The James Donald Forbes McCann Catamaran Plan - Your Willing Heart Will Help You Achieve the Impossible - SMUDGEHAWKS

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the James Donald Forsbacan Catamaran Plan Podcast. Would you gentlemen like to introduce yourselves to the listeners? Hello. Hello. This is, uh, yep. I am Patrick Tabari. Fellow comedian. And I'm Dylan Sullivan, fellow comedian. Patrick and Dylan, we're out and about in the town. It's late at night on a Sunday. That's right. And I'm finding it hard to find time to do the podcast during the week because of the young family. And these gentlemen were off to do a podcast and I said, can I come and do my podcast?

And so we're doing. I'm recording on my phone. Usually, I'm sure it looks a lot better. And that podcast, Patrick, is called? SmudgeHawks. SmudgeHawks. One word. one word one word capital s capital h love it yes and dylan you had a set tonight in a great set i'm trying to talk you into recording that and releasing it yes i had a really fun set and then i brought you up and i you know and you had a great set and then i I was a little worried about how I introduced you.

I couldn't say that I remembered, but I'd love to hear about it. Okay. I said, I don't remember a thing that happens. This next guy is great. This next guy is great and so funny. Give it up for James McCann. What a fine introduction. No problems with that introduction at all.

I thought you were a man of like you wanted like five credits. No, I like close personal friend. I like having no credits whatsoever. Me too. And I try and give people as few credits as I can get away with. Sometimes opening up for somebody, they'll say, give this guy some credits.

I think that America, you need that. Credentialism is very important to your people. But that feels so anti-comedy, doesn't it? You want like a stranger guy that's like, oh, this is my friend. This is my piece of but i don't know like a prove yourself situation well a baseline it's a baseline of like and especially if you did well or had a good set then it's like oh you're gonna love my buddy

people always say that you got to talk people down yes don't don't build them up too much right but uh i like to build them up a lot do you like like to be built up? So they have a bad set after me. No, no. I know that it works. So I want other people to fail so that I may succeed. I'm trying to be a nicer person. Right. I'm getting in trouble at the moment because people don't think I'm a nice. Let's start again.

All right. Hello and welcome to this episode. I'm going to have to bleep. I do this thing. I'll start here. I do this thing on the podcast where there's no swearing. Now, I can bleep you out but I only do that

to get a broader listenership so that I can have money for a boat right yes and it just it's exhausting I swear all the time

and I have to bleep myself out but I'm trying to get the biggest possible listenership to get the most money possible to buy a boat as close as I can yes the ultimate American dream

yes we've tried this Patrick has a hard time not cussing It's impossible But for you I will do it You know I can edit it out It's fine

I'll try my hardest I really appreciate that Because it's a bother I try and be creative With how I edit things out Little noises Have you ever thought of a boat Maybe without a row

A boat without a row Yeah Drop a couple bombs And uh You know His reference is It's over mine What's a row a boat without a row yeah drop a couple bombs and uh you know this reference is it's over mine what's a row a row like rowing a boat i thought that's what you just wanted a rowboat oh no i want a big boat five hundred thousand dollar catamaran wow yacht yeah yes well yacht has one hull gee the cat cat's very i did not have a cat allergy before i came in here yeah

but yeah that's pretty cat i asked you several times you kept saying do you have an allergy to cats i kept saying no and you do yes how are you feeling i feel okay i'm holding i feel like i've got hand foot and mouth disease i feel prickly all over yeah yeah it's like thrush it really just it really is up on the back of your throat what really is. I fell in love with a cat only once in my life, I think. When I first moved to Austin, I was staying at some people's house and they had two wonderful cats.

I felt so sad for not hanging out with the cats. My wife is very allergic. So we'd have to spend so much money to get a non-allergenic cat. Do you want to introduce yourselves? Now's a good place to actually start the podcast. Yeah, absolutely.

Hi, I'm Dylan Sullivan. Star sign? I'm an Aries. Oh, yeah. He's God of War. God of War. The Ram. And Pat, who are you?

Patrick Tappari. I am a Leo. A lion. A lion. Heart of a lion. In August, summer birthday. Jaws of a lion. Mane of a lion. I don't know anything a lion. In August, summer birthday. Jaws of a lion. Mane of a lion.

I don't know anything about Leo. I'm a Pisces. You're Pisces. Two fish. One fish. Blue fish. Hey, this is a podcast about me trying to buy a boat. It's late at night.

Yes. We finished doing gigs. Did you get up at the sunset? I did not get up tonight. You just went to hang out? Just went to hang out. Show and face. Yes. I've heard them call that. Yeah. went to hang out? Just went to hang out. Show and face. Yes.

I've heard them call that. Yeah. Patrick's a socialite. I'm a socialite. Boy, I find that to be the hardest thing in a comedy scene. It's the worst. Yeah, I'm not good at it because I don't like people. It's impossible.

Well, especially at open mic things. Everybody sucks and everyone's there because they think they're good, but just objectively, everybody sucks. Yeah. And so everyone's been snipp they think they're good but just objectively everybody sucks yeah and so everyone's been snippy and jostling for position and going out of their way

to say that people were good when they weren't and people were bad behind their back I don't do well in that milieu the people who didn't watch your set

tell you great set it was heartbreaking when I was once walking in a different entrance to the mothership and some of the door guy stopped me and he said, hey, man, great set. I haven't done it yet.

Oh, no, this must be happening all the time. I think I know who that was. Who was that? Diamond. I can't say. Let's keep it all positive. And you did have a set. It was a fine set.

