The Ins & Outs - North or South, the 40 club and Cougars

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Today we are having a right good catch up and talking all things light, from what to do in the garden in September, to what to paint your East facing living room - we've got you covered. This week's episode is brought to you by Best Heating. Complete your lovely radiator look for half the price! Choose any Best Heating radiator (excluding electric models) and get a delightful 50% off your favourite valves. Just use code INSVALVES at the checkout to get the perfect finishing touch for your new heating beauty.Make sure you check them out at https://www.bestheating.com/.InstagramPodcast - @the_insandouts_Jojo - @houseninedesignPolly - @pollyanna_wilkinsonWebsitesJojo - https://www.housenine.co.uk/Polly - https://www.pollyannawilkinson.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Green, the color of true elation, pine on the summer's daisy, I've been waiting for you, waiting for you. Welcome back inies and outies to the first episode in our new season of the ins and outs with myself Jojo Bar. And myself, Pollyanna Wilkinson. On this week's podcast, we are going to be having a right good old catch-up after a very long. long summer. Kids are back at school. Polly joined the 40s club. So we're going to be having a little lowdown on Polly's birthday, Napa Valley. We are talking all about light on this episode. So we're going to do a bit of a deep dive into light and one of my favorite subjects, north, east and west facing houses. Pros and cons on that one. I'm also going to be taking

you back a little bit to when I was a cougar in Australia. Coming up this season, we are going to be deep diving on all sorts of different subjects every week. So we're going to try and keep it a bit more focused. And our episodes are now going to be available to watch over on YouTube. Aren't you lucky? This week's episode, we are sponsored again by our lovely friends at Best Heating. Complete your lovely radiator look for half the price. They're giving us a very toasty offer.

Choose any Best Heating Radiator, excluding electric models and get a delightful 50% off your favourite valves. is the Windsor, by the way. Just use code Inns valves at the checkout to get your perfect finishing touch for the new heating beauty. Fun fact, JoJo. Tell me. I was actually admiring my valves today. Is that what you call them? I've got the beautiful wooden ones. And is the sort of thing I would never have paid any attention to before, but my God, they are a thing of beauty. They are. They are. They are a stunner. They're just one of those things you can take it for granted. But actually, there's no reason why you can't have a classy valve. You've got to have

The classy vows, babes. And mine are dead classy. Dead classy babes. Yeah, they are the Milano Windsor valves and they are chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. Thank you very much. Best heating. Well done, best heating.

Right, let's get into it, my love. Hey, sweet cheeks. How are you doing? It's so nice to see your lovely face. Oh, gosh, it's been a while, hasn't it? It has, it has been a while. We obviously had our little catch-up, but we have now. got to have a monumental catch-up at the end of what feels like it's been a really long summer,

doesn't it? I can remember. It's been the longest summer of all time. Do you know what makes it? I was thinking that this is quite funny because every time I feel like I speak to it at the end of a school, holidays, I'm always the one you're like, oh, God, get the fucking kids back to school. And I'm always the one that's like, no, do you know what? It was really nice.

I am now, no, I'm now right there with you, pal. I was just like, get those fucking. kids to school. I obviously goes about saying we love our kids. We want to, you know, love being with him. But my God, it's relentlessly exhausting. And if I hear, I didn't think children could say, I did start something actually in the summer holidays

where when every time you hear your child say, mummy, you do a deep squat. Now I thought by the end of the summer holidays, I can have buns, buns of steel. I mean, I couldn't sit down on the toilet like day one. I was like this time. And forget this. This is, it's a form of torture hearing your name said 847 times a day.

Mommy, mommy, mommy. It's, like, the kids are standing right next to you and Daddy's there. Daddy's here. Daddy's there, darling. You could ask Daddy. Or don't you ask Daddy? But no, it's Mommy, Mommy, Mommy. Anyway, so mine went back this morning.

It's the fact that you can never get them out. You know, they have to wait for you to respond, yes, before they will continue the sentence. Yeah. it's just yeah it's it's it's it's relentless you know the um oh what was that movie is it the ring where that woman crawls out of the television and it's like this creepy that was me at the end of the holidays creeping crawling towards the finish line being like meek and obviously just what I really love about schools is just the inset days right at the end to just like just two extra days

with no camps or anything which you have to deal with we're recording this on a Friday everyone and my kids went back to school today this morning. I would look, there's small disclaimer, my biggest went back to school today. My second has impotigo, which we first thought was a cold. Then I thought hand foot and mouth. Then I was like, oh, shit, it's impotigo.

So it's not very pleasant to look at a poor little thing. So she didn't get to go back to school today. But we've just got back from a week, well, six days in Cornwall. We booked a little house down there for me and my sister and the kids. We went down as a little family. and it was, we grew up going down to Cornwall so it was like our place to go in the summer with the family and so we thought we'd go down

just to sort of remember Dad because we hadn't been down there in a long time and we thought you know it'd be really nice to take, you know, mum down there and it'd be, we can all be together and drink some wine and, you know, reminisce and we said to mum, right, we've got put this place and we're really excited

and she's like, oh no darling, I don't want to go to Cornwall Oh yes, I remember you seen in the summer episode, you know, no thanks no darling, I'm actually going to go to Portugal going to Portugal with the friends. So I was like, oh, right, okay. Yeah, I know. Good, good on you, mum. So we've just had six days.

