The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan - Kinks, BDSM and fetishes: What's the difference?
Episode Date: October 24, 2024Do you know your fetish from your kink? Ruby and Meg have got you covered. Meg spills the beans (or should we say custard and gravy?!) on things she was asked to do as a sex worker and R...uby gets hot and bothered talking about jelly. Email the podcast: hello@insandoutspod.comFollow Ruby on socials: @rubyrare Follow Megan on socials @meganbartonhanson_Ruby and Meg recommendations:The New Topping Book and The New Bottoming Book by Dossie Easton and Janet HardyKink, edited by R.O. Kwon and Garth GreenwellKink educator Lola Jean: @lolajeandotcom https://www.instagram.com/lolajeandotcom/?hl=en The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan is a Mags Creative and Dear Media production Producer and Content Editor for Mags Creative: Christy Callaway-GaleEditor and Engineer: Beautiful Strangers, Podcast HouseExecutive Producers for Mags Creative: Faith Russell and Kit MilsomThis podcast contains adult themes that are not suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
The first time it was always like custard and gravy. Can you pour that on yourself? And I was
just like, back then I was living at home with my parents. I was like, I don't think they're
going to be best pleased if I'm like putting my bed sheets in the wash with a 10 ton of
gravy over it and I'm just walking out in the hallway like, hi guys.
Hi lovelies, you are tuning in to the ins and outs with me, Ruby Rare.
And me, Megan Barton-Hanson.
From our chat last week about like singleness and for me, just like a lot of shit hitting the fan this year.
It has made me, where are you at with astrology?
I don't know too much.
You're literally wearing a Pisces necklace.
So I know that you are invested
somewhat in this I all of a sudden took an interest in astrology as soon as I started
dating women I think you kind of have to everyone's so into it yeah like the gay scene so then I kind
of knew but I only know mine my relatives and ex-girlfriends do you know your big three no okay we'll do that sometime
yeah that's like what's yours so I'm cancer son so we're both water babies that's why I love you
you're a cancer you're gonna get deep and then my rising is Sagittarius and my moon is Virgo
the more I've heard about Saturn returns I'm like oh I think this is real I think I'm doing it right now this is like I don't have a clue what Saturn returns
is like the point in your life when the planet Saturn goes back to where it was when you were
born and so it's meant to be like really disruptive and about like rebirth and shit and so it's
basically a time it happens like roughly every 30 years and so it's like a year and a half
of just like shit hitting the fan a lot of change a lot of big things happening and I was always
kind of skeptical about it and then I think now I'm in mine and I'm like oh okay cool noted I guess
I just have to like ride this out and ride the way let the planets do whatever weird shit they're
doing and I'll hang on in there that makes sense though
because i feel like for me also i'm like going through a time where i'm like i'm trying to change
and like i've got this new therapist and stuff and i'm like going through it at the minute and
i'm like oh it's hard but maybe it is amazing how are we birthing i want to get our charts up and
see when yours when your son returns is i actually was on a date with a woman last year and we were chatting about it and I was like I don't really know if I believe
in it whatever and then she looked up and she was like she started pissing herself laughing
and then looked up at me and was like it's saying that your Saturn returns begins tomorrow
no way what this is my last day. Before everything gets really chaotic.
And actually, like, she was right.
It was really the beginning of a lot of shit going down.
No.
I think we're getting there.
Well, maybe we should find out when it's ending and then when ours ends, we can, like, have a little celebration.
Have a debrief.
Thank God for that.
We got through it.
Right.
Okay.
Should we get into our topic for this week?
Let's dive in.
Right. Okay. Should we get into our topic for this week?
Yeah. Let's dive in.
Working in the sex industry, I've encountered like so many different like kinks, fetishes, but I didn't even know there was like different categories for what like a fet to come up a lot. And so this episode, I think I'm kind of approaching it like an overview of everything. But I am fascinated by this world and I want to get into it more. And so I'm sure that we'll have specific episodes that will be about really, really going into different things. But for now, overview of the whole wonderful, kinky BDSM yeah let's do it before i give definitions i want to know where you're coming from with this like when i say
kink what is your frame of reference i feel like you're gonna judge me because I feel like I'm not sheltered I thought I was very like
open but maybe I am so when people say like fetish I'm just like torture garden latex dog masks I
don't know like that's the spring to mind or like feet fetish like that's a big thing for like a lot
of straight guys, I feel.
It's this whole wonderful world.
And like, you probably know more than the average person about it.
But like, it's kind of nice. It feels a bit like going through the cupboard in Narnia or like Alice in Wonderland or Dorothy
coming out of the thing.
