The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - Good Communication Is Overrated—Try This Instead

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

I don’t want what sounds nice—I want what’s real. This episode is about stripping away the polish in conversations and showing up with integrity and authenticity. I break down why perfection actually hurts communication, how authenticity and integrity differ, and why your presence will always matter more than your technique. If you’ve ever caught yourself performing instead of connecting, this episode will help you return to what’s true. Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook  Thank you to our sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 40% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Pique. Head to https://PiqueLife.com/jefferson for 20% off. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my new book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Quick announcement. The Next Conversation Workbook is now available on sale for pre-order. As many of you know, my book, The Next Conversation, came out this year, and it was chosen as best books of 2025 for not only Barnes & Noble, but also Amazon. Well, this workbook is something that I've been working on behind the scenes to make sure that it's packed full of practical exercises and prompts to make sure that you argue less and talk more. You can get it wherever books are sold. and for you listeners, yes, all the links are down there in the show notes. And now, enjoy the episode. I don't want what sounds nice. I want what's real. Have you ever felt that before? In conversation where what you're grasping for is just the realness of it, rather than what sounds nice, what looks nice, the layer of shine, the polish, I don't want the icing. I want you to

cut to the chase. You felt that? In today's conversation, we're going to be talking all about integrity, authenticity, and how to show up better in conversations. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation, the one that changes everything. If you enjoy listening to episodes like this that want to improve your communication, like somebody who can't say the word communication, I'm going to ask that you find wherever you're listening the word subscribe and click it. And it is my promise to you that in exchange, I will make you a better communicator. Thank you very much. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth. I love Cozy Earth, and they've been a sponsor of this podcast for a long time now because

I use their products and they work. When I am looking for premium quality products for things that for me are adulting, I'm talking about bed sheets, I'm talking about bath towels, I'm talking about clothes, from coats to shoes, the hoodies, the sweatpants, all of that. That's what I That's the stage of life that I'm in, and I bet that's the stage of life you're in right now. And when we're going into these cold holidays, you need to have something that's cozy. So if you're like me and you like being warm, cozy and premium products, look no further than CozyEarth. Go to CozyEarth.com slash Jefferson, use the coach, jefferson for 40% off. That's cozyEarth.com slash jefferson, use the coach Jefferson for 40% off.

I've heard it said so many times in conversation, I just want real. I just want them to be real with me. What does that mean to you? You ever had that in conversation? You just think, I don't need to know all the details. I don't want you to have to rephrase it in this way that sounds nice or has to be perfect. I just want real. There are people that they have this robotic sense that when they have input A, they have to have output B.

And there has to be a sense of perfection in conversation. I'm going to tell you, number one, perfection is never the standard. In fact, perfection hurts your communication. It hurts your communication. Let me give you an example. If I were, and we may have used this example before, but I love it so much, so it's worth hearing again, especially for me. Imagine for a second, you can close your eyes if you're driving or walking, please don't. Imagine that you are an attorney.

There's two attorneys. You're on one side and I'm on the other, and there's a big jury out in front of us. And let's say instead of a jury of 12, we have a jury of 60 people. people. And I go up and now let's make you put you in the jury. You're the jury. Cool. I've changed it. You're the jury. Me and another attorney. I go up and say, ladies and gentlemen, this case is about what's right and what's wrong. And everything that you're going to hear my client did was perfect. With 100% correct, everything that they did was perfect. They did nothing wrong. And all the evidence is going to show that. Thank you very much. The next attorney gets up and

say, ladies and gentlemen, this is about what's fair. We're going to tell you that my, client didn't do everything right. There were some problems that they've learned, some bruises that they have. And we're going to talk about those and how we've learned about those, but what the other side's asking for is just simply not reasonable. And so we asked that you do what's fair in this case. Thank you very much. You as a journey, jury listening to me right now, you as a jury listening to me right now. Who would you rather listen to? Who would you rather trust? attorney A where everything is 100% perfect or attorney B who says,

I just want what's reasonable. Everybody chooses attorney B. Why? Because it's real. Nobody is 100% perfect. There's only one person that ever was. And when you think in time, when am I ever perfect in conversation,

it is rarely if ever. So what does that mean? We want authenticity in conversation. Number two, integrity and authenticity are not the same thing. Not the same thing. Now that we know that authenticity is what you want in conversation because it relates to us. Nobody relates to perfection in conversation.

We relate to struggle, right? If I tell you, if I begin my sentence with, hey, I just want to tell you, I'm struggling with this, I'm struggling with how to begin this. I'm struggling with how I feel about this. and I need your help sifting through this. What's naturally going to happen? You're going to want to help me.

If I ask for your help and I begin with that, begin the conversation with I'm struggling. I'm struggling to understand. I'm struggling to interpret. I'm struggling to comprehend. I'm struggling to wrap my mind around. And you know what happens? The other person automatically goes,

I relate to that. I relate to that. I have struggles too. I relate to that. I struggle. Number two, authenticity and integrity are not the same thing. Integrity says, am I acting in alignment with my values? Authenticity says, am I doing what is real?

Where integrity says, am I doing what's right? Authenticity says, am I being real? Am I acting in alignment with my true feelings, my true emotions, my true identity? integrity is the actions that a lot of people don't see. Authenticity is the transparency, that I am matching on the inside as I am on the outside, that you are seeing what is real with me. There are so many, myself included, it happens in conversation all the time where I, maybe you fake niceness, or you don't really feel like being nice.

