The Jamie Kern Lima Show - How to Communicate with More Confidence and Master Your Next Conversation! With Jefferson Fisher

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Full Video Available on YouTube @JamieKernLimaOfficial. Are You Ready to believe in YOU?🙌 jamiekernlima.com 👈 Sign up for my FREE Inspirational Newsletter here and you’ll ALSO get special prompt questions to help you grow in your self-worth-building that pair with each episode!🩷  Make sure to click the “Follow” button for the show on your favorite podcast app, so you’ll be the first to get each episode!  ____ Did you know that how you communicate, how you argue, and how you handle the way others communicate and treat you, can change every single part of your life! Today we have one of the top communication experts in the world, who’s sharing the secrets and Simple tools you can apply right now today, to help you communicate with confidence to improve your life at work, at home and in your most important relationships! Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, 5th generation award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker whose work has gained him millions of followers all over the world, through short, simple, practical social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it’s handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations! His brand-new book, The Next Conversation – Argue Less, Talk More is out now! Jefferson says you can change everything about your life by what you say next! And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice to fly here and be with YOU and me today!  And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. Episode Reflection Questions for YOU: Jamie writes prompt questions each episode to spark revelations in your self-worth journey and help you apply the tools and lessons from each episode into your real life right now. Please make sure you’re signed up for Jamie’s free inspirational newsletter  jamiekernlima.com 👈 Get my new book WORTHY plus FREE Bonus gifts including a 95+ page Worthy Workbook and more at WorthyBook.com  Jefferson's new book, The Next Conversation – Argue Less, Talk More, is now available at https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here https://jamiekernlima.com/show/ for the podcast episode page. Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show  4:15 Leaving A Legacy 7:43 Share Your Blessing 24:15 Power Of A Pause 27:55 Your Breath Communicates 32:05 Argue Smarter 40:40 Make Decisions Easier 43:53 Be A Lighthouse It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click Here to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here:  Instagram TikTok Facebook Website —  Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at: jamiekernlima.com  —  Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are!  WORTHY Believe IT

I love a great life-changing episode. I am so excited for this one today. Did you know that how you communicate, how you argue, and how you handle the way others communicate and treat you can change every single part of your life? Today, we have one of the top communication experts in the world who's sharing the secrets and simple tools you can apply to your life right now today to help you improve your life at work, at home, and in your most important relationships. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth-generation, award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker whose work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical

social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations, and his brand new book called The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More is out now. Jefferson says, you can change everything about your life by what you say next. And you and I are in for a treat

because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice. He got on an airplane, he flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you'd take two seconds to

click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on. It'll help you because you're going to be the very first to get the episodes and it's going to help the show because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover. And if you leave a 5-star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show together and it truly means so much to me.

Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima! Jefferson Fisher, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.

I'm so excited you're here. Wow. What has happened with you, with your advice, with your videos, it has become a phenomenon. Thank you. You're very sweet, thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing and right now I'm just holding on. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I'm excited so much to dive into today. You know, tens of millions of people, watch your videos from you in the seat of your car and with an iPhone. Can you just talk about how this all happened for the person who maybe already watches you and loves you every day, which by the way, half of the people I know do, or maybe someone's brand new listening to you and me and discovering who you are for the first time. Give us a little insight on how this all happened and

how you now are joined by tens of millions of friends every time you put out your words. Yeah, it started never with the idea that this is where it would be. It's just continually been one step after one step, door after another door. I was at a big defense firm, a big law firm, and then I, as a partner, I left because I want to start my own. And when I did that, I thought, well, I ought to do some social media. And that was about three years ago. And I started making videos talking about my law firm. I just, I was a personal injury attorney, this is what I did, and I just felt sour about it,

going, yeah, I'm just selling myself, and I didn't feel that great. And I just kinda had this moment of, well, what do I really wanna, what do I want my kids to see? If I'm not here anymore, is that really what I wanna post? And so often people post things without thinking of the legacy that they're leaving.

And that really hit me hard, of like, who do I't my kids to see that I Am and that I stood for and I thought well, what's one thing that I feel that I know That's my gift that I can share and it was I can teach people how to communicate you know how to how to handle argument how to turn conflict into connection and so I Thought well, no, I can't do that. I need the right camera. I need the right lighting.

