The Joe Rogan Experience - #1101 - Chris & Mark Bell

Episode Date: April 9, 2018

Chris Bell is a writer, director, and filmmaker known for the documentaries “Bigger, Stronger, Faster” and  “Prescription Thugs”. Mark Bell is an elite powerlifter and owner of Team Super Training Gym in Sacramento, CA. Together they are currently working on an untitled new project about food and health.

3, 2, 1. Is that a gun? That's a real gun? Gentlemen, we're live. What's up? What's going on? How are you, fuckers? Doing great, man. It's great to be on the show again.

Great to have you guys here. You know, I was watching your Instagram the other day, and I was looking at you with fake hips, doing crazy fucking heavy deadlifts, man. That's amazing. I am starting to deadlift a little bit more because I've been doing this carnivore diet and I feel great and there's no reason not to, right? So I just figured if I can do it and it doesn't hurt, then why not? So I was going up to about 400

pounds, but I think I can still, I think I can even get stronger now. So what I'm so happy about is this is something squatting and deadlifting, it's something that was part of my life all growing up. I was a power lifter all growing up. He's the one who got me into this shit. And it got taken away from me, and I was really sad and disappointed, became a drug addict and an alcoholic because of it, and now I can lift again, so I feel good. Is that unusual for someone who's got artificial hips to be able to do something like that?

Do you know? How many people people you know that have artificial hips well i do know that ed cohen who's the greatest power lifter of all time he has two fake hips now right yeah i think so i think he still squats 600 jesus yeah he can still listen fake yeah at eddie cohen check him out he's a beast hips, squatting 600 pounds. They say that is like one of the most effective replacement surgeries that they do is replacing people's hips. I think it's a great surgery. Before I got it done, I mean, I couldn't even get up out of a chair. I'd be stuck. I would stick places. And before I got it done, I couldn't really move at all.

And then after I got it done, they had botched one side. So one side went perfect. The other side for two years was all screwed up and the doctors didn't know it. What was screwed up about it? The cup, there's a cup and then there's the ball that goes into the cup. The cup came loose and it would shift around.

Now they think that the cup comes loose because when you do both hips at the same time, they hammer one hip into one side. And then you're completely like a dead body almost. And they flip you over. It's really violent, actually. When they flip you over, they think that's when the hip might – that socket may come out. So they're starting to question doing them both on the same day now. Yeah, I've heard of people getting one done and then a couple months later.

I would recommend getting one done because then when I got the one that was messed up redone and I had one good leg and one leg to recover on, it was so much easier. I didn't have to have the special toilet and all the other stupid things. You could be on crutches instead of being a wheelchair probably, right?

If you only had one day at a time. I actually wasn't even on crutches. I came home from the hospital and that day that i came home from the hospital i was i was walking i even climbed a ladder and our mom yelled at us yelled at me because i climbed a ladder and she's like what are you doing you just got a hip surgery and i'm like i gotta change this light bulb now i would think that one good benefit about weight lifting would be increase in bone density and that you would want that if you have artificial hips especially because you get that bar that goes down deep into the bone we just got a DEXA scan done we got weird shit going on we

got really weird shit going on we had a DEXA scan done and dr. Jacob Wilson told us that our bone was it bone mineral density yeah it was mine mine was like off the charts but his was way off the charts yeah and then like we also got a muscle biopsy done by uh dr andy galpin and he's just like dude i love that guy he's like i don't know what's going on with your with my muscle and his muscle he's like but we need to talk about this more and so it's called steroids yeah i know yeah so he said he wanted to interview me more and talk to me more about what I've taken over the years and all those different things. It works.

It fucking works fantastic. This is the reason why people do it. I just think I heard you talking the other day about throwing a roundhouse kick, and you said it's a second nature to you. And I think for us, we've been lifting for so long and a lot of this stuff. Even when I was a drug addict and alcoholic, the entire time, I still trained every day. I wasn't doing as good of a job, but I still would make it to the gym every day. It's ingrained in us. It's something that we've been doing forever.

So your body's just designed for it. I don't know if it's designed for it. Well, not designed, but you've sort of designed it. I think it's something that found us. Really? We did kind of stumble upon it, but I think it's something that found us. I was strong right out of the gate. He was strong right out of the gate. He was strong right out of the gate.

I mean, I remember my friends benching in the garage, and they were benching the bar, maybe a 10 on each side. And I was, you know, doing a plate, doing 185, 12 years old. He was an animal when he was young. There was just something there. There was some sort of strength. Our mom benched. 135. Yeah, she benched.

Your mom can bench 135? Like right off, you know, like without ever lifting. I want to say I think she benched. What did she bench? 135. Yeah, she benched. Your mom can bench 135? Like right off, you know, like without ever lifting. I want to say I think she benched 185. She might have. In the same day. That's what Joey Diaz would say, immigrant mentality. Where's your mother from? Yeah.

Where's she from? She's Polish, right? There you go. Yeah, I just got some of my shit done. Hard fucking people. I'm just white. Yeah, we're like a mutt mix. Did you get 23andMe done?

He did. I got one of those things done, and yeah, I'm like Irish. I'm like only 4% Italian. I thought we were more. It makes no sense. Our grandmother was directly from Sicily, so I don't understand how that happened. Yeah, we don't know what's going on. Yeah, well, even if she's from Sicily, who knows what happened when she was over there.

Yeah, where she came from. Yeah, I she came from. Yeah, I need to get mine done. I've been wanting to get it done for a while. It's pretty cool. Some of them can tell you allergies and stuff. They get mad? Yeah. You know what people get mad?

The people who are not really Native American. They get really mad. Shit, I thought I was spiritual. Well, people are like, I could drink so much because I'm Irish. And then they find out they're not. You're just a drunk. Yeah, shit like that. It happens all the time.

People get really upset because they're not what they've been rooting for their whole lives like yeah people take great pride in that for some reason that's weird so dumb yeah where you're from who cares i'm american control over that yeah i i wish i was something stupid but there is i mean it's not like one right yeah polish is a silly one but there's in my mind they're fucking hard people oh yeah i've known a lot of polish people and like they're fucking hard people. I've known a lot of Polish people and they're fucking tough people. Like Joanie and Jacek. That's a perfect example.

I was going to say aren't some of the fighters Polish? Sure, Karolina Kowalkiewicz. That bitch is a beast. No disrespect intended. That woman I should say. Yeah, those ladies are fucking tough. Like when I was a kid

watching pro wrestling Ivan Putski. How jacked was he? Fucking jacked! Now he works at a strip club in Vegas. are fucking tough. Like when I was a kid watching pro wrestling, Ivan Putski. Yeah. Polish power, man. Fucking jacked. Now he works at a strip club in Vegas. Does he really? Yeah, Polish power.

I would like to go to that strip club just to shake that guy's hand. I don't know if he still works there, but I know that a bunch of the wrestlers worked at Cheetahs. I know the Godfather,

the wrestler, the Godfather, he still manages Cheetahs in Vegas and I think some of the wrestlers worked there. In real life? He's a real pimp in real life? Dude, I was watching

some clips from last night from WrestleMania and Ronda Rousey was with Kurt Angle and I was looking at Kurt Angle's body and I was like, wow, that guy's gone through some damage. He's a machine. Goddamn beast. He's gone through some damage. Lots of neck surgeries. Well, you could see it in his arms. The neck surgeries you see

in guys' arms because their arms atrophy. Yeah, he's atrophied a lot, yeah. Because his fucking neck looks like a goddamn tree trunk. He's just got this neck that starts above his ears, and then his arms are not nearly as big as they used to be. I think it's nerve damage, right? Exactly, yeah. I had Pat Miletic in here a couple weeks ago, former UFC champion Pat. Yeah, I love Pat.

He's great. He's got one arm that's smaller than the other one. Boss Rutten will be here tomorrow. He's got the same issue. He's got one arm that's smaller than the other one. Boss Rutten will be here tomorrow. He's got the same issue. Savage. It's necks, neck issues. I had a bulging disc in my neck, and I was getting weird numbness in my hands

and then nerve pain in my elbow. In the elbow. The ulnar nerve, it goes on there. And when you ignore that shit and then keep training and keep getting your fucking neck yanked on, then the disc starts to decay. And then the pressing against the nerves and the spinal column, it gets worse. And then it starts atrophying and cutting off the nerves to your arms.

And you get to the point where your shit just shrinks and it doesn't come back. A lot of that stuff happens in your sleep too. Like something gets aggravated from training, but you sleep weird. You sleep with your neck all twisted. You know, that happened to Brian Shaw. But Brian Shaw is 415 pounds. But he said he wished he had a good story for why his arm was atrophying. And he lost his grip strength 100%.

He's the world's strongest man. He lost his grip strength, and it was mainly all through sleep. He got a sleep apnea study done. And then he got a CPAP. The CPAP to help actually cure everything. He tried to do any and everything. He was doing all kinds of different things to get his hand strength back and it turned out it was mainly his sleep. He's too big to sleep on

his side. Whoa, that's crazy. So how does he have to sleep? Face forward? I think he has to sleep on his back. He should get one of the massage tables. Just sleep with his whole face in the hole. I want to do that. You fall asleep on those things all the time. Fuck yeah. It's a good way to keep from snoring.

Yeah. Because the thing with me, I have a fat tongue. And if I lie down on my back, my tongue, I have sleep apnea too, but I wear a mouthpiece. You hear about some of these people taping their mouth shut? Yeah, you could do that. What's that about? There's people that wear a chin strap. You ever try that?

And you can breathe through your nose and it'll help. Yeah. Because if you breathe through your mouth and your tongue falls back and it covers your mouth. You're not recovering properly. You're not breathing properly. I would wake up with headaches. I would just wake up tired and with headaches. And then I went to this guy, Dr. Kropian.

He's in Encino and he has this mouthpiece that is essentially, it's a mouthpiece with like a tongue and it presses down like a tongue depressor. It presses down on your tongue and it keeps your tongue from falling backward. It was a fucking game changer for me. Shit. I tried to see just changed. Yeah, I tried to see Pat for one night. I'm like get this fucking robot bullshit machine out of my face. Yeah, Mark didn't like it.

He got scared. Yeah. Yeah, I'm claustrophobic. So it scared the fuck out of me. Really? Yeah, I hated that shit on my face. And I tried the nose one. I tried the mouth one. I couldn't do either one of them.

Mouthpiece. I had sleep apnea really, really bad. And it's cleared up a lot by just losing weight. Being less fat. That's a big thing. Yeah, that's a factor. That's a factor for a lot of people. The fat in their neck and everything just sort of.

I mean, I was. Yeah. You got so big. Substantially fatter. So, I mean, I could see why. Yeah, it's the thing with weightlifters, you know, interesting thing. You get so big that you can't sleep. What do you spill some shit on your shirt?

You spilled some coffee there. That's the worst. Try to wipe it off. Keep it from getting stained. Yeah. So tell me about this carnivore diet. Sure. Because I had Sean Baker in here and he talked to me about it, but he doesn't have any science.

You know, there's no like, he doesn't have any like real tests or any long-term studies or anything like that. And, you know, I'm a person who believes in balance. And I think that you need phytonutrients, you need plant fiber. I think there's a lot of healthy stuff that you get from plants. I'm a big believer in eating meat though. But all meat. You guys are doing all meat.

Well, I think there's – I've modified it. I think there's some holes. One at a time, boys. Yeah, I think there's some holes in every diet. Right. I think when you go and you make the decision to only eat meat, then some rational thought should come into your head.

Maybe when I switch all the way to just meat all the time, maybe there's a possibility I'm going to eat too much meat. And so maybe that would make sense to bring in some fruit and bring in some vegetables just so you're not eating too much meat for the simple reason vegetables have been shown. And there's, you know, you can get a study to show you anything. But there's a study that's been done on 200,000 people that went on for 14 years. And they studied vegetables. They studied every type of vegetable. And they found that they were more neutral than they were harmful or good for you. They found that fruit was a little bit better for you.

And again, you can have any study say anything. Wait a minute. What is this study? It's called the PURE study. Wait a minute. They said vegetables are neutral? What does that mean? They're neutral.

They don't really help you that much. They weren't necessarily great and they weren't necessarily bad. In comparison to what, though? I don't know what their standard was for what they were looking for exactly, but the main thing they were looking for was it being protective in terms of your heart. That was the main thing they were looking at. So they found out that saturated fat is protective of your heart. They found out that cholesterol is actually protective of your heart. They found out that cholesterol is actually protective of your heart.

They found out that salt is... Now it's all like, you know, without... You can't take in tons and tons of salt because then something's gonna... Well, salt can kill you. If you eat a pound of salt, you're dead. You know, salt's one of those things that's really good for you. It's an essential mineral. To a certain extent.

But if you take too much of it, you will die. So I think any of these things can be done too far. I jumped on a carnivore diet just to give it a shot and to see exactly what it was about why did you do that because you talked to sean sean baker yeah he was he was on your podcast i got inspired to do it he was already doing it so i was like all right let me try it out i tried it out got leaner felt better and i was like this is pretty cool and why'd you start it so i was doing a ketogenic diet right for over a year i lost a lot of weight on that. It was doing great. You look really good, man. You look very thin and healthy. I appreciate it. Your face looks healthy. I still have a long way to go in my opinion.

This is a work in progress, but the reason I did it was really simple. It's a dietary intervention. I went through sobriety, as you know. I was a drug addict and an alcoholic for about six years. And when I went through sobriety, that's an intervention. Like there's something wrong. There's a problem. We need to fix it. So my problem now was arthritis. And I needed something that was like an intervention that would get me from being arthritic and in pain and not being able to lift to being able to lift. And

so there, some of this might be a placebo effect of me going like, well, I'm on this diet and I feel great and whatever. And so I'm, I'm now lifting more. Some of it may be a placebo effect and that's okay with me if it is, but I feel excellent on this diet. And I think the reason is, is I'm getting a lot more protein in. I wasn't getting enough protein on keto because I was listening to everybody say, well, it'll knock you out of ketosis if you eat too much protein. And that's what I constantly was being told, but I wasn't muscular. I didn't have, I wasn't being able to put on muscle. Well, you, you were constantly testing your blood levels. Were you using a meter? Yeah. Every day, about three or four times. Like I'm crazy with it

because knock you out of ketosis the things that would knock me out of ketosis were just like mainly anything with carbohydrates um i wasn't really having too much of a problem with protein because i wasn't eating a lot of protein but um there was there were things that if i cheated on my diet for example of course that would you know usually kick me out of ketosis but then i also got to a point where you become so fat adapted, that you become what we like to call metabolically flexible, metabolic flexibility, just means you can switch from being a fat burner, you know, mostly a fat burner, for the most part, because I'm eating high fat. But then if I do eat something with sugar in it, it doesn't really affect me that much. Because I'm 90% going with the fat. So I can kind of move back and forth

between those two things. But what I realized on the carnivore diet, when I switched over to carnivore, the whole time I was thinking, man, if I could just have an apple, I would feel so much better because just eating this steak, it's killing me and it's driving me crazy. How's it killing you? Just mentally. I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't tough enough to enough to just say okay i'll just have steak on a plate like yeah mentally well you automatically use intermittent fasting almost because you're like you don't always have a hamburger in your pocket or you don't always uh run through in and out burger or whatever it might be but yeah you end up utilizing some intermittent fasting and you're like fuck man

the only food i have to eat is a hamburger or steak. That's where I was at. And it was hamburger or steak. And I'm like, well, how about an apple? So I talked to our friend, Stan Efferding, who's a bodybuilder and he's huge. He's jacked. And he's also a power lifter. 51 years old too and fucking jacked.

One of the smartest guys I know. And he sent me that study that I sent to you about the fruit. And I don't know if you watched that or not, but basically they did a large-scale study with fruit. And they found out that the fruit actually would drive blood glucose down instead of bringing it up when taken with protein like red meat. And so I'm like looking at this going like, well, it's not going to drive my glucose up. I mean, that would be the one thing I'm concerned with. Why not have some fruit? And so then I'm talking with Stan about it.

He was saying, like, I think fruit is totally fine, and I think you can have as much as you want. And so I sort of switched over. That sounds crazy, though, because that's sugar. I mean, how is your body not at its blood glucose level? They've done studies where they've studied fructose. So, like, everybody thinks fructose is really bad. Well, they think that because of high fructose corn syrup. And fructose is really bad when it's outside of fruit.

Right. But for some reason, a fruit has these phytonutrients. It has fiber in it. And those things sort of like protect you from what's going on in the sugar. They actually – there's phytonutrients in fruit like say an apple there's certain phytonutrients in there that won't allow your small intestine to like absorb the fat and so it actually helps you to digest things like red meat that have high fat there's yeah there's cofactors in fruit that help you digest the sugars

in them and i'm not too sure i'm not a doctor i'm a filmmaker so i start you know i basically um ask a lot of questions to a lot of people and start figuring things out and then it's trial and error um right now i'm in the trial trial and error part and it seems like it's been working pretty good so now are you getting your blood work done yes um just got my blood work done um from last month and it everything improved from keto to carnivore. I didn't really have any cholesterol issues. I didn't have any – what were my issues? We've had our blood work done probably four or five times in the last year or so, I'd say.

And not all the numbers are fucking great, but for the most part, it's been pretty healthy. The cholesterol has been good. The triglycerides have been good. This doesn't show up in your blood. Well, what's not good? Just it's not in the high range of, you know, of what it shows you on the sheet. And then we also have other people. For what?

Oh, in terms of like the triglycerides and the cholesterol and stuff like that? Is that what you're talking about? Well, like what you're saying, what's not good? Oh, I'm just saying. In terms of what? In terms of like the triglycerides and the cholesterol and stuff like that? Is that what you're talking about? Well, you're saying what's not good. Oh, I'm just saying. Not in a high range. Yeah, no, I'm saying everything's been pretty good. Like this last time I did have my – I had one of my markers kind of high. Well, we both had high C-reactive protein, and we're not sure why.

So that's something that we have to like look into. And what is C-reactive protein? It's a marker for inflammation. And my C-reactive protein. Specifically of the heart. Yeah. My C-reactive protein. You both had this.

Mine was really high on keto. But then after I went keto to carnivore, it came way, way down. So I don't know where it is right now. I also had a really high. Mine registered really high out of nowhere. It was totally fine with all the blood work I've had done. And the last one I had done, it skyrocketed. People were saying, well, maybe it's because you worked out beforehand.

Right. Were you consistent in when you ate, when you got your test done? Were you guys on a fast? I trained beforehand, so I might have fucked it up. Oh, you fucked it up. For sure. When you train, you should never test yourself after the way you train yeah you train like a fuck the uh the blood work it's it's you know it's a snapshot in time you know and we hear that a lot right and i think that that's important to

to realize and recognize that um it's just you know this one snapshot in time and we we constantly change all the time so particularly important with dietary cholesterol. I mean, with cholesterol in the blood, the way it registers, if you have a big, you know, fat-filled meal and then go and get a blood test versus you fasting, it's like, how is your body absorbing this is what's really important. How's your body absorbing these essential nutrients, not like what happens right after you eat? Because your body knows what to do with that stuff.

My cholesterol was 190, which is good. I mean, they want it to be under 200. But I thought what was really interesting was my HDL went way up from about like 60 points. It went up going from keto to carnivore. Well, are you eating a lot of fatty cuts like rib eyes and stuff like that? Mostly rib eyes. I like a lot of dietary fat i

like a lot of like meat fat you know i think there's a certain point right because um i i don't know before when i was doing a ketogenic diet um the fat is kind of free-flowing because you make your bulletproof coffees and you're just dumping fat and everything you're putting butter on everything right but when you have we're doing. But when you have a steak, what's really nice about having a steak is you're right about 65% to 75% fat already. Like just out of the box. You're eating corn-fed beef? Is that what you're eating? I eat both.

