The Jamie Kern Lima Show - First Lady Jill Biden Pt 4 Life-Changing Lessons on Staying Strong, Defying the Odds, Loyalty & Love

Starting point is 00:00:00 President Biden's conversations with his biographer were just released in the form of some audio clips. He fought for years to not be released that talk about classified material. What can you share about that? They were personal conversations, and I don't think they should have been released. President Trump's 80 right now. Do you think there should be an age limit on public servants being in elected office? Probably. Coming up in this incredible part or episode with First Lady Dr. Jill Biden.

Starting point is 00:00:35 First Lady Dr. Jill Biden. I read your book cover to cover. Congratulations. Yeah, how many books do you read? Oh, my gosh. Do you believe our elections are fair now going into midterms? How do you handle and process and not get taken down by any naysayers or haters? Jamie, if you look at the first line of... My book, once you experience the death of a child, nothing else can hurt you.

Starting point is 00:01:09 I don't know that I've seen you get emotional. I told you, I'm not a crier. And, you know, I was not quite steeled for the beginning of the interview, I guess. I mean, your heart is open and I'm grateful for that. How did it feel in your body when President Trump won? I was shocked. Who do you think will be the Democratic? nominee for 2028.

Starting point is 00:01:32 If it's Vance, Rubio, or Trump, which I know you can't do a third term, but if it's Vance Ruby or Trump, what would your guest be? Yeah, but how would it be Trump? Legally, I don't think it could currently. No. No. I mean, isn't it in the Constitution? Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:01:48 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so are a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. In your book, you describe Melania as Frosty. You mentioned she declined your invite to T.

Starting point is 00:02:00 and she hasn't invited you to tea, which is normally of a First Lady tradition, that you've sent a birthday card every year, but that the openness to connection was not reciprocated. If it were to be reciprocated today and you get an invite to tea and you go to tea with Melania, what would you, what would you say or ask? I probably... Did you watch the Melania documentary? I watched it. Oh, you did?

Starting point is 00:02:30 I did, yeah. Are we going to expect to see a Jill Biden documentary? Is it true? The staff and teams for the president are sometimes competing against the staff and teams for the vice president? No, we worked. Oh, the vice president.

Starting point is 00:02:44 First word that comes to mind when I say the following words are people. Michelle Obama. Jenna Bush Hager. The East Wing. AOC. Gavin Newsom. Texas rep James Tala Rico.

Starting point is 00:02:57 Kamala Harris. President Trump. Skip. When do you think we'll have a woman president? Not in my lifetime. You and I were both waitresses. I learned a lot of things at Denny's when I was waitressing. How did you learn to have interesting conversation, to talk at a dinner party,

Starting point is 00:03:16 to know how to have proper manners? Did someone teach you? You had to pick it up. I mean, it's survival. Did you ever do etiquette training or like charm school or do they have a first lady? crash course. You were saying in a single car ride with you and President Biden, in a single car ride you can see someone saluting you, someone giving you the finger, and someone mooning you.

Starting point is 00:03:40 Yes. All in the same car ride. Did I ever moon somebody? Yes. No. No, no. Have you in President Biden? Did you know, you're behind the windows of Secret Service.

Starting point is 00:03:49 You know, you're in the car. No one can see you. Have you ever, or President Biden ever, like, given them the finger back? Do you swear? Oh, God, yes. Do you have a favorite word? Joe hates it. Hates it when I swear.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Yeah? But I know I can win a fight if I use certain words. What does it start with? Jamie, yeah? First Lady Dr. Jill Biden made history as the first first lady to hold a full-time job as a college professor while also serving in her full-time role in the White House and across the country as our first lady. She's carried unimaginable tragedies and loss, from losing her son, Bo to cancer,

Starting point is 00:04:34 to her other son Hunter, battling extreme drug addiction, to now President Joe Biden being diagnosed with stage four metastatic cancer. And she has a brand new book out called View from the East Wing. You can get it anywhere books are sold, and it's also on Audible, where the First Lady herself reads it to you. And today she's opening up like never before, and nothing is off limits.

