The Ins & Outs - December Garden Tasks & Rug MASTERCLASS

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Jojo educates us on how to protect your bathroom surfaces from little boys bad aim, while Polly discusses what to do in the garden this December.We get a renovation update from Polly and Jojo gives us a rug sizing masterclass. Plus, what are worms doing in Jojo's fridge?!InstagramPodcast - @the_insandouts_Jojo - @houseninedesignPolly - @pollyanna_wilkinsonProducer Andy - @andy_rowe_WebsitesJojo - https://www.housenine.co.uk/Polly - https://www.pollyannawilkinson.com/Pod Rowe Productions - https://www.podrowe.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Green, the colour of true elation, pine on a summer's day, see I've been waiting for you, waiting for you. Hello lovely Inies and Outies and welcome to this week's episode of the In's and Out's podcast with myself, Jojo Barr, and the gorgeous Pollyanna Wilkinson. This week, I'm excited to say that we're being sponsored by Colombo Hearst. Colombo Hearst is an award-winning, independent property buying agency in London. With over 25 years of prime London residential property experience, they offer a combination of detailed local property insight, enhanced access, and a tailored approach to property buying. Now, I used Colombo Hearst when we were looking ourselves for a house. So if you're really busy and you just don't have the time to find a house, they get in there with all the agents. They know the people underground,

properties that might not appear that they're on the market, they will find them for you. So if you're on the hunt and you're really busy and you need help, please speak to Colombo Hearst. They are absolutely fantastic. Go to www.colombohurst.com.

On this week's episode, Polly has finally showered. A renovation update, how to deal with little boy's bad aim, what to do in the garden in December, I give you a rug sizing masterclass, and why are there worms in my fridge? Let's jump on in. Good morning. Hello, my queen. Oh, that's a new one. Does that make you my queen?

My queen. You are my garden queen. Okay. How are you, my darling? I'm very well. Oh, no, but I don't want to waste any time talking about me tell us okay what does she get what did she get what part in the nativity she got she got narrator that's amazing it's not really because it's one line there are lots of narrators there's 11 narrators oh like i said she doesn't care i reacted like well done darling that's amazing she's a badass role that's a great role i didn't realize they shared it quite across quite so many children but you know they've got a big class let's face it there's like six roles

in this show isn't it i think there's definitely like uh the kids are going to choose to do the big roles they're going to be kids that are really confident, aren't they? Because I don't want them standing up there like, freeze, can't speak, terrified. Sometimes that's quite good for them, isn't it? Yeah, but I guess on show day, they're not going to really want that, are they? Anyway, she's a narrator. Okay, amazing.

It's not as exciting as a tree or a donkey or anything. The costume is infinitely less exciting, let's face it. It is. Yeah, it's just a smart dress, I've been told she has to wear. Well, that's cute. So I said I'd get her a nice little nice dress, probably from Vintage. Well, you get one of those like tartan ones. I'm slightly obsessed.

Do you remember when we were kids and it was a lot of like Laura Ashley tartan? Yeah, like woolly tartan and stuff, wasn't it? Do you know, I actually was with her. I took Zig's ice skating the other day, which was so nice, a monodor today. And we went into this, there was a Red Cross charity shop. And I always think charity shops are a really fun place to take little girls. They find them really fun because there's all sorts of stuff they can look at. Like little bits of China wear and, you know, clothes and random bits and toys.

And she found this purple, there was a purple woolly beret. And she, oh my gosh, it's's so it's so sweet on her and I was like yeah it was like two pounds 40 and I was like yes having that and now it's like her favorite thing she bounced off to school wearing it today and she's like mommy everyone loves my hat so anyway so that's it so she's a narrator so I know I feel like that's a bit of a you know anti-climax no I think that's how it is. I think that's a majority of parents' journey here, isn't it? Yeah.

Of course, Rocky's an angel. She's an angel because I think when they're very little, they're all angels, aren't they? There's just a mass of angels, which is quite sweet. Oh, they're just sweet with their little coat hanger. They do. Coat hanger halos. We actually, at that school, we actually actually have to you don't just sort of turn up

on the day of the nativity you have to get tickets and there's only two tickets per family and there's a slot and they do sort of one after the other

they must be exhausted these kids they have to do they don't just do the nativity once they do it like five times because the school hall

is so small I have to squeeze this all in otherwise you get like you know granny and grandpa and aunt and uncle everyone wants to come and see you know you can't I know but that's quite nice isn't it I to squeeze us all in. Otherwise you get like, you know, old granny and grandpa and aunt and uncle,

everyone wants to come and see, you know, you can't. I know, but that's quite nice, isn't it? I can't get all in me. They can't all get in there. They can't all get in the hall, can they? No. I feel like if you're a sort of, I feel like, do you feel like if you're like a Mary or a Joseph, you should be able to let more relatives in. There should be sort of a bigger allowance for kids.

