The Jamie Kern Lima Show - Norah O’Donnell’s First EVER Podcast Interview! Life-Changing Lessons & How Success Leaves Clues!

Episode Date: February 17, 2026

You know her from her iconic, history-making interviews on CBS and 60 minutes, to being one of only three women in our history to solo anchor the primetime evening network news! She’s interviewed every living president and TODAY, for the first time ever, She’s agreed to BE THE ONE getting Interviewed, that’s right, Norah has never before done a podcast or long-form sit-down interview where the tables are turned and she’s the one being asked the questions…and I am SO honored, excited and grateful that she’s here in person with you and me today for her first ever podcast interview! In addition to Interviewing every Living US President, including her much-talked about recent viral interview with the current President, NORAH O’DONNELL has interviewed the most prominent World Leaders from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Saudi Crown Prince MBS, to the Dalai Lama, Malala, Oprah, and Dolly Parton to a historic, first-of-it’s kind sit down with Pope Francis. And Over her decades-long, distinguished career, award-winning journalist Norah O’Donnell has also made it her mission to shed light on untold women’s stories. Now, in honor of America’s 250th birthday, she’s focusing that passion on the American heroines who helped change the course of history. In her brand new book We the Women: The Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America, We the Women presents a fresh look at American history through the eyes of women, introducing us to inspiring patriots who demanded that the country live up to the promises made 250 years ago in the Declaration of Independence: “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Since the signing of that document, Norah says the pressing question from women has been: Why don’t those unalienable rights apply to us? Norah has flown across the country to be here with you and me today in her first ever long-form sit down interview where she’s the one in the hot seat and I am so excited for this conversation! And for this worldwide premier of Norah O’Donnell on the Jamie Kern Lima Show! ___ And whether you're joining me today for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. And remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it with every single person that you know because it can change their life too. Order Norah O'Donnell's new book, We the Women: The Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America here. ____ Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to The Jamie Kern Lima Show 26:10 Why Your Story Matters 34:35 Other Women’s Stories Who’ll Inspire Yours! 48:00 “This Is a Nation Built On Immigrants” 1:14:10 Faith Walks Alongside of You 1:19:05 Either Pray…Or Worry…But Don’t Do Both! 1:21:10 The State Of Our Country & Our Press It’s such an honor to share this podcast together with you. And please note: I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to Subscribe to the YouTube Channel Follow me here:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —  Sign up for my inspirational newsletter for YOU at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ jamiekernlima.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  —  Looking for my books on Amazon? Here they are!  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WORTHY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Believe IT⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Do you feel as a country that we're moving in the right direction? Jamie, you're very good at this. Welcome to the worldwide premiere of Nora O'Donnell in her first ever podcast interview. The microscope is really on CBS right now in a lot of ways. What can you tell us about that? We have had a lot of leadership changes at CBS, and that has been challenging. People are fearful about what the future means. Do you still believe the First Amendment and freedom of the press is protected?

We all take a lot of heat, you know, making sure that her last child had my grandmother's name and feeding all of that love and hope into her daughters. And now my sister spends her days saving people's lives. lives. And that's life. That's the journey of life. Can your heart expand? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What? What keeps you up at night? Almost everything? Yeah?

Yeah, I do. I'm a little bit of a worry wart, maybe undiagnosed anxiety. You know her from her iconic history-making interviews on CBS and 60 Minutes. minutes. What are you doing as president to end the shutdown? To being one of only three women in our history to solo anchor at the primetime evening network news. She's interviewed every living president and today for the first time ever she's agreed to be the one getting interviewed. That's right. Nora O'Donnell has never before done a podcast or long form sit down interview where the tables are turned and she's the one being asked the questions. And I am so honored, excited, and truly so grateful that she is here in person with you and me today for her first ever podcast interview.

Getting to the top is hard. Getting anywhere is hard. Your eyes just lit up when you said Gail King. My own grandmother, an immigrant from Northern Ireland, fleeing religious persecution as a Catholic. My grandfather did not come through Ellis Island. He came through illegally, through Canada, and was a stowaway on a boat. This is a nation built on immigrants. It's all kinds of immigrants from all over the world,

and that's my family. Those words in the Declaration of Independence, those are the most important words in human history. Do you think those words ring true right now? I think America is the greatest country in the world. It's why everybody wants to come to America. People have fought and died for the right to vote. The power of the vote, of your vote, of all of our votes, is so incredibly important.

Do you think our elections are still fair? You've been married 25 years to Jeff. Jeff, Jeff, chef, chef, chef, Jeff. Chef Jeff. Love a man that can cook. Love a man that can cook. In addition to interviewing every living U.S. president, including her much-talked-about recent viral interview with President Trump, Nora O'Donnell has interviewed the most prominent world leaders

from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Saudi Crown Prince, MBS, to the Dalai Lama, Malala, Oprah, and Dali Parton to a historic first of its kind sit down with Pope Francis. I know you don't like this question. And over her decades-long distinguished career, award-winning journalist Nora O'Donnell has also made it her mission to shed light on untold women's stories. Now, in honor of America's 250th birthday, she's focusing that passion on American heroines who helped change the course of history. In her brand new book, We the Women, the Hidden Heroes Who Shaped America, We the Women presents a fresh look at American history through the eye. of women, introducing us to inspiring patriots who demanded that the country live up to the promises made 250 years ago in the Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal, that they are

endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Since the signing of that document, Nora says the pressing question from women has been, why don't those unalienable rights apply to us? I have to say, when you get this book home and read it for yourself, it will ignite a strength and conviction in you that for me feels so exciting and so needed. I am such a believer that we can learn from and be inspired by and borrow courage from other people's stories. Nora O'Donnell has flown across the country to be here with you and me today in her first ever. long-form sit-down interviewer,

she's the one in the hot seat, and I am so excited for this conversation and for this worldwide premiere of Nora O'Donnell on the Jamie Kernelima Show. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone you love shared this episode with you, I wanna welcome you to the Jamie Kernelima Show podcast family. Thank you so much for being here.

And can you take two seconds and hit the subscribe or follow button on the app you're listening or watching on? It truly means the world to me. also get inspiration from me right to you for free in your inbox to join my newsletter community at jamie kernlema.com. And this incredible podcast episode, it's not just for you and me, please share this with every single person you know who might need some inspiration today, perhaps a boost in their self-belief or some belief in their own story and the power of it, because what you're

about to hear can truly impact mine, yours, and their life too. Welcome to Jamie Kern Lee Michelle. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug. First Lady Michelle Obama. Jamie, you are going so deep.

I have never had this in-depth conversation. I've actually never said that out loud to anybody in an interview before. You know how to get there. Your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow. Linda French Gates. When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. Megan, Duchess of Sussex. I wasn't expecting that one.

I could see the light around her. She's infused with light. Maria Shriver. I never made that mistake again. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the Jamie Kern-Lima show. Jamie Kern-Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Fern-Lima in their life.