Starting point is 00:05:00 I am so happy you're here and so excited for this conversation. We're having together today with First Lady, Dr. Jill Biden. The intention of the show is to be a force for good and a force for love. I have guests on that might vote differently or love differently or pray differently from you and me because I believe to help heal humanity through love, we must first understand the humans who make it up. And I am so happy that you are here, no matter how you vote, how you love, how you pray, you belong here. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone shared this episode with you,

Starting point is 00:05:39 welcome for the Jamie Kernelima Show podcast family. I'd be so grateful if you take two seconds and just hit the subscribe button on the app or listening or watching on. That way you're going to be the very first to get every inspirational episode. Plus, you can also get weekly inspiration into your inbox. from me to you for free, just join my newsletter at jamiekernlima.com. And thank you so much for sharing this episode with every single person you know who might need some inspiration of their own today or perhaps some hope because we are all in this one

Starting point is 00:06:10 life together. And right now, as the First Lady shares in this episode, President Joe Biden is in the fight of his life battling stage four cancer. While the First Lady agreed that today no questions were off limits. And so I do ask the most pressing questions so many of us want to know. I also want to ask you to join me in praying for President Biden's health and strength and in praying for and sending love

Starting point is 00:06:39 to his entire family during this time. Welcome to the Shamy Karn Lehmishout. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. First lady Michelle Obama. Jamie, you are going so deep. I have never had this in-depth conversation. I've actually never said that out loud to anybody in an interview before. You know how to get there. Your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow, Melinda French Gates.

Starting point is 00:07:20 When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic world. level with her. Megan Duchess of Sussex. I wasn't expecting that one. I could see the light around her. She's infused with light. Maria Shriver. I never made that mistake again. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima show. Jamie Kern-Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie from Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

Starting point is 00:08:02 In your book, one of the things I laughed out loud at was you were saying in a single car ride with you and President Biden, in a single car ride you can see someone saluting you, someone giving you the finger, and someone mooning you. Yes. All in the same car ride, which I can completely imagine. So here's my question. Did I ever moon some of the thing? No, no, no, have you in President Biden, because you know, you're behind the windows of Secret Service, you know, you're in the, no one can see you. Have you ever, or President Biden ever, like, given them the finger back and they can't see it? No, no, no. That's one thing. Moon them? No. No. Can you imagine the Secret Service if we're mooning so? I think they'd be stoic. I mean, honest to God, but really. They'd be stoic. They wouldn't laugh, I bet. You know what? I don't like, I think, giving somebody that finger is really a vulgar thing. Yeah. And, and I have, I don't think I've ever in my life

Starting point is 00:09:05 seeing Joe do that. No. Ever. No. No. Do you swear? Oh, God, yes. Okay. Do you have a favorite word? Don't say it, but like maybe what it starts with. Yeah. What order? Probably the same one as everybody else uses, because I know it has the biggest impact, because Joe hates it, hates it, hates it when I swear. Yeah. But I know I can win a fight if I use certain words. What does it start with? Jamie. Yeah? Does it start with F? Yeah. Okay. Okay. But he and he he swears, right? He does, but you know, not, not at, like in the house. Yeah. I mean, I've heard him swear like a hundred times, but not like he, it's not part of his, I don't know, vernacular. I mean, it's just not part of the way he speaks. At least not around the family.

Starting point is 00:09:58 Yeah. I mean, we have grandkids around a lot. How did it feel in your body when President Trump won? I was shocked. He won. I mean, I really thought Kamala was going to win. I mean, I was out on the road for her. I campaigned for her all over this country.

Starting point is 00:10:26 I saw the enthusiasm and the energy and everything that was going on. and when I woke up the morning after the election, because I went to bed thinking, oh, she, you know, she's going to win. And when I found out that she lost, I mean, I went, because I was making my coffee. And actually, I think it was Anthony called me and said, have you seen the results? I knew before, you know, when I saw that, I said, oh, my God, I ran into the bedroom and I woke Joe up. It was like five in the morning. And I said, why didn't you tell me?