Yeah, fine set. And you have a podcast. I watched some of it. I was thinking about my own set. I was standing out back eating. What were you eating? Some of Marnie was thinking about my own set. I was standing out back, eating. What were you eating? Some of Marnie's PF Changs. Oh.

And I got a – she wasn't super happy to let me have her PF Changs, but I did. And I got a fortune. I'd like to discuss here on the James Dolph Fools with Ken Catamaran plan. We're recording at night because it's easier than doing it with a week with the family. Please tell us.

Your willing heart will help you achieve the impossible. Wow. First of all, I'd like to say thank you for having me here in this home to do the podcast. So great to be in the home. I need to do a podcast and I couldn't do it during the week. And I think what I'd like to discuss is our willing hearts and how that will help us to achieve the impossible.

Buying a boat. Well, yes. But also so many other things that the heart wills. Yes. And I thought, I've got my boat buying thing. What do your hearts will? You said earlier that you wanted to be a god. Yes, I did.

And I think it's possible if I really flush this hour out, this first special. You want to be good at comedy and have a lot of money? Oh, yeah. That would be nice, too. Love it. Let's be honest about what we want. You just want the special. You want one hour special.

I want a one hour. I want the first hour to be great. I want a great hour. And it will be. What do you want? I also want to be a touring comedian, successful, but I would love to buy a home in the mountains. Are you also a Denverian?

No, Massachusetts. Oh, that's right, Boston. We spoke about that. New Hampshire. Not heaps of mountains near there. Well, New Hampshire and Maine. Those are the mountains. I would visit there.

That was my one vacationing place where the family would go. You know, mountains are very scary in Australia because they're covered in foliage and they catch on fire every year. So we're all a little nervous about that, but I do, I want to live in the hills personally, the Adelaide Hills. It's one of my dreams. And do the

hills have foliage? Oh, hills have so much foliage they're always going up in flames and people go, you'd be mad to live up in the Adelaide Hills. It's nonsense. Unless you live much foliage. They're always going up in flames and people go, you'd be mad to live up in Adelaide Hills. It's nonsense. Unless you live in Mount... When the fires go up, as they do, people take shelter in the cinema at, which you call them the movie house.

Yes, we do. The talkie chamber. And what you do is you flee into this big movie in the biggest hills down, movie theater, and people bring their animals, you know, their favorite couple of animals that they didn't want to have die in the fire. Do you have concrete movie theaters or movie houses? Movie, the picture.

Picture houses. Cinema. Cinema. Do you not say cinema here? Yeah, we do when it's the Oscar seasons around. Oh, yes. When it's all those. An evening at the cinema. I would like to's the Oscar seasons around. Oh, yes. When it's all those. An evening at the cinema.

I would like to win an Oscar. Okay. Let's all look at what the heart desires. I'd like rich people in suits to tell me I've done a good job, and I'd like to have that opportunity to thank some people. Wouldn't it be nice? Doesn't it feel more meaningful to thank them that way? A mission of the heart.

Who's the first person you'd thank? My agent? Yes. Ethan! You're doing a great job! Ethan Hawke. Well, no, we were discussing Ethan Hawke before. Much to say about Ethan Hawke. I brought a weird energy. I'm sorry.

I'll bring it to a full. The willing heart will help you achieve the impossible. You know, we can think historically of many people whose willing hearts have helped Hitler. Yes. And no one thought they could do it. And who's the man in the prison in South Africa? Something with an M. Nelson Mandela.

Nelson Mandela. No one said that you could destroy the economy of that country. And they found a way with his willing heart of rolling blackouts and all sorts of unpleasantness there, as well as some good things. Yeah. So who is your favourite person who's used a willing heart to achieve the impossible? Pat?

My first thought was Robin Williams. I don't know why. That's – I don't really – Yes. Laughter is, in some cases impossible also suicide jeffrey epstein might be someone who would have thought that was possible only a true do you think he did it because he just loved the game or they had something on him and i mean truly what inspires that type of act that type of lifestyle you know financiering financiering blackmailing he was pretty much pretty much taking over the world

yeah i think some influential people must have helped him but good people too good people good people tiger woods tiger woods. Thrown out of sport. Love pussy too much. Car crash. Car crash. Car crash marriage. Car crash actual. Came back.

And he's back. And he's won great tournament. Exactly. Congratulations, Tiger. I'm thinking. I used to learn about Tiger Woods when I was growing up. We had a class called Assets where we would learn how to be a good person and every class yes and every class we would talk about tiger woods as a good person yes as the exemplary person that we should uh as we should try to model

ourselves after it's haunting how many wonderful black men they tear down with their lives in this country these whores mm-. The whores is fine. It's just S, F, and C. Okay, got it. We bleep out the swears so that children can listen. And I don't mind children hearing whores. I think

that's fine. Some of our whore listeners might have a problem with it, but I, you know, God bless them and God help them. Tiger Woods. of our whore listeners might have a problem with it, but I, you know, God bless him and God help him. Right. Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods. OJ Simpson, the great black man torn down by America.

Mm-hmm. Cosby. Yes. Kanye at the moment. Mm-hmm. Poor sweet Kanye. Michael. Jackson.

Mike Tyson. Yes. Mm-hmm. All he did was rape All he did to be brought down Rape and bite Great man Otherwise What a fighter

Love him Would love to have him on the show Yes Have I come in with a weird energy? No, no Who else? Willing heart I think this is the key

Mike Tyson Willing heart I may be a is the key to a great podcast. Willing heart. I may be a little behind here, but what is a willing heart? What is a willing heart? A heart that wills, I guess. I mean, I don't think they're talking about someone who's got a heart clogged up with cholesterol that's beating despite itself. I think they mean someone with a yearning soul to break out of.

