The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan - I’m on Grindr not Children in Need! With Ash Self

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Ruby and Meg chat to actor, comedian and writer Ash Self (best known for playing Felix in Heartstopper), who debunks the myth that disabled people either can’t have sex or don’t want to. We hear about sex education (or lack of it) in the hospital youth ward where Ash spent some time and how he feels people expect to see him on Children in Need rather than Grindr. Ruby, Meg and Ash also debate whether Love Island is ready for a trans wheelchair user (or even just hairy armpits?!). Ash shares his dating highs - sleeping with another trans person for the first time - and dating lows  - a comically bad sex moment that he swerved, thanks to asthma and his gran! Email the podcast: [e-mail] Ruby on socials: @rubyrare Follow Megan on socials @meganbartonhanson_Follow Ash on socials @smashselfAsh’s recommendations:Disability Intimacy: Essays on Love, Care, and Desire, edited by Alice WongRuby and Meg’s recommendationsHeartstopper TV series (Netflix)The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan is a Mags Creative and Dear Media production Producer and Content Editor for Mags Creative: Christy Callaway-GaleEditor and Engineer: Beautiful Strangers, Podcast HouseExecutive Producers for Mags Creative: Faith Russell and Kit MilsomThis podcast contains adult themes that are not suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I'm Lauren and I'm Ashley and this guys is Nip Tuck Pod. We are your girl chat. We say the things you want to hear, the things that you're thinking but you don't want to say out loud and we're all about being strong aspirational women who basically don't give a... Lauren anyway if you want unfiltered chat, amazing beauty and product recommendations then look no further guys. This is the podcast where you will get all of the girly chat. The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Have we got any bad sex stories, but not like bad bad?

Comically bad? Yeah, I hope they're not listening to this. I was so excited. Faked an asthma attack because I was bored during sex. I love you. Hi babes, welcome back to the ins and outs with me Ruby Rare. And me, Megan Barton Hanson. We're just going to dive straight into it because we've got so much to chat about.

We have the wonderful Ash Self with us today. Hey. Hey. Who is an actor, comedian, writer, any other strings to your bow? Comedian is generous also. To be honest with you. You've just made me laugh.

So I think, call it. So Ash plays the wonderful Felix in heart stopper Do you want to maybe chat a bit about like intro to heart stopper and who you play? Heartstopper is a teen drama, but fluffy like it's not like We're all doing hard class a drugs and having sex in the bathroom So before you got here me and Meg were talking about Heartstopper and I was like, it's so lovely. It's like a little, mostly like really nice utopic world because we grew up watching Skins. Yeah. That was when I was 13. Skins came out. It is like

night and day Skins world and Heartstopper world. Yeah. A lot of teen dramas are like everything sucks. Yeah. We're all going to die. That's so true. Like depression and class age rocks. I feel like with this it touches on like really important topics, but in like a nice way. Which is refreshing. And just so magical to see queer joy and trans joy presented in a format that's for young people, but also obviously lots of adults are watching it and getting loads out of it as well. Yeah, it's crazy to have like multiple trans kids in one show. Who knew that was allowed?

To me that's mind blowing. I feel like there's three of us in a room, everyone might die. Whoa. So you play Felix, do you want to share a little bit about the character? They're sort of quite similar to me, I think, at 16, except with like self-esteem. They're quite self-assured 16 except with like self-esteem. They're quite self-assured so they're non-binary and at this art school basically just there for parties and has no intention of doing any work at any point. If I could go

back and do sixth form again. That sounds fun. A part of me never wants to be a teenager again but also I feel like having a bit of a do-over and being a teenager but just being slightly less of a bit of a do-over and being a teenager but just being slightly less of a dick to myself the whole time would maybe be quite nice and wholesome. So I wonder if you get a version of that like playing that age again. Yeah I think so it's quite like oh I just get to be silly and have fun and wear snazzy knitwear. What a dream. We're living the like awkward teenage years and looking hot while she's doing it. Amazing with the knitwear.

