The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

How do you raise a good communicator? How do you teach kids to be kind but not a pushover? And what actually matters when it comes to parenting? In this episode, I’m sitting down with the two people who shaped my life the most—my parents. This is a personal one. But whether you're a parent, thinking about becoming one, or just curious about how childhood shapes the way we communicate, I think you’ll take something valuable away from this conversation. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 40% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, today!  Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you enjoy learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would leave a review. My new book, The Next Conversation is out to order. You can find the links there in the show notes as well as my School of Communication and membership.

Today, I am, I cannot be any more excited to be speaking and bringing to you some people that mean the absolute world to me where it all started and that would be my parents. Hey mom. Hello. Hey mama, hey dad, how are you all? Doing great. Awesome. Are you all comfortable? You're all good? Yeah, we're good.

So for anybody listening, this is the very first time I�ve ever had a guest, and so I want to make sure that my first guest that I ever had was going to be y�all, and make sure that this was important to me and that y�all knew how much I loved y�all and how thankful I am for everything you�ve done for me. This is the very first time I�ve had guests, so we�re just just gonna make it work. Anybody listening, they know how my style is and they know that this is just a casual conversation. There's none of this that is pre-done or set up. Y'all really don't have any idea what I was gonna ask you. And Mom, you look beautiful. I know you were worried about what y'all are gonna wear.

Y'all did great. I wore whatever she tells me to wear. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. So I wanna make sure we're all good and comfortable. And so I have some questions. There's some that I pulled from people that follow my content that I put out on social media.

And I also had some of my own. So I want to, here's my plan for this is for anybody listening, we're gonna talk a few things about Jefferson because I know there's some curiosity of how did this guy get so weird about communication. And on this other end of making sure that we're giving very practical solutions

and techniques of how y'all raised me and my siblings. I'm the oldest of four, for anybody that doesn't know, how y'all kind of laid the strategy for how you wanted to be parents. So I'm going to ask at the outset, is what was the main themes and thoughts and hopes and prayers before you had children, before you had me to anybody out there that is hoping to have children, to have very new kids, what were some of the things that was very important to y'all? Sherlyn, you go with that one. Yeah, does my mama Sherlyn? Sherlyn.

Yeah, Sherlyn. I've always called her mama, so she... Yeah, he always with that one. Yeah, does my mama Sherlyn? Sherlyn. Yeah, Sherlyn. I've always called her mama, so she, yeah. Yeah, he always calls me mama. Yeah. Well, of course you always want your children to love the Lord and to be respectful and kind. But I do remember praying for you that God would give you charisma.

And I feel like He answered that in spades for you. Yeah. And what do you think it is about with charisma? How do you define that? Charisma to me is where somebody just, you're very likeable and they like you and they don't even realize why they like you. But they just know they like you. That God would just give you favor wherever you went. And you always had lots of friends and your teachers loved you. So I feel like he answered that.

Yeah, I feel like it's a – the people that are charismatic are tend to be very warm. Yes. It's just something about them that you like to listen. You're always very caring. You like to listen to them. Well, I feel like, I mean, you had, until Sarah, my sister, was born, it was just me and you. Yes.

Really for four years. Absolutely. So how, I mean, that's a very pivotal time now that I can- Yes, I spent a lot of time with you one-on-one. And how was that? You wore me out. You talked 24-7 from the time your eyes opened to the time they closed. You talked to me all day long.

He was born talking. Yes. Yes. In fact, I remember when I put you in Mother's Day Out, I had to fill out on their form, when did your child first start talking? And I put as long as I can remember. And because I was serious, I was like, when did he? It's meant as long as I can remember. Yes. I'm sure by eight months, you were saying one words, you know. And then by a year I had a whole list of 20 plus words you were saying, and by 15 months you were saying sentences.

Yeah, and I remember a mirror. Oh yes. And the way the living room was set up, there was a mirror behind the couch. He drove me crazy, yes. And why? Well, behind the couch. He drove me crazy, yes. And why? Well, behind our couch was an entire mirror on the wall, just to make your living room look larger.