Jamie Kern-Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern-Lima. We're O'Donnell. Welcome to the Jamie Kern-Cirn-Lima show. Oh my goodness, Jamie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

You have interviewed every living president, almost every notable figure in the world, all of the world leaders. You're sitting down here for the first time ever in a long-form interview where the tables are turned. The tables are turned, Jamie. I can't think of anybody better to do it with than you. But yes, I mean, I think I'm fearless in many ways in my journalistic career. And, but I don't, I usually ask people questions. Listening is my superpower. I'm not used to answering questions, but I've written this book about women. Yeah. In addition to all those big interviews I've done in my life, I've also tried to tell the stories of women because I think storytelling is incredibly important. And I do want women and young girls to hear the stories of women

who do incredible things and to learn from them and gain inspiration and courage from them. Yeah. I have to say when I read We the Women that's out now, everyone go grab your copy. I am an author and I know how much work goes into creating a book. and reading your book, the research that went into this book, but the stories that you selected over 250 years, right of our country's history, I closed the book, fired up, feeling more confident than ever in the things I'm willing to take on, looking at other women who just got back up and kept going or didn't worry that maybe it was too late or they were too old or they were the wrong gender and just like the things that they've gone through has been so inspiring.

And so for you, you are one of only three women in our history to solo anchor the primetime evening network news. It's Diane Sawyer, Katie Kirk, and you. And I know when you were a little girl, you watched Barbara Walters and you said, I want to do that. Nora, what is it about you? Because we're talking about you. What is it? What is it about you that went from, you know, growing up seeing Barbara Walters?

Walters and maybe feeling a whisper saying I have that dream to actually making it happen. It's a great question. And one of the things I want young girls to do is believe in their dreams and to have big, big dreams. And don't let anybody crush your dreams. Because a lot of people try and, you know, over time, you get rejected. You've talked about it in building your incredible business in your life. And you have to surround yourself with the support. system. My mom always told me so that when life gets tough or people doubt you or your own of your own self-limiting doubts that you keep pushing forward. And so I think of myself as a little girl. You know, I look back at pictures of myself playing soccer, you know, right wing forward, growing up with two

brothers, getting dirty, and never thinking about all of the things that limit your belief in yourself. And luckily, for my parents, they exposed us to the news. We had newspapers around our house. My dad was in the army. I'm a military brat. So certainly we followed what was happening, not only at home, but around the world. And so the TV was always on. And there was really one woman who was everywhere interviewing the most powerful people in the world, the 10 most fascinating people in the world. She used to have those specials. And I thought, who is this Barbara Walters? You know, Saturday Night Live used to do skits on Barbara Walters. And, and, um, You know, I'm a firm believer in that if you can see it, you can believe it.

And I think I looked up to Barbara Walters and just said, wow, she has a front row seat to history. And I want to do that. And I want to be that. And somehow, somehow over a very long career and working mostly seven days a week, you know, I did get to sit in the same chair as Walter Cronkite and Katie Couric. Yeah. And you've interviewed. I mean, everyone. Yeah, I mean, my background really was in covering politics in Washington.

I mean, I covered the White House and covered the Pentagon and covered Congress, traveled the world after the 9-11 attacks. So I've covered wars and hurricanes. I always say natural disasters and man-made disasters. And then went and anchored the morning show alongside Gail King and got to do the morning show for seven years, which was really one of the best jobs I've ever had in television because Gail and I used to get ready, our makeup ready in the morning together,

starting at 5 a.m. And then I anchored the evening news for almost six years. So doing the news every single day for 13 years is a lot in an incredible privilege. And so as part of that, I sought the biggest interviews in the world and tried to build a reputation of integrity and trust that led me on this path to being able to meet and interview the most fascinating, powerful people in the world and build trust and respect. Your eyes just lit up when you said Gail King. You know her. Is there anybody better? Can you talk about what that's like to have like a genuine friendship where two women, you know, that saying empowered women, empower women?

A lot of people wonder, is it really like that behind the scenes? Your eyes just lit up when you said her name, which is really cool to see. Well, anchoring a morning show is tough. Yeah. You know. It's tiring. And there's nothing better than sitting at the crack of dawn with Gail King telling hilarious stories. She has endless energy. But when we anchored the morning show, whenever we had a guest on or there'd be somebody at the table some conversation, Gail and I could literally look at each other and communicate without talking. Wow.

I mean, that's how much we can sort of read each other's mind on something. And that's like an old friendship, you know, when you can read your friend just by looking at them. And I think what Gail is is really a best friend. You want to be around people who are like sunshine, whether they're friends or people you work with, and Gail is sunshine. I think it's no coincidence that her favorite color is yellow. It's like the sun, yeah.

And she wears that yellow dress, right, every year anniversary. Yes. With Barbara Walters, did you ever get a chance to tell her in person? I did get to tell her in person. And when I took over the evening news, she sent me a note. And it meant a great deal to me because, you know, Barbara Walters did co-anchor the evening news at one point early in her career and was doubted.

And, you know, she had a tough career, even though we all think of just the incredible career that she had, but she also had a tough, tough times as well. And so when you get a letter from someone who, you know, is an icon that you grew up, it was really meant an incredible, meant so much to me. And I can remember when she passed away, it was just around, you know, Christmas time and New Year's. And I remember thinking what a huge loss, but also just how much she inspired me.

And I would never, I don't think have had this opportunity unless Barbara Walters had existed. And so many women have followed in her steps that also paved the way for me to have the career and opportunities that I've had. What did she say in her letter? You know, I got to go back and find it, but I think it was sort of, I think it was pretty straightforward, like a congratulations you have made it and good luck. Yeah.

I remember Oprah called me too. And, first of all, she sent those giant roses. Did she? Oprah sends these roses, you know, they could like make up a table. I mean, it's got to be like a thousand roses or something like this. You know, they're just like nothing you've ever seen in your life. But in only the way that Oprah can speak, as you know, because I know how much you love Oprah, too. She told me and helped me understood what would be my own power.

It said, you will be traveling the world, telling us at home about the most important stories in the world. That is power. And when I left the evening news, we talked to because she said she was, worked out every day to watch. She's like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Who am I going to work out to now? I watch you while I'm working out and watching the evening news. So, but I think that story is important too, because when women support women, great things happen. I actually have that t-shirt. I should have worn it today. I should have worn it today. And I do think we need the constant encouragement of our friends and fellow women. And not just privately, but publicly too. And getting to

the top is hard. Getting anywhere is hard. And what women do really well is friendships. And so let's keep doing it privately and publicly because we certainly need, you know, more women in the, you know, middle management, upper management, in power to help not only change business, change the world, change legislation, all of it. Yeah. You know, I, I think, I love what you just shared about supporting women privately, supporting them publicly. And one of the things I love is I think even when it's women that we've never met and stories maybe that are from, you know, this year or 100 years ago, when you read the stories, the women that you are highlighting in your new book, We the Women, I felt like I had all these women that I could lean on because of what they've

gone through. And so can you share for everyone listening and watching right now, what inspired you to write we, the women. And what did you discover in writing it? Oh, I discovered so much. You know, we the women began as this way of thinking about America 250. You know, we're celebrating America's 250th birthday and the Declaration of Women. And I thought, well, let me write about all the women that we don't know about. And so to shine a spotlight on women's voices and women's stories.

