The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - The Conversation Every Couple Needs During Hard Seasons ft. Claire Holt

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

I sat down with Claire Holt to talk about something we all face sooner or later: what happens when life changes and you don't quite recognize yourself anymore. We talked about motherhood, marriage, guilt, career changes, and the pressure we put on ourselves to have all the answers right now. Claire shared what helped her navigate resentment, uncertainty, and the fear of losing her identity—and what she's learned about giving yourself grace along the way. If you're in a season of change, trying to support a partner through one, or wrestling with some hard questions of your own, I hope this conversation helps you feel a little less alone and a little more equipped to handle the conversations that matter most. Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson  Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Mill. Try risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at https://www.mill.com/jefferson  and use code JEFFERSON at checkout. ZocDoc. https://zocdoc.com/jefferson to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. Today, my guest is Claire Holt. You may know her from the Australia series H2O, just add water, vampire diaries, pretty little liars, Mean Girls 2, the originals, you name it. And what we get to talk about why I was so excited to talk to Claire

is that we go deep on the guilt cycle that moms and parents feel between career being fulfilled, being full-time parent. And we talk about how to know what season of life you're in and how to give yourself just a little bit more grace. We also talk about phones, the guilt that we feel when we're on phones in front of our kids and what role should phones play and some suggestions on how to handle it a little better. And we talk about how to live in the discomfort when you're trying to build and grow and improve yourself. Hope you enjoy.

Hi, so good to see you. Hi, so good to see you too. Likewise, I'm a huge fan. Thank you. Thank you. Same. I'm really, really honored to just kind of sit down with you for a little bit. I know that you have just a huge history of work in acting from H2O, just had water, the Australia series, from Pretty Little Liars to Mean Girls 2, to Vampire Diaries, to originals, all this things. And I'm, I'm, but I saw one of the reasons why I want to talk to you, Claire, is because you made a big decision here recently, and that was to take a step back from it all. It's almost kind of pivot. And that's really what I want to focus on, because I know there are a lot of people, a lot of women, a lot of moms.

And it's something that we're dealing with in my own house, right, of what Sierra is wanting to do, of how they go from this one identity, whether it's a working job, they're doing this, just switching to, something else, taking that leap of faith. And so I were really curious of how that played out for you. You know, it was such a challenge for me because my entire identity was wrapped up in my career as an actress and my value or the value I placed on getting the role, being successful, constantly working, booking auditions, booking campaigns, anything involved in that space, I thought, I derived my worth from that. So when I had my first son, James, I knew I had always wanted to be a parent from when I was very young.

It was my dream in life to be a mom. But I didn't realize how seismic that shift would be for me. And I really, really struggled. I really struggled. I felt down on myself. I didn't know who I was. I found myself shaking a rattle in front of his face one day and reading him these black and white baby books and I just burst

into tears because I couldn't understand how I could love something so much and still feel so creatively unfulfilled and still feel like, wait, this is supposed to be this big pivotal moment in my life and it's supposed to change everything in the best way possible and I feel so anxious and so sad. And so I really went on this journey over the last seven years. I mean, it's been constantly evolving of trying to figure out who I am outside of that identity as an actor and realizing that, hold on a second, if I had nothing, if I were just me, is that enough for me? And can I love myself as just that? And I think I've gotten there. I really, like, I have my moments,

but I'm really proud of how hard I've worked to be okay with just being me, just Claire, you know? Just Claire. That's the big question. Like, it's like this moment where you have to really sink in, am I enough? Exactly. Just me. Just Claire. Just Jefferson.

I think we all feel that way, don't we? Like, not even just mothers. I think that, you know, we have this constant barrage of external stimuli. And we look at social media all day and people appear to be achieving so much and doing so much and winning and earning. And it makes us feel like, wait, am I not doing enough?

Should I be doing more? Should I be hustling? And I'm so guilty of that, for sure. But every time I have those feelings, I have to just come back to, you know, who do I mean to myself as just a person? and can I lay my head on my pillow at night and be happy and proud of who I am. Yeah, you all have three, right?

I think two girls and a boy? Two boys and a girl. Two boys and a girl. So what are their ages? One just turned seven, five and two. Okay, that's, you got the spread. So ours, our son is seven. Oh, he's eight.

He just turned eight in January. And I still always say seven. It's hard, isn't it? Because you don't want to let go of that. I don't want it to be eight. Because the thing is, Claire, I remember being eight. And that's when I'm like, surely, he's not at that age yet. Crazy.

