The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan - Opening up your relationship?

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Wondering if you should open up your relationship or try out polyamory? You’re not alone! More and more people seem to be having this conversation. Ruby and Meg get into what it truly means to be non-monogamous. Ruby shares what her life looks like as a solo polyamorous babe and Meg contemplates whether non-monogamy could ever be for her. They chat about what it means to build relationships outside of the “norm” and why we’re taught to believe that love can run out. A hot Countdown collab is floated with (non-monogamous?) Carol Vorderman. Plus plot twist - Meg wonders whether she could date Ruby’s dad…Email the podcast: [e-mail] Ruby on socials: @rubyrare Follow Megan on socials @meganbartonhanson_Resources:Non-monogamy quiz from: https://www.askdiem.com/post/the-beginner-s-guide-to-opening-up-your-relationship-part-1  Ruby and Meg’s recommendations:Ruby’s new book! The Non-Monogamy Playbook https://lnk.to/thenonmonogamyplaybook The Anxious Person’s Guide to Non-Monogamy by Lola Phoenix  Love's Not Color Blind: Race and Representation in Polyamorous and Other Alternative Communities by Kevin A. PattersonHow to understand your relationship by Meg-John Barker and Alex Iantaffi (Pub. 2025)  The Ins and Outs with Ruby and Megan is a Mags Creative and Dear Media production Producer and Content Editor for Mags Creative: Christy Callaway-GaleEditor and Engineer: Beautiful Strangers, Podcast HouseExecutive Producers for Mags Creative: Faith Russell and Kit MilsomThis podcast contains adult themes that are not suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I'm Lauren and I'm Ashley and this guys is Nip Tuck Pod. We are your girl chat. We say the things you want to hear, the things that you're thinking but you don't want to say out loud and we're all about being strong aspirational women who basically don't give a... Lauren anyway if you want unfiltered chat, amazing beauty and product recommendations then look no further guys. This is the podcast where you will get all of the girly chat. The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

Do you think having a wank and thinking about someone else is cheating? No, no way. Cheeky grin immediately. Hey everyone, you're tuning into the ins and outs with me, Ruby Rare. And me, Megan Barton-Hanson. Happy New Year, babe.

Happy New Year. How are you feeling? Okay. I mean, we are sorry to like break the fourth wall. We're recording this in the past. So I don't actually know how I'm gonna be... I'm probably really hungover still as this is coming out. I imagine I'm gonna be severely hungover and I'm just hoping I had like the best sex entering in 2025. I hope, I really hope that for you as well

and all of you listening wherever you are if you're hanging with us or if you're feeling like fresh-faced inspired for the new year then yeah we really hope that you're having a nice start to 2025. I have a question that I want to ask you before we get cracking babe. Right. I used to talk quite a lot about taking a good nude. I'm very out of practice and have recently tried to dabble and I've lost the skill. What tips have you got from the OnlyFans world? How do you take a good nude? Literally, I've taken so many nude pictures.

That's why I wanted to ask. I thought you'd be the expert. I'm a veteran, but I don't believe you've lost it. I just feel like, even me, obviously where it's my job, there's time. So I'm due for my period or I'm bloated and I'm like, oh, I can't be asked. But there were so many tricks. I think angle is everything. Shoot from above.

And one of the main things as well is lighting. I think it changes everything. If you're there and you've got downward lights, that's not flattering. You need to set the mood, like some warm lighting. I think that's good. And do you just do them a bit cheeky, this is me as I'm going about day to day, or if you're sending like a nude to like someone you're sleeping with, or if it's like for work as well, do you go like full production value? I have my set few like poses so that just the

same, just the outfits changing, but I think always a good one, like shoot from above, titties in, looking up. I think that's a hot one. Because I always think this is so much like TMI, but like imagine if you're like going down on someone, I think like give them eyes, like you're looking up at them. That kind of vibe is what I tend to go for. Warm lighting, check the background, because before that's fucked me. I've got a banging selfie and in the background it's like my dirty washing or like... Pants on the floor. Like my socks or like half eating food just chilling in the background. I'm like oh what on a cock block? Don't do that to yourself. So check the background for sure before you

send. Crop is like a good thing. I was in, I was like away for a work trip a couple months ago and came back from this really bougie dinner quite pissed and was like I'm in a fancy hotel, I'm away for work, I feel great and I took loads of selfies as I was just like getting undressed, was fucking feeling myself the whole time. And then fell asleep really quickly, woke up the next morning and looked through and was just like, oh, hun, you were delusional. Like aggressive flash lighting, like my makeup was all over.