I think that the difference between the grass-fed and the grain-fed, there really isn't a substantial amount of proof of how much better that is. I do know that grass-fed beef has five times the amount of omega-3. So you always want to pick grass-fed beef when you can. But a lot of people can't afford it. And also, for me, the best meat is at Costco. That's the best-tasting meat that you're going to find. I've been everywhere. Why is Costco better?

It just tastes the best. I think they should. They have the best meat I think they do And it's corn Fuck some like Expensive butcher shop It's corn fed

Go to Costco I think Costco's outstanding Do you know Costco Is all organic now too That's a weird word though That word is so loosely defined Sure What is organic?

Well we didn't spray it With a fucking chemical Right before we gave it to you There is a What is exactly organic? You have to you have to pay to get organic status, too That's a weird thing. You know you have to pay a lot of money because I remember um Talking to the bulletproof and the guy was telling me like you have to to Dave Asprey's tell me you have to pay money to get Recognized as being organic so I would

the fat green recognized as being organic. I would take whatever that guy says with a fat grain of salt. Yeah, sure, I know. But I'm saying you have to pay to get it to be... I wonder if that's true. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, it is true. Is it that you have to pay? Well, I mean, I'm sure it costs money to get tested and to make sure that you're certified. Yeah, something like that.

You have to pay money for it. I mean, there has to be some sort of a test and test costs money. I mean, but when you're looking at the standards, like what does that mean? It means no antibiotics, no added hormones, right? Is that what it means? I believe so, yeah. And for food, it means no pesticides, right? Yeah.

I mean, excuse me, for plants. Fruits and vegetables, yeah. For fruits and plants. The one thing that concerns me with grass-fed meat is that you're eating, well, you're definitely getting a more expensive cut, but you're eating an animal that is eating what it's supposed to eat. Yeah. When you're eating, like, I've had Wagyu beef and Kobe beef. It's delicious.

It's awesome, man. But that thing's dead. That's a dying animal. That's like eating a giant fat guy about to have a heart attack. I mean, all that marblingbling that's not supposed to happen like you shoot a bison like a free-range bison you get a dark ruby red hunk of meat i mean and that's a i'd have to say that i completely agree with you um but there there isn't science to really support that eating a cow that was fed with soy or corn is necessarily way worse. And so I might just be stupid for waiting for that to come out.

It could be worse. Hold on a second. You just said that there's way more omega fatty acids in grass-fed beef. Omega fatty acids are essential for brain development, muscle development. There's so many benefits to those essential fatty acids. And if those are more present in grass-fed meat, wouldn't you just assume that grass-fed meat is more nutritious? Yeah, I would say that it has more omega-3. It might be more nutritious in that particular way.

But I say, like, you know, is the cost benefit? You know, the other day I went and bought grass-fed meat from Whole Foods. $33.99 a pound for a filet. $19.99 a pound at Costco for a filet. The Costco one is so much better. The one from Whole Foods was almost not edible. It didn't taste good. It's a real tough piece of meat sometimes.

Tough filet? At Whole Foods, I don't know why. They have crappy meat. For some reason, grass-fed stuff sometimes is a little tougher. And it's super expensive. Did you get a sponsorship for Costco right before you know? No sponsorships, but what I'm saying is that I've I've gone out to a lot of places to try to find what me I thought taste right the best and um, you know, so for me sometimes I have to like you have to eat a lot of meat and if it doesn't taste that good, you're not going to get through it. So I prefer to have meat that tastes better. I like, um, for grass fed meat, I like to use a grass fed beef patties because they're a little

fattier and it just tastes really, those tastes fine to me, you know, but the grass fed steaks, they don't really taste as good. So I just kind of switched back and forth. I think these are some of the smaller issues. These aren't the main things that we're really But the grass-fed steaks, they don't really taste as good. So I just kind of switch back and forth. I think these are some of the smaller issues. These aren't the main things that we're really trying to fight. My brother and I, we just took on to do another film. And he and I are doing this one together on nutrition. And we're trying to find out some truths.

I mean, we're trying to find out about grass-fed and organic and all these different things. But mainly, we're just trying to figure out how the fuck do we help fight obesity? How do we help fight diabetes? How do we help people gain control of their diet? And I think that's really truly what we're talking about is control. And you look at something like a ketogenic diet, in my opinion, it's one of the few diets that can really help people with control of their diet because it can help break up the cravings. And that's really ultimately, I think, where our it can help break up the cravings and that's really

ultimately i think where our fight is against it's against cravings of all these convenient foods that taste so fucking good well the cravings are in our face all the time refined carbohydrates and sugars those are giant and when you excuse me when you hear about saturated fat being dangerous it is dangerous if you take saturated fat with high levels of carbohydrates and high levels of refined sugars. Dr. Rhonda Patrick went over that in depth, and it's really fascinating. The reaction that your body has to the high levels of carbohydrates and the high levels of fat. See, your body is either fat burning or carbohydrate burning. So when you combine the two of them together, you have a nightmare.

Yeah. You're really not supposed to do that. But it's not the saturated fat that's the problem. It's the saturated fat in conjunction with the refined carbohydrates and sugars. And one of the things that they're finding, too, is one of the big arguments that vegans in particular have used for high-carbohydrate diets in relation to obesity is look at Asian cultures. And Asian cultures, you have low levels of obesity, but high levels of high carbohydrates.

But you know what else you have? High levels of diabetes. Diabetes. Diabetes. You don't have to be fat to be diabetic. How many people in China? 400 million people with diabetes? Well, their level is slightly lower than ours in terms of diabetes.

But Japan's level is higher than ours. It's pretty high, right? Yeah. Japan's level of diabetes per capita is higher than ours um in terms of diabetes but japan's level is higher than it's pretty high right yeah japan's level of diabetes per capita is higher than ours i would say their body fat levels are probably pretty high too no no their body fat levels are lower than ours we're gross oh of course they're not you and i and not the three of us we're not gross but americans we're fucking gross yeah you know we eat fucking dog shit we we eat the man look and we and speaking of dogs we feed our dogs shit. The only two, like, species on the planet that get fat are human beings and the things that we feed.

Oh, you see my friend's cat. Yeah. It could be a cat. It could be a dog. But it's our pets and people. Those are the only things that get fat. Ice cream. We grew up like that.

We grew up eating Oreo cookies, having, you know, a plethora of ice creams and different things in our cabinets. We go to the gym and do a full-on squat workout, work up to 500 pounds and go home and eat half a gallon of ice cream just because we didn't know any better. It's not even true. It wasn't a full workout. It was just a squat, as heavy as we could. Then we went home and ate ice cream. But there's some benefit for eating some sugar post-workout, right? I know Jim Stilpani, he believes in that.

He's into gummy bears and shit like that. There is a big shift, though, in what's going on in nutrition and what people think about that post-workout carb window and all that kind of thing. I think a lot of people have been shifting away from that kind of stuff. A lot of people have been shifting away from six meals a day. A lot of people have been shifting away from fasted cardio. And a lot of these dietary sort of myths that we thought that we needed to do, we're looking into it and going like, wait, if you don't eat after you work out, you don't lose muscle. You don't do that. These things don't happen. So do you need to do that?

Like it could be beneficial or it could not be. But we're starting to realize that maybe some of these things that we were doing aren't necessary. I think there's science behind it too because there's money to be made. So I don't think it really matters exactly when you take in your carbs. I think if you were just to have carbs throughout the day, I think you would end up with a similar pump and you'd end up with similar recovery levels. I know there's a lot of studies showing that, but there's probably not a study showing if you took in 300 grams of carbs just normally versus dumping some more in after a workout well you guys

know Rob wolf right absolutely awesome he's great well one of the things that Rob wolf has done is pretty interesting is he and his wife will eat the exact same thing and then an hour later they tested the glucose and they have very different results and this is something that's really important to emphasize everybody's body is different sure and some people some people just, like, I have one daughter that can't, she's lactose intolerant. She drinks milk, she starts farting. She's seven years old. She thinks it's hilarious.

She thinks it's hilarious. I know. But it does hurt her stomach a little bit. Yeah. You know, but she'll have, like, a little ice cream and then she'll start farting. And she does it on cue, too. She goes, there's something really important to tell you. She nails you with it, right? She knows, like.

What, she's been hanging out with you? She's got time. That's his jokes. But my other daughter, my nine-year-old, has zero problem with it. So it's just a physiological thing, and it's a weird roll of the dice. I mean, human beings, we vary in eye color. We vary in height. We vary in everything.

And we definitely vary in our dietary needs and that's what makes it so crazy to try to give people uh any sort of nutritional advice because you know you can't talk in generalizations you can't say this will work for everybody i can't get on here and say an all meat diet i think you can will work for everybody you can in some way i think most people are eating too much sugar people that are fat or just eating that and that and that way period well that's that's what we're trying to define by doing a documentary. What are the couple things that we can point to and say everybody needs to do this, this, and this, and then these other things are like. I just wonder if your average American only ate 100 carbs every day if people wouldn't be fat. Well, I think there's different carbohydrate requirements for athletes, though.

Like my friend Cam Haynes who runs, like when he's training for these ultra marathons, he runs a fucking marathon a day. That guy needs more carbs than the average guy who sits in front of his desk and is on a keto diet. But maybe he needs more fat. You know, like you can only store 2,000

calories of carbohydrate in your body at one time, but the normal average person has about 40,000 calories of fat just carbohydrate in your body at one time but the normal average person has about 40 000 calories of fat just hanging out on their body and they don't even know it right so we have a lot more energy available to us um as as fat if we learn how to utilize carbs are also crucial from one workout to the next so if you're anybody that ever does multiple workouts in a day any of these mma fighters crossfitters they're're doing multiple. They absolutely need carbs. And it's a good opportunity.

Like, forget the carb window necessarily. It's just another opportunity to eat and to get in some calories. And so I think for them, post-workout shakes and those carb shakes can be really beneficial. It's a problem with athletes, too, because they're always trying to find the optimum performance and you're experimenting. And you're wondering how much of your mind fucking yourself, how much of it is just because you worked out too hard? Like, where's your energy level at?

Is it you didn't sleep good? Is it your diet? Like, what is it? You know, and they're always trying to figure it out. It's a big commitment and a big deal to actually stop what you're doing and to eat because it takes you like 20, 30 minutes to actually eat. It might take you 10, 20 minutes to cook the meal. And then you have 20, 30 minutes to actually eat. It might take you 10, 20 minutes to cook the meal.

And then you have 20, 30 minutes to try to digest it. And you're not sure if you're doing MMA, you have intense workouts. Or if you're doing CrossFit or some of these workouts can be really intense. You're not sure how that's going to sit. So sometimes for me, I'm just like, fuck it. I'm just going to use intermittent fasting. But I don't compete anymore. So for me, it doesn't matter as much. Well, intermittent fasting is absolutely

beneficial. And I think one of the things that we're talking about, one of the benefits of the keto diet that you also get from intermittent fasting is when your body goes into fat burning mode, your hunger goes away. It's the weirdest thing. And it's a great benefit. That's an important thing to kill. I had a really poor relationship with food before I even started the ketogenic diet. And by doing women too, let's not talk over each other. I know it's hard and we're all doing it, but let's try. Gotcha. And so, but yeah, not being hungry has allowed me to have a little bit of, you know, I feel free now. I feel like I'm not, you know, attached to food. I don't need food all the time.

I used to think about food all the time because I was constantly, you know, eating things with sugar in it. I used to go to the movies and because I'm a filmmaker, I love to go to the movies and I used to go all the time. And I had this rule where during the movie was my only time I could cheat on my diet and I could eat whatever I wanted. And it turned into a clusterfuck because I'd have the little pretzel bites with the cheese that you dip in and I'd have Sour Patch Kids and Twizzlers and I'd buy three bags of candy and pretzels. And I'd eat the whole thing during the movie. Because the movies usually suck.

And I need something to do to keep my mind off of the shitty movie. So I would eat the whole time. And obviously that didn't work. And I was dieting besides that. But it wasn't doing anything because I was just killing all the, you know, all the progress I was making. But by doing this ketogenic diet and not being hungry, it's allowed me to just sit back and look at food and go, I want that. And I want that because it's good for me. Rather than say, I need this now because I'm hungry.

Do you still do cheat meals? No. Well, once in a while, I shouldn't say no, because then somebody will catch me on Instagram with a piece of cake and be like, that guy's a liar. But the thing is, I don't, I try not to, but there's things that are cheating for the carnivore diet that sometimes like come into my life. Like somebody makes a new bar and they give it to me and they're like, oh, here, try this bar. And I want to just try it to see if it's good so yeah It's off my diet And I'll eat it but my cheats are much less damaging than they used to be my cheats now are what some people call health foods Now when you say carnivore diet you saying that all of your meals are just meat yeah

Just me yeah, just me just steak usually or grass-fed beef and then salads No salads for the most part every once in a while like if I'm at a restaurant or something and a salad creeps in I'll have a couple bites of it but I'm not a vegetable kind of guy I've never really liked them but I do love fruit I like the sweet stuff but I don't like the vegetables that much so how much fruit do you eat a day now about two to three pieces of fruit a day, like an apple, like maybe two apples a day,

probably something like that. And how many meals a day? Maybe one. And then about two meals a day, like two, maybe like two steaks or, you know, maybe four burger patties or something like that. So it's not a whole lot of food that I'm talking about. I can't eat like Dr. Sean Baker. He's an animal.

He eats about four pounds of meat a day. He's a big giant dude. Yeah, he's six, five. He's a foot of meat a day. He's a big, giant dude. Yeah, he's 6'5". He's a foot taller than I am. So that's pretty crazy right there. So, yeah, there's not a whole lot of food. I think a lot of people, when they hear all meat, they're just thinking I'm downing these giant plates of food. But I'm not that hungry.

So I do have to try to hit my protein goal each day, though, which is about, about you know i need a certain amount of protein so i need like 168 grams of protein or something like that i went off the rails the other night at peter luger's in brooklyn i saw that we were we were so excited whoo so good but we were eating steak and then i was stuffed from the steak but french fries were there and it's a weird thing man when you eat steak and there's fries you could be stuffed from the steak but you fucking keep pounding those fries yeah those salty fries are still goddamn good you know uh palate fatigue is a big thing and that's what uh professional eaters do yeah they go from like they'll be eating ice cream and they can't eat anymore so they eat some french fries because

it's a different it's like a different taste salt there's something about the fried food with salt you could just stuff more in there. It's weird. If you look at like Brian Shaw, the world's strongest man that we were talking about before, he uses dextrose. He takes like, puts it on rice, which is just sugar, and he puts it on rice so that you can eat more rice. Jesus.

Yeah. Just so he can get bigger? So he can get bigger, yeah. So he can maintain his felt 440-pound body. That's fucking ridiculous. Well, that's a totally different thing. One thing that we've tried to do is we've tried to not celebrate. You know, I think that can be an issue.

It's like you do want to celebrate here and there. You want to have some fun here and there. But have control over that celebration. Like you're celebrating, you know, your buddy's birthday party that you never even talked to and you're getting drunk and eating fucking cheesecake and stuff. Celebrate when you really want to. Celebrate when you really kind of, quote, unquote, need to. Maybe you celebrate after you lost 20 pounds. But if you celebrate by cheating on your diet, it's actually like more harmful to you than it is a real celebration.

You're hurting yourself rather than helping improve yourself. cheating on your diet, it's actually like more harmful to you than it is a real celebration. You're hurting yourself rather than helping improve yourself. Now, we do need to be, we do need times where we do have fun and we kick back and have a couple of drinks, but drinking or overeating, a lot of those things, even when you're trying to stay on your diet, they will almost always lead to you cheating. I noticed that when, if I overeat, that's, that's when I get hit with a craving sometimes. somebody might think i'm just going to stuff myself with a bunch of burgers i'm going to stuff myself with a bunch of meat um it for me it hasn't worked that way it kind of makes those cravings creep back in yeah for sure i mean but it's also psychologically it's fun to cheat

absolutely give yourself a little bit of a break get Get some linguine with clams. I'd say even like on a carnivore diet, there's some things that I eat that I'd consider them like slight cheats, like going to In-N-Out Burger, you know, getting like a Flying Dutchman. You know what that is? No. Flying Dutchman is a patty, then two pieces of cheese, and then a patty. That's cheating? Well, it's... Because of the cheese?

Because of the cheese, yeah. And it's not grass-fed or anything like that so you're like who knows what i'm eating but at least it sort of fits on my my plan but those are so good that every once in a while you know you stop it in and out and get a couple i get it with the lettuce on um they give you way too much lettuce i think that they give you like an entire head of lettuce and i'm like how do i get through this you don't like lettuce no not really not a big fan. Neither one of us love salad. I said on Instagram the other day that salad is fake news, and people got really pissed.

But what I meant by that was just that people are dumping tons of dressing on it. Oh, yeah. And they're not getting what they think they're getting. And especially, like, a lot of salads that you get at, like, a restaurant are just – they're not even very green or anything. I think – Not full of nutrients. There's a couple dressings. Mark Sisson makes a dressing that's pretty good

made with avocado oil. I think things like that. He says, I made this dressing because I wanted to be able to dump as much as I want on here. The more I dump on, the healthier it gets. I like that idea. I use his mayonnaise because I eat a lot of Wild Game. Wild Game doesn't have much fat at all.

You talked about that chipotle mayonnaise. And I started eating like crazy after you said it. I ate a ton of it this morning with a steak. It's really good. I take it, I'll slice a piece of steak, dunk it in, I'll put a fucking glob of mayonnaise on my plate, I'll dunk the steak in the mayo.

But it's a chipotle lime mayo and it's made with avocado oil. So you're getting all these healthy fats. It gives you some nice taste. And again, because I'm eating moose and elk and deer, it's a very, very lean meat. If I'm not eating a cow, if I'm not eating beef, my meat is mostly a really lean meat.

You wouldn't be able to do a carnivore diet on those kind of meats, right? I mean, it's too lean, right? Yeah, I would think so. You'd have to add fat. You ever heard of rabbit starvation? Yeah, rabbits are extremely lean. And you can eat only rabbit and literally starve to death. Wow.

Yeah, people have experienced rabbit starvation. Sounds crazy. It is crazy. Because it's so lean? Yeah, Google that. Google rabbit starvation, what that means. Because someone told me about that, and I literally never looked into it other than what they said. But it's so lean that your body just doesn't get enough fat.

Do butchers typically add fat to wild game, like when they chop it up and stuff? Not protein poisoning. Protein poisoning, also referred to as rabbit starvation, a rare form of acute malnutrition thought to be caused by a complete absence of fat in the diet. Oh, that's interesting. They call it protein poisoning. Yeah. So because if you just eat rabbits, like if you just have like a fucking room full of rabbits.

Can you live off rabbit meat? Yeah. You can live off rabbit meat, but most people would eat rabbits, eat rabbits with potatoes and look at that. Rabbit starvation. Man cannot live by rabbits alone. The meat is too lean. Add fats and a few carbs or protein to the lapin.

I guess that's what a rabbit is, and you can easily survive. Rabbit meat, lapin, is typically too lean. Yeah, it's interesting. It's leaner than chicken, I guess? Yes. Yeah, well, those little fuckers are just running all the time. I found it interesting on a ketogenic diet. I was up around 200 grams of protein when I first started it.

And I was just dropping fat like crazy. Just dropping weight. That's not a ketogenic diet. 200 grams of protein? No, of fat. Oh, fat. You said protein. Yeah, 200 grams of fat.

And I was dropping. Did I say protein? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that was confused. I was doing 200 grams of fat. And I was just dropping fat like crazy. Oh, yeah.