Yeah, so my son is, he's eight, and my daughter is six. And then after our daughter, we were like, we're good. Like, she is just an absolute firecracker. My daughter is the same. way. Yeah, she keeps it. And yours is, your daughter's the youngest? No, she's the middle. So my son and my daughter are 17 months apart, so she'll be six in September. Is she like rule the roost? Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Just last night, it was really funny. I was putting it to bed. And she rolled over and she said, thank you for being, thank you and dad for being my parents.

And I said, oh, my girl, we are the luckiest parents in the world to have you. And she goes, I know. So she really knows her worth this kid. She knows what she's doing. Yeah. She knows what she doing. My youngest is definitely the, she's the boss. My son has two moms, his mom and his younger sister. That's kind of.

Well, that's what you want. His little sister. You want a girl who is strong and opinionated and, you know, values herself. And so that's what I try and tell myself when I'm like pulling my hair out, trying to figure out how to parent her. I'm like, it's okay. going to pay off. It's going to pay off. Yeah. And I think that's a, and I think that's a great segue into this idea of first, before we talk about how you parent your children, I'm curious of how

you feel your parents parented you. How did we get to have Claire in the way that she's approached life? It's so interesting. I will tell you that when I had, when I became a mother, my respect and admiration for my parents just compounded. And, you know, before becoming a parent, I had all of these, oh, well, you did this and you did that. And I would have done this differently. And I don't think you, you know, worked hard enough on this aspect of parenting. And then I had my own son. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is the hardest thing in the world. Nobody knows what they're doing. You guys did an amazing job. Thank you so much. So it was really healing to sort of have that full circle moment, especially, you know, with my mother, I'm one of four, but my parents had three

girls. So, you know, there's an interesting dynamic at times with a household of women, I find. And so it was really beautiful to sort of have that, like, wow, I'm really sorry for how I acted as a teenager moment with my mother. I love when I'm like having this moment with my, it's usually my son. Like, I'm having to get on to him of like, you don't just break this. This isn't yours. and then I look at my parents if we're on a trip and they're just cackling. They're just like, that's what you did. Totally. It's definitely a lot of that.

You know, they, I had this interesting dynamic and I think it's similar in my house where my mom was really gentle and she was a nurturer and we knew we could get away with some stuff with her and my dad was really structured and I wouldn't say strict as the right word, but he just believed in having chores and doing it. the right thing and having a strong work ethic and no means no, you know, with my mom, no meant maybe not right now, maybe a bit later. And she, but she was so soft and nurturing and really encouraged us to chase our dreams. And she was the one who was like, you can do this. You can go to America. And she like helped, she put me on that plane and really gave me the

opportunity of a lifetime to move here. So I'm super lucky. And I think also growing up in Australia, was such a beautiful experience for me. It was very different, I think, to how kids are growing up now. And also, I grew up without social media. I mean, it only came in in my very late teens, early 20s. So I didn't have that. Yeah. I didn't have that deep fear, you know?

And thank goodness, I think sometimes we didn't have it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'd still be trying to fix that if I have. had it when I was a teenage. Me and you both. I want to make sure that I don't miss something important. And that is when you are, I want to kind of go back to the Claire that is feeling the weight of this acting career. And here she is looking at her newborn. And you're getting tears in your eyes and you're feeling,

how could I love so much but yet be creatively unfulfilled? How do I balance that and how do I know that I want to do something different and have that that leap of faith? And like, what am I if I am not this? If I am not. And there are people that I know it happens with mothers whose kids are, we have friends whose kids are graduating high school. And they're going off the college. Like, who am I if I am not the caretaker mother who makes every sandwich? You know, what is that?

And so what kind of advice do you have for? those people who are in a shifting of seasons. Don't judge yourself. That's the biggest thing that I would say because it's so easy to go, I shouldn't be thinking like this. This is a mistake. I'm supposed to do this or I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to love my child.

I'm supposed to love every moment of parenthood. It's so challenging for some people to have children and I'm so lucky and I'm not supposed to feel this way. Or, you know, judging yourself doesn't fix anything. it just makes it worse. So I think giving yourself grace and acknowledging this is a massive change and you can read as many parenting books as you want,

but you have to, it's a lived experience thing, I think. You have to give yourself time to adjust and you shouldn't rush the adjustment and you shouldn't think that you have all the answers and if you wanna go back to work, that's great. If you don't wanna go back to work, that's great. It's something that's going to evolve, over time. And I feel like now, seven years later, I'm just starting to hit my stride in terms of

feeling ownership of my career and who I am and feeling comfortable with the decisions I'm making and comfortable enough to say no and brave enough to take leaps that I didn't feel safe taking. That's the most important thing. It takes time. And if you don't have all of the answers in six months, That's normal and healthy probably. Why do you feel, to me, the emotion that comes up there is regret, you know, this, well, actually, if I dig deeper, I think the better emotion is guilt. Yes. Why do you, why do you feel that I'm going to put this in, again, I'm not a mother, right? I am a husband who does what his wife says.

