The Joe Rogan Experience - #1051 - Duncan Trussell & Christopher Ryan

Episode Date: December 12, 2017

Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, and host of his own podcast "The Duncan Trussell Family Hour" available on Spotify. Christopher Ryan, Ph.D. is a psychologist, speaker, and author of New York Times best seller Sex At Dawn, and also host of his own podcast "Tangentially Speaking" available on Spotify.

Live with that. Goodbye, Yellow Brick Road. Yeah, that's some good song. Oh, yeah, dude The bitch is back. Oh and we're live ladies and gentlemen shrimp parade powerful Duncan Trussell's in the house I'm back. Dr. Chris Ryan looking like you're fresh off of vacation. Like we just pulled you Pulled you out of someone's sailboat. I was on a fishing trip Perfect, right? Yeah Endless vacation. We were about uh elton john right before we started and i i think there's some elton john songs that are just all-time classics you know yeah what are your favorites top three boy um man do you like daniel that's the best

daniel's a great song rocket man is one of my favorites. Rocket Man's great. Rocket Man's so good. What do you think that's about? I don't know. I never thought about that. Let me go over the lyrics. You know, that's one of those songs you just, the lyrics almost become inconsequential because the lyrics are, oh, this is the sound that song makes. I remember that song.

That song has this feeling. It's like listening to a song in a different language. Right. Right. Almost. The voice is just an instrument. Yeah. Almost. It's weird when you find out what a different language. Right, right. Almost. The voice is just an instrument.

It's weird when you find out what a song's about and it's the opposite. Oh, what? Does it say what it is? No, this is just the lyrics. Yeah, it's about an astronaut. They're annotated lyrics. I don't think it is.

I think it's about like... Snorting ketamine. Is that what it is? It's about... I think it's about like getting blasted. I miss my wife. I miss the earth so much.

Yeah. Are you just guessing, Duncan? Well, I mean, we all get to interpret music in our own way, but for sure, that's Elton John. He's in some hotel room. He's laid out some lines at Ketamine. Look at what it says here. It says, during the drug era, given that it was penned during the 1970s drug era, people can still see that it serves as an extended metaphor comparing fame to space travel.

Wow. That makes, that makes a ton of sense. But it also, I bet it also was about rocket travel. Because Bernie Taupin wrote it, right?

Yeah. He wrote it. He wrote them on. Yeah. What a great combination the two of those guys. It's like you and Young Jamie.

Very similar. Nobody ever hears about Young Jamie. Last time I was here, I tried to get him on my podcast. He's eluding me. Yeah. Very similar. Nobody ever hears about Young Jamie. Last time I was here, I tried to get him on my podcast. He's eluding me. Yeah. Really? He's smart.

I remember that. Sorry. Doesn't want to be on your crazy podcast out in the woods. Come in the van, Jamie. There you go. We'll record it in the van. Saturday night, that's a great one. All right for fighting.

Yeah, that's a great one. for fighting yeah that's a great one that's a great workout song that's a real kind of like treadmill yeah it's like a punk British yeah Saturday night

Daniel's the first time I really thought about Spain it's about Daniel my brother he's heading out on a plane I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain

that's about his friend dying for sure he's blind no it's about his blind brother, for sure. He's blind, no. It's about his blind brother, I believe. I'm misinterpreting all these Elton John songs. You must have that experience a lot.

I like him less. I don't like what his songs are about. Well, you know what's interesting about this conversation is trying to interpret what songs are is the very actual thing that happened when people were trying to interpret the stories from the Bible. But it's basically the same thing. We're trying to figure out, no, he meant this. No, he meant that.

These parables and some of the stories that are in the Bible. Yeah. You know, if you go to the John Marco Allegro definition, what does it say? A song was written from his younger brother's perspective. A story about a guy who went back to a small town in Texas returning from the Vietnam War. Wow. Okay.

That's Daniel. And he was blind, right? Your eyes have died, but you see more than I. Oh, wow. Yeah. Do you still feel the pain of the scars that won't heal? Yeah, it's a beautiful song. Have you guys heard, you know that song Summer of 69?

Jamie, maybe you can bring this up. Yeah, the Bryan Adams one? And that's about, like, actually 69ing. Oh, really? Yeah, that's what I'm getting. Like, every single one of my interpretations is completely wrong. But look it up, because I think the Summer of 69, like, one interpretation is that's like a fuck summer.

Where he was, like, 69ing all summer is that is that true yes is it true ding ding had my first real six string uh brian adams fourth album reckless summer 69 in many meanings although one of them including life in 1969, while another includes making love with someone, hence using the number 69 as a reference. Boy, that's not accurate, the way they said that. This is like the internet interpretation, sorry. What I meant was, it's like, you would never say that. That wouldn't be how you convey your feelings. If you're writing that song, like the summer of 69, and this, hold on, go back to

that, please. It says, while another includes making love with someone. That is just, that's not an accurate way. I don't know, man. You're talking about 69ing. I mean, yeah, you're making love, but you're getting crazy. It's like, there's more to it than that. The same thing as trying to interpret stories from a Bible or something like that. you're boiling them down like you're trying to figure out what was this guy

actually saying yeah you know like literary interpretation yeah yeah it's all poetry right my favorite example of a song that sort of misleads you i mean i really like songs where the cover is better than the original because the person doing the cover gets what the song's about better than the original artist does. I mean, all along the Watchtower, Hendrix's version is way better than Dylan's, right? Dylan actually said that. But my favorite example in recent music is Hey Ya by Outkast. Oh, okay. You know, shake it like a Polaroid picture.

Hey ya, my baby don't mess around because she loves me so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real upbeat. Listen to the words. But does she really want to but can't stand to see me walk out the door? Don't try to stop the feeling because the thought alone is killing me right now. Thank God for mom and dad for sticking two together because we don't know how. It's all about how we don't know how to love each other.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. Hey, fellas, what's cooler than being cool? Ice cold. If what they say is nothing lasts forever, then what makes love the exception? Oh, why, oh, why are we so in denial when we know we're not happy here?

Wow. It's a really sad song. Super sad. Yeah. There's a dude who did a cover of it, Obadiah Parker. See, the thing that I really like about... He gets it. He gets the sadness of it.

Play some of that. I can't stand to see me walk out the door. I can't stand to fight the feeling because the thought alone is killing me right now Holy shit. It's depressing. This is really good. Thank God for mom and dad

For sticking two together Cause we don't know how Wow. And hey, yeah This is fucking great. Hey, yeah There's people right now screaming at their phone. This is fucking great. There's people right now screaming at their phone. You're retarded, Joe Rogan.

You don't know what great is. You fuck so fucking sick of your music tastes. It's so bad, bro. Your music tastes are so bad. I get more tweets about how bad my taste is in music and movies and television shows. Well, blame it on me. And that cut Chris Ryan. Yeah, I was looking at something the other hostility than someone like Duncan or me, because our audience is more sort of homogeneous, I would think.

I'm the bridge between the meatheads and the potheads. Exactly. So there's conflict no matter which way you go. There's a little, but the meatheads kind of get that. If you want to go the far end of the extreme, it's like the UFC fans. But the UFC fans know, know like i'm a i'm a representative like i'm doing my best like they know i'm 100 into this this is not like i'm not like some actor that they hired right to promote this so i but then you got all the way to the far left which is the psychedelic people and i got a ton of vegan followers and

people that are really into yoga and it's like all of them together it's like the weirdest fucking house party when you see them sometimes in the comments well no man this is like this ramdas retreat that I just went to one of the one of the people who run runs the retreat wanted me to tell to thank you because he's like you know your podcast brings a lot of people to these ramdas retreats which is to me it was such a strange thing to think man that you're like magnetizing people and and bringing them down a slippery slope where they land in maui hanging out with like buddhist and like hindu teachers it's really man. It's a very odd thing. How many tentacles you have.

Fucking Burning Man. Jesus Christ. Burning Man. Everybody wants you to go, man. You've got to go. You've got to go. When is it again? It's like Labor Day.

I think it's during elk hunting season. It's late August or early September. Listen, you can't bring some elks to Burning Man. I can't interact with that many people. I can't do that anymore. Those days are done. But you know what has changed? Like one of the biggest things that's ever changed because of this podcast?

The float industry. Yeah. Float industry has taken off. I get like residual gratitude from float places. I know you know Joe Rogan. You can float for free. Wow, that's amazing. Well, the thing is, it just didn't make any sense to me that before I was talking about it, no one was talking about it. This was something that was invented by Lilly in

what, 1960 something? The first one where you were vertical. You know, he had one where you would wear a helmet and you had a harness and the helmet would float you, you know, and then he figured out the salt thing. And, I mean, the fact that this was not a popular thing was blowing me away. Well, it was, but then it died because of the AIDS thing. Yeah, I don't think it was ever this popular. No, no, but it was much, it was higher, then it dropped a lot. The AIDS thing killed it because nobody knew how. And then you sort of brought it back in, yeah.

But with John Lilly, you know, what's interesting about him, people leave out about him a lot, is that he was talking to aliens. And it's an interesting thing that people just kind of push all that shit aside. They know him as the float guy, he invented float tanks. And the dolphin guy.

And the dolphin guy, but also they completely leave out that he was going into those tanks and claiming some kind of communication with something called the ECC or something, ECCO, you know about that? The Earth Coincidence Control Office or something, you know about that? Is that in the center of the cyclone? Yeah, center of the cyclone.

Yeah. But he was going way out talking about some kind of invisible, I guess, network that produces coincidences. I don't understand it at all. But people just completely leave that out, that the guy who created float tanks was using them to communicate with entities. And he was using a lot of ketamine. A lot of ketamine, yeah. Or maybe they're leaving out that the guy who invented float tanks lost his shit there toward the end.

Well, maybe, but I think that I don't know what's happening when you're doing psychedelics. But there are certain psychedelics where it absolutely feels like you're experiencing another life form communicating with you. For sure. For sure, right? Now, if that's the case with ketamine as well, ketamine seems to be, like me personally, my personal bias. Well, ketamine seems to be, like me personally, my personal bias. I sort of dismiss it because I think of it as some sort of chemical compound thing, some sort of a synthetic thing that man's created.

Like ketamine? Like what? It's some tranquilizer? So DMT is more reliable? But I think that's just my own ignorance. I think really we're just talking about chemicals, right, and how chemicals that exist in nature. Like when someone says it's an artificial chemical, well, that's not real because everything is natural. Everything's here.

Like it might have been concocted and put together and baked and cooked and synthesized by a person, but of course it's all natural. Everything that exists is a part of nature. Well, but isn't that semantics, though? It is and it isn't in that these chemicals most likely have some sort of a corresponding receptor in the human brain. Right?

Or something similar to the molecule. Yeah. Yeah. And it's some natural thing. Like, that's the craziest thing about the most potent drugs, whether it's psilocybin or whether it's dimethyltryptamine. They have, like, really similar composition to normal human neurochemistry. Right. They're like keys. Like, they're keys that fit a certain lock. That's how human neurochemistry. Right. They're like keys.

Like they're keys that fit a certain lock. That's how they put it. Yeah. But I do think that there is a distinction between natural and unnatural in the sense that something, because I get this argument all the time, right? Oh, people created it so it's natural. But there are things that exist in the natural system, like plastics don't exist in the natural ecosystem and therefore they don't exist in the natural ecosystem, and therefore,

they don't break down, they don't become part of the food chain in a beneficial way, whereas things that have existed in that system for a long time do, they fit into it. And I think in terms of drugs, there are drugs like GHB that exist naturally in the body that we metabolize absolutely cleanly, because the liver knows exactly what it is. It's prepared to deal with it and it doesn't cause any organic toxicity, no neurotoxicity. But then there are other things like alcohol, which are natural in a sense that fruits ferment and all that, but the body doesn't metabolize it cleanly. So it damages us.

In particular, if you're from a very specific part of the world, right, where it's a, if it's not a part of your custom, which is why it was such a giant issue when Europeans came here and started giving it, yeah, they didn't, they didn't have any history with alcohol. Well, you know, Hamilton Morris, the vice guy, he tweeted this thing I thought was pretty smart, probably a little controversial. Forgive me if I misquote it, but it's something on the lines of it's drugs. And that word is a controversial word somehow. People like to use the term plant medicine,

which is okay. You can call it plant medicine or you can call it whatever you want, but to create a hierarchy based on synthesis, I think is to sort of miss the point, which is that all of these things are tools and some of them we have more of a history with humanity and some of them we don't.

The ones we don't, which is, my God, there's so many new drugs that are just popping up all the time, different derivatives of LSD, things you can like right now, apparently you can order sheets of this stuff that is like LSD, but it's in the gray area. It's still kind of legal.

It's like a different version of LSD, but we don't know yet the effects it's going to have because it's not like anyone's really testing it out. Don't say the name because Jeff Sessions is listening. He's got one hand on his ear, mouth, other hand is running his dick down. Oh my God, another drug. You got to get rid of it. His little southern dick. That'd be scary if Jeff Sessions had a giant dick. What a nightmare.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but anyway, I think this— I was talking to a woman who had sex with a little person, and she said he had a normal-sized dick. They have big heads. So Jeff Sessions with a normal normal size dick would be interesting proportionally yeah i don't know i mean just scary to think about like that jeff sessions having like some kind of like because you know he's such a you know he's just such the quintessential pig you know and it's like you want the quintessential pig to have some kind of like to be almost like

a eunuch or something but it's terrifying to imagine that jeff sessions when he takes his clothes off probably has like six nipples you know just running right down the middle of his fucking chest glistening they ooze he gets wet when he's like arresting people. They ooze a little milky trail. Little goat knobs that he has to file down at night. Yeah, little goat knobs. He probably, yeah, he's got hoofs. He'd file. He visits private prisons. He visits private prisons and just

pulls out his massive throbbing cock in front of people who've been sentenced there for life. Look at it! Look at it! He squirts right on that screen that you put your hand on, Mr. Sessions. I was standing up for you. I just want you to know that. He's going after medical marijuana again. He's trying to.

It's almost like he can't help himself. He knows what the laws are, and it's almost like, I just want to grab him. Let me just grab him. Yeah, sure. Let me just grab him. I know what science says, but I've got my personal opinions on the thing, and that's what matters.

Yeah, just any time there's one person has authority over another person, and they've lived an entire life in that position. That's what matters. Yeah, just any time there's one person has authority over another person and they've lived an entire life in that position, that's their ecosystem. Their ecosystem is they have authority, they enforce laws, they lock people up, and it's the game. It's the game they play. And to be successful. Yeah, not just that. It's like there's an objective.

It's literally almost like a Monopoly game. You see what the thing is to arrest people. You're the guy who arrests people. You arrest people and convict people. That's your game. That's what you do. You're plugged into the machine. Do you know an interesting thing about Monopoly? It was invented by an anarchist who

invented it to teach kids the evils of capitalism. Wow. Really? Yeah. That's incredible. That's what goofy anarchists are. They did the exact opposite thing. It's like what they do today. It wasn Yeah. That's incredible. That's kind of how goofy anarchists are. They did the exact opposite thing. It's like what they do today. It wasn't supposed to be fun. It was supposed to demonstrate that when you accumulate capital, you end up taking it all. Right. You know? Yeah. Wait, what do you think anarchists are? Well, I think that anarchists are people

who want to diminish this system that we have, have far less rules, have far less government, right? And usually, they're kind of spastic, and the way they express themselves is always very awkward. Well, they're libertarians. Well, but you know, I've just been reading this book,

Anarcho-Syndicalism. It's like this god damn, it's really interesting to look at the history of anarchism, like what it comes from versus what it gets, because I remember when I was like in high school. Do you remember

drawing the fucking anarchy symbol and you'd be like, yeah, it means you just go, wow, man. It's like the power, man. You don't even know

what it meant. You're just assuming, but I think one part of it that's really beautiful is the idea that we don't need withered old prunes like Jeff Sessions telling us what we can put in our bodies. We don't need that. It's true.

And that how many Jeff Sessions are there in the power structure? And then where it gets really fucking cool, man, check out David Graber. You should have him on the podcast. My God, he's fucking brilliant what's he do he's an author and he um a philosopher I guess you could say but uh um he is incredible and he wrote a book called I think it's called the utopia of rules that I've been reading which is pretty fucking badass and uh it's just sort of breaking down like the bureaucracy that we're in right now. Bureaucracy, all the fucking forms you got to fill out to do just about anything these days.

Like all these fucking forms. It's insanity, right? But then where it gets really interesting is he's right now. So like in like communist states, the corporations in the state are kind of the same thing. So there's these like ministry of labor. The stores are all national stores, you know? And so we think that that's not what's happening right now. But actually, because the people who are running

a lot of the corporations used to be in government and the people who are in government used to be running these big corporations. One of the cool points he makes, and also because the government is making the rules that the corporations are in government, used to be running these big corporations. One of the cool points he makes, and also because the government is making the rules that the corporations are working by, but the corporations are putting their own agents into the state, he's saying that actually the line between the state and private companies is really blurry right now. They're kind of merging together, but we like to pretend they're separate.

For example, what's happening right now with the fucking FCC trying to take away the internet. With Verizon having one of their fucking pig drones in a super position of power right now is trying to take away the freedom of the internet. The state can be like the corporations can blame it on the state.

Well, just clarify what you mean by that because they're not trying to take away the freedom of the internet. They're trying to get rid of net neutrality. Exactly. Well, just clarify what you mean by that because they're not trying to take away the freedom of the internet. They're trying to get rid of net neutrality. Exactly, yeah. So what it just means is that you will have to probably pay more to access things that require more bandwidth. It's not going to be what it is now where every website has open access to it. That's it. It sucks.

And you get two versions, right? You get the capitalist version, I think it's a good idea, and then you get the tech version which thinks it's a terrible idea. I almost always go towards the tech version. You have to. Yeah. But that's the anaconda, you know, the way an anaconda kills somebody. Every time you exhale, it squeezes in a little bit. That's all. Like, right now,

the squeeze in is, okay, this fucking internet, it sucks if you're somebody like Jeff Sessions. That's not where the money's coming from. I think you're misinterpreting the whole idea. It's all just a business thing. It's like being able to throttle the data and being able to decide, like if Netflix wants you on their, if you want to have Netflix on the network,

they want to be able to work out some sort of a deal. They don't want to treat Netflix like it's any other sort of streaming service. You're looking at the, there's business transactions. They don't want to treat Netflix like it's any other sort of streaming service. Like, you're looking at the... There's business transactions. They're looking at it in a business sense. They're not saying the internet sucks. No one is trying to squeeze the internet and stop it. What they're trying to do is make more money.

Okay, great. They're trying to make more money. I do know what you're saying, but I think it's a slippery slope, and it's the idea of the internet being treated like water. The internet being treated like i don't know water the internet being treated like just a thing that no corporation should have any kind of say and that that to me it has to stay like that because the moment some corporation whoever it may be gets to start deciding yeah you guys need to pay a little bit more right and if we establish that corporations

in the state aren't as separate as we like to think, then suddenly there's all kinds of back channels. Suddenly there becomes a new way to begin to filter out content. And you could say it's for money. You start building financial walls around things. You start making things vanish into the background because

they aren't in some big conglomerate that's paying off the corporations more or whatever. You just mess up the whole thing, which as far as I can tell, it's doing great. The internet's great. This fucking compound you're in right now, you know, a lot of it came from the internet. This thing we're doing right now. It's the way the internet's been working.

Oh, dude, no one's a bigger proponent of the internet than I am. I just think when we're talking about these issues, you've got to be really objective about what's trying to happen here. They're not trying to silence dissent. They're just trying to make as much money as possible. This is a weird, tricky time when it comes to information. We do have to be very

careful because it could wind up being like, hey, you get your internet from Comcast. Well, Comcast does no longer allow the laugh app that has your podcast featured on it. Or some new streaming service that's yet to be discovered that will be in the future challenging YouTube. So YouTube gets together with Google. They're owned by Google.

And they get together with Verizon. And they make it exclusive for the Verizon network. If you want to get on YouTube, you have to be on the Verizon network. This is all inside the realm of possibility. At the deeper level, though, anybody who thinks that government has not been totally captured by corporations isn't paying attention. I mean, that's not news in this country. I mean, you come from Europe. This is one of the things, the problems I have with anarchists and libertarians.

I think they're very naive about what the world would look like if there were no government regulations. Yeah, I agree. Every poison, every river would be too poison to swim in. You know, the air would be fucking because corporations, it makes sense for them to dump their shit as near to the factory as possible. They don't give a fuck about birth defects and dead people. It doesn't matter. That's true. But a lot of good things come from a lot of anarchist

theorists. And some of those things... I think a lot of it relates back to my shit with the hunter-gatherers, because hunter-gatherers are essentially anarchists, functioning anarchists. The problem is when you scale up and you've got corporations that... I've talked about this on this podcast before.

My idea that my belief that corporations are living things, institutions are living things and their agendas conflict with ours. Like super organisms or something. Right. Like, yeah, that's spooky. I think that every time you get large groups of people together and they operate under one window or one umbrella, rather, they just tend to act like an organism. Just what countries do. I mean, it's a natural thing that human beings do for some strange reason not only human beings right think about flocks of birds and schools of fish and yeah anthills sure there are all sorts of examples and then you go the other direction our our microbiome you know i mean that's all functioning according to its own systems.

And that's happening within us. So there's all sorts of scalable stuff going on. I think you'd be insane to not think there needs to be some kind of structure to help things function smoothly. But I think we all agree we don't need as much structure as we've got right now.

But the problem is... Sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. Just to finish the point, I right now. And a lot of the problem is, sorry to interrupt. Just to finish the point, I think what happens is a lot of people get in their heads and they start thinking that the state is responsible in some way or another for their well-being. And that's what happens is you start forgetting that what's really important is communities. What's really important is finding a group of people that you love and deciding in this group of people, loosely, it's not a commune, it's not like a cult, but just deciding with a group of people that you love, making this really intense decision, which is none of us are ever going to be homeless. You could start there.

That used to be what the family was, but a lot of people don't have that anymore. So groups of people agreeing very loosely to take care of each other in a way that the state is currently functioning with welfare and all that shit. That's to me is like it's not anarchy, but it's a sense of like shrugging off the idea that the state is really going to take care of you. But what if the state is an expression of that sense of community, as it is in a country like Denmark, for example, where Danish people and Dutch people and Swedish people and lots of northern European countries said, we're not going to let anyone be homeless and suffering.

We're not going to let any children be malnourished in this country. We're going to take care of each other. It depends on how, if there was a pure expression, if for one, if the people are unified enough to create a pure expression of what their central goals were, that would be pretty startling to me. But we pay lip service to it in America all the time. Thanks for your service. And we're all in this together. We're all Americans. We're all around the flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we're doing. We're trying to create this sense of community. We're all in this together. We're all Americans. You know, we're all around the flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we're doing. We're trying to create this sense of community.

We're all in it together. But when it comes to actually taking care of each other, then we don't do it. Well, I mean, that's to me. I mean, let's let me say the most naively stupid thing. I was just thinking about this on the way over. I mean, this is so dumb, but I was really thinking this because, you know, the prisoners are fighting the fires right now. You know that? Yeah. Is that really the running out of prisoners? They're getting paid one dollar an hour to fight these fires. But I was really thinking this because, you know, the prisoners are fighting the fires right now. You know that?

Is that real? And they're running out of prisoners. They're getting paid $1 an hour to fight these fires. It's fucking insane. But I was just thinking to myself. $1 an hour? $1 an hour. But I was thinking to myself, man, what if, like, everybody in California was like, shit, there's fires. And we all were going to help fight the fires.

