The Ins & Outs - Renovating On A Budget

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

This week Jojo and Polly do a deep dive on how to approach a home renovation on a budget.Polly dashes Jojo's vegetable garden dreams, but is there a chance it could still happen?!Plus, we look ahead to Easter and all the chocolatey goodness that comes with it.This week's episode is brought to you by Best Heating! Whether you're planning a renovation or searching for your perfect piece, Best Heating have got you covered. Make sure you check them out at https://www.bestheating.com/ BestHeating, have curated an elegant collection of radiator valves and pretty little extras like pipes and wall stays to help you achieve the perfect look. From traditional to contemporary, you'll find the ideal pieces to complement your radiator and elevate your entire room.’ OFFER: 1 free wall stay when you spend £500 or more.T&Cs subject to availability. Wall stay is only suitable for Windsor and Cast Iron radiators. Valid 1st April - 31st May.Code: INSWALLSTAYInstagramPodcast - @the_insandouts_Jojo - @houseninedesignPolly - @pollyanna_wilkinsonProducer Andy - @andy_rowe_WebsitesJojo - https://www.housenine.co.uk/Polly - https://www.pollyannawilkinson.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Green, the colour of true elation Pond on a summer's day, see I've been waiting for you Waiting for you Hello Innes and Alties and welcome to this week's episode of The In-N-Out with myself, Jojo Barr and the ever so lovely Polly Anna Wilkinson. On this week's episode, Polly fills us in on her recent trip to the pig. I give you my roof cleaning quotes. We deep dive into how best to approach a renovation on a budget.

Polly dashes my vegetable patch dreams. We talk chocolate eggs and our diminishing sweet teeth. This week's episode is sponsored by our lovely friends again at Best Heating. Whether you're planning a renovation or searching for your perfect piece, Best Heating have got you covered. Now we know that the smallest details can make the biggest difference of course, so that's why we wanted to draw your attention to the often overlooked and yet utterly essential element of radiator design. Not just the radiator themselves but the accessories. Best Heating have curated an elegant collection of radiator valves. Let me tell you, these things are sexy.

Pretty little extra pipes and wall stays that will help you achieve the perfect look for your radiator. From traditional to contemporary, you'll find the ideal pieces to complement your radiator and elevate your entire room. And they're very kindly giving you a free wall stay when you spend 500 pounds or more. So head to the show notes for all the details. And of course, head to www.bestheating.com.

["Woo-hoo"] Hello, my love. Hello, my love. How you doing? Checking in on the Easter holiday sanity, scale of one to 10, how you feeling? Scale of one to 10, Rocky's on the sofa unwell. She's supposed to be at camp today.

I mean. I feel like it's sort of deja vu. Is this deja vu? We've been here before. Oh yes, many times. Yeah, she's unwell again. So 10 is winning at life, best day ever, and one is a pile of turd, where are you today?

I'm gonna go quite close to pile of turd actually. I'm sort of sniffing on the pile of turd. Just wait, I can smell it through the door. I'm definitely not in, I'm just as, I feel, yeah, I'm not able to get, I mean, anyone will know if you're trying to work and you're trying to run a business or achieve anything when you've got sick kids around it is virtually near on impossible and that's me today and actually this week instead of going to the studio I thought I'm gonna have a really good working from home week where I can just achieve so much because I'm not sitting in the car for three

hours and not being distracted by God knows everything else that's going on and so I thought I'm just going to have a really good few days at work at home. And of course, scuppered, scuppered. She was like, I spot an opportunity here. Yeah, but they're so cute as well, but I keep getting, mommy, can I have a cuddle? Mommy, can I have some food?

You know, it's that sort of thing. So it's very sweet on the one hand hand and I would love to just go along the Sofa with her and watch Shrek, but I have actually got work to do and Podding with you my friend. Hold on one set the bloody washing machines beeping. Hold on It's not the cat The joys. Oh, the joys. I've got to get that sorted.

I know we've spoken about the functions on these machines, but it doesn't need to beep at you every 10 seconds to tell you it's finished. Maybe just three times just to alert you and then that's it. It can stop, but I think there's a need to... But is it... I would quite appreciate that, because sometimes I think, oh, look at me, domestic goddess of plants and washing, and then I forget it for two days and then it smells and you have to wash it again. You get moldy washing. Yeah. I did get myself... I bought myself a new Melee washing machine

and it's amazing. I didn't realize how shit my previous washing machine was until I got a new washing machine. Although the range of washing machines is quite extraordinary when you're online and you're looking for a washing machine. There isn't just it's not like you buy this one, basic one, medium one, really top of the top of the shop one. It's like there's hundreds of different features, different things. I mean, I just I almost just like stuck my finger in there and was like, you know, that one, Eenie Meenie Minie Moe, that one, around about the right price. I just want the quiet one with a quick setting.