We were talking earlier in a bar and just after the gig and I was saying, oh, a life of mediocrity. But that seems quite hard. You can't just set out to have an okay career. You have to set out to be great and settle for the mediocrity you get. But it's very hard to shoot for the middle. If you shoot for the middle, you'll fall at the bottom, I believe. Do you know what I'm saying?

So to have a really vaulting ambition, willing heart, ability to suffer, all the things that you don't want to do, Austin in the summer, that takes a willing heart To get through that Yeah I think a willing heart is Like heartless Like you kind of have to be heartless Like this a lot Well you have to cut throat

You have to leave people behind There's a dark side to the willing heart Because I think You guys are thinking positive Like I have ambition i'm really trying to think positive dreams but i think a lot of people are just don't you find that willing heart i find that really sad and i find that it catches up with people eventually right i leave my family behind i divorce my wife i don't see my kids oh because i have a willing heart immigrants are terrible people

you know because they've left their communities. I say this as an immigrant. And you do a violence to people you know and love and the role you have in their lives by going to a new place for your own personal financial thing. No, I think, look, there must be a way, and I believe there is a way to will with the heart and not cause chaos and damage. But the lesson we take from American capitalism, as best I understand it, is you go and do your bad thing over there,

your venture capital, your Walmart, your whatever, and then you take the profits and it's like, I'll build a nice little garden, a little gated thing over here. I'm going to turn the bad thing I do into a small good thing. But the bad you do is so much vaster than the private good that you get. I think we must order ourselves such that our willing heart improves everything around us and that would be the impossible turning such a bad atrocity into a beautiful little garden the impossible

well that may be the wisdom that pf chains is bringing us and we'll get to achieving the impossible again. But this thing of, I'm really intrigued that you've brought this up, of the, that your ambition is bad for the people around you. I mean, yeah. Everybody's got skeletons in their closet. Tell us about yours. All these men.

All the men, though, that we listed that were torn down by whores, they had ambition. Well, I don't think O. OJ Simpson decapitating that woman is quite in that ballpark. And some of those people needed to go down, and some of them potentially good people, unfairly turned on by a business. No, I have to think that we can do great things and have it be good for everybody, you know, and not hurt people along the way.

I struggle because I'm definitely hurting people by being in America. How so? Well, my family has to be here. This is a great country in so many ways, but it's hard to go to a new place and drag people there. I have friends and family that I've left behind who miss me very much and write to me and the time difference and I actually don't want to talk to some of them.

And even then, over the phone, what can you really do to build? I mean, you can... I mean, someone who makes a... What are we doing with... How important is our free time for other people? That's an important question. How important is our free time? You people? That's an important question. How important is our free time?

You know, you give yourself to work. You say, I'm working 12-hour days, and then you're not having time for community and love and compassion, your children, your wife, these sorts of things. Is it possible to work hard and have an ordered family life? If so, how? I don't know if it's possible. I don't think it's possible.

Yeah. No, it is. There are very few examples of people doing it well publicly. Who is it? Someone who did it well. My goodness. Trump. Some of those marriages didn't last, but it feels like he genuinely, on Trump,

loves his children, seems to be there for his children. Children have turned out okay. Well, at least they love him. They have dignified, strange lives. But they're not drug addicts or things of that nature. So that's good. They haven't killed any hookers. That we know of yet.

And that's a big one. But Hunter didn't kill a prostitute, did he? I don't think so. He's just having too good a time. I think some of the Kennedys killed hookers, right? One of the Kennedys killed a hooker. of yes and that's a big one but hunter didn't kill a prostitute did he i don't think so he's just having too good a time i think some of the kennedys killed hookers right one of the kennedys killed a hooker i don't think she was a hooker i think you're thinking of ted in the automobile was it his wife no she was just a lady at a party okay and then he didn't kill her he uh what is a lady at such a celebrity i just clarified before i think there's good people at all these parties as well.

He crashed his car and then I think swam to safety and not until the morning let people know that it happened. Right, that's what happened. And she drowned.

Now, what are you looking up? Share, share. Well, I'm looking up because I think it's interesting when you're saying balancing a family versus doing your work and being there for community.

And a lot of studies say that the happiness index caps out around $500,000, half a million dollars a year. I'd put $80,000 a year, but half a million. Yeah, it starts there. It starts at $80,000. That's the bare one. Yeah. So I think if you're working between $80,000 and $500,000 a year,

I think you're in a good place where you can both accomplish what you want and be there for your community. You know, Catholic social teaching talks about earning what is relevant to your station. That, you know, you have three children. Well, you need to go out and earn enough money for three children. You don't have to earn more money than that.

And that's the money you should give away. So break even. You should basically be breaking even. You should have enough for your own provisions and so people won't suffer that you're a bad steward, but you really shouldn't try and have more money than that. But the Protestant thing is like show how much God loves you by having heaps of scratch.

You know what I mean? Sure. And that's very – I mean, this country really goes all in on that. It's good to be rich here. It's better to be rich. I've seen the poor. Where do you stand morally on, you know, objectivism versus collectivism? I was an objectivist for years.

Really? I was a big Ayn Randian guy. Through university, it felt like without having to believe in God, the most strange and provocative thing you could get into. You could be a Nietzschean and people just go, interesting, deep, strange. Ah, context. You say, I love Ayn Rand,

and people look at you like you're a massive spastic. And were you? Oh, yeah. I was wrong. But I love Ayn Rand. Did you ever read Ayn Rand? I read The Fountainhead. It's a gripping read.