And, of course, the weather changed the day we went down there. So it just pissed with rain relentlessly. But isn't Cornwall just so good? Here's the thing. We went to, as you know, we had 10 days in Puglia in the beautiful Italian countryside, drinking red wine, taking the kids to a lovely beach. And it was just beautiful. Delicious.

And then six days on the English coast in the pissing rain. Colsey, windy, eating sort of, you know, English ice cream, which is nothing, not a patch on, Italian, gelato. And what do you, which holiday? I asked them yesterday on the drive home. What do you prefer then? She prefer Cornwall or Italy, which do you prefer? Because it's a year on year now.

Which would you, where would you prefer to be in there? Oh, Mommy Cornwall. Oh, I love Cornwall, Cornwall. So it just shows you kids don't care. Kids do not care. That's nice. About all this fancy pants stuff. Did we eat a lot of pasties?

No, I don't like capacity. I think it's the sort of thick. I know. I'm not a fan. I tend to sort of like... What about scrumpy? Did you have some hardcore cider? God, I love a good scrum.

No, I drink a lot of beer, though. Did you drink a lot of beer? Not old. Okay. Yeah, a lot of beer. I think I've actually maxed out now. I think I've got to that point. I need to stop drinking.

I had too much, too much drink. But we had a really lovely time. But isn't it a funny thing, though, that you can, when you can, when it sort of comes to the end of the school holiday. and you are flat out exhausted. I mean, like, you love your kids so much, but it's amazing how you can love something so much, but dislike them so strongly at the same time.

Isn't that funny? Oh, my God, I think one of them, it's one of them creeping in the door. I can hear them creeping outside. Look, they found me. They're back from school. Anyway, so that's, in short, a really lovely and very long summer, but I am so looking forward to getting my teeth stuck in stuck back into just a whole day of

non-interruption of no kids interrupting me I'm so looking forward to that and tell me have you last time we spoke you were telling us about a vibrating chair have you been back on the vibrating chair how's that pelvic floor no you know how I haven't had a chance but I literally haven't had a moment to myself honestly no I look forward to that I need it for you for my friends still no trampolines. Actually, you'll love this because I know you love a viral trend, my friend. Always. Yes. There's a viral trend going around, which is these really simple exercises. I think it's five exercises where the first, you, one minute each exercise, and that's it. And you do it every morning and every night. Of course, I did it like three times and then I gave up.

But every morning, before you eat or anything, you jump on the spot, jump, jump, jump, jump, one minute, jump, arms and everything loose. Second one, you slightly bend your knees and then you lift your arms up and down like a wave, up and down, like a wave, and do that for one minute. And then you pick hands on your boobies and then you do this sort of this move. What move? It's like a left, right. Can you see my arms around?

Like a ruck. Yeah. With my hands on my chest. Like a chicken. Like a chicken that goes sort of back and forward, back and forward with the arms. And then the other one is this one, so opposite arm. arms wave that one for a minute. Well, like, are you doing just round in circles opposite arms?

Are we back in gym class? Imagine I'm swimming backwards like that. Oh, like that in 1960s dance, like the mashed potato or similar. You got it, that one. And then the last one is the golfer. You know, you just swing your arms. Like I said, if you're practicing a golf swing. And why are we doing this?

What is this doing? It's meant to keep you, loosey goosey, keeps everything limed up, gets the flood, the lymphatic drainage going. but it is actually, you do feel very good afterwards, I have to tell you. I will share it for you all to do. It's actually, genuinely, it's actually really enjoyable after you've done it. You're like, oh my God, I feel so awake and I feel alive and everything sort of feels like it's loosey-goosey. Love this.

I mean, now that you've turned 40, now that you're in the 40s club with me. Yes, I want to hear all about your birthday. Are there any exercises that you'll be doing on joining me? Because when you turn 40, let me tell you, we're told that everything stops working for us, ladies. Yeah. Crieking. Someone messaged me, said,

congratulations, you've hit 40. Your ailment will be given to you very shortly. Everyone gets an ailment at 40 and that's it. And you will get given one. What exercise I have, oh my God, speaking of exercise, obviously I've done none, obviously. But weighted vests. I really want to talk to you about weighted vests.

Is this a thing? Have I missed this? I've got a friend that wears a weight. vest they're meant to be really good i don't know if you're supposed to do the school pickup in them or you're actually supposed to do exercise with them on what does it do well i think the idea is that as we grow older so as we get into our 40s our bones start to essentially deteriorate it's fun being a woman isn't it it's really fun yeah i love it cheers cheers my nature um and so if we can at this age maintain our bone density by doing weight sort of like that sort of you know then we will be apparently

our osteo health will be very good for years to come. So basically when you're going on your fart walk, Jojo, you should wear a weighted vest. Very good idea. Yes. A farted weight walk, a weighted fart walk. Yeah, that could be very, that's a pressure to it. Double win. It's a double win.

