker. Incredible, I must say the team, very passionate young people that actually care,

Starting point is 00:20:57 they actually care about the brand and the product, right? That's only in Geneva, but that's where, what I have seen. You just need to suck it up. If you want the Rolex, you need to suck it up. And if that is not what you want to do, which I think you shouldn't be doing, and just buy a watch whenever you have the money and buy it on the gray market. And I would argue to say that the gray market is the truth of the industry.

Starting point is 00:21:23 Like retail is just a bloody lie. But in terms of getting the allocation that you want, is there any trick? Is there any way to do that? Because I've seen these people on the forums that they're like, I go in every single week and when they give you an allocation, you have to take it.

Starting point is 00:21:36 And then you have to keep visiting them. And I text my AD all the time and I become friends. I've even heard of them inviting their AD out for dinners and bringing them on to like, you know, family experiences and all this to get close with them and then they get, you know, the allocation, they keep buying it. Is that the way to do it?

Starting point is 00:21:55 Do you see what you say there yourself? That whole journey is the luxury aspect. It's all been a lot. Like Rolex is key in that. Like Rolex is the king in that. That whole journey of being, going out for dinner, doing this, taking this person out, going in again, buying another.

Starting point is 00:22:14 That's the luxury aspect. Humans want, but they cannot have. So they do whatever it takes. That's the privilege. That's the luxury aspect of it. What you're describing here, that journey is the true form of the luxury aspect of Rolex. And that's what they tried to sell. So no, you cannot avoid that unless your body owns the retail boutique,

Starting point is 00:22:39 which, or you say, you just make a deal. I'll buy this watch. You'd just be straight up. I was in, I was quite straight up. I'll buy this watch for 400,000 Swiss franc. I'll buy it out. But I want this watch and this watch within nine and two months. Can you make that happen?

Starting point is 00:22:56 Yes. They have the Daytonas in the back. They do. So I've been told sometimes they only get like a few Daytonas a year. That's a lot of bollocks. That's a lie. It's a lot of bollocks. It's an absolute lie.

Starting point is 00:23:07 It's the journey. And they want to keep you. on that journey. And this is why I say, like, if I tell you the real truth of how this industry goes, like IWC has tried exactly this. They understood that the cycle of you purchasing a watch, the cycle of the journey was actually the one that sold the watches, not the watches, not the product itself. It was the journey, right? So IWC introduces the engineer and they do exactly the same as Rolex, but it's IWC. It's embarrassing. They tried it. Yeah. Vasheron-Constantine, overseas.

Starting point is 00:23:41 Nobody blinked an eyelid to it, right? All of a sudden, this IWC, of this, this overseas, oh, best thing in the world, allocation only. All of a sudden people started, oh, shit, I can't get it. So I want it. The 2-2-2 launch, embarrassing, very poorly executed. They have the watches.

Starting point is 00:23:59 The production is easy, but it's the journey that they tried to sell to make you, well, make you part of that. Did you see the YouTube video where this guy goes in a Rolex boutique? I think this is in London. and asks for a Hulk. And they say, sorry, we don't have one.

Starting point is 00:24:15 You can get on the wait list. He's like, oh, I'm okay. He gets a fake Johnny Depp, gets him in full, you know, costume as a celebrity, calls Rolex ahead of him, hey, we got a celebrity coming in, gets fake paparazzi. Johnny Depp walks in. They walk him straight to the back, and he gets that exact watch. Yeah. That's why I told you.

Starting point is 00:24:35 Like, they have the watches. But the journey is, for you, as a normal bloke, right? The journey is that's the luxury. That's the actual product. That's why you want the watch because you can't get it. So then which watch when worn tells you immediately that that person has class? If you wear a vintage watcher that tells me several things about you, you care about your family or it's a family heirloon, right?

Starting point is 00:24:57 And it's funny. I was with, I'm here for the WWE. My first wrestling experience. I'm quite close with Joe, Roman Raines. one of his agents or people, business people that are around them, was wearing a Oistur perpetual funny enough. And I noticed that. I was like, it could either mean two things, right?

Starting point is 00:25:16 You just bought your first Rolex and didn't want to spend a certain mind, but I, you look very flat or you look quite well dressed and stuff. So I don't think that that's the case. Or it is something you inherited. He's like, yeah, it was my dad. And I'm like, I'll blow your mind now, right? Have you ever polished this watch or clean this watch? It's like, no.

Starting point is 00:25:34 Well, give me your watch. Now open the clasp and I'm. moved the bracelet from the clasp was like, see that, it's dead skin, it's your dad's. And he was like, what?

Starting point is 00:25:44 And I'm like, it tells me a lot about a person, right? He was mind blown, right? Like, if you check your Rolex, right, open it up,

Starting point is 00:25:53 your clasp, you'll see, you'll find the dead skinny. Oh gosh. Do you know who's watched this is? I have no idea. Who is it? Take a look on the back.

Starting point is 00:26:01 Take a look on the back. Oh my God. Yeah. Was it so bad they had to sell it or do you give it to you? He gave it to you. He gave it to me. That's cool. That's cool.

Starting point is 00:26:09 I always really liked him. He gave it to Jack on the podcast. Yeah? So you're saying there's a bit of Liver King's skin on this watch. Yes. Smell it. Well, you see this. That's all dead skin.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Black stuff. Look at it. Wow. Oh, my gosh. That's funny, isn't that? Take it. Does this appear to be real to you? Because a lot of people say a lot of what Liver King does is fake is the watch that he gave me.

Starting point is 00:26:34 No, that feels right. To be honest. Yeah, it feels right. Solid. Like the sound of a bracelet, you can't replicate that. Like gold, you can't really fake. Well, it'll tell you a funny story. Back in the day, Cartier was so bad at making watches.

Starting point is 00:26:47 It's actually scary that people were just like, they were popular, but they were just so bad. Their movements were like the worst to the worst. So people did, they made fake Cartier's from real gold. And I just put a better movement in that. I was sold it. Like, genuinely, that was fake watchers. Like, you see a lot of Nautilus is today, like a lot.

Starting point is 00:27:10 I'm talking a lot. I'll probably, that's probably, if I have a WhatsApp chat, I can show you, offer today, like a proper Nautilus for like 20 grand. Like, you think it's proper Nautilus, but the case embraces all aftermarket. It's funny. And it's all real goal. Like, I mean, that's not, that's different, but the sound that a link makes, this is rolling.

Starting point is 00:27:31 Speaking of Celebrity Watches like this, what celebrity has the best watch collection? I love that question. I love that. Well, I would rate a watch collection, sorry. I would rate a watch collection a wee bit different than anyone else, right? Like I said, I like to look at watches that money can't buy. You can have a gazillion dollars on your bank, spent $50 million on watches, but it can all be an AP and I can buy every single one of them if I want to on the market.

Starting point is 00:27:59 All I need is money. I don't need effort. I just need money. Right, that's it. Of course I could talk. Kevin Hart, I can talk about Mark Wahlberg. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:08 Amazing collections. But do they actually think about watches or do they just buy whatever what they want? Mark is always the first one with the newest Rolex. Yeah. And Kevin is always the first one with the new IP. Is that really, like, is that someone that really makes an effort, like, thinks about it? That's what I love. True passion.

Starting point is 00:28:29 Intention. Yeah. What about John Mayer? John is an incredible watch collector. I speak with him. regularly about certain pieces. He has stuff that the world has never seen. Some really,

Starting point is 00:28:42 really insane stuff. Like double signed, but not by Tiffany. I can't tell you what it is. But we're talking, I can't. But like double sign means a retailer that once upon a time sold a Rolex

Starting point is 00:28:59 with their name on it. And it's absolutely gigantic. It is very, John is very red into this. John, this is John's life. I am absolutely gutted that he done that collaboration with AP because that didn't help his status. He didn't have to do that.

Starting point is 00:29:19 I understand he's passionate. He loves watches and Francois Ben-in-ois, which I think is the best leader in the last two decades in the watch industry. I understand it. AP comes. You want to do a watch together, bring it to the world. your that really like the John Mayer connection with watches was so authentic like we called the green Daytona John Mayor it was authentic it wasn't a marketing ploy it wasn't designed by some

Starting point is 00:29:51 marketing agency to sell that Daytona no he made a video with Ben Clymer about that watch or about his collection he named that watch and that watch was sold out ever since authentic. No marketing ploy. AP, watch with AP, marketing ploy, bomb. I think if he looks back to that, I'm pretty sure that

Starting point is 00:30:17 he would have loved to do that differently, looking back. What do you think he should have done differently? To stay away from that. Just be in advice. Don't touch your name to anything. Let it run. Let it authentically run.

Starting point is 00:30:29 I think that that's the key. Because, I mean, we're living in a world where everything is fake. We need a wee bit of authenticity in our life. Speaking of authenticity, what is the best watch to get the attention of ladies? I love it. I don't think there's any watch or an iced out watch.

Starting point is 00:30:47 It's very funny. I was wearing, I was in Texas, Frisco. I love Frisco. I want to buy a house in Frisco on Texas. I think it's brilliant. And I was wearing my white gold day date, Pave, Dow, full, diamond set, bezel. And the ladies did notice.

Starting point is 00:31:03 that. Oh, that's, what is that? That's funny. So that noticed, but I have never been able to pull a women and with a watch, to be honest. What about just in general? Yeah, I feel like a cardier, like a good men's tank would do well for it's not too flashy, but you know what? It shows class. It shows some sophistication. Not a single woman will know what you wear if you wear a cachet. It is a bloke that will know. So all you're attracting is bloke. But you don't think they see Cartier and they're like, oh, I like. No, they see a watch. Oh, it's cool. All right, move on. Women absolutely do not care about watches. So you're saying that you've transacted, I mean, in the nine figures, over $100 million

Starting point is 00:31:45 worth of watches, you have never had a girl come up to you aside from that one experience to compliment your watch. No, it's always a bloke. It's always been a bloke. And today, twice, with my watch, twice, the driver that dropped us off, a cool watch, and at the hotel. So that's really interesting. So women typically are not interested whatsoever in watch. Maybe maybe it's me that I kind of well, that women are not very much attracted to me.

