The Joe Rogan Experience - #1060 - Remi Warren

Episode Date: January 4, 2018

Remi Warren is a hunter, guide, writer, tv host and solo adventurer. Check out his show "Apex Predator" at http://apexpredator.tv

Five, four, three, two... Boom, and we're live. Remy Warren, International Man of Adventure. How's it going? Good. Good to see you, man. Good to see you. I purposely didn't ask you or talk to you about the grizzly bear attack,

because I wanted to save it. You wanted... What is it like to have survived, literally being, what are you, two feet away from an attack in grizzly bear? Yeah, pretty close. Like you could have grabbed it. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. Easily. Easily.

Oh, it was, that was just nuts. It was one of those things, okay, I've thought about it a million times. I'm sure. How long ago was this? This was, so that would have been early October or mid October. So you've had three months, three months to kind of think about it. Yep. And, uh, yeah, man, it's just one of those things that I've thought about it so many times in my head. And I've always been, I think Steve was the same way. Like, Oh, it'd be pretty cool to, uh,

survive a bear attack. It scratched up a little bit. After that experience, I thought to myself, if that never happens again, I'll be okay. Yeah, Steve used to always say, Steve Reneau, we're talking about from the Meat Eater podcast, and he has a two-part series on this particular bear attack. But he used to always say he wanted to get clawed across the chest and have like not a tattoo, but like a big claw. Yes. I'm like, what? A little bit of marking.

Like what are the odds that that happens? Yeah. I think that in order to get that, you have to go through a really, really horrible experience. And there's guys that have had those attacks or there's guys that have had those attacks a lot. But I mean, I've been around a lot of wild animals and seen a lot of things and been charged by bears and this was just different it was that kind of attack where while it's happening you're going this is not gonna pan out well somebody's gonna die something either you're just looking at this bear and it's coming in hot and just everything. It's a weird experience.

You don't, your memory's a little foggy of it. Everything happened so fast, but it felt like it was so long. So the adrenaline just must overwhelm your brain. I think so. Yeah. And you don't even think about,

I just remember it was, it was a weird situation. So maybe I'll just kind of recap the story. So we're, we're on a F Fognac Island and we're hunting. And a Fognac Island is in Alaska. Yeah. So a Fognac Island has some of the largest bears in the world. They're brown bears.

They are big brown bears. They can be over 1,000 pounds. So we're hunting elk there. My brother and myself have hunted elk on that island before and it's just a miserable place to be what's a fascinating hunt the way you guys were describing it because the just the fact that you would choose out of all the places you can go you pretty much can go anywhere you want yeah you chose to go on this brutal adventure hunt because it's so difficult and because

once, is it because, like Rinella was talking about this once and the way he described it is like, there's things that are fun while you're doing them, but they're not fun later, like roller coasters. And then there's things that are terrible and awful, but you'll think about them forever and look

back at them fondly. Yeah, that's exactly what this is. It's that after the fact, you think back and you go, in the moment, you go, I will never do this again. And then about a year later, you go, I should do that again. It's weird. And what is it about the place that's so miserable? Well, it's just, it's hard to walk through. It looks easy hiking. And there's just this big mountain where you can get to with a plane you've kind of got to climb this big mountain and the the vegetation is so thick

and it's so steep that it takes forever to go somewhere so to put it in perspective to go say a mile might take five hours whoa that's how much vert like a map mile yeah so the way the crow would fly if you're just going a mile. And then another distance could take you half that time or a quarter of that time, but there's a big mountain in between where you need to go, plus the vegetation, and it's really steep.

So you've got all that kind of working against you, plus you can't really walk in just a straight line there. You've got to navigate around all kinds of stuff. And there's you from play some of this jamie that was destroyed and this is just a rough day so that was after the bear attack right after yeah i'll have to figure out because i i put right after the bear attacked i pulled out my my phone and was just kind of recording everyone's reactions.

And then I put it on my Instagram story. But I'll try to find it tonight and I'll post it on to some... I'll figure out a way to stitch it together. They let you save them now. Now they do. This was like three weeks before that, unfortunately. So this place is miserable. It's rainy all the time rainy high winds thick thick dense

vegetation and literal monsters yeah i mean giant bears and then big um the elk are probably what they weigh they weigh they can weigh up to 1400 pounds these elk so this is way bigger yeah it's like the size of two normal elk, weight-wise. Because like an average elk would probably be around 500 pounds in most places. A really big one, like we were talking about the California ones at Tohon, sometimes can get to 1,000. Yeah. This is another 400 pounds bigger than that. Exactly.

That's a big animal. It's a giant animal. And there's bears that eat those giant animals. So those bears are giant. animal and there's bears that eat those giant animals so those bears are giant the bears can be over 1200 1500 pounds themselves 11 feet or more yeah 11 feet 11 feet it's nuts 11 foot bear no this one that attacked you guys how big do you think it was if you had a guess i would say well i would say it's 11 and a half feet because, no, because actually after we went in there, my friend who's a pilot there and dropped us off, he called me about a week or two later. He's like, they shot that bear that went after you guys.

Somebody went in there, same place, bear attacked him. They killed it in self-defense. It was 11 and a half feet and I think almost 1,200 pounds. So there's very good odds that that was the same bear. I would imagine that it was. I mean, because it was the same area.

Same area. Probably had taken over that area. Seemed about the same size. When it came in, I thought, that's a big boar. It wasn't one of those ones you think, oh, that's a, it looked like a big, mature animal. In the piecing together what happened in my mind later. But, yeah, so we're hunting elk on this island. Steve ends up getting an elk.

We hang it in a tree. We do all the stuff you're supposed to do, get the meat away from the carcass. But we had yet to see a bear up until this point. And when my brother and I went in there a few years earlier, we just saw bears every day. We'd see six bears a day. So your mind's just bear, bear, bear. When you're seeing them all the time, when you aren't seeing them all the time, you get a little lax. And that's where we really screwed up because the attack went down. No one was prepared. We were just sitting around having some sandwiches and one. So we're,

we're filming and there was six of us all together. And I think that large group, that six is what saved us because when the bear ran in, it was six of us sitting kind of in like a semi circle, a strange circle. And when that bear came in, we did that scatter effect. And I think that scatter was kind of like if a lion's going after a zebra, they use their numbers and stripes to confuse the lion.

It was that scattering of things just going everywhere that caused confusion for the bear. So I think the bear went in thinking, whatever's under that tree, I'm going to kill it. And it thought it was one thing. And then when we blew up into six different pieces, it just tried to kill everything at once and couldn't actually get one person. God, that's so lucky. Yeah, it was crazy because we're sitting down.

We decided, oh, we'll have lunch before we hike back because the day before we hiked a long ways. We got back to camp at 3 in the morning or something. I can't remember, 2 or 3 in the morning. We'd barely eaten. So everyone was just thinking, let's have lunch, regroup, hike out. So Pat, one of the other guys that was with us, brought the jet boil to boil up some coffee. So I was going around collecting water from everyone to get coffee, going around.

And when I sat down, I took my pack off. And the whole week I'd been doing this thing where I take my pistol from the pack belt and put it on the holster on my body when I drop my pack. And it was that weird deal where I took the pack off and I'm thinking about switching. I'm like, no, it's fine. You know? And I thought I'll just sit because there's a few times I'd set my pack down. I was like, I'll just sit, I'll lay on my pack, like as a chair, a backrest, and then I'll flop the, you know, have the pistol right there. So it's within arm's reach and I'll be sitting there while I go around and get the the water and then someone had moved kind of where I was sitting. So now, so I sit down across from the pack where my pistol is. And then I thinking, and I was thinking about, Oh, hand me that pistol. But I just was like, man, you know,

you don't want to be that guy. Like, Oh yeah. The guy that needs a pistol all the time. Yeah, exactly. Not everybody had pistols. Uh, just me and Giannis had a pistol. And then, Not everybody had pistols. Just me and Giannis had a pistol. And then Pat's behind us. He goes, I hear something. And I look up, and that bear's dead set. So Steve would be where you are, the bear behind Steve.

So Steve was between me and the bear. His back was to it. Like how far away? Not far. I don't know, 30 yards or something. So the first time you see it, it's 30 yards. And is it running? Yeah, it's dead run, super fast. And I just locked eyes with this thing.

I mean, I see it coming in the whole way, just beady eyes locked in on me, and I think, this thing's going to kill me. And so I'm thinking, you know, when I say I'm thinking, I don't know if I'm thinking. I'm just, I just I what was kind of going through my head at the time I thought oh fuck I'm gonna die and my protections right there like I'm gonna die this is that situation where I'm dead and they talk about it and he could have saved himself but his guns on the ground and I think that that was like go for the gun was my whole thing so I start to go for the gun yannis would have been here

as i remember it and so i start to go for the gun and realize fuck i don't have time to get to my gun and it's three feet away that bear is like right there coming down at me so fast so i kind of do like a football juke move left right and then wheel around right do like a spin with my back and then start running to the left. And at that point, Giannis, I didn't know this at the time because I looked at some pictures afterwards, kind of piece everything together. So Giannis was sitting right next to me. I think he got up to turn. There were some trekking poles right here.

He grabbed a trekking pole. So probably while I was juking, he reached around, grabbed the trekking pole, swings around, hits the bear in the face. Jesus Christ. So then I see the bear running off. Then I see someone going down the mountain with the bear. I'm thinking he's got someone. So I grab my pistol, start going down the mountain, yelling, count off.

I guess I yelled count off. And everyone's like, one, one, one. I'm like, oh, shit. Who's missing? Right. And then Garrett pops up out of the bushes. And he's like, oh shit. Who's missing? Right. And then Garrett pops up out of the bushes and his eye, he's like wide-eyed.

So Garrett, aka Dirt Myth, was the one who was on top of the bear. Somehow he's on the bear's back. So I think when the bear wheeled around, he like hit him and he ends up on the back. So I saw just legs and bear going down the mountain. I saw his legs on the back of the bear. So you thought like maybe the bear had him in his jaw. that's what i was thinking wow i mean what who would think

like if that was in a movie you'd be like get the fuck out of here you're not riding a bear i think what was that anchorman where the guy's like riding the bear in the zoo that's exactly like god yes and then we kind of circled up around the tree. And the real scary part was that bear, it was so thick you really couldn't see. And you could see maybe as far as the wall is from us. Was that eight feet? Yeah. And just real thick brush. And you'd hear the bear charge in again.

And we only had the two pistols, Giannis and I. And the wind was so strong, there's no way we could have used bear spray. So we hear the bear charging in. And me and Giannis are like pistols out, ready, waiting for this thing to pop out at point-blank range. And then it would, in your order, yell, bear, bear, hey, hey, hey. And then that thing stops. And then it would just, it would crash off. And then it would charge in from the other direction.

So you've got to circle around the tree the other way. And did that, I think, three times. That was just unnerving. It's like a horror movie where it keeps coming in from different angles. It was weird. It was not a fun feeling. You just felt so small. So you guys had come back to the carcass that was hanging in the tree, and it had probably claimed that carcass?

We don't know. It knew the carcass that was hanging in the tree and it had probably claimed that carcass we don't know it knew the carcass was there i i assume now the the weird thing was is it came in with the wind so the wind was blowing pretty stiff and say into our face and the bear came in with the wind so he wasn't going into the scent right normally they go around they catch the scent and they charge in so i don't know if he'd heard something if he was there we saw what slightly looked like bear sign both steve and i kind of pointed it out but we weren't we were thinking maybe it was something older even when you say bear sign you mean bear shit yeah bear shit at the base of the tree yeah and so i think you know we did some things that were wrong but in in the instance what saved us all now if we were to do it a hundred times over i would say i would do it differently but it worked out how it worked out so i obviously

wouldn't i would never opt to just have nothing and have this weird scatter effect yeah but i think that what saved everyone from getting, anyone from getting hurt, which is a miracle, was the fact that when we scattered, it just confused that bear. Because he kind of had this look after he started wheeling around, kind of like trying to pick a person, trying to go, and he couldn't target one individual. And then things started hitting him and somebody's on his back And I think it just freaked him out and he went off to regroup Keep charging back in but never made that full charge all the way back in again Wow That's crazy. How many people have ever gone through a bear attack? Unscathed like that and a group of six. Yeah, and the thing about it was

It wasn't just a bear attack but had looking at it later had someone even been grabbed and mauled not to death but injured i think that it would have been very unlikely that person was survived because we the weather that came in was so bad i don't know if, it was 100 mile an hour winds you aren't getting rescued in 100 mile an hour winds I wouldn't think I don't know, those Coast Guard helicopters I'm not really sure what they're capable of

maybe someone would say yeah we'd go but that would be a very hard thing the gusts were so bad when we came back over the ridge to our camp now we're all on edge you just want to get back to camp. To put it mildly.

Yeah. And then, of course, we see bears on the way back, and we're, like, thinking, is this bear going to follow us? How many bears did you guys see on the way back? One, one other. Sorry, we saw a bear on the way back. A different one? Yeah.

Smaller, but still. After that, yeah, you're thinking. Now, before that happened happened we're thinking no bears will attack us after that happened we're thinking every bear will attack us and we start to go over the ridge back toward camp i i think at that point i was in the front steve and someone else was behind me as we go over this little saddle the wind hits knocks the first three people over whoa one of the guys had like a pack cover on his pack ripped that off and just sent it in the never nevers i mean it went

up and it was crazy i've never seen anything blow away like that it just went flying so then we get down the winds are gusting the rain's pouring we look down the two two main tents are destroyed steve and i's tents are you know flopped down on the ground. I see somebody's sleeping pad blowing away, sleeping bags getting soaked. So now we have a real situation of hypothermia. If the bear didn't get us, this hypothermia might, and we now no longer have a camp that we can just go to. have a camp that we can just go to. So we've been attacked by a bear. Our camp's destroyed. We get down there. One of the tents is jacked up.

We take all the camp down, relocate behind the spruce, gather up everybody's stuff. Most of the guys' sleeping bags are wet. We end up, like, restringing the bear fence around this new camp. This is after you've just had a full day and been attacked by a bear. And by bear fence, you're talking about one of those electric fences? Yeah, it's a little electric. How do those things work?

It's a battery-operated deal. You run electric fence. It's like ribboned electric fence, just like a cattle yard would have. You run that around, and then it's just off of, I think, six D batteries. That's it? Yeah, and it it's just off of, I think, six D batteries. That's it? It pulses. Yeah, and it tingles just a little bit. It doesn't really, if you touch it, it doesn't really light you up.

So I think they just, I don't like that feeling, especially if they've got their wet nose. They might feel it with their nose first. Right. It shocks them and gets them to run off. Hopefully. Yeah. I don't think I'd cuddle up with a dead carcass inside that bear fence i don't trust it that much you know but yeah it was it was just a nuts day so how did

you guys eventually set camp back up so we there was a spruce that we were using and we got behind that spruce tree and then put one of the teepee tents up kind of tied it off to the spruce and then steve and i had two small uh backpacking tents that we put underneath a few of the limbs, cut out some limbs and got up under there. And it's still 100 mile an hour winds. Yeah. 70 to 100 and something gusts out there. And then some of the guys, we actually cut wood and stashed it under the tree earlier.

So that was good. We had semi-dry wood and we dried some out in the tent before and the tarp had kind of fallen over it. So we had a little bit of dry wood. After maybe a couple hours, we were able to get a fire going inside the tent. And then they could dry out some of their sleeping bags and stuff like that. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it was crazy. How long did it take before you guys got off the island?

So what was it? I guess it would have been the next day in the evening. Did you get any sleep? Yeah, I slept pretty hard. Wow. I was ready for bed. But how could you sleep knowing that that fucking thing's out there? Yeah, it's not like that.