I think you can turn the beeping off. I think it's just one of those things that you know. If I just went on Google, looked up how to turn it off, my problems would be over in about three seconds. But you know, we just like a moan, don't we? We just like a moan. We do. We just just like a moan. We do. Anything else to whinge about this week? I do I do love the Jojo's whinge of the week. Whinge of the week is how much it's gonna cost to have our roof tiles cleaned on our house. Oh my god I found this out last month too. Well we've had two quotes, so garage and house and our neighbour behind us was like, because I've been talking about it to Brad for a while that we need to get

it done because it's got moss and everything over it and I think I did speak about the fact that some people say leave the moss on it's good for the roof, it's insulation and other people say get it off. Our roof is dirty looking, I'm going to say it's dirty and I think the tiles, they're actually handmade clay tiles. So they're actually really nice tiles, we're lucky, but it is filthy and it needs a clean and it was only when the neighbour came round the other day and they were like, you know, you've got a couple of loose roof tiles and it really needs a clean. They obviously look at the back of our house, so they're like, can you please clean your roof? So we got two quotes. First quote came in. Presumably from like reputable ones, right? Because I, there are roof cleaners and there are roof cleaners.

There are gentlemen that will come onto your roof with a jet washer and absolutely destroy your roof. Well, that's right. Yeah. That's what I'm a bit worried about. And then you've got the actual ones that come out with a cherry picker or scaffold and do it lovingly. He said we need to come, to be fair. So the first quote came in at five and a half grand. Yeah. Oh, that's punchy.

Punchy. Second guy came in a white van with a puppy Rottweiler on the front seat. And he was like- A jet washer in the back. And he was like- Pop up there, lover. You've got clay tiles, I'm going to need to get a cherry picker up there. And I was like, well, that's promising that you're going to do that.

And he said, you know, they've got to be a bit more careful. And he seemed really nice. He was like, can I promising that you're gonna do that and he said you know they've got a bit more careful he seemed really nice he's like can I let my rock viola out on your lawn I was like well yes I have got cats and he's all that's all right she likes cats anyway he seemed really nice his quote came back at two and a half did he say how he was gonna do it though because I've I literally have watched people have their roof destroyed by standing on on the top you know just like neighbors that you see some dude there just... Yeah, he did say cherry picker. No, cherry picker. That's fine. That gets him up there.

But is he then just going to get the jet washer out and blast those lovely Sam? Well, I've seen they do it with these like this big round cleaning thing, don't they? But I don't think they can do that. I do know what I don't know. And I've got to do some research. I have no idea. I am one of those things It's so easy to fall for a cowboy on that one though, isn't it? That's makes me nervous 100% yeah, and also cuz they are nice handmaid. Did you have yours done? No, because I can't afford it

I thought of all the things of all the things you want to spend money on You know like all the things to save money on I'm like I'll wait on the on the roof cleaning I need to I really need a stair runner. That's the one that's really slowing me down. I need a stair runner and I'll get to it. But like, I need to pick the fabric and then I need to find the fitter. There's a whole thing.

And I need to paint the whole house. That's not cheap either. What you don't realize, one thing I just didn't contemplate, considering I do this for a living, I manage everyone else's budgets for a living. When we moved from London to the country, and if you buy somewhere with land or outhouses,

you basically buy a money pit and all the money that you want to be spending on the house ends up going into like fencing or land or you know things roof like cleaning all this stuff that I just wasn't yeah it's a lot but we're putting money aside and getting it done because I think it's really important it's like the upkeep of a house is so important because if I don't look after it it will fall apart and then we'll actually end up having to get a completely new roof which we just don't want. What you've said has piqued something in me I want to ask. So there are certain gardens we'll go to and I'll

walk in and go this is a money pit, this garden is going to cost a fortune, doesn't matter what the brief is and it's usually ones on a really big slope. It's just like this is, there is no way of doing this cheaply to make it usable. So we know there are certain gardens we'll turn up to and be like, logistically, either because everything has to be craned over or because it all needs terracing or smashes and it needs a huge amount of maintenance.

Slopes and levels. Slopes and levels instantly add so much to the cost of a garden. And I'll watch that going, I wonder if you knew that having a garden on a slope like this or with really difficult access or whatever was going to Cost you a premium Anything in the house that you think the same I was just about I honestly thought Paul you're about to go and you've bought one of those

You Jojo are fucked. Your garden. You've got flat. Yours is sort of flat. A few levels. A few levels. No I'm talking like proper slopes you know. I would say. Do you have a, is there an equivalent for the house? I mean levels is really tricky. Funnily enough I think if it's, you get really well proportioned houses and then you get really long thin houses and they might be big and I actually had an expert yesterday where the client's house was a bit like mine was thin and long and therefore when you're trying to put plumbing into these areas it's not as easy as just like oh popping an en suite on the side of that bedroom because it's either one side of the house or the other and you've got to have a corridor to get between them.

