The James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan - 12: 3 Special Guests & Aidan Jones
Episode Date: March 13, 2022Clout! Thanks to Luke Heggie, Simon Taylor, and Sam Campbell, and Aidan Jones.Watch Aidan Jones’ special, Taco: https://youtu.be/1mDhKRBeBscJoin the Patreon for bonus episodes, and so I can finally ...buy a boat sooner: www.patreon.com/jdfmccann Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Thank you for listening to this episode of the James Donald Forbes McCann catamaran plan.
If you'd like to listen to bonus episodes, go sign up to the Patreon.
That's patreon.clom.
Clom? Ah, we f***ed it.
Anyway, look, you'll find a way.
Catamaran Home! and I'm here to tell you about the new Google Pixel 9 powered by Gemini. Anyone who knows me knows the Pixel has always been my favorite out of all the phones I've ever had.
Now, with Gemini built in, it's basically my personal AI assistant.
Since I'm truly terrible at keeping up with emails,
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You can learn more about Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com.
And welcome to yet another episode of the James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan.
It's a podcast all about using a podcast for me to buy a boat.
We have boat money from the advertising. We have boat money
from a special Patreon with special Patreon episodes. We connive plans to use our listeners,
well, work with our listeners is maybe a less exploitative way to phrase that, but to make
money for the boat. We've currently got about $3,000 towards the catamaran.
We need $500,000.
So really quickly narrowing in on 1%.
At the moment, the Adelaide fringe is on.
And if there's one thing I know about podcasts
is that it's very important to have clout.
Clout.
So what I thought I would do is get as many interviews as I could
with comedians at the Adelaide Fringe
and then use the clout of having them on there to get more listeners,
to get more advertising money, to get a boat sooner.
So I didn't have the organisational skills to sit down with a lot of different people.
What I've done is just shoved my phone in the faces of as many people as I can,
who might be able to give me a little bit of clout. So here are some interviews from the
Adelaide Free. I'm here with Luke Heggie. Luke, have you ever been on a boat? Oh, I used to work
on boats. I bet there are some good stories there. Thank you for coming on the show, Luke Heggie. You're have you ever been on a boat? Oh, I used to work on boats.
I bet there are some good stories there.
Thank you for coming on the show, Luke Heggie.
You're welcome.
Anytime.
Thanks for having me.
I'm joined here on the program before a gig with the great Simon Taylor.
Well, you know who Simon Taylor is,
and here he is.
Well, I love that he said,
are you free right now?
I'll just shove this phone in my face.
Now, Simon, do you have any history with boats?
Yeah.
My mum came to this country on a boat.
Beautiful.
Isn't that wonderful, boats bringing people together?
Yeah, she was fleeing war.
Well, it's been a real treat having Simon Taylor on the podcast.
Thank you to Simon Taylor.
Go see his shows at the Adelaide Fringe and other festivals.
Thank you very much.
Oh, thank you.
I'm joined here by the great Sam Campbell
on the James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan podcast.
Sam, have you ever been on a boat?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, great having Sam Campbell here on the podcast.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me, James.
Thanks to all of them and to all the other people who I didn't use
because they weren't famous and successful enough to go on my podcast.
We did have one wonderful long chat where Aidan Tarko-Jones, who's a comedian who's having an
increasingly large amount of success, came over to my house to play my piano and drop off a
beautiful blanket for my children, which was just very sweet. And I said, Aidan, while we've got you,
come outside to the makeshift gazebo that we have for the shade and the summer heat,
and let's do an interview. We did a chat, and it was really, really great. And so the length and
breadth of this interview, even though Taco might not have quite as much clout yet as those other people,
I think Taco's clout is going to grow.
There's a question in the business as to what to call him.
He's got a great show about it called Taco.
I always slip into calling him Taco because I always used to call him Taco.
Aiden Taco Jones.
Aiden Jones.
He's very loosey-goosey about it.
It's one of the things I love about this man.
We have a great interview. It goes for a while. Listen, enjoy the interview. I ask him about his
success, how he's having it, how he's dealt with an uninterrupted period of not having success
up to this point. I love it. Here we go. Enjoy. Here it is.
The expression, those who can't do, teach, I've always found to be very moving, especially its invert, which I've also found to be true. Those who can do, cannot teach.
Cannot teach. Interesting.
And what I find interesting about the trajectory that
you've been on and the success you've had over the last i would say two years sure you covet was a
big speed bump but immediately before covet and then coming out great guns post-covid
is that you slogged away in the business for a decade years you slogged away in obscurity. No opportunities.
