The Ins & Outs - SEASON FINALE

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

On today's season finale we cover women in the workplace and Jojo at Polly’s house!Jojo helps a listener who wants to decorate her child's bedroom but doesn't want it to date.Polly explains how and where to start with your garden design, including where you should spend your money.Plus, we read you a hilarious story from a listener, which you don't want to miss!InstagramPodcast - @the_insandouts_Jojo - @houseninedesignPolly - @pollyanna_wilkinsonProducer Andy - @andy_rowe_WebsitesJojo - https://www.housenine.co.uk/Polly - https://www.pollyannawilkinson.com/Pod Rowe Productions - https://www.podrowe.net/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is brought to you by Google Pixel. I'm Jessi Cruikshank. I host the number one comedy podcast called Phone a Friend. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel. It's a phone powered by Gemini, your personal AI assistant. Gemini can help you summarize your unread emails,

suggest what to make with the food in your fridge, and it helped me achieve a family photo where everyone is smiling at the camera. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9. Learn more at store.google.com. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,

they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Green, the color of true elation. Pond on a summer's day See I've been waiting for you

Waiting for you Hello Inns and Outies and welcome to this season finale of the Inns and Outs with myself Jojo Barr and the very lovely Pollyanna Wilkinson. In today's episode we are going to be talking women in the workplace, I'll be ruffling some feathers over at Polly's house. How to decorate children's bedrooms so they don't date. And Polly talks about where to start with your garden design. And we have a hilarious story from a listener.

So we are going to jump on in and I hope you enjoy. Hello, pal. How are you, my old girl? I'm very well indeed. I'm trying to think of anything I've done this week to tell you. Well, I know what you did this week that I could tell you. What? I came over and I saw your house.

That's what happened. That should be the highlight of your bloody week. How could you possibly forget such a thing? It was the highlight. Do you know what? I've said it before, I'll say it again. Seeing you in action, the things that you came up with, with the builders were just cracking. Although,

can we please talk about our experience with my lovely builders? Yes. So I have, this is, okay, let's set the picture here. So this tends to happen on every single site that I walk into. the first time you meet the contractors it's usually oh here we go she's come along to messing you know cause problems you know here comes a woman on site she's going to change her mind and they very openly speak to you like that and I don't think they mean it in a you know I think it's a lot of it said in jest but I'm going to tell you that nearly every single building site I work on, we have that same reaction from our lovely male builders. But you witnessed it firsthand.

I did. And do you know what? It's really tricky, isn't it? Because both of us were laughing along. But really, I was thinking, no, it's not funny. It's not funny. It's not funny. But as a woman, there's this part of you that feels like you need to laugh along because you couldn't possibly be like, that's rude and offensive. We'll come back to this in a minute because I would love to talk a bit more about your renovation, obviously seeing the house. But I've just started, and I'm going to not say reading. I'd like to say I was reading it.

But of course, you know, I'm all for like my audible, like getting the old audible in my ears. That's not reading. I feel like I've got podcasts and audibles and sort of loads of things on the go at the moment, but I've started a recommendation from one of my friends from my business course, Caroline, who recommended Mary Portis' new book, which is called Work Like a Woman. Have you heard of it? No. Work Like a Woman by Mary Portis. And I tell you what, Work Like a Woman by Mary Portis.

And I tell you what, you listen to the first chapter and your blood starts boiling. And it's about women in the workplace and how we just still are not equal. We are not equal by any means. And it's so interesting how after all these years, you'd think by now we would be expecting the same positions, high up, same paychecks, but we're not. Only six of our top 100 performing companies in this country are headed by women. And here's a good one for you. So bear in mind that hairdressing is one of the most female-orientated businesses.

