The Joe Rogan Experience - #1112 - Cameron Hanes

Episode Date: May 5, 2018

Cameron Hanes is a bowhunting athlete, “training intensively each and every day to become the Ultimate Predator” and he also has a podcast available called "Keep Hammering with Cameron Hanes."

People were surfing, though. Yeah, they caught those waves. Yeah, I worried about a tsunami Now it's not gonna sink, but it's gonna get bigger. That's what it is I mean the whole thing's a fucking volcano people are shocked. Wait, the volcanoes volcano. Yeah. Yeah, you live on a goddamn volcano Oh I wish you would have been on a flyover though. How Yeah, I was looking at the like the map of what the way we fly we fly so we can't see it the entire way, which is bullshit. Plus, it was cloudy, which is also bullshit. That would have been cool.

I even asked the guy, like, which way do we go? Yeah. That would be fucking awesome if we flew over that thing. Yeah. Ooh, fuck living on a volcano, though. Oh, man. Good place to visit, though. It's beautiful.

Oh, stunning. Yeah, man. Good place to visit, though. It's beautiful. Oh, stunning. Yeah, it was great. And where we were, we were on Lanai, and Lanai's an interesting place. 3,000 people, 20,000 deer. Right. And so you do the math, and you think, hey, this is going to be gravy. There is way more deer than people, but God, it's tough. It's tough hunting.

Tough bow hunting for sure. Well, this is one of the best examples of if you want to make an argument for hunting, like this in certain situations, this is probably the best example. You must control the population of these animals. They don't have any predators and they evolved around tigers. They come from India. So these axis deer, they were a gift from Hong Kong to King Kamehameha V. I saw your history lesson. Yeah, in 1860. I was getting all into it today and I want to make my post about it.

That was awesome. So what was the number that they shoot? How many did they shoot a week just to feed people and control the population? They said 1,500, but not a week, was it? No, I think it was 30 a day. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I think they were saying they shoot 30 a day. Right, because they have to go at night.

Yep, with night vision scopes. And shoot does. Yeah, just to take them out. Just to take them out. Yeah. That's so many deer. When we were there at night, first of all, I got super lucky. Thanks to you. You let me take them out. Just to take them out. Yeah. That's so many deer. When we were there at night, we got, first of all, we got, I got super lucky. Thanks to you.

You let me take that deer. But right when we landed, we went to scout. We got out of the car. We went and looked around. And within five minutes, we saw a buck feeding in a doable spot. Yeah, it's nice deer. I creeped in. It was total, it just gives you a distorted perception

of your chances of success, though. Because for the next five days, I got nothing until the last day. But in 15 minutes, I got the first deer. But when you get there, you realize how switched on these things are. Like, there's nothing

like these things. No. I've hunted in africa and the antelope there are pretty quick also just like that just because of lions and hyenas and yeah just twitchy just super jumpy twitchy but these deer are very similar just quick when we were leaving that night when you and me and adam were in the truck and we're leaving and we turned the lights on in the truck and you could see hundreds of deer in front of us. It was the craziest. It was like a crowd being let out of a concert or something like that.

Or a basketball game. Oh, basketball game's over because they're coming out of the trees, crossing the road into the open field where we'd been hunting, and it's just hundreds. You can't imagine. If you haven't been there, you can't imagine. And if you moved there or if you just went there for a few days, you'd kind of get it.

You'd be like, okay, what do you do about these things? Well, you can't give them birth control. I mean, they eat grass. So how are you going to stop them from breeding? You're not. So what are you going to do? Are you going to introduce tigers to lanai? That would be cool.

That may be the only way to do it other than hunters. And they're going to start eating people just hunting and it's it's such a destination for just getting good deer meat yeah and i was thinking about it too that stretch where those hundreds of deer cross the highway you know that's i mean it's as straight as can be you can see i mean great visibility but the speed limit's 35 I think it's because deer are always jumping out in front of cars there. Oh, yeah, for sure. People would be dying. So it seems like, why is it 35?

This is like, it should be 70, but so many deer. I think it's also because they're like, where are you going? Yeah. Slow down, eh? There's no hurry. What's the hurry, man? Yeah. Relax.

I mean, 3,000 people on the island maybe that yeah that's part of it too that island's so relaxed and the people are so friendly that's an awesome awesome place yeah it was uh i'm anytime i go on a hunt i mean i'm thankful for the experience and and for seeing the animals but also meeting the people you know know, Alec, Bob the Butcher. There's just like these people that are ingrained in your memory. And, you know, that's such a special part of the trip also. Yeah. The experience is very, very unusual because there's really not a place like that that I know of anywhere on the planet.

That's just a small island with a small population of people and a massive population of the most delicious animals in the world and even though there's so many of them good fucking luck getting one yeah we had like our friend ben o'brien he he went home empty-handed yeah he was so one of us in a group of very experienced hunters i mean other than me everybody in that group is super super experienced yeah you know and still it's no cakewalk these things are switched on and they dodge arrows like they're in the matrix i mean it's crazy it's uh there's no gimmies no i mean it's uh you can do everything right you can you can think in your head why i travel all the way here i'm i'm here to hunt i need to take

meat home it doesn't matter those deer there's no gimmies they're trying to stay alive and they know what's up they get hunted i don't know if it's every day because when they're when their antlers fall off you know the bucks probably aren't hunted but because they're killing does at night they're hunted most days out of the year yeah so they are as wired as it can be i mean because they're killing does at night, they're hunted most days out of the year. Yeah. So they are as wired as it can be. I mean, because they're used to being pursued. Yeah.

It's different than, say, like white-tailed deer. Like white-tailed deer seem to kind of know when hunting season comes around. Yeah. Like when their velvet drops off and they rub their velvet off and then the the females start coming into season that's when they get fucking sketchy and nervous because they know that guns are going to be going off yeah arrows are going to be flying their way right but you catch them during the summer they're just kind of chilling yeah these things are never chilling or in the winter after season right they're just they're uh more focused on food yeah and putting on some weight to to make

it through the winter. So other than hunting season, they are more chill. But these things, I don't think they ever get a day off. They don't get a day off. And they can't give them a day off. Because if they just, if everybody said, hey, man, let's just leave these animals alone, man. If they did, they would all die either of starvation or they would die.

Like they had to eradicate the goat population on the island because people brought goats there and the goats literally had decimated the vegetation to the point where the island started going into a drought. I don't understand this, but somehow or another, if you eat all of the vegetation, the rain stops falling in certain areas or there's a lack of precipitation or condensation doesn't gather because there's no no leaves to catch capture it or one of the ladies who lives there was explaining it to me why they had to kill all the goats oh i see and she was like trees were dying everything was dying and they're in the process right now of uh in maui they have this gigantic area that they are trying to eradicate deer from and they want to fence it in to let the forest regrow because the forest doesn't have a chance to regrow with again same animal axis deer because they just eat all the little baby trees yeah as the little trees are coming up they just chew those fuckers up and that's what they eat they eat shoots and they

want the new brows yeah yeah new growth yeah well it's uh i mean as far as our trip goes and that was another thing i wanted to mention too is that you said the group of people ben was one of them but uh we we had just an awesome group of hunters they're our all our friends basically and some of the best bell hunters in the world and it was uh man it was a good time. Hearing the stories from everybody was... Yeah. Then John Dudley made an amazing meal, cooked up some meat one night, and it's... How good is his cooking? Really good, man. And that deer, Axis deer, is so delicious.

It's incredible. Yeah. It goes with my theory that the fastest things are the most delicious, because they're trying to get away because they know they taste good. Yeah, maybe. Hey.

Might be something to that. Salmon? How good is salmon? They're like, get me the fuck know they taste good yeah maybe hey might be something to that salmon how good is salmon they're like get me the fuck out of here i don't like fish but you don't like fish at all i like halibut i like white white fish interesting yeah uh yeah um shane shane dorian big wave surfer slash awesome bow hunter yeah remy warren our buddy adam green tree uh sam sohal ben o'brien yeah uh i don't know will's last name will from yeti yeah i don't know either i don't know yeah nice guy yeah great guy but i mean what a fucking crew yeah so awesome it was great it was uh and just so much respect for guys like those guys who are at the top of their game.

You know what I mean? Bow hunting, I don't think people realize how hard it is. No. So when I see these guys go out and they're successful with basically a sharp stick, you know, especially on an animal like that. So a lot of these people, it's new country. Like Adam hadn't been there. I had never been there.

When you see guys go out there and do that on a new hunt, a new country for new animals, it's impressive. Well, we really did. Look at that. That's the goddamn A-team taking me and Kimmy out of the mix and Will. Let's be honest. He got a deer, though. He did get a deer. I'm just fucking with him.

He's a good dude. No, he's a good dude but i mean but what i'm saying is like you and dudley and adam and remy i mean fucking straight assassins and shane i mean shane and he lives out there but people don't know like shane is world renowned as a big wave surfer but he's an awesome bow hunter i mean he's really excellent and does it all the time out there spot and stalk crawling around the bushes i crawled i mean you were there the last day when i shot my last deer i crawled a quarter of a mile yeah to get to these fuckers yeah they were up on the hill i was watching you guys from an elevated spot up on top of the hill and i was i when you guys were up walking from a mile i could see you

easy you know i mean binoculars, no problem. And then all of a sudden you're gone. And so I sent Alec a text. I'm like, why are you guys hiding from me? Because I would have to really glass, really glass. And then I'd be like, there's a head. Okay, there's a head. Okay, now I see you guys.

But it was, yeah, crawling for a long time. Let me think how long. I would say an hour almost. Yeah crawled for an hour an hour yeah to get a quarter mile and that is a lot of work yeah you know you got a bow so you had a bow in your hand i didn't have anything but you're moving that bow with each yeah whatever you crawling step and and it's basically doing a plank for an hour yeah i. I was winded by the time we got to where the deer were. And Alex was like, take a deep breath, take a deep breath. So we got within 55 yards, and I'm like, we're good right here.

This is a good spot. We're behind a bush. But my shoulders were sore. It was like I was doing push-ups. Yeah. Because you're crawling like a cat, and you're trying to be super quiet so like if you saw us do it people that are listening you're crawling but you're not just kind of crawling along no you're crawling as quietly as you can yeah and give me a deep respect for camouflage

too like i was wearing a camouflage face mask and a hat and i had a camouflaged backpack by the final day i had gloves on i was fucking fully camoed we i took the shoes off we were crawling a lot of it was in wool socks just so you could be even more quiet yeah yeah there's there's no you can't take too great of measures on being more stealthy or quiet on these animals yeah and uh immediately i put up the post, and I saw one negative comment. I'm like, I'm not even reading this shit. One of the things that happened while I was there

was my phone fucked up. I dropped my phone on the first day, and when I dropped my phone on the first day, it just went haywire. It wouldn't work anymore, and so I had to get a new phone. So I ordered a new phone and had it shipped to the island, and when I was doing that, I didn't use anything.

I didn't use any apps. I didn't check my email. I didn't check Twitter. And I felt better. I felt better. You went cold turkey. I went cold turkey for three days. And while I was out there going cold turkey, I was like, I feel better.

Like, this is better. Like, checking all that stuff all the time. Like, do I need to know about the Mueller probe 24-7? Do I? No, I stuff all the time like do i need to know about the muller probe 24 7 do i no i don't do i need to i don't what about stormy daniels do i need to know what the latest stormy daniels lawsuit is if i was a super billionaire character i'd give stormy daniels money and go please stop no but everybody i don't i don't want any here what do you want money you want money? You want money? I'm not even saying that he's not guilty

or that she's in the wrong. I don't think she is, but what are you looking for? Can we get this out of the news? I don't need to hear this anymore. He fucked you. I get it. Yep.

A lot of people fucked a lot of people since that time. You know what's irritating? What? You pay $135,000 like, okay, so you're going to just keep it on the DL, right? We're good, $135,000? Yeah. And then what's irritating? What? You pay $135,000 like, okay, so you're going to just keep it on the DL, right? We're good? $135,000? And then get the money? Now she's talking. What kind of deal is that? I don't

think she has that money anymore. I think she spent it. Oh, she needs more money. I think she needs more money. And I think she realizes this is an opportunity for you know I don't know how to look at it because on one hand i'm like well i think we should hold the president up to higher standards and you you shouldn't be able to

just lie all the time and be the president because how could we trust you if it comes to something serious like a war with china or some something crazy or invading iran let's just go off the charts with craziness. Yeah. I got to be able to trust you with everything. If I can't trust you that you don't want to tell everybody that you banged a porn star. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if you just had a press conference and ladies and gentlemen, who cares?

Yeah. Who cares? Yeah. I enjoy sex. I enjoy sex. I'm a heterosexual man. Look at my beautiful wife, Melania. Yeah.

Ten years before he was elected or whatever it was. It's like, I shouldn't have fucked this porn star, but I couldn't help myself. I'm a pig. Yeah. But I'm doing a good job as a president. Economy is up. Yeah. Unemployment's down.

Thank you. Good night. Support the troops. Support the troops. Support the NRA. Hey, but here's the thing. So you say you can't trust him because if you lie about this stuff. Yeah.

But, okay. So you say another president. How do you know they're not lying? They are lying. Yeah. So I mean. I think they've all lied. I think, look, one of the things that, you know, I had a conversation with a friend of

mine about Hillary Clinton and he's a big Hillary Clinton supporter to the point where it's like Jamie with the Cavaliers hat on he might as well have a Hillary Clinton hat on he's like a Hillary Clinton I'm sure they do I'm sure they had them right I'm with her this guy is a him and his wife are both like super Hillary supporters and I'm like it doesn't bother you at all that she deleted 30,000 emails it doesn't bother you at all right like they told her there's a probe we need to see all your just deleted them all. That doesn't bother you? That doesn't seem like maybe she's a liar. And then when you hear Comey's account of what happened versus her account of what happened, she's clearly not being honest. That doesn't bother you? And he's like, well, I think in

comparison, she doesn't lie as much. I'm like, what are you talking about? These are lies. It doesn't matter in comparison. so my point is i think anybody who gets to that level of that business yeah is slimy in one way or another you're everyone's slimy maybe but we would like you to not be yeah it'd be great we'd like everybody to not be yeah he i don't know i think the only way to get to the bottom of it is get him on the podcast i would love to get him on the podcast i'd love to get him drunk yeah so that's oh that's what i was wondering so you know most people have podcasts that aren't that's almost the joe rogan but that's almost true right now like most people do have podcasts. No, I know. But okay, let me finish.

So most people that do, they'd be like, they got this dream guest list, you know, the wish list. And these are my, I'd love to have these people. I was thinking about you. It's like, it seems like, and I don't know, I'm not you, but like the Courtney DeWalter, the people you're interested in are more important to you than, say, like the president of the United States. I mean, so how do you – do you have a wish list of guests? I don't have a wish list. No? No.

We were talking about this on the plane ride. I don't – I like talking to my friends. I like talking to you. I like talking to interesting people like the sleep expert I had on the other day, Matthew Walker. I don't – I like talking to my friends. I like talking to you. I like talking to interesting people like the sleep expert I had on the other day, Matthew Walker. No, I don't like him. Or Pete. He's telling me – He's giving you negative stuff.

He only sleeps three hours a night. So I didn't like that. I'm going to ignore that you said that guy. Monday we have Michael Chandler. I'm looking forward to that. I like talking to interesting people. They don't have to be famous to me at all. Some of my favorite podcasts are people that aren't famous at all.

I like people that are interesting. I mean, that's obviously a pretty blanket statement. But I like people that are doing things that are unique. People that are like masters at a craft, people that are working hard, people that inspire me. I like to be inspired. I like talking to people who are curious and who've studied things, whether it's Sean Carroll or Neil deGrasse Tyson or people that understand things that I don't understand so I can pick

their brain and ask them questions about stuff that to me is interesting but Trump haven't sitting down with Trump would be to me like a Lot like sitting down with my friend Alex Jones like it's be like, okay I would be like okay if you talk to him for three hours. Yeah, what kind of crazy stuff would come out? It'd be awesome. I really think that if he wasn't president, I would like him. I would like him. I would think he's a character. If I didn't have business to do with him where I was worried about getting screwed over in

some sort of a deal or something like that, I would like him because I would think he's a wild man. He's a character. He's a fucking 70-year-old dude with crazy fucking hair. He wears a red baseball hat everywhere that says, Make America Great Again. That's awesome. You can't even wear that hat in bars. Could you imagine that he is so divisive?

People are so conflicted, one side or the other, against him, that if you wear that hat, they will kick you out of places. What world do we live in where you can't wear something that says, make America great again. Yeah. How, how could that be considered anything but positive? How's, I don't understand,

but he's, people hate him so much. Well, and that's, so that's to me, even a great accomplishment from what he's done is like, he's got so much hate and he's still look at all the positives that happen well most people don't think any positives have happened because if most people live my most

people no no i think there has been well i think most people live in an echo chamber yeah and if you're like my friend who's a giant hillary clinton supporter all you hear is trump's the devil yeah and you know he was like completely convinced that it was going down and trump's going to be kicked out of office in the first 60 days. And he's like, trust me, it's not going to last a year. I'm like, it's not going to last a year. Yeah. A year later, he's crying. He's fucking pulling his hair out. He's going crazy. Yeah. You know, like Keith Olbermann. Yeah. He retired that show. He's like, I don't need to do this anymore. It's just a matter of days.

That was fucking six months ago. Yeah. I think. When did he quit? The resistance. I don't know. It wasn't soon enough. I think he just had to fucking take a break.

