The Jefferson Fisher Podcast - What I Learned Running The #1 Restaurant in the World ft. Will Guidara

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Most people think hospitality is just about service. Will Guidara believes it’s about making people feel seen. In this conversation, Will and I talk about what it really means to care for people well—whether you’re leading a team, managing a business, sitting across from someone you love, or just trying to become a better communicator. From turning Eleven Madison Park into the #1 restaurant in the world to helping create the hit show, The Bear, Will shares the mindset that changed everything for him: the smallest moments often leave the biggest impact. We talk about thoughtful criticism, leading with grace, creating team culture, and why the best communicators listen for what people aren’t saying. Buy Will’s book, Unreasonable Hospitality and the field guide we dug into in today’s episode - https://www.unreasonablehospitality.com/books  Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson  Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. Our Place. Visit https://fromourplace.com/JEFFERSON and use code JEFFERSON for 10% off sitewide. Upwork. Visit https://Upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with expert freelancers who can help you grow faster without adding full-time overhead. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show!  Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter.  Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube  Follow me on Instagram  Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher podcast. On today's episode, my guest is Will Gadera. He is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Unreasonable Hospitality. If you see a bright yellow book in an airport or a bookstore, it's most likely Will's. He is fantastic. He is the former co-owner of the restaurant, Levin Madison Park in New York. And under his leadership, it was named the number one restaurant in the entire world. And he is also the co-producer of FX series Emmy Award-winning show, The Bear.

there are so many gems from this conversation. We talk all about the art of hospitality in conversation. How do you bring creativity and deliver more than just the minimum expectations and how we interact with one another? We talk all about how to have the right kind of meetings, how to get attention immediately, how to navigate the right way, and at the end of the day, how to do it with grace and kindness and a little bit of something spontaneous that you never expected.

Enjoy. So you go to a restaurant and then it's easy to kind of pick up on those little moments. I imagine even when you're working, and even if you're just there hanging out, it's almost impossible for your eyes not to be just hypervigilant the whole time. Well, so like with intention.

Yes. The other night at dinner, I sat in the chair facing the window. Yeah, I noticed that. I will always, if there's a chair where I'm looking at a wall, that's where I'll sit. Yeah.

Just because I've gotten pretty good at it, but like I don't need and it's like an addict hanging out with like heroin on the table it's unnecessary yeah yeah you don't need to be doing that I don't need the distraction because I will invariably like

why are they yeah and all of a sudden and then you're gone and then I just miss the most beautiful part of the conversation that I helped to perhaps set in motion I get that I have one of my best friends was a policeman forever

and still he sits always where you can see the door Like, that's just, he's not going to sit anyway. He can't feel comfortable not looking at a door when he's sitting down like that. So I do the opposite. You do the opposite. Well, yeah, because you don't want to see it. And one thing I was going to.

But also, my work doesn't have the capacity to save someone's life. That's true. Well, you are training in the Heimlich. You know what I'm saying? Like, he might be. And I was going to tell you, this is a little gym. Most people don't know. So when I was at my old first law firm, big defense firm,

and I was getting the itch of, I'm in my mid-20s, and everybody in their mid-20s thinks, I know this better than everybody. Like, I'm the smartest. I know this. I'm right, everybody else was wrong. And I was really wanting to learn business of, like, having my own business.

Because I went straight from law school into big law and doing that life. And business hasn't started in real. confirmed. Yeah, or just how do you how do you have your own employees? Like what's that? How would you even do that? Yeah, yeah. And so COVID,

one of my best friends, amazing chef by himself and he had just got to let go of this restaurant and then there was this like, I don't know what they call it, class A commercial building that had a restaurant in it that was looking for a new person to come in.

And so I came in with him and we opened that little restaurant. You actually did it. Uh-huh. And a coffee shop right next to it. Like a, no way. American food little place that did really well. And so I learned all about plate costs and all of like things.

Were you actually in it? Yeah, dude. You're like on the floor? Yeah. No way. Yeah. And so it was, and I would help out on Expo and try all the different. Yeah.

And so it was. Is that restaurant still there? It's still there. It's sold mine. It's like I got, it was like I could either try to get an MBA in business or I could just put the same amount of money into. You go working a restaurant for a while. Yeah, yeah, and doing it, even though many would say not the best business model for certain things. But it was, it was fantastic.

And what I learned a lot, and I think whereas I wish I had had, and we're going to talk into this field guide that you have. I'm generally not a jealous guy. All right. This field guide, as soon as I saw it and got up my hands, I was like, doggone, this is so good. I wish I had had that. Thank you. Because I came in, and a lot of my creativity, which I think, I know, I'm actually a very creative person that just went into law, and life has led me back to doing more creativity, is I got focused on brand. I got focused on the right logo, the right tagline, the right, like, aesthetic.

Yes. Instead of just serving people to what they were above and beyond and exceeding that expectation. And I know a lot of your stuff is, it's not just hospitality is not meeting expectation. It is exceeding it and giving people more than they think they could ever deserve. And so that was my, like, I need to make sure I mention that to him. Thank you, dude. So I wish I'd had that. But I got in and out.

I had it for like four years. And you had fun? I did. I had a blast. And you learned a bunch. I learned a bunch. I had some of the biggest laughs I've ever had in my life. Also, there are few things.

There are few groups that will ever be as close. As a group that has opened a restaurant together. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. It's the entire emotional gamut. Yeah. Like you have all the highs and the fun and laughs and then those moments when you're on Expo.

Yeah. And you're like, I was a very successful lawyer. How does my brain have an inability to figure out, what plate of food goes to what table within what frame of time? And then there's the teamwork to figure it out. I love that. And the thing was at the time, the law firm was like shut down for a year. because they were trying to still get with the times of remote work.

So you had space. And so, yeah, I had space, and because it was a commercial building, we were able to do a lot of stuff that others weren't. Take advantage of proximity and six feet or whatever. But, man, I laughed some of the hardest I've ever laughed. It's so fun. And being back a house doing stuff like that. And we had, it was also some of the worst hurricanes.

And so we were able to provide a lot of food for first responders. And so we're making food at like 4 a.m. Let's open a restaurant. We have to figure out how to work within all of the adversity that is COVID. Yes. You know what? What else would be cool? Hurricanes.

That's right. Anybody got it? Anybody? Yes, that's it. Hurricanes. Let's go. Man, but mine is just a small fraction of just the depth of knowledge that you have in this industry. And I do, I absolutely want to get into the field guide,

which I am just thrilled to be one of the first to get it in their hands. But what you articulated, like the brand. Yeah. And it is very, very common for someone to get like, all right, I want to be really creative about the food on the plate. I want to be really creative about what plates we use, about what the room looks like. I want to be creative of what the logo is.

and the tagline and the uniforms, and yet, the one thing that people will actually remember is where people stop being creative. Yeah. And... Where they stopped. Where they stop.

No one, very few people, rather, invest their best efforts into just the big and little things that make people feel a sense of connection to a place. Yeah, I think that's so right. And it's so counter... Like the moment you say it out loud like that. Yeah.

And it's like, oh, well, that makes sense. But yet. But yet. Yeah. But yet. I, you have the book, Unreasonable Hospitality, and I'm going to be able to share with my audience all of your background. But I, my mind always turns to communication.