In any hairdressing salon you go into, there aren't usually many men in there. But can you name a single famous female hairdresser in the public eye? No. Mm-hmm. I can't. no I can't Vidal Sassoon, Trevor Sorby, Tony and Guy, John Frieda, Nicky Clark all men all men well closer to home my friend when I and I'm sure it's the same for you

when I go and speak at courses but colleges it is about 80 female the the people on those courses the students coming through i would argue the proportion of women to men in garden design is much more towards women and yet if you open the magazines there's a lot of men in them and the same on main avenue and the same on just generally even on the tv shows around garden design it tends to be hosted by men. Which is confusing given the proportion of women in the industry. It's not very proportional. So it's frustrating to see.

Well, let me tell you, she goes on to say she works in obviously the fashion world. Now, she's spent a lot of time on TV and working with the BBC. The BBC is basically run by middle class white men. And therefore they choose what goes on television. And football, fashion is 10 times more lucrative as a business than football. And yet there is nothing about fashion on TV. There's minimal programs. And that's because the men choose what goes on TV.

I am so glad that we're coming on to this. Because I have said my whole life, you know my feelings about football. And one of the things that really bugs me about football is that I resent the fact that men have a place to escape to, which basically trumps everything. So it's on Boxing Day, you can vacate from your family life on Boxing Day because it's football. You can, at a wedding, it's expected if it's a big game that it's televised. It's on a Sunday, you can just vacate your, or Saturday, I don't know, football days. You can vacate your childcare responsibilities to go to the pub to watch football. And I have always said, I wish there was an equivalent.

For me, it would be fashion. I wish there was a television show which was live every week and on special days that was broadcast and that we could all go to the pub and all the women are watching this and I know there are lots of women that like football so I don't want to genderize it but but I wish I've always thought I wish there was an equivalent well look we women make up half the population right so and yet we are not being satisfied our needs are not being satisfied and what we're watching on television it's aimed more at men and this is the reason because it's run that you know the the top get to decide what we what we see and I am going to bring it through

as well into interior design because there are so few interior design shows aimed at women in this country, as in like hardly any that would have actually appealed to women. Like let's take the ins and outs. Let's take us. Hey, listen up BBC. If you want to female bosses, you know, with a show on the BBC,

we're your gals. No, we're available. We're available. We're up for a bit of TV, aren't but um but anyway I found that really really startling and if anyone wants to get a bit riled up but also to make a actually start to really sort of make a change like perhaps in your workplace you know you don't allow when you start to actually realize that you can be sitting in it next to someone at your desk and he's a, you know, you've got a male colleague, the likely it is that he's being paid more than you, even if you're in the same role

across the board. It's really not good. Did you also know, last fact of the day before we head back to your reno, but two, only two in 61 British women have been prime ministers. British women have been prime ministers. We've only had two out of 61 prime ministers. But that's just taken as a given, isn't it? That's just taken as like, well, of course. There has never been a female governor. Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm screaming into the abyss.

I feel like, honestly, there's never been a female governor of the Bank of England since 1964. There's never been a female president of the United States. No. Ever. No. I do apologise for the noise it's going to be particularly loud today because i have an absolute fleet of gentlemen on site today with i don't know making a lot of noise so i do apologize but it's you know it's on brand isn't it it is so um i went over to polly's house this week with my lovely katie um designer at house nine and we it literally is a building site the outside the house it is crawling

with builders and we sort of climbed over the gravel and and skips and went through the front door a little tour of the house which is the building site but then you walk through the back of the house and you look out and oh you see the back of the garden it's like this sanctuary of this of course you've done it that way around your beautiful new garden your vegetable patch everything's just so it's it's such a I love what you've done back there it's gorgeous with your lovely little office and oh thank you it's lovely so it was really nice to come and see it and um and obviously get on the site and start to it's I tell you when you when being on a building site is something that really makes me tick. I absolutely love it.

I feel like I sort of come to life on a building site, as mad as that sounds. But I see so much possibility. And that's why it's so essential that you get right up in front of it from the start, because there's so many things that you can see and that you might miss. And you've got to catch them early. So, which we did. We caught quite a few, didn't we? You did. We caught quite a few, didn't we? You did.

