The Jamie Kern Lima Show - How to Live Fully & Create the Life of Your Dreams! Secrets to Your Best Life, Love and Business Now w/ Mallory Ervin

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Full Video Available on YouTube @JamieKernLimaOfficial. Are You Ready to believe in YOU?🙌 jamiekernlima.com 👈 Sign up for my FREE Inspirational Newsletter here and you’ll ALSO get special prompt questions to help you grow in your self-worth-building that pair with each episode!🩷  Make sure to click the “Follow” button for the show on your favorite podcast app, so you’ll be the first to get each episode!  ____ Are you living fully right now? Get ready to gain tips and tools on how to live the life of your dreams, even if that might seem like a far away thing right now! My amazing friend Mallory Ervin is on the show today and trust me, she not only talks the talk, she walks the walk!   From turning set-backs in your life, into set-ups for your best days ahead, Mallory shares her hard-earned wisdom that’s helped her go from rock bottom, facing addition and more, to creating the live, the love, the family and the business (multi-million dollar business at that), of her dreams!   How? She’s sharing all the details with you today in this brand new episode you won’t want to miss! So get cozy, grab your favorite blanket, cuddle up in your favorite Living Fully Sweatshirt, get a coffee mug full of your drink of choice (no judgment here) and join me and Mallory as we make our dreams our plans, together! Episode Reflection Questions for YOU: Jamie writes prompt questions each episode to spark revelations in your self-worth journey and help you apply the tools and lessons from each episode into your real life right now. Please make sure you’re signed up for Jamie’s free inspirational newsletter  jamiekernlima.com 👈 Get my new book WORTHY plus FREE Bonus gifts including a 95+ page Worthy Workbook and more at WorthyBook.com  For more resources related to today’s episode, click here https://jamiekernlima.com/show/ for the podcast episode page. Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show  5:10 Overcome Perfectionism 10:35 Authenticity is Your Superpower 20:25 You Are Not Your Achievements 24:41 Attaching Worth To What You “Do” 26:42 Try This 1 Thing TODAY! 30:13 Your Steps Are Ordered It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click Here to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here:  Instagram TikTok Facebook Website —  Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at: jamiekernlima.com  —  Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are!  WORTHY Believe IT

Mallory Irvin is a small town girl turned internet and entrepreneurial superstar. She's a bestselling author and online mega influencer. She's also the founder of Living Fully Co. I'd never felt so worthless in my life. Because you attached worthiness to appearance? 100%. So many people right now listening to us are struggling with perfectionism, Because you attached worthiness to appearance? A hundred percent. So many people right now listening to us are struggling with perfectionism, with people pleasing. Yeah.

How have you gone through that, navigated it, overcome it? The perfectionism almost killed me more than the addiction. It crippled me and it became something that I almost lost my life to. And I ended up in a treatment center for six months of my life. These were prescription medications that were being prescribed to me that I had become dependent on and was taking them in a way that was not prescribed. I just wonder had you not gone through one of the hardest things of your life, addiction and being in recovery for six months and actually being stripped down

to learning to love yourself for who you are, could you be showing up as actually who you are today, having all this success? A zero percent chance. Number one, I wouldn't be alive today. You don't think you would have lived in another eight weeks? I was that close to, like my body was shutting down. What do you say to the person listening right now

who knows it's them right now and no one else in their life does? I want you to not be embarrassed about the things that you went through, especially those things that are dark and a little seedy and feel a little sketchy to you and that you don't wanna say at the PTA meeting, it's me.

It's me too sitting by this beautiful peony arrangement with my face on a book. That is a powerful part of my story because I think that people count themselves out of their dreams because of things like they went through in their past. I want you to remember that this is the face of addiction, that this is my office

and I've got six amazing girls that work for me and my businesses do millions of dollars in revenue and this is my husband and these are my kids and this is what my home looks like. But I also want you to look at my face and remember that like this is the face of addiction. Mallory Urban, welcome to the Jamie Curren Lima Show! Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight

to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernleema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at JamieKernLima.com or in the link in the show notes. Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring.

Jamie Kern Lima. I am so excited today. Mallory Irvin is a small town girl turned internet and entrepreneurial superstar. She grew up on a farm in Kentucky, the oldest of 23 first cousins designated to do big things. And that she is. She's a bestselling author, an online mega influencer through her podcast, YouTube, and social media platforms. She not only inspires millions, she's also the founder of Living Fully Co. where you can get the best sweatshirts on the planet. I happen to be wearing them right now and pretty much every day.

That is what I'm wearing. and her new pajama and lifestyle company called In My Sundays. She is also my dear friend, Mallory Ervin. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. I'm so excited to be on the Jamie Kern Lima show. I'm so honored you're here. I'm so happy to be here. I have, I'm so excited first of all for our conversation because you and I talk for hours and hours

and hours. And I just the way that I feel when I talk with you, the way that I am inspired, the way that we connect. And I just I'm excited to welcome everyone in to this conversation, anyone who needs to feel less alone, more enough, more inspired. And I just wanna ask you, right off the top, so many women struggle with perfectionism and people pleasing.

And I know it's been an obstacle for me, it's been an obstacle for you in your life. And so many people I I think, connect with you through really watching you overcome it, cheering you on through it. Can you talk about your journey? Because so many people right now listening to us are struggling with perfectionism, with people pleasing.

Yeah, how have you gone through that, navigated it, overcome it, all that? Yes, I love that you started with that because of all of the things that happened to me in my life, overcoming that is really one of the biggest obstacles that I had to overcome to get to where I am today because perfectionism is like, you know, it's like a drug.

I was addicted to it. And you said it in my intro, you know, born the oldest of all these cousins, the oldest of all of my siblings. I was destined, I think, to be a perfectionist because I thought I'm here, I'm the example, I'm the oldest. I had this amazing family that I wanted to set a good example for and be all that I could be.

I was born, you know, I was a singer and I had this talent as a young girl and I was on stages, you know, immediately as a six-year-old. And I was really primed to be a perfectionist. And you know, Jamie, it wasn't crippling to me until later in life. You know, I did the Miss Kentucky pageant and the Miss America pageant. And I think pageants really multiply perfectionism

because you are literally standing on a stage and they are judging the way that you look and speak and walk and sing and are. And we signed up for that, you know, which is it just makes anyone that is a perfectionist, it makes them lean into that 10 times more, I think. lean into that 10 times more, I think. But when I really feel like I overcame it was when I went through my crisis point in my life and my low, and it's something that I shared in my book that took me a really long time to share because I was a perfectionist,

because that part of my story, I'd kept quiet for so long. And so I'd gone from this little country girl with big dreams, achieving my dreams, some really big stages, and achieving all that I could as a young person, setting this great example for my family, achieving Miss Kentucky, going to Miss America, being a runner up at Miss America, doing the Amazing Race with my dad three times.