Yeah. And so I have been toying with the idea of, like, what is the equivalent of unreasonable hospitality? in communication. If we define hospitality as you do, the creative, intentional act of making people feel seen, heard, and cared for, above and beyond the service,

what does that feel, like, look like in communication? So I was curious in your mind, whether it's relationships, whether it's team, because I do want to talk team, what do you find are those moments that have been that unreasonableness that you benefited from in conversation with people. So some of your best friends. Well, I mean, I think a lot of your work centers around hospitality.

Right. I really did. Like, those two words, creativity and intention, I circle back too often. Right. I think the most beautiful things happen at the intersection of those two things, right? the intention of saying, I want to communicate this. Because a lot of people in communication are not very intentional about what is coming out of their mouths, right? As opposed to saying, what am I actually trying to communicate?

Okay, it's this. Then creativity. What's the right way to communicate it, such that the message will actually be received and, depending on the context, in a way that is supportive and not destructive or thoughtful and not insulting, right? When it's that kind of communication?

Or if you're attempting to make someone feel some level of affirmation, they're actually communicating to them in a way that they can receive it well. Yeah. So like on the... I talk a lot about feedback.

Right. I think you cannot create anything extraordinary in a business absent, like creating a culture where feedback is the norm. When I talk about feedback, yes, I'm talking about praise, obviously. Because when you set really high expectations for people and they meet or exceed those expectations, you better be there to celebrate them.

Yeah. A, because it's the right thing to do. But, well, B, the more praise I receive, the more praise I want to receive. You're telling people what right looks like, and you're encouraging them to do more of that. Not to mention the fact that in a group, if we're having a daily huddle,

and I'm celebrating the heck out of you, everyone else in the group is going to be like, I want a piece of that. Exactly. So obviously praise, but I think we focus so much on praise that we don't spend nearly enough time focusing on criticism. Because of praise is affirmation,

criticism is investment. So if we can say an equivalent of unreasonable hospitality and communication is the value of criticism done right thoughtful criticism thoughtful criticism yeah and in the same way that i've watched your videos really like hey if you want to do this like do this yeah right right you where some other ways that you could exactly it was kind of like your idea of like there's a better way to do this there's a better way to a restaurant a hotel you know there's a better way to do this but with criticism i mean understand reasonable communication and criticism is recognizing that there's like things you need to keep in mind

if you want it to be thoughtful, if you want it to be an investment. Let's criticize in private, not in public. It's criticize the behavior, not the person. Remember that I'm telling you to wear white socks. I'm not telling you're an idiot. You know what I'm like? You're great. Right.

Just do this differently. To criticize consistently. because some people are so uncomfortable with investing in someone else's growth through criticism that they don't do it until they're either in a bad mood or have the energy. Yeah. Two things happen when you are inconsistent in criticism. People don't actually know what right looks like because they could do the same thing three days in a row, and they're only getting called on it the third.

Or a negative connotation is attached to it because you only do it when you're in a foul mood, right? And so you do it in a bad way. Do you think that there's like a line between just feedback, general feedback, and also criticism? I think criticism is a type of feedback. Okay. I think praise is a type of feedback. Yeah. Criticism is a type of feedback.

Not all feedback is criticism. No. If you do something great, my feedback is, hey, you crushed that. Right. That's feedback. Mm-hmm. Or if you do something not so great, hey. But listen, anyone that wants to grow,

if they're not receiving criticism, they're never going to become their most fully realized self. Yeah, you have to have it. It's like, do you see a trainer? Four. Like a physical trainer? This is all organic, brother. That just comes to these wake up like that.

Yeah, that's right. Well, I do. I probably would benefit from one. I just started this year, and it's a game changer. Does it really? What it's done is I spend. I need someone for nutrition. Like I need somebody to help go, you need to eat these things because if I'm not careful

with school drop off and everything, I will miss breakfast and I turn around and it's 2 o'clock. And it's like, okay. And then you're eating the least healthy thing in the entire world. For sure. And then it happens that I'm really not hungry for 5.30 p.m. dinner with my kids. And so, you know, not my bet. That's what I need. Okay, so trainer.

Well, first of all, it's a great thing to have in my experience because I get as much done in half the time. but if I'm doing a workout not the right way, I want him to tell me what I'm doing wrong. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm just wasting time, and I'd rather invest that time efficiently and actually get stronger by result of the investment.

And how much stronger you could get if you just move your form just like a little bit. But if every time the trainer was like, hey, do this, try and they're, bro, stop talking to me like that. Yeah, I'm doing it right. Guess what he's going to stop doing? Yeah. Correcting me.

Right. Because it's too exhausting to give me the feedback. Yeah. Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about cozy earth. First off, my mama has their pajama set, which I gave to her last year. They, the company sent them to me. You're like, here, maybe your mom's going to like these. I was like, let me send them to my mom.

Who, let me tell you, is the type of person who likes to salt and pepper everything. So she's extremely particular about all the things. And she told me so much that she loved these. I got a text from her three weeks before Mother's Day asking me if I still had my code for Cozy Earth because she wanted some more pajamas. I said, Mama, I will get them for you. So you all know, I got her some more pajamas. But that's how good they are. So if you, whether it's Mother's Day or not, who cares?

If you know a mom or you're a mom or you're just somebody who likes to sleep in a full set pajama, you can go to CozyEarth.com slash jefferson, use the coach Jefferson, and get up to 20% off. They have a 10-year warranty, awesome product, awesome company. Gozhearth.com slash Jefferson. Used to go Jefferson for 20% off. Let's keep going. When I was on the way, knowing this conversation was coming, I was like, wow, I was just wrestling and kind of chewing on the idea of, like, to me, what is that unreasonable hospitality in conversation?

And the theme that kept coming up for me is grace. Grace can be an unreasonable. thing, like an unreasonable feeling. And it draws that line between mercy and grace. Mercy being, you don't get what you deserve. Grace is you get what you don't deserve. And so, so much in conversation, like you might deserve me to give

you that clapback comeback insult right in your face. Yes. It would be unreasonable for me. Yes. To have pause and decide that your worst moment is not going to determine how I respond. Do you know, the phrase that I learned from my longtime mentor, his name is Danny Meyer, is Danny Meyer, who is one of the central tenants of the company, was charitable assumption. When you say the company, I want to... Unreasonable. Unisquare Hospitality Group. Yes, got it. Okay. So that It was like, Grand Racy Tavern, Union Square Cafe. It's where I came up. And there's a whole other idea about communication from that company.

But he had these isms, like these short, succinct. I love a good ism. Bordering on cheesy articulations of his non-negotiables. And every time he made an idea into an ism, it was like a meta-signal to all of us in the company that that thing mattered. Yeah. one of them was charitable assumption charitable assumption is another way of saying

give people the benefit of the doubt or ask the question before you say the thing so I give an example someone comes into the restaurant and they're just a jerk they are just a jerk they're acting like a jerk now it's totally reasonable for me to say he doesn't deserve

my best hospitality. The charitable assumption, though, would have me say, instead, gosh, maybe on his way to the restaurant, he found out that someone died. Or his wife filed for divorce. Maybe the guy acting like a jerk actually needs my hospitality more than anyone else in the room. And for me to have that conversation and engage accordingly. Yeah. Now, sometimes.

just so out, but the person was just a jerk. Turns out, yeah. But I'd always rather err on the side of assuming the best and someone and being proven wrong than err on the side of assuming the worst and being proven wrong. I think that's so true. If you can keep in your mind those maybes, you know, rather than they are exactly what you think they are. Yeah.