I think it's a real lesson. And I believe it so strongly outside that it's lovely to see it inside as well. But there are things that you are just, you can do the best design in the world. Until you're on site and you see things happening, things come up, don't they? And I think that's something which always surprises people. And actually, the things which you caught, i'd been like oh i just can't have a sink there it's not possible there was a room i really wanted one in and we just couldn't fit and jojo was like we'll put it here the pipe can go here boom boom boom the builders like oh yeah

not a problem and it's it's not for the builders to be presenting those solutions it's so it's uh yeah i mean it's worth its weight in gold in my view it's very exciting but i must admit the renovation is starting to take its toll oh is it living in a building site is starting to be a bit yeah yeah it's not fun i tell you it's one of my i tell you i always say it it's one of my one bit of advice i can give to anybody if there's anything you can do to not be on a building site when works you know when um your house is being renovated if there's any way you can go and stay or move out then do because it is it's hard work isn't it it's a real it's the consistent noise of the banging and the drilling and the and then constantly people coming over and asking questions and it and there's a lot of

dust and dirt and it's it's full-on it's a full-on process but you've got something really exciting to look forward to at the end of it you know that's what you've just got to keep holding on to the end result yes and I must say I'm so grateful it's happening in summer I'm so grateful because I don't have any downstairs space now and just being able to be out in the garden is a godsend because otherwise I would just be sitting in my room like an angry teenager for the next six months. Exactly. And your garden looks so lovely, Paul. It looks just, oh, I tell you, it's inspiration for days and days back there. It really is. It's really given me such food for thought and excitement for what my garden could eventually be. Love that. Oh my gosh. I've got a couple of things to ask you. I've been keeping notes because things come to me and then I think I must ask Jojo.

So I went to a well-known member's house. Club. That's a farm. And they had very aggressively chopped pillows. Yes. And I wanted to know your thoughts on pillow chopping i'm a pillow chopper but i'm a like a light pillow chopper i don't like a right down to the sort of center this was like a this was like um they split those those things in two with their chop it looks like i always think it looks like a uh what is that what's the um it looks like

it looks like a fortune what's the thing's the um it looks like oh it looks like a fortune what's the thing you crap crap open crack that's it fortune cookie fortune cookie no i don't go fortune cookie on my on my cushions just a sort of light no light chop yeah it's just it's more the puffiness of the cushion if it's really well filled really beautifully well filled and the filler goes right up into the corners i always nag about that but right up into the corners and then just a light chop in the middle that's what you want just a gentle chop but actually you kind of want to chop it at the top and then a slight chop on the sides as well so it's like a oh hello like a chop chop yeah little chop on the sides

just to give it that just to give a little waistline yeah just give the cushion a little waistline you know yeah a little nip i need a waistline. Just give me that oomph. Yeah, just give the cushion a little waistline, you know? Yeah, a little nip. I need a waistline after all this travelling. You have a waistline. Stop that. Oh my gosh, can I just... This is our 40th episode, which I can't quite believe. 40 episodes we've banked, mate.

That's a lot of airtime. Blimey. I know, that's probably about 60 hours of you and me sitting talking to each other like this so more than that let's face it more than that we thought with this round number of 40 this would be our last episode of the summer we're going to take a break guys we're going to take a break because my. We're going to take a break because, my God, I really need a break. Just from everything. Not from you, pal, but, you know, but this podcast is going to go on pause.

We'll be back early September. We're back in your ear holes when the schools kick off again. But do actually, whilst you're away and you're lying on your sun loungers or running around doing the hoovering or looking after your kids or the human doors and whilst you're doing all those things, do you remember to send us in your questions so that we've got some, you know, fun stuff to come back to and tell us, you know, obviously. And obviously do remember to like and subscribe. If you're on your sun lounger, that's the perfect opportunity to be like, we miss you. We love you. Come back.

