The Joe Rogan Experience - #1074 - Cameron Hanes

Episode Date: February 6, 2018

Cameron Hanes is a bowhunting athlete, “training intensively each and every day to become the Ultimate Predator” and he also has a podcast called "Keep Hammering with Cameron Hanes."

Usually I have it, but it goes away after a month or so. I've had it for like four months, pretty solid. Ooh, and we're live! Cam Haynes, how you doing, buddy? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. Welcome to California. I know, and this place is amazing. It's pretty badass, right? Yeah, we did the grand tour, and I'm ready to lift. Yeah, we're gonna shoot first.

I don't want to have poor accuracy. No, right. That's like your whole motto of run, lift, shoot. Yeah. Shouldn't it be shoot, lift, run, or shoot, run, lift? I don't know. You run in the mornings, and then you run at night too, right? Yeah.

You have a problem. Yeah. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah. That's too much. Well, I just fall back on the moderation is for cowards so that like pretty much covers any psycho overdoing in excess i'm like just it can be like no i'm just not a coward and what about over training is that yeah yeah it's totally

but you were saying before that when you were 20 you're 50 now when you were 20 you could never do what you could do now when you're 50. no so if you tried to do what you do now at but when you were 20 you could never do what you could do now when you're 50 no so if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20 wouldn't it be over training i'm confused well i mean if you weren't in shape yeah enough obviously you're in great shape because you do this all the time but if you weren't in great shape and you tried to keep this up like what you're doing right now yeah no i i feel i don't know i feel good who is here jamie somebody just walked in delivery oh okay um so when you were 20 did you do anything um i mean i've always been active right you know i always played sports and ran 10k in the summers and things like that. Just worked out a little or something?

Yeah, yeah, just wanted to lift a little bit, but not to the level I'm at now. Yeah, but when I look at your Instagram, I get tired. Yeah. I do, because you're doing all that shit, especially that shit you're doing with Outlaw Strength. Yeah, Eric. Eric.

Yeah, yeah. Outlaw Strength on Instagram. You guys are doing ridiculous amounts of reps. Yeah, we do. It's all about the reps. And it's like, I don't know. Like I say, your body gets used to what you ask of it. If I would have tried to do that exact same thing when I was young, no way.

I mean, I'd probably be so sore I couldn't do anything for a week. Yeah, that's what I was thinking also when I was looking at it. I was like, if you stop doing this, how long will it take before it slides off? One day. Because when I don't work out for one day, I'm skinny, fat, and weak. No, for real. How many days? What's the longest you've ever taken off?

Probably hunting. Oh, okay. If I'm at home, I would never take any time off. But when I'm hunting, because that's what I'm there for. Right, but when you're hunting, at least you're hiking. Yeah. There's a lot of physical activity. Right.

There's a lot going on there. But when I watch your videos, those Instagram videos of you guys, okay, we're going to do 100 reps of this, then we're going to do 100 reps of that. Yeah. Because right now, I told you I'm suffering through this little tendonitis thing that I've been trying to fight off. Yeah. see all those reps and my elbow starts hurting when I'm looking at the screen. Yeah. People ask me about my joints or about, because they're battling different things like that. And I have no idea. I mean, I just, I don't have, I've been lucky where

I don't have injuries. That's very disappointing. Yeah. I'm banged up a little bit, but I've talked to you before where I've had to take Advil every day, and not anymore. Well, tell that story because that's a crazy story. And I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here, but I called you after Rhonda Patrick did a podcast with me, and she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non-steroidal anti-inflammatories. That's what ibuprofen is. Right.

And she was saying it ruins your gut biome and that it actually causes inflammation. And so the people that are taking Advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation. Right. Yeah. So you quit. I quit. And then I wasn't, and I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like, not only did it not help after a while, but it made it worse, essentially the inflammation. So after hearing that and you know, who's ever going to question Rhonda Patrick, I mean, I would never. So I'm like, well, you know, who's ever going to question Rhonda Patrick? Right. I mean, I would never.

So I'm like, well, I better stop that. So since then, I haven't been taking anything. And then I have taken, there's this, you can get it at the health food store. It's called Kratom. Oh, yeah. You ever heard of that? Yeah. That seems to help.

You know, they're trying to outlaw that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently, that Kratom stuff, I had Chris Bell on the podcast. He's doing a documentary about Kratom. And he did that documentary, Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Yeah, I know who he is. He brought in some guys that sell Kratom, and they're explaining what it does.

And I tried it. And when I tried it, apparently, if you take it in low doses, it's like almost a mild stimulant, which is what it felt like to me. But if you take it in higher doses, it relaxes you, and it's really good for pain. And Chris has had hip replacements. What did he say about it? Was it positive or negative?

Positive. There's no negative. There's no downsides to it. It's not addictive. It's not bad for you. It's an it. It's not addictive. Right. It's not bad for you. It's an herb. It's not toxic at all. Right.

So that's, I mean, if it's. So, of course, the government's trying to make it illegal. Oh, you can't have stuff out there that actually helps. Yeah. They're trying to label it with fucking heroin and shit. It's just, they're so crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's, but I think that's helped. But other than that, I don't take any, I mean, nothing. And I feel great. That's crazy. that's helped. But other than that, I don't take any, I mean, nothing. And I feel great. That's crazy. That's amazing. So when you're doing all these reps, like so you're doing, you do these crazy things on like the lat pull-down machine where you do the whole stack, right? The goal is 20 of the stack of everything. That's fucking ridiculous.

So how do you not get like joint pain? I don't know. So just because you do it all the time? I'm not sure. Your body's conditioned to it? I can't. Makes me want to do it. I know.

But I don't want people to... I mean, it's taken a while to work up there. Yeah. Right? So I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate and then get hurt. Yeah. Because I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a change a lifestyle change and then they something happens and then you know they get hurt yeah I was doing chin-ups um three or four times a week I decided I was going to do 50 chin-ups

uh at least three or four times a week just just make sure I did them all the time and then on top of that I was doing heavy cleans 90-pound cleans with kettlebells cleans and presses. Mm-hmm. I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain Yeah, and I didn't want to be a pussy. So I kept working out through it. Yeah, and it would be fine like During the workout it'd be fine Like it would start to hurt at the beginning of the workout But then once the blood would get flowing then it would be fine. Mm-hmm and then After a couple of weeks of that my my arm was like hey fuckhead yeah this is enough of this yeah cleans are tough though yeah they're hard i mean i i know i know what i can get away with um i don't do deadlifts you know i used to do deadlifts i used to do all this stuff now i'm

like i you know even though i want to do i i want to maybe every once in a while try a deadlift. Because I know it feels good. I mean, my hamstrings feel good. My back feels strong when everything works right. But I just know that it's just not smart. There's a high possibility that the chick could go south. No, something gets tweaked in the bottom. And then, you know, it's one side.

And then it's, you know know i feel it down my leg and i'm like not you were for a while you were taking that 130 pound rock and throw it in a backpack going up mountains with that you're still doing that no it's gone my rock's gone what happened the rock i don't know somebody stole it i guess so you would leave it in the same spot roll it off the side of the mountain There's some dude who probably jerks off on that rock. Probably. This is a campaigns rock. Sounds fun. I wouldn't be surprised.

I've seen a lot of things online. Oh, yeah. There's some great people and there's some crazy people. Oh, there's mostly great people. Yeah, for sure. I find that my interactions online are almost mostly positive. Yeah. Like, by far.

The problem is that's like having mostly non-poisonous food. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of poison is enough. All you'd have to do is go to this restaurant one out of ten times. They fucking poison you. You'd never go back to that restaurant again. Yeah. I don't even think it's one out of ten.

I think the interactions that I have online that are negative, it's not even one out of a hundred. No, I don't think so. For me, those are the ones that I am drawn to. And I find myself, I see the negative, and I go past all these positive, and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood after a whole day of getting beat down by stupid comments,

I'll have to do something. And then I'll be like, why did I? So then I go back and I try to acknowledge some positive ones because I feel guilty. Well, I saw you post a picture of a bear that you shot the other day. It was a video of a bear you shot. And I said, ooh. I looked at those comments. I'm like, here we go.

Which one? It was you. You shot a bear and you were opening its mouth and checking its teeth. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And I saw that video and I was like, whoa, that's a landmine right there.

Yeah, I know. Bear. You know, bear. It's crazy. It is. That is the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because of teddy bears and because of Yogi and because I really want to take anybody who has these weird thoughts about bears. I just really want to bring them to John and Jen's place in Alberta.

Yeah. And I want to say, why don't you, we're going to come hang around and if we're lucky, we're going to see a bear tear apart a baby bear. Yeah. Because they do that every day. All the time. They get up out of their dens and they go looking for baby bears. Yeah.

And then maybe if we're lucky, we'll see a bear get a hold of a fawn. And it'll be crying and it'll eat that thing alive. Yeah. They'll have a different take on it. They'll be like, kill that. Yeah. Just people are nuts. They're trying to bring wolves into California.

Or Colorado, rather. They're talking about bringing wolves into Colorado. Like, listen, folks, you don't have to do that. You don't. You already have bears. You know, I saw this the other day. I think I put up, I think it's what inspired me to put up, there was a wolf video I posted. There's some great wildlife videos out there.

Oh, it's crazy, right? Great. They can be emotional, like with that bear killing the elk calf where it was crying. That was rough. I don't even like to see that. I mean, I'm a hunter. But there's one where these wolves were chasing down this cow elk. And, you know, that's not a quick process.

And I put that up because I had seen a couple celebrities, and I don't even know who the hell they are, movie stars, I think, or something. But they're Save the wolf fun or some wolf bullshit and they're like howling they're two humans and they were howling like they were wolves and it's like i i don't know i mean wolves are great wolves are i had wolves are one of my favorite animals you know call the wild white fang. Those books, I love those Jack London books when I was young. So wolves have always held a special place in my heart. But they're straight killers. Yeah, they're organized.

That's what they do. Intelligent killers. So, I mean, I'm not hating on them for doing that. But you just can't have wolves running around everywhere. Well, yeah, you can. You don't understand. Right. In my neighborhood.

Yeah. I was at home the other i i made a recording of this because i was at home my dogs are barking like crazy it's like nine o'clock at night just it's like what the fuck is going on and i i step outside and these coyotes are like a half a block away from my house just screaming yeah those are wolves those are little wolves yeah and they got a hold of something and then they're celebrating some dude sent me a video uh that's on his page of uh it's a compilation of all these videos from security cameras of coyotes killing cats and dogs yeah yeah those are wolves that's what they do. Those are the little wolves. That's all they are.

Yeah. I mean, they can breed with wolves. I mean, they literally are wolves. It's a fascinating thing, the disconnect that people have with predators. Yeah. You know, look, if I was in Idaho or Montana and I saw wolves, I'd be pumped. I would think it would be awesome. Mm-hmm.

But you got to keep an eye on those things, folks. There's a reason why they killed them off 150 years ago, and it wasn't because they're awesome. It's because they will kill people. They will kill your kids. They will kill your dog. They will. I've seen wolves in the wild.

I saw a pack on Prince of Wales Island one time. They came down to the to the water once and i've seen them i had a wolf tag actually when i was in british columbia hunting buffalo and i thought i was going to get a shot at a wolf um up there but i never have but now they give tags up there because they're trying to diminish the population yeah because they have too many it's 50 bucks it's the same as in al Alberta. I mean, we get our bear tags when we go up there to John and Jen's and, you know, $50 for a wolf tag also. So it's not like there's a low number of wolves, you know. But every time I've seen them, I have been in a certain amount of awe just because they've been like this amazing animal for my entire life.

And it's hard not to look at a wolf and not think regal and wild and you know there's that saying that um you know you'll see bears and lions in the circus but you'll never see a wolf yeah you know they're just and i did the commercial with the wolf too which is which is was amazing but uh well that under armor commercial you told me was pretty crazy because they had this scene where the wolf snarls And they had to save that scene for the very end. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because it was They said, you know, it was supposed to be me against a wolf going after this elk. Mm-hmm, and then I ended up winning that little the story as it was told and

They needed to get the wolf snarling and so they brought some meat out gave it some meat but they said well i actually gave it then took it away and obviously that's going to make any animal upset especially a wolf but they said once we do that we're done with the wolf because it's it's not gonna just snap out of it and it's just gonna that's gonna be its mindset for a while about it's not gonna be happy yeah there it is yeah go back to that i think it shows at the end it should yeah yeah fuck and that was actually i mean people thought that that was edited and it wasn't you know right there with me no it was right there with me. You know, they did a great job of putting that commercial together.

It wasn't necessarily snarling at me or growling at me, but it was there. It was fun. That was amazing. How big was that wolf? I think it was about 130 pounds. I mean, it was tall. That's a big – that's what surprised me is how tall they are. Long legs, right?

Yeah, and I think, think you know we were talking about earlier as far as endurance goes wolves i believe are the number one animal out there as far as they can run miles and miles and miles and they're tall and they can just you know their gait is you know whatever it allows them to go for hours and miles yeah i was talking about running with my dog you know and he's only a year old And he's in such good shape now because he runs with me all the time. See, if we run two miles, I run two miles. He runs seven or eight. Right.

Because he's running up and back and up and back and up and back. Yeah. But it's amazing, like, how good a shape they're in right out of the box. Yeah. I mean, he's a fucking puppy. Yeah. And he just books it up that hill just yeah he turns around looks at me come on bitch i know and he comes running back to

me yeah animals you know uh animals pretty much have the advantage over us on everything other than you know i mean they're stronger stronger jaws uh you know the their muscles stronger for what they have. We have endurance as an advantage over most animals. Potential endurance. Like elk. But luckily we can use our minds. Well, that is the reason why we're so weak. It's so fascinating how things balance out. It's like us using our mind, creating houses and cities and cars and just

sitting in a chair all day it makes you soft but then you figure out how to make a gun yeah and that balances everything out yeah unless the gun jams and then nature comes back into play yeah yeah all these people that are you the wolf, save the wolf. The wolf's okay. Guys, go to Idaho. People are freaking out up there. The wolves are okay. More than okay.

You go to Alaska. I was in Park City recently in Utah. And when I was there, we went to a store that had a wolf rug. And I was like, Jesus, you guys are selling a wolf rug? And the guy explained to me, he said, well, these wolves are all shot by the government in Alaska because they're overpopulated. So they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose population for the indigenous people that are subsistence hunters right and live up there and they have like a certain quota and he's like so it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're going to shoot these wolves no matter what they're trying to keep the populations in check and i think that's that's

something that these people that have that because see the problem with like celebrities it's like they probably didn't think that shit through at all. They just think this is a cool thing to be a part of. Of course, everybody wants wolves to live. I'll just go and say, we've got to support the wolf. We've got to save the wolf. And so it looks like a cool thing for you to be a part of. I think one of them would have been Lisa Bonet.

She's kind of a hippie, right? Oh, she's a super hippie. Yeah. She's got a nose ring. Yeah. Everything. She's pretty. I a hippie, right? Oh, she's a super hippie. Yeah. She's got a nose ring. Yeah. Everything. She's always, she's pretty. I remember that.

Yeah. Remember, isn't it funny that Bill Cosby was mad at her because she was naked in a movie? Remember? She was naked in Angel Heart with Mickey Rourke. And he was mad at that, huh? He was mad at that. Isn't that funny? Yeah.

Funny how things work out? It's ironical. Yeah. It's ironical. Yeah, it is ironical. I mean, look, I don't know. I think wolves are awesome. Don't get me wrong, folks. I just don't think, and this was me too before I started hunting, before I started taking regular trips into the woods.