But then it came to a point where it stopped. I think that's what everybody needs to know is on any of these diets, they eventually plateau or stop, and then you have to sort of figure out how to get around that roadblock and continue to lose more weight or do whatever you're trying to do. Well, with some people, just too much protein knocks you out of ketosis because your body takes too much protein and reverts it to glucose. I think it's a lot. I think it's overstated a lot, though. Is it? I mean, I think, like, if you have a couple grams over, you're not going to be in trouble.

But if you're eating 500 grams of protein or something crazy or even, like, 300 grams of protein, you know, after a while, you're going to get to too much and you're going to have that problem. But I feel like for most people, that's not going to be the main issue, you know? For me, it's inflammation. Inflammation, the big difference is when I eat a lot of carbs, if I go off the rails and I'll cheat and have pasta or bread or something like that, I experience more inflammation. I experience more soreness in my joints. You get more fatigue.

You get tired. You get that insulin crash. You get all those big factors that I just don't get when I eat clean. When I eat just meat and salad and vegetables and high-fat diet and low-carb, my body is just way more efficient. It feels better. And the big thing that I keep trying to stress to people is you don't need a nap. That fucking afternoon nap, which I just thought is something you need. Yeah All that is is just your body recovering from lunch from carbs

Yeah, you're fucking carbs at lunch if you don't have that the day is much more efficient. I get more done I have more energy, you know, it's like people say how do you do like all these podcasts to podcasts a day? I like no I eat good eat good and Eat good, and it's not hard. It's not hard. Your brain is functioning all day long. But, man, if I stopped at noon and had a fucking pizza and then tried to do a podcast, I'd be here going, oh, is this done yet? I need to sleep. Yeah, you just get tired.

Yeah, you get exhausted. We've been doing this diet since the mid-'90s, since like 1993, I think it was, around the time we kind of started. We've been doing them on and off for a long time, and more recently I used it to drop 70 pounds. But I think one of the things with keto that I noticed was it almost doesn't really matter that I'm in ketosis all the time. I think the effort to be in ketosis, I think, is important by getting rid of a lot of the carbohydrates that you have, the effort to kind of eat a little bit more fat. But what I've noticed is I don't think I need to really go out of my way to eat tons and tons of fat. I don't need to be dumping tons of MCT oil on stuff. I don't need to, there's enough fat usually in the steaks that I'm eating. A lot

of times I get ribeye. Sometimes I eat bacon, eggs, things like that. I put up on my Instagram the other day about seven or eight foods that I thought if you just stuck to these seven or eight foods for a handful of days, you would lose a lot of weight. And the response was amazing. People were writing back, and they're like, holy shit, man, I lost 10 pounds. Well, a lot of people do lose weight off of keto. There's no doubt about that.

But even Mark Sisson, who was one that got me into it, Mark goes on and off, and he thinks me into it, Mark goes on and off. And he thinks there's some benefit to going on and off keto. Yeah, I don't think you have to be in ketosis all the time. Ketogenic diet. Yeah. But even when you go off, you're not switching your diet to spaghetti. You're not eating fucking Wonder Bread and shit like that.

You would love it if you switched to spaghetti, right? That's your thing. Pasta? Well, I like it. I like it when I cheat, but I don't like the effect on my body, for sure. I just like the taste of it. Like linguine with clams is one of my favorite things to eat, but the way I feel afterwards is not my favorite feeling.

How about bread and butter? Why is that so good? Why is that so good? It's amazing. It's so good. Well, you know, people out in California, they don't even know. We always talk about this. Hard rolls.

You used to go get like a buttered roll in the morning. We grew up in New York, so you'd go get a buttered roll. the morning and we grew up in new york so you go get a buttered roll that was the best with butter yeah it was the best thing ever yeah and out here they don't have them thank god i'm actually glad they don't have them you know what i've had that i fucking love sourdough bread with grass-fed butter and honey oh my god man sourdough sourdough is really good but honey on top of the butter oh jesus with all this ketogenic. That sounds amazing. With all this keto stuff going on, I've been wondering when somebody's going to make some

bread. Like figure out. They have. No foods. It's terrible though. It's not that bad. No foods is good. I like their bread.

I make egg sandwiches with their bread. The no foods. I haven't tried that one. I haven't tried that one yet. They make a lot of good stuff. I know they just came out. Yeah. I've tried the waffles.

They're fucking good. The donuts and stuff like that. But I think a lot of those things for me, they just came out. Yeah, I've tried the waffles. They're fucking good. I've tried the donuts and stuff like that. But I think a lot of those things for me, they have way too many carbohydrates for me. They do. Way too many. But isn't there something about the type of carbs they have? They have fibers in them usually. Yeah.

They don't raise your blood sugar level. Yeah. Well, I don't want to eat regular waffles on a regular basis. Yeah. Well, I don't want to eat regular waffles on a regular basis. But if I'm going to cheat and I eat what they have, and they also have a very low sugar syrup, too, that tastes very good with some butter. It's just the best option if you're going to do something like that. Exactly. You should mostly eat real foods.

I feel better when I eat meat and vegetables. That's when I'm – when I'm, you know, I had Jordan Peterson on and he had some pretty serious autoimmune disorders and his body was really in trouble. And his daughter had similar problems and his daughter went to essentially a diet of just meat and greens. And now I think she's on a carnivore diet and she's got a Instagram page to documenting it. But he went to meat and greens lost a shit ton of weight what was losing i think he said he was losing what does he say like seven pounds a month for something like something along those lines lost a ton of weight and looks great he said he's

thinner than he's been in 25 years feels great all his autoimmune issues were done i think a lot of what people are dealing with is inflammation that's caused by too much processed carbohydrates, too much simple refined carbohydrates and sugars. And the inflammation leads to disease. So if you look at what they call the five scourges of health, they are obesity, cancer, cognitive decline, heart disease, and diabetes. Those are all metabolic. Those are all things that we get through food. And over half the people that are in the hospital today, right now in the United States, are in there for metabolic issues.

So that's crazy. It is crazy. So more than half of the people that are in the hospital are there because of what they ate. It is crazy. And you see a direct correlation between the amount of refined sugars and carbohydrates human beings have adjusted and started eating to the rise in diabetes and heart disease and all these other issues. And, you know, one of the things we were talking about before the podcast is – sorry, I went running today. For some reason, I can't stop coughing.

People are dealing with a lot of various health issues. And they're always trying to pin one cause of these health issues. And one of the real problems is when people develop these ideological answers, like veganism is one of them, they do not want to think that there's anything healthy about meat and that what they do is the only way. And this is the way. And I'm watching this. There's a thread right now going on on Twitter between some cockamamie vegan doctor who's

full of shit and all these people that are citing science. And he is getting pissed off and he's showing his degree and photos of his degree. They're like, look, motherfucker, there's real science to the fact that dietary cholesterol is necessary. It's the building blocks for cells. I mean, it literally is. It's the reason why your body is converting it to all the sex hormones, cholesterol, saturated fat. Your body processes that.

It's healthy for your brain. It's healthy for your heart. All these things are a fact. He's not recognizing the fact that the issue is not saturated fat. It's saturated fat in conjunction with all these other things. And that's a problem with these studies. Like one of the studies they did recently where they showed that people who ate meat more than five times a week were much more likely to have heart disease. But that's not a good study because they didn't say, what are they eating the meat with?

What are you eating the meat with? Are you eating it with bread? you eating in a in a you know as a burger are you drinking a soda with it right like this is not a good study a good study would be have someone you know get a large group of people put them on a carnivore diet have a large group of people put them on a keto diet have a large group of people put on a standard american diet let them eat burgers and fries and chocolate shakes and sodas and let's find out what the fuck it is. Put people on a vegan diet.

I have had tons of friends, including Sam Harris, who was on a vegan diet and his fucking blood sugar was off the charts. He was trying to figure out how to stay healthy. He tried. He tried it for a long time, but he felt like shit and then he went and switched to fish and he felt like shit just doing that, too.

And then he went back to meat. Now he's healthy again. I think the answer always seems to come back to being in the middle somewhere, right? Somewhere. We veer off so far, and we're like, oh, man, we got Doritos, and we got cookies, and we got all this stuff being thrown at us every single day, and it's convenient. being thrown at us every single day and it's convenient and then somebody will say okay you don't know more carbs and you just go the complete opposite route and you end up with something like a carnivore diet but i think just if you just sit there and think about stuff logically it would make sense to me that you can overdo it on meat like i think you can overdo it on just about

anything yeah that's why i lean towards balance and that's why i like vegetables but i can't talk you guys into that yeah i think your balance your balance is probably ideal, but the balance of the average American is not great because I think they think they can just grab and reach for anything. That's their level of balance. Well, I think the average American is just trying to feed themselves. They're hungry and they're tired. And, look, there's a great Henry Thoreau quote that most men live lives of quiet desperation

and I think that applies to so many different things and one of them is work. Most people are fucking working all day and they're sad and they feel like shit and when you get out of there, you're like fucking Wendy's drive-thru. Come on, baby. Hit me up with one of them fucking double cheeseburgers.

Chocolate shake, please. Woo! They get a little reward. And then they feel even more shitty. And then they crash and they get up and they do it all over again with a fucking Egg McMuffin and a cup of coffee with three scoops of sugar in it. And this is the roller coaster that most people are on.

And it all started with them going to bed too late because they stayed around and fucked around on their phone or watched TV. They went to bed too late. They woke up later than they wanted. They're tired because they didn't get the sleep they were supposed to get. They drank the coffee, right? And it's just one thing snowballing after another. Now, what are you guys doing in this documentary?

What are you trying to document? We're basically just going around interviewing people that are sort of in the know, that are writing these books, like Mark Sisson, Rob Wolf. Those are some of the people that are sort of in the know, you know, that are writing these books, like Mark Sisson, Rob Wolf, those are some of the people that we interviewed, and just asking them, you know, basic questions about diet and nutrition, and sort of seeing what, where they stand. And then we sort of, we shot about 15 interviews right now. And then it's my job to sort of figure out, like, well, how does this all correlate together? So we don't really have, I'd say it'd be disingenuous for me to come on and say, this is exactly what we're going to do because I have no idea what it's going to be. And I think

that's the beauty of it. When we shot Bigger, Stronger, Faster, I had no clue how that was going to turn out. And I think a lot of documentary filmmakers, they go in with like, here's the point I'm going to prove. Let me find all the people and string them along and then figure out how they fit into the puzzle and if they don't conveniently fit into my puzzle they're out right and and i just i don't know i i developed a different way of doing it i just like to try to get as much information as i can and then think about it a lot and then put it in a way that makes sense to me so you're basically doing the opposite of a lot of these propaganda films like this is one of the doing the opposite of a lot of these propaganda films. Like this is one of the problems that

I know a lot of people that have had heart disease or all these various issues, they've paid attention to some of these propaganda films. So there's a couple of vegan ones that are out there right now, What the Health, that's been widely dismissed by scientists and nutrition experts.

And I would love to interview him or any of the doctors that are involved in that because, you know, why not? Let them speak their mind and let's hear what they have to say. And then let's talk about it, you know? And I think that's another interesting thing because the other thing I also feel is like the guy that made What the Health, i just feel like he has good intentions also yes right i mean he's not trying to like kill people kill people he's trying to help people just like i'm trying to help people so he's over here going like this guy's trying to help people eat

and meet he's crazy the problem is i'm not doing that to him i think like there is a lot of benefits to a vegan diet there are a lot of people that could benefit from it can everybody benefit from it i don't know there's a lot of things missing also so i i definitely question it but i don't shit all over it i don't think that's the way to help people the way to help people is to sort of bring them together and figure out i think it's very rare that people do it right i think if you do it right and you have some sort of B12 supplements, whether it is from greens, like what do they use? What's that? Algae greens. Oh, yeah, the algae stuff that Dominic D'Agostino uses, right?

Yeah, there's a lot of that stuff that you can get your B vitamins from. And if they're not opposed, I mean, some of the simplest organisms on the planet are mollusks. And I know that people think of them as animal life, but they're more primitive than plants. I mean, there's certain clams and mollusks and things like that. They don't feel fucking shit. They're not suffering. They literally don't have the capacity for pain. And they're one of the more primitive life forms on Earth.

I mean, we deviated from them 600 million years ago or something like that. They're barely an animal. We can call them an animal. But see, what we say is because they move, you know, because the clam closes its mouth, we've decided that that's a living thing. Plants move too. I mean, you have the plant that eats the rats. Yeah, that thing's awesome.

Or Venus fly traps. But the thing is, plants are far more complex in their ability to communicate, in their ability to even express predation, pain, and protect themselves through various chemical means to protect themselves from predation. They change the way they

taste to keep from getting eaten. And there's been studies also that if you just play the sound of a caterpillar eating leaves next to plants. They recognize that sound and they change their taste profile, which is just fucking crazy. And those are chemicals like lectins, things like lectins and stuff that can be very damaging to people. A lot of people don't know, but if you eat cucumbers and tomatoes and stuff like that, you're getting a lot of these lectins that a lot of people are, they have adverse reactions to. So a lot of people be eating, you know, a variety of vegetables in their diet and not

understand why they still don't feel good. They need to look into that. They may have a lectin issue, you know? Yeah, it's entirely possible. So a lot of people don't know about it. When we started this film, you know, we were going to call it the war on carbs. That's what we were talking about. And that's what we've been talking about for quite a long time but

as we started to go through the movie we're like oh i don't know more on carbs like maybe that's going to isolate and that's going to uh pigeonhole the movie into one style but as we started interviewing more and more people we realized that the problem is carbs it's really a problem a war on refined carbs and vegetable oils and sugars. Sugar, which is a refined carb. When you say carbs, you're talking about pizza, basically, and ice cream and all the excess things that people are eating. Power and saturated vegetable oils, refined carbohydrates, refined sugars. And these are all a product of the modern world.

Modern industrialized world they call it production Western they call the diseases Western diseases because they didn't used to have these you know diseases on the level in other countries and then when we started exporting you know molasses and we started exporting rice and everything else we were exporting to these other countries that didn't have it they all got sick they all started getting sick you know they all started their obesity rates went up their diabetes rates went up. That's just proof right there that if you eat that stuff, it

will have those consequences. One of the great ways I've seen someone talk about, I forget who it was that was discussing this. They were saying, look at humans' teeth. People did not suffer from the type of tooth decay they suffer from now. What is that from? It's from refined carbohydrates and sugar.

That's what it is. And especially sugary drinks. Like people were constantly drinking soda. I mean, you are just fucking torturing your teeth. You're just throwing acid on your teeth all day. Yeah. I can't believe I used to eat all that stuff when I look back. You know, man, I used to eat all that and- Look forward to it too, right?

And I guess I thought I felt okay, but I really didn't. You know, like thinking back on it, I'm like, I feel way better now. But back guess i thought i felt okay but i really didn't you know but i like thinking back on i'm like i feel way better now but back then i thought i was okay i thought i was doing a good job you didn't know any better i mean that is the thing even doing a low carb ketogenic diet i was still eating a ton of vegetable oil you know and stuff like that and that's just it was what kind of vegetable well just like i'd okay chicken wings they don't have carbs in them but they're deep fried right right? Right. It's terrible. Oh, you're eating that, yeah.

I mean just stuff like that I'd say that you still have in your diet and not know about. I used to have – I was doing a low-carb diet, so I'd figure, okay, I'll make a big salad, and I'll dump this dressing all over it, and the dressing's full of soybean oil. Oh, yeah. Stuff like that. You're not thinking about it. Yeah, yeah. oil. Stuff like that. You're not thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. So when you set out to do this, what was the motivation? Just because your own, the health benefits that you found from adjusting your own diet? I think just, yeah. I mean, I just like to help people. I like to make

films that can help people find their way and find what's good for them or what works for them. And they can take it or leave it. I think this falls in the category of addiction too because the place that he came from where he was addicted to drugs and alcohol and he was able to overcome a lot of that, I think the ketogenic diet, I think without it, I think it would have been a lot harder.

Oh, way harder. I think the ketogenic diet played into it. Why so? I did a ketogenic diet in rehab. So when I got to rehab, I was like, I'm not eating carbs like that's it but why why did that help you um it helps with your cognitive function it helps you to um it just it helps your brain you know helps your brain work better habits and so um when i when i went to rehab you know i was about 245 pounds and i came out at like 215 uh from a keto diet, and I started training again a little bit.

But I was still very sick, and I was very – I was messed up at that time. I wasn't right mentally or physically. I was just broken, and I was ready for a change. And so it was very humbling. It still is, actually, to even talk about it. So getting knocked down a little bit helped me. It also helped me to start back over and start back over with a better head on my shoulders, you know, because I used to think I knew everything. And now I think I know nothing. And I think that that's important because I have this white belt mentality now that I use on

everything. And I actually got that from talking to Fabricio Verdum because like he was always learning, always thinking he was learning. Right. And so I asked him one time, I was talking to Fabricio Verdum because he was always learning, always thinking he was learning. And so I asked him one time, I was talking about something. He said, yeah, I have a white belt mentality towards everything. I think I've heard you talk about that as well. And I think that's important, though, because we think we know everything. We start preaching all this stuff. And then I turned around and go, wow, I really don't know what I'm talking about a lot of times. I really better think about what I say more.

And even now I'm just a lot more careful about making absolute statements. I don't make any more absolute statements or things like that because you want to be sure that you're conveying the right information to people. What were you saying before the podcast started? We're going to bring it up again about veganism coming from a religion. Yeah, veganism started with the Seventh Adventist Church, I believe. with the seventh Adventist church, I believe. So there was a group of people that had a church and the guy that led the church as part of the church

was like, they were following the Jewish kosher laws or whatever at first. And it was like no pigs or whatever else, shellfish, I think, no pigs or shellfish. And then the guy just said, it just sort of took it to a next level and said like no no meat no animal products at all and so these people that were in this church were like the first real group of vegans the church of seventh adventist i think is what it's

called is where it came from like 1863 is when that like movement i guess started i'm sure i'd started early i'm sure people were doing it earlier than that, obviously, but I think that that's where the roots came in. And I just find that really interesting because it does seem like a religion. It seems like a lot of times you get – I get called out a lot on Instagram and stuff like that from people that are vegan saying, like, I can't believe you do this and blah, blah, blah. But I would never go on their page and say anything to them at all. Well, they're proselytizing. I mean, that's a big part of this whole community is there's a moral high ground. They stand on it. And then a lot of these people, especially people with vegan in their name and their screen name,

they always go after people. And they try to shame people. And what they're doing is in many ways is a very good thing. They're not participating in factory farming. Right. They're not participating in the horrors that we see in these fucking PETA videos where you see cows and pigs and chickens that are just being tortured. All that fuck. That is disgusting.

And that should be eliminated and shouldn't be a part of modern culture. But in terms of like the humane raising and killing of animals look they're not going to live forever and i don't care what you say i'm not into animal suffering i don't think they should suffer but if you try to say that people are not herbivores or that people are herbivores rather and then we're not omnivores you're crazy it's just not true it's not fact and they show picture these are not the teeth of a carnivore these are are the teeth. We're not carnivores, stupid. We're omnivores. They show you the intestines and everything. Yeah, we look real similar in our teeth to

fucking chimps. Chimps are omnivores. And the human diet is a very complex thing. When you attach that human diet to ideology, then it gets really screwy because you're not dealing with people that are being honest about dietary, like, what is really important.

And for dietary requirements, how your body functions, what the studies show. If you look at it objectively, the objective, the first thing anybody should say, first thing across the board, get rid of all the fucking sugar. That's number one. Get rid of all the refined carbohydrates. Eat more vegetables. I think you guys don't. Eat more vegetables. I think you guys don't. Eat more vegetables. Eat healthy fats. Get some form of omega fatty

acids. Recognize that the omega fatty acids you get from flaxseed oil are not as bioavailable. It's a fact from studies. Not as bioavailable as the omega fatty acids you get from fish and meat. They're just not. The meat, the protein. You say, well, broccoli has 15 grams of protein.