So that's, that's, that's really tricky when people suddenly want to add, you know, things like bathrooms because of obviously the plumbing and the pipe work. And, but I would also say another thing as a big consideration is if you're buying a house that's got chimneys or mantel pieces and so many people are like, Oh, we'll just move that or I'll just get, you know, right. And if you have a sodding great chimney breast in the middle of the house that runs down the middle of the house You can't well you can't move it, but you are going to have to spend Thousands on supporting the house if you're to take out any mantles

Because you have to put lentils in between floors and support the house and it can end up costing thousands in between floors and support the house and it can end up costing thousands. And what about surely if you walk in and all the windows are single glazed as well you must be like this one's gonna add up quick? Insulation is a huge thing that people don't think about so even down to the floor if you haven't got insulation in your floor if it's a you know single brick house older houses obviously don't tend to have double insulation layers. You can now fill them with foam and beads and all sorts of clever things. But windows, definitely windows is obviously a huge, huge part of the budget

that people don't think about how much windows cost. And also just because of the hoik on timber, the cost of timber and materials now is so much, even just getting into the UK, because it all usually comes from places like Poland and Bulgaria. And therefore the cost of timber now has sort of gone up, you know, doubled. So that's a huge consideration. If you do need to have your windows replaced when you're buying a new house, that's going to eat a massive part into your budget. And then, yeah, do think about insulation.

And also, I tell you what, heating as well well because if you're buying a decent-sized house You're gonna need a decent-sized boiler and if you are moving from I don't know radiators to underfloor heating That's a that's a consideration because sometimes boilers struggle with getting heat output into both of those things One is a slow release one's a fast release And sometimes it just doesn't work in half the house and you might need to get a secondary boiler like that. There's a lot to consider on this sort of the M&E side of things before you get even to the fun stuff. M&E? Mechanical electrical. Oh hello, thank

you. Yes. Right, well okay, well you've caught me up on your roof cleaning. Anything else? Uh, other stuff, which you, you, I feel like I might've got a bit of a wrap on the wrist actually from Paul yesterday. Let's talk about this. You got a minor one. I got a semi wrap. Okay. Because I am talking about, which you all have all seen. If you follow me in my innings, um, I'm talking about doing a paddock in a raised vegetable beds in the paddock.

Um, and we are looking into these galvanized ones actually because someone gave me some very good advice that the timber ones as lovely as they are they will obviously rot these sleepers and then you're sort of home to replace them so galvanized is a good option. The positioning of mine I'm going to say they're going to be they are I could I would be able to just about see them from where I'm sitting at my window now No, and it would be a 30 second walk to get to them there is irrigation that runs directly to that area and

They get sunlight. It will get sunlight all morning until about two o'clock I'm curious to know why you're thinking it's not a good idea. It's not that it's not a good idea. It's a bit like me saying, Jojo, I'm going to decorate my son's room before I start a renovation on my house. I think that's just, it's probably not the thing I would prioritize.

I think number one, building a veg bed in your paddock, lovely idea. I'm sure all of the wildlife will love that too. So it will need... Proper covers, we've thought about that. It's not really even covers, it's probably a cage to stop everything eating what you grow. Because what you grow will be like ambrosia to the deer and the muntjac and the rabbits and all the lovely woodland creatures that you have in your field and obviously you want that menagerie of the goat and the llama and the pig. So number one it needs an enclosure and you sort of

need you'll need sort of something around it in terms of it I don't think you want it to just be sat on lawn so you want it to be sat on gravel or bark or something it's just it could it could add up quite quickly cost-wise and I'm conscious there are other areas of your garden you want to invest in I'm also a little bit nervous about where you're positioning it because you are time poor and one thing we do a lot when we're doing garden designing is think about the psychology of things and the further away something is even if it's just a few steps the less likely you are to look after it so it's I mean you've got this beautiful paddock it totally makes sense that eventually you'd

have some sort of dreamy Nancy Meyers fruit cage style heaven but I think it will come at a higher cost than you think I think also, I do think at this stage in your life and the business that you are, it does run the risk of becoming some nice weed beds. But if you are committed to it, then I fully support it. It's lovely. There's nothing more joyful than growing your own cut flowers and vegetables.

And yeah, the position is lovely in terms of sun, all good stuff and irrigation. That's the main thing is putting veg beds somewhere far away and then not having irrigation You're just going to have dead plants. Yeah But it's a lovely mindful thing to do I think that's it honestly at the home The reason we're doing it is because we spend an awful lot of time at home We've got two little girls that love being outside. They love gardening. They love getting involved Because we can't do we have to do this house in sequence and the first sequence, everything has been put on

hold because of dad. Everything was meant to start this year with the renovation of the house and it's all been put on hold because of dad and I just simply don't have the time at the moment driving back and forth to see him and managing contractors on site and I don't want to over, because you will know Paul, when you're renovating over because you will know, Paul, when you're renovating a house, anyone will know. And even projects that we do, we have to be on site a lot to oversee all the questions that come to you every single day. What's this? What is that?