You know, you don't get it. You just don't get it. You got to go there. You do. If you don't go there, you don't get it. Yeah don't get it you got to go there you do if you don't go there you don't get it yeah you know it's uh we try to tell the story i mean we're telling the story and it's getting through to some people i mean i can see it i can see the there's education there i mean and i'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted who are interested in it who just want to know what the lifestyle is because we've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and and it's and it's easy to do because it's the mountains and the mountains are you know you get

that connection and you get that empowerment um so i i think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit i got a message from a guy uh a while back maybe four or five months ago who was a vegan for a long time, started listening to the podcast. At first was upset about the talk about hunting. Ran into some health issues. His doctor recommended he start eating animal products again. Started with eggs, worked his way back up to meat,

ate meat again. Was getting healthy, grass-fed, ethically sustained animals, ethically raised animals. Decided to go hunting. Became a hunter. Shot his first deer, ate his first deer, and now he's going to be a hunter. I mean, this guy went full circle. Right. Part of the journey of him going full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast

and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting are all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it yeah you know well there's a couple points i want to there. One of them is your podcast has been amazing for the education part. And I mentioned this, Adam and I did a podcast with the Gritty Bowman. And I said, you know, Joe's podcast, just because the type of person Joe is, as far as being open-minded and giving everything a chance, not coming in with biases or the the same type of listeners you have. You've kind of cultivated or, you know, they like you because, I don't know, they see themselves in you maybe.

But anyway, so those people have come in and listened to these podcasts like this without that bias. And when you listen to it and listen to us talk about it, it's not the redneck, you know, laughing because they're killing things, person they may have thought. It's, you know, this whole thing. This whole thing us talk about it it's not the redneck you know laughing because they're killing things person they may have thought it's you know this whole thing this whole thing we talk about and so this podcast in particular is i think been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting and um just the empowerment of being a hunter and so that i don't know just just this venue i don't know i don't know, just this venue, I don't know. I don't know if we could have ever done that without, you know,

the Joe Rogan podcast. It's been amazing. I don't know. Have you noticed that? I mean, with other things besides hunting? I think floating, that's a big thing. Sensory deprivation tanks, that business was going under. There was virtually no tank centers

in the world. There was one of them in Burbank, and I had heard one of them was in San Francisco. They were hard to find. There was none in New York. One guy had one in an apartment in New York that you could rent out. A guy had one like that in his house in Vegas that you could rent out.

There was none. Now there's hundreds of tank centers all over the world and when you fill out a form Dude, I got one in 2002. I bought a house. The house had a basement and I bought the house with the basement for two reasons.

One, because I wanted to put a tank in there. And two, because the yard was big so I could have my dogs running around the yard. I just wanted to have a yard where the dogs could run around. Those were my two requirements for a house. Everything else I was like, I really don't give a shit about it. The TV sits there and okay, here's where the bed goes. I'm a man.

There's things that women sweat when it comes to houses that dudes just don't sweat but for me a big one was i tried to tank a couple of times at this place called soothing solutions in burbank i don't even know if it's around anymore but um and then uh i put a tank in my basement and then i started ranting and raving about it and doing these youtube videos about it and then i got a new tank from the float lab so i gave my old tank away online i had like a raffle not a raffle but like a random draw i said just send me an email i gave an email address out and i'll just pick a random person so i literally just scrolled through my email i'm like thank right there and picked this guy out and sent my tank to him and had it set up and sent the salt

down to him the whole deal and then um that alone just having that contest and giving away a tank yeah and then putting together this video for the tank red band put together this really cool video about it so these tank centers because me talking about it on the podcast started opening up all over the world to the point where now when you sign up at a lot of tank centers the first time you go there they say how'd you hear about us whether it was through the internet through books or joean, like I'm one of the options on a lot of their questionnaires. And that, that probably has had even more of an impact than, than hunting. Well, it's, you know, it's amazing. I, I hear it all the time. Well,

people have told me, uh, you wouldn't be anything without Joe Rogan. That's some comments that I've got. See, there you go again. You're concentrating on the negative ones. I know, but. I wouldn't be bow hunting if it wasn't for you. Right. So there you go. I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for that.

I wouldn't be the me that I am now. So there you go. Okay. Well, I put it because I was like, God, I know. I don't know i think we've talked about it before but this podcast gets to more more people than cnn is that right oh yeah yeah for sure so it's and i heard uh jordan peterson talking you heard me don lemon what that's good that's good because i i trust this more than cnn you don't trust CNN? Oh, you're a redneck.

Definitely. You're all on that Fox News tip. Oh, Fox News now. That's where you get your news. That's solid reporting. That is legit. That's Sean Hannity. That guy, I trust him with everything.

Yep, I hear you. And I heard Jordan, because we're talking about his recent trajectory. I mean, he's been, I'm assuming he's been brilliant his whole life. Yeah. Well, in the last 18 months or two years or whatever. And I think a lot of that is because of here. So I put in my phone, I was like, I'm going to do some research on Joe Rogan before this. I'm going to turn the tables on him. I'm going to podcast him.

So I was like putting in there Joe Rogan influence or Joe Rogan effect or whatever. And I couldn't find anything. So I think I think I think I need to write something to quantify that. But but yeah, this gets to so many people. It gets to a lot of people. But in all honesty, like just being not not even just trying to be humble, but all I'm doing is talking about shit that's out there. It's real simple. It's like I'm not really doing anything unusual

other than that. Just being open-minded, which I try very hard to do. Yeah, but when you say you just do this and just do that, nobody else does that. They come in with these biases. So you say- That's a problem. Yeah, you say you just do that. That's a big thing. Yeah. I think people need to stop doing that. Nobody else does that. They come in with these biases. So you say- That's a problem. Yeah.

You say you just do that. That's a big thing. Yeah. I think people need to stop doing that. I think that's a big part of the problem we have in this world. And I was talking with Dan Harris from Good Morning America. That's what he's on, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And he used a word that I love, a term that I love, toxic tribalism. Yeah. And he used a word that I love, a term that I love, toxic tribalism. Yeah. So, I mean, you see that with CNN versus Fox News. It's like neither one of them want to look at things objectively. Fox News has a very clear right-wing bias. CNN has a very clear left-wing bias. Yeah. And they just go to war with each other. Right.

And then the president's calling everybody fake news. It's hard to see what's really going on. People want to look at their side. They want to defend their side. And they never want to say, okay, I see this guy's point. But you got to be able to see people's points. I mean, that's one thing that I always say about vegans after I make fun of them. I say, I understand why you would want to do that, and I think it's a compassionate choice. I get it.

I totally understand. So do I. I do, and I support their decision. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think you should be real careful with your health if you're doing that, though, and I'm not bullshitting. This is not me being facetious. Meathead.

Yeah, I'm not being a meathead. You should be careful with your health. There's a lot of things that you should probably check. B12 is a big one. That's a huge issue with vegans, is B12 deficiencies. And I think if you are a vegan, you should consider supplementing

with things that you don't have a problem with eating, like maybe even some cricket protein or mollusks, like shellfish. People should look into shellfish. Shellfish, not only are they sustainable, but they're so primitive, they don't even have like a neurological system. Like they don't feel any fucking pain. Like you could eat clams all day long.

They don't know what the fuck is going on. We have this idea about clams because they do that, because they close. It's somehow, oh, the poor little thing is just trying to hide. There's pearls in there. No, that's oysters. Oh, okay. I don't know anything about either. I know about bow hunting.

Yeah. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. But to me, meat tastes better. Yeah. You feel better, too. No, but as you were saying, I don't have a problem with vegans or their diet. And I understand. I mean, if you think about killing an animal, nobody wants to kill animals, right?

I mean, that's not – I don't know. That's never – You don't want to kill an animal for no reason. No. You want the meat of the animal. The act of killing it is not enjoyable. No. It's part of the process. It's a weird sense of loss, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so I get that they're like, well, I don't want to kill any animals. I get it. That's fine. Yeah. But yeah, just having that, you know, the biases that come they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack people who eat meat and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves because they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed. I think the opposite happens.

I think it shores up people's aggression towards vegans. They firmly plant their heels on the other side of the line. Yeah. And they're like, fuck you, hippie, greenie, asshole, tree-hugging bitches. Yeah. Go eat your sprouts. Right. I'm going to go over here and eat a burger.

I mean, there's a lot of people that go out and eat burgers because of that. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. You know, my friend Mike Hawkeridge from BC met him. Yeah. Mike was dealing with people from Vancouver that were sending him hate mail because of wolves. Now, where he lives, he lives in the real British Columbia.

Where there's fucking wolves and grizzly bears everywhere. Yeah. We found a wolf kill while we were up there. It was pretty wild. The wolf had got a hold of a moose calf. It just tore it apart. Yeah. A pack of wolves.

Yeah. Hair all over the place. That's what they do. It's pretty fresh, too. But he's shot a hold of a moose calf and just tore it apart. A pack of wolves. Hair all over the place. That's what they do. It's pretty fresh, too. But he's shot a bunch of them. And somehow or another, some group of people found out that he shot wolves. And where he lives, you get an unlimited amount of wolf tags. They're trying to kill wolves as much as possible.

You can kill 100 wolves a day if you can. And that's totally legal. Because they have ranchers up there. And like one of, I think one of his neighbors, a wolf, it was in the middle of the winter. A wolf got a hold of one of the cows, a bunch of wolves, a pack. So these people are in their house. They're listening to a pack of wolves tear apart a cow that's like, you know, 100 yards from their fucking bed.

Scary, freaky shit. Right. They live in the real wild. So these people were sending him all these death threats and so he said, look,

every time you guys send me one of these, I'm going to shoot a wolf in the guts. Yeah. Radio silence. They stopped? Yeah.

He said to this lady, he said, every time you send me an email, I'm going to shoot a wolf in the guts. Yeah. Well,

I don't know. She's probably in front of her keyboard going, ah! Yeah. I want to. That was a tough one. I'm going to kill a wolf though. That was a in front of her keyboard going, I want to. That was a tough one. I'm going to kill a wolf, though. That was a tough one.

Yeah, you know, BC, they're just outlawed grizzly hunting up there because they did a poll in, I think, Vancouver. Not only that, they did a very limited email poll with about 3,000 participants. Right, Yeah. And 76% of 3,000 people said that they were opposed to grizzly bear hunting. But I think if you're going to have any kind of a poll like that, you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about. Do you really understand what it's like up there?

I know. Because if you talk to Mike, Mike shot a grizzly bear in the head from like 20 feet away as he was trying to get into his cabin. Like, they are fucking ferocious and they're huge. And there's a lot of them. There's no shortage of grizzly bears in British Columbia. No, but it's that whole education piece. But that's, I mean, you could take that to even voting in our elections. Sure.

I mean, we need to educate people. People need to be educated on the topics, not just hunting, but everything. But they can vote. Their vote still counts. You can't tell people they can't vote because that's fucked up. You can't say, well, you have to have a certain amount of education or you can't vote. No, but what they need to do is trust the people who do know. You know, like up there, the biologists who actually have boots on the ground

and they know what grizzly are doing and how many there are. Let's go and trust those people. It's hard to see when you're in Vancouver, though. The problem is you're in Vancouver, you're eating at a nice sushi restaurant, you're hanging out with your friends, you know, you're going to the movies, everything's beautiful. Vancouver's so nice. Yeah, it's beautiful. You look at the mountains, you whistle off in the distance.

Oh, it's so pretty. I don't want to kill a bear. Don't kill the bears. But if you just go on a six-hour car ride, just go, just keep going north, keep going north, get out of your car, and I want you to go for a two-mile hike into the woods. Just go for a two-mile hike.

And I want you to sit there for a day. Just sit there for a day. You're going to see some shit. And you will realize, oh, this is a different world. This world is a wild world. These things out here, they don't give a shit if people are real or not. They are there doing what they've always done. The bear running around looking for shit to eat.

The animals are running around looking to get the fuck away from things that are trying to eat them. Yeah. And this is how they've always existed. Yeah. Yeah. I know. And it's just like the wolves killing the cow, you said, 20 feet from wherever they lived. I mean, that's just what they do.

And that's what grizzlies do. Grizzlies are going to kill. If they can kill a moose calf or an elk calf or a deer fawn, they're not wasting a bunch of energy chasing a full-grown animal around. So they're using less energy, burning less calories. They get an easy kill. They get high protein. That's just what they do. But the reason why we need to kill them is they're never going to stop doing what they do. We just need to control the numbers.

So how often that's happening. If that's happening too often because there's too many of them, well, then the moose and elk numbers go down. You know, it's just balancing act. And people will say, well, just let animals take care of themselves. They always have been. And it's like, no, we've always hunted. It's just now that people are saying, well, we shouldn't hunt. So they're trying to take man out of the equation now.

Man's always been in the equation as far as hunting. Yeah, I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed. I mean, people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone. Everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads. And when they were doing market hunting in particular in the 1800s and many people attribute that to hunters um erroneously that's not really what it was what killed off all those animals was a thing called market hunting and this is back people have to realize there's no refrigerators back then and so you know you weren't like getting

steaks and freezing them and there was not a a lot of like large scale agriculture back then either. There's there was a few ranchers and farmers. But when people had all these animals that were out in the wild and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done with the war and they were good shots, they would this would be a good way to make a living. Go out there and shoot some buffalo. Bring back the tongues. Buffalo tongue was like they would shoot a giant buffalo and just take the tongue. They'd take the hides and, you know, sometimes they would take the meat and some, and then they, they wiped out almost everything.

They wiped out most of the deer, most of the elk, most of the antelope until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hit the fucking brakes. Like we got to protect these animals. We got to protect this land. We've got to protect these animals. Until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hit the fucking brakes. Yeah. Like, we've got to protect these animals. We've got to protect this land. We've got to protect these animals. We've got to set up private or public land, rather, where you can't do anything to it, where people could just roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want.

And we've got to make sure we protect these animal populations because they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the turn of the century, right? Yeah, well, I mean, they almost wiped out buffalo completely. I don't know what the elk got to, but I know, you know, as conservationists, we like to say that hunters are conservationists now. But so one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was 100 years ago. So I don't know what they were 100 years ago, what the numbers were, but, yeah, very low. Not only that, there's more whitetail deer today than when Columbus landed, although Columbus didn't really get here. When Columbus landed in the Bahamas, there's more whitetail deer here than now. And part of that is because of farming yeah

which is real weird like like a whitetail deer is a weird animal yeah like they're kind of a farm animal yeah a lot of a way yeah and it's almost like you know if you're doing it right as far as killing the older bucks you're almost farming you know you're not harvesting when they're young you're waiting till they're mature and so it's it's almost like you know you're letting that crop uh age essentially what is this jamie in 1910 the u.s forest service estimated there were only between 500 and 1000 elk in colorado holy shit and now there's a hundred and what 25 000 oh i'm sure i mean 150 000 i don't know. There's a fuckload. There's a lot more than that.

The number's a fuckload. There's 10 million. Okay. It says the elk population in North America stood at about 10 million animals before European settlers came and systematic wholesale hunting began. Wow. That's amazing. Colorado became famous for its trophy hunting, and European gentlemen traveled here to try their luck. Sir George Gore.

I heard that guy was a cunt. I'm just making that up. He's a trophy hunter. He's a trophy hunter. For whom Gore Pass near Kremling is named, came from Ireland to hunt in western Colorado. He shot elk and deer from the bed of a wagon. What a dick. That's road hunting.

He only took prime hides and large antlers and left the meat to rot. Oh, boy, what a bad person. That sentence right there, that's what people still think happens. I don't know anybody who ever does. That's illegal, first of all. That's poaching. That's a good thing to point out. It is illegal to not take the meat.

Not only is it illegal to not take the meat, you have to take the neck meat in Colorado. You have to cut out the neck meat. All edible meat. All the edible meat, yeah. And even between the ribs. I mean, there's a little – I don't know about if that's a law in Colorado. I know in Alaska, yeah, you kill a moose, you're even taking that meat in between the ribs. I mean, you're taking all edible meat there.