But I had no idea that in researching this book, excavating these stories, that in some ways, too, it would unlock something within myself. And, you know, I worked with Kate and Julie and a team of people to sort of put, it was almost three years of excavating these stories. And, of course, listening to Taylor Swift while writing. I would lock in with headphones on like a Saturday or Sunday. My husband would check in on me, and I would just be like, you know. writing away. But I think what I learned is that, as Harriet Beecher Stowe said, women are the great architects of society.

They are. And women have been throughout our history a force for positive change in the world, even when they had absolutely no rights. And so I hope that this book, too, because we break it up into 50-year parts, that you can kind of rediscover history. Yeah. And also the stories of women are kind of in short little bursts too. So they're great for discussion. And if you're like me, I can only read like 30 pages before I fall asleep. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that kind of a book. Yeah. I love that you can also just like open it up to any page and read and all of a sudden you're inspired. Absolutely.

of those books where it's like when you get it home, what I plan to do is like keep it on my coffee table or give it to every woman in my life. And this is across generations. This is all ages of women. And of course, when you read it cover to cover, it's inspiring. But it's like one of those books too where if you're just like, I need some hope today. I need some strength today. I need some grit today. I need some resilience today. Just like flip it open to any page. Read about the woman on that page. And I'm telling you like it's just, I don't know, It's powerful and these stories are true. And we're in a time, I think, in our country where a lot of us need some hope right now.

A lot of us need some hope and to feel like we're not alone in what's happening and just all of it. And so I want to ask you, you know, with the 250 years that we're talking about, America's birthday, 250 years, what did you learn in particular that maybe you didn't learn in history in school? We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your

hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build a little, your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your

greatness and step in to the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt, an unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank-you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious. and so is self-belief.

And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter. That's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you.

If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful. And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing.

And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love. And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life when filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence,

and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com slash resources or click the link in the show notes below. And now more of this incredible conversation together With the 250 years that we're talking about America's birthday, 250 years, what did you learn in particular that maybe you didn't learn in history in school? Well, a lot I didn't know truly about the revolutionary period, you know, and that's because there's been so little study about women, you know, certainly the founding of America and America's revolution. That really, that field of women's history is really only about 30 years old. And that's because women's stories weren't considered important until just recently. In fact, part of the problem we had is that people didn't save women's letters or women's

diaries because women's stories weren't considered important. And that's like my heart kind of hurts saying that. But one of the great stories that we discovered and we start the book is that there's actually a woman's name on the Declaration of Independence. We all say, maybe you've heard like sign your John Hancock here, right? And so we know John Hancock's name is on the Declaration of Independence, right? And Adams and all these other founding fathers. But what about the founding mothers?

And it turns out that Mary Catherine Goddard printed the first official Declaration of Independence that has all the signatories on there. And remember back then, that was an act of treason to put your name on a date. declaration of independence from the British. So she was brave too and courageous. And I've never heard that story before. And the National Women's History Museum says that only 15% of what is taught in school focuses on the achievements and the legacy of women in history. So what if as a young girl I had learned more about these incredible, brave, courageous women. Would it have changed what I thought about who I could be? Maybe. Would it have made me dream of something different?

Because I dreamed of Barbara Walters because I saw her. But what if I had learned about these women, women who fought at war, who were engaged in politics to the power of their ideas? ideas, these scientists and others, what if I had learned about them, what I also dream of being those women. And so I hope that, you know, we can all learn about those women as sort of icons and because they, we dream learning the stories of other people. That's why we go to the movies. That's why we listen to podcasts, right? We're taking in all of this storytelling and information because it's not just entertainment. It's also learning. And so I want to put more of those women's stories out there in the universe. So many women that I hear from and girls, but really

women of all ages, all ages, talk about how the fear of rejection or failure or judgment or what other people might think kind of like holds them back from going for things. What did you learn through so many women's stories and we, the women, what did you learn about rejection and about how they handled it. Boy, I learned that rejection is universal. And it dates back to the founding of America. And Mary Catherine Goddard, whose name is on the Declaration of Independence, printed the first official broadside, as they call it.

She was also the postmaster. She delivered all the mail. She was then fired from her position and replaced by a man. She wrote a letter to George Washington. Here she was fired, rejected. She writes to George Washington asking for her job back. The governor of Maryland writes on her behalf too. And she decries what she calls this extraordinary act of oppression towards her,

which historians say may have been the first time that a woman talked about oppression. And she never got her job back. But I do think, like there her name is forged in ink on parchment. You know, she helped give birth to this nation and we should honor her. But other stories of rejection, I mean, Elizabeth Blackwell was the first woman to graduate from medical school in America. She was rejected for more than 10 medical schools because she was a woman. She only got in, as we tell the story in the book, it was a joke that they let her in. Like literally, they thought it was a joke.

She persevered, she graduated, she founded a hospital. And today, if you ask people like my sister, who's a doctor, on February 3rd is National Women's Physicians Day, they get out of cake. Like if you work with other doctors, they get out of cake and they celebrate her birthday. And now a majority of graduates of medical school in America are female. So Elizabeth Blackbow was the first,

and the men in her class thought she was crazy. But she has inspired countless women and inspires them today. Like that's awesome. But she was faced rejection at every turn. So often we think, you know, we get rejected or we think we get one no or someone doesn't believe in us or we try and it doesn't go our way. And after one time or two times or five times we think like, oh, we don't have what it takes

or we never should have even tried or any of that. And I think that, you know, one of the reasons I was so passionate about sharing my story of, you know, building a business is because it was like it looks great in the headlines, but the number of rejections, the number of setbacks, the number of knows. And I remember after sharing, starting to share that part of my story, the number of people that were just like, you know, I'm inspired to keep going. I'm inspired to get up and try again. I'm inspired to launch that idea or raise my hand at work tomorrow or, you know, whatever it might be. The grit, the tenacity, but the huge setback some of these women have faced.

I mean, you know, I know you can't compare despair, but some of us think that there's hard times now. some of the things these women fought through dealt with the setbacks, the judgment, the discrimination, the rejection, and they still, they still kept going. What do you think it was, Nora, for, if you were to pull a through line through a lot of the women in their stories in here, that had them believe they were worthy of continuing fighting for what they believed in or going after what they wanted or putting themselves out there? You know, I love your bookworthy. And I do think, you know, like rejection is redirection, right? When one door closes, perhaps another one opens.

And I think for myself and others, the first thing about rejection too is having friends, family around you that tells you keep going, right? Building that support system around you to help your own belief system, right? To keep going, to keep asking. I tell my kids, if you don't ask, you don't get.

Just keep asking, right? Keep asking. You just got to keep going. I love that. Keep going. And so there's countless, you know, stories of, as you point out, you know, rejection, but then redirection in a great way. And one of the stories that I tell in the book is of Constance Baker Motley, an incredible

civil rights icon. I mean, she was Martin Luther King Jr.'s lawyer. I've never heard of her until recently. I mean, you know Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous, I have a dream speech in 1963. Who's standing beside her, beside him? Constance Baker Motley. She was litigating almost every major fight of the civil rights movement.