Don't understand this drawing. This isn't turned up. That isn't you're you're basically managing a project. And I just didn't have the headspace to be doing that with the business, with the kids, with everything else. So the garage, we're going to start in September. And we just, because the paddock is, we're getting it sorted out anyway, we've got loads of brambles, loads of weeds, loads of sorting out down there that we need to have done. It just felt like a really lovely opportunity to make use of that space this summer because we're not going to be going away.

Likely it is we might go away for a week or so in the summer but we can't spare the time because of dad and therefore we want to make... we're just all about home at the moment. Home is just where it's at. It's just yeah we need to be close to home and it just thought a really nice thing to get the kids involved with that we can all do as a family. That was our reasoning. Well then either you know see it as something temporary that you might change as your garden evolves or just make sure that you plan it so that you don't go oh should we put it over to the left or made them bigger or smaller or allowed for this so but I think you will need some animal

protection. We're definitely doing animal protection purely I mean at the moment we've even got deer droppings on our lawn at the moment they love it around here we've got so many deer and so deer and slugs and all that sort of stuff so we're probably gonna put fencing around the little enclosure against the back of the paddock so that is basically like two meters high yeah it's a lot so we've been doing that but also having the most mega mega clear I say this all the time how this time of year is just it's all about Spring cleaning it's just it feels don't you just feel like you just want to chuck everything out at this time of year So it's exactly what this is kind of the new year though, isn't it?

Do you remember back in January we're talking about this and actually the new year is actually now now at the start of the new Year, not January. So it is it's fresh and clean and get You get an itch don't you to just get rid of things to put clean things put things in bags take things to dry cleaners tuck things away you know I just bought all of these great big plastic containers that I can tuck everything away in and store stuff and I'm gonna have an almighty clear out of the garage as well because it's just full of crap but I'm getting on top of it it's very cathartic I think do you know I always think when

things are not going well in life or things out of your control cleaning or sorting is a really good way of getting it's almost like a form of meditation I can see why people cleansing cleansing and I think because it's something you can control so when other elements of your life are out of control you know you turn to cleaning your sense of order yeah totally it really does and actually it would be lovely growing some veg and things out in the garden would be good for you guys yeah I think it's a yeah speaking of which how's the no dig how's the no dig going no dig no dig it's. Colin's, we finished the first bed, we've built it, it's got all the soil in it, so now I'm just waiting

for it to warm up a little bit and I will start direct sowing some bits and transferring some plants out. We need to build another one. Chickens, I just need to order my chickens, which feels like a weird thing to say. Have you decided, are we deciding we are going with the chickens or we're not going with the chickens? We are fully committed to chicken parenting.

The chickens are in. And then in the house, oh my God, I'm having a nightmare. Tell me. I'm having a nightmare with my shower tray. This has nothing to do with house nine, they didn't touch this room, this is all me. It's what happens, you see, when you don't get the experts in.

I've got this really lovely shower tray, but it's quite flat, it doesn't have like a... A lip. A dip. A lip. It doesn't have a lip, it's just a lovely flat one that has a sort of contour that goes down and it's a weird little room, it's got a sort of slopey skilling ceiling so it's had a custom door glass door put in which I did not appreciate the cost of but Bathroom just keeps flooding doesn't hold the water in and I don't know what to do now. Oh

Can you replace the glass with? The glass screen with the glass screen with a shower door It is a glass screen with a shower door. The shower door is what is letting all the water out. Oh Right. It's good fun It's just because I think, sorry this is a super boring, all of the water you know it's instantly on the surface so it's going straight to the door straight away it's not like there's any vessel, nothing is being caught. Okay. It's not draining properly. And no one during the fitting said oh this this shower tray is really only for if you've got an upstand going around it or something like no one has said this is

Not an appropriate shower tray for this. I don't know where on the website where I bought it It was a really nice place I bought it from does it say this only works if you've got like a big tiled thing and you're sort of stepping into your Shower as opposed like up and over have you got room above like could you could you take the whole shower? Screen off and then build a step? Potentially, yeah that might be what I have to do but the builders are dealing with that. It's interesting isn't it when you've had a plumber, you've had a glass door fitter, all sorts of people have seen this and no one has gone, I don't think this will work. Maybe it's my fault for

choosing the wrong shower tray but hey it wouldn't be a renovation without a little hiccup. No, indeed. Obviously in the rooms that you had nothing to do with. But look, let me tell you about something actually fun and joyful. Tell me joyful stuff. I went to the pig at Coombe with Colin this weekend. Oh my God, you did.