And so people say, well, are you one of those trophy hunters? Or you just don't take the head and leave it to rot? It's like, you can't do that. Why would you do that anyway? It's so stupid. I wouldn't do it, but it's illegal anyway. If you walk down the street, if you eat steak, and you walk down the street, and you saw, like, like for some reason someone had put

coolers of prime ribeyes just sitting there you'd be like what the fuck is this here for like what's good to look around is there anybody here i gotta take this what is this yeah you can't just leave this here right you left it here to rot so why would you do that when you're hunting right that's just you finding it right yeah probably you would not eat it now that i think about it you'd be like what is this a trap i get the point you're making the point i was making is if you go through all the effort to go hunt yeah and you do eat meat of course you're going to eat the meat not only that the meat you're eating is incredibly precious yeah like elk meat is incredibly it's so delicious. Well, here's what I know.

So when we go hunting, and I can speak for myself. I'm sure I can speak for you too. Speak for me. When you go hunting, you bring back all the meat you can. You eat all the meat you can of that animal. You like sharing it. The typical, I'll just say American, but wastes 40% of their food. This is what they buy.

You know how I'm done now in the garbage type thing? So hunters, I know I don't do that. If I kill a bull and I bring all that meat home, 40% of that is not going in the garbage. No, there's no chance. So it's because we have that connection with the animal. To me, it'd be, I don't know if I'm thinking about it, it'd be disrespectful,

but it's worth, there's so much value in it, I would never throw it in the garbage. You know what I mean? Sacrilege. But when you buy it at a store, whatever. I'm not saying people are putting 40% of prime rib in the garbage,

but just as a rule, we waste a lot of food. I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables. And if you eat meat to once in your life, kill an animal. I think everyone should do it. I really do. There was an article that I tweeted today about that. I forget the subject, the title of it rather but it was something along

the lines of it's not it's not healthy to hide from the fact that there's there's death involved in eating meat right something i did a terrible job of paraphrasing that you find what that title is it's an article okay we shouldn't hide the gory details of how meat reaches our plate right what are those are those chickens what are those oh yeah yeah and i think that's very very important and i think that like what i'm looking at right that's their life is fucking gross that's their life yeah it's fucked up because i eat chickens but i don't eat my chickens yeah like someone said do you eat those chickens? I'm like, no, those are like my pets. It's weird, right?

But I'll eat the shit out of some chicken. Yeah. But when you think of it like that, I mean, so when we're looking at this picture, I know people are listening to the podcast, can't see the picture. But I mean. We're looking at an enormous warehouse. I mean, enormous. It looks like several football fields long. And it's filled with chickens that are just enormous. It looks like several football fields long.

And it's filled with chickens that are just stuffed into these rows. On top of each other, right? Yeah. And that's their life until they get killed. And when you think of that, okay, would I rather do that or would I rather procure my own meat hunting? You know, everybody would say that's not right. And I believe hunting is a noble way of procuring meat yeah and um i think when you look at that but people don't see that they don't think about that when they order their you know chick chicken nuggets they're not thinking about that no you know just hungry just hungry it's just

too easy to get food i really think it's too easy to get food that's why we're such fatos that's a big problem yeah but it's also just it's food. That's why we're such fatos. That's a big problem. But it's also just it's also too easy psychologically because we just don't have any I think you should have a connection if you're eating a living thing. It just seems it just seems like you should understand what it is. Just for your

own mind, for your own just for a sense of balance. And 97% of Americans eat meat. And something like 65% of veg And 97% of Americans eat meat. Eat meat. And something like 65% of vegans, when they get drunk, eat meat. Really? Yeah, some crazy number.

It might be higher than that. I think I read it was like 84% of vegans. See, I'm just making up numbers at this point. That's fine. It doesn't matter. That might have been a tweet I read. Somebody might have just made that up. Who's going to audit us? So a vegan drunk is like, so meat's like an ex-girlfriend.

Yeah. Right? It's like an ex-girlfriend, yeah. You get drunk if you're lonely. You're texting your ex-girlfriend and you're eating a hot dog. Is that right? Yeah, same thing. Yeah, exactly the same thing.

Okay, I got it. It's a little over a third that confess to eating meat when they're drunk. Oh, then it's 100% because three-quarters of them are liars. Yeah. Surprising number of drunk vegetarians secretly eat meat. That is an awesome picture right there. I love that picture. The problem with this thing is this is a third of people that they asked.

And British vegetarians. Oh, British people. It's a totally different animal. They fucking hate hunters. They love saying cunt. Oh, did I see effing cunt in there, actually? Did you say that? Really?

I thought I did. I've been looking for it. Oh, no, fleshing out. I like how you said effing cunt, but you didn't say fucking cunt. No, that's a cuss word. Yeah, they do love to say cunt. But they're the most delusional. There's like South Americans are super delusional.

No hunting. Brazil, for some strange reason. I know. I get a lot of hate from Brazil. But they love me. You go to Brazil, they invented the chujascaria. Chujascarias are the shit, man. Did we go to one when we went to Brazil?

Is that where they threw the plates at all? Right? Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They threw the plates. Yeah, they fucking chucked plates like Frisbees and shattered them. Yeah. They know how to party in Brazil.

They do. And it's just meat on meat on meat. It was beautiful. You get a card. It's got green on one side and red on the other. A lot of people have been to these. Like Fogo do Chão is a great one that's here in LA and all over the country. But that's what they ate eat they're famous for meat when you're done with the meat you give them the red card yeah right yeah you flip that card over you're like you're done it's green on one side

red on the other yeah you tap out yeah we go to town nobody can fuck with ari shafir when it comes to that place nobody really no i've never seen oh look when me and ari go to eat generally speaking i'm more of a glutton than him i'll eat more than him yeah but not at that place really there's something about like all you can eat i think maybe it's some like because his dad was in the holocaust or something like that yeah like or he's just like because it's free because it's like you could eat he just won't stop i've never seen anything like it. I go, where are you putting all this fucking food? Everyone's done.

Joey Diaz is done. I'm done. Eddie Bravo's done. We're done. We're just sitting there like this. Ari's still sweating. I'm like, you're still on green? You're still on green?

He's like, I'm still on green. The guy will come over. Got lamb chops? Lamb chops, yes. Bring the lamb chops. I've never seen anything like it. That stuff is so good, though, especially in Brazil there. Yeah.

Oh, they know how to do it. And they have grass-fed meat over there, too. They're not fucking around with corn-fed and all that. They don't have the sick, fat cows that we have over here. But it is weird how you get a lot of hate from people over there. But it's because of the propaganda and the negative aspects of trophy hunting. Like when you see a guy standing there with a dead elephant or some shit like that, like, why the fuck would you kill an elephant?

Like that kind of stuff in people's mind. Or a giraffe. Why the fuck would you kill a giraffe? Like people have this idea that these people just go over there to kill things. And so this is what trophy hunting is. So they see you with an elk, like, oh, you piece of shit. Why don't you just go over there and shoot that thing? Like, no, this is my food for a year.

Like you're going to that goddamn steakhouse. You keep that thing on green. What do you think you're doing? You're killing. Yeah. Killing with your credit card. I know. Well, all we can do is try to educate and share the you know share the lifestyle it's like i think it's important

um to be leaders and and how we share that you know because i see things that i wish weren't shared sometimes i mean i've i've even made mistakes i'm not trying to say that i got i'm dialed in and i never make a mistake on what i post or whatever but uh i just think we need to be stewards of hunting. And if we do it right, we're not going to get everybody. We're not going to educate everybody because there's some that just won't listen. But we can make some inroads. I think we have. And I think it's important to relay experiences

because I think there's things to be learned from a lot of experiences. You know, like talking to you and talking to Courtney Dolwalter about just ultra marathons and endurance running. There's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes to do that. I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things. Like, fuck, man, before I met you, I never ran. I'm running all the time now. Should I run all the time? look at those things. Like, fuck, man, before I met you, I never ran. I'm running all the time now. Dude, I run all the time. I don't know.

You look slim. I mean, how much do you weigh? Like 196, 195. Oh, so you're about the same. No, I'm a little lighter. Oh, are you? I was up to like 204 when I was a fatso. Oh, okay.

That was the fattest I've ever been. I thought you looked slimmer. I'm a little, maybe a little slimmer. Maybe I'm like 195 or 194. And 194 is when i'm pretty lean one i've got a full six-pack at 194 when i hit about two when i get to 200 that's when i start i go okay we better start doing the fasting again yeah when i really get into my intermittent fasting i'll spend either 14 or 16 hours without eating in a day i only eat for like really 10

hours in a day. I eat about every 30 minutes. I'm actually starving. Are you starving right now? You're in a different thing though because I'm eating mostly fat and a lot of guys are on that carnivore diet now. When we had that Sean Baker in here, that doctor, the Bells,

Chris Bell and Mark Bell, those guys are both on the carnivore diet now. They don't eat anything but meat all day. Wow. Yeah, Mark says he's never felt better. So he's thin. He looks ripped. If you look at his Instagram page, he's fucking jacked.

Yeah. Shredded. He's also on steroids. That probably helps. But he looks good. Yeah. Well, it's, I don't know. One of my favorites.

Yeah, look at him. He just goes, Jesus Christ. Yeah, look at him. Look don't know. One of my favorites. Yeah, look at the picture. Jamie just goes, Jesus Christ. Yeah, look at him. Look at that picture. Oh, my God. All he's eating is meat. All he's eating is meat. Jacked. Yeah.

Jacked. Stud. Plus steroids. A little bit of steroids there. But whatever. Yeah. Who's that, Mark Bell? Yeah.

Yeah. He's a fucking animal. Yeah, I watched the. Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Is that what it Bell? Yeah. Yeah. He's a fucking animal. Yeah, I watched the... Bigger, Stronger, Faster? Is that what it was? Yeah. Yeah. His brother was on there, right?

Three brothers, and one of them died. Yeah. One of them died. They hit a drug problem. He was a pro wrestler. Yeah, yeah. That's the one I watched. Yeah, it was a...

Powerful documentary. It was. It was. It was pretty sad. I mean, he wanted, you know, his brother wanted to make it be something just like a lot of us you know and you know it's hard to say well he ran into the problem that i've seen many people run into those goddamn prescription pills they're so scary yeah they're one of the scariest things that are in modern society and it's something that's not talked about enough you only hear it talked about from family members of people that have lost people or close friends of people that have lost people.

But it's a giant problem in this country. We're losing thousands of people every day to pain pills. Yeah. Well, I put something up not long ago about suicide. And it was amazing how many people sent me messages i mean how many people are affected or just are dealing with negative thoughts you know of their own and little mini battles and it's just like that one post i don't know i think people just need to know that there's people out there that care you know but i don't know how with when they get in the that cycle of pills i don't really know i'm not a doctor i don't know how that works i don't know what they're

dealing with i just know that you know social media can be used it can be irritating sometimes but man it can be good especially for people like that just able to reach out and maybe you know get some support or encouragement or something yeah and it's well for someone that they admire like you that's gigantic you know if they can they can read something like that sometimes that's all people need just a little wind in their sail yeah just a little something just a little something i'm not saying i did anything i always say you know it was it was in the news there was a quarterback up at washington state that killed himself you know he's going to be the starting quarterback on the football team 21 years old It was in the news. There was a quarterback up at Washington State that killed himself.

He was going to be the starting quarterback on the football team, 21 years old, and he shot himself a few weeks ago. And I didn't want to say that, well, because I don't want to say that, well, it's because he's an athlete. That's why anybody cares. But it's anybody. It's any person who's 21 years old. I'm thinking, what a tragedy that is.

But that was in the news. So it happened. And so that's why I put it up. And for no, I can't do anything. It's not like I'm, I don't, I'm, I just wanted people to be aware and just to have that number to call in case there was a 21 year old feeling that exact same way. And that's, this is seemingly some kid who had everything. I mean, a college quarterback. And it's just like, it just breaks my heart to think that they would get to that. He would get to that point where, you know, killing himself was the answer. Well, it's even harder for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences. And they don't know that like a guy like you or i who's lived a long time and have

seen a lot of shit that you've gone through your ups and downs and when you hit it down you go well this sucks but i know it's gonna get better yeah just gotta figure out why it sucks address why it sucks uh apologize if you need to uh correct whatever the issue is that's making you feel like shit pull yourself out of it do a bunch of positive things. Next thing you know, you're going to be okay again. And sometimes when you're 21 years old, you think the world's over. I mean, I remember when my girlfriend dumped me when I was 18. I was so fucking bummed out.

I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine living without her. I was like, I can't believe that this is over. I can't believe. You're so devastated because you're fucking, you're a baby. Right. You're an 18 year old baby.

You don't know jack shit. But when you get older and you've had more life experiences and more things, you get more perspective and you kind of understand like what this feeling is, this bad feeling

and you just know, well, hey, I just got to get the fuck out of the house. I got to go hang out with my friends. I got to go do a bunch of positive things, go hit the gym gym take a yoga class do something fun

And then everything's gonna be okay. Yeah, I was hey you know Look life's not perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect life. It doesn't exist Yeah, you're gonna have ups you're gonna have downs, but when you're 21 years old It's very difficult to see that and also who knows what else is going on in his life whether it's pills or whether it's uh head trauma you know a lot of football players wind up killing themselves it's it's not a coincidence yeah it's directly related to head drama yeah i'm not i'm not sure i don't want to speculate i don't need that it's just i just you know i just it's horrible i i get a lot of i just just, you know, when you said, well, you go hang out with your friends at sometimes,

cause I've been in certain groups where even my friends aren't positive. You know what I mean? So you're like, that even makes it worse. They can. So, I mean, that's where I see the positives of social media.

And I wish I could respond to everybody who sends me a message and just say, Hey, you know, and it's, it's cliche, keep hammering or whatever. But I know I get inspiration from people online. And if I get a shout out, it feels good.

Sure. Does it mean anything? The rock wears your T-shirt. Does it mean? I don't know if it means. It doesn't mean anything. It does mean something. But it does to me, you know.

And so I just know what it's like to be in a small town and to not i'm not saying i didn't have any positive friends or whatever but i know what it'd feel like to not have anybody to really lean on you know yeah and so i try to think about maybe people like i was and uh man i just think we can i don't know together shit we can we can do a lot of positive things. Like I said, it breaks my heart to think of people living negative each day. I agree with you, and I think that's one of the things that social media can do that's positive, and also podcasts can do that's positive, is it exposes you. There's people that are listening to this conversation right now that they're taking comfort from it. They might be either stuck in a shitty job, or they might be alone, and they're taking comfort from it like they might be either stuck in

a shitty job or they might be alone and they're here with us they're here hanging out and they realize those people like us out there there's friendly positive people out there yeah even if you're alone at least you're not around negative twats right you know there's a lot of negative people around and it's unfortunate that they're negative. I wish you could fix them all. But sometimes life gives you these lessons in the form of disastrous lives that you witness. And you see these disastrous lives, and you just go, oh, my God, I've got to get the fuck away from this crazy asshole and live my life in a more positive, productive way because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems and all you do is hate and you hate on people that are successful

and you hate on people that are whatever, wealthy, good-looking, whatever. Pick the thing. Girls that are thin, whatever the thing is that you hate on. There's so many people out there that waste all of their energy doing that. And if you're around them, you can't't fix them it's so hard to fix people but what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and just completely degrade the quality of their life and just don't do that and recognize recognize that this is not the way to live and then go listen to a podcast with some positive people and say look at this guy.

This guy's out there eating healthy, doing good things. He lost 15 pounds. She went running and decided to start doing marathons, and he did this, and this guy's building a fucking house. You can find a lot of positive examples of people online today. That's one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to ultra running. I mean, because whether you like running or not, the people that do that are some great positive people.