And being paid. You should be getting paid for that. Don't like, don't. I do have to be reminded sometimes. Don't talk down the fee. Like, you're there to do your job, get paid for it. So today we're talking to Ash about the ins and outs of... Sex and disabilities. This is a really important topic and we're very to Ash about the ins and outs of... Sex and disabilities! This is a really important topic and we're very grateful to have you here to chat about it from like professional stuff but also your own personal experiences. Thanks for being here. Anytime.

I guess on the topic of like sex and disability because that's something that you were bringing, like Felix as a character was bringing in a slightly new way. How was all of that held behind the scenes? Yeah, well, I think, I think obviously coming onto the set, like, it's a massive set. I mean, where they film a lot of it is at the school, which is fully wheelchair accessible. But there was like a lot of conversations about like, okay, how do we do this? And, you know, if I said, I can't do this, I need this, then it was covered. Because I've got friends who are like intimacy coordinators in film and TV. But is there, is there a role around disability and access of like advocating on set. I mean, you can ask for, and sometimes they just have them,

access coordinators. So they're trained by usually a group called Triple C. Their job is just to be your point of contact as a disabled artist, whether in front or behind the camera. Triple C? Yeah. Woohoo! Yeah.

Big up. Yeah, keep your plug. Also, do you know what an intimacy coordinator is? Because I said that like it was a given and I now realise that that's just me being in weird work brain. So I feel like if you have sex scenes, they're going to direct you what to do. Is that what it is? Yeah, also please weigh in if you like, I'm sure you have more experience directly.

I've actually never seen a sex scene before. Oh really? Okay. Would you like to? Like to is maybe strong. I phrased that in a dodgy way. I want to do a sex scene so badly. But yeah, do you like, would that? I'm definitely open to it. I would have liked to do Winning Heartstopper because I think the exploration of a trans disabled teenager having sex would have been like crazy to see on screen. Iconic, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But there wasn't room for more sex scenes in the series. It was quite a sexy series.

It was from zero to like four. That was my one criticism of the first two of being like, I know that it's a bit more fluffy but come on guys, like we are also talking about horny teenagers. Can we just, and then I really got what I wanted in this series. Yeah. Yeah. Like in there's obviously the sort of coordinating sex scenes, but it's also advocating between like crew and directors and writers and like an intimacy coordinator coming in and working with actors and understanding their comfort levels and really not like making sure that they genuinely feel good and comfortable in what they're doing.

Oh, because it's not just directing the scene and being like... No, it's all the emotional like behind the scenes stuff as well. That's so nice. I feel like... So I think you legally have to have an intimacy coordinator if there's anything and the actors are under 18. So like kissing. But I think they should be like compulsory in all sets.

It's happening more and more now, but it's so wild when you look at old films and think about like actors just being dropped into their being like, okay, well, so sexy and there'll be like a whole crew around you and just act natural. Just go for it. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's old films where people are just fully having sex on camera. I'm more down for that maybe than I'm like, that's cool. But yeah, intimacy coordinators, definitely. Yeah, a fan. Let's keep pushing that forwards.

Yeah, definitely. What do you think about a lot of the sex and disability, like dating shows that have come up in the last couple of years? So there's been like Love on the Spectrum. That's like the biggest one. And then what was the one that like... The Undateables on Channel 4. The Undateables, the worst name ever. But yeah, what like, how do you feel about them? I just have disabled people on dating shows. Why do you need to separate? That's so weird. Like I don't get it. I do think now there's like more disabled people on dating shows. Like there's a deaf guy on Married at First Sight at the moment.

And then there was Tasha on Love Island who was also deaf. I do think they shy away from people with like autism or people with mobility disabilities or amputees and stuff. Because I don't know why. I think that is actually too much for the public. Would you almost like, I've definitely seen over the last five years, there was that like big wave of body positivity when it's like, we'll allow a slightly chubby person in this ad campaign, because that's like a palatable version of body positivity. Yeah, almost like, I don't know how a TV exec would rate would rank this,

but like palatable disability is now acceptable to have. But actually, if it feels a bit more complex, suddenly it's like panic and we don't want to show that. Yeah, I think that is 100%.% and also they'll always pick like the hottest person. It's like you're allowed to be disabled if you're a 10, otherwise get in the bin. Yeah, we don't want to see you on that TV. That's so fucked up. Hotties only. I mean to be fair that is just a lot of dating shows anyway. Yeah, but I do feel like... Case in point. Times only. Was five years ago, I was a bit hot back then.