I need to look like a lawyer. And eventually I just got over the excuses and I thought, well, I don't have an office because I just started my firm. I said, but I have my truck and I have my phone. Let's go. So I made my first few videos and then they just started to take off from there and I

just built a wonderful, wonderful community of people that really care about communication. And I just believe that a better world begins with a better conversation. I really do. You know, tell me if I read this right, didn't your first videos you posted, maybe these were about the law firm, their legal advice, but didn't the first few videos you post on Instagram get like zero views? Oh nothing, they got zero. I googled why do my videos have zero views and I even, there was one where I hired a good friend to record a video for me TikTok style because that was the big thing at the time, like very fast quick transitions and I paid him to do it and I posted it. You know how many people saw it, Jamie? How many? Zero. Nobody. Nobody. There are more people

that watched me making a video with my kids, which I don't post my kids anymore, and my family. Then they did for the video that I paid for. Yeah. And I thought something's not right. It's just I'm not, I'm not being myself. I'm not being authentic. And that was just what, that was a path that was open for me to say, no, you need to start sharing what's on your heart. Yeah. Does it feel different in your body when you were posting stuff about legal advice? Obviously, you're a fifth generation award-winning attorney with a busy practice, all the things, but did it feel different in your body when you're posting legal advice versus When you started talking about sort of adding value to other people's lives at home on how to communicate in ways that makes their life

Better. Absolutely. It was very it was really rewarding. It's still I still get the same feeling It is I can't tell you Jamie how eye-opening it is for me the fact that I make these videos in my car. Nobody else is around. Nobody's... It's in a parking lot. It's on the side of wherever... I can make them in a gas station. No budget. No budget. And I think about them almost immediately before I make them. And then right after I make them, I post them. So probably not wise, but I don't batch anything. So what they're seeing is really my thoughts in real time of what happened in my day, what's going on. But the ability to help somebody

in the comp, first when I started to get some followers, that was very new to me. I originally only had like 800 followers, which by the way, were all friends from school and law school. They didn't, that was more intimidating to post to real friends and people that you knew. You care about their opinion a whole lot more than if it's a whole bunch of strangers. And so slowly I just got really, really sweet comments of people saying, this is great, I'd love to hear about this and what are your thoughts on that? And it's just when you operate in a spirit of giving, a lot of good things happen. Do you feel like when you hold that phone up and you're saying you think about it right before,

and yet the content you're putting out is resonating with tens of millions of people. And like you said, there's a whole lot of people hiring big teams, producing content, all the things that doesn't resonate with people. You're putting this phone up video after video after video. People binge watch your videos, by the way. But do you feel like you have an anointing?

Do you feel like your faith or your calling is part of this just clear... It's a whole other level. When can I don't want to call it channeling but when people can can can connect at this level it almost looks like they have a talent that's just part of their calling or what they're supposed to do on this earth how did do you feel that when you film a video like where that comes from and how it comes out of you in a way that impacts so many people. Yeah. Jamie, my parents, every night, my dad would sit on the edge of my

bed, lean over and pray and say, Dear God, give Jefferson wisdom and always be his friend. And that was the prayer for all of my life. And I, in my heart, never will doubt the fact that what I have in communication is a gift. And it is my honor, my blessing to share that gift. And so when I share it, I don't think of millions of followers. I think of one person. And in many ways, that is my ability to be the light in their life that they needed, to just hear how to inject some grace and kindness into their world. And that is my gift to share.

That's why it's my joy, because it's truly the gift. It's not something that, you know, people say, oh, you learned it in law school, it's because you're an attorney. No, no, no. Law school teaches you how to read the law. It doesn't teach you how to read people. And so many things that have happened to me

are from a spirit of discernment that you only know when you feel it and that's the wisdom that is given. So you talk about your dad, and that's beautiful, by the way. Thank you for sharing that. What I love right now is because I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about everyone at home who maybe has done a particular career or they're doing it,

but they're feeling like, okay, I'm really good at this, or I can do this, or I'm earning money for my family by doing this. And also, I feel like I have something inside of me that still needs to be an offering to the world, whether it's a book or putting your art out in the world or hopping on social media in your car and talking to an iPhone and sharing your gift

of teaching other people how to communicate. But getting to where you're at now, I wanna share part of your story and your new book, which is phenomenal, which I've read cover to cover. Thank you. The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More. You talk about, you're a fifth generation attorney.