Starting point is 00:10:58 Why didn't you wake me up? and he said, I know, you know, she lost. And I was devastated. How did you feel? I want to believe our elections are fair? I know, we really want to believe that because that's what our tradition has been. That's what our belief in our country and our systems. But all of the systems now have broken down.

Starting point is 00:11:24 I mean, let's face it, look at the Supreme Court, look at the three branches of government. You know, and so it's so hard to think, I still believe, I still believe. Do you believe our elections are fair now? You know, going into midterms? I hope they are because I can't give up on our country as what I believed our country to be. I mean, I am a proud American as I think most Americans are. And so you have to believe that your vote matters and that whether you mail in your vote or go to the voting place. It's just like it's like you kind of can't even go there in your head like this is all rigged.

Starting point is 00:12:16 But then you see things and you think you do question. Yeah. We do question. Like how did this happen? How did it happen? I mean, just all the states that were blue states, I just, I don't have any answers for that. How does it feel in your body when you see President Trump in person today? I don't see him. I don't turn it on the TV. I don't listen to him. I don't see him.

Starting point is 00:12:46 What about at an event, you know, a funeral, something like that? Oh, if I go to a funeral and see him. You know, I always say, The opposite of love is not hate, which you might think it might be. It's indifference. And if you can get yourself to the place of indifference, then you've won the battle. And so I have tried very hard because hate is so negative. And it's so it eats at you and it's time consuming and it's toxic. Yes.

Starting point is 00:13:24 If I can say, you know, if I can think I can get through this, it's going to be over, it's not forever. And I am not going to let this one person ruin the joy in my life. Then I feel like I have it conquered. It was beautiful. That's powerful. I love it. Who do you think will be the Democratic nominee for 2028? I have no idea.

Starting point is 00:14:00 None. I don't have any idea. I mean, we have so many stars, you know. I mean, if you look at Gavin, if you look at, you know, Pritzker, if you look at, you know, some of the other people who want to run, Gino Romando. Gosh, who else wants to run? Oh, Kamala. You know, we have some really good people in the party. Or there could be somebody like this James Talarico who, I mean, who I never had heard about before a couple of months ago.

Starting point is 00:14:42 I mean, it's, you just don't know. You know, somebody could come out of nowhere. Yeah. And so, right. Right now between a few of the people you name, and I'll add a few in, let's say, Gavin Newsom, AOC, Kamala, Pete Buttigieg, Pritzker, James Tolariko from Texas.

Starting point is 00:15:06 Who would you say, do you see as maybe the most strategic and smart candidate in the party? No, I'm not going to answer that. They are all strategic and smart. You know, I don't, not that I want to reveal that, you know, I have a tendency to like some more than others, but I never, and this is the truth, I never, ever tell anybody who I voted for. Even Joe, and even if he asked me, I won't tell him. You won't tell him.

Starting point is 00:15:40 So he never knows whether I voted for him or not. On the Republican side, who do you think is the most likely nominee or? Oh, I don't, you know I said I'm not political. I mean, really, I don't follow this stuff. If it's Vance, Rubio, or Trump, which I know you can't do a third term, but if it's Vance Rubio or Trump, what would your guest be? Yeah, well, then how would it be Trump? Legally, I don't think it could currently. No. No. I mean, isn't it in the Constitution? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so are a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. So between Vance and Rubio, any thoughts?

Starting point is 00:16:21 I have no thoughts. No. Okay. Because I'm not going to be voting for them anyway, so. You know, I want to ask you this, I've had the gift and blessing of having, in addition to you, some of the most incredible people in the world on this podcast. Like people I admire their life, what they've gone through. And I want to ask this for everyone listening because we are now in a day. age of social media, of online. I mean, doctors that don't want to profile or or the real estate of whoever doesn't want to be public, but now they're getting Yelp reviews and they're online. And like it's just like they're having to build a personal brand. And I feel like you can't do anything, anybody, a teacher, anybody can't do anything without now facing public scrutiny. And, you know, in the past, there'd be someone that just didn't want to be in