Hey love, you're still going strong. No, but I just feel like even what you're saying about like the undateable, it's like what a title, like that's far... Who was in charge of that? Who let that run? I want your email address. I do think that people who make TV just assume that people don't find disabled people fit, which I just don't think is true. I do think that people are more willing to adapt than I think some people who make TV and stuff like that are willing to admit. I do think a wheelchair user

on Love Island would be fun or you know on anything. Want it to be you? I don't know how the Love Island viewing public would respond to me. They can't go straight into trans and wheelchair user. Yeah that's maybe a throw in a lot. If I was on Love Island, a bit chubby and hairy armpits. I think a lot of the British public would not be ready for that in terms of like what the Love Island world is like presented to be. Just a hairy armpit like I think that would maybe cause like genuine scandal.

It's so backwards and like obviously I owe a lot to that TV show for giving me like a platform. And we're not talking shit about like... No but it's facts like you're saying if you was on there and you like didn't shave your armpits, if like obviously you was there with your wheelchair. All I'd done in eight weeks was fuck two guys. I was having death threats if I was going against the grain. Like imagine you not shaving your armpits. People would be collapsing the floor.

Pitchforks. Ow. I also feel like if they did have a wheelchair user on and I stood up, everyone would be like, he's faking. It's like, it's a miracle. I always say to people like, if, like, do you have a car? People are like, yeah. And I'm like, well, why do you have a car if you can walk?

No, well, I can't go as far and quick enough. And I'm like, it's the same thing. I can stand and walk a bit, but not effectively. Not with any urgency. And why do people think that they've got like such a right over like you say like what level of like mobility you have, it's mental. Yeah, yeah it's weird. And what's going on in like your actual real life, you seen anyone if you're comfortable

sharing that with us? Yeah I was, let's say I was seeing someone, that's not even true. No it's the opposite. No, I just sort of go on dating apps when I'm bored. And then... I do think that's relatable. We were discussing this the other day. So I'm on Hinge and I've made so many matches now that they're like,

sorry, you can't make any more matches until you reply to people in your inbox but don't you think it's so annoying? Yeah I think it's days before field says that to me it's like please please reply to people. I'm like no I just want to get to the good part there's date in person do you feel the same? Yeah I can't be bothered with talking for ages it's like if can we go out now because I'm bored and also I will just stop messaging you and do Sudokus. So. We need, okay, once like teleportation is something, I know that it's flawed before I've even started saying it.

I'm already on board. Once humans can teleport, a dating app, where when you match, if you're vibing, you just immediately get teleported together. In a public place. In a public place. It's all safe, but you get like 15 minutes of just being like, hey, are we, is this nice? Rather than doing the chat. And then it gets timed out and you're like, right, teleported back to your life.

If it's awful, you can press a panic button, it just gets you back. You get shooted back, yeah. Oh my god, we need to go on Dragon's Den with this, don't know who's gonna invent teleportation. There's one flaw in this but other than that it's a foolproof plan. That's perfect. Yeah. Because I don't know if you feel the same but we were saying before like you can chat for weeks and small talk for days but until you're physically like in front of that person you can't tell if you've got like that energy or that like sexual vibe. Yeah I always watch catfish and people are like oh we've been messaging for 10 years and I'm like excuse me no I can't message my

best friends if they're not in front of me. Just get bored. Okay well thank you very much for being real about the realities of dating apps because I think all the people who've messaged me on T. We're just pining, waiting, being like, maybe one day Ash will reply. I've got to hire an assistant. A dating assistant, okay. Do my admin. Has like dating stuff changed at all since you've been on Heartstopper?

Because obviously it's such a high profile show. Not hugely. I did get a message on Grindr of all apps saying how I was filming Heartstopper because obviously it's such a high profile show. Not hugely. I did get a message on Grindr of all apps saying, how was filming Heartstopper? That was it's like, there was no hello. It was just how was filming Heartstopper. I was saying block, sorry. You're like, I'm actually on here for different reasons. I don't want to talk about a job right now. That's not like a good opening line.