Would we all be able to put the fires out? Like if like as many just people just started flooding to actually go help or if like all these homes are burnt down. And I was just thinking like, shit, man, if like everybody in California is like, all right, let's just go help them build their houses back. I mean, it's so insane. Your house would fall apart if you were building a house. Imagine Dr. Trussell starts building houses. We'd be like, no thanks,

Duncan. Hey, man, do you even know what a level is? What the fuck did you do? Just go frame. I wouldn't be in charge of building the fucking houses. Making sandwiches. Yeah, I make sandwiches, which is another cool thing that I like about. I'm not, by the way, I'm not a fucking anarchist.

But one cool thing I like about the idea is like right now we have this hierarchy of, you know, of like careers. Right. So doctors are valued more than somebody. Plumber. Plumber. Right. Or plumbers are plumbers are valued more than like, I don't know, a house cleaner or something. So it's considered a low status thing if you're somebody who works in a fast food joint or something like that.

But when you get together with a group of people who are fucking cool, some people are good at some things and some people are good at other things. But nobody is valued more than the other person because everybody loves each other. And you've got this like, you know, the person who's the most like somebody digging trenches to like put electrical wires down. A pretty unskilled job is super appreciated because who the fuck wants to dig the trenches, man? It's when you add money to the equation, which is what we're doing right now. And I get it. I'm not saying get rid of money or whatever. When you add money to it equation, which is what we're doing right now, and I get it. I'm not saying get rid of money or whatever. When you add money to it, everything gets fucking weird. So what I'm saying is it's just right now when we hear about the fires, we think, OK, I'll donate some money.

I'll donate some money. That'll do it. I'll donate some money. But this is, like I said before, this crazy naive idea. I just had this image of like, fuck, what if just huge groups of people started going towards the fires? Like white blood cells converging on the contaminant. Yeah, because right now we're using prisoners. Well, do you understand the terrain?

This is not something that most people can traverse. You're talking about like extremely hilly areas that are also. Yeah. You'd have to be not just fit, but you'd have to understand which way the wind's blowing. You could get shoehorned in and surrounded by fire. There's a lot of serious dangers. It's a beautiful idea on paper. We need train...

There'd have to be... It would never... I know, it'd never fucking happen. I just thought... You need gear. You would need a lot of stuff. Someone would have to organize it. It's what the National Guard was supposed to be, right?

It's bigger than the city of Washington, D.C. No, I know. That's how big the fire is. It's what the National Guard was supposed to be, right? It's bigger than the city of Washington, D.C. No, I know. That's how big the fire is. It's fucking bad. I mean, it's insane how big it is. It's terrible. It's terrible. You would have to get a lot of fucking people to circle that bitch.

But we're just so disconnected. Get used to it, boys. We're so broken apart. We're so disconnected. Like, whenever you hear about something going down, it's just a thing that's going down. If someone's house is burnt down, you're like, oh, that fucking house burnt down. That's it. You don't really think much more than that.

And we think the state is going to come in and like take care of everything. And I think that's what the state wants. I love using the term the state. Yeah, but does the state want that or is just how it's structured? No, it wants it. Why do you think the state wants that? Because in the same reason anyone who's like in an, it wants it. Why do you think the state wants that? Because in the same reason anyone who's like in an abusive relationship

wants to be in control. It's like, if you think that I'm the one who's going to help you, then you're dependent on me. Do you think if there was a really effective, massive volunteer firefighter force, the state would resist that? No, I don't.

That's what's beautiful about it is I don't know how the state would resist that. I mean't that's what's beautiful about it is i don't know how the state would resist that i mean we do see the state resisting things like groups of people getting together and trying to feed the homeless and stuff like that yeah how do they resist laws pop up saying you can't feed them like that there's a lot you need licenses yeah licenses you need licenses to feed people you gotta fill out forms baby but is that, would that be a good idea to prevent people from poisoning people or people giving them bad food or, you know? Yeah.

But I mean, I don't know for sure, man. But when was the last time you heard about like an organized group like Food Not Bombs poisoning homeless people? Well, it wouldn't have to be that. It would be Duncan's food delivery service. You just start up tomorrow. Yeah. You might have good intentions, but not really be qualified to prepare food.

These people are eating fucking hamburgers out of trash cans. It's definitely better than what they're eating, for sure. You know, the real issue with homeless people is not just an economic issue, though. One of the big ones that needs to be addressed is mental health. And when they changed the standards during the Reagan administration, they essentially just sent people out on the street. And they were using, Duncan, the argument you're making basically, which is that the state is providing for people. There should be private church communities, religious-based families.

That was the argument they made. I think it was disingenuous. I think it was just about taking money and giving it to them. The whole Reagan thing, what we're seeing now is the fruit, the bitter fruit of the Reagan revolution. They're still using the same economic arguments, Yeah, it left the administration. He came out and said that was all bullshit. We knew it was bullshit. It was just a story we made up. It makes no economic sense. It's ruining the country. I'm so sorry. Jesus Christ. But they're still using it because it's a narrative that's effective. I'm getting into this a lot recently, like how narratives are popular and powerful, not because they make sense, but because they create a story that justifies the power structure that's in control at the time.

Right. Yeah. Well, this is why I think it's like hyper important right now for people to find groups of people that they love and do more than just like play board games, like get together with people and like make stuff like face the facts, man. Fucking California is on fire right now. I mean, everyone thinks this shit just stays the way it is.

It's not just on fire. It's on fire in a way that you realize like, Oh, that could be twice as bad as this. And we would literally have to, everyone would have to flee the state. And it's December. Yeah. this is the rainy season yeah yeah and it easily could be twice as bad as it is now we're just i mean we're in a weird place and there's no rain you know the rain isn't coming

yeah and and you know and like it sucks that people have to you have to like create in your mind the reality of what's happening to my friend. You know, he was sending me pics. He was right by the fires. And he's saying people just can't understand how bad this is. People just can't comprehend it. People because this is this is this is like this is real life right now. Do you guys feel like this, for example, and other things that are happening? Do you feel like this is the

shit hitting the fan in a way that always seemed hypothetical you know like this is to me that we're living through a moment that's almost like aliens arriving and you're like something that you always thought well that would be weird right it's happening it's happening right now it's like there are things happening now that seemed inconceivable even five years ago ten years ago i don't know like i remember what but specifically well i mean like evacuate santa barbara you know that's happened a few times yeah monocito well donald trumping president is the main thing i'm thinking of you know and like oh no these these national monuments we're selling them to this mining company that now you know their lobbyist works for the you know heads of the department

of the interior and just like it's over like they're this we're reaching this is an end stage but you know oh wait hold i know what you mean and like god knows like depending on how much how high i am my brain will get really shrill about fuck this is it man this is the end stage this is a fucking apocalypse has happened man but man but then when you go and look then you take some ketamine well no like I had Bolelli on my podcast

recently he's a historian the first question I asked him is is this the end of the world and he's like I don't think so he's like you know like think of when the black plague wiped out like what 30% of the people on Earth got wiped out? Well, in Europe. It's certainly times that are filled with adversity.

And there's a restructuring. Yeah. I don't mean it's the end of the world per se, but it's the end of the American empire. It's the end of America as a country that other people around the world looked up to as a model to be emulated. Well, we have a popularity contest to see who controls the nukes. And this is the first time that a popular guy... It's so fucked up. That's what it is.

This is the first time a popular guy entered the popularity contest. Right. Someone who knows how to be popular. And there's a bunch of people out there that are pro wrestling fans, and they bought right in hook, line, and sinker. And that's a very simplistic version of it. There's a lot of other people there that are pro wrestling fans, and they bought right in hook, line, and sinker. Yeah. And that's a very simplistic version of it. There's a lot of other people that wanted to throw a monkey wrench in the system because they thought Hillary Clinton was a crook, and she probably is. Because they're all crooks.

Most of those people at the top are at least in some way fucked up. Yes. But we have an opportunity to rebound. Who? Al Franken. I know. Al Franken's just a butt grabber. Not even.

Did you read the last, like the straw that broke the camel's back? The last one where they all said enough is enough. It was in the Atlantic. This woman. She asked for a photo. He put his arm around. His hand was on her waist. And he squoals her fat.

He squeezed her. She said he grabbed a handful of flesh, which is a weird thing to say. But he squeezed her at least twice, is her quote, at least twice. He had his hand on her waist. And she said, I don't even let my husband touch me that way in public because it demeans me as a professional woman. Are you fucking kidding me? I'd like to interview her husband. You're not allowed

to put your arm around your wife in public, dude. And squeeze her. I mean, my wife would love to be squeezed. The more the merrier. The idea of it is very strange, because that one doesn't make sense. The Leanne Tweeden one was the only one that made sense. There's a photo of him. She's unconscious.

It's demeaning. I get the whole thing. He apologized for that, and rightly so. And apparently he tried to kiss her. But then the butt grabbing is like, well, you definitely shouldn't be grabbing people's butts. But, I mean, how much of a big deal is it? Have we stopped? I mean, Chelsea Handler was on Bill Maher the other night, and she said, I have to believe these women because I'm a woman. And I thought, well, wait a minute. Does that mean I have to believe these women because I'm a woman. And I thought, well, wait a minute.

Does that mean I have to believe all men because I'm a man? Isn't there any discussion about whether these things are true or not? Anthony Acumia said this best. He said, he put it on Twitter. He goes, saying all women are liars is just as crazy as saying all women tell the truth. Right. Well, yeah, I think a lot, Franken, I don't know enough about Franken,

but a lot of these people, it's like, like Weinstein, wasn't it like 40 people or something like that? Like 40? At least. I think when it starts getting up. And also what he's accused of is totally different. It's a different thing.

We're not talking about taking pictures with people where they like you, they want to take a picture with you and you grab their waist. We're talking about, I mean with people where they like you, they want to take a picture with you, and you grab their waist. We're talking about, I mean, he's been accused of rape by more than one woman. Like, actual rape rape. Not just, like, getting someone drunk and having sex with them, but, like, holding them down type rape. Yeah.

There's a lot of crazy. See, here's what's kind of fucked. Here's what's kind of fucked. If prostitution was legal, would that exist? Or is it a power thing? Is it always a power thing? Like, does he want to, like, have sex with the star of his films? I think it's more a question of if there weren't so many teenage boys who never got laid. What would the society look like?

And by this, I don't mean to excuse anyone and I don't mean to say teenage girls should be more promiscuous or anything. You're just looking at it objectively. I'm saying that guys like Harvey Weinstein, that dude didn't get laid in high school. Right. Most of the – you look at these mass shootings. A lot of these guys in their suicide their suicide notes say i'm doing this because i can't get laid i'm gonna die a virgin that's that's how one begins actually uh there's this a massive amount of frustration that builds up because biologically most boys are horny little

monsters at 13 or 14 they're not getting laid very rare rare. Hold on. Go with this, please. Sorry. And so it gets to the point. So there may be five, six years between when a boy is totally obsessed with not just sex, but with being acceptable to women, being loved by women, being touched, being caressed, you know, being and they can't think about anything else, and they're not getting it. And so I think a lot of boys grow up with extreme frustration that either curdles into misogyny, where you get these, like, mass killers. Who do they kill? Hookers. Right. Sexually liberated, free women in their perspective.

And you get guys that just chase money their whole lives because they think the money and the power is going to get them those women. And so when they get to that place and they're still fucking disgusting and they sense that the women don't even want to fuck them or they only fuck them because they're going to get something from them, then there's all this self-hatred and shame. I think that's what's being expressed here. So I think it is power. And I do think that it's an expression or a manifestation of a deeply sex negative pathological culture. But conversely, how do you feel about

like women that weren't attractive in high school? How come they don't lash out in the same way? And they're not out there raping dudes, cutting them down. Well, one, because women are much better at accepting their sexual situation. You see women have accepted a lot of shit that men aren't able to accept for, you know, millennia. That's partly biological and probably partly cultural. But also because, I mean, women can have sex, even women who aren't particularly attractive because the whole market is so skewed in the other direction. Even women who aren't particularly attractive probably don't have much trouble getting laid in high school.

I don't think it's just that. I think you're boiling it down to getting laid. That's a reductionist thing. I think it's way more emotions. That's why I say touch and bonding. Especially with women, though. An unattractive woman who has a hard time finding a boyfriend, someone who loves her, someone who wants to be emotionally connected to her, that probably is just as painful to a woman as a guy who can't find – maybe more painful than a guy who can't find sex partners. In psychology, they say that men express these feelings through anger and women through depression and sadness.

So you probably don't see women lashing out and killing a bunch of dudes. You see them being depressed and feeling like shit. And when you do, they have high testosterone. That's why. High test women. Another point to be made here is that, you know, people do say the thing,

oh, well, people like Harvey Weinstein, they wanted all this money to get laid. But I do not think that's it. I think what people like Harvey Weinstein probably enjoy is power. It's not like, oh, I want to get fucking laid. I'm going to become this massive. It's like, I like to dominate.

I'm a dominating force. That's what I am. I enjoy having people around me who worship me. And as part of that, I'm going to dominate my interns. I'm going to dominate my employees. And when I'm around women, I'm going to use my, I'm going to fucking jerk off in house plants in front. I mean, it's like really.

Fuck the ficus. But you know, you got to really think about that. It's like, I don't, I know what you're saying. Oh, poor Harvey Weinstein when he was fucking in front of the goddamn- But that's not what he's saying. Well, the thing of, he's not getting touched enough. Well, no, no. Well, we're all-

It's like there's a lot of frustration that's inherently connected to this suppressive sexual culture that we find ourselves embroiled in, that we don't necessarily agree with. Right. I mean, why are priests fucking little boys? Why are- Right. You know, because one, that's that's the only access they have two they're less likely to tell on them and three there's self-hatred i just yeah and it's probably recidivism i like to do a little thought experiment which is i like to imagine what where my head's got to be if i jerk off into a house plant in front of somebody if you you have tried that, just think about it.

What's going on with you? Christmas tree. Yeah, it might be like you're just celebrating. Okay. It's like New Year's Eve. Okay. Is that what you do under mistletoe? He doesn't want to clean up.

If you jerk off in the plant, the plant's going to absorb it, and he's just leaving his DNA all over the place. It's probably good for the plant, too. I bet it is. It's terrible for plants. Not my jizz. Fucking Weinstein shit. My jizz is great for plants, bro.

That fucking plant. I wonder where that plant is. That plant's alive. It's running for Senate. Alpha cum. Coming soon from Onnit.com. Joe cum. You can probably sell your cum, right?

I don't want anybody having my cum but don't you think that it's all these things it's I think it's certainly the sex it's not just a power thing because he's not just exercising power he's exercising power in a sexual way yeah it's not just power

I think it's the game like we were talking about like corporations and even police officers and guys like Jeff Sessions who have the game to arrest people. That is the game they play. They get really good at it. That's what the game is. The game with a guy like him is I can't believe I get to fuck

what's her name? Name famous actress. And that famous actress is on her stomach and you're mouth fucking her. Like, whoa. Really? Is this really happening? Why is it really happening? It's happening because you're mouth fucking her like whoa really is this really happening and why is it really happening it's happening because you're going to let her be cat woman or whatever the fuck the movie is right yeah there's there's some

nuttiness to it there's some craziness there's some forbidden thing to it there's some there's a bunch of a bunch of things in play power is one of the dynamics it's just the most foul one all the other ones like the sexual frustration and stuff doesn't seem so gross it's like when you when you you're you're imposing your will on someone then it's unquestionably an expression of power like once you are raping once you're

coercing once you're imposing your will and you're saying i'm gonna you know take away your career if you don't let me have sexual intercourse with you well then it's a hundred percent power thing yeah like how did it get there there's a lot of things and i think you've got to got a lot of this power i mean i i guess i haven't exercised sufficient power in my life to know the answer to this question but does does dominance feel good directly or is it is it something that comes to you indirectly? So in other words, does it feel good to dominate someone else or only because then you can get something that you want from them? I think it's something that you want from them. And I think there's also – I think human beings are connected to each other in an undeniable

way. And I think that if you're exercising power over someone like say if you Hate to paint the scenario, but just say if you raped someone you were sexually attracted someone you're alone with you and you raped them and if you have any conscience at all if You you know they're screaming no and you're still having sex with them and you come and then after what you have to think about it Like you would be horrified at yourself. I did of self-hatred would be almost unimaginable. You've imposed yourself and your twisted sickness. And in the heart of that moment, you know, the power dynamic, trying to impose the power, it can't possibly feel good. I think it's just a thing. I think it's just a, almost like a creepy leftover reptilian

instinct that, that creatures have. Because if you look at rape in nature, and this is not to exonerate rapists, this is not to normalize rape, but it's insanely common in the animal kingdom, right? It's, it's in common in ducks. It's in common in all sorts of different right? It's in common in ducks. It's in common in all sorts of different animals. Orangutans. Dolphins. Yeah. Orangutans.

Ruthless, right? And it's tough because a lot of primatologists are women, and they learn the hard way, from what I've heard, that you always wear jeans if you're working with orangutans. Oh, Jesus Christ. Orapatangs. Oh, my God. That's awful. But this thing, we're supposed to be evolved past that.

And for the most part, by far and above, we are. If you think about all these sexual harassment interactions, now imagine if they were chimps. I mean, imagine if they were orangutans. Rape is the common thing. You could never have a bunch of orangutans in some sort of a building. And people would go, well, of course, we're better than orangutans. We are. That's why we don't rape as much.

But it is problematic to use the word rape when you're talking about animals. Because part of it is the way you described it, that there's the knowledge on some level that this female is totally not into what's happening right now. Whereas presumably an orangutan doesn't have that knowledge and also there are animals where the female is triggered to ovulate by aggressive male behavior that we might call raping right like rabbits you bite the back of their neck and that's what makes the female ovulate well that's there's a lot of weird stuff when it comes to women's what what what is sexually uh attractive to certain women and what arouses them. Rape fantasies is the number one.

Yeah. A lot of women like to be choked. What's happening there? Why do you like to be choked? Why do you like to get your arms pinned behind your back? And why do you like to fight back? You actually like it? You want me to do that?

You want me to hold both your wrists? Okay, you're sure? Like, there's a lot of tying up going on out there. Really? Yeah, a lot of people are, yeah. Duncan's like, I've never heard of it. This is crazy. Like, this is all very, very strange stuff.

I saw the dungeon in your apartment, too. Yeah, but here's the thing. When it comes to, like, S&M or bondage, I think one of the big misconceptions when it comes to that is that if you're being tied up or if you're tying somebody up, that there's like anger happening in that situation. It's one of the most sweet, loving, trusting things that you can do. Respectful. Yeah. It's really like, I don't think-

Respectful, he's like selling it. It is. No, it is. I've spent a lot of time in dungeons, actually. It is. It's like, it's a healing, sweet, beautiful thing. There's a difference between that and rough sex. Huge.

Right. Huge difference. It's also people like. I mean, I personally find it not, it doesn't turn me on at all, largely because it's so choreographed. You you know there's all the outfits and the this and now we're going to do that and you know there's a lot of safe words and right yeah but i mean i have been in those environments and as duncan says it's like the opposite of out of control it's totally in control totally worked It's the difference between a gun range and a war. Right. That's such a good way to put it.

That's such a good way to put it, dude. Totally. That's so funny. Totally different. Yeah. Well, the last time I was at a gun range, I ended up bleeding from the head. What happened? I was with my buddy, Justin, and we were shooting. This was up in Washington State. I was shooting his, I don't remember, what,

a 30-30 or something. You got scoped? He had this big elk gun that he was trying to scope in. And he was like, man, you're shooting really well. Can you just take a few shots on this and see if you're – And I just grabbed it and didn't think that it was a totally different gun. Yeah. And I just went, boom, and the scope went right into my forehead.

All these, like, macho dudes, I'm exposed as the idiot. Hey, I think the gun range we went to shoot at burnt down. Did you hear about that? No. I would imagine it did. I would imagine it did. Just now? Well, recently, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, wow. There was definitely fires in that area. I mean, the fires are so out of control, especially that out towards Santa Barbara and Ventura. Ventura, that's the worst. You know what I keep thinking? What if the fucking big one hits? Like, shit's going to catch on fire when the big one hits,

and all the roads are going to be fucked up. The infrastructure is going to be messed up. This is like without a massive earthquake. What happens if the fucking big one hit right now? Right. Jesus, you're freaking me out. All the water lines are broken. Trucks can't get there.

Yeah. Yeah, it could be a giant issue. Then you have toxic clouds of stuff, too, because all these warehouses going up. Not only that, if the big one hits, it's entirely likely it's not just going to hit here, but it also hits in the ocean. Right. In which case, we get hit with a tsunami. likely it's not just going to hit here, but it also hits in the ocean, in which case we get hit with a tsunami,

in which case all that super expensive real estate in Malibu just gets wiped away. I'm good up in Topanga, though. Yeah, probably. I'll just come down and scavenge. If you're not good up in Topanga, we're really fucked. Yeah, we are fucked. Yeah, you're like a canary in a coal mine. That's me. I'll repopulate the planet leave it to me

dude to get back to your the topic you're talking about it's the what's happening is what the thing that's happening is people are realizing stuff that nobody ever really wanted to talk about shit's changing like if you if you ever watch like porkies or if you watch any of the movies from the 70s like the makeout scenes like the guys are like come on baby come here what are you doing they're like throwing themselves on they're doing things in movies that were just considered like yeah that's how that's i guess that's how it's done you're like you they're forcing themselves there's like scenes i think with like bill murray maybe or scenes in the old movies with all, so many of them,

Pepe Le Pew. You know what I mean? He was my favorite. Yeah, yeah. He was a rapist, 100%, right? Yeah, see, when you're seeing like this, like you're seeing like- French, French. Yeah, it's crazy when you go back and look

and you realize like, shit, man, what's happening is- One of those like 50, movies from the 50s where the guy will just grab the woman and kiss her and she'll be like, oh, how dare you? Smack him in the mouth.

Things are changing is what's happening. And as things change, like two things we need to figure out. Number one, we have to admit like, yeah, I get it, man. Like, you know, for me, like hanging out with you, doing the podcast with you. I know. Here's one thing I know, man. I'm pretty sure at least you don't want to fuck me no okay thank you for recognizing yeah yeah how come you didn't look at me when he said that i was just totally left out of that part of the conversation a chapter in your

next book i but you know research duncan with with like with with what's happening with women is uh because a lot of dudes and i i'm sorry if this is a shocking thing to say, a lot of dudes are in positions of power. And what's happening with women is, like, who want to be actors, who want to, whatever, who want to, like, do stuff. When they're getting around these guys, they don't have that assurance. They're not like, this guy doesn't want to they're probably thinking this guy wants to fuck me when these are women who most guys want to fuck yes yeah so especially if you're talking about harvey weinstein these hot actresses right the the real the strange thing is you have that unquestionably yeah and then you have women that want how to have nothing to do

with that part of the business. They're not trying to be seductive. They just want to work. They want to act. And then they have to deal with all this bullshit. That's it. But then you've got women who sneak into that mix and they're willing. Not only are they willing, they're manipulative and they're seductive.

And they're trying to make their way up the ladder that way. They exist. It's a much smaller percentage, but they exist too. Well, sure. Their whole society is set up to make women think that the only thing they have to trade is their sexuality. I don't think there's anything wrong with these women agreeing to do a film with not even Harvey Weinstein, anyone, and then he says, I'll give you more parts if you fuck me,

and the girl wants to do it and she does it. I think it's gross, but it's not gross if it's not gross to her. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. It's a weird thing. It's only gross if it's gross. Look, it's gross being around a guy like Harvey Weinstein, right? If he's yelling at people and he's fat and sweating all over the place,

it's gross unless it's not gross. Unless you like that kind of guy. Like you might- Like bears, guys are into bears. You might like that. Yeah, right. So at what point are we taking away women's agency when we say that that should never,

that you shouldn't be able to give a guy a blow job and get a part in a movie? It's weird, right? It's like you should be able to pay for things, but you shouldn't be able to pay for things with sex. Why not? Right. That's George Carlin's things.

