The Ins & Outs - Designing Success

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Polly and Jojo are about to show you how to break into the design industry and what it takes to build a successful career.Jojo opens up about the devastating moment that changed everything and turned her life around.Both the ladies let us in on their childhoods, while Polly opens the door to her home to give us an update on her renovation homework.InstagramPodcast - @the_insandouts_Jojo - @houseninedesignPolly - @pollyanna_wilkinsonProducer Andy - @andy_rowe_WebsitesJojo - https://www.housenine.co.uk/Polly - https://www.pollyannawilkinson.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello, Ines and Outies, and welcome back to this episode of the In's and Out's with myself Jojo Barr and my super sexy co-host Pollyanna Wilkinson. This week we're going to go a bit deep, we're going real deep, we're going to talk about our career journeys, the things our parents taught us, our industry highs and lows, how to break the industry even if you are older and a catch-up on Polly's renovation homework. So let's dive straight in. Right, hello pal.

Hello my darling. How are you my love? I'm really well dude. I've had such a good week. Have you? Oh good. What have you been up to? Let's start with a bit of Pozzo. Oh I know. Pozzo Polly. I'm loving it i

bloody love spring it's all about the gardens isn't it i thought this was a fall spring do you know it's not a fall spring so i was talking to some pros i was talking to these brilliant nurserymen and we were debating this is it fall spring don't think it is i think it's real spring it's just an early real spring it is it is isn't it we did briefly touch on that last time because we're like it doesn't feel like it's going to be getting colder anytime soon this is spring so it's like so we're not we don't need to be alarmed now when we see bulbs popping up i i'm gonna go out there i'm gonna go out on a limb and say i think i think it's actual spring okay so if it's actual spring pa, does this mean that the bulbs that are now going to come up early are obviously going to die quicker? And it means that we're going to have, I know that's sorry, because obviously plants have a shelf life.

Plants have an earth life, don't they? Where they pop up and they might be with us for a short time. Well, look, it means that some things are earlier. Because I mean, the cherry blossom is already out and the magnolias are already out and going over. So it means everything's earlier, but it doesn't. Where it's a worry is when it's early and then we have really hard frost or snow. Because what that does is if it kills the blossom, it can kill the fruit. So and the reason that we get concerned about that as gardeners is for the pollinators.

That's what we're caring about, the pollinators. Gosh, it's not about us selfish lot just wanting to look nice, our gardens to look nice. It's about the bees. Yeah, it has an impact. It's about the birds and the bees. Because if it obviously shortens that flowering time and then they can't turn into fruit, it's not good news.

So that's why a lot of us don't like it when it's this sort of fall, spring and then a really cold snap because it's stopping a lot of things in their tracks. But I don't think that's going to happen. So it's more just a case of enjoying everything a little bit earlier totally skipped the old intro there I want to know why you're so pozzo polly today it's just such a great time do you know what it's I think what it is we the cut flower guide came out a week or so ago congratulations on that pal that's pretty amazing amazing amazing but it means it's time to sow seeds so suddenly it's a time of growth.

So it's a time of sowing seeds and sort of starting your garden for the year, which I think is just really positive. And so guys, start sowing your seeds now. I love it. Oh, and I've chosen my builder. I've chosen my builder. Oh, you've got your builder. Gosh, I can't keep up with you, honestly.

My homework. I can't keep up. That's what you told me to do. Yeah, I did actually tell you to do that. When are you planning on starting the works? Mid-April. Wowzers. I know.

And then when are you moving back in? I'm not moving out. You'll love that one. Oh, gosh. I would like to. I know. I've got in the back of my mind Jojo would be absolutely livid. No, it's fine.