But it was your complete mirror. You would get on the back of the couch on your knees, make faces, talk to yourself. And I never do that. I never talk to myself. I'm so glad I grew out of that. Well, I mean, you would make faces. And so if I were fussing at you on the couch, instead of looking at me, you're looking at

yourself in the mirror to see how pitiful you look while you're crying or answering me. It was hilarious. And finally, I would say, David, you've got to take this mirror down. I'd come home from work. I'd come home from work and she says, David, you've got to get this mirror off this wall. It's driving me crazy. When he's crying, he looks in the mirror to see how much he can look pitiful. You've got to get this – you've got to get rid of it.

You were very drama. Very drama. Yeah, you were. Well, it was – I mean, for four years it was just me, so I was a- Yeah, no, it was cute. It was cute, but after a while I got irritated because when you were looking at me,

you were looking at yourself in the mirror behind me. Right, I'm with you. Dad, I wanna make sure and ask, this is my dad, David. What did, for you, I'm gonna kinda pose that same question, what were some of your goals before having kids and me come into the world as a just for any, not just because it was me, but because any child, you're now a father. What were some of the main themes? I can't think of any goals that I had before, but I do remember specifically praying over

you as a child, as an infant, before you go to bed. It would always tell stories, and usually I'd put you in the story where you were the hero. You know, Prince Jefferson was kind of, �Come save Queen Sherilyn from the dragon.� You know, so you loved � oh, you just giggle and laugh. You love those kind of stories. But the thing that I really remember and I believe has been a moving force in your life is I pray, I said, Dear God, give Jefferson

wisdom and always be his friend. And that's how we ended prayers. And he's done that. And I believe that. And I think it's so important for parents to bless their children, say good things over them. Speak good things over them. I've seen other parents where they say, oh, you're a little monster, or you're a little meanie. No, no, just speak kindness over them. Speak encouraging words, things that build them up of what you want them to be. And I believe it happens. I really saw that in your life. Yeah. And when I was... As long as I can remember, you've prayed that prayer. I mean, as long as I can remember. I truly credit it, y'all's prayers, for how I've turned out. I've had a little bit to do with it, but for the most part, I mean,

a lot of the way y'all put me in positioned me. And so this is really for the parents that are listening or people that want to have kids, or maybe you have nieces and nephews. It matters when you have goals and themes and a focus of where your heart is and how it develops their character. Yeah, I can remember my mother doing the same thing to me. Oh, David, you're so smart to know how to do that. And it really builds a child up when you do that. And we did the same thing with you. Oh, you're so smart and you were so thoughtful. You speak kindness smart, and you were so thoughtful. You speak kindness, and you speak edifying words of your children. And I believe they become that. If you tell the kid he's a horrible person, or you're such a bad kid, or you're always doing something wrong, well that's what they

a lot of times become. Yeah, they kind of absorb what they see if you're not living up to what they have. Yeah. Now, I am also curious, and I asked this to mom, mama, how did you see the dynamic between once – so I'm the oldest of four, Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob. Once Sarah was born, Jonathan, Jacob, you know, how did you see me being from a one child by myself to now kind of taking on this role as brother? How did you feel like you saw that develop in me and little things maybe you saw in communication?

And the reason why I'm asking is so that anybody listening can spot some things of how they saw the oldest child versus the youngest child and how you saw some of those dynamics changing in our house. Well when I was pregnant with Sarah I just didn't want you to feel left out. I remember telling you when I was pregnant, this is gonna be your baby sister. She's gonna be your baby sister. You were so excited when she was born

and very protective of her and very proud. I don't feel like you were ever jealous of her. And I feel like with each one, you just kind of just enlarge your big brother role. You were always very kind, very protective of them. Even with Sarah, she was kind of a late talker because you talked for her. She would point and you'd go, mama, she wants this. Yeah. And then when Jonathan tried to do the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah. wants this. Yeah, and then when Jonathan... Yeah, Jonathan, my younger brother Jonathan, couldn't say his vowels very well. And so... Consonance. Thank you. Consonance. We called him the Vowel Man. The first consonant of every word he dropped off. Yeah, that's exactly right. We called him our Vowel Man. Yeah, and that's what he did. So I just kind of became... I loved, I still love being Big Brother. There's a theme that I pick up on, and I'm sure anybody who's listening senses this from you, mama, and is just the kindness. I don't know a single person or human

that does not like mama. And so you've always radiated kindness. And yeah, of course. And I got to see a lot of that Growing up because I can remember coming in saying that somebody had done something that made me upset and I bring it to you to complain and you'd say well, were you kind? And I'd say but but mom you don't understand they got they got it, and you wouldn't have any of it.