And start spreading us worldwide. If you are on your holiday, you know, and there's a sort of, there's a nice waiter that's serving you by the pool. Or, you know, you're out on a walk in a little French village. Do, by all means, tell people about the ins and outs. I'm sure there's some sort of translator that they could use. Let's blow this wide open. Let's send it global. Anyway, I think with that, we should do some extra special questions.

What do you think? Yes. Okay, let's start indoors. This is from Marion. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise on the podcast. I've listened to every episode. Yes, Marion. I moved into my house a few years ago.

All the windows and doors are teak UPVC internally and externally, which I'm really not a fan of. Would you recommend painting them? And if so, how do I go about this? What type of paint slash undercoat should I use? Will it last long? Please advise me as I don't want to mess this up. It's such a big job. Thank you. I value your opinions greatly. Thank you, Marion. I do know we actually get so many questions about UPVC windows and I don't know why I was so far haven't answered them. So I should. Let's start right here with yours, Marion. Now, the reason many of us don't like UPVC and there's so many eye rolls and, oh God, I've got UPVC windows and oh, aren't they awful. The reason we don't like them is because they tend to be very chunky and they tend to be very shiny um and that's sort of I think when you think of a UPVC window you tend to think white and it's very plasticky and very shiny in this instance she's sewing their teak so they're almost like a sort of teak colored wood but they're also sort of shiny and you've got very sort of large dark joints so when painting them and

decorating them that yeah there are pros to uvpvc windows obviously it's the longevity excellent at keeping out you know um sort of the the heat and the cold and um so they have their they have their benefits and obviously they're much more affordable than most other windows the way to get around painting them it is a big job i'm not going to lie it is a big job um you can obviously get them taken away and sprayed and done professionally or you can do them yourself if you're going to do them yourself preparation is key so before painting any pvc plastic surface you've got to ensure that it's cleaned and prepared correctly you cannot cut corners otherwise it will start to peel so preparation is key don't use bleach or white spirits because it

will break down the plastic it's not good for it and just soap mortar or trusty vinegar and then what you want to do is sand prime two coats and then you want a top coat you have to use a specialist upvc paint here okay in your case marion you've got a teak a teak color and therefore it's dark your joints on a upvc window actually on any upvc windows tend to be dark so they tend to have if you look sort of almost between the piece of glass on either side you tend to have black sort of um it sort of looks like sealant and therefore if you would suddenly paint your windows light you're going to see all of the joins so in a way you're better off keeping to a darker paint color so just be considerate that if you want to go light on your windows um you are maybe going to see those joints have a look at that and therefore

think about a dark paint color maybe more like a dark green or something that's going to see those joints have a look at that and therefore think about a dark paint colour maybe more like a dark green or something that's going to sort of help disguise them Oh clever Do you sort of mean? I do see what you mean Yeah so you have to think about that so yeah the shadows created by the block-like frames

will disappear with dark paint and therefore look more cohesive The great thing is about painting upvc is that because it's plastic it the reason we don't like it as i said is because it's shiny and as soon as you paint it if it's done properly um you've then got a paint finish so it's going to look much less like upvc so um but that's that's basically that's my advice that's that's yeah i would say just preparation is preparation is key and go dark just to avoid seeing any joins paul i've got one here from mother of twins uh good on you gal what plants and tips for setting out plants would polly suggest

for a naturalistic planting scheme we have a southeast facing very sunny garden with existing birch trees, although with not much shade. So we'd like to take a natural woodland scheme. Thanks. Love you both. And the podcast is a joy. Thank you, Mother of Twins. Okay, I'm going to go out on a slight limb here in that if you've got a really, really sunny garden, you can't have a woodland scheme because woodland isn't sunny. Woodland is shady. So I think I'm going to take you in a different direction with this, which is let's work with the sunlight you have. So we're going to go naturalistic scheme, but we're going to lean into the sun.