Beyond that, not getting opportunities
that are entry-level, normal opportunities
that even the most hopeless and unusual people...
To this day, you tell me you can't get gigs in Adelaide.
Yes, correct.
It's mental. And now, you get booked get gigs in Adelaide. Yes, correct. It's mental.
It is.
And now you get booked everywhere.
Everywhere.
Great success.
You're about to be, I think you'll be signed to, you know,
and have big, huge, wonderful successes.
You have been signed.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
It's in, you know, it's in the works.
Well, I'll edit that bit out.
No, I mean, you can say it.
Put the pressure on them.
Big show business people are circling.
Yeah, they are. Like sharks. Yes. Put the pressure on them. Big show business people are circling. Yeah, they are.
Like sharks.
Yes.
In the small show business, people wouldn't have you.
And you slogged away and you did every gig in the world.
Yeah.
And now big things are happening.
And I would like to know.
I didn't know that this was the dick sucking podcast.
This is really nice, man.
I don't know about dick sucking.
At the start of it, I was saying Craig wouldn't book you for the line-up room.
That's one of the most embarrassing things anyone's ever had happen to me.
It's humiliating, isn't it?
I know people who can get booked for that gig who, honestly, I wouldn't trust.
I wouldn't let them in my home.
I wouldn't trust them to polish a shoe without destroying it.
But somehow you managed to make that.
And I think part of it was the way you used to hold microphones,
gangster rap style, which I can never forget.
People from Adelaide hold onto that.
You know, I've started holding the microphone like that sometimes.
Have you?
Yeah, I think you may be too far ahead of your time.
Yes.
But what did you learn?
Because in this podcast, we wish to be established quickly.
Yeah.
We don't want to make the mistakes you made.
We don't want to pay our dues.
No.
We want our dues to be paid for us.
We want to accelerate.
Yeah.
As promptly as possible through those early stages to get where you are now yes the
success and boat ownership is assured right assured people have virtually it's inevitable
they have their little podcasts yeah you know and they're slogging away yeah 60 listeners yeah
that's me i have 54 listeners mate four years I refuse to do it. I just won't.
I just don't have time.
I've got a family.
Yes.
Let's use those skills.
I have a family of listeners.
Okay, I'm sorry.
No, I don't even.
My listeners aren't my family.
They're a club and they're not even allowed on the boat in this podcast.
Now, what would you say were your biggest mistakes?
Mistakes.
Look, maybe a mistake, but it's interesting, isn't it?
Because when you look back at your life, it's very difficult to cast something that you've done as a mistake
because whatever it is that led you to where you are now.
And we're all kind of optimists in a way because we don't kill ourselves.
So anything that you do...
Some people are just very bad at committing suicide, but go on.
It's like, you know, okay, so something that I did that maybe hindered me in some regards was moving to London at 23.
Fascinating.
Two years into doing comedy.
Really?
Because that is the advice that I would have given to my younger self.
Is move.
Get out of this country.
So what happened to you in London?
I'm fascinated.
It led to me having to get over my shit, which is bitterness, jealousy,
all these looking around at other people going, why are they ahead of me? I started before all of that stuff. Did you get over my shit, which is bitterness, jealousy, all these looking around at other people going,
why are they ahead of me?
I started before all of that stuff.
Did you get over that in London?
I got over that after London because I went to London
because I was in Melbourne for two years.
I started in Adelaide and then I was in Melbourne for two years
and then I moved to London.
I'm like two and a half years into comedy.
I think I'm going to slot in at some sort of level.
Incorrect.
I'm back at the bottom.
Well, that's also very unusual because usually you've got
to go away to come back.
Yeah.
It's the comeback from London that's the big power.
Sarah Kendall can't get an ABC show in this country.
She'll get one in fucking London.
When I went to London, I wasn't at any sort of level to impress people.
I was still just a loser open mic-er.
Yes.
So I went there, did two years there, was just starting to get in a few clubs.
My visa ended, so I came back to Melbourne.
Now I'm four and a half years in a comedy
and there's all these people who started
while I was gone that are very
good. Name names. You're Sam
Taunton's, you're Daniel Walker's.
People on the cover of magazines and on the project now.
Who are doing really well and I'm looking at these
guys going, who took my fucking spot in the
line? Who took my ticket at the deli counter?
Where's my smiley fritz?
To use a hometown reference.
Oh, mate.
Yes, and luckily, almost all of our listeners are local.
I haven't managed to break out.