And at one point, I think it was after law school, you're working in a law firm that your father is working in. All of us, at some piece or part of us, most of us want our parents to be happy or we want our parents to be proud of us. Right. You decided to, that you weren't fulfilled in this law firm and you decided to leave and you had to tell your dad. Yes. You had to tell your dad. You had to tell your dad and that's hard. And I think it was hard for him. Can you share a little bit about that story? And then also, and I want to jump out of my chair about this part. I love then where it ended up today with you and him. There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you.

In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools

and simple steps that bring life changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt

and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you it's time to find out with worthy Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? What would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out.

It's called One on One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more.

It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlema.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. You decided to that you weren't fulfilled in this law firm and you decided to leave and you had to tell your dad. You had to tell your dad and that's hard.

And I think it was hard for him. Can you share a little bit about that story? And then also, and I want to jump out of my chair about this part, I love then where it ended up today with you and him. But this is for everybody at home right now who's just like, they just want to make everyone around them happy, but at the expense of them, maybe not being and doing and fulfilling who they feel they're called to be. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good question. It was painful at the beginning. Those are some of the most emotional, difficult conversations. He's been at that firm for over 35 years. I was been there for maybe six. And I just knew in my heart of hearts I just not I wasn't fulfilled I like I said I felt like I was running with a parachute like I just something was always holding me back I wouldn't be able to express how I want to express I

couldn't really be creative and having the conversation with him of leaving the firm may not sound like a big deal to some people, it was a really big deal. And he I mean almost begged me to stay. I mean because in some sense it was me leaving him. And so it wasn't leaving the firm, it was me leaving him. The ability to talk about cases every day. I'm walking away from that. The things that were heart-wrenching and just felt like a kick in the gut, that it wasn't I was leaving the firm, I was leaving him. And that was really hard to express. And he just would ask, you know, to help me save it. Let's do something different. Get more involved.

And I just would be, I've done that, I've tried, this is my path. And that was really, really difficult. But the way things turn out... How do you react when you're now on, you're doing videos on your cell phone in a truck? At first was he like, or a car, was he like huh? No. How did he react to that? He uh I mean both my parents did not really do social media at all at the time and I didn't really do it either. Yeah. Because at the time Instagram was just take a picture of your latte yeah and swipe put an x-pro filter on it call it today. Yeah. Um and when they first saw it they didn't really understand it because at first I was just

doing it for the law firm. He's like, oh, okay, well, you do that. But for a while, he's been, it's not that he didn't want to talk with me. We have a very close relationship, same with my mom. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people. It was that it was just a sore topic for a while. And when the law firm started doing well and things were starting to roll and I'll just never forget because you started your own I

started my own law firm and all I had I went from having a corner office two paralegals an assistant a whole team that just by myself at a coffee shop with my laptop next to somebody else who was in college, you know, and I just served coffee shops or or borrowed friends back offices. And when I got my own office and I was starting to do well and he called me and he said, well I got a question for you. I said, what's that, dad? He said, you still got room for the old man? And I said, what? He said, yeah, if you want. I mean, you can say no if you want, but I'd love to practice. Son, I don't know how long I'm going to practice,

but for however long I got, I want to do it with you." And I mean, I just boohooed, of course. It makes me want to cry. I haven't met him yet. You love him. And I just, yeah, I couldn't have been any better, meant the world to me. And we get to talk every day. And we get to talk about cases. And it's just, it's great. It's wonderful. I wouldn't trade it for anything Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. So amazing. I think so many of us are scared to Do that cuz we don't let our parents down or we don't all of that and this is like so beautiful Yeah, and then he comes back around and joins you and he's never been happier I mean, he's just he's so happy to practice lies. It's

It's it's just law. It's just awesome. What you thought wasn't going to work out when something turns around and shines even brighter, you can't put that into words. Yeah. You have so many tips, tools, tactical takeaways that people can apply to every part of their life. And I love when you talk about things that you know as a lawyer, like how do you know when someone is lying?

