The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - How to Talk to Anyone on Edge Without Getting Pulled In

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

In this Ask Me Anything episode, I’m answering your real questions—from how to handle a partner who shuts down after work, to what it actually takes to be a better listener, to what to do when someone lies to your face even after you show proof. These are everyday moments that trip a lot of us up, and I’m sharing the exact tools I use in my own life to stay calm, clear, and in control. Want your question answered next time? Join the newsletter! Order my new book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to a special episode and Ask Me Anything podcast episode where we're going to go over some questions that were asked in response to my newsletter that I send out every week. Questions about some romantic relationship stuff, how to be a better listener and how to deal with liars. I'm ready to get right into it. You ready? Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. I'm gonna ask you to please, if you would, find the subscribe or like or heart wherever you're listening or whatever platform you're listening to and I platform you're listening to, I'm going to ask you to click it.

Because I'm giving you a promise, and that promise is to make you a better communicator. For however long you listen to my podcast, whether it's just a few episodes, if you make this part of your daily routine, you will be a better communicator. And that's my promise to you. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth.

I love Cozy Earth. One thing that I got in the other day that I received was a bath sheet from them. They do awesome bath towels, not only beds, bed sheets, but also bath towels. This is, I'm over, I'm like six foot one. I am six foot one, not like I am. And this bath sheet comes up almost to my shoulders. It's awesome. You should check them and go to cozyearth.com slash Jefferson for and use the code Jefferson for 40% off That's cozyearth.com slash Jefferson use the code Jefferson for 40% off I have a newsletter in case you didn't know where I send out a weekly communication tip right into your inbox

Totally for free and in response every once in a while, in fact daily, I will get questions from people. I've pulled some of these that I wanted to talk with you about, they're awesome people that have awesome questions. Wanna get right to them. This first one is Mac from Michigan. Here's Mac's question. My spouse carries a lot of stress from work when he's very stressed out.

Me asking a question can trigger a reactionary response. All I can say is, I'm just asking a question. And then I shut down. How can I respond better? Mac, I understand because as soon as I saw your email, this hits home. This hits home for me. So I am a practicing attorney,

and then I have this communication advice that I love to share And it's a passion and then my wife is also a practicing attorney She does education law totally different world than me when we get home Yes, it is. You're like any other husband and wife There are questions that she gives me as soon as I come in the door or there's times when I'm asking her questions So I'm about to wait in some into some topics y'all that You may not agree with you might go out. That's not for me. That's fine This is what I'm about to tell you is what works for me. This is not a replacement for couples therapy

It's not a replacement for any kind of therapy. Let's be clear about that so Mac this is what let me let me give you first a perspective of what could be happening to your husband. And I'm just saying this from my point of view, whenever I come in the door, I am, I have finished my day. I'm driving and get home finishing a whole lot of high-level tasks. Tasks that big decisions for my clients, big decisions for me, big things that I took a lot of processing, a lot of mental energy. Maybe I switched between

doing a podcast, dealing with some issue at the office at my law firm and even switching between tasks just drains my battery really quickly. And when I get home and I walk in the door and if the first thing is questions like, hey, did you remember to call the plumber? Hey, what do you want to do for dinner? What do you want the plane to be for next Saturday? It feels like I am back into decision mode. Let me tell you why it as a husband, this is this is not Jefferson Communicator Guide, this is Jefferson husband, I feel like I

am going to fail my family in that situation because I'm mentally not there. The questions, even though I know, Mack, you ask questions that are totally reasonable, they're normal questions, questions that deserve an answer, that are necessary, or they're just out of curiosity. Sometimes the questions feel like demands in that moment. I'm already overstimulated. As soon as I walk in, the kids immediately want to wrestle. They want to play. I have to be in dad mode. And I'm just having a struggle to get out of that mode for a second. And the questions feel like demands. They feel like a pop quiz. And

the answer is, I don't know. I you know, I forgot to call this guy That feels like an exam. I just I just failed it. I'm getting judgment now that I'm a failure that I missed it I should have called them. I meant to call didn't happen. No, she's not putting that on me. I'm putting that on me Maybe it's another question about what we want to do next weekend Now I have to it feels like an ambush of like I don't I don't know the right answer and so if I anytime if it's did you or what do you want and I'm having to say I don't know that feels like I am not meeting this invisible threshold. Again that's not there it's just all on on on me. Now some of you might be listening and go Jefferson just get over it they're just

