The Jamie Kern Lima Show - Michelle Obama Reveals All! Life-Changing Lessons on Intuition, Trusting Yourself & Loving Who You Are!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Jamie, you are going so deep. I have never had this in-depth conversation. I've never heard you share things like this before. That time was a blessing. You know, it really was. And that brought us closer, you know. You're killing me. Yeah, I do.

Starting point is 00:00:23 Yeah. If I'm at a loss or any feeling, she comes through. She comes through. That's why I know people are good, you know. This is the worldwide premiere of the First Lady Michelle Obama on the Jamie Kernelima Show. In her new book, The Look, Michelle reveals for the first time ever how she and her team transformed the scrutiny of her public image

Starting point is 00:00:55 into a celebration of self-expression, inclusion, and impact. Everything was being picked apart. And I say this not just because it's me. I think that happens to women in the world. We get reduced to how we look. And when somebody wants to go after us, they take that away from us. Over 80% of girls and women will literally opt out of meaningful activities if they

Starting point is 00:01:21 don't like how they look. Over 90% of girls and women don't like their bodies. And when I think about what has this cost us, heels. I mean, you think about what we are tiptoeing around life, looking a certain way. And action. There's nothing practical about working in a pair of heels and nylons. Yes. There's no one on this planet that can say that that's what I would wake up and choose.

Starting point is 00:01:55 If I'm really going to focus on the job. If we spend 20 minutes a day on something and live to be over 70, that's one year of our life we give it. So if we're scrolling Instagram for 20 minutes a day or if we're figuring out what we're wearing or 20 minutes extra on our hair, whatever it might be, a year of our life. And for a lot of us, it's way more than 20 minutes a day. I do not want corporate America. I don't want men or politicians in our business, you know, setting standards for us by how, we should look and feel when they have no idea what it means for us, how much time we're wasting, how much time we could be using working on an issue or finishing a project or getting something

Starting point is 00:02:36 done. Men aren't held to that standard. A handsome man could be fat, tall, pot belly, six-pack, balding, gray, you know, a bearded knot. There's so many options for how men can look. But there's one definition and it's just so sad to see so many young girls altering their appearance trying to fit into these narrow definitions, nose jobs and Botox and lip fillers and all slowly but surely we are all trying to look like just one or five people. Yes. And the work that it takes to take yourself out of your natural state of being and to become something totally different, it is psychological.

Starting point is 00:03:25 psychologically damaging, it is physically exhausting, and it is financially ruining for so many of us. But we as women are sometimes the most judgmental of one another and of ourselves. We are hard on ourselves. Our mothers are hard on their daughters. And sometimes it's done in all good nature. They just want the best for us. I want you to have opportunity. I want you to find love. I want you to be accepted all the while we are crushing the true spirit of girls and women. Yes. Do you now ever feel unworthy?

Starting point is 00:04:16 We're all dealing with some level of insecurity. Right now, in this moment, do you feel beautiful? When you make big decisions, even the very first decision ever for Barack to win for presidency, he deferred to you. Is prayer involved? Is you get still and meditate? Do you typically just know instantly? Do you ever second guess yourself? Fear was really at the core of me wanting to say no.

Starting point is 00:04:41 And I had to ask myself then and there, did I want to live my life running from something? Is there anything you fear now? I fear for our country. I fear for what division and mistrust can lead to. I fear that we aren't seeing each other anymore, that we aren't operating with sufficient empathy towards one another. I just fear that we don't give one another the benefit of the doubt. And I've seen what that kind of fear can do.

Starting point is 00:05:22 do. My platform is to reach as many people as possible and to get us back in a conversation about us as people and ourselves and to, you know, remember our humanity and to work on our own forgiveness. I know there is power in that. This work, this work that you're doing, these conversations, Jamie, there's power in that. And I remember the moment of at John McCain's funeral, where George W. Bush hands you, what everyone thought was candy as a cop-drop. And I feel like there's just this collected sigh of hope and relief. I think for decades we've all understood, okay, maybe our politicians aren't like-minded,

Starting point is 00:06:12 but they're like-hearted. We see them go grab a coffee together after, even though they may have voted different. They all believe in this country. I got to see all of America. Yes. In an intimate way. Yeah. And rarely was I disappointed.

Starting point is 00:06:28 I mean, bad things happen. But people are good. Yes. Welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima show. I am so happy you're here. I'm so excited for this conversation we're having together today with First Lady Michelle Obama. The intention of the show is to be a force for good and a force for love. I have guests on that might vote differently, love differently, or pray differently from you and me

Starting point is 00:06:55 because I believe to heal humanity through love, we must first understand the humans who make it up. I am so happy you are here and no matter how you vote or you love or you pray, you belong here. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone shared this episode with you, welcome to the JKL Show podcast family. I'd be so grateful if you could take two seconds and hit the subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching on. That way, you'll be the very first to get every inspirational episode. Plus, you can get weekly inspiration right into your inbox from me for free.