Yeah. Okay, good. Exercise. The most exercise I've done, my friend, is lifting a wine glass. Yes, my kind of exercise. In the Napa Valley. in the Napa Valley. So what have we done since last I saw you?

Well, yeah, we just, we did the California coast. So we flew into L.A. And then we drove up the coast, which, spoiler alert, half of it is very like Cornwall in terms of its weather. It was cold and rainy, which I was like, this is California. In the middle of summer? Yeah. Something to do with the like warm land, cold air situation. I can't, I don't know.

And, and then we ended up in the Napa Valley. But it was magical. We spent so much time in these incredible redwood forests. And it was, I just cuddled so many big trees. I think Colin thought I was like an absolute psycho. But it was just incredible. These are like 1,400-year-old trees, which are just incredible. Did you feel the benefits when you hug it?

I tried to. Because they do say, you're meant to soak up the good, aren't you? This is it. There's all these, it was saying if you, there's all this research about forest bathing, about, I think it's the fighter scenes. I'm sorry if I've said that wrong, that you can inhale through the trees, which is sort of incredible for your health. So I was there huffing away at the air, and we spent a night in a beautiful, well, not beautiful. It was just a yurt, like a glamping, if you want to call it glamping, except I wouldn't really describe it as glamping.

It was just a tent in the woods. It's just camping. I think that's called camping. Yeah, but it wasn't, we didn't put the tent up. So in that regard, it's glamping, I think. Oh, yes, maybe. Maybe. But then, yes, we were in the woods and that was really magical.

Although in the middle of the night, something was outside and I was convinced it was a bear. And I was like, this is it. I'm going to die on the eve of my 40th birthday being eaten by a bear. But you're still here to tell the tale of not being eaten by a bear. So maybe it wasn't a bear. Maybe it was a squirrel. No. Maybe.

Now, what did you get for your birthday, Paul? What did I get for my birthday? I got a bag. Colin did very well, bless him. We were sort of, it was a bit of a strange day, actually, because we're in Monterey, which everyone said to go to, but I must admit it was a bit of a tourist trap. It wasn't my favourite place. And we ended up not even going out for dinner because it was all a bit, it was just really depressing.

It was so touristy that it just had no soul left. It was just tourists and everything was for the tourists. and I was just a bit like, so we actually ended up just getting an Uber Eats in bed. Did you? Oh, well, I mean, there's definitely worse nights to be had. With a glass of wine? Yeah, well, of course.

Come on, I'm not an animal. But it wasn't the most sort of glamorous of 40th evenings. But then we went to Napa and it was incredible. We drank so much wine and I learnt loads. And my God, it's the most expensive place I've ever been in my life. Okay, so tell me, what did you learn about drinking wine what was your biggest takeaway about learning about wine in the Napa Valley

I learned that American wine is exorbitantly expensive it's a hundred quid hundred dollars for a bottle of wine why but it's made there from the vineyard from the vineyard you can buy wine for like six quid in France that's like the best wine you've ever drunk yeah so I was the I think the tech boom has done something to I mean, there were very lovely wines, but I do not appreciate wine enough for that price.

That's madness. No, I wouldn't have thought that either. It's a bit like if you go driving around France or Italy, you can literally, in Italy, pick up a bottle of delicious primitivo in the supermarket for about four euros. Yeah. But bearing in mind chicken wine is, you know, chicken wine, veil fern. That's my favourite wine of all time of the rosés. You know, it's wasted on me the good stuff. so but I'm sure they were delighted when I turned up

but it was it was magical we learnt lots about salinity of pinot noirs and all sorts of things which I'm sure I could go into huge amounts of detail on and bore you all to sobs but it was magical and we came home and the chickens are all laying that's my big news oh so they finally started cracking out some bloody eggs yeah boy about time girls

okay I know have you tasted one have you scrambled one Have you fried tiny? The eggs are smaller than a golf ball. I say we're talking more like quail's eggs, are they? They are the size of a quail's egg. Get some cucumber salt then. No, celery salt. Maybe boil it.

Yeah. I have some celery salt in it. Delicious. Well, actually, one of our lovely any slash outies and in-between he said they make very good scotch eggs. Because obviously they're small. Now, that's a skill. How the hell can you make some? something that's cooked like meat on the outside with a soft egg in the middle.

No idea. That's fucking wizardcraft wizardry. That's what that is. Well, we'll find out because Colin has just bought, this is, check out for Healthy September, a deep fat fryer. Oh, God. Really? Can't you do it in the old air fryer? Is it that that doesn't work?

I bet you could do a scotch egg and an air fryer. We'll look that out. I'll Google that one afterwards, shall we lads? Yeah. Well, we're going to try it this weekend. So I will share that on, on Insta Stories, if it's a success. or indeed if it's not. Okay, what else has been going on, pal?