Tell me everything. I've been so looking forward to a complete download of this trick. It was so, so good. I didn't, I hadn't a clue where Coombe was. It's in the Otter Valley, quite near Lime Regis. Yes. Dorset?

Do you know Lime Regis? Dorset. Dorset. Yes. And so stunning. So it was about three hours from home, which was absolutely fine. And we absolutely soared down. And then we got there and we were staying in a shepherd's hut, which was just, I mean, we saw them when we went to the South Stands, didn't we? But they're like a TARDIS. You go in, you look at the shepherd's hut

and you go, that's tiny. You go in and it's enormous. It's a bedroom, beautiful bathroom. And then we had an outdoor bath. So in like a little private garden, which was so nice. So I had a bath under the stars Go on evening how special which was amazing and they had live music Before dinner and the food is just so good. Isn't it? The food was

Banging it was so good and everything had there was loads of rhubarb on the menu because obviously forced rhubarb is in season now And so obviously I did a kitchen tour, please tell me that you had the rhubarb, the sort of eaten mess with rhubarb. Did they do that for you? Oh no, that wasn't on the menu. We had a, I had a blancmange. Oh, oh, talk for me. Which is basically like a panna cotta, isn't it?

Keep talking. That was amazing. Oh my gosh, the blancmange was amazing. What I had, I had the pea risotto, which was sensational. Colin had the venison. Oh my God, it was just absolutely fantastic. It was just as good as the last pig. Obviously the cheeses were different because of the different locale.

The fizz was different, different locale. But it was just sensational. Oh my God, I had the most amazing cocktail as well. What was it? It was a twist on a martini. Oh, it was rose infused vermouth. It's like walking into a gigantic sort of embrace, isn't it, when you go to the pig? And the people are so nice as well. I find they're just, it's like walking, it's like being home. And do you know what I love about it, one of my favorite things about the pigs is that they always have...

So some hotels you go to they set the living rooms up like it's actually a living room whereas the pig they do it's little corners, little places that two people can go and sit on their own, two little chairs on their own, lots of little private areas that even if the hotel was full you could always find somewhere to go and sit as a couple, which I think is really lovely. And just for you. And it's also, you see a lot of people down there with best mates or just their mum, which I think is really nice.

It's not just a couple's place. The only thing I noticed when I was there, and excuse my language, the clientele aren't wankers. Like at dinner, it wasn't everyone dressed to the nines in designer stuff, looking around them, looking over their shoulders to see who they could see and who could be seen. That was not the vibe at all.

I actually went for dinner in my jeans both nights because it felt relaxed. It didn't feel, you know, if I wanted to dress up, I'd packed stuff, but it just didn't feel, it felt way more chilled. And everyone just looked like they were there with family or friends or whatever. And no one cared about who else was there. It wasn't bougie and it wasn't sort of pretentious knobs. It just felt like nice people having a nice time that aren't

there to see and be seen. Yeah, I love that. Which I just, I find that extremely refreshing because there are other places you go where it feels like everyone's just sort of eyeing each other up. And I've got absolutely no time for it whatsoever. But it wasn't that, it was not the feel at all. It felt so relaxed and chill and lovely. And we went to Lyme Regis for the day because it was so nearby. And we went fossil hunting, which was so fun. So we were like scrabbling up the banks of Colin knew this particular area of the beach where there's always fossils and it's fascinating because it's this sort of rock but it's squishy

and peelable and you peel apart these bits of rock which is essentially just layers and layers of mud I guess over years and years and we found so many fossils so that was obviously a total joy that we geeked out on our fossils and then went home and ate loads of delicious food so it was the best break. I wasn't sure what to expect having been to the South Downs but Coombe I found incredibly magical. The setting just in that beautiful valley there were like pheasants literally outside. I just for me it was a very special stay and definitely somewhere I will return to so couldn't recommend it more. Okay I've got a question from you, from you, for you, from Juliet. Hi Juliet. I have to fix a

bathroom right now and I'm worried if I do Renault's room by room nothing will match later. Is it worth doing a full plan for the whole house Renault now even if I then build it in stages bit by bit as, as, and when I can afford it? This is such a great question, Juliet. And it's so such a great question. Um, and I love that you asked this one poll because I think you can also heavily relate to this. Um, you have to plan the whole house. This is my best bit of advice is that you plan and design the house exactly as you want it. The whole thing. Aspiration, aim high before you

then start even just on like a basic bathroom or bedroom refurbishment. Take it in little bite-sized pieces. Otherwise it can actually, it can make you feel quite anxious because what will happen is that you will do that bathroom in that one little thing But you won't have planned what's going to be going on outside that bedroom or perhaps, you know where? Even where doorways meet, you know different thresholds meet or you're gonna be having carpet meeting wood And what about the level changes and are you gonna be having under for heating? Is it gonna be? Plan the whole house and then bites, bite pieces off it.

