The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - The #1 Parenting Habit That Builds Lifelong Trust

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Most people think better communication is about saying the right thing. But sometimes it starts with admitting when you're wrong. In this conversation, I sit down with Danica McKellar to talk about the lessons she's learned through parenting, faith, and personal growth. We discuss why apologizing to your kids builds trust, how to stay connected to a teenager who seems distant, and the surprising realization that most of your relationship with your child will happen after they become an adult. We also talk about forgiveness, anxiety, letting go of control, and why some of the most meaningful moments in life are the ones we slow down long enough to notice. Buy Danica’s book, I Love You 100: A Counting Book Full of Love: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/258549/i-love-you-100-a-counting-book-full-of-love-by-danica-mckellar-illustrated-by-josee-masse/  Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson  Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: AG1: Visit https://drinkag1.com/jefferson to get a free Morning Person Hat and free AG1 Flavor Sampler in your Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription. Tiny Health: Go to https://tinyhealth.com/jefferson for $50 off your first at-home test kit. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. I have a lot of people who have teenagers. And they say, Jefferson, I'm struggling to communicate with my teenager. It's different. They'll say, this is not the same kid. What are some things that are kind of your goalposts or pillars when you're communicating with your son?

So my biggest advice would be apologize to your children. Model recovery. As often as you can. Yeah. Literally, I've had something small, whatever it is. You know what? I could have done that. I'm sorry.

I could have done that better. It's free. I am so honored that you are willing to spend some time with it. me. Absolutely. And to have you actually just sit with me, have a conversation about all the things that is going on in the world these days. And one of the things I want to really talk with you about is here you are from, I would say, pop culture icon, to STEM and math and the books that you've written and your whole transition, I feel like you've gone, you've lived like three separate lives. Yes. I guess when you're old enough, you have enough.

experiences in your life. Yes, I have, yes, multiple careers, super grateful for them. I've been around for a long time. You've been able to kind of partner and bring a lot of those lives, like full circle moments. When you're able to integrate different parts of you into one, I feel like that's, and that's something I've experienced certainly in my own life of going, okay, you do videos on social media and it's minuscule compared to the career you've had. And you go, okay, how do I integrate family, faith, what's a passion, what I do, how do I be a present dad for you? How do you be a present mom?

It's a different level of peace I find when you find a purpose that's kind of greater than yourself. And certainly you've done that. You have this book, I Love You 100, that my daughter, who's six, can't get enough of. Oh, I love that. Okay. I'll make sure that I want to make sure that the, the, We'll have it in the show notes because it's just such a good book. You have a son who's 15, right?

How do you have a lot of people who have teenagers? And they say, Jefferson, I'm struggling to communicate with my teenager. It's different. Like, my son's eight. And they'll say, this is not the same kid who was eight, nine, ten. All of a sudden, they're in 15 years old. And they go, this is a different child that I'm talking to. I'm having a hard time recognizing them.

What are some things that are kind of your goalposts or pillars when you're communicating with your son as a mom? So what I would say, I feel like most parents want their kids to be sharing more and telling them more, right, being more open. But are you doing that with your kid? And have you been doing that with your kid? So I talk to Draco about all sorts of stuff, and I always have. I also apologize to him.

And believe me, there are plenty of opportunities for that. I'll just be impatient. I'll raise my voice. I'm like, you know what, Draco? Look, what you did was wrong. I didn't need to raise my voice. I should have expressed it differently, and I'm sorry. The look on your child's face when you say, I'm sorry, it's like this relief.

It's like this, and you make a connection with them. So my biggest advice would be apologize to your children. Model recovery. As often as you can. Yeah. Literally, I've had something small. whatever it is. You know what? I could have done that. I'm sorry. I could have done that better. It's free. Yeah. And it's so many other, so many opportunities. Believe me there are. And also,

if I made a mistake in some other part of my life and I'll describe it. I'll say, you know what? I just wanted to share this thing with you. So I did this the other day and it turned out that, you know, I should have trusted my instincts on that or whatever it is. Like just whatever, whatever you're going through. Like when Drakeo was one years old, two years old, I used to carry him around, and I would say, now I'm opening the refrigerator. Now I'm going to look for something. Like just teaching out of talk, right? Maybe it was one at that point. Or, you know, reading. I just point things out and just narrate your thought processes out loud. Oh, cool. You know, like, that's what I've been doing with him since he was little. We have a great relationship. Is he a teenager?

