The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - The Best Way to Shut Down a Narcissist

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Have you ever been in a conversation where no matter what you say, it’s clear—there’s no winning? Some people are committed to misunderstanding you. In today’s episode, I’m breaking down how to protect your peace, stand your ground, and keep your integrity when someone’s trying to make you the villain in their story. Whether it’s a bully, a manipulator, or someone you just can’t reason with, this episode will help you hold your standard and respond without losing yourself. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 40% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Order my new book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Also, come meet me on my book tour!  Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever found that there are some people there's just no winning? You're in conversation with this person and you realize there is nothing I can say that is going to appease you. There's nothing I can say that's going to make this better. On today's episode, that's exactly what I want to delve into. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. I'm coming to you from my hotel room in Chicago and about 20 minutes I'm gonna be leaving out that door for my book signing and I am thrilled, I'm excited for it. Just came from LA. Actually real quick, I'm pulling,

you can see how my phone is propped up by this ironing board. I have a, Wrigley Field is right out my window so I'm really excited. I haven't been able to tour yet, haven't had time but I wanted to take a second to talk to you about something. I'll do the whole intro here in a second, but right now this is what I want to stick in your mind. Some people,

and you notice this when you're in conversation with them, there is no piece of advice I can give you. There's not a word, a twist of a sentence, there's not a structure for a conversation that is ever going to get them to your side of the court, because they are committed to misunderstanding you. These are people that, it doesn't matter what you do, they are looking for a villain. In other words, they are trying to create an enemy in the conversation. And you might have felt this in a place of kind of how I started the episode of it doesn't matter what I say, there's I'm

never gonna get there with you, doesn't matter what I do, no matter how many times I apologize, these are people that are looking for a villain, and this is what I mean by that. They are deciding to behave a certain way in communication, in conversation, in an argument, and they know internally that how they're behaving is wrong. They're saying things that are attacking your personal character. They are exhibiting narcissistic behaviors. They are trying to be manipulative. They are saying things that are hurtful. Maybe they're lying. Maybe they're just wanting to put you down, and they're doing that and inside they know they are. They just really don't care about it. Even more so, they are wanting something

from you, right? They're wanting a response, they're wanting an emotional reaction out of you in that very moment. Can you see it? Can you can you picture that person in your mind? Can you picture that person in your mind? Can you picture that conversation? What they're doing, and if we could zoom in on that moment, what they're hoping is for you to react and respond in a way that ratchets it up. So if they come at you with a level 3 insult, they are hoping that you're going to respond with a level 5. If they start yelling at a level 6, they are hoping you start yelling at a level 7. They want you to do

more because right now they know that they're looking bad. They know it internally. But if they can get you to act worse, that's the key. If they can get you to act worse, well then that's all the better because you're in that argument and it's going over and over and it boils over and you say something that takes it a little bit too far and they go, aha, I knew it.

I knew you were this person. Oh yeah, then they feel like all of a sudden they are what? The victim. The person who started the argument I knew it. I knew you were this person. Oh, yeah, then they feel like all of a sudden they are what the victim The person who started the argument is all all of a sudden the one who just can't take it They're the ones that say you always treat me this way You don't care about me and they do things that are incredibly manipulative. I'm Telling you all of this for a reason. All right

And this reason is the people who want you to be the villain, you're not going to give it to them. You're not gonna give it to them. The people who want you to be the enemy. The key here is to never give them the enemy. Don't let somebody else's bad behavior affect your integrity, affect your character. What does that sound like?

So what does that mean Jefferson? What do I do with that? Alright, let's put it into three. When somebody is, number one, don't give them an enemy. When they start reacting negative towards you, you will not respond with negative. Mind you, I'm not saying at all that you do not defend yourself. You do defend yourself, and you stand up for yourself, and you stain your ground. It's this mindset that I like to teach and I teach all of my clients is that you don't have to push back, you just can't be pushed over. Meaning that if just because they throw something negative does not give you any reason to, well maybe it gives you

a reason, but it's it's not going to benefit you. It does not serve you to reach into your bag and try and look for something that's a bigger rock to throw, right? That's only going to hurt you. It's only going to bring down your energy, your integrity, and your character, and you're above that. So one, don't give them an enemy for a reason to put, make you feel less. Number two, what does that do practically?