There is actually so much to catch up on this week. There's some really funny stuff I've got to share with you. Tell me. It's going to be a massive overshare and it's going to be really gross. So do you want to go piano first? All right, well, let's get the boring bit first. What's the piano?

Well, I am now playing a few Christmas bangers. Epic, yeah. Yeah. O Come All Ye Faithful. epic yeah yeah um oh come all ye faithful um i've been given uh the snowman snowman song to practice that's actually quite tricky because my hands are starting to move about a bit now i could sing to that one with you that would be nice wouldn't it that'd be lovely and you'll be pleased to know that i have been practicing um green it's the color of trillation. And I'm very pleased to tell you that it's about five notes.

So it's very easy. Yeah, fair. So I kind of nailed that one. So I'm excited to share that one with you all. But you have to sing though, Polly. That's the deal. I will play it. You have to sing it.

Gosh, you're all in for treat aren't you okay fine uh now tell me the gross thing the gross thing so I I don't I don't know if I've shared this with everyone I did a um I did a business course about probably might be two years ago now 18 months ago I did a brilliant business course and there was this absolutely amazing, totally fabulous woman called Sarah Worley, who I've now since become sort of, I'd say, friends with. And she's very inspiring. And she owns the Key Clinic, which specialises in essentially removing the barriers that prevent individuals from reaching their full potential. And it's all through understanding what's going on in the gut. And so it's unlocking learning and behavioural difficulties and neurodiversity and mental health concerns. So what they do is they carry out a full sweep of tests from urine to stool to blood to saliva, all in a very sort of efficient way. And all this testing gets sent off and you have this sort of one-on-one consultation with someone. Now, it's very hyper-focused around children

because there's a huge link between the gut and ADHD and autism and things like this. So there's ways that you can help support those, you know, neurodiversities with controlling what you put in your mouth. So it's brilliant. But also, so I'm doing this test myself because I think there's certain things that I, at my age, I just want to know if there's anything going on in my body that I could alter, that I could change, things that I could do differently. When do you ever get a chance to get a full head to toe testing of all your bloods and everything so that's the serious part so I'm

really excited because I've only got one more test to do I've got the saliva test left to do and there's an awful lot of like the urine test you have to do in the dark there's one you have to do you literally get up in the morning in the dark this your urine cannot see the light of day so you have to wean a pot in the dark sort of with your you know and then put the lid on tuck it into a black bag and send it off the stool test I relate to this hard because I'm having to do one for my child at the moment. And I got to tell you, it's a low point scooping your child's turds into a pot. It is honestly repulsive. So you, it's a real like, mummy needs some alone time. So for three days, three days in a row, you have to poo on what looks like a sort of hot dog tray.

You know, when you get good at those little... How? Well, interestingly, when you go to do a poo, the first thing that usually happens is a bit of wee comes out. And you can't, the wee cannot transfer to the poo. So you can't have wee in this specimen. So the first day I went to do it, it all went wrong. It just all, I was like, oh God, it's all going wrong. And then it's like you're trying to, because you're trying to do it over the toilet, of. It just all, I was like, oh God, it's all going wrong. And then it's like, you're trying to,

because you're trying to do it over the toilet, of course, and you're trying not to wee on the floor. Okay. Anyway, day one, fail, epic fail. Good try though. Day two, I was like, right, we first get that poo. So you somehow poo in this thing and you don't know how much is going to come out.

And sometimes you just don't understand. You don't, you don't look at how much poo comes out sorry guys this is so graphic and i i'm gonna go for it because i just think it needs sharing so there i am having my poo into this hot dog tray and then what you have to do is sit there with this poo but looking at it like inches from your face with a little spoon a little plastic spoon spatula and you have to take different sections of the poo and put it in this pot of water so not just one because obviously there's the beginning part of your poo and then the end and apparently they sort of hit different parts of your digestive tract

so getting three scoops anyway day one did gross got it done you have to put it in the fridge yeah back to the fridge you don't want to be faced with that when you're cooking dinner no so i did that real quick so did it at day one done did you pop a little bag so yeah bag first obviously it's not oh yeah yeah i mean like super clean no bag bag bag bag it back the fridge day two i did the same and i was like, there's something, what's that? There's something moving. No. Yeah, there's a worm.