I mean. They're savages. Oh, but they're also, you get so use of winning those many battles in a long run. And you, I mean, you have to, and you get strength from each other. So at the finish line or during the race is you can get a bond. Um, there's a saying, you know, he who sheds his

blood with me will be my brother. And it's like, it's not, that's probably derived from war. And I get that. And it's not like a war or anything like that, but it's going through a mini battle. And when you do that with somebody and you share that experience, you get that connection. And it's like, and it's why, even though I don't know Courtney that well, um, I know what she does and I really look up to her ability to just be a beast and that whole environment, the ultra running environment and community is empowering for me for sure. And that's why I love even just being around people like that. It just makes you better. Well, they're exceptional.

Yeah. Those are exceptional people. They have an exceptional mind. To be able to endure something like a 238-mile race through the Moab Desert, you've got to be something special. There's a little thing in the back of your head that says, why don't you just sit down? Why don't you just quit? Enough is enough.

We already ran five miles. That's enough, man. You ran a marathon. That is enough. You ran two marathons. You sit the fuck down. We just sit the fuck down and take a nap. But you have to be able to shut that off, and most people can't shut that off.

They just can't. It's tough. It's amazing. I mean, my brother was with me on that last one, and it's weird to share an experience like that with somebody because you can be similar, but in the course of something like three days like that, you're in low points at different times. You know what I mean?

Right, right. something like three days like that you're in low points at different times you know what i mean right and so it's really hard um it's really hard to win each of those battles because at one time when you might i don't know it's just it seems like that'd be easier but and i think in in some respects it is but it's man it does it's tough it was it's tough all the way around so when you're going through a three day 238 mile run does it it you it gets bad at certain times where you just feel like shit yeah and then if you keep going it gets better and then it gets bad again yeah and then it gets better oh yeah you're up and down up and down the whole time. But you know that if you keep going, even when you feel like dog shit, you'll eventually break through and start feeling okay again. I don't know.

There's no guarantee. There's no guarantee. No, there's no guarantee. You hope. Have you ever gone through a whole long race and felt like dog shit the entire time? Yeah. Which one of those? Well, like the 24-hour run, you know, because that's usually like my first tough one of the year.

It's in June, so I haven't really prepared for it enough. No, because I'm always after spring bear. And I haven't been training because I've been up in bear camp and doing whatever. So that's always one where I know I'm just pretty much going to be miserable the whole time there's going to be no light at the end of the tunnel other than when the 24 hours is up so that one i know i'm just going to have to grind it out but and that's that's where i'm like it's uh this is one day out of my life just do it i'm just gonna be miserable um you know on on moab that one started off and i felt terrible right out of the i mean i felt i was like we were god i want to think like 19 or maybe 15 miles in something like that an aid station i'm going this is not good 15 miles in yes what's crazy is you were running a marathon a day yeah yeah so why was

15 miles so bad um i don't know there's sometimes when you do you ever go on a run and your legs just feel heavy yeah and you just don't feel good yeah so that's what it was i just i was like i wanted to be fresh and i wanted to feel light on my feet and I wanted to get out there. And I was like, it's not a good sign when I didn't because, you know, we just essentially started the race and it was hot and I had run out of water already one time. And my legs felt heavy. And so it was, it wasn't looking good. And then Courtney was way out ahead. And, you know, they were saying, you know, I didn't really know who she was at that time.

So me and my brother Taylor, we were thinking, well, in the 70s would win the race. So I thought, well, I want to go out and aim for finishing in the 70s. When you say 70s, what do you mean? 70 hours? 70 hours yeah so i figured because what usually won uh bigfoot was high 60s and bigfoot's 205 205 and so this is you know close to 35 miles further so we just figured well probably 70s is going to get it done and so she went out and she had there's another couple other guys with her i think and they went out pretty hard and uh you know there's updates on where they were and i didn't

know i didn't know at that time she was the american record holder for the 100 um 20 or the 24 hour run she'd run 160 miles i think in 24 hours jesus christ and so i was like oh well they just went too fast you know because i'd done that before and like a big foot the year before and i thought well they'll come back you know so meaning it'll balance out we'd catch up or they'd come back and uh i think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit and then she never came back she just well one of them dropped out totally tried to keep up with her and he couldn't and he wound up dropping off a little bit and then she never came back. She just, well, one of them dropped out totally tried to keep up with her and he couldn't. And he wound up dropping out totally. She's a monster and she's eating nachos and candy.

That's what's crazy. Drinking beer. Well, all these people are on like all these diets and watching their macro nutrients. And no, but I did want to say that is cause, cause I listened to you talk to her about that. And excuse me, I've seen a talk to her about that. Excuse me.

I've seen a lot of comments about that. But what you've got to keep in mind is her training. So you can't say, well, I run 15 miles a week and I'm going to eat nachos and beer. Right. So she's running 120 miles a week probably. You can eat pretty much whatever you want. Right. Well, I get that.

But it's also like I was asking her about the nutritional content of her food. Like, are you really monitoring how much protein you get versus phytonutrients and minerals? No, no. Just gutting it out and running. She probably just needs calories. Yeah. It doesn't even matter how she gets them. She just needs calories to sustain herself.

But I would just think for just the cells of your body body you would need more nutrients i mean who knows she's obviously a fucking savage yeah but who knows if she really monitored her diet and ate super healthy she might be better maybe which is just terrifying maybe yeah she's she's amazing um she's so normal too yeah you hang out with her like when she did the podcast she's just fun and laughing like you would never imagine that she's just like elite ultra marathon runner i would think you'd have to be like super stoic and intense and no just and when you see her she's wearing like it looks like basketball shorts yeah like yeah exactly shorts it's not it's, you know, you see some of these track athletes and they got the tight little shorts on and the singlet.

And they're like, you know, she's just like with a kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts and then just crushing people. Crazy. Yeah, she's. But I love that, though. I love outliers. I love people that come along that don't make any sense. They're like, what the fuck? Like, she's so much better than everybody else.

She won that 238-mile race by 22 miles? Something like that, yeah. 22 miles ahead of the second-place winner. Yeah. And the guy who got second is a stud. Fucking animal. A stud. Guy's an animal

and she was 22 miles ahead of him I know imagine getting whooped not just whooped but whooped 22 miles ahead by someone who's eating

nachos and drinking beer and eating candy I just love that I love someone who doesn't make any sense who's just so much better and it's just like

wow we gotta fucking throw a monkey wrench to this whole idea the only thing i got on anybody is can they pack out an elk no they got on you got that on them yeah if that was the race you'd fuck them all up but what what i like about her also is i i flew home the other day i can't remember where i was from but i flew over like uh there's some in the cascades of oregon there's a middle sister north sister south sister and then bachelors where everybody goes and skis and then broken tops

right there so i filmed it and i'm like i tagged my brother taylor and i'm like hey can we knock off all five of these peaks in 24 hours and uh and it would be i mean it would be a test you know and she commented and said she wants to she'd join us wow she wants to come do it be i mean it would be a test you know and she commented and said she wants to she'd join us wow she wants to come do it so i mean i just love that i don't i don't even she's a she's amazing but that type of i mean i guess that kind of goes hand in hand with the the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want yeah you know like a lot of these elite athletes they they would be like have a schedule of races and my training and this and that. And I, you know, whatever.

I like that she's would just say, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah. It's not a race. It's just, we're just having fun. Yeah. Or just a test. It's an unofficial test. And for her to want to join in, that's probably what I love the most about her.

And are there established trails that you guys could run over all those peaks? We did the South Sister and the Middle Sister last year, and now it's getting off the South Sister towards the Middle Sister is sketchy. There's no trails, no. Oh, so you're just running through the woods. There's no trees. It's on the side there's no trees it's on the side of the mountain so it's like shale and oh even more sketchy yeah i'd rather run over trees yeah sort of now you would because you know if there's trees there there's solid ground there

right you know so with with the rocks up there you don't know what's gonna happen you gotta be stepping over shit if there's trees there you might run into a bunch of places where all the trees have fallen down. Generally, yeah. I mean, there can be windfall in there, but generally you can get on an animal trail and find your way through. But when it's just rocks, that's probably the most sketchy. Just because there's a thousand pound rock sitting there it could just just be balanced perfectly you might step on it that could be there's no guarantee that those rocks are staying there you know falls all the time so that's with rocks in that type of country super steep it's uh

it's part of it it's fascinating to me that that is the appeal of sheep hunting to a lot of people is that it's so incredibly dangerous that being up in those high peaks and stepping on shale and like on these, these crazy peaks where to the left is just a steep drop off to the right is a steep drop off. You have a very narrow place to navigate. Yeah, it's a, you know, sheep hunting. They say it's not that it's not the animal that's the most wary. It's just the country that makes it. So, I mean, they're expensive, the hunts, but it's just where they live is the draw. Yeah.

You know, I think with the bow, definitely a tough animal. With a rifle, mostly it's just kind of getting in, if you can get your body within range, you know, you can usually get one done. But it's just where they live. Yeah, when Ben O'Brien and Green Tree were hunting tar. Yeah. It was a similar thing in New Zealand. Yeah. They're in these crazy peaks and super dangerous sketchy territory and people

it's fascinating to me how people get addicted to incredibly difficult things they do it they say fuck i'm never doing this again god this is terrible and then they get back and a couple weeks later they're like shit i want to go back yeah it's uh god i don't God, I don't know what type of analogy to make. But, you know, when you've done, say, maybe ultras or marathons, it's really hard to get excited for a 5K. You know what I mean? When you do your key hammering 5K, how boring is that for you? To me, that's more about the people.

Right. Yeah, it's not for me. I'm not, you know, whatever whatever that stupid race is the reason why i got started running i couldn't believe how hard it was to do with zero running folks zero i ran zero and then i ran a 5k yeah and at the end of that i was like okay i gotta start running shit yeah and it feels great now right it does it does there's there's nothing nothing that feels better to me than being able to run i mean you know what's crazy is my endurance for kickboxing is way better yeah i mean way better way better like i could do a hard three minute round no problem yeah and it's just from

running these fucking hills it just changes your lung capacity yeah your lungs just expand and contract and you just used to getting more oxygen in there, I guess, huh? Yeah. Well, you've seen those trails that I'm running on, too. They're so steep. So much of it is just pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. It's like you're sprinting up these hills, and your body is just used to those bursts, you know?

And so now when I go crazy on the heavy bag, I just ba-ba-ba-boom, ba-ba-ba-ba-boom, and then the bell will go off, and I'm like, oh. Go good. It's crazy. the heavy bag. I was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then the bell will go off and I'm like, Oh, go good. It's crazy. It's like, it's amazing. It's,

and it does so much for your legs too. Oh yeah. You know, people always ask, you know what I do for legs. And it's like, I just run mountains. I mean,

and it's, you know, yeah, there was a famous kickboxer from Montreal. His name was Johnny Terrio. He was like the most scary kickboxer in the world in the PKA karate days. And, uh, all he did was, uh, he would run stairs. Like that was the big workout that he, and he ran, he wrote a book on training and, uh, you know, what it takes to be

a world champion. And one of the things that he's saying is you got to run stairs. He's like running stairs is like been the best thing for his kicking power, for his endurance. I remember thinking that, and he was talking about how it just put inches on his thighs and it radically increased his lung capacity and kicking power. Speaking of endurance, I don't know if we were, but I will, but Francis Ngannou, he got gassed out. He did.

Well, he tried to take stipe out in the first round he that was his his thought was that stipe is not going to be able to survive it didn't happen it's not good he's fucked yeah and he doesn't know how to wrestle that well he doesn't have a he doesn't have a long background in uh in martial arts at all and stipe was a very good college wrestler and obviously a bad motherfucker you know god he took some hard shots too he did you know that's the thing about stipe it's not just that he knows how to fight it's he's just fucking tough it's just there's a bunch of shit going on there it's experience it's just sheer toughness and grit and determination and he also also knows how to ride out bad moments.

Like Francis had never had a bad moment. Right. He didn't know what the fuck to do. I think most people, I know you didn't, but I think most people had kind of assumed, oh, Francis is going to win this fight. I thought it's very possible Francis could win the fight. I thought it was very possible that Francis could just nuke him in the first round.

He's just so scary. Yeah. Yeah,'s just so scary. Yeah. Yeah, it just takes one. No, I've never seen anyone in all of my history of watching MMA that's so terrifying with one punch. Yeah, yeah. And he's just punching, too. His kicks are, you know, they're okay. Yeah.

But he's not like, you know, he's not Edson Barbosa or someone who could put you to sleep with one kick. He's not kicking people. He's just moving towards you, throwing a few kicks maybe. But what he's trying to do is hit you with those giant fucking canned hams that he calls fists. And even when he was so gassed he could barely do anything, I was thinking, oh, just take still one big tired heavy arm could do it. Oh, yeah. 100%. That guy still has unbelievable potential.

If he could get it together. But what he needs to do, and this is critical, he needs to work on his ground game, needs to work on his wrestling, and he needs to be with a real top-flight MMA camp. Yeah. Who trains him now? He trains with the guy who found him.

I forget the gentleman's name. But the guy's done an amazing job of building his skills up in five years. And the thing is, Francis is so goddamn good that most people he spars with, most people he fights with are fucked. But he runs into the top of the food chain, a guy like Stipe. Stipe can avoid all the dangerous stuff, drag him into deep water, get him diminished,

diminish his endurance and his ability, and then overwhelm him, which is what Stipe did. But Francis can learn from that. He can learn from that. He can learn from that, and he can get better at all those areas that he had problems with tired Yeah, but he can get the endurance is something you can work on you can work on all those things

I just don't know how I'm sure he worked hard. I'm absolutely sure but I don't know how hard he was pushed Right, there's a difference between working hard and being pushed right like if you if he's trained with a guy like Cain Velasquez For instance Cain prime time Cain Velasquez if C's in his prime, Cain's taking him down left and right. He's going to try to have to get up all the time. He's doing rounds with Cain. You're going through hell. You're going through five minutes of hell. And when that bell goes off to end the five minutes of hell, you're just like, holy shit.

You watch the training camps with Daniel Cormier and Luke Rockhold and Cain Velasquez, some of the footage, there's a reason why those guys are so goddamn good because iron sharpens iron. That's right. Those guys are in there world champions going at it with each other on a daily basis. And because of that, that's what turned them into those fucking monsters that they are today. Francis is just a physical freak. Yeah. But if he was in that camp, holy shit.

Yeah, that'd be amazing. It'd be amazing to see what he could do. Yeah. I don't know. The problem is sparring with that guy. Yeah. Like if Francis spars the way they spar, because DC- Because they go hard, don't they?

They go a little hard. Isn't that kind of maybe too hard? That's the argument. Yeah. There's two arguments. There's one argument is that going through that is why they're so successful in world championship fights. That's a positive.

They know what the fire feels like. Yeah. The other thing is that they're also, they get injured a lot. Yeah. That camp gets injured a lot. But it's also, they're so fucking good. Look who they got habib never met off luke rockhold daniel cormier dain kane motherfucking velasquez it's not you can't argue

with that yeah one camp in san jose has some of the best fighters that have ever done the sport yeah then on top of that josh thompson you know they had josh koshek for a while and he was at the top of his game yeah some fucking killers have come from AKA. So you could look at it two ways. You could say, one, they're beating each other up too much, or two, that's what you got to do. That's what you got to do to be a world champion. Yeah, it's hard to say.

I was still, to this day, when Kane was in his prime, I never saw a heavyweight like that before, ever. The fucking endurance that guy had was off the charts. For a big guy. It's not like nothing. You would see guys just be overwhelmed. They couldn't imagine how the fuck he could do this. Like, where's he getting?

And the second round would come around. They'd have this look on their face, and Kane would just be like, like he just woke up. Like, he's not even started to really sweat yet. Yeah, yeah. And then he'd beat the shit out of him for the second round, beat the shit out of him for the third. They would just wilt under the pressure. Yeah, you see those fights where, I mean, not him, but I mean even now where it's just an onslaught.