For me, it was kind of, I was thinking, that was awesome. We survived. When it's over, you're fine with it. I was fine with it. You didn't think, like, we're still on the same island, the same bear's still there, and we only walked, like, how many miles? Probably three miles. Three miles, that's nothing. Yeah. Especially for a bear a bear for a bear that wouldn't have been a problem for us it

takes five six hours seven hours something like that it was crazy but yeah and after it happened once we'd cleared the area i was okay but in the moment i thought this is it this is how i die it was a weird feeling. I've had that feeling a few times in my life. And I just don't like that helpless feeling of thinking. What scares me the most is that thought of thinking while you're dying. You ever think about that? Like, while you're dying, knowing that.

This is it. That last thought. I don't like the idea of that last thought. Like that's, if I was, if you're in a plane and the plane's going down and you think, well, I know I'm going to die. There's nothing I can do. And those thoughts that go through your head. I don't like those thoughts.

I think I'd rather just not see it coming because those thoughts are the worst part. I've thought of that before. Like, how do you deal with the feeling right before the plane hits the ground right what what happens your parachute doesn't go and that's the same with the bear attack that bear is coming in you have no if you have a gun you're focused on your task and then if the bear got you crushed your head maybe you would you have that task to focus on but you're not focusing on the inevitable is going to happen. There's nothing I can do. I don't like that thought.

It's the worst. They are crazy animals. They're nuts. I mean, Adam Greentree, who we were talking about before the podcast, did this 28-day backpacking trip in Montana and Colorado, El Cunting in September and Solo all by himself and took a bunch of Instagram pictures and put them on his Instagram story of him holding up a pistol with a sow grizzly standing on her two legs looking at him in the distance while it's snowing out. And she got within 15 yards.

She bluff charged him within 15 yards. She was just trying to get him away from her Cubs. Different situation than with you guys. Because the sow, when they have the Cubs, they just don't want their kids to get fucked up by you. Yeah, exactly. So they don't want you anywhere near them. So they try to scare you off. There's Adam.

Yeah, I remember. I saw that. That was crazy. Yeah, that was in Montana, I think. Look at the bottom comments. Some dickhead. Chunny94, you are a cunt. And then his next comment, hashtag vegan, hashtag animal rights.

Hilarious. You fucking idiots. I hope that guy gets eaten. Not really. I don't really hope you get eaten, Chunny. But you silly fuck. Yeah, it's not a fun feeling. Those bluff charges are still extremely scary because you never know if that's going to be the one that they...

That's it. Well, and Montana's had quite a few lately. You know, there was that really crazy video where the guy had half his head hanging off, like his scalp was hanging off his head. And he was explaining what happened. It bit his arm. That's nuts. and he apparently was just was just scouting and that guy if i recollect right i think that was him he was kind of one of those guys that i think even might have taught classes on bear safety and other stuff like that and i think afterwards he said yeah it's a fucked up deal it happens well he was uh lucky he had a backpack on apparently because he was down and the thing was just tearing him apart.

But he was, you know, cuddled up. Cuddled in the backpack. Yeah. So a few years ago when I was in Alaska, I met this guy. And he was an older guy. I don't know if I talked about this before, but he was a older guy that was on that same island. He was a older guy that was on that same island, and he got attacked by a, I think it was like an 11-foot brown bear, while he was skinning a deer and killed the bear with a knife.

But he got destroyed. Yeah, he killed it with a buck knife. What? He's probably 80-something now. I remembered reading stories about it in Outdoor Life magazine when I was a kid, and then somehow I got to kind of interview him and get the whole story firsthand and recorded it on a video and stuff. Where's the video? I've just got it on my hard drive.

I'm going to do something with it. Yeah, I'll put it out this year. It's cool. How big was the knife? It was a full size. Yeah, six inch buck knife, something like that. You know, the black handle kind of almost like a, yeah, like a solid straight blade knife. Yeah.

And the bear, like, attacked him. He kept stabbing it, fighting it off. What is this, Jamie? Yeah. That's the video? Yeah, that's it. Oh, that's your video. No, that's not my video.

No? Oh, that's the guy? That's the guy, yeah. That little tiny knife? Yeah, that's it. He killed it with that little thing? Yeah. Oh, my God. That's not a big yeah. That little tiny knife? Yeah, that's it. He killed it with that little thing? Yeah. Oh, my God.

That's not a big knife. No. So where did he kill it? He stabbed it. It was, well, like, he kept getting it in the neck, and then the bear would go off and then charge him again. And then finally the bear went off. He said it was pretty sick, like, getting wobbly.

Every time he would attack, it would be less and and less and then i think he actually grabbed his rifle and shot it the last time when the bear was laying there because he was able to get the bear away well how fucked up was he he was really fucked up and and there's a part of the story so there's a cabin there that i've actually been by they got him to that cabin and they had the cabin they have these things they call arctic doors where it's uh so to keep the cold out when you open the door it's like a two-door system well the way that the arctic doors set up the the emergency responders couldn't get a um gurney in there. So the owner of the cabin rips out a chainsaw and cuts his wall open.

Whoa. I mean, saved his life. Because then they got the gurney and the Coast Guard got him out. He was in the hospital for a long time, skin graft after skin graft and all kinds of surgeries. And he survived. The problem with those stories is that gives me hope. I always have these stupid fantasies, like if a mountain lion ever comes after me, I'm going to fucking stab it in the neck.

Exactly. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to put my arm in its mouth and I'm going to fucking... You think about all that stuff until it's just right on top of you. Yeah. Oh, shit, none of this is going to work. I'm looking up at this 1,000-pound bear going, no. Also way i think we're i mean i know we're really weak oh yeah we're so weak you know even a strong person is really really weak exactly you feel really strong up until the point this breaths on you not gonna happen when i was on uh news radio we did a scene once with a chimpanzee i don't

even think it ever made the air i think it got edited out but we had a baby chimp it was a tiny chimp like i think it might have even had a diaper on but this little chimp um was like two years old or something like that and it was on top of me playing around with me you know like you want to hold it i'm like yeah hold it and i'm holding it and it just just hits me a couple times on the back just fucking decides to smack me a little bit like a puppy and i just couldn't believe how fucking strong this little thing i had in my mind like like you think of a chimp that's like 30 pounds or 50 pounds you go that's like a person that's 30 pounds or 50 pounds. Like it is a totally different thing.

Like its body was hard like wood. Like it felt like this table. Like everything was hard. Like you have it in your mind. Like, oh, that's skin and muscle. That's like my skin and muscle. No, no. It's crazy. They're so much stronger.

And they ain't shit compared to a bear. Yeah, exactly. A little baby chimpanzee in a diaper. It's so crazy how weak we are. I mean, it's amazing how our brains and the development of our intellect and our ability to use tools and houses have protected us from all these animals. And I wonder what we used to be like. I wonder what we used to be like. I was thinking about that the other day, and I was kind of debating in my head whether our tools, I think our tools are the only thing, we hide behind them.

Oh, for sure. I think it's the only thing that kept us alive for so long. I wonder what we used to be like, though. I wonder if before the tools, we were more like the chimps. Maybe. We were showing photos of Australopithecus, which is like one of the oldest human beings. And it looks kind of like a chimp person, you know?

Yeah. It's all covered in hair. Oh, I'm sure. They weren't very big either. No, no. It's about chimp size, really. Maybe a little bigger, weren't they? Yeah, and even Neanderthals. Neanderthals apparently were only like five feet tall,

but they weighed 200 pounds. Really? Yeah. They were like 5 feet tall, but they weighed 200 pounds. Really? Yeah. They were like 5'4", maybe something like that. Probably gorilla type strength. Just stupid jack, giant bones, like probably way stronger than us. Yeah.

That's crazy. Yeah, we just figured out a way to build stuff, and I guess we just got soft along the way. Yeah, exactly. It's amazing that we made it this far though when you think about the bears like that and all the the various animals that we must have encountered along the way i think that's why when the pioneers came west they thought let's get rid of all the bears that's why i see why they got rid of the bears yeah there's a imagine those guys back then cruising across the plains and constantly being attacked constantly they had a legit fear of bears oh yeah because it wasn't we don't

understand it in our society of having these natural predators be actual threats to you in your daily life yeah well not only that but back then they didn't even have like a real legit map of the territory. No. They were just trying to figure it out as they went along. Just cruising around. Stumbling into something. Yeah. Well, the last guy in California to be killed by a bear, they named a town after him.

It's out near Bakersfield. It was the last guy in California to get killed by a grizzly bear, which is interesting because that's the California state flag has a grizzly bear, which is interesting because that's the California state flag Has a grizzly bear on it, but we killed all of them. Yeah, like fuck this. Well, I feel like the California grizzly bears I this is just from my opinion. They would have been semi coastal So they've been very similar to the brown bears with the mild climate They probably would not have needed to hibernate. Like they would have been very large bears. We should reintroduce them though.

I'm all for that. Well, I think there's probably some people that would agree with you. Yeah. You know, a lot of the people that want to reintroduce wolves everywhere. Yeah. I say for everyone they reintroduce somewhere else, let's reintroduce a bear somewhere, you know, in the Monterey, San Francisco area where they naturally were. All those salmon streams.

Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Can you imagine? I couldn't. I couldn't. Yeah, I think people really have no idea what that is. They think of it as some sort of a thing that they've seen on the Discovery Channel or in some cool YouTube video where you see them wandering through the fields. But until you're there with it, what I was going to say about what Adam said,

like Adam said, he's like, mate, he goes, it's a fucking monster. It's a fucking monster. He goes, people are out there looking for monsters. He goes, they're fucking real. He goes, monsters are real. He goes, it's not their fault that they're monsters, but they're fucking monsters. That's the worst Adam Green's impression. No, that was a spot on impression.

That was exactly like him. He's around me. I could do it better, mate. They have that thing where they talk at the end. Their voice goes up. But he was talking about how it was charging him from 15 yards. He could see the muscles and the hair was standing straight up. But it was looking at him and rippling.

And he was saying, is this it? And then he found out later that the gun had the wrong bullets in it. That's crazy. So the bullets were too big for the gun. And the only way it would have worked is if he got one in the chamber. He couldn't cock it to put one in the chamber. He would have had to individually put one in the chamber. And then he would have had one shot.

Yeah, that wouldn't work too well. Oh. Yeah, the weird. I remember it almost seemed like slow motion. The way that hair was just waving back and forth. It should block an eyes with it. I saw one grizzly once ever in the wild at close range in

Alberta and it wasn't a big one. It was like maybe six, six and a half feet. But the look it gave me was so different than the look black bears give you. Yeah, this is a zero fucks look. They just know. They just look at you. They look through you.

Through you, yeah. They look at you like you're food. You see, I figured out if it was going to eat me and how it was going to eat me. It wasn't looking at me like I was scary. Black bears look at you like, what are you doing, man? Can I come over here? Are you going to fuck with me me i should get out of here i smell you i'm out of here and then they take off but the grizzly was just looking at me like these marble eyes like black marbles exactly yep those eyes man they're dead they are dead eyes man like shark

eyes yep yeah it's nuts they uh well all well, all the videos you see of bears, too, are in that Katmai Preserve where they're just eating fish and they're chomping and they're playing. Well, it's because they have food. So much food, yeah. Now, imagine if you just took all those fish away and put one person there. That's it. That's a wrap. The look that those bears would have would just completely change.

Yeah, we showed a video of that. Pull that video up, Jamie, of that. There's a crazy video of this guy who's a photographer who's taking pictures of what looks like 15-plus brown bears in this one river. And one of them walks up beside him and just sits down, like literally sits down about 10 feet away. And apparently this one particular area is so rich with salmon, no one's ever been killed there. Yeah, that's probably the place. I think it's Katmai Preserve. I think that's what they call it.

But now you have to get permits because it's just such a popular place. You go in, you fly in there, and you just take pictures of the bears. And they have so much food and they're so habituated that they don't. But if you took the food source away. Yeah, this is it. Look at the size of that thing. See that gun sitting there? Yeah. That's not what you want to do, this is it. Look at the size of that thing. See that gun sitting there? Yeah. That's not what you want to do, I've decided.

Oof, yeah. That seems like an issue. It's not like you can go over and grab that gun either, buddy. Jump over your launcher. You'd be so crushed before you even got to that thing. Yeah, and it's, give me some volume so I can see it, hear it breathing. Look at that thing.

Look at the fucking arms on that thing. What is the name of this video, Jamie, so you can see it, hear it breathing. Look at that thing. The fucking arms on that thing. What is the name of this video, Jamie, so we can give the people credit? It says, bear sits next to guy. And it just, it's sitting, is it now, is that bigger or smaller than the bear that attacked you guys? That's probably smaller. Oh Jesus Christ! Yeah, that's... Look at that thing. I mean, that's mean that's that's a like that's not a very old bear there Yeah, see how his chest is kind of smaller up in the top I guess Yeah, this video freaks me the fuck out though This bear was just sitting right next to this guy, but I mean you look at that

And they just look so peaceful and nice. You would never think. But it's two completely different worlds when you go to somewhere like this. Here it goes. Now you see how close that thing is. Yeah, in that video it just looks like a docile, fuzzy animal. Now watch this. Look down there. Yeah.

That's so crazy. There's literally like 15 huge fucking bears just pulling salmon out of that river. Yeah, that's nuts. Yeah, I mean, I think they're beautiful. I think they're amazing, and I'm glad they're there. But it disturbs me to no end that people don't really understand what they are, and they treat them as if they're some sort of a mythical creature in some Disneyland movie, and they don't understand conservation and controlling their populations, which is what they did understand when they killed them all out of California.

They were like, look, people are getting fucking killed at a regular basis. This is a real problem. And now British Columbia is in this weird situation. My friend Michael Hawkridge lives up in the woods in British Columbia. He lives in the real BC. But the population center is all Vancouver. Vancouver, which is this amazing city, great restaurants, and everybody's like, what, kill the bears?

Fuck that. You don't need to kill the bears. But if you fly in to where my friend Mike lives and talk to those people out there, they can, first of all, they can hunt as many wolves as they want. You could shoot 100 wolves a day. Yeah, there's no lack of wolves there, is there? They're everywhere. We heard them.

You know, I didn't see one when I was up there, but you could hear them off in the distance. But he said that he's got one in his house that jumped at him. Really? He shot in the air, jumping off of a ridge at him. Wow. Yeah, he was making a predator call, and this wolf closed in on him and literally jumped at him, and he shot it in the air. So in his house, he's got it mounted like this.

He's got the wolf mounted in the same position it was in when it was trying to eat him. Yeah, that's crazy. Wolfs'll see people people have to realize that like i love wolves don't get me wrong but you know once i started hunting and then i started really looking into wildlife conservation and then the consequences of letting apex predators get out of control like it's scary yeah yeah the wolves i've never really been afraid of but i did one time i was in idaho it was springtime and i heard something in in the it was like real thick brush again and i hear something and all of a sudden this wolf pops out like five or six feet away. Just full dead run. And I like freak out.

Hey! I was about ready to kick it. And it veered off the path. And then I hear. And then another one comes running in. And I grab my gun and shoot into the ground. That one was like from me to you. Jesus Christ.

And it ran off. But I didn't know. My initial thought was they were just chasing each other playing, and I just happened to be in their way. But I don't know. You might have been lunch. Who knows? And maybe I scared it. Yeah.

Because I had this. Well, they hunt them in Idaho, so they probably. This was before you could hunt them. Oh, okay. I was just, and I had, you know, well, I got my gun off after the first one, just thinking, well, I don't know what's going on here, but just in case something tries, you know. John Dudley has a crazy story. You ever talk to him about it? No.

He talked to, he told it on the podcast, but there's a video. If anybody wants to listen to the actual story on the podcast, you can find it. But he shot a wolf, excuse me. He shot an elk in BC. Yeah. And, oh no, no, Alberta. Alberta. I think it was Alberta.