And sometimes maybe they are. Yeah. But maybe they're not. But it's the same thing when you're managing people. Someone comes in and they've been. like five minutes late to work for two weeks straight and because

I'm not criticizing consistently I wait until I'm really upset. Yeah. And I just rip into them like do you not care about this job? Like why do you think it's okay to disrespect us by coming in five? Do-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Right. Charitable assumption would be like

hey what's going on. Are you okay? Like I've noticed you're five minutes late every single day and is there a reason? And by the way, maybe it's because that person, I'm speaking New York right now, lives in Queens, and there's two different buses

that get them to Manhattan on time. One would have them arriving at the restaurant an hour early. One has them arriving five minutes late, and they have to get their kids to school. Yeah. Okay, now I've asked the question. Now I have that information.

Now I can say, you know what, why don't we just shift your in-time back 15 minutes? Yeah. just a little bit like that and now that relationship had I reacted the first way it would have been damaged react in the second way

now it's actually stronger because now they feel like I'm actually invested in them not just as an employee but as a human being and you gave them some grace yeah and I learned something along the way right and that in itself can be unreasonable

yeah which which is I think the state of things sometimes doing the kind thing can be and feel unreasonable to the given moment. Now, you have managed, I mean, just the number of teams and the number of pressure. And I have heard your story of how Levin Madison part had just went under your helm to the number one restaurant in the world, which is just bonkers. Right. But the level of determination, not for just the food being perfect or this being perfect,

is that you cared just as much about your team as you did about the people that you're serving. And so there are people that will be listening to this who have their own business, who are small business owners or big business owners that are people managers. And so what I was really curious about, what are some of the questions and things that we need to think, about as people managers. So what are some of your big like tenants that you're going, hey, if I have everybody on hand, I know you have, what do you call it, premil? Pre-Mil. Yeah, so those kind of like meetings. How do you, how can we better manage people? Well, okay, let's start with premil,

because that's one of my favorite places to start. Yeah. And I'll frame what that is. So premil is the 30-minute meeting we have every day with our entire team right before we unlock the doors and go into service. And it's a meeting that most restaurants have, and yet it is one that is almost always wasted. And a wasted pre-mail that happens when, well, you spend the entire time talking about ideas that could easily be communicated via an email,

like operational concerns. Because that meeting, it's called a Daily Huddle, right, in other worlds, is, in my view, the greatest opportunity a leader has to actually step up and lead the people around them. So it's taken our daily huddle seriously. Taking it very seriously. For the regular mom and pop business,

a small business out there, when you have one, it's understanding daily huddles are a necessity. Do you require that it be every day, or is it... I mean, listen, I never, when I'm talking to people in other industries, I never want perfect to be the enemy of the good.

A cadence. that works. A cadence that works and the cadence should be more frequently than you're comfortable with. Oh, that's a good basis. Well, because most people, when they start doing this, they kind of start at somewhat the bare minimum. Yeah. And there is always time to do something if we decide it's an important enough thing to do. Got it.

I did 30 minutes a day before lunch and before dinner, so an hour a day, seven days a week. That is obviously not necessary. Right. But some number of minutes, and when you have your team circled, it's not just focusing on the what, but on the how and more importantly, the why. when as a leader,

we are walking through the world looking for things that inspire us so that we can bring them home and share them with our teams. Like, I've benefited from the popularity of TED Talks, and yet I think those are so successful because as human beings,

we crave inspiration. Yeah. And very few people in our lives have answered the call to actually step up and inspire us. So many companies have been so much, time focusing on training, which is important, obviously. And yet training absent inspiration is wholly insufficient because I don't care how much, how well you know how to do a job.

If you're not inspired to want to do it really well, you're never going to bring your most fully realized self to the table. I think a lot of leaders, even the ones that have that meaning, there's something about people that holds them back from bringing their most passionate itself to it. Because we've all been in the receiving end of this at some point. Passion is contagious. Someone steps up in front of you and speaks with every ounce of their being, why the work you are doing matters, how you can impact other people,

why taking it seriously is a virtuous approach to take, why there's fun to be had or connections to be made, whatever it is. I don't think a lot of people can fully understand that. I think communication with your team, people need to stop trying to be so cool and just be really, really, really excited because that bleeds into those around them. That's hard for some people.

I mean, I'm thinking of, like, you have the history of what you've created, empowered and gave autonomy to your team to say, hey, when you see those magical moments that we can create unreasonable hospitality, when you overhear that table talk about going sledding or wishing they had a, you call it dirty dog? Dirty water dog. You know, the hot dog, and you're like,

you know, how can we create these and cultivate these experiences with them? That is exciting because it's like you don't know every day is a new adventure of what could come up. And so that unexpected surprise. And I hear in my mind those people who, I don't know, they're a plumbing industry, or they're a fabrication shop, or they're a small accounting business, you know, of ways that they go, that sounds great, but I'm not in a restaurant. How can I possibly get excited about the fact that we do this and that and this?

when what I hear you saying is you're focusing on the wrong objective. What you need to be focusing on is what are ways that you can inspire yourselves to be excited about what you're doing. And if you're excited, other people are going to be excited. The people around you will be too. But here's the thing. It's not just a restaurant thing. I think there's nobility and service. And I'd say 9.9 out of 10 of the people that are listening to this are in the,

the service industry. They're in the business of serving other people. I am. I think about the world that you came from. Yeah. I would love to run a daily huddle in a law firm. You can do it for me, my man. But do you know what I mean?

So many people focus so much on the objective that they forget about the people they are there to serve and the anxiety and trepidation with which they're walking into that room. You are there to defend them. But you were also there to war. walk with them through an unbelievably scary experience. Yeah, absolutely.

And remembering that it is much more than pleading a case. Yeah. It's actually, like, defending a human being during some of their darkest moments. And if that is not noble, I don't know what is. But I'm saying I could do that about any industry. Oh, I'm sure. Because I genuinely believe everything matters.

It's just about how you look at your world and how you celebrate the impact you can make. Before we continue, I want to take a moment to talk to you about Our Place. I've got a question for you. When's the last time you've thought about what you're cooking with? In other words, the pan itself. Are you still using that pan from college? Well, let me tell you you can upgrade. We love at our house, in our kitchen, Our Place. They have this four-piece cookware set, where it's like two, they go always pans and two perfect pots. And they're awesome. Let me tell you why they're awesome. Because Saturday mornings is Dad Breakfast. And what I very

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our place.com slash Jefferson for up to 10% off code Jefferson. Now, let's keep going. I want to make sure we don't leave it though we feel like this. We button this up. So when it comes of communicating and people managing in teams. Yes. One is you need to have, take seriously the repeatable cadence of communication with your team. Does it need to be in person or can it be virtual, you think? I think it can be virtual. Okay.

It just needs, whatever it is, it has to be consistent. And it needs to be, you need to be prepared for it. Is there a certain way that you run the meeting in terms of we're going to talk about this, this, and this? Or is it just kind of top of mind? Well, so the way I always did it, I had notes that every single person on the team would be given a piece of paper. Oh, you give them a note.

Yeah. And the paper was kind of everything, all the stuff I needed to make sure they knew. Okay. Depending on the company and the industry, it's different, right? Like, health insurance enrollment begins on this day, this policy changed. This is a new system we're implementing.

