The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - How to Get Any Conversation UNSTUCK

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

When a conversation gets stuck, most people try to win. That only sinks both people deeper. In this episode, I break down how to recognize when a conversation has lost traction, name what happened without blaming the other person, and get back on track without shutting anyone down. We talk about the phrases that help you move from repeating the same argument to finding clarity, why bringing up the past is not always the problem, and how to refocus on what you are actually trying to solve together. Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/newsletter Thank you to our Sponsors: Pendulum: Go to https://www.pendulumlife.com/jefferson and use code JEFFERSON for up to 20% off your first order.Zocdoc: Go to https://www.zocdoc.com/ to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, today! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/topic Join my School of Communication. https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/membership Follow me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher Follow me on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@justaskjefferson?lang=en Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffersonfisher/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's often that a conversation doesn't turn difficult because either of you said the wrong thing. It turns difficult because the conversation got stuck. How do you get a conversation unstuck without the other person shutting down? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Wherever you're listening, if you would, do me a favor. Find the button that says subscribe or follow a thumbs up, a heart, and click it. It doesn't cost anything. And it would really mean a big difference to me.

This is a podcast where I care and you care about. the way we communicate. All right, conversational quicksand. That's what this episode is about. You're walking along, you and the other person in the conversation, and something happens, quicksane. You walk right into it and you don't even know it. Remember when you thought, I don't know about you, but I definitely thought quicksand was a much bigger deal, to be honest. I thought there was quicksand everywhere. I remember watching, it was in movies at the time. It was terrifying. I was like, you mean you can just walk places and just you just go fall right through it? terrifying. Okay. Conversational quicksand. It's kind of the same thing. It's a rut. It's a breaking down point.

And you go, I don't know how in the world that we got here. And it's really easy that when that quicksand happens, when things start to slow down, when you feel stuck and you're not moving anywhere in the conversation, to turn, get your finger and point it at the other person and say, You did this. This is all you. You're so crazy. You're insane. Do you even hear yourself right now? That is toxic, horrible language. We're going to remove that and we're going to address the real problem. Here's the truth of it. You ready for it? Getting unstuck isn't the same thing as getting your way. Getting unstuck in a conversation is not the same thing as getting your way. You cannot win yourself out of being stuck in a conversation. So what do you do? I want you do picture this at work. Maybe it's with a colleague or a coworker or a boss or an employee and you're needing to discuss something or maybe it's at home with a spouse or somebody you're in a relationship with. And you're having to talk about the smallest of things typically. It's not the big, big issues that cause problems, right? It's the small things. Things that are typically silly and stupid. And somehow you got to this point where all of a sudden,

and you go, are we, are we mad at each other right now? How do you get unstuck in conversations? Number one, the first thing is to realize that you are stuck. That takes way more discipline and awareness than you'd think. It's hard to realize that you're stuck. What happens is typically you feel it first before you see that it's happened. You just fell right into it. You're walking along through the jungle, through the woods, whatever quicksane is these days. And all of a sudden, you look and both of you are up to your ankles and all of a sudden your knees and quicksand,

and you can't go anywhere. You can't go anywhere. When that happens, the faster you realize where you're at, what happened, that's like the first entry point of getting yourself unstuck is to know that you are stuck. know that it's happening. And that doesn't mean it's the other person's fault. Hear me, that doesn't mean it's the other person's fault.

It takes two to tango. It's a two-way street here. So it's like laying yourself out, open up the map. Okay? There has to be a place where you go, all right, I feel like we've seen this place before. Yeah, I recognize this issue, this, I recognize this tree. Oh, that's the same rock. Oh, my gosh.

We spent 30 minutes and we're back to where we started. We didn't go anywhere. And it's easy to get that frustration point. Here is where you stop and go, okay, you have to be the first to say, I feel like we're lost. I want you to metaphorically get out your map. Remember before GPS, before MapQuest,

all right? My dad still pulls out MapQuest. You had what? A physical map. that you had in your glove box, in your car, and you pulled it out. There'd be plenty of times I did this with my grandfather where we would, before on a trip,

he was going to take me out somewhere, we would map the route with a pin. Where are we going to turn? Where are we going to do? He'd have me write it down every turn. I was the GPS. That way, I could navigate us as we went. And what did we pull it out.