I had worms. Guys, I had worms. I discovered I had worms from doing a poo test. I fully freaked out, like you've never seen i moved so fast like this thing went in his plastic oh i scooped it as fast as i could shove the lid on shoved it ran into the ran to the car jumped in the car down to the pharmacy jumped out like my kids have got worms my kids have got worms what do i do obviously blame the kids because there's like five people in the pharmacy was your bum itchy yes i think now in hindsight yes yes well i didn't discover that it's highly contagious so apparently if you've got it the likelihood is all of your family have it so i got this you've got to all

take you all take the banana take the banana syrup stuff. So I instantly like just, and then Brad came home that night. I just like shoved this syrup in his mouth. He's like, what's that? And I was like, oh, it's worms. And I was like, who's got worms? And I was like, I do. I do. I do.

I do, babe. So that is just horror. Did you have to message your friend and say, I'm'm really sorry i've done the poo test but there might be some wrigglers i've got nothing to wipe my tears on except for this fabric sample i'm using a tory murphy fabric sample to wipe my tears away sorry tory did that nullify the result though, pal? I don't know. And this is the mortifying thing.

Now I know. So now I have to sit with my consultant when she gets all the results back. The first thing she's going to say is, you've got worms. And I'll be like, oh, I know. I know. That part of the testing, I know. I know that's dealt with. They come wiggling out at night.

No, they don't. Tell me that. No, no. It's out. That's night. No, they don't. Tell me that. No, no, it's out. That's why. No. You've got to get a torch and have a good look. And there they are. They look like little, well, you know, Jojo, you've been eye level with them in your turd. Little white maggots, but they're thinner. It's making me itch from everywhere. My whole body is now itching. I can't bear it. It's disgusting. It's just horrific. Horrific. A good dose of Sudocrem on the bum hole is the only way to stop itching for the kids, by the way.

I'm a pro at this now. Good, good, good times. Anyway, so that's surely enough of a catch up from me, pal. You need to now give me your catch ups. Come on. What's been going on at home? Exciting week Come on. What's been going on at home? I've got an exciting week. Well, what's been going on at home?

Did you sort your bath situation? Let's hit the bath side first. Bath situation? Bath is here. Okay, fabulous. That was Betty came through. So I have my bath. I sent back my backup bath.

I feel like a new woman because I had a shower yesterday. That was the first one I've had in over a week so at your friend's house yeah it's so amazing honestly I feel like a new woman I've got I've been on the dry shampoo I've been you know best friends with a flannel and so to have a shower was great so uh that's good and then but but it's just exciting Christmassy things going on. So number one, I chose my advent calendar. Okay. Guess what I went with. Oh, you like a beauty one, don't you?

I do, but I didn't go beauty this year because all of them have so much. They've got loads of skincare, like moisturizers and those sorts of things. And actually, I've got my skincare routine down and I'm very happy with my products. So I thought they would all just go to waste. So I went with something else. What do I love more than anything in the world makeup no that's not what I love most in the world Georgia it's cheese I've got a cheese advent calendar that is a really really good idea so cool right it's by the cheese geek and they said they love the cheese geek they

sent it in three tranches because obviously like it It needs to be cold. Yeah, but also like space in the fridge. So I just, yeah, no beauty calendar for me this year. It's a cheese calendar and I'm here for it. Secondly, I've got two food related updates for you. Go and tell me. I'm really excited about this because I've wanted to do this for ages. I'm also growing mushrooms. There's this amazing, amazing company called Cayley Brothers, who actually are not brothers.

It's sisters. It's two sisters. They're awesome. I'm so inspired by them. But they named their company Cayley Brothers because their, I think it was their grandparents or their great grandparents, had a green gracer in Molesley, funnily enough, which is where I used to live. And so they've kind of kept the family name because they were, you know, green roses back in the day. So they call it the Cayley brothers, but they're two sisters and they grow mushrooms. They have a mushroom farm and they sell these mushroom growing kits. I'm growing lion's mane. Amazing. It's going to be like a badass

mushroom, right? And also... Yeah, I take that every morning. I take Lion's Mane every morning. I will be able to supply you with that from my miniature mushroom farm. Wow. How cool is that? Like, I don't really understand how it works. It's only just arrived. I'm very excited, but I have wanted to try these like mushroom kits for ages.

I think that's actually a really cool Christmas present as well. But look, mate, the most important thing I need to talk to you about. I now am the proud owner of a very beautiful downstairs loo and I will soon be the owner of a very beautiful upstairs bathroom. My children, I have boys and let's face it, I don't think it matters what age they are. Aim is questionable with the male sex. And I will often go into the loos and find wee on the floor and the seat, and sometimes even on the walls. That's welcome to the joy of mum life.

Yeah, that's boys. But it is boys, right? Yes, boys. Anyway, it's boys. They've got a hose. Boys stroke men. Boys stroke grown men. So the journey I'm going through at the moment is I've got these beautiful new floors.