It's not. It's bioavailable, you fucks. And you know it's not. It's just not. So you can get bioavailable protein from plants. You get it from hemp. You get it from quinoa. You get it from peas.

Pea protein is very good. But it's not as good as the protein that you get from meat. It's just not. Can it sustain you? Yes, it can. Can you be a healthy person and live a fucking balanced life on a completely vegetarian diet? 100%. But I would always recommend eat free-range eggs.

You're not hurting a chicken. Nothing gets hurt. It is free food. I have chickens. They roam around. They eat vegetables. Nobody eats them. The chickens live a fucking healthy life. They lay eggs. We eat the eggs. The eggs are healthy as fuck.

Eat those. Find a place that has free-range chickens. Eat the eggs. I mean, it's not vegan, but it is vegetarian. If you want to get rid of dairy and you don't want – I get it, man. I've seen dairy farms. It's fucked up. You see what they're doing to cows and the way they treat them and the way they raise them and just the whole idea behind it like making them lactate

the only time cows lactate is when they have a baby yeah right so they keep them in this state and it's just it's unnatural and that is a reality of dairy production and if you don't want to be a part of that that's 100 noble but we have to be honest about nutrition requirements not about the ideology of veganism and this is the problem with these people and so many of them especially the ones with vegan attached to their identity because they use the name like the i'm i'm vegan warrior this is vegan prince i'm the vegan defender they're fucking morons who joined a gang and what they do is they start eating plants. They start talking shit. And they go looking to just go after anybody who's not on the same page as them.

And the real problem is people that watch a movie like What the Health and then think, well, that – this is – oh, my God. I'm killing myself by not being a vegan. No, you need to Google what the health debunked and find out the actual science because what they're talking about is bullshit. They're not being honest. What they've done is make a vegan proselytizing movie. They're trying to get people to join in because that's what they do. And a lot of these people, they give up. A lot of these people, they get to a point where their health can't take it anymore and they fucking give up.

Chris Kresser, he's a perfect example. I don't know if you – have you interviewed him for your film? Not yet, but we will. He's fucking brilliant. And he was a macro, he was a macrobiotic vegan. I mean, this guy was all off the charts with veganism and eventually realized his body was falling apart and gave up on it. There's some people that

own that restaurant in California, in Hollywood. What is it called? Something Cafe? Gratitude. Thank you. Cafe Gratitude? Yeah, I know about that. Yeah, these people these people were they mean their fucking health was falling apart so they decided to raise their own cattle and eat their own meat and Vegans found out they got death threats and people were fucking going after them. Yes, man It was a terrifying thing for these people

They're older folks and they they they have their own farm They were raising their own farm animals and they decided to start start eating them. And when they made these posts about starting eating, these people went after them, man. You know, it's not – this is not kindness and, you know, this is not someone who's compassionate. These are fucking cunts that are in a gang, and they're in the plant gang. You know, and if you talk – and I'm sure you've seen it by doing this carnivore diet thing. If you do anything that's outside of that they go after you yeah start jumping and just so everybody knows uh you keep mentioning uh you're not going to talk us into liking vegetables or whatever uh i i do eat vegetables occasionally if you have to well

no i would just say my way my ketogenic diet before i went on the carnivore diet was mainly a vegetarian like mostly vegetables. I would eat a lot of vegetables, big salads and all stuff. And I'd throw a little bit of meat in because I was very concerned about eating too much protein. So I'd only eat 80 to 100 grams of protein a day. Now I eat double that. And so that's sort of what the switch was. And it's just an intervention for now.

it's just an intervention for now. I feel that I used to think that the best healthiest diet for a human being would be a vegan diet with like three or four ounces of meat thrown in at every meal, you know, just to add the animal fat and animal protein. I thought like that would be really smart. Now I'm starting to think the opposite. I think front-loading your body with the nutrients that it needs, because our body's always in search for nutrients. That's why we're hungry. We're always searching for the nutrients that we need the vitamins and minerals that we need and all the macronutrients we need if we front load it first and give us a you know a chunk of nice steak your body's not hungry afterwards and i think that's what's happened to me where now i'm sort of giving my body what it needs and it never it's never asking for what it doesn't need i saw a comment the other day on one of those animal videos,

one of those horrible factory farming videos, said because of this video, I'm 60% vegan now with my diet. What the fuck? Exactly. What the fuck does that mean? But that's the type of morons we're dealing with here, people that are not looking at themselves or anything honestly. They're trying to stand on the moral high ground, if they know they eat meat they can't so they say

well i'm almost all vegan well okay well those poor little fucking cows you murder that 40 percent almost right everybody who eats a balanced diet 60 vegan that's ridiculous exactly i mean that's it's a ridiculous thing to say, but the problem is people, they're not just eating things. They're posturing. They're publicly posturing on their position on morals and ethics.

We see it all the time, yeah. In every aspect of fitness, we see it. Oh, yeah. You see it in all areas. But I think there's also a difference between survival and there's a difference between performance. And I think we're asking our bodies, all three of us at the table, we're asking our bodies to do some demanding things. So I think in that case, like maybe we do need a little bit more meat, especially if meat is going to be kind of our main driver of our calories. And it kind of makes sense that we would need a little bit more of that than maybe your average person.

And it kind of makes sense that we would need a little bit more of that than maybe your average person. So what you said about the three ounces of meat every couple meals probably makes sense and probably be great for survival. The other thing that's really interesting, though, is that even for those of us who have been trying to seek the truth and for those of us who have been trying to eat good and trying to train. And it's not like you're like, oh, there's Joe Rogan, 150 years old. Look at that fucking guy. You know, we still don't really, you know, you're not insuring anything, right? But you're trying to just live the life that you want to live the best way possible that you can live it. Yeah. If I live to be 150, those last couple of years are going to suck a fat dick.

Yeah. Last couple. Well, I mean, I'm not convinced that people won't in our lifetime. I mean, with science and fucking stem cells. I think they said right now, if you're born today, you have a chance of living to be 104. It's like that. 104? I'm going to live to be 104, bitch.

If I'm going to get killed or hit by a car or hit by an asteroid. But the thing is, you and I and a lot of other people listening, we started 30, 40 years in. You know what I mean? We started too late. I don't know when you started eating better, but I know that it wasn't your whole life, right? No, no, it wasn't my whole life. I was certainly in a high refined carbohydrate diet up until 10 years ago. Yeah.

I mean, I've really got into, I mean, I've always been supplementing with vitamins and I've been getting my blood work done for a couple decades now. But the real shift was switching to ketogenic. Do you know where the shift came from me? And you're probably not going to believe this. The shift came for me after going to a show where I first met you. Very time we first met. I don't even know if you remember it. It was outside the ice house in Pasadena.

And I came up to you and talked to you with Brian Callen and you were talking about diet and you were saying, man, I can't believe that people eat all this shit. And like, you know, you say every town I go to, the first thing I do is look for the whole foods and I find the whole foods and I go get my food. And I'm thinking like, man, I travel all the time. If Joe Rogan can do this, like, why am I not doing it? You know, why am I being so lazy with my diet? I'm so fat. Like what's going on? And that day actually really made me think about a lot and i i saw you as an inspiration oh that's cool man after that day i started really digging into it a lot more so well i spend a lot of time in hotels so what i would do is i would show up at a place on thursday and i'd be there till sunday you know

especially when i was doing comedy clubs on the road so i'd go to whole foods i'd stock up on kombucha i would get a bunch of healthy snacks, a bunch of raw almonds and things along those lines. So that way I had something in my hotel room all the time. So if I'm writing or getting done working out or something like that, I'm not eating candy bars. I'm not raiding the hotel mini bar and eating bullshit. That makes all the difference in the world, though. And that's how I travel now, too. I just have everything ready to go. Yeah. Bring yourself a big case of bottled water. Make sure you've got stuff in your room that can sustain you.

And if you're a carnivore, just bring some sardines in a can. Yes, I do a lot of that. I bring sardines. I bring oysters. I bring oysters with me. You're not going to believe this. My first sardine I've ever eaten was like two days ago, actually. What?

So because you guys talk about it so much, D'Agostino, we went and visited Dom D'Agostino and interviewed him. He just kept talking about these sardines. So I'm like, finally, I got to try it. They taste just like tuna fish. They're great. Sounds so gross. I can't believe you never had sardines.

They're awesome. They're great. It sounds gross? They sound gross, but I had them like about two weeks ago as well. Maybe a month or two ago. The Wild Planet ones? Yeah, Wild Planet. They have some good stuff. And sound gross, but I had them like about two weeks ago as well, maybe a month or two ago. The Wild Planet ones? Yeah, Wild Planet. They have some good stuff.

And olive oil, yeah. They also have mackerel and a bunch of other different things. I was used to the ones that my grandfather get where you like peel the can down, and then it was like these little fish in there. Those look too gross to me, so that's what I remember seeing as sardines. It's good, man. They're good. I like sardines. It's good, man. They're good. I like sardines. They're very healthy for you.

Well, one thing, though, I do have to say, I was eating a can or two a day, and then I found arsenic in my blood. That's right. I heard that. Yeah. And then the doctor was like, just lay off that. Let's do another test in a month. And then it was gone. And so it's just there's a lot of heavy metals in the water and they're low on the in the ocean floor

I mean they're down there with all that shit yeah speaking of fish and stuff like that I do think it's important for people to get some omega threes and if they are going to try a carnivore diet and a way to do that is either eat the grass fed beef or to add in some salmon so I add in salmon twice a week usually just pokey or

something like that just eat it eat it by itself. What about oils? What about just getting some fish oil and taking that in? So I like whole foods and I like things in the whole food environment. And the more I do research on things and look into it, the more I realize like the whole foods are really where it's at. So I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of studies on it and things

like that, but I just feel like, um, the, the way that I, the way that they make fish oil and the way that it sits around forever and stuff like that, I don't know. So I don't use it, you know? Um, one of the things I do use because I can't, I can't stand, uh, eating it. So I can stand to eat the fish. I like the fish. I like salmon. Um, I do not like liver, but beef liver is the highest in nutrients You want to talk about a superfood? It is like these true superfood way more than quinoa And there's so many nutrients in beef liver, but I don't like it So I take beef liver tablets or capsules or whatever. Oh, I love liver and those taste like it

I don't know that I don't like it. I don't know how to cook it So I've never actually made it all you do do is take a dusting of ketogenic flour, like almond flour or something like that. Put it on there and fry it in butter. Just fry it. Really? Yep. Slice that baby up thin. Fry it with onions.

Do you like onions? You're going to see a YouTube video then. Dude, I got some elk liver if you want to try that. That'll fuck him. If you think beef liver's strong, you take elk liver. You're like, yo. I had some liverwurst, and I thought it was pretty good. Well, yeah.

That's a different thing. I thought it was pretty good. It's good for you, too, though. Your buddy Kyle Kingsbury, he recommended the liverwurst, and I didn't want to do it. It's good. It's just like mixed in with other stuff or something, right? It's really good. I don't know what's in liverwurst.

That's a good question. It's liver and kidneys and hearts and all that stuff. Let's find out. Well, all those things are great. Organ meat is the best meat for you, and liver in particular. That's why wolves, when the alpha is established in the pack, the alpha will always eat the liver first. There was this crazy thing that this guy was doing where he was living with wolves, and he had established himself as the alpha in the pack.

And one of the ways he would do that, they would have a kill and he would plant a liver inside the kill. And then he would eat the liver and growl at all the other wolves. He would let them go because he's got the liver. But then he had to leave in order to help someone else. This guy had a farm that was being attacked by wolves. And so he set up some speakers and had some other wolves howl and essentially tried to convince these wolves that were killing these guys' animals that a new pack had been in town. And with these big speakers, these other wolves were like, holy shit, there's a lot of fucking wolves here. Let's get out of here.

And it literally worked. But he was gone for a while, I think for a couple months. And when he came back, the other wolves were like, fuck you, motherfucker. We're the alpha now. And he almost got killed by these wolves. It's terrifying to watch him whimpering in front of these wolves while these wolves are like inches away from him with their teeth. Like big fucking wolves, man.

Why did the guy do that? Well, he was doing studies on wolves and they were all contained in this large fenced-in area which is also highly criticized because there's some videos on YouTube that you can see of these wolves attacking this one beta wolf and one of the reasons why that behavior so accentuated is the fact that they are contained in a very small area I mean it's big in that it's a few acres but it's small in terms of what a wolf's natural roaming would be. They do say that animals tend to go for the liver, like they know about it.

So if you look at salmon, there'd be a bunch of salmon in a river, and there'd be a big chunk taken out of them, but the rest of the body would be there. And the reason was a bear would just basically rip out its liver, and that's what it was after. That's when it's like they're in full surplus. Yeah.

Or salmon everywhere. They just go. And it would go get four or five livers. Wow. You know, because it wanted to eat that. So it's like looking at the salmon almost like an egg. And that's the egg yolk. You know, that's the important part.

Yeah. Most animals, like most predatory animals, they go for the guts first. It's really weird. Yeah. And back in the day, I think when they used to kill things, they would say that even human beings were all the organs first oh yeah i mean organ meat kidney pie and shit like that i mean that was but they didn't know they were doing it for nutrition they just didn't want to waste anything no i think yeah i think you're right heart's great too i got some elk heart and then they probably went with what tasted better right

like eventually you know if the heart tasted great, they'd be like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah, the heart doesn't taste the best. The best is like backstrap, which is the loins or the tender loins, you know, which is the inside. That stuff is the most tender and a lot of people feel like it's the best. Some people, like in a cow, they like a New York strip. It's got a more richer taste. But most people don't find the liver to taste the best but it's just because it's a strong flavor i don't know i've always liked it i've

always liked liver and these beef liver desiccated beef liver capsules actually taste like a fart when you when you burp uh no just when when you take them you can drink as much water as you want you're always going to get that little like, oh. Well, you taste like a fart. Wow. When you eat the meat, it doesn't taste like that. When you eat the meat of the liver, it doesn't taste that bad. I don't think your diet should be high on farts. Ah.

No. Chris Kresser is a big proponent of organ meat. And he said, I mean, he had a bunch of autoimmune issues as well. And he said that eating liver and heart and kidneys and stuff like that, all that stuff really helped him tremendously. Yeah. I wish I liked liverwurst more. It's just not that – I don't like it that much. Just force yourself to eat it, man.

Force yourself to eat cow's liver. You don't really – the problem is you're getting calf's liver most of the time, which is kind of fucked up. I think, though, you're right. If you do force yourself to eat it, you end up actually liking it a lot. Sometimes. I think, though, you're right. If you do force yourself to eat it, you end up actually liking it a lot, you know, sometimes. You can eat it in a place that cooks it well. If you go to a really good restaurant that serves liver and onions, a good restaurant that serves it, it's delicious. It's just you've got to find someone who knows how to prepare it properly.

Yeah. Do you teach your kids to eat healthy, or is it just kind of like they just watch and they kind of pick off of some of the stuff? My kids eat everything. It's really unusual. They've been eating from the time they were really little. I started hunting in 2012. So for the last six years, they've been eating wild game. So from the time they were little, like my seven-year-old, she doesn't know anything different.

She's eaten beef for sure. She eats hot dogs and normal stuff that kids eat. But she's been eating elk and bear and deer and moose her whole life. She's eaten wild turkey. She's eaten basically all the different things that people hunt for. She's eaten since she was a little kid. You guys talk about nutrition at all? Yes, yes.

The other thing that my kids eat that's really spectacular to watch is they love kimchi, especially my youngest. She loves probiotics, which is crazy. Yeah, we give them probiotics in supplements. We give them probiotics in terms of yogurt and acidophilus and these little Bio-K formulas that are pretty rich, and they taste pretty good, too. There's some sugar in there, unfortunately. But getting your kids into really healthy probiotic foods, it's interesting. What's interesting is how quickly they snap back from colds,

how resistant they are to them, and how quickly they snap back for them because they have this healthy biome, this healthy immune system. Kimchi is one of my favorites. I had some kimchi today. I eat it almost every day. I get this.

There's a company called Mother-in-Law's Kimchi. It's my favorite. And I'll buy like five jars at a time, and I go through those fuckers in like two weeks You just eat it by itself. I eat kimchi with meat most of time I'll slice meat and put kimchi on it and the two of them together Don't people bury that shit like in their back yard or something Koreans do yeah They make a pot and it ferments and they buried in their back yard It's really good for your gut microbiome and the more we find out about that

That's why I was saying like what I'm doing is an intervention. I'm not going to just eat meat forever. Right. Because I, the next, the next step for me is once I get to the point where I feel like I'm lean enough to where I want to be, I still want to lose about,

you know, 10 pounds. Do you really? Yeah, I get leaner. You look pretty lean. I still have a lot of belly fat that's been around from drinking every day for years,

you know? So the upper abs come in, but then the lower abs are still you know so we gotta we gotta tighten that shit up other than peter luger going off the rails i've been on a strict diet for two weeks and i've lost five pounds what's your diet mostly just meat and vegetables that's mostly it any sort of uh rhyme or reason or you just eat as much as you want when you want or i got a little fat i got up to about 200 and that's when i'm fat and i like to be like right now i was 194 after my run so i'm probably like 196. it's amazing we weigh the same exact weight 194 this morning yeah just became best friends oh my god did we just become yeah i like to be i think if i'm really if i'm shredded

i'm down at about 192. That's when I think I'm really, so I think I need, I could lose another four pounds. I think being mindful is a key factor. You know, that you're like, oh, I'm getting fat. Hold yourself to a standard. I tell people all the time, try to be made of something different. The only way I know how to like build up any self-esteem or, you know, build up self-respect or any of these things is through training or through diet.

I can't really do it through a business meeting. I can't do it just through reading a book. You can get motivated by watching a YouTube video or something, but that lasts you a couple hours. Maybe it lasts you for the week. Maybe it helps point you in the right direction, which is cool. Well, the thing about it for martial arts, especially for striking, is when you lose weight, you move faster. It's like if I went out there and hit the bag and I put a 40

pound weight vest on, strapped that fucker in, I would feel slower. I just would. There's no way around it. Well, even 10 pounds makes a difference. When I used to fight, one of the things that I noticed when I would get down close to my weight class is I just moved quicker because I was carrying around less weight. I felt like

it was less to move around. My muscles are essentially as strong. I probably lost a little bit of muscle when you lose weight, but most of it was there. But my body weight was down several pounds, and I would just move quicker. It must be tough as a fighter to gauge that too, though, like when you lose too much.

Maybe you almost want to avoid food to feel faster. You see that with a lot of UFC fighters. When they get down too low in weight, they just can't perform properly. I think there's a real issue with MMA, and that issue is there's not enough weight classes. I feel very,

very, very strongly about this. I think there's giant gaps. Like, 185 to 205 drives me fucking crazy. It's a 20-pound gap. That's a tough area, too, because guys can be so muscular at that weight or skinny. It depends on how tall they are or whatever. But it's really like what is your optimal. And the idea that people would fit in between that 20-pound optimal either this way or that way is crazy.

Because those 205 guys, a lot of them could be heavyweight. It's like Jon Jones. Jon Jones could be the heavyweight champion of the world, 100%. No doubt about it. He's a savage. No fucking doubt about it. Yet, he still weighs 205 when he fights and he doesn't have a hard time making that weight. Now, if you're a guy like, say, Hector Lombard, who's fought at 170 and just really packs

a lot of meat on and he fights at 185, when he fights at 185, he's also fought at 205 before, I believe. If he decided to fight at 205 and Jon Jones decides to fight at 205, I mean, Hector's my height. And Jon Jones towers over me. So you're looking at just a totally different body size, totally different frame. That 20 pounds is too much, man. And then from 205 to heavyweight, you could get some Brock Lesnar motherfucker or Francis Ngannou who has to cut weight to make 265.