Like it was not, it wasn't like wild and carefree in a fun way. It was just like hot mess express. And I sent a couple of them to a mate, just laughing. Like, wow, I was really feeling myself. Like I thought I looked fucking sensational and that was not the case. We've all been there, but thank God you didn't send them to anyone. Yeah, I'm glad I just parked them for the night.

I've done that before, but like literally taking it to a step like further, done a whole video. I was like, oh my God, it looks so hot. Look at my tits bouncing. Look at that fat ass. And then I looked in the morning, like you said, hot mess express. It was bad, but on WhatsApp, because it had been over a certain amount of time, you can't retract that. You can't unsend. It's done. It's there. It's in the camera roll. So I just, I think I just archived that chat and just struck that person off my roster because I fucked that up for myself. Also, I quite like, I think sometimes when we think like, oh God, that's not good enough or that's a bit hot mess.

Like actually, I like that when it's people that I'm really into. And I sort of want to be a bit more forgiving for myself to like send a chaotic nude. Obviously, consensually, but like it not having to be like completely polished and perfect but I think I need to get over that little mental hump. And that's so true because I think we are like everyone's their own worst critic and the other person who's receiving it and they're not going to be like paying attention. They just hear the jackpot like that's great! Yeah for sure. Okay well, well thank you. I appreciate the advice. And it's good to know that I'm not the only one who takes delusional nudes in the middle

of the night sometimes. If you're in our club as well, then let us know. Send us, don't send us nudes. But if you have tips for sending good notes, then you can send them away. Our email is hello at ins and outs pods.com. So shall we get into today's episode? Let's do it. Today we're going to be speaking about the ins and outs of non monogamy.

And as we're on this topic, I feel like someone's got a little book on this subject. Not bloody little mate, it's 80,000 words. A huge book, absolutely iconic book. Yes, yes, I don't know if I can call it iconic. So yeah, I have a book coming out in a couple weeks. It's called The Non-Monogamy Playbook. I feel really proud of it. And I also find I love writing and

working on longer projects. And then as soon as it comes to actually talking about them and like sharing it and being like, hey, buy this thing. I just want to be like a little hermit crab and like scuttle away again. Babe, no. I don't know why. I just find it really cringe to be like, hey, I made this thing. Do you want it? But I also have to tell myself to shut up because I feel really, really proud of this book. And so.

As you should be honestly, when I read it, it's like what every person needs. It's like, you're the cool older sister, explain it. And now in like a patronizing way, you're just like getting to the facts. You're funny. Like obviously I'm like pitching is so hard, but it is iconic. I wouldn't say if it wasn't. But so proud of you. You're funny. Like, obviously, I'm like, pitching is so hard, but it is iconic. I wouldn't say if it wasn't. We're so proud of you. You should be proud.

I can do a bit of plugging, but it's very nice to have you to also hype me up. But yeah, we wanted to kick off the year talking about this topic because I've been thinking about this for this book for like a year and I'm just, I put so much into this and it's a topic that still people don't know loads about. So I hope this episode can give people a little of like an intro and then obviously if you want to learn more, there's a shiny book that I feel nervous about that's supposed to be out in the world. So yeah, shall we chat through some non-monogamy 101 stuff? Let's dive in.

So to begin with, how do you define monogamy? Monogamy is just two people just solely in an intimate relationship with each other. There's no flirting, there's no casual sex with anyone else. It's just them. That's their flirting, there's no casual sex with anyone else, it's just them. That's their unit and that's it. I think that's pretty similar to a lot of other people's interpretations of monogamy. Although it does change from relationship to relationship, I think we really do ourselves a disservice when we assume that monogamy is a one-size-fits-all thing. So maybe, do you want to, are you up for doing a little quiz with me?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. So I want you to have a think with your personal understanding, if any of these things, if they fit within a monogamous relationship or if you'd consider it cheating or like, you know, beyond the realms of that relationship. So do you think having a wank and thinking about someone else is cheating? No. No way. Cheeky grin immediately. Is watching porn cheating? No.