Shot an elk and didn't realize that where the elk went down was literally right in a wolf's den. Oh, wow. There was these bones around and shit. It was literally like a scene from that movie The Grey. Yeah. It was like broken jack bottles. So it was him and John only has a

four arrow quiver, right? He shot one arrow, which he used to take down the elk. So he's got three arrows left and he's got a guide with him and the guide has a rifle but the guide only has a handful of bullets. He's got like three or four bullets. So they're standing there

They're trying to take this elk out They're quartering it up and then wolf starts circling them and howling and then they realize like oh fuck Like we were literally in the wolves den and one wolf makes a dead run at him. He kills it with his bow Another wolf makes a dead run at it. They shoot it kills it with his bow. Another wolf makes a dead run at it. They shoot it. Another wolf comes down.

He shoots it with the rifle. So John has shot two with his bow, and the other guy shot one with a rifle. John's down to one arrow, and the other guy has like maybe two bullets. Wow. And they're freaking the fuck out. They have their back to a tree, and wolves are circling them, and they're howling, because they've already lost three wolves Yeah, so he's literally getting charged by wolves with his back to a tree with a giant elk carcass behind him that they're trying to claim That's crazy crazy. He said the alpha male was standing on a ridge. He drew back

On the on the wolf the wolf looked at him and bolted and took off and the rest of them took off. Really? Yeah. But he said they were circling him howling from like doing like a roll call. Like trying to see who's still alive. Like what's going on here? But even after a gunshot and two of them killed with arrows they were still charred. That's crazy.

Fuck. Huh. It's a great story. Yeah it is. It's terrifying though. But just let you know think, well, wolves don't harm people. In World War II, the Russians and the Germans had to call a ceasefire because so many people were getting killed by wolves. They decided to call a ceasefire, kill the wolves, and then go back to killing each other. That's crazy. It's a crazy story.

World War I or II? I think it's I. II? Was it II? Yeah, it's a crazy story. World War I or II? I think it's I. II? Was it II? Yeah, it's a crazy story. You'd think they would have just fed on the dead people. Well, I think there were so many wolves. Like Siberia or Russia, wherever the fuck they were,

there's a lot of wolves. And they don't give a shit if you're a person or a chicken. They're here to eat. Just go for it. Yeah, I mean, it's cold. It's tough, tough, tough living. It is one. It was one. It's World. Yeah, I mean, it's cold. It's tough, tough, tough living. It is one. It was one.

It's World War I, yeah. But that's a confirmed story. I mean, they were just, guys would go out on scouts, and they would just vanish. And then they'd find their boot with, like, half a foot still in it. And, like, what the fuck? Like, people don't realize, like, a wolf can cut through an elk bone with its teeth. Yeah, when you see a wolf actually take down an elk, it's pretty impressive. Have you seen it live?

Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen a single wolf take down a spike elk once. Wow. What it did was, it's just so fast, too. It ran it downhill. They're so smart, too. the elk was on a ridge. The wolf starts chasing it down and starts chasing the elk through what we call deadfall, where a bunch of trees have fallen over. So the elk has to exert itself and jump over things.

And then the wolf would come in and bite its back legs. And that, that wolf was so fast. It could run almost between its legs as that elk's running. I mean, it was crazy. And then it got its stomach open, so it's dragging its guts. And then the elk finally would get its guts caught on the trees that it was going over. And then the wolf got it by the neck and just held it until it died. And you watched all this from how far away? I don't know, probably 300 yards maybe. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. That must have been amazing. Some of it you couldn't see because it was a hill across from me, so you could see it. You'd lose it in the timber, then it'd come out in a patch, and then it was right below us, and then we just kind of backed out and left it to its places. Dudley saw a grizzly bear swat a moose down with one shot. Really? He said the grizzly literally lifted up its paw, was chasing the moose,

and slammed it on the moose's back and broke its back really yeah that's how strong a fucking grizzly bear is he said you couldn't it's like to to see it is one like to see it as one thing but to try to describe it as like there's no way i want to describe because the amount of power that thing had in its paw it goes it just gives you a totally different perception of what it's capable of. You know, you have that idea, well, the grizzly's big and the moose is big. It's probably kind of a brawl. Nope. Grizzly just swats it.

Boom. Just snap. Just down. The moose just went like it got shot. That's crazy. Yeah. When you see the power of them, you think, yeah, I don't know. The whole getting scratched thing is probably.

That's not happening. You're getting scratched. You're getting tore up. So in BC, they've recently, they passed two laws. The first law they passed, they were going to outlaw trophy hunts. So what they said is because eating black bear is a traditional thing. A lot of people eat black bear. A lot of people that don't hunt or don't have anything to do with hunting don't know this.

But black bear is eaten by a lot of people. Grizzly bear is not eaten as much, but some people eat it. A lot of the indigenous people eat it, or what do they call it, First Nations in Canada. They'll eat brown bear. Some of them will. But they decided no more, quote, unquote, trophy hunts. So you can't keep the skin, and you couldn't keep the head, but you could keep the meat. Okay. So it was a weird, weird law that got passed and people like,

well, that doesn't make any sense because people you're, I understand that they would want the people to only hunt for meat. That makes sense. But why not allow them to keep the skull and keep the Cape and all that other stuff too. It seems kind of wasteful. It's wasteful. Yeah. Then they changed it entirely. And they said no grizzly hunts at all. And it was really quickly. They had one law change, then another law change.

And they based it on a really small sampling. They had like, I think it was an email sample. Gritty Bowman has a thing on it. They did a podcast on it. But they explained how it went down. That it wasn't, they said 75% of the population agrees, but it's not really 75% of the population, 75% of the 3,000 people that responded to the email.

Right. And, or online petition or whatever the fuck it was. But they have a problem now. These people that actually live there, like my friend Mike, it's like, okay, if you're not going to control the populations of them, like Mike had to shoot one that literally had its face in his cabin he opened the door and it was literally he shot it like we're literally right there like where you are it was trying to come in his cabin and he shot it yeah i think that the reason there's i've heard that there's more people are attacked or affected by black bears yeah than grizzly bears or brown bears.

But it's just that not as many people live in proximity to them. Right. If you put a major metropolitan area on the middle of Fogknack Island, people will be getting jacked all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's going on also in Montana. I mean, when these most recent attacks, it's just because there's a large population of bears there and you can't hunt them. And the good thing is that people hunted

them almost to the brink of extinction. And now through conservation, they've brought them back to the point where they're no longer endangered. But there's the dispute between the animal rights people and the wildlife biologists and the hunters and trying to figure out how big does the population have to be before you realize that you have to chop some of them down. Nobody wants to eliminate grizzly bears, but you don't want 100,000 grizzly bears in the metropolitan Vancouver area. Yeah. And it's kind of a weird balance when you're talking about hunting and animal populations and then you throw in predators because I don't think a lot of people even understand how humans have affected the environment in such a negative way that nothing will ever be as it was.

Right. People go, oh, well, the predators will control the prey populations. And so why would we need to control the predators? Well, we've upset the balance in such a way that if we don't insert ourselves into the equation, which as far as we know, like humans have been in the equation hunting since the animals that are currently in North America have been around. Brown bears have always been hunted by humans. You know, when you're looking at the way things were, I mean, indigenous people hunted them, people before, you know, settlers and whatever came in, the bears were being hunted. So humans were always a natural predator of the bears.

But the way that humans have affected the landscape between obviously taking up habitat. I mean, habitat's the number one thing. Habitat's gone. Invasive plant species is crazy. The type of plants that grow in places they shouldn't be now will never get rid of those plants. So because those plants are there, native plants that the animals originally should be eating off of don't exist. They're outcompeted by noxious weeds and other things. So the amount of food source is smaller. So then the prey population cannot,

they've lost their winter range because of developments and other things. And then if you just insert and said, well, all the predators will take care of those numbers. Well, that's not true because the numbers can't get to what they were because there's less availability starting at the bottom level of food source and winter range and habitat. What do you do about that? I mean, is it possible to kill all the invasive plants? No, it's not possible. It's not possible.

Not even close. No. I mean, there's no way that, like where I'm from, Nevada, you talk about invasive plants. There's a species of grass, cheatgrass. When fire is wiped through, the native grasses can't compete with that. So the cheatgrass takes over. It has less nutrients and doesn't have the same type of browse that the native deer and whatever species deer and elk need.

Mostly mule deer. And where's this cheatgrass coming from? Somebody brought it over because it was ornamental and where's this cheatgrass coming from somebody brought it over because it was ornamental and it's just gone rampant really most of our plants aren't native plants now really look at oh yeah you look at yeah most of the plants that take over are invasive plants yeah our country's primarily invasive species plants maybe someone will call me out on that say that's not true but there's more invasive plants than native plants. That's crazy.

Yeah, the grasses, most of the grasses that we have around aren't from the regions. Kentucky bluegrass in California, it doesn't make sense. Well, it's always fascinating to me when an animal gets into an area where it doesn't have natural predators, like a nutria. Yeah. Like nutrias down south, and they just have to hunt those things all over the place. Giant rat thing? Yeah. Like nutrias down south, and they just have to hunt those things all over the place? It's crazy. Giant rat thing?

Yeah. Well, I was just over in Maui hunting axis deer. Yeah. And they've said the populations there just have exploded. Oh, yeah. Because they don't have predators, and all the native species actually are being negatively affected by the invasive species. Now, were you there, how recently was this?

Yesterday. Yesterday? Yeah. Oh, so you just got back. Yeah, I got back yesterday. What is it like in relationship to where we hunted in Lanai? It's very similar, different terrain, a little more mountainous terrain. So probably kind of cooler.

Yeah, a lot of lava, a lot of rock and cliffs and some other stuff that goes to the ocean. And there's kind of all different. There's more of a dry side of the island. It's more of that lava type terrain. And you've got bamboo forests on the other side. Once the deer get into that thick bamboo type forest, they'll never eradicate them. Wow. Because just like the pigs and everything, they just can't get them out of there.

Yeah. never eradicate them same with because just like the pigs and everything they just can't get them out of there yeah well the good news is they've instituted a um hunters for the hungry type program in in maui right yeah correct yeah so one of my one of my buddies that i hunt with over there rob and he he started getting some of that rolling where they could go on the ranches shoot the deer off the excess deer and then give them to people that need food. That's amazing. Which they should be able to. Sure. Why not?

It's some of the best tasting meat there is. Yeah. And they're overrun with these animals. Yeah, that's an argument for hunting. Yeah. That it's really difficult for animal rights people to argue against because you already have this invasive species that's overpopulating this island and Either you're gonna bring in wolves

Which is another invasive species which is isn't that similar to what they tried to do in Australia? Yeah, Australia they start they try to bring in a bunch of stuff which I was here. They brought foxes and cats But the foxes and cats well you've got these Marsupials that are slow and lay eggs and don't run away. The rats hide and are fast. Platypuses don't. Yeah. Ground nesting birds. Yeah, ground nesting birds, all that stuff.

So they just hammer the native species and then the invasive rats and mice still just take a toll on everything. Yeah, what is the solution to a place like Lanai other than hunting? I mean, you would have to give the deer birth control or bring in predators or poison or poison i mean that's what they use that they use ferritox in new zealand oh god can you imagine just they they use a poison called 10 and they well the ferritox is mostly for uh possums but they use a a poison called 1080 and it's cereal poisoning. So they essentially coat cereal, which would be like grains and rice and other things, with this extremely deadly poison. And then they just dump it out of helicopters into the forest.

And it doesn't discriminate. No, it doesn't discriminate. It's not just deer they're eating, and it's whatever's local as well. Correct. And you're putting, I mean, you're dumping poison. It's crazy. It's going to get into the groundwater. Yeah. I mean, it's... That's so stupid. What kind of solution is

that? And if you think hunting's bad, that poison is not an easy death. No. No, it's awful. It takes a long time too. And the thing is, again, like you said, the meat is delicious. Yeah. yeah if you just if they just had a program where they went to lanai and just shot animals just for for hungry people

in oahu or maui and they could have a lot of amazing meals for people oh yeah why not and not even just here what about sending that freezing it somehow sending it yeah other places in the world yeah we're doing that with other places new zealand australia whatever setting up programs like that well people like that fellow that was that wrote cunt and hashtag animal rights and hashtag vegan this is this is where they run into a wall like an ideological wall like what do you think should happen to wild pigs like what do you think should happen to wild pigs? Like what do you think should happen? You think they should just go run rampant and destroy all the other wildlife? They're not just an invasive species, but a ruthlessly reproducing invasive species. Yeah, and they can out-compete other things.

So by leaving one thing, you're killing something else. There's always this weird trade-off where for one thing to exist, something else has to die. Yeah. That's unfortunate, but that's just how the world is. If you don't like the way the world works, that sucks. It's kind of unfortunate, but it's also kind of, look. It's the way it is. Yeah, and I don't want that elk to get killed by that wolf, but I would have loved to see it happen.

Yeah. It's going to happen. Exactly. I mean, you got to see, in my opinion, you got to see something really fucking amazing. Oh, yeah. What are the odds that you're there right when a wolf takes out an elk? Yeah. Not very likely.

Yeah. Cam Haynes posted a few things. We did that UA elk hunt. Yeah. I saw that. It turned out good. That was awesome. Yeah, it turned out great.

Yeah, it was great. But Cam posted a bunch of videos because a bunch of people were, you know, it's always a bunch of people complaining about hunting. Yeah. But he posted a bunch of videos about bears. And one of them was a bear eating a big grizzly, eating this elk calf while it was alive. Really? While the mother was off, just like, you know 30 yards away freaking the fuck out and

she's watching this big old grizzly just tear her elk cat and it's going making weird noises where it just gets mauled and you know i don't want that to happen but it's gonna happen and it's it's not i don't i'm not happy that it's happening but it's fascinating to watch like and if i was there i would definitely watch that yeah i mean it's just it's just life it's life yeah crazy but i think that is the real ideological argument and this is where like the vegan people fall short it's like i understand that you don't want to kill animals you don't have to i understand that you don't want factory farming i don't want it either i don't want any of that stuff. But you're dealing with a different thing. And it's a smaller thing.

The amount of people that are hunting for food and managing wildlife and controlling populations, it's a smaller thing than the amount of people that actually eat meat. But to target that, you're literally targeting the one thing that's been thought out the most. Yeah. Yeah. targeting the one thing that's been thought out the most yeah yeah well yeah you've created we've created these systems that we're okay with yet if you really look at it they're just it's fucking weird yeah the whole farming of animal we've done that for a very long time but the way that we do it now is just some kind of different species yeah it's different you know you're putting things in your body that shouldn't be there when you can go out i can go and shoot a caribou that's never had it's only been eating

native type grasses on the tundra and it's completely wild and healthy and my body even feels different when i eat that sort of stuff yeah same with elk right yeah and um i get their argument that not everybody could do that you You're right. Not everybody can. But guess what? Not everybody's going to do a lot of things. It's hard to do. It's not an easy thing to do. It's not easy to get a bow and arrow and go into the mountains and find an elk and shoot it and then pack it out. Exactly.

Most people are just, they're not going to do that. No, and I think if you really, well, I think it was kind of cool this last week. I took my fiancee hunting. It was her first time hunting. Really? Yeah. I mean, like where she was hunting. Oh, okay.

So she's been with you before when you were hunting? Yeah. Like, what are you doing? Are you done? Yeah, exactly. When are we going home? But, you know, over the years she's seen me go, okay, she gets it. She enjoys eating the meat.

She has always, you you know when we first started dating or whatever she said oh i can never kill anything and i understood that not everyone can but through the process of watching what i do the respect that i have for the animals going okay this isn't as bad as i had always thought it was not that it was bad but she gave it a try and just like okay and then when we you know she the first time she killed something she cried a little bit but immediately after she was like i'm actually really excited i'm really happy that i got this this deer and then last night we cooked it up for dinner when we got home she's like it does taste better i was like yeah because this is your deer

this is you provided this meal for us this is your animal now you're a part of it it's not you didn't go buy that you killed it yourself you knew what that deer was and you just respected a lot more now because you were a part of that process you had to struggle a little bit we almost didn't get one you went through the whole thing of well you know the whole process of it it's completely different it's just a different thing that when you're eating the food. Yeah. When you buy a steak from a supermarket, you have zero connection with that other than the fact that you had to work to pay for it.

