The Joe Rogan Experience - #1052 - Mick West

Episode Date: December 12, 2017

Mick West is a game programmer, writer, and debunker. Currently runs a few websites including http://MetaBunk.org and http://ContrailScience.com.

4, 3, 2, 1... Yes, Mick West, we are live! Finally! Are you ready? I am ready, let's do it. Dude, you're getting a lot of heat online from all these... It's all the Flat Earth people and the Chemtrail people. Those are the people that are mad at you the most.

Yeah, that's my specialty. Chemtrails and Flat Earth. Yeah, well, that's... I asked people... This is hilarious. I asked people online. I said, Mick West from Metabunk is going to be here. What would you like me to debunk? And one of the first ones was chemtrails because you cannot debunk it. It's real.

Dun, dun, dun. I would say this to anybody who thinks that. That has got to be the most ineffective government program of all time. Like you ask people what they're doing by spraying things in the sky, and the number one thing they'll say is like weather control. Weather control is one. Well, they don't have any fucking control of the weather because if they did, they'd make it rain all over Santa Barbara

and stop these fires. I mean, there's hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage going on right now. There's a fire that's bigger than the city of Washington DC. They think they're making those fires. They think that that's part of the conspiracy. Anything that happens is always part of the conspiracy. What do you think it is? Like what is what is it with conspiracies? Like why are they so attractive to people there's something going on with people right yeah i think yeah i've been looking into this a lot uh and you have especially since you're a government shell well i'm doing research with a book i'm writing

which is called escaping the rabbit hole and it's about how people get into the rabbit hole and how people get out of the rabbit hole so the whole thing is about the rabbit hole which is something basically people get sucked into and i think people do a lot of research into the reasons behind people getting into conspiracy theories like the psychological reasons and the uh personality reasons and things like that but i think most conspiracy theorists are just regular people They're just ordinary people who get sucked into something and why do you think that is just from talking to them? They tell me like they're the origin stories is the origin stories Essentially and they tell me what happened to them when they got into conspiracy theories and it nearly always starts with them looking at some video I now know yes, that's with them looking at some video right now nowadays it starts with them looking at some video

and then they just get sucked in yeah and then they start looking at another video and another video and another video and facebook and youtube is feeding them these videos because once you start going down that road you just can't you can't uh change your trajectory right Right. It's hard to treat. I mean, YouTube, since they instigated this autoplay thing or instituted this autoplay thing where the next video plays immediately and they're all related, I think that's definitely been a thing with people. And also like the suggestions on the right-hand side

if you're watching one video on a particular subject. Yeah, I was doing some experiments with that. I set up like a completely blank YouTube account and I would just go in there and type in one thing like contrails. And, of course, when you look at contrails on YouTube, like half the videos you're going to get are going to be chemtrail videos. Right. And so if the first video you click on is a chemtrail video, then that just sets you down that road. Well, I remember this was in the days, I think before YouTube, this was in the days when maybe YouTube was around, but it just wasn't that popular.

I remember me and my friend Eddie were high as fuck and we're talking to my neighbor and there was some plane that was flying over and we were wondering why the clouds coming from behind this plane stood so long. So I asked him. I used to have this neighbor. I used to call him Bling Bling because Bling Bling was incapable of talking about anything other than objects. Like, oh, he talked about, that's a nice car. Is that a new car?

Where'd you get that watch? Like, that was Bling Bling. All Bling Bling wanted to talk about is, like, material possessions. So he and I were parked in front of his, I was saying hi to him and i said hey man do you remember clouds like sticking around in the sky that long and he's like um no i don't know is that a new truck and like i just remember how ironic it was because i had told eddie about bling bling you know they're like this is all this guy cares about and wants to talk about and then he did that while we're out there but i remember thinking man how weird would it be if all of a sudden clouds from jet engines

started appearing and it just appeared right before our eyes and we hadn't noticed it. But I wasn't sold. It didn't make any sense to me because my thought on it was the amount of people that had to be involved. You're talking about all these different airplanes. Get all these people to keep their mouth shut. These are pilots, right? So they're not making shit tons of money, and they live here too.

That's the other thing. If they're actually spraying something in the sky, they live here too. What are they, spraying themselves? Well, the theory now is that it's basically the power elite in the country is doing these chemtrails as a kind of last ditch attempt to maintain power before the entire world collapses into chaos. So they think it's kind of like a desperate situation. A power grab. Well, not exactly. They're hanging on to have their kind of last hurrah. Really, they feel like the end of the world is nigh, like there's about to be this

environmental disaster and the chemtrails are the only of the world is nigh. Like, you know, there's about to be this environmental disaster, and the chemtrails are the only thing that is holding everything together. That's the thing that you get if you go to, like, you know, Geoengineering Watch, that Dane Whittington guy. He's basically an apocalyptic prophet now. He's basically preaching about how everything is going to end soon, and the chemtrails are the only thing that's stopping it You know they're also making it worse So he's kind of saying like you know the chemtrails are helping, but we've got to stop them

Otherwise, they'll make it even worse, but we're pretty much all gonna die either way Yeah, there's a lot of money, and we're gonna die. There's a lot of people that love that that that trope It's just like something that gets carted out constantly throughout history because it's true. You are going to die. It's like when are you going to die? You don't know. So because you don't know you're freaking out. Like is it going to be a car accident? Is it going to be a fire? Is it going to be

an earthquake? Is it going to be a slow aging death? Or is it going to be the chem trails? Dun dun dun. Yeah I think that type of thing like fear of dying is one of those fundamental things. Right. That every human is hardwired with certain things that happens in their brain without them thinking about. And fear of dying and fear of other things, fear of wolves or whatever, something that's hardwired.

And that's the type of thing that leads to different types of thinking that you end up being a conspiracy theorist, in part because your brain is wired that way. You had a great quote about chemtrails when we did that television show together. You said chemtrails are like the training wheels for conspiracy theorists. Yeah. Because they're like there. They're right above your head, and you see them right there. For people who don't understand why jets produce clouds, please explain that because it's very simple.

It is very simple. Jet engines have water in their exhaust. If you look at a car on a cold day and you see the exhaust coming out of the tailpipe, you'll see like a cloud of condensation sometimes and you'll see some water coming out. And the exact same thing happens with jet engines. And when that exhaust hits the cold air, it condenses, it freezes, it makes a cloud. And contrails are essentially clouds. They're exactly the same physically as a regular cirrus cloud.

And it's dependent upon the amount of moisture in the atmosphere, and you can actually monitor it online. upon the amount of moisture in the atmosphere, and you can actually monitor it online. NASA actually has a website that will show you, and I believe it's set up for pilots, right? Is that what the air traffic people? NASA actually has a contrail forecasting site, which isn't really for pilots or anything. It's just part of their contrail research. But yeah, they have a site where it all predicts where the contrails are going to be.

But you can do it yourself. You just got to look at the relative humidity at a certain altitude. There's lots of different sites you can go to. I've got a whole bunch of them listed on Metabunk. And just like the clouds vary in the sky, the amount of moisture varies in the sky as well, which is one of the reasons why you will see a jet pass through one area and you will see a contrail. And then it almost looks like they shut the contrail jets off, and then you see it pick up maybe a couple hundred yards later.

Yeah, and that's, when you say like a cloud, it's really exactly the same as a cloud. If you look at any picture of a cloudy day and then just remove all the clouds, but they're still there as invisible clouds, then when the plane comes along, it's almost like the plane is this magic pen revealing these invisible clouds because all a cloud is is a region of the sky where the humidity is above a certain level. So you know that the humidity is pretty patchy across the sky

because there's a cloud here and right next to it there's no cloud. So where the cloud is, it's high humidity. Where the cloud isn't, it's low humidity. But if both of those were just lowered like 10%, then you get no clouds at all. Then a plane comes along. It raises the humidity in the cloud area and in the non-cloud area. But this area, because it was a bit higher, you get a trail forming. In this area, you get no trail forming.

So it's exactly the same as invisible clouds. Yeah, and for people that are watching it and you're looking up, you think they're spraying something if you're conspiracy minded. And because of a lot of the videos that are out there, in particular, two that were recommended to me are what in the hell are they spraying? Right. So I got to meet with that guy that made those documentaries. And right away I knew something was wrong. Like he's either on Adderall or something. He's just like real edgy and speeded up and just an odd guy,

which is like a lot of people that are conspiratorially minded. They seem to be like very nervous and agitated. And when we went over like why he think one of the things he was talking about was the soil samples and water samples and that um they've detected all this aluminum and barium in water and particularly aluminum and he's like showing me all these results that he had but even on the very results that he showed me it said sludge like he had sent them out for testing and i said well what did, what did you send? And he goes, well, I sent some water from these ponds. And I said, but it says sludge on your testing. And he said, no, but it was water.

I go, okay, but the lab said it's sludge. I go, what is sludge? He goes, well, I don't know what sludge is exactly. I go, well, let's look. Sludge is a combination of water and dirt. Okay, so you sent water and dirt. So do you know that aluminum is one of the most common metals on earth? And you could basically scoop up a patch of dirt pretty much anywhere and find a bunch of aluminum in it. It's really, really common in trace amounts. I go, so what you did is you tested dirt and it tested positive for being dirt. I mean, that's exactly what it is. And the guy was kind of freaking out. I'm like, how did you, how did you not put this together yourself? Like if you're the guy who's making this video and

you're trying to find a reason why you could, you know, some facts that you could throw at people, we could say, Hey, look, the government is definitely spraying things in the sky they're spraying aluminum look we found the aluminum and we found it in the water it's in your water supply it's going to get in your body it's going to poison you look we found it in the water how did he how the fuck did he not look at it himself is what i was thinking and me when me and him were having this conversation i realized like you have these people that go down they're not open-minded in regards to these subjects. They go down a very narrow road, and that road is the government is doing something to me. I need to find out what it is.

Yeah, and they're really motivated to actually find evidence. Yes. So they're trying to find something, and actually trying to find an alternative explanation isn't really that attractive to them. So they find aluminum in the water or in the soil or whatever. And then they glom on to that as being, you know, evidence of geoengineering. And that's great for them because they can just find loads and loads of samples of soil. And that's something that gets repeated online. That very fact over and over again, the aluminum that they found in the water. It's one of the core tenets.

It's one of the pillars of the chemtrail thing. There's like four or five different things. In every conspiracy theory, there are these core beliefs that 99% of the people who believe in the theory have. One core belief is that you work for the government. Yeah. That is a core belief. Mick is a retired video game creator.

You could find that out. Made video games. That's right. Tony Hawk. Yeah. Made a shit ton of money and decided to debunk dorks. Yeah, I didn't start out. And I wouldn't refer to them as dorks.

I'm saying they're dorks. They're dorks if they don't believe. This is the problem. You're not a dorks. They're dorks if they don't believe. This is the problem. You're not a dork if you fall for something. You're a dork if you fall for something you don't believe the science that shows that it's impossible, that it's not real. If you were spraying aluminum in the sky, folks, it would look like aluminum, you dummy. It wouldn't look like a cloud. It wouldn't dissipate.

It would look like a thin mist, essentially. Yeah, and metal is not. It's heavier than fucking air and vapor. It's not going to just sit up there like that. It would be a very different experience. It would slowly settle to the ground and wouldn't look like a cloud. And there's no reason to do it. There's no

benefit whatsoever. There's no scientific evidence ever uncovered ever that there's any benefit for anybody of spraying aluminum over people. It's just, it's just, it's a waste of aluminum. That's the thing, even with the whole geoengineering field, there's really no solid evidence that it will work. We don't know what the side effects will be. We don't know how much we're going to, we would need to spray. And we don't know like, you know, if, if, you know, when we stop doing it, doing it, will the world bounce back in a terrible way and it'll be a big disaster?

Well, that's an interesting thing because one of the reasons why contrails are interesting to study is because they actually do have an effect on the temperature of the earth. And this is something that we found out after 9-11. When September 11th happened in 2001, it was the big disaster. There was a shutdown on all flights in the United States. And when they did that, the temperature changed. Because these clouds literally do provide a cover. And do they act as an insulator or an escalator?

They essentially act as an insulator or an escalator? They essentially act as an insulator. They block incoming radiation during the day, and they block outgoing radiation at night. But the net effect is that they actually block more outgoing radiation than they do incoming radiation. So if planes didn't fly at night, then you would cool the Earth down. You'd have to stop flying quite a bit before night time. So if all the flights in the world were between like 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. local time, then you could actually cool the world down by just not having any flights at night because it's the night flights that have this really big kind of blanketing effect

that stop the outgoing radiation. So the night flights actually heat the world up. Yes, they do. They act like a blanket. You know how it's warmer on a, well, in a cloudy day, like it doesn't get as cold at night. You know, deserts get really cold at night because there's nothing over them.

They don't have any cover. That's one of the reasons. But yeah, the contrails will actually uh warm the planet because the the amount of outgoing radiation they block is just way higher just because of the the wavelengths and the the size of the particles and whatnot so that that's something to be concerned about and that's something that people are legitimately monitoring um what people need to understand is just because you feel like when you look up in the sky and you see these crisscross patterns that they're spraying you.

No one's spraying you. This is just a natural reaction to jet engines and condensation in the atmosphere and the heat and the moisture of the jet engine. That's all it is. They are actually talking about a way of using contrails for a kind of geoengineering. And this is something that people often get confused about because you see these two words together, contrails and geoengineering, and they think, oh, that's chemtrails.

But what they're trying to do is use air traffic control and computers and weather forecasting to make it so the planes don't fly through the contrail-forming areas when they would make contrails at night and make it so they do fly through contrail-forming areas when it would make contrails at night and make it so they do fly through contrail forming areas when it make with make contrails during the day so this is a conversation they're having or something that's actually being it's not something that they're they've actually done right it's something that they can research fairly easily so if they were considering trying to heat up the atmosphere or heat up the earth at night, they would just fly over these moisture-rich areas. And if they weren't, they would avoid them. Yeah.

But the goal, obviously, is to combat climate change, global warming. Right. And cool the Earth down. So a relatively cheap way of doing that, to a degree, is to have these planes be controlled by computers. is to have these planes be controlled by computers. And it kind of increases fuel costs for the airline by about 2% or 3% because they have to make very deviations, sometimes in height and sometimes in direction. But it could actually have a significant effect on the Earth's climate

if we had the entire world's airline fleets all in this program where they would fly, making controls where they were needed and not making controls where they were not needed. And how exactly are they monitoring the moisture content of the atmosphere? Like what are they using to do that? Satellites? Yeah, it's a combination of things. They use sounding balloons, which are these weather balloons, basically, which got mistaken for UFOs quite a lot.

And they use satellites and they use planes sensing the environment when they're flying through it. And they use all these inputs and it goes into a big computer model, which basically predicts what the humidity will be at any particular point. It's basically a big weather forecast for the upper atmosphere. Now, Jamie, Google CIA admits geoengineering, because this one that this this chemtrail believers constantly bring up it was a conversation that some guy in the CIA had at some meeting where they were discussing potential future ways to use geoengineering like let's play with this guy. CI director John Brennan. Go ahead. Often referred to collectively as geoengineering that potentially could help reverse the warming

effects of global climate change. One that has gained my personal attention is stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI, a method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun's heat in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do. An SAI program could limit global temperature increases, reducing some risks associated with higher temperatures and providing the world economy additional time. Why is that freaking out with the image? Keep changing back to... It's a YouTube glitch. I have to refresh the page. I didn't want to restart the video. Oh, just go ahead. Because otherwise I'm going to have epilepsy. Well, yeah. Hold on. Go ahead. Just take it from where he left it and hear what else he has to say.