Starting point is 00:07:33 Just join my newsletter at jamiekernlima.com. Thank you so much for sharing this with every single person who you know, who might need some inspiration today, or perhaps a boost in hope and self-belief, because we are all in this life. together. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow. Melinda French Gates. When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. I could see the light around her. She's in full. fused with light. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself

Starting point is 00:08:25 and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima show. Jamie Kern-Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Fern-Lima in their life. Jamie Kearn-Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern-Lima. She's one of the most requested guests of all time and she flew here today to join you and me in person. I am so excited to say first lady Michelle Obama. Welcome to the Jamie Kernelima show. Jamie, wow, I'm honored to say hi, I'm here. You're here. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. I am so excited right off the top. Isn't a question is something I'm going to show you. Okay. Because I want to thank you for leveling up the look of my Christmas tree this year. Oh.

Starting point is 00:09:18 That is that's going to be times 30. So imagine my tree. Uh-huh. Okay. There's going to be 30 of these under my tree. Mm-hmm. And when everyone opened their gift, this is what they're getting. This is what they're getting.

Starting point is 00:09:33 Because I initially, I was so excited to read it, and I thought, oh, great, like, I'm going to look at all the amazing photos. Yeah. What I did not realize is I started the book, you know, rooting for you with your journey. I finished the book and I was like rooting for myself. And I feel like every girl, every woman, every person who reads this and goes through this journey with you, right? Because it's a journey of using our voice, of expressing who we are, of dealing with pressure and expectations and how to handle them. And there's a lot of people that maybe don't even know how to actually use their voice voice, but they can use their voice in other ways.

Starting point is 00:10:15 and you just take us through this journey. And it's everyone's journey. I mean, yes, I was the first lady for eight years. That's kind of an odd position. Yeah. But I hope that the journey that I lay out from my south side little Michelle Robinson days to now reminds people of just the challenges and triumphs that we all have as women in the world, just trying to be ourselves and fight against all of the arrows and rocks that come our way

Starting point is 00:10:51 as we're just trying to become more. Yes. You know, let me set this down real quick. Thank you for that. Great gift. I love it. The best gift. I love it.

Starting point is 00:11:01 Merry Christmas, everyone. Not to mention, like, how good my tree is going to look. How good my tree is going to look. And it's a story for everyone. I think every person is going to see themselves in the book and think about their own journey when they go through it. Such a big journey we're all on is actually feeling our own intuition, like trusting our own gut, like going, what does this feel like when I meet this person? What does it feel like when I walk in this room? What does it feel like when I leave that

Starting point is 00:11:30 conversation? For you, how do you hear your own intuition and trust it? That's such a good question. God, that's a good question. How do I hear? I can tell you, story. I don't know if I know the how do I hear it. But after the campaign, right, and I got dinged, I got raked over the coals, I realized that my intuition about how I have to show up in the world was, it was right and true. And that I couldn't count on anyone else, not campaign staffers, not West Wing team, there's no way that somebody else could understand my journey better than me. And I think that was the time when I realized I cannot wait to be taught this that I have to, I knew very clearly how I had to show up as First Lady in a, you know, it was just

Starting point is 00:12:38 there was an uncanny clarity for me after the campaign of who I was going to be. And that was the first time in something really big where I just said, you know, I'm not listening to the advisors, to the media, to the press. I am going, I'm going to forge my path in the way that I see fit and let me live or die on that mountain. And that's probably the first time when I was sure of my tuition, in my intuition. Wasn't sure of how it would turn out, but I was so clear, Jamie. And I can't tell you what that felt like, but maybe it was the whip of being criticized for something that I didn't completely control.

Starting point is 00:13:40 And maybe that feeling made me think, let these choices be mine. When you make big decisions, even the very first decision ever for Barack to win for presidency, he deferred to you and said, there's a big decision for our family. I'm going to let you make it.

Starting point is 00:13:58 And that's a huge decision you talk about. I know. It's like, thanks. Thanks, Obama. You talk about not wanting the regret of looking back and having not done it. And, you know, of course, we all know you change the course of history in that decision in so many ways. But making a decision like that or even today, any decision that you make right now, how do you make those decisions? Is prayer involved?

Starting point is 00:14:24 Do you get still and meditate and just try to tune in? Do you typically just know instantly? Do you ever second guess yourself? Yes, to all of it. It's all there. It's all their prayer, intuition, meditation, quiet, second-guessing. It's all been a part of it. And I think that I'm talking a lot about wisdom.

Starting point is 00:14:52 And I just think in decision-making, you know, I just think in decision-making, you get better at it over time because wisdom is earned. Yeah. You know, it's just the process of trying and failing and trying and failing. I mean, that's why, you know, in these kind of conversations, it's important to talk about the failures and the doubts because that's all there. I talk about fear a lot because a lot of times fear is at the, it plays too big a role, in my opinion at times and how we do make decisions. And I've had to become.