Francis is even more impressive, right? Because he's natural. He's not even barely lifting weights. That guy's just a fucking gigantic super athlete. So that guy doesn't really lift? No. He got that big from working in a fucking sand mine oh my god this is i mean he literally is like conan the barbarian from the

robert e howard see nigerian he is from cameroon i believe right i think that's where he's from he there's videos of him on his instagram from yesterday of him back in the same sand mine. And he's wearing his fucking Reebok jersey with his name on the back of it, digging sand with all the guys he used to work with. It's fucking crazy. But that is hard labor. And there he is. Do that all day? Dig fucking sand all day?

You know how fucking strong you would be? that all day dig fucking sand all day you know how fucking strong you would be just carrying 20 pound hunks of sand and shoving them onto the top of that truck all day long efficient he's a beast well he's uh he's got tremendous genetics his father is built like him too there's a picture of him on his instagram when he was three years old standing next to his father and you look at his dad you're like oh jesus like the apple in the tree there they are baby you think he's going to be pretty dangerous coming up like the only issue with francis is his wrestling and his in his endurance and this is just based on his fight with stipe miocic who in my opinion is the best heavyweight ever i think if you look at what stipe has managed to do in his career uh he's defended the title more than anybody he knocked

out fabrizio verdun was one of the best ever. He knocked out Alistair Overeem. He beat Francis Ngannou, who everybody was fucking terrified of. And Francis has been blowing everybody out of the water, including Alistair Overeem. I just think, and knocked out Junior Dos Santos, also former heavyweight champion. I think Stipe's the best of all time.

So when, you know, Stipe's able to beat you, and beat you by using his wrestling, and using his octagon intelligence and just his overall fight IQ. He just knows how to fight better. He's just got more tools in the toolbox. Francis can learn. And he's an incredible athlete. And what he has over everybody is power.

He has more power in his punch. We have a machine out there called the Power Cube, and that machine, Francis registered the highest ever power punch by like 10,000 units, whatever the fuck that means. So Tyrone Spong, who's a super powerful heavyweight boxer, he scored like 119, I think it was,

or 114, and then Francis scored 129. 129,000. And you see it when he hits people. And that's about what you kick, right? You should kick a little bit more than that. So that's like getting kicked in the face. I hold the record right now until somebody beats me.

There you go. I hold the record 152, 152 from a kick. But again, look at the size of my legs. Of a leg, yeah. Carrying around 196 pounds all day. Running hills with 196 pounds. Try doing fucking handstands and running up a hill with handstands you just can't your arms are not that strong

and also you know i've been kicking my whole life he's really only been training mma for five years yeah so he's just he's fun to watch he's amazing to watch it's like an old tyson fight yeah even the match even the fight with uh steepipe was kind of scary because he just kept getting back up. Oh, yeah. It was like watching Mike Myers, like a horror movie

or something. Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger or something just kept coming back. Doesn't have the wrestling experience. Doesn't have the

wrestling technique. But what he has is incredible heart and desire and he's very hungry to learn. And I'm very hopeful that he's going to learn

and I really, really hope that he incorporates um a real rigorous wrestling program because that was one thing that was lacking from his last uh his last training camp when he fought for steepa i think ufc needs a 300 and up club i think so you know to have that have that weight class and then have them only fight for a minute and rest for like five minutes well there's not the issue is there's not enough fighters yeah there's not enough guys you know but not enough big boys yeah maybe you just like put you saw it on the back burner for about 265 like guys listen you do whatever you want oh hmm you know uh you know i'm i'm hopeful that francis still i mean he's a little older in terms of like being this new to the sport at 33.

You know, I mean, really didn't even start training until he was 28, which is kind of crazy. He was homeless. Yeah. I mean, you want to talk about an amazing story that's like right out of a movie. The guy was homeless, came from Africa where he worked in a fucking sand mine and then gets to the number one contender spot in the UFC. But there's guys now like

Alexander Volkov. Volkon? Volkov. Volkov. The guy who just knocked out Fabrizio Verdum. This is a giant guy. He's a huge... I think he's this this is a giant guy like he's a huge i think he's six seven jeez yeah and incredibly skillful so there's there's these guys that are coming up that are like at the higher

end of the weight class how do you say his last name volkov right i always get confused because russians say things with russian. I was under Volkov. Volkov. Yeah. Volkov is. Six foot seven. Yeah. Find out if that's the case, if he is that tall. He is?

He's six, seven. Yeah. He's incredibly long and efficient, and he has real power. And he's hard to hit, man. But his game is so well-rounded. The difference between him and a guy like Francis is he's not new to the game. I mean, he's a giant guy who's been fighting for a long fucking time. So he is a real efficient martial artist.

When he fought Fabrizio Verdun, I could tell early on these striking exchanges, like, wow, Fabrizio might be in trouble. Like, this guy, he's long. He knows how to stay on the outside. And he knows he's got an excellent sense of distance. And he's got legit knockout power. He fucked Fabrizio up, man. That was hard to watch. It was like, wow, this guy, he's legit.

It's amazing these longer body types have been so good. Anderson Silva, Bones Jones. A lot of these guys, I wouldn't think that. You'd think someone maybe shorter or stockier can get in the inside. But being long seems like a huge advantage. Did you see Zabit Saturday night? Yeah, it was a great fight. Magomed Sharapov.

Say that five times fast. Like I said before we came on the podcast, as soon as he came on, I'm going 6'2", 145. You couldn't find a skinnier guy, I thought. And then I saw him fight, and and man, he was just so impressive. But fast and strong at 145 and 6'2". I guess Hoyce was, you know, he wasn't real tall, but he was like 6'1", right? But he was 175. And, you know, he was obviously fighting in the unlimited class.

And he was fighting guys like Dan Severn at the time, who was, you know, 265. His abit is thin, but he's got muscle on him. Yes. Like, he's kind of jacked. Like, when you look at him, he's... He's got, like Zabit is thin, but he's got muscle on him. He's kind of jacked when you look at him. He's got a perfect frame. He's almost like a little tiny Luke Rockhold in a lot of ways, but with a way more dynamic game. He could

do everything, that guy. He was really interesting to watch. It's the first time I ever saw him fight. Dude, that guy is fucking phenomenal. He's so talented. That was the first time I saw him fight live. It's a different thing when you see someone live. You see someone in a video and you go, live. And it's a different thing when you see someone live. Like you see someone in a video and you go, wow, that guy's good. But then you see him live.

And, you know, your brain has like a little computer where it's seeing or, you know, you've got a database, especially me. I've seen so many fights. I have a database of how people move. And then you see that guy move and you're like, whoa, what are we looking at here? Because I love seeing that. I love seeing this next level shit that next level thing like whether it's you know connor or whether it's uh tyron woodley or there's every now and then you see next level and you go oh like tyron woodley to me

he fought carlos condit and it was a moment in the condit fight where he stepped forward and snapped carlos with a straight right hand i was was like, whoa, that's like 10% faster than it should be. You know what I mean? Like you get used to world-class athletes moving, and then you see someone like Edson Barbosa switch kick. That's another one. You're like, whoa, whoa, baby. You know?

But to me, the biggest example of that is Nurmagomedov's wrestling. Khabib takes everybody. Everybody who's good. Rafael dos Anjos, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt world champion, ragdolls him. Ragdolls everybody. Michael Johnson. I mean, no matter who he fights. He ragdolled this guy in the beginning, and I thought it was over right away.

I was like, oh, this is over. But Iaquinta did really well. Did very well. Well, the thing about Iaquinta did really well. Did very well. Well, the thing about Iaquinta is he's a legit crazy person. Like, that guy's crazy. He trashes hotel rooms. He's like, you look in his eyes like, oh, there's only like... He is the guy.

There's only like a couple people home. There's not a full village in that head. That's not a good example. But what I'm saying is he's a legit maniac and he's not scared. He'll fight anybody. You could wake him up at 3 o'clock in the morning and he'll fight anybody. He did crazy. He was screaming.

He was running around the hotel lobby the day when we found out that Max Holloway could not make weight. By the way, I shouldn't say could not make weight. I believe Max would have made the weight. The New York State Athletic Commission, which they made some big errors. And I can go into detail with a couple of them.

One of them is they wouldn't let Paul Felder fight. Paul Felder wanted the fight. They said he's not ranked. Paul Felder is a fucking killer. He is a straight-up killer. And him versus Khabib would have been a very interesting fight because Paul is a big 155 he's very big and very strong and he is an expert world-class striker I mean Paul Felder is a dangerous dangerous man for anybody at 155 pounds and he's a ground and pound expert he's also got very good defense in in everything very good defense standing up very

good defense on the ground he felt mean, Felder's fucking well rounded. I would have been very intrigued in that fight. And they offered it to Felder. Felder said, fuck yeah. And then the Nevada or the New York State Athletic Commission said no. I was like, you guys are out of your fucking minds. You don't know shit about fighting if you don't think that guy could fight for the title.

Because Paul might be fighting for the title in a year from now or whenever. I mean, he's fucking world class. So the fact that they don't know that, and they're saying, well, based on the rankings. Well, the rankings are horseshit. They're arbitrary. They're made by a bunch of people that I think a lot of times are biased. They have terrible judgment. Sometimes a guy will fuck a guy up and then you look at the rankings and he's below that guy.

He just fucked up in the rankings. Explain that. There is no other way to tell if a guy's better than who he fucked up. And they're saying well his past experience suck fat dicks that fat that past experience doesn't mean anything this guy just beat this guy guy beat the guy who beat the guy that guy beat him well if he was number one now he's number one that's how it goes you can't get knocked out still be number one that's fucking bananas and this is often the case we see a guy beat a guy and he's still below the guy in the rank. He's like,

what the fuck else can he do? But beat the guy. How did they end up getting Iaquinta then? They just asked him. He was the next guy in line? He's on a four or five fight win streak and he's beaten some very good guys like Jorge Masvidal, Ross Pearson.

He's beaten some legit guys. Look, Iaquinta can bang, and he's tough as shit, and he's got a wrestling background, which I think played a big factor in that fight. Obviously, he was greatly outclassed by a guy who I think is one of the greatest lightweights of all time. And now that he's the champion, I'm very interested in seeing. But I think what we saw in that fight that was very intriguing was the fact that Iaquinta was able to get back up. And that Iaquinta was one of the few guys that Nurmagomedov has ever fought that has stuffed a bunch of takedowns and then into the late rounds.

And this is a guy in Al that didn't even prepare for a five-round fight. He was getting ready for a three-round fight with Paul Felder. So, I mean, fucking props to Al Iaquinta. I mean, fucking animal. Yeah, great job. That was awesome. Animal. And major props to that Kyle Bokniak kid that fought Zabit.

That kid's fucking savage. Because he ate everything. He was smiling. Getting punched in the face. Smiling and coming on at the end of the fight. The end of three rounds of a clinic. I mean, Zabit put on a clinic. He did everything.

Jump spinning back kicks, roundhouse kicks, switch kicks. He hit him with a switch kick that was like, Jesus! Bokniak took a couple to the neck, and still kept coming, still kept coming. Blood coming out of his nose, his mouth, he's screaming at him, sticking his tongue out at him. And then Zabit

is like, what the fuck do I gotta do to this guy? And at the end of it, Bokniak's got him pinned up against the cage and he's throwing bombs. It was crazy. The whole place, the entire Barclays Center on their feet. Yeah, you were going nuts. Fuck, I stood up. You were pumped.

I stood up, and I was screaming and clapping. It was phenomenal. Phenomenal. That's what I love. And that was, in my mind, that was worth the price of admission for the whole pay-per-view card. That was the best fight, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But to see Al do that just shows you

that, you know, Al is a legit world-class fighter. I mean, definitely he's not on the level of Khabib, but nobody thought he was coming in. I think it was, in a lot of ways, an upset just the fact that he was able to go to the distance. And you see what Khabib did to so many other fighters. I mean, he mauled everybody

else. And he mauled Al for a lot of the fight. I mean, look, the guy's the best wrestler at 155 ever. I mean, ever. He does things to world-class guys that makes you just confused because he's not. It's like there's certain guys that are doing things like Yair Rodriguez is a perfect example. He does wild shit.

He does, like, jump 360 roundhouse kicks. He 360 roundhouse kicks BJ Penn in the face. And you're like, what the fuck? So this is like a guy doing something to the other guy where the other guy just can't do that. He can't move that way. Nurmagomedov is doing standard stuff, but he's doing it at such a high level

that he makes world-class fighters question their career. I mean, he takes them and mauls them, and they have a different sense of where they fit in the universe. It's crazy to see somebody come back from that when they're getting a shit beat at them. They're getting hit so hard. You're like, what makes you? I've had some fighters and stuff that I've talked to in the past. A lot of times they don't even know how fucking batshit crazy they are. I did pro wrestling for a handful of years.

And when I was wrestling, a lot of times we'd share the ring and so on. And a lot of times the UFC or the fighters, they would say, you guys are fucking crazy. What are you guys doing in there? Fucking jumping off the top rope. I'm like, we're crazy. The thing you're doing is fucking out of this world. Well, I've goofed around about pro wrestling before but my honest feelings all bullshit aside

this is one of the toughest professions in all of entertainment it's brutal it is unbelievably difficult it is gay though that's why I was in it just for the gay stuff

exactly it's not you know it's not a sport it's entertainment but you have to be incredibly athletic to do some of the shit

they do and the beating those guys take in terms of their body, it's very underappreciated because you just watch it and you go, oh, it's not real. They're not really fighting. But no, they're really hitting each other with chairs. They're really jumping off the top rope and slamming

each other. I mean, all the crazy shit that they do, the toll those guys take on their body is unbearable. Like what we're seeing about Kurt Angle. Like that guy has gone through a fuckload. I mean, see if you can find that picture. I think it's on Ronda Rousey's Instagram page. Ronda Rousey with Kurt Angle at the end of their match.

And you're looking at it. He's probably 50. He won an Olympic gold medal with a broken neck. And he's still going. Did he win a gold medal? His neck was broken when he won the Olympics? Yeah, broken freaking neck. Not like broken in half.

It was fractured. He had a fracture in his neck, and he still won. What the fuck, man? He wasn't supposed to wrestle, I think. No, no, not that one. That was a good one, but the one with... I don't know how he got cleared. They've got their arms raised.

Is it on hers? Maybe it's not. There it is, right there. Look at that. Look at his arms, man. Yeah, the atrophied. Yeah, look at that left arm. I mean, that's crazy. It looks like, no offense, Jamie.

It looks like Jamie's arm. Jamie, you got big arms. You do have big arms. I mean, you do. But you have big arms for a normal guy. He's a goddamn gorilla. Normal? Yeah, for a normal.

Well, you're athletic. You're a well-built guy. I'm not saying anything bad, but I'm saying that for the size of what he used to look like, go back, look at the size of his fucking neck. Dude, what is that thing right below his ear? What is that? That's his neck. What is that?

That's fucking crazy. Dude, that's like he's got a gopher living in his neck. You know, the way those guys train their neck is crazy. The way they do the bridges and shit. That shit's not good for you, man. I don't think so. It's not. There's an article about that recently where they were describing like the dangers of neck bridging yeah you know it does

strengthen your neck well wrestling they do a lot of shit that's not great for you i don't think right it's kind of part of the par for the course right with collegiate style wrestling do you ever fuck with that iron neck i like it yeah love that i like it i used it before i love that i used it before some deadlifts the other day and and I felt stronger, legitimately felt stronger. Oh, it's phenomenal. I actually used it and didn't know that I had an issue with my neck until I used it. And then after I used it, I'm like, wait a second, I can turn my head all the way now. So I think it's great.

Well, one of the things about it is the range of motion that it gives you. And for grapplers, I think it is mandatory. I think it's a mandatory thing. I fuck my neck up for a bunch of reasons. One, from being an idiot and not tapping. Two, from getting injured and still training. But three, because one of my biggest moves is the arm triangle. So in the arm triangle, when you get a head and arm choke, when I got the guy's arm trapped here, I'm using my neck.

So I'm constantly pinning things down with my neck and you know you're rolling for a fucking hour a night or whatever it is it's a lot of pressure you're putting on your neck and then defending things with your neck and everything gets inflamed and everything's injured and you get these little micro injuries that never really heal because you're back training again yeah that iron neck thing works great though i think uh we both looked at it kind of skeptical when we first saw it and then then the guy did a demo for us, and we both used it and thought it was really cool. I put on this weird helmet. It looks weird.

In the beginning, you're like, what is this thing? And then it works great. But, I mean, even one of those harnesses with a weight, just anything where you're just constantly conditioning your neck. I mean, your neck needs a workout. It really does. That's when you know you're serious about trainings when you have a fucking neck harness. Yeah, man. Yeah.

I've always had one. Back in the day. I'm a big believer in working out your neck. You know, and John Jock Machado, my jiu-jitsu instructor, there's a very famous quote. He says, never trust your neck. Yeah, never trust your neck. You know, like if you think that, you know, if someone's choking you, it it's like don't just think that your neck is strong enough to handle it. Fuck that Protect your neck. Yeah, Kurt angle looks like he's got over a 20 inch neck or something

Yeah, looks like it's pushing his head off his fucking shoulders. It's yeah, it's like two of my thighs holding his fucking head up But I mean, it's probably just to support his neck with all the injuries that the guys had Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he's got fused discs or something going on up there, right? Does he? Yeah, he had surgery a couple times. He actually, you know, he was addicted to drugs. Now he's doing a big thing on sobriety. And he was heavily addicted to, like, opioids for a long time.

And he actually got – Wow, those guys are. He actually went to the point where, I believe, it was a situation where it was either the drugs or he gets fired. And he basically got fired from WWE or released or whatever happened. But sort of went down a really bad road. And it's just good to see him back and back being as healthy as he can be at this point. Because he went through a really rough time.

I loved your documentary, Prescription Thugs. Thank you and i've shown it and recommended it to so many people i just think we live in a crazy time you're you're hearing all the time someone's cousin my brother this guy my mom people get injured they get on pills and then they wind up dying or they go down that road and they become addicts yeah it's it is a fucking not so silent but epidemic in this country and a lot of people feel completely helpless because they're getting prescribed these things by their doctor so they think they should take them and then you know you watch your friend drift away i mean it happened to one of my family members i watched my family member go from being a normal guy to being a total fucking loser and it's just because he hurt his back and he got hooked on pills and the next thing you can't keep a job And he's always on the pills and he never did shit when I knew him. I grew up with this kid

He was totally normal and now he's all fucked up and it's just he's still messed up. Yeah, he's still fucked up He doesn't he doesn't want to get sober. Is that the thing? I can't I can't I don't know what to do You know, you can't you can't hold someone's hand hand you can't you can't i mean he lives in boston i can't fly to boston and fucking hold his hand yeah sure no we have we have a cousin who's an alcoholic and um and he's in his 30s you know he needs a liver transplant and and he still goes and drinks in his fucking 30s yeah and um damn you know and it's just a shame because we love him's our cousin. But there's nothing that we can do to help him. I've tried to help him so many times, even offering to bring him out here to go to rehab for free because of the people I know. And he didn't take me up on it.

And that kind of thing is crazy. We lost our uncle. We lost our brother, too, from this kind of thing. And it's brutal, man. It is brutal. It runs rampant. It does. And it's so easy for people to get lost. I mean, Schaub broke his nose in the Crow Cop fight.