So here is a really great tip. If you want to go for a more Pete O'Dolph, looser, wafty scheme p o'dolph who's p o'dolph p o'dolph p p i e t pete is arguably one of the most iconic plantsman garden designers of our time he's dutch he is incredible he's done oh, I'm just going to embarrass myself by forgetting everything that he's done, but he's done one of my absolute favourite planting schemes is the one at Hauser and Worth, but he's just done the new scheme at Wisley as well. His schemes are what nearly all of us garden designers would look up to. He is an icon. He's a living legend. All right, I think we get it. I think we get that you like him.

What Pete does so beautifully is he does matrix planting, but it's very, very naturalistic. His entire ethos is towards something more naturalistic. And the trick here is that you're moving quite far away from cottage garden. So cottage garden is quite bloom heavy. Naturalistic is much more grass heavy. So if you want to give that sort of wafty, open, more natural vibe, the trick would be to do something like 50% grasses. And that freaks a lot of people out. But essentially, it's a bit that sort of balance of mass and void. With all of the grasses, you're doing lots of filler, and then you're putting fewer plants in that you repeat. and that gives a more naturalistic

feel. So if you want to do that, one of the best grasses you could use is Seslaria autumnalis. S-E-S-L-A-R-I-A, Seslaria. Really great grass that you can weave through other plants. So that is, I would recommend you consider that or there's, there are other grasses, Sporobolus, which is just fun to say, but it's also a great grass, is another one you could use. But if you used, for example, 50% of your planting, essentially that is your base. It's a bit like Cesslaria is your foundation. And then the flowers are the blush, the mascara. So Cesslaria is the base. And then you could include things like achillea

which i talked about actually in the foraging workshop uh episode because achillea which is sort of a flat head and it comes in all sorts of different colors from orange to white to pink or white is the one that you would see out in the wild the most yarrow is its colloquial name that's the sort of thing which you kind of find in a wildflower meadow but that you could use amongst grasses and that would look absolutely beautiful and then you can sort of pick some of your favourite things so one of my absolute favourites something like an agastache is something you could put in with that and you have sort of clumps of them woven through this matrix of seslaria and that is what will make it feel

naturalistic so So it's a really long way of saying use loads of grasses. The She Soars podcast is an absolute must for conversations about sexual and reproductive health and rights. We are a group of passionate young women from across Canada who are exploring global issues that affect girls' lives and choices and how they relate to Canadian youth. Tune in to season three of the She Soars podcast for more hot topics and inspiring speakers from around the world and discover ways we can all take action. Her rights, her voice. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Google Pixel. I'm Jessi

Cruikshank. I host the number one comedy podcast called Phone a Friend. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel. It's a phone powered by Gemini, your personal AI assistant. Gemini can help you summarize your unread emails, suggest what to make with the food in your fridge, and it helped me achieve a family photo where everyone is smiling at the camera. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9. Learn more at store.google.com. Okay, we've got a question from Rosie. I love the pod. I've learned so much from you both. I'm currently redoing my son's bedroom, which hasn't changed since he was a baby.

Are there any tips for bedrooms for an eight-year-old boy which will grow with him? It's a Victorian house, north-facing room, desperately trying to avoid superheroes. Thanks, Rosie. I hear you, Rosie. I love this question. I actually love anything to do with when it comes to kids' rooms, because especially as kids get older, when they're babies, when they're born, we decide what our kids' bedroom, the baby's rooms look like. But when they get to eight years old, they have their own minds. They know what they like. And as much as we can try and force something upon them that we like, at the end of the day, this is their space. So I think it's really important at this age to allow your children to have a say and allow their personality to come through in their bedrooms, because essentially this is their little space.