You probably have some pretty insights. I do have some insights, but you have a very unique perspective. And the listeners of this podcast do as well. I'm curious on your take of why that sense of guilt. Is that something you've felt? Is that something you continue to feel? And if you don't feel it anymore, how have you overcome it? So I've always had a very overdeveloped sense of guilt, even from when I was a teenager.

I mean, I remember being 13 years old at a sleepover. I took a puff of a cigarette and I called my parents and I said, you have to come and pick me up. I have to tell you something. They came and picked me up at 11 o'clock at night and I stood there and said, I have to confess. I took a pup of a cigarette. I understand if you have massive consequences for me. I'm so sorry. So I've always had that feeling inside of me.

And it just increased a thousandfold when I had kids. And every thought, you know, this is the wrong thought. I'm not with my child enough. I don't want to be with my child. I feel guilty because I want some time to myself right now. Yes, this is what I'm talking about. Yes, that right there. That kind of like back and forth guilt.

But it also feels like starts really young. I see this even. There's a big difference. Like my son doesn't feel a thing. My daughter can be the first, like, I need to tell you this, like, because it weighs so heavy on her. And that's just really curious to me of like, you feel guilt about one, then guilt on the other. Yeah, you think it's a nature, nurture, everything.

I think it's a nature. I think it's nature. I think I was born that way. Maybe your daughter was born that way. My older son was born that way. My daughter, she doesn't feel bad. She's good, you know. So I recently heard something, and it has changed my perspective on guilt.

And guilt is. Guilt is when you should feel guilty when you're acting in misalignment with your values. So if I'm going to exercise, I'm taking an hour away from my kids because I'm going to go for a run. What are my values? I value being healthy and strong so I can take care of my kids. I value hard work, training for something. Exercise is a core belief that I think is it's really important. So is it in misalignment with my values if I go out for a run for an hour?

no, I should feel good about that. So I'm not going to feel guilty. When I go away on a work trip, I value hard work. I value, you know, building something or an entrepreneurial spirit. I value showing my kids that if you want something, you can go after it. So if I'm away on a work trip, is that in misalignment with my values? No, I shouldn't feel guilty. So I always have this system where I judge what I'm doing, what are my values. And if I'm acting in accordance with my values, the guilt has to stop and I put it to the side and I move on. And that's really helped me to reframe because before that it was just, oh, I'm a bad mom. Oh, I'm not there. Oh, I'm traveling. I'm on a plane. I've got a two-hour run that I've got to do for my marathon training. And I feel so

bad because my husband's going to take my Santa's soccer and I'm going to miss this soccer game because I'm just this crazy spinning wheel of thoughts that were not productive. And so that's really, really helped me for sure. Even last night, like in my home, it's Sierra, we were going to go to a charity event. And instead, I needed to do this interview webinar thing that was also equally important. And that was going to mean that I was going to have some, we found a babysitter, have some babysitter help. And I was going to make her work. I'm saying, hey, I'm going to, we're going to be fine.

I'll take care of dinner. And she just had so much guilt over the. over the fact of even going for an hour, you know, to this event. And I think it comes up over time. And I know everybody listening can relate to this kind of guilt cycle of, I'm away from my kids. Also, when I'm with my kids, I'm feel guilty. It's that I'm not doing something else. I'm not keeping all the, I'm not juggling all the balls in the ear.

And what I hear you saying is, what you've found to stop your cycle when you go through that guilt cycle is, to ask the question, am I acting in alignment with my values? Which is going to require some sense of what are my values? Is it, you know, I'm going to, you're going to be a better mom when you show up, happy, fulfilled, whether it's health or whether it's mental clarity, you know, it's, and the family wants you to go do these things because they know it's going to like refresh you and and like fill your cup. I think it's challenging, you know, when you're at the phase or the stage where the child's crying for you right there. No, mommy, don't go. No, daddy don't go. Or they need,

I need you to put me to bed or they're having some form of anxiety. And that makes that feeling so much more intense. And I think it's, I'm sure it's a biological process. Like your, your nature is to be a caretaker and to take care of this baby, this infant, this toddler, whatever it is. But I also try and tell myself in those moments, I'm teaching them that they have the skills to handle discomfort. I'm not going to fix the discomfort that comes up for them when they want me to be there, when they need something, when they're feeling all of this anxiety in their body. It's my job to teach them how to handle that, not to fix it for them. Oh, that's powerful, Claire. Yeah, that's great.