And also in planning, you can start to get costs together, way in advance, create a spreadsheet, you know, look at like, you know, however long a period you want to do the project over, you know, one year, two years, three or five years, whatever it is, and break it up into phases. And that absolutely designed the house and think about what's going on outside of those rooms. It's really important. Yes. And it's the same with the garden, to be fair, because we often will get people phoning saying, we just want to do this one section. And the first thing we'll say is just, we can't just do one section, because how it connects to the rest of

the space, you're causing a problem because then you've gone oh well oh wouldn't have that's a lost opportunity we could have done the pathway on the other side or we could have done X Y Z so it's the same thing it's that layout well you might end up losing yeah you might end up losing money if you don't do it right in the first place. Certainly down to things like electrical or wiring or as I said earlier, the M&E, the boring bits, which you don't think about so much, but you want to make sure you're really connected

in the long term. So, yes. So pay for the plan. And then very few people could afford to approach everything all at once. Usually it would be like room by room or area by area. So have the plan and then you can chip away at it. Yeah, definitely because I mean especially if you're doing say a bathroom and

you're looking at you're not looking at the plan for the rest of the house and like a question I really commonly get asked is if I've say got if you've got two bedrooms or two bathrooms or three bathrooms in a house how many of those should you put a bath in? Can you get away with just showers in bathrooms? Or should you have a bath with a shower over it? Or should it be a bathroom which just has a freestanding bath and no shower?

That's a question that comes up an awful lot. It depends on how you live in it and how many children you've got and whether your guests, you know, for a guest I wouldn't say they need a bath, but if that guest bathroom is also gonna to double up as a as a kids' bedroom. Are your kids at the age where they're going to be really likely showering? So I'd say every house should have a bath, always, because I think for resale it's pretty

essential. It's where does that bath want to go and a lot of people think having a bath that doesn't have a shower over it is really lovely and aspirational and comfortable. That is fine but it's also it's you know it's it's a treat to be able to have a bath that has no shower over it so but it might be essential that you have one. So those sorts of things if you plan in advance as I said if you're going to be doing up a bathroom you might then think damn why did I not put I should have put a shower in here because I now can't put a shower in this other bathroom and I want a really good freestanding shower. Little things like that just definitely worth considering.

So how far do you have to take it in terms of planning? Because for garden I'd say just doing that first phase sort of layout and knowing where everything is would be enough maybe also picking the materiality just so that you don't have to want to do that. How about for you in the house and what sort of depth of design does she need to go to? I'd say the most important thing and especially to try and get a half decent quote from a contractor early on which is what you're going to want to do even if you don't start the works is that you are going to want to know what's going on the floor, the walls and the ceilings and now when I say that and also what your heating is going to be,

now when I say what's going on your floor walls and ceilings, you don't have to specify exactly what the product is going to be or the name and product exactly, you know, the exact item, but you are going to have to say, is it going to be a 10 millimeter porcelain or is it going to be a 20 millimeter stone or is it going to be an engineered wood flooring or because they need to know the thickness builds up build ups and also if you're going to be saying it's going to be having underfloor heating is it going to be a wet underfloor heating or is it going to be electric underfloor heating those are the things that are going to help them

give you a much more firmed up cost. Another consideration is that a lot of contractors will not actually come and if you need planning, they won't actually even come and look at the house and give you a quote, unless you have approved planning. That's if they're a really good contractor. So purely because it's a lot of work for guys to put together a tender, they're going to want to know that they're sort of, you know, it's going to be starting soon, not just that you're sticking a finger in the air. So, yeah, try it, just, floor plan is essential. Get your layout sorted first,

get it drawn up basically by an architect because yes, you might, you know, you can put boxes on a plan, but you're not gonna know if you can definitely do it. So I'd say get an architect involved, yeah, to do some spatial planning for you. And then floors, walls, ceilings. You could do a little light electrical plan, but it's more like lighting and electrical.

But I think it's more really knowing what sort of power you're going to be having, you know, cat six cabling, you're going to be having speakers in the ceiling, you're going to be having anything like that. That's going to be an additional cost for AV and things. I could go into so much more depth depth but I think that's the basics. But what about aesthetics, Pau? Because I can only apply it to myself. What if you did your bathroom in like some sort of, I don't know, what's really fashionable right now? Sort of quite cutesy, colorful frills with loads of scallops frozen. I don't know, whatever's fashionable right now. What if you did that,

but then by the time you come around to do whatever the room is connected to or something, your taste has changed or the aesthetic that you want to achieve has changed. Is there any benefit in also sort of bottoming out the sort of general style and aesthetic you want the house to be so that that's consistent too. Absolutely. I mean mood boards. Mood boards the hell out of your house. Create a little mood board basically for each room. So I call this the design Bible. Your design Bible wants to never really change so right from the beginning get all your pictures on a on a PowerPoint presentation or keynote or whatever you use something basic. Get all those images down, start breaking it up then into the rooms that you're