And I'd achieved all these dreams as a young 20-something-year-old. And I started to crumble under the weight of that because I just felt like as a perfectionist, I had to be this certain type of person and I had to outdo like everything that I had done in my life or else people are going to be disappointed in me. And I was disappointed in myself. And I had this point in my life where I started to have, um, dependence on prescription medication that a doctor I started to have dependence on prescription medication, that a doctor

had started to prescribe me so that I could kind of keep going at this pace, this furious pace of life, keep achieving and doing and doing more. And it crippled me and it became something that I almost lost my life to. And I ended up in a treatment center for six months of my life, you know, after I just walked off the Miss America stage, you know, doing all of these wonderful things. And if you had told me when I was standing on that stage, is this shiny, shiniest version of myself,

that that was where I would end up in a few years, I would have said there's no, there's no way, there's no path to that. But perfectionism is certainly a path to that. And it's something that I couldn't outrun, I couldn't keep up with. And it held me back in so many aspects of my life. It kept me in a cage. And what I experienced in going through treatment,

because, you know, it's never the drugs and alcohol, you know, and treatment is always what's underneath that that got you there in the first place. And when we started digging up all of that, like, why do you feel like this? And why do you feel you have to be this version of yourself? And what if you showed up as your real, authentic, true self? You know, what would that look like and feel like and be like? And I emerged six months later as the most pure, authentic, non-perfectionistic version of myself. And that's when Living Fully, which is my whole message, it's what my book is called and my podcast is called,

and everything that I talk about, just like you talk about worthiness and believing in yourself, I talk about living fully. And to live the fullest life, I could no longer live as a perfectionist no longer live as a perfectionist. Because you hold yourself back from, from so much when you live like that. And so, you know, how I overcame it is maybe different than a lot of people. You know, you may not have to go through an addiction or a crisis, but like it's making a decision that, A, it's the realization that like, people don't even love the perfect version of you more than they would love the authentic version of you. Isn't that true?

I learned that after showing up as the authentic version of myself, you know, your moment was taking that, that's the first time that I saw Jamie, was taking that makeup off on QBC and like showing your skin. I can still remember the reaction that I had to that. And I saw as a person online when I started showing up truly authentically, talking about the good stuff and talking about the bad stuff, showing up with no makeup and my hair wasn't brushed yet and talking about the things that I struggled with and the non-perfect parts of myself.

That's when people liked me more. Yeah, this is really, really big when you, what you just said, cause we kind of, it's so easy to believe the lie, oh, I've got to be perfect to be loved. Or, and for a lot of us, I've got to be perfect to love loved. Or, and for a lot of us, I've got to be perfect to love myself. To love myself.

Right? And in both cases, you're actually, when you talk about living fully, you're actually living a lot less fully when you're trying to be perfect, because you're not being all of who you are and who you truly are. And you experienced this firsthand.

How in that six months in treatment, how did you get to the point where you did the work on perfectionism and what are some of the things that you kind of maybe either had to learn or unlearn, I guess, in that journey? Yeah, that's a great question. Because so when I first went to treatment,

I was still so delusional that there was an issue at all, that I thought when I showed up that day, and luckily like my parents were the ones that facilitated, like there is an issue here. We don't know, because we've never experienced addiction as a family. So they were Googling and asking and trying to figure out and we were kind of like throwing a Hail Mary of like is this the issue? Like what is the problem? Because it just

looked so different for me. I wasn't out on the street doing drugs. These were prescription medications that were being prescribed to me that I had become dependent on and was taking them in a way that was not prescribed. But I was still so delusional when I showed up because I felt like I still had everything together in my life, even though I really didn't, because it kind of looked that way on the outside. And I thought, okay, I'll show up to this place

and they're gonna turn me away and be like, well, she doesn't need to be here. Not only did they very quickly realize I need to be there, but I did my 30 days there, because most people, they'll do 30 days of treatment. And at the end of 30 days, you've gone through withdrawals and all the things that you need to go through,

that your body needs to go through. And I thought after 30 days, I would be pretty good to go and they would send me home. And I thought, as the steel perfectionist that I was, I was like, well, great, this will give me a little bit of street cred and I can write a book about it one day. And like, this is going to be great for the future of me.

It's OK, this blip on the radar. And my parents came in and we sat down with my counselor and they said, we don't feel like you're finished with the work here. We are recommending extended care for you, which was three months that they wanted me to stay there longer. And I was floored by that because I had seen people that had come in that were literally on the streets using heroin and things that I thought in my perfect perfectionistic mind were worse than what I was doing.

I was comparing myself to other people and being like, well, they're certainly going to let me out. Like they're not even keeping these people. And they kept me the longest. And it was in that three months that turned into almost five months that I did the work on uncovering what was underneath and why I'd become the person that I'd become and why I was using these things like I was using. And you know, they did something really crazy kind of with me.

They're very individualistic at the place that I went in their approach to how they help people overcome their addictions and the things that they need to overcome that was underneath their addictions. And something that they did with me, I clearly, you know, coming from pageants and caring a lot about my appearance and what I looked like, I had had these long blonde hair extensions,

like, my whole life. I'd never gone a day without hair extensions and full makeup. And I remember they, I'd been in extended care for a few weeks and they said well you're doing really well So we're gonna let you have a hair appointment Because I had had I have dark hair naturally and my dark roots were growing out and all these extensions were starting to fall I was literally physically starting to fall apart And I was like, oh amazing awesome

starting to fall apart. And I was like, oh, amazing. Awesome. So I did all my things, filled out all my forms, and this big van, white van pulls up with our treatment facility name on the side, and they drive me to the hair salon. And I opened my book with this story because it was very transformative in the work

that I did there. And this story may sound kind of silly to people, but it was one of the most life-shifting things that's ever happened to me in my life. And what happened was I walked into this hair salon and they were gonna take my hair extensions out because they were halfway falling out. And, you know, for 10 years,

I'd never had them out of my head. And I don't think I really thought about that. And so they took all these extensions out of my head. And I don't think I really thought about that. And so they took all these extensions out of my hair and I was faced backwards, so I wasn't faced towards the mirror. So they did that first before they were getting ready to color my hair. And I can still remember there was a silver tray next to me. And I can remember seeing her take these permanent extensions out of my hair and putting them on this silver tray beside me. And when she turned my chair around and I looked in the mirror, I had an out of body experience and my life flashed before my eyes. Really? It was very bizarre. And I was so emotional that my my hair, that my hair was out.

My hair was like two inches long underneath that. It was all different colors because I had two inches of dark roots and it was, and I had just never seen myself like that. And I think also just everything that I'd gone through, I was a different version of the person that I'd expected to become. And it was so emotional and so visceral, this reaction that I had. And then she went on to say, okay, now we're going to color your roots. And I was already having this moment. I was like, okay.

So she colored my hair and it ended up not going well. And so it was like orange and white stripes and it was two inches long. And it was, then she had to cut it. And I got back in the white van and they drove me back to the treatment center and I walked straight into my counselor. And I said, I know you guys think you know what you're doing with me and with my case. And I know you guys know, think you know what you're doing with me, but you don't because now I feel worthless.

I've never felt the way that I've felt about myself. Now I want to go out on the streets and do the hard drugs. I don't even want to like live anymore because I felt so terrible about myself. And I was like, I want to go home. And I almost left treatment that day because it was such a, I'd never felt so worthless in my life over them taking out my hair extensions.

Is that because you attached worthiness to appearance? 100%. It was the first part of my shell that they were cracking. And I didn't even realize, Jamie, that I was so attached to my parents because I'd never been like attached to my parents growing up. I was never like the prettiest one in the room. I was always, I always had a talent and that's always kind of what I stood on and pageants and like things around my looks was never even anything that was in my future. I really wanted to be a representative for my state and I knew talent was 35% of the score at Miss America. I mean, I'm five feet tall. Like I didn't ever think I was going to do a pageant. But I think that something

changed in me that year when they started talking about, because it's essentially like, you know, what our parents called him is beauty queens, you know, we were beauty queens. And I think that I had started to really become attached to my appearance and to the person that I was. And that was the first real tick away at that. And it was like such, when I tell you, like my whole body felt something. And I was so, I'd never felt that worthless.

And I think I share this story because, and I was afraid to open my book with this because I was like, I don't want women reading this and be like, oh really, I can't connect with you. Like you had that moment over your hair extensions. Like I've gone through actual trauma. That was actually like that big of a low point for me. And I think that so many women attach our self-worth to our appearance.

