The Jamie Kern Lima Show - How to Respond When Someone Hurts Your Feelings, says “I was just joking,” or is Passive-Aggressive w/Jefferson Fisher

Starting point is 00:00:00 Do you know how to respond when someone says to you, I was just joking? But actually, they really hurt your feelings. We've all had someone say something hurtful or passive, aggressive, and then follow it up by, I was just joking. Oh, I was just joking. And today, we're learning the secret tips and tools on how to handle this in a way that helps instead of hurts our relationships. So back by popular demand, communication phenom and trial attorney, Jefferson, Fisher is here to talk with you and me today about how we handle this the right way and

Starting point is 00:00:35 avoid handling it the wrong way and how it impacts all areas of our lives. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth generation award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker. His work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical, social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations and his brand new book called The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More,

Starting point is 00:01:18 is out now. Jefferson says, we can change everything about your life by what you say next. And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his business. legal practice, he got on an airplane. He flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern-Lima Show podcast family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you take two seconds. is to click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on.

Starting point is 00:02:05 It'll help you because you're going to be the very first to get the episodes, and it's going to help the show because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover. And if you leave a five-star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show together, and it truly means so much to me. Jamie Kernelima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kron Lema in their life.

Starting point is 00:02:30 Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima. Jefferson Fisher, welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima show. Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here. I'm so excited you're here. Wow.

Starting point is 00:02:49 What has happened with you, with your advice, with your videos. It has become a phenomenon. Thank you. Very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing. And right now I'm just holding on. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited so much to dive into today. We've all had, we've all had somebody

Starting point is 00:03:09 say something that was like hurtful or passive aggressive. And then they followed up by, I was just joking. And so many of us don't know how to handle that the right way. It can cause issues and friendships and relationships. I know we can handle it wrong or we can handle it right. And so Jefferson, when someone says, you know, I was just joking. Yeah. How do you, process that? How do you handle it? How do you not blow up a relationship or harbor resentment because of it? Yeah. What you don't do is let it go. Because you know so many of us we let it go and will we bury it inside. You got it. But on the outside. You're carrying it. Yeah. They just gave you something to carry as all they did whenever you don't speak up for things like that because they will do it

Starting point is 00:03:57 again. But when you speak it out, and when you call it out, you don't let it go, you're telling them this is not going to fly with me if you do this again. Let me give you some responses to that. I'm just joking. Some of my favorite are one, two, look them just, and this is where a breath comes in the place, right? When you're able to have that conversational breath, you just kind of take a moment. You're saying, hey, look, I'm just joking. It's, then be funnier. Then be funnier. Then be funnier. Another I like is that you need to find new material. Or you need to work on your material. So it all depends on that personality. Even if you were to say, well, then you need to work, let's work on your material. Like that's a very almost humorous way to say, no, that's not

Starting point is 00:04:45 going to fly. Not going to fly. I want to break this down for a second. Because this happens to so many of us all the time. It could be a colleague that says something. It could be our partner. It could be a family member, a friend, another mom at school, whatever, they say something. And then they're like, I was just joking. And then you're like, but were you? And you start thinking about it. And you harbor it. And like you said, you hold on to it. So the first thing you're saying, before you even react, your first reaction is a breath, a conversational breath. Is it worth my time? Is it worth my time? Just take us through that. Take us through. For anyone hearing about this concept for the very first time.

Starting point is 00:05:27 Right. Okay, because this is so powerful, you guys. I don't want you to hear this, but like, okay, take a breath. Got it. No, no, no, no, no. This is like legit, changes the chemistry in your body, gives you your power back, okay, on how you handle situations, whether it's your partner at home or your friend or your, you know, in-law or that person that does not like you, no matter what you do, whatever it is,

Starting point is 00:05:48 the power of a breath right after something like this happens. Can you explain? Yes, absolutely. Okay, for the person hearing this for the very first time. What does that mean? A conversational breath. just injecting breath into your sentence. So let your breath be the first word that you take.

Starting point is 00:06:02 You are using the power of what they call a physiological sigh. And you do it like this. You're ready? You're going to take two seconds in, then one second at the top, and then about six seconds of exhale. And you can do it all just right there, nasal breathing, in your nose. In our nose. Yes.