You can buy things and you can have sex, but you can't buy sex. Like, you know, come on. It's strange. It's strange because I don't think it's necessarily illegal in a barter sense. Like, say if you... Dinner. Yeah. necessarily illegal in a barter sense.

Like say if you... Dinner. Yeah. Like say if you had some woman and she wanted to paint your house, but... And this is a bad example. Oh, you wanted to paint her house. How about this? She wants you to paint that or help her move. She says, I'm not going to pay you, but I will suck your dick.

And you're like, okay. Yeah. Like that's a deal. Like that seems like a good deal. Like you want to do that? And she's like, yeah, I want to do it. I want to suck your dick. How big is that house okay. Yeah. Like, that's a deal. Like, that seems like a good deal. Like, you want to do that? And she's like, yeah, I want to do it. I want to suck your dick. How big is that house?

But I also want you to pay my house. I mean, look, some girl, it depends on who it is. If it's Angelina Jolie and she's 25, you'd be out there with a fucking roller. Painting the Taj Mahal. You'd just be thinking. It's going to take a long time to finish, though. Like, if you're both into it, and this is, and again, I hate that we have to be super clear about this, but I'm not exonerating rape or sexual harassment or predatory behavior.

What I am saying is we have a weird – it's weird that we separate commerce from intimacy when it comes to sex. And it's the only type of intimacy. You can get massaged in your underwear. I do it all the time where women will be talking to me about, you know, well, my kid's going to school at this place and he really likes wrestling but the problem is they're discontinuing the program and while they're doing that, she's digging her elbow in my

back and I'm in pain, but I'm in my underwear alone in a room with this lady and I'm having a nice conversation with her while she's being intimate with me. I mean, that's essentially what's going on. There's oil involved. They're massaging your neck, and it feels really good. As long as you don't shoot any fluid out of your body, we allow that.

Do you ever get a witty when you're getting a massage? It definitely moves. I try to stay calm and zen, though. I put myself in a peaceful place. It's the fucking worst when your dick starts getting hard and you're getting a platonic massage, and you're like preparing your apology. Yeah.

But it's because being touched, we're also touched, starved. Yeah. You know, in this society that I think people have a hard time distinguishing between pleasant touch and eroticism or between good sex and love. You know, we mix it all together because we're so unfamiliar with it. I think there's also, there would be levels to prostitution too, right? Like what would be... You got a peek? Go ahead, buddy.

You don't have to tell us. What would be the problem with someone who, say, was a woman who just did not have a desire to have a family, liked her freedom, didn't want to work a regular job. But she likes having sex with men that she likes. So she picks a few men. Maybe she's got a small roster of like 10 guys who fuck her and they rotate. No, you can't do Tuesday. Mike's doing Tuesday. Okay.

Wednesday. Yeah, Wednesday at work. This is happening. There's a lot of this. I just was visiting with a friend of mine who does this. Really? Yeah, there's a website. I forget what it's called. It's not Friends with Benefits, but they're websites. And there's a whole name for these sugar daddies and sugar daddy sites where the guys know.

It's like, okay, look, we're going to – and the way she described it was there's no – it's no set price. It's not like a thousand bucks to fuck me or whatever. It's like we get together. If I like you, we have dinner or whatever. And yeah. And then you want to get together again next weekend. OK, you want to take me to Malibu? OK, we'll go to Malibu.

And then is money showing up in my account or not? Yeah. And if it's not, then I'm deciding, do I want to keep seeing this dude for nothing? You know, or it was $150. And then it's like – and she's like different guys depending how much money they have. They give her more or less. So she can just decide at any time if she wants to continue the relationship. She doesn't consider herself a prostitute.

And you go to someplace like Thailand. I met this dude in Nepal years ago who explained to me the whole deal. Cause I've spent a lot of time in Thailand, but I've never been able to wrap my head around. And I was horny as hell, but I couldn't wrap my head around the thing, how it worked. Cause you know, getting back to your rape thing, to me, the most demeaning experience in the world would be to find myself in a sexual situation and realize that the woman doesn't want to be there. Right.

You know, like, oh my God, that's just like, I feel so ugly, you know? So to be with a Thai woman and there's all this confusion and she doesn't, she's acting like she wants to do this. Anyway, this guy explained to me, he goes to Thailand. There's a woman he knows there. If she's not around, she'll hook him up with a friend of hers. But basically, he'll travel with her for a month or two, take her all over Thailand. She translates.

She gets them better deals on rooms and food and everything. She knows what to order. And Thailand's very cool about prostitution. It's Buddhist. It doesn't have this anti-sex thing that we have. So it's no big deal, right, as far as the Thai people are concerned. And at some point on that trip, they'll go to the village where she grew up, and they'll meet her family. And he'll be like, yeah, your mother's refrigerator is looking kind of old.

Does she need a new refrigerator? Oh, that would be great. And they go buy a refrigerator and give it to the mother and the mother's super happy. And that's it. That's it. There's no money changing hands. It's a gift. So it's very much like what you're describing. And sex, it's not for the sex. There's sex, there's friendship, there's translation, there's saving me money and telling me the best places to go that's like a guide right and sex is just part of that it's a very it's it's it's hard to conceive from our cultural perspective uh that it actually works that way i don't think there would be anything wrong with a woman deciding to have sex with a bunch of men for money i don't think there's

anything wrong with it i think the real danger is comes into having sex with someone you don't know. You know, if you're a street walker and some guy picks you up and wants to kill you, that's the real danger. The real danger is not in like a clientele, unless of course one of them is a fucking psycho. That can happen on a Tinder date. Yeah, I think we are

operating under the echoes of the Puritans. And I think as grown adults, deep into our, I mean, I'm 50 now. How old are you? 55. The idea that we're still under, and you're? 43. Imagine being under the whims of some people who died hundreds of years ago,

had complete ignorance to human psychology, to physiology, to sexual urges, to genetics. What they knew then is literally flavoring the way we behave today. And it's so insanely suppressive. That's a good point. I also have a point about all this sexual harassment stuff that's uncomfortable. And this is, those environments become your world.

If you were in an office eight hours a day, that is most of your day. Most of your waking conscious day, you're spending in this one area and people, they start behaving like that's the world. And you start becoming sexually attracted to the people that are in your world. And some people reciprocate and some do not. Some people are frustrated and some are not. And some people are gross and they're in a position of power in that weird world. And I think maybe that guy wouldn't sexually harass in the big world.

But in this little world where everything's like jammed in together and you have these clearly defined things. Like this guy's got a plaque on his desk that says, The Boss. Right? And you've got to come in. He's got the desk. Come on and shut the door. Shut the door. Or if you're like Matt Lauer, you've got a button where you lock the door.

Click. Come on inside. We've got to discuss. We've got to review your progress this month. Click. This is the world. I mean, I'm not exonerating Matt Lauer. I can't believe I have to say this again.

But if you're in that guy's world, and I don't even know what he did. I didn't pay attention. I met him once. He was quite a gentleman. But he's in this, he's got to be working 10, 12 hours a day. You're doing the fucking Today Show. It's insanely competitive. That morning TV thing, you have to be on the ball.

You have meetings. You have fucking stuff to review. You have guests. They're going to review your performance and your conversations with people and well matt you know whenever you start talking about sex people drop off look we've got the numbers we've got the charts and the direct relation to what you were saying earlier is what i read about matt lauer was that uh he he couldn't have sex with uh just normal people because he's famous and he's you know he'd get in trouble he's married so he had to maintain the facade of that.

And he couldn't have sex with other famous people because that would come out into the press. So he had to have sex with people who weren't famous, who weren't just normal people, and that left the office. That was it. So imagine if we lived in a world where we said, who gives a shit if Matt Lauer is fucking someone other than his wife? That's between them. We'd have to be living in the 60s again.

I don't know that them in the 60s again this i don't know that was back when dustin hoffman was grabbing titties dude have you guys ever seen by the way last sorry the last word on this for me anyway the people who are acting shocked and outraged around matt lauer and charlie rose are full of shit that's what that's what kills me The hypocrisy of the people who have been working with them for years and going, I had no idea. I heard about Charlie Rose being a fucking creep 15 years ago, and I don't even work in media. You know? Right. It's like the Bill Cosby thing. Yeah, everybody knew that.

The Bill Cosby thing was an open secret. If you guys seen, this is like one of the grossest things you can witness in a workplace. Is when the boss starts giving fucking neck rubs. You ever seen that? A neck rubbing boss. Dude, it is so fucking creepy to watch. A big fat fucking boss sidling up behind some married secretary. Just, oh, how you doing today, Carol? Rubbing her neck just and she could see the look on her face frozen she's got kids she if she says to him hey do you mind

i don't really want you to touch me right now he's gonna be like oh i'm sorry but then she doesn't know down the line down the line when he's doing employer reviews and he's thinking you know what remember that fucking time i just wanted to rub her back man but i'm not rubbing any of the dude's backs in the office now that man that is fucked up that is one of the sleaziest slimiest things and to imagine when you're the boss to to imagine that these bosses, they're oblivious. They just don't know. They just want to give neck rubs. They're not aware.

Like, come on. They can feel. As he's rubbing their back, if you can't feel, they're fucking atoms trying to escape your sweaty goddamn fucking male dominator. Well, how many guys become friends with women? Air tag friends. Just so they just creep in closer. Almost like you're stalking big game and you want to just move real close. Just real slow.

That's what they're doing. One of the classics. That's how I hunt elk. I walk real slow. Give it a neck rub. I don't give it any neck rubs. I try not to make my intentions known. That is what's happening in these environments. I think when people work in offices together, they get attracted to each other. Whitney Cummings has a fucking hilarious bit about it.

I won't do it justice. I'm not going to say it, but she talks about working in an office because she works on Roseanne. She's on the staff. She's in an office all the time. She's like, this is what people do. It's this weird environment. And office romances are fucking, they're so common. Sure.

They're so common. Put people together, they're going to be attracted. And if you're married to some guy, and he's the big boss, and it says that on his brass plate, the big boss. And the big boss has a secretary with a big ass and big tits, and she's friendly. And he's alone with her all day, all day, all day, every day, every week. And she's calling at home because she's on top of the appointments. And she's made his plane. Oh, I have Mike's flight arrangements.

I just wanted to call her. And the wife has to listen to this bitch hanging out with her fucking husband all day, slowly taking her power away, sucking away her influence until one day he can't take it anymore. And he's like, you know, just fucking things at home. I mean, if Carol was like you.

Carol doesn't understand me. Carol's just such a bitch to me sometimes. It's crazy because you give her so much. You provide her so much. You know what I mean? She's lucky. She doesn't know me. Any woman would want to be in Carol's place.

You know me. You work with me. Carol doesn't understand me. Yeah. Next thing you know. Plus, you've got the sexual novelty kicking in, right? Where he's been banging Carol for 15 years. They got kids. They got 15 years. They got kids,

they got a mortgage, they got stress. Denise has a big ass. Yeah. Denise. That's her name. Denise. Denise with her ruby red lipstick and her long nails.

Well, it's fucking, the whole thing is just like of office fucking and all that. It's just like the whole thing is kind of unsavory, but like the, the, and yeah, for sure, office romances, I hope they do happen. I hope everyone in offices is happily fucking all day long. That's glory. But like, man, when you think about –

Not getting much work done. When you think about fucking being Denise, right? Right. And who's this dude's name? Mike. Mike. Mike. Mike.

Mike. Mike. Mike. Mike. Mike. Mike. Think about when you're fucking, you're Denise, and you got this job.

Right. And there's Mike, and Mike's a fucking asshole, man. Mike is not, you're not a... It's a different story than my story. Yeah, I know,

but... I thought Mike just had a lot of responsibility. I thought Mike's a big, burly guy who maybe eats a little too much and drinks a little too much. It's like a trucking company

or sanitation or something. A lot of work responsibilities. Mike smells like fucking onions. His farts are just fucking hell. But you should see Denise's ex-husband, man. Denise has a kid. Denise has a kid with a guy

who's a real piece of shit. He's got tattoos on his neck. I'm saying what's happening right now, right now what's happening is there's been a lot of fucking slimy massages that have been going on yep i'm gonna guess for about 5 000 years there's been a lot of there's yeah more maybe like what 20 000 years of slimy massages has been building up like the fucking yellowstone super caldera and in the fucking like epigenetic dna of women there is probably somewhere encoded in there just millennia of creepy fucking massages that don't stop with the fucking massage depending on what time period you're in you know and so i think that what we're feeling right now is the result of generations of creepy fucking massages and much much worse happening

and women are like fuck this this fucking sucks we're sick of it we're fucking sick of your creepy massages and that's what it is and some women i mean imagine man i've never there's one time at a blockbuster video i used to work at a Blockbuster video, and my boss was this like, just a sleazy fucking, like just a slimy fucking gay dude. I didn't like him. He made us clean the videotapes when they didn't need to be cleaned. It's like, come on, man, these tapes are clean. Spraying fucking videotapes down.

I remember late at night, there's like the area where the cash register is. It's this closed off cubicle place. I'm down on my fucking knees, man, having to get something from underneath there. And this dude like hops up on the fucking counter. And he stretches his legs out in front of me. He's like spread eagles his fucking legs out. It's like blockbuster khaki pants on, curling up. You can see the outline of his fucking boss balls in there. And he's like, you know what I mean?

You never, there is nothing more unappealing than boss balls accentuated by khaki. And you're looking up there and he's looking down at you. The power has been accentuated by khaki oh and you're looking up there and he's looking down at you the power has been accentuated he's looking down at you and he's just saying you did a good job today you did a good job today duncan and i'm like thinking like this is fuck this is truly got to be one of the circles of fucking hell right now because like this dude is hitting on me right now i'm getting paid minimum he's hitting on you for sure dude his legs are spread i don't know can i just doing yoga can i prove it yeah right i don't even think people are doing yoga in north carolina at this time if he was a woman you would

assume that those actions would indicate that she would want sexual intercourse i'm saying there was a feeling now whether i could prove it or whether it was just me or whatever what oh 20s i don't know but there was a feeling that this sucks man there's like more going on here right this sucks that's is it a legal is it like could i is it even sexual harassment no no but it sucks and it's like it sucks dude and that that that is the is what a lot of fucking women have been dealing with for a long time. And they're pissed. Yeah. And they're rightfully fucking pissed.

Because it's like, who wants to be dominated like that? If I'm getting dominated, I want to be paying for it. You know what I mean? I don't want to. Yeah. No, no doubt, man. I really do think there's something to this idea that humans aren't meant to be in these small areas totally enclosed in together with each other all day. I don't think we're designed for it.

I just don't. I think that's an intimate environment. As weird as that sounds, and this is not saying that men and women can't work together and be totally, you know, plutonic. They absolutely can. Yeah. But it's a super unnatural environment to be in these cubicles, these small little boxed-in offices, working day in, day out with people, smelling them. I think we should outlaw offices. Yes.

Start there. How do we get shit done?law offices. Yes. Yeah. Start there. How do we get shit done? Working home. Anarchist. Work from home. Fucking anarchists over here. Don't have any solutions. What the fuck?

We need the state, man. Yeah. We need to be protected by the state, Chris. The state, man. Who's going to fix the roads, man? We can fix the roads. We'll figure it out. Yeah.

We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out we were talking about something earlier that i i wrote down because i wanted to remember it um you were saying about bob dylan's version of all along the watchtower versus jimmy hendrix yeah i think jimmy hendrix was amazing but bob dylan's was his and he wrote it and there was something cool about listening to those words even it wasn't like as pleasing orally but there's a if about listening to those words, even if it wasn't as pleasing orally. But if you go to Cat Power Official, you know who Cat Power is? Yeah. She has a video up today that she put on her Instagram.

She's got a great Instagram. And a video up today of Bob Dylan in the 1960s in Paris getting all these really dumb questions thrown at him. And he's doing this press conference, and he's sitting there smoking cigarettes. He looks like he's 25 years old. And they're yelling things at him and asking him questions. He's like, what? Did you find it?

Yeah, listen to this. Listen, it's kind of crazy, man. Do you agree that you should be the leader of singers with a message? No, I don't know what that is. Don't you think your first records were much better than the ones you do now? Who said that? This one here, still here. You?

That's because he's American. Are you American? I'm French. Well, that's why you probably think my first records are better. Why? Why do you sing? Why? It's because I feel like singing. Because he wants to sing. He loves to sing.

Do you have anything particularly special to express when you sing? No. This is called... This is a folk song. This is a folk song. I want to sing a folk song now. How weird, huh? Yeah.

How fucking weird. French. But how weird is that? Like, seeing this is essentially, like, the same dumb questions you'd get on Twitter. Yeah. Bob Dylan had a Twitter account. He would get those exact same stupid questions. He would do an AMA on Reddit.

Don't you think your older stuff's better than your stuff today? Did you ever see that there's some performance artist who hired security for himself and a cameraman, and he walked through Times Square pretending to be super famous. And they had other people at the periphery studying the crowd reaction to this staged famous person walking through Times Square. Oh, wow. You ever seen this? No. I forget. I don't know how to tell Jamie to look for it, but it's incredible.

They interview people who have seen him. And there's two huge black dudes and a guy with a camera. And he's walking around like he's fucking some superstar. And they interview people around. It's just, damn, Jamie, you are fast, dude. So this is him by himself normally. I guess. Oh, here's the security.

With a suit on and security and i remember they asked people like what do you think of whatever name it is uh and one of the dudes was like well i really liked his early stuff but i think he sold out and this was not one of the guys that was paying off this is another person on the street just making it up random idiot yeah oh that's so hilarious well i've had that happen to me before where someone would come up and ask me for a picture, and then another guy would pull out his phone and go, who are you, man? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm nobody.

Well, why does he want your picture? And he's like getting his camera out like, I'm going to get a picture with you too if I know who you are. Yeah. Like, you don't know who I am, so why would you want a picture with me? Right. That's crazy. Just don't grab his waist, man.

Yeah, if you double pinch my fat, I will call the police. Yeah, yeah. Piece of shit. Double pinching my fat. I mean, you've done tens of thousands of photos. After your shows, you always stand out there and you take a photo of everyone. I don't do that anymore. Oh, really?

It got too weird. Oh, no, I'm sorry to hear that, man. Shows got too big. Oh. Yeah, like the Belco Theater I just did in Denver. Oh, yeah, you're doing really big venues. Yeah, it's too big. I'll do it still at the Ice House and stuff like that,

but sometimes people, they have an agenda, and it's not just to say hi, you know, and they just want to monopolize your time. They don't care if there's other people around you, and you run into those people, and you don't know what to do. It's just too much work. Yeah. That was crazy you did that, man.

That was crazy you did that. That's crazy. I remember thinking, man. That's a lot of time. Sometimes you're standing out there. Did it for 3,700 people. Didn't it add like an extra couple of hours? You're there for two hours.

Yeah. Could have done a second show. Literally. Dude, you must have a fucking immune system. Yeah, it's a great immune system. My biome is on fire. Because when you think of all those, like when you think, like if like we could take your hand after shaking 3,000 people's hands.

There's never that many people. It's 3,700 people in the theater. It might have been 1,000. Let's take your hand. And if we could put it under like a scanning microscope, how much shit do you think is on your hand after one of those nights? Probably like a pretty, lots of shit. Lots of stuff.

Lots of cum. Cum. Piss. Lots of stuff. Lots of cum. Cum. Piss. Lots of piss. Ball sweat. Ball sweat for sure. Cooter sweat. Yeah.

Just like it's a- Mucus. Yeah. Period blood. Lots of nose picking stuff. There's got to be some period blood on my hands. Some, and who knows, man? Maybe like some-

Pizza. Pizza. Some polonium. A lot of weed. Some weed. Weed traces. Yeah. You never know, man.

People try to slip weed into your pocket or something. They hand it to me. They put it in my hand. I always tell them I can't. First of all, I get too much weed. So anybody trying to give me weed, please don't give me any weed. I get too much weed. Yeah.

And then second of all, I don't know you. I can't just take your weed. I just can't. And I can't. I wish I could. I wish I could. I'm sure you're cool. I'm sure you are.

But I have kids. Somebody gave me ayahuasca after a show once. Oh, did you just drink it right there on the spot? Dude, it's like it was a Tupperware with black, murky water. He's like, it's ayahuasca. I remember taking it back to my hotel, looking at it, and for a second thinking like, what would happen if I drank ayahuasca in a fucking holiday inn? Good things.

How bad would that trip be? It would be fucking wonderful. The ceiling would open up. You would be propelled right through it. It's the same stuff that William Hurt drank in Altered States, bro. This is the real shit. I got saved in a Tupperware. Just shake it first.

Dude, once I got home after a show, I'd flown, and someone had given me this framed picture. And I have this framed picture. I don't remember what the art was. It was like a skull or something. I wasn't, somehow, like, I ended up, like, pulling the thing open. And inside the picture was a fucking joint. The guy had shoved a joint into the picture and i had flown with it yeah so if they had if they had like seen if they'd open that shit up right they would have

seen a joint and i would have had to been like nah man somebody gave that to me at a show look at this fucking hippie yeah yeah hippie yeahumbass trying to smuggle one joint. Yeah, yeah. So it's dangerous. It's like tricky, man. You can really get in trouble. I had an interesting experience recently at Heathrow. I don't know. Did you want to talk about this in New York?

Anyway, I was flying through Heathrow and I had a connecting flight, missed the connecting flight, but whatever. There's another one two hours later. So I'm going through security because you have to go again again through security at heathrow when you're coming from outside europe and uh i'm standing there waiting they take my bag for a secondary check and and i see the woman talk to like the boss and he says we'll use the other one over there so she takes my bag over to this other uh security line that's not functioning and she runs it through the machine there she comes back and they talk for a minute, and he comes over to me, and he says,

you and I have to have a conversation. Wow. I said, okay. He said, what do you do? I'm like, writer, psychologist. He's like, yeah, but what do you do? What hobbies do you have? I was like, hobbies?

And I literally, I said, dude, I'm 55. I jerk off and go to bed. I don't have any hobbies. And he didn't smile and uh he's like you have a garden i was like no you work with animals no like i don't know what like fertilizer something fertilizer residue got on your thing they use that for bombs yeah so he's like nitrogen right he's like well you haven't told me a story that makes sense so so I have to call the police. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, nitrates.

I set off the machines, set off the other machine. They're never wrong. You're going to have to sit down right there and wait. And he tells this other guy, watch him. Don't let him go anywhere. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to make a run for it. And he threw. And these cops show up, dude.

And there were like nine cops in body armor. Wow. Like surrounded me. You know, it was like, wow, this is what it feels like to go down. Right. But you are also a 55-year-old white guy who's obviously well-educated. And you're not speaking with a weird accent from Tunisia. That's what I'm thinking.

So if I were black or whatever, I would have been terrified. Did you see the video that I posted of the guy that got gunned down the hallway? I can't watch it. I did see that. I can't watch it. So horrific. Unbelievable. It's murder.

It was murder. And also, why do you have to crawl across the fucking floor? How about they put your hands over your head and we come over and cuff you? Because they wanted to clear the room. He was near the room. They didn't want him to be too close to the room. The room was slightly around the corner. But the way the guy escalated it was playing a game of Simon Says with him.

And then he gunned this guy down. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. I will fucking shoot you. And then did shoot him for just reaching back to grab his pants as his pants were falling down as he was crawling. I mean, he in no way looked like he was doing something dangerous. I mean he would in no way looked like he was doing something dangerous But the most fucking disturbing thing was how many people in the comments after I posted that video on Twitter were saying You know that he didn't comply

They were like saying clean kill. He didn't comply What an ugly yeah, it's a clean this is a clean shooting clean kill come on Joe come on Joe That's a clean kill and all only that, the guy was drunk. He was young. It's an open carry state, by the way. He was white. Yeah, he was white. Did you see the pic of the guy who killed him? Yeah, monster.