Starting point is 00:32:09 It could be a one as well, but I have never been able to, uh, back in the day, neither with cars, to be honest. So if some dude is dating, you would not recommend buy this watch. No, absolutely not. No. No. Would you recommend a car? No, I would recommend not to wear an Apple watch. That's a toy.

Starting point is 00:32:26 Come on. Like, I mean, it's good. It's whatever. Don't wear an Apple watch, like rare nothing or wear something, whatever you feel like. So how would a man attract a woman in general? I mean, be confident. Like you don't, like, to be fair, like if I put a watch on a specific watch, I wear a specific novelist or an RM or something really like specific, silent luxury or extreme in your face, it gives me a confidence boost.

Starting point is 00:32:51 Like, I'm not going to lie. You would say him as dressing nice, you want to dress nice, nice, nice shoes, you want to feel nice. You wear a nice suit, right? Just that makes you confidence. Same with a watch. Running a small business like the iced coffee hour is just absolutely amazing, but let me level with you for a second. The back end stuff is just so brutal.

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Starting point is 00:34:44 down below in the description. Enjoy and now let's get back to the podcast. Here's a list of celebrities. Tell us what you think of their watches. Yeah. Minute repeater. Unbelievable. Split second. chronograph, perpetual calendar. Holy ph-skeleton-ice. How much is that watch worth? People have no idea. A split-second chronograph is one of the most complicated movements ever.

Starting point is 00:35:04 Like, this is not a watch you buy. This is not, like, you need to know what you're doing here, right? This is absolutely nuts. This is one of the most complicated watches that AP has ever produced. It's insane. But he's not wearing that watch on that photo because he's wearing a aftermarket 15407. Good catch.

Starting point is 00:35:21 All right. There you go. Kevin Hart. Platinum Daytona, unbelievable important watch, by the way. Advanced research Aquana, interesting story about that. Advanced research is a specific department, it's a special department specialized in innovations within Patek-Philippe. And in this case, it's about the usage of silicone in the movement.

Starting point is 00:35:42 Give you an idea, metal-to-metal in a movement, scrapes. Silicon to silicone doesn't scrape. What happens to a watch when it constantly scrapes? It needs to be serviced quite regularly. And silicone is used, it doesn't really scrape. So it doesn't really need to have be serviced every time. So it increases the surface intervals like years. So that's amazing, fantastic, really important watch.

Starting point is 00:36:06 And of course, the troublion, which is class Royal Oak. Listen, this is one of those, right? I can buy every single one of these pieces tomorrow if I want to. So here's another one that I guess money just can buy in terms of a collection. But what do you think? Is this a rounded collection, do you think? So I'm seeing the white gold 15407 BC, which is white gold frosted. I see the 5990. Rose, very special watch. So I see Nautilus. I see AP.

Starting point is 00:36:35 I see the same designer. Gerald Jenta designed both. He's responsible for both. I see the Royal Oak offshore. Again, a Daytona, really important. Yellow gold sub-manor, class, day date. I have that exact one here, different dial configuration, meteorite, the Gibbean. meteorite

Starting point is 00:36:50 De Deid. Gibbon is a stone and meteorite that landed in Namibia in Africa. And Rolex harvested as harvest throughout the years.

Starting point is 00:36:59 You can't, last 10 years, you can't touch that stone anymore. But they've harvested that 20 years ago and they used that now in Dow configurations.

Starting point is 00:37:07 And a really cool yellow gold Daytona. I believe that there is, like the Nautilus was a hype piece. Like these are all hype watches. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:15 Like Nautilus, Royal Oak. Day Day day wasn't a hype watch, but Daytona was for sure. Yeah. I think it's a really rounded collection. But again, how much thought, but maybe he doesn't care about it too much.

Starting point is 00:37:26 He just likes, he just wants to buy. And that's fine too. He just wants to buy what he likes. Change it up a little bit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know the bloke on the left. That must have been gifted. Like, Hubello doesn't sell any watches like this.

Starting point is 00:37:39 No, that's 100% gifted. They just give him the watch to wear. 100%. He gets photos of it. It gets publicity. It's their marketing expense. Yeah. And then DJ Kahn.

Starting point is 00:37:50 Khalid, well, he's a wee bit bigger here. So this must have been a couple of years ago, knowing him is probably aftermarket. And yeah, that's quite sad. But he now, as a really serious collection full with pieces, that money can buy, I would love, this is what I do. This is my work. And people have no idea.

Starting point is 00:38:12 I actually manage about a billion dollars of watches, collections. That's what I do. That's my work, right? People ask me, what is your work? I manage watch collections. And I always look at the, like look at watches that money can't buy. So that's what I for, that's why, that's why I travel all over the world. So yesterday we were supposed to film this.

Starting point is 00:38:32 I had to jump on a jet to get somewhere to pick up a watch that money cannot buy. Secured off our client. For a client. Yeah. Wow. These celebrities, like you love watches. You love watches to a certain degree. I'm just excessively obsessed.

Starting point is 00:38:51 That's what it is. So I look at small details. I look at things like that. These guys have other careers. They're busy with other stuff. And DJ Khalid plays golf. I love golf. So they don't want to go into that journey.

Starting point is 00:39:07 But you see people maturing. Throughout the years, I've seen DJ Khalid maturing massively. Of course, I have absolutely ripped every celebrity apart, including DJ Khalid and they must hate me for the rest of their life. Have you ever been wrong when you've called someone out?

Starting point is 00:39:23 When I call someone out, my reputation is everything. I'm not wrong. I don't call someone out because it's a coincidence. I call someone out because I know exactly every internet I.

Starting point is 00:39:33 You manage $1 billion worth of watches. Explain to me the business behind that. Well, it's quite of a new thing in the watch industry, to be honest. That watches are seen as a luxury asset class. Like, it's normal in the art, art sector. Like, you have people managing art collections worth gazillions,

Starting point is 00:39:54 like car collections even, but watches and cars are actually really close to each other. Funny bit is, I manage everything from acquisition to consolidation or to consolidate collections to, like proper selling of pieces. Give you an idea, if you have 250 watches, you are in a certain value bracket, right?

Starting point is 00:40:16 you're worth something. Spented a lot of money on 250 watches. You don't want to worry about service in every single watch. And every single watch is a different service interval. Same as every single car needs to be, well, needs to be in a trickle charger. It needs to be managed. Usually when you have a collection of that magnitude,

Starting point is 00:40:35 you also have different houses you live across the world. Where are your watches? You want to keep track of that. So a real important part to understand is that you need someone to properly manage that depending what what a collector's goal is of course right every collector is a different goal one collector just wants to collect every single watch ever created from this brand and you have another collector that that that wants to see a growth of his of his investments and he says i'm spending 25 to 50 million 20 25 is well that would be the absolute bare minimum

Starting point is 00:41:12 uh to be honest but he wants to spend 25 million on on a watch collection. It's not that I buy 25 million worth of watches. No, no, no. Like, I help him, we find them, we work together, we, we tailored that to what he actually wants to achieve. And it's all different. And it's funny, I'm going to say something crazy. One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman. And yeah, it's insane. I can't tell you who it is. What is she worth? I can't tell him. So when you're working with these clients and they're wearing these watches. I imagine some of your clients have watches that are four or five million dollars. Have you ever had a client lose a watch? Yeah. Yeah. And my task is in as well to find out.

Starting point is 00:41:57 How expensive was the watch they lost? Two and a half million. How do they lose two and a half million dollars? You see it as two and a half million dollars, but when you have just a wrist watch or watch on your wrist, it's just a watch. And the funny bit is like it can happen very quickly. In Vegas, you hear it all the time. You get drugged. You brought to a room and they walk away with the watch. Like, you hear that all the time. Yesterday, I heard that from someone. Wait, what happened yesterday?

Starting point is 00:42:24 So someone goes in a casino, goes drinking, is alone, a bloke, whatever, and just, I mean, meets a girl, girl, I was very interested and brings him up to the room. And he gets drugged, and his watches are gone, one of which I didn't, I don't think it was a watch, but it was wallet stolen. Like, I mean, it's what happened. And then how do you trace it down?

Starting point is 00:42:45 A Rolex is difficult to trace down. But specific watches, well, I can show you a photo of a George Daniels, right? I know that George Daniels only produced, he only, George Daniels is the most important watchmaker in the world, hands down, right? Without George Daniels, the watch world would have looked completely different. He only touched, we only produced like 37 watches in his entire life. And he's known as the, he's the man responsible for the coexual escapement, the Omega Bot. And he only touched 37 watches himself, right?

Starting point is 00:43:20 24 of which were wrist watches. So it's easy to find. It's easy to find because someone that steals that is going to have to sell it. That person giggles and sees, oh, that's a lot of money. Yeah, it's a lot of money. So they want to sell that. That will always come on the market. And something that is so niche, so rare, yeah, that's easy to find.

Starting point is 00:43:43 Did you end up finding it? that watch. It wasn't a George Daniels, by the way, I got stolen, but yes, I did. So your client lost a $2.5 million watch, and you went out and found it. Yeah, I did. How did you find? We don't have possession of that watch yet, because it's still in police custody now. Who loses money in that deal if you find the watch?

Starting point is 00:43:59 Like, does the owner just automatically just get it back? No. Or like, what if it gets sold and someone's like, buys it for $100,000? And then they own the watch, they genuinely didn't know it was stolen. And then someone says, oh, that's my watch. Do they just have to get it back? And then the person who spent the money is just, I'm not a legal expert, so I don't know how that goes.