Now they have all the information I needed to communicate literally in their hands. No one can ever say, I didn't give it to them. I didn't get the email. Yeah. I didn't check the portal or whatever. It's literally in their hands. If I have a few housekeeping notes, I'll say that at the top,

and then I will come in to that meeting prepared in the same way that I am now when I step up on a stage. Right. I'll say, all right, I want to tell you guys a story of something that happened to me last week. And I don't know, I'll tell the story. Anyone who's ever done public speaking knows stories make ideas stick. And then I'll talk about the lesson that I learned from it. And then we'll talk about it as a group.

How do you end it? I would always end with this. The way the meeting started would be, what's today? April 4th. Wednesday. Yeah. So I would always say, happy Wednesday. The entire group would say back in unison, happy Wednesday.

Just to start it. Yeah. And then at the very end, I would say, have a good service. And they'd all say back, have a good service. Okay. Just because I believe in rhythms and rituals. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there's a reason why people will,

say, turn the person next to you and say, you know, I believe in this. You know, whatever it is. When people say it together, there is a feeling of that unison. Well, and also, like, when you watch one of those locker room speeches at halftime in a movie and the team comes back and wins the day, let's go. It's so fired up because at the end, they put their hands in, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I would always say every day is the Super Bowl. Like, every day you walk into service, you need to take it seriously as the biggest game of your life. Otherwise, there's people you're serving. that might be the only time they ever come into the restaurant. So you better take it seriously for them.

Yeah. And there's something beautiful about team sports. And I think it's remarkable to me how many leaders played team sports in high school and college and yet don't take some of the lessons they learned from team sports into how they lead a team. I can see that. I more and more believe that managing people is a very particular skill. It is a skill that can be learned, but it does not. easily taught. Like it's not something that without kind of being plugged into a system where you

get shown how to do it. It's it can feel kind of like you're in a lost place. Like I hear you saying, okay, I have a, I have a way that I start. I have a way that I end. Whatever industry, you create it, how you want to create it. Say what you want to say. Yes. Be as goofy and as you and genuine as you want to be. Yeah. But there's some things that you're going to have to hit. And I love that you go, I'm giving you the information that I already know in black and white you've got to have to have. Two, I get to talk of what's on my heart and put it in a story. Because everybody's got stories because we all live. You can just say what you did yesterday.

But relate that to the point that you're wanting to hit home, whether it's something that is specific to a special moment or a way that they have created impact. Yes. And so I think even if a company were to pull up their latest Google review and read it to their team, Oh my gosh. Just to go, just as a reminder, that person you touched is this is how this is. And also, like, finding and seizing and talking about inspiration as a practice, it's a muscle that you strengthen. You don't need it right away.

Like, in the beginning, hey, I was listening to Jefferson's podcast yesterday and he said this, and it stuck with me. And I want to share with all of you. Tell me how you react to it. Right. Yeah, that's a great premeal. Because now you're actually flexing your brain. brain and when you think together and dream together and create together it brings people closer. The other thing I would always do, I worked Monday through Friday.

Very, very long days. We're still open on the weekends. Now, what's a long day? 9 a.m. to midnight. Okay, yeah, that's a long day. That would count for a long, long time. Right, sure. On Saturday, when you got the schedule, there would be a star next to one person every Saturday, which meant you're running pretty.

meal. Oh. And that gave them heads up because I do believe public speaking is a leadership skill. Yeah. And also, once you've delivered that speech and you know how hard it is to do it well, you're going to be one of the most attentive people next time you're on the receiving end of it. And so the more you can push people outside of their comfort zone and have them actually lead, the more ready they are to become leaders when their days arrive. I love that. So actually changing who gets to lead it, like whoever is doing it and you're doing it. And you're going to, you're getting to change every single time, man, I think that's a great idea for people to have

for every team meeting that they have. Somebody else run it. Yeah. Because then you all share in both the privilege and the horror and the anxiety of leading. And then it doesn't go, oh, great, okay, we got Greg again reading, you know, leading meeting here. It's, oh, okay, it's Lisa's turn.

Oh, it's a different, At the Vair, you know, it's always changed. And then also there's always that quiet person on the team. Yeah. And sometimes they will stand up in front of the team and just stun people. Knock their socks off. And then the confidence, like, anyone you've ever seen that steps up on stage for the first time. Yeah.

And celebrated for the work they did, it changes their confidence level. Yeah. And that confidence spills over into everything they do. Right. I think that's sometimes the beauty of like inside jokes. Yeah. You know, because. it's something that we share.

Yes. And because we can kind of riff off each other and have that level of bond, like if it's two people, whether it's, you know, they're working on, it was the cold line or whatever, and they're like trying to, you know, you got to mean? And are they prepping for the day, like, just to have that sense of, you have to find ways to make the mundane fun. Yes.

And sometimes that, to me, is the same thing we do in conversation. Like we have an insane conversation. My joke makes you feel like an insider. Yeah. And that's what we all want. We all want to feel like we're a part of something. And the fewer people that are part of it, the more special it feels to be a part of it.

Right. Like that's why I love creating words within an organization. Like D.A. Or isms, like charitable assumption. Or we used to have all these little, like if you, say, if I still had a restaurant, now we've become friends. Yeah. You come into the restaurant. I'm not there. I'm just going to send a text.

Jefferson Fisher dash table 42 dash crush him. Yeah. And what that means, everyone on my team would know what that means, which means like there's 17 different things we can do to elevate someone's experience, do as many of them as feels natural to what he's doing there tonight.

Crush him. Crush him. I love that. If I were to say that to someone else, they wouldn't even know what I was talking about, but to my team, it's clear. They said that right there is going to have to be a special experience

for whoever is there that and I. at the table. Or another one, this actually feels like it fits into your work. DBC. Okay. Was another one of our isms.

Listen, no matter what you do, restaurants are an extreme version of this high-paced, you know, chaotic environments. It was mad. Yeah.

People can get into the weeds. And when you get into the weeds and you start to get overwhelmed, that's when you start making mistakes. Yeah. And that's when you need someone on your team to tell you to chill out or calm down.

And yet, have you ever told someone who was overwhelmed to chill out or calm down and had it achieve the desired effect? Never. Never. So, DBC, one of my best friends, his name is Andrew Tepper. He and I went to preschool together.

He's still one of my best friends. He got a graduate degree in social work, and he does a lot of amazing work with kids. He was working at a psychiatric hospital. There's a lot of kids there, and he felt like the therapists were just over-prescribing sedatives when kids were having difficult times. So he went to his parents' basement where they still had silk screening equipment from when he was a kid,

and he designed these really cool t-shirts that just said in block letters, D, B, C, which meant the deep breathing club. And he wore one of them to the hospital, and all the kids were like, dude, that's such a cool t-shirt. he goes, do you want one? And they're like, yeah, he goes, here's how you get one. Here's how you get one. And all they had to do is overcome a potential meltdown three times in a row through deep breathing

and deep breathing alone. Okay. Six months later, half of the kids in the hospital were wearing DBC shirts and the amount of sedatives being prescribed had dropped dramatically. Deep breathing club. I brought him to the restaurant.

I had him lead pre-meal a bunch of times over the course of a month. And I said to the team, I was like, guys, sometimes people people here lose, they're cool. They need to be told to calm down. They need to be told to chill out. And yet, we all know that never feels good.