Thank you. I think that's big. It's helped. I mean, listen, it's been seven years of trying to fix it. figure out the right way to do it. And I don't, I've certainly not done that yet. But these things really help me. And when I feel sturdy and when I feel like a strong leader, I see it reflected in my kids. This podcast is sponsored by Cozy Earth. One thing I love about Cozy Earth is their bedsheets. If you've never slept on Cozy Earth bamboo bedsheets, you don't know what you're missing.

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I also want to pause and say, hey, do you have any advice for the bonehead caveman husbands like me, you know, who how is your, how is your husband? He's the best. supported you in these moments when you're kind of in the guilt cycle of having different wants and being pulled different directions and to encourage you to say, hey, I'm going to be here no matter what. What's the best way that he's been able to show up? There's a few things.

And first of all, like you're saying that showing up, he just shows up. He's there. And, you know, sometimes he asks me, do you want to? want comfort or solutions right now because he's a solutions oriented guy and he's very used to fixing thing. So sometimes he'll give me, oh, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? I'm like, I don't want to hear it. I just want to complain. And he's amazing at that. I think also, you know, we had a journey because when I first had children, a lot of resentment came up because so much in my life changed. And I wouldn't say very little, but not that much changed in his. You know,

he didn't have to carry the baby. He didn't have to go through pregnancy and postpartum. He didn't have, he could just take, he took the two weeks off and it was awesome and amazing, but then he went right back to work. And everything was the same. And I was like, hold on a second. How is this fair? Every single moment of my life, I am consumed with this childbearing, giving birth,

postpartum, raising, feeding, the pressures that come with that. And, you know, it's my responsibility to breastfeed. It's my responsibility to take care of. this baby. When he cries, he needs me, and I felt really resentful because I had focused so much on my career for so long. And, you know, I'm sure that that was very hard for him to navigate, but he just listened and he totally understood and he never made me wrong and he never tried to tell me, no, things have changed. I can't travel. I can't, you know, he never did any of that. He just went, I hear you. I'm really sorry. I'm here for you if you want to talk about it.

And that was super helpful. He validated that. And he's such a hands-on dad. Like now, especially with slightly older kids, I feel so comfortable going, here they are, I'm off. And, you know, we have help, but I'm very confident that my husband could take care of all three children by himself for a week and they'd be fine. Things may not be done the way I do them, but they'd be done the way he does them.

And he's their dad and it's great. So I think just understanding that it's a lot. more than just having a baby, this identity shift and all of the things that come with it, it's so impactful for the mother, for the woman. And so just like listening and understanding and giving a little grace, we may be kind of difficult to be around sometimes and just acknowledging, okay, like, treat us like a toddler. You know, your toddler's having a tantrum. You're not going to make them wrong. You're not going to, you're just going to let them have their moment and they're going to work through it, and then you're going to chat about it after.

It's kind of similar. You know, let us work through our process. And so that's what he does and he's awesome. And, you know, we've been married for eight years. And he's, I'm obsessed with him. He's the greatest guy ever. That's awesome. Yeah, it's really awesome.

I think we all go through that toddler tantrum, you know, all of us. Totally. And, but I think a lot of the times, in relationships, we have a hard time giving the same amount of rope, you know, to allow it to happen. Like if my daughter comes down the stairs and it's, let's say, 8 p.m. and she's crying and whiny and maybe her voice is louder and things and she's not liking stuff and she's crossing her arms, it's like, I'm not going to get mad at like, how dare you behave this way. Of course.

I see it as she's tired. She's sleepy. Totally. She's just sleeping. You know, or she's just hungry or she doesn't feel good. You know, these like very natural things that we don't mind seeing that through the lens of our own children. But we have a hard time seeing it through the lens of the person we had the children with. For sure.

Of understanding that they're also just as tired, just as hungry. And I do think that in any relationship, marriage or otherwise, it, um, it, um, it, it, brings up or highlights the everybody's own value of fairness like that just gets that just gets exposed big time you know me fairness is not really a big huge thing of my identity it is absolutely the identity of my wife really oh my goodness yeah she's she's she's big big big on fairness And that's got passed on to my son. He is big, big, big on fairness. And so, you know, but those kind of things, relationships have a way of whatever identity you have is going to get brought up.