I think he was losing his marbles. Well, no, but they're so interested in the negative narrative that they're not, they won't even promote anything positive. So it's like when he was saying all the rocket man stuff it's like oh trump's going to cause a nuclear war okay now he's talking and now they're in negotiations with north korea and south north and south are are talking and he's like uh trump had nothing to do with it it's like well how could he almost start a nuclear war and then have nothing to do with what's going on it's like it can't be both right well i guess it probably could if they were like,

listen, let's not start a nuclear war. How about you and I talk? Yeah. Like North and South criticals. Let's get together and figure this out. This crazy asshole on the other side of the country. Maybe. Whatever. On the other side of the world, rather. Okay, so he deserves credit for that in some respect. He's very interesting guy

in the fact that his methods are so outrageous and outside the norm that I don't think these world leaders know what the fuck to do with him. Yeah. When he's calling him Rocket Man. Yeah, I know. You know, and then. And my button's bigger than yours? What?

Yeah. What? He says crazy shit. He says crazy shit. But that's what he's always done. Yeah. Yeah. So he's consistent. We just expect him to do something different because he's the done yeah yeah so it's he's consistent we just expect him

to do something different because he's the president right you know yeah now you're working we were talking about this on the plane too that you're working with uh what is your your position in the administration because you actually have a wildlife conservation position now in the government right did you ever fucking think that was going to happen no no i didn't how the hell did this even come up oh god um i don't know i'm on the international wildlife conservation council whoa yeah that's legit that's a hell of i got a business no i don't have a business card but if i did you should get a belt buckle for that i should oh i was thinking about the belt buckle so i then I was like, so you said you wanted a belt buckle. And I'm like, oh, maybe I'll give him my belt buckle that I wore on the hunt.

But then I'm thinking, so I gave you the belt buckle. But then I'm like, shit, maybe he wants a new belt buckle in the box with this sweet custom box. So I didn't want to be disrespectful and try to say, here's a used belt. No, the used one has blood on it yeah it does perfect yeah yeah okay okay i just wanted i wanted to make sure you're good with that because i wasn't i just i want you to want or get what you want basically um so international wildlife conservation council so i don't know how it started because i'm like man there are some powerful people on there saf Safari Club International people,

super successful business people and political campaign type contributors. And then, you know, we go to this meeting. There's 16 of us on the council. And you dress like this? Just like this. Cowboy boots, foil shirt. Just like this, dude.

And everybody else is wearing a suit and ties. And I'm like, do they give you grief for dressing like that? Not to my face, but maybe later fucking Oregon hillbilly. That's probably. And so, yeah,

I don't know. I don't know why I'm on there. I don't. Who contacted you? Um, or the interior department. So like you're in the middle of a run running up mount pittsburgh yeah no i got a call washington dc shut the fuck up swear to god and i'm like oh my god what have

i done this can't be good because it was after okay so trump put out the tweet and he said something like he doesn't see how hunting for elephants is conservation or or helps wildlife it's a it's a horror show doesn't help elephants or any other animal something like that and i was like what in the hell is that what are we talking about you know elephants talk about elephants that's fine whatever but he said or any other animal. Yeah. So I took that tweet. I posted it and addressed it. And I don't know if he saw it. I don't really know. But soon after that, I got a call for this thing.

And so, because I was, you know, I know just from hunting in Africa and how it works and the hunting is necessary over there. If the animals are going to survive, if that's a complicated story, complicated situation, but people, uh, people don't want to hear that. No. And so here's an example of in Tanzania, there was a, the largest hunting concession and I'm trying to think how big it was. I can't put the number on how big it was, but they'd been in business for 40 years. So a hunting concession is they have hunters from usually America go over there. They pay for the

access to the land and they pay for the right to hunt these animals. So this place had been in business for 40 years. They went out of business because of this import ban obama put an import ban on uh the ivory of elephants coming back as trophies but also lions yeah the lion thing was right after cease of the lion and it was done as a political measure right so he put a ban on you can go over there and hunt them still because you know we're from america we can't say what's legal in africa but he can say what he did was say we can hunt them whatever because i can't control that but you can't bring them home so nobody's going to go and spend 75 000 to kill an elephant or 50 000 to kill a lion if they can't bring it home right so that basically shut down hunting. And this outfit in Tanzania that had been in business for 40 years, they closed. They went out of business about I think it was about two months ago now.

And what happens is when they don't have the concession, they can't pay for that land. It is given back to the people. And for us here, they'll be like, oh, that's great. You gave the land back to the people. And for us here, they'll be like, oh, that's great. You gave the land back to the people. No, it's not good to give the land back to the people there because the people can't do anything. They don't have any money. They don't just like, so what happens is the poachers, as soon as the hunting concession moves out, poachers move in and kill every animal. The only reason the animals that were being protected in that hunting concession was because there was hunting in there. This outfit would spend, I think in the last three years, they spent over $2 million on anti-poaching efforts.

So $2 million to protect basically their investment, which is those animals that were in there. Yeah, they'd kill a couple because elephants were hunted and they ran the hunts and probably lions, but by and large, they're protecting the majority of the herd. Well, give me the, give me those numbers again, because you were, you were giving me the numbers on elephants legally and illegally killed. Right. So, so, and I asked this back at our first international wildlife conservation council meeting and this, you know, PETA was there and all these animal rights activists um i don't want to say psychos that could be disrespectful but anyway these extremists were there and so it was kind of heated in some point some cases but i did ask this question how many elephants are killed legally in

africa each year and the number is about 400 400 to kill legally in the entire continent of africa yeah it's a big area so big that you can get america the united states of america you can also get all the european countries you could fit a lot of shit in africa africa's huge huge place yeah and so there's some there's some areas where you're not going to hunt elephants because there's not there's not enough or um they don't live there but there's some areas where there's not enough or they don't live there. But there's some areas where there's too many elephants. It's just. Yeah, that's what's confusing to people.

People hear elephants are going extinct. Well, yeah, they are in some places. Yeah. And then in other places, the problem is with local farmers, they have these plots of land and the elephants come in and eat everything and destroy their land and they can't do anything about it. And what are you going to do this? How big is an elephant?

How many thousands a pound? 10,000 pounds or some shit? I don't even know. They're huge. They're huge. They can't do a goddamn thing about it. They don't care about elephants. The people, they're like, the elephant is ruining my crop.

Yeah. That's what I need to eat. Yeah. I'm going to kill the elephant. It's going to lay there and rot. Yeah. These people are starving. Yeah.

There's a food chain going on there, and humans, here where we are, we're so far above the food chain that we're like sitting in a platform looking down, watching it. They're embedded in it. They're ground level. It's a whole analogy of you can't have first world people solving third third world problems yeah that's you know and it's just we we people here have all the answers it's like you have everything you want you have you live in excess yeah you're fat you have you throw food away what are you talking about you have no idea what it's like in africa so there 400 elephants are killed legally. 30,000 are poached a year. 30,000.

And the reason that's happening is because the hunting had to move out. The hunting closed down. Or hunting is what pays for the anti-poaching efforts. But when hunting money isn't there, the poachers run rampant. 30,000 elephants. That's why they are devastated. It's such a... Not hunting. It's such a hard thing for

people to swallow because what i this is from the point of view of someone who loves wildlife i think this is what people want what they want is the humans to leave the animals alone and the animals to live in this state of bliss where they exist perfectly and the balance of nature of predator and prey all plays out in a natural way without people going over there and shooting elephants and then sticking their tusks on their wall. I mean, we've all seen those pictures of these giant fat fucks holding a rifle, standing over a lion, and you're like,

this just looks wrong. It looks like American gluttony makes its way over to Africa and some guy shoots a line with a rifle. Now he's standing on its head, and he's going to put it on his wall in his fat fucking house somewhere. That bothers people. I get it. I get it, too. I mean, I'm not arguing that.

But you've got to fix Africa first, and you're not trying. So this idea that if you just leave all those animals alone and stop hunting them, everything's going to be fine. No, they're going to be wiped out. People have to look at it pragmatically first and then idealistically. Because pragmatically, you have to understand that these animals 20 years ago were on the verge of extinction. So many different antelopes, so many different what we would call game animals, animals that people eat, were on the verge of extinction until they started instituting these big hunting concessions and having people come in from Europe and America and hunting in Africa. Then the community started to prosper because if someone's paying, I don't know, how much

is it to shoot a Neil guy or something like that? Oh, maybe $1,500. So think of how many of those things get shot, and some of that money goes to the ranch, some of that money goes to the professional hunting guys, anti-poaching conservation efforts, and then you have unprecedented numbers. There's more of those animals today than there have been in decades. Yeah. And it's all because people put value on them.

Yeah, it's all about the animals have to have value. And people say, no, well, the animal has value being alive. It's like, okay. Well, it does to you. It does to you if you don't live over there, if you're not poor and your children aren't starving to death. A picture of a lion is amazing, okay? And that animal is beautiful.

There's value in it being alive. But you got to understand those people need to eat. They need to work. So if they're not working for the hunting concession, if the hunting concession goes out of business, like the largest one in Tanzania did after 40 years, what are they going to do? They can't go get a job at the mill. You know what I mean? There's no, there's nothing, there's not industry over there. So what happens is they, some of those people, and I don't know for a fact, but I would, I'm going to make an educated guess, that they would go from working as anti-poaching officers or helping keep the animals alive as part of the anti-poaching program straight to poaching.

Yeah, well, that's happened back and forth both ways, right? Yeah. Former poachers became anti-poaching officers when the opportunity presented itself. And they were great ones because they knew how it worked. Right. And they knew where the weaknesses were. And that saved animals. But it's just like, it's sad because that, you know, that last two months without that hunting concession there, without the anti-poaching program in place, I guarantee it's been a slaughter.

The animals that were being protected are now just being slaughtered by poachers. And again, the difference between looking at things pragmatically and looking at things idealistically. Idealistically, we would like all those people in Africa to have plenty of food and plenty of opportunity for employment and plenty of things to do with their life, but they don't. Yeah. And the situation that had emerged with these hunting concessions is superior to the situation that's in place now.

Yeah. And it's also superior for the animals themselves, including the lions. In Zimbabwe, they had to kill – look this up, Jamie. Because they had to cull, I think it was something along the lines of 200 lions recently because they had decimated the undulate population because they weren't kept in check. The way the balance of nature works out is you have to have a balance between predator and prey. The only way to keep the balance of predator is humans. That's it. It's the only thing that exists unless they keep it.

Yeah. of predator is humans. That's it. It's the only thing that exists unless they keep, yeah. Zimbabwe Wildlife Reserve will call 200 lions to control a population explosion claiming hunters have been scared off

by the outcry over Cecil the lion. The whole thing is so weird because what people just jump on it. You know, you watch the Lion King. Oh, Simba. No, don't kill Simba. And oh, Cecil, he's got a name. And all this craziness,

it got to such a weird point where there was this discussion about Cecil's brother that Cecil's brother got killed Jericho and they were like oh my god they killed Jericho and then people were relieved because they found it was a different lion and it wasn't Cecil's brother Jericho so this is like they're watching a goddamn reality show it's like keeping Keeping Up with the Kardashians in Africa. Like, what do you give a shit what the fucking name of the African lion is? You're crazy. It's not Jericho. Oh, it's Michael the lion.

So it's okay? That's crazy. He's still a fucking lion. But this shows you this first world view of this wildlife situation that is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. I think part of it, like with that, the whole cease the lion thing, it gave people a purpose. It's like, oh, I have something to stand for. I have a purpose now. And that's where I know people are struggling out there finding what's my purpose?

What am I doing? You know, and they're spinning their wheels. They don't, I don't know what they do, but that gave them something to fight for yeah and it wasn't right it didn't help anything it hurt those 200 lions could have been 50 000 each to a hunter 10 million dollars that went to zimbabwe stayed there or at least employed people. But no, they were killed and there was no gain. Yeah, it still sucks. All across the board it sucks.

The whole situation sucks. These weird high fence operations where they let lions loose and then they let them out of the cage and then people show up that day and the lions don't know what the fuck's going on and they shoot this lion and then stand up. That sucks too. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck's going on. And they shoot this line and then stand up. That sucks too. Yeah. I don't like that. The whole thing is weird. It's not.

Look, wildlife in Africa and high fence wildlife is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. And these animals that were going extinct and now aren't because people were hunting them. It's fucking strange. That's a strange balance. Yeah. Like the only reason they exist is so people can come over there and shoot them like we don't i don't i don't want that i mean i would like them to just exist well the thing yeah but people aren't going to contribute

that money to pay for the anti-poaching just to go take a picture it's like if you go it's just not going to happen if you go to the Missouri Breaks or something like that, and you go hunting mule deer, that's what I like. I like animals that exist because they're there. This is their spot. This is where they are. If you go to the Missouri Breaks and you go up into those hills and look for mule deer, those fuckers have been there for thousands of years. Those fuckers have been there for thousands of years. I mean, they have found skulls of deer, of white-tailed deer in Florida that are two million years old.

They're the exact same animal, two million years ago. So for millions of years, longer than there have been human beings, those things have been in that form, running around North America and wherever the fuck they can. That's what I like. I like that too. But don't forget that hunting has played a part in keeping those numbers healthy. You know, the deer and the elk, there's more deer.

There's no big game animal in North, big game animals in North America now than there were a hundred years ago. And that's through hunting and conservation. That is true. But it's also because 150 years ago, people went fucking ham. Yeah. ham and wiped out most of them. I mean, it was real bad when they were doing market hunting before refrigeration.

Exactly. But we've learned from that. We learned, okay, this is how we need to do it. This is how hunting fits in this equation. And that's where, you know, we talked about the International Wildlife Conservation Council. That's given me a way in to talk about a bunch of other things, too. So one of those, and we talk about animals in North America, is Ryan Zinke, who's the Secretary of Interior.

He created this new, I guess it's a bill. I'm not like this political expert. I'm a bellhunter, right? I wear a flannel shirt and baseball hat. But he did create this, I'm going to call it a bill, but that protects the winter, we call them wildlife corridors. So it's where the animals can go from the summer range to the winter range where there's not going to be development there. So he created that because that's how those animals, like in Montana, make it through the winter. If they're up in the summer, they make it through getting into fall, and then all of a sudden winter hits.

They have to have a way down into the low country to where they can, their winter migration to where they can survive the snow and where they can make down and there's good feed down there. If there's gas rigs or mineral extraction efforts going on that impede that, then they might get hung up up there and get stuck in the snow and die. So he realizes that. He realized the need for that. He created this new program that's going to make sure that there's no development in there. It keeps those corridors open and that's that's why our numbers do so well is because there's people like that

with the vision on keeping our animals healthy well this is another thing that we talked about uh on the flight that i think is important to bring up remember when there was this talk about the state monument or the national monument in utah and Patagonia put that thing on their page, the president stole your land. Explain what actually happened, because it's not what everybody thinks it is. And Ranella said it best, that if you say the president stole your land, you're not being accurate with your words. No. That's not what happened.

Patagonia did an awesome marketing job. I mean, in those efforts, by saying the president stole your land from what I've heard resulted in a 15 percent increase in business for them. So it worked great. But what the truth is, is a lot of people felt like Obama when he before he left office did an overreach on the National Monument protection. And so there's protecting the National Monument, which is a certain area. He wanted to encompass 2 million acres in that National Monument designation, which seems excessive. What Zinke says, the Secretary of Interior, he went in there and he said, that's an excessive, that's an overreach. I want to scale it back to what it was before Obama did that. Now, why is it excessive, though? This is what gets confusing to people. People think that

protecting land is never excessive. Right. What he wants to do is make sure people have access. And it's like, okay. So what's the difference between the way it is under Obama and the way it is under Zinke? Zinke scaled it back to what it was before, which that would be, it's still national forest, still federal land, but you'd be able to, and I'm not sure if it, if it was wilderness or how the access would be, but what Zinke would say is that like, I would be able to go into the land all the time. That two million acres because I might be considered by some to be elite. You know, because I can walk for 20 miles. Not everybody in the United States can walk 20 miles to get somewhere.

So they want to put road systems. There's road systems already. There's road systems already, but. Wants to maintain the roads. So, but if it was a national monument. Right. Then no road systems? Like what is the difference?

I think the road systems would be gated off and it'd be walking walking only foot track traffic only instead of access through the roads now why did obama make it two million acres i don't know and close off the roads i'm not sure so it's still federal land so it's not like the government sold the land off no and no mining permits have been issued there's no plans to drill or anything like that no when i when i looked that up because i was unsure about it and i talked with zinky about it just because it's you know i'm learning all this as we go also and i was concerned when when i read the president's told your land i'm like what's

this about um and so uh what what it is is what he what zinke wants to do is he wants to just make sure people of not all abilities because it's not like we want roads on every mountain but have access to to national forests so people that can drive in four by fours you know those little off-road ranger trucks. On existing roads. Yeah. On existing roads. And it's just like National Forest now. National Forest now has roads. Right.

Right? Designated wilderness areas because then I talked about that too. I'm like, well, okay, I understand access. I said, that's great. I want people to be able to enjoy the great outdoors also. But I also grew up hunting the Eagle Cap Wild which is oregon's largest wilderness area 356 000 acres of no roads and i don't want roads in there right i don't want access in the middle of the heart of that wilderness because some of the most pristine beautiful country in the lower 48 i like it like that so

we still need to be able to protect those areas but this wasn't in this one this is bear's ears and in utah this wasn't changing anything opening up anything or this big nefarious plan of of mining and stripping everything out of everybody's worry right right they were but all it did it went back to what it was before and at that time when i researched it there had been no mining permits. From what I understand is there is no – there's minerals in there, but not enough to warrant going in there and setting up a full mineral extraction mine and building roads. The only reason that they changed the distinction is to allow people to have more access to that wilderness through roads that already exist. It wouldn't be wilderness.

It would be national forest. Okay. The federal lands, yeah. It'd be national forest. Okay. The federal lands. Yeah. So why the uproar then? Why is everybody so confused? Is it a lack of communication? Is it a lack of understanding about what the difference in the distinctions of the two

things are? It's just creating, you know, a negative narrative. It's saying it's something changed. You know, Obama had it this way uh zinke scaled it back that right there is like why what's going on not really doing the research about he's not he's just putting it back to what it was because he thought that it was a overreach by obama so it's just you know these these outfits they're in business. You know, if everything's going good, there's really no reason for people to get fired up and contribute money.