...injection, or SAI, a method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun's heat in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do. heat, in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do. An SAI program could limit global temperature increases, reducing some risks associated with higher temperatures and providing the world economy additional time to transition from fossil fuels. This process is also relatively inexpensive. The National Research Council estimates that a fully deployed SAI program would cost about $10 billion yearly. As promising as it may be, moving forward on SAI would also raise a number of challenges

for our government and for the international community. On the technical side, greenhouse gas emission reductions would still have to accompany SAI to address other climate change effects such as ocean acidification because SAI alone would not remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. On the geopolitical side, the technology's potential to alter weather patterns and benefit certain regions of the world at the expense of other regions could trigger sharp opposition by some nations. Others might seize on SAI's benefits and back away from their commitment to carbon

dioxide reductions. And as with other breakthrough technologies, global norms and standards are lacking to guide the deployment and implementation of SAI and others. We get it. So, this guy is talking about an idea

of spraying things in the atmosphere to do something. Yeah, he's talking about an idea of spraying things in the atmosphere to do something. Yeah, he's talking about geoengineering, spraying stuff from planes. He's talking about reflective particles, right? Isn't that the idea? Yeah, you spray sulfur dioxide, which isn't exactly a reflective particle, but it acts as a nucleus for upper atmosphere clouds and things like that. It's basically, like he said, the same thing a volcano does. When a volcano erupts, it spews a whole bunch of sulfur dioxide

and various other things into the upper atmosphere, and that creates haze, basically, which blocks the incoming radiation and cools things down. Every time a big volcano goes off, you see a little dip in the earth's temperature because of this this blocking effect that it has and so the theory is that you could do something similar and you could do it by spraying things out of planes but he's talking about things that we might do in the future you see every every you know he uses the future tense like we could do

this he might he may do this the effects might be this. And he's talking about the possible geopolitical impacts of it, which are very significant. Like if one country is going to be spraying something that would cause, say, the monsoons to double in intensity or to halve in intensity in India, that could cause the deaths of millions of people from famine and flooding. This is what people think has happened with the big hurricanes in the United States. Yeah, they do think that.

But there's no evidence of that actually happening. The pattern of hurricanes is pretty much the same as it's been for a long time. When you look at the statistical variations, there's maybe a bit more intense because the oceans are a bit warmer. People think that hurricanes have been steered. a bit more intense because the oceans are a bit warmer. But it's not, you know, there's no, people think that hurricanes have been steered. Yeah, I've heard that one, through HAARP. Yeah, through HAARP, but that doesn't make any sense.

But there are ways that do make sense, which are cloud seeding. Like if you do lots of seeding of the hurricane on one side, you could perhaps reduce the amount of humidity, of moisture on that side. And so it will kind of turn a little bit more and move over to one side. So there are ways that might work. And they did actually experiment with this, I think, back in the 70s or so. There was one experiment where they tried seeding a hurricane, but it ended up going somewhere else other than where they intended it, and it destroyed a whole bunch of houses.

The problem with having a video like this is that this guy is admitting that they have looked into potentially spraying things into the air. No one has ever denied that. We've been looking into geoengineering for decades. It's been proposed in some sense for over 100 years. In a serious sense, since the 70s. The other problem is he gave it initials. S-A-I.

That's a problem. People love initials. They love it. It makes them super excited. Well, most people use the SRM, which is the Solar Radiation Management. Oh, that's a good one too. Yeah. SRM, SAI, CIA, DEA.

People love those. That sounds more scary than SRM, I think. Strategic aerosol injection. Yeah. But there would have to be studies. Oh, there are studies. There are lots of studies going on right now. People are studying geoengineering.

There's actually lots of people who specialize in geoengineering. What I was going to say is those studies would have to be available for people to understand, but nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to go in and look. You want to look up and see the thing behind the jet and go, they started it, they're spraying, there's patchwork, look, there's haze all over us, which it does happen. You can have a clear sky and you

have the right conditions and a bunch of jets fly over and all of a sudden it's very hazy. It does. It does. And that's the type of thing that's been reported since the second world war or even earlier. The first contrails that were spreading out into clouds were reported in like the 1920s. Yeah. Well, I took some of these photos and I put them up, I think the last time we had this conversation where you could see them from World War II. You can see these jets and you see the contrails behind the jets. And the, but some people, that's the other thing. It's like contrails dissipate, but chemtrails stay.

Well, that's not, you misunderstand what happens. The contrails stay if there's more moisture. If the conditions are correct, they stay. And if the conditions are barely enough to make a contrail, they dissipate fairly rapidly. With that thing, they kind of use circular logic. And if you ask them, why do you think that contrails dissipate and chemtrails

stay? And they say, because I can see it. If you look up, you look at the chemtrails, and they're staying, and the contrails are dissipating. I said, how do you know which is which? Well, the contrails are the ones that dissipate. So they don't have any basis for their belief. And the one thing I do, which you've probably seen, is that video where I go through all my old books on the weather

and I look up in each one of them the section on contrails and I read the bit in it that says contrails persist for hours sometimes and contrails sometimes spread out to cover the sky contrails like last a long time and i go back from these books from the 1990s all the way back to the 1950s and i've got books in the 1940s and if you show people these actual books it's a really powerful way of like getting through to them because they've just assumed that contrails can't persist right and they've assumed that this is a recent phenomenon because they don't remember it because they weren't paying attention yeah well people don't notice them until you know 90%

of the people don't notice contrails until they hear about the chemtrail conspiracy theory a lot of people they will hear about it and then the same day they will go outside and look at the sky and then that's the first time they've ever noticed these contrails. Even the people who are like the high ups in the chemtrail movement, they only notice them when they hear about the theory. There's a guy, I can't remember his name now, but he lives in San Diego, and he never noticed them until like 2014. And he lived there all his life. And now he's publishing scientific papers. J. Marvin Herndon is his name. He's publishing these scientific papers about how they're spraying coal ash,

the waste products of burning coal in power stations, they're spraying that in the upper atmosphere. He's actually got like three or four papers published in these kind of pay-to uh scientific journals and that's kind of becoming a bit of a problem like like this this thing with brennan the caa guy people bring that up all the time all the time all the time and you just have to explain it to them again i don't know he's talking about the future use uh and then this guy, he's talking about possible solutions for global warming.

Now, the problem with it is when he's talking about possible solutions and then people look up and they see these actual clouds that are created by jets, they assume this has already begun that the government would not tell us about it. Right, and that's because

they don't understand contrails. The difference between contrails and what this stuff would look like. Yeah, yeah. And just the fact that contrails look like this. They heard that contrails shouldn't persist. Well, another thing that drove me crazy is, like, if you really want to worry about health consequences of these things that you see in the sky, there's a reality to it.

The reality is they're burning jet fuel. Oh, yeah. And all the people that live around the airports get sick. There's high levels of respiratory illness that are associated with living within a certain distance of airplanes or airports. If you're in a congested hub like LAX, don't buy a house like a block away. It's not good for your health. They're burning jet fuel that's going to get in the air.

It's pollution. It's pollution. From a car. Yeah. But it's even more intense because you're having thousands and thousands of giant planes. Even small airports like Santa Monica, they have problems with that. If you look at the houses just at the end of Santa Monica runway, which is right next to the end of the runway there's these houses. They did

tests for various metal particulates and stuff and the ones right by the end of the runway, they get pollution. Of course. It's very real problems. That's the real problem now. And that's a real one. Now imagine if that was something that the government was engineering. If they really were engineering, spraying

things to give people respiratory illness so that the government was engineering. If they really were engineering, spraying things to give people respiratory illness so that the hospital industry could profit, whatever the reason was, that would be something that people could be concerned with. Like, look, there's a real connection between airplanes and illnesses, but it's not spraying stuff in the sky. That's not real. I understand people love these things and I understand people don't trust the government. Those things completely make sense to me. But you've got to pay attention to what's real and what's not real. Because as soon as you don't do that, then all the real stuff that the government does, all the real stuff the government does, like these fucking roads they're going to build in Alaska right now

through dangerous areas where they have salmon rivers, they're going to build in Alaska right now through dangerous areas where they have salmon rivers. They're going to start doing mining. I think, what is the Pebble Beach? Is that the, no. What is the big mining issue in Alaska that is going on right now? Bristol Bay. Bristol Bay? That's it.

Why don't I, Pebble and Bristol. I don't know how I got those two confused. Pebble Mine? Pebble Mine. That's it. Why don't I... Pebble and Bristol. I don't know how I got those two confused. Pebble Mine. Pebble Mine. That's what it is. And they want to do this, and it's near a major salmon area where these salmon use this river, and people that live there are terrified that they're going to do this. This is a real for-profit thing where they're putting the environment at risk. That's real. So this is

something that people should be concerned about, but they're not. They don't get concerned about those kinds of things. Environmentalists do and conservationists do, but the conspiracy theorists don't. They don't look at that and go, hey, here's clear evidence of the government being in bed with enormous businesses that stand to profit spectacular amounts of money from risking the environment and risking these very delicate salmon fisheries. Yeah. And that type of thing is the exact reason why I still spend so much time debunking stuff like conspiracy theories. Because I think that so much of conspiracy theories, the result, the effect of conspiracy theories is distracting people from real issues. From real issues.

Yes, I agree. Like you say with the airplane stuff, like if people are thinking they're spraying chemicals out of the back of the airplanes, they're just not going to be worried about regular pollution. And if they think that they're controlling the climate already, they're not going to worry about You know any type of global warming so let's find one that we disagree on I think you believe the official story of the JFK assassination. Do you more or less? Yeah, more or less. Yes, my belief and this is this Changes over time. I think that Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it

I think he was a part of it, but I think there Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it. I think he was a part of it, but I think there were multiple people that were in on it. That's what I believe. Do you think the multiple shooters? Yes. And one of the reasons why I believe that is because of the formation of the single bullet theory. And the single bullet theory was formed because the fact that they had to account for one bullet that hit the underpass, ricocheted off, and put some man in the hospital. And that before that, they did not have an explanation for why all of these bullet holes, all these wounds, were in all these different people's bodies.

The other reason why I'm inclined to believe there's a conspiracy was the fact that they found that bullet on Connolly's gurney when they brought him into the hospital. It's too convenient, and the bullet itself is fairly pristine. Now, knowing as much as I know about bullets from personal experience of hunting, you can't hit anything with a bullet. I pulled a lot of bullets out of animals. When you shoot an animal and you hit bone, those bullets, they distort brutally. I mean, they don't look like that. If they go through two people and hit all sorts of bone, that's the bullet that came out of Connolly's body or Connolly's gurney, excuse me. And that's the bullet that they're attributing to this single bullet theory. If you look at the path of the bullet that goes through Connolly or goes through Kennedy and then goes through Connolly, that to me

is not unbelievable. It's not unbelievable. That one is. That, to me, is not unbelievable. It's not unbelievable. That one is. You've got to look at the other one. But even that one. But no, no, see what I'm saying? Even that one is not unbelievable. It is believable to me because I know that bullets do strange things when they hit things.

Right, but you've got to combine that with the fact that the bullet came out fairly pristine, which means it didn't actually go through a kind of a bouncy path like that. It went through a straight path. bouncy path like that. Right. It went through a straight path. This diagram is from... A conspiracy theorist book. Essentially. But the thing is... There are other diagrams

that will show the actual path with him. They've got the butts there on the same level, and you know that Kennedy was actually sitting... He was elevated. Yes. So see if we can find one that has the actual seating arrangement or more accurate seating. The one right there with the red line in the right-hand side, the one on the right-hand side, that's a more accurate.

From above, yeah. Yeah, from above. Yeah. There's also the fact that there was particles, there was more metallic particles from the bullets, more fragments from the bullet in Connolly's body then we're missing from the bullet I do not believe that was the bullet and I think that that is a very reasonable assumption Well, you know what you should do You should get one of those guns get the same bullets get some ballistic dummies with some bones inside and start shooting

They've already done that. Yeah, they've Penn & Teller did that. Yeah, but some people have done it and they have found Pretty close to what actually happened. No, but some people have done it and they have found pretty close to what actually happened. No, they didn't. Within the round. No, no. Every bullet that hit bone got distorted. That's just what happens. When you shoot those bullets into water or you shoot those bullets into like fluff or

something like that that doesn't have a lot of impact to slow the bullet down, then you get a bullet that looks like that. If you shoot a bullet into bone, they distort wildly. But the bone was the last thing that it hit. But it doesn't matter. It's still hitting bone. But it stopped at that point.

Yeah, but didn't it hit bone in Kennedy's body as well? Went through his neck and it's over. The odds of it hitting only soft tissue and it's going to go through his neck and it came out here that it didn't clip one of his vertebrae or something like that i don't think that's real yeah i think also there's a difference between and this is fact from david lifton's book best evidence which was a book by an accountant who went over um the warren commission report and found all these factual inaccuracies and all these contradictions. He found that there was a difference in the autopsy report at Bethesda, Maryland,

the Bethesda Naval Hospital, versus what they had reported on the scene in Dallas. The first doctors that got a hold of Kennedy's body in Dallas before they flew him to Bethesda said that the hole in his neck was an entry wound. When they got to Maryland, they changed that to a tracheotomy hole. They changed the impact, and they said that this was not an impact from a bullet, that it was from something else.

Yeah, someone said they enlarged the hole to insert a tracheotomy tube. Yeah, someone said they enlarged the hole to insert a trach tube. Yeah, well, I think, well, there was also a lot of pressure on these people to try to wrap this up nice and tight and say that Lee Harvey Oswald was the shooter. There was, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's this big thing about the CIA inventing the FBI. The FBI, well, inventing the term conspiracy theory was a CIA thing. I think it was the CIA. Yeah. And this was a couple of years after the assassination. There was a memo that went out where they were concerned about all these conspiracy theories that were coming out. And they used the should try to basically debunk them and make the people who spread them around look like conspiracy theorists, basically.

So the theory is that the term conspiracy theory came from that particular memo. But that memo, they never actually encouraged people to use the term. people to use the term. But yeah, there was a huge concern from the CIA that they would be, they would lose the trust of the public if people, everybody started believing that it was a conspiracy theory. At least that's what they said. I mean, maybe there is a conspiracy and maybe they're just trying to cover it up. But did you see the most recent dump of information on the Kennedy assassination that Jack Ruby had stated to people that before the day of the Kennedy assassination, keep an eye out today, there's going to be fireworks?

I didn't see that. Yeah, there's Jack Ruby who eventually wound up shooting Lee Harvey Oswald in front of the police officers. Yeah. You know, something like that. You know, there's no... He's dead, obviously,

so you can't ask him what he actually meant. And things like that take on a special significance after an event. True. Whereas he could be just talking about, like, he was going to go visit his ex-wife or something, or he was going to go to the bar, or he was looking forward to shouting at the parade or whatever. Right. Could have been nothing.

Yeah, people say things. And, you know, after something happens, people go back and they look at everything that happened, and then they say, well, that sounds like something significant. Right. Like with the Vegas shooting, there was a woman walking around the crowd in the Vegas shooting saying, you know, you're all going to die. This is what some people said. And this was like half an hour before the actual shooting itself.

So people take that event and then, you know, since a lot of people did die, they think that this woman actually knew what was going to happen and she was trying to warn people. Right. But you also get crazy people wandering around saying things all the time, you know, especially in Vegas. Yeah. And the problem with you're all going to die is that that's a common one. Some guy was yelling that we took pictures of him when we were in Vegas long before the shooting. It was a few months ago. We were standing. No, we were in a car.

He was standing on the corner, and he had a stack of signs. I put it up on my Instagram. I know I did because there was stacks of signs. He had not just one sign. He had a long totem pole of signs with all these different things. And I was taking photos of it, and the guy was yelling out, everyone's going to die. I mean, he was yelling it out, that, you know, God's wrath and all this, you know, crazy religious stuff. That's a common thing for crazy people to shout. Yes.

That's what they do shout. It's not like this woman was saying specifically, someone is going to shoot everyone at this concert. Get out of here. This is a dangerous area if she was trying to warn them she would have been a bit more specific yes very specific right if she knew something do you see do you find it no it's i know i put it up there because we were mocking it maybe i put it on my instagram story and it went away i don't think so though i think it's it's there from i want to say i want to say it was at least six months ago but we were mocking this guy

because like this guy's got a lot of fucking signs like one sign's not enough I go this is the guy this is the reason why Twitter only has 140 characters for motherfuckers like this I think I remember it's like July because there's like 120 degrees out too wasn't it yes it was very hot this goofy asshole had this giant stack of signs. So back to the Kennedy thing. What do you think happened? Do you think that Lee Harvey Oswald probably acted alone? I think he probably acted alone. I think the physics of what happened is fairly consistent with the single shooter theory.