Is it really? No, hello, how are you is, is preferable. I think. If you could stretch yourself to hi, how are you, that'd be nice. Opening with I know where you work is kind of intense. Kind of intimidating also. I've not had it in a creepy way for a while. Now people are quite good at being like, by the way, just a flag, like I've seen some

of your work before. And that's nice to be like, cool. Also, I'm not pretending that I'm like, I'm just a weird little guy. Like I'm not this big figure or whatever. I'm just a weird little guy, yeah. We're all weird little guys. Yeah. Yeah.

Very much on the little. I'm a small man. Please be nice to me. Is that your dating bio? Yeah. So can we chat a little bit about like myth busting stuff with sex and disability? Because I feel like there's so much bullshit that gets waded around with this. And you've written and spoken about this a fair amount.

Very official. I have a quote. Oh my gosh. I'm going to quote you back to yourself. No one's ever quoted me before. Are you ready? Yeah. I really liked this. So you said, assuming I don't have sex just because I use a wheelchair would be

funny if it wasn't so frustrating. And that feels really deep. Like I like that you can find some of the humor in it, but how, how does disability impact maybe like your sex life, but also just the way it's perceived in the world? Yeah, I do think there's an expectation that like disabled young people, particularly people who have like physical disabilities, either can't have sex or like don't want to, which is just unfathomable. I just have to sit down more. What do you mean? I'm just sitting down.

No sex for you. Yeah. Come on. No. What do you mean? Why would I not? I'm just sitting down. No sex for you. Yeah. Come on, no. Have a lie town. Yeah, so it is sort of funny from the perspective of like, what the fuck are you talking about? But also, like I find especially on dating apps, people message me really odd things,

like offering to like look after me and stuff. It's like, I'm 23. Do you reckon people like fetishise? I can't say that word but do you know what I mean? Yeah hugely yeah. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Because I think they see me as someone that they can like do things for and like and I don't want that. Very odd. Does it sort of infantilise?

I do think that's a lot of the issues with how people view disabled people having sex, is that we're infantilised so much and desexualised so much through kind of media and stuff. I don't know, I think when people see me they kind of expect me to be on a children in need campaign and not Grindr. With like sad lighting and sombre music. Yeah, yeah, okay. And that's not you? No, not anymore. It was for a short period of time. I used to work, like when I used to go into schools and teach relationships in sex ed, I used to do sessions specifically with like young people with physical disabilities, but also with additional needs and intellectual disabilities. And it was really interesting.

I loved working with all of those young people. They were probably some of my favorite sessions. But the teachers and the adults around them was really fascinating holding their discomfort with this. It was so sad, and it was also really insulting that, like, a group of 16-year-olds, because they were living their lives with disability, like, disability as some part of their life,

that they shouldn't have the same level of education as the other 16-year-olds that I was teaching and working with. It gets really bleak because then, actually, if you're not giving young people information about their bodies and about like pleasure as a thing that they might want to experience and how to do that in a way that is safe, it puts a lot of young people in a much greater risk of things going wrong. Yeah, I mean, I spent some time, not very long to be fair, about a month or so in hospital

when I was 17. And it was an adolescent ward that went up to 19. I think it's possibly the only one in the country that goes up that old. And there was a hospital school on the ward. And as far as I'm aware, they didn't teach any sex education at all. It was 14 to 19 year olds. Which is crazy. Yeah. I was only there for a month, but there were some kids who had been there for over a year and really puts them on like the back foot for going into the world, I was only there for a month, but there were some kids who had been there for over a year and really put someone like the back foot for going into the world, I think. Were the kids that you were like hanging out with while you were there, were you having

teenage conversations that involved stuff around like sex and just being a teenager? A ward full of 14 to 19 year olds who are bored, it's just, everyone was an absolute menace. Like, very much so, like, can we go to the pub? Can my boyfriend stay over? Like, yeah, just all the things teenagers would normally be doing and saying, except... Would people hook up on the ward? Like, if they're there for a long period of time? No, the nurses were very much like one person on the bed at a time.

Get out of bed! Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it was, it sounds weird, but it was fun. Fun. Just deliberately caused mayhem. Yeah. It's like little boarding school vibes. Yeah, yeah. It was the run up to Christmas as well. I was making rain days out of bedpans.