You know, some of these, it's political in some respects. Business is political. That's very cynical, though. I see what you're saying, but I think that really what's going on is people are very concerned. And they see any movement and change, they freak out. People are concerned but even the businesses like patagonia's business is about the outdoors that's their whole business yeah so they see anything that's changed and the trump administration especially in the beginning when it came in people were really worried about them in terms of environmental concerns right because they had opened up offshore drilling they had done a lot of things that people were really freaked out about.

They had opened up, what was the area, Jamie, in Alaska where they were going to open up drilling that was near salmon runs that people were very, very concerned about? They were concerned about the idea of money above nature. Yeah. And then- I was, me too. Right. And who's making that money?

You're not making money. No. I'm not making any of that money. So someone else is going to make money off of what's supposed to be our land and our public land, which you and I could maybe go, even though you don't like salmon, we could go salmon fishing in this land. Well, it could get fucked up by someone else making billions of dollars in oil or natural gas or whatever the fuck

we do if they contaminate that. I don't want that. No, I don't want that. You don't want that either. And the people from Patagonia don't want that either. So when they see something like this come up, their red flags go up. They want to get people outraged. They want to get people activated because they think that there might be a chance that

if you protest enough, you can stop something like this happening before it does. Right. Because if you do look at like what happened in Alaska with that big oil spill in the 80s or what happened with the BP oil spill in the Gulf Coast, like that shit's devastating. Yeah, for sure. When something like that does happen, someone else is profiting, making fucking billions of dollars while our planet that we all share is getting fucked up. You're not making a nickel off of it.

I'm not making a nickel off of it. But they're making billions of dollars and they're fucking up the land and by the government by trump or anybody else whoever's opening it up giving them access to drill right to do all this thing you open up the possibility of ruining something that's amazing well so there's always going to be a balance, though. You can't just say, okay, nobody can drive past this point forever. You know what I mean? But you're saying that about the Eagle Cap Wilderness. You don't want them to drive past that. There's got to be areas.

There's got to be areas we have to protect, wilderness areas. But, for example, where we've elk hunted in Colorado, right, big bulls, awesome elk hunting. There's natural gas wells all over. It's great elk hunting. Yeah, they've got to figure it out. So there's a balance. Yeah, they're not fucking it up. I don't want things wiped out in a huge mineral extraction mine where there used to be beautiful whatever. I don't want that.

Beautiful rivers that are polluted now. But you can't just say we're not doing anything anywhere. It doesn't work. So there can be a balance, just like where we've hunted in Colorado. There can be a balance. But the real concern that the average person has, me included, is that someone is going to profit. And by doing that, where it's not going to benefit you or anybody we know, it's going to fuck it up for everybody else. Yeah.

That's the real concern. No, for sure. I know. we know it's going to fuck it up for everybody else yeah that's the real concern no for sure i know that's why i've tried to you know that's why i've wanted to be involved like yeah i'm on that council which has nothing to do with public lands in north america but it's giving me a way to get in there and try to learn more that's all i'm trying to do well you also were involved with when jason chavitz had that proposal in utah sell off chunks of public land, you were one of the people that sat down with him and got his take on it. And ultimately, because the outcry from people who love the outdoors and hunters and fishermen, that was stopped. Yeah, it was.

Which is very interesting. And Jason, he took a lot of shit, but he seems like a very reasonable guy. I think so, too. He's out of politics now. What is he doing? He's on Fox News. Oh, he's a correspondent now? Yeah.

So he's completely, he's a congressman out of Utah. And I went back to D.C. and talked to him. That was H.R. 622. And that was, they wanted to just what they determined disposable public land. And I'm like, okay, wait a second. Who says what's disposable? Because what's disposable to you might not be to me. Maybe it's a great hunting area.

So I didn't really like there wasn't really a way to determine what was disposable. That's what caught my attention. And other, not just mine, but even people like Steve Ornella and a lot of people in the loop and in the know. And I got advice from, um, let's see, Randy Newberg, Steve Vernella, Joel Webster at the, uh, uh, theater Roosevelt concert, uh, conservation program. All those guys are really experts in the field. Backcountry hunters and anglers. I didn't talk to them.

I did. All those people were super active about getting people to complain and protest this. And so that one, I did get a chance to go back there and I did a podcast with Chaffetz. And yeah, he pulled it. It was gone. Never happened. But yes, that's, I mean, we just need to be educated on it. And I just don't like the, I don't know, without that education, jumping on the bandwagon and saying, yeah, the president stole my land. Is that even true?

Well, you know, I always defer to Ronello when it comes to things like this because he's so well versed in it. So when he said that you're not being accurate with your words. I had to look into it deeper, but I didn't really understand it totally until I was talking to you and you were explaining to me the distinction between how it was before Obama was in office, what Obama changed and then bringing it back to how it was before. So it's still federal land. No one sold it off. It's not,

it's just giving people more access through roads, but amazing how when something like that happens, this is gigantic outcry yeah and everybody freaks out yeah it's uh it's confusing it can be confusing because i'll read two different things and i'll be like oh my god what is it this or is it that going on i don't know yeah so that's where i you know and people say oh well zinky he was lying to your face i'm like uh i don't know maybe but on video yeah i doubt it i i don. He doesn't seem like that guy. He seems like he's a straight shit.

You know, I asked him about, he was getting beat up because the National Parks Advisory Board wouldn't, he wouldn't meet with them. That's what it was. And so he got, you know, Zeke doesn't care about national parks and he won't meet with the advisory board. And and so I asked him about that because that was in the news. And that was just like, man, he maybe he doesn't care about public land. You know, I mean, I didn't know what was going on. So I wanted to ask him about that. I'm like, well, they resigned in protest because you wouldn't meet with him.

What was that? And he goes, well, yeah, you're right. I wouldn't meet with him. He goes, here's how it went. goes, Well, yeah, you're right. I wouldn't meet with them. He goes, Here's how it went. I came in as Secretary of Interior and in charge of I don't know how many different councils just like the international one I'm on and this park advisory board that we're talking about. And there's, I think 200 and some

that he's, he really I think he over I don't even know that thousands of employees, billions of dollars. And all he asked was for these advisory boards, he wanted a report written up that said, what have you done in the last two years? What are you working on now? And what's your goals for the next two years? Once you provide me with that report, then I'll get up to speed and I'll meet with you. They never did it. So he didn't meet with them. And that was it. So the story was he wouldn't meet with them, and they resigned in protest. But the other half of the story was he asked them to do something so he could get up to speed and be educated on what's going on, and he never supplied it.

Well, if they are the typical government employees, and what is the typical government employee? Incompetent, lazy. Wait, I'm a government employees. And what is the typical government employee? Incompetent, lazy. Wait, I'm a government employee. Keep going. Typical. Oh, typical. What do people think of? What do people think of?

They think of incompetent, lazy, entitled. Bureaucrats. Yeah, and they've got this job. And all of a sudden he's asking them to provide not not just tell them what they've done but tell them what they're going to do and provide like a framework for the future that make that's a lot of work yeah when someone's a lazy fuck if you're just kind of half-assing your job and just showing up and i'm not saying they are yeah i don't know i don't know also they might have resented him for whatever their preconceived notions of who he is coming into this job.

They were, I don't know if all 12 of them. I think there's 12, but I think they were all Democrat. Oh, the son of a bitches. So, I mean, obviously he's a Republican. They're all unpaid volunteers also. Unpaid, right. Unpaid volunteers. Yeah, and I'm an unpaid volunteer on that council.

It's like you don't do this for money. You do it to make a difference. Yeah, but if they're going to be a volunteer, even if they're an unpaid volunteer, and if he asks you to have a plan, you should probably have a plan. Otherwise, why are you doing it? Because I guarantee you there's someone out there that would have a plan. Yeah. And look, especially when it comes to something that's important as national parks and public land, things that are like really dear and important to people. Yeah. And look, especially when it comes to something that's important as national parks

and public land, things that are like really dear and important to people. Yeah. This, this is something that, you know, you want to have whoever these volunteers are, if you're going to appoint them, you want to have the best ones for the job. Right. So asking someone to write a plan up and that's, if that's the only reason, see, it's tough because we don't have their take on it. Well, I I've I read what they wrote and what did they write they just said that he wouldn't meet with them and whatever so he wouldn't meet with them

until they did what he asked they didn't say that he told me that but that's what he said right yeah well that makes sense yeah I mean I'm kind of in his camp that's if we're looking at it 100% accurately yeah no and he told me face toto-face, that's what happened. So, I mean, you can say, well, I don't believe anybody.

I don't believe what you just told me. At some point, you have to be like, man, it seemed like he was telling me the truth, and I believe it, and that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense that they would not want to do that. You know? Yeah. What have you been working on? Well, I check my email and go on Facebook when i'm at work sometimes i look at pine cones yeah so i mean to me he seems like hard working pretty demanding um but he cares i mean he's in there trying to

so the secretary of interior before zinke, I had no. I'm like, what? I don't even know what that is. You know, so that's what that's what kind of involvement that person had in hunter in the lives of hunting people like me or fishermen. And so when I didn't know who it wasn't come to find out her name was Sally Jewell, who is Obama's appointee before Trump appointed Zinke. So I like the fact that Zinke's at SHOT Show. He's had me out there. I'm on this council.

At least I have a seat at the table to say, and I might get kicked off this council. I might never get invited back because I'll ask him, so what's going on with this? But right now I have a seat at the table. So whatever. I consider that a win. At least I can try to find out and learn. Yeah, it's an interesting thing because everything that I've heard about him that I've read in the media, unless I'm reading like a hunting website or something like that. Everything I've heard is like that it's a horror show, that he's bringing on all these trophy hunters,

and there was an article equating you with being a trophy hunter, and that this council that he's put together is just this disgusting sort of justification for trophy hunting, and that they're only putting it together so that wealthy people can bring back their elephants that they shoot in Africa. Yeah, yeah, I've read that too. I mean, for me, and I'm not, I've never killed an elephant, I've never killed a lion. And every person, so even the people on the council that have, they do care about animals.

They care, they're volunteers, just like on the Parks Advisory Board. And they want to make a positive difference. You know, I know every person on that i don't know every person personally but i know they care about the people of africa and that's why they understand how it works they've been there they've seen it um the guys who i've hunted with there personally awesome people hard-working people the the one guy on my last trip there to Tanzania, his daughter was in college,

and he'd been a professional hunter over there for over 20 or 30 years, and she was going to college now getting her degree. I mean... Well, let's explain. A professional hunter over there is not what we think about it over here. What we think of over here,

a professional hunter would be a guy who hunts. Oh, yeah, right. A professional hunter is essentially a guide. A guide. guide yeah they call them phs or professional hunters so i mean because of hunting he's able to send his his daughter to college and i mean and now that's gone yeah i mean i'm not saying every person a lot of them a lot of them yeah and they're it's not getting any better because right now so that that policy, Trump said, well, we're going to review it on a case-by-case basis. So he didn't say, okay, it's legal. Now everybody can hunt and go and bring their trophies back.

He said, we'll review each one on a case-by-case basis. So that still doesn't make it that good for a hunter because they say, well, I'm not going to book a hunt. If I don't know for a fact, I can bring my trophy back. Yeah. So it's not really that much better. Well, just saying that freaks people out. Like trophy, like you're saying trophy, it's an animal. It's an animal's life and you're going to bring it back. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like that distinction is one of the things that triggers people. Well, trophy. So, I mean, I see heads on your wall right here. Yeah. That's a trophy but also you ate the meat of that elk oh yeah so i mean it's not like you can't be both a trophy hunter and hunt for meat i understand that but most people are not bringing back lion meat

no they're not right but it's also not mutually exclusive to be a trophy hunter and eat the meat. Or on the elephants, none of that meat is going to waste on an elephant. That's true. That's what people don't understand. The elephants, they actually taste good. There was a documentary. Yeah, I haven't had elephant. I mean, I've had crocodile and I haven't had lion over there.

had crocodile and i've haven't had lion over there but uh um i um that meat is i mean the villagers that live there man it's they they need it and i there was a documentary on cnn recently called trophy and i remember there's a scene in there where the hunter shot an elephant and it wasn't a big one and the people were making fun of him for shooting they're like he's this small they wanted a big elephant with lots of meat yeah okay so he he got his quote trophy they wanted more meat so it's like you can have both and that that's i'll say trophy hunting because guys aren't going over there for the meat i get it i mean that's not why you go to africa you're going for the trophy but also that that meat isn't going to waste yeah the meat is going to the villagers it's not like they're going to let it rot and these people i've seen it i've seen videos of

it it's crazy they show up with baskets on their head filled with elephant meat and they're carrying around like 150 pounds of meat on their head yeah mean, it's really nuts when you watch these people just run in and get chunks of this elephant and they need it. It's really important protein for them. Yeah. The solution is very, very complicated. Africa is such an enormous place and the poverty is so intense and the options are so limited for these people.

This is not like a simple, like ban the trophy hunting and the animals will live peacefully in the forest to tweet, tweet, bird, bird. That's not what's going to happen. Everything dies. Yeah. It's not just that. Everything over there is really complicated. And I always tell people to watch the Louis Theroux documentary.

He did a thing on this hunting thing in Africa and he was over there for a long time. And when he was over there, you got a sense because he's Louis Theroux is a really fascinating British documentary guy. Yeah. And, you know, he, he asked fantastic questions and he's, he's really polite and he like kind of pesters them over and over and over again until he gets to the heart of the matter. But at the end of the documentary, you realize, like, this is complex. This is not as simple as, hey, these mean people want to go over there and kill animals and treat them as objects. The whole place is kind of, it's very, very confused. Yeah.

Like, it's a mess. There's a video right now. Jamie could probably find it. But so there's, I think there's three hunters, and they're over there. I can't remember if they have bows and arrows or spears. But what they do, this lion kills an animal. For them to get meat, they run in there. And chase off the lion.

And chase off the lion and steal the meat. I've seen that. Cut the leg off the, I can't remember if it was a wildebeest. I can't remember what it was. Cut the leg off of it and get out of there before the lions. Because lions, if you run at a lion, sometimes they'll be like, whoa, that's weird. And they'll back off. And then before they figure it out, they'll be like, wait a second, I can kill you.

But in that hesitation time, they try to cut off that leg and get out of there. But in that hesitation time, they try to cut off that leg and get out of there. So, you know, when you're here in America making decisions for people like that, it's like, I got a problem with that. Yeah. Yeah. What you said makes a lot of sense that it's a first world perspective on a third world problem where people are literally starving to death yeah they're trying to figure out how to get food to survive they need protein that protein is like gold back there yeah it's um yeah this is it this is the video and this is on discovery channel we can't show it but these

people are running in it's on human planet if you want to watch it i think it's on netflix or okay a couple places yeah it's pretty intense so the lion the lion's basically covered with blood it's crazy i mean they the lions just don't know what to do they see these people walking at them with look like weapons and they just take a chance and bolt but what a fucking chance that is yeah yeah so they got those are bows and arrows. It looks like these things, I know staring at them. Yeah.

And they're super intense. What's that video. It's a title, Jamie. Oh, stealing plants, stealing meat from lions. Check it out.

So, I mean, until I don't, I'm obviously not, everybody's going to go do this, but you need to watch this just to get an idea of how rough it is it's just you know the the measures i'll take to get some protein yeah i mean that whole cecil the lion thing just created this uproar if you steal to kill and nobody is hurt that's when you can relax

jesus christ yeah there he goes to feel happy he goes with a hindquarter slung over his shoulders yeah and he's gonna feed his family and so to me you know hunters in are vilified by a large majority of the population here whereas we've said before 90s 96 percent of america eats meat and hunters are the ones out there getting to themselves. And like, I remember that last buck I killed, um, and Lanai took care. I was like meticulous on taking care of that meat. And as I, I gutted the animal, as I took the bladder out, I can't remember how, what happened, but like a drop of urine dropped on a tiny little piece of the back ham. And I was just like, what?

I was not happy and because that meat is to me it's everything it's everything for the hunt and i was so disappointed in myself but i mean obviously the meat's still good but that i i want to be perfect when i'm when i'm taking care of it meanwhile there's people that eat 96 96% of people eat meat, and we throw away what's been figured 40% of our food. Yeah, food waste is insane in this country, and I think Anthony Bourdain just did a documentary on it, right? I don't think it's out yet, but he did a documentary on food waste. waste so i'm worried about one little tiny piece of meat on an animal i killed and people who throw away 40 of of what they buy into the garbage they're judging me yeah well there's a lot of that out there man it's it's real easy to be negative you know that's one thing like like i said about put up my post about lanai i just saw like a couple negative comments i'm like i'm not

even reading this stuff like go have at it folks wait just walk away how did you how did you know what they said if you didn't read them because i put it up and i saw it immediately afterwards so you read it i read like a half a second of it but my point is that people will be negative yeah because it's easy to do because they're douchebags well they don't even look they're not even thinking it through it's like yeah you fucking just like killing animals people like to just make a statement or get a reaction or push a button or fuck with you yeah they want they want a reaction that's all it is so you can do one of two things you could ignore it you can interact with them and argue with them back and forth you could block the comments yeah all those things are kind of fucked yeah just sucks it's uh i've i've god

i've been pretty frustrated i've whatever i'm not gonna say i don't read them because obviously i read them but i get frustrated man it's just hunting i don. People just don't understand hunting because even hunters will say, I'll say I don't enjoy the kill and I don't enjoy the kill. I enjoy getting meat that I can feed my family myself. You don't enjoy the kill in that. It's not like, yeah, this is awesome. But it is like, oh, it's a relief. It feels good that your hard work paid off.