And you're just like, man, you feel bad for, well, that, who was that the other night, Shevchenko? Did you see that fight? Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. I was like, can this fight get over because they should stop that fight a long time brutal that fight should have been stopped 15 or 20 times oh my god it was brutal yeah Mario Yamasaki said he gave her the opportunity to

be a warrior that's what he said that was his his take on it oh Oh, man. I mean. She was getting beat up. Not just beat up. Did you see the stats? The actual physical striking stats? The significant strikes. Did she land any? One. Okay. And Valentina.

She landed one. Like, I think it was some unbelievably overwhelming number. Like, one versus several hundred. several hundred in the significant strike department. Like, literally, she landed one pretty decent punch. Shevchenko, she looked like a guy up there with the big hard elbows, you know, coming down. I mean, just like, just power. Looked like a guy. Sexist much?

No. Someone's a fucking sexist. Did you notice that, Jamie? Jesus. She's world champion Muay Thai kickboxboxer she looks like a world champion woman you son of a bitch jeez i'm getting i'm getting read the riot act over here you got to be careful these days people turn on you i hate that you know i hate that that is that really irritates me oh i think i'm gonna yeah why is it wrong to say she looks like a guy i don't know she's a woman son of a bitch that's why well i just i was just talking

more about the power you know you just don't see women um you know coming look at the strikes 95 to 2 oh but you just don't see women like coming down hard like that. Have you before? Yeah, Kat Zingano. Kat Zingano can do that. It's just rare. Yeah, it's rare. When they're on that top position and just reigning part, it's just like, I just haven't seen it that often. No, there's not a lot of women that can throw down like that. And Valentina is one of the most well-rounded women in the sport she's she sub juliana pena off her back she you know she stands up and outstrikes holly

home she went toe-to-toe with uh amanda nunez she went toe-to-toe with some of the best kickboxers in the world she's a world champion muay thai I mean, she's just a fucking beast, man. She's an all-around just bad, badass fighter. There was an argument that she won that for the championship. Against Nunes? Yeah. Super close fight. I didn't think it was a bad decision, but I thought it was a very close fight. Yeah.

It's hard, you know, and it's hard for me calling fights because when i'm calling them i'm just looking at what's happening i'm trying to talk but i'm not scoring it right you know i don't score if you score it you got to keep your mouth shut you should have a piece of paper in front of you and you know eddie bravo used to do it uh for the ufc he used to score in between rounds and he had a great system where he would put a line down the center of a paper, and it would be one opponent on the left side and the other one on the right side, and then he would write down kicks, takedowns, submission attempts, and all that stuff,

and then defense. Those are little categories, and he would put check marks next to one, and then he would go over why he thought someone won and what kind of score he got. He had a very good system, and I think that's the only way to fairly judge a fight. Right, when you're calling it.

Unless it's like Valentina Shevchenko's fight, where you just go like, what the fuck? Yeah, that was... Like, I gave her like 10 to 2. I mean, it was so overwhelming. Man. I mean, a 10-8 round is a disgrace. It's like a 10-6. If you gave her just a 10-8, you'd be like, who the fuck are you?

Yeah. What kind of shit judge are you? Oh, my God. That was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a bad matchup because that girl was her – I believe that was her UFC debut. So to have a UFC debut against a woman who's fought for the title against a world-class striker.

I mean, literally one of the very best strikers on the planet Earth, male or female. Yeah. And just, it's not fair, you know? That was her first fight at 125, wasn't it? Valentina's, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Valentina fought Ioannou and Jacek in Muay Thai. Oh, that's what you do. And so she beat her. Hmm. I think they fought more than once. Hmm. But I believe Valentina beat her. I think they fought more than once. But I believe Valentina beat her. I hope I'm not wrong. Because I'm wrong a lot.

I'm excited for that Rose. Nama Yunus and Ioana Jacek rematch? Yeah. Well, you know, Rose trains with Valentina. That's her main sparring partner. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, man.

That's a good camp then, just having those two there to work off each other. Yeah, it's phenomenal for Rose and for Valentina. It's going to be tough for Rose to come now as the champion. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see if it

changes at all. Yeah, it will definitely be interesting. Coming into this fight was fascinating to me. Even though Rose won by first-round knockout, she's the underdog. Yeah, well, I put up that clip of when she was saying the Lord's Prayer there, when you were up there and you were talking about how it was terrifying or something like that.

I put up that little clip. That was crazy. She was so in the zone. From you guys, yeah, on fight night, terrifying or something like that i put up that little clip it was that was crazy oh yeah it's from you guys yeah before on fight night before the fight you guys were standing there and they were showing that yeah from the way in and oh my god that was classic yeah she was so in the zone that yeah joanna was talking to her yeah i'm going to you up i'm going to up your boogie face i'm the boogie woman she's talking all this crazy to her and rose is just going our father who are in heaven the kingdom come that will be done and she was

like in this zone yeah where you want to put her fist on her nose and she didn't flinch that was the only one that i said because they had something up about fighter of the year i think but that was i get fired up for all the fights. But that was the only fight that I was standing up. Like, I was because I was watching it at home. And I'm just like,

oh my God, you know. And because she was landing those, that hard punches. And it was, I don't know, it was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing.

Amazing. A lot of people thought she had a chance by submission because Eunice is a really good submission artist and she's really fast. She'll throw up flying arm bars and shit. She's wild. She takes crazy chances.

But for her to win by KO like that, I was like, holy shit. I know it. I know it. I was so pumped. When Daniel Cormier just starts yelling out, Thug Rose! Thug Rose! That was my moment. out thug rose yeah thug rose that was amazing it's amazing that was one of my favorite moments of doing commentary of just being next to him while he was just yelling that out because it

was just pure excitement and appreciation and joy you know he's just having a good time does he know her then too or do you know i mean they all know each other oh i mean i don't know how well he knows not training together no i don't believe so yeah they're not the same camp i mean maybe she's done some training at aka i don't i'm not aware but she's she's in colorado she's trevor whitman and uh her uh boyfriend pat barry who's a world-class kickboxer yeah he's a really good uh mma fighter as well when i remember him fighting in the ufc he had some wild ass fights he's a serious striker pat barry can fucking crack. I remember. I mean, I thought he was fighting. Let's see.

Who was that? And it's like I thought he was knocked out basically and then landed one big one. Or maybe it's the other way around. The other way around. Yeah. He was fighting Chet Congo. Yes. And he had Chet Congo completely out of it.

Yes. And he just went in for broke. And Chet Congo caught him with a crazy punch and KO'd him. Yeah, that was it. I remember that fight. That remember that fight that was nuts that was nuts but that's just how pat fights he's a wild man yeah he just fights wild yeah he's he was i remember he was like thick and good punch yeah he's a tank yeah yeah ruthless ruthless leg kicks he's got some of the best leg kicks i've ever seen the heavyweight division those are those are those leg you know that i just heard you talk about the other day but those low leg kicks are a new thing nowadays yeah well benson henderson started doing that

a long time ago he was one of the first guys to introduce it to mma but um he had some success with it but not like you're seeing today, you're seeing guys getting debilitated, like, really quickly. It must be a new, so it's a weak spot for, on humans, I guess. Well, there's a lot of things that Muay Thai fighters have known about forever that MMA fighters are just starting to figure out. The same is with kickboxing and karate. There's a lot of karate moves that MMA fighters are not good at, but karate guys are. And karate guys come into MMA like Stephen Tompkins. Thompson.

Thompson, Wonderboy. Yeah. Wonderboy, Tompkins. Tompkins. I keep saying Tompkins because of Sean Tompkins. But Wonderboy is doing things from a sideways karate stance that a lot of people just don't know how to handle like wonder boy has these crazy front leg sidekicks and front leg roundhouse kicks like have you ever watched his fight with uh johnny hendrix it's one of the best examples he hits

johnny hendrix in the gut with a sidekick and then johnny hendrix is still there so he roundhouse kicks him in the face with the same leg and you you see Johnny's like, what in the fuck? Because it's just something like, he didn't see that in training. You can't simulate that. You have to get a really good karate guy. And most really good karate guys, he's just going to be able to take them down. But, you know, Wonderboy's just got that style just dialed in and nailed. And he moves like a snake from the waist.

Like he moves backwards from the weight. Like he gets away from shit and then fires back at you. He looked good in that last fight. Yeah. Against Jorge Masvidal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a different style.

And so these techniques, like he's exceptionally good at those karate techniques. And a lot of people aren't. And so with Muay thai most of the time when guys were learning muay thai and bringing it into mma they were doing a few things they were throwing the leg kicks they were throwing the knees to the body the elbows normal normal muay thai techniques yeah but they were missing some of the subtleties so some of the better muay thai fighters started training with some of the better MMA fighters. And then slowly but surely, those techniques started leaking in. I see.

And then the big one now is that low leg kick. Yeah. That low leg kick is a motherfucker, man. It just takes out. You can't condition your lower leg. That's what I'm saying. It feels like it's a weak. I mean, because I know Michael Chandler, he got caught with that.

And that's how he lost the belt. Yeah, it killed the nerves in his leg. Yeah, and that's how he lost the belt. Yeah, killed the nerves in his leg. Yeah, and it looked like his leg was broke. I mean, his ankle was flopping all around. You could swear that that leg was broke. And it must have just been those low leg kicks down there and just dead in the nerve. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing how many fighters, like Gilbert Melendez, when he fought Jeremy Stevens.

Jeremy Stevens cracked him real early in the first round with that low leg kick. And you see it immediately swelling up. And then Gilbert's just falling down on it. He just can't stand up on it. It's crazy. Douglas Lima and Rory McDonald. Rory McDonald in Bellator, right into the same thing. Right into the lower leg.

He had a giant hematoma it was fucking huge and scrolling yeah yeah it's a devastating technique yeah well it's interesting it's i just love that i love when new elements get brought into this very complex sport yeah i mean and that's like yeah that that's just been a new one for sure. But this Saturday, are you going to be at the Keep Hammering Run? This Saturday is the Keep Hammering Run? Yeah. Where? Salt Lake.

I didn't know there was one. No. No, I'm going to be here. No, remember that you went to that show. Yeah, I did go to that show. I went to that show by accident. The Western Honey Expo. I was in town skiing, which I fucking hate.

Yeah. I don't hate skiing, but I'm not a fan. It's just boring. You just dislike it a lot. I just don't get it. Every time I do it, I'm like, maybe this time I'm going to get it. This is going to be the day where I'm going to be in bliss. I'm going to slide down that mountain.

People are like, oh, it's because you're not good at it. I did it for five years. I got pretty good at it. I didn't get good at it like i couldn't enter a skiing competition but i don't fall down anymore i know how to stop i know how to ski yeah i just don't get it so i was there and then i was like what there's a hunting expo yeah and i fucking snuck away for a day i had a great time with you it's like this is so much better yeah so that's this weekend that show oh and you have a keep hammering run in Utah? Yeah, I'm doing it.

Where's it at? If it's the same place as last year, it's just right. I mean, start at the Capitol there in Salt Lake. Capitol building, and then you run 5K from there. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's Saturday morning. Should be fun. I'm a big fan of Salt Lake.

I love that town. Me too. It's fucking great. Yeah, me too. Nice people, man. Oh, I know. They're so nice. The best. I mean, I know it's weird. There's a lot fan of Salt Lake. I love that town. Me too. It's fucking great. Yeah, me too. Nice people, man. Oh, I know. They're so nice. The best.

I mean, I know it's weird. There's a lot of Mormons there. I know people get weirded out by Mormons. They're the nicest people. They're so nice. Yeah. Like, I don't care what wacky shit you believe, as long as you're nice. That's it.

Yeah, just be nice. That's it. Yeah. So that's, I'm excited. It's going to be i think we we're hoping to have god i want to think we had a few hundred last year so yeah nice it's gonna be and then uh we'll do that saturday and then we'll be back in september elk hunting do you remember that remember elk hunting in utah i do we We only got to 470,000 views.

We're going to do a podcast when we get to 500,000. What's it at right now, Jamie? Go to the UA Hunt YouTube page. We might have to cancel this. Son of a bitch. Yeah, we were hoping to do a podcast when it hit 500,000, but it petered out. It did. Petered out at about 471,270.

So we got 1,000 today. so we just need a few more days we're good by the end of the month close yeah close enough yeah we're getting close yeah we'll hit it by the end of the month hey and then then also uh this weekend um the secretary of the interior zinke on friday is going to announce a a big, I think it's a big win for conservationists. And we're going to protect the winter migration routes for deer and elk from development. So that's been a big thing that, you know, like I told them when I met with them back in Vegas, I don't know when it was, a couple weeks ago, that it feels like we've taken some hits as sportsmen as far as the national monuments being shrunk.

You can argue that both ways. Drilling on the coast, a lot of people don't like the prospects of that. So I'm like, man, we could use a win and brought up the winter migration routes and uh protecting those from from any development just so those animals can get down and get to the winter range um when food's hard to come by and so that's that's going to be announced on friday that he's going to make that happen that's awesome and now you have a position there as well like what is your official position? I'm on the International Wildlife Conservation Council, which doesn't have anything to do with North America.

But I'm just kind of using that as an excuse to talk about North America. It doesn't have anything to do with North America? No. What does it have to do with? Well, that's about like the trophy export uh ban from africa oh so international hunting basically and so it it's uh weighing in on that because it's like if you go to australia and you shoot some animals you can't bring the meat back um well yeah but that's is that different yeah it's different well that that doesn't have anything to do with what's going on right now it's africa and like with elephants coming back so oh when you can't bring your trophy back yeah who's going to want to go shoot not just elephants because

elephants are a whole different category but who's going to go want to shoot a gazelle well if you if you can't bring it back eland yeah yeah right i don't know if those are regulated but it's mostly elephants and you know and lions and lions didn't they they reversed it and then trump said fuck that like trump doesn't like it which is fascinating because his sons yeah are big hunters right right he called it a horror show he did and that's what got my attention is because he said that he doesn't see how conservation helps elephants which okay that's one thing but then he said or any other animals and i'm like wait a second okay you can't we can't say conservation hunting as a conservation tool doesn't help any other animals because we've proven here in north america it's that it's the model that works so I didn't like how he worded that and lumped that all in together.

And I'm like, was that just a poorly worded tweet? What's going on here? So then he said he was going to look at that ban regarding elephants. Because if there's no value on the animals, we know what happens. And if there is no hunting, it's pretty much the death sentence of the animal well we probably have to explain that to a lot of people that don't know what we're talking about but africa there's a lot of animals in africa that were on the verge of extinction just a few decades ago and what they did was it's a very controversial thing especially to people that don't hunt but

what they did was they created a lot of these game preserves where they had these animals and they had a financial interest in keeping these animals alive because people paid a lot of money to come over there and hunt them. So now these animals that were on the verge of extinction just a couple of decades ago are thriving in record numbers, but they get hunted. So for people that are concerned about the welfare of these animals and they're wildlife lovers, they're in a weird predicament because it's hunting that's keeping these animals alive. And it seems like a contradiction, like how could hunting be conservation? But even in this country, 11% taxes on bullets, on hunting equipment, on all the different things that people buy.

And this was a self-imposed tax that sportsmen put on the purchase of these goods so that it would go towards wildlife. And billions of dollars, billions of dollars have gone to preserving wetlands, preserving wildlife habitat, reestablishing populations of animals in all these different areas where they're diminished. It's like the amount of money that has gone towards conservation from hunters versus from PETA or the Humane Society or any other welfare group, it's not even remotely comparable. Hunters are making the difference, and we put our money where our mouth

is you know we say we care about it we we pay for it we we put money there to help conservation and pay for the biologists and pay for the studies and pay for habitat enhancement and so that's that essentially is the same thing that needs to happen in africa is but it's it's weird to say well how can the united states regulate what happens in Africa? Because we can't really. But we can say, we're not going to allow the trophies to come home. So that pretty much stops the hunting in Africa. So, yeah, we're not saying you can or can't hunt. You can still go do it.

