The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan - Being cheated on and the green-eyed monster, jealousy

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Why do we shy away from messy emotions? Meg and Ruby get into the nitty gritty of jealousy - an emotion that’s often labelled as “ugly” or “shameful”.  Meg and Ruby talk about their experiences of being cheated on and how that can impact feeling jealous in relationships. “Mystic Meg” even had a dream about being cheated on which turned out to be true! Ruby opens up about jealousy in non-monogamous relationships and together they chat about ways of communicating jealousy to other people in a constructive way. Healthy stuff!  Do you experience jealousy in relationships? Have you found a good way of communicating how you’re feeling? Get in touch and let us know! Email the podcast: [e-mail] Ruby on socials: @rubyrare Follow Megan on socials @meganbartonhanson_Ruby and Meg’s recommendations:Ruby’s new book - The Non-Monogamy Playbook, which has chapters on jealousy and constructive conversation: https://lnk.to/thenonmonogamyplaybook The Jealousy Workbook by Kathy LabriolaThe Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan is a Mags Creative and Dear Media production Producer and Content Editor for Mags Creative: Christy Callaway-GaleEditor and Engineer: Beautiful Strangers, Podcast HouseExecutive Producers for Mags Creative: Faith Russell and Kit MilsomThis podcast contains adult themes that are not suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I'm Lauren and I'm Ashley and this guys is Nip Tuck Pod. We are your girl chat. We say the things you want to hear, the things that you're thinking but you don't want to say out loud and we're all about being strong aspirational women who basically don't give a... Lauren anyway if you want unfiltered chat, amazing beauty and product recommendations then look no further guys. This is the podcast where you will get all of the girly chat. The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Every relationship I've had, I've been cheated on.

So I thought maybe that's why I'm so jealous. That's a lot, babe. Hey lovelies, you are listening to The Inns and Outs with me, Ruby Rare. And me, Megan Barton Hanson. So I have a question for you, which I have got a bit spicy with someone before when this has happened to me. But I just wondered where you stood on it. Like, if you're hooking up with someone, they come over,

you know what the drill is. But like, do you think it's bad if they leave or like, I feel like if you discuss it before and I'm aware that, okay, you're coming around, we're going to hook up and then you're going to go, I'm mentally prepared. Whereas if we hook up and I'm like, after I'm just want to be like, oh, snuggle me. And then I, oh, I've got me in tomorrow, babe. And I'm like, what? Because I think even if you've got a meeting, we just had like banging sex. I'm trying to spoon you like where are you off to? Just get up an hour early. I think I've changed my tune in the last couple years because I was probably more like you with that and like actually if we're hooking up let's make it like a whole thing. As I've got a

bit older I'm very protective over my sleep and my time and especially if people are coming over to me a lot of the time my preference is me sleeping on my own. Also like a lot of my mates who I hook up with will like live around the corner from me so it's not like a big travel issue situation if it's like a 10-15 minute walk back home. I think everyone I'm sleeping with at the minute there's like an understanding with that of being like, yeah, that's okay. There was someone a couple months ago where I was like, I actually really wanted them to stay over and then you turn into like a little puppy person going like, oh please, but no, cool, that's fine fine don't worry about it totally fine I didn't even care anyway whatever so yeah generally like saying it a bit before so

it's not red like post sex because do you think it seems more offensive if they just like spring it on you for me I find it more offensive if they haven't like discussed it prior and then like you have sex and then just like anyway I gotta go bye yeah well then you run run the risk of like feeling like you're being used a bit or like being a bit more disposable which I don't love but genuinely for me now it is about like I don't sleep very well next to other people unless I know them a bit better so if it's like a casual thing and we have great sex, but then they stay over and it means that I barely sleep, then that's fucked my next day. I don't want to do that.

It's kind of... Yeah. It's not worth the fun part. Am I still getting my eight hours in? That's crazy though, because I feel I've gone the other way. I think when I was younger, I was more ruthless and I'd be like, is sex is what it is? Are you going now? Like, as I've got older, I'm getting so soft.