Starting point is 00:44:18 In this case, the court case is, well, this guy is going to go to jail and the court case. And whenever that's finished, I think the asset is going to be released. But at least the asset now, the watch now is in possession of the police safely. So until that is, the court case is going and that could be a year, two years, maybe. I don't know. But as soon as that is released, that watch is going to go back to its original. So do you just take a percent or so of the billion dollars worth of watches that you manage? Well, no, it doesn't work like that. In acquisition or consolidation, I take 15% on

Starting point is 00:44:49 both sides, sell and so and purchase. But it's like, it sounds like this, the funny bit is, we talk about this as this is like something mad, but you know what the funny bit is. This is, this has been going on for decades in the world of art. I don't think it sounds insane. Yeah. It's been going on for decades in the automotive space. Like, for watches, it's maybe a be relatively new, but like if you have, say you have 200 watches, 300 watches, right? Like you need to think about how you store those. Like those watches need to be serviced and every watch is a different service interval. That needs to be managed. That's also you want to know what the value is today. You also want to know and make sure that that value maintains. If that is your

Starting point is 00:45:37 goal with collecting and that is really important. So that is one of the goals. That's what we set out. I mean, it's relatively new in a public space for watches, but like, it's been going on for a good few years. I would be personally one of, probably one of the biggest ones that manages that. So if I'm just doing back of the napkin math, you said it's 15% of a billion dollars. No, it's not. No, that's only acquisition. So that's only acquisition in and out. So meaning I, my, my margin is, well, 15% of acquisition and 15% of selling.

Starting point is 00:46:10 So I take 15% of both sides from the buyer and the side. seller. It's not 15% of a billion dollar that I managed. The combined collection is 15 million, but it's very often, like, I didn't sell those billion dollar of watches. I didn't. The majority of, well, 90%, 95% of those watches have already been acquired. But the deal is simple. Any watch that's being added or any watch that's being moved from that moment that we're saying is 15% in and out. So if they end up selling at some point in the future, then you would retain 15% of the sale price. I like to think that that is really, that's incredible maths.

Starting point is 00:46:47 That's the absolutely unbelievable. I've never have to work again, but I don't think it worked like that. How it works, and that part is that a collection is going to be hand down, depending what the goal is of that person, but nobody's going to sell 10 million, 20 million. And I'm managing a collection for a couple of years. That doesn't mean that that is the end of the road. Like, if I manage a collection for five, six years and the guy has finished this done or wants to move on. I don't have right to 15% of his collection. No, I have right of 15%

Starting point is 00:47:18 of every watch that is being bought and sold from the moment he signed up. So if someone's buying or selling a watch, what's the best way to both get a deal and to get the highest price on a watch? Is it auction? Is it Chrono 24? Is it private parties? It is reaching out? I would always say, if you want a deal, don't ever buy from an auction. Very often, I would also say if you want to have a legit right, auctions are not always the right place to do. You want to sell a watch. Self something really special.

Starting point is 00:47:50 Auction is the way to go, right? Private buyers, fantastic, amazing. But certain watches don't need, you don't need to look for a new owner. You already, I don't have to. If one of my clients wants to sell his piece unique or wants to sell is one of the Crown Collection Rolexes, which nobody knows of.

Starting point is 00:48:11 or not many people know off. A crown collection is something you know it also, you know off catalog, but above that, there's also another collection. If someone wants to sell that, I don't have to look for a buyer. There's 20 people that want to buy that. Because every day passing, there's less and less in the world.

Starting point is 00:48:27 Meaning that the demand will always be there for that, because it's so extremely collectible and important. So, like, it's... Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if, like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair.

Starting point is 00:48:44 With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. It really depends case by case. Okay. And how do you make sure you're not getting scammed as both a seller or a buyer? Because I've been thinking about selling this watch because I never wear it.

Starting point is 00:49:00 But I don't want to be posting on Instagram like, hey guys. So you make a YouTube video? You just like say, I'm going to sell it. Fair enough. But how do I make sure I'm not going to get scammed? And how does a buyer know they're getting the real watch? Well, I don't know. about how people can avoid being scammed.

Starting point is 00:49:13 That's not really like I own a retail business and we sell watches and we buy watches, right? And I think it's really important to buy the seller or buy the person instead of going to the best offer, right? Give you an idea if you have a nautilus, oh shit, I can make 20 grand, yay, or 30 grand. They sell the watch to this dealer. The new owner registers himself as the new owner and bomb. The guy will never buy another watch again because he's blacklisted because he's all. is an autoism. Your cases will be different, but I mean, I would argue to say, just buy the seller. Buy the buy, like, do business with people that you feel comfortable with. And that's the key.

Starting point is 00:49:52 How can you avoid to get scammed? Do your research, not about the watch, but about the people you do business with. So funny, Doug DiMiro said the exact same thing in terms of selling cars. He said, you always have to buy the seller. When the seller has good documentation, the car is immaculate, you speak with them, that is a good sign. All right. So it's funny. Same thing. Everything can be, you can find everything online. Like if you search me, there's a lot of people that hate me,

Starting point is 00:50:18 but there's a lot of people that do like me. Oh, that weighs up. But like being so long on top of the tree is difficult without getting or people to try to either do you wrong or whatever. Mate, I have been, I've lost fortunes. I've been stolen from. I've been, oh, you've no idea. Lost half a million.

Starting point is 00:50:47 I'm not going to go in a greater detail right now with that, but I've been victim of that as well, and I am someone that is very thorough, right? But certain situations are unavoidable. Yeah. But just buy, if you just want to buy a watch or you just want to sell the watch, just do your research, to the people.

Starting point is 00:51:05 It's about the people you do business with. Speaking of cars, a watch really says a lot about you, I'm curious in terms of watch stereotypes that you've noticed. Yeah. And so we'll list a few of these and just give us your initial impression.

Starting point is 00:51:19 Rolex. High school dropout. Why? Because it's just like, love it. It's like, I'm a high school drop out. I always wanted to have a Rolex. Fuck teachers. Hate them.

Starting point is 00:51:29 I wanted the Rolex. AP. AP. First money made, investment banking, first money made, definitely money made. Already has a Rolex or just skipped the queue and just went AP because he loves watching YouTube videos and people wearing AP,

Starting point is 00:51:47 loves hip-hop, for sure loves hip-hop, for sure 100%. Yeah, that would be AP. Patek. Either extremely classy, well-dressed, serious, very serious, very thorough, very thoughtful. Hooplow. Very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care. Maybe even being a builder of a construction company. Richard Mill. Very insecure.

Starting point is 00:52:21 Tudor. Someone that actually is not really that fussed about what people think of watches or someone that is on the beginning of his watch collecting journey. Grand Saco. I love how you done that. I love that. I have never heard a Rolex owner stating that this is much better than Grand Sico. But I hear every single time without exception, a Grand Sico owner saying that this is better than Rolex.

Starting point is 00:52:52 I would say a Grand Siko stereotype for someone that wears Grand Siko or loves Gron Siko. Grand Siko is someone that is just against everything, just wants to be on the opposite spectrum. of everything. Everything but mainstream. Cassio. You don't care. You are just wearing a watch because it is bloody functional.

Starting point is 00:53:19 Zenith. Love how you got there. Someone that is, actually does this research, thinks about, it's very considerate, wants to buy a watch that, like,

Starting point is 00:53:29 he doesn't impulse buy a watch. That watch was never an impulse buy. Never. So a guy that is is genuinely wants to know more and realize that Zeneff actually was really important. JLC. That's a really difficult one.

Starting point is 00:53:45 I do like that. Someone that loves heritage and wants to not wear, just doesn't want to spend the money for a protect Philippe, doesn't see the value in that, but do want to wear something that is historically very important. I really like the person that wears Jezio Lecoq.

Starting point is 00:54:03 Yeah. Let's try this now. Just one word, the first word that comes to mind. People who finance watches are... Stupid. People who wear watches at the gym are... Stupid. People who are concerned about losing value are...

Starting point is 00:54:21 I'm just... you just, you just rated up and again. The first word is like, don't buy a watch. Oh, and it's one word. It's one word. One word. Ridiculous. Aftermarket diamonds and watches. Insecure.

Starting point is 00:54:34 The Rolex... wait list is fake the watch industry is a scam the most overrated watch brand hublo the biggest waste of money in watches is jacobicoe the biggest flex watch rich upy a guy wearing a hundred thousand dollar watch but broke is gambler a guy wearing a hundred dollar watch but is rich is my type of guy The biggest lie watch people tell themselves. That you can pull incredible women with watches. The dumbest watch purchase, you see. People going into, because people gamble it, they give an idea, right?

Starting point is 00:55:19 I know it's one word, but it's impossible. It's impossible to make it. People go on holiday and buy a watch tax-free at the airport or a cruise ship because they have no idea that that watch can be bought for even half of the price. that of Tech Tree is when they just click on the internet. The cheapest place to buy watches you'd say is on the internet secondhand. Yeah, or the UK. Now, when it comes to buying a watch, how wealthy do you think you should be to buy your first Rolex?

Starting point is 00:55:49 Well, I'm not the greatest example for that because I'm an absolute degenerate and I've always spent every penny that I had into watches. So I'm not the greatest best example. But I think you should be able to, I think for you, for a thing to consider it wise, to buy a luxury product, I think you need to be able to afford it at least five times. Just to be in a safe side. Like, I mean, that would be, I am not that guy. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:56:14 I went all in. My first ever Ferrari, I put the deposit down a 25K, and it was like 1,200 quid a month. And that was all the money I had. I just what it is. How often do you see people buying watches that you know they just can't afford it? I never do. I never do.

Starting point is 00:56:32 Because I, my business also, never do. It does. We don't really do finance. But maybe they just scrape together all the money, like they have 20 grand of their life and they're just like, let me go and buy this AP. I don't think I ever see that. I don't think the business has ever seen that. I don't think so. I don't know about people's, like, funny bit is with Americans, right? Americans are significantly more open than people in the UK and Europe, right? I actually love American, like, American and I love America. That is what I did. Right? Like people are so much so, like completely open here.

Starting point is 00:57:09 Like I don't see that. And next to that personally, I don't really sell watches below a certain amount, to be honest. So I don't really know. And those people are not really in that financial situation. We're going to name a few price points and you're going to say the best watch at each price point. Love that.