Yes, he's a teenager, which means I get a lot of eye rolls and like, mom, you know, whatever. But we talk. There isn't a lack of communication. And if he's a little, if he's like a little rude, I'll be like, you know what? That was a little rude. He's like, you know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I have modeled that and he does it back to me. So we are in, there's tons of communication. Yeah. But there's tons of like moments that aren't perfect. Sure. And then you recover. How do you, so I want to add that right there. Like that's a lot of moms are probably going, that's this is what I have with my teenager a lot of eye rolls a lot of like you're just trying to control me you know is there a way that you found with your son to not only handle disagreements

or model that recovery that you just mentioned constantly looking like in any relationship constantly looking for your part in it I mean it takes humility yeah and don't try to control them like if it's if you're if you're going through an ego moment of like I'm the parent and I get to decide everything that happens and I get to, you know, blah, blah, blah, recognize that. I think that's hard for a lot of parents. It is hard. It's hard even if you're super self-aware and I've been working on it for years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's just easier. Things just go the way you want to him and go, okay, you know what? Let me just, let me just relent for a moment and what do I actually really actually need in this moment? What do I actually, you know, or what just feels more convenient? Or am I, am I forgetting that he's his own actual adult human in there that's growing up? And I need to honor that and respect that.

So I'm an older sibling. I've got a younger sister who's younger by year and a half. And for any older siblings out there, you know, when you're young, you're kind of like, you're the head honcho, right, with your youngest sibling? And I remember at a certain point, I realized, we were probably around the age of 15 or so, I realized that if I wanted to have her as a friend for the rest of my life, I need to stop treating her like she was my younger sibling all the time. Like, just go, let me just step back a little bit and try.

to like honor things that she's doing that she's really good at that maybe I'm not good at. Maybe like highlight those or just sort of honor those. And she's my best friend today. And something I think people don't think about is that your child, your relationship with your child will mostly be them as an adult. Like the vast majority of your relationship with this person is them as an adult. That's true. So what do you want that to look like?

Start doing that now in some ways, you know? I mean, believe me. That's a good point. That's got me thinking. Right? Most of the time. I'm going to have way more time with my kids. Way more time.

And guess what? They can hang up that phone? Yeah. They can just be not available. What do you want that relationship to be? How do you want them to treat you as an adult someday? Maybe treat them like that now as much as you can. That's a good question.

Right? Mm-hmm. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about AG1. Y'all, my summer is going everywhere so far. We've got what summer camps after summer camps and dentist appointments and going here and there and traveling. And that makes it all the more important that I make sure, Sierra make sure that we're having energy to keep up with these cheering. Okay. And how do we do that?

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That is drinkag1, the number one, dot com slash Jefferson. And now let's keep going. How do you, I guess, define or aim or strive to be a present mom with all that you have going on? Yes. So, so Draco's dad and I are divorced, which means I get him only half the time. So when I don't have him, then I schedule all the things like this. Yeah. Or just meetings of any kind. I do a lot of writing. I also, I homeschool him somehow. When I'm with him, that's what we're doing. We're homeschooling. We're doing other things together. We're going on little field trips. We're, you know, scheduling time where we're hanging out with, maybe I'm friends with a mom. mom and he's friends with the son and we like do a play date or whatever. Like or we do family time.

So I try to really, I had these the two separate times. With Draco, without Drake. Without Draco, I'm a workaholic. Yeah. With Draco, I try to put that aside as much as I can. And that helps. You think it would be harder if he was with you full time? Yes, I do.