As long as you're in a separate part of the house. We're turning the upstairs into a flat essentially okay okay just prepare for lots of noise and lots of dust and lots of annoyance yeah love it doors left open and fag breaks and smoke wafting up through your windows but you've got to let them get on with it let them get on with it yeah no i'm staying i'm staying out of the way trying to find a rental in this area is not easy so I'm doing exactly what you've told me not to anyway enough about me catch me up what have you been up to uh I have been here there and everywhere um we've just we've had an absolute influx of really amazing inquiries and I one of I know

I'm supposed to be saying no but I hate saying no I hate saying no to things and I want to I really want to help as much as I can and and have as many projects as we can but equally I can't it's the sort of balance a very fine balance that anyone running a business will know of having the right amount of resource to manage the projects and also to ensure that I am on every project because if we take on too much my I'm spread so thin that I can't give the projects we've got the attention that they need and that's so important it's such a balancing act and then you know occasionally a project might sort of not come to fruition and you've left a bit of a gap in the you know in the pipeline so you kind of want to make sure that it's it's a real juggling act um i think i don't know if you agree with me there but you're sort of always looking at the you're looking really at the

entire year ahead when you're taking on projects and when the project's starting how much design work's going to be needed and before you actually start on site and how much involvement you're going to have what your responsibilities are so there's so much juggling to be done and we we've had some insanely exciting projects put on our laps and I I just so want to do them and a couple of them are involving pitches which I'm not usually that keen on doing because I don't like going up against people because I think if you want to work with someone you want to work with someone you mean a competitive pitch competitive pitch where you sort of have to put your you know you have to put your ideas forward um and essentially you're going up against someone else um which I don't like usually like doing but when you really want the job you've got to do it it's still got to

still got to I'm really curious about this how do you feel when you get an email saying um yeah we love your work and we'd like to work with you we're going to speak to some other designers too how does that what's your reaction to that how fucking dare you I absolutely don't think like that I've actually no I tell you what I do think is is it a turn on or a turn off it's a bit of a turn off I'll be honest Paul it's a turn off because I tell you why because you do your homework you you know it's up to you to work out if you want to work with someone if you're coming to a designer who's established and they've been around for a long time and you love the work they

do how they charge you shouldn't be comparing someone because of potentially how much they might charge because they're charging fairly we work out how much we charge clients very fairly and therefore I don't want to sort of go up against someone else because they think they might be getting potentially a better deal somewhere else and I don't know if anyone out there is listening going well that's that's really sort of that's the wrong way of looking at it or thinking that's wrong but I guess I putting pictures together and doing the work I don't think people realize what's involved and how time consuming it is it's extremely time consuming when you're sort of you know you're going to visit the house and you're doing the brief and you're putting the package together and you're

trying to you know you're and there's a lot of back and forth and you in your mind you're building up hope and a relationship with that person to then be turned around and they sort of actually we've decided to go this other person because they're you know they're cheaper or whatever it is and it's like well cheaper doesn't necessarily mean a better service cheaper doesn't mean you're going to get a better product but I understand you know we have to work with budgets we're here to try and save money not but I mean no one likes to hear that they're shopping around do they when we get inquiries and they say we're shopping around it's actually a bit like oh well we want people that want to work with us which you know of course I look I would be the biggest liar ever if I was like oh I don't mind no I don't mind doing it because that wouldn't be that would

be a lie and I you know me I don't lie so I'm gonna say it really honestly it's not very nice no and I don't particularly like it and I I I curl up a little bit when I know that I'm going up against someone but when it's a really big job like this one that we've just got I am all guns blazing and we're going for it so let's see and i'll let you know if we get it there's two on the table right now so watch this space i should keep my fingers crossed for you my friend what about outside of work outside of work um i just just life is life is really sort of good at the moment i've got i just feel i feel pretty balanced and I'll tell you why I've been sticking to I've really been sticking to my habit of waking up early and I didn't think it would have such a profound effect on how I feel I think setting a routine because my days

are so here there and everywhere and I can't get routine in my day purely because it's so sporadic and I've got so many jobs going on and every job so you know so different and so demanding and I've got you know all these spinning plates but my mornings have become a routine and therefore when I wake up set my alarm at six and I get up and I go make my lemon water and I have my collagen my my flat white oat milk flat white and I sit and I do my little 10 minute whatever it is meditation and then I do my pil 10 minute, whatever it is, meditation. And then I do my Pilates. I'm now doing my, you know, 25 minute Pilates class in the morning. And then the kids come in and they sit with me and they, and I have, and I feel like a different person, all my anxiety or anything I might have just, it's gone. And I feel like I'm really setting myself up well for the day.