Starting point is 00:57:24 $1,000. DeSope your X. Hans-D. $10,000. 116-10 LN. Doesn't matter if it's with papers. Submariner. steel previous gen unbelievable

Starting point is 00:57:35 $25,000. Why do I go back to Rolex again? That's really annoying. That's really annoying. We shouldn't be doing that. But $25,000, the 16618 LN, solid gold, RLB, 16618 LB, the blue dial, solid gold, some manner, right?

Starting point is 00:58:00 But the older generation, you buy it for $25,000. easy. $50,000. AP, chronograph, 26331, ST. $100,000. A $3,700, but take Philippe Montelis. $1 million.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Vintage Daytona, a specific 6241, like something, Paul Newman, something really special. So I'm curious when it comes to collector watches like this, because I'm really into the value aspect. What watches do you think are good or safe to go up in value. I don't think that any watch that you know about will go up in value.

Starting point is 00:58:39 Well, that would be worth your time. 99% of the watches are not an investment. Like, the fact that you would know or you would think that that watch is an investment means it passes so many, so many more people. Well, so I would argue, I would think the floating dial Zen at Daytonas are undervalued. Oh yeah, they're undervalued. But the porcelain Daytonas are are undervalued, that stuff. That's all undervalued.

Starting point is 00:59:06 But like in today's market, like, you need to understand that people say, I'm buying this Rolex Daytona, this new ceramic because it's an investment. Then I laugh. I'm like, what is an investment? 6% a year? Like, I mean, is that really? I'm not talking about new watches. But if you could, out of all the watches out there,

Starting point is 00:59:26 spectrum from the 1900s through today. If there's watches out there that you think, hey, I think this is going to 10x over the next 20 years. Well, for a fact, there's Racheppe, Rachepe. Any watches that he touches is absolutely. You've probably never heard of that, have you? No. No, exactly. So that's why.

Starting point is 00:59:49 And you may have heard this here first. People have talked about it. But that's because I'm an industry insider. He only produces a handful of watches a year. Lucasoprana. You've never heard of that. 80K, Swiss Frank, that's where your buyer's watches up. But I'm telling you, that's the future.

Starting point is 01:00:08 Aurelia, young guy, worked at H. Moser. Have you heard of H. Moser? Yes. Right? That one I guess. Young guy, right? Just became a father of his second child. Like, we're talking real people that make real watches.

Starting point is 01:00:24 Like, this is the big difference with you don't get, right? The luxury aspect of the watch industry is a, as far as you know, is a brand. But as far as I know, it's the people behind it that make it. You cannot, like, you don't know any Rolex. But how do we know, how do we know which ones are going to be the future F.P. Jorn? Well, it's not that hard, Ritchie is going to surpass F.P.

Starting point is 01:00:47 Jorne any day of the week. Simon Brett is going to surpass F.P.Journ any day of the week. Like, those are independent watch brands. Independent watchmakers, sorry, correction. There's a difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker. That's a gigantic difference. I thought this was the most funniest thing in the world. You had the British watchmakers days.

Starting point is 01:01:07 That was like this big event. And I'm like, there was one watchmaker and the rest were watch brands. How the hell can you call that the British watchmaker days? I think that's the biggest fraud ever. Like a watch brand of the watchmaker is a difference. Roger Smith was the only watchmaker that was on the British watchmaking days. That was the only one. The rest were just watch brands that with bracelets from China, movements from there.

Starting point is 01:01:29 They just assemble a watch. That's not a watchmaker. If you think you're a watchmaker by just assembling watches, you're an embarrassment, to be frank. Well, you do not know if you buy a Jezsche LeCulte, who made your watch. So it's a mass product, but Richemont, but Jezsche LeCult is owned by Richemont,

Starting point is 01:01:47 so conglomerate. Their business model is simple. churn has many watches because that will give us profit. Aurelia, young guy, you actually make a direct impact on his life. He can only produce a handful of watches a year. Like, that's a watch that money can't buy because it's time you need. Same with Luca.

Starting point is 01:02:08 Same with Racheppe. Rachepe makes... Rachepe is the new F. V. Jorn. And it's buffed up. And people have no idea. How do you get one? Impossible. That's a watch that money can't buy.

Starting point is 01:02:21 So... How do I get on the wait list? Well, you need to go to Switzerland a lot of times and be very nice to Rachepe. And... I have to take him out to D'Soochepie. dinners and family outings. You're one of the thousands of people, right? Simon Redd exactly the same.

Starting point is 01:02:36 He's not going to accept your low-ball offer. So if I walk in, is he going to be on his phone? Like the lack- Best I could do, can I get 50% off? I- Jacob and go offer be 50% Why can you give me a 50% off? Like the thing is, right,

Starting point is 01:02:49 the reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bull stores to sell their product. Really quick, I just want to say that being an entrepreneur does not mean that you have to do everything yourself. In fact, the best business owners know how to delegate. But finding people who actually care about your business is the hard part. And that's exactly where our sponsor Upwork comes in.

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Starting point is 01:05:50 The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bull Thoris to sell their product. IWC. I would, like, mate, what do you call? The island boys have more authenticity than an IWC ever had. IWC is complete lost. Michael Jackson at his prime at a, had less of an identity crisis than IWC has today.

Starting point is 01:06:13 It's mad, right? Same with other, several other brands. Panera has no idea what the hell is going on. Like, those are not, those are not people that care about watches. The thing is, like, their marketing teams, Well, if you have marketing director of one brand, you're only going to be a marketing director of that brand for like two years, then you swap to another brand.

Starting point is 01:06:32 But you say all this stuff. Do you worry about lawsuits and getting sued? Were you just said that about Panery and Panery? And panorai is like, well, wait a second. We do care about our while. We're not just a marketing hub and then like slapping you with a lawsuit or like a cease and desist. Like you damaged Jacob and co, let's just say, because he's like, that's patently false that we, you know, discount our watches 50.

Starting point is 01:06:54 I don't know. I'm just saying. I hear what you're saying, but I mean, there's freedom of speech. No, I've not been sued because why the fuck do that? I'm telling the truth. Prove me otherwise. If I lie, if I give you misinformation, sue me, show me.

Starting point is 01:07:09 But everything I tell you, everything I say is the truth. So if I make a statement and it's absolutely the truth, Jacobico doesn't make a watch, it's concepto that makes that. Simple as, that's the truth. So they have to now prove to me that, well, or I need. to prove that they do that. Well, that's very easy. Like, I'm not a, like, it's not that I am looking for enemies all day every day. I just cut through the crap. I just want, this industry is my life, right? This is my life. This is not a money thing. I don't care about money, right?

Starting point is 01:07:45 I care about support, I care about how my son will see me whenever he is old enough. I stand for something. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape, or four. It's never been at a worst place than it is today. And it's sad, but it's not that people don't buy watches because they do, but it's the way the watch brands communicate. And this is why the end upon the watch space is so vitally important. And there's a watchmaker, a real guy, a genuine person that works his ass off in design was his biggest ambition. And I'm able to spend 3,000 points by his watch. I not only make his, like, his day or his life or whatever.

Starting point is 01:08:34 Like, I mean, I'm actually making a direct impact. I'd rather see that than throwing a, buy in another puna guy and whatever. Would you wear only Hugh Blows for one year for a million dollars? Not for a million dollars, no. No, no chance. How much would you have to be paid to only wear Hugh Blows? 25 million at least 25 million dollars

Starting point is 01:08:56 So Hubello there To be honest mate Hublo there I Like this whole thing was all fun in games Hey who blow shit and this and that right

Starting point is 01:09:05 But from the bottom of my heart I am really embarrassed for people that have bought Hubeau And I'm just gonna give you Yeah because it actually pisses me off right So you did Jack Right

Starting point is 01:09:18 It actually royally pisses me off On another level right I Buhblow wanted to make a video, right, with me, right? And I'm like, fine. Oh, let's do that. But I want you to make a donation to a charity, which is important to me, which is to make sure that children during Christmas have a Christmas present

Starting point is 01:09:36 because a lot of people, a lot of kids in Northern Ireland didn't have that, right? Instead of paying all those influencers and all those ambassadors, I want you to do one thing. I'll do you. I'll make a video with you. I'll let you talk and we'll have an open, honest and real conversation. And you can prove me wrong. I would love that.

Starting point is 01:09:53 I want you to do this. Instead of you paying money to all those influencers, I want you to do one thing for me. One thing. A hundred thousand pounds sterling and I match that. A hundred thousand pounds sterling to a charity that is close to my heart. And they said, well, I don't care. I'd rather give two million dollars to 50 cent for a launch of a watch

Starting point is 01:10:19 to basically an influencer party. I'd rather spend $2 million to that than actually making an impact for the next generation. It's an embarrassment of the highest degree. I think that leadership at Hubelow is beyond embarrassing. And LVMAG needs to have a really good look at themselves because this is where Zenneth went in. This is exactly the same group.

Starting point is 01:10:40 Zenith is nearly bankrupt or they're going, they're for sale anyway, the brand. Like they have same as, I obviously see a big identity crisis, but we'll not go into detail. But I think it's really embarrassing. And I'm dead serious. Like,

Starting point is 01:10:56 a hundred thousand pounds for a charity or $2 million for 50 cents to perform for some influencers. Did they flat out say, no, no, they literally said flat out, no. No, the CEO in the comments on Instagram said out no. No.

Starting point is 01:11:08 A couple of weeks later, big event with 50 cents for all their influencers. Honestly, everyone that wears a hoop blow, I would love to have them have that feeling. Like, this is what you're doing. Like, I was generally, Manually wanting to be an open and make an impact together, right? I was open.

Starting point is 01:11:28 I'll listen. Well, listen to you. I'll not be critical. I'll be straight. Let's have an open conversation and make an impact for the next generation of watch people. What is the best watch that Hublo makes? Never. None.