Starting point is 00:15:30 very conscious. I think Barack's run was the beginning of that. I write about the fact that fear was really at the core of me wanting to say no. And I had to ask myself then and there, did I want to live my life running from something? Did I want to teach my children, my daughters to look at hard things and take the easy road? Is that where growth happens? And the answer oftentimes is no. But at that time in life, I understood the power of fear to keep you stuck in a way that I just didn't want to be stuck, not by fear, not by fear alone. But that's a wisdom that I learned over time, that fear is that feeling that you have to push through. And that if you do, and, you know, again, there's fear that you don't want to push through. There's the gut that tells you, uh-uh.

Starting point is 00:16:29 Don't go down that alley. Don't trust that guy. You know, don't get in the car. That's a different kind of fear. Yeah. You know, I'm talking about the fear of living and the fear of avoiding failure all the time. Yes. The fear of not having anything bad or any hurt or any risk.

Starting point is 00:16:52 That's the fear I've known and I learned through wisdom that I don't want to be stuck with. So I have to, I learned how to dissect that, to know which fear was talking to me. That's something I just learned over time. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Is there anything you fear now? Oh, I fear for our country.

Starting point is 00:17:18 You know, I fear for what, what division and mistrust can, can. can lead to. I fear that we aren't seeing each other anymore, that we aren't operating with sufficient empathy towards one another. I mean, I just fear that we don't give one another the benefit of the doubt. And I've seen what that kind of fear can do. The fears for me are not personal. Yeah. They aren't, you know, I think I've lived long enough. You know, I want my girls to be safe. I want the people I love to be safe. I want them to have, be grounded in faith and in goodness and purpose. All of that is important, but the fears that I have are big for us as of people, us as humanity.

Starting point is 00:18:25 But I'm hopeful. But no, I still have fears. Yeah. I know you've said a million times you'll never run, so I will not ask you that. I will not ask you that. Thanks. Do you have any regrets in the past few years? Would you change any decision you've made in the past couple years?

Starting point is 00:18:43 Wow. In the past couple of years. Let's say the past two years. The past two years, no. Okay. No. Yeah. But, you know, if you gave me, you know, this is the time when, you know, I'm out and there

Starting point is 00:18:57 lights and I'm, you know, give me a minute by myself alone in my office and I might come up with a few. That is a good feeling, though, to know that you, you know, that you feel at peace with your decisions. Because so many, you know, probably one of the most common questions I get asked from, from viewers, from listeners is like, how do I trust myself? Like, how do I hear my intuition? How do I hear God?

Starting point is 00:19:20 How do I know? Is it fear speaking? Is it my intuition? And how do I truly trust myself? And so and I think, you know, for you being an iconic woman in history who's impacted and inspired so many people who gives life-changing history-making speeches who, I mean, you look at 30-plus countries I think visited as first lady, all the things that you've done, how do you trust your knowing when you have so many people that are like, but you could have won. How do you reconcile that? And I ask with the intention of everyone listening

Starting point is 00:20:00 who's scared to trust their own knowing. Yeah. Well, in that instance, the first knowing is who I am. Yeah. And what I want, right? And that's a hard thing when everybody has an opinion

Starting point is 00:20:18 or a view, right? And we grow up with that. You should be a this and you should go to this school. And you know, you would really be good at this and that. And look, I spent my 20s, 30s and 40s doing the things that based on what other people thought and what I saw over there and maybe that would work out. And I've just learned that I got to start with, who am I? No, being, I, unlike the vast majority of people on this planet, I actually know what it means to be president.

Starting point is 00:20:55 I saw it up close and personal. I understand what the job means. This is just as an example. I know what the job means. I know what it means for one's family. I know the, the possibilities. I understand that sometimes you can't lead if people aren't ready. for you to lead. I know what I am confident in is I know more about the job than the vast

Starting point is 00:21:22 majority of people who think somebody should want it. Yeah. And I also know that most people have no idea. Yes. What the job is. It is the one job where everybody is a backseat driver and only 40, 47, six people have done it ever in the history of our nation. There's no job like that, right? People won't tell somebody how to dribble a ball, you know. They'll trust a pro to shoot a basket, but everybody thinks they, you know, can second guess the president of the United States. I don't care what party they're in.

Starting point is 00:22:02 It's a hard job. and it is taxing on everyone who is in their orbit. I know that for sure, and I know what I want for my family. I know the stage that I want for them. I know this more than anything else. So I guess that's a long way of saying, that's the certainty I have at 61 that makes what everybody else think I should want meaningless because I know that they don't know what they're asking.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Yes. They have just no idea. It's out of goodness. And there are a lot of people who operate. Well, but if you can win, then you should do it. That's also a view of power, right? It's really interesting that, you know, people see a position. It's the most powerful position.

Starting point is 00:22:58 Right now, I think the most powerful position, And for me is having a platform where the largest number of people feel like they can connect with me. You know, and once you put on a party hat, you lose half of those people. They forget that you were the human you were before you said you were going to do it. And right now, I'd like to think there are people of all. parties who've come to know my voice in a way that isn't political and it isn't partisan. I definitely have views. I definitely have beliefs and opinions and I've supported certain people.