And what do you do when they're lying? And how do you respond? And how do you handle arguments? How do you handle narcissists? How do you handle, I mean, we're gonna dive so deep. I'm so excited about all this. But I want to ask you, you know, with what's happening with the offering you're putting out in the world of teaching people how to communicate. I'm curious for you Jefferson, like what are some

of the traits that you admire most in people who you feel are the best communicators in the world? admire most and people who you feel are the best communicators in the world? Number one would be warmth. And people that you just, you don't even have to talk to them. You can sit in a room and just feel it. And maybe it's their energy, maybe the vibe, maybe it's their spirit, just whatever it is, the frequency that they're putting out into the world calms you. And I find that to be very... it makes you attracted to them, because you like that warmth and that comfort, that when you talk to them, you feel just a little bit calmer. And so people who communicate very well are not only good at being clear and direct and assertive, but they're also emotionally intelligent enough to know when to slow down As things are so busy and we ramp up

But they know that good communication happens in the in the smallest of words the shortest of sentences When someone's allows their warmth to just be do you feel like it's easier to listen to them and be around them? Because I think a lot of people especially women and Feel like oh, I've got it. You know if I'm if I show my warmth, I'm weak I need to you know all the things and And I just think that's kind of powerful and insightful what you just shared is that when you think of the best communicators That there's a warmth. Yeah, well, I think you'd agree you never want to hide your light,

and I mean there's so many opportunities that we have to do that, and it's leaning into it. If people feel like, well, I'm gonna be weak if I'm perceived this way. Just if you go by the how you listen to music, things that are very fast if you go by the how you listen to music things that are very fast affect you it makes your mind race when somebody's talking really really quickly and then you can't really understand what they're saying and they're getting uh ramp up and ramp up that kind of gets you and your anxiety up but people who slow down they show more control it's not the opposite they show more control. It's not the opposite. They show more control, more confidence. When you're adding distance to your communication, you are showing them that you are comfortable exactly where you are. And that also shines on to them to show that and where you are is okay, too.

One thing that you seem so masterful at that I feel like I need to work on more is this idea of pausing and of giving space. And this is gonna be a big thing for everyone listening because when we dive into all the different topics that are gonna affect our lives in so many different ways when we start applying the tools that you share, there's this consistent theme of pause and of space. And I'll never forget the first time I ever gave even a keynote speech, right?

It was like a room of, he was like 10,000 people. And all this stuff was good. It was for Brendan Richard event actually. And it was the first time outside of IT Cosmetics. And it was a long story, but he's like, I have an opening and I'm like, I'm in. And it was this hour spot. And it was the most phenomenal hour.

But every time people cheered, or even stood up and cheered or any of the things, cause it was really fun. And I was just like pouring into them. I didn't know how to pause. The second they started clapping, I didn't know and I just kept talking. And I remember afterwards he came up to me and he says, first of all, he said a million great things, which I'm so grateful for. And then he's like, you need

to learn how to pause and let the audience have their moment. They're excited. They're cheering for you. They're into it. They're so excited that you overcame this huge obstacle. And I was like, huh, I didn't know how to let the pause happen. And what I love is you guys, you give so many examples in your book of ways the pause is so powerful, but just really high level.

This is for everyone listening. I want you to think right now as you're hearing me and Jefferson talk about this. When you're talking with someone, do you ever just pause and let there be space and maybe you're looking at them in the eye or do you start to feel uncomfortable and wanna fill the space with words?