Now, admittedly, the magic bullet is a bit strange, but I don't think it's out of the bounds of possibilities. I do. Because of the fact of the metal particles. There's more bullet fragments in Connolly's body than were missing from that almost pristine bullet. And even though the fact that it hit Connolly at the very end, if it went through all that flesh

and it didn't hit any bone until it hit his wrist, then it would not have been compromised very much ballistically. It would still be going incredibly fast. It still would have smashed into that bone. It did enough to break his wrist. And it would have distorted the bullet. That's just what happens with bullets. See, unfortunately, I don't really follow JFK conspiracy very much. And the reason I don't is that there are already, I think literally over a thousand books. Mm-hmm. Okay. I've read a few

um I've got into case closed. That was a Vincent bullio sees book. Is that who it was? But I was like this guy's got an agenda. It just didn't it There's there's many books that you could read About the Kennedy assassination and Some of them favor the conspiracy and some of them favor the assassination. I think a lot of them have merit on both sides. One thing that drives me crazy was people say that you could never make that shot. That's fucking bullshit. That's bullshit. This is why I know it's bullshit because it was only

like a couple hundred yards. Like a couple hundred yards shooting at something the size of a person's head is easy what about jesse ventura trying to do the you know three three shots getting three shots off he didn't know what he's doing look i mean first of all you would if you were used to that rifle and you practice that wasn't someone said oh the scope was off i think that's bullshit. The reason why I think that's bullshit is because it's easy to knock a scope off. You have to have a direct chain of evidence. Between the time Lee Harvey Oswald had that scope shooting that rifle, the moment he shot that rifle,

and then you have to hand it off to someone who checks the scope right then. Because if you drop a rifle, the scope goes off. Just drop it. I've done that before. I dropped a rifle once when I was hunting in Wisconsin and my scope was off by 6 inches at 100 yards. Just

dropping it. So the idea that he could have never made that shot because the scope was off. Scopes get adjusted. That's what happens when you drop a scope. They move. That's a whole thing about ballistics. You have to check them. You go to the range. You set up a lead sled. You lay the rifle down so it's perfectly stable. You have to check them. You go to the range, you set up a lead sled, you lay the rifle

down so it's perfectly stable. You squeeze off a shot, you use the binoculars, you find out where the shot hit on the target, and then you adjust the scope. They're adjustable. So the idea that a scope was no good is crazy. The idea that that shot was too far to make, insane. It was only, I think it was less than a hundred yards when they think you made the first shot, which is a chip shot. That's a shot that you would make without even a rest. Now he's making this shot resting on the window, so he's perfectly steady. The idea that that was impossible is crazy.

The idea that no one can do that in three shots, that's been disproven. Someone can do it. Someone who's really good at reloading and loading can do it. Just because Jesse Vendura couldn't do it. But Jesse's super conspiracy minded yes like he goes all in with the conspiracy theory that's the motivated reasoning part of things I don't know if he's doing it you know just for his show or because he really believes it I worked with the same people that did his show the same people that

did his show the reason why I did Joe Rogan questions everything is they wanted me to take over Jesse's show after it was done. And I was uninterested. I was like, I'm not that guy. I'm not like the I believe every conspiracy guy. I think people have a real weird vested interest in proving that things are a conspiracy. I'm interested in finding out what things really are. Like legitimately what they really are. And even if I'm wrong, like I'm not interested in reinforcing things I've already said.

If I find out that what I said was wrong, I'm interested in repeating that I was wrong as many times as I can to get it out to as many people as I can. Yeah, I'm with you. Because I think it's important. So this JFK thing, there's bullshit on both sides of it. But the idea that this guy who went over to Russia, married a Russian citizen, came back here, was I mean, he was absolutely involved in some shady, weird shit

with Cuba. He's a fucking weird guy. Like, Lee Harvey Oswald was a weird guy. The idea that he was completely innocent, I'm not buying that either. I don't, yeah, I don't buy the idea that it's proven that he acted entirely alone. It's entirely possible that there are other people who are helping him or motivating him or giving him instructions even. The thing I don't think is really proven is the additional shooter theory.

It's not proven. And there have been people that said they heard things from behind them. The problem with that is chaos. And there have been people that said they heard things from behind them. The problem with that is chaos. When you have gunshots, first of all, gunshots in an area like Dealey Plaza, the echoes, yeah, echoes ring out. And people claim to see things and hear things. They even believe themselves.

If you tell someone that you heard something in the bushes and then you run away, that person will say, I heard something in the bushes. And then other people will repeat it. It becomes the narrative and it just gets, it's really hard. You can create memories. Yes, you can. You can. You can even point to somebody and say there is somebody there and they'll think there's somebody there later because they, you know, the brain is so chaotically working. It forms memories in a very weird way. Especially when it comes to something that's so significant, like the president getting shot or any sort of violent thing.

Now, this is something that gets repeated ad nauseum about 9-11. It's something that people point to where they think that when the planes hit those buildings, that there was detonations that caused Tower 1 and Tower 2 to fall. There's no way they would have fallen like that.

Like when people say, no, they heard things in the buildings, they heard explosions. People always say shit like that. And on top of that, if you're dealing with a building collapsing like that, you're going to hear a lot of crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to, there are going to be explosions.

Things are falling. You know, there's, there were people falling off the buildings. Which goes to Tower 7. That's another one that keeps coming up. See if you can find the video, Jamie. There's the video that shows what really happened in Tower 7. There's a guy who was a conspiracy guy. He was really deep into conspiracies. And then the more he started looking into Tower 7, the more he realized that everyone is just showing the very final video where tower seven collapses

like a controlled demolition and it looks exactly like a controlled demolition however if you find the full video you see that the interior had collapsed moments before like quite a bit before edward current i think is the guy i think that's exactly who it is. See if you can find that gentleman's video. But he shows how the top of it, you can see the top of Tower 7 give in, which is consistent with this idea that the diesel fuel that they had in the basement had created, wasn't it like diesel tanks? Yeah, that was an early theory of the diesel fuel, that that was actually fueling the fire. But they never found any evidence that actually the diesel fuel contributed to the

fires. It was just regular office fires, which is what everybody finds so suspicious. So the diesel never caught fire? Is that what they're saying? They don't know. It might have been after the collapse. I think they recovered one of the tanks with some diesel still in it. So,

series of diesel, likely fed by a series of diesel generators located in the lower floors, which is where most of the tanks with some diesel still in it. So, series of diesel, likely fed by a series of diesel generators located in the lower floors, which is where most of the fires were concentrated. So, at least one of the diesel tanks didn't light up. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. The theory, like NIST theory, is that

the diesel had nothing to do with it. Okay. So, NIST, which if you are a conspiracy theory person, they get really angry when you bring up NIST. Because they're the government. The government, man. I think this is an older video. Yeah, this isn't the video, Jamie. There's one by-

Edward Currant. Yeah. And what it does is it shows the top of the building cave in first. Quite a bit before the rest of the building. So this idea that it all cave in like a controlled demolition. Because they detonated all those things. So. Is that air work current? Yeah.

I only got to find a good spot of the video to show it. Okay. Yeah. So what happened. What they think was that the fire. that's a shitty design of a building. And the fire caused internal damage to all of the floors. First of all, you see there, the World Trade Center one fell basically against the side of seven.

Yeah, it was pretty close. The back of the building was all kind of like, all the windows were broken on the back side. There was one column in the middle of the back that was missing and a big chunk of the lower west side was kind of gouged out. Right. So this idea that it was just a fire. Yeah, it wasn't just a fire. Yeah. The fire is what triggered the collapse eventually.

But the fact that all the windows were missing from the south side contributed a lot to that because you got a lot of wind flow through. See if he's got the... I don't know, maybe this is a bad thing to do while you're actually doing the show. So this is what the idea is. The NIS computer models that all these floors had

collapsed and then the outside collapsed too. But what this guy, Edward Current, had showed in his video, I think it was him, was he showed that the top part, that part, yeah, the top penthouse had collapsed first. There it is. So if you see the penthouse collapsing. So you're syncing it up there with the two videos, the simulation. So it's sitting up there and then boom, you see it collapse.

And some windows breaking further down. Exactly. And that's something that no one ever shows. And then it gives in. So this is not a quick thing like a controlled demolition. All those windows giving in is indicative of all those floors collapsing probably more than it is the idea of, you know, the people that want to see conspiracy think that those bombs were going off there. And that as those detonations or explosions were going off, that that's what caused all those floors to collapse on top of each other. Yeah, I think that's what I was talking about with the core beliefs of the conspiracy theories with 9-11.

This fact that World Trade Center 7 looks like a controlled demolition is its core belief. World Trade Center 7 looks like a controlled demolition. It's his core belief. But when you actually get into something and describe what's actually happening, you have to go to a much more complicated conspiracy theory and a much more complicated way of looking at what actually happened. And now they're trying to do a complicated study of World Trade Center 7 at the University of Alaska.

This is something paid for by architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth. They're trying to actually figure out how they can reconcile controlled demolition with the fact that it collapsed the way it did. Right. So they're trying to actually explain something which doesn't really need explaining because the explanation has been done by NIST already. So what they're trying to do is find something

that reinforces their initial idea instead of just look at the facts itself saying, oh, you look at the top of the penthouse collapsing, that's not indicative of a controlled demolition. That's indicative of the model that NIST described, which is a slow burn inside, extremely hot deterioration of all the internal structure. Everything starts to collapse inside, and then the outside collapses too. Yeah, well, some of them will say that that is actually how controlled demolitions are done. You blow up the interior of the building first, and then you blow up the exterior of the building. But the problem is that none of the exterior columns were cut. There was no explosion scene on the exterior columns. If you look at the World Trade Center 1 and 2 coming down,

you can kind of imagine there are explosions going all the way down because there's things that look like explosions from the falling floors. But in 7, you just see the building kind of just kind of crumple down. So they have to kind of explain that. So they come up with this study that they funded. It's cost them like nearly $400,000. And they're trying to come up with an explanation that doesn't involve fire. So they're saying like, if it an explanation that doesn't involve fire. So they're saying, like, if it was controlled demolition, then the way they would have done it is blowing up these interior columns and it would have pulled in the exterior and collapsed the way we see in the video. And I think that some of them say that the penthouse thing was a separate thing because they wanted to have a neat demolition. So they first of all blew up a few floors just underneath the penthouse thing was a separate thing because they wanted to have a neat demolition. So they first of all blew up a few floors just underneath the penthouse. So it neatly collapsed inside the building. And then they blew up some floors at the bottom. So it all fell in on itself without

damaging the surrounding buildings too much. So they've got this complex theory. And it's based on confirmation bias. It's based on confirming this idea that this is a controlled demolition, not on examining the whole thing as it is and going, okay, is it possible that the NIST model is correct? The thing that I bring up to people all the time when they want to talk about conspiracies, there's a real conspiracy in 9-11, and that's the fact that it happened. The fact that they did fly planes into buildings, that's a conspiracy, and they pulled it off. That actually did happen.

People don't want that to be it They want it to be a much broader conspiracy involving world governments that are trying to close in on You know all our rights and this is the way to do it and yeah It's proportionality if people want something to be in proportion to the size of the event And they think just like a bunch of Arabs with knives isn't a big enough cause. So they think that it has to be something more significant.

And even like with the physics of it, they think the plane flew into the building and it didn't collapse, so why would it collapse? Some people don't think that the plane would even have gotten in the hole. They think it would have bounced off. Who the fuck thinks that? Or some of't think that the plane would even have got in the hole. They think it would have bounced off. Who the fuck thinks that?

Or some of them think that the tower would have been knocked over. Really? Yeah. But these are people who have really no conception whatsoever of physics. And it's a minority of people. But you'll find people who don't understand how aluminum can cut through steel. You know, the columns of the exterior of the World Trade Center were made of steel, very strong steel, and planes are made of mostly aluminum.

So they don't understand how a plane made of aluminum, which is soft, can go through steel, which is very hard and strong. And the example I always give to them is the ping pong ball going through a ping pong paddle. If you make it go fast enough, this is something I think Mythbusters do and various other people have done. You send a regular ping pong ball 500 miles an hour into a ping pong paddle and it just goes straight through it, leaves a ping pong ball hole in the middle of it. And that's just what happened on 9-11. The planes were going at 500 miles an hour. I didn't know you could do that with a ping pong ball. You can.

Wow. That makes sense. It's just, well, for the planes, too, the amount of mass you're dealing with, too, and the speed. It's 500 miles an hour. Yeah. And it doesn't even need to be relatively that much mass. You think a ping pong ball, it weighs like one gram. And a paddle weighs like 200 grams or something. And you wouldn't think. You've seen ping pong ball it weighs like one gram and a paddle weighs like you know 200 grams or something

so and you wouldn't think you know you've seen you've seen ping pong paddles they're this laminated wood and rubber and you've got this flimsy little ball it's how on earth is that going to go through that so it's unintuitive so you can understand how uh people would be confused about why the planes left these little roadrunner holes. See if you can find that. You got the Mythbusters thing? I want to see that. Oh, here it is. Wow.

That was a hole. So they have some crazy air cannon. Yep. Blows all. Okay. Here's the problem with that, though. Here's the problem with that. They're doing that right in front of that. They have to with the ping pong ball because it would slow down.

I understand, but you're also dealing with the actual air. Yeah, but it's the... But it is the ping pong ball that does it. You can because it would slow down. I understand, but you're also dealing with the actual air. Yeah, but it's the... But it is the ping pong ball that does it. You can see it in slow motion. Because what I was going to bring up was a guy killed himself once accidentally on a movie set because he took an unloaded gun and he shot it into his temple and it blew his brains out. Yeah, it was blank.

But the fact that it was blank didn't stop that air from blowing through. There's a thing that people do when they hunt in Alaska and in incredibly moist climates and places where there's a lot of dirt and debris, they will put tape over the top of the rifle, over the end of the barrel where the bullet comes over, or they even use a condom. And it has no effect whatsoever on the accuracy of the bullet because the air coming out of the rifle barrel from the explosion blows that tape out before the bullet even gets to it.

Yeah. But the only reason they have to have that thing right at the end of the barrel is the ping pong ball would slow down. Yeah, that makes sense. In the air because it's so light. Right. You know, if you shot something a little bit heavier, but still pretty small, it will go through it. Yeah, no, it makes sense. Then you think you've got to scale it up.

Like, you know, imagine like a beer barrel made out of steel or aluminum. You know, it's like weighs like 100 pounds or whatever when it's full. And you imagine that slamming into something at 500 miles an hour. If a ping pong ball can do something at 500 miles an hour, a beer barrel at 500 miles an hour can do an awful amount of damage. Probably go right through a building. Yeah, and then you scale up from like a beer barrel to a 200-ton plane. Yeah.

And 200 tons hitting something at 500 miles an hour. It doesn't matter that it's, you know, it's made of aluminum. It's still 200 tons of something. If it was just, you know, a big bag of water hitting something at 500 miles an hour, it would still make a hole in the side of the building. I think this is a problem with a lot of these theories is that a lot of the people that are involved in these theories are either not educated in what they're talking about, because there are some various nuances to things like this ping pong ball trick. Or they don't want to be. Like they don't want to look at anything that takes away from this conspiracy.

They don't want to look at anything that debunks or disproves. They just want confirmation of their initial idea that this is some big, grand conspiracy, that someone is in on it and it's happening right before our eyes. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite hard to even get one point past a lot of people. Yeah. If someone starts out with that theory that aluminum cannot cut steel, then that just becomes the gatekeeping obstacle that you have to get past. If you can't disprove that one thing, nothing else matters really for them because the plane couldn't have entered the building. Therefore, everything is a conspiracy. So you kind of have to address these things.

Yeah, you have to. You have to address these things. Yeah, you have to. And it's important for people before they decide that this is, you know, that the government's spraying things in the sky or that the world is flat or whatever these things are. It's important to look at all the evidence. These YouTube videos, one of the real problems with them is that they get to play out without being interrupted, much like a podcast, unfortunately. But they get to have these grand statements without anyone who's an expert stepping in and stopping them and saying, well, that's not true. And here's why it's not true. And here's why you can prove that it's not true, which would just derail most of these

conspiracy theories really quickly. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of the brainwashing aspect of these videos. People, uh, people watch these three-hour videos yeah uh kind of surprised me at first i was surprised that people would you know listen to a three-hour podcast but you know once you get going in something you know the first time i was on your podcast the time went by like nothing yeah and if you're into something and you get sucked into it and you've got this really interesting theory and it's like all these revelations like, oh, my God, I'm getting the real skinny on the world. The ice wall. Yeah.

You just get sucked in and then when it's finished, you're on kind of a dopamine high and you want to do more. And you also feel like you're in on something that people don't know and you want to tell them about it. Oh, yeah. And I've been there. I've been there. and you want to tell them about it. Oh, yeah. And I've been there. I've been there.