Did you still speak to people that you were there with? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Made proper friends. Good. And yeah, I think they all just felt the same. They were like, because of the age, we were still sort of viewed as sick kids. But in reality, I was 17. I was sexually active from 15. I was doing adult things and then, you know, I was sexually active from 15, like I was doing adult things and then, you know, children in need would rock up and be like, the fuck is going on? Like, I'm not a child. I don't want that yellow teddy bear. God, that yellow teddy bear is so patronising.

No, I lifted his eye bandage up once and there's an eye under there. You just concealed it. Scandal! What a fake! But I just thought, why put the eye there? It just felt really pointless. That is not interesting at all. I'd make the difference.

I'm here for it. Scandalous. Also, your expectation for what's interesting on this, we'll chat shit in any direction. Don't worry about that. What do you think needs to change in order for like people with disabilities to be seen as sexual? I think, I think there's a huge public attitude about the viewing someone disabled as like a potential sexual partner is some kind of exploitation or like, I don't want to trivialise, but some people talk about it like it's akin to like paedophilia. So I think not feeling bad

that you find someone disabled attractive, which seems like an obvious thing to say. And also in media, I think hugely, there are examples of like TV show and films where they have disabled people having sex and making mistakes and doing all the stuff, but just not enough at all. Like it's not, there's not enough mainstream content. That's so true. I feel like I've not seen like any show, obviously other than Heartstop, but I've not seen anything where there's like representation of like disabled people being like sexual. At all. have you? In the L word reboot which is called Generation Q which I really liked and I'm sad it didn't I

think it got two or maybe three seasons and then was discontinued but I thought it was great and they included so much more trans representation and also like trans characters where their whole storyline wasn't about being trans that's fun but also disabled trans characters where their whole storyline wasn't about being trans. But also disabled characters where that wasn't a really prominent part of their storyline. There's a really amazing actress called Jillian Mercado and she is a wheelchair user and has a sex scene in I think the second series and it made me, I think I wept watching it, which makes it sound like I'm virtually signalling and I promise I'm not, but like I wasn't expecting it. And it was a really tender, beautiful scene and it was hot.

Like she looked sensational and you could just, I think I felt emotional because you could tell how much care had gone into the making of it and that like everyone in the production recognised how important that was. And I just have so much respect for her for being like, this is important, here I am, I want people to see me as sexual. Yeah, I think Sex Education did it quite well as well, with Isaac's sex scene. I can't remember what series it was in, but it was a fumbly teenage sex scene. He just happened to be in a wheelchair. And I think I watched it and I was like, this is allowed. We're allowed to do this on TV.

Yeah. Sex scenes for Ash. Speaking about sex scenes, would you say they're like standout like sex that you've had and you're like, oh my god, that's like a big iconic moment for me, like I want to recreate that with other people. I don't know, I think the first time I had sex with someone who was also trans, because I wasn't super like conscious of what they might be expecting all the time, if that makes sense, I was sort of like, oh, I can just chill and have fun. Which is not very exciting or gossipy, but yeah.

I both could differ. It's not gossipy, but maybe that's not the right way of phrasing it. That's a really beautiful and powerful moment. Yeah. I think there's a huge link between being trans and having a disability. And I think that when engaging with other trans people, they are more likely to be like, what do you need from me? And what do you want this to go like and stuff like that? Would you say like the difference between like having sex with like another trans person and like a cisgender like straight person, there's just more communication. I've never had sex with a cis straight person,

I've had sex with cis men, like bi and gay men. Yeah I do find it easier to communicate with trans people, I've always found it quite hard to communicate with men for whatever reason. I don't think you're alone in this room thinking that. When you feel more comfortable and at ease around other like trans people, I just just want people and myself also to know what makes you feel more at ease. So we can do that. Do you know what I mean? It removes the level of explaining, I think. Because you're kind of in it together. Yeah. You've gone through the same. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, obviously it's always helpful for people that you're sleeping with to know

I mean, obviously it's always helpful to people that you're sleeping with to know things about your body. I think a lot of times cis people want a lot more information than they need necessarily, like asking how long I've been on testosterone or when I came out or whatever. And I'm like, boss, this is not information I want to gatekeep. I don't really care. We're not here to write my biography. There's also all this other interesting stuff that we can talk about or experience together like that. Yeah. No, I do think nowadays people are much more open.