Can you talk about the power, the power of the pause and how right now, everyone at home, different ways you can use just pausing in your communication and how it actually literally helps change your life. Yeah. The pausing is the most powerful tool you can use in communication because it gives you time to choose things. It gives you time to choose is this worth my words? Is this worth my attention? It also gives you a chance to calm your own

emotions, to regulate your emotions. It gives you time to think. And when you're able to pause in conversation, it allows you to show control. If you were to ask me, Jamie, if you said, Jefferson, how was your day? And I immediately said, good. I mean, my day was fine. It was good. It was good. That tells you one thing. If you ask me again, Jefferson, how was your day? And I immediately said, good, I mean, my day was fine. It was good. It was good. That tells you one thing. If you ask me again, Jefferson, how was your day? And I said, it was good. It was good. Very different connotation. What you're telling in the first one is, I didn't really listen to your question. The second pause is kind of clarifying of, I listened to you. When somebody even gives you one second, two seconds of a pause after a question, it tells you that they're

thinking about it and it's allowing you to show that you're actually acknowledging taking it in before you just spit out a response right away. Because we're such in a world of immediacy of texting back right away saying that... Having that clap back as soon as you get it out. And where the real power in communication is, is slowing things down. It's the pause. Because it allows the other people, just like you said, when you're speaking to people and

maybe they clap or they cheer, it's allowing them to contribute to the conversation. I just had a big aha moment, like a big aha moment. I'm ready. At our core, we all just wanna be seen and understood and also feel connection and belonging. And so many people feel so lonely right now. And often, social media can be great in so many ways, but we're lonelier than ever.

And one tip you just gave, I think this is so big, and I wanna say it in the way where it really hit me, is that example you gave, because we all have this happen every day, right? How are you? We go and grab a coffee, and we might ask the person ringing us up, how are you? Or they might ask us, how are you?

And we just default, oh, I'm great, thanks, how are you? Whatever, boom, boom. And we don't even know what we're saying. It's just like autopilot. And yet we're all lonely and we all want more connection. And we're like, why is my husband and I sitting here scrolling our phone and I don't even know how he is. I told him how I was, but I don't think he cared. Like whatever our scenario is or, you know, moms at drop off, or whatever it might be. That example you just gave is so powerful, and it's so relatable, because when someone says,

how are you, and you're like, oh, I'm good, thanks, there's pretty much no connection happening. And when someone says, how are you, and you just pause, and you think about it, and then you say your answer. Maybe it's like, I'm good or whatever it is. That pause instantly tells another person, I see you, you matter to me. I'm giving you my energy and consideration because I care to connect with you over the question you asked me. Yeah, you got it. Holy moly. That is like instant hack to connection with humans. And we're all...

So many of us are just feeling like we're missing that in our lives more and more. I have heard you use the pause in so many different ways. And this is the first time I'm having this big aha over there. Because right now every person listening, every person watching us, right now today they can watch it walk into a coffee shop. They can look at the person sitting next to them in the room right now. Right? They can whatever next time they're interacting with people and someone asks them this or they ask someone else that add this pause in it. Yes. Because then it almost catches someone off guard too

and they realize you're connecting with them. Right. You're connecting with them. Yes, when you're able to ask that question. I'm gonna do this with my husband tonight. You should do it. I'm doing it tonight. I'm doing it tonight.

And I'm gonna do it with my kids actually. I'm gonna do it with my kids too. Well, it's so, what we fall into is instead of living in it, we're just pressing the buttons. Yes. You know, they, Barista asks, how's your day? Oh, it's good, I'm fine. How are you?

Oh, I'm good, I'm fine. I just, we're just pressing buttons. Yes. We're not really living in it. Let me tell you the one trick to making sure that it does work with your kids and with your husband. We want the trick. We want the trick.

And this is what I live by, and I teach this to every one of my clients, and it is this, let your breath be the first word that you say. So where your first word would be of going, no, I'm good, I'm good, you put a breath in its place. And so when you have the minds of a breath being the word, I mean, it's because you're saying something even in that pause, in that breath, in that silence, it might be the absence of words. It's a sigh. I'm sending the message to you without words. It was heavy. It was a load. It was a lot. I mean, and when you have that pause, it's the invitation to connect. So good. So good. Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm already excited for the way everyone is going to share how this impacts their life Yes, like the DMs are gonna come in comments the messages and we're just getting started But that one tool that one tool I'm just thinking about and the ripple effect of that. Yeah