I've always told people the dumbest one I ever believed in was those stupid tubes that fly through the air. Rods. Yeah. I was hook, line, and sinker. I would go outside and I would try to find those things streaking across the sky. What it was was that there was a video that was made called Roswell Rods, and it was trying to say that there was these bugs-like things that looked like jellyfish that were flying through the

air so fast the naked eye couldn't see them, but they would catch them on video cameras. And then finally someone figured it out that what it really was was you could have an HD camera right next to a standard definition camera, and the standard, see those things flying across the sky? It's just a video artifact. When the camera cannot pick up those bugs, it elongates them and streaks them across the camera. Motion blur. Yeah, it's motion blur.

And this guy came to one of my UFC Q&As once, and he waited in line and yelled out, You're wrong about the rods. The rods are real. I can prove it. Silly fellow. But that was a monster quest. They'd proven that on television. They'd set up two cameras. Yeah, it's so hard when it's actually been proven and you've got this conclusive proof,

and yet there are still loads and loads of people who believe in rods and orbs. Look how it looks. Look at how he was describing that it looks. Yeah, it's like some kind of alien jellyfish. That's so fast, it flies through the air faster than you can see. Yeah, I mean, the problem is these guys have a vested interest in it being real. He's motivated, and not necessarily by money. They're just motivated because once they believe something, they feel like they're privy to this special knowledge. Yeah. It's just going to be such a letdown if they're wrong.

I think it's that and money. I mean, he sold a bunch of videos. I bought them. I bought two of those bitches. Well, I just tried to start out with the assumption that people are not, you know, they're basically good people and they're not trying to make money. Right. Well, I think they also get caught up in the business of whatever it is.

You know, if you're in the UFO business and then someone comes along and shuts down your business, you're going to try to, well, let me sort of, they're not going to look at it objectively. They're going to go, I want to keep my business alive. I want to protect my business. Yeah. Well, it's like, uh, architects and engineers for nine 11 truth. They're, they're like a half million dollar a year business. Uh, they're taking between 400 and $800,000 a year. And the president of the, the architects and

engineers, he gets paid a salary of like $85,000 a year and he gets his expenses paid. Now that doesn't mean that he doesn't believe in what he's doing. He, I'm sure, started out as like a hardcore believer in 9-11 truth. But over the last 10 years, this has become his life and his livelihood. So even if he really believes it, he still has this additional level of motivation to not disprove things. How many people are in Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth? Well, it depends how you count it. They say they have thousands of architects and engineers actually signing the petition. I think they have maybe a few hundred working structural engineers.

What do you think of their take on it? Their take is kind of like the standard of 9-11 truth. They think that it's controlled demolition, and they think they have all this evidence for controlled demolition, but it's not very good evidence. One of the experts is a high school physics teacher and you know he's probably fairly good at high school physics but he just makes some very simple mistakes about physics of the the falling towers and they repeat this on their website unquestioningly there's another guy

who's like the expert on the nanothermite residue that was found. They think that these red and gray specks of what looks like paint and rust was actually nanothermite. Since he's now like an expert on their site, he gets to say whatever he likes. And he's got this one theory about how the bits of steel that flew out of the building had these nanothermite rockets attached to them, which is why they were leaving these trails of smoke behind when they fell down. And these are things that are just pretty ridiculous. And you can kind of debunk them with physics, but they'll have none of it because they've got their experts saying something. of it because they've got their experts saying something and you can't uh you can't deny the fact that you can't deny that you can't debunk their experts because they're experts you know where would you know more about a high school physics teacher about physics where would you

know more about nanothermite than this guy who's an expert in nanothermite so they've got all this supposed expertise making these mistakes about 9-11 like The president has this ridiculous demonstration that he does where he holds up two cardboard boxes. Underneath one of them there's empty space, and underneath the other one there's a tower. And he drops them, and this one falls to the ground, and this one bounces off the cardboard box. And he's basically saying this is what should have happened.

This upper portion should have stopped on the way down and is using these cardboard boxes as a demonstration. But they're ridiculous oversimplifications of what actually happened. Yeah, I don't know too much about the engineers take on things, you know, from architects and engineers. I really didn't bother getting into it too much. But I just do know that it's several hundred people, if not over a thousand, and they're all over the world. But how many people have studied it that disagree with them?

Like how many and how good are the architects and engineers that are in architecture? I mean, there's a lot of architects and a lot of engineers in this world. Yeah, they recently tried to get a motion passed at the American Institute of Architects, which was basically a reopened World Trade Center 7. And they went to the convention and they stood up and they gave their speeches and gave all their evidence about why the Building 7 investigation should have been reopened. And they took a vote. And I think it was about something like 97% to 3% against doing this. So of the architects who were actually there, these professional architects, 97%, I can't

remember the exact figures, but it's around that, voted against this. So even though there's thousands of signatures to the AE-911 petition who are actually architects, when you actually look at the actual millions of architects that are out there in the world, it's a very small fraction of that. Right, but how many of those millions have studied it? That's the real problem. I would like to see someone who's like a real legitimate top of the food chain architect from the debunking side, view it from someone who is absolutely all in. Lots of people have done various studies on 9-11, the collapses of the building.

There was a book by a guy from London, I think it's called Feng Fu, a Chinese guy from London, who wrote a book on progressive collapses in large buildings. It came out last year, 2016, and it discusses why buildings haven't collapsed, why the World Trade Center towers collapsed amongst a whole bunch of other buildings, why we either collapsed or didn't. So there are lots of people who do actually study it. And within AE911, Architects and Engineers for 9-11, the vast majority of them have not studied it.

If you look at their position statements, everybody who joins it writes a little statement which goes on the website. They'll say things like, I watched loose change and that opened my eyes. Right. Or, you know, it looked weird to me. That's like the real common thing.

When I saw the towers fall, I knew it wasn't a regular collapse. It looked weird to me is my favorite one. But it did look weird. It looked weird to me as my favorite one. It did look weird. It looked weird to me. Yeah, of course. Yeah. An architect saying it looked weird to them,

it looked weird to everybody. Right. And no one has seen anything like that before. It was unprecedented. You know, the Saturn V rocket taking off looks weird because it hadn't happened before. Yeah, there's a lot of things that look weird. What other things do you think that you and I disagree on?

I think maybe the Morgellons or Morgellons thing. Oh, yeah. You are more prone to think that it's a real thing because you went to the Morgellons conference. Not that it's a real thing, that there's real fibers growing out of people, but that there's neurotoxic. This is what I got from a doctor. The doctor who had Morgellons is at the clinic, who's a very reasonable guy. William Harvey, I think his name is. Is that his name?

Yeah. He has Lyme disease. And he said the vast majority of the people that have Morgellons also have Lyme disease. And he believes that there is a neurotoxic quality to Lyme disease that affects the way you see things and even causes hallucinations. And he witnessed it himself. He said, I hallucinated and saw something crawling across the surface of my eyeball in the mirror, but it wasn't a real thing. I couldn't see it after, you know, I looked at it again. It was gone, but I did see it for a moment. And he's convinced that

Lyme disease, when you catch Lyme disease, you're not necessarily catching. It's not like, you know, you have Tylenol, you know, something that's isolated. It's very specific. When you get Tylenol, you're getting Tylenol. He's like, when you get bit by a tick that has Lyme disease, you could get a host of pathogens. And there's, you know what would test positive for Lyme disease it's very tricky to find someone did ever this doctor this one one guy William Harvey he he's a guy who thinks he has more gallons or he thinks he has

chronic Lyme he definitely has chronic Lyme and he thinks that what more Jones is is a side effect of chronic Lyme where people start thinking there's fibers growing out of their skin right And so they think that fibers that come from their clothes or carpets, they get stuck to someplace they've been itching because they opened up a wound and that they start misinterpreting that as being something that's grown out of their skin. Yeah. Well, I would agree with that part of it. Yeah.

That's what he thinks. Yeah. So really, he's not really a Morgellons guy. He's a chronic Lyme guy. Yes what he thinks. Yeah, so really he's not really a Morgellons guy. He's a chronic Lyme guy. Yes, he is. He's a Morgellons guy in the fact that he has seen the hallucinations, but because of the fact that he's a doctor and scientifically minded, he believes that he's watching his own mind play tricks on him,

and he thinks there's neurotoxic qualities to whatever the pathogens that are in Lyme disease are. Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess I don't disagree with you too much then. I would disagree with you, I think, on chronic Lyme, but I think you probably know more about it than I do. From what I've seen, most doctors don't think chronic Lyme is a real thing. It depends on how long you have it for before you get it treated. That's the real issue. There's post-Lyme syndrome and chronic Lyme Which yeah some people think there's a chronic infection and other people think there's just chronic effects Like left over from having Lyme disease for a long time. I think there's a lot of variability I think one I mean, I think we'd probably have to really consult an actual line

Dr. On this not my area of expertise nor mine But I do have friends that have gotten Lyme disease. And I know some people that are suffering from it to this day that have like real, real terrible issues with it. My friend Jim Miller, who's a fighter in the UFC, it's come and go with him in a terrible way. It affects, greatly affects his joints and, and, you know, he's had to take various medications, try to get a handle on it.

It depends, I think, on the person. There's a lot of variables. It depends on the person. It depends on how quickly they detect the Lyme disease. My friend brought his son to the doctor. His son had Lyme disease. He brought his son to the doctor. The doctor didn't believe he had Lyme disease because the bullseye ring around the bite had gone away, which does sometimes happen.

They said, nah, it's probably nothing. And then the kid developed Bell's palsy. Right. And then they said, okay, this is serious. And then they realized that he actually does have Lyme disease. And he was pretty pissed that the doctor didn't take him seriously. He had the Lyme disease as well. He had to go on some serious intravenous antibiotics for months.

Right. It was like really heavy stuff. So he did actually have Lyme disease. He had Lyme disease andvenous antibiotics for months. Right. It was like really heavy stuff. So he did actually have Lyme disease. He had Lyme disease and it devastated him for months. Yeah. For months, he wasn't the same. I think a problem with a lot of these medical conditions is that they're clinical diagnoses, which means that they're diagnosed not with tests that you can do of blood and things

like that, but it's based on the symptoms. Yes. And a lot of the times people, they like to attribute their problems to something and give it a name. So we've got a lot of things now like fibromyalgia where we don't have, we can't do like a blood test usually for something like fibromyalgia.

You have elevated immune responses and things like that, but you can't like say for sure this is fibromyalgia. It could be just a symptom of something else. But people like to put a name on things. So if people have, they're getting aches and pains or whatever, they say it's fibromyalgia. They convince themselves it's fibromyalgia. Self-diagnosis.

Yeah. And with Morgellons, that happens a lot. People get old, your joints start to ache, your hair starts to fall out, and your eyes start to, you know, you're losing your vision, your focus. And people think, what's wrong with me? And they don't realize they're just getting old. And they look it up and they think they have Morge reason, they like to attribute their chronic condition to something. So they might tag on to a particular thing like chronic Lyme if something, if they got bit by a tick, like, you know, last summer. And then this summer now they have all these problems.

They might self-diagnose as having chronic Lyme. It is possible, but you do realize there's a tremendous amount of Lyme disease in the northeast in particular. Oh yeah, Lyme disease is a very real thing. It's a horrible, horrible condition. And the people that do get it, I mean, they're pretty uniform in the fact that it sucks. And it's really scary because it really didn't kind of exist just a few

hundred years ago. I mean, I don't know where it came from. Yeah, I don't know. Or maybe they didn't know what it was. People got it and no one had any idea what it was. Yeah, it could be. It was discovered in that village, Lime. Lime, which is what it's named after. That reminds me of the

Cuban embassy thing with the sonic weapons. Yeah. What do you think about that thing? I think it's... I don't think it's... there is any sonic weapon. Why do you think that? Because the... it's the same type of thing people are reporting a bunch of symptoms they haven't really done any physical diagnosis of people people were getting ill people were reporting hearing noises uh but the noises kind of sound like cicadas

uh and so it could have been like one guy waits over in the middle of the night, there's a cicada in his room jumps out of bed, cicada goes quiet and if you ever try tracking a cicada in your yard you get close to them and they go quiet so you've got to start moving. So he gets back into bed cicada starts buzzing again so this happens to one guy say

he tells this story to someone he gets ill later some unrelated thing and other people say like you know well i don't feel very well either and then at some point people kind of make a false connection and they start thinking that something actually happened and so they start asking people how are you feeling are you feeling all right how's your hearing and people say well my hearing is not as good as it used to be my eyesight's not as good as it used to be i mean having these balance problems but it's just people just having

normal normal life problems they're getting old or the you know the food sickness or they've moved moved away pull up um pull up evidence of sonic weapon in cuba because i don't i don't agree with you on this one the u.s releases recordings of sonic weapon attack used against diplomats in Cuba play this Sounds a bit like a skater to me At least 22 people have been hurt by the mysterious high-pitched sound. Have they, though? Have they? 22 people are sick.

They've talked to their doctors, and they've told them about the symptoms of the having... They've diagnosed people with brain damage, but it's a clinical diagnosis. But you know that they have sonic weapons, right? Yeah, they have sonic weapons. Sonic weapons is something that have been researched, and it's real. And you don't think it's entirely possible that this is a sonic weapon. I don't see any evidence This is something where you looked into this a lot. Yeah, yeah It seems to me that if they're Broadcasting it and this is something that you know the government's talking about it

They're investigating it all these different people are investigating it it seems like there's enough evidence that they're concerned if everyone's reporting different things hmm Stressful conditions not a different weapon second us diplomats Cuba panel certs. Yeah, you can't listen You got sick man. I think they're right Cuba like yeah sure they've got an interest in figuring it out because they don't want to get the finger. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's probably not Cuba doing it if it was somebody. Look at this. After a nine-month probe hampered by a lack of success, a lack of access to medical records,

a panel of Cuban scientists today declared U.S. diplomats here likely suffered a collective psychogenic disorder. Huh. Not a deliberate health attack. Mass hysteria, essentially. So see what evidence there is that is pro. I typed in evidence, and this is what came up. Yeah, this is a new thing. The latest thing is that—

Yeah, but see if there's any other articles that contradict this. There is a later thing than this where there's been... They say the detector changes in the white matter of the brain of some people. Hmm. Which is a bit vague. The white matter of the brain? Yeah. What are they using, fMRI?

What are they using to find the... I don't know how they do it, but... They can't even figure out CTE in players. Yeah, it's... But who knows what caused this and how many people actually had it you know if one guy has changes in the white matter of his brain who knows what that's actually due to doctors treating victims of the attack though have found visible perceptible damage to the patient's brains marking the first solid evidence that sophisticated weapon described

by embassy staff is entirely real, the Associated Press reports. It says the Associated Press based on what? Based on someone at the State Department saying we have found some damage somewhere. You know, the State Department is covering their ass. The State Department expelled Cuban diplomats because of this. They did? Yeah. Meanwhile, the Cuban diplomats are like,

Mike, we did nothing. Yeah. We did nothing, Mike. Scroll back up there diplomats went, Mike, we did nothing. Yeah. We did nothing, Mike. Scroll back up there, please. Scroll back up to the top. They took some Americans away from the embassy because they were sick. And so they said the Cubans didn't protect the Americans well enough,

so you're going to have to send six people back as well. See, it says the State Department, the FBI officials. Oh, it's so unlike anything the State Department and the FBI officials have ever seen that the Cuban government's claim the high-pitched whirring sounds reported by the U.S. Embassy staff are just cicadas seems almost plausible. Click on that link that says they're just cicadas up at the top. That would be the same one we just saw, I think. Is that it?

Yeah. Playing the noise. That would be the same one we just saw, I think. Is that it? Yeah. Playing the noise. This is a similar attack happened to somebody else in Uzbekistan. Is that Bush?

Oh, really? Yeah. Old school Bush. Why do they have a picture of him? He's being attacked by a cicada. It's my idea. I did it all. Yeah.

It's a weird sound, for sure. But I would think that something that could damage you would be a frequency that would be... Audible? Yeah. Well, some of them reported hearing things. But some people didn't report hearing things. Some people had a high-pitched whine that disappeared. Some people had a long-lasting rumbling noise. Some people had vision changes-lasting rumbling noise. The attacks might not be sonic at all. Vision changes.