You know, it's going to be tested. It's going to be pushed. And what you say, I think, is really beautiful of that sometimes you just need to go a little easy on yourself. When you're in this career change and you're not really sure and you're feeling like you're in the guilt. cycle. You need to go a little easy on yourself. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about mill. Now there are a few things in life that come as surprises. And one I never really expected y'all is mill. It is revolutionize how we do things in our kitchen. And we know there was a time pre-mill and post-mill. And in this post-mill life, it's been awesome. What is mill? It is an

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So you were telling me, Claire, about the thing that your daughter came home with. Can you show me one more time what that was? She came home. It was from her teacher. It says, give yourself grace. I love her teacher more than anything. And she's just so kind the way she helps these children navigate the big feelings. And she knew I was going through like a trickier time.

I'm quite close to there, actually. She's so awesome. And so she sent this home with me. And I put it beside my desk. And I see it every day. And any time I'm having a hard time, and I'm thinking about my failures or my guilt or this, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that.

I just look at it and I pause. I'm a big visual person. I feel like if you have this reminder in front of you, a vision board, write something on your mirror, it really helps. Is that why you think you turn to marathon running? You know, you kind of subconsciously enjoy the, yeah, exactly.

He's getting all your trauma out. Exactly. Is it that you've, you know, there is the people who run marathons that I know in my life. In fact, Travis, who's one of the, the producer of the show. Okay, Travis. He does ultra marathons, Claire. Damn, that is impressive. He does ultras.

And last year, I think he did an ultra like every month. Okay. What? He's about to run the Boston Marathon. I'm going to Boston this weekend to cheer. I'm so excited. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So like that one, I don't know if there's something broken in his mind. I don't know,

but this is the way it works. And it's super impressive. And so do you find that it's, you know, part of this, you know, ethos of knowing that it's not a race, it's a marathon. It's, it's not just one step. It's all the steps after it. It's not just this guilt here. It's where you, you know, your life is not the sum of what your career is in the next year. You know, for sure. It's like, you know, how can you be 80 years old and look back at your 37-year-old self and say, for sure. That kid was just figuring it out.

You know, what made you turn to running? It taught me so much about myself. And I think throughout the process, number one, it was a confirmation. that I can do really hard things. And I think when you actively choose to do hard things, it makes the rest of life easier because you know how to navigate it. You know how to navigate when a speed bump comes.

You know how to navigate when something gets tough. You know that there's going to be moments in training, in a race, in life. It's an amazing metaphor for life where you feel so bad. But you also know around the corner, there's going to be a moment where you feel high as a kite and you've never felt better and you could run another 30 miles and you're high five in people and and those two moments are so much closer together often than you think they are and so it it really taught me that life and running and everything around it's it's up and down it ebbs and flows and nothing is permanent and so you can have

an amazing race and you can have a terrible race. It's really outside of your control and it's really about what happens on the day, but your mindset is everything. And so I just, it changed my life. When I signed up for that first race, also I needed a goal after having kids. I really, really wanted something to challenge myself with, to look forward to and to commit to. And so when I set this goal, I realized how powerful goal setting is and what a difference it can make to your psyche and your mindset. And so now, like, I can't stop. My poor husband. When my line goes off at 4 a.m. He's like, please, come on. Now, I know that when you are facing these big, like, seasons, at least this is just me. I think I'm really talking more like to myself on this is I, I

it helps me when I realize when I am in one season and not in another season, meaning I want to do all the things, right? But that's not the season that I'm in. It would be great if I could go with friends or do this or go try that and go learn this. But that would take away from picking my kids up, put it in the bed, breakfast in the morning. and I know it's like that's not my season. And so much, I think when I come to peace with that, there is a big kind of emotional nod in my mind of like,

that's just not the season I'm in. You know, later in life, yeah, I'll get to have that chance, but that's not this season. And so when I know that that's going to be coming or it hasn't gone away, it can, and I, it helps me actually focus better on the season I'm in. Do you relate to that at all? Yeah, I find that sometimes when I see people having brunch on a Sunday with a mimosa and their friends. And I look at it sometimes and I'm covering in like maple syrup from pancakes and like I'm trying to chase a kid around with a spoonful of eggs or

something. And then I go, I know that that's going to come back for me one day and I'm going to be wishing I had those sticky fingers on me. I know for sure. And so I can watch the them and I can say, oh, that was a nice time in my life and I really did enjoy that. Maybe I didn't value the peace and quiet quite enough in that moment, but it's going to come back for me and nothing is going to compare to what I'm in now this season, this beautiful, beautiful season. In fact, I find myself really struggling to let go of this season and, you know, should I have another baby? Should I just have 10 babies? It's the greatest thing of all time. It's the most beautiful. There's so much love. I love it. They're growing up. I can't bear the thought of them leaving me. And so

you're so right to be it. I just try to remind myself, I know that this is not going to last forever. In fact, it's probably going to be another five, six, seven years of having kids in my house in the way that they are right now. And my gosh, am I going to miss it when it's gone. Before we keep going, I'll take a moment to tell you about Zok-Dak. I don't know about you, But my guess is, if I know you, there is a doctor's appointment that you need to have. There's a dentist appointment. There's a dermatologist appointment. There's some kind of health-related appointment that you have been needing to get put on the schedule.