You just say, well, I think you should be kind. I mean, that was the whole outlook from that. So how do you see kindness and what does it mean to you? How do you like to put it out into the world? What's your secret? Oh goodness, I don't know if there is a secret, but kindness matters. You always had such a sweetheart.

You had a very sweetheart. I think you were naturally kind, but I wouldn't let y'all be rude and ugly to each other. When y'all were fighting, I wouldn't let you name call or any of that. I would say no, y'all are going to be sweet to each other. That is zero tolerance for unkindness among the siblings. Yeah. Well, I mean, you had a, I can remember there was, it was very early on for people listening in the South, it's yes ma'am, no ma'am.

That is a sign of respect and manners. And if you said it, you expected that to be it. Yes, I didn't really like a lot of arguing. I just say, all I need here is yes ma'am. Yeah, that's- All I want here is yes ma'am. That's very true. I think I just got, I think I just had PTSD for a second.

No, I'm not second hearing all that. Well, there's no sense in arguing about it. You're talking about kindness, and the role that you stepped into is you took ownership. You felt that they really were your brothers and your sisters. They'd call you, and you would create a persona, Chef Baba. You loved – you asked really, can we quit having babysitters? Can I babysit?

You took that ownership and it was probably a lot of pressure. A lot of kids aren't asked to do things like that. You seem to enjoy it and thrive with it. And it really made you mature way early. You were kind of an old soul even though you were a kid. And you were in a way almost like a second father because there was a little distance in time. But you did it because you enjoyed them, and you poured yourself into them. Y'all were talking a second ago about how your mother was kind, and so you were very defensive about that. And I remember the story where that boy came up to you in day school and said, you're mean. And you came up and you pushed him down.

You were only four. You pushed him down and said, my mama is not mean. And I'm like, Jefferson, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so you just, you were defensive for your parents too. Yeah, yeah, very, very defensive. I mean, it's one thing for you to say something about your mama, but somebody else says something about your mama, that's, those are fighting,

those are fighting words every single time. I wanna turn gears a little bit to specifically conflict and arguments. I remember in y'alls, in growing up in our house, y'all really did not argue in front of us. I mean, there were just normal spats, but when it came to serious arguing, y'all did it in y'all's room, because I can remember like keeping the kids away. I was like, no, mom and dad are talking. Y'all go down the hall.

Let's go entertain them for whatever. And then or if it was late at night, you know, after the kids go to bed. And I was older so it wasn't like – and it wasn't that big of a house. I mean, if y'all were talking seriously, you could hear voices. I didn't know what y'all were saying. Outside of when we were in the car, I mean, of course, if you're late, late for church, everybody is just – yeah, yeah. Darrell Bock Taking off on vacation.

Scott Cunningham Yeah, yeah, on vacation for sure. Then you have to hear argument. But I'm curious on y'all's take about, for people who are just rethinking how they saw arguments happen in their life, I'm curious how you saw it with your parents and how that shaped how y'all did it with us, specifically conflict. I know with my parents, they didn't argue in front of us very often. They did the same thing back in the bedroom rule. And I think that's a really good policy. And the truth is because if you get into a heated argument in front

of the kids, they almost always blame themselves. What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? And what, you know, oh, I should have done something. And they internalize it. And so we really – we were friends for long before we got married and we just – like we both agreed we're not going to have that kind of argument in front of the children. Right. Now it's important for them to know that you disagree sometimes. Yeah, you don't want them to think that a marriage never has arguments. Because they need to see then after the argument, they need to see mom and daddy holding hands, mom and daddy hugging, mom and daddy kissing to know that you can argue and still love each other.

That's right. And that's just crucial. There are some people who keep the conflict so far away from the kids, the kids don't have any way to process it. And then there are some kids who they are in the middle of just horrible conflict, and that's neither of those extremes are really healthy for kids. Yeah, I totally agree, because there's the flip side of you don't want to have zero conflict, where you only have conflict in the bedroom.