And as we start to age and as we can't really control what we look like and we start looking different, and I think people don't know what's happening to them. And I didn't know that I was becoming that attached to that until they took that away from me. And that was the first thing that they did for me. I say for me now, but like back then, I thought it was the worst thing that they did to me back in treatment. But it was truly the thing that like, it revealed to me something that was really crippling me. And we started to work through it. And then it was about a month later and, you know, okay, I've gotten used to the hair extensions being out.

Now I'm not as attached to my parents, but I was still singing at this little chapel that we had where everybody's families would kind of come. And it was just this moment where I could set myself apart from people because I still was able to show my talent and be like, okay, yes, here I am in rehab and here I am looking like this different than I've ever looked before. And I also gained 30 pounds

in treatment. So I felt overweight and like all of these things. And I'd kind of become okay with that. And they said to me again, they said, you're going to take a break from singing and chapel. singing and chapel. And that was really another shift for me because then I had nothing. I felt so average and like everyone else and like I looked different and I was different. And I was like, now you're going to tell me, I can't talk about being anything that I'd done Miss Kentucky or Miss America or The Amazing Race. You know what's funny too is my third season of Amazing Race was airing while I was in treatment. And they let us watch TV on Sunday nights and they would turn on TV and like there I was and they would like turn it off or they would turn the channel because they like they didn't want me

to talk about they wouldn't let me cling to that old self because they were doing so much work of stripping that away and showing me what was underneath it and making me okay with what was underneath it. And when they told me- Like you are not your achievements. You are not your appearance. You are not your, do I have something different than everyone else?

But like, how do you believe you are enough exactly as you are without these other things? Because I had the self-confidence. I believed that I was enough, even going through what I was going through in treatment, when I could still say to people, but I did this and listen to me sing. And you know, it was the last little shred of my old self and my shiny shield that I was holding out to other people. And they really knew what they were doing with me because that's when I really did the real work because I had nothing left. And I just felt what I think a lot of women feel their whole lives

for the first time. I felt that. And I didn't wanna live like that. And they taught me in three months of work that I did, I loved the person underneath that without all of those things, more than I loved the person that I went into treatment as. With all of those accolades and achievements and achieving all of those accolades and achievements and achieving all of those dreams. I walked out of there, you know, 35 pounds heavier with two inch long hair,

not talking about any of the stuff that I'd done, not singing in the chapel, not, and I loved that. That was the closest to the person that I want to be than I've ever been in my life was take was without all of those things. This is huge. I think so many of us and so many people listening think that to be enough, they need their career. But who are you without your career? Or they need to be so-and-so's mom, or this accomplishment, or this this thing or this contribution. Equally, there are people that think I have to give and give and give

and people please and give and serve and that's beautiful. And also who are you without all that? And just to kind of hopefully for this to hit home for everyone listening, because you're talking about almost learning to feel more fulfilled, learning to not ident, not not wrap your identity in any of those things, whether it's your accomplishment or what you're known for or needing to stand out and be different from others or needing to look a certain way. And that when everything was stripped away and you literally were at your lowest point,

then learning to love yourself innately for the innate, beautiful soul that you are, is how you actually then started to become your most fulfilled. Yes, it is. And you know what was really hard about it and why I think I lived that way for so long? It's really hard when the thing that you're attached to is seen as a positive thing. Right. A talent. Or being Miss Kentucky and representing my state.

Because we're in a world where everyone believes the same thing about themselves. That if they can only achieve that or look a certain way, then they'll finally be enough. Then they'll finally be happy. So everyone's believing the same lie. So then they're congratulating you for getting closer to that lie. Yeah, and we're in this kind of like whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's why for decades in my life I thought, oh, if I achieve enough, then I'll feel enough. If I'm pleased enough other people, then I'll finally feel enough. And I lost decades of my life just achieving, achieving, or trying to make everyone else happy. And no matter how many people I made happy, I still felt like something's missing, like I'm not enough. And it's this. And then I thought, well, I just need to achieve more. I need to just make more people happy. And it's never felt, you never have. Perpetual cycle to nowhere.

It is a perpetual cycle to nowhere. I love that. And you know, I can even remember Jamie, like when I, even after, when you're Miss Kentucky, you walk into the room and you got a crown and banner on, you don't even have to like, that's the worst thing for a perfectionist because it's like, oh, you don't know who I am. Here you go, right here on the banner.

Like, look, here I am, the queen. I used to introduce myself to people. And this is the first clue to feeling probably unworthy. I needed them to know in the first minute and a half that I had done Miss America and the Amazing Race. And I needed them to know those things because I felt like that was the reason that they would want to continue the conversation for me. I didn't feel like enough, you know, just being me and showing up.

And I just had to have them know those types of things, especially as I got further and further from those things that I saw as big shiny dreams. As I stopped achieving bigger things, I just started to feel worse and worse about myself. And just I was so disappointed in myself. And I just, I felt like so many people were disappointed in me for not doing bigger and bigger and bigger things. So when I would be just talking to you,

if you and I were in a room, I would need to tell you all of those things about myself because of the lie that the world tells us. But I really believed that lie. I think this is such a big challenge for every single one of us to even today have a conversation with someone, maybe someone you don't know yet, in the coffee shop, wherever, and try to not tell them any of the things about you that make you feel enough. Like, oh, my child is this, or I'm, you know, this is my partner or or this is and actually just

try to just be you without sharing any of those things for most of us it's really hard really really hard and it's almost like this baby step toward worthiness which is just like to learn to first believe that we are enough innately because we are we are All those other things are like distractions that make us think we're not actually. But just like try to have a conversation without saying what you do without, and try to have a conversation with another person

without asking them about all the external things. It is so impossibly hard. Yeah, a baby step to worthiness, I love that. I did this program in Nashville called OnSite. It's like a little, you know, three day program. It's just like this cool, transformative, like very like cool thing where it's called, what's it called?

Living centered. Living centered. I was like centering something. I should have remembered the living one. And that's a big thing there. They were like, don't, you can't say what you do. Yes. And it was really, really hard. And were like, you can't say what you do. Yes. And it was really, really hard.

And I'd already been through all of this stuff. Like, and I already kind of felt good in my skin, even without people. And it was still really hard. It was hard too, not to ask other people what they did. And I'm like, why do we qualify? Yes. Each other.

So still on site, anyone listening or watching or hasn't heard of this, on-site workshops in Nashville, Tennessee, and then there's a place in San Diego called the Oaks. Oh, yes. I haven't been to the Oaks, but, oh, but we love them. And I did on-site as well. They have so many different... They actually have treatment and recovery programs,

and then they also have, like, leadership development and trauma therapy. Yes. And I went there for a week and it was life changing. It was marriage changing, life changing. And I remember that so well. What Mallory is talking about is they, you're there with 50 other people and they put you in small groups, but, or you could do individuals if you want, but you're not allowed to say what you do and you're not allowed to ask anyone else what you do.

And when I went, it was for a week. And it was the most... And it's wild how your brain starts to start guessing what someone does. And to not identify with those things, it's so powerful because you can just exhale and not identify with those things. But it's also just weird not to ask somebody. It feels weird. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, Yeah, it's where our brain goes automatically. Yeah. Like, Yes. And I wish that it didn't, but it just does. It is our nature to go back to that, to go back to that, to go back.