She worked under Thurgood Marshall. Everybody knows Thurgood Marshall, right? First black judge on the Supreme Court. She worked with him at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. He gets brought to the Supreme Court. Many people thought she should become the head of the NAACP, legal defense fund. They put another man in that spot. So what does she do? She ends up becoming New York State Senator, then gets appointed to the federal bench. She becomes the first black

woman on a federal bench. And then who does she end up inspiring? Katanji Brown Jackson reads about her as a little girl. And now Katanji Brown Jackson is on the U.S. Supreme Court. Kamala Harris read about Constance Baker-Mautly as a little girl. So, you know, I read those stories and thought, how did I not ever learn about Constance Baker Motley when I was growing up? Like, I would have written papers about her. Like, what a great story. I mean, we have a smallish chapter on her,

but she deserves dozens of biographies on her and children's books about her. And, you know, but for her rejection meant redirection, and she wouldn't have made it to the federal bench if she had been able to replace their good marshal at the NWACP legal defense fund or may have just been a different path. Wouldn't they even not refer to her by name,

like in the courtroom, and she'd have to correct people? Yes, that's right. That's right. When she was defending MLK Jr., people couldn't believe that down in the South that a black woman who had a degree from Columbia was there as a lawyer. You know, who's that lady lawyer, as many women in, you know, legal profession have faced. But, I mean, there should be a movie about her, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. Can you talk also just about turning pain into purpose and also perseverance?

I think we all know about this in our own life, dealing with pain. And you're certainly feeling the feels, as we say, are good. But then how to turn that into perseverance. And while most of the stories in my book are about hidden heroes. We did write a whole chapter on Eleanor Roosevelt. Because it's so good, right? And again, like, I did learn about Eleanor Roosevelt in school, but talking about turning pain into power and perseverance. I mean, her mother would put her down at parties. Her mother was a celebrated beauty. And when Eleanor Roosevelt would walk into the room as a child. Her mother would call her, oh, look, isn't she a funny child just like granny? And Eleanor Roosevelt said I would want to sink through the floor. She marries FDR, has six children in 10 years.

Then she finds out he's cheating on her with Lucy Mercer. She offers him a divorce. They decide to stay together for his political career. He gets polio. She nurses him through that, helps him run for governor, helps him get elected president of United States. States, and then really becomes the most powerful female political figure for 50 years. So talk about turning pain from her childhood. Her parents also died at an early age into perseverance. I mean, I'm giving myself the goosebumps. I am to you right now. Do you see my arm? I'm giving myself, in addition to also having that many children of her own, you know, she invited women into the White House, you know, to advise her president. She had press conferences

on her own. She had more than 300 press conferences. She traveled the world during World War II, Eleanor Roosevelt, to meet with troops in all these far-flung areas. She lost 30 pounds on, you know, a month-long trip visiting with soldiers.

She was the shadow commander-in-chief in so many ways. So Eleanor Roosevelt, to me, I mean, I've seen statues of her, and so I think of her as this, you know, longest-serving First Lady in America. But she dealt with a lot of pain. and rejection. And she persevered. And she wrote newspaper columns and had her own radio show.

And she persevered and did great things for this country. She's a hero of mine, a real hero. Another hero of yours, another incredible woman, your grandma, who immigrated from Ireland to the U.S. in the 30s. She boarded a boat all alone to America in a week-long. boat ride over the Atlantic. Can you talk about your grandma's journey, about her being greeted by the Statue of Liberty? Yeah, I talk about my grandma because talk about women who had it really hard. And, you know, my grandparents were Catholics growing up in Protestant-controlled Northern Ireland. And my grandma, Mary Teresa, was the oldest girl of nine kids. And she started working at 18. 12, you know, walking through barbed wire and barricades to work in a linen factory at age 12.

And she never made it past eighth grade, but somehow she was smart enough to know she had to come to America. And so in her early 20, she boards a boat all by herself. I mean, this is 1930. Like, you don't have a cell phone or you don't know where you're going. I mean, and I just think of her, and I think, wow. I hope that when she pulled into New York Harbor, the first thing she saw there was the Statue of Liberty. You know, a woman holding a torch. And I hope that she thought, oh, I made the right decision, you know?

And my grandma worked for many years in a medical facility for people who were mentally ill. And she had a really hard job and a really hard life. But she was, as my mom still says to the day, was really the kindest woman in the world. And I hope that the bravery that brought my grandmother across the Atlantic is also the same bravery that lives in all of the women in this book, that persevered and persisted despite doubts and discrimination and just kept going. And that's why I say that women really are the most positive force for change.

And that's the message that I want to come out of this. is because women rely on community, family, friendships, and can be a very positive force for change. You say that if you could travel back in time, you'd hold your grandma's hand and tell her it's going to be okay. Do you ever, channel's not the right word, do you ever feel her strength like through you and to your children? Yeah. And it's kind of a thing when you get older, you know, you think of your, grandparents and your parents by maybe holidays or I used to, you know, visit my grandma who lived in Queens, New York. And I remember her house and these little strawberries that she had growing

in the back of a little teeny house, you know, but she had little strawberry plants. And I think of my grandmother like that and just how sweet she was. But I, when I learn more and more about her story, how brave. How incredibly brave. And how hard working. hard working. I mean, my mom tells stories, too, that sometimes they didn't have enough food growing up. And that changes who you are. You know, that kind of thing changes how you are. So, as we say, amongst the women I work with, never been a lazy girl.

Never been a lazy girl. Never been a lazy girl. We got it on coffee cups, yeah. So women are incredibly hardworking, too. really hardworking. And, you know, that's the other thing I felt about the women in this book. Like, we need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that

they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected, more inspired, and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter. That's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes.

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The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. Now more of this incredible conversation together. Women are incredibly hardworking too, really hardworking. And, you know, that's the other thing I felt about the women in this book. Like, some were lucky to be educated, you know, because women certainly didn't have the right to go to college. But some were educated, some were not, but all of them were just, I mean, in addition to being brave, just really hard workers. You know, when you talk about your grandma not having a cell phone, right?

Being all alone on this week-long voyage going from Ireland to the U.S. and pulling in, you know, and you imagine her seeing the Statue of Liberty. I mean, imagine being on a voyage like that. And it just... Well, I asked my mother. I'm like, how do grandma know where to go? Yeah. And she was like, you know, the story that we told us that they knew the Bradley's,

and the Bradley's owned a bar, and that when she got through Ellis Island, she was just supposed to go to the bar. And you just met somebody there, and they told you what to do. I mean, I wish when my grandma was alive, I mean, she died when I was a teenager, I wish I had sat down with her and asked her all these questions. Yeah. I just wish I knew the story. We don't know the story.