All kinds of different, you know, just the irregular Morgellons, chronic fatigue, getting old type symptoms. Hmm. So you think that someone started talking about this being an issue, that they're being attacked, and everybody started freaking out. Yeah. That's possible. Yeah. And I think probably something happened, like some guy heard something and jumped out of bed and it stopped and then got back into bed and it started freaking out. Yeah. That's possible. Yeah, and I think probably something happened, like some guy heard something and jumped out of bed and it stopped and then got back into bed

and it started again. And someone else had something similar happen. That's funny because if you were in Cuba and they didn't want you there and you heard weird noises, you're like, God damn it, they're attacking me with a sound ray. And people are being harassed in Cuba.

Like if you work at the American embassy, you get harassed. New sonic attack against American diplomats suggests Russian involvement. Bom, bom, bom. The Russians did it through Twitter bots. When you click on the Twitter bots, they send sound through your earbuds. Yeah, people are saying, like, you know, linking the cicadas causing the hearing loss, but no one's actually saying the cicadas are causing people to lose their hearing.

They're just saying that, you know, people sometimes get reductions in their hearing as they get older, and maybe they're noticing it because they're focusing on it so much. Right. That's what happens with all these diseases. People think, I'm sick,

and then they focus on something. Like, if you feel like you're itching a bit, and you think you've got some kind of weird pathogen under your skin, you're just going to itch more and more, and you're going to feel more and more itching. Right. So if people weren't really paying attention, like, I have, like, mild tinnitus, like, ringing in the ears.

From video games or something? I don't know. Headphones? They say you get that from... Yeah, it could be. But, you know, people get... It has to get older for no reason. Some people, you know,

go into loud concerts or whatever. Right. Most of the time I don't even think about it. I might have never even noticed it. But if I stop

and listen to my... You know, what's going on in my ears, I can hear the tinnitus, this noise in my ear very quietly. So if someone said, oh, I think we're being bombarded by sonic weapons, like, can you hear any, like, ringing in my ear very very quietly so if someone said oh i think we're being bombarded by sonic

weapons like uh can you hear any like ringing in your ear or anything like that and then you go quiet and you listen and you start noticing these things hmm right that makes sense people are very susceptible you know psychosomatic illnesses are absolutely very real and there's a thing called You know, psychosomatic illnesses are absolutely very real. And there's a thing called sick building syndrome, which is possibly a real thing and possibly a psychogenic thing. But a lot of people think that sick building syndrome, a lot of the times when it happens, it's like when lots of people working in the same place get similar symptoms. It's happening because of this mass psychogenic illness. One person says, I feel sick. And everyone kind of assumes it's something in the environment around them that's causing that. And so they kind of feel sick as well. There's a disease that I'd heard of,

someone was talking about this once called allophronia, I believe. And that it's when people go to visit people who have schizophrenia, if they hang out with those people, they start developing very bizarre behavior of their own. And sometimes they have to be monitored. That's kind of weird. Yeah. We all know that some people are way more susceptible to suggestion, way more susceptible to...

Have you ever been hypnotized? No, I haven't. I have. It's fascinating. Yeah. I feel like I wouldn't be hypnotized Oh, I think everybody thinks that yeah, I thought that too, but I did it with a friend My friend Vinnie Shorman did it to me. So I trusted him and I just let and he's registered licensed hypnotist and he works with a lot of athletes a lot of fighters in particular and

Basically just puts you in a very bizarre state of mind but you're aware of it the whole time it's not like you know some manchurian candidate thing where they're going to wake up mick now you're an assassin for the government and you'll like run out the door in your underwear like captain underpants do you know captain underpants is do you have kids uh no but i don't know how to catch an underpants yeah yes my kids love captain underpants yeah a friend of mine told me i should uh try hypnotizing my wife. To do what? He didn't specify exactly. He says it's the way he keeps his relationship going.

He hypnotizes her? Yeah, like every couple of nights he hypnotizes his wife and just, I don't know. I don't know exactly what happens exactly. He didn't really specify, but he highly recommended hypnotizing my wife. Wow, that guy sounds like a creep. He's doing some weird shit to his wife. He's a nice guy, but... Maybe not when he's got that stopwatch

hanging from his string. It was always a watch, right? Follow the watch very carefully. You're getting sleepy. Yeah, that's real. Hypnosis is real. I was wondering. I was like, what is this like?

Is this bullshit but they it really does put you in a very unusual state and when you get out of it there you know you can go through a lot of stuff that you have like maybe cluttering around inside your mind and reorganize after a hypnotic session it's pretty interesting it's a reason why people use it for like you know quitting smoking and things along those lines yeah well this just shows how malleable the human brain is yeah uh and you know it goes back to that whole thing with being brainwashed by youtube you know people make uh documentaries uh in a way to hypnotize people yeah they they structure it in a way that you get these images coming at you in these ideas and this this reinforcement of things in a way that you get these images coming at you and these ideas and this reinforcement

of things in a way that will actually just kind of embed this idea in your brain without you even really realizing it. Yeah. And I'll say things like you are being lied to. The thing that kills me too is that they use oftentimes a hypnotic voice like that Eric Dubé guy who does those flat earth videos. He talks in a very hypnotic manner. It's like very calm.

Yeah. Yeah, I think some of the 9-11 videos do as well. There's this nice woman dictating it. Yeah, they get you. The buildings could not possibly have fallen the way they did. Physics proves it. It looks like we're going to have Eric Dubé, he said

he's agreed to do it, talk with Neil deGrasse Tyson. What? Yes. He's going to Skype in from Thailand or wherever the fuck he is. Yeah, I think it's in Thailand. I don't know how he gets there with the flat earth. How do you get there? That's still in the Northern Hemisphere, I think, Thailand.

Scoop over there? Shoot over there and avoid the ice wall? But he doesn't believe in dinosaurs either. Yeah, he's kind of a crazy guy. No way, you think? He doesn't believe in... I don't know if he believes in satellites, but I don't think he believes in nuclear bombs either.

He's a bit of an anti-Semite as well, I think. Is he? Yeah, that's the whole kind of... That's unfortunate. ...subculture in the movement of... Flat Earths. Yeah, Nazis Nazis type people. Well.

Because the conspiracy theory goes back to, you know, the Rothschilds running the world. Right. And so they think it's these, you know, this certain sect of the Jewish race who are actually in control of everything. And these are the people who are stopping you from. Eric Dubé, this is not me saying this. I have no knowledge whether or not you're anti-Semite. So don't chicken out. It's pretty easy to verify.

He's got a bunch of videos explaining his position on it. My favorite thing is that he's, my friend Eddie Bravo is kind of buying into some of his shit, which tortures me to no end. But Eddie is one of the greatest jiu-jitsu coaches on planet Earth. I mean, he's an amazing jjitsu coach and jujitsu competitor. And one of Eric Dubé's biggest videos is about how jujitsu is bullshit. It just shows you.

Isn't it about that? It's like about Wing Chun Kung Fu defeats jujitsu, which is, by the way, not true. Don't try it. Unless you're way bigger and the guy sucks at Jiu Jitsu. You should get those guys in a room together and they can just fight it out. Yeah. I don't think so. They would just talk about conspiracies to the end of time.

Eddie loves conspiracies, man. I would like to talk to Eddie. Yeah. We could do that. He's an interesting guy. But it would be a lot of screaming. It would be a lot of screaming. Might have to get you some earplugs here.

Tonight I should kick in. He's interesting because he knows so much lot of screaming. Might have to get you some earplugs here. Tinius would kick in. He's interesting because he knows so much about them all. Oh, man. Yeah, he's really interested in them. It just confuses me. I'm like, how much time do you have? Where do you have the time for this? Yeah, he's spouting off this advanced physics references

like Mickelson-Morley and Aries failure and things like that. Those are the flat Earth things. Yeah, the science experiments that supposedly proved the earth wasn't moving. That one's hilarious to me because when I first brought it up to Eddie, Jamie pulled this up and sent it to me the other day. I first brought it up to Eddie from like eight years ago on the podcast, one of the really early podcasts when we still did it in my house on a couch. And he's like, what's the most ridiculous conspiracy theory you heard?

And I said, flat earth. And he's like, no, people don't believe the earth is flat. So he went from that to, I don't think he's 100% convinced that it's flat, but he's definitely willing to listen. He's down the rabbit hole. He got sucked in. He loves it. And it's probably like a lot of it is just from him watching endless YouTube videos.

It's 100% what it is. Here it is right here. It's just from him watching endless YouTube. It's 100% what it is here. It is right here What's the worst conspiracy theory like the worst one flat earth there's people that know it was flat to the young earth That's another bad one. No, no, no like today people don't believe it's yes younger Yeah, it's a big percentage of the Christian population I went with young earth there for some fucking stranger. We were all baked. Oh, probably. Unfortunately.

But that was when he found out about flat earth for me. And that was... He started him down the rabbit hole. A thousand episodes ago. What episode was that? 54. So that was probably 2010. Yeah, yeah.

It was the first year. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think the flat earth was even that big on the internet back then. Dude, I'm ahead of the curve, baby. Irresponsible for this whole thing. Yeah. Well, he and I used to watch UFO things forever, but he got off of UFOs. See, he goes in waves, right?

Eddie goes in waves. We were both really into UFOs, and in particular, Zechariah Sitchin. That was the big one. Do you know who Zechariah Sitchin is? I think you talked about him last time. He's the Sumerian text guy. He wrote... The reason why 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu is named 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, I actually came up with the name. And one of the reasons why I came up with the name and one of the reasons why I came up with the names, cause we were talking about Zechariah Sitchin and the idea is that, um, this, this came from another planet. We actually came up with the name before Pluto had been changed from, uh, you know, they,

they, they decided as a planetoid downgraded it. So we decided that this jujitsu was coming from another planet, like out there where the Anunnaki live. But it was based on Zechariah Sitchin's book, The Twelfth Planet. And his book was all about planet Nibiru and that the Sumerian texts were when you decipher them correctly, they all describe this ancient race that came from this other planet that has this elliptical orbit that comes in between Earth and the Mars and Jupiter somewhere somewhere. It comes near Earth every three thousand six hundred years.

And that this group of beings called the Anunnaki created human beings by coming down here and taking them and taking lower primates and injecting their DNA into them and blah, blah, blah. We were balls deep into that. That was a big one. Yeah, that Anunnaki type thing, like the ancient aliens, is something that's really at the far end of the conspiracy spectrum. But you still get people who are chemtrail believers who believe it.

One of the guys you interviewed, Scott Stevens, is a meteorologist. Yes. Yeah, he was into like, yeah. He believed chemtrails 100%. Yeah, he also believed in aliens and that type of anarchy, like in angels and things.

Well, I don't disbelieve in aliens. What I disbelieve is people that are in contact with aliens. Right, yeah. I think the idea, you know, the Fermi paradox, right? The idea that there's so many planets and so many galaxies and so many solar systems that the odds of life being out there are so high, why have we not been contacted?

That's interesting to me. It is entirely possible, in my estimation as a moron, that we are the most advanced life form in the universe. It's entirely possible because we exist because we are the most advanced life form on Earth We know that right as far as we know as far as like communicating things that we've discovered in 2017 We are the most advanced. It's entirely possible that we're the most advanced everywhere. So one has to be yes I'm a first right it could be us. Yeah, people say like, you know, what are the odds? But you know, what are the odds? But, you know.

What are the odds of us? The first person, you know, whoever wins the lottery goes, what are the odds? But it happened to that person. Right. So it doesn't mean that it's very unlikely. It's not like we run lots of universes and see what happens. Well, also, there's a direct progression that you could follow. Like, what are the odds of someone inventing the iPhone 10 in 2017?

Well, I don't know. But that's how long it took. That's what happened. Yeah, that is exactly what happened. This is what we could track it. We can go back to the iPhone 1 10 years ago. It's real simple. Yeah, people use the argument like, what is the probability?

In weird ways, people say, what is the probability of three planes falling from two, three buildings falling from two planes hitting them? As if that argument actually makes any sense shitty argument yeah but they bring to all the time it's like what are the odds yeah who gets so lucky that you would have three planes three buildings on the same day yeah that doesn't make any sense no it doesn't but say things like and but again again it's to support confirmation bias so I think that it's entirely possible that we're the only advanced life form in the universe. Or it's entirely possible that there are incredibly advanced life forms that really aren't interested in us.

Yeah. Or we've been quarantined. Yeah. That's possible, too. Look at our fucking president. We have a wacky president that just lies all the time. I mean, out of his fucking mind. I think they probably would have started quarantining us a bit earlier than that. Yeah, but I mean, you would go, mind. I think they probably started quarantining a bit earlier than that.

Yeah, but I mean, you would go, these people don't know what the fuck they're doing. We need to figure out if they're going to blow each other up and pay close attention

to them, see if they don't poison their water. Like, figure out what they're going to do first before we give them new technology or communicate with them.

If there's people, if there's things out there, it's probably machines. Whoa. I think it's, you know if there's things out there, it's probably machines. Whoa. I think it's, you know, you look at the advances in AI and stuff that's going on now. I don't think there's, many civilizations can really survive. Think biological life has its time. Yeah, because, you know, people talk about like Terminator and Skynet and things like that and the robots taking over.

I think that's actually a real problem. I think you've seen these robots. Oh, yeah. They're pretty crappy now, but they've got to the stage where they can do backflips and things. And not too much further along the line, like a hundred years from now, it's like a blink of the universe's eye. We'll have robots that can do everything that humans can do and more. Absolutely.

Indistinguishable too from people. Yeah. If they choose to be. But not just indistinguishable. They will be humans plus. They'll be like gods. Yeah. They will be able to do hundreds,

thousands or millions of times more powerful than humans in terms of their their processing power and it's hundreds of times more powerful in terms of their strength and that's a hundred years from now yeah we're really close to that yeah because it's going to be an explosive thing there's this thing in ai now called um uh oh i'll write it down because i forgot what it was. Generative Adaptive Networks, which is this way of doing AI where the robots basically teach themselves. They are one robot who is judging things

and there's one robot that's creating things. And the robot that's creating things teaches the robot that's judging things how to judge and the robots that are judging things teaches the creating robot how to create. And then they just go back and forth, back and forth. The old way of doing AI was like, you would teach a robot to do things, and you'd correct it when

it got wrong, and you'd tweak the algorithm. But now you've got these robots that are learning things incredibly, incredibly rapidly by teaching themselves how to do things. And the humans who are running these robots don't actually understand how this actually works. You end up with this huge, big matrix of numbers, which no one can actually decipher, but the results come out of it.

They've got things like now where you can take a scene in a video and you can turn night into day, or you can turn a snow scene into a summer scene yeah because they can you know the robots and the ai know how to do these things and this is just the tip of the iceberg there's there's so much more coming down the line yeah i i saw something that was incredibly disturbing they said that when robots become sentient like when they have the ability to make up their own decisions and do things for themselves and they first thing they're going to do is improve upon their own design. Yeah. And they will be able to have 10,000 years of human – like if humans were evolving technology,

a robot or a sentient AI could do 10,000 years worth of technological advancement in two weeks. Yeah. Is that weeks. Yeah. Is that real? Yeah. Because computers just run so much faster. Just think about that number. Two weeks. So think about how long ago 10,000 years ago was.

First civilization. It's probably a little bit optimistic in terms of actual physical development because they can't make prototypes fast enough to try them out. Maybe they can. They don't sleep. They keep going. They will. They'll have these little robots.

It's going to be fucked. Robots can move so much faster than people. So what do we do? Kill them? Go back to living like a pioneer? Get a nice axe? Some scientists are saying that we should actually not. We should put the brakes on this AI.

A lot of them, right? Yeah. But it's a funny thing. It seems like we're moving towards the edge of the cliff and everyone's going, hey, we should probably hit the brakes soon. It's also such a lucrative thing for people to do because if you get really good AI, you can sell it. Right.

And the army is going to want robot soldiers. Yeah, you've got these drones with guns mounted on them. Yeah, if you can imagine you've got like your... That scares the shit out of me. What are you showing me here, James? This is an open-up hit play. it's really fast it's sorting uh ripe ripe tomatoes really quick it'll slow it down here in a second so you can see how fast it's doing whoa how can it see

the oh my god so it sees the green tomatoes and it just knocks them out yeah yeah what the fuck because the computer is essentially seeing what we're seeing now. But how is it hitting them so perfect? That's insane. So as they're coming down this ramp, these computers are, oh my god, that's in real time? Holy shit, dude.

So it's got this computer vision that's processing it. And because computers are fast enough to do this now. Oh my god, we're fucked. It's just going to get faster. We're so fucked. That scares the shit out of me more than the back-flipping robot. Imagine the back-flipping robot can actually move really fast. Yeah, well, that's what Elon Musk said.