What else have you been up to? Oh my God, well, obviously, I'm afraid I'm unavailable for the next two years because Taylor Swift is getting married and I'm waiting for my invite. Okay, right, good. Have you bought your hat yet? No. Right, well, first you need to tell me how much you are indifferent to Taylor Swift. I have to say, as much as we all care and don't care about Taylor Swift and her wedding.

I do actually very much appreciate the amount. that Taylor does for various charities and things. So, well done, Taylor. She just seems like a very nice. She seems like a nice person. Right on. I have to, I have to be brutally honest. I didn't know she'd got married.

She's not got married, mate. She's engaged. Is she, I didn't know she was, so she hasn't had the wedding yet? No, mate. No. Is it an engagement? Did she get engaged? She just got engaged and she announced it with this, like, amazing few,

photos of her with like in their garden with loads of flowers which obviously is right up my street and i'm going to look at it now clearly you live under a rock because it's literally been everywhere so even if you're not a t s fan how has this one passed you by god i don't know i'm just hoping that's not i'm not the only one come on guys my innies oh wow look at the flower situation yeah that's impressive that's extravagant it's extravagant it's extravagant I've been taken to the Vogue website. That's how, oh, and he's proposed. So he's proposed in the gardens,

and they're surrounded by all these flowers, and obviously they did it just for themselves and the privacy of just them. They didn't do it for the cameras or for anyone else. Oh, wait, they did. Anyway. All right, well, on that sass. Sorry, I'm such a buzzkill, aren't I?

You are a buzzkill. I'm definitely not talking to you about the summer I turned pretty now. Should we answer some questions? I actually did watch the first season of that one, and have you know. I know, that is quite fun. The season I turned pretty is, I have to say, that's quite addictive watching. I was watching it feeling a bit like a sort of odd, old voyeur woman.

Like, I was sort of watching, I was like, am I feeling a bit, it's a bit pedophily? Like, I'm literally a 43-year-old woman, and I'm watching these young teen, like very tweenie people fall in love. And I was like, should I be watching this? Is this not like something my daughter is going to die? I should be watching. Anyway. Yeah, cute. Very cute. Nice to switch off to you. Good. Okay, well, it's my obsession. But obviously, when this goes out, it will have, we will have had the finale. But obviously, what the people not, what is so interesting about this show is number one, it's got Taylor Swift through it. Every single episode has a song in it because she wrote a lot of it was sort of with Taylor Swift as an influence. But also, interestingly, the author is around our age, pal. So, like, whilst it might be designed to appeal to a younger generation. Well, the author's not going to be 16, are they? No, but what's really interesting is I've had loads of messages from inies and outies that are watching it that are just like, is it a bit sad that I'm like a 45, 50 year old woman watching this?

And I was like, no, because it's written by someone of our age and it's obviously written as a kind of piece of nostalgia, I think. I think it's fantastic. And also I did Google the age of the boys. They're 25 and I was like, that's fine. I could definitely date a 25 year old. And then I remembered I was 40 and could be their mother and I felt a bit sad. I actually, quick digress. When I became newly single when I was split up from my ex and I would have been

34 years old, I had, I'd been in a relationship for so long that I didn't, it was almost like I threw back to the time I was when I was last single, which was basically when I was like, oh yeah, I got the, well, I didn't know how, I literally was attracted to suddenly like guys in their early 20. And I was like, yeah. And I went to Australia and I just basically had an absolutely riot. What was the youngest we went? Can I?

23. And you were how old? 34. Yes, Jojo. That's perfectly legal. I think I taught him a few things. I bet you do. That's all I'm going to say.

I'm going to leave it there. I bet you showed him the way around. Let me tell you, sex gets better as you get older until you go off it, until you just live without it. that's 23 well there you go you could have gone with jeremiah or conrad there then yeah well now i know how they really are then i can obviously now so now now i've gone past that now now i'm in my i can't crush on 20 year old boys no but does it make you it did make me think oh is this why older men go for younger women because in their head they're still 22 yeah 100 because i feel like i'm still 22 do you in your head in my head i do yes especially when the kids

aren't around. When the kids are suddenly around, I feel about 83. Yes. Yeah. They're all sort of like buzz. God, you've really just killed it for me. Yeah. Especially we go out. Oh, God, sorry, we could really go on that. That was good. That was quite fun. Okay. Okay. Well, I enjoyed that and I feel like I've learned something new about you. And bravo, my friend, flying that flag for us all. Why do I always feel like this is the place to sort of come out and announce my sort of dirty secrets and things, you know, it's either like, you know, a chin, a hair that's popped up on my nipple or telling you about my 23-year-old, you know, conquests. Why here? Why here now to all these ears? I'm so sorry, everyone. Anyway, I love you all. Um, right. Should we, should we, should we,

do a little, where are we? Gosh, we're September. Should we do some, should we do some questions and answers? Well, it's, well, what's our theme this week? Our theme is light. We're going to go like guys because it's after all it is september light is changing one of my i'm going to say we're coming into one of my favorite times of year would you say to when the summer's coming to an end pole do you suddenly feel like ready to sort of pull out the cashmirs and get into the autumn mood you know or do you quite do you love because you're you're for you your summer is where it's at in the garden isn't it i mean that's like your that is your time so do you miss it or do you no by the end of august i'm like i'm a bit sick of this type of gardening i'm ready for a change i'm ready for like the tidy the sewing of new things the dividing the planning no i think it's a bit of a relief actually because it can be a bit relentless and then you also do you feel like every summer you learn something new about your garden and obviously your garden's quite new isn't it's your first year in your garden but do you feel like you sort of think i've done that this year next year i'm going to do something different or next year