Yeah. To be honest, because I would need to create that some other way. Now, if he were with me full time, but he went to school, then I'd probably get that, claim that, you know, reclaim that time because I'd be doing that stuff while he was at school. But homeschooling him, that's different. Yeah. The women that we know,

and the men that we know who homeschooled their children, that to me requires a different, like, gear to be not just around your kids all the time, but also responsible for their education. It weighs in you because, like, am I doing a good enough job? Or they're getting exposed to enough things. You know, I feel like I'm really strong in math and science. Right. That I'm not worried about that. We're in pre-caccutus right now. He went through all my books, of course. Of course. Yeah. But sometimes like, oh, he hasn't really studied literature very much. But that wasn't really a strong suit for me. So maybe that's why, you know, his dad supposedly does the history in English. And I'm like, so, how's it going over there?

But his dad's also an amazing piano player, and Drago plays beautifully. Oh, that's cool. And also super smart with computers and programming stuff. And so they do all that stuff. And so it's great. You know, it's all fine. He's getting a fantastic education. Yeah.

But yeah, being present. So you know, okay, so here's a little piece of advice, too. So when I got married, I remember people telling me it's going to fly right by. The day's going to be over, right? Much like people say the childhood flies out. Right. So take a moment here and there during your wedding day to like stop and be like to stop everything and go take a mental snapshot. I'm here at my wedding right now.

Look at this. This is the wedding. And then try to do that a few times. So I will sit, Draco down. Like all the time. I would say probably a couple times a month. But Drake or just sit down. This is just sit down the floor and stare at each other for a minute.

He's like, oh, okay. And I'm just like, I just like, okay. So this is you now. Right. Look at you. You're becoming like an adult. It's like you're like a young man. Right.

Look at the hair on your arms. Like I just like look at you. You're like noticing everything. And he he rolls his eyes but he also kind of likes it. I think he feels seen. He might like it later. But right now he's like. I think he's, I think so too.

Yeah. Yeah. We, it's funny you say that. So my baby brother, say I call my baby brother. He's like 28. Just got married this past weekend in Austin. And it just happened to line up that we were on the way to take pictures. We all had these suits on.

My middle brother, so he's, it's me, I'm the oldest of four. It was me, my sister, brother, brother. So the older of the brothers was driving, then baby brother's riding, who's getting married, then I'm in the back. And we just had this moment. We were driving to the pictures where Jonathan and I, they've both been married. and we're talking to Jacob, who's about to get married of like, hey, listen, that, because he was all worried about his itinerary. We're like, hey, that itinerary, just forget all of it.

Like, it's not going to, nothing's going to go by the itinerary. Just take a moment to appreciate that we're here in the car together. We're going to have this moment. Like, we love you. And then later on, like, right before the ceremony, we got together and, like, grabbed his shoulder and like, hey, we're right here in this moment. And then right after the wedding, we're like, hey, we're right here in this moment. And so it was really cool.

cool that sometimes I think what's the takeaway is that you're going to have to find that time in your life to grab the person that you love and that means something to you and say, hey, I just want to have treasure this moment that we can have together. It's not going to be the same moment that's going to be there in the future, but we could have this moment right now. Let's not waste that. I think it's easy just to kind of let those moments go. We're constantly thinking about what we need to do next. Right. Then, yeah, we don't need to be here. What's always over the hill?

That's the energy I feel like you put out of this is very unselfish energy of what good can I do. How can I be about family good values? How can I talk about faith? How can I create these environments? From the math books to how you talk about being a present mom to everything that you do. Is that something that you find to just be a core value of yours? Yes. I mean, from being in the public eye from a very young age, I've always felt a responsibility to be a good role.

model from my earliest. I remember I was offered this granola bar ad campaign when I was 14. My mom was, you know, this was in the 90s. And it had sugar, but it had sugar in it and I didn't eat sugar. And we were, my mom had taught me not to eat sugar and I turned it down. And it was a hundred thousand dollar campaign, which back in the 90s was, I mean, still a lot, but it was even more back then, if you can imagine. And I was like, but I can't tell other kids to eat this thing that I wouldn't I guarantee you I ate it. I probably ate a lot of it. I probably, I mean, you know, like, but there was this inner core of this like this like, like this. Yeah. I, I couldn't. It was like water and oil. I couldn't. This identity. Identity, yeah. Like, I can't get up there and say so.