Don't get me wrong. Come eight, nine o'clock. I'm on my fucking knees. I'm so tired. I bet you are. and I'm ready to get into bed at nine but I still feel like that's for me right now really healthy it feels like that's a really good place for me to be in right now when life is so busy that it's giving me that feeling of that sense of control and and peace and quiet in the morning so that's that's been really big for me me. And like I said last week about friendships, it's really funny.

I got some real funny responses from people being like, you're not a shit friend from some of my friends, but you are shit on WhatsApp. You are. I know I'm shit on WhatsApp. Who isn't shit on WhatsApp? But I do feel like my weekends are so precious. They're time with my kids and my family.

And as I said, my parents aren't getting any younger. And actually I had a lovely call from my sister this morning it was a really rare call that my sister called me this morning and she said I just want you to know and I don't think my sister she's three two years older me 18 months older than me I don't think she's ever said this to me and it's not because we don't have an amazing relationship and she doesn't think it I know she does but she said to me I just want you to know that I am so proud of you and everything that you've everything that you've achieved and everything that you're doing I'm so incredibly proud of you and I honestly I really like welled up it made me quite a bit totes emotional actually because we don't probably say it to each other

enough and we're a very close family but our parents are now getting into their late 70s they're 79 both of them and time is feeling like it's sort of precious and I want to be spending all my weekends with them so I feel like everything else is kind of waiting at the moment and I'm in a really good place I feel like it's just putting the things in life that are important before you know all the other distractions I've been pondering this one for a couple of weeks now hit me have you chosen your loo do you know i haven't unlike you paul i obviously am very are you doing a rigorous are you sort of going around

sitting on different ones i'm just going on four out of ten yeah just just that blow dryer i just want that i just want that ass like blowing toilet if you want me what i'll do is i'll just get a hair dryer and we can sort of um just pop it underneath i was probably would you lie on the floor for me i'll do that for you that's a that's a picture for you i'll just ring a bell and polly comes running in with a hair dryer a portable hair dryer i'll lie down with it and you can squat over it oh my god this is turning into a porno there'll definitely be some people out there that would pay to see that you know that it's like those people that buy smelly knickers in like vending machines in vending machines

and what country is that I know that people buy them on ebay I didn't know you could buy them in a vending machine I won't go to the you just go look look it up, pal. That's a real thing. You can buy smelly knickers in vending machines. Not in the UK. Not in the UK. So you haven't chosen one. Well, you're keeping us on tenterhooks with this one, aren't you? I know what I want it to look like. It's just a cake, so...

It's an important decision. It's a toilet that's going to be coming with me for the next 20 years. This is it. So I've got to make sure it's the right toilet. This is it. I do have a couple of favourite toilets. I feel so overwhelmed, pal, with the... Bathrooms are really tricky.

There's... It seems to be either very, very expensive or not very expensive, but not very good quality. So the thing to keep bathroom costs down when you're designing your bathroom is to think about... I mean, evict the idea of marble altogether. If you want marble shower surrounds and marble shower steps and that is going to pump your budget up through the roof another big cost saving is to have like a shower tray like a nice formed shower

tray as opposed to having a tiled shower enclosure where the floor of the tile is the whole thing has to be sort of almost like wedding boarded and then they tile because don't forget it's your tiler's time so if you're tiling you're you're adding on a huge amount of work for your tiler to be tiling little you know little tiles details on your floors and things like that so that's going to be a massive cost saver so just secondary but i mean your bathroom you're going to want to be absolutely baller because it's your ensuite and it's the place you're going to spend the most amount of time so go for it in there but your secondary bathrooms you know think about things like paneling kids bathrooms go paneling