Scary looking dude, man. Jamie, can you pull out that demon? He had I'm fucked written on his dust cover of his AR. He said what? I'm fucked. You're fucked, rather. You're fucked. And then, it what? I'm fucked. You're fucked, rather. You're fucked. And then, it should say, I'm fucked.

And then, the other thing was, they didn't let the jury look at the video. They thought it would taint them. Like, it would taint their opinion. Like, what are you talking about? That's reality.

You need to see that video. That video is, there's the guy. What the fuck? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Jesus Christ, man. Yeah. You know what, man? That's a guy who got fuck yeah jesus christ man yeah you know what that's a guy who got beat up a lot in high school and there's that old expression that if you give someone a hammer

everything looks like a nail yeah that's the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and you're giving this young guy who's obviously fucking psycho, the way he gunned that guy down, I mean, that was insane. Just fucking insane. And the idea that this represents two human beings in an interaction and that one human being has that much power over the other one, that he can yell at them, scream at them,

totally escalate the situation, not de-escalate, you know, and that he's got this gun out. By the way, which you're in an open carry state. So if the guy did have a toy gun or whatever the fuck they said he had, and he's holding his toy gun and someone calls the police, you're allowed to have a toy gun. You're allowed to have a gun gun in Arizona. It's an open carry state.

He was an exterminator and he had like 22s or something that he used for extermination in the room, and somebody saw through the window him holding a rifle. Yeah, but you know what, man? Those are legal. Yeah. Unless someone just got completely hysterical and called and said, hey, the guy's pointing the gun out the window at people, and this is the message they got. And the cops don't know when they show up. But when you see that guy and that woman and you just see their fucking body language as they're walking down the hallway, super casual.

They're not walking like people that are about to kill people. They comply immediately. The guy's begging for his life. Please don't shoot me. The whole thing was horrific. Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, this gets back

to what we were talking about with the women, this moment in history where women are tired of the sleazy hand rubs. I think we're also at the moment where non-white people are fucking tired of being gunned down. Everybody's tired. This is a white guy, though. Yeah, I know. But this is what I'm saying.

This is everybody. So imagine. Well, but it doesn't show it's everyone. It shows it happens to white people sometimes. But imagine the black guys. I mean. You're right. That guy in Albuquerque, homeless dude.

Yeah. And they fucking throw those grenades and he starts running yeah there was this happened like two years ago there was a homeless guy he's sleeping right out in the the bush somewhere near albuquerque and the cops come out they throw a flash a flash grenade scares the fuck out of him he jumps up starts running away they gun him down from the back they shoot him in the back as he's running away and it's like and they're acquitted i mean it's it's nuts it is there's no um accountability and uh so but the thing that i you know the what's the line that uh i think it was benjamin franklin or or one of the founding fathers said that the revolution occasionally has to be fed with the blood of the patriots. The tree of liberty must sometimes be watered with the blood of patriots and martyrs. What a fucked up tree. Hey, man.

Hey, why you got that in your garden, man? Hey, let's fucking get that thing out of your garden, man. Fuck that tree. Well, but don't you think there's like a cleansing revolution that has to happen every once in a while? I think what we're experiencing now as people, well, what we're getting from information, right, and what we're getting from this use of the internet is the ability to spread information instantaneously. This video could have existed decades ago and we would have never seen it. And there would be no need for body cameras back then either.

They didn't have the technology. So now they do. Everyone has to have a body camera. This guy did this knowing he was filming it, which is even more insane. Like imagine this guy completely unfiltered, right? I mean, he might have just gunned that guy down for the fuck of it as soon as he saw him. I mean, he might be just a guy looking to shoot people, which is real. Well, no, this is the thing that we're, this is like you're saying, oh, priests are molesting kids.

And why? oh, priests are molesting kids. And why? Well, I don't know why so many are doing it, but one thing's for sure. Sociopaths and people who are trying to do fucked up shit. Wait, what was it you were saying about, what's her name, Asa Akira?

What was it you were saying? That she liked DP? Oh, yeah. What is it you said? Well, she said, she was joking on this podcast i deal with her she was like you know i think i've gamed the system because what i love the most in sex is dp and that's what they pay the most for now so what you're being double penetration people who aren't fucked up yeah both of them. New listeners. Kids. But what that shows, that's a person who figured out, truly, who figured out how to make money doing what she loves. And so in the same way, when you have these fucking sociopaths, these pedophiles, who want to make a career, who want to figure out a way to do what they're doing while sustaining themselves, well, they're like, oh, I'll just become a priest. become a priest if i become a priest i'm gonna have and it's all power we're all talking power dynamics

here because it's like it's not enough that you're an older man and you're it's some helpless kid but on top of that you're a representative of the creative force of the universe you're like the fucking spokesperson for the universe the power dynamic there is a is as almost as skewed as it can fucking get and in the same way that guy that guy no i mean you think when that guy goes home he's like listening to sounds of waterfalls and shit and taking baths with lavender candles that guy's that guy goes fucking home and he just probably just fucking punches a brick wall he just punches walls he he's a that guy's that guy goes fucking home and he just probably just fucking punches a brick wall he just punches walls he he's a that guy is not a happy dude i agree and he likes to dominate

people and he wants to be in control and he wants to have power and he got himself into a job where he could be a get paid to be the worst kind of murderous bully there is. And that's what's really happening is that we have in our society monsters. And the monsters are smart and they're figuring out ways to get in the positions of power. And before the bloody revolution, we just need to come up with better ways to scan for these fucking assholes

so that we can keep them out of these positions of power. Not only do we not scan for them, we encourage them. The system is built in such a way that they're encouraged. I mean, it's no accident that we end up with psychopaths as president. Who the fuck else would want to do that? Right. Who seeks?

That's what I asked earlier. I don't think Obama is a psychopath. I don't either. I think Obama and Jimmy Carter are two real exceptions to that. Well, wait. I don't think psychopath is the right word for it, but you do kind of have to come up with a definition of terms, right? So it's like, for example, like Obama, you have to come up with inarguable things.

Like Obama for sure ordered drone strikes that killed people. So if you order a drone strike and it kills people, are you a murderer? That's a question. Are you a murderer if you order a drone strike and it kills people, are you a murderer? That's a question. Are you a murderer if you order a drone strike and it kills people? And the number is insane. The number of innocents is in the high 80s, I believe. But does that make you a murderer? Does that make you a murderer?

80,000? No, percent. Oh, percent. Okay. Like if you have, haven't we done this before, Jamie? Yeah, there are a lot of innocent people killed. With the number of innocents killed by drone strikes, I think it's somewhere in the 80 range, 80% range. But would that make him a murderer?

Is it safe to say when you're using adjectives for him, you could say, well, okay, he has, could you say he has murdered people? Could you say this, that we have an infantile view of what the president is because there are so many tasks and so many human beings and so many things that are connected to him that the idea that he is the one giving all the orders for all these different things that are happening all over the world is kind

of absurd. It's like a monotheistic God or the daddy. We really need to go to a more community-based understanding of religion, of politics, of everything. There shouldn't be one person in charge of everything. That's ridiculous. But the idea that one guy – just think about two massive issues, geopolitics and finance. These are two things that the government is supposed to have their hands on. They're supposed to be able to control the way we interact with world leaders, all sorts of weird military

dictatorships in the Middle East and in North Korea. We have to interact with all of these countries, hundreds of countries. Then on top of that, he's responsible for job growth. Like, what? Yeah. Who is this fucking guy? Right. What else is he doing?

He's ordering drone strikes. He's ordering drone strikes, too. What else is he doing? He's ordering drone strikes. He's ordering drone strikes too. What else is he doing? He's keeping pot illegal. That son of a bitch. He's appointing serene court judges. He's drilling in Alaska. He's cutting a new road through the Salmon River. Like, they're doing... One guy?

One guy doing any... One guy with a full-time job doing any one of those, being responsible for the decisions, is crazy. For any one of those things. responsible for the decisions is crazy for any one of those things. Plus you're the public face of the world. Do you notice that Trump – and I used to think that people were exaggerating, but he's losing his shit. He's micro-strokes, I think. He's slurring his words now.

Yeah, a lot. And he drinks 12 cans of Diet Coke a day apparently, which may be fake news. They might be fucking with us. I don't know. But he watches eight hours of television a day, apparently, which may be fake news. They might be fucking with us. I don't know. But he watches eight hours of television a day? He's the perfect representative of America. Look at this. Nearly 90% of the people killed in airstrikes were not the intended targets during one five-month

period of operation between January 2012 and February 2013. Why do they hate us? Why do they hate us? Why do they hate us? Let's talk about the psychopath idea. Let's talk about the psychopath idea. What is a psychopath? This is a very special kind of murder that's happening here.

Let's take the classic example. God may rest in peace. Charles Manson. One of the things he always said is, I never killed anybody, man. I never killed anybody. And it's true. I don't think he ever killed anybody.

Tex Watson did all the killings. Yeah. So with Manson, it's like, Jesus fucking Christ. That guy is truly, I mean, he really is one of the classics. He's amazing. He's like one of the most entertaining psychopaths in America, maybe ever. He's really a great actor. He's a great musician.

But the thing is, we know Manson. That guy was out of his fucking gourd. We ate your garbage, man. Yeah, you call it a garbage dump. I call it a gold mine. But you take somebody like that and it's like, okay, clearly nuts. But then you take someone like Obama

or any American president who's killed so many more people or ordered people to kill so many more people. And many of those people are children. And they're dressed in a suit. And they're dapper. And they're fucking charismatic. I mean, fuck, if Obama walked into the room right now, I'd be like, wow, Obama, wow, great to meet you. Let me see your boss balls.

You know how drone strikes get approved? No. Lawyers. What? From the Defense No. Lawyers. What? From the Defense Department. Lawyers. Lawyers ultimately make the call whether or not drone strikes get approved. But dude, what?

They get together with lawyers. So what's the? They have a target. Say if the target's an apartment building, they have a geolocator on the target, like whatever it is, whether it's metadata from someone's cell phone that indicates the cell phone's in this particular area. How big of a target is this? How much of a risk is it? What's the benefits?

And they'll literally get together with lawyers. This is according to a guy that I know that used to be one of the bigwigs of the CIA. He's like, this is what happens. Mike Baker told me this. Are they worried about getting sued? They're worried about the legality of it, how it's going to be perceived, whether or not you can be tried as a war criminal for this. Wow. Yeah, like it's not just the scary thing is not just that 90% are unintended targets.

It's that they know going in that they're going to kill a bunch of unintended targets. Crazy, everyone in that apartment. And they still gun them down. Like you saw that collateral murder video, which is what put WikiLeaks on the map. Yeah. When they released that video that showed those guys gunning down and there's a minivan

and there's kids in the van and the guy's literal reaction is shouldn't have brought the kids. Shouldn't have brought the kids. We had to gun you down. Oh, whoops, turns out that wasn't a gun. It was a camera. My bad. I mean, they're gunning you down with blurry images brought the kids. We had to gun you down. Oh, whoops. Turns out that wasn't a gun. It was a camera. My bad.

I mean, they're gunning you down with blurry images from the sky. And then when they killed kids or thought they killed kids, I think the kids survived. They were like, shouldn't have brought the kids. Yeah. And that's what's really wild about it is that we don't, yeah, freedom. The tree of fucking liberty. We got to water it.

What do you want the thing to wither yeah but this is the this is the the to me this is the most interesting thing about living in the united states is the way that you generally don't think about that stuff like you just don't think about it's not a thing that you really what are you gonna do it's like you know it's happening you know we've been doing it you know we've done it over and over and over and over and over again but really nobody what can we do you vote you vote vote be politically active and maybe you can get somebody in power who isn't going to kill a bunch of people but inevitably they keep killing a bunch of people they keep doing it and we keep ignoring it and that is one of the

creepiest fucking things because it's the it's like all right when here in the united states when a cop guns down somebody thank god most people freak out like that video that that you you tweeted we all look at the video and we're like my god how did that guy get off the hook we used to look at his picture he's a monster but probably today i don't know for sure but this week certainly this month some people got exploded by the united states right how often does that happen i mean the thing about drones is they don't really they don't tell you right we're launching drone strikes and then like let's talk about yemen where all the weapons that Saudi Arabia is using to starve and destroy the Yemeni population came from the United States. So, and the pilots are trained by us.

And so we've got our drones blowing people up, but also we've totally armed this country that's destroying this other country. And, you know, they know that. It says USA on the bomb fragments. That's so fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Sorry to I don't know.

I don't know if this will derail it. But, you know, we're talking about Sam Harris earlier. But the disagreement that I have with him around his Islam thing is that he totally discounts the role of U.S. foreign policy in creating the toxic environment that gives rise to things like ISIS. So to – Are you sure that he totally discounts that? Because I don't think that's true. Well, honestly, I don't – you know a lot more about Sam than I do. But some of my friends and listeners would be like, dude, you got to listen. I think that it's a convenient talking point.

I don't think he does. Well, I listened to one podcast he did where he was responding to this article in the publication of Islamic Jihad or something. And he was like, look, this is what I'm talking about. Like all non-Muslims should be killed and blah, blah, blah. jihad or something and he was like look this is what i'm talking about like all you know um uh non-muslims should be killed and blah blah blah and he's going through this whole thing and it's been a year since i listened to it so you know apologies to sam if i'm misremembering this but what i remember thinking at the time was he he said something like well there are people who think that it's u.s. foreign policy, but that's ridiculous. This is Islam. This is Islam.

It says it right here. This is the ideology of Islam. And I'm like, yeah, but dude, that particular ideology of Islam is taking hold, A, because of 100 years of foreign policy of humiliating and destroying these cultures, and B, because of American support for the Saudi-supported schools. I forgot the name of the schools. They're all over the Middle East now because of Saudi Arabia putting them into Pakistan and Afghanistan and all that. Wahhabism. Wahhabism.

Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. So, I mean, I think this is really important that when you destroy countries and when you do it the way we're doing it, we don't even have the balls to go in on the ground. You're just blasting people from the clouds. It creates blowback. And if that's expressed in terms of a religious ideology or whatever it is, it's going to come back. You're absolutely right.

But there's also stuff that's happening to places that has nothing to do with America that's also related to, I mean, look at what's going on in Iraq when the power vacuum was created because Saddam Hussein was killed and the Sunnis and the Shiites started a civil war. And they're starting a war that has nothing to do with America other than the fact that America took out their dictator. But why does Iraq exist? Right.

Who created Iraq? We did, sure. The British. And we created it. And we created it like we did, when I say we, I'm talking about European and post-World War II. Team us. Post-World War I, really.

Yeah, team us. When they created these countries in Africa as well, they intentionally created them so that there were opposing tribes or populations within the country so that they could better exercise control over them. Right? Did they? So they engineered the Sunni and the Shiite? They engineered. You look at the origins of – and I'm not an expert. this several different places, but I know it happened in Africa as well, where they would intentionally draw the border so that you have different tribes within that border

who are all, you have a long lasting enmity with each other. So you can like arm and manipulate one tribe to dominate the others. And then when decolonialization happened, then we end, we have all these unstable structures in place that we've left behind. I think what you're outlining is that it's a very complex issue. It's not simply just the ideology. And I a hundred percent agree. I don't think anybody who's reasonable couldn't agree, but I also think that there's a problem with human psychology and ideologies. And we have this very bizarre desire to be all in, in whatever team that we're on. And when you're on a team that has, arguably in 2017, the most archaic mainstream ideology,

that's Islam, right? I mean, if you stop and think about how ancient is it, how in its practices, the way, especially when it's used in radical ways, the way women are forced to dress, the way in Saudi Arabia, I think up until really recently, they weren't allowed to drive. Now they're allowed to drive. Yeah, within the last two or three years. There's a lot of stuff in it that we would think of as being a part of a bygone era of human beings. Except for Alabama. Roy Moore's losing, though, apparently. Is he?

Yeah. Oh, that's happening right now. Down by 10 points. Wow. Interesting. Cool. But there are those parallels, right? Yeah, there's definitely parallels.

I think it's like all things. We're always looking for one reason why something exists. Yeah. looking for one reason why something exists yeah and look the reason why you have this idea of jihad and jihadism being um like involving suicide bombers and sacrifice in war a lot of that is directly attributable to what happened to afghanistan during the soviet union's interaction with them when we were training the mujahideen. The way they talked people into going to war and armed them against the Soviet Union, these futile attempts. There was a lot of encouragement for a lot of these suicidal tactics.

Maybe not necessarily suicide bombing, but the Mujahideen were armed directly by the United States. And that is what turned Osama bin Laden against us. He was with us then. Charlie Wilson's War. Have you seen that movie? No. Oh, it's about that. It's about the senator, I think he was, who went to Pakistan and oversaw the arming of the Mujahideen. Tom Hanks, the guy everyone says I look like who overdosed a while ago. Philip Hoffman, Seymour Hoffman. What is his name?

Phil Seymour Hoffman. Yeah. And also to relate back to what we were talking about earlier, think about the role of sexual frustration in getting martyrs. These are guys who never get laid. Well, a lot of them, these kids, man. Oh. You know, these are guys who never get laid. Well, a lot of them, these kids, man.

A buddy of mine who was over in Afghanistan was telling me how they would put kids in front of tractors because the tractors weren't expensive. Ah, Jesus Christ. That was Dr. Sean, right? Wasn't that Dr. Baker? It wasn't. I was thinking it was Andy Stump, but no. I think it was Sean Baker was telling me that. He was over in Afghanistan as a medic. He was saying that these guys had, he's like, I can always make another son.

I can't get another tractor. Jesus God. So the other kids walk in front of the tractors to look for landmines. What? Here's a super. I guess all the donkeys have blown up already. Just fucking imagine that that could even be something that someone could say. And you realize the difference in the world, in the harshness of the world that you're talking about.

And the worst thing about Afghanistan is, I mean, I know a lot of old hippies that was on the hippie trail, and Afghanistan was the best place. Everybody loved Afghanistan. The people are so nice, so welcoming. Your bus breaks down in the middle of nowhere. People will come from miles away from their village and take you back to the village and feed you and take care of you. Like it was the most hospitable place in the world. Dude, I'll tell you a scary story about that, though.

Because one of the teachers at these Ram Dass retreats, they all were on the hippie trail, man. And one of them, her name's, I think, Mirabai Bush, I think. But she was telling the story how, you know, the hippie trail, they get in a bus, they travel through Europe to end up in India. The fucking Brotherhood of Eternal Love was like just dispensing just acid everywhere. Do they still do this trail? No. I mean, try fucking bringing a rainbow bus through Afghanistan now, man.

Good luck! You gotta go through Iran to get the soldiers to shoot it. But she was telling this story about how all these hippies were hanging out. I don't know where they were at, but these two fucking dudes rode up in horses wearing the full garb. They had

swords. And one of the hippies said to them something like, we're, the full garb. They had swords. And one of the hippies said to them something like, we're all children of God. And he responded, my God has no children. It was like some kind of heavy duty Islam. It was like, fuck you, hippie. What are you talking about? So it wasn't necessarily, everything wasn't necessarily peaceful and joyful over there.

There was still fundamentalism happening there. But I think all the shit we're talking about, the really creepy thing, is that whatever this is, whether it's the United States stuck a fucking stick in the ant's nest too much, and now we've got these fundamentalist lunatics who will blow themselves up to kill other people.

Whether we've got a viral form of a religion that has infected people's brains and is now like a contained is going to spread with adversity. The real problem is we're also dealing with an exponential increase in technological progress. And this is when I interviewed this guy guy Aaron Frank from Singularity University. This is a scary thing he said. Eventually, there's going to be technology that exists where you can engineer fucking Ebola using some kind of biological 3D printer. That might be 50 years from now, 60 years from now. I don't know. But it's not that far away and also this fucking cuban sound beam right yeah there's kind of you know the story

popped up about these people in cuba state there's some weird chirping sound shot at the embassy right at the embassy the u.s embassy they're they're shooting some sort of sound weapon at them and it's driving them crazy. And it caused brain damage. And so when you consider that already there is apparently some new sonic weapon existing that can make you mentally disabled, maybe permanently. fucking way, which is that they become infected with some paradigm that makes them think that there is an actual loony god out there that wants them to put babies in front of tractors and that wants them to explode other people, and they can maybe get a hold of this sound beam that goes through walls and just start launching it into people's houses. Goes through walls?

I think it went through a wall, yeah. Well, they haven't defined what this weapon is specifically, right? This is a new thing. They know of some sound weapons. Some sound. But this is the thing. There was a time when a nuclear bomb did not exist, and then it existed. Right.

There was a time when a gun didn't exist, and then it existed. So I think it'd be a safe bet to say in the next 50 years we're gonna get some brand new fucking weapon there's some guy in darpa right now whipping up some fucking thing i don't know what it is so who knows what it is you know just like a a new kind of flashlight that shines through walls and just makes you forget who you are well you saw what elon musk said about the robots you'd need a strobe light to see him because they'd be moving so fast in a few years. Yeah. Sleep tight. Yeah, sleep tight, because it's like,

you know, not only do we have, like, these weapons are in the hands right now, like you said. The nuclear weapons are in the hands of somebody who won a popularity contest. I don't know who's gonna control the fucking robots, but one thing's for sure, man. There's a lot of crazy people

on the planet right now and they're going to have access to shit unlike anything we've we've ever seen in the no question yes and how about a weapon that just makes everyone infantile yeah it doesn't kill you like the idea of the hydrogen bomb the idea of the hydrogen bomb right the hydrogen bomb kills all the people leaves all the buildings yeah, right? The hydrogen bomb kills all the people, leaves all the buildings. Yeah, beautiful. But what about- The neutron bomb. Neutron, is that what it is?

Yeah. You're right. What about a stupid bomb? Yeah. Like a bomb that makes everybody have a 50 IQ. There you go. Well, they thought they would drop LSD, right? They were experimenting with LSD in the 60s and 70s, thinking they could use that to make

soldiers crazy on the battlefield. Well, they initially wanted to use it as a truth serum. They wanted to use it on captured enemy soldiers. Yeah. Yeah. There's some hilarious videos from the 1950s giving soldiers acid. The World War II video. Yeah.

Post-World War II. They got them all doped up on acid. I think they're English troops from the UK and they're wandering around in black and white footage just tripping balls. That right yeah it's true dude dude this is the this is actually why we need lsd right now because the problem is we're we're facing one of the most beautiful things that could ever happen to a society which is we're about to create this beautiful technology that is going to be something unlike anything we've ever seen. And it's wonderful.

It's wonderful. Humans are mostly wonderful, I think. But we've got a few of us out there who have been infected with this thing you're talking about. Us or them. The team attitude. It's me and you. It's me versus you. And this is the problem.

This is a real problem. How do we fix that? Because it's like, yeah, I don't know who caused it. That's the thing. Is fucking Harvey Weinstein, is it because teen boys aren't getting jerked off enough? I don't know. But we do have a problem right now, which is that there's a lot of people whose minds are scrambled with crazy ideas and that's okay that's okay back when there were crossbows and

shit but now that we've got these minds scramble with crazy ideas and access to information about how to make fertilizer bombs how to make the I've already heard – Whatever happened with that? Where'd you get the fertilizer? Never finished that story. Oh, yeah, yeah. So what happened was these cops – so this one cop is standing next to me and he's like, oh, so you're from the States, huh? What part do you live in? And we're just chatting. And then this other cop comes over and he's like, I'm going to press my camera.

I have to record this. Do you understand that? I'm like, yes, I i understand you're recording me and anything you say will be used yeah yeah i understand and he's like real up in my face and like i think you're lying to me and giving me all this shit and then he goes away and the other guy's like yeah don't worry he's like he gets uptight sometimes i'm like oh so you're the good cop right and he's like yeah yeah and i said all right that's fine as long as you're not an american cop right? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, all right, that's fine. As long as you're not an American cop, right? I'm not worried about it. Because I knew.