I think going on to dating apps when I was just 19, I was like, oh, no one's going to want to have sex with me because I'm a wheelchair user and I'm trans and stuff. And I'd message people and be like, oh my God, I'm trans. Is that okay? And they'd be like, yeah. Okay, congrats, I guess. But a lot of that I think also comes with age as well. Yeah. Like, this stuff can just feel very, like, so much of being a teenager is incredibly painful and undignified and, oh yeah, hellish. Yeah. And actually getting out of that. And when you're a teenager, if someone says like, oh, this will pass, it's like, you can't believe that in yourself, especially when parts of our identity are feeling really raw and new. I came out as queer when I was in my early twenties and it took like years and years of me dating

and having sex and actually queerness feeling like something that could be settled in me and not something that I had to prove to other people or was on guard about people dismissing it or whatever. And that is amplified and maybe complicated even more so with queerness and transness combined and then other like parts of identity. It's kind of the more you're like comfortable showing up as yourself, hopefully the better that's read and received. Yeah, I mean, I came out as trans at 14 and then started using wheelchair at 17. And it's

taken to like, kind of this year to stop apologizing for myself to people. Cause like my friends will now just go, can you stop saying sorry, please? For existing in the same room as me. It's really annoying. So I think it takes ages to sort of go, why am I apologizing for literally existing? And I feel like you have such good friends around you to be like, please stop apologizing, like what are you apologizing? To the point they'll get threatening.

They're like, if you don't stop apologizing, I'm gonna break this bottle on your head. And that's a good friend. That's a good friend. I mean, maybe a little aggressive, but we like the energy. Yeah. But also that it's so frustrating that like a default is to feel apologetic just because the world that we exist in assumes so many

rigid norms that to sit outside of that makes it feel like you're doing something wrong. Yeah. When actually that's not like just chilling. You're just chill. We all are. And like we're all different in different ways. And even the idea that like disability is this like separate topic and something that a lot of that people like have to opt into rather than that being like an assumed part of the world. Like, why do we pretend that this is like, it's not something that we're, we're all engaging with in different ways. It's the biggest minority. It's also the only minority you can join at any point in your life. You know, you could wake up tomorrow and be disabled. And also everyone, if they live long enough, is pre-disabled. At some point, age will disable you in some way.

Yeah, that's true, actually. So it's your sight, your hearing, your mobility. And yeah, I think a lot of the reason people don't wanna talk about disability is because they don't wanna acknowledge that. Yeah. So like, that's pretty scary, I'm good, thanks. So I think that's a lot of it. We're getting existential here. Makes sense in my head that

people are like, oh, I don't want to think about my own mortality and the fragility of my, you know, my body. That's literally it. Like you've hit the nail on the head, I feel. That's why people do get like uncomfortable around it or it's not a big, wider discussion or topic because people don't want to admit like it's a hard conversation to have I feel, isn't it? Yeah. If you're looking for something a bit more casual, like just looking to kind of have a bit of a hookup, do you think there are more barriers because people like read a disability as something where it's like, heaven forbid you should want to have casual sex?

I actually don't, I don't think. I don't think it's any different to talking to people about like dating and stuff. Okay. I think there's logistical barriers in that no one else's house is accessible. So you're like back to mind. Yeah people will be like do you want to come around? I'm like do you have a lift? And they're like no. and I'm like well no then because I can't fly. Yeah but Ash when we figure out the teleportation it's all gonna be fine. Do you know what I think about it so often I'm like what do you mean I have to get four different tubes just to get somewhere accessible I'm gonna let's work this out. We need like a really nice left wing billionaire that's not a mogul like a really good egg mogul yeah can we get your only fans money on this so you could be like a really like a sort of Robin Hood

using the money from the sex industry to like do all this amazing stuff. Literally get me some more subscribers and I will be Robin Hood for sex work. So do you have any tips for us for like dating profiles? Because mine is fucking flopping right now. No. Mine, I think, is just pictures. I always have a picture on my profile with someone else in it. So it looks like I have friends. You know. I feel like your humour though, you must portray that on your dating app I feel. I feel like my humour comes across via text