It's like this little world that I think can feel very taboo or like a bit secretive, a
bit unknown.
And the more that you dive in, for me, the more fascinating it gets.
Yeah.
So you've already got some frame of references like yes to latex, yes to little puppy masks, yes to foot fetishes.
You're hitting a lot of the big, big ones.
But I feel like they're the most like generic, like mainstream kind of fetishes do you think like the foot fetish the
dog mask and the latex thing that's very kind of but also most of the time when I speak to people
about kink their frame of reference is like a blindfold and some handcuffs and like there's
nothing wrong with that that's lovely but that feels to me and I I don't mean this in a derivative
like derivative way at all but like that's pretty 101 stuff.
You're talking about stuff that's like a little bit more hardcore.
To me, that was so vanilla.
Well, hey, that's saying more about you than anything else.
But like there's no like better or worse.
There's no competition with this.
It's about you indulging in your own desires and fantasies rather than like doing it because it's something other people are doing or it's something that you need to do
okay so can you help me with all the different categories like bdsm kink fetishes because i don't
have a clue what's going on right now okay i got you don't worry so i think of kink as a term that describes I guess like more non-conventional types of sexual play
so you've got pretty standard vanilla sex which is like pleasurable lovely hot and anything that
adds a little bit more spice into the mix I would identify as kinky a lot of the time that can
play into kind of power dynamics or an extension of play beyond just like this is some really
nice hot sex what about BDSM what does it stand for you want to have a guess if someone said BDSM
to me I'd be like tying someone up, spanking them, like dominance, like that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm in the right ballpark.
You're in the right ballpark.
You totally are.
So BDSM, the four letters stand for bondage and discipline.
Bondage is like someone being constrained or like tied in different ways.
Discipline, punishment-y thing.
And then the S and the m are for sadism
and masochism so sadism is inflicting pain pleasurable pain on someone else and masochism
is the the pleasure of receiving pain um and the the d and the s can also stand for like dominance
and submission so that is a lot of like power play dynamics I think you know unfortunately
the biggest cultural example we have of that is Fifty Shades of Grey still which I don't think
is the best example of like King and BDSM but how down for you like because that's something that I
have definitely dabbled in before and actually it's it's fun and I think pain is something in
a sexual context that can be really interesting if
you're in an environment that you feel safe in it's like a real heightened sensation and kind
of just makes all of my other senses like buzzy and super alert which if you haven't experienced
that before you maybe look at it and being like why do you want to get hit that doesn't look fun
no literally that was going to be my question so there's like certain things this is like so tmi but like that's what we're here for love
i'm literally exposing so much but like the whole spanking thing i'm into that because it's not like
that painful but it's kind of like hot but like you know when people like nipple clamps what on god's earth is happening here
because i've i've tried and like when i used to do webcam guys would be like oh can i page put
these absolutely not sir even if you pay me a million pounds if i was like having sex or
someone's going down on me and i like done it a little bit that could be hot but when it's
like so much no like I'm just trying to like have a good time right now like why are we trying to
add pain into here I think we all have a different relationship to this and I'm quite fast like
maybe your version of like where you're comfortable with and what's like pushing your limits in like
a fun way and then what would actually just like pushing your limits in like a fun way and
then what would actually just be pushing your limits and are like no thank you not into that
way is going to be different from mine and different from every person listening and it's
less like a you need to be more extreme it's more finding your edge and like how and if you want to
play with it and push it a bit yeah because i've got I naturally have like quite a high pain threshold and so if I want to experience some kind of fun pain in sex like someone's gonna
have to put some muscle in I love you so much for your honesty okay so can you tell me what a fetish
is like as opposed to BDSM and a kink a kink often is a want and a fetish can sometimes
be a need right of like kinks can be and again my understanding of this from my sex life and the way
that i work and teach is that kinks can be like embellishments and add-ons that are really fun
ways that we like enhance sex yeah whereas someone having a fetish it's a much more like intense relationship with sexual
objects or sexual practices so you talking about latex like some people might just get like quite
turned on and be really into latex and that would maybe be more of a kink but if you're someone who
like is really into that and like that is the thing that gets you off and you find it quite
hard for that to like get off without that being there.
That might be categorized more in a fetish-y category.
So like the same with feet, like you can be into feet or you can be into feet.
So I guess like with a kink, it's just like spicing up generic vanilla sex.
biting up generic vanilla sex but then with a fetish it's like you kind of need that aspect in your like sexual life I guess the thing I've thought about and spoken about in the past
from more of a fetish lens is the is like you don't know this about me
oh tell me I'm excited I'm really into jelly stop And now it's become trendy.