They're all natural stone because that is definitely my vibe. And urine and natural stone doesn't really go together. It can stain it because it etches it. You know, limestone does not do well with acids. So do I need to resort now to one of those carpety round the loo things? Oh, trendy. I know. I don't want to. But equally, i don't want to but equally i don't want like

wee stained floors it's a real this is a really tricky one because like like me i like natural materials and obviously natural materials like limestone or terracotta all of these are quite porous and same as you pal it's not just little boys, it's also little girls. Because what little girls do is they go to the loo, they have a wee, and they pee so close to the front of the loo, little things. I mean, they have to hold on to the loo seat, otherwise they'll fall in. And then they wee really hard. And when they wee hard, the wee, any mums out there will know exactly what I'm talking about. The wee squirts out between the Lucy and the bowl.

So it's a little gap and it just goes down the front of the toilet and then onto the floor, dribbles down the floor. And then you get this tiny little stain around the base of the toilet. Now, totally fine if you've got porcelain, but if you have got a natural stone like terracotta, which I have in my bathroom, you get these little wee stains and you can't and it's very porous and wee is obviously extremely erosive and it's acid isn't it so it will stain and there ain't nothing you can do about it so apart from just resealing resealing

resealing you've got to actually control how your kids wee I'm afraid but I mean it even it's even happening I have it in my bathroom there's a little ring around the loo now blobs of where they've weed and I've let so any natural surface a bit like whenever I talk about marble in bathroom in kitchens if you're quick to get to it so if you allow a lemon or an acid to sit on a work surface, if you wipe it away quickly, within a minute or so, it'll be gone and it won't do the damage. If you leave it, you know, for sort of an hour, it's going to work its magic and start eroding your surface. Same as we on floors. Yeah, see, I can't police that in the new age. You can't police it, I'm afraid.

So, yeah, you could get some sort of a night you know some sort of mat whilst the kids are little or i force my children to sit down we do people do that do people men sit down we're doing still men are also not always no brad sits down he brad's a sit-down weir is he he is yeah he loves to sit down we sometimes what men do as well this is another warning and i talk about this a lot in downstairs loos yeah downstairs loos you can't just get away with paint down to the down to the skirting board and small toilets because what men do is they men pee and then they sort of give it a little shake the old shake at the end the old shake it shake it and especially boys don't pee in the as you don't pee in straight lines um and you end up getting splash marks on the walls and

of course anything like an emulsion you're going to get marks on the walls so this is why it's great to have um anything like half-height paneling or half-height you know half-height tiles i'm not so sure on half-height tiles i feel it's a bit cold half-height, you know, half-height tiles. I'm not so sure on half-height tiles because I feel it's a bit cold. Half-height panelling is great because obviously it's an MDF moisture resistant and it's got an eggshell bathroom paint on it. So it's really wipeable. But yeah, do think about these things. There's a lot to consider. Okay, so I have your permission whilst I try and train my spawn to have better aim to put down some sort of mat. Yeah. And then if you do your chrome any any

metal actually will erode it doesn't matter what it is if you put any sort of acid or urine on a metal of any sort even chrome it will stain you can mix vinegar with a bit of water and try and rub it gently with a soft cloth but the likelihood is it's done it's damaged and actually this is why i actually really like unlacquered things because i like it i i accept that everything is going to go a bit you know it's going to it's going to change so for instance if you've got polished surface it's going to scratch if you've got like a polished chrome it's going to it's going to erode you're going to get marks on it like that whereas when it's on lacquered it's just gonna go gnarly it's gonna go patinaed and I love that okay so don't go for the perfect maybe don't go for perfect in the first place but also do accept that anything like limestone when it starts getting dotted and you first put it down you're gonna get really

upset because you're gonna get see the odd mark but a year or two later it's going to be much more evenly spread I'm already feeling so precious about my limestone kitchen floors because they're getting scratched as we're moving furniture around. So I've bought those little sticky dots. Yeah, they won't work for long. I know, but the problem is I tried those little rubber condoms, but they're quite unusual. The feet are quite unusual. They don't look that nice. No.

So superglue the little felt things to the underside of the feet because they won't last two minutes otherwise that's a good tip super glue them don't just rely on the sticky bit no the sticky stuff won't last two minutes that's a really good tip okay well anyway i think we're all caught up now gosh that was a big old catch-up i know but there's lots of good old isn't it it's december yeah it's december it's December. Should we just do a little what to do in the garden in December? Because we're here, Paul. Can we do that? Yes, let's. Because I always find this is a tricky time for designers and gardeners because I notice people are less engaged about gardening.