Because it's very, it tells you a lot about a person, but it's like, why can we not just learn the person from talking to them? And feel enough as who we are just to have a conversation. And I think that is, is really powerful that you didn't like necessarily know you wanted to or needed to do that work, but what a gift that that happened in treatment. They knew what they, they really knew what they were doing with my case. Yeah. Because the perfectionism almost killed me more than the addiction. And you know, it's wild. I always believe in

full circle moments. I always believe our steps are ordered. Like when I waitress to Denny's and the kitchen was a disaster, they could not get pancakes out on time. Customers would leave. I'd get no tip. There were so many things that happened. And I loved waitressing, but I learned this lesson that many years later, when I launched a company, I'm like, we've got to get the operations right.

If the operations aren't right, nothing else matters. And I just like, I can look back at these different experiences. And I'm just thinking of you and your life right now and how you impact millions, millions of women, literally, and people, but millions of women turn to you every day for friendship, for hope, for inspiration. They support your businesses.

And I think one of the biggest reasons, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, if you agree with this or not, but one of the biggest reasons, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, if you agree with this or not, but one of the biggest reasons, not just that your products are phenomenal, like you know I love them, but that you fully show up the good parts, the bad parts, the messy parts,

the really, really real parts, and people connect with you for that. And I just wonder, had you not gone through one of the hardest things of your life, addiction and being in recovery for six months and actually being stripped down to learning to love yourself for who you are, could you be showing up as actually who you are today having all this success? A 0% chance. Number one, I wouldn't be alive today.

That's how low of a point I was at and how bad it was for me. I do not think I would have lived another eight weeks. I really don't. So like, I think it really saved my life. Really? How do you not change treatment? 100 percent. You don't think you would have lived another eight weeks? I was that close to, like my body was shutting down.

And I, it saved my life, which, you know, recovery saves people's life first, but then it changes people's lives. And then it gives them a whole new life. And you know, if you had asked me before 2014, when I walked into that treatment center, you know, what's the best thing that ever happened to you in my life, in your life? And I would talk to you about being on the Miss America stage. And I'll talk to you about like the moment that I was crowned Miss Kentucky, I wanted to win so bad. And the moment they put

that crown on my head, it changed my whole life. That was my moment. That was my like, taking your makeup off on QVC finally moment. That was my moment. When they my like taking your makeup off on QVC finally moment. That was my moment. When they placed that crown on my head, changed my whole life. I said on my last day of treatment, you stand up and you say something. That was the best thing that ever happened to me. That was the best thing that ever happened to me in my life was going to a treatment center. That was the best thing that ever happened to me. And I always thought it would be a part of my story

that I was embarrassed about and that I wouldn't share. And that I would just like let stay in the shadows. I would be thankful for it because it saved my life. But like, I wouldn't really talk about it. I would just keep moving forward in this great life that I have, really grateful that I'd been blessed enough to have my life saved. But it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And I thought it would be the

worst thing that ever happened to me. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And whenever people come to Instagram or YouTube or a podcast and they see me or the Jamie Carey Lima Worthy event in my feather blazer. And when they see me showing up joy-filled and happy with three kids, and you see my peony garden in the backyard, and you see the sweatshirts and the pajamas, I want them to remember that I spent six months in a treatment center. Because I think that when we think of people that have stories that have a dark part or like, well, you know, she was addicted to drugs at one point in time. I think that we just, it just, it's a kink in the armor.

And I want you to, I want you to remember that this is the face of addiction, that this is my office and I've got six amazing girls that work for me and my businesses do millions of dollars in revenue and this is my husband and these are my kids and this is what my home looks like. But I also want you to look at my face and remember that, like, this is the face of addiction. It's not someone that's on the streets with needles laying

there, this homeless person. It's not somebody that's strung out that, like, you're saying, oh, poor, pitiful them. It's me. It's me, too, sitting by this beautiful peony arrangement with my face on a book. That is a powerful part of my story because I think that people count themselves out of their dreams because of things that like they went through in their past.

And I want you to not be embarrassed about the things that you went through, especially those things that are dark and a little seedy and feel a little sketchy to you and that you don't want to say at the PTA meeting, I want to keep reminding people that that's part of my story because I still feel worthy of the things that I have today, even though like I went to rehab after I wore the Miss Kentucky crown. What do you say to the person listening right now who knows it's them right now and no one

else in their life does? I was that person. I was very isolated and oftentimes at the end of addiction and your addiction piece can be something different. It can be a mental health challenge. Maybe you're dealing with severe depression or maybe you are in a relationship that's really bad that you know you need to be out of. Maybe you're in like a dead end career and you just feel like hopeless about your life. And if you, A, if you're at that

point in your life, I want to say, this is going to be a really weird thing for me to say, especially to that person in this state, but I want to say it because I believe it. Get excited because rock bottom is the best place to build the most incredible life. And if you can walk out of this and if you can get through this thing, you will have one million times better of a life than you did before you went through this thing. These things, these terrible, terrible things that happened to us in our life, in our lives, usher us into the greatest life than you can ever imagine. And I think, Jamie, you cannot access the incredible life that like, I feel like I'm leading right now, this incredible life. I couldn't have accessed that had I not gone through that. So if you're a person that nobody knows what you're going through

right now and you're sitting there and you're thinking, I feel totally hopeless. I hate my life. Maybe you're like I was, I'm not going to live another six weeks. I will physically die. If you can have the strength and the courage to make it through this and walk through this, you can access the most incredible life that you cannot imagine the life that you can access. But you oftentimes have to be the person. I was very lucky to have my parents and people on the outside see that there was something wrong and they stepped in.

But sometimes, Jamie, people don't have that person. And sometimes people have to be the person that chooses to walk into this fire. And it is the most daunting thing ever to think about walking into a treatment center or approaching a person about help, because there is a hard part that you have to walk through to access that beautiful life on the other side. But my Lord, if I can just scream one thing from the rooftops till the end of my life, it would be in a way like you are the lucky one. Because if you have that sort of low, you can have this sort of life on the other side. And it's only accessible through going through the blazing fire that is walking through addiction or walking through leaving an abusive relationship or walking through a really scary career change

or a complete reinvention. What you get on the other side is so amazing. So I would say to that person, like, remember what's on the other side. Don't just think about the pain and the hard stuff and the embarrassment and all that stuff, because that's, that's all going to be in the middle. But I want you to think of the other side because it's, it is so awesome. It is so awesome. And it is the reality.

If you walk into any AA meeting, if you talk to anybody, like, look at all the people that we look up to and that you've already had on the Jamie Kern Lima show, the Oprahs and the Ed Milets and the Robin Roberts. Every single one of them has a story of walking through the fire. Every single one of them. I think when we're in it, you know, so many people, first of all, there's so many different types of addiction. I think if you're, you know, in a situation where you're privileged enough to be able to find treatment and enter it, even then so many people feel so much shame around it. They want to hide. They don't want anyone to know they're addicted.

They worry about that. And I know you, you know, being the oldest of 23 cousins, having all these external accomplishments, having a family that, you know, is so legacy focused and proud and all of these things and, and you dealing with perfectionism. What would you say just to the person? I think Mallory, where you're at now to kind of show that like what you're part of what you're saying is that, you know, yeah, you might go through embarrassment.

Yeah, you might feel shame right now. Yeah, you might be hiding it. But would you say your deepest sense of connection and respect from others and joy and, and all the most beautiful things awaits you on the other side? Oh, I'm so glad that you said that. Yeah. Yes. That is a fact. That is a fact that we talk about that people love you the most for your authentic self and all of these things over and over.

But I want to tell you the story of what, how I told my family essentially and what I was met with. So, okay, we grew up on this farm, so my grandparents are in the middle and we're all surrounding them on this big, beautiful piece of property. My whole life I was an example to these people and I was the singer. I was gonna say, you're the hero.