Starting point is 00:06:18 Two seconds in. One at the top. And then, another one at the top. And then if you can, six seconds, five to six seconds of exhale. And what it's doing is it's giving you the effects of a sigh that's going to calm you down. If you listen to this and you did it with this, I can almost guarantee you feel calmer and more at peace than you did before you did this. And what it does is it injects you with the choice, the choice to understand, is this worth my time, the choice to make sure that is this who I want to give my time to? Is this person worth me getting out of my chair for it to stand my ground?

Starting point is 00:06:59 Who does this person to me? It gives you some time to think about it. Have your analytical side working and I get emotionally flooded in that moment. And what I love about when somebody says, I was just joking, depends on if it's somebody it's a total stranger to you, somebody who is a work associate or somebody who's a friend to you. But it's as easy as saying, oh, it doesn't sound like a joke. it sounds like an issue. That has a different context to it than be funnier,

Starting point is 00:07:29 or let's work on your material. It just depends on who you're talking to. If you're talking to your mother-in-law, you might use, well, let's work on that material, huh? That's a little bit kinder. Or if it's somebody who's being passive, aggressive at working, I was just joking. It didn't sound like a joke,

Starting point is 00:07:46 sounded like an issue. I mean, whenever you were using that, what you're telling them is this, I was just joking stuff. isn't going to fly with me. So don't do it again. That's the message you're sending whenever you call it out like that. But then be funnier.

Starting point is 00:08:03 It packs a punch every time. Okay. And so when we take a deep, we take a conversational breath, two in through our nose, one at the top, and then out for six, it gives us our power so we can make a decision, a thoughtful decision on what we want to say. Right.

Starting point is 00:08:20 Versus just reacting or internalizing it or anything else. And then letting them know. You're saying don't leave it. Like, don't leave it. You want to let them know. Yes. And I love that you're giving us tools to put in our toolbox.

Starting point is 00:08:35 Right. That we can pull them out and we know exactly what to say when somebody says those things. And now when you say that, what happens then if they're like, oh, no, no, no. I was just kidding. Oh, don't take it so seriously. Oh, what if they get defensive? What if, you know, it goes into a. a whole thing or then they just kind of like how how how should you handle it after you tell them

Starting point is 00:09:00 clearly like well get better material yeah yeah or be funnier then yes um how do you handle it then afterwards if they don't know how to handle it yeah are you saying what's the next conversation is that how do you how do you handle it next yes and it's going to depend greatly on context but the biggest thing is when you're making sure you keep that conversational breath and you're staying engaged and your logic side is dialed in and focused in you can get real curious and start asking more questions so if you say then then be funnier and they go well well i mean look sorry i was just doing x y and z and they go okay just i was letting you know it didn't didn't sound like a joke to me you're having that next conversation of is this something that we need to to talk about or

Starting point is 00:09:42 i'm happy to go deeper on this with you often they're going to start just backpedaling no no no no no no no No, no, no. When that happens, you let them go. So it's part of the boundary setting. You're letting them go. You let them know, hey, you, that offense that's around my property here, yeah, you started to step into that. Oh, okay, you didn't mean to.

Starting point is 00:10:01 That's no problem. See you later. And you're just kind of letting them go, but you're not being the attack dog. You're not going crazy and barking everywhere. Is that controlled sense of, I know where my line is, I know where the perimeter is, and now you do too. And now there's so much less likely to keep doing it, right? Because a lot of people just keep doing it over and over and over.

Starting point is 00:10:20 What happens in a group setting? You know, you're around a group of people and somebody does it. And they're like, I was just joking. How do you respond in that moment? Like what are a couple good things to say? And maybe those fit. Like, oh, get better material. Or, you know, what do you do?

Starting point is 00:10:35 What do you say when someone does that? They belittle you or they just say, oh, I was just joking. And you knew that and it was hurtful. and it's in front of everyone else. There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.

Starting point is 00:10:58 You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting

Starting point is 00:11:43 beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step in to the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at Worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? My weekly free inspirational newsletter is packed with tips and tools to help you find out. It's called One-on-One with Jamie and it's delivered right to your inbox each Tuesday morning.