So we're just replacing the words. Now it's DBC. I love it. And so literally, every night, someone would just walk over to someone else and just whispered in their ears like, hey, DBC, I got you. What can I do? I love that.

And the simple change. Yeah. Yeah, but also having somebody come alongside you and be like, hey, I got you. I got your back. I've been there. because when you're back a house and you have that chef or the person, and then there's like, it's just like the bear, right?

It's like you have people yelling and like, and you realize in that moment they're just stressed out. Yeah. It's not who they are. And their energy is impacting you negatively as opposed to your energy impacting them positively. Exactly. You know, you worry about this. I'll worry about and it gets into that.

I want to know a little bit. So you co-produce effects the bear. Yes. Which is just the wildest thing. Again, I'm not very often a jealous guy, but the creativity projects that you're in, I'm like, God, that's so cool. All right.

So first I want to know, you know, how do you get involved in this project and then how did you make sure that what is on film, I know there's other writers and a whole cast of amazing people that are helping bring this to life, make sure that it reflects exactly kind of what was going on and what you've seen in your whole experience

and a live in Madison Park and everything else. Well, so I got, I was not involved with the bear from day one. Right. I got to know Chris Storer, who's the creator of the bear. Awesome, awesome guy. That's cool. Unbelievably creative. And by the way, one of the most remarkable leaders,

like the way that every single person, regardless of position on that show, is treated and how they all feel such a genuine sense of ownership and the product as a whole. And I want to share one thing they did in a moment to reinforce that. But they did the first season. All of a sudden, it's a hit.

At this point, I'd gotten to know him a little bit. And he came to the release party for unreasonable hospitality, like the dinner that I had when the book first came out. Then season two is about like three months from coming out, and he emails me, and they were doing all the editing in Brooklyn. He's like, hey, can you come out to our offices

at some point? in the next couple of weeks, I want to show you something. I was like, yeah. So I go out and they show me episode seven of season two. It's called Forks. And the entire episode is effectively right out of my book. Okay. And it's this beautiful episode, literally lines of text.

There's things in the script that are verbatim what was in the book. And this whole story, my book has a famous story about a hot dog, and it's reimagined as a deep dish pizza in the episode. Yeah, I want you to tell them, Tell them real quick to the hot talk story. Yes, they need to hear it. It's too good. So the hot talk story, it's one of the stickiest out of the book.

And by the way, it's an example of why stories make ideas stick. Yeah. That happened with me in the restaurant as we were really trying to figure out what unreasonable hospitality meant. I'd written it down because I knew there was something. something in that approach, but didn't yet understand how it would be brought to life. I mean, you wrote the words down. I wrote the words down.

I want to be unreasonable in pursuit of hospitality. Great. And you have, and you're managing 11, Madison Park at the time. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Which for anybody who doesn't know is just the most amazing restaurant. And it was already, like at that point, we had three Michelin stars, we had all the stars, but I wanted to be the best. That's mind-blowing.

That was, thank you. That's mind-blowing. And what? You were like top 20? something like that. Well, I wrote those words down when we came in 50th

that's right. Of the 50 best. Yeah, okay. Which is still, but that's just not how I'm like, in that room I was last place. Okay, yeah. Anyway, one day I'm in the dining room

on a busier than normal lunch service. The team is in the weeds. And so I was doing what I would always do when I was helping out the team. I was just clearing dirty plates. Mostly because my dad, one of the lessons he taught me when I was coming up,

he goes, hey, the further up in the hierarchy you find yourself when you choose to help, just do the most menial thing as often as you can because it's a great way to communicate to your team that you're never going to ask them to do something you are either unwilling or incapable of doing yourself.

It's a great way to show your fire as a leader. I love that. So meaning the higher up you go in the hierarchy, if it is as simple as gathering up a trash can and rolling up and tying up the bag. Just do it. Like, you need to show the signal that you're not above anything.

Yeah. Yeah. And you can also do it. Exactly. You're not going to ask them to do anything. Yeah, like, hey, I'm not above it. And I can actually do it pretty well. Yeah.

As I was clearing appetizers, and it was this table of four, they were foodies, like Europeans on vacation to New York, but just to eat at restaurants. Okay. And this was their last meal. They were headed straight to the airport from the restaurant to go back home. Okay. And while I was there, I ever heard them talking, and they were just raving about their trip. They'd been to all the fancy French four-star restaurants and now 11 Madison.

But then one woman at the table jumped in and she said, yeah, but we never got to have a New York City hot dog. And it was just one of those light bulb moments from a cartoon. I went into the kitchen, dropped off the plates, ran outside of the hot dog cart, bought a hot dog, ran back inside. Then came the hard part, convincing my fancy chef to actually serve it

in our fancy restaurant. But I asked him to trust me, even more so I told him it was important to me. Yeah. That is another articulation we'd use a lot. This is important to me. I want to make sure I set that aside. That is a big deal.

Like even in relationships, this is important to me. Saying those words is a different higher caliber of communication. Yeah, and so we can come back to that in a little bit. And eventually he cut the hot dog up into four perfect pieces, put one on each of the plates, out of a little swish of ketchup, one of mustard, a little scoop of sourcrow, one of very, relish, topped it off of the microerb to make it look fancy enough. And then before their final

savory course, which at the time was our honey lavender glazed Muscovy duck that had been dry age for two weeks. As one eats. As one eats for lunch on a Wednesday. I had one yesterday. I brought out what we in New York call a dirty water dog. And I explained. I said, hey, I ever heard you talking. I didn't want you to go home with any regrets. Here's that New York City hot dog. And dude, they freaked out. Did they just lose it? I mean, at that point, I had served really fancy food, tens of millions of dollars worth of it at some of the best restaurants in the country.

I had never seen anyone react to anything I'd served them. You served like the highest quality of beef, seafood, the top of the top of the top. And here you give a New York, just off the street, a hot dog, and he just loses his mother. And, you know, and it's in those moments, in so many businesses, every single day, someone does something spontaneously that is brilliant.

That's not what defines the company, though. What defines them is if they identify that something great just happened and they slow down for long enough to figure out why it just happened so they can put intention to the intuition. Yeah. And it was a few simple things. It required being present. I wasn't...

Yeah. I wasn't looking at what I needed to do next. I was just so fully focused on that table that I stopped caring about everything else. And that's why I was able to pick up on the line. Second, it required, yeah, obviously we took what we did seriously. But as a rule, I've never taken myself that seriously. And I think far too many people in life or companies in business

we're so focused on perfecting brands that we are not focused enough on just pursuing people. We end up with these self-imposed standards that effectively disrupt our ability to give other people joy. A hot dog is not on brand in a four-star restaurant. But who cares when you look at how it made them feel?

Right. And then third, this idea that hospitality is just making other people feel seen. And the best way to do it is not to treat people like a commodity. One size fits all will only ever take you so far. It's the same reason why

at Christmas, I don't buy everyone in my family the same present. I buy people individual presents based on who they are. I imagine buying your wife's the same present you did last year. Honestly, I looked at your facial expression before and it really seemed like it worked.