Now there's like porn being made with jelly and it's amazing.
But like,
I've been here since day one,
really into this shit.
But in the past,
I've definitely thought of that more as a fetish.
And I think there have been moments where it's been more heightened.
Now I classify that as like,
that's a kink thing I'm into.
And it kind of,
that's,
that enters into the sploshing world which is like
it's also called like wet and messy play of just being like really uninhibited and messy and that
could be with food or like other substances but yeah i just think jelly's hot and mesmerizing and
like i can't talk about it publicly very often because it gets me like in a really weird headspace but then also i'm a vegetarian which is really hard because there is good there is good vegetarian
jelly don't worry i've tried but in the past people like mates have given me jelly and i'm
like that's really sweet of you but also like i don't want the pig and the beef gelatine
but also like thank you for being really sex positive.
It's a real balance.
Thank you so much for like taking on my kink fetish.
But also, is that vegan?
Dietary requirements are important.
What a wanky thing as well for me.
But hey, that's who I am.
No, stop.
You like what you like.
But did you see, I love Erika Loss as like what you like but did you see I love Erica Loss
as like a producer and did you see she just bought our video of jelly yeah it's been around
that has been like the most sent to me from my followers like everyone just exploded when that
came out of being like have you seen this one and it's like yes of course I've seen this
of course I'm really into it it's really hot it's really beautiful but yeah jelly is definitely
becoming more trendy and I am very happy about that I'm also doing that smug thing of if you've
really liked a band for ages being like I liked it before it was cool guys yeah like you're just
getting I'm OG okay I haven't eaten jelly for 10 years I was here from day one no I'm actually
gonna go home and watch the jelly video now okay good let me know what you think we've done definitions I've shared a bit too much and now
it's your turn give me some stories now it's on you um so I have obviously worked in the sex
industry for a long time and guys will like ask me for things that I think are like so random and like I don't
know I just can't see the sexual side of it but obviously there must be something that they're
into so let me give you some examples I'm ready the first one that really took me by surprise
obviously the whole like sploshing thing and all of that like I've heard about that for a long time
so the first time it was always like custard and gravy can you pour that on yourself and I was just
like back then I was living at home with my parents I was like I don't think they're going
to be best pleased if I'm like putting my like bed sheets in the wash with a 10 ton of gravy over it and i'm just walking up like in the hallway like custard in my eyelashes like also i'm less i'm less bothered i mean
lol and i agree with you that probably your parents didn't need to see that but i think
both of them are separate things love live your life personal preference for
me mixing them big no no i'm a purist i really don't like i'm like wet and messy but not too
messy i don't want like sweet and savory interacting it that really like upsets my brain
um but i'd fuck with gravy and i'd fuck with custard but can I ask like what what is it is
it like the whole like texture thing like you want to be like have it on your body or is it like
I don't know like you want to lick it off someone's like tits like I don't I don't get it
it's less it's less the licking things off I think there's like that real stereotype of being like
licking whipped cream or like chocolate off someone that's not that feels very stereotypical to me I think it's
tapping into something that is so purely joyful and it's about the permission to like make a mess
and fuck up and like be like it's all I think a lot of the time and people can find it hard to talk about this stuff but like the some of the stuff from kink can come back to us being quite early on in childhood so like me
being told that I needed to be really careful and like be polite with my table manners and not make
a mess and like eat like eat my foods and not be like too playful with it when you're then presented
with something like jelly which is literally the most joyful food object I can think of like of course you
want to put your hands in it and like smush it all together and just throw it well I want to
like throw it all around or whatever but there's a forbiddenness in doing that so it's like breaking
the rules it's kind of nestling up to those taboos so I know that for other people is like if you look
at loads of other kinks really it's sometimes like tapping into the forbiddenness of it and
maybe for like the guys that you were like seeing when you were doing camming stuff it's being able
to like watch someone really hot and beautiful like do this thing that's so forbidden yeah and
like that kind of being titillating or like maybe even a bit liberating
or also like factoring into like humiliation stuff if people are into that,
that like someone doing something that from an outside world
might be like a humiliating act if you're like covered in custard and gravy.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
That does make so much sense now because obviously when you're wearing up, it's like, yeah, I get it. That does make so much sense now, because obviously, when you're wearing up, it's like, yeah, like, be polite, don't do this. And it's like, no, I'm just throwing the rulebook out the window. And if I want to wear the fucking gravy, I'm wearing the gravy.
Love that phrasing, wear the gravy.