When they think they have conflict, something's wrong. Exactly. And so one thing you all are so good at that I know I've applied to my marriage is you all are very quick to forgive. You all are very quick to say, I'm sorry. And I think that plays a big role in how long the argument lasts because if you just, for people who withhold that apology, they use it almost as a punishment in a way when they're withholding that. But I absolutely agree that on the flip side, having knockdown, drag out arguments is not

healthy. At the same time, you want to see – you want the kids to see you come to resolution. Right, right. You want the kids to see you come to resolution. But I've had that too where it is my son thinks that he did something wrong when we're arguing or he'll say or he'll mistake just banter and playful banter as argument, as conflict, and we kind of have to say, no, no, no, we're not arguing. And I think some kids are very perceptive of that and more sensitive to that. Like my daughter can really care less. But Son is especially in tune with what we're talking about.

I mean, and you remember, I won't, I'm not going to say his name, but I grew up with a friend who lived not too far down the street, and his parents argued in front of us, like really did. And I remember looking like, is everything okay? And he just acted like nothing happened. I mean, just kept eating his cereal. I mean, never looked up. And I think so many people are now realizing in their own life how they handle conflict,

having that struggle to apologize, having those hard times. They're now seeing that reflected as of how they grew up. So I'm curious, Ma, how did you grow up with conflict? No, my parents argued in front of us, and I didn't feel like that was a good thing. So you saw the negatives. It would escalate and I saw the yelling knockdown dragouts and it was not good. So I determined in my heart that I was never going to do that to my children. Yeah.

And so I wasn't a yeller. I really wasn't. That's true. I can attest to that. I really wasn't a yeller. Very rarely. Very rarely. But my level, because I maintained a really calm voice

most of the time, like if I raised my voice because I was aggravated, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 I raised it to a 4 Y'all would say mama. You don't need to yell and I would be very offended because in my mind that was only a 4 Yeah, because I was like no no no you don't you don't understand. I used to hear 15 at my house, right? Yeah Little bit different. Yeah, I would be highly offended because I was like this is not yelling. This is just raising my voice Yeah, because I'm aggravated. Mm- different. Yeah, I would be highly offended because I was like, this is not yelling. This is just raising my voice because I'm aggravated. Yeah. You said one other thing a little bit earlier.

I think it's really important is the willingness and the – not only the willingness but to do it to say, I'm sorry. I was wrong in front of your kids. Now whether it's – I'll say that to my wife, I was wrong. I'm sorry. But to say it to your kids. Now, whether it's – I'll say that to my wife, I was wrong. I'm sorry. But to say it to your kids. Because sometimes we can misjudge what they did or why they did it, or maybe one – they're picking on each other and one started it and you jump to a conclusion too quickly. And it's important to be able to say, I'm sorry, I was wrong.

I was wrong. Will you forgive me? I think it's really important for dads especially, because I know people who say, my dad never said he was sorry. And I just can't imagine that. I mean, we mess up regularly and you need to tell people, I'm sorry, I was wrong. I think that's a crucial point. It's not just to apologize to your kid as you apologize to your spouse, but also that they hear, I am sorry. Because you're not perfect either. Exactly. And that's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. In my mind, that's a strength to say, I'm secure enough about myself to admit that I was wrong. What can we do to fix it?

Yeah. Confidence is not all about only saying it when you're right. It's admitting when you're wrong. That's where the confidence comes from. Insecure people can't say, I'm sorry and I was wrong. Yeah, that's very true. When you see now kind of where this whole thing is taken in my life, just the whole social media thing, I'm curious, this is aside from communication advice for a second, because I get this question of what do your parents think? Usually what Sierra thinks was the family thing. What do you all think about all of this? Stuff when I first told y'all I have having some people follow me on social Social media and then you continue to see it grow. So mom, I'm curious about how you've seen it from your end. I

Think it's crazy how it's – your followers have just increased exponentially. But you being a good communicator does not surprise me. I guess just the social media aspect, I think your generation is more in tune with that and the Instagram and all the other social formats. But no, as far as you communicating well, that did not surprise me. You have communicated well ever since you were two and three and four. You've been an excellent communicator. In fact, I remember – and I guess because I talked to you all day long, and like you said,

it was the two of us at home, I remember at church one day a friend of mine coming in saying, �Hey, Sherlyn, I just asked Jefferson if he�d seen his mama, and he said, �Uh-huh, she�s in the auditorium.� She goes, �What three-year-old says auditorium?� I said, �I don�t know. I guess that�s the way we talked to him at home. But you were an excellent communicator. Yeah, he always would say- He'd just talk, talk, talk.