Like, it's like I can never be a politician. Like, I actually can't, like. I feel like you have the passion for it. I would be destroyed. Yeah, it's because you can't go negative. off and I can't play the game, you know? Especially not by Nutra grain bars. It wasn't NutraGrain bars. I'm not going to say, I don't say the brand. I mean, yeah, whatever the health bar is, whatever granola bar. Right.

It was like a health food, right? Okay. But it wasn't because it had sugar in it. So anyway, but the point is like I, for better or worse, have always felt an obligation to be a good role model. I never went to Hollywood parties and did all that stuff. and never did the Hollywood. Did you ever wonder like I could have?

No. It was a pretty bad. I think I've always been kind of a goody two shoes, which is why it's so good that I landed at Great American Family Channel because I could just be myself. Yeah. You know, I don't have to be edgy or, like, I don't know. I just, like, I don't drink alcohol, really.

Like, it's not like I, I mean, I have maybe half a drink every month or so. Yeah. I don't drink coffee. Like, I just don't, like, I'm like, oh, that's not as good for my body as it could be if I didn't have that thing, so I won't. Like, I've just always been like that. Have you, you see it as a sense of, like, there's some people that I know that are, they see it as it's very easy for them.

They're like, this is just where I align in my value. That coffee, I don't only, I don't drink coffee. Or anything that you go, ah, that just doesn't really mind. I'm afraid of getting addicted to things. So like, I try to figure out once when I was 18 and it was like really good. It was like nutty and sats. I'm like, oh, I'm never touching that again. Right.

You know, it's like that. I'm like, oh, I don't want to get addicted to something. Maybe that's control. Well, no, I think that's, I mean, that's safety. Right. I think that's, I know other people who also have very, very afraid of addictive tendencies. Yeah. Even though they've never displayed any addictive tendencies.

Okay, that's me. And so it's just that fear of, well, that doesn't feel safe to me. If that doesn't align with what I feel is safe and secure. And so it's just, it doesn't become, it's not that it's negative. is it's an aspect of that doesn't feel secure to me. And so I'd rather, I'd rather not. But I see people like, oh, lady is having wine and lunch. Yeah, it's so fun.

But like I'm on the outside looking in. Like, it's never, I never get to be a part of that for better or worse. Like, I just. Do you wish you were sometimes? Or just, no. The idea of it. But like in college, I used to go to sorority parties and I would dump out the beer and put water in it and then drinking out of a beer can.

And that was perfect. Got it. Because then people didn't look at me as a weird goody-to-shoes outsider. I can see that. And I can pretend to be drunk, just a little tipsy, you know, just are fun. Well, I mean, you could definitely do that. I mean, you could pretend it be anything. What's the difference?

Yeah. I can relate to that idea of, like, we care about where we are socially, and we care about how others perceive us. But I think you've done a wonderful job in creating the brand that is, your life and how you're treating others around. I mean, what you're building, I think, and continue to build. Is there anything on the horizon for you that you're really excited about? Any projects you're really excited about?

Well, I'm, like I said, I'm writing my next Christmas movie right now and putting faith in doing stuff. And I can't talk details yet. Yeah. But I probably shoot this summer. Awesome. And, you know, I do speaking engagements around. Yeah.

Just homeschooling my son and trying to stay in shape and do all the things, stay healthy. I feel like you're just a bright shining store. And I'm just honored to be able to share you with my community and say, hey, if you want a role model of somebody who I think is doing it right and got it right. But also like a total goody-to-shoes nerd, you know. Yeah, but you almost use it in like a derogatory sense. I don't see that. I don't see that as a... At this point, I'm in my 50s.