It's scary. Being soft is nice. Yeah, but I'm not trying to'm getting so soft. It's scary. Being soft is nice. Yeah, but I'm not trying to beg the guy like when he's off. Just want my cuddle. Okay, well, maybe you can work on that, but I think it's alright just chatting beforehand. Right, shall we crack on with today's episode? Let's dive into it.

Yeah, today we are going to be chatting about the ins and outs of jealousy. The green-eyed monster's here. This is the moment where I become a massive fucking nerd because I also really like Shakespeare and that's where the green-eyed monster comes from. No way, Shakespeare? Yeah, Othello, which is one of my favorite plays of his, is a whole play about jealousy and like people manipulating others through jealousy and kind of being driven mad by jealousy and so they call it it's like beware the green-eyed monster I should know the full quote but I don't I'm not as much of a Shakespeare stan as I thought I was guys sorry but

hot topic jealousy also here I am plugging my little book again not little it's great but there's a whole chapter on jealousy in the non-monogamy playbook, which comes out in a couple of weeks. If you like what we're talking about, please pre-order the book. I feel excited but nervous about it. So yeah, I kind of wanted to bring this topic to you this week to chat a bit about the stuff I was writing about, but also just contextualize jealousy in our lives, because I don't think it's something we talk about honestly very often.

No, I feel like it's kind of like a shameful thing to say you're jealous. I feel like for ages, I would never admit that I'm a jealous person, but I think now, my big old age of 30, I have to just come to terms with the fact I am very jealous. Yeah. And I just wonder where that comes from. I think so often in monogamy we're taught that ownership and possession is an essential part of relationships and of love.

And so if your perceived possession of a person or their affection is challenged by someone else or in like a different context or environment it's no wonder that that's where our emotions can go to of feeling that jealousy. I guess in my life and my work I've tried to like question that and dismantle that a bit more and that's been like a long long process you know like a decade in the making but I think I probably have a quite a different relationship to jealousy to most other people and definitely to like, compared to how I used to be.

Which feels nice. I think over the years, I've worked really hard to be less scared of jealousy. Cause I think that's like the fear of it is actually the thing that like makes us go a bit crazy and act irrationally and harm other people and harm ourselves rather than just being able to look at uncomfortable feelings and be like, oh wow, I feel jealous right now.

I feel insecure right now. And like allowing ourselves to sit with that a bit more. Yeah, take ownership of that feeling and be like, oh, okay. I think it's like a few episodes ago, the non monogamy episode. And I was like, I couldn't think of anything worse than seeing someone I'm in love with do bits with someone else. And he was like, there's not like one like, pool of like love or like affection or whatever, just because someone is giving it to someone else, he can still give it to you as well. And that's really shifted my whole mentality around that. Just that one sentence has changed the way I look at it,

but still deep rooted from a child. I'm so jealous. Well, we're taught that. I think it's really, there's been studies, a few different ones, but there was one from the early noughties that tested jealousy in infancy. And so like six month year old babies, like when they were noticing a parent playing with like, I think it was like a doll, if the baby was perceiving the parent playing with like another

baby, they would show signs of jealousy. But again, I don't know if that if we should be calling that jealousy, but it's like insecurity or uncertainty of being like, oh, you're doing that thing with something else. And like, all of all of these feelings whittled down, tap into a lot of like, very vulnerable stuff in us of like, the fear of change, the fear of being out of control in a situation, the fear of like rejection or feeling unloved or feeling replaced. And so many of us, I think all of us, have experiences of those throughout our childhood and our adult lives. And so whenever we get into those moments of uncertainty or challenge, it's no wonder that we respond in a way that feels really shit.