Like, I knew. Like, eventually, this was going to be just a good story. Yeah. And so they're like, well, you know, your bag keeps coming back positive. And they checked my hands and they wiped my jeans and shit. And they said, we got to get the dog. And I'm like, yeah, we get the dog. So now I'm waiting there just chatting.

And they bring this dog. Brian was got to get the dog. And we get the dog. So now I'm waiting there just chatting and they bring this dog. Brian was the name of the dog. And Brian sniffed my bag and didn't, there was nothing. And so they were like, yeah, Brian says you're good to go. Isn't that crazy? Fuck the equipment. Let's tell them the dog. I know.

And they're telling me. And I'm like, guys, there's nothing. Trust me. You can Google me. Like, I'm not, you know. And they're like, the machines are never wrong. They literally said that. And I'm like, well, they're wrong this time.

You know, let's, you want to bet? 50 bucks, 50 pounds, you know? And they're like, yeah, we don't bet. Anyway, so finally, I was like, when the dog was like, you know, that I was free, I said, can I do a group selfie with you guys? Like, put it on Instagram. That'd be pretty funny. And they're like, no, no, we can't have our faces on. Right. But you can take a picture with Brian. Oh, that's cool. I took a picture with the guys. Like, put it on Instagram. That'd be pretty funny. And they're like, no, no, we can't have our faces on.

Right. But you can take a picture with Brian. Oh, that's cool. So I got this picture with the dog, like, licking my cheek and haythrow. Oh, that's hilarious. I bought a laptop once from Red Band, and he was selling this Windows laptop. I wanted to get a second laptop. And first time I used it, took it through the airport, and it got screened.

So they pull you aside. We're going to have to check this again. Have you been near a farm? No. I didn't know what that meant back then. I didn't know about the fertilizer. They checked my hands. Nothing.

They swabbed the entire laptop. And they're like, it tests positive for fertilizer. And cum stains. Yeah, it's probably just Red Band's jizz all over the fucking computer. But they went over it like with a fine-tooth comb with like a swab and they went up and down. They had to ask me a bunch of questions. I explained what I do.

I'm a comedian. I host Fear Factor. And they're like, oh, okay. All right, get out of here. Just gave it to me. Gave me the laptop. Because they recognized you? Yeah, because they checked the laptop.

I said I bought it from a friend. They said, does he work around a farm? I go, I don't think so. And they just tested it, and they swabbed it, and whatever minimal amount of nitrogen that they found on it, which exists in fertilizer but also in bombs, somehow or another. But it's also, by the way, nitrogen is the most common thing in the air. The air is 80% nitrogen. I don't know how they're getting what they're getting off of the laptop.

I don't know why it would test positive or what have you, but it was apparently a minimal amount in some way, shape, or form. They thought it was okay. I thought they were going to turn it on and check the content, and you're going to get in trouble for all the porn on there. All my writing, all the shit that I write down, like the fuck is wrong with your head? But like if you worked on a

farm and you got that nitrogen shit all over you, if you were laying down some fertilizer and it got in your clothes and you went straight to the airport, you're not flying anywhere, bro. They check you and they find that shit on you. If there's somehow or another it gets detected, like it's touching your bags or something like that, you're going to be in for some questioning. Fuck.

Yeah. That sucks, man. So what do you think is going to happen with this democratization of weaponry that you were talking about? Because sometimes I think it could be a good thing. If everybody had the capacity to destroy the planet. No way. It's not a good thing. Jesus, Chris.

No way. That's a crazy idea. Well, it's where we're going. It's where we're going. We're going to have to kill the people that we think would possibly destroy the planet, and then everyone's going to be scared. It's going to be like McCarthyism for nuclear catastrophe. Everyone's going to think that everyone else is. Mutual assured destruction.

Yeah, which works when both people are sane but when you're dealing with someone who wants to die and like and you like these shooters when you look at what's happening with these shooters like the guy in vegas that's an example of a lunatic getting a hold of some technology and using that technology to wipe out a shit ton of people not caring if he's going to die what if that guy was up there with a fucking cuban sonic dum-dum beam just blasting people with this beam that's like making them for the rest of their lives have some kind of neurological impairment what if that person god forbid he was up there like dusting out smallpox that he had printed up in his 3D printer. It's like, the creepy thing about it is, Chris, that there is not a solution. I don't even know how you, like, we're looking at, like, huge chunks of the human population that believe that in this insane creator force that actually wants them to explode themselves.

this insane creator force that actually wants them to explode themselves. You know, they went in and like that, that shooting that just happened where the ISIS came in and just fucking executed a bunch of Sufis, you know, in Egypt. Yes. And Sufism, like that's, that's, you know, it's such a, it's like mystical Islam. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's dancing. Yes, it's dancing.

And so, so we already have this kind of insanity bubbling up in different parts of the planet. And then you have the loner person who just for whatever reason decides to go and shoot up a church or whatever. This is all like Sam Harris arguments. This is what Sam Harris

believes when it comes to ideologies being incredibly toxic in that form yeah they can be they can be yeah they can be i want to start a fight with sam harris but i like him it seems like a fun thing to do i'm gonna get you harris i'm coming for you with your hey mr you logical focus i'll get you for your. How dare you be right all the time. No, but the, yeah, man, this is like a, this is, you know, AI is a big problem. But also the fact that the current AI that we're running, the human operating system,

is like already fucking up in this kind of intense way. I don't know what the solution is. No one can really even think about it. But it is going, it's a problem in the most intense way, I don't know what the solution is. No one can really even think about it. But it's a problem in the most intense way. Well, here's how easy the AI is to hack. Donald Trump, who's never been religious at any point in his life, ever, now is able to say, God bless America. And everybody starts clapping.

And they believe that he believes that God is blessing america which has never been a part of his thought process that's right like there's a giant history of donald trump interacting with the world never were was there any proselytizing right there's never any espousing of any religious doctrines or talking about the greatness of christianity but now he does it and because he's in this position where you have to believe it, we accept that new variation in his speech that now he brings God into the equation

where he never brought God into the equation before. That's so creepy, man. The way you just said, I didn't know what you were talking about because I'm like, Trump definitely didn't hack any fucking AI, but now I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

Yeah. He's tapped into this. Human AI. Yeah. And the requirement to believe in supernatural beings that are looking out for us. Yeah. He's tapped into this. Human AI. Yeah. And the requirement to believe in supernatural beings that are looking out for us. Right. That's a requirement. Right.

In 2017, you cannot, like if Chris Ryan wanted to run for president, one of the real issues that would be is, I can't trust an atheist. Right. Oh. I think that's going to be the least of the problems. I just read your book. We've got to sit down and talk because I'm not some crazy polygamous monkey person, you piece of shit. My first press conference would be a doozy, let me tell you.

It'd be great. Yeah, man. So that is the problem is that human AI, we're getting better at hacking it. And this is, I don't think it was Sam Harris who said it, though it might have been, maybe it was Elon Musk, who was saying everyone thinks the problem with AI is that it's going to be robots killing people, which is one part of it. But the real problem is that the AI is going to be able to start hacking the human operating system. And we kind of have already witnessed that with the Twitter bots so it's like you can produce the of you can produce the illusion of a majority opinion Using bots so and the more advanced right now you can usually you can at least kind of tell what the bots are like you go back and look and you realize the bots been

Tweeting every like five minutes, and it's got like lists of people in it. It's usually tweeting memes and it seems to have been up. You'd have to chase it down if you just looked at the comments itself after a post. Like say if you're someone who opposes President Trump and they've got Trump bots that they use to go attack someone who says anything bad about Trump. You would just see the overwhelming negative response versus positive response. Yeah. Well, yeah. But you could still, I guess what I'm saying is like right now there's a way you can tell

something's a bot. But as AI gets better, you're going to start seeing, I've been thinking about this, you're going to start seeing these like basically social networking farmers. So the idea is like I create a teenage bot and I figure out a way to get it to create its own Facebook account. And for like, I don't know, six years, it just posts shit on its own Facebook account, giving the illusion that this is a living thing. Now, if I could do that with 7000 of these teen bots. Now I have a bot swarm of 7000 AIs that all have Facebook accounts, Twitter accounts, Instagram accounts that they've been somehow populating with bullshit content for like seven years. So now no one can really even tell if it's a person or not.

I've got a really super powerful weapon. And so I think that's what's the real creepy thing with AIs. And, you know, you've seen that shit that popped up on the internet the ability here's a road in the day look we just made it look like it's winter now we just made it look like it's nighttime now we just made it look like it's whatever any time of year that we want we can make it's going to get to the point where we can make a person look like they said anything and you're not going to be able to tell the difference yeah and then on top of that that That's here, by the way. That's here.

Did you see the, I think it was Radiolab or something that did a podcast about that? It's not quite here. It's close. It's discernible. But you're getting close. So we're talking about reality. Video and audio. Yeah.

It's reality bombs where you're going to be able to bomb a culture with AI, produce the illusion of anything that you fucking want, whatever you want, and people are going to believe it. But devil's advocate here. Haven't we been doing that for a long time? Isn't that what a laugh track is? A studio audience? Yeah, but it's true. You're creating the illusion of community of a bunch of people that believe a certain

thing, that react certain ways, and that manipulates the hordes right bernays wrote about this in the 20s about manipulating and look at how effective it's already been in its rudimentary form now imagine a super advanced form of that and what you're looking at is like the real one of the real problems of ai that maybe is more problematic than robots going so fast you have to use a strobe light to see them. We're talking about people no longer, if you believe that anything in the media or on the internet is real, or if you've been trying to like establish your concept

of what the universe is or the world is based on the news, based on the internet, and people have been doing that for a long time with newspapers and shit, then we're going to enter into a phase in human history where that is no longer necessarily a way for us to gauge what reality actually is because we're not even going to know

if fucking humans are creating the content. We're going to get to a certain point in time where we're not going to know if someone's human. Yeah, that's it. Blade Runner is a real thing. That's going to happen. someone's human. Yeah. That's it. Blade Runner is a real thing. Yeah. That's going to happen. Yeah.

That's not far away. They have some pretty goddamn convincing robot heads now in Japan. Sex robots. Yeah. Looking pretty good. They don't look too bad. And we're getting real close. We're getting within 50 years away from an indiscernible artificial life form.

Yeah. A buddy of mine had a wet dream recently. artificial life form. A buddy of mine had a wet dream recently. He's in his 40s and he had a wet dream where he was having sex with two Asian sex robots.

Oh yeah, for sure. Dude, you watch Ex Machina? That chick, even though you could see right through her legs, she was clear. She had clear arms and shit. You'd still fuck this shit up.

She's beautiful. She was nice to you. How do you know? What is real? I mean, if it interacts with you, if you're talking to it, it's real. It's black mirror shit, man. Yeah, but here's where it gets really interesting is there's this mystic named Gurdjieff, and he called people spiritual machines. Most people already are robots or automatons in the sense that most people, when they're doing anything, whatever the thing is they're doing, it's imitation. So when a person like, you know, does any the way a person, a person who's acting cool.

Right. Usually the person who's acting cool has learned that from something. It's all imitation. It's all autopilot already. So most human beings, they're not even autonomous at all like how most of it most people will spend like three fucking days completely up in their heads not even knowing where they're at i mean i know i've been in that situation where like some time will pass and suddenly i'll be like wait what the fuck i've been in my head for three days straight. I'm running on autopilot. What's going on here, man?

That's like how many people are. They wake up in the morning, they get their coffee, they get in their car, they go and do their thing. They come back, they go to bed. They barely even know what they're doing. Yeah. Momentum. Momentum. Right.

So we're already dealing with a kind of organic robot, a meat machine that's barely even aware of what it's doing, you know, which is why I think, and I know you and I talk about Christ a lot. I'm going to bring it up on your show again. When Jesus is being crucified, I think one of the most poignant things in the New Testament is when Jesus is being crucified, he looks out and he says, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. And a lot of people interpret that as being like, they don't know I'm Jesus. But I think what he's really saying is they don't know what they're fucking doing, man. Period. Period.

They're just on autopilot. They don't know what they're not. They're barely sentient yet. They're termites in the mound. Now, let's think about what we were talking about earlier when we were talking about 50-year-olds. He's trying to grab it. No, no. I didn't know if you were passing it.

Pass it to him. Yeah. Give him some of that shit. When we were talking about 50-year-olds or 50-year-old movies, those old movies where men smacked women and grabbed them and how you're seeing these big changes in the way people behave. Yeah. Now let's go 2,000 years ago.

Let's go way back before written things. Yeah. Now let's go 2000 years ago. Let's, let's, let's go way back before written things. Yes. Right. And let's go back before anybody knew how to write things down or read. And let's imagine. Like, what is that? 10,000 years ago, 15,000. About eight for writing, rudimentary writing.

It's all, it's all insane. If you really think about the amount of raw change that's happening in our life, just what's going on right now with this whole Me Too movement, the sexual harassment, sexual assault, outing of all these predators, all this stuff. I'm good. Just put it. All this stuff that's happening now is this accelerated evolution. Right. is this accelerated evolution. It's like accelerated cultural compatibility, like accelerated understanding of, and it's almost like a new version of equality.

Because it used to be that you could fuck your employee because your employee couldn't say anything. They couldn't do anything. Well, now they can. Now everybody can. And now other people find out about you, and now it't say anything. Right. Right. They couldn't do anything. Well, now they can. Now everybody can. And now other people find out about you and now it becomes an issue. Yeah. It's all forced.

And so now we're going to change the way we think about behaving now and our standards are going to change because our standards have radically changed from a thousand years ago, radically changed from 2000 years ago and radically changed from the 1950s. If you look at the 1950s and we see it, uniquely so in the 1950s, is that we can see it in the form of mainstream media, films. You could read about it in books, but seeing it visually in films is so shocking and stunning. And you see just the way people interacted with each other,

and you just think about if someone from 1950 tried to exist today. It would be hilarious. It would be hilarious. It would be hilarious just watching them try to interact with everybody with phones and all this. They literally would be like a person from a foreign world. That's going to be us a hundred years from now. A hundred years from now, this world will be

indiscernible. The technology is like literally a yellowstone about to blow up the entire country. Yeah, yeah, that's it. It's literally about to super volcano the whole world, and no one is prepared for the consequences. We just assume that the paradigms that exist today are going to remain and that it's just going to get better.

It'll be easier to text people. No, no, no. This paradigm did not exist 2,000 years ago. The world, the way we operate and communicate and even get around. How about the way we get around? How about this hard surface and these metal boxes with rubber tires that now fucking drive themselves?

I mean, we're in the middle of it, but we're also at the gate to insanity. Pure, absolute world-changing insanity from DNA with CRISPR. They've just started injecting it into live people

now. Some guy with some incurable disease allowed them to guinea pig on him. What if he gets fucking cured? What if people figure out a way to get smarter? What if they develop CRISPR telekinesis modules where they can insert them into your fucking head, and it works off your own body's electricity.

Yes. And they never run bad, and we all talk to each other through our minds. And then in school, they have to teach kids a new language, a universal language. Sure. That's not phonetically based. So people stop talking, so our heads grow big like aliens. Our mouths shriver up just like the aliens. That's what the alien that's

what that that archetype is that alien archetype is like what we know we're going to look like if we keep going we're all going to be like a merge of colors because that's like problematic all that dick stuff that shit just gets in the way dude your dick stuff's now all in your brain sure well i like this is what mckenna talked about how like what do you say octopus like that like all the limbs like the ability it has to communicate with body language is so much more profound than us it's like yeah not only are we not going to have this form we're going to be able to decide any form we want any form any form anything you want to be you want to be a fucking octopus yeah theoretically you could be an octopus if we get to that point.

If we get to that point. Without nuking ourselves? Without nuking ourselves or without actual Yellowstone or without sending out. Maybe we just haven't produced. We always are scanning the skies for radio signals. That's what we used to do. But maybe we haven't even produced a signal that an advanced civilization would identify as being something that would come from a civilization.

Right. And the moment we do it, the moment somebody at CERN or somebody at DARPA produces some kind of beam that emanates from the planet, it just summons just a fucking legion of like crafts that just want to enslave us, you know? You know what I mean? It's just like the first little like bloop, and then they're ready. Harvest them. The weirdest thoughts that I've ever had about interacting with other aliens

or other life forms from another planet is not that it's a signal. It's not that like you – but you can go to a place, that you can transform like whatever your consciousness is into something that can travel to different dimensions. And that these things exist in dimensional planes as much as they exist in physical locations. So maybe it's got a physical location of 100 billion light years away or whatever the fuck it is, right? Yeah. But it's also right here.

Yeah. Like, in that it's all tied in together. Like there's this really rudimentary, crude, physical distance space that we operate in on a daily basis because we're still as advanced as we are for Earth. We're still fairly low level in terms of the ability to spring forth an entire universe from something the size of the head of a pin, which is what the Big Bang is. Right. the head of a pin, which is what the Big Bang is, right? So some insanely complex webbing of just insane distance plus potential life forms and different styles of life that could exist on all these different planets, hundreds of billions of known galaxies in the universe that's so big. Lawrence Krauss tried to explain to me the size of the universe, and he changed the way I looked at it.

Because he said, it's not that we know for sure that the universe is 13.7 billion years old. But that's as far back as we can see with what we have now. And he was saying that time, that he was trying to make some distinction between the amount of time it would take to go back more than 13.7 billion years and that time literally moves faster than that and that you can't detect it after work. We're very limited in our ability to detect things after a certain space. So he's not like necessarily the universe is only 13.7 billion years old. It might be infinitely old.

It's like that's as far as we can see with our flashlight. So we assume that's all there is. They have to operate on what they can prove now, right? So this is what they're saying. What we can prove now is that light is, you know, the light we're getting is 13.7 billion years old or the radio waves that indicate that there was some sort of an explosion but all of it is like super sketchy man they're all writing things down on little legal notepads they're all agreeing with the math and looking at it and they're way fucking smarter than me so they're probably right about a lot of stuff but it's entirely possible that just we don't have the ability to detect how much further it actually goes back. This whole faulty assumption of this initial beginning of the universe might be bullshit. There might literally not have ever been a beginning because it has always been here.

Well, in my area, they've been saying anatomically modern human beings have existed for 200,000 years. That's what everybody, including me, writes in the books. That's the accepted wisdom. A couple months ago, they found remains in Morocco that seemed to be about 300,000 years old that appear to be from anatomically modern humans. So it's like, oh, well. So when you say something goes back, well, you've had Graham Hancock on a lot, right? When you say something goes back a certain amount of time, often what you're saying is that's how far back we found something or that we could detect it in the case of the space exploration. Insane.

And here's what's really insane. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's go half a million. That's nothing. Yeah. It's a blink of an eye. A half a million years ago, we were literally some kind of ape thing. Half a million years ago, right?

When were we Australopithecus? Two million years ago? Australopithecus. You know years ago? Australopithecus. You know, I stick with anatomically modern humans, which is why that really jumps out at me. But yeah, I'm not real clear on Australopithecus and Cro-Magnon. Right. I know Neanderthals lived up to about 40,000 years ago and interbred with humans.

How crazy is that one? Yeah. So that means there was some sort of like cultures, there was some sort of like villages and shit back then. Now stop and think how crazy that is. And we're talking about like Mesopotamia or Sumer or Iraq. We're talking about these incredibly advanced for the time civilizations that are like the oldest known modern style civilizations.

They're only 6,000 years old. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. It's so crazy. And the other thing, I actually had an idea for a book, which the rate I write, I'll never live to write it. But the idea is to look at the known unknowns in science, right? Because there are things that are, you elucidated an example earlier where it's like, look,

that's how far we can detect. That doesn't mean that's how far it is. So we know we don't know that. There's a lot of arrogance in the assumption that we have all the data when it comes to the civilizations, too, like how old they are. When you're going into 6,000 years, you're not getting a lot of stuff. When you go 4,000 years before that, you're getting way less stuff. You go 4,000 years before that, you're getting way less stuff. You go 4,000 years before that, you might not have any stuff left. I mean, there might be like some shards of metal that you can't explain and you can't

carbon date those anyway, right? And I think- A rock you can't carbon date. You need like physical things that are like living, right? Like you need like wood or food. Oh, for carbon. Yeah. Carbon dating.

Is that how they're doing it still? No, I think there's some other isotope that they're using that they don't need the carbon but the carbon is accepted and the other one's quite new it's pretty fucking crazy we're so smart not us obviously but someone out there is so smart they could take a piece of something and tell you roughly how old it is yeah that's fucking nuts and apparently it gets a little screwy in places where there's higher levels of carbon and there's some weirdness to it, especially initially when it was first invented.

But just the fact that it exists, that someone could say, oh, well, we found out that the dinosaurs died 65 million years ago. You're like, what? How the fuck do you know that? How the fuck did you figure that out, man? Trust me. How the fuck do you know that? How the fuck did you figure that out, man? Trust me.

How the fuck did you figure that out? And meanwhile, probably 100 years from now, they'll have something that'll tell you the day the asteroid hit. They'll show you a model of the Yucatan before and after. You'll be able to watch it with HTC Vive. Put it over your head. You'll be able to literally watch an accurate representation of that giant five miles wide. Yeah, the crater?

The actual asteroid itself that killed all the dinosaurs. I want to say it was five miles wide, but I might be making that up. Imagine a five mile wide city slamming into the earth going 45,000 miles an hour from space. And you could watch it all take place in virtual reality.

That's going to happen. You're going to be able to see it. You're going to be able to literally witness the people coming off the Mayflower and clubbing Native Americans and raping them and killing them. You will be able to literally see. Westworld. Have you seen Westworld? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's intense. But, I mean, I think that they're going to be able to recreate things.

And as computing power gets more and more power, the only real problem would be things that are prehistorical in terms of cultural things. Maybe not physical animal things, but as far as things that people did or didn't do because they vary so much. Yeah, sure. It'd be so hard to pin down without real, accurate images and videos. But from here on out, from here on out, they're going to be able to have recreations of things that happen that are going to be

indistinguishable. They have images of all of us. Everybody has a Facebook page. Everybody has a picture of you. So the 300 billion whatever it'll be in 100 years, 320 million people that exist in this country right now. There's probably a picture of everybody. That was not the case 100 years ago, right?

Yeah, sure. In the future, there's going to be some sort of a three-dimensional version of you that you use as an avatar in your 3D games. And that's going to look exactly like you. And they're going to be able to make something that literally recreates moments in your life. Well, they're going to be able to take your social thumbprint. They're going to be able to theoretically. They could scan all your Instagram posts, your Facebook posts, all your tweets, even your podcast, analyze your voice, get an idea of your personality, construct some kind of massive amount of data, feed it to an AI, say, create a personality based on this person. Here's their picture, animate the picture. And now you've cloned yourself. And AI is like

basically imbued all the data that exists in you has been used to imbue an image of you with your personality. And now you are living in some kind of simulator, which means that you're going to be able to anyone who has ever had their picture taken and has some kind of data out there to establish some kind of personality. You're going to be able to use that to make to simulate individuals that have lived in the past. And, dude, it's going to get really interesting ethically because it's like, all right, let me fucking take like I don't know who's somebody out there with like a huge social like let me take taylor swift right i'm gonna take her i'm gonna have my ai produce a mini taylor swift and i'm gonna drop her into like a simulated reality filled with fire breathing scorpions to see what taylor swift would do if she was like running through some doom simulator. And they're going to have to come up with laws about this,

which is like you can't duplicate without permission. We've talked about that on the podcast before with robots. We were like, what's going to stop you from making a replica of, say, Jennifer Lopez for a sex robot? It looks exactly like Jennifer Lopez. And is that a violation of her? You go to the store and you could literally buy a Jennifer Lopez fuck doll. sex robot it looks exactly like jennifer lopez and is that a violation of her you go over you know you go to the store and you could literally buy a jennifer lopez fuck doll it looks

indistinguishable you take it home and you fuck jennifer lopez well more like more than likely it's it's going to be you're going to have some kind of like what you would have i guess would be some kind of generic looking fuck doll but you put ai goggles on or augmented reality goggles on it projects whoever you want onto this thing. So it's like you don't have to, you wouldn't go buy a fuck doll based on a celebrity. You would just have some kind of like basically a screen in the form of an Android that your augmented reality

would project a person onto that. It's like being in love. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, that's where it gets. Projecting your ideal person onto that. It's like being in love. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's where it gets- Projecting your ideal person onto someone else. That's where it gets really fucking weird is that's the other thing that you're going to be able to do is you're going to be able to sit across from someone and project onto

them anyone that you want, you know, so that no longer- Oh my God. You know, you'll- You could be talking to Winston Churchill instead of your girlfriend. Yeah, exactly. And then you and I could co-project something onto Joe. So it could be like a game we'd play together. Yeah.