going to be designing. Have a, have a picture that you really love, have a couple of styling images and stick to it. You can change over the course of time, but just have a look at how it looks in your design Bible. If there's suddenly something that's really out there that looks a bit nuts. I mean, you want to have a cohesive thread that runs through the house. So yeah. Because otherwise I imagine you run the risk of becoming a design magpie don't you as time goes on and being like oh I love that, I love that. I mean you know there's so many different design styles I love. So it's a bit like having a capsule wardrobe but for your house. Totally, it's exactly that yeah. And I always,

but for your house. Totally, it's exactly that, yeah. And I always, the way I like to design is that I see the house itself, the sort of, the bare bones, like the sort of, the foundation is gonna be fairly similar in color and texture and it's gonna be neutral and it's gonna have, you're gonna go from different rooms of differing functionalities, but it's gonna have a thread, a really common thread that goes through it. It's going to all be quite sort of calm and you know, lovely if you've either got stone or you've got marble,

but they're all sort of a similar colour. That's what's building up your floors, your walls and your ceilings. And then you can play around with what's going in the rooms that isn't going to be costly, like your furniture or like your curtains or that they are costly, but those are the places that you can then start to have fun and it doesn't matter if you're not going to be doing it for furniture or like your curtains or that they are costly but it those are the places that you can then start to have fun and it doesn't matter if you're not going to be doing it for a year or two those things might change but the foundations you know you're the early elements need to remain the same. It's making me reflect on this in terms of plants actually because I think that's another thing in much the same way that decor should be consistent so should the plants because actually we'll often see

quite confused planting schemes which will have really great plants in but then you know maybe all English cottage garden sort of style plants and then it will be something weird and tropical in there and you're like that does not belong there. Do you find that when you start a design you always have your go-to plants that will be like your, you've probably got a name for them, I don't know, like your bushes or your grasses and those are like your foundation plants and then you add the colourful fun bits later or that you decide on those later? Yeah we've got our hard workers So I would say about 85% of our briefs are People that want a relatively low maintenance garden and like low maintenance gun doesn't exist nor does a low maintenance house

But what what we infer low maintenance to mean is please don't make us be out there constantly staking things tying things in Constant deadheading. It's more just can you give us plants that are gonna give us like bang for our buck in terms of long seasons of flowering and not scary pruning that we don't necessarily understand. So I've got my sort of arsenal of plants that I know I've grown myself or we've used previously that we know work really hard flower for a long time great for pollinators all of that sort of and I you know don't require much more than a haircut so we've got that sort of base layer and grasses is a big form of that. But then obviously every single plant plan we do is different. We'll never use the same plants. We would never be like here's a

recipe let's use it again. We'll always tailor it and I like to try, 10% of our plants will always be an experiment as well. Love that. That's part of the fun of gardening is if we just did the old liables it It would be boring. Yeah, exactly the same indoors. Totally. So we'll always bring in new things, bring in new plants. But yes, but it's what we do early doors, actually, much like you do your mood boards for the house. We do a mood board of the sort of star plants.

So the star hedges, trees and shrubs and even perennials. And it won't be every single one that's going in, but it will be the theme. Yeah, the theme runs through the thread. Exactly, so I would never mix tropical plants with like English country garden, because it instantly looks wrong. Unless it's in a separate room of the garden, if you're having like a tropical garden space

that's sort of completely its own unit, fine. But it's, I mean, it's the curse of the garden center, you know the the old weekend shop and you're like oh that looks nice pick it up and it's like does it go though does it go you know does it sit with its friends or so that's um this is why planning is key. Gosh the amount of times I go to garden centers and I just pick things up and get to the till and I'm like you just don't need that JJ like what are you doing and you don't even know where it's going and you

don't know if it's got any sun in the garden it is terrible it's like it's literally like going to the shops and just buying a t-shirt it's a little thrill though isn't it because it's not too expensive and it's a it's sort of a it scratches an itch and it's and it's I mean it's a bit nuts if I'm like just go and buy another of a plant you've already got just if you want to buy one just go and buy one more salvia caradonna I know you've already got 22 buy another one and add it to that is that right that would be your advice well yeah the advice is always the same which is you're going to end up buying

dozens of the same plant yeah and that feels far less exciting because like buying 47 Mars bars yeah you know who does that well me probably haven't had a Mars bar in ages do you you like Mars bars? I don't like Mars bars. No, I don't like Mars bars. Speaking of which, because our last week's pod, actually, because I think we are we are we done with questions? Should we move on to what's in the other side? Yeah, we're just doing one big one.