I can't believe you said at six months like a baby knows like oh my mom's playing with another baby or like giving attention to another like human looking thing. Do you reckon that is like maybe it's I thought oh it's just like taught behaviors from society because they like preach monogamy and like you should have one partner maybe that's why I like get possessive or jealous. But then as a six month old, you don't know that maybe it's like a survival thing. It's like if my mom's giving attention to another human, then she's not giving it to me. But then also it's like, for me, that feeling isn't a bad thing. It's about then how you

soothe yourself or others soothe you to process through that. So you'd hope that with like a baby there might be those feelings but then the mum would come along and give them a hug and be like hey I was over there doing that but I'm also here now like I'm not going anywhere and like we can have a bit of separation and that can feel uncertain but also I can come back and in the same way as grown-ups like I get really frustrated by how we have to wash everything over by being really positive and we're scared of the messy, scary, ugly emotions and they exist in the world. The truth I guess yeah like we want to skim over the truth and make it all picture perfect. Yeah, there's one of my favorite writers,

Cathy Labriola, who has written this amazing book called The Jealousy Workbook, and that was really helpful for me when I was writing my chapter on jealousy. She identifies the three big emotions that sit underneath jealousy. So there's the soft version and then the most extreme version of it. So it's like fear and its most extreme

terror, anger into rage and sadness into despair. And so when we are feeling jealous we might have more prominent aspects of any of those three that come up for us. But all of those are inevitable feelings in our lives and to like, try and pretend to like squash them down and think about like overcoming them, not, not engaging with them at all. Like not feeling jealous. To me, that's not the point. It's like how you ride them out.

Yeah, I guess. Or like how you said, like maybe you might feel a little bit rejected or you might feel like someone's like giving their attention to someone else, but it's like how you like sit with that, rather than pretending it's never going to happen, because it is inevitable, I guess. And also trying to catch yourself before you start to have a more volatile reaction. And spiral and then just like do something. Yeah, and either spiral yourself or like that gets pushed outwards in like a way that can

be you know unpleasant but also can be harmful and dangerous. Like feeling jealous does not mean you get to harm someone else. Like that's not, we have to be, we have to put our big girl pants on and like sit with our emotions and sit with the uncomfortable stuff but like that doesn't mean you're allowed to be unpleasant, like nasty or violent to other people. Of course, and I do think it is like more inner work rather than like reacting in a way of like being aggressive or nasty because you feel a certain way. You need to like reflect on yourself,

and be like, why is it hurting me so bad? I go through phases like everything, like mental health, confidence, self-esteem. When I'm like really feeling myself, the jealousy levels are like minimal. When I'm like struggling in other aspects of my life, I then turn into like a little girl and I'm so needy. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, like pay me attention, do this. Yeah, yeah. And I really like what you're saying there because it is, none of this just exists in itself. Like if you are feeling extra

jealous or insecure, it's probably speaking to other things going on in your life. It's not just that one situation. It's like, okay, how are you, if we're talking about this in like a romantic relationship, where's the trust and communication at in that relationship? And if there's stuff that's missing or, you know, like gaps in people's knowledge, like for me, the moments where I'm, I feel the most jealousy is when I have less information. And so my brain can fill it in with like worst case scenario, really like whatever stuff.

And I can kind of literally feel myself like losing control and like creating this fictional world of being like, oh my God, well that person, like, they have a crush on that person and that means they're gonna like fall in love and leave me and they'll run off into the sunset and I'll just be like abandoned and like hurt forever. And actually by having chats and like voicing my feelings, and being able to articulate why I might feel that bit more insecure or uncertain and asking for reassurance or support

from my loved ones. It doesn't get rid of the emotions, but it stops them being so scary. Yeah, I bet it like, if they're at 100, once you vocalised it and said and got that off your chest, it's freeing and it's probably only at like a 50. Yeah. Still there, but it's not as bad. And also we're taught to feel these emotions, but also taught to feel shame about them. So I offer, like, if I do feel jealous, then I'm, there's another like layer on top of it of me going, fuck, I shouldn't feel jealous, especially because I'm non-monogamous.