quite poorly. There's no tone or anything. I have to compensate with emojis to be like... That was funny! Yeah! Is that an ick? I'm such an emoji user and I feel like young people are like, ugh, why are you using so many emojis on my naan? Sometimes I've got no words, I just need to do the eyes! Yeah, I get so stressed about like sending messages and emails especially that I'll always put a smiley face at the end because I've been told my text can come across quite blunt so I'll be like I don't hate you at the end. I just hope that's fine. Smiley, smiley, smiley.

I now try, so when I became a freelancer five years ago and when I left my old job, one of the big signifiers in my life was like, okay, from now on, any email I send anyone, there's a kiss on the end. I don't care. Actually, I don't send that to my accountant because he he's a lovely, lovely man. I think I bring a lot of newness to his life that he is not quite ready for. So he's the only one who doesn't get a kiss because I don't want him to think I'm like flirting with him but anyone else I'm like, I'm a creative, we all are like I like sending a chaotic email and like putting a lol in there

and doing a couple of kisses and being like yeah that's like quite someone who's quite high up but I also just want to chat in a way that's friendly and like pop an emoji in there. Emojis and emails, I think we need to do that more. When I was at uni I started writing emails to lecturers so, so formally. By the end I was just replying with, okay, slay. Yeah, that was it. Pop a slay in. Okay, I'm glad that you're involved with that. And have we got any bad sex stories but not like bad bad? Comically bad? Like, yeah, I yeah I'm not listening to this faked an asthma attack because I was bored during sex. I love you I've never heard that as an excuse before they were like do you need me to stay like Like, do you need an ambulance? I was like, no, go, go. It's better if you leave.

And I felt really bad. It was really rough. Look, I feel like you may have got a lot of shit thrown your way over the years. And if you can use an asthma attack to your advantage, you get that pass. What's the point in having asthma if I can't use it to get out of bad sex? The trick is not to do it too much so they think you're dying because then they won't leave. Hot take, like not hot take, hot tip. Then you've got an ambulance coming and you have to explain to paramedics what's happening. I just wasn't feeling the sex. Yeah, I just wanted him to leave.

I think I said I need to call my gran because I was so alone she lives around the corner. Also I love that then the subject of that is being like you having bad sex and being like Nan can you come and get me I'm really enjoying this. I was like you need to leave because I need my gran here while I wheeze. I was like, you need to leave because I need my gran here while I wheeze. Which I don't know if they bought, but they did leave. Yeah. As we're wrapping up, do you have any recommendations for like other shows or just things with like

different media that's got really good visibility in terms of like sexuality and disability. Well there's a book called Disability Intimacy which is edited by Alice Wong and it's like essays and kind of memory stuff and it's not just sex it's like platonic love and like relationships with carers and stuff for disabled people and it's very lovely and helpful I think. And there was also a TV show which I have forgotten the name of. That's allowed. Yeah so that's helpful for everyone. And Heartstopper. Yeah that's true go and watch it now. Right now. And thank you so much for coming on this has been a dream. I won't say anytime again because it's gonna sound like I'm gonna hide here for all the podcasts you do.

But if you did, we'd actually be cool with it. I would love it, honestly. I think this has been my favourite episode to record, has been yours. Yeah, I've loved it. Stop. You're a dream, babes. I'm gonna go and high pine that plant now. And we'll put your social media-y bits in the show notes

so obviously go and follow Ash to find out all the lovely stuff that he's up to. Please do. We'll have to have you back sometime. Great. I'll come back. Thank you so much for everyone watching. As always we want to hear your amazing sex stories, your crazy mishap sex stories and just anything you want to share the tea with because you know I'm a busy bitch and I want to hear all of the stories. If you could email in at hello

at ins and outs pod.com that would be amazing. And if you enjoyed this episode share it with people this was such a special one so yeah yeah, let's spread the word, get more people in the ins and outs club. We don't have a good name for that yet, do we? Like, ins and outs club is kind of cringe. Anyway, bye, love you, see you later!