And I do understand it's cold. Christmas is coming. It's all about the interiors. But the frustrating thing is it's actually a really is coming it's all about the interiors but the frustrating thing is it's actually a really important time for planning next year and and also getting ahead of the game don't wait till january to start thinking about things because that's when everyone does it so it's sort of if you get ahead of the game you know so things to do in the garden in december or sort of house and garden garden. If you haven't already, now's the time that you're going to want to put your pots on pot feet. It doesn't have to be a posh pot foot

from the garden centre. It could just be a couple of bricks. But you don't want things like your terracotta pots sitting on the ground. Because if you think about it, they're essentially going to sit in a pool of water. And then that's not the one. It's not going to help with drainage.

Things are going to drown. Particularly, my God, it's so wet at the moment so lift your pots up and you might if you have terracotta pots you might want to consider also protecting them you could wrap them in some um bubble wrap or hessian or whatever but it's going to stop them cracking there's nothing worse if you've invested a really nice pot and then it cracks because it's too cold and wet um oh so to stop that so to stop that happening you literally have to get it off the ground well number one you get it off the ground because if you think most pots have just got one little hole at the bottom and given how wet it is if that gets sodden it the water needs to be able to get out and if you think that surface is sat

against the floor then the water is a scent that's essentially acting like a plug so lifting them up just means that water can easily flow through. But it also just gives that little bit protection against surface cold as well. So both of those things. You can also bring pots inside if you've got a greenhouse or a conservatory or anything like that. So that's sort of a really super simple, easy thing to do and it's worth doing. And if you've got any tree ferns, wrap them in a bit of sacking and whack a little bit of straw in the crown as well because they're not fully hardy

and that'll just protect them from snuffing it over the winter if we have a cold winter. And then, oh good mate, everyone gets so excited about this. There's this big thing in the gardening world at the moment about leaves. It's hilarious. People get so passionate.

So leaves. Some people say rake them off your lawn, rake them, take them off your planting borders, you know, either compost them or whatever. And others are like, you don't need to do that. Did you not? I got some really sassy comment the other day on Instagram being like, didn't you get the memo about leaving your leaves? You're like, ooh, sass. So here's the actual facts. You can leave all the leaves that have literally fallen since storm Burt all over your borders if you want. It acts as a natural mulch. It can kind of protect some of the plants. It's great for wildlife because literally every message I ever

get is like, it's wildlife. And obviously I don't care very much about wildlife. So you can leave them if you want to. Now, me, I have a gravel garden, which is drought tolerant plants. And I don't really want to be locking in loads and loads of moisture over the winter because they won't necessarily like that. So I am actually going to clear the leaves and make them into leaf mould. So to a degree, it's not a dogma. If you want to clear your leaves, clear your leaves. And if you don't, you don't have to. But on lawns, I tend to clear it because whenever I've left them the lawn has gone yellow yes it will bounce back if you leave it

but also I just think aesthetically I quite like it if the lawn isn't completely covered but you could if you wanted to clear your leaves and if you don't want to you don't have to so you know that's quite a nice job for December, isn't it? Like optional leaf clearage. And then now's still a great time to plant bare root roses. So I talked about this quite recently with David Austin. Roses can be quite expensive, but bare root is when they're literally a twig. You buy them as a twig with roots on.

So it's a really cheap way of doing it. So if you want to put quite a few roses in your garden, it's a great of doing it and you'll look at it and go like oh no I want to wait for a potted one because it will grow quicker but they actually won't if you put them in now and you can do it in January as well or even February then you're going to get loads of roses um really quickly and they'll flower next year what's the best place to get where's the best place to get roses well I buy mine mostly from David Austin but there's loads of great suppliers like Peter Beals is also wonderful um but I am a bit of a sucker for quite a few of the David Austin roses I've just put in so I've already got Septodile and um Donahue and I'm now putting in Generous Gardener which is this amazing very very pale pink climbing rose that's just yum just keeps flowering it's probably one of

my favorite climbers so those are like three of your main things to do and then yeah i mean i'm not going to give you loads more to do in december because january is the big old pruning month we're going to do loads of pruning then but even if you just did those three things you think about your leaves and you protect your pots and you whack some roses in if you want some, then I think you're winning. Can I give a tip for outside? Go on. Feed the birds. I'm so glad you said that.

Thank you. Feed the birds is something I say you should do every single month. But yes, you should feed the birds. Feed the birds is something I say you should do every single month. But yes, you should feed the birds. Although my bird feeders, which look amazing, are actually just a squirrel buffet because they're not like squirrel proof. Yeah, I've got those metal mesh things. It's got the balls in it.