Well, especially if we all decided to live in virtual reality. If we spent most of our time alone in a room, but we felt like we were all hanging out together. If the feeling is indistinguishable than being in a physical location. I mean, there's going to be a lot of that going on, man. Then you don't need a body anymore. We're going to get super close to the alien thing, man. We're going to engineer big giant heads. We're all going to exist in there.

There's going to be HTC vibes built. There's no more atmosphere. We're going to blow out the atmosphere. So we have built-in sunglasses. That's why the aliens have the big black eyes. Those are like built-in Ray-Ban Wayfarers. That's what they are. Yeah.

Dude, I think it's... Brought to you by Ray-Ban wayfarers. Ray-Ban wayfarers. They have skin that doesn't get cancer. It's bulletproof. They figured that out. Don't you think this is... Like, when you smoke DMT,

and I've never smoked DMT, and I never would do any illegal psychedelic, but let's say that I had recently... Yeah, don't do it. Let's say that I had recently done it at at like, I don't know, Burning Man where no one's doing drugs there anymore, but let's say that I'd done it there. But, uh, I like people are so confused anymore. Back in the old days, it was better. Like, so making up that I had had that, I had a crazy experience, man, where, uh, uh where I looked down after drinking this very strong mint tea.

And I saw this fucking, I don't know, it looked kind of like a cow or something. But coming out of it, it had this long neck with like a technological lantern hanging off of it. And I'm looking at that thing and what's interesting about dmt is you look away and you look back that fucking thing's still there man it's just right there i'm like what the fuck got sucked through this tube into this beautiful beautiful domed structure oh man it was so pretty And it was just spinning with potential. It's just pure potentiality. And I'm looking at this incredible thing. It's technology for sure. I mean, whatever this was, the way my brain was interpreting it is like, this is technology.

I'm looking at some kind of super advanced simulator or some kind of machine that is simulating realities. And I'm looking at it's like, my God, it's just so much potential here. But I thought to myself, I'm going to miss my friends if I have to hang out in this place, because the interesting thing about DMT is that there's a sense of I've heard other people report this, a sense of incredible familiarity where you're like, I have been here. In fact, this is home. And then you realize the feeling of coming home is actually,

this is not even close to the feeling of being at home here. And I'm looking around at this and thinking, yeah, but my friends, my friends, what about all my friends? In this space, I'm going to miss them. And that thing, it doesn't talk to you, but it's like might as well be a voice. It's like, oh, you can always go back there and then i open my eyes and i'm back at burning man hanging out with my friends and that's when i realized oh fuck i get reincarnation man i get it this thing you're talking about the simulator that is going to happen sometimes and after having taken

psychedelics you think no no it's already fucking. And this thing that we're in right now, our lives, the idea of reincarnation is you die and then you become a goat or something crazy like that, a larva, a slug. But what if it's that you die, you pop into that DMT realm, and you get to jump back into your life at any frame of your life that you want to? You can actually repopulate your life or reincarnate your life at any moment. So you die, you become the universal super intelligence, and then you gaze back into what happened. And usually it's like in Buddhism, they say the cause of suffering is attachment, that you're attached to that life, this thing you just were, this fucking interdimensional temporal worm that burrowed through time with every action that you took. And you're like, I don't want to die.

Yeah. Well, you're just you're like, I want to go back. Right. I want to go back to this moment right now. And I was podcasting with my pals, doing a shrimp parade. And then, boom, there you are. You're back, back in your life. So in any given moment, you could be reincarnating a million fucking times. You could

just be like always coming back to any frame of your life that you want. And anyway, this is what came to me out there in the desert. And I was thinking, oh, I get it. It's not like you reincarnate into other life forms. You keep repeating your life, but it's not a circle. It's a spiral, hopefully, because each time you can improve a little bit more you can improve a little bit more make decisions that you normally wouldn't make which is why like at any given moment you know the big moments that come when you're around somebody and you're about to say some shitty fucking thing to them you know your enemy you're whoever it may be that moment where you're like about to do the fucking thing you always do and you can feel it like you're you feel this

gravitational pull to the habituation and in that moment you're like you don't say the shitty thing in that moment you discipline yourself you control yourself you don't do the thing you've always done whatever it is and in that moment your life spirals up a little bit and now you're existing in like a completely new new like essentially a new universe. A higher plane. What? You hit a higher plane. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's kind of, in a way it replicates what you talk about sometimes on your social media.

I see on your Instagram, like taming the inner bitch. Yeah. You had a thing the other day. It was like, you know, I really did not want to do this today. You know, I got up, you know, after you did a show the night before or whatever, and you did it. And at the end of it, by doing that thing you didn't want to do or not doing the thing you do want to do, conversely,

you do move to a higher level. You feel way better. So that thing you Instagrammed, which I think is a super cool thing that you do, because I think a lot of people need to think, yeah, man, I could fucking, anytime I want, i could just start jogging it but it's like and you could like really you could you just start doing it you don't even have to be good at it you don't have to do anything could just make sure make sure you do it if you just do that everything changes for the better

and that seems so easy it seems so ridiculous but you need to hear people say it and you need to hear someone say it who actually does it. Yes. Now, that, you know, Rupert Sheldrake, I think you might have said. Yeah, I've had him on. Oh, cool. Okay, so you know his idea of the runnel and the time-space. He calls it a runnel, basically.

So that feeling when you're like, fuck, I'm not going to go running. You're not just feeling your own, like, you know, lack of ambition or laziness. You're literally feeling now again i don't believe this is just like a thought experiment or whatever but you're literally feeling the gravitational pull of infinite lifetimes where in that moment you decided not to go running you're actually feeling like the track that you've carved deep into the time space continuum by every time that moment appears you keep making so when you actually do go i'm gonna go fucking running you're kind of climbing out of this trench that you've dug into time over

countless incarnations and when you do that and you're out there running you're like in a new dimension now you're like what the fuck this is the dimension where i decided to go running and then that that's why everything starts changing a little bit when you make these decisions. Big life-changing moves. Yeah. Yeah. Those are good for you. And for some people, going out jogging can be a life-changing move.

It doesn't have to be some spectacular thing. It could be as simple as like- Taking a yoga class. Deciding you're going to take a yoga class twice a week or three times a week can change your life. Calling someone who you've said some shitty thing to because they did something wrong and being the bigger person apologizing. Instead of holding that stupid grudge, calling them up and being like, hey, I'm sorry.

I was fucking mad. I love you. You're great. Instead of carrying on with this stupid, angry war. Carousel. Yeah, the carousel. Anytime you make decisions like that, things get fucking better so fast. And then like, I don't know if you've noticed that this, I've noticed like synchronicities start happening more.

Like good luck starts happening more. Like interesting things start happening more. I think we fight against ourselves sometimes accidentally. Like, I mean, when I was young, I would have an interaction with someone and then I would always imagine what they were going to say when we talked again. And then I would imagine me talking shit to them. Yes. And then I would imagine them getting upset at me and having a delusional perspective.

I would like play out this weird play in my mind. And then when I was in my 20s, I started to realize how preposterous it was. It took me that long. And I realized I'm wasting all this time. And I didn't realize other people did until I talked to my friend Brian once, and he was saying the same thing.

I go, you have arguments with people that aren't there. He goes, all the fucking time. All the fucking time. I have arguments in my head with people that were there That's like sometimes you'll have a conversation with someone about something and then you both Immediately are like relieved and start laughing because you're both expecting the other person to be like super mad and come in like an asshole Yeah, I mean why you both apologize and then it just goes away and then everybody feels way better better way better Yeah, like conflict is stupid.

What's not stupid is exercising out all the anxiety that your body possesses that it creates conflict in the first place. Whether it's exercising it through meditation or through taking a yoga class or doing something physical that just gives you some relief of stress because you exert yourself. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. Fucking go on a nice hike crazy fucking going on a nice hike You go on a nice hike you get to see things and you feel better like you're walking the blood starts pumping through your brain You come up with great ideas when you hike You know It's like all these things are just little incremental steps that every one of us can take and you do that and it changes everything

Then you'd be nicer nicer to people that changes everything too And it helps you to be nicer if you have control of your physical body that's it yeah and and that you know the question that we're talking about earlier is like what the fuck do we do about the lunatics out there well what you do man you i mean if you can you start with the fucking lunatic that you're sitting in right now. That's what you do, right? Yeah, absolutely. Start with that lunatic. Yeah, absolutely.

And then, and that, I mean, that's exactly what Ram Dass says is we work on ourselves so we can help the people next to us. And that's all you can do. Yeah. Because you can't do shit, man, to make another person, you're not really going to do much to the other people around you. They're going to do much to other people around you. They're going to do their own thing. They're going to decide.

I mean this is something I've been thinking. Fucking Jesus. Because a lot of people talk about miracles and stuff, especially like in the camps I hang out at with. Duncan says, I've been thinking about fucking Jesus. You shouldn't say that, man. Okay, but here. No, I will. Fre shouldn't say that, man. Freaking.

Say freaking, man. That's a different thing. Fucking Jesus, I would totally do it. It's a different thing. I bet you've already done it. If you do DMT, I bet that's part of the experience. Making love to the Christ. You're having intercourse with the Christ. It would be an honor.

Through all pores. It would be an honor. You go together like this. You just merge. You just merge. you just merge you just merge you just merge you're on your knees again at the video store this guy it's always dirty with him it can never be just psychedelic love it's erotic psychedelic love about jesus joe has to be on your knees choking on christ come why not but you can guarantee you can guarantee that's

going to be a sex simulator for sure. Make love to Christ. For sure. For sure. And the Virgin Mary. Yeah. She was hot. These people, they talk about miracles a lot.

Pause Denise. Guys, come on. I'm trying to talk about fucking miracles here. I'm obsessed with this fake Denise gal we created. Denise. No. These people, they talk about miracles a bunch. And having seen some of these fucking gurus do crazy shit. But they always say, it doesn't matter.

Ultimately, these are just fireworks, kind of. It's just tricks. It's a firework. Because the thing is, you could sit in front of someone and levitate bottles in front of them. Levitate a bunch of bottles, teleport across the room, come back, and then tell the person, you know, you're going to be a lot happier

if you go jogging. Someone could do that to me, and tomorrow I'm going to wake up, and I'm like, yeah, he levitated bottles. He teleported across the room, and then he told me I should go jogging. I'll probably go tomorrow. I'm told me I should go jogging. I'll probably go tomorrow. I'm not going to go fucking jogging.

I don't care that he teleported. I don't care that he levitated. So you know what I mean? It doesn't matter. None of the point is like if so, if a person who can levitate bottles probably isn't going to make you go jogging, then certainly you're not going to be able to talk to a person and be like, hey, you know, you're going to feel better if you do this. Right.

You, all you can really do is look at yourself and be like, you know what? I'm going to go fucking jogging. This is a really good point. What is, what's your take on this in terms of like the miracles in the Bible? Like some of the weirder ones, like walking on water. Like, what do you, how do you, what do you think that's about? What do you think, like, even though the interpretation of those is kind of suspect, right? Like, isn't the walking on water is a weird one?

Because I think it has to do with translation. And I think that it could be interpreted in other languages as walking by the water, like walking near the water. It could be thought of as levitating and walking on water. It's all in the preposition, man. Yeah. It's so hard when you're going from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic and all this different shit.

But do you think that this, what you're saying is like that someone would do tricks to get you to listen to them? Like you levitate things or walk on water or turn water into wine. Or read minds. Or Moses splits the sea. Yeah. Like what? Yeah. turn water into wine or read minds or moses splits the sea yeah like what yeah like you know i used to have a bit about that where it was like um like there would be like 100 people standing behind him

going how long can he hold that like what the fuck is he doing like why did he split the oh we have to walk across that yeah that's gonna take days and i'm like i'm like how's he doing that magic tell that silly motherfucker to use his magic and make us a boat. This is crazy. I'm not walking. It's a mile high of sea on one side, a mile high of the other. And you're just walking through the middle. There's fucking dead fish flopping around in the middle.

Walls of water on either side. Yeah. Very humid. Yeah. Fuck that. Well, I mean, that's all, you know, that's literal interpretations of something that's like way deeper than that. Of course. It has a lot of deeper meanings.

It's probably, you know, it's a myth. They're using these like encoded stories to try to get across something that's a lot bigger and that isn't about really walking on water maybe. No, but I think that these showing that the people that had all this knowledge also had magic tricks is very telling. Like the people that everybody would follow, they were able to do things. Yeah. Right? Like how about the guy who called upon a she-bear to kill these kids that were mocking him for being bald? That's a story in the Bible.

That's in the Bible? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a man. I forget his name. She-bear? See if you can find that story. He called upon a she-bear, and God brought down a she-bear to smite these children that were making fun of his balding.

I get it. She-bear and she-ass. Yeah, well, I think it was a female bear. They would call it a she bear back then you know today they were i guess they would call it a sow a sow bear but that this bear killed the kids because they were making fun of him from being for being bald yeah like what like you know there again you have to listen to this guy he's got magic he's able to conjure up beasts from the forest to kill mocking children. Yeah. They walk on water. They turn water into wine.

Here. Why did God kill 42 lads merely for saying Elisha was bald? 42 lads. That makes it worse somehow. Lad is such a friendly word. Well, let's read the verse. Then he went up from there to Bethel and he was going up by the way. Young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him,

go up, you bald head. Go up, you bald head. When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. It doesn't say what he said. The Lord's in all caps, too, by the way. Like it's a fucking Twitter account. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up 42 lads of their number. I thought it was two.

I didn't know it was 42. That's crazy. That's a lot of lad. I didn't know it was two bears either. I thought it was one she-bear. Wait, what is it? So this is like actually exploring this. Why would God allow two bears to kill 42 young lads?

And it's written by a guy named matt slick oh god i don't know he's probably doing porn right now and look what it says let's take a look bitch you ain't taking a look at nothing you're just guessing alicia was traveling from jericho to bethel when a group of young men verbally accosted him uh 42 is a large number of people and they were probably an organized group who had gone out to challenge Elisha. Their mockery implied a malicious intent, especially when the culture of the time insisted on showing respect to their elders. Furthermore, the statement, go up, you bald head, has cultural significance. First of all, go up, in parenthesis, is probably a reference to Elisha's predecessor, Elijah, ascending to heaven.

In other words, they're stating that when Elisha gone, oh, they want Elisha gone. Oh, this is just so ridiculously. Yeah. And since Elijah had gone on to the next world, the implication is they wanted Elisha dead. Also, the epitaph bald head was one of contempt in the East. Also, the epitaph bald head was one of contempt in the East. In quotes, apply to a person who a person even with a bushy head of hair. Lepers had to shave their heads.

Such a statement could easily have been deliberate and malicious insult. Something dangerous in a month. Yeah. Well, this is such a weird interpretation of what it is. Either way, you sent bears to kill people for mocking your fucking head because so you're saying it's okay if they were being disrespectful that god would just call some bears yeah this is the weirdest sort of a justification for attack by by wild beast the creator of the universe is using a wild beast to attack because someone hurt with words yeah have you read the book of Job? Not since I was like...

It's a whopper, man. So it's the story of this guy Job who's prosperous, he's in love, he's married, he has three children and lots of animals and land, everything's going great. And so up in heaven or in wherever they are, God and the devil are having

a conversation. And God is saying, look at how great I am, how everyone loves me. And, you know, look at Job. He loves me. He worships all the time and all that. And the devil says, well, of course he does, because his life's so good. Take away his sheep and see what he says. And God's like, all right. So he kills all Job's sheep. And Job goes to church and worships and no problem. And then the devil's like, yeah, but if he took away the cows and the land there, then you'd see. So God goes and takes away the cows and the land and it goes on and on until Job is totally destitute.

All of his family is dead. He's sitting on an ash heap with boils all over his body. That's how far God was willing to go to prove a point to the devil. Jesus Christ. Yeah, but remember the part that he- And he continued to love God. No, but the- That's a crazy story.

But the part where- Sorry, let me just finish. So then God wins the bet where he's tortured this dude, and he gives back twice as much as everything to Job to reward him. So now he has 400 sheep and six children. And it's like, so it didn't matter who those children were that you killed and the wife. You just give him another wife and more children, you're better. Maybe he had a little time machine, spun it all back. I mean, he did create the universe. he could do whatever the fuck you want but that is kind of like the

part in job that's i mean again literally yeah it's fucking ridiculous but it's not like it's not supposed to be these are stories that are meant to like encompass the human predicament and like one of the cool things in there isn't there this great line where job is like questioning why he would, Job is questioning him too or something. He said something like, Oh yeah, yeah.

They get into an argument. But his response is something like, I created, Yeah, where were you when I created the heavens and the earth? Yeah. And that,

and this is again, man, the fucking tone in this tribal desert religion is really harsh and patriarchal. But the message behind it is pretty similar to the Bhagavad Gita which is this is a fucking battlefield where Krishna turns into the universal form

this is the quote Oppenheimer's quote behold I have become death the destroyer of worlds and so it's a similar thing both of these are are saying, listen, tiny little human thing, all caught up in your life, so fixated on everything about you. You exist within the infinite span of time. A big bang. Something like we were saying, longer than 13.7 billion years.

You tiny, tiny little thing. like we were saying longer than 13.7 billion years you tiny tiny little thing you exist in something so infinitely gigantic and beautiful what do you think you control what do you think you really control you don't control shit you don't control anything so that's what they really it's more of like when we experience inevitable catastrophe in our lives and we're looking around and like, what the fuck, man? What the fuck's wrong with the universe? It's like, nothing's wrong with the universe. Nothing's wrong with you. Nothing's wrong with anything. In fact, everything's perfect. Just surrender to it. Even if you're sitting in the goddamn ash pile covered in boils, if you just let go and surrender and drop the bitterness, then you can, if nothing

else, not suffer under the terrible weight of the resistance or feeling like a victim. That's to me what I get out of Job, you know, from the non-literal level. The literal level, it's like God's hanging out with Satan. So they play poker and shit. What does that mean? Like he just drops by like Satan sometimes just pops by wherever God lives. They make bets. It's ridiculous. People suffer for God's bet. Kind of like Fear Factor

when you think about it. No, you got paid for Fear Factor. Fear Factor, if you win, you made $50,000 for the government. How far will you go? Job? The government takes a piece out of someone winning Naked and Afraid or any of those shows. Government takes a piece. That's crazy.

You're out there choking on bug dicks and trying to make a banana hammock out of literal banana leaves for your dick. I love that show. Fleas are biting you everywhere. It's so ridiculous. Those shows are so ridiculous. It's amazing they haven't killed anybody. It is. How come nobody's gotten bitten by spiders and died or some shit?

Some people get super sick on the show. Oh, yeah. Well, they eat fucked up things. By the way, some of the stuff, if you eat things and don't cook them, those parasites can stay with you forever. That's why I don't do sushi. Sushi's not bad if you get ocean sushi. But I've been told not to eat salmon. Really?

Yeah. Someone said that freshwater salmon. The problem is salmon is a freshwater fish as well. They migrate. They go to ocean and they're susceptible to some parasites. Apparently that tuna and a lot of ocean-born fish isn't susceptible to. Because I guess the parasites don't. They just live way easier in fresh water, which makes sense, right?

Yeah. Also, the salmon stop eating, and their metabolism changes once they get back to fresh water. And so essentially they're dying from that point on. So when you see them upstream there. They're like zombies It's really gross Sushi is a really nutty thing when you stop and think about it right because here we are Where we're like on these little land masses? Surrounded by blue like as soon as you get to the edge you realize how much blue there is you're like holy shit

That's all water like yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're just so accustomed to it. No big deal. It's just water. No, no, no. This thing's mostly water. We're on the dirt spots of this thing that's mostly water. Yeah, what we do is we take these metal boxes and we float out there and we grab whatever's living. We scoop it up with nets and fucking bring it in. Bro, it's great. We serve it with a little bit of jalapeno on the top and some ponzu sauce.

You're going to love it. And we're just extracting the fish out of the water, just pulling them out. It's the only thing like it in terms of that fact that we're not dealing with farmed animals. We're scooping up wild animals. We don't allow that anymore in the United States. Like the United States, they used to have market hunting for buffalo and for elk and for deer. You're not allowed to do that anymore. That United States. Like the United States, you don't, they used to have market hunting for buffalo and for elk and for deer. You're not allowed

to do that anymore. That's illegal. Now, wild game is wild, but not wild fish. Wild fish, you can commercially farm. You can commercially cultivate and harvest.

You go out there with giant fucking nets and just scoop up wild creatures in the middle of the ocean because we don't have good regulations for the fucking ocean. Throw away 80% of what you bring up that you've killed. Oh, yeah.

Just throw it overboard. And we're just draining that thing. We're draining, and it's wild. It's a wild thing. If anybody tried to propose that today with elk, someone said, we're just going to get nets and just run through the forest and gather up all the elk, and then we're going to sell it at the elk store. You'd be like, the fuck you are.

The fuck you are, man. Those things are wild. And kill all the raccoons and squirrels and all the other shit that you use. So you're decimating the environment. And monkeys. And monkeys. You know, those nets are super, they work really hard, you know, I mean, pulling through all that water.

Two or three trips, they cut them loose. They don't pull them back up to the boat and recycle them. They cut them loose. So oceans are full of drifting nets miles wide. No. Yeah. Just going on and killing more and more shit until they finally sink. No.

Yeah. Because as you say, it's this kind of wilderness now where it's unregulated largely. And there's no way to look at it and see all that shit. Holy shit. Yeah. It's really intense. It freaked me out. Just thinking of the sheer numbers of nets drifting through the water and landing on the ground.

I know that because a friend of mine was working with a guy who, let's see if I remember this correctly. It's in Chile, I think. Kyle, he's a surfer. goes around the world and does interesting research. And he was in Chile, and there was a guy starting a company that created a market for those nets to encourage the fishermen to bring them back. And then he recycled that nylon, because it's a pretty high quality nylon. So the whole idea is he's created a sustainable business selling these things made from the nylon that people know comes from the nylon. Wow. This is crazy, man.

Ghost fishing. Yeah. So they just go around. Oh, man. Talking about sushi, I had a really traumatic experience with that in Alaska. Have I told you guys this story? No. So I met this dude on the ferry going up, a really cool guy, Ed, from Oregon somewhere.

He was camping next to me on the deck of the ferry boat. And next to him was this really hot woman, Becca. And Becca never changed her clothes in like three or four days on the ferry. Really sexy, but never changed her clothes, never opened her backpack. She had this huge backpack. Finally, it turned out it was full of weed that she was smuggling from Hawaii up to Alaska. Wow. So Ed sort of fell in love with her.

We get to this town. I bet. Ed's like all into fishing. Yeah, exactly. She's got it all, man. So anyway, he's super into fishing he's yeah exactly she's got it all man so anyway uh he's super into fishing his dream his whole life has been to go to alaska and fish wow he's got this super nice rod carbon rod and all this stuff and i don't know shit about fishing but we were in petersburg alaska and we go out

i walk out with him i'm a vegetarian but But anyway, first cast, he catches the salmon, big-ass salmon, brings it in, kills it with a rock and all that. And then another, he's super happy. It's his dream. Everything's wonderful. We go back to this campsite where we are, and there's like maybe 10 tents around in this campground in a central area with a fire and all that. And he's so happy because he's going to feed everybody. He's got these three fish. He's feeling great.