It feels good that all the ethical consideration that you put into making a perfect shot is all worked out. And the amount of work that's involved in making, you know, a 70-yard shot. 70 yards is a long fucking way to hit an animal perfectly. Yeah. And then to have it die in seconds and then to get that meat. There's an enjoyment that comes out of it. There's a good feeling, but it's not like shooting a three-pointer at the buzzer to

win the championships and everybody's jumping up in the air. It's not fun. People say, well, killing is fun. It's like, no, it's not fun. For me, it's not fun at all. I killed two bucks, made two perfect shots. They went not far, down in seconds, and that was a huge relief to me. That's why I do what I do every single day.

And like I said, I posted on it to be merciful. And I don't enjoy when I'm not as perfect as I want to be. And I killed a bull last year in Colorado. I was with Johnny Hamilton, which you know Johnny. And he was back cow calling here. This bull comes up the hill. He stops at 15 yards. And I hit him perfect, right behind the shoulder, perfect.

He ran down, stopped at 30, hesitated again. I already had another arrow on boom hit him right beside the first first hole and i'm like that bull i was so convinced he was down and i was just like oh man that that felt good got two in him perfect through the lungs he's going to be done in seconds he wasn't done in seconds and i And I don't know what happened, whether it was testosterone, because he's coming off the hill. He's bugling. He was super fired up. So I don't know what was going on.

But it ended up it wasn't as quick a kill as what I have in my mind, what I prepare for, what I'm happy accepting. And Johnny knows I wasn't happy. I was just like, I was so disappointed. How long did it stay alive for? I don't know, maybe 20 minutes. 20 minutes? Something like that. Wow, that's crazy.

Yeah. How is that possible? I don't know. I have no idea. They're so tough. That's incredible. No, it really bothered me. I don't know. I have no idea. They're so tough. That's incredible. No, it really bothered me. It upset me. I was disappointed with myself.

But there's nothing you could have done better, right? I don't know. I don't think. But if you made a perfect shot. I felt like it was perfect. But if it's perfect, the animal's dead in in 10 seconds right so i don't know but when i watched it i've killed a lot of bulls i've went through the process a lot i would take those two shots on any animal any time and feel 100 confident he was going to go 50 yards um that was something that i was really concerned about when we filmed that Under Armour hunt in Utah. Yeah. Because I was like, man, this is going to be on video.

This is, you know, it's a big animal. You know, it's a big deal. I want to make sure that this thing, that it's a perfect hit. Yeah. You know, and so the feeling of relief that I got when I saw that it was a perfect pass through and that the arrow, it was bleeding on both sides. Yeah. The exact spot I wanted to hit. Yeah.

And to watch him wobble away like on very unsteady legs, walk to about 20, 30 yards and then tipped over. Yeah. That's an amazing feeling of relief, but it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good. It's not fun. No, it's not fun. No. There's a feeling of accomplishment,

but also of remorse. Yeah. And they're tied in together. Yeah. And for the animal, like with a bow, with a perfect shot, you know,

on these bucks that I killed, they didn't know I was there. So it was just, I know they didn't feel, it wasn't like there's a rifle report and bone shattering and they're dying from trauma. They're dying from hemorrhage. Like your bull in Utah that took off, his legs were wobbly because of blood pressure. He had a blood pressure loss because of hemorrhage. That's not painful. And so that was a perfect scenario.

That's what we prepare for. And that's, that's our goal. And when it doesn't work like that, that bothers me. And so when people chime in on your page or, or on my page and these uneducated comments, trying to, trying to tell me how I feel or why I do what I do, man, that does not make me happy. No, but I understand. The ability to comment on things is a very strange thing because the ability to talk to people is very difficult. It's very difficult to have an audience, to sit in front of someone, to pick a person, a famous – like Morgan Freeman, to sit down across, I don't know why I picked Morgan Freeman,

but it's very hard. Donald Trump. It's very hard to be in front of him. Yeah. To be able to sit down and talk to someone and to look them in the eyes, you would choose your words properly and you would have a conversation.

But if you just like, what's on your face, bro? Like you could just, what's all those black spots on your face, you dumb fuck? You could just put that on Twitter. Right. And it's easy. It's easy. And so it's a human being communicating with another human being and saying something insulting.

And it's so incredibly easy to do. It's too easy. Yeah, I think so. We don't really understand what we're doing with that. There's something about the fact that 90, I think it's 97% actually eat meat somewhere in the range and maybe 3% do it themselves. 3%. What do you think it is nationwide? If you had to pick nationwide, how many people nationwide kill their own food? Is it even 5%?

Okay. Well, there's, I know because I looked this up because I was curious how many people I'm reaching on Instagram. So there's 13 million licensed hunters. 13 million. 13 million. How many – isn't there 300 and some – how many people are in America? I think it's 320. Is it 320 somewhere in the range?

320 million? Yeah. So what is that? Under 5%? Yeah. Yeah what is that? Under 5%? Yeah. Yeah. It's not a lot. It's a very small amount.

And how many of them are only eating that? How many of them are spending so much time hunting that they can live off of the meat that they kill themselves only? It's one, maybe 1%. Not even. I saw people, like we had a picture of your freezer back here full filled with meat and they're like you know saying you couldn't eat that i thought you you know you're just killing what you need to eat but so that's just some people those people don't know what the fuck they're talking about i do eat it i eat all of it and i'll go through that whole freezer in a few months right and i give it away to a lot of my friends. That was the key is that I was going to say is every guest that comes, you ask if they

want game meat and they take that fucking mooch. He comes over here constantly. He's like, I need more steak. Yeah. More meat. Yeah. Well, I give it to a lot of my friends. Have you seen his body?

He's jacked. He's a monster spot. Yeah. Right. Right. Yes. He's a beast. So I was, I thought he ate steaks like all day, every day.

If you ask him, he'll say he does. I eat elk. Yeah. His quads. Yeah. All the, everything. Top to bottom. But I mean, I give meat away to a lot of my friends and they love it.

It's like, it's fucking hard to get elk meat. Where are you going to get it? I see a lot of people send me messages that they want to know what this whole elk meat thing is about so they they want to be involved they want to know where can i buy elk because they don't hunt or they want to start hunting but uh yeah one that's what we talked about when we loaded up my deer in your freezer yeah to freeze it is that you know hunters are providers it's that's a big uh It feels good to be able to give people meat and food. To me, it's everything.

Yeah. It's either to feed my family or to give my friends or my extended family meat that I've harvested. That is, to me, that's as good as it gets. Yeah. I had Michael Hunter on the podcast recently. To me, that's as good as it gets. Yeah, I had Michael Hunter on the podcast recently. He's the chef that runs that restaurant, Antler, in Toronto, and they're getting protested by vegans. I gave him a bunch of meat, and he cooked it and put it up on Instagram.

And he was like, this is so awesome. And it made me feel so good to look at these delicious meals that this guy prepared, who's a professional chef, with meat from an animal that I killed. I give away a lot of that meat, but I eat it every day. Do you? I eat almost every day. I eat some sort of game meat. Yeah. If I'm home, that's what I eat.

Yeah. Well, we ate a bunch in Lanai. I know that. Yeah. And what are those sticks called? Oh, what Bob the Butcher makes. He calls them axis jacks. Axis jacks.

He makes like a- It's like pepperoni. Yeah, like a pepperoni out of axis deer. It's sensational. Sensational. He's a really good butcher too. Like what he's done with all the cuts and label them all. And he gives you an envelope that has all of the recipes of how you should cook each individual cut.

Yeah. It's awesome, man. Yeah. It makes me feel- Look, I never saw any of this when I was a kid. I grew up in the city. I used to fish. I used to eat fish that I caught, but I never was involved in hunting at all

until I was in my 40s. So when I see comments from people that probably grew up the way I grew up, they don't get it. They're never involved. But yet they're eating meat. And it's just, it's because no one's holding them accountable for what they're saying. And because it's easy to say, oh, you got a little dick.

You want to kill that animal because you got a little dick. So dumb. It's so common. So dumb though. Imagine if that's what it meant. Like if you have a little, if you have a little dick, you just want to go out and kill. There'd be a lot of death out there. It's a lot of little dicks. we should show them just to prove prove really wrong

hey let's look at that uh bear attack the selfie poor bastard we forgot to do that well that was one of the weird things that we were talking about how warning graphic content man mauled by bear while taking a selfie with it go Go full screen on this, please. Oh, my God. This stupid fuck. So this bear apparently was injured, and this dumbass in India decided he was going to go and take a selfie with it. Oh, he's hitting it. Oh, he's hitting it. Oh, you stupid fuck. Oh, no, it's got the guy.

That's why. Oh, it does? Yeah, they're hitting it because it's got the guy. He's already fucking this guy up. God. So there's a bear in India? Yeah, they have bears. Oh. Oh, it does? Yeah, they're hitting it because it's got the guy. He's already fucking this guy up. God. So there's a bear in India? Yeah, they have bears. Oh.

Look at it. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's not good. No. That's... He's almost free. Look. That guy's got shitty jujitsu.

What he's got to do... Oh, see, look at that. Right there. You're free, bro. You're free. Oh. Oh, it's tearing his Right there. You're free, bro. You're free. Oh. Oh, it's tearing his hand apart. That is brutal.

Okay. You need to shut this off. The dog's like, bark, bark. Bark, bark. Oh, man. That's. Yeah, that's a shit way to go, folks. God, that looks terrible.

Yeah. Does no one have a fucking gun? Does no one have a knife? Does no one have a baseball bat? You can go and clonk that fucking thing in the head. Nobody's doing anything. Yeah. They're like, it's over.

We've lost him. Wow. Yeah. Is that the bear? Or. That's the bear? Is that what it says? I don't know why they would show it afterwards.

Eh, it just says what a bear looks like. Yeah, that's. It's just some stupid video of a bear in a zoo. Bad. Bad to take pictures with bears. It's a real common thing in Yellowstone. They have a real issue with that. People try to get real close to bears and take selfies with them.

I've done that before. Well, I think it's different. You've done it while bear hunting. Yeah, I did. But you've only done it with black bears. Yeah. You'd never turn your back on a grizzly like that no no no no but in black bear it's still still not safe i'm not gonna say it's

smart at all it's definitely not um yeah but it's uh you know you can read bears bears have uh personality or attitude just like dogs yeah and so it a, if there's an aggressive bear coming in, probably not going to turn my back. And yeah, I have one dog that I will let my kids that my, my Mastiff, my kids could ride that dog. They can do anything.

That dog is a loving dog. He loves everybody. Yeah. You know? And then I have another dog. That's a Shibu, you know, bulldog.

I don't let anybody fuck with him. He's the littlest dog too. He's an asshole. Like if you like try to get him to get up and get out of the house in the morning, he'll growl at you. Like, listen, motherfucker. Come on, go outside. Yeah. Are you growling, bitch? I'm like, come on, man.

I've had you for 14 years. Get up. Go out. He's just old. He's in pain a lot. It's really hard for him to get up. But the point is the other dog, I'm sure he's old too, but he's a sweetheart. He's got no aggression in him towards people. He's just a sweet, sweet dog. That's just personalities.

Bears are just like that. There's some bears that are cunts. Yeah, actually there's a petition out there about something about me, but it says, I took a selfie of a bear then killed it which is false the bear i took a selfie of i did not kill because it wasn't old enough yeah so just to dispel any rumors well those petitions are fascinating you know i mean people don't want you to kill bears here's the thing people don't they won't don't want animals to die they don't want you to kill animals how do you feel about animals killing animals because. People don't want animals to die. They don't want you to kill animals.

How do you feel about animals killing animals? Because if you don't want animals to die, one of the best ways to stop that is to kill bears. Yeah. But if you kill bears, they get more angry at you for killing bears, mountain lions, and lions than anything else. Maybe elephants, which don't kill anything. Total herb of wars. They kill people. Elephants do occasionally.

Yeah. But mostly when people do something stupid, like fuck with them. They don't go out of their way to kill people. I think they do. Nah. I doubt it. I think they kill people if people are just where they want to go. Like, hey, asshole, get the fuck out of my way.

That's killing them. How about you get away from the elephant? But, you know, the problem with that is like if you're growing crops, like we were saying, and the elephant starts eating your crops, you're like, get out of here. And the elephant's like, oh, excuse me? Yeah, stomp. Yeah. That's a rap kid. Elephants can be aggressive.

They can. But they're also fucked with constantly. And there's just something. To me, I like elephants. Yeah. I think they look awesome. They're cool. I'm glad they're real. I know they're they're real i know they're

smart i know they have like tight bonds in their community and you don't have to kill one of those to eat it i mean it's like there's plenty of other animals to eat it's like i just but if i was starving to death and i was living in a place that only had elephants for sure i'd kill an elephant yeah i mean if that was all i had to eat. Our friend Brian Stevens said it tasted delicious. He said he ate one in Africa. Did he? And he said it was like one of the most delicious steaks he's ever had in his life. And I was like, what?

Like, how is that possible? Endangered elephants and tigers kill one human a day in India as growing population squeezes habitat. Yeah, but this is a crazy situation, man. India is fucking so overpopulated. It is a very, very small place. What is he doing? Trying to get over that fence. Oh, he's tearing apart that car. Look at that shit.

1,000 human deaths since 2014. Wow. So they kill people. 1,000 human deaths in four years whilst tigers have killed 92 people in the same period of time. So elephants kill way more. Whoa, that's nuts. At the end of that bear selfie thing,

it said two other people were killed in that state in India, and they were both trying to take selfies with elephants. Fucking dipshits. When was I a kid? There's too many people in India. I mean, India is grossly overpopulated. India, I think, is smaller than the United States, right? Isn't it?

What size is India? I don't know. I think it's smaller than the contiguous United States, but it has a billion people in it. Yeah. It's slightly more than one-third the size. Oh, more than one-third the size. Okay. A billion is a lot.

Yeah. That's a lot of fucking people. Yeah. So they get triple what we have and a third the size. Yeah. That's a lot of fucking people. Yeah. So they get triple what we have and a third the size. Yeah. No, a third larger. Oh. That's what you're saying, right?

It says it's slightly more than one third the size of the USLB. So it's a third. A third our size? Yeah. I thought you were saying a third larger. That's what I thought I was saying too, but I just, I reread it and it.

Oh, that makes sense. Okay. A third of us, but has three times the people. Fuck. It's half the size of Russia. Oh, that makes sense. So it's a third of us, but has three times the people. Fuck. It's half the size of Russia. Oh my God. Yeah.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. A human a day is killed. That's crazy. How do you fix that place? You know? Yeah. That's, that's part of, um, I don't know.

There's Africa is some places in Africa. Also they, I know that because malaria medicine is good, people aren't dying from AIDS. There's a lot of people. How big is India compared to the USA? Look at this. India fits right in there. My favorite is how big is Africa? Go to how big is Africa?

Because Africa is hilarious. Look at that. USA, India, China, Eastern Europe, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, and Japan, and Great Britain all fit inside of Africa. Fuck that's big. Yeah, it's a big area. Fuck. Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah, it's a big area. Fuck. Yeah.

That is crazy. Africa's amazing, though. Man. That's crazy. When you look at that on a map, you're like, wow. Yeah. The Congo is as wide as America is. Just the Congo.

The true size of Africa. Man. And someone says, like, elephants are endangered in Africa. In some spots. Some spots, yeah. In some spots, they're overrun. It's just like grizzlies are endangered in L.A. They are really endangered in L.A.

Unless you go to these certain bars in Santa Monica Boulevard. Oh, God. They have bears for days. Oh, no. I didn't know that was a gay reference until recently. Who have you been hanging out with? Not gay not gay people i guess you don't hang around just you gotta just read oh read on these you don't have to hang out no no you don't have to hang out with them you don't have to actually go there like i need to know guys about gay well take your pants down first

hey speaking of i don't know what we're speaking of, but we need to talk about Kanye. Oh, Jamie's got crazy Kanye conspiracy theories slash theories. Well, first, so first of all, he's like, he came out for Trump recently. Sort of. He wore a Make America Great Again hat on, but he also called Trump a bald thief recently, too. He did? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He called him a bald crook or a bald thief. I think Kanye is a lunatic. Yeah. So I could care less what he says about anything. Jamie loves him. Jamie sleeps with a picture of Kanye under his pillow. Stop. Stop. No, I don't. People believe that shit. You think people a picture of Kanye under his pillow. Stop. People believe that shit. Do you think people believe that?

People believe everything you say about me. It's a pendant with his picture in it. Jamie's a big fan of two things. Nuclear weapons and Trump. He's not a study. Oh, God. Yeah.

He loves nuclear bombs and he loves physics class yeah so trump i've just been one before here's here's here's what i like i i well kanye's a lunatic but i do like candace owens who is also new on the scene in my fox news world you love that i love you love conservatives well and candace is just like she i walked in from work the other day, and I was like, started listening to Fox News is on, of course. I'm watching, I'm like, who the hell is this? You say Fox News is on, of course. Yeah.

Because Fox News is blaring propaganda through your house all the time. Do you ever switch it up, like have like CNN on in the bathroom? No, I do. Fox News on in the living room? I watch it all. I do watch CNN. Alex Jones says, tune in at 1.30 p.m. to watch InfoWars exclusive on Candace and Kanye. See, I don't like-

Oh, he's got an exclusive? I don't- That didn't happen. It's like a lie. What is he going to say? Featuring Candace and Kanye? I don't want to lump them in together. But is he talking about them?

Everyone thought they were going to be on his show together. It didn't happen. Infra Wars exclusive. He probably called them. Kanye, it's Alex Jones. I could care less what Kanye says. I like what Candace says. Well, Jamie thinks that all this wackiness with Candace Owens and Kanye

is really Kanye just getting people hyped up about the release of his new album, which will be out in a few months. So he's getting people fired up. You think that's what's happening, Jamie? Yeah, there's an internet conspiracy that's been not proven, because it can't be proven yet, but there's a long Twitter thread

and a few reports now on blogs or magazines, if you will, that sort of lead to an Andy Kaufman-esque type performance art piece that he's doing. Maybe bring up a conversation about some of these topics he's actually talking about, or maybe we'll find out when his album comes out if kanye is doing performance art then what's the point here's the here's the problem there's a certain amount of him that is undeniably insane and um you've seen that like that thing that jimmy kimmel mocked

where he had that little kid he used to do little kids saying things that Kanye said. And like he would have like. Oh, really? Yeah. Like he would have little kids saying the exact. I hate Jimmy Kimmel, by the way. Hate him? I hate him.