What do they call it over there in Victoria?
Devon, I believe.
Or Log.
You know, when I moved to Melbourne,
I got a thing of fritz and some cheese
and some sweet chilli sauce and bread,
and it was called a flavoured knob. That's what it called it's processed you know it's a beautiful it's great
that you still remember the poverty oh do i even to this day i remember i was having um okay this
is my only poverty story okay i had no money yes i don't think i have this story well i had no money
but i had a prerequisite i had gigs at the sit-down gigs at the sit-down. I had gigs at the sit-down, and you get to stay in their accommodation. Yes.
And I had my flights all booked, but I had no money.
I took the coins from the back of the couch and in a jar.
They had like little change jar.
It was like $30 in change.
I took all of it, and that's all I lived on for three days.
And the worst, I just only had two minute noodles
me going
and then towards the end
but I was having,
I came up with something
beautiful out of
the desperation.
I cooked one set
of the noodles
because I had the cooked noodles
and the dry noodles.
Yeah.
Cooked noodles
then crack up
the dry noodles on top
add a little texture.
Oh yeah, nice.
A little crouton style.
Trick yourself into thinking
that you're having
a two,
two tone meal. Yeah, not just one little crouton style. Trick yourself into thinking that you're having a two-tone meal.
Yeah, not just one shameful, shameful texture.
So I think bitterness does hold people back.
Yeah.
That's a very good point.
But it forced me to, like, the first time you see people who started after you,
you know, in your mind pass you.
Like, obviously now I understand's no one's passing anyone
we're all on our own trajectories and that's what that forced me to learn is it's like someone
getting an opportunity that you i didn't even want the opportunities that i thought i wanted
but you just see the most of when you start comedy you know and you see someone and you're like well
that's the most obvious place that i might go so i guess i want that and then someone else gets it
and you're like why didn't i get that and it's like because you one we're never gonna get it because that's
not the kind of comic that you are yeah you didn't even want it you just thought you wanted it because
you didn't know what you wanted but you know what i think might have been a weird generational thing
and of the shifting sands is that some of those things that seemed like they were gettable
became ungettable with time with time. Interesting.
Or not wantable, right?
Like, you pitch your...
Like, I know people who have gone,
my goal in life was to have a Conan O'Brien set.
That show doesn't exist anymore.
Or people who have gone, you know, a gala spot.
When we started, 10 years ago, a gala spot, that was it.
Now, even if you get a gala spot, it's on ABC2 on a Wednesday at 10pm on a medium that doesn't exist.
You're better off doing a little dance.
Yeah, we used to stay up at night to watch that.
You know, that was the thing.
You used to advertise it.
It was a call-a-thon, the phones, everything.
And now, who cares?
Now I wouldn't even give my own money to Oxfam because they are anti-Semitic. Are they? Well, they're anti-Israel.
Well, I've got to go and give all my money. Alright, not having bitterness.
Beyond that, I feel, I mean you can be not bitter and turn up. That frees you
up to not do the things you shouldn't be doing. Yeah. But in terms of doing the things you should be
doing. Yeah. I mean you, gig pig was a term coined
I think for you. Peter Jones.
A couple others. Peter Jones, Luca
Blake. Blake Freeman.
Any other gig pigs around Melbourne?
Yeah, I mean, those are
Zach Dyer, Andrew Portelli.
Yes.
Yeah.
There's a lot of people that do a lot of gigs.
A sea of men of a certain age
who do every gig.
I can't do it.
I get too tired.
Oh, you know, Prue Blake.
Prue Blake does a lot of gigs.
I'm trying to think of the people who have been around for ages
who do lots of gigs.
Raywin Pickering does quite a few.
Oh, Matthew Vasquez.
Noted woman, Matthew Vasquez.
Matthew Vasquez.
Noted brown ethnic man.
Well, there's room for at least two brown men in Melbourne
Doing a lot of gigs
But yeah, bitterness doesn't necessarily
Getting over that means that you're not going for the things you don't want
But it also allows you to focus on doing the things
Maybe not knowing what you want in the future
But certainly focus on what makes you happy right now
Going, okay,
it doesn't matter that other people are getting things, you know,
that I'm not getting or that they have more money than me or get bigger gigs
than me or whatever. I still get to do comedy every night.
So why don't I just focus on that? And in focusing on that,
you get better at that and getting better at something. I mean, I'm.
Well, your show, your hour long show that I'm going to say broke you.
Yeah.
And then has had the first big online consolidation of your...
Because it's done very well, your special.