I'm going to plant something. Always. That's a lovely thing about gardens, isn't it? You can't do that really in the house. Well, you could obviously do a little spring clean and a bit of a josh, but you can't go changing your house every year, whereas your garden is just... No, that would be quite wasteful. Hmm. Yeah. No, the garden, I love it. And it's actually, you look at the border and you're like, yeah, that did not work. That experiment, because we always talk about gardens as experiments, don't we? Yeah. That experiment didn't work. Those plants didn't thrive. And I'm not obviously going to change them. Now I'm going to wait till autumn and then I'm going to change it. So Colin and I've

actually got some plans for one of the border, which is two. years old. I want to make it a bit bigger, obviously, more plants. So, and then you're like, yeah, next year, I'm going to grow these dahlias instead, because that one was a bit crap, but those were amazing. So it's, it's always constant experiment. Does this work? Does that work? And the courgettes I had this year was so atrocious. So that's back to the drawing board on that one. They were, I have to say, I tasted one. They were pretty gross. Yeah, I did just, those big balls, no, I'll never grow them again. They look cool, but they're not, they weren't. They'd be great. They were great for a photo shoot. Good for a photo

shoot um pole because this is going to be our subject for this episode guys we're going to talk light because we're in september and the light's always changing give us a little give us a little poly low down on the light at this time of year poll and just what goes on in the garden well the light's obviously that much lower which means that growth is slowing of everything but it's if i can beg you to do one thing don't do that big tidy up don't do the big cut down everything just leave alone that's number one that's your job for september but my fave thing to do it is at this time of year, so it's so good for this is all of your dividing. So all of that digging up, putting a spade through things, free plants. So I think, you know, plants are

expensive and it's an investment. And I'm always going on, you need five of this, nine of this, you know, repetition, repetition, repetition. But this is the time where you can essentially use your own garden as a shopping centre and you can dig up all your perennials and put a spade through them. You can either have, make them into two. You can even make them into four if they're big enough and then you can move them around the garden and then you've kind of got instant repetition so for me it's kind of a great time to up your stock without costing you any money which I love yeah I love that love that it's also I suppose you never know what's going to come back to you next year well I mean hopefully if it's perennials you hope they're all going to come back unless

we have some sort of hideous winter can you question can you plant an entire garden with perennials and never So if I was to plant my entire garden of perennials Yeah And just totally left it alone Yeah Would you think you'd need to bring in Other interest in the form of non-perennials

Or could you literally just have a garden of perennials It just comes about year on year And you don't need to worry about it You could do Asking for a friend Asking for a friend, hey I mean the one red flag here Is perennials don't give you winter structure

or structure sort of full stop so you could in so far as if you use loads of grasses you could have something which was like this amazing grass border and they think of places like the newt which have enormous swathes of grass borders and they look incredible but I would caution you do need a bit of evergreen structure

ideally otherwise there is going to be a time of year when there's not a lot going on so we would always try and put some form of shrub or topery or something in unless you're going down that really kind of grassy wild meadow vibe

Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make complete sense. I love to it. As long as you use grass, what would be really bad is if you just did perennials and no grasses in there and then it was just, in winter

you'd just be looking at bare earth. I know you don't like balls but the sort of... I love balls. Like a eudome. Eudone. Is Eudome that? That's a, I suppose that's different.

That's not a perennial as such, is it? That's not a perennial at all, my darling. What's that called? Well, that's a tapirized, that's a shrub. It's a tropeorized form, yep. But a shrub and shrubs can act like your form, can they. Your shrub. Yes, pal, yes.

So that's it. So you would do, if you think of it like a menu, okay. Think of me as totally stupid. I know we've been doing this a while, but you have to treat me like I'm stupid. I am. Okay. So it's the sort of base layers. So you've got.

We always start with our trees. If you think of it like a forest canopy, you start with the tallest things and you work down. So you start with your trees, which is your tallest thing. And then your shrubs, which is your sort of mid layer. And that could be things like hydrangees or doitias or philadelphus or taxis or hedging. You know, all of that. That's your sort of shrub layer. Then your perennials and your grasses, which are the things which die back in winter come back in spring.

Perennial, that's herbaceous perennial means they die back, but they come back. and then your bulbs and your ground covers and then your annuals which are the things which you plant one year and they die and they do not come back but they might self-seed and new plant grows so those are your layers but we would very rarely ever do a garden of just one of those things

like just shrubs yeah I've never heard it described like that where you go from tall tree to down down thank you that's really you're welcome but let's go on inside and I've got a couple of light theme questions for you We're going to start with one about stairway lighting. Okay.