instead of loads of tiles everywhere and do a formed shower tray perhaps well we're not actually going to be answering interiors questions or exteriors questions today are we my friend we're not we're not my friend we're going to delve in a bit here because this week on Tuesday evening I had a speed networking event um by Waterworks, who do the most sexy, the most sexy sanitary wave ever seen. And they organized an event with KLC, which, as most people now know, was my design school 17, 16, 17 years ago. And all the sort of some, I'm going to say top designers were invited along to sit and have a speed networking event where three designers sit with you the bell goes off after eight minutes and in that eight minutes they just ask you every question under the sun that will help them get off on the right footing

in their careers and um and I was overwhelmed and if any of you are listening now absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of you that listened to this podcast. So thank you. But also just how many of you said that you most connected with our career journeys and highs and lows. And therefore, Paul and I thought that in this episode, we might go back there and retouch on those points a bit more and get a little bit deep up in here. on those points a bit more and get a little bit deep up in here. Since I'm truly terrible at keeping up with emails, I use Gemini to give me summaries of my inbox, which is a lifesaver. And if I'm feeling stuck creatively, I just ask Gemini for help and bam, instant inspiration. You can learn more about Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com.

Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power.

Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. girl called Matilda. The family's growing. The Inlands and Outs fam is growing. Anyway, right, sorry, sorry, Stephen. Sorry. Stephen is lucky enough to have a little girl. What have your parents instilled in you that has helped you become the successful and confident women you are in tough careers? Oh, you can start with this one, paul what's made you the badass woman you are today what did your parents instill in you so my parents i i put at the feet of my parents my work ethic they both worked incredibly hard and so they gave me ambition and they were both very very successful in their fields and they instilled that in me i just uh almost took it on by osmosis they modeled enjoying work and enjoying working hard and doing well I put it squarely at their feet that it's my

ambition my drive my commitment uh and the love of my work is solely down to my parents I love them very much I think it's so easy that we put too much guilt on ourselves as parents that we feel like you know we sometimes don't get the balance so we always say we don't get the balance quite right do we with how much we work and how much time we spend with our kids but I think you're right I think if you take the guilt sometimes off yourself in thinking that I'm working to provide a life for my family but also for my kids to look at me and be proud of me when they're old enough. You know, I'm doing this for them.

And I would want them to look at me and think, God, my mum's a badass and she works so hard. And I want them to work as hard as I do because I know what fulfilment it gives you. I don't want to mollycoddle them and think that life's just, you know, easy breezy and I don't work and so i i i agree my um i guess on my side steve my going back to my parents my mum my mum was a nurse um she was a senior practice nurse and my dad was in the wine trade oh hence my absolute love for wine I think I was born with a champagne

cork in my mouth actually which is good and therefore they were great fun and then my ambition I think actually came upon finding the thing that I wanted to do the most which was designing and I didn't actually find that passion until I was 25 so that's when I really knew I wanted to do it my parents always used to say to me if you're going to do something do it properly yeah if you're going to do a job do it properly and I say that to my kids to this day if you're going to do it do it properly I don't half-ass anything and I think probably just because of that and and probably a knockback from various things that happened to me in my later years and um I could go really deep here but um one of my best friends took her own life no uh yeah and um I think that was I don't know what happened it sort of did something to me that

it just sort of spurred me to to do my my own thing and then obviously I was going through a divorce and everything at the time and I that was it. It's like I just suddenly found my calling. I found my passion. A really, really common question that I get asked a lot. And one of the questions that we've had put to us many times from my Q&A this week was, how do I break into the industry? I'm 43 years old. I work as a lawyer or XYZyz I want to be an interior designer now my answer to you hand on heart is don't please think walking into an into a role as

an interior designer is everything that you think it is because it's not it is I think this is a bit of a misconception about being an interior designer um and that it is everything you see in in you know on Instagram we're not very good as designers of showing the real nitty-gritty of what life is really like and therefore I think if you are going to take the plunge and I'm all for people breaking out of their of their you know out of their shells and trying new things and um but just please walk into it with your eyes open that it is it's a really tough it's a it's a tough job you've got to have a thick skin you've got to be very organized you've got to be client facing you've got to manage money and budgets you've got to obviously be extremely creative um very good at