Starting point is 00:12:44 It's a love letter from me to you, from my soul to yours, and I hope it brings you the words and messages you need at just the right moment. Plus, when you're part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign it for free at jamiekernlima.com

Starting point is 00:13:17 or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. What do you say when someone does that, they belittle you or they just say, oh, I was just joking. And you knew that, and it was hurtful and it was in front of everyone else. Well, pausing, like we've, I know we've been talking about is the power of the pause. Not only does the conversational breath control you, it naturally injects a pause into it. And so when somebody says something that's hurtful, it could be as easy as, don't be so sensitive.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Or I was just joking. Or maybe they really said something to a backhand to compliment or they put you down in front of other people. Yeah. Imagine we're at a group setting. There's a lot of people. and maybe you're part of the crowd and somebody says something to me that's hurtful. And instead of going reacting to that,

Starting point is 00:14:14 I can't believe you, oh my gosh, and having this big emotional reaction, you just have that pause that's given by the breath and you just let their words fall to the ground. Now there's just silence. Now everybody feels uncomfortable. So everybody now is going to share.

Starting point is 00:14:31 They're not going to be looking at you. They're going to be looking at the person who said it. Because when you give that pause, or you ask questions of intent, which is deep into what I go into the book on saying things with assertiveness, handling just these specific questions, when you can ask questions like, did you mean to say that out loud? Now the spotlight's not on you. That's right back at them. And so every time they say something hurtful, they're wanting the dopamine. They're wanting that response from you, they feel that control that they get. They're one in that spotlight on you.

Starting point is 00:15:10 Say, hey, everybody. Look at what I just said to so and so. And when you can... And how the time other people laugh. Yes, they do. Right. And when you can let that just fall as if you're, like if you said something that hurtful to me and instead of catching it, Jamie, instead of me catching it and throwing it back, which is what so many people do, they grab onto it. I got to do something with it. I have to hit it back over the net. I have to send it right back to them. Instead of, Instead, you just had the choice, if you throw a pitch, let it go by. There's things called balls and strikes. It's a bad pitch.

Starting point is 00:15:43 You don't got to swing at it. You don't have to hit it back over the net. You just let their words fall to the ground, which allows you to, in that moment, which is given to you by the breath, that pause to say, this is the message you're sending when you pause like that, to say, are you sure that's what you wanted to say? There's a power in just letting their words sit there. Because often when you don't say anything, people will say, they'll go, oh, I mean, what I meant to say was, or they'll apologize before they even say anything. I'm sorry, that was, I shouldn't have said that. The pause says it for you without you having to say anything. But when you use questions of what I call intent or questions of purpose, or were you wanting to embarrass me?

Starting point is 00:16:26 Did you say that to embarrass me? All sudden, spotlight goes, right back to the other person. And now they're going to start feeling the heat. And now now it's the peer pressure that they're going to be feeling of, yeah, you said something you shouldn't have said. Or what I also encourage people to do when you're in that group setting, get the other people involved. And you're using words like, we or did y'all? I'm from Texas, so y'all's going to be what I said. But if somebody says something hurtful, you could easily say, did y'all hear what I heard?

Starting point is 00:16:59 That right there is going to call attention real quickly, not to you, but to the, you. other person. And so I think there is a way that you can use your words to embolden the group, which they're trying to use, to switch over to your side of saying what you just said was not acceptable. Two things that you just said are such good tools because I think we so often just play back. Someone throws that at us, we don't let the ball drop. We think, oh, I've got to hit back. You got to catch it. I got to catch it. I got to swing at it. I got to get it. You know, But then you take it on in you and you're carrying it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:39 And you're saying, let it drop. Yeah. And you take your breath. And then the pause. And this is big. And I know your new book, the next conversation with Jefferson Fisher. Again, so good. I read it cover to cover.

Starting point is 00:17:53 And this idea of the pause is going to, people are going to be hearing this for the first time right now as we say this, as you're talking about it. And it might just seem like, oh, yeah, pause. I get pause. I push pause on the whatever. No, no, no. The pause, I find it personally, Jefferson, I find pausing and just letting there be is one of the hardest things to do.

Starting point is 00:18:15 It is hard. It is one of the hardest things to do, but it is so powerful. It feels so good. Oh my gosh. And also like everyone, okay, so listening to me and Jefferson right now, think about this. When's the last time you had a conversation with somebody or we're in a room with people or in a meeting and there was all of a sudden just like silence or pause?