You just can't bring them home, which essentially stops the hunting. Without hunting, those animals don't have value. And no matter how you want to slice it or phrase it or whatever you want, if they don't have value no and no matter how you want to slice it or phrase it or whatever you want if they don't have value they're not going to it's going to be the detriment of the animal of the species um you know kenya they stopped hunting in 1973 and 70 percent of the animals are gone with no hunting yeah it's very confusing it's it seems contradictory it does, it's very confusing. It's, it seems contradictory. It does. And it's like, you know, I talked to with, you know, Zinke about this also.

And so that's what this, this council is about to try to make a good decision on how best to regulate the trophies coming home. And maybe we can help promote hunting and, and how to do it right and what it it means um as a council so that's i'm involved in that um i used that opportunity to talk to him about other things too but uh so i don't know i don't know where it's all gonna gonna lead it's it's a fascinating subject because elephants are endangered in some parts of africa but africa is an enormous place. And in other parts of Africa, they have a problem with elephants. Yeah. So going to those places and shooting elephants to most people is a horrific offense.

Yeah. But the problem is I don't see the amount of money that someone has to pay to go and shoot an elephant. It's a crazy amount of money. $75,000. That's a lot of fucking money. How many people are spending $75,000 to go look at them or help them? They're not going to. They're not going to.

No. And when you say, well, that money could come from photo safaris. No. And also with the photos. No one's going to pay $75,000 to take a picture. To take a picture. And for a photo safari, where they have them set up is that they go on pretty much the same route.

So the habitat just gets hammered. I mean, you know what a national monument or a national park here, the most popular places, you know what those look like. It's a freaking dump. So when you have those photo safaris that go on the same track, basically you're hammering the habitat. You're not getting back to the back reaches where the poachers are killing the animals. You know, that's still happening back there. are killing the animals you know that's still happening back there and then to get a pride of lion in to where you can take pictures of it they're still going out and shooting zebras and and impala and different things buffalo throwing them out there so the so the lions are there eating so there's still animals dying but there's just the animals aren't benefiting from it so when

you think of like in the bush of africa if if a farmer there has a crop and there's elephants getting in there, thrashing his crop, the elephant has no value to him. What has value is the crop. And if the elephant's in there trampling it, he just wants the elephant dead. He wants it gone. So he's going to shoot it. It's going to lay there. It's not going to benefit anybody. But his crop grows.

And that's what happens It's just very hard for people to look at it that way because they look at it like no I don't want an elephant to die and no I don't want a lion to die No, no, I don't want a zebra to die You know, I don't want a giraffe to die and what you can go ahead and shoot that other thing that warthog that ugly thing Yeah, nobody gives a fuck about warthogs now you can shoot warthogs and smile and take a picture. Yeah. People are racist.

They're racist against certain animals. Yeah. That's a fact. Oh, for sure. For sure. That's a fact. Is it racism? Racism.

Okay. Race of speciesism. Are you a speciesist? I am. I sent you a video about that. I'm a speciesist. That's a fact. I like people way more than I like goldfish.

And with regard to lions, you know, so if lions are coming in and killing the goats or whatever, say in Tanzania, that they're raising, they're just going to put, they'll be a dead goat. They'll put poison in it. The pride will come in, eat it. They'll go die. Then no more goats are getting killed. All those lions are dead. Well, that was one of the things about Zimbabwe, right? Was it Zimbabwe where that guy killed that lion, the Cecil?

Oh, I think so, yeah. That place, they had to kill a bunch of lions because people stopped lion hunting there. Yeah. And so because they stopped lion hunting there, they had this excess of lions, and they were destroying the undulate population, so they had to go in and just slaughter these lions. And they were destroying the undulate population, so they had to go in and just slaughter these lions. So the $50,000 per lion that they would have made that would have gone towards all sorts of different things, protection of the habitat, the different conservation officers that work in that area,

instead, there's no money, and then they actually have to hire someone to go and do that job. And this is the argument about British Columbia as well, that this is exactly what's going to happen up there. The argument that you're getting from the people that are in the field that are out there every day is that what's going to have to happen is you're going to have a bunch of problem bears. They're going to have to hire people to go after these problem bears. And it's incredibly expensive and very, very dangerous. Yeah. And the bears are still going to die. Yeah Yeah. And bears are still going to die. Yeah.

So that's still going to happen. Some of them. Some of them are still going to die. Yeah. But animals are going to die. You know, I mean, do you get mad when a bear kills an antelope or when a bear kills a giraffe? Right. Well, they don't really. They're not over there.

But if they were over here, you know, if a bear kills a moose, are you upset? Are you only upset when a person kills a moose? Yeah. Right. And, you know, in Africa,rica too so those animals are dying um and when it's hunters that are doing it numbers are very controlled the harvest is very controlled you can take x amount of animals out and this money will go towards you know this enhancement of a waterhole this uh paying for um the anti poaching unit which when i was over there

was a thousand dollars a day to pay for guys to come into it to control keep the poachers out of there without that money um none of that's happening so there instead of having a very regulated harvest number the poachers will kill however many yeah you know and let's be honest about it the vast majority of the money is going towards whatever lodge or the owners of that area. But they're also hiring people. They are hiring people, but they have a financial incentive to keep these animals alive. It's very problematic for a lot of people. They don't like to hear it.

And I've read this article, this ridiculous article that said that that's not true, that trophy hunting is not what sustains these animals, and you can get just as much from a safari like that's not true what you're saying is not true that cnn thing handled it pretty well did you watch that trophy what did you think about that um no i i thought a hunter said some stupid yeah i didn't god you know i mean we talked about this earlier in the podcast you know when people say oh you just want to go kill stuff and this and that i didn't really like when whoever the hunter was i don't know it's probably a nice guy but he shot a crocodile and he says yeah mother effer i'm like what is going on there i would i've never done anything like that and that that seemed that isn't like the honorable hunter that I know.

You know, so that seemed a little weird. I don't like crocodiles. I might say, yeah, motherfucker, if I shot a crocodile. Crocodiles scare the shit out of me. They are the one thing that scares me more than pretty much any animal on the planet. Yeah, I know. I still feel a lot of respect for the animal. I'm joking around mostly.

No, I know. I know, but it just seemed like a weird reaction to me to me well especially knowing that the world's going to see that reaction yeah i mean if he was just by himself and he said that and that was an honest reaction and he still had respect for the animal and it was just the fact that he pulled it off yeah it's unfortunate it's unfortunate as a it's unfortunate to broadcast that for the world to see. Yeah. I thought it could have been a lot worse with regard to how hunters were portrayed. I mean, even the guy who killed the lion, he did get emotional.

He showed some reverence there, which I liked. It could have been worse. They talked about how its animals are, I guess, a commodity in some respects with the rhinos. You know, I think that guy had 1,500 rhinos, didn't he, on his property? Yeah. And, you know, so what's better, 1,500 rhinos for him to have and raise and cut off the horns or zero? Yeah. You know, it's better to have 1,500, right?

Yeah. Well, it's definitely better for the population of rhinos as a whole because people don't like the idea of raising something as a commodity raising wildlife as a commodity i understand did you ever see the louis theroux documentary the about wildlife in africa about those i forget what it was called but you can watch it on youtube that to me was a better piece and one of the most interesting things because louis is uh he's a very smart guy but he's also a very nice guy yeah he just kept asking questions and pestering people and getting to the heart of it but he also showed like these fenced in lions and they're throwing a dead cow over the top of the fence and the lions

are tearing it apart it's crazy i didn't see it but it's it's weird because the these lions they're never wild like they're feeding them and then people go over there and hunt them as if it's like a wild lion yeah it's it's super weird i couldn't hunt in a fence um i couldn't hunt a lion in a fence um so i don't know yeah it it's not what we call over here in america fair chase right there's a a term that term fair chase is synonymous with ethical hunters in america yeah and this is something that most people aren't aware of that there's a code and the code the code varies slightly like in some places you can use electronic communication, meaning you can use walkie-talkies to locate an animal. Like I believe you can do that in Arizona. You definitely can do that in Nevada.

You can't do that in Montana. There's different things of what people decide is fair chase or ethical, and it depends. Like Colorado, they won't even let you use a light on your site, on your bow site. You can't have any electronics attached to your site for whatever reason. They just started allowing lighted NOCs. Well, that was just in Oregon, too. They've been outlawed in Oregon. I mean, I haven't used them in Oregon, but I think they are legal now.

But, yeah, I mean, as far as so you're trying to define what is fair chase. And so, yeah, there's a lot of these electronics, this or for that but what we say is fair chase is not in a high fence well it's definitely not feeding a lion in a cage and then opening up the door right when the hunter pulls up yeah that is what they do oh yeah that is what they do yeah it's one of the reasons why a lot of these lions that get shot they don't know what the fuck is going on. They're bedded somewhere. They just lay down. Yeah. Because they're outside in this new environment.

Like, where am I? They don't even know what it is. Because they've been living in this very small environment. And they let them out. And they let them out right when the hunter gets there. That's tougher to justify. It's very tough to justify. I feel like it's not justifiable.

You're not hunting anymore you're just murdering an animal yeah so it's not murder murder is a person right now so i'm gonna i'm gonna not address that part and just address hunting in general and hunting in general is what's necessary for the the future of animals i mean you, until it gets down to a number where maybe the white or black or whatever rhino that is, that's only down to a handful, obviously you're not going to hunt those. But by and large, hunting is what keeps these animals,

the population, viable. Well, and then there was also the case of Corey Knowles, who went over there. Yeah, Knowlton. Knowlton. How do you say it? Corey Knowlton. Knowlton. Knowlton. How do you say it? Corey Knowlton. Knowlton?

Yep. Is that how you say his name? Yep. Sorry, Corey. Corey Knowlton. We got it. Why did I say Knowles? Because I have too many names in my head.

But anyway, when Corey went over there, and Corey's done the podcast as well. Too much pot smoking. You think so? No. But that's what people like to say, right? Yeah. People like to say a lot of stupid shit. Let's have a pop quiz, motherfucker.

See who knows more shit. But when Corey went over there, he spent a quarter of a million dollars to shoot an endangered rhino. I think it was $350,000, wasn't it? Wasn't that much? I mean, it was a lot. A lot of money. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he said that it was undervalued.

And he said the reason why the bidding didn't get higher was because there was so much pressure on people to do it but he explained uh very eloquently and very clearly on cnn and when he did my podcast about all the death threats that he got he said listen yeah that rhino was killing other rhinos right that is why not breeding not breeding it was it was an old rhino that was past its breeding prime. It wasn't breeding anymore. And it was killing the young rhinos. It had killed a female that it tried to mate with. And it had killed another male.

And this is an endangered animal. And this thing was killing other animals. So they had decided, look, we have to take this out of the population. So what is the best way to do it to get a tremendous amount of money that can go for anti-poaching efforts and all these different things and so he explained it like it's like this is this is an animal that they were going to kill they had to kill it because it was threatening this endangered population of only like a couple of thousand rhinos right right yeah it. It's a really interesting situation.

And people would like it if that wasn't the case. They would like it if, no, the money is actually coming from animal welfare groups and from wildlife lovers who just want to see these animals alive. The difference is it's very rare that someone is going to give you $350,000 to keep a rhino alive. And so that's a magnified example, but that's pretty much what's happening with all the animals. I mean, you're not getting that much money, but you're getting money in exchange for their life, basically, and it's for the betterment of the herd. Yeah. I mean, that's hunting.

Yeah. Right? right? I mean, that's, that's like, like I said, very magnified because you're getting a huge amount of money and there's only a few animals, but you can, it's easy to see, hey, killing this one is going to save animals. So that's really easy to see, but that's pretty much what happens with all animals. I mean, you're balancing that herd. The other thing is they ate that rhino and a lot of people ate that rhino. I mean, they gave that meat away to villages and people don't know you, you not only can you eat rhinos, apparently they taste good. Same thing with elephant. Elephant apparently tastes delicious.

Well, do you remember in the trophy movie, they could care less what elephant that guy killed, but they didn't like that it was small. Right. Do you remember that? Because they wanted more meat. They don't care about – they care about eating. Yeah. That's it. So, I mean, as far as the locals go, I mean, so we – here in America, it feels like, you know, we take up these causes.

And it's like, you know, we're the social justice warriors for the world. It's like we ought to probably check in with the people that actually live there, right? Yeah. They want you to kill the lions. Jesus Christ. There was an article in the New York Times shortly after the cease of the lion controversy. It said in Zimbabwe, we did not cry for lions. Right.

I know I read that one. Yeah. No, and that's real life. That's real life. So, yeah, over here, everything lives, everybody's friends. Simba is my friend. Yeah. And no one's saying that lions need to die.

No. I mean, look, I'm not in favor of those high fence things and the way they keep those lions alive. And you would never hunt a lion. You've told me before you wouldn't hunt one. No. Right? No desire. But you understand hunting and how it works and what we need.

Yeah. It's just a weird facet of human nature that we've sort of boxed ourselves into this situation with Africa. But Africa, I think, is like you could look to that example and see how this is a very complex issue. Especially, let's take all what Steve Rinella calls the charismatic megafauna out of the equation, like giraffes, which everybody loves. I had a whole bit about giraffes in one of my comedy specials that they're the one animal that you can't say

is not better off in the zoo. Yeah. Because like other animals, they look like captive they look like they're contained yeah but giraffes are so happy baby's freedom like i used to take my kids to the zoo when my daughter was i don't even think she was two she's holding out a piece of lettuce and a fucking giraffe comes out huge Huge. Giant tongue wraps around the lettuce and takes it from her. She's giggling and laughing. Yeah.

But they're so confident in giraffe behavior that they let babies feed them. Yeah, that's impressive. There's not another animal like that in the zoo. No. No. Because animals are, you know, wild animals. You don't know what they're going to do. But what I said was that a giraffe wakes up every day in the zoo and goes,

another day with no lions. That's true. And just sort of wanders around the zoo and goes, another day with no lions. That's true. And just sort of wanders around the zoo. They look like they're having a blast. Yeah. They have not a care in the world. They don't mind at all being in that fence. As long as you keep chucking that hay over the side,

they're good to go. Keep it coming. Keep that hay coming, baby. Yeah, good to go. But we have connections with certain animals. Elephants are a big one. You know, lions are a big one. Giraffes, for whatever reason, are a big one.

Even zebras. People are like, why are you shooting a zebra? It's too much like a horse. Like, we have these. But if it's like an antelope that you eat, like, oh, that kind of makes sense. Yeah. Like, we have these kind of make sense animals. And again, warthogs, nobody gives a fuck about war warthogs there's no one out there trying to save the

warthog people don't even know how many there are they don't care they care less no this is not like people worried about lions and no one is out there wondering how many warthogs are left in africa i see it all the time it's like people will comment not hunters obviously but they'll be like on my page and say well oh i don't have a problem if you kill deer and elk but there's no reason to kill a bear right what are you talking about have you ever had bear sausage yeah well if you've had bear saw and you you probably have them but if you if it's if you have it's goddamn good and why is it any different it's the same why is it any different yeah it's not yeah so it's just what they're it's just what they're ingrained to feel about an animal i think well they they seem too dog-like i think so yeah

that's a thing that's the thing with people bears just seem dog-like oh they're portrayed as being nice and people have them for pets too like there's a lot of people that have bears pets like a lot of russian a lot of people that have bears pets. A lot of people? Yeah, man, on Instagram. Do you have one, Jamie? You can find them. There's this one motherfucker. It's a giant grizzly bear that he cuddles with.