Crow Cop smashed his nose with an elbow, and he had to get his nose reconstructed. And when he got his nose reconstructed, they put him on pills. Next thing you know, he's taking those pills all day long, and it's four months later, and his buddies grabbed him, and they went to his house, and they opened up his medicine cabinet. They threw everything away, and they go, this is it. It's over. You're not doing this anymore, man You're fucking he's like you're right. You're right and he went cold turkey

Yeah And it thought luckily Brendan is a strong guy Mentally and he got off of it and that was it and he likes to talk about it because it's it's an important thing because he Goes I would have never thought that I would get addicted to drugs. It's such a sickness I remember the last the last time i did percocet uh was at a ucla usc game and i took a bunch of them because i'm like i'm gonna be sitting through this game the whole time i'll take the whole bottle i took 30 of them with me to this game 30 30 pills with me to this game this is even gets even better i sit down in my seat and right behind me is the doctor who runs the, who owns the clinic where I got my surgery done.

And meanwhile, I'm high, like super high talking to this doctor the whole time on the pills that he prescribed to me. You know, I did 30 pills during that game. You know, that's crazy. Did the doctor know that you were pilled up? I mean, he would have had to know. I mean, I don't know, but it's kind of like it was a weird situation. But, you know, getting off those pills was necessary. It would have ended my life for sure.

Now, if you had gotten a surgery tomorrow, like say what if your hip fucked up and they had to go back and redo it, would you take the pain pills? I would take the painkillers as long as I was in the hospital, like whatever, whatever I'm supervised. Wouldn't you be scared though, that you would now jump right back in? You think that's over? I don't think it works that way. You know, like I don't, I don't think it'd be, you know, a trigger. Um, but I w I wouldn't take them at home. I'd use Kratom or something else. Uh, and, and who knows, I don't know how good Kratom would work after a surgery. Right, right, right. Who knows?

We don't know how it works. Kratom did help you, right? Helps me phenomenally every single day, yeah. My friend Cam's on that stuff, too. He had a real problem with ibuprofen for a while. And then Dr. Rhonda Patrick did a podcast with me where she was talking about the dangers of ibuprofen and all the different real severe side effects that people have. It ruins your gut microbiome. It ruins your libido and your sperm count, too.

Well, the gut microbiome was really fascinating because it causes inflammation, and he was dealing with inflammation issues. So he'd wake up, his hips would hurt, his feet would hurt, his knees would hurt. So he'd take 800 milligrams of ibuprofen. He would do it several times a day. That's what I was doing. But it was a cycle. So that was what was causing the inflammation because it was fucking up his gut microbiome.

So he gets off of it. And then he calls me and he's like, you can't fucking believe this, man. He goes, I'm off of it and all my pain's gone. He kept running because he's an animal. He runs every day. So he said, the pain's gone. He's like, the pain was being caused by the inflammation that was caused by ibuprofen. Like, holy fucking shit

And he just thanked me he's like if it wasn't for Rhonda Patrick I you know who not mean people get strokes they have all sorts of fun You're not supposed to take that mean it's fine if you take it I got a headache take a little ibuprofen you'll be fine It's not gonna kill you But if you take that shit 800 milligrams a day for a couple of years who the fuck knows what's gonna do to you your Body's not designed for non-steroidal anti-inflammatories on a daily basis on very high doses over and over and over and over and over.

And they say if you combine the Advil, the ibuprofen, and the acetaminophen, that it works even better. So that's what I was doing. I would take about eight Advil a day and eight Tylenol a day. So I'm killing not only my liver, but my kidneys also. And I've known a lot of people that have had transplants because of that whoa um have a kidney transplant because they're taking too much ibuprofen now um your documentary a leaf of faith you're still doing that we finished it yeah it comes out on

may 29th and that's all about kratom yeah it's all about kratom it's sort of a it's really about my experience with kratom it's about my journey you know like hey i was this guy who lifted weights and did all these things and yeah got hurt and this is what happened to me and i just i sort of tell the story and then as i tell the story i go out and discover you know is kratom good or bad for you and we talked to we talked to both sides of the issue we talked to the congress people that are trying to ban it we talked to the ones that are trying to save it well they're calling it an opiate now yeah they call it they definitely call it it was a real recent there's a recent redefinition of the show that you and i did um and in the movie you'll see it it's very pivotal like what what you do is awesome with this podcast by the way but what we

what we were able to do from that show is like basically you kept kratom legal uh without even knowing it. So we did the podcast. And then after the podcast, at the end of the podcast, you said, Hey, if anybody wants to help, where can they go? And I said, they go on this website and they leave comments for the DEA. Well, 23,000 people, or maybe 24,000 people, I can't remember, left comments after your podcast. That's amazing. The DEA said, whoa whoa wait a second we can't make this illegal there's people go crazy but what did they do recently they definitely reclassified it's not totally illegal that was the fda not the dea so the fda came out and why um because okay so here's

why really realistically why calls creative an opioid and warns against using the supplement. I'll tell you why. Because they're cunts, right? No. No, no, not at all. The FDA is doing the right thing here. What? How dare you? Who are you? What have you done with Chris Bell?

I'll tell you why. A lot of people are marketing Kratom the wrong way. They're packaging it the wrong way, and they are not testing it. And when they're not testing it, you have things like a salmonella outbreak i heard about that hurt you know put 28 people or something in the hospital some i forget how many people but there was a salmonella outbreak and that's because a company uh buys kratom from overseas from like indonesia they get it shipped here and they don't test it for contaminants you know so the the company that I did the film with, a company called Urban Ice, they test all their products for contaminants three times during the process. You know you own a supplement company.

You know how it works. You have to test your shales. Independently. It's very important. Third-party independent testing. And that's what people aren't doing. And so they're trying to make – so they make it cheaper. And then the companies that are doing it, that screws them because now they they got to try to make their product cheaper to keep up with other people.

But they're paying for the testing each time. Well, the supplement business is almost on the honor system. You know, it's really crazy. You know, my friend Aubrey, who I'm partners with and on it, he was explaining to me how those big dick pills work. Yeah. You know, when you buy them at the gas station, the hard-on pills. He's like, those pills, most of them have Cialis or Viagra in them. Yeah.

And so they get busted. Somebody busts them. And then once they bust them, they go, oh, sorry. They change the name of the company. They sell it again. And then they get busted again. And they just keep doing this. There's a little shuffle.

We're in the same thing with the Kratom industry, basically. So what else is in Kratom? If you buy Kratom somewhere, what could it possibly be other than Kratom? Does that happen sometimes? Yeah, and there's different... It actually happened in Sweden to the point where people died. So in Sweden,

they put fentanyl in with Kratom. Jesus Christ. And nine people died. And I don't want to scare people off of taking it, because I use it every day. Well, what's the company that you use? Because that was the guy that you brought on the podcast. Urban Ice Organics, that company. Urban Ice Organics.

Yeah. That stuff I've used and it's great. Yeah. Their website's naturalorganics with an X on the end,.com. What's interesting to me, too, is that in low doses, it's actually kind of a stimulant, almost like a cup of coffee. Yeah. But in high doses, it's more relaxing.

Yeah. Do you take it? I take it occasionally. Yeah. We have some in the back. Yeah. I thought we sent you some. Yeah, you did.

Yeah. And I thought, because the thing is that not everybody is in pain, but a lot of people feel stress. Stress is a big deal. And Kratom really helps people with anxiety, PTSD, and stress If someone has anxiety, like how many pills do they take for anxiety? I take two at a time. I think that's the problem we're getting into. I can't really tell people that stuff because that's like illegal according to FDA.

Now I can because I'm a filmmaker, right? So I would say take two. But for the most part, like a company can't tell you that. Like, you know, you as the owner of Onnit can't say, take this many pills and this will, like, take this much AlphaBrain and it'll do this for your brain. Because you say the wrong thing and the FDA is all over your ass, right? So that's an issue.

Like, the way that Kratom needs to be marketed is like, basically, the way that supplements are supposed to be marketed is you know that you're taking it for a specific response, but the FDA doesn't let you tell people that, which is just really screwed up too. Cause I think that that's a problem. It's like an issue, you know, like you should be able to say what it does. The problem is people make way too many health claims. So with Kratom,

they make the health claim that it will cure opioid addiction. And that's a huge claim to make. And it's a ridiculous claim to make. It can help somebody get over an opioid addiction. And that's a huge claim to make. And it's a ridiculous claim to make. It can help somebody get over an opioid addiction. But to say it cures an opioid addiction or to say that it even will cure your pain or help your pain, those are bigger claims than supplements are allowed to make. And that's the issue with people coming down on it. That is the thing like what helps you over an addiction. There's so many factors. First of all,

there's genetics. Some people have a genetic propensity for addiction. It's just a fact. It runs in their family. And I don't know if that's nature or nurture,

because I don't have it in my family, but some people do. I know people, they drink one drink and they get fucking gerbilized and they're off to the races. They're gone.

They disappear. You know people like that, right? Yeah, and there was a big difference. My dad and there was a big difference. My dad says there was a big difference between our brother Mike and me and the way that we did it. So I sort of fell into it, but Mike was kind of always that way. You fell into it because of surgery?

Because of surgery. Right, and constant pain because of you have rheumatoid? Mike fell into it because he was in osteoarthritis. Osteoarthritis, okay. Our brother, Mad Dog, he fell into it because he was an animal. Right. He was always that guy. Partying and fucking, yeah.

Yeah, he was, you know, the guy who's like the king of the school, the head of everything. That was Mad Dog. He was always, you know, always in charge, always had the most friends, was super popular, you know. But there was something, some void inside, something missing that would turn them to drugs and alcohol. Man, it's like when you know someone that has that, it is such a helpless feeling because it's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. I first experienced it when I was in high school. My dad was an architect, and I got a lot of gigs over the summer working on construction sites. And so I would hang out with a lot of these guys

that were carpenters and laborers and this one guy that i worked with is a great guy but he couldn't fucking lay off the coke yeah he couldn't he would get clean he's like this is it i'm getting my band together i'd be like that's awesome man good for you and then he'd come in hung over fucked up like it just looks like he had the flu and it's dark yeah it's dark and he couldn't stop he keep going back to it i used yeah it's dark and he couldn't stop keep going back to it i used to go in my bathroom in the morning hung over every day look in the mirror and go who the fuck are you right like what is that fat gross wrinkly old dude doing in the mirror like what happened to you your your movie was 96 on rotten tomatoes about about steroids and

and health and and trying to figure out if this is good or bad for you and now you are just a fucked up drug addict and i would just cry and i had nothing like nowhere to turn i felt like i couldn't tell my parents because they just experienced it i felt like i couldn't tell my brother because he's in the fitness and training and he's gonna be like come on dude snap out of it you know that's on, pussy. It's what I thought, but what I thought didn't happen. As soon as Mark found out about it, he said, come here, give me a big hug and say, we're going to help you. And I think that's most people's fear is that it's going to be really bad, but I should tell everybody it's going to be really, really good when you come out that other side. My wife was a big part of it, and the advice I always give and we try to always give is just don't give up on people you can't you don't want to overextend yourself because you are going to get fucked over

by people that are addicts you will get screwed over um but you just tell them hey whenever you're ready i'm here to help whatever way i can help if i can help financially if i can help uh you know whatever way i can help i'm here to help just let them know and in that way you can always at least feel good that you you at least did uh some of your part there and with him my wife was like we got to get him the hell out of los angeles we live in sacramento she's like we got to get him up here so we flew him up just so you can keep an eye on him not that sacramento's not without its temptations 100 100 just just uh not be on his own was the main thing so he doesn't have any family down here and stuff and so we did that and took him under our wing and, you know, got him lifted and the diet.

I think everything. Yeah. I think everything helped get him to where he is now. I'm so proud of him. It's unbelievable. It sounds kind of dorky, you know, in some way because he's my bro. No, it's great. We're supposed to talk shit about each other all the time, you know.

But I am really proud of him and he's been an idol of mine since, you know i was a little kid he's the reason why i lift he's the reason why i lift so hard and he'll get motivated by me and he'll say dude i saw you doing that crazy shit he's like i'm gonna go in and deadlift but it's really him that's motivating me he's the driver of a lot of this well um you you really do look a lot healthier than when i first met you looks really cool thank you both i'm getting showered in praise over what I'm able to do. When I saw you today, I was like, you look good, man. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it.

You know how someone, you see them and they just look vibrant? Yeah. You could tell when someone's healthy. It's awesome. When he first started getting sober, it was hard. He was losing weight. He was doing everything good, but he still was getting sick all the time, and he looked sickly.

I was like, man, is he telling me the truth? Is he really doing okay? And it took time. It took a long time. The best thing for me is being able to give back and being able to come on this podcast. And I know after this podcast, I'm going to get hit up on social media a million times. And it'd be like, bro, I'm dying. I'm sick.

I'm drunk right now. I'm crying. And I'll be like, call me. And I'll call these people. That's awesome. I'll literally call them. And I say, I can't even believe I'm talking to you. And I'm like, I'm just a normal dude. Yeah, it's the trick of the microphone, right? Yeah. And so what's really beautiful is being able to help these people and then forgetting about these people because there's so many of them there's hundreds of emails and texts and things that poor so you you you help them and then you move on to the next guy but then three or four months later you get this you know thank you letter

you know that that says like hey I completely turn my life around I'm completely fine now you know and I'm sure some of them still go the other way and you can't save everybody and you can't help everybody but you sure can try you know well you definitely make an impact and podcasts like this always make an impact there's people out there that are listening right now and they might be in their car they might be sitting at home just trying to figure out what the fuck to do with their life sometimes all people need is that little extra juice that little extra motivation that they get from hearing somebody like yourself that's gone through it

and came out on the other side healthy. And like, fuck, if he was crying, looking in the mirror and feeling like shit, and he was addicted to drugs, and he came from a healthy background, and he came from a background where he was making a documentary about health. When it got really bad, you know, when you start drinking in the morning, it's really bad. And alcohol became the worst part of it, worse than even the pills. And I just remember they start selling alcohol in LA at 6 AM. And I remember I used to live right across from Gold's Gym in Venice. And I get up and I

walk across the street at like 545 because my car was parked. I had to park across the street right by the gym. I walk across the street right by the gym. I walked across the street over by the gym and I'd see my friends going into the gym for a workout and they'd be like, hey, Chris, what's going on? You know, I'd be waving them. I'd be going to the liquor store. And that's when I knew it was like really bad and things needed to change.

So, you know, I really do think that, like you said, it takes somebody just like that little thing. So if there's people out there that are listening to this, just, uh, hit me up or hit up somebody and tell them that you're hurting because people will help you. You need other people. You're not going to do it on your own. Everybody needs other people, period. That's this idea of the lone wolf is total horseshit.

I need to help other people in order for me to be fulfilled. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're all, we're all together in this thing. Yeah. When I, having him at, at my house, you know, really helped me a lot to just just knowing that he was safe and knowing he was doing the right thing.

I'm married. I got two kids. I don't fuck around. I train. I fucking eat. Try to eat healthy. I try to do the best I can each and every day. And having him with me made me more accountable, made me more, you know, more full bore about everything. So it worked out good for both of us. Did you ever investigate Ibogaine? Yeah, I looked into it. I talked to the top, I knew, I do know the top researcher on Ibogaine, Dr. Deborah Mash. Explain what that stuff is and what it can do. Ibogaine is a substance that you get it from Africa, it's found in Africa. And basically you can, you drink it. I think they make up some sort of potion or whatever and you drink it and then literally turn a 20 year heroin addict around in about a day, about 36 hours, they say. And they go through some ritual. I'm not sure if the ritual does anything. The doctor didn't even really know if the ritual did anything, but it's part of the placebo, I guess. But it seems to really work. It's a schedule one drug here in America. You can't get it here. It's actually fairly safe compared to a lot of other things. So there's been some deaths on it,

but like maybe 15 all time or something like not super high. And it definitely needs to be medically supervised, but i don't think it should be illegal at all i think it should be i think ibogaine and kratom are the answers to the opioid epidemic well ibogaine has an incredibly uh high rate of success in terms of like people taking ibogaine getting off pills i think ibogaine is incredible my friend ed clay uh opened up a clinic he went down he had an issue with pills as well. And I'm pretty sure, I don't want to speak out of school, but I'm pretty sure his came also from an injury. And then he had a pill problem and then was trying to figure out what the fuck to do with it. And went down to Mexico, went to an Ibogaine clinic, and then said, wow, this is, I mean, it fixed him up totally.

And then opened up his own clinic. Yeah. One thing I didn't understand is I interviewed this Dr. Deborah Mash, and it's probably because she's in Florida. She's tied in with politicians, which is always a problem. And so she's 100% for Ibogaine, but she's also against Kratom, which makes no sense because she thinks that, you know, Kratom is, you know, because Ibogaine, you have to go get it medically supervised and medically done. And she just thinks giving people Kratom is loosey-goosey kind of stuff. Man, I'm 100% for clinics opening up and then giving the money to doctors and give the money to the state. If you can get Ibogaine to the hands of a lot of these people, it's so ruthlessly introspective.

Not from my personal experience, but Aubrey's taken it. Yeah. I know several people, Ed has taken it. I know several people that have taken it and it's completely turned their life around where they had this intense 24-hour experience where you just examine every single aspect of your life in this really alien way. And then after it's over, you're like, I'm never fucking drinking again or i'm never taking pills again and they they really do change their life and it's also not just an introspective experience but it also rewires the way your brain handles the addiction i'm not qualified to speak how because i don't really understand it i don't i don't know if anybody understands it actually like exactly how it works we could explain it it. Aubrey can explain like the mechanism

because there's some sort of a shift. See if we can find that. How does Ibogaine cure addiction? See if we can find that. But it's incredibly effective. I mean,

one of the highest rates of success. Another super high rate of success that we might be getting in California, it's on the ballot in 2018,

is legalizing psilocybin. If they can legalize psilocybin, that can fix a lot of fucking people too. And that's also something that you don't die from. Nobody's overdosing on psilocybin. The LD50 rate is something like 1,500 pounds. And what does that do? What is the- Magic mushrooms.

Yeah, and that's for mental health, right? For mental- Well, Johns Hopkins University did some studies on it, and one of the things they found is soldiers with PTSD. This is one thing that MAPS is concentrating on now, especially soldiers with PTSD and anybody with PTSD, rape victims, violent assault victims. Some people have some real hard times getting past past events,

and psilocybin has incredible effects on that but MDMA also does and right now MAPS is involved in some pretty heavy clinical trials with MDMA and they're they think 2021 is around the time where they're going to have MDMA clinics and it'll be legal because we have so many soldiers that are coming back from war and they're all fucked up and they have no solutions and put these people on pills and antidepressants and all these different things, anti-anxiety medication. Psilocybin and MDMA have shown to have massive, powerful, beneficial effects. That's something that I really want to do. I want to do the MDMA treatment.

I think that what a lot of people don't understand is when you have an addiction, there's deep-seated things in your mind, in your subconscious that drive you to go to the pills or go to the drinks or whatever. And it doesn't just go away when you get sober. You sort of work a lot of it out. But some of the subconscious stuff, you can't work out. So I'm like, man, there's still things, habits I don't like about myself. There's still things I want to fix. Well, let me connect you to Aubrey because he's really tight with those guys that are in the middle of those studies right now.

And he's actually gone through that protocol. I know Aubrey a little bit. Do you have his number? Yeah, I have his number. We'll hit him up. Contact him and talk to him about it because he's deep in this stuff. Aubrey introduced me to him when I went down to your gym, the haunted gym. Yeah, he's what I would call a real psychedelic warrior.