You know, you go to a restaurant, you have even less because you're not even cooking it. Yeah. And you just sit down there. Yeah, I'll have the T-bone, medium rare, please. And then it comes back. Ooh, looks good. Chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, you know. Yeah.

But when you do it yourself, you know, when you described you described it once, I think in a great way like that, when you pull out an elk steak from an elk that you shot, it's almost like it's sacred. Oh yeah. Like you're holding it like a baby. You've just, you've worked. So you just appreciate everything you work hard for. Yeah. It's also that you were there.

Like you understand this, when you're eating that meal meal that meal has a memory attached to it It has effort attached to it. It has a Comprehension you understand the process you understand where the arrow went you understand the blood trail You know you were there when you quartered it you the whole thing is like it's all coming back to you as you're eating There's no way you could reproduce that without actually doing it. No, and there's that value when you look at, well, even just having a set of antlers around. People might, that don't hunt, think, oh, that's just trophy.

It's glorifying it. But after the meat's gone, you're still in remembrance of that animal. Oh, yeah. It's like a very deep process that you take with you for a long time. Yeah, no doubt. I have my first elk that I shot on my wall at my house, the only one that my wife lets me put up, the first elk that I shot with a bow.

And I walk by that thing all the time. And I remember the whole experience. I remember bugling, coming up the hill. I remember hiding behind the tree. I remember drawing back. I remember waiting until I could see its vitals. I remember the arrow hitting it. I remember going, holy shit. I remember watching it stumble. I remember it going down.

It's like vivid, like super vivid. And vivid in a way that not a lot of memories are because it's so primal because it's a life and death video. I think, I mean I'm not a neuroscientist obviously, but there's some shit that's turning on in your head. That's like from the caveman days when you shoot an elk with a bow and arrow and you see it go down, you realize

you're like, you're going to eat this thing. Like there, it's very, it's very interesting. It's almost like the way I, there's certain experiences in life where once those experiences happen you go whoa i didn't even know that that was a part of my brain oh yeah being a father's that way in a more intense way like once you have kids and then you realize like how much you love your kids like wow this is this is a part of my brain that i didn't even know was there and that was like fully lit up and and overcoming all of my senses and thoughts you know there's um some sort of strange deep connection that we have and i always tell people like a good way to let's that you you sort of feel that in a mild way without too much

craziness is fishing yeah when you catch a fish like oh we like, oh, we got it. Excited. We got it. Oh, Jesus. There's this weird sort of excitement to it. But people don't have a problem with dead fish. No. Yeah, it's weird because fish don't have faces or something. It doesn't look like your dog. Yeah, like something that maybe just because nothing, you don't cuddle fish or something. Yeah, it's in the water. Maybe a cuddle fish.

It's in a different, yeah, it's a in the water it's in a different world yeah there's something that we have about and then but then there's other animals like we're super racist when it comes to animals oh for sure like rats we don't give a fuck about rats kill those things nasty yeah it's disgusting because they have hair everywhere but their tail so it it's just. Slimy ass fucking reptile tail. Get rid of them. Yeah. But, you know, something cute like a chipmunk. Like, oh, a little fella.

Well, it's funny because today on my Instagram page, well, because I was doing some spear fishing and stuff, I caught an octopus. And to kill an octopus, you swim up and you bite their skull to kill them. Really? Yeah. They have a skull? Yeah. It's right between their eyes.

It's where their, I guess, their brain is. You bite them between the eyes? Yeah, because otherwise it moves around too much. So it's hard to, because an octopus, they just latch on to everything. Why do you have to bite it? You can't stab it there? It'd be really hard to under, trying to move. And it's got, you know, it can, as you stick the knife in, it would move around.

So everybody does it that way you always fight Yeah for the most part whoa so just right eyes and you feel the skull and you bite down crush it Nobody had has a problem with you biting an octopus in the head Well he's not yet Fucking smart okay, so this guy's got one Yeah, that dude's a Kiwis. He's a cool guy. Whoa, that guy's an animal. Jesus Christ, imagine if you're that poor octopus. This fucking savage with a beard. That's what a brine is. There you go.

That's what a brine is, mate. You see he was wriggling around before, now he's dead as. Like that, folks, is how you kill an octopus. Wow. And the thing is Yeah, nobody gives a shit about that But the thing is, octopus are smart as fuck Yeah, they're weird Weird smart

Yeah, we've talked about that before Yeah Just the way that they hide, the way that they do stuff Well, your show that you You're not doing anymore, right? No, the Apex Predator Apex Predator was a great show And one of the things, for people who don't know what it was,

you traveled all over the place and tried to learn from the way different animals would hunt things. But I remember when you came in here and you were talking about octopus, I didn't. By the way, you can say octopuses and you can say octopi, apparently. Whatever you want. Yeah, you can say it both ways. But I had no idea. Like when you came in here, like, dude, they're not even from this planet. They're like aliens.

Yeah, they're weird. But they are smart. But in the ocean, they're definitely at the bottom of the food chain. Are they really? But they kill sharks. Well, the big ones. The little ones, everything eats them. Really?

If you're an octopus, you are a savory dish for every fish, I guess. They are quite delicious. Yeah. When you're fishing, that kind of octopus for bait works better than anything. Really? Yeah, these fish, that's actually how I saw the one that I got. I swam down to go shoot a fish, and he was pecking at it because they get into the reef, and they'll just keep going for it until it gets out of there. Spear fishing is supposed to be really fun.

It's like hunting underwater, right? Yeah, it's really fun. You'd enjoy it. I think you'd dig the whole, you got to go, that, one of the best things I've ever done in my life was that free diving, essentially like a free diving class. But that's one of the coolest things when you, I guarantee you'd be able to hold your breath for four minutes or so. And after you do that, you think, well, shit, I can do anything.

It's weird. It's a weird feeling. That was one of the coolest things that I did. And I did it on that apex predator show. That's what I did it for. But then since then, I've been doing quite a bit of as much as I can try to go diving and spearfishing. And the first time you held your breath, you couldn't hold it that long. And then they told you how to do it.

Just a minute? Minute, minute and a half, something like that. So what was the difference? It's all mental. Really? Yeah. So what do they tell you how to do it? Just a minute? A minute, minute and a half, something like that. So what was the difference? It's all mental. Really? Yeah. So what do they tell you to concentrate on? Just the fact that you aren't going to die is key in relaxing.

When your heart rate starts, so it's more about just controlling things, controlling your heart rate and other stuff. I'm no expert, but there's people that really have been spearfishing and diving as much as i go hunting but i try to learn as much as i can when i'm out with people that know what they're doing and uh it's just a cool experience of being underwater and you get that little bit of a panic and you start to use your oxygen and then you just try to relax relax relax relax and you just can stay longer. Whoa.

And so this guy, is he giving you like techniques to relax? Techniques to breathe, slow your heart rate, and then just knowing the fact of how to hold your breath, don't let it out, and the fact that what your body goes through, the stages that your body goes through when you are out of oxygen. When you get to of oxygen so when you get to that end period you actually almost feel like you don't need to breathe it's really weird yeah and that's when you got to breathe that's when you got to breathe because when i when i was done doing the four minute breath while i came out and the first thing he says breathe like x they

tell you like exhale and breathe because i got up like oh yeah and then i'm like oh yeah shit yeah i need to breathe. Wow. That's weird. So is it sort of like hypothermia? Like as you get really, really cold, you start heating up? Oh, like you feel the opposite? Yeah, like when people are dying of hypothermia, one of the things when they find them, they

take all their clothes off. Yeah. Yeah. It could be something similar to that. Wow. I don't know. Yeah. It could be something similar to that.

Wow. I don't know. Yeah. So when you hold your breath and you take out, why is it better to hold your breath than to have no breath in and just not breathe? Because your body needs the oxygen. So the oxygen from a big breath, like. Yeah. That's better.

Just hold that. Yeah. Because I was wondering, like, how, what is the record for exhaling is all your air and then holding your breath before you take another deep breath. Wait, exhaling all your air? All your air. Like, taking a big deep breath, exhaling everything, and then holding it while you have no air in your lungs. Like, how long can you go before you take? Not very long.

Really? No. You're saying you breathe in, you breathe all the air out, and then stop? Yep. Oh, a few seconds. Really? Yeah, you wouldn't. Well, I mean, not before you die.

Not a few seconds, but maybe a minute. With no oxygen? Yeah, no. Before you black out? Yeah. I don't know if it would be that long. Yeah, breathe everything out, and then do 10 jumping jacks. Oh, yeah, you're fucked.

You know what I mean? Yeah, then there's no way. Yeah. You'd burn it out totally. Yeah. That'd probably be the fastest way to pass that. Egan Inouye is a guy who fought in the UFC, and he was a free dive champion. And I believe, I want to say he went longer than seven minutes in the ocean, underwater, holding his breath.

Yeah, some people are incredible. incredible i mean they can go five seven that some of that too is building up your endurance yeah but a lot of it is building up your endurance and just really slowing your heart rate and not using up the oxygen that you have and not freaking out because as you freak out you get scared your heart rate goes up and you use more oxygen it's one of those things if you're running out of gas, and you want to speed up to the gas station, and you just burn more gas instead of slow down, drop it down to 35 and cruise, you're going to go 70 if you can. Dude, you've lived a really fascinating life when it comes to your experiences in the wild.

How old are you? 35? 33. 33. See, most 33-year-old guys have not been to as many places, experienced as many wild things as you have. I mean, you've really had a very, very unusual life. Oh, definitely. Especially with wildlife experiences. Yeah, well, I mean, if I look at it, I've spent the majority of my life out in the wild.

That's kind of crazy. Yeah, that is crazy. Because you're real normal. Yeah. I try. I'm not that. I'm honestly not that normal, but I try to appear normal. Were you into break dancing or you were into, you like.

Oh, who told you that? That was someone. Was it Ronella? Someone told me. It was Janus. Yeah, no, it probably was. Oh, when I was in middle school. But you were.

One of my friends was into it. You were a dancer, right? Didn't you, like, do, like, dance competitions and shit? No. I think that's one of those rumors. You know those... You know when you get really drunk and you pull out that party trick that you do when you're 15 years old?

Yeah. And it looks shitty, but nobody else, like... That's one of those things. Oh, it's one of those things. Yeah, it's one of those things. Because people are like, you won't believe it, but Remy was like a dance champion. Traveled all over the world in a dance troupe. I was like, what?

That is not anywhere close. I was in some summer. Me and my brother went to Iceland in the summer when I was in high school. And the person that we stayed with was like a break dancer and just taught us how to break dance. And we would just do it for fun. It's one of those things you whip out at like a wedding. Okay. So you never went anywhere.

That's hilarious. That's one of those things. I think everyone was, one Christmas party was ZPZ. Everyone was just hammered. And I thought, Oh yeah. Someone was like trying to do like the white break dance thing,

which is my version is extremely white and bad, but could do like a few no head spins but maybe some windmills and some cool stuff you know that might have been like everyone and then it just goes from there that's what happened yeah because the rumor it spread like wildfire yeah that's great Warren was a breakdancing champion I'm like how does he have time for all these things 33 33 years old. Yeah. All the places you've been. Because you, the first time I saw you was on that show Solo Hunter, I think. Yeah.

No, I think the first time I saw you was on Steve's show. And then I saw you on Solo Hunter as well. Yeah, because I was actually supposed to go on that first hunt with you guys, but I had to guide that week when. Oh, in Montana. Callahan. And yeah, I wish I would have made it. But unfortunately, that would have been cool. I love that area. You have to go into the woods with Brian Callahan. and yeah, I wish I would have made it. But unfortunately, that would have been cool. I love that area.

You have to go into the woods with Brian Callahan. Yeah. It's a problem. You will not stop laughing. Really? Because, yeah, he's way funnier than me, like with a captive audience. Like, it's almost like he's wasted on stage. Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where he's at his best is a bunch of friends Just hanging around small group just small and he would just he would just be he's so fun He's like it's almost like there's no art form for what he does It's like he can take it to a stage in front of a bunch of strangers and 300 people and whatever on a credit It'll be really funny. Don't get me wrong. His stand-up is really really funny It's one of the best stand-ups in the country. But it's not as funny as when you're alone with him in the woods. He did this thing about he had a character that he created called the Ravine Comer

where he would jerk off in ravines. It sounds so stupid. But when you're there and you're in Montana and it's fucking nine degrees out and you've been sleeping on the ground for five days and hiking around miles every day and you're kind of half out of it and laughing and you're in the middle of quartering a deer. And he just starts, guys, guys, let me tell you what I do. This is what I do. And he just starts pretending.

He pulls his pants halfway down like he's jacking off into a canyon. I'm not doing it any justice. People are like, that's so juvenile. It's definitely juvenile. But you would have cried laughing. You have to have that sense of humor to keep you going. And there's guys like that. When you're out there,

there's certain things that are just extra funny. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because you're just funny shit. But Sam, he's at his best when you're in a captive audience Like I'm just that's not me. I thought I don't have that sense of humor I have a different kind of sense of humor But he's the guy where there's like five of us like guys you got a piece on you don't you like he'll just say Making you uncomfortable the next thing you know who you know

Yeah, he just it's so silly so that trip and that's what I knew too like on the first hunting trip and I knew he was like out of all my friends he's one of the ones

that I knew would be able to tough it out like all the other guys that are urban guys stand up comedians like what are the odds that I can get one of those guys

to go to Montana for seven days just camping yeah they're not gonna go they'll be like fucking Rogan why'd you bring me out here? But Callum was a trooper all the way.

That's awesome. Next time we do it, you should go. Because Steve and I, we're trying to put together something now. We might do it in Mexico. Oh, yeah. I'm actually going there next week. Are you? I think he's there now.

Yeah, he is. Yeah. They're there with Ben O'Brien. Yep. Ben and Giannis. Coos deer, right? Yep, coos deer. Do you say coos or cows?

Coos. Some people say cows, right? It's one of those things. It was originally pronounced one way. Like the state of Nevada is not Nevada. What is it? It's Nevada. Everyone who lives there calls it Nevada.

Nevada. What else is Nevada? Nevada. I think I said Nevada. Yeah, that's incorrect. Las Vegas, Nevada. Hmm, I don't know what I say. Yeah. I have to said Nevada. Yeah, that's incorrect. Las Vegas, Nevada. I don't know what I say. Yeah.

I have to be alone without you influencing me. So remember, when you think about it next time, they'll call it Nevada. Nevada. Yeah, a big ad campaign. But there's just certain things that when you're there, it's said a certain way. Well, when we went and borrowed your truck when we went bow hunting outside of Reno. Yep. That's when I got to see the Nevada that you guys know.

Oh, yeah. Just desolate. Yeah. Everybody thinks of Nevada as Vegas. No. It's Vegas and Barstow. No. It's like mule deer and elk and the mountains.

Yeah. There's more independent mountain ranges in Nevada than anywhere else. Really? And more public land. Outside of Alaska, there's more public land percentage-wise. Wow. That's crazy. It's almost all public.

That's one of the reasons why I'm so gung-ho for public lands. Yeah. I grew up in a place where you never saw no trespassing sign. You weren't told you couldn't go anywhere. That's amazing. It's like the anti-Texas. It is the anti-Texas. Yeah. Nothing wrong with Texas, but it's all- It-texas it's the it is the anti-texas yeah nothing wrong

with texas but it's all it's all private yeah it's weird it's probably some public land where guys hunt in texas right it was public but they sold it all off did they sell it all yeah the state's got the land and they just sold it off to people the state hardly has any land that's the worry for places like utah and where they're shrinking their monuments and they're starting to sell off rights for drilling and mining. And, you know, people are really concerned about this administration and what they're doing with the environmental protections. Because today Trump signed some new thing allowing for offshore drilling, like pretty much fucking everywhere. He just went, see if you can find that. pretty much fucking everywhere.