And that's really what we found. I know so little about my grandmother's life. Yeah. And sort of the grit and perseverance. And that was part of this too, is like trying to excavate these stories of women, which are so incredibly important, just not only for American history,

but also so that we can learn from them. The power of stories to you, and I'm going to read this because, believe it or not, a lot of Americans actually don't know this poem that's on the beautiful words of Emma Lazarus that are on the Statue of Liberty. And as I'm reading We the Women, I'm imagining your grandma coming over here, and you talk about seeing the Statue of Liberty.

I'm going to read the New Colossus, which is on the plaque of the Statue of Liberty. Here are the words of that, not like the brazen giant of Greek fame with conquering limbs astride from land to land. Here at our sea-washed sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch. whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name, mother of exiles. From her beacon hand glows worldwide welcome. Her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that Twin Cities frame. Keep ancient lands your storied pomp, cries she with silent lips.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door. When you are reminded of those words, what do you think? Give me your tired, poor huddled masses yearning to be free. Written by a woman, Emma Lazarus, who by the way, that poem wouldn't have ended up on the Statue of Liberty. if or not for another friend, another woman who made sure it got on that statue. But I think about it, you know, my own grandmother, an immigrant from Northern Ireland,

fleeing religious persecution as a Catholic. My grandfather did not come through Ellis Island. He came through illegally, through Canada, and was a stowaway on a boat, almost kind of like Titanic. My grandfather was one at the bottom of the boat. And so this is a nation built on immigrants. It's built on Irish immigrants, all kinds of immigrants from all over the world. And that's my family and who had almost no education, really, my grandparents.

And so it's very much imbued in my sense of upbringing because my mom had to work her way to get. get through, you know, college and get her way to medical school where she met my dad. And so that was very much a sense of you have a lot to give back to America. And I hope in some ways, too, I'm giving something back with this book. But I also think, you know, my grandmother, as I write about in the final chapter, just about the arc of history, hear my grandmother, Mary Teresa, who never made it past the eighth grade and worked as an orderly, essentially, in a mental hospital. Her name is my sister's name, and my sister who's 10 years younger than me, and my sister is now

the chief surgeon at a hospital. And I wish my grandmother knew that. I think my mom had something to do with making sure that her last child had my grandmother's name. But also, and feeding all of that love and hope into her daughters. And now my sister spends her days saving people's lives, making their lives better, you know, trying to cure them of cancer. And there's this through line, as you say. And I hope, too, that that's the point of studying these stories, is that maybe you see part of yourself and these women in this,

book, maybe you say, oh, maybe that's not what I'm doing right now, but maybe I do want to do that. I'm going to change careers and become this kind of person. Or maybe I'm going to help my children see those stories so that they can follow and build their own dreams. It unlocked something new for me. It did. And thinking of your grandma who immigrated here as an orderly in a mental hospital, like working so hard for all those years, and then your sister with the same. name. He's like running things. Yeah. Pretty incredible. Yeah.

And I do think, you know, too, this is as caregivers. You know, my grandmother was a caregiver. And my sister as a doctor is a caregiver. And women are caregivers of our community and the health of our nation. And those words in the declaration of independence, those 13 words, right, but all men are created equal, which women, of course, and women are created equal, right? Those are the most important words in human history. And the whole history of the past 250 years of America has been trying to live up to those ideals

in the Declaration of Independence. And I believe women have been at the center of that. Do you think those words and the promise that's sitting there on the plaque of the Statue of Liberty right now, do you think those words ring true right now? I do. I do. I think America is the greatest country in the world. It's why everybody wants to come to America. There are opportunities in America that don't exist anywhere else. But as a journalist, I know democracy. is messy. I also studied philosophy, so I also know democracy can be messy. But that's part of the process. And that's why people have fought and died for the right to vote. And women fought and died. Women were the leaders of the abolitionist movement early on, the leaders of the suffragist movement to make sure that women could get the right to vote. And even when women did get the right to vote with the 19th Amendment in 1920, black women and Native American

or indigenous women didn't have the right to vote. And that's the right to vote. And that the And so the power of the vote, of your vote, of all of our votes, is so incredibly important. And, you know, politics can be divisive, but it can also be unifying. And I've in my, oh my gosh, how old am I? I'm 52. So I guess now, you know, 30 years. Happy birthday. Thank you.

30 years of covering politics. I've seen it all. I've interviewed every living president. I've seen both parties in control. I've been able to interview them because I have the respect and trust on both sides. And you see how engaged Americans are and what happens in not only their communities, other communities. And that drives more and more people to the polls every year. And that's a good thing. Being involved, speaking up is a really good thing, letting your voice be heard. That's part of the process. Do you think our elections are still fair?

I do, yeah. Yeah. I do. I'm going to ask you about your interviews in a minute and so many of the incredible people you've interviewed. But I want to ask you about what I'm assuming is your favorite man in your life, which is your husband. You met while attending Georgetown. You've been married 25 years. That's right.

To Jeff. Jeff. To Jeff. Chef Jeff. It happens to rhyme. Tell us about Jeff. Oh, well, you know, I grew up in San Antonio, Texas. So even though my parents are from New York, I consider myself a Texas girl.

And then went to Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. And here I meet this boy, as my friend say, you're dating a Yankee? That's what growing up in the South. You're dating a Yankee? And, you know, I've been with Jeff for so long, and I think the incredible thing about our partnership is, is I married my best friend. And someone who has supported me through my career

has been an equal partner in marriage and parenthood. Maybe sometimes has done even more than equal. And look, we want to spend our lives with partners who make us better at what we do, make us better parents, make us better people. And that's ultimately, I think, the secret to our long marriage. Plus, he also makes really good bacon and pancakes for breakfast and great dinners. And, you know, don't.

I love a man that can cook. Love a man that can cook. Absolutely. And he takes the dogs out in the morning so that I can stay in bed. Because after anchoring a morning show for seven years, I like to luxuriate in bed in the morning. And so I am very grateful for my husband who takes the dogs out in the morning. That's amazing. And he supports you listening to Taylor Slift all writing, be the women.

Of course, yes. And would bring me coffee, would bring me coffee. Yes, while I was just typing away. And he read the early copy of the book as well and enjoyed it. In your Georgetown commencement, you mentioned that he, when you guys were dating in college, he would leave you sticky notes, like post-it notes with encouraging words, and he still does that to this day. He does.

You know, and isn't that so sweet, too? I mean, and I think about this in life, too, we all need lots of sticky notes. notes of encouragement. And I met a guy who would leave them all over my dorm room. And it's one of been one of the most effective and rewarding parts of my life is learning to write more notes myself to people and letting them know how much I appreciate them and the work that they do. And so I think we all know it, but it goes, should not go without saying again, every time you say thank you to someone in person, whether they're the barista or it's the person at the gas station or a doctor or nurse that looks really busy and it's not actually maybe paying too much attention to you while you're standing in line waiting to, you know, check in. They deserve a thank you. Because it goes a long way. and almost every big interview that I've been able to do followed not only the notes of bookers and producers, but also handwritten notes by myself to people asking for an interview.