Starting point is 01:11:42 I am done. I will never say. There's not a single one that you think is like a half decent watch. I think, what is it, the Big Bang? Is it the Big Bang? movement, which I find funny, which Hublo also didn't make, was introduced in 2018. It was done together with Dustin Johnson. I think Marco created that. It's a mechanical golf counter, but the thing is super fragile, right? It's a mechanical golf counter. I love that idea of that

Starting point is 01:12:09 concept. The guy that produces that actually left to Hublo and then started his own brand called Crisscross Studios, which is doing cool stuff, right? Keep in mind, these are just brands. These are fronts. There's actually real people that have ambitions sometimes behind it and start their own watch round, which is funny. It doesn't sound like you're very happy with what's going on with the current state of the watch market in general. It seems like there's a lot of hype, a lot of just mass-produced pieces, and most people are completely disillusioned. The watch that they're getting is actually rare when reality, they make hundreds of thousands of them. Well, it's not the state of the watching the street I'm worried about. It's the fact that, like, I mean, maybe that's me getting

Starting point is 01:12:55 older, right? Maybe that's me. You remember when your dad or your parents once said back in the day the music was better? Like, maybe it's one of those. I don't know. Maybe it is, but what I see today is just, it worries me, mate. It genuinely does. I care about this industry and I care about this people. But on the other hand, the mismanagement of these bigger brands has created a complete different market, which I absolutely love. It's the independent space. We've seen that with MBNF, MBNF. Mbren F, fucking Max Bisser worked for,

Starting point is 01:13:26 Jaze LeCold. He worked. I mean, they all go independent. They create something and actually make an impact. Like, and that's amazing. Like, the mismanagement creates a complete different economy on its own. Yeah. But I want people to just, they really, really,

Starting point is 01:13:45 like, I would celebrate anyone that wants to learn more about watches. because mechanical timekeeping devices tracking something that we haven't defined yet. Brian Cox, time is not a proven concept. We have all different calendars. They have a different calendar in China than we have here. So time is not a proven concept. We're tracking something that is not a proven concept.

Starting point is 01:14:09 But mechanical engineering of a watch, it's just, like, it's insane. It's actually incredible. Like, I urge every single person to dive deep and learn some, learn about that and the historic importance of how important, like we wouldn't be able to fly today, like be on a boat, navigate. Like, that's so important.

Starting point is 01:14:29 And I love every bit of that. And then I hope people then, I hope that people then really do their research when they buy a watch. And ideally in an ideal world, stay away from mainstream. Just go and support watchmakers that actually really care

Starting point is 01:14:44 instead of the marketing board that's being served. People have the goat debate, in like the NBA, they say it's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, they have it in soccer with like Lionel Messi, Christiana Ronaldo. Who is, or what is the goat watchmaker? They're both British, right?

Starting point is 01:15:03 And they both reside, well, one is dead, George Daniels. He's the goat. He wasn't even a watchmaker. He was a mechanic. Watchmaking was not to be improved. It was impossible to be improved, and he improved it. Last person to ever improve the watch industry, by the way. Watch mechanical, the mechanical aspect of watching.

Starting point is 01:15:26 Last person. And his apprentice, Roger Smith. Those two, funny enough, what I would say are the goat. One is not with us anymore. The other one is working exactly as George Daniels set it out to be. And what is the goat watch brand? Well, the most important one in the world, which is one third of the entire Swiss watch industry, Rolex, that's

Starting point is 01:15:50 Panstein. And although the luxury aspect is not the product, it's the journey making you feel like that is, that's the actual product, right? You don't know, but the journey is the actual product. Being able to be considered, oh, it's a privilege to be considered. And then being able to buy one,

Starting point is 01:16:09 oh, they allow me to buy one. That feeling would you get from that, that's the actual product, not the actual watch. There's not a watch brand of the world that has ever been able to do that. Or not, I would say Hermes would be in a different space, but there's not a watch brand of the world that can do that. How does Rolex operate as a nonprofit? They do not operate as a nonprofit.

Starting point is 01:16:30 They are a profitable organization, but they're owned by the Hans Wilsdor Foundation. So Rolex and Tudor are both profitable organizations, right? But they're owned by a foundation. It's clever. It's just how to avoid paying. It's, yeah, it's tax. We should be a non-prom. We really should.

Starting point is 01:16:53 Yeah, because you're adding value. Exactly. Yeah. Be clever. You can't blame that. You can't. Like, I mean, the- Don't hate the player.

Starting point is 01:17:01 The largest bank wire in the world is once a year, right? I think it goes from, it's Google. I think it goes from like the Bermuda, one of these islands, or from Ireland or something like that, like to the Bermuda. Like, it's the biggest bank wire ever. It's just once here. It's just tax. It's just like air licensing.

Starting point is 01:17:21 It's amazing how you need to be creative. And Rolex is like very creative. Because our average view of demographic is between 18 and 35, let's say for the average man under 40 years old, what would the perfect collection look like? How many watches and what's the bunny? Let's just say, I mean, it's no money. Money aside, amount of watches aside,

Starting point is 01:17:41 just what would you say they should consider when curating their collection? Rolex Submariner is a sports watch for sure. hands down. Or even a Rolex GMT. I think a Rolex GMT is the most functional movement or functional watch out there. And I use that every day. For me, if I travel Rolex GMT, I would say submariner it's just more because it's iconic. But like there are days in my life that I'm not under, not at like a thousand feet underwater. Like I mean, a Rolex GMT is properly functional because you can read multiple timesomes. I think a chronograph is vital, Omega Speedmaster. It's an incredible story

Starting point is 01:18:16 with that because that watch was like it saved lives that watch. And it wasn't even meant to go to space, but it saved lives, the famous 14 seconds, Apollo 11. Or was the Apollo 12, Apollo 11. I think that's really important. I think dress, right? And if there's no budget and if I can do whatever the hell I want, 6119, I think it's one of the most cleanest dials. The reason why I said 6119 is exactly the same case, but it's exactly the same case. To prescribe for an average viewer out there, because I would.

Starting point is 01:18:46 would say our average viewer would probably not be, you know, multiple Rolexes or multiple. So, yeah, that's why it's like budget. So I would say a practical, you know, maybe under $15,000. Under $15,000 for watches. I think a Speedmaster has to be in that collection. A GMT watch, we did, this case, the Truder Black Bay Pro would be an incredible watch because it's very, it's very affordable. It's, well, affordable is a relative term, but it's, it's, it's, it's,

Starting point is 01:19:16 very accessible. And you have a GMT function and it has the incredible heritage. Speedmaster, like I mentioned, because it's so important and it's really, really cool. And as a dress watch, I would say this is actually modern. I'm going to say that. A pre-owned Chopar because Chopar is one of the only big watch brands that makes everything themselves, every, everything themselves, like every aspect of the watch is made by them. And I love that.

Starting point is 01:19:43 And you can pick them up for like 60% of the retail price. You can buy an unbelievable show bar, like five grand, six grand. I love that. I love that as a dress watch. Does it matter if you buy a watch with box and papers? Modern stuff, no. I don't care. Vintage stuff, I don't care.

Starting point is 01:20:02 It's not the watch that matters. Modern stuff, like, I can't wear a box or a papers. But like, if its watch is bought with a single purpose as an investment, like vintage pieces, well, amazing. Make sure it does help. But papers do not certify or verify that a watch is legit, yes or not. Absolutely not. People say, oh, yeah, papers.

Starting point is 01:20:24 Yeah, this watch is real because it has papers. Well, if you can replicate a watch, do you not think you can replicate a card, maybe? I want you to react to this clip. What would you say is your worst investment of all time? I hate this watch. What do you not like it about it? Because it was a terrible investment. Could I see it?

Starting point is 01:20:41 It represents a house, dude. How much is that watch, Graham? It's got to be 400. 500 but I owned another one a black one that was a million dollar watch and it was stolen from me you have insurance off my arm no I didn't have insurance well the black one that it showed on a photo or in the video that there's never been a million dollars but that aside um I get it I get it I get it richard meal has lost a lot of money like it's losing a lot of value I get it and again like I said Rishamil blew up in such a short amount of time that it was like at some point it's ignorant

Starting point is 01:21:14 to think that this will always go that way. I get it. I get it. However, it is still a reshot meal. It's still a reshah meal, and they have changed the industry a wee bit. Like, that was the first and only real hyperwatch, if you compared with the automotive industry. Like, special.

Starting point is 01:21:33 Here's one more clip I want to show you. Walk in, rocking this watch, and it's massive. Alex is supposed to guess how much you bought that for. Oh, okay. Alex. My guess is that that watch costs approximately, $17,500. Alex. I'm guessing $85.

Starting point is 01:21:49 My guess is $35 because you got a deal and you can buy it at MSRP. I go to this place called Happy Jeweler and he does a lot of athletes and stuff like that out in California. And he just so happened to get this watch in stock. And I had texted him for months. I was like, if you ever see this exact watch, let me know. I love black and blue. And he says, I got it in stock. And he's like, I'm actually going to give it to you below cost of what I have it at.

Starting point is 01:22:11 He's like, just because I know you're going to make content, it's going to help. out and I want to build a relationship with you. You're going to refer me a bunch of clients, which I have. Now I'm talking about it on this podcast, right? So I ended up getting it from him for like 42,000. And I was looking at it on eBay the other day. I think it was like worth 60 to 70 now. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:28 You saw the watch? If it was any other jeweler, any other jeweler other than happy jewelers, I would say it's bull. But happy jewelers, they're generally like that. They're unbelievable guys. Like if it was anyone else, I say, below cost, off, never.

Starting point is 01:22:45 Happy jewelers, I think, are hands down in the US the best. I think they're amazing. And the brothers, hard workers, I have never seen a shop like it. The vibe is incredible. And if you're ever in California, I would highly recommend you. You know what's so funny? That clip got millions of views. And when you think they discounted his watch across all the people who's, that's free marketing

Starting point is 01:23:09 for them. They probably, I'm curious what their ROI was on that clip. Yeah, well, there's maybe a clip coming out of that, but the brothers, genuinely, they're nicest people you'll ever meet. Like, if there's, if it was any other jeweler, any other watch dealer, I would say, yeah, good story, bro. Good luck. You're very, yeah. That's really good to know. That makes me feel good, man. It gets me hope that there's, you know, the people that Graham could get really cheap stuff. Yeah, exactly, because he wants to be in a front row for a penny. You see what I mean? That's you, by the way. Well, you were talking about how scammy the watch industry is. And so going from Happy Jewelers, we got two thumbs up here.