Starting point is 00:23:46 But I think right now, I think my platform is to reach as many of those people as possible and to get us back in a conversation about us as people and ourselves and to, you know, remember our humanity and to work on our own forgiveness. I know there is power in that. It's not the hard power. It's not the glamorous in the big fancy car, you know, with all the security. But it is a power that I know is real and important. Yes. I think this work, this work that you're doing, these conversations, Jamie, there's power in that. Because it's, It's through these long conversations that people open up. Yes.

Starting point is 00:24:36 And they, you know, their hearts open in a different way. They're just more ways to skin a cat. Yeah. We need it now. I feel like more than ever. I think like everyone in their own way, in their own platform, can be a force for good and a force for love and do what we can to help heal humanity through love. As you're sharing that, I'm thinking about a moment that's, you know, my families.

Starting point is 00:25:01 So I have five families, long story. I'm adopted. It's a whole thing. They all vote different, love different, believe different, all the things. And I remember the moment at John McCain's funeral and then a second moment at H.W. Bush's funeral where George W. Bush hands you, what everyone thought was candy as a cough drop. And I feel like there's just this collected sigh of hope and relief. I think for decades we've all understood, okay, maybe our politicians aren't like-minded, but they're like-hearted.

Starting point is 00:25:38 We see them go grab a coffee together after, even though they may have voted different. They all believe in this country. And it's the country that we are. That was the best thing about being first lady. I got to see all of America in an intimate way. Yeah. And rarely was I disappointed. it. I mean, and I do mean rarely. I mean, bad things happen, but people are good. Yes. And just sometimes

Starting point is 00:26:08 we just need to be leadership is about reminding us of that good. Yes. Because it's so easy to tap into our fear. Yes. We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your

Starting point is 00:27:00 life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth.

Starting point is 00:27:51 Get your copy of Worth, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. and I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me.

Starting point is 00:28:38 If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamie curlema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is,

Starting point is 00:29:18 exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and build self-love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals.

Starting point is 00:29:59 Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com slash resources or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together.

Starting point is 00:30:37 Can you talk about how for every person listening and also you that, you know, fashion and makeup and beauty can be an outward expression of our inner voice. Oh, my goodness. You know, I think we, there comes a point in our lives, hopefully, not everybody is this way where what we put on, how we wear our hair. I mean, I go back to all of our bedrooms as little girls. I don't know about you, but I, I don't know about you, but I don't know a little girl that didn't play dress up and I know that there are little girls out there that have different interests but I was one of those I had my Barbie dolls and I had my Chrissy dolls and you know I was a girly girl in that way and just being able to play in those

Starting point is 00:31:31 spaces you know it just felt special and so there that comes from something right They're just something in the fun of putting on a beautiful dress or a lovely shoe that just makes us, or at least makes me feel more like myself. You know, we all have to put on some kind of armor to get up and get ready in the day. I mean, maybe we don't think about it in those terms, whether it's, as I write in the look, business suit for your first day at the office or your wedding dress, what you choose to walk down the aisle in or the gown if you ever get to wear something beautiful like that for black tie. Every single decision is a reflection of who you're trying to be at that moment in that time. So fashion, like it or not, is we are slowly sending a message.

Starting point is 00:32:42 about our values, about how we feel about ourselves in any given point in time. So I think that this book is a fun exploration into how that all unfolded for me. It was not just getting dressed. It was getting dressed to represent the world in those eight years to represent this nation. And there had to be a strategy behind it. And we talk a lot about that in the book. Yeah. Hearing the intention. I've never heard you share things like this before where you're sharing the behind the scenes of the intention of every outfit and even sometimes the pressure or what's going on. And were there moments where Michelle from Euclid Avenue maybe would have used her voice in a certain way, but in this particular role or in this particular time in history where you chose to, I guess, express how you felt through what you wore. or how you did your hair.

Starting point is 00:33:43 Yeah. You know, I didn't really think about fashion as choice and voice early on in the course of the campaign. I mean, things were such a blur for us. I had never campaigned in that intense a way. I mean, yes, Barack was a state senator. He was a U.S. senator. But I only participated peripherally in those campaigns. but the run for the presidency was different.

Starting point is 00:34:13 And I was overnight thrust out into the country relatively on my own. I had a small staff. I had a chief of staff, Melissa Winter. I had one communications person. It was the three of us. And I was still working full time. I was still, at the time I was the vice president for Community Affairs at the University of Chicago hospitals. It wasn't a small job.