So Pope Francis was an interview. My dad's name is Francis. And so I wrote to Pope Francis for 10 years hoping for an interview. And it wasn't until just, you know, a few months before we actually got the first. final interview that with the encouragement of my producer to say, you know, maybe you should be more personal in your note. Talk about how your mom and you have three kids and that you went to Georgetown and talk about, you know, growing up Catholic and be more personal. And so it's just a reminder that writing and I make my kids write handwritten notes and sometimes it takes them a long time to get it done.

But they do it because writing thank you notes and writing notes and asking for what you want or that kind of communication is so incredibly important. One story of Joe Biden, who I knew covering Congress, he was a senator for a long time, I knew his son, Bo Biden, who died in his 40s of brain cancer when Joe Biden was vice president. I wrote the vice president then a handwritten note about Bo's passing and how sorry I was,

a condolence note. And I then did the first interview with Vice President Joe Biden and Dr. Biden when he announced that he would not run for president in 2015. That's when then Hillary Clinton ended up running against Donald Trump the first time. And then Donald Trump won his first term in office. And when I got that 60 Minutes interview with Joe Biden where he announced on 60 Minutes in this interview that he was not going to seek the presidency, at the end I said, thank you so much, Mr. Vice President, for doing the interview with us. he said, I've had your handwritten note on my desk. So if that isn't a reminder,

and I wrote on my handwritten note about his son passing, not, you know. And so personal connection is incredibly important all the time. And I think when we're this new era of text and emails, that's okay too. But I hope the handwritten note that that old craft that those of us do that still continues. A handwritten note or a thank you note is still a great thing to do. You know, I'm reminded when I was building at cosmetics, we were so small, so tiny, no one had heard of us, just scrappy. And I'd seen the then head of L'Oreal, Carol Hamilton, give this big presentation on, she'd just got back from Harvard and she was doing her top 10 all-time favorite

products at this huge beauty industry event. And I remember I wrote her a handwritten note, told her how much I appreciated her talk. And the only problem with it was that it cosmetics was not on her top 10. And if she actually tried it, she would love it. And I'd be so on it, like on and on and on and on. But I really, you know, thanked her for her talk as well and sent her some products. Fast forward. Gosh, how many years was it? Nora, several years later, we met for the first time. And then we did meetings and meetings and meetings. And years later, L'Oreal acquired at cosmetics. and she kept that note. She kept that handwritten note.

And I was just like astonished. But I think it's so rare that people take the time and they take the care and they do something personal. So I think that that's really, and it's free. Yes. It's free. We can all do it. Yes. Yeah.

I think there's also something in the handwriting of a note that does something for the person writing the note. you're spending the extra time to get the cursive right so that it looks good sometimes i have to go through a couple of versions because my cursive is not that great but it does something in the person once again slowly signaling your intention about what you want and then the receiver also knows that that means your intention is clear it's not an email It's a handwritten note. You really want it. Or you're really grateful.

Or you're really sad about what they've been going through. Or you're really celebrating their great new birth of a child or whatever it may be. And so while certainly I can myself be better about writing more handwritten notes, I have lots of handwritten notes that are half written across my desk all the time. Do you? I do. And it usually takes us like to the end of January. to get out the Christmas thank you notes, you know.

It's still really important. Yeah. Really, really important. Yeah. I got to get your address so I make sure I send you a thank you note. Same, same. But I just cherish, you know, I think I'm thinking just right now, you know, for the first time about this and just I cherished handwritten things. Like, you know, even things my mom wrote out a recipe, my mom's no longer with us.

I mean, I cherish what she wrote, like anything that she wrote. Yes. I remember the first handwritten note from Oprah. I was like, it's really her signature. It's real. It's real. Like, something about handwriting. My, and, you know, talking about our feelings and the way we write things.

So I am from San Antonio, Texas. I talk to my seven best friends every day. We text each other. We're on a text chain called Texas Peeps. And one of my friends, Allison, she is married to this guy, Jason, that I was in love with. In love with. Everybody was in love with them. I mean, he was the guy.

And this is in like seventh grade. Okay. So at our 20th high school reunion, she was like, Jason's not here, but he saved the letter you wrote him like pouring out your love for him. It is hilarious. But I mean, I'm so glad that he has it because it just signals how silly and in love and crazy you are is like a seventh grader. And it's awesome. Yes. And it's this long, you know, big bubble writing on like a yellow notepad paper.

and I think like purple marker or something, you know. Yeah. But I love it because I'm like, who's that girl? Who's that teenager who was just so sweet? And Madely in love with, in her seventh grade love kind of way. With Jason. Yeah. She was now married to Allison and love her.

In your Texas peeps group. I love this. How long have you known the other women in that group? My oldest friend is Rebecca. I've known her since before first grade. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know, some of them for elementary school and all of them, at least through since middle school. And they've been with you through all this. Through all of it. Yeah. And you're just like, yeah, just sitting down with another president today. And they're like, yep, that's Nora. Do they just think it's Nora?

I mean, yeah, they love it all. I mean, some of them don't catch everything that's on, you know, TV because they're busy. but we try to get together every couple of years. Actually, the funniest story is I was actually just at, you'll appreciate the story. I don't know if you'll end up using it, but I was actually just at the Kennedy Center Honors. And I turned to my right, and Miranda Lambert is sitting there

with her husband, who is the hot cop from New York. And I'm like, I was like, I hope you don't mind me saying this. First of all, Miranda, I'm your biggest fan ever. but Mr. Hot Cop, I was like, you took a picture with me in the Texas Peeps in New York when you were still a cop. And then texting my friends and they send the picture. I'm like, here it is. Wow. Yeah. So, as you can tell, my best friends, they keep the evidence, the pictures, the letters. They've got it all. Oh, my gosh. I love it. Do they give you feedback on your interviews? Like, oh, this or that or whatever. They do. Yeah, they do. And their opinions? Yeah, but they're,

you know, the great, my Texas peeps friends, they are very faithful, prayerful, positive people. So I don't think they've ever said a negative word in their life, really, like just even in person. They are just the most loving, amazing people. Yeah. So it's usually the text chain is just about a lot of positivity, which is awesome. And, you know, and as you get older, we all have. have challenges in our lives, so it's nice to have friends that we send each other, while not post-it notes, texts of positivity that keep you going. And you can trust. And you can trust. Yeah, because there's that history. You have three children. Grace, Henry, and Riley. And, you know, thinking about your grandma, your mom, your sister, you, when you think about Grace and Henry,

and Riley, what do you hope, let's say someone were to ask them 50 years from now about who their mom is, what do you hope they say? Oh, wow. You know, I wrote in the dedication in this book that it was for my mother and my grandmother and to my daughters to let them know that nothing is impossible. and I hope, you know, my kids will get from me the belief that nothing's impossible and to not let anybody stand in the way of their dreams. Now, this didn't work well when they were toddlers. Because if you don't ask, you don't get, you know, there was a lot of asking until they got the answer that they wanted. Yeah. So as one Montessori's school, school teachers said to me, you know, I don't negotiate with children, but your daughter, I've started to negotiate with her. She's pretty tough. Were you so proud? I actually was really proud. Yeah.