putting schemes together you've got to be great at handling lots of different suppliers and contractors and people you've got to be a real people person so there's an awful lot of things to consider therefore if you do want to break into our industry i would say try and shadow an interior designer get inside a design studio do work experience but i think in this day and age paul i don't know if you'll agree with me i do think you have got to go and study you've got to have some form of qualification even if it's a certificate you know you've got to go and get that qualification yes I would say yes I really really strongly do and I know there's designers out there who might even be listening to me now thinking well Jojo I didn't I didn't have a qualification I and I know that's the case

absolutely you can if you if you have the opportunity to say do up your own home top to bottom and and therefore you think you've got enough of a portfolio but it is very very different when you're doing it for somebody else when you're managing somebody else's money somebody else's budget somebody else's time it's a totally different thing to doing it for yourself and so much of it isn't actually the um the fun bit frankly picking the materials or layout that's not it it's actually the study is the bits that are boring and scary so the study is going to teach you for us for example construction detailing which you can't just draw a nice garden they'll be like there you go someone make that for you you have to provide how

that's going to be built and if it is built wrong and you have you have designed something wrong it's on you so it's that study is to teach you the bones of design principles of build principles of why you use certain materials and that you can have done your own house that is not the same as as being taught essentially how to protect yourself and how to design appropriately yeah it's not just you have to go so you've got a piece of paper frankly I couldn't care less what your piece of paper said if you send me um you know whether you've got a distinction or a merit or whatever I'm not really very interested in that it's understanding that you've had a comprehensive education in all the different angles of design not just that you're

capable of putting something nice together that's that's the easy bit Georgie sent in a question it's a long one it's lovely hi Jojo and Polly just want to say that your pod is the total highlight of my week of being an overstretched mum of two young boys a cereal house renovator and trying but failing to be everything to all people ah my love your hilarious and warming chat give me the belly laughs i need to keep going oh darling keep going you can do it thanks love so i have an any question for you i'm in my 40s and living in the countryside and i'm on the brink of finishing my klc diploma in residential design as a mature student it's only only taken me three years. I'd be so grateful if you could share any advice on how a midlifer like me with extensive business and life experience can build a career in design. I am terrified about the prospect of

looking for work experience given everything I have to juggle and being pitted against graduates half my age and being rejected. Thank you so much and long live the ins and outs. Gosh this this this touches me this one because I I feel you I started my career when I was 24 so I was a bit of a spring chicken and I now fully know how hard it is and I when I met all these students this week there were a lot of mature students there as well and they were saying I'm here sitting amongst 20 somethings and we're doing the same course and I feel like if I was sitting in a studio would I be mum of two 40 x years old am I not going to get looked at as well as I would if I

was young younger and actually I've got to tell you as a quite the opposite and myself being in my early 40s with kids quite the opposite I actually would be quite open and understanding of that and actually you've got life experience on your side the only thing you've got to do I think at our age I would say my probably one bit of advice is that you have you probably have to humble yourself because if you think about it you think you're going to know it all and because you are going to have worked for probably companies doing something else on a senior level or whatever you've you've been doing before and you've also been a mum and if you've got life experiences it's sometimes hard I know I'm this person I I would find it hard to go into a practice and not be like

sort of almost feel like I was a bit of a mum like I sort of felt like I could sort of do it better even though I don't have the experience because it's inevitable that as an older woman we feel like we've got you know we've we've racked up some knowledge and therefore that I think would be hard you've probably got to just take a step back and let you know and learn not try and feel like you have to know everything just you know but no I'd feel the age thing I think that's it's I think men and women alike feel that when they're sort of trying to find a job when they're older and they're coming up against youngsters but I think you try and look at it as a positive I see it as a positive for one thing we all know

and actually I had the loveliest clients once that when um actually was feedback to you from our first podcast who said the reason we knew you do a brilliant job is because you are a busy mum. And if you want to get something done, you give it to a busy person. Right. So my team is some mums, some not. And there is there is no difference in productivity. They are all brilliant and incredible deliverers so I would never ever when I was hiring be like oh she's a bit older if anything you are bringing a lifetime of experience of how to communicate with people like communicating with clients is so much of the job