Now, with it being a north-facing room, I think you have got to be considerate that it's quite dark. And therefore, if you're suddenly sort of chucking navy blue up on the wall, it's going to feel quite austere. As an eight-year-old, they're going to start to do homework. Think about where they do their homework. Does he do a lot of it in his bedroom? If he does, you don't want to create a room that feels quite gloomy and dark and over cluttered so first off think about storage um if you do want to put color in the room maybe go in a north-facing room with something a bit more like greens and sages and then introduce things like if i don't know if he's into football or like you say superheroes those sorts of things maybe get

just nice you know some cool there's some really awesome posters out there that you can get framed up and put up on the wall to add some interest but I always say the foundation of a kid's rooms needs to be fairly simple actually because it's the things that they have that will add the sort of fun and the character and it might even just be a simple you know Roman blind um but I think work work with him and create almost a little scheme together I think that's a really nice thing to do pull some paint pullers out that you obviously like, that you approve of, and lay them out and give him a choice.

Allow him to make that decision. I think probably just also thinking about him sort of getting older, coming up from his eight years, it's not going to be long before he's sort of heading into the double digits. And then it is teenage years. And therefore, if you want it to last,

don't go with anything that feels gimmicky you know go with colors that feel that's why i always talk about sort of sages and you know fairly more neutrals and then it's the things that you're putting in it that are going to change but um yeah i'd say work with him and just and just keep the colors fairly tonal don't go too bold even if he's sort of you, crying out for a bit of bold. Also, don't forget, paints can be easily changed. Wallpapers are more expensive, you know, more expensive to apply. Fabric on Romans and curtains, obviously a lot more expensive.

They can be, you know, a costly item. And that's something you're not really going to want to have to change. So with those, maybe go with a nice simple stripe on the blinds. That's something that's going to last him all the way until he moves out, hopefully. But the colours on the walls, you can always change. Let me ask you something, because this is something I've done in my son's bedroom as a temporary measure, because he's football crazy, the irony. I've got vinyl footballs on the wall, because he really wanted a football-themed room.

I was like, was like we're not no we're not doing that um because he's 10 and i i can see him going off not football but going off the idea of his room being decorated that way so i did that because it was a way of like whacking him on and then they can just be peeled off when he tires of them and and it's yeah you go vinyl stickers are great they're really good and do, kids do get fed up with things really quickly. But also they can go completely mad. And I'm not a snob when it comes to, in kids' bedrooms. If you go up into my girl's bedroom, it's like an absolute explosion of colour and fun and energy and their personality.

And at the end of the day, I'm not going to cross that for what I want. I don't believe in walking into a kid's bedroom that's all beige and everything looks perfect and it's got silk embroidered pillowcases. And I just think that's, is that how children want to live? I don't personally think so. So kids are going to make a mess.

They're going to want, you know, garish bright colours. They're going to want footballs and walls. Let them have it. They're only kids for a short period of time. So let them have it. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I wouldn't let them have it they're only they're only kids for a short period of time so yeah let them have it yeah I wouldn't let them do anywhere else in my house but you know that's that's anyway all right my love heading back out into the garden the jardin got one here from she's saying she's an innie but this is an outie question just finished a year-long renovation of my house and now it's finished it's making the

garden look really sad and disconnected where do i start and what should i set aside for budget for a garden sorry i know how long was a piece of string but any advice would be so greatly appreciated good question um excellent question first trusting that isn't it actually i'd like her first to get into a time machine and design the garden at the same time as the house. No, but she's saying it feels, I think she might have quite liked her garden before. I think she's saying it feels disconnected because she's finished her house now, you see. So yeah, we can't give her a hard time. Nevertheless, fine.

So where to start? So, well, I mean, I guess the first question is, do you want to do this on your own or do you want some help and then you've got varieties of help you can go for from full garden design shebang with garden designer you could do um a quickie advice session with the likes of me or others or you can go completely on your own so you've got options but let's uh I don't know what she's going to do let's assume she's going it alone well first off i'm actually going to direct her to all your videos because that's a really good place to start with planning out your garden you've made a series of videos poll on instagram that were absolutely gold so an amazing free advice for everybody um but that's a really good place to