Starting point is 00:34:37 So I went from that life of a working mother. You know, the girls were preschool and kindergarten. And I was that person. I was just trying to get to soccer and to drop off the kids at school. And I was thinking about the birthday present. And then I had to run to the office. And so my wardrobe reflected that life. And then all of a sudden, I'm in people's backyards in Iowa,

Starting point is 00:35:09 talking about values and introducing myself at high school gymnasiums and in VA centers and, you know, and a rally with, you know, an event would go from 20 people in someone's backyard to eventually hundreds of people and then thousands of people. All of that happened over the course of months. So for me, dressing was just, it was a survival approach. Yeah. I would start the day on a campaign day at 5 a.m. I'd have to go and get my hair done at my salon, get on the first Southwest flight out of Midway Airport in Chicago, which was usually a six, seven a.m. flight land somewhere in Iowa at the time. I would do anywhere from five to six events back to back to back with photo lines. rope lines and um and some of the events were in schools and some were fancy events um and so it was

Starting point is 00:36:19 like drinking from uh fire hires fire house yeah do you did you were you ready for and i know this happens to every single woman i know who is public in any way were you ready for so much attention on what you wore. I think you said Barack could often wear the same suit every day. And no one notices, but whatever typically a woman wears, especially in the public eye, like, were you ready for that? Did you know that was coming? No, I was not ready for it because my focus was on the message. It was really, I was trying to introduce our family to the country and help people understand who we were as the first black, potentially first family traveling in mostly rural areas, I knew maybe people don't think they have anything in common with us. You know, so my approach

Starting point is 00:37:14 was, let me tell you about us. Yeah. Now, let me tell you about how we grew up. Let me tell you about our parents and what we ate around the kitchen table and the lessons that we learned. I mean, I was so, Jamie, focused on that because I really felt like we're all alike, you know. We may have different skin colors. We may have different political. views, but in the end, we all want the same thing. And let me tell you, my message was really focused on that. I didn't, I wasn't thinking about how I looked. I was really, I was looking people in the eye and trying to connect. And then all of a sudden, an article would be written. And it would start, no matter how passionate a speech would be, it would start with, and she was wearing a fuchsia

Starting point is 00:38:00 this, and her arms were that. And it was a shock, actually, to say, like, for all that I said in that event, the first thing they noticed was what I had on and it's written in here. And the crowd was mesmerized. Some people were crying. That was sort of an afterthought. And Jamie, I have to tell you, it was, it was a shock because that that wasn't going on with my husband. That wasn't going on with any of the other male candidates or speakers out there. it was happening to the women in a way, and it wasn't just comments about what we were wearing, but, you know, the size of my hips and my arms. And, you know, I say that in a political situation, people are trying to win, which means they're trying to make you lose. Yes. And losing,

Starting point is 00:38:55 by making us lose, they had to make us feel like other. So everything was kind of, I learned, everything was fair game, even my personhood, my very being, the tone of my voice, I was accused of being angry. It was shocking to me because there was nothing angry about me. I was the same person that America has come to know. Funny, passionate, concerned, welcoming. I was never any different. I have not changed a bit, but in a political climate, when the wrong statement could be turned on its head, I was stunned. And so I knew, wow, I cannot, I have to be mindful of everything I say. Every word I utter, every hymn of my skirt, because everything was being picked apart. And I say this not just because it's me. I think that happens to women

Starting point is 00:40:04 in the world. So it's, you know, our whole relationship with fashion isn't just accidental. You know, our value as women, you know, we get reduced to how we look. Yes. And when somebody wants to go after us, they take that away from us. Yes. I think Michelle, you know, I started a beauty company, right? And one of my biggest goals was how can, you know, I do my full face in five minutes or how can I, you know, and one of the reasons why the amount of time in my life, when I look back and I think about the amount of time where I didn't maybe want to leave the house because I was like, oh, this doesn't fit and this weight or whatever, it was something to do with appearance, something to do with appearance. And it's, you know, I was thinking about this because, you know,

Starting point is 00:40:54 Dove released a study that over 80% of girls and women will literally opt out of meaningful activities, like time with loved ones, joining clubs or groups, they'll opt out of meaningful activities if they don't like how they look, right? And over 90% of girls and women don't like their bodies. And when I think about what has this cost us? What has this cost us? And to your point, every person, and especially every girl and woman can, that I know certainly, can relate to this. But I think about what it's cost us. I think about, for me, I actually didn't wear a swimsuit for a couple decades until one day I was like, what am I showing my daughter? I'm like, okay, I'm going to shake my cellulet with joy because I'm done. I'm done with what it's cost

Starting point is 00:41:43 me. But when you think about that, do you think in a way it almost holds, and there's certainly I think of subsets of culture where appearances even celebrated even more and it's more there's more pressure to look so good right whether it's hair makeup what we're wearing do you think that all of it as it's aimed at women has almost been another form of holding us back absolutely I mean you know my my aversion to panty hose that's that's one of those kind of who invented nylon, you know, it feels like a trap for us. It's an expensive style invention that is completely impractical. They are uncomfortable, they rip, you know, and just wearing a dress to work, heels.

Starting point is 00:42:43 I mean, you think about what we are tiptoeing around life looking a certain way. I mean, the height of the heel, I wore a pair of heels over. These boots are a little bit better because at least they're square heel. But you think of just putting on a heel to make the line of your leg look better. Yes. To make the hem line work. I mean, this is all the external stuff. There's nothing practical about working in a pair of heels and nylons.