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want you to stay and you're teaching them to learn to handle the discomfort right you're saying I can't do everything for you. You have to learn. I have to teach you how to handle the discomfort. And I feel like because we are now apparently adults, somehow that happened. Are we? I don't know. Yeah, is that right? I don't feel like that's right. I'm still 21. That, exactly, that it's marathons, it's, you know, the cold plunge, it's the, it's the, it's the hobbies, it's, the, it's the, it's the hobbies, it's, the, Those are the things that have to teach us sometimes to live in the discomfort.

And so you are, when you're doing the marathon and you, yeah, you have to run these, it's not like you can just go to the gym and do 30 minutes of a workout. Like a marathon takes a lot of training and a lot of miles and a lot of time. It's you having to live in that discomfort. You think that's some of what that's taught you? For sure. I mean, especially in Miami, Florida, in the summer when you've got 20 miles to run and it's 87 degrees and 100% humidity outside. No, it's interesting.

I really feel that because I can do this, because I have shown myself that I can set my mind to something and achieve it, it's given me the courage to do this. 2.0 of my life and my career. And the thing that I was struggling with so much, who am I, what should I do? Am I a business owner? Am I an investor? Am I creative? Am I still an actor? Am I a writer? Where am I going to go with this? What am I going to do with my life? Running marathons has given me the courage to try something that I didn't think I could do before. And so it's not just understanding that I can tolerate the discomfort, but maybe on the other side of that discomfort, there's something so incredible and I have to just go for it and see what's there. I think that's well said. Sometimes you just have to go for it and see what's there. But you got to

go for it first. You know, you got to. So many of us have, it's not only the imposter syndrome or feeling like we can't do things. It's what's everyone going to think of me? And what I've realized is people don't think about you anywhere near as much as you think they do. And, And even if you don't finish the race, your business doesn't succeed in the way that you wanted it to. Whatever it is, no one cares. And it's such a freeing thing to think about. Like, you know, we spend so many years, our formative years, thinking that everybody cares about every single thing that you do. And then you just realize, like, we're all existing in our own world and we're all thinking about our own stuff.

And so when you have that freedom to go like, okay, if I don't finish the race or I don't get to the end or I don't get the time I want, like, it's fine. It's nobody else's business but my own. And so that was a really like freeing thing for me to realize as well. When you look at, you know, we talked about the season, the seasons of life and understanding what season you're in. And we've looked at how you handle that discomfort and giving yourself some grace. And getting out of that guilt cycle, is there something that even now, even though you know

you can give yourself grace you you still struggle with a little bit yes and that's being on my phone um because i a large part of my business um both social media but also uh starting the business that i've just started my fashion brand that's right i'm the t-shirts right yes yeah do you have do you have a men's line or we have a boyfriend tea that i i make my boyfriend my husband wearing it looks great. But just women's for now. Say, give me the hookup. You're so sweet. So a lot of my business is being on my phone. And I have to make a conscious effort to tell my kids like, this is not, you know,

I'm not just doing, I'm trying to work and finding that boundary of like, okay, I have this device that keeps me connected and, you know, allows me to do all of this stuff in a moment's notice and fix problems. and, you know, come up with solutions, whatever it is. But also my kids don't know that. They don't know what's going on in that thing. That's such a good point. Yeah.

So I feel very guilty sometimes when I pull it out and my faces and I hear my son trying to ask me a question and I have to say, just one minute, I'm just doing some work. And they don't understand. And so that's something I'm really trying to navigate now, especially in the world of social media. I made a pivot that I don't share my children's face. or voices anymore. Yeah, same.

I don't do that either. And that really, you know, when I started, when I started having kids, I did not understand it all. And I had had this process of really struggling. I had a miscarriage with my first pregnancy and I was quite open about it. And I shared it online and I got so much love and support, a tremendous amount of love and support. And I felt very connected to my community in this journey of becoming a mother.