He's a nice guy. No. You met him. You like him. I like him a lot. I would. He's like. He cries about hunting.

What did he cry about? Lions? Seasol. Yeah. I don't know why. Maybe he's on medication. about lions sea salt yeah i don't know why maybe he's on medication sometimes guys take things and it ups their estrogen and they just get real watery oh my yeah i cry when people do really well that i feel like a bitch sometimes i cried when conor mcgregor was talking about the support

he gets from ireland i had to hold back the tears did you being honest i was being honest i was interviewing him and he started talking about the love i get from these people from ireland like god that must be amazing oh that actually yeah no i i get that i get that that's different than jimmy though crying like drumming up stupid stuff for cecil the lion yeah the lion thing is weird the lion thing is weird you know there was a great article that was in the new york times Zimbabwe where you don't cry for lions. Right. It happened right after that. Yeah.

This guy was talking about his family members that were killed by lions. Yeah. We have a very idealistic view of what a lion is. And I'm a big fan of lions. I love that they're real. I love that they exist. I love that you can see videos of them. One of my favorite documentaries of all time is a documentary called Relentless Enemies.

And it's about this one pack of lions that got a river changed its path and they got stranded on an island. And this one pack of lions grew enormous because all they have to hunt is water buffalo. So instead of this variety of different game animals, all they have to hunt is these buffalo. So instead of this variety of different game animals, all they have to hunt is these huge 2,000-pound animals. So they grew jacked like Hulk-sized lions, where the female lions are as big as a regular male lion. Really? Wow. It's a fucking amazing documentary.

That's protein. See if you can find some images from it. The way they look is just jacked. They're so muscular. They're fucking huge. Like female lions, 600 pounds. Really? Wow.

Fucking amazing. But the documentary is incredible because these water buffalo are so big and so hard to take out. Cape buffalo. Oh, it's cape buffalo. Cape, yeah. So they need like six or seven of them. Just jump these fucking buffalo and drag them to the ground.

Those things are solid muscle too yeah buffalo yeah they're they're giant but because of and this i believe this is over the period i think it's a short amount of time is it in africa yes a short amount of time that these lions have lived on this one island okay but they did a whole documentary about it because all that's on this island are hyenas cape buffalo and lions and a few birds and two others so there's nothing else for them to eat they don't want to eat hyenas yeah imagine what a hyena steak tastes like awful wonder what it tastes like awful it tastes great imagine pigs you look at a pig like how could that taste good yeah i guess i don't know wild pig is

fucking delicious and they look disgusting in africa they say hyenas are uh witches witches well they seem like they're laughing at you yeah yeah and then that was a that was a whole thing it's like a an alpha female has a dick. Remember that? Yeah. It's not cool. No. It's a bigger dick than a male's. So Jimmy Kimmel also made the small penis reference about hunters. What is this? Okavango Delta lions from Planet Earth 2.

Yeah, you can't really tell in that picture. See, Google enormous lions, relentless enemies. This is as close as I could get to it. Yeah. I know there's video on it you can get. Well, yeah. So it's on Planet Earth 2 where that relentless enemies document. I can't show that.

Right, right, right. But this is Planet Earth 2. But the documentary is just Google relentless enemies documentary. Wait. So this is this area where the the lines are stranded in this one particular and it's not a very large spot but in this one place yeah there it is it's really fucking awesome though that must be it yeah don't don't don't see if they get some good images of how big these things are.

You can't really tell. They just look like, oh, ew, you're watching sex. I'm watching a bang. Go to the second one. Not that one, but go back to that page. The second one, Relentless Enemies, Lions and Buffalo. This is the one. So this is the actual documentary. And there's also a pride of lions that are regular size on this island, too,

which is really confusing to biologists. They're like, well, what the fuck? Can't really tell here. Yeah. But see how jacked these females are? Yeah. It's tough to tell here. But here they're trying to take out this Cape buffalo.

Look at this. This is crazy. Yeah. They're all piling on it. Yeah. But the females are much, much larger than a regular female. It's pretty brutal. Hey man evolution. It's fascinating shit Watching things struggle to survive. Yeah Hard out there for a pimp death is never pretty no, but I mean the thing is

people would have a Really hard time if a person was doing any of the things that lions do. Yeah. I mean, you would think that would be awful. But do you have a hard time with lions doing the things that lions do? You say no, because that's natural. Yeah. Okay, but do you realize the only reason why people even exist is because people did what lions do?

Yeah. The difference is humans have compassion. Yeah. lions do yeah the difference is humans have compassion so i mean um animals there's no they don't have time for compassion out there you know i mean it's a non-existent concept i put up this video on my instagram this zebra had just zebra foal had just been dropped um it was just barely standing wobbly legs this lion big male lion, walks up to it, kills it. It'd been alive minutes. Yeah, I saw that video.

That's life. That bummed me out, but not as much as the one where you had, was it a moose calf or an elk calf? Elk calf, yeah. Where the bear was eating it alive, and it's screaming out, and its mother is just a few feet away trying to figure out what to do. And that grizzly's just tearing it apart. That sucked. But meanwhile. figure out what to do and that grizzly's just tearing apart that sucked but meanwhile that's what they do if you don't control the populations of grizzlies that happens all the time and even today right now with the just the populations as they exist right now in places like alberta they estimate that 50 of all moose elk and deer calves are

killed or fawns yeah are killed by bears they just they just tear them apart yeah half of them and that's that's what happened up in british columbia because they did that they did a vote in vancouver essentially to vote on whether grizzly hunting should be allowed of course people in the city you know like here, don't think there are hardly any grizzlies left. So they said no. And so the new, I can't remember what the political party is called, but the one in control now said grizzly hunting is no longer socially acceptable. Yeah. And so they can't hunt them. And you'll see what's going to happen with the other animals.

Well, they're going to have to hunt them, but they're going to hire people to hunt them. What happens in those situations is what happens in California when it comes to mountain lions. And they still get hunted, but they get hunted in a very hush-hush way. They hire assassins to go after these lions that kill dogs and cats and scare the shit out of joggers. And that's what they're going to have to do to bear us. The problem with that hunt vote was the way it was explained gritty bowman did a podcast about it and what they were explaining was that it was a very small percentage of people

that even voted on this yeah i mean it was like just a few thousand people voted on it and most people were unaware of the consequences oh that there needs to be a balance of these bears and these animals otherwise the animals are going to get dec balance of these bears and these animals Otherwise the animals are gonna get decimated and the bears are gonna encroach on human populations and then on top of that these bears like that the there's been this whole business of Guiding and outfitting for these bears and the biologists are not talking to the people that are actually in the woods on the ground about the population numbers. If you talk to people like my friend Mike Hawkridge, who lives up there, he'll tell you there's a lot of bears. There's a large population of grizzly bears.

And it's very difficult to determine what the actual population is if they're not listening to the people that are on the ground every day. Yeah, yeah. You got to listen to people that are in boots on the ground. every day yeah yeah no you gotta you gotta listen to people that are in boots on the ground no one's and when you have a vote on something like this no one's taking into consideration these things like you're just going bears oh why would you kill a bear they're amazing yeah you know i i love bears i love bears the anthropomorphization of animals is one of the more dangerous things that people have done with civilization where we've decided that animals are like us. They're our friends.

They have, they wear baseball hats and fucking ties. God, it's just weird. Yeah. It's, it's a, and we do it from the time kids are little, you know, you give them a teddy bear and then, you know, you tell them, Oh, you don't kill real bears, do you? Like real bears are going to kill you. Do you understand what a bear is? Yeah. Like a bear is that thing with that guy in India.

That's a bear. It's a monster. I mean, it's an awesome monster. I'm glad they're real. Yeah, me too. And bear meat is delicious. It is. And that's the other thing.

It's like people think that somehow or another you can't eat bears. Like people get mad at you for killing a bear, but they won't get mad at you for killing a pig because pigs are ugly. But they won't get mad at you for killing a pig because pigs are ugly. Like a wild pig, like wild pigs are one of those one animals where vegans and animal rights activists don't have an answer to. Right. You know, they really don't like seeing people shooting them out of helicopters. They don't like seeing people hunting them. I would love to sit down, have someone from PETA or any animal rights activist group sit down with someone who really understands the wild pig infestation problem. The invasive species that doesn't have a natural predator that breeds three to four times a year and can have as many as six to eight piglets in its litter.

And they're just fucking like there's no tomorrow. And they're having tons of them and they're just destroying billions of dollars in crops every year. What do you do about that? What are you going to do? Tell me what to do, Animal Right people. They don't think about it because this is not a balanced, nuanced, objective approach. They haven't looked at this whole thing. What they've decided is that killing sent sentient beans is bad speciesism is

bad you know that one speciesism i do you're a species i'm a speciesist god everybody is when it comes to bugs in fact everybody is at subway hey you want some bacon on that yeah throw some bacon on there well if you don't if that's if you eat at Subway, bro. Everybody doesn't eat at Subway. Vegans don't eat at Subway. Vegans at what? 3%? Yeah. What is the number of vegans? What's the percentage? 3%. What's the percentage of vegans that are cunts?

Not, I almost said 100. I almost said 100, but not Wesley Town. No. I know a lot of cool vegans. Yeah, me too. Ian Edwards. Oh, right. Ian Edwards is one of cool vegans. Yeah, me too. Ian Edwards. Oh, right. Ian Edwards is one of my best friends. Yeah.

He's a vegan. So there's two. Yeah. No, I know a lot of cool vegans. But there's a lot of vegans that are just super self-righteous. Yeah. Once they're on that team, they're super self-righteous. And ask them how much time they have in the woods.

Yeah. Not much. Hey, man, how much time you have around bears? How much time you have? Yeah. Got a lot of time in the how much time you have around bears? How much time you have? Yeah. Got a lot of time in the woods? To form that opinion? Oh.

Do you really understand? Yeah. Have you ever come across a bear tearing apart a cub? Oh. Or killing a calf elk. Yeah. You know? It's constantly happening.

I don't even, when I put that up, I don't even like to watch it. I'm a hunter. I've killed a lot of animals. I don't like to watch it, that up, I don't even like to watch it. I'm a hunter. I've killed a lot of animals. I don't like to watch it, but we have to show it. Yeah. How do you think they feel about animals killing animals? Do you think they feel it's okay because it's natural? I don't know what they think.

I wonder if it's just a convenient thing that they just look past. La, la, la, not listening. Yeah. La, la, la, la. I think that's probably mostly what it is. Yeah, because if they really did want to like what is more beautiful well that's subjective well it's what's more beautiful a deer a bear i don't know but i do know that one doesn't eat the other

deers don't eat bears you know so i feel like if you yeah if you felt like they were both equally beautiful you'd want to protect the deer from the bear. Man, I don't know. I know as a hunter, people always ask me, what do you enjoy hunting the most? It's whatever I'm hunting. I respect and I'm drawn to all the – I like being close to all the animals. So it's – I don't really't i have a hard time rating them personally well for me um i just like the ones that are delicious and they're all pretty delicious

that we hunt yeah the variety of it i just like the fact too that i'm not getting meat from some fucking factory farm yeah the people that are getting meat from the store and from burger king that are still shitting on hunters and saying you got a little dick like you're being silly you're being silly no I know but I'm getting so we've talked about this every single time but the number of people reaching out is growing exponentially daily on who wants to be a hunter who wants to provide for themselves and their family, and really sees the draw to that. And that is, it's the natural way. It's, it's every day. It's also the concern people have in the real good concern for getting food that hasn't been

tainted with antibiotics and hormones. Yeah. Getting natural food. There's no more natural organic food than an animal that is literally living in the wild until you take it out. Like, they don't even know you're there until that arrow hits them. The most perfect life up until that time, generally. And it's a way it's meant to be, really. It's, you know, humans have hunted up until very recently. That's for most of our our existence would you like to

take kanye hunting if you do i'll take anybody hunting would you take kanye where would you take him what would be bear hunting i'd take him bear just bear is good because you know it's like um when we your first bow hunt was bear just because it's pretty controlled. There's a lot of bear. You can go on some of these hunts, and if you went on an axis deer hunt for your first hunt. You would quit. That's tough. You'd quit. So with bear, I think it's a good first hunt, and then I like being able to explain why we're bear hunting.

The bear we're looking for, we're looking for the big old male. Here's how you identify it. I like being right there so if if i took kanye hunt hunting it would be bear hunting hmm um do you think he would be able to do it i don't know him i mean he's he seems crazy but i don't know is kanye out there bear hunting he just bought like 300 acres in wyoming so maybe he did he into kanye bought 300 acres in wyoming he's probably gonna build a sneaker factory out there bear hunting? He just bought like 300 acres in Wyoming. So maybe he might be into it. Kanye bought 300 acres in Wyoming? He's probably going to build a sneaker factory out there. That's a good looking country right there.

That's gorgeous. No. Why did he buy 300 acres in Wyoming? That's where he's filming or finishing his album right now. I think he recorded part of it. Here we go with the album again. But I mean, I'm telling you, it's all part of it. Do you work for Kanye?

No. Tell me the truth. I do not. Jamie's all part of it. Do you work for Kanye? No. Tell me the truth. I do not. Jamie's got a side job. Yeah. But I mean, he's also apparently building. In the interview he talks about, I think he's building some houses or something out there. Wow.

Can you imagine Kim Kardashian wandering around Wyoming? That's when people are going to really want to get rid of the bear population because Wyoming's got some fucking grizzlies. Imagine if the grizzly bears take out the Kardashians. Well, I think people like – Why are you laughing, Jamie? That's terrible. That would – hey. Stupid.

Why is it stupid? He's in Wyoming. It's like goofy stupid. That's goofy. But he's in Wyoming. Think about the album sales. Go crazy. Yeah.

Yeah, if you covered her with beef covered her would be fat a fun horror movie send her out there in the woods i think people like kanye and i don't know about cam or but man archery is a discipline people need so i mean they need some discipline i think archery can be it can be powerful you know i'd sent you that quote i think yesterday about there's like a there's things you do in your life where there's before you did them and after you did them and there's a definitive line right there i think archery can be a line like that where everything was before and now everything after and it's that powerful well i think difficult things are important for people to do. I think challenges are extremely important.

If you don't have a challenge in your life, the human mind, we were talking about idle time being the devil's playground. Yeah, right. The human mind needs challenges. You need something that's stimulating and intriguing to you. And bow hunting is insanely difficult. Archery, forget about bow hunting. You just want to eat vegetables all day. Archery is insanely difficult. Archery, forget about bow hunting. You just want to eat vegetables all day.

Archery is insanely difficult. And it's something that requires concentration on all these different levels. Like mental concentration, you have to focus on your posture and your form and make sure that everything's right, the timing, the release of the shot is right. All that stuff requires so much of your focus and so much thought that it cleans your mind yeah it cleans your mind of all these other things all the bullshit and life stress goes away when that arrow flies through the air and hits that bullseye like it feels amazing that's that's one i had a lot of respect for uh ryan zinke when i went back there to dc

because i took him a bow back there and there's a huge group of people standing around he's shooting an arrow at a small target in a gymnasium and you know i mean you're putting you're putting yourself out there because there's no guarantee you're going to be very good with the bow well he doesn't have experience with it right no no not especially not with that bow i think he shot one at the western hunting expo but i saw him shooting the air like the the arrow was lined up like he's shooting down his eye instead of with a sight. That's how they used to do it, right? I saw some old pictures of Ted Nugent.

He used to shoot a compound bow without a release. Oh, without. Well, I don't know if he used a release, but I know that he didn't have a sight. Right. And he was looking down the shaft of the arrow. Yeah. Like a guy would do with a recurve bow. Yeah.

Well, that's not. No, not that one. That's in a good position. Maybe that one right there. So that. That's a little more. That's a little more. Yeah.

Well, that's it. That's a, well, that's a recurve, I think, isn't it? It's hard to tell because you're only looking at the top of the riser. But what is, is that a recurve or a comp? isn't it? It's hard to tell because you're only looking at the top of the riser. But, what is, is that a recurve or compound? I can't tell.

Can't tell. But, it says that? It says compound though. Yeah. Ted Nugent is an irresponsible idiot. Oh, God. Jamie,

why'd you pull that one out? Silicone Cowboys blog. Oh. Well, he's also got the bow canted sideways too. It's kind of weird. Yeah, that's sort of how you do that. Yeah, he's also got the bow canted sideways, too. Yeah. Yeah, that's sort of how you do that.

Yeah, see right there. Well, he's got no sight on his bow there. No sight. Yeah, he's looking down the arrow. That's how he used to hunt. Yeah. He used to shoot with a tiny little stabilizer, no sight, and shoot instinctive. Yeah.

And they switched it up a few years back and started shooting with sights. With sights, yeah. But, you know. But so anyway, so Zinke was there, put himself out there, and... Yeah, if he like hit the floor

and it ricocheted off into the crowd. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Stabbed somebody in the eye. Right, and so I respected that. You know, you're taking a chance. And I just think that stuff like that is good for people. So, you know, take you're taking a chance and i just think that that stuff like that is good for people so you know kanye included man if you want to shoot a few arrows and kill a bear i'll go he doesn't have time for that man he's revolutionizing fashion he's gonna get people

to wear dresses men are gonna wear dresses soon because of kanye that's what jamie's telling me serious yeah and then kanye's gonna start wearing dresses and then other people are going to join in. Yeah. And he's selling flip flops and the bottom look like mountain boots. Slides. Slides. What? Is this all true?