Starting point is 01:23:50 Oh, yeah. What are some of the tricks that you see throughout the watch industry that you want to call out? I would actually argue to say the great market is the real market. That's the honest market. Like retail is a scam. Right? It's a scam. Retail price is going up out of a zoo.

Starting point is 01:24:03 It is insane. Oh, yeah. Cost of this and that. Nate, $200,000 for an auto list. Are you out of your mind? This is out of the box retail. Like, I mean, the new Nautilus, what they've introduced, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus.

Starting point is 01:24:19 How much? I'm like, are you out of your mind? It's a normal white, gold time-only watch, not even a date, $100,000. Retail. That's a scam. The real value of a product is actually defined at the great market. And I would argue to say that that is also the most honest variation,

Starting point is 01:24:35 honest version of that. But now, I watch these YouTube channels where the guy, he constantly talks about the tricks that people pull when they sell a watch, like they might ship my watch. He looks out and says, this is an aftermarket dial. Or this watch was somehow swapped to be this watch. And it's advertisers.

Starting point is 01:24:51 How often do you see that? I see that. Within our business, not very much because I'm luckily in the UK. And the UK people actually take accountability. But in the US, it's a big scam, mate. Like, if you buy a watch, if you want trouble and you want to be in the front row seat for a penny, you go to New York.

Starting point is 01:25:08 You will get over. And I'll promise you that. I'll put money on it. I put money on it. And it's actually an embarrassment. I mean, I mean, countless times. I mean, genuinely, it happens more than it doesn't.

Starting point is 01:25:25 So it's, it is actually sad. But now comes the point, right? Have you ever bought a stolen watch? No, but I bought a watch that then was later registered stolen. Like, that's funny. Then an insurance trick. That's hilarious. What's the trick?

Starting point is 01:25:41 Well, you, so, You buy a watch, you sell the thing, you call your insurance company, I lost my watch, here's the serial number, I have the watch and I done, he gets his money paid out, I paid him, so he got paid twice, and I'm sitting there, I want to sell this watch and I was registered stolen. That's bad. It seems like it's the easiest thing to get caught in because you have a... People don't think, make.

Starting point is 01:26:05 People are sometimes not using their own brains. It's hilarious. Do you not think that that will backfire? Yeah. Like, it's hilarious. And this is also what you see in New York. New York is quite. So how often do you see fake watches?

Starting point is 01:26:18 Not very often. You know what, right? When I started with YouTube and TikTok and stuff, right? It was all over the thing, all over, right? I remember the unicorn family. I don't know if you've ever seen like that. That was mad, mate. I don't know where that is still exists.

Starting point is 01:26:32 But every other clip about watches was people flexing fake watches. Like, I don't see that anymore on socials. Are the fakes just getting better? No. is people are just more cautious with like sharing fake stuff. Like what watch buster? Probably a byproduct of you. Like I would, I wouldn't, I would love to think.

Starting point is 01:26:51 I would love that. But like maybe that's a wee bit my egos, maybe a wee bit too big, but that could potentially be. Well, I would have that at an impact, but like fake watch busters and baller busters. Baller Busters. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:01 I see it less and less. And I'm like, actually, that's a good thing. But do you think maybe people just get desensitized to it? Like there's so many people were fake watches that at this point, it's just stops like, I don't see online people flexing fake watches not in. I do see sometimes, but not in the rate that I've ever seen. What's the worst you've ever called someone out for wearing a fake watch?

Starting point is 01:27:23 Rick Ross. Rick Ross, that was embarrassing. But he could afford the real one. So why would it, why would it matter if he's around a fake one? Well, can he? Right? I thought he has like a $20 million house in Florida. Yeah, but like you can find us that to the hill.

Starting point is 01:27:36 You can't find us a little watch of that magnitude. Like, it gives you an idea. That watch is part of a set of 10 watches. That set was like $12 or $14 million. You couldn't get that watch individually. That's how I knew. You couldn't get that watch individually. Could it be aftermarket?

Starting point is 01:27:52 Yeah, it was aftermarket. It was fully custom. Okay. Right? It was fully custom. And let me explain to you. You have a watch, right? And it says on the Dow, Automarpiek, right?

Starting point is 01:28:05 The bracelet is, however, not made by AutomarPK. The case is not made by AutomarPK. The Dow is not made by AutomRPK. is not made by automatic. Crime is not made by autumn RPCA, but oh, it has an AP movement. Is that what's real or is that what's fake? I'd call it a Frankenstein. Why?

Starting point is 01:28:27 Because the movement itself is AP combined with other pieces. I just call out a Frankenstein watch. A Frankenstein watch needs a balance of 50-50, not 90-10. Like, to give you an idea, right? And there's another example. If I buy a BMW 5 series and I make it look like with a body kit like an M5, do I have a fake M5? Well, that's the question, right?

Starting point is 01:28:57 I would say, but here's the thing. I would say if it has an M5 engine. Yeah, but it doesn't. Now comes another point, right? A custom, there's a big difference between watches, custom and a watch that is I would consider fake. That green watch that Rick Ross had was directly made to replicate this piece unique. That was at that moment in time of peace unique, but directly to replicate that watch, a direct one-on-one.

Starting point is 01:29:23 A watch that's custom that is just iced out is not replicating nothing because that watch that they just never existed like that in the first place. So that's not to replicate something. Like that green watch that Rick Ross had was a direct replica. of the actual watch that AP made at that time one-off. Do you think he knew it was fake? I think he, no, I don't think. I looking at the communication at that moment in time, 100%,

Starting point is 01:29:57 but his ego was too big. What do you think about people who wear fake watches? And do you think it's wrong to wear a fake watch? I think it's wrong in every way, shape or form. I think if you're wearing a fake watch, listen, I've been on this journey when I was 16. I wore fake watch because I couldn't afford it. I was so insecure and I wanted to feel,

Starting point is 01:30:14 I wanted to be part of something. Like, I wanted to be considered cool. Well, let me tell you, wearing a fake watch doesn't make you cool, right? Genuinely, it doesn't. I have been part of that. I get it. I understand it. But if you're a bloody adult, if you're 35 years old and you're wearing a fake watch,

Starting point is 01:30:31 like, I mean. But what if you genuinely like the watch, but you're like, it might not be worth the retail price. So I'm going to buy a fake one. Well, why would you, why would you support criminal activities like, like copyright infringements? Why would you do that? Like, a lot of people don't understand that the funds are very often used. Well, it goes handed out of drug trade, simple as, let me be very clear, cartels and drug trades.

Starting point is 01:30:59 In the environment that some of those watches are being produced, it's shocking. Like, I have been, well, I've been. in China, I've seen some stuff that I wish I never saw, but it's quite, it's quite poor. So what's your defense of fake watches? Yeah, what, like, why would you, I buy a watch for myself. Yeah. Right. I can imagine I'm on a fake watch that's fake?

Starting point is 01:31:23 And I'm like, I'm a fake. I'm faking. I'm fake. That's all I am. That's all it says. I'm completely indifferent to it. I think it's one thing if you're trying to do it to impress somebody, but I think if you genuinely like the watch

Starting point is 01:31:38 and it's the same thing and you just save the money I'm pretty indifferent to it well everyone has his own opinion mate I absolutely respect your opinion but like I'm not going to lie but like

Starting point is 01:31:55 would you drive in a fake car would you do would you wear fake clothes? I wanted a uh would you like I wanted a replica kuntash I want a real kuntash and that is five motive anything to work harder.

Starting point is 01:32:08 It is a motivation. I would feel so guilty driving the Kuntosh, the real one, because I'd be worried about putting miles on it or someone dinging it, but if you have the

Starting point is 01:32:16 replica Kuntash, I feel like I wouldn't care. I could freely enjoy it. I don't have to worry about like, oh, I'm putting miles on my car. I make money working. I don't make money

Starting point is 01:32:29 with collecting cars and doing a... I want to buy a car because I want to drive that bloody thing. See, here's it. That's why I... I make money with other things. You've never heard of the dollar to fund ratio.

Starting point is 01:32:40 I look at how much fun could I have for this dollar? And if I could get 90% of the fund for 50% of the price, then I do that. And then you fucking... No, because they still get 90% of the fund. Give you imagine sitting on a chair there, right? Sitting chilling, right? You don't have kids yet, so... But sitting there, you have kids or maybe you'll ever, whatever,

Starting point is 01:33:01 sitting there chilling and you have fucking a month of life and like, I wish I'd show up that count as much more, but... But you could say the same thing about anything. Let's say you got to dinner and you could have this incredible experience. It's awesome. But it's $1,000 a person. Or you could have 90% of the same experience for $100. It's not going to be as crazy, but it's one-tenth the price.

Starting point is 01:33:21 Yeah, but that's different. Like buying a countess, working your ass off and being able to afford it. And then not faving it. But you could still do all of those things, be able to afford it, but be like, well, the dollar to fund ratios suggests that I could do this thing instead. You still get the same enjoyment of being able to. buy the car, but that's more you thing because the money is a really important subject in your life. I don't care. I don't. I don't care. I've never had money. Didn't care. No, I have money.

Starting point is 01:33:48 I still don't care. Money is not my motivation. I never, like, of course I am thinking about, okay, I can't do that. I can't do this. But like, money is there to do good. Meaning if I can buy that watch from a business that or a watchmaker and it will actually have an impact or a business, I can actually contribute. I'd rather fuck that because that makes an impact and I can make a difference and I can make a change. I don't care about money. I don't.

Starting point is 01:34:15 Never did. I never will. It's never been a motivation. And I hear what you're saying. Yeah, this and 50% yeah. Well, I donate money to charities about dogs. I fund in Northern Ireland, the dog house sanctuary for years. I've donated that.