That means you're going to distance yourself from your care of them. Simple as that. Actually, it's not simple at all. It's much harder than it sounds. These are people that even if you're related to them, even though they're in your life or maybe you work with them, you have to find a way to realize where you're going in life is somewhere they can't go. There's a reason why there are multiple pages in a book. There is a bigger story at play. Just because this person shows up in your life for two sentences and one paragraph and one part of the section

of this book does not mean they're on the next page and does not mean they're in the next chapter. Some people need to be left at where they are in your story. There's a reason why when a rocket takes off and goes into space, there are things that get broken off. There are jets that fall off because they cannot go where you're going. Right? And that same thing applies in conversation. I'm going to continue to be straight as an arrow in my conversation with you, and if you want to derail this, if you want to say ugly things, that's fine. I'm not going where

you're going, and you can't go where I'm going until you correct that behavior. So three, I want to end this, this final thought, three, with any time that you need to look for things to say to yourself is what, number one, what I like to, the phrases I like to use is to say, I'm not going there. I'm not going there. Somebody brings up something, says something ugly, negative. Aside from the different techniques we've talked about on this podcast, and we're going to continue to talk about, I like using the phrase, I'm not going there. It's a quick way to say, where you're going, I am not willing to go. Simple as that.

Two is to, I like to say, I see things differently. I remember things differently. I'm not trying to argue their point. I'm arguing their perspective. And when they're trying to get me to a place that is negative, I'm not trying to argue their point, I'm arguing their perspective. And when they're trying to get me to a place that is negative, I'm just letting them know you're not moving me off of where I'm at. And three, what I like to use,

and this is something that is one of these statements that keeps you where you are in the conversation, and I like to use this with people who are particularly like bullies is Have two things in mind one is using the phrase that's disappointing That's disappointing That's disappointing somebody says something negative. That's disappointing. They're trying to push you to trying to make you the villain They're yelling something ugly, that's disappointing. Meaning it's disappointing for them and it's disappointing for you because you expected

more, you wanted more. And truly, that's what it is. You wanted more from this relationship, from this person, you wanted more of them. Not even so much of expectations, but a standard by which you decide how you will be treated and when you say that's below my standard of respect. That's below my standard of respect. Or I do not accept that. I do not accept that.

In my tour, I've gone, this is my 10th city, my last one I was at was LA, and there was this beautiful little girl, sweetest little girl that came in with her mom and she came in with these stuffed animals and she had like six of them and of course we stopped. Anytime there's a kid I immediately have them come to the front of the line because as a parent I understand that's I'm not having a child wait two hours, no way. And she came, I asked her the name of each one of her little animals, and she told me she's as sweet as can be. And she was really dealing with bullies and people who were mean. And she asked for a phrase that she could use, and the phrase I gave her

was, I don't accept that. I don't accept that that and I'm telling you this right now because sometimes It might be something that even though I'm giving this to somebody she was seven He's seven going on eight is We need to hear that too. Sometimes that it's okay to say I don't accept that I don't accept that She wanted me to write it on a little bookmark for her. And it was just, she was precious. I don't accept that. When somebody's trying to make you the villain, I don't accept that.

When they're saying something and wanting that response from you, understand the power is not you saying something right back in their face. The power is not you throwing it right back, just catching it and throwing it right back in their face. That is not true power in conversation. That is for the weak. That is for the people who are fine arguing with a fool. All right? The true power in conversation is realizing it's not a threat to you. It never touched you and it never will. It

won't even reach your feet. That's the kind of mentality I want you to have when dealing with difficult people. They give something to you, I do not accept that. I don't accept that. It's not something I open the door for. That's not something that's going to serve me and serve my life and improve my life in a positive way that's going to enhance my relationships and my future and my legacy. All right, cool. This is the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Thank you for listening to this episode. It's called the Chicago episode. Very much looking forward to my book signing tonight. I have a membership that's been

a lot of fun. I'm getting a lot of joy out of doing it. If you are interested in continuing to push the limits of your communication, then I encourage you to join it. You'll find the links down in the show notes, as well as my newsletter, where I send a weekly communication tip. Write your inbox once a week, totally for free, and that also will be in the show notes. My book, The Next Conversation, of course, is out. I think we're three weeks now of New York Times bestseller which just blows my mind. And to thank you. Thank you to each and every one of you that has left a review or a star wherever you bought the book. And if you're listening right now and if anything I've said has given you

any kind of value, I'm gonna ask you to please subscribe or follow wherever you're listening from. So if it's YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever it is, I'm gonna ask you to please just follow it. It really helps because it tells the platforms that this is good stuff to listen to, even if it comes from a hotel room in Chicago. As always, I want you to continue to improve your conversations, and if you're wondering what this is, what I'm wearing, guess what, it's called Cozy Earth. Have you heard of it?

I actually didn't plan this, but I wear it all the time. Cozy Earth is a product that they make really cozy lounge wear, they make bedsheets that are out of this world. I encourage you to give them a look and buy something because their stuff is that legit I wear it all the time and so does my wife so you can go to cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off that's cozyearth.com slash Jefferson and you can use the code Jefferson for 40% off it's cool it's nice it's smooth this is exactly what I'm wearing to the book signing very excited about it and it's it's not like they're making me, this is just what I want to wear

because it's comfortable. Cool. All right, well thank you for listening to me here alone in my hotel room. Hope you enjoyed it. And as always, you can try that and follow me.