Those are good. Those are really good. And I have to say, the other thing apparently is more than anything, it's actually not even so much the food, it's water. Birds really need water. And I saw this trick that if you've got like a plant tray, you know, like a pot tray, you know, those little shallow pot trays, and then you put a big pebble in the middle and then fill it with water and put it out and just make sure that it's always got fresh water in it every day. Because obviously if it freezes overnight,

just change it and give them some warm water. Yeah. Because they really need water apparently this time of year it's a very interesting thing with um feeding birds though and it's quite sad actually is if you get into routine of feeding birds it's really important you keep it up because they will start to become reliant on your source of food and if you then stop making stuff so if you're going to do it do it consistently this is what i would you know this is a really really fun trick to do with kids um if you get a to do it, do it consistently. You know, this is a really, really fun trick to do with kids. If you get a giant pine cone, like one of those lovely old pine cones, the big ones,

it's got big gaps in it. And then you buy just a load of lard, like that really gross sort of lard that you get from supermarkets. And then just buy a massive bag of bird seed. And then you get your pine cone and you you squodge all the light all the lard into it squodge your quash quash quash quash and then you roll the pine cone in all your bird seeds you roll roll roll roll roll and then you hang it up and it's a really fun thing to do with kids because it's all sticky and mucky and like lovely and then all the seeds you stick all over and the seeds are really like you know it's a fun job to do and then you can hang them all around your garden all right let's do some questions all right then i have a question

here from claire how big should a rug be under a dining table i just bought one oh that feels a bit late to ask the question uh thinking i should have gone a bit bigger all the chairs fit on the rug if i go any bigger it will fill up the majority of the floor space. Okay. I mean, general rule of thumb is that the rug should be large enough that the table and all the chairs remain on the rug, even this big bit, the butt, when the chairs are pulled out. Oh, hello.

So this will prevent the chairs from catching on the rug when they're being moved about. Well, you don't want... Yeah, because every time the edge of the rug, every time you pull your well you don't want there's yeah because every time you the edge of the rug every time you pull your chair off and then drag it back on it's gonna it's gonna make the rug sort of pull up isn't it so um uh depending on the sort of i guess the size so say it was an say it was a six i don't know let's should we go with a six seater six seater table yeah you want to go as big as a sort of three metres by sort of two and a half metres.

You want to go big, guys. Go bigger than you think. Because if you tuck your chairs in, when you pull your chair out, you want clearance of about 40 or 50 centimetres to be able to pull the chair back. So it's worth doing an exercise. It's quite big. Sit in your table, push your chair out. Push all your chairs out.

After the chair, i guess you still want like what 20 centimeters but more than that no more like 40 centimeters from when the chair has finished being pushed out you still want 40 centimeters oh i see what you mean so that's sort of almost like the border of when the chairs yeah yeah about 15 centimeters 10 10 10 15 centimeters depending on how much space you've got. Okay, that's a good tip. And to really, really think about the materiality of this rug because it's going under a dining table. So there's going to get food spilt, wine spilt. The chairs are going to go back and forward, back and forward.

It's got to be really hardy. It's got to be able to stand the test of all that sort of back and forth. I see, because it's going to you do which is nothing you can't go with anything like lovely because they're already a bit faded and they are literally bomb proof so i know i talk about persians a lot i know persians are expensive but the amazing thing about persians or you know anything like old antique is that they're so tightly bound um that that if even with sort of hardware and tear they are just they're bomb proof and they will last and they'll stand the test of time and even if you feel you know squidge food all over it you can easily get them cleaned and they will come up

looking like new whereas anything that's sort of a newish it'll be lightly bound it won't be that particularly good quality in the first place it's sort of it newish, it'll be lightly bound. It won't be that particularly good quality in the first place. It's going to mark, it's going to probably maybe stretch. It'll discolour. So, you know, it might be that it's an investment in the first place. Or you go with sort of, I don't like waste, but you could just go with a really flat sizal. Because of the colour, they do tend to hide stains quite well. But you just want to make sure you get it down on a really good underlay

because it's going to move around. It's going to move around. We don't want the corners popping up. You can get really good corner grippers on rugs. So go online, have a look. Corner grippers for rugs and these little sort of black things that you attach to the corner of your rug and they stick down to the floor. Can I just stop you there and just clarify?

Are you doing underlay under any kind of rug? Yeah, underlay under any rug. Whatever it is we're underlaying it. Yeah. It's just a fun word to say as well, isn't it? Underlay, underlay. Just to go back to Claire's question, because she actually said that if she goes bigger, it'll fill up the majority of the floor space. What if you get to the point where by the

time the chairs are pushed back and you've left like 10 centimetres centimeters beyond that you are basically filling the room other than a little bit should you i think you've just got to take you've got to take a little bit of a view on it if it's going to look weird don't do it don't have a rug you don't have to have a rug under a dining table right it's not imperative to have a rug obviously protect the feet of your chairs to stop scratching of the floor protect yourself you know your table legs. But I know people like to do it because I think it creates a little zone and it makes it feel more cosy. Yes. But you also have to take a view on if it looks right.