People keep sending me videos of this guy. I'm like, one day. I know. One day this video is going to get dark. God. Yeah, look at this guy. He's got a sweet bear. He's just chilling with this bear.

This bear is my friend. And we hang out. I take him places and he likes my girlfriend. And I rub his back. But one day he ate my baby. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah, it looks like a cool bear.

It's a dope bear. Look, they're fucking awesome animals, man. Yeah. I love all of them. Yeah. But here's the deal if you had a thousand of those living in your neighborhood you'd have to thin the herd yeah you just have to and the the reality of all this stuff is super complex and i just do not think

you get an understanding of it from you know in front of your laptop in vancouver you just you don't know for sure so i what I like is, you know, with regard to like this International Wildlife Council or even it just seems like with this administration and people say good or bad or mostly bad, it feels like

I don't know who you're listening to. And that's one thing that I would read CNN, I'd listen to, it's like the same topic, two totally different slants. So it's like, what the hell? Who do you believe? So that's one thing that I would read CNN. I listen to, it's like the same topic, two totally different slants. So it's like, what the hell? Who do you believe? So that's why I was happy to be involved so I can actually hear. But still, it's still hard.

It's still hard to listen and think, okay, so what's going on? whole thing is like, I kind of look at it as if I got somebody online giving me advice or you give me advice, I'll be like, well, Joe knows me. I'm going to listen to him. That's why I kind of wanted to be involved in these councils and in this part of this decision making, because they can listen to all this people talking shit all day. But if I'm there and can actually weigh in, well, then they know me. And it should weigh a little more. They know your experience in this. And so that's why I want to be involved. I'm not saying I'm going to agree and it's going to be exactly what I want every time.

But I don't know how else to do it. I don't know how else to do it. And I know that with my voice, because, you know, they have trust in me about whatever, even if they agree or don't agree, I'll at least get to share my thoughts.

And so that's what I did, you know, like when I talked with Zinky the other day, what is he like? He's an avid hunter, right? Yeah. That's what,

you know, and I've read all these, man, you would think he was the worst, just like Trump. You'd think they were Satan to some people. But to me, I read the Outside magazine article on him. It sounded terrible. And I was like, God, that's not good.

I read a few other things about him. But to me, personally, it seemed, would listen um seemed like somebody who if we were sitting there talking about something and we came to a decision and it made sense that's what he seemed like like a normal you know a well thought out person well i think he's probably got a tremendous amount of pressure on him from a bunch of different angles oh for sure they're all interested in making money for sure and they think of someone that is pro-wildlife as being a roadblock to the money yeah like oh this fucking greenhouse loving hippie yeah tree hugging asshole he what what he told me is he's concerned he wants to increase hunting opportunities and you know um public land opportunities you know so that's and that's kind of what i want to hear so i mean maybe what would

have who you're talking to i understand that but it sounds it sounds good i mean it gave me a better feeling talking to him than reading the other articles, the articles about him. Right. So and then his staff, great people. Like I said, just like we'd sit here and talk and it makes sense. And even talking with Donald Trump Jr., I'd be like, God, I wish we could just do this right now. Because it's like you can actually come to a consensus, make a decision, talk it through and be like, that's how it should be. And it feels like it's different. Politics are different

because everybody, like you said, there's pressure from different places. But when I think of a politician, I think special interest groups and these other people that are influencing them and you're wondering why is this for their own benefit and so you don't really know with this it doesn't feel like that it feels like it's trying to make the right decision you know without being influenced i know there's always gonna be influence but without like the special interest type influence and i don't know you know i think the more people like you that are involved in this and the more people like you have a say or at least are they come to you for advice, you're going to get at least a more balanced perspective of what the potential hazards are, what people were excited about, about him as a president, would be that the economy would have an upswing. And it did.

But lately, the last couple of days, there's been a massive decline in the stock market. Yeah, it's been. Yesterday, I think, was the biggest loss ever. I don't understand the stock market. I really don't get it. A bunch of assholes throwing their hands in the air. There's computers that are doing a lot of the calculations. I don't know what's going on it's too fucking confusing i feel like if i just went

down that rabbit hole i'd be stuck studying the stock market for weeks upon weeks and i just don't have that kind of time dude i gotta play techno hunt with cam hands well and i like i like reading stuff like you know stock marks at an all-time high. Everybody's making money. That's all I heard. Yes, I heard that. Nothing but that. Like jobs, like more jobs than ever. You know, unemployment's at an all-time low. I'm like, well, you know, when you have a guy who is just so hell-bent on making money in business, it's good for business.

Yeah. Right? So, like, that would be the benefit of having a guy like that. But then, apparently, there's some downsides to that shit, and the downsides are inflation and panic, and then once the stock market starts going south and people start freaking out, then it really goes south. Yeah.

And now it's really gone south. Well, last couple days. I mean, it's- That's all I live in the moment, Cam Haines. I'm not here for your fucking rosy view of the future. Oh, sorry. I don't even understand the stock market. I don't understand it.

Yeah. I like hearing good news. That's what I like hearing. Yeah. I get comfort in hearing people that I'm not wondering about what their intentions are. So that's why I enjoy the discussions with those guys. Yeah. what their intentions are. So that's why I enjoyed the discussions with those guys. And, you know, if I can, if, you know, I just said, you know, it feels like as sportsmen, we took a couple of hits,

we could use something on the positive side. And I think we're getting that on Friday. So that's. So on Friday, are they going to make new rules in terms of what you can bring back and what you can't bring back? No, no, no. The idea behind it?

No, that's not about the international. This is about the, the, the corridors. Yeah. Right. Right. So protection, back no no no that's not about the international this is about the the corridors yeah right right so protection protecting migration routes for the big game animals here that's phenomenal that's very very important yeah especially for animals like mule deer whose populations aren't really that good right now yeah elk elk still need to be able to get out of the high country out from you know where they breed down when the wet when the weather hits to get down to where the feed is and if there's a bunch of gas rigs in there i'm not gonna be able to do it do you ever thought do you follow gritty bowman on instagram you do right yeah brian was taking all these uh

videos of elk in evergreen oh i know yeah wander right through the town and they're huge. These are giant bulls that are just hanging out near cars. I know. They have zero fear of people. I know. And they know that once they're in the town, that's like they're on home base. They're safe. It's weird how they know that.

Yeah. You know? I know. I did see that. There's some nice animals in there. Crazy. Yeah. It's beautiful.

People pulled over just checking them out and they're screaming and rutting. It's just weird that they just migrate right through the town. Yeah. They probably figured out a long time ago, hey, just keep away from the cars, and nobody fucks with you. We're good to go. But, you know, they have weird rules in Evergreen where you can kind of hunt in your backyard. Oh, really? Yeah.

I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you own a certain amount of property, i think it's like more than an acre yeah you could fucking boom blouch right in your backyard got a full freezer then yeah i mean i think that's exactly why they made those rules yeah um i think it's by section you know by unit depending upon where you're at right but in some places you you literally can hunt in your backyard so i would imagine the elk avoid those places i would think so they

learn figure that shit out isn't it interesting they learn quick well that's one of the things that they said about reintroduction of wolves into yellowstone they figured it out after a while they're like okay like for in the beginning they were just sitting ducks yeah you know but that was in the 90s yeah and now we're in 2018 it's essentially the ecosystem has sorted itself out yeah and there's some good arguments that it's sorted itself out for the better yeah you know which is you know for the betterment of other wildlife other plant species that the elk were you know eating a shitload of them so it's it's interesting but also you should note that where they brought those wolves back you can't hunt right because this

is the greater yellowstone ecosystem it's like it's all all protected right so maybe they needed them there yeah it's hard to say yeah just don't bring them colorado fuckers don't do it there you go don't do it so what else are you going to uh discuss with zinc you how often do you meet like what does this job entail or this position entail um on that council says there's you meet twice a year so i don't really know what what about or when that's going to happen but uh for me and my my whole thing is like, well, if I want to get to know somebody, I like to have them do what I do. Just like you. And so he says he has a bow.

And I'm like, I said, what kind of bow? He told me what kind of bow. I'm like. What kind of bow? I said, what did he have? It's not a Hortix 1. No, it's an old bow. Oh, really?

God, I can't even. Like a high country something like that something like that but i'm like so anyway i said well i said you want to shoot that bow he's like yeah i said well i'll hook him up with hoyt i'll they can't take any gifts oh they can't take gifts so i said i said because i said that and uh i said well don't worry about that. I go, just shoot your bow. I said, how about if I come back to D.C. there and we shoot bows? You can't give him a gift as a friend? I don't know.

Maybe from a company would be an issue. It's pretty regulated. Oh, that makes sense. Taking whatever. You can only take bribes. Under the table. You can't take gifts. You can't have an actual bow. Isn't that funny? take campaign contributions yeah but not a bow yeah you can't take a bow you could

have lobbyists that are on staff they're trying to get cash and work in those special interest groups come on baby well so next take a bow we talked about next week me going back there and shooting bows with him yep and talking just about whatever you know just kind of film it once he's formed that that's right so uh we're trying to make that happen and uh i just you know like i said if you have somebody's ear you just want to be able to yeah tell them what's important to you that's all i want to do but i can do that generally better over something i care about like archery or running or lifting weights or whatever like that. So that's my goal just to, you know, share what's what, because I feel like I

have a pretty good pulse on what's important to sportsmen and hunters here in North America. And so I just want to share that. Well, I know Donald Trump Jr. is an avid archer. Like he's really into it. He's an avid hunter. He's got a hoit. Yeah. And you got a chance to talk to him, too. Yeah, yeah. Quite a while.

Yeah, he wants to do the podcast. This podcast? Yeah, so he wants, you know, me, you, and him can talk about hunting. Okay. We're in, Don. Think we'll smoke weed first? For sure. we're in Don so do you smoke weed first for sure oh for sure what's he like

no total normal I mean how's that possible how's it possible you grow up with Donald Trump as your dad

you got a golden toilet bowl when you're a little kid that's what I said I said you know I go because I haven't met any of Donald's kids except for don jr so i'm like well but i follow him on instagram you know you kind of get it i do too kind of a sort of a feel for what i said man i go you know in

talking to you i said it seems weird to say but seem like a normal guy, which your dad's a billionaire. I don't know. Is he a billionaire, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So doesn't that seem, it seems surprising. He's like, seems like just like we would be. Right.

Total normal. I mean, he's, I follow him on Instagram. I see the pictures of his daughter, super cute, the fishing pictures. But I saw him on Tucker Carlson the other night, and I told him this when we were talking in Vegas, and he was just laying it down for a one-minute clip on Instagram on Tucker Carlson, which is Fox News, and laying it down. And I was like, God, I never really had followed his political or his public speaking type life. So I was like, holy crap, this guy's pretty dialed in. It's probably the plan.

He probably takes over when the guy retires. He might. I mean, he's 40, so he's just kind of getting his feet under in that world. Donald Trump dynasty, just like they did with the Bushes. That's right. No, all of them. Clintons, the Bushes. You know, once you're in there, in there, that's all they want.

Isn't that interesting? It's crazy. But I would feel, I mean, man. Well, that's what Dudley told me. He seemed like a good guy. Dudley said he wished that Don Jr. was running for president. He said Don Jr. is very reasonable. Oh, man, totally.

Totally. It's funny. If he says one thing wrong, one thing, one slip up of a word, which which by the way everybody does every day i do it every day yeah me too one one slip up of the word cory nolten right one fuck up like that and then this dunce i mean you see all the it's just magnified ridiculous hate that comes his way and the uh the attacks against him and people people right now listening to this probably yelling at their phone, because they're fucking justified.

He's a piece of shit. He's a shill. He's a this, he's a that. Yeah, I mean, it is really hard not to get pissed off. Well, it's really hard to be unbiased. It's really hard to just have a balanced perspective. I don't think anybody does a good job as president. I've never seen a single person do it well.

I've seen Obama give very good speeches. I think he's very statesman-like. I think he's very... What Obama did that was excellent was he was very composed and articulate and smooth, and he represented a highly educated, like a high level of human being in terms of his

intellect and the way he carries himself and i think that that's good for the country you know but i think the you look at the drone attacks you look at the attacks on on whistleblowers and on the press and there's a lot of bad shit about the obama administration and everybody wants to sleep sweep under the rug because i think nobody's a good president i think it's a terrible job i didn't like how he he sort of started a war on cops you remember when he was you know crucifying some of the arrests they had and it started people were looking at cops saying are these the good guys or the bad guys i didn't like that because maybe there are some bad cops but there's bad everything you do every job has bad whatever so 100 instead of highlighting the people out there

protecting our our interests and serving the public he was highlighting the quote bad cops i guess and it and it put them all in a bad light i didn't like that whereas trump he knows, you know, he's highlighting good police work. He's highlighting the military. He's, you know, pride in the good old United States of America. I like that. So, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, well, the thing that drove me nuts, the most nuts about Obama was that crazy speech that he said, if you have a business, and that business uses the highway,

you didn't build that. Yeah, you didn't build that? You didn't build that business. Oh. You didn't build that. That pissed me off. That is the craziest way to look at things. Yeah. If I was his friend,

I would have said, okay, this is not the way to say this. Now, what he did, I think he started, like highlighted the victim mentality. Everybody's a victim. Whereas, I like Trump. He says, you're in control. Everybody's a victim. Whereas, like Trump, he says, you're in control.

Here's your opportunity. Make the most of it. It seems like a different approach. I would have phrased it very differently. I would have said, if you have a business and you started it yourself, congratulations. This is what American ingenuity is all about.

But we all have to be aware. Not just you. Not singing that person's song. You didn't build up. You didn't do it. I would say we all have to be aware that without our infrastructure, we would, none of us would be able to do it. So we all have to support this beautiful system that we have. So in an empowering way, instead of you didn't do it, you didn't build it. You didn't do it.

Taking credit away from people who worked their ass off. And by the way, he's a guy who's never been in business. Right. He's a lawyer. He went from being a lawyer to being a professional politician to being the president. Bam, bam, bam. That's one thing I don't like is people who are like their goal is to be a politician. Well. I don't like that. I'd like it if they were awesome at it, but no one's awesome at it.

I like it seems like the best, like even back in, you know, when our country was founded, those weren't politicians. Those were guys who had influence, who made good decisions, and then they were politicians. You know what I mean? I've been watching Vikings a lot lately. It's a new show I've been watching. Okay. And it seems like there's no good leaders. Yeah.

Even in the Viking world, there was bad leaders. Just leaders suck. Nobody wants a goddamn leader. And when you're a leader of 350 million people or whatever the hell we have here, it's just impossible. It doesn't make any sense. What's going on, Jamie? I just looked up that quote. You didn't build that.

Out of context. Uncut and unedited. But he said it. He said those two sentences, but not in that way. Oh, if you've got a business, you didn't build that. Hey, you know what that is? Somebody else made that happen. Fake news.

Okay, so what is the actual quote? Wait, I mean, here's the... Let's hear the real quote. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher. Okay, but what is... If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Okay, somebody invested in roads and bridges. Okay, but what is it? If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Okay, somebody invested in roads and bridges.

Okay, here it is. Somebody helped create this unbelievable American system that we have allowed you to thrive. That we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in the roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. That's just a shit way to say it. It is. I don't care even in

context somebody else made that happen yeah not not somebody else we all chipped in did somebody saying i think i know that's what he's saying but it's a shit way to say it it's a shit disempowering way to say it is that's what i don't like it takes credit away from the people that it's there's a way to do that there's a way to phrase that that needs an edit and a rewrite and by the way how the fuck could he even have time to do that when you're writing i mean you're writing under the pressure of being the president of the united states i totally sympathize i get it i'm not saying i would have done better i would have done way worse but it still sucks yeah it's just not a good way to say things. I agree. You didn't build it. No. You didn't do that. I don't like, you said disempowering. Yes.