Yes. There's nothing I want to do more than blow up public housing and make a speech so that everybody agrees that that was the right thing to do. It was. And also there is the rape. But she's obviously very keen. There's a rape. Complicated.

It's a more very hot but he rapes her and that's not good. It's one of the many problems with objectivism is that there's room in it for a hot rape. But not like a random stranger. No, it's a woman that he's been spending some time with. Who's attracted to him? She's very keen, but, you know.

He made his move, he pulled the trigger too soon. And he saw what he wanted. He wanted him to do that. She was unable to say, it's, man, what a great book. It must be said. I went on, I read, I think it was Anthem, her first book. Oh, okay. First, which is very sort of 1984-y.

Okay. But from an objectivist point of view. And I enjoyed that a great deal. And then I read, no, Atlas Shrugged. And here's a weird- You read all of Atlas Shrugged? I got through all of it. I was loved, ripped through Atlas Shrugged.

Wow. But I was going through this weird time in my life where I was I don't know 21, 22 at university and I was just really getting off on reading

big books you know that was my I was comedy wasn't going well I'd just started I was doing an arts degree I was getting some money

from the government to study not a lot but you know I was living with my parents or living in meager share house arrangements and so there was a lot of time and i'd quit video games so i just i read war and peace anna karenina uh infinite jest and so after those boy the atlas shrugged is an absolute

romp really oh you ripped through it wow and it's very strange her philosophy. I don't know how across Ayn Rand you are. None whatsoever. Her whole thing, sort of a perversion of Aristotelian ethics that objectivism, the world is objective. Things are as they are. A equals A is a big thing for her. So don't get caught up in simulacra and your own nonsense. Just like what you want is good. Go and get what you want.

And you can know who you are, and you are governed by reason, all these things that I – Finding purpose through your work is a big – That's hugely important. But also that your work should be just and meaningful in some way, that there are some forms of work that are despicable, but that you're sort of, this is the mystic component, that you're born to do something.

And all the good characters in her books are really born to be a certain, he's born to be an architect. If I'm loud, is that annoying? No. Great. He's born to be an architect and he's going to be a certain kind of architect and other people who are born to be architects who aren't being an architect in the right

way, they're scum and they are goo people who are being torn down. But they've abandoned themselves. They've abandoned their own path. So beautiful. They didn't have a willing heart. I love that you've got that. I don't usually have that.

That one wasn't the clap one. What did you push? A horn, a bell, cricket, and... Where's the... That's the record scratch. This is the record scratch? Yeah, this is the record scratch. All right, that'll be necessary for what I'm about to say.

Yes. Here's the big problem with Ayn Rand's philosophy. Is that there are some things that we have to do. Did that work? Was that funny? Great. So in Atlas Shrugged, and this is spoiling it, so skip ahead. Where's the da-doomch?

Blue, dark blue. Da-doomch and and regular What is that one? It's like a fairy wand Oh, I don't Yeah, I know, you don't indulge We don't Dump it Hold on, hold on

Yeah, yeah It's because it's going to escape me I'm not going to get it right The plot of Atlas Shrugged is great people are disappearing The world is held byoft by all these... Who's the guy in the fountainhead? Who's the main guy? Roach.

Roach. No, Rourke. Rourke. He's... Howard Rourke. It's a different kind of society, a little bit, in Atlas Shrugged, where it's held aloft by like these 100... America survives because there's like 100 great people

who are true to themselves and whereas in the fountainhead they're true to themselves about sort of boring things no exciting things like architecture or journalism here it's like she runs trains you know she and there's another guy who's like i love making the steel for the train tracks that's my thing is making steel and another guy is like uh my big thing, you know, it's just like pedantic, just like industrial types. The man who makes coal, the man who makes weapons. And they start disappearing. And then the economy starts to fall apart.

And she goes to a magical land hidden in the mountains with the man whose job in his life is to be a pilot. And she goes to this community and it's all the people who have abandoned America because America wasn't treating them right and they've walked away. They're men going their own way and women going their own way

and they're all here in this little kingdom and they're just waiting for America to have all the mediocrities and people who lie to themselves collapse and crumble. And there's the man who loves making ice cream. They have the perfect society because everyone's being true to themselves. It's heaven. And then one of the people there is the mother.

And she's a very good, she's a perfect mother to her two children. And you go, hold on. That's not all right. You can't have a society of 100 people and only one of them should be a mother because that's what she was born to do is be a mum. This is nonsense. Everybody, women need to be mothers. Men need to be for the race, for the human race.

To make the pilots and the steel men. My God. I mean, what if one in a million people is a good educator, just no one will go to school? This is how she's very different. I mean, capitalism would say it's your own material self-interest and you don't want to go and work at the beer shop, but we need beer.

And so you can have the 10 silver coins spending a time you didn't want to spend there at the beer manufacturing establishment. But she goes, if you have a willing heart and you achieve what would seem impossible to other people but is only possible for you, then you'll be happy and the world will be happy and everybody should live like this. And all virtue is subservient to your desire.

The virtue of selfishness. Yes, she goes on and on about the virtue of selfishness it's the yes she goes on and on about the virtue of selfish selfishness it's a very virtuous rape in but selfishness she interprets as different than most people interpret selfishness yes well she's she has a lofty idea of the self she has uh she doesn't really believe in human nature being harmed or fallen in some way i think this is it i mean people can be harmed and fallen and do the wrong thing but it's because they have the wrong ideas or they're somehow weak but like if you really know who you are and you really go about doing it mm-hmm it's and this

is very compelling when you're a teenager because you think there I am the great man it was compelling to me eight months ago yeah I mean also I had nothing against Fountainhead right Fountainhead Yeah it's all he talked about It's a great read I started reading it again recently I should read it

I gave it to a friend So I didn't get to keep reading it It's great So what was kind of the point Of the woman who was the mother Is that every woman Should be a mother I think she's making the point

That even Less Even Things that are less extravagant than discovering a new way to make a metal. Something as ordinary as being a mother. That should just be done by someone who's called to it.