You're the one everyone says, that's our Mallory. There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not gonna wanna miss it, but first I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and

Transform Your Life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing

you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out.

It's called One on One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning. It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more.

It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at JamieKernLima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. You're the hero. You're the one everyone says, that's our Mallory. Yes. They were proud of me. And I was a good example in every single category, Jamie.

You want to talk about academics? I was valedictorian in my class. You want to talk about like, you know, singing? I was on every single stage in our hometown and then like national. They were just so proud. They were just so proud of me. I'm proud of people coming up to you. You're a role model for our kids.

Yes. They said the night of Miss America, you could walk out on your back porch, it's a farming community, and that it's a live show, and obviously you see the contestant going from the next level to the next level. They said that you could hear from across the cornfields, you could hear people screaming and cheering, and my whole town supported me, not just my family.

But my family, I have an incredible, amazing family that has always been very legacy focused. Why are you here and what are we doing in the world? And we can change the world. And like, you know, we did this thing where we would come together once a year. We would come together quarterly and like have meetings and stuff, but once a year and we would come. And even though we lived on the same farm, we would go on this like trip together and we would all go to this place, we would come together quarterly and have meetings and stuff, but once a year and we would come and even though we lived on the same farm, we would go on this trip

together and we would all go to this place and we would stay and we would play the same slideshow of my grandparents, our family story and our legacy, what we stand for and how many times my grandpa's entrepreneurial endeavors failed. We all knew this story, but we would retell it and we would come together and we would talk about who we wanted to be in the world and what we were doing in our lives. And we were kids. I was the oldest and they started this when I was in college, but some of my cousins were five years old and they're talking about legacy and how do you want to show up in the world?

That's what kind of family I came from. And yeah, we'd heard the stories about my grandpa's failures in the entrepreneurial business, but he always succeeded and he always made it through and he never had to declare bankruptcy. And it was always like, here's our pain point in our family, but like, here we are overcoming. So when I went to treatment, I was very isolated from my family when things were getting really bad.

So I don't think people knew how bad it was getting for me. And so I went to this program and I was about four months into the program or five months into the program when our annual family legacy thing was, trip was. And it was this little like these sets of cabins called Evans Mill, it's in Tennessee. And we would all come together in this great room and we would have different segments where we were talking about different things and

they had decided that What I was gonna do and my my counselors and everything at treatment were like this is gonna be really good for you You should stand up and you should talk about what you're going through to your family and like my family knew that I was in a program. But I had literally never shared a failure or I don't think anyone in our family had ever shared a failure while they were in it, where it wasn't like the, and this is what happened from it and this is on the other side. So I had to stand in front of my family and all my cousins, all my aunts and uncles, our advisors, and all the people that I loved that loved me, and had to tell them what I

was going through and what I was learning in treatment about myself and how I'd gotten there. And I was so nervous to stand up there. It was the first time I'd ever shared any story of failure in front of the people that I loved so much. And I was so afraid that... Not that they would be disappointed in me because I knew the kind of family that I was from and I knew that they would support me in me, because I knew the kind of family that I was from and I knew that they would support me

in whatever I had to go through, because we loved each other deeply. But I did feel like they wouldn't see me as the same, that it would kind of erase all the things that I'd done in my past and that they'd see me a little bit different. So I stood up there, shared everything, and nobody really said anything.

And at the end of it, they all, they clapped for me and they were all clapping and saying, like, we're so proud of you. And I remember my uncle being like, Mel, we're so proud of you. They're all wrestling coaches. And it was like they were cheering me on, you know. We're so proud of you.

And how can we support you as a family? And what can we do better to make it easier on you? And they they loved me and I was on an even higher pedestal to them. Wow. And it was one of those moments that I'll never forget. You always hope that the people around you will accept you for who always hope that the people around you will accept you for who you are and the things that you go through in life. But so often, Jamie, people love you 10 times more

for those things, those failures and those dark things and those, oh, the things are just so tough to bring to the surface. They loved me even more for it. And there have been so many times in my family that we've dealt with hard things since I went through that over 10 years ago. And they come straight to me. And they're like, Hey, Mal, you know, this is going on. And you know, now I'm the person that can help other people. And I don't know why it's human nature to believe that those things will make

people see us in a worse light, in a different light, certainly. And it still is a different light. Because so many times it's proven over and over that people love you so much more for showing up as you are with all of those things in tow on display. And I'm so happy that what happened to me happened to me because I don't know that I ever would have learned that lesson because it's a lesson that I had to be pushed into.

I really admire people who can just own it and show up and be like, I'm going to take this chance and show my real colors. Because I had to be pushed into it because I was really in deep with. Needing to remain the person that I thought I needed to be for everyone else. And I'm really glad that I hit that rock bottom. And I was forced to, through this recovery program. Figure out this truth, because it is truth. It is the truth. And everything in your life right now proves that.

Yeah. Right? You know, a lot of times when we have different types of struggles or different types of addiction and we might solve it in one area, it pops up in another area. Oh yeah, whack-a-mole. You see people that maybe have food addiction and they do something about that, but then all of a sudden, or they find a solution to that and all of a sudden they're gambling or they're shopping.

Yes. or they find a solution to that, now all of a sudden they're gambling or they're shopping. Have you seen, when you went through recovery, have you, has any type of addictive tendencies popped up in other areas of your life, in your journey? Oh yeah, 100%. I struggle still probably today with workaholism. And I think that, like we just said in the beginning of this podcast, it's so hard, because the brands that I'm building are,

it's a motivational, true, like helping women brand, or it's these amazing sweatshirts, or it's these pajamas that like I'm so proud of. And it's all like really good stuff. And I think that I can get addicted to that just like I was addicted to drugs and alcohol. Just like before that, I was addicted to that just like I was addicted to drugs and alcohol. Just like before that, I was addicted to achievement. Just like before that, I was addicted to being a role model and example to my cousins. I certainly think that cross addictions are a real thing. And I think that at the root of all that, it is just accepting ourselves for who we are and where we are.

And I think as a person that like has an addictive personality too, like I'm always looking for that hit somewhere. And sometimes when I achieve something in my work or like something really works out, it can feel the same in my brain. So I think that I know that going through what I went through in recovery, I learned a lot. So I noticed now when those things are happening, when I was unaware before, and I can do something about it, but also think that life is a constant.

We need to be like looking at our lives at all times and being like, what are the things that I need to change? Because it's not just like, okay, I went to treatment. Now I'm good for the rest of my life. Or I worked out one time and now I'm fit. You know, it is a constant, um, that's what living fully, I think, is. It is constantly choosing to, no, I want to live. I don't want to live here. I want to live here. You know, no, I don't want to do, I can do this better. I can be a better parent or be a better person in my business. I can be a better boss. I can be a healthier person. I can do that thing less.