And in theory, what that means is I'm meant to be amazing at never feeling jealous and being amazing at communicating and handling my emotions. So I can almost put more pressure on myself in a moment like that by trying to pretend that I'm not experiencing the emotions I'm experiencing. No, I hear you. So just again, like more transparency within yourself of going like, God, I feel like a hot mess right now. What's going on? And you're allowed to, just because that's your like, how you prefer to date is like non-monogamous, just because you've committed to that and that's what you're into.

You're still a human. You're still going to have the feelings of jealousy, insecurity, being a bit needy sometimes. So I think we're just hard on ourselves. But I was going to say, did you have to train yourself when you first thought, okay, I don't want a monogamous relationship. I want to date other people. How did you be not jealous? Because for me, I know it's the most infuri people. Like how did you be like not jealous? Because for me, I know it's like the most infuriating question for you, but like do you

not compare? Because I think for me a lot of it does come down to comparison. Even with like, if I date someone and they'll be like talking a lot about their ex, I've then researched them, I've looked them up on Instagram and like they're like the polar opposite to me so like why do you like me for and it's so like fucked isn't it really it is but we do have to look at it like we have to be honest with that because those thoughts creep in for me as well even now the the most useful shift in my mind with all of that was like this little mantra of like, not better or worse, just different. Yeah. And actually, all of us being different is a really special, wonderful thing. Like, it would be fucking boring if we were all the same. It would be boring if like, someone you

were dating, like all of their exes were exactly like you. That would like, you know, we do, we want like variety and different experiences in our lives. And so that helps me like deescalate the panicked feelings of being like, oh my god, well they're dating that person and they're really sporty and I'm shit at sports and like, you know, whatever. Like I get really insecure about languages because like dyslexic babe over here, I've just about grasped English. Like there's no hope for me with any other language. Like I'm just terrible. And I've had exes of mine before but also like their partners who speak multiple languages and it makes me

feel really insecure and really stupid. Being like oh my god okay she speaks like Spanish and Italian and I'm just here being like ciao, ola. And that's just who she is. And why is it on me to like, put myself down comparing us? Because I have stuff that she probably might feel insecure about. And like, what if we just allowed ourselves to not beat ourselves up and punish ourselves by being different humans? Exactly. Or compare. Like you said, I was going to say that to you. Like, yeah, you might not be able to speak like five different languages, but all the qualities you do have, she wouldn't possess any of them.

So it's just like swings and roundabouts, I guess. Yeah. And yeah. And then I think for me, when you're dating multiple people and your partners are also dating multiple people, it's good to have my own personal experiences reinforce the fact that I am a person who can feel attraction for multiple people. And actually, the feelings I have for more than one person

doesn't diminish it for others. It almost enriches all of those different interactions and attractions. And so when I'm feeling that in myself, it becomes easier to believe that in other people. Yeah, obviously when you're dating multiple people, do they get jealous of each other or do you not speak to them about each other? We do. I'm pretty transparent and to greater greater and lesser degrees, like everyone's kind of each relationship's different in terms of preferences with that. It is hard navigating someone else's jealousy

because there is a lot of reassurance for me to do and like supporting them and understanding how they like to be reassured and looked after in those moments. But also, and I don't want to say this in like a harsh way, like our emotions are largely our responsibility. Yeah. And that's not, if someone's acting like a fucking dick and you're feeling jealous or really upset because of it, that's not, that's not me being like sorry hun, that's just on you, you need to sort that out. But like, I can support someone when they are feeling jealous or fearful or insecure, but it's not my job to solve that problem.