and you need to have confidence and in your in your delivery so I please don't sit there and think you're being pitted against people half your age I think what I would say and I hear in your language you're worried about what you have to juggle what I would say is you need to be available to do the work so if you're if you're saying I can only do a two-day week and you're being pitted as your words against someone that could do a five-day week and it's a busy studio then that's nothing to do with your age or your experience that's just to do with availability um it is you're right and you can't and studios can be really flexible so we are not in a you know it's not nine to five in the office monday to friday anymore covid helped that a lot yeah but you do there's a give and take you i think there's an expectation that employers need to be more

flexible and i believe that we are but that might mean that you also have to be more flexible so the trick the tricky bloody thing is juggling child care and we all get that one clarence i'm on a podcast it's very noisy oh do pipe down clarence shush clarence i'm on a call clarence oh god do you know what my do you know what my cats are named after you know alabama and clarence. I'm on a call, Clarence. Oh, God. Do you know what my cats are named after? You know Alabama and Clarence? It's a trendy movie that I don't know. I can't. Tree Romance.

Yeah, I don't know the movie, dude. Such an epic, epic film. Tree Romance. If you haven't watched that, guys, go watch Tree Romance. It's an absolute belter classic. One more question for this week. What is in and what's out i've got an in i've got an in and my in my in is seed sowing it is time people get your seed sowing get in the garden

and sow some stuff and put it on your windowsills and just start paying attention to nature i'm here for it can you tell i'm full of the vim and vigor of spring i'm gonna say i i'm gonna say what's in is the mornings are getting lighter and if honestly if i could set you a challenge guys for just get out of bed set your alarm for six and start getting out of bed i promise you six I thought you were going to say 6 30 all right no I promise you you will as soon as you're up and out of the bed so actually a really good tip is just as soon as your alarm goes off don't snooze turn the light on and don't reach for your phone I imagine because I could just sit in bed looking at social media for too

long yeah just turn your light on and then just get out of bed and put your dressing gown get some like slippers and dressing because it's being warm in the morning as well which is weird like once you get over that being cold and it's dark and then just go downstairs and make a coffee it's such a good feeling okay so that's my in do you know what i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this for one week as a homework i'm gonna for one week i i solemnly swear i'm gonna set my alarm for 6 a.m not the weekend though not the weekend you might not have any much much time left to watch your tv in the evening though she'll be so tired do you know what i do you know what's out for me winter coats are finally out they're going back are you gonna pack them away i am because i now at the moment i'm wearing a winter coat i'm feeling a little bit like this is a bit

much i think it needs to be back to them back to max you know what i mean but i do there's such a relief when you get to pat them away and suddenly you've got all this space in the cupboard or space an embarrassment what's my renovation homework okay if you are if you're starting which you're starting quite soon if you want a particular oven or um it's one of the longest lead time items if you want anything like a le conch or something in your kitchen it go in there on about six months lead time le conch i beg your pardon le conch is the most beautiful range oven on that note team over to you paul to do the beggy bit oh yeah why is mine the old beggaroo aren't i um you beggar so you're not going to do it because no one ever does but please remember to like and subscribe

and follow us and share us with your loved ones because we love you and as you know we apparently really like praise yes egos i'll stroke our big old ego driven heads. No, I'll stroke your ego. Stroke your ego, babes. Have a fantastic day and I'll see you very soon. Yeah, 6am club. 6am club. All right, love you. Yeah, 6am club. Set that alarm.

Bye. The color of true elation. This episode is brought to you by Google Pixel. I'm Jessi Cruikshank. I host the number one comedy podcast called Phone a Friend. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel. It's a phone powered by Gemini, your personal AI assistant. Gemini can help you summarize your unread emails, suggest what to make with the food in your fridge,

and it helped me achieve a family photo where everyone is smiling at the camera. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9. Learn more at store.google.com. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.

So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.