And so it just felt natural to me, oh, well, this is my baby. I'm just going to share my kids. And then I started sharing and I would talk about it. And I didn't know really what was happening on the internet. I mean, I did, but I didn't really understand. And then as time went on, I started to feel more and more uncomfortable about it. But I was like, well, I've already shared them. I've already shared their lives.

Like, what do I just stop? And then finally I got to a place where I was like, you know what? I'm not going to make a big hurrah about it, but I'm not going to do this anymore. It doesn't feel right. It's misaligned with my values, but these are not my values. And so I stopped sharing them. And I think that's created like a really healthy boundary.

But I still have to be on Instagram for my business. I still have to be on my emails. I still have to do things on my phone. And so that's, I really struggle with that, how to explain to them. You know, it's not like you just clock in to a nine to five. It's a very different world that we live in now. And so that I'm working on that one. You care if I share some things, at least what I've learned?

Please, please. With this social media aspect of it all is. And I'm certainly no expert of the right way to do it because I've struggled with a lot of that same stuff. So I very much relate to that. There is a fear in me that what I don't want is my kids at the age of 24, 27, 33, where they're in therapy, and they have to tell the therapist because my parents,

you know, emotionally abandoned me because they looked at their screen more than me, you know, they got chills, I feel the same way, you know. And it just, it is, I'm telling you, Claire, it's in my nightmares. Yeah. That it's going to be where they're having. these moments where they're telling the therapist, you know, I can remember asking them to look and they're just looking at their screens or we're at dinner and I'm eating and they're looking at their phones and they telling me no screen time. They're telling me no TV. Totally. Totally. No video games,

but yet they're looking at their phone. And I, you know, I think it's going to, I truly, if I'm projecting, I think it's going to be a pandemic in some sense of the children of the people who got these smartphones because this wasn't here before. And so I feel like that's kind of our age of smartphones. So that aside, and I know you and I share that same fear. Back in, this was almost a year ago, probably eight months ago, I decided I wasn't going to have social media on my phone anymore. Like my own phone.

My own phone. I'm not saying that from a position of I know right. I'm just saying it got to a point of unhealthy for me. because I find that I would look at Instagram. I have a lot of followers. You have a ton of followers. And I'd swipe off of it. And then I'd find myself all of a sudden without thinking,

clicking on it just again. A hundred percent. And it's like, it doesn't. Nothing's changed. But yet, and that was my moment of like, this isn't healthy for me. This isn't, this isn't good for me. I feel like, and so when I, like, I have my phone right here,

No social media on it. Instead, I've been able to get a team that shares in things, helps and things, monitors messages, emails and stuff to where I let them handle it because I realize that's not good for me. I'll tell you what my wife and I do is when we get home, we pick up the kids. Our phone goes on what we call it home mode. So that's our nice way of like instead of her telling me, hey, can you put up your phone? which is going to make me defensive, you know? And like if your husband was like, okay, what are you doing?

It just, what are you doing so? What are you doing your phone? And immediately, like, I got to finish this, right? And then it makes you feel like that guilt comes in again. I need to finish this. I know I need to home. I'm trying to just one second. Just one.

And instead of that, when we ask, you know, are you go with, can we put phones on home mode? Is the way is like our cue of we're going to put our phones down for a few hours while the kids that they don't see us on them and then know that when we do bath and bed, then we can have, you know, 30 minutes to an hour of like whatever we need to catch up on. But that's, we're still trying to figure it out. And we do phone-free Sundays now. So, oh, that's good. My husband leaves his phone by our bedside table.

He doesn't touch it for one second on Sunday. I have it for logistics. So if I got to order a pizza or if I've got a, yeah, yeah. I got the phone for that. There's going to have to be something that. Yeah. Yeah, practical. Someone's an emergency.

They need to contact us for sure, but it sits in a little basket in our kitchen and I don't touch it. I'll just check it maybe like at noon. Yeah, we have a little bowl in our kitchen. That's exactly what. And that's been life changing. I think that that's going to be something that's going to be in. Yeah.

Yeah. How is it affected Jill's life. Oh my gosh. We're just so much, I'm so much more present with my kids. I'm so much happier on a Sunday because I don't have any phomo whatsoever like, oh, these people are doing these things and I'm just, you know, like wiping butts. I have none of that. We go swimming.

We go to the beach. We play games. I teach them games from when I was a kid, like foot wrestling. And it's been so beautiful because our kids know if my mom has to do something for work or she's on her phone or whatever. They know Sunday is our day. That's our family day. And that's really helped. I would love to get better.