No, that's a them, they've got to do the internal work. And I guess it's easy to jump into like a savior way of being like, oh, help, I'll sort this out, like, you know, getting back into classic people pleasing stuff. And instead being like, oh, you, I'll sort this out, like, you know, getting back into classic people pleasing stuff. And instead being like, Oh, you're sitting with some really big heavy emotions. I'm going to walk alongside you. But your your emotions are yours. And you've got to steer this ship. And I'm just like, cheerleading and supporting you. And that can be a difficult thing to uphold. And I think for some people that can then get read

as being really like callous and not caring at all. No, I think I'm like, I make you right. Like you can support someone and say, look, you don't need to be insecure. You don't need to be jealous. I love you. Like this is like our vibe. And be mindful and like change a bit of your behavior.

If you're like, oh, okay, the way that you can, if I communicate things, I'm learning more about the ways that you tend to respond best to that or whatever it might be. It's tough. It's hard. And I've had it before. So I just love like stories. I think it's funny. So I would share with like new partners, like old like mishaps, sex stories that went wrong, like funny things. And like some guys like pull me up and they're like, babe, I don't want to hear about like some guy who was fucking six months ago. I'm like the whole concept of me telling you that story wasn't

to be like let me make you jealous because I was fucking this person. It's like it's a funny story but sex was like a part of it but the men don't take it like that. They take it like why are you trying to tell me that you fuck this guy? But then that comes straight back to all of the like possessiveness and ownership in relationships of like, why when you start a new relationship with someone is any understanding that you have previously slept with other people and been in relationships with other people, why should that freak someone out? Like I get it.

It's gonna have happened. Exactly. It's like we don't, why do we have to like pretend again that we're like these virginal beings with like no history and no past. I think there's a lot of wider stuff around really shedding ownership over other people's bodies, desires, agency in relationships. Because even when you are in a relationship with someone, you are still two individual people. You are putting a lot of trust into people and it's really shit

when trust gets broken or challenged. Like if you have experienced someone cheating on you or like another kind of form of betrayal, I don't want any of this to diminish, to downplay how significant that can be and how that does make these environments more challenging. If you've been really burnt in the past, especially if you've been jealous and those feelings haven't been allowed to be as present, if someone's kind of dismissed them or said that you're not allowed to feel that way, it can mean it's a lot harder when those feelings come up again. If you're like, oh, my past experiences have taught me that this is a bad feeling. Or like when I show this to someone else, it goes wrong because it doesn't get

like seen and heard in the way that I might want it to. Yeah, they'll just like shut you down. If you're being vulnerable enough to say to someone, I am feeling jealous and feeling insecure, whatever it is, and they just shut that down and be like, well, that's a you issue. I feel like as a part, if someone comes to me and said that, I'd reassure them and be like, no, obviously, like, I'm in love with you because X, Y, Z, I wouldn't be like, why are you feeling that way? Yeah. So no, it does make sense. But I always thought, like I said earlier, a lot of it was because

of life situations that I've been cheated on. Every relationship I've had, a lot of it was because of life situations. I've been cheated on every relationship I've had. I've been cheated on. So I thought maybe that's why I'm so jealous. That's a lot babe. Yeah, it was great. We've only had like three long ones, but every single one. Yeah, they've all cheated.

That has that has like a big significant impact. I've been cheated on. Really? Yeah, but like I was about to immediately dismiss it being like, yeah, but not like in a bad way. Yeah, it was shit. Like, but also I've had relationships where that hasn't happened.

And I've been able to like be honest about the insecurities I have because of past experiences and have people listen and like work through them with me. How lovely. But actually if there's a pattern of that, it's really hard to not emotionally run with that when they're the experiences that you've had so far in life. Or just think the worst.

Like, this is crazy, right? And people will probably think, like, if you're listening, you're probably thinking, oh, this is made up. But it was my first relationship. I must've been like 17, 18. And there was this girl at the gym and I would always like train at the gym with my boyfriend who would always like look at this girl

and they'd have like, you know, you can just tell energies. There was something. So I went to bed, we slept, I had a dream. He was having sex with her. I woke up and I was like, babe, just dreamt. She was like banging that Spanish girl from the gym, are you sure you're not? And he was like, went all weird, like it's the middle of the night and normally like if I woke up and had a nightmare he'd be like, oh babe come here, like don't be silly, it's just a dream. Was mute. I was like, hmm. Then anyway I broke up with with him of my own choice, but it came out later.