I'm 51. So I don't even care anymore. Like I don't, like I embrace the nerdy sort of outside. looking in aspect of my personality, it's fine. It's served me well and people in my, you know, surroundings, they all understand me and love me anyway. I think there are more people like you than you think. Maybe. I really do. And I think there are many people who are listening to this and saying, seeing that example of courage to just be who you naturally are rather than and being okay with this idea of on the outside looking into what the world says is cool or hip or whatever and knowing that

they can take courage in the peace of walking in your purpose and being alike to those regardless of what's happening out there. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about tiny health. Now, you know what it's like when as you're going throughout the day and you go, something's just off. I don't know why I feel off. I feel like I've been eating okay. I've been doing all my regular stuff. I'm getting sleep, but maybe my stomach is not feeling good. Maybe I just, I don't feel locked in the way I need to. My family's been using tiny health for issues that have to do with just that. What tiny health does is it is a take at home test that you send in and it gives you personalized recommendations and results that are science backed that give you a whole insight

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Tiny Health is offering my listeners their biggest offer yet, which is $50 off your first at-home test at TinyHealth.com slash Jefferson. That's tinyhealth.com slash Jefferson for $50 off. And now let's keep going. I would love for you to tell me how you came to faith that journey. Yes, because it was recent. Yes, four years ago. Okay.

So I've always been around Christianity a little bit here and there. Like when we moved from San Diego to Los Angeles when I was a kid, the best school was a Catholic school. And so I went to Catholic school. My mom was like, oh, well, don't worry about all that, you know. It's just, it's a good school. But don't worry about the whole Jesus thing. I'm like, okay. But it was around, you know, you're around it and you kind of learn about it.

And my mom's a wonderful person, a very moral person. She just didn't grow up with all that. So, so my dad, when I was around, I was a teenager, I guess, my dad came to faith. He's in real estate and the market had crashed, like big time, and he lost almost basically everything. Wow. And he came to, a friend brought him to church and he came to faith and he gave me this necklace.

He gave this to me on a 16. Oh, that's awesome. And I just saved it because I'm like, well, that's pretty. Yeah. And I was like, wow, he seems so happy. Like, he seems different. Yeah. I'm so happy for him that this is working for him. Like that was kind of my feeling. Good for him.

kind of thing. Good for him. I'm genuinely happy for him that whatever, you know. And then, and then fast forward a lot of years to, I think it was probably 2020 or so. And my friend Candace Cameron Burray, who is also on Great American Family Channel. She is very public about her faith. And she would read the Bible on her Insta stories. And I used to listen to it because it was just kind of, it was just calming. But I, and I, and one of the things that has, always kind of bugged me about Christianity. I just didn't understand. I was like, okay, I got to ask you something.

I had DM'd her. I said, what is this whole thing with forgiveness? So you can do whatever you want. And then Jesus died on the cross for your sins. So like, you're good. You're fine. And then you can just go back and do it again. She just ask for forgiveness and you can just do whatever you want.

And she's like, can't I send you a Bible? I'm like, sure. And she sent me a Bible. It was beautiful. And I didn't know, it's the story like, hey, thanks, Candace for the Bible. You know, you didn't open it. Fast forward. longer.

And this is on Instagram. Instagram. Yeah. And then she asked me if I want to go to church. And I was like, sure, but COVID was happening. And so, like, things weren't open or like, if somebody was even a little sick, maybe in the family, then we wouldn't like, finally, it was, so maybe it was 2021. Finally, in April of 2022, it was Palm Sunday.

It was the first time that it worked out for me to go. And they did the passion play. And there was something about it. Yeah. It just hit me. Holy Spirit came to me, flooded me, I was bawling. Yeah. I got it.

And the thing that had bugged me about Christianity was really just religion. And it was all the negative stereotypes about how all these wars had been fought in the name of, you know, Christianity and like people died and people. And I was like, oh, wait, Jesus was anti-religion. Right. Oh, my goodness. What? Like, that was, that was like, and I, and I, so intellectually, I got that. and then I was just gifted. I was just gifted the gift of belief in that moment. It was a moment.

And I remember Candace was squeezing my hand. I'm squeezing hers. I'm like, and the idea that it's about relationship and not relationship. And like all that really hit home and felt so freeing to me. And I went like the next week, I went to, I went for a church again. And I was like, I want to tell everybody, but I don't know anything. And she goes, well, just share your experience. And so I did. And you can find it from April 2020. I'm wearing like this pink dress and I came home and I just went live and I just talked and it's all there. I'm like, I'm like, guys, freedom. Okay. So I used to think that religion, like Christianity meant that you had like less freedom was restrictive. It's actually different. It's the opposite.