And that's exactly right. And so it feels like there's a different tone right now. And I'm not saying, you know, our president is perfect. Just say it. White people. You like white people. I'm not saying that at all. I get it, dude.

I'm not saying that at all. But I'm just saying nobody's perfect, but I like that part of the message. Yeah. Well, but i like that part of the message yeah well he definitely has that part of the message but he's obviously said a bunch of stupid shit too but he's also a guy who flies off the cuff i mean this you we have to take into consideration what this guy was his entire career he's a giant larger than life personality with crazy hair who puts his name on everything yeah and then he ran for president like of course he's gonna stay that guy when he becomes president we go no no no now that you're president it's like when you when you're in if you're playing beauty and the beast and you're the beast

you gotta act like the beast now you got the role yeah you gotta act like the beast like right why are you still acting like hugh grant yeah you know't. I know. And it's the role of being the president is this, you know, this majestic top of the mountain that we look at like, oh, he's the guy. He's the main dude.

Yeah. You're supposed to act like the president. That's what they say. He's not presidential. Exactly. It's like he never has been. But you know what?

He's been a leader. Yeah. You know, so here's what I know. I don't see anybody. I don't see ISIS over here bombing the shit out of the United States anymore, you know what? He's been a leader. Yeah. You know, so here's what I know. I don't see anybody. I don't see ISIS over here bombing the shit out of the United States anymore. You know, because they're almost, they're all dead. There's a lot.

Well, there's a lot of that. But they were never bombing the shit out of the United States. They're trying to. There's a few dummies that snuck over here and did some stupid shit. They're not here. Horrible shit. Yeah. Look, the one thing that the military has said, and friends of mine that are in the military and guys like Tim Kennedy that rejoined, he said that they feel like for the first time in a long time, the military is basically got the handcuffs off and that they are allowed to do things the way they think would be best. And a lot of people don't like to hear that.

They like to say, well, no, the politicians are supposed to control the military, and it's supposed to be, you're not supposed to allow the generals to make the decisions. Right. There's a debate back, and this is, again, like a lot of other things. This is a very complex, nuanced conversation that you'd have to have all the facts at your disposal. I don't. No, either do I, but I can say they're not bombing the shit of the united states it's not like a complete

redneck right and that's how i see it but i understand there is i mean well you need a strong military because the world has some dark places and anybody who doesn't think that you need a strong military you need to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in syria in north korea and a lot of parts of the world where there is chaos. And this is an entirely real possibility anywhere. Anywhere that exists, it can exist here. If you see horrible tyranny and destruction and chaos in other parts of the world, the only reason why it's not here is because of geography.

If they can get there, they can get here. If things can go sideways in Iran or Iraq or wherever the fuck it is, they can go sideways in America, too. And if you don't think that we need military, you're goddamn crazy. Because I would love it if we didn't. I would love it if we lived in this utopian world where everybody treats people the way you or I would, where you don't have to worry about it. If you and I were neighbors, I would never worry about you invading me. You know? I'd be like, oh, Cam's never going to bring a gun over and fucking

take over my house. He's a nice guy. If the world was like that, it would be wonderful. It would be wonderful. But right now, it's not currently like that. And people that I know, like Tim Kennedy, a guy who's been there, a guy who's done that, a guy like Jocko Willink, a guy who's been there, a guy who's done that, a guy like Jocko Willink, a guy

who's been there. Those are the guys that I turn to when I want to know what's going on over there. I want to get a real perspective. You want to get a real perspective for someone who's been in active duty in a combat situation, who's been to these horrific parts of the world. They can tell you what's going on. And when they tell you that what's going on and when they tell you that it's a better situation yeah the military has the handcuffs off i listen to them

that's a good sign yeah that's good and i yeah i talked to tim at shot show and he you know i about going back in and he's had that same thing so i mean i don't know it just it it feels like uh i don't know it feels better that they that we're not having terrorist issues over here anymore. Yeah. I mean, I really wish that everyone would come back home. I really wish that no one was in Afghanistan. I really wish that we weren't the police people for the world. I really wish that we're not sending young people to die in foreign wars that don't make any sense to you or I or anybody that really knows what the fuck is going on there.

But this is the world we live in right now. Yeah. manage it the best we can yeah protect us protect people here yeah and hopefully protect people there too yeah you know it's just now that's why you got to respect the people that are over there doing that and and you know it's just like you know what a sacrifice you know and it's uh i i want to never take it for granted that there are you know we're safe here things are going on but just what's the sacrifices made by people in the military it's uh i never want to forget it yeah it it is a very controversial subject with people because um if you're on the left you want less military you want less war you want less violence you want less everything and that that's a totally reasonable position but i think in a lot of ways it's like wildlife like you're talking about it as someone who's

never experienced it and i think once you experience it and once you've been to these parts of the world at least my perspective based on the descriptions that I've gotten from people that have been there, that it's way more complex. There are just parts of the world that are fucked. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's not black and white, that's for sure. And I think it's going to take many, many generations for those parts of the world to become a better place for people to live in and then sort of catch up to what we think of as

civilization in the western world and yeah you know i mean you look at parts of the middle east where the women in iran are risking their lives and their safety by not wearing a religious outfit yeah there's all these protests where these women are on the streets where not wearing the hijab and they're walking around and they risk being imprisoned. Yeah. It's amazing. This is fucking crazy. I know.

And these women are brave as hell, man, and they're out there just saying, fuck this, enough already. Yeah. And they're taking pictures like that, and they're putting it up on social media, and there's a big revolt there right now where people are just tired of it. They want fucking freedom yeah you know and they see what's going on the rest of the world they have the internet and they get a chance to see what's going on in america and that's one of the things that we always have to remember about

america yeah america might be fucked in some ways and there's we definitely have issues but there is more opportunity and more possibility for you to do what you want to do here than almost anywhere on the planet Earth. That's a fact. That's a fact. Yeah. That's a fact. And there's more art that comes out of here. And there's more comedy that comes out of here.

There's more. There's so much more movies. There's a lot of great shit that comes out of this one spot. Yeah. It's a great place to. I mean, we're blessed to live here. We've only known this, you know. And I couldn't imagine living someplace where it wouldn't matter how smart or how hard of a worker you are or how, you know, whatever talented you were, you weren't getting out of there. And that's how it is in some places.

And so, you know, in here, it's not like that. And, man, I just hope we never, I never need to forget that. I never want to forget that. And I just hope other people just realize that because it's not like I've been everywhere. But I know that the challenges like the women have that you were talking about, it's like, I couldn't imagine that. Yeah. Look, one of the reasons why I'm pro-America is because I'm pro-human being.

Yeah. And I think there's more chances for people to be who they really want to be and become what they really want to be here. You know, and I support a lot of left-wing ideas. Equality and freedom and gay marriage. i think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do i mean go have fun just be nice don't just do be you just go be you yeah so when you know people see me and they like see this giant american flag behind me yeah and they think immediately oh right wing oh fucking all right, or whatever this is. What is this?

What do you support, imperialism? You support this? No, I support the idea of what America is. Yeah. That's what I support. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Fuck yeah!

Woo! So, Al Cunning, September. Are we back? Same spot? Going deseret is that is that locked in hell yeah that was crazy yeah that's a beautiful place no i know that was one of the most fun times i've ever had yeah well we're gonna we're gonna do it again i'm excited me too 470 000 views um that video was a lot of fun to make too man i just wish that they had put in uh the the elk that you shot yeah your elk you did wind up shooting an elk uh an elk but did the the video that did not get the actual arrow hitting the elk on camera so what the issue was it's tough you

know bow hunting is hard bow hunting on film is even harder yeah and so it's even harder. And so we do the best we can to tell the story. I don't think it does tell the story very well. No, but we do the best we can. It is hard. I think it should be a lot longer. That's what I think. I think that thing should have been at least an hour. And I think even then it wouldn't have told the whole story.

Because you look at it like it's one of the things that I told a friend when we were watching a hunting show before. They're like, wow, it looks so easy. They just go out there and they always shoot something. I'm like, man, to shoot one of these shows, like we were watching Meat Eater. First of all, Meat Eater is one of the rare shows that they'll have a lot of shows where they don't, they're not successful. Yeah. Like I've done two different shows with them where we weren't successful. Yeah.

We just go out there seven days. Well, that's most hunting. Most hunting. Yeah. Like I've done two different shows with them. We weren't successful. Yeah. We just go out there seven days. Well, that's most hunting. Most hunting. Yeah. So when you boil all that down to 22 minutes with commercials, it just looks like inevitably you're going to get to about 18 minutes in. Someone's going to shoot something. Yay. They got it. It seems like they're shooting things that are definitely going to be there, but that's not the case. No, there's no guarantee, especially with the bow. Yes, especially with the bow. And I think, well, I mean, we can film on ourselves. We can film on ourselves and make it as long as we want. That's what I think we should do. I've been thinking about that a lot because I was frustrated by that whole thing and this archaic idea that everything has to be 10 minutes long. You're talking to a guy who does a three-hour podcast.

We've been talking for quite a while today. And millions of people listen to this. So I just, I don't buy it. I think it's an archaic, antiquated way of looking at things. I don't think it's right. And I think this idea that people have an incredibly short attention span, listen, people are consumers of entertainment. And especially people who love hunting, I watch a lot of videos hunting i watch a lot of videos i watch

a lot of hunting videos i watch a lot of videos on science i watch a lot of shit i watch hours and hours of stuff things that i'm interested in right the people that are interested in elk hunting they don't want to just see a couple guys laughing and joking around that an arrow hits a big bull and everybody's happy no they want they want to see what happened. What was the struggle? There was a lot of struggle. There was a lot of days. We had to keep hammering.

We did have to keep hammering. That was fun. That one clip was hilarious. That was totally, by the way, folks who listen to this or are watching this, if you watched that clip of Cam and I, that was not rehearsed. No. That just came out of nowhere. We were just fucking around.

Keep hammering has been around a little while. It's been around a long time. They thought that was the origins of nowhere. We were just fucking around. Keep Hammering has been around a little while. Oh, it's been around a long time. They thought that was the origins of it. They did that. That's because that's how good we sold it. Yeah. That's how good we sold that thing. Yeah.

Well, that's your sense of humor that I think most people are not aware of. That's what you say. You have a very funny, dry sense of humor. Oh. You know? That was fun. Yeah, we had it. That was a lot lot of fun so who's coming this time is adam green tree gonna come down oh where to utah yes oh i don't know this is listen under armor get your shit together this is what we need remy warren adam

green tree john dudley cam haynes me ben o'Brien, make it happen. Sell it. Wrap it up. Make a video. An hour long. How about just Under Armour? Let me film it. Just let me handle this. You guys don't know what the fuck you're doing.

No, I think. Ten minutes. I know. I think we can. I just want to. Man, I've always wanted to just share the hunting adventure. The real hunting adventure. The real hunting adventure. Give it the content, the time to develop the story. Just let it evolve.

Do you watch those Hushin guys on YouTube? No. They have great videos. Are they good? Yeah, and they've got a lot of content. One of the things that you really get out of their content is you really get a sense of how difficult it is. And mostly what they're doing is public land hunting. Oh, Born and Raised?

That's another group of guys. Yeah, I watch that. I watch those guys, too. Yeah. But one of the beautiful things about YouTube is there's no time parameters. Right, yeah. No, and people, yeah, I mean, we are just kind of locked into this 22 minutes with commercials type thing from the Outdoor Channel. And it doesn't need to be like, I was talking with Brandon Shockey about this back at, and he's so talented as far as a filmmaker goes. And even in Womack, who put together our Utah, I mean, without the handcuffs of a time restraint, I just think there's, the sky's the limit. I agree, too.

I agree, too. I think the story should be what the story is. And just say, just make it what it is. You don't, I don't give a fuck if it's 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes. People will watch it. People will watch it. Yeah.

And the ones who don't, they weren't going to watch it anyway. Yeah. The ones, the idea that, like, you get it in 10 minutes and somehow or another it's more digestible in 10 minutes, like, stop. Yeah. That's not real. People have these weird ideas in their head about things. Like, oh, but the statistics show that more people watch 10-minute videos.

Well, if you want to watch videos about babies chewing bubble gum or some stupid shit like that, yeah. Yeah, the 10 minutes. But you're supposed to be showing respect to what is one of the more difficult and misunderstood pursuits in the United States. And that's bow hunting. Right. It's incredibly difficult and incredibly misunderstood. Yeah. And I think it's a noble pursuit.

incredibly misunderstood yeah and i think it's a noble pursuit and i think it's also it's one of the more intriguing things and more interesting things i've ever done in my life well i know and i don't know if you capture it all in one film but i just know that you know if somehow we could capture the just the more of the journey because there's people that don't know anything about it just like want to know how to get started i don't know if you'd have one film that'd do all that, but I just know that there's people hungry for knowledge out there that we're reaching even with this podcast or with social media that haven't been ingrained. So it's like we're making these films to people who are already hunters.

Right. They already know everything. Right. And so to them, oh, we've got to do this in a short period of time or they're going to get bored because they've done this a million times themselves. That's bullshit. No. We need to make it for the masses.

Exactly. Because that's who we're reaching now. I mean, it's the millions and millions and millions. We're reaching more people than actually buy hunting licenses. So we need to remember that. Yeah, and the idea that you're even reaching hunters that they're gonna get bored after 10 minutes that's crazy no yeah because i'm like you i watch all sorts of hunting stuff especially you and me we're entertaining as fuck let it roll yeah like the uh what were

we saying oh yeah with the with the um chicken tied to the dog neck. It was one of the funniest things Cam's ever said. He was talking about this guy, his dog was, my dog's killed a few chickens. And I'm like, fuck, how'd you get your dog to stop killing chickens? He goes, oh, we tied a dead chicken to his neck. And Cam goes, they should tie a dead stripper to your neck and it was just out of the blue and I was fucking crying laughing but that

was one of the funniest things you said but there was one other one what was the other one we had a hard time remembering it remember the other one that you said before yeah it was even funnier than that but my point is he's got fucking stand up comedy timing that sounds like something that like one of my comic friends would have said. Oh, okay.

I wish I could remember the other one. There was another one that was funnier. I know. Fuck. I know. God damn it. We're going to remember. We laughed about the dead stripper tied to your neck for a long time.

Many times. Many times. It's also, too, at the end of the day, you're kind of exhausted. You're tired. You're delirious. You're eating dinner. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's where the timing comes in exactly well it's like those hunting camps are so much fun like you at the end of the day you and me and ben sitting around laughing cracking jokes yeah it's half the fun and the family up there the land family love those guys salt of the earth you know tom land and his boys they just it's just it's just fun to be they feel like family when you go back up there you'll you'll feel that this year well he's a great guy the whole staff they had there was fantastic it's just an awesome place and it's such a beautiful piece of land you know this is 240 000 acres yeah and that's that you know, I know we're probably wrapping this up, but so when you talk about hunting and conservation real quick, you know, on that piece of property, 240,

they could make more money by running cattle on it. Right. Do you realize that? But if they ran cattle on it, that habitat would be thrashed. Right. The water sources would be thrashed. All those flowers, the grouse that live there, gone, because it's just cattle. But if the goal is making money, they could just do that.

But the goal is to make money but also enhance the habitat, and hunting is the best way to do that. Yeah, and it's just a magical place. Like the mule deer that we saw wandering around, these big mule deer, and they have everything there, all sorts of different wildlife. And it's gorgeous country, too. It is. Beautiful. Yeah. All right, let's wrap this bitch up.

Cameron R. Haynes on Instagram. And is that the same as Twitter? But you don't even use Twitter, really, right? No. Facebook. Do you use Facebook at all anymore? A little bit. People die off that, right?

Instagram's got it beat. Instagram's got it right now. All right. And next video we make folks be about four hours long no we can't the video the hunting video we're just we're gonna keep hammering we're gonna keep hammering bye everybody Thank you.