And that guy, he's in there He's in there all the time with some crazy shit You know, but there's the real benefits from it I mean, real, legit benefits And we've been really robbed And it's terrible I mean, we've been lied to We've been robbed

And there's a lot of people that use them recreationally And I'm not against that You know, I mean, I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want. If you can drink whiskey recreationally, which I do, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing mushrooms recreationally. And there's some people that think it's terrible and they're a sacrament. You should only use them in a ritual, in a shamanic setting. I say you should do that too if you want, but I've used them recreationally. I've had a great old fucking time and also came out of it with some insight and a different way of looking at myself and looking at my life.

Do you know that in this country, you have to list euphoria as a side effect to a supplement or a drug, right? That's hilarious. So euphoria is something that we all should have. Like we should all be happy, right? So they're listed as a side effect as if it's a bad thing. They experience euphoria. Oh, shit. I better not take that, super fucking happy but don't you think the things that induce

euphoria we should be we should be handing those out like crazy yeah it's people are too angry you think these pills are maybe like rehab pills kind of in a way like almost like treatment pills because they help you you know look from the inside out almost well for sure with mdma which you get in pill form it's actually made from the bark of a tree from, didn't we go over this the other day? Where the fuck's it from? Malaysia or some shit? Something like that?

There's a tree, and there's a real issue now in this country where this bark is, because there's fucking wars going on to try to get this tree, and it's not a very common tree either. It's rare, and we're

we could be in a situation where they chop down all the fucking trees that make ecstasy before we make it legal they did it with kratom in thailand so thailand made kratom illegal because it was cutting into the heroin the heroin trade this is back in 1947 they made it illegal and cut down almost all the kratom trees and if you see the documentary that um uh the guy did on vice morris hamilton morris yeah he did the um pharmacopoeia yeah a show on kratom and he goes to thailand to find like the only remaining kratom tree and he like you know he finds it and wow you know he drinks the real kratom and all stuff like that was really kind of fascinating that they that they did that so now it all comes from Malaysia, Indonesia, whatever.

It is crazy that they tried to stop the one thing that's safe because it was cutting into the fucking opium market. Yeah, of course. I like Kratom, too. I use it before I work out a lot of times. Do you really? Yeah, and even just for creativity. Just like if I want to just sit down and write or think of new products or whatever it might be. Really?

Kratom helps you in that way. How so? I like it a lot. I don't know exactly what it does. I don't know what the mechanism is behind it, but it does give me a sense of euphoria. It does make me happier. One thing I've always noticed about training is that when you feel good, you can lift so much better, and it just makes you feel really good because you're trying to lift with some

force, just like you hitting these bags and stuff. You're trying to put something into it. And if you can't put the mustard on it that you want to because your shoulder hurts, it fucking makes you grumpy. This stuff really matters to us. So for me, for lifting-wise, it's like I feel like I can go all in. I was actually just saying the other day when I'm sitting down and I go to get up, especially after some of these squat workouts and stuff, it's kind of slow. It takes me a minute. But on Kratom, boom, I feel like I can get up and run out the door.

It feels like almost I would consider it similar to getting out of a hot tub. The way you feel going into the hot tub, you're like, man, my shit's just kind of – I don't even know. Everything's just stiff, right? Can't get up and down the stairs so good I got to do the sideways trot down the stairs every every morning and i get in the hot tub and i can zing up the stairs naked you know what's fucked up man sometimes i have pain in my hip when i don't run hills it doesn't make any sense man and i've talked to doctors and they don't understand it i'm saying look when i run hills every day or uh not every day every week i like two, three times a week. Right. I got zero pain in that hip.

Could just be getting a lot of blood in the hip flexor. I think running hills and running in sand I think is really, really valuable, even pushing sleds and stuff because it slows us down. Right. Not that running can be great. Sprints can be great. But regular sprints for some of us who are over 40 and you haven't sprinted in a long time, probably not a great idea. But to run up a hill or sprint up a hill, it makes you go slower because the intensity is higher. And this doesn't seem – I think that's it, but it's also I'm putting all this extra muscle around my hip and my ass. Like there's something about that.

It looks great. Thank you very much. Yeah. But it's something about running up hills that like dude did i take a couple weeks off like i was sick for a week and then the week before that i was doing a lot of other different shit i didn't and it starts to like get at me your reverse hyper doesn't help with that with that or is it is it in the hip it's like is it in the front of the hip the side side it's the side you gotta get in on that of the hip? The side. It's the side. I don't know what it is. You've got to get in on that hip circle.

Hip circle? What's that? I'll show you afterwards. Oh, a band? Yeah, the hip circle band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are great. It'll help you a lot.

It'll help build up that side ass, I like to call it. Is that what it is? Side ass? But I'm telling you, man, there's nothing like running up hills. And the hills that I run, it's all rocky terrain, so I'm jumping from one rock to the next, and it's steep like that. So I'm running up, and I have to take a couple of breaks to get to the top. It's a half that so i'm running up and i'm you know i have to take a couple of breaks to get to the top it's a half a mile up and half a mile in i have two different

courses that i run um well i have several but the ones that i run the most the full length of it i could i could run as long as four miles or i could do i could break it up into one or two most of the time i do two how long are your long are your runs? Two miles takes me about 40 minutes because the hills, it's not two hours. I mean, it's not 40 minutes. I could run, probably do it in 15, 16

if I was running flat. It wouldn't be that hard, but it's hills. It's not really, I mean, I would call it running, but it's more like hill sprints. I'm just doing these ruthless hill sprints. And I'd read that a long time ago that a lot of football players prefer hill sprints.

And then I saw that Greg Jackson and Mike Winklejohn, when they train their fighters in Albuquerque, they have them run this crazy mountain and they run it straight up the hill. And this was like a big thing that they did to really build up endurance. Yeah, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Roger Craig. This goes on and on. Damian Tomlinson. Walter Payton used to run hills until he'd throw up. Yeah.

He would run hills until he'd throw up. I think running hills is great, especially for bigger guys, guys that are 250, 260, 270, have joint problems. It's going to be really hard to get out there and run. Yeah, because it's not a pounding. You're not dropping the weight down. Instead, you're almost doing lunges over and over and over again. Right, and you could walk back down the hill.

Take your time. You can walk back down the hill. There's evidence that shows if you do five to eight sprints and you have long periods, you can have as much rest as you want in between. You'll still get great results for fat burning. So it doesn't take very long to do a workout like that it changes your cardio too i mean it really does i mean i force him to do shit like that with me sometimes but but can you you can't run though right with your bad hips not really run but um pushing a sled pushing a sled is really hard okay we uh he has a thing called the tank which is a kind of an amazing uh sled

with wheels that you push and you put weights on it so we push the tank, which is kind of an amazing sled with wheels that you push and you put weights on it. So we push the tank. We do all sorts of stuff like that that are different. I can go on a rowing machine as fast as possible. I can go on the, what do you call it? The airdyne bike as fast as possible.

Did you see that one I got out there? The Echo bike from Rogue? It's a fucking tank. It's like an airdyne on steroids? It's sick. The Echo Bike from Rogue. No, I haven't tried it. It's a fucking tank. It's like an airdyne on steroids. It's got these big-ass steel fucking handles. Yeah, I saw it. It looks nice. It's so good.

It's so good. That thing's ruthless, too. But I think just something as simple as that, and those bikes, you can get them as cheap as like 500 bucks. Yeah. That thing will change your life. Change your life. Just do it like Mark said, five to eight sprints on it a day.

Yeah. Completely. When he comes up and trains with me when he comes up and trains with me a lot of times you know he'll say i can't do that i try to you know have everybody in these kind of big circuits that we do and we we train our asses off and probably sometimes overdo it but when he joins us a lot of times he'll say i can't do this or i can't do that i'm like well you don't really know unless you tried and i i'm sympathetic towards the fake hips i don't have them so I don't know exactly what it's like.

But I'm like, just try it or try a different variation of it. And he kind of won't, and then he'll kind of drift off. And the next minute, I'll see him either trying it or doing some other version of it. And I'm like, all right, good. It's working because he's at least doing something, right? Do you fuck with the VersaClimber? Yeah, we do that a little bit sometimes. That thing's ruthless. That what makes you hate your life we do a circuit with that and i

have a bike that's on steroids too uh so from australia i forget what the theme is the cross trainer too oh yeah we have the uh ski erg thing oh those things are ruthless yeah we use that and the rower oh and we do a circuit of all like all three or four of those exercises yeah that's fucking awesome yeah we started adding it adding in a lot more things like that and cardio and stuff like that because uh i'm 45 he's how old are you 41 something like that so as we get older you start looking into things where uh you want to be healthy you know you want to do it for your health so um thinking about those things uh definitely, I don't care about power lifting anymore. I don't care about my numbers. I want to lift heavy weights consistently,

but I don't care what the single rep max is anymore. It doesn't matter, you know? Right. When you talk about your diet and its impact on inflammation, do you ever think that if you got on this diet when you were younger, you wouldn't have had to get hip replacements? Yeah, I do. I really do. I think if I did it when I was younger, well, I don't know. It really is about a decline in tissue, a decline in cartilage tissue, where it was there when I was young, and then it started disappearing. And then by the time I was 28 years old, it was completely gone. And this is because of inflammation and because of of arthritis there's really no reason for it

You know my doctor said that lifting didn't cause it it might have sped it up The fact that I needed to get the double hip replacement surgery But he said like this isn't something that you know lifting a weight causes like it's a natural process in your body where your your body's Breaking down, you know, whatever so I don don't, I don't know. A good test will be, um, five years from now, how I feel, you know, because I have other joints in my body. A lot of them. But that was, I was just going to ask you, like, how are your shoulders? How are your elbows? I, I screwed up my shoulder and I tore my rotator cuff and I tore my tricep a while back and they never really healed, healed properly. properly so that that's an issue um but

the rest my other joints that aren't aren't injured are all fine and feel good now you know so what about your knees well my knees were when i got my hip surgery 10 years ago uh the doctor said to me your knees are next and they need to be done probably like in a year you know oh god so he told me that 10 years ago. That doctor's got a Ferrari. Yeah. He's thinking about making payments on that condo in the Alps. Yeah. And I don't know.

I haven't had. And then let's see. I'm trying to think of when this was. I think like around when I finished prescription thugs. So maybe like two years ago, I went to a doctor, and I was just in so much pain. And I said, look, I can't get back on opioids. That was my problem, but I need something. What was the pain in?

Everywhere. Every joint in my lower body, like my ankles, my knees, my hips. And the guy basically just said, you need to go get a full-body MRI. So I get a full-body MRI, and he tells me that there's really nothing wrong with me. And I'm like, I don't know what you're looking at, but I can't walk in the morning. And he's like, ah, well, you don't, you don't really have, you know, like you're, you don't really have cartilage in your knees. That's going away. But like, you know, you do have it in your ankles and you do have it in, and didn't really offer me any solutions. And that was, it was at that point where I realized,

like, if I'm going to do anything, a doctor's not going to be the one to help me. You know? So I think a lot of times people are always so concerned, like, did you ask a doctor? And I'm going to do anything, a doctor is not going to be the one to help me. So I think a lot of times people are always so concerned like, did you ask a doctor? And I'm always like, well, doctors never really help me. It's myself always helping me. It's me researching things that cause me pain that really help me. So that's what I had to do was go out and look for it myself. Wow. So when you – do you ever go back to that doctor and go hey motherfucker 10 years later

I'm still walking now. I don't have any pain. Yeah, I should go back to him and say hey, you know Like they you know They screwed up my hip and they left they they left a bad hip in me for two years And then I went to the doctor and I went to my doctor and I said doc. This is debilitating And so he takes a tissue box and he throws it on the ground. And he says, pick that up. And I pick it up. And he said, you're using the wrong terminology. It's not debilitating else you wouldn't be able to pick that up. And I thought it was the rudest thing I've ever heard a doctor do or say, like ruthless, like, really? So I'm using the wrong

word. But big, I can't, I can't pick something up off the floor. It hurts. Yeah. And I was trying to tell him like you don't understand this hurts and he's like nah you're not hurt you're fine he actually told me to go back to the gym and start lifting oh my god and then two years later he calls me back and he says i know what's wrong with your hip we screwed it up oh jesus yeah so do you ever think about calling the doctors on late night tv yeah no you know that i don't think doctors i don't think that's the way you know you don't think that's the way to get paid I'm sure

yeah but they fucked you up man just threw the shit out of that asshole those tissue box throwing douche bags fuck them

he's got insurance part of what happened to you too is like you had pain right that was that was preventing

you from moving more right and then you just kind of stopped like you did some cardio stuff for exercise but you weren't able to squat bench deadlift you weren't able to get some full range of motion from moving more, right? And then you just kind of stopped. Like you did some cardio stuff for exercise,

but you weren't able to squat, bench, deadlift. You weren't able to get some full range of motion and therefore, you know, use it or lose it, right? You lost range of motion. When did the pain go away? Well, I'm still in a lot of pain when I wake up every morning. Are you?

Yeah, it goes away when I, the thing is that the diet has helped clear up like a lot of inflammation. It's also helped clear up a lot of body fat, helps you get into better more advantageous positions when you're lifting You know that you can't I couldn't even bend down the deadlift because you probably yeah gut would get in the way and all stuff like that so Get rid of those things and that helps a lot losing weight in general always is gonna improve health markers And you're always gonna feel lighter and better, you know, for the most part. And then, um,

it was at this like losing weight. And then when I, um, started taking Kratom with a ketogenic diet and really reduced my inflammation is when I started feeling better. So it was sort of a combination of those two things and, um, continuing to move. It's a daily struggle. It doesn't go away. And this is because you're osteoarthritis. Yeah. So when you woke up this morning, like, hard to get out of bed?

Yeah, you know what? Actually, this morning I felt good. So you have good days and bad days, you know? Do you ever fuck with hot yoga? I haven't, but I keep hearing you talk about it, and I keep thinking, like, man, that's just something I have to go do. I was wondering, like, how that would affect your how you're like do you have full range of motion i think i would probably feel great but right now i can't move enough to get in those positions so i

have to take like a pre yoga class no no no you just take a yoga class and you do your best like they always say that because there's a lot of people in my class that have some serious issues they can't move well or there's this one lady who goes, and she's fucking courageous, man, because this lady's so overweight. And she goes to this yoga class, and she does her best. And I see her, and I want to say something to her, but I don't want to say something to her. I don't want to be the guy and go, hey, for a giant lady, you're fucking putting it up there. I don't want to like, you know. I say hi, and I smile at her,

but she's courageous because she's every bit of 450, 500 pounds. I'm just guessing. She's enormous, but she does it. She tries. She's got her arms up. She's bending forward. She's doing her best. And if you just keep showing up, it'll get better.

Like you're not going to be able to get into those positions initially, but if you keep showing up. I think the hot yoga might help him because when he's warmed up, you move around really well. That's what I'm saying. In a workout, you're like, oh, fuck it. Now I'm going to deadlift. Once he's warmed up. Yeah. A lot of people don't warm up enough.

Right. I agree with you 100%. In a yoga class where it's already warm, that helps a lot. But people need to understand that the more intense the exercise is that you're going to do, the longer your warmup needs to be. So if you're going for a two hour walk, how much warmup do you need? Probably none. There's not a lot of intensity behind that. But if you're trying to run a 40 meter sprints, then you better warm up for a half an hour and probably minimum so you don't tear a hamstring. Same thing with trying to bench

heavy or squat heavy. Not just the exercise itself either. That's a mistake, I think. I think you have to warm up with other means. And the easiest way to warm up is through your upper body. So you go in the gym and you can do curls and shoulder stuff if your shoulder's healthy. That's the fastest

way. Ski erg is a great way. The fastest, easiest way to warm up your body is through the upper body. A lot of times our knees are... What do you mean? Well, because like your knees and your lower back. The fastest, easiest way to warm up your body is through the upper body. A lot of times our knees are – How so? What do you mean? Well, because like your knees and your lower back. I mean just in general. This isn't everybody, but in general, a lot of people, the knees, the lower back, and some of those things are going to take time to warm up.

And you can warm them up faster just by getting the upper body to move. When you utilize your upper body, you get your heart rate up a little bit faster. Right. And it's just, it's more comfortable. It's just easier. It's easier for me to say, hey, you know, hold this band, pull it apart, do these curls. Get some sweat going. Yeah.

Get your body heated up. Just move your arms around. Throw some punches. Like, who can't throw punches? Right. Anyone can throw some punches. I know a few guys. I can't throw any good ones.

Yeah. No, you can't throw any good ones. Yeah. But you just, you move around. That's how you warm yourself up. You got to make sure you warm yourself up. I like't throw any good ones. Yeah, no, you can't throw any good ones, yeah. But you just move around. That's how you warm yourself up. You've got to make sure you warm yourself up. I like to use the elliptical machine. I do 10 minutes on an elliptical machine because there's nothing going on.

The intensity is so low. Yeah. That's great. And there's no impact. There's no nothing. You do it at your own pace. You're not really carrying any weight. Another thing Mark and I do all the time is walk.

We walk every single day. And we started a thing like a 10-minute – he has a hashtag 10-minute walk. And after you eat every time, right? Yeah, yeah. You try to do as many 10-minute walks in a day as you can. I don't want to tell anybody about that hashtag because now they're going to put a bunch of pictures of dicks. Hashtag 10-minute walks. I get a lot of eggplants.

It's going to be all dicks now. Hey, that's okay. He likes that stuff. Yeah, I get a lot of eggplants. Why eggplants? I don't know now. Hey, that's okay. He likes that stuff. Yeah, I get a lot of eggplants. A lot of eggplants. I don't know. Hey. Now it's even worse because I said it here, right?

Is this like some inside joke about eggplants? Tons of eggplants. Well, the eggplant's a dick, right? What kind of dick? Emoji for dick. Right? Yeah. Is it?

Yeah, for sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. But I would see that emoji and be like, why is there an eggplant? That's a dick. That's so funny.

I'm so old. I don't know anything the kids are doing these days. I just found out about Lil B. I don't know shit. Anyway, people should be going on a 10-minute walk. It's low-hanging fruit. It's easy to do. Just try one a day.

It's not hard. One thing I like to do is bodyweight squats, too. I do those Hindu squats. I'll do a set of 100, and it just gets everything warmed up everything lose your legs burning pretty yeah in a weird spot right like your quads near your knee upper knee yeah like right here yeah this this part like right where your knee connects where your quad that can do what about what about a wall sit how come a wall sits so hard it's fucking hard I did that the other day it was

brutal that's the hardest fucking exerciser isn't it well in uh karate they would have you stand at a horse dance yeah long periods of time just like this just standing at horse dance like how hard could this be a minute in you're like oh shit how long am i supposed to do this just you're not even leaning up against the wall yeah no lean up against the wall just Just a deep squat. Just fucking. Just stand. And how long would you stand there for? I never did it. It was not. My instructor was never into that.

Well, I didn't. I took karate for a very short period of time. That's a karate thing. I was in Taekwondo. We never did that. Karate kid's coming back. Oh, my God. Do you know about that?

Is it Will Smith Jr. again? No, no. It's Cobra Kai. It's a show about the Cobra Kai. It's a bad guy? It's like Netflix, I think. It's about the cobra kai it's like netflix it's about the bad guys netflix yeah on youtube uh but ralph macchio's in it and he comes in and he has a competing dojo i believe how old is ralph macchio now 50 32 at least he looks great like what is

that guy on all right here's the trailer is on some youth shit. Oh, look at this guy. Look at Cobra Kai. Let me see that. Strike hard. Oh, push-ups. Oh, terrible punches. Who's teaching these people? No mercy. Hey, sensei. Is there any particular way you want me to watch your videos? Oh, God.

No, I don't give a shit. Just shut that off. That was great. Shut that off right now. That was great. There you go. That is the fucking trailer. We need an MMA movie. Get to work. There was one. Warrior was great. Brian you go. That is the fucking trailer. We need an MMA movie.