So, but I do hope my husband has a saying, good manners, good behavior, everything else is fun. So that's kind of, I hope that's the lesson that we've taught them. Be a good person. good manners, good behavior, and then everything else can be fun. And I mean that's, I know that sounds simple in some ways, but it's sort of like do the right thing, be kind, take care of one another. You have to do the dishes and take out the trash.

And one child is in charge of keeping the refrigerator in the pantry organized. There are rooms, the varying degrees of, success on that. But, you know, I hope they know that, as I told them on my birthday recently, that I never thought I could love you more than the day you were born. But when you become adults, it's like a whole other thing. And I had no idea that my heart could get even bigger. And that's the great thing about parenthood. Sometimes you don't think you could love your kids more and then it just, you do. And that's,

That's life. That's the journey of life. Can your heart expand? Are you proud of them? So proud. And it's the one thing I make sure I tell them every day. I love you. And if I'm sitting at my desk early in the morning and they're rushing off to school at 7.30,

I jump up and say, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I love you and I'm proud of you. You can never say that enough to anybody. I love you and I'm proud of you. How do they feel about everything that you do professionally? Are you cool? Or are they just like, I remember Barack Obama just saying his kids are like, whatever. Your president, whatever.

You know, I actually think they think it's pretty cool. Yeah. I think they think it's pretty cool. I mean, sometimes I invite them to some things and they don't want to come. And I'm like, I think you should come to that. but the one thing too is they get older I mean they're still 17 and 18 so they're still young is that they now follow the news pretty closely now they follow it from different sources perhaps than what you know I follow right because they're getting a lot more from

TikTok and other social media feeds but I'm glad that they're engaged and look I want to introduce them to all kinds of people who do all different kinds of things, you know, not just in the media. Yeah. But people who are creators and entrepreneurs and artists and people who reach for their dreams, athletes, you know, great athletes, too. What keeps you up at night? Almost everything. Yeah? Yeah, I do. I'm a little bit of a worrywart, maybe undiagnosed anxiety. Yeah, I do. I worry a lot. And I think part of, honestly, I think most of what I have done is channeled my fear through life.

I think it's one of, I think I have, you know, I think my superpower is listening. And then I think I've been able to channel fear. Fear of failure, I've channeled it into just studying work. You know, for me, I always say, preparation builds confidence and confidence equals success. And so sometimes I'll work myself into a tizzy preparing, but it gives me confidence. So sometimes I wish I'd worried less. What do you mostly worry about? I think I'm, well, I think lately, you know, I worry about my kids, you know, I worry about their health and safety and You know, I worry about people's well-being.

I think for the most part, people are really happy and loving people and care deeply about their community. I think that there is so much information that's now we're intaking. You know, I'd love to go back to the days of just the three powerful networks, ABC, NBC and CBS and CBS. Right. But now we have multiple sources, which is a good thing. You know, we have multiple sources of of information out there. But because there's, we're sort of like sipping from a fire hose of information, right? Think about that metaphor. It's just coming at us. And social media is feeding a lot of that to us, the most disturbing images that is giving a lot of us a great deal of anxiety and concern about what's happening in the world. Now, some of that is good to know what's happening in the

world because it may cause you to get involved or go out and vote or donate money or change your career or whatever may be, but some of it does become anxiety producing. So we've got to find the right way to modulate that. So lately what I've done recently, you know, because I do worry a lot, is I try and read more. I'm trying to do just that, which is to put down the phone and read great books. I heard about this great book coming out called We the Women. Oh, yeah. Actually, that's what I've been doing.

Actually, for three years. I didn't have anxiety writing it, but it certainly, I think, probably kept me busy over the last three years or else I would have been in a major heightened state of anxiety. Yeah. Can you talk about the role of faith in your life? Yes. I mean, I grew up, I grew up Catholic and went to church every Sunday. I can remember even when I had chicken pox, my father's an infectious disease doctor, he would say,

no, you're not infectious. And I'd be like, Dad, but I've got all these like scars. And he'd be like, it's okay, you can sit in the back. You're not contagious. It's okay. And I can always remember in Sunday school coloring the picture of God with all the little children, and God is for everyone, no matter what. And I don't go to church now as regularly as I did, you know, growing up.

But I believe faith is an incredibly important thing that sustains many of us. But for me, it's been less about going to church than it's more been the values that I learned growing up, which is love for each and every individual, which is what my parents, espouse every day of their life, no matter what, to see people for who they are. My mom has always said, it does not matter what is on the outside. It matters what is on the inside, work on what's on the inside. Do you feel like you know a certainty God is real? It's a good question. I'm not sure that I've explored that, even though my husband was a theology major. I think my face, I think my face, Faith is real.

I do. And, you know, with my friends who I text with every day from Texas, we talk a lot about God and faith and send each other prayerful messages. And I know how much that faith sustains me and my friends. And it would have been some tough times. Yeah. I guess if we had absolute certainty, we wouldn't need faith, right? That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel about it? Gosh, I was raised going to church. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and, you know, and I used to sit in service and just like scan all the pews for cute boys and none of the, you know, it was all of it. And I, but I never, I went to, not only did I go to Catholic Church, I went to Baptist church camp because that was where, that's where the boys were. That's where the boys were.

And, you know, and then later in life, you know, going to graduate school, living in New York City, and being around people of all different faces. A lot of people have no faith at all. And a lot of people I was around thought, well, if you have really strong faith, you must just not be that smart. And yeah, and I started, like, I went through this long season where I was like doubting God existed. And it wasn't until someone once said to me, like, what makes you think God can't handle your doubt? Like why don't you try telling him, you doubt him, and just to prove you wrong, you're in a shadow of a doubt. So it was a number of years where if I was praying for a friend or their health or whatever was going on, I would end my prayer, Nora, and I would say, and by the way, God, I'm doubting you exist. So if you could please show up and prove me wrong, be on a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful. In Jesus' name, amen.

I used to literally end my prayers that way. And I could do 10 podcasts. I never have done this. but I could do, I could talk for hours on the ways that I now have absolute, like, belief. There's a, so many ways God has shown up in my life, like, where it just is indisputable. I mean, there's so many stories I have now where I'm like, okay, okay, okay, you know, things that have happened, people that have come into my life, people that have favored that has happened in my life where the person just said to me, listen, I don't even know why I'm doing this,

but I felt like God told me, I need to do this for you. It's just been so many stories like that where I'm like, okay, all right. I think what you're describing too, which is the way I see faith, is it walks alongside you. You know, some people describe the footprints in the sand or holding your hand. And you asked me kind of about what I worry about. And so a lot of times now when I wake up in the middle of the night, I say the Lord's prayer. Or now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.

And if I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul. to take. And I frequently say that at night. Yeah. And it is almost a form of, while prayer, it's also a form of meditation. And praying for the health of family, friends, all of that is like that person walking alongside you or the faith walking alongside you as a partner in life. That's how I think of kind of my spirituality. That's beautiful. I'd say that same example. I'd say that same exact prayer. That was the prayer I was taught growing up. Now I lay me down to sleep. Yeah. And I'm saying it a lot of times. I think I'm falling asleep early. And then when I wake up in the middle of the night, then I say my. Then you say it. You know, it's funny. My prayer.