Yeah. The dresses? I don't know about the dress part. If you want to have your finger on the pulse of what's going on today with the kids, you got to talk to young Jamie Vernon. God, that's amazing. He's my go-to liaison for what the fuck

these kids are up to. Yeah. I'm a 50-year-old man. I don't know what the fuck's happening. It's hard to pay attention to. It's hard to pay attention to everything.

That's for sure. I go to young Jamie. Yeah, that's true. I'm busy. I can't keep up with everything. Well, and plus you're off social media now.

Well, I'm not off it. I posted twice today. Did you think about getting a flip phone instead? No. You're like, no. No, I have discipline. I'm not like Ari Shafir. You heard me, Ari.

He's got no fucking discipline. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, he talks about it. If he gets his phone in his hand, he's like, I can't. He goes, I'll be late for everything. I'll be like 20 minutes late. I just sit down.

I can't get off. He goes, I'm powerless. I'm like, wow, that's crazy. I don't get that. That's not good. But I do know that not thinking about that stuff for three days made me feel better. It was like a cleanse. Yeah. I think ultimately there's a, there's a tremendous amount of pressure in being in the public eye, whether you're in the public eye on social media or public eye doing a podcast or anything like that. So for me doing nothing but bow hunting for six days, like was a, was, it was a very difficult release in that difficult, in a

difficult task, not difficult. Like, uh like I needed to go back to it quickly. Difficult in that like bow hunting is hard to do. So in doing that thing and concentrating on that thing only, I wasn't thinking at all about like Twitter or. You weren't distracted by stupid shit. Or the news. No, what I liked that last day, it was, I loved, let's see. So I killed a buck earlier in the day. You guys had been on some stocks. You came, drove down, loaded the buck up, took it to Bob the Butcher.

So it was, I think, later in the morning, normally when it'd be like, okay, let's go get something to eat. We'll regroup and come back in the morning, normally when it'd be like, okay, let's, you know, go get something to eat. We'll regroup and come back in the afternoon. But you're like, no, I want to keep hunting. You know, you were just so tunnel vision focused on hunting. And it was so, I was like, I was so excited. So we were out there and it was getting hot by this time. And we're just finding deer, glass deer putting together these stocks and it was just like it was seriously one of i sound stupid i'd say the best day of my life but i mean that's a perfect day for me it was fun it was it was you guys went down on that stock you and alec and i found that that bedded buck by himself, the wide buck. And it was just like, man, what a great day.

It was an awesome day. And that's how I would have done it if my family wasn't there. I would have just been doing it all day. I wouldn't have come back. I would have just brought some snacks and water and stayed out. I'm just what I'm there to do. And it's, like I said, it's like a cleanse. There's something about the difficulty of it,

especially when I was doing it by myself. There was a time for a while where I was stalking on this buck by myself without Alec, without anybody. And like, this is like, it's such a singular focus. Yeah. You're thinking about one thing. Yeah. You're just checking the wind, checking your range, trying to close in on him, putting bushes in between you and him so he can't see you. Yeah.

Creeping, trying to, and it's, there's something about that that's so, it's so primal. It just resonates with your DNA. There's something about it where like you get, if you get one of those animals and then as you're eating it, you're going to remember that moment forever. You're going to remember. Yeah. It's a a it's not just like getting something from a restaurant or from the grocery store it's getting some you're

eating something that has a connection you have a massive connection to it yeah and that's i i videoed a little bit on that deer i killed that day and i put it on my instagram story just little clips about where i was where the buck was kind the strategy, taking off my boots and all that. And so many people sent messages saying that that was fascinating. I'm like, man. Is that still up? How long does the Instagram story stay up? No, but I saved it on the highlights.

Oh, that one you saved? What is it listed under? It says Axis stock. Oh, that's badass. Yeah, so people can check it out. And it's just like I was reading the comments and reading the messages and people saying how fascinating it was and how educational. And I'm like, on one hand, I'm like, that's awesome. On another hand, it made me feel bad for them because that's just I've done that so many times.

And it is. It's powerful. And it feels like the way it should be. But I feel bad for people who haven't experienced that. So I feel good for you now that you're in that. And then, but the people sending me messages, I'm like, I would love to almost be able to share that with them somehow. Or, or, I mean, that's as good as I can do right now. That's one of the hardest things for people is to get in it. To get started. Yeah.

Yeah, because it's like the learning curve. That's what I was going to ask you is you've been bow hunting now. What was that first bow hunt we went on? What year was that? 2013 or 14? 14. So four years? Something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So four years. And it's uh i don't know it's what what what's changed from that first year to this year for you i mean experience for sure yeah having more hunts under my belt understanding how little i really know it's like one of those things there's a there's a great expression that I think from Dennis McKenna that once the bonfire of understanding grows, the surface area of ignorance is revealed.

Right, right. The bigger the bonfire, the more you realize, like the more you understand, the more you realize how much there is to learn. Right. That's one of the things about hunting. With each experience, especially something like Lanai, which is so difficult. It's like the most difficult, at least what I've experienced in my short amount of time doing it,

the most difficult kind of hunting. Spot and stalking things that are just fucking wired. Yeah. Super pressured. The stalk is the most difficult. I mean, if you have to backpack in the mountains the mountains yeah that's a different kind of that's a different kind yeah the stock of these and getting in bow range and making the shot yeah that's yeah it's almost as hard as it gets on the animals that i've hunted there's some antelope in africa that are just as

quick but um backpack hunting is probably the hardest physically, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a, that's a whole different challenge and a whole different knowledge base that you'd have to delve into. But as far as stocking and getting those killed with the bow, these access deer, you're right. Also,

like I would imagine that backpack hunting in the mountains is also more mentally taxing because you can't just go back to the cabin. You can't just go back to the lodge. You're out there in a tent and you're 20 miles in. And if you break your ankle, you're going to die. Yeah. Yeah. Or you're going to have to tape that thing up and crawl out of there.

It's a little better now because people have way more access than when I started. You'd have to get to the top of the mountain to even get barely cell phone service if that was even possible but now you know there's a lot of light phone yeah yeah yeah a lot of people have access that which which is nice yeah still it's it's uh it's intimidating for a lot of people yeah the barrier for entry is very high yeah it's very hard to get started and I'm just really lucky that I got started because of a podcast that I got to meet Rineella and got into hunting and then got to meet you and then got into archery and bow hunting and all that stuff and but it's for someone on the outside that's looking in it's extremely difficult no but here's what you do you go to a archery pro

shop most people have those i know there's one down here in San Diego, performance archery. I met Scott Eastwood at one in Riverside. I think it's called Riverside Archery. Back home, it's the bow rack. But there's these pro shops that that's what they do every day. So the key with any archery hunting you're going to do is shooting that bow and shooting it consistently, getting those reps in. And that's where you know you can't control the experience you get you know it that kind of comes slowly but like what you've

taken control of is the repetition and the discipline with shooting an arrow and doing it accurately so once you control that part of it the hunting experience is going to come the stock experience the learning the animals that's going to come but at least when you get that opportunity you'll be able to make the shot so for what for for new people who are interested get to an archery pro shop get set up with the good bow learn how to shoot correctly and do it a lot and then you branch out and set up the hunts it's just so difficult to execute a shot on an animal. Yeah, way different.

People don't have any idea how much anxiety and how much adrenaline is pumping through your system when you're drawn back on an animal. Yeah. I mean, the consequences are so grave. Everything is so high stakes. It's just, and you only get this one shot. Like, here it is especially say if you're on a backcountry hunt you go 20 miles in there's there's 190 inch mule deer just standing there and he's feeding you get this one shot this is your one shot even you haven't seen a deer in six days you finally see a deer and you draw back and your arms are shaking and you just trying

trying to go through your shot process without flinching and fucking panicking and your arms are shaking and you just trying trying to go through your shot process without flinching and fucking panicking and just slamming that trigger like it's a fucking door and a monster's on the other side of it people want a shortcut and i was the same way i've been on hunts like that i've been on um nate simmons filmed me on a hunt where i was in the eagle cap wilderness and i don't i'm'm trying to, or I'm trying to think if, yeah, we didn't see, God, I don't, I want to say we didn't see an elk for something like six days. I killed a buck on day seven, I think, and a bull on day eight. But there was a long time in there where it was like, what are we doing? Yeah.

was a long time in there where it was like, what are we doing? Yeah. So it's really easy when you finally do get that opportunity to want to shortcut from seeing it to holding the antlers in your hands and being successful. Right. And that's where people rush it. They get back and they just want to get that arrow on its way. Anxiety. Because the sooner an arrow can be going towards that animal, they feel like the closer they

are to holding that animal, to making a good shot. But man, you still have to go if you you can't skip a step anxiety is a crazy thing man yeah it's a crazy thing it's like that adrenaline and that the the feeling of discomfort is like this like uncertainty feeling yeah it's just very hard for people to handle but that's with the case of anything where you have to perform anything where it's difficult to do where you're just like oh my god is it happening it's happening right now yeah the brain is so it's wired with all these different chemicals that are excreted when that when that moment's happening when when there's a this final event, this is it. Here it is. Oh, my God.

Ready, action. That's where I think all the reps you've put in paid off because on that first buck. So it was 15 minutes into the hunt. It was even Alec, who's been doing that for 30 years, has never had a hunt that played out that quickly, that perfectly. quickly that perfectly but i think you told me um i'm always i'm always trying to get into the to the heads of other hunters and and just want to know what the thought process is but i think you told me that when you're in bow range of that buck right out of the gate on the early in the hunt didn't you take a few deep breaths and relax did you say that yeah yeah and that's a lot of people they're tense They're tense.

They're tense because there's so much going on. They never relax. And that shot is just not going to be accurate. Yeah. But when you can relax and then just like in your backyard, you come, you focus. You're just as calm as you've done a thousand times. And you can pick that spot, level that bubble and slowly squeeze that trigger. That's when it works.

Yeah. That's super hard to do. it was it was happening so fast that before we knew it we kicked our shoes off and we're walking you know just with socks on yeah just creeping through the grass and we got to 45 yards and he's like do you want to get closer i'm like this is perfect stop right here yeah i got it yeah and i just went just took a couple of deep ones yeah and it was feeding and then i'm like okay i know what to do yeah just did it and when when the whack when i heard the the impact of the arrow was like holy shit there it is yeah yeah that was a perfect execution yeah it's a weird feeling man when it's a weird feeling, man. When it's like, did that really happen?

Did that really happen? And we're standing over the, and then I sent you a picture of it. And I said, boom. Yeah. And that was, I say perfect execution, not of killing the animal of the shot. It was a perfect execution of the shot. I'm not saying we're executing animals. That's what people don't understand. It's hard to do. There's so much physical action involved in pulling a bow back and being in perfect position and making sure you're not torquing the bow and leveling the bubble on the sight and pulling with the back muscles and making sure everything's in line and there's no flinching or extra movement and you're concentrating on the exact

spot you want that arrow to hit as the thing's releasing all under extreme anxiety and pressure and this thing is it moving is it going to keep walking what's going to happen and there's so much involved but the feeling when it's over the relief and then knowing that i'm going to have this organic meat that is the most delicious meat in the world and i'm going to be cooking and i can't wait to cook it yeah and i haven't cooked any of it but um in the world that I'm going to be cooking. And I can't wait to cook it. Yeah. And I haven't cooked any of it, but, um, I can't wait. I'm going to cook some tonight. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's a, it's a powerful experience for almost anybody. And it's one that I know not everybody can hunt. Not everybody who listens to this is, is probably ever going to hunt, but those that do will understand, you know, and it's not always

going to be comfortable. It's not always killing animals. People aren't going to have warm and fuzzy feelings about seeing an animal dead. But there's something about taking responsibility for the meat that you're eating. And that's going to be, I don't know if relief is the right word, but it's just the connection that I think it's going to make more sense. Well, one thing that confuses people with you is when they find out that you run ultra marathons and you're working out all the time. Like, why is he doing all that stuff? Like, well, I do that to be my very best when I'm in the mountains, when I'm hunting. I've seen people go, what?

Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. You work out every day. You run twice a day. You run ultra marathons to test yourself so that when you're hunting, you could be at your very best. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I don't think people understand how much it means to me.

I feel like I owe it to the animal to be at my best. I feel like if the animal suffers longer than I believe it should, I don't like dealing with that. So I feel like there's a weight of that on my shoulders where I need to be at my best as a hunter. And to do that, I put in work, work i prepare every day and i just want to know that i'm going to be merciful when it comes time to kill the animal you're also going to be in shape enough to get to position to get to the animal and have your heart rate drop down enough so you can stay calm yeah this is why you do so much cardio yeah yep you know, on this hunt, I felt all that worked out exactly how it was supposed to quit very quick, clean deaths. And then, you know, like in the buck that I killed just a couple of days ago, that second buck, I was able to, you know, there's something about putting a dead animal on your shoulders and packing it out that, you know, it's just part of the process. It just feels right.

it out that, you know, it's just part of the process. It just feels right. Yeah. But for a lot of people that seems so crazy, like, wait a minute, you run a marathon a day so that you could be in shape to go hunting. Can't you just go hunting? You can, a lot of people do. And I'm not, I'm not here. I'm not here to judge anybody or tell somebody that they need to do what I do, or they're doing it wrong. I'm saying that's what people that, you know, hunting is such a personal journey. You know, when people say, maybe hunting is fun for some people, maybe for some people, it is fun to kill an animal. I don't know for, for me, it's not. And people said, Oh, you can admit it. It's fun. I'm like, it's not fun. It's like, I know what it means to me. What it means to me is I need to be at my very best to be at my very best. I need to run a marathon a day.

I need to work harder than I've ever worked. So I'm at the top of my game on the hunt. I don't care what you think about that, or I don't care about your mindset. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about me. And that's people have a hard time with that. Well, they have a hard time believing. First of all, that you run a marathon a day. you saying that i'm like imagine if i didn't know

this guy i'd be like he's full of shit yeah and it's not a fucking you're on a marathon you're supposed to take six months off and do nothing it's true isn't that what they say yeah it's true you know it's um man you know and it's not all at what time it's what i do is i get up in the morning i'll get six miles done faster cardio and people then people also like to to say why they don't do it is because well i spend time with my family it's like shut the fuck up i spend time with my family too so anyway i get up while they're still sleeping they're sleeping what am i supposed to do so let's go lay in bed by them wake them up i want to spend time with you yeah Wake up, kids. Yeah. So I go before anybody's up.

The second time I run is at lunch, and I got to get out of the office. I got a regular nine-to-five job. Drives me insane because I'm meant to be in the mountains. But, hey, I got a job. It's the best job I ever had. I want to do a good job for the company I work for. I've been there 21 years. But to be at my best there, I need a break at lunch.

So I say, they said, hey, do, but to be at my best there, I need a break at lunch. So I say, they said, well, Hey, do you want to be superintendent of the water department? I'm like, yeah, I'll be superintendent, but I'm going to run every day at lunch. And if they would have said, no, you can't do that. I'm like, well, I'm not going to be superintendent then. But they said, okay, yeah, you can do that. I'm like, all right, I'll come in early. I'll stay late. We'll make it work. So I, that's my second one. I can't spend time with my family at lunch. They're not going to come to my work and sit in the lunchroom with me.

So I go running. And how far do you run at lunch? At lunch, I'll try to get – if I'm trying to get a marathon done a day, I don't go to the mountain. I just go flat, and I get at least 13 done at lunch. So you're at 19 before you even get home. So then the last run of the day on my way home from work, I'll go to the mountain and I'll get that last seven or eight done. Three runs a day.

And that'll be a marathon a day. That's a lot of fucking running. No. It's not? Well, it's not for you. It feels fine. I don't feel 100% healthy. I don't feel, I feel 100% healthy. I don't feel banged up.

I don't feel anything. And that's the question I always get. Well, how do you, people say, well, how do you- And how do you, why do you have so much muscle? First of all, I weigh 170 pounds. I'm not, I don't have like muscle everywhere. So I'm not big. But I also eat meat all the

time every day. You know, you talked about the lions and wherever with the river and they were eating just Buffalo and they were jacked. You got to have protein. So if you can run a marathon a day, if you're eating salad, you're going to weigh 140 pounds. Okay. If you run a marathon a day and you're eating steak three times a day, you're going to retain some muscle.

So that's what I do. I know what my body needs for calories. And I know when I'm at my best, it's when I have excess calories to burn. So that's what I do. I make sure I'm eating nonstop. But you're also lifting weights. I do. How do you have the time to do all this?

I'm like listening to the schedule. I'm like, this is ridiculous. And then you shoot your bow. Yeah. And then you hang out with your family. Yeah. What in the fuck, Cam Haines? The family time is about from,

let's see, I'll get home at about 6.30 till about, and then everybody will be going to bed at 10. So that's Fox News time. Hanging out. Fox News time. Is that all you fucking watch is Fox News? Well, in the evenings. That's not all you fucking watch it's fox news well in the evenings that's

really what you watch at night we watch the voice god damn these liberals we watch the voice no or american luke's on the american or on american idol luke bryan's on there so watch that a little bit sometimes my daughter so that's what me and my daughter do she loves the voice and uh and so it's fun it's fun to get into that. So that's what I do. And I can, if I'm just doing the close reps, like during the work week, it's generally just at my house, just, you know, 20 yards shooting my bow. And that's, and it's just, and then when I'll lift on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I lift right after work, and I'll go outlaw strength and sometimes nick the trainer dude, hammer it out. I'll stick it home at the same time.

So on those days, I'm not going to get a marathon done a day on those three days. Do you feel like shit on those days because you didn't get your marathon in? No, because lifting is hard. Lifting is hard. But in the back, I'll be honest honest i'm not normal i get it but in the back of my mind i'm thinking i kind of suck a little bit because i didn't get a marathon done that is so crazy yeah that that's what are you thinking like when you run an ultra and to say if you run 100 miles or more when what what kind of demons are going through your head when you're out there running?