If it doesn't look right, don't do it. So is there a rule about kind of proportion of, I presume there must be, have a rug if you still have like a third of your floor visible sort of thing? Would that be fair? Yeah, you want to be able to see some floor around it so yes you're not trying to like fake carpet your room no no no like if it's say say your dining room say your dining table sort of in a in a sort of narrow space you definitely don't want your rug touching like wall to wall definitely not no can i i'm gonna hop on this rug question because there are other questions we've had other any questions about it too one thing I've noticed is these rugs that you get that are kind of between your cooker and your kitchen island like a runner yeah little

runners yeah what factors do you use when you're choosing a runner? So the reason a runner purely will go in the kitchen between work surfaces because sometimes you have a big space and it can look a bit empty. It feels, and it's just a nice way to soften and add a bit of light texture. Again, think about the practicality. If you're putting a rug in front of an oven and then you're opening your oven door and spillages and things, it's going to get mucky yes it don't think that rug is going to stay looking good it won't so no it's not practical in the sense that it's going to look

you know a bit like a dog's dinner get something that you can get cleaned easily don't expect it to look good because it's not going to for long so that's just part of it it's a nice soft thing we've covered this before but i'm going to for long so that's just part of it it's just a nice it's a nice soft thing we've covered this before but i'm going to ask again um because we've done dining tables in living rooms can you remind me of the rule with rugs and sofas you want the front two feet on it or all you always want the front two feet so the amount of times i see by the way there is a bit of a rule with dining table with rug with any r any room, really, you always want to ensure that you've got about 30 to 45 centimetres from the edge of the rug to the wall.

So you always, that's a kind of a bit of a rule of thumb. Don't go, don't ever go smaller than 30 centimetres. So you've got 30 centimetres of, I don't know why that is. Clear space. Clear space where you can see your floor. Yeah. Okay. So often I see people with rugs and they've got a little fireplace, you know, with a hearth and the hearth sticks out obviously further than the fireplace. Do not push your rug right up to the hearth. You need clearance. You need some clearance between your hearth

of about 15 centimetres. It looks really odd when people push the rug right up to the hearth. It should not be kissing. They should look like they're going to fight. No, so pull it away from your hearth. And then your rug is there to centre your furniture as well. So you want to pull the front legs of all your sofas onto the rug. Got it. And if the rug is even bigger, pull it even more so.

But you don't want your sofas sitting off the rug is even bigger pull it even more so but do not have your so you don't want your sofas sitting off the rug it looks if they are you should go bigger with your rug and I appreciate I have a lot of expert calls with clients where they're trying to figure out rugs in rooms and sometimes you also have to look at your door swings because sometimes when you go into a living room the door annoyingly opens right in the middle of the room and the door is actually what's stopping you from actually getting a bigger rug so can you take the a living room, the door annoyingly opens right in the middle of the room. And the door is actually what's stopping you from actually getting a bigger rug. So can you take the door? Can you put the door on a different hinge so that it opens into the hallway instead?

Like think about practicality. Like you want to make more of the room. If the door is getting in the way, think about changing the door. Take the door off. I feel like what we need for me, Jojo, is some kind of document. I feel like what we need for me, Jojo, is some kind of document. We need a formula, which is like curtains need to kiss the floor at three centimetres. Should I write a book? Do you think I should write a book?

I think you should, because you gave me a great tip the other day, which was that my curtain pole should be 20 centimetres wider on each side than... At least. yeah at least um oh gosh i hope i did that so that's a good tip i wouldn't have known that there you go pal so i just could you write a book that would be great yeah i could write i'll try i'll try and write a book i'll squeeze in writing a book at some point but these rules are golden these are the things which you know we're all struggling with well i guess i'm in it now with all of these Renault. and youth. Tune in to season three of the She Soars podcast for more hot topics and inspiring speakers from around the world and discover ways we can all take action. Her rights, her voice. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're putting up curtain poles, my loves, your curtain poles actually want to be much wider than the window. Like when you put your curtain pole up,'ll think oh that is way too big like looks you know you want to go sail right past the window because when you stack that curtain but okay so I'm sorry I'm digressing onto curtains from rugs the reason you're going to do that is because it also very much depends how much of a how much you go outside the recess with your pole so on either side whether you go 15 20 30 centimeters depends on the stack of your curtains now the stack is when you've pulled your curtain back and you have a stack of curtains so when your curtains basically open yes um that stack will get bigger depending on how much lining there is

if it's blackout lined if it's got a bump extra bump which means it's got like sort of like that lovely sort of um sort of woolly lining which makes it thicker so if it's just a simple linen curtain then you don't need a big curtain part it doesn't need to but you essentially want to get your curtains away from the reveal so that you're letting as much you're maximizing the width of your window letting more light in making the window appear bigger so where possible go bigger basically on the curtain poles okay gosh Gosh, that was a masterclass. With that, we're out of time, my friend. Well, we've got one more question to ask, obviously,

which is, what is in and what is out this week? What is in and what is out? What's in for me is velvet bows. I can't get enough of them. Oh, yeah. Just velvet, velvet everything. What about you, friend? There was actually a, where did I walk past?