And so he puts onions and shit inside and the foil and all that. And everybody's hanging out. Everybody's super happy. He passes out the fish. He's got his own. The smaller one is for him. Everyone else is sharing the other two. And I'm sitting up behind him looking over his shoulder,

and I see movement in this fish. And I'm like, hi, and we've been drinking, and it's firelight, but I'm pretty sure I see movement. And I look closer over his shoulder, and there are all these tiny little white worms at the center of the fish that hadn't been cooked out. And they're all just moving like cilia right oh my god so how many have you had a bite already no i'm a vegetarian oh that's right at that point right so i didn't eat any and it's like the best night of his life oh my god and i'm a i And I'm, I gotta tell him. Yes. Right? He's already eaten half the fish. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. So I say, Ed, man, Ed, stop.

Look at this. And he sees it and he's just like, oh, fuck. He goes from the top of the world to the bottom, grabs this bottle of tequila, drinks half this bottle of tequila. To kill it? To try to kill what's in his stomach. Does that work? I don't know. What a great idea.

Probably would work. That guy's thinking. Yeah. know. What a great idea. Probably would work. That guy's thinking. Yeah. Maybe this is a good excuse to get fucked up. Yeah. What happened? Stub my toe? Give me that tequila, quick.

Got fired? Fuck. Give me that tequila, quick. Whatever happens, go for the tequila. I need a half a bottle of tequila on the double. Well, tequila means cure all in Spanish. Really? Oh, man.

Got you. Got me, man. Got you. Got me, too. Got me. Damn. Yeah, worms are fucking scary shit, man. The guy who escaped North Korea, they found enormous tapeworms in his body. They said his body was like, I think they described it as a toy that had been broken. It was just broken all over the place.

Legs are broken. Bones are broken. His insides are filled with parasites. He got shot like four times or something. Yeah, he got shot four times. The whole thing is horrific, man. That poor fucking guy, man. That poor fucking guy.

For a dude who's falling apart, he gets shot four times and he keeps running? Yeah. That's how bad he wanted to get free. I guess. You know? The video's amazing. Have you seen it?

No, I haven't seen the video. It's amazing. It's just making this run for it. And they jump out of the car and they're shooting him at like really close distance while he's running. I mean, I didn't realize that they were that close to him. They were on the ground like 15, 20 feet away from him shooting at him as he's running. As he jumped out of his car. You know what's crazy?

feet away from him, shooting at him as he's running, as he jumped out of his car. You know what's crazy? Is that video of that fucking dude from North Korea in the airport getting that poison put on him? Have you seen that? No, I haven't seen that. Oh, Kim Jong-un's brother. Yeah, Kim Jong-un's brother. There's a video of the assassination.

You can watch it. It's wild. Jamie is on it. Yeah, it's pretty intense. And what was it, sarin? Is that what they put on him? I don't know what. It was some nerve gas. They tricked someone into doing that for them, sarin? Is that what they put on him? I don't know what it was, some nerve gas.

They tricked someone into doing that for them, right? Wasn't that the story? That's the defense of the people who did it. They're saying they didn't know, but apparently there was footage of them practicing it. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's him? Afterwards. That's him after getting zapped.

But you can watch like a professional assassination go down here. Okay, let's see this. Yeah, right at the airport and apparently he had the antidote in his baggage oh jesus christ but this is the thing with the them having like icbms like vx vx that's 20 minutes after vx poisoning just how nutty i mean this is this is some old school shit that they do in the Soviet Union too right a bunch of people

over there have been killed with poison in London actually there they are they're right there just VX Gaston

I don't see it the girl like puts a like a chloroform a rag over his face yeah she just walks over and puts a rag on his head.

You see what we're talking about? I thought they were going to show another video. It's that watch. Just comes up behind him. There it is. Oh, whoa. That's all it takes to kill you? Yeah.

That's fucking insane. And he's saying, someone just put something on my face. Holy shit. Yeah. That's insane. Yeah, isn't that scary? Can't see that coming.

So he's staying there. And she just walks right up and jacks him. Whoa. She was fast, too. That's intense, man. That's intense. So my buddy Ed got medevaced out of Petersburg. With the worms in his stomach

intestinal bleeding jesus christ they were trying to burrow their way out yeah eat his bones from the inside wait this is your friend who drank that so tequila doesn't work to get rid of didn't kill him all he went to the doctor the next day in town and the doctor was like yeah it's probably no big deal whatever you'll be fine fuck doctor. And then I left and traveled all around Alaska and then went back home. And when I was home, I got a letter from him that he had been medevaced out and had been in the hospital, had four or five surgeries. How many other people? It was like fucked up. I don't know if he lived.

From a fish. You don't know if he lived. Yeah. How many other people got sick? Well, it'd be good for the story if you just. Just him. The other fish were fine. Could you go and find out for the story?

So we know how we should feel. I don't like these open-ended fucking... Ed was... He lived... No country for old men type endings. Ed lived happily ever after, Joe. Dude, I... I'm glad to tell you.

I want to say, have you guys seen that video of the cam girl who's like a worm shoots at her asshole? Oh, Duncan, everyone guys seen that video of the cam girl who's like a worm shoots at her asshole oh duncan everyone's seen that have you seen that video oh my god it's like it's a cam girl that we did jamie can pull no it's not on instagram i haven't seen it it. No, it's like- If it's not on Instagram, I haven't seen it. She squats down and it's like just the very tip of some kind of worm thing like pops out of her ass and sucks back. You know what I'm talking about, Jamie? You've seen this?

Maybe I dreamed it. I'm pretty sure- You might not. How interesting is it that there's two completely different social media platforms that we all use, Twitter and Instagram, and one of them allows straight up porn? Which one? Twitter. Twitter has straight up porn. Oh, Twitter and Instagram. And one of them allows straight-up porn. Which one? Twitter. Twitter has straight-up porn.

Oh, that's right. Sometimes in your feet, you see a chick just gagging on a fat dick or taking one right in the ass. Right there. Right in your feet. And you're like, whoa. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. What is that? Instagram won't even show nipples. Girls blur their nipples out. Yeah, you got to put like little acorns on. But what's really interesting is because my eyesight's kind of going shitty anyway. So if a girl only mildly blurs her nipples, to me it looks the same.

So you're getting around. That's good. You're getting around. Playing the system. I'm bilking the system, bro. Playing the ankles. I mean, no, for real though. How blurry does it have to be?

This is the question. Like, would you see, like, a picture of my dick, right? If you have a picture of you sitting there and you wanted to go on Instagram, you with that Hawaiian shirt on, Chris, with your hog hanging out, and you want to take a picture of your dick, would you just slightly pixelate your dick? Yeah. It would be, like, really clear where the head of it is, where the balls are, where the shaft is.

Even the color of your dick would be very easy to discern. But it's not totally your dick because it's all pixely. Right. Oh, there, look. Oh. Okay. Wait, show it from the beginning. That's all I found. Oh, look, watch. You think that's a worm?

No. Seems like a worm. That's so gross. Seems like she's got parasites internally. Yeah, the pixelation thing is one of the most... Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Hey, it's nature. We're talking about nature. That might not be real.

I mean, that wasn't the highest quality. That could have been like some CGI. Even more fucked up. Someone CGI-ing worms into cam girls' assholes. But if it was a worm coming out of her asshole, could she really suck it back in like that? I mean, it's an asshole. It's not lips.

It's like... It sucked itself back in. Yeah, but you don't have a lung connected to your asshole. What? How much are you sucking? How much power does she have to get that spaghetti back into her mouth? No, I think the worm... The thing itself pulled itself.

The worm pulled its head back in. It was like, whoa, another universe. I don't like it. There's a fucking glass thing looking at me. It's cold out here. Some pervert with a camera. Fuck this place.

I know, right? It's used to that steady 96 degrees. Yeah, it's cozy. Wow, how weird, man, that we can get those. I had a dog once that had worms and when she would go to the bathroom, that's how I found it. I saw worms in her poop. And I saw worms around her butthole.

And I was like, oh, someone's got a problem. And they do that ass drag across the carpet. Well, dogs, they eat everything, man. They'll eat anything they find. So they eat a dead rat. They find a dead rat. They just start eating it. They get all kinds of fucked up things inside their body.

Oh, shit, man. Have you seen that documentary? Wait. God, damn it. I can't believe I can't remember his name. He's the guy who, like, only ate McDonald's for- Morgan Spurlock. Have you seen Morgan Spurlock's-

Rats? Yes. Yes. Oh. My. Fuck. Fucking. God.

When they dissect the rat and you see what's living in that thing. How about that bot fly that was in its neck? It's literally like if you had a football growing out of the side of your neck. That's how big this bot fly larva was. It's on Netflix. It's called Rats. It is fucked up. It is so good.

It's really good. He is so good. It's so good, man. But it is so deeply disturbing. Yeah, the raw numbers that you get hit with, you're like, what? Wait a minute. Is that real? Like when you hear there's as many rats in New York City as there are human beings,

and you just go, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Really? Yeah. There's the whole, that's from the bot fly larva that they pulled out of that thing's body. Jesus. that's from the bot fly larva that they pulled out of that thing's body Jesus yeah and they said that there were so many of them that they tested that have like terminal illnesses in them they're just fucking everywhere too man

and in New York they set this camera up while those garbage bags were being put out and you see the rats just dart out of the sewer and then they stuck cameras down the sewer holes to find them and they learn what poison is and they'll piss on it. Or they'll send in, didn't he say they'll send in

like beta rats to eat the poison? Yeah, they send in beta rats and they get stuck in traps and they eat poison and they'll sit back and they'll watch. And you can observe them do this. Really? Yeah, they literally send the dumber rats forward.

They're like all things we were talking rats forward. They're like all things we were talking about earlier. They're like a super organism. Rats are all basically the same shape and size. They vary in like a little bit bigger or a little bit smaller

but mostly the same thing. They look exactly the same and they behave like the same. They all do the same shit and they all move into these, and they're happy to live where nothing else wants to live.

Like, well, we'll take it. We're moving in and they move in and breed in a way that's just unprecedented in terms of things that like mammals that live alongside humans there's not a goddamn thing like rats like no other animals figured out

how to do it like rats can like they can do it in a way where there's as many of them as there was of us just imagine that they're smart how many cockroaches are there? Must be a lot of cockroaches in New York. Probably, I would guess, more than there are rats. Yeah. Right?

Sure, because they're so small. Yeah, but those are like particular things. It's really interesting because people don't like to, they always want to think that they never prejudge. They're not prejudiced. But we certainly are when it comes to rats and bugs. Butterflies are awesome. Butterfly lands on you, everybody's psyched.

A roach walks in the room, everybody freaks out and wants to fucking stomp it. Get it, get it, get it, get it. Oh, my God. Right? Mosquito comes in, everybody's pissed. Spider walks in, ah, some people freak out. Some people want to help the spider. Right. Yeah, man.

When you see any kind of rat, rats are no bueno, like to the core. You see that rat and you're like, that ain't a squirrel. Squirrels are cool. Squirrels are cool. But squirrels are just rats with bushy tails. Let's face it. They're better PR. Yeah.

They have a better publicist. Well, they don't eat meat. That's the thing about squirrels squirrels are eating acorns and shit nuts that's just a better animal

but they do eat meat sometimes there's a fucked up thing about animals especially if there's you know they're sick or they have some

weird nutrition requirement there's a video of a squirrel eating a mouse and it's hard to watch man this squirrel

is holding on to this mouse with its hands and just chewing into it a fucking squirrel And you're like whoa really this is a real trusted you Yeah, you're a fucking squirrel man. You're supposed to be super cool. I could feed you like you could look there. It is Oh, look at him. What are you doing to me here with these fucking videos? First of all, it's Joe. Look at it. Joe is the king.

Well, you started it with the worm in the asshole, and it's been downhill from there. Look how excited he is eating this. Jesus, I can't. I really can't look at that. It's insane because he doesn't have any problem eating that rat. He seems to be watching a movie. It's like he's watching Game of Thrones while he's eating it. He's just enjoying some great show.

Look how quick he's devouring it. Quick. I I mean that thing is like it's like you holding on to a ham Right ice cream cone. Yeah, look at that guy biting into it Look at it's almost gone. Jesus. No, I dropped a big chunk. Oh, he dropped something. Look at these giant chunks of guts it's consuming. He was hungry. This is amazing, man. What's he doing now? Too bad the audio-only audience isn't seeing this. He's burying what's left of it. Oh, you know what, man?

This is a ground squirrel. This is a different kind of squirrel. That might be why. Ground squirrels are a totally different kind of squirrel. Ground squirrels are actually a real problem on ranches because they make holes. Yeah. They estimate, Tohon Ranch is 270,000 acres. And someone there told me, and I didn't check if this is true, but just listen if it is,

told me that the biomass of these ground squirrels is bigger than anything else on the ranch. Because these tiny little things, there's so fucking many of them that all the deer all the bear all the mountain lions all the wild pigs all the cattle that roam around there all the elk everything every other bird ground nesting birds turkeys everything the biomass of those fucking ground squirrels was greater than all of it he's like i just want you to think about that for a second. And I was like, what? And he's like, we got a real problem with these things. He goes, you can't kill them.

And they leave holes. And then the cattle step in those holes and break their ankles. You can't kill them because they're just too wily? Where are you going to find them? You're going to sit out there with a pistol and you're going to shoot a few. What about like poison or something? But this is what he said. He said he shot one of them.

And when he shot it, another one grabbed it and dragged it into the hole. Wow, that's so sad. To eat it. Dude. He's probably eating it. Yeah. He's not like, Daryl! Oh my God, Daryl!

Find out if ground nesting squirrels eat meat. If ground nesting squirrels are omnivores. I wonder if they have just a totally different diet. Because they have those gross tails, too. They have almost rat-like tails. They're gross little things. You don't feel good when you're around them. That's why we need more snakes.

Yeah. We don't need more snakes. We don't need more snakes. Too dangerous. Snakes are one of the only things that all babies are afraid of instinctively. You show an infant an image of a snake and they'll just freak. Well, that's because in the Garden of Eden, a snake is what made Eve eat the tree of the good and evil.

Jesus. He's right, though. Well, that's true. It was a snake's fault. Eve's a good chick. Most neotropic ground squirrels are omnivorous. There you go. There you go.

There you go. So they're eating meat. Ground squirrels. Insects, caterpillars, crookets. Mice. Toads, frogs. And maybe each other. Oh, they get in there and eat the eggs right out of the nest. Yeah, ground nesting birds. Chicks of ducks. Yeah, eggs and chicks of

ducks and songbirds. Songbirds. Mice. Smaller ground squirrels. Oh yeah, so squirrels, ground squirrels are just little monsters. That's why we feel bad about them. They're little evil little meat eaters. So what kept the coyotes, I guess, probably get some of them? Yeah, but the problem is they dig into holes and the coyotes have a hard time catching them too.

They just dart to that fucking hole so quick. I don't think it's an effective method. I don't think they have a lot of effective methods of eradicating them other than like poison and shit, if I had to guess. What about those rat terriers in the Spurlock show? Remember that? Oh my God, it was amazing. You know, they actually hunt rats.

Have you seen this before? I haven't seen the film, no. Dude, they tear these rats apart. It's crazy. They live for it. It's like they live for it. They are in their glory. When they let them loose, these terriers go crazy.

That's like Jack Russell terriers. That's why those little fuckers are so hyper, because they're rat killers. It's fucking dawn of the dead. It's like watching zombies rip them apart. It is. Look at this. They grab and shake them. They're so happy right now.

This is the greatest thing that happens to these dogs is hunting fucking rats. Look at that. He got one. Look at that. Yeah, look at the fucking rat trying to get away and they're just shaking it. Whoa, that is amazing. I guess the guys are helping them. They're digging them up. Yeah, that's the idea. Look at that kid.

The laughter of children as you're watching your mother get ripped apart by monsters. How crazy is it they're in the dirt here and that these guys are digging them out of the holes. And as they dig them out of the holes, the rats explode. And the dogs know. They go to look for it. Look at them wagging their tails.

They're so happy, dude. That's so nuts. It's crazy. You can almost engineer any animal. Oh, there's one. Got it. Got it. Jesus Christ. Look how fast his head's moving. And then what do they do? They're not eating them. Oh, yeah, they tear them apart.

They were tearing them apart. They eat them. They're eating them. But it seems like they just like killing them. Well, they probably eat so much they're stuffed. Now they just I'm sure they eat some of it, though. And that's the whole thing. I don't know. That last one looked like he was bringing it over like maybe they're trained to like get put them in a bag or something that would be clutch maybe yeah you gotta do something with the bodies uh golden retrievers and stuff right they don't eat the ducks right why do you why

why are you so fascinated with this part of nature like sometimes i gotta be careful with your feeds, man. Because I know, man, I don't look at it, but inevitably if you tweet, nature's, what do you say? Nature's... A bitch?

No, he says nature's a... What do you say? What's the thing you say? It depends. A scary bitch? Something like that. If I see that, I'm not watching. Nature, you scary bitch.

Yeah, it's just going to be awful. But why do you... Or amazing. Why do you... Yeah, why are you so interested in that aspect of nature? Well, it's just going to be awful. Or amazing. Why are you so interested in that aspect of nature? Well, it's super extreme, right? I mean, there's an extreme event happening here. One life form is exploding on another life form, and it seems like it's designed to do that.

When you see a jaguar kill a caiman and grab it in the back of its neck and bite into a fucking crocodile and drag it in between its legs up the beach to eat it, you're seeing one of the most extreme things that exists in the world. You're seeing a life form consuming another life form with its face, killing it, like eliminating it from this dimension with its teeth and a very specific part of its body. And it seems like it's designed to do that. And that's the only way you keep these populations in control the populations have a built-in system and we want to look at it through the guise of our civilization and through what we've accepted this is a pet and this is an animal that you eat and you never eat your pet and we

have all these weird little sort of distinctions and cultural ideas that we've attached to animal life but he watched them in their world their world is fucking it's unbelievably ruthless unbelievably ruthless like the our ideas of animals have become so strange because we keep some of them right we keep them around us and we feed them so they're like really sweet to us but there's not a fucking animal in all of nature that is it is sweet with the other animals around it like there are many animals that are sweet with the other animals around them all herd animals for example no that's not what i mean that's what i mean i mean like jaguars and antelopes aren't buddies well when the jaguar is eaten he can walk right through the middle of the herd and they won't even run away because they know he's not hungry.

Oh, but that's so crazy to think that's like if a murderer only kills one of your buddies and eats them, you'll be cool just wandering around that guy. But they're not murderers. They're eating. They are eating. But my point is their interactions are incredibly ruthless. When they happen. But see, this is something I write about in this book I'm working on still, which is the lack of proportionality in this argument. Because this nature is ruthless, red in tooth and claw thing.

That's been very popular for a long time. But it's real. Well, it's real when it's real. But it's also real that we die in agony. And often our agony is extended by medicine to last much longer than that mouse that just got eaten by the squirrel. But I'm not fascinated by death. I'm fascinated by these interactions. But what I'm saying is that

the conclusion to draw from those interactions that therefore nature is this battlefield misrepresents what actually happens in nature. When predation happens, it can be nasty, of course. Right, but that's what I'm saying.

I'm not looking at the entire nature as a whole and making this distinction. This is the only thing interesting about nature. No, no, no. I'm not saying that. Just the depiction of nature as being ruthless. Well, it is in that moment. It is nature, and it is in that moment. And that moment exists.

The only reason why these predators can exist is because they have to be killing things all over the world. I mean, every place where there's a wolf, it means the wolf is alive because it's eating things, which means it's killing things all day long. I mean, that's not an inaccurate depiction. The thing is there's so many things. There's so many elk and so many wolves. Most of the time, the elk aren't getting killed by wolves. Exactly. But those wolves are killing an elk almost every day.

Sure. So it's just a matter of how you look at it. Right. But you're sort of diminishing the ruthless aspect of it because you're looking at the overall picture of it, right? But I'm not diminishing it. What I'm saying is that that's one perspective on it. Right.

And actually, in terms of proportion, it's a minor perspective on it. For example, I was watching this nature thing and there were these seals playing in the waves and then the doo doo doo doo doo doo doo starts and this great white comes up and hits one of the seals and they slow it down to 140th natural speed you mean an orca right well i think it was a great white it may have been an orca it's same same thing and this the seal lands in its mouth and you see it crunching the seal and the blood running down and the narration is nature is ruthless and there's the never-ending struggle for survival and yada yada right and so i'm

looking at that i'm thinking how long do harbor seals live so i look it up online harbor seals live about 25 to 30 years i've seen a lot of seals lying around on rocks having a good time, not stressed out. I don't see a lot of high-stress seals. And so I think it's like, okay, this seal, let's say it lived 25 years. It's hanging out, eating sushi, having a good time. Then boom, it's dead so quickly that we have to slow this down to 140th of normal speed so you can enjoy this death porn. Right. That's a tiny sliver of that seal's existence.

And we're depicting nature as this incredibly ruthless, horrible, bloody place. That's just inaccurate. Well, it's not in that moment. Not in that moment. But you can't ignore that moment. No, of course not. Of course not. But that moment is the in that moment. But you can't ignore that moment. No, of course not. Of course not. But that moment is the reason why the seal's population is controlled.

The moment is the reason why the shark can live. Oh, yeah. It all has to be there. I agree with you, but I disagree with you. I agree with you. I see you're saying that there's way more going on than just this tooth, fang, claw. I'm not looking at it from a moral perspective. I'm looking at it from a chaotic perspective.

It is fascinating. These schools of tuna that we scoop up with nets, they're out there jacking little fish. That's why they're in schools. Because they operate more efficiently that way. And they're chasing down sardines and fucking them up. And that's oftentimes how you catch fish. When I was tuna fishing in Mexico, we were catching amberjack or skipjack, I forget. But you would find these pools of bait fish going crazy on the surface of the water because the tuna were all ganging up on them and jacking them.

And then you got the pelicans on top attacking from the top. So you see the birds, and then you would see the frothing of the water, and then these fish would just go crazy and fuck up these little bait fish. the frothing of the water, and then these fish would just go crazy and fuck up these little bait fish. And you would literally just cast into this football field size swirling in the ocean, and these fish would just bite it, and you would just catch them almost instantly. So that is not the whole ocean all the time, but that's still real. Of course it's real. I'm not denying the reality.

I'm talking in proportion. I agree. But the thing that I find the most fascinating, for whatever fucked up reason, is when the water buffalo comes at the lion and the lion ducks under the water buffalo and grabs it by its neck and rolls it over the ground and crushes its neck. I am fascinated by the idea that all moral judgments aside, nature has somehow engineered a jaguar and a caiman. And then this jaguar looked at that caiman and was like, I don't know how to figure out how to put that in me. And he snuck up, swam in the water, snuck up on a goddamn crocodile, jumped on its back, bit its neck. There's a lot of cool shit. I like watching jaguars when they get a hold of psychedelic plants.

Have you ever seen that? Sure. I don't think so. You ever seen that? No. There's a type of vine that's rich in DMT that jaguars will chew on. And then they literally just lie on their back and they're just staring out into space, tripping balls.