Yeah, that I talked a lot. That was the thing. And I was quick-witted. I think that was the- Very. That was the- Very. Pool from there. And I don't know who I got that from. Probably a combination of

You both because I grew up seeing dad very Diplomatic that is the peacemaker everywhere he goes. He's definitely the the peacemaker Where we have other cousins and other family. They're not that way. They're much more bull in a china closet. I mean they They'll rip you one side and down the other. The dad's always been the diplomatic. And then you, I feel like, have always had a sense of just warmth, your very loving personality. Like, you're not rough at all,

so you're very easy to talk to. And I think the combination of that led to a lot of my philosophies and how I began to communicate early on. Dad, what do you think about this social media stuff? I think it's amazing. I think it's just wonderful. It's just a different generation of communicating. So I think God just put you in that niche just the right time, and it took off much farther than you ever anticipated. Right. Yeah, or could see.

And I know that created a lot of anxiety. I've seen a lot of that calm down. I think it's been a wonderful platform for you. I can't tell you how many friends that I've had from high school, college, and law school said, hey man, was that Jefferson's? That's your son? That's got to be your son.� I saw that video, and it sounded like the kind of thing I know you would have said.

And it's been really neat. What's really neat is to see friends of mine on Facebook who will tag you and share one of your posts to one of their kids. And when it first started to happen, I kind of sent them a private message. I said, you know, that's my son. I wondered who it was or not. That's funny. It's been neat to have friends who have come across it. You know, people of our generation or older generation, that's kind of the Facebook crowd. The Facebook crowd's the 50s through 80s in age, but it's been a neat experience. It's been a neat experience. And what's rewarding to me is that we've done some things right.

Yeah. Hopefully. And to see the post and the comments from people, because it's given you an opportunity really to minister to a lot of people. Yeah. I've had friends tell me, oh, I used Jefferson's thing the other day, and they listened to one of your posts, and they said, oh, telling that it really helped me, it worked. Yeah, well, that's good.

I said, good, I'm glad it's helping. That's good. There's so much of it of people asking, how'd you get this way? Where you get all this stuff? And I always tell them, what I share is not something you read anywhere else. It's just part of my experience. Exactly. And y'all have seen and

oh, I just wanted to make sure that we shared some things about communication advice, some things about me personally that people have just been curious about. And I'm just, I find that when I say it has to do a lot with my experience, a major part of that is y'all, just my parents. If I'd been born to two different people, it would have been a totally different person. You know, when you were speaking earlier, it brought to my mind that one other thing I did pray for, I prayed, Lord, just help this child have the best of both of us.

I did. I prayed for you to have the best of both of us. And so I feel like He gave you that. I agree. I agree. And it's been such a cool experience. Like, I never thought we'd be doing a podcast and getting to interview my parents. That's cool.

And the whole thing has just been wild. Anybody who's followed me and listening knows how left field this has come for me. But that's kind of part of the authenticity of there's never been a motive. There's never been a I want to do this with this. So it's just been fun to enjoy it. It's come a long way from the little I'm a lawyer ad. Yeah. Little discussion was that but almost three years ago. Yeah right about. And boy it's completely changed to

something really really productive. Yeah it really it really is been fun to be part of. I mean I can't believe it's happening. Well, I'm very proud of you. And I just want to say that when people see your 30 second little posts that you do, that's really who you are. That is not an act, that is genuinely who you are. And we're so proud of you. Thank you very much, I appreciate that. I want to take a second right now

and tell you about a sponsor of this podcast and they're called Cozy Earth The reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because their sheets are on my bed right now I've used them for months if not years and they're the best my wife loves their pajamas I love their hoodies and their sweatshirts So if you want to be home and you're like me you just want to be cozy and comfortable You can go to Cozy Earth comm slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off as cozy earth comm Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off

so one major question that I see a lot of people asking is How did you teach I say, but really all of us, all of my siblings, the balance between being assertive, meaning not being a wallflower, getting stepped over, how do you also balance kindness? You wanna not be rude to somebody, but at the same time you wanna be very direct. I'm curious if y' all had any mindset or tools

for how you thought or how you gave me advice about that. Like for example, dad, you would tell me, if I came to complain about something, you'd say, don't make that your Alamo. That's what you'd say. You'd say, don't make that your Alamo. In other words, don't be that, let that be the hill to die on.