You won't be able to see him unless you have a strobe light. Yeah, and they're going to be super accurate at shooting things. They should be, phew, take your eye out. Yeah, they're not going to have any trigger panic. They're just going to be able to execute. They'll be like robots. God damn it. So that's real.

That's a real conspiracy. Put down the chemtrails, walk away from the flat earth, and understand that there's sentient robots. You have a background in computers. What was your take on that whole thing when Google had to shut down these two computers communicating with each other? Because they started talking in a language that they didn't understand? Yeah, I mean, that's what I was talking about there with the generative adaptive networks. They didn't have to shut them down.

But they did, because they were a little freaked out. They had to shut them down because they couldn't do anything with them. It was the two computers talking to each other in gobbledygook. So if it was something interesting, they would have kept them and studied it. But do you think that they knew what the computers were saying? The computers knew what they were saying to each other or no? No. It was just some kind of loop that they got stuck in.

It probably wasn't particularly intelligent or anything. Oh, it's so much more ominous to say that they invented the language. They weren't like plotting to take over the world. How do you know? Because we aren't there yet. If they could do that, they would have already done it. The first things computers do is sexually harass each other. They send computer dick pics.

What would that even look like? I asked you the other day, what's the AI gender going to be? Has anyone decided or has it been talked about? Maybe that's what's going on with all this crazy push to accept 78 different gender pronouns and non-binary people and all this stuff that didn't exist in the past. Maybe we're moved. Maybe there's like a natural inclination in the human species to move towards

a genderless prototype of the future. We went into this in depth yesterday under the influence, obviously. We did a podcast where we're talking about like what an alien is, the archetype alien with the big head and the very thin body and the mouth the mouth it's like barely visible that I think that this is probably what we see ourselves becoming when we have some sort of a symbiotic relationship with technology with technology becomes a part of us when we have the ability to manipulate genes which is absolutely coming and then we have this enormous head which I mean look at our heads right it's not very practical enormous head Neil which, I mean, look at our heads, right?

It's not very practical, the enormous head. Neil deGrasse Tyson was talking about this recently. Whipping all over the place. They were talking, he was talking to Ray Kurzweil in a podcast that I was listening to. Ray Kurzweil, the futurist. And they were talking about the size of a human head. And that a human head could only get so big because of the mortality issue with the mother. Like, if the mother could not give birth, the head can only be so big because of the mortality issue with the mother like the if the mother could not give birth the head can only be so big and that it's also one of the reasons why folding over the skull and our heads are so big um that we have to be born like almost helpless as opposed to like

other animals that are born they're pretty pretty agile like right out of the box like a deer or a horse or something like that even primates like young primates have very little body fat on them and they're they're much stronger than a young human baby and that the design of the vagina in the head like leaves like litter room for advancement in the state that we are now as It's gone as far as it can go. But if we move away, I was thinking from vaginas, not vaginas, ladies. That's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is move towards some sort of, you know. A vat? Yeah, something.

Yeah. That can put together in some sort of a new concoction, some sort of a new artificial womb that doesn't have any size constraints. Why would you want a big head, though? Well, if you don't give a fuck about what you look like, the big head would allow you to see the future. You'd have massive cut. Like that.

That's a freaky one. That's not really a... Yeah, because it's a big head. Well, there's that version of the alien, or there's the bodybuilder alien from Prometheus, which seems less likely. That one, I didn't get that at all. He's just a grunt, I think.

Just a mess in your brain. Oh, you think so? Yeah. No, but I think with the big head thing, I don't get that at all. It's just a grunt, I think. Oh, you think so? Yeah. But I think with the big head thing, I don't think you need to grow bigger brains to be humans. You could probably do a lot better by having some kind of implant, some kind of silicon-type thing in there, a little computer running in your brain.

But what if you had a huge computer, like 100 iPhones? Dun, dun, dun. You can't really have bigger brains as well because there's a limit to the blood supply. Your brain is already using 30%. If you're using blood. So you can have oxygen tanks strapped to your back. What if we go away from all that stuff?

What if they figure out some sort of a fission way? Just have like a, whoa, what is this? What the? I saw before they pulled a lamb out and had it in an artificial womb and it survived for a few weeks at least. It was growing. Like a few weeks, it worked. A little, sort of.

Science fiction. Now what? Yeah. But I think that's entirely possible for the future. And then the idea of human beings moving away from biological bodies. And if they figure out a way to download consciousness which is one of kurzweil's things right they figure out a way to get to a point where consciousness is something that can be transferred yeah that's a freaky idea they're freaky to me because of someone like kim jong-un

he makes a thousand of himself and you know fucking puts them all over the world well it's like what if like you know your consciousness gets taken over but it's uh it you actually die whoa and you just this robot facsimile of you is what continues what if you make two copies of yourself yeah do you one of them is a skydiver you try out bull riding because if you can download someone's consciousness you can copy it you imagine if that's what you decided to do you just do all reckless shit with one of your bodies like you start mma fighting then would you like download that experience back into your other body yeah or just die no you would download it you'd have the other body on steroids and you have the other body like working out the olympic training center

and turn the other body into like a super athlete and then the the one that you're skydiving and doing backflips with. I think the augmented brains are going to come along before things like that. I think you're right. Yeah. Something with AI is coming along is like bots, chat bots on the internet, actually creating content. Yes.

Not just like creating, like talking things like posts on YouTube. They can create pictures like this. These, you know, these networks I was talking about can actually create videos that look like real videos. So I think you're going to get actual content creators, which are artificial intelligence, like YouTube personalities, that are actually artificial intelligence. Robots. Jesus. But some of them will be overt, like, you know,

here's Google's new bot posting on the internet going, hey, everybody, I'm Google. And then you'll get people, you'll get ai's pretending to be real people and then you'll get these ai's pretending to be real people in thousands if not millions of social media accounts trying to influence people wow and you talk about like you know botnets and things but they're just like people just posting shit like reposting nets and things but they're just like people just posting shit like reposting memes and things what if you get actually get an artificial intelligence that can actually hold a conversation with someone and an artificial intelligence that's actually more intelligent than the person that you're holding that is holding the conversation

with it will be able to manipulate that person and control them and since it's a computer doing it you could have thousands or millions of them and you could do all kinds of targeted like social media campaigns well don't they say that's going on right now yeah but they're not they're not actually like uh have it it's not an artificial intelligence having a real conversation with people we're on the verge of that but they do have artificial bots that will go out and attack people yeah they do have things on those simplistic things they're spamming things you can tell they're a bot fairly easily for now yeah yeah but we're getting to the stage where you won't be able to tell that it's a bot there'll be someone who would be you know in in a few

decades there'll be people there'll be artificial intelligences that will be just as intelligent as you or me and we'll be able to have the same conversations on social media that you and I can have on social media right now and people won't be able to tell the difference. There's this big famous test in AI which is the Turing test where the test is someone sits in a room

with a typewriter and they talk to the computer in the other room and if they can tell it's a computer then it passes the Turing test and it's meant to be intelligent and they can't tell that it's a computer yeah if you can't tell it's a computer yeah so there's been very limited successes with that if you like restrict the topics to just baseball or Britney Spears or something like that they have these very limited domains that they can talk about but if you get a general purpose AI that is actually intelligent and intelligent and has goals to change someone's mind about something like politics, you could have a real problem. Well, we were talking about Duncan and I yesterday.

We're saying think about someone creating an artificial version of him based on the hundreds of hours of his audio recordings. Yeah. Because he has so many podcasts, as do I. If somebody wanted to take a podcast like mine, where there's a thousand episodes, and take those thousand plus episodes and take my opinions and the way I describe things, the way I talk. I mean, if you're talking to me in a podcast like this, you're just talking to me. This is what I talk like. And you get a bunch of variables, right? You get me excited, me depressed, me shocked, me sad, me happy. You would have so much to choose from. Yeah.

Lots of source material. You could kind of fill in the blanks and guess pretty accurately how I would react or respond to certain things. Yeah. One of the episodes of Black Mirror, a British TV show. Great show. Yeah, it was about some woman whose husband had died,

but she had all this video of him. There was a service that set up an AI version of him, and it starts out small, like it was someone who would post on social media as him, and eventually it grew to be this big thing. Oh, don't tell me.

Don't spoiler alert me. All right. I just watched an episode of it the other day. I've been saving that one for you. I didn't want to tell you about it. Oh, please. Thank you. Thank you.

It's a good episode. Oh, it's so good. I watched one the other day about the video games. They put that thing in the back of your head. Did you see that one? It's in the new season. Yeah. That's all, for sure.

It's in the new season. God damn, it's good. That's a great show. New one's come out in a couple weeks. Ah! Three weeks it's good that's a great show one's come out in a couple weeks ah three weeks man it's a good show good mrs rogan does not like it though it's freaked out it is a bit creepy i think she hears too much of that shit from me too you know she just gets freaked out on technology in the future and yeah the possibilities but yeah like making a fake joe rogan is something that you know that is possible to a degree. Super easy. Right now, you can probably do something if they put enough resources in just Joe Rogan. Yeah.

They could have something. Because this type of the generative adversarial networks, this thing where they've got one judge and one generator. They'll have one AI that just tries to make Joe Rogans. And then they'll have another AI, an expert at detecting the make Joe Rogans. And then they'll have another AI that's an expert at detecting the real Joe Rogan. And it'll have all this real material to go by. And then this will keep feeding things to this and it'll say that's not quite right. He doesn't say like that.

He narrows his eyes when he's confused. Wow. And eventually it will come up with something that resembles you. Well then it becomes a thing of like how do you know you're you?, how do you know you're you? And how do you know you're talking to someone else that's them?

Like, here's the thing. Let's just say, why'd you leave this rubber dick just sitting right here, man? That's just rude. Chris Ryan gave me a rubber dick, sorry. I just noticed it. I looked over, had a comment.

Let's say if, say, your father died, which is one of Ray Kurzweil's big things. One of his primary motivations is to recreate his father. He lost his father and the images, that one day he will literally be able to communicate with his father again. I don't know if that's real, but I do know that someone like Duncan, say if my friend Duncan died, it's entirely possible that within the next 50 years, they're going to be able to create a version of duncan and duncan can come over and say hi dude i'm back hey crazy i was dead and and i won't even know i won't know if it's really duncan you've got to watch this episode of black mirror okay don't tell me anymore don't tell me anymore what is it for trying to remember where i found this i think it was an npr episode it might have been been on Radiolab. A thing called DadBot.

This guy made literally a text. He'd used all of his dad's past text messages between himself and him and then made an AI bot he could chat with. And I think his brother can use it too. They can just send generic messages like, hey, how are you doing? And he sends something that he would have sent back. Meanwhile, your dad's like, shut up, faggot. Your dad just says rude shit to you.

You little pussy. You're never going to amount to nothing. Oh, DadBot. Yeah, and if that's what your dad's like shut up faggot He does just as rude shit to you little pussy. You're never gonna amount to nothing. Oh dad bod Yeah, if that's what your dad was like You can probably tweak it a bit there yeah That's everything is coming though like you know his text now and it's not it's not like very good You'd be able to tell it's not a real person. Did you like Ex Machina? What was that the movie you never saw it oh yeah uh i did see it but i've i forget i forget movies very quickly that's a an amazing one what was the plot real quick the plot was there was like some this one right yeah yeah there was some when she's in a house super scientist who lived in the middle

of nowhere and they'd be flown into him and he had created that guy right there created artificial intelligence and then went over the turing test and everything in that too it's my one of my favorite movies that's that's one of my top 10 favorite movies of all time it hit so close to home and there were so little cut the shit in that movie you know i describe movies based on the cut the shit scenes like some movies like what oh fuck get cut the shit how the hell that happened there was none of that in that movie to me that in that movie to me was like wow like this uh this all could take place especially though with these you know those future robot things there's so much of it is just trying to make a robot that's just like a human when you

know the robots are not going to be like humans they're going to be like silence it's going to be you know more than humans by your command robots are doing work they're not going to be like humans. They're going to be like Cylons. There's going to be more than humans. By your command. Robots that are doing work, they're not going to really look like humans because it's not very practical. There will be robots that look exactly like humans, but that's just one aspect of robots. There's going to be all kinds of much more impressive robots.

Well, like, think of that tomato robot. It didn't have to look like a person. It just has to be functional. The way for it to be functional is not to look like a person. Exactly. It's to have these multiple fingers that can knock away these green tomatoes. Yeah. So why build something around the limitations of the human body?

This is the same guy that is in that Black Mirror episode, too. Oh, crazy. He plays the AI guy. Do you think they're going to do a reboot or a sequel to Ex Machina? I heard they were going to. Sure. Why wouldn't they? They fucking better.

It was a really good movie. It made a bunch of money. It was amazing. They better. I am worried about that. I am worried, and I'm also worried by the fact that guys like Elon Musk are worried. When someone like that worries and starts talking about it, I'm like, well, who is paying attention to this? I mean, how many people are really at the forefront? And is it possible to pull that back? Because I'm

aware of what the United States is up to in terms of like what gets printed in the news. Obviously I'm not really aware, but, um, when you get further than that, like China, Russia, like we don't, we have no idea what they're doing. Yeah, and they must be doing this type of thing. They must be. And if you don't, they will. And it's one of those things. AI is something they don't need this huge physical infrastructure.

They don't need a big military or anything to do cyber warfare with AI. Fuck. So they could be developing all this artificial intelligence to do things like infiltrate everybody's social media and make them vote for the different guy or just infiltrate all our power stations and shut them all down. That's one of the real problems that I have today with the conversations regarding politics, regarding whether or not Russia hacked the election, is because people are so concerned with painting out their party to be innocent and the other party to be guilty and describing all the different things that the Russians did and the interference people think about things if you have enough resources to attack an idea with propaganda through bots. And this is something that you see all the time. Yeah. A lot of the stuff that Russia did was posted in closed groups on Facebook.

So it's something that you really wouldn't be able to see happening. You'd have to be a part of the group. Yeah. So someone infiltrates. Yeah, they join these groups. Right. And they have not bots so much, but like workers. They have these sweatshops where all these people are typing away away doing all kinds of stuff uh pushing out these stories and they go into

these closed groups because it's harder for people to like figure out what's going on if you're in a closed group and they post all this stuff uh all these you know whatever anti-hillary memes or whatever right pro donald trump like pro bern Yeah, I saw one of them. They're trying to push a certain narrative. One of them where the guy got busted because he accidentally had on his location and showed that he was in Russia. And he's some guy with hashtag MAGA with the American flag and his avatar and the whole deal.

Yeah, it's going to be really hard to figure out exactly what happened. But it's going to be even harder in the future, though, because people will be covering the tracks a lot better. They're learning what works. But it's really hard to figure out what's real and what's not real right now. You know, remember Wag the Dog? What was that, like 20 years ago? In that movie, they described the possibility of faking these conflicts and having this fake video and

having movie directors film everything and that would influence the way people thought about world conflicts and now we're getting to the stage where that technology is a lot more uh a lot more realistic yeah faking videos you were pretty close there are things where you can uh take audio now and just basically sample audio and create anything that person might say. Yeah, that was a Radiolab podcast where they did it, and it's still a little crude, but like most things. I mean, you go back to the very first Oculus Rift, which was only a few years ago, and it was pixelated and clunky looking.

But if you look at the HTC Vive now their virtual reality is pretty spectacular yeah you can still tell it's not real but man the experience is so much more immersive yeah I remember reading a book back in the 90s I think it's less than zero uh by Bret Easton Ellis yeah and there's a scene in that where they they map somebody's face onto like a porn actor and at the time I thought that was the most ridiculously stupid thing I've ever heard of because it would never possibly work and there's no way of getting that degree of accuracy. And now I've got an app in my iPhone that actually does it

to a reasonable degree where it's quite hard sometimes to see what's going on. There's this thing called Mug Life, which is, yeah, it's just a toy app where you take a picture of yourself and it instantly, like, maps it onto a 3D face

and you can do all these expressions and you can say these things. It has these, like, meme generators and it's basically,

you know, it's that type of thing which I thought was ridiculous speculation like 20 years ago but now it's come to pass. Well, there's an article that I tweeted today about Gal Gadot, who is the woman from Wonder

Woman. They've take, they use an algorithm and they tape her face onto a porn video. Yeah. So they have her doing porn and it looks just like her. You can kind of tell a little bit that it's not her, but not much. It's enough where you're like, whoa, they're going to get really good at this, and then they'll be able to have you doing anything. You could be a murderer.