Starting point is 00:18:32 there almost never is. And when there is med conversation, who-hoo. People listen. They listen. And it's just, and your emotions, even when you look at someone in the eye

Starting point is 00:18:44 and if you're not talking, and it's just like that pause, I mean, it's such a thing. And so you're saying, leverage that. Because this is huge, okay? Because everyone,

Starting point is 00:18:57 and if you're listening to us and you're like, yeah, I have this happen to me all the time. This person said that, that person, and you're taking it on, that's not good. That's not good. And you can start applying this right now by just letting the ball drop,

Starting point is 00:19:13 taking your breath, doing the pause, and then either saying something back, if it's a one-on-one or involving even the group, that sort of like you said, draws that line in the sand, like, you know, that this is your boundary. And then they backpedal. Like that's the thing that happens. That pause?

Starting point is 00:19:33 Right. Because I'm thinking to times whenever that's happening in communications that I've had. And if you just pause, it almost gives that person like, oh, oh, crap. Yeah. And then they start backpedaling and then they almost apologize before it even happened. They start filling in that space for you. Yeah, this is so good because so many people, Jefferson, they keep hitting back. And it becomes this multi-year-long thing.

Starting point is 00:19:58 There's friend groups where, you know, picking on each other sort of. of a thing that just happens, but maybe not everyone likes it. And maybe everyone's taking it on and it hurts them. And they're just burying it. Or it's happening in families. They go to Thanksgiving. They're dreading it because so-and-so is going to do this thing again. And then say they're just joking and da-da-da-da-da-da.

Starting point is 00:20:18 And the next year it's the same. The next year it's the same. These are tools right now that shift the dynamic and give you your power. Oh, yeah. And you always keep it. When somebody's saying something hurtful to you, what's more powerful? Who's the more controlled person? If somebody says something hurtful and I go,

Starting point is 00:20:35 me, what about you? And I throw it right back at them. I come back with that zinger. That's one way. Or they say something hurtful and I let it fall to the ground, putting my breath in place and having that pause

Starting point is 00:20:47 and asking a question like, did you say that to be hurtful? Did you want that to hurt? Now is a totally different dynamic. I have responded to their comment without responding to it. I just asked them to audit what they did. I'm now using my words as a mirror for them,

Starting point is 00:21:08 so they can hear exactly what they said. And this can apply not only in the workplace, but also at home. Like my daughter, she hates for her hair to be combed. Hates it. It's always a fight. But when I was like, Roo, I need you to, it's time to do your hair, and she'd go,

Starting point is 00:21:26 oh, dad, okay. But she knows it's not appropriate behavior. And instead of getting upset, getting mad, I just looked at her and just was silent. Without me saying anything, she goes, sorry. Like, you know what I mean? Like that silence is, I didn't have to do anything. And so often, that's the whole point is just because they threw something at you, you get the entire choice of catching it.

Starting point is 00:21:53 Because what happens is people will catch it and they'll hold on to it for years. Yes. There are people that are listening right now that, that you're holding something that you caught when you were five years old, when you were 10 years old at school. The mean girl at school said this and you are still holding onto it.

Starting point is 00:22:11 There's somebody said some of you in junior high that hurt your feelings, that said something about your hair or your weight or your size, and you've held onto it forever. And the whole point of what we're saying here is the pause of that of knowing where you are to let that go. You don't need to carry any of it. The same power you had to allow you to catch it, you, everybody has the same power

Starting point is 00:22:35 to let it go. So good. So good. And you know, there's going to be so many people who are hearing this for the first time realizing they're still holding that thing in their body. Everybody is. Right? And if we don't learn how to not catch that thing, not catch the ball, let it drop. Yeah. Like it just keeps stacking and stacking. This is so huge. It's so, so good. And it's going to change so many lives today. It already has mine. I'm already thinking about the ways I'm going to apply this right now. I'm so grateful for these tools. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, The Next Conversation. Argue less, talk more.

Starting point is 00:23:25 And check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communification. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you love today's episode too, well, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a five-star review and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it, post it, and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today.

Starting point is 00:23:57 You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. Just thank you so much for joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kernlema show. And here, I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need. Blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here.

Starting point is 00:24:39 You are worthy, you are loved. You are love and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern-Lima Show. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.

Starting point is 00:25:15 And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence

Starting point is 00:25:58 and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com slash resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarlima.com

Starting point is 00:26:45 to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book. You know why?

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The Jamie Kern Lima Show - How to Respond When Someone Hurts Your Feelings, says “I was just joking,” or is Passive-Aggressive w/Jefferson Fisher

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