Thought I get it for you again. But in unreasonable hospitality, one size fits one. One size fits one. And so those three things, be present, stop taking yourself so, seriously one size fits one, and that hot dog changed everything for us. And what you do so well in the book, and the book is full of these examples where you go,

you could have just heard the conversation and go, ah, it kind of blows for that guy, didn't get a hot dog, okay, next table. Instead, you said, what if, right, and built off that. And then you hired somebody specifically for creating these magical moments. Someone there is a resource to help everyone create them. Yeah. Because I think what's important is everyone on the team needs to be empowered to come up with these ideas. You just need to make it easy for them to deploy those ideas.

They have them. Yeah. And by the way, I mean, it happens to us all the time in life. How many times have you seen something or thought like, man, that would be really cool to do for this person. Gosh, I'm too busy. Yeah. And we hired a person onto the team just so all you had to do is say, hey, Emily, can you do this? and she would make it happen.

I'd say my habit is, I'll say, once this is done, then I will. Like, it's easy to go. This is just a really crazy week, but after this I'll be able to get to that. And it's funny how there's always another. Do you know, I was in a, I did a talk,

and in the meet and greet afterwards, a guy came up, he's like, you know, we have this expression to my family and your speech really made me think of it. Never let a gracious impulse pass. And gosh, I love that. That's some good stuff. Because how many times do you have them?

And when you have them, the whole idea is just do it. And I was literally at the Goodwill that weekend with my kids. We call it the treasure store. The treasure store. It's pretty apt, too. And basically every so often, we call it Treasure Store Day. Yeah. We have to go up into the room and we take 10 things and we go give them to the Goodwill.

and then they can buy one thing from the Goodwell. Yeah. And Andrew, the guy, the DBC guy, when we were growing up, he loved the band Sublime. And he would literally like busts on the streets playing Sublime songs. And we're in the treasure store, and I see a Sublime T-shirt in his size, as we're like an old-school Sublime T-shirt.

And I'd just heard this guy say, never let a gracious impulse pass. If I'm being honest, A version of me would have seen that and been like, man, Andy would like that. And I got to buy it. And then I got to put it in a box and go to the thing. And I would have just walked right past it. But this and I was like, no, I had a gracious impulse.

I can't let it pass. I took off the thing and sent it to him. And he was like, dude, that was the coolest gift. And that awesome. It took all of 15 minutes and probably $2. Just to have that. But just do it. And they have a gracious impulse.

Do it. So recognizing those gracious impulses, not just in, relationship, but also in your own business of the way that you can. Business and life, yeah. I think when you, again, in the book, to me, it's like, if you ever wonder which one's wills in the store, just look for the brightest yellow one. That's the one, dude. That's the one to get.

You need to go get it. It's like an every airport. Yeah, just whatever. By the way, have you, I would assume you love this. I would assume you know him. I don't know him, maybe one day, of the guy who started the Savannah bananas. Oh, yeah, Jesse Cole. Yes.

Okay, also yellow. He is amazing, by the way. But I'm like, that's like right up. You're kind of, he spoke up. Did he? Oh. Okay, well, then there you go. And I see a lot of like parallels with just.

And their work is very, very similar to ours. Just three Michelin Star restaurant and a minor league baseball team and how they kind of came closer to one another. Yeah, and I think that's just one of the many examples in which any business, I think, can do this. And I know y'all train a lot of these businesses where you go out, a lot of service industry folks of how can you, because they need a little bit of help.

They need a little bit of push. They'd be like, we just need to get some of that unraised. Just get a little bit of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It reminds me of my dad and I love a brother we're out, though, because it's just so quotable. Yeah. And he goes,

we need to get some of that reform. And so it's like, because he's the other guys is a reform candidate. And they're like, maybe we need to get us a little reform. So that's, you know,

sometimes you just, you need that push because sometimes you need somebody on the outside. For sure. Well, it's just easier you see things with fresh eyes.

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And they're like, is this cool? Effectively, they asked me to go out there to say, is this cool that we used a lot of stuff from your book? And I was like, well, yeah, obviously, it's cool. It's beyond cool. I'm so flattered. This is amazing. Yeah. Like, my book is now in one of the hottest television shows in America.

Yeah. And that's when they were going from the little beef stand and they were about to open a proper restaurant. And in the same meeting, they're like, also, can you join the team and be a writer and a producer as we move into this next season? I was like, well, heck, yeah. You know those moments where, I'm like, I don't know

how much you're paying me, I don't care. Am I alive? The answer is yes. Yeah. Am I awake? And, man, it is so fun. Your question was, how did I ensure that things were actually real?

Yeah. and it's television, so it's all dramatized a little bit. But it's, I mean, it's about as close as it can get to what it really is. And I think it circles back to the culture on that show. Like, I mean, some of the actors on that show are now... Phenomenal. Not only phenomenal, but also really famous. Yeah, that too.

Right, and when people get really famous, oftentimes they stop being as good at listening or they don't necessarily feel the need to learn as much no one on that cast is like that. I mean, there was one episode one of season three, Karmie, the chef, picks up a tray to bus a table in the morning. And I was like,

are you cool if I'd show you, you the right way to do that and he's like yes please something that simple yeah he just wanted to know what right looked like because if you've been in the restaurant business like he like his character had been you would know the right the right way to do it or how to expo like i did expo classes or um i mean the most fun thing is like basically got to design a restaurant and never have to run it you know like the plates and the florals and yeah there's all these stories within the story that most people would never even know this, but. But, I mean, how cool is that?

You just get to kind of live in that, that creativity. So I want to make sure that I, I don't, you don't leave without me asking some of these. I mean, I know I could text you, but this is too good. Of when you're thinking, you know, the hot dog moment, and all the other stuff in your book, I love the one with the sled of like all these others, is what made the difference is,

you led and empowered your team by example to listen. Yes. None of that happens without having the specific and right ear for it. Yeah. Because you're not listening to the conversation. You're listening to the need. Yes. That is almost unspoken.

Yeah. And so it's not like the guy said, man, you know what would be great if somebody brought me a hot dog? You know what I mean? He didn't say that. He just, and so you, heard the need that wasn't even exactly spoken. And I feel like in conversation and in teams, and especially with customers, clients, you're having to have the right, to train your ear

for the right kind of needs. And so I don't, how did you do that? What did you teach them to listen for anything? Well, yeah, by the way, I mean, you know this better than anyone. You're listening, not just with your ears. Right? Like, I think I have found that you can teach people how to do something. And you can be like, hey, if someone says this, like, just go back in the conversation before you even arrived there. Like, where did that thing come from? You might not have heard it, but, and where could it go next?

The sledding. Someone says, our kids have never seen snow before. Yeah. Okay, so where does that go next? What could it be? What could it be? Like, I think the best experiences are when you dream of the world you wish existed, and then you invite someone else into your imagination.

That's a good one. So, like, all right, they've never seen snow. These are kids. What do kids love doing in the snow? Sledding. Oh, my gosh. Let's go buy them sleds right now. Yeah.

These spontaneous moments. But then even the things that you don't hear. I mean, the stories that get celebrated the most of the book are the more over the top ones. But, like, you can tell when someone's on a first date, right, the moment you go over and greet them at the table. It's pretty clear when you've done it long enough. And you can tell without having to be at the table

whether the first date is going really well or whether they're just struggling to find their groove. You can tell when people are talking to one another a ton or when there's just a bit of awkward silence. Okay, so unreasonable hospitality. It doesn't mean having to buy a hot dog. It could mean, gosh, this guy's having a hard time getting a conversation going,

I'm going to go hang out with them at the table for a little bit. Okay. And I'm just going to start talking to them, and I'm going to try to get them laughing, and I'm going to try to get them each to put their guards down, and then I'm going to leave, and hopefully I've gotten them up to enough of momentum. Okay, I love this.