It's a constant re-awareness. And yes, cross addictions are real things. I was actually in treatment with a lady who had been sober for like 20 or 30 years and she was there for a shopping addiction. You know? And she was sober from drugs and alcohol still. And she, and it was a really fascinating thing to see. And I really appreciated her sharing her story because it made me aware that like, you know, when you let go of one thing, it's like you want to grab onto something else. And yeah, I think it's a natural tendency of the human being for sure. What role does faith play in your life? Oh gosh, faith has been at the top of my pyramid in the very worst times in my life and in

the very best times in my life. When I was at the very end of the road with right before I went to treatment, I used to run. I lived on Music Row in Nashville, Tennessee. And the church that I went to was two miles from where I used to live. And I used to say the rosary and I would run, say the rosary all the way to this church. And I would go into this church and there was nobody in this church. And I was really, really struggling. And I couldn't really pinpoint what it was. I didn't see it as like this is addiction, but I felt so hopeless and so far from the

person that I knew I wanted to be. And I was really disappointed in myself and what I'd become after like how I'd been raised and all these things that I'd achieved in my life. I was just really disappointed in what I had become because like I couldn't, I just couldn't, I couldn't achieve anymore. I couldn't keep a job. And I felt like my family was starting to pull away from me because I was like becoming unpleasant to be around. I was just a shell of a person. And I used to go into this church and I would light candles and I would kneel down in front of like the

altar and I would like, I can remember like it would be in the summer because I went to treatment in the spring and I would like press my arms down on the floor. And it was like this marble floor and it was like so cold. And I would just be, I would just say like, I'm sorry. You gave me so much and I'm sorry. I don't know how I got to this point. And will you take it away from me? Will you take it away from me?

Like the need to take this prescription medicine, will you just help me like be the person that I was? And I always thought that like how God would answer that prayer for me would be, I would wake up in the morning and I wouldn't want to take these pills anymore than I knew were destroying my life. And what I realize now is His answer to my prayer was going to that treatment center. But faith was so big for me even then. And faith was a...it was different because I saw God as...I knew he was loving and I knew he was going to be the person that was going to help me make the difference, but I also felt like he had to be disappointed in me too.

Because I knew all the gifts that I'd been given, my singing voice and my family, I knew those were things that he had given me. Those were blessings that I was given. And I really believed what they said, you know, that to whom much is given, of much is required. And I knew that I'd done great things in my life, but I also knew that this was not the way that, like, this was not where I was meant to be, squandering all the gifts that I'd been given, like living my life like this, like isolating myself from my family. And I was so far from the person that I knew I wanted to be. And then I knew that I felt like God wanted me to be. But what I know now, I don't feel like He was ever disappointed in me. I feel like that was part of my journey.

Because where I'm at now and like the book and the podcast and the way that people see me and the face of addiction looking a lot different to a lot of people that watch me on the internet. I know that was all part of the plan. And God ushered me into that part of my story, just like He placed a crown on my head, just like He had me born in Morganfield, Kentucky and living on that little farm being an example to my siblings and cousins working at Bud's Country Corner and being this little country kid. It was all part of my story. And so faith was, I clung to faith then. Faith saved my life, but faith like orchestrated

me into this part of my journey too. And it allowed me to be a story in the back of people's minds when they're going through addiction or when they're struggling with something or when where they're standing in front of a goal and they're like, there's absolutely no way someone like me could achieve that. Because this has happened to me. They can look at me and remember my story and be like, oh my gosh, you know that blonde girl that lives in Nashville, Tennessee on the internet that like, she, I think she went to rehab for six months after she did Miss America. Like I, faith, you know, my faith was everything. My faith saved my life. He answered my prayers. And then now my faith is, you know what I say every single day, I'm so thankful for

my life. I say it to my husband like every day that we wake up in this beautiful home and I look outside and I see this peony garden that I planted and I see this swimming pool and I see these three kids running around the backyard and riding motorcycles. I feel, not because I have to be like, here's a gratitude journal and I want to do gratitude so I can feel abundant, I feel overwhelming, overflowing gratitude every single day for my life. I do every single day and I say to my husband, can you believe it that we got here? Because we also overcame so many things in our relationship. We broke up so many times. He dated me an act of addiction. Like the week that we broke up was the week that things crashed and burned for me. And then I ended up going to treatment. You know,

he saw me at the lowest of the, like, can you believe it? What the Lord has given us? And we've been through different sorts of challenges where we've had to cling to our faith. We've had now five pregnancy losses, and we've been through challenges in our relationship before we got married, and we struggled financially when we first got married. And, you know, there were just so many things that we had to just really trust the Lord. And, like, faith has played so many different roles for me, but I say thank you a lot now. I just say thank you and I can't believe it. And I say a lot because I've been given a lot now and I know that I have a lot. And I pray

the prayer that with all of this abundance that you have given me, do with it what you want me to do with it. Cause I know you gave it to me for a reason. I mean, I look at how much you give and do and are to other people and just how much you give away. And that's the next piece of it. I pray a lot. I want my faith to guide me because he's given me so lot. I want my faith to guide me because he's

given me so much and I want my faith to guide me into like, why did you give me this? Like what is it that you'll have me do with this? That's what my faith is for me now too. Do you ever doubt that God exists? Not one single time in my whole life have I doubted. No, I always knew. Even when I was, I don't want to say frustrated or mad, but like I can still remember sometimes like when hard things would happen. I remember my first pregnancy loss

or like when my sister lost a baby, it was like her miracle baby and she lost a baby and he was five weeks old. There have been times where like, I was at the Vanderbilt Children's Hospital when my sister, it was during COVID that she lost her son. And we knew he had a heart defect

and he would have to have a couple surgeries after he was born. And there are times in my life where, you know, we didn't ever get to, we never got to visit him in the hospital because it was right when COVID started. It was March of 2020. And they would not let us come and be there with them going through this terrible, terrible

thing, their child being on life support. And is he going to make it? Is he not? So we only got to go on the day that we knew they were going to disconnect those machines and we were meeting him. We knew the day that we met him, that that was the day we were saying hello and goodbye all at the same time and there are moments like that i can remember being in that bathroom at vanderbilt children's hospital and i went on to my knees and i was like why in the world would you take a baby because it was just you you know you don't

understand why things that hard to have to happen to people that good. And there are times in my life where I ask him questions like that and like, dang it, like, why in the world would you do this, God? It doesn't make any sense. What's happening right now? I don't see the good in this, and I know you're good. And now it's been four years since that happened, and I can see the reason for that, even though it was really terrible and really hard, but I never doubted that he existed. And Jamie, I feel lucky for that because I feel like ever since I was a child, I'm from

a very faith-filled family, but I always felt the presence of God so strongly and saw so many signs that He existed and just felt that, that I feel like that was a gift that He gave me that I never doubted that He existed. I never doubted that He existed. And I would be around people that really questioned their faith. And I would feel so lucky that I'd always felt that so strongly. And it wasn't like a blind faith. I see some people have a blind faith, just like, this is what I'm told. And this is what I read. And this is what, but I felt it in my bones. Like he knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I felt it. I would always ask for signs and stuff ever since I was a little girl.

And I would have some of the most insane experiences where I just, I knew he existed. And I knew that even of the most insane experiences where I just, I knew he existed. And I knew that even in really hard times, like when I almost lost my life to addiction, when I watched my sister lose a baby, when I went through pregnancy losses, when I went through really hard things in my relationship and in my career, I just, um, I always knew he existed. And then once I started going through hard things and seeing what would happen on the other side and how much greater things would be on the other side and realizing that I

had to go through that thing, then when I was in the middle of these hard things that were happening to me, I could say something that I couldn't say in the beginning, which was sometimes through gritted teeth, but thank you God for what I'm about to go through, because I know it's about to change my life. And I said that, you know, we just lost a pregnancy pretty far along and I had to have a DNC and it was terrible. We'd seen the heartbeat and the baby was fine and, you know, all these things. And it was really hard. And even on the day where we showed up at that sonogram and there was no more heartbeat

and I knew, gosh, I'm going to have to walk this road again. I still, I had faith in God and I remembered the other side of all of those losses that, you know, I lost four babies before I had my daughter. And when I look at my daughter, I would go through every one of those pregnancy losses once a year, every single year to get that child. I would. And I think that loss and hard things that happen in our lives, especially if we can see what happens on the other side, it's so much easier in a way. Losses are always hard and it's still hard to go through terrible things. But you can know that like, God is bringing me something greater on the other side.