Yeah, yeah. So much freedom. I feel like my heart's open to my, like, and what you're, it's freedom from anxiety for me. And I'm not talking about clinical anxiety. I would never try to speak to that because I don't think about that. What I will say is for me, the anxiety that I have felt in my life, worrying, trying to control everything, having to figure out all the potential situations and how things go wrong so I can preemptively prevent them from going wrong, all that that I've spent so much in my life doing. People say, well, what's different in your life since you came to faith? The biggest stuff is the stuff you would never see. It's the stuff on the inside. It's all the in-between moments. It's every time I get into bed at night and just like

thanking God, just flooded with gratitude and having that, and then I do the Lord's Prayer at night, which I just love, I love that prayer so much. That, and then when there are things that happen that I'm afraid of, whatever is going on, I go to God. I turn over and a humility, giving glory to God. Oh my goodness, that's a huge one. And for somebody, I mean, for you, that you have all this sudden success, you know, my advice to you, not that you have, ask for advice. I love advice. It's just glory to God.

Glory to God. Every day. Constant. It puts you in this, in the position of humility to receive more. You also, but to use it as a, you're receiving to give. And it feels so much better than trying to collect riches on a throne. Like it's not. That actually, that creates more fear when you are protecting your throne.

To quote a sermon yesterday in church. That's wonderful. Protecting a throne. Like, no, it's not ours. It's not ours. And that has freedom in it. Because then you're not worried about how to hold on to whatever is that you think you have that you're reflecting. Just knows, it's glory to God, glory to God.

It feels so much better than our egos. It just feels better. I agree. Is everything good about it? For me, it's a lot of my prayer before I go and do anything is this idea. of let me be less so he can be more. And so it is, that's like my, that's what always hits me. It's like, let me be as little as possible to make room for what he's going to do.

And whether that's a conversation, whether that's content, whatever that is, in the way that it's not mine to curate, right? And so sometimes it's just me unlocking the door. And it's allowing him to do what he's going to do. But that kind of freedom that you talk about is something that I find is so easy to get excited about. Because you want to share it that the freedom is there and it's readily accessible. And it's there and it's something you could have now rather than putting it in something else. And so when you, if you were talking to that person who's, I don't know, let's just say they're in L.A.

or they don't know anything about the church. And because you've been that person. Right. Like, you know religion and you see all these type of denominations that are out there and everything. Right. And the holier than thou idea like, oh, the Jesus people, they think they're better or whatever, like all those misconceptions. And the thing is, there are probably plenty of people who are like that. They're absolutely.

So that's the thing. Yeah, there's not probably. They're all. Yeah, yeah. Right. So that, but that can all exist. doesn't need to keep you from having that relationship with God and with Jesus. I wasn't able to say Jesus for like the first years.

Like I would, but it felt weird. Well, there's something powerful in the name of Jesus. There is. It's a name that when you, like people are okay talking about God. Right. But as soon as you say the word Jesus, it's like, whoa, okay, easy. Right, right. Yeah.

Yeah, and maybe they're, because there's just the inherent power in the name and also because of everything that's been stuck to it, where people who aren't maybe modeling authentic Christianity and using the name in ways that aren't as nice, you know, to judge and to not actually live out what Jesus stood for, stands for. How do you now, how do you integrate this as part of your life? You told me about the prayers that you do throughout the day, now the content that you get to make,

and produce, what's been, if you could tell this to the person who goes, I don't know about this, Dona, I don't know about this. What would be just some words that you would give that person? I would advise them to ask God for help to see him. Just ask for that help because he's the only one who can really make that happen. and to give yourself permission to accept God. You don't have to accept God yet. Just give yourself permission to.

Like let's say there is somebody, this is pre-faith that I wanted to forgive. Or somebody who, I wanted to feel a different way than I actually felt. But I didn't want to let go of the anger or the resentment or whatever it was. I had this trick where I would give myself permission to let go of the anger. And I didn't have to let go of it yet. I'm just giving myself permission to. And I would say that as kind of like a mantra. I give myself permission to forgive that person.