They can have you outside murdering people, and they put that on the news. And then by the time they retract it, they say, oh, Mick West wasn't really out there just gunning people down. It was someone else. Your neighbors don't trust you anymore. You have to move. The damage is done. You know, and that's not that I support like a lot of the fucking hysterics and the craziness that Trump tweets and all the different shit that he tweets.

But occasionally they get things wrong and they make stories about him like the CNN Russia story where they had to fire those three. Yeah. Yeah. Well, after they had fired those reporters who had made these erroneous connections and had this flaw-ridden piece, they fired them. But the story had already been written. Like, this is, I guess there's a rush to get things out there. And they're trying very hard. I guess there's a rush to get things out there, and they're trying very hard.

But you've got to be very careful because once something's out there, that initial thing of being out there is so much more powerful than any retraction. Yeah, it's really hard to get retractions out there because the original thing just goes so much more than the retraction. Yeah, especially if it's crazy. Like the Roy Moore thing, which is going on right now. There's the election today. There's a thing where they said that his signature was fake because the ink

on the image was like black on one side and blue on the other side so they said oh this must have been faked because the Roy is black and the Moore is blue so I was looking into that and I did some experiments where I did a signature

and then held it at an angle and took photos of it and I found out that there's this type of chromatic aberration from the camera which just does that with ink and it's very easy to duplicate and you can show that this was actually what was going on in this image and then you can look at other images of the signature from different angles which show that it's all black so there's this one image on cnn that showed this blue and black ink and uh then i figured out that it was just this trick of the camera but even though it's been debunked and explained this people are still spreading the exact same thing around right that's not real and that could be a problem it could swing the election yeah and it's time limited that type of thing like you know it's done today after today it doesn't really matter there was also uh something about him

writing something in someone's yearbook yeah that was the the yearbook thing right was the the thing was they said that the woman had forged the entry to the yearbook but that's not the case what she had done was written the date. And the note, the oldie, Pickery House. Yes. She wrote that on a date. But she didn't forge the actual words. But that's a problem. The problem is that she did do it and she didn't say she did it.

There's so many people want that to be true, that it was forged. Right. That if you can take something that's slightly problematic, like her not saying that she actually added this annotation afterwards yeah and then you can say that that you know she admitted to it being forged right which is basically a lie but it it will stick for long enough it doesn't really matter that it's a lie because you know in you know by the end of the today it doesn't really matter at all so all he had to do was get this story out there he had enough stuff in it to make it seem vaguely

plausible to people who wanted to believe that she she forged it did she forge the date and did she try to say that that date was was written by him she added a note underneath that had the date but he had also written the date above he wrote wrote, like, you know, to a sweeter, more darling girl, I could never say, Merry Christmas, Roy Moore, 77. Right. And then underneath, she had written Old Hickory House, 1977. And did she try to claim that he had written that? Originally, it seemed like she was saying that he'd written the whole thing. Oh.

Originally, it seemed like she was saying that he'd written the whole thing. Oh. And she read out the inscription, and she said, Roy Moore wrote this in my book, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she read the annotation at the end. Was the annotation at the end recent? Yeah. I think she said she wrote it afterwards, after she... Oh, in 1978 or some shit? No, the same day.

Oh, so how the fuck could she even remember? How do you remember what you wrote down from 1977? And the handwriting is a bit different between them. It was fairly obvious that it wasn't the same handwriting from the start. I don't think that's like her today trying to frame him. That seems more like she was just documenting it at the time and forgot. If anything, it makes it more realistic. So if she was going to forge it, she would have forged the whole thing.

She's talking about something 40 years ago. This whole thing of trying to... Someone saying that this definitely happened 40 years ago is, to me, so bonkers. How the hell could you... This is a real problem with the news. One of the Al Franken accusers we were talking about yesterday claimed that Al had grabbed her waist and squoze her fat in some sort of way. She's talking about something 10 years ago.

You absolutely remember what happened in something so inconsequential 10 years ago? That seems insane to me. Now you add 30 years onto that and I'm just calling bullshit. Yeah, you can't really remember that level of detail after so long. I mean, even if, I mean, it would have to be something really significant. But even then you know about

creative memories and how people's memories change over time. Yes. A lot of people claim they remember where they were when they heard about the space shuttle blowing up, the first one. Yeah. People have done extensive research into that, like tracking people's stories over like a decade or so. And they found that like a significant percentage of people changed their stories 10 years later.

Sure. As to about where they were. So like for something, you know, like harassment or something like that it's entirely possible that the story could change does yeah it's false but it's just possible that it could change but it's just there they're conveniently forgetting or ignoring that human memory is insanely flawed and malleable yeah I think part of you know that's why we have statute of limitations because things like eyewitness testimony essentially degrades over time.

That's one of the things that I'm really hoping is going to be cured with technology. I'm hoping we're going to give up our bullshit biological memory for a fat SD card they stick in the back of your head. Just pop that sucker in there and click, click. And you'll have all

of your memories entirely accurate like uh that was a black mirror episode yes those motherfuckers are on top of everything they know everything but i really think that that's entirely possible in the future that there's going to be some way we have a neural interface with some sort of a recording device that's far more accurate and that will all. And that we'll all agree to it. We'll all agree to it. Just like photographs. Like if Jamie is standing next to you and I say, Jamie and Mick West were in the room together and take a picture.

It used to be that I could say, well, that's definite because I have this photo. But now with Photoshop and video editing tools, so even then, so what am I talking about? Because even then your memories are going to be able to create artificial memories. You're going to have the artificial intelligence getting into your brain and creating memories for you. Well, wasn't that like Total Recall, right? Wasn't that part of the idea of Total Recall?

They could put you, put like fake memories in your brain and have you have fake experiences? There's a lot of experiences that were gigantic to me. Like all of my years of martial arts competition, if you had asked me to accurately depict some of the most significant memories of my life from age 16 to 21, like all those martial arts fights that I had,

I wouldn't even be able to touch it. I have zero, I have like flashes. Yeah, I was starting to forget all the stuff I did at Neversoft when I was working on Tony Hawk. Like I just got interviewed for, they're doing a documentary about the making, well, about the history of Neversoft and Tony Hawk. And the guy's interviewing me and I'm like, I can't remember. Yeah. And it was like, some of it was like 20 years ago. But it's that type of thing that I thought I would never forget.

Right. Because it was such a significant part of my life, but it's just kind of dropping away over the years. I think that happens a lot with people looking back on 9-11 and they're going by their memories of what happened that day. And it changes. Your memory changes. Yeah. There's a few things that I remember because there's some significance to it.

Like I remember the space shuttle thing because I was over at an ex-girlfriend's house and it was one of the few times that we saw each other before we had completely stopped seeing each other. Like we had kind of broken up and then I'd driven out to our house to visit her. And then while I was over at her house, we saw the launch. We were like, holy shit. We actually saw the replay of it blowing up and we were like, whoa, like this is fucked.

See, some people, they see the replay and then they remember that as seeing the actual event itself live. And so they think they saw it live. So that becomes a memory. I'm pretty good at that. I'm pretty good at going over my memories to make sure that I'm... You think you are.

Yeah. You think you are. Maybe you're not. Maybe you should go back and check some of these memories. Dun, dun, dun. Find your ex-girlfriend and ask her if that really happened. I remember very clearly where I was when Sam Kinison died. I remember definitely where I was when 9-11 happened.

Yeah. Because I got some calls from friends and they woke me up. My phone kept ringing. I remember that because I remember being in my house. I remember turning on the TV. That's 100%. I was driving to work. I was on the 405.

So I remember that. It seems to me very solidly. Seems. There are details around that. I remember I went to Taco Bell on the way to get some food because I thought it might be a long day. Because of the tax? Now I can't remember now. I went to a gas station.

I think I went to Taco Bell. Dang it. Now I'm starting to forget what happened on 9-11. I remember the day because I spent it with Eddie and Joey Diaz and a couple other friends of mine. We went to a burrito joint on Sunset in Hollywood. And we were just talking about how there's no flights. Because we'd heard that the flights end. Like, look, man, you see a plane in the sky.

This is weird. It felt weird. We felt like we were stuck in California. Whereas like the freedom of air travel is something that if you don't fly a lot, you don't think about. But if you really do, if they pull it away, there's no more air travel. You're like, what?

We're stuck here. How long does it take to drive to Colorado? Dude, that's 16 hours. Shit. You don't think about it. Going back in time in a way. Yes. Different time. Well, at least you have cars. You can take the train. Shit. Like you don't think about it. Going back in time in a way. Yes. Different time. Yeah. Well,

at least you have cars. You'd say the train. Yeah. So is there anything else that we, um, we might disagree on? Hmm. I may disagree on.

I don't know. What, uh, I think we, I think we agree on the flat earth stuff. Uh, no. You think the earth is round, right?

What about, uh, I changed my tune. No. You think the earth is round, right? What about... I changed my tune. What about DeLong? Matt DeLong. What's that one? The guy who from Blink-182. Tom DeLong. Tom DeLong.

Oh, he's out of his fucking mind. I can't remember people's names. Poor bastard. Yeah, he's got some weird shit going on. And since that podcast, a bunch of people have pointed out to me that he is essentially, they're selling stock in a company. Yes. Yeah. They're selling stock.

And also he gets a guaranteed payout. Yeah. Of like, I think $100,000 a year or something like that. Well, whatever it is. Regardless of how much money they take in or what they make. If you get enough rubes to keep donating money to this... I mean, he keeps saying, stay tuned. Things are going to happen. Yeah, he said there's going to be some videos released.

Yeah, when did he say that? Like nearly a month ago now, I think. Dude, when he was on the podcast, he played some videos for us that were like absolutely UFOs. And I almost pissed my pants laughing. They were so bad. It was so bad one of them was so fucking bad i was like dude if that was in a movie i would want my money back i would be angry so like what i mean is he a crazy guy or is he like a smart guy who's making money

i do not know i think he must he must like this this stuff he loves otherwise it stay singing and making money yeah but the conversation i, there's two ways to approach this. And I tried to be respectful because I'm the host. And he agreed to come here and he wanted to talk about this. So I tried to be respectful and let this guy talk. And what he was saying to me was so ridiculous. I was like, I don't even have to challenge him on this because it's so obviously ridiculous.

Everyone is going to see that it's ridiculous. I was wrong. There was a lot of people that listened to that podcast that I saw on Twitter that thought that what he was saying was mind blowing. Yeah. And this is real. Those are the people that are going to donate. Exactly.

Right. Now, is there a problem with that? Is there a problem with that? Is there a problem with the Catholic Church? Because they're full of shit too. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Catholic Church is essentially a money-making franchise. And they don't have to pay taxes.

At least he has to pay taxes. I mean, is there a problem with conning rubes out of money? There's loads of, like, kickstarters for technology things that just couldn't possibly work. Like, there's these, like, clear-air holograms. They say you'll be able to play video games

on the table in front of you. Oh, yeah, there's GoFundMes for people that don't have illnesses. Yeah. There's, like, one where they had a water bottle that would magically take water out of the air. I saw that one. Yeah, but it won't actually work.

It would take like three days to fill the bottle if you were in a rainforest. And it would require like a solar panel that's like this big. I saw that one. It's far easier

to bring your own water. But they raised like two million dollars. And what do they have to do with that money? Are they allowed to keep it? They can keep it if they wanted to.

Wow. The Kickstarter, I think it's Kickstarter, has this like open thing where you know it's you're developing a prototype so it doesn't actually have to work wow so what happens with that so all those people is this it is this the fontos yeah no they're still going i think they might have like that's indiegogo though they might have been on a couple of different platforms yeah one of them is more uh

more relaxed than the other in terms of what it will allow like one of them now you've got to have a working prototype the self-filling water bottle yeah it's it's bullshit it can't possibly work he's the guy who created it yeah a lot of these uh they're like eastern european like scientist types who do things like this so they made it look like this dude is just driving around, and then this water bottle is going to pull it out of air, and then he can just pull it out of the tube, and wow, look, I've got water all of a sudden. Yeah.

It's dipshit. It can't possibly work. It uses a real technology, like these little electrical things actually cool things down and condense things, and it will actually condense a little bit, but hardly anything. would take a long ass time for that to fill a water it's basically a dehumidifier i don't know if you have like uh like a dehumidifier i have the opposite i have a humidifier because california is dry if you ever have a dehumidifier it will eventually fill up the container of the dehumidifier but this is this thing powered by plugging it into the wall and

it's this big machine and it still takes all day to fill up the reservoir right so they're saying like a little water bottle this size with a little solar panel and this little condensing thing that's this big we'll fill it up in a few hours well maybe it's like that uh physically impossible physical face technology swapping thing like 20 years ago was impossible but 20 years from now yeah maybe they're playing the long game with this water bottle you can improve computers but you can't really improve the laws of physics you can only get so much water out of the parcel parcel of air so they would have to have some sort of better mechanism for extracting it than what they're doing yeah yeah there's a i mean there's there's certainly a lot of scams out there i don't know if that's what he's doing

um when i talked to people that knew him from a long time ago, he's been obsessed with UFOs forever. So his obsession seems to be legitimate. However, when I was talking to him about all the events and I was like, tell me what happened. You got a guy contacted you. Well, I can't say who, I can't say, I can't say what it was. I can't tell you that we can't get into that. That's all bullshit. When someone starts talking like that, they're full of shit of shit he he definitely seemed to be a combination of deceptive and delusional well the the slides that he used in the talk to illustrate there was like a an event of some UFO buzzing a aircraft

carrier and some fighter jets were going after it and they couldn't find it and they put up some slides on the screen there which looked like a shiny silver penis flying around uh and it's actually something that the type of thing we do on metabung is identify objects like that so we figured out what this was and it's actually a number one numerical helium balloon like the digit one oh wow like someone's like from a party yeah and I found like a bunch of other shots of the same thing where you can see it rotating you can see it's fairly clear it's this number one but it's on this this this conspiracy website they thought it was a UFO so he got it off that and so this is

a UFO took the image kind of degraded a bit so you can't reach out what it was it was quite hard for me to track it down because he'd mess with it so much it was actually just this just helium balloon that was a white that was shiny what's disturbing to me is that he's uh got this business that you know claims to be some sort of aerospace business and he's involved in it with all these other people that's weird because the guy who's running that uh I can't remember his name, Fortune or something like that, is like a real guy who worked at Lockheed Martin or somewhere when the skunk works. Maybe started doing Adderall, started getting crazy. What he's talking about, it makes no sense whatsoever.

He says our mission is to take what the science division gives us and we'll turn that science into flying craft. Right. But the science division, it doesn't really exist. Right. They've got like a guy who's like, one guy who's interested in like shooting things with lasers to make them go fast. Yeah, that was one of the weird things.

Yeah, that's kind of a real technology. You can use a laser to power a craft. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about some kind of craft that warps the very nature of time and space itself yeah and uh kind of like right rides a wave of a wormhole or something like that yeah and this guy thinks that it's plausible and all they have to do is kind of like try really really hard if they all put their heads together and like this scientist do all this science a lot and then these builders do their really good really good building based on these really good science. They're gonna get then they'll they'll get this flying craft

Yeah, it's nonsense. That's gonna happen hasn't having people donated some something like two million dollars or some goofy Yes, how many fucking people have done that? See if you can find that out 2092 2092 people have donated? It's over $2 million. Wow. So that's $1,000 each. That's a lot. That seems wrong. I know.

The numbers have changed frequently. Well, the numbers seem really high in terms of the amount of donations. It's very odd that you're going to get 2,000 people to donate $1,000 each. That doesn't seem right to me. Yeah, there could be a few very large donors that are somehow convinced to donate via this. Well, there are a lot of really fucking crazy old people

that believe in this shit and they might have a ton of money. What's that red line meant to represent? It kind of looks like a rod. UFOs, bro! They're flying right above. Alright. To the stars! Academy of Arts and Science.

That's what kills me. What kind of arts? What are you doing? Fingerprint? I was tracking those numbers for a while, and they were going up unproportionately, if that's the correct word to say, from each other. The investor number was going up

while the dollar number was sort of staying the same. So maybe he was calling these people, if you can double your offer, I can get you on the first ship. It's a minimum of $200, I think. Really? Yeah, it's on the small print down there. So some large donations.