He was fucking her the whole time. Have you ever had that? Mystic Meg. Literally. Have you ever had that with a partner? I have. I had an ex of mine who, we are now friends and he is lovely, but I think he will also say that he fucked it in sometimes when we were together.

Love that he owns that though. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's taken a long, we didn't speak for like five years. And we've only we're like friendly now, which is really nice. Like, that's amazing to have moved through all of that. But yeah, early on, he was always quite jealous of a friendship I had with a guy. Where if I'm honest, I did have a bit of a crush on him, but we were monogamous and like that was never going to happen. But then there was someone that he was friends with, my boyfriend at the time.

And I had like a weird inkling feeling and it always got shut down and it always got denied. And then later on found out that there were like big feelings between the two of them. I don't think anything actually happened ever. Mm. But it was like, you kept saying no, like you shut that down all the time and it was fucking true. And that's like sneaky. It's not okay. That's like not full gaslighty stuff, but it's bordering on that of being like to like keep shutting down those things.

It's mean. It's no wonder that that's like, to like keep shutting down those things. It's me. It's no wonder that that's like, I maybe went a bit mad with it because actually there was something there that I was noticing but it wasn't allowed to be spoken about. Yeah, that's so mean. Like don't you think? We were very young. We're older and wiser now.

I think there's a lot that we've forgiven each other for. That's so nice, because I think that as well, like even these people that have cheated on me, I have the same with like an ex from like 15 years ago. I'd say he's like one of my like best friends and he would always say like, that's the biggest mistake I ever made, but it's like, I don't want to throw away all them like memories and feelings, I still love him, I still love his sense of humor. Just think I'll never fuck with you again because you can't be trusted, you little shit.

But I do love him as a person. So I think it's nice to have exes that you still speak to. Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably a future episode. Did our favorite rom-coms we adored growing up totally warp our ideas around love, relationships, dating, and sex? Spoiler alert, they sure did. And we're here to unpack the mess with a feminist twist.

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help us. Like how are you gonna bring this up without acting like, I don't know, super insecure I guess, or just like letting your wall down and saying I am a bit jealous. Yeah, well I don't think it's an opt-in. I think it's a very smart thing to do. And I would encourage being just more like emotional honesty and communication and relationships. There's loads in my book. Sorry, I know I keep saying that right now, but it's true. So there's like a whole chapter on jealousy, but the chapter following that is all about constructive communication. Because again, we're not really taught. It's easy to say like communicate, but actually what that looks like is hard.

Whenever you're entering kind of difficult conversations, I think about the way I sandwich information at the beginning of them. So first of all, like checking that someone's actually in a good place where they can have this conversation, because just springing stuff on people rarely works. Like you need to be consensual with the way that we initiate conversations in a similar way that with sex, you wouldn't just like spring that on. It's like, hey, are we in the right headspace? What's this going to look like?

Have we got enough time? Have we got enough energy? All of that kind of stuff. So checking with that and then kind of prefacing being like, there's something I want to talk to you about and I feel X about speaking about this. So just from the very beginning going, I feel nervous bringing this up because I don't want you to think that I'm, I'm worried that you think you're going to think I'm overreacting or I'm worried that you're going to maybe take this the wrong way or read me as like needy and I don't want to come across like that. Whatever it is, just being really honest about what your fears are in that moment.

Yeah. And then diving in and being like, this is the thing. And like, can we talk about it together? How does that feel? Because it's really sometimes in conversations when we have big stuff to say, we go in with high expectations of how it should be received. And you can't control that. You can't control how someone else is going to hold your stuff. But you can control how you like initiate and set up that conversation. And maybe if it's something a bit more difficult, or someone reacts badly in the first instance, you need a bit of time to cool down and then revisit.