Starting point is 01:34:32 Nick, did I fucking care? No, yeah. If I didn't do that, I had more and I could. could have bought another car. Yeah, fantastic. Or just work more efficient, make more money. Simple. Money needs to, for me, and this is the great thing. We're opposites. That's the great thing about watching with different tastes. Like, if you can afford a kuntas, it's a kuntars, bad example, because the fucking thing is the drive. That's another thing. But if it's like something else, like a three five five, like Ferrari, that like I recently bought a

Starting point is 01:35:06 three, five, five, by the way. Great car. Unbelievable. Sorry for my language, but now we're talking, right? So absolutely unbelievable car, right? And you could buy that for like $150,000. Or you buy like an improved variation of that, Evaluto, right?

Starting point is 01:35:20 Recently acquired an Evaluto. That's coming in a couple of months, right? Or I don't know, is it a year? It's out of we been, right? It's like the perfect version of that car and it's like $800,000, right? Absolutely insane car. But whenever I bought my first Ferrari, it was the absolute bollocks. Then I bought another supercar and another supercar.

Starting point is 01:35:41 And I'm super grateful that I can do that, right? Because I never had money in my pocket. I never realized, I never thought it would be even a possibility. But the fact that I can do that, super grateful. But then you are surrounding yourself and you're in circles and you realize, I'm in Dubai and there's another 812 and there's another 812 and there's an eight, mate. They're building 14,000 cars, Ferrari.

Starting point is 01:36:03 There's nothing unique about that. Same as having a Rolex. Man, any bloke I will see in two miles today, like, there will be people that have a Rolex. Like, I want to buy a car because it, I just want to drive it. I want to enjoy it. And for example, the Evaluto, insane car, right? There's only 55 of them, right? It's only 55 of them.

Starting point is 01:36:27 Like, that's unique. I won't see another one. Do I not drive it because there's only 55 of them and maybe it loses value? I don't care. I buy that. card because I want to drive it. Like, not because I want to keep it in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a,

Starting point is 01:36:44 so you see you're good at, at picking out fake watches. I like to think so, yeah. Okay. We compiled between everyone that works at the ice coffee hour watches. Right. Let's go. They're all fake. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:57 They're all real. Yeah. You don't know. Well, let's see. First, you're going to be doing the look test. Yeah. So you're going to be able to see these watches. and not feel them yet.

Starting point is 01:37:09 Panagai, Luminar Marina. Real. Rolex Dejas, Real. Rolex Submarner, Real. Aquanaut, 5167.

Starting point is 01:37:21 Real. Real. Real. Now would you like to open them? Yeah. Feels, but the problem with Panadai is their genuine movements

Starting point is 01:37:35 are as rubbish as they're fake ones. So you're quite close. that is a difficult one this and panadai is not really my gig but looking at the numbers number 139 of 600 that is that makes sense case is case is titanium watches and opc it it all looks it all looks like it makes sense so that's real it all looks like it makes sense right ah well i don't even have you could feel it you could do it oh no i don't have like this is fine that's real yeah it's real didn't know you had an aquanaut mate no Don't look at absolute. Absolute, arsul. No, it feels, it feels, it feels, it feels legit. Go to Geneva's fun well. If this is Chinese, I'm actually impressed.

Starting point is 01:38:38 What I don't like is the clasp. That is actually gives me a wee bit of warning signs, the clasp. That makes, that worries me a wee bit. But it's too, it's too right. Yeah, that's right. That's good. Yeah, that's all, that's legit. Three of them are real.

Starting point is 01:39:05 Three of them are fake. This one. If there's a fake one, it's that one. If there's a fake one, it's this one. Because it's impossible, really, to see that. What do you mean it's impossible to see that? There's no tails. This is, this case is done perfect.

Starting point is 01:39:22 Race that is done perfect. I don't have a date on this watch. You could, by the way, take the watch out. You can screw it. You could do it. Yeah, we want to see if. this one too it's really difficult to see that

Starting point is 01:39:38 due to the fact I can't open a watch and I don't have much tails but this must be fake that one could be it's hard to see but I need to open it up I need to know I just feel that this one is legit it just feels right

Starting point is 01:39:55 but this is the most copied watch in the planet so it could be a trick one that one is way too smooth that's done perfectly. So this is legit. So if there's fake ones, it should be. You didn't know this one.

Starting point is 01:40:12 Well, I have a date here and I'm pretty happy with that. And I like the Dow. I like the Dowel. Screw's all right. I'm pretty happy with that. That's not too. So if it was fake, it would have been dose three. That's 100% legit.

Starting point is 01:40:35 It's a risky one this. That one is the most copied watch. I like that. That watch. Rehold is. Let me see if the reholders, right. I like to do it this way. Three or three.

Starting point is 01:40:55 Correct. You're correct. All right. Thank you. I'm actually really impressed. Yeah. I thought the Potec would be the dead giveaway because of how it sounds. And it's a little thick.

Starting point is 01:41:08 I didn't like the clasp, right? No, the clasp is awful. And you could see all the inner markings and you hear it. Listen to the movement. No, no, no. If I grab you a real acornet, you have a little. It's exactly the same. It's exactly the same.

Starting point is 01:41:21 No, wait. It's exactly the same. Could you grab, oh, here, if you grab that box, you'll hear it's exactly the same. Like, I love, the date is so good on this. It's actually scary.

Starting point is 01:41:33 Like, that is a tell, right? This is just, this is really, this is impossible to really see this in the out. This is done by a factory called Nube and W-O-B. This is V-S-F. Oh, V-S-F, yes. That's Newb Factory.

Starting point is 01:41:46 That's the same factory, if you know what I mean. So, like, there's no way of telling that from the outside, really. Right. That one may, like, the panorai movements were so shriek at the day. So I would say those three real, that's why. Graham, how much did you pay for this? $465.

Starting point is 01:42:06 Should he have bought a real one? Was this worth it? No, because now people know you're wearing a fake watch. I don't care. Oh, that's so much better than mine. Oh, my gosh. This is so smooth These are all real, by the way

Starting point is 01:42:21 They're all what? They're all real They're all real Oh my gosh This Daytona is in Can I pull it? Yeah That was fun

Starting point is 01:42:30 I bought that watch With every last penny I had What did you pay for this? 180,000 Euros Oh What do you think this is worth today? 450

Starting point is 01:42:42 In total What is the value of all of those watches? Million maybe Is this your personal collection? Yeah, I don't, I, I, I, I only travel with personal watches. Does this not make you nervous to travel? Like, is this all insured? It's all insured, yeah.

Starting point is 01:43:00 Yeah, but nobody knows. I travel, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Now, in terms of your collection, it's gorgeous. Do you have any watches that you regret selling? Yeah. What is that? My first luxury watch, I had to sell, my Speedmaster. still tried to buy it back.

Starting point is 01:43:20 Several watches, several vintage Daytonas I sold. I had to sell watches to fund the business because the business was losing money, some of which I will never be able to buy back. I would argue to say the majority of watches I sold, I regret. But I've been in a very fortunate situation that the last two years I didn't need to buy a a cell a watch anymore. And that means I can focus on. proper collecting again. There was one clip that I didn't show you that I'm going to show you now.

Starting point is 01:43:52 And that's for extra cult that as well? Only fans? No, no, only fans. Yeah. The second controversial theory that you've got is that you strongly believe that any Rolex that you buy that's manufactured after 2010 is actually not made in Switzerland. You believe this is an Asian product. Yeah, the major part of the component parts of the Watts are all made in the Orient. Do we have a Pepsi here, A modern Pepsi? Boom, right here. It's a 2025 Pepsi. What do you think?

Starting point is 01:44:19 Is that a $1,500 watch or is that a $22,000 watch? It's a $1,500 watch. The reason it's a $1,500 loss is I can go to Hong Kong and buy this same thing, Superclone. You can't tell the difference. That's why it's $1,500. It's $15,000 because Rolex wants $15,000. Let me tell you, after this next year and the truth comes out about production in China, Try to sell this for anything.

Starting point is 01:44:47 Try to sell this more than two grand. Yeah, that's just a viral clip to have a viral clip, right? What you see here is a lot of bollocks, right? Yes, there's parts coming out of China. That doesn't really work for Rolex, for many other brands. It does. But to give you an idea, enable for a watch to be called Swiss made 50% of the value,

Starting point is 01:45:07 not 50% of the components, but 50% of the value of the movement needs to be common from Switzerland. So that means that, yeah, They can have screws coming from China. And yes, there's nothing wrong with that. Because some of the Chinese manufacturing is significantly better than what they can produce in fucking Switzerland. So they're making the best product.

Starting point is 01:45:26 And what are you saying is wrong? That's not a $1,500 watch. Maybe it is. It's a Rolex and it's a legit Rolex. And you're not paying for the manufacturing. Like, buying a Rolex is not the product. It's, like I said, the cycle. Right?

Starting point is 01:45:43 Being able to be considered, feel special. Oh, maybe I'm getting a watch. Then you get a call. Yes. Oh, I can buy a watch. Oh, shit. I own a watch. I can wear it.

Starting point is 01:45:52 That cycle is the product, not the actual watch. I just, I hate that game. That game is not for me. I hate it too. Yeah. I hate it too. But people want what they cannot have. That's what's called marketing.

Starting point is 01:46:07 And that's a lie across. And it's wrong in everywhere possible. But like, I mean, it's with far, it's with every luxury aspect. That's the true form of luxury. It's the fact you cannot have something and you want it and there you get it. That's luxury. But he's stating is absolutely wrong. So one thing I'm curious about in the Mark Tilbury podcast, he said he Googled your net worth

Starting point is 01:46:31 and said it came up as $4 million and you're like, oh, no, that's really wrong. South, south of that. And we're all very surprised. I'm curious if you surpassed $4 million now. I'm probably the richest guy on the planet. I'm telling him. have a beautiful family and I have a job I don't call a job I think that that is the most important thing and that it gives that makes me a very wealthy man and uh I'm very grateful that I don't know

Starting point is 01:47:01 what the price of a carton of milk is and that is a really good place to be I don't know what my net worth is I know I own several companies we employ a lot of people throughout all our companies and we add a lot of value. And my net worth, I don't know. I can't, I have no idea. I don't care. And I want to keep it that way because the motivation is never money.