He just went, see if you can find that. But it's just, it's rolling back all of the environmental protections from the Obama administration. And his idea is like economics trumps, trumps, wrong word, right? Trumps environmental. And then what we really need is to just maximize our ability to earn money. Yeah. Trump moves to open nearly all offshore waters to drilling. Nearly all offshore waters to drilling. Nearly all offshore

waters to drilling. That sounds so fucking crazy. If you see the BP oil spill, like how many of those can we endure? Yeah,

there's a lot of scary stuff when it comes to the environment because we only get one. There's only one Earth. Yeah.

That's why we're trying, we're so interested in Mars. Why don't we just figure out how to manage the shit we got? Well, he's all about business. It's really weird to see a super pro business guy that's in the White House. It's quite strange.

The whole thing is quite, it seems surreal. Like every couple of days, I'll look at the paper and it says President Trump. And I'll go, oh, yeah, that guy's the president. That's why for what I do, I just get to unplug for very long periods of time. But that's not even the right way to go about it sometimes because then there's things that affect me and what I love. And then I get hit blindsided by it because I'm gone and out in the woods enjoying what I like and then I come home and everything's gone do you have a hard time relating to a lot of people your age that don't experience

the things you experience because your life is so vastly different than the average 33 year old guy no I mean I think people I think people respect if you're really passionate about something whether if you were passionate about something that isn't even non-hunting. At least I'm like, well, I give you respect.

You're passionate about it. You're doing your thing. And I think a lot of people get that with me, whether they hunt or don't hunt. I can relate to anybody because everybody's kind of passionate about something. There's that group of people that have no passion and you're like, well, okay. Yeah, those poor bastards. I feel like they were raised wrong. Yeah.

Somebody didn't come along and introduce them to something. Exactly. Something. I mean, everybody's got their thing. Yeah. You know, if you, if your thing is whatever, video gaming or whatever, that's not my thing, but if you're cool, if you like it and you're passionate about it and I can tell that, then we can have a conversation about it.

Cause I think that's cool when people are passionate about something. Oh yeah. I mean, it's very infectious. I watch people make furniture. I don't want to make furniture, but I watch when people are passionate about something. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's very infectious. I watch people make furniture. I don't want to make furniture, but I watch people that are really into furniture. I'm like, fuck, that looks awesome. It does. There's something exciting about it.

That's it. My Instagram feed is like woodworking stuff. I'm like, I'm starting. Yeah. I don't know. It's just like the people that are really passionate about woodworking, it's cool to see them build stuff. Yeah.

I can get into that. I like knife makers. Yeah, that's cool. I can get into that. I like knife makers. Yeah, that's cool. I love watching guys forge blades and hammer them down. There's something about tactile, just actual physical things that you're making and changing. I'm fascinated by that stuff. So it doesn't mean if you do it or whatever. I think everybody can relate on some level to things that they're into

or their passions. I'm sure, but what you've done is pretty unique. Like I said about that show, Solo Hunter, I remember thinking watching that, like, whoa, this guy goes out there. You're out there by yourself. You don't really have a lot to save you. No, that's my thing is I don't know. Me and Steve were actually talking about this on that uh a fog neck hunt and it was before the bear attack but it was just

real shitty weather hard hiking and i'm just loving it is you think you'll ever get sick of this you just want to go on a ranch somewhere and drive around and not kill yourself. But it's a different, that's my thing. If I have two options, option A is just this go hunting in a place that there's very few animals and you probably won't have any success and it's just really shitty weather and it's tough and big mountains. Or there's this one where I'm guaranteed that I'll get some big animal and I'll have a lot of encounters and I can just drive around. I'm going to choose the really hard one. And that's just, it's just how I am. I like that.

I like the, it's like a masochistic thing of, I like to struggle. I like to hurt for it. Like if I'm going to kill an animal, I want to have had some kind of struggle where I feel like I've earned some respect. Like, I don't know. It's like my payment. I had to work for it. It's my payment to the animal's life. It's a weird, so it's just my thing. Don't you feel like also it's because you've had so much success. It's not like you're hurting for meat, right? You know, it's not like this is like a desperado meat hunt. Yeah. And I think that that's part of it because sometimes I might go, if something's too easy, if I go somewhere and I think, oh man, this hunt's too easy if I go somewhere and I think man this hunt's too easy then I'll look for an animal that might be bigger or harder to find or a certain

one just to give myself some kind of challenge and that was part of the thing of filming myself while hunting and going out there is that added challenge of being alone the added challenge of filming myself all those challenges just to, you know, create that experience of the struggle of it, I guess. It's like I crave that struggle a lot as well. It's a weird, it's a weird thing. It's weird, but it's not weird. But I think a lot of people do that.

Yeah. Different stuff. It's like exercise. It's like, I firmly believe that a person who doesn't struggle with anything is going to be a miserable person because I don't think with anything is going to be a miserable person because I don't think you're really going to truly appreciate relaxation. I don't appreciate relaxation unless I work hard. If I work, like if I come home from the gym, I work out hard.

I worked all day, worked out hard, come home from the gym. I'm fucking exhausted and I can put my feet up on the couch and I can enjoy a TV show. I can really enjoy it. It's one of the only times I can because if I wake up on the couch and I can enjoy a TV show. I can really enjoy it. It's one of the only times I can. Because if I wake up in the morning and I eat breakfast and I turn on the TV, I'm like, why the fuck are you watching TV? Shut that shit off. Go get something done. But if I've already done – I think it's the reason why people like working out hard is because your body desires struggle.

I think it's the way human beings evolved. struggle. I think that's the way human beings evolved. I think we evolved to have a certain amount of our reward system geared towards us accomplishing difficult things because that's how people survived. Yeah. I think there's a lot to that. It's an accomplishment feeling that you get. It's kind of like releases those endorphins. You go, okay, I feel good about, and you really, the real hard times really make you appreciate the easy times. If it's just all easy, you just get stagnant. Like a rich kid. Probably not be happy.

Yeah. Born like silver spoons. Yeah. Yeah. You go, oh. And then you don't, yeah. You can't just keep buying things. No, you can't.

Yeah. You need some sort of struggle. I just, I don't know if that's been mapped out. If people understand, like, you need X amount of struggle to have this amount of happiness. Like, it really, most people just think, oh, you know, just get a job and do your thing and you'll be happy. And if you're not, you take Paxil. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think a lot of people's goal plans don't, they try to find the way around that struggle part.

And I kind of seek out that struggle part. It's just a different. Your experiences have taught you that that struggle is where the happiness comes from and most people are they think that the happiness is avoiding the struggle it's a real cat it's a trick you know it's like it's like that feeling that your body gives you like when you don't want to go to the gym like oh come on man don't go but if you push through that then afterwards like yeah i fucking did it best time yes i now i feel and then also you see the results in your body whereas if you just give in to that i'm lazy thing all the time then you just have this dumpy doughy body and then

you feel like shit when you're naked a lot of problems yeah your your experience are you still doing yoga i had not not like i should because my back's all jacked up now, I think probably from not doing it as much. I need to get back into it. I know you were doing it for a while, right? I was, yeah. I actually never felt better. Well, I mean, since I was probably 18 years old,

for most of my year was guiding guiding hunters and that involved packing out animals so if you think about it i don't i probably should one day i'll sit down and try to figure out how many animals i've carried out like heavy packs 800 pound packs probably in i don't even i wouldn't even want to guess it's a lot more than. Yeah, dude, you must have a ridiculously strong back from that. But it's probably tight. Yeah, it's really, yeah, it's just very, and now it's only been, you know, 17, 18 years of really doing it pretty all the time. You just start feeling like, oh, the back in here. Oh, yeah.

You know, and I think when I was doing the yoga more, I didn't get those pains. It's a little bit more flexible. Yeah, the decompression. That's a big part of what yoga is, is yoga makes you move your body in a way that's almost the opposite of carrying weight. I think, yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, you just got so much weighted down, so much compression all the time. weighted down, so much compression all the time. A lot of jiu-jitsu people have turned to yoga now to realize that they, like there's a lot of guys that for the longest time, me included,

what we did was like working out with weights, maybe kettlebells, like heavy explosive stuff, box jumps, things along those lines, and then jiu-jitsu. So the idea was that the working out with weights would prepare you for the jiu-jitsu. But then everybody gets injured. But a lot of guys have turned now towards yoga and jiu-jitsu. Because there's something about the rugged smashing and crushing and pulling and yanking of jiu-jitsu that it's complemented by the stretching and elongating and holding static positions and completely non-explosive actions of yoga. I think there's – I was actually talking to one of my good buddies, David Wise.

He's actually an Olympic gold medalist for half-pipe free skiing. I mean, he's just like the top of his game for – What is half-pipe? What does that mean? So he does the half-pipe, like it's a – it would be like half a water bottle cut, you know, pipe. And then he does the tricks in it oh okay skis it's kind of like what sean white does on a snowboard he does oh skis but we were talking about exercise that controls those little muscles for balance because he's big into hunting too

it's like and he's when you're moving through the mountains you've got that heavy pack on sometimes when you see an animal it means the difference between you getting it and not is the speed that you get there. So you just have to have that ability, that agility to when you set your foot on something, know that that's where it's going to stay. Right. And you don't get off balance. Because a lot of the stuff I hunt is mountain type stuff, cliffs, and especially in alaska new zealand other stuff this dangerous country people die in that i mean cam's friend died in an area that i was hunting that same year for for doll sheep yeah you know and that's just like yeah and that's a guy that

does it all the time like you need yeah it's very important to have that balance. It's those muscles that you can't lift for. It's the weird being able to stand on one leg and move around in every direction. Because especially when you've got weight on your back, you're packing something out. That kind of weird agility strength training. And those guys that do those kind of sports like skiing and snowboarding and all that, they're like cats. You cannot tip them over. I was like, I want to and all that and they're like cats you know you cannot tip them over i was like i want to be like that like even shane dorian yeah that guy like when he walks in the mountains it's it's different like his balance he's so centered it makes him

quiet and it's just like it's cool right so from all the surfing yeah um if you do kettlebell windmills that's a great one for that as well. Yeah, I've done that a couple times. Something about holding that overhead and then bending all your body down, touching the floor, and then extending back up. It puts strength into the core in a weird way, especially if you can do it with heavy weights. Yeah. You know what Turkish get-ups are? Yeah, that's what I've been doing, Turkish get-ups. Love those, man.

They're so non-glamorous. Everybody else do curls and bench press and stuff and get jacked. But for functional strength, there's very few things that are as good as a Turkish get-up. There's something about pressing that weight on your back, getting up to your knees, anchoring your body up, standing all the way up, and then lowering yourself all the way back down again. It's just phenomenal for all these weird muscles. Oh, yeah. Your back and your neck and shoulder stability and all these different things people ignore.

Yeah, that's what in the off season I'll try to do. See, I'm out there a lot with the pack on all day long. So for me, I'd have to find something that's not that. Right. To get more benefit. And I think that's why the yoga thing, because if I go to work out and put a heavy pack on and go for a hike, well, for work, I do that for 12 hours a day.

It's like the one hour I go do it when I'm not working isn't going to do much for me. Your back must be, like, really fucking strong. Think about 17, 18 years of doing that. Yeah. I mean, your back must be ridiculous. Yeah, and you know, you aren't carrying the heavy pack every day, but there's been a substantial number of... Even if you're doing it once a week.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, there's definitely... That's where you get strong. If you're doing it every day, it'd probably break you down. Yeah. But doing it once a week, that gives your body a chance to break down and then slowly recover. Unless I'm that guy that's like 55 years old and can't walk. Yeah. We'll see. Have you seen that guy that's like 55 years old and can't walk. Yeah.

Have you seen that outdoorsman's thing called the Atlas? The Atlas trainer. Yeah, that thing's amazing. Yeah, that's cool. I love hiking with that thing on. It's great. It keeps the weight real centered. I haven't actually used that just because of the time it takes to take my bag off.

I've only got one of them. Right, right, right. I haven't actually used that, but it does make sense. It looks pretty cool. No, it's very cool. And a lot of athletes are using that now, too. They like it better than weight vests and it just sits on your body better. That's cool.

Yeah. For a person who lives, like, say, if you live in the Midwest, like, say, if you live in Kansas where it's all flat and you want to prepare for an elk hunt. What do you do? Yeah. What the fuck would you do? I guess box steps with a weighted pack over and over and over again.

You know, I get asked that question a lot and I'll kind of, when I start, when I was say late teens or whatever, trying to, I'd see elk and then just trying to be able to get that endurance where I never had to stop. And what I would do is I would go out and I would do something that was prolonged to where the point that I had to stop, I wouldn't stop, but I would switch the way that I did it. So say I pick a mountain or stairs or whatever, and you can run. And then the point that I'd have to stop, I would turn around and start walking backwards. And then I would turn and start sidestepping, and I would refuse to stop. So I'd pick a point that I knew I couldn't or almost couldn't get to. If I walked up a mountain one day and thought, I have to stop now,

at that point where I had to stop, I would just switch the type of muscle and movement that I would do. So I thought, okay, like if you're some kind of workout, whatever that workout is, but like some kind of, say, stairs or whatever. If you're running stairs and you go until your body's like, absolutely I cannot go anymore, but keep moving in just a different muscle group. Turn around and walk backwards. I do that when I hit the bag.

If I'm doing kickboxing on a heavy bag and I'm exhausted, say if I'm throwing punches and roundhouse kicks and I get so exhausted, I'm almost done and I know there's still a minute left to the round, then I'll switch to front kicks, and weirdly enough, I have energy to do that. Yeah. It's like I almost can't kick the way I've been kicking, but I can kick other ways. It's a weird way that I started just building endurance to the point where then I never had to stop. But if you're a guy who lives in a flat area.

That's exactly it. I don't know. You'd have to get, like, I've seen guys on those stair machines where it's a rotating stairs and they have a backpack on, like a heavy backpack. I think that would be the way to do it. And then try to go for like five or six hours. Fuck. Nobody's going to do it and then not and then try to go for like five or six hours fuck nobody's gonna do that no that's the thing you no one's ever prepared well that's the thing is i mean i hate to say it but how do you prepare well you just have to do it you can't you can't actually go into a go into a gym and think that you're going to be able to carry a heavy pack for days at a time. No.

There's no, like, for what I do at a hiking speed, carrying a pack, I'm really good at that. But this year we went in, we wanted to go in to the spot that was a little bit further and I got on a bike. I got smoked by a guy that was 65 years old. I mean, he rides a bike all the time. I don't ride him. I don't even know if I knew how to ride a bike all the time i don't write him i don't even know if i i knew how to ride a bike when i got on it but it kicked my ass so it's just different

it's like you know all the hiking every day with the pack i thought oh no this will be no problem and i get on that bike and get my ass kicked it's like you cannot yeah you have to do to to do in a certain level but there's certain things i could you have to do to do in a certain level. But there's certain things you could probably do. I could pedal a little bit and then I'd be like on a stationary bike every day and then you'd have more muscle memory for that type of action. So if you did the stair thing, I think that's probably the closest you could get to get that muscle memory. Yeah, I think it would be a stair thing. Yeah. Or finding actual stairs.