Okay, I love this. So that's, what's this is, my brain's going, is it's not just listening with your ears, it's also listening with your eyes. Yeah. Whereas every time with a customer or a coworker or somebody coming into your restaurant or somebody you're in a relationship with,

it's listening with your eyes, how are they reacting? And so you have the privilege in a restaurant when you see some of the most intimate moments, you go, this date's not going well, or somebody is fighting, you can tell it's tense and they're having a hard thing. time in their marriage maybe or two guys who are talking about a business deal or something and just for that brief moment the the staff is able to kind of the waiter the waitress are able to

kind of be able to curate something to say let me listen with my eyes here what else is read the room sometimes like um based on what's happening over there maybe i should just stay away yeah that too like they're having a really good come how many times you went halfway through a story a restaurant and someone comes over and says, how's it going? And you're like, can you just leave me alone right now? Like, you just ruin the punchline. Yeah.

The worst is like when you're in serious conversation and some cheery young guy comes in. You're having like a fight with your wife at the table. You're like, man, can you not see that like, we're hanging on by a thread right here? We're barely holding on. No, we just don't, I don't need a refo. You're good.

Yeah. There's those moments too, but it's like when you can also listen, like listen with your eyes and see the reactions of other people. And how does that translate to when you see that person who is running five minutes late and they look frantic or they look hurt or there's things going on. You can tell beneath that surface. It's not just going, well, you didn't say anything, but you saw it. I mean, it's the same thing in life, though. Like how many times you invite people over to your place and. If you actually just take a moment in tension

and just look at everyone in the room, you can pretty quickly tell the person that just feels awkward. Maybe they just don't know anyone and they're not good at starting a conversation when something they feel out of place. It is so easy to just be the person, never let a gracious impulse pass,

that walks around and says, hey, Joe, come here. I want to introduce you to Jefferson. Yeah. You guys both play the drums. Right. that's unreasonable hospitality but you just

cared enough to identify what needed to be done and then to do something with what you saw yeah and like I'm just saying it exists everywhere it's just

by the way it's so cool when you get to do that for other people so why not just do it all the time yeah well why not

why don't just do it every day I mean it yeah why don't you do it all the time I truly think the world would be just so much more fun and I think when you can find ways

to be more spontaneous, more creative. You know, like, what I would often try and do is just have conversations in the most random places. Just to, like, just switch it up, even if it's at like an ice cream shop. Like, just, you know, like, when I first was starting my, the new law firm, that's what I did. I would try and have a conversation with the client. I was like, you don't want to go sit in my office. Let's go.

Yeah. Let's go sit somewhere at this. I know a lot of people do a coffee shop or like I would do a park. Or just because let me show you that if I can at least bring a little bit of... A hundred percent. You know why I like this park?

This park reminds me this time I was with my dad and I did this. And just to be able to share a little bit of that context and story is enough for them to trust you more than any degree they'd see on the wall in your office. Well, and also, you just said something that makes me think of two things. One, I don't mean to talk about Andrew this much,

but he's a therapist now, and he doesn't do therapists in an office. He lives in the Hudson Valley, and there's two ways to see him. You can either go on a hike with him, or you can go skiing with him. Skiing? Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. How do you... On the lift. Oh, on the lift. And that's awesome. I'm terrified of ski lifts, but... So then go, you do the hike. I'll do the hike.

I'll do the hike. Or you do cross-country. Yeah. But also what you're doing, you're bringing the new park, you're changing the environment. I think a lot of communication is, I mean, for me, communication is about connection. Yeah. And connection happens when people let their guards down. And part of that is earning informality and just changing an environment into a less formal environment is a way to fast-track the idea of earning informality.

But the other thing you do in offering. the thing about you and your dad and why you love that part is you're offering up a piece of yourself which is an invitation to them to do the same in return. We did this thing. I went to a restaurant in New York and on the menu it said

don't tell us if you're allergic to anything we don't make substitutions in the food. I was like, okay, this is unreasonable but not unreasonably hospitable. Yeah, that's a bad kind. That almost sounds illegal. Yeah, like it's just rude. It's like...

Yeah. And so I went back to the... the restaurant, I was like, I want to go, I want to run hard in the opposite direction of that. Obviously, we asked about allergies. Yeah. But this is a tasting menu. Certain people don't like certain things. So I was like, I want to spend the next month coming up with endless permutations of everything we serve.

So that at the beginning of the meal, we can say, are you allergic to anything? Also, is there just anything you don't like or anything you're not in the mood to eat tonight? Let us know, and we'll make sure you don't see it. That's a great one. But here's the thing. We started it. By the way, it took a long time, and it was expensive. It took a long time for what?

To redesign an entire menu. Oh. Because if you have chicken that served with mushrooms, and someone doesn't like mushrooms, it's not a good experience just to remove the mushrooms. So now you have to have an entirely different chicken dish to serve them. Yeah, yeah. But it was important to me.

And so we did all this work, and then we started at day one. No one told us a single thing they didn't like. Like, day two, no one told us a single thing they didn't. So now we're just throwing away food that we were prepping. And I was like, what is going on? And so I took a station, meaning I was a waiter on day three or four. Because sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to actually just get in there yourself. And again, first table, second table, third table, no one's telling me anything.

And I was like, I wonder if it's this. Which is, this was like Anthony Bourdain had his show. And there are all these shows about people traveling around. around the world, eating weird stuff. I was like, maybe people just don't think it's cool to not like stuff. Oh. So they're embarrassed.

My son's really cool. It's just straight butter noodles, man. I can barely get them to eat anything. By the way, that's a real experience for most of us right now. For sure. But that's what you go. Maybe they don't feel comfortable. Well, so the next table, whenever I said,

is there anything at all you don't like? And they're like, no. And I was like, can I tell you you something? I really don't like oysters. And I really don't like sea urchin. I was like, you didn't ask, I just felt the need to share. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, you know what?

I actually don't like beats. And I don't like, whatever they said. Yeah. And all I needed to do was tell them something I didn't like. Right. And then they were like, oh, wait, this is a safe space to talk about not liking stuff. I'm not saying that not liking oysters is a display of profound vulnerability. Right, right.

But just opening up about something gave them permission to do the same in return. That's vulnerability. It's vulnerability. And that's, you gave, when you're saying, I like this park because of this, that guy's like, oh, we can actually connect on more of a human level. Right. All of a sudden, it has nothing to do about degree or experience. And it ends up that, I mean, that's just one element of many that they care about.

But see, a lot of people could have experience. 100%. It's all the different stuff that you can have of what's your personality. And I think that's awesome. And then by the way, that person shares something with you about their dad, and then you go and you win the case. And a week later, they get a little note from you acknowledging that about their dad. And maybe he said his dad was a big Dallas Cowboys fan.

And so you put on a little Dallas Cowboys baseball hat and you say, what a pleasure it was to work with you. Exactly. Just as a little bitty, like touch points. And they're going to remember that Dallas Cowboys hat more than they're going to remember the smart way that you are. their case in the courtroom. This Unreasonable

Hospitality Field Guide, I'm so jealous of it. I'm going to keep telling you that. One, it is... Thank you, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. Let me tell you why I love this thing.