Is having a close friendship with someone that you're attracted to, but you're not physically intimate with cheating? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I don't know. Yeah. It's just inappropriate. Okay. And I'm supposed to say yes or no. Inappropriate. You can, hey, we can, we can fuck up the rules here. Is getting with a stranger when your partner is away cheating? Yes. And is having sex with someone who is a different gender to your partner cheating?

Yeah. So I think everyone's going to have slightly different answers to that. And it's so easy for us to assume that what we think are the yes and no's for ourselves is just like the universal way that people do relationships. And little reminder that we create and design our own relationships. And whether you are monogamous or you're not, it's really about finding things that work for you

and the person or the people who you are with. So yeah, I guess that middle one that you got caught up with like having a close friendship, but nothing like sexual or intimate is happening. Yeah. That's a really tricky one. Right?

Because for me, it's like, if you're just like co-workers or you're just like around this person anyway, you're not going out your way to spend time with this person, actively flirt with them and be suggestive in the way you're speaking, then that's fine. But if you're like, oh yeah, my girlfriend's at home, but you know, you're kind of hot, like, do you know what I mean? Like, it's just rude. The lines start to get blurred. It's tricky when sometimes within monogamous relationships, there's almost the assumption that we have to pretend we don't feel attraction towards other people. Yeah. Like that didn't, I wonder what that like denial can do.

And if that adds pressure onto people, if you're like not allowed to voice that you might fancy someone or like have a bit of a cheeky crush, even if that is fleeting and isn't going to like change the structure of your relationship. Yeah. It's a big world. This, and there are more and more people who are interested in it. More people doing it actually, but even if we're not thinking about like numbers of people in non-monogamous relationships, this is becoming more of the conversation.

And yet there's still so many misconceptions, misunderstandings, and like just gaps in our knowledge of how we could do this in a way that's like healthy and happy for everyone involved. Yeah and I really don't have a clue really what the difference between like certain terminology is and stuff so can you break it down for us like what's monogamy, what's polyamory like just help us. Yes let's do it, let's do it. And also dive in if you've got questions like when I'm breaking a few of these down.

So there's so many different relationship styles under this. We'll go over a few now, but there are more. I list a lot of them in my book and there are some other great resources where you can learn more. All that info is in the show notes. Speedia overview now. Modern traditional monogamy is like two people together

in a closed relationship where romantic and sexual intimacy is shared just between them. By the way, a couple hundred years ago, that would have been scandalous because nowadays we go from like one monogamous relationship to another. If you were put back in time to like, I don't know, 400 years ago, it would be like, wait, what?

Multiple relationships throughout your life? You slag. No, what a be like, wait, what? Multiple relationships throughout your life? You slag. Oh no. What a sad existence. Yeah, I guess so. And that would have been, monogamy was, okay, marriage, and then that person forever until you die. And there was no option, like very limited option

for like divorce or annulment. So again, just goes to show like our understandings of what the norm is for relationships really changes over time. And I think we're maybe in a starting to have a bit of a shift there of like monogamy not being the only assumed way of doing relationships. As it should be. Like, I don't know how you feel, but don't you think I personally think monogamy, like the whole concept was invented to control us. And mostly to control women. Yeah. Like to control everybody. There's a, I think the history of monogamy is so tied to the history of

organized religion as well, but monogamy as a relationship choice is a really beautiful, valid, lovely thing. I'm not here to shit on monogamy. No. But when that is enforced as like the way to do it, or the only correct way to be happy or to be in a successful relationship or to have your relationship taken seriously, that's when it makes me sad. Because it's like the same with queer stuff, when like you have to fight against that assumption that to be normal is to be straight and in a relationship with one man, one woman, you can see how like the kind of queer historic struggles and present struggles combine with all the stuff with like compulsory monogamy as

well. Yeah and it's like who's dictated to us that that is the norm, monogamy is the norm, straightness is the norm. Like sorry who said that? Not for me. Not for me, honey. So yeah, so that's monogamy. And then non monogamy is basically anything that's not that. Some people say consensual non monogamy or ethical non monogamy. That's just too many syllables for me. I can't really be bothered. Yeah. But also, we don't say ethical monogamy or consensual monogamy. So again, there's maybe a bit of a double standard and I get a bit angsty about that of being like, why should I have to say that the way I do relationships is

exactly ethical? It's not the same as cheating, goes without saying. It's about like agreeing your boundaries and your kind of what everyone's feeling happy with in that context. But there can be so many different ways of doing this. So it might be being in a couple that looks from the outside like a kind of traditional setup, but then you're monogamish. That's a term I really like. A writer called Dan Savage came up with that a while back, but sort of mostly monogamous. But then every once in a while you might have a little extra special guest star who enters your bedroom or, you know, if one of you is away, you might like have a little fling and just, you know, it can be a bit more fluid than just like monogamous or not monogamous.