He has every single time. He has. So beautiful to have that faith, even when you're going through stuff that does not make sense, doesn't have an explanation for it, nothing anyone else can say. No. And just to have that undeniable faith through it.

Yep, undeniable faith. And you know what, my sister had that too. And she was the one that was like really in it. And I can still remember like after that happened and they took him off of life support and we came back to their house and like they had to walk out of a hospital without a baby. And she sat on her couch and she looked at me

and she said, and I wrote about this in my book too. And it was like so hard to write that chapter, but I was like, I gotta write about this. You know,. And it was like so hard to write that chapter, but I was like, I got to write about this. You know, it's another hard thing that happens that people have happened in their lives. And I want to share this story. And the first thing she said was she looked at me and she hadn't lost her face. She looked at me and she said,

do you feel like he's like a grown up angel or a baby angel in heaven? Like she was still, she, she didn't lose her faith. It was really hard and she was bawling crying and she was upset and she was still, she didn't lose her faith. It was really hard and she was bawling, crying and she was upset and she was sad, but she did not doubt that the Lord was still up there. And then she saw her baby up there. And I think that people's experiences are different at the end of loss because some people are like screaming at God and some people lose their faith. some people are like screaming at God and some people lose their faith. And I think that different people's journeys are different.

And I just hope that they can find their way back to faith that you can, because I do think that like, you can be really angry at what's happening and you can question your faith and, and come back around to it. I think that people's journeys are different. Maybe you don't feel like I did and you haven't always felt the presence of God. But I also feel like this is something that I heard someone say to me when I was a really little girl and I always prayed for it. I had a priest one time and he said, you need to pray for hunger for God. Pray for hunger for God.

And I was like, what an interesting prayer. And I started praying that when I was probably 10 years old. Like I pray for hunger for God and I pray to feel his presence in my life. And I always did. And I think that maybe some people aren't praying that prayer and I think that's a really great prayer to pray. Good one to start. Yeah.

With, does Kyle, your husband Kyle share the same undeniable faith as well? You know, he had a different faith journey. He was raised, so I was raised Catholic by a big Catholic family that always, we were in church every Sunday and it was really solid. He was raised, his mom was Baptist, and his dad was Catholic, and he would alternate churches. And I think he has a really interesting faith perspective because here's what I think. I think it does not matter what religion you are. I think if you believe in something greater than yourself, like it is all, we are all, I think, trying to get to the same place. It's just all different roads. And so he saw something that I didn't have the opportunity to see, which was two like totally different faith walks, because there

is a big difference, you know, in the way that a Catholic mass is said and the way that a Baptist service is. And he, whenever we got married, he made the choice to become Catholic because we wanted to raise our kids in the same church. Because I think that there is beauty in that, but I also think that it is nice to streamline that and to go to the same church on Sunday just as part of a community. But he always says, and I'd had not just my husband, but people that I had dated before whenever I was younger, that always said, your faith has made my faith stronger. And he always says that to me. He's like, the way that I am, and he prays as much or more than I do now. And he prays with our kids as soon as we get in the car on the way to school. And I'll be like, gosh, I haven't been praying with

them lately. I've been forgetting. He's like, I have. We pray on the way to school. Sometimes they pray for their pet turtle that is no longer living that they don't realize. But you know, goofy little things, but like he, it has lifted his faith. Yeah. You're, you have three kids. You're the breadwinner of the family. Yeah. Kyle stays home.

He does. Which for a lot of people believe that's the hardest job on the planet. It's way harder. Way harder. How has that been for you being the breadwinner, both just in your marriage, in what we learn... Societal norms. ...societal norms that some would say are antiquated, but they are still around.

How has that been and how is that... They're they're definitely still around. I think especially to men. And you know what I think? I think God perfectly designed my husband for me because Kyle had a big valet company that he started and owned when we first started dating. He had 80 employees and he had a big business that he had built. And he, when he started to see my success, he, his business, he sold, he backed out, backed out, backed out, backed out of his business, started editing my YouTube videos. And he truly slowly over time, um, he completely gave up his career to be a background role in mine, and then to raise our children so that we could still be very hands on in raising our children.

He is still the one that takes our kids to school every day. He still watches our children, picks our children up, packs their lunches. It's not like I'm working 8 to 9 PM. I'm still around a lot. And they have both of their parents present in their lives, which is such a blessing. But to be a man and to choose that is a really rare and amazing thing. is a really rare and amazing thing. And I think that makes him even more powerful as a husband and a father and a man. And I think it's so cool to think about our kids

talking about one day, you know, in 15 years, well, my mom worked, you know, building this, whatever it is that they talk about, building this pajama brand or selling these holiday sweatshirts that we used to be in the photo shoots and all this stuff. And my dad stayed home with us.

I think that's a really powerful thing for them to see. Cool journey. And we want to believe that we're past this societal norms, but I agree with you, Jamie, we're not because I think a lot of men would not do, a lot of men maybe wouldn't have the opportunity to do what my husband does. Maybe a lot of men would like to stay home with their kids. But I think that it is just such an amazing thing that he gave up everything, just like my mom did raising us.

She never had a career. She never had raising children was her her identity? Was her career? For 20 years of her life or more. But yeah, my husband gave up everything to take a step back and not back, we shouldn't say back, we should say forward and to do the hardest job. And like I do two jobs. So I do all of this stuff. And I'm also like a part-time stay at home parent. Being a stay at home parent is 100 times harder than building a company that's doing 10 million

or a hundred million dollars in revenue. It is harder. It is a harder job. And I'm not just saying that for the pat on the back, for the moms and the dads that do it, it is actually harder. And you also don't know, like, yeah, I see the immediate return on my business.

You don't know how these kids are going to turn out until, for 20 years. So you're like putting in all the work and nobody's saying thank you. You don't even know how it's going to turn out. No one's saying thank you. And ain't nobody paying you, you know? You can beat up every day.

Does it ever with Kyle or just with your marriage, does it ever present any challenges because of traditional... Yes, rarely. But yes. I think that there are times where Kyle looks at the reward of what I'm doing and looks at the reward a little bit of what he's doing. And he's just like, I'll come home from work sometimes. And he's just like, man, it looks so, that's so fun. Like what you were doing.

And he's like, every once in a while, he'll say like, I miss working and I miss building something. And he's like, I know I'll do it again one day, but he misses it. And sometimes like days at the end of the day, and I think that like if you're a working parent that's listening to this and you have a stay at home parent, sometimes whenever I come home and when he's like quiet or he feels like removed or he feels like he's exhausted and he's like not saying anything to me

or maybe he's like short and he's like, I am just overstimulated and totally exhausted from these three kids. I think that that is a challenge that a lot of people, because we're always like, well, what did I do? Cause we're always thinking about ourselves and it's just like, I just want everything to be okay. But like learning that and remembering that,

that it's just a really hard thing that he's doing whenever he's home with the kids. And remembering when I go home that he's had a really long, hard, overstimulated day. Like maybe I have a bad day at work, but it's just like so obvious of what it is. Like this happened and that's why I feel this way. I don't think it is with a stay at home parent.