Because as a society, we're really close to bankrupt when it comes to like true just we're really close to bankrupt when it comes to like true just Connection it really is and the thing with communication of what it makes it so important on top of just the pause and that ability to take a moment and Express how you really feel is that what you say? For the vast majority of your life is who you are. That's how people will experience you. That's how people will experience Jamie. That's how people experience Jefferson. It's not by really what you do, though they might see that that act of kindness. It's what you say. When you say, I like that person, you just met them. You say, I like that person. They were nice. What you really

mean is they said nice things. Somebody's rude and you don't like them. Yeah that person's rude. Just means that what you heard is you didn't like. It's not a rude to you. So for the vast majority of your words is what describes who you are to those people. That's what's gonna describe and evaluate your legacy. That's the ripple effect. With your, so you being a fifth generation attorney, your wife, Sierra is an attorney. Yes. And so I would love for all those people at home

who are either in partnerships or friendships where arguing happens. Yeah. Jefferson Fisher, you and your wife being attorneys being phenomenal communicators, right, having sometimes your job depending on it, and then you of course becoming now one of the most well-known communicators in the world, tens of millions of people going to you for this. How do you and your wife argue? And let us in on all the secrets that we all need to be doing differently. Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay. There's so much more coming up in this

episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results,

like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be. Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy,

plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One on One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday

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So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlema.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. How do you and your wife argue? Yeah. And like let us in on all the secrets that we all need to be doing differently.

Are you ready for the tea? Yes. Okay, my wife, no I'm kidding, she's a fantastic communicator. Law really teaches you to be concise and what I like to compare it is I'm a lot slower, she operates a lot faster, but often we have to communicate the same level. You have two kids and you're raising a family and everything, it's a lot. Our arguments are very short and the reason because of that is we operate on this very quick to apologize, very quick to resolve. If you want your argument to be shorter with your spouse, with your partner, with your friend, be quick to apologize. So often it is the continual circular arguments that just tend to roll on forever because you can't really sleep. When you're having that bad

argument with your spouse or a significant other, it keeps you up at night. It begins to live and seep and now you're having to put on an act for your kids when really you're irritated at each other and you want to lash out. Being quick to apologize and quick to resolve, that makes our arguments very short because we're fast to say that's not what I meant or you know I can see how that's how you would take it. I didn't mean it that way or I didn't intend it that way. Whenever you can push out your intentions rather than pushing how they should react, that's a big difference. What I mean by that is, here I am taking the accountability of, I could have done better communicating that,

versus, why would you behave that way? Why would you even behave that way when I said this? Who reacts like that? So when you take the responsibility for being understood, radical things can change. Even if you think they're completely at fault, they don't get it, they should do different, they should do better, but that's gonna go for an argument forever, because I've tried that. So you're saying that you're not saying they're right

by apologizing or by, you know, you're saying, oh wait, maybe I could have communicated that differently. Right. You're doing your part to try to make the argument shorter. There are times when, and again, I'm not pointing to where people are in toxic relationships, you know, people with narcissistic tendencies. Yes, that can be circular and terrible. I'm not saying you should just apologize to apologize. Yeah, what I'm communicating is

Whenever there is a friction in the conversation We make sure that doesn't get heated. In other words, it doesn't combust and turn in the flame It is trying to draw it out by unraveling the knot and going okay. This is how I Understood it. What did you hear? Okay, that's what, all right, that's not what I intended at all. I'm sorry. What I meant to say was X, Y, and Z. So the quicker you can get to that, the better. That's so good. Okay, so this is what I intended. What did you hear? Yes. And then, oh, okay, well, that's not what I intended. Here's this. Right. You know, I want to just share something that I think is so profound because every time

I was growing up, when I knew my parents were arguing, or this or that, you know, they didn't argue much. My parents actually just didn't talk about hard things when they did argue. And I knew that they were. I would go in and I would say, is everything okay? And they're like, absolutely. And you know, they cover it up. And we think we want to protect our kids and hide it.

But if the argument's getting drug out and we're actually hiding it, I read something where children are learning to not trust their own intuition. Because they're saying, is everything OK? We're like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. They know it's not. Yeah, they can sense it.