Yeah.
Which we'll put a link to in the...
22,000 views.
22,000 views!
Yeah, it's good, isn't it?
I'm so bitter.
Very exciting.
I'm so bitter that I'm not getting 22,000 views.
I sup on it.
Well,
as well you should.
Ah,
f*** you.
No,
this is,
it's beautiful.
But that,
I mean,
that,
that's a very bitty,
tight show
of things
that really break,
I mean,
you can see the fives
in that.
Thanks, man.
Not in a,
like,
not in a,
like,
series of fives together.
Good.
Because so many shows, it's like, here's 15 good here, here's 15 good at the end.
I'll have a little quiet bit in the middle or a song or something.
And then we'll pull it together.
But it's a tight show.
And that was, I don't know if you want me, I'll cut this out if you want.
No, tell them.
You told me about someone who was thinking of giving you an opportunity, but wanted to
see a follow-up show to that.
Yeah.
Who said, well, we just want to check that that first show wasn't a fluke.
Yeah.
But that show screams, this obviously is not a fluke.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it's not like you're just getting by on charm.
Of course.
There's a good punchline every nine and a half seconds.
Sure.
That's what you need when you're doing a fire in a horrible room.
Yeah, because it's all from clubs.
Yes.
And that's why I do all the gigs, because you've got to do the gigs to make sure the shit works on its own.
You know?
I agree with that.
Otherwise it's all just fucking a house of cards.
Well, I don't.
Yes.
I've gone the house of cards.
Yeah, but you're a completely different thing.
You got bored of saying something after you said it twice.
Yeah, that was a big problem.
I mean, you're a completely different fucking animal, man. Well, here's the problem that I'm having.
If we're all going our separate ways, and that's the advice for the boat podcast.
Yes.
I don't, I'm not bored of it.
I'm enjoying making it.
Good.
That's the important thing.
What I want even more than to make it is to have the boat.
And I will really make it subservient.
You know, I understand it's hard to draw a parallel.
Very hard to go and do
15 five-minute spots every
single week, especially in Melbourne.
Not getting paid. Small audiences.
Cunts aplenty.
On the bill and in the crowd.
I don't mind putting myself
through that level of suffering.
And what I'd like to brainstorm and get
your help with is what is the hard work, what is the suffering that I have to do in the
podcast realm in the shoot it up to the next that's difficult isn't it because
yeah in in the that's a great question and you've brought around this point
very well thank you I'm so good at what I do because yeah I mean that's the
beautiful thing about comedy is there is an avenue to practice it
Yes
All the time constantly
You know
Maybe you should try and put out
The volume of these podcasts
Well
How many do you do?
One a week?
I do one a week
What if you did two a week?
You know
What if you
Because they're quite short
They're quite short aren't they?
You know who's good?
Yeah who's good?
David Boyle
I don't know anything about David Boyle
David Boyle is a Melbourne comedian,
and he did a podcast called I'm Quitting Alcohol,
and each episode is like five minutes,
and he does it every single day.
Right.
And it's about him quitting drinking,
but they're so bingeable because it's every day,
and it's spam content.
It's the sort of way that he obviously likes to go around things.
What's his name?
David Boyle?
David Boyle. Yeah, he moved to India around things. What's his name? David Boyle?
Yeah, he moved to India, I think, with his wife, partner.
Something like that.
Well, that is what gets you.
B-O-Y-L-E.
David Boyle, architect?
No.
I wouldn't have thought so.
I am David.
I'm quitting alcohol.
I'm quitting alcohol.
I will look that up.
I think it's called that or quitting drinking or something like that.
The family is a big part of it.
These episodes are short.
Yeah.
Not because I don't want to.
I don't have time.
I literally.
Yeah.
Precious time.
I've quit my job.
Yes.
I have slightly more time now.
This is very good, James.
I'm also super poor.
Yeah.
So there's less time because I have to.
I just got a board game writing thing.
I'm going to write a board game for Smoke Lovers.
Oh, that's awesome.
I won't talk about any of that.
What's a good jumping off point?
Okay.
So here, volume. Volume. Because volume't talk about any of that. What's a good... Okay, but so here, volume.
Volume.
Because volume, it's for me, stage time.
Yes.
That's how the act gets tightened.
And writing every day.
That's what London taught me.
If you're going to do the gigs, you've got to write in the morning.
Or else you're saying the same shit you said last night.
This is what I do.
Everyone says in the evening you've got to do a lot of gigs.
Yep.