So the question is, what do I do? I don't want to look up at a light bulb in the stairway. Well, it's a funny one, staircases, because I think a lot of people assume that you need, okay, obviously the staircase isn't attached to a landing or a hallway and therefore it gets no light. You are going to have to put a light of some sort in the stairwell, otherwise it's going to be in the dark. But if you are, say, coming into a hallway and there's a staircase going up the left-hand side and then you come out onto a first floor landing, the lights that you have on the ground floor and the first floor will be enough to light that staircase. You don't need to give a staircase its own independent light, which I think a lot of people will think you do. And one of my absolute bugbears is actually a stair lighting when people actually add little stair lights onto the treads of stairs, which is just...

Oh, you don't like that. No, I just don't understand why you feel the need to light steps up. But then I'm not, as you know, I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to lighting. So I think as long as you have your feature lights, to say, again, your hallway coming on the ground floor, you've got a light in the ceiling, front door porch light or something. As long as there's enough bulbs, you've got to think how many bulbs there are in that light to light up that space. So you might want one of it's a very small hallway, go two of it's something, you know, that's getting bigger.

And then upstairs on the landing, if you've got a bit of a draw, between the stair down the stairwell, then you can get away with something with a bit more of a pendant that's got, say, three, five lights on it. If she is talking about, I think she's saying she doesn't want to look up at a bulb. And the only way to get away from that

is by going with a light that we probably have a opaque, sort of frosted glass. I think, judging from this question, my friend, she's talking about a pendant light like a dangler. Oh, okay. So what should she put on that?

So on a stairwell, again, something else to consider. is if you do have a dangly pendant, say a lantern, usually in glass, it's usually just a bulb in a piece of glass. That can feel quite cold and yes, you will be staring at a glass bulb. The other thing is about that is that if you are going to have a glass pendant of sorts hanging in a stairwell, you're going to be able to have to access it to clean it. It's why I don't tend to put these things up unless I know that somebody's going to have access to be able to get to it to clean it because cleaning glass pendant lights will become the bane

of your life. Another reason you shouldn't put them over an island where you have a cooker because they will just get sticky cooking steam smells, you know, stuff all over them. They do get all gooey, don't they? They get gooey and sticky. Any light over on an island is going to get gooey and sticky, just no head off. So same on a stairwell, a lot of dust is going to settle on that light regularly. So either get yourself a good dust cleaner, dust air. But when you actually need to get to it to clean it, you're going to have to be able to get a big ladder or something to be able to access it. But, and this is why I always tend to actually prefer to go with a pendant that has linen shades on. So something with multiple arms, but with little linen shades

on. So you're not staring at a bulb. And I also just think it's so much softer. I feel like it's like me a bit. So when you're just staring at a bulb up on a ceiling, I will try and avoid that at all costs. So it always just something with a shade around it to not be looking up at a light bulb. Nice. Should we share a couple of examples on our stories? Yeah, and also, depending on ceiling height, you can do also do a sort of semi-drop, semi-flush mounts with a sort of frosted shade or something on it. I enjoy a flush mount. I love a flush mount, semi-flush, flush. Yeah, we put a few of those in your house, didn't we? Some flush-mounds. Yes, you did. Right, my love. This one is for you. Will I regret buying a house with a north-west facing garden?

I love the sun and I want to grow vegetables, etc. Such a good question. I love this question, but I don't understand where this has come from. Because as far as I'm concerned, a northwest facing garden means that you're going to have a sunny spot at the end of your garden. Particularly if you want to be growing vegetables, it's rare that you'd want your veg patch to be right by the house, which in this case, northwest facing is going to be the bit by your house through your back door is going to be shady for most of the day, although you're going to get some nice evening sun there if it's northwest, aren't you? You're going to get the last of the sun down there, which is actually really nice,

because then you can sit by your house as the sun goes down, which is really lovely. But then the most of your sun is going to be at the end, wherever that may be. And that's where exactly I would want something like your vegetable patch or cut flowers to be. But it also means when you're in the house, you're looking at lovely, vibrant, sunny flowers. So you've got the shade bits by the house, which I just don't think is a bad thing at all. and it means you've got the sun as your view and your destination. It's really nice because it also means

you can put some seating down the end. So I hard disagree with that. And Joachia, we're forever talking about the dilemmas of having a south-facing garden and a house and it being bleaching your carpets and your kitchen's too hot because, you know, it's that whole thing.

You can't win really. So actually, no, I don't think you will regret it. That said, this is the caveat. Please look at the trees around your garden. So many people buy a house and then don't realize that the trees around it have TPO's or they're the neighbours and they're never going to cut them down. So you are going to be shaded by your neighbour's trees.

We love a tree, nothing wrong with a tree. But for goodness sake, make sure that you get enough sun where you want sun in your garden because it's amazing how many gardens we go to and we're like, this is very shady because they bought it in winter and didn't realize that these trees were, which they have no control over and literally casting shade over the whole thing. So I think, if I can actually even chip in there, Paul, and say, my house, I have a north-east-facing garden. Okay.