easy questions can you just be a grown adult? Yeah, I understand that I get it. I'm just I'm being honest with you and there are times that Getting a lot of questions right at home when I've done big level things and as soon as I get home And my my brain tells me these are lower level things And not in terms of they're not I don't mean in terms of not a priority that's not what I mean I mean some things are not needing to be decided in this moment and so I just want to push them off because I'm still overstimulated I haven't come out of work mode I'm trying to get into dad husband mode

family mode and that's tough I don't mean this is just a husband. My wife is a working wife, full-time attorney. She experiences a lot of the same things. If she comes home and I happen to be home first and I'm peppering her, it's the same exact thing where we just go, can we just not? Can we just please? It's very overwhelming in that moment. I'm telling you this, Mac, is hopefully a little bit of insight. I'm telling you this Mac as Hopefully a little bit of insight maybe some of you who are married or have Significant others might be nodding your head a little bit and going yeah I I understand that the last thing I want to do when I get home is feel like I have to answer a

Hundred questions when this is this should be the place where my nervous system gets to calm down. This is the place where I don't have to make a decision. Can I just please just let me get out of this mode first? So I don't mean to say that you should never ask questions. That's not it, Meg. Timing is very important here. So I'm giving you a little bit of insight to what might be happening or being experienced from your spouse. Now how do you fix this? How do we flip that? How do you ask the questions? Again this is what we do in my house. Does not mean it's what you should do in your house. This is what works. We have a three question rule. That means after three questions, we're stopping. It can wait. So that means we prioritize the questions, makes us think about the rank of

questions when as soon as we walk in the door. So if it's not something that's very important, it's something that's going to be pushed off. Meaning we're not going to ask more than three questions. And if I know in my world, if I get more than three questions, I'm ready to, I feel like all of a sudden I'm being avalanched. So that's, that's how it happens. I'll tell you, it helps also to have a routine for me. If I go home, walk in the door and I change clothes, I hug all my babies, and I get out of my work clothes. It doesn't even have to be work clothes. Just get into a different outfit. It helps my mind get more into, okay, I'm home. This is me. I'm not having to, my phone's down. I'm not looking at social media. I'm not thinking about some kind of post. Any

of that. It helps me get out of the that mindset there's another thing that helps and it is we are very communicative about the time so she's good at saying hey not now this is what she'll say she'll say not now but later can we start thinking about what we want to plan to be for this Saturday or if you want your family to come over or if you want to go x y and z and that helps me and her to know that we're not having this conversation now. She's not trying to force this conversation on me now. I'm sure just like you, Mac, you're not trying to force that conversation now. You're just being curious. You want to ask questions. It's letting us know that this is going to be a topic but we don't have to talk about it now. Also on my end, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I will say,

is this something we have to talk about this moment? Or is this something we could talk about later? Is this something that needs to be decided right now? Nine times out of ten, the answer is no. So just having that communication is crucial for us and how we're doing. Because we have two kids, they're the seven to five. So both at the time we can't even have adult conversation, real conversation until the kids are in bed, which means we're exhausted.

The best conversations we have is usually if we can try and find some time mid-morning to have a phone call or lunch or maybe we have a babysitter and we can actually have full-length conversations without somebody waking up, somebody needs this with with kids. So I know it's a stage and we're enjoying it all but that's just part of it. So for you also, for you not to shut down, what's gonna help you is Having this conversation with your spouse Saying I'm noticing or it seems that when you get home and I'm asking questions, you don't like that

What would you prefer that I do? What would be more helpful? Because again the questions you're asking they're not They're not like they're dumb questions. They are questions that need to happen There are questions of curiosity their questions of caring're questions of curiosity. They're questions of caring. They're questions of this needs to happen for this reason. They might be necessary. And if you have this communication, this conversation with them of what's going to be helpful, when can I bring this up?

Because there's certain things you can't just continue to push off. You can't continue to push off. That would be my recommendation. That's at least what we do in my household. We have a three-question rule until later, and we're very quick to say, is this something we need to talk about now? And already knowing if each one of us have had a very busy day, the issues that are going to take priority, because sometimes we can't even get into a conversation without somebody needing you know a cheese stick or