You can have polyamory, which is the like, I think the term that most people are familiar with out of all of these little subcategories. That can be a bit more about longer term, like loving relationships. So multiple relationships or dynamics where there's maybe a romantic element as well as a sexual one. Polyamory can be broken down into different ways of doing it. If you're kind of in a more of a hierarchical structure where you've got like a relationship

that's the main priority and then other people in your life that maybe you don't have the same, you might not live together, you might not share finances, practical stuff, or you might not spend as much time together. Or you can look at polyamory through a more egalitarian lens, which is kind of everyone more on the same playing field.

Right. Like there's not someone who's deemed like... The main one. Yeah, main one or like who's like worthy of more time or attention. That's nuanced in itself because I think both of those terms are flawed in different ways. Like how completely equal can you always be when you're talking about human emotions and feelings? Yeah, but don't you think like obviously even if you try to be as equal as you possibly

can to be fair or whatever, that's the boundaries that's in place. There is going to be Flavour of the Month where if you have like particularly good sex with one one week you're going to be like oh I love Flavour of the Month, there's such a nice way of phrasing it. In my relationships, I think there's an understanding of that, that things ebb and flow, and that can be nice. And obviously, there might be like insecurities and like, difficult bits that come up with that. But it's not about being like, okay, we've all agreed this, and it has to stay exactly the same all the time. There's a bit more fluidity with it. Two terms that I really love and I've kind of personally moved more towards over the years is like one is solo polyamory.

A lot of open relationships and non-monogamy still ends up really centering couples as like the way to do relationships, but you just have more than one. And solo polyamory is like reframing that and thinking of me as like actually the relationship I have with myself and with like my platonic loves, you know, I live with my sibling now, they're my best mate and my favourite person. That's a really important relationship in my life. A lot of the time that's not seen as significant in the way that a romantic and a sexual partner would be. That's actually the longest term relationship in my life. That's the one I care about the most. So centering things like that and centering myself and having multiple relationships, but the aim of any of the relationships

I'm in right now not being to get to that like couple status with anyone. Yeah. And then relationship anarchy, which sometimes people get a bit panicked when they hear anarchy because they think about like, it's like chaos. For wild chaos. Like it's, it's less that than you think it is. Right. It's basically reframing relationships and building relationships without any of the assumptions about like how you're meant to create this. It's sort of wiping the slate clean and being like, okay, case by case basis, the relationship that we co-create together is going to be determined by what we want, not by any like outside noise. That's lovely.

It's cute, isn't it? Yeah, I've never heard of that before but that's amazing. So like you know when people are like oh I've got I have to go on like four dates before I can sleep with someone it's like throwing that away and just doing whatever you want. I got I put that in the bin like 10 years ago. Good yeah I really don't believe in that like oh man's only gonna respect you if you like wait four days to sleep with him. But we carry around so many of those rules and like some rules are more conscious than others but yeah just really I've been in non-monogamous relationships in some way or other for a decade

now. So many of my experiences has been like holding a mirror up and questioning why I assume something or like where that rule or expectation has come from and trying to like wipe the slate clean as often as possible and think about like, what do I want right now? And how does and like the people around me who I care about, like what's best for us, rather than what's best for normative societal lens or, you know, like what my parents are going to want or what like looks like the most successful relationship to my friends or on social media or whatever. Yeah, what a lovely way to put it. Just like do whatever serves you and the people around you. Thank you. Not what society says. Oh, I appreciate it. Like it's a funny one because I think this is still seen as a bit of a like weird out there thing to do. And I mean, in my circles, this is kind of the norm. I still have a few monogamous friends, and they are now in the minority and like my friendship groups. Hey, you can come on in anytime. But for most people, this is, I appreciate this can feel a bit out there, but it's really not as scary or weird as a lot of people think. My life feels really

normal for me. It's just I've created my version of normal. Yeah, as you should and I feel like that's a really refreshing way to look at it because I think I'm from such a small town in Essex. It's very traditional where everyone's very like follows the rules and it's like we just kind of get born, go to work, do what people say and we don't question it. Whereas you've got the right idea, you and your friends seem like living for you authentically yourself, not just following this like rule book that someone's made in the 1800s to control women. Yeah and living authentically can look like doing all of that stuff as well. This isn't

about making anyone feel bad about their choices or what feels right for them, but just being able to question and make sure that what you're doing feels good for you. Because I think there are a lot of people who just step into these quite traditional things without ever really being given an option to consider if that's right for them or not. Yeah.