And that this isn't, you know, someone like, he loves scrubbing toilets. The way he scrubs those toilets. He should only be a toilet scrubber and he's going to find new exciting ways of scrubbing and he he will aspire to be the best he can either the best he can and it doesn't matter if he's the best in the world he probably will be because with his attitude because he's following

himself he's following himself but that you've got to become the best person you can be and it is electric except that i don't think it maps well onto life right we should have ambition and we do live it i'm sorry i'm talking a lot it's my podcast but still i would like to get your input on as well it's late i've had this coffee that was a mistake but um is this why you said you wanted to be a god you're're gripped by Rand fever. No. No, you should. It's exciting. I had a therapist who told me years ago that I should read The Virtue of Selflessness because she would listen to my problems and she thought that it would help me. She thought you were too selfless?

Yes. Nuts. I didn't know these therapists existed. Only in America. Yeah. She was very, I liked her a lot. She was one of the ones I was closest with.

And at the time, the virtue of selfishness was too dense for me. So then I thought, well, maybe I can read her fiction and The Fountainhead was a lot more manageable for me to understand.

Yeah. Have you watched her on YouTube? Yes. She is so erotic yeah um yeah morning like she's just there is i have no i mean most of these videos she's like 60s um she's got a crooked nose and funny skin and a really strange haircut that i sometimes look like i have when i have a short haircut and go back it it looks a little Iron Randy. But it is just like the energy in this woman.

The way she talks, it's like she's a Russian immigrant. She goes on, she's having an interview with a guy, you know, it's like a news presenter, and he's like, you were asking me in the break if people liked me more or less because of my success. i think they like me less it's a bizarre thing to come back from an ad break have the guy doing she's like yes people hate you and they want to bring you down because they're they're jealous you should never be jealous because of peter keating's they are isn't he a disturbing character yeah what was your i've

got my favorite bit of the fan head what was your favorite Yeah. I've got my favorite bit of the Fountainhead. What was your favorite bit of the Fountainhead? My favorite bit of the Fountainhead? Oh, when, gosh. Oh, wait. No, you starve him so I can think about it. Peter Kitting's love interest, who is I think the niece of that man. When she snaps and she realizes there's something wrong with her uncle and she's not articulate enough to know what it is,

she just breaks at him and goes get away from me i feel like that every day yeah that there's something huge and wrong about every airport that i'm in i feel like that woman just snapping and going i can't put my finger on it but get it away from me this is evil this amorphous collectivist goo just any haitian that comes around you. Can't get enough Haitians. Doesn't it feel like... Really? Interesting.

I feel that way at the movies. I feel like whenever I see movies, I go, is there a force out there trying to... And the arts. Yeah. Destroy every art and every good thing. It's so beautiful that you've said this. This is a paranoia that only I.

No, I also share that paranoia. My dad had it in a big way and still does. But he would like, you know, just we'd be watching a movie as a family and get up and walk out halfway through it. And he would say, you know, something like it's left wing. He would often say. But what he meant was this is no longer art. This has become propaganda in some way.

And it's haunting when that happens. When I see a bad movie, it wrecks me for ages. Wonder Woman 2 had to walk out halfway. I thought Wonder Woman 1 was actually really great, but Wonder Woman 2, evil. A great personification of that idea is the rotten tomatoes ratings where the critics score is much much higher than the audience score but also you can't trust the audience always completely but you'll you'll notice like those

oscar-based ones or just like some terrible movies and you'll see all the reviews are are blaringly positive and then it then that means a voice through the floor who owns these publications and why do they want to destroy art I've got some theories like when like when Ellsworth Toohey is propping up this terrible playwright and just... What does it benefit him to have a bad playwright? That's what I'm confused about is why, is the why. Because he goes on these monologues of like the most powerful thing

you can do is collect souls. He talks about collecting souls. We know people like that. Yes. Who sometimes they have them in a big way and it's very beautiful and sometimes you ever see you ever meet somebody who just wants to control everybody in the group oh yeah around them and people have to leave the group if they can't be under control right it's haunting and she identifies that with the religious impulse that he wanted to be i think think, a priest of some kind,

Ellsworth Toohey, when he was a boy. Yes. If I'm remembering this correctly. Yes. He was in, I think, yes, he wanted to be a priest and then he was in Princeton or something or the other. And she would, you know, Christianity to her is sort of like a slave religion. You have the great strong pagan religions.

Because it denies the self. Yeah. Which I think is a very perverse reading of Catholicism. I was there with her briefly at the time. I sort of thought, ah, Christianity seems nice. But like I sort of got, it helped that we weren't living in a Christian society. I imagine in the 30s when she's writing or the 40s,

when everyone is conservative and this thing is happening, you'd go, oh, I'll put those two together. It's probably the same force. But now whatever that force is, is not religious. Well, I think that energy of going like someone wants ugliness to succeed in the world. That lives on. That lives on. But the Christians are just not in power in America

in any meaningful way. You don't think so? No. The last time Christians were in power in America was like, you know, when Al Gore was coming out and insisting that expletives be put Tip o' Gore going like, let's clear up the smart and this sort of thing. No one's doing

that now. Tip o' Gore's probably getting together with Sexy Red. Talking about clapping that thing. I don't know if Tip o' Gore's still alive. It'd be a great podcast. Clap that thing? Yeah. Tip! I'll tell you. That was my sexy red impression.