Starting point is 01:47:28 The motivation is impact. What's your advice for success? You can only excel on the things you truly love. So when you have your passion, you can be the best at it, but it is adding value first before you are able or allowed to make a penny. Make sure you add value first

Starting point is 01:47:51 and then maybe if you work hard enough, you can take value out of it. My aim is or my advice is, don't ever fucking listen to anyone because people have said throughout the years and still they do that every day. You will fail, you'll not do this, you'll not do that. I listen to me and I'm my own best motivation.

Starting point is 01:48:21 And my kids are the reason. So that I do everything now that was different back in the day and I wasn't the father. But the key is add value first before you're allowed to take any value. People say, I'm going to start my own business. You're going to start. I'm going to become an influencer and gain a following. them like why would you gain a following? Do you add value to people that follow you?

Starting point is 01:48:46 Do you give information that would actually impact their lives? Like, why would people follow you? Why do you think if you put a video out there that people would actually watch? Like, time is our most valuable asset. Why would someone take time other day to watch your video? And I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset. And I spent that watching a video of me talking about my favorite subject. I'm a lucky man.

Starting point is 01:49:16 That makes me a very wealthy man. I've also noticed that you've been getting in shape. Thank you. You look really good. I appreciate that. What was some of the motivation behind that? Was it having a family that kind of spark things in emotion? There was a big chance that I wouldn't have made it the other side if I didn't change things.

Starting point is 01:49:35 My life, myself, my health. We figured out things and I need. needed to change my lifestyle if I wanted to see my parents and my kids grow up, which is the only motivation. And yeah, that was a big, it was a tough bill to swallow and it's a tough journey, but it's a journey I thoroughly enjoy. And it's good to feel, feel fresh feel. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:59 Yeah, I, I had to do it. Otherwise, it would have maybe ended up differently. It's interesting. our prior editor Alex just had a child and he is down I believe it's probably now 150 pounds since finding out that his wife

Starting point is 01:50:20 was pregnant like I respect that so much I know how tough this is I've been there on that I lost 60 well about 70 pounds and it's not been easy and I maintain it and I it will always be part of my life

Starting point is 01:50:35 I yeah But like my kids are all my reasons. And I want to see my kids grown up. And that's the only thing. I want to be an example to my son. And I want to protect my daughter. So I had to get my act together and I needed a wee bit of luck.

Starting point is 01:50:52 And we got out of that. So I'm in a really good place. And people have no idea, but there was a period that I didn't film for months. We prepared for some stuff and that I needed to go through. And we've basically filmed for a series amount of time. and then I was off and I was just focused on health and the stuff I'm dealing with.

Starting point is 01:51:14 So it's really cool. You're looking great, man. I appreciate that. It means a lot. It means a lot. Yeah. I agree. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:51:20 Thank you. Here we have a tier list of different watch brands. I want you to list them all out. Let's go. Let's go. Honest opinion. A long and sooner. S is the best, yeah?

Starting point is 01:51:32 A long and sooner. I am not rating it. I think it is amazing. well, no, A long and sooner. I rate it, amazing watchmaking, part of the Richemont Group. It's really unauthentically put in the market and effect last year

Starting point is 01:51:47 with only a hundred of a rose gold Odysseus. I think the watch brand as a watch brand, as people that work there, I would rate them, but because of their mentality in the way they want to boost up the fake C. Automar Piquet C.

Starting point is 01:52:05 And I'm just being very clear. AP is gone. AP is cooked. It is collapsing left, right and center. And that is after leaving of Francois Ben-in-ois, which was the, I would say the best leader in the last 10 years. It really represented his network. The Travis Scott was one of the best watches AP is done. It went viral, became mainstream. The impact of AP is gigantic. But the last, I don't remember anything that AP has done the last fucking couple of years, mate. I don't. I don't. So, yeah, see i am going to sell my gold apie i don't want to like i just don't breadling how am i rating how am i rating them your own criteria my own criteria yeah bretling is getting there it's

Starting point is 01:52:54 working on there c there c tier it's getting there it's going there carche makes an impact unbelievable cult following do things right it is what it is a tier casio a tier it says what it does on in done. F.P. Journe, I was wrong with F.P. Journ, and I'm the first one admitted it. I was wrong. How are you wrong? I thought it would drop because Francois is quite a, Francois, Paul Jureen is quite of a rocket. Bist off a lot of collectors throughout the years by his behavior, et cetera. And I thought that it would negatively impact the watch brand. I was wrong. I'm the first one to admit it. And I think it's hands down one of the most insane watch brands out there a tier grand sico great watches great watches it's just the people that buy them it's just absolutely embarrassing but watch brand

Starting point is 01:53:52 great watches b tier i'm rating grand sico above ab just clarify yeah it's just and i want you i really want this is really important there's not a rolex owner that is ever worried about grand sico But every Grand C-Go owner is saying that Rolex is that their watches better than Rolex. It is just F-Mosor. Cool watches. Streamliner is cool. I would say I can't. I rather, do I rather have a Mozer than an AP?

Starting point is 01:54:30 No, same. C-tier. F-Tere Hubello. I-W-C F-Tier. Jacobico, F-Tier. Gisler called B-Tier. Omega. Lovely, lovely, cool.

Starting point is 01:54:43 C Panei F Pentec Philippe A tier Richard Reischard Mill A tier Rolex

Starting point is 01:54:55 S tier industry wouldn't be here today without Rolex Rolex. Like Rolex has defined something that no other brand has been able to succeed is making the process

Starting point is 01:55:11 the luxury aspect rather than the product is the biggest marketing tool in the world. It is the biggest brand of them all. They're the king. There's the reason. They're the king. Seiko, really good. B. Swatch. Really good. I love swatch. It adds so much value to the industry. A tier. Tissot, value for money, Hans Dyer. Tissot P.RX, one of the best watches out there for the money, B

Starting point is 01:55:39 tier. Like it. Tudor, A tier. Love the new releases. Farserong Konstantin C tier. Zenith. D. tier. I like that. Good list. Cool. Did it make sense by criteria? Did it make sense? It does. Yeah. We have one more for you. This right here is a specific watch tier list. But these watches exactly as you would.

Starting point is 01:56:06 What are the best? What are the worst? All right. I'm going to start with Jacob and Cole's F tier. Absolute rubbish. Apple Watch, I think it made a big impact on the industry. I don't like. It's not my gig. And I also think we're all over-connected, by the way. I think people shouldn't wear an Apple Watch for a daily stuff. If it's for sports, it's fine. I rate that. If for health, it's fine.

Starting point is 01:56:29 And I want my mom and dad. I want my mom to have an Apple Watch. If she falls really functional is a watch. It's not really a watch. Uh, deep, but it's, it has created so many risks, which is really important. AP Royal Oak, one of the most important watch in the industry, mate. Hans Dynne. S.

Starting point is 01:56:47 There is. It changed the industry. It saved the industry. It saved the industry. Hublo Big Bang, F tier, reshot meal, Army 1103. B tear nowadays. If you asked me that last year,

Starting point is 01:56:59 I would say A tier, like, but be a tier today. Casio F91W. Best watch failure for money. It's from Osama to Obama. It was functional in every way, shape, or form.

Starting point is 01:57:12 Osama used it to detonate bombs, and Obama used it as his main watch. From Osama to Obama. the F-91W is the best watch in the world. Bam. The Kazi Oak, really cool. Love that watch, 8 tier. Done.

Starting point is 01:57:27 Protect Philippe Nautilus. Yes, lovely. I own several of them. Cool, very cool. Still rated below it. Sorry, I can't. This is really, like, I'm not,

Starting point is 01:57:42 there's not many people that will raid a Royal Oak above an Autolus, but the Royal Oak was before the Nautilus. And it was the reason, by the Swiss one. Anyway, Eelang and Seine a datograph. Great watch, one of the best chronographs out there. If it's the platinum model, it depends on the materials, of course. I owned that datograph.

Starting point is 01:58:01 My problem with Eelong and Seine is the service. It's one of the worst service in the entire industry. They don't care. They will not look after you. So, and I've experienced that several times firsthand. So for me, C-Tier, Cartier Santos, one of the most important watches in the world. I rate that a B.

Starting point is 01:58:23 That's not bad. It's middle crying. You see what I mean? It's not bad. Speedmaster. B, class, good. Submarner B. Perfect.

Starting point is 01:58:30 Same, same rain. Snowflake, nice watch. But it's a Grand Seco. And it's not better than a Rolex. So I'd put that below a Rolex. PRX, hands down, one of the best value for money watches out there. Don made a big impact, A tier. Twitter, Black Bay.

Starting point is 01:58:48 on the Jubilee bracelet, A tier. No. Yeah, I would rate a Rolex Submarner above a tutor, but it's just so positioned so well. So don't get me wrong,

Starting point is 01:59:00 it's positioned so well. Like, there's several ways to rate this. I rate this my criteria. And you know, fuck it. I don't care. It's my watch, my rating.

Starting point is 01:59:10 So after doing that, I want you to review my watch collection. I brought every single watch that I have and it's available for members. So if you sign up as a member on the channel, you'll get the full video on this. Get fucking subscribe and I. Show some love of support, will you?

Starting point is 01:59:26 Well, we are going to have you review Graham's entire collection for members only, but also we'll also end the podcast right here. Thank you guys. So much for joining the ice coffee out. Thank you guys for watching. If you made it to the end, you're a real one.

Starting point is 01:59:39 Seriously. You're a real one. We would not be here. Yeah. And if you become a member, he's going to give you one of his watches. One of his fake watches. One of his many fake watches.

Starting point is 01:59:46 Yeah. Thank you for coming. on the podcast. Thanks, man. Do it, you do it. Don't. Let me think about it. Let me think about it.

Starting point is 01:59:53 Do you want me to give you money? No, no, no, no. Please, actually don't. Don't give them money. I would hate for you, do that. No, stop. Don't know. Just like scraming.

Starting point is 02:00:01 Thank you guys so much watching. Until next time. See it.

The Iced Coffee Hour - Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

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