Starting point is 00:43:11 Yes. There's no one on this planet that can say that that's what I would wake up and choose. if I have to, if I'm really going to focus on the job and the message that I want to be tiptoeing around in heels and worrying about whether I put a run in my stockings. But those are the standards that we're all trying to live up to. And, you know, part of my exploration into this journey is the first lady role, it just really heightened it. Yeah. Right. And I say this, that the job of first lady is an interesting job, non-job. You know, it doesn't come with a real salary or job description. No one technically elected the first spouse, I'll say. We've only had first ladies. You're supposed to be aspirational, but representational, reachable, approachable. You know, you're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy.

Starting point is 00:44:22 You have to be authentic, but like everyone else. A lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure on top of the unreasonable structures that we're in. Yes. You know, Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie, buttons up. You know, his decision or man's decision is, do I go? go with a striped shirt or a plain white shirt. Do I go with a red tie or blue tie? If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me with Barack, if we'd go

Starting point is 00:45:01 from Air Force One to a hike to a fundraiser, what do I wear to that that would work? A man takes off his jacket, rolls up his sleeves, he's casual, takes off his tie, puts the tie back on puts the same jacket back on doesn't have to worry about shoes or as women if do you wear a dress to somebody's home that's a nice fundraiser but then are you really going to go to on a hike i had that dilemma am i going to go for for a hike in the grand canyon in a cocktail dress with flats what message does that send you know is that normal yes um i'm that's what i'm doing in air Force One is trying to figure out whether I actually put on shorts to do a hike and how am I going to change to do the next event that we have to do? And how do I do it without interrupting the

Starting point is 00:45:58 presidential motorcade? That's the extra work that women are doing. Yes. When I hear that, I just hear time, like time, capacity, energy. There is a thing that came out recently that said if we spend 20 minutes a day on something and live to be over 70, that's one. year of our life we give it. So if we're scrolling Instagram for 20 minutes a day or if we're figuring out what we're wearing or 20 minutes extra on our hair, whatever it might be, a year of our life. And for a lot of us, it's way more than 20 minutes a day. And one of the things in the look that I love so much is we need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could

Starting point is 00:46:41 inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear. here today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to Jamie

Starting point is 00:47:27 curlema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book. You know why? Because it's going to save so many people. It's going to say people. Worthy, your new beautiful book worthy. Get this book? This book? This book? I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life.

Starting point is 00:48:21 I have to tell you. It's powerful. It's happening. It's worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you. I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to founder of It Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning. how to overcome self-doubt and believe I am worthy of my hopes and dreams and I'm sharing how you can too in my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life.

Starting point is 00:48:54 If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self-doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of.

Starting point is 00:49:31 Join the worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of worthy, anywhere books are sold, then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts, including my five-part course on Becoming Unstoppable and my 95-page Worthy Workbook Action Plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now. Worthy is groundbreaking. Yo. Oh, my God! Worthy, you are worthy.

Starting point is 00:50:00 This book is going to change lives. This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength. the confidence. The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's Bookworthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.

Starting point is 00:50:25 Jamie's Bookworthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. And now more of this incredible conversation. together. One of the things in the look that I love so much is you take us on your journey also of time and of what you trade for. And you talk about wearing braids and your hair and the time that you save and just how much more freeing that can be. And just sort of when we start to think, because I think always about the person that's going to get this home, which includes 30 of my family members for Christmas under the tree. But when you go on this journey with you,

Starting point is 00:51:06 you start to think about your own, which is so, you know, I remember, you know, when I am, I started a company in my living room and ended up working 100 hour weeks for a decade. Michelle, I ended up doing the whole like Steve Jobs thing where I had the same black shirt, same black pants. I had 20 of them. Oh, Jamie, I have dreamt of the black error. Yeah? Yeah. Where you don't even think you just have like I couldn't make one more decision in the day. The same. I used to threaten with Meredith. I said, you know, I'm just going to go black. We're just going to be black and white. And that's all we're going to have the same, you know.

Starting point is 00:51:41 Yeah, it's a luxury. And, you know, I know I've dreamt about just ridding myself of all of the details and the worries. Yeah. Do you in your off time? By the way, it can be so fun to you. Like when you walked in, I was like, oh, that's so good. And just like, I get, you know, because fashion can be fun and beauty and makeup. It's like, how do we, I think what's so exciting is the journey you're on, that I think

Starting point is 00:52:10 so many women are on, which is like, okay, what am I willing to trade time for? What brings me joy? Does it bring me joy to, like, put on something special that's, and then does it bring me even more joy that six days a week? I am in my sweats and all the things, right? Yeah. Well, I didn't really have that choice as first lady. Of course, yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:31 Every day, every time I was up, as we called it. You know, I was up for the public. Yes. And the days were long. So, as you mentioned, to save time. Yes. You know, I know having a glam team, a trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was a time necessity. Yes.

Starting point is 00:52:52 There is absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes ready that fit, you know, Because rare is the woman that can live off the rack. Yes. You know, because it's not just finding the right outfit, but my arms are long, my legs are long. There's nothing on the rack that I could wear. So everything has to be altered. Everything has to fit just so. If you're bending over to hug a child, your shirt can't raise up because that could be the story.