So in moments you've been like, maybe I should be polyamorous and then other moments you being like, hell fucking no. So where do you feel, like do you think you'd ever consider doing something like this? It's really, really hard because I haven't had a long-term relationship to know.

And I feel like I could see myself say if I've been married for like or like with the same person for five years I could see that getting very boring. It's hard to say but I also on the flip side of that whether it comes from like underlying insecurity or like low self-esteem I do get very jealous and possessive. If someone's like with me, I say to people when I'm dating them like there's a six month maybe year where we're just casual, where we can have free sex, we can have group sex, we can go to sex parties. When I've fallen in love with you, oh it would hurt me so bad.

There's something here which gets bigger than just relationship stuff. I write about this, there's a whole chapter called Elastic Love, and it's looking at how basically capitalism has really dictated our understanding of love and our understanding, and like the way that we see love as a finite resource and something that can be used up. Like a lot of that comes from like economic structures of going, okay, well, if you limit the quantity of something, then the value goes up. Right. And I think we end up doing a version of that with our emotions and in our love lives. And so thinking like, okay, well, someone getting attention that like takes attention away from me,

or like someone caring about someone else means that I'm getting less of it. And actually trying, it's hard to do, but I've done it over the years and there are ways of getting to this, trying to reframe. So you're thinking about all of this with a bit more abundance. That's so true. Like you don't, we don't run out of love in moments where I can feel insecure and be like, I don't know, feel a bit threatened or a bit worried about like someone fancying someone else.

I know in my brain what it's like to really care about someone, but also have a crush on somebody else. And that doesn't take away from the feelings I have for that first person. They're just a bit different and it's like adding different flavors and trying to look at all of those moments with a bit more curiosity and less of that like sudden panic and fear like really has taught me a lot about myself and it's not like avoiding I mean we've got a whole episode coming up about jealousy soon so we can save some of this for then but like it's not about avoiding the difficult feelings. It's about like looking

at them with a bit more curiosity and going like, oh, what's going on there? Yeah, I guess I was taught that if someone's attention went on to someone else, it lowered my self-worth and it meant that I wasn't good enough. And so when that happens, that's, that's the panic that like spikes up in me. Why is that? Yeah. When really I know that I am capable of loving more than one person at once, because I have and I do. And we do already with like mates and you know, mates of mine who've got like more than one kid. You're not like, sorry babe, I used to pull my love on that first kid.

So like you get less. Like that's not how this works. That is such a cool way of looking at it. It's like it shouldn't be like a me or her or a me or him situation. You're going to have different levels and different like feelings for different people. But like, it's enough to go around, hun. Yeah. And it's not for everyone. But it is, I think it's worth exploring a bit. If this piques your interest, like you're allowed to hypothetically think

about this and think about how things might be different if you're in future relationships or I also get a lot of people coming to me who are in a monogamous relationship and want to open it up and have a whole load of questions. That must be hard if you've already established that for years and years and years. It's tricky. I mean, I think it's hard when you have that expectation of what that relationship looks like. You're kind of having to reinvent it and say goodbye to parts of that relationship. But also, you hopefully will have long standing trust between the two of you, which is a really good foundation to start doing something

a bit different. Like it's also nice, it can be nice when you open things up right at the beginning because you're kind of building in this openness from the start, but then maybe you don't have that trust that you've built up over time, so you're kind of having to navigate building that as well as trying something new. There's no one right way to do this. I think you've just you're both, you've got to have a lot of conversations to make sure you both understand what you're wanting to get out of it. And like the main piece of advice I have is to try and not be a perfectionist

with all of this, because I've made that mistake before early years, like got pretty messy. And a lot of that was because I was trying to do everything perfectly, not make a mistake, not mess up at all, not hurt anyone's feelings, not get hurt. And like, it just happens. Which is so much pressure babe. Exactly. Sounds so much pressure.