And there was this kind of sense of, so, you know? I mean, the kind of the, when Jonathan was upset that mom was all in his business and mom just, and you say so? I mean, there are just things about that. I'm just curious what the balance was like for y'all, what y'all saw. You wanna go first? You go ahead. I don't remember you having a problem with assertiveness. You were always very assertive. You were never timid, and you did it with a cheerful disposition.

So you had a very cheerful, assertive disposition as a child, and you were rarely disrespectful. And because we had a zero tolerance for that, you quickly stopped. And so I don't remember us having to encourage you to be assertive. What I can remember doing is sitting down and explaining maybe how do you deal with disappointments or something that didn't go well. Just don't worry about it. And be thankful. That was one thing y'all hated, say, well, give me ten things that you're thankful for. And that's that's a good way to deal with a child. And you know when you start, well I'm thankful for daddy and mama. Yeah, yeah. You know, Sarah and Jonathan. No, no, not family members. What are some things you're thankful for? The

downside was is when I'd get upset, y'all would turn it on me. I said, Daddy, there's ten things you're thankful for. Yeah. Turnabout was fair play. but y'all really were sweet children. And I give that to your mama, because she demanded respect, not only for herself and for the parents, but for y'all to respect each other and to defend each other and to be kind to one another. I don't remember y'all ever coming to blows You know that was never in the question And you know every now and then y'all would nyan-yan and but she really did a good good job of saying That's enough. Yeah, how did you see that mom? Maybe not with just assertiveness, but

on top of how you, when we say zero tolerance policy, what was your mindset of how you would handle me or any of us when we said something that was disrespectful, which I'm sure was very few times, mama. I can just, I just remember saying, you're not going to talk to me like that. That's not acceptable to me. You say, yes, meow, no, meow. Sometimes it's not only what you say, but the tone. Yeah.

And I'd say, you better watch your tone. Yes, that's true. Would you like to say that again a little bit more respectfully? Yeah. My mom would always say, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I can remember you being just in your little infant stroller. You were a very strong-willed child. Right. Not in a mean way, but you were very strong-willed. And you'd go over and start, you know, knocking off the magazines. And you know, even from a very young child would, you know, just not hurting you but

spat your hand or say, no, don't do that. And then you'd go back and you'd do it again. And we'd have to discipline you then again and discipline you again and maybe do it four or five times at a row and finally that fourth or fifth time you go up to it and look at it and look at us to see whether we're watching. And we just look at you and you pull the hand back and you scoot off and do something different. Yeah. In his walker. In your walker. I mean that's when you were those little bitty walkers. And so I think that we were consistent. Yes, that's part of it right there. And that's what's so hard for parents is they'll do it a couple times or say, well, I'm going to count to three.

No, no, we don't do that. If I tell you to stop, stop. And if you don't, then there's a little bit of not being abusive in any way, but there's a repercussion. But you were a people pleaser in the sense that you wanted your parents to be happy to you. In fact, that's what you would say when you were a child. If we would discipline you, you'd say, please be happy to me. Be happy to me. And you don't want to be held. And so you wanted to please us. And so it hurt your heart to know any displeasure. Right. And so it's,

but it's important for children to know the boundaries. It's important to be consistent. It's so hard for a parent to stay consistent. Yeah. I do it a couple of times. It's just warrant you out. You got it. They're looking, kids are looking for boundaries and they're always going to push them. Yeah. And you want them to do that. It means there's something, they've got a strong personality. Which is good.

Which is good. You just gotta mold it. Right. In a way that's helpful without breaking their spirit. And you can do it. You're not gonna break their spirit by spatting their hand. You just know. No, no, and it was barely. Just like no, no. Oh yeah, no, it was not like a, You're not going to break their spirit by spitting their hand. You just know.

No. And it was barely. Just like, no, no. Oh, yeah, no. It was not like a spanking heart on my hand. It's amazing how smart children are. Yeah. Well, you would always, as I got to see, like we talked about being kind of a second dad with Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob and seeing that,

I found myself a lot of times in the role as the mediator very early on with that, where a lot of the problems didn't, I kind of took it as like a thing of I didn't want the problems to hit y'all's plate. And not, but not in a bad way, it became like a thing that I enjoyed. I also know, I mean, just being reflective and open with my personality, and I can see that in my son. Like I'm very, I was very perceptive of emotions, like how you were feeling. And so even now, like if I watch a movie and there's an awkward moment, I can't take it. If there's a conflict, even in the movie, because I can feel it. And Jed has the same exact thing.