Asking for something to drink so it's just kind of that's part of it, but give you some insight there It's it's for me any additional questions when I come in the door, and I know she and I've had this conversation They feel like additional demands like a pop quiz and if I don't have the answer I start to feel like additional demands, like a pop quiz, and if I don't have the answer I start to feel like a failure and then I get more over stimulated and it just gets worse. So that would be that would be my recommendation for you Mac. That was a great question. Question number two. Hey Jefferson, I've heard you talk about how your content on improving listening skills is your least popular. I'm actually

very interested in that topic. What are some ways to be a better listener? David, you're exactly right. Anytime I've made a video or put any kind of content out on how to be a better listener, you know how many people like it? Hardly anybody. It's always my least viewed video because nobody wants to be a better listener. We want them to be a better listener. We want you to be a better listener, but we never want to be that person And funny how that happens My most viewed content is always how to handle the toxic person the mean person what you can do to To hold your ground with him. It's never how to be a better listener or be more empathetic or be more understanding. It's just that's the way the world works. David, how to be a better listener? This is

my overview for this. There's something with the goal active listening, which I think is kind of a weird name for it, but they term active listening when someone goes, mm-hmm yeah oh oh right right mm-hmm mm-hmm and they just they continually start to almost talk in nonverbal whenever they're listening to you that I find me personally I find annoying it can go too far it can go it can definitely go too far where you feel like this isn't really sincere now I've been on plenty of podcasts and the other person's like, right, oh, that's so true. That I find to be completely genuine.

That's completely genuine. It's when you can go too far with it. So there's that point of active listening, which is really just a way of engaging you, continuing to give you something to do while you're listening, while you're absorbing the information. So that's something I don't find unhelpful, but I want you to know that is out there. Here's what I would recommend to be a better listener. One is mirroring. It's very easy. You take the last little bit of somebody's sentence and then you ask it back to them. So let's say I'm telling you this phrase, yesterday you know I really just didn't feel

like somebody was listening to me. It was just a really hard day. You would reply, hard day? Or you had a hard day? Or sounds like you had a hard day? You go, yeah, no, I did. I had a really hard day. And then we'll keep talking. You grabbed the last little two to three words of somebody's sentence You just repeat it back to them now. You don't want to continue to do that Because then it'll be almost robotic like what's wrong with you. You're not engaging a conversation with me, but it's very helpful and and getting you to Listen second thing. I like to do with listening is getting very disciplined on the practice of refusing to allow myself to think of a response while they're talking.

That's the hardest thing to do, but once you master it, it is actually very peaceful. Let me explain. If you're saying something to me, David, and the whole time I'm just thinking of my response. I cannot do two things at once. I will shut you out. I'll just shut you out. You know how that feels when you hear somebody talking and you kind of it's like listening to them in the water or having head muffs on ear muffs on where you can hear it and they're just like this and they're talking but you're more concerned with what you're about to say and you miss out on what they're saying. Except my wife says she can do both. She says

she can multitask and that's true. I don't have that ability. So it's a practice of totally emptying your mind and just going nope, nope. You have to almost deny yourself thinking of a response until they are done talking. Once they are done, using your breath, taking a time to think and then give your response. Sounds easy, whole lot harder in practice. I know it sounds easy. Using your breath, even if you say, now I'm listening or I'm thinking, I'm thinking and then you give your response, you will be a better listener for that. Number three, what I also like to do sometimes depending on the situation is I will almost challenge

myself as if I am going to have to take an exam Over everything that was just said in this conversation now. I don't do that in a negative way I don't do that in some kind of punishing way. It just makes me tune in I'm making sure I'm really committed to knowing and Remembering what is being said over the weekend when I was in Denver. I did a speaking deal in Denver. It was a wonderful time. We were randomly talking about a group of us. We're talking about how to better remember people's names. And one of the tips that I gave was I will often, not only do you try and use their name,

often in conversation once I meet them, it is I pretend as if at the end of it, I'm going to take a test, an exam, over remembering everybody's name. And all it does is make me very more aware of paying attention to people's names instead of trying to be passive about it. It's that same concept. Instead of just passively listening,

I'm trying to be the student. I'm trying to hang on every single word. That means I'm asking questions. I'm not trying to push statements. I'm asking questions about how did that feel. Well, when you said this, what do you what did you mean by this? And I'm using the exact words that they use because it helps train you on being a better listener. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a new attorney, a very brand new just got licensed attorney, asking questions of a witness and all they're doing is reading their next question. They're not even listening to the gold that that witness

is giving them. The attorneys you're scared of are the ones that have their questions and just put them off to the side and they're just, they're in right here talking to your witness That's when you know They're not even paying a close attention to their questions. They know their questions. They know where they want to go They're all in on listening that makes you a lot more skilled attorney and just a more skilled communicator So that would be my advice there david from florida. Thank you very much for that question. That was awesome Question number three. This is Pamela from Washington Pamela says

please address how to handle what to say when you're dealing with a liar lying right to your face even when you present proof to them this infuriates me beyond belief thank you so much Jefferson Pamela I'm sorry that you're dealing with that here's what I want to say at the outset if you've presented proof to someone and You know that they're lying you're showing them that they're a lie and they're going no, that's not me Sorry, I don't I and they're still gonna lie to your face despite the proof That is not somebody you want in your life Pamela That is not somebody you need to safeguard that is not somebody that you want to be around