start i would say well it's a good place to start but But how do you, how do you, how would you look at it? I mean, I have to say, Bridget, I look at my garden and I think, oh my God, I've got no, I have no idea how much that is going to cost out there. Is there a price per square foot that you use-ish in gardens? No, not really. Because when we do that, it's often wrong. So the old chestnut used to be 10% of the value of your house. But that really depends where you live. Because in central London, where there's multi million pound houses, 10% of the value of their house is probably too much given the garden is

probably quite small. Whereas if you live out in the sticks and you've got a very reasonably priced house, but you sit on three acres, that's not going to be enough. So it's that 10% is sort of a finger in the air, broad brush. 10 to 20% is probably a more accurate description. Gardens cost just as much as houses. So I think, you know, I don't know, 10%, 20% of the value of your house, very rough guide. Equally, it doesn't mean you have to spend that. If you've got great boundaries, if you've got good quality fences or a lovely hedge, great. You don't need to change it. If you've got robust fences, but they're ugly, paint them.

If you need to replace them because they're rotten, that's a whole different beast, replace them. You can do loads with plants. You can reuse your hardscape. So I'm sort of saying that is the cost if you gut job and you want to start again but if you you know i think it's really important that people feel like they could do things on all budgets and i really feel that way but it might be that you're doing it yourself it might be you're using your materials again you're reusing your paving gravel goes a long way in terms of if you want a material that really

stretches for your money. And then you could do so much just with adding plants. So much of what I see is about the fact that there's too much lawn and there aren't enough plants. And you can transform a space solely by changing the planting style and the shape of your borders. So I think we could do loads there. So to come back to your question which is where do i start start with the design don't just start designing worst thing you can do design the piece by the house and not the rest of the garden design the whole garden together whether you pay someone to do that or you do it yourself design the whole thing it will have connectivity and flow and then you can chip away at it when budget allows or time allows the bit that most people want to do first is the bit by the

house because obviously that's immediately outside your thresholds so um but really just focus on the design as a whole it doesn't matter whether we do the smallest courtyard or an estate we will always do the master plan first if that is where you can start and then your budget you can you don't have to build your whole garden at once you can chip away at it that's what a lot of people do it's rare that you've got you know hundreds of thousands of pounds to do it all at once but then in terms of allocating money people often ask where you should spend your money and for me i would say i would pay for good quality stone i think the thing which i think can really let a garden down it can be the nicest layout in the world but if it's got really crap cheap nasty stone with big grout gaps i'm like oh shame and you know unless you're doing massive great swathes of it the the cost differential isn't so much that it should put

you off obviously if you've got gargantuan garden it's a bit different but even then you could have the really nice stone by the house and you could you know further away you could use less nice so for me that's plants grow you can buy younger plants you can grow your own plants you can grow from seed if you're patient and green fingered so that's where I would direct your funds and on a good design if you want to bring in a pro we're very good thanks Paul you are very good right okay i've got to read this out this is really funny this is from a listener of ours emma barnes this is in response to last week's semen tree oh the old sweet chestnut so she's emma said absolutely howled laughing listening to this yesterday on the pod but it kind of reminded me in a weird PTSD kind of way

of being on holiday in Sri Lanka and seeing cinnamon plants growing. I spent ages sniffing these little bushes, trying to work out what I could smell, what memory this aroma was unlocking. Then it hit me in the face, literally sperm. I could smell sperm. I had my nose buried deep in a spunk bush and naturally my British mouth couldn't say it so my face did and the delightful lady in her late 60s who was staying in our hotel was very concerned about what had caused my face to drop in such a way and she weren't taking no. It's nothing. I'm fine. Oh no. she kept on at me until i fessed up and gave her the truth it smells like semen rita the cinnamon plant smells like semen at which point she wrinkled her nose plunged it deep into the leaves inhaled like diver hitting the surface of the ocean and said, ah, yes, good times. Yes, Rita.