And so I'm curious how you saw that transition with how I handled my emotions and maybe there could be some nuggets in there of how we can teach some other people to recognize that in their kids and what emotional intelligence means to you. Well, I feel like you were always confident. You were confident and you were very kind and caring. And so if the siblings were fighting, you did want to mediate. You did want them to, hey, hey, hey, what are y'all doing? Even without me telling you to do that, it's like I didn't expect you to be the mama. And I remember one time saying, Jefferson, I'm the mama. Darrell Bock Yeah, that did happen. Yeah.

Julie Baxter You know, because I was like, no, no, no, I'm here. I'm the mama. So a lot of it. You know, because I was like, no, no, no, I'm here. I'm the mama. So a lot of it you took on yourself. Yes. To do that. But they adored you. Yeah. They all just, they still do. Yeah. We have a very close relationship with my siblings still. But yeah, that was definitely, I mean, you were always there. I was there. You're always there. And sometimes you helped more than I wanted you to. That's no doubt, I'm sure.

But yeah, I find that people who are really good at reading others' emotions, I mean, and we could even talk about this in like the legal space too, as we're both attorneys, as some of the most excellent communicators are those that can have high emotional intelligence and can read emotions and others faces. Just have that intuition. And they can know how to say things a certain way to produce a certain outcome based on what they know about those people's emotions.

And so I've seen that even with our son, and when he wants to, let's say, play a video game, which we do not allow until maybe a Saturday afternoon for like an hour. And the way he asks the – it's so funny, like every time he asked the question changes every week, because he's like trying a different way to get in there. Now he's using his sister of using her as what she would want. And like seeing if I would give more preference to her versus him. He's testing. Exactly.

I remember taking with the Dairy Queen and he wanted to throw away a paper napkin. That's my son. Yeah. And he wanted to throw it away. I said, no, not now. We're still eating ice cream. He goes, well, it would make me very happy if I could go throw the one piece of paper. First, he said, first my mama lets me, or my daddy lets me throw it away. I said, well, your mom and daddy aren't here. You're not going to do that." He says, well, next he then went to, you know, maybe very happy, very happy, Paw Paw, to do that. I said, well, I'm sorry, but we're not going to do that. He stopped and ate some more ice cream. And then he said, it makes me very sad. He said he was trying to find… He'll come out at a different angle.

He's trying to find that hole in the fence. You did that too, though. You did that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. fence. You did that too though. You did that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you did that too. Just trying to find a way to – I think that really developed a lot of my – how I come

up with little phrases or metaphors or twists for things of how to say – like I like wordsmithing. And so I think that helped develop that at a very early age. You had a knack for memorizing scripts like in Disney movies and dialogues. Very, very gifted with that. And then knew how to use it. Yeah. And was neat. Yeah, that's kind of developed what we're doing now. I want to make sure and leave people with if there is any thoughts that you have as

a parent, not of a parent of Jefferson, just a parent of any child and what you find to be one of the biggest things that they can do to help give them confidence in how they communicate, maybe open them up. And we already talked about how it's great to apologize to them and let them see that. I think it's great that you encouraged me to not see problems as big as they needed to be. You'd say, is that going to be your alamo? Is that really going to be that important? And when you asked me that question, it was like, you know what, it's really not that

important. But that became, I mean, I still remember it. So it became so ingrained in me of seeing what was important. So what are some lasting thoughts that you might have for parents that are wanting to make sure that they put their kids on the right path? Don't allow your children to name-call each other. I think that's detrimental to them in a way. I think it hurts them.

If they just verbally let them abuse each other, don't let your children do that to each other. Yeah. Even if they're a brother and sister, don't let them. Even if they're brother and sister, say, no, we're not going to be name calling. No, we're not doing that. Yeah. I think it teaches them at an early age to use that as a weapon.

Yes. And without understanding the- It can be very hurtful. Sure. And if they remember it, you know, from years down the road, you just, no, to me, just don't let them do that to each other. And to see value in other people. Yes. Even if they do something wrong, see value in them. There's something good about that person.

And if you have, if they're having trouble with other kids at school, instead of, even if it's a bully or somebody, tell me something good about them. And you try to speak to and encourage that positive aspect of that other person instead of just focusing on their negative qualities. But as far as building and influencing a child, I think the most important thing is just to hold them, just to touch them by the face and say, �I want you to know I love you, and there's not a thing you could do in this world that would keep me from loving you.� And that's important. The world is ugly and nasty and mean.