I don't know what it is. Like the Moab 240. You ran 238 miles in three days. What were you thinking while you were at day two and a half? What I'm thinking is I'm honoring myself by getting the absolute most out of my, I don't think I've reached my limit. I think if you're not getting the most out of your body, you're not taking advantage of your life. You're not honoring your life. So to me, I need to find what my limit is.

I can't halfway it. I can't halfway it because I feel like then I'm not man, that's not, I don't know. I can't live with myself if I don't feel like I have given everything that I have. The weird thing about running is as you run more your capacity to run more increases. So you realize like, oh, the body has more capability than you think because you just have to get it accustomed to this amount of work. And then you just do it all the time and then it gets used to it and then it grows and expands.

And then your threshold and what your expectations are, they increase too. Yeah. So in the beginning you were saying that when you first started running, like running a 5K is like, holy shit, this is hard. Or a 10K is brutal. You would never think like, man, can I do a marathon? Right. Now you're fucking doing a marathon every day. Yeah.

And this is the same person. It's not like, you know, I've always, first time I started running, I ran a fucking ultra marathon. You know, it's not that. No, no, no, no. And that's, I mean, that's everything. That's everybody and everything you work up to it. Yeah. And so that it's no different from me.

I just feel like I'm finally getting to my potential. And I wasted a lot of years not living up to my potential. So I, when I do the running videos and I'm smiling, I'm in a good mood. That's genuine. Cause I'm like, this is my potential. Yeah. I can't be happy sitting at home watching tea. I'm going to do it because I love my family. I'm going to hang out and do that, but I can't be, I don't feel like that's my potential. This, this is the thing that I think is very important for people like you and I think a lot of people it's that in achieving goals and in

pushing hard there's a release of anxiety that I think overwhelms a lot of people for most of their life most of I know a lot of people that are overwhelmed by anxiety and most of those people that I know that are overwhelmed by anxiety don't push themselves i think there's a connection there yeah i think that physically pushing yourself to your limit all the time whether it's lifting weights or jujitsu or running or whatever you do that's strenuous i think it's a requirement for the human body that we think of as an option i don't think it's an option i don't think so especially not for option. I don't think it's an option. I don't think so. Especially not for mental health. I think, I think it's really critical. I think, I think really hard exercise is one, and I don't care what you do, whether you're swimming or whatever, whatever you like, whatever you enjoy mountain biking. But I think really hard

exercise is one of the most important requirements for like a happy, healthy life. I really do. important requirements for like a happy, healthy life. I really do. I think, you know, man, I could say that maybe I try to justify what I do to try to put logic to it. And maybe even what you're saying is, is, is a little bit of justification. I don't know. So I don't know if what I do is right or what we should be doing. I don't know. So I don't know if what I do is right or what we should be doing. I don't know. I just know how I feel when I do it, but that doesn't mean I don't have regrets sometimes, like even with my kids now that they're older. And, uh, you know, I really struggled wondering if the message I'd been sending to my family about average is a failure. If you're not giving your best, you're not honoring your life basically.

And then I'm like, maybe that's okay for some people. Maybe not everybody needs to run a marathon a day and they're fine and they're happy. It's like, who am I to say what makes somebody else happy? Just like I get mad when somebody tells me how I should feel. I can't say why they need. And so then I was like, here's my kids,

my boys who are great young men, strong, have all the potential in the world. Have I, some, have I said

being just a regular guy who has a job and comes home, there's something wrong with that. And I'm like, God, did I screw up? And it's just like, that's really been bothering. Because my son quit a good job as a deputy, my oldest, and he joined the army because he says he has more to offer this world. That's hard.

Is it hard because, well, it's hard, first of all, because your son is joining the military. And you're like, wow, my son could go to combat and I could lose him. But is it also hard because you feel like your high expectations for yourself might have set a bar for him that maybe doesn't line up with his initial expectations? You've made him think that whatever might have made him happy before is not good enough. Right. And that, that's what I thought. And I, you know, I was like, it was, uh, it was hard to deal with when he was leaving and I'm like, God, what did I do?

Right. And, uh, so, you know, I told him, you know, I, I'm sorry if I ever made you feel that, that being a regular average person, there was something wrong with that. And he said, you know, the, the example that I've set growing up was that, uh, to work hard and achieve, you know, big goals. And, and that's, and that's what he wants to do. And so he, he said, you know, he said that was for him. And then my, my younger son, who's in his third year of college now, he, I had the same talk with him and I just said, I'm, you know, I'm sorry if, if I've done something to make it feel like, you know, being, being average was a failure.

And he said that he wants to graduate and he wants to join the service and maybe try to go to special forces too, for the same reason. And so I don't know, I don't know. They, they don't act, they act completely fine with it. And they love, you know, they love working hard and have big goals to achieve. And that part feels good. But sometimes I wonder if, you know, I don't know. I just second-guess myself, I guess. Yeah, it's hard. High expectations you put on kids, it's very difficult.

Like you want to say, I just want them to be happy. I just want them to live their lives on their path. Right. Like every kid has their own personality. And, you know, your three kids are all uniquely different in their own way. And who's to say, I mean, who's to say, I think all you can do is live by example and support them and let them make the choices that they decide to make. Yeah. The problem is the choices that they've made are very stressful and very dangerous. I mean, it might turn out that they might turn out like Tim Kennedy

or someone like Andy Stumpf and be an awesome human being. But for you as a parent, this is this incredibly stressful, pressure-filled situation where you have to reevaluate how you raise them yeah and and what i always my what i told them growing up always was i don't care if you're the best at whatever you're doing but because because not everybody can be the best but i said just give your best just be your best and so that's where i if if they're coasting or whatever i'm like i think you got some more you got some more in you and that's all I, if they're coasting or whatever, I'm like, I think you got some more. You got some more in you. And that's all I ever wanted.

The thing is about people that coast about stuff, if they have like a thought of doing better and they just don't put in the effort, they feel like shit. Yeah. You know, they feel like shit for you telling them that, but they feel like shit for not doing well too. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if they have ambition. If you, unrealized potential is a very fucking horrible feeling you know unrealized potential and um unrealized expectations

are just it's like this feeling that you haven't done enough will keep you up at night yeah it will fuck with your head and that's i just know how i felt not giving all i got and i i don't want i didn't want my kids to feel like that. So I was just like, make sure you're giving your best, be your best. That's it. And, but then I was like,

What have I done? Yeah. So it's, you know, I can only speak for myself. You know, when Tanner was born, I was young. I don't, you know when i when when tanner was born i was young um i don't you know being a parent is like i feel like i'm better now than i was when i was 24 years old and um you know hopefully i'm pretty maybe more i'm different with my daughter she's's also a girl. So it's, it is just,

that's different. But man, it's like, there's no blueprint on how to be the perfect parent. And now I'm like, I hope I did. Okay. Yeah.

You just, there's no blueprint. I mean, what's the blueprint? Be, be honest, give them the best version of your thoughts on life that you can give them, spend time with them when you can.

Then what is the, what is the blueprint i mean just try to help them figure out their path in life and it's also hard too because you've got a full-time job i mean how much time do you dedicate to them you know how much time can you have yeah i mean it'd be it'd be great if i'd be like i'm not going to work anymore I'm just going to hang out with the kids all day. I mean, it's not realistic. Yeah. And you can't do it. And then also, to be the example, I felt like I needed to set for the kids so they'd believe they could achieve whatever they wanted to.

I had to put in work myself. I can't say you can be amazing while i'm half-assing stuff when you say that you didn't reach your full potential until like later in life like when do you feel like that was i haven't no but i mean like you realize that you're like really pushing to reach your full potential now i still don't think i have but you're pushing towards it yeah i'm i'm doing more and so i'm when did that change um god i don't know maybe maybe when i did my first hundred so that's 2009 i felt what what sac real sacrifice was and i don't know i you know hard hunts when roy and i would do super hard hunts

i'd felt like i was giving all i got backpack hunts deep into the backcountry yeah 2008 i mean i always did i did hard hunts by myself in the eagle cap but there's not really a great chance of dying in the eagle cap you know it's uh's, uh, you could, but, um, you know, that I felt like I was, I was given all I had on, on the hunts that required the most of me. And then at that same time, so that was 2007, 2008. Um, then at the same time, I was also ramping up what I did with running and pushing my body a hundred miles and things like that. Because you realized that you needed more endurance. I just realized that I hadn't, I had, I've been doing what I've been telling my kids

not to do. I've been coasting, you know, it still was more than a lot of people were doing, but to me it felt like I wasn't living up to my full potential. So I'm like, you you know I want to do more and then that led to Moab and um when I when I meet people and see people that are doing amazing things it's just it shows me what's possible and so that's why I know I can I have more to offer that's a fascinating thing that you know you take these steps towards this journey and then you realize as you're making these steps that your capacity for work is increasing so you have to push yourself

further to test your body and then you know a marathon seems out of reach but then the marathon becomes a normal thing and then a 50 miler and then a hundred miler then 205 miler and a 238 miler and now you were talking the other day with i guess candace was considering a 500 miler and then a hundred miler then 205 miler you know 238 miler and now you were talking the other day with i guess candace was considering a 500 miler yeah yeah she asked and i know uh that shit's ridiculous i don't know courtney and i said both said we do it and it would just be amazing it would be you know i need the walter yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, I mean, that's what people that do those type of races live for, the next big challenge. And, you know, when you haven't, when you can cross a finish line, like I did Moab and Courtney did, she, you know, dominated. She had a great race in that race.

But she, when you can finish a finish line and you're smiling, you're like, uh. Got a little more left. Got some more left. you're smiling, you're like, uh, got a little more left, got some more left. So, so that's why, you know, the sound of something epic, like 500 nonstop is, is so incredible. That sounds so insane that you'd run 238 miles and be basically halfway done. Yeah. That's so stupid. I know, but listen, when we were a hundred miles in, a hundred miles is a long way. And I told my brother who was with me, Taylor, I go,

you know, it's a different thought when you're not even halfway and you've just done a hundred. Right. A hundred is, hurts. Yeah. But you're not halfway. So it's the same thing. It's really not that much. It's just a change of mindset. How many days do you think you need to run 500? Well... I need a year. Can I do that? Yeah. Can I have a year?

I need 10 hours of sleep at night. I was listening to Matthew Walker. Dr. Matthew Walker said I need 10 hours of sleep at night. Oh, my God. Yeah. Courtney told me she slept one minute. Yeah. Three days.

I had a one... No, she slept 20-some minutes total. No, she laid down for 20 minutes and she couldn't sleep. Yeah. And then the one time that she No, she slept 20-some minutes total. No, she laid down for 20 minutes, and she couldn't sleep. Yeah. And then the one time that she slept, she slept for one minute. I did that exact. Taylor was there, and I did the exact same thing for one minute because he was watching the watch, and I fell asleep. There was a picture.

And I woke up. I was like, how long was I asleep? He goes, a minute. I'm like, well, let's go. And for whatever reason, that minute. It does something. I don't know what does it do but she had i don't have no idea she said she woke up and she was angry that they

let her sleep so long whoever was her right so she thought it was longer yeah and he was like no you only slept for a minute yeah oh shit well let's go yeah that's that's one thing i learned in that first 200 i did uh richard won that race and that was a mistake i made is um i was asking how how long he'd been sleeping that was what you said he sent me a quote but you said he go fucking richard because he is like and he said that he says that was the greatest day of my life and joe rogan said fuck richard kessler but uh but he's he was sleeping short durations, like 15 minutes. And I didn't realize that your body will reset that quick. You thought you needed like an hour.

Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. And plus, I'm sitting here. It's not like it's, I'm, God, it's really hard to be good at ultra marathoning and also be able to want to pack an elk. Right. You know, I mean. Muscle. Weighing. Yeah. What I weigh is not going to. ultra marathoning and also be able to want to pack an elk right you know i mean muscle weighing

what i weigh is not gonna so i i kind of throwing myself in the category of richard and in a courtney that's like can't my i can't do it at what i do right so i'm trying to be be the best of both worlds and it's just you're going to give up in both hands without being built like zach bitter who's like 140s usually and he's the one who ran the he was on the podcast last week and he ran the u.s record of 100 miles in 11 hours and 40 minutes averaging seven minutes and 41 seconds 702 70 what was it maybe? 11 hours and 40 minutes. So I think he ran, yeah, seven minutes, two seconds per mile, which is fucking madness. That's amazing. So fast.

That's so impressive. And he's a meat eater. Oh, is he? Mostly eats meat. Oh, cool. He's like basically on a carnivore diet. He eats like steak constantly. He's on a very high fat diet. Yeah.

High fat, high steak and protein diet. Yeah. Well it's so, yeah. I mean, to be the, to be the optimal endurance athlete, ultra endurance athlete in the mountains, you need to be lighter. Yeah. I mean, I'm just, I weigh too much. Yeah. So, but to be able to pack out an animal, you need to have some weight on. Yeah. I'm doing it to, to be the best at bow hunting. I'm not doing it to be the best runner. And I'm not saying I could be. I don't have the talent. I'm pretty tough.

But, I mean, they're super tough and super talented. What is a talent for running? What's a talent? Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot. You know what I'm saying? It's not like you're painting. There's a talent. You know, there's a –

What's a talent? It's endurance. you're painting. There's a talent. You know, there's a, it's endurance. It's endurance. Right. Yeah. I don't know if that's a talent, but it's, there's having great endurance is a thing. It's certainly a thing. Yeah. And, and managing the body to get the most out of that endurance.

Most of it is, is, and Courtney said this too, she didn't realize how far she could push in the pain she was in. So her first hundred, she quit first hundred mile or she dropped out of cause she was in pain. That was it. Right. And she's like, I can't do this. And then she quit and she's like, wait a second. I quit for no reason. I quit just cause I was in pain. So then after that, she realized pain is just part of the deal and hasn't quit since. So she just didn't realize the pain quotient of those races. Yeah, it doesn't feel good. It's awful.

It doesn't feel good. It doesn't mean you stop. Right. Yeah, so that's the key. Most people can't push through that amount of pain. It hurts, you know, it's the worst pain I've ever felt. What hurts the most? It depends.

It's like I've run and my foot starts hurting. I'm like, oh my God, this is it. I probably broke my foot, maybe a stretch fracture. Then all of a sudden my other knee hurts. I'm like, oh, okay, my ligament got tight because I got dehydrated. It's rubbing on my bone. It's like, oh wait,, my ligament got tight because I got dehydrated. It's rubbing on my bone. It's like, oh, wait, no, this other right hip hurt. It's just like everything hurts, different things.

Your feet get beat up. You get blisters. You're getting dried out. So things are different in your body. Like I got a bone on top of my foot that rubs. And if I get dried out, that stuff's not sliding well enough. So that rubs and it swells up more.

So it's just like all sorts of things happen. Yeah. People want everything to feel good. They want to feel comfortable. And it does. You shouldn't push too hard for about five miles. Just be comfortable. You should just be comfortable.

Yeah. So that's the biggest thing is people. And, you know, there's this guy, too, that's been following me. I love the guy. And he's like, so he sees the pictures. He follows along. He's like, well, I want to do a 100-miler. Because it sounds amazing, right? Right. And signed up to do a hundred miler. And cause it sounds amazing. Right. Right. And, uh,

signed up to do a hundred. It's one of my brother just, just did recently. It's called Badger mountain and, uh, hadn't done it before. I think he came in, ran Pisgah, did about four summits once about 16 miles or whatever, and went out and he's going to do a hundred miler after that. And went out and he's going to do 100 miler after that and started throwing up at like mile 30, threw up like 13 times and couldn't walk. It was dehydrated, throwing up. And it was the hardest thing to do, but he had to drop. And that so there's you're getting your body to a place where you can run that far. And then, so that's part, he hasn't been there yet.

And I think part of that was he wasn't taking insult. There's a lot of, a lot of things that go on with pushing your body that hard, but he got 50 miles done for, for me. I thought that was a great success because just people just because they want to run a hundred doesn't necessarily mean you're going to. There's a lot of things that have to go into preparation and the tactics and fueling and everything else. Learning just like Courtney did. Learning just like he did. He got 50 in.

And now he signed up for Bigfoot. So he's going to do 205 miles. So he's going from dropping out at 50 to 205 miles. Yep. And I think he can do it. It's a sickness. You guys are all sick in the head. You guys are all getting sick together.

I think he can do it, and that's just as part of the process of learning what you're capable of. Right. And it's not, it doesn't happen like that. When you say take salts in, like what are you doing? They're called S-caps, so it's just salt pills. But I thought salt gives you high blood pressure and it's bad for you. Yes, you're right. But when you're sweaty nonstop?

It doesn't give you high blood pressure, folks. It's not bad for you. Okay. It's a fucking bad study from like the 1970s that people recite. Salt's an essential mineral. So when you're doing it, how much are you taking in? I take salt every hour. How much salt?

A couple of capsules of S-caps. So it's a couple caps like a- And if you don't, you won't make it. Really? No. Wow. Nope. So it's just your body just gets too dehydrated?

Yeah, too deficient. And what is the water in the salt? What's happening when you're taking salt? Uh, I don't know. But you know, everybody does it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure exactly, but all I know is like, I remember the first time I did Western States,

I've only done it once, but it was a hundred mile in 2010. And I got to mile 55, I think. And I was dragging ass. You come out of the canyons, a super hot in there is, you know, nineties or hundreds in the canyon. So you come pop out onto mile 55 and I was hurting. And, uh, and Sean Meisner, who's been a very good ultra runner for a long time. he's like, have you taken salt? I'm like, no, I haven't. So he gave me some salt right then, and it took a little while, but made the biggest difference, just salt.