It's like catnip for jaguars or something. Yeah, it is. But they think it's psychedelic. They think that might be when you have all these jaguars or something. Yeah, it is. But they think it's psychedelic. They think that might be when you have all these jaguar dreams, when people take ayahuasca, it might be that the jaguar is interfacing with the same dimension that you are. Wow. So that's the reason why. Because we know that these jaguars do take these psychedelic plants, and we know that

these psychedelic plants, when they were first discovered, they were trying to call, harming is the chemical, but they were trying to call it telepathy because they didn't know it was the same as harming. They had to run tests on it and find out that it was already an established molecule. It was an already established compound. So the reason why they called it telepathy was because people were experiencing group states of consciousness while they were taking this stuff. So they're thinking that these people that do ayahuasca

and have these trips with jaguars, they literally might be interacting with jaguars who are also tripping. Like see this thing is just eating these leaves and lying down on its back clearly in an altered state. and lying down on its back clearly in an altered state just rolling around on its back with its paws up in the air staring at things that

aren't there yeah you know what it's staring at it's like in brooklyn right now with a bunch of fucking people on ayahuasca and it's like hanging out hanging out in some loft in brooklyn with some fucking glass blowers a couple of accountants. Look at its eyes dilate, its mind's going back and forth. That is so fucking wild. I'm going to Peru in a couple weeks. Are you going to get down with the funky medicine? Plant medicine?

Yeah, if the right situation presents itself. That's the thing, right? The problem is the people that say plant medicine, they all make you go, mm. The people that are really that say plant medicine they all make you go oh yeah they're like really into like the plant medicine you're like okay yeah okay like you might be cool if you use those terms all the time or you might be one of those fucking weirdos you know there's there's there's a bunch of people that are into the psychedelic world that they you know they would

have been into the moonies if the moonies found them, right? There are lots of different plants that they use, though. It's not just ayahuasca. So if you just use it as a general term, there's San Pedro and all these other- Oh, no, I'm fully aware. It's just the people love saying it. Yeah. They love saying plant medicine. Also, legally, I mean, legally, it's probably better to use the term plant medicine.

It is. It's just so pretentious. Because that can incorporate things that aren't going to get you stopped at any borders. Yeah, I think it's pretentious. Like, I get it. I understand why you're calling it a plant medicine. But, like, when I'm getting stoned, I'm not thinking, let me take my medicine. I'm thinking, let me get – I want to get fucking high, man.

I want to, like, get high, play with my synthesizers. When I'm, like – when I'm taking Robitussin, I'm thinking I'm taking medicine right now. It tastes like shit. It's going to make me fall asleep. Honestly, the reason I don't like the term plant medicine is because I think it, and forgive me out there, you guys, but I feel like it in some small way diminishes all the other reasons I want to take this fucking plant. When I'm like, and this is such a degraded thing to say so i'm sorry but remember when you used to be sponsored by fleshlights yes and you fucked a fleshlight right and it made you come but you weren't thinking as you're fucking the fleshlight

for the pure hedonic joy of like experiencing an orgasm with this weird dumb thing this tube you're not thinking to yourself i'm giving myself medicine now you're thinking i want to this is euphoric euphoric i want to come yeah the same way like with some of these substances that's heat i'm never getting high with you again man you're scaring me hide the fucking houseplants it's just it's just not. Sometimes it's a plant medicine. Sometimes it's a flesh light. So why do you get high?

Are you saying that sometimes you get high just because it feels good to be high? Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. Well, that's why God made nitrous oxide. Duncan, didn't you get your pot license with me from a black guy with dreadlocks who was a doctor who was calling it the medicine? Didn't you and I go to that place? I don't remember, Joe. I'm pretty sure.

This was in the early days when it was sketchy. It was sketchy. The grow-ups were sketchy. You didn't want people to know where your grow-up was. It wasn't legal across the board. You had to get a doctor's recommendation. I remember we walked into the doctor's office. Tell me if you remember this.

It was this cool black guy with dreadlocks, and he had one of those volcano vapor bags, but it was extra long. He made an extra long bag, like a normal volcano vapor bag is like that big. He had one that was like three feet. It was cartoonish. And as soon as he saw it, he was like, y'all look sick. Y'all look sick. Y'all need medicine.

Come on, man. Y'all need medicine. That's hilarious. And he was baked out of his fucking mind. He was a legitimate doctor and he had full on dreadlocks. No, that wasn't me. I wasn't with you. I would not forget that.

That was not me. But, you know, again, it is healing. I think it is a medicine and it can be obviously it's a medicine. It is a medicine. It heals people for sure. I just think it's not just a medicine. I think it's much more than that. Maybe we just don't have the language to describe what it is necessarily yet. But people aren't taking ayahuasca to feel good.

It's not like a recreational drug. Oh, yeah. You know what? I agree with you there. But I think that a lot of people are not necessarily taking ayahuasca because they want something more out of their life. They want some novelty. They want a heightened experience. Many people are taking ayahuasca because they're chronically fucking depressed and they're desperate and they need help. And the people who are administering it

that are legitimate, they're like doctors. Their understanding of these plants is astounding and deep. And I get all that. And so I'm certainly not opposed to that concept. I'm just saying the term plant medicine itself, it feels like somehow it's less romantic than I picture psychedelics. To me, psychedelics are a combination, a hedonic tool, a portal, a means of

communion, a spiritual practice, and also a medicine. But there are all those other things, too. I think it's more than a medicine. That's all. It's something bigger than medicine. Though all those things I just mentioned, you could call a medicine. It's just going to reduce the fun. Maybe there's an expansion of healing, too, that goes beyond the physical and into the

psychological and emotional and spiritual, which makes me sound like a hippie. But I just got schooled. I was using the term hallucinogens reflexively. And I had Jim Fadiman on my podcast, who's the microdosing guru. And he very quickly said, you know, that's got a lot of baggage because you don't actually hallucinate, you know, and it's like, well, you're right. Psychedelics is definitely a better word for it. It's a better term.

But what is happening when you're closing your eyes when you're doing DMT? I think it's entirely likely that we don't know and that you might be actually interfacing with some other place. But you're seeing things that seem like they must be hallucinations. It seems like something is interacting with your visual perception abilities where your eyes are seeing things that are impossible. Now, is that because you're actually there and you actually are experiencing these impossible things?

Or is it a trick that's happening with chemicals in your eyeballs and your brain and neurochemistry? And that's a question to be answered by people far smarter than us. And what is the difference between those two things? To what extent is your experience your reality? Yeah, that's the real question, right? We want to think that if you can't weigh something on a scale, if I can't bang on it with a hammer, if I can't draw on it with a marker, then it's not a real thing. But if you, I've always said this, like if you had an experience with god where you literally were transported into heaven and you had a communication

with god and then god gave you love and wisdom and then you came back down to earth into your body and you this actually did happen or you took a drug and the exact same experience took place in every way, shape, and form. The exact amount of time, the exact feeling, the exact message, the exact visuals, the exact reexamining of your life when you return. They're basically the same thing. I mean, unless you could get God in one of them tuna nets and bring him back there so I could prove that you had God and that you weren't just tripping your fucking balls off. You're basically telling me a story, bro. He's going to be pissed. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure that there's like a lot of scientific materialists hearing that and they're like, they're, they're, they're assholes. They're like squeezing into their body just in horror what you're saying, because it's like, they're, they're like're like well the difference is like when you have a dream and you have this incredible dream where a unicorn comes out of the clearing in the forest and like a rainbow shoots out of its horn and then it turns into a swarm of fireflies that spell i love you well that's like you know that's a really cool dream right but that's not

real that didn't happen and it's completely different than if you went into a clearing uh and and saw a fucking unicorn because if you can go in a clearing and see a fucking unicorn tell me where the clearing is let's get some nets but it's another thing too about well here's the thing about mushrooms right mushrooms enough stop and think about the people that wrote the bible stop think about the people that have discovered mushrooms a long time ago by trial and error or whatever the method was and imagine everybody deciding to get together in some field somewhere and you all take these mushrooms and you all literally go to heaven and you have this insane experience and then you all come back and then you have to write about it in your ancient tongue. You have to write this down in Aramaic on animal skins.

You roll these up and put them in clay jars in the caves of Qumran so that someone someday will know this and understand what you've been through. Well, when the drought came, the mushrooms went away and we were left with nothing but stories. I mean, it's a repeat. I mean, it's a repeat. The craziest thing about psychedelics, especially the natural ones that don't kill anybody, is that somehow or another somebody wound up bribing enough people and putting enough disinformation out that one of the most valuable things ever for human exploration, ever, way you view the world, giving you a reset, and doesn't kill anybody, it's illegal. It's illegal in societies that are oriented in a way that that would be corrosive. Yeah. Right?

And that's why getting back to- Where is it legal? Well, it's legal in Peru and Amazon. They just decriminalized LSD in, what is it, Sweden? Where did they do it? I think it was Sweden. Portugal. Everything's legal.

Yeah, Portugal's got it nailed. I think in Sweden they made a misdemeanor to- I can't remember. It's like somewhere recently they just made it a misdemeanor to get caught with acid. You know, mushrooms are on the books for the 2018 elections for California. Ah, yes. We have to organize. This is something we really should go after. You want to talk to me and people

oh God, that's what you guys are going to go after? Mushrooms? No, you really could change the world. And this is not bullshit. If we organize and we got a bunch of people to vote yes on recreational use of mushrooms for adults, I literally think we could change the world.

That would be the best. It could change the world because like medical marijuana, it will spread to recreational marijuana. Recreational mushrooms get passed. And if they do medical mushrooms get passed, then they can start doing tests on mushrooms like the John Hopkins psilocybin studies that they've done. You would see literally a change in the world. You would see a shift in global consciousness.

And that's not a ridiculous thing to say. No. Right? You know it's probably true. Well, that's why Tim Scully and his partner made all that orange sunshine acid. They weren't – I had him on my podcast. He's such a sweet guy. Not interested in money.

He could have made tons of money doing other things. He was this child genius. And he just made the acid and went to prison for it because he wanted to change the world. He really thought it would do it. You know who I've been talking to through email? Who? William Leonard Picard, that dude who got busted with all that acid, who's in jail now for multiple life sentences.

When they busted him, he's the guy who was the missile silo. Oh. Yeah. That's the guy that was like the missile silo that, Oh yeah. That was the guy that had like the girl that lived with them. They were selling ecstasy and someone tried to kill somebody or something. It's a crazy story. Someone got, the other guy got arrested. Right.

The girl rad the guy out. Holy shit. There's a great book he wrote. If you want to read a really trippy book, he wrote this book called the Rose of Paraclesis. And it's this really cool book and uh it's kind of like it's very intense to read and the way it's written is really nuts but um uh it's pretty interesting it's talking about sort of the life of uh it's the setup is a guy is going to talk to an LSD chemist and who is sort of explaining what it's like to have to be as secret as you have to be if you're manufacturing what he calls planetary doses of LSD, which is what they want. Planetary doses.

And that's what they wanted to do. That was the idea is like, let's manufacture planetary doses of this substance to upshift the consciousness of the planet. And one of the things he says, it's all very flowery and beautiful, but he's talking about the LSD chemist and people being like, this is a for-profit thing. And he's saying, no, you know, for us, money is just the ability to move around. And again, it's all very flowery writing, but he says something along the lines of when you're standing next to the forge of the gods, you stop thinking about money as meaning anything because you're breathing in the fumes. You're you're like constantly in contact with this like mind expanding substance. And good luck when you're mid, you know, 200 microgram trip. Good luck taking money seriously in that moment. You know i mean what is this fucking shit man this stuff's ridiculous yeah you know so so um yeah man there

was there still is i hope i i don't know if there is but there are people who are manufacturing psychedelics and putting their entire lives at risk not because they want to make money and it could be maybe they started off wanting to make money, but now they're manufacturing it because they know of all the ways to shift human consciousness. There's lots of ways theoretically to do it. Can you imagine being the person who's responsible for literally like a swimming pool filled with acid

that you know will change the world? Like you know right in front of you, if you could get this, there would be such a hiccup and shift of culture i mean i don't know which way it would go i don't know what would happen i don't know how much schizophrenia you would trigger i don't know how many people would blow fuses i don't know but i do know that something would happen and it would be you know about medieval times when this happened basically right yeah yeah yeah that's what they think happened with the salem witch trials that literally um the ergot and the rod because of an early frost some new fungus had grown on some of the bread and they were able to run tests on it and they believe

that it has lsd like property to it yeah yeah i mean that's the uh that's certainly one of the potential ways to like upshift consciousness through getting people having access to psychedelics in a consensual way. You know, like when you're fucking chomping polluted wheat and suddenly you think your neighbor's, you know, fucking Satan. Pretty scary. That's different than like deciding to take a psychedelic in a responsible way and then understanding a little bit more about how to be compassionate or something like that, you know? Or just seeing yourself for the first time. I mean, do you remember seeing yourself? The first time I took mushrooms, I saw myself and I was like, oh, that's who I am.

You know, like before you do it, it's like you have this idea looking in, out out and then you're separated from all of your life and you're like this uh entity observing from the outside your life yourself it's the first time i ever considered myself outside of myself dude this this is i'm sorry i always bring up ramdas on your podcast you love him i love him but one of the great holding on to his beads one of the great stories is one of the great stories is that uh uh you know to Neem Karoli Baba, his guru, twice. First time. And you can find a YouTube video of him telling this story. It's amazing.

He gives him like, you know, Owsley. Owsley, Kid Charlemagne has given him this incredible LSD. He says it's 300 microgram tablets made by one of the great lsd chemists of our time and he's going to india to give it to people and he gives it to he gives 600 micrograms to neem krollibaba now 600 micrograms is like fuck that fuck that fuck that that's just too much and neem krollibaba eats it but the way he's eating it is he's like doing this throwing it in his mouth and he eats it nothing happens so ram das gets back, but the way he's eating it is he's doing this, throwing it in his mouth. And he eats it and nothing happens.

So Ram Dass gets back to the United States. He's telling one of his scientist friends this story. And his scientist friend says, come on, dude. He didn't fucking eat it. He palmed it. He threw it over his shoulder. This story is bullshit. You got tricked.

You got hoodwinked by a fucking Baba out in India. They're all out there. They just want you to worship them. they want you to think they're powerful so like ramdas gets back to india the second time with acid again and this guy named corley baba says to him when you were here last time what did you give me and ramdas says well i gave you LSD. And he's like, did I take it? And Ram Dass is like, I don't know. And he's like, give me more, give me more. So he gives him more.

And he takes these pills, puts them in his mouth, is chewing them up in front of him and opens his mouth. His mouth is coated with tablet acid. He's taken, according to Ram Dass now, 900 mics of this stuff. acid he's taken according to ramdas now 900 mics of this stuff and so he goes under his blanket and starts shaking and i know people now have seen you saw this happen not just him telling the story who saw it happen and they said like the fucking blood rushed out of ramdas's face he's like oh my god oh my god what have i done what was i fucking thinking i just drove this dude great i essentially just gave an old man 900 micrograms of fucking acid in the hills of india and he's going to go fucking nuts and it's going to be my fault right and so like neem kholibaba

comes out of the blanket his eyes are back in his head he's like and then he just goes back to completely normal nothing no. No effect. And he says to him. So was he laughing? What? No, he was playing on a joke. He was playing a joke to fuck with him. Good, good.

But he was just fucking with him. But what he said to him was really interesting. What he said to him was this. He said they used to have something like this in the Indus Valley. And he said, this will bring you into the presence of Christ, but you have to leave. Better to become Christ than to hang out with him, is what he said. Which was, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was his, because their premise was, this is something.

Like, this is definitely a thing, for sure. But you could be that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was his – because their premise was this is something. Like this is definitely a thing for sure. But you can be that thing. Yeah, yeah. That's it. That was the – that's it. You can live there. Yeah. I think that we're entirely imprisoned by a wall of ideas and of behavior and of momentum and of culture and of conditioning.

And the way we look at the world is like in these pre-programmed trunks that's a car that's a building yeah i don't think necessarily we see it for what it really completely is which is some very strange temporary life that no one has really defined the meaning of it we're we're in infinity yeah hurling through space, surrounding a giant nuclear explosion, rocketing through the universe, and all of it trying to make sense of it all. And in between there, you've got cops killing people in hallways. You've got Black Lives Matter.

You've got every single possible variation from furries to people that it's their job to ticket street vendors who don't have the right... Yeah. The whole thing is this entire thing that we're experiencing is really psychedelic. If you weren't living life and if life made way more sense, if the world that we're normally accustomed to is much more controlled and two-dimensional and you could see the world that we live in for the very first time.

You'd be overwhelmed by how insane it is. You'd be overwhelmed by the possibilities. You'd be overwhelmed by the internet. You'd be overwhelmed by language. You'd be overwhelmed by feelings and emotions and all of it. If we weren't used to it, all of it would be like, whoa, this is crazy. Like nonverbal expression, the people, strip clubs, race cars, all of it. be like, whoa, this is crazy. Like nonverbal expression, strip clubs, race cars, all of it, planes. What?

They have metal tubes? They fly them through the air? The fuck? We're just so used to all of it that life itself is very psychedelic. It's just a psychedelic experience that we've grown deeply accustomed to. And I think the psychedelic experience that you have when you're on a heavy duty thing like a DMT, it's like you venture forth into a dimension that you don't have context for, but you feel familiar.

You feel familiar with it, but you don't have context for it. It doesn't fit into your normal patterns. But the normal patterns are just as bizarre, man. The normal patterns. We're taking liquid out of these clear plastic things that are made out of oil that somehow they figured out to turn into a clear plastic. And we fill it up with liquids and you drink them and you chuck these things and if you follow the path of this plastic bottle, it might eventually wind up in some seagull's

gut choking it to death in the middle of the ocean. You know? I mean, it's bizarre. But then also add to that that you're melting into time, too, while you drink from the bottle. You're not just not the insanity of this bottle. It's like this bottle's mid-process. It's somewhere from some batch of gooey shit to being a bottle to being in a seagull's gut. You're mid-process, too, honey.

You're getting fucking. He's not-process too honey you're getting funny you're getting dissolved you know what i mean you're mid-process and and like so is the sun and so is the fucking sun but you know the fun thing to do this is something that occurred to me when i was super high recently i was sitting in this fucking apartment and then suddenly it dawned on me like wait a minute how many other people are gonna fucking live here And then suddenly it dawned on me like, wait a minute, how many other people are going to fucking live here? And then I'm thinking like, wait, how many people have lived here?

And then I'm thinking, how many conversations have happened in this fucking apartment where everybody thought these were really serious conversations? Like, oh yeah, we're really getting into it, man. And then you realize, oh my God, I'm just a little,

I'm just a little Eddie of air spinning around in this fucking apartment. I'm going to leave and there's going to be other little Eddies of air that spin around in this apartment. The apartment's going to be around way longer than any of those other Eddies of air. So really, just to add to what you're saying, the beauty, the glorious nature of the universe versus our ability to comprehend it is that we are so fucking impermanent. We are so impermanent and we are so fluid and we're so melting into time. It's a really amazing thing to allow you. And you say we're used to it.

And sometimes I think, yeah, that must be it. But I think also there's a lot of we're ignoring it. We're numb to it. It's too much to deal with. We are overwhelmed. Yes. You know, you think about hunter-gatherers. Hunter-gatherers lived in the world that created them, the world that they evolved in, right?

So it's the same world your father and grandfather and great-grandfather, everybody lived in the same world. So the skills you're born learning, you grew up learning, those are the skills that are appropriate to your world. We're in a world now where even people who are alive are in a different world than the one they were born into yeah you know and where i grew up before the internet right this is all new yeah i was in my 30s when this shit started yeah it's nuts and but people younger people can't imagine what it was like to travel before there was email yeah so you were like 40 when the first iPhone came out, right? I was born in 62. Yeah. So the whole thing is, it's hard to imagine it being any different than it is. But if you really just think of what it is, just the discussions that we've had here today about

what the potential issues could be with AI, with advancing technology that has not been mapped out. It's not going to be regulated as far as how far innovation is allowed to continue. They're going to be so far ahead of the people that understand the regulations. Things are going to be coming out, like the internet itself. The internet came out itself before they really understood what the implications were. I mean, if the government could go back in time and pull the fucking, hey, hey, hey, pop, let's talk about this first. Pull that plug right out of the wall

before the internet went on AOL. Let's just talk about what we're going to do with this, and let's manage this, because let me show you what it could be. And then you see, 25 years later, people holding on their phones, walking into traffic, and getting hit by cars because they're so addicted to checking their Facebook

feed. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's nuts. Yeah, imagine if a drug could do what cell phones do. Imagine if a drug came along and the drug made you stare at your hands all day. Everybody was just staring at their hands. It's like praying. Yeah, the only difference is you are getting some information. But if there was a drug that came along

that made you want to stare at your hands like 90% of the day. Yeah. Like. If you're playing video games, you're not getting any information. That's true. Yeah. Not even porn.

Well, they say that video games in some ways are good for the psyche, though. Good for the psyche. Fuck yeah, they are. They make great drone pilots. Yeah. You know what's not good for my psyche? Getting my fucking ass kicked at hearthstone with this new expansion nerd call out anyway hey but very quickly though the thing you're talking about

the um the uh the the concept of like a drug that makes you stare at your hands i think our thoughts at one point like the ability to think the way we do was a new technology that started emerging and so like when you're caught up in your thoughts what's the difference between that and looking at your fucking cell phone like when you get obsessed with your thoughts and like because i've noticed like whenever i get really caught up in a flurry of thoughts and i allow myself to really get lost in the thing you're talking about the simulation the projection into the future you're 17 fights ahead with this person because they said this thing that they're never going to say. I think that's a form of looking at your cell phone, only it's the internal simulator inside the

neurocomputer that your brain is. But I don't think it's too much different. I think both of these things are just different attempts to try to evade the present moment because the present moment is so overwhelmingly, heartbreakingly beautiful that we'd rather have our faces buried in our phones or in our thoughts i think that's the problem is the more that we get into the moment it's fucking amazing here it is amazing but i don't think that's what's i don't think it's the fact that it's beautiful that's making people be distracted i think it's overwhelming the amount of data that's coming our way and i don't think we're designed for it i think that's one of the things that gets people at peace if you're on a hike in nature this is all stuff where your brain has a hole for it

we're talking about keys like keys that fit in the slots those keys just fit in there's the tree there's the bird oh look at that eagle holy shit wow look the salmon are jumping that's there's keys for that there's there's receptors for all that stuff when you're walking down fucking santa monica boulevard and there's people honking their horn and different music is playing in different cars and there's smells that aren't natural and there's so much data coming your way it's overwhelming and then you're thinking about your work and your job your boss keeps giving you massages and you're like this creepy cugs you know you just just want to when it gets back to that natural unnatural conversation we began with right because you know you're as you're describing the metaphor of receptor cells or something for these different inputs but another way to look at it is

your body has expectations right your eyes are designed with an expectation of certain wavelengths of light that are relevant to this animal, right? Those are like the reds of the berries are relevant because now they're ripe and blood is shocking and all that. The ears are expectations of certain decibel levels that would be important for this animal to hear. Rabbits have totally different setup. So your whole body, your lungs are an expectation of oxygen-rich air, everything. And when you take that animal out, it's confused because what it's expecting isn't there. So it's not just metaphorical.

It's actually physiologically. We're living in a world that our bodies don't expect. God damn, what a great way to end this thing. After sitting for five hours. Fuck, this was fun. Jesus Christ. Thank you, guys. Let's do this more often.

Make these easy. We can all just, we'll triple cast it. You want to do that? We'll all three put it out. Sure. We'll do that all the time. Let's do it. I think that's probably the best way to do it all the time. Whatever works. I'd love that.

I think that's probably the best way to do it all the time. Let's do it. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So that way nobody has to miss any of them or not subscribe. And you guys are both here now. Yes.

You're here? Yes. You're moving back. I'm back. You're done. And you're here. Unless I get kidnapped in Peru. Try to do these a little bit.

Let's do it. Let's do them more often. I'm up for it. They're some of my favorite podcasts ever. Thanks, Joe. That Chris Ryan on Twitter. And what is the Instagram? Same.

Same. That Chris Ryan. And Duncan Trussell on everything. At Duncan Trussell on Twitter. All right, fuckers. Thank you. Bye. Yay.

Ah, cool.