I would love to get to a position where I don't touch it at all when I'm around them. But I'm also trying to give myself grace and explain to them when I am. am what I'm doing. But it's a huge fear of mine, a huge fear of mine. Yeah, I can definitely relate in that fear, you know, and how we show up as, as parents. And I think that's, that plays a big part. You told me that struggling on your phone, you know, is there a, is there a part of your mindset that struggles?

Is it doubt over whether you're doing the right thing? And like I'm trying to give, let's put it this way, for the listener who says, Claire, I feel like I'm in the exact same season you were seven years ago or even four months ago when you decided, you know, to make the leap to take a step back from acting. And I'm, I am, I'm right there on the edge. And I don't know what I should do. What would you tell that person? It's interesting because it's different for everyone. And I think I would say, give yourself time to figure it out. Don't feel like you have to have the answer right now because it's going to take time. And you may want to go back to the career you had before, but it may not be available to you. And you're only going to figure that out when you get there and you try.

And then you're going to have to pivot. But it's, again, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. This version of yourself doesn't have to come to you immediately. It will take time and it may be uncomfortable. It may feel uncomfortable that you don't have the answers right away. But really trying to be present and to sit in that and to acknowledge it and not rush to change it but to sort of work through it, I think is the best advice I could give.

I still don't have it right. Like I still don't know. and it took me a long time to feel comfortable when people ask me, what do you do? I would always say, I'm an actor. I'm an actor. And then it became, oh, I'm just a mom. Oh, I'm just a mom. And now it's, I do a lot of stuff, actually.

It's really, it's really fun. I'm having great time. I don't need to identify what I am, what I do, who I am to anyone. And that's, that's something that, you know, it took me seven years to get there. So takes time. It does. And I think what I hear you saying is whatever time you think you have to figure it out, whatever time you think you need, give yourself more, you know, give yourself more.

Whatever time you think it's, it should take, double it. Yeah, yeah. Whatever time you think it should take, double it. Because most likely you're being the hardest critic of yourself. You're harshest on, I should have figured this out by now. I'm taking too long. I'm getting too old. I don't have this all right.

It's like whatever time you think that you double it, give yourself a little bit more time, which I think plays right into your give yourself a little bit more grace. And I think the other thing that is really important is you get to decide how you feel about any given situational moment. And sometimes when I'm really struggling and I'm in that hole,

I have to remind myself, wait a second, second, I can change how I feel. In the snap of my fingers, I can decide I'm going to be happy right now. I'm going to decide to look for the good in what I have around me right now. I'm going to decide to lock in on the giggles of my kids and how that makes me feel. And having those micro moments of control sometimes help you to feel a little more in control of your life as a whole. I think that's really awesome. And do you feel that the, that, the, that, the, the, the parts of you that have been in your whole career and acting, do you think that is played to be a strength or a weakness,

you know, in this, or maybe not a weakness, but at least sometimes a hurdle or an obstacle in the life that you have now? In terms of putting on a front or acting as something else? Yeah, yeah, trying to say, am I really being clear? or am I trying to put on, put on the role of mom? Oh, yeah, for sure. And it's because I didn't feel good about myself and who I was.

And those insecurities led me to act as if or put on a front or, you know, hide behind, well, I'm an actor, I'm this, I'm that, or I'm just a mom. And, I mean, I've been in therapy for almost 20 years. Like I, it, it's taken me so long to work through all of this stuff and, and to get to a place where I feel super comfortable with who I am. And so that's another thing. I would suggest, you know, it doesn't have to be a therapist, but just talk to someone. Don't do it by yourself. You don't have to sit in that world of, of discomfort or insecurity alone. And hopefully you have a partner, especially with your mother, hopefully you have a partner that you can share that

with and be vulnerable with because sometimes just speaking it out loud, it gives you freedom as well. Yeah. I think I read recently of you're not meant to heal alone. And I think that was something that stuck with me. Claire, thank you so much for your time with me. Yeah, getting to hear how you approach life. And I know I can tell that we're in the same season, you know, right now. And that gives me, that gives me a lot of hope. and a good reminder. You're out of diapers. You're a little bit further ahead in the season. I'm sure about some diapers going on. I can't tell them to go get ready for bed and they go do it. Oh, how nice. They listen to you? What a dream. That is, yeah, no, they don't. And my favorite

is when my wife will, you know, Sierra will do something of like, okay, Mr. Communication, like if I totally blow it like with my kids. It's also the, it sounds like you had a great. I do. I really do. Awesome. That's awesome. Claire, thank you so much. Thank you for your time. I'll look forward to staying in touch. Likewise. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it,

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