Rita. That is so, that honestly, Emma, that really tickled us. I tell you, we've got some, on our group chat, we've got some absolute howlers from that. So thank you so much for sharing your experience of this sort of pungent smell. Special tree. Yes. Before we go, we have one last last thing to tackle what is in and what

is out i have an in i have an in hit me with it so uh i have watched a brilliant tv show this past week or two called lady jane gray and it's on amazon prime and it's about Lady Jane Grey. Have you heard Lady Jane Grey? I've heard the name, but I can't put my finger on who it is. Okay, so she was Queen of England before Mary for like, I think, I want to say either nine or 11 days. And then she was beheaded

because Mary wanted the throne. But it is a brilliant brilliant show it's um kind of bridgerton vibes in that it's historic but they use modern music and some modern language and um you'll recognize quite a few of the faces in it it is it's got duck face from four weddings as the oh i love the mom of lady jane gray she's amazing in it but it is if you want just like a kind of candy philosopher the brain binge watch it is fantastic it's hilarious it's got an interesting little little spin on it about where some humans are animals um and they somewhat change history but not really it's fantastic and actually she she's a fascinating figure in history that she was queen for these like handful of days

and then beheaded and also my friend double header for you just to wave off the innies and the outies i've got a good summer read oh go along with the mary porcius which is for our for our spirits and souls yes um if you just want a lovely beach read then there's's a new book by Coco Mellers, who did Cleopatra and Frankenstein, which you read recently, called The Blue Sisters. It's just as good as that. It's a great, easy read about sort of sisters. And it's, oh, it's fabulous. If you get a really lovely, easy read. I canter through it in like a day and a half.

So highly recommend. So that should be a little summer reading for you, my friends. What's out jojo we're out we are well and truly out mic drop mic drop i just wanted to do that thing where i just flung my mic away and just walked out the room but then i've obviously got to press leave and say do that too no don't do that get in trouble then um but we are out guys and um we love you very much we hope you all have a wonderful summer, whatever you are doing, and we'll see you on the other side.

Don't forget to keep deadheading. Deadhead. Yeah, that's what you do. That's your job for the summer. And what else should they do? Deadhead and? Deadhead and? Prune your lavender mid-August.

And? We've talked about this. And lights. Oh, and I feel like we've already covered this. But like, subscribe, and write us a review from your sun lounger. I would like you to tell every single Greek, Spanish, Italian, French, waiter or waitress, probably actually the waitresses more interested than the waiters, about our podcast. Yes.

You could tell other nationalities too i'm just being generalist about where the very great british public go on holiday or indeed you could share this episode indeed with your boss so a man. If your boss isn't. We've been very, very choppy waters here, aren't we? But I like it. I like it. Oh, shit. I like it.

And I see it. And that is a wrap on the ins and outs. All right, guys. We love you so much. Please go and have a lovely summer and take some time for you guys big deep breaths we love you all auf wiedersehen goodbye ain't nothing wrong with putting those kids in camp we love you

this episode is brought to you by google pixel i'm'm Jessi Cruikshank. I host the number one comedy podcast called Phone a Friend. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel. It's a phone powered by Gemini, your personal AI assistant. Gemini can help you summarize your unread emails, suggest what to make with the food in your fridge, and it helped me achieve a family photo where everyone is smiling at the camera. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9.

Learn more at store.google.com. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Are you scouring the web for the best Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals? Then you need to add Rakuten to your arsenal. Rakuten is like a shopping sidekick that gives you cash back at your favorite stores

and finds you the best deals. Right now, you can get up to 15% cash back at hundreds of stores, including Dyson, Adidas, Lenovo, and Expedia. You can even stack cash back on top of sales and promo codes. That's like savings on savings. With Rakuten, you can spend more time shopping for what you love and less time worrying you're missing out on better deals. Now's the perfect time to join.

Up to 15% cash back ends on December 2nd. And did I mention that it's super easy? Just go to Rakuten.ca, click on a store or deal, and shop like normal. Cash back will automatically be added to your account, and you can get it by PayPal or check. Join for free at Rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.