Actual stairs, running up flights of stairs. Yeah, there's a good place out here in Calabasas that has several, it's up the side of this hill, like many, many, many stairs. It's probably like a quarter mile all the way to the top, and I'll run it up and go down and run it up and go down. It's awesome. That's what people in the Midwest where it's flat should open up gyms, like rent stairwells

you just have packs at the bottom people get a membership they can just go up the stairs as many times as they want up and down the stairs it's amazing how just carrying your body up hills is so difficult like it doesn't to a person who never does it you're like oh we're hiking it's like walking but you're walking outside no It's way harder. It just doesn't seem like it should be. You know? Every ounce of weight on your body or even your shoes, people buy these real heavy mountaineering boots, and then they never wear them in a mountain,

and then they try to go up the mountain. It's like, what did they say? Every pound on your foot is like eight pounds on your back. Yeah. You get a pair of five-pound boots, and it's a lot of weight weight but you do need some sort of stability right i mean the reason why those boots exist like if you were going to go to the alps you need that stiff sole yeah and you have to actually walk different and a lot of people don't realize that yeah it's more of a rocking step than a uh almost like ski boots yeah it's like walking ski boots and you got to walk on your a lot of people don't walk on their toes right that's a big problem well it's modern shoes people have started going heel

to toe heel to toe humans are supposed to go ball the foot down to the heel ball the foot that's how we're supposed to run that's how we're supposed to walk but modern shoes particularly ones with heels they just accentuate that heel to toe thing which is like real weird yeah it's not well if you've hunted like people that when i was a kid i i learned to walk with my the pads my feet is just quiet right i'll stop around do you uh do you stalk animals with socks on do you still do that socks or barefoot mostly barefoot yeah just depends you ever try those like five finger shoes those yeah i've used those before. I've got pretty tough feet, so it's nothing to just take my socks off, shoes, and just walk in my socks and be real quiet.

What if you're in a rocky area? I'll still do it. Really? Yeah. Like where you were hunting in Nevada. I do that barefoot all the time. Do you really? With socks, yeah.

I'll go a couple miles and that stuff. Really? Yeah, you just get used to it. You never, it's kind of a weird, because I always thought, oh, your feet get tough. Your feet really don't get any tougher. You just get used to the sensation of. Your feet hurting. Exactly.

Well, they do get tough if you go as far as that. You ever see that dual survivor guy? What was the guy's name? Corey something or another. He had the most disgusting feet ever. Just calluses. walked everywhere barefoot.

Yeah. And he would go to the forest. They would do these survivor shows. It was like, there was a series of shows after Survivor Man came out that were ripping off

Survivor Man in a way. And this was one of the weird ones. It's called Dual Survivor. It was him and his buddy. I've never seen something. It was like so staged. Like,

what do you think we should do? Well, I don't know. We need to make a bow and arrow. And they'd be wandering through the forest. And you see this guy's fucking disgusting feet. There's his feet. I mean, that's barely a human foot. Yeah, now that, in that case.

I mean, I guess I take that back. Your feet do get tougher. You build calluses. But if you can get a rock right in that arch area yeah it'll still hurt but the bottom of his feet were just they're they're dark like a soul and like literally looks like he's got something on his feet because i really i take pride in my foot calluses they just if i ever lost them i feel like i'd start getting blisters and yeah dude you know those are that's next level well i've seen some people that go to the woods

and they go hiking and they don't they they're not prepared for it and they give these horrible like areas of their foot where their skin gets rubbed off oh yeah rubbed especially in the back like the heel area when i first started guiding this guy uh was from pennsylvania and he just he just kept pushing himself which was cool he kept hiking and I always tell him you know if something you know you aren't going to keep up just because you aren't used to it so just stop

and I'll stop just that and the other thing and I was like if anything is wrong let me know well he started to get a blister but he didn't say anything his foot started getting rubbed down well I would have just had him duct tape it up. He ended up getting gangrene. Whoa. Yeah. Just from his foot

getting rubbed inside of his shoe and then just keep pushing himself, pushing himself. For how many days did it take to get gangrene? Not that long. I think it was four or five days. Whoa. The fifth day he had gangrene. So what happens? You got to get him to the hospital? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You get blood poisoning

of some kind I think. It's weird. Wow. I didn't know you could get gangrene from hiking. Holy shit. Yeah well I think you know he just didn't

he's like just toughen it out and I'm just going to toughen it out and didn't do anything for it. I don't and I probably didn't because it hurt take the sock on it

so he's probably I don't really know what his situation was but it wasn't good. Putting the so he probably had it in a boot, sweating all day, rubbing on it, getting sweat and bacteria. Who knows? And then it just got infected. It was nasty.

I mean, you could smell it. It was rotting flesh. It was disgusting. Word of the wise, folks. Put some duct tape on that shit. Put some duct tape on it. You take a lot of guys out that have never hunted before. Yeah, quite a few.

How often do you do that every year? A couple times a year, I would say. Do you enjoy that? Is that a weird experience? No, it's fun for me. It's mostly guys that may have tried and may have been successful or it might be their first real type big game type hunt or whatever. I like it because I get to be a part of the experience

and kind of help shape that first experience because you could go out with some, I mean, I kind of say some, there are hunters out there that fit the stereotype and it's a shame. And I think somebody that's getting into hunting hunting if they go with somebody that fits that stereotype then they're probably gonna have a bad experience and that's not what hunting is to me so i think that by me being able to kind of help form that first experience and make it about the experience because for me when i go out hunting it's not just about killing something it's about the entire experience around it's the that's what hunting is you go out into the woods you

there's just certain things that i do that other people might not do but there are a lot of people that do it say i mean i pay attention to the plants that are there i pay attention to really everything you know the things that i notice someone else might notice so i point those out to them and just like give them an overall good experience of why we're out there and what we're doing and that's fun well i think a lot of people have an idea what a hunter is from television or from the movies or from duck dynasty or something like that and a lot of that is uh maybe even tree stand hunters who are maybe overweight and not fit. And they don't understand that Western big game style hunting like you do is really an athletic endeavor as well as a skill, as well as a really comprehensive knowledge-based approach to problem solving.

Like you have to know what you're doing. There's just so many factors. So much that goes into it. I mean, you're backpacking. You've got, you also have to have a certain amount of bush skills. Yeah. That's what I call it. Like, there's a lot of people that do it, but they don't have those little nuanced skills

that you pick up over time. There's a lot of things that I do that maybe people that have hunted their whole lives won't even notice just the more you do things, the more, the better you get at it, the more you notice, the more you've had times to more times you fucked up and then figured out why that got messed up. And then you try to remedy it in the future and don't do it this way. And you just start paying attention to really small things that other people might not pay attention to. Just like the way that I, it's really weird.

I've noticed even from when I first started hunting until now, the way that I do things is just completely different. It's almost like I have a method and a system, but it's all based on the millions of times that things haven't gone right and trying to progress and to be a better hunter. Right, like you see this situation like, okay've fucked this up before exactly i've no i know what's going on here why is the wind at the back of my neck i gotta get out of here now i gotta back down go around go around don't just try to push it when you pick areas that's what people that i hunt with i'll

go into a new area and i'll be fairly successful for not going into that area. But I've done it enough times to where, okay, I do things a certain way and it is constantly changing too as the environment changes. But if I'm going into an area, instead of going down that hill, I go around the other way and look at the hill facing me or things that I don't know. It's really hard to explain. Like when I'm out there, I can explain it a lot better. I can explain, okay, this is what I'm doing and this is why I'm doing it. And then there's other stuff that you do that you just it's just more of an instinct than anything and i think a lot of people have those hunter instincts that was the whole point of that apex predator show was to talk about just the

instincts that humans have that we may not even tap into when you say as a father i think you're just you have that instinct to protect your children at all costs. I'm not a father. I don't have that instinct, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere. It's like that. Nobody has to teach you that. You probably just kind of all of a sudden go, you know, a switch would just go on.

Something goes off. I think that most people would, if they're carrying their child in some kind of danger, they would do some kind of natural instinctive movement to get that child away from that danger. For sure. I mean, that's literally why human beings survived as long as we did. Yeah. And hunting is one of those primal things that you just tap into.

And there's some things that are just instinctual. And there's not a lot of lessons that people can talk about as far as like what instincts are yeah it's something that you just have to do it's that's why it's an instinct it's not you can't put it into a category you can't go to a class you can you can't read a book on instincts you can know what they are but that whole instinctual it just has to happen yeah like when that grizzly bear charges yeah something else takes over right it's not it's not steve even said he's like it wasn't even a primal level it was not fight or flight it was just this this weird you just did what you had to do in that very second there was no thought

yeah i don't know yeah it's your your almost like your dna yeah your dna is like oh we've seen this before this happened to uh Thaddeus Maximus. Exactly. 1,500 years ago, your great-grandfather was eaten by a bear. Yeah. And those genes passed on. Well, it's that time, too, when you're hunting and you go, like, it's an animal, whatever, and you just have that feeling like, I should sit here.

And then it works out, and you go, all right, I got to go over this ridge. And it's just some kind of instinct that says, to survive, you need to do this. It's hard to tap into it. And you're out there enough, you start to pay attention to the things that work and the things that don't. Well, a guy like you that has so much experience in the woods, I would imagine that you're kind of like, it's like you're data chunking. It's like you've seen so many, like you're like, oh, I know what this is. Yeah. That's the way I,

I, I kind of like think of instincts is like a bunch of ones and zeros and you're the computer. So you don't really think about all the ones and zero patterns that are in your head. You just enter a situation and then something, you know, your, your instinct is that data processing of,

okay, slow down. It might be there. Yeah. Something. Yeah, there's definitely parts of us that we, I don't think we're ever going to really experience it unless you're doing something physically.

You know, you don't even probably know you have the instinct to get the fuck away from a bear as it's charging or to juke a bear until it actually happens. You go, whoop. That was more like, get the fuck out of here but the fact that your brain was capable of coming up with that move in that moment while this 11 and a half foot monster fucking bear was coming down on you well and i think that well yannis man hitting that thing in the face with the trekking that's crazy and he probably also i don't, you'd have to ask him,

but it probably didn't even process what he was doing. And that face is as big as his table, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just huge. And that's what turned the bear. I had no clue that he did that because when Garrett was on the back, he's like, I was on his back.

And I was like, yeah, I juked it and the bear ran away you know it's just like no dude i hit it in the face with the trekking pole that's why it ran away i was like oh yeah okay the whole thing must have just been unbelievable is that that's the most intense experience you've ever had in in the woods uh intense in that in a different way it i've had a lot of just moments where they're just intense in different ways um but yeah that one was that one was pretty intense in the way that i thought oh this bear is gonna fucking kill me a big part of what hunting is too is being able to stay calm in that moment yeah and because you're you're looking for an animal you're hiking you're exhausted day in day out you're out there for a long time and then all of a sudden it comes

down to one moment and that one moment literally might be five seconds holy shit he's coming out from behind that tree draw and it's right there and you have to just be able to be there yeah you can't be thinking about something else because you just fuck it up. And you can't be freaking out. You can't go, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. You can't think that either. But it does happen.

I mean, you do freak out. Sure. Even I have done it a thousand times. You get that, like, rush of, I guess it's that rush of adrenaline.

Yeah. Do you have something that you say in your head? Like, when you draw back your bow or anything like that? Do you have like a series of things, like a checklist that you go off? A few things. I just I guess with my bow, the one thing I think, because I have a trigger release

so I just try to feel the trigger in my finger in the corner of my finger so then I know that I'm not going to like slap it or punch it or stuff. I'm thinking about that but mostly I'm I know that I'm not going to like slap it or punch it or so if I'm thinking about that but mostly I'm focusing on where I'm yeah I guess I my checklist would be like draw back pick a spot feel the trigger let it go did you ever have any classic archery training no no

no I probably what should you at this point in time well I was talking to Dudley about that and he's like he's like you could pick up a rubber band and a pencil and kill something with it like you just have instinct to do it but i i've noticed when i started hunting with a bow i just kind of tried to pick it up myself and i did everything wrong but i would go to these 3d shoots and win them not like not like real tournaments but just like local things. Right. And I'm the best shot around. That's great.

And then guys would be like, hey, you're shooting wrong. You're doing – and I just would slap the trigger. And I never thought about holding still. I would always just shoot with movement because I started shooting like a longbow. And I would watch – what was it at the time watch TNN Outdoors there was this guy named Byron Ferguson have you ever seen his stuff? this dude would throw up an aspirin and shoot it out of the air

over and over and his whole thing was be the arrow that was my only archery advice be the arrow, that's all I knew so you just be the arrow it made no sense but I'd be out there I had a ball on a string in the backyard, like a softball. I'd swing the softball back and forth and just tell myself,

be the arrow, be the arrow, shoot. It made no sense. And then when I got a compound bow, I'd just be the arrow. So I'd just move, and when it felt right, I'd let her rip. But you've obviously made adjustments because you don't move on the shot now. Right. But you've obviously made adjustments because you don't move on the shot now. Right. So in the process of switching the way that I shoot, I developed a few bad habits, which now I think if I would have just stuck with it, it would have been fine.

But now that I've tried to switch, then I kind of try to – all those bad habits that I had originally, try to creep back in. And it doesn't really – in the end, I do really well. So it doesn't really matter. But I like the idea of trying new things, and there's always room for improvement. You should talk to Dudley. Yeah. You should go over some coaching with him. Yeah, I might do that.

What's interesting to me is that I've seen a bunch of guys who are, like, very accomplished hunters and very accomplished archers. And they get real weird around him. Really? Because they know he's a master. Yeah. He's a master of form and technique. And he does it absolutely the right way.

And people do not like to get in like shootouts with him. Yeah. Like when you have like little competitions. He's too fucking accurate. Yeah. He's ridiculous. He shot, we did a video for Onnit where he shot a kettlebell handle at 120 yards. He shot in the handle at night, and the sparks, because he did it at night,

like he set a lighted knock in there and aimed for the lighted knock and shot it through, and you can see the sparks as the broadhead hits the bottom of the handle, the top edge of the kettlebell. He's a ridiculous shot, but everything he does is textbook. Right, so like a technical. Yeah, and he does that when he's hunting, too. I mean, he does that with everything. So it's real weird.

Like, guys almost have this thing in their head, like, I don't want to fuck with it. It's already very successful doing this way. I don't want to change with it it's already already very successful doing this way I don't want to change anything yeah like I'm not listening to you blah blah blah blah blah like some guys will try to revamp their whole system but a lot of really successful guys won't and they get real weird around him it's very interesting to watch I can see that old if it's not broken don't fix it but I'm not that type I don't really if somebody's really good at something I want to learn from them yeah like you know if he came to me and was like hey i want to know my thing isn't

technical archery my thing is being out outdoor skills survival skills hunting being in the woods yeah you know if he's like hey man i want to know some more stuff about stalking mountain goats and wherever be like okay cool i can tell you what i know and i'd ask him the same thing like tell me about some archery stuff because there's always areas where i can improve yeah and i'm not so stuck in my ways that i need to do it the way i've been doing it i'm not there's definitely better ways to do things but you can definitely get by the way you're doing it really well here Here's John. There's the kettlebell.

Okay, so he put a light on it. That's what he did. Yeah. Let's check it out. But you want to talk about a guy who loves archery. Yeah. He loves coaching it. He loves doing it.

It's a perfect thing for him. He loves it. And he loves teaching people how to do it too but if you watch his form it's just absolutely perfect yeah that's cool yeah and that's what i mean i love bow hunting that's my passion and i'll still go rifle hunting depending on the hunt how often do you rifle hunt every year that's a good question you know i might do one or two once a year i always uh the one hunt generally because i guide during the elk season in montana so my thing is elk meat is my number one thing that i want in the freezer so i generally save a few days at the end of the season to go out and try to kill an elk with a rifle. It's mostly just because I want that meat in the freezer.

And there's nothing wrong with rifling. And the thing about that if I take a rifle, it's also that challenge thing. So I might go into an area where the odds of me getting something with a rifle even would be a hundred or say multiple times less than the odds of me going into an area with a bow and getting something. Right, because it's just low density of animals. Low density of animals or even, well, with elk. I think it's actually easier to get an elk. Maybe people would be like, no, that's bullshit.