They sense it. And we're saying, don't trust your senses or your senses are off or something like that. And so the idea of, you know, the stronger you become at communicating and learning how to respond in an argument with someone you love in a way that diffuses it, just has so many ripple effects beyond just that particular thing. So I love that. I want to make sure I tell you, right along with that, So I love that. I want to make sure I tell you, right along with that,

this happened sometime last year with my son, who is now seven. And I got home, long day, suit and tie, and I'm starting to make their lunches for tomorrow. Son asked me, how your day was, Dad? And I said, I was fine, buddy. It was good. It was a good day. How was your day? And I said, I was fine, buddy. It was good. It was good. It was a good day. How was your day? And I'm continuing to make the sandwich. And he doesn't bring it up again. We go

on about dinner and bedtime, bath, everything. I am sitting on his bed for prayers and song. And first thing he asked was, why'd you tell me it was a good day when it wasn't? I kid you not, that is exactly what he said. I said, what did you mean? He said, you didn't say it like it was good. You said it like you were sad. And I mean, it was such a just slap in the face of, I'm never gonna say it was just good again. I need to, he needs to hear that from me,

even when the day has been bad. He needs to hear when it's been tough I mean that that's And it was just this moment of how dare I try to just gloss over the fact of that He needs to know that I have hard days, too And that hit me just like a ton of bricks So yeah, no no hiding from him. Yeah So yeah, no hiding from him. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. You say, I think this is something really, really powerful because a lot of people don't, they don't want to get into argument. A lot of people don't even want to have a conversation, especially if there's like anything hard or difficult or challenging or any of it. And you say that when you align your conversations or your arguments with your personal values, that you're sort of aligned then ahead of time with your goals before you go into it.

Can you explain to us what that means and how we all do it right now, today, in our lives? So values are intrinsic to everybody. What our value is gonna be different than what you value. They might be similar, but we all take it different ways based on how we've been raised. What values do is guide you like a North Star when there's... you don't have any kind of compass. What I do, what I encourage, is that people have conversational values because when you do, decisions become easier.

Take it for example with a company. Your major Fortune 500 companies, like your company, there are ones that have values. And when you have a value, decisions become easier because you don't have to question it. You follow the value. If my value is I only work with clients who align with me, it comes easy.

I don't have to make that decision. I know that that's who I'm going to work with. Same thing in your conversation. So one of my values that I hold dearly is, where there is kindness, I will use it. Where there is room for kindness, I will use it. Doesn't matter what they did, doesn't matter what they caused.

The question is, is there room for kindness? And that comes from my mama. I'd complain about something that someone happened at school, expecting her to buy into the tea. Let's get some, how dare they kind of thing. And what my mom would say is, well, were you kind? I can hear it in my head. She'd say, well, were you kind? And I would always go, I mean, I'm probably not, mom. And she'd go, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was just her thing. And that became my such of value of me of when I'm talking on the phone to an opposing attorney

and he says something snide, I know that he's trying to jab me, is there room for kindness? I'll use it. And I'll say something like, well, you know what, I know you really care for your clients. I know you really care for your clients, Matt, and that really shows. Any way that I can just share a little bit of kindness, I don't have to worry about the next zinger.

I don't have to worry about what can I say to impress them. Is there room for kindness? And that's what I'll do. But I have others. And you feel like that works to your advantage. Every time. Even with a snide attorney on the call. Yes, because the-

They don't mistake it for weakness. Because how they interpret it is going to be how they interpret it. I'm the one that has to be left with it. I'm the one that has to walk away and go home to my family. And if I'm carrying that conversation that I have

with that opposing attorney home, why? They don't deserve that. That's not what that conversation was for. That's not why they said it. And so having these values, another that I love to use is if I can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. If things burn down and don't work out with other people, that's okay.

They'll always still know where I'm at. They always know where to find me. So when you have these ideas in your head of what my value is... Explain that a little bit more. If I could be a bridge, be a lighthouse. Yeah, so let's say you and I have been friends and we have a big fallout. Despite what I say, and I'm really trying to mend this relationship, and I'm really trying to mend this relationship, and it's just not happening. You've written me off, it's not working out, the bridge is really burned.

Well, that's okay, I'm still gonna be a lighthouse. Maybe I'll see you in five years. Maybe I'll see you in 15 years when life has happened to both of us. But I'm not gonna change the light that I'm going to put out into the world just because our bridge was burned. Or the light you wish that of the person.