And we even get that sort of evening sun coming over the top of the house that we're looking at, which means that when you're in the house, you're looking. Even now, now it's 4.30 in the evening afternoon. And I can see sunlight in front of me. And it does mean that the house is lovely and cool all year round, even in the summer. I do have to say, I do miss having a bit of a sun trap. But I think she's really lucky. She's got the west aspect, which means that she gets the evening.

sun, nothing lovelier than evening sun. But to turn that on its head, Jojo, actually, because she's asking, not just for the garden, really, for the, for the house, what are the implications of that? Because I guess it means you're going to have quite a shady, a dark, whatever room adjoining your garden is. It's when, in the winter months, sometimes you're just like, oh, God, I just wish I could get a bit of some, you know, like warmth in this house. I do feel like that.

I have to tell you in a north-east facing house. but obviously the back of the house gets you know gets a bit of sunlight coming through but but I think for the fact that in the sun in the summer months the house is so lovely and cool it is that for that I love it I have to say so it's just about making sure it works for you and the right rooms are in the right place and so no I don't think it is a deal breaker by any means I think it's an outdated concept in my thing thanks Paul so back inside and sticking with that aspect theme I've got a question from Amy. She says, I have an east facing lounge. What color walls would be best, light or moody? Oh, such a good question. So east facing means that you've got no,

you haven't got any natural light coming from outside. So you haven't got any warmth from the sun at all. So west facing. Do you not get your morning sun from there? Not like a little bit. But that's, so think about that as bright light. Whereas your evening sun is that warm. It's got that sort of orange tone in it. I follow. So therefore it's going to be a cool light. The morning light is the cool, the sort of tends to be the cool light. Although it can be beautiful, obviously, because it's the morning. But as soon as that's kind of come around the house, it's gone. And then you've got a dark, it's dark cool room. Stere away from grays and blues, like literally just run away. Don't, you don't want those in your house. You want things that have cold, cold.

We want to keep, we want to warm up. So think about colors like sort of anything with a yellow undertone or or even a bit of pink or orange, those kind of colours are going to really help warm. It depends on the feel that you want to go for. Because it's east facing, it's going to feel cool in the day because there's no natural light in there. And therefore, I would say you can lean into the moodiness. If you like a moody looking out in a room and it is your living room, but it will feel darker. So if you're going to go with moody colours, it's going to feel colder and darker. So I would then strongly suggest you go with warm up the furniture that you're going to put in there.

So say if you want the colours on the walls to be like a lovely warm green, something with sort of a bit of depth, but something with warmth in the tone, like a yellow undertone in that green would be lovely. But then bring in colour in the furniture. So bring in sort of lovely terracottas and warm neutrals to help warm the room up. I think that's going to be the way forward. Or, you know, like we did in yours polls, which way is your living room?

You're in a, you sort of. Snuck? Well, it's sort of, it's got a north-facing window. and a south-facing door. Yeah, so yours gets a bit more warmth to it. Polys was pink. We went pink in yours and that's lovely because it's warm and it's a bit of fun.

And then you can go the opposite way and sort of bring in the moodiness in furniture. So you can sort of go lovely brown velvets and things in the furniture, but then you could maybe go with sort of lovely pinks on the walls. So it depends what you're after. But I do think if you're going to go neutrals and you are going to keep it light in here,

then make sure that those light neutrals are really lovely and warm, warm neutrals. Okay, let's stick with the aspect of these questions, which is plants on a northeast facing Victorian house to soften red brick. Wisteria is out. Yeah, Wisteria is out because that is too shady. Wisteria will not be happy.

It needs sun. So, okay, let's see if I can give you some new ones as well as some old. So there is chocolate vine, which I love. That's Akibia Kinata. That's semi evergreen, but it's got really lovely flowers that they are sort of a purply brown. That's hence chocolate vine. So that's really lovely, but obviously not evergreen, but very, very pretty come spring.

You've got obviously the climbing hydrangeas, which I talk about a lot. You've got hydrangea peti alaris, but also Simaniye. Both of them are really lovely, but Simanii is an evergreen version. So that's a lovely, if you wanted that, but it is rampant. But I like it because it clings on its own. to train it loads and tie everything in. So that's a beaut. Climbing roses as well if you wanted a rose. There are roses that are good with sort of, well, that's sort of shade to part shade. If it's north-east facing, as you say, it's getting that morning sun. So you could go with

something like New Dawn or Madame Alfred Carrier. Those are both stonkingly lovely roses. Or finally, you could go with a honeysuckle. The native honeysuckle would be lovely as well and obviously scented. So, oh, I love honeysuckle. I didn't know. suckles grow up north-east facing oh yeah well there's i mean some prefer more sun but some of them are actually really quite tough so you could look at that too so there's a few options for you and i i have a north-east-facing house as you know and i have a big old climbing hydrangea up the side of it and it loves it and it looks really beautiful the color of it is gorgeous so um i would highly recommend i think it's stunning it's it's really softens as well it really softens i think even the

deciduous ones, even the kind of framework behind the leaves, I think, is stunning in the winter. That's why I'm such a big fan. I've just put two on the front of my house, which is north-west facing. And they look lovely even in the winter as well. They look really nice in the winter, actually. Dreaming. All right, my love. Oh, that was such a good little catch-up that was. Good little catch-up. Wasn't that joy. That does leave us with one question of what is in and what is out this week. Well, we know what's in. I'm glad you asked. What's in?