Starting point is 00:17:15 photos ever. Now they have no choice. Everything's online. they have to be on Zooms. The magnitude of anybody, not you specifically, anybody in the kind of public role and how high profile of a public role that you are in and have been in. The amount of opposition, of haters, of scrutiny, all of that. I want to ask this for everyone at home who's going, my friend in high school wrote this on Facebook and I want to cry and not even go after my dream anymore because it's it hurt me what they said. How do you handle and process and not get taken down by any naysayers or

Starting point is 00:18:03 haters? What is your advice for all of us? You know, I've had my share. I mean, just like most people in the public eye. And I think it's, I don't know, part of my philosophy of life. I mean, you've got to have this inner strength and say, you know, I know who I am. I know I'm stronger than this. I know that I can persevere. And yes, it may hurt, but I can get past this. And I think, Jamie, if you look at the first line of my book, once you experience the death of a child, nothing else can hurt you.

Starting point is 00:18:56 And that is the most truthful thing I can say to you. You got your doctorate at the age of 55, which is so inspiring for so many people. Thank you. When it comes to, I always believe that it's never too late to go after your dreams, to pursue things. I do too. When it comes to politics, President Trump's 80 right now. Do you think there should be an age limit on public servants being in elected office? Probably.

Starting point is 00:19:27 What do you think it should be? I don't know. I never thought about it. It has to be somewhere in the 80s, I guess. 80s? Yeah. In your book, you describe Melania as frosty. Did I actually use the word frosty?

Starting point is 00:19:50 Use the word frosty. I have it in quotes here. You use the word frosty in the car ride to the inauguration. And you mentioned she declined your invite to tea and she hasn't invited you to tea, which is normally a First Lady tradition that you've sent a birthday card every year. But that the openness to connection was not reciprocated. If it were to be reciprocated today and you get an invite to tea and you go to tea with Melania, what would you, what would you say? or ask? I probably wouldn't get personal. I think I would just ask the sorts of things she was working on and what was important to her. Did you watch the Melania documentary? No.

Starting point is 00:20:36 No. I watched it. Oh, you did? I did. Yeah. Are we going to expect to see a Jill Biden documentary? Oh, I haven't thought about it. But what did you think about Melania's documentary?

Starting point is 00:20:46 I love documentaries. Like, I love them. Whether I believe it's accurate or I believe it's how someone wants to be portrayed, I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating to go, what's included, what's shown from behind the scenes. You know, we had Michelle Obama, first lady Michelle Obama on the show. And I love hearing her share, her story from behind the scenes. Same with your book. Your book, though, goes into so many parts of life that we can all actually relate to.

Starting point is 00:21:16 Real stuff. addiction, family, keeping a family together. How do you handle a loss? Like your documentary would be phenomenal. So I think I hope this book. Oh, now I'll think about it. Yeah, I hope this book becomes a documentary. Okay, I'm going to do lightning round. So these are, these are questions that people have written in and want to ask. Okay. And then some of these are just first words that come to mind. First words that come to mind. Oh, this is scary. First word that comes to mind when I say the following words are people. Michelle Obama. Oh, gosh.

Starting point is 00:21:49 Amazing. Jenna Bush Hager. Warm. I love both of them. Yeah. I know they, I love you. The East Wing. Gone.

Starting point is 00:22:00 AOC. Oh, I love her. Gavin Newsom. I love him, too. Texas rep. James Tolariko. I've not met him, but I'm hopeful. That's my word, hopeful.

Starting point is 00:22:14 He was phenomenal on this show, by the way. Well, I saw it. Yeah, he's so good. I can't wait to meet him. He's great. You know, you meet someone, you're like, oh, thank goodness, they are who they say they are. It's just, Kamala Harris. Kamala, what word would I use? Friend. President Trump. Skip. When do you think we'll have a woman president?