And I think we saw our role as parents is to give you the biggest shield, the biggest suit of armor that you could possibly have so that you could walk out there knowing, I'm loved, I'm protected, and I'll always have a place, and I always have people I can go to who will love me and build me up, no matter who's shooting at me, no matter what people are saying, I am loved. And when a child has that foundation, it just builds them up, because they're going to get attacked out in the world, even as a child or as they grow into maturity And if they don't have that foundation of knowing that they are loved by a parent like that

It's so much more difficult for them. Yeah, and so if all times those are the ones who go looking for things just trying to find love Yeah, and that's where you see so much dysfunction. I can second that because I can remember both of you, especially you, Dad. You would always, probably every day, I'm proud of you. I mean, you would make it a mission critical to say you were proud of me. Now, I know being a kid, you know, I'm looking all over the room, I'm being goofy. I mean, I try to talk to my kids, and to get their attention, to look me in the eye

and just say something that you feel is significant, very difficult, because they're just, they're everywhere, and I might say something sweet, and they go, you know, why does a pelican have a big beak? You know, it's just, did you even say it? And so, but I'm here to tell you that I did hear it, and I remember it, and that... And I'll still do that. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I'll still send text messages to all of my children.

Yeah. On occasion. Not every day, but you know, every now and then. I love you, or I'm proud of you, son. I'm proud of you, to the daughter, sweetie. And I think that's so important. But my father did that to me. That's one thing that my father did. He regularly said, I love you. I'm proud of you.

And that is so validating for children. Yeah. And I think even for parents who did not have that role modeled growing up, I think there's a message here too of that they can change that. Oh yeah. I mean, that's just because they had a rough upbringing does not mean that's the same upbringing that their kid is going to have. And even if they didn't have that model for them and they didn't feel that, they can set it right. I think it really just changes on the next generation.

And I'm sure we made mistakes. I know we made mistakes, and so you do your best to try to do better than we did. You always want your children to do better than you did. And to learn and to grow. For sure. And I think, I mean, now there's so many podcasts on parenting and accounts, wonderful accounts and experts on parenting and things you should say, not say, what you do. I mean, and y'all just didn't have that.

I mean, you just didn't have. I didn't have cell phones. That's what I mean. I mean, you just didn't have nearly the, I mean, you can go to AI now and have like a whole plan, but I mean, you just didn't have that. So every generation is kind of trying to see what's going to be the best. I just wanted to let you know that you were loved. I was very affectionate with you all. I hugged on you all all the time. But to me, if the child feels loved, then to me it's

a safe space for them to be able to communicate anything to you. They should feel safe to speak their mind. As long as it's respectful, then they should be able to say anything to you. Yes. No, that was one thing that I always felt very vulnerable. I could be very vulnerable with you. I could say just about anything. I talk about being a safe space in communication for your kids And that that is saying thank you for coming to me with this Yeah, instead of just getting so upset to where they don't want to come back and say things I I can't imagine ever in a world where I am NOT my child's go-to for when things go wrong You know, you don't you you want to be that you don't want to be where they're trying to hide it from dad or mom and not do that. So it

makes a big difference. And have fun. Yeah. Enjoy it. And one of my, I'll just keep getting this mental image of your mom and I were in our bedroom. You were very small and all of a sudden we looked over and saw these little fingers underneath the door. So it was you outside. And so I said, who's there? And you go, is Jefferson? I said, Jefferson who? Jefferson Fisher. I said, what do you do, Jefferson Fisher?

There was a pause. Like 10 seconds pause. I play. We were probably like two and a half. It started laughing, and thought, you know, what a special time that was. You just wanted to play. And you wanted your parents to know where you were, and checking on us with your fingers. Yeah. It was a joy.

You were a joyful child and you're joyful. Yes. Thirty-seven-year-old guy. You bring us a lot of joy. You still do. For sure. I could not be any more grateful that I wanted on the record. I could not be any more grateful that y'all are my parents and that y'all have influenced my life

Forever and beyond and I couldn't imagine ever having any other parents. So I want to let you both know I love you very very much and thank you for praying over me. Thank you for praying over me and And just being who you are and a joy to anybody who gets to know you so I love y'all