Get to work. There was one, Warrior. Warrior was great. Brian Cowan was in that. The only problem with that movie is they had people fight over a couple days, which is just like, shut the fuck up. They did a bunch of stupid shit they didn't have to do in that movie. You can have people fight more than one time in a night, but if you really think someone

can get in a brawl, and then you've never seen anybody fight, and then see what they look like the next day. Because I remember when Ken Shamrock fought Tito Ortiz, and then I ran into him the next day. I was like, holy shit, Ken. His whole face was swollen up. He had sunglasses on. That guy is not fighting anybody today. I mean, he would. He's a fucking animal, but that's not healthy.

Your body's dealing with all the... I don't even like when they fight more than one time in a night. And they got away with that back in the day. And I know Glory still does that for some of the kickboxing tournaments. But it's just fucking dangerous. It's just not smart. Guys get concussed, and then they fight again an hour later, two hours later. That's crazy.

Smashing Machine was a fucking awesome movie. That's my favorite documentary ever. That is a great... That's one of my top five. And that's is a great. That's one of my top picks. And that's an accidental find. That's one of those documentaries. An amazing doc. That is a lot like that movie Icarus, where they started to do one thing.

And they found another. Yeah, they found something way fucking crazy. Yeah. And that's a documentary on Mark Kerr, who's one of the scariest MMA fighters of all time. And he was juice to the teeth. But there was such an ironic thing with him where he was an animal, but he was so afraid to actually fight, which was really cool. That was such an interesting angle.

He'd say before he goes out to the cage every time, he's like, I can barely take a sip of water because I'm so nervous. He goes out and kills people. I was around when mark kerr first started competing he's one of the first guys that ever saw first of all he was a giant they used to call him the specimen for a while then they called him the smashing machine yeah but uh he's the first guy that ever saw that submitted someone with a look at that get the fuck out of here. That's crazy. Mark's like, I can improve that. I can just get him in my gym.

But look at that. Just keep that up there for a second. Those traps. When he was at the UFC, he submitted someone with a chin to the eye socket. He held the back of the dude's head and got his chin in the guy's eye socket and just fucking drove his chin into his eye socket.

Dan Bobish. Yeah, first time i ever saw somebody submit someone that way but seriously everybody asked me what my favorite documentary is because that's what i do and without even hesitation i always say smashing machine it's a great doc it hit me on so many levels it was great it really reminded me of our older brother he reminded me a lot of mad dog wow mark ker Well, you know, he had a substance abuse problem and he was also like a guy at the time, it was the early days of MMA.

I mean, he was fighting back when it was just crazy raw, bare knuckles and, you know, fighting in these weird rings and shit.

I mean, he was the early, early days of MMA. You ever read the book Blood in the Cage? I read some of it. It's really good. I never finished it.

You had Pat on last week, and I actually wanted to do – I still want to do a film with Pat, a scripted film. We've been talking about it. We talked about it a long time ago, and now I'm starting – I have a little bit of clout now. I'm starting to talk about it again. But his life was insane. He had two brothers that died and one brother that ended up going to jail for like 15 years. And he was the runt of the family. And he ended up becoming the first ever UFC lightweight champion. Which is just overcoming adversity like crazy.

It's an amazing story. You know, Pat's neck was so fucked up that his discs fused together on their own. Wow. That's incredible. He had so much degeneration of his discs that the two bones, they sat on top of each other for so long they fused the part where people accused him of having an operation like he had an issue where a doctor said that he had an operation he's like i never had a fucking operation like your neck your fucking bones the two bones they have no disc in the middle and now they're fused together i've never

even heard of that before you ever heard of that No. You know how fucking tough you have to be to deal with the kind of pain where your neck is fusing itself? Your neck is like, this asshole is not going to go to a doctor, so we're going to be the doctor. When you see what he went through, he's probably one of the toughest people in the world. You know, it's just he's been through a lot. Very smart dude, too. Very smart guy.

When you talk to him, he's there. He's all there. I mean, long career in MMA. You know, he fought dan severin finish that book if you get a chance it's amazing okay listen to the audio book when you run or something it's great really good book um yeah he's it's those old days there's nothing like them it'll never happen again what's great about that book also it tells the whole story of the how the ufc started how it got all you know started and all the players involved. It tells that whole story, which is really cool.

John Wertheim, Sports Illustrated. Oh, okay. Really, really good writer. That guy's written a lot of good stuff. He wrote a great book on pool, too. Yeah, he wrote a book on – About Kid Delicious. Yeah, he wrote the pool book.

He wrote a book on statistics and how they sort of point shave and all that stuff like that in basketball. Yeah. No, he's a very good writer. Okay. Cool. When is, do you think this documentary is going to come out? The nutrition one or the Kratom one? Well, the Kratom one is going to come out soon, right? May 29th.

What's it going to be on? Where can people get it? Well, hopefully it will be on Netflix, Amazon, whatever. I'm not sure exactly where it will be yet. We've partnered with The Orchard and they're the distribution company. So right now they're in the process of figuring out where it'll be yet we've um partnered with the orchard and they're the distribution company so right now they're in the process of figuring out where it will be um but i'll let everybody know it'll be on it probably start out to tell you the truth on itunes is the normal

route and then um you know you let it play on itunes for a while and there's a there's a whole system to it because it makes money in different ways different places right unfortunately for documentary filmmakers, Netflix is sort of your graveyard at the end because you want it to be on Netflix because everybody has access to it, but as a filmmaker, they really shaft you. Do they? Yeah.

How? Because they'll buy the film from the distribution company, and then all that money just goes back to the investor, and it's like, I don't see any money out of it so the only way to make documentaries and make them profitable is make them really really cheap and a lot of times we don't do that so we end up you end up losing some money on it a lot of times you know i'm paying for this one it's just the way it works oh yeah yeah this this nutrition movie yeah millionaire money 100 yeah uh but you know the advantage of doing a food

documentary is they do really well so with a food documentary you have a chance to really make a profit where as the other stuff it's it's really difficult did you patent the term meathead millionaire yet uh trademarked yeah did you i got all kinds of stupid shit trademarked nice that's a good thing that's a good thing that was my nickname for him. Leadhead millionaire. Well, I know that Icarus did really well, and it did really well for Brian Fogle, but that is a groundbreaking, life-changing documentary. Also, things break out like that. Like that movie, first of all, it was involved. When we did Bigger, Stronger, Faster, there wasn't an international scandal going on that we we were sort of happened to be following and so shit yeah so so um in a way you know he got he got lucky with that but he also

made a great film he took it and made it into something really good so i think that was cool but uh you know it was what a crazy movie that was you know we didn't we didn't have something like that in the movie we didn't have somebody like admitting to steroids that was like huge so uh when it came out at sundance it was sort of a shocker to a lot of people like, this is at Sundance. This is crazy. I can't believe this, you know, at Sundance and, um, and it did really well. It got really good reviews. It did really well, but it didn't have that like one thing that broke it out and made it supersize me. You know, there was, there was something missing, some element where every, you know, it wasn't a thing that everybody

had to see, although it was a really great film, I think, you know where it wasn't the thing that everybody had to see, although it was a really great film, I think. It just didn't have that one thing. I thought it was really great as well, but yeah, you didn't. He got super lucky while he was doing that. You could see what I'm saying. There wasn't that one thing where you have to see it because of this thing. Yeah, because the thing about cheating in the Olympic Games, it's always been suspected,

but to get it so confirmed where you have the guy that did it, and he's running from the Russian mob, or whatever you want to call them, and they're trying to fucking kill him, and now he's in hiding. He's still in hiding to this day in America in protective custody, and they're looking for him. They're looking for him. I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy, first of all, that he did the film. And I think, secondly, it's crazy that he wasn't even a little bit more protected, at least by the filmmaker. I thought the filmmaker kind of threw him under the bus a little bit. But that's just, you know.

How so? He wanted to be in the film. Yeah, I know. It was weird, though. It started to feel weird. In what way? I felt like, I don't know. How could he have protected him? By changing his name? The Russians knew who he was. like, I don't know. How could he have protected him? By changing his name?

The Russians knew who he was. Yeah, I don't know. I just felt like it was, I don't know. I felt like it was a little reckless as a filmmaker. I just felt like it was a... What would you do differently? To tell you the truth, I really don't know what I would do differently. I just felt like, man, as I'm watching it, I'm going like, man, this guy's going to get in a lot of trouble.

He's going to get killed because of this. He threw me under the bus. I don't know. Maybe I did. I don't know. Maybe I do. Maybe I'm just talking on my ass. Yeah, but you weren't rigging the Olympics.

Yeah. No. What changed after that was that the Russians essentially are barred from the Olympics, and now they compete under the Olympic flag. Well, what's interesting is they had Don Catlin in there, and Don Catlin's a guy for America that does the same thing. Does he? And he was going to be the first guy. Remember, then he backed out, and he said, I'll give you the Russian guy, because he

knew the Russian guy would talk. What do you mean he does it for America? He's the guy that's our doping control. Our doping control guy. He's our what, USADA guy? He's the guy that did all the drug tests for the Olympics from like the 80s on. Right. But he's not the guy that dopes up the Americans.

You have to be really clear when you say that. He doesn't dope them up. He's the guy that tests them. Right. We should tell people what Icarus is, too, if they don't know what we're talking about. So this would be a standalone podcast. standalone podcast. It's a documentary that Brian Fogle made where he decided to rice,

ride his bike in a race, clean, completely clean, and then do it on steroids to see what his times would be. How much benefit he would have. And in the process of him filming this documentary, the guy who hooked him up, this guy, Grigory, from Russia, who was the head,

unbeknownst to him, of the Russian state-sponsored doping program. He thought he was getting a guy who was like the Russian USADA, that it was going to tell him what the cheaters use. But it turned out along the way, everything got exposed, and he was like, look, I did this for 40 years. I dope everybody, everybody on drugs. And he said every fucking single athlete

that was in the Olympics was on some shit. And then he explained how they did it and everybody's like, what the fuck? And then they were going to pull the Russians

and then the other thing that he exposed is the collusion between WADA and the IOC and that they all work for each other and they switch fucking roles

and they go back and forth with each other and that they're not going to punish the Russians. But what they're doing now is they kind of have to because all of that movie i mean that movie literally changed the olympics i guess what i'm saying is when i did bigger stronger faster and we're going around talking to the experts you know a lot of the experts uh they would mention don catlin and i'd be like what's up with don catlin they'd say oh man if you get him to talk, I mean, the sports world will just crumble.

And everybody kept saying that. Like I heard it from like four different people that are experts. They just said like, nobody would believe in sports if that guy exposed what he knew. And so then I interviewed Don Catlin, but he just laughed when I asked him that. He's like, ah, they don't know what they're talking about, you know, kind of thing. And I gotta go. Yeah, I'll see you guys later. And I said look charles is an expert he said the whole sports world will crumble if they if they knew what you knew what do you know and he said i don't know anything you know and so it's kind of i mean what you're not you're never going to get an answer like that something has to get exposed through a different way so right i shouldn't i i can't say

uh without a shit without a shadow beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's the truth, but I'm suspicious of that guy, I should say, and suspicious of our system. I don't think they're the only ones doing it. There's no way they're the only ones doing it. China had a record number of gold medals when they hosted it in Beijing. But I think we're doing it just as bad as they are. I wonder. I mean, we're doing it better, obviously. We're not getting caught.

So when you say we, do you think there's a state-sponsored American doping program like they have in Russia? I don't think state-sponsored, but I think like maybe. There's some people doing something somewhere. There's some sort of network going on. Some shenanigans. Look, if there's one Balco, there's 10. There's got to be more than one Balco. You think so?

There's got to be more than one guy that's like, you know, telling people what to take. There's a lot of that shit out there. But listen, man, keep me posted on your movie. Let us know when, when this nutrition,

do you have a name for it yet? Uh, we've been, we've been talking on carbs. We were talking about the war on carbs, but we've been debating whether or not that's the right. It's a very catchy thing, especially now because people are so aware. There's so many people that are switching to low carb high fat diets and having some pretty

spectacular results yeah i mean there's a lot of there's a lot of evidence behind it you know and if you you were saying before i'd like to see somebody take all these diets and compare them and they did that in uh the 70s or the 80s i forget when it was it was dr gardner from stanford And he was a vegetarian. So he took a vegan diet, vegetarian diet, the Atkins diet was the diet at the time, it wasn't like a keto diet, the dash diet and the Ornish diet, and he put them all together. And they did a lot like a pretty big elaborate, I don't know how big it was. So I don't want to say but they're pretty elaborate study. And at the end of the day, the Atkins diet, basically one

most weight loss, best health marker improvement, Atkins diet, at the end of the day, the Atkins diet basically won. Most weight loss, best health marker, improvement. Atkins diet. And the guy was a vegetarian. And he said at the end of the study, this was a really tough pill to swallow. And I think that's a really interesting thing. They did this study. Did you know that Atkins had a bunch of heart attacks? Had coronary heart disease and was 258 pounds when he died?

Yeah. And someone was saying saying i heard that stuff wasn't true though no no no no he was true no he that's how big he was when he died and he definitely had heart disease so he definitely did he did but the question is did he have heart disease before he did this diet was even on his own diet i mean was his diet based on science and fact and and and efficacy? But did he follow it or did he just eat ice cream and fuck off all day? We don't know.

But he died by hitting his head, right? He fell and hit his head. He fell and hit his head. But see, this all came from a tweet that I read from John Joseph from the Cro-Mags, who's a pretty rampant, rabid vegan and a badass triathlete and very very athletic guy he was the one that said that and I was like wow is that true? and he said that the guy died of a heart attack and that his wife was covering it up

so I went to look into it and it's very difficult to say because even Snopes had it as inconclusive it's like ooh he might have had a heart attack and fell and hit his head. I mean, the guy had heart disease. But the question is, look, some people have heart

disease and it's congenital. They're born with issues. There are people that are more, I mean, they're just more likely to have heart attacks. Just like there's some people that are more likely to have strokes and more likely to have arthritis. There's just issues that people have. So we don't know whether or not he was born with that if he had that but also if He's at 258 pounds. He clearly isn't following his fucking diet unless he's a giant

How was he and he was an old guy? He's in his 70s. I believe maybe late 60s find it so pull pull pull up the the wiki on him on dr. Atkins what was his name Robert Robert Atkins Robert Atkins but you know that I died yeah that's the thing was like um you're talking about him the guy yeah but the diet that he created is different than the actual guy right and we don't know if he was doing his diet so we don't know the people that were doing his diet that were in the study right they ended up coming out on top is all I'm saying. What's like the guy who created CrossFit?

He's not in shape. Right. Greg Glassman. You ever see him? Yeah. He's got some issues, I believe, some injuries and stuff that don't allow him to do all the stuff that CrossFit does. Right. But, yeah, he's –

He's 72 and he died. Days prior to his death, he fell and hit his head on an icy New York pavement. New York's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Admitted April 8th. He underwent surgery to remove a blood clot in his brain but went into a coma. So we don't know. I mean, it says that's how he fell and he hit his head. We don't know why he fell, and it may very well have been that.

But here it says the medical examiner's office a year after his death showed that Atkins had a history of heart attack. Oh, yeah. Congestive heart failure. What is congestive heart failure? And hypertension. Congestive means. Okay, that's not good. His widow refused to allow an autopsy.

Oh, that's interesting. That is interesting because his widow refused to allow an autopsy because this guy wasn't healthy and maybe wasn't even following his own advice? But what was his weight when he died? Maybe because he's going to get ripped. Does it say that, Jamie? His wife might have felt that he's going to get ripped apart in his death, and she didn't want that. 72 years old. See if you can find out what his weight was when he died, because I'm pretty sure he was 258 pounds.

And if you're 258 pounds at 72 years old that ain't good yeah does it say his weight i'm very very sure that he was very heavy just google robert atkins 258 pounds when he died i'm pretty sure that's how so here's's the thing. Was that from the diet? I mean, how's that possible? I mean, if the guy is making people lose weight on this diet, and he himself is fat, and he himself has serious heart failure. Yeah.

258 pounds at his death. The release report by New York City officials outraged the Atkins people. So he had a history of heart attacks and congestive heart failure and 258 pounds. I don't think he exercised, did he? He probably didn't, but that doesn't mean anything. I mean, he overate, obviously, too. But it's like, was the guy following his own advice? We don't know.

There's a lot of people that, look, ice cream is tempting. Spaghetti's tempting. You know, who doesn't like a good meatball sub every now and again? Who knows? At the end of the day, we're all on this race who can see who's going to live the longest. I think there's still no real conclusive proof. Is there that

one diet, people live longer over the other? Well, forget about live the longest because that's really out of your control. What about the quality of life while you're alive? That's what I think about. If you're 258 pounds, your quality of life sucks unless you're a giant. Unless he's as big as francis and gano you know i mean really literally that's like in gano's weight class yeah how the fuck yeah how is he that how is he that big unless atkins is fucking giant gorilla i mean how is he uh how does he have 258 pounds that's not good i

agree with you quality of life like if i'm here you know if i'm gonna get an extra two years but i'm gonna be like weak and feeble and and not able to do anything like what are those two years worth it right i feel that the best diet is the one you can follow and utilizing a ketogenic style diet utilizing intermittent fasting i think it helps kill hunger i think it helps kill cravings and so i think it's a diet that in my opinion it's one of the easier diets to adapt to it might be hard for some people that really like carbs and they might have to find something different uh but for me it's always worked for him it's always worked well his his essential atkins diet did put people into ketosis i mean

that was a big yeah but it wasn't really the um the goal of it it wasn't the goal to get he also had weird shit too he had a lot of like bars and things like that. Yeah, Atkins bars. Sugar, alcohol, and a lot of things in there that probably are just not great for you,

I'd imagine. Those Atkins bars are really good if you like to fart. Yeah, I mean, that stuff is fun to have. Clear a room. They make some crazy stuff. Yeah.

They make like chocolate caramel. Yeah. You know, like anything that's going to be like that can't be good for you in any way, really. Fake flavors. Yeah, it's all fake anything that's going to be like that can't be good for you in any way, really. Fake flavors.

Yeah, it's all fake and that's hot. Hot farts. I think whether you're doing a ketogenic diet, a vegan diet, or any diet, you should stick to real whole foods.

Whole foods, absolutely. And one of the things Rob Wolf taught me was, you know, buy things that don't have nutrition labels on them. And just that simple thing, when you think about it,

you're like, oh yeah, if I buy an apple. Vegetables and meat and an apple. Yeah, it doesn't have that. And you're like,, when you think about it, you're like, oh yeah, if I buy an apple. Vegetables and meat and an apple. Yeah. It doesn't have that. And you're like, okay. Gotcha.

All right, gentlemen. Let's wrap this up. Big Strong Fast on Twitter. Mark Smelly Bell on Twitter. Tell people about your gym. I got Super Training Gym in West Sacramento. The gym is free. We're having a seminar April 22nd.

If you want to come check out the gym. How the fuck do you survive with a gym that's free? Meathead Millionaire. It's because I got A lot of products I invented a product Called the slingshot So you let people Just work out at your gym

I let people just Work out at my gym Guess what Good luck There's going to be A fucking cavalcade Of psychopaths Headed to your gym

That's okay Beautiful We welcome it That's awesome I love helping other people I love teaching other people I love coaching other people You fucking beautiful human being.

Yeah. All right. Well, and tell people where it is again. Check out my website, markbellslingshot.com, and Super Training Gym is in West Sacramento, California. All right. That's it, folks. See you guys.

We'll be back tomorrow with Boss Rootin'. Whoa. Boss. Thank you so much. That was awesome.