Starting point is 00:22:48 Not in my lifetime. And I'm 75. vibe. So, you know, that doesn't, I don't know how that looks for the next, hopefully 15, 20 years, but at least with AI, they're saying it could be way longer. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I don't understand it either. We have so many good women. Yeah, I know. I mean, really amazing, amazing women. So these are questions from viewers. Is it true? The staff and teams for the president are sometimes competing against the staff and teams or the vice president. No, we worked to, we were, oh, the vice president.

Starting point is 00:23:26 You know, I don't know because we, I mean, they, I think they work together beautifully, but I mean, everybody gets, you know, something in their crawl now and again. But, I mean, they are a team. We always felt that Kamala and Doug were a team. And I always, I mean, I traveled with Doug. He became a teacher. I don't know whether you know that. So we talk about teaching all the time.

Starting point is 00:23:53 So I felt we were a true team. Do you think Michelle Obama should run for office? No, because she doesn't want to. Why didn't we see Kamala doing anything visible for four years? Oh, my gosh. I don't feel that way at all. Don't get mad at me for this one. President Biden's conversations with his biographer were just released in the form

Starting point is 00:24:21 of some audio clips that he fought for years to not be released, that talk about classified material. What can you share about that? They were personal conversations, and I don't think they should have been released. Greatest life lesson you've ever received. Be kind. What do you want people to remember you for? Well, I hope that they remember me as, I have. don't know, like I said, I wanted to be a reflection of American women. And I felt that I'm a mom,

Starting point is 00:25:01 I'm a grandma, I'm a sister, I'm a wife, I'm a working woman. And I hope that women and men see me as someone that they could, I hope that they see parts of me. in themselves, and they feel that we have a lot in common. Because I wanted to be a reflection of who I feel American women are. How does it feel to know you will be in history books forever? Amazing. As among many things, the first, first lady to ever work a full-time job. One of the reasons I'm so excited for... I'm proud of that. Yeah, it's so badass. I'm sorry to say badass to the first lady, but it's so badass. One of the reasons I'm excited for everyone to get your new book, View from the West Wing Home, is it shows all the layers of your life and all the things that

Starting point is 00:26:03 you've carried, the things you've stood for. It's easy to stand for things when times are easy, but to stand for them through hardships, to stand for them when you could push the easy button instead to, you know, the things that you have navigated and carried, and I think we've had a number of incredible first ladies in our history. We've all carried different things, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought I knew a lot before I read the book. I learned so much and so much that I connect with.

Starting point is 00:26:38 And it made me really excited for this conversation. And it makes me excited for everyone who's going to get your. book home. Right? Because I think so many of us, when we connect and we share and we learn and we bond and we feel less alone and we feel more inspired and we see, okay, if this person overcame that odds or this person feels that way too, and they're actually admitting it, okay, I'm not alone in this. And I want to say on behalf of all women and all Americans, thank you. You've been in this a number of decades in many capacities as a professor, as someone who loves your students, someone who could be doing, you know, you name it as First Lady, but you're also grading papers

Starting point is 00:27:22 traveling to and from places because you're so passionate about what you do. And I think, you know, the lessons you share in here that you give to your daughter, your son, your grandkids are lessons that I feel like you're sharing with us in this book. And so I want to say thank you for that. And the last thing I want to make sure I don't forget to ask you is for everyone out there who was maybe raised like me where I have five families. I'm like working multiple jobs. I know you and I are both waitresses. I learned a lot of things at Denny's when I was waitressing, but I did not learn how do you conduct? I've been in rooms now at Jill where I know you call you Jill. I want to say first lady, Dr. Biden. I've been in rooms now where I'm like,

Starting point is 00:28:07 I don't even know where to put the fork or the napkin or okay, there's a hundred people in this room, I don't know any of them. How do I start talking about stuff with people? So, which fork do you use? Like, just how did you learn? Because you say, you know, President Biden's very extroverted. He will talk to everyone all day long and just get filled up and love it. And you and I are more similar. I'm more introverted. Isn't that funny? You do this whole podcast. Public thing. But yeah, I'm so, like, I'm the one that listens in rooms. Like, I just, and so for anyone introverted out there and you share a lot about this in your book as well. What is your advice just on for someone who wants to learn, you know, how did you learn to carry a conversation at a

Starting point is 00:28:54 dinner party, to carry a conversation in a room that's like a cocktail hour when you really don't want to talk to anyone you want to go home in your PJs and like watch real housewives or something or you'll probably do something more sophisticated than that, but I'd want to go in my PJs. But like how did you learn to have interesting conversation to talk at a dinner party? to know how to have proper manners. I don't know, just practice, I guess. Did someone teach you? No.