Starting point is 00:53:24 If they see a roll on your side and the goal was always never make fashion the story. You know, always make the work the story, but it took a lot of work to make sure that that happened. So having a team of people, Meredith Kube, Carl, Ray, Yanei, and Jerry, that structuring it so that we spent X amount of time each month, just thinking, okay, here's the calendar, what do we have to do? I'd set aside a few hours for fitting maybe once a month, once every couple of months, to do all that, just to lay it all out, to fit the clothes, to have them ready, so that when it was time to work, I could get up, really pick something off of the rack and know that it fit, it was comfortable, it was appropriate, it was thoughtful. Every woman who is trying to get around in the world needs something like that, but we don't. We don't have it. Right. So now we've got to do what I did before I had my trifecta, which is to find the time in the middle of a busy day to go to a department store and park your car and go up the escalator or to get online and order a bunch of clothes and have them sent. And then you've got to try them on and hope that they fit and then return them and on and on. And you talk about hair. When you mention that you didn't wear a swimsuit for a while, for a lot of black women who are trying to fit into the one beauty standard of straight, bouncy hair,

Starting point is 00:55:00 swimming, being in the rain, you know, I find so many young girls that stay away from water. They're not in sports because they don't want to sweat. Because if your hair gets wet, just like any curly hair, you know, it goes from straight back to what it was. That's time. That's opportunity. That's our health, you know. And that's why I say that, you know, I do not want corporate America.

Starting point is 00:55:27 I don't want men or politicians in our business, you know, setting standards for us by how we should look and feel when they have no idea what it means for us, how much time we're wasting, how much time we could be using working on an issue. finishing a project or getting something done instead they because we have jamie such a narrow definition of beauty yes in the world um which is based on i don't even understand um that you've got all these wonderful women all over the world trying to fit into this narrow definition of what is acceptable in terms of size and hair color and hair texture and flow. Men aren't held to that standard, you know. A handsome man could be fat, tall, pot belly, six-pack, balding, gray, you know, a bearded knot.

Starting point is 00:56:30 There's so many options for how men can look. Yes. But there's one definition, and it's just so sad to see so many young girls altering their appearance trying to fit into these narrow definitions, nose jobs, and boats. and lip fillers and all slowly but surely we are all trying to look like just one or five people. Yes. And the work that it takes to take yourself out of your natural state of being and to become something totally different. It is psychologically damaging. It is physically exhausting and it is financially ruining for so many of us.

Starting point is 00:57:14 And I think, you know, I hope that the look helps to start this conversation among us, because it has to start with us, you know, sort of fighting against trying to fit into these narrow definitions of what beauty is, regardless of what the rest of the world says. Because you know that, you know, men can be hard, they can be judgmental, but we as women are sometimes the most judgmental of one another. and of ourselves. Yeah. We are hard on ourselves. Our mothers are hard on their daughters. Yes. And sometimes it's done in all good nature.

Starting point is 00:57:56 They just want the best for us. I want you to have opportunity. I want you to find love. I want you to be accepted all the while we are crushing the true spirit of girls and women. Yes. So powerful. And I think, you know, for me, again, and I think going through the journey on this, when you wore braids, it was like, I was like jumping out of my seat. It was like, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:58:22 Because it's such a big deal. You too. You too. And it was just, you know, we're all on this journey. And I feel like it's, I feel like one of the big things is this conversation, this book, us talking about these things, but also setting the example, right? How many people felt just like sat up taller when you walked out there, you know, with braids? And it's like, it's, I think also when we think about and everyone listening and watching us right now can do this right now in their own life, what has it cost you the things we say to ourselves? Because you're exactly right.

Starting point is 00:58:54 Yes, I have found often most of the judgment can come from other women or each other or even without knowing or well-intended family members or friends. But I have said the hardest things to myself, things I would never say to anyone else ever about, you know, body, face, whatever it might be, hair, whatever it might be. And again, when you look at the numbers that over 90% of girls and women don't love their bodies, do you now ever feel not confident or unworthy? At this stage in life, it's rare. But I am 61. Yeah. And I have done a lot of work and reflection. I've lived a long life, and I think I've fought off a lot of those insecurities and doubts. So I would say no, but it took a lot of work. Take a lot of work. And time. And I think, and wisdom, you know, I mean, you live life and you,

Starting point is 01:00:06 you slowly realize what really matters. And let me, as we said, fashion clothes, I love to feel good. I love to have my hair done. I love getting my makeup done. And I'm learning that that's me too. Yeah. That I love the cut of a dress. I love this body suit.

Starting point is 01:00:29 I put it on and it just, it makes me happy. Do you loan them to friends? Oh, no. asking for a friend that's the beauty of being 5-11 it's like no it won't fit anybody and my daughters they they try to sneak in my closet but we have a deal when I see them moving towards my closet direction I'm like where are you going yeah what are you doing you know what's happening I need to see what's happening but it's taken some time yeah for me to truly be comfortable in my own skin And look, I understand why it takes so long.