And it was huge, right? It took up the whole windshield kind of thing. That's what you have to do to say, hey, hold up. We are... lost in this moment right now. So we, we, it's time to time out. What does that sound like? What does that sound like? How do you voice the fact that you've realized and you need to say, hey, we're, we're stuck? You could just say, I feel like we're stuck. The key is, it's a we,

it's not a, it's not a you. You've, you've brought us down. You've led us to this dead end. None of that needs to be either an I language or we language. It's, it's a together thing. So here are some phrases that I would give you, first realizing that you are stuck is to say, I don't feel like we've gained any traction. I don't feel like we've made any momentum. I don't feel like we've gained any momentum, right? I don't feel as if we're making any progress. I feel like we're back to where we started.

Say, I feel. I feel like we're back in the same spot. I feel like we're on a merry-go-round. I feel like we've made a full circle. I don't feel like we've made any traction. One of my favorites, truly, because it helps me visually is I'll say, I don't know where we are on the map. I can't find us on the map right now. That's my way of saying, if I say, I can't find us on the map.

It's my way of saying, I'm lost. We're lost. If I were to say, I am lost, it sounds like I'm saying you're the one to blame. You're the one that's lost me. Here, you, you've ever heard, ever used that phrase? You go, you've lost me. You've lost me. All of a sudden, it's their response.

It's like, it's your responsibility now to put me on track. No, I am a mature, emotionally intelligent adult. It's not their job to put me on track. It's a together thing because they might be saying it the right way and I'm just not receiving it the right way. So let's take some accountability on both sides here. There is a driver and a. a passenger and there are two people, and both people can't be doing the same thing at the same time. You can't both be talking. Can't both be listening. There has to be some give and take.

All right. So when I say, I can't find us on the map, it's realizing calling out, hey, I think, I think we're lost. If you want to say we, I think we're lost right now. Anytime you're saying, hey, we're not making any movement, I feel like we're back to where we started great way saying hey we cannot tackle this problem at the same level of consciousness that we created that we cannot continue to be on the the roller coaster the merry-you-go-round number two what do you do when you've now realized it and you've voiced that two you need to name what happened what happened and you can't go you can't put the blame on the other person and say you've done this same same reasoning as i said before it's not their responsibility what you're you

you need to say something that's a we thing. I feel like we've gotten off track. I feel like we took a rabbit trail. I feel like we're in some quicksand. I feel like we've hit a dead end. I feel like we're now repeating the same thing. I feel like we're now bringing up the past. Any words you can say that name what created that. What created the The diversion. Listen, it happens in the easiest of conversations. The easiest, it's nobody's fault. Maybe you go, well, you know what? It really turned for the worst when he or she brought up the past. And they started making up all the past and all the past and all the past. Well, they can do that. They can do that. That doesn't make the past any less valid. Maybe they need that for the point that they're making. Maybe you need that for a point that you're making. When somebody brings up the past in the conversation, which you do not do,

is go, ah, that doesn't matter. Slap that away. That's, you're only making it worse. When somebody brings up the past in an argument, it's this idea, if you haven't heard the end of it, you haven't heard the heart of it. And so rather than throwing it away, I want you to acknowledge and affirm and say,

I hear that, I hear that, I'm not disregarding that. For this conversation, I want to address that after we finish this conversation. If you swat it away as of like, oh, this again, don't bring up the past. You are going to compound the problem that you're in. You're going to sink further into the quicksand. You need to acknowledge it, but you don't need to solve it right then. You're saying, hey, I hear that.

I want to put that to the side so that when we finish this conversation, finish this path first, then you and I can take a different, a new trip together to where we talk about these past things, but you don't. Do not want to dismiss it because it will absolutely make it worse for you. Before we keep going, a quick word from pendulum metabolic daily. I don't know about you, but throughout the day, if I find that my system is off, like I'm not eating really well or you just feel like I'm kind of sluggish, it usually has to do with my gut.

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at a great steady baseline. Right now podcast listeners can get an exclusive 20% off their first order at pendulumlife.com slash Jefferson. That's 20% off at pendulumlive.com slash Jefferson on your first on your first. First is realizing that you're stuck. Second is naming what happen to say not that you're the problem it's we got on the wrong path we took the wrong path we've lost the path how do we get ourselves back so that leads uh number three how do you get yourself back when a conversation is stuck what do you say to make sure that you get yourself on the right course it's as easy as asking that the two of you get back on the right track some phrases that i love to use or one, hey, what are we trying to solve for right now?

I want to make sure, what are we trying to solve for? It has a wonderful way, especially for people who have more analytical minds, of turning on the numbers, right, turning on a more technical side of the brain that says, hey, we're trying to solve for X here. And rather than just talking about all the different variables, let's start talking about how do we solve this? What are we trying to solve for here? Two, another phrase that I like to use.

Depends, especially in, let's just say, on the relationship side of things, is I will simply say, what am I missing? What am I missing? It helps me say in voice out loud. Hey, I'm missing a sign here. As I'm driving down the highway with you, I am missing the warning signs, the exits.