Chip! Who's that guy who says Chip? Chip the Ripper. Oh, we've discussed Chip the Ripper before. Hold on, I don't want to get lost. Hold on, hold on. You guys are talking about so many things that I don't know. You guys went on a whole fountainhead. There's something when I watch the films of Christopher Nolan

that it makes me very happy and content. Like I feel like I'm in a safe pair of hands and he's getting me through the end and he really wants to make a great thing. And I might not always agree with the point he's making or even understand it, but I don't at any point resent... i think he's trying to make art uh there are many examples where this is not true of people but i just like i re-watched the the dark not the dark knight on a plane recently and it's like i've

i think i've watched this film 15 times now um he's not doing any of this because like he doesn't have to manipulate you or he's not he's made it and he like, he doesn't have to manipulate you. He's not. And he doesn't betray you in any way. He made a movie about Batman and he's not pandering. You know? He's made a weird, complicated movie that has some, like, problems in storytelling because of how much he's putting in there.

But he felt compelled to take something that is art that he didn't have words for and to distill it down into this picture, to try and have a big audience. He still wants there to be explosions and exciting things, but it's not like, you know, Michael Bay. You watch a Michael Bay movie and you go, do you hate me? Sometimes I think, you know.

And alternatively, Christopher Nolan could have made it, that story not bad, Batman, and made it pretentious and not accessible. Yes. That he thought there was a good yeah and that's sometimes his movies veer into that sort of territory right like when he has been indecipherable on purpose to be like oh sometimes we can't hear what evil is saying you go i can't hear what he's saying yeah i need to know so i think that film is film doesn't stand up as well.

It was a hard act to follow. Quentin Tarantino. I mean, these people, I think this is why we trust certain directors. It's because you go, oh, he's really making art. Yeah. I feel this way about, it's like a nothing movie. It's Call Me By Your Name with Timothee Chalamet and Armie Hamlet. I didn't see it. Do you know movie uh it's call me by your name with timothy chalamet i didn't see it you know who made it uh yes i've heard a lot of good day something whatever it's just straight

through there's most of the movie is like no sound or anything yeah or it is just sound it's no no dialogue it's like timothy chalamet walking around a house throwing a peach up and then they're doing gay stuff and then they're doing gay stuff but it's like a beautiful love story over two hours and 30 minutes. But it's so like, there's probably like 16 lines realistically when you break it down. But there's no. I like that. Yeah, there's no trickery.

There's no hidden message. It's just a gay love story in Italy. Have you? It's in Italy? Mm-hmm. All right. Well, that's interesting. There was an Italian film movement where they were doing a lot of that.

It's not New Wave, but like the Bicycle Thieves. Have you seen that? Yes. Just a lot of walking around and looking at stuff. Or, you know, there'll be a scene where a lady is lighting a stove and she just like walks over the stove and she's got her matches and the first one doesn't go and the second one doesn't go and the third one doesn't go and the fourth one goes

and then she turns it on. And it just takes as long as it's going to take you know we're not having any razzle dazzle for you you're going to watch this woman yeah this is what i'm hoping i think i get to make a movie in july and the script isn't quite long enough so i'm hoping to use some of these techniques to get that to a feature film length but i love things like that yeah it's a comedy it's just positive it can be great i appreciate the and we can all we all have a brief reprieve at the 38 minute mark to swear and i'll just edit edit the swears and i say go with it incredibly well you did it yes yeah you did a great job i lasted so it felt necessary and urgent sometimes i understand that that can be

boring you do risk being pretentious and boring yes i like i like replacing them you know no no i'm not saying with the swear words being pretend i'm saying cinema that takes a long time to get where it's going yes yes uh and but other times it's riveting uh but i remember the first time i saw stalker so tarkovsky but first and only time great movie very slow during the opening credit sequence which goes for like 10 minutes I was like I what and then it was great but I tried watching it another one of his moves and I just couldn't do it because I don't have time I understand the need to be gripping and flashy but mm-hmm are you an Ingmar Bergman person I have no idea very slow well i think i i like just like making boring

captivating yeah you know suspenseful in a way do you find this in music as well does this like philip glass i hate it when i was philip glass he was he's a minimalist composer he's probably the america the the most famous living American composer of classical music and it's all minimalism so when he came in it was all a tonal ism and people doing like short oh I know I sound as Chinese is that but Philip glass it's all like go for hours but it's a very small changes right he's influenced almost a lot of film scores by Philip glass and Truman show Philip glass other examples too I'm sure it's a good enough one yeah but it's but I want because like I feel better if I've been driving around listening

to the classical music station and like trying and giving myself to it. And it's like it doesn't have that boom, ta-boom, ta-boom, ta-boom, that throbbing Hispanic rhythm that you hear very loud everywhere in America. I do like listening to classical music in the car. I will just listen to it and think and go on a long drive. It is an effort. Sometimes I don't have the energy And I just pop on

Garbage Loud music Just a girl singing about her privates I did enjoy Rico Nasty Smack Which is actually about Not having to smack a bitch Thank god I didn't have to

What a blessing Not having to smack a bitch. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God I didn't have to today. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What a blessing to realize maybe I didn't need violence. I'm so glad I didn't need violence. Isn't it sad that she feels called to violence every day? Yeah. That it's a strange day to be thankful for when she doesn't have to smack a bitch? The relief of that.