I've got so many things that you're in. The kids are back in school. Yes, yes, but that's boring. Let me give you a fun one because I've got a question. I want you to tell me if this is in or out. I've seen it everywhere. I've been squirreling it away for this episode. Patterned sofas.

Yeah, I've seen this. Yes. Yeah, you're going to ask for like them. Are they in or out? Yeah. In my humble opinion. In? In.

I think pattern. I honestly think pattern is in. I think pattern is definitely making a major comeback in all sorts of, but in like almost like a dipsy form, like small form. For Laura Ashley vibes. It doesn't have to be Laura Ashley, but there's loads of great, you know, fabric houses out there doing really, really beautiful small prints. But, you know, and I'm all for it and I love it on sofas. I think it's amazing. It's a yes from me. It's an end from Jojo. Okay. My inn is pressed flowers.

I love them. I've been... Oh my God, it's so weird you say that. Look. What? I've got my little pocket floor press here. Yes, look. Can I tell you very quickly a funny story about... I've somewhere in this enormous shelf of books I've got here, there is a four-leave clover that my mum gave me that's pressed in a book and I have no idea which book it's in. And there was, I don't know how the, one day, in years to come, someone will open one of my books in a charity shop and a little four-leaf clove will fall out in a look. But yeah. So, yes, I'm all for press flowers. Sorry, Pam. Press flowers. Yes. I've been, I mean, this is the first year where I've been quite disciplined with it. And I've taken, I've sort of cut flowers each month and put them in. Some of them are absolutely awful. I'm not very good at it. I could do with doing a workshop. Because they all come out a bit sort of either gooey or brown or just not very good. But I'm really enjoying.

it. So, yeah, fun thing to do. As long as you've got some blotting paper and some books, you can press a flower. Oh, well, if I can remind you to go back to, if you do love dried flowers, go back to Anna Potter's Flower Philosophy book and also Bex Partridge, who does amazing dried flowers. So go and check them. Very nice. Very well. All right, my darling. Well, on that note, I'm going to be... Oh, just not like that. Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. I've got over-excited, Ben. You've covered you're in, but you have not covered. You're out. Oh, okay. Do you know what? I have a question for you. Yeah.

It's, it's, it's, I'm coming, I'm bringing it right back to trousers. Okay. Good. Do you think that cropped trousers are in or out? So do you think, Polly, a little fashionista? So, so glad you asked this question because I am, the, the, the angst I am in right now, cropped and also barrel, both of which I adore. Yeah. But how the hell do you integrate them into an autumn and winter wardrobe when you're not wearing sandals?

Not transitional. They are not a transitional trouser. Because you put them with socks and then you're like, God, that looks wildly shit. Yes. You can't put, no, they're too short. The barrel, I just don't think they work. They look lovely with a ballet shoe. So they work well when you don't need to be wearing socks.

So I think autumn is fine. But as soon as it gets into cold toe weather, I just. don't know how they work. I think we go back to the mumgene, back to the woolly socks with the old blonde stone boots, the old boots. That's the look for me in autumn. But I do love, barrel in particular I adore. So I'm going to keep it going with loafers.

Maybe loafers, although I'm worried that might look weird. Oh, no, I think it could look weird. I just don't know. I think we need to explore this further. I need to go jean shopping. I feel like we spoke about this time exactly last year. It's clearly like a repeating anxiety for us. body, the body sort of, I don't know what's happening where I'm feeling like I don't really

know my body shape anymore where I feel like what looks good on me or not. I, I look at pictures myself back in the day when he used to wear skinny jeans, high waist of skinny jeans. I was like, God, I love those. I put them on now and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Put those back in the back of the cupboard. We should go gene shopping. I don't know what we're just somewhere in the most miserable form of shopping though. We all agree, right? It's just hideous. Yeah. And also quite sweaty. It is sweaty. It's a work. It's a workout. But then that's fine because we'll just make sure we have wine somewhere nearby afterwards. We'll make it.

All right. Let's do what. Let's genuinely go jeans shopping together. It could be quite the fun. Okay. What is that out for you? Well, let's say the same thing. My ankles at the moment is I don't know what to do with them.

Do I sock them? Do I loaf of them? Do I jean them? Yeah. I don't know, pal. It's a funny old, it's the season. Answers on a postcard. Cashmere is now out, isn't it?

We're getting the old cashmere out of hiding. Yes. Yeah. It's knitwear season. Sweeter season. Okay. All right, that's quite enough of this. I just shook my boobbies there. Okay, on that note, we love you all so much.

Welcome back. It's good to be back. We're back, baby. Back, baby. All right, bye-bye. Bye-bye.