A lot of the time these things are not just one conversation, but they're a series of conversations. But just not being afraid to voice if you're feeling jealous, being able to name it and then maybe thinking a bit about why that might be, where it comes from. So it doesn't get read as like an attack on that person. For you, for example, being like, I can really jump to jealousy a lot of the time and it's because of these experiences in my past or like actually right now I'm feeling really insecure

about this other thing and I think that's having an impact on my self-esteem and how I'm feeling and like dating whatever it might be you know all emotional conversations are like putting a puzzle together of our lives and like figuring out where everything's coming from and I think it takes you have to exercise that it's not something that just like comes naturally but over time being less afraid of initiating these conversations, you do get better at being in the rhythm of them, of like sharing vulnerable shit, hearing vulnerable shit.

Yeah. And I think the way you're saying it is like to check in with someone before if like, it needs to be like a time and a place that you're saying that you can't just like blur it out because in past relationships, I've had guys and they'll be like, fine like fine the whole time and then they'll like have a few drinks on a night out and all this stuff that they're holding it and it comes out and they're like I can't believe you do only fans like my friends could go on there and see you or I don't just like different things and like where has this come from sir so maybe that's because we're very British and we're not very good at talking about our feelings unless we've had a few drinks. And that isn't great, guys. I think we should really try and it's such like the nation just needs to sort its shit out with that because we're

really bad at it. But I think that's a great like takeaway is like saying to the person like, I want to speak to you about something like pretty heavy, like, have you got like time to speak about this? Are you ready to, and then diving into it rather than on a whim being pissed and just like ranting and raving. You're not even making like any sense at this point. Because you've held it in for so long.

That's being a little kid and having a tantrum. And like we all have that in us, but it's a much, you are so much more likely to have a constructive conversation if you're not reacting to something or feeling resentful and building things up inside and then you blurt it out or waiting until you get pissed and then things spilling out. We have a responsibility to approach all of this with a lot of care for ourselves but

also the other people around us. Yeah. Dipping into the little jealousy world, is it feeling slightly less scary now? No, it really is. And I think what you said, which I'm really gonna take away, is like the fault of the jealous feeling is often so much worse than actually feeling it.

If I just go through the motions, feel it, and then say, do you know what? I do feel a bit jealous. I think owning it, wearing it, yeah, and just communicating. Just getting more comfortable with moments of discomfort. Trying not to go into full like panic mode whenever moments of discomfort come up. For sure. Easier said than done, but a nice thing to like start exercising.

So babe, do you have any recommendations where you can watch, read, listen to things about jealousy if you want to dive into it a bit more? Yeah, the jealousy workbook, which is by Cathy Labriola is great. I really recommend that. And I'm going to plug my book again. Am I allowed to do it? Yes, I have to. So the non-monogamy playbook comes out in a couple of weeks. You can pre-order it, we'll put the links in the show notes. There's a chapter specifically about jealousy but there's so much around questioning and unpacking a lot of the norms and expectations we have about relationships. It isn't only for people who are interested in non-monogamy, like I think everyone can genuinely learn like a lot about it.

For sure, I need to go back and read that chapter about four times I think after this conversation. I've read that chapter about four times, I think, after this conversation. And we want to hear you weigh in on this conversation. Like, do you feel jealousy really strongly or not at all? And like, how has this conversation we've had landed with you? If you agree, if you disagree, we're down for that, too. Please send us your thoughts. Our email address is hello at ins and outs pod dot com. So if you love this

episode, please tell your friends, share with your friends, write into us because we really want to bring more people into the ins and outs community and hear all of your stories. Send us in like your crazy ex stories when they're like so jealous. I'm here for the tea. I'm like, let's intellectualize and you're like, I want gossip. I want the gossip and the drama. Right. Well, I want gossip. I want the gossip and the drama. Right, well, until next time. Mwah. Bye. Bye.

Bye.