Yeah. It's painful in itself. We're giving her more credit here than I hope. Yeah, the song's really holding a mirror to society. Really. Showing how bad things can get out there. I mean, it is, right? This is the problem with doing this Vice magazine style.

Yeah, tell me about it. Glorifying the bass and denigrating the glorious. But, yeah, you do listen to a song like Smack A Bitch and you can't help but think what a prison this woman is in that she has to smack a bitch all the time. In the brief moment she doesn't have to smack a bitch is good for her. You know, she's trapped in a very rage. You know, she doesn't like it.

I always think about the Pusha T when he says, 24-7, 365, pussy stays on my mind. And I think, that's sad. You know, he's not saying that as like a huzzah. I think about pussy always. It stays. It weighs on me. And, you know, and I'm cheating on my bitch.

And she has to get used to it because I'm not changing. And I'm going to give her money. I mean, he's not. This is not like. It's devastating. He's not saying, be this way. This is great. He's saying, I am a douchebag, an asshole.

He's screaming for help. It's so sad. Many examples. Many such cases. And lots of cuss words, I'll say. Look, I love cuss. I don't, I cuss. It's just for the pod.

It's just so the children can hear. These are lessons. What got you from a therapist years ago telling you to read some Ayn Rand to actually starting it up recently? I would try over and over to read The Virtue of Selfishness and then I felt in a place where I was starting to do more self-care things for myself. Okay.

And I just picked it up and was fascinated by it. There's this bookshop out in Bastrop and uh by this author i like ryan holiday he does a a lot of self-help stuff on stoicism he writes about stoicism a lot and he's got a bookshop in bastrop and it's a curated bookshop so it's a smaller collection okay that's fun yeah and i kept on seeing How far is that from where we are in? About 30 minutes. Okay, great. Yeah, it's a really fun day if you ever want to do a day.

I would love to. There's a park next to it, and we go to the Buc-ee's there all the time. All the time. We take trips nearly every week. Sometimes we go to Buc-ee's and we'll get a hotel. Patrick, myself, and Patrick's girlfriend, Heather. Very funny comic as well. You can get a hotel and go and visit the Buckeyes.

Yeah, and we'll eat snacks. This is lovely. It's great. We'll eat snacks and watch cable television. Doesn't sound like a dream. It's kind of nostalgic. Yeah. Yeah.

And then in the morning, we go to the diner. And then right across the diner is my favorite bookstore. And if we're really feeling it, if it's really in the mood, there's a wonderful, beautiful park walk right after. Lovely. Have you been to San Antonio? Yes, I was born there. Of course.

Excuse me. I apologize. And you've been on the walk since? The river walk? Yes, I was. No? I haven't done it yet. I've just heard that it's incredible. It's getting a lot a lot nicer no i went on the walk a month ago yeah with patrick hated it yes i brought

my younger siblings there i flew them down for a week and i thought what can we do there's not much to do in austin is what i realized other than drinking and they're young so i tell me about it i had nothing to do with good kids i'm trying to take them out to see you go to the art gallery you got a science museum what next come on yeah we went to the arcade three nights in a row you have to like i don't know what i don't know what else to do for you guys i'll get you burgers and we'll go to the san antonio did you go up to the tower no we did not they were too scared to do it i understand but i wanted to do that but then we did the river walk and it was horror it was green and mucky. And so many just fat, sweating, smelly people. I'm going to do it on the boat.

I'm going to get on the boat. That was a funny thing. One of the guys on the boat, they drove by me. They drove by us and they pointed out an ice cream shop. And the guy goes, that ice cream shop, all you need to know about that is they have a thousand dollar ice cream. So yeah, if you want to spend your time there, go go for it but i don't indulge in anything like that but i don't indulge in everything that everybody on the boat was kind of just like oh okay anyway by the way i'm paid by the river not paid by these businesses so i can say what i want sounds great james uh patrick and i were discussing this a few

nights ago if i'm remembering correctly what do you think about is self-improvement ever annoying? Yeah, what? Is it annoying to do or for other people to witness? Both. Yeah, of course. Well, I mean it's annoying to do but like is self-improvement ever taken too far?

I don't know about too far but I think in the wrong direction, sure. I think there's... I mean, self-improvement is about becoming more virtuous, as best I understand it within the Stoic tradition, that there are real virtues. You can become more prudent.

You can become more fortitudinous. All these good things that Aristotle would outline and the Gospels would add faith, hope and charity. But if you practice them, you get better at them. And what was weird to discover was that it's actually beautiful when you meet someone who's really, really brave or really kind or has a willing heart in a certain way.

It actually does make you feel really nice to be in that person's company. But certainly, I mean, that's not the self-improvement that I think most people are. I'm talking about modern day. Yeah, it's beastly, often. Beastly, in what way? You're turned into a human beast. Right.

You're turned into a human beast. Right. I mean, things about like, I'm trying to think of examples where I don't have to name specific people and be unpleasant about it. Give them a fake name. No, it's too difficult. Bob Oakland. I think that's a real person, but it's the fake name I came up with. Bob Oakland. Bob Oakland. Robert Oakland. Robert Oakland. I think that's a real person, but it's the fake name I came up with. Bob Oakland.

Bob Oakland. Robert Oakland. Rob Oak. Robert Everett Oakland. So what do they teach you in self-help? What are they telling you are the things you should be working on? Well, this is my problem with self-help is of all the self-help that I've read, a lot of it has opposing advice. Everything contradicts itself if you read enough self-help that I've read, a lot of it has opposing advice.