I can't imagine living it. It stops it from feeling fun. Because like really, this is a bit of an experiment. And if you're able to go into it with a, with a bit, it's hard to say because obviously this is the stakes are high and this is scary. But you also need to find a bit of the joy and fun and cheekiness with it. Because if you're just doing this really earnestly and everyone's miserable, like why don't take like, don't, like you have got to find the fun. Yeah, for sure. Can I ask like what age was you and like how did you start exploring? Or had you always like been open?

You'd never had one monogamous relationship. No, I'd had lots of monogamous relationships before. I also, from being like fairly early in my teens, I've just been in relationships a lot. Like this is the longest that I've been single for a long time. And even then, am I technically single? Because I do still have like, you know, some long standing relationships and like friends who I hook up with, but I don't have like that primary partner person. All of this came into my life in my early 20s. And kind of by accident, I just like was on a dating app and matched with a guy

who said that he was polyamorous. I'd never heard that word before. I looked it up and was like, oh yeah, I mean, I guess I'm just looking for something casual. That doesn't really matter to me. If I'm honest, I'm kind of curious about what that looks like. And so I got to know him and his, one of his girlfriends really well and sort of could be like a fly on the wall in their relationship. And they like looked after me quite a lot in me discovering more about this world. And when that relationship ended with both of them, it wasn't, it ended like amicably as well, but it wasn't me being like, okay, I tried that on anyway, let's just get back to monogamy. I kind of like opened a door

and I was curious to learn more. And so since then, I've been open in some way or other. It's not it's changed, you know, it's been a decade, it's changed a lot. But my norm now is like, why would you not make out with other people on a night out? Yeah. And for some people that's like totally a hard line, not something they're interested in, that's fine. But I could imagine being slightly more monogamous in the future, probably unlikely to be honest, but like, I don't ever want to be able to compromise.

Like if I'm on a night out and I'm dancing, making out is just like an extension of that sometimes for me. Yeah. And that feels very normal. That feels fun and cheeky and playful the vast majority of the time. And then on top of that, having multiple sexual and romantic relationships

enriches my life. I really enjoy it. And I feel like that would be like helpful and healthy. You know, that whole like new relationship, like excitement and vibe, and you're going to pick up new things, then bring that back to your other partners. Just a world of like knowledge and like expanding what's already there. And for some people that like constantly there being new things is going to be off putting, like they actually want something that feels really solid to the wrong word because I

think you can still feel that in open stuff but you know they really just want to like know where they stand. For me it it constantly like reminds me who I am it like helps me express different versions of myself you know like there's someone I've got a partner who I've been with for five years and we see each other maybe like three or four times a year. The ways that we interact and the conversations we have feel really different from a lot of the other friends and like partners in my life. And I really value that little pocket, that relationship in my life.

And that side of you, I guess, that you don't get to be as often until you see that person, you're just like, this is this Ruby, and then, oh my God, I love that. And that's not, if we were like just friends, I'd still get a version of that. But then for me, what friendship is and what like romance and sexual interactions are are can feel a bit more blurred with more people in my life. Yeah. I talk about like sexy friends and like building sexy friendships into your life in the book quite a lot because that was really helpful for me.

Almost taking the pressure off of being like, I've got two girlfriends and five boyfriends or like whatever, just being like, no, I've got all these lovely sexy friendships. And that's such a nice way to put it. Does it feel like I'm just talking about this like weird utopic universe? No, honestly, you're like, making me like see things from a different perspective. Like the thing that really stepped in is like when you said, just because someone's giving someone else love, it's not taken away from the love they're giving me, which is groundbreaking. I never thought that I thought there is like this pot of love and like if you've used 90% I'm only left with five. Like who made that?

Well there's another five as well there babe, maths. This is why I'm on OnlyFans and not on Countdown, okay? We could make that a collab, like a hot countdown. Filthy words only. Hey, I've, Carol Valdeman's fit. Isn't she? Teach me maths and spank me, mummy. This is so off topic, but who's your wed crush? Mine's Louis Theroux.

I don't know what it is. See, we were talking about this ages ago and you couldn't think of one. You've got Louis Theroux. I see it. I don't fancy him because he feels too similar to my dad. We're not going there. Should we hang out? I think my dad's wife would probably not be as into that because they are monogamous.