Yes, absolutely. And so when you have these values and every one of us has a value and that's how you handle your conversations because it allows you to... I don't have to worry about decisions. The values make the decisions for me. Mmm. That's so good. I love that too because I've had to do this I wish I've never had to do this. I had to do this even recently where a friend just oh just like Completely wasn't the friend I thought they were and I think parts of our humaneness want to you know

Tell them all the reasons they're wrong or this or that or all the things. And it's like, I think when you can just be a lighthouse and go, okay, so it's a different friendship than I thought, and I'm just gonna pray for them and love on them. And I feel like what happens then is you meet the vibration also of attracting great friends. Yes. You know, when you... Oh, yeah. And that's your gift. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's where it comes back.

Whenever you send that zinger, that clap back, that sense of, oh man, I just put together the perfect paragraph that's gonna punch them in the mouth. Yeah. It always has a bad aftertaste. Yeah. Always. It may not be right within that moment,

but it'll probably be the next morning. It'll definitely be a week from now. And I mean, the longer it goes, the harder it is to come back together. I even think about that when I see comments online. Someone just like, you know, it can feel like a temporary relief or something when you just, you know, get that hateful comment out or attack someone. But then you're meeting the vibration of that in your life. So it just comes all around you in different areas. So that's so beautiful.

Be the lighthouse, even if you're not the bridge. Even if you're not the bridge. What role does self-worth play in communication with others and with ourself Self-worth matters of who you're listening to It's the question of who are you listening to when it's? Say I have the confidence or I can be assertive or I shouldn't have said that It is the line of who are you listening to in your life? That's driving your Your own value so much of what we put in self-value is a

lie often. It's doubt. We sow a lot of doubt into ourselves, and that can grow over time to where when you get that one comment from a troll, all of a sudden you feel like they're telling you the truth. And really all they're doing is speaking to your doubts. And self-worth is something that you can grow into, and I don't want to say lean into, it's something you step into, because when you can learn how to communicate effectively to stand up for yourself, just a little bit, you have that self-worth. When you can tell somebody no, and it works, you feel excited about it. You feel worthy. And you feel like, hey, I have that self-worth. When you can tell somebody no and it works, you feel excited about it. You feel worthy. Hey, you feel like, hey, I have that within myself. Good job. Okay, now you feel

a little bit better and then you continue to grow in that step by step by step. But self-worth is very much tied to your communication because again, how you communicate is who you are and how you feel about yourself. And how you communicate with yourself, right? Oh, yeah, yes. No doubt, because it's, remember, who are you listening to? Am I listening to my own doubts? People who are negative, say negative things. And people who are positive, say positive things.

It's as simple as that. When you start to doubt yourself, it's because you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity. When you feel anxious, you're listening to your doubts. You're not listening to the positivity. When you feel anxious, you're listening to the anxiety inducing thoughts of what ifs, of what ifs, rather than the comfort in knowing, I knows, I knows, I knows. These are such powerful tools that we can apply to our life right now. Right.

And what I love is they're free. They're free. They're not always easy, but we can get in the habit of them and we can apply them right now. So thank you for these tools. Remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know, because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book,

The Next Conversation. Argue less, talk more. And check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you loved today's episode too, well my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a five star review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe it. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it, and share

it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy.

You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Curlema Show. And here, I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose,

journey toward your calling and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you

say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going

in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com slash resources or click the link in the show notes below.

Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your One on One with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration,

some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at JamieKernLima.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book, you know why? Because it's going to save so many people. It's going to save people. Worthy, your new beautiful book Worthy. Get this book. This book? I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life.

Who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life. I have to tell you. It's powerful. It's happening. It's worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to founder of It Cosmetics, a billion dollar company, by learning how to overcome self-doubt and believe I'm worthy of my hopes and dreams.

And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book Worthy how to believe you are enough and transform your life If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self doubt And know that where you come from or even where you are right now Doesn't determine where you're going, then Worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are

and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the Worthy Movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold and head to worthybook.com now for free gifts, including my five-part course on becoming unstoppable

and my 95 page worthy workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now. Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo. Oh my god. Worthy, you are worthy. This book is going to change lives.

This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength. You can have the confidence. The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's Book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you,

give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's Book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on WorthyBook.com. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute

for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.