Everything contradicts itself if you read enough self-help. Yeah. There are people that say you should be doubling your work. You should be working 80 hours a week. And then there are books that say four-hour work week. So that's a 76-hour difference. You know? So I guess it's what you identify with but i don't think anyone

has the answers well there's a schizophrenic quality to it yeah yeah or what do you say i cut you off well no no i i mean you have a bunch of people who have a different idea of what human nature is and what human flourishing would look like so if you have someone who really values leisure they would say you want to minimize your work and spend your time in leisure if you have someone who has a different view that uh like making a lot of money is really good then you've got to do this i mean i like it as a theory and i i thought about doing it before ai came and i used to be a copywriter a digital copy copywriter, and I was really fast. Like I, whatever gifts Scott gave me for stand-up comedy,

he gave me real gifts. For copy. For churning out 3,000 words. It's eight, is it? No, I'm going to go with one of my fours in my pocket. He gave me an incredible gift for writing acceptable copy really, really fast without using the computer started getting better at magnifying people's work but I was like I could get all my work done in a day and be on

the same level as everybody else in the company who I saw like tapping wham it's like I could you know I could start a podcast about a boat I can do my comedy or I just spend time with my family and go for walks. But I was tempted to think, what if I just work a normal week? I could work five jobs like this. This is a $60,000 a year position. I'd be on $300,000 and I'd just be working a normal amount for a normal person. And I just could never be asked to do it.

But I like this thing that young programmers do it of like just taking on if you have like a weird adhd brain and you can get yourself into a fixation just work really hard for five years doing a heap of jobs and bank five million dollars and then move off the interest or something which i that would be interesting. But, I mean, who really knows what human nature is? Who knows like the – if you're trying to help yourself, help yourself where?

Help yourself like what does a happy person look like? And that's why I – one of the reasons I became Catholic is I saw these young families when I would go to mass and I would go, oh, there's like a brightness and a reasonableness to these people i'd been going to like the mega churches as a joke sort of i'll be on the road and it would be sunday let's go see what's happening on sunday morning and i remember going to a mega church and other sorts of uh pros and things and just being like overwhelmed by how dumb people looked like just like in their eyes

they looked stupid and it's like i hate it i was like it was a very ellsworth two-e type thing where i was going there's something wrong here what's wrong and then i went to the catholic thing it's young families a lot of people smoking a lot of people look tired a lot of checked shirts and ladies in dresses just like getting it together for one day to get through it. But there was like a vitality. It's like they know something I don't. They're going in a direction that I haven't been and I want a piece of that and I want it for me.

And so I'm going to take it. And I told that to the priest. Who was he? He said, why do you want to become a priest? And what did he say? I like what these families – well, I used nicer language. And he says, you want what they have. You want to take what they have and have it for yourself. And I said, why do you want to become a priest? And what did he say? I like what these families say. Well, I use nicer language. And he says, you want what they have. You want to take what they have and have it for yourself.

And I said, yeah. And he went, that's not a bad place to start. And he's a great priest. I love him very much. He said, that's a willing heart. Genuinely, you've observed the good and you've gone, can I have that? And frequently, I find the picture that the church has of human nature doesn't add up with what I want, you know?

But what do you want? The catamaran? Oh, sometimes a big fat ass. You know, whatever. Right. Or – But isn't that kind of included? Like the desire for those things?

Yeah. The human nature of wanting things that maybe aren't serving others and you? Well, I think this is where the church's view of what the soul is, is so different to Ayn Rand, where she sort of goes, if you really like know your heart, you go and get it. And the church would say there's original sin and you're not always going to be the best judge of what your heart really wants because you may have a willing heart but there's a wound on it and you have concupiscence and it feels good to make other people feel bad,

not to get anything, but just to make them feel small. You know? I do. All the time. Too much. I'm trying to be better at that. Yes, it's wonderful to be wrathful. It's wonderful to take something from somebody else.

I mean, these are really – it makes you feel like a big man. There's a bit in Norm's book where he's talking about prison rape and they're trying to – have you read Norm's book? Oh, it's so good. And the guy's like, rape's so good and the guy's like rape's not about sex about power and norm goes ah like when i scatter change over a bridge so the homeless people have to run and try and get money and dodge the cars that's what rape is very rape heavy podcast apologize to all the victims um and perpetrators who don't want to

think about the terrible things they've done in the past. I don't think we're good judges of knowing what is going to make us happy and what is beautiful if it's true about Christianity is they go, well, God became man and you live like that and you're never going to figure out how to do that on your own. And that's like just a gift from beyond. The reason can help you figure out how to do that, but it's never going to show you what that is. And this your own and that's like just a gift from beyond that reason can help you figure out how to do that but it's never going to show you what that is and this is revelation that's given now if it's not true that's a crazy that's crazy and you're chasing after something

that's not based in reality at all but if it's true then you've been given the gift of really knowing what human nature is and that's the only way from knowing sort of what the first thing is that you should be after. That's why everything else is schizophrenic because you don't know. They all have a different idea of who you're meant to be. But if you have a real idea, solid personal idea of who you're meant to be, then someone chasing that and trying to help themselves be that, I love it. It's great.

It's so nice to watch someone really better themselves. But then, you know, if you want to be healthy that's great if you want to be super muscular and hot it's gross both of them might end up looking the same and they might be doing the same activities but there's that you can pick up a vibe that hurts you is that i'm sorry for rambling but that is how I feel about it. No, that's fascinating to hear your perspective on that. I've never asked you these sorts of questions, or we've never had this sort of deep of a discussion. It's hard after a show. Yeah, yeah.

I'm certainly not there after a show. I'm just thinking, fuck! We can all have one more swear. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to We can all have one more swear.