So you had never taken salt before? I hadn't. I didn't take it the first 55 miles. Oh, wow. So then you just got to get in that community and understand what they do and how they survive. And how they fuel. How many people are doing that? Like, say if you and how they fuel how many people are doing that like say if you do bigfoot how many people are entering their race when i

did it which is two years ago is i think 70 some now i think she's over over 100 in all these races wow it's uh yeah what candace bird always says is 200 200 is the new 100. What used to be 100 was like a long way. Now it's 200. 200 is the new 100. When did this change? When did it shift over? Maybe 2016 when I did Bigfoot. Maybe right in there.

That's really recent. Yeah. So this whole sport is kind of evolving right the 200s the 200s are and it's evolving based on how far people can that that are willing to push themselves are continuing to go past the boundaries yeah so when this 500 does take place when do they think that's going to happen she hopes to do it next year you got to quit your job quit your job you gotta run all day no i i'd love you need a sneaker sponsor yeah i got one agent i got one another one i'm gonna be your agent i'm taking over from here okay do it yeah you can't sell yourself i'm gonna sell you no i'm i'm I'm terrible. I'm definitely terrible at business.

Yeah. Well, you can't be good at everything. Yeah. That's a fact. It's not possible. The number one thing I hate more than anything is when business screws up my passions. So when I hate the business of hunting, it sounds weird because I'm probably sitting here because of the business of hunting, but I can't stand it. I know what you're saying.

The business of the industry involved in hunting gear and goods and all that stuff. Yeah. I love hunting. I love the connection with the animals. I love doing what I do, and I know I have value. I get it. I mean, I have value because I put my name on stuff and they sell it. I hate it.

That's probably where you're good at it. I don't know. Yeah, I think those two are correlated. I'm fucking terrible at the business part of comedy. I just want to do it. I don't like thinking about the money part. That's why I have managers and agents. They take care of everything so that i can just be free and if you're not you i you know you only have certain amount of resources

and if you put all your resources into the business side how are you going to have the concentration to do all the other things you're doing right practice shooting and running right all the different things you won't have time it'll fuck with your head, too. You got to. I mean, this is one of the things that I was thinking of when my phone didn't work for four days or three days, whatever it was. Was that how much time I'm wasting. How much energy I'm wasting. Yeah. Like, you can only interact so much with other people's thoughts and ideas and information.

so much with other people's thoughts and ideas and information and you you have a lot of things already in your head that you're going over and thinking about and managing and the more shit you stuff in there it doesn't make you better at doing those original things it dilutes it yes and it also diluted my my peace of mind like i think you know you you only have a certain amount of resources in your life and you have to choose what's important to you and what's not yeah you know and i think it's real easy to get distracted it's real easy to flood your brain with nonsense. I think so. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm good at a few things. So I try to focus on those. Yeah. I'm not in the business part.

Yeah. You can take that over for me. Yeah. I'll take it over for you. I'm not even good at it, but I'm good at, I'm good at what I'm good at is I know people that I like and what I like about them and what's interesting about them. And I like promoting people. It's one of the things that I've gotten out of this podcast.

There's a lot of things that I've gotten out of this podcast that are really unexpected and peripheral. But one of them is the ability to make my friends famous. Yeah. Like this podcast has made Joey Diaz famous famous and ari shafir famous and duncan trussell famous all these people that i think are amazing that are i got a chance to let other people know about them yeah and that's not the only reason why they became famous they became famous because they're talented but it gave them this unusual platform right and i that that means a lot to me to help people like that's something

that's very very rewarding to me and it's almost along the same lines of being able to provide as a hunter and provide food like to be able to provide to let people know you gotta you gotta see this guy's guy's awesome or even things people that i don't even i don't even know people like their documentary i see a documentary it's amazing. I want to tell people about it. I like promoting things. Without any expectation of something coming back to me in return. I just like people say, oh, you're doing ads for products on your Instagram. Never have.

Everything that I've ever put up on Instagram instagram unless it's my own stuff unless it's like my fanny packs or something i sell anything that i've ever put put on like people accuse me of like working for vibram's five finger shoes i'm like no i like them right i like them i don't want anything from them yeah you know this is i wear them all the time this is why i think they're good i think they build your feet up i know my feet are stronger because i run with these things like oh you fucking chill like no that's not what I'm doing. And it's like, that's the one thing of having financial independence that's really rewarding is that I don't have to think like that. You know, like I've been offered to do ads on Instagram.

I can't because unless it was something I super believed in, then I might consider doing it, but I could never do it with some nonsense like Coca-Cola or something like that. What about skinny tea? What's that? Skinny tea? What's skinny tea? I see the girls do it.

What is skinny tea? That's a thing on Instagram. See this fucking guy. I go to him. He knows everything. I go to him. All the young kids. No, he's got, what's that called again?

What do you know what's going on? He's a liaison? No, he's got, what's that called again? What do you know what's going on? He's a liaison? No, no, no, no. He's a. Did Duncan say it? Remember he kept saying it? What do you know it's like popular? Oh, what's the term?

I have, we talked about it at dinner. Yeah, I don't remember. Duncan just kept going on about Lil B. I know. Lil B the I know. Lil B, the bass guy. He's also saying, like, because Gucci is like the kids knew, but there's a word. Zeitgeist? Yes.

Oh, it's in the Zeitgeist. So that's Jamie. Yeah. I'm not a Zeitgeist, but I know what's floating on top. Jamie is online all day, and he's just, ever since the Eddie Bravo podcast, just been blocking people. Yeah. He's on a blocking rampage. Not everyone. Just shitty people.

Just shitty people. That's like most. So what is skinny tea? What is that? It's like detox tea. It's like a thing that people promote. They post a picture. I drink my tea every day, and it's making detoxing, detoxifying.

And they're getting paid to promote this? Yeah. Yeah. and it's making detoxing, detoxifying. And they're getting paid to promote this? Yeah. Well, wasn't that thing you were telling me that Gary Vee was saying that you can get a lot of money for your Instagram posts? Yes.

I saw on a Good Morning America thing he did that. If you have 100,000 followers, I believe you can get up to about $5,000 per post. That's crazy. If you have a million, it ramps up way high, 20 grand a post. 20 grand a post? Yeah. Okay, I'm changing my tune i'm gonna sell out now i'm offering my services to anything that sucks there's this girl and i can't remember who what she was in a movie can't she's sort of cute but kind of unique looking she was getting 65 000 an instagram Instagram posts and 20,000 a story post.

What? Yeah. She said she bought a house. Wait a minute. I need to sell out. You do. What do I sell out to? Who do I sell out to?

Anybody. Everyone. Vibrams. How much money you got? You know I've been promoting you for free. You owe me. No, I can't the only thing i would ever promote is i it's like the same thing i feel about the the stuff that i promote for free yeah it would have to be something that i like believed in yeah it would have to like like hoyt if hoyt came to me and said uh will you i'm

wearing a hoyt hat you are if you would you promote our balls i'm like fuck yeah i shoot them every day. They're awesome. They actually put your picture up, me and you. Beautiful. Yeah. Put it up. Well, no.

I mean, you joke around. You weren't joking about you like helping your friends. But I don't know how long the powerful Joe Rogan, how long has the powerful Joe Rogan been around? The same? Yeah. I don't know. It's been a while but the point is is like now that this is powerful because if i put up hey where'd you hear about or where'd you start following me from or where'd you hear about what i do i don't know 80 is joe

rogan show joe rogan experience and so it it's been a saying for a long time, but it is powerful. You know what's really crazy? Bert Kreischer was at the airport, and this lady, he said she was in her 60s, walked up and she goes, powerful Bert Kreischer. And he was like, what the fuck? And he texted me. He goes, dude, that was crazy. He's like, this is like an older lady.

He said, powerful Bert Kreischer. And he was like, whoa. He goes, that's when it hit me. He was like, this is like an older lady. Yeah. He said, powerful Bert Kreischer. All right. And he was like, whoa. He goes, that's when it hit me. He was like, what the fuck? I'm reaching like middle-aged ladies. Yeah. Past middle-aged ladies.

If she lives to be 120, that's a hell of a lady. No, because we're middle-aged. Yeah, we're middle-aged. If everything goes perfect. Yeah. But with science today, I think we're probably not even. I think we're probably one-third aged. Yeah. But with science today, I think we're probably not even. I think we're probably one-third aged. Yeah.

I think it's 100% easy today that someone's going to live to be 150. I don't think there's any question whatsoever. Yeah. With stem cell treatments and all this other crazy new. 150? Yep. Yeah, I believe that. I believe people that are alive today.

Because I think technology and medical science is increasing its viability and its potential so fast. And there's so many people working on things all the time that if you do everything right right now, I think we're going to see people that are alive today. They're going to hit 150. I think the people that are born like five years from now, 10 years from now, they'll probably hit 200. Woo! Before we go. Before we go. Chicago UFC. Ooh, it's going to be a good one.

Colby Covington, don't slap me. Don't slap me. When I said you're going to slap me, don't slap me. I was talking shit. Why is he going to slap you? Because I was telling him that Jon Jones might slap him. Oh, he's going to slap you? I'm going to slap you. I like Colby.

I like what he's doing. He's talking a lot of shit. I'm just saying, be careful who you talk shit to. Talking shit to Jon Jones. One of the baddest motherfuckers that's ever lived. Well, you know. He's making a lot of money. He's being smart.

The reason why Colby is fighting for the title, the reason why Colby is going to fight Rafael Dos Anjos for the interim title is not just because he's beaten good guys, because he has, he beat Damian Maia, but it's more importantly that he's got, he's going to put asses in the seats. Well, that's part of the fight business. Part of the fight business now.

You got to sell, I mean, yeah, especially nowadays. There's pre and post Conor McGregor. Right. And post Conor McGregor, the fucking game has changed. It's red panties night, baby. Everything is different. It is. And it's just like,

I see people hate on Colby for, you know, did he deserve the shot? All I know is he wins one fight, he's holding the belt. Yeah. I mean, if you look at who he's beaten,

pull up his record. Let me see his record. If you look at who he's beaten in comparison to somebody, like there's some people that have been calling him out that can't get a fight with him, like Kamaru Usman wants to fight him, and that guy's a beast.

Yeah. And then there's some other guys that are really talented but haven't beaten, like, any high-level guys yet. Okay, so he lost to Worley Alves. Yeah. And then look at the guys he's beaten. Brian Barbarina's a good guy. Dong Young Kim is a tough guy.

Stung Gun Kim and Damian Maia. That is not really, I mean, I'm just going to be honest. This is not a resume of someone who you would normally see fighting for the title right now. I think he's fighting for the title based not just on his beat beating Damian Maya who's a really tough guy Mm-hmm, but I think on The fact that he's a controversial very Popular character does he talk so much shit? Yeah, and because he's talked so much shit about Brazilians and he's dominated Maya in Brazil

Yes, he did. I mean it was it was a domination he dominated him and it's a what I think that was a big victory but that was his only big victory over a titled a former title challenger

yeah who's like a top level guy who's also 40 years old right I mean Damian Maya his best days are behind him just yeah

I say this as a huge Damian Maya fan yeah well I you know I look at it as you can't take too much away from Colby because I think of a lot of great fighters. So if you say Nate Diaz, who's been an icon for years,

one of my favorite of all time, he's never fought for a title. Right? Yeah. Yeah, sure. So if Colby got there, however he got there, he wins one more fight, he's holding that belt. I think about fighters who've come up, and maybe they've been quieter. Maybe they haven't sold their fights as well as Colby has.

So they've been grinding it out, beating good guys. Maybe because they've taken that slow road, maybe somebody gets lucky in one of these fights and catches them on the chin. And then they're two rungs back and then they got to grind all the way back up. That's a lot of damage they're taking where Colby didn't have to, I mean, he played the game the right way for today and it's paying off.

Yeah, he only has one loss. Yeah. I mean, I think he's 11-1 now. But, you know, but other people would say, well, look at guys like Anderson Silva, didn't talk any shit, just fucked people up. Yeah. And became one of the greatest of all time because of that.

Yeah, that's true. You could look at it like, do you want to get that shot at the title or do you want to be the greatest that's ever done it? What is the difference? I would rather get the title and then show I'm the greatest. Well, they're not mutually exclusive. No. Right. No. Right? No.

So, I mean, if he wins, then he'll probably get a fight with Woodley, right? Oh, he will definitely get a fight with Woodley if he wins. 100%. Right. So what if that happens? And what if... Woodley showed a video today. I don't even understand how the fuck he did this.

But Tyron Woodley has a video up on instagram with him and uh tiki gosin and uh he's hitting the pads he just had fucking shoulder surgery yeah i mean he had shoulder surgery like watch this i mean he had fucking shoulder surgery like four months ago and he's firing up the pads i don't even know how he did this which shoulder that one that right yes he looks like a freaking beast he is a fucking beast oh he's a legit beast colby says he's a nerd oh get the fuck out of here just kidding just kidding he's talked shit about him for sure he said he would break. He said he would break him. He said he would break him.

But look, Tyron Woodley. God, he looks amazing. He puts people to sleep. It's just insane that that shoulder was operated on. He looks amazing. I want to say like four months ago. Yeah. I don't even understand it. That doesn't even make sense.

That's impressive. Like four months after shoulder surgery, you're supposed to be like doing like those little pink weights that chicks use in Pilates class. You're supposed to be doing this little pink weights that chicks use in Pilates class. You're supposed to be doing this. I don't get it. But Tyron's very smart, and he's very smart with his rehabilitation. He's doing PRP and everything he can, stem cells, everything he can to rejuvenate all that tissue. But that's just insanely impressive. Unless, unless that is an old video that he's fucking banked he's like these bitches

i know what i'm gonna do maybe i'm gonna leave him scared yeah but wonder boy's furious wonder boy's furious that colby's getting that shot yeah this wonder boy's like are you fucking kidding me yeah how am i not fighting for the interim title you know i just he just yeah yeah i mean he just beat jorge masvidal you know he had those two really close fights with woodley you know he mean he's he's beaten you know a fucking who's who yeah well it's i get i because colby has worked out with me you know he's from we're from the same town back there and so people like i can't believe you support whatever like colby coven he's a blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, he's just doing his job.

I don't want to fuck up his game, but that's not how he is in real life. No, he's a great guy. He's like, him and his dad came and lifted with us. They're the nicest people ever. So it's just like. It's a smart move. Come on, guys. It worked.

Yeah. It worked. He did get hit in the head with a boomerang for it, though. Hey, take a little... Take your lumps. Take your lumps. Yeah, it happens. It does happen. All I know is he wins one more fight and he's got the UFC belt.

How amazing is that? The interim belt. Hey, it's a belt. It is a belt. I don't care what it kind of a belt It's a belt Tyron willy calls it the boo-boo belt whatever because he's got an injury and that's the only reason why they still super shiny It's very shiny and it's still gonna be around his waist. Yep. Yeah, he wins true Yeah, so I mean it'll be in his fucking his trophy cabinet Exactly fucking belt. Yeah, so I think I'm pumped. Oh, God, I'm so pumped.

It's going to be. June, you're going to be there. We're going to have some fun. That's going to be that card. Pull up that June UFC card. That is a killer card. There's some real good fights on that card. Is that the card with Derek Lewis and Francis Ngannou?

Oh, God, I don't think so. Is it? I want to say it is. I don't think. I want to say it is. No? Which one's that? Is that Vegas? I want to say it is. I don't think. I want to say it is. No? Which one's that? Is that Vegas?

Whitaker Romero. Ooh. Ooh. God. Oh, Jesus. Make that a little bigger so Daddy can see. Whitaker versus Romero. I love that.

Romero's body. He's a freak of freaks, bro. The freak of freaks. Overeem versus Curtis Blades, too. Dude, CM Punk. Woo. CM freak of freaks. Overeem versus Curtis Blades, too. CM Punk. Woo! CM Punk versus Michael Jackson. Both guys.

Holly's fighting? Both guys are 0-1. Wait. Holly Holmes fighting Megan Anderson. Overeem. Megan Anderson is a fucking killer, bro. Megan Anderson, this is going to be her first fight in the UFC. She's a legit beast and a challenge at 145.

Look at this card. She's legit as fuck. Yeah, Merced Bektik versus Ricardo Lamas. That's fucking awesome. We got Orlovsky. We got legends. Clay Guida versus Bobby Green. Woo! Rashad Evans. Yeah.

There's some good fights. Real good fights. God. Yeah. Oh, this is going to be the greatest. Petavides versus Pettis. God damn. Yeah. This is very good. Yeah. Very good.

I really hope not all these fall through like normal. Well, we have only a month. And then it'll be Holly fighting Romero. That'll be all that's left. Robert Whitaker, Yolo Romero is a fucking banging fight for Chicago. God damn. Dos Anjos versus Covington, though, that's the fight. That's the fight.

Because Dos Anjos at 170 has been a fucking monster. Because he's one of those guys that was cutting so much weight to make 155. He just couldn't take it anymore. He was just beating his body up. And then he moves up to 170, and he looks like a fucking killer again. He looks like a world beater at 170. And he's been trying to fight Woodley,

and he just beat the shit out of Robbie Lawler. Yeah. So that's a big fight for him and a big fight for Colby. Oh, God. For the interim title. Yep. Woo! Can't wait.

Can't wait. Chicago, was it the 8th? 9th. 9th? June 9th. For the interim title. Yep. Woo! Can't wait. Can't wait. Chicago. Was it the 8th? 9th? June 9th. I wish I could go into coma until then. No, you don't. Yes.

You have marathons to run. Oh. Arrows to shoot. That's true. Speaking of which, let's go shoot some arrows. Let's do it. Let's wrap this up. All right, folks.

Michael Chandler will be here on Monday. Yes. I'm going to tell you who I got. I got a lot of fucking people going down. I got a lot of podcasts this week. I love Chandler. Yeah, I love him too. Matt Taibbi will be here this week. My friend Mike

Baker. I got a lot of shit happening. Alright, we'll see you soon, folks. Love ya. Bye.