And I could do that much, even though I really didn't. And by the way, forgiveness is like one of the most important that you can do. Holding out to anger and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. These are all sort of adages and things that I use pre-faith that really do translate pretty well. But give yourself permission to do that thing that you aren't ready for yet, but you know you need to. To me, that was like, that was the gate. That was unlocking the gate when I wasn't ready to go through yet. And then it pushes open more easily.

So maybe give yourself permission to accept God into your life. I love that. Yeah. I like the permission aspect because people feel like they have to do it now, like that go to it. Right. Like they have to take the step. we have to move, we have to go to A to B, but I think there's also a beautiful idea of, let me give you some permission to go to it.

Yeah. It psychologically, it just unlocks something because it relaxes you because you're not doing the thing yet. You're just giving yourself permission to you. I'm saying you can. You can. You can. Yeah, you can when you're ready.

You can. Permission, permission. It's kind of like that both can be true. Like I find a lot of the times in conflict, there's the struggle. And sometimes a very kind of. permission way of going about it is saying, well, hey, I think there's something both, both things can be true, how you feel can be true and how I feel can both be true. And it's that, like, a little bit of a psychological, just give ourselves permission to disagree. Give yourself permission to challenge.

Like for me, I think it's a, I think it's a good thing for people to wrestle with faith. Like, I think just the idea of wrestling with big concepts. Like, I wrestle with the concept of the kingdom of God, right? Like, Jesus talks about the. game of God is like this, the kingdom of God's like this. And like, these are big things that every time I wrestle with, or sometimes I wrestle with the big paradoxes. Who loses their life will gain it. Like, these big paradoxes and life. And so I find that if you can, once you kind of identify and attach, and I think we naturally, our lives kind of go towards this, or the idea of surrender rather than trying to control, really there's so much, you're not. You're not so much,

think there's so much peace in control, there's so much peace and surrender. Oh, yes. And it's like instead of this, it's a lot more of this. And when you get, you find yourself in that paradox on the other side of it, it's such a a freeing feeling. What you said at the very beginning. It's when you wanted to tell your community, freedom. Yes.

I have found freedom. It's freedom. Yeah. Because you're free from worry. Right. And that you're getting to live in the truth. Philippians 4, 6 through 7. do not be anxious about anything but in everything through prayer and supplication with

Thanksgiving let your request be made known to God and the peace of the Lord which surpasses understanding will guard your minds and hearts in Christ Jesus let's go that's a little rough but that was no I loved it that is my favorite verse that's a good one and then the Lord's prayer as well. Yeah. Those, if I'm worried about something, I just do those and repeat as I'm going to sleep. That's awesome. Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. That was beautiful. Thank you so much for coming and spend some time with me. I don't want to thank you for what you've done for the world. Like you have so many nuggets, golden nuggets of advice that I've used. Just the other day I saw, said you can't win an argument. Or no, winning argument is bad.

Yeah. That was like, that's so good. That's so good. Thank you. I just take it and I give it up there. Yeah. That's what you do. Yeah.

Yeah. It's great. It's great. You're just a beautiful channel for all sorts of wisdom and truly bringing peace to the world. And you're doing it in a way that doesn't require someone to have faith to get it. It's just I'm just in awe of what you've been able to accomplish. And I hope you consider me to be a friend. Definitely.

Through this new. I know you have a lot of fast fame. and reach out anytime. It's good to have a genuine friend like you who actually cares. No, I really do. I want to protect everything that you have had your life because the world is coming at you because you are such a beacon to so many people. You've helped so many people.

I bet you've helped so many marriages, so many parent-child relationships, you name it, and you continue to do so. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm just repackaging with somebody else, what he's already said. Well, you're doing a meeting job.

Thank you so much for being on. My pleasure. Great. If you win a $3,000 a month payday for life, what would you feel free to do? Maybe take a long weekend, every weekend, or try a bunch of new hobbies. Would you feel free to upgrade and listen ad-free? Don't worry. We get it.

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