I think it was, I think it might have been Cezanne on Marlborough High Street, which is like my favourite high street in the whole world. It's just the most beautiful high street. And the mannequins had these gigantic velvet bows and this most beautiful burnt orange colour. And they were really puffed up and they were filled out. They were amazing. What is in for me

is worms no worms are out ones out yeah ones they were in and now they're out so that's good bodily um bodily creatures are out never i think i just i might just do a shot of that that stuff that syrup just so i never ever have to go through that again. Just a preventative nip. Gives me the heavies, I tell you. What is in is that it's December and it's time to start opening those advent calendars. The 3rd of December today.

So I think let's, you know, I hope everyone's enjoying those chocolates every morning. Have you got an advent calendar? I do. What is's a lint oh lovely I like that for us I'm the cheesy or the chocolate that seems yeah but here's a question for you do you eat well you're definitely not eating cheese in the morning or maybe you are who says do your kids eat their chocolates in the morning yes yeah it's so funny isn't it it's such a weird thing to accept for the whole of December, your kids are going to eat chocolate in the morning. Although my kids, we've always used to do Lego calendars.

Now they've gone off Lego and now they're into football cards. So they've got a football card calendar. Oh, so they don't eat those? No. So there we are. I know. I really want to do one of those DIY Advent calendars that people do. You can make your own.

Yeah, we'll get to that, shall we? Yeah, one day. Okay, anything else that's in or out? Out for me is Christmas cake. Couldn't care less. Really? Lots of people are doing that. Wasn't it stir up Sunday or something this week, which is I think when people make their Christmas cakes.

I absolutely despise it. How dare you present me with a raisin-based dessert? Oh, really? I see. If it's covered in cold brandy butter, then I would eat it. I'll eat the brandy butter on its own. God, brandy butter and brandy cream is so decadent and delicious. I could literally stick my face in it. Delicious. Oh my gosh. No, it makes me angry that most christmas based desserts are are fruit based raisin oh actually christmas are you a turkey are you a turkey or chicken yeah no me neither i'm not a turkey person it doesn't dry and apparently it's got something in it that makes you go to sleep do you know that makes you sleep it's actually factual this is factual

is this jojo no hold on, hold on. Hold on. I'm going to read one sec. Turkey makes you sleepy. One sec. Okay. Here we go. Evidence suggests the drowsiness occurs because of a compound called tryptophan. Yes, so turkey contains tryptophan, which is an amino acid that can promote sleep.

Is that why everyone falls asleep after Christmas dinner? Probably, and the amount that we've eaten and drank as well. Yes, I think it's more to do with the booze. I think that's actually, I've just realised, turkey on its own isn't a magical sleep inducer. A combination of a heavy meal, carbs, alcohol, and a cosy holiday atmosphere is more likely to be the reason you're ready for a nap after a feast.

Well, otherwise you'd just have some jet lag, be like, pass me the turkey. Yeah. All right, that just have some jet lag. You're like, pass me the turkey. Let me just... Yeah. All right. That's quite enough of that. Which leaves me to say, don't forget to like, to subscribe, to share. You could actually, if you're starting to get ahead of those Christmas presents,

what you could do is just you could write a note in every single Christmas present, just being like, check out the In's and Out's podcast. Or put them in your Christmas cards if you send them. Or your holiday emails. Crackers crackers would be good wouldn't it if you're one of those families that does like a here's a review of our year with the pictures i love those um then pop it in there yeah pop it in there that could spread worldwide baby i actually do think if you popped a little note inside each of your crackers around your table when When it pops open and a note comes out, it says, listen to the ins and outs, go subscribe, review, share with your friends.

I feel like what we've done there is exhaust every single Christmas option in one episode. Yeah, we have done that. We should have held some back. I've got some more. I've just come up with a couple. Wait. Okay, save it, save it, save them, save them.

I'm saving it, I'm saving it. Save them. Okay. All right, my darling. Well, I love you very much. We love you all very much. Thank you, Inners and Outers, for listening again this week.

We love you dearly. Goodbye, my loves. Bye.