So what else? What else you um experience in your time another one which
really I couldn't I feel like I'm so open-minded but I just couldn't understand this one
this guy paid for me to put handcuffs on and wash my hands with soap
I love that and in my head I'm trying to like rework this and think like okay like obviously
I'm gonna do it if you're paying me money but equally like I'm such a nerd like I love to like
deep dive and like find out three and I was like but what she is it I've got no idea I wish we
could speak but like I think everyone's got these things where I wish we could speak to them and be
like explain explain how all of this like adds as something that is exciting. I guess also sex work is a space for clients to maybe ask for things that they wouldn't be able to ask in their real life.
sex positive or like as open-minded that might be met with a lot of shame of like what the fuck why would you ask me to do that that's really weird and actually working like with you or
another sex worker like being given the permission to just ask for the weird stuff and be like
I also don't need to justify it I just want to do this thing and it's going to make me happy
I've got no idea and be authentically them which is so nice like I've had it a few times like there was this guy
and he was like married and he would come on webcam and he was like I've got something to
show you so obviously in my mind I was like of course he's gonna be sitting there with his dick
out wasn't even he was laying there with stockings and suspenders but then I was like you know like
some guys like to be humiliated I didn't know if I was supposed to be like oh my god like you're not sex hanging out with that like tiny lacy thong or if I'm supposed to
be like babe you look stunning you look pretty oh and I hate being like mean to people so I was
just like oh my god you look so hot but I'm not sure if that's what he wanted but that's what I
gave him I don't know how you go about that I think because day to day I'm in charge a lot of the time like I'm a big
sister I'm quite organized and so actually in sex I really enjoy I just would love someone else to
steer the ship and tell me what to do oh my god and be like oh my god tell me that I'm really good
and that I've done a good job that's a praise kink if anyone is curious listening what's it called
like a praise kink oh my god just being really into
because i don't want someone i'm too sensitive water signs if someone's mean to me like in a
humiliating way or like so something actually really cutting and mean i'll just cry but for
other people they'll be really into that i want to be told that i have done really well and like
be patted on the head and been told that i'm good that's crazy i
think this whole astrology thing does make sense now because i'm the same yeah day to day i'm like
such a feminist like independent bitch i'm like if a man ever spoke to me like shit i'll be like
fuck off as soon as i'm like in a sexual thing talk to me like shit and be like oh my god like
do this do that i'm like yes okay but that's
again about subverting the rules like if we're you know empowerment for everyone but particularly for
women and for queer people as well is so important but also we've got to find spaces where we can
play with that and subvert it and actually kink can be like that's all of this can actually be
really political because i've spoken to loads of people women especially in the past who felt really shameful about feeling
submissive and like what you're saying of being like but I'm empowered and like I don't want that
like why is this turning me on and like that's kind of the whole point that we've been told
that we shouldn't take like put up with this shit and we need to be like and we should be you know independent and self-sufficient yeah but why can't sex be a space where we play with that
i feel like in a way it's kind of like when you know like when you're a kid and you're like at
school or you're like you're living your life and then you'll be like oh let's go and play this game
and all of a sudden you're like outside and you're pretending you're like i don't know like you know make believe like shit that's basically what we're doing isn't it
it's like playing but for grown-ups it's like playtime for adults i used to in the playground
we used to play the tudors we used to pretend that we were like different wives of henry the
eighth because obviously it would have been like year four and we were doing the tutors in school
and we were all into how like gory it was and so in a playground session it would be like
okay who's the queen and then everyone like plotting to kill her and then we'd behead her
and there'd be like another queen oh my god it was really fun that's such like intelligent like
I was literally playing mums and dads or then I'll just go into like kiss chase I mean kiss chase was fun
as well don't get me wrong but yeah like I think sex can be an opportunity to tap into so many of
those feelings you're right it's like that's why I'm so obsessed with this and I think you are too
that it's not just like sex isn't just sex it's like political and it's about the way that we
see ourselves and the way we like process the world around us and kink is an extension of sex yeah like for me i think if we all started to see
sex through more of a kink lens just like day to day it would be great and it's just like having
fun when we've got like bills to pay like every day like stresses of life this is a time where
you can just like be authentically you and
just have fun okay before we finish up i actually do have something that i need your advice about
okay that is it's stressing me out because i feel like i should be good at this and i'm just not
i have started sleeping with someone who is very cute very, very lovely. But we are both on the more subby side.
Right.
And they want me to be more dominant.
And in theory, I'm game.
Megan, I'm so nervous.
In theory, I'm game.