It's just like, I just feel like all the life that was in me this morning was sucked out by all of these children. I gave it away. I think that that is, that's a challenge and something that I've had to learn and meet with grace and understanding and understand that sometimes his tank is empty at the end of the day. Maybe he doesn't even know why, but it's because of all those children. Yes. Yes. I think if we are blessed and privileged enough

to have a situation where a partner wants to be the stay-at-home parent, you know, I have to tell you, Mallory, in most of my friendships, it's the woman that's working. And their partner's stay at home. Yes. And they would not trade it for anything. Like they love, they love knowing like someone's there,

everything's okay, they can travel, they can like different things like that. And that their kids are in such great hands and things are changing really, really rapidly. You know, but we're still in that in that point where it's typically been a little different in the past. But yeah, every woman I know who has who their partners stay at home, they love it. Yeah. They love it. It's the best situation because you're still being raised by a parent, but like I get to go and build and do

and be, and I also get to come home and be a present parent and like choose my own schedule. And you said a while ago, but it is a privilege to be able to have a parent to stay at home. And that is something we do not take for granted and we don't think as an automatic thing. And also like, that's so interesting that most of your friends are that dynamic. But I also think you, you living in California and in LA and it's a different

world. And in New York, because in Nashville, Tennessee, it is certainly the other way around. I think, I think that, you know, geographically, demographically, it's just different, different places. But I feel like I'm in the minority and I feel very lucky. But you know, there are days that I'll take my kids to the trampoline place because I still am able to work at my own schedule. And I'm so fortunate to do that because I can still play a part-time, stay-at-home mom role. And there's sometimes, Jamie, where it is so funny that I feel like this, but I do, that

we'll go to the trampoline place and I'm sitting there and I'm watching the mom that I know is a full-time stay at home mom that doesn't work. And I watch them like pull the snacks out of the backpack and unzip the things of carrots and pull the juice box out. And I can just tell that that is like her full-time role and that is her, she is so in it. And sometimes I envy that. Um, cause my sister is also pretty much a full-time stay at home parent and she's like, man, it's so fun what you're doing. And I'm like, yeah,

but like you just go to the park every day. Like that's also fun. Sometimes I'm just like, am I doing it wrong? Like you just, I just question it sometimes. Just like Kyle's like, Oh, sometimes I miss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, uh, two things, uh, first, if before, before I asked this question that I just know is going to be so meaningful to every person listening, uh, and it's something that, um, that your grandpa said, uh, but before I get to that that I just want to say to everyone listening, I just have to say and I'm not just bragging on my friend, but even before Mallory and I were good

friends, you make the best sweatshirts in the world on Living Fully Co. Her sweatshirts sell out in minutes, so if you ever want to grab one make sure you're like ahead of it on the sale. I'll link everything in the show. Her pajamas in my Sundays. Her pajamas are better than the most and literally it's proven. She can, how they're made better than the most expensive pajamas in the market. And you're not paying the most expensive price, but they are phenomenal. So I'm going to link those as well.

Mallory and I did a really, really fun sweatshirt collab. But everything sells out in seconds. So if you want to get her sweatshirts, definitely check out. And then, of course, her book Living Fully is amazing and her show as well. Her podcast. So so many things I'm going to link below. But how I would love to kind of wrap this up on is something that when you shared it, it just shook me to my core about this idea that every single one of us, we might have ideas,

we might have goals and dreams. And if we are blessed enough to still have time, how that puts life in perspective. And can you share, I believe it was Christmas day and then the day after Christmas with your grandpa, who he was, what he shared, what he shared that when I heard you share it, just my whole being, I felt it in every ounce of my being. Yeah, he was so amazing.

So he lived in the center of our property. And I grew up seeing my grandpa every day. He was such a big part of my life. He was so amazing. He lived this beautiful, incredible life. He had the hardest life of anyone that I've ever heard. He watched his dad die in a fire in front of him when he was 12 years old.

His siblings, every single one of, almost every single one of them, like he watched pass away. Like just, this just so many terrible things happened to him. And he was the most joy filled, incredible, amazing person that built the most beautiful family that I've ever seen in my entire life. So he was my first example of adversity can just make you stronger and better and brighter and more beautiful. And he, um, so my grandpa, like until the very last moment, he was 89 years old. I think 89 years old when he died.

And Jamie, when you asked me to do the event, whenever I speak, I usually share my story of recovery and over-improvement perfectionism and all this stuff. I had this really, this just gut feeling that I needed to talk about my grandpa. And it was like four weeks after he had died. And my whole team was like, are you sure you're ready to talk about this? And I just felt very compelled. And the piece that you're talking about

that I talked about at the Worthy event was, so Christmas Eve in our family is just this beautiful, big, amazing thing. And he was not doing well this past Christmas Eve. We knew that he was nearing the end and it happened really fast. He was on oxygen almost all the time. He was still in his home and everything, but everybody kept saying, you know, maybe we should just come one family at a time to not put too much stress and strain on him.

And he was like, absolutely not. We're having the party. Because he was still totally like with it, even though he was at the end of his life. And it was just this really incredible Christmas Eve. And we sang and we danced and he drank bourbon and chewed on his cigar in his same chair. And he watched his two generations. And you know what, this 23 thing, 23 keeps coming up with you too. You have 23 chapters in your book,

and he had 23 grandkids and 23 great grandkids when he died in 2023. And we had this incredible Christmas Eve, and on Christmas day, we went across the street, and it was the last time I saw him on Christmas Day. And we, you know, we went over there, and he was just talking about everything. He was asking me about my pajama margins,

and he was asking me the size of my warehouse, and he was telling me all these ideas that he had about these things that I should do with my pajama company, because he was just the ultimate entrepreneur. And he looked at me, and he was just still totally with it. He looked at me and he was just still totally with it. He looked at me and he said, he said, Mel, he's like, gosh, I got so many ideas left in me. He's like, I just don't have any more time.

And, you know, that was such a, the 24 hours that we spent with him, I'll never forget that because he was choosing to just live in the biggest way possible, having his whole family there partying. And even though he was in pain and like it was the end of his life, he wanted to celebrate and to just like do it so big. And even at the end of his life, he wasn't like, he was just sharing ideas with me. And like he knew it was the end of his life. He died like hours later. And he, he still was just so full of life and full of ideas and sharing them. And if you have ideas in you and you're listening to this podcast, like, and that's why I said it at your event, I was like, I want you to remember,

you have the gift of time. You can change your life. Are you addicted? Are you in a terrible relationship? Do you have this billion dollar idea that you're like, oh, I can't do it because of what my high school friends are going to think? Oh my gosh, you still have time, the gift of time, and you can do all these things. And that's something that my grandpa didn't have anymore. And he died with all these ideas still left in him. And what a beautiful thing still to die with ideas left in you.

And you know, I didn't share this because I was like, this will fill two more, but he knew that it was the end for him. He stood up out of his chair, like this was hours after that, and he said, go get mom. And he knew that he died five minutes later. He sat back down in his chair and died five minutes later. Wow. I know. So it's just so, oh, how he imparted the message of living fully to me with his whole life, but especially in the last 24 hours of his life, was epic. And so I'm glad I got to share that on the stage

at the Worthy event, because it's something that I want people to have a fire under them. After you turn this podcast off or stop watching this, you know, if you're watching it. You have the time. You have time. Oh, please change your life. Please like make the moves because like you're worthy of it. Yeah.

And you have the time and the ability and like just do it. And we need your ideas and this world needs your ideas. Mallory Ervin, thank you and I love you. Thank you. Sorry I cried so much during this. Oh, you just bring that out of me, Jamie. But this is just how I feel about these things. So thank you for having me.

Thank you. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful and when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life.

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to persevere on the path to your dreams. You can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com slash resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox from me.

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Jamie's Book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on WorthyBook.com. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note, I'm not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. If you love this episode's insights, this next transformative episode is for you.