You, or maybe you act like you're not frustrated. When you really are or you say that, yeah, I totally understand. That makes sense. When inside you're really confused, there are plenty of examples where you are not being authentic, you're not being real with how you're truly showing up, how you're really feeling in the conversation. Integrity says, am I, I know what is right, am I doing what's right? Integrity says, am I going to choose to tell the truth, even when lying would be so much easier? Am I walking in that integrity?

authenticity is, am I doing what is, am I laying myself open to say, this is how I truly feel about this? That end goes into kindness, right? That deep connection that we talked about, the nice versus kind. That's how you know that you're being kind is when it's related to absolutely you being authentic. You can't be kind and yet not be authentic. The two don't relate. Maybe you can be nice and not be authentic. but you can't do it with kindness because kindness is so much deeper. Now, before we continue, I want to take a second to tell you about Peak, P-I-Q-U-E. Now, you all know that I am a tea guy. Didn't expect that in my life. I've always thought I'm going to be coffee all the way,

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maybe it's your energy. Whatever it is, they have a tea that's specifically for that, and they load them up with prebiotics and probiotics to help make sure that you have a balanced system in you, and that's worth having. So it dissolves instantly, hot or cold, no steeping, no mess, just clean, powerful tea that works. Feel the holiday magic and unlock your healthiest glow with 20% off site wide for life, plus a complimentary exclusive holiday bundle. Go to peaklife.com slash Jefferson, that is P-I-Q-E-Life.com slash Jefferson, clear gut, clear head, clear conversations. And now back to the episode. So what we talked about was you have to understand that perfection is not the standard. We relate to the struggle. Begin your sentence with.

I am struggling with. Number two, authenticity and integrity. Not the same thing. They're related. Both of them say, is my inside matching my outside, am I active? Am I active? in alignment with me, with who I am, what I hold, but they ask two different questions. Authenticity says, am I being real? Integrity says, am I doing what is right to me? And am I acting just? Number three, and that's the reason I mention this,

and the reason I want you to know that is because there are many that ask me, you know, I want to show up with integrity and conversation and why I try to sway them is what you're really looking for is authenticity. You want to see what's real. Sometimes they have to see a struggle. That goes back to number one.

You feel like kindness is something that is for the weak. And integrity is something that is only for those who are trying to do the right thing. Anybody can have integrity. It takes a lot of honesty to do that. Honesty with yourself. Honesty with other people. Those are very tied together. You cannot do that.

Number three, your presence and conversation will always trump your technique. I can give you lots of phrases. I can give you lots of techniques. If you listen and are a subscriber to this podcast, you know I give a lot of techniques that improve your conversation for how to handle relationships with your parents, relationships with your kids, at work, with yourself, wherever you are to help that communication. But listen to me, technique is a band-aid for what is deeper. I often get it when I coach high functioning professionals, that they are looking for the technique

that's going to get them past the finish line. They're wanting that sense of perfection to reach that goal. But what I always remind them is techniques, they are just a means to an end. They don't solve the back end of it. They don't solve your true presence. What's the presence? that is what's in your head, the discernment that you have, the wisdom that you have in that moment of knowing yourself, of knowing, have you had issues your whole life? Do you get nervous in certain situations? Do you feel like you're not enough? Do you feel like you always have to be perfect? Do you feel like you can't make mistakes? These things that are always related to your conversation. So what is the point of today's podcast? The point of today's podcast is for you

to understand that if you are not being real in your conversation, then you're really not having a conversation. You're having a show. If you're not being real in conversation, it's not conversation. It's a show. It's a performance. You're giving them a version of yourself that is not true to you. That's not walking with integrity. It's not acting with integrity. And that's not being authentic. Think of the times where both you or the other person and said, I just want you to be real. You don't have to have the perfect thing to say. So on top of you understanding that that's not a true conversation, what I also want to give you is this understanding of give yourself a little bit of compassion to find out what's really wrong. Why do you struggle with

authenticity and keep pulling back the layers. What is about it that makes you not want to be vulnerable in conversation? I've done that. I continually do that. What is it about the conversation that makes you want to get defensive and clam up? Every time there's something else deeper, have people that would say, they just know how to hit my button. You know, they just hit my button. My question in them is always, well, why is there a button? What's going on? Why are you allowing them to do that? What kind of access are you giving them? Why is there a button there in the first place? And usually that's always inner work that's going on between them. So here is the final takeaway. My guess is you're listening right now because you have a conversation that is

incredibly important to your life coming up. And I am going to be your number one cheerleader, your coach, to say you can do this. And when you get to the point, whether you want to be nice and say what is sounds good and what sounds perfect. And you say, I need to look at everything that Jefferson has and make sure I have the perfect phrasing. What I'm telling you is forget all of that. And you have to go with what is true to you.

You have to speak with authenticity, even when it hurts them. You have to speak with truth, even when it's messy, especially when it's messy. Because if you don't, what you're living is not a true life. And in fact, that conversation is not a true conversation. So I'm encouraging you today, when you get the chance, speak with authenticity. What does that mean?

It is asking the question, am I being real? Am I truly being real with my feelings and my emotions? Or am I covering them up? Am I dismissing them? Am I mitigating them in some way? Am I trying to manage this? Or am I being open with how I truly feel that's going to allow us to have a real conversation?

If you need help with that, use that phrase what I'm struggling with. I'm struggling with the feeling. I'm struggling with the emotion. When you share your struggles, that is the number one way of creating authenticity in that conversation. All right?

I know you can do it. I'll be have a great rest of your day. You can always try that and follow me.