But if you're doing a lot of gigs, you've got to maybe not write,
but at least think about what you've got to say.
Think about comedy.
Well, you know what?
I can at least add more thinking time.
We're currently doing two podcasts.
We're doing the Patreon-only podcast,
which was a big move to start that immediately.
Yeah.
15 Patreons now.
That's good.
That's very good.
It's not enough.
Go to the Patreon now and sign up.
We're getting over $100 a month.
That's good
When that comes up
I might be able to buy
A new hat
Because I have my old
Captain's hat to somebody
For the children?
I actually have
I bought my daughter
A captain's hat
Very good
Do you have two children?
Two children, yeah
It's so hard, man
No, it's good
But so here
I think effort, time
Wonderful
Yeah, for volume
Because
So I do my podcast Sitting Under Under a Tree, by the way.
Four years, 54 listeners, no more, no less.
We'll be popping a link on this.
But what I do is I've noticed every time I try and make it more marketable
and put work into it and go, maybe this is the angle,
it becomes less of what it originally was that was so fun to me,
which is just me for half an hour talking about my week
and figuring out how I feel about it.
And that's low effort.
I do zero editing.
I put it,
I put a theme song at the start
and then I throw it up.
And if you could figure out a way to do,
I'm not even going to say two,
what if you did three a week
and there were like 15 minute little shots
of James McCann
and there was just like short,
no editing.
So if you figured out a format. I struggled. I mean, I said I wouldn't edit this. I will edit this. Of course McCann. And there was just like short, no editing. So if you figured out a format.
I struggled.
I mean, I said I wouldn't edit this.
I will edit this.
Of course you will.
We've been here 20 minutes.
These 15 minute ones that I do.
Honestly, eight hours.
Oh my God.
Eight hours to do 15 minutes.
That is horrific.
But I think this try, just put more effort in.
Yeah.
That's become a, you know, like Rock Lee in Naruto become a genius of hard work.
Yeah.
I love that. A genius of hard work. Yeah. I love that.
A genius of hard work.
What I think people, when they go out to see a live show and go and, you know, engage with the arts, people want to see something amazing.
Yes.
And people want to see someone who has mastered their craft over, like they've dedicated their life to it.
And then they want to see that person engaging with their craft and just enjoying it and having fun.
Like, what's the guy Escher?
He did line cut yeah the f**king he did those lino cut thing the drawing man he did those lino cut things yeah for f**king 50 years yes and he discovered his style that he's known
for when he was like in his 60s like 50 years beautiful even then after 50 years he couldn't
get perspective right there are staircases going nowhere, hands drawing each other.
It doesn't make any f***ing sense.
You're being obtuse.
It's very funny.
He's probably.
I will abandon dilettantism.
I will subject all the disparate forces of my life to the catamaran plan podcast.
Yeah.
Everything will be made subservient.
It is. We are in a state of total war. It's just become okay to bomb civilians. grand plan podcast. Yeah. Everything will be made subservient.
It's total war. We are in a state of total war.
It's just become okay to bomb civilians.
We're doing everything we can to make this podcast.
There are no civilians.
Well, of course, if you're working in a munitions factory,
you have to die.
If it's total war, all citizens are military personnel.
Do you know Anscombe?
Ah, wonderful philosopher.
Great essay on total war
and why it wasn't right to drop the bomb on Japan.
But I'd like to say, Aidan Taco-Jones,
so good to have had you here.
I will put links to all of your wonderful work in the bio.
Thank you, brother.
God bless you. God keep you.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode
of the James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan.
If you enjoyed it, please subscribe to the Patreon,
where you can listen to more episodes just like this one,
but with less effort put in.
I love you.
I miss you.
I need you.
I want you.
Ow!
I affirm that I will focus.
I will give up on bitterness and dilettantism.
And I will focus on my one goal.
My one aim.
The catamaran.
And the plans therein to realise the catamaran.
I am a force.
I'm on the tracks.
I'm a train on the tracks.
I'm a beam of light moving in a straight line. I'm on the tracks. I'm a train on the tracks. I'm a beam of light moving in a
straight line. I am the
future. I am unidirectional.
I am the James
Donald Full Spookhand Catamaran
plan. Catamaran hole.
Thank you to Aiden Taco
Jones. Thank you to you.
Thank you to Aiden Taco Jones.
Thank you to you. Thank you to Aiden Taco Jones.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Aiden Taco John's. Thank you to you. Thank you to Aiden Taco John's. Thank you.
You to.
You to.
You.
You.
You.
You.
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