We've been having a big old ramble. What is in what's out this week? And I feel like we should ask you, Paul, if mini eggs are out, well, then what is in in your chocolate world? I'm having a bit of a chocolate crisis at the moment. Oh no, are you? Yeah, I really am. And do you know what, this really depresses me.

I wonder if anyone else feels the same. I used to be able to polish off a chocolate fudge cake, a chocolate brownie, you name it. That would be like my pudding of choice after a meal. I would inhale chocolate at the rate. I am finding chocolate a bit too sweet and I feel like I'm turning into my mum who always orders like the fruity desserts and I'd always be like, I'm never ordering the fruity dessert, like ugh, lemon tart, no thank you.

And I feel like age is being cruel to me and taking away my taste buds of joy and being like, oh no, strawberries seem like a nice, no. I am exactly the same. I could, I'd have like a key lime pie or a lemon meringue tart or something like that now. I could, I- What is that? I mean, I just, dairy milk doesn't really do it for me.

But dark chocolate, I love a couple of cubes of dark, really like lovely dark chocolate. Love that. Now you can keep your dark chocolate. But then I have to say I massively fell out with Rocky last week at the school pick up on Friday because I thought it'd be a really nice mum thing to do, like with all the time I've got to go to ASDA and do a trolley dash around and buy all the minis, all the sort of mini little milks and things and put them in two little rabbit bags, you know, to give to each of the kids when they came out so that they could run around and give all the kids a little chocolate treat. So of course they grabbed them, they were

thrilled with this idea and they're running around giving all their friends chocolates on the school gate, pick up, you know, last day of school. Well that's such a nice thing to do. Well then went to the park with the girls. Gosh you're a nice mummy aren't you? Well you'll try. And then, and so we're walking to the park and I sort of like, just had a look in the bag and I thought well there's a curly whirly in there,

have that curly whirly. Picked up the curly whirly, started eating it, Rocky looked at me and she started screaming. She was like, that's my curly whirly! Grabbed it from me, threw it on the floor, started stamping on it, furious at me. That's, she'd saved that for herself. Honestly, you should have seen the tantrum.

This went on half an hour. This went on for half an hour. I've been right there with her. If you'd have eaten my curly whirly, I would have done much the same. Other mums are coming over to see if she's okay. No, not okay, not okay. Really not happy with me at all. So just don't Nick, don't Nick's Rockies curly whirly's. Apparently Victoria Beckham, her

treat of choice is half a curly whirly, not a whole one. Oh, I would be a half, wouldn't it? I mean how can you start a curly whirly and not finish it? How can you start? No, I can't do that. I had to eat the whole thing. Did you as a kid used to roll them into a ball? So it was a giant ball? No. Yeah, big toffee ball. You suck all the chocolate off and it's just a giant toffee ball. I used to do some weird things with chocolate when I was a kid. Twix literally bite all the bits off the back, roll it like a snail. So the toffee chocolate rolls into a snail. That's how I'd eat my Twix. Yeah. Ptobe Roe was pretty disgusting. I used to bite the top off, suck all the bits of marzipan out

and then put them on the foil and collect them all. And then I would eat the little ball of marzipan of the sort of nougat, whatever it was called. Everything, Jaffa cakes, eat the ring off the outside, peel the biscuit off the underside and then suck. Everyone does that. Suck the Jaffa. Yeah. Nothing would get eaten normally when I was a kid.

To answer your question, I don't have one and I feel a bit in-betwixt and in-between. In-betwixt? They've changed the formula of dairy milk, it doesn't taste the same anymore. So out is my taste buds. Oh dear. Devastating. Devastating. Okay.

Suck on a lemon. You go suck on a lemon. You go suck on a lemon. You go suck on a rhubarb. I tell you what's out for me is that we've just finished White Lotus. Oh, so good. Block your ears if you haven't seen it and you don't want to spoil it.

I have never felt more anxiety watching something in my life the music and everything is exact It's anxiety and juicy. I go to bed. I couldn't sleep because it's like but I but I didn't think it was nearly Nearly as good as the previous didn't really get the acting was brilliant everything, but it was a bit of an anti climax Anti climatic. I loved it. I thought it was very clever Yeah Did did the people that died are they the people you was very clever. Yeah, just didn't really go anywhere. Did the people that died, are they the people you thought would die? No, I didn't expect it. No. Oh really? Right, let's not go too much into that one.

All right, on that note, don't forget to like, subscribe and share the podcast with Orland Sundry. I imagine all of you are going to be seeing family, friends or possibly not seeing anyone, you do you, for Easter. So, you know, be sure to bring that up at the Easter table or when you're doing an Easter egg hunt. Yes, that's a good idea. Share it with all your other Easter egg hunters. Happy Easter. Happy Easter.

Love you. Happy chocolate-easing. Goodbye my loves.