It's amazing, though, that they've donated $2 million to this wacky-ass fucking company. Yeah, and all the company is required to do is pay DeLong a hundred thousand dollars a year, uh, for I think the next seven years or something.

And, uh, that's it really. The crazy thing too, was that they, that he had been contacted by the government because they knew that he could go on shows like mine and talk about this. Then he would have a platform because he's a rock star.

I was like, what? Like, this is like some, why didn't the government stop him yeah this is like some bad movie shit like this narrative is like a bad movie it's like people like say like they don't want to talk to me on the phone because they're afraid of the government tracking them down and assassinating them or whatever but it's like, I'm talking to you on Facebook. Well, if I really was like this,

you know, agent of the government, it wouldn't be very hard to just say, you know, get rid of this guy. That's a big one they like to pull on you because you debunk things.

You're an agent of the government. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really hard one to get around. I think that my approach there is just to be

as honest as possible all the time. So I always tell them exactly who I am. I made lots of money doing the Tony Hawk video games. I'm just like a British video game programmer. Basically give my life story. Yeah. They don't buy it.

They don't. They're not buying it, pal. They don't. But, yeah, I think some of them, it helps telling them about Tony Hawk. Yeah. Because a lot of them actually are fans of Tony Hawk. That's funny, actually. Well, it's one of those things where if you don't want to believe, you're not going to.

That's a likely cover story for a guy. And then they'll go super deep. Oh, the government has infiltrated video games in order to keep kids stupid. They've created these games in order to mess with the kids' minds. One reaction I get quite a bit is that I am stupid. That you're stupid? Yeah, a lot of people will say that I am really stupid. There's people who are in the Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth type thing

who think that I'm really stupid and don't understand physics at all. And so they say that I'm not a a government agent i'm just this really stupid dude who doesn't understand what actually happened at 9-11 useful idiot right yeah uh and not just a useful idiot in that sense but a person who uh is just mistaken right they just so then they can dismiss my videos by laughing at them right like i do lots of little videos where I do things like demonstrate how something buckles, like a column buckling when you put a load on it. You go, dunk. Right. Or

things like that. Just physics videos. And then they just say, you're an idiot. We don't need to look at this video. So it's a way of getting around the problem. And a lot of other people say that I'm so smart about chemtrails and things like that that i must be a government agent because i know so much about contrails so i get both sides of

am i they're a really smart government agent or i'm just a stupid uh useful idiot well it's just them looking at you and trying to find some way to dismiss what you're saying but you you really get a kick out of debunking shit i do it's fun i like doing the backyard science stuff there was a thing i did recently where uh yeah some the scientists were saying that the bits falling off the world trade center were leaving trails that must be from the rocket motors that are pushing them away from the world trade center so i said no it's probably just uh some some dust on it and they said no it wouldn't do that he wouldn't leave a long trail so i got a big sledgehammer and i piled some some ashes on it from my fireplace and then i stood on top of a wall and i was throwing this sledgehammer with a big trail of dust coming from it for like half

an hour videoing myself doing it until i got some some representative videos of it it's just fun to do it is kind of fun you know one of the ones that kept coming up that I thought was the most ridiculous one about the flat earth was I had read this a couple of places where people were talking about ships disappearing on the horizon. Yeah. And then the ship disappeared. But if you pulled out optics, you zoom in, you could still see the ship. Yeah.

And I was like, well, how come you can't see Mount Everest, motherfucker? Why can't you look towards Japan? Where's Mount Kilimanjaro? Get up. How come you can see towards Japan? Where's Mount Kilimanjaro? Get up. How come you can see the moon? You can see the moon if you get a good telescope, you can see the moon really clearly.

Take that telescope, don't point at the moon, point across the ocean. Where's the mountains? It's the atmosphere. Oh, the atmosphere. Yeah, the kind of advanced version. You know I was talking about

how architects and engineers from 9-11 have to do this really advanced thing now because we've debunked the basic stuff so they have to move to this advanced stuff same thing with uh flat earth people now they kind of you demonstrate how things actually do go over the horizon and mountains do get obscured by the horizon and you know how the sun sets and things like that and so they come up with this complicated explanation where there's this kind of giant uh refractive lens of atmosphere above the Earth, which is bending all the light from the sun in such a way that the Earth appears to be round, even though it's actually flat. Which kind of begs the question, like, how do they actually know it's round if it looks, how do they know it's flat if it looks round?

actually know it's round if it looks how do they know it's flat if it looks round right so they've got like you know things are disappearing over the horizon as if it looks round because of this refraction thing but they think it's flat but if it looks round why are they thinking it's flat well the thing that killed me was that you could zoom in on it and that proved that the that it wasn't actually disappearing over the horizon i know a little bit about optics because of my uh fascination with the outdoors i have a bunch of binoculars spotting scopes of various power and there's things you just cannot see but then you get a good spotting scope on them so with the naked eye like there's things you can't see with the naked eye you would swear they do you can't see with the naked eye. You would swear they do not exist. They're not there. But then you get a great spotting scope on them and you can see

them miles away. And that's the thing with ships. You get a large ship it goes far enough away you can't see it anymore. And you'll be convinced that it's disappeared over the horizon when in fact it's only probably a couple inches lower on the horizon

as far as, like, the curve of the Earth, but to the naked eye, it's invisible. So when they zoom in on it, they're convinced that, aha, there is no curvature of the Earth. See, this looked like it went over the horizon, but it's an optical illusion. Yeah, and the thing is they've been shown this so many times that this actually happens. There's so many videos now on YouTube that actually demonstrate this thing, like there's time lapses of ships going over the horizon like zoomed in all the way with the P900 cameras which do

like an 83 times zoom, as big as you can go. It's been demonstrated. They just ignore it or they say it's all made up. They ignore it because it's not in their same YouTube queue. You know, if you look at the you're playing the flat earth video, all the queue to the right is like Flat Earth exposed.

Yeah, some of those get hundreds of thousands of views. There's this one guy, Dr. Zach, who's... I don't know where he is. He's like a foreign guy who does these... Russian. Yeah. He does these Flat Earth videos and they're all mathematically showing things in AutoCAD with

lines and stuff and he gets like 400,000 views. It's amazing. It's bizarre. Well, it's just amazing that so many people get into this and they buy into it. Do you see that one where that young man took a spirit ruler, a spirit level on an airplane? Yeah. He was flying around an airplane and was convinced. Daryl Martin is the guy's name.

He lives in a van. Does he? Yeah, he has a bunch of videos guy's name. He lives in a van. Does he? Yeah, he has a bunch of videos on van life. He's a cool guy. He's a very nice guy, but he's got this weird idea about the flat Earth. It's so ridiculous. I've had a few YouTube battles with him. Oh, battles.

Where he puts up something about how the moon is cooling things, and he has this thermometer thing where he's showing that the moon is actually making things cold. Then I put up a video explaining why it's just a reflection because infrared thermometers don't work that way. And then he puts another thing like debunk this, Mick West.

And I kind of gave up at that point. It was a very short battle. Well, the weird thing is that they see all these other planets as round but they decide that the earth is flat that it's some sort of a flat disc yeah they think they're different though yes they think the planets are just like these tiny little balls that are like you know two miles wide or something and they think the earth is really close to the sun yeah they think it's about 4 000 miles, some of them think it's only four miles away.

Oh, you fucking idiots. But they think the distance to the sun varies depending on the observer. Like, it's observer-dependent. Oh, like where you are? Yeah. If it's only four miles away, imagine if you drive away, it just gets super small. Like, what the fuck? Yeah, I mean, it makes gets super small. Like, what the fuck? Yeah.

I mean, it makes no sense. It's so ridiculous. But it's just, to me, it's such a strange thing to concentrate on that this is like their identity is wholly invested in proving this thing to be some sort of a massive conspiracy. It's very, very, very strange. They love it. You love it? They love it.

You love it too, though. You love debunking it. That's the thing. It's like bit. You love it. They love it. You love it. You love debunking That's the thing. It's like it's it's a rabbit hole for debunkers. Yeah, there's a flyer. You just get sucked into it It's one of the best ones because it's so silly it is There's no and then here's the thing that people send me people like I don't know if they're trolling me or if they're serious They'll send me a picture of a glacier and I go, there's your fucking, your ice wall. Yeah, they show you the Ross Ice Shelf or something like that. Like an actual ice shelf in Antarctica.

Yeah, you can look up the picture and see what it actually was. And they think there's a government. The government is like guarding the ice wall all around so you can't get near it and take pictures of it. Yeah. The thing like the Southern Hemisphere is a huge problem for the uh for the flat earthers yeah because you can you can have like somebody

standing on like the south of south america someone in australia and they're both looking south which on a disc would be away right looking completely different directions and they're both actually yeah because they're both fairly close to each other really they're looking at the same stars in the sky yeah and there's there's even like the really complicated explanations for the flat earth don't explain that so it's like one of the the hard irrefutable proofs of a round earth well they also is a constellation they keep changing their story based on what gets debunked like the big one that dubay was saying forever every photograph of Earth from space is a composite Well, that's not true. They have full-scale full image

High-resolution photographs from the Himawari eight. Yeah, those are fake then they decided those are fake So at first it was those their composites. Yeah, you know, which there was some composites from lower satellites and then blue marble thing That's how that got started as the famous issue a famous image of the blue marble Which is a NASA very high resolution image that they did back in like the 90s From composites because they wanted to get something which had all of the landmass without any clouds on right So they had to take loads and loads of pictures and just take the bits that had no clouds on and then stitch them all together. Right.

And then they created this thing. And then they did a separate one that had just the clouds, and then they could put them together and move them around and stuff. How many different satellites are taking full Earth images? Probably around 30 or 40. How many of those are run by government shills? They're all run by government.

Actually, not all run by government. Well, Himawari 8 is the Japanese one. Yeah, there's a Russian one, which is about the same. There's actually two Russian ones. There's a European one, Meteosat. The American high-resolution one just went up a few months ago. It's offline at the moment because they're moving it from one side of the united states to the other damn they're moving it how long does that take

a few days jesus now um yeah how the fuck do they do that little little jets oh yeah yeah you've seen uh gravity yeah that's how things move around there you go and things move in the opposite direction and then suddenly they anchor it in that spot that is something that confuses people gravity. Yeah. That's how things move around. They go poof and things move in the opposite direction. And then suddenly they anchor it in that spot? That is something that confuses people is how do rockets work in space? They think that because there's no atmosphere in space

there's nothing to push against. So how does a rocket actually work in space? How does it? It's action and reaction. If you throw something in this direction, you will move in the opposite direction. Ah, I reaction. If you throw something in this direction, you will move in the opposite direction. Ah, I see. If you sit in your chair, take a big bowling ball or something, throw it in that direction really fast, you'll move back a bit. Right. So if

you get like an air hose and you point it in that direction and you're standing on ice or something, you'll move in the opposite direction. It doesn't matter if there's air. You throw something that way, there has to be a reaction in the opposite direction okay that makes sense um a lot of those guys don't even believe in satellites yeah they don't because how could they they think that they think that signals are bounced off the ionosphere there's no satellite yeah but you can you can see the satellites yeah Yeah. You can see them. You can see the space station. You can see it fly overhead. And I get emails whenever it's going to fly overhead.

And I go out and have a look. And you can see I've taken pictures of it. You can see the solar panels in the photographs that I've taken. Wow. And it always appears exactly where NASA says it's going to appear. Everywhere in the world. That's the other problem with these people that don't believe in satellites is that how are we tracking the weather then? How do we know exactly when the hurricanes are coming in?

Yeah, weather balloons. Yeah. Yeah. in particular like the flat earth stuff is young kids wasting their time on stupid shit when the world is filled with massive real mysteries and incredibly fascinating things that you should be diving in and learning about i think there's a great opportunity for teaching kids with things like flatter yes because you can do real experiments to determine that the Earth is not flat. Also, maybe even more importantly, teaching them about traps, thinking traps. Yes.

The mind can allow you to go down. You can teach them how to debunk. You can say, this guy is saying that ships should reappear when we zoom in. How do we test this? And then they can go out and test it. Yeah. Well, that one was so stunningly stupid to me. And then I don't even want to go into the flat earth thing anymore.

But it's the thinking behind it that's the problem. The thinking that every single airline pilot, everyone involved in commercial shipping, everyone involved in aerospace, everyone who makes satellites, all those people are lying. Every cartographer, everyone, all the map makers, they're all full of shit. Everyone has agreed to not tell everyone else about the ice wall.

If the earth was flat and there was an ice wall, scientists would detail it and they would explain why the earth was flat and they would show you a working model of the earth being flat and that's what they would teach in school there would be no there's no benefit whatsoever to describing the earth in a shape that it doesn't exist in and it would be obvious that the earth was flat because you could be able to do like really simple tests yourself You would see boats not going over the horizon. It's just so disturbing to me. You would see the sun get smaller as it gets further away.

The sun stays exactly the same size throughout the day. Sunrise, noon, sunset, all exactly the same size. The moon does the same thing. Why does the moon look so much bigger, though, when it's on the horizon? What's that about? Optical illusion. What is it? Is it a perspective issue?

Yeah, it's just the horizon. What's that about? Optical illusion. What is it? Is it a perspective issue? Yeah, it's just the way your brain works. If you take photographs of it, like on the horizon, and then another photograph of it when it's right up there, and compare them side by side, if you're the same zoom settings, it's exactly the same. That's interesting, because it really does look larger when it gets lower. Yeah, it's purely psychological. The harvest moon, right?

Yeah. What is the harvest moon? Isn't that that big old harvest moon, right? Yeah. What is the harvest moon? Isn't that that big old red moon or something? That's the blood moon. That's the eclipse. It's had the beaver moon, too. Beaver moon? The beaver moon.

The really big one. I didn't know about a beaver moon. I didn't either until they said it. There's the super moon, which is when the moon is just very close to you. What is the supermoon? How much closer is the supermoon? It's not much closer. Really?

It actually only gets about 8% bigger than its smallest. It's actually very hard to see that it's actually any bigger if you put them side by side. That's a lot, though. You see these news stories about supermoon. Go look at the supermoon tonight. When it's not that much difference. Oh, wow. That looks a little bit different. That's the very smallest moon and the very largest moon.

Most of the time it's going to be somewhere in between that so you're not really going to notice the difference. Alright, anything else we should cover before we wrap this up? Yeah. Let me look at my list. I have to write lists because my memory is so bad nowadays. I've offloaded everything.

You're a stand-up comedian, so you've got to be able to memorize all this stuff. Well, not only that, I have to memorize fights too. I have UFC information in my head, and I have comedy information in my head. But if you ask me to do my act that I did from last year, like that I filmed for my Netflix special, I wouldn't be able to do it. Yeah. Looking at my list and we've kind of covered most of the things that are on here. We could go over

some like 9-11 crap if you wanted to, but. I'm tired of it all. That's the thing about it at this stage of my life. It seems when there's so many incredible things to pay attention to that are real, you know, and this is what I feel like about all this stuff where people are looking into conspiracies that they're just nonsense. It's like they're chasing their tail. They're trying to confirm something where there's so much evidence that it's not real, that it just really bothers me. It drives me nuts. And I just don't understand it. And I don't, I just, I wish that it wasn't a problem.

I wish it wasn't an issue, you know, and it is. And it's one of the reasons why I continue to talk about these things. And I really want to shine as much light on them as possible. So there's a real pattern that you could fall into and you can waste a tremendous amount of time in your life if you start looking at things incorrectly. And Flat Earth to me is the best example of it. It's the best example because it's so stupid. I mean, it's so utterly preposterous that everyone is lying and that there are no images

at all of this Flat Earth, but yet this one guy or a couple of guys, and I had heard that it had started all out as a troll on 4chan, is that they had started doing this like way back in, you know, like... It could have been, but the flat earth thing

goes back to the 1800s. Right, but that people had like reignited it. Yeah. They were just using that as a, like, you know, shitposting was what we talked about last time yeah shit posting

but people have always believed in the flight of yeah alright let's wrap it up Mick West alright so metabunk.com

if anybody wants to go .org .org pardon me and my upcoming book Escaping the Rabbit Hole when is that coming out next September but

have you finished it have you done nearly done nearly done yes okay excellent alright Mick West everybody we'll be back tomorrow with UFC Heavyweight coming out? Next September. Have you finished it? Are you done? Nearly done. Nearly done. Okay, excellent. Alright, Mick West, everybody. We'll be back tomorrow with UFC heavyweight champion

Stipe Miocic. See you then. ... ... ... ... ...