I am missing it. And if I am the first to kind of volunteer that I'm, there's something I'm missing, it helps break us down into, like, let's take step-by-step things. Another that I like to use is where do we disagree? Where are we disagreeing? If I say that out loud, let's find out where we disagree. That means I want to talk about the process of the conversation. That means there are other things that we do agree on.

There are some truths that we both know. There are things we both know to be true. Here, let's call out the things that we disagree on and kind of put them to the side. That way you and I can still have traction, still have momentum in the conversation. If I'm able to at least say, hey, help me, where's the goal for our conversation? You know what it's like when you're sitting there across the table from the other person and you both don't even know what to say because you're so lost in the conversation and you feel defeated and you feel upset and you feel like nothing is good

and this was pointless and nothing matters and you're in this whole mindset of the script of just despair, nothing matters, nothing's ever going to change. that's just a corrosive scarcity mentality. It's a story that you're writing for yourself. And when you can ask the other person, hey, I want to make sure we're on the same page. What's the goal for this conversation? Or what am I missing about where this conversation is headed?

Or what are we trying to solve for right now? Or maybe you just need to bring up the word that you were originally supposed to talk about. Okay, hey, I know we were supposed to talk about the proposal, decision or the budget decision or even asking the question of okay what are our what are our takeaways what are our action steps right now i love the phrase seer does a great job of always bringing us to action steps she'll often say okay what are our action steps it's like got it okay we're we're we're we're we're we're we're in the quicksand and the in the the rut because we've just been in this loop that we don't

even know we're operating in because we're tired we're hungry we're you know whatever you name it with all the stress you have going on. There's something about the word, okay, what's our, what's our action steps that cues us in that we need to have some traction. Help, help walk, walk with me through this conversation, which you cannot do. Please hear me on this disclaimer. What you cannot do is be this defeatist and say, okay, well, you tell me, Mr. So-and-so, Mrs. So-and-so, what are we doing in this conversation? I don't even know what I'm doing in this conversation. right now. So you tell me, okay? You're the smart one. You tell me. You stop that. Stop that. It's not a one-person thing. It's not a one-person thing. Hear me when I say, you cannot,

you cannot win yourself out of being unstuck. You cannot continue in the conversation until you win to get yourself unstuck. That's not, not the way it happens. Otherwise, if you've forced yourself to a position to win, meaning you've said the hard, harsh thing, you've pushed it too far, you've decided to explode for it all to hit the fan and you think that's the way you're going to get stuck, no, you're going to fall right into the same quicksand the next chance that you get. This episode is sponsored by Zoc Doc. I know, because you're human and I'm human, that there is a doctor's appointment that you should be scheduling right now,

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They can't go anywhere. Two, name what happened without blame. Hey, I think we got lost. Hey, I can't find us on the map right now. Hey, I think we took a detour. Hey, I think we went way off track. I think we took a rabbit trail. Hey, be able to voice that.

And three, realign the heading. Okay, but be able to redirect yourself of where you need to go by reminding yourself both of you of the goal. Why you started talking in the first place. And if you're really not sure, then ask questions that say, hey, what are we solving for right now? What are our action steps? What's the takeaway? Let's find out first, where are the issues that we disagree? And then we can put that aside and continue to make traction. Then we can address because sometimes the goal is not some destination. It's simply understanding. The goal is clarity. The goal is, I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm not asking you to fix anything. I need, we need, to have clarity of position.

There is a legal concept in contracts, in transactional work, and people in real estate and other business dealing, certainly know what this is. It's called a letter of intent, meaning before you and I start hashing out the deal of what needs to happen and who needs to do what, there's first a document that says, hey, I am writing to you of my intent. And my intent is that we do X, Y, and Z, X, Y, and Z. then somebody else something at the other side will say here's my letter of intent x y and z x y and z and usually that's compiled into one document we go we have now an agreed letter of intent meaning there's no agreement we're only agreeing to agree in the future meaning hey this is we're at least agreeing on our intent for the future issue that we have the future project future or whatever it is on

this future contract, we're not agreeing to anything. We're only showing our intent to agree in the future. Then the hope is that what the actual contract looks like mirrors what the letter of intent is, often that it does. And typically if it doesn't, then attorneys get involved most of the time. So it's that. You need to have a letter of intent type mentality in conversations when you feel like, we feel like things are in a rut, when things are not where they need to be. And you feel like, I'm just, I'm moving and slow motion in this conversation, and I don't know how to get out of it. I need you to turn back to your intents. That's how you get unstuck in a conversation.