Starting point is 01:01:08 What age did it happen would you say? Oh, my gosh. There's not a magic age. I think it's just, for me, it was gradual over time. But I also try to remind myself, look, I wasn't set up in this world to feel any differently. I was a tall black girl from a working class family in America, where there were few. images or role models for me to watch. I mean, I grew up watching Marcia and Jan Brady. You know, I talk about those influences and why representation is so important because if young

Starting point is 01:01:49 girls don't see themselves on the covers of magazines and starring in shows, even though there are millions of beautiful young black and Latino girls out there, if they don't get the opportunities to star in shows or to be something that represents the standard of beauty, then you grow up, not really sure whether little girls like you are actually beautiful and sought after. As I got older, I realized that's not me. That's messaging. That's socialization. And once I, you know, probably as I got out into, the world and saw all types of women and people. And I saw women that were white and blonde and wealthy. And I saw, and I saw all the varying degrees of goodness. Yeah. You know.

Starting point is 01:02:49 Yeah. And beauty doesn't, or a certain standard of beauty doesn't guarantee that you're a good person. No. That you operate well in the world. That you, you know, that you uphold a certain set of values. You know, values, compassion, empathy doesn't have a, have a dress size. Yeah. Or that you're even confident. Or have any self-worth. Yeah. It's like there's almost no correlation. So you slowly meet people and live in the world and you realize while we're all dealing with some level of insecurity. Yeah. We are all dealing with the messaging that's driven into our heads and it hurts hurts us all in different ways

Starting point is 01:03:32 and we're all walking around with those scars. Yes. And then you get old enough to and then you become a mother. Yes. And you start thinking about messaging to your daughters in my case right? And you have to get yourself

Starting point is 01:03:48 in check. You have to brush off your insecurities so that you don't pass them on to these beautiful girls. Yes. So in delivering a different set of messages to my daughter, I had to take them in myself, you know, and there was a, that was a stage of growth that happened for me, right? And then fighting to be seen in the world as yourself, you know, the fight as first lady to define who I was and not let myself be defined. fighting for that.

Starting point is 01:04:25 Yes. In order to do it well, you have to love yourself. You have to really start appreciating the you that is there and using your voice. That's all this journey to now. And it didn't happen overnight. And it doesn't happen for anybody overnight. And I don't think that any of us as women are free of it. You know, we're all struggling in this way.

Starting point is 01:04:52 struggling to grab hold of the thing in us that is true and embrace it and nurture it. And some of us succeed and some of us never succeed. And I just want more young girls to think differently about themselves in the world and what beauty is and to focus more on what they do than what they look like, even though that part of it is fun. Yes. You know? Right now, in this.

Starting point is 01:05:22 moment. Do you feel beautiful? Absolutely. I do. I feel the most beautiful that I've ever felt. And as you know, that's not what's on the outside. That's health has always been, as you know, and many people know, it's critical. It's been critical to my journey of acceptance. Because how I feel, you know, my health, my muscle tone, my stamina, my my my pocket. you know, my flexibility, my, you know, because the older you get, the more aches and pains come. So you're, I know I'm constantly figuring out my body and doing that work and having the time now that I'm not showing up for the world. Yes. I'm able to show up for myself. You still are. Still are. Still are in a way. But I do feel the best that I've ever felt. And I would have

Starting point is 01:06:16 never thought that 60 would feel like this because 60 nowadays is very different. I mean, I spend my time thinking about how my grandparents were when I thought they were old. Yes. Yes. You know, when I really thought they were old and they were my age, my grandparents who were gray-haired and retired and, you know, there was just a different notion of what being 60 and 70 was. And now it's totally different. You know, and, you know, I push health for people, you know, not just how you look, but how do you feel? Because as women, the best times in our lives are now. Yes.

Starting point is 01:07:00 And if we're not healthy enough to enjoy this time to get up and take that trip and walk through an airport for miles to climb a pyramid, to, you know, to walk on cobblestones, when we have the time, we have the money. the wisdom. What a waste that would be. So I'm living to be healthy enough to live the life at least I think I've earned. Yes. This conversation with First Lady Michelle Obama is so incredible. We made it into more than one part. So get ready to dive deeper into how to trust yourself. Use your voice and love who you truly are. You are not going to want to miss this incredible part two of our conversation with Michelle Obama. That's coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. Remember this episode's not just for you and me.

Starting point is 01:07:56 Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for this show on the app you're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life, if you could give it a rating or review, I would be so grateful five stars if you can and again just share it with every person you believe in share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it maybe you know someone needs to step into their authentic self or love who they truly are please post the episode and share it with

Starting point is 01:08:31 others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today you never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are. Heal where you need. blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you'd like because you

Starting point is 01:09:22 belong here. You are worthy. You are love. You are loved. And I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the

Starting point is 01:10:19 truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step in to the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt, an unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank-you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy.

Starting point is 01:11:04 Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious, and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamie kurnlema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamie

Starting point is 01:11:56 kurnlema.com or in the link in the show notes. And please note I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.

The Jamie Kern Lima Show - Michelle Obama Reveals All! Life-Changing Lessons on Intuition, Trusting Yourself & Loving Who You Are!

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