Because what happens is you end up lying to yourself lying to yourself that they can be fixed lying to yourself that this is a good person this is a moral person this is someone with integrity this is someone with character you're lying to yourself that that they can be different and lying to yourself is one of the worst things of all so I don't want you to do that Pamela That would be my first Thought for you there for anybody who's listening if you're like Pamela and you've shown proof to somebody and they're still Acting like nothing's wrong. You know them to be a liar

Then you're lying to yourself if you continue to keep this person into your life or at least as close as they are You need to keep distance from these kind of people to preserve your peace. All right to anytime I've dealt with liars Time is their enemy. They don't like you to slow down Interactions they want to quick buy-in want to give a lie. They want you to buy into it really really quick. That's why Liars often are very fast talkers, fast talkers. Anytime you slow down the interaction, they don't like that. So I've had it plenty of times when I'm deposing witnesses and I know that they're lying to me.

How do I know? Because I have proof, I have evidence that they're lying. I haven't showed them yet, but I know that they're lying. And they'll start talking to me and they'll say something. I know to be a lie and Then right after they're finished telling that lie I go really quiet like awkwardly long quiet and The liar will just they'll start to wilt they get nervous. They start talking to themselves. They start having conversations For me they'll start having conversations for me

They'll start having conversations like well Why would you think I would do that or they might what we call down here crawfish? They might start to back up. They might start to back off the lie. They might say well, I mean, you know sometimes I mean sometimes I don't do it all the time, but I mean maybe I mean I could have I mean it was pretty dark and they try to start to Resurrect and fix their story or they're asking for input from me. They try and Fix their melting sandcastle. They might say something like what do you what do you think happened? I mean, why would you why would you think I I wouldn't you know because they're wanting to hear me

I mean, why would you why would you think I I wouldn't you know, because they're wanting to hear me So they can take it spin another lie and try and fix the wall that's starting to break on their lie so time is To your advantage Third is used little phrases that is going to clue them in that you're not believing it These are phrases that I like to use and this is something feels off Then I'd say what do you you know? What do you think and I go? I don't I don't know something something feels off I can't put my finger finger on it. I don't know something feels off and it will just absolutely Drive them nuts or I'll say I need to come back to this conversation

Give it a good pause and say I Need to come back to this conversation Give it a good pause and say I Need to come back to this conversation I've done it in a deposition before where I said I'm gonna come back to this question I think I'm gonna come back to this question And I've just seen them go wide. I like please don't they just know I'm not I'm not buying it So it is you standing your ground And you see I'm using short little phrases and questions rather than going that's not true. That's not what happened You're lying. You're not telling a truth

You see how when I'm doing that all I'm doing is just giving more power more control to them For them to do something with it They're trying to pull that emotional energy that emotional attention out of you to do something with it. And the more it's the more an argument they can make with you, it's just more of when there's where there's smoke there's fire. So if they can make enough smoke and go look it obviously happened we just argued about it. We just spent 30 minutes and it's all it's almost as if the more you talk about it and more you deny it and the more they deny it's almost as if the more you talk about it and more you deny it and the more they deny it the more than the more that it actually

existed and that's not what you want so slow it down if of course you've presented proof Pamela and they're still gonna lie about it then they are a liar and that is not somebody you need to have around you Pamela all right so I just want you to be careful and protect yourself. Alright we had Mac, we had David, we had Pamela. These are all awesome questions. If you would like ask me anything questions and I answer these live Q&A type things please put in the comments whether or not you like this stuff or not. I'm gonna try and start mixing this up. I have a lot of fun with it that's why I wanted to talk about it because these are real people with real problems and you know what? I am too. We all are real people

with real problems. If you enjoyed today's episode I'm gonna ask you to as always like, subscribe it. If you have any questions just put them in the comments. I read them or if you have any topic suggestions let me know. My book The Next Conversation is still out. It's gonna be out for a long time. Very excited about it. It is doing very well. It's a book that I have poured so much into, so you can always find the links down there in the show notes. The next conversation, how to argue less and talk more. As always, you can try that and follow me.