But it's easier to get an elk with a bow than a rifle. During the rut. Yeah, during the rut. Because most archery seasons are during the rut. That's the easiest time. It would be like a no-brainer with a rifle during the rut. Because animals are all distracted. They're trying to hump.

And mostly across the West, the elk season with a rifle, a general elk season, is the absolute worst time to find an elk. Just seeing an elk is the struggle. You might go five days and not see an elk in some areas and it's probably really cold really cold archery equipment might not even work in some of those temperatures sometimes you draw back well icicles in your yeah frozen and it gets wet and then it's frozen and then you try to shoot and how did you start going to Montana? My grandpa actually lived there. I just went there summers and grew up kind of in hunting that area and stuff. The Bitterroot Valley, southwest of Montana. What's that near?

Missoula. Missoula, okay. Yeah, south of Missoula. Yeah. And I just grew up hunting there, you know, with him. Are there grizzlies there? No, there's no grizzlies there. Some areas of Montana have them, some don't.

Yeah, correct. What's that about? Well, they have them in the park and then the main population. And then they did the reintroductions. So Glacier has them. Yellowstone has them. They reintroduce grizzlies to certain areas? Yeah.

Really? Outside of Glacier and some other areas. What do they do? They get problem grizzlies and certain areas yeah really outside of glacier and some other areas what did they do they get problem grizzlies and trap them or something as far as i know yeah they did do some transplants or reintroductions um but those parks have had them and then the ones in that greater yellowstone area have spread out and in that glacier area have spread out. Montana is a very unusual place. It's such a small population, but the people there, like, I've only been to Bozeman and Billings when we went and hunted the Missouri breaks, but people are very nice.

It's really interesting. It's like they're not hicks. You know, they're tuned in. It's weird. Montana is a small population, but that population explodes in the summer with the parks there. So it's tourist-type people coming in, and that's why

I mean, it seems like, I don't actually have the stats, but it seems like almost every year somebody dies from a grizzly now, or multiple people. A lot of people have been getting attacked, and I think it's just the amount of people that are there and just think that they're cuddly cute animals

and they don't really have precautions because i think if you go on a hunt in alaska where we went in a fog neck you're probably a lot safer than the tourists going into uh yellowstone just because you you're you should be prepared you've got the idea that these bears are dangerous and they're probably going to come at you in some way. You need to be ready at all times. And you go into Yellowstone, or Glacier Park, there's a lot of attacks around there. They've delisted bears there, right? Yeah, they're delisted now. But they don't have a season open for hunting, but that's under debate.

Correct. So the idea is their populations have reached a steady or maybe even over that level. Yep. Yeah, they're no longer threatened or potentially endangered. They aren't going to go extinct right now. Did you ever see the short-faced bear? Right now. Did you ever see the short-faced bear? You ever see images of the bear that used to live somewhere in the bearing landmass between U.S. and Asia? It's way bigger than even a grizzly.

Very large. Yeah. They think that's what might have kept people from migrating to North America quicker? That's crazy. Well, they say that polar bears still actively hunt people. Yeah. Which is, those bears, they do have a different temperament. Now, I think that the bears in Montana,

we'll just keep going back to bears, but the bears in Montana, landlocked grizzly bears, just seem to be slightly more aggressive than the larger coastal brown bears just because they don't have as much food so they're always slightly pissed off they always see everything as a as a potential meal and everything is like they look at mammals moving around on the ground as a meal as opposed to like the bears and the coastal they're looking at salmon salmon most of the year yeah they're not thinking of things walking around as being food. Yeah.

Well, salmon are a very large food source, but only in the fall. Right. So for a quarter of the year. Did you ever see that BBC special where the guy, they put him in a giant plexiglass box? Yeah. And they dropped him off somewhere where there's a large polar bear population? Oh, no. I saw one where they did with the brown bear and they got it to attack the thing.

No, this was a polar bear. Yeah, they put this box there and the guy's inside the box and the polar bear comes up to the box. This is it. So it's this super thick glass thing with steel and bolts and rivets. I mean, it literally looks like some sort of a, like something you would drop out of a fucking spaceship.

And this bear comes up and sees him and starts smelling him and tries to bite through the thing. Look at this. Wow. Fuck this, man. He's tightening everything down and freaking out. And it's licking everything. That's a big animal. Look at the fucking size of that thing.

But there's times where it opens its mouth. Yeah. And the guy's inside of it. And it can smell him through these little holes. See where its claws go into that hole? And it's trying to eat him. Oh, yeah. That thing is trying to eat them.

It's a snack on the ice right there. Yeah, I mean, it's not curious. It's trying to figure out a way to get them. Fuck, man. That's pretty cool. Well, they're so ruthless that all of them are cannibals. That's what's really crazy. There's not a lot of food up there.

No. The sources that they do have, the seals and things, are just high-fat content, so they don't have to eat as much in whales. Look at that. Yeah. That picture. Crazy. It's got its mouth open trying to bite through the glass, and its head is so fucking big.

Yeah, I mean, there's a heartbreaking video. I don't know if you saw it. It was going around a couple weeks ago of a polar bear that's starving to death. And, you know, they're attributing it to climate change. Yeah, I did see that. The Nat Geo thing. Yeah. It's weird that you do not want that to happen, right?

I mean, the last thing you want to see is a polar bear starving to death. But I also don't want to get eaten by that fucking thing. Yeah, well, just don't go where they live. Yeah, it's just, I mean, that's the balance, right? We want them to thrive and survive. We just don't want them anywhere near me. Yeah. I think they're, I mean, I've never been anywhere that there are polar bears.

Would you be interested in going? Yeah, I'd go check it out. I think it'd be cool to see. Do they have, what are those big furry things? Muskox. Muskox. Are they anywhere near polar bears? Yeah, they are.

Yeah. They've got them in the Arctic. Do the polar bears hunt those muskoxes? Nah, not that I know of. And they're mostly gopher seals and other things. So what's next for you, man? Are you going to do any more TV shows? Because I really enjoyed that Apex Predator show.

Yeah, you know, well, I'm still doing the solo hunter stuff and uh we did i did some cool stuff in australia this year and did uh buff hunting did like a solo little mission there i was with some people but then i did all the hunting alone just to get out there's pretty like far out um and still doing the solo stuff and then yeah i've got some stuff in the works for the coming future. It'll be exciting. I just can't really divulge a lot of it yet. Well, I hope you do something that allows people that are more mainstream that aren't on outdoor TV to get a look at your approach

and your philosophy and the way you look at things. Because I think that guys like you and Rella and cam haynes and dudley very valuable yeah because people have this sense that you said well you're talking about like the stereotypical idea of what a hunter is they have this idea of what it is and they see a guy like you and they go oh this guy's like more like an athlete like this is more like a pursuit This is more like an endurance skill thing on top of being a hunting thing. There's a lot of variables here that most people don't take into consideration. That's why I think it's so important to – that's why I really enjoy having you on a podcast and having guys like you on to talk about this stuff so people get an understanding of it in a different way.

Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. about this stuff so people get an understanding of it in a different way. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's nice to be able to kind of share what I do with a population that might not really understand it. Because I think if you really look at it, hunting in general and the way that myself and I'm not the exception.

There's a lot of people that hunt the way that I do, especially out West. I think that if you really understand that way then you kind of start to get a grasp of it's not bad it's actually a better system than some of the systems that we have around now and i think some of the stuff that i'm going to be doing in the future will really uh just give people more access to that and you know right now you can go get like their solo hunter episodes we have a we we decide to put them all on our website and do like a solo hunter all access kind of thing. It's just like a subscription.

You can go on there and just watch anything that we've done. I don't even know. That's awesome. I just think that a lot of times what's happening with just stories that are being told about hunting, everyone's preaching to the converted. Yeah. It's, it's all, everyone's preaching to the converted. Yeah.

And occasionally something comes along like this podcast where people maybe would have a prejudiced idea of what it is. And then they get introduced to a guy like you or Ronella and go, oh, these aren't meatheads. These aren't dumb people. Like this is a different thing. And then they realize like this is actually a very difficult, honorable pursuit and very respectful pursuit and really hard to do. You were talking about the kind of physical fitness levels that are required of you, the knowledge and understanding.

This is not like some easy thing where you go into the mountains and just go find an animal that's trying to survive and kill it, especially with a bow and arrow. It's not easy. Oh, no, it's not easy. I think if anyone anyone i used to hear those comments that people don't hunt oh you big hunter go out there and kill an animal with a gun or bow or whatever go give it a try give it a try see if you can do it because it's not as easy as

you might think it's unbelievably difficult it is it's very difficult i mean they smell you hundreds of yards away and they're like fuck this guy and they're gone yeah and you're never going to come close to them yeah and a lot of people's interactions with wildlife are in urban zones or in national parks that's like it's like disneyland it's like going to the zoo it's not like where i go into remote wilderness areas where the animals are completely wild and you have no support system no net of safety and you just have to rely on your skills and your ability, and you're just another predator out there on the mountain. And there are things in some of those places that want to eat you,

and you just have to adapt and deal with it and be prepared and go off those skills. Are those solo backpacking trips your favorite ones? Oh, by far, yeah. I love that. I love it. There's some hunts that I used to do a lot of that I try to, like, they're actually looking back going, man, that was way dangerous. I probably shouldn't do that alone. And then I still go do it.

But there's going to be some point where I'll probably go, yeah, I shouldn't. Well, where Ronell and I hunted and got attacked by the bear, I've been in there quite a few times, probably three or four times alone, solo. What? Yeah. Hunting deer and other things in there. Yeah. And I think about it and go, God, that's stupid. Terribly stupid.

Terribly stupid. And to be honest, there's times that I've been in there by myself and taken less precaution and i remember one specific time i was stalking a black tail and i pulled i had my pistol in my backpack which now obviously i would never do again but i had my bear spray on my hip and my pistol i pull it out i have no bullets in the thing and i'm on a fognac island thinking i would be dead i would have been dead if that would have happened and I wasn't by myself. And I've been in that. The shitty thing is I've been, the thing that really kind of pissed me off later

was thinking the amount of times I've been in those situations alone and just thinking, man, I got two locks on that. Why did you not have bullets in the gun? Is that just one of those things where you've just been there too many times and just packed out too many times and just yeah i think so packed out well and i did i did have bear spray i think oh the bear spray is good enough but now knowing the way that that bear charged in bear spray would

have been completely useless they'll just run right through it well the wind was blowing so so fast into our faces we would have blinded ourself in the bear probably now whether you're coated with bear spray and it wards the bear off, I don't know. No. But I wouldn't. No. You want to whip out. It's like jalapeno sauce. Yeah, you want to whip out bear spray in 70 mile an hour winds that are blowing in your

face. Maybe that time you're probably 40, 50 miles an hour, but that bear spray is not going to work in that. No, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Bear sprays, I mean, I bet it works some of the time. Yeah, I think in some instances it's probably a lot more effective. My friend Johnny Rivet said he sprayed it right in a grizzly's face and the grizzly walked right through it.

He just closed his eyes and then shook his head and then walked right through it. Yeah, I think that there's – now I think I just carry both. There are certain instances where that is probably a better option. Yeah. Because shooting something that's charging you with the pistol is very difficult yeah in that situation i think caliber that was a 44 magnum i think in in that situation you're really relying on it when the bear's on top of you yeah it's just a last ditch effort oh my god yeah any of those and even those any kind of deterrent you have i think is just hard to uh

hard to really like when it comes down it's either gonna go down and you're gonna get away and or you're not you don't do you think try everything you can but horrific experience made that place more attractive to you in about a year yeah i think so i knew the answer before i asked it yeah i was hoping you surprised the weather sucks it's hard walking around now i know that the bear attacks are legit okay let's go back i mean i'll go i'll go back there next year and hunt deer for sure yeah and i put in for tags in a different area in there so i'll go back i wasn't it wasn't one of those type of experiences where you go i think even if i had got tore up a little bit i would still go back that's just really yeah it's not tore up a little bit defined like lived through

it oh yeah what if you like lost half your nose oh dude i'd probably go I'd probably start bear hunting. Have you ever hunted grizzly? Yeah, I have once. It was one of those things I thought, well, I'll do it. I had an opportunity, and I wasn't – I'm not really just – I'm not, like, big into bear hunting. The meat, to me, is good. It's okay. But I just – It's not like elk. No, it's not meat to me is, is good. It's okay. But I just,

it's not like, it's not, no, it's not my thing. And you can't eat it medium rare. No, exactly. That's part of it. The way you want to eat it.

And, uh, and the other thing is there is, uh, like some of it's might just be like, you have emotional connections to certain things. Like I would, I don't have any desire to go hunt an African lion it's just not like you just whatever yeah you know and

not that I don't know I mean now if his thing was like you to save the species you have to go hunt an African lion then I'd probably do it but it's not something that appeals to me yeah but that's like to say to save mankind you know you have to go fuck Jennifer Beal. Right. I don't know why I came up with Jennifer Beal. Flash dance? The flash dance lady? Why is she in my head?

Jennifer Beal. What a feeling. Is that flash dance? But I did hunt bears. It's wrong of my memory. That's weird. I couldn't come up with a current hot chick. How weird.

But you did. I did, yeah. And it was like a weird so the area that i went into it was a um a predator control area and it's an area that the state of alaska so the state of alaska works different than other places so i actually went and met with a biologist and kind of like it was like what's the deal with this and so the deal was that there's the state of alaska has to manage their wildlife populations for subsistence subsistence uh food sources it's like mandated by the state so in that particular area the predator populations got so high that the moose populations and undulant populations were in severe decline

and in danger of not being able to provide food, an adequate food source for the people that lived. And when I'm talking to people that live, people live in these remote areas. Yes, they do. I've seen the shows. Yeah. It's a lot more real than those shows, but they live in these areas where there is no access to other food sources. One of the guys that I met, the only thing he eats for an entire year is bear meat.

He has no other – I mean, I don't know if he gets some kind of – he grows some kind of garden and forages as well. But his main food source through the winter is bear meat. Which kind? Black or brown? Black bear in that area. Or brown bear. It didn't matter. Whatever he could get.

So there's people that live in certain places that the only way that they live is from the animals that live there. And that's the only way they could survive. I'd like to get a scientist to study that guy. Yeah. He was an interesting guy. I mean, a guy who just eats bear? What is he like? What if he's, like, ridiculously ridiculously strong what if they get him to

deadlift no he seemed like as normal as somebody that lives off grid is yeah they're all very odd yeah so they um but anyways this particular area the bear population was so high that it was severely hurting the undulant population to the point where there might, it would be very hard to repair. So then they open up these special seasons, like for people to go in to hunt bears in this particular area with a certain objective. And since they opened it, now that area has been starting to recuperate and then they stop the predator management thing

Mm-hmm they still you can hunt certain but they have so they've got a Interesting balance and they they put a lot of time and research and into this whole deal This old there's something very bizarre about those television shows because they're they're captivating those people that live off the grid Yeah, but there's something really ironic about a person who doesn't even have a television in their house, but they're on television. That is weird. Weird. Yeah.

This guy is living as close to the land as possible, but yet there's some millennial behind a camera. Yeah. Telling him, hey man, can you pretend that you just found that again? Just put it down, pick it up again. Like, whoa, can't believe this is here. Just, you know, give me one of those. Yeah. Yeah, I think some of those people, I've met quite a few people that live, like, that aren't on television that live in the, and they're fairly strangely normal people.

Yeah. It's kind of, you would think, but they, some of them have, they might live in a shack, but they've got some kind of like internet service off their generator that they run every once in a while. It's weird. You ever see that vice piece on that guy that lives in eastern Alaska? Haimo, right? Haimo's Arctic Adventure? No. It's amazing.