So I say, don't grab my phone. Right. My toolbox of prayers has expanded a little, like 50 cents grandma once said either pray or worry, but don't do both. And I was like, oh. So now when I find myself worrying, I'm like, well, I just prayed about it, but if I'm still going to worry, it means I'm not trusting God. It means I think I have to carry it all myself. So I'll like literally remember that quote. So yeah, prayers can come from everywhere. I think one of the interesting things too, from a journalistic perspective, too, is that, you know, one of the reasons that we're looking at what people view is a lot of division in America is because we are not, we're not associating people who may disagree with our political views anymore as we did in the past because less people

are going to church. We now see communities where you're living amongst people who are very, who share the same political philosophy of you as you, or maybe in the same financial bracket as you. They drive the same type of car. We're living in social media where it is feeding us the same set of belief systems back because of an algorithm. Yes. So I think one of the most important things is am I exposing myself to people who may believe something differently than me? And shouldn't we be doing that? So being a listener, right? And realizing that social media is, you know, I like working out.

You know, I'm interested in menopause and perimenopause and I like golf. So I'm getting fed all this stuff because I've clicked on that, right? Mm-hmm. I'm not, it's not feeding me any baseball, right? You have seen every living U.S. president, world leaders, so many of the world's greatest thought leaders and most fascinating people firsthand. You've had intimate conversations with them. And from your perspective, I'm so curious how you truly feel about this. Do you feel as a country that we're moving in the right direction?

I think it's a Jamie you're very good at this I think what we've seen are really close elections the past couple times for a reason I think we're at probably one of the greatest moments of transition certainly in my lifetime and I think it is most exacerbated by financial inequality. So in the book we talk about abolitionist movement, the suffrage movement, and as predicted by some of the women in this book, the next will be about class struggle. And I think that's what's ultimately in a capitalistic democracy, what we're witnessing right now. A very strong pull between haves and have-nots and a growing wealth chasm in America. and that's what's leading to this deep polarization and deep fear.

James Talariko, who is a running for Senate in Texas right now, I heard him say recently the greatest divide in our country right now is not left versus right, it's top versus bottom. And he's talking about how so few people are controlling almost everything at the top and how that divides growing. what can everyone do about it right now? Well, it's a good question. I mean, you know, even we saw there was a substantial number of supporters of Bernie Sanders

who voted for Donald Trump in the last election. And that's a story about concern over what you just mentioned. So look, I don't, I'm a journalist, so I don't weigh in on what is my opinion. My job is to get interviews with the toughest people, the toughest people to get interviews with, ask tough but fair and respectful questions because I believe journalism is what we need to make democracy work. What does that mean?

Yeah. We need an electorate that can trust members of the media because it's hard to decipher what's the truth. And I want people to trust me and be able to say, okay, What does Nora say about this issue? Like what's the debate over health care, right? What's happening with health care?

That's a real debate. Yeah. What's happening over immigration policy? What's happening with our involvement around the world? I'm from a military family. So, you know, I believe there's a free flow of information. I believe there are a set of trusted news sources and everybody needs to be careful about knowing what is a trusted set of news sources

and be a consumer of that information in a smart way. Do you still believe that the First Amendment and freedom of the press is protected? I do. I do. And that is the very first amendment in the Bill of Rights amended to the Constitution, the very first amendment protects the role of the press. And, you know, I think about the ability that I have to be able to sit across from, whether it's the president of the United States or a foreign leader, I've interviewed presidents, prime ministers, princes, and been able to ask them tough questions. And I still have that, you know, ability to do that.

Now, is the press, are people pushing that? Yes. meaning are people pushing against that freedom of the press? Yes. People sewing doubt. Yes. Are journalists under threat sometimes? Yes. And that is a serious, unconscionable thing to do is to threaten someone, no matter who you are, right? But I am so hopeful. I am about the state of people still being able to exercise their democratic rights, and I still believe firmly in the job that I'm able to do. Do you feel that your job is harder now than it was five or ten years ago? Sure, sure. I think everybody probably feels like their job is harder.

But I think one of the most important things for me in this environment is my integrity, and I want people to be able to trust me as someone who is fair. And I work at that, you know. And I think that's why I've been able to interview Democratic presidents, Republican presidents, world leaders who will take the tough questions in a respectful way, but answer the tough questions. Yeah. I mean your career and everything that you brought to the table,

the types of interviews you've done with presidents on both sides of the aisle. I mean, it's, you are getting the biggest interviews of anyone in the country right now. I feel like you have the biggest.

You're, you're trying. I mean, the Pope was pretty good, but I mean, the Pope is amazing. But when you look at what's happening, I'll have to say, too, I think your team's doing a phenomenal job

of the clips going viral too on top of it. Your recent interview with President Trump and that going everywhere. I mean, you're doing the highest profile interviews, and you always have, and you are right now in this moment. Well, thank you, Jamie.

I really should say, though, that we like to say amongst everybody I work with teamwork makes the dream work, and none of us do anything alone. And I think we've just over many years worked with a group of people that I have enormous respect for and that work really hard. and if you can build the right team, you know, I think in anything you do in life, whether it's professionally or personally, you know, at home, I say that because I think that's important for working women. And I mean, I say team like your husband, whether it's whoever's helping you at home too, like you can achieve a lot, but nobody can do anything alone, ever.

there is no there is no eye and team as they say yeah so but thank you for saying that but honestly we really have I'm very fortunate to work for CBS News and work with the very best producers and you know sometimes we all take a lot of heat you know and but I happen to work with some really incredible

incredible people who make their job not only interesting successful, but also we care deeply about each other. Well, I have to ask this, and you'll know that better than anyone else. There's so much buzz and the microscope is really on CBS right now in a lot of ways. What can you tell us about that? You know, I have worked at CBS now for, oh, my goodness, probably almost 14 years and have had a great career, whether it was covering the White House,

anchoring the morning show, anchoring the evening news and working for 60 minutes. We have had a lot of leadership changes at CBS, and that has been challenging, not only for me, but I know for my colleagues. And I think with so many leadership changes, people are fearful about what the future means. This conversation with Nora O'Donnell is so incredible. We made it into more than one part. So if you want to be even more inspired to use your voice, believe you're worthy of it, and ignite that passion and courage inside of you on your own hero's journey in your life right now. If you want to add your own toolbox of wisdom and insights from the stories of these incredible hidden heroes who've changed the course of history, well, you are not going to want to miss this incredible part two of our conversation with Nora O'Donnell.

That's coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kernelima Show. Remember this episode's not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person you know because it can impact and change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app that you're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life, if you could please give it a rating or review, I love a great five-star review. I would be so, so grateful. And again, share it with everyone you believe in. Maybe it's another person in your life who could benefit from it or someone you know who's making a change in their career or marriage or health or just trying to get in touch with their story

and the power that's inside of them. Share it with your community online who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today. Before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now, exactly. as you are are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kernelima show. Here, I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you'd like,

because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. And I, love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kernlema show. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back.

Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step in to the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at Worthy book.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you.

It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamie kurnlema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.

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