I feel really out of my depth because I'm like,
I want to be good at this, but I haven't practiced it as much. as much like yeah I don't know what to do no I hear you because equally like I dress
up in that like latex-y like whips and chains that I've done all these videos and we call it like
on my OnlyFans I'm like Mistress Megan they're like when's Mistress Megan coming back and then
they ask me like can you be mean to me can you dominate me I'm like no I'm the little baby here no it's just it's just for show
do you feel the same kind of yeah I just want to be the baby we can't both be the baby well some
I mean I guess you can but sometimes someone's going to want to be like told what to do and
bossed around a bit yeah and I in theory I really want to lean into it
but I and maybe even because I know a lot about this world I feel I have them pressure that like
I should be good at it and I feel embarrassed about like giving it a go and being a bit shit
to begin with like well I think I'll get there I basically I think we need a pro dom on here at
some point to like actually ask our questions to like someone who properly knows what to do and gets like real joy out of it I need to tap into that joy can we because I feel
so nervous you shouldn't and also I feel like you shouldn't put that pressure on yourself like
because obviously you're so knowledgeable about like the whole sex thing but like it doesn't mean
you're going to be amazing and like be into every single thing do like it doesn't mean you're gonna be amazing and
like be into every single thing do you know what I mean so I think you need to give yourself a bit
of grace and be like yeah it's just not really my vibe but for you you're hot so I will be dominant
for you but I just need to like dip my toe in first have you tried over text or anything a little bit
have you tried over text or anything a little bit and like I can do it but I still I'll do it and then I'm like I can't keep my cool about it yet and so I think I need to just get used to it and
I do have fun also if I if I gave it a go and I actually wasn't enjoying it I'd say that and we'd
figure out something else yeah but I think this has been looming for a while that like I'm not I'm not comfortable with
this and I'd like to be able to give it a go I also think it's quite nice if you like sit on a
more subby or domi side to know what the other side is like definitely but I think first point
of call we definitely need to get like a professional like dominatrix going here let's get mistress Megan in next week yeah like
show me your whips
I need to not like
cosplay the part
I need to actually
be her
so we need
should we record
an episode
it's like
our dom
alter egos one
oh my god
that actually makes me
so nervous
no stop
when we get the
professional
we should actually
dress as very like dominant
it might help us it might help it might help you're right okay i'm gonna have to give get
need some warming up for that but i am on board and if you've got any advice or tips then please
let us know i'm glad that i'm not alone in this no and that you feel it too because otherwise
oh no it'd be fine if it was just me but it's so
funny how it's like circled back to the whole astrology thing i do think water signs we're
very sensitive and maybe just i would love to know if there's like a pisces cancer dominant like
what's it called dominatrix yeah out there give let us know babes or if it's all fire signs
so if people are a bit like me and they didn't really understand the difference between like
kinks fetishes bdsm where is the best place for them to learn i mean literally just google no i'm
joking no i have some i have some recommendations um there are some really good books called the
new topping book and the new
bottoming book which are by dossie easton and janet hardy they're old they're like 20 years old
but they really stand up in just like being more dominant being more submissive i find them very
interesting there's also a like book called kink which is just lots of different stories of like
so so many different worlds we'll like put that in the show notes and then finally I want to shout out one of my lovely lovely friends Lola Jean she is
incredible and like comes from the kink pro dom world does loads of stuff around like wrestling
and like is amazing and her Instagram I love because she talks about kink with a lot of, like, tenderness and cheekiness.
So check that out.
Cool.
I'm going to have to download them myself.
Every week I'm just giving you homework now, babe.
I'm sorry.
I love this.
You're literally teaching me.
Yes.
I'm glad.
You're praising me.
Yay.
We're all happy.
yay we're all happy so if you have any stories or any kind of fetishes that you think me and ruby don't know about please write in and tell us because we want to know all of the fetishes
i want to educate myself and i want to know all of them you're just collecting this is like pokemon
for you now this is so fun i'm like i want to try everything okay well i'm i'm very here to
facilitate this journey and yeah if you have any other like tips or comments from the stuff that
we've discussed i'm really game to like hear what you think everything that you send is basically
going to help us inform how we continue making this and making it like the most interesting that
it can be um and we have an email address now oh my god i'm really excited about that so professional
look at us we've made it we've got a podcast with an email address although i can't remember what
the email address is i have to look okay but the email is hello at ins and outs pod.com so please
send send things there we're really excited to hear what you think and if you're a sick dominatrix
please come and teach us because we need to be more fierce in that aspect.
Yeah.
Really, we need it.
Mistress Megan needs to come to fruition.
I can't just cosplay it.
I need to be Mistress Megan.
Only fans is thirsty for it.
We need this to happen.
We'll be back next week with a new episode of The Ins and Outs.
So make sure you tune in.
Bye, babes.