Heimo's Arctic Adventure? No. It's amazing. He's been there since the 70s. And he came out there, I think, as a guide or a forestry worker or something like that. And built a cabin. And he's the last guy out there that has rights to a cabin. Really? And that they allow.

He has permits to keep this cabin out there. Heimo's Arctic Refuge. That's what it is. Haimo Korth. It's amazing, man. He's a hunter and fur trapper. He lives off of caribou, and he takes these caribou, and they're all frozen because it's all cold.

They're hanging from trees. He just saws it and throws it on the grill, like saws a frozen steak and throws it on the grill. But he's remarkably intelligent and articulate. He's not crazy. Yeah. He lives up there with his wife and, you know, she's Inuit, I guess. And is that what you would say?

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Where is it okay to say Eskimo? Because some of them prefer Eskimo. I'm not sure where the line is at. There's like, some people think that Eskimo is a slur, like you're not supposed to say it, but other ones say, no, you should say Eskimo.

So it's like, Rinella was trying to explain it to me and it went in one ear and out the other. Yeah. It's probably just where they live, I would imagine. Yeah. But this guy lives in this shack that's smaller than this room, smaller than the studio, and it's this log thing. And during the show,

a bear tried to eat his dog. So he ran out in the middle of the night. It's dark out. He's blowing his shotgun off. Boom, boom, boom. Chasing this bear through the forest and shooting it. Wow.

And then had to skin it and send the skull in and had to tell the wildlife people, like, hey, this bear tried to kill my dog, so I had to shoot it. Yeah, defensive life. Yeah. You can shoot more defensive life or property, technically. Yeah.

But this guy, again, like you're saying, remarkably normal. Yeah. It's kind of strange. But, yeah, in that area, I went on that hunt. And then I ate, because people have always said, oh, bear, whatever. I ate it, and it was fine. It was better than black bear meat, I thought. Was it really?

Yeah. So the whole, like, you can't eat them is a weird deal, because my one thing was, if I do this, I'm going to eat it. And I didn't see anything wrong with the meat. So it wasn't coastal. It was. It was coastal. So it was eating coastal. It was. It was coastal. So it was eating fish. It was eating seals.

Wow. Yeah. Maybe seals taste better. I don't know. Oh, it was summertime too, so it would have been eating fish and seals and whatever confined. Dead seals mostly. Because I remember Rinella telling me that he shot a black bear once and it'd be nothing but fish and that they smoked it and that he borrowed a friend's smoker.

He didn't say it was terrible, but he said he borrowed a friend's smoker and he said, hey, man, you've got to clean that smoker out. And he goes, why? He goes, oh, it smells like fish. And he goes, I've never smoked fish in that thing ever. And he was like, what? Really? And he realized, like, oh, no, it's coming off of the actual meat.

Like the bear ate so much fish that it tasted like fish. In the fat. Like the bear ate so much fish that it tasted like fish. In the fat. And then when they smoked this bear ham and then sliced it thin, it literally tasted like salmon carpaccio. Yeah, see, that doesn't appeal to me. That's disgusting. I think if you get your head past it.

Yeah, what it is. Like I like salmon, so why wouldn't I like that? Yeah, it's weird weird like a weird bear salmon combination yeah well somebody asked me the other day well me and ranel on meat eaters ate that coyote in mexico yeah that was weird yeah and it i wasn't at the time it just tasted like meat it was weird meat it tasted like goose or something thinking back on it like I have no desire to go out and eat coyote again. No no no That's one of those things that's too close to a dog. Yeah, that's too weird I kind of like coyotes. I like yeah, I like seeing them around. I mean, I feel like our weird neighbors

So this is this year I got man. I've got charged by a lot of stuff this year The I was hunting it where you were I sent you and Rinella. I went back there. You got charged by something up there? Yeah. So this is weird. So I'm sitting there in this, did you see like that white sandy area?

Up there was like this weird white dirt up there. So I'm sitting in this weird white dirt and it's the middle of the day, 100 degrees out. So I'm trying to get in the shade. And I'm actually, I had a trip coming up that we did, a caribou hunt that we filmed with Under Armour for one of their Ridge Reaper series. Which I've done a few of those that me and my brother, you did one. And then me and my brother did a moose hunt that was just before that. Yeah, I saw that one.

That was great. Green Trees Australia one. Yeah, Cam has a couple of them. Yeah, and Cam's got the, he had the elk hunt this year and then the he's got australia buck one he's got the time one which shows him working his full-time job yeah that was a good one so anyways i'm i'm leaving for that shortly so i'm sitting out there making a list on my phone and I'm full camoed up, but I had no gloves on and I've got my phone there. And I hear this slight noise behind me and I turn around and this coyote is running full speed at me, like full tilt. And I cock my fist back to punch it in the face and it like hits the brakes and starts skidding because it's

running downhill so i think my estimation of what happened was i'm sitting there with my hands and camoed and it saw maybe the flash of my hands working on the phone or maybe something in the flash of the phone and thought it was a small animal probably thought it was a rabbit or something i'm not sure this is just what i'm assuming it ran in so fast and so quiet i don't know what i heard but i happened to turn around at the right time and when i turned around at things eyes i swear just doubled in size and he hit the brakes and his ass started skidding toward me because i was i was gonna punch it because i had no clue what else to do and it it started it like skidded and then started rolling and then got up within –

it could have grabbed it and just wheeled off the other direction 100 miles away. But it was in full-on attack mode. I don't think it realized what it was attacking. I don't think it knew that I was a person. I think it just thought – Movement. Movement, small thing, attack. And I scared the shit out think it just thought movement movement small thing attack and when I scared the shit out of it that's crazy yeah your hands are some little squirrel or squirrel or

something it's just coming full tilt so quiet it's just so quiet I see how they can grab stuff have you ever had a mountain lion sneak up on you um not sneak up on me but i've been in very close proximity i was in arizona hunting coos deer with my bow probably i don't even know maybe even 10 years ago now and i was going through this wash and i see a drag mark and tracks i'm like, oh, a lion killed a cow and drug it through this wash. And I'm like, sweet. I was filming. I had my video camera in my backpack. So I'm bent over getting my video camera out because I'm going to like film the tracks and the drag mark and then maybe find the cow.

Well, in the wash, it's like sand and then a tree and some real tall grass and i'm bent over going through my backpack and i look up and maybe three four feet away is that cat crouched down just looking at me through the grass three or four feet away yeah within yeah two arms length so four feet away so like right where where I am. Yeah, exactly and I look up and I lock eyes with it It's just and it and it like slinks back goes underneath the log and pops up at maybe 15 20 feet and turns the stairs Shit and then I get the camera out and then it just like saunters off Like you don't film I think I got it walking away

But I didn't get it when it was close because i got it walking away but i didn't get it when it was close because now i'm like now i'm digging for my pistol which is yeah where was my pistol it was in the fucking bag too i don't know what my deal is to keep my pistol in my bag it's stupid um so then it went off well what it had done it had drug the calf into that into that patch of grass and then they kind of bury it and it just been gorging on it and it was laying on top of it and i didn't even see any of that because i'm so focused on the tracks and everything else i didn't even notice it it was the way it was laying that the cow was tucked up under this tree and covered in stuff so you couldn't see it until i went through the thick grass and that cat must have just heard me and slunk down waiting for me to go by and then it was

probably just so full it had no and they're very fairly shy animals as well but i was very vulnerable position it could have easily jumped on me easily you know the only thing i saw was its eyes in there because it blended in so well i One thing that I was shocked by when we were in Nevada is... Nevada? Nevada. There it is. So now I know. I say Nevada.

That we were in Nevada. How many domestic cows wandered through those areas grazing? And that they spend... I don't know how that works. They pay money for permits to allow these cows to graze? Yeah, you lease it and then you pay X amount to the Forest Service for grazing atonement in certain areas. And then generally you have to have them off by October 1st.

So like me and Dan Doty, we're on a stalk and we're moving through this area and then we hear some noise and this fucking cows stand in front of us like this is just weird like you feel like you shouldn't be here yeah like am i in some farm somewhere but you're not they're just just domestic cows grazing yeah and then they'll go up in horses and just round them up and push them down to the fields yeah so odd i i didn't understand that i always thought that cows were in pens and that's just the way it is. But no, there's a lot of cows that are just wandering around on grazing land. Yeah, it's all open range.

That was with all that Bundy stuff up in Oregon was about, right? Yeah, I'm not an expert on it, but I remember them talking. It was, yeah, he didn't pay his fees. Right. And he said he didn't have to because America. He was on BL his fees. Right. And he said he didn't have to because America. He was on BLM land. Right. Which, okay, yeah.

With Bureau of Land Management. Yeah. And so, yeah, and the fees weren't even that much. It's a lot cheaper than having it on private land. Yeah. Well, there's something that happens to white people when you leave them alone with guns. Yeah. Just get a little nutty.

They just leave them alone in the forest with guns. They almost always get a little squirrely. Yeah. Yeah. That was a weird standoff, though. It was very strange because there was like shootouts with the federales and everything. Didn't they take over some kind of forest reserve area? Something happened.

Refuge. Yeah. Like some kind of federal little building out there or something. And there was a shootout. I can't remember. One of them was shot and killed. Yeah. Yeah.

And then it was like a big uproar. Well, a bunch of other fucking Yahoos, white dudes with guns, flew there to sort of help out. That's when it got real weird. Remember? Yeah. There was like a big standoff. Yeah.

See, my whole thought on's when it got real weird. Remember, there's like a big standoff? Yeah. See, my whole thought on it is it's public land. It's not your land. Right. It's our land. Yeah. So you can't go do commercial shit and be like, oh, you know what? I'm just going to go open up a hotel on the Forest Service land over here because it's my land.

Yeah. I own it. No, it's everybody's land. It's everybody's land. Yeah. Yeah, but people have weird ways of justifying things. Maybe if he's giving out his beef for free to everyone who owns the land, that's one thing. But he wasn't doing that.

So before we wrap this up, do you have any interesting places that you're headed to soon? I'll be going down to Mexico next week and then... Is that Sonora? Sonora. Yeah. That's always cool down there. Yeah. It's amazing down there. I love it.

That's real Mexico, right? Yeah. It's cool. It's awesome. Are you on that ranch that Steve goes to all the time? Similar area, different place. Yeah. I thought that was amazing when they showed how they preserve buffalo, where they would

cut it really thin and hang it on clotheslines to dry it and make machaca out of it. Yeah. I've been to that place a couple times. That place is pretty cool where they've got those buffalo down there. Is that where you did that episode of Solo Hunter where you put the wolf skin on? Apex Predator. Apex Predator, sorry. Yeah, and we still, those Apex Predator episodes, you can still go apexpredator.tv,

and if you just want to get them, you can get the downloads still. I think that's the only place they exist now. But, yeah, I did that. That was cool down there. They show up sometime on DVR because I have you as a season pass. Sometimes they'll just throw one on. Yeah, that makes sense. On the channel, and it'll just pop up.

Yeah, that's what my buddy was like. They're doing an Apex Predator marathon. What? Can they do that? Did you want to do more of those? Yes and no. I really enjoyed doing it. But the other thing is I also liked everything else I was doing.

And there's a lot of, well, TV networks are dying. Yeah. They just. It seems like. Yeah. They don't want shows that are. I thought it was an extremely high-quality show for that network, and those high-quality shows cost too much for that network to make is what it ended up being.

Now, is there a way to do something like that for the internet? Because I know that Netflix is starting to do – Ronella shows on Netflix, and he's still on regular TV too, right? Yeah. I think they're just reruns. I don't think there's any new stuff. I'm not sure. So the new stuff is just going to be on Netflix? I don't know.

I'm not really sure on that. That's interesting. Yeah. I'd have to ask him. But yeah, I think there will be a place for that kind of stuff in the future when I think. But I enjoyed doing it. But I also didn't want to do 15 episodes of it a year. Right.

Because there was other things that I enjoyed doing. I enjoy doing those Under Armour pieces. I enjoy doing solo hunters. I enjoy doing a lot of stuff. I don't like just doing one thing. And you do a lot of New Zealand as well. Yeah. So I'll be going over to New Zealand this year.

That's a weird place. Yeah. Because that's a place where, again's all invasive all invasive species new zealand and australia i really liked australia when i went there actually that uh video with green tree and cam i actually swung by kind of crashed their party for a couple days went in there hunting it's cool it's fun yeah i had a good time over there and then i went and did my own thing uh after they after they left for their buffalo i kind of went off and did my own thing somewhere completely different yeah you went by yourself right um yeah i i have a friend over there and so we drove out into arnhem land which is like aboriginal land we got special permission

and got all these permits and everything and we drove out there and went hunting for a week and a half two weeks something like that and uh and then we because we only had one vehicle between the two of us so we i'd drop him off somewhere and then i'd drive out and then go hunt and the next day he would take the vehicle and i would go out and hunt so i was hunting by myself for most most of it which was i liked that experience because it's kind of that dangerous buffalo but it's when you only have a bow and you're completely by yourself there's no you aren't going to get medevaced out of there in a helicopter because you're 13 hours by vehicle from the nearest town you know i don't know how you'd even get out you'd be in a world of hurt yeah Yeah, you hear that out of green tree

Fuck that place He keeps trying to get me to go there. Stop it Adam. Yeah, it's a cool place. I Enjoyed it. It's a certain type of person will really like it and other people will hate it Yeah, people like you that's why you need to have a television show or not if not a television show some real or not if not a television show some real in-depth show that that they do on the internet that shows like the preparation that's involved i just think it's something that most people are ignorant to yeah i think so i'm kind of obsessed with that the idea of explaining it to people yeah yeah i think that that hunt you can i filmed it for solo so you can watch that on i thought that turned out

pretty good that was very cool. I saw it. But there's just something, too, about North American hunting. And we have so much awesome, we have a lot of awesome places here. A lot of people live close to them, probably don't even take advantage of them. But there's a lot of cool places and a lot of cool things you can do in the U.S. and in the western U.S. And there's just a lot of cool places around.

Well, one of the things that I said when we were in Nevada, is that right? Yeah, got it. When we were up there outside of Reno, it's like three hours outside of Reno, somewhere like that. Yeah. Is that what it was? I was saying this might as well be some alien world. Oh, yeah.

Like, there's nothing up there. No, it's a lot of public land and not much in between. And these big, giant hills and valleys where there's nothing in them but animals, and it's just weird. Yeah, it's not flat. No. Those mountains are 13,000 feet. Yeah.

The top of one of them. It's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible. But it's also incredible that so few people understand that this is all public land. You can go out there anytime you want. You can go travel this stuff. And that's one of the reasons why people like backcountry hunters and anglers and conservation groups are so important. To preserve your access to these places.

Because there are so many places like that that are just fantastic and they're there for you and most people don't even know about it even if you have zero desire to go hunting just go and visit just go and wander through those woods in idaho just go yeah there's some cool places that there's it's just cool to walk into a spot, especially Idaho's got huge wilderness areas. Walk in there and look around and think it's what everything looks like when there's no roads, when there's nothing. You might be the only person for it's a cool feeling to know that there's no one else around. And it's not much different than it was 5,000 years ago. No, it's not.

It's not much has changed. All right. I got to get out of here before I start coughing up a storm. Cool. Fighting off a little bit of a cold here, Remy Warren. Uh-oh. That nasty flu virus. I should have worn my mask.

It's not a flu virus. I just have a mild cough. It's no big deal. Yeah, sure. But it's really fine. That's how all pandemics start. I'll show you. It is.

That's how the zombie virus starts. Remy Warren on Twitter. Remy Warren on Twitter. Remy Warren on Instagram. And how else can people see your stuff? Facebook? Facebook, yeah. Mostly Instagram, Remy Warren. And then Solo Hunter.

And then the Solo Hunter episodes. Yeah, solohntr.tv. All right. Remy Warren, ladies and gentlemen.