The Indicator from Planet Money - Moochers, monopolists and market-based poverty help

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Public sector economics is a fundamental piece of the discipline. So we wanted to give our hosts an opportunity to put their knowledge to the test in a game we’re calling Indicator Quizbowl. Today on the show, Wailin and Darian go head to head to see who the bigger public policy nerd is.Related episodes: Could cash payments ease recessions?A trap-loving DJ takes on economicsFor sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

NPR. This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods. I'm Waylon Wong. And I'm Adrienne Ma. We take a little pride in having our econ nerd credentials. And every once in a while, we think, why not put these credentials to the test by having a little competition, a little friendly competition we like to call the Indicator Quiz Bowl. Today on the show, it's a trivia matchup between our own Daryan Woods.

Hello? And Whalen Wong. I'm shadow boxing. You can't tell about. So the way that this will work is I'll ask five questions. Whoever gets the right answer, we'll get a point for that. And the winner will be the person with the most points at the end of the show. Simple enough. Today's indicated quiz bowl topic will be the economics of the public sector,

aka government economics. Oh, does Daryan have an unfair advantage because he's worked in the public sector pre-MPR? But in New Zealand. So does that transfer? We'll find out. Don't you also have a degree in public policy from an American university? Nobody at the Olympics complains that the other person has been training too much. All right.

Let's find out after the break. Okay, Darien and Whalen, here is your first question. Which economic concept describes the situation where individuals benefit from a public good without contributing to its costs? Thus undermining incentives to pay for that good. Free writer. Oh, my God. That is the correct answer. Oh, man.

I'm relieved. You were so fast, Gerrient. My brain was like buffering, buffering. You've got to talk to your internet service provider for that. No, I have to talk to my brain. I'm going fast enough. Free rider is the correct answer. And, you know, in a free market system,

you wouldn't necessarily expect private companies to take up certain services or goods because they could be susceptible to this free rider problem. And that's why, for example, you have government stepping in and doing things like providing for the national defense. Yeah, I mean, it would be hard for, I don't know, a private military to go around every household asking for contributions. Goodness.

I never answer my doorbell ever. Okay, one point for Darien. Next question. The Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 is the foundation of anti-trust. trust policy in the United States. What was the name of the company that was part of a landmark anti-monopoly case in the early 1900s? Standard oil.

Oh, gosh. Got to give that to Darien. Again, the answer was standard oil. What if it was just the lag? Maybe it was a lag. Oh, my gosh. Here's some trivia about standard oil. It was officially declared an illegal monopoly in a landmark 1911 Supreme Court case called

Standard Oil Company of New Jersey versus the U.S. In that case, the court ruled that Standard Oil violated the Sherman Act by restraining trade and commerce in petroleum. And it also established the, quote, rule of reason, antitrust precedent, which still lives on today. Is this covered on the Gilded Age? I haven't watched that show. That is going to be its own episode. Oh, okay. Spin off. Yeah. Question number three.

What do you call a market intervention that levied? a tax on a market transaction that creates a negative externality born by individuals not directly involved in the transaction. Perguvia tax. That is the correct answer. Oh, my gosh. You said it's so fascinating to mean hear the answer. Pigouvian tax.

Pigouvian tax. Okay, I think that I would not have been able to come up with you and with more time. I'm Dr. Arthur Cecil Pigoo, Cambridge Economist. Stop showing up. I'm sorry. I'm the most hated quiz contestant. No, I love it. actually. I love it. That is three for three for Darian.

This is my revenge for the movie trivia. Whalen just sweat the floor. So that is the correct answer. Some examples of Pigouvian taxes include things like carbon taxes, taxes on tobacco, or the plastic bag tax at your local grocery store. Send your complaints to Arthur Cecil Pigou in Cambridge about 100 years ago. Yeah, it's going to say via psychic medium. Yeah.

So does that mean I've won the majority of the five questions? Well, Darian, I'm just here for the learning. So if you just want to make it about points, I guess we can do that. But I'd like to keep going. All right. Let's go for more education. Yes. I think that sounds fair.

Darian is technically one of the majority of the points. But there are the reasons to play trivia, and not all of them are about points. Some of them are trivial. Some of it is about salvaging my dignity, if I can get one of these next two questions. Question number four. What's the term for the built-in budget mechanism that can adjust federal spending and taxation during an economic downturn to keep the economy afloat without the need for additional legislation? Automatic stabilizers. That's correct.

Oh, my gosh. And I did a whole episode of automatic stabilizers. And I listened to that in my preparation. Oh, my gosh. Jerry. I've been training for this my whole life. Clearly. Some government programs with automatic stabilizers include unemployment insurance,

the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Program, also known as SNAP, and also Medicaid. So these benefits are boosted during times of recession where incomes fall, and the opposite happens when the economy is experiencing a boom. Right. Less people are on SNAP because more people are employed, and lays less need. And I had done this episode about how some economists want to have like national or statewide baby bonds programs that would also potentially kick in in, you know, follower economic times. Well, clearly on that reporting, didn't we have that lot of good here in this show?

If we just pretend the quiz starts now, anything could still happen. Match point for that one point. All right. I'm ready. I'm ready. Okay. Final question. Universal basic income is a policy often associated with the political left. But free market economist Milton Friedman in the 1960s advocated for a more free market version of this that became influential among some on both the left and the right.

So what was that alternative? Negative income tax. That is correct. Oh, my goodness gracious. I like this game. So a negative income tax, as Milton Friedman envisioned it, would essentially have the government provide individuals below a certain income with money. The structure he had in mind made it so people who work made more money than people who

received just the negative income tax benefit. And he also believed that this system would essentially replace all welfare programs in the U.S. someday. Bold. And actually, the earned income tax credit is not too dissimilar. It's different, but it's the same idea that when you, you... earn below a certain amount of money, you'll get some money from the government. Okay, well, Daring gets a bonus point for extra learning. Now the score is six to zero.

Well, did you know the answer? No, I don't, I think I would have needed like a little bit more time to think. You know, Daryon has all these facts at his fingertips and I need to like sit here and, you know, let the organ grinder monkey in my head move around a little bit more. I did know the standard oil one right away, but Daryland was faster. In any case, let's not take away Darian's well-earned win here. Yes, yes, and let's not dwell on the past,

shall we? Darian Woods, five out of five on this indicator quiz bowl, that makes you the reigning champ for today. Yep, I want to thank all my economics and public policy tutors and my wonderful colleagues who've taught me

a lot of what I know today. I need to go back and listen to our back catalog more. Listeners, I hope you enjoyed playing along. Tell us how you did and what you think about the Indicator Quiz Bowl by sending us an email, indicator at npr.org. Or if you're listening on Spotify, leave us a comment. From the Indicator team, happy Thanksgiving.

We'll see you on Monday. This episode was produced by Corey Bridges with engineering by Quasi Lee. It was fact-acted by Sierra Juarez. Cake and Canada edits the show and The Indicator is a production of NPR.