Starting point is 00:29:21 No. I just, you had to pick it up. I mean, it's survival. And I knew, like speaking, public speaking, I was scared to death as a senator's wife to go and speak in public. I mean, I could go into any classroom in America and feel totally in control. But I was scared to death. I kind of felt like if I had to go speak somewhere,

Starting point is 00:29:47 it felt like I was going to go to the dentist, you know, that kind of fear you have. And I just made up my mind. You know, I've got to get good at this. And I'm going to be doing it, and I want to be good at it. I want people to hear what I'm saying and not be bored by my speeches or what I'm saying. And that's important to me.

Starting point is 00:30:08 It was important to me as a teacher. important to me as a political spouse. Important to me, you know, just with my friends that, you know, they want to be with me. Did you ever do etiquette training or like charm school or do they have a first lady? No, they don't have anything like that. But when I was second lady, I remember I did have someone come in and train the staff about what to use and where to put your napkin. and what this, and I taught my grandkids. I mean, I showed them because, well, I make them set the table.

Starting point is 00:30:47 So they have, do you make your kids set the table? Yes, but it's not very classy yet. It's like, can you get a paper towel? You know, most nights, most nights. So we haven't learned that formally yet. But I do make them do chores and set the table and feed the dogs, yes. So you just learn by experience. And heck, I mean, now there's so much online.

Starting point is 00:31:06 You could find anything for, you know, for any situation. You just have to look it up. Look it up. But you just, you know, observe other people and, I don't know, see what you admire. And it always helps if you have a sense of humor. So if you can laugh and laugh at yourself, you know, and make mistakes and just laugh about it, that's half the battle. I am so grateful that you're here. I'm grateful for this conversation.

Starting point is 00:31:33 I'm grateful for your heart just wide open. I don't know that I've seen you get emotional. Like, yeah, I told you, I'm not a crier. And, you know, I was, you know, not quite steeled for the beginning of the interview, I guess. I mean, your heart is open and I'm grateful for that. And I think that's, you know, and it's wide open in your book. And everyone needs to get a copy of your brandy book. And give it to everyone you know also who maybe is, you know, needing to hold on to their identity in a new season,

Starting point is 00:32:04 or who is experiencing loss or grief or. questioning their faith or wanting to unite their family or has a loved one, whether it's a partner or anyone else in their life, going through an illness or is finding themselves in a caretaker role and finding themselves, you know, in their 70s and still has so much of the world to take on with passion. Your book is a gift and view from the East Wing and it's out everywhere books are sold and I love that you read it. So make sure you're sure you grab your audio copy on Audible as well. And I hope you'll come back for your next book. Thank you. And tell Joe to come on for his book in November. His book's coming out in November.

Starting point is 00:32:49 Thank you for giving us a little like sneak peek about that. That's a big deal. And thank you. Well, thank you. This has been a gift. Thank you, Jamie. Remember this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app you're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life,

Starting point is 00:33:15 if you could please give it a rating or review, five stars really, really good. I'd be so grateful. And again, share it with everyone that you believe in, share it with another person in your life who maybe could benefit from it or is making a change in their life or carrying grief or just needs hope and inspiration.

Starting point is 00:33:31 You can also post the episode and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. But before you go, I want to share some words with you

Starting point is 00:33:48 that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. and it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are.

Starting point is 00:34:08 Heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intentional.

Starting point is 00:34:32 as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show - First Lady Jill Biden Pt 4 Life-Changing Lessons on Staying Strong, Defying the Odds, Loyalty & Love

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