I like your book, Unreasonable Hospitality. It's great. It really is. It's also having written a self-help nonfiction book, and this is, we're kind of in the same category. what makes this so different is one, it's kind of like, as soon as you get it,

it feels like it's a, I was in Cub Scouts. Yeah. And so it's very much a field guide like this. It's like, it kind of looks like I should be learning how to build a fire or like some, like certain types of, you know, overhand knots. But I can see, I wish I had had this when I had the restaurant

because one, it's super colorful. So you did a really good job of making it to where you want to read through it. The illustrations are really cool. Things change. It doesn't look like it's just ho-hum. And so the design of it is really cool. And that's probably just like my brand. I wanted so badly for a workbook about hospitality to itself be hospitable and not feel like work.

And so the designer is this guy named Don Clark who has literally worked with Pixar and NASA and Lego. And I convinced him to do this with me. I if if I I'm telling you if there's anybody that I could just Freaky Friday you know what I'm saying that just trade your life man that's that's what I would probably do like this one that I really really like okay uh that I had bookmarked so you have why is Joe struggling and this is like a decision tree yeah and so I thought oh my gosh how many Joe's do we know of like somebody on my team is struggling yeah something and then you have this tree of Joe struggling because he doesn't care and he's not trying.

Like, that's rarely the case. Yeah. But it's so easy to think they just don't care. Yeah. In relationship, it's easy to first thing to say is, well, you just don't care. You just don't care. And that's never the truth. Well, rarely, if ever.

Joe is trying to still not succeeding. You have all these, like, different ways of, if it is true that he's struggling because he doesn't care, fire Joe as fast as you possibly can. Yeah. Get him out. If that's actually the reason, just fire him. But is, Joe is trying but not successful. succeeding. Yes. Then it's all these like is a training is it too much too fast is something else going on. It's like listening with your eyes kind of thing and

I when I first looked at this I was like this is so cool. Do you know if they're in the right role? It talks it all about on specifically what you had mentioned a minute ago of your rules for criticism. You know, how do you have these teams together a lot of the things that you and I covered? And so when I look at this, one, I'm super jealous of it. Number two is you're going to help so many people with this thing. Oh, man, thank you. You really, really are. And it's not at all for just restaurants. No.

And here I am sitting with somebody who was part of the number one restaurant in the entire world. I've never been. One day, I'm going to go. I've never been. One day. I mean, it's different. But you've got to go just to this experience a little bit. I mean, I love, I am a foodie.

I just have kids. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like there's only so many places. Like we can go when we have kids because it's usually, okay, where's a, let me go an Italian place because I know they have noodles and a pizza place. I took my kids to In and Out Burger here. And I was like, all right, this is great. I love In and Out Burger.

My kids are going to love In and Out Burger. Like, this can be the connective tissue in our culinary relationship. And we got there and my three-year-old's like, can we got a McDonald's? Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. I was like, guys, why? Right.

Why are you doing this? So my, back in our small town, hometown, right in front of the Walmart is a Chili's. And so, you know, how you grew up thinking certain places, mine was Olive Garden. I thought it was like the fanciest of the fancies. And so my, we were in the car and the Uber. and we're trying to find a place

and my son was like, I got an idea. Y'all want to go? Chili? He was like, that's like, that's like the top of the line. And we're like, well, if we see one, and so now if my daughter just raised as she sees a Chili, she's like,

so that's just kind of become like also the McDonald's. But that's awesome, though. It really is. We love it. We love it. I want to, this is why I also am really cool about these. And it's really cool when you come across somebody's work and it makes you go like,

I really want to just redo everything I've ever done. You know, like you just kind of get that inspiration and things. So it's like this. This is just, I'm reading in the middle of something. It just goes, go back to your mission statement. What three strategies could you focus on right now? And then it just like has all the spaces for it. And then it goes right into what might a strategic planning meeting look like for you?

And just like you, it's banger after banger of who's, going to be in charge of it how you're going to do there where you gather like the the way that you have you talk about pray circles what how do you celebrate top performers um i'm going to use this myself it's just super super cool um and i can this is the kind of stuff like a nerd out about secretly i just like this is so cool so i think i think we're the same when i i recorded my audio book for the first book yeah and then you remember doing this right you record it all and then then you go away. Yeah.

And like a month later, you have to go back to do pickups. Yes. And the credits. Yeah, yeah. In the month between recording it and doing pickups and the credits, I listened to Green Lights, McConnell, his book, on audio. I haven't listened on audio. Dude.

It's just a masterful audiobook performance. And I listened to that. I was like, gosh. I wish I'd listen to this before I recorded my audiobook. And so I went and did the pickups. And he just does so many creative things and how he delivers the material. I was like, I got to do something. And meanwhile, I had already started the practice of collecting observations when I was

writing the book, and I didn't want it to stop. And so on my phone, there was just a bunch of new things that I'd observations, ideas, insights, and the book was done. So we get to the end of doing all the pickups and the credits. And I said to the producer, I was like, hey, keep rolling. I want to add something after the credits. And he's like, well, you're not allowed to do that. And I was like, just keep rolling.

And so I said, hey, to whoever makes the decision about whether or not there's allowed to be bonus material after the credits, this is important to me. And if you've read the book, you know what that means. My cell phone number is this. Call me if you want to have a conversation about it. And I just did this whole Easter egg. Yeah. And basically I was like, hey, you still there? Yeah.

Me too. Yeah. And did this whole like Easter egg at the end of the audiobook. And it was just inspired by listening to someone else's work. Right. Being jealous, wishing I could do it all over again and saying, well, I can't. but I can at least do this. But that comes too from, like, what's the takeaway is expose yourself to creativity.

Like expose yourself to, there's some people who go, you know, there's the downside of reading too many self-help and whatever. And I agree, you can have too much if you're not acting on it, but you have to expose yourself to different mediums, different, like, there's a reason why the color world has a spectrum, like that you have to have spectrum. 100% and diversity in your life like there would even in investments like you don't want to just go with one thing

like it's yeah you always have exactly and so it's the same thing of how do you you hear that from Matthew McConaughey yeah and you go you know what

I'm gonna add a little bit of spectrum yeah and so and that tends into something else and then you have because you've written this book here you are

doing stuff with the bear you're like designing a stadium you're doing like we're doing lots of fun stuff I'm telling you and your wife's amazing.

So you're just getting to do this thing. I mean, you too. The two of us were in a room yesterday with a bunch of really successful authors learning from other people. And gosh, I am pretty intent on never getting to a

place where I don't pinch myself and I find myself in these rooms because I'm just filled with gratitude for the experiences that I get to have and for the people I get to meet. Same. Same. Same. The fact of just how we even kind of came into play is crazy.

But that has to do a lot with opening yourself to a lot of different colors in the spectrum. So, man, thank you so much for sitting and talking with me. This thing, the field guide and reasonable hospitality field guide, you got to get it. When does it come out? It's April 28th. It's going to be a killer, man. As soon as I got it, I was like, doggone it. This is so good for anybody wanting to add strategic planning to their teams and how to do it differently.

It's just a step-by-step roadmap to elevating the magic and what you do with your business. I can't recommend it enough. Thanks, man, for sitting with me. Thanks, brother. All right, brother.