And also if you start dating my dad. What a fucking plot twist for this podcast. Okay you, I think I think Luthor is monogamous and married but you pursue some lookalikes of him. Carol if you're listening. Also she's kind of in and out in open relationships. Is she? She's spoken about it before publicly. Like, I think there are so few celebrities who are like open about this

because you just get kind of typecast and so easily sexualized and especially for women. I think there's just, it's like less permissible. But she said on podcast before, like she's done with like marriage and with one relationship and she has like lovely gentlemen friends and like everyone's on board, everyone knows what's going on, but she just like has these nice friendships and then has alluded to the fact that there's like

sex involved as well, but there's just more than one of them. That's so gangster from her, I love that. She's in my club, oh my god, I would die. Can we get all our listeners to DM her? Please come on up, our girls. Carol, we love you. And she's really political. She's amazing. Okay, actually, put someone else on your roster, Carol. Two.

I'm joining. Ruby, I feel like you've really opened my whole mind of this whole polyamorousorous open relationship kind of thing. If anyone's listening at home but they've already got a relationship guy in for like, I don't know, a few months, a year, whatever it is, but they want to try and explore this, what's your tips? How would we? Can you guess what my first tip is? No. Buy the book. Oh, of course. Yes. That's a great place to start. I hate doing this plugging but it's also really important.

Like there's a whole chapter called How to Open Up a Relationship Without Fucking Up. Perfect. Because majority of the time when people are looking to this, I'd say they're already in a relationship and that can be really daunting. But it's very doable if you want to kind of give this a go, see how this feels, research, read, listen to podcasts, do like talk to people, but don't take everything as gospel for you. Right.

Because I definitely spent three, four years at the beginning of this reading stuff and just being like, that's the way you do it. And like, not questioning stuff myself and creating like my own kind of landscape and world. So everyone's advice and insight is stuff that you then get to consider and be like, how does that relate to me? Does that sit with me? Does that not? You don't have to pick up everything that everyone says.

Right. That makes sense, I guess, because then if you did just read what you're, you know, you said you read certain information, you're like, right, I've gone from monogamy and being told what to do in monogamy, and now I'm being like told what to do. To like another set of rules. And not monogamy.

So yeah, going in with a bit more of an open mind, just really trying not to fall into that trap of being a perfectionist about all of this and being like, I'm not going to mess this up at all. Because it like, that's an inevitability. It's about how you move through that and how you are honest with yourself and communicate through moments that are difficult rather than avoiding the difficult stuff. Find some friends who are also in these communities who you are not fucking. Yes.

That's a good idea. That was a safe space. It took me years to actually have mates who I wasn't like sexually or romantically involved with. And that's complicated. Like sometimes you just need some platonic mates to have a sounding board. And especially if you're like, you're new to this and everyone you know is monogamous and then the only people who you know who aren't you're like in a relationship with in some kind of way it's tricky. I think finding friendships is really important. That's so true

because I feel like my first ever free sim was with a couple who were open and I was just like the extra I didn't know of who else that was like having sex on the side. But for me, I started to have strong feelings for the girl and I was like, if only I had friends who were in a similar situation that I could speak to and be like, have you been in this situation? Then maybe I would have run with that more or maybe my next relationship would have still been like non-monogamous because I like that set up and dynamic, but because I didn't have any friends to sound off of. You kind of need to find your little safety net in yourself but also within like mates and lovers and all that kind of stuff. Yeah and hopefully this is what this podcast is going to do because I felt so like alone in going through that experience but hopefully us talking

about it like we would love to hear everyone's stories, won't we? And like have a community, I guess, of people to be each other's sounding boards. And yeah. Oh my, exactly. That's the dream. That's what this is all about. And do like, if you've got specific questions about any of this stuff, I'm really curious to hear. And also if you disagree with this as well, like I'm not, I mean, say it nicely, let's not be dicks to each other, but like I'm really down for there being different opinions about this. But like we learn so much about ourselves and each other when we like hold different opinions up against each other. Definitely. Yeah. We want to hear from you guys.

Our email is hello at ins and outs pods.com. My book baby is called The Non Monogamy Playbook and I have been told to say this because it's important if you like this if you're interested in getting the book then pre-order it please apparently it's really important because it like all contributes to the first week of sales and all of that stuff can you can you feel me like cringing as I say all of this? You shouldn't! We all love you here! That's why everyone's listening we love you we love all your information and we're going to get you to Time's bestseller so everyone pre-order the book.

Yeah we'll put all of the links and stuff in the show notes. We are going to be back next week with another episode but until then, muah! Bye angels. Bye.